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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Do the Yankees need to go after a No. 5 hitter?

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 18, 2009 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

At this point, it seems a matter of time before Nick Johnson replaces Hideki Matsui as the Yankees designated hitter. The natural question has become, who replaces Matsui as the No. 5 hitter.

To me, Johnson is perfect in the No. 2 spot. In the past 24 hours, his on-base percentage has become the stuff of legend — he once drew a walk while playing first base — and I don’t buy the idea that he’s too slow. Actually, I completely buy that he’s slow, I just don’t buy that it matters. The Yankees need a guy to simply get on base in front of Mark Teixeira and Alex Rodriguez. The ability to steal a bag is nice, but not remotely essential. Johnny Damon stole only 12 this season.

So, Johnson bats second, and the No. 5 spot goes to…

Curtis Granderson. That’s my pick. The guy hit 30 home runs last year while playing half of his games in Detroit. He had 71 RBI while getting most of his starts as a lead-off hitter counting on Adam Everett, Gerald Laird and Ramon Santiago to get on base ahead of him. His career slugging percentage is .484.

Matsui’s is .482.

An added bonus of Granderson batting fifth is that he can steal a base. That might matter when he’s hitting ahead of Jorge Posada, who has twice led the American League in double plays grounded into, and Robinson Cano, who led the Yankees in GIDP this year.

 
 

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428 Responses to “Do the Yankees need to go after a No. 5 hitter?”

  1. RMEL December 18th, 2009 at 12:51 pm

    Totally agree

  2. vb03 December 18th, 2009 at 12:52 pm

    This is the whole point. Johnson replaces Damon and hits 2nd, Granderson replaces Matsui and hits 5th. The idea that Johnson is supposed to directly replace Matsui is a fallacy.

  3. ryan December 18th, 2009 at 12:53 pm

    well put. I agree. Johnson should do well ahead of texiera too.

  4. blake December 18th, 2009 at 12:53 pm

    Chad, that’s fine against righties but they had better have another option if a lefty is on the hill or else Arod won’t see a strike all season off a left hander.

  5. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 18th, 2009 at 12:54 pm

    Great post. Where can I sign up for Chad to take over full time?

  6. Andrew @ NoYoureATowel December 18th, 2009 at 12:55 pm

    I think that it’s not that big of an issue who bats 5th. Granderson, Swisher and Posada will all be in RBI spots and you just move the better/hotter players up. Granderson won’t hit 5th against lefties, anyways, so labeling him as a “#5 hitter” isn’t really helpful.

    You have your #1-4 and you have 3 guys who could go 5-6-7. That’s all that you need to worry about.

    Mixing and matching is not such a big deal with all the switch hitters the Yankees have.

  7. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 18th, 2009 at 12:55 pm

    nope. At the very least, NYY has enuf offense to get by until the all-star break.

    at the very least

  8. Rich in NJ December 18th, 2009 at 12:55 pm

    I agree with blake.

  9. eric December 18th, 2009 at 12:56 pm

    Johnson hits LHP’s very very very well (.316 ba, 440 obp, .884 ops). He’ll do just fine.

  10. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 18th, 2009 at 12:57 pm

    People also need to remember who is hitting in front of Arod. There are 3 guys in front of him with OBP over .380. You are not walking Arod with guys on base unless there is a base open. And if that is the case with a base open it does not matter who is behind AROD because they are still going to walk him in a big spot with a base open.

  11. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 18th, 2009 at 12:57 pm

    versus lefties, i like:

    Jeter
    Nick Johnson
    Teixeria
    Arod
    Pasada
    Cano
    Swisher
    Melky/Hoffmann/Gardner
    Granderson

  12. champ809 December 18th, 2009 at 12:57 pm

    I attempted to point this out in a post last night to all the “NJ is not as good as Matsui” crowd!

    as I pointed out to view the moves properly you have think that NJ is to replace Damon’s bat and Matsui’s replacement is Grandy. If viewed that way then it’s not hard to make the case that the Yanks are upgraded by these moves

  13. cc2 December 18th, 2009 at 12:57 pm

    i know a lot of people are in “sky is falling” mode around here but i love the johnson signing. i think there is too much sentimental value being placed on matsui and damon. the yankees get younger, more athletic and cheaper with johnson 2nd and granderson 5th. cashman has done well . . . and hes not done yet. holliday profiles a lot better for a yankees team with johnson than one with matsui.

  14. DaSaint007 December 18th, 2009 at 12:58 pm

    Nice post. Seems logical to me: Johnson @ #2, Granderson @ #5. Done.

    Pitching please:
    1 Starter
    1 LH Reliever

  15. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 18th, 2009 at 12:59 pm

    “Also, Bradley to Seattle means, Bay will probably be a Met. And the Mariners should have insane OF defense”
    ———————————————–

    and the Mets? no so insane

  16. Chip December 18th, 2009 at 12:59 pm

    I’m fine with Granderson batting in the 5 spot.

    After they sign Johnson focus on getting another starter. If Holliday or DeRosa fall in their laps, so be it.

  17. Ryan December 18th, 2009 at 1:00 pm

    I want Mark DeRosa!!!

  18. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Back Johnny!!!! December 18th, 2009 at 1:00 pm

    No! No! No! No! No!!!

    I want Johnny Damon. I do NOT approve.

  19. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 18th, 2009 at 1:00 pm

    My point:

    Guy on 2nd or guys on 2nd and 3rd in a big spot. Unless Albert Pujols is hitting behind AROD they are walking him.

    Guy on first, they are not walking him and with three incredible OBP in front of him a guy is going to be on first a whole lot.

    Bases empty, if they want to pitch around AROD Grandy, Posada, and Cano all have the ability to punish a pitcher. Look up Grandy’s road statistics. He is a very dangerous hitter and Comerica has killed him in recent years

  20. Patrick December 18th, 2009 at 1:00 pm

    “If you use your head and actually listen to Cashman, you will put a pretty low probability on Santa Holliday coming to town.”

    Wave, my only point was that what Cashman says cannot be trusted.

    Last year Cashman said there was no room in the payroll for both Sabathia and Teixeira. In fact he said that they hadn’t even looked at the possibility of signing Tex. Obviously that was untrue.

    Then this year he said over and over that they weren’t looking at signing a full-time DH. Well it looks as if Nick Johnson is about to be a Yankee again.

    Maybe you’re right and the payroll will prohibit Matt Holliday signing with the Yanks. But then again, we really don’t know what the Yankees’ payroll is. They send out rumors every year that it will be a certain number and they always exceed it. For example, there were rumors that they were looking at a $185 million payroll this year. With Nick Johnson signing it will be more like $193 million plus there’s talk about signing another pitcher.

    I put no credence in what Cashman says to the media, that’s why I still think they could sign Holliday.

  21. Rich in NJ December 18th, 2009 at 1:01 pm

    I don’t want Mark DeRosa, and fortunately, it seems he is priced too high:

    http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....t-MLB-buzz

  22. Jay T December 18th, 2009 at 1:01 pm

    Do we need another RH bat? I know the Rule V pick will help out but is that enough?

  23. Bob December 18th, 2009 at 1:01 pm

    Top flight analysis as usual, Chad.

    DaSaint, the Yanks are not going to be looking for a left handed reliever with Dunn and De la Rosa on the 40-man roster. I have seen both of them pitch; trust me, you will be impressed.

  24. Chip December 18th, 2009 at 1:02 pm

    Sign Johnson

    Deal Gardner to San Diego for Heath Bell – the trade actually serves two purposes:

    1. Gives the Yankees Heath Bell
    2. Gardner on the roster means that Ellsbury would not be a chip that the Padres would want in a deal for Gonzalez

    Sign Ben Sheets

  25. hwang December 18th, 2009 at 1:02 pm

    Matt Holliday/Jason Bay can solve all the problems.

  26. Rich in NJ December 18th, 2009 at 1:02 pm

    “my only point was that what Cashman says cannot be trusted.”

    I think it can be trusted. It just has to be decoded. Cash engages in creative ambiguity.

  27. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 1:02 pm

    If you want the Perfect machine and most DEADLY lineup.

    Holliday.

    Otherwise Granderson against Righties and Posada against lefties sounds good.

  28. Rich in NJ December 18th, 2009 at 1:02 pm

    Bay’s defense may be worse than Damon’s.

  29. Phil December 18th, 2009 at 1:02 pm

    Mark DeRosa sucks.

    Cano should bat 5th if we are unable to perfect the line-up by adding a Holliday type bat.

  30. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 18th, 2009 at 1:03 pm

    The logic between Chad’s posts and Sam’s posts are night and day

  31. Bronx Jeers December 18th, 2009 at 1:04 pm

    Sure, I’ll buy that.

    Maybe move him down a bit against lefties. Push Posada up.

  32. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 18th, 2009 at 1:05 pm

    My whole take on the Holliday thing is that the Yankees have plenty of offense for the foreseeable future with AROD, Tex, Jetes, Cano, Swish, and Grandy.

    Instead of improving on something that is already the best in baseball year in and year out, I would rather them save the money for pitching and build a deadly staff to complement a core offense that is the best in baseball.

  33. Nick D. December 18th, 2009 at 1:06 pm

    nope. At the very least, NYY has enuf offense to get by until the all-star break.
    at the very least

    —–

    I wasn’t aware that offense was something that could be used up.

    I think we just dumped two old guys that could have been big injury risks so we should last a while longer.

  34. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 18th, 2009 at 1:06 pm

    “The logic between Chad’s posts and Sam’s posts are night and day”
    —————————————————–

    in this case, yes. Why Sam couldn’t see Nick Johsnon as an ideal signing, i have no idea

  35. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 1:07 pm

    Let’s go-

    Maybe, just maybe it’s not either or ?

  36. Patrick December 18th, 2009 at 1:07 pm

    “I think it can be trusted. It just has to be decoded. Cash engages in creative ambiguity.”

    Does “We are not looking at signing a full-time DH” decode into “We are signing Nick Johnson to be the full-time DH.” ?

    Does “We haven’t discussed a situation where we would be able to sign both Sabathia and Teixeira.” decode into “We are signing Sabathia and Teixeira.” ?

    I love Cashman and this is just a part of his job. He can’t put his plans on display so we really can’t believe anything he says.

  37. DaSaint007 December 18th, 2009 at 1:08 pm

    Lots of remaining Free Agents won’t get work this season as the economy still stinks and teams are in cost-cutting mode wherever possible, though some contracts still make you scratch your head.

    Was just looking at the 2009 Free Agent list, and so many noted names were left unemployed. It’s about to happen again.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....ree-a.html

  38. Bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes December 18th, 2009 at 1:08 pm

    Agreed. Bay could not handle NYS LF.

    I’m sure the Yankees are aware of that.

  39. Baseball Mogul December 18th, 2009 at 1:09 pm

    Posada 5, Granderson 6, Swisher 7, Cano 8, Cabrera 9.

    No to Mark DeRosa. Go with Melky/Gardner in LF until Crawford is signed next winter ;)

  40. Bronx Jeers December 18th, 2009 at 1:09 pm

    “Cano should bat 5th if we are unable to perfect the line-up by adding a Holliday type bat.”

    Cano slugged .332 with RISP last season.

    If Cano could ever figure out that dimension of his game?

    Scary MVP type of awesome.

  41. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 18th, 2009 at 1:10 pm

    MTU,

    I agree that it is maybe not either or. But, I just do not see them significant increasing the payroll in the next few years. It seems they want to stay pretty steady around 200 million. Of course that could change, but I am leaning towards it not changing. If my thinking is correct I would rather have a guy like Cliff Lee than Holliday

  42. Nick D. December 18th, 2009 at 1:10 pm

    “I think it can be trusted. It just has to be decoded. Cash engages in creative ambiguity.”
    Does “We are not looking at signing a full-time DH” decode into “We are signing Nick Johnson to be the full-time DH.” ?
    Does “We haven’t discussed a situation where we would be able to sign both Sabathia and Teixeira.” decode into “We are signing Sabathia and Teixeira.” ?
    I love Cashman and this is just a part of his job. He can’t put his plans on display so we really can’t believe anything he says.

    —–

    I am starting to think that Cashman just sits in his office and 15 minutes out of every hour devoted to baseball is devoted to what the most ridiculous things he can say to the media are.

    Then another 10 minutes of that hour are spent checking the comments section of this website and uproariously laughing. Then getting back to talking baseball in a swimming pool full of money.

  43. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 18th, 2009 at 1:11 pm

    “Instead of improving on something that is already the best in baseball year in and year out, I would rather them save the money for pitching and build a deadly staff to complement a core offense that is the best in baseball”
    ——————————————————-

    not to mention, the yankees have a farm now. What happpens if they have to move a player to the OF (ie Austin Romine). Where do you put him? The yankees have a + farm system, better to utilize what you have and turn an excess amount of pitching or catching into an oufielder via the right trade, rather then lose prospects via Rule 5 draft

  44. upstate kate December 18th, 2009 at 1:11 pm

    Erica
    It is time for you to have a talk w/ your PBF before it is too late :(

  45. blake December 18th, 2009 at 1:11 pm

    If the Yankees don’t sign Holliday it certainly won’t be because Cashman doesn’t want to go against what he’s told the media.. He says the same old mumbo jumbo every year and every time he talks. Give no thought to anything he says because it means nothing.

  46. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 18th, 2009 at 1:11 pm

    edit: the right trade for an outfielder (in the future)

  47. Phil December 18th, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    Cano will do better with RISP this year. That was just weird last year.

  48. Abdababdaserser December 18th, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    I guess that the mystery team that is supposed to be in on Holliday is not the Mariners then. Bradley going to the Mariners makes some sense as they need a bat, they also get rid of Silva who wasn’t worth the contract he signed there.

    The question remains, who is the mystery team in on Holliday? (Boras did have Zito sign with the mystery team, so calling his bluff on them carries some risk).

  49. Noreaster December 18th, 2009 at 1:13 pm

    Nice things about Nick Johnson, he hits lefties better than righties so he actually balances the limeup a little, he is an OBP machine and he is from our farm system (I don’t know why, but I like that!).

  50. sunny615 December 18th, 2009 at 1:13 pm

    Get Holliday this year or wait for Carl Crawford next year?

  51. Dylan December 18th, 2009 at 1:13 pm

    Projected lineup:
    Jeter R
    Johnson L
    Teixeira S
    Rodriguez R
    Granderson L
    Posada S
    Cano L
    Swisher S
    Melky S

    They wouldn’t have 2 right handed hitters or left handed hitters in a row! That lineup is just as good as last year, plus its much younger. We replaced a 35 and a 36 year old with a 28 and a 31 year old. I would also be surprised if Johnson and Granderson don’t match Damon and Matsui’s 50 HR total.

    Projected starting rotation:
    Sabathia
    Burnett
    Pettite
    Sheets
    Hughes

    The Yankees need to sign another SP. I think Sheets would be a great fit for them. That way they could leave Joba in the bullpen, and groom him to be an eventual replacement for Mo. I think Hughes will become a good starting pitcher.

  52. stupid mistake December 18th, 2009 at 1:13 pm

    Cannot believe the Yankees allowed a proven clutch hitter like Matsui go and are taking Johnson as a replacement. The knock on Matsui was that he could not play the field, well either can Johnson as the Yankees have an everyday firstbaseman

  53. DaSaint007 December 18th, 2009 at 1:13 pm

    The Yankees are not going to put a catching prospect in the OF this late in his development. It’s use him or lose him. Frankly, I think that Romine has a better long-term chance of remaining a catcher than Montero, though Montero is clearly the better hitter.

  54. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 1:14 pm

    Let’s go-

    that fine with me. You are certainly entitled to your opinion just like evryone else here.

    I was just pointing out that IMO getting more pitching and adding Holliday are not mutually exclusive.

    Just like you it is on an opinion and not a FACT.

    I like to talk in probabilities sometime more than certainties.

    Certainty is when it has happened, or you are Cashman.

  55. Tommy December 18th, 2009 at 1:14 pm

    Sheets is the only pitcher worth looking into. Duchester is a reliever. And Shneets is not going to be a bargain.

  56. L to the 2nd December 18th, 2009 at 1:14 pm

    Erica, one of your famous letters to your PBF may be in order, otherwise it’s gonna be a “Dear John(ny)” letter, wishing him the best in SF.

  57. Noreaster December 18th, 2009 at 1:15 pm

    I could see the Yankees laying in the weeds again on a hitter, but I’d love to keep LF open for Crawford next year. My hope for this year is Sheets, I’d love to see Cashman take a swing at him!

  58. NL success? December 18th, 2009 at 1:15 pm

    Johnson has been in the NL for quite sometime and was quite average playing under no pressure at all. Doubt he`ll do much in the AL east

  59. blake December 18th, 2009 at 1:16 pm

    Holliday is better than Crawford or werth and he is for sure available where the others may not be.

  60. davidson December 18th, 2009 at 1:17 pm

    Mariners just traded Carlos Silva for Milton Bradley RF (Cubs)

    This is his 8th team,Pete says he’s despised in the club house.

  61. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 18th, 2009 at 1:17 pm

    “The question remains, who is the mystery team in on Holliday?”
    ———————————–

    considering Bay isn’t signed. Maybe the Mets

  62. Rich in NJ December 18th, 2009 at 1:17 pm

    My reply to Patrick got eated twice.

