DeRosa leaning toward San Francisco
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 24, 2009 
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One thing I didn’t allow for when I planned this trip: My sister got engaged a few months ago and is in full wedding-planning mode. That makes computer time at my parents’ house a bit tough to come by.
But, it’s finally my turn.
Buster Olney is reporting that Mark DeRosa is leaning toward accepting a two-year offer from the Giants. He’s been a popular subject around here for obvious reasons — he can it pretty well for a guy who can play just about anywhere — but I’m not sure he falls into the bargain category that Brian Cashman is supposed to be shopping for.
Justin Duchscherer is officially out of the mix, having signed back with Oakland. One year at $5.5 million seems about right to me. He could be worth much more if he regains his 2008 form, but there’s considerable risk involved. The chances of him coming to the Yankees might never have been good, but they certainly became tiny after the Javier Vazquez trade.
Also, Matt Capps is off the market, having signed with Washington. Capps was kind of the highlight of the non-tenders this winter. He’ll get a chance to close for the Nationals, which means an eight-save season isn’t out of the question!
That would be good news. I don’t want DeRosa.
I’m not high on DeRosa either. Maybe this opens the Damon hole just a tiny bigger. Still hoping…
Looks like someone needs a laptop
Reed Johnson is 33. That’s not baseball young.
DeRosa going to SF means one less team that could have possibly signed Damon……
I stand by my original as-sessment, Yankee people. Johnny Damon will return to the Yankees
HenryfromDC December 24th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
I’m not high on DeRosa either. Maybe this opens the Damon hole just a tiny bigger. Still hoping…
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So is Erica.
If Holliday does finally accept the St. Louis offer and Bay actually gives in and goes to the Mets, Damon may have no other choice but to come back to the Yankees at the Abreu contract.
He’ll get a chance to close for the Nationals, which means an eight-save season isn’t out of the question!
LOL!
The laptop is a great invention, Chad. When my three brothers and I are at my parents’ house, it’s not unusual for three or four out of the six of us to be buried in our laptops simultaneously. Ah, togetherness.
You get what you pay for.
Thank goodness, then there will be no chance of the Yankees wasting money in him..
The Giants want DeRosa to play first, not left.
And boy, is Boras is a jam having advertised those multi-year offers for Johnny.
I suspect that Erica is really Scott Boras.
Rich in NJ
December 24th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
I suspect that Erica is really Scott Boras.
******
Oh wow.. if only
# Erica – always OPPC – Bring Johnny Back!!! December 24th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
DeRosa going to SF means one less team that could have possibly signed Damon……
I stand by my original as-sessment, Yankee people. Johnny Damon will return to the Yankees
# mick December 24th, 2009 at 2:29 pm
HenryfromDC December 24th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
I’m not high on DeRosa either. Maybe this opens the Damon hole just a tiny bigger. Still hoping…
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So is Erica.
==========================================================
I mean you said you are standing by your original ass-essment, didn’t you Erica?
Waiting on response from Erica….
happens every year, one player becomes the “pick” and everyone over rates him. De Rosa would hit maybe 260-270 range with a few homers. He is versatile, but so are alot of guys. His numbers are good enough to go crazy over. I would screw it and grab Bay, thus getting a legit bat in LF. He can hit in the AL East and is battle tested. Hes better than Holliday because he has done it in the AL where Holliday struggled. Up the price of the hot dogs and lets get him, and of course we could tweak the Mets too!
Abdababdaserser
December 24th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
You get what you pay for.
Not always (See Carl Pavano).
mick
December 24th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
Waiting on response from Erica….
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I stand by the statement I have been making pretty much all of the 2009 season- and post season. Johnny Damon will return to the Yankees
Chad,
Glad you made it here through all the weather.
Justin Duchscherer ready to be off the boards, back to the A’s.
DeRosa to Giants.
Glad to hear that.
Matt Capps to the Nationals, joining Brian Bruney. Hey, they may just finish ahead of the Mets after all.
