Comments on: Dollars and sense http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2009/12/19/dollars-and-sense/ A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News Fri, 10 Feb 2012 08:34:01 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Lauren http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2009/12/19/dollars-and-sense/comment-page-12/#comment-1190039 Lauren Sun, 20 Dec 2009 15:55:33 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/?p=21903#comment-1190039 Personally, I don't think the Yankees the WS this year WITHOUT Damon AND Matsui. Their willingness to allow them to walk so easily and quickly is astonishing to me. That said, I still think Granderson was a great pick-up but its completely unclear to me whether or not both Granderson or Johnson will possess what both Damon and Matsui clearly have as far as clutch hitting and the ability to win/succeed. Outside of Pettitte, what I've seen this offseason is a little shocking to me, not just the Yankees, but Sox too (letting Bay walk, paying Lackey so much.) I'm just sort of confused on the Yankee goals for next year. Win again? Re-tool and get younger...? Granderson and Johnson are an indication of the latter. ~~~~ On a side note: To CHAD, you are really evolving into quite the efficient blogger. Facts, good thoughts, concise and interesting. This was a great post! Keep it up. Personally, I don’t think the Yankees the WS this year WITHOUT Damon AND Matsui. Their willingness to allow them to walk so easily and quickly is astonishing to me. That said, I still think Granderson was a great pick-up but its completely unclear to me whether or not both Granderson or Johnson will possess what both Damon and Matsui clearly have as far as clutch hitting and the ability to win/succeed.

Outside of Pettitte, what I’ve seen this offseason is a little shocking to me, not just the Yankees, but Sox too (letting Bay walk, paying Lackey so much.) I’m just sort of confused on the Yankee goals for next year. Win again? Re-tool and get younger…? Granderson and Johnson are an indication of the latter.

~~~~
On a side note: To CHAD, you are really evolving into quite the efficient blogger. Facts, good thoughts, concise and interesting. This was a great post! Keep it up.

]]> By: Marty Funkhowser http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2009/12/19/dollars-and-sense/comment-page-12/#comment-1189993 Marty Funkhowser Sun, 20 Dec 2009 14:22:15 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/?p=21903#comment-1189993 I agree with Cash on this one, it is a weird psychological buffer these guys have. I remember first seeing it in my life with Alvaro Espinoza. The Yanks were offering him a contract that wasn't lights out off a poor season for him, but still a starting gig in the bigs, even if the Yankees weren't THE YANKEES at that time. But he turned them down and ended up going to Minny or Cleveland on a minor league deal in the spring and ended up in a bench role, after telling the Yanks he'd NEVER do that. Espy had a home here and a starting role but ego or pride got in the way. I agree with Cash on this one, it is a weird psychological buffer these guys have.

I remember first seeing it in my life with Alvaro Espinoza. The Yanks were offering him a contract that wasn’t lights out off a poor season for him, but still a starting gig in the bigs, even if the Yankees weren’t THE YANKEES at that time. But he turned them down and ended up going to Minny or Cleveland on a minor league deal in the spring and ended up in a bench role, after telling the Yanks he’d NEVER do that. Espy had a home here and a starting role but ego or pride got in the way.

]]> By: mick http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2009/12/19/dollars-and-sense/comment-page-12/#comment-1189992 mick Sun, 20 Dec 2009 14:21:19 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/?p=21903#comment-1189992 --------------------> ——————–>

]]> By: Abdababdaserser http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2009/12/19/dollars-and-sense/comment-page-12/#comment-1189990 Abdababdaserser Sun, 20 Dec 2009 14:17:53 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/?p=21903#comment-1189990 dipper13, that isn't only Boras' negotiation strategy, its every agent who does that. Boras usually wins out so often because he doesn't crack as early as other agents do. I think there were a combination of problems with Damon and the Yankees. The Yankees wanted Damon over Matsui, but Matsui, reading his tea leaves, left early. That changed the backup plan for the Yankees. Damon and Boras also were over-valuing the market for Damon. No one wanted to pay him what he was asking for. Once it looks like a party isn't going to budge much in negotiations you look elsewhere for your solutions. Damon and Boras did start breaking down their demands, but not far enough for where the Yankees were, nearly completing the negotiation with Johnson to take the role they had planned for Damon. That dropped Damon's value to the team even further. The Yankees need became a moving goalpost, mainly because the plans changed. Boras didn't adjust properly and read the situation for what it was. Holliday can field quite well, as various stats show. He can also hit, though he did struggle - just like Teixeira did in the beginning of the season. The stats show this as well. Apparently you don't want Holliday, which is fine, but don't put out incorrect information as the reason behind it. Joba to the pen. While I can understand this sentiment, and it seems that there are some thoughts leaning that way from the Yankee GM, it is too soon to make that move. Despite the media pushing their opinions regarding the pitcher, Joba can very well post an under 4 ERA as a starter. That is good for a number 4 of the rotation. We also don't know how much conditioning and pitching more innings than he has even done in his life lead to him running into a wall. His innings limitations were tough to deal with, and he didn't always listen to his coaches and fellow players. Maybe he can sort that out this season. dipper13, that isn’t only Boras’ negotiation strategy, its every agent who does that. Boras usually wins out so often because he doesn’t crack as early as other agents do.

