Another homecoming: Vazquez returns
Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Dec 22, 2009 
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I mentioned in my post on the “mystery pitcher” last night that Javier Vazquez was a realistic option and now there are a few reports that Vazquez is squarely on the Yankees radar. A few interesting notes about a potential reunion with Vazquez:
• The Yankees once traded Nick Johnson (and others) to get Vazquez. Now they could end up with both on the same team.
• Despite his up-and-down time with the Yankees, Vazquez had no interest in playing anywhere but the East coast. He was very uncomfortable living in Arizona and has a limited no-trade clause that allows him to veto deals to the AL and NL West divisions. With family still living in Puerto Rico, Vazquez is happy on the East coast.
• The Yankees would be getting Vazquez with only one year remaining on his contract (so not a long-term obligation) and coming off a terrific year in which he went 15-10 with a 2.87 ERA and 238 strikeouts for the Braves. He finished fourth in NY Cy Young voting.
• Despite suffering from a terrible case of pink eye during the 2004 season – I remember having to write about it and wanting to stay far away – Vazquez has been healthy. He’s pitched 200-plus innings each of the five years since leaving New York and his 198 in 2004 is the only season of the last 10 in which he didn’t top that threshold. Not bad for someone who is supposed to be a middle-to-back-of-the-rotation starter in New York.
Fans will always remember Vazquez for his awful performance in Game 7 of the 2004 ALCS – and to be fair, that’s pretty hard to forget – but bringing him this winter makes sense on a lot of levels. With a rotation of CC, AJ, Pettitte, Vazquez and Hughes/Chamberlain (with the other one going to the bullpen), the Yankees pitching staff is formidable.
UPDATE, 9:40 a.m.: Sounds like the Yankees are shipping Melky Cabrera, LHP Mike Dunn and a lesser prospect to Atlanta for Vazquez and LHP Boone Logan (stats here). Interesting to see that Dunn is in the deal after the Yankees were determined to keep him out of the Granderson trade (though Logan, who they get coming back, is also a lefty). Can’t say I’m surprised to see Melky go. You had to figure either he or Gardner wouldn’t be around after the Granderson deal.
Initial reaction: Great deal for the Yankees. Strengthening starting pitching (which was clearly their last remaining weak point) for an extra OF and prospects while not sacrificing long-term financial flexibility is a coup for Brian Cashman.
UPDATE, 9:51 a.m.: Don’t forget that Yankees executives like president Randy Levine were the ones leading the charge for Randy Johnson after the 2004 season – Levine, not Cashman was the one who literally negotiated with Arizona – so it wasn’t as if Cashman was the one running Vazquez out of town originally. Cashman always liked him.
Also, this move seems to indicate that the Yankees are only interested in having one of the “kids” in the starting rotation this year. After years of debate, this may well be the end of the starter or reliever debate for Joba Chamberlain.
UPDATE, 10:02 a.m.: For the bargain price of Melky, Mike Dunn and (apparently) the other A-Rod, Arodys Vizcaino, Cashman has:
1. Given the Yankees rotation incredible depth.
2. Likely pushed the Yankees toward a resolution on the Joba to the pen question.
3. Retained financial flexibility for next offseason and beyond (Vazquez’s contract is up after 2010).
4. Relieved a glut of extra outfielders.
Not bad for one move. And no, I don’t believe for a second that Brett Gardner will be anywhere in the Yankees Opening Day outfield.
UPDATE, 10:10 a.m.: So who’s in left for the Yankees now? Obviously Johnny Damon is still out there but I think that ship has sailed (though, you never say never). Matt Holliday? Jason Bay?
Put it this way: This was a strong move for Cashman to make because it is WAY easier to find a reasonable option in left field than it is to find a starting pitcher – let alone one who finished fourth in Cy Young voting a year ago and offers an appealing contract. In essence, Cashman solved one problem (pitching) while not greatly changing another (left field was an issue even with Melky on the team).
UPDATE, 10:35 a.m.: Some (of many) outfield options: Holliday (obviously), Bay (obviously), Mark DeRosa, Jermaine Dye, Marlon Byrd, Randy Winn, Rick Ankiel and – of course – Johnny Damon.
Yeah, yeah…
Don’t trade Swisher for Javy.
Cabrera OK but not Swish.
And get Damon back too.
SI_JonHeyman
#yankees, #braves deal will send vazquez, boone logan to ny for melky, lhp mike dunn and a prospect. si.com story up soon
He seems to follow good years with bad ones. The Yanks are also working on getting an OF who can hit.
SI_JonHeyman #yankees, #braves deal will send vazquez, boone logan to ny for melky, lhp mike dunn and a prospect. si.com story up soon
1 minute ago from web
melky and mike dunn for javy and boone logan
Javy would fit in the rotation, but at what cost to Phil/Joba
one of the would be odd man out. My preference is for Phil to be stretched out as a starter.
oy.
OMG – I am first & actually stunned and don’t know what to say. Really don’t have aenough experience with Vasquez to give a good judgement.
Dave
December 22nd, 2009 at 9:37 am
Yeah, yeah…
Don’t trade Swisher for Javy.
Cabrera OK but not Swish.
And get Damon back too.
*********************
Dave, Rosenthal tweeted that the Braves’ target is Melky.
Vazquez is not a bad choice for the back of the rotation. With only one year left on his contract, wouldn’t Swisher be a high price to pay?
Vaz is a much better pitcher than he was last time through NY.
The Yankees have agreed to trade Melky Cabrera, Mike Dunn and a minor leaguer to the Braves for Javier Vazquez and Boone Logan.
Blogging Bombers
checking Vasquez’s stat’s he really is a strange pitcher. His periperhals have always been outstanding, but his ERA doesn’t match. Last year in Atlanta, being an exception. That said, would much rather have him over Lowe
Well, I was first when I started typing. Wow are you guys fast.
Erica might be getting her christmas wish afterall
Uh oh. Somebody better go console Cano.
Sam, would you call this substantive though? Its not a change that seems to be anything I would call big.
Maybe I’m just looking back too much and thinking about him looking underwhelming, but still, this just doesn’t seem to match up to the cone of silence that has been surrounding this.
As long as this means Holliday is coming to the Yankees I am all for it. Melky was fun to watch but he’s nothing to cry home about if traded.
Boone Logan…Can any one enlighten me on him?
You people are crazy if you don’t think getting Vazquez for Melky is a great move. I love Melky and will miss the guy but Vazquez is going to be a huge plus in this rotation as the #3 or #4 guy. He straight up strikes people out. And the idea that he is “an NL pitcher” is a bunch of garbage, he had good years in Chicago with the ChiSox. He strikes 200 guys out and pitches to a 3 or 4 ERA and he ends up winning 15 games with the Yankees in 2010 and all this whining is over nothing.
If they can’t fit Holliday in as it is, how is trading Swisher for Vazquez going to make it more affordable?
Swisher makes @7M, Vazquez makes @12M. So now the payroll is 5M higher, and they are going to add Holliday’s 17M?
If they are doing this trade for Melky, it could make some sense from a baseball perspective. But it still doesn’t appear to lead to Holliday.
I also think that Vazquez would, regardless of last season’s success, turn back into the AL pumpkin that he is.
people need to chill.
Cashman just robbed a decent pitcher, in exchange for spare parts.
robbery
Javier is actually one of two pitchers to strike out 2,000+
this decade.
The other is Randy Johnson.
Now we need a left fielder ! Matt H for Christmas ????
If this is true, I’ll miss the Melk-Man for sure, but welcome back Johnny D.
Javy Vazquez has always had a Johnny Damon connection. He gave up the grand slam to him in the ’04 ALCS Game 7, anyway… I hope he can pitch in the AL East now, because he couldn’t before.
Deal tells you 2 things:
1. Phil or Joba will be in the pen this year.
2. They aren’t done yet. They will add another OF.
Small price to pay for Vasquez. Another Cashman heist.
Javier Vasquez? That’s the Yankees answer to all the other pitching moves other teams have made? The Red Sawx got Lackey and the Yanks might get Javier Vasquez? And they let Wang walk? Did Vasquez even get an out when he was with the Yankees the first time?
I wouldn’t trade a baseball card for Javier Vasquez and I don’t own any baseball cards.
SI_JonHeyman #yankees, #braves deal will send vazquez, boone logan to ny for melky, lhp mike dunn and a prospect. si.com story up soon
So THAT’S why Cash wanted Dunn out of the Tigers deal
Steam
December 22nd, 2009 at 9:40 am
Uh oh. Somebody better go console Cano.
***********************
But he’s got lots of friends on the team-he’s very close with Alex (who I’m sure will also be very disappointed to see Melky go) They’ll survive.
Robbie will miss Melky
no one is un-touchable when it comes to the business side of baseball. Personally I’d hate to see Swisher traded just for how he seems to be a big spark for the team. But business is business.
From MLBTR. Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports tweets that it’s a two for one deal. The money is still unclear.
So who is wrong him or Heyman???
Not sure why the Yanks would want Boone Logan.
He’s a poor mans Brian Bruney.
Boone Logan ?
Oh no. Not Melky!! I know he has his detractors but I am a big fan. Cano is not going to like this.
Who is Boone Logan?
Boone Logan – RP
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....yerId=6486
“SI_JonHeyman #yankees, #braves deal will send vazquez, boone logan to ny for melky, lhp mike dunn and a prospect. si.com story up soon”
Boone Logan suck.
I imagine that the Yanks will be signing a lefty from the market.
I must repeat the transmission but I am allowed to convey one last message:
“What will happen ?”
Answer:
“Something WONDERFUL”.
“Behold, The Red Dragon”.
Message repeats:
“All these Worlds are yours”
“I give them to you”
“Use them in Peace”
End Transmission.
What is this AL pumpkin crap?! Cashman is absolutely owning this offseason. This is such a far cry from how the team operated in the earlier part of this decade, it is music to my ears.
SI_JonHeyman vazquez will be a pretty darned good 4th starter for #yankees. good job by cashman. melky is easily replaceable.
3 minutes ago from web
=================================
I will miss Melky though – you can tell he’s having fun out there
It isn’t just NY that he can’t pitch. He got lit up while with the CWS, and they did everything possible to hide him when they were in the playoffs in ’08.
The 4.1 IP, 8 hit, 6 run shellacking that he got proves that the CWS should have left him off the PS roster altogether.
This guy is an AL chump.
So the Sox get BOOF and we get BOONE?
Doesn’t this leave a bigger hole in left field?
SJ44,
definitely a steal at that price.
That Lowe deal really hurt them. They were handcuffed and the Yanks swept in and took advantage of it.
So – does this open the door for Damon’s return or a Holliday signing?
Boone Logan gives them another good lefty specialist in the pen.
No team in baseball has a #4 pitcher in baseball as good as Javy Vasquez.
From the Yankees side, it’s highway robbery.
“He’s a poor mans Brian Bruney.”
He’s left handed and can fog a mirror.
Rishi, I’ll miss Melky too, but I think I’d rather see him go than Swish.
Well according to Rosenthal he is getting reports of a 2-1 so maybe we aren’t getting Logan. Maybe just Melky/Dunn for Javy???
I personally don’t see what a lot of people are complaining about. I think this means Joba back to the pen to be groomed as Mariano’s heir, Phil in the rotation and the Yankees bring back Damon or sign Holliday.
In my opinion small price for Javy for a quality 3rd-4th starter…He doesn’t need to be the ace. I like the move!@!!!!!!
Cashman is a ninja. No doubt about it
Now let’s get Holliday.
Or do we bring back Damon?
I like Melky. We all do. He’s young and a spark. He is just likeable.
That said, at this point, we have seen 4 years of him and he is what he is. .270 hitter, 10 – 15 HRs, weak OBP, good arm. Feels like a 4th OFer. Decent, but expendable for a decent arm.
Repeat transmission:
“Behold, a Red Dragon”.
Jeter
NJ
Tex
A-Rod
Matty
Po
Grandy
Cano
Swish
End transmission.
SJ44
December 22nd, 2009 at 9:41 am
Deal tells you 2 things:
1. Phil or Joba will be in the pen this year.
2. They aren’t done yet. They will add another OF.
Small price to pay for Vasquez. Another Cashman heist.
—————————
What do you think the possibilty is of Joba starting the season in the minors? It’s pretty clear that he needs more innings under his belt and Phil is on an innings limit. Joba could be the #6 until August.
Guys, just in case you’re not checking the original post:
UPDATE, 9:40 a.m.: Sounds like the Yankees are shipping Melky Cabrera, LHP Mike Dunn and a lesser prospect to Atlanta for Vazquez and LHP Boone Logan (stats here). Interesting to see that Dunn is in the deal after the Yankees were determined to keep him out of the Granderson trade (though Logan, who they get coming back, is also a lefty). Can’t say I’m surprised to see Melky go. You had to figure either he or Gardner wouldn’t be around after the Granderson deal.
Initial reaction: Great deal for the Yankees. Strengthening starting pitching (which was clearly their last remaining weak point) for an extra OF and prospects while not sacrificing long-term financial flexibility is a coup for Brian Cashman.
Just don’t trade Joba or Phil for Javy. If he’s going to be the pitcher he’s been for most of the last 10 years, he’ll good enough as the team’s 4th or 5th best starter.
I’d be really uncomfortable with him being our 2nd best pitcher, but that’s not going to be the case.
To his credit, getting sick at the wrong time is a fluke and this year’s lineup is going to be better than 2004′s. Especially if they land Holliday.
CC, AJ, Pettitte & Vazquez. What to do about Joba & Phil? Phil has the innings limit, begin the year with him in the bullpen. Obviously, they move him up to the rotation when someone in the rotation eventually gets hurt or struggles. And if it’s Joba who struggles in the rotation, initiate the ‘Joba in the Pen’ arguments again and maybe they get flip-flopped.
Only LoHud posters could complain about getting a guy who finished 4th in the NL Cy Young race last year for basically nothing.
Also:
Fans will always remember Vazquez for his awful performance in Game 7 of the 2004 ALCS – and to be fair, that’s pretty hard to forget – but bringing him this winter makes sense on a lot of levels. With a rotation of CC, AJ, Pettitte, Vazquez and Hughes/Chamberlain (with the other one going to the bullpen), the Yankees pitching staff is formidable.
Please explain why Vasquez is a good get – he’s an NL pitcher.
Again, though – this is clearly why Cash refused to part with Dunn.
Who’s our LF?
CC
A.J.
Pettitte
Vazquez
Joba or Hughes
Vazquez is a good #2 for most teams. He’d be among the best 4/5 starters in the game.
Great deal, if true.
I assure you Sawx fans and Yankee haters will be lamenting over this one. “damn Yankees!”
I like it.
So the Yanks are adding about $9M net in payroll with this trade and need to get a LFer?
So much for cutting the payroll.
Matt Holliday is the final piece of the puzzle ( with Johnny Damon as the fall back option )…Great News !!! Details to follos…
Good Morning one and all.
As the end of my assignment grows near
I have once again consulted the Oracle last night during my slumber as I am wont to do.
I am to convey the following:
That the end is in sight.
That there is nothing to fear but fear itself
That their is joy to be found in Laughter
That their is real power in belief
And that their is courage to be found in conviction.
My task has been self-assigned
No one has asked me to do it.
Others have come before me
To do my job.
I was necessary to be:
A jester
A beacon
And finally
A gatekeeper.
It is almost done now.
It is ALL GOOD.
Soon I will forced back to the shadow.
And I wanted to convey one final Message:
“All these Worlds are yours”
“I give them to you”
“Use them in Peace”
The Oracle has spoken thru me, and I have re-learned what i almost had forgottten. It has been a pleasure.
Their cannot be any further communication.
Enjoy your passion which is Baseball.
Great trade. Absolutely stole Javy from the Braves (pending the prospect, I guess. Doubt it’s somebody big though). Logan has pretty good numbers against lefties too. Now, who will be patrolling LF? Holliday? DeRosa? Another trade?
Boone is a lefty, iirc. But the Melk man won’t be delivering for the Yankees anymore? Ouch.
I just don’t see this as substantive.
Is this to give Joba/Hughes cover to develop some more? I don’t see how both would do that when one wouldn’t be pitching the innings they would need to.
Sam,
Maybe Cash had this trade in mind and the Braves had expressed interest in Dunn?
CR9
December 22nd, 2009 at 9:43 am
Here is the way I look at it.
Javy has only 1 year on his contract, and even if he is not great, he will still be a Type A free agent.
So, in essence, we get a year of a pretty good pitcher, and 2 draft picks out of Melky Cabrera. That is not too bad.
I just hope the prospect is peanuts.
I do know one thing, Cashman actively went out and tried to better our team, and not just through Free Agency.
I would be furious if the Red Sox had landed Grandy and Vasquez for what we gave up.
Phil will be in the pen next year, count on it – yet another year wasted for him. Again, it’s not just about Phil, it’s about the Yankees developing pitching. By the time he gets his sea legs under him as a starter, he’ll be 26/27 – he should have been traded for Doc.
If Vazquez duplicates his average year in Chicago (4.40 ERA, 200 innings, 200 strikeouts), he will win double digit games with the Yankees. He is the 4th starter! This is not 2004 when he was the go-to guy, or even in Chicago when he basically was the go-to guy as well. This team is not built that way. Add Vazquez as a complimentary starter and it makes perfect sense. Plus, he is not tied up in a long-term deal, meaning Cliff Lee is still on track for 2011.
I don’t like giving up on Dunn after trading Coke. Yes Javier is for a year, but to make this deal wouldn’t you want one more controlling year? How is this that much different that giving Sheets some money even at his demands? Vasquez is owed $11 million this year. Players traded, the Yankees don’t gain back salary. Vasquez for his career is a 4.50+ era in the AL. All of this adds up to a deal that simply isn’t that exciting to me. The good part on this team he is a healthy guy who can throw 200+ innings and as a foruth starter, this offense should score him enough runs. But under the lights again is he a big game pitcher or the guy giving up the blasts in game 7 of the 2004 ALCS?
This is a freaking steal. A legit # 2, as our 4, for a 4th OF. Cash is the man. Plus it opens up a LF slot for Damon, or Holliday.
