Snowed in
Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Dec 20, 2009 
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I was awakened this morning to a phone call from a family member raving – and complaining – about the incredible accumulation of snow, and it reminded me of another time when something similar happened.
On the morning of April 7, 2003, the phone rang and it was the Yankees. PR assistant Ben Tuliebitz (who is now the Yankees excellent traveling secretary) was on the line to let me know that the game that day – Opening Day! – had already been canceled. Too much snow.
The next day, when the game against the Twins was finally played, there were literally snowdrifts in the dugouts and the game was played in freezing temperatures. Those fans who did show up – and I’m sure plenty of them are on this board – didn’t get to see full-on player introductions (that was canceled) but they did see a pretty dramatic game, with Hideki Matsui making a great play in the field (!!) and hitting a grand slam in his Yankees debut.
In an odd coincidence, that game was against the Twins and when Matsui makes his Angels debut in April it will also be against the Twins. I’m going to go out on a limb and say he won’t be snowed out again (the game is in Anaheim).
For those of us still in the Northeast, whiteouts like this one are a good opportunity to look at the calendar and count how many days are left until spring training. As you finish your shoveling today, just remember that baseball isn’t so far away. Only 60 days to go until the first workout, 105 until Opening Day at Fenway. Hopefully the snow is long gone by then.
Repost from previous thread:
-Looks like Nick Johnson played 2 games for the 2002 Yankees. I wonder if Girardi would ever consider running him out there. I would guess no, except in extreme emergencies.
-With Nick J in the fold, I wonder if there is still a price low enough that Cashman would bring Damon back to LF? There are just so few teams where Damon could play right now.
Very good post. I’m hoping that we won’t miss Matsui too much, but for some reason I doubt that. He had some great moments with the Yankees and the Yankees will regret picking Johnson over him. I don’t regret the Damon move, though.
Very good post. I’m hoping that we won’t miss Matsui too much, but for some reason I doubt that. He had some great moments with the Yankees and the Yankees will regret picking Johnson over him. I don’t regret the Damon move, though.
That was one hell of a game. Matsui was/is everything you like to see in a ball player. He’s a class act and a profession in every sense of the word. The fact that he apologized for getting injured a couple years ago solidifies his commitment to his team, the fans, and the front office.
While I absolutely abhor the Angels, I’ll be rooting for Matsui in the boxscores this year. I understand and support the Yankees decision, as youth is the name of the game, but Matsui made his time here special and went out with a bang.
Godspeed to him, and I wish him all the best.
Repost from the prior thread. Off Topic :
CB-
Would you consider answering a question for me since I am by nature a curious person. I will be perfectly fine with it if you do not care to answer.
Are you a reasearch scientist. Possibly a Biology type.
It is obvious your have a command of Statistics and probability.
You seem formally trained to me.
You might also be a mathematician but they are usually a lot more boring than you are.
I’m thinking some type of researcher maybe a college type.
I’d love to test my perceptive powers. Thanks in advance if you care to answer.
Sam-
With Global Cooling underway. You never know.
I don’t think that the Yankees picked Johnson over Matsui. From everything written, it appears that Damon was their first choice and Matsui their second choice. Matsui didn’t want to chance waiting and having the opportunity to play for the Angels and the Yankees both be gone.
I think a lot of fans will miss Matsui tremendously. He was great for the team and he was fun to watch. Unfortunately time is catching up with Godzilla, and it put him on the back burner while the Yankees were working on their options.
Another thing to think of his Matsui might have been interested in making the move because of the warmer weather they will usually play in. His knees might benefit from that. (That was posted by someone last night having read an article from an old coach of Matsui’s in Japan.)
Abda-
In addition to being a great Yankee Matsui seem to posses another quality we can admire(at least I do).
Humility. He was a Godzilla of humility as well.
How many ball players would APOLOGIZE publicly to their team
mates because they were unfortunate enough to break their wrist.
I found that amazing !
I remember that game!
I miss Matsui already
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....day-1.html
better yet, if Bay would’ve given a hometown discount he would be in Seattle right now.
this is what fans don’t understand. When you already have millions, why does a couple million extra matter, when it often means being in a less attractive place and/or situation? It makes me love Andy Pettitte even more
Erin-
He is is a better place. At least as far as his knees go !
Vinny-
and it makes you wonder about Holliday as well.
Erin: were you there? Anyone who was probably remembers freezing their tails off!
MTU
December 20th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
Erin-
He is is a better place. At least as far as his knees go !
*********************
You’re right. And he’ll always be a Yankee to me!!
Bay’s mistake was not accepting the RS’ offer.
Sam, I wasn’t there, but my cousin and his girlfriend were. They still talk about that game all the time!
Will definitely miss Hideki.
Can’t wait for P&C!
Thanks for the great coverage, Sam and Chad.
(also, any updates on Joba and Hughes and how their winter workouts are going would be greatly appreciated.
)
MTU: agree with your takes on Boras, involving the Arod “opt out” 2 yrs ago, and his handling of Damon this year.
however, i don’t see how you can put the “dilemna” Matt Holliday faces on Boras (as reported yesterday eve). The market is the market. And if the market for Matt Holliday is not there, it’s not there. Jason Bay has a different agent and he is not faring any better then Holliday at the moment. As long as Holliday has standing offers from ST Louis and a mystery team or 2, he remains in a decent situation. Not ideal, but decent
I think I remember Johnson in LF. It was against the Rockies at Coors. He wasn’t very good at it.
I’m really going to miss Matsui too, but a lot of people seem to forget that he really wants to play OF, and the Angels are offering him that chance. It will be interesting to see how long that lasts.I don’t agree with some of the thinking that goes “the Yankees picked up Johnson just because they wanted to get younger”…they just weren’t able to offer Matsui the realistic opportunity to play OF.
I’m hoping Matsui continues to play at the level he did here, because I always saw him as the epitome of professionalism. That said, I hope Nick Johnson stays healthy and puts up 40 HR from the #2 spot in the batting order! If he does that, no one will be missing Johnny Damon (unless he’s your PBF)!!!
erin-
your memories are yours to keep forever. As long as you dont forget.
Alas. the physical manifestation of Matsui has moved on.
Swisher is fine in RF – I really don’t get the problems people are having with him. The Yankees love him – they don’t have a problem with him.
Holliday will just end up being another burdensome contract – we’ve got a ton of those. I do think we need major upgrade in LF – possibly a trade?
As to pitching, I’m starting to be more inclined to just letting Joba and Phil go. I think Phil will be a stud, but not in 2010 – in 2010, he’s just going to be a #5 pitcher and that’s what he’ll pitch like. That’s fine. If Joba pitches well (doesn’t have to be great), then we’re probably ok…….with the added bonus that we now have 2 young pitchers on their way to major league success. The problem is (and it’s why I think Joba is the key) that I have no idea what we will get from Joba, none at all.
I’m fine with going after Sheets (but that’s not happening until January it seems), but who knows if he’ll even want to come here? He may want to stay in the weak NL…..he may not want to come to the Yankees period.
vinny-b (NJ and Granderson – thank you Cashman!)
December 20th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/…..day-1.html
better yet, if Bay would’ve given a hometown discount he would be in Seattle right now.
this is what fans don’t understand. When you already have millions, why does a couple million extra matter, when it often means being in a less attractive place and/or situation? It makes me love Andy Pettitte even more
——————————
Tell that to Mike Lowell who left 12 million on the table to return to his beloved Red Sox. 2 years later they have tried to trade him twice and on his way out this time tried to make it seem like he was the bad guy in this situation.
I think Andy has been in a different situation. He is not dying to play baseball anymore. He just loves the competition and loves to win. If the Yankees were to lowball him, he would just retire.
I’ve only been to two opening days. ’96 in the snow and ’03.
“Bay’s mistake was not accepting the RS’ offer”
——————————————
personally, if were in Bay’s shoes i would’ve picked Seattle. He is from Vancouver/BC, and it was reported to be his dream to play there
I can very easily see the Yankees trading Melky to the Cubs for Ted Lilly and his 1.06 WHIP, then turning around and telling Bor-ASS that Johnny D is welcomed back to play LF for a year at $7.5M. I have a feeling Damon jumps at that offer, and the OF has Damo in left, Granderson in center and Swisher in right, with Gardy as no. 4.