I think there were a combination of problems with Damon and the Yankees. The Yankees wanted Damon over Matsui, but Matsui, reading his tea leaves, left early. That changed the backup plan for the Yankees. Damon and Boras also were over-valuing the market for Damon. No one wanted to pay him what he was asking for.

Once it looks like a party isn’t going to budge much in negotiations you look elsewhere for your solutions. Damon and Boras did start breaking down their demands, but not far enough for where the Yankees were, nearly completing the negotiation with Johnson to take the role they had planned for Damon. That dropped Damon’s value to the team even further.

The Yankees need became a moving goalpost, mainly because the plans changed. Boras didn’t adjust properly and read the situation for what it was.

Holliday can field quite well, as various stats show. He can also hit, though he did struggle – just like Teixeira did in the beginning of the season. The stats show this as well. Apparently you don’t want Holliday, which is fine, but don’t put out incorrect information as the reason behind it.

Joba to the pen. While I can understand this sentiment, and it seems that there are some thoughts leaning that way from the Yankee GM, it is too soon to make that move. Despite the media pushing their opinions regarding the pitcher, Joba can very well post an under 4 ERA as a starter. That is good for a number 4 of the rotation. We also don’t know how much conditioning and pitching more innings than he has even done in his life lead to him running into a wall. His innings limitations were tough to deal with, and he didn’t always listen to his coaches and fellow players. Maybe he can sort that out this season.

]]> By: dipper13 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2009/12/19/dollars-and-sense/comment-page-12/#comment-1189988 dipper13 Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:57:48 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/?p=21903#comment-1189988 Regarding Damon i have this explanation. Boras' negotiation tactics is to start high so you can settle high. Originally it was Bay and Holliday money over 4 years and when that was shot down it went down but the point was that he signaled to the yanks that if was two years it would be at 26 million. He didnt read what Cashman was saying until about a month had passed cause he didnt believe it. By the time Damon got involved it was too late. Sometimes when someone says they are constrained by dollars and length of contract you need to believe it. Boras didnt believe it and Damon didnt get involved until it was too late. I dont want Holiday cause he cant field and he didnt hit that good in Oakland. Let's get some pitching help and keep Joba in the bullpen for good. Regarding Damon i have this explanation.
Boras’ negotiation tactics is to start high so you can settle high. Originally it was Bay and Holliday money over 4 years and when that was shot down it went down but the point was that he signaled to the yanks that if was two years it would be at 26 million. He didnt read what Cashman was saying until about a month had passed cause he didnt believe it. By the time Damon got involved it was too late. Sometimes when someone says they are constrained by dollars and length of contract you need to believe it. Boras didnt believe it and Damon didnt get involved until it was too late. I dont want Holiday cause he cant field and he didnt hit that good in Oakland. Let’s get some pitching help and keep Joba in the bullpen for good.

]]> By: Phil the Thrill http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2009/12/19/dollars-and-sense/comment-page-12/#comment-1189987 Phil the Thrill Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:44:59 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/?p=21903#comment-1189987 But only if they get another starter. He cleared that up on the Michael Kay show Friday. But only if they get another starter. He cleared that up on the Michael Kay show Friday.

]]> By: joeman http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2009/12/19/dollars-and-sense/comment-page-12/#comment-1189985 joeman Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:39:40 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/?p=21903#comment-1189985 did Boras pull the rug out from under Damon ? I hope he gets close to what he wanted somewhere but I can't see it....fire the man Johnny did Boras pull the rug out from under Damon ? I hope he gets close to what he wanted somewhere but I can’t see it….fire the man Johnny

]]> By: joeman http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2009/12/19/dollars-and-sense/comment-page-12/#comment-1189984 joeman Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:36:51 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/?p=21903#comment-1189984 Cash said that either Hughes or Joba were going to pitch out of the pen more than once Cash said that either Hughes or Joba were going to pitch out of the pen more than once

]]> By: OKI/DAVE http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2009/12/19/dollars-and-sense/comment-page-12/#comment-1189981 OKI/DAVE Sun, 20 Dec 2009 12:34:24 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/?p=21903#comment-1189981 Here in Japan, I watched an interview with Matsui's old high school coach (who taught him everything). I think the manager told Matsui that Southern California weather would be better for his legs. I'm not sure if that was the deciding factor. Here in Japan, I watched an interview with Matsui’s old high school coach (who taught him everything). I think the manager told Matsui that Southern California weather would be better for his legs. I’m not sure if that was the deciding factor.

]]> By: Neil http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2009/12/19/dollars-and-sense/comment-page-12/#comment-1189980 Neil Sun, 20 Dec 2009 12:29:32 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/?p=21903#comment-1189980 The Lowell deal is off. Surgery needed. http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/this-just-in/215728/lowell-deal The Lowell deal is off. Surgery needed.

http://www.weei.com/sports/bos.....owell-deal

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