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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Trade Nick Swisher? Convince me.

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 19, 2009 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

This seems to be the latest trendy topic in the comments so … let’s discuss.

I know Nick Swisher’s .249 batting average was ugly, but he was otherwise just as advertised in his first season with the Yankees. He saw a ton of pitches, he hit 29 home runs and he reached base at a .371 clip. To me, that’s a productive corner outfielder.

Yes, he strikes out too much to hit for a high average, but in his absolute worst season (2008 with the White Sox, the reason he came to the Yankees so cheap) he finished with 24 home runs and 69 RBI. For a worst-case scenario, that’s not half bad. And he can handle right field. He’s not great out there, but he’s certainly good enough.

I won’t completely dismiss the idea of trading him, but what could the Yankees get for him that’s more valuable to the team? As it stands, he’s the Yankees’ second-best outfielder (in terms of production). Is the idea of trading him contingent upon the idea of signing Matt Holliday?

Certainly, Swisher doesn’t belong in that group of trade-under-no-circumstances Yankees, but I’m not sure I understand the desire to ship him off right now. He was very productive in 2009, and that production was perfectly in keeping with his 2007 and 2006 seasons. If Swisher put up the exact same numbers in 2010, wouldn’t that be good production from a right fielder hitting in the bottom of the order?

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299 Responses to “Trade Nick Swisher? Convince me.”

  1. Anonymous28 December 19th, 2009 at 1:27 pm

    Agreed Chad. I dont see why people want to trade Swish. He is a very good player

  2. dee December 19th, 2009 at 1:27 pm

    Thank you Chad! Great post! No reason for Swish to go anywhere. He was very productive in 2009 and regardless of what people say, I actually trust him in RF. His arm even improved throughout the season. I know he makes more $ than Cabrera and Gardner, but I would trade one of them before Swish (if they’re actually thinking about trading of course…this is all juts speculation).

  3. Mike S. December 19th, 2009 at 1:29 pm

    Let’s not forget how he fits in the clubhouse either. He brought a lot of fun there. Sometimes you need a guy who can loosen things up.

  4. I Slept With Tiger December 19th, 2009 at 1:31 pm

    I agree. Some fans think we need a superstar at every position. Swish is solid.

  5. upstate kate December 19th, 2009 at 1:31 pm

    I understand making upgrades where possible, and replacing free agents. I don’t understand why we need to totally revamp the team. The 2009 Yankees won a WS. I really liked this team, on and off the field. I don’t want to see Swish or Melky traded, it was hard enough losing Matsui and Damon.

  6. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 19th, 2009 at 1:32 pm

    mick
    December 19th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
    Why can’t you people see they want Holliday and not Damon.

    Their offer was ridiculous!

    It’s the same thing they did to Torre.

    Get with it people.

    *****

    Not sure if I am one of the people you are referring to, but I take offense to your tone. As much as it pains me, I think their offer to MPB Johnny Damon was fair. I think Johnny was stupidly led by Boras and overplayed his hand.

    I also read on mlbtraderumors.com that there was worry within the Yankee organization that if Johnny signed with a pay cut, he probably would have been unhappy and they thought it would lead to problems.

  7. rm December 19th, 2009 at 1:32 pm

    We’ve got a lot of outfielders but we still would like a relly big bat or a quality pitcher. A package based on Swisher is more likely than a Melky or Gardner trade to get that in return. Now that we have Nick Johnson we no longer need Swisher to be our back up firstbaseman so he is more likely to be traded than he was before.

    I agree unless we get an upgrade that fills a specific need like a very big bat or a very good pitcher we should keep Nick Swisher.

  8. Simon December 19th, 2009 at 1:32 pm

    Here’s why:
    With Robinson Cano, Curtis Granderson and Melky Cabrera in the lineup we can not afford more strikeout victims. Trading him clears an assload of salary for this year and next year, and while the result may be a slight drop in offensive production, I would assume the person we plug in is “younger” and more “athletic” than Swisher…who really was awful for much of last year.
    That money is better spent on Damon, Sheets, Duscherer or a free agent next year. If Matt Hoffman can play a better RF than Swisher, why not give him a shot to see if he can bat under .250? I bet he can…

  9. Phil December 19th, 2009 at 1:32 pm

    It’s unlikely that we’d be able to trade him for a more productive rightfielder, so what’s the point? We don’t have any young prospects ready to put up good numbers in right, so why weaken the team?

  10. Sign Sheets December 19th, 2009 at 1:33 pm

    Nick Swisher 10:6.75M, 11:9M

    After the 2010 season, Swisher gets extremely expensive for his production. If the Yankees were to deal him for some pitching depth or prospects, they can sign Damon for 1 year, and move Melky to right field. This would clear 9M in 2010 and Swisher’s production is easy to replace. One thing that I can’t deny however, is Swisher’s clubhouse personality, and leadership that he brings to this team. He is also one of the more exciting players on the Yankees, and is fairly young (29).

  11. The Cro December 19th, 2009 at 1:34 pm

    Depending on what other moves Brian Cashman makes this off season (most importantly whether we do or do not sign Matt Holliday) – IF – Nick Swisher can be /is made available, I’d probably leverage his solid bat for a # 3 or # 4 Starting Pitcher.

    Depending on who the targeted SP is would also determine whether or not it is a straight up trade or that Swisher would be / could be a big piece of a larger package of players traded.

  12. Stephen December 19th, 2009 at 1:34 pm

    How many “stopgap 1st baseman” and “4th outfielders” generate 29 HRs and a .371 OBP? That’s what he was brought in here to be, so don’t suddenly expect Paul O’Neill.

    The guy can’t be counted on with men on base or in the clutch, we know this. He puts more RISP pressure on Cano, who subsequently choked as well…we know this. But he gets on base, he hits HR, he is key to the clubhouse mix (especially without Damon), and he is paid a reasonable salary.

    Swisher cannot net a #2 or #3 pitcher like Vazquez as ABSURDLY mentioned in previous threads. He would net a role player and a low to mid-level prospect. Swish is worth farrrr more than that to us.

  13. jim December 19th, 2009 at 1:35 pm

    i think it would be a big hit to the yankees chemistry if they were to get rid of both swisher AND damon. chemistry was such a big make up of the yankees’ success in 2009 and swisher’s personality certainly helped. it would be thoughtless to get rid of swisher.

  14. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 19th, 2009 at 1:36 pm

    Nick Swisher=Most unappreciated player by Yankee fans

  15. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 19th, 2009 at 1:38 pm

    lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins)
    December 19th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
    Nick Swisher=Most unappreciated player by Yankee fans

    *****

    Nah, they really liked him last April ;-)

  16. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 19th, 2009 at 1:38 pm

    Nick Swisher most certainly does not get extremely expensive for his production. It is the opposite in fact. He was worth $16 million last year according to fangraphs.

    He is entering his prime, his defense is getting better, and KLong is working with him this winter.

    Nick Swisher’s contact is one of the best contracts the Yankees have on their payroll right now

  17. m December 19th, 2009 at 1:40 pm

    No. He’s irritating as they come, but he was quite valuable with his power and versatility.

    Besides, no one’s going to take his backloaded contract off our hands without us paying for part of it.

    Save the Swish.

  18. Evan3457 December 19th, 2009 at 1:42 pm

    Neither Cano nor Melky are high strikeout hitters. Melky’s career high is 68 in the only season he got over 600 AB.

    Cano played the most games on the team and had only 68 K’s and the lowest K/AB ration of any of the regulars.

    I know they just picked up Granderson, but how many are aware that last season, in spite of Swisher, A-Rod, Tex, Jeter, Cano, Melky, and everyone else, the Yanks were only 2 team K’s away from leading the AL with the fewest team K’s? Only the Orioles had fewer K’s, 1013 to the Yanks 1014. In the NL, only Houston and the Mets had fewer team K’s (on offense) than the Yanks.

  19. mick December 19th, 2009 at 1:42 pm

    Why would the Yankees offer Damon a paycut?
    For what reason? Did he underperform? No.

    Think about it.

    They did the same thing to Torre. Insult him away.
    They had no intention to bring either of them back.

    Happy Hollidays! (purposely misspelled)

  20. Erin December 19th, 2009 at 1:43 pm

    lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins)
    December 19th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
    Nick Swisher=Most unappreciated player by Yankee fans

    *****************
    I totally agree :)

  21. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 19th, 2009 at 1:44 pm

    If you made a list of RF in all of baseball based purely on production, there is not a lot of guys ahead of Nick Swisher on that list.

  22. Erin December 19th, 2009 at 1:45 pm

    Erica, unfortunately Ernie and Bert never did a birthday segment as far as I can remember, so in honor of the season, I picked this one:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related

    Happy Birthday :)

  23. RMEL December 19th, 2009 at 1:45 pm

    i remember all the years of we should trade Paul O’Neil crap…Don’t fix wants not broken…Totally agree Chad

  24. FMV December 19th, 2009 at 1:45 pm

    if the yankees can make themselves better short term or long term by trading Nick Swsisher….then go for it.

  25. Bret the Hitman December 19th, 2009 at 1:46 pm

    When the Yanks sign Holliday, Melky or Swisher is a goner.

  26. Mike from Sarasota December 19th, 2009 at 1:46 pm

    Batting average is overrated, as you said. Swisher had a very productive season.

    .444 SecA 5th in AL
    .371 OBP 21st in AL
    4.27 P/PA 2nd in AL
    65 XBH 15th in AL
    97 BB 2nd in AL
    17.2 AB/HR 11th in AL

    Not to mention his contribution to the clubhouse.

  27. rm December 19th, 2009 at 1:47 pm

    All I’m saying is after talking up the value of having a DH who can play the field Cash signed for a DH who can only play 1st base. That is very curious if he plans to keep Swisher. The faact that Swish can play 1st base pretty well may make him more valuable to somebody else than he is to us. That could be the basis of a good trade.

  28. FMV December 19th, 2009 at 1:47 pm

    RMEL December 19th, 2009 at 1:45 pm

    i remember all the years of we should trade Paul O’Neil crap…Don’t fix wants not broken…Totally agree Chad
    _______________________

    well…the “don’t fix whats not broken” idea kinda went out the window when the yankees let Matsui and Damon go on their merry way.

  29. mick December 19th, 2009 at 1:48 pm

    The only reason the Swisher trade talks are rampant are because of a potential Holliday deal.

    Since being creative will probably make the deal happen, backloading and possibly dealing away salaries to bring the payroll down are being discussed.

  30. EdWhitson December 19th, 2009 at 1:48 pm

    Here is why. Swisher, like Melky, is not a new toy for the kids on this website. They just want something for Christmas and are willing to throw whoever is not a “name” player under the bus, if they think it helps the Yankees get Holliday. 2 years ago, many of you wanted to dump Cano for a new toy. I, for one, am glad that did not happen.

    Swisher is good, not great. High OBP, wears down pitchers, pop, decent fielder, good in the clubhouse, reasonable contract (though probably a little rich) young guy (28?) in his prime. He is EXACTLY what Cash is looking for. Oh yeah, a WS champ. He ain’t going anywhere, folks.

  31. Pokey December 19th, 2009 at 1:49 pm

    So what if they never wanted to bring them back. They don’t owe anybody anything after their contract is up.

  32. jpb1973 December 19th, 2009 at 1:50 pm

    from the last thread:

    If Cashman doesn’t upgrade LF with a trade (I don’t think he will sign Holliday) Melky will be fine there. He is a good fielder and hits well for a 9th place hitter.
    ————————————–
    As far as Cliff Lee when he hits free agency, he would be a great addition to the Yanks staff.

    ===========================================================

    Rose, I totally agree. I am hopeful that the Yankees will hold the line on spending this year and use it next year for Carl Crawford, Cliff Lee and Huston Street. I know…I know…we can’t afford all three…but they are all better than anything available this season.

  33. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 19th, 2009 at 1:51 pm

    Thanks Erin!

    I love when Bert gets mad. LOL. Unfortunately, I think I’ll be able to make my own snowman soon.

    I came across this one last night. I was hysterical.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQj2_Zmq1-o

  34. Pokey December 19th, 2009 at 1:52 pm

    What potential Holliday deal? We all know less than my dog about what is going on behind Cash’s closed door.

  35. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 19th, 2009 at 1:54 pm

    MLB RF

    1. Shin-Soo Coo/Jayson Werth (take your pick)
    3. Justin Upton
    4. Ichiro
    5. JD Drew
    6. Nick Swisher

  36. Bad Scooter December 19th, 2009 at 1:54 pm

    You guys knocking Jon Garland are missing the boat. Solid innings eater for backend of rotation.

  37. Phil December 19th, 2009 at 1:54 pm

    Yanks are dangerous in the Holliday season. Always have been.

  38. Howard Cosell December 19th, 2009 at 1:55 pm

    One Word – AGREED!

    This guy walks a lot takes a lot of pitches – he’s a wear on the pitcher – he is like an extra inning – think about that.

    The Yanks should break their tradition and try to lock him up for three years now…….. he’s worth it and won’t take the money and run.

    HC

  39. DaSaint007 December 19th, 2009 at 1:57 pm

    Thank God for a moderator, as it helps to bring sanity back to the discussion.

    There’s no need to trade Swisher unless other pieces are in the equation: A replacement, and value for the trade. But sometimes you need to hold on to players beyond their onfield production. Swisher was the primary element in enhancing clubhouse chemistry AND he’s productive. Certainly we have a great shot at back-to-back championships with him in RF.

    The notion that The Yankees need – emphasis on need – to replace Melky as LF is bewildering to me. Sure, if Holliday’s price drops to around 15-17 million/year for 5 years I’d do it. But not at 18, 19 or 20 mil and certainly not for 6+ years. I’ve long opted for Crawford because I feel that in addition to his proven skills defensively, offensively, and on the basepaths, that he’d probably get $15 million/year next year. Because of his age, I would give him a 6 year contract. But if Holliday drops to that range, then sure. Otherwise wait to next year.

