The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Yankees might match any offer to Wang

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 20, 2009 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

An interesting Yankees note from Nick Cafardo, who talked to Chien-Ming Wang’s agent.

“Fifteen teams have inquired about the rehabbing righty, according to agent Alan Nero, and while Nero wouldn’t confirm which teams are involved (except the Yankees, who would like to match any final offer) you can bet the Red Sox are one of them.”

According to Cafardo, Wang has been long-tossing for almost three weeks and will soon have another evaluation to better set his expected return to the mound. Because of Wang’s past success, you can bet a lot of teams will be interested in the results of that check-up with Dr. James Andrews. The Yankees, it appears, are one of them and have not given up completely on bringing Wang back.

• Cafardo also notes that the asking price for Mark DeRosa seems to be going down. When DeRosa was Melky Cabrera’s age, he had a total of 11 major league at-bats and one major league hit. DeRosa didn’t become an everyday player in the big leagues until he was 31, and at that point, his career batting average, on-base percentage and slugging percentage were lower than Cabrera’s are today. I’m not writing that to suggest Cabrera is better than DeRosa, only to point out how far DeRosa’s stock has climbed in four years, from nice player to have on the bench to legitmately buzz-worthy free agent.

• Occasionally someone asks about Erik Bedard as a possible risk-reward target for the Yankees rotation. Part of the problem is, no one knows for sure when he’ll be ready to pitch again.

• Some numbers you might like. Here’s a comparison of Granderson/Johnson vs. Damon/Matsui.

Comments

comments

 

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402 Responses to “Yankees might match any offer to Wang”

  1. Jack December 20th, 2009 at 4:29 pm

    Should’ve kept Matsui!

  2. matt December 20th, 2009 at 4:31 pm

    Wang makes sense. He won 19 games two yrs in a row. He will be cheaper then sheets and the other injured pitchers. One has to think he will bounce back once healthy.

  3. Phil the Thrill December 20th, 2009 at 4:32 pm

    DeRosa’s not good. Why are you bringing him up?

  4. Rich in NJ December 20th, 2009 at 4:35 pm

    People often talk about “Parcells’s guys.”

    I think Cash views Yankee prospects as “his guys,” so it doesn’t surprise me that, all thing being equal, he’d like an opportunity to match on Wang.

  5. Thurman December 20th, 2009 at 4:40 pm

    I’m a little concerned about Wang. Until he learned that 2-seamer, he wasn’t much of a pitcher. And when the 2-seamer was working, he was a 19-game winner. But when it doesn’t work, he has no other pitch to fall back on, and it seems he needs his own personal coach to keep his mechanics in line. If they can bring him back on a minor-league deal with incentives, then it’s OK. But otherwise, let him move on with grace.

  6. Erin December 20th, 2009 at 4:42 pm

    Yankees might match any offer to Wang
    ************************

    :D

    I’m trying not to get my hopes up, but I would love for them to bring Wang back.

  7. Rich in NJ December 20th, 2009 at 4:42 pm

    Speaking of Wang, is Neil Allen still under contract to the Rays?

  8. Betsy - high on pie December 20th, 2009 at 4:46 pm

    Phil, I know improving the pen is not at the top of the list as far as priorities go and you raise good points about possibly using SP arms from the minors, but:

    1) Who are we talking about besides McAllister? I do read the minors section on NYYFans and I do check out Pinstripes Plus from time to time. From what I’ve read, this kid has good command, but his stuff isn’t that good. Could he be effective out of the pen? I’m not sure who else is ready for the majors – the Yankees had a ton of injuries to their young arms and most of them are recovering this year from TJ surgery.

    2) Re: Melancon: I’m not saying he’s not talented, but I didn’t like what I saw last year. He certainly deserves another chance, but I don’t think we can count on him to be good.

  9. Nick in SF December 20th, 2009 at 4:46 pm

    The underbelly is cautiously optimistic.

  10. Jerkface December 20th, 2009 at 4:47 pm

    I don’t think McCallister is a bullpen candidate, but guys like Wilkins De La Rosa could join the pen. We have a lot of BP guys in the minors though, Duff, Sanchez

  11. Clare December 20th, 2009 at 4:48 pm

    murphydog:

    In the last thread you said: “This is the kind of snide comment that those who whine about the tone of the blog continue to make and then say, ‘What did I do?’”

    And in the thread prior to that you attacked another poster’s comment and ended with “Toughen up cupcakes.”

    Pot, meet Kettle.

  12. Jerkface December 20th, 2009 at 4:50 pm

    Melancon was really good last year in AAA and over his minor league career, the yankees are very high on him. Robertson did not light up the majors his first season. Melancon did also not get consistent work. And still he put up a 3.8 ERA in limited sample. If he gets comfortable with the majors he will be good.

  13. lohud of the rings December 20th, 2009 at 4:50 pm

    awesome link.

    when looked at objectively, the moves do make sense. it’s still hard, though, to say goodbye to two such class acts.

  14. m December 20th, 2009 at 4:51 pm

    Groucho,

    Lol. I was thinking yesterday about who we could ask the Cubs for and the first name I thought of was Jeff Smjaiojddkos. But then I thought, “We don’t need a wide receiver” :(

    Nick,

    Can you explain the underbelly thing? From what I gathered Kay made a comment about the LoHud blog?

    And can anyone point me to CB’s analysis on melky?

  15. E-gawa December 20th, 2009 at 4:51 pm

    Matsui’s #’s against the NL are off of the charts.. I’m not just talking about the past WS either.. They’ve always been like that. He’s always owned interleague. His loss alone hurts the line up.. couple that with Damon and his October smarts. I don’t see much of a point to compare.

    It is what it is and I’m trying my hardest to accept it but if we’re talking big games/post season, I’d take Matsui/Damon over Granderson/Johnson any day.

  16. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 20th, 2009 at 4:52 pm

    I decided to finally delete my old Myspace account, but before I do I wanted to rescue the blog writings I used to do on there. In March 2006, I commented on a NY Magazine Johnny Damon article on the eve of his pinstriped debut.

    Lets all jump in our time machines and remember the spring of 2006 when Johnny’s time in pinstripes was just beginning

    http://nymag.com/news/sports/16528/

  17. Betsy - high on pie December 20th, 2009 at 4:52 pm

    Jerkface, do you mean Dunn? His walks scare me……Is Sanchez a good prospect ? I read that he was converted to a starter in SWB and did well. Still……if he was any good, why would the Bucs have traded him?

    Is De la Rosa the kid that converted from the OF?

  18. Jerkface December 20th, 2009 at 4:53 pm

    Curtis Granderson had a > 1.0 OPS in his first 2 postseason series

  19. raymagnetic December 20th, 2009 at 4:53 pm

    “DeRosa’s not good. Why are you bringing him up?”

    Because he spoke to Derosa’s agent perhaps?

  20. Betsy - high on pie December 20th, 2009 at 4:54 pm

    Jerkface, I hope so……I look forward to seeing him in ST and will be rooting hard for him. I love it when we can introduce a youngster or two a year…….well, maybe 1 as 2 is a lot.

  21. Jerkface December 20th, 2009 at 4:54 pm

    Jerkface, do you mean Dunn? His walks scare me……Is Sanchez a good prospect ? I read that he was converted to a starter in SWB and did well. Still……if he was any good, why would the Bucs have traded him?

    Is De la Rosa the kid that converted from the OF?

    I meant Grant Duff, he is a hard thrower 95-96, touches 99-100. Pitt probably traded him because he wasn’t living up to his stuff. If the Yankee’s can harness it he’ll be a weapon.

  22. Bill December 20th, 2009 at 4:55 pm

    Rumolo Sanchez’ walk rates in the minors are comparable to that of Veras (about 1 every 2 innings).

    Not Mike Dunn bad, but not good either. Melancon though, has excellent control.

  23. Jerkface December 20th, 2009 at 4:56 pm

    WDLR is the converted OF. I like him a lot.

  24. Nick in SF December 20th, 2009 at 4:57 pm

    m: Kay did not refer to this blog explicitly, but he had Cashman on his radio show and mader reference to an “underbelly” of Yankee fans who discuss trades and signings and the like on the internet. I think he used the ‘underbelly’ word three times in the quote that was posted here.

    Anyway, he referred specifically to the “underbelly” treating the Holliday signing as practically imminent, so many think that he was referring to us in particular. Who knows?

  25. Erin December 20th, 2009 at 5:00 pm

    Erica – always OPPC – Bring Johnny Back!!!
    December 20th, 2009 at 4:52 pm
    I decided to finally delete my old Myspace account, but before I do I wanted to rescue the blog writings I used to do on there. In March 2006, I commented on a NY Magazine Johnny Damon article on the eve of his pinstriped debut.

    Lets all jump in our time machines and remember the spring of 2006 when Johnny’s time in pinstripes was just beginning

    http://nymag.com/news/sports/16528/

    **************************

    Good article. Have you completely given up hope about him returning? :(

    Did you catch the Muppets special on NBC last night?

  26. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 20th, 2009 at 5:02 pm

    Erin
    December 20th, 2009 at 5:00 pm

    Good article. Have you completely given up hope about him returning?

    Did you catch the Muppets special on NBC last night?

    ********

    I haven’t given up hope completely, but it doesn’t look good either. I think at this point, Johnson would have to fail his physical to bring Johnny back. And hoping for that makes me feel like a bad person.

    That special is a repeat from last year. I watched some parts of it, but I remembered it

  27. Betsy - high on pie December 20th, 2009 at 5:04 pm

    Jerkface, thanks. It’s a lot easier to say these kids should harness their stuff/control than for them to do it, so I remain skeptical, but we’ll see.

  28. Erin December 20th, 2009 at 5:08 pm

    Erica-I realized the same thing once I started watching it. I don’t know why, but I thought it was new. I liked the one they did a few years go better-the one where they did the “It’s a Wonderful Life” parody.

  29. Jay December 20th, 2009 at 5:09 pm

    Melancon wasn’t that bad in the majors.

    He did have a 3.86 ERA and a 2.80 GB:AO ratio and struck out 10 in 16 innings. Also had a .217 BAA. This includes the horrible September that he had.

    His problem is that he had 10 walks and hit guys when trying to come inside… two things uncharacteristic of him in his minor league career. That is easily correctable now that he has his feet wet at the ML level.

    Girardi also didn’t use him properly at all. He sat for long periods of time (I remember that string right after the ASB where he sat for 2 weeks because we played a ton of close games) and brought him into tough situations (Bases loaded against the Angels/Jays, etc.). His first big league appearance came in a close game in Fenway when we were about to be swept.

    He’ll be fine.

  30. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 20th, 2009 at 5:10 pm

    Erin
    December 20th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
    Erica-I realized the same thing once I started watching it. I don’t know why, but I thought it was new. I liked the one they did a few years go better-the one where they did the “It’s a Wonderful Life” parody.

    *******

    Is it pathetic that I am making a special trip into my office tomorrow or Tuesday (I am on vacation) to pick up my Christmas Eve on Sesame Street DVD that was not returned to me in a timely fashion?

  31. Erin December 20th, 2009 at 5:13 pm

    Erica – always OPPC – Bring Johnny Back!!!
    December 20th, 2009 at 5:10 pm

    Is it pathetic that I am making a special trip into my office tomorrow or Tuesday (I am on vacation) to pick up my Christmas Eve on Sesame Street DVD that was not returned to me in a timely fashion?

    *******************
    Absolutely not!! :D

  32. E-gawa December 20th, 2009 at 5:13 pm

    Jerkface
    December 20th, 2009 at 4:53 pm
    Curtis Granderson had a > 1.0 OPS in his first 2 postseason series
    ——————

    Congrats to him. Matsui has nearly a 1.0 OPS in his first 11 postseasons….

    ..of course this past one helped that number a little

  33. Nick in SF December 20th, 2009 at 5:14 pm

    I vote yes on pathetic.

  34. Erin December 20th, 2009 at 5:16 pm

    Nick in SF
    December 20th, 2009 at 5:14 pm
    I vote yes on pathetic.

    ********************
    Nick, you’re just mean. It’s just not Christmas without Christmas Eve on Sesame Street.

  35. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 20th, 2009 at 5:17 pm

    Nick in SF
    December 20th, 2009 at 5:14 pm
    I vote yes on pathetic.

    ***********

    HISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

    Is it still pathetic if I add that I am going to be in the neighborhood anyway???

  36. m December 20th, 2009 at 5:18 pm

    Nick,

    Thanks. That’s quite a leap to think that he was talking specifically about this blog.

    Underbelly? That’s a lame description from a lame radio guy.

    I don’t understand the disdain he has for common folk. Especially when they know just as much as he does.

  37. Nick in SF December 20th, 2009 at 5:20 pm

    It’s pathetic to not have given all the facts in the first place — “in the neighborhood anyway” does not have the same flavor as “make a special trip” does, no?

    And it’s mean to root against the Yankees re-signing Wang just to win a bet.

    :(

  38. m December 20th, 2009 at 5:20 pm

    How pathetic is it that there was muppet Christmas Special on tv and I thought of the LoHud muppet peoples? :P

  39. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 20th, 2009 at 5:20 pm

    Erin
    December 20th, 2009 at 5:16 pm
    Nick in SF
    December 20th, 2009 at 5:14 pm
    I vote yes on pathetic.

    ********************
    Nick, you’re just mean. It’s just not Christmas without Christmas Eve on Sesame Street.

    ***********

    Thank you Erin!!!!! Some people just don’t get it

  40. CD December 20th, 2009 at 5:21 pm

    it sounds like the surgery was a success.

    of course, Wang had problems pitching even before he hurt his shoulder, stemming from his foot injury.

  41. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 20th, 2009 at 5:21 pm

    m
    December 20th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
    How pathetic is it that there was muppet Christmas Special on tv and I thought of the LoHud muppet peoples?
    *******

    Not pathetic at all. Its thoughtful! The LoHud Sesame Street mafia is very strong :-)

  42. Erin December 20th, 2009 at 5:22 pm

    m
    December 20th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
    How pathetic is it that there was muppet Christmas Special on tv and I thought of the LoHud muppet peoples?

    ***********************
    :)

  43. Phil the Thrill December 20th, 2009 at 5:23 pm

    Melancon, Dunn, Sanchez, De La Rosa, Nova could come up and start in the pen. There’s a bunch of them.

  44. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 20th, 2009 at 5:23 pm

    Nick in SF
    December 20th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
    It’s pathetic to not have given all the facts in the first place — “in the neighborhood anyway” does not have the same flavor as “make a special trip” does, no?

    And it’s mean to root against the Yankees re-signing Wang just to win a bet.

    *******

    I should have given all the facts

    Just to clarify issue #2-
    I am all for a healthy and productive Wang coming back to the Yankees. I would love that. I think he has a lot to bring to the table. However, if that does not occur the $25 you and Pat M will have to pay me will lessen my heartache

  45. Betsy - high on pie December 20th, 2009 at 5:24 pm

    Jay, Melancon will have ups and downs because he’s still very inexperienced, but if he has more ups, then we’ll be ok …..as long as we don’t expect him to be a lockdown reliver.

