It’s official: Vazquez to Yanks in a 3-for-2
Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Dec 22, 2009 
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Here’s the press release from the Yankees. Don’t forget we’re doing the Live Chat right here at 3 p.m. today!
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NEW YORK YANKEES ACQUIRE RIGHT-HANDED PITCHER JAVIER VAZQUEZ
The New York Yankees today acquired right-handed pitcher Javier Vazquez and left-handed pitcher Boone Logan from the Atlanta Braves in exchange for outfielder Melky Cabrera, left-handed pitcher Michael Dunn, right-handed pitcher Arodys Vizcaino and cash considerations.
Vazquez, 33, went 15-10 with a 2.87 ERA (219.1IP, 181H, 70ER, 44BB, 238K, 20HR) with Atlanta in 2009, finishing fourth in National League Cy Young Award voting. He ranked second in the NL in strikeouts, strikeout-to-walk ratio (5.41) and opponents’ on-base percentage (.266); third in strikeouts per 9.0IP (9.77); tied for fourth in wins; fifth in innings pitched, opponents’ batting average (.223) and hits allowed per 9.0IP (7.43); and sixth in ERA. Over his final 22 starts of 2009, Vazquez posted a 2.49 ERA with 160 strikeouts and just 29 walks in 155.1IP, while limiting opponents to a .217 average.
Since 2000, he has recorded at least 10 wins and 150 strikeouts each season, making him just the 10th pitcher in Major League history to accomplish the feat according to the Elias Sports Bureau. Eight of the other nine pitchers are in the Hall of Fame. Over the same 10-year stretch, Vazquez ranks second in the Majors in innings pitched (2163.0), strikeouts (2001) and starts (327), while tossing at least 200.0 innings in all but one season (198.0 in 2004).
Originally selected by Montreal in the fifth round of the 1994 First Year Player Draft, Vazquez played his first six Major League seasons with the Expos from 1998-2003, compiling a 64-68 record with a 4.16 ERA (1229.1IP, 568ER). Prior to the 2004 season, he was traded to the Yankees in exchange for first baseman Nick Johnson, outfielder Juan Rivera and left-handed pitcher Randy Choate. In his lone season as a Yankee in 2004, Vazquez made the American League All-Star team, going 14-10 with a 4.91 ERA (198.0IP, 103ER). On January 11, 2005, he was traded with left-handed pitcher Brad Halsey, catcher Dioner Navarro and cash considerations to Arizona for left-handed pitcher Randy Johnson.
In a 12-year Major League career with Montreal, the Yankees, Arizona (2005), the White Sox (2006-08) and Atlanta, Vazquez owns a 142-139 record with a 4.19 ERA and 2,253 strikeouts. He is under contract through the 2010 season.
Logan, 25, went 1-1 with a 5.19 ERA in 20 relief appearances with Atlanta in 2009 (17.1IP, 21H, 10ER, 9BB, 10K, 1HR), holding first-batters-faced to a .158 (3-for-19) batting average. He also posted a 4-2 record with a 3.28 ERA (26H, 13ER, 17BB, 39K, 2HR) in 35.2 innings pitched with Triple-A Gwinnett. Prior to the season, he was acquired with Vazquez from the Chicago White Sox in exchange for infielder Brent Lillibridge, catcher Tyler Flowers, infielder Jon Gilmore and left-handed pitcher Santos Rodriguez. Originally drafted by the White Sox in the 20th round of the 2002 First-Year Player Draft, Logan eventually signed with the club on May 26, 2003. Since making his Major League debut in 2006, Logan owns a 5-5 career record with a 5.78 ERA in 164 relief appearances (127.1IP, 158H, 82ER, 58BB, 102K, 17HR).
Cabrera, 25, set career highs with 28 doubles and 13 home runs in 2009, batting .274 (133-for-485) with 66R and 68 RBI in 154 games (130 starts). He tallied three “walk-off” hits in 2009, marking the most by a Yankee since Claudell Washington had four in 1988. On August 2 at the White Sox, he became just the 11th different Yankee – and first since Tony Fernandez on September 3, 1995 – to hit for the cycle. In 569 career games with the club, Cabrera batted .269 (518-for-1,923) with 250 runs, 90 doubles, 12 triples, 36 home runs, 228 RBI, 171 walks, a .331 on-base percentage and 38 outfield assists.
Dunn, 24, saw his first Major League action in 2009, posting a 6.75 ERA without recording a decision in four relief appearances as a September call-up (4.0IP, 3H, 3ER, 5BB, 5K, 1HR). He combined to go 4-3 with two saves and a 3.31 ERA in 38 relief appearances in 2009 with Double-A Trenton and Triple-A Scranton/Wilkes-Barre (73.1IP, 58H, 27ER, 46BB, 99K), allowing just two of his 12 inherited runners to score and making the Eastern League midseason All-Star team. Originally drafted by the Yankees in the 33rd round of the 2004 First-Year Player Draft, Dunn is 24-15 with a 3.62 ERA (375.1IP, 335H, 151ER, 166BB, 390K, 28HR) in 110 career minor league games (49 starts).
Vizcaino, 19, went 2-4 with a 2.13 ERA (42.1IP, 34H, 18R, 10ER, 15BB, 52K, 2HR) with Single-A Staten Island in 2009. He made his professional debut in 2008 with the Gulf Coast League Yankees, posting a 3-2 record with a 3.68 ERA (44.0IP, 38H, 22R, 18ER, 13BB, 48K, 5HR) in 12 games (six starts). Originally signed by the Yankees as a non-drafted free agent on July 2, 2007, from Yaguate, Dominican Republic, Vizcaino is 5-6 with a 2.92 ERA (86.1IP, 28ER) in 22 career minor league games (16 starts).
The Yankees’ 40-man roster now stands at 37 players.
Good Job Cashman
Ladies and Gentlemen, your 2010 Yankees are going to be an absolute wrecking ball of a team. This is gona be fun.
repost:
Lost-
I have not waivered.
But I cannot know the size of Cash’s checkbook.
Will Boras capitulate ?
hope so.
Cash has a value.
hoping for a match.
I await your update.
Signed,
fly on the wall.
Graet deal for The Yanks…….Now Joba will be in the pen, Hughes in the 5 slot…..Does Johnny Damon come marching home, or will it be Matt Holliday ????
The Melk Man will be missed. One of my favorite players. Sad day for all Dominicans and even worse for Cano.
Very nice. I’ll miss Melky, but wish him the best of luck in Atlanta.
“Now Joba will be in the pen, Hughes in the 5 slot”
Are you sure about that? We’ll have to deal with the same things that Joba went through last year with Hughes (innings limits, fatigue, and the inconsistency you expect out of a young starter) and morons will come out wanting him in the bullpen as well.
“LOL I know, soo many people were against it last year when we brought up Johnson’s name. Yeah there still are right now, but not much”
————————————————-
Ed: I was referring to Matusi. You, myself, and like one other person had Matusi’s back and were predicting big things for him in 2009. The m@sses wanted him traded to the Giants or off the team
BC: “Hey Scott!”
SB: “Yeah Brian?”
BC: “Just letting you know Johnny Damon will not be in our plans this year. We’re going with Nick Johnson.”
SB: “Really? Any chance you will take Johnny for two years at $20M?”
BC: “No, too late.”
Three days later…
BC: “Hey Scott!”
SB: “Yeah Brian?”
BC: “Melky’s gone. We’ll take that deal with Johnny now.”
Sweet.
(repost):
“5/82 for Holliday is a steal for whichever team gets him (although I think it will be slightly more). ”
I thought the yanks signing Holliday was a 20-30% chance before today.
Now I’d say it’s a 5% chance.
Nonetheless, whoever signs Holliday at this point will get a great value.
And if the yankees pass on Holliday his year at around 5/82 I really hope they have another plan than signing carl crawford next year.
“Ed: I was referring to Matusi. You, myself, and like one other person had Matusi’s back and were predicting big things for him in 2009. The m@sses wanted him traded to the Giants or off the team”
LOL oh yeah,I totally forgot about it.
According to his record, Vazquez is barely a .500 pitcher. Who was it that posted that he was better than Andy & AJ?
5% for Holliday?
The yankees are already better than they were last year on paper IMO.
Now the question becomes is that good enough or do they separate themselves even more from the pack.
CB
December 22nd, 2009 at 12:44 pm
“5/82 for Holliday is a steal for whichever team gets him (although I think it will be slightly more). ”
I thought the yanks signing Holliday was a 20-30% chance before today.
Now I’d say it’s a 5% chance.
Nonetheless, whoever signs Holliday at this point will get a great value.
And if the yankees pass on Holliday his year at around 5/82 I really hope they have another plan than signing carl crawford next year.
————————————————————
I have real concerns over making a run at Crawford in 2010. His legs have taken a beating for a long time on that turf. Once his speed diminishes, he’s an average player at a high cost.
CB-
I am surprised by what you say ?
I guess you think Cash’s checkbook is smaller than I do ?
I do not think Cash would leave Matt on the board at that price.
As you said great value.
I say great fit.
And CASH likes good value if he can get it.
Much more than 5% for me.
I respect your opinion.
97-98 wins is not enough.
Matt makes us ?
20000000000 wins !
go for it.
JMHO.
Who can resist a good bargain in this economy? Just get Holliday, Cash! Get him, budget be damned!
Is there a chance that cashman has a deal in place with Damon before he made this trade?? I dont think he will go into the negotiating table with boras now?
and dont forget, supposedly cashman offered to match any offer wang gets. So we will be stacked in pitching.
“5% for Holliday?”
That’s too high,IMO.
5% chance of getting Holliday?
I’m scratching my head.
who currently is the highest paid outfielder in mlb?
GB7,
I’m really not a big fan of signing Crawford to the kind of deal that he’ll likely get next year when he’ll be the only plus outfielder available.
The Trop has awful turf and I could just see Crawford turning into Andre Dawson over the life time of that deal.
The yanks have done great. Hopefully they’ll have more rabbits to pull out of hats to figure out what to do with LF long term.
But that will be a worry for another time.
This is a good deal for the Yankees and a weird one for the Braves. They basically gave him away. Melky is pretty average all around.
CB,
Why would the percentage go down for Holliday if they just traded away their left fielder and Damon is an adventure out there? I would think the percentages would sky rocket.
CB, this trade doesn’t change the fact that LF is an issue. I love the trade but it actually made the LF situation worse. Holliday is still the best value they are going to get at that position for quite awhile I would say. If they signed him Then the payroll would be slightly higher than last year instead of slightly lower. Does that really matter in the grand scheme of things if they are fixing a problem longterm for a bargain price? Not my decision but I don’t think it does.
Keith Law’s take:
For the Yankees, adding Vazquez means that either Joba Chamberlain and Phil Hughes will start the year in the bullpen, and probably signals that the Yankees feel that one of them belongs there, most likely Hughes at this point. If the organization believed that both pitchers would eventually work out as starters in the majors, they’d be more willing to give them both rotation spots and back them up with a lesser option than Vazquez, who was, as you might have heard, the second-best pitcher in the National League this year.
At this point, the Yankees now have a rotation close to that of the Red Sox, and they could very well enter 2010 a better team on paper than they were at the same time before 2009.
==================
http://insider.espn.go.com/esp.....=law_keith
For LF, IF no Holliday :
Younger, faster, more athletic
reasonable value- fits budget
works with the specs for the MACHINE.
FA is preferrable.
Who does it point towards ?
Example:
Would Byrd be a good fit.
who else ?
Trades are the next level.
Great trade. And to think some say that Cashman is only good at FA signings. He surely doesn’t get enough credit for being the Architect of this team.
no longer is the boston rotation considered the deepest or more talented. The Yankees match up well.
CC – Beckett
AJ – Lester
Pettitte – Lackey
Vazquez – Dice-K
Joba/Hughes – Bucholz/Wakefield
Advantage Yankees.
The Yankees have traded away potentially almost $5.5 MM in payroll thus far:
Brian Bruney $1,500,000
Phil Coke (L) $432,575
Mike Dunn (L) $400,000
Melky Cabrera $3,000,000
Total Traded: $5,332,575 (all figures include arb increases where applicable)
But it leaves us at slightly over approx $200 MM right now in actual salary (not AAV).
Don’t be so sure it’s Joba to pen.
Joba doesn’t have innings limits anymore and Phil still does.
I think Cashman will send them both to Spring Training with the proviso that the best performance gets the rotation spot and the other pitcher sets up Mo.
Joba loves money. The difference between what a reliever makes and what a starter makes is astronomical.
This may inspire him to come to camp in shape and ready to dominate.
I think Joba’s ceiling is higher than Phil’s, but Phil takes the game more seriously.
It’s going to be interesting to see who lands the 5th spot.
why has the nick johnson move been announced yet??????????
the yanks are not getting holliday…
trade gaudin or mitre and put joba in the pen not hughes…..
and dont forget, supposedly cashman offered to match any offer wang gets. So we will be stacked in pitching.
That’s of course supposing that Wang gives the Yankees the chance to match a contract offer.
bye melky…this will be a good trade in the long run.
Laura, I watch Fringe. It’s awesome although I was disappointed they killed off Olivia’s partner so soon. Thought he was solid.
So long, Melky.
Here is a time-saving tip for everyone. When discussion returns bull-bore back to LF, everyone with a strong opinion should just go back and find all their posts over the last 7 or 8 days, and using WORD simply do a search on “Melky” or “Cabera” and replace it with “Gardner” or “GGBG”.
That way we can all relive the same exact discussions with having to retype for previous posts.
Spoiler Alert!
I think the deal made sense for the Braves. They aren’t going to be contending this year anyway. They gave up a 34 year old pitcher, who they probably weren’t going to resign, and in return they got a starting CF, a great pitching prospect in Vizcaino who is a couple years away, and a talented more major-league ready pitching prospect in Dunn.
It’s a Yankee retro winter.
first Nick Johnson.
second Javy Vazquez.
what do they say about things happening in threes?
my “I’m never right” prediction:
Juan Rivera in LF.
