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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Changes to the opening series in Boston

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 18, 2009 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Here are a few lingering notes from the past 24 hours or so, starting with some changes to next year’s schedule.

Because the Yankees and Red Sox are playing the season opener at Fenway, ESPN2 wants to televise the game. Because ESPN2 wants to televise the game, the game is being played on a Sunday night at 8 p.m. Because it’s being played on a Sunday night at 8 p.m., the Red Sox have shifted the schedule for the rest of the three-game series.

Game 1 will be Sunday, April 4, at 8 p.m.
Game 2, originally scheduled for Wednesday, will be played on Tuesday, April 6, at 7:10 p.m.
Game 3, originally scheduled for Thursday, will be played Wednesday, April 7, at 7:10 p.m.
Monday, April 5, and Thursday, April 8, will now be off days for both teams.

———

MLB.com has announced it’s This Year in Baseball Awards, chosen through online voting.

· Hitter of the Year: Joe Mauer, Minnesota Twins (.365, 28 HR, 96 RBIs)
· Starting Pitcher of the Year: Zack Greinke, Kansas City Royals (16-8, 2.16 ERA, 242 Ks)
· Closer of the Year: Mariano Rivera, New York Yankees (44 SV, 1.76 ERA)
· Setup Man of the Year: Jeremy Affeldt, San Francisco Giants (74 G, 1.73 ERA)
· Rookie of the Year: J.A. Happ, Philadelphia Phillies (12-4, 2.93 ERA)
· Manager of the Year: Jim Tracy, Colorado Rockies (92-70, NL Wild Card)
· Executive of the Year: Ruben Amaro Jr., Philadelphia Phillies (93-69, NL East champs)
· Defensive Player of the Year: Jacoby Ellsbury, Boston Red Sox (.994 FPCT)
· Unsung Star of the Year: Jayson Werth, Philadelphia Phillies (36 HR, 99 RBIs, 20 SB)
· Performance of the Year: Mark Buehrle, Chicago White Sox (Perfect game, 7/23)
· Play of the Year: Dewayne Wise, Chicago White Sox (Catch preserved perfect game, 7/23)
· Moment of the Year: Derek Jeter, New York Yankees (Passed Gehrig for NYY hits, 9/11)
· Postseason Moment of the Year: Johnny Damon, New York Yankees (WS Game 4)
· Oddity of the Year: Phillies fanatic (Dad’s catch thrown back by daughter, 9/15)

A special, first-ever X-Factor of the Year was awarded to former Los Angeles Dodgers outfielder Juan Pierre through a media-only vote by MLB.com editors, reporters and multimedia personnel. In 2010, this category will be added to the overall voting process.

———

Major League Baseball and the Major League Baseball Players Association announced that Tim Maxey has been named the sport’s Joint Strength and Conditioning Coordinator, a new position whose duties will focus on providing guidance to and identifying best practices for Clubs and Players on issues involving conditioning, fitness, nutrition and other related subjects.

Maxey, who completed his seventh season as Major League Strength and Conditioning Coach of the Cleveland Indians in 2009, will be a resource to Major League Club staff and Players in all areas pertaining to strength and conditioning, including the development of educational programs and assisting with the establishment of industry-wide initiatives. He will visit each Club during 2010 Spring Training.

———

The Baseball Assistance Team (B.A.T.) will celebrate former winners of the Most Valuable Player (MVP) Award as it hosts its 21st annual “Going to Bat for B.A.T. Dinner” on January 26 at the New York Marriott Marquis Hotel. Founded in 1986, B.A.T. is dedicated to assisting members of the “Baseball Family” through financial grants, healthcare programs and rehabilitative counseling. More than $19 million in grants have been awarded to date, benefiting more than 2,400 members of the “Baseball Family.”

Hall of Famer, two-time MVP Winner and ESPN broadcaster Joe Morgan and Baltimore Orioles broadcaster and B.A.T. Board Member Gary Thorne will emcee the event. St. Louis Cardinals’ Hall of Fame pitcher Bob Gibson will again serve as the Dinner Chairman. Members of the National Baseball Hall of Fame and MVP winners that are scheduled to attend include Whitey Ford, Robin Yount, Fred Lynn, Denny McLain and Al Rosen.

The World Champion New York Yankees and the Houston Astros will be recognized as the recipients of the inaugural Bobby Murcer Award. Earlier this year, B.A.T. established this Award in honor of the late B.A.T. Chairman, MLB All-Star and Yankees legend. The Award is presented to the team in both the American League and National League whose players contribute the most amount of money to B.A.T. through the B.A.T. Payroll Deduction Program that year.

In addition to former MVP winners, more than 120 players are expected to attend, including Hall of Famers Luis Aparicio, Orlando Cepeda, Juan Marichal and Robin Roberts. Popular former New York players Keith Hernandez, Graig Nettles and Yankees Manager Joe Girardi will also be in attendance.

B.A.T. was founded by former Commissioner Peter Ueberroth, a group of former players and Major League Baseball. In addition to assisting ex-Major League players, B.A.T. also offers support to former Major League managers, coaches, scouts, umpires, athletic trainers, front office personnel, Minor League players, Negro League players, players from the Women’s Professional Baseball League, spouses and children. All aid provided by B.A.T. is strictly confidential, allowing those in the need to receive help discreetly.

For more information about B.A.T., to purchase tickets for the Dinner or to make a donation please visit: http://www.baseballassistanceteam.com.

Comments

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359 Responses to “Changes to the opening series in Boston”

  1. CraftyLefty December 18th, 2009 at 10:06 pm

    What could be on ESPN that night to bump the game to ESPN2?

  2. Phil December 18th, 2009 at 10:11 pm

    Jacoby Ellsbury is the defensive player of the year? In baseball? Bahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

  3. Joe I. December 18th, 2009 at 10:14 pm

    Opening night is on ESPN 2 because ESPN will be airing the NCAA women’s basketball final four. Another great job by Bud Selig to have opening night take a back seat to women’s college basketball.

  4. Phil December 18th, 2009 at 10:14 pm

    Bobby Murcer was big into B.A.T.

  5. m December 18th, 2009 at 10:18 pm

    Thanks for the info, Chad.

    So the opener was originally scheduled for mon? Or did they schedule two days between the 1st & 2nd game?

    And why do we start on the road? At Fenway?

    Phil,

    Can you really get Holliday for half the price? In either AAV or total contract? I don’t think so, even with the backloading finaggling that was being discussed. But if you can, then sign me up.

  6. Betsy - high on pie December 18th, 2009 at 10:18 pm

    SJ’s 10:04 post is perfect………..

    At some point, Holliday is going to sign, so Cash can’t just wait and wait and wait.

  7. Sey December 18th, 2009 at 10:20 pm

    Isn’t early April the NCAA tourney?

    Maybe ESPN is televising some game or bracket show or something.

  8. crawdaddy December 18th, 2009 at 10:21 pm

    “Jacoby Ellsbury is the defensive player of the year? In baseball?”

    Right, you’ve got to be kidding me.

  9. Phil December 18th, 2009 at 10:21 pm

    m,

    for the contract he’s been offered 5/80 by the Cards. That’s their standing offer. Last year Tex got over 180. We can get Holliday for 5/85 or 90 or somewhere in between and we’ll have another Tex like player, not yet 30, to help us bridge the gap between the “core four” getting old and the farm starting to produce true Yankees again. I think it’s important for the next few years that we get him.

  10. Yankee Trader December 18th, 2009 at 10:23 pm

    Not only do we start at Fenway, we finish the season with a 3 game series at Fenway.

  11. blake December 18th, 2009 at 10:24 pm

    “At some point, Holliday is going to sign, so Cash can’t just wait and wait and wait.”

    The Yankees are waiting for everyone to place their max bid, and then they will decide if they want to top the best offer.

  12. Betsy - high on pie December 18th, 2009 at 10:27 pm

    Boy, Jon Heyman really doesn’t like the signing of NJ. He harps on the fact that he “clogs the bases”, he doesn’t hit HRs and he’s not that young anymore………I’m sorry I started listening. Then Francesca said that we are going to wait for 3 run HRs and Heyman agreed, saying that Damon was a perfect fit, Granderson is HR hitter despite his speed and he Ks a lot. So basically, the team is slower and more of a one-dimensional offense

    Talk about cold water……..shiver.

  13. crawdaddy December 18th, 2009 at 10:28 pm

    Betsy,

    Which agent does Heyman shill for?

  14. Chase December 18th, 2009 at 10:29 pm

    Holliday isn’t going to be a yankee

  15. Phil December 18th, 2009 at 10:30 pm

    Heyman is a Boras functionary.

  16. Phil December 18th, 2009 at 10:30 pm

    Chase,

    he wants to be.

  17. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 18th, 2009 at 10:31 pm

    Heyman is just upset that his boyfriend did not get his % from the Yankees

  18. Bronx Jeers December 18th, 2009 at 10:31 pm

    All our games are at Fenway next season.

    Selig’s “looking into it”.

    There might be another comittee forming.

    Remdog and Bobby Orr will chair it.

  19. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 18th, 2009 at 10:31 pm

    Ha,

    3 comments regarding the same thing on Boras and Heyman

  20. Jay December 18th, 2009 at 10:31 pm

    Like I said yesterday…. don’t expect this signing to be received warmly in the media.

    Going to be Yankee bashing all winter talking about how the Sox have overtaken us and our off-season moves were mistakes.

  21. crawdaddy December 18th, 2009 at 10:32 pm

    I actually think Granderson is going to run more with the Yankees.

  22. CB December 18th, 2009 at 10:32 pm

    ” The other night I believe CB gave Losta chance to “authenticate ” himself, and to the best of my recollection I do not believe he passed.

    I may be wrong about that CB might be able to say.”

    Just for clarification – I would not say that I was trying to authenticate Lost in Holliday in any significant fashion nor would I say that he didn’t “pass.”

    I misremembered the same issue he couldn’t recollect so there went that.

    Lost-in-Texas was a very good poster last year and people generally didn’t pay much attention to him. That’s why I was interested in knowing if they were the same person with different handles.

  23. Ham Fighters....laughing at all the melky haters! December 18th, 2009 at 10:33 pm

    im sorry, i love johnny damon, but the degradation of his game over the last 2 years is pretty scary. he was a decent CF in 2007, a poor one in 08 and a really poor LF in 09. he also lost all his baserunning speed. i couldnt see investing $20M for 2 more years, let alone the $25M or more he was asking. he’s a great guy with a high baseball iq but i think his all-out style is really coming back to hurt him now.

    bye johnny, and thanks a ton and i hope i’m wrong, but i dont think i am.

  24. crawdaddy December 18th, 2009 at 10:33 pm

    “Like I said yesterday…. don’t expect this signing to be received warmly in the media.

    Going to be Yankee bashing all winter talking about how the Sox have overtaken us and our off-season moves were mistakes.”

    You might right, but they still have to play the games.

  25. Betsy - high on pie December 18th, 2009 at 10:34 pm

    Oh, lol……….that’s true.

    I don’t get it – did Heyman and Boras just become friends and so Heyman is his mouthpiece?

  26. Betsy - high on pie December 18th, 2009 at 10:35 pm

    If that’s the case, then it would be a shame for the Yankees not to sign a player who does want to play for them……

  27. Phil December 18th, 2009 at 10:37 pm

    Betsy,

    I believe Heyman gets info from the Boras Org. and in exchange he takes up for their client interests. But who knows? It could be far darker and more mysterious than that.

  28. CB December 18th, 2009 at 10:37 pm

    SJ,

    Interesting stuff on Johnny from the last thread. I thought that whole 2/20 business was rather odd given when it was leaked.

    The whole situation is just strange. It seems implausible to see how Damon could be demanding an AAV of $13M.

    He was a very good signing for the team – Boston really misread where his skill set stood. They let him go and went with Coco Crisp instead.

    Very good example of how the “cheaper” player that give you more contract flexibility can turn out to be much more expensive when you consider opportunity cost and value.

    Good luck to Johnny.

  29. Bill December 18th, 2009 at 10:38 pm

    Sometimes, it doesn’t even feel like we are the World Champs. Most of the talk this winter has been about the mess that is the Mets and how the Sox are so formidable and going to get every player (Beltre/Gonzalez, etc.). Only talk about us has been negative (How Granderson can’t hit lefties/strikes out, NJ bashing, how our rotation sucks, etc.)

  30. Phil December 18th, 2009 at 10:38 pm

    I think this Lost is the same as last year’s Lost. The writing is the same.

  31. Betsy - high on pie December 18th, 2009 at 10:38 pm

    Sounds like Oliver Stone should make a movie….Conspiracy Theory 2: Heyman’s Revenge

  32. Betsy - high on pie December 18th, 2009 at 10:39 pm

    I always assumed that this Lost is the same as the other Lost – the handles were too similar and he/she sounded the same.

  33. Lost in Holliday-in December 18th, 2009 at 10:42 pm

    Damon:

    Damon is well liked by the entire org but Boras thought the Yankees were bluffing and lost. Damon’s first choice was always the Yankees but he really didn’t think the purse strings were as tight as they appear now. You really can’t blame him because they have never been — or appeared to be — this tight. Sadly, Damon is the one who had to find out for everybody, that the yankees are changing the way they do business.

    (Of course, for the right player that may never change)

    Boras’s over-evaluation of the market cost Damon a job. Plain and simple.

    Holliday:

    Maybe Boras realized that the Yankees are serious after what happened with Damon. Maybe he still thinks they are bluffing.. I doubt it.

    It’s up to him to approach Cash with realistic figures and see if a deal can be had. If not, then the Yankees will continue the direction they are in.

    As I said last night more regarding Holliday is coming out by this weekend.

    Maybe we’ll learn just how bad he wanted to play in the bronx, or didn’t.

  34. CB December 18th, 2009 at 10:43 pm

    Phil,

    That’s my sense as well. The style’s very similar. You can see that as Lost-in-Holliday-in has posted more.

    He’s a good poster about baseball and the team as a whole outside of any information he might have. He should keep posting and do so more often.

  35. Ed H. December 18th, 2009 at 10:43 pm

    Who does Lost say that he is? What access to info does he claim?

  36. JoeyA December 18th, 2009 at 10:44 pm

    Looks like Damon just lost about $2-3M per year, since, I would imagine, teams would recognize Damon’s offensive performance was directly tied to NYS.

  37. Rose December 18th, 2009 at 10:45 pm

    The best news of the off-season is Alex doesn’t need surgery.

  38. Ed H. December 18th, 2009 at 10:46 pm

    Sorry, Lost, I didn’t know you were here when I wrote my post. Let me now address the question to you, please. I missed your original introductory posts.

  39. CB December 18th, 2009 at 10:47 pm

    “Sadly, Damon is the one who had to find out for everybody, that the yankees are changing the way they do business.”

    I thought that they demonstrated that pretty clearly with Abreu last year. Their refusal to offer Abreu arb was pretty much them saying they weren’t going to chance paying out at the same (or higher) AAV as what abreu was getting. It also showed the valuation they were placing on defense – not one of Johnny’s strong points, clearly.

    If Johnny and Boras didn’t see that lesson, well, that’s hard to believe.

  40. Sacrificefly December 18th, 2009 at 10:47 pm

    As far as starting pitchers. Mariners anounced ther willing to trade Brandon Morrow looking for a corner infielder/dh type. Maybe Miranda, Mcalister. What do you think it would take?

  41. Phil December 18th, 2009 at 10:49 pm

    I think Matsui and Damon didn’t think Cash could possibly be talking about them when he said “younger and more athletic” but now it’s clear he was.

  42. Betsy - high on pie December 18th, 2009 at 10:52 pm

    I’m trying not to feel a bit badly for Damon, but I can’t help it……His comment about how the Yankees are the best organization he’s been with was heartfelt and I know he loved it here. It doesn’t change how I feel about him not going with his feelings and instead following Boras – that’s his problem. It’s just a shame that this is what it came to.

  43. Lost in Holliday-in December 18th, 2009 at 10:53 pm

    CB:

    There was a very different sentiment about the character of each player. Plus, you can make the case that the Yankees had no choice with Bobby because they had a replacement recently acquired in Xavier Nady.