Betsy-I’ll be surprised if Hughes ends up back in the pen. I think he’ll win the 5th slot in spring training, sending Joba back to the pen. JMO.
nyp_joelsherman Key element with Vazquez II: Yanks want Hughes or Joba in rotation, not both, and can bulk up pen with other without spending more $$$
half a minute ago from web
Reply Retweet nyp_joelsherman Key element with Vazquez: #Yankees worried about hvy loads of CC, AJ and Pettitte in ’09, and Vazquez at least 198IP every yr since 2000
Betsy -high on pie
December 22nd, 2009 at 9:47 am
Please explain why Vasquez is a good get – he’s an NL pitcher.
———————
He didn’t pitch too bad with the White Sox for his 3 years there.
Maybe JD is comin back.
Damon, back, track, wall, see ya, a Johnny rocket!!!!
I wonder what Vazquez’s reaction will be to this trade…
“I told you so”??
Let’s go Yankees.
So true.
I love the “he’s an NL pitcher” garbage.
If a guy has a great arm, he has a great arm. It doesn’t disappear when he goes to the AL.
Are ERAs higher? Sure. But it’s across the board.
this obviously means Yanks are going for the moon to get Holliday, or at least bring damon back, as the full time left fielder. Where does ‘nick the stick’ hit in the order if damon comes back?
Ill miss leche! But i do like the fact that Joba can get his ass back in the bullpen, and this rumor scared me half to death because i thought Joba was gonna be traded possibly!
Transmission allowed:
For GB7
I got it jumping out of a plane !
End transmission.
There can be no further communication.
All he needs to do is throw 200 innings (which he has done the last 10 years) and put up a league average ERA (is that 4.50?).
He’ll be 33. Not young, but not ancient. He is only locked in for 1 year, at a manageable rate, and is gone next year for a draft pick, if we want. All for the cost of a likeable #4th OFer. What is not to like.
“What do you think the possibilty is of Joba starting the season in the minors?”
—————————————————
he should be. But he won’t
Good for the Yankees rotation but sad for either Joba or Phil having to go back to the pen. Not a good development for two promising pitchers. Just saying.
I am sad to see the Melkman go )=
Andrew,
bingo!!
I will miss Melky, he was one of my favorites
Interesting deal, if true. That is a pretty good 1 through 4 SP. Cashman can talk about a competition between Hughes & Joba for the #5 spot, but I don’t think Cashman leaves anything to chance. He made comments a few weeks ago on MLBTV that even he sees Joba as a different pitcher(in a good way) when he comes put of pen. I think he already has Joba ticketed for the BP and Hughes as #5.
Wow we have the best rotation in baseball. Vazquez is our number 3 is that real???
How many times is small sample size going to have to be said today?
He’s not just a NL pitcher.
For the perennially miserable on here, go through every team and find a #4 starter better than Javy. You can’t. That’s a great deal for the Yankees.
He’s a better pitcher than John Lackey and he doesn’t cost 82.5 million.
There is no chance Joba or Phil go to AAA next year.
One will be in the rotation and one will be in the pen
And the point of next year. Keep in mind Andy is a free agent as well. So doesn’t this mean they will need two starters next year thru free agency unless both Hughes and Joba pan out as starters?????? If you make a trade don’t you want to have someone under contract maybe two years instead of just grabbing a guy in free agency this year?
OK, the Yanks don’t give up much for a good NL starter. The problem is, they are going to actually have to put him on the mound to pitch against Boston, Tampa Bay, and Minnesota. Not a comforting thought.
The Phranchise
December 22nd, 2009 at 9:49 am
How is this that much different that giving Sheets some money even at his demands?
Javy actually pitches (and does it a lot) for his money. Sheets is a HUGE ?. I will agree, if healhy I would take Sheets in a heartbeat over Javy….But that “if” is a huge if
“Phil will be in the pen next year, count on it – yet another year wasted for him.”
How the hell do you know this in December?! Keep in mind that the team had 5 starters lined up in 2009 and 1 of those guys immediately stunk and was then sent to the DL. If, as you have frequently pointed out as a possibility so far this offseason Betsy, Andy Pettitte suddenly loses it completely in 2010 and looks done, or if AJ/CC/Vazquez pulls something and is out for a month or more, then you find Hughes and Chamberlain in the rotation. It’s that simple. The Yankees would now have 6 real good ML starters, which a good team looking to win 100 games and a World Series needs to have.
TylerKepner
Since Yanks traded Vazquez after 2004 ALCS, he has over 1000 innings and over 1000 strikeouts. Only other pitcher to do it: Johan Santana.
MTU
December 22nd, 2009 at 9:37 am
Repeat transmission:
“What do you see ?”
Answer:
“My G-d. It’s full of Stars !”
End Transmission.
————————————————————
That’s a pretty bad head injury that you suffered. You just ain’t right.
The only concern with Vazquez is his high home runs allowed totals.
I had a feeling it was Vazquez which is why I mentioned him yesterday. He’s a dependable innings eater that will be pitching for a brand new contract for 2011. A great deal for Cashman and the Yankees.
“He’s a better pitcher than John Lackey”
That is not even close to a true statement.
Not sure how there could be a lesser prospect than Mike Dunn.
Betsy, you seem to root for Phil more than you root for the Yankees. Hughes will be 24 next year. Some of the all time greats-Gibson, Guidry, ect., didn’t become full time starters until their age 25 season or later. If Hughes is in the ‘pen it will not ruin him.
That being said, I suspect that it will be Joba in the ‘pen and Hughes in the rotation.
nyp_joelsherman so the trade is vazquez and boone logan to #Yankees for melky cabrera, mike dunn and arodys vizcaino, that is now confirmed by Post
less than 20 seconds ago from web
Vizcaino the prospect going to the Braves per Sherman
forget new york numbers. how did javy do when he was pitching for Chicago?
So I was up last night waiting for the “big trade” and now I’m not getting any work done because of it!
I was skeptical of this at first (mostly just remembering Game 7), but the more I think about it the more I like it. This was yet another steal for Cashman. My only question now: does Damon come back, or will it be Holliday?
And the door for Damon’s return swings back open…
JoelSherman: so the trade is vazquez and boone logan to #Yankees for melky cabrera, mike dunn and arodys vizcaino, that is now confirmed by Post
Erin, there’s no way Phil beats Joba out for the 5th spot; he’s way behind in his development as a starter. I wish they had traded Hughes now because the idea of him as a reliever stinks….
Those who say Vasquez is more than an NL pitcher just haven’t shown the proof why that’s the case.
Sure it is mark.
Eats more innings, he’s healthier, and he strikes more people out. Three things the Yankees value.
He finished 4th in Cy Young voting this year.
He’s a better pitcher than Lackey.
Another update:
UPDATE, 9:51 a.m.: Don’t forget that Yankees executives like president Randy Levine were the ones leading the charge for Randy Johnson after the 2004 season – Levine, not Cashman was the one who literally negotiated with Arizona – so it wasn’t as if Cashman was the one running Vazquez out of town originally. Cashman always liked him.
Also, this move seems to indicate that the Yankees are only interested in having one of the “kids” in the starting rotation this year. After years of debate, this may well be the end of the starter or reliever debate for Joba Chamberlain.
GB7 that is the one thing to worry about with Vazquez in the New Stadium in the summertime; he will have to work on keeping the ball down, otherwise he could end up giving up 40 home runs.
Good trade for Javy, It definitely strengthens the rotation.
The Melkman will mash in the NL. I still believe he will develop more power. Maybe we can trade for him in 3 yrs when he’s hitting 35+HR/100+ RBI & wish we kept him when he was making $2M a year. I guess we’ll see wont we
SJ44,
i prefer to use “perpetually miserable” but you’re so right.
Complaining about this deal is very peculiar.
It seems like a steal for NY.
Vazquez was a hot commodity BEFORE his exceptional 2009 season.
Ouch, Vizcaino?
If we are taking on his whole salary, then I see us going for Damon over Holliday.
who is arodys vizcaino?
MTU
December 22nd, 2009 at 9:50 am
Transmission allowed:
For GB7
I got it jumping out of a plane !
End transmission.
There can be no further communication.
————————————————————
You’re supposed to land on your feet…not sitting down.
Have you been into the egg nog all night?
Interesting comment from Craig Calcaterra at the Circling the Bases Blog (Calcaterra is an admitted Braves fan):
“Instant analysis: the Braves and their fans would probably rather have Nick Swisher, but Melky may translate well to the NL, and Nate McLouth — despite his gold glove — could slide over to left field where he probably belongs. ”
So the great Nate McLouth has to move to LF to make way for Melky? What would the great Mike Francessa say?
That makes it an even worse move……
I’m hearing the prospect is Arodys Vizcaino
I hate to see vizcaino thrown in… but still a coup for the yanks.
Sure it is mark.
Eats more innings, he’s healthier, and he strikes more people out. Three things the Yankees value.
He finished 4th in Cy Young voting this year.
He’s a better pitcher than Lackey.
————————–
Very true statement.
As much as I have always like Melky, this is a good move. And it was predictable to me that it would be Melky and not Swisher. Melky’s better than Gardner (or at least more established) overall, and cheaper for the Braves than Swisher.
I’ll miss Leche.
Yankee in ND
December 22nd, 2009 at 9:57 am
If we are taking on his whole salary, then I see us going for Damon over Holliday.
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that’s what I’m thinking too.
They’re not done and are working on an OF who can provide some offense.
It will be sad to see Melk go, but I do not feel bad for him, like those who have departed in the last 9 years.
Melk got his ring, and the Yankees should be appreciative of him as he of the Yankees.
If that trade is true it’s an INSANELY good deal for the Yankees.
Javier Vazquez was the second best pitcher in the NL last year. If he can continue to pitch like that he’s more like the #2 starter, not the #4.
I don’t understand why people are saying he’s a good #4 for the Yankees. Yes, there is some chance that last year’s great performance will carry over to this year, but it seems like there’s a much greater chance that his performance from the previous 5 years will be more like it:
2004-2008: 4.50 ERA
2009: 2.67 ERA
If he’s in the range of 2004-2008, then I don’t see how he’s much of an upgrade over Joba/Hughes. Obviously, if he’s more towards 2009′s numbers then he’s a great #4, but that just strikes me as unlikely (especially because they are NL numbers and should be adjusted upward slightly).
And it’s not that I don’t think Javier’s worth Melky/Dunn, it’s that I was under the impression that Sheets or Duchscherer could be had for a similar price, and they strike me as much, much better options.
Vizcaino? He is not one of their lesser prospects. Yanks were very high on him. Surprised they included him in the deal.
Vizcaino is one heck of a prospect too…..Darn
Betsy,
why does every move make you so unhappy?
This is a world championship team that just got better.
The Yankees have no interest in trading Hughes.
Fact is, it’s more likely Hughes will be in the rotation now because they have another innings eater in the #4 slot.
JV will give us innings…bad innings. Trading a prospect like Vizcaino for 1 year of this guy is a horrible move
Braves have to be paying some of his contract if we included Vizcaino.
“Ouch, Vizcaino?”
He’s replaceable and might have been already with Cabrera signed this year.
BloggingBombers I am told that this does NOT re-open the door for Johnny Damon to come back to the Bronx.
half a minute ago from web
================
Well – there went that
“So the great Nate McLouth has to move to LF to make way for Melky? What would the great Mike Francessa say?”
—————————————————
nothing. He’ll pretend like it never happened. Cuz he’s an ***
It’s a great deal, I mean Dunn is still 100% raw, IDK who Boone Logan is but no one has a # 4 like Javy Vasquez, if your the AL, you pray the Yankees aren’t in on the cuban and Josh Johnson.
“He’s a better pitcher than John Lackey and he doesn’t cost 82.5 million.”
No way is he better than Lackey who has experience and success in high pressure AL playoff games. It is true that he doesn’t cost 82.5 million though.
GB7,
How are you feeling? Agree that one worry about Javy Vaszquez is his HR total. He gave up a ton of HRs in the old stadium.
Like the trade. But, who’s in left now? If Holiday, great…..but how’s that gonna keep us under 200M?
Do you people not remember 2004? Vazquez is a choke artist. He stunk for 3/4 of his years in the AL. And now he comes back to the AL East. The Sox are salivating at the thought of this choker coming back into the division. I hate this move. I hate Vazquez. I’m not upset about losing Melky but I absolutely despise Vazquez. You people seem to forget that he choked so hard in 2004 and that he was horrible in the AL for 3 out of 4 years.
SJ44,
You can’t possibly say that. Vazquez has pitched for good teams since he left the Expos, he is still barely a .500 pitcher. He does have a better arm than Lackey, and Ks more batters, but it doesn’t lead to a better ERA. He pitched great last year, I’ll grant you that. But the WS did everything they could to keep from throwing him in the playoffs in ’08. He was horrid in the ’04 PS. Lackey has performed by and large in the PS, and as a top of the rotation pitcher. Vazquez primarily is what he will be in NY, a back end guy with a nice arm.
Vizcaino better not be in this trade.
I’d like Damon back but it makes no sense with NJ on the team.. where would you bat johnson? 9th?
“JV will give us innings…bad innings. Trading a prospect like Vizcaino for 1 year of this guy is a horrible move”
Betsy,
Lets not overvalue a prospect that has only pitched as high as the NY Pean League.
From Boone’s player stats it look like he is a rookie. Is there something from 2009 we should know??
Brian in NJ
December 22nd, 2009 at 10:01 am
Do you people not remember 2004? Vazquez is a choke artist.
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So did Mariano. You want to trade him?
“Vizcaino better not be in this trade.”
Phil,
I’m sorry, but to get good value you have to give value.
Rishi
December 22nd, 2009 at 10:00 am
BloggingBombers I am told that this does NOT re-open the door for Johnny Damon to come back to the Bronx.
half a minute ago from web
================
Well – there went that
Hello Matt Holliday then!
patrick: you know they included Vizcaino right
SJ, Vasquez is a mediocre pitcher in the AL – no doubt about it. They just traded a promising young arm for a guy who we’ll lose next year…….
I say they should have traded Phil because they have completely wasted him. They could have gotten something for him as a starter. Now, with the expectation that he’ll be in the pen – well, that’s another wasted year. By the time he becomes a good pitcher, he will be 28 or 29 years old……I had hopes for him, but for him personally AND for the Yankees.
love the trade, can’t find many 4 starters in baseball thsn him. he a mental midget
I dont get why only the people on this blog always think the moves are bad for the yankees. Everyone else is saying this deal is an absolute steal for the Yankees. Javy Vazquez is a very very good pitcher.
Javy Vazquez has thrown 4 full years in the American League. His average performance (all four years combined, averaged) in those four years is as follows:
206 IP 203 Hits 56 BBs/186 Ks, 27 HRA and a 4.54 ERA
How is that just an NL pitcher? That kind of performance in the American League is well worth adding to the Yankees pitching staff, especially since he is not being acquired to lead the rotation, simply fit into it. All this junk about how it effects Joba and Hughes is premature hand-wringing since only time will tell what else happens in the rotation in 2010. They will both get plenty of chances to contribute to this team. I am real psyched on this trade.
Didn’t love Dunn in the deal and now Arodys too.
I would have far less a problem with the trade if Javier had this year and one more year left on his deal. That way he is in the rotation the following season with Andy P a free agent too. Oh well.
The other issue is Javier could be a type A free agent right? But another guy the Yankees won’t offer arbitration to because of his salary, so won’t get the draft picks who potentially replace the guys in this deal.
Viz is a kid that is 3, perhaps 4 years, away from the majors.
He hasn’t even played in a full season league yet.
Those guys are always ripe to be traded because the Yankees have a lot of RH arms in the system.
It’s why I always warn the extreme prospect huggers on here, the teams “untouchable” list is always shorter than the fans.
NO WAY am i comfortable with Vasquez in the playoffs.
Now maybe Johnny Damon can go back to Boston and hit another grand slam against Javier in another Game 7.
Boston loves this move! Quality pitcher
Thanks Javier for 2004!!!!!! They’ll always be a soft spot for you in my Boston heart!
Hughes as an innings limit next season. Unless Joba comes into camp next year looking like the cookie monster he has to be in the rotation.
Someone will get hurt. It is almost inevitable and Hughes will step into the rotation.
Betsy -high on pie December 22nd, 2009 at 10:03 am
SJ, Vasquez is a mediocre pitcher in the AL – no doubt about it. They just traded a promising young arm for a guy who we’ll lose next year…….
I say they should have traded Phil because they have completely wasted him. They could have gotten something for him as a starter. Now, with the expectation that he’ll be in the pen – well, that’s another wasted year. By the time he becomes a good pitcher, he will be 28 or 29 years old……I had hopes for him, but for him personally AND for the Yankees.
————————
Betsy,
Phil is our #5 starter. Joba is in the pen. Some of your comments are just outrageous
Anyone who says that javier Vazquez is better than John Lackey is a complete idiot!!!! Did you watch him pitch for the White Sox. Javier will be ok for the Yanks as a NUMBER 4 starter but he is the KING of giving up big hits and home runs…………..He has a lot to make up for……he was awful in 04 and we all know about game 7. I watched him a lot on Chicago and he was bad there too…….Lackey is a bonafide #1 or 2……and he has proven he can do it in the AL//////Vazquez has shown he stinks in the AL…
“I dont get why only the people on this blog always think the moves are bad for the yankees. Everyone else is saying this deal is an absolute steal for the Yankees. Javy Vazquez is a very very good pitcher.”
Fans fall in love with prospects that they wouldn’t know if he walked right past them.
People say it’s a bad move because it’s not Josh Johnson or Cliff Lee… I’m guilty of that too, but upon consideration, I’m willing to see how this goes… I’m comfy with him being a #4 – not a #2.
Plus you guys are forgetting, IF he pitches like he did last year or at least above average and IF we offer him arbitration, he very well may project as a type A or if nothing else a B Free agent and that equals picks.
I really don’t see how anyone is complaining about this trade.
“Now maybe Johnny Damon can go back to Boston and hit another grand slam against Javier in another Game 7.
Boston loves this move! Quality pitcher
Thanks Javier for 2004!!!!!! They’ll always be a soft spot for you in my Boston heart!”
Keep living in the past. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!
you people need to relax. the amount of faith you people have in cashman is sickening. go CASH!!!