Vinny-
that’s where we disagree I think one of Boras’s main jobs is to be to correctly judge/forecast the market.
You seem to think he bears no responsibility for that. I do.
He has to try to be a good forecaster to be a good negtiator.
they are intertwined.
I think Bay hit the market at the absolute worst time.
Owners are cutting back on spending, big market GMs are getting smarter with who they give out long contracts to, and defense has never been valued as high
“Tell that to Mike Lowell who left 12 million on the table to return to his beloved Red Sox. 2 years later they have tried to trade him twice and on his way out this time tried to make it seem like he was the bad guy in this situation”
—————————————————–
point taken. Frankly, i view the RedSox as a ‘special case’. They have a history of mishandling/mistreating/slandering players dating back to Mo Vaughn. As a MLB player they would be one of the last organizations i would choose, and being a yankee fan has nothing to do with this.
Vinny-
I would say one more thing. I dont think it’s ALL boras’s fault because Holliday should be able to make his own determinations and not rely SOLELY on his agent. The agent advises Holliday decides. That’s the way i see it. I could be wrong.
Almost no one leaves millions on the table. A million bucks is a million bucks even to a multimillionaire.
Too bad for Lowell as I think he’s a good guy but that non-trade really helps the Yanks.
If the Sox can’t rid themselves of Lowells salary then most likely they’re done making moves.
It would be hard to convince me that Boras didn’t orchestrate Alex’s return to the Yankees, and it did it masterfully.
Ahhhhhh ……… yes !
http://www.ballparkreviews.com/tampa/legends.htm
bronx-
and even multi-millionaires can loose perspective. if you get my drift.
meant to say “lose” not “loose” .
21 inches here in Baltimore… they moved the Ravens game from 1 to 4:15. The bears had a hard time getting here. Didn’t get in until 11:30 last night.
GO JETS!
Stan
December 20th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
Ahhhhhh ……… yes !
http://www.ballparkreviews.com/tampa/legends.htm
*******************
Stan, to borrow a phrase from 30 Rock, “I want to go to there”
off topic :
Wow !. I can be made even happier. The return of the Wangster.
behold.
•Cafardo also mentions that, while plenty of teams are interested in Chien-Ming Wang, the Yankees hope to match any final offer the right-hander receives
Not likely but their is still hope.
MLBTR.
I know there are those who are concerned about NJ’s lack of speed and possible issues going first to 3rd or scoring from 2nd. Johnson will be fine. I thought he would anyway, but I specifically called my brother in Florida to ask him….he said NJ has no problems scoring in those situations.
(repost):
#
“That is an overly narrow way to view the issue, and unhelpful in this context.”
Not at all. There’s no sampling in the data. As such “any generalizability” would depend on the conceptual and theoretical basis underlying the analysis – it’s not going to be found in the data.
Qualitative analysis can be extended from that theoretical basis in ways in which data can’t.
“When the player has been in the MLs for six seasons it is.”
No its not. The problem still stands – and this is a very common problem with time series analysis of “trends.” In fact it’s one of the chief limitations. The unit of analysis often doesn’t provide enough data points to establish anything as a valid “trend.”
That’s just the way it is and what that forces the analyst to do is to temper any conclusions that might be drawn and not chalk something up as a true “trend.”
(repost):
“If you want to ignore the trend by postulating hypothetical changes in the data points, that’s your right, but you are overlooking potential red flags that shouldn’t be ignored.”
It’s not hypothetical at all. There’s not a lot of good methodological work on this as far as I know, but it appears UZR error rate is at least around +/- 5 runs.
So Granderson’s uzr could very well have been 6.6 rather than 1.6. Coversely, it could have been -3.4.
That’s not hypothetical.
MTU, that’s great news about Wang. I would love to have him back.
Make a note: there will be a game stopping standing ovation for Hideki his first AB back at Yankee stadium, April 13, 2010, the first game of a three game visit.
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....038;y=2010
Matsui will be missed whether they replace his offense or not. The sense of respect he had for the game and the honorable manner in which he conducted himself will be as remembered as his 2009 WS MVP.
“that’s where we disagree I think one of Boras’s main jobs is to be to correctly judge/forecast the market.
You seem to think he bears no responsibility for that. I do.
He has to try to be a good forecaster to be a good negtiator”
——————————————————–
MTU: am in total agreement with this statement. It is why i hold Boras (but also Damon) responsible for Damon. When people like you, CB, me and others can lay back and forecast (rather accurately) what is going to happen to Damon in the 20009 marketplace based on Bobby Abreu and other factors, then this shouldn’t have happened to Damon.
per your other statement, would like to believe ultimately these players do get “pick” their team in the end. They are grown men not indentured servants. Side note: Would like to know SJ44′s prospective on this specific matter.
Erin-
Let’s not get our hopes up to high just yet but at least there is hope.
I really thought that might be a dead issue I am glad to see that it may not be.
m, and Nick will be happy when they see it.
I know there are those who are concerned about NJ’s lack of speed and possible issues going first to 3rd or scoring from 2nd. Johnson will be fine.
************************************
Betsy,
As long as he is on base for Tex and ARod. You always like to see them up with runners on.
How are you doing with the snow? Ended up with about a foot here in Queens. They have begun plowing us out.
MTU
December 20th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
Erin-
Let’s not get our hopes up to high just yet but at least there is hope.
I really thought that might be a dead issue I am glad to see that it may not be.
m, and Nick will be happy when they see it.
*********************
I’ll try not to get my hopes up, I was just happy to see that there is still some interest on the Yankees part.
MTU, I don’t think anyone can realistically read this market. There are too many variables being thrown in that have nothing to do with baseball and everything to do with the current political divide.
It has the stock market in a turmoil just as much as these baseball negotiations.
Boras does a good job, but he will make his mistakes. I think in Holliday’s case, as can be witnessed here, the value placed on him is all over the map.
Boras also has to deal with the players who sign with him, and not all players are equal.
If this economy looked better than it does now, and the forecast isn’t all that rosy for a lot of cities, Holliday would be far more expensive. The thing Boras is working to do is show that his contract is worth what they have to spend to get him, as the economy will at some point turn around.
The health care and AGW situation has a lot of businesses running scared. They know the costs will rise and that means less investing in their companies. The same will hold true for baseball.
Its why the Yankees, with their very diversified income can make fiscal moves others can’t. There are limitations though.
I also hope that Wang remains with the Yankees. I don’t fault Nero for working Wang as a FA. Its for his client’s best interests. It sets the market and allows him to help evaluate what is best for Wang. It also keeps the Yankees in play for him to return.
I think the Yankees appreciate Wang’s abilities, but have reservations about him as well. As in all things its about balance.
Fran, we got a lot of it – I don’t know how much, but I do know that they haven’t begun plowing my street. The guy next door has sort of a mini-snow plow, so if things get bad enough, he’ll help us out.
edit: my spelling was terrible in the above paragraph. Half-asleep : )
Erin-
I am not only happy because it may mean we will be able to bring back a great former yankee (if healthy) but also it provides the opportunity for an injustice to be corrected.
I am in the camp who believe that the yankees mishandled Wang
in a number of ways and i would like to see them make it right.
JMHO.
Reposted from last thread:
As CB said, baseball stats are by and large descriptive of past performance rather than predictive of future performances. Inferences can, and often are made based upon stats, but those are individual judjments rather than statistically based predictions.
My point above was that the small sample size for Brett Gardner makes it unwise to be the basis for forming a conclusion. Not only is the number small but it is even less valid as a basis upon which to estimate future performance for two important reasons.
Gardner’s performance is a moving target because not only is the sample size small but he is at the beginning of his career. One would expect there to be potential for improvement in each of the areas of Gardner’s game (hitting, fielding, base running.) In fact, there was sizeable improvement in his performance from his cup of coffee in the majors in ’08 and his very limited numbers in ’09. Gardner can be expected to continue to adjust to the league and the league will continue to adjust to him. Where does the competitive balance finally lie? We really don’t know. Small sample size, moving target.
