Yankees close to deal with Johnson?
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 17, 2009 
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So says George King.
Writing for the New York Post, King reports that the Yankees are close enough to a deal with free agent Nick Johnson that the signing could be announced tomorrow.
It would be an interesting move, if only because Johnson would be more or less limited to designated hitter, which is apparently the reason the Yankees were not interested in Hideki Matsui. FoxSports reports that the Giants have offered Johnson between $5.5 million and $6 million, which suggests his contract would be roughly the same as the $6.5 million contract Matsui signed in Los Angeles.
Johnson seems to be a natural fit into the No. 2 hole in the lineup because of his absurd on-base percentage. His power could play well in Yankee Stadium as well, and using him strictly at designated hitter might limit some of his lingering injury concerns. He would be a nice addition, just seems to go against the idea of a designated hitter who adds some lineup flexibility.
Earlier today, Joe Girardi indicated a preference for an “almost full-time” designated hitter, which I suppose could have been setting the stage for Johnson. Also, a one-year deal would make some sense as Brian Cashman said today that next year’s free agent market is “incredibly more impressive than this one.”
Go big in 2008, fill holes in 2009 and go big again in 2010? Maybe.
I am going to miss Godzilla hopefully this move works out. I think they did this for the number 2 hole to fill in Damon’s hitting.
nick got a career 402 obo, like it
What a horrible move, if true.
We get little Jason Giambi with no power. yay.
What the…I’m normally not critical, but this makes no sense to me, considering what happened with Matsui.
Johnson is basically a DH only player, with Tex playing amazing defense at first base. If Johnson only hits, why wouldn’t we have wanted Matsui who only hits?
why didnt they just keep matsui.iif this is accurate it would be about the same deal as matsui is gettin from angels..o well hope it works out..still need another starter..dont wanna see hughes and joba both in rotation
Johnson can do one thing Matsui can’t…play in the field at 1B.
Matsui is incapable of playing the OF w/o placing himself at a serious risk of injury. His knees are THAT fragile.
Johnson is also 4 years younger (if my math is correct) and was also willing to accept a 1 year contract.
Maybe if Matsui waited it out, he would have re-signed with the Yankees. Oh well. We have to move on.
going to love at the fact that the first 4 guys will make the pitcher throw alot of pitches. its going to be a nightmare for them.
Sonic, good point…Johnson can also hit in the # 2 hole.
love love love this move….obp is the most important aspect of the offensive game..
Blake, we’ll see if Holliday wants to be a Yankee. He’ll take the most $$$ that is offered to him – why wouldn’t he? Sometimes a rose is just a rose; let’s not make it any more complicated than it is. There’s no proof that the Yankees are interested at all in Holliday…and we heard the owner speak today.
As to next year, forget Mauer…….I would be very disappointed in Cash if he just sat tight and waited for 2011 when we need some holes to be plugged now (even if we sign NJ, we need a LF – Melky is not the answer).
Phil, thanks! If the Yanks think Montero can catch, then it doesn’t mean squat what scouts think. As someone pointed out earlier, having a player who can hit like Montero apparently can at Catcher is a huge advantage. I doubt he’ll last as from all accounts he’s big and unathletic, but who knows? He could all surprise us.
Really? Johnson over Matsui! I think Cashman needs a drug test. There is no way that Johnson is better then Matsui! King of clutch v.s. King of crutches. Well hopefully Johnson can stay healthy for majority of the season. Only time will tell.
Even with NJ (if that happens), we still need a LF
posted from the last thread:
Blake-
If Cash goes to Hal and says he wants him and things are right he WILL. In my mind the real question is wether Cash wants to go there or not ?
SJ has said it many times, and he knows negotiations probably better than anyone on the board, that if the deal is properly structured it can be fit within the target budget.
Even if it is slightly above ? Do you really think Hal is gonna override Cash’s judgement. I dont. Odds of Holliday as of now. Much higher than 50/50. Much more likely. I haven’t seen anything to convince me otherwise.
Negotiations and media leaks are a controlled process, and filled with manipulations of all sorts. Ever been in the Military ? If you were then I am sure you have heard of disinformation campaigns.
SoS,
“-If Matsui had identical offers on the table from the Yankees and Angels, there’s no way I see him turning the Yankees down. Why would he?
========
He would never get the same offer the Angels gave him. With his daily visit by the doctors to drain his knees. Thers is noway they were going to play left field. Maybe he was tired of getting splinters in his rear and no offer would have made him stay riding the pine.”
-If the Yankees are willing to pay Nick Johnson $6M for 1 year to be the full time DH, WHY wouldn’t they make that offer to Matsui? Because he had to get his knees drained? So what? He was incredibly productive even with getting his knees drained.
Assuming both guys are signing the same exact contract to be full time DH’s, there is NO WAY you take Nick Johnson over Hideki Matsui. If Johnson wasn’t such an injury risk, at least you could use that argument, but the guy just can’t stay healthy.
“Johnson can do one thing Matsui can’t…play in the field at 1B.”
This really doesn’t matter that much. You don’t want to take Tex’s glove off 1B any more than you have to and Swisher can also play there.
from previous thread,
I know basketball has a salary cap and all, but if Holliday wants to play for the Yanks, as some of you assert, then I personally don’t see it as being unfair to expect that he ask them to pay less. That obviously won’t happen, but hey, we can dream right?
========
Mad Prince,
Cant say it didnt almost happen. Beltran was going to take 20 million less than what the Mets final offer was but we turned it down. Maybe Holliday will give us a 12 hour discount as well. If not, we are loaded in the minor leagues with pitchers. Everyone needs pitching. We cant count on us landing Crawford or Mauer next year(people had fitted beltran in pinstripes with bernie being his idle). There is always the option for a trade. Option that wasnt there just a few
This is my personal pitch to let Melky play LF and to spend our remaining money on starting pitching and the bench.
Matsui and Nick get equal pay to DH ?
Something’s not computing.
And boy do the Angel’s sure feast on the crumbs from Cashman’s table.
Betsy, I don’t know whar reports you’ve been reading, but Montero is neck and neck with Romine in terms of defense and has shown some pretty good skills behind the plate.
Everyone that says he’s to big to catch needs to chill. He’s the same size as Mauer, and from all accounts he’s just as athletic.
MTU, I agree with what you’re saying. I don’t see the Yankees not getting involved if the price tag stays where in currently is.
SoS,
I’d buy that.
I personally think we’d be just fine going into 2010 with Melky in LF and Johnson the DH.
Then, if things are as bad as everyone on here lobbying for Holliday seem to think it will be, explore a trade for an LF.
Gotta welcome back OBP Jesus!
Johnson can do one thing Matsui can’t…play in the field at 1B.
Matsui is incapable of playing the OF w/o placing himself at a serious risk of injury. His knees are THAT fragile.
—————————————————–
Good point!!! Next season the Yankees will have to go on the road for some games against NL teams during the interleague period. Instead of having Johnson sit out all of those ghames, he can play one or two games at 1B as Teixeira sits.
Aww Mo – so well deserved:
http://www.sportingnews.com/ml.....ees-closer
On what his presence and disposition do for the Yankees, a team captained by Derek Jeter: I think you’re asking the wrong man the wrong question. I will never talk about myself in terms of what I have done for the team. I don’t even think about it. I just try to help my teammates as much as I can. I don’t care if they don’t give me credit. As long as we win, as long as what I did helped them to be better, that makes me happy.
***that quote above is my favorite – it just epitomizes who he is and what he stands for.
no.27,
Who said that Johnson wont be giving Tex a breather weekly? A much better glove than Swish and keeps the lineup in tact. Matsui was not an OPTION for the outfield. The man wants to play the field. DL in April waiting to happen. Thats not including how bad he is doing it.
This reminds me of all the talk about keeping Giambi as a dh last year. I believe that turned out to be a good move.
blake,
that wasn’t my point. my point is that Matsui COULDN’T play anywhere.
If Swish plays 1B that brings who into RF? Jamie Hoffman??? You’ll have to forgive me, but I’d rather give Tex the day off or DH him and let Johnson play 1B and Swish remain in RF.
Unless this is a preview to a Holliday deal, this signing makes no sense.
SoS,
I’d like to personally request that you just stay in the zone…I agree with EVERYTHING you are writing.
This could be the start of a beautiful friendship.
So with Johnson there would be his ability to play first base. Wow. Teixeira normally gets what, 1 game off a month? So for 6 games that Johnson could cover first, Hideki was put on hold and lost?
Even then, with having back up outfielders the Yankees would be better off putting Swisher at first to cover for Teixeira, so those 6 games might not be even that.
Unless its factoring in DL as well as DH time.
I understand there was concern over Hideki’s knees, but Johnson can’t be giving the Yankees warm fuzzies about keeping the DH on the playing field by any greater amount than Hideki.
This is really odd. Especially when you factor in the 15Million that Hideki brought in to the Yankees, which somehow I tend to doubt that Johnson brings in.
Really? Johnson over Matsui! I think Cashman needs a drug test. There is no way that Johnson is better then Matsui! King of clutch v.s. King of crutches. Well hopefully Johnson can stay healthy for majority of the season. Only time will tell.
——————————————————–
One thing that you’ve to realize is that Matsui left us…we didn’t leave him. If he had been willing to wait the Yankees might have made him an offer. Instead he chose to bail out.
Matsui’s gone…get over it.
SS-Jeter
DH-Johnson
1B-Teixera
3B-Arod
LF-Holliday
CF-Granderson
C -Posada
2B-Cano
RF-Swisher
Man, where do you breath in that lineup? Holliday turns a very good lineup into an unbelievable gauntlet for opposing pitchers.
Holliday will not need to take a discount to play for the Yankees. He can be paid according to “fair-value” which right now is only what the Cards have offered over 5 years.
I believe he prefers to play for the Yankees over the cardinals. His Father is a huge fan. It is much like Tex as far as that goes.
We can afford him if we choose to. Will we choose to ? That’s another question, and the really relevant one. Not if but will we.
Pull the trigger Cash. Do the deal. you’ve got all the leverage.Just make a fair offer and he’s yours.
Teixeira doesn’t WANT nor does he NEED a weekly breather.
chad: off the record, what do you think of the reliability of George King?
“Johnson can do one thing Matsui can’t…play in the field at 1B.
Matsui is incapable of playing the OF w/o placing himself at a serious risk of injury. His knees are THAT fragile.”
How valuable is that when the Yankees have Teixeira playing gold glove defense at 1st base 155 times a year and Nick Swisher on the roster?
“Man, where do you breath in that lineup? Holliday turns a very good lineup into an unbelievable gauntlet for opposing pitchers.”
Or, we sign/trade for a SP and our pitching turns into an “unbelievable gauntlet” for opposing hitters.
I think Cash’s thinking is that when not in the lineup he can help Pavano with phyiscal therapy on his unknowingly broken ribs. Or maybe it was to be the #3 Catcher?
Anyhow, I really don’t understand this move. The one thing, without a doubt that Nick has over Matsui is his OBP. At the same time, Matsui knew how to walk, if given to him. For the same amount of money it REALLY doesn’t make sense.
If this happens, Damon can kiss his stay in New York goodbye. I mean being a Yankee. He would fit the Mets mold perfectly.
On Montero being a catcher. Maybe they have him there because thats where his highest value to teams is. He might be the trading chip for a left fielder or some other need and Romine might be the catcher that stays. Who would have thought last year that AJAX(our future centerfielder)would be traded?
“that wasn’t my point. my point is that Matsui COULDN’T play anywhere.
If Swish plays 1B that brings who into RF? Jamie Hoffman??? You’ll have to forgive me, but I’d rather give Tex the day off or DH him and let Johnson play 1B and Swish remain in RF.”
Its a negligible advantage over Matsui. Matsui is a better hitter.
Holliday and Johnson. Humm. Sounds good ! Or how about Johnson and Holliday. Humm. Sounds good either way you say it.
Yeah, and the Yankees feasted on the Angels, with Abreu doing nothing against us.
Cashman likes Johnson better than Mats for one reason: .426 OBP is freakin insane. actually it’s third in the league in 2009 behind both MVPs.
Matsui and Nick get equal pay to DH ?
Something’s not computing.
And boy do the Angel’s sure feast on the crumbs from Cashman’s table.
——————————————————
Thats OK…the Angels left Mark Teixeira on the table for us…lets call it even.
Well, I finally give up trying to figure out the Yankees’ moves!
NJ signing to put pressure on Damon?
Seems like a long way to go.
But…if Damon goes Nomad (Damon spelled backward), Nick bats 2nd, something Sui couldn’t do.
Johnny comes lately, Mick can hit 5th.
Yankee hot stove on YES Network at 6:30, might have some answers.
Or, we sign/trade for a SP and our pitching turns into an “unbelievable gauntlet” for opposing hitters.
We can’t assume that a trade is out there. Cashman might be working on something like that and if he is then thats fine but on the information that we have right this second, Holliday is the best way to improve the team IMO.
meant Nick, not me.
i can’t believe some of you will completely overlook matsui’s knees(which will NEVER get better and probably never be as under control as last year), yet harp on the freak injuries that nick johnson has sustained.
yes, he’ll obviously keep running into people in the field that he won’t be playing on to break his leg and get hit in the face with ground balls.
All from the on-deck circle.
They still need a LF, so NJ signing doesn’t elminate Damon. The only one who is eliminating Damon is Damon with his demands.
jpb1973 The whole way the Yankees were handling things with Matsui is how it was with Abreu the season before. He wasn’t waiting and then settling for even less from a team when he had an acceptable offer from a usually contending team. The Yankees kept putting out the message there wasn’t going to be a full time DH and they saw him as ONLY a DH.
While Hideki did sign fairly early, the writing was on the wall. He wasn’t wanted by the Yankees.
Does anyone realize that we replaced Matsui in the lineup when we got Granderson? He’s the 5 spot guy. The one hole in the lineup is the 2 spot. Since Damon doesn’t want to talk rationally, they went and supposedly filled that hole.
AJAX never put it all together except for half a season at AA, so yes I wasn’t hugely surprised or disappointed.
Love, love, love this move. The top of this lineup is going to absolutely wear down the opposing pitcher.
Why does everyone assume that we let Matsui go? Maybe he made a premature decision and left Cash in the dust. Maybe we had an offer and it was as much as he wanted. Maybe he felt he would go somewhere that would let him play the field. Now, I am the biggest Matsui advocate, I absolutely love him. But you can’t blame Cash. He knows what he is doing and nobody knows what truly went down. If you’re going to replace him though, it seems like Johnson is the answer. Yes, he has DL problems but no one on the market compares to him and if Damon is gone, I couldn’t ask for a better #2 hitter.
“How valuable is that when the Yankees have Teixeira playing gold glove defense at 1st base 155 times a year and Nick Swisher on the roster?”
I think the factor here is OBP and the number two slot in the lineup. Damon was ideal there and we appear to be moving on from that greedy SOB.
Not sure what you all think, but I personally don’t see Granderson as an ideal 2 hole hitter.
“What a horrible move, if true.
We get little Jason Giambi with no power. yay”
—————————————
you’re an idiot.
jpb1973 December 17th, 2009 at 6:12 pm
One thing that you’ve to realize is that Matsui left us…we didn’t leave him. If he had been willing to wait the Yankees might have made him an offer. Instead he chose to bail out.
Matsui’s gone…get over it.
———————————————–
Exactly. Things happening this week are different than last due to who is available. Matsui is not on the market and the Yankees are not choosing between NJ and ‘zilla. Last week, DH wasn’t a high priority and they were focusing elsewhere. Then all of the pitching moves happened (who knows what level of interaction Cash had in those?), Cameron is off the board and Matsui signed with the Angels. If Matsui still available right now, no one knows A: if he doesn’t indeed get the offer over NJ or B: Matsui would accept it, since it would be well below what he made last year.
We also have no idea what the Angels have/have not ‘guaranteed’ Matsui as far as field time. If they told him that he’d get to play the field 2x a week, well there’s no way the Yankees were going to do that, so the offer from the Yankees wouldn’t matter.
Things happening today do not exist in a vacuum from the other events that have already transpired. Despite what some people here think, the Yankees do not have their pick of FAs and (GASP!) some also may not want to accept the Yankees’ offer.
Jeter
Johnson
Tex
Arod
Holliday
Granderson
Posada
Cano
Swisher
Has a certain ring to it. Wow !
Sorry Chad the only thing that was absurb was this comment:
Johnson seems to be a natural fit into the No. 2 hole in the lineup because of his absurd on-base percentage. His power could play well in Yankee Stadium as well, and using him strictly at designated hitter might limit some of his lingering injury concerns.
abd,
Texierra was banged up plenty of times. I can recall his wrist hurting him to start the season and he couldnt get that breather because Matsui was blocking him at dh. Having Johnson at dh last year would have had Tex the luxury of resting up that much more. Again, last year would have weekend the team. Being that Matsui would have to sit. This year Texierra is fresher for the finish line. If Johnson, doesnt answer the call, then dh can be filled in July(dime a dozen). Who knows if Matsui wouldnt have forced us to look in May anyways?
MATSUI WANTS TO PLAY LEFT FIELD. End of story.
I suppose NJ will be booed if he’s signed because he has the nerve to be replacing Matsui………
Has a certain ring to it. Wow !
——————————————-
Yeah! Ring #28!
I think Damon’s gone, folks. Especially if NJ signs.
Crystal ball says:
Boras is moving Holliday towards us, while nudging Damon elsewhere (Seattle perhaps?). The $13m/per is ridiculous, everyone knows that. When Boras gets a firm offer from someone else for Damon (to protect both his clients’ best interests) Holliday will be here – 5 yrs., $90mil.
As for pitcher – crystal ball is a little cloudier, but looks like Sheets, maybe Duch.
Might have to switch to my “Magic 8 Ball” instead.
I posted this on the other thread regarding Montero.
If Montero can be decent enough behind the plate to be a back up catcher his role could be back up catcher and DH. Couple Montero with a better defensive catcher as the starter, it could be a very good combo.
I suppose NJ will be booed if he’s signed because he has the nerve to be replacing Matsui………
—————————————Betsy
You’re kidding, right?
“Does anyone realize that we replaced Matsui in the lineup when we got Granderson? He’s the 5 spot guy. The one hole in the lineup is the 2 spot. Since Damon doesn’t want to talk rationally, they went and supposedly filled that hole.”
Another beacon of light. Thank you Pokey. You put it a heck of a lot more clearly than I tried to.
blake,
Holliday might answer all your fears about the supposed lack of depth of this offense, but he’s one big $16 million mistake waiting to happen.
Well it sounds like the Yankees wanted a reasonable Damon over Matsui & Damon never blinked. Matsui didn’t wait so he signs with the Angels. As much as I like Matsui, I prefer Damon over Matsui in Yankee Stadium. That said, Nick Johnson will do fine as a DH and backup 1B.
We already have a guy in left field. He’ll be hitting 9th, hitting around .260 with 12-15 homers and playing decent to above average defense.
I hear this year we may have Phil Hughes rules, but no Joba rules.
Yanks missed the bus on FA’s over the last week, now is this the splash to make some news (Nick Johnson).
“Who said that Johnson wont be giving Tex a breather weekly? A much better glove than Swish and keeps the lineup in tact. Matsui was not an OPTION for the outfield. The man wants to play the field. DL in April waiting to happen. Thats not including how bad he is doing it.
This reminds me of all the talk about keeping Giambi as a dh last year. I believe that turned out to be a good move.”
“I’d like to personally request that you just stay in the zone…I agree with EVERYTHING you are writing.
This could be the start of a beautiful friendship.”
-Are you two serious!?
Put Nick Johnson at first base for Teixeira once a week?
Why the HELL would anyone think that’s a good idea? Johnson is an above average glove at first base, but he doesn’t come close to the defense Teixeira flashed all season long.
This is ridiculous.
“You’re kidding, right?”
——————————-
LaTroy Hawkins was booed badly before ever throwing his first pitch as a yankee, for wearing #21. Is there a difference?
Betsy – high on pie
Why is Melky not the answer in left field ? Is Damon that much better?
The Yankees have such a deep lineup that I don’t understand why he would be a issue. You guys do remember that the Yankees had guys like Shane Spencer, Ricky Ledee, and Chad Curtis in the outfield during the 90’s-early 2000’s and the Yankees won multiple titles. I didn’t hear any complaints then.
repost
Boras is moving Holliday towards us, while nudging Damon elsewhere (Seattle perhaps?). The $13m/per is ridiculous, everyone knows that. When Boras gets a firm offer from someone else for Damon (to protect both his clients’ best interests) Holliday will be here – 5 yrs., $90mil.
———————————————————-
Imagine that! Boras highballing his own client to sell the higher commission product. Talk to Arod fast Johnny, you won’t get the break he got, Hank is gone to Siberia.
Pokey December 17th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
We already have a guy in left field. He’ll be hitting 9th, hitting around .260 with 12-15 homers and playing decent to above average defense.
————————-
Agreed. I don’t know why people are so high on getting FAs for any holes. Melky can field, and he can hit (when he’s not being a basket case). He can play LF just fine.
Yeah, he only strikes out less than Giambi and hits closer to .300 than .250 like Giambi.
LaTroy Hawkins was booed badly before ever throwing his first pitch as a yankee, for wearing #21. Is there a difference?
———————————————————–
Latroy had the gall to take Paulies #. Big difference.
We made Sui an offer, he left us.
Stark tweets that the Angels are trying to get Javy Vaszquez.
If we brought Damon back, where would Nick bat?
vinny, speaking of #21, why don’t they just retire it already? What are they waiting for?
No one wore it since O’Neill retired after ’01 except that one time, and we know how that turned out.
Nicky Johnson is HOMEGROWN and he better never get booed.
Why is giving Damon a 2 year, 25 million dollar contract a poisonous idea?
This organization pisses me off sometimes. They willingly dole out nearly 50 million dollars to bring an unproven lefty softtosser over from Japan, and they start pinching pennies when it comes to two outfielders who were instrumental pieces to a championship team and are endeared to fans.
Johnson over Matsui? Is Cashman absolutely delusional? Johnson is probably three times the injury risk Godzilla is, with his iron knees and all. He’d be lucky to stay healthy for 300 at bats especially since he had the good fortune of staying healthy for over 400 last year, and he slugged a cool .405 in the National League. These are the “upgrades” we’re making while tearing apart the core of a championship team? Is this a joke?
Posada and Nick can protect Arod.
Mad prince, if that’s your opinion then that’s fine but at the current price that is floating around about Holliday I think there is a very good chance he outplays that contract.
I think the Yankees can won #28 next year regardless of whether they sign Holliday but do I think he makes them significantly better, yea I do.
no. 27,
I never said anything about Johnson playing at 1B once a week.
But on the days when Tex needs a break, be it at DH or the pine, I’d rather stick Johnson at 1B and keep Swisher in right than putting Swisher at 1B and playing this Jamie Hoffman character. Let’s not get our hopes up on this guy until he actually does something noteworthy.
Paulie was a terrific Yank, but they shouldn’t retire his number.
This reminds me of the time that I asked Santa for a Death Star Battle Station and all I got was clothes.
All we’re buying with Damon is decline.
I am so sick of some people crying about the Yankees not going after some of these free agents. The Yankees have a loaded lineup full of all stars, they spent a lot of money last year, and they won the World Series this year.
Yessss
I love it.
Come on down Nicky.
Now if we could sign Sheets or Dusch and Derosa i consider this an amazing offseason all things considered.
No One is booing Nick Johnson.
“Latroy had the gall to take Paulies #. Big difference”
————————————————
ok. Now that you explained it, it makes sense. NOT
I am not sure how many times this needs to be said, but Montero is more than capable behind the plate. I can see when he first comes up splitting time with Posada or Cervelli or whoever, but the kid has the skills to be a major league catcher. If he didn’t, don’t you guys think with 4 other highly touted catchers in the system and 2 good ones in the bigs that they would have moved him to another position? Most of the reason he’s been DHing in the minors is because he and Romine had been attached at the hip so they needed to give both time behind the plate.
Is Johnson considered a good clubhouse guy?
We aren’t done yet !
Why are we buying decline with Damon? He’s gotten better with age.
ok. Now that you explained it, it makes sense. NOT
————————————–go play with your toys.