Fran (the original) and OPPC member
December 22nd, 2009 at 10:01 am
GB7,
How are you feeling? Agree that one worry about Javy Vaszquez is his HR total. He gave up a ton of HRs in the old stadium.
————————————————————
Fortunately, he doesn’t walk many, but he averages about 29 a year throughout his career. He’s been consistant about the….25 to 34 a year. Not many highs and lows.
Tom, that’s just not true. Phil being a very good starter helps the Yankees enormously…..
no damon and no holliday…… gardner to left
Why would they not offer Javy arbitration? Randy Wolf got 3 years this offseason. Javy will get a nice deal from someone next season.
Even if by some chance Javy took arb. Him at 14 million for 1 year is still a good deal.
“So did Mariano. You want to trade him?”
Apples to oranges, buddy. You are the typical new-age Yankee fan. Mariano (along with Jeter) has been the key to this unbelievable run over the last 15 years. Vazquez was here one year and was horrid. He is the definition of a choke artist. You probably don’t even remember Vazquez, aside from what you read on the internet, because you weren’t a fan then. This guy is awful in the AL and was absolutely pathetic here in the Bronx. What makes you think he will be better this time around? Big deal, he had a great season in the NL EAST – it might as well have been AAA. How many guys were awful in the AL and then dominated in the NL JUST LAST SEASON??
If you want to say Vazquez at 1 year/11M is better than Lackey for 5/82, I’ll buy that. I did not want to be locked in to Lackey for any length of time.
Vazquez should be OK against the dregs of the AL, but I will be holding my breath when he takes the mound in any important game.
And God forbid he is our only remaining option in the 2010 PS if we are down 3-2 in the ALCS or WS with Javy taking the mound.
UPDATE, 10:02 a.m.: For the bargain price of Melky, Mike Dunn and (apparently) the other A-Rod, Arodys Vizcaino, Cashman has:
1. Given the Yankees rotation incredible depth.
2. Likely pushed the Yankees toward a resolution on the Joba to the pen question.
3. Retained financial flexibility for next offseason and beyond (Vazquez’s contract is up after 2010).
4. Relieved a glut of extra outfielders.
Not bad for one move. And no, I don’t believe for a second that Brett Gardner will be anywhere in the Yankees Opening Day outfield.
“Viz is a kid that is 3, perhaps 4 years, away from the majors.
He hasn’t even played in a full season league yet.
Those guys are always ripe to be traded because the Yankees have a lot of RH arms in the system.
It’s why I always warn the extreme prospect huggers on here, the teams “untouchable” list is always shorter than the fans.”
SJ,
I couldn’t agree with you more.
If we sign Matt Holliday for LF, wouldn’t it have made sense to trase Swisher for Vasquez and plug Melky in RF. Melky is cheaper and provides better Defense. Our corner outfield defense sucks at the moment. Melky as our #9 hitter isn’t terrible who provides great D.
Since it was originally believed that the Yanks would spend the money Damon left on the table for on a 4th starter, which they now secured via trade, how likely is it that Damon gets called to fill Cabrera’s hole in LF?
Dealing melky is fine with me, he is a very versatile guy but he is dealable, but dunn in exchange for boone logan who sucks and trading vizcaino is just flat out dumb by cashman, the future is really being sacrificed
I say they should have traded Phil because they have completely wasted him. They could have gotten something for him as a starter. Now, with the expectation that he’ll be in the pen – well, that’s another wasted year. By the time he becomes a good pitcher, he will be 28 or 29 years old……I had hopes for him, but for him personally AND for the Yankees.”
Betsy,
So you’d rather give up Phil, a 23 year old who has shown he can be a ML Pitcher, as opposed to a kid who had one “good” short season in Staten Island?
be a good pitcher by 28 or 29 years old?
The Yankees will definitely offer arbitration. Vazquez will be looking for a multiyear deal and he is only making 11.5 million this year. The Yankees won’t be too worried about him accepting and if he does, its not a bad one year contract.
“Betsy,
Phil is our #5 starter. Joba is in the pen. Some of your comments are just outrageous”
Don’t be so quick about Joba, there are Josh Johnson pieces still here. Joba + …. can get it done.
I’d give the #5 to Phil.. I don’t understand how you can give it to “100 pitches of fun” after not showing any progression last season.
Joe, that’s nice that he did it in the NL. Go check his performances in the AL.
Here’s my question though.
Does this guarantee Damon or Holliday
But could it also guarantee they make a move on Chapman? If they said he needs a year in the minors they can certainly give it to him. He is a lefty and could be used out of the pen by midseason or end of year if needed. Then he could be added to the rotation as Andy and Javier leave. So they have a fairly inexpensive young starter with either Hughes or Joba or both and then could go after Lee if need be as it is a good balance in the staring rotation?
And a question. Signing Chapman? Does he count against the luxury tax?
More Cashman hubris. First he blows out the WS MVP because he won’t be “rushed” by his agent, then he knocks a hole in the 2-spot because he’s more concerned with settling scores with Boras than he is with making us a winner. Now he’s going to prove that he was right about Vasquez all along, no matter what it takes.
Forget that this Weaver-twin couldn’t crack a post season rotation that included Jon Lieber, a brokendown Kevin Brown, and a running on fumes El Duque. Forget that when he got his chance, he authored a bit spit for the ages. And then did the same in Chitown.
How long before we see the return of Carl Pavano? Or a Kei Igawa contract extension? Cashman needs to stick to what he does best: spending huge sums of money on no-brainer free agents. When he wheels and deals, we lose.
jjj
December 22nd, 2009 at 10:06 am
no damon and no holliday…… gardner to left
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there is no way Gardner is the starting left fielder on opening day
“Viz is a kid that is 3, perhaps 4 years, away from the majors.
He hasn’t even played in a full season league yet”
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SJ: thank you for the take. I didn’t subscribe to PP last year, and did not have the latest on Vizcaino. A couple of the other sites (River Ave Blues) had been ranking Vizcaino in their top 5 prospect lists (at least in chats). Did not realize he’s yet to pitch full-season
In a worst case LF scenario…..how good is the hoffman kid?
no way gardner plays left whos our backup OF not Hoffmann
Betsy you are completely unhinged and way off base on this one. I’m sure you were really heavily invested in Arodys Vizcaino, and were going to patiently wait for him to develop and make it to the majors in 2014 or 2015, which must be why this trade really stings you, since the plan was to build around Vizcaino for the future, right?
“Vazquez should be OK against the dregs of the AL, but I will be holding my breath when he takes the mound in any important game.”
Remember all those important games that the #4 starter pitched in the playoffs in 2009? Way too premature to worry about. If he matches up with even the best team in the league’s #4 starter, he gives the Yankees an advantage. The pendulum is still swinging in the Yankees’ favor in the American League, especially after this move is done.
Andrew you’re kidding…….since when is a 4.54 ERA considered good,lol
Sam summed it up perfectly.
A great deal for the Yankees.
i AM STILL LAUGHING AT THE vAZQUEZ IS BETTER THAN LACKEY STUFF……..HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH Statements like that make us Yankee fans look like complete homers….Stop with the idiotness!!!! Javier will be OK as the number 4, We will have to see how he is pitching in Sept to determine if he gets maybe 1 playoff start……This isnt a bad move though because he will pitch a lot of innings and he is our number 4…
Jason Bay our opening day LF?
Sam
While Joba probably will end up in the pen, the Joba in the rotation or pen debate probably will not end.
I could go either way, starters are more valuable, Joba has shown success, albeit in small sample size, in the pen.
Who knows? Maybe Joba comes to camp in shape this next year, with a chip on his shoulder, pitches well out of the pen, is available to start if we absolutely need another starter
“Dealing melky is fine with me, he is a very versatile guy but he is dealable, but dunn in exchange for boone logan who sucks and trading vizcaino is just flat out dumb by cashman, the future is really being sacrificed”
Go back on the Kool aid my friend.
Melky – No big lose, great attitude fun to watch but his skills are nothing great.
Dunn – projecting to be a decent LH arm, but you do need to give up some talent.
Vizcaino- 3-5 years away, A LOT can happen in that time. Yes he had a great year. But I could create a list a million deep of young players who had one great year and never made it anywhere.
Vizcaino shows promise but this is still an INSANELY good deal for the Yankees.
Last year was not a fluke for Vazquez. Look at his 2003 and 2007 years. 2007 was in the AL so he really does have the ability to be a #1 or #2. Even if he regresses to his other numbers he’d be a fine #4 on this team.
Melky, Dunn and Vizcaino for Vazquez is highway robbery. Try not to forget, Vazquez was the second best pitcher in the NL last year. Even adjusting for the AL he would have been one of the top pitchers.
I am disappointed that Joba and Phil won’t both be in the rotation but getting Vazquez is a HUGE plus for this team.
It won’t be Damon or Holliday……say hello to Mr Mark DeRosa from JERSEY!!!!!!
Joe from CT
December 22nd, 2009 at 10:10 am
Jason Bay our opening day LF?
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Please, no!
With Melky gone who’s going to be A-rods buddy this year?
GeorgeInJax
December 22nd, 2009 at 10:12 am
With Melky gone who’s going to be A-rods buddy this year?
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Alex and Robbie are very close
what would our payroll be if we were to sign holliday??
over 220mill??
What a surprise. Three Boston trolls all sharing the same brain cell show up together. The first known case of Siamese triplets.
UPDATE, 10:10 a.m.: So who’s in left for the Yankees now? Obviously Johnny Damon is still out there but I think that ship has sailed (though, you never say never). Matt Holliday? Jason Bay?
Put it this way: This was a strong move for Cashman to make because it is WAY easier to find a reasonable option in left field than it is to find a starting pitcher – let alone one who finished fourth in Cy Young voting a year ago and offers an appealing contract. In essence, Cashman solved one problem (pitching) while not greatly changing another (left field was an issue even with Melky on the team).
From our fine friends at …”Talking Chop”
http://www.talkingchop.com/
YES !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Betsy,
check Andy Pettitte and AJ Burnett’s ERA’s and get back to me.
So it will either be Damon or Holliday in LF. The Nicks will be batting 8 and 9 in the order. Awesome rotation, awesome lineup. Gardner off the bench for late inning speed and defense.
you have to do this trade…
it’s tough giving up a 19 yr old with wicked breaking pitch, but other than that…we gave up nice pieces, but nothing amazing.
hopefully vazquez doesn’t struggle and continues to do what he did last year…but with the question of health involving aj and andy every year until they retire, this is a trade you have to do.
unfortunately, the one reason i didn’t want to acquire someone (other than some fliers,) is because this means one of hughes or joba will be in the bullpen or AAA…i think joba will get the chance to start, and then one way or another, hughes will have his innings limit increased to 140 so he can start next year once andy retires and/or vazquez is gone…
…other than that though, you can’t complain about this trade…not sure what the yanks will do about left field…to me damon doesn’t fit the yanks lineup anymore…and i dont think they want to spend big on holliday…but at the same time, i doubt they let gardner take over.
he was opening day starter last year.. why is this soo hard to believe…
you could be right about not being left fielder.. he could go to center and granderson to left.
Craw,
I know, but I’m not big on Javy who follows good years with bad. I would only have used Vizcaino in a deal for someone better.
Meanwhile, we’re getting a bat now.
Just nuts.
Transmission allowed:
“Behold, a Red Dragon”.
Jeter
NJ
Tex
A-Rod
Matty
Po
Grandy
Cano
Swish
CC
AJ
Andy
Javy
Phil/Joba
Mo
Phil/Joba
Marte
Robertson
Logan
etc
etc
etc
End transmission.
“”UPDATE, 9:51 a.m.: Don’t forget that Yankees executives like president Randy Levine were the ones leading the charge for Randy Johnson after the 2004 season – Levine, not Cashman was the one who literally negotiated with Arizona – so it wasn’t as if Cashman was the one running Vazquez out of town originally. Cashman always liked him.”"
THANK YOU SAM, Thank you, a million times thank you for reporting that… Every Cashman hater should read that and have to write it on a chalk board 10 times… Not to mention other bonehead moves by Levine and the Tampa Contingent… Raul Mondesi,Gary Sheffield over Vlad Guerrero, Kevin Brown, and Ted Lilly for Jeff Weaver…. So happy Cash has the final Say
Just read on MLBTR that it looks like we are paying all of Javy’s salary. So I’d say that eliminates a big Holliday acquisition and paves the way for Damon to return. I would think that Atlanta pays Melky’s salary…correct?
When is a 4.54 ERA good? When you are pitching in the American League, and you are a #4 starter, that is when it is considered good Betsy. Look around the rest of the league at the guys slotted as #4s or even #3s on the other teams. Where are the starters posting those kind of numbers that are considered terrible and can’t hack it in the AL and “NL only, terrible pitchers” as you like to put it? Those are the guys getting $80 million contract extensions, Betsy. I’m sorry, you are so wrong it isn’t funny anymore, and your schtick of freaking out over everything has completely run its course. This team just got a lot better, but of course you want to go on and on about how this is a bad move. What, is this Black Tuesday, to go along with last week’s Black and Blue Monday? Ridiculous.
CR9,
Good point – the debate may well never go away. Adding Vazquez at least forces the issue in some way. As Chad and I mentioned in our live chat last week, I see this season as, potentially, the beginning of the Yankees grooming Chamberlain to be the closer of the future.
Yankees will pay all of his salary
Yankees will pay all of his salary
Let’s just bring back the rest of the 2004 pitching staff while we’re at it. And we can get Sheff to plat Left.
“With Melky gone who’s going to be A-rods buddy this year?”
——————————————
who’s going to be Cano’s? With Abreu already gone, Cashman busted that clique up
I’m sure Cano won’t be happy one bit about this move.
Vasquez was the best name out of many bad ones being thrown around in here last night like Lowe, Zambrano, Harang etc.
He had the best year of his career in 2009 and now he’s entering his walk year. He’s also a perennial 200 inning guy and a strikeout pitcher.
The HR’s allowed are the downside. He gives up nearly .5 more per 9 innings than CC, AJ and Andy (who all give up .8 per 9)
And something tells me he’s going to enjoy playing for Girardi much more than for Torre.
And if this deal is indeed done?
The payroll is very close to that 200 mil threshold.
So withstanding all the “seers” and “anonymous drone” insiders pushing the eventual Holliday signing, can we at least admit that this trade probably just killed that possibility. Please?
Mark in Tampa – Vazquez’s teams haven’t been as good as the Yanks will be next year.
If you go by win percentage, without keeping that in mind, one might also say Nolan Ryan wasn’t that good a pitcher.
And no, I’m NOT comparing Vazquez to Ryan in terms of pitching ability. What I’m saying is that sometimes when you put a good pitcher on a bad team (even one of the best pitchers ever) he won’t be able to win as many games as he could have if he were on a good team.
spidanyc
December 22nd, 2009 at 10:07 am
If we sign Matt Holliday for LF, wouldn’t it have made sense to trase Swisher for Vasquez and plug Melky in RF. Melky is cheaper and provides better Defense. Our corner outfield defense sucks at the moment. Melky as our #9 hitter isn’t terrible who provides great D.
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You are assuming they are signing Matt Holliday. Which they probably are not.
The thing is, if we intend to use Joba as a reliever, and the Marlins view Joba as a starter and would take him for JJ, then that would be a steal for us as well.
Obviously, it’s been reported that JJ is not going anywhere…
Cervelli is Arod’s BFF ha
Betsy -high on pie
December 22nd, 2009 at 10:10 am
Andrew you’re kidding…….since when is a 4.54 ERA considered good,lol
———————
When you’re talking about a #4 starter it is.
Case in point.. take a look at the #4 on the 09 Phillies..
Jamie Moyer, his era was 4.94 … and he’s in the NL.
This is a great super move. I love it. Vazquez is a better pitcher now then he was when we had him before. IF he is on his game I could see him having a better season than AJ.Even if he’s mediocre he will fit into the 3/4 hole in the rotation wonderfully.
Sheets and Dusch may have had higher upsides but their health was a real concern. Glad we could get someone established for so cheap.
My only regret with this trade is getting rid of Melky. I wanted to see us win a world series with him in left so all the naysayers on here would have to eat their words.
I don’t think the Yanks are getting Holliday. People here will read ANYTHING the yankees do as a sign that the want Holliday…The Yanks signed Mike Rivera to a minor league deal today…please enlighten me how that means the Yanks are going after Holliday. I know someone in here can make that stretch.
As much as I really think Joba and Hughes both belong in the rotation, I think Hughes is the one in the rotation. The organization has always been higher on him and I think the Yankees believe he can be the better starter.
Yankees paying Vazquez’s entire salary per the AJC. By my count that puts the 25 man roster a shade under $200M in actual salary, not including a couple arb matters and kiddie salaries.
let it be Matt Holliday.
don’t want Damon back, unless it’s 1-year
“Not to mention other bonehead moves by Levine and the Tampa Contingent… Raul Mondesi,Gary Sheffield over Vlad Guerrero, Kevin Brown, and Ted Lilly for Jeff Weaver…. So happy Cash has the final Say”
Adam, to clarify, Cashman loved Jeff Weaver and he was the one who pursued that trade. The rest of the moves were Tampa-driven, but Weaver is on Cash. And to be fair, people didn’t predict the total collapse that Weaver suffered on the Yankees, but that was definitely a Cashman decision.
Guys:
It’s hard for me to fathom anyone being upset over what the Yankees gave up in this deal. Melky is hardly irreplaceable, Dunn is talented but certainly not more valuable than even a decent starting pitcher and Vizcaino was a long, long way from being a major league player.
Giving that up for a guy who makes $11.5 million for one year and a) has a penchant for eating innings; and b) is coming off a fantastic year is a steal.
This is Cashman learning from the mistakes of ’08.
He didn’t want to go into the season with 2 unproven kids as the 4 and 5.
Vazquez gives the Yankees an almost certain 200 ip and an ERA between 4.00-4.50. Plus, he’s pitching for a contract.
Also, this move makes the ‘pen stronger too….
“I’m sure Cano won’t be happy one bit about this move”
—————————————————
it’s a win-win then
i understand the need to have a healthy starter in vazquez, BUT his AL numbers are incredibly WORSE than his NL. 4 years in the AL, one season under a 4.5 ERA.