The other reasons why conclusions cannot be drawn based upon Brett’s numbers is that his performance seemed to be impaired by his injury last year. He missed about a month of playing time. After he returned, he hit no triples, no homers and (based only upon my subjective observation) seemed to strike out more than he did before the injury. (Sorry, I don’t know where to look up the actual numbers on this.) Small sample size, moving target, physical impairment negatively skewing numbers.
For these reasons, I believe that Brett Gardner’s career and his value to the Yankees could wind up being almost anything. He could become a very fine starting center fielder or a bench player or he could wash out of the league within a couple of years.
That said, I think that the team should make a point of keeping Brett as a role player this year, spelling starters on days off, pinch running, coming in for defense in late innings. He already has two assets in which he is the best player on the team, running and range in the outfield. It doesn’t make sense to develop a player for years and to dismiss him before you even know what you’ve got. This is what the Yanks did, to their detriment, for many years before Brian Cashman took over. Don’t make him a starter, don’t trade him. Get more data.
Betsy,
Glad you have a neighbor that can help. Two of my brothers live in Merrick and said they had about 18 inches there.
Abda-
Very thoughtful post as usual.
I think we have to agree to disagree on boras. You seem more willing to give him a pass than i am. I am a fair person but i hold myself as well as others accountable.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion and i respect it.
MTU,
Good point about Wang. People want the Yankees to sign Sheets coming off injury hoping he returns to form. Same could be said about Wang.
Funny how snow totals really mean very different things depending on where you live.
Where I am, 18 inches is decent amount, but wouldn’t stop anything. 5 inches of snow is viewed as a dusting.
I think there is a correlation that you could put in about the same thing happening in baseball.
Going to log off for football and cookie making, but I wanted to thank MTU for that link. I hope that Wang makes it back to majors, and it would be great if it was with the Yankees!
MTU, any luck finding that horse?
Fran, we got 21 inches, lol
“Gardner can be expected to continue to adjust to the league and the league will continue to adjust to him. Where does the competitive balance finally lie? We really don’t know. Small sample size, moving target.”
I agree. Conversely however – and something that I don’t think is being factored in enough is that the league will invariably make adjustments back to Gardner if he does improve and we don’t know how Gardner will react because in those situations performance is no longer linear.
Major league baseball is viscous – it’s remarkable to watch how the league makes adjustments – especially to new players – and puts pressure on them to adjust back or fail.
Cole Hamels this year was a great case in point – the league saw him for what he was – a two pitch pitcher. In turn they shelled him because he didn’t have enough of a breaking pitch to make adjustments back.
Fran-
thanks. But my larger point was about giving the Yankees another chance to right a wrong, and repair for me the tiny bit of damage they caused for me in the WAY they handled wang’s rehab, and susequent premature re-assignment from his minor league stint.
No one knows for sure if that caused Wangs shoulder injury
but IMHO I believe it was a contibuting factor. I find it probable and believable. Others are entitled to their opinions.
On the Wang thing, the Yankees made an offer, but Wang and/or Nero didn’t like it and seemed to take it personally. Nero gave a sarcastic quote to somebody, about it being difficult to see how non-tendering a player is an invitation to remaining with the team. Whatever.
If the Yankees make Wang another offer after he and his surgically repaired shoulder finish their roadshow, all he has to do is take it. It’s as easy as tripping over 3d base.
An injustice needs to be corrected? Go ahead and be fond of whatever players you like. Heck, I like Wang. But, seriously, when MLBPA’s membership and their agents negotiate zealously on the merits for their side, pitting team against team for the highest dollar offer, and exploiting any weaknesses they can, why are the owners supposed to show anything beyond a willingness to pay fair value in exchange for value?
Because the Yankees are the Yankees and have so much money, every time Cash plays pushover for anyone, it makes it that much tougher to get a fair price on someone else. It’s not about Wang, it’s about business.
Blake-
Obviously we dont have the right kind of rope as of yet.
I am not sure what kind we need to do the job, or moreover if we should continue to try.
Your opinion ?
Betsy, My folks are in Plainview. Are you near there? Was wondering what the conditions are like.
m-
Glad you liked hearing it. i did too ! You’re welcome, and i like cookies.
MTU, I view any posts by an anonymous poster with a grain of salt. Lost may be connected, but a lot of the inferences can be taken either way. They are carefully worded so it can mean what you want it to mean.
Take it as entertainment, mix in your own hopes or dreams, but don’t let it sell you completely.
Bronx Born, very near Plainview – we’re in Woodbury. The plows came and did our street, but not the driveways. They’d better come, lol, because otherwise I will not be leaving the house for a few days.
MTU, eh let’s just wait and see if he comes back…
I agree in Wang, I’d like to see him back with the organization.
Murphy-
sorry but I dont completely agree.
It’s not only about buisness it’s about ethics.
And for me, at least, I try to have my ethics trump my buisness dealings, and not my buisness dealings trump my ethics.
Not trying to moralize here. it’s just my opinion. You are entitled to yours. Agree to disagree on that one.
CB
My posts have been eated. If you want to discuss this using some other forum, let me know.
CB,
“I agree. Conversely however – and something that I don’t think is being factored in enough is that the league will invariably make adjustments back to Gardner if he does improve and we don’t know how Gardner will react because in those situations performance is no longer linear.”
I think that it will be particularly interesting to see how this plays out in Gardner’s case because he has both strong assets and notable weaknesses. If he can make his skill set more uniformly strong there will be less room for the league to operate against him. Specifically, I’d like to see him adjust his swing to better capitalize on his strengths and reduce his strikeouts and learn to take better routes on fly balls to the outfield.
Rich,
A couple of my posts got stuck in the filter as well. Not sure what the filter has against discussions of statistical methods.
Not sure what other forum we could use to continue the discussion. If you have one in mind let me know.
Abda-
I never did anything but view what he said with a skeptical eye. And I will continue to do so. I am a born skeptic, and it has served me very well over the years.
I’ve been around the block a few times but thanks for the advice just the same.
And, just for the record I am not committed to a particular point of view when adjustments might be necessary.
I am having fun except when I let myself get too frustrated with the pace. Sometimes patience is good. Sometimes action is what’s needed.
But hey, what the heck, I dont own the team and it aint my money.
Thanks Betsy. Appreciate it.
Marlins offered Chapman 5yrs/3 mil in case he really,really,really wants to play in Miami.
lol, Bronx Jeers
Damn, I’m starting to hate NYYFans now. I wonder why people even bother posting on message boards. I expressed a concern about NJ’s batting average and instead of people taking the time to explain why he’s a better hitter than it appears (I’m talking about when he puts the bat on the ball, not when he walks), I get my head bitten off.
I have to ask what the purpose of message boards and blogs are when people can’t even have a civil discourse. The fact that I have to be worried now to even ask a ? or post a comment is a sad commentary
Bronx-
5/13. you wrote 5/3.
My. My. What a generous offer. He better go grab it before they pull it back. the Yankees could NEVER match that one.
I’m worried Bronx. very worried.
Bronx Born, you’re welcome!
Betsy, send Sam or Chad an email and indicate the harassment. Am sure they will do something about it.
Bronx Born, you mean about Miggs? I already did – they’re not inclined to do anything about it. I can’t say I’m happy with them as far as that’s concerned.
I wasn’t talking about this board, though. I post on NYYfans a lot…….and it just ticks me off that people can’t respond in a civil way. I have no patience for people who are rude, patronizing, condescending, etc……for no reason.
I don’t think I have posted on NYYFans for like almost two years.
My bad. 5yrs/13 mil is what I meant.
Still, even Kramer wouldn’t accept that offer.
Until Damon signs with another team, he’s a candidate for LF/DH. Just because Johnson was signed, doesn’t mean he’ll be on the team come start of the season. He was signed to a decent contract that most teams would trade for if he were on the market.
Melky and Gardner still have a role to play, Hoffmann, not so much.
I would not be too surprised to see Damon as full-time DH and part-time LF come opening day. I still think that the Yankees feel that LF is a place for short-term deals for now, at least for the next season or two.