The salary is right.
Maybe Gaudin and prospect for Rivera?
G. Love-
You are like a Laser.
“and dont forget, supposedly cashman offered to match any offer wang gets”
He didn’t say that. He said he’d like the opportunity to match. If someone offers Wang a straight up major league deal (as opposed to the Yankees split deal), he’s probably gone. If split deal is the best he can get, then it’s likely with the Yankees. However, at 30 and coming off an injury he needs to consider what’s in his best interest and serving as a “#6/in case of emergency” starter may not be it. I’m a little skeptical of projections that have him ready by May, but even if it’s June or July, the opportunity to immediately step into a rotation in say, Philadelphia or perhaps Queens, might trump not necessarily having that opportunity in the Bronx.
“Why would the percentage go down for Holliday if they just traded away their left fielder and Damon is an adventure out there? I would think the percentages would sky rocket.”
Prior to getting Vazquez the yankees could have signed Holliday and sort of kept their budget at 2009 levels (I believe).
Now they can’t do that. They would have to go into a much higher strata and that decreases the probability of them signing Holliday precipitously.
The much higher probability now is that the team will sign a relatively low key LF for a year and then look to make a trade for a younger LF as they’ve done with Swisher and Granderson.
5% is around where I’d put the probability.
But then, this time last year I thought the yanks had a 15% chance to sign tex!
According to Law, the Yankees rotation still isn’t better or even equal to the Red Sox. Just “close to that of the Red Sox.”
Great points about JV and his propensity for giving up HRs – that will work out well in YS for sure.
CB, I agree about Crawford….but we do need a LF. I really don’t want to make any more trades and deplete our farm system any further…..
The only part of Law’s take that I disagree with is that I think Cashman would rather have Joba in the pen than Hughes.
As for LF – I still don’t think it’ll be Damon.
I also don’t think it will be Holliday or Bay.
As for Byrd – I’m leary of bringing him in here just because last year was so above the norm from anything he has done in his career.
I really don’t know who the Yankees plan to play in LF – I can’t see them making a third trade at this point.
I suppose it’s possible but not probable that they let Gardner and Hoffmann battle it out for the spot in Spring Training.
Cahman must be an idiot. He missed signing Matsui and got Nick Johnson who spends most of his time on DL for the same price. Gets rid of our only superb defensive outfielder for Vasquez who is not able to pitch in NY. Let us go get Contrares and may be Irabu to complete the rotation. Why screw with what is not broken. He destroyed the yankee outfield
eric in queens, on Fringe, there’s two of everyone.
For the fans who are expecting Vazquez to put up the kind of season he just did for Atlanta, they will be disappointed.
For the fans who understand that the Yankees acquired a #3 or 4 starter who will have @4.50 ERA with some great moments and some very frustrating times; they gave up very little to do so, and it will be a fine move.
The rotation is very similar to what they had going into ’09. The difference is that they have a healthy Vazquez vs. an injured Wang, and a Hughes-Joba competition instead of Joba only. On balance they should be better this year.
CB-
consider these ideas:
Soft-cap
Inherent value
“a bird in the hand is better than 10 in the bush”.
P.S. If you were wrong last year on Tex.
I hope you are wrong again.
At least on this.
Im not in love with Vasquez , but we get a decent number 4 starter.
Im just worried come playoff time.
I don’t like Vasquez, but I really detest Keith Law. Take anything he says with several enormous grains of salt – he hates the Yankees.
Cash has been doing a good job.
I really like the JV addition to the starting rotation.
I hate to even bring it up, because I like him so much, but the guy I worry about in the rotation is Andy Petitte.
Will he make it through the year? I sure hope his back holds up for the entire year.
Having a glut of back-end rotation pitchers will prove beneficial if Andy struggles or if there is an injury, so I unless it brings us a MLB caliber LF in a trade, I’m in favor of keeping Gaudin & Mitre around.
We would still have Aceves/Joba/Phil for back end too.
If I’m Damon, I’m calling Cash myself and trying to work something out.
Well Law is wrong.
Yankee payroll last year was $226MM, and they paid nearly $26MM in luxury tax.
Yankee payroll last year was $226MM, and they paid nearly $26MM in luxury tax.
Beckett
Lester
Lackey
Dice- K
Bucky
Wake
CC
AJ
ANDY
Javy
Joba
Phil
I have no faith in Beckett, Dice K or Wake – and don’t buy the Lackey Hype – - – But I’m a Yankee fan
At least three of the six Red Sox starters were hurt last year and missed significant time. Right now, I say the Yankees are at least equal to the Red Sox rotation.
Heres a curve ball for you. What if both Joba and Hughes told Cashman they did not want to pitch from the pen. Therefore Cashman might pull the trigger on unloading one for a left fielder and sign someone like Escobar for the pen. Who would be worth trading one of them for?
CB
December 22nd, 2009 at 12:56 pm
GB7,
I’m really not a big fan of signing Crawford to the kind of deal that he’ll likely get next year when he’ll be the only plus outfielder available.
The Trop has awful turf and I could just see Crawford turning into Andre Dawson over the life time of that deal.
The yanks have done great. Hopefully they’ll have more rabbits to pull out of hats to figure out what to do with LF long term.
But that will be a worry for another time.
————————————————————
Yeah, he’s logged over 100 games a year on turf between The Trop, Metrodome and Rogers Centre. Toss in all of the sliding on steals and that’s brutal on the legs, for a guy who’s games depend on speed.
NYY can patch in left field, though getting Holliday wouldn’t make me cry.
as far as the budget goes, Kid Steinbrenner and Cashman aren’t necessarily in agreement, at least publicly. Steinbrenner says it depends on whether it makes sense and Cashman says it’s a hard set.
Also, NYY is suppsedly looking to move either Mitre or Gaudin (both arbitration eligible). Wonder if NYY should ship Gaudin and an arm or maybe a Corona type player to LA for Sherrill? Salaries would even out.
“According to Law, the Yankees rotation still isn’t better or even equal to the Red Sox. Just “close to that of the Red Sox.”
IF Beckett and Matsuzaka pitch their best, Lester and Lackey do what they normally do, and Bucholz/Wakefield pitch to @5.00 ERA, they are better.
But, Beckett has been very inconsistent, Matsuzaka is a long way from his best, and there are reasons why the Angels didn’t pursue Lackey.
Both rotations should be very good, if the Yankees sign Holliday, it would negate any pitching advantage Boston MIGHT have when they are head to head.
If I’m Damon, I’m calling Cash myself and trying to work something out.
=========
Better yet. Have his wife call ala Alex and have her negotiate for him.(i hope he isnt reading this. I dont want him back in left.)
On Damon:
MO.
Low probability.
Why ?
The Yankees do not see him as a FT LF, or even a majority LF.
They see him as a more of a DH.
Hello NJ.
Could they do it.
sure.
If he is cheap enough.
might make sense.
Personally I dont think he fits with the Whole that well anymore.
Also,
Dont like Johnny’s D very much. Especially every day.
Dont want to see Gardener have to be out there too much.
Hoffman is not proven.
We’ll see.
Uncle Ellsworth (Expert textpert choking smokers, don’t you think the joker laughs at you)
December 22nd, 2009 at 1:09 pm
I have no faith in Beckett, Dice K or Wake – and don’t buy the Lackey Hype – – – But I’m a Yankee fan
***************
I’m with you, Uncle E. I don’t think much of any of them (but if I did it wouldn’t make me much of a Yankee fan, would it?)
It would not shock me if Cash, holds onto the extra money he has for a trade deadline move and starts the year with Gardner and Hoffman in LF
With all these trades that went on, I really don’t see the Yankees making another one to plug the hole that is LF.
There is only so many trades you can pull off before it depletes the farm system. There are, of course, some pieces left, but how much do you keep trading before you are left empty?
I don’t see the Yankees feeling Gardner is the one to cover Left. I also tend to doubt, but acknowledge its possible, that Granderson will be moved to left and Gardner covers center, but there is no backup for the outfield. Gardner as backup makes more sense.
Seems to me that they will have to go to the FA market for an outfielder over making another trade.
I still don’t get how no one was able to find out about this trade last night.
“Steinbrenner says it depends on whether it makes sense and Cashman says it’s a hard set.”
Because it’s a misdirection argument that the Yankee Brass is throwing out there. When the Yankees address their LF situation then we’ll see which is true.
The days of being afraid of the Red Sox pitching are OVER
“Yankee payroll last year was $226MM, and they paid nearly $26MM in luxury tax”
It was $226M for luxury tax purposes, which include bennies and the entire 40 man. Actual salary to the 25 man was a little over $201M. Right now it hovers around $195M (does not include Igawa’s $4M or Miranda and Brackman).
For lux tax purposes, they’ll probably be up around $220M+ again, but they can get actual payroll of the 25 man in at or just under $200M by moving Gaudin or Mitre and locking up a non-Bay/Holliday LF. Would Damon come back for $7M now maybe? Byrd? DaRosa? We’ll see.
Uncle-
Why stop there ?
The one certainty you’re going to get from Javy Vazquez is innings. In a rotation with AJ’s sketchy injury history (though he’s been healthy the last two years), Andy’s age, and who knows what from Joba/Hughes having another workhorse to go with CC is a major plus.
If Damon “really” wants to come back and has a touch of realistic self-worth, he will do an “Arod of 07″ and contact Cashman directly and determine IF the Yankees are willing to reconsider on realistic terms.
He “may” (tho I personally doubt it) have a second bite at the apple. Do we really think that Girardi and Cashman want to see the Damon Follies again perform in Left field?
I’m still getting hateful emails from my White Sox friends. Thanks, Cash!
Wonder how much the Yanks are gonna give Chapman ?
Given how the Red Sox had the starters last year for the post season, I would think that they view Lester as their number 1, Beckett as their 2. Lackey is their 3.
Not that it matters that much, but their faith in Beckett has fallen a good deal after two declining seasons.
I agree.
“Well Law is wrong.”
Thanks for the interesting and informative post.
“I’m still getting hateful emails from my White Sox friends. Thanks, Cash!”
When the Yankees celebrate another WS title next year, you’ll get even more hateful email from them.
“What if both Joba and Hughes told Cashman they did not want to pitch from the pen.”
Same thing that happened when my 5 year old said she didn’t want to eat the lasagna being served that night.
Abda-
cause they run a tight ship over there.
And CIA tactics can be effective.
I don’t necessarily want Damon out in LF either. However, what’s the affordable alternative?
George Steinbrenner getting anxious………..
12/22/09 AP reports Cashman to be GM of Trenton Thunder.
12/22/09 AP reports Steinbrenner not willing to replace Montero for Romine in trade for Moyer but willing to add pitcher Ivan Nova.
HC
Right now, the known factors in the Yankee bullpen are:
Rivera, Robertson, Marte (L), Aceves, and most likely Hughes.
With the depth of the rotation from the Vazquez trade, Aceves becomes the swing man, for long relief/spot starts, so there’s no longer a need for Gaudin, who has significant value, or Mitre, who has less value (after arbitration, together they will earn about $3-4 million).
That leaves room for 2 more arms. Melancon will get an opportunity, but there’s still room for another veteran arm, most likely a lefty.
A pitcher who was awful years ago for the Yankees
A pitcher who was above average in a weak NL
for Melky?
Crazy move. Vasquez is a slight upgrade to Mitre and Guadin nothing more than that. You would think Cashman would see how NL pitchers do in the AL.
quickly, Smoltz and Penny and Padilla couldnt get anyone out in the AL this year and were real good in the NL
Cliff Lee was Sandy Koufax in the NL
The days of being afraid of the Red Sox pitching are OVER.
=======
U.E.,
I agree. Its not like they have Pedro, Schill and Lowe at the top of their rotation anymore.
My bet is DeRosa comes in on a one year deal for around five to seven. His dream, as a Jersey Guy, was and is to wear Pinstripes. It then keeps the table clean for Crawford in 2010.
“I’m really not a big fan of signing Crawford to the kind of deal that he’ll likely get next year when he’ll be the only plus outfielder available.”
If the Yankees are planning on going after Crawford, that is a very risky move:
1) He is a different player than Holliday, but not nearly as good.
2)Chances are pretty good that the Rays re-sign him.
3)The turf/legs issue that has been mentioned
4)He is a speed guy who hates to hit leadoff
5)They would be going into 2010 with a lesser team, possibly wasting a year of the open window for guys like Rivera and Posada.
6)They are banking on a continued bad economy if they are counting on Crawford, otherwise they will have to give him a more expensive contract than they would have to give Holliday right now. Doesn’t make sense to give more money to a lesser player.
Abdab
Fun Beatles thing last night.
What’s to stop the pen from performing so well in spring training and early on, that Hughes/Joba aren’t needed there?
If the pen is looking solid enough to get through the regular season schedule and the starters are giving length, why not keep Joba and Phil developed as starters and plan for next year when Pettite + Vazquez are gone?
Even if they sign Lee, they’ll need 1 more starter in 2011.
Actually, after we won this year, my WS friends were very gracious and congratulated me. It’s interesting to note that my friends who are Cubs fans did not.
Saint-
Boone logan is a lefty reliever.
let’s see what he has this Spring.
He was once good for the W. sox
Lester /= AJ
Lackey </= Javy
Dicey K = Pettitte
Buchholz < Hughes/Joba
Seems to me the middle of the rotations are fairly even in matchups. The top and bottom looks to lean toward the Yankees.
Beckett and AJ both have Jekyll and Hyde performances.
As you look at the lineups though, the Yankees look to be a more rounded lineup with more power. There is a hole in the lineup for LF.
Come on guys don’t undervalue the Red Sox rotation.
1)Beckett- a solid ace
2)Lester- solid ace
3)Lackey- a average #1 or a very good #2 starter
4)Dice-K- either very good or very bad
5)Bucholtz- inconsistent now but young and promising
6)Wakefield- has been a solid #5 starter for awhile
Compared to the Yankees.