“This reminds me of the time that I asked Santa for a Death Star Battle Station and all I got was clothes.”
ouch
clothes for Christmas
Adding NJ is not a bad move really – it’s puzzling after the Matsui situation, but that doesn’t make it dumb. NJ has an absurd ability to get on base, and despite injuries, he’s still much younger and fitter than Matsui. Matsui has degenerative problems in his knees that are only going to get worse. NJ had some broken bones and other injuries that may indicate he’s fragile, but not degenerative.
As a #2 hitter he clogs the bases, so I prefer him as a #5 with Granderson at #2 (despite the strikeouts for CG, at least he doesn’t end up GIDP in those cases, and he protects the leadoff hitter well, unless there’s a lefty on the mound I suppose).
The Good, and the bad with Johnson:
99 BB’ss in 457 AB’s, I’d kiss Cano and Melky is they came close to having that type of eye.
84K’s and 15 DP’s isn’t real good.
Surprising no power.
Lets pass on this guy.
blake,
Don’t misconstrue my comments as saying that Holliday wouldn’t make us better. Of course he would. He just costs too much and I think he represents more of a want than a need.
As Pokey wrote above, we have an LF that is young and inexpensive with a good arm. He will give us everything we need out of a 9 hole hitter.
Remember how vaunted our offense was back in 2004 and 2005 especially? We choked ourselves on our pitcher’s vomit.
Pitching wins. Our offense is just fine and if we do in fact get Johnson, it should be more than enough moving forward into 2010.
Again, if a trade becomes necessary, revisit a new LF or DH in the middle of the season via the trade deadline.
This is a good move.
“vinny, speaking of #21, why don’t they just retire it already? What are they waiting for?”
—————————————-
L: Paul O’Neil was a great Yankee, but you can’t retire them all
SoS, last season Teixeira had problems with his wrist in the beginning of the season. His defense didn’t suffer but his batting was affected by his wrist. He didn’t take time off because of Alex being out at that time, but DHing him wouldn’t have helped him. He had injections and his wrist came around, then his hitting improved all around the time of when Alex came back.
Teixeira was said to only want 1 game a month off in an article I read.
So My brother’s gift to his 3 14 yr olds is going to be a trip to Spring Training – I’m tagging along
“This reminds me of the time that I asked Santa for a Death Star Battle Station and all I got was clothes.”
hahahaha. that is priceless.
G-C
because of mountains of age data and how bad Johnny looked down the stretch.
Nick the Stick can protect A-Rod if Damon comes back. He hits lefties better than righties, has pop, walks, hits doubles, hits for high average.
Jeter
Damon
Teixeira
Rodriguez
Johnson
Posada
Granderson
Swisher
Cano
A guy who hit .325 with 25 HRs is batting 9th, ouch!
G-C
Maybe the Yankees are not spending the money on Matsui and Damon because they are old !
Some people act like Matsui was healthy all year. Well he wasn’t ! The guy was a DH for a year and he still needed to get his knees drained, and it seemed that he was going to fall apart.
Yes, the Yankees make mistakes like all organizations put you should be happy that this organization always puts the best product on the field. If not then go root for the Royals.
No one is saying that Johnsons glove is better than Tex. What im saying is last year the Tex’s replacement was Swish. We can compare Swish at first vs. Johnson. No contest and no contest to the difference in the lineup when Tex had to dh. It was significantly weeker. Tex was banged up and im sure will aslo get nicked up this year. Why is it bad to have a lineup that can actually be constant with first base and dh flip flopping while our all star first baseman can rest his aches?
They wouldnt have signed Johnson ideal for #2 if Damon was still in the picture. imo.
Uncle Ellsworth (Expert textpert choking smokers, don’t you think the joker laughs at you)
December 17th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
So My brother’s gift to his 3 14 yr olds is going to be a trip to Spring Training – I’m tagging along
**************
Ooooh…I’m jealous. You’ll have to give a full report
http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=121588
Via Jorge Arangure (Insider req’d), the Yankees are trying to set up a private visit with Cuban lefty Aroldis Chapman in Miami.
***Also, let’s not get ahead of ourselves – this deal is far from done.
Put Nick Johnson at first base for Teixeira once a week?
Why the HELL would anyone think that’s a good idea? Johnson is an above average glove at first base, but he doesn’t come close to the defense Teixeira flashed all season long.
This is ridiculous.
————————————————————
No 27,
Mark Teixeira can’t play 162 games at first base. He’ll need to rest once in a while. When he does, NJ will be a better replacement than Swisher.
He was great…9 seasons, 4 WS titles, just missed a 5th (friggin’ Luis Gonzalez)
Odd though why no one has worn it for 8 seasons & counting, and seeing the reaction when someone did.
No big deal…just sayin’
If George was still George I think he would’ve sanctioned it.
If Nick Johnson does in fact sign on, it sets the stage for the final spot for position players excluding the infield utility role between Ramiro Pena and Kevin Russo and the last outfield spot between Gardner and Hoffmann.
Money aside, who is the LF that best fits the needs of the team, 5 years of Holliday at the age of 31 or 2 years of Damon at 36 ?
The starting pitcher to be added is for another question.
it will be funny when Matt Holliday’s name doesn’t come up in this entire Hot Stove episode
“”Does anyone realize that we replaced Matsui in the lineup when we got Granderson? He’s the 5 spot guy. The one hole in the lineup is the 2 spot. Since Damon doesn’t want to talk rationally, they went and supposedly filled that hole.”
Another beacon of light. Thank you Pokey. You put it a heck of a lot more clearly than I tried to.”
1, Granderson isn’t good protection for A-Rod unless he can start hitting lefties. Otherwise, A-Rod will never get a pitch to hit late in a game when you can just walk A-Rod and then bring in a lefty to face Granderson.
2, The discussion is about who would you rather have as your DH, Matsui or Johnson. The answer is Matsui everytime.
If you want to talk about who should hit 2nd, it should be Damon. Sign Matsui to the 1 year, $6M deal and then wait Damon out.
Matsui and Damon > Johnson and Holliday when you consider what they are going to cost the Yankees.
Never heard anything bad about NJ, and from what I remember he was well liked the first time around. I remember being crushed when it took him and Juan Rivera to get Javy from Montreal.
Considering how many DPs Johnson hits into, it would benefit him if he hits behind either Damon or Granderson.
Anyone find it strange that the Yankees simply cannot win when Don Mattingly is affiliated with the club?
He is my favorite Yankee bar none, but man, that whole “Curse of Don Mattingly” thing is a compelling superstition.
Mad Prince, it isn’t pitching that wins, its balance between pitching and offense.
A perfect example is the Giants. They had very good pitching last season and couldn’t score runs, how far did they get in the post season? Oh yeah, they didn’t make it to the post season.
Pitching is important, but having a potent offense as demonstrated by the Phillies and the Yankees along with having pitching gives you championships. Heck, even the RS proved that, without having the offense coupled with their pitching in 2004 and 2007 we would still be chanting 1918.
The starting pitcher to be added is for another question.
———————————————————–
Why bring in another starter who will expect to start?
We have Gaudin. Phil and Joba hopefully will succeed.
Mad prince, the way you look at it is one way of thinking and that’s OK. Pitching does win but as well all know the pitching market is thin this year and has gotten even thinner in the last week. The Yankees have zero outfielders close to the big leagues in the minors and they are going to have to address the need at some point. Holliday is there and available and IMO the asking price isn’t nearly as high as it would be in other non-recession years. I would rather them settle the outfield situation with Holliday for several years so that when there is pitching available they can concentrate totally in that. Not saying I’m right its just what I think
L to the 2nd, I don’t get why Damon is gone if NJ is here…..the Yanks still need a LF. Jeremy, I’m aware of that…….but that is not a good reason to not improve your team. Other teams around the Yankees are better and improving. Melky is a nice 4th OF, but that’s it.
Mick, are YOU kidding? The way people are talking about Matsui, like the Yankees betrayed him, and killing Nick……why would I be surprised? Yankee fans have booed Mo and Jeter…..
“This reminds me of the time that I asked Santa for a Death Star Battle Station and all I got was clothes.”
=========
Santa wouldnt happen to be a sox fan would he?
A number of people have commented on how the Yankees should pass on Holliday and save their bullets for next year because next year’s free agent class is so much better than this years.
In other words the best of a “B” class doesn’t make Holliday worth singing because next year’s class is an “A” class.
Here’s the problem with that – that line of thinking is a misstep. In fact, it’s a form of a very well known logical fallacy called an “ecological fallacy.”
A free agent “class” isn’t a homogeneous set. As such, the individuals in that “class” don’t take on any qualities that are inherently derived from the group that they happen to belong to.
Pat Burrell is a free agent next year. Does the fact that his contract happens to expire at the same time as Joe Mauer’s make him an inherently more valuable talent? Of course not.
And on top of that next years free agent “class” isn’t even close to being as attractive as it was a week ago. There were two major reasons why next years free agent class was so potentially special – 1. Joe Maeur. 2. Halladay. Hallday is no longer part of the “class.” As such it’s value has to decrement.
In other words, you can’t draw valid inference about an individual based on characteristics that you ascribe to a class.
Whether or not the yankees should sign Holliday isn’t contingent on what free agent class he happens to fall into. It only depends on their evaluation of his skill sets and talent and how they valuate that talent in term of dollars.
no. 27,
Only Holliday isn’t in the picture and hopefully won’t ever be in the picture, IMO.
You don’t have to bat Granderson 5th…in fact I’d guess they’ll bat Posada 5th. Say what you want to about either of them protecting ARod…ARod will hit the ball, that’s what he does.
I am in no way, shape, or form concerned about ARod’s production moving forward. He’ll play his part, of that I am sure.
If you want to talk about who should hit 2nd, it should be Damon. Sign Matsui to the 1 year, $6M deal and then wait Damon out.
—————————————————-
Sui got more from the Angels and a “promise” to play the OF.
He took the better deal.
N.J came from the Yankee farm system. I’m sure he would fit right in since he knows many of the players.
“Who said that Johnson wont be giving Tex a breather weekly?
Tex, if his feelings on the matter count.
“I think DH is an important tool,” said Rodriguez. “It’s nice to have that like a revolving door. We have some veteran players that would all like to stay in the lineup daily. I’ve talked to Tex about this, and we’d both love to once a month DH and take it from there.”
If Alex can make it through the season with DHing once a month, the only player getting more regular DH time will be Posada.
The gall to take Paulie’s #? Paul O’Neil doesn’t own that number and the Yankees fans’ behavior towards Hawkins was beyond disgusting.
Nick Johnson would be the PERFECT #5 hitter for us.
L to the 2nd, Paulie isn’t really worthy of having the number retired. Having it on the shelf for a while lets the reality of that sink in more, while having the emotion of a generation of fans have more distance and clearer vision of that.
They can put up a plaque for him, but need to put HOF as a requirement for retiring any more numbers, as well as championships or something legendary their stats have in Yankee lore.
The Yankees will be living up to their name with this lineup:
Jeter
Johnson
Tex
Arod
Holliday
Granderson
Posada
Cano
Swisher
How many runs would this lineup be good for ?
Could the pitching stay as it is with this kind of run production potential, and defense ?
You could win with Igawa as a starter (almost).
Move past Damon, if he were to come back,the chemistry of thee team could be different.
Matsui was allowed to walk and sign with the Angels, because the Yankees don’t need a fulltime DH.
Nick Johnson is in talks with the Yankees for the same amount of money as Matsui.
Did Cashman forget what he said about a rotating DH?
The WS MVP didn’t deserve to be offered to stay for a lower dollar amount?
This move by Cashman was below the belt toward Matsui! Now you have an angry Matsui and Abreu on the Angels, “stoopid move Cashman.”
Wow, when I first read the first line of the post, I thought it said, “So says King George.” I thought big Stein himself was making his presence felt, like for old times’ sake.
“Jeter
Damon
Teixeira
Rodriguez
Johnson
Posada
Granderson
Swisher
Cano”
————————————————-
know i will be flamed, however if Nick Johnson were at #2, Curtis Granderson in the #9 hole is intriguing. Basically, a double-leadoff. Opposing pitchers would be working to get to the bottom of the order, only to receive a reward of facing Curtis Granderson
maybe it is my view of Granderson. I see him as a table-setter and triple machine. Not a player who drives in runs
“A guy who hit .325 with 25 HRs is batting 9th, ouch!”
yea, cause you got a guy that’s averaged 11 HRs a year over the last 5 years hitting 5th. Cano isn’t ever going to hit 9th.
If this comes to pass, I’d rather have Granderson’s speed at #2 with Johnson’s OBP at #5. After Alex cleans up the bases, Johnson’s OBP can re-set the table for Posada, Cano and Swisher.
Granderson is more of a pull hitter than Johnson. He’d benefit more, I think, of the first baseman holding Derek on. I also think Granderson would benefit more (in terms of power) by having the protection of Teixeira 3 and Alex 4 than Johnson would.
whew!
For a minute..I thought it would be Randy Johnson.
BTW. Great news on A-Rod’s hip. I really hope he gets his career back on track, or some semblance to what it *was* before last spring.
Great core for next 5 years.
CC
A-Rod
Tex
Granderson
Cano
Another source:
“The #Yankees and Nick Johnson are engaged in serious discussions, but Johnson hasn’t taken a physical exam yet.”
http://twitter.com/KenDavidoff
Mick, are YOU kidding? The way people are talking about Matsui, like the Yankees betrayed him, and killing Nick……why would I be surprised? Yankee fans have booed Mo and Jeter….
—————————————–
I swear Betsy, sometimes it seems you say things just to hear the sound of your own voice or to try to stir contraversy.
Matsui committed Sui-cide, he left us. Sayonara.
I loved what he did, but he went for the money and a promise he would play LF. This is what Joe Average Fan will think.
Good point, CB – and I think it would be foolish to not plug holes just in case players are available next year (as if they definitely will be and as if the Yankees will definitely sign them)
“I remember being crushed when it took him and Juan Rivera to get Javy from Montreal”
————————————————-
yes. To date, my most difficult trade as a yankee fan
This is just a ploy to scare MPB Johnny Damon….. yeah, thats it
CB,
You are neglecting supply and demand, to an extent.
Low supply this offseason. Demand is generally the same.
If the Yanks can “luck out” and get Holliday for what most would consider a discount, that’s fine.
But if the short supply leads to a huge contract, the Yanks would be better served not handcuffing themselves prior to next offseason when they can have their pick.
Nick wouldn’t take a physical till they have a deal in place.
If the Yanks wanted Matsui, they would have brought him back.
No way if they had a want for him that they let him walk for that money. No doubt in my mind they made a decision there. Players, especially like Matsui, don’t just walk away from the Yanks. The Yanks let him go.
I’m am as certain as someone who actually doesn’t know anything about the internal Yankees thinking could be on this.
The gall to take Paulie’s #? Paul O’Neil doesn’t own that number and the Yankees fans’ behavior towards Hawkins was beyond disgusting.
———————————————————-
Doesn’t own that #!!???!!!!!!!!!
utterly ridiculous comment.
like I said…..
Whatever Mick – you disagree so you have to be rude? I’m not getting into it with you or anyone tonight…….
sj needs to chime inhere.
Just out of curiosity, anyone know what Jason Bay is asking for?
“I remember being crushed when it took him and Juan Rivera to get Javy from Montreal”
————————————————-
yes. To date, my most difficult trade as a yankee fan”
Only because it didn’t work out with Javier Vasquez.
I thought that was a GREAT trade at the time, just didn’t shake out as it might have otherwise.
DWI with a child under 15 in the car has become a felony in NY.
No word from Albany on the penalty for choosing a DH while intoxicated.
What about a crazy lineup like:
Jeter
Granderson
Tex
Arod
Cano
Posada
Swisher
Cabrera
Johnson
You can swap 8 and 9, and only keep it this way if Cano can improve his hitting with RISP. Johnson would be the wraparound guy – get on base for the top of the order, but not be relied on for a ton of RBI or speed. It may increase Jeter’s GIDP I suppose.
Just out of curiosity, anyone know what Jason Bay is asking for?
—-
5 years, roughly 16 Million per year.
“Only because it didn’t work out with Javier Vasquez.
I thought that was a GREAT trade at the time, just didn’t shake out as it might have otherwise”
————————————————–
you kinda misunderstood. Didn’t say it was a bad trade
Mick,
You raise a valid point.
It sounds to me like Matsui was unwilling to wait. That’s his decision. Who knows what the Yankees might have done if he was a little more patient.
I too LOVE what he did for the Yankees but sometimes you have to move on. Baseball is business.
I don’t think he committed “SUI-cide”…Anaheim is a good club and if he needed that “you’ll play LF” reassurance with a wink wink to the side then good for him.
Whatever Mick – you disagree so you have to be rude? I’m not getting into it with you or anyone tonight…….
————————————————–
Ok Miss Sensitive….keep making ludicrous statements and run away if someone calls you on it.
One more and that’s it for you, Mick……you say I am ridiculous, yet you said Hawkins had the gall to take Paulies number? Hmm, if that’s not the definition of ridiculous, I don’t know what is. I’m not interested trading insults with you……so if you want to continue this, you’re just wasting your time
“Only Holliday isn’t in the picture and hopefully won’t ever be in the picture, IMO.
You don’t have to bat Granderson 5th…in fact I’d guess they’ll bat Posada 5th. Say what you want to about either of them protecting ARod…ARod will hit the ball, that’s what he does.
I am in no way, shape, or form concerned about ARod’s production moving forward. He’ll play his part, of that I am sure.”
When did I say anything about wanting Holliday to be on the Yankees?
vinny b,
I didn’t think you said that.
I’m more commenting on my take because I too liked Johnson and Rivera a lot and found it hard to see them go.
But at the time it was a great move because Vasquez was NASTY in Montreal.
Sui got more from the Angels and a “promise” to PLAy THE OF.
========
Key word being play the outfield that some people just arent getting.
Matsui”hello Cashman”
Cashman”Yeah What up?”
Matsui”I was thinking. I know i have two shot knees and all. Never been good in the oufield prior. But i want you to promise me i can play the outfield next year if i sign.”
Matsui”Hello? Hello?”
Matsui calls Cash’s phone but it goes straight to voice mail.
Thats pretty much how i interprit it. End of story. Welcome home Johnson!!
“You are neglecting supply and demand, to an extent.”
BD,
I’m not because that’s not the argument that people are putting forward.
They aren’t saying there will be “more” talented players next year so let’s pass this year because there is less “supply” and players will be more expensive.
That’s not the argument.
The argument being made is that next year’s class is “special” ergo Holliday – because he doesn’t belong to a “special” class of free agents isn’t worth signing.
People are essentially saying he’s the “best” of a mediocre bunch. But that’s fallacious. Tim Lincecum is the “best” of a very mediocre 25 man roster. Does that make him any “worse” a pitcher.
And this is a whole other subject – but the number of free agents available doesn’t impact supply and demand dynamics the way we usually think of it.
“5 years, roughly 16 Million per year.”
Thanks! Also, Cash and Steinbrenner mentioned possible trades…if they sign Johnson, I wonder if that means a trade for Bullpen help or for LF.
“Nick Johnson would be the PERFECT #5 hitter for us.”
He would be one of the worst 5 hitters the Yankees have ever had.
CB -
What Holliday being the best of a “b” class does, though is drive up his potential salary. He’s still desirable as a LF, IMO.
But isn’t it true that the players within a class drive the salaries? I mean, aren’t we waiting for certain players to “define” the market? So, if there are higher quality players available in the same class as a Holliday, does that inflate or deflate his potential earnings?
It’s interesting, though.
Baseball is a business. All this talk of “below the belt” and “not showing loyalty” is ridiculous. The only players who worry about feelings getting hurt are people like Bedard who are mentally 5 year olds.
Everything seems to have been above board in all these negotiations. I could understand people getting mad if we had a Furcal situation or something like that, but that ain’t happening. Chill out.
no. 27,
“Matsui and Damon > Johnson and Holliday when you consider what they are going to cost the Yankees.”
I just used this comment as another opportunity to lambast the idea of bringing in Holliday.
No need to get all pissy dude.
I really dont think with this signing the Yankees need anythign else offensive wise.
One more and that’s it for you, Mick……you say I am ridiculous, yet you said Hawkins had the gall to take Paulies number? Hmm, if that’s not the definition of ridiculous, I don’t know what is. I’m not interested trading insults with you……so if you want to continue this, you’re just wasting your time
———————————
9 out of 10 Yankee fans would agree that Hawkins had gall to even ask for Paul’s #. You can go back to ignoring me now, got you last, Betsy.
Boston Dave – XXVII December 17th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
CB,
You are neglecting supply and demand, to an extent.
Low supply this offseason. Demand is generally the same.
____________
This year there are 260 something FA’s. That isn’t a low supply. While there are a number of them who aren’t world beaters, they are cheaper solutions to the holes in the various clubs, and the economy is driving the bus a good deal this year.
I think its why the RS spent so much so far this season. When you have good financial might you take advantage of economic downturns to get better buys.
I have no idea if the Yankees are going after Holliday or not, but there aren’t a lot of teams that are talking about putting up big contracts for him to choose from.
Why worry about the FA class next year with this lineup:
Jeter
Johnson
Tex
Arod
Holliday
Granderson
Posada
Cano
Swisher
This is good for 3 to 5 years. Except for maybe Posada.
Montero/Romine to replace Posada.
Pitching:
If Andy retires and Joba/Hughes step then all we would need would be a #3/#4. If Andy retires that frees up roughtly 12 Mill to sign someone next year. Maybe Andy will want to return and Joba/Hughes have picked it up a notch.
We have Nova and McAllister coming, and Chapman (wink, wink) on the way.
Wanna buy a replacement for Andy this year. Go ahead.
Pull the trigger Cash.
Vinny-b
I have thought several times that Granderson would fit nicely at the bottom if Damon came back. But in lieu of a better number two hitter I would think it’s Grandy.
Sure Nick Johnson gets on base a lot, but he also produces like a maniac with RISP (in various forms). He would slow things down too much, and is probably the most consistent thing for the five hole…
“But at the time it was a great move because Vasquez was NASTY in Montreal”
——————————————————–
mad prince: definitely
IF HEALTHY for the full season I LOVE this signing. IF is the big word there. Hopefully with him only playing DH he can last a full year. No question if healthy he is a better number 2 then Damon.
“Nick Johnson would be the PERFECT #5 hitter for us.”
He would be one of the worst 5 hitters the Yankees have ever had
- No.27.. don’t worry he won’t be batting 5th
“What Holliday being the best of a “b” class does, though is drive up his potential salary. He’s still desirable as a LF, IMO.”
Not exactly, if he was expecting Tex money, and to date the best offer he has is 5/80. Even though looking for Tex money was unrealistic, I think most people would have guessed his final # would be @6/110. Doesn’t look like it will get anywhere near that, but we’ll see.
Tell me how the yankees are a better team now than last year. They have a cf who hits 260. and can’t hit left handers, a right fielder who hits 250 and a 4th outfielder playing left. You can tell me they got younger and granderson is better on defense, but i have heard questions about his defense. Additionally with johnson they will give up homeruns and rbi’s. They left molina go one of the top defensive catchers in the league. They now have an unproven kid that has to catch probably 30 to 40 games or more if posada goes down. who are we signing as a pitcher jason marquis or a couple of guys who have a history of injury that is mind=boggling. One guy we are going to give millions to who didn’t even pitch last year.This off season has disaster written all over it. All we need now is boston to get holliday or agon.
“9 out of 10 Yankee fans would agree that Hawkins had gall to even ask for Paul’s #”
—————————————–
mick: feel free to conduct your little poll on this blog. I bet you won’t. You were probably one of the idiots booing LaTroy that day
one of the most bleeping stupid bleeping signings that bleeping cashman has ever bleeping made. For the same, if not less, money he could have had matsui who was perfect for the role (anyone see the world series)instead be ready for multiple bleeping trips to the bleeping DL list for this bleeping fat loser with a glass body…and at 6-7 million you could also say goodbye to holliday…
cashman that bleeping bleepbleep of a gm..
I wanted Javy, just pained me a little to give up Rivera and the guy who was becoming my 2nd favorite guy aside from Jeter. Pains me even more to see that Javy’s year in pinstripes was a blip on the radar and he went back to being good the moment he left.
Only because it didn’t work out with Javier Vasquez.
=======
To think that the so called EXPERTS said he would turn out to be a better trade and pitcher than Schilling. One and done.
simon: I like the debate. We will see if Nick signs
mick: feel free to conduct your little poll on this blog. I bet you won’t. You were probably one of the idiots booing LaTroy that day
—————————————————–
go talk to betsy.
betsy, is that you? imposter
Rick, completely agreed.