Long-term, I think they would like to compose an under 30 outfield by next season, and have actually done that already this seasson. However, I feel that they are looking for a speedy, atheltic young outfield, and that as well as budget, is shaping their decision-making.
Betsy,
I read those posts over on the other board and I didn’t think they were that bad even the one you thought was patronizing when the poster further explained himself.
“I don’t think I have posted on NYYFans for like almost two years.”
Why?
“murphydog December 20th, 2009 at 10:57 am
“I’m glad I don’t have to hear Pete chirp on about:
- Bruce Springsteen
- making snide comments about Yankee players
- general “snarky” attitude.
Now we just get the news without alot of nonsensical commentary and stupid remarks.”
WARNING: Nasty, non-coddling, reply.
No offense, Mr. Kevin Page. And I do really mean that. This is not directed at you necessarily, but I am fed up with the whining.
I’m glad I’m old enough to have got my little league time in before it became the “self esteem” league. I love the work Sam, Chad and Josh are doing, but puhlease enough about big bad old Pete who didn’t stroke every adolescent ego that posts here. Some of the opinions you see around here are just plain dumb. Sorry but not every opinion is equal. Pete Abe had a point of view and it was clear. He was less homeroom teacher and guidance counselor and more Gym Teacher and Coach. Everybody here, yeah me too, wants to pretend they are GM material. Fine. But understand that in the real MLB world, a GM’s self-esteem is tested every ten or fifteen seconds and that’s the GMs who know what they are talking about and who grew up in baseball. Toughen up, cupcakes. Rant over.”
Murphydog
As far as I read Kevin Page’s comment, he was saying that he was glad to be able to read the blog without being exposed to Pete’s general attitude in regards to certain Yankee players and the Yankee organization. As far as I am concerned, he is 100 percent correct. There does not appear to be any kind of “whining”, more like an appreciation for the professionalism that Sam and Chad provide that Pete refused to.
I do not think any of us should be forced to “toughen up” because we actually enjoy not being talked down to or have our favorite team be insulted by a guy with an obvious bias against them. On top of that, I have no problem with people complimenting and encouraging Sam and Chad to continue running this blog with the professionalism it clearly lacked when Pete was here. Thank goodness the blog is finally a true testament to the organization, team and fans it represents.
“I would not be too surprised to see Damon as full-time DH and part-time LF come opening day.”
I would. I don’t think Damon could handle taking an approx 50% paycut and remain on the Yankees.
crawdaddy
Because so many of the people I used to post with have been banned.
“Damn, I’m starting to hate NYYFans now. I wonder why people even bother posting on message boards. I expressed a concern about NJ’s batting average and instead of people taking the time to explain why he’s a better hitter than it appears (I’m talking about when he puts the bat on the ball, not when he walks), I get my head bitten off.
I have to ask what the purpose of message boards and blogs are when people can’t even have a civil discourse. The fact that I have to be worried now to even ask a ? or post a comment is a sad commentary”
———————————————————-
not a bumper sticker person. But if ever put a bumper sticker for my car, it would read: mean people suck. To me that sums up life
Vinny-
Just like a vacuum cleaner.
Rich and CB,
you can chat at my blog if you want.
On the other hand, it’s hard to tell on message boards when people are being sarcastic or not. I’m glad I got that straightened out – I may have been overly defensive and overtired, lol.
CB-
I guess my perceptive powers aren’t what I thought they were.
They apparently have crashed and burned, and need work.
You have chided me about my expectations for the board so perhaps it’s just a matter of not wanting to reveal too much publicly without knowing who anyone really is. I respect that if that’s the case. You can’t be too careful these days.
If you would like to answer my question privately just let me know and I can post an e-mail for you to respond to.
I will not bother you about it any more.
Just curious. Thanks.
Craw, maybe the first poster who responded set me off…….the other poster clarified things and I admitted maybe I was overly sensitive. I explained that I had no real concern about NJ, I was just mostly curious. I guess being socked in all day, I have the time to look up his injury history. He must have been injured all of 2008 for him to hit .220 as he’s clearly not that kind of hitter.
Vinny, lol – that’s true. I don’t get why anyone would want to be mean……
“I don’t think I have posted on NYYFans for like almost two years”
———————————————-
me either. I cut that site out, 4 years ago. The owner of the site would make Stalin proud. A fanatical control freak
RAB’s site seems to have the best baseball discourse with fewest trolls.
“you can chat at my blog if you want.”
Thanks. Either way, more people should check out (the real) Phil’s blog.
According to a recent article, the door is not closed on a possible return of Chien-Ming Wang. Even if the report comes from boston.com
http://www.boston.com/sports/b.....?page=full
I don’t see the remaining FA Starting Pitching market shaking out anytime soon. Maybe by the week after Christmas.
Off topic:
New poll question:
If you could only add one FA SP which one would you choose, and WHY ?
A Sheets
B the “duke of hurl” (Ducsherer)
C Bedard
D Other- specify
E Do nothing- leave the rotation as it is.
phil: RAB is arguably the best yankee site on the web. But to me the message board is too “off-color”
Games at Fenway are usually delayed by rat feces flurries and urine accumulation, not snow.
MTU:
“And for me, at least, I try to have my ethics trump my buisness dealings, and not my buisness dealings trump my ethics.”
You innocently lay claim to the moral high ground and suggest that I am content to abide questionable ethical business dealings. Not so fast. My argument was only that you cannot let emotion cloud your business judgment. You tried to turn that into advocacy of unethical business practices and ultimately into a chance to make yourself look good. Cracks me up.
This is the kind of snide comment that those who whine about the tone of the blog continue to make and then say, “What did I do?”
“I would not be too surprised to see Damon as full-time DH and part-time LF come opening day.”
Didn’t they just sign a full time DH?
5.5 mil is a lot of $$$ for a pinch hitter.
Rich – thanks.
Nick-
That wasn’t very nice.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
And of course, frogs falling from the skies.
MTU,
If all the choices you listed were healthy and ready to go now, I’d choose Sheets, as he has the best natural stuff.
But otherwise, the decisions have to include when the candidate is ready for ML action. Contract demands also need to be taken into consideration. I would sign any of them on incentive-laded contracts. Sheets would probably garner the most, Duke next, Bedard last. If the first two were to price themselves out of my contract parameters, and Bedard were healthy he’d probably be the most affordable. I’d sign him and Wang if possible for additional depth.
Choice: A – highest upside.
Bronx Jeers
December 20th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
“I would not be too surprised to see Damon as full-time DH and part-time LF come opening day.”
Didn’t they just sign a full time DH?
5.5 mil is a lot of $$$ for a pinch hitter
———————————————————–
Funny, I think many said the same thing about Swisher when Tex was signed.
You’re not fooling me, Phil.
Murphy-
I wasn’t trying to insinuate that was you. I was trying to talk in general terms.
I believe you might be a lawyer and If you thought that I meant you. I apologize. I did not mean it that way at all.
I am not trying to be a moralizer and I think I even stated that in my post. It was strictly my personal opinions.
We can’t possibly be that far apart because we both seem to love dogs.
Sorry for any misunderstanding.
“Games at Fenway are usually delayed by rat feces flurries and urine accumulation, not snow”
————————————————-
you probably know, it’s been said the camera angle on the famous Carlton Fisk HR, was due to a rat wandering on the field and the telecrew trying to avoid it
Rich – I’m not trying to fool you or anyone. Been posting under this name for years. Just because I took a few months off due to trolls and getting married doesn’t mean I am an imposter. Go back and check the posts.
Mtu, sheets because his best is better than the others best. When they are all injury prone then I think you go with who is the best when they are 100%. Of course he will probably cost the most as well..
None of the above could turn into a trade…maybe a team needs salary relief and the Yanks pick up a pitcher along with a bad contract. A lot of teams owners want salary relief right now…but not all.
“– I’m not trying to fool you or anyone.”
So when you thanked me, you thought I was recommending your blog even though it was apparent to any reasonable person that I was referring to the the blog linked in Phil the Thrill’s user name?