1)Sabathia- best pitcher on either team
2)Burnett- great stuff but extremely inconsistent
3)Pettite- always consistent should have ERA in mid 4′s
4)Vazquez- inconsistent but solid #3 starter
5)Hughes- great stuff but still needs to learn how to pitch
6)Wang?- terrible last year but was an ace before then
I think the Red Sox definitely have the better (or at least the more consistent staff) however, the Yankees lineup blows the Red Sox’s out of the water. The Yankees are also a better fielding team and have a much better bullpen, especially if they can use Joba there.
What is Javy’s contact ????
You cant WAIT for CC.
He may not be available next year ?
Want to base your goals on a maybe ?
Not me.
Pat M
December 22nd, 2009 at 1:24 pm
What is Javy’s contact ????
11.5
December 22nd, 2009 at 1:17 pm
“What if both Joba and Hughes told Cashman they did not want to pitch from the pen.”
Same thing that happened when my 5 year old said she didn’t want to eat the lasagna being served that night.
=========
Replaced it with Chef Boy R.D. Ravioli?
Uncle Ellsworth (Expert textpert choking smokers, don’t you think the joker laughs at you) December 22nd, 2009 at 1:21 pm
Abdab
Fun Beatles thing last night.
__________
I agree. It was a blast. Funny how so many of their songs seemed appropriate to the situation.
Pat M
December 22nd, 2009 at 1:24 pm
What is Javy’s contact ????
————————————————————about $11.5 mil, Pat
Adba-
AND it is going to be filled.
Presently.
CB, the vazquez deal adds roughly 8 million to the payroll for next year.
If Holliday would have fit in the budget before this trade then is 8 million bucks for one year going to change their mind? Maybe it will but when you consider that signing someone else later may cost more than Holliday does now I think that changes the equation.
Uncle Ellsworth (Expert textpert choking smokers, don’t you think the joker laughs at you)
December 22nd, 2009 at 1:21 pm
Abdab
Fun Beatles thing last night.
*******************
What Beatles thing??????
Buster_ESPN Part of the reason why the NYY believe Vazquez will be better this time around is his arm angle-which was down in 2004,affecting his sinker.
1 minute ago from web
“Cliff Lee was Sandy Koufax in the NL”
Actually, he wasn’t. His ERA was higher with Philly last year than with CLE(3.39-NL/3.14-AL). His 2008 ERA in the AL was 2.54.
He was Sandy Koufax, however, in the playoffs against the best NL teams, and against us in the WS.
“Replaced it with Chef Boy R.D. Ravioli?”
Hell no! I wasn’t an abusive parent.
She ate the lasagna.
Well that explains CB’s 5 % on obtaining Matt Holliday or even Damon if the club is steadfast to the budget….Whos’in left ????
People always overrated Josh Beckett. The fact is he doesnt come close to Sabathia or aces like him. Yet he gets treated like one.
Uncle-
You didn’t like my Movie, Literature, Philosophy, or Physics Motiff ?
Shame on you.
success not equal
December 22nd, 2009 at 1:20 pm
A pitcher who was awful years ago for the Yankees
A pitcher who was above average in a weak NL
for Melky?
Crazy move. Vasquez is a slight upgrade to Mitre and Guadin nothing more than that. You would think Cashman would see how NL pitchers do in the AL.
quickly, Smoltz and Penny and Padilla couldnt get anyone out in the AL this year and were real good in the NL
Cliff Lee was Sandy Koufax in the NL
———————————————————–
Someone call Bellvue.
Vasquez is a slight upgrade to Mitre and Guadin?
Someone call Bellvue.
What Beatles thing??????
Friday morning at nine o’clock she is far away
Waiting to keep the appointment she made
Meeting a man from the motor trade.
Forget it. I’m calling Bellvue, cause you’re NUTS!
Now that the rotation is set…
Sign Holliday for LF before Christmas.
Done.
Thats the funniest thing I read all day.
“Heres a curve ball for you. What if both Joba and Hughes told Cashman they did not want to pitch from the pen. Therefore Cashman might pull the trigger on unloading one for a left fielder and sign someone like Escobar for the pen.”
Joba or Phil telling Cash where they want to pitch? Um, no. But if it happened, IMO, it would be Joba. And he would be traded, not put in the rotation.
BTW, which one of the ESPidiots commented on Joba last year that pitchers like him are gone in five years anyway? Was it Stark or Law?
Crazy move. Vasquez is a slight upgrade to Mitre and Guadin nothing more than that. You would think Cashman would see how NL pitchers do in the AL.
–
Mitre and Gaudin were both NL pitchers.
Vasquez has spent significant innings in the AL.
Vasquez is a far superior pitcher to Mitre or Gaudin.
Uncle Ellsworth (Expert textpert choking smokers, don’t you think the joker laughs at you)
December 22nd, 2009 at 1:29 pm
What Beatles thing??????
Friday morning at nine o’clock she is far away
Waiting to keep the appointment she made
Meeting a man from the motor trade.
*********************
I still don’t get it though-what do you have to do, continue with the lyrics?
Cashman isin’t going to decide which kid goes to the pen…. a competition will.
Cashman isin’t putting Joba in the pen if he comes to camp in shape with his 2008 velocity and outperforms Hughes. If Joba is motivated… watch out…
It’s a decent trade, although it probably could have been done for less.
My God, doesn’t anyone remember Vasquez in 04? He’s already shown that he’s incapable of pitching in NY. That pitch to Damon will be what he’s always known for. I’m not a big Melky fan, but Vasquez is a disaster waiting to happen.
What about Phil (if he’s the one in the pen) as a long-man? I like that a LOT better than if he’s the set-up man. By going multiple innings, Phil can use all his pitches and possibly go through lineups more than once
Pat-
I would wait for confirmation from our Watergate figure before drawing the conclusion that the budget is so tight.
He seemed to indicate that it isn’t as tight as CB, or others think it is.
No disrespect to anyone but I think he would know better dont you ?
He might check in later with an update.
I hope he does.
Matty for the 5 hole Pat.
Make yourself happy.
JJ
December 22nd, 2009 at 1:32 pm
Cashman isin’t going to decide which kid goes to the pen…. a competition will.
Cashman isin’t putting Joba in the pen if he comes to camp in shape with his 2008 velocity and outperforms Hughes. If Joba is motivated… watch out…
**********************
Exactly. I think spring training is going to be VERY interesting.
Vazquez pitches a gem.
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....8;c_id=mlb
Reading some of these posts makes me want to shoot myself in the face. Some of you people are just so stupid, I can’t stand it any more
Seems like Yanks are saving $$$ with last few moves. Hope that translates into a big signing soon.
Please Vasquez is not a # 3 starter in the AL east. he is a number 5 Hes a # 3 in the NL
Seriously people…
The Yankees gave up a fourth OF, a LHP who walks too many guys and a 19-year old in the Penn League for a guy who would be a number two starter on most teams.
I know, Javy left on a really sour note, but the bottom line is that the Yankees have a far better rotation now than they did when the season ended.
Melky Cabrera is what he is, a light hitting CF with poor instincts and a strong arm. Guys like him grow on trees in this league.
In 2009 Javier Vazquez was 15-10 with a 2.87 ERA, and he was:
– 3rd in WHIP.
– 4th in Walks per 9.
– 2nd in strikeouts.
– 2nd in strikeout/walk ratio.
– 6th in ERA.
– 5th in innings pitched.
All in all getting the second best pitcher in the NL last year to be your #4 in the rotation can’t be a bad thing for any reason whatsoever !
The Yankees aren’t going after Holliday unless they dump Swisher’s contract.
They now NEED to sign Chapman to replenish the farm.
What about Phil (if he’s the one in the pen) as a long-man? I like that a LOT better than if he’s the set-up man. By going multiple innings, Phil can use all his pitches and possibly go through lineups more than once
–
Phil is too good for mop up duty, but if I wanted to keep him developing towards being a starter I’d do that. Though I’d just stick him in AAA until he is needed, ’12 best pitchers’ garbage from SJ and the like be damned.
Beckett had a 3.9 and 4 earned run avg. his last 2 seasons. I had no idea that makes someone a SOLID ACE. Funny how C.C. didnt make that list.
A guy that made the all star team in his one season as a Yankee is “incapable” of pitching in NY? LOL
These posts get dumber by the hour.
Vasquez has pitched significant innings in the al since his last stay in ny. He has had over 200 ks the last 4 years or so. This is a good move. He takes the mound and goes.
I hope the Yankee fans give Vasquez the proper thanks for his great job vs Boston in game 7.
He stunk it up before with NY and the fans should be quick to boo the stiff.
CC>>>>>>Beckett. The media shills would probably say otherwise though.
This will be a real competition, just like there was for CF last year. I think it is foolish to think it is going to be Hughes just because Joba has a bad 2009.
This is Joba’s last stand… he knows that. That should be very good news for us if he comes into camp ready to win that job with his normal velocity.
This trade was a steal for the yankees. What a great job by Cashman. You got a 4th starter for basically a 4th outfielder. Melky will get exposed in atlanta. Hitting in a big ballpark, not hitting 9th and not being surrounded by all those great yankee hitters.
Vasquez was one of the best pitchers last year in the national league great trade. A little disappointed that Mike Dunn is in the deal.
Hopefully Hughes stays in the bullpen because Joba is a better starter than Hughes.
MTU, I think this was a great trade by Cash, however more now than before, the club needs a leftfielder & still needs a # 5 hitter…..Unless Cano will be slotted to hit behind Alex, he’s a lefty……
SJ44
December 22nd, 2009 at 1:34 pm
A guy that made the all star team in his one season as a Yankee is “incapable” of pitching in NY? LOL
These posts get dumber by the hour.
******************
See, I told you you were too soon in awarding “dumbest post of the day”
They’re not stupid. They’re emotional. Some are delusional. Some just have differences of opinion.
But some are NUTS!
What about Phil (if he’s the one in the pen) as a long-man? I like that a LOT better than if he’s the set-up man. By going multiple innings, Phil can use all his pitches and possibly go through lineups more than once
Yeah but Betsy a long reliever can go a long time between appearances. I think that after seeing him this post season Cashman would prefer for Joba to be the guy in the pen. I gotta say, I was very much against it all of last year but now I’m in the Joba = relief pitcher camp.
Vazquez pitches a gem.
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com…..p;c_id=mlb
–
Vasquez strikes out Albert Pujols halfway through this video, on what has to be the weakest swing I have ever seen from Albert.
Not a fan of the deal.
Vasquez had trouble in NY before and there is no reason to believe things will be better this time around.
Things could get ugly real fast if he gets off to a bad start.
Didn’t Cashman already say that the loser of the competition would be in the pen if they acquired a veteran starter?
Seems they knew about this blog, Uncle!…
And it doesn’t really matter if I’m wrong I’m right
Where I belong I’m right
Where I belong.
“My God, doesn’t anyone remember Vasquez [A-ROD] in 04 [04-07]? He’s already shown that he’s incapable of pitching [hitting in the postseason] in NY. That pitch [those strikeouts] to Damon [against everyone] will be what he’s always known for.”
Pat M,
Nick Johnson will probably hit #2 and Granderson #5.
Yes he a great year in an awful league in no pressure situations
Lets see him go 3 1/3 vs Tampa next year down 5-1
bill December 22nd, 2009 at 1:32 pm
My God, doesn’t anyone remember Vasquez in 04? He’s already shown that he’s incapable of pitching in NY. That pitch to Damon will be what he’s always known for. I’m not a big Melky fan, but Vasquez is a disaster waiting to happen.
—————–
My god! Let’s judge a player by 1 pitch 6 years ago! It’s not like he’s been a solid (and at times spectacular) pitcher his entire career or anything…
He was so incapable of pitching in NY that he was 10-5 in the first half of the season before getting hurt (and hiding it) in the second half…
::rolleyes::
“Reading some of these posts makes me want to shoot myself in the face. Some of you people are just so stupid, I can’t stand it any more”
LOL, yet for some reason we can’t look away!
Vazquez is also healthier than he was in 2004.
Beckett and AJ are roughly equivalent, and they had nearly identical ’09s. Edge-Even.
Pettitte and Lackey are roughly equivalent-neither is a shutdown guy, but they both are reliable and know how to win games w/o their best stuff. Edge to Pettitte.
Matsuzaka and Vazquez. Both will have a lot to prove this year. Vazquez that he can handle NY and the AL East, Matsuzaka has to prove that he is the ’08 version, and not the ’09 version. Edge-total toss up, just like each of these guys every time they take the ball.
Bucholz/Wakefield vs. Hughes/Joba. The talent goes to the Yankees here, Wakefield is a bigger ? than he ever has been. Bucholz pitched well last year, now he will have trouble in a full year. I think Joba gets the nod for the Yankees, put-up time for him as a starter. Edge-Yankee
CC is the Yankees #1, Lester is the de facto #1 for Boston. Don’t underestimate Lester, he could b great, even the Cy winner this year, but CC is what he hopes to be someday. Edge-Yankees.
It was 5 years ago. He actually had a good first half that year. It has nothing to do with now.
bill
December 22nd, 2009 at 1:32 pm
My God, doesn’t anyone remember Vasquez in 04? He’s already shown that he’s incapable of pitching in NY. That pitch to Damon will be what he’s always known for. I’m not a big Melky fan, but Vasquez is a disaster waiting to happen.
I agree, but Cashman must have a very short memory. How could you give up Melky for a useless pitcher
Pitcher get paid 10x more at the Major league level compared to the minor league (40K to 400K). Neither of the kids are going to demand they be in the rotation. Being in the bullpen still means they are a vital part of the team, and they also get paid well doing so.
“If Joba is motivated… watch out…”
“IF”
Why doesn’t anyone get this: why should the Yankees have to hope that the fat kid from Nebraska decides to be motivated and get in shape?
If there is an “if” in the minds of so many predictors around here, what does that tell the rest of us about Joba’s maturity and reliability, as perceived by the average fan? Now take that and process it into the minds of the actual Yankee brass. Should they trust that guy with a starting rotation position?
IMO, Joba’s got to do more than pitch better than Hughes in ST to get the #5 position. He has to prove that the arrogant kid in him is long gone.