    Pitching is the focus now, and I think that whatever remains in the budget will then be used to fill whatever holes remain, after the pitching is addressed.

  40. jpb1973 December 19th, 2009 at 1:58 pm

    One Word – AGREED!

    This guy walks a lot takes a lot of pitches – he’s a wear on the pitcher – he is like an extra inning – think about that.

    The Yanks should break their tradition and try to lock him up for three years now…….. he’s worth it and won’t take the money and run.

    ———————————————————

    I hope you are kidding. Nick Swisher is under contract through the 2011 season. There’s no need to lock him up.

  41. mick December 19th, 2009 at 1:58 pm

    What potential Holliday deal?

    Please look up the word “potential.”

    It means “it could happen.” Nothing definite.

  42. Ed H. December 19th, 2009 at 1:59 pm

    Mike from Sarasota
    December 19th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
    Batting average is overrated, as you said. Swisher had a very productive season.

    .444 SecA 5th in AL
    .371 OBP 21st in AL
    4.27 P/PA 2nd in AL
    65 XBH 15th in AL
    97 BB 2nd in AL
    17.2 AB/HR 11th in AL

    Not to mention his contribution to the clubhouse.
    ——————————-

    What he said. (Even though I have no idea what a SecA or a P/PA is, I like that he was fifth and second in the league in those categories. Must be something good … I think. Mike – HELP!)

  43. The Phranchise December 19th, 2009 at 2:00 pm

    Ok, I will say up front I am a Swisher fan. Before the Yankees got him I told Peter on here I wanted him and he didn’t see him as a fit. Now the way this team is and will be structured forward it seems like the right move to trade him, not to get rid of him individually because he does fit well, but what they can do with such a move. But let’s focus on him.

    His splits are the same for the mist part. No advantage against righties or lefties. Last year he batted .227 with RISP, with 2 outs RISP he batted .163. His defense while passable was not good for a lot of the regular season and his arm in LF is subpar. He struck out 126 times last year. If there was an area that struggled this year it was the bottom third of this lineup of which he was a part of. With Granderson here, you have a lineup full of guys that strike out 100+ times a year. In March & April he hit .303 with 7 homers and 19 rbis, the rest of his year looks worse in comparison. He did struggle mightly in stretches last year. He is paid $5 mill or so this year, but $10 next and $12 I believe after that. You also have the personalty I like, but rememeber the team needing to speak to him a few times last year. Now those are all the negatives. There is a laundry list of positives. I just don’t see Swisher staying here past this year or more. I don’t want an All Star fillin.

    I just feel if they can get something back and get out of a portion of that upcoming contract, the money is better spent elsewhere. Trading for an OF or signing one is probably the easiest spot to do so. They have Granderson under contract, still Melky and Gardner. With Werth, Crawford, Dejusus and others out there the following year there will be options to stay young and improve rather than going after Holliday this year. And there are OFs out there that could plug in nicely to this lineup on Abreu-type one year deals. Just my thoughts. And again, don’t hate Swisher, I actually like him, but if the opportunity is there to improve, why wouldn’t you?

  44. Pokey December 19th, 2009 at 2:01 pm

    How about instead of calling it a “potential” deal we call it the “morons dreaming about having all-stars at every position w/o concerns for a budget” deal.

  45. blake December 19th, 2009 at 2:01 pm

    I don’t see swisher getting traded. For that to happen two things would have to occur 1) the Yankees would have to sign Holliday 2) the Yankees would have to be able to get a significantly better player in return for swish than they could get for Melky.

    the first one of those could very well happen but I would much prefer keeping Swisher over melky or Gardner and I don’t see swisher bringing a much better return than either of those would.

  46. dee December 19th, 2009 at 2:04 pm

    Even if we somehow sign Holliday, I still don’t think Swish is gone.

  47. Ed H. December 19th, 2009 at 2:04 pm

    To Erica:

    Happy Birthday to you
    Who started GTLU
    You liven up LoHud’s blog
    And love Kermit frog!

    Have a very happy birthday, Erica.

  48. @ngerman December 19th, 2009 at 2:05 pm

    To the “Swish and Melky and assorted others strike out too much” crowd … Yankee batters had the fewest strikeouts and most walks in the AL last year …

  49. Pokey December 19th, 2009 at 2:05 pm

    or we could call it an “overpaying for a borderline all-star in a weak market when we could use that money next year” deal

  50. mick December 19th, 2009 at 2:06 pm

    Chemistry is great but give it a break.

    I think CC, Jeter, Tex would have something to say about chemistry.

    How about the pitching staff? Think they think chemistry won it for them last year? Even the pie guy would admit his pitching was more important than his pies.

    If chemistry were so important how did the Bronx Zoo ever win 2 titles?

    You don’t have to be a scientist to win the world series.

  51. t December 19th, 2009 at 2:07 pm

    The best argument for trading Swisher is that next season his salary will be 9mil which is too much. Trading him now would ensure we get a decent return for him. He is not worth 9mil especially with the quality of outfielders available next year. If we could get a prospect or a SP for him I would say pull the trigger as his salary could be used for someone like Holliday.

  52. Bret the Hitman December 19th, 2009 at 2:08 pm

    Swisher ranked 12 in OPS for OF in all of MLB. He earns 7 million this season and 9 million in 2011 with a 1 mil buyout option for 2012.

    He’s a guaranteed bargain and won’t be dealt.

    When Holliday is signed, Melky is the odd man out because he can start as a CF on most teams but would become a useless 4th OF on the Yankees.

    Why?

    Because Hoffman plays better D off the bench.

    Because Gardner runs faster off the bench.

    Because every Yankee regular is a better hitter than Melky so he would not see any PH situations.

    As a 4th OF on the Yanks, Melky isn’t needed for his D, his speed, nor his bat whereas he’s the starting CF on some teams, therefore worth more in a trade than he is to the Yankees on the bench.

  53. Erin December 19th, 2009 at 2:08 pm

    Erica, that’s a riot. I love how Grover describes Kermit’s eyes: “two ping pong balls floating in a sea of mildew” :D

  54. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 19th, 2009 at 2:08 pm

    I continue to ask this seemingly everyday and never get any real answer, but in what world is Nick Swisher not worth 9 million?

  55. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 19th, 2009 at 2:08 pm

    Ed H.
    December 19th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
    To Erica:

    Happy Birthday to you
    Who started GTLU
    You liven up LoHud’s blog
    And love Kermit frog!

    Have a very happy birthday, Erica.

    ***********

    Awwwwwwwwwwwwww.. thanks Ed :-). Thats the best “happy birthday song” so far today by far!

  56. Pat M December 19th, 2009 at 2:09 pm

    Erica…I just finished swimming my morning laps, and then I remembered, It’s your Birthday…..So Happy Bithday Erica

  57. Doreen - Ain't it Just "Grand"? December 19th, 2009 at 2:09 pm

    I don’t want Swisher traded.

    I wouldn’t understand the rationale for seeking to trade him.

    If a team wanted him (and other pieces) and the Yankees got something much needed, I would say his not an untouchable player. But I would not go out of my way to get rid of 20-plus homeruns and a guy who can work the count. I’d hope he’d be able to cut down on some the K’s, but almost every player has something you wish were better. You balance it all out. On balance, I like what Swish brings to the Yankees.

  58. blake December 19th, 2009 at 2:09 pm

    Pokey, who do you want to spend the money on next year? People keep saying that but Halladay is already gone and very few people believe Mauer or Pujols will even become free agents.

  59. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 19th, 2009 at 2:09 pm

    Erin
    December 19th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
    Erica, that’s a riot. I love how Grover describes Kermit’s eyes: “two ping pong balls floating in a sea of mildew”

    *****

    I lost it at the end when he put the fake nose and ears on Kermit. LOL

  60. mick December 19th, 2009 at 2:10 pm

    How about instead of calling it a “potential” deal we call it the “morons dreaming about having all-stars at every position w/o concerns for a budget” deal.
    ——————————————————
    oh you believe the budget hype, ok. how do you distinguish between an allstar and a great player. how did we do with our allstars last year, should we give them all back? makes you wonder who the morons are.

  61. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 19th, 2009 at 2:10 pm

    Pat M
    December 19th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
    Erica…I just finished swimming my morning laps, and then I remembered, It’s your Birthday…..So Happy Bithday Erica

    **********

    Thanks Pat M!!!!! It looks like I am spending the day snowed in with my favorite Yankee people. Not what was originally planned, but at least I get to wear pjs

  62. mick December 19th, 2009 at 2:11 pm

    I continue to ask this seemingly everyday and never get any real answer, but in what world is Nick Swisher not worth 9 million?
    —————————————————–
    uh…how about johnny damon’s.

  63. giambimustachesquad December 19th, 2009 at 2:12 pm

    What happened to the comment quality on this site? Really, everything is about how the Yankees are definitely getting Holliday, how anything less would be a disgrace. People are claiming to have inside info (yep, I bet a ton of inner circle mlb executives comment on blogs about secret info at 2 am). Also Holliday isn’t that good, to take that financial risk. No chance they sign him.

  64. Tn Yankee December 19th, 2009 at 2:13 pm

    Chad
    I like Swish, but as you say he is not on the list of “trade under no circumstances” Yankees. Therefore any trade talks depend completely on the details (who you get). Trying to convince someone of a trade without knowing that is folly.

    I’ll miss Damon and Matsui. Both added to the character of the championship team. I can’t wait to see what Grandy and Nick add (and others possibly)

  65. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 19th, 2009 at 2:13 pm

    mick
    December 19th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
    I continue to ask this seemingly everyday and never get any real answer, but in what world is Nick Swisher not worth 9 million?
    —————————————————–
    uh…how about johnny damon’s.

    ——————-

    Swisher is better than Damon

  66. Mark in Tampa December 19th, 2009 at 2:13 pm

    “MLB RF

    1. Shin-Soo Coo/Jayson Werth (take your pick)
    3. Justin Upton
    4. Ichiro
    5. JD Drew
    6. Nick Swisher”

    Is this supposed to be a list of the best RF in MLB?

    If it is, I think you forgot Nick Markakis, Andre Ethier, Bobby Abreu, and Michael Cuddyer, in no particular order.

    In a vacuum, I would take any of them except Drew over Swisher, but for the current Yankee makeup, I would take Swisher ahead of Abreu as well.

  67. blake December 19th, 2009 at 2:13 pm

    Swishers contract is a really good one (he produces more than they pay him). You want as many of those on your team as you can have and it would have to be a substantial return to trade him IMO

  68. joeman December 19th, 2009 at 2:14 pm

    I’m keeping Swish…get a 4th OF ( Gardner isn’t the answer), get a SP & go with what they have…Make a move on a OFer next year

  69. mick December 19th, 2009 at 2:14 pm

    Swisher is better than Damon
    ———————————-
    Tell that to Erica.

  70. gfd December 19th, 2009 at 2:15 pm

    Cashman has been quoted as saying how huge Swisher has been to the chemistry in the club house. His personality seems to have clicked with bringing all the players together as a team.
    Noway he leaves.

    The last 8 yrs the Yankees had great players,but no chemistry,now they have both, and a WS title to defend.

  71. CB December 19th, 2009 at 2:15 pm

    “Nick Swisher=Most unappreciated player by Yankee fans”

    By a certain segment of the fan base sure.

    But by other segments of the fan base he is amongst the most “overappreciated” yankee.

    Mariano, Jeter, Posada, Pettite, Andy, ARod, CC and Tex – all of them play for the team. That’s 1/3 of the roster.

    It was quite remarkable to watch how much credit swisher got for “club house chemistry” and even leadership on a team filled with legendary players and true professionals. Really puzzling.

  72. Aaron December 19th, 2009 at 2:15 pm

    Not to mention his value as a relief pitcher. Not everyone post a 0.00 ERA.

  73. Roger(live from Amsterdam) December 19th, 2009 at 2:15 pm

    ‘Because Hoffman plays better D off the bench.’

    Bret,how many times have you seen Hoffman play to know that he plays better defense then Melky??
    It’s ridiculous to see that some people still not see that Melky is a very talented player who’s still very young

  74. Bobindc December 19th, 2009 at 2:15 pm

    What about moving melky to right and swish to left to maximize melkys arm and range?

  75. jpb1973 December 19th, 2009 at 2:16 pm

    What happened to the comment quality on this site? Really, everything is about how the Yankees are definitely getting Holliday, how anything less would be a disgrace. People are claiming to have inside info (yep, I bet a ton of inner circle mlb executives comment on blogs about secret info at 2 am). Also Holliday isn’t that good, to take that financial risk. No chance they sign him.

    ———————————————————–

    Thank you for that post. I totally agree!!! The Yankees have more revenue than any othet MLB team, but they don’t have unlimited funds. I’d rather take a pass on Holliday and save the money for next year’s FA class which will include Cliff Lee, Carl Crawford and Huston Street.

  76. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 19th, 2009 at 2:17 pm

    mick
    December 19th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
    Swisher is better than Damon
    ———————————-
    Tell that to Erica.

    ******

    LOL… I almost had a coughing fit when I read that, but am willing to let it go since I am feeling quite defeated today

  77. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 19th, 2009 at 2:17 pm

    Mark,

    I was talking solely about best RF in 2009 because predicting all of those guys success in 2010 has way too many variables.

    In 2009 Swisher was better than Markakis, Ethier, Cuddyer, and Abreu

    He just does not have as big a name as those guys

  78. Simon December 19th, 2009 at 2:17 pm

    The last thing the Yankees need is a less than average outfielder with a strong but terribly inaccurate arm striking out in the 7th or 8th hole. You guys don’t think we could find a guy who could get on base at a .371 clip, and be faster, more athletic and better in the outfield?

