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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


A few more notes from today

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 22, 2009 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

A few smaller notes that might have slipped through the cracks today…

• Brian Cashman said once again that the Yankees, “traded for Curtis Granderson to be our center fielder.” The Yankees don’t plan on moving him to left field and starting Brett Gardner in center, but there is one scenario in which that might happen. “That scenario would be only if Brett Gardner proves he’s the best center fielder on our club,” Cashman said.

• Vazquez has now been traded five times. The Yankees were actively involved in three of those trades, and they checked on Vazquez the other times he was traded. Cashman said the Yankees talked to Arizona in 2005 and talked to the White Sox in 2008, “but we just didn’t match up.”

• Something to keep in mind about Vazquez’s contract. “He projects as maybe a Type-A free agent,” Cashman said. “So if we’re not in a position to retain him, we’ll have the ability to secure draft picks. That was an attractive side of it as well. There are a lot of different reasons, but first and foremost, his ability to solidify the back of our rotation.”

• Asked if it was reasonable to assume either Joba Chamberlain or Phil Hughes would be the setup man next season, Cashman acknowledged it’s a possibility, but also threw Dave Robertson’s name in the mix.

• Why improve the rotation at the cost of the outfield? “Trying to strengthen the rotation with quality pitching is harder to do than to find someone to play left field,” Cashman siad. “Left field is an important part of the team, but the left field market is a lot fuller than the starting pitching market.”

• Here’s the Atlanta side of the story.

Comments

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487 Responses to “A few more notes from today”

  1. MTU December 22nd, 2009 at 10:05 pm

    Chad-
    Thanks for all the great info.

    I have enjoyed it.

  2. mick December 22nd, 2009 at 10:05 pm

    Great move, Cash!

  3. The Soupman December 22nd, 2009 at 10:06 pm

    Am I the 1st comment? YAY (if yes) Anyways, Yanks got a good deal, solidifying the back end of the rotation. Overall,Brian has done a super job as the GM. Building the farm, and trading for important parts. Hope the fans realize this. Peace

  4. miggs - GTLU Reigning Champion December 22nd, 2009 at 10:08 pm

    didn’t see new thread…..

    I heard the news of this trade break on Boomer and Carton this morning.

    After a day filled with wrapping up projects at work and scrambling to finish my Christmas shopping I finally got a chance to comment on this trade.

    Wow. I mean, Cashman is like a fine wine, just getting better and better with age in relation to his time here as GM. This trade is a monster coup no matter what aspect of it you consider.

    Vasquez. People keep thinking about 2004. I look at his entire career and particularly his 2009 season and I think Vasquez could easily be our #2 starter by the all star break. Huge durability, nasty swing and miss stuff, and a man returning to NY much smarter and more experienced than his first go-around. Joining a loaded staff.

    Just a phenomenal acquisition. Reasonable salary for his results, one year remaining on his contract so not only is he playing for his next deal but your team’s flexibility going into 2011 isn’t hindered. And if he leaves you get draft picks because he’s definitely getting offered arbitration unless he blows out his arm.

    Losing Melky means virtually nothing. Yes he had big hits last year, played a decent CF. But if he was really going to get around $3 million in arbitration this year, that might be a little pricey for a guy who is made infinitely better by the hitters around him in the lineup. So they free up $3 million there.

    They lose Dunn (who cares really) and get a decent lefty in return, and a guy with more ML experience.

    Arodys is the key here. Huge upside but a long way to go. IMO worth the risk losing him. We have a ton of high upside arms and you have to give something to get arguably one of the 3 best starters in the NL last year. Yes, that’s right. Vasquez is that good. You’ll see with your own eyes come 2010.

  5. YankeeRay December 22nd, 2009 at 10:08 pm

    I’ll say it one more time tonight and then I’ll be back for more tomorrow.

    This is Hals deal now. Cash is done and no way do we go into season with Gardner in LF.
    Hal has to follow dads footsteps and demand that they sign Holliday on what should be considered the cheap.

  6. XLJ December 22nd, 2009 at 10:09 pm

    Nows it time for the yankees to go for the kill. Sign Ben Sheets as the 5th starter put both Chamberlain and Hughes in the bullpen.

  7. CR9 December 22nd, 2009 at 10:10 pm

    “What …is … a Knick?”

    It is the opposite of a Celtic.

    Knick – Cheated by referees, or have a player with a 3 for 18 performance in the biggest game of his life.

    Celtic – benefited by cheap calls from referees, clutch performances from players when needed including many field goals made from absolutely terrible shot selection.

  8. XLJ December 22nd, 2009 at 10:12 pm

    Go for the kill Cashman bring in Sheets. Lets destroy the red sox!!!

    SP- Sabathia
    SP- Burnett
    SP- Pettitte
    SP- Vazquez
    SP- Sheets

    bullpen:

    Rivera
    Chamberlain
    Hughes
    Robertson
    Marte
    Aceves
    Gaudin

  9. CB December 22nd, 2009 at 10:12 pm

    Phil the Thrill,

    I would have preferred the yankees not include Arodys, too. I would have rather traded even Banuelos.

    But it’s a very good deal – one you have to make.

    And again – Vazquez is a guy you can offer arb to and the yankees will be able to hopefully get back some prospects via the picks.

  10. Joe from Long Island December 22nd, 2009 at 10:22 pm

    Or, the Yanks have the option to sign Vazquez to another deal, if things work out.

    On another note, people are assuming that Cash is going to hit the FA market to find the LF. Why? I think this is the same mistake people made assuming that Cash was looking for a pitcher among Sheets, Duchsherer, and others, and ignoring the trade route.

    The rumors last night was that the Yanks were working on “2 or 3″ deals. Well, one obviously was this one. But, maybe another one was to fill the void created by trading Melky.

    The Yanks have a very enviable group of starting pitchers, and the word is that they’re open to trading one, possibly Gaudin or Mitre. Would a team be willing to deal a league average LF for a back end starter? Chad Gaudin to KC for DeJesus, maybe? Or something similar?

  11. CR9 December 22nd, 2009 at 10:22 pm

    Nobody responded earlier, but with the Braves looking for a run producer, wouldn’t it be awesome if the Braves landed Gonzalez with a package that included Arodys.

    Would that not make it worth it, that we got a good pitcher without giving up much off our ML roster, and helped another team take Gonzalez away from the Red Sox.

    And we could also get 2 draft picks in the end, so essentially, 2 draft picks for Melky Cabrera.

    Dreams sometimes come true.

  12. blake December 22nd, 2009 at 10:31 pm

    where is everybody

  13. Bronx Jeers December 22nd, 2009 at 10:32 pm

    MLB network has ARod as the best 3rd baseman of the last decade.

    Nice.

  14. Rafael December 22nd, 2009 at 10:36 pm

    I think it’d be a great move if we landed David DeJesus from KCR. He’s a Brooklyn native who is still in his prime and hits for average. Does well with RISP, and hit a cool .290 vs lefties this season. It’s a good bet his home-run total might increase in NYS…

  15. JoeyA December 22nd, 2009 at 10:38 pm

    Something should be said re: Cash’s 2 major trades and what truly allowed them to occur: stupid spending.

    Luckily for us, this time, it was the Yankees.

    Grandy was traded most probably because the Tigers have many bad contracts right now, and needed to reduce payroll, knowing full well nobody was taking their bad contracts.

    Same deal for the Braves, particularly with Lowe and Kawakami.

    It’s a great day to be a Yankee fan. We are the world champions and have made as many moves as the Mariners to get better, while most other teams would sit on their ring!

  16. james December 22nd, 2009 at 10:40 pm

    The way the off season is going can Juan Rivera be far behind

  17. JoeyA December 22nd, 2009 at 10:43 pm

    *wasn’t

  18. Jeff NJ December 22nd, 2009 at 10:45 pm

    I’m going to miss Melky, but I see how this was a good trade for us. I think it’s safe to say Cash has finally transformed the Yankees into a better overall organization now that the money and energy spent on the draft and internationally is paying off. Players are pushing their way up onto the big club and either contributing or being packaged for missing pieces. In years past when players such as Josh Beckett were available, the Yankees had no one to trade because the farm was so barren. Now the Yankees are in on everyone and are not afraid to make moves for younger veterans. The Red Sox already were there too. These are not good times for the Rays, Jays and Orioles who will very rarely make the playoffs for the foreseeable future. The Cashman has delivered.

  19. Phil the Thrill December 22nd, 2009 at 10:48 pm

    CB,

    You and I generally agree on everything, but the situation was this: Atlanta wanted to unload salary. What they had to offer was an old pitcher with 3 years left, that anyone could have gotten for free, and pitcher who’s alternated good and bad years, coming off his best year, but also going into his contract year.

    So, my reservation about sending along Viz, or even Manny Banuelos, was that those level of prospects should only be moved for young, under control player, or higher value targets Vaz. I like Vaz, but unless they have a problem with his back, or had to beat an Angel offer, I think they should have stayed with it longer and protected that tier of prospects.

    Gotta run out for an hour…

  20. Betsy - high on pie December 22nd, 2009 at 10:49 pm

    So obviously the Yankees have liked Vasquez all along, before even his huge year this year…….I started off not liking the deal (not about who we gave up so much as Vasquez’s performance in the AL ), started warming up to it as I read overwhelming praise for same and now I’m just awfully excited.

    I still think that Phil and Joba (particularly Phil) would be better served as a middle-reliever/long-men if they aren’t starting (although I’d actually prefer them in AAA so they could continue to start – again, especially Phil). Joba is more advanced than Phil. Phil needs to be able to work on his secondary pitches and get through lineups multiple times. I suspect that Cash’s comment about Robertson potentially being the set-up man is laying the groundwork for this to be the case. I get the feeling that Cash doesn’t want to set Joba and Phil back any further.

  21. Benny Blanco December 22nd, 2009 at 10:49 pm

    I must admit that I was skeptical of the trade at first (see 2004) but it really was a no brainer when you think about it. The yankees are getting another quality arm in the rotation that can give you 200 + innings with the ability to strike hitters out. I strongly believe that Javy will atone for his past misfortunes.

  22. Jerkface December 22nd, 2009 at 10:50 pm

    Cash said AAA was an option as I’m sure you read. I have high hope for Cash. Its obvious he loves ‘his guys’ and he loves Hughes, so I don’t think he’ll end up relieving if he loses the job. I think they are more willing to relieve Joba than Hughes.

  23. Tom December 22nd, 2009 at 10:52 pm

    Don’t think the Braves can match Buchholz, Declarmen, and Ryan Kalish. Don’t know if any team can.

  24. Pat M December 22nd, 2009 at 10:53 pm

    Now that Melky & Jackson are gone, the outfield depth is zip…They will be solving that riddle very soon…..Mr. Gardner will be Swisher’s caddy come opening day

  25. ARK December 22nd, 2009 at 10:56 pm

    I think if Hughes wins the job, then Joba goes to the pen. If Joba wins it, Hughes goes to AAA.

    Though it all depends how the pen looks coming out of ST.

  26. Boston Dave - XXVII December 22nd, 2009 at 10:56 pm

    “Don’t think the Braves can match Buchholz, Declarmen, and Ryan Kalish. Don’t know if any team can.”

    —————

    Judging by these ones, I’m guessing you often start sentences with “don’t think” and “don’t know”.

    Start thinking and start knowing soon… or else you may say something even more ridiculous than this.

  27. Betsy - high on pie December 22nd, 2009 at 10:56 pm

    Cash does’t trade prospects lightly, so I think he thought Vasquez was a must get. Obviously he wants to have just 1 kid in the rotation at a time, but next year, I expect both Joba and Phil to be in there. Cash clearly likes Vasquez a lot – maybe he’ll re-sign with the Yanks if he does well; why are we discounting that possibility?

  28. CB December 22nd, 2009 at 10:57 pm

    “So, my reservation about sending along Viz, or even Manny Banuelos, was that those level of prospects should only be moved for young, under control player, or higher value targets Vaz”

    I generally agree with that. I would have much rather done this trade with McCallister or Nova.

    But while this clearly was a trade for salary “relief” it was not a pure dump.

    I would have to think that even with Vazquez’s partial no trade there would have been a great deal of demand for him.

    So it’s hard to say what it would have taken to get the deal done. It was unusual for the team to give up a player like Vizcaino.

    But since the deal was executed, I have wondered about whether the organization feels as highly about Arodys as the reports have suggested. My sense is that might be the case because they generally have been very, very protective with the elite guys.

    The organization has done a very good job with their own internal talent evaluation. They really haven’t traded away someone they would regret in quite some time.

    I also think the draft picks they could get from Vazquez were part of why they’d give up Vizcaino.

    Hard to say.

    I do think the organization is very serious right now about not only winning in 2010 but creating a new dynasty.

  29. CR9 December 22nd, 2009 at 10:57 pm

    Anybody can match Kalish.

    DelCarmen is a reliever, who so happened to be so pathetic as to get left off the playoff roster.

    Buchholz, well, is Buchholz. He has never proven anything beyond being able to maybe retire an order once or maybe twice a game.

  30. damon enjoy 27...think 28 December 22nd, 2009 at 10:57 pm

    It’s been about 2 wks, and Cashman has changed the landscape of the starting rotation,the outfield,the lineup,and the bullpen, all this with barely a change in payroll, and a modicum of damage to the minor league system.

    With just one spot to fill to be set for next season. The Yankees may be better constructed than they were last season.
    Cashman is in rare form!!

  31. Jeff December 22nd, 2009 at 10:57 pm

    I find it hard to imagine Chamberlain and Hughes both in the bullpen. What I can see is Joba going as part of a trade . . .as a starter, he pitched few games past the fifth inning and few overpowering games. The question is whether they can trade both he AND Hughes and get a major left fielder, elevate Gaudin to fifth starter and have Robertson do Hughes’ role and have Aceves handle the 7th. One thing is pretty clear about Girardi, he can handle young pitchers in the bullpen and make it work.

  32. Betsy - high on pie December 22nd, 2009 at 10:59 pm

    Jerkface, yes, I did read that and I was very happy to hear that AAA is an option. I think it’s clear that Cash finds it important that Phil not lose another year of development by being stuck in the pen. One year was enough…

  33. MC December 22nd, 2009 at 11:00 pm

    Anyone watching this Steiner Sports thing on YES? Nice interview with AJ… caught the tail end of it. Was doing a word association thing and when Damon was mentioned, he raved about him. Said he was the guy who brought everyone together and made him and the new guys comfortable in the clubhouse and was a leader in that clubhouse.

    Man, I’m going to miss him.

  34. Betsy - high on pie December 22nd, 2009 at 11:02 pm

    CB, I missed the first part of Cash’s conversation with Kay this week (or was it last), but apparently he gushed about Nova…….

  35. Betsy - high on pie December 22nd, 2009 at 11:02 pm

    Are you kidding me? I missed AJ? What did he say?

  36. PittsburghYankeeFan December 22nd, 2009 at 11:03 pm

    A bit of advance scouting on an enemy blog. MTU, look at the quote that they attribute to Jim Bowden at the bottom of the page.

    http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.....#038;st=40

  37. Yazman December 22nd, 2009 at 11:03 pm

    Hard to believe our new #4 was an NL ace last year — top-5 in NL in most major stat categories. More Quality Starts than CC, AJ or Andy (albeit in the NL).

    Javier is the odds-on best #4 starter in MLB (would probably be a top-5 #2 starter). It’s a good day in Yankeeland!

  38. Betsy - high on pie December 22nd, 2009 at 11:04 pm

    LOL I hope YES will repeat that show……

    Damon will be missed, but we have really high -quality guys in that clubhouse and the vacuum will be filled. These players are used to teammates coming and going and, after all, the team has to think about the future….often that is at cross-purposes with the players desires/needs.

  39. Betsy - high on pie December 22nd, 2009 at 11:05 pm

    A new dynasty – I love it. We just need to fill in the gaps in the upper minors, but trading one or two of our young catchers (not Montero or Romine!) should do the trick. Of course, we’ll have to wait until these kids move up in the ranks before teams will take them seriously as worthy trade targets.

  40. Jerkface December 22nd, 2009 at 11:06 pm

    A bit of advance scouting on an enemy blog. MTU, look at the quote that they attribute to Jim Bowden at the bottom of the page.
    ==

    He didn’t say that, I got dinner around 8 and they replayed Bowden’s comments. He loved the trade, said the Yankees got much better but the most important part for him was:

    “This trade signals, THEY ARE NOT DONE! How could they be done?! They got Javier Vazquez, that solidifies the rotation, but this trade tells me there is something else out there! They traded melky, their left fielder, they need a left fielder. There is another deal waiting, and they are going to announce it before the holidays!”

    Paraphrased, but he didn’t say who, just that he thinks Cash is going to do something.

  41. Yazman December 22nd, 2009 at 11:07 pm

    I agree Cashman’s made outstanding trades, but isn’t it fair to say we’ve lost 2 of our top 4 minor league prospects?