  63. Patrick December 18th, 2009 at 1:17 pm

    I’m not sure the Yanks have the payroll to get Holliday and if they don’t I do think Chip and others are right – Mark DeRosa would be a good piece on this team. He isn’t a great player but he hits for some power and can play 3B, 2B, LF which would be good on this team. I’d have him play 3B when A-rod is DHing rather than Pena.

    Then the Yanks could platoon DeRosa and Cabrera in LF which would also allow them to put Cabrera in CF and Granderson on the bench when they face especially hard lefties.

    Granted, DeRosa isn’t the best fielder and he doesn’t have a great OBP but he’d be a useful player on the team.

  64. Noreaster December 18th, 2009 at 1:18 pm

    Holliday didn’t hit well for the A’s last year and had dubious splits outside of Coors Field. Given the number of years, I’d say pass…

  65. Erin December 18th, 2009 at 1:18 pm

    Erica – always OPPC – Bring Back Johnny!!!!
    December 18th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
    No! No! No! No! No!!!

    I want Johnny Damon. I do NOT approve.

    ************************
    Maybe all of this “no more Damon” talk is just a red herring, so the Yankees can give you the ultimate birthday present tomorrow. ;)

  66. cc2 December 18th, 2009 at 1:19 pm

    brett gardner for heath bell? why on earth would the padres ever make that trade? seems like youre shooting a little high on gardneros.

  67. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 1:19 pm

    Blake-
    One bird in the hand is……

  68. KyleLitke December 18th, 2009 at 1:19 pm

    To me, the lineup should be:

    1. Jeter
    2. Johnson
    3. Teixeira
    4. A-Rod
    5. Granderson
    6. Posada
    7. Cano
    8. Swisher
    9. Melky

    And you can switch Cano and Swisher if you want. Everything else sets it up perfectly. Johnson’s ridiculous OBP in front of Teixeira and A-Rod, Granderson’s power behind those two.

  69. Crawdaddy December 18th, 2009 at 1:19 pm

    I’m waiting for the final roster before I engage in deep discussion about the batting order. For some strange reason, I suspect Cashman still has something up his sleeve.

  70. Noreaster December 18th, 2009 at 1:19 pm

    ‘Stupid Mistake’ – I hate to see Matsui go, but the guy was operating on one wheel. Age is age and it catches up to everyone (except Mo).

  71. Chip December 18th, 2009 at 1:19 pm

    Patrick -

    I think when Cashman said that he wasn’t looking for a full time DH he meant it. But then circumstances changed and Damon made it impossible to re-sign him. Cashman surveyed the landscape and decided that, offensively, the best fit for the club to replace Damon was Nick Johnson and so he changed his opinion on having a full time DH.

    I think that if Brian could find a good deal for Swisher he would take it in a second and make a run at Holliday, but I’m just not sure what the market is for Nick right now. As I said, the only guy who I could hypothetically see making any sort of sense would be someone else’s bad contract like D-Lowe and I can fully appreciate why Cashman doesn’t want that contract.

    I believe the Yankees will focus on a starter – most likely Ben Sheets and bring him in sometime around early January.

    Maybe the Yankees still turn around and make a trade with either Melky or Gardner for a back end starter or a relief pitcher, who knows. But more and more I think that Cashman and Girardi will be content to go into Spring Training with a 25 man of:

    Jeter
    Johnson
    Tex
    Alex
    Granderson
    Jorge
    Cano
    Swisher
    Melky

    Bench: Hoffmann, Cervelli, Pena, Miranda

    CC, AJ, Andy, Sheets, Hughes

    Pen: Rivera, Joba, Robertson, Marte, Dunn, Gaudin, Aceves

  72. Patrick December 18th, 2009 at 1:20 pm

    “My reply to Patrick got eated twice.”

    I hope you weren’t insulting and cussing me out too badly :)

  73. Abdababdaserser December 18th, 2009 at 1:21 pm

    Some FA of the next season are pretty much sure things. CC was going on the FA market, everyone knew it.

    Crawford isn’t one of those you can guarantee to not sign an extension. When he says he would like to remain with the Rays for his career you believe him more than if Damon says it.

    There are pluses and minuses with Crawford, just as there are with Holliday. I think they somewhat even out, and Holliday is on the market, while Crawford may not even make it.

    Lee is going to be a FA. He also was sounding upset over being traded from the Phillies. He is going to protect his own destiny next season.

  74. Patrick December 18th, 2009 at 1:23 pm

    I don’t think Cashman was ever considering a rotating DH, mainly because it’s a horrible idea and Cashman isn’t an idiot.

  75. G. Love December 18th, 2009 at 1:23 pm

    I don’t think any of us can say we have a true read on what the Yankees are up to.

    It’s possible they even re-sign Damon to play LF at this point as it is they sign Holliday or do nothing.

    I believe the Yankee “budget” is a weapon Cash and Hal are using against agents in negotiations.

    Unless the shame of having a payroll over 200 million is too much for them to take, I don’t see any reason why they needed to cut the payroll all of a sudden.

    I think we’re in Holliday and still slightly in on Damon.

    Can we live without both of them? Sure.

    But, when you spend the kind of coin the Yankees do and your division rival just stacked their rotation you want to make moves that guarantee a post season birth.

    The post season money the Yankees made this year was enormous. They got an extra 8k out of me and my family just for our post season tickets. Not to mention the parking fees and the concessions earned by each post season game.

    If Cashman and the front office do the math and think they have less of a chance to win the division with Johnson and Granderson replacing Damon and Matsui then I expect another move for a LF.

    What I’m not buying is this; If the Yankees were truly out on Holliday we wouldn’t even be getting the media leaks like we have on the NY Post today that allude to the fact that the Yankees are out on Holliday but when you read between the lines you see they have not closed that door totally shut.

    If the Yankees were out on him, I think you’d hear crickets.

    If the Yankees are looking ahead to next year’s free agent class thinking Mauer and Crawford are better to pursue than Holliday, so be it.

    I don’t think they are doing that.

    If they want to chase Beckett or Cliff Lee next year they have money coming off the payroll from Andy (if he retires) and Igawa to chase a front line starter. That’s about 16.5 million right there due to come off the books. Add in Nick Johnson’s 5 million and that’s 21.5 million coming off the books.

    I don’t think their intention to chase a pitcher next year affects what they do with the offense.

    I think they are waiting out the Holliday market and then they’ll ask Boras if Matt would consider a deal with a low base for the first year to protect the “budget”.

    I don’t think the Yankees care what they spend. I think they just want the PR of them having a payroll under $200 million for the NESPN morons.

  76. Noreaster December 18th, 2009 at 1:24 pm

    Chip, Signing Johnson finishes any need the Yankees have for Miranda.

  77. Erin December 18th, 2009 at 1:24 pm

    Chip
    December 18th, 2009 at 1:19 pm

    I think when Cashman said that he wasn’t looking for a full time DH he meant it. But then circumstances changed and Damon made it impossible to re-sign him. Cashman surveyed the landscape and decided that, offensively, the best fit for the club to replace Damon was Nick Johnson and so he changed his opinion on having a full time DH.

    **********************
    Chip- I agree. I have no problem with them bringing Johnson in, but I can’t help but wonder what would be if Matsui hadn’t jumped at the Angels offer. :(

  78. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 18th, 2009 at 1:24 pm

    Another thing is that while they may be able to fit Holliday in the payroll this year, it means a commitment to adding payroll next year. Cano, Granderson, and Swisher are not getting any cheaper in the next few years.

  79. switch December 18th, 2009 at 1:24 pm

    Looks like its Granderson/Johnson replacing Matsui/Damon
    My thoughts are:
    Pros- Granderson/Johnson – younger, better defense
    Cons- loss of clutch hitting

    Clutch hitting is more important- a 1 year deal with Matsui made more sense than a 1 year deal with Johnson. Granderson for Damon is probably ok, and a slight upgrade now, but a bigger upgrade down the road

  80. PittsburghYankeeFan December 18th, 2009 at 1:25 pm

    So no Damon to Seattle. Interesting.

  81. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 18th, 2009 at 1:26 pm

    And one final point financial wise. The CBA is coming up in a couple years. The more they push the payroll, the more it may come back to bite them, because adding significant payroll is not going to do them any favors when revenue sharing, lux tax and such come up.

  82. Abdababdaserser December 18th, 2009 at 1:26 pm

    Noreaster December 18th, 2009 at 1:18 pm

    Holliday didn’t hit well for the A’s last year and had dubious splits outside of Coors Field.
    _________

    Disinformation is still disinformation.

    While there were splits with Coors Field, the offense Holliday had with the A’s was bad in April, then improved… just like Teixeira.

    If a batter can hit in the NL he can hit in the AL.

  83. uh? no December 18th, 2009 at 1:29 pm

    The NL is not a good barometer for the AL East no way no how. Guys leave the AL washed up and finished and become average to solid players in the NL.
    Trust no stats from the NL to AL

  84. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 18th, 2009 at 1:29 pm

    You also do not judge a player based on 3-4 months. If that was a way to judge a player Aaron Small would be the perennial CY Young

  85. PittsburghYankeeFan December 18th, 2009 at 1:29 pm

    Thank you G Love.

    Payroll ceiling is only a weapon to these guys on the Yankees, to keep the agents honest.

    The Yankees are raking it in with the Stadium and YES, and I think another $20-30 million just doesn’t matter to them. It’s all about PR, and maybe to a lesser extent AAV and lux tax.

    Who knows what will happen after 2011 when the CBA blows up, anyway?

  86. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 1:30 pm

    G. Love-

    Graet post.

    I agree on everything but 1 point.

    I say Damon is out because that would indicate to me that he would either have to be a full time outfielder, or a part time outfielder part time DH.

    I think the Yankees see him as more and more a pure DH.

    My point.

    If Damon were to still come back that would force NJ to the
    bench a lot and I do not think they added NJ to be be another bench player.

    He has high OBP skills when he cant use on the bench,
    they paid him too much for more of a bench role.

    That is just my opinion.

  87. PittsburghYankeeFan December 18th, 2009 at 1:30 pm

    Let’s Go

    I said the same thing as you while you were posting it. we think alike.

  88. Noreaster December 18th, 2009 at 1:32 pm

    Abdababdaserser, I hear you…but given the number of years he is looking for, his splits outside of Coors Field all those years are something to look at…

  89. Chip December 18th, 2009 at 1:32 pm

    Three things:

    1. With Bradley going to Seattle and Cameron out of the picture Damon could wind up playing CF for the Cubs.

    2. Patrick I never really thought of it as a rotating DH, more like a rotating number nine spot in the order. If, for example, the Yankees had kept Damon then he would be the primary DH with Melky in LF batting 9. On the days someone (Posada for example) DH’ed, Damon would have played LF and Cervelli would have batted 9 shifting Melky to the bench. A lot less disruption to the lineup in general and the only person losing playing time is the 9th place hitter.

    3. I think there’s still a role for Miranda on this club even with Johnson. A) Johnson could still get hurt at any time. B) Miranda has some ability to play a little OF (though I have no idea if he’s any good out there). C) it’ll really come down to Miranda vs. Gardner for the last spot on the bench.

  90. Abdababdaserser December 18th, 2009 at 1:32 pm

    uh? no December 18th, 2009 at 1:29 pm

    The NL is not a good barometer for the AL East no way no how. Guys leave the AL washed up and finished and become average to solid players in the NL.
    Trust no stats from the NL to AL

    _______

    So you are saying that Pujols would stink if he came to the AL? Right. Gotcha.

    Maybe the name you change to next should be clueless.

  91. mick December 18th, 2009 at 1:32 pm

    Some think it is Damons choice here and it is not. I believe the Yanks 1st choice is Holliday.

    This is the quiet before the storm. How many times have we seen them swoop in and create the headline.

    This is all about Holliday and the “budget/Boras.” He is a natural for NY and has “star” and charisma written all over him.

    Give him my original #6 and let him rip. No pressure, look at the team around him. Your father would be proud.

  92. Betsy -high on pie December 18th, 2009 at 1:32 pm

    http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....t-MLB-buzz

    Yanks will focus on pitching if they land Johnson — 11:40 a.m.

    The Yankees will shift their focus to pitching –- both starters and relievers -– if they complete their deal for free-agent first baseman/DH Nick Johnson.

    Yet, the team will “not be in a hurry” to make any move, according to one source familiar with the club’s plans.

    The reason: Yankees officials believe that bargains will emerge in January and February due to the large number of free agents that still will be available.

    Free-agent infielder Mark DeRosa remains of interest to the Yankees, and the team could add one more bat in addition to Johnson.

    But the Yankees are unlikely to sign DeRosa if they complete their deal for Johnson — “not at these prices,” the source said.

    DeRosa, who turns 35 on Feb. 26, is seeking a three-year contract for between $18 million and $21 million. The Giants and Cardinals remain interested, and the Braves also could jump on him if they trade right-hander Derek Lowe without getting a hitter in return.

    The Giants, however, are another team taking a deliberate approach in the market, waiting for prices to drop. General manager Brian Sabean has told rival executives that he acted too quickly last off-season when he signed relievers Jeremy Affeldt and Bob Howry and shortstop Edgar Renteria early in free agency. -Ken Rosenthal

  93. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 18th, 2009 at 1:33 pm

    Pittsburgh,

    Yeah… I really do not think you can completely disregard those negotiations in a couple years.

  94. blake December 18th, 2009 at 1:34 pm

    I agree with Mtu. I think damon is out unless his price falls off a cliff like abreus did last year, and even then I don’t think they like the idea of him roaming the spacious Yankee Stadium Lf again.

  95. G. Love December 18th, 2009 at 1:34 pm

    MTU,

    If Damon comes back at this point it will be with his hat in his hand.

    If no other decent 2 year offers emerge for him, it’s not out of the realm of possibility that the Yankees bring him back for 1 year with an option/buyout that would save some face for him.

    If he did come back he would play LF full time and Melky/Gardner/Hoffman would be his defensive fill in.

    I don’t see that happening, but you never know. Damon’s been very complimentary of the Yankees organization and if Hal’s got a little bit of George in him, he could tell Cash to bring him back and take care of him.

    That said, I think the “budget” is a ruse.

    Perhaps they are doing this now to help them in renegotiation with Jeter and Mo after the season, although I can’t imagine Jeter or Mo falling for that nonsense.

    You walk into the Yankee clubhouse and see how it’s decked out and you know the Yankees have money coming out of their ears.

  96. Betsy -high on pie December 18th, 2009 at 1:34 pm

    I don’t know if I buy what I just posted. First off, Holliday is going to go to Baltimore to be with a few friends? St. Louis is a much better place for him if he doesn’t land here.

    As to waiting on pitchers, what’s the point (unless Sheets insists on waiting it out)? The only pitchers available that should be of any interest to the Yanks are Sheets and Deutscherer; I’ve no interest in Marquis, Piniero and any of their ilk.

  97. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 18th, 2009 at 1:35 pm

    You can say this guy is coming off the payroll or that guy, but the increases in salary to guys like Grandy, Cano, Swish eat much of that money up.

  98. r+ December 18th, 2009 at 1:35 pm

    Yeah, there might be bargains, but mostly NL-rejects like Pinerio or Doug Davis or a malcontent like Bedard will be on the block.

    Ducthester has never thrown more than 141 innings in his career and after he did that, he missed an entire year with injury.

    Sheets or bust.

  99. Noreaster December 18th, 2009 at 1:36 pm

    Abdababdaserser, maybe you should change your name to cranky…questioning how a player will do outside of an environment they have NEVER been successful in is only logical…

    Let’s leave name calling to Sux fans.

  100. Betsy -high on pie December 18th, 2009 at 1:36 pm

    Vinny, I believe in chemistry, but if the team falls apart because Swisher isn’t here, then it’s a weak team with weak personalities.

  101. CR9 December 18th, 2009 at 1:37 pm

    “The Yankees are not trading Swisher, so why waste time even talking about it?”

    That is a bit narrow minded and short sighted. While I am on the Swish bandwagon, if Cashman sees an opportunity to better our team, then he will do it. And aside from my like of the guy, Swish can be replaced, as opposed to the Jeters and ARods of the world.

  102. Wave Your Hat December 18th, 2009 at 1:37 pm

    Forget what the Yanks say their budget “ceiling” is. Forget $200MM or whatever, because we don’t know how the Yanks account for their payroll anyway.

    Instead, look at what the Yanks actually spent in 2009. Do it on a cash basis, or accrual the way Cot’s does it, and decide if you want to count just the 25 man roster cost or the 40 man roster cost.

    Then decide if you think they are likely to increase or decrease their budget, or leave it substantially the same.

    Unless they shed significant salary, getting Holliday means the Yanks would increase their 2009 budget substantially, however you decide to calculate it.

    Do the Yanks need to sign Holliday in order to win? Unlike Teixeira and CC last year, to me the answer is clearly “No”.

    So, are the Yanks likely to increase their payroll next year in order to sign someone they don’t need in order to win? To me, the answer is clearly “No”.

    I could see them signing another pitcher, and an OF who can hit right-handed but doesn’t come attached to a stratospheric salary. They could do that and remain in the vicinity of last year’s budget.

    I suspect that’s what they’ll do.