  46. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 20th, 2009 at 5:24 pm

    Cute thought from the mind of Erica originally blogged on August 17, 2006:

    The Yankees. I love my team. Yesterday they broke ground on a new stadium scheduled to be open in 2009. I don’t think it was supposed to, but it made me really sad. It isn’t so much the idea of closing the ballpark they have now, and knocking down the building that housed many of the greatest moments in baseball in the last 83 years, but rather the thought of the future. There will be another two full seasons before opening day 2009, (hey look, I can do math!), and as I looked at the plans for the new stadium and read about it my mind flashed forward and I imagined my Yankees playing there. And I got a sad feeling wondering which Yankees will be there and which ones won’t. I still think Derek Jeter should run for president, but he can’t play baseball forever (and he actually isn’t old enough to run for president, you need to be 35). Anyway, I don’t know where I am going with this, but I guess I am trying to prepare myself for the day Derek Jeter doesn’t play baseball anymore. Oh. And I am hoping with every ounce I have, that the new ballpark is still Yankee Stadium. Because Verizon Wireless Field, (or insert whatever brand of phone company you’d like), just don’t sound like a place where magical things happen.

  47. Nick in SF December 20th, 2009 at 5:25 pm

    Time to retract that HISSSSS. :)

  48. lets go yankees December 20th, 2009 at 5:25 pm

    E-gawa
    December 20th, 2009 at 4:51 pm

    Matsui’s #’s against the NL are off of the charts.. I’m not just talking about the past WS either.. They’ve always been like that. He’s always owned interleague. His loss alone hurts the line up.. couple that with Damon and his October smarts. I don’t see much of a point to compare.
    It is what it is and I’m trying my hardest to accept it but if we’re talking big games/post season, I’d take Matsui/Damon over Granderson/Johnson any day.

    —————————–

    Why do Matsui’s numbers in interleague play matter? As strictly a DH he can only play in 9 of those games. That is not only an extremely small sampling of the schedule, but they are also the least important games on the schedule. How a player performs in interleague play should have no bearing on the discussion.

    Also, the postseason as well is an extremely small sample. Damon and Matsui both have had their fair share of terrible series and postseason’s in general. Cashman said the postseason will have no affect on his decisions and he is definitely right about that.

    I also do remember several people calling for Girardi to bench Damon in the first round this year….

  49. Betsy - high on pie December 20th, 2009 at 5:26 pm

    Phil, because their arms are so good? Clearly Cash likes Dunn – if he was just a throwaway, he wouldn’t have fought so hard to keep him out of the Granderson deal. I assume he thinks that they can get him to harness his stuff……..

    What can you tell me about DeLa Rosa and Nova ? I missed the first part of Cash’s convo with Kay, but apparently he raved about Nova.

  50. Tony Womack December 20th, 2009 at 5:26 pm

    Off topic but…DEATH TO BEST BUY!

  51. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 20th, 2009 at 5:28 pm

    Nick in SF
    December 20th, 2009 at 5:25 pm
    Time to retract that HISSSSS.

    *********

    NEVER!!!!! I am sure you have done something hiss-worthy. Please just apply it to that :-)

  52. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 20th, 2009 at 5:28 pm

    Tony Womack
    December 20th, 2009 at 5:26 pm
    Off topic but…DEATH TO BEST BUY!

    ******

    Duly noted. (Kind of agreed). But why specifically?

  53. CD December 20th, 2009 at 5:29 pm

    Things are looking grim for Cookie Monster

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related

  54. Rich in NJ December 20th, 2009 at 5:29 pm

    When Robertson first came up, most people thought that he wasn’t that good. As he gained confidence, he proved that he can be in the mix for the 8th inning reliever. To that end, Pete Abe posted stats that showed that he was comparable to Bard. My only concern about D Rob was the elbow injury.

    Similarly, I expect Melancon to establish himself this season.

  55. Rich in NJ December 20th, 2009 at 5:30 pm

    Dunn really needs to improve his command to be able to contribute in a ML pen.

  56. Tony Womack December 20th, 2009 at 5:30 pm

    The Beatles USB Apple arrived with defective FLAC files (otherwise a fun little gadget).

    Anyway…on hold for 58 minutes with customer care. Had to go out and had to hang up. Makes me want to find their corporate headquarters and pummel the CEO with a clipboard.

  57. lets go yankees December 20th, 2009 at 5:31 pm

    Betsy,

    You just have to remember what we started out in the bullpen last year and what we ended with. We also must remember that most of us thought we have a very strong bullpen with Veras, Bruney, etc. Look how that turned out…

    Bullpen guys are so volatile, speculating either way usually ends up being worthless. I can say right now that I am happy with the bullpen. You can say you are not. Yet, there really is no indication whatsoever of if you or I are right. We could go out an sign 3 good bullpen guys and the bullpen could still end up a disaster halfway through the season.

    There is only one thing I know for certain and that is that the BP that starts the year will not be the BP that finishes the year.

    However, Cash has demonstrated in recent years that he is able to put together a very good bullpen by the end of the season for when it matters most in the playoffs. And Girardi has demonstrated he is very good at getting the most out of his guys out there. Those are 2 reasons to be confident. The names on the depth chart right now…Who knows…

  58. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 20th, 2009 at 5:31 pm

    CD
    December 20th, 2009 at 5:29 pm
    Things are looking grim for Cookie Monster

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..re=related

    *********

    I still can’t get enough of watching my 3-year old doing Cookie Monster impressions at my 3rd birthday party (so glad I found that old tape)

  59. Erin December 20th, 2009 at 5:36 pm

    CD
    December 20th, 2009 at 5:29 pm
    Things are looking grim for Cookie Monster

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..re=related

    *********************
    I always crack up at that scene. It’s awful, but hilarious. :)

  60. m December 20th, 2009 at 5:37 pm

    Johnny D. has a 3 year old that does Cookie Monster impressions? What does Lackey’s kid do? His dad?

  61. Nick in SF December 20th, 2009 at 5:38 pm

    “I am sure you have done something hiss-worthy. Please just apply it to that”

    Like this?

    “Now that Erica’s gone, how soon does that Facebook group fold up after we sign Holliday?”

    :)

  62. Betsy - high on pie December 20th, 2009 at 5:39 pm

    Let’s go Yankees – good points!

  63. Rich in NJ December 20th, 2009 at 5:40 pm

    “What does Lackey’s kid do? His dad?”

    Wouldn’t that risk scarring the kid for life?

  64. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 20th, 2009 at 5:40 pm

    Nick in SF
    December 20th, 2009 at 5:38 pm
    “I am sure you have done something hiss-worthy. Please just apply it to that”

    Like this?

    “Now that Erica’s gone, how soon does that Facebook group fold up after we sign Holliday?”

    ***********

    I noticed that when I woke up this morning. Consider it applied :-)

  65. Stan December 20th, 2009 at 5:41 pm

    Melancon will replace Bruney in the bullpen and be healthier in doing so.
    As said by Rich in Jersey, Michael Dunn needs to throw strikes to be a lefty compliment to Damaso Marte.

    http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com....._id=445197

  66. Erin December 20th, 2009 at 5:41 pm

    m
    December 20th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
    Johnny D. has a 3 year old that does Cookie Monster impressions? What does Lackey’s kid do? His dad?

    ***********************
    LOL He has the weirdest voice. Like a weird combo of Kermit and Fozzie

  67. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 20th, 2009 at 5:41 pm

    m
    December 20th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
    Johnny D. has a 3 year old that does Cookie Monster impressions? What does Lackey’s kid do? His dad?

    ****

    ARGH! I missed a pivitol word. It was my 3-year old self doing Cookie Monster impressions at my third birthday party

  68. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 20th, 2009 at 5:42 pm

    Erin
    December 20th, 2009 at 5:41 pm
    m
    December 20th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
    Johnny D. has a 3 year old that does Cookie Monster impressions? What does Lackey’s kid do? His dad?

    ***********************
    LOL He has the weirdest voice. Like a weird combo of Kermit and Fozzie

    *****

    OMG- When I first heard him speak I quickly turned to the TV and yelled “Bert????”

  69. Phil the Thrill December 20th, 2009 at 5:43 pm

    Betsy,

    Melancon is better than Robertson. The other guys need some polish. It would really be pound foolish of the Yanks to spend any money on relievers for awhile. Middle relievers, as I’m sure you know are fungible. One of the dumbest things a baseball exec with a “budget” can do is buy a middle reliever at a free agent price. We are in a position to have a cost controlled pen (other than Mo) for the foreseeable future. If they really want to lower payroll and still compete the first thing they can do is use the kids for the pen.

  70. Erin December 20th, 2009 at 5:45 pm

    Erica – always OPPC – Bring Johnny Back!!!
    December 20th, 2009 at 5:42 pm

    OMG- When I first heard him speak I quickly turned to the TV and yelled “Bert????”

    ***************************
    That sounds like me-the other morning I had my back to the TV, and I got all excited thinking the Muppets were on. I was extremely disappointed. lol

  71. m December 20th, 2009 at 5:45 pm

    Okay. The mystery has been cleared up. We all know that Erica’s not “mature” enough to have kids. (I kid, I kid)

  72. Matt December 20th, 2009 at 5:46 pm

    LOL He has the weirdest voice. Like a weird combo of Kermit and Fozzie.

    …………………………..

    LOL ! … It makes you wonder if Mike Scoscia even heard him say he wanted to stay in the game when he got pulled in the ALCS game.

  73. David December 20th, 2009 at 5:47 pm

    So we have a post that provides a link that shows that Johnson and Granderson are better offensively than Damon and Matsui. So of course we have people just ignoring the link and the evidence. Its astounding.

  74. m December 20th, 2009 at 5:51 pm

    lol. Betsy and Phil trying to talk about baseball…

    How about this, which DH will have the better season?

    1)Hideki
    2)Nick Johnson
    3)Vlad
    4)Dye

  75. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 20th, 2009 at 5:51 pm

    m
    December 20th, 2009 at 5:45 pm
    Okay. The mystery has been cleared up. We all know that Erica’s not “mature” enough to have kids. (I kid, I kid)

    ********

    You joke, but you are probably correct. If I had a child. there would be so much confusion over which Ernie doll belonged to who

  76. David December 20th, 2009 at 5:54 pm

    m-
    1.Nick
    2.Matsui
    3.Dye
    4.Vlad

  77. Betsy - high on pie December 20th, 2009 at 5:55 pm

    Phil, and I don’t think the Yanks are going to spend $$$ on relievers; I do think they like the arms they can bring up or down. Melancon being good (not great) would help a lot.

    We do need more depth for the rotation because Mitre stinks and I’m down on Aceves. I like Gaudin, but he’s barely a 5 inning pitcher. If the Yanks don’t get Sheets, they need to hope that Joba does well and Phil is no worse than a normal #5.

  78. dee December 20th, 2009 at 5:55 pm

    Too bad if the Yankees truly are not considering Holliday, then Bay would be a cheap 2 year option, but I know he’s looking for a 5 year deal. I know his defense is no better than Johnny’s, but for 2 years it wouldn’t be so terrible. Now he’s going to have to settle for the Mets, a team that he doesn’t want to even play for, just to get the security of 5 years.

  79. stuckey December 20th, 2009 at 5:56 pm

    “So we have a post that provides a link that shows that Johnson and Granderson are better offensively than Damon and Matsui. So of course we have people just ignoring the link and the evidence. Its astounding.”

    But David, Cabrera is above replacement level in CF, but below replacement level in left field, despite the fact 1-8 will play play better and he will bat 9th regardless of where he plays defensively, so that Yankees are worse… don’t you understand???

  80. David December 20th, 2009 at 5:57 pm

    Stuckey-I’d like to upgrade on Melky. But I’ll say this. Our outfield defense is much better this year with Granderson and Melky over Melky and Damon. So that is a plus to our changes

  81. m December 20th, 2009 at 5:58 pm

    I’m still waiting for the Matsui + Granderson would’ve been better than Johnson + Granderson article…

  82. Rich in NJ December 20th, 2009 at 6:01 pm

    “Speaking of Wang, is Neil Allen still under contract to the Rays?”

    I’ll answer my own question:

    Wednesday, December 16, 2009

    Named Neil Allen pitching coach of Charlotte (IL);
    __

    If the Rays are interested, I think Wang will sign with them.

  83. CD December 20th, 2009 at 6:03 pm

    Digya know Kermit was involved in Watergate — it’s true, he was deep throat.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related

  84. Nick in SF December 20th, 2009 at 6:07 pm

    Unprovable hypothesis, m. All we have to go on now is the professional judgement of our team’s front office vs. the opinions of those who disagree.

  85. Tom on N.J. December 20th, 2009 at 6:07 pm

    I just realized that Nick Johnson has played in 171 games the last 3 seasons.

    Mark Teixeira played in 172 last year alone.

  86. Rich in NJ December 20th, 2009 at 6:10 pm

    That’s partly why Nick makes less than one-third as much as Teix.

  87. MTU December 20th, 2009 at 6:10 pm

    Rich-

    I hope you are wrong. I do not like that idea. If Wang recovers successfully and Allen is there to get his mechanics back in order and get that sinker going. That might become a nightmare that might come back to haunt us.

  88. rodg12 December 20th, 2009 at 6:11 pm

    stuckey -
    Melky is more valuable in CF because CF is much harder to play that LF. Therefore, his plus D there is much more valuable than in LF. The bat matters much more in LF than CF because it’s easier to play…

  89. gregori December 20th, 2009 at 6:13 pm

    just read the comparison link regarding johnson/granderson, etc. why, with all the statistics available, does no one ever use stats for runners on base, runners in scoring position or runners in scoring position with 2 outs. are these the real important stats regarding hitting. i am aware that getting on base for the next batter is important but isn’t it all about clutch hitting? great pitching doesn’t win unless someone gets clutch hits.

  90. dee December 20th, 2009 at 6:17 pm

    “just read the comparison link regarding johnson/granderson, etc. why, with all the statistics available, does no one ever use stats for runners on base, runners in scoring position or runners in scoring position with 2 outs. are these the real important stats regarding hitting. i am aware that getting on base for the next batter is important but isn’t it all about clutch hitting? great pitching doesn’t win unless someone gets clutch hits.”

    Nick Johnson:

    Runners On .301 BA, 5 HR, 59 RBI, .439 OBP
    Runners in Scoring Position: .313 BA, 4 HR 54 RBI, .488 OBP
    Bases Loaded: .364 BA, 0 HR, 10 RBI, .429 OBP
    Runners Scoring Position Two Outs: .362 BA, 2 HR, 26 RBI, .545 OBP

    That’s pretty damn clutch if you ask me.

  91. Bronx Jeers December 20th, 2009 at 6:18 pm

    I’m proud to be able to call myself a card carrying member of the underbelly.

  92. Abdababdaserser December 20th, 2009 at 6:19 pm

    If the Rays are interested, I think Wang will sign with them.

    ____________

    On turf? A ground ball pitcher in a stadium like Tampa has is something that wouldn’t be very effective. The field they have is pretty poor, making plays for ground balls even tougher.

    I wouldn’t count out any team, but the Rays seem like a move that would hurt Wang’s career more than help it simply because of where they play. Same with the Jays.

  93. lets go yankees December 20th, 2009 at 6:20 pm

    gregori
    December 20th, 2009 at 6:13 pm
    just read the comparison link regarding johnson/granderson, etc. why, with all the statistics available, does no one ever use stats for runners on base, runners in scoring position or runners in scoring position with 2 outs. are these the real important stats regarding hitting. i am aware that getting on base for the next batter is important but isn’t it all about clutch hitting? great pitching doesn’t win unless someone gets clutch hits.