Ahh fake SJ44 good times!
“Vasquez had trouble in NY before and there is no reason to believe things will be better this time around.”
Actually, there is. He had arm problems in 2004.
This WOULD have been a great trade, a one-year rental fairly cheap for a marginal 3rd MLB outfielder (proven player though, not far off from ellsbury with that bat) – But the problem is all I can think of with Vazquez is the first pitch he threw in Game 7 to Johnny Damon of the 2004 ALCS
I think it’s a given this guy, even though he is a very good pitcher and was absolutely great last year, he can’t pitch in NY and can’t pitch in a big spot (he was so-so for the White Sox in their Series run, correct me if I am wrong, everyone who picked up the ball for the Sox that year was great in the playoffs, especially former yanks)
So now we have a diminished outfield from last year (What is with the assumption that Swisher is an every-day player? We escaped with it last year because we had Melky for late inning defense and had Matsui and Damon’s bats in the lineup but this guy can slump atrociously)
I love the Pettitte signing and Granderson trade but it’s been all downhill from there – who wants to bet Matsui has more Plate Appearances (not ABs to be fair) than Nick Johnson next year? If Cano regresses back to 08 without Melky the lineup is not nearly the calibre of last year
So now we have to go waste money on Holliday who is flat-out a loser (watch him bat against a good pitcher, it’s like A-Rod vs good pitchers when he’s not zoned in) I like Bay but he’s overpriced and I think secretly people are higher on Bay than Holliday (ask the Mets)
Oh well, at least we got a title in 09 – and I would bet 11 is going to be a better year
“Replaced it with Chef Boy R.D. Ravioli?”
Hell no! I wasn’t an abusive parent.
She ate the lasagna.
=========
Lucky Charms was my second choice. With Captain Crunch for seconds. Does that make it less abusive?
isn’t it too early for the fake SJ44′s to be coming out?
Mike-
how appropriate.
Joba’s last stand.
Like Custer’s
Did you know that Joba has a native american background I think ?
He wouldn’t agree with you that it might be HIS last stand.
Patrick
Ahh fake SJ44 good times!
__
I fell for it.
“Ahh fake SJ44 good times!”
Yes, they’re back.
Now Vasquez is a useless pitcher? I know the nl is weaker but its not like he pitched in a beer league.
The 1:37 post is not mine. The impersonators are back.
Time to run along and let the morons take over for the rest of the day.
Vazquez pitches a gem.
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com…..p;c_id=mlb
–
Vasquez strikes out Albert Pujols halfway through this video, on what has to be the weakest swing I have ever seen from Albert.
-
Agreed. Javy’s change-up was spectacular that night.
The SJ44 imposter has returned. How clever.
Mark in Tampa, I’d agree with everything you wrote except I’d give an edge to Beckett over AJ and an edge to JV over DiceK. Overall, slight edge to NY over Boston rotation, huge advantage in lineup and bullpen.
Still can’t believe they gave up an elite prospect in Vizcaino for 1 yr of Vasquez.
Another chip off the board for future trades… they almost have to sign Chapman now, the farm is getting thinner…
Patrick
December 22nd, 2009 at 1:39 pm
Ahh fake SJ44 good times!
******************
LOL
I thought the rummy SJ’s only come out during the games……SJ, you’re collecting a hell of a fan club
“Actually, there is. He had arm problems in 2004.”
Kepner had an old article that disputed his arm problems and says it was a failure to make a mechanical adjustment.
Chip, I’d be more in favor of Joba in the pen. I don’t see Phil as ready to win the spot out of ST, so I think Phil will be in the pen. Maybe he’d not be a traditional long man, but he shouldn’t be the set up man. He should pitch multiple innings as many times as possible
Not a fan of the deal.
Vasquez had trouble in NY before and there is no reason to believe things will be better this time around.
Things could get ugly real fast if he gets off to a bad start.
__________________________
Couldn’t be just have had a bad 2nd half? Why does a few months of baseball mean it was NY that was the problem and not just the type of swings pitchers have sometime?
There are many successful AL pitchers that had halves as bad as his during the course of their careers. Doesn’t necessarily mean anything more than that.
“Kepner had an old article that disputed his arm problems and says it was a failure to make a mechanical adjustment.”
I heard Cash say otherwise.
The Yankees still have good prospects in the farm. Other then Viscaino and Jackson who did they give up that will hurt? You gotta give something to get something. Yankees will get back prospects when they let Javy go.
I can’t tell which posts belong to the real SJ!!
It’s just too hard to tell.
“Still can’t believe they gave up an elite prospect in Vizcaino for 1 yr of Vasquez”
“Elite”?
Shouldn’t “elite” include making it through more than one cycle of short season, low minors baseball?
What does everyone think about possibly signing jermaine dye and plugging him into LF and #5 slot?
Vazquez was an AL All-Star for pete’s sake!
He’s a strikeout pitcher, which the Yankees adore.
He pitches over 200 innings a year, so he joins CC, AJ, and Pettitte in that regard, and adds insurance in case AJ can’t. That’s 4 out of 5, which places less stress on the pen.
The bullpen gets strengthened as it moves Hughes to be setup for Mo. OK, or Joba, but I think Hughes.
And it allows some room to add either a good FA LF for the long-term, or a stop-gap until the off-season, or it allows you to trade at the trade deadline for that LF (Crawford) should you so desire. I’m just putting it out there.
Id be ok with Dye but rather have Damon or Derosa.
The one thing i like about this deal is that it gives us yet another power pitcher. That makes it 3 pitchers in the starting rotation that are capable of striking out 200 a season. Who says we need to move the fences back in Yankee Stadium. Cant launch it if you cant hit it. Home field advantage at its finest.
“I thought the rummy SJ’s only come out during the games……SJ, you’re collecting a hell of a fan club”
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Somehow, even when morons do the imitation it’s still flattering.
“I heard Cash say otherwise.”
On the radio?
Saint-
Bullseye.
I wasn’t a big fan of the Vazquez deal until I remembered this:
If he falls flat on his face, we still have Hughes and Joba.
If we had made a deal for a “better” pitcher, and they fell flat or got injured, we wouldn’t have either Hughes or Joba to step in.
If Hughes or Joba fulfill their potential this year, we won’t have to worry about Javy in the playoffs.
So, I didn’t like it, but it is OK for what we gave up…just don’t tell me the LF is going to be DeRosa. I would really rather have Gardner out there.
People are getting so hung up on that one pitch to Damon that basically ended the season. I think it’s been made pretty clear that he was pitching injured in the second half of that season. Besides, plenty went wrong in that game and series to hang it all on Vazquez.
S.o.S.
December 22nd, 2009 at 1:46 pm
The one thing i like about this deal is that it gives us yet another power pitcher. That makes it 3 pitchers in the starting rotation that are capable of striking out 200 a season. Who says we need to move the fences back in Yankee Stadium. Cant launch it if you cant hit it. Home field advantage at its finest.
————————————————————
With Hughes or Chamberlain at the end of the rotation, you’ll have another power arm capable of averaging a strikeout or more an inning.
So Javy coming from the n.l. is too risky but most of you wanted the Yankees to sign Sheets(n.l. and injury prone)?
GB7,
Watching prime 9 last night and they had the best center fielders to ever play the game. #1 ended up being Mays. Do you think he was better than Mickey out there? Was there anyone better in you opinion? Im surprised Hunter didnt make that list.
This is a great trade anyone who says otherwise is being ridiculous, people forget that Javier went 14-10 for the Yankees had a good first half and even went to the ALL-STAR game, so basically you guys are trashing a pitcher for a bad second half and because he struggled in the playoffs, Javier is coming to the Yankees to be a fourth starters. FOURTH STARTER.
I’m disappointed that Hughes and Joba won’t both get the chance to start this year, but I don’t think the Yankees gave up too much. Vasquez is probably the most durable pitcher in the league and him and Pettitte make very good 3 and 4 starters. Having him for basically a $9M/1yr deal (considering they don’t have to pay Melky now), is better than anyone they could have signed in free agency.
I feel bad for Melky. Hopefully he does well in ATL. Also, I think this makes it more clear that the Yankees aren’t interested in adding another long term contract like the one Holliday is going to demand. Maybe Damon gives the Yankees a chance to match whatever offer he gets.
I agree with Fake SJ44.
Not that Vasquez won’t serve the purpose of a No. 4,
but that the Yankees could have gotten another arm to go 14-9 without giving up the best arm in the system and a 25-year old switch hitter who will thumb his nose at the “fourth outfielder” BS when he’s through.
This is a Mike Francesa type move.
But what’s done is done. He has a good season, we pick up two type A picks for him.
How is Marlon Byrd as a potential for LF. I know little about him. What would be his cost (years and dollars), defense etc.
Gardner as the every day LF?
Wanna really kill the offense?
Give Brett Gardner 400 ABs.
“But what’s done is done. He has a good season, we pick up two type A picks for him.”
I doubt we can get a player like Vizcaino or Melky with those picks though. Vizcaino is an ace-type starter and Melky is a solid starter on a good team.
Dumb trade… one that didn’t need to be made. Especially coming off a WS when we can afford to be patient. The desperation is gone, yet we act like we didn’t win last year.
I hope the Dye rumors to die.
Think Vlad is bad.
I can have faith in for DeJesus.
Or sell my sould to Damon.
But I’d rather have a Holliday, if I can’t get Crawford.
Ok, so I ran out of ideas.
I agree with Fake SJ44.
Not that Vasquez won’t serve the purpose of a No. 4,
but that the Yankees could have gotten another arm to go 14-9 without giving up the best arm in the system and a 25-year old switch hitter who will thumb his nose at the “fourth outfielder” BS when he’s through.
This is a Mike Francesa type move.
But what’s done is done. He has a good season, we pick up two type A picks for him.
________
I’m not that upset about giving up a potential great bullpen arm, again a bullpen arm
I would be ok with 1 year of Marlon Byrd in LF.
edit:
I want the Dye rumors to die.
Think Vlad is bad.
I can have faith in DeJesus.
Or sell my sould to Damon.
But I’d rather have a Holliday, if I can’t get Crawford.
Hasn’t vasquez already proved he CANNOT pitch in ny? what are hey thinking?
“I agree with Fake SJ44.”
Bod, we usually agree on things but that right there should tell you that you’re overreacting.
murphydog
December 22nd, 2009 at 1:44 pm
“Still can’t believe they gave up an elite prospect in Vizcaino for 1 yr of Vasquez”
“Elite”?
Shouldn’t “elite” include making it through more than one cycle of short season, low minors baseball?
————————————————————
Actually two seasons of short season rookie ball. 2008 in the GCL and 2009 in the NY-P League, but, point well made.
One thing that Cashman has done is created a huge stock of good young arms, just made for selective trading.
I wonder how Cano feels about his BFF being shipped out? Will it effect him for the better or worse next year?
More than anything the Yankees needed a guy to eat innings with an aging Pettite and a youngster in the #5 spot.
Vazquez is that and more, he’s a innings eater that can actually win games.
Maybe we can spin Vazquez off for Bronson Arroyo?
Slight upgrade in the pitching, with Vasquez over Hughes (Vasquez’ ERA will be in the mid 4s… just like the kids’ ERA would have been, except Javy will give you more innings but not better production in those innings)
Slight downgrade in the offense, from Melky to Gardner.
And we lost a potential high ceiling reliever in Dunn. Lefties with his stuff do not grow on trees.
And we lost one of our top prospects in Vizcaino.
Was it worth it? A slight upgrade and lost 1 huge chip from the farm, and another solid chip. Vasquez in the AL will not be much better than the kids would have been. Gardner is not a better hitter than Melky.
“Im surprised Hunter didnt make that list.”
S.O.S.,
I saw that too. Hunter definitely should have made the list since Edmonds did. There was no way they were not going to put Mays first. They also had to put Dimaggio 5th to keep from having too many Yankees in the top 3.
Although Mantle was probably the most talented player ever, it is hard to put him ahead of Mays simply because Mays has better longevity numbers. That hurts Mantle, and hurts Joe D. even more.
Hasn’t vasquez already proved he CANNOT pitch in ny? what are hey thinking?
_______
how did a 14-10 season with a 4.50 era show us he could not pitch in New York
Hey did make the All-star team he had a very good 1st half
“I wonder how Cano feels about his BFF being shipped out? Will it effect him for the better or worse next year?”
Wouldn’t be shocked if it does. Another reason this move didn’t need to be made. Too many things it disrupts.
DaSaint,
I 100% agree with your outfield opinions.
Is Byrd even a free agent?
I really hate all of the off-season moves. I think Granderson is on the downside of his career and this is one of those “maybe a change of scenery with wake him up” trades. Austin Jackson could have been the next Bernie Williams (anyone who knows their Yankee history knows that Gene Michael fought Steinbrenner and everyone else in the organization to keep Bernie in the system and only won out because George got suspended) too bad Cashman didn’t have the same fortitude. Melky/Matsui/Damon were catalysts in 2009 that, in my opinon, were given away for nothing and not replaced. Vasquez was crap in his prime and no successful pitcher in the NL is a proven commodity in the AL. Look what Smoltz and Penny did in 2009 after embarrassing themselves in the AL? I’m absolutely livid about trading Melky for this gutless bum. Why all the changes when the 2009 Yankees were far and away the best team in baseball???
Oh sure, we could have signed Sheets to $12 million, and have no idea if he can throw a pitch.
Or, we could have signed Duke, who’s about as brittle and hoped for the best.
Or, we could sign my boy Wang (which I hope we do), and wait until the 4th of July.
Or, we could trade Melky for Lilly, who just had surgery and won’t be ready for the start of the season.
Or, we could trade for a top 10 MLB pitcher, who gets Cy Young votes, pitches 200 innings/year, has AL experience, was an All-Star, and is in his contract year which generally means he’ll pitch his ass off for possibly his last contract. And if he’s not resigned we get 2 draft picks.
No, let’s not trade for him if we have to give up a 4th OF, an unproven lefty RELIEVER, and a guy who just made it to the minors and learned how to shave. Too much to give.