  42. Betsy - high on pie December 22nd, 2009 at 11:07 pm

    Um, why would you trade Joba AND Phil? They are ultra-talented and the Yankees will give them every chance to succeed. I am firmly convinced the Yankees won’t trade Phil and pretty sure they won’t deal Joba (and even if they did, it would only be for a young stud).

  43. Tom December 22nd, 2009 at 11:07 pm

    CR9,

    Ok, what about Reddick, Max Ramirez, Bowden, and Ellsbury?

    There. SD gets 4 players, 2 stud outfielders, a promising catcher, and a #2 starter.

    That has to be more than enough.

  44. Jerkface December 22nd, 2009 at 11:08 pm

    Tom,

    Are you for real or are you trolling ? I can’t tell if you’re that dumb or if you’re just doing it on purpose.

  45. Sacrificefly December 22nd, 2009 at 11:09 pm

    PittsburghYankeeFan

    very interesting. That would deff make sense why no one has heard from ther sources. Then they can announce Holliday and Johnson in the same press conf.

  46. Jeremy December 22nd, 2009 at 11:10 pm

    I love how some love to talk abut Javy not being Mentally tough because of the 2004 ALCS but people were saying the same thing about Sabathia because he was not a good postseason performer before 2009 and he was part of the Indians choke job to the Red Sox in 2007 when the Indians had a 3-1 lead in the series. And look at CC now ! The guy got in down in the playoffs and shut up all the critics just like A-rod.

    I expect a better performance from Javy in pinstripes especially since he is healthy now, his mechanics are better, he is around great clubhouse guys (CC,A.J., Andy,etc.), and he is not the main guy (ace) of the staff.

  47. Coach6423 December 22nd, 2009 at 11:11 pm

    2 stud outfielders and a #2 starter, where on that list do you see that, they also dont have the rights to max rameriez.

  48. Abdababdaserser December 22nd, 2009 at 11:11 pm

    Tom, isn’t it kind of difficult for a team to trade a player they don’t have?

    The Sox don’t have Ramirez as the Lowell trade fell through.

  49. Betsy - high on pie December 22nd, 2009 at 11:11 pm

    This is odd…….the YES schedule shows the 2009 Yankeeography: Season of Pride, Tradition and Glory debuting on 12/25 at 12:00 am. Weird – they couldn’t debut it during prime time?

  50. Jeremy December 22nd, 2009 at 11:11 pm

    sorry- CC got it done in the playoffs and shut up all the critics just like A-rod.

  51. Walrus December 22nd, 2009 at 11:11 pm

    Pretty simple… if the pen looks good in the Spring, there would be no need for either kid to go there.

    If the pen looks shaky and guys like Melancon do not look ready or Robertson doesn’t look good…. they’ll put one of the kids in the pen. Would be great news if we didn’t need to go that route, but considering how inconsistent bullpens are, we may have to.

    Bottom line, we have options now. Cash can go to ST with an open mind on everything.

  52. Pat M December 22nd, 2009 at 11:12 pm

    Now they really need a leftfielder and there is still a need for a # 5 stick……Is that player still out there ????

  53. CB December 22nd, 2009 at 11:12 pm

    “I agree Cashman’s made outstanding trades, but isn’t it fair to say we’ve lost 2 of our top 4 minor league prospects?”

    Yes – but the important thing is that the organization actually has prospects that other teams value enough to want in trades.

    And it’s been a long time in getting the minors into shape in order to do so.

    And the transformation of the minor leagues was a top priority of Cashman’s when he got control of the organization.

    Prospects get traded. That’s part of the purpose of developing them.

    Also – the whole notion of a “top 10″ or “top 5″ prospects is misleading.

    The distance between how good Montero is and the second best prospect is probably bigger than the distance between the yankees number 2 prospect and their 30th best prospect.

    Right now the yankees young talent really gets down to Joba, Hughes, Montero and then everyone else.

  54. Bronx Jeers December 22nd, 2009 at 11:13 pm

    Jim Bowden?

    There’s a guy who should be cleaning toilets for a living.

  55. PittsburghYankeeFan December 22nd, 2009 at 11:13 pm

    Jerkface

    Thanks–that makes more sense.

    PS–who is Tom?

  56. Jerkface December 22nd, 2009 at 11:14 pm

    Jim Bowden was a hit or miss GM, most are, but he is a really good radio guy. Very interesting, animated, and lively. Jeff Joyce and Jim Bowden are my favorite tandem on the XM MLB.

  57. Betsy - high on pie December 22nd, 2009 at 11:14 pm

    Jerkface, I hope you’re right……it sounds like he’s looking forward to the challenge.

  58. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 22nd, 2009 at 11:14 pm

    could Jim Bowden have any connections with Boras? Or is he just talking out his *** ?

  59. PittsburghYankeeFan December 22nd, 2009 at 11:15 pm

    Pat M

    That player is not only out there, he’s staring them in the face and his dad is a Yankee fan. The issue is one of value. He and his agent have one AAV, the Yankees have theirs.

    Since the old man is home resting in Tampa, his son and the team consigliere are driving a hard bargain.

  60. MTU December 22nd, 2009 at 11:15 pm

    Thanks for the info. guys.

    appreciate you tryin to fight the good fight along with me.

    I’m tired and gonna turn in soon.

    This is gonna be decided soon.

    One way or another.

    I hope we get Holliday.

    If not its ALL GOOD.

    I’ll check in again manana.

    Good evening.

  61. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 22nd, 2009 at 11:16 pm

    I actually liked Bowden when he was a GM. He was like the only GM who would trade with Cashman, without having to rob him blind

  62. CB December 22nd, 2009 at 11:16 pm

    Jim Bowden did say a day or two ago via twitter that the yankees were still in on Holliday. That was of course prior to vazquez.

  63. Mark December 22nd, 2009 at 11:17 pm

    Bowden probably has some good sources… he was a GM after all… albeit, a crappy one.

    Though that quote sounds more like speculation than having solid info

  64. CR9 December 22nd, 2009 at 11:17 pm

    Tom
    December 22nd, 2009 at 11:07 pm
    CR9,

    Ok, what about Reddick, Max Ramirez, Bowden, and Ellsbury?

    There. SD gets 4 players, 2 stud outfielders, a promising catcher, and a #2 starter.

    That has to be more than enough.

    ___

    Reddick and Bowden are bums. Max Ramirez is not even on them, and if the Padres want Max so bad, why dont they go straight to the Padres to get him? Ellsbury is the only thing of value there, and him coupled with Buchholz and any of their low level ESPN propped prospects is not enough to get the Mexican American Gonzalez away from his hometown and Mexican community, especially at his affordable price.

    Bronx Jeers – Josh Reddick belongs right next to Jim Bowden scrubbing toilets! They both have the same amount of baseball skill.

  65. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 22nd, 2009 at 11:18 pm

    “his son and the team consigliere are”
    —————————————-

    everytime i see the word ‘consigliere’ i think of Billy Crystal slapping a man across his face.

  66. Betsy - high on pie December 22nd, 2009 at 11:19 pm

    Remember that Jackson wasn’t thought of that highly by a lot of scouts……..and the Yankees can always restock their farm system. I really trust Cash when it comes to the kids.

  67. Bronx Jeers December 22nd, 2009 at 11:19 pm

    And Javy’s the #4 starter. Think of all the scrub #4′s out there.

    The guy was arguably the 4th best pitcher in the NL last year.

    If he’s healthy and just relaxes? He should win 15 games no problem.

  68. CR9 December 22nd, 2009 at 11:19 pm

    **go straight to the Rangers to get him**

    **Bowden belongs right next to..**

  69. Betsy - high on pie December 22nd, 2009 at 11:20 pm

    CB, but Romine and the others on BA’s list (for example) are actually considered very good prospects. I don’t think they are throw aways by any stretch. I think I know what you’re getting at, though……

  70. Betsy - high on pie December 22nd, 2009 at 11:22 pm

    I’ll bet Bowden knows nothing more than we do……..everyone always thinks the Yankees are in on everyone. I do not believe the Yankees are in on Holliday – I never have. I’m still totally puzzled as to LF. Damon is highly unlikely and I don’t think Cash is going to deplete his farm system further by making another trade.

    * I really hope they sign Chapman

  71. RA December 22nd, 2009 at 11:24 pm

    I’d be very wary about giving a long term deal to Vasquez, even if he has a good year. Not to mention he is older by 2-3 years than the other top guys on the market.

  72. Abdababdaserser December 22nd, 2009 at 11:25 pm

    I wouldn’t be shocked either way regarding Holliday and the Yankees.

    I do think he would make a great addition to an already nicely put together team. The position he would fill, the slot in the lineup he could hit in, it almost is like it was made with him in mind.

    On the other side of the money bag, it would be a longer term contract that isn’t cheap, even though it would look like a bargain. Along with looking to the future obligations that the Yankees have coming up it could make things a little tighter.

  73. Bob Z. December 22nd, 2009 at 11:25 pm

    While we’re bringing back former Yankees, bring back Kevin Thompson. Gardner & KT can lefty/righty platoon and we would get decent offense from the #9 spot, plus defense and 50-60 stolen bases for near minumum salary*2.

  74. Bronx Jeers December 22nd, 2009 at 11:26 pm

    CR9,

    I think we’re talking about different Bowdens.

    Michael Bowden is the Sox pitcher. The Yanks spanked him after Tito sacrificed himin a drubbing.

    Jim Bowden was the disgraced former Nats GM that allegedly stole bonus money. And I think he likened the MLB players union to Al Quaeda.

    No matter. They can both scrub toilets.

  75. Jerkface December 22nd, 2009 at 11:27 pm

    While it’d be fun if all our trades worked out massively in our favor, there is a great chance Vizcaino / Kennedy / Jackson end up being solid major leaguers. I’d be fine with that too. I want people to want to trade with Cashmoney. Can’t rip em every time.

  76. Pat M December 22nd, 2009 at 11:28 pm

    Hank and the extra dough he threw at Alex pops up every once and awhile…..

  77. Betsy - high on pie December 22nd, 2009 at 11:28 pm

    http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....t-MLB-buzz

    Yanks, Braves chasing same free agents — updated 12:47 p.m.

    The Yankees and Braves, after completing the five-player Javier Vazquez trade, likely will compete for the same free agents as they try to fill their remaining holes.

    The party line from both clubs is that Matt Holliday and Jason Bay, the two best hitters on the market, are too expensive.

    But both teams are interested in Mark DeRosa, who plays infield and outfield. Marlon Byrd, who plays all three outfield position, also makes sense for both.

    The Braves’ preference is a right-handed hitter such as DeRosa or Byrd, and they still need to address first base as well as left field.

    Right fielder Jason Heyward, one of the top prospects in the majors, figures to be in the majors this season, perhaps as soon as Opening Day.

    The Braves could go with an outfield of Heyward, Nate McLouth and Melky Cabrera. DeRosa could serve as a super-utility man, along with Omar Infante.

    Xavier Nady, coming off his second Tommy John surgery, is a hitter in whom the Braves long have had interest. He has played 82 career games at first base. Re-signing Adam LaRoche, a left-handed hitter, is another possibility.

    The Yankees could make DeRosa their starting left fielder, but also use him as their primary backup for third baseman Alex Rodriguez and as a reserve at first and second.

    Byrd, too, could play left — and like DeRosa, would be less expensive than Johnny Damon, who is another potential target for the Braves. However, the Cubs also are targeting Byrd, and they would play him in center. — Ken Rosenthal

  78. CR9 December 22nd, 2009 at 11:30 pm

    “No matter. They can both scrub toilets”

    LOL That was my point. That’s all the 2 Bowdens are good for.

    I do often confuse Michael Bowden with the baggers at Publix. But the baggers might be better pitchers than Bowden.

  79. Jeremy December 22nd, 2009 at 11:32 pm

    Also I heard that ESPN was talking about Javy Vasquez numbers against the Red Sox. But if I recall CC didn’t have the best numbers against the Sox but he owned the Red Sox this season.

    David Ortiz is washed up, and their lineup is really old. The only guy I would worry about in the Red Sox lineup is V-Mart, Youkilis, and Pedroia in a big situation. Other than that the rest of them are bums.

  80. bru December 22nd, 2009 at 11:32 pm

    Jeff
    December 22nd, 2009 at 10:57 pm
    I find it hard to imagine Chamberlain and Hughes both in the bullpen. What I can see is Joba going as part of a trade . . .as a starter, he pitched few games past the fifth inning and few overpowering games. The question is whether they can trade both he AND Hughes and get a major left fielder, elevate Gaudin to fifth starter and have Robertson do Hughes’ role and have Aceves handle the 7th. One thing is pretty clear about Girardi, he can handle young pitchers in the bullpen and make it work.

    ———————————————————-

    trading joba & hughes for a lf will never happen & be a huge mistake

    we can just sign holliday or wait

    i would of loved to sign holliday & package joba,montero,melky for a frontline starter like jj

    if we can substitute montero great

    holliday(17 million) & jj(5 million) will cost about 22 million give or take minus joba(1 million) & melky(3 million) & your at about 18 million in added payroll

    now we have an unbeatable team

    rotation

    cc
    jj
    burnett
    pettitte
    hughes

    lineup

    jeter
    johnson
    tex
    arod
    holliday
    posada
    swisher
    cano
    granderson

  81. Rick December 22nd, 2009 at 11:32 pm

    I wonder what would have happened with A-Rod if Hank didn’t control that negotiation.

    Would Cash have gone back on his word and signed A-Rod after he opted out even though he was adamant that he wouldn’t?

    Where would A-Rod have gone then? And what would he have signed for? Probably 1\2 of what he got… $150 million or so.

  82. Abdababdaserser December 22nd, 2009 at 11:33 pm

    Jerkface, the biggest thing with trading some of the minor leaguers is even if they pan out, they aren’t helping the big club now. The moves that were made were all for building the machine for this season.

    Prospects are fine, but there is only so much room for them. If they work out that well, so much the better because it means the scouting worked well.

  83. Jerkface December 22nd, 2009 at 11:37 pm

    Don’t gotta tell me. I am fully down with the plan. Cashman said he wanted to build the farm up to graduate guys to the big leagues to help the club, but also to trade for guys that they thought would help them accomplish winning a championship.

    I agree with you fully.

  84. Abdababdaserser December 22nd, 2009 at 11:37 pm

    Rick, Alex might not have gotten the deal he ended up with, but it would have been higher than 150. The Angels were supposedly at 240 for him.

    Think of the lineup without him in it. Even if they had everyone else, it would be hard to figure a batter who would put up anything close to that production. Including the aid his bat in the lineup brings to the batters hitting around him.

  85. Jeremy December 22nd, 2009 at 11:38 pm

    Also J.D. Drew or Nancy Drew as they call him in Boston is always in the hospital with his buddy grandpa Wakefield. Lowell is back and his skills are going down while the injuries are going up. Mike Cameron ? LOL ! Jacoby Ellsbury ? LOL ! Varitek ? LOL !

    Yeah I don’t see Javy having a lot of trouble with that lineup. It’s not like the 2003-2007 Sox lineup.

  86. Bronx Jeers December 22nd, 2009 at 11:38 pm

    “Hank and the extra dough he threw at Alex pops up every once and awhile…..”

    Ha! Tell me about it.

    Ya know over the last couple of weeks I’ve added up the Yanks payroll a few times.

    Let me tell you it doesn’t take many “+” signs to hit 100 mil.

    And it only takes 1 “+” to get to 50. That’s Arod and CC.

    And we’re only using ARods average salary.

    Next season? He’ll be cashing in the 1st 6mil performance bonus as he should pass Willie Mays. 661* .

    He’ll earn 37 mil from the Yanks in 2011.

  87. DaSaint007 December 22nd, 2009 at 11:39 pm

    12/8 Yankees trade for Curtis Granderson – OF; News conference 12/17.
    12/9 Yanks resign Andy Pettitte SP.
    12/10 Yankees acquire Jamie Hoffman – OF
    12/18 Yankees come to terms with FA Nick Johnson.
    12/22 Yankees acquire Javier Vazquez – SP, and hold telephone conference same day.

    What’s taking so long with the Nick Johnson signing?

  88. Tank December 22nd, 2009 at 11:41 pm

    Jeremy,

    Did ESPN also mention that Vasquez….

    has a 4.26 career ERA vs. Boston (damn good considering their lineup in the past)?
    has struck out 73 in 66 IP vs. Boston?
    Has a 4.23 career ERA in Fenway, including 2 complete games?

  89. Betsy - high on pie December 22nd, 2009 at 11:45 pm

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12.....f=baseball

  90. DaSaint007 December 22nd, 2009 at 11:45 pm

    The ‘trade’ between boston and Texas also took a long time, then it was nixed due to Lowell’s thumb injury which was discovered during physicals.