  103. PittsburghYankeeFan December 18th, 2009 at 1:37 pm

    Also to above:

    Besides no NJ ($5 million), Andy ($11.5 million) and Igawa ($4 million), you can be sure that the AAV of Jeter’s next contract is going to be less than $18.9 million (maybe $15 million AAV) when all is said and done). Same thing with Mo (maybe $11-12 million AAV, assuming he does not retire).

    So: Mo stays. About $27 million to play with. Mo retires: $41 million to play with, but then the Yankees have a lot bigger problems at that point than money.

  104. 407 feet right of center December 18th, 2009 at 1:37 pm

    the yankees are looking at less revenue next year as matsui brought in dollars and season tix sales are down. a model that relies on making it to world series in order to make money is not one that can be basis of planning expenditures

  105. Jakke December 18th, 2009 at 1:38 pm

    That is pretty ballsy of Sheets to want to set up a workout session before fielding offers. He must be confident he has his ace stuff back. If so, he is going to have dozens of suitors.

  106. beck December 18th, 2009 at 1:38 pm

    Mystery team for Holliday is …..Yankees watch!!

  107. Betsy -high on pie December 18th, 2009 at 1:39 pm

    Phil, a big no thank you to Cano batting 5th. He’s a bottom of the order hitter (no higher than 6th) until he can get his act together hitting higher.

  108. Wilson December 18th, 2009 at 1:40 pm

    Yeah, there may be bargains in January, but who the heck wants John Garland coming to the AL East?

    Remember, we’re looking for pitchers who could potentially outperform the kids. Most of the “bargain” gusy won’t and i would be a waste of money.

    Sheets is basically the only option.

  109. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 18th, 2009 at 1:40 pm

    Pitt,

    You honestly think Jetes and Mo are going to take pay-cuts?

    If the Bobby Abreu’s and Johnny Damon’s of the world are not taking paycuts to remain with the Yankees Jeter and Mo are not. I can not see either of those guys AAV reducing

  110. Phil December 18th, 2009 at 1:41 pm

    Nick Johnson is OFFICIAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Welcome back OBP Jesus!

  111. G. Love December 18th, 2009 at 1:41 pm

    I can guarantee you one thing; Jeter and Mo will no resign for a penny less than what they are currently making.

    That will never happen. In fact, if they both have strong seasons, they will ask for raises and get them.

  112. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 1:41 pm

    Blake-
    They set Johnny’s value. They are no where near an accord at this point IMO, or the deal might have been struck already.

    Damon is still in play but not for the Yankees. They signalled that they had pretty much moved on from Damon if they sign NJ. Anyway, as you know I think they now prefer Holliday. They can’t get both.

    If NJ fails his physical that’s another story but i dont think he will.

    you might be right about Damon’s ultimate fate monetarily.

    I sure hope not. i like the guy and would like to see him get
    a fair deal, or what he thinks is a fair deal. why would cave at this point anyway. He and his agent think there is still noney for him out there.

    The Yankees are not gonna upset the applecart at this point just because Johnny has suddenly “found religion” on his value.

    You snooze you loose sometimes.

  113. Mark in Tampa December 18th, 2009 at 1:42 pm

    This Damon situation is not the first time a Boras client has mis-judged the market. I say client because I don’t think Boras judges the market. I think his thinking is that he creates whatever market he wants for his players. It is whether his client buys into it.

    Damon seems to be buying into that this year, just like Arod in 2007. I don’t know for sure, but the way that went down, I think Arod didn’t get a single offer, and very little interest, even. He was extremely lucky that the Yankees bailed him out(so were the Yankees, eventually). If not, he may have had the single largest paycut in history.

    I am not so sure Damon will be so lucky, but somebody will probably give him 2/16M.

  114. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 1:43 pm

    A little late with my post above, obviously. Bye johnny.

  115. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 18th, 2009 at 1:43 pm

    The Yankees are not going to lose revenue on Matsui. If those Japanese signs pull out in RF, someone else will just replace them. A few hundred Asian people buying Matsui jerseys make no difference to the Yankees bottom line.

  116. mick December 18th, 2009 at 1:44 pm

    With Nick the Quick just signed it seems a no brainer that Matt is a done deal.

    Does anyone honestly think we are going into next season without a star in LF.

    Forget platoons of Melky and DeRosa, that’s hogwash.

    Holliday was made to be a Yankee. “Budget” is a catchphrase for “negotiations with Boras.”

  117. GreenBeret7 December 18th, 2009 at 1:46 pm

    Betsy -high on pie
    December 18th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
    I don’t know if I buy what I just posted. First off, Holliday is going to go to Baltimore to be with a few friends? St. Louis is a much better place for him if he doesn’t land here.

    As to waiting on pitchers, what’s the point (unless Sheets insists on waiting it out)? The only pitchers available that should be of any interest to the Yanks are Sheets and Deutscherer; I’ve no interest in Marquis, Piniero and any of their ilk.

    ————————————————————

    Holliday isn’t going to Baltimore. They have 6 outfielders on the 25 man roster, now. 4 are young, talented and cost controlled. Two others are talented, cost controlled and versatile.

  118. NL AL December 18th, 2009 at 1:46 pm

    New York the AL East etc is an entirely different situation

  119. vey December 18th, 2009 at 1:46 pm

    So bosox has now offered Bay the 5th year,says mlbtraderumors.

  120. NYY626 December 18th, 2009 at 1:47 pm

    lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins)
    December 18th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
    The Yankees are not going to lose revenue on Matsui. If those Japanese signs pull out in RF, someone else will just replace them. A few hundred Asian people buying Matsui jerseys make no difference to the Yankees bottom line.
    ____________________________________________________________
    I went into the Yankee Store yesterday by the South St Seaport and all of the Matsui shirts were 50% off. It was kinda sad :(

  121. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 1:48 pm

    G. love-

    I was never concerned about the budget issue.

    Was thinking it a “straw” man.

    As far as Damon coming back hat in hand I do not agree with your analysis. I dont think the Yankees would ever consider Damon a full time LF any longer.

    We can agree to disagree on that one.

    Anyway, i doubt he comes back now. hat in hand or not.

    They gave him lot’s of time, and I am aware that thye like him but not enough to sacrifice TEAM construction for him.

  122. stuart December 18th, 2009 at 1:48 pm

    i love when fans talk about fair deals for players. THIS IS NOT MONOPOLY..Damon made $52 mill over the last 4 years. if that is fair you are a moron. Teachers make $50k, A cancer research doctor makes $200K, and guy in the military starts out at $30k or less.

    Damon and Boros were fools and they will be getting Abreud this offseason.. Johnson is a good signing 1 yr….. even the yanks have a budget, what a concept…….

  123. Ted Lilly will be a Yankee December 18th, 2009 at 1:48 pm

    While I would love for the Yanks to get Holliday and sign Ben Sheets, I don’t think either will happen. It looks like they’ll go and get one low cost pitcher, either as a fifth starter, or a reliever.

    Once the season begins, if they have the same struggles as they did last year from the #4 and #5 starters, don’t be surprised to see them make a trade for Ted Lilly. While he isn’t as good as Lee, he would make a solid #4 starter, would come much cheaper than trading for Cliff Lee (assuming he’s available), and last time he was a free agent he wanted to sign with the Yankees. He won’t be a long-term solution, as he will turn 34 in January, but if the Cubs play like they did last year then they most likely will be willing to move him for a decent cost. I honestly would look into obtaining him now, if they can get him for a package of Gardner, Miranda, and perhaps one or two B level prospects, and have the Cubs pay half of his 2010 salary.

    Either way, I predict that Ted Lilly will become a Yankee in 2010

  124. mick December 18th, 2009 at 1:48 pm

    I can see it now:

    Christmas Eve or New Years Eve (your pick)

    Matt Holliday holding up his new #6 jersey for ecstatic Yankee fans to see and all rivals to hate.

  125. Betsy -high on pie December 18th, 2009 at 1:49 pm

    Alright – Nick the Stick is back -nice. He obviously wanted to come back to NY, which is sweet. He’ll have a very good year (hopefully) and parlay that into a multi-year deal for whomever.

    Damon is Boras’ boss, not the other way around. If Damon wanted to be back badly enough, he would have. However, he chose $$$ over a really great situation for him – that’s his problem. Wherever he lands, it won’t be as perfect for him as in NY.

    The Yankees love Sheets, there is no ? about it. If they want him, they will make a very strong play for him.

  126. G. Love December 18th, 2009 at 1:50 pm

    Is the filter set to block posts with the word Gammons?

    I just posted how Gammons tweeted that Boston offered Holliday 5 years and 82.5 million.

    The timing of this tweet is curious.

    Wouldn’t put it past Gammons to leak that info because he knows the Yankees are about to pounce on Holliday and wants to up the ante.

  127. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 18th, 2009 at 1:50 pm

    “Now that the Dodgers have traded Juan Pierre, the Angels are optimistic about unloading Gary Matthews Jr. and his contract”
    ————————————————————
    -per Ed Price

    funniest thing i read all day.

  128. Betsy -high on pie December 18th, 2009 at 1:50 pm

    GB, how are you feeling today?

    I can’t see it either..

  129. stuart December 18th, 2009 at 1:51 pm

    yanks are not getting holliday dreamers….

  130. Betsy -high on pie December 18th, 2009 at 1:51 pm

    Oh brother…..I do not want Holliday on the Sox.

  131. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 18th, 2009 at 1:52 pm

    “Wouldn’t put it past Gammons to leak that info because he knows the Yankees are about to pounce on Holliday and wants to up the ante
    ———————————————

    except that would mean Gammons is connected

  132. DaSaint007 December 18th, 2009 at 1:53 pm

    Current projecteed 2010 Team:

    Starters: CC (L), AJ, Pettitte (L), Joba, Hughes

    Relievers: Rivera, Marte (L), Gaudin, Aceves, Robertson, Melancon, Dunn (L)

    Infield:
    1B Teixeria
    2B Cano
    SS Jeter
    3B ARod
    3B/SS Pena

    Outfield:
    LF Cabrera
    CF Granderson
    RF Swisher
    OF Gardner
    OF Hoffmann

    C: Posada, Cervelli

    DH: Johnson

    Is there room for a utility infielder? Sure.
    Will they carry Gardner and Hoffmann – not a chance.
    I also can see an upgrade to Dunn, and Gaudin has trade value as does Mitre who I didn’t list.

    Bottom line: more moves to be made beore opening day.

  133. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 18th, 2009 at 1:53 pm

    Betsy,

    That was before they made an offer to Lackey. Holliday turned it down so they gave the money to Lackey.

  134. G. Love December 18th, 2009 at 1:53 pm

    Betsy,

    Gammons posted they offered that to Holliday before signing Lackey.

    I’m assuming that means it was Holliday or Lackey, not both.

    The timing of him revealing this info speaks volumes to me. I think Boston is starting to get concerned the Yankees are going to sign Holliday.

  135. Chip December 18th, 2009 at 1:54 pm

    Does anyone honestly think we are going into next season without a star in LF.

    Why not? Yankees won the WS with Melky batting 9th in CF, why can’t they win the WS with Melky batting 9th in LF?

  136. SJ44 December 18th, 2009 at 1:54 pm

    GLove,

    Bingo.

    I’ll believe Holliday is going to the Red Sox when he’s sitting next to Theo at the PC.

    Until then, its BS.

  137. PreteFunkEra December 18th, 2009 at 1:55 pm

    is there a link for the NJ signing becoming official?

  138. GreenBeret7 December 18th, 2009 at 1:55 pm

    Betsy -high on pie
    December 18th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
    GB, how are you feeling today?

    I can’t see it either..

    ————————————————————

    Doing fine, Betsy. Just a little tired right now. Thank you. Very kind of you to ask.

  139. Yankee in ND December 18th, 2009 at 1:55 pm

    Any chance we go for Bedard? I know he’s been injured for the better of the last 2 years, but his numbers look real good to me.

  140. Ted Lilly will be a Yankee December 18th, 2009 at 1:56 pm

    Nope, Holliday isn’t going to be a Yankee. But Ted Lilly might.

    Gardner, Miranda, one or two b-level prospects for Ted Lilly, with the Cubs paying at least $5M of his 2010 salary.

    Mark my words…this is going to happen!

  141. mick December 18th, 2009 at 1:56 pm

    Gammons is looking to drive up Holliday’s price as we get set to sign.

    If we are getting him for 5/80m, would he take the extra 2.5m from Boston.

    I doubt it.

  142. Phil December 18th, 2009 at 1:57 pm

    Right now we still have a big hole in Left.

  143. SJ44 December 18th, 2009 at 1:57 pm

    They won 4 World Series with Chad Curtis and a LF platoon.

    They don’t need a star at every position.

  144. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 18th, 2009 at 1:57 pm

    “Any chance we go for Bedard? I know he’s been injured for the better of the last 2 years, but his numbers look real good to me”
    —————————————————–

    have been wondering what his health is. Have not seen his name mentioned on MLB Trade Rumors all winter

    ?

  145. mick December 18th, 2009 at 1:57 pm

    Why not? Yankees won the WS with Melky batting 9th in CF, why can’t they win the WS with Melky batting 9th in LF?
    ———————————————————-

    Why isn’t Melky back in CF this year then?

  146. CR9 December 18th, 2009 at 1:58 pm

    PGammo obviously posted that out of concern of the Yankees signing him.

    He has to do his diligent duty to try and stymy the Yankees organization..

    ___

    “memo to Josh Johnson:get an agent who won’t embarress you for his pitiable self-promotion”

    This was also posted by P Gammo. He could have substituted words and made it the following, including but not limited to P Gammo himself.

    memo to ESPN: get some personalities who won’t embarrass you for their pitiable self-Red Sox-promotion.

  147. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 18th, 2009 at 1:59 pm

    “Why isn’t Melky back in CF this year then?”
    ———————————————-

    becuz the Yankees stole Curtis Granderson

  148. Mark in Tampa December 18th, 2009 at 1:59 pm

    I think I have figured out the Baltimore strategy:

    1) Figure out who the Yankees might sign-Teixeira, Holliday, etc.

    2) Offer them a deal carefully calculated to be fair, but below the other offers.

    3) Stir up fan base that if this guy doesn’t take the O’s offer, he is a bad guy.

    4) Oriole fans come out in the early season in droves to boo the new Yankee signing out of the building for spurning Baltimore.

    5) Late season, when the O’s are hopelessly out of it and fans are no longer showing up, Yankee fans fill the stadium to counter the early season treatment from O’s fans.

    Genius, pure genius!

  149. Phil December 18th, 2009 at 2:00 pm

    When Curtis was in the AL East is was less competitive.

  150. mick December 18th, 2009 at 2:00 pm

    All signs point to Holliday in LF come Opening Day.

    The dissing of Damon, the signing of Johnson.

    I don’t believe you experts can’t see this, buying into the “budget” hype.

  151. SJ44 December 18th, 2009 at 2:00 pm

    Ted Lilly is coming off shoulder surgery and may not be ready until June.

    They have no interest in Ted Lilly.

  152. Betsy -high on pie December 18th, 2009 at 2:00 pm

    Thanks, guys…..this filter is annoying, by the way.

  153. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 2:00 pm

    Mick-
    that would be a very, very cool image.

    I am wondering if might take longer than i had originally hoped for. Maybe beyond Xmas or New year’s.

    Why ?

    There must be a lot of Cat and Mouse stuff going on between the two camps.Why would it take so long otherwise.

    SJ made some great points this morning when i asked him what he thought might be an obstacle to concluding a deal.

    His answer:

    Holliday must be willing to take a back-loaded deal.

    Will they, and is that true ?

    I dont beleive offers would be exchanged until there is some proximity between the numbers. You saw how that seemed to affect the Damon situation. They were just to damn far apart.
    so negotiations may not have even begun.

    I hope that is not the case here and that they are already
    dancing at least. Waiting too long has other hidden dangers.

    Actually i am sort of surpised that the cardinals did not make their offer time-sensitive to apply a bit more pressure.

    Maybe that was not what they wanted though ?

    What is there backup plan if the yankees get Holliday ?

    They amy be risking things waiting so long. Maybe they dont have another targety in mind ?

    All speculation on my part.

    Sooner (no pun intended) is better than later.

    I was hoping the negiotations would be more straightforward but they may not be.

  154. DaSaint007 December 18th, 2009 at 2:01 pm

    If I were a betting man:

    Bay signs with boston and not the Metsies.

    Holliday signs with St. Louis.

    Yanks sign Bedard not Sheets.

  155. mick December 18th, 2009 at 2:01 pm

    becuz the Yankees stole Curtis Granderson

    ——————————————

    No. Becuz they got somebody better!

  156. christina25 December 18th, 2009 at 2:01 pm

    The Red Sox is concerned that you maybe be getting him? The Red Sox knows already that you are involved with Holliday. Why do you think they walked away and signed Lackey and Cameron? Theo and the Red Sox management are not fools.

  157. Bronx Jeers December 18th, 2009 at 2:01 pm

    Sox did that before Lackey.

    It’s not a current offer.

    I think Holliday will require 6 yrs/17 mil for 102 mil guaranteed.

    And I think they will wait,wait,wait and only act on Holliday in case of a doomsday scenario such as the Sox getting Adrian Gonzalez.

    If the Red Sox stay the with the same lineup, so will the Yanks.

    It’s time to explore starters and some arms for the pen.