  44. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 18th, 2009 at 10:53 pm

    Betsy,

    Go look at Johnny’s comments his last year in Boston.

  45. Rose December 18th, 2009 at 10:53 pm

    I think the Yankees had no intention of signing Matsui, but would have signed Damon if they could have reached a reasonable agreement.

  46. Phil December 18th, 2009 at 10:54 pm

    btw, it’s always hard to say goodbye to guys like Matsui and Damon who came through so many times for the team over the years and over the championship run. Matsui’s found a team with a good owner, and I hope Johnny does as well.

  47. Betsy - high on pie December 18th, 2009 at 10:54 pm

    Also, the ultimatum Arn Tellem gave to Cash wasn’t appealing – I don’t like ultimatums (unless, for instance, the Yankees had made an offer to Damon – as an example- and said you have such and such time to take it or it’s off the table). Cash never gave an ultimatum to CC (we need an answer NOW)…and I think CC appreciated it (in fact, I know he said that he did……..). Cash was not about to rush CC into making a career-altering decision, one that affected not just CC, but his family as well.

  48. Lost in Holliday-in December 18th, 2009 at 10:54 pm

    Ed H:

    I only claim to be an anonymous drone.

  49. Betsy - high on pie December 18th, 2009 at 10:55 pm

    Let’s Go Yankees, didn’t Damon part on bad terms with the Sox?

  50. Phil December 18th, 2009 at 10:56 pm

    Arn Tellem gave the Yanks a courtesy call. He didn’t have to, but it was the professional thing to do. Boras apparently tried to derail the Johnson deal, but he too, was being professional and looking out for his client’s interests.

  51. Betsy - high on pie December 18th, 2009 at 10:57 pm

    At least Damon is forever a Yankee – I get very attached to my players. He’ll show up at Old Timer’s days after retirement, etc…….Maybe he’ll even be a ST instructor. The Yankees don’t often let one of their own just go away – they try to hold onto them in some aspect.

  52. Phil December 18th, 2009 at 10:58 pm

    I think Damon was only the Yanks first choice for Left if they got Halladay. Once Halladay landed in Philly, and there was no other good, healthy pitching that interested them, they went to plan B which was fixing LF.

  53. Rockks December 18th, 2009 at 10:58 pm

    Listening to Heyman with Franny was like having cold water thrown on you. Yes, we all know Granderson can’t hit lefties and strikes out, yet Matsui killed lefties and had basically av even K-BB ratio. We all know Johnson is made of glass and is slow and isn’t going to score runs as easily as Damon as a result (Can’t go 1st to 3rd, 2nd to home, score from 1st on a double, etc.). Again, we know this, it is just depressing to think about when there are many positives as well.

    I don’t think he said anything egregiously wrong though. Our off-season strategy does carry risk. It is to be expected though— the media is always going to take the negative take on us. Taking the positive approach would be too easy.

  54. Betsy - high on pie December 18th, 2009 at 10:59 pm

    That’s true, Phil. So now……..what does Boras do with Holliday? By now he very well knows the Yankees mean business with their budget. I guess he has to gauge the Yanks’ interest (though his gauge button seems to be a bit off) and take it from there. Holliday, I would assume, wants a team soon……

  55. Ed H. December 18th, 2009 at 11:00 pm

    Lost in Holliday-in
    December 18th, 2009 at 10:54 pm
    Ed H:

    I only claim to be an anonymous drone.
    ____________________________________
    Lost, I guess that that goes for me too. :-)

  56. blake December 18th, 2009 at 11:00 pm

    So since it appears that Sheets won’t sign for awhile, do you guys feel like the Yankees are waiting to see what happens with the Holliday situation before moving on a pitcher?

    If they work something out with Holliday then they may want to go cheaper on a starting pitcher but if Holliday signs elsewhere then Sheets will likely still be around and they can go all in after him.

  57. Jay December 18th, 2009 at 11:00 pm

    Tellum did exactly what Cashman wanted him too— let him know before he signed anywhere to give him one last chance to match. I’m not even sure if the Angels wanted him to do that.

    Most agents don’t give GMs that courtesy call… it was classy of Tellum to do. He can’t keep LAA hanging. He asked Cash if he would match and Cash said no and they accepted.

  58. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 11:01 pm

    CB-
    Thank you for clarifying that. I really wasn’t sure.

  59. Betsy - high on pie December 18th, 2009 at 11:01 pm

    Except now they haven’t fixed LF, they fixed DH…….it appears their next target is SP, if you believe the newspapers/tweets. Classic case of misdirection?

  60. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 18th, 2009 at 11:01 pm

    Betsy,

    I am pretty sure I remember Johnny Damon saying he would never play for the Yankees.

    I can not find the link though

  61. Phil December 18th, 2009 at 11:02 pm

    Betsy,

    Holliday wants to be a Yankee. We’ll see how badly.

  62. CB December 18th, 2009 at 11:02 pm

    Lost,

    I can see the granular differences in Abreu and Damon. But for Scott and Johnny to wager that muc given the stage of his career Johnny is at and his current skill set is living in a bubble and missing the big picture for where the market is right now.

    Boras lost a similar wager last year with Varitek when he turned down arb.

    Look at it this way – I believe Johnny likely feels he has at least an outside shot to make the HOF if he was able to get 3000 hits. He’s around 400 odd hits away from that plateau.

    Playing for the yankees – in this line up – would have maximized his chances of getting 3000 hits. He literally would have simply gotten more at bats with the yanks than any other team due to the way the team turns over its line up.

    He would have systematically seen better pitches to hit given Tex and Alex were behind him – no other 3-4 punch could offer him that kind of protection.

    He also could have stayed very well rested given the depth the team can generate and their willingness to make him a part time player and part DH (and reap the benefit of not being cast as “only a DH.”)

    That is a massive mis-read of the market by an experienced, and skilled professional – a risk that could have cost his client a real shot at huge legacy in addition to the lost dollars.

  63. GeorgeInJax December 18th, 2009 at 11:02 pm

    Can’t wait for spring training!
    Individual seats go on sale Jan 15th
    Steinbrenner Field is great!

  64. AZ Four December 18th, 2009 at 11:03 pm

    2009 seems like such a long time ago. When you win a championship, you don’t even really get to enjoy it for that long.

    Damon, Matsui, Coke, Bruney, Hairston, Hinske, Molina are likely all gone. When you watch the DVDs, you wish you could keep the same team.

  65. Brad S77 December 18th, 2009 at 11:03 pm

    · Unsung Star of the Year: Jayson Werth, Philadelphia Phillies (36 HR, 99 RBIs, 20 SB)
    ================================
    Maybe it is just me, but I don’t think they should announce the winner of the Unsung Star of the Year.

  66. blake December 18th, 2009 at 11:06 pm

    Is the feeling out there that if the Yankees match the Cardinals offer for Holliday then he will come to NY or will they have to beat it?

  67. KWAN December 18th, 2009 at 11:06 pm

    If Holliday wants to be a Yankee, he needs to make it pretty clear and makes sure Cash knows it.

    He also better be prepared to take less money.

    He needs to be vocal. Otherwise, how will Cash know?

  68. Pat M. December 18th, 2009 at 11:07 pm

    CB, Boras also misread the market with Alex as well….He restored some cred last season with Texeria, however Texeria is a certain lock for the Hall so things were different for him last winter…..

  69. Joe in NC December 18th, 2009 at 11:07 pm

    Lost,

    How close are the Cardinals to reaching any type of agreement with Holliday? I saw that they had made a 5 year deal, but were hesitant to go longer than that. Is that true?

  70. tk December 18th, 2009 at 11:07 pm

    blake,

    I think that is a perfect description of their current plan of action. At least I hope so :)

  71. U-Turn December 18th, 2009 at 11:08 pm

    Considering the only worth pitching candidate (Sheets) is probably not even going to set up a throwing session for a few weeks, the Yanks need something to do between now and then.

    LF may be just that.

  72. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 11:09 pm

    Lost-
    But that is you attempt at humor only. i read too much into some of your earlier statements.

    i think you have to admit many of them were intentionally cryptic due to the circumstances. I can appreciate your position.

    I hope you are a person in the KNOW. Wether you are a “drone” , or not. What matters for me, and probably others here is the insight, or lack therof that your comments actually provide.

    Please dont take this the wrong way as I am not trying to be in the least bit confrontational but you just made a declarative statement above about more coming out on Holliday this weekend.

    You did not say you thought there would be you said there will be. I will be looking forward to whatever it is, and i hope it is forthcoming for very obvious reasons.

    Thanks in advance.

  73. Lost in Holliday-in December 18th, 2009 at 11:11 pm

    CB:

    “That is a massive mis-read of the market by an experienced, and skilled professional – a risk that could have cost his client a real shot at huge legacy in addition to the lost dollars.”

    Al Leiter said it best. “My head kept telling me that I can still do it but it took my body awhile to convince me otherwise”.

    Or something along those lines.

  74. Yanks 61 December 18th, 2009 at 11:12 pm

    The declarative statement about Holliday this weekend will be

    “Mystery team enters the Holliday bidding”

    … and the mystery team will never be identified as it is a figment of Boras’ imagination.

  75. UpState December 18th, 2009 at 11:12 pm

    Bill
    December 18th, 2009 at 10:38 pm
    Sometimes, it doesn’t even feel like we are the World Champs. Most of the talk this winter has been about the mess that is the Mets and how the Sox are so formidable and going to get every player (Beltre/Gonzalez, etc.). Only talk about us has been negative (How Granderson can’t hit lefties/strikes out, NJ bashing, how our rotation sucks, etc.)
    =======================

    Geez – exactly where the heck are you ‘only’ reading that stuff ???

    Really…….

  76. Lost in Holliday-in December 18th, 2009 at 11:12 pm

    CB:

    What I was trying to say, “delusion of grandeur”. Case example.

  77. Ed H. December 18th, 2009 at 11:13 pm

    The Damon/Boras team clearly overplayed their hand, at great cost to both of them. Boras should have realized that Cash means what he says from his dealings with Cash over the ARod opt-out. (Only Hank’s intervention saved that situation for the player.) Was Damon the impetus behind this blunder or did Boras make the same mistake twice?

  78. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 11:14 pm

    Lost-
    On whose part Damon’s or Boras ?

  79. GeorgeInJax December 18th, 2009 at 11:14 pm

    We wont find out till March or so, but if Wang is healthy it would be great to re-acquire him. A healthy Wang is a front of the rotation pitcher.
    At this point it is too risky to deal with him or Sheets until you can see them at least throw some bullpens and prove they are healthy.

  80. Betsy - high on pie December 18th, 2009 at 11:15 pm

    Phil, maybe so, but it’s unfair to ask the guy to sign a contract at below market value. Holliday deserves to be paid, so if the Yanks lowball him (or give the impression they are lowballing him) then I hope he signs for whatever he can get.

  81. Bronx Jeers December 18th, 2009 at 11:15 pm

    Funny but I felt Johnny’s market was pretty much set the moment Abreu agreed to the Halo’s offer.

    I thought it was clear as day.

    And given what happened last winter and the way this winter has developed?

    Boras got schooled good and quick by Cash this time around.

    Still, we’ll see how this works out with Nick Johnson.

  82. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 11:15 pm

    Lost-
    I guess I was wondering WHO really blew it there.

  83. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 11:16 pm

    Boras has been given an EXAMPLE. He better not make the same mistake TWICE.

  84. Phil December 18th, 2009 at 11:17 pm

    Betsy,

    his offers are all around 5/80. The Yanks can give him more than that if he’ll agree to their structuring. That’s all it is. They’re not gonna lowball him, this is one such player that they always have room for.

  85. GeorgeInJax December 18th, 2009 at 11:17 pm

    Back a few years ago Boras could “create” a market for his players……Times have changed

    Imagen the Yankees and Financial Responsibility in the same sentence.

  86. CompassRosy December 18th, 2009 at 11:19 pm

    SacFly~

    I think Jack’s looking for an mlb established player for Morrow+

  87. Phil December 18th, 2009 at 11:19 pm

    Back when George Weiss was the GM and the Yanks were winning all the time, he used to get a bonus for lowballing all the players. He’d get a cut of every dollar saved. But of course that was when they had a reserve clause.

  88. GeorgeInJax December 18th, 2009 at 11:20 pm

    Outside of Andrew Brackman (and maybe him too) everyone on the 40 man roster is poised to contribute this year.

  89. Betsy - high on pie December 18th, 2009 at 11:21 pm

    I guess we’ll find out soon enough, Phil.

    Boras and Cash have a good relationship and Boras is a brilliant guy – he hasn’t figured out that Cash doesn’t get fooled by him? He’d better figure it out now as he’s got other clients (or will have) on the Yanks and he will be dealing with Cash for a long time.

  90. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 18th, 2009 at 11:21 pm

    On a side note. Is it worse that Jacoby won defensive player of the year or that Franklin Gutierrez did not win?

    Who votes for that cra

  91. blake December 18th, 2009 at 11:21 pm

    I think anything under 100 Million is a really good deal for Holliday. Thats just my opinion, I think anywhere around there and he has a very good chance at outplaying the contract.

  92. m December 18th, 2009 at 11:22 pm

    lol, Cash getting back at Boras for the Arod shizzle.

  93. CB December 18th, 2009 at 11:23 pm

    “He restored some cred last season with Texeria, however Texeria is a certain lock for the Hall so things were different for him last winter…..”

    Pat M.,

    I’d argue a little different, actually.

    Tex got a lot of money – but I think he got that money largely because of himself, his talents, and his accomplishments.

    Boras made his name for one very particular skill – getting teams to essentially bid against themselves so that he could get at least one bid that was a complete outlier.

    Boras never did that with Tex. Tex’s market matured and then reached it’s equilibrium. Boras was never able to make the bidding turn into a huge auction.

    The Sox walked away thinking Boras was bluffing (which he wasn’t…). The nats never made some outlanding 250M bid – nor did the orioles.

    Boras never found his Tom Hicks or McGowan for Tex.

    The market decided what Tex would earn – and when that price matured and was set the Yankees were offered the option of buying and they did.

    But the yankees paid the going market rate for Tex. They never bid against themselves nor did they enter the race where it became a heated chase between them and the sox for who would get Tex.

    The yanks made Boras come to them – on their terms – and then they decided to buy.

    If the yanks get Holliday – it will be on similar terms. The market is setting Holliday’s price. And then the yanks will decide whether or not they want to invest.

    Just my opinion, but I don’t think Boras did anything out of the ordinary to escalate Tex’s contract.

  94. Phil December 18th, 2009 at 11:24 pm

    Cash, if he is annoyed at Boras, is probably more annoyed about the Cole shizzle.

  95. CB December 18th, 2009 at 11:27 pm

    CompassRosy,

    You must be quite a happy camper. Jack Z has done a fantastic job for you guys.

    I also like the fact that he is aggressively moving into win now mode and doing so with Felix still having two years on his deal.

    The angels are very vulnerable – and Jack sees that. I think he even saw that last year.

    Nicely done by your team.

    I do worry about the stark absence of power but it’s remarkable how he’s turned around the disaster Bavasi created.

  96. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 11:30 pm

    Phil-
    I cant prove it except maybe to myself but I believe it is more than just Structuring the deal.

    Why ?

    Because that doesn’t seem to make sense. WHY would Holliday
    insist that all of his money be evenly distributed rather than back-loaded ?

    Perhaps, you can explain to me because i do not know accounting etc. WHY that would be such a big deal ?

    to try to use common sense on this I give myself the following analogy.

    Let’s say I am about to accept a new job. And let’s further say that it is a job I really want. Kind of like the dream job i have always wanted.

    And the employer offers the job with a guarantee of employment for the next 5 years at a guarnateed TOTAL price.

    He further stipulates that though the TOTAL money is guaranteed for the full term. He is a little short on his budget this year so that I would have to take less for a year or two but he would make it up in later years.

    under this analogy WHY wouldn’t I take this dream job ?