    Hope that’s not the case here. My theory earlier was that maybe they signed him, then decided to sign Damon and trade Johnson, for which they would need his permission.

    Delays like this will make me come up with creative scenarios…

  91. Pat M December 22nd, 2009 at 11:48 pm

    Jeers, Hell the Yankee infield alone is almost 100 mil ( Posada could be included as part of the infield )

  92. Betsy - high on pie December 22nd, 2009 at 11:50 pm

    http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/1…-implications/

    Now they have Javier Vazquez to go behind C.C. Sabathia, A.J. Burnett and Andy Pettitte. Yes, his numbers improved greatly in the National League last season. But Vazquez was decent for three years with the Chicago White Sox, working 200 innings each season, with 200 strikeouts twice and an overall 4.40 earned run average. For a fourth starter, that’s just fine.
    Scouts believe Vazquez’s changeup improved a lot with Atlanta last season, giving him a second swing-and-miss pitch to go with his curveball. When he wants to throw 94 miles an hour, he can, but his fastball is generally around 91. And he competes.
    On his conference call with reporters, Vazquez acknowledged – for the first time, I think – that his problems for the Yankees in the second half of 2004 were related to shoulder fatigue. I had always been told that the Yankees suspected shoulder problems but ultimately concluded it was poor mechanics.

    ************
    I still doubt we go into the season with Gardner as our LF (I’m doubtful and hopeful)

  93. Bronx Jeers December 22nd, 2009 at 11:50 pm

    And what I really love about Arods contract is when he catches Bonds.

    That’s 6 mil for his 762nd HR and then 6 mil for his 763rd HR.

    2 swings/ 12 million dollars.

    What was it Yakov Smirnoff used to say? “What a country!”

  94. Mark December 22nd, 2009 at 11:50 pm

    Vasquez career numbers vs. Boston

    J. Bay – 2-12 (.167), 1 RBI, 5 Ks
    M. Cameron – 1-7 (.143), 0 RBI, 1 K
    J. Drew – 10-28 (.358), 4 HRs, 5 RBIs, 8 Ks
    J. Ellsbury – 0-6 (.000), 1 K
    M. Lowell – 13-47 (.277), 2 HRs, 6 RBIs, 10 Ks
    V. Martinez – 5-26 (.192), 4 RBIs, 4 Ks
    D. Ortiz – 8-25 (.320), 2 HRs, 5 RBIs, 9 Ks
    D. Pedroia – 8-14 (.571), 3 RBIs, 2 Ks
    J. Varitek – 2-19 (.105), 9 Ks
    K. Youkallis – 3-17 (.176), 1 RBI, 9 Ks

    Just for kicks… Gonzalez is 0-3 against him, Beltre destroys him.

  95. 'My heart beats when they win, and it stops beating when they lose.' December 22nd, 2009 at 11:51 pm

    If Javier shows any kind of brilliance in 2010, as he had shown throughout the 2009 season, this will be considered a great trade. Unless Javier crumbles under the NY spotlight, than it’s really hard to see this trade no benefiting us. If he’s good enough, who knows, we might see him in pinstripes in 2011.

  96. Tank December 22nd, 2009 at 11:51 pm

    Vazquez said that one of his disappointments from 2004 was not being able to pitch with Pettitte, and that he was excited to finally be teammates with the veteran lefty.

    “Obviously, the Yankees have a great team,” Vazquez said. “Everybody knows that, they won a World Series. They have a great pitching staff already with Sabathia, Burnett and Pettitte. It’s going to be fun to be part of that staff.”

    http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....8;c_id=nyy

  97. DaSaint007 December 22nd, 2009 at 11:52 pm

    Thanks Betsy.

  98. Jeremy December 22nd, 2009 at 11:53 pm

    Tank
    I know ! Those aren’t bad numbers at all. The Boston media ESPN loves to talk about 2004 the only great moment for “Red Sox Nation”. Where were they before 2004 ? Choking for 86 years.

    Javy will be fine he has experienced New York, he is not the go to guy and he has better characters in the clubhouse to support him like CC,Andy, and A.J. Javy will do fine against that weak Red Sox lineup.

  99. 'My heart beats when they win, and it stops beating when they lose.' December 22nd, 2009 at 11:53 pm

    Bronx Jeers,

    ARod will make $12 million, as the Yankes organization will make $100 million off of those two pitches.

  100. DaSaint007 December 22nd, 2009 at 11:54 pm

    I find it interesting that on prior threads, there appears to be more of a willingness to have Gardner get a shot at being the starting LF. Folks are considering options, but they’re saying he could start regardless.

    Very different from the anti-Melky LF cries of the last several days.

  101. rodg12 December 22nd, 2009 at 11:56 pm

    Betsy -

    Thanks for the links. Looks like from that first one that NJ has passed his physical and his signing should be announced tomorrow.

  102. Betsy - high on pie December 22nd, 2009 at 11:58 pm

    Wow, the posters at Pinstripes Plus are HATING on the trade……One guy even said that the Sox fans are drooling over this deal because of 2004………

    Is JV’s tendency to give up HRs going to be a problem at YS?

    Mark Feinsand commented that the comments on his blog were definitely anti-trade (both for trading Melky – which is nuts- and getting Vasquez again). I fear that JV is in for terrible treatment from the fans as they clearly haven’t forgiven him.

  103. Al December 22nd, 2009 at 11:58 pm

    listening to Harold Reynolds evaluate the trade… he starts off by saying what the Yankees get out of it (the usual… NY experience, innings, workhorse, etc.)

    Then he talks about what the Braves get out of this deal and he says “Atlanta gets a guy in Melky who never complained when he started the season on the bench”

    LOL…. pretty rough

  104. UpState December 22nd, 2009 at 11:58 pm

    Betsy – high on pie
    December 22nd, 2009 at 8:58 pm
    Doesn’t make a bit of difference what Holliday’s father wants. It matters what Matt wants and frankly, the Yankees are not going to get involved in him anyway, so it’s moot.
    =========================================
    As a Dad, I’m a little upset at the first line.
    Well, if people do have a good relationship with their Fathers – then it most certainly makes a hell-of-a-difference on what Matt’s Dad’s opinion is !!!
    Actually – your opinion means so much less than his Father’s.(or my opinion)
    Regardless if you want Holliday as a Yankee or not; ridiculing his family should be out-of-bounds.
    I sincerly hope you didn’t mean what you wrote.
    Have a nice evening.

  105. Betsy - high on pie December 23rd, 2009 at 12:01 am

    You’re welcome, Saint and Rodg!

  106. CR9 December 23rd, 2009 at 12:02 am

    Why would Yankees fans not forgive him?

    If he had an injury, which he did, then he pitched through it. cough cough Carl Pavano

    He was obviously an idiot for not telling the staff about his injury, but such is life.

    Also, he had a mechanical flaw and his delivery has been altered.

    If anybody deserves blame for screwing us, it’s Poo Poo Pavano, Randy Johnson, and for 2004, Kevin Brown.

  107. Betsy - high on pie December 23rd, 2009 at 12:03 am

    Um, give me a break Upstate -I wasn’t ridiculing his family. I’m not getting into this – think what you want about me.

    Da Saint, I’m definitely not one of those, lol. I don’t like Gardner at all.

  108. Jerkface December 23rd, 2009 at 12:04 am

    Then he talks about what the Braves get out of this deal and he says “Atlanta gets a guy in Melky who never complained when he started the season on the bench”

    LOL…. pretty rough

    Melky was unable to complain because he didn’t speak english :)

  109. Rich in NJ December 23rd, 2009 at 12:05 am

    Gardner is probably the best defensive CF on the team, but not the best CF offense/defense.

    The subtext of this trade is how opposed Cash was to trading Vazquez in the first place.

  110. Jerkface December 23rd, 2009 at 12:05 am

    I’m with Betsy on that exchange with Upstate. Lotta people on this blog love to look into things and see more than is there. Then get in a tizzy over it.

    That lot would be the first against the wall for me.

  111. Betsy - high on pie December 23rd, 2009 at 12:05 am

    Jeremy, I’m sure he will be fine, but I think you can get an idea of how the fans feel by reactions on these blogs. JV is disliked in this town because of what happened in 2004 – after how Yankee fans have treated their own players, I expect him to get the worst treatment. I like Melky, too, but these fans are really out of their minds if they are upset that he’s gone.

  112. Banks December 23rd, 2009 at 12:05 am

    It all depends how people evaluate the trade.

    The guy eats innings and will have a mid 4′s ERA. Basically, a worse version of AJ Burnett (who most fans get annoyed with easily), with more HRs but less walks. A guy who is not consistent and can look great one game when his stuff is working, but can get shelled in others. He is a very frustrating pitcher to watch because he should be so much more consistent than he is.

    Basically… everyone was ticked off at Andy in 2008 when he had a 4.54 ERA, but ate innings. That is what you will probably get from Javy.

    If you accept him for what he is… a #4 starter, there should be no problems. If people think we are getting the guy from Atlanta, they are in for a rude awakening. Expecting him to do anything more than provide league average production and eat innings is setting yourself up for disappointment.

    It was a steal of a trade, when you consider what we brought him here for.

  113. UpState December 23rd, 2009 at 12:06 am

    Betsy – high on pie
    December 23rd, 2009 at 12:03 am
    Um, give me a break Upstate -I wasn’t ridiculing his family. I’m not getting into this – think what you want about me.
    ==========================
    I was giving you the courtesy of an “out”.
    The response could have been snarky or gracious.
    Your choice.

  114. Yank1 December 23rd, 2009 at 12:06 am

    Yankee fans are the same guys who booed LaTroy Hawkins because of his number.

    I would sadly expect him to get a rough treatment here because of 2004. He just has to accept it and do his best to win them back.

  115. Betsy - high on pie December 23rd, 2009 at 12:07 am

    Rich, true about Cash/Vazquez.

    I just can’t agree about Gardner. He can’t hit and he’s got zero instincts. He’s not a starter – IMO, he’s more like a 5th OF than a 4th.

  116. bru December 23rd, 2009 at 12:07 am

    this trade just seems unnecessary

    why not just sign holliday & trade for a frontline starter

    cash said there will be no more big peaces added

    why pay vasquez 10-12 milliion to be a 4th starter?

    it is simple

    if he pitches well the trade is good

    it looks like cash is trade happy

  117. Jerkface December 23rd, 2009 at 12:08 am

    F fathers if they think they can control where their son’s play baseball.

  118. Jerkface December 23rd, 2009 at 12:09 am

    why not just sign holliday & trade for a frontline starter

    Vazquez is a front line starter. Walks no one, strikes out everyone, gives up few hits. His only problem is HRs.

  119. vey December 23rd, 2009 at 12:09 am

    Marlon Byrd will be 33 n August
    Jason Heyward will be 21 in August
    Mark DeRosa will be 35 in February

  120. Rick December 23rd, 2009 at 12:09 am

    He is going to have to learn how to pitch in NYS… he may, or he may not.

    It certainly is not spacious Turner Field. The NL East also has all pitchers parks except Citizens Bank. AL East has 3 hitters parks (NYS, Fenway, Camden). Just has to make sure he gives up solo shots.

  121. Jeremy December 23rd, 2009 at 12:10 am

    Betsy
    Yankee fans need to get over 2004. It happened ! all teams throughout their history have at least a few choke jobs. If they want to blame someone for Game 7 in the ALCS they should look at Kevin Brown and Joe Torre for putting him in there to pitch in the first place.

  122. Jerkface December 23rd, 2009 at 12:10 am

    The guy eats innings and will have a mid 4’s ERA. Basically, a worse version of AJ Burnett (who most fans get annoyed with easily), with more HRs but less walks. A guy who is not consistent and can look great one game when his stuff is working, but can get shelled in others. He is a very frustrating pitcher to watch because he should be so much more consistent than he is.

    Vazquez walks considerably less than AJ Burnett, and gives up the same amount of HRs in his career as Burnett did last season.

    He’ll be fine. I wager his ERA will be between 3.75 and 4.25 next season. We don’t know how the league is going to hit/pitch so that might be league average, or better than league average.

  123. ArodMVP217 December 23rd, 2009 at 12:10 am

    I’m sure Matt’s dad is happy his son is in the majors either way

  124. Betsy - high on pie December 23rd, 2009 at 12:10 am

    I don’t need an “out”, Upstate….and I don’t need to apologize to you because you are hyper-sensitive.

  125. bru December 23rd, 2009 at 12:11 am

    it just feels like our offense & pitching staff could of been lights out with signing holliday & trading for a frontline starter even if we have to wait til the asb for that pitcher

  126. MTU December 23rd, 2009 at 12:11 am

    I’ll leave you all with this one last thing to chew on tonite.

    It’s a quote.

    It’s from someone who knows Matt’s frame of Mind, if you will.

    Maybe speaks to his “mindset” as his decision day approaches on choosing a team for 2010 and beyond.

    “In MH’s eyes 5/82 is a big difference than what Boras projected. One might view that as a discount.

    If MH is going to sign for a *discount, he’ll do everything in his power for it to be the team that is his first choice.”

    Interpret it the way you like.

    I have my own interpretation
    of his “first choice”.

    Opinions may vary.

    But something to ponder nevertheless.

    good nite.

  127. Betsy - high on pie December 23rd, 2009 at 12:11 am

    Jerkface, everyone else seems to get that. I won’t even go into it further because I refuse to give this dude an explanation. I don’t owe it to him.

  128. Jeremy December 23rd, 2009 at 12:13 am

    Also why is everyone talking about giving up a lot homeruns ?

    Schilling gave up a lot of homeruns throughout his career but many were solo homeruns. If Javy doesn’t walk a lot of people and he usually doesn’t than most of those homeruns are solo homeruns.

    In 2001 Schilling was a leader in giving up homeruns in the NL West.

  129. E-gawa December 23rd, 2009 at 12:13 am

    Betsy – high on pie
    December 22nd, 2009 at 11:58 pm
    Wow, the posters at Pinstripes Plus are HATING on the trade……One guy even said that the Sox fans are drooling over this deal because of 2004………
    ———————-

    Yes because game 4, 5, 6, and 7 were all the fault of Javier Vazquez. Those are some smart bloggers at pinstripes plus.

  130. Rich in NJ December 23rd, 2009 at 12:13 am

    “Why would Yankees fans not forgive him?”

    Because some people aren’t rational.

  131. UpState December 23rd, 2009 at 12:14 am

    Betsy – high on pie
    December 23rd, 2009 at 12:10 am
    I don’t need an “out”, Upstate….and I don’t need to apologize to you because you are hyper-sensitive.
    ————————-
    So your respose was snarky.
    No apology needed (obviously – not expected)
    Hope your Dad doesnt read blogs.

  132. Betsy - high on pie December 23rd, 2009 at 12:14 am

    Jeremy, of course they do. I got over 2004 a long time ago -way before this year. One poster on NYYFans said he hates the trade and he will never forgive Vasquez. First of all, it’s freaking baseball – to hold onto hate like that is just ridiculous. I don’t hold Yankee fans in the highest estimation – I predict JV will get booed on Opening Day.

  133. Jerkface December 23rd, 2009 at 12:15 am

    Pinstripes Plus? Isn’t that a scouting website? Of course they hate the trade. We just traded Arodys Vizcaino, who I am sure they said was the next Pedro Martinez.

  134. Betsy - high on pie December 23rd, 2009 at 12:15 am

    LOL I think my father would understand exactly what I meant…..

  135. Ez Rep December 23rd, 2009 at 12:15 am

    Jerkface,

    Bingo. I wouldn’t be surprised if he has a better year than Burnett.

    Burnett gave up 25 HRs last year… right around the ballpark that Vasquez is in annually. Except Vasquez walks about 1\2 the number of guys that Burnett does and both have about the same hits/per 9.

  136. Jerkface December 23rd, 2009 at 12:15 am

    Quote my dad: “F Holliday’s father unless he tells his son to give us a damn discount!”

  137. Betsy - high on pie December 23rd, 2009 at 12:16 am

    Jerkface, yep – but these comments were from before it was known that Vizcaino was in the trade. It fits with what Feinsand was saying about reaction in his blog……

  138. Jeremy December 23rd, 2009 at 12:17 am

    bru
    Who are you going to get besides Javy without giving up a lot of prospects ?

    This was a good deal. Cashman gets a good 4th starter and colects the draft picks when he hits Free Agency.

    You really are not going to find a better deal than this.

  139. Jerkface December 23rd, 2009 at 12:17 am

    Gotta have a short memory in baseball. I’m sure many were disgusted with Damon becoming a yankee, then viola he has ‘the dash’ and wins a WS and now everyone wants him back.

    We’ll see how many people boo him when he is our 2nd best pitcher next year.

  140. Betsy - high on pie December 23rd, 2009 at 12:18 am

    http://www.newsday.com/columni.....-1.1667894

    Mel and Cooper are a lot classier than Torre and Guillen…..