Possible good news from Lost in Taiwan – Wang Is?
Excellent.
My position on this issue has been this: Wang should find the best deal he can and then the Yankees should match it and add the $600K (or whatever the number) that they took him to arbitration for a few years ago.
I have no problem with the non-tender; as presently constructed, Wang would not have been worth the freight. But I think bringing him back would still be the smart and right thing to do.
And murphydog, maybe Nero’s ‘sarcastic’ quote was just business too. Ultimately he’ll try to get the best deal for his client and then they’ll decide how to move forward. Should we let emotional responses to agents’ comments influence our thinking about players?
It was sarcasm, Rich.
For obvious reasons, the sarcasm was lost on me.
(Biting tongue, refraining from making easy joke.)
“My position on this issue has been this: Wang should find the best deal he can and then the Yankees should match it and add the $600K (or whatever the number) that they took him to arbitration for a few years ago.”
If I’m not mistaken (correct me if I’m wrong), Wang has to sign a mL deal in order to be able to spend a significant portion of the season in the mLs rehabbing.
Time to go to the football game.
“That’s why you don’t look at one season. I suggest that you follow your own advice.”
I was starting from your own example and working from there. You divided three seasons of data into 3 data points. As such the associated error needs to be directed to each of those data points. I took your “trend” data as the given baseline for the discussion.
On the point of working with more than one season – there’s a real question over how one should “not look at one season” with resepect to UZR.
I’m not too keen on sending Melky or Gardner to the Cubs since the Cubs don’t have anything the Yankees need.
Besides, Pineilla seems to want an outfielder who can hit 5th. That’s not Melky nor Gardner.
If any of the Yanks’ OF trade candidates profiles as a 5th hitter, it’s Nick Swisher.
“Our primary need is an outfielder who can hit fifth, and Granderson was our No. 1 choice,” Piniella said Wednesday.
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....z0aG0x4OM2
So as far as trading Melky or Gardner to the Cubs goes, I think it’s a long shot given their need for a middle order hitter and our needs as well.
Whatever the contractual mechanics, just sign the man, pay the man, heal him up, see what he’s got left.
While I can understand there being some underlying issues with Nero’s comments about the Wang non-tendering, I don’t really see all that much in it to get worked up over. There was frustration on his part, Wang seems like a genuine nice person, and sometimes negative things happen to nice people.
His job is to work for his client, not the Yankees. From his viewpoint it was a tough knock, from the Yankees standpoint, it was business and based on what Wang has been through. Both sides have their points.
With time helping distance things from the emotion, I think it becomes clearer.
Nick in SF…..The Wang-Man will return to the Pinstripes
Sam, Chad,
There is something wrong with the filter. It keeps blocking harmless posts I’m trying to make in response to rich about UZR.
Pat M, I agree, and we will both be $25 richer when it goes down… and my vig will be one frosty brew!
Brett,
I agree, I can only think of a few guys on the cubs entire roster that I would want and none of them really match up well with melky/gardner.
Furthermore, on the issue of signing Holliday and subsequently trade Melky, Gardner or Swisher.
If they sign Holliday and keep Swisher, every single position player will be on a multiyear contract.
If the Yankees are serious about the 2011 free agent class and have targeted multiple players from that group, then they’ll need as much financial flexibility as possible.
I still think Melky is more likely to be dealt if they sign Holliday, but I don’t feel as sure about it today as I was yesterday.
CB, maybe someone installed an anti-sabermetrics filter. Just joking..
blake
December 20th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
Brett,
I agree, I can only think of a few guys on the cubs entire roster that I would want and none of them really match up well with melky/gardner.
—
The 2 guys I like (Marmol and Castro) were off limits to the Tigers during the Granderson trade talks between the Cubs and Tigers. If those guys weren’t moving for Granderson, they’re not moving for Melky or Gardner.
Andy pitched that snow game, Sam, we were there. Never saw anything like that.
BTW I’m thinking it will be closer to 50 games before 1st workout, I plan my vacations around it.
blake December 20th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
CB, maybe someone installed an anti-sabermetrics filter. Just joking..
============================================================
who you calling an anti-semite?
Actually, Blake, that’s pretty funny…. anit-sabremetrics filter
About next years free agent class:
Isn’t there a chance that the only impact player that actually becomes a free agent is cliff lee. I mean all of the other ones are risks to sign extensions sometime during the next year. If they don’t sign Holliday this year then would they try to re-sign Jeter and Rivera, go after a LFer, and sign a starting pitcher like Lee all in one offseason? I think it could be a great free agent class but it also could end up being just as thin or thinner than this years. So my question is why and who would they be waiting for? CB, care to comment.
yankees are not getting Holliday. How could we have fallen for the Lost-Holliday-Inn info?
“I was starting from your own example and working from there. You divided three seasons of data into 3 data points.
…On the point of working with more than one season – there’s a real question over how one should “not look at one season” with resepect to UZR.”
(hope this works)
My point really flowed from a different proposition. That is, given the makeup of the current roster, how should the personal be optimally deployed.
I first cited Gardner’s SSS WAR, not for purposes of projection, but because when faced with the choice of playing Melky or Gardner, we are reduced to choosing between two flawed players, so in order in order to get a better sense of which player might provide more value going forward, we could benefit by testing whether or not Gardner’s SSS WAR MAY offer an indication that it might perhaps offer a small window on his true talent. Disclaimer: It MAY NOT. In fact, it likely doesn’t, but the other choice is Melky, who has probably regressed as a hitter during his ML career.
With the starting point being that we (I) want to test whether or not Gardner COULD possibly be a valuable player, our next inquiry is what defensive position he should play.
Tango Tiger adds .5 to his WAR calculation for a CF, and subtracts .5 for a LF. Granderson possesses the offensive ability to provide significant value even as a LF. Gardner does not.
Now, as I have repeatedly noted (in this and other discussions) UZR has flaws. But we MAY be seeing that Granderson’s CF defense is not as as good as it was a few years ago. OTOH, again with even more severe limitations, we may have some indication that Gardner MAY have an opportunity to be an elite defensive CF.
As such, I think an OF alignment with Granderson in LF and Gardner in CF has the POTENTIAL to be the most optimal deployment of the players on their current roster.
That is and was my point.
I don’t care for the Pete bashing here.
Pete did a fine job reporting what was going on in Yankeeland, and did it with a real voice. I log on to this site to get breaking Yankee news, but I’m also aware that it is a blog. Being a blog, I don’t expect it to read like an AP or Reuters story, and I expect there to be some opinion and a little personality thrown in.
Pete deserved his promotion, and I think we all owe him some thanks for doing a job that, while a dream job to some of us (like me), is still a rough job that is much more than just being buddies with professional athletes and getting free tickets to Yankee games.
That being said, Sam, Chad, and Josh are doing a great job keeping up what Pete started, and have made this blog their own seamlessly.
erek December 20th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
I don’t care for the Pete bashing here.
Pete did a fine job reporting what was going on in Yankeeland, and did it with a real voice. I log on to this site to get breaking Yankee news, but I’m also aware that it is a blog. Being a blog, I don’t expect it to read like an AP or Reuters story, and I expect there to be some opinion and a little personality thrown in.
Pete deserved his promotion, and I think we all owe him some thanks for doing a job that, while a dream job to some of us (like me), is still a rough job that is much more than just being buddies with professional athletes and getting free tickets to Yankee games.
That being said, Sam, Chad, and Josh are doing a great job keeping up what Pete started, and have made this blog their own seamlessly.
=========================================================
Pete?
The Yankees have a better sense of other teams budgets than any of us. They employ people to crunch the numbers and set their targets on worthy assets likely deemed expendable by any given club.
I wonder what kind of numbers the Yankees have on all those teams of big name free agents in 2011. Crawford, Lee, Werth, Mauer.
What’s to stop them from signing Holliday now and trading Swisher to make room for Werth?
Did the Halladay extension at 20 mil per reduce the Phillies ability to outbid the Yankees for Werth?
I don’t know.
But they have the numbers and I’m still fascinated by the move that would come after signing Holliday.
Melky or Swisher.