    Think about it this way: that’s 16 Million we could use to get a jump on Carl Crawford next year. Imagine, Crawdord, Granderson, Cabrerea left to right. Crawford batting second.

  79. Roberto Musilini December 19th, 2009 at 2:17 pm

    Nick is too sexy to trade. Almost looks like a half porn star, half baseball PLAYA!!!!

  80. Mark in Tampa December 19th, 2009 at 2:18 pm

    “If chemistry were so important how did the Bronx Zoo ever win 2 titles?”

    I have always looked at team chemistry as being how the players play together on the field, and how their different talents mesh to become a cohesive unit. Not necessarily how well they get along, or how much they like each other.

    Although, one type of chemistry can sometimes make it easier to form the other type.

  81. mick December 19th, 2009 at 2:18 pm

    The last 8 yrs the Yankees had great players,but no chemistry,now they have both, and a WS title to defend.
    ———————————————————

    Did you forget to mention the pitching staff in your chemical equation?

    The addition of CC and AJ and a better bullpen might have helped, yathink?

  82. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 19th, 2009 at 2:19 pm

    CB,

    Yeah on the chemistry side he is very overrated, because chemistry is overrated but on his production side generally I think he is underrated.

    A good example is how the MSM was fawning over Bobby Abreu in the playoffs last year and how big a mistake it was for the Yankees to let him go. Yet Swisher is better than Abreu

  83. Pokey December 19th, 2009 at 2:19 pm

    Cliff Lee is a free agent at the end of the season. He won’t resign there. I’d rather save the money and sign him next offseason. I don’t think we need Mauer with Montero waiting in the wings, and I don’t see where Pujols would fit unless he just wanted to DH.

    And yes, I think that Hal actually will stick to a budget, especially without a Tex-type player on the market. Holliday is very good, but he isn’t on that level.

  84. Bret the Hitman December 19th, 2009 at 2:19 pm

    CB,

    If they sign Holliday, would you prefer to trade Swisher or Melky assuming fair value offers on the trade market for either? All things considered, money, talent, chemistry, etc.

  85. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 19th, 2009 at 2:20 pm

    And to add to that CB, really Posada is probably most under appreciated on this board considering the bashing he gets

  86. Simon December 19th, 2009 at 2:20 pm

    Let’s go Yankees- If you’re saying you’d rather have Swisher than Markakis or Abreu you are nuts.

  87. mick December 19th, 2009 at 2:20 pm

    Erica – always OPPC – Bring Johnny Back!!! December 19th, 2009 at 2:17 pm

    mick
    December 19th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
    Swisher is better than Damon
    ———————————-
    Tell that to Erica.

    ******

    LOL… I almost had a coughing fit when I read that, but am willing to let it go since I am feeling quite defeated today
    ————————————————————-
    Just trying to make you laugh on your birthday. Didn’t mean to choke you up.

  88. sabes December 19th, 2009 at 2:21 pm

    PeteAbe might be gone, but all the commenters he attracted are still here. Too bad.

  89. Mark in Tampa December 19th, 2009 at 2:22 pm

    “In 2009 Swisher was better than Markakis, Ethier, Cuddyer, and Abreu”

    I would have to disagree with that. Maybe he was better, or somewhat equal to Cuddyer. Also, you had him behind Drew, Swisher had a better year than Drew.

  90. CompassRosy December 19th, 2009 at 2:22 pm

    PittsburghYankeeFan
    CompassRosy, Jack Z is not going to extend both Lee and King Felix, is he? That would be around $30-40 million in payroll on a club with a $100 million budget. The M’s need a decent catcher, don’t they? Too bad they traded for Milton Bradley (yuck). Melky plus something may have worked there.

    It seems extending them both would rather imPROBable (but then we have learned that nothing is imPOSSible with Zanta Jack ;-)

    Despite the fact that Lee is likely a “rent-a-player”, there really is no downside to the deal. Jack wasn’t enamored with what he gave up prospect-wise and stands a good chance of getting something better in return either at the deadline, when a contending team is desperate OR with the draft picks that would be coming if Lee signs elsewhere. Or, maybe Lee ends up signing – you just never know.

    As for the catching situation, it is a bit iffy. Felix LOVES pitching to Johnson, but he has had THREE surgeries (both hips and one wrist, I think) this off-season. It’s not 100% certain that he’ll be ready to start the season. Adam Moore is the M’s catching prospect that they really want to give a chance to, but seems they might need a veteran of some sort, at least to start the season.

    The Phranchise
    The problem with Bedard is all I have read he has a Kevin Brown personality. Teamates don’t like him. Seattle for a while was questioning whether he didn’t want to pitch and wasn’t really hurt two years ago. I can’t remember exactly where, but I also thought I read him say some negative stuff about pitching in big markets. He just seems like a guy you would take if you were stuck and forced to sign him rather someone you would choose over the other guys out there.

    Bedard gets a very bad rep because of the “unique” way he handles the media – he really hates talking to them and about himself. But, and I’ve said this repeatedly here and elsewhere, I have never heard anything about his not getting along with teammates. Quite the opposite, they all seem to like him just fine.

    That being said, I don’t think the bright lights and media monstrosity of NY would be to his liking. And, I’ve heard it mentioned that he may not be fully re-cooped from surgery until mid-season. Seems like an incentive laden deal may be his only option….

    Tom on N.J.
    Seattle has there own Juan Miranda in Mike Carp.

    Yeah, not sure why some think that Jack Z would give up Morrow for a prospect. Short of some sort of deal for A-Gone, I hope the M’s keep Morrow. I’d like to see what he can actually do given one more year to prove himself, with a clear plan to be a starter from the beginning of ST (no flip-flopping from BP to rotation).

  91. Nick in SF December 19th, 2009 at 2:22 pm

    Happy Birthday Erica!

  92. Tn Yankee December 19th, 2009 at 2:23 pm

    Why do people waste their time commenting on commenters………oops

  93. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 19th, 2009 at 2:23 pm

    Simon
    December 19th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
    Let’s go Yankees- If you’re saying you’d rather have Swisher than Markakis or Abreu you are nuts.

    ——————-

    In 2009 Nick Swisher was better than both Bobby Abreu and Nick Markakis. That is what I am saying and I have no problem saying that.

    From 2009 on I would obviously take Markakis because of his age, salary, etc.

    From 2009 on I would rather have Swisher than Abreu

  94. @ngerman December 19th, 2009 at 2:25 pm

    Nick Swisher hit 29 homers last year and he’s going to make $6.75MM next year. That’s less than half of what Matt Holliday will probably wind up making this year. Now I’m not a genius at math, or a CPA, or a financial advisor, but that seems kind of reasonable to me. The “trade Nick” crowd is going to have to come up with a better argument than he’s too expensive for his production.

  95. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 19th, 2009 at 2:25 pm

    Nick in SF
    December 19th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
    Happy Birthday Erica!

    ******

    Thanks Mr. Nick :-)

  96. DaSaint007 December 19th, 2009 at 2:26 pm

    Mick, the Yanks didn’t want to pay Damon more than $7 mil to be DH, not to play LF. Be fair.

    Swisher has a great contact. He’s young and affordable as wel as productive enough for his position. And then there are the intangibles of his personality which help.

    Any replacement RF for him will ask for $15 mil+. Swish is a bargain.

    We have the most expensive infield known to man.
    We have the highest paid closer.
    We have the higest paid starting rotation.

    Must we have the highest paid outfield in order to win? I don’t think so. With Melky in LF, Granderson in CF, and Swisher in RF, we’re good for 2010. What we need to do is add pitching depth in case Hughes or Joba falters. Pitching depth.

    Sheets is trying to play the waiting game, and needs to watch what happened to Damon or else he’ll price himself out also. Right now we have the luxury of time on our hands due to all positions being solidified, and we’re just looking to augment what we have. Sheets is my first option, but Bedard is right behind him, and frankly I’d do both and trade one if needed. I’d also sign Wang to a minor league contrat for a possilbe late 2010 callup, which could lead to his return to the rotation in 2011.

    After pitching is done, I look at utility players, if there is a need.

  97. Mark in Tampa December 19th, 2009 at 2:27 pm

    Yes, Happy Birthday Erica, I hope you got lots of Sesame Street gear! :)

  98. RonH December 19th, 2009 at 2:28 pm

    Erica,

    Happy Birthday!! If your plans don’t come to light, hopefully you enjoy your day here!

  99. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 19th, 2009 at 2:28 pm

    Nick Swisher v Nick Markakis 2009:

    Nick Markakis: .293 AVG, 18 HR, 101 RBIs, .347 OBP, .453 SLG, 109 OPS+

    Swisher hit for a lower AVG and less RBIs (have to factor in Markakis hitting in the middle of a lineup compared to Swish at the bottom) but Swisher’s OBP was 25 points higher, his SLG was 50 points higher, he hit 11 more HRs, and Swisher’s OPS+ was 20 points higher.

  100. DaSaint007 December 19th, 2009 at 2:28 pm

    Happy Birthday Erica!!
    Wish I could wrap JD for you, but sorry!

  101. Will December 19th, 2009 at 2:29 pm

    Bret the Hitman – 2:08

    You said it all, Bret – in a nutshell.

    If Holliday comes, Swisher stays, Melky goes.

    And if Holliday doesan’t come, Swish still stays.

  102. Pokey December 19th, 2009 at 2:29 pm

    Bedard is a head-case. He’ll never live up to his potential.

  103. mick December 19th, 2009 at 2:31 pm

    DaSaint007 December 19th, 2009 at 2:26 pm

    Mick, the Yanks didn’t want to pay Damon more than $7 mil to be DH, not to play LF. Be fair.
    ——————————————

    DaSaint,if the Holliday talks, don’t think I’m going out on a limb assuming that (no inside info), fall through I’m sure they will entertain Johnny and I think he knows he’s not priority 1 right now.

    We can still live happily ever after with Johnny D., LF/DH in the Bronx.

  104. Phil December 19th, 2009 at 2:31 pm

    Swisher could really be something if he adjusts to NYS.

  105. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 19th, 2009 at 2:32 pm

    Mark in Tampa
    December 19th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
    Yes, Happy Birthday Erica, I hope you got lots of Sesame Street gear!

    *****

    Funny story- Two years ago (I was 27), my aunt gave me an Elmo backpack. It took every ounce of self control I could muster to not scream out “what am I supposed to do with this?”

  106. TarheelYank December 19th, 2009 at 2:32 pm

    Cash said it’s all about pitching.

    Three way trade.

    Swish to the Cubs for prospects that go to D-Backs.

    Joba, plus a Gardner or Pena or Cervelli type, plus 2 top Yankee prospects not named Jesus or Austin to D-Backs. or better yet, whatever configuration that Cash works out.

    Yankees get Haren and take Byrnes as a salary dump.

    Yankees take on 1 yr of byrnes at 11 mil but somewhat offset by moving Swish’s 6.75 mil.

    Re-sign Damon.

    CC
    Haren
    AJ
    Petite
    Hughes

  107. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 19th, 2009 at 2:32 pm

    Nick Swisher v. Bobby Abreu 2009:

    Bobby Abreu 2009: .293 AVG, 15 HR, 103 RBIs .390 OBP .435 SLG 116 OPS+

    Swisher again hit for a lower AVG and less RBIs, but Bobby hit in the middle of the Angels lineup. Bobby also had 20 points higher OBP.

    But Swisher hit 14 more HRs, his SLG was 60 points higher, and his OPS+ was 13 points higher. Abreu was also brutal defensively.

    The significantly more power and the much better defense Swisher played last year I think outweighs the higher AVG and OBP.

  108. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 19th, 2009 at 2:32 pm

    DaSaint007
    December 19th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
    Happy Birthday Erica!!
    Wish I could wrap JD for you, but sorry!

    *****

    Me too. And I did not win the mega millions last night so I can’t buy him either :cry:

  109. Bret the Hitman December 19th, 2009 at 2:33 pm

    I don’t like that trade proposal but I do like Haren.

  110. Mike from Sarasota December 19th, 2009 at 2:34 pm

    Secondary average, or SecA, is a sabermetric measurement of hitting performance. Secondary average is a ratio of bases gained from other sources (extra base hits, walks and net bases gained through stolen bases) to at bats.

    A secondary average higher than .500 is considered outstanding, and one below .200 is considered very poor. The league average SecA is typically similar to the league average batting average, in the range of .250-280.

  111. blake December 19th, 2009 at 2:34 pm

    Pokey, check out Hollidays 162 games averages as compared to teixera’s. I’m not saying that Holliday is as good as tex but the gap between the two is much smaller than a lot of people think. He’s certainly not 80-100 million dollars better..

  112. @ngerman December 19th, 2009 at 2:34 pm

    Abreu over Swisher? Swisher had almost double the homers that Abreu had, he walked 3 more times than Abreu and he struck out only 13 more times than Abreu. Abreu had Swish beat at batting average and OBP. I don’t think there’s any clear indication that Abreu is so much better than Swisher. So Swisher can be just as productive as Abreu, is 6 years younger, and a couple of million dollars cheaper. Oh, and Swish had 6 more double than Abreu, too.

  113. Mark in Tampa December 19th, 2009 at 2:35 pm

    “It took every ounce of self control I could muster to not scream out “what am I supposed to do with this?”

    I know, that’s the way I felt when I got a Scooby-Doo lunchbox-when I was 8. I started ditching it for brown-bags soon after. :)

  114. Pokey December 19th, 2009 at 2:35 pm

    Any chance of a deal with Damon is 99% dead.

  115. @ngerman December 19th, 2009 at 2:36 pm

    Sorry let’s go Yankees … I practically repeated your excellent post!