  158. ANSKY December 18th, 2009 at 2:02 pm

    You seem to be aware of the pulse of Holliday talks, SJ … based on your info & hunches do you give it a 50/50 shot of happening, or is it a lot closer to likely than not?

    Adding his bat to the lineup would make losing Matsui for Johnson easier to swallow. Both are not fast, Johnson’s OBP is good, their SLG is similar, but Matsui was Matsui.

  159. Lost in Holliday-in December 18th, 2009 at 2:02 pm

    Test post, am I unable to post again?

  160. CR9 December 18th, 2009 at 2:02 pm

    vinny b

    The media does spread information. And information spread by the media does reach General Managers.

    So, another instance, of what is supposed to be an unbiased journalist, attempting to affect a business dealing.

    Way to go, Peter, you have started anew where you left off with ESPN.

  161. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 18th, 2009 at 2:03 pm

    Boston.com had the Red Sox at 170 million. I do not think they have the money for Bay.

  162. Crawdaddy December 18th, 2009 at 2:03 pm

    “If I were a betting man:

    Bay signs with boston and not the Metsies.

    Holliday signs with St. Louis.

    Yanks sign Bedard not Sheets.”

    God, I hope not because I heard too many negative stories about Bedard quiting on the teams he plays due to any little injury.

  163. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 18th, 2009 at 2:03 pm

    “The Red Sox knows already that you are involved with Holliday”
    ——————————————

    hold-up. You think the Yankees are involved with Holliday?

  164. Lost in Holliday-in December 18th, 2009 at 2:03 pm

    Okay, I can post. I don’t know why I have problems posting.

    Anyway,

    As I said last night in a post..

    The exact offer: 5/82.5 and Gammons is a day late as usual.

    However, he also has some of his facts incorrect.

  165. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 2:04 pm

    Lost-
    by all means go ahead.

  166. Betsy -high on pie December 18th, 2009 at 2:04 pm

    Mark, that’s hilarious!

    Phil, good point….

    SJ, are you basically satisfied with the lineup as is?

    I’m hoping Sheets wants to come to the Yanks because, I agree with Rosenthal, they won’t get into a bidding war over him.

  167. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 2:04 pm

    Lost- such as ?

  168. CR9 December 18th, 2009 at 2:05 pm

    “memo to Josh Johnson:get an agent who won’t embarress you for his pitiable self-promotion”

    If that is not the most hypocritical line from Gammons…

    It’s lines like that from him that infuriate me.

    He has become the biggest embarrassment to professional journalists.

    And all the others follow his lead.

  169. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 18th, 2009 at 2:05 pm

    “Boston.com had the Red Sox at 170 million”
    ———————————————

    wow. That’s a lot for a mid/small market team to spend

  170. Jim Mason December 18th, 2009 at 2:06 pm

    “They won 4 World Series with Chad Curtis and a LF platoon.

    They don’t need a star at every position.”

    Right. Unfortunately about 80% of the fan base these days does not understand this.

  171. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 2:06 pm

    DaSaint-
    No offense. Dont bet.

  172. CB December 18th, 2009 at 2:06 pm

    Mark DeRosa is exactly the kind of player the yankees should strongly avoid singing as a free agent.

    If signed to play LF, he’s precisely the type of player who is not going to deliver value – especially on a three year deal.

    He is a misallocation of resources – signing him would harken back to the days when the team got poor value from their free agent signings.

  173. DaSaint007 December 18th, 2009 at 2:07 pm

    I calculate the Yankee payroll (as I outlined in my roster above), at about $191.3 million.

  174. G. Love December 18th, 2009 at 2:08 pm

    It just seems very suspicious to me that today of all days Gammons would choose to “tweet” this tidbit about Holliday.

    The Red Sox know if the Yankees add him to LF, their starting pitching will be bludgeoned 19 times a year and their bullpen will need weeks to recover from series with the Yankees.

    Doesn’t make signing Holliday a given, but I don’t see why Gammons would mention this all of a sudden.

    I think Boston is upset that the Yankees may get Holliday at bargain holiday prices.

  175. mick December 18th, 2009 at 2:08 pm

    They don’t need a star at every position.”
    ————————————————

    They already have Swisher in RF to play the Chad Curtis role.

  176. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 18th, 2009 at 2:08 pm

    “I think Holliday will require 6 yrs/17 mil for 102 mil guaranteed.
    If the Red Sox stay the with the same lineup, so will the Yanks. It’s time to explore starters and some arms for the pen”
    ————————————————-

    nuclear winter

  177. DaSaint007 December 18th, 2009 at 2:09 pm

    MTU, no offense taken.

    There’s a reason I stay out of the casinos.

  178. SJ44 December 18th, 2009 at 2:10 pm

    Cashman isn’t getting into a bidding war for Holliday.

    That’s not how you work Boras.

    You come to a point where you say, “I have X to spend on the player. It has to be structured in the following way.

    “If you shop it, its off the table. Let me know if it works”.

    That’s what he did with Tex last year and (IMO) is what will go down with Holliday this year.

    Will he accept? No idea.

    I do know there won’t be any bidding war from the Yankees side regardless of what fiction writers may come up with on trade rumor sites.

  179. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 2:11 pm

    Lost-

    Are the Yankees and Boras dancing on holliday yet, or they still just engaged in verbal foreplay over #’s ?

    Have the Yankees committed themselves as of yet ? To getting him i mean.

  180. BJK December 18th, 2009 at 2:11 pm

    christina25 says:

    December 18, 2009 at 2:01 pm

    Theo and the Red Sox management are not fools.

    ———————————–

    It’s not like they’re trying to pay one of their most clutch RBI guys 9 million dollars to play for another team or anything.

  181. DaSaint007 December 18th, 2009 at 2:12 pm

    CC Sabathia (L) $23,000,000
    AJ Burnett $16,500,000
    Andy Pettitte (L) $11,750,000
    Joba Chamberlain $475,000
    Phil Hughes $432,575

    Mariano Rivera $15,000,000
    Damaso Marte (L)$4,000,000
    Chad Gaudin $2,250,000
    Alfredo Aceves $432,575
    Dave Robertson $432,575
    Mark Melancon $400,000
    Mike Dunn (L) $400,000

    Mark Teixeira $20,000,000
    Robinson Cano $9,000,000
    Derek Jeter $21,000,000
    Alex Rodriguez $32,000,000
    Ramiro Pena $406,825

    Melky Cabrera $1,800,000
    Curtis Granderson $5,500,000
    Nick Swisher $6,750,000
    Brett Gardner $432,575
    Jamie Hoffman $400,000

    Jorge Posada $13,100,000
    Francisco Cervelli $406,825

    Nick Johnson $5,500,000

    Total: $191,368,950

  182. SJ44 December 18th, 2009 at 2:12 pm

    CB,

    I was told at the Winter Meetings that (FWIW), the Yankees don’t like DeRosa at a LF option because they don’t feel that’s his best position.

    JMO but, I think DeRosa talk is a smokescreen.

  183. mick December 18th, 2009 at 2:12 pm

    Well said, SJ.

  184. Yankee in ND December 18th, 2009 at 2:13 pm

    Lost- as you have some sources…are the Yankees definitely out on Damon, or could he return?

  185. G. Love December 18th, 2009 at 2:14 pm

    And if they weren’t investigating other LF options why would they even need a smokescreen?

  186. Crawdaddy December 18th, 2009 at 2:14 pm

    “CB,

    I was told at the Winter Meetings that (FWIW), the Yankees don’t like DeRosa at a LF option because they don’t feel that’s his best position.

    JMO but, I think DeRosa talk is a smokescreen.”

    SJ44,

    Do you think the Yankees are after Holliday?

  187. mick December 18th, 2009 at 2:14 pm

    Nick Swisher $6,750,000
    —————————-
    How did he get that contract? Might have to rid that but who would pick it up?

  188. Phil December 18th, 2009 at 2:15 pm

    Nick’s deal is for one year with a mutual option for a second year. Strong move.

    Signing DeRosa would be the opposite of everything we’ve done so far this season. I can believe the Yanks let him drop their name, cause he’s a good guy, but no way they sign him as a LF.

  189. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 2:16 pm

    Vinny-
    WHO were you quoting there please ?

  190. Lost in Holliday-in December 18th, 2009 at 2:16 pm

    SJ44:

    “Cashman isn’t getting into a bidding war for Holliday.”

    Exactly. The Yankees respect their relationship with Boras and of course it’s mutual. The main sentiment is that they are done being Boras Corps “Pot of gold” on the other side of the rainbow.

    MTU:

    “Have the Yankees committed themselves as of yet ? To getting him i mean.”

    Even if I had the answer to that, do you think it would be a wise idea for me to post it? :-) *sorry.

  191. mike December 18th, 2009 at 2:17 pm

    NJ deal has mutual option for 2011 @ 5.5m

    http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/6805206989

  192. CB December 18th, 2009 at 2:17 pm

    SJ,

    I agree it’s all vapors. DeRosa is optics. He’s simply not that big an improvement over melky in LF to justify the money.

    And as a “super utlity” guy (who doesn’t play SS…) I’d give Russo a shot before spending any money on DeRosa. I don’t see people’s fascination with him.

  193. DaSaint007 December 18th, 2009 at 2:18 pm

    SJ,

    I don’t see them going much past $195 million, so there’s not much room without making some substantial subtractions. Besides there’s still most liley pitching to add.

  194. S.o.S. December 18th, 2009 at 2:18 pm

    lol. If Swish is taken Curtis spot than Melky can take Brocius role.

  195. Chip December 18th, 2009 at 2:19 pm

    My bets:

    Damon to CHC as a CF

    Bay to Seattle

    Holliday stays in St. Louis

    Vlad to the NYM

    Sheets to NYY

    Piniero to NYM

    Beltre to LAA

    Bedard to LAA

    DeRosa to San Fran

    Ryan Church to NYY :-) just wanted to see if you’re paying attention.

  196. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 18th, 2009 at 2:19 pm

    MTU:

    was quoting ‘Bronx Jeers’ and his Dr Strangelove reference : )

  197. Lost in Holliday-in December 18th, 2009 at 2:19 pm

    I can tell you this. Mr. Holliday is looking up the chimney holding a plate of cookies and a glass of milk.

    Probably more anxious than an 8 year old boy waiting for Santa to deliver his new BMX bike and a BB gun.

    :> couldn’t resist!

  198. Betsy -high on pie December 18th, 2009 at 2:19 pm

    Cash to be on with Kay at 3pm

  199. Gary December 18th, 2009 at 2:20 pm

    Well isn’t this stupid. Cano should be our #2 hitter, it’s just a statement on how bad his discipline and strike zone control is a .300 hitter that hits in the bottom of the order.

    I don’t like Johnson as #2.

  200. Crawdaddy December 18th, 2009 at 2:21 pm

    “SJ,

    I don’t see them going much past $195 million, so there’s not much room without making some substantial subtractions. Besides there’s still most liley pitching to add.”

    You really are buying that payroll koolaid that Hal and Cashman are dishing out. Again, the payroll cap is a moving target determined by market circumstances. In short, it’s a soft cap for the right player.

  201. Joe Monte December 18th, 2009 at 2:21 pm

    Sign Jermaine Dye for a one year deal.

  202. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 2:21 pm

    Lost-
    well can you at least hint at wether they have gotten past the prelininaries then ?

    Of course you are right about posting too many specifics.

    One never knows whose eyes might be seeking/looking.

    sorry. Just hungry for more detail. Have taken this about as far as i can with the clues you have given.

    Thanks.

  203. Lost in Holliday-in December 18th, 2009 at 2:21 pm

    MTU:

    As I said in last nights post..

    “There is STRONG interest in signing Holliday from the majority”.

    I’d call it committed.

  204. Betsy -high on pie December 18th, 2009 at 2:21 pm

    I was talking about a bidding war over Sheets, not Holliday.

    Why isn’t DeRosa a good fit and who is he a smokescreen for? Holliday?

    In any case, sounds like a good deal on all ends for the Yanks and NJ

  205. Phil December 18th, 2009 at 2:22 pm

    Seattle just traded for Milton Bradley. They’re not getting Bay. PAY ATTENTION, CHIP!

  206. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 2:23 pm

    Lost-
    Thank you. that is all i needed to know. Very, very much appreciated.

  207. SJ44 December 18th, 2009 at 2:23 pm

    JMO but, until guys are officially off the table, the Yankees are “in” on everybody.

    That’s how they work. That’s how they have ALWAYS worked.

    I crack up when I read the emotional children on this site rip Cashman and Hal for being “asleep”.

    Yes, the GM of the World Champions has no idea what his roster looks like. That’s comical.

    He was so “asleep” that he began to engage in Granderson talks WHILE HANDING IN HIS WORLD SERIES ROSTER!

    Does that sound like an “asleep” GM?

    Hal laid it out perfectly yesterday.

    For the right guy, and the right deal, they are open to anything.

    The Yankees calculate payroll by AAV.

    I don’t see them putting up another 16+ million dollar AAV in 2010. Perhaps, not even in 2011. At least with anybody in this FA class.

    If an interested player is willing to be creative, I believe the Yankees will work with that player.

    If not, they will pass.

    Its why Damon isn’t even out of the equation yet.

    Its pretty clear, if you just WATCH what’s happening, the Yankees aren’t “caving” on anybody.

    They have assigned dollar values for EVERY player they have targeted.

    They aren’t going to be talked out of those values by any agent, fan, or member of the media.

    They are also willing to wait until January to snag the right guys.

    They are in a great position right now and I don’t see them giving that up because some fan sites or Mike Lupica are in a state of panic.

  208. Gary December 18th, 2009 at 2:24 pm

    # Phil December 18th, 2009 at 2:22 pm

    Seattle just traded for Milton Bradley. They’re not getting Bay. PAY ATTENTION, CHIP!

    Bay is a MET they are just jerking him around a bit.

  209. NYYROC December 18th, 2009 at 2:24 pm

    I am glad that Nick Johnson is back with the NYY. Not that the lineup will turn out this way, but can you imagine if the 2 Nicks hit back to back. Seems like they are both always in 3-2 counts. Pitchers will end up throwing 20 pitches in an inning just facing those 2. Go Yankees!

  210. blake December 18th, 2009 at 2:24 pm

    Here comes Santa Cashman

  211. Chip December 18th, 2009 at 2:25 pm

    Phil,

    I know that Seattle just traded for Bradley. That doesn’t mean they still don’t need a LF. Seattle can (and likely will) DH Bradley and can play Bay in LF.

    Ichiro
    Figgins
    Bay
    Bradley

    as their top four.

  212. Bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes December 18th, 2009 at 2:26 pm

    GreenBeret7
    December 18th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
    Betsy -high on pie
    December 18th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
    GB, how are you feeling today?
    I can’t see it either..
    ————————————————————
    Doing fine, Betsy. Just a little tired right now. Thank you. Very kind of you to ask.
    =====

    GB7,

    Don’t think I’ve had the chance to wish you the best when we have both have been online, so best wishes on your recovery.

    Always glad when I scroll back to see you’ve been in here causing havoc.

    Don’t know if you’re aware of something called medical qigong – may want to ask your Drs about it or do some investigating.

  213. Gary December 18th, 2009 at 2:26 pm

    If Holliday comes then Melky is gone. I’d suspect a deal of Melky and Hughes or Joba for a pitcher would be the other move.

  214. Chip December 18th, 2009 at 2:26 pm

    JMO but, until guys are officially off the table, the Yankees are “in” on everybody.

    Very much agree – and even if they aren’t really in on someone, they will be linked to that player because they’re the Yankees.

  215. Bret the Hitman December 18th, 2009 at 2:28 pm

    Good afternoon ladies and gents :)

    If Nick Johnson and Matt Holliday are signed, Melky Cabrera becomes the 4th outfielder. He’s much more valuable in a trade.

    Keeping Gardner would make more sense because his speed and defense make him a valuable bench player.

    I guess I’m saying I’d rather trade Melky than have him sit on the bench but I’m ok with Gardner as the 4th OF.

    Of course, if Johnson is signed, but not Holliday, then I’m assuming the Yankees feel fairly confident Carl Crawford will reach free agency.

    Next season, both Crawford and Lee could be Yankees.

  216. Joe Monte December 18th, 2009 at 2:28 pm

    Cashman will go all in on Carl Crawford after the 2010 season so there’s little chance he’s going to sign Bay or Holliday.

  217. SJ44 December 18th, 2009 at 2:29 pm

    Johnny Damon is not being looked at as a CF by anybody.

    The White Sox aren’t signing him to play CF.

    Nor are the Mariners in on Bay any longer because they got Milton Bradley today.

    They are a team that is taking great pride in their defense. They are very concerned about Bay’s ability to play solid LF defense.

    Because Omar is a tool, and desperate, I suspect he will cave and sign Jason Bay. He probably feels like he has to do something and he’s always good at spending (wasting) the Wilpon’s money that Bernie Madoff didn’t steal.

  218. Bret the Hitman December 18th, 2009 at 2:29 pm

    Gary
    December 18th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
    If Holliday comes then Melky is gone. I’d suspect a deal of Melky and Hughes or Joba for a pitcher would be the other move.

    There’s definitely a market for those guys.