It will tell us alot about how the Yankees view their prospects for 2011.
Like I said, if they ink Holliday and keep Swisher, every position player will be tied up on a multiyear contract.
Even if you’re the Yankees, is that ever a wise idea?
Derek….I do miss Pete trying to go toe to toe with GB7, and getting knock into the ropes…..
Rich,
Thanks for clarifying your points. I guess my overall response is that it is a big deal to move a player to a new position – it is especially a big deal to move a CF to a corner OF spot.
There’s a saying that I think is important to remember – players aren’t strat cards.
Moving a guy from CF to LF who is 29 is a pretty damning thing to do.
Now you could say well he should just get over it for the good of the team, etc.
However, part of why that might be so difficult for Granderson to take is valid – Brett Gardner simply hasn’t accomplished enough in his career, nor is he so talented that he’s a guy an all star CF should step out of the way of.
And in particular, there is a real risk that if Gardner flops as a starter (again) then you’d have to move Granderson back to CF after displacing him.
So in a strictly analytic sense I can see the hypothesis that your alignment could be an “optimal use of talent.” I don’t think the available qualitative and quantitative data would warrant such an upheavel however.
Gardner will not be here on opening day. Teams are interested in him and a reliever could be had.
The solution here is to just hire a left fielder. A good one. A good one who is a perfect fit. A good one who is a perfect fit and wants to be a Yankee.
This fascination with speed will be a thing of the past, although Jeter and Grandy at the top still provide it.
mick,
why do we need a reliever? We’re loaded in relievers and relief prospects for the next several years.
# Phil the Thrill December 20th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
The solution here is to just hire a left fielder. A good one. A good one who is a perfect fit. A good one who is a perfect fit and wants to be a Yankee.
==============================================
Any ideas?
Happy Holliday!
“I don’t care for the Pete bashing here.
Pete did a fine job reporting what was going on in Yankeeland, and did it with a real voice. I log on to this site to get breaking Yankee news, but I’m also aware that it is a blog. Being a blog, I don’t expect it to read like an AP or Reuters story, and I expect there to be some opinion and a little personality thrown in.
Pete deserved his promotion, and I think we all owe him some thanks for doing a job that, while a dream job to some of us (like me), is still a rough job that is much more than just being buddies with professional athletes and getting free tickets to Yankee games.
That being said, Sam, Chad, and Josh are doing a great job keeping up what Pete started, and have made this blog their own seamlessly”
—————————————————-
agree.
ok we don’t need a reliever, what can I say?
Phil the Thrill,
Yes, there is a very direct and immediate solution.
This cannot be lost on the FO.
Derek :
If you still desire the thin skinned reporting of Pete, just go to Boston.com
“John Tomase of the Boston Herald looks at what’s next for Mike Lowell, now that the trade with Texas has been called off. Tomase notes the extreme respect that the Red Sox have for Lowell’s heart and desire last season, playing through injuries to start 105 games and post a respectable .811 OPS.” MLBTR
Well, after the Red Sox tried to dump him last year, came extraordinarily close to dumping him this year, sold him out and questioned his attitude, they now respect his heart and desire. Isn’t that nice and convenient!
Can I raise a question concerning WAR?
Replacement level wins is 81, correct (.500 is replacement)? So to win 100 games, a team needs players with a total WAR of about 20.
(1) Aren’t there a number of teams like this?
(2) And if so, why don’t more teams win 100 games if their WAR is so great? Is there really a correlation with WAR and actual wins?
I feel like a nap, too much digging out and lack of stim in here.
mick,
you don’t have to say a thing. Happy Holliday!
Nick in SF
December 20th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
Whatever the contractual mechanics, just sign the man, pay the man, heal him up, see what he’s got left.
************************
Completely agree.
If the Yankees sign Matt Holliday and deal Swisher, essentially they’ll still be a much improved offensive team even with Melky in RF. They’ll also be better prepared to bid on any given 2011 free agent.
Melky would replace himself from last year. No change.
Holliday replaces Matsui. upgrade.
Granderson replaces Damon. upgrade.
N. Johnson replaces Swisher. no change
If you factor in defense.
Holliday > Damon in LF
Granderson > Melky in CF
Melky > Swisher in RF
Without Swisher, who backs up 1b?
Nick Johnson.
Back to MTU’s question from earlier:
[D] Sign CMW to a rehab deal. With the 40-man self-imposed soft cap, we don’t have that much to spare. Sign Holliday, solve left field. Give the youngsters a chance to show their stuff [with the benefit of the new Murderer's Row backing them up!]. If they falter, and Messrs. Gaudin et al do not pick up the slack, makes for an interesting Trade Deadline come summer.
The idea is to get Melky and his inconsistent bat out of the lineup, not Swisher and his valuably bat.
“Replacement level wins is 81, correct (.500 is replacement)? So to win 100 games, a team needs players with a total WAR of about 20.”
Pittsburgh,
A replacement level team is estimated to win around 50 games (not 81).
To win 100 games a team needs to be cumulatively around 50 WAR.
Adding Tex last year upped the yankees to a that 50 WAR level (unadjusted for the AL EAST).
This year adding Holliday would do the same. The current teams is around +45-46 WAR or so, I believe.
7 years ago today, we came to our initial agreement with Hit-Deki Matsui.
5 years ago today, we signed Carl Pavanp.
Swisher or Melky in RF/
Considering Melky was our CF last year, I’d say he has a shot at RF. No comparison with him and Swish out there.
With Swish’s contract about 5m more than Melky and rising, I’d say there’s a good chance he could be moved if we get Matt.
Might have to pick some of it up, but I don’t think he finishes his deal here.
If I were trading players, I would trade melky and not swisher. Swisher is a much more valuable bat and RF in Yankee stadium is one of the easier RF’s in baseball to play defensively.
Without Swisher, who backs up 1b?
Nick Johnson.
=====================================
Aha!
Could this be another stealth move by the Cash man.
CB
Where did they get 50 as the WAR number?
I thought .500 was the definition of mediocrity.
Interesting. So replacement is far below mediocrity, essentially the worst record ever (50-112)?
mick-
Wouldn’t the sane argument apply if Melky were to be in right as it would if he played left ?
just seeking clarification on that.
Thanks.
meant to say “same” not “sane”.
Phil the Thrill,
Again, the idea is to improve in the short term while maintaining enough flexibility in the long-term to remain competitive.
With Holliday and Swisher. You improve short term but lose flexibility. Every position player would be locked up on multiyear deals.
With Holliday and Melky. You improve short term and gain flexibility.
Is it wise, even if you’re the Yankees, to have every position player locked up on multiyear deals when you can improve your end line without such a commitment?
Also, what are teams offering for Swisher and Melky?
What if there’s something good out there for Swisher because he’s a sell-high (coming off a productive year) whereas the offers for Melky play down his upside?
What if the offer for Swisher is something Cashman REALLY REALLY needs?
Pittsburgh,
replacement level is below “mediocre.”
We need more WAR!
“Interesting. So replacement is far below mediocrity, essentially the worst record ever (50-112)?”
50 is a widely accepted number for wins by a replacement level team. Remember – a replacement level team isn’t “mediocre.” It is a team essentially of marginal AAAA type talents. So its far worse than mediocre
(Note – baseball prospectus sets it lower. But I think BP sets it far too low for what it is to represent. At The Book 50 is used for replacement and SG at RLYB uses 52 – I think that is a much more reasonable level).
So when I post about Melky potentially performing as a “replacement level” LF – what that means is that he would be performing at at the level of a LF on a 50 win replacement team.
Now the other players could “make up” for Melky but in December that really isn’t an optimal goal.
CB
“Moving a guy from CF to LF who is 29 is a pretty damning thing to do.”
You don’t think Bobby Murcer handled the move to RF in the right way?
The practical considerations are significant, and it’s probably premature to seriously consider moving Granderson (unless a proven commodity falls into their laps), but I view discussion boards as a place to present theories, and then have them tested by other posters.