  116. mick December 19th, 2009 at 2:37 pm

    Swisher is nowhere near the hitter that Abeau is.

    Just because he goes 3-2 more than anybody doesnt make him a good hitter.

    In fact, he is not a good hitter at all.

    Abreau hits for average and that makes him the better hitter.

  117. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 19th, 2009 at 2:37 pm

    Andre Ethier v. Nick Swisher 2009:

    Andre Ethier: .272 AVG, 31 HR 106 RBIs, .361 OBP .508 SLG, 132 OPS+

    Ethier outperformed Swisher in every offensive category except OBP. Ethier is a slightly better offensive player than Swisher.

    However, Ethier’s UZR last year was -16.2 (I know UZR is flawed but that even for its flaws that is a HUGE difference from Swisher’s defense) If in fact Ethier’s defense was as bad as UZR says it to be Swisher was more valuable than Ethier in 2009.

  118. CB December 19th, 2009 at 2:37 pm

    Brett,

    They would trade Melky.

  119. JK (Unique Perspective) December 19th, 2009 at 2:38 pm

    Only Yankees fans would want to trade a player with the 12 highest ops amongst ALL MLB OF making 6.7M!

  120. Pokey December 19th, 2009 at 2:38 pm

    Blake, factor in the glove and he is.

  121. Pat M December 19th, 2009 at 2:39 pm

    It really makes no sense to trade Nick Swisher at this time, unless they sign Holliday and bring a pitcher in return of Swisher…..Then Melky becomes the righfielder

  122. PittsburghYankeeFan December 19th, 2009 at 2:40 pm

    Nobody’s trading Nick Swisher.

    Chad, how about a comment on Micheal Kay’s “soft underbelly” comment last night? That was a direct swipe at your blog…

  123. mick December 19th, 2009 at 2:40 pm

    Again… the trade Swisher talk is a by-product of the possible Holliday signing. Nothing personal, just a salary dump, it could be Melky or others.

  124. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 19th, 2009 at 2:42 pm

    Michael Cuddyer v. Nick Swisher 2009:

    Michael Cuddyer: .276 AVG, 32 HR, 94 RBIs, .342 OBP, .520 SLG, 124 OPS+

    For Cuddyer basically see the same description as Ethier. The difference in OBP though is pretty significant here.

    However, again Cuddyer’s UZR last year was -17.3. If in fact Cuddyer’s defense was as bad as UZR says it to be Swisher was more valuable than Cuddyer in 2009

  125. mick December 19th, 2009 at 2:42 pm

    Chad, how about a comment on Micheal Kay’s “soft underbelly” comment last night? That was a direct swipe at your blog…
    —————————————————

    Shows he’s reading and/or posting.

  126. blake December 19th, 2009 at 2:43 pm

    Pokey, as I said teixera is a better overall player because of his golf glove caliber defense and his power. However Holliday is an above average LFer and he can steal bases where Tex can’t. Holliday actually has a better Career OPs.. tex is better but not 100 million better

  127. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 19th, 2009 at 2:43 pm

    Conclusion:

    Swisher was better than Markakis and Bobby Abreu in 2009

    If UZR tells even a somewhat accurate tale of Ethier and Cuddyer’s defense in 2009, Swisher was better than both of them as well.

    I stand by my assertion that Swisher was the 6th best OF in baseball in 2009 ahead of those guys.

  128. CB December 19th, 2009 at 2:44 pm

    “Yeah on the chemistry side he is very overrated, because chemistry is overrated but on his production side generally I think he is underrated.”

    First off, the chemistry side of “Swish” or “Swishalicious,” etc. was enormous part of Swisher’s whole first year.

    And you can’t just change the original parameters of the point you were making which was Swisher was the most underrated yankee at large – which he wasn’t – not by a long shot.

    Second, I didn’t particularly find his production underrated on the whole. Again, some fans don’t value his skill sets.
    However, JMHO, but a number of fans who do value his skill set were so vocal about how great he is that on the whole I don’t think his production was “underrated.”

    His “appreciation” was just asymetrically distributed.

  129. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 19th, 2009 at 2:44 pm

    RF*

  130. @ngerman December 19th, 2009 at 2:45 pm

    Ummm … batting average isn’t everything … I hope that was sarcasm.

  131. Nick in SF December 19th, 2009 at 2:45 pm

    Prediction: Nick Swisher will be on our opening day roster.

    I know, I know, way out on a limb with that one.

  132. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 2:46 pm

    No thanks – Swisher isn’t going anywhere and this is sort of a silly thread.

  133. raymagnetic December 19th, 2009 at 2:48 pm

    “Nick Swisher v. Bobby Abreu 2009:

    Bobby Abreu 2009: .293 AVG, 15 HR, 103 RBIs .390 OBP .435 SLG 116 OPS+

    Swisher again hit for a lower AVG and less RBIs, but Bobby hit in the middle of the Angels lineup. Bobby also had 20 points higher OBP.

    But Swisher hit 14 more HRs, his SLG was 60 points higher, and his OPS+ was 13 points higher. Abreu was also brutal defensively.

    The significantly more power and the much better defense Swisher played last year I think outweighs the higher AVG and OBP.”

    I personally would rather have Abreu over Swisher if I had a choice.

    Abreu is simply a better hitter than Nick Swisher IMO.

  134. Phil December 19th, 2009 at 2:48 pm

    One of the ideas behind getting Holliday to get Melky’s bat the hell out of the line-up, not to trade a superior player and stick Melky’s bat in right.

  135. Erin December 19th, 2009 at 2:48 pm

    Erica – always OPPC – Bring Johnny Back!!!
    December 19th, 2009 at 2:32 pm

    Funny story- Two years ago (I was 27), my aunt gave me an Elmo backpack. It took every ounce of self control I could muster to not scream out “what am I supposed to do with this?”

    **************************
    LOL. Too funny

    Now,if it had been an Ernie back pack, that’s a different story. ;)

  136. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 2:50 pm

    Cashman was misquoted about Joba and Hughes…….I can’t find the exact quote, but apparently all Cash said was that IF the Yankees get a better pitcher than they are right now, then it was likely they’d compete for a spot. That’s not exactly what he said, but it’s closer to the truth apparently than that Phil and Joba right now are definitely competing for a spot.

    Damon tried to sound like a martyr and it doesn’t become him. I posted the link to the NY Post article yesterday. He said something like he wasn’t in their budget (not true – they wanted him back, but at THEIR price) and that he came down off his request big time. LOL like Johnny was doing the Yankees a favor. He came down off his ridiculous request way too late. Even had the Yanks been inclined to accept it, it would have been sleazy to reneg on a basic agreement with Johnson.

  137. CB December 19th, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    “If UZR tells even a somewhat accurate tale of Ethier and Cuddyer’s defense in 2009, Swisher was better than both of them as well.”

    Yankee stadium has an very small RF that is very easy to play. Much easier than it is to play in say Chavez Ravine.

    In addition, due to the disproportionate number of home runs hit to that portion of yankee stadium, I’d guess many of the more difficult fly balls hit to the RF portion of other stadiums never materialized into fieldable chances in yankee staidum.

    Small differences in plays fielded/fieldable chances lead to large swings in UZR.

  138. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 19th, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    CB,

    I really think your pulling at straws here. Is it necessary to discuss the merits of a statement like that? It was just a fun statement that is obviously seemingly impossible to determine its true merit because there are not really any facts to back it up. I really did not mean to start a debate with that comment.

  139. blake December 19th, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    Well said Phil.. The only way I see swisher getting traded is if its part of a bigger deal for a frontline starter. I can’t think of a player for player deal that would make sense

  140. kate December 19th, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    Don’t trade him! I think he has been a good addition to the yankees. no reason to trade him. he def stepped up when nady got hurt!

  141. m December 19th, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    What did Kay say about the blog?

  142. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    A few people want to trade Swisher (more like, are trying to get ridiculously creative in trying to figure out a way to make more moves) – that’s all. It’s no movement, most people do not want to get rid of Swisher……including the Yankees.

  143. Bret the Hitman December 19th, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    CB,

    I agree, Melky would go, thus this topic of Swisher being dealt is mood.

    We should be talking about the possibility of trading Melky.

    Not a sexy headline, I know, but still.

  144. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 19th, 2009 at 2:53 pm

    CB
    December 19th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
    “If UZR tells even a somewhat accurate tale of Ethier and Cuddyer’s defense in 2009, Swisher was better than both of them as well.”
    Yankee stadium has an very small RF that is very easy to play. Much easier than it is to play in say Chavez Ravine.
    In addition, due to the disproportionate number of home runs hit to that portion of yankee stadium, I’d guess many of the more difficult fly balls hit to the RF portion of other stadiums never materialized into fieldable chances in yankee staidum.
    Small differences in plays fielded/fieldable chances lead to large swings in UZR.

    ——————————

    That is why I started the comment with “If…”

  145. mick December 19th, 2009 at 2:54 pm

    betsy

    Don’t be surprised, if Holliday falls through, Johnny could come marching home.

  146. raymagnetic December 19th, 2009 at 2:55 pm

    “One of the ideas behind getting Holliday to get Melky’s bat the hell out of the line-up, not to trade a superior player and stick Melky’s bat in right.”

    Would have been quite easy to get Melky’s bat the hell out of the lineup by just non tendering him, no?

  147. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 19th, 2009 at 2:55 pm

    Erin
    December 19th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
    Erica – always OPPC – Bring Johnny Back!!!
    December 19th, 2009 at 2:32 pm

    Funny story- Two years ago (I was 27), my aunt gave me an Elmo backpack. It took every ounce of self control I could muster to not scream out “what am I supposed to do with this?”

    **************************
    LOL. Too funny

    Now,if it had been an Ernie back pack, that’s a different story.

    **********

    OMG- that was the most irritating part. She said when she gave it to me “I looked everywhere for an Elmo cause I know he is your favorite and he is so hard to find”.

    1) Elmo is everywhere and not hard to find
    2) Everyone who has ever met me knows that Ernie is my favorite. Seriously. We are a couple

  148. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 19th, 2009 at 2:57 pm

    I personally would rather have Abreu over Swisher if I had a choice.
    Abreu is simply a better hitter than Nick Swisher IMO.

    —————————-

    How is Abreu “simply” a better hitter when Swisher hit 14 more HRs and SLG 60 points higher?

    Those are not small differences where you can just gloss over them and say, oh whatever.

  149. mick December 19th, 2009 at 2:57 pm

    2) Everyone who has ever met me knows that Ernie is my favorite. Seriously. We are a couple
    ————————————————
    Blowing off Johnny already?

  150. The Phranchise December 19th, 2009 at 2:57 pm

    Yeah and that’s the point, it’s not move Swisher because he isn’t wanted, it’s open to moving him to address other issues this team has or will have. So if it’s a package or otherwise I would be open to moving him for sure. Who else out of the starting lineup in the majors could the Yankees move that other teams could want rather than trading Montero or a young stud prospect? Cano? Swisher? Granderson? as far as hitters. Melky is limited. Gardner is a nice piece, but not worth much. The other guys have massive contracts or are old. Cano and Granderson are major pieces for years to come. Swisher is debateable as a 7-9 hitter in the OF. He’s the most expendable and the most likely to help a team in the need of some home run pop.

  151. mick December 19th, 2009 at 3:00 pm

    The Phranchise December 19th, 2009 at 2:57 pm

    Yeah and that’s the point, it’s not move Swisher because he isn’t wanted, it’s open to moving him to address other issues this team has or will have. So if it’s a package or otherwise I would be open to moving him for sure. Who else out of the starting lineup in the majors could the Yankees move that other teams could want rather than trading Montero or a young stud prospect? Cano? Swisher? Granderson? as far as hitters. Melky is limited. Gardner is a nice piece, but not worth much. The other guys have massive contracts or are old. Cano and Granderson are major pieces for years to come. Swisher is debateable as a 7-9 hitter in the OF. He’s the most expendable and the most likely to help a team in the need of some home run pop.
    ———————————————————-

    Well said. Yours’ is a more team oriented approach and not a personality driven one.

  152. Bret the Hitman December 19th, 2009 at 3:00 pm

    Johnny Damon lives at the bank, so yeah, he’ll march there eventually.

  153. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 19th, 2009 at 3:00 pm

    CB,

    I guess the better question to ask you is, if you had to rate the RF in baseball last year where would Swisher fall?

  154. raymagnetic December 19th, 2009 at 3:00 pm

    “How is Abreu “simply” a better hitter when Swisher hit 14 more HRs and SLG 60 points higher?

    Those are not small differences where you can just gloss over them and say, oh whatever.”

    The fact that Abreu’s batting average is 40 points higher and his OBP is 20 points higher?

    Those also aren’t small differences that you can just gloss over them and say, oh whatever.

  155. anon December 19th, 2009 at 3:00 pm

    Again, welcome to Lohud, Chad.

    They’re all idiots.

  156. Laura December 19th, 2009 at 3:00 pm

    This “Trade Swisher” nonsense is just that; nonsense. I’m not a fan of Swisher’s fielding in RF (memories of that cartwheel still give me the creeps) and I wish he struck out less, but I have no problem keeping him. Unless you are getting Abreu back from LAA, Swisher is fine.

  157. upstate kate December 19th, 2009 at 3:01 pm

    Swish was willing to work on both his defense and his hitting, which both improved (and he had the terrific April). Melky lost his starting position, but didn’t mope, he worked hard. Both were valuable members of the team, and I wouldn’t want to lose either.

