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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Rounding out the rotation

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 19, 2009 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Two of his three biggest moves have been for a position player, but Brian Cashman has insisted that “pitching, pitching, pitching” is his winter priority. He brought back Andy Pettitte during the Winter Meetings, he added CC Sabathia and A.J. Burnett last winter, and Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain remain high potential starters (or relievers, but that’s a debate for another day). Chad Gaudin, Alfredo Aceves, Sergio Mitre, Ivan Nova and Zach McAllister provide depth.

If the Yankees want to add another starter, who should they target?

When Sam and I were asked about it during Thursday’s chat, we only slightly disagreed. I said Ben Sheets should be the top target, Sam said Justin Duchscherer, but we agreed that one of those two would make the most sense. Joe over at River Ave. Blues seems to agree.

Is there another free agent starter you’d like to see the Yankees go after?

I contend that most of the available arms — Jason Marquis, Doug Davis, Jon Garland and even Joel Pineiro coming off a great year — would provide only a marginal upgrade over Hughes or Chamberlain, if they provide an upgrade at all. Sheets and Duchscherer offer a chance a significant impact, and having Hughes and Chamberlain leaves the Yankees able to take on the risk associated with each. The only other name I would add to that list is Kelvim Escobar, but only on the smallest of contracs. He’s been a great pitcher, but he’s hardly pitched the past two years.

Who else do you like? Sheets, Duchscherer and Escobar are out there. Is there anyone else worth watching?

Comments

comments

 

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322 Responses to “Rounding out the rotation”

  1. EricNS December 19th, 2009 at 9:34 am

    Johnny Damon – just kidding!

  2. Bronx Jeers December 19th, 2009 at 9:36 am

    What about this Wang guy?

    I’ve heard this guy can do some damage if only he can rediscover his sinker.

  3. MTU December 19th, 2009 at 9:37 am

    If it’s FA’s only and not trades I agree the targets should be Sheets/Duke.

    No hurry on sheets.

    Holliday is gonna get done first(maybe).

    If healthy sheets makes a great addition for the postseason as well.

    Duke is more of a bargain $ wise.

  4. luis December 19th, 2009 at 9:38 am

    bedard

  5. MTU December 19th, 2009 at 9:39 am

    Satchel Paige.

    Isn’t he a free agent. He’s durable and He’s really good.

    Is he even alive ?

  6. Mike December 19th, 2009 at 9:39 am

    I heard that Morrow from the M’s is on the block. They want a corner infielder for him. Maybe a trade of Juan Miranda and low level prospect will get it done.

  7. MTU December 19th, 2009 at 9:40 am

    Was Paige a pitcher. I forgot. oops !

  8. MTU December 19th, 2009 at 9:43 am

    We haven’t heard much about Bedard this off season. Is he healthy ?

    What about his supposed clubhouse issues ?

    What would his price be ?

  9. Ace December 19th, 2009 at 9:44 am

    Sheets – absolutely filthy when healthy. Although I don’t know why he would want to revive his career at Yankee Stadium. Seems to me it would cost him a few dollars since he is prone to the HR.

  10. lordbyron December 19th, 2009 at 9:46 am

    You guys pretty much nailed the available options and a healthy Sheets should be the top priority. I also like bringing the Wanger back.

  11. Will December 19th, 2009 at 9:48 am

    While waiting to see if Holliday becomes a reality, I’d like to ask a question regarding the line up the Yanks can post as of right now. Someone on another blog posed the suggestion that Granderson should lead off, followed by NJ and then Jeet. If Grandy was leading off, I’d prefer to follow with Jeet and then NJ (if only to break up the lefties.)

    In any case, the full line up would be, for example:

    Grandy
    Jeet
    NJ
    ARod
    Teix
    Posada
    Swisher
    Cano
    Melky

    The reasoning was that Grandy is an ideal type of lead off hitter, if an usually powerful one, and that ARod would, in any event, get far better protection from Teix.

    I’d be interested to know how you folks view that idea (apologies if this has already been beaten to death in an earlier thread that I haven’t read.)

  12. Say No To Lowe December 19th, 2009 at 9:49 am

    I just hope they don’t make a trade with the Braves for Derek Lowe. I keep hearing Swisher for Lowe, and even if the Braves were to eat some of Lowe’s salary I’d still rather see both Joba and Hughes in the #4 and #5 spot, rather than Lowe at #4 and Joba and Hughes battling it out for #5. After all, Lowe had a 4.67 ERA in the NL, which translates to an ERA of 5+ in the AL. The only advantage Lowe gives is the ability to pitch .won’t

  13. ChrisAutriche December 19th, 2009 at 9:52 am

    Pineiro’s 2009 is intriguing (a FIP of 3.27 and xFIP of 3.68 are great), but as Dave Allen wrote over at Fangraphs (http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....el-pineiro) it looks like an outlier. He’s become an extreme groundball pitcher, so fluctuations are to be expected; his extremely low BB rate is nice, but pitching to contact can lead to unexpected results, and tbh the Yankees have to account for Jeter/ARod getting older and possibly regressing defensively (even though ARod should not be hindered by his hip issues as much as he was last year). He has only once before pitched more than 200 innings, so this is another cause for concern. And he is probably gonna get a pretty good offer from some NL team, so he won’t come cheap either. So I would pass as well.

    I’d definitely like the Yankees to take a flier at Sheets/Duchscherer (although Sheets seems to seek top dollar, so this might take a while), but with Gaudin back that should be enough. Ideally I would prefer a more seasoned #3/#4 starter (depending on where one ranks Andy), but I simply don’t see it out there without a major trade that is unlikely to happen.

  14. richthomas81 December 19th, 2009 at 9:54 am

    I agree with the idea of signing Sheets. However, if I were interested in injured reclamation projects, I would start with the guy who spent serious time in the AL East, lefthander Erik Bedard. Aside from his lost foray into Seattle, he has shown amazing moxy. I would give him a shot first.

  15. Mickey B December 19th, 2009 at 9:54 am

    “I heard that Morrow from the M’s is on the block. They want a corner infielder for him. Maybe a trade of Juan Miranda and low level prospect will get it done.”

    And the Mariners GM would hang up on you. Giggling as he did so.

  16. ChrisAutriche December 19th, 2009 at 9:55 am

    @MTU – IIRC Bedard won’t be ready until June or so, but I can’t find a link right now.

    Will – Granderson is NOT a leadoff hitter. His best OBP was .365 in 2008, and while we can be hopeful he can improve on last year’s .327 I’d much rather have Jeter on base 4 out of 10 times to lead off.

  17. Brad S77 December 19th, 2009 at 10:01 am

    One possibililty would be Swisher for Javy Vazquez. I know he had a prro second half and play-offs in 2004, and the Boss wanted to get rid of him because of the play-offs. But while here before, he was 10-5 and an All-star in the first half. He seemingly changed his aarm angle to try to get more movement against the tougher AL line-ups and suffered in the second half.

    However, in his return to the AL (with the White Sox), he seemed to do pretty well…certainly a strong #5 starter. I think he even went 15-8 one of those years.

    He is a workhorse, young and cheap at $11M.

  18. The Phranchise December 19th, 2009 at 10:01 am

    Sheets makes the most sense. He is top of the rotation guy. With Hughes innings limit, Gaudin, Mitre and Aceves, they have backstops with injury. He also must have some relationship with CC to try and push this forward. Disherer is interesting because at the back of the rotation he has been great as a starter and the pen. He would be a very flexable option. I would definitely target Sheet first and see how the market plays out for Dusherer. He could be a terriffic option as a setup guy with ability as a starter if they required it.

    Bedard is a head case and is a clubhouse cancer on top of his other issues. Escobar is never healthy now and isn’t in the same category as Sheets. Yankees had Piniero, he is an NL pitcher like a few of these other guys.

  19. B December 19th, 2009 at 10:02 am

    Chad, great job on the blog.

    I believe Escobar said he would like to pitch in relief so he can save the arm

  20. disco stu December 19th, 2009 at 10:02 am

    Well, if it is going to be a FA then the usual suspects are Sheets, Duchscheer, Bedard, etc. … pitchers who have had previous success but because of recent injuries have lost significant value.

    If that is the type of pitcher the Yankees are targeting … someone who may viewed as sort of a reclamation project, then what about trade scenarios for pitchers who are in a similar boat?

    Are D-Backs commited to getting Brandon Webb all the way back a year before he is set to hit free agency? Is their plan to then sign him long term if he shows he is healthy again in 2010? Or are they willing to deal him now and get something in return because they are unsure what he will be moving forward? In any case, do the Yankees kick the tires on him?

    Also, what about Chad Billingsly? What exactly are the Dodgers doing in regards to him these days? They basically buried him in rehab last year and he didnt sniff the post-season roster? Talk about major upside and someone who is currently under cost control.

    Those are two names that come to mind for me.

  21. EdWhitson December 19th, 2009 at 10:03 am

    This is a good post. IMO, the only potential difference maker is Sheets and who knows what he has at his point. Guys like Marquis are filler. If you want a difference maker, there will need to be a trade and I don’t know who is on the market.

  22. Mark in Tampa December 19th, 2009 at 10:07 am

    Escobar is no longer a starter:

    “Mariners, Brewers, Orioles, Mets, and Yankees are other suitors for Escobar, who will pitch as a reliever in 2010 in hopes of preserving his shoulder.” MLBTR

  23. Daniel Boling December 19th, 2009 at 10:08 am

    Bring back Wang with a minor league contract with incentives

  24. Mark in Tampa December 19th, 2009 at 10:09 am

    Forget about Jason Marquis, Doug Davis, Jon Garland and Joel Pineiro.

    They are young Sidney Ponsons in training.

  25. Lorenzo December 19th, 2009 at 10:11 am

    Personally if i was cashman id sign 2 of the following three (my preference is in this order)

    Sheets
    Wang
    Duchscherer

    I would also look at a possible trade of Nick Swisher (Yes i love the guy but) for Javier Vazquez. He pitched well for us before and has always been a good pitcher. I think he would once again put up all star type numbers (yes i know he only did it in the first half of the season when he was w us before) but when i watch him pitch now, He is so much better then before

  26. Stan December 19th, 2009 at 10:12 am

    Just a healthy innings eater to keep the bullpen from burnout will do just fine. As a No. 4 starter, it’s all the Yankees will need. As for names ………

  27. blake December 19th, 2009 at 10:12 am

    Sheets is the only difference maker. He has top of the rotation stuff and command. If they don’t get Holliday them I think Sheets is by far the best option. However if they do sign Holliday then because the offense will be just unbelievable they could probably afford to go a little cheaper on the starter.

  28. disco stu December 19th, 2009 at 10:14 am

    I would guess another scenario could very well be that the Yankees were so impressed with Aroldis Chapman that they will look to sign him and even though he starts 2010 in the minors (maybe High A Tampa?), they anticipate that he will move quickly thru the ranks and project him to be on the ML roster by mid-season.

    Then the Yankees just use in-house options to round out the staff for the first half of the season.

  29. blake December 19th, 2009 at 10:18 am

    If Wang would accept a minor league deal then that’s a no brainer. I doubt he would though.

  30. TarheelYank December 19th, 2009 at 10:18 am

    I also wonder about the D-Backs and the financial constraints they are working under. Eric Byrnes is going to make 11m next year. Webb/Byrnes or Haren/Byrnes would remove 19.5m from the books. Could Cash put together a package to entice them?

  31. Matt December 19th, 2009 at 10:18 am

    I would definitely consider a deal with the Atlanta Braves for former Yankee Javier Vasquez who has learned some things since leaving.
    Gardner, Miranda, and Edwar Ramirez should seal the deal.

  32. Patrick December 19th, 2009 at 10:18 am

    I don’t want any starter, I think it’s time Hughes and Chamberlain step into the rotation full-time

  33. PittsburghYankeeFan December 19th, 2009 at 10:20 am

    Sheets wants too much $$$$, but someone out there is desperate enough for a starter that he’ll get paid. If I were him I would only do a one year, then rake it in in 2011. I suspect he’ll stay in the NL, which would showcase him better.

    Back to topic A of last night. Holliday makes too much sense for the Yankees not to be semi-serious. They can go with Melky, and be fine, but within 2 years Melky becomes a FA, and suddenly he’s probably not worth what you would have to pay for him.

    The deal, if it happens, will depend on (1) what the Yankees think of his AL versus NL stats; (2) whether the Yankees think they can realistically get Carl Crawford in 2011, who is a left handed version of Holliday; and (3) whether Holliday (who I think does want NYY, since he wants to follow the last Oklamhoman All Star into Yankee history) is willing to accept the Yankees numbers. The Yankees have a number at which they value Holliday as their LF.

    Why does this matter to the topic of this thread? Signing Holliday suddenly makes Melky and/or GGBG more expendable. The Yankees can then wait on Sheets, pass if he’s too much $$$$, and package prospects plus Melky or GGBG for a starter. This can even be done in May, June, or July, allowing everyone to get a better look at Wang, Joba, and Phil Hughes.

    CompassRosy, Jack Z is not going to extend both Lee and King Felix, is he? That would be around $30-40 million in payroll on a club with a $100 million budget. The M’s need a decent catcher, don’t they? Too bad they traded for Milton Bradley (yuck). Melky plus something may have worked there.

  34. blake December 19th, 2009 at 10:21 am

    Disco, yea I’ve thought of that. I just don’t know enough about Chapman to know if that’s an option. A lot of reports say he isn’t close to the majors..but who knows.

  35. RS December 19th, 2009 at 10:22 am

    Will Escobar and Duchscherer cost draft picks? Sheets is especially intriguiging because he doesn’t cost any draft picks, even though he’s technically a Type A FA.

    I also like Sheets because when he’s healthy, he averages close to 7 innings per start. To me, he’s very similar to Lackey, and would even up our rotation against the Sox.

    In a perfect world, the Yankees would get Sheets for the rotation and Duchscherer for the bullpen, but I’m not sure that fits into their budget.