Highway robbery for melky. A boras client will be coming to the Yankees. Whether its Holliday or Damon the team will be better than it was last year which makes me happy.
Sign Holliday now..
Everyone complaining about this deal needs a serious reality check. Non-Yankee fans are livid about this trade, that should give you an idea of how good it is for New York.
I’ll say it a third time because apparently it’s not sinking in. The Yankees just traded for the second best pitcher in the NL last year.
He can’t pitch in the AL? Bull. Go look at his 2007 stats.
Even if Vazquez regresses he’s still a phenomenal 4th starter. He averages over 200 innings a year and he strikes people out at a ridiculous rate.
For the people that think Joba is going to the bullpen.
What do you plan on doing when Hughes hits his innings limit?
TNeloms,
Your analysis is flawed. Unlikely both Joba and Phil give you 200 innings each, espcially since Phil has a cap, and we need 2 starters.
When was the last time Sheets or Duch pitched 200 innings.
We don’t need an ace, just innings. No way, AJ and Andy start 60+ games again. A 4.50 ERA is league average and that’s all we need – especially if we pick up a bat.
We got 200 credible innings for a #4 OFer.
**********************************************************
2004-2008: 4.50 ERA
2009: 2.67 ERA
If he’s in the range of 2004-2008, then I don’t see how he’s much of an upgrade over Joba/Hughes. Obviously, if he’s more towards 2009’s numbers then he’s a great #4, but that just strikes me as unlikely (especially because they are NL numbers and should be adjusted upward slightly).
And it’s not that I don’t think Javier’s worth Melky/Dunn, it’s that I was under the impression that Sheets or Duchscherer could be had for a similar price, and they strike me as much, much better options.
When the Yankees had Vasquez last time he was supposed to be a potential ace or #2 starter. This time there is less pressure in that he is coming in as #4 behind CC, AJ and Andy.
Andrew, you’re a jerk – you can’t handle someone disagreeing with your view of Cy Vasquez so you resort to insults? Whatever – I don’t give a rat’s patootie what you think of me.
So much for getting younger Cashman, a soon to be 34 yr old pitcher for a 24 yr old and thanks for reminding the fan base of the 2004 ALCS pitchers meltdown, by bring back one of the featured losing pitchers!!
I seriously doubt that NYY would have made this trade if they didn’t already have a deal set for a left fielder of some stature. I don’t think that they’d trust it to damon, either. It would have to be that Cashman is reasonably sure of health.
And we get 2 draft picks for Vasquez as a Type A if we let him leave after this year.
It won’t be Damon or Holliday……say hello to Mr Mark DeRosa from JERSEY!!!!!
can see that happening real soon i would say 2 years at 10 million
An added bonus of Javy Vasquez as a true innings eater: less workload on the bullpen. Everthing to like about that.
My only wish is that Atlanta accepted Gardner rather than Melky. With any luck maybe Kevin Long can make Gardner a hitter or at least teach him to bunt and take advantage of his speed.
““”UPDATE, 9:51 a.m.: Don’t forget that Yankees executives like president Randy Levine were the ones leading the charge for Randy Johnson after the 2004 season – Levine, not Cashman was the one who literally negotiated with Arizona – so it wasn’t as if Cashman was the one running Vazquez out of town originally. Cashman always liked him.””
If Cashman had his way back then, he would’ve kept Javy and signed Beltran that offseason.
Patrick-execellent post. And I love the fact that non-Yankee fans are furious about this trade.
Erin
December 22nd, 2009 at 10:13 am
GeorgeInJax
December 22nd, 2009 at 10:12 am
With Melky gone who’s going to be A-rods buddy this year?
*******************
Alex and Robbie are very close
====================
Don’t forget Cervelli – they got really close, too
“You are assuming they are signing Matt Holliday. Which they probably are not.”
Given that Swisher was not part of the deal, thus no loss of thump in the lineup, and the proximity the 25 man roster is to $200M (maybe a million under before arb and qualifying offers to kids), Holliday is out unless someone upstairs says “Budget? We don’t need no stinkin’ budget”.
I could see Phil starting the year in the bullpen and Joba in the rotation. Then unless Joba’s frequently pitching into the 7th with an ERA under 4 and he’s on the way to 16+ wins, they’ll be switched by August.
Would have much preferred to see Gardner go instead of Melky and Vazquez’s numbers are all in the NL – we’ll have to wait and see how he does once again back in the AL and specifically, the AL East…..and by the way, who is going to play left field?????
Bronx Jeers – think there is still a chance we get Holliday. Nady is gone, so that’s some savings. Javy and Andy probably are gone next year, so you overpay in 2010, but will have more flexibility next year.
And, if the rotation of CC, AJ, Andy and Vazques is looking good in Septenmber then the bullpen has Phil, Joba and Mariano to close out games in October.
Not toooo baaaad …
yankees DO need a left fielder now. Gardner CANNOT play left.
If JV is our 4th starter…We have a great rotation!
I think he’ll do very well.
For LF…I can’t believe it will be Gardner-Hoffman.
I have this weird feeling that the Yanks are going to emerge as mystery suitor for Bay?!
Trade foe Crawford???
Yanks get what is hardest to get reliable innings at a reasonable price. I just looked up Javy’s splits with Philadelphia to get a measure of his ability against an “american league type lineup” team and he was 2-1 with a 3.0 ERA. A small sample but an interesting stat. In addition, check into Logan’s stats, not bad against lefty hitters -under 2.0 ERA. So throwing in Dunn isn’t all bad given we are getting somebody who s young and can get out lefites in the majors. Dunn has more upside but unproven.
Sam – you need to let the crazies just air it out
Logic and reason won’t get you far right now…it will all be ok in about a day or 2
Cliff Lee is a FA next year.. I’d rather have him than an overrated LF.
Boring. That trade is a snooze fest.
Despite injury and health concerns, I wish the Yanks had gone after Sheets or Duchscherer.
Not really excited to see Javy back and after hearing good things about Dunn and Arodys, not sure I want to give them up for a one-year rental.
Food for thought……..If Joba / Phil have a break out season, Javy becomes our #5.
The Yankees just added significant payroll.
If Holliday was not in the mix before. He definitely is not now…
if the trade were for Derrick Lowe, people would have something to complain about
Zero Doubt that the team & rotation are improved by this deal.
Way to go Mr. Cashman!
The prospect hugger in me only laments not seeing some of our FORMER young guys fully develop.
“Adam, to clarify, Cashman loved Jeff Weaver and he was the one who pursued that trade. The rest of the moves were Tampa-driven, but Weaver is on Cash. And to be fair, people didn’t predict the total collapse that Weaver suffered on the Yankees, but that was definitely a Cashman decision.”
Most Yankee fans back then thought it was a great trade with Weaver. Sometimes trades just don’t work out.
Hey guys, lets give up Phil Hughes for Javy Vasquez, and not do anything to help our team, except lose control years over a 23 year old pitcher!!!!
LOL
“And we get 2 draft picks for Vasquez as a Type A if we let him leave after this year.”
Kinda depends on the year he has. If he’s really good, maybe the Yankees would consider extending him. If he’s ordinary or worse, the Yankees might balk at offering for fear that he’d accept. Good deal either way though.
Another one bites the dust,hope the gutting of the team,will still allow for a semblance of Chemistry.
Rishi
December 22nd, 2009 at 10:20 am
Alex and Robbie are very close
====================
Don’t forget Cervelli – they got really close, too
***************
You’re right. Cervelli will very easily take Melky’s place
Ya know, I am in no way a Cashman fan boy. I have disliked a lot of his moves over the year or dislike how he went about them.
But he has simply done a wonderful job this offseason. I love this team so far and I am really excited.
Cash(man) is king.
A great move. The Braves were looking to lower payroll and hoped to dump Lowe for some talent. Instead Cashman got Vasquez for very very little. Great use of Yankee leverage.
I agree with Sam. I think this gives the NYY a good “reason” to put Joba in the pen and groom him to replace Mo. 2009 they worked with Joba (although the “Rules” may have hurt him more than helped) and he struggled. Not even so much with the #s, but working with the catchers and as reported by some here, he had many “chats” with Eiland & Joe. When the PS came around and he was in the BP, he wasn’t lights out, but in short order his velocity went up and he showed signs of the dominating Joba. Given more time, perhaps he would’ve returned to 2007 form.
i DON’T THIINK people are disappointed, it is just that most Yankee fans and more importantly “baseball fans: who have watched Vzquez pitch through the yrs, realize he has been less than average in the AL. That is a fact. Now, as a #4 for a year, I can see where he can help. This is by no means a steal. Vazquez has been an AL disaster but teams will always be in love with his stuff. It fills a need, the Yanks got a 12 mil # 4 starter. Not a big deal at all
We could trade for Chris Carpenter or Tim Lincecum and people on here would be complaining that they are NL pitchers…
Andrew, I don’t really care if you think it’s schtick or not. You don’t belong posting on message boards if you cant’t tolerate other people’s opinions.
Betsy you can’t handle being proven wrong and called out on your histrionics, so that’s fine, I’m the bad guy I suppose. Perhaps you should ease off the mass hysteria and stop spouting nonsense/repeating patently false statements? Then maybe people wouldn’t come off as so jerk-like. You are flat out wrong, as usual, though.
Gardner in CF, Grandy in LF
That is my prediction and I am sticking to it
Cano will probably have a breakdown..
Nick D. December 22nd, 2009 at 10:25 am
We could trade for Chris Carpenter or Tim Lincecum and people on here would be complaining that they are NL pitchers…
——
HAHAHA
cue Betsy….
Repeat Transmission:
“what do you see ?”
“My G_d it’s full of Stars” ?
Jeter
NJ
Tex
A-Rod
Matty
Po
Grandy
Cano
Swish
CC
AJ
Andy
Javy
Phil/Joba
Mo
Phil/Joba
Marte
Robertson
Logan
End transmission.
While I admit to having prospect hugging tendencies(I blame that on 3 years of writing for Pinstripes Plus), I don’t mind this trade. I never disliked Vasquez(despite his 04′ failings) and with a good offense behind him, he’ll do well as our 4th starter.
I know it’s already been said, but it ‘s not likely we’ll get more than one year out of him, but SOMEONE will sign him and that means two draft picks for us. I liked the idea of Melk in LF and had no problem if the Yankees didn’t sign another OF, but that’s perhaps the only issue I have with this.
I love Gardy, but I would find it hard to believe (as most of this board seems to think) that Cash is done looking for an OF to play LF.
Betsy-I have no doubt Cano will be very disappointed to see his best buddy go, but he’s got a lot of friends on the team. He’ll be fine.
People who say Vazquez is ‘less than average’ have absolutely no idea what an average pitcher in the AL actually is…
Curtis Granderson is the yankees CF’er
Dimaggio
Mantle
Williams
Granderson
MTU:
Where are you getting “Matty” from?
Cashman loves DeRosa….if he can get him for only 2 yrs, it is a done deal. That would be a wise signing!!
I think it’s more likely that Hughes goes to the pen. Joba will be able to throw 200 innings (or near that) while Hughes is capable of throwing probably 160? Not sure.
If this deal goes through the question isn’t really the pitching, the question is – who plays left field? I’m not sure the Yanks have the payroll to grab Holliday so who else is out there?
If Joba is seriously going back to the pen I’d make an effort to trade him for a left fielder. His value goes down drastically once he goes to the pen fulltime.
Statistically speaking & FWIW, Vasquez probably had the best 2009 season of any starter on the Yankees or Sox.
Really, the Yanks just negated any rotation advantage the Sox may have gained from signing Lackey.
And the pen just got better.
lets go yankees
December 22nd, 2009 at 10:25 am
Gardner in CF, Grandy in LF
That is my prediction and I am sticking to it
god I hope not.. GARDNER”S GOD AWFUL
Betsy-I have no doubt Cano will be very disappointed to see his best buddy go, but he’s got a lot of friends on the team. He’ll be fine.
—-
I tend to agree although I do think it is a slight concern. It isn’t as if Cano seems like the most motivated guy in the league even with Melky. Not that I think Robbie Cano’s feelings should have held up this deal…just something to watch for as the season unfolds next year.
LMAO. Jonah Keri (huge Expos fan, not sure if he’s now a Nats fan or not) apparently loves the deal for us….
jonahkeri
To be fair to the #Braves, any time you can acquire dryer lint for one of the best SP in baseball, you gotta do it.
transmission allowed:
Rishi-
What does Joe call a “Vacation” later on ?
End transmission.
Whatever – the trade is done. What does this mean for LF? I don’t think we’re going with Gardner, CG and Swisher……
Don’t know why people hate this deal?A 4th starter who finished fourth in NY Cy Young voting….That’s a guy I want on my team
People should stop living in the past.
People who say Vazquez is ‘less than average’ have absolutely no idea what an average pitcher in the AL actually is…
—–
Amen. People need to look at all the other rotations around the league and see where Javy would fit into them.
Most teams #1/2 pitcher is now our #3/4 pitcher.
And the pen just got better.
********************
An big upside to this deal. Either Joba or Hughes can now be the 8th inning bridge to Mariano.
I miss 2009
I cant belive 3/9 of our starters are gone.
Bye Melky.
Nick D.
December 22nd, 2009 at 10:29 am
Betsy-I have no doubt Cano will be very disappointed to see his best buddy go, but he’s got a lot of friends on the team. He’ll be fine.
—-
I tend to agree although I do think it is a slight concern. It isn’t as if Cano seems like the most motivated guy in the league even with Melky. Not that I think Robbie Cano’s feelings should have held up this deal…just something to watch for as the season unfolds next year.
============
I think the impact might be a better Cano for game days since he’s losing his late-night drinking buddy…
“I tend to agree although I do think it is a slight concern. It isn’t as if Cano seems like the most motivated guy in the league even with Melky. Not that I think Robbie Cano’s feelings should have held up this deal…just something to watch for as the season unfolds next year”
—————————————————
if anything it should serve as motivation. Keep up your play, or you’ll be shipped out too
Yeah, Vasquez is the same pitcher as Carpenter and Lincecum
this is a good trade ONLY if:
1) It means Damon or Holliday in LF (they aren’t going with Gardner or Rule 5 in leftfield….right?…..right!?!?)
2) It means Cliff Lee is a Yankee next year (with Vasquez and Pettite’s salary gone – vasquez = 11 million pettite = 11 million which will be lee’s 22 million next year)
Great trade for the Yankees.
A few points:
1) I am somewhat addicted to the Yankee prospects but would not know who Arodys Vizcaino was were he throwing fastballs at my head. Although from all reports he is an excellent prospect. Bear in mind Chris Cabrera who the Yankees signed this July 2nd is projecting to be a similar player just now younger.
2) Remember the contract is 1 year. This does not preclude Holliday. Cash if he wanted Matt can easily justify an added expenditure for this year as Vazquez and Pettite are only on one year deals. Cash did not tie up cash for more than one year.
3) There will be a new LF (unless it is Damon in which case it is an old friend) on opening day.
4) Cash has made this team younger, the payroll much more flexible with Granderson locked in at a good rate, Vazquez and Pettite on one year deals. I think we are seeing an amazingly well thought out plan come to fruition the last two years.
5) Where is Kevin Towers. Is on the payroll yet? Was he involved in this process as I seem to recall reading he is the pitching guru?
Sheets is 1) expensive ($12 mil) and 2) injured and Duscherer is a head case – not exactly the guy you want in the media heavy haven that is NY.
Yeah, Vasquez is the same pitcher as Carpenter and Lincecum
—–
It was a joke Betsy…hyperbole to prove a point.
And also, I didn’t mention your name. That was another poster.
Vaqsquez, who some say can’t pitch against the AL East, pitched agianst the Red Sox last year and his line was–7.2IP-6H-1R-3BB-8K. I love his yearly strike out to walk ratio.
People were asking trhe other day about Mo’s ultimate replacement. I suspect the Yankees see Joba is that role. This move strengthens the rotation and the bullpen.
Dunn is very wild, and their is every reason to wonder if he will overcome that. Arodys is someone I wish wouldn’t go, but if it is he, so be it.
DeRosa sucks.
EdWhitson,
I understand that he’ll give us 200 innings (hopefully) of average pitching, and that’s definitely what you want out of your #4/5. But we wouldn’t have gotten that between Joba/Hughes/Gaudin/Mitre? Isn’t that enough even when/if one of our top 3 goes down for a while?
And even if it’s not enough innings, if you’re just looking for an innings guy, surely there’s another average major league pitcher out there that wouldn’t cost Melky/Dunn. I don’t see how our rotation isn’t MUCH better with CC/AJ/Pettitte/Duchscherer/Joba plus some random Gaudin-like guy for backup innings.
Now, if Sheets and Duchscherer weren’t options — at least near the price they got for Vazquez — then I’m all for this.
I look forward to Cashman now saying that Jamie Hoffmann and Brett Gardner will platoon in left field, as he negotiates a bargain-basement deal with Johnny Damon.
“Cano will probably have a breakdown..”
Or grow into the superstar player we think he can be.
so why don’t we trade away Swisher also and eliminate all the character we had on the team last year completely? throw AJ out there also
I was just about to say, guys they traded Melky for Javier Vazquez, com’on, I love Arodys that will hurt, but he will be replaced easily, Dunn is still RAW, Javi gives you a guaranteed 200 IP, we lose an arm in CF, but I doubt this is the last move.
Again FLA Marlins and Josh Johnson + CF still an option. If the Yankees send Joba packing and land him. Lights out.
BloggingBombers I’m surprised how many Yankees fans are against this move. You do realize they traded Melky Cabrera, not Derek Jeter, right?
2 minutes ago from web
Sam,
Your points are well taken. Actually, it is a great deal; however, with the Melkman, leftfield was defensively covered with an “adequate” bat. Now it is not, so Cashman definitely will make some move (Gardner and Johnson..the minor league journeyman from the Dodgers are not the answer). DeRosa??..I love the guy, but as a fulltime OF, no. So is it back to Boras? for Matty, or does Cash bring Johnny back? Does Boras now how a “conflict”? Does it even matter to him? Does Cash say we play now for only one year, since next year’s free agents are supposedly plentiful? Interesting!!
this is a good trade ONLY if:
1) It means Damon or Holliday in LF (they aren’t going with Gardner or Rule 5 in leftfield….right?…..right!?!?)