    ——————————–

    Do you think Robinson Cano was a good baseball player last season?

  94. dee December 20th, 2009 at 6:22 pm

    Matsui

    Runners On: .309 BA, 13 HR, 75 RBI, .405 OBP
    Runners in Scoring Position: .303 BA, 8 HR, 65 RBI, .426 OBP
    Bases Loaded: .313 BA, 0 HR, 11 RBI, .313 OBP
    Runner in Scoring Position Two Outs: .269 BA, 1 HR, 26 RBI, .437 OBP

    These are all 2009. For both Matsui and Johnson. I will look up lifetime as well.

  95. rodg12 December 20th, 2009 at 6:23 pm

    gregori -
    Multiple studies have been done on the ‘clutch’ topic and the reason no one uses those number is that over time those numbers neutralize to a players regular numbers…

  96. Erin December 20th, 2009 at 6:23 pm

    CD
    December 20th, 2009 at 6:03 pm
    Digya know Kermit was involved in Watergate — it’s true, he was deep throat.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..re=related

    ***********************
    LOL That’s classic.

  97. Nick in SF December 20th, 2009 at 6:24 pm

    I will be in Charlotte in less than 24 hours; that is no place for Chien-ming Wang.

  98. Benny Blanco December 20th, 2009 at 6:33 pm

    we need to sign wang. I couldnt bear to watch him mow yankee hitters down once he returns to form. He had one bad year and everyone wants to bash him.

  99. Abdababdaserser December 20th, 2009 at 6:38 pm

    Benny, technically it was two seasons that were bad. The first because of the injury, the second because of poor rehab, leading to a more significant injury.

    I would still be very glad to see him back, but there is as big a risk that he won’t be the same after all this as there is that he will bounce back.

    I am hoping he comes back to the pinstripes and shows the world that a sinkerballer can rack up the wins effectively. With Wang pitching as he had been and the better infield defense he would be a monster for the Yankees.

  100. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 20th, 2009 at 6:48 pm

    “I don’t think McCallister is a bullpen candidate, but guys like Wilkins De La Rosa could join the pen. We have a lot of BP guys in the minors though, Duff, Sanchez”
    —————————————————

    and George Kontos, depending on how fast he gets back. I remember attending a Tampa-A game, when Joba and Kennedy were both on the team. I had made the drive to see Kennedy and he was a last minute scratch. I talked with some scout about Kennedy, and he told me Kennedy was overrated. He liked Kontos better

  101. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 20th, 2009 at 6:49 pm

    edit: to clarify i don’t remember if he liked Kontos better. But he did like Kontos

  102. Nick D. December 20th, 2009 at 6:51 pm

    I believe.

  103. Betsy - high on pie December 20th, 2009 at 6:57 pm

    Kontos is out for all 2010, isn’t he?

  104. MTU December 20th, 2009 at 6:57 pm

    Vinny-

    Kontos was making progress at AAA before he went down with the injury.

    If I recall correctly he might have been the next guy they might have looked at for a callup before it happened.

    wasn’t he a name that was being offered in the Pitt deal ?

    When did he get the TJ ?

  105. MTU December 20th, 2009 at 7:00 pm

    vinny-

    i know he is not nearly ready but what can you tell me about Vizcaino ?

    I hear people rave about him sometimes and have also heard that he may have a very high ceiling.

  106. randy l. December 20th, 2009 at 7:03 pm

    “Allen will replace Moloney with the Stone Crabs, which will allow him to live at home in Sarasota, Fla., about a 25-minute drive from the Crabs’ home base in Port Charlotte.

    “I don’t think my wife is going to look forward to seeing me year-round for the first time,” Allen joked. “Bobby (their son) will like it, but mama won’t.”

    Next year will be Allen’s 30th in professional baseball, including 15 as a minor-league coach.”

    http://www.montgomeryadvertise.....ng-coaches

    rich in nj-
    it’s Rays A ball. neil and his wife and young son live on the 7th hole of the best golf course in sarasota. it’s just a move to be home all year round. neil has
    it made. it’s been his home for a long time.

  107. EdWhitson December 20th, 2009 at 7:04 pm

    Anyone else religiously checking this blog every 15 minutes, for a rumor, any rumor for that matter about Matt Halliday ?

    Seems odd that we have not heard anything aside from the STL offer. Is there really that little demand for him ?

  108. rodg12 December 20th, 2009 at 7:05 pm

    That pretty much describes what I’ve been doing the last few days Ed…

  109. Nick in SF December 20th, 2009 at 7:07 pm

    Port Charlotte?

    Never mind.

  110. Rich in NJ December 20th, 2009 at 7:09 pm

    Thanks, randy.

  111. blake December 20th, 2009 at 7:10 pm

    Ed, yea that sums it up pretty much. There has to be more going on behind the scenes with him..I mean the Cards made an offer and its been crickets ever since.

  112. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 20th, 2009 at 7:11 pm

    MTU:

    had cancelled my subscription to Pinstripe Plus 1 year ago. I don’t have the latest info on Kontos. You are right however, he was in the original trade to the Pirates. However, when Dunn failed the physical the trade package changed and we retained Kontos. He definitely looked like he had picked-up momentum as a prospect prior to the injury.

    far as Vizcaino, i wish i were able to tell you details. Am behind on scouting reports, due to not having PP. I do know he skyrocketed up the prospect list this past season (and he was already high to begin with). From what i understand he had a breakout year last year. I believe he has a mid-upper 90′s velocity on his fastball

  113. Rich in NJ December 20th, 2009 at 7:12 pm

    “wasn’t he a name that was being offered in the Pitt deal ?”

    Rumored anyway, as was Coke.

    “When did he get the TJ ?”

    iirc, July

  114. Tom on N.J. December 20th, 2009 at 7:13 pm

    It seems like neither Holliday or Bay wants to be the first to sign.

  115. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 20th, 2009 at 7:13 pm

    “Anyone else checking this blog every 15 minutes, for a rumor, any rumor for that matter about Matt Halliday ?”
    —————————————————
    yup. I believe he was a plant, to increase hits :)

  116. Betsy - high on pie December 20th, 2009 at 7:16 pm

    I don’t think Bay wants to sign with the Mets…

  117. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 20th, 2009 at 7:17 pm

    edit: when Coke failed the physical

  118. Benny Blanco December 20th, 2009 at 7:17 pm

    “Anyone else religiously checking this blog every 15 minutes, for a rumor, any rumor for that matter about Matt Halliday ?

    Seems odd that we have not heard anything aside from the STL offer. Is there really that little demand for him ?”========================

    I have seriously destroyed the refresh icon on my internet explorer. I figure worse case scenario, the yankees will wind up with either bay or holliday.

  119. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 20th, 2009 at 7:18 pm

    “I don’t think Bay wants to sign with the Mets…”
    ——————————————-

    I know he doesn’t. :)

    bet he’s thinking he should’ve given Seattle the hometown discount or at least returned to Boston

  120. Laura December 20th, 2009 at 7:19 pm

    Granderson + Johnson better than Matsui + Damon? Sorry, I don’t buy it. First of all, how anyone can be convinced that Johnson will remain healthy the entire season is beyond me. I’ll be surprised if the guy isn’t on the DL by Opening Day. Those stats also don’t take into account the intangibles that both Matsui and Damon bring to the table. How many guys would have had the presence of mind to do that double steal against PHI? How many players apologize to their team for getting injured? Will Johnson and Granderson mash lefties like Matsui does? Somehow, I doubt it.

    I think Granderson is going to be a good player for us, but if it had been me, I would have left the 2009 team exactly the way it was.

  121. Rich in NJ December 20th, 2009 at 7:19 pm

    It’s apparently not his first choice, Betsy.

    They need to impose a deadline for accepting the offer.

    I would actually like to see Damon sign with the Mets.

  122. Laura December 20th, 2009 at 7:21 pm

    “I don’t think Bay wants to sign with the Mets…”

    Can you blame him? The Mets are going nowhere. They’ll be lucky to finish 3rd in the NL East.

    Bay overplayed his hand much like Damon did. I think that both Bay and Holliday assumed that the Yankees would be in the mix for a LF. Sorry, fellas! Not this time.

  123. Laura December 20th, 2009 at 7:22 pm

    “I would actually like to see Damon sign with the Mets.”

    Rich, why would you wish such hell on Damon? What did he do to you? :P

  124. Doreen - Ain't it Just "Grand"? December 20th, 2009 at 7:22 pm

    WAAAY off topic, but has anyone else here ever had the epiphany of realizing that though you love him/her, you don’t particularly “like” a parent?

    Lots going on at home, so I’ve been checking in here very sporadically. It’s very interesting, because sometimes I feel like I’ve missed a lot; other times it seems like there’s nothing new at all! :lol:

    I could really use some great news from Yankeeville.

    I missed CB’s accounting of Melky as well, and I don’t think I want to read it. I just don’t understand, and never will, why he’s not adequate to play LF. And I will never understand why when the Yankees are trying to get the all-star, the arguments are the Yankees don’t need an all-star at every position, but when they’re not, there’s just as many people (if not the same exact ones) crying about how the non-all-star isn’t good enough. People want home-grown, they say, but as it turns out, they ONLY want home-grown SUPERSTARS.

    I do have a question, though. If a player is developing between the ages of, say 20 and 24, and that player had the minor league part of that development cut short because he was called up to the majors to help out, and continued that development at the ML level, and has been up and down throughout the time, starting off good, but tailing off towards the end of seasons, showing glimpses of being pretty good, but then slumping a bit, yet having some increase in power – well – how does one know for sure that they guy is NOT EVER going to be better than he is?

    How does anyone know from past numbers what the future is going to be exactly?

    I’m thinking of Melky when I write this, of course. He may prove to be as mediocre or worse than many say. But he may not.

    And I don’t every say I think he is an all-star or going to be one, but I do believe he is a darn sight better than a lot of people give him credit for. Mostly because he had a really lousy 2008. I guess.

    Perhaps the Yankees need a stronger guy, who knows? But I don’t think the world falls apart, or their season, if Melky is the LF.

    I’m in a lousy mood. I’m tired. I’m stressed out. But this one subject always manages to get my goat. Maybe I’m dense, but I don’t think so. Hey, if they Yankees can improve, that’s always welcome. But to think they MUST improve – that’s something else entirely.

  125. Rich in NJ December 20th, 2009 at 7:23 pm

    Laura

    I think the Mets have decent talent. The problem for Bay, as I see it, is the OF dimensions of the park.

  126. Doreen - Ain't it Just "Grand"? December 20th, 2009 at 7:23 pm

    And on the topic of the post – I sure hope that Wang pitches well enough for the Yankees to want him back and that they go all out to get him back.

  127. Nick in SF December 20th, 2009 at 7:24 pm

    But everyone is convinced that both Matsui and Damon will remain healthy for the entire season?

  128. Rich in NJ December 20th, 2009 at 7:24 pm

    Laura

    “Rich, why would you wish such hell on Damon? What did he do to you? ”

    Heh. It’s not personal!

    Damon likes NYC, he needs a job, the Mets need an OF, so…

  129. Laura December 20th, 2009 at 7:25 pm

    “I think the Mets have decent talent. The problem for Bay, as I see it, is the OF dimensions of the park.”

    Decent talent? You’re being kind. They have no rotation save for one guy. They remind me of PHI – one excellent pitcher and four “maybe” guys.

  130. Laura December 20th, 2009 at 7:28 pm

    “But everyone is convinced that both Matsui and Damon will remain healthy for the entire season?”

    Damon and Matsui have been healthier in their careers than Johnson has. The Yankees did a good job last season of keeping Matsui’s knees healthy. They could have done it again by following the same script. As for Damon, he did seem to be breaking down there towards the end so I have no idea what we would have gotten from him. The point I’m making is that I would have taken my chances with those guys over Johnson any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

  131. Tom on N.J. December 20th, 2009 at 7:28 pm

    “But everyone is convinced that both Matsui and Damon will remain healthy for the entire season?”

    I don’t. Heck Matsui’s knees get drained by the hour and Damon just pulled a calf muscle.

  132. Rich in NJ December 20th, 2009 at 7:28 pm

    Laura

    Pelfrey was good in 2008, Maine could bounce back, Niese could step, Perez has to be better than last season. You’re right that they do need a starter though.

    They also have three very good players in Beltran, Wright, and Reyes.

  133. Paco Dooley December 20th, 2009 at 7:29 pm

    “First of all, how anyone can be convinced that Johnson will remain healthy the entire season is beyond me.”

    I don’t agree with the principle behind this statement, nor the rest of the message. Matsui is now at least the injury risk of Johnson with the difference in age and his bad knees. Damon is also an injury waiting to happen with all the issues with his legs that seem to be building. I think that the Yankees got out when it was time. Both are set to decline and the Yankees need to work towards the future.

    Granderson and Johnson are both good guys that should bring the intangibles (especially Granderson).

  134. Laura December 20th, 2009 at 7:30 pm

    “Pelfrey was good in 2008, Maine could bounce back, Niese could step….”

    Yeah and I could hit Mega on Tuesday. :P

  135. Laura December 20th, 2009 at 7:33 pm

    “Both are set to decline and the Yankees need to work towards the future.”

    I hope fans like yourself remember this when you look at the stats and find that Matsui is batting .300 with 25+ HRs and over 100+ RBIs and Johnson is on the DL with ….something.

  136. Nick in SF December 20th, 2009 at 7:35 pm

    Sorry, Laura, the jury is waaaaaaaay out on that one.

    That something worked in 2009 is no proof that it would be smart to roll the dice on it in 2010 — especially twice on Sundays.

    (I was pro on bringing back Matsui, btw, but that was the sentimental softie in me)

  137. Doreen - Ain't it Just "Grand"? December 20th, 2009 at 7:36 pm

    Okay.

    And here’s another rant.

    Love Hideki Matsui. Love him. Love that he was a terrific Yankee. can’t believe he apologized for being injured. Love his professionalism.

    However, Hideki Matsui is hobbling around on TWO horrible knees. The Yankees may not have been smart to get a health-risk in NJ, but Matsui was also a health risk. I wanted Matsui back. I wish it was different. But it’s not.

    But Matsui is/was not infallible. He was streaky. He had times when he looked horrible at the plate. Off-balance. Mostly when, ahem, his knees were bothering him, but also other times when he was simply slumping. Nobody better to have up at the plate when he was in a hot streak, but to forget that he had his cold streaks, really bad ones, too, is silly.

    Damon’s fielding was really beginning to be a little shaky, too, and I think I’m being kind. All summer long I recall reading during game threads about this fly ball or that hit Damon’s way, and the adventure it was until he caught it. Not to mention the arm. Or lack thereof.

    And he was cold, cold, cold, the last 4 weeks of the season. ICE COLD. It’s great he came around somewhat during the post season. And its unbelievable the at-bat that game. The stuff of legends.

    But when you’re deciding what your team should look like going forward, and what you want, and when you are talking about getting more athletic, Damon and Matsui do not fit the description.

    In spite of that, I wanted both of them back, because they were terrific Yankees and professionals and all the great stuff you want in a guy on your team. But Granderson, by all accounts, seems to be a guy that will pick up at least some of that slack. Don’t really know enough about Johnson’s personality to say what he’ll bring. But you gotta give it to a guy who keeps getting freak injuries but keeps bouncing back like one of those knock-down dolls that doesn’t stay down.