For some reason people have deluded themselves into thinking that what’s gone on here so far has been positive.
I think we’d still comfortably win the division as constructed, but we’re undoubtedly 3-5 wins worse at this point in time because of the moves Cashman has made.
Yeah Rick
Trading for a ALL-STAR Centerfielder. signing the All time post season winner has made this off-season a Disaster
get a grip
Excellent move if this turns out to be true.
rick December 17th, 2009 at 7:00 pm
Tell me how the yankees are a better team now than last year. They have a cf who hits 260. and can’t hit left handers, a right fielder who hits 250 and a 4th outfielder playing left. You can tell me they got younger and granderson is better on defense, but i have heard questions about his defense. Additionally with johnson they will give up homeruns and rbi’s. They left molina go one of the top defensive catchers in the league. They now have an unproven kid that has to catch probably 30 to 40 games or more if posada goes down. who are we signing as a pitcher jason marquis or a couple of guys who have a history of injury that is mind=boggling. One guy we are going to give millions to who didn’t even pitch last year.This off season has disaster written all over it. All we need now is boston to get holliday or agon.
———————————————————
Betsy?
“To think that the so called EXPERTS said he would turn out to be a better trade and pitcher than Schilling. One and done”
——————————————-
will admit. I was in favor of targeting Vasquez (not Schilling). Vasquez’s peripherals in Montreal were filthy
Im astonished at some of these comments seriously.
CB,
I agree with the wait for next year argument being weak. But, the argument that Holliday is the best hitter available in the next few years doesn’t work for me either.
The Yankees don’t need another big time bat this year, and they won’t need one next year either. This argument was fine when Teixeira was a free agent last year because the Yankees lineup was set up to look pretty weak without him. Now they have Teixeira to go with A-Rod, Jeter, Cano, Granderson, Posada, Swisher, and apparently Johnson.
Would Holliday make the team better? Sure. But they don’t need him to win. I say they are better off seeing how their players progress, both in the majors and the minors, before adding another long term contract. Maybe Jeter really slows down next year so the Yankees need to look at free agent SS’s. Maybe Montero falls apart next year and Victor Martinez/Joe Mauer test the free agent market.
There are players available for short term contracts that make more sense than Holliday considering what the Yankees need from the empty positions to win.
The difference from Holliday to Damon is most likely not going to win the Yankees a championship.
Sign Nick Johnson, okay, not a big deal if a one year deal, then trade Swisher for some prospects and sign Dye to a one year deal.
The idea that Paul O’Neill ‘owns’ the #21 is rather silly. This generation’s fans should be ashamed of themselves for booing Hawkins. If the Yanks wanted to retire it, they would have. They wouldn’t have made it available to Ensberg or Hawkins if they didn’t want anyone to wear it.
The previous generation could say that O’Neill ‘took’ the number from Spud Chandler. 10 years, 4 ASG, 5 rings. .717 winning percentage.
If the Yankees are fine giving it out, then the fans shouldn’t boo when someone takes it.
.02.
I loved Matsui as much as anybody but was disappointed he bolted as quickly as he did.
Thought he had more loyalty.
Best of luck to him, but not against us.
Who would the Yankees want, non-pitcher, from next year’s class? I think it is Mauer, Crawford and/or Pujols.
But there is a .001% chance that the Cards don’t lock up Albert.
There is probably 60/40 in favor of the Twins extending Mauer.
I think the Rays have to make a serious effort to extend Crawford. I don’t know that they would be willing to spend the money to keep him, but they have to make a stand somewhere. Speaking as somebody who lives in this community amongst the enemy, they may as well leave town if they let Crawford get away. Because if they let their most popular player walk to the Yankees, they are done in this town.
The Yankees are risking a bad winter next year if they are counting on that FA class, not to mention losing a year of service from a player they could have signed this winter.
“While Hideki did sign fairly early, the writing was on the wall. He wasn’t wanted by the Yankees.”
I think you are exactly right.
—————————————-
Nick Johnson is a DH if signed. Tex doesn’t need many games off at 1st base. And if NJ is not signed, Swisher would fill in at 1st.
————————————
Damon is not going to the Mets. He is a bad outfielder and too
much ground to cover in Citifield.
This is a funny thread.
“What Holliday being the best of a “b” class does, though is drive up his potential salary. ”
Doreen,
It really doesn’t work like that. What supply are we talking about?
For example – forget the supply of the “class.” Let’s be more specific – say the supply of left fielders. Let’s be more specific – the supply of plus left fielders.
The supply of plus left fielders available this year is far higher than next year.
Holliday, Bay and even Damon are available now. Next year – there’s only Crawford.
Let’s look at if from a different perspective – supply of plus position players. Joe Maeur dwarfs anyone in this years class. However, Holliday is better than any other position player available next year. You can argue that Bay is better than anyone other than Mauer also.
People keep attributing characteristics to next year’s free agent class based on the potential presence of Mauer and Halladay.
The pitching next year is deep – the position players are not.
And on the whole, supply and demand with free agency is strange – because as “supply” comes onto the market “demand” also increases because that supply came from teams that will be looking to fill the same position the supply came from.
For example – this year’s “supply” of LF is large – Holliday, Bay, and Damon. However, nearly by definition the demand has to increase if the supply is large – if Holliday, Bay and Damon are available as supply then we know the Cards, Sox and Yankees will be “demanding” left fielders.
““Nick Johnson would be the PERFECT #5 hitter for us.”
He would be one of the worst 5 hitters the Yankees have ever had
- No.27.. don’t worry he won’t be batting 5th”
I know. I don’t know why anyone think he’d make a good 5th hitter on this team.
Paul O’Neill’s No. 21 brings up a question sure to draw some ire.
If his number were to be retired then why not Tino Martinez’s No. 24 ? Both were clutch Yankees during the championship years of 1996-2000 and have the same amount of rings. Tino won Gold Gloves but Paulie was more fiery by bashing water coolers.
If a Yankee had a distinquishable career but not of Hall of Fame quality, his number shouldn’t be issued for the first season after he’s gone and a plaque or plaques should be in Monument Park showing their uniform numbers and the years they played as a special remembrance.
Last year Mike Mussina’s number 35 was not issued out of respect but should be issued this year. Hideki’s number 55 should not be issued in 2010 but could be in 2011.
As of now, available numbers under 60 are 12-17-21-22-26-27-35-38-40-47-48 and assuming Joe Girardi will take No. 28 in 2010.
http://ultimateyankees.com/
(scroll to uniform numbers)
If they sign NJ it will be a clear signal that Damon is no longer being considered and the Yankees have moved on.
I hope it happens because that frees us to make the next move on the chessboard which is Holliday.
Looking for a Checkmate soon !
I honestly think Johnson and Granderson can have the same kinda production as Damon and Matsui. Health is always an issue. But the same could be said for those two guys we let go. Yankees will be fine. Anyone who calls this offseason a disaster needs to get real. Considering it isn’t even over.
Where was Jeter?
I saw CC and Al showed up to Granderson’s press conference, but not Jeter.
“Sign Nick Johnson, okay, not a big deal if a one year deal, then trade Swisher for some prospects and sign Dye to a one year deal.”
So now we are rooting for the Yankees to self-destruct?
O’Neill was loved because he wore his emotions on his sleeve.
It really appeared that he cared about the game and his team.
Corny as that seems, you don’t see it much anymore in pro sports.
It had nothing to do with statistics.
#Yankees and Nick Johnson are wrapping up a one-year deal for about $5.5 million. Pending a physical.
woop. There it is !!!
If this is true it probably means they have a possible deal in mind involving Swisher for a pitcher or a big bat. Johnson can fill the void for backup 1B if Swisher is dealt.
Mark in Tampa,
I personally think the Cardinals are absolute FOOLS for not re-signing Pujols already.
Why on God’s green earth would they offer Holliday a contract w/o locking up Pujols first.
Better hope he doesn’t decide to split.
wow where gonna miss johnny damon in the clubhouse. IDK what Cash is doing but i trust him.
#Yankees and Nick Johnson are wrapping up a one-year deal for about $5.5 million. Pending a physical.
——————————
A good move.
A DH with versatility.
Just what Cash wanted.
Thome, Guerrero and Matsui could not play the field.
“Sign Nick Johnson, okay, not a big deal if a one year deal, then trade Swisher for some prospects and sign Dye to a one year deal.”
There is no reason for us to get rid of Swisher. Especially for someone like Dye. If anything, Gardner and Cabrera will mostly likely be traded before Swish. At least I hope so…I love Swish.
Davidoff says Yanks are wrapping up a 1 year deal worth 5.5, pending a physical.
Cashman goes out and spends almost a half a billion last year, and wouldn’t offer Matsui 6,5 mm..
Ruben Amaro was the mastermind behind getting Halladay.If Casman thought outside the box,with his budget Yankees would have Matsui,and Halladay.
Phil,
You said earlier that Johnson would not take a physical until he signed a deal. Nobody had picked up on that yet.
Do you know this as fact? If so, do you take it as a sign that there is something physically with him that could hold up a deal? Wouldn’t the Yankees take that as a red flag, or a black flag, and back away?
Or did you just mean that it is normal procedure that a player doesn’t take a physical until a tentative agreement is reached?
Mark in Tampa,
I personally think the Cardinals are absolute FOOLS for not re-signing Pujols already.
Why on God’s green earth would they offer Holliday a contract w/o locking up Pujols first.
Better hope he doesn’t decide to split.
———————————————–
They know if we want Holliday, we will outbid them.
Vasquez didn’t work out because he wasn’t given the chance to work out. We traded him way too soon. Same with Contreras.
Most of you guys sound so childish and uninformed bashing the potential of NJ coming back home.
Riddle me this;
If Jeter is on base 41% of the time in front of NJ and NJ is on base 42% of the time in front of Tex and ARod how many crooked # innings you think the Yanks put up next year. Let’s delve a lil further; If then Tex is on base 40% of the time and Arod is on base 41% of the time how many rbi oppurtunities will your 5,6,7 guys have?
vinny b:
totally awesome.
Amaro had to trade Lee to get Halladay plus top prospects. Nothing mastermind to that.
Mark,
No, I said he wouldn’t be taking a physical until a deal was in place. Once a deal is in place, the player will take a physical and if he checks out, he will sign the deal.
mick, there are many fans of the Yankees that didn’t like O’Neill’s temper tantrums. I enjoyed what he did with the team, but couldn’t stand the emotional outbursts. To me there is a time and place for it, not every at bat that didn’t go right.
As time goes on, Paul will be regarded highly, but he isn’t a legendary player. He is with the very good players, but not HOF level that retired numbers should have. There are some that are retired that probably shouldn’t have been. Too late for that now, but going forward it should be that no Yankee number be retired if the player didn’t have HOF and something highly noteworthy in Yankee lore.
“The difference from Holliday to Damon is most likely not going to win the Yankees a championship.”
That’s more than a reasonable position to take.
But I do think if you go the Damon route you must factor in a risk premium in his potential performance.
Personally, I did not like what I saw from Johnny during the second half of the season. His lack of bat speed and his lack of production on the road were concerning.
In many ways I think Damon on a two year deal at $22M would be more of risk than Holliday on a 6 year 110M deal. I would not be surprised if Johnny really fell of a cliff in terms of performance.
I would also agree more with your point if it was a choice between Bay and Damon. I really think signing Bay is a mistake and no way I would want the team to do that.
Finally, while the yankees may not need another “big time bat” they do need another bat in LF. So if its not a free agent it would have to come from a trade – and I don’t see what that trade would be right now.
Holliday would be a great addition.
The issue is, and I think Chad brought this up as well, is that it removes almost any flexibility the Yankees have for the next several years.
They need to resign Jeter and Mariano.
You can’t always plan for “what if’s” but there are quite a few “what if’s” coming up in the next several years.
Having some payroll flexibility isn’t a bad thing to have.
If they can get Holliday for a deal, great. If not, it’s not the worst thing in the world.
I trust Cashman to make wiser signings these days than the Yanks made in seasons past. If they don’t sign a big bat and keep the money for the future, I trust there will be other solid players to be had.
Jeter
Nick Johnson
Teixeria
Arod
Posada
Cano
Swisher
Melky/Hoffmann/Gardner
Granderson
to me, that lineup is complete and is a monster. Health permitting
via davidoff-
deal done pending physical- 5.5 mil…. sweeeeet. let’s go get holliday and duchscherer now
“A good move.
A DH with versatility.”
Veratility for what? 6 games a year at first base? This move, makes no sense to me at all.
He shouldn’t bat second. In a full season, he would ground into more DPs than Jeter. No matter what the Yankees say, that was the impetus behind switching him and Damon last year.
He shouldn’t bat 5th either. The next spot in the lineup after that is going to be 7th or 8th.
For a 7th or 8th place hitter, who gives us the option of a few games at first base, we gave up Matsui, and now we are probably not signing Holliday.
This discussion of O’Neil’s number reminds me of how ridiculous that whole situation was. O’Neil was a very good player, but he was not a legend that deserves his number being retired. I didn’t even notice that Hawkins was wearing ‘Paulie’s number’. If he was wearing #2 or #42, then I would notice.
You only retire numbers of the truly elite legends of the game. Paul O’Neil was very good, but not in that class.
Abdababdaserser December 17th, 2009 at 7:20 pm
mick, there are many fans of the Yankees that didn’t like O’Neill’s temper tantrums.
-Abda———————————————————-
You just had to take the good with the bad with Paullie. Like I said he showed so much emotion and cared when he made out. Refreshing in today’s world, that’s all.
“totally awesome”
—————————–
Bye Bye Johnny. You were great while you were here.
Matt Holliday come on down !
Look Damon and Matsui helped win us a Championship. and we’ll always be thankfull.
But the Yanks are moving foward. If Johnson stays healthy. Thats a pretty darn good lineup !!!
$5.5 is a serious bargain IMO. good move
mick December 17th, 2009 at 7:16 pm
#Yankees and Nick Johnson are wrapping up a one-year deal for about $5.5 million. Pending a physical.
——————————
A good move.
A DH with versatility.
Just what Cash wanted.
Thome, Guerrero and Matsui could not play the field.
__________
What versatility? First base? Swisher can play that, and with Teixeira unless he gets hurt he won’t be playing many games there.
He doesn’t play other positions, and you aren’t taking Teixeira out of the lineup in the NL games to put in Johnson.
6 -10 games in a season for him covering one position isn’t versatile.
I think the problem is that you guys are assuming the Yankees need to fill the DH/LF positions with guys that are going to demand a long term contract.
LF and DH are probably the 2 positions in baseball that have the most talent available on short, low cost deals.
This offseason alone started with Abreu, Matsiu, Damon, Dye, Guerrero, Delgado, Cust, Johnson, Byrd, Church, Hinske, etc. None of those guys have signed or are going to sign contracts that will break any banks. Guys like that will be available every year.
As Posada retires and Jeter slows down, the Yankees will need to sign a guy to a long term contract, but they are better off waiting and getting a guy that will be 29 THEN, than signing a guy thats 29 now and will be close to 35 when Jeter and A-Rod’s production is decreasing.
So Cash saved $1m getting Johnson instead of Matsui. I really don’t get it. Unless Cash thought Matsui’s knees were totally finished.
Phil,
I know how it works, I just read more into the wording of your post than I needed to. I thought Johnson was demanding something different.
regarding nick johnson:
you can’t play the field (or dh) from the DL – which is where he will be most of the season. Does his 5.5 million salary (totally ridiculous) count against the luxury tax if he is on the DL? Also has anyone ever been signed to strictly go on the DL – johnson will be the first.
lastly I would bet my farm ,if i had one, that matsui could actually beat nicky in a 50 yd dash…
this is the “more moves” that steinbrenner and cash were talking about today?? i never thought i’d see the day that the yankees started counting pennies, while still selling yankee stadium grass for hundreds of dollars..sad actually..
Why don’t you guys just accept the fact that after 7yrs Cash and the Yanks were ready to move on from Matsui. Doesn’t diminish what he did here and the ending was perfect but obviously the Yanks were ready to go in another direction and they have. I mean we ushered Bernie Williams to the door kicking and screaming for Damon and he had just finished beating us with our blood rival!
It’s not that Cash has no clue what he’s doing or misread the market they just weren’t that into Sui anymore. Deal with it.
vinny-b (bows to the great Casey Kelly)
December 17th, 2009 at 7:14 pm
#Yankees and Nick Johnson are wrapping up a one-year deal for about $5.5 million. Pending a physical.
woop. There it is !!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
While on the subject of physicals, no news has been forthcoming with the physicals of the supposed Mike Lowell and Max Ramirez Boston and Texas deal. Maybe Senator Mitchell can step in and show his clout.
Jeter will run more, Johnson is a contact hitter.
Name a few DH’s better. Matsui took the better deal.
NJ has little ego. He will sit and not sulk when the DH rotates.
“He shouldn’t bat 5th either. The next spot in the lineup after that is going to be 7th or 8th.”
I agree, I have him batting 9th – Melky would hit ahead of him, so he would be that wrap around guy.
I see vinny has Granderson batting 9th. No way that happens. His speed and power push him up in the lineup. I think he’ll hit more like .270-.280 this year and hit 35HR. If he bats 5th or higher, then he should either get near 100RBI or near 100 runs in this lineup.
If this deal goes thru I don’t see why the Yanks would sign more offense. Don’t “need” Damon or Bay/Holliday IMHO. Play Melk/Gardner in LF can call it a day. They’re all roleplayer types and can play anywhere in the OF (Melk & Gardy).
If Mats divorce went smoothly so should Damon’s. I think Cash now focuses on SP now…
“So Cash saved $1m getting Johnson instead of Matsui. I really don’t get it. Unless Cash thought Matsui’s knees were totally finished.”
Here we go again! My god let it go people. Matsui left. Cash didn’t throw him away. Plus, Cash might know something about his medical records that concerned him. Maybe he was more willing to bargain on Johnson who is younger and cheaper.
mick, I have no beef with Paul O’Neill as a player, but think about how the majority of Yankee fans get on about Youkilis and his tantrums. That is how Paul was viewed.
He was a part of a great time to be a Yankee fan, I appreciated his contribution to the team and championships. He just doesn’t measure up to have his number retired. I can see him getting a plaque, that should be enough for a player of his level.
Johnson may not make too much sense to some (not all)right now but he will when the rest of the plan unfolds in the coming Days.
“You only hear what they want you to hear”.
“If this deal goes thru I don’t see why the Yanks would sign more offense. Don’t “need” Damon or Bay/Holliday IMHO. Play Melk/Gardner in LF can call it a day. They’re all roleplayer types and can play anywhere in the OF (Melk & Gardy).”
This is true, but I honestly think that Cash is gonna trade one of them either for a SP or bullpen arm.
Yah know guys, it is a two way street with signing free agents.
Given the circumstances surrounding Matsui’s signing with the Angels, a very likely scenario is that Matsui was the one who did not want to come back
1. He wanted to play the OF and Cash would not allow that, while the Angels would
2. Players do not like to take pay-cuts to come back to the same team. Bobby Abreu was in the same situation last year and he said there was no way he would come back to the Yankees if they offered 5 million.
Either way, Matsui and Johnson provide nearly the same amount of offensive production and are both injury risks. Matsui has more power, but NJ gets on base more. It is unlikely that Matsui stays healthy for 2 straight seasons with his knees. So even if Matsui was willing to come back at the discounted rate, the Yankees looked at the medicals and thought NJ had a better chance to stay healthy.
“Unless Cash thought Matsui’s knees were totally finished.”
Not sure what Cash thinks, but I think that they are pretty near shot. Getting your knees drained on a regular basis is a clear sign of a major problem that will continue to decline.
vinny-b:
im already on it. lol, i just play the games. not save.
*maybe the Yankees looked at the medicals…
If they sign nobody else for the lineup, I think as of now, Cano starts the season second. Johnson is a disaster waitng to happen batting second. Cano is one of the Yankees best hitters this year is the year to prove he can do it outside of the 7 or 8 spot.
Jeter
Cano
Tex
Arod
Posada or switch with Granderson
Granderson
Swisher
Johnson
Melky
“So Cash saved $1m getting Johnson instead of Matsui. I really don’t get it. Unless Cash thought Matsui’s knees were totally finished.”
Maybe Cashman DOES know that Matsui’s knees are finished. He didnt play a single inning last season in the field and still needed to have his knees drained at least once that we knew of. You could see when Matsui would have to go first-to-third or score from second on a single just how much his knees were compromised.
I will say this about Nick Johnson, he is obviously not the same clutch, power threat that Matsui was, but his injury history has also been wrought with bad luck, not just a body that is continually breaking down … the worst injury he suffered was the collision when he went after that pop-up. So I dont think the Yankees are necessarily getting someone who will be continually tweaking his hamstring or straining his groin.
“im already on it. lol, i just play the games. not save”
——————————————-
Ed: kewl. and congrats, bro
And just to add a bit to my thing about potentially Mats not wanting to come back. Cash probably respects and likes Matsui too much to sell him out and say he did not want to come back, so he just sugarcoated the whole situation.
Abdababdaserser December 17th, 2009 at 7:29 pm
mick, I have no beef with Paul O’Neill as a player, but think about how the majority of Yankee fans get on about Youkilis and his tantrums. That is how Paul was viewed.
He was a part of a great time to be a Yankee fan, I appreciated his contribution to the team and championships. He just doesn’t measure up to have his number retired. I can see him getting a plaque, that should be enough for a player of his level.
-Abda—————————————————–
If You-kill-us played here, he would get the same respect as Paullie. I never said a word about retiring his #. It was just disrespectful of the Yanks to issue his # the year after he retired. Looked bad, that’s all.
This is pathetic.
Destroying the core of a team that just won 103 games and a World Championship, I don’t get it. I didn’t think there was any way Cashman could make a team significantly worse over an offseason with the budget he has, but he just did.
Granderson is barely an upgrade over Cabrera, and now we have a competent hitting CF shifted over to a spot where he is well below league average offensively.
And at DH? We swapped a World Series MVP with 30 HR power for a guy who is two times as likely to miss a crapload of games, and who slugged .405 in the National League last year. Is this a joke?
And for the LAST TIME, THERE IS NOT A SINGLE STARTING PITCHER ON THE MARKET WHO IS AN UPGRADE OVER HUGHES OR CHAMBERLAIN.
Johnson is a disaster batting second? Are you nuts?
Abdababdaserser
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You can’t compare Swisher’s def at 1st to NJ who has good-very good defense. This move gives the Yankees a bit more flexibility then 09 with the DH role.
I didnt realize that Damon and Matsui were the core of the team? The reason why we won is because of the starting pitching. Granted Matsui did have some timely hits but lets not kid ourselves if it wasnt for the starting pitching we would not have won. The offense pretty much laid an egg this playoffs as well just like the previouse seasons the only difference this year was that the pitching held it together to give the offense numerous chances.
“And at DH? We swapped a World Series MVP with 30 HR power for a guy who is two times as likely to miss a crapload of games, and who slugged .405 in the National League last year. Is this a joke?”
I bet money that Matsui doesn’t replicate the year he had. Sometimes it’s better to leave on a high note.
OBP Jesus is gonna bat second.
IMO people should be happy with what cash has done. He is doing exactly what he said he wanted to do. Faster, younger, and more athletic. Are Matsui or Damon all of those things ?
Why be surprised. It’s time for another Yankee dynasty.
Cardinals have tried to resign Pujols, according to my Cardinal friends. Pujols won’t sign,he wants to wait,hence the mega offer to Holliday.
They want to show him they are serious about winning a WS. I thinks he test the market.
The point needs to be made is that Carl Crawford is a FA next year. C$ and the Yankees Front Office have had a man-crush on him for a LONG time. If they sign Nick Johnson, I see Crawford in LF for 2011.
Hopefully, we didn’t miss the boat on Matt Holliday.
Oh, and sign Ben Sheets already.
“Given the circumstances surrounding Matsui’s signing with the Angels, a very likely scenario is that Matsui was the one who did not want to come back”
I am at peace with Matsui leaving, but it is apparent that the Yankees didn’t want him back. To expect him to wait for the Yankees when they, from all appearances, did not engage him in any way, is ridiculous. Yes, Matsui made the choice to sign with LA, but it wasn’t like he broke off talks with NY to do so.
If Cashman made a judgement that Matsui was a DL waiting to happen, that is fine. It is also independent of my feelings on an awful signing today.