    Unless there were some COMPELLING reason like I need the money right now (which I doubt he does) I have to take it.
    especially since his offer is my first choice.

    There must be something more but I do not have the answer, and that is how i try to reason this out knowing I do not have ALL the facts.

  97. crawdaddy December 18th, 2009 at 11:30 pm

    The following excerpt from Kepner’s article demonstrates that Boras/Damon overplayed their hand. When the Yankees gave them their original offer of 2/14M, they should’ve counter with the 2/20M offer instead they told Cashman 2/26M. See ya later!

    “Damon said in a text message Friday that the Yankees had offered two years and $14 million, while he had offered to return for two years and $20 million. That was true, a Yankees official confirmed, but by then, the Yankees and Johnson had nearly finished their deal and it was too late to turn back.

    The official, who was granted anonymity because the Johnson deal has not been announced, said that Damon’s agent, Scott Boras, wanted a two-year, $26 million deal when he spoke with General Manager Brian Cashman on Wednesday.

    In a telephone interview, though, Boras said the Yankees did not begin negotiations with him until Thursday at 4 p.m., when they proposed the two-year, $14 million offer. Boras said he soon countered at two years and $20 million proposal, and Cashman rejected it.

    “The reason they did it is they said they did not have the budget for that type of proposal and they were going in a different direction,” Boras said. “That was the end of it.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12.....38;emc=rss

  98. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 18th, 2009 at 11:31 pm

    20 million right now is worth a lot more than 20 million 5 years from now.

  99. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 18th, 2009 at 11:32 pm

    …….as long as you do not give that 20 million to Bernie Madoff

  100. Sacrificefly December 18th, 2009 at 11:33 pm

    CompassRosy

    What about swisher to base the trade around? He plays first /DH Brings a power bat to your line up.Is that fair? Deff agree with CB your team is making great moves. Easily got the Angels number.

  101. raymagnetic December 18th, 2009 at 11:35 pm

    Boras has played the Yankees two years in a row. It’s a myth that A-rod fired Boras as Boras negotitiated A-rod’s newest contract.

    Last year Boras got Boston to up the ante on Teixeira then got the Yankees to pay him 180 million. So in 2 years Boras has made commissions on nearly half a billion dollars from the Yankee organization.

    Somehow I don’t think he’s crying over Damon and the Yankees.

  102. Lost in Holliday-in December 18th, 2009 at 11:36 pm

    CB:

    Now that was a very well written post! (ref: 11:23pm)

    MTU:

    Last night when I said the Yankees ‘comfort zone’ is 5/85 I thought that is what was going to come out today..

    Instead all that came out was an offer from the redsox for the same thing by gammons and Cash telling Kay what he little he did.

    I have to say, I was a bit surprised myself. I never said the Yankees are going to sign Holliday this weekend.

  103. Pat M. December 18th, 2009 at 11:37 pm

    CB, What I meant about Boras and restoring some of his swagger in the eyes of his clients after Alex dropped him the year before, was how he rode Texeria all the way to the bank…..He did take a hit last season with V-Tek though, but most people forget that blunder because of Texeria and his monster contact…..Then again Texeria is a HOF and the market came to him…..This blunder will be remembered for several years…..Actually his clount has deminished somewhat after Alex dropped him in the dealings with The Steinbrenners in 07….

  104. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 11:38 pm

    Let’s go-

    How do you figure that ?

    Also, we are talking about a deferral of the whole amount like a Baloon pmt on a mortgage.

    just a graded partial deferral.

    If you have more knowledge on this sort of thing I would appreciate your explanation.

    Where is Erica when you need her ?

  105. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 11:39 pm

    I meant to say we are “not ” talking about….

  106. Wait, What!?! December 18th, 2009 at 11:40 pm

    So there is no chance that Damon can come back?

  107. bru December 18th, 2009 at 11:43 pm

    imo the yankees are willing to overpay for the right player if we need that player like tex,cc,etc…

    the market was set for damon & he wanted way above market value when we would have paid him fair market or slightly above value

    he blew it

    if holliday makes sense in years & money compared to what is available next year we pounce

    4 yrs 64-68 , 5 yrs 75-80 i think cash does it but another huge contract i think is out of the question now

    i think we should try for a blockbuster trade for a frontline pitcher because next years fa pitchers are going to cost more than burnett in money & years

    maybe it makes sense to just pay for a fa pitcher next year & keep our prospects.maybe not

    i only trade joba,montero if i am getting 1 of a few pitchers in return

    i think cashmans first choice is to sign fa pitchers & keep our prospects but at what point do we stop signing big contracts for pitchers & trade for at least one younger more cost controlled one??

    the balance has shifted in our favor & we need to take advantage of this

  108. 100 pitches of fun... December 18th, 2009 at 11:43 pm

    So basically Damon didn’t lower his demands until he saw on MLBTR that the Yanks had a deal with NJ. Then he got nervous and came running back. 2/$20m was fair but he isn’t going to get close to that from another team. If he wants he can bat 4th for the Giants next season for $5m. I would be surprised if he gets anything more than that.

  109. Phil December 18th, 2009 at 11:43 pm

    MTU,

    It probably won’t be a problem, but if it is, the deal will go away. That’s all I think. Remember back in `04 when Sheffield negotiated his own deal then cried about all the deferred money? Sometimes the players want it a certain way, in this case, I get the feeling Holliday can only have it the Yanks’ way.

  110. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 11:44 pm

    Lost-

    I wasn’t saying that that’s what you were predicting. Just what you seemed to say that “something” would be coming out.

    I further assumed it would be something of importance, and not just another piece of trivia (no offense meant).

    I will be watching for that “something” to come out since you said it WILL. Not that it “MIGHT”.

    If NOTHING comes out. Oh well !

  111. Zach S December 18th, 2009 at 11:44 pm

    Still don’t get why they plan off days in the middle of series.

  112. CB December 18th, 2009 at 11:45 pm

    Lost,

    I think the yankees and Cash are better understanding how they can translate their clout into leverage in the market with respect to Boras.

    They aren’t simply participating in the market – they are waiting, knowing that they can define the market. They are making boras come to them.

    Hank bailed out Scott on Alex. But what Cash did last year with tex was very skilfully done.

    The negotiations for Tex vs. CC were so starkly different. They chased CC and that was reflected in what they paid. They did so because the need was so great.

    But they didn’t chase Tex. And they didn’t chase Damon. And they’re not chasing on Holliday.

    They’re the 800 pound gorilla – and are appropriately acting as such.

  113. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 11:46 pm

    Phil-

    I see what you’re saying but that seems like pure stubborness, and if it is IMO that would be another miscalculation on someone’s part.

  114. Rich in NJ December 18th, 2009 at 11:48 pm

    Betsy – high on pie

    “Boy, Jon Heyman really doesn’t like the signing of NJ. He harps on the fact that he “clogs the bases” ”

    My all-time favorite quote about base clogging from another idiot:

    “Giambi walks too much. He’s always clogging up the bases with all that walking.”- Tim McCarver

  115. Lost in Holliday-in December 18th, 2009 at 11:48 pm

    MTU:

    Take heed as to what CB just said.

    “they are waiting, knowing that they can define the market. They are making boras come to them”.

    CB:

    Who’s your source?

    MTU:

    Seriously, it’s not time to panic yet..

  116. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 18th, 2009 at 11:49 pm

    MTU,

    I am certainly not an expert as a student in law school, but in its most basic form the reasoning is simple.

    If you have money now, you can invest that money and make more money off that original money.

    How much money Holliday wants to make off his 18 million or whatever depends on how much risk he wants to take. If he wants no risk at all, he can just plop that money into a savings account and watch the money grow on the annual interest.

    You should always take as much money as you can up front because if not you are foregoing the interest you could make on that money in the time period during which you are waiting for your future payments. That is why signing bonuses are very valuable to players.

  117. trisha - OPPC forever - (new lucky picture from last day at the old Stadium) BRING ON THE GHOSTS! December 18th, 2009 at 11:50 pm

    I just read that Damon said he isn’t coming back. If that’s old news, sorry about that. That said, while I am “happy” about that since I feel that he and his beelzebubic manager were a bit too greedy, I will also miss what he brought to the team. He indeed left it all out on the field each time he played. But since it’s a business, I guess his loyalty factor must take a back seat to his getting all that he can. Sure it’s understandable, but still at least a bit disappointing.

    Anyway, it’s all good, and my holiday season just keeps getting better and better. THANK YOU YANKEES!!!!

    And since I covet no player, I’m really enjoying watching the show.

    :)

  118. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 11:50 pm

    CB-
    Does that 800 lb. Gorilla have BO ? Because they are acting like he does.

    This shouldn’t be this much of a problem if the parties really want this. i have to believe there must be more flexibility than “seems” to be apparent.

    I was hoping that “lost” was our “fly on the wall”.

    Maybe i am giving him too much credit ?

  119. Lost in Holliday-in December 18th, 2009 at 11:51 pm

    CB:

    I was being funny about “who’s your source”.

    I agree with everything you just said and if I wasn’t busy texting the mrs right now, I would have more to say on it.

    you did a fantastic job recapitulating tho, there is really nothing else left to say.

  120. Phil December 18th, 2009 at 11:54 pm

    MTU,

    no,it’s about leverage. Holliday has not inspired the bidding frenzy that Tex did. His market is hovering around a single point, but he has a place he wants to be. The Yanks may be willing to give him a deal around that certain point, but it will be structured so they can say their payroll was lower this year. That’s all. I think it can be a smooth transaction.

    Btw, last year Boras wanted Tex to go to Boston so Manny could have the Yanks bidding against the Dodgers, but Tex didn’t like the Red Sox people and decided he wanted to be a Yankee. The client is always the boss, so Boras made him a Yankee even though it was bad news for Manny.

    This year he has to call the Yanks about Holliday, cause that’s where Holliday wants to go and the client is the boss.

  121. David December 18th, 2009 at 11:55 pm

    Anything Heyman says here should be dismissed. Even more so since he used the clogging the bases argument. Enough with that nonsense. Heyman really is stupid or corrupt. Its one or the other.

  122. lohud of the rings December 18th, 2009 at 11:57 pm

    Jacoby Ellsbury winning Defensive Player of the Year is like Keanu Reeves winning a Best Actor Oscar.

  123. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 11:59 pm

    Lost-

    i am not at all in panic mode. You are misperceiving me there.

    Actually I am quite at piece on whatever happens because I believe that if it doesn’t happen it just means that the Yankees didn’t want to do it. Not the other side.

    The Yankees have the power to do whatever suits them. They are as people say the BIG elephant or whatever. They can move this off the dime in a heartbeat if they WANT to, or they can choose to wait as you point out.

    I think there cannot but much of a gulf between the parties.

    The market is pretty well defined.

    It seems foolish to ME to let the Mexican stand off continue
    as it is when Holliday belongs under the Yankee tree.

    Both sides KNOW it. Resistance is futile.

    I dont see the NEED for the Yanks or Boras to be so stubborn.

    Agree to a compromise and get it done. Not that difficult.

    It isn’t splitting the atom !

  124. CB December 19th, 2009 at 12:00 am

    MTU,

    I think you’re expectations are getting out of wack both for the dynamics of the situation and for what one can possibly hope to learn in a public forum such as this one.

  125. bru December 19th, 2009 at 12:04 am

    when we got cc,tex,burnett i just knew we had a magic team

    but if we get holliday man is our lineup insane

    jeter
    nj
    tex
    arod
    holliday
    posada
    cano
    swisher
    cg

  126. MTU December 19th, 2009 at 12:04 am

    CB-
    You are avery smart man and I respect that but what you just said went COMPLETELY over my head.

    Can you simplfy it for poor little me please.

  127. Lost in Holliday-in December 19th, 2009 at 12:05 am

    “Boras may be in the process of reeling in a new fish; maybe it will be the Yankees, Atlanta Braves or even (as a longshot) the Chicago Cubs.”

    http://www.stltoday.com/blogzo.....ke-charge/

    MTU:

    It seems everbody is waiting for Holliday to intervene right now.

  128. Eric December 19th, 2009 at 12:05 am

    There is a possibility nj does clog up the bases. He could be right

  129. Phil December 19th, 2009 at 12:08 am

    Walks don’t clog up the bases. They save outs.

  130. MTU December 19th, 2009 at 12:08 am

    Lost-

    What is Holliday a child or something ? if he really wants this why wouldn’t he have said something already ?

    Why did it take so long ? i dont get that.

    Boras is wrong ? Misleading Holliday ? What ?

  131. CB December 19th, 2009 at 12:14 am

    MTU,

    Negotiations are never easy – especially when you don’t have a drop dead date the deal has to be executed by. They can drag on.

    With Holliday, neither side is being stubborn per say. Each side is doing their due dilligence. Each side is trying to get the best deal they can.

    Boras’s job is to get Holliday the most money he can while putting him in the situation (i.e. team/ place) that his client most favors.

    The yankees are trying to make an efficient investment.

    That’s all it is. It’ll likely wrap up soon as an equilibrium is developing for Holliday. Ultimately he’ll just need to feel comfortable with the idea that he has sufficient choice and will then just need to decide what he wants to do.

    Ballplayers wait years for free agency. Holliday has been traded twice because he wanted to explore free agency (and didn’t want to sign an extension).

    Remember – the Rockies offered Holliday a 4 yr/ 82M deal two years ago. Right now he doesn’t have an offer even close to that AAV. So I’d guess the situation now isn’t exactly what he was hoping for during his free agency.

    And there’s really only so much another poster can make known on a public web site. Lost is making interesting but also appropriately measured statements.

    We’re just talking baseball – it’s supposed to be enjoyable.

  132. CR9 December 19th, 2009 at 12:16 am

    LOL @ Jacoby.

    Of all the people in baseball, Jacoby?

    I loved the Keanu joke, as Speed is airing on HBO right now.

  133. tk December 19th, 2009 at 12:17 am

    “Why did it take so long ? i dont get that. ”

    I would assume Holliday/Boras are waiting in hopes that the market takes off in the form of either the Cards upping their offer or someone like the Yanks taking the bidding to the next level. Probably not much of a downside to it, not like the Cards will just move on to a Derosa.

  134. rodg12 December 19th, 2009 at 12:20 am

    Can’t believe Jacoby won the defensive player of the year award. Especially since all the other awards were so spot on…

  135. CENTRAL CT YANKEE December 19th, 2009 at 12:23 am

    http://www.facebook.com/group......038;ref=mf

  136. MTU December 19th, 2009 at 12:26 am

    Ok.
    So the Yankees have Leverage over Boras in the holliday negotiations and they know it.

    But the two sides are playing some sort of a game of financial chicken with each other.

    And each side supposedly wishes the other to capitulate to their terms.

    And this has gone on for how long now ? maybe a week or more ?

    But Holliday wants to go to the Yankees.

    His agent is handling things for him, yet Holliday is expected to brake this logjam.

    Why wouldn’t boras do that ? knowing full well what his clients wishes are ?

    That doesn’t make sense to me. It should be Boras acting and not Holliday. Holliday shouldn’t have to say a word.

    Boras should know already wht his client wants.

    I guess I just dont get it.

    Ok.

    Matt. Tell you agent what he already knows. That you want to be a Yankee so a deal can conclude.

    Whatever. If this is the actual scenario then whats happeneing makes absolutely NO sense to me, and Holliday cant
    exactly be the sharpest tool in the shed.

    Would any of you let this happen if this were your situation ?

    I know i sure wouldn’t. I just cant believe a guy like this wood be so passive about something so important in his life.

    If true, it’s just unbelievable to me.

  137. Abdababdaserser December 19th, 2009 at 12:26 am

    This is all about seeing who blinks first. Some party in the Holliday sweepstakes will.

    I think Gammons was trying to push it along and see if it exposed the Yankees possible interest. Or maybe the RS used Gammons to try that angle.

    The Cards will probably break first unless Holliday sees a team he wants to go to more growing tired of the wait and are willing to move along.

    This is the game of Negotiation Chicken.