    Maybe these two have a little more to offer than anyone’s giving credit for.

    Granderson I wanted – badly.

    Johnson, I did not, because of those injuries. But he’s here. And there is another way to look at things. Plus, maybe you figure a guy’s luck has got to turn around somewhere. And perhaps by sticking solely to the DH role, it will cut down on the opportunity for injury. Maybe.

  138. Wally December 20th, 2009 at 7:36 pm

    Doreen:

    “WAAAY off topic, but has anyone else here ever had the epiphany of realizing that though you love him/her, you don’t particularly “like” a parent?”

    You are not alone, believe me. You might want to read: “The Narcissistic Family”

    http://www.amazon.ca/Narcissis.....0787908703

  139. lets go yankees December 20th, 2009 at 7:37 pm

    I never understood why Yankee fans hate the Mets so much. They are completely irrelevant to the Yankees.

    Why root against another home town team when there is no reason to do so?

    The Mets are my second favorite team. When them and the Yankees do well it is good for the city.

  140. stuckey December 20th, 2009 at 7:38 pm

    rodg12 December 20th, 2009 at 6:11 pm

    stuckey -
    Melky is more valuable in CF because CF is much harder to play that LF. Therefore, his plus D there is much more valuable than in LF. The bat matters much more in LF than CF because it’s easier to play…

    _________________________

    So then a simple question. Are the Yankees a better offensive better team (forget defense for a moment) with Granderson in LF and Cabrera in right, then vice versa?

  141. Laura December 20th, 2009 at 7:38 pm

    True, Nick. There’s no way to know that they would have been able to protect Matsui’s knees. I would have at least tried. But maybe that’s me being a sentimental softie.

  142. David December 20th, 2009 at 7:38 pm

    Matsui is just as likely to be on the DL as Johnson. And Damon is a huge injury risk as well. Cashman did the right thing.

  143. Laura December 20th, 2009 at 7:40 pm

    “Maybe these two have a little more to offer than anyone’s giving credit for.”

    I think that Granderson has a lot to offer the team. Nick Johnson, not so much. I’m sorry, the guy has lived on the DL his entire career. What have we seen that is going to make us think that this upcoming season is going to be different?

  144. Abdababdaserser December 20th, 2009 at 7:40 pm

    Some of these “conversations” make me feel like its ground hogs day. Again, and again, and again. lol.

    Doreen, it isn’t a “must have” situation with LF, at least for many of here it isn’t. The thing that gets discussed the most is that signing Holliday (not Bay) would be a very good upgrade for left field, and it adds the bat who can go behind Alex.

    Its the almost perfect fit where he fills the weak spots in the lineup while providing the upgrade in left field.

    The tough part is the salary he would command, and the debate centers around a couple of issue.
    1. He is/isn’t better than Crawford who may be a FA next season.
    2. He can/can’t bat in the AL.
    3. He dropped the ball and cost the Cards the game in the playoffs (never mind that it was more that the pitcher couldn’t get anyone out).
    4. His cost and what it does to the payroll limitations (of which we only have Olney giving out what he thinks it might be).

    There are some valid arguments being waged, but too many of them get debunked somewhat and they come back again later.

  145. Doreen - Ain't it Just "Grand"? December 20th, 2009 at 7:40 pm

    Also, not going on the DL and being healthy are two different things.

    Damon doesn’t like going on the DL. And he manages to stay off of it, how I don’t know. But to say he’s healthy? No way. The guy’s got calves that he can’t stand on when the weather is extreme. He was having so much trouble catching balls he had his eyes checked. Did he not also have headaches or something? I recall a caffeine issue? Damon’s health is managed. If he didn’t get his days off (thanks to Girardi’s way of managing his older players), surely he’d have had a stint or two on the DL.

  146. randy l. December 20th, 2009 at 7:41 pm

    doreen-

    for what it’s worth i have no problem with melky playing left field.

    i’m of the opinion that talent in baseball is so spread out that the yankees don’t need to have an all star at every position.

    if the yankees sign holliday to play left , i’ll probably watch less because they’d be lapping the field by the all star break.

    if cashman really is serious about developing young home grown players, this is as good a time to prove it as anytime. if he signs holiday, all he proves is he can win as a gm if he spends more money than anyone else in the history of baseball.

  147. Paco Dooley December 20th, 2009 at 7:41 pm

    “I hope fans like yourself remember this when you look at the stats and find that Matsui is batting .300 with 25+ HRs and over 100+ RBIs and Johnson is on the DL with ….something.”

    Actually, Doreen said it better than I could. And I won’t look back. I loved Matsui in a Yankees uniform. Damon I was largely indifferent about, but I appreciated both for what they gave the team. But you have to look at decisions in the light of the present and future, and in those terms, the Yankees needed to move on.

    If you had asked the question early in the season, or before it started, how many more fans would have said that the Yankees should let them go after the season? It’s hard after they helped win the World Series, but that doesn’t change the logical choice.

  148. Laura December 20th, 2009 at 7:41 pm

    “I never understood why Yankee fans hate the Mets so much. They are completely irrelevant to the Yankees. Why root against another home town team when there is no reason to do so?”

    I didn’t use to have a problem with the Mets. You can thank their idiot fans for my problem with them now. That and the way they treated Willie Randolph.

  149. Betsy - high on pie December 20th, 2009 at 7:43 pm

    I’m glad Cash didn’t just leave the team the way it is. Standing still just because we never want the team to change is a sure way of going backwards. The Yankees set a price on Damon – he knew the situation going into the offseason and he was still incredibly intransigent. Telling the Yankees to not to bother making an offer if it’s not what they wanted? I don’t blame the Yankees for being ticked off ( I assume they were). Too bad – Damon was too little, too late. Bill Madden’s article was spot on.

  150. Bronx Jeers December 20th, 2009 at 7:43 pm

    Met fans of the mid 80′s made me hate the Mets.

    I rooted for the Red Sox in 86′.

  151. Laura December 20th, 2009 at 7:44 pm

    “If you had asked the question early in the season, or before it started, how many more fans would have said that the Yankees should let them go after the season? It’s hard after they helped win the World Series, but that doesn’t change the logical choice.”

    Paco, I’ve been a Matsui fan since day one. Regardless of his WS performance, I would have wanted him to remain in pinstripes. We’re not even talking long term; the Yankees signed Johnson to a one year deal. I could have lived with one more year of Hideki Matsui.

  152. Betsy - high on pie December 20th, 2009 at 7:44 pm

    Rich, that’s being overly optimistic; the Mets have zero pitching behind Santana. Damon in the NL? I think that’s a terrible idea……for him and for the team that signs him.

    I hate the Mets, but frankly I haven’t thought about them once this off-season.

  153. Paco Dooley December 20th, 2009 at 7:45 pm

    “I never understood why Yankee fans hate the Mets so much. They are completely irrelevant to the Yankees.”

    Well said – I never understood it. I feel agnostic about the Mets. If the Yankees were eliminated from the playoffs and the Mets were in the World Series, I’d probably even pull for them to win since I am a New Yorker above all else.

  154. David December 20th, 2009 at 7:45 pm

    Nick Johnson had close to the same number of plate appearances last year as Matsui and had the third highest obp in baseball. That is enormous value. His ops+ just about the same. Nick is probably less of an injury risk especially since he will mainly be a DH. Matsui’s knees are a ticking time bomb.

  155. Laura December 20th, 2009 at 7:45 pm

    “I rooted for the Red Sox in 86?.”

    Bronx, I hate Mets fans too, but even I have my limits. I rooted for the Mets in 1986 and I’m glad they won.

  156. lets go yankees December 20th, 2009 at 7:46 pm

    Every team has idiot fans. What makes the Mets any different?

    Just think about how exciting the Subway Series was…

  157. EdWhitson December 20th, 2009 at 7:46 pm

    As an aside, 2009 was sort of lightning in a bottle. Everyone was healthy (AJ) and all the older guys (Posada, Damon, Matsui)had good seasons offensively. The Yankees were literally “firing on all cylinders”. When that happens you win WS.

    However, I doubt that would have happened again given the age and health of some players. We won in the late 1990s b/c of a good core where everyone was in their prime. That’s what I think Cash is trying to do again, get a bunch of guys in their prime together (CC, Tex, Swisher, Granderson, Cano, Melky, etc.). Holliday ?

    I think it was a gutsy call to part company with Damon and Matsui, yet at the same time I think Cash is smart to recognize “what got you here, won’t get you there….”

  158. Betsy - high on pie December 20th, 2009 at 7:46 pm

    Doreen, just because Melky is homegrown doesn’t mean he’s talented. He’s not awful, but he’s a 4th OF, emergency starter – that’s all. There’s nothing wrong with that. I like him a heck of a lot more than Brett Gardner.

  159. Paco Dooley December 20th, 2009 at 7:48 pm

    “Paco, I’ve been a Matsui fan since day one. Regardless of his WS performance, I would have wanted him to remain in pinstripes. We’re not even talking long term; the Yankees signed Johnson to a one year deal. I could have lived with one more year of Hideki Matsui.”

    I agree – I am a huge Matsui fan. I’m speaking more about whether Cashman made a decision that makes sense from a team management point of view. But the WS performance definitely made the emotional side of losing Matsui much larger.

  160. Laura December 20th, 2009 at 7:48 pm

    “Well said – I never understood it. I feel agnostic about the Mets. If the Yankees were eliminated from the playoffs and the Mets were in the World Series, I’d probably even pull for them to win since I am a New Yorker above all else.”

    I would root for the Mets if they made the big party and we didn’t because even though I live somewhere else, I’m a New Yorker through and through.

    But I still hate the Mets and their fans. :P

  161. Betsy - high on pie December 20th, 2009 at 7:48 pm

    Rich, they should put a deadline on it, but on the other hand, maybe it’s they who are being stubborn. I’m not following what’s going on – I think I read that the Metes want the 5th year to be an option and Bay wants it guaranteed? This is sort of like what happened with CC last year…….

  162. Laura December 20th, 2009 at 7:49 pm

    “Every team has idiot fans. What makes the Mets any different?”

    They have more idiot fans per capita than the other teams. :P

  163. Nick in SF December 20th, 2009 at 7:50 pm

    Nothing wrong with a fan’s sentiment and nothing wrong with appreciating a great Yankee like Matsui. Maybe he’ll stay healthy and the Angels will tank in the AL West and we’ll get him back for the stretch drive on a salary dump.

    Hank Bauer (mentioned by Mr. Vescey today) was also a great Yankee. Don Larson had some great WS moments. They were both traded for Roger Maris.

  164. Paco Dooley December 20th, 2009 at 7:50 pm

    ““I rooted for the Red Sox in 86?.”
    Bronx, I hate Mets fans too, but even I have my limits. I rooted for the Mets in 1986 and I’m glad they won.”

    Yes! I still love to see the Buckner highlight and the disappointment in Red Sox Nation. My priorities are 1 – Yankees win, 2 – Red Sox lose, 3 – whatever…

    (well, 3 is probably that the Cubs win since I feel terrible for my Cubs loving buddy that is sad year after year!).

  165. Abdababdaserser December 20th, 2009 at 7:51 pm

    Betsy, most FA act the way Boras and Damon did during the early part of the off season. I doubt Cashman would get ticked off by rhetoric he’s heard thousands of times before.

    Matsui and Damon both got burned a bit by timing and priorities that the Yankees plan laid out.

    Damon was the preferred candidate, he was playing coy about it. Matsui had an offer that probably had some time limits on it, Cashman wasn’t ready to commit to Matsui at that point because Damon wasn’t settled. Matsui left to sign with a team that was there with an offer in hand. (Plus the supposed opportunity to play LF).

    Damon pushed the line too far for too long. The Yankees went with a backup plan and were set with Johnson in the role that Damon would have been taking for the larger part. That put Damon’s value even lower as they didn’t really have the position for him to play that was optimal for the Yankees plan.

  166. EdWhitson December 20th, 2009 at 7:52 pm

    Laura, to be fair, the last time Matusi put up .300, 25+, 100 was circa 2004 – 2005. I like the guy, but fans tend to overvalue their favorites, b/c we remember there best years from back in the day. Said differently, some players really don’t age before us b/c of sentimentality. “It’s Hideki, he’s always great!”

    Again, not bad mouthing him, just making an observation.

  167. Bronx Jeers December 20th, 2009 at 7:52 pm

    “Bronx, I hate Mets fans too, but even I have my limits. I rooted for the Mets in 1986 and I’m glad they won.”

    I know. It’s weird. I”m a Yankee fan that actually felt the pain of Buckner.

    It’s not my fault though. I was conditioned to hate the Mets. I used to get beat on and abused by Mets fans fairly regularly during the early 80′s. I would have rooted for any team that faced the Mets.

  168. Paco Dooley December 20th, 2009 at 7:53 pm

    “I would root for the Mets if they made the big party and we didn’t because even though I live somewhere else, I’m a New Yorker through and through.”

    Maybe not living in NY makes it easier to not hate the Mets with a passion. I live outside the US now, but am also a native New Yorker that grew up during the days of the Bronx Zoo…

  169. Abdababdaserser December 20th, 2009 at 7:53 pm

    “Every team has idiot fans. What makes the Mets any different?”

    I think its because they are too close. Kind of like the pesky little brother in the room next door. Meaningless for the most part, but they still bug you every chance they get.

  170. Doreen - Ain't it Just "Grand"? December 20th, 2009 at 7:54 pm

    Abda -

    I’m okay with all those discussions regarding a LF. The only one I’m not okay with is the “Melky” factor.

    I am kind of siding with Randy l here. Melky/Gardner worked out in CF last season – to the tune of a World Series championship. I will never understand how simply moving that tandem to LF is any different than being in CF. Oh, I know there are metrics that will say otherwise, and “matchups.” But, really, as CFs, how did Melky/Brett match up against, say, Torii Hunter or whichever other CFs patrolled the AL outfields last season? I’d reckon not too well. For that matter, how did Damon match up against the various LFs?

    I think Cash should get a back of the rotation pitcher, a good one, to add to the pitching depth and then be done with it. At this point, you need to go forward with this “plan” he’s had. If you get a Sheets or a pitcher of the same quality which necessitates Joba or Hughes not being used as starting pitchers, and, (though Sheets on a one-year deal doesn’t kill the plan) taking a place that over time should go to a pitcher developed in their system, well, then just go back to the old we’re buying every free agent mold.

    If it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work. But, it seems to me, this is the now-or-never moment. Do you believe in your plan or not? And heaven knows, as done Randy l, I am a huge Cashman supporter.

    If he gets Holliday, I don’t necessarily think he’s selling out, but it’s a bit of overkill. I can see it from the standpoint that they no longer have to hold a spot open for Austin Jackson, and Swisher’s contract will be done by the time a new “homegrown” appears to be ready (if there is one), but Melky was instrumental in a lot of wins last year, lets anyone forget.

    And, there’s always mid-season to correct any problems. And at this, Cashman has usually done a great job.

    Wally – sounds like an interesting book. :)

  171. Betsy - high on pie December 20th, 2009 at 7:54 pm

    So we should purposely go with a weak LF just so Cashman can prove himself to his critics? The Yankees would lap the field with Holliday? Wow, do I disagree with that…….and even if they did, so what? I don’t get Yankee fans that think we should take pity on other teams.