NUTS!
Patrick
December 22nd, 2009 at 1:55 pm
“I agree with Fake SJ44.”
Bod, we usually agree on things but that right there should tell you that you’re overreacting.
=====
I beg your pardon?
Jared Wright
2004 Atl 3.28
2005 NYY 6.08
Kyle Farnsworth
2005 Atl 1.98
2006 NYY 4.36
Javier Vazquez
2009 Atl 2.87
2010 NYY ????
I guess getting hustled the first two times wasn’t enough.
Nice work Cashman……………..
HC
nyp_joelsherman Boone Logan 1 rare players with a 4th option, so while he is arb eligible, he will have to win job in in #Yankees spring to make team
2 minutes ago from web
=====================
translation, please??
“Is Byrd even a free agent?”
Yes but according to recent reports he’s very close to signing with the Cubs.
GB7:
How are you today? Still doing the Masked Marvel thing?
http://cdn3.ioffer.com/img/ite.....ARVEL3.jpg
Maybe we can spin Vazquez off for Bronson Arroyo?
=======
lol!! Post of the day.
S.o.S.
December 22nd, 2009 at 1:50 pm
So Javy coming from the n.l. is too risky but most of you wanted the Yankees to sign Sheets(n.l. and injury prone)?
GB7,
Watching prime 9 last night and they had the best center fielders to ever play the game. #1 ended up being Mays. Do you think he was better than Mickey out there? Was there anyone better in you opinion? Im surprised Hunter didnt make that list.
————————————————————
Mays has to be rated better, if for no other reason than health. He was a better center fielder than Mantle, defensively. He was a natural. Mantle just had the incredible speed to outrun everything, plus an unreal throwing arm, but, he wasn’t instinctive.
I was more surprised that Dawson wasn’t on the list and I was that Hunter wasn’t. I would have left Puckett off the list.
Oh geez…the move didn’t need to be made to spare Robinson Cano’s feelings?
Cano’s not going to be in a deep depression over his friend being shipped off to Atlanta. If this trade effects his performance, than shame on him.
Murph,
Agree with you about Joba. All of his woes are conditioning and attitude. Some players take being a Yankee and having the keys to NYC and don’t let it phase them.
Joba, seems to me, to have more David Wells in him than David Cone if you know what I’m saying.
The only problem with that is he hasn’t pitched as well as David Wells as a Yankee.
I do think the money is going to motivate him to show up this spring and win the job. He knows the difference between what a reliever makes and what a starter makes.
That said, my question with Joba is if he wins the job in the spring will he then rest on his laurels thinking he’s bulletproof? I think he’s the type that constantly needs a carrot held in front of his face or he’ll start to cruise rather sprint.
Time will tell.
I do think he has the ability to be a great SP, but I’m not sure he has the day in day out desire to do it. Money will be a huge motivator for him for sure.
He still has a lot to prove.
Any shot X-Man gets another shot at left (or right).
I liked him before he got hurt…
Anyone know his status??
“Gardner as the every day LF?
Wanna really kill the offense?
Give Brett Gardner 400 ABs.”
I don’t WANT Gardner as the everyday LF, but I prefer him to Derosa. I think Derosa is a waste of money and committment. I want Holliday out there, but I think the payroll will keep that from happening.
But Gardner will be a very good defensive outfielder, obviuosly one of the better baserunners in the league, at least in terms of speed. We would lose a bit offensively, but just like the Melky argument, we are talking about the #9 hitter.
December 22nd, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Oh sure, we could have signed Sheets to $12 million, and have no idea if he can throw a pitch.
Or, we could have signed Duke, who’s about as brittle and hoped for the best.
Or, we could sign my boy Wang (which I hope we do), and wait until the 4th of July.
Or, we could trade Melky for Lilly, who just had surgery and won’t be ready for the start of the season.
Or, we could trade for a top 10 MLB pitcher, who gets Cy Young votes, pitches 200 innings/year, has AL experience, was an All-Star, and is in his contract year which generally means he’ll pitch his ass off for possibly his last contract. And if he’s not resigned we get 2 draft picks.
No, let’s not trade for him if we have to give up a 4th OF, an unproven lefty RELIEVER, and a guy who just made it to the minors and learned how to shave. Too much to give.
NUTS!
_________
someone else who sees the light, thank you
Cano’s Hierarchy of Needs
Dumpy blonde new york women
enchiliditos (they make you want to eato!)
baseball
melky cabrera
If Cano thought he was going to play his entire career with Melky, he is a moron. Melky had practically played himself off the team already in 2008.
I don’t really think one year of Vasquez is worth Melky, Dunn, and someone else. Dunn was like our top lefty reliever in the minors. And we let the O’s sign Mike Gonzalez. I guess Marte will be our only lefty in the pen now.
I like how we have better starting pitching depth now, though. And I don’t see how this ends the debate of Joba in the pen or in the rotation. No announcement was made as to which pitcher will be the 5th starter after Vasquez. The debate will rage on.
Obviously, the trade of Melky means that the Yankees will 100% sign a left fielder. Whether it’s Damon, Bay, or Holliday… we’ll have to find out. Either way, those guys are NOT out of the Yankees price range. None of them. If we’ve learned anything, it’s that the Yankees have no budget, no matter WHAT they say. They’ll sign one of those big ticket FA’s. They’ve traded enough prospects this offseason- can’t see them making another trade.
Rishi-
they can send him down if they want too.
He will have to make the team in the spring
I am truly honored to be in contention for POTD. You like me. You really do.
Bronson’s a Gamah!
“I beg your pardon?”
You are agreeing with a person who’s sole purpose is to troll Yankee fans. That should tell you that your position on this trade is a bit out of wack.
Mark,
I knew i wasnt crazy for thinking that. Good post. Thanks.
007,
Keep it coming!! You are on a roll and im all in for the ride.
This gives the Yankees the best pitching staff in baseball.
The Red Sox might have a better 3 starter with Lackey, but the Yankees have the most talented starter of the group with CC and the best bullpen in the league with Mariano, Hughes/Joba, Robertson, Aceves, and Marte.
Blame Kevin Brown not Javy!
thanks, MTU – I guess I kind of assumed that was always the case!
And it doesn’t really matter if I’m wrong I’m right
Where I belong I’m right
Where I belong.
See the people standing there
who disagree and never win
and wonder why they don’t get in my door
classic
erin just posting Beatles lyrics that may or may not fit the situation
Lester vs Sabathia – push
Beckett vs Vazquez – Beckett is inconsistent but it’s hard to project Vazquez in the AL … push
Burnett vs Lackey – advantage Sox
Pettitte vs Matsuzaka – advantage Yankees
Hughes/Chamberlain vs Wakefield – advantage Yankees
I think I’d take the Yanks rotation over the Red Sox but it’s pretty close.
sar515
December 22nd, 2009 at 2:01 pm
Any shot X-Man gets another shot at left (or right).
I liked him before he got hurt…
Anyone know his status??
————————————————————
I’d be in favor of this if his arm is ok. By ok, I mean anything stronger than Damon’s. I actually proposed this some time ago as a possible candidate.
Don’t think it likely though. Rumor has it that Atlanta is considering Nady for 1B (arm not required).
Other options:
Holliday – costs dollars (and future flexibility IMO)
Damon – costs dollars and loss of pride (but increases flexibility)
DeJesus – costs players (minor league + Gardner IMO)
S.o.S,
Prime 9 is the same show that had Posada as the THIRD best catcher of the 90s! They usually get the 9 guys right, or close, but they are a little fuzzy on the order.
I’m excited for this deal not just because I like the player we got back but also because I’m excited to see the other foot fall. I’m anxious to see who our LF will be and I feel like that should be rectified rather quickly now that our pitching staff is complete.
I’m going to make this bold prediction:
Someone on the staff will miss time with an injury this year and both Joba and Hughes will see a decent amount of innings as a starter and it will work out with Hughes’s inning limit and him spending some time both in the rotation and the bullpen.
I’m fine with either Holliday now or Crawford later.
It’s a good problem to have.
“Im surprised Hunter didnt make that list.”
Yeah, nobody grounds out and hits pop-ups quite like Torii.
Jim Edmonds has had 13 years with an OPS+ over 110. Hunter has had 5. Both play(ed) a great CF. But Edmonds was a much better hitter for longer.
Edmonds is 5 years older than Torii, but for Torii to match his numbers he would need 5 years of:
.290/30 hrs/.400 obp/.550 slg (approximately)
Hunter has never had 1 year that good.
IMO,
Edmonds = underrated
Hunter = overrated
lol Lester vs Sabathia is NOT a push, Lester has not come close to accomplishing what CC has, and he is not of the same caliber talent
I’m fine with DeJesus.
I’m fine with Marlon Byrd.
Dumb trade… one that didn’t need to be made. Especially coming off a WS when we can afford to be patient. The desperation is gone, yet we act like we didn’t win last year.
=====
Marcus,
This is the most intelligent post on here today.
They “didn’t have to” make this trade.
There should have been LESS desperation, more vision.
Losing Viz and Melky this way is a red flag; this type of move is off course; they seem determined to patch leaks for one year in hopes of repeating.
I have no ill will toward Javy, nor do I think he will be a “bust” this time around, just because of an inconvenient feeling left from 2004 that really should be laid at the manager’s feet – but this isn’t the best park for Javy, and he is not worth Cabrera and Vizcaino. Dunn is another loss, though not so great as Vizcaino.
Re: MarkinTampa
I agree “IF” we don’t add another OF Gardner would do o.k. in LF
we’d be better off defensively and we would add speed to the lineup. Much better than the typical #9 hitters in MLB.
If he can improve OBP he can score a lot of runs with the top of the lineup behind him.
“lol Lester vs Sabathia is NOT a push, Lester has not come close to accomplishing what CC has, and he is not of the same caliber talent ”
If you are trying to project their contributions for 2010 it is a push.
Lester vs Sabathia – push
Beckett vs Vazquez – Beckett is inconsistent but it’s hard to project Vazquez in the AL … push
Burnett vs Lackey – advantage Sox
Pettitte vs Matsuzaka – advantage Yankees
Hughes/Chamberlain vs Wakefield – advantage Yankees
I think I’d take the Yanks rotation over the Red Sox but it’s pretty close.
________
Lester has a little bit more to go before i say he is even with CC.
There seems to be some concern about the bullpen in losing Dunn, but with all those extra innings in the rotation it helps cancel it out. Marte showed in the postseason that he’s back to form, so I’m not worried about losing Dunn. We have a lefty (a good proven one), and we have a better bullpen with Joba or Hughes there for a full season. Plus, we need less bullpen.
Not happy to hear that Melky has been traded for a pitcher the Yankees have already had once and didn’t do very well and for only one year. I can’t believe Cashman made this trade. Look what Melky did this past year – hit for the cycle, had 3 walk-offs, sparked several rallies. What has Vasquez done????????? Not much. The Yankees finally get a team that works well together and they win a series and then what do they do – they start to dismantle. And on top of that they let Matsui get away and got Nick Johnson. Matsui is definitely the better DH. So who’s going to be in left? The mighty Gardner who certainly didn’t have much of a showing this past year and is really just a flash in a pan? Sorry his speed doesn’t cut it. Extremely disappointed in what’s happening to this team. This is NOT a better team.
LOL people are complaining about losing Melky. Wow you traded your 9th place hitter with a career 716 ops for a very good starter. Vasquez was one of the best pitchers in the nl last year and is a former all star. He is a strikeout pitcher which the yanks love in there new ballpark.
I can understand being upset losing Dunn but not Melky.
Blake-
are you still with me on bringing the horse back to the barn ?
Or do you think he’s gotten away for good ?
I dont want to ride another horse.
I like the one selected. He’s the one that’s best for me.
He’s a true Stallion.
And he will make the whole herd better if we get him.
And we can ride to victory on him.
You need to get the job done, and I didn’t get it done,” said Vazquez, who gave up six runs on eight hits over 4 1/3 innings, striking out six and walking one. “It’s tough right now. By far, this is the toughest stretch of my career, and I have no explanation.”
Vazquez ERA against the Rays? 12.45
“lol Lester vs Sabathia is NOT a push, Lester has not come close to accomplishing what CC has, and he is not of the same caliber talent ”
If you are trying to project their contributions for 2010 it is a push.
______
The same was said last year and that did not happen, i still need to see more consistency with Lester before i say its a push.
Bodhi,
Melky wasn’t that good, you gotta settle down.
Plus, Gardner won’t end up being the everyday LF.
“They “didn’t have to” make this trade.”
Sure they didn’t have to but trades like this don’t come along every day. The Yankees got away with one here – big win for Cashman.
Patrick December 22nd, 2009 at 2:06 pm
Lester vs Sabathia – push
Beckett vs Vazquez – Beckett is inconsistent but it’s hard to project Vazquez in the AL … push
Burnett vs Lackey – advantage Sox
Pettitte vs Matsuzaka – advantage Yankees
Hughes/Chamberlain vs Wakefield – advantage Yankees
I think I’d take the Yanks rotation over the Red Sox but it’s pretty close.
—————–
Sabathia is better than Lester its not a push.
Vazquez is better than Beckett not a push either.
Burnett and Lackey are a push because of Lackeys injuries and Burnetts inconsistency.
And the last two are advantage Yankees.
So basically our rotation is way better.
Patrick
December 22nd, 2009 at 2:03 pm
“I beg your pardon?”
You are agreeing with a person who’s sole purpose is to troll Yankee fans. That should tell you that your position on this trade is a bit out of wack.
=====
Oh.
Right.
Thanks for the enlightenment.