  219. five iron from fenway December 18th, 2009 at 2:29 pm

    How about this scenario:
    Holliday to the Yanks
    SWISHER traded
    Swisher has a much higher current salary than Melky. Melky can play right with his arm. You have Johnson who replaces OBP man in Swisher.

    Jeter
    Johnson
    Tex
    Arod
    Holliday
    Granderson
    Posado
    Cano
    Melky

  220. NYYROC December 18th, 2009 at 2:30 pm

    Good info on RAB regarding yesterday’s presser at YS. RAB claims that neither Girardi nor Cashman said definitively that Hughes and Joba were fighting for one rotation spot as reported on 1050. They could both be in the rotation at least for part of the year.

  221. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 18th, 2009 at 2:30 pm

    “If Holliday comes then Melky is gone. I’d suspect a deal of Melky and Hughes or Joba for a pitcher would be the other move”
    ———————————————-

    don’t know about Holliday, but the Cubs need a CF’er (cough*MELKY*cough)

  222. DaSaint007 December 18th, 2009 at 2:31 pm

    SJ is saying what I’ve felt for weeks. Each position has a dollar value attached, and frankly, it has to be affordable to fit within their budget, which any and every good business has.

    Right now, IMO, they’re at about $191 mil and change. Pitching is next, as they can go to war with their position players right now.

    But they’re not going to get into a bidding war over Sheets, which is why I think Bedard may be a target for starting pitching depth, yet won’t break the bank. If he does well, fine, he’s a lefty, has AL East experience, etc. If he fails, ok, only a few bucks (relatively speaking).

  223. Gary December 18th, 2009 at 2:31 pm

    Joe Monte December 18th, 2009 at 2:28 pm

    Cashman will go all in on Carl Crawford after the 2010 season so there’s little chance he’s going to sign Bay or Holliday.

    You couod be right but if he gets Holliday, then the play in 2010 is for Mauer.

    Posada has maybe one good year left as catcher. The Yanks have a hole they need to plug there soon.

  224. JohnC December 18th, 2009 at 2:31 pm

    Sign Sheets and Chapman and call it an offseason.

  225. Bret the Hitman December 18th, 2009 at 2:32 pm

    five iron from fenway
    December 18th, 2009 at 2:29 pm
    How about this scenario:
    Holliday to the Yanks
    SWISHER traded
    Swisher has a much higher current salary than Melky. Melky can play right with his arm. You have Johnson who replaces OBP man in Swisher.

    I think this team really values Swisher in the clubhouse not to mention the baseball diamond. I doubt they deal him.

    Melky was worth 7.2 million dollars last year according to FanGraphs.

    He’ll be dealt if they sign Holliday.

  226. G. Love December 18th, 2009 at 2:33 pm

    I think it would come down to who can bring back more pieces the Yankees like with Swisher and Melky (and Gardner to an extent) if they sign Holliday and decide to trade one of the above.

    You probably get more for Melky because his salary is lower although Swisher is a much more talented hitter.

    I think everything is about money in MLB today so I would think Melky’s market is going to be bigger.

    I’m sure the Cubs wouldn’t mind putting Melky in at CF.

  227. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 2:33 pm

    Sign Holliday, Sheets, and Chapman and THEN call it an offseason.

    In fact you can call it a few offseasons if you need to.

  228. PittsburghYankeeFan December 18th, 2009 at 2:33 pm

    So Lost in Halliday In

    If I read between your lines on the Gammons tweet, it sounds like the Yankees (that’s the wrong fact in the tweet) offered Holliday $82.5 x 5 yesterday (that’s Gammons being a day late)?

  229. Bret the Hitman December 18th, 2009 at 2:34 pm

    DaSaint,

    I forgot all about Bedard

  230. L to the 2nd December 18th, 2009 at 2:34 pm

    I don’t think either Crawford or Mauer will be FAs next year.

    MIN has the money to spend, and this is one guy they really can’t let walk, NYY or BOS throwing $20m+ at him notwithstanding.

    I agree with CB’s point that if you want the best player available for LF, you go with Holliday – he will still be better than any options next year as well.

  231. Frank December 18th, 2009 at 2:35 pm

    “I’d suspect a deal of Melky and Hughes or Joba for a pitcher would be the other move.”

    Melky and one those pitchers would net something pretty damn good. Even one of those pitchers would. Melky by himself gets you very little.

  232. Tripps78 December 18th, 2009 at 2:35 pm

    Why do people keep on talking about Holliday and Bay. They are ok players but nothing special. Carl Crawford is a free agent next year. Now that is a player you salivate over.

    But Holliday and Bay are ok players. That’s why the Yankees are not working to get them.

  233. L to the 2nd December 18th, 2009 at 2:35 pm

    Lost…is the “Deep Throat” of the LoHud board :)

  234. Andrew December 18th, 2009 at 2:35 pm

    Mauer is not going to make it to free agency. Most of the indications point to him re-signing with the Twins.

  235. Gary December 18th, 2009 at 2:36 pm

    L to the 2nd December 18th, 2009 at 2:34 pm

    I don’t think either Crawford or Mauer will be FAs next year.

    MIN has the money to spend, and this is one guy they really can’t let walk, NYY or BOS throwing $20m+ at him notwithstanding.

    I agree with CB’s point that if you want the best player available for LF, you go with Holliday – he will still be better than any options next year as well.

    It may not be all about the money, tradition and probability of winning the big dance may enter into their decision process.

  236. L to the 2nd December 18th, 2009 at 2:37 pm

    Crawford > Holliday? Does not compute.

  237. ADam December 18th, 2009 at 2:37 pm

    Johnson Official

  238. Nick in SF December 18th, 2009 at 2:37 pm

    At this point I am about 85% optimistic that, yes Virginia, there is a Santa Clause.

  239. Wave Your Hat December 18th, 2009 at 2:37 pm

    SJ44-

    A back-loaded contract for Halliday may help in 2010, but it will put the Yanks in a bind in 2012 and 2013, and will lock them out of 2011 in all likelihood. They can’t chance that as long as Joe Mauer is a loose fish.

    Just don’t see a Holliday present for the Yanks.

  240. Pat M. December 18th, 2009 at 2:38 pm

    Want Ads…….Looking for a leftfielder who can hit 5th…..

  241. Frank December 18th, 2009 at 2:38 pm

    Tripps:

    Holliday > Crawford

    And it’s not all that close.

  242. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 18th, 2009 at 2:39 pm

    “At this point I am about 85% optimistic that, yes Virginia, there is a Santa Clause”
    ———————————————-
    this has to be a code

  243. AT December 18th, 2009 at 2:39 pm

    Wait, so in Gammons tweet, he said the Yankees offered Holliday a contract?

  244. no.27 December 18th, 2009 at 2:39 pm

    It’s obvious that Nick Johnson wasn’t signed to replace Matsui as the 5th hitter. That isn’t the point. The point is that Matsui is a better hitter at every aspect other than drawing walks. Matsui is a proven performer on the Yankees in important situations. Who would you rather have up in the 9th inning? Nick Johnson or Matsui? Both players are serious injury risks. Since the money was pretty much even, I think Cashman made a mistake.

    People that think Cashman made a mistake aren’t missing the obvious point that Nick Johnson isn’t going to be the 5 hitter.

    Also, Curtis Granderson as a 5 hitter doesn’t work if he can’t hit lefties.

  245. NYY626 December 18th, 2009 at 2:39 pm

    We can’t trade Melky because Cano will be depressed without his BFF ;)

    In all seriousness, I don’t get why everyone wants to trade Melky anyway. Hes a homegrown guy, hes cheap, has a great arm, and comes through in the clutch. Pretty good #9 I say.

  246. Wave Your Hat December 18th, 2009 at 2:39 pm

    correction: “A back-loaded contract for Holliday may help in 2010…”

  247. CB December 18th, 2009 at 2:39 pm

    “if you want the best player available for LF, you go with Holliday – he will still be better than any options next year as well.”

    Given market dynamics, there’s a real argument to be made that the best LF available over the next two years also may wind up being the best value.

    When you have the convergence of best player available and best value at that position that’s something to take note of.

    It’s hard to see the yankees passing on that kind of opportunity.

    Again – everything depends on price points, but Holliday’s market has made him potentially an outstanding value – better even than Tex.

  248. Bret the Hitman December 18th, 2009 at 2:40 pm

    Pat M.
    December 18th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
    Want Ads…….Looking for a leftfielder who can hit 5th…..

    —-

    :lol:

  249. five iron from fenway December 18th, 2009 at 2:41 pm

    Brett and G,
    I agree that you might get back more for Melky because of his current salary and that Swisher is a better hitter than Melk, but if the Yankees truly have a budget and if SJ is right they base it on AAV then it has to be Swisher who goes to save the Yanks money in 2010. You replace a good deal of Swishers skill set with Johnson, and replace damon with Holliday.

    I am not advocating this move, but I think it has to be considered. If I remember there were some wild rumors earlier in the offseason about Swish being available.

  250. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 2:41 pm

    Pitt-
    JMO but I dont think it has gotten that far yet.

    I think they just talking about thing so far w/o any real offers being exchanged.

    Why do I say that.

    because again reading between the lines if the Yanks appear committed, and money is not really a serious problem though
    they have some limits. IMO they would already have concluded this by now.

    The key thing for me is Does Holliday want the Yanks, and are the Yanks committed to getting him.

    The rest will be worked out provided both parties are FLEXIBLE on the STRUCTURE of the deal. The amount is not necessarily the problem.

    Just a theory.

  251. SJ44 December 18th, 2009 at 2:42 pm

    Joe Mauer isn’t going to be a loose fish Wave.

    Ron Shapiro is his agent. He was also the agent for Cal Ripkin. Shapiro also write a book about the art of being “nice” in negotiations.

    Mauer is with him for a reason. He wants to stay in Minnesota, the Twins want him to stay in Minnesota, and they will end up getting a deal done.

    Perhaps as soon as ST.

    Shapiro’s reputation in the business is for keeping icon players with their teams and not sacrifice too much money to do so.

    Everybody in baseball believes Joe Mauer will be a lifetime Twin. More importantly, so does Joe Mauer! lol

  252. Jim Mason December 18th, 2009 at 2:42 pm

    “The point is that Matsui is a better hitter at every aspect other than drawing walks. Matsui is a proven performer on the Yankees in important situations.”

    better to cut ties a year too soon than a year too late.

  253. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 2:43 pm

    Nick- good to see you again. No offense but I had you beat last night.

  254. Chip December 18th, 2009 at 2:43 pm

    The problem is that there’s not much of a market for Nick Swisher. He makes a lot of money and while he has power and a good eye, he’s also going to hit for a low average and play average defense.

    The Yankees were able to take on Swisher’s contract because they’re the Yankees, but if you’re going to move Swisher to another team that team is going to want to unload a contract in return. Now, because Swisher is productive, you’ll get a productive player in return, but that player’s going to come with a contract. You also have to figure that if the idea is to clear Swisher to free up money for Holliday that you’re not going to trade for an OF. So you’re really talking about a semi-productive pitcher with a fairly pricey contract, on a team looking for offense.

    Some guys who would fit that mold (I’m not endorsing any of these players)

    Barry Zito
    Derek Lowe
    Gil Meche
    Bronson Arroyo
    Aaron Harang

    I’m sure there are some I’m forgetting.

  255. Andrew December 18th, 2009 at 2:43 pm

    This big hole in the 5th spot is a fallacy. The lineup has enough people, currently, who can successfully hit 5th that there is not a 100% pressing need to find a “5th place hitter”. Much of this same noise was around last offseason because people worried about who would protect A-Rod in the lineup, since no one had faith in Matsui staying healthy (even though now after a year of 150 games his knees are apparently back to full strength), nor Posada. The clamoring then was for Mr. Manny Ramirez to be signed. It didn’t happen, yet it all still worked out in the end.

    I have enough faith in Granderson, Posada, Cano and Swisher to provide enough protection behind A-Rod to make it not a necessity to sign another hitter. Starting/relieving is hopefully the main focus now, unless a hitter falls into the Yankees’ laps at the right price.

  256. Jim Mason December 18th, 2009 at 2:44 pm

    Plus, I’d bet Matsui would not be happy with a role as part-time DH. If so, why not bring him back? Because he doesn’t view himself as a part-time player. That is likely the deal-breaker. He still thinks he can play the outfield.

  257. Jim Mason December 18th, 2009 at 2:45 pm

    A hole in the fifth spot? Swisher bats 7th or 8th and would hit cleanup on normal teams.

  258. five iron from fenway December 18th, 2009 at 2:45 pm

    Chip – I don’t think the Yankees would need to get back much, maybe even some minor leaguers. It would be about dumping salary in 2010. Swisher is good but with Holliday, Johnson and Granderson, added to Jeter, Arod, Tex, Posada and Cano you don’t need his bat. Melky is probably just as good if not better defensively in right field and he would be the number 9 hitter.

  259. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 2:46 pm

    Nick- I am sorry you did not receive the info. last night.
    Now that i know you are up to 85%. I need not push you along any further or faster.

  260. Bret the Hitman December 18th, 2009 at 2:47 pm

    five iron from fenway
    December 18th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
    Brett and G,
    I agree that you might get back more for Melky because of his current salary and that Swisher is a better hitter than Melk, but if the Yankees truly have a budget and if SJ is right they base it on AAV then it has to be Swisher who goes to save the Yanks money in 2010. You replace a good deal of Swishers skill set with Johnson, and replace damon with Holliday.
    I am not advocating this move, but I think it has to be considered. If I remember there were some wild rumors earlier in the offseason about Swish being available.

    You could be right about how trading Swisher makes the most financial sense and that his replacement is Nick Johnson while Granderson/Holliday replace Damon and Matsui. There’s definitely a market for Swisher because he had a big year and looks like a big winner right now. He’d definitely be a sell-high type player right now. The downside is, would other team’s be willing to trade something valuable for an OF when it seems there were more OF’s available in free agency than team’s interested?

    Melky plays CF.

    Not as easy to find.

    He earned 1.4 million but was valued at 7.2.

    Like G said, although salary is important, it may come down to other teams demands.

    Certainly, Melky makes more sense in a package with younger players and prospects if the Yankees are looking to add a starter.

  261. no.27 December 18th, 2009 at 2:47 pm

    Bret the Hitman,

    “If Nick Johnson and Matt Holliday are signed, Melky Cabrera becomes the 4th outfielder. He’s much more valuable in a trade.

    Keeping Gardner would make more sense because his speed and defense make him a valuable bench player.

    I guess I’m saying I’d rather trade Melky than have him sit on the bench but I’m ok with Gardner as the 4th OF.

    Of course, if Johnson is signed, but not Holliday, then I’m assuming the Yankees feel fairly confident Carl Crawford will reach free agency.

    Next season, both Crawford and Lee could be Yankees.”

    -No. If the Yankees sign Holliday, they will have close to $200M committed to 12 players. That means no Lee and no Crawford. Do you really think they’d add another $30-35 million for 2 more players?

  262. SJ44 December 18th, 2009 at 2:47 pm

    The Yankees don’t take on bad contracts anymore so, none of those guys are options.

    This is not 2004.

    They don’t take on bad contracts so, those who want to propose trade deals having the Yankees take on bad deals aren’t following their current blueprint.

    All you have to do is look at the Granderson deal as proof.

    Those are the kind of trades the Yankees are interested in doing.

    Anything less, and they will just use free agency and their farm system to fill their needs.

  263. Nick in SF December 18th, 2009 at 2:48 pm

    MTU: I read your email this morning (and replied).

    Did you make a ‘yes Virginia’ reference last night?

    Genius steals!

  264. DaSaint007 December 18th, 2009 at 2:48 pm

    1. Mauer is not a realistic option. You don’t open a new stadium and let your ‘face of the franchise’ walk away.

    2. Puljos will not leave St. Louis for much the same reason as item 1 above. He’s the face of the franchise.

    3. It doesn’t matter that Holliday may be better than Crawford. Crawford is an excellent LF and will be more affordable than Holliday while fitting in with the fabric of the team that is being constructed. If I hear one more person tell me that it’s about being better I’ll scream! There is no need to have the best player, at the highest price, at each position. No, you just need an excellent, affordable player that FITS with the TEAM plan. Crawford can do that.

    4. Irrespective of item 3 above, there is no guarantee that Crawford will be available. But there never is. GM’s take those chances all the time. Right now, there is a budget, and to fit under that budget, moves would have to be made if Holliday is a legitimate target. Is it worth trading Swisher to do that? I don’t think trading Melky frees enough space in the budget to make it work.

    5. Pitching is the next focus, and signing a $18 million/year hitter right now doesn’t help in solving pitching depth. Pitching, pitching, pitching.

  265. five iron from fenway December 18th, 2009 at 2:48 pm

    Bret – Again I am not looking for the Yankees to get a return to help the current team substantially. Just a bench player or even better a low to mid level high upside SS prospect (I can always dream).

  266. Phil December 18th, 2009 at 2:48 pm

    Chip, Milton Bradley is a better defender than Bay, who as pointed out above, will be a Met shortly.

  267. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Back Johnny!!!! December 18th, 2009 at 2:49 pm

    I think its too late for a letter :cry:

  268. Boston Dave - XXVII December 18th, 2009 at 2:49 pm

    I’d like to keep Swisher.

    I know a good bench is a luxury but he’s a switch hitter who can play multiple positions.