    Cashman doesn’t have to prove himself and he especially doesn’t have to prove himself with a player like Melky, who isn’t that good to begin with (but he must be because he’s homegrown).

  172. Laura December 20th, 2009 at 7:54 pm

    “(well, 3 is probably that the Cubs win since I feel terrible for my Cubs loving buddy that is sad year after year!).”

    Hate to tell you, Paco – your buddy is going to be disappointed yet again this upcoming season. I don’t see the Cubs doing anything in 2010 either.

    You know, people in baseball always talk about the bad Yankee signings we’ve had over the years; how come no one is raking the Cubs over the coals for that Soriano deal? Behind Vernon Wells in TOR, it is the 2nd worst contract in baseball.

  173. lets go yankees December 20th, 2009 at 7:54 pm

    Laura
    December 20th, 2009 at 7:49 pm
    “Every team has idiot fans. What makes the Mets any different?”
    They have more idiot fans per capita than the other teams.

    ——————————

    I understand you are joking to a certain degree, but I just do not understand the logic. There are plenty of stupid NYY fans just as there are Met fans, but generally people from NY know their baseball fairly well. I guess more than anything I am looking for a real answer because I have been wondering about this Met hatred for quite some time…

  174. UpState December 20th, 2009 at 7:55 pm

    Doreen – Ain’t it Just “Grand”?
    December 20th, 2009 at 7:22 pm
    WAAAY off topic, but has anyone else here ever had the epiphany of realizing that though you love him/her, you don’t particularly “like” a parent?

    LEFT FIELD

    Lots going on at home, so I’ve been checking in here very sporadically. It’s very interesting, because sometimes I feel like I’ve missed a lot; other times it seems like there’s nothing new at all!

    I could really use some great news from Yankeeville.

    ALOT IN PREVIOUS THREADS !

    I missed CB’s accounting of Melky as well, and I don’t think I want to read it.

    WHY THE HECK NOT ?

    I just don’t understand, and never will, why he’s not adequate to play LF.

    WATCH HIM PLAY.

    And I will never understand why when the Yankees are trying to get the all-star, the arguments are the Yankees don’t need an all-star at every position, but when they’re not, there’s just as many people (if not the same exact ones) crying about how the non-all-star isn’t good enough. People want home-grown, they say, but as it turns out, they ONLY want home-grown SUPERSTARS.

    WHY WOULD A FAN WANT LESS THAN WHAT THEIR TEAM WAS ABLE TO EITHER DEVELOP, TRADE FOR, OR OBTAIN ?

    I do have a question, though. If a player is developing between the ages of, say 20 and 24, and that player had the minor league part of that development cut short because he was called up to the majors to help out, and continued that development at the ML level, and has been up and down throughout the time, starting off good, but tailing off towards the end of seasons, showing glimpses of being pretty good, but then slumping a bit, yet having some increase in power – well – how does one know for sure that they guy is NOT EVER going to be better than he is?

    CODY RANSOM ??? WHY AREN’T FANS BLATHERING FOR HIM AND DOZENS OF OTHERS THAT ARE – AT BEST – MARGINAL MAJOR LEAGUERS ???

    How does anyone know from past numbers what the future is going to be exactly?

    SO EXACTLY WHY DID THE YANKEES AND ALMOST THE ENTIRE FANBASE WANT HIM OUT ???

    I’m thinking of Melky when I write this, of course.

    YOU’RE KIDDING ME !!!

    He may prove to be as mediocre or worse than many say. But he may not.

    …AND HE ALSO MAY BE A VERY GOOD GOVERNOR OF NEW JERSEY or MAYBE AN EXCELLENT GAME-SHOW HOST, TOO !

    And I don’t every say I think he is an all-star or going to be one, but I do believe he is a darn sight better than a lot of people give him credit for. Mostly because he had a really lousy 2008. I guess.

    …AND A LOUSY 2009, TOO.

    Perhaps the Yankees need a stronger guy, who knows?

    ….MOST EVERYBODY FEELS THAT THE YANKEES COULD/SHOULD TRY TO GET A STRONGER GUY…..NO…LET’S ACTUALLY TRY AND GET A CRAPPIER GUY !!!

    But I don’t think the world falls apart, or their season, if Melky is the LF.

    ….AND THE YANKEE UNIVERSE SURELY WOULDN’T BE WORSE OFF IF HE WERE EITHER REPLACED OR TRADED !!! THE WORLD WOULD ALSO CONTINUE TO BE OK, TOO.

    I’m in a lousy mood. I’m tired. I’m stressed out. But this one subject always manages to get my goat.

    SPEAKING OF GOATS – (or bears) – DOESN’T MELKY REMIND EVERYONE OF FOZZIE BEAR TRYING TO PLAY THE OUTFIELD ??

    Maybe I’m dense, but I don’t think so.

    “………….”

    Hey, if they Yankees can improve, that’s always welcome.

    THE KEY STATEMENT OF THE RANT

    But to think they MUST improve – that’s something else entirely.

    OK, WELL – THEN LET’S MAYBE HOPE THAT THE YANKS CONTINUE TO MAKE MOVES THAT WOULD ‘MAKE THEM SUCK’…THAT’S ALWAYS A REALLY GOOD DIRECTION.

    SHEEEEEESH !!!

  175. Doreen - Ain't it Just "Grand"? December 20th, 2009 at 7:56 pm

    Betsy -

    It’s been an awfully long “emergency” start for Melky in CF, wouldn’t you say? He’s been manning the position for the better part of 3 years.

    Just because a guy is not an all-star doesn’t necessarily make him a 4th OF.

  176. Betsy - high on pie December 20th, 2009 at 7:56 pm

    I make no apologies for despising the Mets…….the only reason I “rooted” for them in 1986 was because I hated the Sox even more. It doesn’t make you less of a NYer if you hate the team on the other side of town.

    I also could have lived without the Subway Series – if the Yankees had lost, it would have been mortifying.

  177. Laura December 20th, 2009 at 7:57 pm

    “I like the guy, but fans tend to overvalue their favorites, b/c we remember there best years from back in the day.”

    Or their best moments. His clutch hits are very much more in the forefront of my mind than those times when I wanted to beat him to death for those frustrating pulls of outside pitches to 2B. He wasn’t perfect, but it just seemed that more often than not, he came up with a big hit when we needed it.

  178. Betsy - high on pie December 20th, 2009 at 7:58 pm

    Doreen, by the same token, just because a player is homegrown doesn’t make him a starter.

  179. CR9 December 20th, 2009 at 7:59 pm

    In the semis of my Fantasy Football money league, I started Aaron Rodgers over Ben Roethlisberger in my teams’ 200 point performance and drubbing of my opponent on the way to the finals.

    In the spirit of the NE Patriots, I should have started Ben (53 points) over Aaron (52 points) to rub it in by 1 point more!

  180. lets go yankees December 20th, 2009 at 7:59 pm

    Betsy,

    I am not trying to be condescending. I honestly want to know why you hate the Mets.

  181. CR9 December 20th, 2009 at 7:59 pm

    Did anyone see the end of that GB/Steelers game?

    What a finish.

  182. MTU December 20th, 2009 at 8:02 pm

    Opinion please:

    Is NJ being paid too handsomely to be a bench player/part-time DH ?

  183. David December 20th, 2009 at 8:02 pm

    Melky in Center was fine last year because Jeter had an amazing year the Posada had a very good year as well. Jeter is likely to recede a little and Posada could very well see some decline. In light of that, it would be a good idea to improve over Melky in our lineup.

  184. Laura December 20th, 2009 at 8:05 pm

    “I understand you are joking to a certain degree, but I just do not understand the logic. There are plenty of stupid NYY fans just as there are Met fans, but generally people from NY know their baseball fairly well. I guess more than anything I am looking for a real answer because I have been wondering about this Met hatred for quite some time…”

    Yeah, I was joking there. For me, it really IS about their fans. Even though I don’t live in NYC anymore, I still listen to the FAN (I know, stupid!), I still read the NY papers (online) and I still have friends that are Met fans. I’m still exposed to their stupidity even though I’m over 700 miles away. I know that all teams have idiot fans (I live 4 blocks from Wrigley so trust me, I know what I’m talking about). Met fans just seem worse to me. But that’s probably because I’m a Yankees fan. I bet if you asked White Sox fans, they would tell you that Cubs fans are the worst. I guess what I’m saying is that it’s all relative.

  185. Betsy - high on pie December 20th, 2009 at 8:05 pm

    Let’s Go, I don’t know – I assume I started hating them when I became a Yankee fan as a kid. I think it’s natural, to be honest – Cubs fans hate the Sox and vice versa. My father doesn’t care – he likes both teams (but he’d pick the Mets if forced). I don’t understand that because he grew up in Brooklyn when the Giants/Dodgers/Yankees ruled the roost. Talk about rivalries…….

    However, let’s say I just had disdain for them and not hate – that disdain would have turned to hate after the way they treated Willie.

  186. Bronx Jeers December 20th, 2009 at 8:05 pm

    Nick Johnson is going to be a part time player?

  187. UpState December 20th, 2009 at 8:06 pm

    Bronx Jeers

    December 20th, 2009 at 7:43 pm
    Met fans of the mid 80’s made me hate the Mets.

    Laura
    December 20th, 2009 at 7:49 pm

    “Every team has idiot fans. What makes the Mets any different?”

    They have more idiot fans per capita than the other teams.

    ==============================================

    Two Bulls-eyes !!!

  188. Doreen - Ain't it Just "Grand"? December 20th, 2009 at 8:06 pm

    Upstate -

    Thank you for the capitals. I always appreciate being scolded from cyberspace. I guess you tend to overstate your opinions.

  189. Frank December 20th, 2009 at 8:07 pm

    “Is NJ being paid too handsomely to be a bench player/part-time DH ?”

    5 and half mil? Yes.

  190. Frank December 20th, 2009 at 8:08 pm

    “Did anyone see the end of that GB/Steelers game?”

    Very entertaining game. Lot of good ones today

  191. Doreen - Ain't it Just "Grand"? December 20th, 2009 at 8:09 pm

    Betsy -

    That’s true. But not every player is going to be above average. I think he’s an average player. Maybe the numbers don’t bear that out, and I suspect that’s what CB’s post about Melky had to do with. I don’t think he hurts them, because they are strong in so many other areas. You cab’t have a team fully of Melky Cabreras, but the Yankees can afford to have one of him.

  192. MTU December 20th, 2009 at 8:10 pm

    Bronx-

    this is just part of another idea I was considering and to begin considering the whole scenario I needed to get a handle on wether or not the amount the Yanks paid Johnson would make it prohibitive for him to spend more time as a bench player ?

    Is the 5MILL too much for Johnson split his time between DH and the bench, or must he play almost all of the time at DH
    for that amount to amke sense ?

  193. Abdababdaserser December 20th, 2009 at 8:11 pm

    Doreen, in developing a team you want to put together the best opportunity to win. Even if you are looking to build from within, though I don’t get so caught up in “home grown” vs. “mercenaries” as if it makes a difference to what uniform they wear.

    The Yankees farm system have some outfield talent, but they are years away from playing for the big club. With Melky in Left its a downgrade from the normal production that you would normally get from that position.

    We want to see the young pitchers get their chance to develop. There are a couple of ways to help that along. Hide them till they are ready or fail. Give them superior offense to help them over the valleys of their bad starts till they can stand on their own.

    Personally, I would rather the Yankees not sign Sheets. I think they have the starters they need in Joba and Hughes. Especially since they are the back end of the rotation and should be as good or better than most of the other clubs.

    I also have enjoyed watching Holliday play. He’s one of those gritty type players, but doesn’t come off as a spoiled child when things don’t go well. Of course that is in limited games that I have seen, but he seems like a big gamer type player, and we lost that in Damon.

    Melky is fine. He’s fun to watch at times, but it just doesn’t seem like he is going to improve his game much. Having Melky in the lineup over a Holliday points to bringing in another SP and moving one of Joba or Hughes to the pen.

    Melky just doesn’t stack up for me as a player as much as the value I place on Joba and Hughes.

    I think its a personal preference thing.

    If the Yankees don’t sign Holliday, I’m fine with it. If they do, I’m more than fine with it because I’d see more of a player that I like to watch.

  194. blake December 20th, 2009 at 8:12 pm

    Tomlin is a lucky lucky man. Had they lost that game he would have been ripped to shreds for trying an onside kick with a 2 point lead. Big Ben bailed him out on that one…

  195. MTU December 20th, 2009 at 8:12 pm

    Frank-

    that’s what I thought but I was trying to cook up something else.

  196. blake December 20th, 2009 at 8:13 pm

    Mlbtraderumors must like Chad’s writing. They refer to many of his posts on this site.

  197. David December 20th, 2009 at 8:13 pm

    Blake-Do you really think the Steelers defense stops the Packers no matter where they start from? I don’t. The onside kick gave Pittsburgh time to come back.

  198. MTU December 20th, 2009 at 8:14 pm

    Abda-

    How does Melky stack up against league average in Right field ?

    Same as a left field comparison or different ?

  199. Frank December 20th, 2009 at 8:15 pm

    “He’s one of those gritty type players, but doesn’t come off as a spoiled child when things don’t go well”

    Sort of like Paul O’Neill….’cept for the 2nd part?

  200. Betsy - high on pie December 20th, 2009 at 8:15 pm

    MTU, I’m not sure why you think NJ is a part-time DH/bench player; he’s the full time DH

  201. MTU December 20th, 2009 at 8:16 pm

    Betsy-
    I was working on a hypothetical.

  202. yo ho ho December 20th, 2009 at 8:17 pm

    I never understood why Yankee fans hate the Mets so much. They are completely irrelevant to the Yankees.

    ————————

    I take it you don’t live in or near the city?

    Mets fans may seem like lovable losers from afar, but trust me buddy, appearances can be deceiving.

  203. Frank December 20th, 2009 at 8:19 pm

    MTU:

    Even in a hypothetical, you have to think that whatever money paid to the guy that bumps Johnson to the bench is costing the Yankees his salary plus $5M. This is exactly the stuff that Cashman is looking to avoid.

  204. MTU December 20th, 2009 at 8:20 pm

    Betsy-

    I was trying to find a way for Erica to still have a chance at happiness.

    Are you staying warm ?

  205. David December 20th, 2009 at 8:20 pm

    I hated the Mets in the 80s, because I was a Yankees fan growing up on Long Island and those Mets fans were obnoxious. Now I just feel bad for Mets fans and don’t really hate them anymore. Of course, I live in Maryland now. Could be different if I still lived there.

  206. Abdababdaserser December 20th, 2009 at 8:21 pm

    MTU, I’m not sure where Melky ranks in RF, though I think it looks a little better than LF.

    The real value that could come from Melky is his being a 4th OF because he can cover all three outfield positions. That isn’t something a lot of players can do. He also swings an above average bat for that type of role.

    Johnson as a DH is pretty close to a full time player, though he will have games off just as Matsui did to fit in other players who get the half day off. I think he is of decent value, but I would have preferred to have Matsui for the higher dollar amount.

  207. blake December 20th, 2009 at 8:21 pm

    Abdababdaserser,

    I agree with you. I think Holliday would be a bigger upgrade over Melky than another starter would be an upgrade over Joba or Hughes. I think Sheets if healthy could make the kind of impact that Holliday could but given his history with injuries I think thats a bigger risk. I almost think they could sign Holliday and be done for the offseason, maybe sign Duchsherer and let him compete for a starting spot with Hughes and Joba. I have no idea what their plan is but with the lack of pitching available that makes the most sense to me if the “budget” allows it.