Glad DeRosa is going to SF and not the Yankees.
get rid of mitre freeing up some cash and sign damon…reed johnson is a waste
I’ve never understood the general fascination with DeRosa. His offense is far from astounding (fair power, average to decent OBP, no bonus of speed). His much heralded versatility (SS, 2B, 3B, OF, 1B) is far overrated. Even when he was younger and could still play up the middle positions, his defense was subpar to average at best. Perhaps he’s just a really good guy in the clubhouse. See how far that takes you.
Patrick
December 24th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
Glad DeRosa is going to SF and not the Yankees.
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Agreed. I’ve never really seen the appeal of DeRosa
Erica, I have a feeling its either gonna be Holliday or Damon in LF next year. Holliday if the budget is flexible, Damon if its not. Dreams can come true you know…
Joe Vogel, if you shop bargain prices you get the scraps. If the Yanks are looking to go cheap, then they are better off doing nothing other than having Gardner out there.
Damon, DeRosa, Dye? I’d rather pay league minimum for defense that poor.
The Yankees overpaid for Pavano, so now they sign Johnson to DH who might challenge Pavano on creative DL stints list.
blake
December 24th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
Erica, I have a feeling its either gonna be Holliday or Damon in LF next year. Holliday if the budget is flexible, Damon if its not. Dreams can come true you know…
******
You are speaking to the girl that said in 2003 that Johnny Damon will one day be a Yankee.
Everyone said I was insane then…….
Pat M
December 24th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
GB, Over the years I’ve got to know George in a very casual way by way of Charity Golf Tournaments….He knows of my baseball background, and that I’m a Lifer Yankee fan….He always reminds me of his upper tank shot off of The Goose back in October 1980 & the of course I have to remind him of Chris Chambliss blast off of Mark Littel in October 1776……He has said in the past that when the calendar reads August 2nd, he devouts a moment of silence for Thurman Munson…..Good guy, just orbits his tee shots , but is an average or so golfer…..
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Pat, G. Brett used to annoy me in but it was always with an adniration for his talents and class/respect for the game.
The one thing that i;ve always wondered was by Kenny Brett didn’t convert over to the outfield. He has as good a hitter as George. It was quite a shock that he died so young. He was another pitcher that boston used up and discarded.
Johnny must feel he’s getting screwed like the RS did to him.
If he swallows his pride he might come back, unless we don’t really want him for some reason.
This may be the 2nd straight year that Boras screws a client into a worse deal than what he would have had if he had taken the original offer. Remember, last year when Boras took Varitek onto a barren catcher market (Who’s going to sign an aging catcher in serious decline and give up a 1st round pick in the process? Answer: no one) when Varitek ultimately signed a 2 year deal worth less than what he would have made if he had accepted arbitration.
If Damonm stays on the market too long, he may be the one without a chair when the music stops.
It seems like the past few years Boras has made quite a few miscalculations with issues like Damon’s. It makes you wonder how many more times he can screw over his clients until it makes an impact on his business.
Let me first start out by wishing everyone a Merry Christmas.
Are you guys blind!? We already filled our dh role and signing Damon would mean its back to advanture land in left. Might as well sign Duncan to play that role. At least he has a gun for an arm(I am in no way proposing this to happen). Damon is out of options here. Its time for him to go back to where it all started K.C. and enjoy his multi year contract while losing a 100 games. Learning to play first base or pitching.
One attractive thing about Damon is that if and when Nick Johnson goes down, Damon will be there to DH.
Then we pick up a LFer, if needed.
Pat m, that’s awesome that you know Brett, that guy is the definition of a baseball player.
Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe relays some details of John Lackey’s contract with Boston, including an interesting conditional option: If an old elbow injury forces Lackey to miss significant time over the course of his contract, he’d have to play for the league minimum in 2015.
Boras seems to have too full a plate, casting aside lower tier players.
cannot be the everyday LF they need to get a legit player
The Yankees overpaid for Pavano, so now they sign Johnson to DH who might challenge Pavano on creative DL stints list.
Abdababdaserser:
There’s a big difference between Pavano and Johnson. Pavano was on a 8 figure 4 year deal while Johnson is on a one year deal worth half of the annual rate of Pavano. The injury risk is minimal in his case as the expectation for him is realistically somewhere between 400-500 plate appearances. Remember, half of the Yankees lineup is going to need semi-regular DH days (Posada, Rodriguez, Damon if he ends up in the Bronx, even Jeter and Teixeira).