  141. bru December 23rd, 2009 at 12:18 am

    Jerkface
    December 23rd, 2009 at 12:09 am
    why not just sign holliday & trade for a frontline starter

    Vazquez is a front line starter. Walks no one, strikes out everyone, gives up few hits. His only problem is HRs.

    ———————————————————–

    when he has an era of 3.50 in the al i will believe it not a 4.91 era with us the last time we had him

    maybe he is lights out.we will see

    i would rather have holliday then trade for a starter at the break

    even if we get derosa,damon,dejesus. who is our backup o.f.

    please do not say the rule v we just got

  142. Jerkface December 23rd, 2009 at 12:19 am

    even if we get derosa,damon,dejesus. who is our backup o.f.

    if we got any of them Garder would be the 4th OFer, and he is certainly capable.

  143. H-Town December 23rd, 2009 at 12:19 am

    Vasquez’s FIP was about a run .5 to 1 run lower in each of his Chi Sox year’s than his actual ERA. Seems like he was a victim of bad defense.

  144. Jerkface December 23rd, 2009 at 12:20 am

    when he has an era of 3.50 in the al i will believe it not a 4.91 era with us the last time we had him

    You are aware that he has other seasons in the AL? Including more recent than 5 years ago.

    I just can’t see how people can hate on a guy with great control and strike out stuff.

  145. Hugh Stacks December 23rd, 2009 at 12:20 am

    People get so caught up in their own opinions that they are blinded to any other possibilities. Gardner has more value coming off the bench (pinch runner, defensive replacement) than he does starting. The Yankees will probably not stay pat with him starting in left based on past situations: Crosby, Bubba, CF 2006; Swisher, Nick, 1B 2009. And in both of those cases they went out and spent more than they had “budgeted” and against what they were saying publicly. Holliday and to a lesser extent Damon, are certainly not out of the realm of possibility. Whatever the outcome, the roster for 2010 compared to where this team was in 2007 or 2008 is remarkable. Cashman is the most under appreciated figure in the organization by the fanbase; this team is in great hands.

  146. Betsy - high on pie December 23rd, 2009 at 12:20 am

    oops, I forgot that some don’t subscribe to Newsday. Here’s the article:

    The news didn’t reach the suburban Seattle home until about 2:30 Pacific time, some five hours after it became public. Yet when Mel Stottlemyre heard that the Yankees had brought back Javier Vazquez, the old Yankees ace felt happy for his former charge.

    “There shouldn’t be any lingering effects from his returning to New York,” Stottlemyre, Vazquez’s pitching coach for the 2004 Yankees, told Newsday in a telephone interview. “In fact, I bet he’s glad to be coming back, to show people what he’s all about.”

    Yes, the Yankees threw us a slight curveball Tuesday. Forever, they’ve been reacquiring old pals from glorious times; even new designated hitter Nick Johnson played for the 2003 pennant winners.

    But giving another shot to Vazquez? The man who surrendered one of the most painful home runs in team history, then went to Arizona for Randy Johnson?

    Yes. Of course. Because these new Yankees routinely blow off karma in favor of cold, hard reality. And the cold, hard reality, in that case, is that the Yankees did well to get themselves one of baseball’s most reliable, durable starting pitchers. “Anybody that can make 33, 34, 35 starts, go out and give you 200 innings and 200 strikeouts, there is real value to that,” White Sox pitching coach Don Cooper told Newsday, also on the phone.

    If Vazquez serves as a face of the forgettable 2004 Yankees, then he represents them poorly. He didn’t arrive via a George Steinbrenner whim (Kenny Lofton), or because the Yankees were the only team willing to take on his salary (Kevin Brown), or as part of a Minaya-esque strategy to shore up a weakness by overstocking (Tom Gordon and Paul Quantrill).

    Yet history will remember Vazquez as the young man, fresh out of low-wattage Montreal, who couldn’t handle the pressure of the Bronx. And who, yes, relieved Brown in the second inning of ALCS Game 7 and served up a first-pitch grand slam to Boston’s Johnny Damon, sealing The Collapse.

    Fast-forward four years, travel one time zone west, and you saw White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen questioning Vazquez’s toughness, saying, “He hasn’t been [a big-game pitcher], that’s the bottom line. What you see is what you get.”

    Vazquez, always calm and polite, found himself going over the 2004 season repeatedly on a conference call. Yes, his arm hurt some, he conceded, and that contributed to his poor second half. As for Guillen’s words, after saying, “I’m not part of the White Sox anymore,” Vazquez added, “I’ll hopefully be part of another postseason. I’m glad I’m getting the opportunity [with the Yankees] again.”

    He posted a 6.92 ERA in the second half of ’04, and followed it up with that awful October, prompting Joe Torre to describe the downfall as “ridiculous” in “The Yankee Years.” Stottlemyre Tuesday said: “I think it really hurt him that he wasn’t able to put together the second half that he would’ve liked to. His confidence did go downhill.”

    While professing respect for his boss Guillen, Cooper said, “If you pitch for [13] years, there’s got to be some big games along the line. Or good matchups against some big teams.”

    There will plenty more now for Vazquez. “Hopefully, I can erase those memories,” he said.

    We’ll watch this sequel with extra anticipation.

  147. raymagnetic December 23rd, 2009 at 12:21 am

    “Melky was unable to complain because he didn’t speak english”

    Or he may have just been too lazy to complain.

  148. Jeremy December 23rd, 2009 at 12:21 am

    Betsy
    I afraid of that. Sometimes I am so proud to be a Yankee fan because I love this team, but many times I can’t stand a good number of Yankee fans and I understand why fans of other team can’t stand them as well. Many of them are spoiled, they lack knowledge of the game, and all they want is a team full of all stars. Some of them are just as bad as the bandwagon Red Sox fans after 2004.

  149. Betsy - high on pie December 23rd, 2009 at 12:22 am

    Hugh Stacks, good post – I agree.

  150. E-gawa December 23rd, 2009 at 12:22 am

    Do they hate Mariano for his role in that 2004 series?

    Give me a break. I don’t know how you can hate the deal unless you either expect every pitcher to be an Ace OR you want to watch minor leaguers “develop” before your eyes.

    It’s a good deal, he’s a good pitcher for what they were looking for. Match him up against other #4 starters and he’ll be the the better almost every time.

  151. Jerkface December 23rd, 2009 at 12:23 am

    Vasquez’s FIP was about a run .5 to 1 run lower in each of his Chi Sox year’s than his actual ERA. Seems like he was a victim of bad defense.

    Flyball pitcher, and the white sox haven’t had a good outfield since probably their WS year. They were 3rd worst in the MAJORS last year, then below average the year before, and 2nd to last (ahead of the yankees who were last!) 3 years ago.

    Coincidentally, when they were just ‘below average’ Javy had his best year. Coincidence? I think not.

    And our OF defense is going to be sick next year :)

  152. stuckey December 23rd, 2009 at 12:23 am

    bru, define “frontline starter”

    Not by proper name, but description. How does one qualify for the label?

  153. Daveinmd December 23rd, 2009 at 12:25 am

    So glad Torre is gone. What a passive aggressive jerk.

  154. Jerkface December 23rd, 2009 at 12:25 am

    Not by proper name, but description. How does one qualify for the label?

    I’ve looked over the criteria, nope, no Javier Vazquez listed under ‘qualifications’. Sorry, Javy.

  155. Betsy - high on pie December 23rd, 2009 at 12:25 am

    Jeremy, I think that’s true….it’s sad. I don’t give them the benefit of the doubt because they actually once booed Alex at ST…….Spring Training, LOL. Clueless……and they’re not real fans. Real fans understand the game and understand these guys are human.

  156. RC 16 December 23rd, 2009 at 12:27 am

    With the infield we have and Gardner/Granderson tracking down balls in the outfield…. our defense is going to be sick and Vasquez’ numbers will look better as a result.

    Swisher doesn’t have much work to do… just try and catch the pop fly HRs if he can LOL

  157. Phil the Thrill December 23rd, 2009 at 12:29 am

    CB,

    FYI, there is some pain over at Yankee Central about losing Vizcaino.

  158. seth December 23rd, 2009 at 12:29 am

    BETSY: i want to make a few points to you.

    firstly, everyone is entitled to opinions and certain emotions, sorry we all can’t be the all knowing goddess you make yourself out to be. Yes, some of us have mixed emotions on trading melky because he was a key piece to many big moments last year in our world series season and was only 25 and homegrown.

    secondly, typical ignorant fan concerning gardner. he isnt good? Why? Because he didnt hit 15 homers, or because he doesnt have a canon arm like melk (whom you dont miss at all)… Well, look at UZR rating. Gardners, in only about a half season of play, was well, well above melky’s (i dont have exact #’s, but they are easily accessible in many places). it is almost staggering how far apart the UZRs are. And while he doesnt have the power, his speed makes him a perfect candidate to round out the order stealing 50+ bases easily over the course of 150+ games. If he can grow upon his discipline and reach base at a .350 clip, he will be a legit option to have.

    lastly, javy vazquez. you obviously don’t watch much baseball. Before this season, arod=choke, choke, choke, choke and steroids. Returns from injury, hits a walk off, hits many big hits in playoffs, and is now a fan favorite again. Fan’s in New York are beautiful because they can hate you one minute and love you the next, as long as you win. Us NYY fans have short term memory loss with players, as long as they produce under the limelight. So, dont say fans will have a tough time forgetting. Of course, if he comes out getting mashed in april, then yes, it will bring back memories, but if he looks anything like the javy of 09 by the slightest margins (4.25 ERA, 200ks 200IP) we will love him.

  159. m December 23rd, 2009 at 12:29 am

    Um, when will Sheets be ready?

    And from the last thread. Doreen and another poster were having a discussion about Damon and someone thought that Damon wanted to be a Yankee all along and was just holding (us up) for more money. I don’t know, guys. If he wanted to be a Yankee, then he should’ve signed on the dotted line as soon as he saw the Yankees let the revered Hideki Matsui go by the wayside. These Yankees aren’t fooling around. When they say budget, they mean budget. When they say younger, they mean younger. And when they say more athletic, they mean more athletic.

    I don’t know how Johnny was holding out, when Bay and Holliday were only going to get 5 years. If he couldn’t see that the market is down in the last year, and that has worked to the Yankees advantage then he’ll have learned it the hard way.

  160. Rockks December 23rd, 2009 at 12:30 am

    It seems that EVERY writer, analyst, talk show host, etc. love this deal… but the fans hate it.

    The Granderson trade was mostly positive, but some mixed reviews from the media

    The NJ move garnered very mixed reviews, probably leaning towards negative actually by the media (because he is slow, Damon was a better fit, Matsui was better, etc).

    This move seems to be all positive and everyone loves it, except a good portion of fans. The media loves it.

  161. Bronx Jeers December 23rd, 2009 at 12:31 am

    “Melky was unable to complain because he didn’t speak english”

    Or he may have just been too lazy to complain.

    —————————————

    Or his mouth was full of peanuts?

    Did you guys know that Javier Vasquez was 4th in the majors in K’s?

    9th in the majors in ERA?

    Guy pitched like an ace last season.

  162. stuckey December 23rd, 2009 at 12:31 am

    Betsy, out of latenight, idle curiosity, who would you consider a good “3rd”, bottom of the order type OF. A guy(s) you’d feel comfortable roaming the outfield and holding down the 8th or 9th spot.

    Doesn’t have to be a free agent or on the trading block, this is just for discussion sake.

  163. Jeremy December 23rd, 2009 at 12:32 am

    Betsy – high on pie
    Yeah Besty you understand ! These guys will make mistakes they are human. Sabathia will be the first to say that he sucked in the postseason and people called him a postseason choke artist especially against Boston in the 2007 ALCS and look at him now. The same with A-rod “he can’t get it done he is not a real Yankee” LOL !

    Some of these fans are so stupid I like to see them go out on the field and try to do what these guys do.

    I think Javy has something to prove especially since he is going for his last big contract of his career. I think he will show up like CC and A-rod did this year putting down the critics.

  164. Mike December 23rd, 2009 at 12:32 am

    Did any Yankee fan really think this team had a chance when the ALCS got to a game 7?

  165. randyhater December 23rd, 2009 at 12:32 am

    I agree with the poster who said Cash is trade happy. He burns to be taken seriously as a wheeler-dealer when everyone knows his team’s success is underwritten by Steinbrenner money and the golden core that he inherited.

    Why else flip a third of the line-up and a boatload of valuable pieces for no real reason? The team won 103 games and the WS and Matsui, Damon and Melky were huge, huge parts. Why blow them out when they would all come back on reasonable, short term deals?

    We’ve essentially swapped Matsui/Damon for Granderson/Johnson (which to me makes us weaker but can at best be called a push) added a 4th starter and given up Ajax, Kennedy, Arodys, Dunn, Coke, and Melky in the bargain.

    To me these deals make zero sense.

  166. bru December 23rd, 2009 at 12:32 am

    Jeremy
    December 23rd, 2009 at 12:17 am
    bru
    Who are you going to get besides Javy without giving up a lot of prospects ?

    This was a good deal. Cashman gets a good 4th starter and colects the draft picks when he hits Free Agency.

    You really are not going to find a better deal than this.

    ———————————————————-

    there is now way of knowing how this turns out

    does melky take off?

    what will the prospects we gave up turn into?

    the big one
    how will jv do?

    10-12 million for a 4.5 era?

    does hughes or joba go to the pen & is that the right move?

    does signing jv prevent us from making other moves that help us more?

    should melky & the 2 prospects we traded with him been used in other trades that benefit us more?

    anybody can say this is a great move or a bad move but the reality is nobody knows not even cashman

    what happens if jv has a 4.89 era,pitches only ok & melky has 23 hr & 90 rbi

    are we better with jv or more offense like holliday

    i am not a fan at all of jv from his last visit

  167. Zolio December 23rd, 2009 at 12:34 am

    Amazing how one bad game can skew people’s perspectives so much. If Torre doesn’t put him in that game at all, do people suddenly like Javy more?

    And if we start to assign blame for 2004… Javy is WAY down on the list. Anyone forget Rivera in games 4 and 5? Torre’s errors throughout the series? etc.

  168. Jerkface December 23rd, 2009 at 12:35 am

    Why else flip a third of the line-up and a boatload of valuable pieces for no real reason? The team won 103 games and the WS and Matsui, Damon and Melky were huge, huge parts. Why blow them out when they would all come back on reasonable, short term deals?

    First of all, how do you know that Damon could be had for a reasonable short term deal? Melky was definitely not a huge huge part of anything. Additionally, Matsui gave Cash no choice.

    Get a grip.

  169. ariel December 23rd, 2009 at 12:35 am

    As I recall, Vazquez started the 04 season in acceptable form but then encountered some mechanical problems in June which Stottlemeyer could not resolve. They endured for the balance of the season culminating in the post-season disaster. Apparently, his mechanics were resolved in Arizona, Chicago and Atlanta. That’s a good sign, obviously. It would also suggest that it wasn’t the “Big Stage” that was the problem in 04.

  170. bru December 23rd, 2009 at 12:36 am

    Jerkface
    December 23rd, 2009 at 12:19 am
    even if we get derosa,damon,dejesus. who is our backup o.f.

    if we got any of them Garder would be the 4th OFer, and he is certainly capable.

    ———————————————————–

    man you guys are really smart

    i meant who is our backup now?

    nobody mentions that obvious problem

  171. Rich in NJ December 23rd, 2009 at 12:36 am

    Vizcaino was a significant loss. It makes it almost imperative to sign Chapman.

  172. Jerkface December 23rd, 2009 at 12:37 am

    melky has 23 hr & 90 rbi

    Gonna go out on a limb and say this doesn’t happen. He will probably hit about what he hit in 2009, maybe worse, maybe better. He will certainly lose HRs because of Turner Field.

  173. Harold December 23rd, 2009 at 12:37 am

    2004 is over, folks.

    Our new core all have rings now… Girardi, CC, AJ, Tex, Swish, Cano, A-Rod, Hughes, Joba, Robertson, Aceves, etc.

    No more reason to be paranoid. Red Sox fans have no ammunition anymore. No longer “they won 2 since we won 1″, now it is “we have won 1 since they won 1″.

  174. Jerkface December 23rd, 2009 at 12:38 am

    i meant who is our backup now?

    Well then it’d be Hoffman or Ramiro Pena. Cashman is not going into next season without another OFer. We already know this. Gardner is the backup OFer.

  175. Rich in NJ December 23rd, 2009 at 12:38 am

    “People get so caught up in their own opinions that they are blinded to any other possibilities. Gardner has more value coming off the bench (pinch runner, defensive replacement) than he does starting.”

    We have seen far too small a sample size for that claim to be valid, so perhaps it is you who isn’t seeing other possibilities.

  176. DaSaint007 December 23rd, 2009 at 12:39 am

    Loving the new depth of our rotation. 1 – 4 should match up with anybody, anytime, and our #5 should be equivalent to opponen’ts #3 or #4.