# The Ghost December 22nd, 2009 at 1:59 pm
I really hate all of the off-season moves. I think Granderson is on the downside of his career and this is one of those “maybe a change of scenery with wake him up” trades. Austin Jackson could have been the next Bernie Williams (anyone who knows their Yankee history knows that Gene Michael fought Steinbrenner and everyone else in the organization to keep Bernie in the system and only won out because George got suspended) too bad Cashman didn’t have the same fortitude. Melky/Matsui/Damon were catalysts in 2009 that, in my opinon, were given away for nothing and not replaced. Vasquez was crap in his prime and no successful pitcher in the NL is a proven commodity in the AL. Look what Smoltz and Penny did in 2009 after embarrassing themselves in the AL? I’m absolutely livid about trading Melky for this gutless bum. Why all the changes when the 2009 Yankees were far and away the best team in baseball???
———————————
Granderson is on the downside of his career???? At 28, some of you folks complain just to complain.
great to see the latin Ed Whitson back in pinstripes and his 12.46 post season ERA…
“Or, we could trade for a top 10 MLB pitcher, who gets Cy Young votes, pitches 200 innings/year, has AL experience, was an All-Star, and is in his contract year which generally means he’ll pitch his ass off for possibly his last contract. And if he’s not resigned we get 2 draft picks.”
I think it’s a good trade, but top 10 pitcher?
Off the top of my head: Halladay, CC, Santana, Lee, Lester, Beckett, Lackey, Hernandez, Lincecum, Greinke, Verlander, Johnson, Wainwright, Carpenter, Burnett, Peavey and Webb (if healthy).
I’d say top 20 would probably be a stretch. Let’s not turn him into Cy Young just cause he’s back on the Yankees.
I like Javy. He had a great 1st half for us in 2004 and a bad 2nd half. He is durable. We traded him for Randy who was still very good, so it’s not like we gave up on Javy. It was sort of like trading Soriano for Arod. NYY wanted something more.
I’d like to find out what Javy did the past year to post those great numbers though. Anyone know? Anyone have any recent scouting reports? When he was with ARI in 2005 he had a 4.4, now last year in ATL a 2.9. What happened?
Good trade, although Dunn and Vizcaino still have upside.
You need to get the job done, and I didn’t get it done,” said Vazquez, who gave up six runs on eight hits over 4 1/3 innings, striking out six and walking one. “It’s tough right now. By far, this is the toughest stretch of my career, and I have no explanation.”
Vazquez ERA against the Rays? 12.45
______
Your point?
“I’m still getting hateful emails from my White Sox friends. Thanks, Cash”
————————————————–
NYY is a better team in 2010, then they were in 2009
CC vs Lester
CC has more talent
CC has better stuff
CC has proven he’s a #1 starter for multiple seasons
CC has more endurance
CC is more of a workhorse
Next season will be no different
“The same was said last year and that did not happen, i still need to see more consistency with Lester before i say its a push.”
Uhh yes it did happen. Other than innings pitched Jon Lester was every bit as good as CC last year.
Not happy to hear that Melky has been traded for a pitcher the Yankees have already had once and didn’t do very well and for only one year. I can’t believe Cashman made this trade. Look what Melky did this past year – hit for the cycle, had 3 walk-offs, sparked several rallies. What has Vasquez done????????? Not much. The Yankees finally get a team that works well together and they win a series and then what do they do – they start to dismantle. And on top of that they let Matsui get away and got Nick Johnson. Matsui is definitely the better DH. So who’s going to be in left? The mighty Gardner who certainly didn’t have much of a showing this past year and is really just a flash in a pan? Sorry his speed doesn’t cut it. Extremely disappointed in what’s happening to this team. This is NOT a better team.
—–
Vazquez pitched wonderfully last year and got cy young votes.
“Look what Melky did this past year – hit for the cycle, had 3 walk-offs, sparked several rallies. What has Vasquez done????????? Not much.”
This might be my favorite quote ever.
“So basically our rotation is way better.”
Way to be unbiased.
idiot.
One other reason why I am warming a bit to the trade-if we had both Joba and Phil in the rotation, they both have to be good now. The way it is, just one has to emerge, the other ready in case of injury/lack of performance. I still don’t trust Vazquez, but this did make the Yankee pitching much deeper.
If he is awful, we still have Joba and Phil in the rotation, which is the way it was yesterday. So, no harm done.
Stultus Magnus
December 22nd, 2009 at 2:10 pm
Bodhi,
Melky wasn’t that good, you gotta settle down.
Plus, Gardner won’t end up being the everyday LF.
====
Of course Gardner is not going to play every day. That was sarcasm.
I have no idea what you mean by “that good.”
It is not a good trade – the Yankees gave up too much for too little to fill a need that could have been filled without the sacrifice involved here.
If you want to throw a party and call it a coup, by all means, go ahead.
Yankee fans have short memories, I not only remember Javier’s bad second half but I remember his All-Star quality 1st half with the Yankees.
The Blog exploded with a mighty crash as we fell into the Sun
And first one said to the second one there
“I hope you’re having fun”
Coach6423 wrote:
Granderson is on the downside of his career???? At 28, some of you folks complain just to complain.
_________
Tell that to the people who have given up on Melky at 25 years old. If you compare him to Granderson at the same age Melky’s career impact dwarf’s Granderson’s. Oh yeah – and 26 was Granderson’s breakout year – a year mind you that he has yet to replicate.
RE:
# The Ghost December 22nd, 2009 at 1:59 pm
I really hate all of the off-season moves. I think Granderson is on the downside of his career and this is one of those “maybe a change of scenery with wake him up” trades
———————————————————
You must be confused
We signed the 28yo CF Granderson
Boston signed the 38yo CF Cameron
2009:
Lester: 6.2 WAR
Sabathia: 6.0 WAR
Yeah man Sabathia is sooooo much better!
Some strange decisions being made in Angel Land. They’re moving in on a deal to sign Fernando Rodney to close, while still paying Fuentes $9 mil.
Losing Viz and Melky this way is a red flag; this type of move is off course; they seem determined to patch leaks for one year in hopes of repeating.
–
How is losing a 4th OFer and a pitcher that is as far out as any of our pitching prospects for a chance at a repeat next year in any way short sighted? Cashman’s plan is to win now and in the future. The future was not Arodys Vizcaino. He might be good, but its never guaranteed. Additionally we’ll at the very least get 1 pick out of Vazquez. We might get 2.
We can replace Arodys right now with Chapman. There are only so many rotation slots. A lot can change between now and then, but losing Vizcaino isn’t sinking the yankees now or in the future. Cash wanted a strong system that will graduate players, but also create trade chips.
“Or, we could trade for a top 10 MLB pitcher, who gets Cy Young votes, pitches 200 innings/year, has AL experience, was an All-Star, and is in his contract year which generally means he’ll pitch his ass off for possibly his last contract. And if he’s not resigned we get 2 draft picks.”
I think it’s a good trade, but top 10 pitcher?
Off the top of my head: Halladay, CC, Santana, Lee, Lester, Beckett, Lackey, Hernandez, Lincecum, Greinke, Verlander, Johnson, Wainwright, Carpenter, Burnett, Peavey and Webb (if healthy).
I’d say top 20 would probably be a stretch. Let’s not turn him into Cy Young just cause he’s back on the Yankees.
—–
Yea I agree. He’s good bt he’s not top 10 talent. Prob more along the lines of top 25, which is still great.
“If you want to throw a party and call it a coup, by all means, go ahead.”
Thanks for your permission.
Cashman robbed Wren blind, that’s a simple fact.
Trying to get my last post up was a huge pain in the ass due to word filters filtering things that were not curses.
That should really be looked at.
“Vazquez ERA against the Rays? 12.45″
Not like it matters one bit, but his ERA against the Rays is 4.36. At least do some research prior to spewing.
For a team that won the big prize in 2009, next season outfield, pitchers and bench are going to look sooooo different. I’m not sure that some of these trades are actually going to give us a better result. One of the things that made this year’s team so great was that we had players with a variety of skill sets.
This trade assures three things
1. The rotation is better and arguably the best in baseball 1-5.
2. The bullpen will be better because either Joba or Hughes will be out there.
3. Someone better than Melky will be in LF. How much better is still undecided but they will likely an upgrade at least offensively over Melky.
So the trade makes the team better in three areas and will cost 8 million dollars for one year. Its a great move by Cash.
“I think I’d take the Yanks rotation over the Red Sox but it’s pretty close.”
On the whole I’d agree with that.
But for the same of argument let’s say the cards fall the other way – let’s say the Sox rotation is in fact somewhat better.
You know what – it really doesn’t matter. The small gradations between the two staffs aren’t going to make the difference.
And that’s because its incumbent on the sox pitching to not be marginally better than the yankees – it needs to be much, much better than the yankees rotation because the yankees hitting is so much better than the Sox hitting.
The Sox need to make up the difference in the two offenses via the rotation and defense. But if anything, the yankees defense will be as good if not better than the sox.
That means that the Sox pitching will have to be significantly better to make up the difference.
And now with Vazquez – the Sox are unlikely to be able to generate the kinds of differentials in pitching performance needed for them to pass the yankees.
Call the Sox rotation better by a bit if you want. If that is the case then the yankees still have the much better team.
Like him or not….
I love that some say Vazquez is a #3 in the NL.
He was FOURTH in Cy Young voting last year.
Show a little respect.
THIS JUST IN!!
Cashman has found his man in left field. Pending a physical he has found a base stealing threat that was missing in that position. Yes Yankee fanatics. Tony Womack is back!!
Cash just wasnt comfortable in starting the season with a guy in left field that had the slap power of Brett Butler when he wasnt watching most of them go by him for third strikes.
Welp, yankees are f’d. No way we win the world series in 2013 without Cy Vizcaino.
“Cano’s Hierarchy of Needs
Dumpy blonde new york women
enchiliditos (they make you want to eato!)
baseball
melky cabrera
If Cano thought he was going to play his entire career with Melky, he is a moron”
————————————
lol lol lol
Beckett
Lester
Lackey
Dice- K
Bucky
Wake
CC
AJ
ANDY
Javy
Joba
Phil
I have no faith in Beckett, Dice K or Wake – and don’t buy the Lackey Hype – – – But I’m a Yankee fan
Our 1-3 is even with there 1-3… but our back end is miles above the sawks…. and its all about the back end baby….
“The same was said last year and that did not happen, i still need to see more consistency with Lester before i say its a push.”
Uhh yes it did happen. Other than innings pitched Jon Lester was every bit as good as CC last year.
_______
Lester had a average to mediocre 1st half he was brilliant in the second half, Lester is a great pitcher but in my opinion CC is still better with Halladay gone CC is the best pitcher in the AL east, and innings pitch matters.
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Some poster said that he/she is worried about the rotation in the postseason with Javy. Hello ! The Yankees have CC as their ace, A.J., and big game Andy as their top three. Why would you be worried ? This team is not like the 2004 Yankees.
Your point?
He is a choker in big games. His manager said that too.
“If you are trying to project their contributions for 2010 it is a push.”
No it’s not. CC projects to be significantly more valuable than lester.
CC and Roy are in an orbit of their own in terms of value created for pitchers.
Christina,
“Vazquez ERA against the Rays? 12.45″
Where did you get this number?
Baseballreference.com says his ERA is 4.36 against the Rays, and 4.23 against the Red Sox.
Those numbers against the Red Sox were when they had a much stronger offense. The Red Sox have a really weak lineup if they don’t pick up another big bat. I wouldn’t be surprised if Vasquez’ numbers get a lot better against them this year.
blake
December 22nd, 2009 at 2:15 pm
This trade assures three things
1. The rotation is better and arguably the best in baseball 1-5.
2. The bullpen will be better because either Joba or Hughes will be out there.
3. Someone better than Melky will be in LF. How much better is still undecided but they will likely an upgrade at least offensively over Melky.
So the trade makes the team better in three areas and will cost 8 million dollars for one year. Its a great move by Cash.
—
Plus 2 draft picks for Vazquez
Bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes December 22nd, 2009 at 2:13 pm
Stultus Magnus
December 22nd, 2009 at 2:10 pm
Bodhi,
Melky wasn’t that good, you gotta settle down.
Plus, Gardner won’t end up being the everyday LF.
====
Of course Gardner is not going to play every day. That was sarcasm.
I have no idea what you mean by “that good.”
It is not a good trade – the Yankees gave up too much for too little to fill a need that could have been filled without the sacrifice involved here.
If you want to throw a party and call it a coup, by all means, go ahead.
=================
No party, it just seems odd to see somebody upset that Melky is gone, a player who is average at best.
I can see you being upset about Arodys and Dunn, but Melky?
Who cares?
My feeling is that the Yanks could have found a pitcher through free agency (sheets, duscherererererer) and in that sense a trade wasn’t absolutely necessary.
But I won’t cry for Melky. Let him go hit his 8 homeruns in Atlanta and pretend to be a switch hitter there…
CB,
Nice post, I agree.
There is still a significant gap in offense between the two clubs.
You are relying on AJ? Good for you.
GB-
Moohlah problems ?
Patrick December 22nd, 2009 at 2:14 pm
2009:
Lester: 6.2 WAR
Sabathia: 6.0 WAR
Yeah man Sabathia is sooooo much better!
_____
I think Ben Zobrist had a higher WAR than yes you know it Albert Puljos this year, ill take that stat with a grain of salt thank you.
“If you want to throw a party and call it a coup, by all means, go ahead.”
Thanks for your permission.
Cashman robbed Wren blind, that’s a simple fact.
——
I actually think this is a pretty good deal for both clubs.
The Braves REALLY needed to unload a starter. They were desperate and they got back a young, cheap outfielder who will probably be better in the NL than he was in the AL East where he wasn’t even that bad, a reliever and a high-end prospect, and we all know that if any organization knows how to develop pitchers, it is the Braves.
The Yanks got a starter that isn’t a huge question mark injury risk (sheets, dusch, escobar) and didn’t overpay for someone who would not give them good value (like a piniero or like…Vincent Padilla?)
I think this is a very good baseball trade for both teams. The Braves needed to dump a very good pitcher and got good value in return. The Yanks filled a need better than with anyone they could have on the market and keep room open for next years off-season.
I would say the Sox staff is more prone to injury and the Yankees rotation more likely to tally high IP totals while preserving the bullpen for the postseason.
Talent-wise, the rotations are similar.