Reed Johnson is a decent enough idea. He kills lefties. That would set up a nice platoon with him and Gardner. Johnson is also a pretty good fielder.
I’d prefer Marlon Byrd but a Johnson/Gardner platoon isn’t bad.
“Reed Johnson is 33. That’s not baseball young.”
For a one year rental as a platoon player, who cares.
SOS, Damon can still hit and honestly if he could throw at all he wouldn’t be nearly as bad in LF. If his price falls far enough I would rather have his bat in the lineup than any of these other second tier guys. He would be my second choice after Holliday. If not those two I’d just let ggbg play and focus on run prevention for LF
I have no problems bringing Johnny back to be the LF for 1 year and $5 million. Nick can still DH. Gardner can still be the 4th OF/defensive replacement/pinch-runner.
I’d choose Damon over Reed Johnson, DeRosa, and any of these other options bandied about, as long as it’s only 1year.
If an old elbow injury forces Lackey to miss significant time over the course of his contract, he’d have to play for the league minimum in 2015.
========
When 2015 comes around. Lackey will be throwing pitches to home plate left handed. Can you say Smoltz/Penny part II, only this time its a longer movie. And here i thought Alex for 10 years was too many. At least Alex will still more than likely still have a dangerous bat.
“It seems like the past few years Boras has made quite a few miscalculations with issues like Damon’s.”
To be fair, the macroeconomic times of last two years have presented a tough market for non-star players, and Boras hasn’t been the only agent to “miscalculate.”
FWIW, Francesa has said that he has heard that Damon has had some financial reverses due to bad investments. If that’s true, an alternative possibility is that Damon has told Boras that he wants to hold out for the biggest offer possible rather than accept a smaller deal that would be more reflective of the current market.
I don’t think Johnny’s coming back, i’m not quite sure the Yanks have enough budget room for even a bargain deal. Someone would have to give him at least 2/14, he’s still a good player. If by some miracle he does come back, the lineup is absolutely stacked, who could you even bat 9th? Granderson as a wrap around leadoff guy?
Damon is holding out for a two year contract now. I don’t know if any team is going to give him that, but he’ll wait as long as possible if Boras keeps promising him he can get it for him.
Why wouldn’t Johnny take 1 year at 5m with a club option for 2m in the 2nd year?
Take the 7m and become a FA again.
i like derosa, but not for $6m
reed johnson would be ok as a platoon and for the right $
i think our offense can carry a platoon of gardner/johnson/etc in an of spot
we don’t need an all-star at every position
Blake,
It isnt his girlyman arm that worries me. We knew we were getting that at the press conference. Its his inability to read the balls and catch pop ups last year. First time i saw him miss play a pop fly last year was in a day game. So i excused it as the sun getting in his eyes. But not long after that it was in evening games as well. Maybe we could turn off the lights when a ball is hit to left field next year. He looked like Alex hovering around a pop fly. BTW, his average dipped to .280 last year. Could that be a sign of the delcline at the plate as well? Id pass on him and maybe use a couple more chips for an outfielder if they dont like whats in the market this year.
Rich,
True the economy has hurt the market, but it’s the agents job to understand the market. Did anybody really think that Damon would get a 4/50 deal this year? Varitek last year? It’s just unrealistic.
Hello and Merry Christmas!
I did some catching up on the past few threads and wanted to comment on the Red Sox renewed interest in Jason Bay.
I agree with those who believe his signing with the Sox would be the first domino to fall for Holliday to come to NY.
The only wild card is the Mets.
If they miss out on Bay will they go all-in on Holliday and overpay or will they accept an offseason where they’re top free agent get is Jon Garland?
And even if they show a willingness to outbid the Yanks for Holliday by a longshot, what’s to stop Holliday from choosing the winner for less money as Tex did when he rejected an insane offer from the Nats to sign with the Yankees?
Now that Boston has a better sense of potential trade targets for Ellsbury, they can more comfortably add Bay.