  158. The Phranchise December 19th, 2009 at 3:02 pm

    If Holliday falls thru? Right now the Yankees aren’t involved. This isn’t Cashman being sly. This isn’t a Tex situation. They had Swisher at 1B going into last year. A Switch hitting all star with a gold glove at first and a #3 hitter was a huge exception. Holliday is a nice player who would slot nicely in the 5th hole, but for that money isn’t the best outfielder in baseball, where does he rank? How much does he upgrade the Yankees offense. Trememndously as Tex did or just a bit better and deeper? He certainly isn’t a gold glove out there and no better than Melky in LF. Their lineup today is as good as anyones. Their pitching staff is not. And past this year Andy may be retired. You have two yung stud type pitchers, but who knows what you get this year. And everyone needs to stay healthy again which is dificult to count on. Starting Rotation is the Yankees biggest weakness and if not for the playoff schedule could have burned them this year.

  159. Nick in SF December 19th, 2009 at 3:02 pm

    “Would have been quite easy to get Melky’s bat the hell out of the lineup by just non tendering him, no?”

    I assume this was a rhetorical comment, but for anyone who might have taken it at face value: getting Melky’s bat out of the lineup would not be the primary goal in this concept; rather, replacing it with a significantly better bat would be.

    Giving away an assett for nothing would also be silly.

  160. Mark in Tampa December 19th, 2009 at 3:02 pm

    lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins),

    Don’t get me wrong, because I am fine with Swisher in RF, and I am not to be counted as one of those looking for him to be traded.

    But, if I am ranking RFers, no way am I putting Swisher ahead of Ethier and Markakis. Especially Markakis, if we are including defense and baserunning. I think Markakis and Upton are the two most talented RFers in baseball.

    I definitely like Swisher better than Abreu, regardless of what the stats might say. I think Swisher’s intangibles gave the team a boost compared to laid back Bobby. Swisher brought a lot of energy to the team this year, of course that can be debated since it can’t be quantified.

  161. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 19th, 2009 at 3:02 pm

    mick
    December 19th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
    2) Everyone who has ever met me knows that Ernie is my favorite. Seriously. We are a couple
    ————————————————
    Blowing off Johnny already?

    *********

    Johnny and I are in a pretend relationship. When I was 3 years old I told my parents I wanted to marry Ernie. LOL

  162. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 3:02 pm

    CB, I like Swisher a lot and I would not get rid of him…….but not because of chemistry. He’s a good, solid playere – productive. I don’t care that he has flaws; so what? 99% of the players in baseball have flaws. YOu want to construct a team that’s perfect (not directing this to you, CB)? Create robots – not only will they never make a mistake, they will never get hurt.

    AJ, Tex, CC, Mo, Posada, Jeter, Swish, Andy…….those are all really great guys and very good/great players. There are other people on the team who contribute to the chemistry – it’s not limited to a select few. The whole clubhouse is full of terrific people. This team will NOT fall apart because a few players are no longer here. To believe so shows a complete lack of faith in the rest of the players.

    Swisher is a valuable component to this team and the Yankees love him. Unless some fabulous RF is coming back, he’s not going anywhere. However, if he does……the team will be fine.

  163. Erin December 19th, 2009 at 3:03 pm

    Erica – always OPPC – Bring Johnny Back!!!
    December 19th, 2009 at 2:55 pm

    OMG- that was the most irritating part. She said when she gave it to me “I looked everywhere for an Elmo cause I know he is your favorite and he is so hard to find”.

    1) Elmo is everywhere and not hard to find
    2) Everyone who has ever met me knows that Ernie is my favorite. Seriously. We are a couple

    **********************
    Wow, she thought Elmo was hard to find? Had she just come out of a coma? lol

  164. mick December 19th, 2009 at 3:03 pm

    Bret the Hitman December 19th, 2009 at 3:00 pm

    Johnny Damon lives at the bank, so yeah, he’ll march there eventually.
    —————————————————–
    Bret. Isn’t it a possibility we are in talks with Holliday as we speak?

    If this is the case, would there be a need for Johnny?

    Don’t be too harsh on him yet.

  165. PittsburghYankeeFan December 19th, 2009 at 3:03 pm

    The real issue here is not Swish or Holliday, it’s Holliday or Sheets.

    Holliday wants to come to NY at a “NY” price. That’s why he has not signed with the Cardinals.

    Yankees did not target him in their org meetings. My guess in the org meetings is that they targeted Pettitte, Granderson, and one of Matsui for DH on a one year, and Damon for LF on a 1/2 year.

    Who they targeted for LF is interesting. Even if Damon played LF in 2010, my guess is that the plan was Damon DH in year 2 (if he took a two year deal at a DH price), and slide Carl Crawford into LF (he’s Matt Holliday, but from the left, and the Yankees dig the left side).

    What screwed everything up was Damon/Boras misreading the Yankees. They view Damon (properly) at this point as a DH that can play OF (a la Mike Cameron), not a LF that can DH. As such, he is only worth DH prices.

    Thus they bit on Nick Johnson to fill the #2 DH slot that Damon would have filled, at a DH price.

    This leaves LF open, and give the Yankees a dilemma:

    (1) Go for Holliday now (not in the plans) who bats right, may not have the same pop in the AL, and commits you to another $17 AAV x 5. It takes you out of the Ben Sheets free for all to occur in January.

    (2) Wait and use Melky/Gardner in LF. You can still sign Sheets for one year (maybe) and see what you have pitching wise out of Pettitte, Sheets, Joba, Phil, and maybe Wang at the middle/end of 2010. Then in 2011 go after Carl Crawford plus an arm depending on what 2010 has shown you.

    Either way the Yankees win 95-100 games in 2010 and likely 2011. It’s a good problem to have.

    Also, if I’m Hal and the team repeats in 2010, then I have like 1 week to resign Cashman and Girardi before everything breaks loose with Crawford, Lee, Beckett, etc. It’s kind of hard for Cash to make long term plans during the PS if he is negotiating his own job.

    If I were Hal, I probably would get Holliday now if the price is right, and go into 2010 with Joba and Phil. You can always recalibrate on July 31st. I’m not even sure Crawford is available in 2011. Also, if Joba and Phil pitch as projected, you slide in Lee to replace Pettitte and you’re dominant for the next three years.

  166. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2009 at 3:05 pm

    If the NYYs get a left fielder, Cabrera will be traded over Gardner for two reasons. Although Cabrera is the better player, he’s a full time player. Gardner is a 4th outfielder type. Cabrera has his hot and cold spells, but, he needs to play regularly to produce. Gardner has the speed, but, in no way is he a better player or fielder than Cabrera. Secondly, unless a team is specifically looking for a speed merchant, Cabrera will bring more value back in a deal.

  167. Erin December 19th, 2009 at 3:05 pm

    upstate kate
    December 19th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
    Swish was willing to work on both his defense and his hitting, which both improved (and he had the terrific April). Melky lost his starting position, but didn’t mope, he worked hard. Both were valuable members of the team, and I wouldn’t want to lose either.

    *********************
    kate, completely agree

  168. Laura December 19th, 2009 at 3:05 pm

    Anyone claiming that Swisher is better than Markakis needs to have their eyes examined. Markakis is a better fielder than Swisher and it’s not even close. I would also mention how he trumps him in the looks department, but that probably goes w/o saying. :P

  169. JK (Unique Perspective) December 19th, 2009 at 3:05 pm

    Kay didn’t say anything about this blog. He was probably talking about the YES network forums.

  170. Kevin (not that Kevin) Brown December 19th, 2009 at 3:05 pm

    Given that the majority of folks on this board are smart about baseball, I continue to be amazed at the number of you lobbying/begging/hoping for Matt Holliday.

    For the last time: this is a life-long NL guy (and Coors Field to boot!) who went to the AL and was an unmitigated disaster, then came back to the NL and was back to form.

    This is not about a “small sample” (in the AL); this is about a red flag the size of Texas. Committing 100M+ over 5-6 years to him in the HOPES that his little blip of a trip to the AL was an anomaly would be insane. Cash generally doesn’t do insane. If anything, at least Jason Bay proved he can play in the AL, but not a huge fan of paying him either.

    Meanwhile, has everyone forgotten what Joba looked like as a full-time starter in ’09? I for one do not see him as having the mental make-up of a starter – he seemed incapable of rationing his pitches and creating a game plan. Yes, he had those three fantastic games in a row after the AS break, but that turned out to be the exception – look at the 4-5 starts after that. I just don’t see any evidence that he can be a starter.

  171. GMAN December 19th, 2009 at 3:05 pm

    Abreu was shocked at his market value last year.
    Always a good hitter…who worked a count and got on base…his defense was in decline…especially going back on a ball.

    Abreau had some opportunities against the Yanks in the ALCS but did not deliver…Abreau is getting older but he is still a very good stick.

    I like Swish…her is also a pro’s pro.
    His BA was not good in post season last year but he came up with some very timely hits. I think he is good for the Yanks. He played big when the they lost their reg RF due to a bum elbow. Swish also carried the Yankee lineup till Alex got back.

    Keep Swish he is a Yankee…thru and thru.

  172. raymagnetic December 19th, 2009 at 3:05 pm

    Nick in SF,

    I only asked the question like that because of Phil’s assertion of getting Melky’s bat “the hell out of the lineup.”

    It made it sound like Cashman is extremely eager to do such a thing.

  173. GMAN December 19th, 2009 at 3:06 pm

    Umm typo there…

    I like Swish…”he” is a Pro’s pro…

    LOL how ’bout an edit button!

  174. blake December 19th, 2009 at 3:08 pm

    Holliday is a huge upgrade over Melky in LF. As I’ve said Holliday is a lot closer to Teixeras caliber of player than a lot of people give him credit for.

  175. mick December 19th, 2009 at 3:09 pm

    The Phranchise December 19th, 2009 at 3:02 pm

    If Holliday falls thru? Right now the Yankees aren’t involved. This isn’t Cashman being sly. This isn’t a Tex situation. They had Swisher at 1B going into last year. A Switch hitting all star with a gold glove at first and a #3 hitter was a huge exception. Holliday is a nice player who would slot nicely in the 5th hole, but for that money isn’t the best outfielder in baseball, where does he rank? How much does he upgrade the Yankees offense. Trememndously as Tex did or just a bit better and deeper? He certainly isn’t a gold glove out there and no better than Melky in LF. Their lineup today is as good as anyones. Their pitching staff is not. And past this year Andy may be retired. You have two yung stud type pitchers, but who knows what you get this year. And everyone needs to stay healthy again which is dificult to count on. Starting Rotation is the Yankees biggest weakness and if not for the playoff schedule could have burned them this year.
    =====================================================
    How do you know they arent in talks?
    Why is our pitching the problem and not finding a #5 hitter behind Arod?
    The staff is basically the same as last years. The lineup is not.

  176. Mark in Tampa December 19th, 2009 at 3:09 pm

    ‘Johnny and I are in a pretend relationship. When I was 3 years old I told my parents I wanted to marry Ernie. LOL”

    Since you are in a real relationship with Ernie, I assume you realize by now that he is gay?

  177. CB December 19th, 2009 at 3:10 pm

    “I guess the better question to ask you is, if you had to rate the RF in baseball last year where would Swisher fall?”

    I like Swisher quite a bit. And on numerous times I’ve posted what I think of his game – he’s a good player with very divergent skill sets which lead him to do certain things very well and others poorly.

    That said, I don’t generally rate players on one year of production.

    Doing on a yearly basis you’d also have to admit that Swisher was one of the worst players in baseball in 2008.

    Also, while Swisher does play RF for the yankees he doesn’t really have strong RF skill sets and would play LF for a number of other teams. As such it may be more accurate to think of him in terms of corner OF rather than RF (though the fact that he does have enough arm to play in RF is a real plus compared to LF only corners…)

    I think he’s probably one of the top 12-13 or so corner OF in baseball. Something like that.

    He’s a good player who is on a reasonable contract. No need to trade him.

  178. Bret the Hitman December 19th, 2009 at 3:10 pm

    Mark in Tampa December 19th, 2009 at 3:09 pm

    ‘Johnny and I are in a pretend relationship. When I was 3 years old I told my parents I wanted to marry Ernie. LOL”

    Since you are in a real relationship with Ernie, I assume you realize by now that he is gay?

    —-

    :lol:

  179. Nick in SF December 19th, 2009 at 3:11 pm

    Who wants to be a beard for a puppet?

    That’s some wild, wacky stuff.

    Hey, Swisher puts up good numbers for a guy who mostly batted 8th!

  180. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 19th, 2009 at 3:12 pm

    Mark in Tampa
    December 19th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
    ‘Johnny and I are in a pretend relationship. When I was 3 years old I told my parents I wanted to marry Ernie. LOL”

    Since you are in a real relationship with Ernie, I assume you realize by now that he is gay?

    *********

    :roll:

    Ernie and Bert are not gay. They are best friends. Their purpose on the show is to teach children that two people with absolutely nothing in common can still be the best of friends.

  181. Mark in Tampa December 19th, 2009 at 3:13 pm

    “Why is our pitching the problem and not finding a #5 hitter behind Arod?
    The staff is basically the same as last years. The lineup is not.”

    That is a fair point, and I would tend to agree with you, but-last year’s pitching staff was deep enough to absorb the injuries to Wang, Kennedy, and others; and to overcome the ineffectiveness of Veras, Edwar, Marte, and others.

    This year’s edition does not appear to me to be deep enough to absorb injuries or ineffectiveness by any of their top 8 pitchers.

  182. upstate kate December 19th, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    Kevin
    while I agree that Joba will probably be more valuable in the pen, I think he should have a chance as a starter…otherwise when was all that innings limits about.

  183. mick December 19th, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    #

    Don’t be too harsh on him yet.
    # PittsburghYankeeFan December 19th, 2009 at 3:03 pm

    The real issue here is not Swish or Holliday, it’s Holliday or Sheets.

    Holliday wants to come to NY at a “NY” price. That’s why he has not signed with the Cardinals.