    If they get DeRosa, fine trade him.

    Otherwise, I like the flexibility he brings while still being a great platoon player.

    Oh yeah – he’s great for the clubhouse and team unity he brings.

  269. PittsburghYankeeFan December 18th, 2009 at 2:50 pm

    Can the Yankees “salary dump” Igawa? It would save $4 million, if they are up against such a “hard” cap. Could be used for Halliday.

    The fact that they don’t is proof that such a cap is a figment of the imagination.

  270. Frank December 18th, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    “Wait, so in Gammons tweet, he said the Yankees offered Holliday a contract?”

    No. He tweeted that Boston offered Bay 4/$60M and Holliday 5/$85M before turning to Lackey.

  271. PittsburghYankeeFan December 18th, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    I meant Holliday.

  272. AeroFANatic December 18th, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    If we can get Holliday at 5/75 or about a 15mill AAV, how could we pass that up? Trading a Swisher and/or Melky next off season offsets half this total…for a player in his prime to man LF for the next half decade???

    That’s gotta be done.

  273. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 18th, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    “I crack up when I read the emotional children on this site rip Cashman and Hal for being “asleep”. Yes, the GM of the World Champions has no idea what his roster looks like. That’s comical.
    He was so “asleep” that he began to engage in Granderson talks WHILE HANDING IN HIS WORLD SERIES ROSTER!
    Does that sound like an “asleep” GM?”
    ————————————————-

    just like Cashman backed himself into a corner, and was ‘blindsided’ by Matsui signing with the Angels. LMAO

  274. Nick in SF December 18th, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    “I think its too late for a letter”

    It’s not too late for a ‘Dear John’ letter. :)

  275. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 18th, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    Michael Kay: “I wonder if the Yankees are laying in the weeds for Matt Holliday”. 2:52 pm

  276. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 2:53 pm

    Nick-
    sorry. I just saw your reponse. Thanks.

    If you saw the response form our friend on here a little while ago You might want to raise that # a tad ?

    The fact that you took that as “real” was the key. So did I.
    HOW do you prove that to others except by the end result ?

    It takes a bit of faith to go with reason. Right ?

  277. sab December 18th, 2009 at 2:53 pm

    if you’re looking to drop 7- 9 million in salary you don’t trade swisher – you offer jeter 6 million and rivera 3 million less when negotiating their contract next year..

    trading swish’s relatively small salary is dumb considering how much production he is providing vs the low amount of money he is paid….

    you trim the fat with jeter mostly and rivera a little since he’ll be on the wrong side of 40 once his new contract begins..if baseball is a business then its dumb business paying a 38 – 40 year old SS 20 million a year and a reliever who is god like but is over 40 – 15 million a year for 3 more years…

  278. Chip December 18th, 2009 at 2:53 pm

    Five Iron – I agree that the Yankees wouldn’t need to take back much. But the point I was trying to make is that the Yankees were able to give up Wilson Betemit and take back Nick Swisher because the Yankees are in a fiancial position to absorb a contract like that – not many other teams in baseball are. They would want the Yankees to take back a contract in return.

    SJ44 – I agree that the Yankees are not looking to take back bad contracts. Just saying that if they want to move Swisher then they would have to take back someone’s contract (or eat some of Swisher’s money). I for one think the Yankees are done with the major spending on the offensive side of the ball.

  279. Frank December 18th, 2009 at 2:53 pm

    “Can the Yankees “salary dump” Igawa? It would save $4 million, if they are up against such a “hard” cap. Could be used for Halliday”

    PYF:

    I think the problem would be that nobody would be interested in paying Igawa’s $4M, even if it cost nothing in terms of prospects. He’s just not a major league pitcher. Not on this team. Not on any team.

  280. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 18th, 2009 at 2:54 pm

    Michael Kay is going to ask Brian Cashman when he comes on next. Good luck with that, Kay

  281. Bret the Hitman December 18th, 2009 at 2:54 pm

    five iron from fenway
    December 18th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
    Bret – Again I am not looking for the Yankees to get a return to help the current team substantially. Just a bench player or even better a low to mid level high upside SS prospect (I can always dream).

    I understand. I’m just suggesting that the Yankees are targetting a starter via trade and would need Melky in that package.

    There is some financial relief in getting a cost-effective starter too, perhaps more monetary benefit than the Yankees would get by moving Swisher’s contract.

  282. DaSaint007 December 18th, 2009 at 2:55 pm

    I don’t care if Mo is 100 and he’s in a powerchair. If he’s able to get 40+ saves, I pay him his $15 mil.

  283. Chip December 18th, 2009 at 2:55 pm

    If we can get Holliday at 5/75 or about a 15mill AAV, how could we pass that up? Trading a Swisher and/or Melky next off season offsets half this total…for a player in his prime to man LF for the next half decade???

    This is the same GM who passed on Carlos Beltran for financial reasons.

  284. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 2:55 pm

    Nick-
    Its interesting to me as well that so many of our fellow posters are choosing to focus on the minutae, while at the same time fail to see the ELEPHANT in the room. No ?

    For me, dont sweat the small stuff. Comprendo ?

  285. Nick in SF December 18th, 2009 at 2:55 pm

    I’ll stick at 85%. Or 86%? The uncertainty makes the speculation more fun.

  286. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 18th, 2009 at 2:56 pm

    “I don’t care if Mo is 100 and he’s in a powerchair. If he’s able to get 40+ saves, I pay him his $15 mil”
    ————————————————-
    don’t know if they would allow powerchairs on the pitcher’s mound

  287. no.27 December 18th, 2009 at 2:57 pm

    “you trim the fat with jeter mostly and rivera a little since he’ll be on the wrong side of 40 once his new contract begins..if baseball is a business then its dumb business paying a 38 – 40 year old SS 20 million a year and a reliever who is god like but is over 40 – 15 million a year for 3 more years…”

    I really doubt Jeter and Mariano are taking significant pay cuts. The Yankees have to bring them back and everyone knows it. I bet Jeter gets his $20 and Mariano gets his $15, or very close to it.

  288. Erin December 18th, 2009 at 2:58 pm

    vinny-b (NJ and Granderson – thank you Cashman!)
    December 18th, 2009 at 2:56 pm
    “I don’t care if Mo is 100 and he’s in a powerchair. If he’s able to get 40+ saves, I pay him his $15 mil”
    ————————————————-
    don’t know if they would allow powerchairs on the pitcher’s mound

    **********************
    they’d probably make an exception for Mo ;)

  289. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 2:58 pm

    Nick-
    no on the Virgina reference. Not me.

  290. DaSaint007 December 18th, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    Vinny,

    They’ll build an elevator under the mound if they have to if that’s what it takes. LOL!

  291. DaSaint007 December 18th, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    Vinny,

    They’ll build an elevator under the mound if they have to if that’s what it takes. LOL!

  292. Lost in Holliday-in December 18th, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    Boras may finally be ready to concede his demands at this point. Which is exactly what Cash has expected all along. I have to say that Cash is reading this years market quite well.

    It’s only a matter of time before what doesn’t come out in the wash comes out in the rinse.

    Trivia:

    Can anyone tell me who Matt Holliday’s idle was growing up?

  293. SJ44 December 18th, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    Vinny,

    That too!

    In September, I said that Matsui will end up in Anaheim next year.

    I got roasted by people on here! LOL

    Everybody with the Yankees LOVES Hideki Matsui. Great guy on and off the field.

    EVERYBODY with the Yankees felt Anaheim would be where he would be playing in 2010.

    Why?

    They knew he wasn’t going to play in NY for 4-5 million a year, plus incentives. Where they slotted their value for a DH.

    They are VERY concerned about his knees. Its a tribute to the training staff and Hideki he held up last year.

    Better weather will help his knees and the Yankees felt Anaheim would pay him since they had a lot of payroll coming off the roster.

    Its the business of baseball. Its not always pretty and you always want to keep everybody.

    Unfortunately, you can’t keep everybody and, IMO, Nick Johnson at 5 million, especially after getting Granderson, is a better value than Hideki at 6.5 million.

  294. 86w183 December 18th, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    If they make a Holliday move you have to believe they will move a contract or two. Swisher is obviously a prime candidate. Melky saves you a lot less. Marte or Igawa could also free up some Cash. I still shake my head when I think of the Yanks keeping him after San Diego put in a claim.

    You don’t make room for a new guy by planning pay cuts for the greatest shortstop in team history and the greatest closer ever anywhere.

    I would hit Granderson 5th Vs RHP and Posada against LHP unless there’s a Holliday to utilize.

    Also sorta like the idea of hitting Granderson, Alex and Teixiera in that order

  295. PittsburghYankeeFan December 18th, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    You can structure a contract so it is backloaded, but how is the AAV lower?

    Maybe a prorated signing bonus with a lower base salary in years 1 and 2? So the actual paid salary is the same across the contract?

    Is that the idea, SJ?

  296. DaSaint007 December 18th, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    Something to keep in mind: We now have 2 backups for 1B.

  297. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 18th, 2009 at 3:00 pm

    “They’ll build an elevator under the mound if they have to if that’s what it takes. LOL”
    ———————————————-
    falling down laughing : )

  298. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 3:00 pm

    Nick-
    Our friend is trying to take the guess work out of it for us.

    He has been leaving breadcrumbs along for everyone to see.

  299. PittsburghYankeeFan December 18th, 2009 at 3:00 pm

    Lost in Halliday-In

    Paul O Neill?

  300. Frank December 18th, 2009 at 3:01 pm

    “If we can get Holliday at 5/75 or about a 15mill AAV”

    You do it twice. Problem is, it appears he was offered better than that already and refused it. Perhaps more important than that is that Boras would sooner eat his hands than allow the #1 free agent on the market sign at an AAV less than Lackey.

  301. Wave Your Hat December 18th, 2009 at 3:01 pm

    We may believe Mauer goes back to the Twins, but it is far from a done deal. The Yanks can’t allow themselves to be out of that market if it develops.

    Signing Holliday, the Yanks budget goes significantly higher than last year’s.

    With Holliday, there are too many long term, high cost contracts signed too close together. It increases the chance something goes wrong down the road and the Yanks’ flexibility to fix the problem will be reduced.

    The Yanks don’t have to sign Holliday, the way they had to sign Teixeira last year.

    Holliday is going to be too costly this year. People are welcome to daydream, of course, but it is just a daydream.

  302. Bret the Hitman December 18th, 2009 at 3:01 pm

    Lost in Holliday,

    Well, now that Damon’s cover is blown and his market caved and Johnson is the DH (Damon is not equipped to be an everyday LF), Boras can quit the bluffing with Damon and the Yanks and get down to business with Holliday and the Yanks.

    It’s about time.

  303. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 18th, 2009 at 3:01 pm

    “Can anyone tell me who Matt Holliday’s idle was growing up?”
    ————————————–
    mattingly ?

  304. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 3:01 pm

    Lost-

    Mickey Mantle

  305. GreenBeret7 December 18th, 2009 at 3:01 pm

    Bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
    December 18th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
    GreenBeret7
    December 18th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
    Betsy -high on pie
    December 18th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
    GB, how are you feeling today?
    I can’t see it either..
    ————————————————————
    Doing fine, Betsy. Just a little tired right now. Thank you. Very kind of you to ask.
    =====

    GB7,

    Don’t think I’ve had the chance to wish you the best when we have both have been online, so best wishes on your recovery.

    Always glad when I scroll back to see you’ve been in here causing havoc.

    Don’t know if you’re aware of something called medical qigong – may want to ask your Drs about it or do some investigating.

    ————————————————————

    Thanks for the kind words and thoughts, Bodh.

    These doctors aren’t much into oriental treatments. If they can’t rip it out or medicate it, they’ll deny that it exists.

  306. Simon December 18th, 2009 at 3:02 pm

    Chad, I hate to say it but you are absolutely wrong on this point.
    Granderson’s HRs alone do not make him good for that role. In that role you need someone who is consistent and does what he needs to do in the big situations: getting a base hit, hitting a sac fly, taking the walk if the pitcher gives it to him. Granderson’s strike out potential would be catastrophic in this role (see: Cano, Robinson).
    Johnson is going to slow things down tremendously whether he hits 2 or 5. The fact is, his numbers with RISP, runners on third with less than 2 out, and various other situations are absolutely phenomenal.
    Nick Johnson hits fifth. Robinson Cano has the most to gain from hitting in front of Tex and Arod…so either him or Granderson hits second. I like Granderson sixth or ninth. Let’s see what Girardi does…

  307. no.27 December 18th, 2009 at 3:02 pm

    Matsui signed a 1 year $6 million contract with the Angels.

  308. Nick in SF December 18th, 2009 at 3:03 pm

    Ok, 89.5%. :)

    Gotta go for now, but I’ll be listening to the wind.

  309. Phil December 18th, 2009 at 3:03 pm

    Lost in Holliday

    Don Matttingly or Paulie.

  310. SJ44 December 18th, 2009 at 3:04 pm

    They didn’t pass on Carlos Beltran for money reasons.

    They passed on Carlos Beltran because George only allocated money for one big guy that off-season and George wanted it to be Randy Johnson.

  311. PittsburghYankeeFan December 18th, 2009 at 3:04 pm

    MTU

    Correct. Just like Mattingly was Tex’s idol.

  312. Simon December 18th, 2009 at 3:04 pm

    Nick Johnson’s numbers with men on base are as impressive as his OBP.

  313. DaSaint007 December 18th, 2009 at 3:04 pm

    Hey GB, my wife is an MD, and I’d be happy to send her over to keep your quacks on point if necessary. I just need you to promise to behave! :-)

  314. NYY626 December 18th, 2009 at 3:06 pm

    Erica – always OPPC – Bring Back Johnny!!!!
    December 18th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
    I think its too late for a letter
    ____________________________________________________________
    I’m sorry Erica :(

    I’m just having a hard time understanding Damon right now. Why does he want to leave the world champs, his friends and NY and for an extra million or two?

  315. S.o.S. December 18th, 2009 at 3:07 pm

    Nick,
    Everyone knows theres a Santa. The question to ask is Santa working for the sox? How else can you explain the highway robery deals they keep landing on. And most of all, why would his ELF be playing 2nd basw for thme if he wasnt?

  316. Lost in Holliday-in December 18th, 2009 at 3:07 pm

    Matt Holliday’s Idol: Cal Ripken jr.

    I’m driving down to Miami shortly..

    I would not be surprised if news starts breaking/leaking by the time I get there. Although, I think some answers are more likely to come out by the weekend.

  317. Wave Your Hat December 18th, 2009 at 3:07 pm

    CB-

    I was scrolling back through the comments from a couple of nights ago and I saw you remembered my little Casablanca homage from before the Teixeira signing.

    Thanks for the mention!

  318. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 18th, 2009 at 3:08 pm

    Cashman really talking up Nova

  319. Bret the Hitman December 18th, 2009 at 3:08 pm

    86w183
    December 18th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
    If they make a Holliday move you have to believe they will move a contract or two. Swisher is obviously a prime candidate. Melky saves you a lot less. Marte or Igawa could also free up some Cash.

    If the Yankees can use Melky in a package for a cost-effective starting pitcher (I’m talking about a long-term solution in the rotation) it probably saves more money than moving Swisher’s contract.

    Melky profiles in a package that includes Joba/Hughes and/or Montero.

  320. S.o.S. December 18th, 2009 at 3:08 pm

    Nick,
    One more thing. I think the tooth fairy is also anti yankee. Explain to me how Igawa hasnt gotten paid for those teeth yet?

  321. crawdaddy December 18th, 2009 at 3:09 pm

    My man Cashmans says it’s not official with Nick right now.

  322. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 18th, 2009 at 3:09 pm

    Lost-in-Holliday: thank you for the update, bro

  323. Degan747 December 18th, 2009 at 3:09 pm

    “Can anyone tell me who Matt Holliday’s idle was growing up?”

    Cal Ripken Jr.

  324. Degan747 December 18th, 2009 at 3:10 pm

    Damn, you beat me to it.

  325. L to the 2nd December 18th, 2009 at 3:11 pm

    Lost:

    Cal Ripken Jr.? That settles it then!

    Must be the O’s :wink:

  326. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 3:11 pm

    Nick-
    celebration soon. I think ? Me too. Gotta take the dogs to the vet. Actually Nick I am moving to 99% as of now.

    “It is only a matter of time before what doesn’t come out in the wash comes out in the rinse”.

    Translation-

    It’s only a matter of time before this thing gets done. Not if but WHEN. Some details stillneed to be “cleaned” up later.
    Thats my interpetation.
    Boras has relented on his demands and the details just need to be worked out. AWESOME !!!!.

    Wonder what the hangup might have been. Maybe he wanted guaranteed AAV and has now agreed to accept a backloaded contract. Dynamite.

  327. Betsy -high on pie December 18th, 2009 at 3:12 pm

    I have zero interest in trading Swisher…..not because of his personality (the clubhouse would be fine without him), but because he’s a good player (and ok, in part because of his personality….but not that big of a part).

    What I love about what the Yankees are doing now is that they aren’t handing out bad contracts, even to their own players…..and at some point players, agents and other teams are going to have to realize that they can’t expect the Yanks to cave in on $$$ (re: players and free agency) or $$$ and players (teams – in terms of trades).