I agree with posters who point to Atlanta as a possible destination for Adrian Gonzalez and think that Miguel Cabrera is too pricey for the Sox, especially if they add Bay to go along with their other off-season payroll additions.
But one name that nobody has mentioned as a trade target for the Sox is Prince Fielder.
The Brewers have their franchise player in Braun and probably would love to have a boatload of prospects for Prince since his salary is escalating as he nears his big payday in free agency.
Could Prince Fielder be a Sox?
His swing certainly profiles as a Yankee-killer type swing.
With Lowell and Ortiz off the books in 1 year, he fits their budget.
Rich in NJ
December 24th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
“It seems like the past few years Boras has made quite a few miscalculations with issues like Damon’s.”
To be fair, the macroeconomic times of last two years have presented a tough market for non-star players, and Boras hasn’t been the only agent to “miscalculate.”
FWIW, Francesa has said that he has heard that Damon has had some financial reverses due to bad investments. If that’s true, an alternative possibility is that Damon has told Boras that he wants to hold out for the biggest offer possible rather than accept a smaller deal that would be more reflective of the current market
I’ll grant you that Boras is not the only agent providing near-sighted financial advice. Perhaps Cashman should switch to the agent side of the equation as he was astute enough before the market faltered to not offer arbitration to any of last year’s FA’s (Abreu, Pettitte, etc.), thereby saving the Yankees at least $20 million for those 2 alone.
Regarding Damon’s possible financial woes, just because he needs the extra year and higher salary doesn’t mean that it will appear. I think we both know that it he will probably end up with a deal somewhere very close to the 2 years and $19 million that the Yankees offered, with whom is yet to be determined.
Damon’s AVGs as a Yankee:
2006: .285
2007: .270
2008: .303
2009: .282
His AVG didn’t slip, it normalized.
Girlyman? Really?
Derosa may not be spectacular at any one thing, but, he’d be a much better fit that Hairston was. He can play adequately and the positions and he’d be the best position. There was absolutely nothing that Hairston did that was any more than average, either. Derosa does have decent power and hits well to right and right center.
Erica,
I know this is off topic, but did you see the muppets singing the 12 Days of Christmas on Jimmy Fallon last night? They were very good-especially Miss Piggy
Sos, if you disregard Damons arm then he’s he’s probably a little below average in LF but he’s not a butcher out there. I’m for signing Holliday and fixing the LF longterm, However if that’s not an option then we already know Damon fits in the clubhouse, wants to return, and can still hit. I wouldn’t give him more than a year though and if he wouldn’t accept that then I’m going with Gardner. All of the other options are very Mediocre or injury risks.
Joe
“Regarding Damon’s possible financial woes, just because he needs the extra year and higher salary doesn’t mean that it will appear. ”
I agree. I’m just offering an alternative scenario on whether it was the agent or the principal that may have misread the market.
btw, I read the Yankees offered 2 for $14m.
“I think we both know that it he will probably end up with a deal somewhere very close to the 2 years and $19 million that the Yankees offered, with whom is yet to be determined.”
I don’t think he’s going to get 19M, otherwise we would’ve heard some rumor of an offer. Once Holliday and Bay go then the rest of the outfieldes are at the mercy of this depressed market which means the other clubs don’t have to overpay for any of them.
I agree with posters who point to Atlanta as a possible destination for Adrian Gonzalez and think that Miguel Cabrera is too pricey for the Sox, especially if they add Bay to go along with their other off-season payroll additions.
Bret the Hitman:
Atlanta doesn’t have the long-term money available for Gonzalez. Trading for him now would be akin to their previous deal for Teixeira, another slugging 1B that they couldn’t afford to sign.
“Derosa may not be spectacular at any one thing, but, he’d be a much better fit that Hairston”
He also wants three times what Hairston made last season (and two years) and probably won’t get the PT to justify that salary. (I don’t want Hairston either.)
The Muppets were on Jimmy Fallon last night? Ugh. Really wish I had known about that.
He doesn’t have any other offers, so does he even have a choice?
“To be fair, the macroeconomic times of last two years have presented a tough market for non-star players, and Boras hasn’t been the only agent to “miscalculate.””