    Was always a fan of Vazquez, and hope he has a successful stint here next season. I had mentioned earlier today that one of the benefits of trading for him was that there were 2 draft picks associated as long as he remains a Type A player. Someone opined that the Yanks don’t offer their FAs arbitration, but I was glad Cashman specifically mentioned that the draft picks were one of the reasons this deal was made, which makes perfect sense. Therefore it’s pretty clear that they will offer him abitration. Again flexibility in case they can’t sign Cliff Lee or Brandon Webb and/or if Pettitte retires.

    Apart from the lingering question about LF, only the pen and bench remain. Looking forward to ST.

    Ok, good night good people. I stayed up way too late last night.

  177. Al December 23rd, 2009 at 12:39 am

    “Vizcaino was a significant loss. It makes it almost imperative to sign Chapman.”

    Agree. We lost quite a bit from our farm this winter, it is time to restock it with a high ceiling arm like Chapman.

  178. Bronx Jeers December 23rd, 2009 at 12:40 am

    “Did any Yankee fan really think this team had a chance when the ALCS got to a game 7?”

    In a word? No.

    Not with Kevin Brown on the mound.

    Actually I thought we had a better chance if Joe started Javy.

  179. Rich in NJ December 23rd, 2009 at 12:40 am

    Stupidity via Rosenthal:

    http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....t-MLB-buzz

  180. G. Love December 23rd, 2009 at 12:40 am

    I’m really tired of all the hand wringing going on over this Vizcaino kid. Really ridiculous.

    This is a great trade. Cash has already come out and said he sees offering arb as a way of getting more picks after the year should the team not want to resign Javy who won’t accept arb since can and will do better as a free agent than a one year arb award.

    The farm will be restocked. We’ll sign another flame throwing international free agent.

    In the meantime our rotation is set with the exception of who wins the 5 spot.

    The core of this team is win now. Jeter, Mo, Posada, Arod etc. are players who are still good enough to win championships. They deserve the best chance possible. They play their hearts out.

    The way I see it the Yankees have not given up a prospect who has come back to haunt them in a very long time.

    Every time I ask the prospect aficionado’s to tell me which prospects have come back to haunt us in recent years (I’m not talking Buhner and Leiter days) the best they can do is give me Dioner Navarro, Juan Rivera and Marcus Thames.

    Boy those losses really hurt the team, huh? I’m surprised we survived those 3 and that departure of Ricky Ledee.

    The point is have faith that this team and this GM knows exactly what it’s doing.

    If they trade a prospect, they trade him for a reason.

    Cashman is so stingy with his top prospects anybody he actually does trade I figure has little to no shot to make a difference.

    Our front office is stacked with people who know pitching now.

    I’d hazard to guess that there was something in this A ball pitcher that made him expendable for a 1 year rental SP.

    If the front office believed he was as good as some are claiming in here today, he’d be untouchable. He’d be Montero.

    As for LF, I don’t know what to think. The thing that keeps hope alive re: Holliday is that he hasn’t signed anywhere yet. The Cards have made him his offer and he didn’t jump.

    There’s a reason he’s unsigned. It’s not just Boras and the way he operates.

    If we don’t get him, I’m not sure what direction we go. I’d love to bring Damon back but the front office is right in worrying that Damon will be disgruntled having had to take a discount on what he thought he’d earn.

    I think Damon rubbed a few the wrong way with that whole “I want to retire” bit he had early in his contract here.

  181. randyhater December 23rd, 2009 at 12:42 am

    “First of all, how do you know that Damon could be had for a reasonable short term deal? Melky was definitely not a huge huge part of anything. Additionally, Matsui gave Cash no choice.”

    It’s been widely reported that Damon would accpet 2/20M. Seems reasonable and short to me.

    Melky was our starting center fielder and one of our best hitters in the Angel series.

    Matsui gave Cash no choice? He signed for a million more than we gave NJ a week later. He had his choice and he made it. We’re a worse team as a result.

  182. Rich in NJ December 23rd, 2009 at 12:42 am

    “I’m really tired of all the hand wringing going on over this Vizcaino kid. Really ridiculous.”

    It’s ridiculous to call it hand wringing. Just because one acknowledges that it was a significant loss, it doesn’t mean that the trade didn’t make sense.

  183. stuckey December 23rd, 2009 at 12:44 am

    Vizcaino was a significant loss. It makes it almost imperative to sign Chapman.

    ____________________

    No offense meant, the terms “significant” and “imperative” cannot be used in a discussion of a pitcher who has not pitched beyond short season professional ball.

    And not to sound sarcastic, but why are we assuming that the Yankees are in the midst of complete altering their approach to building a starting staff. This team has been the most successful team of the last 15 years and they haven’t developed a homegrown starter since Pettitte.

    The odds of a pro at that level succeeding in the majors is exceedingly low. The odds of them succeeding as a Yankee are expodentially lower.

    I don’t think the Yankees will ever have more than one homegrown pitcher in their staff at any given time and even then, they just won’t have the same length lease prospects on other teams would.

    That’s just the reality of the Yankee universe.

  184. Jeremy December 23rd, 2009 at 12:44 am

    Harold
    Right ! The Red Sox are going downhill. They are making the same mistakes that the Yankees made in the early 2000′s. They are getting older injury prone players while the Yankees are getting younger. Their payroll is going up as well and it’s getting closer to the Yankees. I believe right now their payroll is around 177 million.

    The Yankees are in the drivers seat and the Red Sox are trying to keep up. So enough about 2004 !

  185. Phil the Thrill December 23rd, 2009 at 12:47 am

    How soon they forget Chien-Ming Wang.

  186. G. Love December 23rd, 2009 at 12:49 am

    Rich in NJ,

    There have been people posting all day crying about the loss of Vizcaino and condemning this trade. I’m not calling you specifically out for that, but I find it sad that on a day we land a great starting pitcher some Yankee fans are in a tizzy over the loss of an A ball pitcher.

    If Vixcaino was as sure of a thing as some people have made him out to be in here today, he would still be on the Yankees right now.

    The front office know it’s a long road from short season A ball to Yankee stadium and an awful lot can happen to derail a talented player between now and then.

  187. Al December 23rd, 2009 at 12:49 am

    ESPN’s Keith Law rated David Ortiz signing with Boston as the best free agent pickup of the decade.

  188. Jerkface December 23rd, 2009 at 12:49 am

    It’s been widely reported that Damon would accpet 2/20M. Seems reasonable and short to me.

    Melky was our starting center fielder and one of our best hitters in the Angel series.

    Matsui gave Cash no choice? He signed for a million more than we gave NJ a week later. He had his choice and he made it. We’re a worse team as a result.

    2/20 for Damon is too much. He isn’t a spring chicken and his power this year was directly a result of NYS. Love Damon, he is a true yankee, but not 2/20.

    Matsui’s agent gave Cashman an ultimatum, and Cashman doesn’t ‘do’ ultimatums. Once he declined the Ultimatum and Matsui signed, he just went and acquired the next likely target for DH for a million dollars less.

    Melky’s OPS in all the playoff series was .750. Well below what many of the yankees posted up. He had that great bases loaded hit vs the angels, but his production is replacable, and merely being a part of a championship team does not confer bonus to baseball skill.

    Granderson+NJ > Damon+Matsui , younger cheaper better at certain things and overall projected to be 2 wins better than Damon and Matsui. Keep in mind Granderson fields well, and Damon doesn’t. Nick Johnson might lack Matsui’s power, but he hits for a high average in clutch situations and gets on base like a mofo.

    Likely OF signing > Likely cabrera 2010 season

  189. bru December 23rd, 2009 at 12:50 am

    stuckey

    i refuse to mention names because every expert here will give me a billion so called facts that will prove it impossible

    listen all i am saying is nobody knows how much this helps

    are we better with jv as our number 4?

    what happens if joba pitches as well or better for 500,000 or 1 million dollars & we could of kept melky or traded him with the other 2 we gave up for other more important players

    i believe we are better only because of jv’s innings he gives us.

    nothing else

    i did not like his last visit with us at all

    i hope he proves me wrong

    you have to understand i am a yankee fan & wan’t him to do well

  190. stuckey December 23rd, 2009 at 12:51 am

    We’re a worse team as a result.

    ___________________

    Randyhater, I’m not arguing with you, I simply want to ask what is your reaction to the fact that numerous (and to the best of my knowledge all) advanced, unbiased statistical analysis conclude the Yankees are better positioned than they were before these transactions.

    Please understand, I am not saying you can’t be right, I’m asking about what methodology YOU are using to drawn your conclusions?

  191. Jerkface December 23rd, 2009 at 12:51 am

    ESPN’s Keith Law rated David Ortiz signing with Boston as the best free agent pickup of the decade.

    Meh, it arguably gave them 2 world series. No FA signing the yankees made gave them as many. Or any other team.

  192. randyhater December 23rd, 2009 at 12:51 am

    Please stop with the Vasquez/2004 revisionist history. The guy couldn’t crack a post season rotation that included Jon Lieber, a brokendown Kevin Brown and a running on fumes El Duque.

    Brown got pummeled in Game 3 and yet not a single person in NY, not one, thought Vasquez (who was scared silly) should get the ball over him in Game 7. Anyone who had doubts quickly lost them when he came in and crapped his pants.

    To make matters worse, instead of owning up to it today like a man, he invents a sore shoulder 5 years after the fact.

    It’s funny, Vasquez is like the other blog darling, Mike Cameron. Everyone loves him except the team that actually has him. They’re always plenty happy to let him go on his merry way.

  193. Tim December 23rd, 2009 at 12:52 am

    I don’t love giving up Vizcaino for Vazquez and I don’t love Damon or Reed Johnson/Gardner in LF.

    Not the best day for Cash. We’re still going to be a force in 2010, but signing Holliday and keeping Vizciano was the way to go.

  194. stuckey December 23rd, 2009 at 12:52 am

    How soon they forget Chien-Ming Wang.

    ______________________

    Guilty!

  195. DaSaint007 December 23rd, 2009 at 12:52 am

    Stucky, Taiwan is going to be very angry.

  196. Bronx Jeers December 23rd, 2009 at 12:55 am

    “How soon they forget Chien-Ming Wang.”

    Chien-Ming Who?

    Seriously, I wish they were in the position to give him another shot.

    But in reality it’s probably best for him if he moves on.

  197. Jerkface December 23rd, 2009 at 12:57 am

    How do you know he was scared silly? Because you were scared silly of seeing him pitch? Don’t foist your cowardice on him.

    He is a professional athlete, hardly anyone that would make it to the top 1% of players of a sport are cowardly.

  198. Rich in NJ December 23rd, 2009 at 12:58 am

    “No offense meant, the terms “significant” and “imperative” cannot be used in a discussion of a pitcher who has not pitched beyond short season professional ball.”

    Of course it can. When you lose a prospect that BA ranks third in your system, and your system is ranked in the middle of the pack, it limits your ability to trade other high end prospects in subsequent trades.

    It then becomes a priority (or an imperative) to use the franchise’s financial advantage to put your organization in the position it was in status quo ante, because it will enable the organization to have the ability to make moves in the future, or compensate for any unexpected contingency, e.g., injuries or performance declines.

    “The odds of a pro at that level succeeding in the majors is exceedingly low. The odds of them succeeding as a Yankee are expodentially (?) lower.”

    That’s why you need as many high end prospects as possible. Which basically rebuts the premise of your post.

  199. randyhater December 23rd, 2009 at 12:59 am

    “Matsui’s agent gave Cashman an ultimatum, and Cashman doesn’t ‘do’ ultimatums. Once he declined the Ultimatum and Matsui signed, he just went and acquired the next likely target for DH for a million dollars less.”

    That’s the only part of your post I agree with. Cash let Matsui go over pride.

    Unfortunately, his job is to make us a better team, not put agents and proven winners in their place.

    If Nick Johnson spends 5 months on the DL and Matsui tears it up in Anaheim, knowing Cash didn’t back down to Arn Tellem won’t make me feel the slightest bit better.

  200. stuckey December 23rd, 2009 at 1:00 am

    “stuckey

    i refuse to mention names because every expert here will give me a billion so called facts that will prove it impossible”

    ______________________

    In fact, I asked you NOT to mention names. I’m asking for a general description of what makes someone a frontline starter?

    How many frontline starters do you feel even exist in the major leagues? 5, 10, 20, 30?

    __________________________

    “listen all i am saying is nobody knows how much this helps”

    ___________________________

    I agree with this, but then, isn’t that a given, for this and EVERY other transaction?

    I think this is an important point. I think in forums like this there are a breed of fan that only seems comfortable with sure things, at least as sure a thing that comes with superstar level players.

    There are few sure things in baseball. Is Vasquez one of them, no, I agree, but again, given that’s almost always the case, can’t we just evaluate this trade of the probabilities?

  201. Rich in NJ December 23rd, 2009 at 1:02 am

    G. Love

    OK, as long as you distinguish between irrational “crying” and a legitimate acknowledgement of the loss of a top prospect, even if it was for a worthwhile trade.

  202. Jerkface December 23rd, 2009 at 1:02 am

    If Nick Johnson spends 5 months on the DL and Matsui tears it up in Anaheim, knowing Cash didn’t back down to Arn Tellem won’t make me feel the slightest bit better.

    Ok, but there are 2 halves to any half empty glass. What if Nick Johnson, under the better preventative care of the New York Yankees in their lush new facilities, with a manager who seems to know how to get the most out of his players, plays 140 games for the yankees between 1b and DH, hits .290/.425/.475 with 20 HRs and 90 RBIs and Matsui’s knees break down again when LAA stupidly plays him in the outfield twice a week and he goes on the DL or is ineffective?

    Then is Cashman a genius for not risking the medical and age factors of Matsui for some silly ultimatum?

  203. PittsburghYankeeFan December 23rd, 2009 at 1:02 am

    G Love

    I’m with you.

    I think Hal is going to channel a bit of his dad on this one. Maybe he already is. Maybe even dad himself is weighing in, from somewhere in Tampa on the days he’s lucid.

    If this is 2003 or 2004, George would have been on the phone to Cash with these words:
    “Oklahoma reminds me a lot of Micky Mantle and Bobby Murcer, Brian. Make this happen, now, please.”

    The reason this is in a holding pattern is that Cash are Boras are having one of those staring contests, waiting for the other to blink. The Sox have been very careful not to make an offer now. The Cards have been careful not to up their offer–watch them snap up Jason Bay, who is almost as good a fit for the team, once this plays out.

    The keys were the Melky deal, and the low offer to Damon, indicating that they had him slotted as a DH for DH money. A $200 million team with a replacement level LF? Ain’t happening.

    Soon Cash is going to say: “$85-90 x 5, with a club option 6. Shop it and it’s withdrawn. And Scott, I’m not doing Johnny as the backup if it goes down.”

    If this does go down, MLB will be in an uproar. Add in Cliff Lee to replace a retiring Pettitte in 2011, and blood pressures in the MLB executive offices will go even higher. Potential consequences for the CBA? Severe increase in the lux tax over the limit. More likely, severe penalty for signing more than 1 (or maybe 2) type A FA in a season.

    The Yankees, who will look and be dynastic in their $1.5 billion palace, with $350-400 million in revenue from YES yearly, an increasing fan base (who doesn’t like a winner), will have to be reined in.

  204. Alex December 23rd, 2009 at 1:03 am

    If we sign Lee next year, we have no place for anyone for atleast 3 years, when Burnett’s contract expires.

    And by then, maybe Banalunos, McAllister, Brackman, Mitchell, or Nova are in that spot. Hughes and Joba will be.

    Most of the pitchers in our system are trade bait.

  205. Jeremy December 23rd, 2009 at 1:03 am

    randyhater
    Vasquez did own up to his postseason failure. He wasn’t the only one who mentioned that he had a bad shoulder in the second half. And stop blaming him for 2004 when the entire team including Torre was responsible for the collapse.

    Heck CC sabathia was a part of the collapse against the Red Sox in 2007 with the Indians when they had a 3-1 lead. I don’t see you calling him out saying he shouldn’t be on the Yankees !

    Get over 2004 okay ! I think it’s pathetic that some Yankee fans still talk about this crap, people are human collapses happen to all teams.

  206. Jerkface December 23rd, 2009 at 1:03 am

    There are few sure things in baseball. Is Vasquez one of them, no, I agree, but again, given that’s almost always the case, can’t we just evaluate this trade of the probabilities?

    I think Javy is a sure thing to throw 200 IP, which I think is one of the values Cashman explicitly mentioned in his call to MLB Network.

  207. DaSaint007 December 23rd, 2009 at 1:03 am

    I’m too tired to get into more Vazquez talk, but:
    He’s making less than Pettitte.
    He pitches 200+ innings.
    He’s good for 15 wins or so.
    He’s good for over 150K.
    He doesn’t walk too many.
    He’s in his contract year, and ALL soon-to-be FA do well in their contract year.
    He was 4th in his league’s Cy Young voting.