  36. jonathan c. December 19th, 2009 at 10:24 am

    Sheets, if healthy (a big if, admittedly), is a better pitcher than Lackey.

  37. Frank December 19th, 2009 at 10:26 am

    “CompassRosy, Jack Z is not going to extend both Lee and King Felix, is he? That would be around $30-40 million in payroll on a club with a $100 million budget”

    Sure seems like getting Lee was Jack Z believing he can win a division this year, especially with the Angels likely to take a step backwards. Can’t imagine he’s about to move Lee now. If things go awry, it seems possible he could be available by the trade deadline, but I can’t see it sooner.

  38. 86w183 December 19th, 2009 at 10:26 am

    Duchscherer has one season as a starter and that was for all of 22 starts in 2008 and has not pitched since. He has shown nothing to indicate he would be more reliable than or an upgrade over either Hughes or Chamberlain.

    Sheets is every bit the health risk if not more, but he has front of the rotation stuff that Duchscherer does not.

    However if Sheets is really demanding $ 10-12 Million guaranteed you’d be crazy to give him that. Then maybe Wang for a rehab hope and/or Escobar for bullpen insurance.

  39. Don Capone December 19th, 2009 at 10:27 am

    I’d rather have Wang than any of those other guys. Anyway, Joba and Hughes are #4 and 5, and barring injury, that’s your staff.

  40. The Phranchise December 19th, 2009 at 10:29 am

    A few people have mentioned it, but I still don’t know why a Swisher trade isn’t making much noise. He is still reasonable under this years cap money, but his contract upticks substantially after this one. Yankees would have to eat some money on it, but probably on the back end of the deal, not this year. He is young enough and supplies good power for an NL team. Moving him would free up a roster slot this year to bring back Damon at the right price. It would straighten out cash flow for them after this year. Nick Johnson is your backup first baseman. Also could bring back a piece or two as far as prospects or bullpen help. Or you could expand upon the deal and try to bring in a nice piece.

  41. tex's friend December 19th, 2009 at 10:32 am

    damon is not coming back, even if swisher is traded.

    why would anyone want to trade swisher right now? had an excellent power year, got better in the field toward the end, and is cost effective.

    vasquez looks like a product of the NL.

  42. The Phranchise December 19th, 2009 at 10:32 am

    The guy I really want the Yankees to land is Josh Johnson. Being in Florida he is in the background a bit. He had the injury. But that kid is the full package and could be a #1 starter. His best years are ahead. He doesn’t have the spotlight as Verlander or King Felix, but think he will end up being much better than Matt Cain and some other guys out there. Plus he seems to have a bit of that nasty personality of a frontline starter.

  43. tex's friend December 19th, 2009 at 10:34 am

    i think johnson is a FA after 2010 no, maybe 11.

    if 2010, he can ride it out and try to let the yankees throw the money at him in FA.

    even if he gets traded before to another team, he doesnt have to sign an extension with them.

    he will come out as a FA the first chance he can.

  44. PittsburghYankeeFan December 19th, 2009 at 10:35 am

    If you’re going to eat $$$$ on the back end of a deal, be sure that the player you’re eating for can’t do you any good.

    Good OBP and 30 HR per year with the player’s prime years coming up under your control is nothing to sneeze at, even at the higher number. The contract’s AAV is still decent at about $6.5 per year.

    Not sure they’d trade Swish. It was funny to see some teams put out feelers in the media for Swish once the Yankees signed Granderson.

    George is at home in Tampa, boys, and his sons and Cash now control the club. That strategy ain’t working no more.

  45. The Phranchise December 19th, 2009 at 10:36 am

    You want to move Swisher because he has peeked in value. He is still tradeable He makes $5 mill this year, but his contract goes to $10 and then $11 mill a year. His bat wasn’t consistent, just like his fielding. I love him, but from the Yankees standpoint it makes sense to move him if you can for the right return package. His best stretch was the start of last season, strip that out and the numbers were not good. Again, this is coming from a guy who wanted him here since he was in Oakland, but I think this year and beyond it makes complete sense to trade him. With Granderson out there, the Yankees will be targeting Crawford out there next year for sure. Given that they will probably want that other spot to be a cheap inhouse option, an inexpensive contract or have the spot open for Montero if he proves not to be a catcher.

  46. Frank December 19th, 2009 at 10:38 am

    “why would anyone want to trade swisher right now? had an excellent power year, got better in the field toward the end, and is cost effective”

    Agreed. Further, I think he’s worth more to the Yankees than he brings in trade.

  47. blake December 19th, 2009 at 10:40 am

    Why would the Yankees wait a year on Crawford (who may sign an extension with the Rays), when a better player is available now in Holliday. The Yankees aren’t gettin any younger, why wait. Crawford is gonna be expensive too. Do you think the Yankees are going to re-sign, Jeter and Rivera, go after a starter like Cliff Lee, and sign Crawford all in the same offseason?

  48. Ken December 19th, 2009 at 10:41 am

    Nick Johnson wore No. 11 and No. 36 during his 1st time as a Yankee.
    No. 12 would look better this time. No. 2 as the leadoff hitter and No. 12 as the No. 2 hitter looks good.

  49. The Phranchise December 19th, 2009 at 10:44 am

    The signed CC, AJ and Tex all in the same offseason, so why not? And I don’t want Cliff Lee. And Holliday is what exactly? Away from Colorado he is a very good player no doubt. But a .300 hitter that hits 20 something homers and drives in 100 runs doesn’t sound exciting. A guy like Crawford that steals 50 bases and hits .300 with some pop in this lineup does. We have guys to drive in runs. I want a guy that creates the action on the bases and scores the runs in front of those guys.

  50. RSM December 19th, 2009 at 10:44 am

    1) Sign Holliday – He rejected Boston and St Louis, who do you think he is waiting for? He’s your new Left Fielder.
    2) Trade Swisher for Lowe. Lowe is better than he pitched last year and will bounce back, and eat innings in the process.
    3) Melky plays Right Field.
    4) After signing Nick Johnson, Gardner becomes an important part of the bench.

    Done.

  51. jpb1973 December 19th, 2009 at 10:45 am

    Chad makes a good point. There just aren’t any good starting pitchers in free agency. That being the case, the Yankees should either pursue a top-line starter via the trade route or pursue a very good reliever via either the trade route or free agency. It probably is going to be easier to get a reliever through the trade route than to get a starter, If the Yankees can bullet-proof their bullpen then they can can get by with a starting rotation of Sabathia, Burnett, Pettitte, Chamberlain and Hughes.

    Heck, they won a World Chamionship last year when, for most of the season, our 5th starter was either a dinminshed Chien Ming Wang or Sergio Mitre. The improved bullpen is why the Yankees got to the playoffs and succeeded in the playoffs.

  52. Phil December 19th, 2009 at 10:45 am

    Lowe’s got a horrible contract and really looked like he was in steep decline last year.

  53. Howard Cosell December 19th, 2009 at 10:45 am

    There is something to be said about trading Swisher at his height and concerns about salary. If the Yankees think the Swish is the real deal(a solid all round corner outfielder) and whats to think he is not – then they should renegotiate his contract at 21 million on a three year deal. I think he would be happy with that. I think he is one guy that values playing in NY and on the Yankees.

    If the Yankees can get Bedard for one year deal at 5- 7 million as the 5th starter – do it in a heartbeat. This guy can pitch and with no pressure in the 5th slot and hanging out with CC and AJ he will get protected form the press.

    Like one of the posts – I wish we had more info on his health. From what I’ve read here in Seattle – he is ready for Spring training………

    HC

  54. Abdababdaserser December 19th, 2009 at 10:48 am

    Swisher had shown that he will work to improve his fielding and throwing. He worked with Eiland to improve how he was throwing the ball in.

    His fielding may never be great, but he is decent enough for RF and will probably devote time toward getting better.

    His batting can go into slumps, but there again, he works it with Long. He is able to be coached and seems to learn fairly quickly.

  55. The Phranchise December 19th, 2009 at 10:49 am

    The problem with Bedard is all I have read he has a Kevin Brown personality. Teamates don’t like him. Seattle for a while was questioning whether he didn’t want to pitch and wasn’t really hurt two years ago. I can’t remember exactly where, but I also thought I read him say some negative stuff about pitching in big markets. He just seems like a guy you would take if you were stuck and forced to sign him rather someone you would choose over the other guys out there.

  56. Kevin Page December 19th, 2009 at 10:51 am

    I’m not sure why everything thinks Holliday is a matter of fact performer. I just don’t see him cutting it in NY and under the pressure situations.

    He’s not a bad player, but a highly overvalued one since it’s just really him and Bay on the market.

    I’ve heard he doesn’t want to play in NY and isn’t he a big religious guy (in a negative way) ?

  57. 86w183 December 19th, 2009 at 10:51 am

    RSM —

    Those moves add $ 25 Million to the 2010 payroll IF Holliday signs for $17. Don’t see that much coin being spent.

    I’m not convinced Derek Lowe is an improvement on Joba for 2010… and at $ 15 M a year for three more years that’s a bad contract.

  58. Roger(live from Amsterdam) December 19th, 2009 at 10:51 am

    I think Swisher is more important for this team then any of his numbers say

  59. PittsburghYankeeFan December 19th, 2009 at 10:52 am

    I am warming to the Bedard idea. Just looked at his splits on ESPN. He’s the pitching version of Nick Johnson, however.

    A one year contract with incentives? Around $5-6 base? Hmmm.

  60. blake December 19th, 2009 at 10:53 am

    Phranchise, looks at the numbers of Crawford vs Holliday. I think you’ll be surprised. Do you think Crawford is going to steal 50 bases up into his 30′s? And again, Crawford likes Tampa and may sign an extension, then what?

  61. Say No To Lowe December 19th, 2009 at 10:54 am

    As much as I would love to see the Yanks sign Holliday, it’s probably not going to happen, as they have a strong enough offense without them. As for the other options:

    Sheets is probably going to be too expensive to sign

    Lowe had an awful year in the NL, and has a terrible contract that the Yanks won’t take on

    Bedard is an option, but not sure if he’s the right choice

    I personally would like to see the Yanks sign Sheets or Wang, and if not, probably would just rather see them go with Joba and Hughes rather than trade away more talent. After all, they can always make a trade for someone else during the season if Joba and/or Hughes proves incapable of giving them quality starts

  62. RhapsodyInBlue December 19th, 2009 at 10:54 am

    “I’ve heard he doesn’t want to play in NY and isn’t he a big religious guy (in a negative way) ?”

    An atheist in a positive way is preferable.

  63. blake December 19th, 2009 at 10:54 am

    Bedard at 5-6 million wouldn’t be bad. If they don’t sign Holliday then I see no reason not to go after Sheets though.

  64. PittsburghYankeeFan December 19th, 2009 at 10:55 am

    On the other hand, Ben Sheets is a monster if he’s healthy. An interesting decision awaits.

  65. Say No To Lowe December 19th, 2009 at 10:56 am

    “The problem with Bedard is all I have read he has a Kevin Brown personality. Teamates don’t like him. Seattle for a while was questioning whether he didn’t want to pitch and wasn’t really hurt two years ago. I can’t remember exactly where, but I also thought I read him say some negative stuff about pitching in big markets. He just seems like a guy you would take if you were stuck and forced to sign him rather someone you would choose over the other guys out there.”

    If that’s the case then I definitely wouldn’t consider signing Bedard, no matter how much potential he has. One of the keys of us winning was our chemistry, which I really don’t want to screw up (and is another reason to keep Swisher).

  66. blake December 19th, 2009 at 10:57 am

    If the Yankees sign Sheets and he is healthy then our #4 is better than Boston’s #3.

  67. Abdababdaserser December 19th, 2009 at 10:57 am

    I’ve heard he doesn’t want to play in NY and isn’t he a big religious guy (in a negative way) ?

    ______________

    You must be the only one who has heard anything about him not wanting to play in NY. He has talked about it and even said he would like to live in one of the big cities. But why let little things like that get in the way of the real reason you seem against him.

    Mariano is very religious, so I guess we should can him. Holliday does have strong beliefs and yet its even been in reports that he doesn’t make outward shows that a number of players do. I don’t see how anyone’s belief in God can be a negative, they aren’t preaching to you.

  68. Yanks 61 December 19th, 2009 at 10:59 am

    Duchester has only been a starter 1 year of his career (2008— and he only threw 141 innings and ended up missing all of 2009 with an arm injury.

    He is not a starter. He is a reliever.

    Sheets or bust. The Marquis’ or Garland’s of the world are not going to outperform Joba/Hughes. If you want a reclamation project guy, you might as well sign the best one.

  69. rick December 19th, 2009 at 11:00 am

    The yankees will go with what they have now. a fourth and a fifth from chamberlain, hughes, gaudin, and mitre…they will use melancon, marte, and robertson as the bridge to rivera this year. the spending is over go enjoy Christmas.

  70. Say No To Lowe December 19th, 2009 at 11:02 am

    Just saw that Ben Sheets only averaged 150 innings pitched from 2005-2008. If you include last year then he averaged 120 innings over the last 5 years. I still might take a chance on him, but he’s nuts if he thinks a team is going to guarantee him $12 million a year. If he’s not willing to take an Andy Pettite-like contract with a small base salary and incentives that could bring the contract to $10-12 million, then forget him!

  71. Jim December 19th, 2009 at 11:03 am

    Bedard was quoted back in o6 (when he was with Baltimore) as saying he wouldn’t like to pitch in NY because it is too overwhelming, and thinks Boston is more laid back. He even referenced how there are times where he skips media sessions because he hates talking to the media. By all reports, be is a jerk in the clubhouse as well.

    Again, Sheets is far and away the best option. No character concerns, has proven he can be a horse when healthy, and is seemingly healthier than Bedard/Wang/Dutchester. His stuff is also the best. All the factors swing in Sheets’ favor.