  138. chistina25 December 19th, 2009 at 12:28 am

    Tex was voted for the all star game even though he couldnt hit for his life for about 3 weeks before.

  139. Phil December 19th, 2009 at 12:29 am

    MTU,

    Boras had another client who wanted to be the LF for the Yanks and he was the incumbent. Neither Boras nor the Yanks are served by making Johnny, a player they like, feel badly because a younger player will replace him. Give it some time.

  140. tk December 19th, 2009 at 12:29 am

    “That’s all it is. It’ll likely wrap up soon as an equilibrium is developing for Holliday. ”

    CB,

    I assume that equilibrium price is pretty much what has been publicly speculated–approximately 5 years for $80 – $90 million–wouldn’t you think? It seems that the Cardinals are either confident in their position as sole bidder, or aren’t too interested in signing him but just creating that impression. After all, as you pointed out, they leaked their offer as “the biggest in franchise history” but it was really a 5 year guarantee with three option years and thus was a near certainty not to be accepted. With that said, I can’t see the Yankees not being comfortable buying at that point, Holliday is simply too valuable. If the Yankees were not truly involved, at least on some level, I think Holliday would already be a Cardinal. Instead, I believe the Yanks have stayed engaged, but are refusing to increase that equilibrium price point. Unless someone else suddenly increases the price, I would be surprised if Holliday didn’t land in New York.

  141. KO December 19th, 2009 at 12:30 am

    Cashman made a mess by passing on a World Series MVP and signing a guy with half as much talent and who is just as limited position wise. To make matters worse, Johnson is just as slow, and is even more injury prone than Hideki.

    Thanks for bringing back a Yankee reject instead of a Yankee hero, Cashman. And for one million less LOL. That was seriously a brilliant move. Like Johnson is worth 5.5 million in a market in which the best DH, Matsui, got 6.5. Sweet, Cash. I find it pretty hard to believe another team would have given Johnson 5 1/2. He’s not worth it. He’s freaking mediocre.

    Cashman can clean up some of this mess by still re-signing Damon, for 2 years and w/e he wants per year. He’s worth it- he’s proven it.

    You can’t lose Damon and Hideki and replace them with Granderson and Nick Johnson and expect the offense to be the same. It’s just not going to happen.

  142. Rich in NJ December 19th, 2009 at 12:32 am

    In what world are 36 and 37 year old players not at risk of experiencing a decline?

  143. CR9 December 19th, 2009 at 12:33 am

    Pat M

    While I love Teixeira, how can you already be calling him a HOF?

    Is that not a little too soon?

  144. KO December 19th, 2009 at 12:33 am

    PS, the Yankees don’t need overrated, overhyped Matt Holliday. This guy is nowhere near the league of Tex, as Boras is claiming. Holliday has talent but his stats are overblown due to Coors Field, and the Yankees have ENOUGH monster contracts on the books. They don’t need to give another 100 million to Holliday- it’d be a waste. They’d be fine with their lineup the way it is, IF they bring back Damon for another couple of years. Just say no to Holliday. Let someone else pay for that overrated bum.

  145. Phil December 19th, 2009 at 12:33 am

    Sparky Lyle Yankeeography rocks.

  146. MTU December 19th, 2009 at 12:34 am

    CB-
    Thanks for explaining your point of view to me. I appreciate it. Yes atlking baseball is fun. The negotiating process does not seem as straightforward as i think it should be.

    Too much foreplay with way too little worthwhile action.

    In short. Too much BS. It isn’t splitting the atom after all.

    This guy wants and probably has always wanted to be a Yankee

    all things being equal.

    And i believe things are at least equal.

    Did not mean to annoy you CB if I did it was unintentional.

    I make my share of attempts at humor here as well as my attempts at talking baseball.

    Have good night.

  147. David December 19th, 2009 at 12:36 am

    Nick Johnson is not mediocre. A player with a career obp of over 400 is not mediocre. He is a very good baseball player. The Yankees will be better with the moves they have made even if Melky is starting in left. Granderson had an off year and hit 30 HRs in an extreme pitchers park. He will mash at Yankees stadium. Damon is breaking down. He is not worth whatever he wants. He is already declining and it will only get worse. And his defense is beyond awful. Cashman has had a great offseason so far.

  148. Pat M. December 19th, 2009 at 12:36 am

    It’s real simple, The Yanks need a leftfielder who can be proficient hitting in the 5 hole…..There is a perfect fit out there, it just has to make $$$ sense….The need hasn’t changed, if anything it might have increased with the Johnson signing….At the other end you have that fit wanting to satisfy that need, however once again it has to make $$$ sense……Compromise will take place and both parties will be elated in reaching this mutual understanding……And # 13 will be very happy with this arrangement

  149. GeorgeInJax December 19th, 2009 at 12:37 am

    KO
    Both Matsui & Damon have old legs and are atrocious in the field. We can appreciate their accomplishments, but all ballplayers get to a point of diminishing returns. At the end of their contracts Jeter, Posada, & Rivera will be less valuable too. Even though we love these guys we can’t hang on to them forever.

  150. Phil December 19th, 2009 at 12:37 am

    KO,

    my guess is you never looked at the back of a baseball card.

  151. MikeinBH December 19th, 2009 at 12:37 am

    For what it’s worth, former GM Jim Bowden says on Twitter that the Yankees are IN on Holliday.

    http://twitter.com/JimBowdenIV/

  152. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 19th, 2009 at 12:37 am

    MTU
    December 18th, 2009 at 11:38 pm
    Let’s go-

    How do you figure that ?

    Also, we are talking about a deferral of the whole amount like a Baloon pmt on a mortgage.

    just a graded partial deferral.

    If you have more knowledge on this sort of thing I would appreciate your explanation.

    Where is Erica when you need her ?

    *********

    I am here!!!!! Let me scroll up and see where I am needed….

  153. David December 19th, 2009 at 12:38 am

    Granderson will be fine in the 5th hole. Posada would be fine there as well. Holliday there would be amazing.

  154. CB December 19th, 2009 at 12:39 am

    tk,

    I think that’s a reasonable way of looking at things. The yankees are likely going to be relatively inelastic on price here because Holliday doesn’t seem to be a player they’ve put in the must have category like CC was last year.

    They’ll invest if they think it makes sense at the price.

    We’ll just have to see if the situation makes sense for them and ultimately what Holliday’s preferences are and what trade offs he’s willing to make.

    That’s part of the complication here – Holliday is going to need to make trade offs. He’s not going to get the ideal he was likely looking for and thinking free agency may turn out to be.

    Night all.

  155. David December 19th, 2009 at 12:40 am

    I always find it funny when Bowden criticizes other GMs after completely messing up the Nationals.

  156. MTU December 19th, 2009 at 12:41 am

    Phil-

    They should have learned form that and moved this thing along faster.

    Johnny’s problem was that he was too prideful, and waited to long to accept his situation.

    i like the guy but he Effed up. He’ll get something else but he should learned something from that experience.

    he is not a little boy. He is a man. And he should just move on and accept responsibility for his error, and try to learn from it.

    What else should he do ? sulk ?

    He’ll get something else that’s it. Thats all anyone can do.

    hey. he’s a lot richer in some ways than i will ever be.

  157. m December 19th, 2009 at 12:41 am

    chistina25
    December 19th, 2009 at 12:28 am
    Tex was voted for the all star game even though he couldnt hit for his life for about 3 weeks before.

    =====================

    And?

  158. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 19th, 2009 at 12:42 am

    MTU-

    You are failing to take into account “the time value of money”. Taking into account trivial things like inflation, money right now is worth more than the same amount 20 years ago.

    Simplest explanation-
    30 years ago when grandma gave you a quarter it was pretty awesome. Today when grandma gives you a quarter you snarl at her.

    Also to consider, if you are offered 20 million right now or 10 million right now and 10 million later, you are basically taking an interest-free loan against your future. You are missing out on the money you could have earned had you properly invested the full 20 million.

    Whew.

  159. Pat M. December 19th, 2009 at 12:43 am

    David, until MLB changes the dynamics to The Triple Crown Award, on base % is a supportive stat….You hit your way to Pro Ball, not walk your way…….270 batting average is rather regular for a 1st baseman as long as he accounts for 200 runs a season…….In your world there is a Quadrouple Award, BA, RBI’s, HR’s & OBS……CR9, Tex is in line to be a 500 hr switching hitting ballplayer, along with Gold Gloves, All-Star selections etc…..I don’t think the HOPF commitee will be siting his obs as a crtieria……Baring some unfortunate career injury , he’s heading towards Cooperstown

  160. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 19th, 2009 at 12:43 am

    Erica – always OPPC – Bring Johnny Back!!!
    December 19th, 2009 at 12:42 am
    MTU-

    You are failing to take into account “the time value of money”. Taking into account trivial things like inflation, money right now is worth more than the same amount 20 years ago.

    ******

    ARGH!!! That should read 20 years FROM NOW (Not 20 years ago)

  161. Phil December 19th, 2009 at 12:45 am

    MTU,

    do have some deadline you have to meet? The truth is the most money available in free agency is available on day 1. After that there’s less every day. Why should the Yanks pay first day prices when they can just be patient and let the prices settle or come down? They’ve been getting other things done, and so far the things they’ve done have been deliberate and smart. Why not let them keep being deliberate? They’re not sitting on their hands. They’re trying to put together a team that can repeat.

  162. MTU December 19th, 2009 at 12:45 am

    Thanks Erica. Nite all.

  163. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 19th, 2009 at 12:46 am

    Sure. Good night Yankee people!!!!!

  164. tk December 19th, 2009 at 12:47 am

    “We’ll just have to see if the situation makes sense for them and ultimately what Holliday’s preferences are and what trade offs he’s willing to make.”

    CB,

    Thanks for the input. I wonder though if Holliday will really have the option of whether or not to make trade offs…I think all options (financially speaking) will be fairly equal and unappealing. Like you mentioned, he already turned down that 4/82, probably bought what Boras was selling with the Tex comparisons. The coinciding of financially responsible Yankees and this putrid economy have really hampered Boras’ normal game. Plus the Sox can be a stalking horse this time ;)

  165. chistina25 December 19th, 2009 at 12:47 am

    people complain about Ellsbury winning the award but Tex didnt deserve to be the starter for the all star game. He got it because Yankee fans were voting for him. The same thing with Ellsbury.Fans voted for him even though he didnt deserve the award. So you can say its a wash.

  166. David December 19th, 2009 at 12:47 am

    Pat-Just because some stupid writer 120 years ago didn’t think walks mattered, doesn’t make batting average a better stat than obp. Its not. Do you think Robinson Cano had a better year than Alex Rodriguez? He had a higher batting average.

    Just because you don’t like the newer stats, doesn’t mean you should ignore them. They tell you a lot more about a player than the triple crown stats do. Nick Johnson is a very good baseball player. He creates less outs per plate appearance than just about any player in baseball. Or maybe you thought Gene Michael was an idiot when he built the dynasty teams offense around on base percentage.

  167. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 12:48 am

    MTU, I know you want Holliday, but aren’t you taking this a bit too seriously? What do you want Holliday to do? To date, the Yankees have shown no interest in him…..not publicly anyway. What’s he supposed to do, come out and say he wants to play for them? What happens if they don’t want Holliday? It’s very possible……… He doesn’t owe anyone a thing.

    Rich, great quote; Heyman sounded like such dope.

  168. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 19th, 2009 at 12:52 am

    Bottom line is that in terms of priorities to Matt Holliday

    1. Money

    2. The Yankees

    If Boras is telling him he can get more money by waiting the market out, Holliday is going to ride this out

  169. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 19th, 2009 at 12:52 am

    hmm. formatting fail. the space between 1 and 2 was supposed to be much larger

  170. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 12:52 am

    Also, why should I believe that Holliday wants to be a Yankee? I’m sorry, I’m just so skeptical……once bitten, twice shy. It doesn’t bother me, though.

  171. rodg12 December 19th, 2009 at 12:52 am

    Funny story about Heyman….I called him a moron on twitter for using anectdotal evidence last year to suggest Joba should definitely be in the bullpen and the dude blocked me from reading his updates. LOL. The ultimate hypocrisy is that he routinely calls GMs dumb for the moves they make…

  172. CR9 December 19th, 2009 at 12:54 am

    Christina25:

    I hate to burst your bubble, but Teixeira was an All Star, Gold Glove winner, and MVP candidate.

    Jacoby Ellsbury did not even win a Gold Glove (not that Gold Gloves mean anything…)

    There were 18 GG winners, and not one of them won the defensive player of the year.

    When you look at it like that, it is kind of funny.

    Anyhow, these are meaningless awards.

  173. lordbyron December 19th, 2009 at 12:54 am

    Your support of BAT was a great touch. Unfortunately, the media (and the public) doesn’t give BAT the support it deserves. It’s been a godsend to a lot of former ballplayers and their families.

  174. David December 19th, 2009 at 12:55 am

    Heh. I called out Heyman for being Boras’ conduit. He did not like that at all.

  175. G-C December 19th, 2009 at 12:56 am

    Cashman will pay dearly for the way he’s handled this offseason. I just can’t explain the lunacy of pinching pennies with two cogs of a championship team; this is the same guy that threw fifty million dollars at a soft-tossing left handed pitcher from Japan with NO track record just a couple of years ago.

    Are you seriously telling me that Hal’s budget is so tight that Damon at 2 years/20 million couldn’t fit in? If that’s the case, then something’s up, financial issues or whatnot. I think the more likely scenario is that Cashman just didn’t want him back, which is utterly stupid and prompts me to seriously question his judgment. Damon has improved as a hitter with age, he’s a lock to play in 140 + games per year, and his defense, as bad as it may look, is perfectly playable in left field. He was 4 runs above average out there per BP this year- while that metric is far from foolproof, it says something. Damon is far from as bad as people make him out to be in the outfield.

    We got flat out worse this offseason, gentlemen and women, and we’ll continue to get worse when Cashman decides to destroy one of our young pitchers by bringing in a mediocre stopgap and shifting one of those guys to the bullpen.

    We didn’t get “younger and better,” we got “younger and worse.” We added a mediocre platoon player who was INCREDIBLY LUCKY to have the years he had with Detroit from 2007-2008 (check out his BABIPs from those years, completely unsustainable, and much of his value was tied up in an absurd number of triples that would never play anywhere but Comerica) and a piece of glass who’ll be lucky to stick through 300 plate appearances this year.

  176. m December 19th, 2009 at 1:00 am

    Oh, I figured that much. I mean even the least intelligent posters realize online voting is a popularity contest and nothing to get too excited over.

  177. tk December 19th, 2009 at 1:01 am

    “on base % is a supportive stat….You hit your way to Pro Ball, not walk your way”

    Pat M.,

    I understand your argument, as hit are more valuable than walks, but I believe you’re discounting OBP too much. By that same token, people like me probably discount BA too much. The biggest impediment to properly evaluating a player though probably isn’t weighting one or the other too heavily, but only relying on a single stat of any kind to pass judgment. IMO

  178. Phil December 19th, 2009 at 1:02 am

    OBP is the single most important stat for a hitter, any hitter.

  179. Pat M. December 19th, 2009 at 1:02 am

    David, he’s a .270 hitter, who has a high bb % and an even higher whiff %…His run production ( runs scored and rbi’s ) is average, as is his total bases….Basically he’s an average ballplayer and for his position ( 1st base ) he’s below average……Listen, I’ve been aware of obs since my plating days in HS, College, Pros…Its a very supportive stat, it’s not the Holy Grail in evaluating a baseball player…..His ba is .273 is obs is .402, yet he whiffs more than he walks…….He is what he is…

  180. David December 19th, 2009 at 1:03 am

    Just utter nonsense. Last year was the out of context season for Granderson, not the other years. And he still hit 30 homeruns in an extreme pitchers park. He’s one of the best centerfielders in baseball. The replacing of Damon and Matsui with Granderson and Johnson is a net plus. Especially when you add defense to the equation. Damon was awful defensively. That BP metric is the only defensive metric that shows Damon to be any good in the outfield. UZR and ZR strongly disagree. Granderson and Melky is a much better defensive combination than Melky with Damon. Nick and Matsui are equally productive, just in different ways. Cashman is having a great offseason. He’s doing a great job.