2) It means Cliff Lee is a Yankee next year (with Vasquez and Pettite’s salary gone – vasquez = 11 million pettite = 11 million which will be lee’s 22 million next year)
——
This is RIDICULOUS. totally absurd comment.
this is a GREAT SUPERB deal even if the Yankees don’t make a single move for the rest
of the off-season and aren’t even players for Lee next year.
I don’t see how the inherent value in this deal is contingent on those things at all.
One of the most absurd comments i’ve seen up here all day.
The yanks made two legit trades this winter and didnt give up Joba, Hughes, Montero, Romine or Banuelos. And they kept their financial flexibility for next winter.
Great job by Cash!
lets just remember, he pitched in the AL East last year for that 2.98 ERA. The same AL East with the mets, braves, nationals and marlins. All with no thump at all…
Not exactly the AL East hard hitting lineups.
Rishi
December 22nd, 2009 at 10:34 am
BloggingBombers I’m surprised how many Yankees fans are against this move. You do realize they traded Melky Cabrera, not Derek Jeter, right?
2 minutes ago from web
*****************************
lol
The “upgrade” over having both Joba and Hughes in the rotation is about innings, I would think. Hughes is on a limit; Joba, well, if he’s the Joba of 2009, doesn’t give more than 5. Andy can give 7 at times, but it’s probably best to anticipate more like 5 to 6, given his age. With Vazquez being able to pitch innings, you can break up Andy and Phil/Joba and not worry about killing the bullpen.
CB
Given the current makeup of the roster, my Gardner to CF theory now makes more sense.
Seriously though, I see another move coming for a LF.
another postive: Banulos wasn’t traded in the deal
“BloggingBombers I’m surprised how many Yankees fans are against this move. You do realize they traded Melky Cabrera, not Derek Jeter, right?
2 minutes ago from web”
The negative to me is that Hughes or Joba won’t start.
I think DeRosa is a strong possibility… though if I’m Damon I call the Yanks myself and tell them I’m ready willing and able for whatever the price.
MTU — Logan is awful and will not make the major league roster. Aceves will be in the pen and the 11th guy could be Gaudin, Albaladejo or Melancon.
I put Joba in the rotation so there are no inning count issues with Hughes in the “5″ slot. I still think eventually Joba will be the closer, but Mariano may go till he’s 50!
Lets put it this way, Vazquez was better than any pitcher on the Yankees or Red Sox last year. It’s not a guarantee that he will do the same in 2010 but the potential is there.
Sign SHEETS – give me a break.
For the same salary and same deal length the Yankees got a pitcher that will give them 200 innings. All around, durability, pitchability, pitched in AL, and most recent results is light years ahead of Sheets. FOR THE SAME MONEY AND YEARS.
And, the Yankees can either lock Vazquez up if they choose, offer arb and get another short term contract, or since pitchers will always get contracts get 2 top draft picks.
Vasquez pitched with a bad shoulder the second half of 04′ and didn’t tell anybody about it.. So that being said, I like this trade alot. They re-establish the bullpen with Joba and now can focus of LF.. They put another power arm in the rotation. JV comes off the books next year anyways. So now is it Holliday or Bay. Damon’s probably not coming back since that bridge was burned…
I’ll miss Melky, that’s for sure, but from a team standpoint, this is a great move.
Vasquez is a top 10 pitcher and we got him for what? An young, but average OF, an unproven lefty reliever, and a prospect at best 3 years from stepping in YS.
Great move. That said, it does clearly signal to me that OF is not done, but this was being planned which is why Jamie Hoffmann was picked up. Melky was already agreed to. The sticking points were either Dunn or Arodys Vizcaino. Cash couldn’t trade Dunn for Granderson, because he needed him for this deal, but Atlanta wanted Vizcaino.
Now, we’re back in the hunt for LF, with Holliday as the primary, and in my opinion, with Damon as the secondary choice, and Hoffmann as the absolute backup option.
Just to repeat, the Yanks brought in 2 legit players this winter and kept the best of their young talent. Keep that in mind.
QUE, No mo Melky?
OH, NO, NO, NO!!!
Javier VaZquez with 2 Z’s.
Say it with me… V-A-Z-Q-U-E-Z
I confess to being one of those “handwringers”. And I still believe that Joba will be the 5th starter.
Joba was a starter and reliever in 2008 and a starter in 2009 which was not his best year but he still had some great games. And did welll in the WS. Joe seemed to trust him more than Phil. Although Phil is a good pitcher I see a flaw in his make up. He is still not “tough” enough hence his choke act in the WS.
There are a lot of Joba believers on this board and I would like to request them to post their belief in Joba.
In an earlier argument about Joba to the pen I stated that no starting MLB pitcher aspires to be in the bull pen. That is for failed starters.I would not put Joba in that category. Joba has been in the bigs since late 07, 08 and 09. It is a waste of talent and potential revenue for Joba to be put back in the pen.
He was not given the proper time to develop. All of you have seen his flashes of brilliance and know he can be a great starter. Joba has more established time than Phil does. Phil will have an innings limit as Joba had last year. How will the Yankees manage that when they did so badly with Joba in 2009.
I truly believe the philosphy of the other handwringer that if Joba is seriously not in the Yankee plans for the rotation he should be traded. On any other team (except the RS) he could be a 3 or 4 starter.
Who knows how long Mo will continue to pitch. Is Joba expected to wither away in the pen. This is a young man who has 4, count them, pitches.
Rant over.
Betsy -high on pie
December 22nd, 2009 at 10:30 am
Whatever – the trade is done. What does this mean for LF? I don’t think we’re going with Gardner, CG and Swisher……
————————————————————
I have serious doubts that Cashman and Girardi will turn over left field to Gardner. With Cabrera now gone, I don’t think that Derosa or Damon are the ticket in left, either.
Rishi December 22nd, 2009 at 10:34 am
BloggingBombers I’m surprised how many Yankees fans are against this move. You do realize they traded Melky Cabrera, not Derek Jeter, right?
2 minutes ago from web
—–
Seriously what is wrong with some of you guys????
Just a typical flying under the radar move courtesy of Brian Cashman.
Jon Heyman is stunned, confused, and walking around with a huge question mark over his head on why he didn’t see it coming. Maybe Cashman played him like a fiddle.
I’m now wondering if Wilkin De La Rosa will challenge Boone Logan for a lefty bullpen role in spring training.
Hey GB-7 ;
Another day without the smokies in the way ? Let’s hope so. Those hot dogs and beer will taste like sirloin and champagne at Charleston games.
TylerKepner Vazquez has 1 year, $11.5M left on contract. Again, Cashman’s going for short-term deals to save up for dream free agent class next winter.
When’s the last time a WS champ flushed their 5 hitter (and WS MVP), their established, proven 2-hitter and their young CF and brought back a guy at the heart of the franchise’s worst moment? We just flipped a third of a championship line-up for no good reason and got worse in the process.
Why couldn’t we have packaged Joba with some or all of the young talent that went in the Granderson/Vasquez deals for Hallyday, re-signed the old guard, and kept Melky in center?
Vazquez wasn’t the second best pitcher in the NL
Carpenter
Lincecum
Jurrjens
Wainwright
Kershaw
Vazquez
At best he is the #6
Source http://www.espn.go.com/mlb/sta.....rder/false
DeRosa would be a nice fit
nyp_joelsherman Just got confirmed that deal is done
half a minute ago from web
Reply Retweet nyp_joelsherman #Yankees figured Melky’s arb was going to be $3M-$3.5M, so they see Vazquez as more $8-$8.5M starter than $11.5M
1 minute ago from web
This is only a good trade if the Yankees think they are planning on signing and keeping him here for the next 3-4 years.
Otherwise they gave up a lot to get him for a one year rental.
I wonder out loud if fans,management and others FULLY COMPREHEND the incredible an undeniable value when a player especially a younger one can perform well and consistently in NEW YORK.
Sometime it seems that others feel players are like computer parts – plug and play. It isn’t like that.
So my questions/thoughts are this:
1) Can Vazques pitch well in NYC – ( my feeling is NO)
2) Do the Yankees really truly understand that they gave up there best throwing outfielder and most versatile one?
3) Do the Yankees understand the intangibles that Melky brought to the table especially his ability for big hits?
4) Man, this year Melky was either going to bridge the 20 HR mark/300 avg or not improve – he is still so young.
5)I guess Cashman was worried once Pettite is done in 2010 who is our #3 starter?
6) Did they really have to give up Arodys? What’s the use in protecting the 4 baby infielders – one of them plus a lesser pitching prospect than Arodys would’ve been great.
7) Yankees lost a great clubhouse guy who brought to quote Torre ” A lot of good energy”
Again this trade ONLY makes sense if the Yankees plan on keeping Vasquez for the next 3 years and if he can pitch this time in the Bronx. He looks scared every time he is here. Dangerous trade……..
Boom or Bust type all the way around.
HC
TNeloms,
The thing is Sheets and Duch are not locks for 200 innings. Javy is.
We weren’t going in to 2010 with Joba and Phil in the rotation – can’t have 2 kids on a WS club. We made that mistake in 2008, so it is 1 or the other.
Then, if you don’t get Javy, the other is Gaudin or Mitre.
For the cost of Melky, I am happy to have a better option than Gaudin or Mitre.
Plus, now it gives us an excuse to get Holliday for the holidays…….
I always think its funny when fans of other teams complain about payroll. I don’t understand why, its the name of the game. If you have money, you spend money. Nobody complains the owner of the Marlins or Pirates pockets at least 10 million a year for themselves. The Yankees are a business and put the money they make from the team back into the team. That’s the way it should be.
So who cares if the Yankees added another 12 million in payroll. You guys make me laugh. Is it YOUR money, coming out of your pocket? I have full season tickets, I pay for some of the team (a very small part obviously) but I could care less if they spend 275 million for the year. If we are the richest franchise in sports, we should act like it. If I won the lottery and had 275 million, should I NOT spend it because it might make everyone else around me feel awkward?
When a team can afford a billion dollar stadium, there is not budget.. And nor should there be.
“Lets put it this way, Vazquez was better than any pitcher on the Yankees or Red Sox last year. It’s not a guarantee that he will do the same in 2010 but the potential is there”
—————————————————–
patrick: The trade was thievery. But be fair, Vaz put up those numbers in a pitcher’s park, and in the NL. Based on his career numbers, i don’t believe the potential for a sub 3.0 ERA is there. Excellent trade, tho
If Damon is really not an option, then it’s still looking like Holliday.
I just don’t see them going after DeRosa – more of a stopgap move with no one else out there (doubt Crawford will be available in 2011).
The “budget” issue has really been posturing – while it clearly isn’t “unlimited”, there is a “soft” cap involved.
Nick, I wasn’t responding to you – I’ve no reason to be sarcastic to you.
I don’t see how we get Holliday now….but we can’t go with Gardner, Granderson, Swisher.
Another tidbit from me.
All those people who said a Gardner/Melky platoon wouldn’t work in LF: Crazy
All those people who now say Gardner can’t be our everyday LFer: Totally correct
We will obviously get a LFer now. It might be Damon but I’m pretty sure its not gunna be Holliday.
I would be very surprised if it is Matty but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was another option besides those 2 guys.
I’d prefer Hughes in the rotation and Joba in the pen, but either way they are both still NYY and that’s a good thing. I think they both will become even more valuable members of the staff as the years go by and I’m glad Cashman hung onto them.
So it’s:
Jeter
Johnson
Texiera
Rodriguez
Holliday/Bay
Posada
Granderson
Cano
Swisher
SR:
Sabathia
Burnett
Pettite
Vazquez
Chamberlain/Hughes
Looks pretty good to me.
I think the Yankees will have a better team in 2010 then they had in 2009
Howard Cosell thinks Melky is Mickey Mantle.
sunny615 December 22nd, 2009 at 10:32 am
Sheets is 1) expensive ($12 mil) and 2) injured and Duscherer is a head case – not exactly the guy you want in the media heavy haven that is NY.
==================
Hmmm, how much is Javy? 11 million? Sheets will most likely get an incentive-laden contract that will max out at 12 million. Sheets has more upside than Javy, unless Javy has another miracle year…this time in the AL East.
The Duke has had some problems, but I believe he wants to be closer to his son, who lives in Jersey. And he’s getting help for his condition.
Like I said, this trade just seems boring to me. I am not excited to have Vasquez back. Something new and fresh in the rotation would have been cool.
Via Sherman:
Just got confirmed that deal is done
2 minutes ago from web
#Yankees figured Melky’s arb was going to be $3M-$3.5M, so they see Vazquez as more $8-$8.5M starter than $11.5M
#Yankees say Melky departure does not open door to Damon nor put Bay/Holliday in play. Still saying all too expensive
SI_JohnHeyman:
still available as free agents to #yanks for LF: holliday, bay, damon, dye, byrd. so they got some options.
UPDATE, 10:35 a.m.: Some (of many) outfield options: Holliday (obviously), Bay (obviously), Jermaine Dye, Marlon Byrd, Randy Winn, Rick Ankiel and – of course – Johnny Damon.
One I should add, too: The oft-mentioned Mark DeRosa.
Sam: about your 10:35 post – isn’t DeRosa the most likely option after a discounted Damon?
I doubt Cash and Girardi want to see Damon in left other than as an occasional fill-in. With Johnson signed, it would be a logjam. For the same reasons Cash chose not to go with both Hideki and Damon, they cannot now add Damon. Actually with the Yankees, you cannot say “cannot” since anything really goes.
Melky is up for arbitration. No longer a concern for the Yankees. That by itself saves a little.
When’s the last time a WS champ flushed their 5 hitter (and WS MVP), their established, proven 2-hitter and their young CF and brought back a guy at the heart of the franchise’s worst moment? We just flipped a third of a championship line-up for no good reason and got worse in the process.
Why couldn’t we have packaged Joba with some or all of the young talent that went in the Granderson/Vasquez deals for Hallyday, re-signed the old guard, and kept Melky in center?
—-
I honestly believe that the route we took landed us a better team than the route you just described,
Nick D.
December 22nd, 2009 at 10:34 am
this is a good trade ONLY if:
1) It means Damon or Holliday in LF (they aren’t going with Gardner or Rule 5 in leftfield….right?…..right!?!?)
2) It means Cliff Lee is a Yankee next year (with Vasquez and Pettite’s salary gone – vasquez = 11 million pettite = 11 million which will be lee’s 22 million next year)
——
This is RIDICULOUS. totally absurd comment.
this is a GREAT SUPERB deal even if the Yankees don’t make a single move for the rest
of the off-season and aren’t even players for Lee next year.
I don’t see how the inherent value in this deal is contingent on those things at all.
One of the most absurd comments i’ve seen up here all day
——————————————————
I wonder what the D in you rname stands for….I have an idea…
12 million dollars for a #4 pitcher who is at best average in the AL is not a good trade (regardless of who they gave up)if it makes your outfield worse AND isn’t made with 2011 in mind….
people were complaining that Melky in LF was a bad idea – now you have gardner or rule 5? Thats makes it worse..
Yup now i’m sure what that “D” stands for…
TNeloms -
Vazquez was a 4.8/5.1/4.8 WAR player in his 3-year stint with CWS from 06-08. Duchscherer was a 3.0 WAR player in ’08 which was his absolutely best year as a MLer…
“When’s the last time a WS champ flushed their 5 hitter (and WS MVP), their established, proven 2-hitter and their young CF and brought back a guy at the heart of the franchise’s worst moment? We just flipped a third of a championship line-up for no good reason and got worse in the process.”
You’re an idiot.
Seriously though, this is a phenomenal move for the Yankees, and it’s beyond absurd that people actually think a piece of garbage 4th OF is worth more than a great starter like Vasquez.
Howard,
Who is this young player who performs well and consistently you speak of?
Stultus Magnus : See above – Since Melky’s arb number was going to be $3 – 3.5 mil, the Yanks see Vazquez as an $8-8.5 mil pitcher – not $11.5
will have to check reaction to trade on BostonDirtDogs and SonsofSamHorn. That will tell yankee fans all they need to know
Javy…One interleague game in 2009…vs. Boston
BOS L 1-0 7.2 6 1 1 0 3 8 4 15 121
Hmmm….
Maybe he’s not the same guy you complainers remember…
“When’s the last time a WS champ flushed their 5 hitter (and WS MVP), their established, proven 2-hitter and their young CF and brought back a guy at the heart of the franchise’s worst moment? We just flipped a third of a championship line-up for no good reason and got worse in the process.”
————————————–
How often do WS Champs repeat?
Since I don’t see much of a market developing for Johnny Damon’s services, he seems like the most logical guy to bring back, especially if Cash can get Boras down to a 1 year deal with a mutual option for 2011 or something. That would mean on most days, Nick Johnson would bat 9th.
Doreen – Ain’t it Just “Grand”?
December 22nd, 2009 at 10:35 am
The “upgrade” over having both Joba and Hughes in the rotation is about innings, I would think. Hughes is on a limit; Joba, well, if he’s the Joba of 2009, doesn’t give more than 5. Andy can give 7 at times, but it’s probably best to anticipate more like 5 to 6, given his age. With Vazquez being able to pitch innings, you can break up Andy and Phil/Joba and not worry about killing the bullpen.
————————————————————
I think there was a news release from Cashman that said Chamberlain and Hughes had around 175-180 inning limits on the upcoming season. Forget where I read this, though. It was about a month ago. Maybe sam, Chad or Josh has it somewhere.
Chris,
I added DeRosa immediately because he slipped my mind as I updated. I definitely think he is a legit option. That said, Cashman clearly has a plan that includes thinking off-the-radar so …
Of those LF options, I would rank (in order of preference):
Holliday
Damon
Byrd
DeRosa
Dye
Bay
Winn
Ankiel
Marlon Byrd is a player. I live in Texas and watched him play. He would fit good in NYC — plays hard on every play and can get on base. Too many K’s tho.
Sux fan have got to be happy now,visions of 2004 just emerged!
They are chanting to Cashman gut gut baby!