  72. Yankee Trader December 19th, 2009 at 11:04 am

    Starting pitchers
    Brandon Backe (32)
    Cha Seung Baek (30)
    Miguel Batista (39)
    Erik Bedard (31) – Type B, not offered arb
    Kris Benson (34)
    Paul Byrd (39)
    Daniel Cabrera (29)
    D.J. Carrasco (33)
    Aroldis Chapman (22)
    Bartolo Colon (37)
    Jose Contreras (38)
    Doug Davis (34) – Type B, not offered arb
    Lenny DiNardo (30)
    Justin Duchscherer (32) – Type B, offered arb
    Adam Eaton (32)
    Shawn Estes (37)
    Josh Fogg (33)
    Jon Garland (30) – Type B, not offered arb
    Tom Glavine (44)
    Mike Hampton (37)
    Mark Hendrickson (36)
    Livan Hernandez (35)
    Rich Hill (30)
    Shawn Hill (29)
    Jason Jennings (31)
    Jason Johnson (36)
    Randy Johnson (46) – Type B, not offered arb
    Braden Looper (35) – Type B, not offered arb
    Noah Lowry (29)
    Jason Marquis (31) – Type B, offered arb
    Pedro Martinez (38)
    Eric Milton (34)
    Dustin Moseley (28)
    Mark Mulder (32)
    Brett Myers (29)
    Vicente Padilla (32) – Type B, not offered arb
    Odalis Perez (33)
    Joel Pineiro (31) – Type B, offered arb
    Sidney Ponson (33)
    Mark Prior (28)
    Horacio Ramirez (30)
    Tim Redding (32)
    Jason Schmidt (37)
    Ben Sheets (31)
    John Smoltz (43)
    Brett Tomko (37)
    Chien-Ming Wang (30)
    Jarrod Washburn (35)
    Todd Wellemeyer (31)
    Kip Wells (33)

    If the Yankees want someone who can give you 190-200 innings then Marquis, Piniero, Davis, Padilla and maybe Washburn.

    If they want a reclamation project, then there’s Bedard, Duchscherer, Myers, Sheets, Wang.

    If they want another lefty then it’s Bedard, Washburn, Davis.

    If they want to replenish their farm system with a power lefty then it’s Chapman.

    I’m guessing that they want someone to sign for 6-7M with incentives, which will probably leave us with a reclamation project.

    Escobar was born missing a muscle in the back of his shoulder and is recovering from Labrum surgery. At best he’s a bullpen arm.

  73. tex's friend December 19th, 2009 at 11:04 am

    Johnny] Damon said in a text message Friday that the Yankees had offered two years and $14 million, while he had offered to return for two years and $20 million. That was true, a Yankees official confirmed, but by then, the Yankees and Johnson had nearly finished their deal and it was too late to turn back.

    ___

    this is interesting. 7 mil a year for damon for two years.

    at 7 mil (14 for 2 years), i would have liked to have johnny back. the problem with letting boras talk for you, is he can sometimes put you in this position. johnny was 1 day late.

  74. Tom on N.J. December 19th, 2009 at 11:05 am

    Matt Holliday is a member of the Fellowship of Christian Athletes. Other MLB’ers are Brian Roberts, and Albert Pujols.

  75. Tank December 19th, 2009 at 11:06 am

    Sheets has thrown 200 innings 3 times… but none sense 2004.

    Bedars has never thrown 200 innings (came close in 06 with 196).

    Ducheser has never exceeded 141 innings (and got hurt and missed a whole season because of it)

    Escobar said he wants to be a reliever because his shoulder is better suited for it.

    Sheets is also the best pitcher of this bunch. All of them are risky, but you might as well go for the best guy.

  76. The Phranchise December 19th, 2009 at 11:06 am

    Maybe you are right, don’t know. But I did see Holliday on the A’s. He never scares me when he comes up. Crawford though creates. I don’t think he steal 50 well into his 30s, but the guy is as fast as they come. He has AL experience. Rays would have to move Upton more than likely to pay Crawford and he will always know he didn’t get as much money as he could and be stuck with the SOx and Yankees in the division. The Rays will never be able to spend the money on the team to keep up. Crawford is a + defender in comparison to Holliday. Crawford has been relatively healthy over his career. I also am looking for a future leadoff hitter or 2 hole guy. They are very hard to come by, just ask the Red Sox. We will miss Damon more than we know. Jeter cannot be a leadoff guy forever and will slow down. Many outfielders can put up 20+ homers with 100 rbis in this lineup. I just don’t see how paying Holliday that much makes sense in comparison to other options given Tex and Arod are your 3 and 4 hitters for years. How many guys stole 60 bases last year? How many put up numbers similar to Holliday? I would say a lot less were like Crawford and a lot more like Holliday.

  77. Nud December 19th, 2009 at 11:07 am

    If Sheets is healthy then I definitely go with him but the Duke is also a very nice arm to have on your staff. I think it will be the Duke when it is all said and done!

    On another note-Just wanted to say it again, Brian Cashman is a very average GM. What good move has he ever made that didnt include large amounts of money…..So don’t say the Tex signing or the CC signing or even the Moose signing etc…..He trades for pitching have historically been a bust. The Swisher trade was very good. What else? Thoughts?

  78. tex's friend December 19th, 2009 at 11:08 am

    nevermind i misread. damon wanted 10 per yea, yankees wanted 7. maybe they could have met in the middle at 8.5? no matter, we have the 3rd highest OBP now, against worse pitching in the AL, he should be a good guy before tex and alex if he stays healthy.

    girardi: please dont play nick in rain EVER..

  79. Howard Cosell December 19th, 2009 at 11:08 am

    Exactly on Swish…….. the guy is not perfect. But you can’t have All Stars at every position. as the 6th-7th hitter he is ideal – 25-30 HR’s and he does it on the road too. And his fielding is not bad he hustles and his arm is average.

    I think people expect too much from the guy – 3 year deal for 27 HR’s 85-90 RBI’s great attitude, a guy that hustles and plays hurt etc. At 7-8mm per this is the move.

    Bedard – EXACTLY folks – only a one a year. BUT DO IT – these selfish/enigma type of players always do well when their contract is up. Sign him to a one year promise him the exposure of the Yankees and doing well and he can leave at the end of the year and pitch in KC on a decent size contract….

    HC

  80. Roger(live from Amsterdam) December 19th, 2009 at 11:09 am

    I would bing back Ponson.Because if you do win the world series,he’s gonne throw one hack of a party

  81. Doreen - Ain't it Just "Grand"? December 19th, 2009 at 11:09 am

    Off-topic -

    I couldn’t sleep last night, so I caught up on all the posts of the day/evening from yesterday.

    When I finally did fall asleep, I dreamt that Johnny Damon signed with the Red Sox.

    Talk about a nightmare! :)

  82. Rick December 19th, 2009 at 11:10 am

    Don’t know if Duke could survive as a starter in the AL East.

    I know he has had success before, but a mid 80s cutter/low 70 hook guy scares me.

    He is one of those guys who we watch him pitch and think we should crush him and when we look up at the scoreboard, it is the 7th inning and he has given up 1 run.

    Don’t know if he can perform the smoke and mirrors act as a starter in the AL East.

  83. Yankee Trader December 19th, 2009 at 11:10 am

    “Johnny] Damon said in a text message Friday that the Yankees had offered two years and $14 million, while he had offered to return for two years and $20 million. That was true, a Yankees official confirmed, but by then, the Yankees and Johnson had nearly finished their deal and it was too late to turn back.”

    ————————————————
    And another official said Damon/Boras only backed of on the years but not the 13 million per year. Damon’s slim chance now is if Johnson doesn’t pass his physical/

  84. tex's friend December 19th, 2009 at 11:11 am

    On another note-Just wanted to say it again, Brian Cashman is a very average GM. What good move has he ever made that didnt include large amounts of money…..So don’t say the Tex signing or the CC signing or even the Moose signing etc…..He trades for pitching have historically been a bust. The Swisher trade was very good. What else? Thoughts?

    ___

    in 1998, he took a gamble on Scott Brosius. That worked out. Traded in 2001 i think, for David Justice. That worked out.

    even smaller trades,like jose molina worked out. The granderson deal will likely be a good one.

    What more do you want?

    he has as good a track record as any GM.

  85. tex's friend December 19th, 2009 at 11:12 am

    Oh and Alex Rodriguez for Soriano +

    Roger Clemens for Greame Lloyd, Homer Bush and David Wells?

  86. mick December 19th, 2009 at 11:13 am

    Why would the Yankees , in this phase of “fiscal responsibility” go for a pitcher they don’t need now, for more money than they’re worth?

    Wait till mid -season and pick one up cheap as they always do or go with Gaudin.

  87. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 11:13 am

    I love GB and Pat M, but I don’t understand why they insist that every player has to be a run producer. I don’t believe they don’t love or value Jeter and Jeter is hardly an RBI man ……..that’s because he’s not supposed to be. He excels at his position and is a great hitter……..but he doesn’t hit a lot of HRs (though he hits a lot of big HRs) and he doesn’t drive in a lot of RBIs. Well, he’s a 1 or 2 hitter – we shouldn’t expect that, right? Plus, he doesn’t hit a lot of doubles or triples………..I’m not comparing NJ to Derek Jeter, but the point is NOT all players are thumpers. Why is NJ expected to be, just because he’s the DH?

    I love Matsui, but just because he’s in SoCal, his knees are going to become bionic?

  88. Mike December 19th, 2009 at 11:15 am

    That Justice trade was in 2000.

    He hit that monster 3Run HR off Rhodes in the ALCS.

  89. tex's friend December 19th, 2009 at 11:15 am

    i agree the yankees dont need to hit 300 homeruns.

    WHat a healthy NJ brings to the 2 spot is OBP. A healthy Tex and A-Rod may be in for HUGE RBI years in 2010.

  90. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 11:15 am

    If the Yanks can wait out Sheets (who wants to hold a BP session to show he’s healthy), then I suggest they bid aggressively for him. I know they love him…….but will he love pitching in the AL ? If he wants the easy way out, he’ll go back to the NL, but if he’s confident in his stuff and his health, he’ll pick the AL ( Yanks )because the potential rewards are so great.

    I don’t really want Deutscherer, who I think would have a hard time (to say the least) in the East.

  91. David in Cal December 19th, 2009 at 11:15 am

    I’m opposed to trading Nick Swisher. We lack a strong hitter at one corner outfield position. Let’s not go for two.

  92. tex's friend December 19th, 2009 at 11:16 am

    And remember, Nick did all of thagt against NL pitching, which is superior to AL pitching.

  93. John December 19th, 2009 at 11:17 am

    Johnson is compared to a thumper because he is replacing one. We have no #5 hitter, as Pat and CB have been saying, Johnson doesn’t help us with that.

  94. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 11:18 am

    The Yankees obviously did not see Wang as helping them in 2010, so why would they sign him to help them in 2010? They are looking for help for this year…………

    No Bedard – I don’t get why people would want a known jerk (to be kind) who isn’t even healthy (and won’t even pitch until at least May).

  95. Ralph K. December 19th, 2009 at 11:19 am

    mick,

    Which is why they will probably sign Duchester. He will be1\2 the cost of Sheets and provides us flexibility considering he can start or relieve.

    If we sign Sheets, he is definitely in the rotation. Duchester gives us options.

  96. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 11:20 am

    Piniero ? Marquis? Ok, the Yanks might as well sign me to pitch…….no thanks.

    John, no he’s not – he’s replacing the #2 hitter. CB has not been saying that, by the way……..We already have a terrific lineup of HR hitters

  97. Yankee Trader December 19th, 2009 at 11:20 am

    The Yankees are not trading Nick Swisher. The only scenario I could see that happening is if they somehow fit Holliday in their budget, and want to free up some money by trading Swisher who has a larger contract than Melky who is up for arbitration.

  98. 86w183 December 19th, 2009 at 11:20 am

    The idea of trading Swisher for Lowe doesn’t fly with me because Nick costs $ 18 Million less ($27 vs $ 45) over the next three years.

    Additionally, at 29 and coming off a career high OPS (.869) it’s safe to think Swisher’s best years are ahead of him. Lowe turns 37 in June, is coming off a 4.67 ERA in the NL and his best years are unquestionably behind him.

    the Yanks will not make a move that makes them older and more expensive

  99. Earl December 19th, 2009 at 11:21 am

    Johnson is a .273 career hitter and has a very uneven career. Seems to have one good year followed by a mediocre one. There is also a question of if his power will come back. Aside from 1 yr, he has never been a doubles machine either.

    He comes with questions, especially when is going to be our DH and replace a guy who was a .280/30/90 hitter.

  100. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 11:21 am

    LOL Why are people trying to trade Swisher? He’s not going anywhere……….

  101. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 11:22 am

    The Yankees never had Piniero………..

  102. Bill December 19th, 2009 at 11:24 am

    Jeter is a .317 career hitter and has above average speed and can steal 30 bases for you. His career OBP is .388 in the AL East too, which isin’t too shabby.

    NJ is a .273 career hitter with no speed.

  103. RS December 19th, 2009 at 11:25 am

    “Johnson is compared to a thumper because he is replacing one. We have no #5 hitter, as Pat and CB have been saying, Johnson doesn’t help us with that.”

    Granderson hit more HRs than Matsui in 2009, and that was while hitting in Comerica Park half his games.

    If Granderson hits 30 homeruns, and Johnson hits 15-20 (which he can in this park, with his wrist healed) than that nearly replaces the 50 HR Matsui and Damon hit last year. I also expect Arod to hit a few more bombs next year.

  104. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 11:25 am

    Chapman is not an option at all…..Cash already said so and all the other teams basically believe he’s a few years away.

    I don’t get the idea that there are AL or NL hitters. Pitchers? Yes. Hitters? No. To be fair to Holliday, Oakland is dreadful hitters park.