But Boras’s fundamental argument through all of this is that in fact the macroeconomic environment has not affected microeconomic environment of baseball nearly as much as it is purported to have.
As such, Boras is arguing that salaries should continue to go up because industry related revenues are still growing (which I’m not sure if they in fact are or aren’t, or if the distribution of growth is so skewed that most teams aren’t growing.) Boras is arguing that in fact the macroeconomy is not fully correlated with the baseball economy.
And in general, he’s getting very little traction with that argument and it’s getting very mixed results.
Eric
“True the economy has hurt the market, but it’s the agents job to understand the market”
That’s true, but the agent works for the principal (the player), and sometimes principals don’t listen to good advice.
pat m-
whenever i think of george brett i think of charley lau.i have the most beat up charley lau hitting book you’ll ever see.
i’m going to have to dig that book up and read it again.
btw, I read the Yankees offered 2 for $14m.
Rich:
Thanks for the correction. Too much pasta, not enough vino for lunch.
Give Art Tellum credit for getting Matsui the Angel gig…..He didn’t want anypart of Chicago…..Really, other than playing for the NY Yankees, playing for the Angels in Anaheim is not a bad place to end your career…..Make no mistake, he’ll be missed……Should be of interest how many times that will be mentioned here at The LoHud over the course of this upcoming season……
Atlanta just dumped the Vazquez contract, added an outfielder (Melky) to make Heyward possibly available and also just added a very hot commodity in Arodys Vizcaino.
As they trim payroll and add pieces, perhaps they’re targetting a franchise player like Adrian Gonzalez.
CB
“But Boras’s fundamental argument through all of this is that in fact the macroeconomic environment has not affected microeconomic environment of baseball nearly as much as it is purported to have.”
Don’t you think that’s merely spin? If he makes the counterargument, it would be tantamount to a tacit admission that his clients’ salaries should shrink.
Have any other teams been linked to Damon? I had heard possibly Atlanta but now that they have Melky they don’t need Damon.
craw,
I was just updating the person who called him young. I broke the RJ news and I wouldn’t mind him on the bench.
Damon is an option for clubs that don’t want to spend the big bucks on Holliday or Bay: Cardnials, boston, Giants, Mets, and Yankees. Not sure if there are any others.
The Yankees don’t want him for more than they’ve initially offered. boston probably donesn’t want him back. That leaves St. Louis, Giants, and Mets as remaining options.
I feel like money-ball type valuation of players has finally fully permeated through the league. It’s not longer a niche thing but rather a pretty ingrained part of most teams front offices in some respect.
I don’t think Boras was expecting that. He relied on people over-valuing players. Can you say Barry Zito?
Now the other foot has come down and he needs to adapt and make smarter decisions for his clients.
Really wish the Yanks had offered Damon arbitration. No way he would have taken it by the deadline when he was still posturing for a 4 year deal. We coulda landed some draft picks.
Fran (the original) and OPPC mem
December 24th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
Erica,
I know this is off topic, but did you see the muppets singing the 12 Days of Christmas on Jimmy Fallon last night? They were very good-especially Miss Piggy
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NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Muppets are never off-topic
Youtube awaits…..
Fran (the original) and OPPC member
December 24th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
Have any other teams been linked to Damon? I had heard possibly Atlanta but now that they have Melky they don’t need Damon.
*******
Other than the Yankee chatter there is really no buzz… at all
Brett, if the braves do that then the sox can forget about Adrian.
Erin,
It is on the show website at NBC.com. You can watch it.
Nick D.
Moneyball was about identifying undervalued skills in order to maximize a limited budget. I’m not sure how that applies to your point.
Fran (the original) and OPPC member
December 24th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
Erin,
It is on the show website at NBC.com. You can watch it.
************
Coolness. Thanks, Fran!!
Erin-
Here’s the link fromt he Jimmy Fallon home page.
http://www.latenightwithjimmyf.....christmas/
Fran- thanks for the heads up!!!!
Erica,
I hope Johnny comes back to the Yankees, but I wonder if the Mets would consider him especially if they don’t get Bay.
Cash, just sign Johnny D and get it over with. You know you’re gonna do it eventually!
yeah, when you need a #5 hitter, Johnny Damon should be your first choice.