  208. MTU December 20th, 2009 at 8:21 pm

    Frank-

    I understand that.

    That is why I asked that question first.

  209. Doreen - Ain't it Just "Grand"? December 20th, 2009 at 8:22 pm

    Abda -

    Thank you for your take on Holliday vs. Melky as an option in LF. I understand what you’re saying. I have never, ever seen Holliday play (with the exception of a highlight/lowlight here and there on ESPN/MLB). I am not entirely closed off to an upgrade over any player, and I don’t embrace a player only because they’re homegrown and I think, generally, if there’s a FA that makes sense (financially and performance-wise) I can embrace that, as well.

    In general, I guess I wonder at the dichotomy of those who want homegrown, but balk if they’re not exceptional; and of those who clamor for the best available player at every position vs. it’s okay to have a player or two who are not the best at that position.

    I think Cashman does have an opportunity here to let the young pitchers take off their training wheels (or in the case of Hughes, to do so in a more limited sense). I think if the cost for Holliday is too high, it is not going to devastate the Yankees to keep Melky in LF. That’s my real thing: that it seems to be the general feeling that Melky is a horrible player that costs or will cost the Yankees games and I simply don’t see that.

    Now, I am a little concerned about the 5th spot in the order, but not overly. It seems to be a fluid thing over the course of a season anyway – if the #5 guy is on a cold streak, you switch up the order anyway, and it’s someone else. Or if the guy can’t play the field in the NL parks. Or whatever. Fluid.

  210. blake December 20th, 2009 at 8:23 pm

    David, I didn’t say it was neccessarily the wrong move, just that the media would have toasted him if they had lost just like they did Belechick for going for it on 4th down.

  211. MTU December 20th, 2009 at 8:23 pm

    Abda-

    Thanks for your opinion on melky.

    I am sure CB could tell us for certain.

  212. OldYanksFan December 20th, 2009 at 8:24 pm

    Arodys Vizcaino
    http://www.thebaseballcube.com.....aino.shtml

  213. Laura December 20th, 2009 at 8:24 pm

    “Now I just feel bad for Mets fans and don’t really hate them anymore.”

    David, do you think they felt bad for us during the 80′s, when we won nothing? Do you think they cried for us last year when we failed to make the playoffs for the first time in a decade? I don’t feel bad for Met fans. After how that organization treated Willie Randolph, they are getting exactly what they deserve.

  214. David December 20th, 2009 at 8:24 pm

    Blake-I think the media was wrong in that case as well. The percentages of the Patriots making 4th and 2 were greater than them stopping Peyton Manning at that point.

  215. Betsy - high on pie December 20th, 2009 at 8:25 pm

    Doreen, just so you know, I don’t dislike Melky. I think he’s best suited for a certain role, but I like how he fits on the team (not as a starter, particularly) – certainly better than Gardner.

    I’m a bit torn on the issue because I really have concerns about the pitching……CC and AJ are find. Andy is pitching in the #3 spot and he’s going to give us #s more in line with a #4. It’s Joba I’m concerned about. Phil will give us #5 numbers, but maybe better because he’s awfully talented and he’s got stud potential. We could live with Phil in the #5 spot if I were sure that Joba would be good. I’m not sure about that. I don’t even know if he’ll come to camp in shape. Signing Sheets? That’s a good risk. Could we sign a LF too? I doubt it…..I don’t even know that we could sign one (Holliday) now. The point is – if we sign Sheets, we could “live” with Melky for now. However, though I think Jeter will be fine, Posada is aging pretty fast. I suspect he could be the type to fall off a cliff. If we have any injuries (to anyone, nevermind just the old guys), then it really hurts us to have Melky in LF.

  216. Abdababdaserser December 20th, 2009 at 8:25 pm

    Frank, yeah. I know Paulie was admired by a lot of fans because of his temper tantrums, but it always put me off. I guess I’m more appreciative of how Jeter handles things. I also think that keeping the emotions in check is better for the player in baseball.

    Don’t get me wrong, I liked what O’Neill brought to the Yankees.

  217. MTU December 20th, 2009 at 8:27 pm

    Abda-

    I was just considering if it might be possible to still bring Damon back if he gets “abreuized”, and still needs a home. NJ is sort of blocking him.

    Gardener can go to AAA.

    Melky to the bench 4th OF.

    Trying to work the possibilites as an exercise that’s all.

  218. UpState December 20th, 2009 at 8:27 pm

    “…You cab’t have a team fully of Melky Cabreras, but the Yankees can afford to have one of him…”
    ==============================================
    Why would you want to “afford” to have Melky as a starter, instead of trying to improve ???

    Sounds like a Red Sox fan’s wish for the Yankees, now doesn’t it ??? (did Gammons actually say that before ?)

    So with that logic, we should have Yogi Berra back in LF….hey – the 2010 Yankees can afford to have a lovable 80 year old outfielder….why EVER try to improve over Yogi…..EVER !!!

  219. blake December 20th, 2009 at 8:28 pm

    David, I think the Belechick call was the right one to make. However the onside kick tonight was much more of a risk, the chances of recovering an onside kick, even a surprise one, are pretty low. I understand why he did it. If they don’t get it then they are basically giving the Packers a touchdown quickly so they would have time to do what they did and win, but it was a pretty big risk to take and shows zero faith in your defense.

  220. lets go yankees December 20th, 2009 at 8:29 pm

    yo ho ho
    December 20th, 2009 at 8:17 pm
    I never understood why Yankee fans hate the Mets so much. They are completely irrelevant to the Yankees.
    ————————

    I take it you don’t live in or near the city?
    Mets fans may seem like lovable losers from afar, but trust me buddy, appearances can be deceiving.

    ————–

    I live between Gramercy and Murray Hill, so yeah I do live in the city. I also have many friends who are Mets fans and my girlfriend’s entire family is full of Mets fans so I am exposed to them quite often.

    Like I said, most people from the NY area know their baseball pretty well. I cannot say the same of other fanbases after reading Halos Heaven during the playoffs. The Mets have stupid fans just like the Yankees do, so that argument fails to persuade me in any fashion.

    I tend to think rationally. There is no rational basis in my mind for hating the Mets. Nothing they do has any impact whatsoever on the Yankees. Games against the Kansas City Royals mean more to the Yankees then games against the Mets.

    If anything I find it rational to root for the Mets and that is why I do. It is great for the city when both teams are doing well. Also, there was nothing better in my mind then the Subway Series. The city was electric during that time and I would love to experience that again.

    Great, some Met fans are obnoxious. Hate them, but there is no reason to hate the Mets. If I followed that logic I would hate the Yankees as well.

  221. MTU December 20th, 2009 at 8:29 pm

    OYF-
    Thanks for the info. on Viz.

    Not much there about his ceiling or stuff.

    looks like he improved remarkably as he moved up.

    Is that right ?

  222. Frank December 20th, 2009 at 8:30 pm

    Abda:

    Agree 100% on O’Neill.

  223. blake December 20th, 2009 at 8:32 pm

    “I was just considering if it might be possible to still bring Damon back if he gets “abreuized”, and still needs a home. NJ is sort of blocking him.”

    I think Damon would have to eat a lot of humble pie before that would happen. If they don’t sign Holliday and Damon’s price falls that far then I don’t think its out of the question if Damon is willing. With Granderson in CF, Damon’s bat would be more valuable than Melky’s glove IMO.

  224. David December 20th, 2009 at 8:32 pm

    test

  225. Betsy - high on pie December 20th, 2009 at 8:32 pm

    Doreen, if the Yankees develop players that turn into solid (or even average) players, that’s still a success story. Cervelli and Pena came up and helped us enormously last year – and no one thinks they are stars to be. Every team needs a BUC – and now we have one. I think Randy’s concerns about Cervelli now are valid – though I’m not sure I agree with him. The point is, whether it’s now or two years from now, Frankie is going to help us. We already know the kid is a very good catcher and terrific at calling games. That’s a success story. Melky is not terrible by any means…

  226. blake December 20th, 2009 at 8:33 pm

    Favre time.

  227. Rich in NJ December 20th, 2009 at 8:34 pm

    I don’t have strong feelings about the Mets, but unlike many of their fans that call WFAN, if they were playing the arch rival of the team I root for in the WS, I would have no trouble rooting for the Mets.

  228. MTU December 20th, 2009 at 8:34 pm

    Blake-

    thanks for not shooting it down out of hand.

    I was just trying to challenge the propositon we often hear, and that i told myself that Damon is finished as a Yankee.

    Passing some time waiting for the barn door to close again.

  229. Abdababdaserser December 20th, 2009 at 8:35 pm

    Doreen, I think the issue of the 5 spot in the lineup is another reason why a number would love to see Holliday in pinstripes. Though Matsui, who was sort of the 5th batter only hit there about 65 games last season.

    It can be fluid, but I think the veteran bats like hitting in a more set order. It was one of the things we heard there were grumbles about in the clubhouse the first year that Girardi managed.

    The other thing that I value with Holliday added is it can help out if one of the bigger bats goes down with injury.

    Betsy, we all know there were struggles with Joba in the starting role, but he also pitched a couple of gems. I just am not ready to see him go to the pen when he has shown some glimpses of brilliance as a starter. If he keeps his ERA around what he had this year but gets more economical with his pitches and goes deeper in the games (again, like he showed in a couple of games) then he is a big time weapon for the Yankees.

  230. akamgkrebs December 20th, 2009 at 8:35 pm

    I was just considering if it might be possible to still bring Damon back if he gets “abreuized”, and still needs a home. NJ is sort of blocking him.

    Gardener can go to AAA.

    Melky to the bench 4th OF.

    Trying to work the possibilites as an exercise that’s all.

    ———————————————————

    And how exactly does that upgrade the outfield defense, the second most important mission, according to Cashman?

  231. Doreen - Ain't it Just "Grand"? December 20th, 2009 at 8:35 pm

    Betsy -

    A person could go player by player and find something to be concerned about going forward, especially as the players get older. I don’t know, frankly, what Joba’s going to bring to the table next season, but I feel like this is the year for Joba to just let it rip. He doesn’t have to prove he can stay healthy; he doesn’t have to hold back because of an innings limit. We’ll never really know what makes him tick or stop ticking, but having a lot of extraneous stuff in there (rattling around in his head) can’t help. If he’s too mindful of too many things, maybe that affects his effectiveness to some degree.

    Anyway, we’ll see, won’t we?

    I don’t want either guy in the pen, really. And getting a Sheets guarantees that one of them will start the season in the pen and it’ll be determined in spring training, and I don’t like that idea. 4 slow weeks can determine the trajectory of at least an entire season, if not an entire career, for one of these guys. It is a cause for concern.

    What if they get Holliday and he really CAN’T hit in the AL? What if it wasn’t the hitters surrounding him in Oakland, but that the AL experience is so completely different from the NL experience? What if they spend all that money and are stuck with him on a 5-year contract and he can’t do it?

    There are questions surrounding everyone on that roster. Will they be as good as/better/worse than their 2009 performance? Will those balance out so that as a team, they’re still great, or will everyone have a fall-off year?

    You can drive yourself crazy. :)

    And as far as Melky’s bat off the bench as a 4th OF, I don’t know. To me, not everyone is good coming off the bench. Defensively, fine. Offensively? A question mark. I wouldn’t assume he’d be valuable off the bench in an offensive capacity, playing only sporadically.

  232. blake December 20th, 2009 at 8:37 pm

    MTU, yea I know. If his price fell to the Abreu level from last year and Holliday ends up in St. Louis or elsewhere then I wouldn’t mind having Damon’s bat in the lineup at all. They could bring Melky or Gardner in for defense late in games.

  233. MTU December 20th, 2009 at 8:38 pm

    Aka-
    It is not preferrable to Holliday.

    But it might be preferrable to Melky.

    Wasn’t that the original plan to have Damon as a part-time LF
    Dh type so they wouldn’t loose his bat ?

  234. Doreen - Ain't it Just "Grand"? December 20th, 2009 at 8:38 pm

    Upstate -

    Continue to cherry-pick my statements. Sigh.

    No team can have everything. Not even the Yankees. If they decide not to upgrade in LF (or if Holliday goes elsewhere), it’s not the end of the world nor is it the end of their season.

  235. MTU December 20th, 2009 at 8:40 pm

    Blake-

    gardener has options left. He could be sent down, and Melky would be a great reserve OF no doubt about that.

    Gardener could also be offered.

  236. Betsy - high on pie December 20th, 2009 at 8:40 pm

    Aba, I’m not ready to put Joba in the pen, either…..I just have concerns about him. I hope he gets his head out of his rear end, starts listening to people who know more than he does and regains some of his lost velocity.

    Doreen, I detest the idea of competition – and I’m thinking mostly of Phil. Joba would beat him out because he’s more advanced (thanks to Phil being in the pen last year). Phil should be using ST to work on pitches, etc……not trying to win. If he goes to the pen, he will be set back as a SP enormously.

  237. JMK aka The Overshare December 20th, 2009 at 8:40 pm

    Met fans are whiners

  238. lets go yankees December 20th, 2009 at 8:41 pm

    JMK aka The Overshare
    December 20th, 2009 at 8:40 pm

    Met fans are whiners

    ————————–

    I guess you have not been around this blog lately….

  239. Doreen - Ain't it Just "Grand"? December 20th, 2009 at 8:43 pm

    Abda -

    When I said the 5 spot is fluid, I was talking more about the effectiveness of the #5 guy, not necessarily having a different guy there. Meaning, sometimes Matsui was great in the #5 spot, and other times, when he was not swinging quite so well, he wasn’t quite as good. (But re-reading my post, I think I covered that other aspect as well.)

    I do realize a set batting order makes the players feel more secure. They are creatures of habit, it would seem. :)

  240. MTU December 20th, 2009 at 8:43 pm

    Betsy-

    PatM has said what I thought regarding Joba.

    That he should have been sent to an off-season conditioning program like the one Phil attended.

    The Athlete’s performance Institute.

    Look it up you might find seeing their pitcher’s training programs very interesting.

    I know i did.

  241. akamgkrebs December 20th, 2009 at 8:44 pm

    MTU, yea I know. If his price fell to the Abreu level from last year and Holliday ends up in St. Louis or elsewhere then I wouldn’t mind having Damon’s bat in the lineup at all. They could bring Melky or Gardner in for defense late in games.

    ———————————————————-

    Damon started 128 games in of in 2009; presumabl9 he’s start evenless i n 2010. You suggest he’d be ok & put in defensive replacement in late innings. So how much should be paid to an of who’ll start 120 or so games, max, & play only 7 innings?

  242. Abdababdaserser December 20th, 2009 at 8:44 pm

    MTU, I guess it would be possible for a Damon return, even for a 2 year stint for the right price, but his defense isn’t going to be better than Melky’s at this point, at least from what I’ve seen this past year.

    His bat and his manner are his biggest value. With the Yankees signing Johnson the need for Damon dropped. He would have been able to play some LF which would have allowed DH to be open to others and shifting of Melky to CF or RT to give those positions a day off from the field.

    I can see Damon being more ready to take a lower deal for a year from another club than from the Yankees. There is some pride involved in that. Its easier going elsewhere making less than it is to face your old team mates knowing everyone knows your value dropped. While I think he would get over it, it just seems that for both parties there could be lingering negative feelings.