    They are going to be sorely tested, however, with Mo and Jeter.

    Chip, that was George who wanted Randy Johnson; Cash wanted Beltran. Ugh. I’m the one who posted about Cash on with Kay and I missed the first ten minutes. What did I miss?

  328. Bret the Hitman December 18th, 2009 at 3:13 pm

    Why is Peter Gammons so mad at Josh Johnson’s agent?

    memo to Josh Johnson:get an agent who won’t embarress you for his pitiable self-promotion

  329. DaSaint007 December 18th, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    There is a budget, and Cash has to stick to it:

    “There are limits nonetheless”.

  330. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 18th, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    michael kay. oh my…

  331. sab December 18th, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    please please let nick johnson’s physical show that he has a rare from of DLitis which causes him to log significant pavano time on the DL and the contract is voided…

    make THAT happen cash!!!

  332. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 18th, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    wow. On Michael Kay show right now…

  333. SJ44 December 18th, 2009 at 3:15 pm

    Matsui got 6.5 from the Angels and Nick Johnson got 5 from the yankees.

    Better all around hitter and 5 years younger for 1.5 million less.

    If you add in the 5.5 million Granderson makes next year, Johnson and Granderson make 10.5 million combined in 2010.

    Damon and Matsui made 26 million total last year.

    That’s more than double the money for what may be similar (or close to) production.

    Wave,

    There isn’t a single person in the game who believes Joe Mauer will ever hit free agency.

    If he did, the Yankees would never pass on him for budgetary reasons. He’s a “break the budget” guy if he hits the open market.

    That doesn’t mean they will sign Matt Holliday.

    All I’m saying is, they aren’t setting their sites on Joe Mauer (unlike other guys they are eyeing in the 2010 FA class) because they, like the rest of baseball, believes he will sign with the Twins.

    Pittsburgh,

    They calculate AAV on an annual basis.

    Just for the sake of discussion (and nothing more), let’s say you can do a Holliday deal for 5 years/85 million.

    That’s an AAV of 17 million.

    If it was a straight 17 million AAV, the Yankees would pass.

    If the deal was structured as follows (my example, NOT what’s happening!)….

    2010: 11 million
    2011: 14 million
    2012: 16 million + 4 million dollar signing bonus.
    2013: 16 million + 4 million dollar signing bonus.
    2014: 20 million

    That kind of structure, if proposed to the Yankees? Gives Cash something to take to Hal to see if the framework is there to do a deal.

  334. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 3:15 pm

    LOst-
    Have a safe trip and thanks for providing the breadcrumbs all along. I chose to believe in them a while back and they certainly helped making drawing conclusions a lot easier.

    Dont know if I could have put the whole puzzle together myself.

  335. GreenBeret7 December 18th, 2009 at 3:15 pm

    Lost in Holliday-in
    December 18th, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    Trivia:

    Can anyone tell me who Matt Holliday’s ***idle*** was growing up?

    ————————————————————

    About 1800 RPMs. Holliday had a small Japanese car.

  336. ed - slacking in class now December 18th, 2009 at 3:15 pm

    vinny b;

    who is on Kay show?

  337. Betsy -high on pie December 18th, 2009 at 3:16 pm

    Vinny-b, what did Cash say about Nova? I guess Kay started off with minor league talk? LOL I loved his non-answer to Kay about Holliday (Kay said he had no idea what Cash said)

  338. S.o.S. December 18th, 2009 at 3:16 pm

    Must be the O’s

    =======

    Seriously? What a freakin waste.

  339. ed - slacking in class now December 18th, 2009 at 3:16 pm

    “Can anyone tell me who Matt Holliday’s ***idle*** was growing up?”

    its spell IDOL.

  340. DaSaint007 December 18th, 2009 at 3:17 pm

    No Holliday.
    No Jeter extension.
    No Rivera extension.

    Don’t worry. Be happy.

  341. SJ44 December 18th, 2009 at 3:17 pm

    Matt Sosnick is Josh Johnson’s agent and he is a good agent.

    If Pete doesn’t like him, its probably because Matt doesn’t suck up to him.

  342. 86w183 December 18th, 2009 at 3:17 pm

    I’d much rather move Gardner than Melky.

    I still expect the Yanks would like to try and find a more proven No.4 starter even though it raises issues for Joba and Hughes.

    Never a dull moment

  343. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 3:17 pm

    Cal Ripken ?
    Not mickey mantle form his home state and a Yankee.

    most curious taste for a future Yankee.

    Well. at least Ripken was a great ballplayer.

  344. Erin December 18th, 2009 at 3:18 pm

    GreenBeret7
    December 18th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
    Lost in Holliday-in
    December 18th, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    Trivia:

    Can anyone tell me who Matt Holliday’s ***idle*** was growing up?

    ————————————————————

    About 1800 RPMs. Holliday had a small Japanese car.

    ************************
    LOL

    How much longer ’til you’re out of the hospital, GB?

  345. Bret the Hitman December 18th, 2009 at 3:18 pm

    Wonder what the hangup might have been.

    —-

    Boras needed cover for Damon. Other teams were waiting for Holliday to sign with the Yankees which in effect removes the Yankees from Damon’s market and damages his leverage. So Boras had to fake like Damon and Yanks were in serious talks in order to bait other bidders for Damon. The Yankees played along because they wanted Damon off the market so the Holliday stuff could get finalized.

  346. sab December 18th, 2009 at 3:18 pm

    speaking about bad contracts – what the heck is seattle thinking!?!?

    trading away your minor league studs for 1 year of cliff lee and now signing a clubhouse loonie which considerably slashes your amount of available money even further? and on top of the insulting felix hernandez with a 5 year 60 million contract – wow talk about a new GM being in over his head…

  347. Betsy -high on pie December 18th, 2009 at 3:18 pm

    Vinny, what were you “wowing” about?

  348. SJ44 December 18th, 2009 at 3:19 pm

    He didn’t say no Holliday. He danced around the question.

    He gave the same rap he’s beeing giving about limited money to spend but, specifically said he wouldn’t comment on Holliday or any particular player.

  349. Bret the Hitman December 18th, 2009 at 3:20 pm

    MTU,

    And Nick Johnson at DH served the same purpose of the Yankees parting with Damon. Other teams interested in Damon were surely waiting for Damon and the Yankees to separate.

    So there you have it.

    The hold up to Holliday was Damon.

  350. Frank December 18th, 2009 at 3:20 pm

    “2010: 11 million
    2011: 14 million
    2012: 16 million + 4 million dollar signing bonus.
    2013: 16 million + 4 million dollar signing bonus.
    2014: 20 million”

    So in this case, he’s still $17M for purposes of determining luxury tax in 2010, but only $11M in actual dollars. This works because it keeps them at or around $200M in actual dollars paid in ’10????

  351. S.o.S. December 18th, 2009 at 3:20 pm

    About 1800 RPMs. Holliday had a small Japanese car.

    =======
    GB7,
    Hmmm? Let me guess, you have the Asian book of comedy out. First the treatment? Now the cars? Whats next in your book? Driving skills? Must be feeling better.

  352. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 18th, 2009 at 3:20 pm

    Michael Kay: “There is this little underbelly where Yankee fans talk. This underbelly where yankee fans network and discuss possible trades etc. In this underbelly yankee fans are claiming the yankees are trying to sign Matt Holliday. They state this, as if it fact and not an opinion.” Are you interested in Matt Holliday?”

    Brian Cashman: “I think anyones interested in Matt Holliday.” Followed by very long answer

  353. Betsy -high on pie December 18th, 2009 at 3:20 pm

    I missed the part about Damon – my radio is very static-y. What did Cash say? Thanks!

  354. Wave Your Hat December 18th, 2009 at 3:21 pm

    SJ44-

    If the Yanks sign Holliday this year, there’s no $20+MM lying around to go for Joe Mauer or anybody else in 2011. I’m not saying Mauer becomes a free agent, I’m saying you don’t lock yourself out of the possibility for Holliday. Whether or not the Yanks think Mauer will end up with the Twins, they aren’t locking themselves out of 2011 for Holliday, IMO.

    I frankly don’t even know if we are disagreeing about Holliday. You were opposed to signing him for a long time.

  355. Betsy -high on pie December 18th, 2009 at 3:22 pm

    Yep, that was hilarious…..that’s why Kay said he had no idea what Cash said. I love Cash – he’d be a good spy.

  356. Bret the Hitman December 18th, 2009 at 3:22 pm

    SJ44
    December 18th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
    Matt Sosnick is Josh Johnson’s agent and he is a good agent.
    If Pete doesn’t like him, its probably because Matt doesn’t suck up to him.

    To me it sounds like Peter Gammons is unhappy because the negotiations are incomplete and Josh Johnson is not locked up by the Marlins.

    To me it sounds like Peter Gammons favors a speedy resolution to JJ’s extension negotiations.

    To me, Peter Gammons sounds petty.

    Like he’s panicking…

  357. NYYROC December 18th, 2009 at 3:22 pm

    Listening to Cashman on Kay show. He says if the NYY do get another SP Joba, Hughes, Ace etc. would compete for 1 spot in the rotation. He knows best but I find it hard to believe that 2 guys (Joba & PH) who have been so highly thought of as potential SP would keep getting bounced to BP. If the other SP was a Doc or Lackey etc. I could understand, but more than likely no one the NYY get will be appreciably better than Joba or PH. Even Sheets is a question mark due to his injuries and the fact he hasn’t pitched in over a year. If Joba or PH were with the Phillies, Jays or anywhere else they’d already be in the rotation and be farther along in the careers, more capable of helping their team. I don’t understand the reluctance to start 2010 with them both in the rotation because they aren’t locked into that decision. If it’s June and they aren’t getting the job done, the same type of pitcher they can get now will still be avaiable. It’s not 2008, they both have more ML experience and have shown they can get ML hitters out. Just give them a shot.

  358. sab December 18th, 2009 at 3:23 pm

    Betsy -high on pie
    December 18th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
    I missed the part about Damon – my radio is very static-y. What did Cash say? Thanks!
    ———————————————————–
    Have you ever watched the Charlie Brown cartoons on TV? If yes do you remember the noise the teachers on that cartoon make when speaking (whah whah whah whah) – thats what cashman said..

  359. dee December 18th, 2009 at 3:23 pm

    The only thing I don’t get is that Cash kept on saying yesterday that they upgraded CF with Granderson. Why would they just move the problem then over to LF. That’s why I think the Yankees are going to get a legitimate Left Fielder either through Holliday or trade.

  360. Chip December 18th, 2009 at 3:23 pm

    Interesting turn on Matsui.

    According to Cash Matsui’s agent called and said, “We have an offer in the 7 mil range, want to give you a chance to match but we need an answer now.” and Cashman wasn’t going to make that choice on the spur of the moment so they took the other offer.

  361. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 18th, 2009 at 3:23 pm

    “Vinny, what were you “wowing” about?”
    ——————————————

    just posted. Michael Kay definitely reads/checks this blog. And at Brian Cashman’s long response

  362. S.o.S. December 18th, 2009 at 3:23 pm

    “Can anyone tell me who Matt Holliday’s ***idle*** was growing up?”

    its spell IDOL.

    ========

    That confirms it. GB’S Back. BTW, im just as bad as gb in spelling but shouldnt there be an e d in end of spell ED?

  363. BJK December 18th, 2009 at 3:23 pm

    SJ44-

    Can you explain how signing bonuses work? Do they not count against yearly payroll?

    Are there limits? What’s to prevent a 10 million dollar contract with a 9 or 12 million dollar bonus?

  364. DaSaint007 December 18th, 2009 at 3:24 pm

    Cashman: “Defense and pitching is the name of the game”.

    He wants players that are ‘as good’, flexible, and are affordable long term.

  365. sab December 18th, 2009 at 3:24 pm

    SJ44-

    If the Yanks sign Holliday this year, there’s no $20+MM lying around to go for Joe Mauer or anybody else in 2011. I’m not saying Mauer becomes a free agent, I’m saying you don’t lock yourself out of the possibility for Holliday. Whether or not the Yanks think Mauer will end up with the Twins, they aren’t locking themselves out of 2011 for Holliday, IMO.

    I frankly don’t even know if we are disagreeing about Holliday. You were opposed to signing him for a long time.

    ———————————————————-

    but if they sign mauer what happens to all the stud catchers they have coming up in the minors – god forbid they trade any of those Grade A prospects!!!

  366. Bret the Hitman December 18th, 2009 at 3:25 pm

    86w183
    December 18th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
    I’d much rather move Gardner than Melky.
    I still expect the Yanks would like to try and find a more proven No.4 starter even though it raises issues for Joba and Hughes.
    Never a dull moment

    If we’re pushing Joba or Phil down the depth chart, I want something better than a 4th starter, someone clearly better than Joba and Phil with zero major questions about health, character or AL East capability.

  367. Borat December 18th, 2009 at 3:25 pm

    I’d rather have Johnny Damon than Nick Johnson, but I do like Nick Johnson, don’t get me wrong…he’s just not Johnny Damon.

    Johnny Damon is a game changer. You can look at all the stats you want and tell me “more athletic, sucks in LF” blah blah blah.

    If he goes to Seattle, he’s going to improve Seattle significantly.

    This isn’t Giambi we’re talking about.

    I will settle for Nick Johnson, but, that’s what it is, settling.

  368. Please don't jump December 18th, 2009 at 3:25 pm

    I think we need to get back to the nickname Phil Phranchise.

  369. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 3:27 pm

    Brett-
    I believe there might have been more than 1 holdup as you say but IMO that certainly was key item.

    The more important ones IMO were :

    Were the Yankees fully committed to the idea ? They are now.

    How do we structure a deal so we can actually get down to
    specific negotiations, i.e. will your client accept a backloaded offer in principle or are you insisting on a steady guaranteed AAV /

    As we heard a little while ago it appears boras has relented on that issue, or one like that.

    I dont think the total bid was an issue I always expected the Yankees to match the Cardinals or better them but they way they going to be able to structure the deal was an impediment for a while.

    That’s my take Brett.

  370. GreenBeret7 December 18th, 2009 at 3:27 pm

    Erin
    December 18th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
    GreenBeret7
    December 18th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
    Lost in Holliday-in
    December 18th, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    Trivia:

    Can anyone tell me who Matt Holliday’s ***idle*** was growing up?

    ————————————————————

    About 1800 RPMs. Holliday had a small Japanese car.

    ************************
    LOL

    How much longer ’til you’re out of the hospital, GB?

    ————————————————————

    I’m hoping to be out by this weekend and go to Ft. Myers, FL. Sorry, about the bad joke. I just saw my nurse, Miss Karloff, and she scared it of me.

  371. Paco Dooley December 18th, 2009 at 3:28 pm

    “I’m just having a hard time understanding Damon right now. Why does he want to leave the world champs, his friends and NY and for an extra million or two?”

    I’ll give you a hint – re-read your sentence and focus on the last four words.

  372. SJ44 December 18th, 2009 at 3:28 pm

    Wave,

    I don’t think we are in much disagreement.

    I know there are certain guys that “budget” isn’t a barrier to get a deal done.

    I honestly don’t know if Matt Holliday is that guy.

    I do know they have talked to Scott quite a bit about him.

    I think, if a deal was done in a way favorable to their (the Yankees) issues, they would aggressively go after him.

    If it can’t, they will pass and not lose any sleep over it.

    If Joe Mauer ever hit free agency, they wouldn’t refrain from making a run at him, regardless of their budget.

    I believe out of all the guys who will be free agents next year, they are in love with 3 guys:

    Derek Jeter
    Mariano Rivera
    Cliff Lee.

    I’m not counting Mauer because I don’t think he will be a FA.

    The above 3 guys I believe they will do whatever it takes to retain/acquire.

    Everybody else will be examined on a case by case basis.

  373. crawdaddy December 18th, 2009 at 3:28 pm

    Cashman can talk your head off without giving you much.

  374. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 3:29 pm

    Next up :

    Ben Sheets

    Aroldis chapman.

    no hurry though.

  375. blake December 18th, 2009 at 3:30 pm

    So Kay called us an underbelly I guess.

  376. Jerkface December 18th, 2009 at 3:30 pm

    Sab – You have no idea what you are talking about. Jack Z is proving to be very much the equal of the best GMs in the game. He smelled blood in the water of the AL West and is going for it. King Felix would only sign an extension if they showed they would contend, and he traded no one of great value for one of the best pitchers in the game. They still have Triunfel.

    “right-hander Phillippe Aumont, outfielder Tyson Gillies and right-hander Juan Ramirez.”

    Aumont has a degenerative hip condition and the Mariners valued him as a reliever, albeit a good one, going forward. Expendable.

    Additionally, Milton Bradley is a very good player, especially at DH, and if you think he is a clubhouse cancer you should look into Carlos Silva.

    Not only is Carlos Silva an ACTUAL clubhouse cancer (Bradley is never troubled by teammates, its others that raise his anger), but he is also terrible.

    Bradley is good at baseball. Silva is not. Silva threatened to choke out Ichiro. Bradley threw a bottle of water into the ground, argued with an umpire that called him a slur, and wanted to confront announcers who compared his troubles to drug addiction and then said he was worse than said drug addict.

    Get a clue.