    Yankees did not target him in their org meetings. My guess in the org meetings is that they targeted Pettitte, Granderson, and one of Matsui for DH on a one year, and Damon for LF on a 1/2 year.

    Who they targeted for LF is interesting. Even if Damon played LF in 2010, my guess is that the plan was Damon DH in year 2 (if he took a two year deal at a DH price), and slide Carl Crawford into LF (he’s Matt Holliday, but from the left, and the Yankees dig the left side).

    What screwed everything up was Damon/Boras misreading the Yankees. They view Damon (properly) at this point as a DH that can play OF (a la Mike Cameron), not a LF that can DH. As such, he is only worth DH prices.

    Thus they bit on Nick Johnson to fill the #2 DH slot that Damon would have filled, at a DH price.

    This leaves LF open, and give the Yankees a dilemma:

    (1) Go for Holliday now (not in the plans) who bats right, may not have the same pop in the AL, and commits you to another $17 AAV x 5. It takes you out of the Ben Sheets free for all to occur in January.

    (2) Wait and use Melky/Gardner in LF. You can still sign Sheets for one year (maybe) and see what you have pitching wise out of Pettitte, Sheets, Joba, Phil, and maybe Wang at the middle/end of 2010. Then in 2011 go after Carl Crawford plus an arm depending on what 2010 has shown you.

    Either way the Yankees win 95-100 games in 2010 and likely 2011. It’s a good problem to have.

    Also, if I’m Hal and the team repeats in 2010, then I have like 1 week to resign Cashman and Girardi before everything breaks loose with Crawford, Lee, Beckett, etc. It’s kind of hard for Cash to make long term plans during the PS if he is negotiating his own job.

    If I were Hal, I probably would get Holliday now if the price is right, and go into 2010 with Joba and Phil. You can always recalibrate on July 31st. I’m not even sure Crawford is available in 2011. Also, if Joba and Phil pitch as projected, you slide in Lee to replace Pettitte and you’re dominant for the next three years.
    =======================================================

    Thanks for putting things in perspective.

  184. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 19th, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    Mark and Laura,

    I very much agree that going forward Markakis is a better option then Swisher.

    However, in 2009 I think Swisher was the more valuable player. I think statistically I have a pretty good case for that statement.

    Marakis power and OBP were very underwhelming in 2009 given his numbers in 2008.

  185. Mark in Tampa December 19th, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    “Ernie and Bert are not gay. They are best friends. Their purpose on the show is to teach children that two people with absolutely nothing in common can still be the best of friends.”

    Oh.

  186. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    I don’t get why people think Melky is so ultra-talented. I mean, I love homegrown Yankees too, but they all aren’t created equal. I have serious question marks as to whether Melky will even produce what he did last year……and those are dreadful #s for a LF .anyway Why are people who want to improve on LF called out for being spoiled? I could easiy come back and say those people are being swayed by outside opinions, outsiders who believe the Yankees should be ashamed of themselves for spending $$$. I wasn’t even for Holliday……until his price started coming down. As it is, I have to think about it……but I know I don’t want Melky in LF. I want to field the best team possible – no, that doesn’t mean All-Stars at every position.

  187. Bret the Hitman December 19th, 2009 at 3:15 pm

    This year’s edition does not appear to me to be deep enough to absorb injuries or ineffectiveness by any of their top 8 pitchers.

    yep. which is why passing on Lackey leads me to believe they have bigger plans for the rotation.

  188. Phil December 19th, 2009 at 3:16 pm

    In their org meetings the big target was Roy Halladay. I think they had Matt Holliday ranked second on their board. I think that’s why things have gotten so quiet after Halladay got trade. And I think that’s why they let Johnny go. I think if they had gotten Halladay they would have kept Johnny.

  189. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 19th, 2009 at 3:17 pm

    CB,

    If the Yankees do not get Holliday I am very interested to see where they put Swisher and Melky. As you said, Swisher is more of a pro-typical LF, but in YS RF is definitely easier to play.

    Also, how do you feel about Swisher’s defense? His year to year UZR seem to be fairly constant.

  190. GMAN December 19th, 2009 at 3:17 pm

    Yanks need another SP for sure.
    One injury to the top 3 SP’s and the bull pen gets worn out.

    Question…why trade Melky, Gardner or Swish?
    All young players that are salary friendly.
    Nice because the Yanks Minor League system is thin on position players.

    Biggest value for Melkster, Gardner and Swisher…is that they are good pieces to the Yankee puzzle. Plus another year of MLB experience will only enhance the market value of Melky and Gardner…

    Bring back JD and the Yanks have great quality and flexibility among their OF’rs. And still have room to make moves after 2010 season.

  191. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 3:19 pm

    Hitters going to and from the AL/NL are fine – it’s not like pitchers changing leagues. I have no clue what an AL or NL hitter looks like? That’s because if you can hit, you can hit…..period. I’m not married to Holliday, but I’ve never seen a worse hitter’s park than Oakland. Just watching the games on TV, I was itching for the Yankees to get out of there.

  192. Erin December 19th, 2009 at 3:19 pm

    Erica – always OPPC – Bring Johnny Back!!!
    December 19th, 2009 at 3:12 pm

    Ernie and Bert are not gay. They are best friends. Their purpose on the show is to teach children that two people with absolutely nothing in common can still be the best of friends.

    ********************
    Very well said!! I was about to respond to that, and then I saw your post and realized I didn’t have to

  193. blake December 19th, 2009 at 3:19 pm

    PittsburgYankeesFan, I agree with your post and I think thats what the Yankees are trying to decide. I think Sheets will around later so they are letting the Holliday market develop and after it does they will decide which route they want to go. If they like the final price on Holliday they will buy, if not Sheets will probably still be around.

  194. Kevin (not that Kevin) Brown December 19th, 2009 at 3:21 pm

    Upstate Kate (great handle, by the way):

    But that’s what I’m saying – he DID have a chance as a starter: he was was in the rotation from Day One last year. Yes, the “innings limit” era was nasty – but look at the year he had BEFORE all that mishigas. Ugly. So bad that you’ll recall certain teammates had to have a chat with him about his attitude…

    However, having said that, I suspect that he will be given another chance because that’s why they’ve kept him. Which then leads to another question: without him AND Phil in the ‘pen, do we have have 7th and 8th inning guys?

  195. Starks in Tampa December 19th, 2009 at 3:21 pm

    I have to say, I am not sure if fans of other teams are like what I have been seeing before, but man are some of our Yankee fans dumb and very spoiled. HELLLOOO MCFFLYY!!!!!! This team won you the WS this past year, and the following players have either been discussed getting rid of via trade or other avenues because you all want a superstar in every position. To me that is childesh thinking.

    —Get rid of Swisher, we want Holliday!!!(swisher was only one of the most important players this past year)
    —Get rid of Hughes, Joba, we want Halladay, Lackey
    —Get rid of Melky, he sucks, he doesnt perform enough for a LF (this notion I laugh at when you look at the total team the Yankees field)
    —We want Cameron!!!! LOL

    it goes on and on and on…

    seriosuly I used to defend us Yankee fans when other fans would call us spoiled or just dumb but you know there is some truth to that based on these posts.

    As SJ says, the children on this borad want a superstar at every position.

    This offseason we acquired a top 5 CF, a a very good bat in that 2 hole, resigned Pettitte and yet people still clamor for Holliday and if we do not get him they make it seem like the season is over.

    unbelievable.

  196. mick December 19th, 2009 at 3:22 pm

    I still have no answer as to why Damon can’t be resigned.

    Just because they signed Johnson?

    They need a DH. Damon would still be primarily a LF.

    If the Holliday talks fall thru, if they are talking, why can’t Johnny return?

  197. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 3:22 pm

    Why can’t guys be loving friends without the implication that they are gay?

    Holmes/Watson
    Kirk/Spock
    Bert/Ernie…..

    WEll, I haven’t thought about the latter pair in ages, but still…..

  198. Bret the Hitman December 19th, 2009 at 3:22 pm

    They were never going to double pay for Halladay in cost of prospects and a 20 mil per year extension.

  199. Neil December 19th, 2009 at 3:22 pm

    Swisher started 2009 throwing floaters from RF but little mention is made of his going to pitching coach Dave Eiland that taught him a new grip to get more on his throws.
    He’ll never be a Gold Glove RF or LF but he hustles and tries hard.
    For Kevin Long it’s easy to see when Swisher goes into a slump. He’s not as selective at the plate.
    If any OF is subject to go in a deal it should be Gardner. What we see is as good as he’ll ever get.

  200. PittsburghYankeeFan December 19th, 2009 at 3:23 pm

    Melky isn’t so ultratalented–he is a bit above replacement level. BP keeps his VORP right around 2 year after year.

    The issue is which is more important right now to the Yankees:
    locking up the OF for the next 3-4 years, and rolling the dice on their two young potential studs, or going for another arm right now (Sheets) who may or may not pan out, and trusting Melky with LF?

    Who do you trust: Melky or Joba/Hughes?

  201. raymagnetic December 19th, 2009 at 3:23 pm

    “Holmes/Watson
    Kirk/Spock
    Bert/Ernie…..”

    Bert and Ernie take baths together which is why some people think they may be gay.

  202. CB December 19th, 2009 at 3:23 pm

    “how do you feel about Swisher’s defense? His year to year UZR seem to be fairly constant.”

    Regarding his UZR – I have no idea what his year to year correlation would mean because he keeps playing different positions.

    On the whole I think he got better defensively over the course of the year.

    I was suprised by how bad he was in the beginning of the year. The year before the experiment with him in CF was a disaster – but it’s not infrequent that a marginal CF when moved to a corner can become a plus corner guy and I was expecting Swisher to be better defensively than he was.

    So hopefully he does continue to improve.

    I also do think he benefited quite a bit from playing in a comparatively small RF at yankee stadium, especially early in the year when balls did seem to be flying out and Swisher was quite weak out there.

  203. blake December 19th, 2009 at 3:24 pm

    Holliday had a bad April. Teixera does every year. His numbers were right in line with his career numbers by the end of the season. He played in 2 pitchers parks in 2009 and still put up good numbers. Busch stadium was ranked the 25th best hitters park in baseball in 2009 and he raked there. The guy can hit and would be just fine in new YS.

    If they decide not to go with Holliday then its because they don’t want to commit big money to a player they don’t need to win games, not because of this “can’t play in the AL” nonsense.

  204. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 3:24 pm

    Gardner stinks……Again, just because a player is young doesn’t make him good.

  205. anjak-j December 19th, 2009 at 3:25 pm

    I’d keep him. At least if the bullpen royally chokes, we have a position player with a 0.00ERA.

    (I jest about the pitching, but I really would keep Swisher. RF might not be great, but it ain’t broken.)

  206. ADam December 19th, 2009 at 3:25 pm

    I need some baseball news!!! I’m under 2 feet of snow in DC here… as a native Upstater… i should be used to this

  207. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 3:26 pm

    Also, even if they get Holliday, they still need pitching. There are big ? in the rotation (plus, no depth) and the pen is pretty shaky.

  208. David December 19th, 2009 at 3:27 pm

    Gardner doesn’t stink. He’s a good extra outfielder. His defense is off the charts good. He’s just a real slow starter. His offense was good for a three month stretch before the broke his hand.

  209. CB December 19th, 2009 at 3:27 pm

    “If the Yankees do not get Holliday I am very interested to see where they put Swisher and Melky. As you said, Swisher is more of a pro-typical LF, but in YS RF is definitely easier to play.”

    Also, should they sign Holliday, I would not change the outfield alignment – keep swisher in RF.

    LF is yankee stadium is quite large. Part of the reason why I like Holliday is that he’s a good athelete and a plus defender – and he’s been a plus defender playing in a massive outfield in Colorado.

    Playing OF for the rockies is a big time challenge because of the sheer area that needs to be covered (I think this is part of why Brad Hawpe looks so bad by UZR every year…).

    Holliday did a good job in the OF in colorado. I’d leave him in LF with the yanks.

  210. Kevin (not that Kevin) Brown December 19th, 2009 at 3:28 pm

    Blake:

    So, bottom line, since you seem to be a Holiday fan: do you think he’s worth the money he’s likely to get?

  211. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 19th, 2009 at 3:30 pm

    raymagnetic
    December 19th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
    “Holmes/Watson
    Kirk/Spock
    Bert/Ernie…..”

    Bert and Ernie take baths together which is why some people think they may be gay.

    ******

    Ernie and Bert do not bathe together. Everyone knows that Ernie bathes with Rubber Duckie!! DUH! sigh……

  212. mick December 19th, 2009 at 3:30 pm

    What a lot of people are missing is that any Swisher deal would be salary driven to help the team in the event they landed Holliday.

    It could be Melky or Swish, even though Swish makes a helluva lot more.

    It’s nothing personal, just business…(who said that?)

  213. Frank December 19th, 2009 at 3:30 pm

    “If they decide not to go with Holliday then its because they don’t want to commit big money to a player they don’t need to win game”

    Why would WE want them to commit big money to a player they don’t need to win games?

  214. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 3:32 pm

    Ah, now I get it Ray………then they brought it on themselves. Get a shower, Bert and Ernie!

  215. PittsburghYankeeFan December 19th, 2009 at 3:32 pm

    John Sterling on Nick Johnson:

    It is high, it is far, it is GONE! Nick the Stick! Be careful rounding those bases, Nick!

  216. Phil December 19th, 2009 at 3:33 pm

    The Yanks believed they could get Halladay with prospects and know they could easily extend him at 20per. Just because they have a budget for some people, doesn’t mean they have a budget for everyone. They could double their payroll if they wanted to. They’re making money 24 hours per day. They’ve just made a decision to no longer overpay old players, like Johnny and Hit-deki.