    And we shouldn’t have traded an average OF and a promising 19yr old A-ball pitcher, and a former OF converted to P for him?

    Thank God Cashman & Co. is running this team.

    This trade solidifies the rotation, significantly decreases pressure of having 2 young arms in the rotation, adds insurance to the top end of the rotation in case of injuries, AND guarantees 2 draft picks to help restock the system.

    It serves the present, the near future, and the distant future – all at the same time.

  208. Jerkface December 23rd, 2009 at 1:07 am

    Instead of having to look at John Lackey’s disgusting face for 5 years, we get Javier for 1 and then our pick of the far superior FA crop next season.

    Gotta love it.

  209. David in Cal December 23rd, 2009 at 1:07 am

    If I were manager, Gardner would be the regular CF. I think he is the best center fielder. Hoffman should be the only backup outfielder. The team can carry 2 backup infielders. Pena can back up both infield and outfield.

  210. John December 23rd, 2009 at 1:09 am

    “Instead of having to look at John Lackey’s disgusting face for 5 years, we get Javier for 1 and then our pick of the far superior FA crop next season.”

    And Javy is a pretty good looking guy (in a straight way)

  211. Jeremy December 23rd, 2009 at 1:09 am

    DaSaint007
    Amen !

  212. Pat M December 23rd, 2009 at 1:09 am

    Vasquez shoulder issues was beginnig to become evident right after the All-Star break, in fact there were some in the Front Office questing if he should go to the game…….I’m meeting a friend of mine who played 10 years in bigs who in the same foursome as Ken Forsch….I see what he has to say about the Matsui signing….He was the same person who told me back in November 2007 that while they played Peeble Forsch said then that he thought the Yanks were going to be a big player in the Texeria sweepstakes……It was mentioned here at that time…..

  213. 24 Cano December 23rd, 2009 at 1:10 am

    Why not just sign Eric Hinske to play left? He is better than Gardner, a great guy in the clubhouse, can come off the bench, and can probably be had on a 1 yr deal?

  214. PittsburghYankeeFan December 23rd, 2009 at 1:13 am

    24 Cano.

    That’s likely in the mix, as the cheap option.

  215. stuckey December 23rd, 2009 at 1:14 am

    “Of course it can. When you lose a prospect that BA ranks third in your system, and your system is ranked in the middle of the pack, it limits your ability to trade other high end prospects in subsequent trades.”

    ________________________________

    You’re not signing Chapman to trade him. And the Yankee organization isn’t counting on short season pitchers to make the team, on any timetable. This means Chapman doesn’t make any OTHER prospect in the system more or less expendable.

    So what in effect you’re describing is the obvious. Trading a high end prospect means you have one less high end prospect AT THE MOMENT. No argument. That’s just math.

    But I don’t see any circumstance in which the Yankees would refuse to part with say Buenelos (sp?) due to lack of minor league depth.

    They’ll hold onto him or not based on how they rate his ability and projection. They won’t hold on to him for system depth issues.

    So again, Chapman would just make their system rating different, it wouldn’t effect their willingness or ability to trade another minor league pitcher.

    “That’s why you need as many high end prospects as possible. Which basically rebuts the premise of your post.”

    No, the premise of my post is you’ve arbitrarily declared the Yankee farm system has reached a critical mass in terms of lack of depth. That the trade of a short season pitcher has SO handicapped their system, that it’ “imperative” they sign someone who might cost them $20+ million, though the signing wouldn’t even address the concern you raise.

  216. rodg12 December 23rd, 2009 at 1:16 am

    Not interested in Hinske as the full-time LF. He’d be brutal out there defensively.

  217. Mike December 23rd, 2009 at 1:17 am

    When you trade Melky, Vizcaino, Coke, Dunn, Kennedy, and Jackson… it has reached a critical mass.

  218. DaSaint007 December 23rd, 2009 at 1:17 am

    Alex
    December 23rd, 2009 at 1:03 am
    If we sign Lee next year, we have no place for anyone for atleast 3 years, when Burnett’s contract expires.

    And by then, maybe Banalunos, McAllister, Brackman, Mitchell, or Nova are in that spot. Hughes and Joba will be.

    Most of the pitchers in our system are trade bait.
    ———————————————————–
    Great observation.

    CC has an opt out clause after the 2011 season, but otherwise his contract is for 7 years I believe, so that’s until the end of the 2015 season.

    AJ’s contract ends 2013.

    Andy signed for 1 year, so he’s a FA after 2010. Cliff Lee, another lefty, could be signed to replace him for 2011-2014.

    Vazquez’ contract ends next year, so he’s also a FA after 2010. Hughes or Joba could become the #4 starter.

    The # 5 slot, to be occupied this season by Hughes/Joba will be available.

  219. G. Love December 23rd, 2009 at 1:17 am

    Pittsburgh Yankee Fan,

    Great points. Here’s my thoughts.

    The Yankees are going to get the hammer laid down on them in the next CBA agreement. I’m fearful that a salary cap is coming.

    If I’m the Yankees and Cashman, I spend now while I am still allowed to spend.

    Whatever cap that will come into play will have to come with a grandfather clause that won’t penalize teams for signings before the cap was instilled.

    If it’s not a salary cap, then it will be a higher luxury tax.

    Whatever it is, MLB will come up with something to keep the Yankees spending in check.

    That’s a big reason why I sign Holliday now and win as many titles as I can before these “new rules” are enacted.

    I’m fairly certain there will be a work stoppage in the next CBA.

    The players cannot accept a cap in this sport.

    What the owners are basically doing to them right now is slashing their salaries and greasing the skids to get the players to accept a cap when it’s offered.

    The whole pitch will be that with a cap (and presumably a salary floor) there will be more opportunity for them.

    That’s a lie. A cap kills the players ability to earn top dollar.

    I’m fairly sure that the next CBA will have something in it that the Yankees will hate and it will affect how they do business.

    So do business now. It’s not like signing Holliday is going to be the straw that breaks the camels back. If we don’t sign him, MLB will still try to punish/hinder us in the next CBA.

  220. Sacrificefly December 23rd, 2009 at 1:18 am

    DaSaint007

    Your 1:03 post is absolutely perfect and should automaticaly be the answer any time this trade gets discussed.

  221. G. Love December 23rd, 2009 at 1:21 am

    I second that DaSaint. Great post!

  222. stuckey December 23rd, 2009 at 1:21 am

    “When you trade Melky, Vizcaino, Coke, Dunn, Kennedy, and Jackson… it has reached a critical mass.”

    Not if you understand what “arbitrary” means.

    And I can say that with certainty because if I ask for someone to define when a system is at the required level of depth, I know I won’t get an answer.

    Saying they traded 6 guys so they MUST be at critical mass holds no intellectual weight. You also need to identify who is left and to what level they are over or under the requirement.

  223. rodg12 December 23rd, 2009 at 1:22 am

    Well, I woke up this morning to this great Vazquez news. What’s the odds I wake up tomorrow to some great news on the LF front? Hopefully I do…night all.

  224. Pat M December 23rd, 2009 at 1:25 am

    Folks, The arrival of Vasquez gives the club the best chance of repeating….He gives them the best # 4 starter in baseball….All you hope for in the 4 spot is a guy who can give you innings and be a plus 3 ( 13-10 for an example )….Vasquez can do much better than that….I’m thinking 14-8 at least….

  225. Rich in NJ December 23rd, 2009 at 1:25 am

    “You’re not signing Chapman to trade him. And the Yankee organization isn’t counting on short season pitchers to make the team, on any timetable. This means Chapman doesn’t make any OTHER prospect in the system more or less expendable.”

    I never said they were. I said that signing Chapman affords them the depth to trade other prospects if needs arise, or promote from within, if necessary.

    Oh please. Young pitchers have to start somewhere. If he continued to develop, he would have a shot to contribute on the ML level, like any other prospect.

    “So what in effect you’re describing is the obvious. Trading a high end prospect means you have one less high end prospect AT THE MOMENT. No argument. That’s just math.”

    No, my point is that if you trade a high end prospect, and don’t have a surfeit of high end prospects, and you have an opportunity to get another, as well as the deep pockets to sign him, you do it. That’s the math you should be seeing.

    “But I don’t see any circumstance in which the Yankees would refuse to part with say Buenelos (sp?) due to lack of minor league depth.

    They’ll hold onto him or not based on how they rate his ability and projection. They won’t hold on to him for system depth issues.”

    Are all prospects fungible to you? They shouldn’t be, because they aren’t.

    “So again, Chapman would just make their system rating different, it wouldn’t effect their willingness or ability to trade another minor league pitcher.”

    Seriously? What happens when all your depth is gone and you have holes to fill?

    “No, the premise of my post is you’ve arbitrarily declared the Yankee farm system has reached a critical mass in terms of lack of depth. That the trade of a short season pitcher has SO handicapped their system, that it’ “imperative” they sign someone who might cost them $20+ million, though the signing wouldn’t even address the concern you raise.”

    No, I haven’t. I have made a simple point:

    When good prospects are lost, smart, rich teams try to replenish them ASAP with other good prospects.

    Whoa. You really like typing “short season,” huh?

    I guess you feel compelled to overdraw a point because your argument is so weak.

    This short season pitcher just got you a very good starter.

    If that’s what short season pitchers are worth, I want more…a lot more.

    I also want a top mL system so the organization has options for all contingencies.

    Chapman can help make that a reality.

  226. HeavyHitter December 23rd, 2009 at 1:26 am

    Cashman is good. If he signs Chapman, he’s a genius. We need a RH-hitting leftfielder for a year or two. Forget Holliday & Bay. Somewhere, room has to be made for Montero, and if he’s Manny Ramirez in left field, so be it.

  227. Jeremy December 23rd, 2009 at 1:27 am

    There will never be a Salary cap in MLB. I don’t know why people talk about it. The Players Union and the large maket clubs won’t allow it. And it won’t create parity even if they pass one.

  228. Jerzz December 23rd, 2009 at 1:27 am

    Vizcaino is going to tear up the AL East in a couple of years, like Edinson Volquez did last year.

    If we win a ES this year though, then the trade is worth it even if Vizzy turns into Pedro.

  229. Jerzz December 23rd, 2009 at 1:28 am

    *win a world series

  230. Jerkface December 23rd, 2009 at 1:31 am

    There will never be a Salary cap in MLB. I don’t know why people talk about it. The Players Union and the large maket clubs won’t allow it. And it won’t create parity even if they pass one.

    ~~~
    Vizcaino is going to tear up the AL East in a couple of years, like Edinson Volquez did last year.

    First point, Agreed. The owners don’t want it because they’d have to increase salaries to atleast 60-65% of revenue to match Football and NBA. The owners want slotting for the draft and an international draft sooner than they want any kind of cap, especially because the large markets would want a salary floor as well, and changes to the revenue sharing.

    All the bottom teams are content to leech off the revenue sharing model right now.

    Second point- Vizcaino will tear up the NL east you mean?

  231. DaSaint007 December 23rd, 2009 at 1:31 am

    Thanks all, but I am tired, so maybe I’m a little pissy.

    I’m a big Melky fan, and a big Kennedy fan. I think both will have good careers. I wish they could have stayed in the organization, but they were traded for impact players who can help now and in the future. And frankly, they were expendable.

    I think Melky can be a 25HR, 85RBI, .280 AVG, 20+ SB player.
    I think Kennedy can be a 15 game winner.

    But not right now. Both will have opportunites, and therefore both will be available later. In fact, Melky will be a FA in just 2 more years!

    Not all trades work out ( I would have held on to Ross Ohlendorf and the AG), and I hope these do, but these were sound trades, and I completely understand and support them.

    Anyway, good night. Let’s see if Santa’s coming early, or we just have to wait for next year (visions of Crawford jumping over the wall in LF)…

  232. Rich in NJ December 23rd, 2009 at 1:32 am

    “I think Melky can be a 25HR, 85RBI, .280 AVG, 20+ SB player.”

    I don’t.

  233. randyhater December 23rd, 2009 at 1:32 am

    Stuckey,

    I don’t get bogged down in statistical analysis and think that people who do miss the forest for the trees. Is there any statistical analysis that would have recommended signing Posada and Rivera to long term deals at their respective ages? Who thinks those were bad deals now?

    I like Nick Johnson but any stat that says he is, or has been, Matsui’s equal as a player is nonsense. Do you think there’s a pitcher in baseball who’d rather face Matsui with a game on the line? Can you envision a scenario where Nick would blow up a game like Hideki did in Game 6? I can’t.

    Think back to Game 4 and Damon’s Series changing atbat against Lidge. Would you have rathered Granderson up in that spot? Not me in a million years.

    I saw enough of Vazquez in 04 to know I don’t like him, and the fact he’s been moved four times since shows I’m not alone.

    I believe in clutch hitting and I belive in the human element in baseball. I wouldn’t watch if I didn’t. I believe that Melky Cabrera brought things to the team that can’t be measured statistically and that he played a big role in our success. And I think assuming the stats of the guys we’ve acquired can be plugged into next year’s record like numbers in a math problem is foolish.

    Feel free to question anything I post. I don’t take it personally and enjoy mixing it up,respectfully.

  234. G. Love December 23rd, 2009 at 1:34 am

    I hope you guys are right about a salary cap never being enforced.

    I just think that the Yankees do business so differently than any other team in the league rules are going to be enacted to stop them from doing this.

  235. Jerkface December 23rd, 2009 at 1:35 am

    Is there any statistical analysis that would have recommended signing Posada and Rivera to long term deals at their respective ages?

    Posada was worth a 3 year deal at the very least by every statistical projection system on the internet. He didn’t have many innings logged and has been incredibly durable his entire career. Cash even wanted him for 3 but was forced by the mets to go to 4, so no biggie.

    And no projection system will ever measure up to Mariano Rivera. And using him as an example is foolish. Any other team in baseball would have a hard time justifying giving Mariano the contract we did.

  236. Jerkface December 23rd, 2009 at 1:37 am

    Do you think there’s a pitcher in baseball who’d rather face Matsui with a game on the line?

    Scott Kazmir, Jeremy Guthrie, Tim Wakefield, Mark Hendrickson, Rodrigo Lopez. All pitchers with 30+ PA’s vs matsui and OPS against under .700

    (you know who is actually the best? Pedro Martinez, but I left him off for obvious reasons >:) )

  237. Rich in NJ December 23rd, 2009 at 1:37 am

    The reason there won’t be a salary cap is that the MLBPA doesn’t want it, and they are too strong.

    There will be increasingly more onerous luxury taxes or something similar, which is the only thing keeping the Yankees from spending even more money, and it’s also why prospects are more important to them going forward than some people are currently able to understand.

  238. stuckey December 23rd, 2009 at 1:38 am

    “If that’s what short season pitchers are worth, I want more…a lot more.

    I also want a top mL system so the organization has options for all contingencies.

    Chapman can help make that a reality.”

    You’re missing the trees for the forest.

    Chapman would not effect – positively or negatively – the Yankees ability or willingness to include a prospect in a trade, which WAS the premise of your post. He’d be a “prospect” in name only. He’d effectively be a major league pitcher getting his legs under him in the minors.

    You suggested it was “imperative” he be signed to address a problem HE wouldn’t affect.

    That’s not to say he wouldn’t be worth signing. And I’m not arguing against his signing. I’m saying he wouldn’t affect the thing you said made it “imperative” he be signed.

    Whether the Yankees determine he is worthy of the necessary investment, has NOTHING to do with yesterday’s transaction.

    One has nothing to do with one another, is the point. NOT that they shouldn’t sign him.

  239. OT December 23rd, 2009 at 1:38 am

    “I just think that the Yankees do business so differently than any other team in the league rules are going to be enacted to stop them from doing this.”

    I think this is why Cash and Hal are trying so hard to get the payroll under control… remember how much outrage there was last year after we signed Tex? Owners and GMs were furious.

  240. Yank1 December 23rd, 2009 at 1:38 am

    Will Girardi take Vasquez to the All-Star game this year?

  241. crawdaddy December 23rd, 2009 at 1:39 am

    “Vizcaino was a significant loss. It makes it almost imperative to sign Chapman.”

    He’s only a significant loss if he continues his progression as a prospect. The odds are still against him being a ML pitcher. In the meantime, the Yankees will have ample opportunity to replace him with or without Chapman.

  242. lenNY's Yankees December 23rd, 2009 at 1:42 am

    Chad,

    I like how you included the link to the Braves side. It makes sense not to write about how the trade affects the Braves (because they’re in another league). But it’s still nice to see how the other side feels about the trade.

    Keep up the good work!

  243. PittsburghYankeeFan December 23rd, 2009 at 1:45 am

    G Love

    I’m with you on some sort of severe Yankee penalty.