  181. chistina25 December 19th, 2009 at 1:04 am

    At that time Tex wasnt a GG winner or MVP candidate. He didnt hit any homeruns for more than 3 weeks. There were other players that had better statistics than him but they couldnt start the game because all the Yankee fans were voting for him for the sake of voting. I didnt say that he didnt deserve to be in the All star game. I said that he didnt deserve to start. That is the downside of fans voting for players. They just vote for the name not for their true ability

  182. tk December 19th, 2009 at 1:04 am

    “his defense, as bad as it may look, is perfectly playable in left field. He was 4 runs above average out there per BP this year- while that metric is far from foolproof, it says something.”

    What is this stat? Do you have a link?

  183. David December 19th, 2009 at 1:05 am

    OBP is a far more important stat than batting average. He makes less out than just about any hitter in baseball and that’s the most important thing. If you can’t get that, I’ll just give up. It isn’t worth my time. I’ll just say you are completely wrong about Nick Johnson’s value and his ops+ completely proves that.

  184. rodg12 December 19th, 2009 at 1:07 am

    David -
    Don’t bother man. G-C has been polluting numerous threads with his drivel.

  185. Nick in SF December 19th, 2009 at 1:10 am

    I want this Holliday thing settled so that Lost in Taiwan – Wang Is can start posting.

  186. Buddy Biancalana December 19th, 2009 at 1:10 am

    Walks are a big part of the game, can’t discount them.

  187. G-C December 19th, 2009 at 1:12 am

    Granderson was flat out lucky in 2007, a little less lucky in 2008, and finally just normal in 2009. He will never again be the player he was in those years, unless he gets ridiculously lucky again. Do you realize that BABIPs above .350 generally happen once or twice in any player’s career, if that? This is a mediocre ballplayer, a vastly overrated center-fielder because he happens to look like a track star in the outfield, when in reality is routes are circuitous and his arm is a modest improvement over Damon’s. He’s a nice centerfielder at that price, but the only sense in acquiring him is if we subsequently brought back BOTH cogs to last year’s championship team. We did neither, and instead brought in a piece of glass who will be lucky to garner 300 PAs next year. Nick is a useful player, a below average one for his position, but useful nonetheless. Thinking you can pencil him in for 120 games as a regular DH is just asking for trouble.

    Cashman is doing a horrendous job, he needlessly ripped the heart out of a championship team and chose two dubious replacements for guys who simply didn’t need replacing. And now he’s casting a fourth outfielder who he relegated to the bench at the beginning of last year as the team’s starting player at a premium offensive position.

    In his ten plus years of running this team I have almost never been critical of Brian Cashman. I’m sorry though, I just can’t see anything redeeming about these moves. He’d better hope the other pieces of the offense are ready to sustain what they did last year and that Hughes and Joba take steps to become the starters they are capable of being (if he gives them the chance, which I doubt he will). Otherwise this could be a disappointing season.

  188. Phil December 19th, 2009 at 1:12 am

    Batting average is merely a component of OBP. Players who have high batting averages but low OBP’s are overrated by the general public. Guys who have low batting average but high OBP’s are underrated by the general public. It’s just ignorance. The object of an ab is to not use one of your team’s 27 outs. Guys with low OBP’s make too many outs and hurt their teams. Guys with high OBP’s make fewer outs and help their teams. It’s a really easy concept. People who don’t undertand it from the outs used perspective don’t really understand baseball. It’s a game everyone thinkgs they know, but most really don’t.

  189. Pat M. December 19th, 2009 at 1:12 am

    2 Time MVP Roger Maris had a lifetime obs of 345……Cal Ripken .340 / Williw McCovey .374 / Al Kaline .376….They all pale to Nick Johnsom, so what…..You mean to tell me you’d rather have Nick Johnson and his .402 obs dh’ing over Roger Maris and his weak .345……Get a clue guys, it’s a stat that is supportive of a player’s profile…..

  190. dee December 19th, 2009 at 1:14 am

    Why does everyone talk about Nick Johnson like the guy is going to break just from walking from his couch to his kitchen? I can’t believe the overreacting that goes on here. I loved Matsui and really wished that he would come back, but he was just as much, if not more, of an injury risk. And, Nick is younger. He will be a Yankee for one year. One year.

    And they haven’t even played any games yet. Maybe Johnson will be better #2 than Damon, maybe not. But if you think Cash is dismantling a championship team you’re wrong. They were FA. Matsui jumped at an offer too quick. Damon overplayed his hand. Cash is working with what he’s got and he’s done damn well. I just don’t understand all the complaining.

  191. G-C December 19th, 2009 at 1:17 am

    I’m complaining because Cashman never had any intention of bringing back Matsui or Damon to begin with. I bet if he could have had either for free he wouldn’t have done so. And that is what I am having a really, really difficult time understanding. He gave Damon 4/52 four years ago, now he’s a BETTER offensive player than he was then and he’s priced out of the 2/25 range? Are you kidding me?

  192. dee December 19th, 2009 at 1:17 am

    “Granderson was flat out lucky in 2007, a little less lucky in 2008, and finally just normal in 2009. He will never again be the player he was in those years, unless he gets ridiculously lucky again.”

    Oh and Granderson is not lucky. He is talented. How about we take him out of CF and put Melky back there and put Gardner in LF. Now you have a championship caliber team! Really? Granderson will be a great Yankee.

  193. David December 19th, 2009 at 1:18 am

    Sportwriters 100 years ago thought batting average was a more useful statistic. Doctors used to treat disease with blood letting. We don’t criticize the medical profession for progress and we should be afraid of progress in the stats we use to evaluate baseball players.

  194. G-C December 19th, 2009 at 1:19 am

    How about giving me a more statistically based retort than “Granderson is talented?”

    Granderson is talented, as talented as he performed in 2006 and 2009, not as talented as he performed in 2007 and 2008. His unsustainable BABIP and triples numbers are pretty strong evidence of that. He’s a damn useful centerfielder even at his 2006 and 2009 level, but acting as if he can replace what Matsui or Damon gave us offensively is pipe-dreaming.

  195. Pat M. December 19th, 2009 at 1:19 am

    Reggie Jackson .356 obs…..Other than Roger Maris all the above players are in the Hall….You hit your way to Cooperstown, the All-Star game…..Run production wins games….Tony Perex, an rbi machine lifetime obs .341…..I respect what you’re saying, but it’s not the singular element of a ballplayer…..

  196. dee December 19th, 2009 at 1:21 am

    “Run production wins games”

    That’s why we have Tex and AROD.

  197. David December 19th, 2009 at 1:22 am

    Reggie’s OBP was 100 points higher than his average. He walked a lot. He just hit for a lower average. Of course that was dragged down because he played longer than he should have.

  198. Rich in NJ December 19th, 2009 at 1:23 am

    Branch Rickey talked about the importance of OBA decades ago.

  199. Pat M. December 19th, 2009 at 1:23 am

    David, Pro scouts don’t go to HS games or Clooge games because some player is walking walk….They flock to see someone hit, and produce runs…..Bottom line….

  200. David December 19th, 2009 at 1:24 am

    Tex and A-Rod are high obp guys as well as power hitters. That’s what makes them elite. Damon was not elite. Nor was Matsui.

  201. David December 19th, 2009 at 1:25 am

    The next time you are sick, go to the doctor for a blood letting.

    Scouts most certainly do look at plate discipline. Its one reason Cano wasn’t thought of as a better prospect.

  202. Phil December 19th, 2009 at 1:26 am

    Pat, Roger was about 27% above average for his career and in his best years his OBP was over .370 which is very good. Anything over .360 is good. In some era’s it’s an even lower number and probably was at the tail end of Roger’s career which was played in an extream pitcher’s era.

    Now, the only problem with Nick has been all the freak injuries. If he had had normal health he’d be a very expensive player indeed. Roger’s career SLG is about .476, Nick’s is about .447. Anyway, outside of `60 and `61, if Nick is healthy, I’d rather have him up.

  203. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 1:27 am

    Jeter is not a run producer…….I’m not sure I understand.

    I will say that the way people talk about Johnson, it’s like he’s some terrific hitter. His career average is .273; he doesn’t hit a lot of doubles (except for 2 years) and he doesn’t hit a lot of HRs. I don’t care about the HRs because the Yanks have other players to play the part of thumper, but Nick the Stick isn’t the best nickname for him. I thought he was a better hitter.

  204. Phil December 19th, 2009 at 1:27 am

    Miller Huggins, John McGraw and Joe McCarthy all made their players walk. Huggins and McGraw both walked a ton when they were players. It’s silly to think walks weren’t always important.

  205. David December 19th, 2009 at 1:31 am

    Nick’s nickname is OBP Jesus.

  206. David December 19th, 2009 at 1:33 am

    And that career average is dragged down by two out of context bad years. Most of his seasons are between 280-290 with OBPs of over 400. That’s outstanding.

  207. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 1:33 am

    David, I like the signing, but Nick won’t be walking a lot with Tex and Alex behind him……he needs to hit.

  208. Bronx Jeers December 19th, 2009 at 1:34 am

    If Damon/Boras called Cash with 2/22 million 10 days ago?

    The 2 sides probably could have worked it out and Damon would still be a Yankee.

    And everybody would have jumped for joy if we knew we could have Matsui back @ 1yr/6.5 and Johnny at 2/20 mil.

    Not that C-Grand and Nicky Stix are bad choices for the $$$ they’re getting but we all know how much Hideki/Johnny contributed to this championship. And we’re talking 6 mil in savings while losing a major CF prospect and a couple of promising arms in the process.

    I’m not complaining but Cash is being frugal for whose sake exactly?

  209. Phil December 19th, 2009 at 1:35 am

    Ruth .474 OBP
    Mantle .421 OBP
    DiMaggio .398 OBP
    Gehrig .447 OBP
    Keller .410 OBP
    Henrich .382 OBP

    Murcer used to take his walks, White did, Tresh did… It’s nothing new and the Yanks have always done it.

  210. David December 19th, 2009 at 1:37 am

    Betsy-He’ll walk just as he always has. He’s the perfect number 2 hitter.

  211. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 1:37 am

    David, he’s had some good years with the bat, but just as many poor ones. I won’t count 2001, his first year, but 2002, 2004 and 2008 weren’t good at all…..He seems inconsistent.

  212. Rich in NJ December 19th, 2009 at 1:38 am

    “And everybody would have jumped for joy if we knew we could have Matsui back @ 1yr/6.5 and Johnny at 2/20 mil.”

    Two years for Damon would have been a very poor allocation of resources given his age, their payroll commitments, new contracts for Jeter and Mo, and a great FA class in 2011.

  213. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 1:39 am

    Granderson is a very good player – we didn’t give up AJax and Kennedy for junk. I like AJax, but what are the odds that he becomes as good (or close) as Granderson?

    So, do we just hold onto players for sentimental reasons?

  214. Pat M. December 19th, 2009 at 1:41 am

    I understand the importance of the obs stat, however it is not the end all way to evaluate a ballplayer……As I said earlier, pitchers are goinf right after him this season…….Like Vince Scully said, you use stats like a drunk uses a lamp post, for support rather than illumination

  215. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 1:42 am

    Tyler Kepner made it sound like the Yankees got gipped because Damon was the perfect #2 hitter (as Cash admitted). Sure – and how long was Damong going to be so perfect? He had a bad last month or so, with zero HRs; he looked dreadful in the field……..I love Damon, but geez Tyler – the Yankees can’t go on without him?

  216. Pat M. December 19th, 2009 at 1:43 am

    Phil, very good hall of Famers… I also threw out Ripken, McCovey, Kaline, Perez, Jackson all with what you would consider poor obs……Cal was a .340 obs, are you telling me he’s a chump ?????

  217. David December 19th, 2009 at 1:44 am

    Betsy-From 03-09 His ops+ was

    138
    93
    137
    149
    124
    122

    Most of his poor years were at the very beginning of his career. That’s also when he was recovering from the wrist injury.

  218. David December 19th, 2009 at 1:44 am

    Cal was a massively overrated player because of the streak.

  219. Phil December 19th, 2009 at 1:46 am

    Combs .397 OBP
    Selkirk .400 OBP
    Rolfe .360 OBP
    Gordon .357 OBP

    The guys who went off to WWII in their primes lost peak seasons and there career OBP’s suffered as a result. Players who play into their 40′s generally see their career OBP’s go down, cause their BA’s go down, but many keep helping their teams by walking, etc.

  220. CompassRosy December 19th, 2009 at 1:47 am

    Sacrificefly
    December 18th, 2009 at 11:33 pm
    CompassRosy
    What about swisher to base the trade around? He plays first /DH Brings a power bat to your line up.Is that fair? Deff agree with CB your team is making great moves. Easily got the Angels number.

    I think I’ll leave it to Jack Z … clearly the team’s in good hands :-)

    As for having the Halos number …
    I guess we’ll see come spring, summer (and hopefully fall!)

    All I know is that is is really great to feel confident that there is finally someone in charge who seems to have a plan and is marching to it. The M’s GMs have gone from “Stand Pat” to “Bumbling Bill” to “Jumping Jack”

    Speaking of Jack, apparently not many know him…

    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn.....llId=83160

  221. Rich in NJ December 19th, 2009 at 1:47 am

    Pat M.

    “I understand the importance of the obs stat, however it is not the end all way to evaluate a ballplayer…”

    What single stat is better?

  222. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 1:48 am

    David, was his .220 average in 2008 the result of his wrist injury ? I’m surprised he was able to play through it….

    I appreciate you posting the stats……what explains the .251 in 2005?

  223. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2009 at 1:48 am

    As far as how the Teixeira negotiations went last year, people are forgetting the one huge advantage has over Boston. NY didn’t have Larry Luccino talking for them.

  224. David December 19th, 2009 at 1:50 am

    2008 he came back at the end of the year after that freakish leg injury at the end of 07 season. Everyone else was in midseason form. I don’t know what happened to him in 04 in Montreal. That was the .251 year.

  225. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 1:52 am

    GB, how you’re doing?

    LOL true………and also, no John Henry flying in for the kill, then sending out some sort of memo declaring the Sox out of the game, then tweeting to his heart’s content.

  226. Jeremy December 19th, 2009 at 1:52 am

    G-C
    Please just stop ! Can you please cry on another blog because no one cares. Granderson is a really good player he will be a good Yankee and the Yankees have moved on, get over it !

  227. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 1:53 am

    David, I will take a look at his stats again tomorrow. I do like NJ a lot – I loved him when he was in NY. The fact that he took less $$ (and is giving up 1B) to come back here speaks volumes.

  228. Jerkface December 19th, 2009 at 1:55 am

    Pat M – Are you saying Ripken was a good hitter? He had some good years but for the most part he was fairly average. Not even as good as Matsui. He is not a hall of famer for his hitting, its for his overall contributions to the game and for changing the position he played.

    You are being very obstinate and not making good arguments about this.

  229. Phil December 19th, 2009 at 1:57 am

    Pat,

    Cal was a little overrated as an offensive player. About 12% above average for his career. But that’s very good for a shortstop. And based on his batting averages his OBP could have been a lot worse.

  230. Jerkface December 19th, 2009 at 1:58 am

    On base is a great stat because it tells you how often a player makes an out, and everyone forgets that batting average is a component of on base, so players with good batting averages should have a good on base, and players that don’t you should question why not.

    That is not to say that low on base / high average guys can’t be good, but there is not the technology alive that can tell us what a team full of everyones favorite high average low on base players would do against a team of on base mavens in a full season.

    But I think its silly to argue against a fundamental of the game, as in not making an out. You only get 27 of them(depending!)

  231. Bronx Jeers December 19th, 2009 at 2:00 am

    Sure Damon year to year would have been ideal but when Abreu got 2 years, Damon’s “Yankee price” was set. They’re the same age and with similar production. Like everybody is saying, Damon was the perfect fit.

    And lets not call the class of 2011 the gold standard.