  217. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 3:34 pm

    Mick, Damon can’t play LF all year – they’d have to either it Nick to play him at DH or sit Johnny altogether. Where would he hit? It complicates the lineup – though that’s probably not a reason for him not to comeback. More importantly, Damon is not coming back to the Yankees on his hands and knees, begging for a $7 million a year contract.

  218. Mark in Tampa December 19th, 2009 at 3:34 pm

    “Ah, now I get it Ray………then they brought it on themselves. Get a shower, Bert and Ernie!”

    Showering together instead of bathing together will do nothing to allay suspicion! :)

  219. mick December 19th, 2009 at 3:36 pm

    Betsy
    This is why I say they might be in talks re: Holliday.
    If that falls thru then Johnny and Yanks can compromise when he is needed.

  220. blake December 19th, 2009 at 3:36 pm

    Kevin,

    the price that is floating around for Holliday is around 5/80. I think anything under 100 million is a good deal for him. If they could get him for 80-90 million then I think there is a good chance he outplays that contract. We aren’t talking about 150 million, he’s not worth that. We are talking about roughly half of what Teixera got. There are zero outfielders in minors that are anywhere close to the big leagues and unless they are comfortable with Melky as their LF’er long term then they are going to have to address that spot at some point.

    Because of the economy and the market this year Holliday may come as a bargain in the big picture IMO. So yes, unless his pricetag ends up being much more than it projects to be I think he is worth it.

  221. m December 19th, 2009 at 3:36 pm

    What team’s going to take Swisher’s remaining contract off their hands?

  222. Brian December 19th, 2009 at 3:36 pm

    A very productive corner OFer who plays adequately defensively. Sees a ton of pitches. Hits with power, has a very good OBP, has a very reasonable salary and does this all from the #7 hole in the order. Why trade him? As it is we can’t fill the LF spot with anyone of his quality… now we’d have to fill another corner spot.

  223. mick December 19th, 2009 at 3:39 pm

    There is no way in hell we are going into this season with Melky the starting LF, just an opinion.

  224. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 19th, 2009 at 3:39 pm

    This is the current forecast for where I live for tonight:

    Tonight: Snow and areas of blowing snow. The snow could be heavy at times. Some thunder is also possible. Low around 22. Windy, with a north wind between 25 and 29 mph, with gusts as high as 43 mph. Chance of precipitation is 100%. New snow accumulation of 12 to 18 inches possible

    How is it possible to snow AND thunder at the same time?

  225. Frank December 19th, 2009 at 3:39 pm

    “the price that is floating around for Holliday is around 5/80″

    Think it might be more like 5/90. He’s already panned better than 5/80 twice.

  226. Eric December 19th, 2009 at 3:40 pm

    Swisher’s remaining contract is not a problem — he’s a bargain at $7 million per year. The Yanks would be crazy to trade him. He brings so much to the clubhouse in addition to his solid numbers.

  227. blake December 19th, 2009 at 3:41 pm

    “Think it might be more like 5/90. He’s already panned better than 5/80 twice.”

    Still a good deal for him IMO. Would be more in other offseasons.

  228. Pat M December 19th, 2009 at 3:42 pm

    Erica, where do you live ????

  229. blake December 19th, 2009 at 3:43 pm

    “There is no way in hell we are going into this season with Melky the starting LF, just an opinion.”

    While I’m not ready to say I’m 100% sure that won’t happen, but it doesn’t make sense that Cashman would do all that maneuvering to upgrade CF only to move the guy he upgraded from to LF.

  230. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 19th, 2009 at 3:43 pm

    half expected Lost-In-Holliday to have checked in today. I wonder how he is today…

  231. Erin December 19th, 2009 at 3:44 pm

    Erica – always OPPC – Bring Johnny Back!!!
    December 19th, 2009 at 3:39 pm
    This is the current forecast for where I live for tonight:

    Tonight: Snow and areas of blowing snow. The snow could be heavy at times. Some thunder is also possible. Low around 22. Windy, with a north wind between 25 and 29 mph, with gusts as high as 43 mph. Chance of precipitation is 100%. New snow accumulation of 12 to 18 inches possible

    How is it possible to snow AND thunder at the same time?

    ****************
    Sounds like you’re in for quite a storm.

  232. Fran (the original) and OPPC member December 19th, 2009 at 3:44 pm

    Erica,

    You’re on LI right? I am in Queens and it is sticking and blowing here. We are expecting about 12 inches here but not as windy as by you.

  233. joeman December 19th, 2009 at 3:45 pm

    David December 19th, 2009 at 3:27 pm

    Gardner doesn’t stink. He’s a good extra outfielder. His defense is off the charts good. He’s just a real slow starter. His offense was good for a three month stretch before the broke his hand.
    ——————————————–
    he’s a average OFer with speed,not a great arm average at best, he’s bad at bat…don’t know why the guy just don’t bunt every time up…if they could get a player who could play OF & IF.. I would go that route

  234. Mark in Tampa December 19th, 2009 at 3:45 pm

    “Think it might be more like 5/90. He’s already panned better than 5/80 twice.”

    Yes, Holliday would be a good deal at that price. A couple of years ago, he would have easily commanded a Beltran or Soriano contract-7/120-140M. Getting him could be a bit painful on the budget for now, but a relative bargain in the years to come.

    Also, although I don’t think the economic outlook will be much better in the country next year, if it is; players who are not as good as Holliday, like Crawford, will command much more than 5/90 in 2010-2011.

  235. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 3:46 pm

    Boras and Damon’s intransigence didn’t do them any favors. The Yankees made it clear they wanted Damon back, but Damon didn’t budge. Not only that, he talked very often and openly in the press about having other offers, that kind of thing. I’m sure Cash and Hal were thrilled at that……Boras and Damon acted like dopes this whole time.

  236. 'My heart beats when they win, and it stops beating when they lose.' December 19th, 2009 at 3:46 pm

    5/80 is definitely fair for Holliday. He will be making the big bucks, and he will be well worth the money to whichever team gets him. At that price I MIGHT be tempted to take him if I were management. At $14/$15M a year, than it’s a no-brainer.

  237. Bret the Hitman December 19th, 2009 at 3:47 pm

    Somebody must’ve muzzled ‘Lost in Holliday – In’

  238. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 19th, 2009 at 3:47 pm

    Pat M
    December 19th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
    Erica, where do you live ????

    *****

    I am right by JFK airport, but the Nassau County side

  239. leutbneot December 19th, 2009 at 3:47 pm

    DO NOT TRADE Nick Swisher. What more do you want from the guy? He put up star numbers, played the OF well, and was a positive presence in the clubhouse. We won the friggin’ World Series with him, so he clearly was the right fit, at least to a certain extent. Let the guy play! He’s young and cheap and only going to get better for the next few years.

    The real question is what’s going to happen with Matt Holliday and Johnny Damon. I went over a few options for Damon, I think he’s coming back.

  240. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 19th, 2009 at 3:48 pm

    Fran (the original) and OPPC member
    December 19th, 2009 at 3:44 pm
    Erica,

    You’re on LI right? I am in Queens and it is sticking and blowing here. We are expecting about 12 inches here but not as windy as by you.

    ******

    I am not far, but my area might be a little worse cause I am coastal on the south shore

  241. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 3:48 pm

    Fran, I’m on LI and it’s sticking. I was in the bookstore for less than an hour and a half and, in that time, it started coming down and really sticking to the cars. We’re expected to get 12-16 inches……Well, I have this blog to get me by as well as some taped shows I need to catch up on. It feels cozy to be socked in on a winter’s day…again, better than noisy, heavy rain storms

  242. 'My heart beats when they win, and it stops beating when they lose.' December 19th, 2009 at 3:48 pm

    Gardner’s speed might be considered “off the charts good,” but his defense? I beg to differ. It’s pretty good, but nothing unbelievable.

  243. blake December 19th, 2009 at 3:48 pm

    Mark, its just like with real estate. When the economy is bad the rich buy because they are getting things at a discount and they can afford it.

  244. Neckwrecker December 19th, 2009 at 3:50 pm

    I don’t get why everyone is being so negative about Melky. I love the enthusiasm he brings to the ballpark every day and his arm.

    Look at these numbers:

    .243 BA, 10HR, 56 RBI, .360 SLG, .355 OBP, 80K’s

    .274 BA, 13HR, 68 RBI, .416 SLG, .336 OBP, 59K’s

    Who would be better in left? Well the Yanks won the World Series in ’98 with player 1. I’d say Melky is a MUCH better player than Chad Curtis, wouldn’t you?? If Melky can keep his production where it’s at while playing left, he doesn’t really hurt the club’s chances of repeating. IF they can win with Curtis in left, they can win with Melky in left.

  245. David December 19th, 2009 at 3:51 pm

    Gardner has elite range in the outfield. Very few better defensive outfielders than him in terms of creating outs.

  246. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 19th, 2009 at 3:52 pm

    Cashman does seem to be talking about the 2011 free agent class a lot. I do wonder who he is targeting or has in mind.

    Maybe he is including Jeter and Rivera on that list…jk…

    Maybe he knows something about the Mauer negotiations that we do not

    Maybe he does not want to give up the sheer opportunity that Mauer becomes a free agent

    Someone that is intriguing to me is Jayson Werth. He is older and not as good as Holliday so you would think he would get less money and years. He would also balance out Granderson’s struggles v LHP quite nice. However, I think he would be a big risk on anything more then 4 years. Just a thought…

  247. Pat M December 19th, 2009 at 3:52 pm

    Erica, After I sent that I did remember that you’re out near JFK…..I’ll be thinking of you tonight as I have barberque duties tonight for a Christmas Party……It’s 83 today in Newport Beach…..I’m currently making Fresh Orange juice for screw drivers that I’ll be doing quality control tests ……Stay warm, man I don’t miss the shoveling that awaits

  248. blake December 19th, 2009 at 3:53 pm

    They won the WS in spite of Chad Curtis which makes the accomplishment that much more impressive. Just because they won the title last year doesn’t mean they shouldn’t stop trying to improve.

    You know the old saying if you’re not moving forward, you’re moving backward…

  249. Frank December 19th, 2009 at 3:54 pm

    “I am not far, but my area might be a little worse cause I am coastal on the south shore”

    Thundersnow is pretty rare in general, but I believe it happens in lake effect/ocean effect snow scenarios moreso than any others.

  250. dee December 19th, 2009 at 3:55 pm

    Let’s say we do sign Holliday for a moment. Anyone think it’ll happen before Christmas?

  251. ortforshort December 19th, 2009 at 3:55 pm

    Swisher was exposed in the playoffs for what he is – someone who can murder a fastball and can’t hit a curve. Against poor pitchers who can’t get three breaking balls over in an at bat, he either walks or murders a fast ball when that weak pitcher gives in. Against top pitching (in the playoffs), he’s a pathetic out. Swisher is not the type of player you build championship teams around. The Yankees won last year in spite of him, not because of him. Trade him if you can get team to pick up his overly high salary for a player of his low callibre.

  252. blake December 19th, 2009 at 3:56 pm

    Lets go,
    I don’t know who Cashman or everyone else is talking about either for next year. Halladay is gone, Mauer and Pujols will likely sign extensions. Crawford and Werth aren’t as good as Holliday. Beckett and Cliff Lee are all I can think of and the Sox aren’t going to let Beckett go easily. Maybe he’s just talking about Cliff Lee.

  253. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 19th, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    Pat M
    December 19th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
    Erica, After I sent that I did remember that you’re out near JFK…..I’ll be thinking of you tonight as I have barberque duties tonight for a Christmas Party……It’s 83 today in Newport Beach…..I’m currently making Fresh Orange juice for screw drivers that I’ll be doing quality control tests ……Stay warm, man I don’t miss the shoveling that awaits

    ********

    Thats why I live in a coop building. My car is parked inside and the super does all of that shovelling nonsense. And I started drinking a while ago.. very calm now :-)

  254. The Bronx Blogger December 19th, 2009 at 3:58 pm

    I hope not. The amount of “Happy Hollday” headlines will be painful

  255. Kevin (not that Kevin) Brown December 19th, 2009 at 3:58 pm

    Blake, Mark in Tampa, etc.:

    Maybe I’m mistaken but it was widely reported that the St. Louis offer to Holliday was already over $100M, so anything under that would be taking a discount to play for the Yanks.

    In any case, Blake, you make a good point that our farm system is severely undernourished in OFers who will make an Ellsbury/Markakis-like impact at the ML level in the next 2-3 years, and Mark, you are correct that next year’s batch of OF FAs will cost considerably more.

  256. Pat M December 19th, 2009 at 3:58 pm

    Blake, All that Cashman talk about next winter’s free agent list is a slight of hand diversion

  257. Fran (the original) and OPPC member December 19th, 2009 at 3:58 pm

    Betsy,

    Yes, they are saying Long Island is supposed to be hardest hit. Glad that you are home and safe. It is not supposed to be a night to be out.

  258. dee December 19th, 2009 at 3:59 pm

    “Maybe he’s just talking about Cliff Lee.”

    And if it is Cliff Lee, figure Pettitte retires, then that $11 million can go towards him as well. Then, you have to worry about Jeter and Posada’s contracts. Really, the best option in LF for the next few years is Holliday. Might as well get him now, then next year try and get Lee, extend Posada and Jeter, and a DH.

  259. blake December 19th, 2009 at 4:00 pm

    Kevin, I haven’t heard any reports of the Cards going that high. I’ve only heard 5 years around 80-85 million, maybe I’m just out of the loop.

  260. Bret the Hitman December 19th, 2009 at 4:01 pm

    Pat M.

    Agreed. Any mere mention of available options gives Cashman leverage with agents and GM’s. Not to mention, the fact that he keeps regular open ongoing dialogue with all GM’s and agents must be confusing for them whenever they try to pigeonhole him.