You are replacing Damon with Granderson. IMO is a steal of a trade and is more of a weapon defensively and offensively then Damon.
You are replacing Matsui with Nick Johnson, I love Matsui and he was a great Yankee had a great bat but it was time to move on simple as that.
Johnson will do very well in the second hole as long as he stays Healthy. that is a big IF.
I bet money that Matsui doesn’t replicate the year he had. Sometimes it’s better to leave on a high note.
————————————————-
Dee
Even George Costanza knew the high note theory.
“Granderson is barely an upgrade over Cabrera”
HAHAHAHAHA. Put down the crack pipe G-C and slowly back away…
now that Damon has lost his position in the lineup – wonder if he sees the handwriting on the wall?
Is Damon out of play with NJ because now he can’t be a part time DH? If so, is it a given that Melky is our LF?
Wow, that’s a pretty damn good deal for Nick…1 year? Perfect…….awww, I loved Nick the Stick.
I guess I have to post this bigger to get the point across and stop the Cashman bashing:
THERE IS A VERY GOOD CHANCE THAT MATSUI, YES MATSUI, WAS THE ONE WHO DID NOT WANT TO COME BACK.
dee
This is true, but I honestly think that Cash is gonna trade one of them either for a SP or bullpen arm.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Possibly, I think Melk might net then more. I rather deal Gardy because Melk is more rounded out skills wise. But you’re not getting much but a BP arm that probably won’t amount to much.
MTU,
I agree with 100% I am extremely satisfied with Cash and the way he has run this franchise over the last few years. Any fan with some intelligence would be foolish to bad mouth Cashman.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see Damon sign with the Mariners now. Something like 2 years/$12m. Once again Boras was asking for a contract for him that he was never going to get.
Johnson will do very well in the second hole as long as he stays Healthy. that is a big IF.
——————————————-
When was the last time NJ got hurt exclusively as a DH?
Cmon people, unless he hurts himself in the dugout slipping on a seed, he will be fine.
Dropping Matsui and picking up Johnson – ??????????
Chamberlain and Hughes have proven that they can be excellent relief pitchers. They’ve proven, so far, that they’re crappy starters. Maybe Hughes will bring his 95-96 mph fastball into the starting rotation instead of the very hittable 91-92. I wouldn’t count on that happening – that would be management (Cashman’s legacy). The Yankees have managed to transform Chamberlain from the next Gossage (as a reliever) to the next Ponson (as a starter). Once again, it would be bad management to rely on this mess of a starter for an organization that want to contend (like the Yankees). You can rely on these two, but you wouldn’t be doing your job as Yankees GM if you did.
This does not make sense, and I’ll explain with one reason.
IF the reason why we did not want Matsui, was because of Interleague and if we make the World Series, to play 3 or 4 games in an NL ballpark, not having Matsui could hurt, then Johnson makes even less sense…
Matsui could potentially play LF for a total of 15 games a season (playoffs included), because he could easily replace Melky in the lineup or possibly Swish, with Melky taking RF.
Nick Johnson cannot play any position as far as I know besides 1B.
So, essentially, we lose our Number 2 hitter in the World Series in the NL ballpark, if we make it there.
Cant compare NJ’s and Mats roles to this team. Mats was a power hitter, etc. and Nick is an OBP machine, and line drive type hitter with less power.
They are both DH’s but they are designed to fill different purposes. Nick is designed to absorb the loss of Damon in the 2 hole not make up for Mats power and protection. That is coming in another move IMO.
Dont compare apples to oranges just because they both happen to have DH next to their name.
G-C – you need to get a grip, pal … Granderson is not an upgrade over Melky? Are you serious? So the fact that he hit 30 home runs while leading off means nothing because he .249? Did you see his stat line just 2 years ago?
What do you mean by destroying the “core” of the WS team? Matsui and Damon were the “core”? So what were Jeter, Arod, Tex, CC, Mo, Posada, etc. … roll players?
And you forgot to mention that Cashman resigned Andy Pettitte who won 4 post season games, including the Game 6 clincher in WS on short rest.
And how do you know who is or who isnt available to add to the rotation?
Once again, please chill my friend and retain a monicum of objectivity.
Nick Johnson: take the money and walk?
Confidential to S.o.S.: I’m not going to spill the L O S T quasi-spoiler I was alluding to in the previous thread. Sorry.
Don’t sweat last season’s time travel stuff. It was just a plot device to annoy you.
I have it on suspect authority that season six is going to be great.
Remember back in the first season when Boone died the same time baby Aaron was born?
Boone…. Aaron… Boone… Aaron…
Aaron Boone.
That’s some wild, wacky stuff.
s Damon out of play with NJ because now he can’t be a part time DH? If so, is it a given that Melky is our LF?
Wow, that’s a pretty damn good deal for Nick…1 year? Perfect…….awww, I loved Nick the Stick.
———————————————-
Betsy, can you say Matt Holliday?
mick, there are a number of Yankee fans who think Paulie’s number should be retired. It shouldn’t be, and I just don’t see any reason for keeping his number from being used. He wasn’t the type of player to have it retired, and while it could be kept unavailable for a bit, if there is no intention of retiring it and an incoming player wants it, I don’t see a problem with it.
Nick Johnson gets on base 40% of the time. that’s more RBIs for Arod and Tex. Yes, Damon is a better fit for that lineup, but a .400 OBP is not bad. NJ is warming the lineup spot for Carl Crawford in 2011, moving Posada to DH and Montero behind the dish.
and for all the idiots on here saying that Johnson has no power he actually has more power than Damon.
his last season with the Yanks was ’03 and heres his line;
324abs- about half a season
60runs scored
19 doubles
14 homers
70 walks
.284avg/.422obp/.894obps
his best season health wise was 2006 with the Nats one of the biggest ballparks in the league here’s his line;
500 abs
100 runs
46 doubles
23 homers
110 walks
.290avg/.428obp/.520slg/.948obps
So again if he’s healthy and maybe can avoid the “freak” injury this 1 year that we have him why wouldn’t we expect that two years removed from the wrist surgery he had a line of .290ish/.420ish 20-25 hrs/90runs and 90rbis with 500 abs and 100+ walks.
When he went to fla last year he had 36 walks in 104 abs hitting in front of HanRam with a .477 obp! What would our offense look like if he comes close to those #’s in front of Tex and ARod.
again sometimes it helps if you actually know what you’re talking about before you talk.
The fact that he’s one of our own coming back home is the cherry on top that makes a Yank fan feel all warm inside.
I just want to say again. I LOVE this move.
Great stuff.
Bye bye Damon, and take your unreasonable contract demands with you. You said it yourself…don’t call if we don’t offer 13 million and well…we didn’t.
Now lets land Derosa and a starter.
I really don’t trust Holliday in the AL. He couldn’t hit in the AL west…i don’t think he’ll hit in the AL west. Let him dominate AAAA. The only way this guy has hit so far is in Coors field or with the best hitter in the game batting behind him.
“Johnson is a disaster batting second? Are you nuts?”
Yes, I’m nuts. I guess because this guy is going to negate a ton of big innings by grounding into DPs regularly. His OBP will come in real handy when it takes 2 or 3 hits to get him around the bases. How many Arod singles with 2 out RISP are going to turn into the third out because this guy got thrown out at home?
This guy is a bottom of the order hitter for a good lineup.
“You can’t compare Swisher’s def at 1st to NJ who has good-very good defense. This move gives the Yankees a bit more flexibility then 09 with the DH role.”
My opinion is NJ will not play 1st base more than 6 games. That is very minimal flexibility.
This thread is still funny. So is the notion that we’ll go into the season with Melky in left.
Johnson is not better than Matsui. Johnson is also more injury prone and is slower (15 GIDPs last year).
This was an awful signing. The guy is made of glass, has no power anymore, and prevents us from signing Holliday or Damon.
So we have replaced Matsui and Damon with a guy who can’t hit lefties and a guy who can’t stay on the field.
We are not a better team now than we were last week.
“Possibly, I think Melk might net then more. I rather deal Gardy because Melk is more rounded out skills wise. But you’re not getting much but a BP arm that probably won’t amount to much.”
I agree. I just think that the whole point of the Yankees getting Hoffmann is because they plan on getting rid of one of the them for whatever reason. Maybe include them in a package or something.
The idea that Cashman didn’t “throw Matsui away, Matsui left,” is hard for me to follow.
Matsui was never offered a contract. That’s like saying, well, I didn’t kick you out, I just changed the locks and stopped answering the door.
And the reason Cashman gave was because he wanted more flexibility. Then, he signs a guy to play DH who’s ONLY other position is filled by Mark Teixeira, the best defensive player on the Yankees.
This has nothing to do with sentimentality. Matsui is a much better hitter than Johnson and is being paid $500K more than him this year.
The excuse that Nick Johnson plays better defense than the backup 1st baseman is a joke. So the Yankees have better defense at 1st base for the 6 games Teixiera doesn’t play there this year. That means NOTHING.
There is no way to spin this discussion so that it makes sense to sign Nick Johnson to a deal for 500K less than Matsui.
cashmoney is getting it done this off-season
Johnny Damon is great but old. Cashman is a man with a plan. He is executing his plan. Not your plan, not my plan, his plan and Hal backs him on it.
It is not wrong just because you do not understand it.
Great signing getting Nick Johnson. Johnson is a very good hitter he can be the number 2 hitter if Damon doesnt sign. And you can bat Granderson 5th or 6th.
It doesn’t look like Damon will be resigned. I am with fine with Melky as the leftfielder and Gardner as the 4th outfielder. A late inning defensive outfield with Granderson in center, Gardner in left and Melky in right would be one of the best defensive outfields in baseball.
I guess it’s somewhat fair to recall that they also DID NOT win with Matsui and Damon in the years prior to 2009.
So, while I would have liked both of them back, I’m also okay without both of them.
It just so happened that in 2009, Matsui and Damon contributed greatly to the WS victory.
Also,
I will always support moves that increases the amount of Nicks on the Yankees.
“9 out of 10 Yankee fans would agree that Hawkins had gall to even ask for Paul’s #”
I’m the 1 then. O’Neill acted like a spoiled child. Instead of diffusing the situation, he poured gasoline on the fire.
I trust Cashman’s judgment on this. In 2008, Giambi had 30 HRs and 96 RBI, and many here would have been clamoring to keep him as a DH if Matsui wasn’t already tied to the postion.
Giambi left for the AL West and ended up hitting .200 with little power. I don’t think Matsui will fall off that much, and he might end up having another great season, but the point is, it’s better to let go too early than too late. There’s absolutely no guarentee Matsui will be the same force next season as he was in ’09.
Besides, just imagine having two possible .400 OBP hitters in front of Tex and Arod. It doesn’t matter who our #5 hitter is. Pitchers can’t walk Arod if the bases are always full in front of him…
Can Alfonso Soriano be next??????????
hey matt, isn’t #6 also available
btw, having seen granderson talk at length for the first time, I’M VERY IMPRESSED! it seems likely that he will quickly become a go to guy in post game interviews.
Its possible that Matsui didn’t want to come back, but it didn’t sound that way. It could be that it was a mutual parting, both parties feeling that it was time to move on.
Still, Cashman saying rotating DH and seeing Matsui as only a DH certainly sounds more like Cashman wasn’t interested in bringing back Matsui. If I were Matsui and heard what Cash said, I would be looking to take a deal that fit rather than wait and hope for a return.
A team is composed of parts. The parts can change but the machine can still run efficiently. For what Cash is trying to accomplish with his new Machine players like granderson,NJ, and Holliday are going to make it work perfectly together. No devaluation of the former team mates that made up previous machines. This is the NEW machine, and it is going to be a MONSTER (when they get Holliday).
LGY: Well dont make sense now. You should just call Cashman a moron like the other armchair gms!
ko
December 17th, 2009 at 7:40 pm
Dropping Matsui and picking up Johnson – ??????????
Chamberlain and Hughes have proven that they can be excellent relief pitchers. They’ve proven, so far, that they’re crappy starters. Maybe Hughes will bring his 95-96 mph fastball into the starting rotation instead of the very hittable 91-92. I wouldn’t count on that happening – that would be management (Cashman’s legacy). The Yankees have managed to transform Chamberlain from the next Gossage (as a reliever) to the next Ponson (as a starter). Once again, it would be bad management to rely on this mess of a starter for an organization that want to contend (like the Yankees). You can rely on these two, but you wouldn’t be doing your job as Yankees GM if you did.
********************************************************
this board would be so much better without senseless baseless “comments” and opinions like this that have no basis in facts or understanding of the game like this. As an exercise in education go do some research and compare Roy Halladays first 43 starts in his career to Joba’s. Look at Halladays #’s in his age 22,23,24 seasons to Joba’s as a starter and you will see that Joba’s are far superior.
If we go into the season with Melky in left, we are not a better offense this year than we were last year.
This move only makes sense if we sign a legit LF’er.
If there was any indication Damon wanted more than two years this is the right move. The only issue I have no is they are heavily left handed. But Johnson hits lefties well and has that natural hitters stroke. Given he can play first base once in a while which is all that’s required with Tex. Can the Yankees now potetially move Nick Swisher???? If they move Swisher for prospects (and I like Nick a lot) would that free up room for a one year free agent like Dye who has an arm in RF. Bare with me. Yankees free up some more money with Swisher. That leaves them a ton and flexability in the OF the year Crawford, Werth, Mauer and those guys are free agents. Lineup could be:
Jeter
Nick Johnson
Tex
Arod
Posada
Dye
Granderson
Cano
Melky
Is that not a pretty imposing lineup?
It also means Dye & Johnson are not long term free agents.
Yankees could look at Crawford the following year.
And the moves would allow enough cap space for a nice free agent pitcher addition like Sheets this year.
The idea that Cashman didn’t “throw Matsui away, Matsui left,” is hard for me to follow.
Matsui was never offered a contract. That’s like saying, well, I didn’t kick you out, I just changed the locks and stopped answering the door.
And the reason Cashman gave was because he wanted more flexibility. Then, he signs a guy to play DH who’s ONLY other position is filled by Mark Teixeira, the best defensive player on the Yankees.
This has nothing to do with sentimentality. Matsui is a much better hitter than Johnson and is being paid $500K more than him this year.
The excuse that Nick Johnson plays better defense than the backup 1st baseman is a joke. So the Yankees have better defense at 1st base for the 6 games Teixiera doesn’t play there this year. That means NOTHING.
There is no way to spin this discussion so that it makes sense to sign Nick Johnson to a deal for 500K less than Matsui.
—–
I’ll spin it for you.
Cash didn’t want Matsui and his glass knees.
“Johnson is a disaster batting second? Are you nuts?”
Yes, I’m nuts. I guess because this guy is going to negate a ton of big innings by grounding into DPs regularly. His OBP will come in real handy when it takes 2 or 3 hits to get him around the bases. How many Arod singles with 2 out RISP are going to turn into the third out because this guy got thrown out at home?
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If you are relying on singles from your from your 3-5 hitters then how about the doubles and HRs? Nick can also protect Alex if it doesnt work out at 2nd. Dont sweat the small stuff, I know you are a knowledgeable fan.
Love the Nick Johnson move, welcome back!
“Can Alfonso Soriano be next??????????”
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peanut vendor?
Damon and Matsui represent 50+ runs,that’s what has to be replaced.
Mark in Tampa raises some legitimate concerns.
I like NJ, but I can see his lack of speed being a major difference between he and JD.
So we basically signed Daniel Murphy of the Mets (average, OBP, and no power) to be our DH and replace the WS MVP.
Great job. I’m sure Beckett-Lester-Lackey are quaking in their boots. Our competition signs Lackey and we sign…. Nick Johnson?
“Can Alfonso Soriano be next??????????”
Boomerang Yankees!
Mick, I can say it – the ? is if Hal can.
Seriously, I loved Matsui but wow…….If he had been a FA from another team and the Yankees signed him, would people be so thrilled? His knees are in shreds – he had to have his knee drained 2 times this year and he looked awful for weeks before interleague forced him to reset. I don’t blame him at all for doing what he needed to do, but if he wanted to play the field, then I’m sorry – he’s nut. No matter what he says or signed on for, once the Angels see how badly he looks after playing even just a few innings out there, they will sit him and he will be pure DH.
This was not a blunder – Cash knew exactly what he was doing. You don’t think he thought long and hard before executing his plan? You think he doesn’t realize what a good and clutch hitter he is? You bet he does…….but Cash weighed the pros and cons and determined that he was better off prioritizing LF first. Matsui couldn’t wait – that’s fine. This is not armageddon – Matsui is a terrific player, but he’s NOT the NY Yankees.
I am going to go on record and say that I would rather have NJ than Matsui in 2010.
Matsui has not stayed healthy for 2 straight seasons since 2004-2005. The chances of him staying healthy next season is not good at all considering his knees are about ready to explode just from running to 1st base.
A full season of NJ=A full season of Matsui, and having NJ in front of Tex and Arod is going to be insane.
Also, did someone really just say a .400 OBP is “not bad”
hey i like bringing back all these old yankees …johnson for 5.5 million that is cheap….i just heard that bernie williams will come back for 2.5m. he will even play the guitar at the seventh inning stretch.
This idea may be ridiculed, and I am sure it is not on anyone’s radar, but since we aren’t getting Damon back, I would like to see the Yankees offer the same 2 year $20M package to Adrian Beltre. Borass is looking for 4 years at $40M, so some negotiating with options might be needed.
Beltre hit .286/.330/.486 away from Safeco over the last three seasons, and would probably hit 30 Homers in YS. He definitely would offer protection to ARod in the #5 hole.
This would work IF Arod would accept a move to LF, and let Beltre–a far superior third basemen–take over 3B. Beltre would save numerous runs versus ARod–who seems to have slipped defensively the last year or so.
Given that it is an even year, ARod would be due for big numbers in 2010, and between Grandy, Beltre, and Johnson, we would improve upon Damon, Matsui, and Melky production–both offensively and defensively.
no thank you on Jermaine Dye
Johnson for just 1mill less than the World Series MVP i repeat. This signing makes no sense, its a horrible move, i actually feel physically sick….we’re letting go of our key championship players for a guy who go thrown out at third base in the 2003 florida loss in the world seires which was one of the keys to us losing that series. I’ll never forgive Johnson for that, nor will i ever forgive him for replacing Damon and Matsui. I’m deeply upset at Brian Cashman.
It is also fair to continue to point out that while Cashman quite very possibly did not want Matsui back as his first choice, Matsui wanted some kind of “promise” that he could play LF in 2010, and the Yankees were not about to do that. It was a matter of importance to Matsui – he had said he saw himself as an outfielder, not strictly a DH.
It was just no longer a good match, and time to move on.
So how does signing a piece of glass built like Babe Ruth cerca 1935 further Cashman’s goal of getting younger and more athletic? Can someone riddle me that?
Plain and simple, this is a stupid move. There is no rational way to look at swapping Nick Johnson, as much as I love him, for Hideki Matsui, and consider it a “win.” And regardless of which way you look at it, Curtis Granderson is not the hitter Johnny Damon is. He has eight zillion more holes in his swing and the triples that completely inflated his value in 2007-2008 will be nonexistent anywhere but Comerica. Oh, and did we forget to include that he’s a PLATOON PLAYER?
I’m sorry, I’m all for Cash’s plan of getting younger and more athletic, but getting younger and worse (and not necessarily more athletic) isn’t the way to work things. Resigning Pettitte? My grandmother could have done that with her eyes closed, let’s not act like that was some kind of accomplishment for the GM.
“This move only makes sense if we sign a legit LF’er”
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who knows, Hoffmann may prove a legit LF’er. Let him receive a chance, with Melky and Gardner in tow.
at the very least, NYY has enuf offense to get by until the all-star break. What is wrong with that??
So we basically signed Daniel Murphy of the Mets (average, OBP, and no power) to be our DH and replace the WS MVP.
Great job. I’m sure Beckett-Lester-Lackey are quaking in their boots. Our competition signs Lackey and we sign…. Nick Johnson?
—–
And you know what…i’m sure Arod and co. aren’t shaking in their boots at John Lackey
And CC, AJ and Co aren’t shaking in their boots about Mike Cameron.
So Cashman lets glass knees walk (Matsui),and signs Pavano jr!!
Does everyone forget Matsui had to have his knees drained how many times last year (both might I add are problems) just at the DH spot. Does anyone actually think he could have remained healthy for a full year next year? And everytime Posada needs a break they have to be concerned with the health on both. I love Matsui, but we were very lucky to have him healthy enough to play for a full year last year.
In no universe is NJ better than Matsui.
And Matsui is a #5 hitter and protects A-Rod.
edit: all-star break (aka Trade Deadline)
NJ doesn’t have the speed of your ‘normal’ 2-hole and he hits into his fair share of DP, but until last year, The Captain was in the 2 hole I think we all know his history with DPs.
Ideally, you’d rather have a speedier guy in the 2 hole, but NJ will see pitches and make a guy work, giving DJ better opps to run (hopefully). I’ll take that. NJ hits for average and hits to all fields. He has a better glove that Swish @ 1B for the days that Tex doesn’t play there.
The idea that they chose NJ over Matsui is not correct. I will continue to believe that if Matsui was still on the market right now, they would be talking to him first. However, that was not their priority at that time. They were talking to Lackey and in on Halladay (at what depth, who knows). Matsui decided not to wait and took a deal, as did Cameron. Damon wants too much, so it’s on to NJ for a reasonable price.
These moves are not made in a vacuum. All previous moves by other teams dictate what happens today.
Johnson is going to clog the bases at the top of the order. He runs like Matsui and will take 3 hits to get him from 1st to home. He is not a #2 hitter. Damon can go 1st to 3rd, 2nd to home. Johnson is a station to station runner.
Just like the Yankees of the Old Days— old, slow OBP hitters. No speed, no ability to run the bases.
Damon and Matsui were the way to go. Not “Nick the Stiff”. People hated how Giambi clogged the bases, but NJ does just that. Tex and A-Rod better hit HRs to get him home from 1st or 2nd.
Johnson for just 1mill less than the World Series MVP i repeat. This signing makes no sense, its a horrible move, i actually feel physically sick….we’re letting go of our key championship players for a guy who go thrown out at third base in the 2003 florida loss in the world seires which was one of the keys to us losing that series. I’ll never forgive Johnson for that, nor will i ever forgive him for replacing Damon and Matsui. I’m deeply upset at Brian Cashman.
—–
You can’t place a whole lot of value on World Series MVP. It is such a small sample size. Major League execs know this. Irrational fans don’t.
WS MVP is basically a 7 game max crap shoot.
Same with your little antecdote about the 2003 series. 1 play, 7 years ago is clouding your judgement.
You guys that think that Nick Johnson has no power have never I guess actually seen him play and must not even have Computers to do a lil research….if he’s healthy and gets 500 abs this year he will hit 20-25homers.
again his last healthy season in DC one of the biggest ballparks in the game he hit 23 hrs and 46 2bs for an obps of .950
Betsy
Methinks Boras is making the case for a big payday for himself and Holliday.
So what if Johnny is the sacrificial lamb.
Keep asking for 13 m per and 4 years…Cash will laugh you to the NL for whatever and 09 Abreu money.
Just like the last year of the stadium set up last years moves, Cashman is trying to win now and set up moves for next year and going forward. As they have already said I would much rather have Crawford or Mauer or someone off the charts like that then paying Damon three years or getting stuck with Holliday for 6 or Bay. Wouldn’t you?
mick,
If they get Holliday, this signing is no sweat to me. I just think that this keeps Holliday from happening, if the budget constraints have any validity. Also, 3rd and 4th hitters will hit 2bs and HRs, but to have huge years, they need the RBIs on 2 out singles also.
My thinking is that if they signed Holliday, they could use Miranda or anybody at DH. But signing a player for 5.5M doesn’t make sense if they are trying to save money.
Maybe I am wrong and they never had any real interest Holliday. I guess the next two weeks will tell the story.
Damon and Matsui were the way to go. Not “Nick the Stiff”. People hated how Giambi clogged the bases, but NJ does just that. Tex and A-Rod better hit HRs to get him home from 1st or 2nd.
—-
Good thing they combine for 60+
I wouldn’t worry about those 2 and home runs. OR XBH
Phranchise, do you realize that the guy we signed to replace Mr. Glass Knees is pretty much Mr. Glass Body? He broke his FEMUR on a pop-up collision in the field, something you’d be hard pressed to do by leaping out of a five story window.