  105. CB December 19th, 2009 at 11:26 am

    Buster Olney is speculating that Johnny Damon would be a good fit in St. Louis were the Cards to not sign Holliday.

    I think that’s the first mention of Johnny possibly going to the Cards.

    Buster has said that the yankees are not interested in Holliday.

    But if Damon could fit with the Cards, where would Holliday be going?

  106. mick December 19th, 2009 at 11:26 am

    When, and if, for some inexplicable reason Johnson does not produce, he will be easier to sit down than a Guerrero or Thome, who come with massive egos.

    When we sit Nick, which is part of this plan, for DH’s such as Posada, Arod, Damon (?), etc…he will not complain.

    DH is the least of their worries. Pitching and LF come 1st.

  107. Bret the Hitman December 19th, 2009 at 11:27 am

    When Holliday signs, everyone here will be scratching his/her head wondering how the Yankees can afford to add a starting pitcher, even Bedard or Sheets. Neither would fit the budget after Holliday signs.

    Soon it will become clear that the Yankees and Brian Cashman are in the market for a young, cost controlled, proven frontline starter.

    The only way to improve the rotation is via trade.

    None of the free agent starters fit the budget.

    The ones that do are no match for Phil and Joba.

  108. D-Train December 19th, 2009 at 11:28 am

    His OBP is going to go down int his lineup. No pitcher is going to want to walk a singles hitter in NJ to face Teixieira and A-Rod.

    Pitchers are going to come right after him, it is going to be up to NJ to make them pay. It’s not like this guy is Ted Williams, he is a .273 hitter. Very uneven average in his career that varies.

  109. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 11:28 am

    Lowe …..on what basis is he better than he showed? He got drilled in the NL and if the Yankees wanted him, they would have signed him.

  110. mick December 19th, 2009 at 11:29 am

    Buster has said that the yankees are not interested in Holliday.
    ———————————————————-

    Would it be in anyone’s best interest for Cashman to leak that he is interested in Holliday?

    How would Buster know if Cash is at his stealthy best.

  111. Gold 98 December 19th, 2009 at 11:30 am

    If NJ is a bust or goes on the DL for 3 months after tripping over his shoe lace, you can always go out and find a bat.

    We are not married to NJ. If he doesn’t produce, he can easily be replaced by a team that has a bat that they want to get rid of in a salary dump. Look at Abreu in 2006.

  112. Yankee Trader December 19th, 2009 at 11:32 am

    The Braves only chance of unloading Lowe is if they eat half of his contract or take on another onerous contract in return, as he showed declining skills in the second half of the season on a team with a fine defensive infield.

  113. Joey Ramone December 19th, 2009 at 11:32 am

    If you’re ONLY looking for someone to be a durable innings eater, then Jon Garland should warrant consideration. He’ll give you 30 plus starts and 200 plus innings. Yes, he is flawed. He gives up too many hits, and his era has only been below 4 once in his career. However, he could easily win 15 games with this offense. Much like he did with LAA two seasons ago. Which would be very good for a #5…

    Obviously, if you’re looking for more than a #4/#5, then nobody on the market fits the bill outside of Sheets and Bedard. Both can’t really be relied upon at this point…

    Wang would be an obvious candidate, but I can’t imagine he would entertain re-signing with the Yanks…

  114. mick December 19th, 2009 at 11:32 am

    Bret the Hitman December 19th, 2009 at 11:27 am

    When Holliday signs,

    ————————————————–

    I’m with you on this one, Brett.
    The fact that Holliday is so under the radar makes it look a lot like the Tex pick-up.
    Since when has money been an obstacle for the Yankees?

  115. the gay Yankee fan December 19th, 2009 at 11:32 am

    I don’t think they need to sign another big name like Holliday.

    All good teams have an element of homegrown youth and not just the ones sitting on the bench either.

    Melky and Gardner provide that. During the lowest points in a seaon, it’s usually the youths that provide the spark that the veterans feed off.

    It happens every year.

  116. Frank December 19th, 2009 at 11:33 am

    “If the Yankees sign Sheets and he is healthy then our #4 is better than Boston’s #3.”

    But he’d also be better than the Yankees #3…and #2.

  117. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 11:33 am

    Damon in the NL, with no DH? Disaster……..well, maybe not disaster, but that is a bad idea for both the Cards and Damon.

  118. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 11:36 am

    Since Hal took over……..He’s not George. He spent more than he would like to last year because he realized that the Yanks desperately needed to make some big moves (and then, after that, Cash had to get on his knees to convince him about Tex). Hal is by no means cheap, but he’s not going to spend $$$ like his father did.

  119. mick December 19th, 2009 at 11:36 am

    Gay

    Holliday is the real deal. He would fit here well amongst players as good or better than him, no pressure.

    It seems so obvious, Damon is unwanted because of Holliday, IMO.

  120. Rich in NJ December 19th, 2009 at 11:38 am

    The problem is that Sheets and Duchschere would probably bump Hughes or Joba out of the rotation, so I don’t want either one.

    I’d rather sign Chapman to build up the upper levels of the farm, and stay in house.

  121. jpb1973 December 19th, 2009 at 11:39 am

    …Since when has money been an obstacle for the Yankees?

    —————————————————-

    Mick,
    Ever since Hal Steinbrenner took over the reigns.

  122. mick December 19th, 2009 at 11:39 am

    Betsy, you don’t think there are creative negotiations going on right now for Holliday?

    With Damon and Matsui off the books and a possible backloaded deal for Matt, they can’t stay close to their “budget?”

  123. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2009 at 11:39 am

    Justin Duchscherer wouldn’t be my first choice for the Yankee rotation, but, enough with the BS claims that he gets hammered in the AL East. His numbers are a 1.83 ERA against Boston in 15 games/2 starts, 2.78 against Baltimore in 9 games/2 starts, 3.68 against NYY in 9 games/2 starts, 1.48 against Tampa in 19 games/1 start and 3.09 against Toronto in 11 games/1 start.

  124. Bret the Hitman December 19th, 2009 at 11:41 am

    Once Holliday signs, the Yankees can trade either Swisher or Melky.

    But if the Yankees are looking to make up for another big financial commitment to a position player (Holliday), then they’ll probably need to include Melky in a package for a cost-effective frontline starter. If the Yankees can get a frontline pitcher with a low salary, they’re saving more money long-term than they would by dealing Swisher’s contract.

    My thinking is they’re gonna spend big on offense(Holliday) and balance their payroll by bringing in an inexpensive top of the rotation starter.

  125. EdWhitson December 19th, 2009 at 11:42 am

    I’m sure last year Olney said the Yankees were not into Tex too. How did that work out?

    As someone said, how is it in the Yankees interest at all to telegraph their moves ? Please answer that. So, some other team can bid them up. Yup, good strategy.

  126. mick December 19th, 2009 at 11:42 am

    jpb1973 December 19th, 2009 at 11:39 am

    …Since when has money been an obstacle for the Yankees?

    —————————————————-

    Mick,
    Ever since Hal Steinbrenner took over the reigns.
    —————————————————
    Hal is just smarter than George. He is not giving it away and letting agents (Boras) use the Yankees to up the ante or making us overpay because we can. He’s just trying to get players at the fair price, not being stingy.

  127. The Phranchise December 19th, 2009 at 11:43 am

    I don’t think money necessarily is the factor, but look at how the Yankees now operate.

    For the right guy, money won’t be a factor = Tex.

    They will not overspend anymore to bring guys to NY. They have built a core group of great players with good character that people want to play with. They will spend their money wisely. And they won’t overspend anymore to keep their own players like Damon this year. It’s a change from the past. They will spend when needed, but the key is their gun will always be fully loaded unlike in the past. Weather they need to make a deal with prospects which they have, money which they have, etc. A few years back they were overpaying guys to come here, some mediocre talent and they couldn’t compete in trades as they didn’t have the chips. All they could do was eat salary. Now they are much more stream lined and in much better shape than the Sox to pay guys or make a trade as they have more trade chips. One more big deal and the Sox minor leagues are whiped out, which is why the Sox are reluctant to move these guys, they knwo it to.

  128. upstate kate December 19th, 2009 at 11:44 am

    GB7
    Did they let you out? Or at least give you a better looking nurse?

  129. Bret the Hitman December 19th, 2009 at 11:44 am

    Rich in NJ
    December 19th, 2009 at 11:38 am
    The problem is that Sheets and Duchschere would probably bump Hughes or Joba out of the rotation, so I don’t want either one.

    Sheets doesn’t fit the budget once Holliday signs here.

    And there’s no way in bloody hell Hughes and Joba would be demoted from the rotation due to Justin Duchscherer.

  130. GeorgeInJax December 19th, 2009 at 11:44 am

    With the organization hanging on to Phil & Joba & refusing trades, it signifies to me their commitment to developing them as starters. We are beyond the 2008 experiment of Hughes & Kennedy. Both Joba & Phil are ready to step up & be starters.

    Alfredo Aceves, Sergio Mitre, Ivan Nova and Zach McAllister provide depth.

    Spring Training Competition will be interesting to follow.

    Ben Sheets might be a good addition, but he’d have to prove he is healthy. Same would go for Wang when he’s ready to pitch.

  131. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2009 at 11:45 am

    Betsy, a run producer both scores and drives in runs. NYY needs a big bat hitting behind Rodriguez and Posada won’t play more than 120 games. Swisher is not the answer and neither is Johnson. The hitter behind Rodriguez needs a bat that scares pitchers.

  132. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 11:46 am

    No Mick, I don’t…….

    Just because the Yankees were stealth with Tex does not mean that they are “in” on every player that there is no buzz about. Sometimes a rose is just a rose………In other words, what you see is what you get. I would be shocked if the Yankees signed Holliday.

    As to pitching, I want to sign Chapman – I think the Yanks need to do that – but that is independent of getting another pitcher.

    I think Phil will pitch like a # 5 pitcher this year – he’ll have his good and bad days – but he’ll eventually be just terrific. It’s fine for him to pitch like that. It’s Joba that worries me. I have NO idea what to expect from him…..and since Andy is going to give us #4 numbers from a #3 spot, there are serious ? about the rotation.

  133. upstate kate December 19th, 2009 at 11:48 am

    I hope Joba and Phil get the opportunity to start this year. They both have too much potential not to get a chance. If either struggles, they can return to the pen.

  134. The Phranchise December 19th, 2009 at 11:48 am

    the hitter behind Arod we allbhope i guess is montero if he turns out to be the miguel cabrera natural type phenom we hope he turns out to be.

    To be honest by biggest concern is the leadoff spot. Jeter is getting older and without Damon they will need a guy going forward. No one has stepped up there and the Sox have been looking to replace Damon for years. Leadoff hitters are hard to come by.

  135. mick December 19th, 2009 at 11:48 am

    That is another issue.
    Why bring in some overpriced FA pitcher to possibly push Hughes or Joba out of the rotation.
    What is the point of bringing someone in now, when you can get him for 1/2 price or less at mid-season?
    Esp. when you have pitchers on your own staff who could fit in such as Gaudin.

  136. JK December 19th, 2009 at 11:49 am

    I sign Duch or Escobar. You start either one for 2 months, then move Hughes back into the rotation for the rest of the season.

  137. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2009 at 11:49 am

    upstate kate
    December 19th, 2009 at 11:44 am
    GB7
    Did they let you out? Or at least give you a better looking nurse?

    ————————————————————

    Kate, my pardon hasn’t come through, yet, so, I’m breaking out of this can tomorrow. I got to get away from Warden Karloff. She scares me to death every time I hear her dragging that size 18 hoof down the hallway.

  138. DaSaint007 December 19th, 2009 at 11:49 am

    Brandon Morrow for Juan Miranda is a fair offer. Miranda is a power lefty bat that plays 1B/DH. I posted that scenario yesterday.

    For all those who say that Carl Crawford is going to resign with the Rays because he ‘likes it there’ – you don’t understand free agency. Damon liked it here too. So did Matsui. Did they offer to stay on the cheap? No, and neither will Crawford. Holliday may be better, but Crawford will be excellent in this team fabric and more affordable. Will he steal 50 based in his 30′s? Who knows. Does Damon? Does Jeter? Who does? Doesn’t matter, he’ll still be stealing 30+ and that’s better than most.

    As far as pitching goes, I’d propose resigning Wang for late season rotation help, signing Bedard as his stuff is still good and he’s an AL East proven lefty, and obtaining Morrow for the bullpen.

  139. jpb1973 December 19th, 2009 at 11:50 am

    Mick,
    Ever since Hal Steinbrenner took over the reigns.
    —————————————————
    Hal is just smarter than George. He is not giving it away and letting agents (Boras) use the Yankees to up the ante or making us overpay because we can. He’s just trying to get players at the fair price, not being stingy.

    =======================================================

    Hal also knows that the Yankees are responsible for paying off the capital for the New Yankee Stadium. Until the Stadium is payed down to a reasonable level, money will be an obstacle.

  140. mick December 19th, 2009 at 11:51 am

    rose………In other words, what you see is what you get. I would be shocked if the Yankees signed Holliday.
    ——————————————————-
    Betsy,
    I just don’t understand why. He seems like the perfect fit here. He would protect Arod. Is it the money?

  141. mick December 19th, 2009 at 11:53 am

    Hal also knows that the Yankees are responsible for paying off the capital for the New Yankee Stadium. Until the Stadium is payed down to a reasonable level, money will be an obstacle.
    ———————————————-
    They print money in the basement of Yankee Stadium.
    Please. This is all a business strategy.

  142. RS December 19th, 2009 at 11:53 am

    “He comes with questions, especially when is going to be our DH and replace a guy who was a .280/30/90 hitter.”

    He’s not being asked to replace that. That’s Granderson’s job (if he bats fifth). All Johnson has to worry about is scoring 100 runs, and if he continues to get on base at a .400 clip, that’ll be easy as pie.

  143. Frank December 19th, 2009 at 11:53 am

    “My thinking is they’re gonna spend big on offense(Holliday) and balance their payroll by bringing in an inexpensive top of the rotation starter.”