Craw, Cano is super-talented, but very limited. He can’t hit with RISP, he can’t hit above the 6th spot…….and he sometimes needs a kick in the pants. He’s very good, but I’m very skeptical of him developing into a superstar – he has to fix his flaws first (I’m not saying be perfect, but how can he ever live up to his potential when he’s so awful batting anywhere but the lower part of the lineup).
Can DeRosa be a full time Left Fielder?
“The “budget” issue has really been posturing – while it clearly isn’t “unlimited”, there is a “soft” cap involved.”
Adding Holliday would make it a lot closer to “unlimited” than “soft”. He’d put them waaaay over $200M.
This is a bad deal for the Yankees. Vazquez stinks in the AL. He was crappy for the White Sox as well. I don’t see him repeating his NL performance in 2010.
“Some (of many) outfield options: Holliday (obviously), Bay (obviously), Jermaine Dye, Marlon Byrd, Randy Winn, Rick Ankiel and – of course – Johnny Damon.”
Holliday – yeah pretty good
Bay – can’t play LF, he’s awful out there
Dye – worst RF in the AL, i don’t even want to imagine what he’d be in LF
Byrd – not a terrible option, he’s pretty average in the field and at the plate.
Winn – No thanks, he’s old and regressing.
Ankiel – Pass, not very good.
Damon – Not really sure about him anymore. His 2nd half wasn’t that good and he’s atrocious in the field. He also makes the team too left-handed.
Are there any trade options out there? I’d make every effort to trade Joba before putting him in the pen full-time.
yanks gave up a lot for vazquez ! why not melky straight up?
Wonder of Yanks will sign Chapman to offset the loss of Vizcaiano and Dunn in the system
I’m sad to see Melky go, but this was a good move buy the Yankees.
Phil will likely start the year in the pen, because of his innings limit, with Joba in the rotation. Both Phil and Joba are starters that can relieve not the other way around. One of them could/would serve as the closer if Mo was to go down. If Joba is in the pen, he will likely be the next closer, but don’t count on Mo being done after 2010.
Left field will be Gardy’s to loose/platoon with Hoffman. Damon is not coming back; he has been replaced.
The Yankees are done making big moves until July 2010.
I like the Yankees approach. If we went out with the same team, we would not have won the WS again, IMO. No way Andy and AJ both start 30 games. Matsui or Damon or both probably would have underperformed vs. 2009, a bit. 2009 was lighting in a bottle, folks, rare that everyone is healthy when you have a number of players that are older (Andy, Jorge, Matsui, Damon, etc.).
So if Holliday is not in play, who IS in play for LF? Another trade?
“Sux fan have got to be happy now,visions of 2004 just emerged!
They are chanting to Cashman gut gut baby!”
—————————————————
lol. yeah right
i no doubt, they’re chanting something tho
RS fan I work with is pulling his hair out! Wonders where Theo is since RS not doing much and NYY keep improving!
“Vazquez wasn’t the second best pitcher in the NL
Carpenter
Lincecum
Jurrjens
Wainwright
Kershaw
Vazquez
At best he is the #6 ”
Sorry you’re wrong. He was the 2nd best starter in the NL last year. Look at his FIP, ERA, innings pitched, K’s. The only one better is Lincecum.
SORRY – false alarm on the post – it’s a new article (that’s been confusing!)
I think this is when the Metsies add that 5th guaranteed year to Bay’s offer…
YankeesWFAN Maligned NYY farm system still works when acquiring players from other teams. Still held onto Hughes, Joba, Montero, Romine.
1 minute ago from web
Didn’t Vazquez win a world series with the White Sox?
Let’s not forget Matsui/Damon were playing for contracts.
“This is a bad deal for the Yankees. Vazquez stinks in the AL. He was crappy for the White Sox as well. I don’t see him repeating his NL performance in 2010″
————————————-
lol
NO! I’m glad we kept Swish but giving up Melky to get back a pitcher who was lousy for us before? somebody help me understand this!
Boone Logan ERA 5.78 another Mitre whoop whoop!
So the trade wasn’t a hoax intended to get Holliday to sign? Lol
Good for Melky, obviously the Braves really like him as he was the only major leaguer included in the deal.
Now there’s no doubt they’ll be signing a left fielder. I think Damon comes back on the 2/20 deal that he proposed to Cashman last week.
Rishi: Totally irritating. Not sure about that tech glitch on the Twitter feed. Sorry.
sunny615 December 22nd, 2009 at 10:44 am
Stultus Magnus : See above – Since Melky’s arb number was going to be $3 – 3.5 mil, the Yanks see Vazquez as an $8-8.5 mil pitcher – not $11.5
================
Uh-huh, so that would mean they are not gonna get a left-fielder?
All that means is when they sign somebody for left who’s getting paid 6 to 7 million they can say he’s really costing us 3 to 4 million…
That comment makes no sense to me.
If Joba is in the pen, he will likely be the next closer, but don’t count on Mo being done after 2010.
___
Mo says he wants to play 5 more years.
I say, pay the man….
best ever!!!
“Wonder of Yanks will sign Chapman to offset the loss of Vizcaiano and Dunn in the system”
Yup.
And we still have Jesus/Joba for Maybin or Ross/Johnson? as a possibility.
who are the FA pitchers for next year we can choose from besides Cliff Lee?
Could Cash be thinking of a (gulp) Hoffmann/Gardner platoon?
Yikes.
Neil
December 22nd, 2009 at 10:38 am
Just a typical flying under the radar move courtesy of Brian Cashman.
Jon Heyman is stunned, confused, and walking around with a huge question mark over his head on why he didn’t see it coming. Maybe Cashman played him like a fiddle.
I’m now wondering if Wilkin De La Rosa will challenge Boone Logan for a lefty bullpen role in spring training.
Hey GB-7 ;
Another day without the smokies in the way ? Let’s hope so. Those hot dogs and beer will taste like sirloin and champagne at Charleston games.
————————————————————
Morning, Neill. I haven’t had a cigarette, yet. I didn’t even think about one. Now, I want to choke the Hell out of someone. Not enough to kill ‘em, you understand….just enough to scare them out of a pack of Marlboros.
Why does Sheets keep coming up in the threads.
Sheets is not an option for ANY team at the kind of money they are asking until he can get on a mound and prove he can pitch after his injury.
\
The same goes for Wang. I’ve been a Wang fan & I’d love to see him back, but no way do we do a deal till he gets on that mound & show he can pitch again.
Boone Logan is left handed, so he’s got that going for him at least. He just joins the ranks of guys competing for a spot in the bullpen in Spring Training. That will be an interesting competition to watch develop, given how many no-name guys will be out there competing for a spot.
Vazquez.. That really had come out of Left field (Melky Cabrera)…
The New York Yankees have acquired Javier Vazquez from the Atlanta Braves for Melky Cabrera and Mike Dunn, sources told ESPN The Magazine senior writer Buster Olney.
The Braves also are sending right-hander Boone Logan to the Yankees, sources said, and the Yankees are sending the Braves $500,000 in the transaction.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=4764085
GVCCV
December 22nd, 2009 at 10:50 am
Boone Logan ERA 5.78 another Mitre whoop whoop!
__________________________
haha
“Sux fan have got to be happy now,visions of 2004 just emerged!
They are chanting to Cashman gut gut baby!”
He pitched w/ a busted shoulder that yr. I don’t think they want to see this Vazquez.
Vazquez will be awful back in NY…
I’m glad it was for nothing, but this guy is going to suck.
Ugh
nope – Javy joined the sox AFTER then won… my bad.
John -
He’s probably thinking about that as much as he was about Bubba Crosby being our CF. Yes, it’s potentially an option but not one that I believe will ever come to fruition.
GREAT DEAL.
200 innings in exchange for Melky, a “project” (Converted OF Dunn) and a low level prospect. Great deal.
Forget Aroldys or whatever his name is. He’s too far away to really project. Dunn? How long before Dunn blows out an elbow or shoulder from “learning” the trade at this late date? Melky? Gotta give value to get value.
Javy? My wife is organizing a mini-Puerto Rican Pride Day parade as we speak. Anytime the Yankees acquire a prominent Puerto Rican ballplayer, it’s an approved trade in my house. For a No. 4 pitcher, Javy’s got to be seen as good or better than Daisuke from an innings perspective at least.
Lester, Beckett, Lackey, Dice-K, Wakes vs. CC, AJ, Pettitte, Vasquez and Philly Franchise?
I’m feeling better about the Yankee rotation than I did the day Theo signed Lackey to a Five Year Albatross Contract. Javy does well, keep him in 2011 AND sign Cliff Lee.
Please Cashman don’t load the team with NL bargains.Bosawx did last year and you know the rest.
“Didn’t Vazquez win a world series with the White Sox?”
Vazquez drove Ozzie crazy his final year with the WS, walking batters left and right. Anybody remember how he pitched for us in 2004? Guys who have great NL records don’t impress me when they don’t get it done in the AL.
Steal of a deal.
Takes Holliday out of the mix.
Johnny too unless he plays for 1yr/7 million.
They will add a LF.
Question is who.
They added Granderson and Vasquez this off-season and didn’t give up Phil, Joba, Montero, Romine or McAllister.
That’s great work by Cashman.
:This is a bad deal for the Yankees. Vazquez stinks in the AL. He was crappy for the White Sox as well. I don’t see him repeating his NL performance in 2010.”
Javier Vasquez FIP with White Sox 2006-2008
06: 3.86
07: 3.80
08: 3.74
Yeah, real “crappy”.
One thing I will say is that I LOVE Cash’s aggressiveness. He didn’t just sit on his hands during this off-season – he’s got a lot of smarts and a lot of guts, and I’m not sure which he has more of.
if he gets Vasquez again, Cashman is an idiot. he’s trading a decent outfielder and a promising lefty reliever for a proven loser.
Vasquez always runs up high K rates in the NL. He had that before 2004 too. I’ve seen this movie before, it stinks. 3 of the 4 years he pitched in the AL, Vasquez had an ERA over 4.5. i dread seeing the # of homers he’ll give up at home.
ugh.
I am very disappointed with this move. Can’t express it in words. Cashman: what are you doing?! I mean, Melky hasn’t exactly been the best player as of late, but to get Vazquez back after the headaches he caused us…I hope he knows what he’s doing.
Melky, you will be missed.
Besty – we won the world series and you are still complaining! It’s unbelievable. And to say they should trade Hughes??? Are you on crack?
This was a fantastic trade! We got rid of Melky (who is a 4th OF – but we already have a better 4th OF in Gardner). We get Joba back to the Pen because even with the innings limit Hughes is a better starter. And we get a very solid back end pitcher. And we gave up Dunn prospects who may or may not ever be good. Clock is ticking on guys like Mo, Jeter and Posada….glad to see the Yanks are gearing up for another major run.
Great job by Cash all around.
For all you delusional Holliday folks out there…he would struggle in LF in Yankee Stadium. You really need a CF to be playing left because of death valley.
For all you delusional Holliday folks out there…he would struggle in LF in Yankee Stadium. You really need a CF to be playing left because of death valley.
This is a masterstroke by Cashman.
While I hate to see Viz traded, he’s not even in low A-Ball yet, and the Yankees have a ton of projectionable arms in the lower levels of the system.
So essentially, Cashman just traded a fourth outfielder, an erratic reliever and a prospect for a guy who finsihed fourth in the NL in Cy Young voting.
It’s important to remember context. Vasquez will not be asked to be a staff ace this go around. Remember in 2004, he was the counter to Boston’s Schilling acquisition.
Much less pressure on Javy this time around. The Yankees now have three dominating strikeout pitchers on their staff.
Power pitching is what wins in the playoffs.
“Craw, Cano is super-talented, but very limited. He can’t hit with RISP, he can’t hit above the 6th spot…….and he sometimes needs a kick in the pants. He’s very good, but I’m very skeptical of him developing into a superstar – he has to fix his flaws first (I’m not saying be perfect, but how can he ever live up to his potential when he’s so awful batting anywhere but the lower part of the lineup).”
Betsy,
Cano has hit with RISP in prior years. Despite his high BA, he’s better than what he showed us last year and getting rid of Melky might forced him to concentrate more on his work and get him to mature into the kind of player the Yankees want him to be.
I don’t understand how this takes Damon out of the mix. The Yankees cannot be serious about going for DeRosa.
An excellent move- Vazquez is coming in as a #4- if he pitches like he did last year that’s crazy good- if he pitches as he has over the body of his career that is an excellent #4..Spoiled Yankee fans worry about game 5 of a playoff- the trick is to get to the playoffs first and adding Vazquez to the rotation provides the necessary quality and depth to make that more likely than it was yesterday..As for Betsy I admire her passion and she is a great contributor to the blog- her knee jerk negativity is sort of how she rolls so we should be used to that. Vazquez is not a stud but he is certainly not a mediocrity- look at his overall numbers- that represents in total a very sucessful career. He is also by all acounts a quality guy and not in the snarly puss Brown, Johnson, category.
Neill, I’m guessing that DeLaRosa is next in lone. I asked Chad about it the other day, and he didn’t think so, figuring Dunn would get the first crack at it. That may change very quickly, though. I’ve seen Boone and he’s got those up and down games. Maybe they make a run at picking up George Sherrill from the Dodgers.
Trade indeed 3-for-2. Did not have all details at time. Analysis of deal coming up on FOXSports.com.
http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/6932433727
Betsy–I love how you’re always positive. Thanks! (Not being sarcastic, seriously!)
Gardner / Hoffman are not credible options, we have to get somebody for LF.
SM: As the team currently stands, no one has said the Yanks are seeking another OF… tho they probably are, but in this trade, Melky for Javy is a difference of $8 mil. If you want to go bigger – subtracting Matsui’s and Damon’s $26 mil and adding Granderson’s and NJ’s $13 means the Yanks have so far, deducted $5 mil off the books. Make sense now?
I’ve got to be honest, I’m not at all crazy about the deal. They Yankees weakened their outfield and gave up a pretty high prospect in Dunn and their best pitching prospect in Vizcaino, all for a #4 starter. Why wouldn’t the Yankees just sign Sheets and hold onto Melky and their prospects? It doesn’t make much sense to me. It reminds me of in the past when the Yankees would acquire over the hill veterans for good young players and prospects. It makes their rotation a little better, but that could have been accomplished without giving up so much. If the Yankees sign Bay or Holliday I will change my mind, but now, I’m not too happy about this deal.
Where is Lost-In? I assume this now puts Holliday back with the Cards. Damon and the Yankees really need to get a deal done.
That was a compliment, by the way, to Cash…..he’s got a fantastic combination of both guts and smarts (even though I don’t love JV)
“Johnny too unless he plays for 1yr/7 million”
———————————————–
SJ: at this point, that may be his best offer
?
Take a look at Vasquez’s line against the Sox last year.
I see the moron population, ie: Sox trolls, have risen here today.
Must mean it was a good deal.
Sam Borden
December 22nd, 2009 at 10:51 am
Rishi: Totally irritating. Not sure about that tech glitch on the Twitter feed. Sorry.
========
No worries – I just need to read more carefully
Joba, Phil this is the Year you guys step up,or your trade bait too next year!
“Javier Vasquez FIP with White Sox 2006-2008
06: 3.86
07: 3.80
08: 3.74
Yeah, real “crappy”.”
Numbers don’t always tell the whole story. I live in Chicago and have a ton of White Sox friends so I know what I’m talking about. This guy is more frustrating than good.
During the regular season something I posted a couple of times was that were the yankees to win the world series in 2009, the rest of baseball should be very worried.
I didn’t have any idea what they would do – but I did have the sense that the 2009 team, as great as it was, was only a stepping stone to reconstructing the franchise in a fashion where they could pummel the rest of baseball for years.
And this off season that’s what we’re seeing Cashman, Hal and the entire organization implement the commitment to be great.
Take a step back and look at the free agent signings, trades, and minor league call ups the yankees have made over the past two years. It is breathtaking.
In fact – try to think back to the 2008 team – just try to picture it now.
I am astonished by this trade. To get Vazquez for what they gave up – when so many teams are looking for pitching is remarkable.
The Angels wanted Vazquez in a big way – and it was Cashman who pulls off the deal.
Just amazing.
And I say that as a guy who really does not want to see Arodys Vizcaino in this deal.
Regardless, this is a remarkable acquisition given the price.
I enjoy several Class A Tampa Yankee games every year & I’ll miss out on watching Vizcaino, but I will watch our OTHER Melky…..Melky Mesa OF
Wanted to mention that Vasquez had a better year in the NL last year than J Johnson (who everyone seems to think would be a slam dunk acquisition for the Yanks). Yet when we get Javy, all everyone wants to point out is that he’s “an NL pitcher”. Well, how do we know that JJ’s transition would be seamless. Don’t get me wrong, I think JJ is a beast, but considering the cost and short-term commitment, I think this is a nice trade for Cashman.
I like how all the trades were interrelated. Dunn couldn’t be in the Granderson trade, as discussions were evidently in process with Atlanta for Vazquez.
For anyone keeping tab, like I am, I estimate current projected payroll at approx $200.6MM as we speak, and we’re still ‘missing’ a LF’er.
Yankee fans who think Melky was nothing more than a fourth outfielder will miss his strong arm and throwing guys out. They’ll miss his speed on the bases and they’ll miss his clutch hits.
He handled the pressure here. All you can remember is everything going right from last year. You don’t remember all the players that we had that couldn’t perform in the Bronx. Melky didn’t have an ego like Milton Bradley or Shefield.
Lastly, the guy was improving each year maybe not with the speed the Yankees wanted but still improving. Traded a 25
year old for a 34 year old – so much for getting younger.
Was he a perfect player – NO – but neither is Vasquez and lets see how this guy does in a hitter’s park in the AL.
This could be one of those trades that sink Cashman. Amazing the Yankees are acting like they came in third in the AL EAST.
This is starting to look like over trading……
HC
“I see the moron population, ie: Sox trolls, have risen here today.”
SJ44, I’m no Sox troll and I don’t like the deal. You guys are so easily fooled by NL numbers. Mark my words – Vazquez will stink next year. And Johnson will be on the DL.
I agree it’s good Cashman did something, but this is not the something I was hoping for. Does anybody know how long the Braves are planning on holding on to Melky?