Bret,
if we get Holliday, there’s nothing we really need. The pattern it seems they are establishing here is that they are done overpaying for anyone who’s not “special.” They’re not gonna give big dough to guys on the wrong side of 30, unless it’s a difference making superstar. They just said goodbye to Johnny and and Matsui cause they were done tying up payroll in decline.
What this all means for you, is that sure there is a budget, but if next year they decide Cliff Lee or someone is special, they’ll grab him. The roster around the special guys is gonna keep getting younger and cheaper.
With the Lowell fiasco hanging in the air, Boston is expected to set their sights on 3rd baseman Feliz Navida.
All
Got it. Replacement level means AAAA, not an average ML player.
For example:
Kei Igawa = replacement?
Do we know yet if Johnson passed his physical? Lowell didn’t pass his. Maybe lightning strikes twice.
Rich,
It’s funny, I just realize the other day that I have been aware of and following the Winter Meetings and the hot stove, since the day they traded Bobby Murcer. My dad and I were at Sal Anthony’s when he broke the news to me that the the Yanks had traded Bobby for Bobby Bonds at the Winter Meetings. I remember saying, “THEY DID WHAT?” Then asking if there was any way we could get him back.
Laura,
he’s taking his physical tomorrow, weather permitting.
Since someone mentioned Kei Igawa:
It surprises me that with the big investment they made in him.
He is still pitching as a starter mounting up meaningless #’s at AAA. If we don’t intend to ever use him as a starter in MLB we should have started the process to use him as a spot LH reliever. Seems a big waste of money to throw AAA innings.
He’s been our winningest pitcher at AAA 2 yrs running.
If you can take a “replacememt level player” and replace them with an allstar level player at a reduced price then shouldn’t you do it.
Joba and Hughes will both be above average starters this year, if given the opportunity. I’ve said time and time again, I don’t want another starter on this team unless it’s for insurance – like a Chad Gaudin type of guy to be the 6th starter. It’s time Joba and Phil step up and pitch well in the rotation
patrick-
i think now is the time for both hughes and joba to step up. the reason that i keep going back to 2008 is that it was the outgrowth of who cashman is. he knows he rushed them a bit, but that will always be a tendency of his.
he’s never that i know been accused of slowing down someone who’s a prospect.
and i think he’s rushing cervelli a bit. as you say , not a big deal because it’s the back up catcher, but posada is getting up there. i’d rather see a more proven catcher than cervelli because he might be catching 50 plus games.
i’m with you on hughes and joba though. they are not rookies anymore. time to take the training wheels off.
I want Lilly from the cubs!
Who did we get in exchange for Ted Lilly? Way back when
Ahhh Lilly part of trade for Jeff Weaver
Their are some pretty immature people on this blog. I’d like to echo Murphydog’s comments about Pete. He started this blog. Be grateful It’s a great place both to find information and to discuss baseball.I liked Pete’s approach. He was straight forward and honest. Yes he was opinionated. That’s what writer is supposed to do. He gave us something to like or dislike.
Everyone in the world is not a life long Yankee fan. A reporter reports on the news and a blogger gives opinions. Pete did both well enough that a larger paper noticed him and offered him a job. He took it and that should be the end of it. Some the real jerks from here went over to his new board and insulted him. Really impressive, insulting people over the internet with the cloak of anonimity.
I like what Sam, Josh and Chad have done here. I find analysis here that I don’t find other places. I rarely read the other NYC newspapers for Yankee coverage because it’s right here. I don’t live anywhere NYC and yet I feel as I’m right on the doorstep of Yankee Stadium. Let’s not tear down people because they went to another newspaper and are covering another team. Appreciate both what we have and what we had.
A nice article written by Evans Clinchy. I am not sure what type of name that is, or if that is even a real name. It might actually be an alias of Peter Gammons.
http://www.nesn.com/2009/12/th.....lion-.html
“Here’s what could happen, if and when Max Ramirez’s contract comes into the Red Sox’ possession. Epstein can package Ramirez, Buchholz and a third youngster of San Diego’s choosing into a nice little trade package for Hoyer. In return, the Red Sox get one of the most promising young hitters in the game.
That would be Adrian Gonzalez.
Both sides win. The Red Sox, who are losing their grip on free agent Jason Bay and now stand to lose Lowell as well, would pick up a power bat that would cure all that ails the middle of their order. The Padres, who are trying to stay competitive on a tighter budget, would be able to turn one young, cost-controlled talent into three of them. And two of the three pieces (or maybe — in Bowden’s case, at least — all three) would be ready to contribute at the big league level in 2010.”
Because that sounds like a fair package for “one of the most promising young hitters in the game”
If Jed Hoyer were so up on Max Ramirez, why would he not go out and get Max himself?
If the Rangers were willing to deal Max for an aging, injury prone Mike Lowell, then IMO, the Padres could have gotten Max while giving up better value.
GeorgeinJax…he was part of the Jeff Weaver deal I believe.
Comet,
I’ve had nothing to say about Pete that I didn’t say to him. I wished him well when he left. But, it’s true that he posted as “interested reader” on another site taking advantage of the anonymity the internet can provide. So if some folks did it back to him, it’s probably his tough luck.
Ted Lilly trade: it was 3-way
we gave up: Lilly, Arnold, an OF prospect from FSU (who i can’t name right now). And we received Jeff Weaver
Jets could win this game if the field goal unit could get one done.
Jon Ford Griffin was the FSU prospect.
Jeers, They’re killing me, as I had to give 4…I also played the unders at 38
phil: thank you. That was him.
if someone would have told me neither Jason Arnold or Jon Ford Griffin would not pan out, i would’ve definitely thought we would win in that trade. Not the case, tho
I’d like to also mention that same trade also sent Bonderman and Pena from Oakland to Detroit, if I recall correctly.
From previous thread:
dan l
December 20th, 2009 at 10:12 am
Can we finally trade Melky? He is getting expensive and is useless. His second half numbers match his pathetic career numbers. His mental game stinks. Anyone who runs into the SS when he doesn’t have to run is just STUPID. He air mails throws to the wrong bases all the time. Please Cashman trade Melky ASAP!
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Dan:
I’d love to trade Melky.
Who wants him ? …… nobody.
What could we reasonably expect in return ? … I’d love to hear some ideas !!!
The only people that think he has any value are the few ‘Melky lovers’ here….
One said he’d rather “have a Melky than a Cano” …..you’ve got to be kidding us !!!…..Then goes on to rationalize Melky’s overall pathetic performances with “he’s good luck” – that’s a great baseball reason !!!
He did well against the Angels – but did he even hit .170 against the Twins or in the World Series ????…. NO.
But he’s “good luck” ??? WOW – what other ‘good luck’ players are there ?
He’s so good in the field ???
Think “FOZZY BEAR” with a Yankeee hat…..with flat out stupid sense of defense….countless triples sailing over his head…but with very strong throws from the outfield – unfortunately, they are never accurate anymore – so his strong throws are basically useless.
Again – how the heck would we ever trade this guy ???
Maybe someone’s looking for “a guy who brings us luck (?) and plays the outfield like FOZZY BEAR….”
test–
The Jets defense always seems to collapse at exactly the wrong moments.
During the period between Championships, the tried trading young for young to get pitchers (Weaver, Vazquez), international signings (Contreras, Igawa), trading youth for salary dumps (Johnson, Brown) and none of it worked.
The Jets defense always seems to collapse at exactly the wrong moments.
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Yes, like the Jacksonville game too.
I was very wrong about that trade. I thought Weaver was going to be great. How wrong I was.
jim m:
yes. Pena was a late bloomer. But other teams who passed on him later in his career (yankees) definitely missed out.
Weaver and Vazquez looked they were good pickups, heck, Randy Johnson was coming off a great season, Brown was even coming off a good season, but none of it worked.
Jeez the under @ 38 seemed very safe given the Jets D and Sanchez never throwing in the brutal cold before.
So if the Jets hold em thats a push and a win?
I jinxed em didnt I?
My bad.
We’re fans of a very special place in sports.
Not all guys can handle playing in the NYC media fishbowl.
Is Holliday one of those guys???