  377. Erin December 18th, 2009 at 3:30 pm

    GreenBeret7
    December 18th, 2009 at 3:27 pm

    I’m hoping to be out by this weekend and go to Ft. Myers, FL. Sorry, about the bad joke. I just saw my nurse, Miss Karloff, and she scared it of me.

    **************
    That’s good, I hope you do get out this weekend!

    What will the nurses do without you? ;)

  378. vb03 December 18th, 2009 at 3:32 pm

    Borat December 18th, 2009 at 3:25 pm

    “I will settle for Nick Johnson, but, that’s what it is, settling.”

    ———————-

    Player A: .282/.365/.489/.854
    Player B: .290/.428/.520/.948

    Take a guess which is which, and come back to us about “settling”.

  379. GreenBeret7 December 18th, 2009 at 3:34 pm

    Erin
    December 18th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
    GreenBeret7
    December 18th, 2009 at 3:27 pm

    I’m hoping to be out by this weekend and go to Ft. Myers, FL. Sorry, about the bad joke. I just saw my nurse, Miss Karloff, and she scared it of me.

    **************
    That’s good, I hope you do get out this weekend!

    What will the nurses do without you?

    ————————————————————

    Probably get their sanity back and catch their collective breaths…except for Miss Karloff. She hasn’t been alive for 30 years.

  380. blake December 18th, 2009 at 3:34 pm

    You can’t build your plans around players that may become available. I would be shocked if mauer or pujols either one become free agents. I think Mauer gives the twins a discount to stay in his home state and the cards throw what amounts to a blank check at pujols.

  381. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 3:35 pm

    Who is Lost ?

    “an anonymous drone”

    Where is Lost ?

    Tampa ?

    Who is lost ?

    Somebody who works for the Yankee org in Tampa as an “anonymous drone”. What is a drone ? It is a worker bee.

    I always wanted to be a fly on the wall but we had our “bee” instead. Busily relaying info. on what they were hearing.
    A leak. Fantastic. Thank you who ever you are.
    .

  382. Borat December 18th, 2009 at 3:35 pm

    dont have to be a rocket scientist to know who player A and player B are. Like I said about stats, blah blah blah. Stats are useful, but not 100% of the time.

    Why don’t you throw up DL trips for both and then get back to me?

  383. Bret the Hitman December 18th, 2009 at 3:36 pm

    MTU,

    I agree. Money slows down all negotiations.

    But I just want to add, from the Yankees perspective, they needed to at least entertain Boras on the idea of Damon returning because they needed him as a theoretical option, so the talks helped give the Yankees a soft smokescreen for their lust for Holliday. You never want to admit exactly what you want from the start…you gotta keep mentioning all your options.

    So there you have it.

    Boras was protecting Damon and the Yankees were leveraging on Holliday but both Boras specifically wanted a team to come out for Damon first and the Yankees wanted a speedy resolution with Damon as well, so they could concentrate on Holliday with Boras. The bonus of getting NJ (in addition to his talent of course) is that he squeezes out Damon and ends the Boras bluff of the Yanks being players for Damon.

    They never were.

  384. CB December 18th, 2009 at 3:36 pm

    “Michael Kay: “There is this little underbelly where Yankee fans talk. This underbelly where yankee fans network and discuss possible trades etc. In this underbelly yankee fans are claiming the yankees are trying to sign Matt Holliday. They state this, as if it fact and not an opinion.” Are you interested in Matt Holliday?””

    Hmmm. I wonder what web site Kay might have been perusing?

    Nick – do you not have any Lohud “underbelly” comments?

  385. dee December 18th, 2009 at 3:38 pm

    “Michael Kay: “There is this little underbelly where Yankee fans talk. This underbelly where yankee fans network and discuss possible trades etc. In this underbelly yankee fans are claiming the yankees are trying to sign Matt Holliday. They state this, as if it fact and not an opinion.” Are you interested in Matt Holliday?””

    What was Cash’s response?

  386. L to the 2nd December 18th, 2009 at 3:38 pm

    Are we a “Soft White Underbelly”?

  387. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 3:40 pm

    Brett-
    Ok. I can accept that interpretation. I think it is fairly close. I am not sure about the totality of it though.

    What if Johnny had accepted the lowered figure ? Uh oh.

    Or, did they really want him at THEIR price.

    Maybe Lost can fill us in on that one someday.

    I gotta leave soon. Takin the dogs to the Vet.

    This has been a hell of a lot of fun. And it aint over yet.

  388. Chip December 18th, 2009 at 3:41 pm

    Here’s my opinion on Matt Holliday (for what it’s worth)

    Very good player
    Best Free Agent position player available this season

    But….

    I think because this free agent class is so weak we are tending to overvalue him a bit. He just looks so much better than the second best guy on the list that we tend to look at him as a “must have” item – which he’s not.

    He’s a complimentary player – very much in the JD Drew mold – lots of skills, but I wouldn’t call him a game changer. He’s the guy you bring in when you have another star in the lineup to carry the load.

    Yes, he had a terrific run as “the man” in Colorado, but there, with that park, the guys around him were very strong offensive producers.

    If you put Holliday in last year’s free agent class or next years, I think he would probably look less shiny than he does this year.

  389. Betsy -high on pie December 18th, 2009 at 3:41 pm

    Cliff Lee is going to cost over $18 million a year –probably more. That hurts. I also wonder at what point Joba and Phil are going to be given the chance to prove themselves (well, Joba did have this past year). If they sign Lee, they’ll have to let Andy go if they want Joba and Phil both in the rotation.

    Bret, that only makes sense if the Yankees are in on Holliday all the way…..and we don’t know that yet.

  390. Ninja Burglar December 18th, 2009 at 3:42 pm

    My cat has a soft white underbelly, but I’m not sure of his take on the Matt Holliday situation.

  391. MTU December 18th, 2009 at 3:42 pm

    CB-
    No CB.I dont believe he has. None that you haven’t seen, or viewed so to speak.(wink, wink). I dont know how to use those funny yellow things.

  392. no.27 December 18th, 2009 at 3:42 pm

    “He wants players that are ‘as good’, flexible, and are affordable long term.”

    and nick johnson

  393. Paco Dooley December 18th, 2009 at 3:43 pm

    “Michael Kay: “There is this little underbelly where Yankee fans talk. This underbelly where yankee fans network and discuss possible trades etc. In this underbelly yankee fans are claiming the yankees are trying to sign Matt Holliday. They state this, as if it fact and not an opinion.” Are you interested in Matt Holliday?””

    This is not the only discussion board with Yankees fans. What about NYYfans? I’m sure there are others, and I suspect that Holliday is a topic everywhere.

  394. sab December 18th, 2009 at 3:43 pm

    jerkface –

    a raving lunatic – regardless of where or whom his rage is addressed towards is a trouble making cancer in the clubhouse – but why take my word for it – why not read the hundreds of people that actually know more about it than me (our old friend peter A for one) – bradley has been on what 7 teams the last 8 years – THATS a mark of a good guy?

    and again from what i’ve read just about everyone wants to choke ichiro and his primadonna attitude so what silva allegedly did just about everyone else on that team probably wanted to do it –

    so i guess only you know about aumontes injury? because a degenerative hip condition means it will get worse with time to a point that it will have to be replaced – which means in 3 years he will be useless – so why trade for a player like that when amaro probably could have traded him to the angels for something better..

    finally when you offer arguably the best pitcher in baseball a 5 year 60 million contract, and are serious, – you are either really stupid or are pi**ing that pitcher off so bad that you just don’t care to keep him

    nice name by the way….

  395. Bret the Hitman December 18th, 2009 at 3:43 pm

    MTU
    December 18th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
    Brett-
    Ok. I can accept that interpretation. I think it is fairly close. I am not sure about the totality of it though.
    What if Johnny had accepted the lowered figure ? Uh oh.
    Or, did they really want him at THEIR price.
    Maybe Lost can fill us in on that one someday.
    I gotta leave soon. Takin the dogs to the Vet.
    This has been a hell of a lot of fun. And it aint over yet.

    There was no offer to accept, neither high nor low.

  396. L to the 2nd December 18th, 2009 at 3:44 pm

    If Damon was always sticking to the ridiculous $13m/per demand, then yes, the NYY were never players for him.

  397. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 18th, 2009 at 3:44 pm

    “So Kay called us an underbelly I guess”
    ——————————————
    Blake: yup. Kay was specifically referring to this site

  398. Erin December 18th, 2009 at 3:44 pm

    no.27
    December 18th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
    “He wants players that are ‘as good’, flexible, and are affordable long term.”

    and nick johnson

    ******************
    LOL

  399. christina25 December 18th, 2009 at 3:45 pm

    Heyman came to SPORTS ILLUSTRATED in July 2006 after 16 years at Newsday, where he served as Yankees beat writer, baseball columnist and general sports columnist.

    Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....z0a4j94bEK
    Get a free NFL Team Jacket and Tee with SI Subscription

    Lost on Holliday is actually Heyman

  400. Chip December 18th, 2009 at 3:45 pm

    You can’t build your plans around players that may become available. I would be shocked if mauer or pujols either one become free agents. I think Mauer gives the twins a discount to stay in his home state and the cards throw what amounts to a blank check at pujols.

    Blake, that’s true but I think that when Cashman looks at Holliday he doesn’t see a game changer. He sees the best of a pretty awful free agent class and figures that next year similar players will be available either as free agents or via trade and because the market should be better next year the price on a guy like Jayson Werth may not be as high as it is for Matt Holliday.

  401. kd December 18th, 2009 at 3:45 pm

    i am intrigued at the possibility of cliff lee. he’s a ‘big game guy’ with great stuff.

    what do people think of his mechanics/durability? do you think he wants a CC contract?

  402. DaSaint007 December 18th, 2009 at 3:45 pm

    Agree with SJ: Jeter and Rivera are givens. Lee could be a replacement for Pettitte. Only other option I would target would be Crawford.

    The only major contract oming off the books after 2010 is Pettitte’s $11.75 million. With renewals of Jeter’s and Rivera’s contracts, and with addition of a SP and LF, the payroll could push to almost $210 million. Forget the LF, and it could be around $195+.

  403. christina25 December 18th, 2009 at 3:46 pm

    He is a 1983 graduate of Northwestern’s Medill School of Journalism and resides in Miami with his wife, Corinne, and daughter Maya

    Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....z0a4jaYUNE
    Get a free NFL Team Jacket and Tee with SI Subscription

  404. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 18th, 2009 at 3:46 pm

    “This is not the only discussion board with Yankees fans. What about NYYfans? I’m sure there are others, and I suspect that Holliday is a topic everywhere”
    —————————————-

    paco: come’on now. You know Kay was referring to this site

  405. no.27 December 18th, 2009 at 3:46 pm

    SJ44,

    “Matsui got 6.5 from the Angels and Nick Johnson got 5 from the yankees.

    Better all around hitter and 5 years younger for 1.5 million less.

    If you add in the 5.5 million Granderson makes next year, Johnson and Granderson make 10.5 million combined in 2010.

    Damon and Matsui made 26 million total last year.

    That’s more than double the money for what may be similar (or close to) production.”

    ESPN says that Matsui got $6M for 1 year and Nick Johnson got $5.5M with the ability to earn incentives based on plate appearances.

    I also don’t see how you can call Nick Johnson a better all around hitter when he is only better at drawing walks. Matsui hits for a better average, has more power, strikes out less, and he’s proven he can come through in a big situation.

    Where did you get your info on the contracts and what makes you think Nick Johnson is a better all around hitter?

  406. Bret the Hitman December 18th, 2009 at 3:46 pm

    MTU,

    The Yankees only needed to elude to an interest in Damon as an option. You can do that without making an offer by saying that you’re not quite ready to make an offer and that you’re leaning more towards a long-term solution in LF either Cabrera or someone else FOR THE RIGHT PRICE (wink wink)

  407. Bret the Hitman December 18th, 2009 at 3:47 pm

    edit: allude

  408. SJ44 December 18th, 2009 at 3:48 pm

    Actually, I like what the Mariners are doing.

    They want to make the playoffs and they see the Angels are hurting.

    Sure, Lee is a rental. However, if they get to the playoffs this year and lose him, they get back 2 first round picks in return.

    They are making a run at it and to do so, you have to give up some prospects to do it.

    If I was a Mariner fan, I would love what Jack Z is doing.

    Right now, they have a better team than the Angels in the AL West, 2 years removed from losing 100+ games.

  409. 86w183 December 18th, 2009 at 3:50 pm

    Seattle getting Bradley may end their interest in Damon. Besides with Ichiro and Figgins Damon makes no sense for them cuz he wont match his 2009 power numbers in that ballpark.

    I have clue about the Yanks and Holliday but it is interesting watching the dance.

  410. blake December 18th, 2009 at 3:51 pm

    Chip, you could also argue that the economy could be better next year allowing more teams to compete for players and therefore driving the prices higher. However you look at it the contract estimates that are floating around for Holliday is a bargain and three years from now it could look like a steal.

  411. Nick in SF December 18th, 2009 at 3:52 pm

    I appreciate all the underbelly laughs that Michael Kay has given us — inadvertent as they may have been.

  412. Paco Dooley December 18th, 2009 at 3:53 pm

    “paco: come’on now. You know Kay was referring to this site”

    I’m not actually up on what other boards there are, so I don’t like to jump to conclusions. I’m also not sure what is on Kay’s rader screen, or what has been said on other boards. I still think of NYYfans as the biggest discussion area for all things Yankees. (though I never visit!).

  413. DaSaint007 December 18th, 2009 at 3:55 pm

    Seattle is doing a great job. And Darren Oliver is still out there to be had. Could be another steal by them.

  414. sab December 18th, 2009 at 3:55 pm

    sure if the mariners are looking at a 1 year run and then going back to oblivion (or Bolivian if you’re mike tyson)then he’s doing a great job – 2 draft picks will probably be coming from the yankees #30 pick or the redsox #28 and a supplemental – yeah thats really going to push them over the top – then add another year to ichiro’s and figgins body and lets not forget hernandez probably testing free agency in 2 years (since that 5 yr 60 mil contract just won’t cut it) and that brings the mariners right back where they were 2 years ago (ie 100 loses) – if thats what you are looking for from your GM then yes he’s doing a helleva job…

  415. PittsburghYankeeFan December 18th, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    So we are the “little underbelly” where Yankee fans talk, Micheal Kay?

    You’re quite the arrogant doofus today…

  416. Daniel Boling December 18th, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    Adam dunn he would be a great fit and the perfect number 5 hitter for this team

  417. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 18th, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    Where are these posts coming from that Swisher has a bad contract or was a salary dump?

    He made 5.5 million last year and will make 6.5 million next year. That is a great contract for Nick Swisher. According to fangraphs he was worth 16 million last year.

    There are not many teams in baseball who would not be happy to have Swisher’s contract on their hands.

  418. S.o.S. December 18th, 2009 at 3:59 pm

    Can someone tell me what bobca-im mean Lost meant when he said there is going to be some news/move by today no later than tomorrow(I know its not verbatem. Similiar)? Did he mean the Yanks landing Holliday or the O’S being that he asked that trivia question after?

  419. Betsy -high on pie December 18th, 2009 at 4:01 pm

    This whole process is enjoying to watch….or it would be if I could divorce myself from the emotions. The Yankees and Red Sox are engaged in a constant chess match, both keeping a wary eye out for the other. Cash and the agents are engaged in a dance of death of sorts – who will blink first? I’m incredibly gullible, so I believe everything I hear……..

  420. PittsburghYankeeFan December 18th, 2009 at 4:02 pm

    Betsy

    “You hear what they want you to hear”

  421. S.o.S. December 18th, 2009 at 4:02 pm

    Adam dunn he would be a great fit and the perfect number 5 hitter for this team

    ======

    I would agree with that except we already signed our dh.

  422. Betsy -high on pie December 18th, 2009 at 4:05 pm

    Pitt, that’s true and I don’t know why I keep needing reminding….I believe all the tweets, all the stories. Gullible might be a nice way of saying “sucker”, lol.

  423. Daniel Boling December 18th, 2009 at 4:09 pm

    I don’t think we should sign matt holliday because Crawford will be available next year

  424. Daniel Boling December 18th, 2009 at 4:14 pm

    Trade swisher for dunn both play about the same defense put him in right playing half his games at the sadium he would hit 50 hr

  425. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 18th, 2009 at 4:17 pm

    Problem is Swisher’s defense is exponentially better than Dunn.

  426. Daniel Boling December 18th, 2009 at 4:20 pm

    I’m just not that high on swisher shaky defense and very inconsistent hitter

  427. Paco Dooley December 18th, 2009 at 4:23 pm

    After reading a bit about Nick Johnson’s recent performance I was wondering how much better his recent performanc would be if he actually got himself into decent playing condition. He looks aweful lately and a good conditioning program could do wonders for him!

  428. mmrfr December 19th, 2009 at 12:56 pm

    One thing I hope Joe looks at wnen putting the order together is BA with runners in scoring posistion. Cano is a .370 hitter with no one own but is below .200 with base loaded and a in the very low .200′s with a runner on second.
    Heck I may lead him off. Milkey is almost the oposite-over .300 with runners in scoring position, can’t hit a lick with bases empty. I might be tempted to bat him 5th. Sounds crazy but its not if they repeat last years numbers. Its hard to understand why Cano can,t when it means the most and Milkey does,t care when it doesn’t.


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