  261. Fran (the original) and OPPC member December 19th, 2009 at 4:01 pm

    Thats why I live in a coop building. My car is parked inside and the super does all of that shovelling nonsense. And I started drinking a while ago.. very calm now
    *******************************
    Erica,
    Same here except for the drinking part :)
    Hope you enjoy your birthday despite the weather.

  262. Frank December 19th, 2009 at 4:02 pm

    “Maybe he’s just talking about Cliff Lee.”

    Wouldn’t be shocking. Might also be thinking about Jeter and Rivera. Yankees have $144M and change locked in already for 2011. Assume for the sake of argument, Jeter and Mo are level funded and Lee costs $18M. That adds $53M to that $144M. And Hughes and Joba hit arbitration for the 1st time. Signing Holliday could conceivably keep them out of Lee for next year if a similar budget is in place.

  263. David December 19th, 2009 at 4:03 pm

    Swisher wasn’t exposed as anything. He had a slump at the wrong time. Just like A-Rod and Matsui had slumps in previous postseasons. What will it take for people to understand small sizes. Was Teixeira exposed too, or was that just a slump?

  264. lets go yankees (formerly lets go twins) December 19th, 2009 at 4:03 pm

    I would like Werth on a 4/60 type of contract

  265. Mark in Tampa December 19th, 2009 at 4:03 pm

    Erica,

    Do you live in Long Beach? My brother and his family live there, on Alabama St.

  266. Kevin (not that Kevin) Brown December 19th, 2009 at 4:03 pm

    Blake, and maybe I just believed what Boras was floating, which makes me an idiot…

  267. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 19th, 2009 at 4:04 pm

    Mark in Tampa
    December 19th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
    Erica,

    Do you live in Long Beach? My brother and his family live there, on Alabama St.
    *****

    No, but very close. I am 5 minutes from the Atlantic Beach Bridge which connects to Long Beach

  268. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 4:04 pm

    1998 was a long time ago – times have changed and certainly the East has changed. This is a terribly difficult division and you want every advantage you can get. Why have a mediocre/poor player out there if you can avoid it?

    Fran, thanks – you stay safe as well. Nope, tonight I’m going to be warm and toasty in my house, all safe and snug.

  269. Frank December 19th, 2009 at 4:05 pm

    “Maybe I’m mistaken but it was widely reported that the St. Louis offer to Holliday was already over $100M, so anything under that would be taking a discount to play for the Yanks

    I believe the Cards offer featured 5 guaranteed years at a little over $16M and several option years, which if picked up, could extend it to as long as 8 years and well over $100M.

  270. Tom on N.J. December 19th, 2009 at 4:06 pm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....eature=fvw

  271. Mark in Tampa December 19th, 2009 at 4:06 pm

    Kevin (not that Kevin) Brown,

    If you are talking about the reported 8 year/120M deal, I think that was later reported as erroneous. The only concrete(we think) #s coming out this last week are 5/80 by the Cards, and an old 5/82.5 by Boston.

  272. blake December 19th, 2009 at 4:06 pm

    If the Cardinals offer was that great he would have already signed on the dotted line.

  273. Betsy - high on pie December 19th, 2009 at 4:07 pm

    Pat M, I think so too – Cashman is the David Copperfield of GMs. I don’t know that his plan includes Holliday – I stil doubt it – but he wanted to resolve LF and it hasn’t been. I know the Yanks love Sheets, but that’s not getting done quickly, so Cash has the time to figure out what he wants to do with LF.

    Yum, barbeque…..

  274. dee December 19th, 2009 at 4:08 pm

    “If the Cardinals offer was that great he would have already signed on the dotted line.”

    Agreed. He’s obviously holding out for something. Whether it’s more money or an offer from a different team, but the fact that he hasn’t signed yet makes me a bit skeptical.

  275. wallypip December 19th, 2009 at 4:10 pm

    Beware small sample sizes!

    Swisher posted a .380 OBP with runners in scoring positon. In 146 opportunities he was 3 hits short of his average and got a couple of extra walks. I’d say he’s about the same hitter in the clutch as he is any other time.

    As for trading him, I don’t see it. Aside from the many other eeasons mentioned, I think the rich free agent class of next year may open up some trading opportunities during the season from teams that do not want to let a player walk for nothing. Swisher could make a bigger deal possible.

  276. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 19th, 2009 at 4:10 pm

    new thread :arrow:

  277. Frank December 19th, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    “If the Cardinals offer was that great he would have already signed on the dotted line.”

    Boras wasn’t going to sign anything without seeing what the guys just behind him in the hit parade (Bay and Lackey) got. Boras will not have Holliday sign for less than(or even the same) Lackey.

  278. blake December 19th, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    He is waiting for the Yankees to make an offer. If the Yankees were absolutely not interested as some on this blog like to say then I think he would have already re-signed with the Cardinals after the Lackey signing.

  279. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    David
    December 19th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
    Gardner has elite range in the outfield. Very few better defensive outfielders than him in terms of creating outs.

    ————————————————————

    You’ve said the same thing twice in 20 minutes…and, guess what? You were wrong both times. Did you miss his center field play during the post season? He can’t track flies, he can’t go back on balls and he can’t throw. His speed is exceptional, so he can outrun some of his mistakes, but, that’s generally going to hus left and right. Basically, he’s somewhat above average….because of the speed.

  280. Frank December 19th, 2009 at 4:12 pm

    Sorry, I meant Boras wasn’t going to have Holliday sign anything without seeing….

  281. David December 19th, 2009 at 4:22 pm

    Sorry Green Beret. You are wrong and all the defensive metrics show it.

  282. Rich in NJ December 19th, 2009 at 4:24 pm

    I would trade any player if the deal is right. The only reason to trade Swisher apart from that is if they sign Holliday, and they need more payroll flexibility in 2011 when Swisher will make $9m.

    You can see that Gardner has elite defensive potential with or without advanced defensive metrics.

    He’s MUCH better defensively than Ellsbury.

  283. Kevin (not that Kevin) Brown December 19th, 2009 at 4:28 pm

    I tend to agree that if the Cardinals offer was that big, he would’ve jumped – that is, if he wasn’t repped by Boras. Boras never takes the first big offer. But Mr. Holliday should be paying close attention to the sad case of Mr. Damon, where Boras cost him his shot at the only team he really wanted to play for.

  284. Joe December 19th, 2009 at 4:50 pm

    read a post at mlbtraderumors about the mariners possibly trading one of their young players for a corner outfielder/dh type. they mentioned brandon morrow for mat gamel of the brewers. not saying I want to trade swisher, but what about swish for morrow? too crazy a thought?

  285. ajw December 19th, 2009 at 4:59 pm

    I see no reason to trade Swish. He is an integral part of this current Yankee team.

  286. Enough Pitching Changes December 19th, 2009 at 5:03 pm

    I don’t get the swisher trade rumors..what are they going to get for him? Not much…Are the yankees really going to sign Matt Holliday? I don’t see it..I think I like jason bay better myself. He has proven he can play in the american league east..but saying that I would not sign either bay or holliday

  287. Otto December 19th, 2009 at 5:41 pm

    I thought when they signed Johnson they would look to trade Swisher. Send him to the Braves for Vasquez. Then sign Holliday or Damon. I love they say Joe Torre was insulted. Torre most overrated manager in baseball. Swisher is below average outfielder and below average hitter. Great Personality but did nothing in October when it counts. To me it does not matter if they trade him or keep him but if you could get 3, 4 starter for him I do it in a heartbeat. Bring back Javier.

  288. jake December 19th, 2009 at 5:42 pm

    Most of the comments I read on this board are emotional and based on misinformation. Some of the posters are great, knowledgeable, reasonable fans. Many are not.
    I think that the “trend” regarding the “trade Swisher” comments begins with the irrational, overly emotional fans.
    And, if anyone out there disagrees with me, so be it. I’m not disputing that folks have the right to post ridiculous emotional arguments. But if you make no sense, you make no sense.
    Trading Swisher makes no sense. The Yankees love him. Most fans love him. He loves the Yankees. He’s a bottom-of-the-order hitter who switch-hits, hits homeruns, drives in runs, gets on base like a top-of-the-order guy, plays a decent right field, and has a reasonable contract. There is no way in the world that the Yankees could get something better in exchange for him. Moreover, Cashman has his eye on next year and knows that, if he has to make the choice, using his money to buy Cliff Lee and Carl Crawford might make more sense than using it to buy Matt Holliday.
    Now, those of you so inclined can go back to your hyperbole.

  289. Brandon AWESOME! (BECAUSE In New York! Kate Hudson is what dreams are made of!) December 19th, 2009 at 5:54 pm

    “read a post at mlbtraderumors about the mariners possibly trading one of their young players for a corner outfielder/dh type. they mentioned brandon morrow for mat gamel of the brewers. not saying I want to trade swisher, but what about swish for morrow? too crazy a thought?”

    Put yourself on the mariners shoes, would you trade Morrow for Gamels or Swish…If I can get Morrow than I’d let go of Swish, but TBQH that’s not going to happen b/c the M’s aren’t that stupid. Plus if we lose Swish..I’m gonna be honest our locker room is so fragile, we can’t go into the stone face, corperate Yanks again b/c they play tight, this season it was a looseness that allowed everyone to play up to thier abilities, some even exceeded.

    Now unfortunately I must watch “Raising Helen” a deal is a deal. :(

  290. joe yankee December 19th, 2009 at 7:01 pm

    There’s no reason to trade Swish. He’s done everything that’s been asked of him. Sure, he’s not the world’s greatest fielder, but he’s solid enough. And though his batting average was a little on the low side, he got enough clutch hits and banged enough homers to hold up his end of the bargain, plus he walked a lot and made pitchers throw a lot of pitches. Aside from that there are the intangibles. The fans in right field love him. It’s a fun relationship to watch. At spring training this year, no one signed more balls than Swisher. He stood and signed out by the fence, and then again on the field before and after the game. And he took the time to look people, especially kids, in the eye and make conversation. Then there’s the whole chemistry thing with his teammates. No question, he helped loosen up the clubhouse. He’s funny and a little crazy and keeps things interesting. And the media loves him, too. Much like Damon, Swisher was there — win or lose — to answer questions about the game, the team, his performance. Many of the players shower and leave without offering any comment, especially after a bad game. Not sure Swisher will be manning right field forever, but for right now, I wouldn’t dare trade him, especially with Matsui and probably Damon — both talented and popular guys — gone from the team.

  291. ajw December 19th, 2009 at 7:19 pm

    I like your insight Jake.

  292. Joe December 19th, 2009 at 7:22 pm

    “read a post at mlbtraderumors about the mariners possibly trading one of their young players for a corner outfielder/dh type. they mentioned brandon morrow for mat gamel of the brewers. not saying I want to trade swisher, but what about swish for morrow? too crazy a thought?”
    Put yourself on the mariners shoes, would you trade Morrow for Gamels or Swish…If I can get Morrow than I’d let go of Swish, but TBQH that’s not going to happen b/c the M’s aren’t that stupid. Plus if we lose Swish..I’m gonna be honest our locker room is so fragile, we can’t go into the stone face, corperate Yanks again b/c they play tight, this season it was a looseness that allowed everyone to play up to thier abilities, some even exceeded.
    Now unfortunately I must watch “Raising Helen” a deal is a deal.

    Ken Rosenthal reported it. Seattle’s GM was the Brewers scouting director. This is the same guy that just acquired moody Milton Bradley, though he give up the terrible contract of Carlos Silva. With the acquisition of Bradley, I’m sure they will hold on to Morrow. As far as the M’s not being stupid enough to trade Morrow for Swish, I agree it wasn’t likely to happen. But GMs have made stupid trades before, and they will again.

    Enjoy your movie!

  293. pete December 19th, 2009 at 8:21 pm

    remember, folks, a walk = a hit, and a strikeout = just about any other out.

  294. HeavyHitter December 19th, 2009 at 8:38 pm

    Swisher played a great right field in the playoffs. Unfortunately, his bat was just starting to heat up when they ended. In other words, chalk up his poor hitting in the playoffs to samll sample size.

  295. Berdell Hardy December 20th, 2009 at 2:35 pm

    I agree with Dee…’a very good post, Chad. Swish’s value lays more than in his hitting. He’s helps kep the team ‘light’. If the Yanks need to trade anybody, ‘think’ Gardner or Cabrera.

  296. Berdell Hardy December 20th, 2009 at 2:37 pm

    I accept the ‘terms’, as currently listed. Berdell Hardy

  297. rick roth December 20th, 2009 at 7:12 pm

    Swisher looks like a jerk every time he climbs the wall on home runs that land 20 rows behind him…..

  298. The Leftjab December 20th, 2009 at 9:12 pm

    trade cano to the dodgers for matt kemp. trade melky to the cubs for theriot. trade swisher for a young arm -maybe ATL, NYM or STL who might not get holliday back. this clears salary for next year when carl crawford, joe mauer and a boatload of free agent pitchers are available hit the market. i’d also offer hughes and joba to FLA for josh johnson and sign valverde to set-up. expect the yanks to go on a spending spree next winter with crawford, mauer and cliff lee landing in the bronx in 2011.

    let the hating begin…

  299. Rich M. December 21st, 2009 at 12:51 am

    How about this? Instead of the “let’s sign every freaking free agent all-star out there” approach, they:

    Send Joba, Melky/Cano and Jesus Montero to Baltimore for Adam Jones and Kam Mickolio.

    The O’s get three cheap, young players – one to fill a rotation slot, one to play CF in Jones’ place, and the kid to eventually come up and platoon with Wieters at c and 1B for the next umpteen years.

    The Yanks get their CFer (24 y.o.) of preference, move Granderson to LF, whoever between Cabrera and Gardner stays is still their # 4 OFer, and they get their 7th inning RP (25 y.o.) in front of Robertson and Mo.

    Nice.

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