  243. MTU December 20th, 2009 at 8:46 pm

    Doreen-

    One of things that made Mats so great was the protection he afforded A-Rod out of the 5 hole. Pat M has spoken of it many times here.

    He is a big advocate of protecting A-Rod properly.

    One of the benefits of Holliday would be to do just that.

  244. Doreen - Ain't it Just "Grand"? December 20th, 2009 at 8:46 pm

    Betsy –

    I know what you’re saying. But I think the bias going in will be Joba for the pen if anything. I am hopeful that Girardi will be looking at things besides wins during ST, based on some of his post-game interviews when we would all think a pitcher stunk up the joint and he would say he was encouraged. :)

  245. Rich in NJ December 20th, 2009 at 8:46 pm

    If you look at the Yankees’ salary commitments for 2011, I don’t think it’s possible to make a case to give him two years.

  246. David December 20th, 2009 at 8:47 pm

    test again

  247. akamgkrebs December 20th, 2009 at 8:48 pm

    Aka-
    It is not preferrable to Holliday.

    But it might be preferrable to Melky.

    Wasn’t that the original plan to have Damon as a part-time LF
    Dh type so they wouldn’t loose his bat ?
    ————————————————————

    no, the plan was to have Damon as the regular dh, who could occasionly play the of

  248. MTU December 20th, 2009 at 8:48 pm

    abda-
    I understand what your saying and I basically agree with it.

    It was really more of an exercise than a likely outcome.

    Pays to consider things. no harm in that right ?

  249. Abdababdaserser December 20th, 2009 at 8:48 pm

    Doreen, I did understand your point about moving a batting order around the “hot hitters”. Girardi did do that a little bit last season and the season before.

    Matsui was only batting behind Alex in about 65 games (not sure if it was exactly 65, but close to that). Some of the changes in the batting order was to match up to pitchers and giving time off for the starters. Girardi will probably continue to do that, especially with the bottom of the lineup.

  250. Laura December 20th, 2009 at 8:49 pm

    “Met fans are whiners”

    Far be it for me to defend Mets fans, but considering the state of that organization, they have reason to whine. I just wish they whined in a less annoying fashion. :)

  251. MTU December 20th, 2009 at 8:50 pm

    Aka-

    Ok. But that was not my understanding.

  252. Abdababdaserser December 20th, 2009 at 8:51 pm

    MTU, absolutely. On a personal level, I would love to see Damon back. He won me over as a fan big time, and its tough to see him go.

    I think about moves like that myself.

    I think its part of the fun of this blog.

  253. Tom on N.J. December 20th, 2009 at 8:52 pm

    I was the only Yankee fan on my block as a kid.

    It was the 80s and the Mets were good and the Yankees were being managed by Stump Merrill.

    That being said, a lot of those kids are now Yankee fans.

  254. UpState December 20th, 2009 at 8:52 pm

    Doreen – Ain’t it Just “Grand”?
    December 20th, 2009 at 8:38 pm
    Upstate -

    Continue to cherry-pick my statements. Sigh.

    No team can have everything. Not even the Yankees. If they decide not to upgrade in LF (or if Holliday goes elsewhere), it’s not the end of the world nor is it the end of their season.
    =============================
    I believe the entire rant was copied and commentary (in CAPS) was interspersed throughout.

    I am simply amazed that a Yankee fan (or any other fan) would purposefully and blatently NOT want to improve their team at “the cost” of fawning all over a marginal player. ….yet never come to the defense of Cody Ransom or Colter Bean or Matt DeSalvo….or the dozens of others that were/are marginal.

  255. Rich in NJ December 20th, 2009 at 8:52 pm

    What’s with the tests, David?

  256. blake December 20th, 2009 at 8:53 pm

    I think theres a very real possibility that Damon’s price falls to a one year deal somewhere in the 5-10 million dollar range. If Holliday falls through then I wouldn’t mind having Damon’s bat around for a year.

  257. Tom on N.J. December 20th, 2009 at 8:54 pm

    Emergency Blogcast System?

  258. akamgkrebs December 20th, 2009 at 8:54 pm

    mtu-
    right. But if you believe that, with the current situation of NJ as dh , you prefer Damon over Melky in lf, then you’re saying you disagree that the Yankees need to upgrade the outfield defense; you rather think the plan should be to add more offense; that is UNLESS, you want Damon in lf & move Swisher to have Melky play rf; that would also improve the outfield defense.

  259. blake December 20th, 2009 at 8:55 pm

    “Emergency Blogcast System?”

    haha, this is a test of the Emergency Blogcast System, this is only a test

  260. Wally December 20th, 2009 at 8:55 pm

    Doreen:

    Good luck with your “problem”. You have lots of company. The book I suggested might help. Don’t get all tied up in knots because some of the posters here are not overly kind. You are under a lot of stress! Take a step back and if you find this board confrontational then it’s best just to read. If posting lets you get some of your anger and frustration out then that’s a plus. Take care.

  261. Abdababdaserser December 20th, 2009 at 8:56 pm

    Upstate, the discussions are also trying to keep things realistic in terms of payroll, and other areas that could use the supposed limited funds.

    I’m sorry, but I really couldn’t get through your whole post. When I see caps interspersed throughout like that I find it difficult to read.

    Most of us here would love to see upgrades to the club, but we differ on where the upgrades are really needed.

  262. Doreen December 20th, 2009 at 8:58 pm

    Upstate -

    I am not fawning over any player. I have no idea why you are bringing up Ranson, DaSalvo, etc.

    I don’t think Cabrera kills the Yankees. So sue me. Where did I say I didn’t want the Yankees to improve themselves?

    And now, kindly stop picking on me and accusing me of being somehow an “inferior” fan because I happen to like a player that you do not.

  263. MTU December 20th, 2009 at 8:58 pm

    Abda-

    Ok. then let’s consider this together.

    Suppose we cant Get Holliday

    And suppose we do not want to use melky as our everyday LF.

    and suppose we can’t get damon any longer.

    What do we do.

    Well we first would consider available FA’s.

    I wonder what you think of marlon Byrd under the above scenario for LF/CF sub.

    Could he work if he were still available /

    might he be a good choice ?

  264. Tom on N.J. December 20th, 2009 at 9:00 pm

    If there is a budget what would be the best use of the avaiable resources:

    Sheets (or Duchscherer) and a player like Mark DeRosa or Matt Holliday?

  265. yo ho ho December 20th, 2009 at 9:00 pm

    Don’t get too worked up, let’s go yanks.

    It’s not like it’s a blood feud…more like a sibling rivalry like another poster mentioned.

    The odd thing is this topic has never really come up until you mentioned it.

  266. Nick in SF December 20th, 2009 at 9:01 pm

    Had this been a genuine blog emergency, you would have been directed into the comforting embrace of Jose Molina.

  267. Rich in NJ December 20th, 2009 at 9:01 pm

    Byrd’s career OPS+ is 99. Is he really appreciably better than Melky or Gardner? Plus, he will be 33 next season. At least Melky or Gardner have a chance to get better.

  268. blake December 20th, 2009 at 9:01 pm

    I’d rather stick with Melky than spend money on Byrd. Plus I think the Cubs are pretty heavy after him. The Yankees have a perfect option available to upgrade LF, if they choose not to act on that then I think you just stick with what you have unless Damon falls in your lap.

  269. MTU December 20th, 2009 at 9:03 pm

    Tom-

    my choice would be Holliday because he would make the offense more potent than sheets might be likelly to do on the other side of the equation.

    But I dont like your premise.

    Let’s get both.

    agree to disagree on it otherwise.

  270. MTU December 20th, 2009 at 9:05 pm

    Rich-

    fine. It’s just a drill.

    who would you suggest ?

  271. David December 20th, 2009 at 9:05 pm

    Rich-I said a bad word, so I was blocked by the spam blocker. Chad took care of it and I’m back.

  272. David December 20th, 2009 at 9:06 pm

    Rich-Agree about Byrd. DeRosa fits the same bill. I’d go with Melky if its just a player like that.

  273. UpState December 20th, 2009 at 9:06 pm

    Abdababdaserser
    December 20th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
    Upstate, the discussions are also trying to keep things realistic in terms of payroll, and other areas that could use the supposed limited funds.

    I’m sorry, but I really couldn’t get through your whole post. When I see caps interspersed throughout like that I find it difficult to read.

    Most of us here would love to see upgrades to the club, but we differ on where the upgrades are really needed.
    =========================================
    Used CAPS to differentiate the response/commentary from the original muti-faceted rant……colors or highlights not available…

    Deepest apologies !

  274. rodg12 December 20th, 2009 at 9:07 pm

    stuckey -
    No, of course not. That’s not the crux of the argument though. What that alignment does do is weaken Granderson’s value which isn’t something you want to do. You always want to maximize value as much as possible. Like David said in an earlier post, it’s dangerous for the Yanks to count on all their guys having great years like they did last year. As such, you need to maximize your value as much as possible and a great way for the Yanks to do so is to upgrade LF to a better option than Melky.

  275. MTU December 20th, 2009 at 9:07 pm

    blake-

    i apologize. i didn’t make it clear enough.

    I am saying in the scenario to suppose that the Yanks had decided those conditions.

    and that would mean THEY do not want to use him that way.

    Comprendo ?

  276. bru December 20th, 2009 at 9:07 pm

    Doreen – Ain’t it Just “Grand”?
    December 20th, 2009 at 7:22 pm
    WAAAY off topic, but has anyone else here ever had the epiphany of realizing that though you love him/her, you don’t particularly “like” a parent?

    Lots going on at home, so I’ve been checking in here very sporadically. It’s very interesting, because sometimes I feel like I’ve missed a lot; other times it seems like there’s nothing new at all!

    I could really use some great news from Yankeeville.

    I missed CB’s accounting of Melky as well, and I don’t think I want to read it. I just don’t understand, and never will, why he’s not adequate to play LF. And I will never understand why when the Yankees are trying to get the all-star, the arguments are the Yankees don’t need an all-star at every position, but when they’re not, there’s just as many people (if not the same exact ones) crying about how the non-all-star isn’t good enough. People want home-grown, they say, but as it turns out, they ONLY want home-grown SUPERSTARS.

    I do have a question, though. If a player is developing between the ages of, say 20 and 24, and that player had the minor league part of that development cut short because he was called up to the majors to help out, and continued that development at the ML level, and has been up and down throughout the time, starting off good, but tailing off towards the end of seasons, showing glimpses of being pretty good, but then slumping a bit, yet having some increase in power – well – how does one know for sure that they guy is NOT EVER going to be better than he is?

    How does anyone know from past numbers what the future is going to be exactly?

    I’m thinking of Melky when I write this, of course. He may prove to be as mediocre or worse than many say. But he may not.

    And I don’t every say I think he is an all-star or going to be one, but I do believe he is a darn sight better than a lot of people give him credit for. Mostly because he had a really lousy 2008. I guess.

    Perhaps the Yankees need a stronger guy, who knows? But I don’t think the world falls apart, or their season, if Melky is the LF.

    I’m in a lousy mood. I’m tired. I’m stressed out. But this one subject always manages to get my goat. Maybe I’m dense, but I don’t think so. Hey, if they Yankees can improve, that’s always welcome. But to think they MUST improve – that’s something else entirely.

    ————————————————————

    switch to decaf

  277. Rich in NJ December 20th, 2009 at 9:07 pm

    MTU

    If not Holliday, then I would stick with what they have. If Melky or Gardner aren’t producing as the AS break approaches, I would look to upgrade by the deadline. By then some of their prospects could have increased their trade value.

  278. Tom on N.J. December 20th, 2009 at 9:08 pm

    Well, I was working under a self created premise that may of may not exist.

    And I do agree that Holliday would be the better choice.

  279. blake December 20th, 2009 at 9:09 pm

    Tom, I think Holliday is the best player available and would make the biggest impact. So if he fits in the budget I would go with him, if not then Sheets would also make a significant impact if healthy. I personally think Derosa is a waste of precious payroll. He would be nice to have around but there are more pressing things to consider than an overpriced utility guy IMO.

  280. Doreen December 20th, 2009 at 9:10 pm

    bru -

    Now, that’s a plan! Thanks. :)

  281. blake December 20th, 2009 at 9:10 pm

    MTU, I don’t think I’m following.

  282. MTU December 20th, 2009 at 9:10 pm

    Rich-

    Please stick to the hypothetical.

    I am saying that the Yanks have decided the WONT use Melk.

    Do you have an idea for a FA outfielder to target ?

    maybe later we can add the possibility of a trade after we exhaust the FA targets.

    Just a drill.

  283. PittsburghYankeeFan December 20th, 2009 at 9:10 pm

    Speaking of the GB/Steeler game, I just got back from it.

    What a game. Watched the final play from about the 30, 15 rows up. A photographer showed his shot of Wallace coming down in bounds on the Jumbotron before the refs came back from the replay area, and the crowd went wild.

    The Steelers without Kemoatu on the O line and Polomalu in the defensive backfield are really exposed. They can’t run the ball and cannot stop the pass late. Their only hope is to have the ball the last possession–like the old San Diego Chargers of Don Coryell. Big Ben throwing for 510 yards? Just like Air Coryell.

    OK, back to the Yankees. Damon is thought of as a DH, not a LF. The Yankees signed a DH. End of story. I liked Johnny a lot, as well as Matsui–both are real pros. However, time to move on.

    The Yankees are fine with Melky as the LF. They don’t need a team of superstars at every position. However, I think they are really tempted by Holliday–if George were still running things he’d already be signed to an over market deal. Maybe Cash and Hal ARE going to ask George–stranger things have happened.

    Don’t sign Holliday, and Crawford decides to sign with the Jays, then where are you going into 2011? You have to plan for this year, especially with a $200 million dollar team.

  284. David December 20th, 2009 at 9:12 pm

    I don’t want Crawford at all. He’s the kind of players who declines fast and hard. I’d use my money next year on Cliff Lee.

  285. DaSaint007 December 20th, 2009 at 9:13 pm

    Some here advocate for Holliday as if it were impossible to repeat as WS champions if Melky plays LF in 2010 and is our #9 hitter. I beg to differ.

    While an argument can be made that some older players may regress next year, and we may lose some production from not having Matsui and Damon, I give a counter-argument:

    I think the following players may do better in 2010:
    Tex – more used to his teammates and stadium.
    Cano – another year under his belt, better @ RISP. More RBIs.
    A-Rod – full year vs. injury shortened season. Expect 40/120/.300
    Swisher – better average
    Melky – another year under his belt, more power, more RBIs.
    Posada – better average, better production due to DH days.

    Worse production:
    Jeter – average may be down, less power.

    Do we need Melky to do better than 15HR, 70 RBI, .280 AVG? I don’t think so. Were those stats on a player on another team, we’d be clamoring for him saying how productive he was for the value, how young he was, etc., etc.

    I don’t think the Yankees want to spend on another major contract this season, and would rather do so next season. In fact, and this could be based soley on the economy, they may prefer to spend in alternate years, just as a precaution as the economy recovers.

    Anyone who thinks that Hoffmann is spending an entire season on this team (without a corresponding move to remove someone else on the 25-man roster) is delerious. For now that’s just a roster spot, but one that can be filled by another player the moment the need arises.