“I was very wrong about that trade. I thought Weaver was going to be great. How wrong I was”
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David: we all were. Lilly was a good pitcher, but Jeff Weaver was pitching shutouts seemingly every other game, before that trade
CB’s evaluation on Melky is brutal…..I guess he’s what he is, a 4th outfielder….I did some improvements in his game this past season, but after reading what CB posted maybe he doesn’t get the chance to see if this is an upward trend for the 25 year old, or just his ceiling……
George in Jax,
It should be pretty easy for any good hitter to join this lineup at this point. No one will feel like they have to do more because of the talent around them.
It’s not a real solution. We are already tied down with unwieldy, long-term contracts; I don’t think another one is a good idea. Now we have to give Jeter an Mo long-term contracts – and we’d better hope that they perform as they have otherwise we’re going to be in trouble. We’ll be in the same position the Sox are in now. We already have little flexibility – signing Holliday would just make it worse. I don’t want Crawford as he’s not worth a big contract and when his legs go, that’s it. Cash really needs to trade some of our minor league arms for an OF prospect or two…….that, or make a trade.
Sorry, Jets fans, but the chances of beating a team with Thomas DeCoud and Tony Gonzalez were never good.
randy,
You could be right, Cervelli might not be ready. Given what he’s done in the minors I think his hitting last year was mostly a fluke. However, he does project to have a decent average as he becomes more experienced, just very little power.
I’m not saying Cisco will be all that good at catcher but I don’t think he’ll be as bad as Molina. I think we can both agree that on the defensive end, Cervelli appears to be ready. Maybe, given your experience, you could give us a better insight in that area?
Off-topic real quick. Why do we want to trade Nick Swisher if Matt Holliday is signed? Isn’t the whole point of signing Matt Holliday to get Cabrera out of the starting lineup?
If the Yanks have the money they should sign Holliday then trade one of the 4th outfielders we have – Gardner or Cabrera.
Phil, how are we loaded? Mo, Marte (and he’s still something of an unknown; I like him if he’s healthy, but let’s see him stay that way for a whole year), Robertson……then what? Melancon? He’s got a lot to prove. Dunn? Same thing….and he could be another Jose Veras. Aceves? I’m with Rich – I’m down on him after his poor 2nd half. I like Gaudin……That’s not loaded.
Fran (the original) and OPPC member
December 20th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
The Jets defense always seems to collapse at exactly the wrong moments.
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Yes, like the Jacksonville game too.
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Yes, but psychologically, they always know it’s on them.
As soon as Revis couldn’t hold that ball, I knew that was it.
On the TD, there were four guys within two yards of him. Should have had someone over him.
But it’s true, the D hasn’t made a play to win a game since we were 3-0.
Weren’t we supposed to be the “cold weather” team? Holder’s supposed to get the snap down. We moved the ball – not like we were punting all day. 3 FG attempts for nought and that stupid Thomas Jones penalty.
ARRRRRRRRGHHHHHHH!
Glad I couldn’t get out of the driveway.
Phil,
Even A-Rod struggled when he first came here.
How will he react when the fans are booing him if he starts out with a bad slump. I doubt he’d be bad for us, but there is that potential of putting a Gary Matthews type albatross around our neck for 5 yrs.
Saying Joba and Phil will be above average starters this year is seeing the glass completely full with no basis in fact. We’re supposed to believe, based on 3 starts last year, that Joba is going to be good or even very good? I have absolutely no clue what he’s going to give us. AS to Phil, he’s not going to be any better than a #5. I don’t know why people are putting these unrealistic expectations on him – it’s not fair to Phil. He has to get used to pitching through lineups more than once, he has to get consistency with his curve, he has to try and learne a workable change. He’s going to do this AND be an above average starter? Wow
Paul,
I didn’t say I still desired Pete’s incarnation of this blog, but thanks for assuming so. I simply think it’s a joke that people here still feel the need to knock the guy three months after he’s gone. He did a solid job and if he didn’t start up this particular blog, how would we have met?
It is just a little tasteless that a bunch of know-it-all armchair GM’s feel the need to knock a guy who worked hard and paid his dues. If you don’t like him, it really doesn’t matter because you weren’t signing the guy’s checks. Leave it alone.
The trading Swisher talk is silly as the Yankees aren’t contemplating that at all. They kind of need a RF to compete this season.
“I simply think it’s a joke that people here still feel the need to knock the guy three months after he’s gone. He did a solid job and if he didn’t start up this particular blog, how would we have met?
It is just a little tasteless that a bunch of know-it-all armchair GM’s feel the need to knock a guy who worked hard and paid his dues. If you don’t like him, it really doesn’t matter because you weren’t signing the guy’s checks. Leave it alone”
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classless. For the people who feel the need to knock Pete on this site, it tells something about their character
“The trading Swisher talk is silly as the Yankees aren’t contemplating that at all. They kind of need a RF to compete this season.”
Exactly. They’re not just going to move Melky there in the chance that we get Holliday. The whole point of even obtaining a LF is so that Melky doesn’t start.
The only reason to trade Swisher is if they sign Holliday and they want more payroll flexibility in 2010 (and/or help in keeping their payroll at or near $200m this season), and they think that moving him now is selling high.
Ted Lilly coming off minor cleanup shoulder surgery and won’t be ready till early May.
If you’re interested in a proven, possible low-cost reliever, Kiko Calero might be a good choice.
Braves would probably love Swisher for Derek Lowe, but not me!!!!
Bod, The Jets sold their soul in January 1969 and it’s been heartbreak hotel ever since…..In fact they should have repeated the following year…I was Shea for the KC Chief game ( Raiders in 68 as well ) & they got jobbed by the officials that game….Ever since It’s been one thing after another…From Blair Thomas to Browning Neagle to trading away John Riggins…..They’ve had teams that were good enough to play in the Super Bowl, only to malfunction at the wrong time…….
I don’t want Lowe for free.
I don’t dislike the Jets, but I do dislike the mediots who are telling me that Sanchez will be better than Eli.
Again referencing the previous blog post about a Cubs interest in one of our outfielders.
On MLB radio (Sirius/XM), Lee Hamilton hosting, says he’s heard of a possible even up deal of Bret Gardner for Jeff Samardzija. This is a new one for me. Any comments?
George,
ARod’s a bit of a special case. He still had a pretty good first year and won and MVP in his second year. Tex and Giambi each took 4-6 weeks to get going. But none of the really good ones have been terrible their first year. They all eventually hit.
Betsy,
The pitching in our system in well ahead of the hitting at this point, in terms of having guys ready to help. I you don’t pay attention to the minors you might not know what I’m talking about. You might not realize that Melancon is probably going to be a little better than Robertson, for example. Anyway, we have a bunch of relief prospects and starters who can start their big league careers in the pen, and we really don’t need to spend money on middle relievers for the foreseeable future.
Rich in NJ…..Mark Sanchez should have stayed in USC for his Senior year…..He’s going be good, but the learning curve is that much harder for him….Eli had his issues at first, as the media almost ran him out of town, but thee Giants stuck with him…..Bottom line is I’m right where I was ( wagering wise ) when the season started….College & NFL
“If you can take a “replacememt level player” and replace them with an allstar level player at a reduced price then shouldn’t you do it.”
In a vacuum, absolutely…
“So when I post about Melky potentially performing as a “replacement level” LF – what that means is that he would be performing at at the level of a LF on a 50 win replacement team.”
I’d like to better understand why is defensive position rather than his batting position is relevant in this evaluation?
Any analysis that can be significantly altered by a defensive shellgame strikes me as inherently suspect.
As others has pointed out, simply shifting Granderson to left and Cabrera to CF would seem to significantly alter a conclusion based on combined positional replacement level.
And this isn’t about the tired argument of whether Holliday will be more productive that Cabrera. As I’m sure CB understands, this about the analytical methodology.
Even a child understands that shifting two players 90 feet in the respective direction in the defensive half of the inning would not alter their combined offensive output one bit, yet positional replacement level analysis seems to suggest that’s exactly what would occur, because as was previously explained to me, carrying just one below RL anywhere in your line-up has a profound negative effect. So shifting them defensively would counteract that effect?
Someone please enlighten me as to error in my conclusion?