“… industry related revenues are still growing (which I’m not sure if they in fact are or aren’t, or if the distribution of growth is so skewed that most teams aren’t growing.) ”
CB:
I love this. According to the commissioner’s office and the owners, revenues are going up when they are promoting the game. However, when topics such as the need to retain baseball’s antitrust exemption, the need for municipalities to publicly fund new ballparks, and the need for revenue sharing are discussed, most teams “are just scratching by” and many are “operating in the red”.
Ultimately, I guess the description of the game’s financial state comes down to what charge the powers to be are arguing and creative accounting practices (amortorizing player contracts?).
“craw,
I was just updating the person who called him young. I broke the RJ news and I wouldn’t mind him on the bench.”
You’re the second person claiming credit for Reed Johnson which is quite funny in itself.:)
randy l.
December 24th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
pat m-
whenever i think of george brett i think of charley lau.i have the most beat up charley lau hitting book you’ll ever see.
i’m going to have to dig that book up and read it again.
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I hope you can read better than you play golf. I hear that book has a lot of pictures in it. One in particular should interest you. It shows which end of the bat to hold.
LMAO.
Whether or not revenue growth is occurring for all MLB teams, owners are still experiencing an accrual of equity.
Blake,
I agree. Since it is a possibility, Boston must be pursuing multiple options for a big bat at 1b via trade.
That’s what made me think of Prince Fielder as a potential target for the Sox.
The Sox have Ellsbury, Anderson and pitching to offer the Brewers.
Thanks for the link, Erica!
Fran (the original) and OPPC member
December 24th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
Erica,
I hope Johnny comes back to the Yankees, but I wonder if the Mets would consider him especially if they don’t get Bay.
*************
Ugh- but who would want to be a Met?
I don’t think the Brewers or the Tigers are interested in trading their star players unless Boston knocks them over with a package that has more than Ellsbury and Anderson in it.
Pat M, you should hear Eckersley gush about Mo………Mo is something else. I didn’t know George Brett takes a moment every year to remember Thurman Munson – what classy, decent guy he must be.
I don’t get the argument that we won in 1998 (one of the all-time greatest teams maybe THE greats) and 1999-2000 with a rotating LF so why not now? First of all Gardner is a far worse hitter than even Ledee and Curtis. Second of all, the division is brutal – you improve your team when you have the chance to. LF is a position of need and if the Yankees choose to fill it with Holliday, then good for them. Crawford isn’t as good and he’ll not be very good once his legs go. I’m not married to Holliday, but I just want a solid LF that we can stick out there for some years. I trust Cash to figure out who that player is – I do not believe BG will be starting.
Really wish the Yanks had offered Damon arbitration. No way he would have taken it by the deadline when he was still posturing for a 4 year deal. We coulda landed some draft picks.
Nick D:
Considering that a player cannot take more than a 20% cut in arbitration, Damon made $13 million last year, and that an arbiter would have likely decided on a figure of around $15 million (as long as Damon didn’t ask for something outlandish), Damon may very well have taken arbitration. This situation is extremely similar to Abreu’s last year except that I’m guessing that Damon will not have to settle for one year and five million.
OK, that Fallon clip was awesome! LOL at Fozzie forgetting his cues. Robin looked mighty cute in his little sweater and hat.
Damon:
(older article)
This is almost the exact chronology of events:
http://ruthianclout.mlblogs.co.....=obnetwork
Holliday:
Boras pretty much told Cash the same thing about Holliday.. he lost on his performance with Damon, and has lost on his performance with Holliday.
Cash has moved on, but not because he thinks anything less of Holliday’s value, but because of Boras’s demands. It’s not only far reaching, but it is flat-out ludicrous. Has he dropped his demands at all? Yep. I don’t know how much, but not a lot.
Based on everything that has transpired, no one thinks a Holliday deal is realistic.
What the market has defined to pay Holliday is low, but it is what it is.. Boras aint having it. Or is he?
Reed Johnson:
I’d just assume stick with Gardner than sign RJ. He has some talent no doubt, but this not what this team needs. His main talent if you remember is his ability to get hit by a pitch.. (and that’s mostly because people can’t stand the presence of him).