  286. GeorgeInJax December 20th, 2009 at 9:13 pm

    The kid is still super raw and will be going to A ball this year, but Melky Mesa will likely be our next big future star in the farm system. Hit 20 Hrs in low A , 20 may not seem many, but at that level its huge. The next highest teammate was at 5HR. He strikes out a lot & has very low OBP. But if he takes care of of those issues he’ll rocket through the ranks.
    He’s a speedster too. I would venture he is at least 2 years out. I can’t wait to see him play a few times this year at Tampa (if that’s where he goes).

  287. Tom on N.J. December 20th, 2009 at 9:13 pm

    I was just throwing a name out there, Blake. Holliday is the best player out there-by far.

    I don’t like DeRosa, however, his name has been mentioned in the media as somebody the Yankees like.

  288. blake December 20th, 2009 at 9:13 pm

    MTU, if they theoretically decided that they didn’t want Melky in LF and Holliday wasn’t an option then I probably would either 1)explore the trade market or 2) have scientists clone Holliday and sign the clone. I can’t think of anything else, I don’t like the other FA’s

  289. Abdababdaserser December 20th, 2009 at 9:13 pm

    MTU, I think Melky would probably be viewed as a better fit than Byrd in that role.

    I can see a move being made if it makes the Yankees appreciably better, I’m not so sure that Byrd would be that much of an upgrade.

    Going back to Damon a bit. I think when the Yankees signed Johnson it decreased the value that Damon was slotted for. His defense was fine at times, but there were times when it was poor.

    I think you want to look at the trade off of offense to defense or vice versa. Overall I think Melky has enough of both skills to overcome the difference that Damon’s skills brought.

    In signing Johnson it also filled the number 2 batter slot, further declining Damon’s value. At least on paper.

    I think if Holliday is signed with a club, the Yankees would probably let it play out with the Melkman in left. If it looks like they need an upgrade it would come in trade during the year.

  290. GeorgeInJax December 20th, 2009 at 9:13 pm

    So we may have 2 Melky’s in the outfield by 2012

  291. MTU December 20th, 2009 at 9:14 pm

    Blake-

    just accept the hypothetical.

    Supply some names of any FA outfielders you think the Yanks could target.

    I know you would prefer Melk but I am asking you to suspend your best judgement and substitute the hypotheical that Melk is not an option.

    understand ?

  292. Rich in NJ December 20th, 2009 at 9:15 pm

    MTU

    I am not aware of a significant upgrade from Melky/Gardner that won’t either cost too much money or too many player assets other than Holliday.

    If Bay calls Cash and says give me one year (assuming Holliday isn’t an option), I would consider it, but that’s not going to happen.

    Can we steal DeJesus? I doubt it.

    I don’t see any good options.

  293. David December 20th, 2009 at 9:17 pm

    DeJesus is a good idea.

  294. MTU December 20th, 2009 at 9:17 pm

    Blake-

    i was trying imagine how the process might go.

    Obviously they may not do any of it. None of it may make any real world sense. It’s just an exercise while we wait for the reality whatever it may be.

    The next step if they needed an OF would be to consider a trade.

    trades ?

  295. blake December 20th, 2009 at 9:17 pm

    DaSaint, I dont think anybody is saying that there is no way the Yankees can win the WS with Melky in LF. I think they probably would still be favored to repeat if they didn’t do another thing this offseason.

    However, I think you should try to improve whenever you can and unless Melky is going to be the longterm solution in LF then Holliday may be the best chance for an upgrade for awhile. Theres nothing in the minors at that position.

  296. PittsburghYankeeFan December 20th, 2009 at 9:18 pm

    Ben Sheets may be a beast, but he wants beast money, and someone will pay it, possibly in the NL. Watch the Cubs on this one. Again, a one year deal in the NL will showcase him for the FA class of 2011 perfectly.

    I think the Yankees are ready to wait for pitching, perhaps trading Gardner or Melky plus prospects at some point. The quality of the pitcher will be determined by the prospects. If I’m Cash, I wait until the trade deadline when I get a better idea of Joba, Hughes, Wang, and maybe even Bedard. Your #5 will give maybe 10-12 starts in the first half. Keep that in mind.

  297. MTU December 20th, 2009 at 9:20 pm

    FA targets anyone ?

    nobody see anyone the Yanks might go to ?

  298. blake December 20th, 2009 at 9:21 pm

    MTU, Bay hypothetically, but his price would have to drop quite a bit.

  299. GeorgeInJax December 20th, 2009 at 9:21 pm

    Of all those hypothetical FA outfielders, how many could we get at less than $3M/year, Is about 25yo, with a good arm & developing bat. already gave you 15HR 70 RBI the previous year?

    I would venture that there would be very few low cost alternatives to Melky.

  300. MTU December 20th, 2009 at 9:23 pm

    Blake-

    That’s fine.

    That would get us started.

    How much are you prepared to offer to get bay now that you have targetted him ?

    What is your bid ? Why that amount ?

    see where I am going with this ?

  301. GeorgeInJax December 20th, 2009 at 9:24 pm

    Cashman wants a younger more athletic team.
    At the $3m Melky is getting, your not going to find a young more athletic replacement.

  302. UpState December 20th, 2009 at 9:24 pm

    Doreen
    December 20th, 2009 at 8:58 pm
    Upstate -

    I am not fawning over any player. I have no idea why you are bringing up Ranson, DaSalvo, etc.

    I don’t think Cabrera kills the Yankees. So sue me. Where did I say I didn’t want the Yankees to improve themselves?

    And now, kindly stop picking on me and accusing me of being somehow an “inferior” fan because I happen to like a player that you do not.
    =========================
    You are certainly fawning over Cabrera,
    You make him out to be so much better than he is – just because he’s from our MiL system…..it ceratinly appears that you’d prefer him over any superior OFer from say the Mets (or anyone elses)system. That seems ‘out-of-balance’ to Yankee fans that are hoping for improvement.
    Ransom, DeSalvo, Bean – just recent examples of players also not ‘on-grade’ that no one was upset over as they were being ‘replaced’…..just curious that you fall all over (fawn) Melky in favor of an improvement. If he’s you son – fine – all would completely understand the fawning. If Melky is, in fact, a relative – I do apologize.
    Promise not to sue.
    Not picking on you – just responding to a terrifically odd rant of yours on a blog.
    Blind loyalty can appear to be worse than you imagine in relation to helping your team….your overwhelming support of Melky instead of potential improvement (because you like him) does in fact appear to be something a Red Sox fan would also support, thus the double-edged sword of Blind Loyalty.

  303. blake December 20th, 2009 at 9:24 pm

    Pittsburg, I agree that Sheets will probably prefer an NL team because for a one year deal its whats he’s used to and he will probably put up better numbers. It wouldn’t make much sense to come to the AL east for 1 or 2 years and try to impress people unless he is blown away with money.

  304. Rich in NJ December 20th, 2009 at 9:25 pm

    The biggest problem with Melky in LF is who is the #5 hitter.

    Cano? I think his ability to hit with RISP will normalize, but it may not.

    Posada? Maybe, but at his age a decline becomes more likely.

    Granderson? Against RHP that could work.

  305. DaSaint007 December 20th, 2009 at 9:26 pm

    Ben Sheets may be a beast, but he wants beast money, and someone will pay it, possibly in the NL.
    ———————————————————–
    Holliday and Bay are ‘beasts’ also, but no one’s paying them ‘beast’ money as yet. I don’t think the market gets more expensive the longer a player waits.

    Blake,

    I hear you, but I don’t ascribe to the theory that every position has to be improved every year, just because you can, unless that player is hurting your team.

    Frankly, I can select multiple players who are better than our current bullpen, but a decision has been made (and a sound one I may add) that you don’t need to replace every bullpen arm with a high-priced FA just to be productive. And surely, the bullpen is vitally important.

    Next year’s crop of Free Agents looks to be a good one, and if any of the remaining FAs from this year were wise, they would take a 1 year contract so that they could be in next year’s pool, as the economy may be in better condition thereby releasing some teams from their self-imposed financial constraints.

  306. Abdababdaserser December 20th, 2009 at 9:27 pm

    UpState, no apology needed, just thought it might be helpful to know how at least one of us (me) saw that post.

    One way you might use to separate other’s comments from your response if putting in a line. Or if you know how to do it, use italics or bold. That is easier to read for an ol’ guy like me. ;)

    DaSaint… I don’t think there is as big a problem with Melky being the left fielder as some others might. I agree that with the addition of Granderson (isn’t that still feeling grand?) and the upgrade he brings offensively and defensively to Center is enough to counter having Melky in left.

    That said, I can also see the value of Holliday in left especially over a period of time when there isn’t going to be talent coming up that could fill that role. It could be that Melky takes a big step forward, trouble is he hasn’t over the last few seasons. While he is still young enough to have a breakout, he has been in the majors long enough that it seems like it should have had some signs it could come by now.

    I think the Yankees would be a bigger favorite to repeat with Holliday, given the changes that the team had this off season. That doesn’t mean it has to be.

    Wow, Peterson is just amazing! (He is a strong dude. (Sorry for the off topic).

  307. blake December 20th, 2009 at 9:27 pm

    MTU, 2 years, 22 million. I think he strikes out too much and would be worse than Damon in spacious YS LF. He does have power though so I’ll offer him 2 years 22 million and he will laugh at me and go sign with the Mets.

  308. MTU December 20th, 2009 at 9:27 pm

    George-

    For the sake of this exercise assume you have the budget you need but that it is of course not totally unlimited.

    I am asking to brainstorm so to speak but within some givens.

    that’s all.

    Isn’t it even slightly possible that this might be the way Cash and co. have to do things ? of course, they’re game is a real world one.

    Don’t they have a board, a budget, a set of targets and a set of priorities /

    were just playing a little game like that.

  309. Abdababdaserser December 20th, 2009 at 9:31 pm

    BTW… new topic. ->

  310. pat December 20th, 2009 at 9:31 pm

    Doreen

    I hear you. I love my family but there are times when I have to remind myself that you get to pick your friends, not your relatives. Perhaps a glass or 2 (or 5) of wine or a Calgon moment would help? Remove yourself physically from the situation for a mental break- even a brief one.

    I hear you on Melky too. I’m not willing to say what he will or won’t be next year but right now, he is the best of the alternatives on the roster.

    Give me a better alternative and I’ll re-evaluate. Until Holliday or Damon or anyone else is SIGNED, they are not a real alternative because no one knows what constraints Cash is working with and if their signing is anything more than a pipe dream.

    Betsy

    I don’t think of Melky as more than a 4th OF because he’s homegrown. I think of him as more than a 4th OF because defensively he wasn’t a 4th OF for the majority of last year.

  311. blake December 20th, 2009 at 9:31 pm

    DaSaint. Just curious, who are you targeting in next year’s free agent class? Hallday is already gone. Pujols and Mauer will probably sign extensions..That leaves Crawford, Werth, Beckett, and Cliff Lee as impact players.

    The Yankees already have to re-sign Jeter and Rivera next year.

  312. Tarheelyank December 20th, 2009 at 9:32 pm

    Hey Upstate

    Your post at 7:55 was out of line. Leave Doreen alone.

  313. MTU December 20th, 2009 at 9:33 pm

    Blake-

    I was hoping for a more realistic answer.

    remember the conditions. You are trying to be Cash not yourself.

    You(he) have targetted Bay. Tell me how you are realistically gonna get him knowing what you know about his
    market, and about your ability to pay ?

    Not totally wild ideas. you know that aint gonna get it.

    2-22. we need rope man !

  314. David December 20th, 2009 at 9:34 pm

    Granderson is the number 5 against righties and Posada is number 5 against lefties.

  315. blake December 20th, 2009 at 9:36 pm

    MTU, its hard for me to answer that question because my high bid for him would be lower than what the Mets or Red Sox have already offered him and he has rejected.

  316. NYY626 December 20th, 2009 at 9:37 pm

    The Yankees already have to re-sign Jeter and Rivera next year.
    ________________________________________________________________
    Sometimes its really tough to be a yankee fan ;)

  317. Tom on N.J. December 20th, 2009 at 9:38 pm

    Jack Cust or Russell Branyan. Although Branyan hasn’t played LF in a season or two.

    Neither can field particularly well, but they can hit.

    I guess the point is, the other FA outfielders, be it Byrd, DeRosa, Ankiel, Church are all flawed or not very good.

  318. PittsburghYankeeFan December 20th, 2009 at 9:39 pm

    DaSaint

    The only reason Sheets may get more money waiting longer is that he is going to audition in January. Kind of like Aroldis Chapman.

    Once the GMs see/hear about his actual stuff, and look at his medicals, I suspect one of them will bite.

    Holliday and Bay are just going down in price, I agree. I think Bay is waiting on Holliday. If he does not sign with the Cards, then Bay is a decent fit for them, at likely $14 x 4. Too bad, if you don’t like the $15 x 4 from the Mets, Jason. It’s the best you’re getting.

  319. Doreen December 20th, 2009 at 9:43 pm

    Upstate -

    I have never, ever said that Melky was a great player. I haven’t fawned. I have defended him as a player not deserving of the level of disregard that so many have for him.

    Because I’m okay with the Yankees keeping Melky in LF as a viable option for 2010, you think I want them to lose? You think I am a closet Red Sox fan?

    It is the one topic I will admit to having become somewhat upset about. Because I think a player who has contributed to several exciting wins in a WS-winning season, and who showed his determination (several infield hits – busting it down the line), deserves some respect, I am somehow not a true fan?

    Whatever.

  320. Doreen December 20th, 2009 at 9:45 pm

    pat -

    Thanks for the kind words.

  321. stuckey December 20th, 2009 at 10:22 pm

    rodg12 December 20th, 2009 at 9:07 pm

    stuckey -
    No, of course not. That’s not the crux of the argument though. What that alignment does do is weaken Granderson’s value which isn’t something you want to do.

    ______________

    But you’re still playing the defensive shellgame. Your response to my question is that is “weakens” Granderson’s “value”, but his and Cabrera’s “values” are irrelevant when we’re talking about the Yankees chances in 2010.

    The correct answer is switching Cabrera and Granderson does NOTHING to them offensively and weakens them defensively.

    The fact that there are those will still argue their respective paper “values” are affected by the switch are still missing the point.

    Scratch that. They are seeing a superficial point that is absolutely irrelevant.

  322. george December 20th, 2009 at 11:03 pm

    Sheets will be a diamond for any team that scoops him up. Andy Pettitte had the same flexor tendon in his elboe surgically repaired after having a “balkey” elbow for 2 or 3 years. Going on the DL often, has yet to land on the List since. Ben Sheets had the same surgery, finally and should be 100% Any surgeon will tell you, if you want an elbow surgery/injury, this is the kind to get. He is a perfect fit for the Yankees. Hell finally be on a team with a good bullpen, therefore he wont be overused. The pen will eventually save Sheets 2-4 victories. If he could sign a 2 year $15 million deal, think he could start 30 games /175 innings could go 13-6.

  323. george December 20th, 2009 at 11:13 pm

    Cashman-Sign Ben Sheets, you wont regret it. With his control and breaking stuff, he will be a very good 6 to 7 Inning pitcher. Yanks bullpen will save his arm so he isnt overused. Sabathia and Sheets could be reuinted afterall.

  324. EdWhitson December 22nd, 2009 at 12:10 pm

    Last year Sheets pitched 200 innings – 2004. Move on.

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