The Yankees have so much power in their lineup that they could have a Nick Johnson in their lineup. And Nick Johnson is better than Daniel Murphy. Daniel Murphy is a overrated bum.
Some of you need to stop. You make Yankee fans look real bad. How many all stars does this team need ? lol !
NJ doesn’t scare you when he comes to bat. He is a singles hitter who walks.
Matsui was a high OBP guy who could hit 30 HRs. Damon was a pretty good OBP guy who could hit 20 HRs and had speed.
Those guys feared hitters, NJ is not.
This is a brilliant tactical move by Cash as well since it clearly takes Damon out of the picture.
By signing Johnson there is no place for Johhny to play any longer. If he was hesitant to move on before he certainly will now.
As I said earlier that will leave us free to fill in the other missing piece of the Machine by making an offer to Holliday. It’s kind of like making it clear that we no longer want you w/o having to say it directly to Johnny. Why would that matter ?
Because Johnny is a very well liked player and that is a gentler way of prodding him to move on.
Johnson is also cheaper than Mats so money was saved as well.
Money that that can be allocated to the pool of money needed for other things .
“NJ doesn’t have the speed of your ‘normal’ 2-hole and he hits into his fair share of DP, but until last year, The Captain was in the 2 hole I think we all know his history with DPs.
Ideally, you’d rather have a speedier guy in the 2 hole, but NJ will see pitches and make a guy work, giving DJ better opps to run (hopefully). I’ll take that. NJ hits for average and hits to all fields. He has a better glove that Swish @ 1B for the days that Tex doesn’t play there.
The idea that they chose NJ over Matsui is not correct. I will continue to believe that if Matsui was still on the market right now, they would be talking to him first. However, that was not their priority at that time. They were talking to Lackey and in on Halladay (at what depth, who knows). Matsui decided not to wait and took a deal, as did Cameron. Damon wants too much, so it’s on to NJ for a reasonable price.”
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+ 100
I don’t think there is any way to fully evaluate what these various moves and non-moves will mean until the full roster is filled out.
It could be that Cashman has in mind replacing Johnny’s batting spot with Johnson and signing a different player, such as Holliday (or someone comparable), who is younger.
It doesn’t make a lot of sense looking at it from the viewpoint of JUST this move. It might make more sense once the Yankees moves are completed.
Nick’s power will probably be helped by NYS and being further removed from wrist problems.
1. How do you know Cash did not offer Matsui a contract? When was the last time Cashman publicized anything?
2. There is no way Cashman is going to come out and say Matsui was the one who did not want to come back. It would have tarnished his image and Cashman respects Matsui way too much to pull that.
I think it was mutual but I would not rule out Matsui not wanting to come back at all. He said the reason he signed with the Angels is because he wanted a chance to play the OF.
And finally Matsui is not a better hitter then NJ. Give me the stats that say so. I will start you off with one:
Career OPS+
Matsui:124
NJ: 125
This is about dumping salary and nothing else. I can’t believe the talk i hear about this kid from the rule 5 draft. there was a reason why he wasn’t on a 40 man roster. he is shelley duncan…at least we could have been loyal to shelley.
I think Cash misplayed his hand…
He didn’t think Matsui would sign this quickly…and thought he could get Damon on the cheap.
He may wind up with NJ (nice player), but give up two proven performers.
I can’t believe the organization wanted Johnson over Hideki at the same price!
WHY??
I still hope we get Damon at $20M for 2 years.
Package Melky or preferably Gardner for decent 5th starter…good reliever…or good position prospect.
Uhh, Bestsy are you a paid poster, on the roster, b/c all you do is post. Have a real job or life?
i just jumped on here, so im not sure if anyone already talked about this or not but who are the big names in fa next winter? i know lee, and webb i belive also is. but are there any other big names as well? esp at sp position…. i dont c us needing much outside that and MAYBE an of if a corner spot comes available or god forbid injury to any position….
Jeremy December 17th, 2009 at 7:57 pm
The Yankees have so much power in their lineup that they could have a Nick Johnson in their lineup. And Nick Johnson is better than Daniel Murphy. Daniel Murphy is a overrated bum.
Some of you need to stop. You make Yankee fans look real bad. How many all stars does this team need ? lol !
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I would venture that a fair share of these same fans thought that Cash was ‘an idiot’ or ‘asleep’ or ‘needed to be fired’ when he didn’t get Keith Foulke or Eric Gagne.
You’ll get over it.
Oh yeah and a big LOL to the poster who said that Granderson is barely an upgrade to Cabrera…….
Nope. RT @PhilipJWalsh They’re not going into the season with Melky in left. Watch for a Holliday surprise.
10 minutes ago from web
From Ken Davidoff twitter
I don’t think you need to have feared hitters in every slot. If you have batters who work the pitchers well it helps the batter who follows them. Its why Abreu was so good in the lineup, Alex got to see a lot of pitches prior to his AB.
Who cares if he is a “feared” hitter? Is that like the “gritty gutty” factor? None of those things matter
Next step: re-acquire Jose Tabata.
Outfield is set and Cougar Revenue replaces Japan Revenue.
“This is about dumping salary and nothing else. I can’t believe the talk i hear about this kid from the rule 5 draft. there was a reason why he wasn’t on a 40 man roster. he is shelley duncan…at least we could have been loyal to shelley”
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he reminds you of Duncan? When did you see Hoffmann play? Oh that’s right you didn’t
oops. Didn’t mean to include the “you’ll get over it” part…
Nick’s power will probably be helped by NYS and being further removed from wrist problems.
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thank You! People like to conveniently only use the Yankee stadium argument when it benefits players they like.
Johnson will be great.
Blonde, I see you live up to the expression “dumb blonde”
I know people fear change, but why is Cashman a moron because Damon and Matsui aren’t coming back? Matsui took the first deal that came along and wanted to play some of. But Cashman is a moron? Damon wants 13 a year for 3 or 4 years. He has a fool for an agent who won’t back off that. Sometimes the business side of it just hurts.
NJ is a different type of batter than Matsui is. If there is another move that is made then it may make this move a little more clear.
Yes, I think this is the end for J. Damon and #Yankees. Cashman seems serious re: budget, youth, payroll management/roster flexibility.
31 minutes ago from web
Also from Ken Davidoff
*********
If the Yanks want Holliday, they will get him, and why wouldn’t they want him?
It is Boras out to close the deal. If he keeps it reasonable, possibly backloading it, why wouldn’t we pull the trigger?
Anybody?
No you live up to word dumb. You’re just a nasty unemployed know it all.
I’m hearing that the Yanks will be asking Nick to initial his contract out of fear that a full signature might be too much strain on the wrist.
The yankees have saved nearly 20 million dollars by having granderson and johnson. They are dumping a million here and a million there. Bruney is another drop, molina is another. They sat down and figured out how to dump salary and they are doing it. they will try to sign duchcherer for a fraction too and hope he produces.
Anyone who thinks holliday is coming is crazy. the hand writing is on the wall…Hal has the balance sheet in his hand…..profits profits profits…that is what this about
makes no sense, if the Yankees were going to go after a full time DH it should have been Matsui. Plus Johnson’s power isn’t all that impressive, certainly wasn’t back in 2003. They are basically giving him the same contract that Matsui got and they are almost the same player except Matsui has more power.
Big whoop he can play first? Who cares when the Yankees already have a gold glove first basemen as well as Nick Swisher.
Dumb move.
Hey Phil, was that you tweeting to Davidoff?
Living in NYC.. with Swish and NJ, .aren’t we worried about becoming another New York Nicks!?
wow. Worthy of a re-post: per Ken Davdoff
Nope. RT @PhilipJWalsh They’re not going into the season with Melky in left. Watch for a Holliday surprise
yankees will not commit 5 years to holliday with jeter needing to be resigned, tex’s deal, arod’s deal, cc’s deal and aj. holliday is a nice player not a great player. mauer is a guy you want to offer that to. that’s the point. payroll flexability. amazing how long it took them to get out from under giambi deals for people to want them to go back to the same issues
He has a fool for an agent who won’t back off that. Sometimes the business side of it just hurts.
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Yeah he’s as dumb as a fox. Pricing his low commission Damon out for his premium product, Holliday. What a fool!
Isn’t it fat on pie? Your posts are annoying and you could disappear and nothing would be lost. Go away.
Matsui wanted to play the outfield, and the Yankees wanted him as a DH only. I believe that’s where the difference was, not really money.
The picture is crystal clear to anyone who chooses to see it. We got Granderson, we got our DH and no longer need Damon, And Melky is not going to be the starter in LF. Matt Holliday is (I hope and believe). He is going to be our LF.
That completes the Cashman puzzle, and creates the MACHINE.
Watch it unfold folks admire Cash’s brilliance. He looks like a Grandmaster to me right now. I hope he doesn’t let me down and only seem great instead.
First, OBA is the single most important hitting skill to have and Johnson has it in spades. His batting eye helps get us to the other team’s middle relievers. Second, Johnson is not limited to DH. He is a good first baseman and provides important protection in the event of an injury to Tex. Third, he is a true Yankee, i.e., a home-grown product, meaning nobody can whine about the Yankees “buying” him. Fourth, it’s sad to say but Damon is asking for too much.
Granderson isn’t a huge upgrade over Cabrera. They were virtually the exact same player last year.
Granderson had a .259 EQA, Melky a .259 EQA.
Granderson was 4 runs above average in the field last year, Melky was exactly league average.
There is absolutely no guarantee that the Granderson from 2007-2008 will return to the fold. The only reason Granderson was so absurdly good in those years was that he had a ridiculously unsustainable BABIP in 2007 (.360) and hit a ridiculous amount of triples that wouldn’t carry over to any ballpark outside of the Motor City.
Granderson is the guy he was last year, maybe a little bit more, but maybe a little bit less. It was his first season of late with a normal BABIP (.275), and as a platoon player being forced to hit against lefties I don’t see any dramatic spike in his batting average coming. He has neither enough power nor enough plate discipline to be a truly useful player as a .250-.260 hitter.
Seems logical Mick but one never knows what the stealth Brian Cashman has on his mind except Hal Steinbrenner.
All i know is when Johnson dons those pinstripes . .He’ll have my full support !
Good Luck Nick !!..
NJ has a good OBP but he will clog up the bases in the 2 hole. Cashman signing him means goodbye Damon.
Damon wanted too much money/years, it will be interesting to see where he goes.
The Other Phil (Don’t Feed the Trolls!)
LOL ! Yeah I try to ignore some of these posters. But sometimes I can’t. You would think that the Yankees didn’t even win the World Series according to some of these posts.
Well Mick I hope Damon enjoys Seattle..
“Unless Cash thought Matsui’s knees were totally finished.”
Not sure what Cash thinks, but I think that they are pretty near shot. Getting your knees drained on a regular basis is a clear sign of a major problem that will continue to decline.
——————————————————–
oh because nick johnson is the poster boy for avoiding the DL? Theres a good chance matsui will see less time on the DL than nicky boy next year…johnson makes carl pavano look like cal ripken jr
I question the moves Cashman is making because they don’t seem to make a lot of sense right now. Plus, emotion plays into this as well.
Many hated the idea of signing Damon in the beginning. Watching them play so often and seeing what they bring gives emotional attachment, and it makes it hard to see them go. After they both had a big part in sealing the championship, its tough to separate the emotion from practical evaluation.
There might still be other things that Cashman as in mind of doing. It may very well change people’s minds about the wisdom of the earlier moves.
Interesting that Davidoff seems to think the Yanks are in on Holliday
I liked Nick the Stick back in 2002/03 and was sad to see him go.
Now….dumb move. Should have kept Matsui over him. Nick cant stay healthy and bad wrist = no power. With Tex at 1B what is the point? Nick could play the field but unless Tex gets hurt he never will.
Nick + Granderson > Matsui + Damon ?
Younger and more upside now but who would you rather want hitting late in a post season game?
How would you like your Holliday package giftwrapped Mr. Cashman ? Oh, the pinstriped wrapping will do just fine. when would you like it delivered ? Before Xmas of course !
Can we have Warren Buffet come in and mediate this DH thing a la A-Rod?
Hope Scioscia plays Matsui in LF a lot!
Blonde
December 17th, 2009 at 8:06 pm
Isn’t it fat on pie? Your posts are annoying and you could disappear and nothing would be lost. Go away.
====
Why would anyone take the trouble to write something so mean spirited?
“Interesting that Davidoff seems to think the Yanks are in on Holliday”
———————————————-
very interesting
G-C
Will you just stop. You are one of those fans that always has to complain about something. Granderson is better than Melky so stop with these crazy remarks. Also no one can predict how any player will perform down the line so why are you making the case for Granderson and no one else ?
MATSUI WANTED TO PLAY IN THE FIELD, NOT DH. HE WASN’T GOING TO GET THAT FROM THE YANKEES. IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT WHETHER THE YANKEES WANTED HIM BACK. IT IS A TWO WAY STREET.
jeez.
curtis had a 861 ops on the road last year, he be fine
Btw, who signs a designated hitter to bat 2nd in your lineup?
NICE LOGIC! So we’re really counting on Curtis Granderson to protect A-Rod in the lineup? Is that what this is coming to?
vinny-b (bows to the great Casey Kelly) December 17th, 2009 at 8:06 pm
wow. Worthy of a re-post: per Ken Davdoff
Nope. RT @PhilipJWalsh They’re not going into the season with Melky in left. Watch for a Holliday surprise
____________
Maybe he just reads this blog! lol.
TylerKepner 2 guys in MLB with a better OBP than Nick Johnson in ’09: Mauer and Pujols
Everyone take a deep breath, our team is getting younger, and staying competitive.
“How would you like your Holliday package giftwrapped Mr. Cashman ? Oh, the pinstriped wrapping will do just fine. when would you like it delivered ? Before Xmas of course”
———————————————
lol, MTU. I know Mrs Holliday will not be having gifts wrapped in Boston
That’s Cash’s job, to evaluate without letting emotion get in the way.
Damon was a wonderful player for us and I will always remember him fondly. He will always be a Yankee……..but this team is not getting any younger and Cash is trying to put together a very good team that is in it for the long haul. He definitely wanted Damon back, but Damon wanted Cash couldn’t give him anymore…..and that’s what it comes down to.
Vinny-
Interesting but not surprising. I’ve been expecting it for a while now. It fits with everything else Cash has done in one neat little puzzle.
vinny, the Davidoff tweets are the first signs of any reporters thinking this way.
Its gonna be a fun few days coming up.
That was me tweeting to Davidoff.
“Maybe he just reads this blog! lol”
—————————————
yup. cutting edge
Really guys? For some people whatever the Yankees do that isn’t spending 20+ million a year on the best player available is a failure meanwhile every single move made by the red sox or anyone else is complete genius. How will we ever compete with Mike Cameron. Oh WOE IS US!
Nick Johnson is exactly the type of player major league clubs want these days. Patient, high OBP and can hit for some power and some average.
Some people just look at the top free agents and that is their wish list. They don’t care about anyone else. They are also have their head clouded from retaining guys. Just because they WERE a Yankee doesn’t mean they are the best player for us.
The Yankees haven’t dropped the ball on anything yet. Show me any evidence where they truly dropped the ball. Please please please show me. Show me that they were begging Matsui to come back and he went elsewhere. Show me how bad we wanted Lackey and the super genius Red Sox swept him away from us. Show me how Halladay going to the NL and us holding on to top level prospects because we knew we were going to get ripped off compared to everyone else was dropping the ball. Please please please show me this evidence.
The Red Sox not signing Tex last year was dropping the ball. They wouldn’t raise their offer on a true game changer and we swept in and grabbed him. THAT is dropping the ball. And guess what…he has worked out wonderfully.
The Yankees let two old guys walk and brought in a solid major leaguer and a young exciting outfielder.
Did I love Matsui…yes. A true professional and a great Yankee. But he played for years in Japan and his knees are shot and someone else was willing to let him play the field. He had a better offer and we weren’t jumping at the bit to get him.
Damon is being a whiny you know what about his contract and is drinking all the Boras Kool-aid. And you know what…he’s going to be forced to sign with a worse team for less than the Yanks would have given him and slowly play out the rest of his contract not winning world series. Obviously the money means more than winning to him at this point.
I hope you guys have some good condiments ready to make all those words taste good when you are forced to swallow them.
Bodh, thanks! I don’t care about this person – how I wish there was an ignore function on here, though.
The three top left field candidates are Holliday, Bay, & Damon. Once the first two sign, Damon will get his money from some team desperate for his services.
Cash said it himself. We are nowhere near done. We got Johnson now. A SP is prob next. And if we don’t get Holliday, don’t doubt that Cash won’t trade for one. We are still far from over. Johnson is not an upgrade for Matsui but he is a legitimate replacement. Plus, let’s not forget that we JUST signed Granderson who will make up for the power loss.
all you twitter heads read my lips: Posada will bat 5th to protect Arod. short attention head fools. don’t get your panties in a twist about the #2 hitter. damon and sui are old, they cannot play forever.
because Betsy does everyday. She’s boring
vinny-b (bows to the great Casey Kelly) December 17th, 2009 at 8:06 pm
wow. Worthy of a re-post: per Ken Davdoff
Nope. RT @PhilipJWalsh They’re not going into the season with Melky in left. Watch for a Holliday surprise
————————————————————
I think its a tweet from another twitterperson. And he just put ‘Nope’ in front of it. So he doesn’t think Holliday will come to NY
“Younger and more upside now but who would you rather want hitting late in a post season game?”
Well since neither have really played late in as many postseason games as Damon and Matsui, and they’re younger and have more upside, I want them.
The Damon-ator
December 17th, 2009 at 8:05 pm
makes no sense, if the Yankees were going to go after a full time DH it should have been Matsui. Plus Johnson’s power isn’t all that impressive, certainly wasn’t back in 2003
***********************************************************
that is a dumb statement as in 2003 Nick hit 19 doubles and 13 hrs with 70 walks in 300 abs which is the equivalent of about half a season. Certainly more impressive than the 12 homers Damon hit in 600 abs in ’07 for us no?
Oops, my bad………this was pointed out to me on another board, but Davidoff is actually saying “NOPE” to a tweeter’s suggestion that the Yankees are in for Holliday.
Oh well, lol
lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins)
December 17th, 2009 at 7:59 pm
And finally Matsui is not a better hitter then NJ. Give me the stats that say so. I will start you off with one:
Career OPS+
Matsui:124
NJ: 125
—————————————-
A lot of people here are underrating how good of a hitter Nick Johnson is.
Phil-
That’s awesome ! It’s gonna happen. You and I both know it.
Jeter
Johnson
Texiera
Rodriguez
Posada
Granderson
Cano
Swisher
Cabrera
This is not too shabby…
“vinny, the Davidoff tweets are the first signs of any reporters thinking this way.
Its gonna be a fun few days coming up”
———————————————
Abdab: yes. Difficult to believe the YES Hot Stove Show went 60 minutes without mentioning Matt Holliday’s name. (At least, i didn’t hear it)
The Damon-ator December 17th, 2009 at 8:12 pm
Btw, who signs a designated hitter to bat 2nd in your lineup?
___________
It all depends on what the needs are, no?
IF, (please note the IF), the Yankees have something in works to have a LF player coming in who can hit behind Alex, and have officially moved on from signing Damon, the lineup could use a #2 type hitter.
The individual moves don’t need to make sense as much as the final product does.
hey since we are bringing old yankees back …how about david cone….maybe boomer wells….aaron boone…..they might hold up better than nick johnson. nick has been hurt so much they canceled his health insurance.
Really Phil? LOL That was my bad for posting that tweet because I completely misunderstood it……..I really don’t think Hal has any desire to spend any more $$$ (not that much anyway).
Abda-
You get it also.
“hey since we are bringing old yankees back …how about david cone….maybe boomer wells….aaron boone…..they might hold up better than nick johnson. nick has been hurt so much they canceled his health insurance.”
Rick
The funny thing is I bet Wells would try and make a comeback.
vinny, if Cashman is working this out in stealth mode, they might be using their own network to give disinformation to the other teams.
It could be that a deal for Holliday is nearly complete, making the Johnson signing the first of two punches. It can help keep the other teams from jumping in to muddy up the works.
Davidoff saying “next target will be starting pitcher”
Lest we forget, signing Johnson keeps him away from the Red Sox, who may now be forced to trade half their farm system for Adrian Gonzalez.
So they unceremoniously put the boots to the World Series MVP, a man who epitomized what a Yankee should be by the way he handled himself on and off the field for an overweight injury prone underachiever like Nick Johnson? It would be one thing if Cashman’s professed logic wasn’t that he didnt want to fill the DH slot with someone that couldnt play in the field. But to go out and sign a player that gives them no more flexibility than Matsui is just baffling.
What’s even more perplexing is that by signing Nick Johnson rather than Matsui they now need to fill another spot in the lineup, the #5 hitter to protect A Rod. So let’s say they sign Holliday. That makes either Melky or Swisher expendable. What kind of pitching would either of those 2 players bring? Not very much.
If heathly, and that a big if… Johnson probably will sprain a wrist signing the contract… he might be able to fill the #2 slot. But Granderson could too. The Yanks are losing 175 RBI in Damon & Matsui. Granderson & Johnson won’t make that up. Cashman has boxed himself into a corner.
I’m pretty sure Paul Molitor spent a bunch of his career DHing from the 2 hole after he recovered from the endless string of injuries he had in his 20s.
Abda-
I agree completely and made the same point earlier. As i said, you GET it ! I am beginning to believe that Cash is not only a good strategist but a great one. He is one move away from rising to that level.
If “The demon seed,” Boras is hocking Holliday to the Yankees,
he must be steering Damon to the Cardinals.
If Johnson is just swinging the bat, why are injuries such an issue?
The Yankees said at the news conference they wanted to add another bat. They did that in Johnson, apparently. Where is any sign they even have considered Holliday? I have read none other than from we bloggers. I like Johnson’s OBP, but this is a head scratcher. He is, for all practical purposes, only a DH. I think it is now on to pitching, but I still wish it were otherwise.
Also, how do we know that the Yankees aren’t intending on trading for a LF bat? Still a possibility. Not a necessity, but still.
“I’m pretty sure Paul Molitor spent a bunch of his career DHing from the 2 hole after he recovered from the endless string of injuries he had in his 20s”
—————————————-
phil: you have it right. And when Molitor moved to DH, basically his injuries were over. I expect the DH will do the same for Nick Johnson
vinny-b (bows to the great Casey Kelly)
They did talk about Holliday. They all agreed he is most likely going back to the Cardinals in their opinion. Not a word of any Yankee’s intrest in him. I thought that was curious until the light bulb in my head went off and told me the Yanks can use the YES network to both promote and hide their interests.
So they unceremoniously put the boots to the World Series MVP, a man who epitomized what a Yankee should be by the way he handled himself on and off the field for an overweight injury prone underachiever like Nick Johnson? It would be one thing if Cashman’s professed logic wasn’t that he didnt want to fill the DH slot with someone that couldnt play in the field. But to go out and sign a player that gives them no more flexibility than Matsui is just baffling.
What’s even more perplexing is that by signing Nick Johnson rather than Matsui they now need to fill another spot in the lineup, the #5 hitter to protect A Rod. So let’s say they sign Holliday. That makes either Melky or Swisher expendable. What kind of pitching would either of those 2 players bring? Not very much.
If heathly, and that a big if… Johnson probably will sprain a wrist signing the contract… he might be able to fill the #2 slot. But Granderson could too. The Yanks are losing 175 RBI in Damon & Matsui. Granderson & Johnson won’t make that up. Cashman has boxed himself into a corner.
———-
I didn’t see Matsui extending himself to get the Yanks attention either.
Maybe it was mutual?
When you are heads and shoulders over everyone else in terms of offense you don’t NEED to fill those RBI holes.
Maybe Arod and Tex get more RBIs now becasue Johnson is on base for them making up for part of that gap.
What if granderson is matches or betters Damon’s production?
You guys are raining hate be assuming a lot of “ifs”
NJ had a .477 OBP in 150 PAs with the Marlins to close the season. While hitting .279 with 2 HRs and 8 doubles. Kind of makes you wonder what pitchers are afraid of. But if he can keep the voodoo going, great. Low strikeouts also good.
Austin-
It’s becoming clearer by the minute all you have to do is look. No insult intended.
its funny how the nick johnson supporters always preface their explanation of how good he is with “if he stays healthy”. They even go as far as saying he hit 15 homeruns in 300 ab’s once – yeah thats because 300 at bats is what he averages per year since the other 300 he is on the DL.