Anyone complaining about Vazquez just doesn’t get it.
You don’t even have to understand advanced statistics to see that Vazquez is a very good pitcher.
It stinks losing Cabrera, Dunn and Vizcaino but trading those guys for Vazquez is a huge win for the Yankees.
Even if Vazquez pitches to a 4.5 ERA (something I highly doubt he will do) he will still throw 200-220 innings which is exactly what we need.
Buster Olney does not mention Vizcaiano in his report of the deal. Only mentions Melky + Dunn and Yanks sending 500,000 cash in the deal. Sherman is the only one mentioning Arodys. Neither Rosenthal nor Olney mentioned him in the deal. So who’s right?
I wonder what the D in you rname stands for….I have an idea…
12 million dollars for a #4 pitcher who is at best average in the AL is not a good trade (regardless of who they gave up)if it makes your outfield worse AND isn’t made with 2011 in mind….
people were complaining that Melky in LF was a bad idea – now you have gardner or rule 5? Thats makes it worse..
Yup now i’m sure what that “D” stands for…
—–
I wrote a response to this but i think it got lost in comment purgatory.
Main ideas from that post that I don’t feel like retyping:
-You are wrong.
-How can the deal be good contingent on signing Lee and yet it doesn’t have an eye towards 2011?
-In the most airtight of vaccums this deal is an absolute steal.
-The Yankees could stick ANYONE in LF and they would still be the best team in the AL (and that isn’t to say I think they will. I believe they will bring someone in and be that much better).
-12 million isn’t that much for a pitcher that would be a #1 or #2 on any other staff in the league. Also its more like 8 million b/c of getting rid of Melky’s salary.
-You are wrong.
Laura–Agreed.
Something to consider, Javy 11.5 this year and Melky 3.5 wont be there next season. Matt Holliday 5/60 anyone? (15 AAV)
We go a little over this season, but still have flexibility for next.
Betsy,
Honestly when is the last time you liked a move by Cashman? You knock every deal he makes.
Solid trade. The Yankees just acquired a #3, #4 starter in the AL East, a proable #2 in all other divisions, for a 4th OF, and two prospects, one of which (Vizcaino) is highly regarded.
Similar to the Granderson move, the Yankees often maligned and overlooked farm system enabled the Yankees to pick up a key piece. Always a wonder how so called experts negate the yankees system, but somehow the actual other teams in which their opinion is the one that matters, do not.
Losing Vizcaino while it hurts, is manageable because the Yankees have other propect pitchers emerging that are 3 years or less away as was Vizcaino.
Excellent trade Cash. The Yankees got a reliable innings eater for prospects that they could afford to give up and a 4th OF.
Preisendanz December 22nd, 2009 at 10:55 am
For all you delusional Holliday folks out there…he would struggle in LF in Yankee Stadium. You really need a CF to be playing left because of death valley.
===============
This isn’t 1925. There is no “death valley” in baseball anymore…except maybe CitiField.
GB: I read somewhere that the IP for Joba was 190 and for Phil 150 to 160.
Don’t Vazquez AND Jose Contreras have W S rings?!!
Since Melky’s arb number was going to be $3 – 3.5 mil, the Yanks see Vazquez as an $8-8.5 mil pitcher – not $11.5
_____________
Trouble is this really isn’t the case. Melky wasn’t a pitcher, so removing his salary doesn’t affect the rotation’s salaries. The only thing this does is take off the dollars on whomever they get to play LF.
I don’t see Damon coming back as everything points to the role for him was DH who could back up in the outfield.
DeRosa is a possible, but being that he plays a number of positions it seems an odd choice.
I hope its not Bay. While I would have (and did) prefer him when it was the time of the Nady/Marte deal, his defense was a weakness in Fenway, it will be worse in NYS.
With two trades that have cost some good talent on the farm, it seems less likely for another trade to replace Melky in Left. I don’t see why they would get Granderson and move him to Left and have Gardner playing Center. I guess it could happen, but there is also no depth to the outfield now.
I’m not overwhelmed by this deal. I would have preferred to see Hughes and Joba in the rotation. I also have a hard time getting the earlier time with Javy out of my mind, so maybe that isn’t quite fair to him.
It just seems that this move made one area debatably somewhat better but left a larger hole in the outfield. There is some net gain, but unless a player is brought in, most of the move is negated with the loss of Melky.
Joe–Seriously, I think we’re reading different posts, because I thought she was sort of seeing both sides of it. Betsy, could you please clear this up.
This is a GREAT deal for the Yankees.
Time to let Melky go – he’s reached his peak and he was a 4th outfielder this season. He was not going to play LF.
As for Vizcaino and Dunn – classic tradebait arms. This is why Cashman has been hording arms at the lower levels.
Anyone who does not like this deal needs to do his/her homework on Javier’s numbers the past 5 years.
Wow, what a deal by Cashman. My Hat is off to him.
I’m not necessarily advocating it, but this deal would allow Cashman to trade one of Hughes or Chamberlain for a real outfielder. Could happen.
Damn…….I was hoping they would ship Gardner and not The Melk Man. I was actually looking forward watching him play in left and throwing base runners out at home. He has one strong arm.
Guys, last year we paid Matsui $12m, Damon $12m and Nady $10m (I think). Roughly $35m.
Granderson gets $5.5m, Johnson gets $5.5m, Swisher gets a $1.5m raise. Plus, Javy is an incremental $8m. That’s $20.5m.
So, assuming there are not a lot of big raises, we could spend $15m and still be break even with 2009.
Is that right ?
I just remembered we have Granderson…Okay, I’m starting to see Cashman’s reasoning here…
sunny615 December 22nd, 2009 at 10:57 am
SM: As the team currently stands, no one has said the Yanks are seeking another OF… tho they probably are, but in this trade, Melky for Javy is a difference of $8 mil. If you want to go bigger – subtracting Matsui’s and Damon’s $26 mil and adding Granderson’s and NJ’s $13 means the Yanks have so far, deducted $5 mil off the books. Make sense now?
===========
Hmmmm, but they are still missing that left fielder…
I guess that takes care the the 5 million off the books.
Laura there are AL numbers, as well, that say Vazquez is worth acquiring as a #4 starter and especially within the parameters of this trade. His performance in Chicago trailed off at the end of 2008, but his 3 years there were mostly good. If he replicates those years in New York he is winning double digit games next year.
Can this be a learning moment for those who are constantly promoting conspiracy theories and for those who buy into them.
Not only was last night’s “leak” NOT a smoke and mirror slight of hand to strengthen their bargaining position for a LF (like Holliday), but in if you follow that line of logic, it’s in fact the exact opposite.
Playing out that logic string, with their projected starting LF now traded, their perceived “bargaining position” with potential FA’s like Holliday and even Damon has theoretically been weakened.
Again, in theory, Scott Boras now has reason to believe the Yankees have to be in the market for one of his clients.
Babeball GM’s act and think with a LOT less indirect motivation and hidden agendas than some people imagine.
Sometimes a move is just a move, and a LOT less thought is given to the cloak & dagger bargaining ramification that some imagine.
As I say, learn from this.
“I was hoping they would ship Gardner and not The Melk Man. I was actually looking forward watching him play in left and throwing base runners out at home. He has one strong arm”
——————————————————
i’m thankful they shipped Melky and not Gardner. At the least, i love Gardner as a 4th OF’er
Gardner plus more prospects to KC for DeJesus anybody? Where’s Chip when I need him?
Joe CT – I love Cashman, I’m not sure what you are referring to. I liked the NJ signing….ME not liking JV has nothing to do with Cash.
As to the poster who said I wanted to trade Phil, that’s hardly true. I said that by the time Phil becomes a viable SP, he’ll be about 26/27/28….In that case, they might as well have traded him for something good. If you think I want Phil traded, you’re nuts. The reason I am concerned about his development is because if he develops properly, he’d be a heck of a young pitcher. I care about the Yankees future…..
Craw, you could be right. I do remember Cano hitting in the 2006 playoffs against the Tigers….he definitely has it in him to be great.
They shouldn’t trade EITHER Hughes or Joba. Bad idea all the way around. Especially after we gave up Melky…I see our team getting older again and I don’t appreciate it.
Vizcaino has the potential to become an ace in the major leagues. Only problem is, he’s never pitched above the NY penn league. Huge potential but also a high possibility of him busting simply because he’s so far from the majors.
Cabrera has a shot to be an average starter in the majors but he is never going to be a star. It’s much more likely that he would settle in as a 4th outfielder on a good team.
Dunn could be a decent set-up guy but his walks are very very troubling.
The Yankees definitely gave up some value but the guy they get in return is a stud. He was one of the top pitchers in the NL last year and even if you adjust for league change he was better than any pitcher on the Yankees or the Red Sox in 2009.
Everyone says he stunk with the White Sox but go look at his 2007 numbers, they are very good.
Excellent deal for the Yankees. Now it’s time to get a LF.
Via Sherman twitter:
Yankees insisting still that they will be under $200M payroll, which means bargain bin for LF if they hold firm
Whoa, just saw this post now! I’m a Melky fan, so I’m not happy about this. And Vazquez seems like an NL pitcher to me. But I guess as a #5 he’ll be OK in the Yankee rotation. But I hate giving up Melky for him.
JeterJobaCanoFan2010
December 22nd, 2009 at 11:03 am
GB: I read somewhere that the IP for Joba was 190 and for Phil 150 to 160.
————————————————————
That may have been the numbers, though I could see Hughes going to 175 if he has a number of short, stress free innings.
I don’t see why people love this deal? The Yankees gave up A LOT for a 34 year old #4 starter. I wouldn’t mind giving up Melky and Dunn, but I am shocked that the Yankees gave up Vizcaino, who had a 2.13 ERA in A-ball last year. Yes, 2.13!!!
The Yankees improved their starting rotation, but they also weakened their outfield, and gave up their #3 prospect. I really don’t like the move at all, especially with pitchers like Sheets available!
Javy did not earn a ring with the White Sox.
White Sox won in 2005.
Javy was in Arizona.
“Again, in theory, Scott Boras now has reason to believe the Yankees have to be in the market for one of his clients”
—————————————————–
your post is well taken. However, Boras as no leverage on the yankees at the moment. I believe SJ44 would agree
Not that it matters, people just keep talking about that though…
edit: has no
GEORGE STEINBRENNER IS BACK
HC
“So, assuming there are not a lot of big raises, we could spend $15m and still be break even with 2009.
Is that right ?”
No.
Here’s the bottom line on this trade –
Melky Cabrera was sent down to the minor leagues in 2008. This past year, when he did perform much better – he was a league average CF.
It would not be surprising if next year Melky wound up being a player somwhere in between what he was in 2008 and what he was in 2009.
And they traded Melky as the centerpiece for a guy who is a good to very good pitcher and will be the best #4 starter in baseball headed into the season.
Frank Wren must have loved Mike Dunn and Vizcaino, but I can’t believe he couldn’t get back more from another team.
I thought the yankees could get Vazquez but that they would have to trade Swisher for him.
That they traded Melky for him instead of Swiswer is really something.
How much would Byrd be asking??
All Hail Joel Sherman!
It seems like a desperation move in order to counter the Red Sox signing Lackey. The Yankees should have been patient and waited for something better to come along. Not a fan of this move AT ALL.
Melky had a certain charm, stealing that HR from Manny a couple of years ago, getting some walk off and game winning hits last year, hanging out with Mary Carey in a Motel 6 with his farmer tan…. Last year I did see him miss the cut off guy more than a few times and his throws were becoming less accurate. There was always a cloud about him partying to much with Cano. Still, he was by no means a garbage player.
But if Melky was the centerpiece of a trade for a 200 inning pitcher to fortify a rotation whose back end was/is innings limited… then I say great. I mean, does anybody seriously think Vasquez makes the rotation worse than 2009? There’s still Marte, Gaudin and Aceves for insurance, assuming Joba is relegated to the pen.
rconn23,
Great post @ 10:55. Couldn’t agree more.
Also from Sherman:
With Vazquez, #Yankees will try to save some $$ by trading Gaudin or Mitre to team seeking backend help before spring training ends
Frank – why is it wrong ?
Were all Yankee fans here cmon lets just be happy. We are still the BEST team in baseball.
nyp_joelsherman #Yanks felt could spend on SP or LF, and would rather be vulnerable in LF than rotation, so money on Vazquez not on LF
If I was Damon, I’d do an A-Rod. Blame the negotiations and the bridge-burning on Boras, and crawl back to the Yankees. There’s no market for him, and he’s gonna regret it when the Yankees win #28 next year!!
transmission allowed:
“You can please some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time”
“There only can be one. There can be no other.”
” I have seen the enemy and he is me.”
End transmission.
The difference between javy then and javy now is there is no pressur eon him of the fans depending on him to be the future of the staff, he can just come in and pitch like he has done for years and been a pitcher in the Major Leagues that alot of higher ups have loved. The team atmosphere is 200 times better than it was in 2004. how is this not a good deal, Arodys is 18 years old and while he shows promise he could easily amount to nothing as a ML pitcher, he could walk out into the street be hit by a car mess up his shoulder or soething and never pitch again. ONCE AGAIN JAVY CAN JUST COME IN AN JUST BE JAVY, HE DOES NOT NEED TO BE THE SAVIOR THIS TIME.
If I were the Yankees I’d put Hughes back in the pen, and let Joba go in the rotation. Chamberlain has a higher innings limit in 2010, it’s time to see what we have in this guy now that he has no limits/rules. Hughes can get innings in the pen and stretched out if someone goes down. Vazquez and Pettitte are off the books in 2011 so 2 spots are still open for Joba and Phil.
The bottom line is, these guys have to pitch well in the rotation to stay in the rotation. They will have opportunities in 2010 to prove themselves. I think Cashman realizes that we can’t reserve spots for them like what happened in 2008. If Joba and Phil pitch well spots will be made for them.
Bob
December 22nd, 2009 at 11:03 am
Don’t Vazquez AND Jose Contreras have W S rings?!!
—————–
Not Vaz. He was in Arizona in 05
Guys, get real on Sheets. Last time he pitched 200 innings was 2004!!!
Okay, he pitched 198 in 2008.
Of couse, he missed all of 2009.
You can’t sign him and hope he pitches like it is 2004 again. Give him a Jon Lieber deal, but you can count on him.
Boras has no leverage with the Yankees now.
Dylan,
Do you have any idea how to read minor league stats?
Viz has never played above short season ball.
In other words, his stats are meaningless.
“I really don’t like the move at all, especially with pitchers like Sheets available!”
What exactly do we know about Sheets accept that nobody has seen him throw since 10/2008? Vazquez is an innings eating horse, who posts very solid numbers. Sheets? Notoriously made of glass. Shows flashes of brilliance but nonetheless has a career ERA of 3.75 in the NL.
Vazquez > Sheets
MTU: i think the gig is up
Melky’s arm = one of the most rated things in Yankees history.
Solid arm? yes. Cannon? NO!!!!
I can’t see Damon accepting a one year deal at around $7 mil…
crap, meant overrated
Stockpile and wait to see if anybody is needed at the 7/31 trading deadline.
Take a lower cost free agent like Marlon Byrd who can play all OF positions and hit a little. Josh Hamilton was on the DL much of 2009 and Byrd covered very well for him.
Joe from CT–it’s hard to just be happy when the team made a potentially bad move here. I’m happy with Granderson, but I fear we’re making too many moves this offseason. Last year we had the perfect mix, and we’ve already changed too much…
Without a doubt the Yankees will be over 200M payroll. They still need a LF and that will cost at least 5-6M.
Lots of yankee fans don’t like Vazquez. That’s fine.
But that also doesn’t change the fact that Vazquez pitched like a #1 starter this past year – and was 4th in the NL Cy Young voting.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he had a better year next year than AJ.
Dylan,
If that’s a “desperate” trade, I hope they make more of them.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
SJ44,
I’m sure he was rated the #3 overall Yankees prospect, and their best pitching prospect because he doesn’t have a ton of potential.
“Gardner plus more prospects to KC for DeJesus anybody? Where’s Chip when I need him?”
No. It seems like the Yanks have made their backup OF decision… and Gardner will stay. Remember, there isn’t a lot of major-league ready OF depth in the minors.
“I think Cashman realizes that we can’t reserve spots for them like what happened in 2008. If Joba and Phil pitch well spots will be made for them.”
Patrick that is the key, and that is why I disagree with all the complaints happening right this second about what this does to their development.
Boras’ clients always get the most $$, so I’d say if the Yanks saved some money with this Vazquez deal, Boras has some leeway with respect to negotiation. However, if the Yanks have spent pretty much all they plan to, Boras has no chance.
So how do the Yanks get to the 185 million payroll mark that they were talking about three weeks ago?
Viz pitched in the New York Penn League which means the Yankees have opportunities to replace him with pitchers they drafted in 2009 or the IFA signing of Cabrera and that’s still not taking in account the possibility of signing Chapman.
One of Joba or Phil just became a whole lot less valuable to the Yanks.
It occurred to me before as a possibility, but suddenly it seems far from a remote possibility that Cashman packages up one of our pitching wunderkind duo and gets a good, cheap OF (read, much better than Melky) in return.
who will sign with NYY in LF for 5-6 mil?
How is Byrd’s defense out of curiosity? Don’t know much about him.
Mr. Jaggers, thanks for the kind words…I appreciate it.
Vizcaino’s stats are indeed meaningless but from all reports I have read he is a legitimate talent. Perhaps the highest ceiling of any pitcher in the Yankees system. I’m not going to make like it doesn’t hurt to lose him – it does – but what we are getting in return more than makes up for it.
Valerie,
I dont think this is a bad move at all. I dont really get where this is coming from? How is a guy who had a 2.87 ERA 15 wins and 238 K’s who is now our FOURTH STARTER a bad move for a below average OF, and two arms who none of us here besides probably SJ have any clue how good they really are. Dont really see the “potential bad move” here
NYY has a chance to move the probable $4 mil contract of Gaudin for a couple of prospects to open up some rome to sign a left field option that’s better than Damon. The bullpen just got stronger.
“Howard Cosell December 22nd, 2009 at 11:00 am
Yankee fans who think Melky was nothing more than a fourth outfielder will miss his strong arm and throwing guys out. They’ll miss his speed on the bases and they’ll miss his clutch hits.”