    Mauer most likely re-ups with Minny. Beckett? No.

    Lee and Webb. That’s it. Webb’s made a career in the weakest division in baseball and Lee will be 33 in 2011. And he’s no Doc Halladay.

    Don’t get me wrong because if all this penny pinching is because they want Holliday this is moot but if it turns out that they just wanted to save 3% on the 2010 salary? Shame on them.

    Following/being a fan of the Yankees is an expensive hobby for many. The Yankees don’t need to penny pinch and the fans wouldn’t have complained if Hideki and Matsui were part of the 2010 team.

    Anybody who says otherwise is rationalizing.

  232. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2009 at 2:01 am

    Pat M.
    December 19th, 2009 at 1:19 am
    Reggie Jackson .356 obs…..Other than Roger Maris all the above players are in the Hall….You hit your way to Cooperstown, the All-Star game…..Run production wins games….Tony Perex, an rbi machine lifetime obs .341…..I respect what you’re saying, but it’s not the singular element of a ballplayer…..

    ————————————————————

    Had Maris not had his hand mangled in a collision at home plate with catcher Earl Batey and the home plate umpire in 1965, he wou;d have cruised into the HOF. He never had the power or the swing after that. His other main injuries were a continuing problem with torn/pulled hamstrings, beginning in 1963. Tony Conigliaro was another outfielder that was well on his way to Cooperstown.

  233. David December 19th, 2009 at 2:03 am

    Only Yankees fans could call a team with a current payroll of around 190 million penny pinching.

  234. Bronx Jeers December 19th, 2009 at 2:03 am

    “the fans wouldn’t have complained if Hideki and Matsui were part of the 2010 team.”

    Sorry, should be DAMON and Matsui.

  235. Jerkface December 19th, 2009 at 2:04 am

    Many of Reggie’s best years or average years were characterized by high on base % through walking, often with a low batting average as well.

    His career numbers are destroyed by his 1000 PAs where he batted under .200 and onbased under .300. Its not like you can say “Reggie didn’t care about on base or walking’ because walking was about all he could do those years, and its not like he excelled at hitting then either.

  236. Jerkface December 19th, 2009 at 2:05 am

    I can’t afford $100 but I’d lay down $10 that Nick Johnson ends the year with a higher wOBA than Matsui.

  237. carl December 19th, 2009 at 2:06 am

    Feels so good not having to read about how we need to get rid of A-Rod because “we can’t win with him”. This has to be the best off season in a long time for that simple fact alone!

    A-Rod Granderson CC at the food drive.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmUG08mf-88

  238. David December 19th, 2009 at 2:07 am

    The more interesting issue is who plays in more games.

  239. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2009 at 2:07 am

    Betsy – high on pie
    December 19th, 2009 at 1:52 am
    GB, how you’re doing?

    LOL true………and also, no John Henry flying in for the kill, then sending out some sort of memo declaring the Sox out of the game, then tweeting to his heart’s content.

    ————————————————————

    I’m doing pretty well, Betsy. Thanks for asking. Just woke up. I missed supper (thank God), so I woke up hungry. I went to the kitchen to raid the refrigerator, only to realize that my refrigerator was 600 miles away. They also don’t allow pizza deliveries to patients.

  240. Phil December 19th, 2009 at 2:07 am

    If DHing keeps Nick Johnson healthy for a full year, it’s gonna be fun watching him grind up the other teams pitchers and get the other guys grinding all the time.

  241. Pat M. December 19th, 2009 at 2:08 am

    Ever since the conception of the game of baseball, it’s about hitting the ball…..So to answer you Rich, it really all starts with a players batting average…Run production and total bases …..If you hit, you’ll get on base…..Johnson’s obs is bizzare because he’s an average hitter how whiffs more than he walks……You hit, you drive in runs and of course you’ll score runs…..

  242. Rich in NJ December 19th, 2009 at 2:08 am

    “Sure Damon year to year would have been ideal but when Abreu got 2 years, Damon’s “Yankee price” was set.”

    No, it wasn’t Why does one team have to make a dumb decision merely because another made a dumb decision?

    Comparable contracts have weight, but they are’t dispositive.

    Fortunately, Cash is an independent thinker.

    To call it penny pinching is to adopt a overly narrow and distorted view.

    If they want to keep their payroll at or near $200m, while keeping Jeter and Mo, and being able to be in play for Beckett (if only to drive the RS price up), Lee, Mauer*, or whomever, giving Damon a contact for 2011 would have been a significant impediment.

    Posada will likely DH 70 games in 2011. We don’t need a declining 38 year old Damon making big bucks to DH too.

    To view it any other way is indeed rationalizing.

    *Until he is signed, it’s fair to think he could be a FA

  243. David December 19th, 2009 at 2:08 am

    Yep Phil.This is going to be a great offense, just a little different.

  244. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2009 at 2:11 am

    Cliff Lee is aparently not all that pleased with the trade to Seattle. I wonder if he forces another trade before the season starts?

  245. Azaz December 19th, 2009 at 2:11 am

    im getting the same feeling i did when arod opted out. For some reason i think johnny is gonna find his way back to the bronx.

  246. Jerkface December 19th, 2009 at 2:11 am

    Johnson’s obs is bizzare because he’s an average hitter how whiffs more than he walks

    He has walked more, or incredibly close to, his strike outs in more of his years than not.

    Additionally, a hit is the best way to score an RBI, but the only way to score runs is to get on base and Nick Johnson is one of the best at doing that.

  247. Rich in NJ December 19th, 2009 at 2:13 am

    Pat

    Did you read the article by Branch Rickey that I linked above:

    “The correlation showed that OBA went hand in glove with runs scored. When one was high for a team, so was the other. Clutch was just as strong, but extra base power had a lower correlation.”

  248. Phil December 19th, 2009 at 2:13 am

    Pat,

    He’s never struck out 100 times in a single season and has walked 110 times in a single season. Overall his walks are within about 40 of his K’s, and some of his K’s came about cause the ump called a ball a strike. I don’t know what your problem is with this homegrown Yankee, but he’s damn good hitter when he’s healthy, and he’s likely to go off in the new stadium.

  249. Jerkface December 19th, 2009 at 2:14 am

    Matsui whiffs more than he walks as well. Matsui does 1 thing better than Nick Johnson, hit for power.

    Nick Johnson hits more line drives as categorized by major league baseball than Matsui, but Matsui can drive them further. They’ve both had good seasons batting average wise.

  250. Rich in NJ December 19th, 2009 at 2:14 am

    Azaz

    Damon has about 1/10000 the leverage that A-Rod had, because the latter really wasn’t replaceable, while the former can be easily replaced.

  251. Pat M. December 19th, 2009 at 2:16 am

    Jerkface, You’re missing the point, It’s the total package that counts…The Great George Brett had an obs .369 and only once did he walk 100 times…..In fact he only walked more than 80 times twice, yet he accounted for 190 runs per season …And that was his lifetime average….He hit 30 dingers once , he was a hitting machine….He walked maybe 60 times a season, never whiffed more than he walked though…..

  252. Jerkface December 19th, 2009 at 2:18 am

    Matsui hit .274 this season, Nick Johnson hit .273. So even by batting average they are very similiar. I’d think Johnson will be better going forward because he has knees that can support him. I would not be surprised if Matsui but up another huge year because he owns, but its not like he dominates NJ in any category other than power.

    And we’ve yet to see NJ 1 full year removed from injury in NYS.

  253. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2009 at 2:20 am

    Phil
    December 19th, 2009 at 2:13 am
    Pat,

    He’s never struck out 100 times in a single season and has walked 110 times in a single season. Overall his walks are within about 40 of his K’s, and some of his K’s came about cause the ump called a ball a strike. I don’t know what your problem is with this homegrown Yankee, but he’s damn good hitter when he’s healthy, and he’s likely to go off in the new stadium.

    ————————————————————

    How do you know that a lot of Johnson’s walks didn’t happen because the umpires balled strikes as balls.

    This will be another three weeks of yammering about Johnson’s walking ability. I’d prefer the guy that gets hits to drive in runs over somebody that prefers to let somebody else clean up the bags.

  254. David December 19th, 2009 at 2:22 am

    George Brett played during a pitchers era. A 369 OBP in that era is extremely impressive.

  255. Jerkface December 19th, 2009 at 2:23 am

    Jerkface, You’re missing the point, It’s the total package that counts

    Nick Johnson, as a total power, merely lacks speed and above average power. And he has shown flashes of power in his career. He hits line drives like crazy and gets on base. You’re diminishing his value unfairly because you are ascribing the ‘looking to walk’ stereotype to him when its not even true.

    Also I don’t know what your problem is with past players. Those were different eras and many of the good ones walked alot.

    George Brett, in his best seasons, either walked alot or hit for a high enough average he didn’t have to.

    OBP% above .350 is great. Many great players had on bases around that much. Many ultra-elite best ever guys had OBP way flippin higher!

  256. Abdababdaserser December 19th, 2009 at 2:23 am

    GreenBeret7, I think Lee was more upset over being thrown away by the Phillies, they didn’t even really try to extend him, rather than him not being a happy camper in Seattle.

    I’d be surprised if he demands a trade.

  257. Bronx Jeers December 19th, 2009 at 2:24 am

    “Only Yankees fans could call a team with a current payroll of around 190 million penny pinching.”

    I think it was SJ44 that said that the Yanks spend roughly the same % of revenue on player payroll as the rest of the MLB teams. Around 30-35 %.

    You can get a pretty good seat behind the plate at many MLB stadiums for what it costs to park your car at Yankee Stadium. Yankee fans pay their share.

    Matsui had one of the best games of his career in the 177th game last season. I’m sure 99% of Yankee fans were screaming for his return by the 4th inning of that game.

    If Nick Johnson is worth 5.5 mil then Hideki was probably worth 6.5.

  258. Jerkface December 19th, 2009 at 2:25 am

    How do you know that a lot of Johnson’s walks didn’t happen because the umpires balled strikes as balls.

    This will be another three weeks of yammering about Johnson’s walking ability. I’d prefer the guy that gets hits to drive in runs over somebody that prefers to let somebody else clean up the bags.

    How do you know a lot of hits weren’t because a scorer called an error a hit? Thats ridiculous. I suppose Robinson Cano is your favorite player? We all see what swinging the bat can get you when you run into bad luck for a season.

  259. Phil December 19th, 2009 at 2:25 am

    Pat,

    I told you above anything above .360 is considered good and long careers will bring the career OBP number down for a lot of players. Jerkface illustrated how when he talked about Reggie Jackson. So Brett had good on base skills. One of the reasons everyone considers Mike Schmidt better, though is he had a .380 OBP to go along with his greater power.

  260. David December 19th, 2009 at 2:27 am

    Overpaying because of what Matsui did in the world series would be a huge mistake. No matter what the fans wanted. He’s 38 years old with ticking time bombs for knees. It was time to move on.

  261. Pat M. December 19th, 2009 at 2:27 am

    Alright guys, Once again I have always liked Nick Johnson as I thought his career would play out similar to Garrett Anderson…This all started with yankee fan’s ( formar twins fan ) comment that Nick Anderson is a better than Matsui, and I’m not in anyway or in any lifetime buying that nonsense…..It’s simply so far fetch I should have just dismissed it and save myself all this bs…..Rich, Phil, Jerkface you have over time have proven to many here that you know the game….However, there is no way I’m buying Johnson over Matsui, it’s absurd….And Nick Johnson gas a very high strikeout % per offical ab….He k’s more than he walks, he produces little in run production and total bases….The shame is all the injuries have deprived him of whjat was a very promising career, for he had a sweet swing……Unless Cashman comes up with a hitting leftfielder the spotlight on Nick will not shine bright….

  262. Phil December 19th, 2009 at 2:29 am

    How do I know the umps didn’t call strikes balls? I’m sure they did sometimes, but he has a consistent and well established ability to get on base and thus we can easily conclude he has command of the strikezone and doesn’t swing at bad pitches.

    Now, I hope you’re feeling better GB.

  263. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2009 at 2:29 am

    Jerkface
    December 19th, 2009 at 2:25 am
    How do you know that a lot of Johnson’s walks didn’t happen because the umpires balled strikes as balls.

    This will be another three weeks of yammering about Johnson’s walking ability. I’d prefer the guy that gets hits to drive in runs over somebody that prefers to let somebody else clean up the bags.

    How do you know a lot of hits weren’t because a scorer called an error a hit? Thats ridiculous. I suppose Robinson Cano is your favorite player? We all see what swinging the bat can get you when you run into bad luck for a season.

    ————————————————————

    I’m not the one that brought up the idra that Johnson’s strikeouts were because of the umpire calling balls as strikes.

    Try reading instead of trying to live up the the first part of your SN.

  264. Jerkface December 19th, 2009 at 2:29 am

    I am certainly not arguing NJ over Matsui. Matsui was always my #1 choice, but NJ is not a bad choice, and could even excel in the 5 hole if given a shot.

    And I’ll still bet you 10$ he has a nicer season in NYS surrounded by the best talent in the game than Matsui will being platooned with Mike Napoli in Anaheim!

  265. Azaz December 19th, 2009 at 2:30 am

    damon> nj also matsui>nj and its not even close. The game isnt played on the statsheet.

  266. Jerkface December 19th, 2009 at 2:30 am

    GB7: That argument is dumb because it works both ways as you mentioned, apologies as you just pointed that fact out correctly.

  267. Phil December 19th, 2009 at 2:32 am

    Pat,

    his total bases are lowish cause he’s been on craptastic teams and once he got on base there’s been no one to move him along. His SLG is fine and will go up with health. He just took less money to come back to the Yanks, and we’re lucky he did.

  268. Jerkface December 19th, 2009 at 2:32 am

    Damon over NJ we’re going to have problems with.

    The full package? Then maybe Prime-Damon vs Prime-NJ because Damon played center, but in a vacuum as hitters? Damon doesn’t have Matsui’s patience or power, nor Nick Johnson’s.

  269. CompassRosy December 19th, 2009 at 2:32 am

    GreenBeret7
    December 19th, 2009 at 2:11 am
    Cliff Lee is aparently not all that pleased with the trade to Seattle. I wonder if he forces another trade before the season starts?

    I read/heard it as more like he was upset with Philly sort of misleading him. You can hardly blame him for being a bit shocked though. Anyhoo, he’ll soon find out that to know us is to love us :-)

  270. Pat M. December 19th, 2009 at 2:33 am

    David, You must have noticed that I omitted you from Rich, Phil & Jerkface in regards to their astute knowledge of the game…..It’s simply due to the fact that you know Jack about baseball……I may disagree with them on this particular issue, that being said all you do is try to rationalize your irrational comments…….As I stated earlier, start with a Topps Baseball card and read left to right…..It also comes with gum, be sure to brush your teeth afterwards……

  271. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2009 at 2:34 am

    Abdababdaserser
    December 19th, 2009 at 2:23 am
    GreenBeret7, I think Lee was more upset over being thrown away by the Phillies, they didn’t even really try to extend him, rather than him not being a happy camper in Seattle.

    I’d be surprised if he demands a trade.

    ————————————————————

    After listening to his phone conversation on MLB, he wasn’t happy, regardless of the reason. He’s not a troublemaker type, but, he’ll never extend his contract. He obviously expected a new contract with Phillie.

  272. Phil December 19th, 2009 at 2:35 am

    scuse me, injuries have kept his total bases down, his runs scored were hurt by crappy teams. He did score 100 runs as a 27 year old.

  273. Azaz December 19th, 2009 at 2:37 am

    ur on crack ur just defending a yankee move trust me if the the red sox signed him me and u would be laughing at them rite now . How does this whole board become nj lovers when 2 weeks ago nobody mentioned him.

  274. Phil December 19th, 2009 at 2:40 am

    Azaz,

    People have been calling for Nick Johnson over here for the whole offseason. In the years Giambi was having problems, many were hoping the Yanks would get him back. And they tried to. I don’t know where you’ve been.