Blake,
I guess if its him or the other guys for 1 year. Id take Johnny as long as we have a possible defensive replacement for late innings. I wonder why the Yankees were able to help with Swishers looly pop throws but havnt been able to help Damons?
Rich,
Just his arm is girlymanish. Actually i know some girls that can throw much harder than he does. Maybe that isnt a good word to describe his arm. Am i the only one thats going to miss the eye candy of a wife Damon has? Does this move Posadas wife to the hottest on the team?
I still blame Johnny Damon……..he’s the boss, if he wanted to stay badly enough he would have told Boras to make it happen no matter what. I’ve already moved on from him. I love Johnny, but he’s an awful LF……and I don’t think he’ll come crawling back anyway (which is the only way I can see the Yankees signing him……and even that isn’t a guarantee).
Betsy,
While I do not believe Bret Gardner will be the starting LF either, if he does then I am not too worried about it. This Yankee line up features Derek Jeter, Nick Johnson, Mark Teixeira, Alex Rodriguez, Jorge Posada, Curtis Granderson, Robinson Cano, and Nick Swisher. That’s a heavy, heavy hitting line up. I could live with our #9 hitter not being a particularly strong one.
Crawdaddy,
I agree. In order to pry away Prince Fielder from the Brewers, the Sox would have to add some serious quality pitching to go along with Ellsbury and Anderson.
Prince is getting pricey for the small market Brewers.
They can’t afford to keep both Braun and Fielder and Fielder is definitely more likely to go out of those 2.
He’s already costing 10 mil for them.
Sooner or later, they have to think about reloading before it’s too late and Prince leaves for a couple draft picks.
Brett, I think the main reason the sox signed Cameron was because they knew they were going to try to trade Ellsbury. The problem is that the rest of baseball sees Ellsbury for what he is, which is melky with more speed.
Ugh- but who would want to be a Met?
**************************
Good point Erica. But it may be better than playing on a looser team in the middle of nowhere. At least he can stay in NY.
Macroeconomic? Microeconomic? Oy vey – I’m confuzzled.
Randy, my Christmas present to you is that for the rest of the year, I’m going to be nice to you and not rag you about your golf game
Nahhhhh….I can’t do it. Too much stress on me. I can probably last until midnight tonight, though. Best I can do.
Whenever I think of Charley Lau, I think of the movie Max Dugan Returns, with a very young Matthew Broderick. I doubt anyone else remembers it, but Lau played a small (but important) role in turning Broderick’s character from Brett Gardner to Matt Holliday.
Nick D.
Moneyball was about identifying undervalued skills in order to maximize a limited budget. I’m not sure how that applies to your point.
—–
Exactly. People started identifying skill sets that are better to valuate player by. Rather then overpaying veterans, people could turn to more cost-effective younger guys and get the same production. It isn’t as if the moneyball frame of mind can’t apply to larger budget clubs as well.
Boras still thinks people will overpay for a Johnny Damon or a Jason Varitek based on their reputation when actually teams are much better at now lookign at these higher end metrics and being able to make better decisions based on cheaper players and bringing these veterans salaries down to where they should be.
I think it’s a legit point…
i guess I might be wrong in exactly some ofthe words I choose but i think you can get the general gist of what i’m saying.
Bret,
Milwaukee is drawing 3M fans a year, if they give up Fielder then their attendance can take a serious hit. Sometimes, it might be more prudent to take the draft choices as Braun is signed to a 45M contract thru 2015.
Whatever happened to Seattle going after Bay? I thought they were going for the jugular this year? No one mentions Seattle in anyone of the destinations for Holliday or Bay.
blake
December 24th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
Brett, I think the main reason the sox signed Cameron was because they knew they were going to try to trade Ellsbury. The problem is that the rest of baseball sees Ellsbury for what he is, which is melky with more speed.
—
I think he’s definitely not valuable enough on his own to snag Fielder but he’s certainly a valuable piece in a package.
Am i the only one thats going to miss the eye candy of a wife Damon has?
SOS:
One problem: I can never figure out which parts are real and which have been altered. Seriously, if you look closely, Johnny and Michelle Damon look like they could be brother and sister. I’ll stop right there.