I agree, people act like he was a bench player….he played well and was clutch…Gardner other than his legs is useless
-You are wrong.
-How can the deal be good contingent on signing Lee and yet it doesn’t have an eye towards 2011?
-In the most airtight of vaccums this deal is an absolute steal.
-The Yankees could stick ANYONE in LF and they would still be the best team in the AL (and that isn’t to say I think they will. I believe they will bring someone in and be that much better).
-12 million isn’t that much for a pitcher that would be a #1 or #2 on any other staff in the league. Also its more like 8 million b/c of getting rid of Melky’s salary.
-You are wrong.
———————————————————-
1) so then 50% of the bloggers are also wrong – according to Mr. D….
2) rich harden who is 10 times better than vasquez (and has proven it in the AL too) signed a 7.5 million contract – THATS a good deal –
3) anyone who starts using questionable math (its really only 8 million when you take away the 3 million from babe ruth’s 1921 signing bonus blah blah blah) needs to get out of his mom’s basement and start living in the real world..it doesn’t work that way
4) if i’m wrong i can’t even begin to think of the word to describe what ideas come out of your head..
5) merry christmas..
*except rather than accept
Me = stooge
Byrd is apparently signed with the Cubs so that option is gone.
Dylan,
Vizcaino DOES have a lot of potential. But he’s at least 3 years away from the majore (probably 4). A lot can happen in those 3 – 4 years and you can’t let a 19 yr old pitcher hold up this type of trade. The yanks have a lot of high upside arms in their system. You can afford to lose one here and there.
some ***rome*** to sign
ROOM
Transmission allowed:
Gardener is not our FT LF.
End Transmission
Joe–look at his stats from when he was on the Yankees.
SJ44,
I do know what I am talking about. I obviously just value the farm system more than you. The reason the Yankees didn’t win any championships between 2000 and 2009 was because they traded high prospects for past-their-prime prospects like Vazquez.
It seems like a desperation move in order to counter the Red Sox signing Lackey. The Yankees should have been patient and waited for something better to come along. Not a fan of this move AT ALL.
—–
Are you kidding me? The yankees have said that they wanted piching all along and they obviously weren’t enamored with any FAs. I don’t think much better was coming along man and other teams were in on these Atlanta pitchers.
Thought we could use a fresh post. Come on over. Also, live chat on the blog at 3 p.m. today! Be there!
Trading Gaudin to open up money to spend elsewhere makes sense, but he is so much better than Mitre, that the idea that it would pave the way for seeing more of Sergio Mitre in 2010 is not good news to me.
tex’s friend–there are a few. dejesus, for instance.
“1) so then 50% of the bloggers are also wrong – according to Mr. D….”
Anyone who thinks this is a bad deal for the Yankees is wrong. I don’t mean to be a jerk but it’s the truth.
“2) rich harden who is 10 times better than vasquez”
Except he’s not better than Vazquez!
I understand that now that George is back running the show the Yankees will sign Thome (one of his favourites)as the DH and then trade Nick Johnson to the Mariners for Jay Buhner so the Yankees will have a righty/lefty DH combo.
Can’t comfirm the rumour of trading Austine Romine for Jamie Moyer.
HC
Frank – I think, now that 200 innings are a little secure with Vazquez, they can now take a chance on signing someone like Deuscherer, Sheets or Wang. At a relatively cheap price w/incentives of course.
Any of the 3 of them are now bring less of a risk to the overall rotation, and if it pays off … well, ‘you can never have enough pitching’ is how the saying goes.
By the time Arodys is ready for the majors, half the Yankee roster will be different. Hell, from the time between the 2007 playoffs, and the 2009 playoffs, they turned over half the roster.
Vazquez ERA in the American league is 4.54…National league is 4.12..maek of that what you want
“Last year we had the perfect mix, and we’ve already changed too much…”
“We fear change.”
Garth Algar.
CountryClub,
Thats a good point. If it was for a young arm, I would be all for the trade. I guess I’m just not as high on Vazquez as a lot of people on here.
Dylan,
clearly, the YANKEES didn’t rate him as their third best prospect. It doesn’t matter what a website thinks. That’s what you fail to grasp.
Kids like Viz are a dime a dozen at the lower levels.
Young, RH, good arm action, 4-5 yrs away from the majors.
Those guys are prime trade bait. Especially for a deep with a ton of RH pitchers in their system than the Yankees.
new post
I’m heading over to the new thread.
Vazquez and Posada are close. I also remember Posada saying Javier was hurt in the 2nd half of the 2004 season.
Jim M
December 22nd, 2009 at 11:13 am
Bob
December 22nd, 2009 at 11:03 am
Don’t Vazquez AND Jose Contreras have W S rings?!!
—————–
Not Vaz. He was in Arizona in 05
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Both Contreras and Vasquez got rings as members of the 2007 White Sox.
I would sign Marlon Byrd for left field..he’d come around for $5 mill per year for 2 yrs..he is a 280 hitter 20 hrs 80 rbs….good outfield arms, good hitting..joba as the 8th inning guy..Hughes fifth starter..wow..we can hang with Boston’s lineup and then some.
murphydog–I do not fear change; I just fear altering the Yanks team so much we don’t have the same chemistry, and same success, this year.
I sure am going to miss Melky. He was fun to watch. Loved it when he got his triple to complete the cycle. Was he pumped. I would love to know what he really said in Spanish when he was safe at 3rd base.
But as much as I like Gardner I can not see him as a starter in the outfield.
This team is going to be so strong that I worry upcoming players will be blocked. Our infield is solid, the outfield is getting stronger and the rotation is getting stronger also. Well, after all it is a business.
None of this makes any sense – the Yankees will have no pen by the time the offseason ends. I don’t care if they dump Mitre, but I like Gaudin
“SJ44,
I do know what I am talking about. I obviously just value the farm system more than you. The reason the Yankees didn’t win any championships between 2000 and 2009 was because they traded high prospects for past-their-prime prospects like Vazquez.”
You’re wrong! The reason why the Yankees didn’t win WS championships between 2000 and 2009 is because they failed to execute in 2001 and were unlucky in 2003. Secondly, they drafted very poorly during those years and could’ve done a better jog on the international market. Thirdly, our owner failed to allow his GM to do his job without interfering with him and in the meantime allowed a fractured organization become counterproductive.
Wow… this is just absurd.
Newsflash Yankee fans: MELKY CABRERA IS NOT THAT GOOD.
He’s a 4th OF at very best. He can’t hit his way out of a paper bag and he’s an average fielder.
Trading him for a guy who was one of the best pitchers in baseball last year is a terrific move.
Seriously, anyone who thinks this isn’t a good deal for the Yankees… is just wrong. I don’t know how to say it any other way.
Eh
Melky was blah, not sad to lose him.
Vazquez is also crap, al east fodder.
THIS is the big trade?
Koolaid drinkers drink deeply while the rest of us giggle.
Excellent point made by Sherman, Melky would have gotten $3-3.5M in arb, now Vazquez is like a $8-8.5M for this year.
There’s a risk associated with any deal and certainly Vasquez comes with questions, but he is a very durable guy and when he keeps the ball in the park he’s outstanding.
His troubles in NYC were overblown and he never should have been traded. In 2004 he was 13-6, 4.12 after 23 starts before he started losing velocity, later attributed to a sore shoulder.
The big issue with Vasquez is the long ball, but having him gives the Yanks great flexibility and all but assures that either Hughes or Joba will be the 8th inning guy which further strengthens the bulpen.
Assuming Hughes or Joba go to the pen (and not AAA), it does not lessen their long term value. The Yanks will need two starters next yr (Vazquez and Pettitte coming off the books) and I doubt they will sign two FA pitchers.
So you could very easily see Hughes and Joba both in the rotation next year. Especially if Joba pitches a full season this yr with no issues.
I still think the yanks will start Hughes in AAA and let him pitch 100 innings there and then call him up mid season to bolster the pen.
I’m heartbroken. I’ll sure miss Melky. He was my favorite Yankee.
I think Vazquaez will put up his normal “AL” numbers-13-15 W’s with a 4.50 ERA. Not bad, not great but it will be fine as the Yank #4 starter.
The deal makes sense on most fronts. Yanks gave up a fair price. I am sure they didnt want to give up their so called “3rd” best prospect but you have to give to get.
I’ll take 200 solid innings from our #4.
SJ44,
You are underrating Vizcaino a bit. His ceiling is as high as anyone in the Yankees system.
That being said, I don’t disagree with you a bit. While Viz has a ton of potential his trade value isn’t all that high. Chances are he will never make it to the big leagues, let alone reach his ceiling.
Valerie G.–BRING BACK MELKY!
December 22nd, 2009 at 11:21 am
Joe–look at his stats from when he was on the Yankees.
————–
He had a very good 1st half (All Star) of the season and struggled in the 2nd half with a sore shoulder. Like a lot of players that come to NY, he didnt tell the training staff about the injury because he didnt want to let people down.
I really wouldnt look to closely at his 2004 season.
“I’m sure he was rated the #3 overall Yankees prospect, and their best pitching prospect because he doesn’t have a ton of potential”
——————————————————
the ranking of Vizcaino of a #3 overall prospect is moronic. And that even includes RAB, if they indeed did
SJ, with Boras now having no leverage with Cash, what do you think the NYY will do wih LF?
I hate this move, this is not a move to save salary so you can stop saying that, had we not got vasquez we would have had more flexibility then getting him. he broke down mentally in the second half and in the playoffs when he was here. the nl does help your stats if you are a pitcher so anyone saying otherwise is ignorant. i think arodys was too good to put in this deal, we give up a mlber and 2 top prospects for a full price 1 yr rental AND we kick in 500k, come on cash, cashman is an overrated GM
I sure am going to miss Melky. He was fun to watch.
————————————————-
if we can get Hoffmann to put a empty box of David sunflower seeds on his head, he can be fun to watch too
The Yankees are not going into 2009 with Gardner or Swish as our LF. I certainly hope it’s not DeRosa. I wouldn’t count as out of Damon or Holliday.
Guys, last year we paid Matsui $12m, Damon $12m and Nady $10m (I think). Roughly $35m.
Granderson gets $5.5m, Johnson gets $5.5m, Swisher gets a $1.5m raise. Plus, Javy is an incremental $8m. That’s $20.5m.
So, assuming there are not a lot of big raises, we could spend $15m and still be break even with 2009.
==============
Wang – $5MM
Matsui – $13MM
Nady $6MM
Molina – $2MM
Bruney $1.2MM
Cabrera – $3MM
Damon – $13MM
Kennedy/Coke/Dunn = $1MM
= $44.2MM
Granderson – $5.5MM
Swisher – +$1.5MM
Vazquez – $11MM
Pettitte – +$1MM
Johnson – $5.5MM
Sabathia – +$9MM
Jeter +$1MM
= $34.5MM……They’ve lowered payroll about $10MM from 2009….with Gardner as the current LF. This whole $200MM max stuff was nonsense and nobody should have bought into it.
JeterJobaCanoFan2010
December 22nd, 2009 at 11:24 am
I sure am going to miss Melky. He was fun to watch. Loved it when he got his triple to complete the cycle. Was he pumped. I would love to know what he really said in Spanish when he was safe at 3rd base.
——————————-
Melky literally said ” damn..co-ks–kers”
But me being dominican you can take it as him saying ” yeah I told you so”.. or something of that sort
the stars are aligning for Matt Holliday…
Love the move, hate the fact that it means Joba will most likely be in the pen.
He should start in AAA and continue to develop as a starter. This is career suicide for someone who has a chance to be one of the truly elite pitchers in major league baseball. Phil doesn’t yet have that potential.
Its unfathomable to me that Cashman is giving up on this guy after the glimpses he showed in 2008 and the fact that he was coming off a significant shoulder injury in August of that year. He hasn’t been the same pitcher since then, as a starter or in the bullpen. If Joba returns to the ‘Joba of old’ this year in the pen then we can only ponder what the hell he’d be doing as a starter.
If he’s healthy and ready to go he’s the best starter we have not named CC. And he’ll be wasted in the ‘eighth inning role’ that’s bar none the most overrated commodity in the game today.
What is the current Bullpen situation assuming Joba moves to the Pen?
1. Mariano
2. Joba
3. Marte
4. Robertson
5. Aceves
6. Melancon
7. Gaudin
Also have De larosa, Abalajdejo, edwar, boone logan, and mitre
any opinions?
To all, I ask:
WHO RELIEVED KEVIN BROWN IN GAME 7 OF THE 2004 ALCS? WHO?
WHO GAVE UP THE GRAND SLAM TO JOHNNY DAMON? WHO?
I know we’re not supposed to judge players on one inning, but I’m just laying out the karma so everyone is on the same page here.
Absolute steal!
Sab
Rich Harden won’t pitch anywhere near 200 innings this year.
If Yankees are trying to move Gaudin or Mitre to free up a minimal amount of cash that does not bode well for signing any big free agent OFer. So that isn’t great. Remember, they moved Bruney for essentially nothing to free up cash. So if anything this signals to me that we can expect Rick Ankiel, Nady or someone like that in the OF this year, not Damon, Holliday or Bay. Not that I want Bay at all. Too many teams hate his defense and don’t think he can physcially hold up. Plus don’t want another .250 hitter with well over 100ks a year.
“Howard Cosell December 22nd, 2009 at 11:00 am
Yankee fans who think Melky was nothing more than a fourth outfielder will miss his strong arm and throwing guys out. They’ll miss his speed on the bases and they’ll miss his clutch hits.”
==========================
Sorry Mom but —
4th OF – that’s his level of ML performance.
Strong arm – but not accurate; therefore almost useless.
3 stinking assists – you call that impressive based on all those innings he played ?
Speed ??? Yes; faster than Molina and a few others – otherwise, he often looked like a lost and confused FOZZIE BEAR on the basepaths.
Clutch hits – yes last April & one in May, credit where credit is due…
But – GEEEEEEZ….what a lopsided trade for us !!!
Thanks Cash, Hal, & Hank !!!
I will miss Melky but this cant be seen as a negative. Javy will be a nice addition to provide depth. I dont know much about Viscaino. This is a good deal to me.
My two cents on all the goings-on:
The deal is a good one for the Yankees. Melky was a good guy and solid player and young as well, but he’s frankly a fourth outfielder, especially on the Yank. Dunn has promise and Vizcaiano has a very high ceiling, but he’s several years away. My only concern is we gave away too much long-term. The argument that we could have/should have held our chips and gone out and gotten Sheets makes some sense, but it’s not a bad gamble. I’ll take my chances on Vazquez, who’ll either thrive or dive. If all that AL-NL talk is true and he sucks, it’s one year and out, and we’ll probably get draft picks out of it with which we can re-stock the minors.
Holliday or Damon. Either works for me. For the sake of retaining some of the 2009 team chemistry, and if the Yankees really need to keep the budget in check, then by all means bring back Johnny. But if we open the piggy bank a little for Hollidaym, that’s fine, too. My bleacher seats will still cost the same $14 next season even if we go a few million over budget.
Joba and Phil. I like both these guys, but I’ve felt since first seeing them play in Scranton that Joba was a reliever and Phil was a starter. It seems, just reading the pulse of the Yankees, that management feels that way as well. Plus, we’ve now given up some solid relievers, making Joba all the more important as part of the bridge to Mo. And one day, it pains me to say, Mo will hang it up, and it may fall to Joba to fill that role. Better he prep for it now, while Mo is there to provide counsel and leadership by example.
Cashman. There’s a lot of Cash-bashing going on on LoHud. I’d like to point out that we WON the freakin’ World Series this past season. Hello. And a lot of that was thanks to Cashman’s guidance, patiences and wheeling-dealing. Do I think the guy walks on water? No. But he pushed the right buttons last year and I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Happy holidays, everyone.
Sign bay
Good post Joe and same to you.
My two cents on all the goings-on again (because I’m anal and I caught two typos!) —
The deal is a good one for the Yankees. Melky was a good guy and solid player and young as well, but he’s frankly a fourth outfielder, especially on the Yank. Dunn has promise and Vizcaiano has a very high ceiling, but he’s several years away. My only concern is we gave away too much long-term. The argument that we could have/should have held our chips and gone out and gotten Sheets makes some sense, but it’s not a bad gamble. I’ll take my chances on Vazquez, who’ll either thrive or dive. If all that AL-NL talk is true and he sucks, it’s one year and out, and we’ll probably get draft picks out of it with which we can re-stock the minors.
Holliday or Damon. Either works for me. For the sake of retaining some of the 2009 team chemistry, and if the Yankees really need to keep the budget in check, then by all means bring back Johnny. But if we open the piggy bank a little for Holliday, that’s fine, too. My bleacher seats will still cost the same $14 next season even if we go a few million over budget.
Joba and Phil. I like both these guys, but I’ve felt since first seeing them play in Scranton that Joba was a reliever and Phil was a starter. It seems, just reading the pulse of the Yankees, that management feels that way as well. Plus, we’ve now given up some solid relievers, making Joba all the more important as part of the bridge to Mo. And one day, it pains me to say, Mo will hang it up, and it may fall to Joba to fill that role. Better he prep for it now, while Mo is there to provide counsel and leadership by example.
Cashman. There’s a lot of Cash-bashing going on on LoHud. I’d like to point out that we WON the freakin’ World Series this past season. Hello. And a lot of that was thanks to Cashman’s guidance, patience and wheeling-dealing. Do I think the guy walks on water? No. But he pushed the right buttons last year and I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Happy holidays, everyone.
When the NYY got Vazquez Part Uno – all the Boston fans(!) & Yankee haters were claiming the Yankees were “stealing” another ring, and the Expos were being doormats! Then JV handed out 4 nails that got hammered into the ’04 coffin lid, and gee, no Red Sux complained. I can’t wait to see how this turns out…
I am really interested to see what this means now. I’m sure alot of people think this is a precursor to Holliday.
…at least Christmas dinner will taste that much better for Brett Gardner & Jamie Hoffmann ( who looks remarkably like Dustin -hmmm)
Just bring Johnny back now.
http://www.h-rush.com/?@?G?b?`?`???b?g