    I;m sure this is not news, but Melky doesn’t fetch you a cost effective frontline starter. He’s a throw in with guys like Montero and Hughes. Beyond that, there’s been much discussion on how Cashman doesn’t like to pay twice. Let’s use the ever present Josh Johnson as an example. Marlins have already turned down Feliz/Smoak for Johnson. Hughes/Montero is a fractionally better package than that and if Melky were thrown in, that maybe tips the scale. Now, the Yankees would have Johnson at pretty reasonable money for at least a year, maybe two. But then he starts making real money, which the Yankees will likely pay. But still, isn’t that awfully close to paying twice?

  144. Tom on N.J. December 19th, 2009 at 11:53 am

    Seattle has there own Juan Miranda in Mike Carp.

  145. Bret the Hitman December 19th, 2009 at 11:54 am

    Melky doesn’t fetch you a cost effective frontline starter.

    Please re-read my post.

  146. Bret the Hitman December 19th, 2009 at 11:56 am

    Now, the Yankees would have Johnson at pretty reasonable money for at least a year, maybe two. But then he starts making real money, which the Yankees will likely pay. But still, isn’t that awfully close to paying twice?

    Not really because Johnson won’t be getting a Santana or Halladay level extension. He’ll get one similar to the one the Red Sox gave Josh Beckett.

  147. upstate kate December 19th, 2009 at 11:56 am

    GB7
    glad to hear you are getting out tomorrow…just hide from Nurse Karloff in the meantime.

  148. The Phranchise December 19th, 2009 at 11:56 am

    And I know most will hate this. But I would move Swisher if possible for prospects or a bullpen arm. I sign Dye for a one year Abreu-type $5 mill deal. He is a better defender than Swish and at least has an arm out there. You pick up a 25+ home run guy from the right side. He protects Arod. He is a one year deal, nothing more. Where Granderson can’t hit lefties, Dye is a career .300 hitter against lefties. Then when Dye leaves you see if Montero plays the OF or catches. If Mauer somehow makes it to free agency you throw Mauer the money, move Montero to the OF or you use Montero to bring you in a young stud OF who you have contract control over. and i don’t like dye but the yankees championship teams brought similar players like him all the time because he isn’t one of your core players or a piece of the future. and i will know most would hate this move, but i think it makes sense this year and going forward

  149. Matt December 19th, 2009 at 11:57 am

    Once Holliday signs, the Yankees can trade either Swisher or Melky.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Why ? What impact has Brett Gardner provided ? He has speed but in only a handfull of games has he shown that he can help the team. Not a threat with a bat in his hands. Hasn’t taken advantage of bunting as helping his cause. Gets bad reads on flyballs.
    He could have a battle on his hands if Hoffmann shows anything in the spring.

  150. Warden Karloff December 19th, 2009 at 11:57 am

    I only wear a size 15 1/2!

  151. Kyle Y December 19th, 2009 at 11:59 am

    Why don’t we sign Pedro to a 1-year deal, just for fun? I mean, Don Zimmer isn’t with our organization anymore. We should be fine.

  152. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2009 at 12:00 pm

    RS
    December 19th, 2009 at 11:53 am
    “He comes with questions, especially when is going to be our DH and replace a guy who was a .280/30/90 hitter.”

    He’s not being asked to replace that. That’s Granderson’s job (if he bats fifth). All Johnson has to worry about is scoring 100 runs, and if he continues to get on base at a .400 clip, that’ll be easy as pie.

    ————————————————————

    You’re forgetting one thing. It would help if he could stay on the field more than 90 games a year.

  153. Rich in NJ December 19th, 2009 at 12:00 pm

    “Why ? What impact has Brett Gardner provided ?”

    If nothing else, Gardner’s contract is more cost effective, which will also make him more marketable.

  154. Bret the Hitman December 19th, 2009 at 12:01 pm

    Matt
    December 19th, 2009 at 11:57 am
    Once Holliday signs, the Yankees can trade either Swisher or Melky.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Why ? What impact has Brett Gardner provided ?

    If Holliday signs, Melky is the 4th OF.

    FanGraphas valued him at 7.2 million as a CF in 2009.

    His trade value could help the Yankees bring back more than his worth as a bench player.

    Hoffman is a better defender.

    Gardner is faster.

    Melky won’t be pinch hitting for anyone from the bench so you won’t need his defense, speed nor offense.

  155. RS December 19th, 2009 at 12:02 pm

    “You’re forgetting one thing. It would help if he could stay on the field more than 90 games a year.”

    I think being a DH will help that cause.

  156. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2009 at 12:03 pm

    upstate kate
    December 19th, 2009 at 11:56 am
    GB7
    glad to hear you are getting out tomorrow…just hide from Nurse Karloff in the meantime.

    ————————————————————

    She scares everybody here. When we hear “Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum”, everybody starts whimpering and shaking.

  157. Frank December 19th, 2009 at 12:03 pm

    Brett:

    I know you were not saying “let’s trade Melky for a front line starter”.

  158. DaSaint007 December 19th, 2009 at 12:04 pm

    For all those who think that the Yankees print money, understand that while they generate signficant revenue, that is different from profit, which is what all business owners care about.

    The debt service on a $1.6 billion staduim is over $100 million per year. That does factor into all major financial decisions including payroll.

    In the current fiscal climate, a contract for an extra $20 million/year does matter.

    There will be no Holliday this Holiday.

  159. Rich in NJ December 19th, 2009 at 12:04 pm

    “Sheets doesn’t fit the budget once Holliday signs here.

    And there’s no way in bloody hell Hughes and Joba would be demoted from the rotation due to Justin Duchscherer.”

    I still view Holliday as if not when.

    Sheets’s current asking price is delusional. I think
    it will come way down.

    Duchscherer ERA+ in 2008 was 163 in 141.2 IP. So I think you are mistaken that it is out of the question.

  160. Bret the Hitman December 19th, 2009 at 12:04 pm

    Frank
    December 19th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
    Brett:

    I know you were not saying “let’s trade Melky for a front line starter”.

    k, wasn’t sure ;)

  161. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2009 at 12:05 pm

    RS
    December 19th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
    “You’re forgetting one thing. It would help if he could stay on the field more than 90 games a year.”

    I think being a DH will help that cause.

    ————————————————————

    Really? It sure as Hell didn’t help him much in his first 3 years in NYY.

  162. Rich in NJ December 19th, 2009 at 12:05 pm

    “FanGraphas valued him at 7.2 million as a CF in 2009.”

    Those values, which question, are team specific.

  163. GeorgeInJax December 19th, 2009 at 12:08 pm

    The posts here seem to revolve around picking up one hired gun after another. Last years team came together and melded with the efforts of Swiaher, Melky, Cervelli, Gardner, & Pena.

    How could you not see the elation of the team when Melky hit his multiple walk offs.

    Trying to bring in a hired gun is a strategy that hasn’t worked for the Yankees before & will not work now.

    The Mets have been trying it (trading their prospects)& see how well its working for them now.

  164. jpb1973 December 19th, 2009 at 12:10 pm

    They print money in the basement of Yankee Stadium.
    Please. This is all a business strategy.

    ——————————————————-

    If they truly printed money in the basement of Yankee Stadium than both CC Sabathia and Johan Sanatana would be wearing pinstripes today…but unfortunately they don’t print money in Yankee Stadium so the Yankees had to choose Sabathia instead of Santana. Just as they will be forced to decide between Matt Holliday and Carl Crawford…and that will make Matt Holliday a St. Louis Cardinal.

  165. mick December 19th, 2009 at 12:10 pm

    The Yankees made us an offer [Thursday] at 4 o’clock and we responded at 4:30 and they told us that Johnny just didn’t fit in their budget,” Boras told the Associated Press.

    Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....z0a9hdH7TE
    ———————————————————
    Fit into their budget? Sounds like they don’t want Johnny back. Could the reason be Matt Holliday?

  166. Will December 19th, 2009 at 12:10 pm

    I agree with GeorgeInJax.
    you don’t always need a hired gun to make a team mesh.
    the yankees have enough big sluggers and solid arms to be a threat without breaking the bank on more big names

  167. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2009 at 12:12 pm

    GeorgeInJax
    December 19th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
    The posts here seem to revolve around picking up one hired gun after another. Last years team came together and melded with the efforts of Swiaher, Melky, Cervelli, Gardner, & Pena.

    How could you not see the elation of the team when Melky hit his multiple walk offs.

    Trying to bring in a hired gun is a strategy that hasn’t worked for the Yankees before & will not work now.

    The Mets have been trying it (trading their prospects)& see how well its working for them now.

    ———————————————————–

    It worked pretty effectively in 2009.

  168. GeorgeInJax December 19th, 2009 at 12:12 pm

    Swisher is not the greatest statistical player (not bad either!) but he is a GAMER and adds a huge spark to our team.

    Our team is already much improved offensively & defensively.

    Damon & Matsui production/defense vs Granderson & Johnson production/defense.

    No contest!!

  169. Bret the Hitman December 19th, 2009 at 12:12 pm

    Duchscherer ERA+ in 2008 was 163 in 141.2 IP. So I think you are mistaken that it is out of the question.

    That’s fine. He missed 2009 though and he’s 32. He battled depression, shoulder and back injuries. I’m not sure I’d spend money on him AND demote Joba or Phil to give him a spot.

  170. Rich in NJ December 19th, 2009 at 12:12 pm

    “Last years team came together and melded with the efforts of Swiaher, Melky, Cervelli, Gardner, & Pena.”

    Support players are only valuable when a team has a strong core. So but for CC, Teix, Jeter, and A-Rod, no on would care what those other players did.

    I think what has changed since Cash has gained full power, is that he goes after the “right people” like CC, AJ, and Teix, rather than Randy Johnson or Sheffield, who he was opposed to acquiring.

    The real issue is this: Is there a homegrown player ready to step in and play at a high level. No such player exists in the OF.

    But as I said above, I want Phil and Joba to be the 4th and 5th starters because of their respective ceilings.

    So it’s not about a hired gun per se. It’s about quality players and character guys, and the right mix.

  171. The Bronx Blogger December 19th, 2009 at 12:13 pm

    I don’t think we should assume just because we won’t go after Matt Holliday this offseason (assuming we don’t, you never know), that Carl Crawford would be in pinstripes next year.

  172. mick December 19th, 2009 at 12:13 pm

    If they truly printed money in the basement of Yankee Stadium than both CC Sabathia and Johan Sanatana would be wearing pinstripes today…but unfortunately they don’t print money in Yankee Stadium so the Yankees had to choose Sabathia instead of Santana. Just as they will be forced to decide between Matt Holliday and Carl Crawford…and that will make Matt Holliday a St. Louis Cardinal.
    ——————————————–
    Money wasn’t the issue with Santana, players were.
    And yes, the Yankees make mucho money, don’t buy their hype.
    When Holliday signs I will look for your retraction. :)

  173. Rich in NJ December 19th, 2009 at 12:13 pm

    “That’s fine. He missed 2009 though and he’s 32. He battled depression, shoulder and back injuries. I’m not sure I’d spend money on him AND demote Joba or Phil to give him a spot.”

    As I said, I don’t want him, but to think that there is no way that he could win a spot in the rotation, is wrong, imo. Cash has said that Gaudin could win a spot.

  174. Bret the Hitman December 19th, 2009 at 12:15 pm

    Rich in NJ
    December 19th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
    “FanGraphas valued him at 7.2 million as a CF in 2009.”

    Those values, which question, are team specific.

    Even if you slash his value in half, he’s still a bargain in CF for most teams in MLB.

  175. GeorgeInJax December 19th, 2009 at 12:15 pm

    remember that Nick Johnson was in the lineup of one of MLB’s worst teams. His #’s will be better with the Yanks

  176. Bret the Hitman December 19th, 2009 at 12:15 pm

    Cash has said that Gaudin could win a spot.

    C’mon Rich. Seriously.

  177. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2009 at 12:16 pm

    Peoplw may think that the AL East is a 2 horse race, but, Baltimore has the makings of a really nice team, especially if that young rotation comes around. Toronto’s hopes are pinned on their rotation returning to health. Repeating in 2010 will be war.

  178. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 12:16 pm

    Wang is coming back from shoulder surgery and we’re going to depend on him for help? The Yankees want SP help now, not months from now…….and even if he comes back, who’s to say he’s even going to be effective?

    Mick, yes it’s the $$$. Also, why do you think the Yankees could get help at the trading deadline? Didn’t you see what happened last year? Teams will demand JOba or Hughes for some mediocre pitcher…..or Montero, also. They are not going to help the Yankees. At this point, I have given up on ever getting good deals done (trades, I mean) at the deadline.

  179. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 12:17 pm

    Anyone else on the East Coast? We’re going to get some storm today – close to 15 inches of snow. Ick.

  180. gianthinker December 19th, 2009 at 12:18 pm

    I’ve been talking about this for weeks. The Yankees need to target Ben Sheets and be willing to give him anywhere from a 1 to 3 year deal to finish off our rotation. The guy is one of the better guys in baseball and has ace stuff. Then, once Sheets is signed, Duchscherer would be a great guy to bring in for the pen. His starting numbers were impressive but thats a small sample size and with his health history the pen would be a better spot for him. I wouldn’t worry about Duchscherer until I locked Sheets up though.

  181. Rich in NJ December 19th, 2009 at 12:19 pm

    “C’mon Rich. Seriously.”

    He said it again with Kay yesterday. They think that Eiland has fixed his slider. Again, I said “could.”

    I want Phil and Joba to start (unless there is an issue with Joba’s shoulder that makes relieving better for his health going forward).

    From Cash’s public comments, that doesn’t seem like a sure thing.

  182. G. Love December 19th, 2009 at 12:20 pm

    I put Sheets first, Bedard 2nd and the rest of the field I steer clear of.