    Right now it’s 29 owners against the Yankees and the players union. I’m sure MLB strategy at this point is to try to drive a little bit of a wedge between the union and the Yankees. Convincing the players that the Yankees are now controlling the top salaries is a way to start.

    A cap would be tough. A floor with a really severe tax on spending over a limit (say 200% of the excess, as an example), combined with a severe tax on more than 1-2 type A signings per season would be a start. The union would initially strike, perhaps, but over time, and hopefully before the start of the 2012 season, this could be resolved.

    Get your guys while the gettings good. Holliday now, Lee in 2011, re-up Mo and Jeter, and hang on for the ride.

  244. Jeremy December 23rd, 2009 at 1:46 am

    I don’t know why the owners get mad at the Yankees. Some of them have more money that the Steinbrenner family so spend the money on the team and try to win or just shut up !

    I can’t stand some of these other teams complaining about the system and how it’s not fair.

  245. DaSaint007 December 23rd, 2009 at 1:46 am

    154 GAMES, 13HR, 68RBI, .274AVG, .336OBP .416SLG .752OPS
    156 GAMES, 15HR, 68RBI, .305AVG, 364OBP .452SLG .816OPS

    Top stats are Melky.
    Bottom stats are Crawford.

    The kid has come a long way. Has he regressed a bit, sure, but there’s still upside in my opinion. Only time will tell…

    Good night.

  246. PittsburghYankeeFan December 23rd, 2009 at 1:48 am

    OT

    Getting the payroll down $10-20 million isn’t buying you any friends right now. The other 29 clubs hate your guts, and nothing is changing that.

    The issue is that if you exceed the tax cap in 2012 and beyond, you’re really screwed. This is going to make negotiations with Jeter and Mo at the end of 2010 very interesting.

  247. raymagnetic December 23rd, 2009 at 1:50 am

    Owners are pleased when the Yankees are good. A good Yankee team is good for baseball.

    When the Yankees are good more fans show up in other arenas and owners make more money.

    There’s a reason why the Yankees are discussed so much on ESPN, hate them or love them they are an extremely popular team.

  248. Jeremy December 23rd, 2009 at 1:52 am

    The other teams are going to hate the Yankees even if they have a lower payroll because of the history of the Yankees and their dominance in baseball.

  249. Rich in NJ December 23rd, 2009 at 1:53 am

    “You’re missing the trees for the forest.
    Chapman would not effect – positively or negatively – the Yankees ability or willingness to include a prospect in a trade, which WAS the premise of your post. He’d be a “prospect” in name only. He’d effectively be a major league pitcher getting his legs under him in the minors.”

    I don’t think you can see the trees.

    You have no idea how long it would take Chapman to be ML ready, and neither do I.

    “You suggested it was “imperative” he be signed to address a problem HE wouldn’t affect.”

    Huh? I said that when you lose prospects, and you have the opportunity to add prospects, you do it, and you have offered nothing to rebut that.

    “That’s not to say he wouldn’t be worth signing. And I’m not arguing against his signing. I’m saying he wouldn’t affect the thing you said made it “imperative” he be signed.”

    You can keep saying it, but you would still he wrong.

    Chapman could be in the mL system for a year, maybe more, maybe less. If he then becomes a part of the ML rotation, that’s one less spot for another pitcher in the system. That pitcher then becomes redundant. As a result, he can be made available for a trade because there would be less of a need for him.

    So your point that

    “Chapman would not effect – positively or negatively – the Yankees ability or willingness to include a prospect in a trade.”

    is demonstrably false.

    “Whether the Yankees determine he is worthy of the necessary investment, has NOTHING to do with yesterday’s transaction.
    One has nothing to do with one another, is the point. NOT that they shouldn’t sign him.”

    I have already disproved this point.

  250. Rich in NJ December 23rd, 2009 at 1:54 am

    DaSaint007

    You failed to include defense or SB which make Crawford a much, much better player than Melky.

  251. stuckey December 23rd, 2009 at 1:55 am

    Randyhater,

    Not going to argue with anything you said, other than I was 100% behind the Rivera signing.

    But I will add this. If you acknowledge your conclusions are based on emotional response, and personal observation, I’d be careful in concluding how players you’ve watched every game for years stack up against players you probably have not.

    You cite Damon’s AB against Lidge, but we KNOW Nick Johnson’s STRENGTH is seeing pitches and drawing walks. If memory serves, Damon fouled off a few borderline “strikes” in that AB. Johnson might have gotten to first a few pitches earlier.

    But that’s not really the point. I can’t speak definitely about Granderson because I have not seen him regularly.

    I also acknowledge and believe in “intangibles”, but I have no reason to be convinced the new guys won’t bring their own, different intangibles with them.

    I’m just saying you’re discounting the loss of players you like because you’ve see things you’ve liked over multiple 162 games season.

    I’m confident that the new guys are going to show us all things that don’t show up statistically that we really like and will prove valuable.

    To a degree, Granderson and Johnson and even Vasquez are blind dates, as opposed to those girls you went to high school with.

    “Comfort” and “familiarity” is understandable, but I think there is value in keeping an open mind.

  252. Rich in NJ December 23rd, 2009 at 1:59 am

    “He’s only a significant loss if he continues his progression as a prospect. The odds are still against him being a ML pitcher. In the meantime, the Yankees will have ample opportunity to replace him with or without Chapman.”

    That’s why I was in favor of trading him in this deal, but again, the more high end prospects you have, the more likely it is that some of them will make it big.

    Chapman, being in a later stage of development, is more projectable, and as a result, provides a unique opportunity to replace Vizcaino.

  253. Pat M December 23rd, 2009 at 2:00 am

    Jeremy, The same owners that envy and complain about the Bronx Bombers, just love it when they come to town……I see them every season in Anaheim ( of course ) Oakland, & Seattle….And on their Inter-league games in Denver, Phoniex, and San Francisco….They not only sell out, Yankee fans pretty much are in the majority….So when the schedules come out, Many of these owners will cicle those dates in black ink…..

  254. Jeremy December 23rd, 2009 at 2:03 am

    Pat M
    Right ! Great point.

  255. stuckey December 23rd, 2009 at 2:12 am

    “You have no idea how long it would take Chapman to be ML ready, and neither do I.”

    I agree, but it’s not relevant.

    “Huh? I said that when you lose prospects, and you have the opportunity to add prospects, you do it, and you have offered nothing to rebut that.”

    You said it was imperative they add CHAPMAN. I know you’re smart enough to know that Chapman carries issues that makes him more than just a generic “prospect”.

    I’m not arguing the Yankees need to add more prospects. I’m rebutting how “imperative” it is to add this PARTICULAR prospect. You’re clearly smart enough to understand the difference.

    “Chapman could be in the mL system for a year, maybe more, maybe less. If he then becomes a part of the ML rotation, that’s one less spot for another pitcher in the system. That pitcher then becomes redundant. As a result, he can be made available for a trade because there would be less of a need for him.”

    How many openings in the major league rotation are you anticipating in the next several years?

    “I have already disproved this point.”

    Not by a long shot.

    You want to talk about the two potential draft picks the Yankees might get for Vasquez in a year, I’m with you. You want to talk about being aggressive next signing period for international free agents, I’m with you.

    But whatever the Yankees plans for signing a high-risk/high reward player to effectively a pricey major league contract should not be affected by a recent trade of a low-level minor leaguer.

    Chapman is a UNIQUE situation, not even similar to a first-round signing you need to determine a bonus slot for. And has to be regarded as such.

  256. randyhater December 23rd, 2009 at 2:20 am

    Stuckey,

    Why get blind dates when the dates you know have proven themselves ready, willing and able?

    I just don’t understand the need to flip the script on a team that won 103 games and the WS, particularly when the new guys (Granderson/NJ) aren’t appreciably better (statistically or otherwise) and haven’t yet proven themselves in NY. Especially when the premium paid for one of them could have been better used in a package for a pitcher (hallyday?) thereby avoiding the need to revisit Vazquez, a guy we’ve already dated and found lacking in every way.

  257. PittsburghYankeeFan December 23rd, 2009 at 2:22 am

    Guys

    The other owners love it when the Yankees come to town, but they still want to compete. They want it both ways.

    A baseball team is generally an ego buy for these guys. Make money? For these guys?

    A few are in over their heads financially–usually the other owners can sniff these guys out. Occasionally one slips through.

    A few right now were OK 10-20 years ago, but time and finances have passed them by–I’ll use my hometown team as a good example. They should sell their team, but ego won’t let them.

    A few used linear principles and thinking to get very wealthy, and they apply that to everything they do, including their hobbies. They think they are right about everything, want control of every variable, and these are the guys who are pushing for a cap. Can’t do anything but outnumber them and convince them that their stance will likely ruin it for everyone.

    A few are sneaky SOBs who got their wealth that way, and want to screw the others–they want a cap, but with loopholes that benefit them. These guys are known to the other owners, and are watched.

    The rarest of the rare are those who run the team like entrepreneurs, putting everything back into the team, taking risks along the way. They don’t care what the other guys think of them. They just want to win, and if they fail spectacularly, they get up and try again. We are lucky to have this kind of ownership and a situation able to support it.

    Life, however, is going to get a lot harder for the Yankees after 2011.

  258. Clare December 23rd, 2009 at 2:23 am

    Pat M.,

    You are so right, and some teams jack up the prices for the Yankee games, or make you buy a package of other games in order to get tickets to see the Yanks.

    The most expensive tickets I ever bought to a Yankee game (in the resale market) was when they played in Houston in 08. Those tickets were just crazy.

  259. no.27 December 23rd, 2009 at 2:24 am

    The Yankees said they wouldn’t be able to sign CC, AJ, and Teixiera and then signed them.

    That doesn’t mean that everytime the Yankees say they aren’t interested in a free agent they are going to sign them. Last year when I was arguing that the Yankees would be making a huge mistake in not signing Teixeira, most people on this website were saying that there was no way it would happen.

    Now, it’s completely the opposite. The difference is, that the Yankees lineup is in MUCH better shape and they have even more money tied up. It’s like the twilight zone. When the Yankees need a hitter, no one thinks they’ll sign one. When they don’t need a hitter, everyone thinks its inevitable he’ll be a Yankee.

    Cashman is quoted in this topic as saying that, “the left field market is a lot fuller than the starting pitching market.” Last year Abreu was signed for $5M. Adam Dunn was signed for $20M over 2 years. This year Damon will be signed for very little compared to what Damon will command. Left fielders that are very good at hitting will be available every year for very little compared to what Holliday will sign for.

    How many really’s do the Yankees need on their really really really good lineup?

    And don’t compare Halladay to Holliday. Halladay is the best pitcher in baseball. The Yankees budget with Halladay has nothing to do with the Yankees budget with Holliday.

  260. no.27 December 23rd, 2009 at 2:29 am

    “154 GAMES, 13HR, 68RBI, .274AVG, .336OBP .416SLG .752OPS
    156 GAMES, 15HR, 68RBI, .305AVG, 364OBP .452SLG .816OPS

    Top stats are Melky.
    Bottom stats are Crawford.

    The kid has come a long way. Has he regressed a bit, sure, but there’s still upside in my opinion. Only time will tell…

    Good night.”

    Don’t include stolen bases. That would screw this argument up.

  261. Rich in NJ December 23rd, 2009 at 2:32 am

    “I agree, but it’s not relevant”

    You said: “He’d be a “prospect” in name only”

    Which is it?

    “You said it was imperative they add CHAPMAN. I know you’re smart enough to know that Chapman carries issues that makes him more than just a generic “prospect”.”

    I’m having this pointless debate, so I’m not sure that’s true.

    He has been compared to Strasburg. That still makes him a prospect, albeit a high end one. But still one that can affect what they do with other prospects because of the depth he would provide in the system.

    “I’m not arguing the Yankees need to add more prospects. I’m rebutting how “imperative” it is to add this PARTICULAR prospect. You’re clearly smart enough to understand the difference.”

    Again, I don’t think I am because I keep wasting my time with you.

    Any top talent that can be obtained merely for what the Yankees have in abundance: MONEY, is an IMPERATIVE, especially after they have subtracted Kennedy, Coke, Vizcaino, and Dunn from the system.

    Simpy put:

    More = good, More top quality = very good

    “How many openings in the major league rotation are you anticipating in the next several years?”

    As fragile as pitchers can be, I’m not smart enough to know. If you know, call Cashman.

    “Not by a long shot.”

    Heh.

    “Chapman is a UNIQUE situation, not even similar to a first-round signing you need to determine a bonus slot for. And has to be regarded as such.”

    Yup, if you have a top five pick. When was the last time the Yankees had one? That’s right, the early ’90s.

    If they sign Chapman, it’s as if they have one.

    I-M-P-E-R-A-T-I-V-E

    Why? Opportunity costs.

  262. Jeremy December 23rd, 2009 at 2:32 am

    A salary cap will never happen ! NEVER HAPPEN !!!

    So stop with the talk ! Nothing will stop the Yankees and the Players Union and large market teams will never approve one.

  263. akamgkrebs December 23rd, 2009 at 2:33 am

    “154 GAMES, 13HR, 68RBI, .274AVG, .336OBP .416SLG .752OPS
    156 GAMES, 15HR, 68RBI, .305AVG, 364OBP .452SLG .816OPS

    Top stats are Melky.
    Bottom stats are Crawford.

    The kid has come a long way. Has he regressed a bit, sure, but there’s still upside in my opinion. Only time will tell…

    Good night.”

    Don’t include stolen bases. That would screw this argument up
    ==========================================================

    or the 96 Runs, compared to melky’s 66

  264. Pat M December 23rd, 2009 at 2:58 am

    Has the dust settled yet ????

  265. Anthony Murillo December 23rd, 2009 at 3:02 am

    The Yankees won a World Series without a ‘legit’ Centerfielder, they can win another without a ‘legit’ Left Fielder. In my opinion, sign a productive bat for LF to a 1 year deal. Whoever that maybe is just keeping the position warm until Crawford arrives in 2011

  266. Jerkface December 23rd, 2009 at 3:05 am

    The Yankees won a World Series without a ‘legit’ Centerfielder, they can win another without a ‘legit’ Left Fielder. In my opinion, sign a productive bat for LF to a 1 year deal. Whoever that maybe is just keeping the position warm until Crawford arrives in 2011

    They won a WS without one sure, but why does that guarantee they would do it again? Reasoning like that boggles my mind. The yankees need to get as good as they can in as many areas as they are able with the resources available.

    Right now pitching 1-5 and 6-11/12 are great. Lineup is solid. Bench is ok. We just need a LFer. Anyone who could provide an upgrade over Gardner/Hoffman would push the yankees over the top.

    Mystery LFer + Granderson + Johnson > Damon + matsui + melky

  267. Kyle Y December 23rd, 2009 at 3:06 am

    I think our next move is for Mark DeRosa. Small deal, versatile player. We’ll see though, eh?

  268. Anthony Murillo December 23rd, 2009 at 3:11 am

    Jerkface,

    This Yankee team is a strong one. They’ve improved in the Centerfield position, improved in starting rotation, the bull pen looks promising, and the line up is loaded. Nick Johnson will be a solid DH. The least of our worries should be acquiring a LF.

    Do you really want to see the Yankees give Jason Bay a 5 year contract? I really don’t. That’s just asking for trouble. Matt Holliday would be a nice piece added to the Yankees, but again it would be at the expense of locking up a player long term for signficant money.

    The Yankees will acquire a passable left fielder. We’ll live.

  269. dee December 23rd, 2009 at 3:14 am

    Wasn’t it mentioned last night that Cash was working 2 or 3 deals? Maybe one of them was for a Left Fielder.

  270. Anthony Murillo December 23rd, 2009 at 3:15 am

    The Royals do value Gardner, at least I read that somewhere.

    David DeJesus as a possible target? I know he’s been mentioned on here before.

  271. dee December 23rd, 2009 at 3:15 am

    “David DeJesus as a possible target? I know he’s been mentioned on here before.”

    What would KC want in return though? We’re running out of pieces! lol

  272. Anthony Murillo December 23rd, 2009 at 3:17 am

    Depends on how badly they want Brett Gardner I suppose.

  273. Pat M December 23rd, 2009 at 3:29 am

    Yankee depth chart is getting very thin in the outfield area, don’t you think ???? Melky’s gone, Jackson is gone…..They’re going to the free agent route for a leftfielder

  274. Nick D. December 23rd, 2009 at 3:52 am

    “David DeJesus as a possible target? I know he’s been mentioned on here before.”
    What would KC want in return though? We’re running out of pieces! lol

    —–

    We have no idea because this is a product solely of this blog. No official rumor about this yet.