  275. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2009 at 2:40 am

    another thing/misconception about Johnson is, that he does in fact strike out a lot. Based on 534 At Bats in a 162 season, he strikes out 110 times. Yes, he gets his walks, but, for a first baseman/DH, he’s not much of a run producer. It had to be a joke that somebody said that he’s never struck out 100 times. That’s true as far as it goes. He’s had 98 and 99 strikeout years. he’s also only had 3 years of more than 500 plate appearances.

  276. Azaz December 19th, 2009 at 2:42 am

    lemme say simply nick johnson is NOT a better ballplayer then johnny damon who is an absolute gamer. How many rallies did he start this year? on another note gnite and i hope nj has a great year in 2010 to make me shut up.

  277. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2009 at 2:43 am

    CompassRosy
    December 19th, 2009 at 2:32 am
    GreenBeret7
    December 19th, 2009 at 2:11 am
    Cliff Lee is aparently not all that pleased with the trade to Seattle. I wonder if he forces another trade before the season starts?

    I read/heard it as more like he was upset with Philly sort of misleading him. You can hardly blame him for being a bit shocked though. Anyhoo, he’ll soon find out that to know us is to love us

    ————————————————————

    Oh!! Rosy…Rosy..Rosy. That’s like saying the kid has a face that only a mother could love.

  278. Jerkface December 19th, 2009 at 2:44 am

    How does this whole board become nj lovers when 2 weeks ago nobody mentioned him.

    I was high on NJ for far longer than 2 weeks ago. And he probably became a topic of discussion when MATSUI SIGNED WITH THE ANGELS. HELLO. I think it was near unanimous that blog posters wanted Matsui back, especially at 6 mil. It is unfortunate that Matsui’s agent did not want to work with Cashman on that. He was looking out for Hideki and as a new husband and soon to be father I’m sure Hideki was looking out for himself as well.

  279. Phil December 19th, 2009 at 2:45 am

    Nick’s career OPS+ is 125. Damon’s is 105. Matsui is 124. His EqA’s are better than their’s, too.

    GB, he can only play as much as he plays. He’s had some freaky health stuff. And you know nobody enjoys being kept away from what they love.

  280. Nick in SF December 19th, 2009 at 2:46 am

    Between them, Swisher and Johnson have seen more pitches than any other pair of Nicks in the last decade.

    Hideki Matsui and Hideki Ramzolez are not even close.

  281. Jerkface December 19th, 2009 at 2:46 am

    FACT: Nick Johnson has literally never started a rally

  282. Jerkface December 19th, 2009 at 2:47 am

    Nick Johnson and Nick Swisher vs Hideki Matsui and Kazuo Matsui, cage fight, glass fists, who wins?

  283. Jerkface December 19th, 2009 at 2:48 am

    You could also fight Hideki Okajima. I think the glass knees lose it.

  284. Bronx Jeers December 19th, 2009 at 2:48 am

    “Overpaying because of what Matsui did in the world series would be a huge mistake. ”

    I just don’t think giving Hideki 6.5 mil(50% paycut) would be overpaying. I think it’s a sweet deal.

    And Nick is a fine player but nobody’s going to be pitching around him to face Tex and Arod. Nick’s gonna see strikes and lots of them if he’s indeed going to bat 2nd.

    Personally I don’t really care too much because regardless they’re going to be a great team and I’m sure it will be a lot of fun to watch which is the whole point. Championships are just icing on the cake.

    But I like the fact that the Yanks have always seemed to invest in player retention. Damon and Hideki were great players, great Yankees, fan favorites and they were still very productive.

    Now it seems like they both could have returned at relatively cheap prices and I don’t necessarily buy into the idea that keeping them would have kept the Yanks out of the 2011 free agent market.

  285. dee December 19th, 2009 at 2:49 am

    Hideki and Damon left us! Not the other way around. I wish them the best, but we went with the best alternative out there. And the best part is, Cash is still not done! NJ wants to be a Yankee. Badly. And was willing to take less pay than he would have gotten from another team. Can’t say the same for Damon.

  286. Jerkface December 19th, 2009 at 2:49 am

    And Nick is a fine player but nobody’s going to be pitching around him to face Tex and Arod. Nick’s gonna see strikes and lots of them if he’s indeed going to bat 2nd.

    We’ll see how well any pitcher fairs against the Yankee lineup, its not like batting infront of Tex or A-rod means pitchers gain some kind of Zen control where they won’t walk NJ. Additionally, NJ has a 20%+ line drive rate for his career, I don’t think he’ll be phased by fastballs.

  287. Phil December 19th, 2009 at 2:49 am

    I remember Nick hitting a Grand Slam against the stinking Sox, and another time he went 4-5 against Pedro and others.

  288. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2009 at 2:53 am

    Phil
    December 19th, 2009 at 2:45 am
    Nick’s career OPS+ is 125. Damon’s is 105. Matsui is 124. His EqA’s are better than their’s, too.

    GB, he can only play as much as he plays. He’s had some freaky health stuff. And you know nobody enjoys being kept away from what they love.

    ————————————————————

    Johnson’s history says he’ll log more hospital time than I will.

    Not all of his injuries are “freaky”. Hamate bone, pulled muscles, knee injury, a torn ligament in his wrist, broken leg. He’s not injury prone, but, Matsui and Damon are?

  289. Nick in SF December 19th, 2009 at 2:53 am

    Bronx Jeers, you don’t sound completely on board with the new program.

    Change is difficult.
    Faith is fleeting.

    Many of those I respect the most here are sour.

    I hold out hope that there is good news to come and we’ll all appreciate the final product even though it hurts to say goodbye.

  290. Jerkface December 19th, 2009 at 2:55 am

    I cannot believe you included a BROKEN LEG on his list of ‘not freaky’ injuries. It was very much freaky.

  291. Phil December 19th, 2009 at 2:57 am

    He broke his leg cause some else ran into him. Matsui is as injury prone ever since he broke his wrist in the outfield. Johnny is not as injury prone as either of them, though he does come out of World Series games cause his calf tightens up.

    I hope neither you nor Nick spend any more time in hospitals.

  292. Rich in NJ December 19th, 2009 at 2:58 am

    Azaz,

    “ur on crack”

    Way to make a factual rebuttal.

    “How does this whole board become nj lovers when 2 weeks ago nobody mentioned him.”

    It was discussed on other blogs. I thought he wasn’t an option because he wanted two years, and I would be against giving any non-star player two years given their payroll and the 2011 FA class.

  293. Pat M. December 19th, 2009 at 2:58 am

    Nick in SF….I’m still waiting on Yankee fan who was a twins fan to accept my challenge…Jerkface indicated that he was in for $ 10.00 …..At that rate I’ll only pocket 8 bucks, and you get a kid’s meal at MacDonalds with your cut……

  294. The Other Phil (Don't feed the trolls) December 19th, 2009 at 3:00 am

    It’s late night. The trolls are out from under the bridges…

  295. Jerkface December 19th, 2009 at 3:00 am

    In the spirit of giving I will throw in a free foot rub with my 10 bux

  296. Jerkface December 19th, 2009 at 3:01 am

    Also I hate that this blog has forced me to bet against Matsui. Though I should bet against him on principle now that he has joined the hated Angels. What were you thinking, Matsui? Shoulda went to the Giants or Seattle or anywhere but Boston or Anaheim

  297. Jerkface December 19th, 2009 at 3:02 am

    The Yankees might have misread the market on Matsui, but Matsui misread the market on the AL West. He picked the wrong team to hop to. Should have let the FA market clear up a bit before choosing his destination. Matsui will help the former AL west champions, but without Lackey and Figgins they will be hard pressed to staunch the Rangers and Mariners next year.

  298. Nick in SF December 19th, 2009 at 3:04 am

    The foot rubs can be exchanged directly through the betting participants…I do not need 20% of that…unless you’ll outsource that to a parlor in Chinatown.

  299. Phil December 19th, 2009 at 3:05 am

    I hope folks realize you can be a fan of all three players. I certainly am. and I assume most here, but the madman, Azaz, are.

  300. Pat M. December 19th, 2009 at 3:07 am

    Jerkface, a very good humored response….Johnson is in the best situation of his career & I think he’ll prosper…Will his numbers ( overall production ) match Matsui’s , we’ll see although I think not……

  301. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2009 at 3:09 am

    I don’t care whether Johnson’s on the team or not. I only care that he produces runs, and that means driving them in as well as scoring them. He’d certainly not be my replacement choice, though. As far as his defensive abilities, he’s not all that great there, either. Just don’t try pumping him up as something thst he;s not. It was mentioned earlier that he was a great player and a great hitter. He’s neither. He’s no better than average for the position he plays.

  302. Bronx Jeers December 19th, 2009 at 3:11 am

    Meh, It’s nothing a good nights sleep won’t cure.

    I like Nick Johnson. And I’ve always been a fan of C-Grand.

    I’m just throwing my 2 cents in here. And now I’m all out of pennies.

    Frankly I’m surprised anybody cares at all what I have to add.

    Tomorrow I’ll return to my normal LoHud persona.

    Lame jokes, bad references, pointless banter etc etc.

  303. Jerkface December 19th, 2009 at 3:12 am

    http://www.fantasypitchfx.com/DL/injury-tool.php

    This website is pretty awesome. The vast majority of Nick Johnson’s missed time is due to non-standard injury. Fractures and wrist surgery.

    I am feeling optimistic about him going forward.

  304. Pat M. December 19th, 2009 at 3:15 am

    Bronx Jeers, You always bring a sense of levity to the joint…..

  305. JeterJobaCanoFan2010 December 19th, 2009 at 3:19 am

    David
    December 19th, 2009 at 1:44 am
    Cal was a massively overrated player because of the streak.
    ***********************************************************

    It is bald faced statements like this that make me Angry.
    First of all, to make a dumb-ass remark like that w/o any stats is just a dumb ass remark.

    Cal was a student of the game and like Jeter, improved himself as he got older. He was even known to call pitches.

    I watched Cal from his rookie year until his retirement so I know I can speak from a more positive tone than David.

  306. Pat M. December 19th, 2009 at 3:20 am

    GB. With what has been bantered about tonight ( someone suggested they rather have Johnson in the box rather than The Rog ) I’m surprised that Cashman got Johnson so cheap…..For a .273 lifetime hitter he’s fully embraced here at the Hud……I guess a lifetime average of .295 ba, 25 hr’s and 100 plus rbi’s just isn’t waht it used to be….

  307. Pat M. December 19th, 2009 at 3:23 am

    JeterJobaCanoFan,,,,Cal only had a lifetime .340 obs, so forget his MVP, his All-Star selections and most of all just dismiss the fact that He’s in the HallOf Fame….By the way, Merry Christmas…..

  308. Bronx Jeers December 19th, 2009 at 3:23 am

    Levity is my bread.

    Banality is my butter.

    Or is it banality is my bread and levity my butter?

    Let’s just say that levity and banality are my various breads and butters.

    Of course now I’m just plagiarizing.

    Good night all!

  309. CompassRosy December 19th, 2009 at 3:24 am

    Oh!! Rosy…Rosy..Rosy. That’s like saying the kid has a face that only a mother could love.
    Nah. Despite the rain, there’s plenty to love about Seattle.
    I think Cliff will definitely like pitching in Safeco Field( and LOVE the D that will be backing him up!)
    Being somewhat of an outdoorsman, no doubt he’ll appreciate the offerings of the Emerald City and surrounds in that respect as well.

  310. Pat M. December 19th, 2009 at 3:30 am

    GB, those numbers i presented were Matsui’s timecard in Pinstripes…Most impressive

  311. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2009 at 3:45 am

    Pat M.
    December 19th, 2009 at 3:20 am
    GB. With what has been bantered about tonight ( someone suggested they rather have Johnson in the box rather than The Rog ) I’m surprised that Cashman got Johnson so cheap…..For a .273 lifetime hitter he’s fully embraced here at the Hud……I guess a lifetime average of .295 ba, 25 hr’s and 100 plus rbi’s just isn’t waht it used to be….

    ————————————————————

    Like Maris, it was sad to see what injuries did to Matsui’s talents, way too soon. There was a lot of Roger Maris in Matsui’s swing. Jst as it would have been great to see Mantle and Maris’ career numbers as healthy players, I’ve wondered what Matsui’s might have been if he had stayed healthy, but also, if he had begun his baseball career here instead of Japan. It would have been a struggle for him to carry Maris’ glove and arm, though.

  312. Jerkface December 19th, 2009 at 3:48 am

    Major League 1B in 2009 threw up these numbers:

    0.271
    0.360
    0.409
    0.769
    -

    I think Nick is decidedly above average.

  313. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2009 at 3:49 am

    CompassRosy
    December 19th, 2009 at 3:24 am
    Oh!! Rosy…Rosy..Rosy. That’s like saying the kid has a face that only a mother could love.
    Nah. Despite the rain, there’s plenty to love about Seattle.
    I think Cliff will definitely like pitching in Safeco Field( and LOVE the D that will be backing him up!)
    Being somewhat of an outdoorsman, no doubt he’ll appreciate the offerings of the Emerald City and surrounds in that respect as well.

    ————————————————————

    Rosy, I was mostly teasing about the Mariners. They’ve put together a tough team in a short amount of time. Very impressive. The angels are in deep trouble in 2010. I am somewhat surprised that they’ve yet to move on Branyon, though. They’ll need that power.

  314. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2009 at 3:52 am

    Johnson’s walks don’t mean squat if he can’t produce runs. It will take three hits to move him around the bases. He’s an average DH/1st baseman…nothing more.

  315. Pat M. December 19th, 2009 at 3:53 am

    GB, It’s my belief had Matsui played MLB in the States right from the get go, he’d put up HOF consideration numbers…He was so consistent….The warmth of So. Cal will allow him to continue on and have a very fine season…..I’m just agast that so many here have simply chosen to write him off after professing how vital it was to have him return in 2010……It’s beyond being simply a fickle fan…….Bandwagon jumping at it’s finest

  316. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2009 at 3:53 am

    That’s an average run producer. There were better answers.

  317. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2009 at 3:56 am

    Pat M.
    December 19th, 2009 at 3:53 am
    GB, It’s my belief had Matsui played MLB in the States right from the get go, he’d put up HOF consideration numbers…He was so consistent….The warmth of So. Cal will allow him to continue on and have a very fine season…..I’m just agast that so many here have simply chosen to write him off after professing how vital it was to have him return in 2010……It’s beyond being simply a fickle fan…….Bandwagon jumping at it’s finest

    ————————————————————

    That bat and that quiet presence in the line-up will be missed, PaT. So will the leadership that he provides. People think that he can’t speak/understand English, but, that’s bunk. He’s the Mantle-type of leadership…by example and earned respect.

  318. Pat M. December 19th, 2009 at 4:00 am

    Jerkface, what do those numbers represent ???? I never recall Bobby Cox saying to me, ” Patsy go get a walk ” I ended up with a .328 lifetime Minor League ba…No idea what my obs was though….. .328 was the only number I’ll ever remember and care about

  319. Pat M. December 19th, 2009 at 4:01 am

    I wonder what Jeter’s take will be about his departure..The Captain had great respect for Matsui as a teammate and as a man……

  320. CompassRosy December 19th, 2009 at 4:05 am

    I am somewhat surprised that they’ve yet to move on Branyon, though. They’ll need that power.

    Funny, I just posted about this on another NYY board…
    It is my understanding that Russell is very open to returning to Seattle. He loved his time here and appreciated the fact that someone finally gave him an opportunity to start. Unfortunately, he suffered a back injury late in the season (missed the entire month of September). In any case, it is my understanding that the M’s made Russell an offer early on in the off-season, but he’s seeking a two-year deal. Unless they pull off a trade for a first baseman (and who could put anything past Jack Z at this point ;-) seems like the M’s and Russell could get something worked out – as he apparently told the M’s he’d give them the opportunity to match any other suitors’ offers….

    I must admit, even though I’m a pitching and defense kind of gal, Russell’s moonshots are things of beauty.