    If the Yankees don’t sign one of the two above, they might as well go into the spring and let Joba, Phil, Gaudin and Aceves fight it out for the last 2 spots.

    I don’t think any of the other available pitchers are worth the effort of signing.

    As for Holliday coming here, I don’t know what to think anymore. I go from thinking that if you read between the lines we’re in on him to thinking that Cashman and Hal are not going to want to pay him and want this sub 200 million payroll.

    Right now, as it stands, we’re only roughly 20 million above Boston’s payroll. Maybe less.

    I’m wondering if Cash and Hal want to stay closer to Boston money wise to stop the attacks that the Yankees go nuts with payroll and Boston is sensible.

    That’d be a pretty dumb way to run a team in my opinion, but who knows.

    Right now though, this is the closest we’ve ever to been to Boston payroll wise in quite some time.

    If the Yankees don’t add any more significant dollars, the Gammons NESPN argument about the money advantage we have starts to go out the window.

    Personally, I’d rather sign a good SP and Holliday and beat Boston’s brains in then try to match them money wise.

  183. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 19th, 2009 at 12:20 pm

    Doreen – Ain’t it Just “Grand”?
    December 19th, 2009 at 11:09 am
    Off-topic -

    I couldn’t sleep last night, so I caught up on all the posts of the day/evening from yesterday.

    When I finally did fall asleep, I dreamt that Johnny Damon signed with the Red Sox.

    Talk about a nightmare!

    ******

    Yours is worse than mine. I dreamt last night he signed with the Giants

  184. jpb1973 December 19th, 2009 at 12:21 pm

    The Yankees made us an offer [Thursday] at 4 o’clock and we responded at 4:30 and they told us that Johnny just didn’t fit in their budget,” Boras told the Associated Press.

    Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports…..z0a9hdH7TE
    ———————————————————
    Fit into their budget? Sounds like they don’t want Johnny back. Could the reason be Matt Holliday?

    ========================================================

    The offer the Yankees made was 2 years at $14 million…the offer that Damon made was 2 years at $20 million. Cashman has said that he has afidure in mind for damon and that was 2 years at $14 million. He didn’t exceed that for Nick Johnson.

    The difference between $14 million and $20 million isn’t enough to bring in Matt Hollday. We are going with Melky in LF and will spend a few buck$ on another pitcher.

    The Yankees will save some money for the trade deadline (when rentals are available) and for next year’s free agent class. Cashman and Hal have to be wise with their money.

  185. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 19th, 2009 at 12:21 pm

    Doreen – Ain’t it Just “Grand”?
    December 19th, 2009 at 11:09 am
    Off-topic -

    I couldn’t sleep last night, so I caught up on all the posts of the day/evening from yesterday.

    When I finally did fall asleep, I dreamt that Johnny Damon signed with the Red Sox.

    Talk about a nightmare!

    *******

    I am in denial. It snows every year on my birthday. I refuse to cancel my plans yet

  186. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 12:21 pm

    GB, Baltimore is not contending for a division title in 2010. They have talent, but the organization was very concerned about how they completely collapsed the last part of the season. What makes the AL East so tough is that the worst teams DO have talent – that I agree with. The Jays have good young pitching as well……..

  187. Rich in NJ December 19th, 2009 at 12:22 pm

    “Aceves fight it out for the last 2 spots”

    There is a guy I would look to trade before he becomes totally exposed as a result of his flyball tendencies.

  188. mick December 19th, 2009 at 12:22 pm

    Wang is coming back from shoulder surgery and we’re going to depend on him for help? The Yankees want SP help now, not months from now…….and even if he comes back, who’s to say he’s even going to be effective?

    ——————————-
    betsy…why do we need pitching help now? better a #5 hitter to protect arod, no?

    we have enough money for holliday and when he signs there will be great surprise as there was for tex. it is quiet because they are looking to get the best deal possible.

    why haven’t the cards signed him yet? same reason. it’s us against them, how badly we want each other is the issue.

  189. Rich in NJ December 19th, 2009 at 12:23 pm

    Erica

    “It snows every year on my birthday.”

    If today’s your birthday, I hope it’s a good one.

  190. Matt December 19th, 2009 at 12:24 pm

    Maybe this will help get over the snowstorm ……

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzQmHkI3sLg

  191. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 19th, 2009 at 12:24 pm

    Rich in NJ
    December 19th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
    Erica

    “It snows every year on my birthday.”

    If today’s your birthday, I hope it’s a good one.

    *******

    It is indeed. Thanks Rich :-)

  192. ArodMVP217 December 19th, 2009 at 12:25 pm

    sheets is too m uch of a FU to Phil, though..

  193. jpb1973 December 19th, 2009 at 12:26 pm

    Money wasn’t the issue with Santana, players were.
    And yes, the Yankees make mucho money, don’t buy their hype.
    When Holliday signs I will look for your retraction.

    ————————————————-

    The players were an issue because those players (Hughes, Chamberlain and Jackson) would be very cost effective fits for the Yankees. Jackson was included in the deal for Granderson because Garnderson’s contract, although pricey for a cash strapped Tiger team, was too good for the Yankees to pass up.

    No retraction will be needed when Holliday signs with the Cards…the Yankees are simply not going to waste their money on him…better talent is avaialble in next year’s FA class.

  194. upstate kate December 19th, 2009 at 12:26 pm

    Happy Birthday Erica
    Hope you get your birthday wish, altho it seems unlikely :(

  195. Erin December 19th, 2009 at 12:26 pm

    Erica, Happy Birthday!! :D

    http://image.lyricspond.com/im.....-cover.jpg

  196. mick December 19th, 2009 at 12:26 pm

    The difference between $14 million and $20 million isn’t enough to bring in Matt Hollday. We are going with Melky in LF and will spend a few buck$ on another pitcher.

    The Yankees will save some money for the trade deadline (when rentals are available) and for next year’s free agent class. Cashman and Hal have to be wise with their money.
    ————————————————-
    They made Johnny an offer he had to refuse ala Joe Torre because they are holding out for Holliday.

    Yes, the pursestrings are tight. Don’t buy the hype. Boras knows it too but will do all he can to get Matt here.

  197. MaineYankee December 19th, 2009 at 12:27 pm

    Erica

    Happy Birthday.

    Unfortunately for you it looks like you are going to be a gift short. :lol:

  198. The Phranchise December 19th, 2009 at 12:27 pm

    Just as a side note though and keep this in mind. We want to win the division and I still think we can without any more moves. The Sox have plenty of issues themselves. Including a huge one in depending on production from Ortiz and losing Bay for Mike Cameron. But the Yankees if you concede don’t win the division for some reason, they are bar far the best team for the wild card. Mariners probably take that divison now, the central beats itself up with mediocrity. At the end of the day this team, as is, should make the playoffs. So if you look at needs from this past postseason. It was the reliance on the top 3 in the rotation. Either internally or externally as Cashman has stated, the next move has to be for pitching. And I love both Joba and Hughes longterm, but you never leave that up to chance at their ages, let them prove your wrong and pat them on the back afterwards. And like the Sox last year, it is difficult to rely on depth from injured guys like Smoltz (all we heard was their pitching depth going into last year – didn’t work out). And we have to be realistic. Andy, AJ and CC were healthy for a full year. Andy at his age always has to be a concern. They have to add a solid starter and if it is a Sheets, have a good certainty on a backup plan. At the end of the day if you can make a big trade possibly having to give up Montero and more to land a Josh Johnson. That’s what will put them over the top this year and going forward.

  199. Bret the Hitman December 19th, 2009 at 12:28 pm

    I want Phil and Joba to start (unless there is an issue with Joba’s shoulder that makes relieving better for his health going forward).

    From Cash’s public comments, that doesn’t seem like a sure thing.

    —-

    Definitely not a sure thing which is why I understand why Cashman would spend money on a question mark just to address 2 other question marks.

    His public remarks about the rotation are as misleading as his statements about wanting a revolving DH situation or a DH who could play the field.

    Obviously, he planned to sign Nick Johnson which contradicted everything he said about that situation.

    Is he really intereste in Sheets or Duke because he talked to their agents? I don’t think so. He talks to every agent and GM, to keep us all guessing. It’s smart.

    Does he really want Joba and Hughes competing for a rotation spot? Probably not if he can use one of them to acquire a more proven starter.

    He can keep both and groom them and wait patiently for them to develop further or he can go for the kill and make a big impact trade for a starter.

    He’s constantly reminding other GM’s that he has options.

    In any given trade discussion, I bet he mentions other teams calling about the same names mentioned in those talks. It’s never a thing where the Yankees are pushing prospects on other teams. He lets other teams no that the Yankees have desireable assets.

    Gaudin is an option. That’s all.

    Melky in LF is an option.

    But I’m sure he prefers a legit number 2 starter for the rotation and a LF like Holliday.

  200. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 12:28 pm

    GLove, I think the Yankees care way too much about what people think about payroll. Even Hal has said that Cashman cares almost as much, or more, than he does. Why? Maybe he’s stung by the fact that he never gets any credit because of the Yankees payroll? Maybe he wants to prove he can do it with less? I think it’s absolutely asinine myself- I’m not suggesting they burn $$, but Cash almost seems to think that spending $$$ is a bad thing. I hate, no DESPISE, the idea that the Yankees are so thin-skinned about stuff like this.

  201. mick December 19th, 2009 at 12:29 pm

    No retraction will be needed when Holliday signs with the Cards…the Yankees are simply not going to waste their money on him…better talent is avaialble in next year’s FA class.
    —————————————————–
    If it’s Crawford you’re speaking of, I would rather have Holliday in the 5 hole behind Arod.

  202. Fran (the original) and OPPC member December 19th, 2009 at 12:29 pm

    Erica,
    Happy Birthday! They keep upping the snow totals so I don’t think you are going to avoid it. I am in Queens and just heard up to 14 inches expected. I hope that they are wrong.

  203. Phil December 19th, 2009 at 12:29 pm

    Day after Christmas will be the 90th anniversary of the Day the Yanks got Babe Ruth. December 26, 1919. Yanks are tough during Christmas week.

  204. Alex Anthropologist December 19th, 2009 at 12:29 pm

    Damon would’ve been unhappy if he came back at a reduced priced that’s been his way of handling situations throughout his career. For instance, Look at him coming to camp several years ago, out-of-physical shape. Whenever the situation doesn’t seem to befit him, he seems to always handle it incorrectly.
    The yankees did the best thing, IMO.
    Letting him go early.

  205. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2009 at 12:30 pm

    Betsy – high on pie
    December 19th, 2009 at 12:21 pm
    GB, Baltimore is not contending for a division title in 2010. They have talent, but the organization was very concerned about how they completely collapsed the last part of the season. What makes the AL East so tough is that the worst teams DO have talent – that I agree with. The Jays have good young pitching as well……..

    ————————————————————

    I didn’t say that Baltimore was going to contend. I said that with the players and changes they made, they would be a tough team to play, as will the other 4 division teams.

  206. NYY626 December 19th, 2009 at 12:30 pm

    Happy Birthday Erica!!

    For your birthday I hope that

    a) the yankees work out some miracle with Johnny :)
    b) the snow isnt bad enough to ruin your celebrations!

  207. Bret the Hitman December 19th, 2009 at 12:31 pm

    edit: ‘don’t’ understand why Cashman would spend money on a question mark just to address 2 other question marks.

  208. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 12:32 pm

    Matt, thanks! Oh man – I love the ocean and looking at that video makes me want to cry, lol. I think snow is actually beautiful, but this is going to be a real blizzard. The only nice thing about it is that snow is quiet as opposed to a rainstorm – I hate the sound of heavy rain.

  209. jpb1973 December 19th, 2009 at 12:32 pm

    Yes, the pursestrings are tight. Don’t buy the hype. Boras knows it too but will do all he can to get Matt here.

    ————————————————–

    The Yankees will hold onto the money this year and save it for next year’s free agents. Holliday simply isn’t good enough considering that better value will be available next year. The Yankees can’t afford to take the best player in EVERY free agent class anymore…they’ve got to be more selective.

  210. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 12:33 pm

    Rich, I’m not sure I’d trade Aceves, but I’m down on him as well. Maybe not as much as you are, but I did not like what I saw the last half of the season…….He’s hardly reliable at this point.

  211. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 19th, 2009 at 12:35 pm

    I do not think 2 years at 14 million is an offer Damon has to refuse. That was Cash’s first offer but I do not think he valued Damon at any more than 8 million a year. And it is hard to argue that is no his true value in this market.

    Cameron an elite defensive CF got 7.5 million
    Abreu who is going to be a full time RF next season got 9 million

    Hideki Matsui, the best DH is baseball last year got 6.5 million
    NJ got 5.5 million

    Damon is not much more than a DH at this point so he can not be paid as a full time LF. He should be paid something between Matsui/NJ and Cameron/Abreu.

  212. Erin December 19th, 2009 at 12:35 pm

    GB, glad to see you get to escape tomorrow! I still say those nurses are going to miss you. lol :)

  213. NYY626 December 19th, 2009 at 12:35 pm

    Why do snowstorms always happen on the weekends?I would reaaaallly love for work to be canceled on Monday ( not likely but I can dream right?). Also this is not good for me and the other procrastinators of the world that arent done christmas shopping yet. EEEEEEK.

  214. Doreen - Ain't it Just "Grand"? December 19th, 2009 at 12:36 pm

    Happy Birthday, Erica!!

    Here in central NJ, the snow has let up for the last at least 2 hours – mere flurries. Don’t know if it’s the calm before the storm, or if they were wrong on the exact trajectory. Anyway, I’m happy I brought my daughter home from Central Islip yesterday.

    Erica – I was born in a snowstorm (in February). My mom says the snow was up to her hips in places.

    I think it’s special to have snow on yoru birthday, even though it can end up messing up plans. I bet you’ve had more birthday disappointments that were holiday related than snow related.