Health and consistency tip the scales in favor of the Yanks.
If we add Holliday, then they should forfeit the season.
You are relying on AJ? Good for you.
—
You are relying on:
Beckett?
Wakefield?
Lackey?
Buchholz?
Good for you.
Christina25 December 22nd, 2009 at 2:19 pm
You are relying on AJ? Good for you.
_____
You mean A.J the pitcher that is as good as Beckett in the regular season?
“No it’s not. CC projects to be significantly more valuable than lester.
CC and Roy are in an orbit of their own in terms of value created for pitchers.”
Maybe I’m overrating Lester but I’m not sure I agree with that. Can you explain this further?
I guess the only real way we’ll see if this Vazquez deal is a good one is 162 regular season plus 11 postseason games away.
CC was a choker in big games too… how did that work out?
Now if Johnny happens to return maybe they could stage a 2004 ALCS game 7 redux only this time Javy strikes him out.
Actually Javy gave up 2 bombs to Johnny that day.
Brett-
if we add Matty then EVERYONE can mail it in.
Bod/Marcus,
No, the deal didn’t HAVE to be made. It was made because the Yankees want to repeat as WS Champions this year. Not because they want to have a good season, but because they want to REPEAT.
I liked Melky, and all who are regulars here know that for the past couple weeks I’ve advocated long and hard for Melky to be the starting LF.
But to pawn off – er, trade Melky, Dunn?, and AV – a low A Rookie, for one of the premier starters in the GAME, not just the NL, is a STEAL. This tops the Jake Peavy trade by Kenny Williams.
Our rotation gets infinitely better 1 through 4, while retaining young options at 5 who could compare to another team’s 3 or 4. Vazquez was arguably ATL’s #2 starter – he’s now our #3 or #4 depending on your perspective.
While I generally giving Cash credit for planning wholistically (it’s clear the Granderson trade was being planned simultaneously with the Vazquez trade), I wish he had added a good lefty to the pen such as Gonzalez, but the price and draft picks were probably too much for him to stomach. After all, he’d be basically giving them back to Atlanta.
Overall, good trade. Now let’s stop playing around and resign Damon, as there’s no room at the inn this Holliday.
How many posters here were calling for Melky to be DFA’d when he struggled last year?
Give it a rest, this is a good deal.
Keith Law wrote this a little bit ago:
“For the Yankees, adding Vazquez means either Joba Chamberlain or Phil Hughes will start the season in the bullpen. It probably also signals that the Yankees feel one of them belongs there, most likely Hughes at this point. If the organization believed that both pitchers eventually would work out as starters in the majors, it would be more willing to give both rotation spots and back them up with a lesser option than Vazquez, who was, as you might have heard, the second-best pitcher in the National League this past season.”
Now, I’m not sure if Law is referring to the long term when suggesting that the Yankees believe one of Joba/Hughes “belongs” in the bullpen, but if he does, then why would there be any hesitancy to trade that pitcher? Perhaps one is to be groomed for the closer job and if that is the case, then I guess I appreciate the desire to hold on to both, but Joba is the only one of those two that I think has the ability to dominate as a closer when Rivera retires.
NO.27,
That is his postseason ERA against the Rays. Longoria owns him. His problem? Homeruns.
“And that’s because its incumbent on the sox pitching to not be marginally better than the yankees – it needs to be much, much better than the yankees rotation because the yankees hitting is so much better than the Sox hitting. ”
Not to mention the fact that the Sox were 8 games worse than the Yankees last year. That’s a lot of ground to have to chew up – especially now that the Yanks have added another very reliable starter.
MTU,
Unless Holliday’s asking price drops significantly, he ain’t coming to NYY.
“Plus 2 draft picks for Vazquez”
The Yankees have decided not to give arbitration to any of their Type A and B free agents over the past 3 years.
The same AJ Burnett that has a virtually identical career ERA to Lackey and Beckett?
Red Sox fans getting worried… grasping at straws now.
CB,
Just for fun….what would the win projection be for this current team plus Holliday in LF?
Christina25
December 22nd, 2009 at 2:09 pm
You need to get the job done, and I didn’t get it done,” said Vazquez, who gave up six runs on eight hits over 4 1/3 innings, striking out six and walking one. “It’s tough right now. By far, this is the toughest stretch of my career, and I have no explanation.”
Vazquez ERA against the Rays? 12.45
————————————————————
Cue the dimwitted Gerbil. Boston must be sweating in the pinstriped heat. You can fight it out for 3rd place with the Orioles.
Uncle Ellsworth (Expert textpert choking smokers, don’t you think the joker laughs at you)
December 22nd, 2009 at 2:05 pm
And it doesn’t really matter if I’m wrong I’m right
Where I belong I’m right
Where I belong.
See the people standing there
who disagree and never win
and wonder why they don’t get in my door
classic
erin just posting Beatles lyrics that may or may not fit the situation
********************
Aha! I see. Fun
All I can think of right now is:
Think of what you’re saying,
You can get it wrong and still you think that it’s alright
Think of what I’m saying
We can work it out and get it straight, or say good-night.
Are you seriously trying to troll this blog with a 4.1 IP sample size.
CC had a tired arm in both postseasons. Vazquez’s problem is mental.
“Vazquez ERA against the Rays? 12.45?
Where did you get this number?”
I believe that is his ERA from the playoff start against the Rays. 4.1 IP, 6 ER.
So the number is accurate, but the usage is not in that it is for just one game. However, in 15.2 PS innings his ERA is 10.34.
Christina25 December 22nd, 2009 at 2:24 pm
NO.27,
That is his postseason ERA against the Rays. Longoria owns him. His problem? Homeruns.
______
Longo owns many pitchers, but yes i agree Javier has trouble with HRs
Evan Longoria doesn’t even have 10 PA’s vs Vazquez in his career. Holy cow you might be the dumbest broad on the internet.
“I think Ben Zobrist had a higher WAR than yes you know it Albert Puljos this year, ill take that stat with a grain of salt thank you.”
Part of that is because WAR places too much emphasis on defense.
Yankee fans always want more.But I think this team has improved from last year(and we won the world series last year remember??)
We only need a LFer.
If the report are right,the Yankees will not spend a lot.Maybe DeRosa?or Dejesus??Anyway…the Yankees will have the best lineup in the game so let’s just be happy Cash did another great job today although I’m gonne miss Melky
(btw this blog will be empty without the Gardner vs Melky discussion haha)
So Vasquez has bad Playoff numbers against Longoria
That only matters if the R Sox are conceding the Wild card to the Rays
Jared Wright
2004 Atl 3.28
2005 NYY 6.08
Kyle Farnsworth
2005 Atl 1.98
2006 NYY 4.36
Javier Vazquez
2009 Atl 2.87
2010 NYY ????
OK FOLKS, lets take a poll what do you think Vazquez ERA and W/L record will be?
HC
GreenBerret,
I’m quaking in my boots. lol!
The Yankees have decided not to give arbitration to any of their Type A and B free agents over the past 3 years.
–
only because they were all threats to accept.
First we got rid of Johnny and now melky to integral clubhouse guys.
“No it’s not. CC projects to be significantly more valuable than lester.
CC and Roy are in an orbit of their own in terms of value created for pitchers.”
Maybe I’m overrating Lester but I’m not sure I agree with that. Can you explain this further?
—–
I read that in terms of value of pitchers Roy is like outer space while CC and Oswalt are the only two who come close and are more in the upper stratosphere.
“CC had a tired arm in both postseasons. Vazquez’s problem is mental.”
Well then I guess you and Vazquez have something in common
The blog is doing that thing again where there are all these weirdly crazy/nonsensical posts are being made. Can we get someone from Journal News IT to fix that?
Saint-
dont be so sure.
We will be getting further reports from deepthroat.
check for updates before forming a final answer.
P.S. I still think there is more room under the tree than most people, and Cash
is a good judge of value.
It could still happen.
Adding Holliday would make the payroll about 213 Million for next year (assuming an 18M per year contract). 211 M If they could unload Gaudin or mitre.
If these prospects were too good to give up for Javy then I wonder what you guys want for Montero?
Great job by Cash. Can you guys enjoy having a great GM? .
“You are relying on AJ? Good for you”
—————————————–
and you are relying on Matsuzuk and Bucholtz/Wakefield. Double good for you
See, even my post didn’t make sense! There is something going horribly wrong today. I blame Cashman.
“NO.27,
That is his postseason ERA against the Rays. Longoria owns him. His problem? Homeruns.”
4.36 is his regular season ERA against the Rays. Your problem? Not being smart enough to realize that ONE start out of almost 400 career starts means nothing.
Besides, do the Red Sox have any home run hitters on their team? Why don’t you worry about them?
Christina25
December 22nd, 2009 at 2:25 pm
CC had a tired arm in both postseasons. Vazquez’s problem is mental.
————————————————————
You have an inside look at mental issues. You’re buried in them.
Well then I guess you and Vazquez have something in common
–
Ice burn
Prince-
will Cash do 6/100 ?
because I think that gets it for sure.
Soft-Cap.
“CC had a tired arm in both postseasons. Vazquez’s problem is mental.”
Vazquez’s mechanics were out of whack in 2004 – as has been mentioned numerous times today. Besides, 15.2 innings is hardly an adequate sample size. You’re going to have to try harder if you want to criticize this deal.
In Re: Beckett and A.J.
Or A.J., the guy who is the consummate teammate, always their for his teammates despite struggling sometimes.
as opposed to
Beckett, who only cares for his self and his negative attitude. And the only time he comes to bat for his teammates is to try and hit Bobby Abreu in the head and decapitate him…. after they tragically lose their teammate.
Beckett is the definition of a bully.
Howard Cosell December 22nd, 2009 at 2:27 pm
Jared Wright
2004 Atl 3.28
2005 NYY 6.08
Kyle Farnsworth
2005 Atl 1.98
2006 NYY 4.36
Javier Vazquez
2009 Atl 2.87
2010 NYY ????
OK FOLKS, lets take a poll what do you think Vazquez ERA and W/L record will be?
HC
———–
No worse that 14-10 and a 4.50 ERA the stats he had the first time, thats good for a 4th stater don’t you think?
Law is an idiot. Joba/Hughes will battle it out for the last spot. It will bring out of the best in both of them imo.
Any chance they just go with colin curtis in left?
“I’m quaking in my boots. lol!”
—————————————-
your team is inferior and had a bad off-season. Get over yourself
If the Yankees traded for Johnson or Felix it would petrify me not Vazquez.
“Maybe I’m overrating Lester but I’m not sure I agree with that. Can you explain this further?”
You don’t project off only the prior season. You weight the prior season more – but you have to take the prior several seasons into account.
Generally 3 years of data are used.
Finally, the biggest issue in projecting value is the potential variation in innings pitched. CC is as big a lock to provide innings as anyone.
So while in 2009 CC and Lester were comparable, there is much more expected variance in Lester’s performance compared to CC’s given that CC is in his prime (and as such Lester’s age doesn’t give him that much of an advantage).
I believe CC projects as around 6.5 wins next year. I believe he looks to be the second most valuable pitcher in baseball after Roy (who projects to be over +7 wins). Lester will probably project to be +5-5.5 wins.
“No it’s not. CC projects to be significantly more valuable than lester.
CC and Roy are in an orbit of their own in terms of value created for pitchers.”
Expain if you could. Is it because Sabathia projects to pitch more innings?
say what you want about Melky’s numbers but he always was at his best when it was needed the most. How many players can you say that about? .304 last year in late and close situations. I’ve always thought there was something about Melky -that he was a winner and instilled that will to win in the souls of his teammates in a way that even Jeter and Posada could not do. I thought that idea came to a reality in 2009 but alas Cashman’s bean counters could not get past the mediocre numbers Melky puts on paper year after year – even though he probably had two dozen games this year where his contributions led directly to a win yet his average went down. I’ll leave you with this – with the game on the line who would you rather have at bat – a .320 hitting Cano or .259 hitting Melky. You do not give up winners with mediocre numbers for losers with great numbers. I rest my case.
If the Yankees traded for Johnson or Felix it would petrify me not Vazquez.
–
thank god the yankees still lead the league in petrification+ thanks to their all-star assembly of bats and hurlers.
I have to say – GB7…you have me laughing out loud with some of your posts today – must be all the meds
“First we got rid of Johnny and now melky to (sic) integral clubhouse guys.”
This is a logical, and well-thought out argument. I’m convinced that Cashman got screwed!
For those still hung up on what Vasquez did during his one and only Yankee season of 2004 ….. get over it. That ship sailed 5 years ago.
If Tony Clark’s hit doesn’t skip into the stands for a ground rule double, there would not have been a 7th game in the ALCS.
George Steinbrenner was livid and wanted Randy Johnson and the deal with Arizona had to include Vasquez or no deal.
There will always be delusional Boston fans that will attempt to rationalize a better pitching staff than what the Yankeees have. It’s the little brother syndrome at work, Keith Law and Gammons notwithstanding.
News Flash: Internet Blog poster Christina25 “not petrified at all” by 2009 World Champion Yankee’s moves in off-season. Last seen planning vacation time in October to avoid blog when Yankees become 2010 World Champions.
Any chance they just go with colin curtis in left?
———————————————–
don’t sleep on Hoffmann. Hope he makes it, if only laugh at all the prognosticators who write him off cuz he’s Rule 5
John Lackey actually leads the league in petrification, but that is more due to his gorgon-esque facial features.
Well, now that I’m over the trauma of Damon versus Vasquez in the 2004 ALCS…not really. The Yankees are over that karma forever (hey, Sox fans, there’s always hope) and I think giving Javy a chance or redemption will fly, just like ARod.
Vasquez was always solid, and an innings eater in both leagues. A solid AL #3 or #4, and he’s being paid as such. If I remember correctly he wasn’t too thrilled to be traded to AZ for Randy Johnson in 05, and said so at the time. I hope this attitude doesn’t continue, since him coming back now erases the Johnson fiasco in a way. Can he pitch in NY–that is the question, and the answer is likely yes. Joba to the pen–never would have thought it, but I guess Mo may really retire in the next 2-3 years, and you have to prepare.