  321. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2009 at 4:10 am

    Pat M.
    December 19th, 2009 at 4:01 am
    I wonder what Jeter’s take will be about his departure..The Captain had great respect for Matsui as a teammate and as a man……

    ————————————————————

    I’m sure that he’s not going to be happy with losing Matsui and Damon, but, I get the feeling that he’ll miss Matsui more, because of that quiet, class element as well as run producer. Rodriguez and the pitchers will miss him a lot more. That bet that he had with Jeter and Abreu about who’s getting married first was classic. You know that Matsui laughed more than anyone about outslicking them.

  322. m December 19th, 2009 at 4:15 am

    What’s a non-standard injury? If you’re talking baseball injury, the wrist is a standard injury.

    There’s been so much talk about NJ’s injury history, it’s taken on a life of its own.

    What is it about players like him and Pavano? Just bad luck? Bad athlete? Bad karma (haha, that Carl Pavano)?

    Certainly haven’t led a charmed life.

    I fully expect NJ to get the Phil Hughes and AJ Burnett bubble wrap treatment. They’ll move all objects out of his path and pad all the railings and pillars. He’s going to make it through the season with out any major problems.

  323. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2009 at 4:15 am

    CompassRosy
    December 19th, 2009 at 4:05 am
    I am somewhat surprised that they’ve yet to move on Branyon, though. They’ll need that power.

    Funny, I just posted about this on another NYY board…
    It is my understanding that Russell is very open to returning to Seattle. He loved his time here and appreciated the fact that someone finally gave him an opportunity to start. Unfortunately, he suffered a back injury late in the season (missed the entire month of September). In any case, it is my understanding that the M’s made Russell an offer early on in the off-season, but he’s seeking a two-year deal. Unless they pull off a trade for a first baseman (and who could put anything past Jack Z at this point seems like the M’s and Russell could get something worked out – as he apparently told the M’s he’d give them the opportunity to match any other suitors’ offers….

    I must admit, even though I’m a pitching and defense kind of gal, Russell’s moonshots are things of beauty.

    ————————————————————

    Yes, branyon definately got some lift on the flies. Sort of a Adam Dunn Lite. Don’t take this wrong, but Dunn-Lite with a better glove (sort of like the smartest kid in Special-Ed), iI know). He may have led the league in homers this year had be been healthy.

  324. Pat M. December 19th, 2009 at 4:17 am

    GB, it’s time for me to call it a night…By the way how in the hell are you able to get away with being up and about at this time of night ???? Have you just simply worn out the staff ??? Take care old boy and I hope get cut loose tomorrow…..

  325. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2009 at 4:19 am

    m
    December 19th, 2009 at 4:15 am
    What’s a non-standard injury? If you’re talking baseball injury, the wrist is a standard injury.

    There’s been so much talk about NJ’s injury history, it’s taken on a life of its own.

    What is it about players like him and Pavano? Just bad luck? Bad athlete? Bad karma (haha, that Carl Pavano)?

    ————————————————————

    He’s always had skills, but, I guess being a “soft athlete” would best describe him. He either can’t get out of his own way or others. Sort of like Giambi without the power. He couldn’t stay healthy, either, during his last 8 years. Or, like Milton Bradley has been.

  326. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2009 at 4:21 am

    Pat M.
    December 19th, 2009 at 4:17 am
    GB, it’s time for me to call it a night…By the way how in the hell are you able to get away with being up and about at this time of night ???? Have you just simply worn out the staff ??? Take care old boy and I hope get cut loose tomorrow…..

    ————————————————————

    I sleep off and on all day, Pat.

  327. m December 19th, 2009 at 4:22 am

    GB7,

    Just like you can’t teach height, you can’t teach durability…

  328. JeterJobaCanoFan2010 December 19th, 2009 at 4:31 am

    Pat M.
    December 19th, 2009 at 3:23 am
    JeterJobaCanoFan,,,,Cal only had a lifetime .340 obs, so forget his MVP, his All-Star selections and most of all just dismiss the fact that He’s in the HallOf Fame….By the way, Merry Christmas…..
    ———————————————————–
    Cal Ripkin, Jr. It is very impressive that he played for one team his entire career. He was a star player on a mediocre team his last few years. To know Cal is to love him. Tickets were hard to come by when Cal was playing. Cal’s HoF induction was a sea of orange

    One of my favorite memories of an All Star Game is A-Rod literally pushing Cal into the SS position while A-Rod took third. A little irony there, don’t you think.

    Merry Christmas to you, also.

  329. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2009 at 4:36 am

    m
    December 19th, 2009 at 4:22 am
    GB7,

    Just like you can’t teach height, you can’t teach durability…

    ————————————————————

    Mel, that one of my biggest concerns about Johnson…..that he keeps getting nicked up and to bad to play and not bad enough to DL him.

  330. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2009 at 4:37 am

    nicked up and ***too*** bad to play and not bad enough to DL him

  331. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 19th, 2009 at 6:29 am

    lol on the posts regarding Jon Heyman. Unless it has to do with breaking a story, he is irrelevant. And unlikable/arrogant, to boot

  332. bru December 19th, 2009 at 6:34 am

    Pat M.
    December 19th, 2009 at 2:33 am
    David, You must have noticed that I omitted you from Rich, Phil & Jerkface in regards to their astute knowledge of the game…..It’s simply due to the fact that you know Jack about baseball……I may disagree with them on this particular issue, that being said all you do is try to rationalize your irrational comments…….As I stated earlier, start with a Topps Baseball card and read left to right…..It also comes with gum, be sure to brush your teeth afterwards……

    ———————————————————

    lmfao

  333. rick December 19th, 2009 at 6:35 am

    well it seems the Yankees have reached their number for salary. It is funny how everyone in here was duped into thinking the yankees had some mystical plan. Yes they did cut salary. they almost got it down to the nickel. for example a million here and a million there. bruney was even part of the cuts. their meeting in tampa had a bunch of names on a board…damon, matsui etc slice those babies….add granderson 5 million and any other hitter to get to the number. if you think this about putting the best team on the field, you are crazy. this was about getting to the number. the yankee fans were duped into thinking different about this team.

  334. rick December 19th, 2009 at 6:42 am

    By the way i think Cashman did a wonderful job getting the players he did considering he was cutting salary at the same time. Granderson is a good player (not great) and Johnson even though he is slow will be decent for the yankees if he remains healthy.

  335. bru December 19th, 2009 at 6:44 am

    this team needs to win to be the force that it has become

    i hope baby stein does not learn this the hard way

    sign holliday & trade for jj

  336. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 19th, 2009 at 7:12 am

    “he’s a .270 hitter, who has a high bb % and an even higher whiff %…His run production ( runs scored and rbi’s ) is average, as is his total bases….Basically he’s an average ballplayer and for his position ( 1st base ) he’s below average……Listen, I’ve been aware of obs since my plating days in HS, College, Pros…Its a very supportive stat, it’s not the Holy Grail in evaluating a baseball player…..His ba is .273 is obs is .402, yet he whiffs more than he walks…….He is what he is”
    ———————————————————–

    last time i checked, baseball was a team game. In your ‘analysis’ you completely discount Johnson’s value. The value of Nick Johnson cannot be judged in a vaccum. But rather the cumulative effect of what his OBP and pitches per plate appearance do for the rest of the lineup. Do you not see the benefit of an opposing pitcher’s pitch count reaching 100 pitches by the 5th inning? In a lineup already filled with run producers, Johnson is a perfect addition and signing by Cashman.

  337. blake December 19th, 2009 at 7:33 am

    There was a lot of good discussion last night around midnight on the Holliday situation and I agree with most of it. CB and others pointed out the the Yankees are waiting on the market to develop and once it does they will possibly buy if the price seems right to them.

    The current speculation is that Holliday has received an offer for about 5 years and about 80 million dollars. Its just my opinion but I think thats about 10-20 million short of his value. So IMO the price would have to go up considerably before Holliday wouldn’t be “on sale” anymore. I think if the Yankees can get Holliday for anything under 100 million then they should do it because I think thats about what his value is. Cashman may not agree with me though and I guess that will determine whether or not they sign him.

  338. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 19th, 2009 at 7:39 am

    blake: yes. I haven’t done the math, but am thinking the team which nets Holliday will be at 90 million or so. At maybe 6 yrs.

    side note: i see what Gammons was trying to do now, with his little charade (leaking that offer). He really bleeds RedSox red

  339. blake December 19th, 2009 at 7:47 am

    Vinny, 6 years/90 million is a contract that I feel pretty confident that Holliday would outplay. For a team like the Yankees its more about avoiding bad contracts (paying more for a player than they produce) than it is the actual money.

    At the current pricing I think there is a ways to go before there is risk of Holliday’s becoming a bad contract. Some may not agree with me and thats OK also.

  340. sab December 19th, 2009 at 7:49 am

    jerkface – if you’re around heres some reading material on your hero milton bradley….real great guy!!! Jack Z is a genius..

    and the hits keep coming!!!!

    by the wasy no mention on what a cancer Carlos Silva is…weird..

    http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/ne.....;type=lgns

  341. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 19th, 2009 at 7:55 am

    “Vinny, 6 years/90 million is a contract that I feel pretty confident that Holliday would outplay”
    ————————————————

    yes. Based on the info by ‘Lost’, i believe the 6/90 – 6/92 may be the NYY ceiling. By all account, the rest will have everything to do with structure/deferred money. Which you already know

  342. rick December 19th, 2009 at 8:02 am

    The golden days of free agency are over. The owners are ignoring Boras and the agents. Only the real superstars are commanding big money. There are many free agent type b players now without contracts. Most of them will take any kind of contracts by January just to play. I think the owners are not playing free agent baseball anymore except for the real superstars.

  343. 86w183 December 19th, 2009 at 8:04 am

    If you owned the team and you had the choice of 29 year old Granderson and 31 year old Johnson for $ 12 Million or 36 year old Matui and 36 year old Damon for $ 20 Million you would take the younger tandem every time.

    Plus if you look at the away game splits the younger guys (.278 26, 75) were just as productive as the older guys (.285, 22, 81), drew more walks and stole more bases.

    And that’s not even considering the defensive difference between Granderson and Damon.

  344. blake December 19th, 2009 at 8:06 am

    Vinny, I agree but I also believe that Melky is not going to be their long-term solution in LF.

    If that is true then Holliday may be the best option available for quiet some time to provide a quality player in that position unless there is a trade out there that I’m unaware of.

    I wouldn’t get much above 100 million mainly because they can still win without him. He’s not a need like CC or Tex were last year because of what they already have but at this moment in time it doesn’t seem like it will cost that much to get him.

  345. 86w183 December 19th, 2009 at 8:12 am

    At this point I think bench upgrades are more likely than a major acquisition but none of us know what Cash and the Steinbrothers are thinking.

    I’d love to see a trade for Wigginton who would be a cheaper version of DeRosa. Signing Garrett Atkins takes away a lot of his at bats in 2010.

  346. blake December 19th, 2009 at 8:19 am

    I feel pretty confident that the Yankees will either sign Holliday or Sheets. I don’t see any way that its both.

    I think they will let the Holliday situation play out and if the price is to their liking then they will sign him and maybe go cheaper on a starter. If they dont choose to go after Holliday, then Sheets will likely still be available as reports are saying he is in no rush to sign. I think either of those two improve the team significantly.

  347. Roger(live from Amsterdam) December 19th, 2009 at 8:26 am

    Blake

    If it’s Holliday or Sheets.Who would you take?

    Holliday right?

  348. blake December 19th, 2009 at 8:32 am

    Roger, I really like Sheets and I think if he could stay healthy then he could make our rotation just as good as Boston’s. However, because of his injury history and the potential that Holliday could impact the team for 5 or 6 years then I would probably go with Holliday if the price is right.

    I think thats what the Yankees are considering (I could be wrong). I think Holliday at their price is their first choice now, but if that doesn’t workout then Sheets is a good plan B. The goal is to improve the team in whatever way makes the most sense.

  349. 86w183 December 19th, 2009 at 8:37 am

    If the financial commitment is the same of course you get Holliday, but you’re looking at the difference in $ 75 Million or more in guaranteed money.

    If I know each will be at his best in 2010 It’s Sheets without question.

  350. Roger(live from Amsterdam) December 19th, 2009 at 8:40 am

    I would want Holliday as well.And I would try to Duchscherer.He should be a lot cheaper the Sheets

    Then you wuold have:
    jeter ss
    johnson dh
    texiera 1b
    rodriguez 3b
    holliday lf
    granderson cf
    posada c
    cano 2b
    swisher rf

    SR
    sabathia
    burnett
    pettite
    duchscherer
    chmaberlain/hughes

    Sounds pretty good to me

  351. blake December 19th, 2009 at 8:43 am

    “If I know each will be at his best in 2010 It’s Sheets without question.”

    Yes but we don’t know this. Also there are better pitchers available in next years free agent class than Sheets. There isn’t a LF better than Holliday in next year’s class and there are no outfielders in the minors that are even close to the big leagues.

    I would be fine with either decision.

  352. 86w183 December 19th, 2009 at 8:59 am

    I agree, but I can live with Melky, Granderson and Swisher.. especially if they can add some pop to the bench. Pitching insurance is more needed in my view.

    I think Duchscherer is a flash in the pan. I would much rather take a flier on Sheets, Escobar or Wang than thay guy who would be on the same type of innings limit as Hughes, but with a serious injury history that Phil doesn’t have.

    later

  353. Alan December 19th, 2009 at 9:22 am

    Nick Johnson will be a strong contributor as the No. 2 hitter in driving up pitch counts and getting to opponents bullpens early.
    Jeter, being the selective and patient hitter he is, will pave the way. By the time a pitcher gets to the No. 5 hitter, a pitch count of 20 is very possible.

  354. Mark in Tampa December 19th, 2009 at 9:28 am

    “I would much rather take a flier on Sheets, Escobar or Wang than thay guy who would be on the same type of innings limit as Hughes, but with a serious injury history that Phil doesn’t have”

    Then that pretty much leaves the choice as Sheets only.

    Escobar is going to be bullpen only to try to preserve his career. He said that himself, it isn’t scout speculation.

    Wang’s agent says he can pitch in the majors in May. But, that is his agent saying that. So, figure him to be ready to start his rehab comeback in May. We are now looking at June or July at the earliest for him to contribute. And, nobody has any idea if he can even recapture that great sinker.

    That leaves Sheets and Duke as the only real choices. Sheets is the better talent, Duke is more versatile. If they go for Sheets, one of Joba/Hughes won’t be starting no matter what(excepting injuries). If it is Duke, it is a 3 for 2 competition for the last 2 spots and one bullpen.

  355. MTU December 19th, 2009 at 9:30 am

    Blake-

    I do not agree with you that Holliday/Sheets is an either or proposition.

    The yankees can afford both.

    I do not know if they want both but if the price is right they may.

    For me the Yankee budget is a “strawman” right now.

    They can afford them if they choose to.

    I got a little too wound up last night about a couple things
    with respect to Holliday.

    But just like you ,though it it didn’t sound that way, I am fine either way.

    The Yankees are going to field a great team next year.

    IMO just makes it totally unstoppable.

    And I like that idea. A lot.

    One last thought.

    I hope the Yankees dont make the same type of error of judgement that Boras did with Damon.

    Namely,misjudging their own leverage. I hope they are not becoming the opposite of what they used to be by becoming pennywise and pound foolish on Holliday.

    He will be a real difference maker. The yankees shouldn’t miss out on him over a relatively small amount.

    I think CB has said that anything under 120MILL would be a fair deal for the Yanks.

    I understand that the Yanks dont want to overspend on Holliday but I dont want to see them miss out when they can afford a few dollars more, and become a juggernaut offensively.

  356. blake December 19th, 2009 at 9:49 am

    MTU , yes they can probably technically afford whatever they want. However for whatever reason they have been practicing with financial restraint recently. Its not a question of could they sign both holliday and sheets, its a question would they and I think the answer is no from what I’ve seen.

  357. Roger(live from Amsterdam) December 19th, 2009 at 9:54 am

    how about signing Sheets and Byrd?

    Byrd has power,plays great defense and can play all 3 positions in the outfield

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