  275. Special K December 23rd, 2009 at 4:30 am

    Lineup:
    Derek Jeter SS
    Nick Johnson DH
    Mark Teixeira 1B
    Alex Rodriguez 3B
    Jorge Posada C
    Curtis Granderson CF
    Nick Swisher RF
    Robinson Cano 2B
    Brett Gardner LF

    Rotation:
    CC Sabathia
    AJ Burnett
    Javier Vazquez
    Andy Pettitte
    Phil Hughes

    Bullpen:
    7th- David Robertson, Damaso Marte
    8th- Joba Chamberlain
    9th- Mariano Rivera

    I’m literally drooling…

  276. Carl December 23rd, 2009 at 4:49 am

    Special K

    Javier is ya number 4

  277. Special K December 23rd, 2009 at 4:53 am

    Well once you get passed week 1 of the MLB season, the order is jumbled up anyway.

    I was just reluctant to put a guy who was 4th in Cy Young voting, had 230+ Ks and posted a modest 2.87 ERA as my fourth starter.

    Not a bad argument to have though…

  278. Crawdaddy December 23rd, 2009 at 4:55 am

    “Life, however, is going to get a lot harder for the Yankees after 2011.”

    I’m not so sure about that. They might adjust the luxury tax formula, but then they’ll have to adjust the revenue sharing too or even eliminate it because the larger revenue teams will depend that as a concession. Those smaller revenue teams depend on that shared revenue from the Yanks, Sox and what have you. I don’t believe a salary cap will come out of the 2011 CBA because too many teams are making money and having labor peace is best.

  279. Crawdaddy December 23rd, 2009 at 4:57 am

    Personally, I think Cashman is done trading except for maybe Gaudin or Mitre which would a salary dump more than anything else. He’ll go the free agent route to address his LF situation.

  280. Roger(live from Amsterdam) December 23rd, 2009 at 6:20 am

    Any idea what DeRosa is asking?or Byrd?

  281. sunny615 December 23rd, 2009 at 7:53 am

    I believe as last I read, the Yankees were balking ad DeRosa’s 3 year 24 mil request.

    Also, I’ve read somewhere that the Yankees had concerns regarding Arodys Vizcaino’s make up. Something about either he’s a bit of a slacker or hasn’t shown that he is really trying…?

  282. ANSKY December 23rd, 2009 at 8:00 am

    Now that they have a 4th reliable starter in place, and Joba/Phil are set fight for the last available spot in the rotation, I wonder they might give the Wanger a chance to work his way back.

    They’d offer him less buckage that he’d have been making if he never got hurt, of course. He might come cheaper than Sheets or Deuscherer. But if he takes it, it’ll be interesting to see if he’d start the year in AAA and make a come back.

    Hey if the price is cheap enough, why not sign two of the three and see what happens?

    (I’d rather they make a move for Holliday instead)

    Two years ago whoda thunk of Wang as a rebound project?

  283. RMEL December 23rd, 2009 at 8:03 am

    “Parting with Cabrera was not painful to the Yankees because they believe Brett Gardner can replace him as the starting left fielder. Gardner is a strong defensive player with exceptional speed whose .345 on-base percentage was better than the league average. The Cubs, the Chicago White Sox, Kansas City and San Diego have tried to trade for him this winter.”

    That was from TYLER KEPNER and I believe the Yankees agree with that

  284. jpb1973 December 23rd, 2009 at 8:06 am

    Leaving such a hole in left field is a clear message to Carl Crawford…”Don’t resign with the Rays, Carl. We have a home for you here in the Bronx”.

    The Yankees will fill LF with some crumbs this year and save the money for Crawford in next year’s FA class.

  285. Frank December 23rd, 2009 at 8:07 am

    Ansky:

    I really wonder now whether Wang will be back with the Yankees. First of all, I think some teams may offer him a straight major league deal, which the Yankees have not. Secondly, with the pitching set up the way it is for the Yankees right now, Wang has to wonder where his opportunities lie. Short of being offered a two year deal, Wang is pitching for his next contract in 2010. I think there are plenty of places he can sign that will afford him the opportunity to slide right into the rotation upon completion of his rehab. I don’t see that opportunity available to him here unless someone or several someones are injured and/or ineffective.

  286. DaSaint007 December 23rd, 2009 at 8:08 am

    Good Morning All,

    By showing Melky’s and Crawford’s numbers, I wasn’t saying that Melky was as good as Crawford. I’m aware that I didn’t include SBs and Runs, etc. But what I was showing was how relatively productive the kid was as an indication that he could improve. I’d much rather have Crawford on this team, as I’ve said for the last couple weeks as we’ve discussed Holliday.

  287. DaSaint007 December 23rd, 2009 at 8:10 am

    And no. 27, there is no ‘argument’ to screw up. Read the posts carefully.

  288. Betsy - high on pie December 23rd, 2009 at 8:15 am

    Rich, who is that rival executive? He should be fired on the spot, lol. Ken Rosenthal doesn’t think think that’s a crazy idea? Yeah – young and hugely talented pitchers come through a farm system every day. Let’s just have every team put their kids in the pen – they’ll all have rotations built on the shoulders of middle relievers.

  289. ANSKY December 23rd, 2009 at 8:15 am

    Giving a pitcher a rank of 1-5 on the team is less important than the strategies or matchups the order produces.

    If you go with Vazquez 4th, you can start CC (lefty) AJ (righty) Pettitte (lefty) Vazquez (righty) in order then pick your righty Joba or Phil.

    Another few ways to look at it is … the kind of pitchers each guy is, or … (in life after Scott Proctor) how many innings each starter is likely to go before the bullpen, or … (like w/Joba Rules last year) if someone has a season innings limit you pitch them 5th.

    Which to consider at different points in the season? Lots of things to think about, including who’s hot, who’s not, who’s doing well or not, who’s healthy or not, who the opponents are and how they’re doing. But that’s Girardi’s job, not mine. He can mix & match pretty well.

  290. sunny615 December 23rd, 2009 at 8:15 am

    Sorry – DeRosa was asking for a 3 year $18-$21 mil range – but Carfardo believes that price has come down recently…

    Marlon Byrd’s asking price is tied to Mike Cameron and Rick Ankiel’s numbers some believe altho I haven’t found any specific numbers. He’s also is a type B free agent and would give the Rangers a supplemental pick. Also, Byrd has really only had one good year and hit better in the hitter’s park that is Ranger’s park than on the road… he’d be a meh signing.

  291. blake December 23rd, 2009 at 8:17 am

    Again I ask..why would the Yankees wait a year to sign a lesser player in Crawford when they can sign Holliday this year and maybe even get him cheaper than Crawford would cost next year. The core will be a year older next year as well which should be considered..

  292. Matt December 23rd, 2009 at 8:17 am

    It was said by one poster yesterday that Javy Vasquez was just another Pavano. To that I say ….. BS !
    He’s thrown a consistent 200 innings each year. In 2004 he developed some shoulder soreness (Torreaitis) in the 2nd half of that year but said nothing and tried to pitch through it feeling the staff needed help. With pitchers like Estaban Loiaza and Kevin Brown being undependable, he felt like he should step up.

  293. sunny615 December 23rd, 2009 at 8:19 am

    The Yankees were interested in Lee, but the asking price from the Phillies was stud prospect Jesus Montero, Joba Chamberlain or Phil Hughes and several prospects.

    via George King…

    seriously? Montero, Hughes/Joba, and SEVERAL prospects???

  294. ANSKY December 23rd, 2009 at 8:23 am

    Frank

    Yeah it’ll be interesting to see how it works out with Wang or the other big come back projects. I think Yanks will take a chance on one of them if they can get it done on the cheap but it’s nearly impossible to tell who it’ll be. Seeing Wang back would be nice but as you point out there are likely other teams that are in a position to promise him something more certain.

    If they’re going to take on a come back project (and of course only if he were willing) he would be a good risk for the Yanks to take though.

  295. mick December 23rd, 2009 at 8:24 am

    ridiculous. I don’t hold Yankee fans in the highest estimation – I predict JV will get booed on Opening Day.
    ==========================================================
    Sometimes I wonder if you are a Yankee fan, Betsy.
    You spew such hate toward the team and their decisions and sound like the 1st one to boo a player, except your favorites.
    Why even bring up booing someone like Javy Vasquez? He’s not Arod. Arod is in a different class. Stop the negativity, you’re not the only one who finds fault, but as some people have said, have the guts to respond to people who think you are negative, with intelligent answers and not just, “I don’t care what people think of me.”

  296. Betsy - high on pie December 23rd, 2009 at 8:28 am

    I believe that about Gardner as much as I believe pigs can fly…….

    The players will strike before there’s ever a cap – there won’t be one.

    I’m sorry to lose Vizcaino, but I absolutely, 100% agree with GLove. Cashman is very reluctant to trade great prospects – I’m sure it stung a little to have him trade Vizcaino, but he’s looking at a team that has a great chance to win again. He’d be foolish not to take it. The man is a terrific GM – he’s got to strike a balance between winning now and building for the future. That’s almost impossible to do as they are mutually exclusive. Yet, Cash is doing that. Joba or Phil in the rotation this year, the other next year (and the loser needs to go to AAA or be a middle reliever, but that’s another story.

    If Vasquez pitches well, who’s to say we don’t re-sign him anyway?

  297. Frank December 23rd, 2009 at 8:31 am

    “He’s thrown a consistent 200 innings each year.”

    This is where his real value lies. The 200 is a virtual lock and it takes pressure off both his fellow starters and the pen. He’s probably going to post an ERA over 4, but he’ll still be good for 15+ wins and those innings.

  298. Christina25 December 23rd, 2009 at 8:33 am

    The Phillies GM is not the Diamondbacks or the Braves GM. Did you think that they would give him for peanuts?

  299. Patrick December 23rd, 2009 at 8:36 am

    “via George King…
    seriously? Montero, Hughes/Joba, and SEVERAL prospects???”

    Another case where a team demands far more from the Yankees than what they end up getting.

  300. pat December 23rd, 2009 at 8:37 am

    Buster Olney said on ESPN, the Yankees magic number is “under $200 million dollars” and the only way Damon is back is on a deal for something like 1/$5M.

    Other interesting thing he said is Vazquez may have been moved for salary relief so they can get into the Bay sweepstakes because they are still looking for offense. Ouch for the Mets if that be the case.

    I heard Cashman on MLB Network last night and the free agent signing they were referring to was Nick Johnson, not a left fielder. Cash said you guys have talked about our FA announcement but we havene’t so any announcement from us is really just crossing t’s and dotting i’s.

  301. Rick December 23rd, 2009 at 8:37 am

    I may be wrong but once Cashman acquired Vasquez, the pitching staff is set as compared to a week ago when most talk was about Sheets and Dushscherer.
    Even though nobody ever knows what the stealth Cashman is thinking, he may have dropped any ideas of a Boras client (Holliday and Damon)to top off the lone position of need in LF.
    He could take a lesser name for less money and years and figure it will be enough for 2010 and set his sights on Crawford and Lee a year from now.

  302. jpb1973 December 23rd, 2009 at 8:39 am

    Again I ask..why would the Yankees wait a year to sign a lesser player in Crawford when they can sign Holliday this year and maybe even get him cheaper than Crawford would cost next year. The core will be a year older next year as well which should be considered.

    ——————————————————

    The Yankees value Crawford more highly than Holliday. Crawford has strengths in more areas than Holliday (defense, baserunning, better contact hitter, etc). The Yankees have players with strength in the one area that Holliday has strength (power hitting). In short, Carl Crawford is a more disruptive force in a postseason game than Holliday.

  303. Noreaster December 23rd, 2009 at 8:40 am

    I’d be happy having Gardner and the Rule 5 guy out in left this year. Having some speed and defense in the number 9 hole isn’t a bad thing. Let the team start like it is constructed now and we can always pick up a LF piece during the season if necessary.

  304. GreenBeret7 December 23rd, 2009 at 8:43 am

    mick
    December 23rd, 2009 at 8:24 am
    ridiculous. I don’t hold Yankee fans in the highest estimation – I predict JV will get booed on Opening Day.
    ==========================================================
    Sometimes I wonder if you are a Yankee fan, Betsy.
    You spew such hate toward the team and their decisions and sound like the 1st one to boo a player, except your favorites.

    ***Why even bring up booing someone like Javy Vasquez? He’s not Arod. Arod is in a different class.***

    Stop the negativity, you’re not the only one who finds fault, but as some people have said, have the guts to respond to people who think you are negative, with intelligent answers and not just, “I don’t care what people think of me.”

    ————————————————————

    If people are stupid enough to boo Rodriguez because of 2004, they’re stupid enough to boo anybody.

    Perhaps they should look at those more responsible for 2004 than Rodriguez or Vazquez. Betsu is correct. There will be plenty of idiots proving this point and on this board during his first bad game.

  305. Betsy - high on pie December 23rd, 2009 at 8:46 am

    http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....-up-122209

    I don’t think I quite agree because the Os, Jays and Rays all have significant young talent, but it is hard to beat teams with young talent, smarts and $$$

  306. MaineYankee December 23rd, 2009 at 8:48 am

    I find it quite funny that the Yankees are the WS winners but when they make a trade it is to counter a move the RS made. I guess the goal is to try to be the runner up. :lol:

  307. Betsy - high on pie December 23rd, 2009 at 8:48 am

    Cash is going to have to dig deep to find a decent LF – I doubt he makes another trade as we’ve already traded some nice young talent.

  308. Tamerlane December 23rd, 2009 at 8:50 am

    DeJesus is a Rutgers man! I used to watch him play in college. Someone called him a Brooklyn native but I believe he actually grew up in Middletown NJ.

  309. YankeeFan4Eva December 23rd, 2009 at 8:52 am

    I like this Vasquez move. He can give 200 innings. He has a better offense and defense behind him that if he gives up 3-4 runs it wont matter. That is why he is a #4 but that is arguably because he can be considered a #3. Left field will pan out, whomever it will be doesn’t matter at this point because who ever they sign will be good enough. We can’t have everything but we have a good enough team to get into the playoffs again. Let Cashman do his thing as we are not GM’s. Theres a difference in what we want and what he can get and I am more than positive that he will get someone good enough for LF.

  310. GreenBeret7 December 23rd, 2009 at 8:54 am

    MaineYankee
    December 23rd, 2009 at 8:48 am
    I find it quite funny that the Yankees are the WS winners but when they make a trade it is to counter a move the RS made. I guess the goal is to try to be the runner up.

    ————————————————————

    When a WS winner trades up, it’s never good for the also rans.

  311. Nap December 23rd, 2009 at 8:55 am

    Miggs, you’re good, man. Are you a nationally syndicated media person?

  312. MaineYankee December 23rd, 2009 at 8:56 am

    Betsy

    Would you think Cashman could get a LF in the way he got Swisher last year? He didn’t give up much for a usefull player.

  313. Doreen - Ain't it Just "Grand"? December 23rd, 2009 at 8:57 am

    People booed LaTroy Hawkins for having the nerve to wear the “wrong” number. I don’t find it too far-fetched to believe that there will be people in attendance at Yankee Stadium in Vazquez’ first home start who will boo him for something that happened over 5 years ago. There are some very ignorant people out there.

    I like what Javy had to say, though, about not having wanted to leave here in the first place and about being glad to get a second opportunity to pitch in NY. I’m rooting for him all the way.

  314. GreenBeret7 December 23rd, 2009 at 8:57 am

    Tamerlane
    December 23rd, 2009 at 8:50 am
    DeJesus is a Rutgers man! I used to watch him play in college. Someone called him a Brooklyn native but I believe he actually grew up in Middletown NJ.

    ————————————————————

    Being from the NY area doesn’t make him the best choice. Exactly who do you propose to trade for this superstar? They’re in no need of giving him away.

  315. MaineYankee December 23rd, 2009 at 9:00 am

    GB7

    My take is that others are trying to make their fans think they are relevant while trying to make the Yankees look weak. Perception versus reality.

  316. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 23rd, 2009 at 9:05 am

    “I’d be happy having Gardner and the Rule 5 guy out in left this year. Having some speed and defense in the number 9 hole isn’t a bad thing. Let the team start like it is constructed now and we can always pick up a LF piece during the season if necessary”
    —————————————————–

    this is the most intelligent post, in the last 2 days

  317. GreenBeret7 December 23rd, 2009 at 9:06 am

    MaineYankee
    December 23rd, 2009 at 9:00 am
    GB7

    My take is that others are trying to make their fans think they are relevant while trying to make the Yankees look weak. Perception versus reality.

    ————————————————————

    It’s a sure sign of fear in others (teams/fans) when they either whine about payroll or trash a trade or signing by the Yanks. I love fear.

  318. MTU December 23rd, 2009 at 9:18 am

    Just getting caught up on last nights posts.

    A few random thoughts in passing:

    G.Love, Pitt, Saint, Blake-
    though I dont always agree with you.
    I just wanted to take this opportunity to thank the 4 of you
    for bringing some crisp reasoning and cogency to the board.

    Props to all of you.

    The Lucky Men:

    Hal – for inheriting his father’s vision and passion for winning, and his checkbook.

    Cash- To have the opportunity to achieve GrandMaster status
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