Melky–they’re selling high. The choice now is Damon or Holliday. Wow. Johnny D will now come back at $8-9 x 2 after his near death experience, the players love him, and the GM said he’s the “perfect” number 2 for YS. Holliday is younger and more athletic, but he’ll cost a lot more in $$$$, years, and roster flexibility.
Dunn–that’s why Cash held him out of the Granderson 3 way?
Vizcaino–got to give to get. Signing Aroldis Chapman will make up for it.
Cash is a beast.
Has randy l checked in? He wanted an innings eater. And he got one!
Is Gardner even an option in LF? CF is sorta his thang, right?
Buster_ESPN:
Part of the reason why the NYY believe Vazquez will be better this time around is his arm angle-which was down in 2004,affecting his sinker.
One thing no one has touched up on. We actually hit 2 birds with one stone on this trade ala Teix last year. We got Vasquez and kept him away from the Halos which were rumored to be going after him. Win Win.
Vazquez 2010: 15-10, 4.01 era
180 k, 60 bb
In 2004 Javy was traded for and basically slotted as the #1b starter. Moose was 1a back then. Kevin Brown wasn’t expected to come in and win 20. He was already on the downslope.
This time around we’re asking him to pitch in the 3-4 spot. Not only that, but our chief rival who bludgeoned him in 2004 no longer has the roided out sluggers they used to nor do they have an all world talent like Manny in their lineup. They don’t even have Bay.
You’re going to love this trade because Javy doesn’t walk people. He strikes people out.
He also doesn’t have to be the man. He’s not replacing Pettitte and Clemens (like he was in 2004).
He’s coming into a championship rotation and being asked to just be himself.
He also doesn’t have to deal with the politics of Torre managing him this time.
I love the trade as it gives us the quality starter we craved and also doesn’t tie us down long term to him.
His 11.5 million and Andy’s 11.5 million come off the books next year. If neither are resigned, Cliff Lee might be in our rotation with money to spare for other needs.
But for 2010, it’s a great starting rotation that has depth in case anyone goes down.
LF is a problem and it needs to be fixed. I have faith in Cashman now like I never did before because he is making smart trades w/o giving up the crown jewels.
You may believe that Vizcaino is a crown jewel but we won’t know for many years.
Right now for 2010 we’re stacked and our pen just got better by the addition of Joba or Phil.
Bad offseason? I dont think so. Last year it was bad offseason when they signed Smoltz and Penny overpaid and injured rejects.Signing Lackey gives them the option to trade for bat.
“You do not give up winners with mediocre numbers for losers with great numbers. I rest my case.”
Just wanted to re-post this nonsense in case anyone missed it.
Numbers – factual, quantifiable data
“Winners/Losers” – arbitrary labels prone to extreme bias.
Remember, Carl Pavano has more rings than Don Mattingly, Ernie Banks and Ted Williams combined.
Perhaps Matsuzaka, Wakefield and Beckett can give Vazquez pointers on keeping the ball in the park.
OOOPss….maybe not. Never mind.
Yanks will probably add a left fielder. But the yanks can have a lefty/righty platoon with Gardner and Hoffmann and it wont be much of a dropoff from Melky.
Cashman did a great job trading Melky when his value was up.
Vincent,
“Great job by Cash. Can you guys enjoy having a great GM?”
I couldn’t agree more. I didn’t see the Vazquez trade at all. It was great news this a.m. when I arrived at work. The addition takes a lot of pressure off the three, not to mention Joba (assuming he beats out Hughes, which he should).
Cashman has made our team, especially our pitching, VERY deep.
And we will still likely add a decent LF.
It’d be great if we kept our payroll under 2009 just for humor’s sake.
Great post, G. Love. I agree whole-heartedly.
Jerkface we dont care about looks we care about performance.
Rishi
December 22nd, 2009 at 2:32 pm
I have to say – GB7…you have me laughing out loud with some of your posts today – must be all the meds
————————————————————
LMaO. That’s one good thing about the government….best drug dealers around.
G. Love,
You know what the saddest part about your post is?
The fact that if the Yankees sacked up and re-signed Pettitte after the 2003 season, we’d have been playing the Cardinals in the Worlds Series in 2004.
That series probably never would have gone 7 games, Kevin Brown never would have been given the ball, and Moose, Pettitte, Vazquez, and Lieber would have seen us through to the gloryland.
I know it is all conjecture, but that failure to re-sign Andy really sunk in for me in that ALCS.
“That is his postseason ERA against the Rays. Longoria owns him.”
If Christina is concerned about Vazquez facing Longoria in the postseason, that means she’s conceding that the Sox will not be there?
Jerkface
LOL. Lackey looks like a serial killer. That means he will fit right in with the Red Sox!
Mad Prince, NYY also had to rebuild 3/5ths of their rotation because Wells and Clemens also left.
So how can you gloat about performances that haven’t occured yet?
Per the POLL For 2010:
Vazquez 14-12 4.66
HC
Did we really get the pitcher with the 7th highest WAR over the last three seasons for a 4th OF and two prospects? Brian Cashman does it again. I’ve been hearing good things about Mike Dunn, but you have to give up talent to get it in return. And Arodys may rank highly in our farm system, but it seems that he is years away from seeing the majors. It was a great move to counteract Lackey signing with Boston.
Vazquez is one of the more underrated pitchers in baseball. I don’t expect a repeat of his 2009 performance, but he is a great pickup for the middle of our rotation. His salary of $11.5 million for next year is far less than the value he’s provided his teams annually. He throws 200 innings every year and since tracking WAR in 2002, four of Javy’s best five seasons were in the last four years.
I’m glad to see Melky gone, too. It’s not that I didn’t like him as a person, it was that I didn’t like that he’s been our starting CF over the last few years. Two possible things can happen– we get a stud LF or we don’t. Either way works for me.
If we get a LF FA, like Damon, then our offense will be much improved. It will virtually be an upgrade of Granderson’s bat over Cabrera’s bat (huge upgrade) and Nick Johnson for Matsui (even trade off, depending on what you value it can go either way. I think NJ is better). We would also have upgraded CF defense with Grandy over Melky.
If we don’t sign an outfielder, then Gardner and Granderson will roam 2/3 of the outfield. What a defensive upgrade. Plus, Gardner is just as good if not better offensively than Melky. Even if Joe isn’t sold with Gardner as an everyday starter, a guy like Hairston would be an upgrade defensively as well, if we resign him.
I think this puts the Yankees in a great position right now. They can either sign Hollday or Damon and make the team much better offensively. Or, they can stand pat and give Gardner a shot at everyday play to showcase his ability to get on base, run and play defense. If worst comes to worst, and Gardner can’t hack it as a quality starting OF, the Yankees can always acquire a player mid-season from a non-contending team looking to shed salary.
unbiased opinion:
Sabathia and Lester are close enough.
Beckett is prob a safer bet and better than Vazquez but it’s also fairly close.
Lackey is probably a hair better than AJ if healthy. AJ is just far too inconsistent. Good AJ is better. Bad AJ is far worse. I’d rather have Lackey if healthy.
I’d take Andy over Daisuke or Buchholz but at this point it’s hard to project since anything could happen. Daisuke is capable of pitching much better than he did last year but how much? Will Andy hold up? Will Buchholz locate his fastball better to set up his plus offspeed stuff?
Hughesy would seem to be a clear upgrade over Wakefield but he still needs to prove it. Outside of Yankeeland, Phil is a quality relief pitcher who
has to prove he can start. I believe he will, but let’s see it.
CB said it well. If the Sox have a better staff it’s not enough to make up for the other areas, where the Yanks hold a significant advantage.
Unless Hal loosens the pursestrings, it’s gonna be Damon or Reed Johnson in left.
If Javy Vazquez reaches 3000 career strikeouts…will he wear a Yankee Cap in Cooperstown
Some of you are idiots ! Javy is the 4th Starter I say again the 4th starter !
If you want to blame 2004 on Javy then you’re a idiot ! The entire team was to blame for the collapse including Joe Torre, and Game 7 was on Kevin Brown.
Javy had a good first half with the Yankees and was injured. And if some of you can recall Orlando Hernandez was not that great in the 2004 playoffs as well and he was injured. If you want to blame someone take a look at Kevin Brown.
GreenBeret,
Good point.
I think Wells is less of a factor, but the loss of Pettitte and Clemens hurt…though Clemens did say he was retiring, so I think that was anticipated.
The Yankees were fools for letting Pettitte walk.
Mad Prince,
I’m with you 1000% there. Letting Pettitte go over money was short sighted and silly.
I know we thought he was about the break down and he did have some injury issues in Houston, but having him atop that staff in 2004 would have made the difference. Every Yankee fan knows that in their hearts.
I’m of the mindset that Boston isn’t winning any titles again for a very long time.
Cashman is making smart moves. Not desperate moves. The minors are still stocked with talent.
He’s learned from the mistake of 2008 when he handed rotation spots to young pitchers who hadn’t earned them yet.
Joba and Phil will have to fight for the 5 spot and it’s going to make them stronger since I think the loser of that competition will do everything in his power to get that spot back. Just like Melky did with his competition with Gardner this year.
Javy’s not being asked to be the savior here. He’s being asked to pitch against most teams 3rd and 4th best starter which he is way more talented and skilled than.
RR
December 22nd, 2009 at 1:04 pm
Cahman must be an idiot. He missed signing Matsui and got Nick Johnson who spends most of his time on DL for the same price. Gets rid of our only superb defensive outfielder for Vasquez who is not able to pitch in NY. Let us go get Contrares and may be Irabu to complete the rotation. Why screw with what is not broken. He destroyed the yankee outfield
============================
Cashman is NOT an idiot.
Matsui was locked-in that he was going to play the outfield. This would not happen with the Yankees.
Please check out Nick Johnson’s career production.
FOZZIE BEAR (Melky) was certainly not a supurb outfielder.
Check out Mr. Vasquez’ production after the injury-plagued second half of 2004.
The outfield wasn’t broken – however it will be significantly better (once the next piece is finalized).
Please “google” Curtis Granderson – the NYY recently made a trade with Detroit. Once you catch-up and attempt to comprehend what has been done – most reasonable Yankee fans (maybe not yourself) will easily agree that we are an improved team.
And yes – your little precious Melky is gone – but go an Atlanta hat & a plane ticket – alot of good seats available at that Stadium !
He will do better in the weaker league where he honestly will be considered more than a 4th-5th outfielder, as he was here.
Sheeeeeesh.
Giving up an outfielder with a career ops of 716 and a young reliever for a strikeout pitcher who will pitch 200 innings and win around 15 games is a no brainer.
Seems everyone is basing this trade on next year. After next year, we may have nothing to show for it. And if the young pitchers we traded pitch close to their potential, we’ll wish we never made the trade.
Jeremy December 22nd, 2009 at 2:59 pm
Some of you are idiots ! Javy is the 4th Starter I say again the 4th starter !
If you want to blame 2004 on Javy then you’re a idiot ! The entire team was to blame for the collapse including Joe Torre, and Game 7 was on Kevin Brown.
Javy had a good first half with the Yankees and was injured. And if some of you can recall Orlando Hernandez was not that great in the 2004 playoffs as well and he was injured. If you want to blame someone take a look at Kevin Brown.
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Kevin Brown was injured too…
This deal helps the Yankees in 2010 even if Vazquez reverts to pitching the way he always has in the American League. A fourth starter just needs to keep you in the game and eat innings and Vazquez will do that. This takes the pressure off of the rotation. Anything more is gravy and you can re-sign him at the end of the season. I’d get another starter and keep Chamberlain and Hughes in the bullpen where they can be awesome. I like Bedard, Sheets if you must. Losing Cabrera and Dunn doesn’t hurt much. I was looking at Cabrera as sort of a righty semi-platoon with Granderson in center, seeing how Granderson is useless against lefties. Maybe Hoffman fills that role. Dunn is a raw lefty. Hard to say what he’ll develop in to.
We can argue forever whether Boston’s or the Yanks’ rotation is better on paper, but what I think the difference-maker is, is this: which rotation has more potential to excel, has the higher ceiling. IMO, this is how that stacks up:
Beckett will be in a salary-drive/walk year so he will be out of this world – look for him to win 20, easy. Dice-K has a lot to prove and if he’s healthy – and he certainly was when he came back last year – he will revert to form and that will mean 16-18 wins. I’ve watched Lackey out here in L.A. his entire career and he is a bonafide No. 1, also with a lot to prove (prove the Angels wrong, earn that contract) so I expect him to have a career year – also 16-18 wins. So for those three, IMO, that’s 52-56 wins alone.
Meanwhile, we have only one bonafide No. 1 and that’s CC. Can he possibly have that great a year twice in a row? Doubtful, but let’s say he does, wins 19-20. AJ reverted to form for us and it is unlikely we will see him duplicate ’08 in Toronto. And Andy is another year older. So with those three, IMO, maybe we get 45-50 wins.
That’s leaves the backend and the bullpens to make up the difference, and there I think it’s a wash between the two teams – Mo gives us an edge, and we don’t know yet who will be in the rotation and in the bullpen for the Yanks.
So IMO, Boston’s rotation has more potential than ours.
Wish we had guys like this when I played. Heck, Fritz Peterson was our best pitcher. Anyway, both Joba “the hut” Chambermaid and Phil “how are they hitting me?” Hughes BOTH below in the pig-pen.
I’d start Gaudin or Mitre as my fifth starter. Why not?
I can’t make sense of a single move the Yankees have made (or not made) this offseason, except for Granderson, and even that I am still debating as far as balance in regards to what we gave up to get him.
Vasquez pitching in the AL East is a disaster. I cannot believe they are willing to take this risk.
I’ll get criticized for this, but they have already disrupted a good chunk of chemisty from the 2009 squad. I’m not sure I understand Cashman’s goals for 2010.
“Wanna really kill the offense?
Give Brett Gardner 400 ABs.”
Yup, totally agree.