    Anyway, here’s a toast to you!!! Enjoy your birthday as much as possible. :)

  215. jpb1973 December 19th, 2009 at 12:36 pm

    If it’s Crawford you’re speaking of, I would rather have Holliday in the 5 hole behind Arod.

    —————————————————-

    Put Mark Teixeira in the #5 spot and Carl Crawford in the #3 spot.

    With Crawford no one has to worry about the leftfielder getting hit in the groin by missed flyballs.

  216. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 12:36 pm

    GB, you said that people may think the AL East is a 2 team race and then went on to compliment the O’s. I’m sorry if I misinterpreted you, but it did sound like you thought the division title was up for grabs among more than 2 teams. Also, I completely forgot the Rays………This is a 3 team race, but again, the 2 worst teams are not even bad. The East will be a dogfight for YEARS to come…….and it will depend on the dueling farm systems. Hopefully the Yankees (who have a disadvantage in terms of the farm because they never pick low enough to get top players) kids will develop.

  217. mick December 19th, 2009 at 12:37 pm

    The Yankees will hold onto the money this year and save it for next year’s free agents. Holliday simply isn’t good enough considering that better value will be available next year. The Yankees can’t afford to take the best player in EVERY free agent class anymore…they’ve got to be more selective.
    —————————————————
    Like who? and don’t say crawford. and how do you know their value now? what if there is an injury or they have a great year? too many variables. maybe we should have waited on reggie or catfish? what do you have against holliday? he looks like Mantle.

  218. Rich in NJ December 19th, 2009 at 12:37 pm

    “don’t’ understand why Cashman would spend money on a question mark just to address 2 other question marks”

    The starting pitching candidates out there are all flawed at this point. So he is looking at cheap boom/bust candidates. Again, I want Chapman.

    “Does he really want Joba and Hughes competing for a rotation spot? Probably not if he can use one of them to acquire a more proven starter.”

    Who? Josh Johnson? Now, that Halladay is off the market, I don’t believe this for a second.

    “Gaudin is an option. That’s all.”

    I never meant to imply anything else.

    “But I’m sure he prefers a legit number 2 starter for the rotation and a LF like Holliday.”

    He passed on Lackey.

  219. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 12:37 pm

    Happy Birthday Erica……..!

    Doreen, it hasn’t started snowing here yet. I need to go out and get a secret santa gift for one of my co-workers….I should probably do that soon, lol

  220. mick December 19th, 2009 at 12:38 pm

    Carl Crawford in the #3 spot.
    ———————————-
    surely you jest.

  221. Rich in NJ December 19th, 2009 at 12:38 pm

    Betsy

    The only reason not to trade him, imo, is that his value isn’t high enough to bring back a reasonable return.

  222. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 12:39 pm

    So the Yankees are going to pass on improving LF because Cliff Lee may be available next year? Silly….

  223. Joe December 19th, 2009 at 12:40 pm

    I agree I like ben sheets and Justin but I really like Eric bedard I know he’s had injury problems but so have these guys he’s pitched well in the al east too. Wat r ur thoughts????

  224. Doreen - Ain't it Just "Grand"? December 19th, 2009 at 12:42 pm

    Betsy -

    Yeah, my husband took the opportunity to take my girls to the mall to Christmas shop for me! :)

  225. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 12:42 pm

    Probably not, Rich…….but I don’t think the Yanks would do that anyway. I think they like him……

  226. Bret the Hitman December 19th, 2009 at 12:42 pm

    I never meant to imply anything else.

    “But I’m sure he prefers a legit number 2 starter for the rotation and a LF like Holliday.”

    He passed on Lackey.

    Lackey + Holliday is too expensive.

  227. Fran (the original) and OPPC member December 19th, 2009 at 12:43 pm

    GB7,
    Glad you are getting out tomorrow. Hope you are feeling well.

    Doreen,
    I was born in a snow storm as well in March. My mother told me that my grandfather left his car parked out on a main street so he could drive her to the hospital. He was afraid if he put the car in the garage he wouldn’t get it out.

  228. jpb1973 December 19th, 2009 at 12:45 pm

    Like who? and don’t say crawford. and how do you know their value now? what if there is an injury or they have a great year? too many variables. maybe we should have waited on reggie or catfish? what do you have against holliday? he looks like Mantle

    ——————————————————

    Why can’t I say Crawford…he’d be a great fit in the New Yankee Stadium. The short porch in right would increase his HR totals and him playing the sunfield in left would be an improvement over both Damon and Holliday.

    I have nothing personal against Holliday…I simply feel that he is overrated and the money would better be spent on Carl Crawford or a great pitcher.

  229. mick December 19th, 2009 at 12:45 pm

    crawford is a singles hitter. he gets caught stealing more than i like. what is the attraction.

    from a pr standpoint Holliday is a natural and fits the image the Yanks want to portray.

    i just don’t get the fascination with crawford and the fact they are quiet on Holliday tells me they are interested and negotiating.

  230. Gil L December 19th, 2009 at 12:45 pm

    cashman’s smart play

    by being very public about the fact that he targeted cc sabathia a year in advance, cash sent a very strong message to all future FA’s:
    we have patience, we’ll come for you, don’t rush into signing extentions.
    i’m pretty sure this message is heard loud and clear at the cliff lee household, among others…

  231. Bret the Hitman December 19th, 2009 at 12:45 pm

    Rich,

    Also, ‘boom or bust’ seems like a risky strategy for the starting rotation.

  232. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 12:45 pm

    Good for you, Doreen! I love Secret Santa at the office because I don’t get gifts anymore, lol. Hannukah just is no big deal, unless you’re a kid. We’re supposed to write what we want on a list so whoever picks us knows what to get. I refuse to do that because I want to be surprised. I’ve worked with these people for years – they know what I like. Whatever I get, I’m going to love. Plus, the best part is the surprise I get when I unwrap my present. I don’t get that joy anymore because I don’t celebrate Christmas, so this is a big deal to me, lol. Also, I love being able to buy a gift for someone.

  233. Rich in NJ December 19th, 2009 at 12:45 pm

    Betsy

    I think you can have Lee (or whomever) and Holliday depending on how the contracts are structured. In effect, they will add a pitcher next year with Pettitte’s money. If they are creative, they can add Holliday by backloading his contract. The one thing I think they don’t want to do is give him more than five years.

    As for Aceves, yes, his early success seduced Girardi…for now.

  234. jpb1973 December 19th, 2009 at 12:46 pm

    Carl Crawford in the #3 spot.
    ———————————-
    surely you jest.

    ==========================================

    No I don’t…he could hit 25 HR’s per year in the NYS.

  235. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2009 at 12:49 pm

    Fran (the original) and OPPC member
    December 19th, 2009 at 12:43 pm
    GB7,
    Glad you are getting out tomorrow. Hope you are feeling well.

    ————————————————————

    Thank you for the kind words and thoughts, Fran. It’s much appreciated. I feel like I’ve been in stir for a month.

  236. mick December 19th, 2009 at 12:49 pm

    crawford is a leadoff or #2 hitter, don’t try to reinvent the wheel.

  237. Rich in NJ December 19th, 2009 at 12:49 pm

    Bret the Hitman

    “Also, ‘boom or bust’ seems like a risky strategy for the starting rotation.”

    What other realistic options do they have at a reasonable cost in player assets and money?

    “Lackey + Holliday is too expensive.”

    I actually misread your post. I read it as Cash wanting a #2 starter over a LF. My bad.

  238. jpb1973 December 19th, 2009 at 12:50 pm

    crawford is a leadoff or #2 hitter, don’t try to reinvent the wheel.

    ——————————————————-

    You seem very “married” to the Matt Holliday proposition…are you and he related? Or do you work for Scott Boras?

  239. Bret the Hitman December 19th, 2009 at 12:51 pm

    What other realistic options do they have at a reasonable cost in player assets and money?

    I hope we’ll soon find out that there’s a better option for the 2010 rotation than any of the free agents.

    I have no idea but we’re not meant to have a clue.

  240. dee December 19th, 2009 at 12:52 pm

    What’s all this trading Swisher talk? Isn’t Long helping him improve his offense this offseason? Swish isn’t going anywhere. And as for a SP. Maybe Cash will trade for one.

  241. Phil December 19th, 2009 at 12:52 pm

    Holliday > Crawford.

  242. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2009 at 12:53 pm

    Betsy – high on pie
    December 19th, 2009 at 12:36 pm
    GB, you said that people may think the AL East is a 2 team race and then went on to compliment the O’s. I’m sorry if I misinterpreted you, but it did sound like you thought the division title was up for grabs among more than 2 teams. Also, I completely forgot the Rays………This is a 3 team race, but again, the 2 worst teams are not even bad. The East will be a dogfight for YEARS to come…….and it will depend on the dueling farm systems. Hopefully the Yankees (who have a disadvantage in terms of the farm because they never pick low enough to get top players) kids will develop.

    ————————————————————

    As it stands right now, NYY is still the class of the league. Health is the main concern, as it is every year.

    as far as Toronto and Baltimore, they can hit with any team in the league and the defense is outstanding. Pitching/return to health of their pitching staff is what they need.

  243. mick December 19th, 2009 at 12:53 pm

    If they are creative, they can add Holliday by backloading his contract. The one thing I think they don’t want to do is give him more than five years.
    —————————————————-
    Rich
    This is the way I see it also. It is still early in the game. Taking time is the way to negotiate. Keeping it quiet is also favorable. Don’t know why these Yankee fans don’t see Holliday as the perfect fit? They will certainly love him once he’s here.

  244. YankeeRay December 19th, 2009 at 12:54 pm

    Signing Holliday accomplishes so much and gives flexibility in the future. There is no guarantee that Crawford will be available next year or that he would even want to be a Yankee.
    With Holliday you could look at trading Swisher as that would save money this year and beyond as his salary escalates. Melky is a better RF than Swish and that allows Gardner to be an extra OF to pinch run or play defense late in games. Hoffman spells Melky against lefties.
    Swisher for Lowe is ok if Atlanta eats some of his salary.
    You could also trade Swisher for a relief pitcher.
    I would rather package Hughes/Joba,Montero and one other pitcher to try and get Josh Johnson.
    I live in south Florida and there is no way the Marlins will pay him the money he wants next year.
    Getting the package I mentioned is a Marlin type move.
    Jeter
    Nick
    Arod
    Tex
    Holliday
    Granderson
    Posada
    Cano
    Melky

  245. mick December 19th, 2009 at 12:55 pm

    You seem very “married” to the Matt Holliday proposition…are you and he related? Or do you work for Scott Boras?
    —————————————————–
    We had a good conversation while it lasted. Why did you have to ruin it with your smart comment?

  246. Bret the Hitman December 19th, 2009 at 12:56 pm

    I am hoping and praying for Josh Johnson to be traded for and extended.

  247. mick December 19th, 2009 at 12:57 pm

    Signing Holliday accomplishes so much and gives flexibility in the future. There is no guarantee that Crawford will be available next year or that he would even want to be a Yankee.
    With Holliday you could look at trading Swisher as that would save money this year and beyond as his salary escalates. Melky is a better RF than Swish and that allows Gardner to be an extra OF to pinch run or play defense late in games. Hoffman spells Melky against lefties.
    —————————————————-
    YankeeRay

    Well said. My thoughts exactly. Swisher has no future here.

  248. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 19th, 2009 at 12:58 pm

    Fran (the original) and OPPC member
    December 19th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
    Erica,
    Happy Birthday! They keep upping the snow totals so I don’t think you are going to avoid it. I am in Queens and just heard up to 14 inches expected. I hope that they are wrong.

    *****

    Its okay, we just officially cancelled the birthday plans for tonight. It looks like I am spending my birthday snowed in alone with my Yankee people.

    I told my dad I bought myself a candle in case this happens, I am going to call my family later and light it and put them on speaker and make them sing to me. LOL

  249. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 19th, 2009 at 12:59 pm

    NYY626
    December 19th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
    Happy Birthday Erica!!

    For your birthday I hope that

    a) the yankees work out some miracle with Johnny
    b) the snow isnt bad enough to ruin your celebrations!

    ************

    B has already failed. Is there hope for A??? I believe in birthday miracles. I also believe it will always snow on December 19th…. sigh

  250. Fran (the original) and OPPC member December 19th, 2009 at 12:59 pm

    I would like the Yankees to sign Sheets. Could have a huge upside.

    I thought that I heard that Hughes will have an innings limit this season. Did anyone else hear that? And if he does won’t that affect him being in the starting rotation all next season like Joba this year?

  251. dee December 19th, 2009 at 1:00 pm

    “I am hoping and praying for Josh Johnson to be traded for and extended.”

    That would be amazing, but who would we have to give up to get him?

  252. DaSaint007 December 19th, 2009 at 1:01 pm

    Anyone who doesn’t think that right now, with Melky as LF and the #9 hitter, the Yankees don’t have the best lineup in the AL East, if not all of baseball is delusional.

    DELUSIONAL.

  253. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 19th, 2009 at 1:03 pm

    Doreen – Ain’t it Just “Grand”?
    December 19th, 2009 at 12:36 pm
    Happy Birthday, Erica!!

    Here in central NJ, the snow has let up for the last at least 2 hours – mere flurries. Don’t know if it’s the calm before the storm, or if they were wrong on the exact trajectory. Anyway, I’m happy I brought my daughter home from Central Islip yesterday.

    Erica – I was born in a snowstorm (in February). My mom says the snow was up to her hips in places.

    I think it’s special to have snow on yoru birthday, even though it can end up messing up plans. I bet you’ve had more birthday disappointments that were holiday related than snow related.

    Anyway, here’s a toast to you!!! Enjoy your birthday as much as possible.

    *****

    I can remember at least 5 birthdays in my existance the snow messed everything up. But basically, this December birthday thing is not working for me. But I couldn’t deal with a February birthday. I am in the wrong line of work for that

  254. jpb1973 December 19th, 2009 at 1:04 pm

    You seem very “married” to the Matt Holliday proposition…are you and he related? Or do you work for Scott Boras?
    —————————————————–
    We had a good conversation while it lasted. Why did you have to ruin it with your smart comment?