And herein lies the problem folks, he hasn’t been able to actually stay on the field, no one doubts he is a pretty good hitter, the problem lies with him not being able to actually stay off the DL.
The Yankees may not sign Holliday but for some of you to insist that they aren’t even considering it is pretty naive.
Looking ahead one year to the free agent class of 2011, there’s no player that the Yankees don’t already have or will sign (Jeter / Rivera) that jumps out as a “must get” with the exception of Cliff Lee and that’s if he doesn’t re-up with Seattle. Beckett is a flameout waiting to happen.
Forget Joe Mauer. With the Twins opening a new venue (Target Field) next year, they’ll open the vault for the St. Paul, Minn. native and lock him up for years.
Pitchers like McAllister and Nova could be ready for the big show by then.
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.c.....-2011.html
“I think it was mutual but I would not rule out Matsui not wanting to come back at all. He said the reason he signed with the Angels is because he wanted a chance to play the OF.
And finally Matsui is not a better hitter then NJ. Give me the stats that say so. I will start you off with one:
Career OPS+
Matsui:124
NJ: 125″
Bobby Abreu, Juan Rivera, Torii Hunter, Gary Matthews Jr. Who is Matsui playing over? If your only argument for Matsui wanting to leave the Yankees is playing time in the outfield, you lose.
As far as why Matsui is a better hitter, which stat would you like to look at? batting average? slugging percentage? strikeouts? post season success?
The ONLY think that Johnson is better than Matsui at is drawing walks.
If you really think Nick Johnson is a better hitter than Hideki Matsui, you haven’t been watching.
Looks like no one wants to consider that statistically Curtis Granderson is a far better bet to perform at his 2009 level than his 2007-2008 level. I guess rational, statistically based thought gets shunned when it makes us uncomfortable?
Now Cash will ceremoniously move on to signing a starting pitcher that will hardly be an improvement over our current 4/5 starters, and probably will be a good deal worse. That will make us weaker in the rotation, and when one of starters 4/5 has his career wrecked by being put in the bullpen, either one will weaken the bullpen by taking higher leverage innings away from Robertson, who is a better reliever than said starters 4/5.
In other words, we’re on a train wreck path to just get worse this offseason, not only now but for the future, when Cashman makes the decision to take one of two extraordinary young starting pitchers and relegate him to the incredibly useful world of the bullpen.
If Sheets signs, Joba starts in AAA and is back with the team by May, considering that itll probably take that long for the poster-child for wasting Hall of Fame Talent by being completely lazy to get hurt again.
t in Johnson, apparently. Where is any sign they even have considered Holliday? I have read none other than from we bloggers.——————————————–
where were the warning shots for Tex? How quickly they forget.
its funny how the nick johnson supporters always preface their explanation of how good he is with “if he stays healthy”. They even go as far as saying he hit 15 homeruns in 300 ab’s once – yeah thats because 300 at bats is what he averages per year since the other 300 he is on the DL.
And herein lies the problem folks, he hasn’t been able to actually stay on the field, no one doubts he is a pretty good hitter, the problem lies with him not being able to actually stay off the DL.
——
I am a johnson supporter and I’ve never prefaced a claim with that.
A lot of his injuries were freak ones. He’s not pulling muscles and whatnot all over the place.
Anyone can get hurt from a collision or something of the sort. It’s tough to get hurt as a DH, unless your Matsui and need your knees drained twice from the DH role.
So that probably means no Holliday…..if we’re going after a SP next…….
Phil, FYI – Pinstripes Plus has a Q&A with Julio Mosquero. Unless I’m reading it wrong, he seems more impressed with Romine behind the plate than Montero
so basically the yankees are paying 6 million dollars to have miranda DH this year – johnson’s 5.5 mil + miranda’s 500K..real bright
Disinformation. Lull the Cards into a false sense of security then STRIKE w/o warning. That’s the ticket Cash, and that is his MO(see last year). I think it’s over. We get Holliday. what a beautiful plan. Something worthy of admiration.
Newsday’s Ken Davidoff thinks that Johnny Damon’s run in New York is about to come to an end.
It is interesting that no one on here can find a single stat that Matsui is better at then HR. Getting on base is the most important thing in baseball and NJ does that almost better then anyone else.
The Yankees have huge HR hitters in Tex, Arod, and Grandy. Having a guy with the OBP of NJ is going to be huge for the Yankee offense next season. Those 3 guys are going to have so many opportunities to drive in runs. A lot of Tex’s and Arod’s 1 run HR are going to turn into 2 run HR.
Finally, someone like NJ is going to be a HUGE asset come playoff time. You are facing top of the line pitching almost every night. No matter how good a pitcher is that does not change how good an eye NJ has. He is going to make those guys like Cliff Lee work and help get to into the pen.
“Anyone can get hurt from a collision or something of the sort. It’s tough to get hurt as a DH, unless your Matsui and need your knees drained twice from the DH role.”
Johnson is brittle, period. I could plunge from a fifth story window and probably not break my femur, and Johnson somehow managed to do so in a collision on a pop-up.
“I’m pretty sure Paul Molitor spent a bunch of his career DHing from the 2 hole after he recovered from the endless string of injuries he had in his 20s”
He actually got about a season’s worth of PA’s in the #2 hole (613 total). He was pretty much 1st (7300 PA’s) or 3rd (3900 PA’s.
Molitor could also move a little, even post injury. Johnson is a total plodder. I Don’t mind him hitting 2nd but he’s going to clog things up some.
Nick has a better career EQA than Hit-Deki has.
Blake-
for a reporter he is a little bit behind the curve so to speak.
I am a johnson supporter
———————————-
got to be a better way to word that.
Looks like no one wants to consider that statistically Curtis Granderson is a far better bet to perform at his 2009 level than his 2007-2008 level. I guess rational, statistically based thought gets shunned when it makes us uncomfortable?
Now Cash will ceremoniously move on to signing a starting pitcher that will hardly be an improvement over our current 4/5 starters, and probably will be a good deal worse. That will make us weaker in the rotation, and when one of starters 4/5 has his career wrecked by being put in the bullpen, either one will weaken the bullpen by taking higher leverage innings away from Robertson, who is a better reliever than said starters 4/5.
In other words, we’re on a train wreck path to just get worse this offseason, not only now but for the future, when Cashman makes the decision to take one of two extraordinary young starting pitchers and relegate him to the incredibly useful world of the bullpen.
If Sheets signs, Joba starts in AAA and is back with the team by May, considering that itll probably take that long for the poster-child for wasting Hall of Fame Talent by being completely lazy to get hurt again.
——
Man, even if all this worst case scenario stuff you are spewing is correct.
Even if every thing we did this offseason is dead wrong
WE STILL COMPETE WITH EVERYONE
There is plenty to look forward to. I like our team against any in the league as would any other reasonable fan.
We have like 4 or 5 top 20 players in baseball form this last year on out team in Arod, Tex, CC and Jeter.
I like how you spell doom for every single moves the Yanks have made. If even one of them works out they are only improving an already established juggernaut.
I think the deal just got quashed.
The reports coming in are that Nick just broke his index finger high-fiving his goldfish.
mick-
Ok. I am NJ’s jockstrap. Is that better.
There is not a single DH on the market that is not an injury risk. Really there is not a single DH on the market that is not a BIG injury risk. If they were not injury risks they would probably not be DHs. So, when saying NJ is an injury risk you have to compare it to other DHs
For example, lets take Matsui. He is not likely to stay healthy for 2 straight seasons. He would have to be extremely lucky for that to happen. Additionally, if Matsui is playing the field once or twice a week I do not think there is any chance he stays healthy.
here’s something to keep an eye on when the deal gets reported: see if part of his salary is a signing bonus. That’s an accounting trick they use against the luxury tax.
And just to add, I love what the Yankees have done so far this off-season.
Johnson: .385 BA, .468 OBP, 39 RBI lifetime with bases loaded
Phil, what is EqA?
From Joel Sherman:
Do we believe #Yankees have budget? Well, I heard never pursued Lackey, who they liked, because knew cost would be too high
about 7 hours ago from web
**** Lackey was too expensive but Holliday isn’t? That makes no sense……we’re not getting Holliday
Jeers-
That’s because he wasn’t thinking with his dipstick.
Nick D.
By all accounts Matsui was never offered a contract. I liked Nick Johnson when he came up as much as anybody. But look at him. Can you honestly look at Nick Johnson and “now there is an athlete”? He’s always been overweight, and that makes anyone playing professional sports more suseptible to injury.
Having said that, I do think Johnson can fil the #2 hole IF he stays healthy. But neither Johnson or Granderson are going to provide protection for A Rod. And if A Rod isnt at his productive best, this team doesnt win. That’s been proven. That’s where the problem lies.
mtu
i knew you were an athletic supporter. lol
If he stays healthy, Arod could be an important player in 2010.
Man , What a difference a week makes……The bandwagon jumping tonight is a joke…..And please you cannot be serious in comparing Nick Johnson ( who I’ve always like since his development days a dedcade ago ) to Matsui…..If you do think he’s the better ballplayer, then you need to go back and repeat Baseball 101…..Cashman overplayed his hand with # 55, as he never thought he’d sign so quickly….Matsui read the market and secured himself a job with a condending team, as opposed to going to KC or Oakland …….This place is unique at least…
neither Johnson or Granderson are going to provide protection for A Rod. And if A Rod isnt at his productive best, this team doesnt win. That’s been proven. That’s where the problem lies.
—————————————————
OK I WILL USE CAPS….WHY CANT JORGE POSADA, OUR CATCHER BAT 5TH AND PROTECT AROD????????????????
Nick D.
By all accounts Matsui was never offered a contract. I liked Nick Johnson when he came up as much as anybody. But look at him. Can you honestly look at Nick Johnson and “now there is an athlete”? He’s always been overweight, and that makes anyone playing professional sports more suseptible to injury.
Having said that, I do think Johnson can fil the #2 hole IF he stays healthy. But neither Johnson or Granderson are going to provide protection for A Rod. And if A Rod isnt at his productive best, this team doesnt win. That’s been proven. That’s where the problem lies.
——
I truly believe Posada can protect Arod in the line-up.
I wholly believe this fact. OBviously we differ there but for me, this whole argument is moot and doesn’t speak to me at all because the protection is right there.
Posada is a great bat that would need to BE protected in most line-ups in the league.
People do realize we are signing Johnson for 1 year right? Not 5
No one in the 2011 free agent class?
Carl Crawford??? Jason Werth is a young power hitter, wouldn’t mind him out there. Cliff Lee obviously.
On top of the cost for Lackey was Lackey missing a good part of two years with injuries and his velocity down for a 32 year old pitcher on a 5 year deal. You can’t do that with the AJ and CC deals. If you hand out another deal like that you want it for a younger pitcher without the injury quesiton marks. Sox had to worry about this year and if Beckett left after next season.
The Yankees never pursued Lackey because Cashman couldn’t bear the thought of looking at him for 5 years.
Seriously though, there are better pitchers on the market next year than Lackey. Holliday is the best outfielder available this year and next year via free agency. Just saying…
lets go yankees,
“It is interesting that no one on here can find a single stat that Matsui is better at then HR. Getting on base is the most important thing in baseball and NJ does that almost better then anyone else.”
What the hell are you talking about?
Matsui is better at batting average, slugging percentage, K/PA, and is a proven performer, both in NY and in clutch situations.
Nick Johnson is ONLY better at drawing walks.
Johnson the Injury-prone vs. Matsui the great hitter???
What the H??
OK I WILL USE CAPS….WHY CANT JORGE POSADA, OUR CATCHER BAT 5TH AND PROTECT AROD????????????????
—————————————————–
I’m out of this insanity, somebody protect Betsy.
A lot of his injuries were freak ones. He’s not pulling muscles and whatnot all over the place.
——————————————————–
so its Ok that his injuries were of the freakish variety – did he lose alot of playing time? yes he did – an injury is an injury is an injury and johnson has had ALOT of them be it of the freakish variety or not…pavano once was on the dl because he pulled his muscle in his behind (I tried writing the other word and was filteretd out) – and we crucified him for it – at honestly at least pavano has had about 3 seasons where he played all year – johnson i believe has had 1..maybe…
Posada is perfectly capable of providing the “protection” (something that probably doesn’t exist anyway) that A-Rod needs.
Whether or not we have a number five hitter to “protect” Arod is not the big question here. We just got worse offensively, period. Our competent homegrown CF has been moved to a position where he will be comfortably below average offensively, and was replaced by a guy who if he plays the way he did last year is no improvement there anyway. Oh, and Mariano Rivera could probably hit lefties better than he does.
If this is it, then let this be it. But I know it won’t be. Cashman will compound an already bad offseason by signing a FA starting pitcher that will only serve to stunt the development and further the demise of the best two starting pitching prospects this organization has had since Ron Guidry.
Man , What a difference a week makes……The bandwagon jumping tonight is a joke…..And please you cannot be serious in comparing Nick Johnson ( who I’ve always like since his development days a dedcade ago ) to Matsui…..If you do think he’s the better ballplayer, then you need to go back and repeat Baseball 101…..Cashman overplayed his hand with # 55, as he never thought he’d sign so quickly….Matsui read the market and secured himself a job with a condending team, as opposed to going to KC or Oakland …….This place is unique at least…
——
I really don’t get how you can make that claim. I don’t know how you can say that Cash wanted to bring Matsui back. I just don’t buy it.
No one was better filled-in on our own player’s physical status then us. We had the most information in regards to Matsui than anyone else. I really can’t buy that we dropped the ball on this one. I think letting in walk was the right idea.
May he goes and contends for the MVP this year by belting 35+ and driving in 100+ RBIs…or maybe his knees give out and he is a DL staple.
Obviously the Yanks made a decision here and I think it was the correct one.
Pat-
Holliday will be protecting Arod that is after we sign him.
“Matsui read the market and secured himself a job with a condending team, as opposed to going to KC or Oakland …….This place is unique at least…”
Nick Johnson’s signing isn’t about Matsui, but Damon. His bat is replacing our #2 hitter.
“By all accounts Matsui was never offered a contract.”
I recall reading earlier in the week that Cashman told Matsui there was some interest but that he had to settle the Damon matter first. Hideki was not comfortable with what he’d be left with if he waited.
Betsy – high on pie
December 17th, 2009 at 8:15 pm
Bodh, thanks! I don’t care about this person – how I wish there was an ignore function on here, though.
====
NP Bets.
Been reading rather than posting these days. Seems like the same stuff going round and round.
Looking forward to the season – particularly the two kids in the rotation and their progress there. At least, I’m hopeful they’re both in there.
Happy holidays to you.
no.27
December 17th, 2009 at 8:30 pm
“I think it was mutual but I would not rule out Matsui not wanting to come back at all. He said the reason he signed with the Angels is because he wanted a chance to play the OF.
And finally Matsui is not a better hitter then NJ. Give me the stats that say so. I will start you off with one:
Career OPS+
Matsui:124
NJ: 125?
Bobby Abreu, Juan Rivera, Torii Hunter, Gary Matthews Jr. Who is Matsui playing over? If your only argument for Matsui wanting to leave the Yankees is playing time in the outfield, you lose.
As far as why Matsui is a better hitter, which stat would you like to look at? batting average? slugging percentage? strikeouts? post season success?
The ONLY think that Johnson is better than Matsui at is drawing walks.
If you really think Nick Johnson is a better hitter than Hideki Matsui, you haven’t been watching.
—————————–
If Hideki does not get a chance to play the OF next season then the Angels are going to look REALLY bad. They are going to look like huge scumbags lying to Matsui to entice him to come there. If they do that players are going to be less inclined to sign there. The Angels organization is too smart to pull that nonsense.
OPS+ is the best statistic for telling you how good a hitter a player is. Nick Johnson and Hideki have the same career OPS+.
Given the power we already have in the lineup, I would take NJ over Matsui. He gets on base substantially more and getting on base is more important than anything else.
Mark
December 17th, 2009 at 8:43 pm
Johnson the Injury-prone vs. Matsui the great hitter???
What the H??
—————————-
Johnson the injury-prone great hitter vs. Matsui the injury prone great hitter.
Fixed it for you.
“Cashman overplayed his hand with # 55, as he never thought he’d sign so quickly….Matsui read the market and secured himself a job with a condending team, as opposed to going to KC or Oakland …”…
I think is a pretty accurate description of what went down. I think Cashman did get caught with his pants down a little. Matsui was a fall back option for the Yankees but when Lackey and Halladay moved in the same day that changed things and by then the Angels and Matsui had already begun talking. The Nick Johnson signing is fine but I’d rather have Matsui back for a million dollars more.
OPS + is far from the best statistic for measuring offensive performance. OPS as a stat is fundamentally flawed because it values on base percentage and slugging equally, which is misguided. It’s a nice stat but still a marginally rudimentary one.
I really didn’t want Holliday originally and now after hearing he’s part of the Fellowship of Christian Athletes, it throws up an even bigger red flag.
I hope the yanks sign someone like justin duchscherer. He can compete in spring training with Chamberlain and Hughes for the 4th and 5th starters. And if he loses the yanks could put Duchscherer in the bullpen.
I hope they give a 2-3 year contract to guys like Pinero or Marquis. I dont think there is anybody left on the market that is really an upgrade from Joba and Hughes. Sheets is a big time injury risk they might as well brought back Wang than.
Next year they should make a big time run at Cliff Lee. This is most likely Pettitte last year. Lee would be a great replacement for Pettitte.
this is still one of the all time funny threads.
MTU: are you all-in on the Holliday signing?
“It is interesting that no one on here can find a single stat that Matsui is better at then HR. Getting on base is the most important thing in baseball and NJ does that almost better then anyone else.”
Over the past 3 years Matsui offensive production has been worth 4.8 WAR.
Over the past 3 years Nick Johnson’s offensive production has been worth 2.6 WAR.
The prior three years of performance is generally what you use to project how a player will perform in the next season.
Looking at rate stats for Nick Johnson is extremely misleading.
I like Johnson quite a bit. I like this signing (though it is puzzling in many ways).
But it is very, very easy to over rate what Johnson’s value is going to be because there is such a huge disconnect between his performance on a rate basis and his overall production and worth.
There is no way to simply discount his injury history.
That’s not to say that he might not be healthy going forward particularly at DH but this move is a considerable risk.
There’s a very good chance Matsui will be a more valuable player next year than Johnson.
There is considerable uncertainty with both players – but more so with Johnson.
This is particularly true in yankee stadium where you know Matsui’s skill set will play in very well.
Johnson’s drop in power is a real issue. Sure it could be the wrist but there is even more risk with Johnson than there was a year ago when he signed with the Nats.
It’s very easy to look at rate stats and lose sight of the big picture because baseball statistics do a horrible job of conveying error and uncertainty.
Hello,
first i told you about the pending Teixeira signing a week in advance, next I told you Matsui would not be offered a contract.
Now expect Ben Sheets in Pinstripes within 6 days. Expect it.
“I really didn’t want Holliday originally and now after hearing he’s part of the Fellowship of Christian Athletes, it throws up an even bigger red flag.”
and why is that a bad thing?
Guys who get singles drive Chevys, Guys who hit Home Runs and drive in runs drive Cadillacs…….Reggie Jackson…
Posada is perfectly capable of providing the “protection” (something that probably doesn’t exist anyway) that A-Rod needs.
Whether or not we have a number five hitter to “protect” Arod is not the big question here. We just got worse offensively, period. Our competent homegrown CF has been moved to a position where he will be comfortably below average offensively, and was replaced by a guy who if he plays the way he did last year is no improvement there anyway. Oh, and Mariano Rivera could probably hit lefties better than he does.
If this is it, then let this be it. But I know it won’t be. Cashman will compound an already bad offseason by signing a FA starting pitcher that will only serve to stunt the development and further the demise of the best two starting pitching prospects this organization has had since Ron Guidry.
——
Ok fine. I give up hope. You’ve done me in. I’m drained of all hope. You are like a Dementor from Harry Potter.
Guys, Cashman has no idea what he is doing. That world series we just won was a aberration.
Lets shut down any more conversation. It’s over.
Woe is us.
how will we ever compete with a bunch of scrubs like CC Sabathia, AJ Burnett, Derek Jeter, Alex Rodriguez, Robinson Cano, Mariano Rivera, and Mark Texiera.
Might as well start selling off pieces of the champs teams now and start rebuilding.
Blake-
i guess your not seeing it my way after all. NJ only makes sense in the larger scheme of the whole team. After we secure Holliday and you see the lineup you’ll understand NJ a whole lot better. Or maybe you just refuse to believe what your brain is already telling you ? He ‘s a cog in the Machine they building and I believe he will fit perfectly
provided we get Holliday.
They didn’t pursue Lackey cause they wanted Halladay, and didn’t have as high a valuation of Lackey as he was gonna cost.
Jorge Posada in 2009 batting fifth:
.177/.260/.354
Robinson Cano in 2009 batting fifth:
.299/.318/.477
I know, Cano didn’t hit with RISP and I’m not a fan of his batting #5. But Jorge didn’t exactly make the case either.
as good as matsui was last year he tended to put his numbers up in bunches then go cold for a while, people misremember and think he was hot the entire year. Johnson isn’t a great player but he is younger than matsui and while he is injury prone ill still take his health potential over a 36 year old with no cartilage in either knee. Matsui’s knees filled up with fluid all the time last year, you’d have to assume it will only get worse with age. I just don’t see why all you you assume he’d have as good of a year as he did last. The guy missed major time in 08.
“I think is a pretty accurate description of what went down. I think Cashman did get caught with his pants down a little. Matsui was a fall back option for the Yankees but when Lackey and Halladay moved in the same day that changed things and by then the Angels and Matsui had already begun talking. The Nick Johnson signing is fine but I’d rather have Matsui back for a million dollars more.”
If the Yankees sign Holliday then that theory goes out the window.
Nick-
Pretty much. But I dont wager so dont even ask me.
Wow……….
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....-Sox-deals
All in all, it was productive day for the Red Sox and a productive winter. The front office has bettered the team and left the hated and aging Yankees with more worries than assumptions.
Yeah I got ahead of myself saying Matsui is better at nothing except HR. Hard to fully think out your thoughts sometimes on this board when the majority of the comments are negative. Mistake by me.
Regardless I stand by that I love this signing. If Matsui chose to leave then so be it. If Cash passed over Matsui I trust the Yankees judgement since they know Matsui better then anyone else.
Guys who get singles drive Chevys, Guys who hit Home Runs and drive in runs drive Cadillacs…….Reggie Jackson…
and guys who have 10 mistresses drive Nike golf balls…..oh that was uncalled for.
Frank,
Exactly. The Yankees never offered him a deal. And it’s not like they didnt have time to make him an offer. He wasnt going to wait any longer. It was obvious Cashman had little interest.
As for Posada batting 5th, he’ll turn 39 in August and will probably play the same number of games as he did last year,111. That leaves almost 1/3 of the season to someone else filling that spot in the lineup.That’s a lot of games.
There is no way to simply discount his injury history.
That’s not to say that he might not be healthy going forward particularly at DH but this move is a considerable risk.
——-
So you guys think Johnson is an injury risk?
I’ll give you two BIG injury risks.
Johnny Damon and Hideki Matsui.
I seem to remember Johnny “Balky Calf” Damon limping off the field during Game 6 of the World Series and Hideki “Glass Knees” Matsui getting his knees drained twice.
So if you are arguing that Johnson is a bad move i lieu of Matsui or Damon because of the injury risk, you are arguing against yourself.
How about WAR, G-C? Last year, Matsui was a 2.4 WAR player, Johnson was a 2.4 WAR player. Last year (in Granderson’s worst year and Cabrera’s best) Granderson was a 3.4 WAR player, Cabrera a 1.6 WAR player.
Jorge Posada in 2009 batting fifth:
.177/.260/.354
Robinson Cano in 2009 batting fifth:
.299/.318/.477
I know, Cano didn’t hit with RISP and I’m not a fan of his batting #5. But Jorge didn’t exactly make the case either.
——-
Whats the sample size there Timo.
I can only imagine it isn’t very big.
“OPS+ is the best statistic for telling you how good a hitter a player is. Nick Johnson and Hideki have the same career OPS+. ”
Huh? There is no”best statistic.” Different stats just provide different information.
And OPS/ OPS+ are very poorly constructed metrics. We use them but they are largely ad hoc.
“MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT”
I know you’re a phony ‘cos the other guy was “MAJOR ANNOUCEMENT” or something. So ha!
MTU: not looking for a wager, just curious. I think I’m with you. All the tea leaves spell Holliday — if you care to look.
MTU, I’m with you on Holliday. I hope they get him although I’m not quite as certain of it as you are.
Nick-
were you just baiting me, or are you all in on Holliday ? you like to place bets don’t you ?
“If Hideki does not get a chance to play the OF next season then the Angels are going to look REALLY bad. They are going to look like huge scumbags lying to Matsui to entice him to come there. If they do that players are going to be less inclined to sign there. The Angels organization is too smart to pull that nonsense.
OPS+ is the best statistic for telling you how good a hitter a player is. Nick Johnson and Hideki have the same career OPS+. ”
Sciossa has already said he’s not going to count on Matsui in the field. Everyone knows Matsui has knee problems and if they are serious about winning, they need his bat in the lineup as much as possible. Them not playing Matsui in the OF is not going to have any affect on future free agents.
As far as OPS+, you are begging people to name a stat that Matsui is better than Johnson at, even saying that no one could do it after I listed batting average, slugging percentage, K/PA, and his track record as a clutch performer in NY and in the playoffs. The ONLY reason that Nick Johnson’s OPS+ is close to Matsui’s is because Johnson draws more walks than him.
You claim that OBP trumps all other offensive categories without any sort of argument. Nick Johnson has a higher OBP than a lot of hitters that are far better than he is.
The aging Yankees?
How do you write that article after one team signs a 37 year old CF and the other trades for a 29 year old CF. I do not feel like looking it up but I am pretty sure the Red Sox are older then the Yankees
here is the point people any player can get hurt at anytime we can sign Holliday for 100mm tomm and he can tear an mcl falling off the dais at the press conference introducing him.
The Yanks- if it’s true we signed NJ- are assuming that he an give us 500abs for next season alone.OK
The last time Nick gave 500abs in a season he hit .290 with 23hrs 46 doubles 100 runs and 77rbis hitting 4th for the horrible Nats in a ballpark twice the size of YS. OH and he slugged .520 with a .950obps
The stat analysis tells you that on an ab for ab comparison Nick Johnson and Hidecki are equivalent but NJ gets on base at a much higher rate.
Sorry Nick you got your post in ahead of me. It’s good to have company on Holliday. If we are right Cashman moves from just a Ninja to a full-fledged Samauri. Agreed ?
“If the Yankees sign Holliday then that theory goes out the window”
Well that could be correct
Blake-
Trust the force.
CB, I don’t know what a rate stat is……can you explain? Thanks!
Why do we need power from NJ? His job is to hit and get on base for the thumpers behind him. Matsui’s knees are shot to pieces – it’s not a good thing when you have to have your knees drained once, nevermind twice. If he insists on playing the field, then he’ll need a wheelchair to get around the basis.
The Yankees took a gamble with AJ that his new routine (among other things) would allow him to continue to stay healthy…….He’s now had 2 consecutive years of over 200 IP. The Yankees are taking a risk with NJ, but they obviously think he represents a lesser risk than Matsui. Matsui has no choice but to deal with iffy knees whereas Johnson might never trip over a bag or suffer some flukey injury. Luis Castillo almost hurt himself by slipping on dugout steps – every player is at risk the same way.
Bodh, happy holidays to you as well!
Its clear to see the Yankees are trying to lower payroll this year and they don’t like a lot of players in this years class and are not going to sign a guy to just sign him or trade the farm to make people happy. They have their eye on next years class without a doubt.
Pat M. December 17th, 2009 at 8:51 pm
Guys who get singles drive Chevys, Guys who hit Home Runs and drive in runs drive Cadillacs…….Reggie Jackson…
________
And both are needed to drive Motown.
I already took back my comment about Matsui being better at only HR. I said it was not a well thought out comment.
How is that not going affect future FA signings? They would have lied directly to Matsui and Matsui’s agents face. That is not good business and agents are not going to take anything they say serious. You are not doing yourself any favors lying to players. MLB players are a tight group and the union does not like when their boys get treated poorly
Mark Teixera career OPS : .923
Matt Holliday Career OPS : .933
I can’t wait for you NJ haters to be kissing his fannie when he consistently works the count, gets hits and makes the lineup that much longer. Nick the quick may never be Matsui, but Matsui will no longer be Matsui. He could barely walk let alone run. You’ll see. Angels bought damaged goods. Cashman would not have let him walk if he thought he had another year in him. The organization has seen him a lot more than the Angels. The Angels are living off his 3 games in the WS. Trust your eyes people. Nick the Quick is back where he belongs, with the Champions.
Blake-
Two peas in a pod. Almost.
Tyler Kepner Twitter, Johnny Damon on Nick Johnson deal:
“I’m glad Nick gets to come back to a great organization.
He will love the guys and the new stadium.”
bring in sheets and call it a day
Johnson can’t hold Matsui’s Jockstrap…….
OBP is the most important stat in baseball. You could hit 60 HR but if your OBP is terrible, it does not really matter because all you do is hit HR. It is pretty logical. When you go up to bat you look to get on base. Everything flows from your OBP and I really do not think you can make an argument that there is any other single more important statistic.
Dayn Perry hates the Yankees……The Sox absolutely improved, but he probably just licked his lips as he wrote that last sentence. Wishful thinking, lol
The foxsports link was classic. The guy writes from time to time for Fox Sports and focuses on the relationship between sports and politics.
I guess the old and aging Yankees were good enough last year no? If that’s old I will take them over the young and spry Sox if it means winning a championship. By the way I guess signing an old Mike Cameron, having V Tek, Big Papi and Wakefield on there is a sign of being a young team. Interesting. Or Mike Lowell who they can’t get rid of. At least are old guys might pass physicals to get traded
Betsy,
The exact opposite is true. The Red Sox are the ones that are aging. Scutaro is 34, Cameron 37, and Martinez and Lackey are 31. The Red Sox have yet to unload 36 year old Mike Lowell. JD Drew and David Ortiz are both 34. Jason Varitek is 38.Tim Wakefield is 43 and needed a cane to walk. As a matter of fact, the only players in the Red Sox lineup under the age of 30 are Pedroia and Bucholz.
Curtis Granderson is 29.The average age of the Yankees right now is younger than the Red Sox.
Nick Johnson *ouch*
Just saying the name hurts.
Nick is no more of an injury risk than Matsui however. Not like Matsui is some sort of iron man (despite his reputation of course)
Betsy,
A rate stat is something live batting average. It tells you that a player got a hit 30.4% of the time, etc.
Contrast that to a stat like hits during the season e.g. 212 hits. These colloquially in baseball are often called “counting stats.”
They actually contain the similar data but provide different information.
Players like johnson can often be very good on a rate basis because when they play they’re terrific. But the problem is that they don’t play that much so projecting how they’ll do based on their rate of performance is problematic.
So…no comebacks to the injury risk of Johnny “Balky Calk” Damon or Hideki “Glass Knees” Matsui?
I thought for sure someone would try to tell me how that isn’t true.
Situation-
Why, are you going to bed ?
MTU: not quite all in on Holliday, but I think I’m close.
And I do like to make wagers, but I’m skating on pretty thin ice with my wager with Erica about Chien-ming Wang… if I lost that one I’m back to even after I won a sucker bet with commenter Patrick… if I win I’m 2 for 2 and happy to quit (for the time being) while I’m ahead on LoHud.
CB
December 17th, 2009 at 8:57 pm
“OPS+ is the best statistic for telling you how good a hitter a player is. Nick Johnson and Hideki have the same career OPS+. ”
Huh? There is no”best statistic.” Different stats just provide different information.
And OPS/ OPS+ are very poorly constructed metrics. We use them but they are largely ad hoc.
———————–
They all tell you different things and none of them are conclusive on their own. However, if you HAD to pick one statistic I stand by that I would go with OPS+ over anything else.
“Matt Holliday Career OPS : .933″
4 out of 5 years in the majors, his number is the product of Coors field.
Cash overplayed his hand on Matsui. He even said at the beginning of the winter that DHs would be “begging” for jobs in this market.
He thought Matsui would have no suitors and would be without a team late into December, and he would have a chance to snatch him up if the Damon negotiations deteriorated.
Well now, Damon looks like he is out of the picture and we sign Nick Johnson rather than Matsui. Cash misread the market and thought Matsui will have to sing for his supper. Turns out not to be the case. Now he goes to sunny CA and we have “Glass Johnson” at DH, with no left fielder.
Just a miscalculation that might cost us dearly this season if we miss out on Damon or Holliday for LF. We are not better today than we were last week.
If Matt Holliday is really on their radar, then having Nick in the 2 hole may very well be a great move…..Although he runs like a 33 rpm record
And the Yankees average player age is actually less than the Sox. Just to point that out.
wheres erica? Hopefully she can start the GWNJWGOTDL game.
thats the “Guess When Nick Johnson Will Go On The DL” game..
my guess – March 26 and will return sometime in the middle of may – only to go back on early/mid june and never to be heard from again – sort of like marte except no postseason repreive for him because he’ll still be tending to his wrist/leg/back/gut/shoulder/(put your body part du jour here) injury come october/november
Matt Holliday Career OPS : .933?
4 out of 5 years in the majors, his number is the product of Coors field.
—–
And for half of the 5th year he was batting in front of the best player in baseball.
Dayn Perry is upset that the model franchise didn’t win the WS last year.
Next years class- Berkman-Switch hitter-perfect DH for are club. Adam Dunn-another big time DH. Just throwing these names out there, Jimmy Rollins and Jose Reyes are both free agents(never know). Carl Crawford-would bring alot of Speed to this team, Manny(hey you never know)SPs-Beckett (i dont think so but we did get Damon to leave)Matt Cain but hes got a vestin option i think, now names I think Yanks would love, Cliff Lee(takes Andys spot)Brandon Webb(would be great after CC. I think the Yanks are waiting and MAUER and VMart are free also. Yanks love next years class
Cash overplayed his hand on Matsui. He even said at the beginning of the winter that DHs would be “begging” for jobs in this market.
He thought Matsui would have no suitors and would be without a team late into December, and he would have a chance to snatch him up if the Damon negotiations deteriorated.
Well now, Damon looks like he is out of the picture and we sign Nick Johnson rather than Matsui. Cash misread the market and thought Matsui will have to sing for his supper. Turns out not to be the case. Now he goes to sunny CA and we have “Glass Johnson” at DH, with no left fielder.
Just a miscalculation that might cost us dearly this season if we miss out on Damon or Holliday for LF. We are not better today than we were last week.
——-
this was wrong when it was posted before and its wrong when you say it now.
Is this deal final?
Why is Damon asked for/providing a comment on this?
Wow. I am wording my posts really poorly for the points I am trying to get across. First I say OBP is most important and then I say OPS+ is most important. Yeah, going to have to take a break here because the thoughts are clearly not being expressed in the words I mean them to be
Nick-
that’s just about where I am at. Almost there. Probably at least 90 %.
you know I have to say I am embarrased by all of you Yankee fans, questioning Cashman and his moves when pretty much all of his moves for the past 2+ years have won us another World Series. For what, for letting go old DH with crappy knees granted I love Matsui and replacing him with Nick Johnson and replacing Damon with Granderson.
Are you kidding me? You guys are upset with that? that is just sad, after winning a WS this past year and the clear effort to improve this team, we all should be applauding Cash and Hal and co for going all out every year to give us a great team every year.
man johnny damon is on that KOOLAID. i dont understand why where making this desicision so soon though. lets wait and see what johnny damon decides and us this a tactic to make damon come up with a decision quicker.
Damon and Matsui are not injury risks the way Johnson is.
Damon and Matsui get banged up easily, but are able to play through it. They avoid the DL.
Johnson gets some of the strangest injuries that keep him out weeks.
So yes, Matsui, Damon, and NJ are all more or elss the same injury risk. Except the first 2 guys play through it and don’t miss time. NJ does. Who cares if Matsui gets his knees drained every day? He still goes out there and plays at a high level. More than we can see for “DL Nick”.
Man, if Damon’s calf gives and MAtsui’s knees give and Johnson is healthy all season…I will certainly get a chuckle out of that.
Somehow I cannot help but giggle when I hear leadfooted, overweight Nick Johnson referred to as “Nick the Quick’
God, coming to this place is like getting a bucket of cold water thrown on you. 80% of the board hated the Granderson trade, most seem to hate this as well.
I’m going to go to NYYfans or something to at least read some positive commentary about this signing rather than how we are doomed because we lost Matsui….
“Matt Holliday Career OPS : .933?
4 out of 5 years in the majors, his number is the product of Coors field.
As I’ve said already today, since 2004 Coor’s field is simply another good hitters park. Its not the same as it was when Dante Bichette made a career out of hitting there. It helped Holliday but not significantly more than that Cracker Jack box in Philly has helped Howard or the Ballpark in Arlington helped Teixera early in his career.
Damon and Matsui are not injury risks the way Johnson is.
Damon and Matsui get banged up easily, but are able to play through it. They avoid the DL.
Johnson gets some of the strangest injuries that keep him out weeks.
So yes, Matsui, Damon, and NJ are all more or elss the same injury risk. Except the first 2 guys play through it and don’t miss time. NJ does. Who cares if Matsui gets his knees drained every day? He still goes out there and plays at a high level. More than we can see for “DL Nick”.
——
This is absurd.
I’d like to see anyone “play through” a broken femur or wrist surgery.
It’s not like Johnson is benching himself with mild sprains.
Pirate,
Hideki Matsui Games Played:
2006: 51
2008: 93
Less words for me right now=more sense
“However, if you HAD to pick one statistic I stand by that I would go with OPS+ over anything else.”
That’s misguided. OPS+ is a extremely poorly constructed metric. It’s quite honestly awfully designed because it is so conceptually flawed. If you showed that stat to someone with expertise in methods through which valid metrics are developed they would laugh.
It’s use and value is largely ad hoc and convenience. We generally have a sense for what a “bad” “good” and “excellent” ops and ops+ levels are.
And on the whole it is very curious why in baseball people always want to “pick” one “best” metric.
I haven’t come across this very often – and no statistician i’ve worked with would make blanket statements like this.
Let’s just help the Rangers out and relieve them of their Josh Hamilton contract. There’s some protection for Arod!!!!
“And for half of the 5th year he was batting in front of the best player in baseball.”
Didn’t he hit behind Pujols
Nick D,
Could you define “full season” as it refers to NJ? Keep in mind he’s played 140 games only once in 8 years.
I would argue that NJ’s body is older than Matsui’s is. I would also argue that he is a worse baserunner and slower.
“Dayn Perry is upset that the model franchise didn’t win the WS last year.”
Dayn is upset that the model franchise isn’t really the model anymore – and perhaps never really was.
“And for half of the 5th year he was batting in front of the best player in baseball.”
Didn’t he hit behind Pujols
—–
Mis-spoken but still valid. When a great hitter hits in front of you it helps out as well.
Seems like the older timers on this blog hate the deal, but the newer guys love it…
I thought it would be the other way around…
and can we stop with the mauer is a free agent next year – the yankees stupidly drafted 8 catchers the last 3 or 4 years – why in the world would they sign mauer to a 300 million dollar contract when they have so many catchers ready to play in 2 – 3 years….if they are going to spend money it will be for cliff lee or a shortstop or a closer – not a catcher
“We just got worse offensively, period.”
And what some folks need to realize if true, this is not the end of the world.
The Yankees won their division by 8 games. They qualified for the playoffs by 16 games, and out scored THAT team by 131 runs (and only gave up 13 more runs).
Getting worse offensively doesn’t mean they aren’t still position to win their division and qualify for the play-offs.
Cliff-jumping Yankee fans have to realize the 2009 Yankees will never come up on the 2010 Yankees schedule.
They don’t have to compete with a former version of themsevles.
Nice article on Granderson:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12.....f=baseball
Drive 4-5 Somehow I cannot help but giggle when I hear leadfooted, overweight Nick Johnson referred to as “Nick the Quick…
you are obviously late to the joke
I’m out of here for the night.
Bottom line, Cashman started off the winter with a great move bringing in Granderson to play CF. It gave him the opportunity to really improve the team while not giving up any long term contracts ($6M/1 for Matsui, $21M/2 for Damon or less for Cameron).
It seems he chose Nick Johnson over Hideki Matsui. Anyone that watched baseball knows that Matsui is the better hitter. There is no statistic except for drawing walks that Johnson is better than Matsui at.
Matsui is a better hitter than Nick Johnson. Having said that, Nick Johnson can be a very good player for the Yankees if he can stay healthy.
The Yankees should still be the favorite to win the World Series. I still hope they don’t bring in Holliday because it will really clog the pay roll for the next 2-3 years, and I really hope they give Joba and Hughes spots in the rotation. No matter what they do, as long as Jeter, Teixeira, A-Rod, Posada, Cano, Granderson, and Swisher are ready to hit and CC, AJ, Mariano, Pettitte, Joba, and Hughes are ready to pitch, the Yankees are going to have a good team.
CB,
See my post above. I am fully rescinding most of my comments except for that I like the NJ signing. I am not making sense right now even to myself. Then again, I did just get back from a 4 hour law school exam that will have my brain fried until at least tomorrow morning.
Kepner asked for Damon’s comment on it because this signing probably signals the end for him.
Judging by Damon’s comment, sounds like he may know it as well.
Nick D,
Could you define “full season” as it refers to NJ? Keep in mind he’s played 140 games only once in 8 years.
—–
Something like “full season” to Hideki Matsui who has only played more than 100 games twice in the past 4 years.
“Mis-spoken but still valid. When a great hitter hits in front of you it helps out as well.”
Not nearly as much, using that as an argument against Holliday is really reaching anyway.
Nick Johnson will have a walk off walk in April, and get a pie from AJ. During the “pieing,” Nick will get a speck of whipped cream in his eye and go on the DL with conjunctivitis.
blake
December 17th, 2009 at 9:02 pm
Mark Teixera career OPS : .923
Matt Holliday Career OPS : .933
****************************************************
Matt Hooliday’s home/road splits ops wise
2005 home 1.002 / road .729
2006 home 1.132/ road .818
2007 home 1.157/ road .859
2008 home .997/ road .893
2009 home .982/ road .831
can you say creation of Coors Field
I’ve never heard of a Dayn Perry.
I have heard of a Dayn Buster Gammons Callis Stark.
I don’t believe in booing players ever (unless they are on the Red Sox), but I’m not above booing a GM. If Cash signs Nick Johnson, I’m going to boo him every time I see his face on TV or if someone even mentions his name.
Who knows what it will all look like when the final tapestry is revealed?
Letting Matsui go…
Signing Nick Johnson…
Perhaps the moves look odd in isolation, but there are still Christmas gifts to be unwrapped…
PittsburghYankeeFan
December 17th, 2009 at 9:17 pm
“Nick Johnson will have a walk off walk in April, and get a pie from AJ. During the “pieing,” Nick will get a speck of whipped cream in his eye and go on the DL with conjunctivitis”
Youre assuming he doesnt eat the pie before it hits him.
Winning the division by 8 games enabled us to rest our pitchers and make them fresh for October and enabled us to use the 3 man rotation.
Who knows what would have happened if we had to play till the final weekend?
That is another reason why, this year, Cashman needs to make sure we have 4 reliable starters. Selig already said the off-days are not going to be there as much.
Johnson can hit second, even though he lacks Damon’s speed. He gave up opportunities to keep playing the field (for San Francisco or Seattle) because he loved his time in New York and he sincerely (at least, I believe him) wants to win a World Series ring.
Next up for the Yankees: A starting pitcher, and they’ll probably let that market settle down. Ben Sheets is on their radar, but to reiterate what I’ve written here previously, I can’t see the Yankees engaging in a bidding war for Sheets.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/.....-1.1278117
Remember, they probably want Damon to land on his feet before going after Holliday if that’s the plan. Signing Nick, pushes Damon further toward landing somewhere else.
CB, thanks for the explanation – that makes a lot of sense.
Drive 4-5, I think Dayne Perry is living in a parallel universe. I think he also forgot that the Yankees got Granderson so that was a big lift……..yes, he’s so old. Tex is going to need a walker soon and CC needs a hoveraround to get around. Please, lol. Joba, Hughes and Robertson are practically wearing diapers.
sab
Why is it stupid that the Yankees drafted a lot of catchers ? LOL !
Winning the division by 8 games enabled us to rest our pitchers and make them fresh for October and enabled us to use the 3 man rotation.
Who knows what would have happened if we had to play till the final weekend?
That is another reason why, this year, Cashman needs to make sure we have 4 reliable starters. Selig already said the off-days are not going to be there as much.
——
You don’t design a team to win the division with a big lead early so you can rest your pitchers.
You build a team to go out and compete everyday assuming you will need all your games to make the playoffs.
It’s funny that some people thought it was a great idea for the Yankees to sign Cameron, good outfielder etc. Now that the Sox signed him, he is old and not so good.
Now that Matsui is with the Angels, he is damaged goods. Maybe he will also forget how to hit.
Matsui did a lot for the Yankees and I wish him well.
“It seems he chose Nick Johnson over Hideki Matsui. ”
I don’t think it’s too much more complicated than this.
Cash didn’t want Matsui back because he was older and had bad knees.
He picked johnson because he was younger and that youth made him think Johnson would be more productive next year.
Both are injury risks so let’s go with the younger guy.
I think that’s the sum total of it.
“I don’t believe in booing players ever (unless they are on the Red Sox), but I’m not above booing a GM. If Cash signs Nick Johnson, I’m going to boo him every time I see his face on TV or if someone even mentions his name.”
I’m sorry, I have to say something. This comment is ridiculous.
Considering NJ has no power, it is going to be awfully hard for him to get pied.
Unless he has a “walkoff walk”.
Nick Johnson will be eating a pregame meal at NYY Steak and cut his hand with a steak knife. Six weeks on the DL.
Nick-
Way to go> I like the tapestry analogy. I hope you have seen some of mine. My latest is “Behold, The Red Dragon”. Like it ?
Champ, I said Coors probably elevated him some but some guys just hit better at home. He did fine in st. Louis and I think he would be fine at Yankee stadium.
“they probably want Damon to land on his feet”
Oh no, he strained his calf when he landed.
SAB: really?? Montero has been deemed to big to be a catcher for his career, he could be a DH possbily who knows but to say that the Yankees are loaded at catcher and forget Mauer is a joke, if the Yanks have a shot at signing Mauer they have to, hes better than any Yankee catcher in the system, and its not like Mauer is on the downhill of his career. The Yankees would be a better team with Mauer behind the plate then anyone you can name. and if you read I said Cliff Lees name to replace Andy
MTU: Crouching Cashman, Hidden Holliday?
First of all, this is a good move for the Yankees. They need another bat and there is no denying that Nick Johnson is a good hitter. In fact, I think he will be better than most suspect.
He had power before his wrist injury. Stick him in Yankee Stadium with that short porch another year removed from the injury and I think he will surprise us with his power. Fantastic OBP, solid average, plus he’s athletic for a big guy. He’s not a speedster but he can run the bases.
On the other hand, this is an odd move for Nick and an odd move for the Yanks. He is basically going to be a full-time DH as he can’t play anything but first. It’d be nice if he could fill in at a corner OF spot but I don’t see that happening.
This move also basically means goodbye to Johnny Damon. The Yanks think of Damon as a half-time DH plus he’s another lefty, I don’t see him as a fit on this team any longer.
It’s odd from Nick’s standpoint because his goal right now should be proving he can play first and hit at a good level for a full season without getting injured. He’d be better served signing with a team like the Giants where he can play 150 games at first base and be an anchor in that lineup. That way he increases the value of future deals.
One more point, the only impact bat that’s still a fit on this team is Matt Holliday. I think the chances the Yankees sign him are still fairly high. However, even if they don’t get him I’d go to battle with the current lineup, Johnson is a really nice addition to the team.
Wake me up when NJ is as clutch as Matsui.
Red Sox people have always said Jeter and Matsui scare them more than anyone. Epstein was quoted saying that earlier this year as well.
We let a Red Sox killer go and one of the clutchest players in our franchise history. NJ is not even close to him in any facet.
i don’t really care if damon comes back or not – but would nick johnson be able to do what damon did in game #4 of the 2009 world series against the phillies? i really don’t think it’s a smart move to have to pinch run your #2 hitter in late innings – shouldn’t you be pinch running your slower middle of the lineup guys in late innings – isn’t your #2 hitter supposed to be like the 2nd or 3rd fastest runner in the lineup?
Laura – Can you tell I’m bitter?
Why boo Cashman ?
Sometimes I am so proud to be a yankee fan and sometimes I feel bad because a good number of Yankee fans truly are spoiled. We have a 200 million dollar payroll, a offense even with Nick Johnson that is the best in baseball, a good farm system, and some good young players, 27 Championships, and many of you still want to complain and cry because we can’t have every single player in baseball. Well I guess we should just get rid of the other teams and make the Yankees the only team in baseball.
goodness . Peyton Manning makes it look so easy. By the way i hope we get Sheets
So Nick Johnson is a done deal?
Nick-
This important (seriously). How much have you been following the various threads today ? After you answer I will tell you why I asked.
Nick Johnson will want to follow the Yankees Lohud blog to find out what fans are saying about him. He will get so interested in the back and forth that he develops carpal tunnel syndrome from hitting his refresh button. Four weeks on the DL.
I always like Nick Johnson and I am happy to see he’s back.
Hope he can stay healthy.
Anyone who boos a homegrown Yankee like Nick Johnson just for being the new DH isn’t much of a fan.
CB,
I think you are absolutely right about Cashman’s choice of Johnson over Matsui. They just don’t trust that Matsui’s legs will continue to hold up. Johnson has had injuries but they aren’t really related and the broken leg was a freak thing. Both guys are impact hitters, Johnson probably has a better shot at staying healthy.
Another interesting discussion – if you had to choose one stat to evaluate a hitter what would it be? I agree OPS+ isn’t the best. I’d probably go with wOBA.
Matsui did his job. but he’s 88 on bad knees. Time to move on . . And if he didn’t have such a great World Series ending game . .NOBODY WOULD CARE to see there beloved godzilla go west .
Get over it people
sab
A situation like that will most likely never happen again. You can’t bring up old baseball moments and then say that “oh wait Damon was in a situation in the 2009 World Series against Lidge can Johnson do that ?”
That is such a stupid point.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....olina.html
Davidoff acknowledges skepticism about the Yanks entering the season with Melky Cabrera manning left field every day, but points out that the team will be getting above-average production from enough other positions to make it work. As Davidoff speculated earlier tonight, it looks likely that the signing of Johnson will signal the end of Johnny Damon’s stint as a Yankee.
A starting pitcher is the Yankees’ next priority. Although they have interest
**Well, Sheets and Deutscherer are the only two viable SP options left. I understand not getting into a bidding war, but if Cash really wants the SP, he’s going to have to pony up the $$$ (well, Hal is, lol)
CB,
Do you think Damon can hold up for another season in LF? It is unlikely that Damon comes back now, but I still think there is a chance.
Phil-
just curious. Are YOU all in on Holliday ?
I’ll be honest, the Yanks never should have given up Nick Johnson. They should have kept Tino for another year, never signed Giambi and went with Johnson after Tino’s run.
SAB: really?? Montero has been deemed to big to be a catcher for his career, he could be a DH possbily who knows but to say that the Yankees are loaded at catcher and forget Mauer is a joke, if the Yanks have a shot at signing Mauer they have to, hes better than any Yankee catcher in the system, and its not like Mauer is on the downhill of his career. The Yankees would be a better team with Mauer behind the plate then anyone you can name. and if you read I said Cliff Lees name to replace Andy
——
I don’t disagree that the Yankees would be better with Mauer and Lee. I just disagree with you assumption that we wil be willing to spend the money to do that.
I feel like some people here won’t be satisfied until the Yankee line-up looks exactly like the an All Star Team starting line up with a 300 million dollar payroll.
Here guys, why don’t we aim for this lineup
Jeter SS
Texiera 1B
Arod 3B
Pujols DH
Braun OF
Mauer C
Utley 2B
Holliday OF
Sizemore OF
That should do the trick. Someone tell Cashman to get right on it.
Ben Sheets wins 86 loss 83 career era 3.72, sigh!
Jeremy
December 17th, 2009 at 9:21 pm
sab
Why is it stupid that the Yankees drafted a lot of catchers ? LOL !
——————————————————
because you can only play 1 – and the draft pick should have been used to get better infielders and or outfielders (which the yankees have none of in the minors) or used as trade bait (oh for i don’t know someone like halladay or cliff lee last year)which neither has happened…
a perfect example is the texas rangers – 2 years ago they had 4 can’t miss catchers – now they are trading them for a 2000 year old mike lowell – and the others have been washouts in the majors..
Jeremy,
I think youre simplifying things too much. Matsui is no All Star. Same for Damon. What they are is effective. What everyone wants is effective ballplayers. There’s nothing wrong with that.
This is only a good move if we get a LF’er.
Anyone who thinks Melky starting in left is a good idea is kidding themselves. He is a 4th outfielder. We are not better with this move unless we sign a LF’er as well. Signing Johnson alone doesn’t improve us.
Ian-
Bingo ! and his name is Holliday , and he is likely to be ours soon.
Honestly .. if Matsui doesn’t have that big game . Nobody is on here crying about Matsui.
On another note in the big picture for this off season I think this signing pretty much speaks volumes for how much stock you can put in Cashman’s public statements.
That would be around – zero.
How many times did we hear that DH isn’t a priority?
How many times have we heard about this mysterious “rotating/ revolving DH?” Cashman mentioned that over and over. And it was such a bad idea that you knew it just wasn’t likely to be true.
And it turns out it wasn’t true.
So these other things we keep hearing from him – budget, LF, etc. – big grain of salt.
We’re not going to know until names are on contracts.
sab,
catchers are very valuable on the market, they can net you a lot. The Yankees happen to be very deep at catcher which will come in handy at some point in a deal. Every team would kill for the kind of depth they have in their organization at catcher.
“Ben Sheets wins 86 loss 83 career era 3.72, sigh!”
And people think he is going to be some kind of stud in the AL East.
Joba will outperform him next year.
“He’d be better served signing with a team like the Giants where he can play 150 games at first base and be an anchor in that lineup. That way he increases the value of future deals.”
I’m not so sure about that because if he hits like Cashman thinks he can then he’ll be in line for a good pay raise next season. If I’m Nick I rather be in the Yankee lineup and ballpark than what the Giants can provide him.
People should be angrier that we didn’t offer Damon arbitration than the fact that we didn’t bring him back.
“**Well, Sheets and Deutscherer are the only two viable SP options left. I understand not getting into a bidding war, but if Cash really wants the SP, he’s going to have to pony up the $$$”
How do you know he’s not trying to trade for one?
I wonder if the Yankees are considering swooping in for one of the SP that the Braves are trying to unload.
CB-
I agree 100%.
Misdirection.
Disinformation.
And I think you know why.
gfd
December 17th, 2009 at 9:31 pm
“Ben Sheets wins 86 loss 83 career era 3.72, sigh!”
I hear ya. But his stuff can be nasty and that’s the hope.
Wanna know what’s funny? You hear all this talk about Clay Bucholz and then look at his numbers. He’s 12- 14 4.91 ERA with a 1.495 WHIP. He gave up 7 or more runs last year in 4 of his 16 starts. And Boston expect Adrian Gonzalez for him!
Nick D,
Do you think Lowe would be a good idea or no?
http://twitter.com/TylerKepner
Quote:
Johnny Damon on Nick Johnson deal: “I’m glad Nick gets to come back to a great organization. He will love the guys and the new stadium.”
Quote:
Johnny Damon on Yankees: “It’s part of baseball. Teams try to make moves in hopes to improve their club. I wish them all the best.”
__________________
*** He’s gone. The Yankees did want Damon back, but his interests were at cross purposes with theirs. He wants $$ and security – the Yankees need to build a team with an eye towards the future. I’m sure there are no hard feelings here…..it’s business
Sheets will get more money than Bedard, Duischester, Escobar, etc. because he is better than them, with less serious of an injury. He also isin’t a malcontent like Bedard.
Duischester missed the entire year with arm trouble and depression. He only started 1 year (2008), threw 141 innings, and ended up missing all of this year because of it.
Duchester is a reliever. Sheets is the only way to go. Unless Cash wants to poison the clubhouse with Bedard.
“On another note in the big picture for this off season I think this signing pretty much speaks volumes for how much stock you can put in Cashman’s public statements.”
I’ve been saying that forever. Cashman can tell me to my face that he’s not on Holliday or Sheets and I wouldn’t believe him. The same with Hal Steinbrenner. He’s like Cashman when it comes to revealing his real thoughts.
If there is a Holliday signing, who gets traded? Is Nick Swisher the odd man out?
Could they trade some combination of Swisher/Gardner and some minor league pitchers for a number 2 or 3 starter?
I also want to say this:
As much as I don’t think the Yankees SHOULD get Holliday and I don’t think they will I absolutely cannot throw away the chance that Cashman is using misdirection. I am in no way counting us out for a “Holliday” suprise but I both hope and think that it won’t happen.
Damon just THINKS he’s gone. Cashman is mysterious, though.
Drive 4-5
No I’m making a good point. The Yankees have the best offense in baseball and all I hear from many of you is crying.
This is why a good number of fans hate Yankee fans because some feel that every great player belongs with the Yankees. Some of you guys are just too much and you should be proud that you are fans of the best organization in sports instead of crying and complaining all day long.
Why is everyone assuming that Damon is gone, when we still have a glaring hole in LF?
We didn’t sign a left fielder, folks. We signed a DH. We still need a left fielder and there are only 2 on the market— Holliday and Damon.
With Johnson’s bat, the Yanks will be OK with come combination of Melky, Gardner, and Hoffman playing LF. (Although when Gardner plays, he’ll be in CF and Granderson in RF.)
The Yanks might have room to keep Melky, Gardner, and Hoffman, depending on how many catchers and pitchers they want to carry. I wish one of them could play 3B, though. If they keep Melky and Hoffman, they can have an outfield of all righties or all lefties if they want to.
MTU,
it just looks to me like that’s what’s on the way. I don’t if it’s a 10% chance, a 50% chance, or a 0% chance. Just the way the market has worked this week, makes me think that as soon as we knew that we couldn’t get Halladay, we changed our plan and decided to go for an upgrade in left.
Nick D,
Do you think Lowe would be a good idea or no?
—-
I think he would pitch well enough for the roll he would have to fill. I’m not sure what he would cost in terms of talent to aquire him either. Hes got quite a bit of money and time left on his contract as well which might be at odds with the yanks philosophy right now.
jeremy – i wasn’t putting nick johnson in THAT particular situation – all i was saying is nick johnson won’t be able to provide that type of play….ever…so even if i don’t care if damon returns i would take damon over johnson in a heartbeat for the #2 hitter..
flash – it doesn’t matter how valuable they are if they don’t actually trade some of their catchers like now – before they find out that they aren’t going to be catchers in the majors or just not good players – i used the texas rangers as an example – they had 4 can’t miss catchers 2 years go – now they have 2 borderline average catchers on their team, one they traded to detroit for no one and another they are tarding for a broken down mike lowell
Nick loved NY and wanted a chance at a ring – he gave up maybe better opportunities to come here – that’s kind of nice.
Cashman needs to get another starter.
Last year-Joba rules
This year- Hughes rules
Sounds like goodbye to me.
Damon tells Kepner “It’s part of baseball. Teams try to make moves in hopes to improve their club. I wish them all the best.”
here is the proper way to look at the recent moves..
Cash replaced Matsui’s power and production in the middle of our lineup with Grandy as he will hit 5th or sixth in Matsui’s old hood.
He replaced Damon’s bat with Nick Johnson’s in the 2 hole. If viewed this way the proper way when looking at the offense then the only negative is when we face a LH pitcher if Grandy doesn’t improve in that area. aside from that Grandy has just as much if not slightly more power as Matsui and NJ in the #2 hole is an upgrade to Damon as damon’s career obp is .355 and NJ is .402. NJ also has a higher career slg % than Damon and I’m confident his power will return.
Damon’s obp last season was .365 and NJ’s was .426….that’s a tremendous upgrade in front of Tex and ARod. Jeter will also probably see an uptick in his .obp with NJ hitting behind him.
Cash is kidding himself if he thinks it is OK to start Melky in left next year.
Ray-
Could be Melky. Could be Gardener. Might be neither if Gardener is sent down. Not swisher IMO. It would depend on what Cash could get for either and the teams needs.
Like Davidoff, I’m skeptical that Melky will be our LF. I doubt Holliday will, so I have no clue what other options are out there, but I just don’t think Cash will go into the season with Melky in LF
If you guys want to see some good volleyball, turn to ESPN2. The UH women are trying to break Penn State’s 100 game win streak and get into the NCAA finals. Hawaii up 1-0. The Kaaihue sister is the libero for UH. Please cheer for UH (seeded 12, but ranked #3 in the country).
Cash is kidding himself if he thinks it is OK to start Melky in left next year.
—–
Why? Becasue god forbid we don’t have an all-star in left?
With the above-average production around the diamond we would be FINE if we started Melky in left.
If we can win with Melky in center we can win with him in left.
Phil, Laura was talking about booing Cashman…….
“Nick loved NY and wanted a chance at a ring – he gave up maybe better opportunities to come here – that’s kind of nice.”
Let’s remember that Nick played in the 2003 WS and was pretty good. He’s a second generation MLB player that knows he has a good chance of doing so next season while reestablishing his position in next year’s free agent market.
Johnny Damon on Nick Johnson deal:
“I’m glad Nick gets to come back to a great organization.
He will love the guys and the new stadium.”
——————————————–
whatever Johnny. You never even played with Nick
MTU: hmmmmm… I would say not following too closely/at all during the morning (PST) and following farely closely in the afternoon and early evening… while doing other stuff too.
Phil-
I feel much more strongly than that. Almost certain. Of course, I have had help in forming my hypothesis.
“here is the proper way to look at the recent moves..”
You really can’t see the full result of these moves until we see the final roster. Cashman isn’t done with his position players and we know he’s going to get another pitcher.
It was a no-brainer for him to sign here, even if he sacrificed a couple million dollars in doing-so.
He gets to sign with a team that has a stacked lineup where he will get many RBI/run scoring opportunities, and a ballpark that is conducive to his lefty swing. If his homers return, he is going to put up monster numbers here and score a nice multi-year deal next year.
Him going to San Francisco or Seattle would have made no sense. Big ballparks and awful lineups. His numbers would not look good there. He also gets a chance to win a ring to boot.
Hitters looking for 1 yr deals will always come here. Pitchers are a different story… it behooves them to go to the weaker division/league on 1 yr deals.
MTU,
if there’s a Holliday signing they’re probably going to move someone’s salary. It may very well be Melky, although they could have just non tendered him if that were the case.
I don’t see how they can sign Holliday and another pitcher however unless some salary moves somewhere.
If the Yankees do sign Matt Holliday I see them trading either Melky or Gardner. Probably Gardner. Why trade Swisher? He fits in perfectly at RF. He makes his share of mistakes (well maybe more than his share) but his range is highly underrated. He also fits in well with this team’s philosophy at the plate.
CB – you’re 9:33 post was one of the smartest ones today.
Why should Cash disclose his strategy and/or negotiatioins in public? What would he gain by that? I suspect that this is actually one of the reasons why Cash is so well respected by those in the industry – that he keeps confidences well.
We will only know a fraction of what he is working on, that is, what deals actually come to fruition. People should stop being so naive to take what he says or doesn’t say publicly about strategy/negotiations at face value.
sab
You’re right. Damon is the only one who could do that play. Nick Johnson couldn’t.
that’s interesting Nick. Then you might not have seen what I have seen, and it might just push you over the edge so to speak with respect to the “tapestry”. By the way, do you like detective stories ?
The reason I say Damon is gone is because it’s obvious that he wants what he wants……which is fine, but then he and the Yankees are no longer good matches. The Yankees need to do what is best for their team and Damon has to do what’s best for him…….He’s not going to cave. If he does, fine……but I’d be shocked.
Dee, I don’t see Cash trading for a good SP – he’d have to deal some of our prospects and I’m not sure he’d do that for a non-elite pitcher. We’ll see…….
sab
I’ve gotta tell you your observations are so off that i get the feeling that you just started watching baseball last week and really don’t understand the game.
the Yanks have a 39yr old catcher who is in his last 2yrs before retirement.
Their #1 prospect who will be the #1 or #2 prospect in the entire sport when the season starts is 1yr away from his debut.
Over the last 5yrs of his career the Yanks will have paid Posada 63mil and over the next 5yrs Montero will outproduce what Posada has done for about 20mil give or take
Why on earth would they trade him now.
Also the tremendous catching depth in the system is from kids that were signed in the last 18mos…do you really think they are trading them now? really?
Tyler Kepner says, he thought the Yankees would just give the DH job to Juan Miranda.
I understand why people don’t want Melky in LF but don’t forget, he was our starter in CF for most of last year. Granderson more than duplicates Damon’s production so I think this team could get by with Melky.
However, I simply don’t get the argument that we don’t need an all-star at every position. Obviously we don’t but why would it be a bad thing if we did have that situation? The Yanks will always try to get better so why should the fans want them to get good players?
OK Ray. That wouldn’t be a problem or interefere with things IMO. I am not sure it is required but it wouldn’t hurt.
Craw, honestly – I totally forgot about that. 2003 for me was a lifetime ago……It’s been ages since I’ve thought of NJ, to be honest. I just know that I loved the guy – our farm system sucked and the kid could flat out hit.
the melky hating on here is increadible. how could the yankees possibly go into the season with melky in the lineup? easy, they did it last year and that went pretty well. get over it, there’s no holliday this offseason, and considering that the guy wants 8 years, there shouldnt be. melky will be fine
“Anyone who thinks Melky starting in left is a good idea is kidding themselves. He is a 4th outfielder.”
People should be embarrassed how often they repeat this because they heard someone else say it and it sounded right and appealing to them at the time.
If you REALLY look at outfielders with enough qualifier at bats, and pick whatever stat suits your fancy (OPS, WAR, Replacement) Cabrera is ranked anywhere from 45-50 ish.
Doesn’t sound to impressive, right?
But consider on any given full schedule night in baseball, teams send 90 starting outfielders onto the fields.
So I want someone to tell me if outfielders 60-90 are “3rd” outfielders (do the math), then in what universe does a guy who lands in the middle of the pack qualify at a 4th outfielder?
“I don’t believe in booing players ever (unless they are on the Red Sox), but I’m not above booing a GM. If Cash signs Nick Johnson, I’m going to boo him every time I see his face on TV or if someone even mentions his name”
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whatever makes you feel better
Joe, I’m naive – and that’s not going to change, lol. I’d rather be naive and trusting then skeptical – a leopard doesn’t change his spots, so at 38, I am who I am. I do believe the stories – I probably shouldn’t, lol. What I do know is that Cash is smart and shrewd and inscrutable. I always fall for whatever he’s trying to sell, lol
“One more point, the only impact bat that’s still a fit on this team is Matt Holliday.”
Yep. The optimist in me hopes that the Yankees went for a DH who profiles as #2 instead of a #5 because they are planning on adding a LF who can hit fifth. Like others have mentioned, maybe this will also expedite Damon’s landing with another team and clear the way for his agent to work with Cash on fitting Holliday for pinstripes.
Cloak & Dagger?
Awesome. A .400 + OBP guy in front of Teix and A-rod. All that is left is Ben Sheets and the Yankees fill two holes that they needed for the price that Damon was asking for.
The Yankees with NJ can Carry Melky in the lineup. For pete’s sake the Yankees lineup is by far a lot better than the Red Sox lineup.
Nick-
I ask myself one other question about the Holliday situation.
Is that truly a light at the end of the tunnel that I think I am seeing or is it an oncoming train ?
Should know soon.
From Feinsand:
Johnson’s arrival would mean the end of Johnny Damon’s time in pinstripes. Barring a late-night change of heart by Damon to take a two-year deal on the Yankees’ terms, it seems like the Yankees were ready to move on without him.
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Basically Damon decided to leave. Cash wanted him back, he made him a fair offer and he didn’t want it. He thought he could do better than a 2 year deal worth about $18m. He and Boras(like usual) are going to be wrong.
“However, I simply don’t get the argument that we don’t need an all-star at every position. Obviously we don’t but why would it be a bad thing if we did have that situation? The Yanks will always try to get better so why should the fans want them to get good players?”
I don’t think people who argue that are responding to the intellectual argument you site. I think you’ll find most people are responding to the fans who seem to think the Yankees are in trouble or have a serious problem with a middle of the road starter like Cabrera in the starting line-up.
Uncle-
Care to join ?
Question for everyone…
Damon/Cabrera/Swisher outfield
Granderson/Cabrera/Swisher outfield.
Is there a significant different offensively between the two?
And if not, what the hell difference does it make offensively which of the 3 outfield positions they happen to play?
Does the outfield get magically better offensively by making Cabrera run out to centerfield and Granderson left field in the defensive have of the inning?
Color me confused…
MTU
December 17th, 2009 at 9:57 pm
Uncle-
Care to join ?
I’m interested and confused. Is Locke somehow involed with the Holliday Damon DH LF Boras Nexus?
Or is this about Carole King?
champ809
December 17th, 2009 at 9:48 pm
sab
I’ve gotta tell you your observations are so off that i get the feeling that you just started watching baseball last week and really don’t understand the game.
the Yanks have a 39yr old catcher who is in his last 2yrs before retirement.
Their #1 prospect who will be the #1 or #2 prospect in the entire sport when the season starts is 1yr away from his debut.
Over the last 5yrs of his career the Yanks will have paid Posada 63mil and over the next 5yrs Montero will outproduce what Posada has done for about 20mil give or take
Why on earth would they trade him now.
Also the tremendous catching depth in the system is from kids that were signed in the last 18mos…do you really think they are trading them now? really?
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champ – maybe your reading comprehension is what needs a little sprucing up – i never NOT ONCE mentioned montero as the person who should have gotten traded i said they have 8 catchers and haven’t traded any of them yet- and from what i’ve read montero doesn’t even project to stay at catcher anyway (do YOU follow baseball?)- so there goes your theory on how long i’ve been following baseball
what i said was 1)they won’t be able to play all 8 at catcher and 2) its best they trade some of them now so next year when they realize gary sanchez (or whomever)either is too slow or too fat to catch or plain sucks they’ll then have a stiff on their hands that no one wants or they have to trade him for a 2000 year old third baseman who can’t walk without a wheelchair..see the texas rangers from 2 years ago and how “deep” their cathers were and where they are now..
jeremy, sab
sorry to break it to you, but the yankees have been aware of that play from the WS that damon worked for years. jeter separated his shoulder in the opening week of the season a few years back making the same play with giambi at the plate (the catcher covered and smashed jeter’s shoulder)
the fact is that if the defense is awake, someone is supposed to get there and cover but in the WS they didn’t.
MTU: not a huge reader of detective stories… I did enjoy “The Moonstone”… big fan of Dashiell Hammett…
The hamstring that didn’t bark?
stuckey, the offense with damon is better but not by that much. and that is offset by the fact that the defense with damon is considerably worse, especially in coming years.
New Thread>>>
Uncle, I hope to continue this on the new thread. And to answer your question about the “Red Dragon” I was referring to a transformation. That is the connection.
Braves want a right-handed power hitter and want to unload Lowe’s contract. He would not be a good fit in the AL East.
Someone earlier posted had we kept Tino for one more year and then had Nick Johnson we wouldn’t have needed Giambi, who IMO, was a terrible signing at a terrible contract. Maybe we’d still have Juan Rivera, who was also in that deal for Vasquez.
I’m not sold on Nick Johnson batting second-gets a walk, but no speed, so when Tex or A-Rod doubles, he has no chance to score from 1st. As things stand now, I would think Granderson bats second, especially against righthanders.
I really don’t see another team in the AL who will need a LF at the money and years Damon is asking for, and the only team looking for a DH at present is the Rangers-who only want to spend 3M if Lowell can pass his medical exam.
Holliday would be a really nice present, but don’t expect him to come to the Yankees and tie us up on another long, expensive contract.
We need to find pitching 1st.
Nick-
if you would like to continue this please move over to the new thread.
i don’t like it at all.
Swishers Time as a Yankee is over …
Sad!
Derek Lowe will come to the Bronx …
Sad as well !
I really think Cashman has a deal with the Braves or why does he sign Nick Johnson??
Johnson for Matsui is a bad move, period!
Don’t like this move at all. We replace a OBP guy with power and replace him with a OBP guy with no power for the same price.