    ===================================================

    I’m trying to understand your fixation with Holliday. As I see it, Holliday did well when he was in the NL playing at Coors Field. He was very unimpressive in his short stay in the AL with the A’s. I know that is a small sample size but it sends up a “flag” to me.

    Also, his defense was so bad that boxed up a critical flyball in the playoffs…dearly costing his team a game against the Dodgers. I know that is, again, a small sample size but still its another “flag”.

    I’d like to see that Yankees pass on this guy and use the money next year for another free agent who will help the team more. The Yankees simply can’t afford to take the best player in every free agent class…they are going to have to be more selective and be creative about how they fill out their roster.

  255. DaSaint007 December 19th, 2009 at 1:04 pm

    But if you want to spend the big bucks on Holliday, just for the sake of spending them, then move Melky to RF, and trade Swisher, who had a very productive year, then go ahead. Next year you’ll clamor to replace Melky with another hired gun and use the rationale that you can’t win a series with him in RF.

  256. EdWhitson December 19th, 2009 at 1:04 pm

    It is fairly un-interesting to talk about the Yankees financial situation here, since frankly, we lack a lot of information.

    DaSaint, mentioned debt service on the stadium of $100m.

    Except, interest expense is deductible for tax purposes, so knock that down to $60m.

    Plus, by building your own stadium you get to reduce / eliminate either revenue sharing / luxury tax payments. That obviously has a value to the Yankees.

    Winning the WS also generated a signficiant of revenue for the team.

    Look, I don’t claim to know all the facts or be a financial expert, but nobody here can engage in an intelligent discussion of the Yankees’ financial health b/c most of the info is not publicly available. So it is a silly conversation.

  257. dee December 19th, 2009 at 1:05 pm

    Doreen,

    I’m in Central Jersey too. They just said 12-18 inches but all it’s just flurries!

  258. upstate kate December 19th, 2009 at 1:05 pm

    Erica
    My sister’s birthday is also today…when she was little, we would celebrate her 1/2 birthday in June.

  259. Neil December 19th, 2009 at 1:06 pm

    Unless the Rays are within a few games of 1st place at the 7/31 trading deadline, Carl Crawford will be trade bait but not in the AL East.
    The Rays will never pay what Crawford will require and they’ll have Desmond Jennings and Fernando Perez ready to go and cost controlled for years after Crawford is gone.
    Evan Longoria has become the face of their franchise and he too is locked up long term.
    If Boras and Cashman can find common ground with a backloaded 5-year deal for Holliday, Hal Steinbrenner will give a green light unless another pitcher becomes too pricey.

  260. m December 19th, 2009 at 1:06 pm

    I hate Bedard with a passion, but if I could get a guarantee that his hip issue’s not a problem I’d take a look.

    He is (was) a good pitcher, pitched in the AL East against both the Yankees and Boston (admittedly I don’t know his record), and there are no clubhouse issues for these kind of players when they come to the Yankees. Only the angry-black-man Sheffield types are a problem, and he wasn’t really a problem until he was halfway out the door. And he won’t be asking $12M that Sheets is asking.

    Take a chance, and then if it doesn’t work out Wang will be ready by then. :P

  261. NYYROC December 19th, 2009 at 1:07 pm

    Cashman certainly is the master of deception. Maybe Joba and Hughes are going to fight for 1 spot in the rotation but that just doesn’t seem to make sense. For the past 2 years he has turned down every offer for Joba and/ or Hughes, including deals for Santana, Halliday (last summer and this winter) Cliff Lee and who knows who else. Why? So he can put one of them in the pen? If that’s the case he might as well have traded one (plus others) for the top level SP and left the other to be the #5. I agree with Patrick, it’s time to let Joba and Hughes pitch in the rotation. If they falter the mid-level pitchers they are looking at now will still be available next June.

  262. LathamJoe December 19th, 2009 at 1:08 pm

    How about signing Whitey Ford? He would probably pitch as many innings as Sheets, Duchserer, and Escobar will next season. :)

  263. NYY626 December 19th, 2009 at 1:09 pm

    I can remember at least 5 birthdays in my existance the snow messed everything up. But basically, this December birthday thing is not working for me. But I couldn’t deal with a February birthday. I am in the wrong line of work for that
    ________________________________________________________________
    Maybe you sould just try celebrating on your half birthday? I’m pretty sure there won’t be a snowstorm on June 19th! Plus, more than likely a yankee game will be on.

  264. dee December 19th, 2009 at 1:10 pm

    I read an article today how Damon didn’t come back because of budget, but I don’t think it was about the budget. I think it was about value. The fact is the Yankees did not want to pay him something he was not worth. But Holliday is worth it. Hopefully they can find some common ground and work it out. Hopefully not at the extent of losing Swish though. I don’t want him going anywhere. We talk a lot about team chemistry and I think that Swisher really helped with that last year.

  265. Rose December 19th, 2009 at 1:10 pm

    If Cashman doesn’t upgrade LF with a trade (I don’t think he will sign Holliday) Melky will be fine there. He is a good fielder and hits well for a 9th place hitter.
    ————————————–
    As far as Cliff Lee when he hits free agency, he would be a great addition to the Yanks staff.

  266. upstate kate December 19th, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    None of these pitchers mentioned seem as appealing to me as Joba and Phil…and then try to get Lee for next year when Andy retires.

  267. Rose December 19th, 2009 at 1:13 pm

    Didn’t Cashman say Hughes and Joba would compete for a spot in the rotation? And the one that lost would go to the pen.

  268. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 19th, 2009 at 1:14 pm

    upstate kate
    December 19th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
    Erica
    My sister’s birthday is also today…when she was little, we would celebrate her 1/2 birthday in June.

    ****

    I am considering that. But I don’t think it would be the same. As my 3-year old self first whined at my 3rd birthday party (I recently rediscovered that tape)…. “It’s MY Birthday”

  269. dee December 19th, 2009 at 1:15 pm

    “If Cashman doesn’t upgrade LF with a trade”

    Who do you think Cash could trade for to play LF? I keep thinking maybe he’ll work out a trade too, but I just don’t know for who.

  270. Howard Cosell December 19th, 2009 at 1:15 pm

    ATTN: CHAD JENNINGS & SAM BORDEN & JOSH THOMSON

    I think its time we do a BORAS discussion with evaluation as to whether he is worth being a top agent?

    My initial opinion is that he has lost it big time starting with A-ROD and now more highlighted with the ridiculous advice to DAMON on a 4-5 year deal at 13 million. And I personally don’t think it is the players – they usually follow the advice of a dominant personality like BORAS.

    This entire planet knows that DAMON is not getting that package from anyone. He is lucky to get a 3 year deal and I doubt that. Its probably 2 years @ 7-8mm with incentives to 11mm.

    The garbage that Boras was cranking out about DAMON being a player that averages 140 games a year etc was absolute stinky horse manure. The guy is always hurt, calf problem, shoulder,etc the man is also a whiner too. He is the epitome of the definition “nagging injury” and thus the fear that something will explode on him. A hot potato if you will.

    And Boras’s technique and advice of trying to sneak in the last minute and lower the demand didn’t work and I think the owners are somewhat avoiding him and his clients if they can. Didn’t AROD fire him after that scenario?

    I also think and feel that Cashman is trying his best after the AROD situation to avoid Boras clients at all costs.

    I’d love to see a thorough breakdown over the last 3 years evaluating his advice. I think BORAS has now defined “Jump the Shark” or better a new phrase “Chump the Shark”

    Thanks HC

  271. Fran (the original) and OPPC member December 19th, 2009 at 1:16 pm

    Rose,
    I heard that too in one of Cashman’s interviews.

  272. Nick December 19th, 2009 at 1:19 pm

    I personally think that they should take a chance with Ben Sheets. I think that his 12 million dollar asking price is too high. The Yankees should play the waiting game with him and see what happens, and if they do, they will get him at a good price.

    BRING BACK JOHNNY DAMON!!!!!

  273. EdWhitson December 19th, 2009 at 1:21 pm

    dee and Howard Cosell bring up good points.

    Dee – I think you are right – if the Yankees gave JD $10m it would not break the bank (what did we spend last year on the OF), but the new philsophy, IMO, is that value matters. If JD is not worth $20m, he ain’t getting it, regardless if we can pay it. It’s the WILLINGESS to pay now vs. the ABILITY to pay. That seems like a new angle.

    Howard – Boras overplayed his hand and failed to respond to a different era. Agreed.

  274. mick December 19th, 2009 at 1:24 pm

    Why can’t you people see they want Holliday and not Damon.

    Their offer was ridiculous!

    It’s the same thing they did to Torre.

    Get with it people.

  275. DaSaint007 December 19th, 2009 at 1:25 pm

    Only the angry-black-man Sheffield types are a problem.
    ————————————————————

    Interesting comment m. I’m not even going to address that.

    Regardless, I think that Bedard can hold the fort until Wang is able to contribute. Bullpen has to be solid though.

  276. rover December 19th, 2009 at 1:25 pm

    Nick Swisher should have an opp to start. I mean Babe did it!

  277. m December 19th, 2009 at 1:27 pm

    I think if we HAD to go with Joba and Hughes, I think we’d be okay. We’d probably have Gaudin and Ace (what a waste in the pen) in the bullpen.

    But I really think that Joba and Hughes could rise to the challenge.

    And with CC/AJ/Andy anchoring the staff, there’s definitely room for 2 high upside question marks.

    But if we had to have one go to the pen, it’d be Joba even though it makes more sense to send Hughes because he’ll be on some sort of IP limit. At this point in his career Joba seems wired to be a reliever. I know, I know. Joba has big, big upside.

  278. dee December 19th, 2009 at 1:28 pm

    Do you think Boras overplayed his hand with Damon on purpose because he wants the Yankees to go after Holliday?

  279. mick December 19th, 2009 at 1:32 pm

    dee December 19th, 2009 at 1:28 pm

    Do you think Boras overplayed his hand with Damon on purpose because he wants the Yankees to go after Holliday?

    Bingo!

  280. braeden December 19th, 2009 at 1:34 pm

    If Dave Duncan (pitching coach Cardinals) couldn’t use Pineiro and Marquis (both ex Cardinals,) Yankees look deep before you leap!! Both aren’t any better than Mitre.

  281. jack December 19th, 2009 at 1:39 pm

    Why doesn’t anyone mention Eric Bedard? Granted he might be a headcase with some flaws but he is a lefty who has pitched in the A.L. and has a lot of upside potential.

  282. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 19th, 2009 at 1:40 pm

    new thread :arrow:

  283. Howard Cosell December 19th, 2009 at 1:48 pm

    Do you think Boras overplayed his hand with Damon on purpose because he wants the Yankees to go after Holliday?

    Not really – the total of the two packages would bring the same commission. Holliday and the Cards are not far off and frankly that is where he will be. The top dollars are the offers made earlier. As time goes on the players will freak and the teams left to pay will be the small markets.

    Damon is toast at this point really…… and he knows BORAS totally screwed him. And if it was intentional which I doubt… it will obviosuly be made perfectly cleared to Damon by other Agents. Too much risk there.

    Here’s the deal- Bay will sign with the Mets – noone else is going to give him another year and Holliday signs with the CARDS maybe the Giants but I doubt it.

    Damon? maybe the Mariners at 8mm for 2 years and maybe the Giants for the same.

    YOU’ve got a lot of DH types like Branyon and Blalock and Cust that Damon is competing with.

    I’m utterly amazed how BORAS and DAMON totally overvalued themselves by playing in that great NY YANKEES lineup and with a short wind driven porch. You think DAMON is going to have a #3 & #4 hitter behind him like Tex and AROD?

    HC

  284. jpb1973 December 19th, 2009 at 1:48 pm

    If Cashman doesn’t upgrade LF with a trade (I don’t think he will sign Holliday) Melky will be fine there. He is a good fielder and hits well for a 9th place hitter.
    ————————————–
    As far as Cliff Lee when he hits free agency, he would be a great addition to the Yanks staff.

    ===========================================================

    Rose, I totally agree. I am hopeful that the Yankees will hold the line on spending this year and use it next year for Carl Crawford, Cliff Lee and Huston Street. I know…I know…we can’t afford all three…but they are all better than anything available this season.

  285. humblefeather December 19th, 2009 at 2:26 pm

    Any potential or possibility in trading for Greinke?

    I like Wang’s chances of rediscovering his 19-Win form. He’s got to be determined to turn it around.

    Hughes-5th starter, Joba-8th inning!

    I think they need to go after Holliday now to back up A-rod. But Boras will ask too much.

  286. MR. OCTOBER December 19th, 2009 at 2:37 pm

    Seattle may be looking to trade Brandon Morrow for a corner lefty hitting infielder. Yanks should see if Juan Miranda plus a young power arm gets it done. If it doesnt work out a three team deal. Morrow Hughes Joba can compete for 4 and 5 with the last guy going to the pen.

  287. JMK aka The Overshare December 19th, 2009 at 4:07 pm

    Sign sheets

  288. 12345 December 19th, 2009 at 4:44 pm

    jarrod washburn

  289. Mr. Goodkat December 20th, 2009 at 2:47 am

    Sheets and Duscherer.

  290. Berdell Hardy December 20th, 2009 at 2:58 pm

    As Ace said, “Sheets—,filthy when healthy”. Yea, that’s the problem or, at least a MAJOR concern! How long will he stay healthy? Plus, he seems to have priced himself out of consideration. If an offer is made it should be loaded with incentatives.

  291. rick December 20th, 2009 at 7:16 pm

    anyone they get would have to be on a one year contract..\
    Matt Cain and Cliff Lee are free agents next year… along with our next left fielder… carl crawford… and maybe a Dh albert…

  292. Ben December 20th, 2009 at 9:01 pm

    i’d love to see wang back with the yankees

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