NIck D, I disagree – Damon would have taken arb in a flash.
Why would any NL team want him? He’s a horrible LF and he won’t be able to DH at times.
SoS
They traded for Milton Bradley instead.
Lost-in, I understand what you are saying but what I don’t understand is why Cashman needs to be in a rush to move on. There are several backup options out there including just going with Gardner. Couldn’t they just wait it out until Boras finally cracks and then evaluate whether to buy or not at that point. I just don’t see the rush. What exactly are they rushing to?
Really wish the Yanks had offered Damon arbitration. No way he would have taken it by the deadline when he was still posturing for a 4 year deal. We coulda landed some draft picks.
Nick D:
Considering that a player cannot take more than a 20% cut in arbitration, Damon made $13 million last year, and that an arbiter would have likely decided on a figure of around $15 million (as long as Damon didn’t ask for something outlandish), Damon may very well have taken arbitration. This situation is extremely similar to Abreu’s last year except that I’m guessing that Damon will not have to settle for one year and five million.
—–
Might he have? sure. I just think that for what he was looking for he wouldn’t have. I REALLY think Boras would have convinced him he could have gotten more years at around 13 mil/per.
I think it would have been a decent gamble.
“I think it would have been a decent gamble.”
Sorry, but I have to trust Cashman’s judgement in this case because he’s the one dealing with the market and knows the real odds of such a gamble.
Ok. so we can cross Derosa off the list
Holliday- not coming
Derosa – not coming
Damon – not coming
Nady – not coming
Bay – not coming
that leaves us with
Vlad – ???
Dye – ????
crawdaddy
December 24th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
Bret,
Milwaukee is drawing 3M fans a year, if they give up Fielder then their attendance can take a serious hit. Sometimes, it might be more prudent to take the draft choices as Braun is signed to a 45M contract thru 2015.
—
As long as they have Braun, they’ll keep those 3M fans.
They just can’t keep both Braun and Fielder.
Fielder will be looking for Teixeira money when he reaches free agency.
As for taking draft picks over a proposed package of talent from the Sox?
Depends on the quality of the talent IMHO.
“I think it would have been a decent gamble.”
Sorry, but I have to trust Cashman’s judgement in this case because he’s the one dealing with the market and knows the real odds of such a gamble.
—-
Fair enough.
I’m not killing Cash for this because you are totally right in assuming he knew way more about this situation than I ever will.
Just the posturing and demands of damon so far have made be personally believe that he would not have taken a 1 year deal even if it gave him a slight bump in salary.
I fully admit that I could be totally wrong. Just an opinion on the matter.
Vlad – not coming
Dye – not coming
Blake, perhaps he’s tired of Boras’ games (if indeed Cash was ever serious about Holliday in the first place). I say good for him…..Screw Boras, I’m sorry. He’s a great agent, but standing firm is the only way to deal with him. Boras preys on the wimpy and the dumb, neither of which Cashman is. If Holliday wants to come to the Yankees, and the Yankees show interest, great – Holliday will come on their terms. If not, he’ll play for his 2nd or 3rd choice…..
Milwaukee is drawing 3M fans a year, if they give up Fielder then their attendance can take a serious hit.
======
Maybe Selieg can buy the rest of the remaining empty seats for the season with all the money he stoled while sitting on his hands as a commisioner once he retires(can someone help me put the commas and periods in the proper places? Thank you in advance.).
Nick D:
There is one more point that should be made about evaluating players. It is not strictly limited to the quality of a player’s performance on the field and that going foward. It also includes any opportunity costs of signing/trading for the player (including the relinquishing of draft picks, other players or taking on a bad contract, getting rid of a headache player). In sum, deals don’t occur in a vacuum (I like player A better than B on the field, I choose player A. Player A might be Milton Bradley and player B might be Carlos Silva. Neither appetizing, but a team might opt for the inferior player).
“I think it would have been a decent gamble.”
Sorry, but I have to trust Cashman’s judgement in this case because he’s the one dealing with the market and knows the real odds of such a gamble.
—-
Fair enough.
I’m not killing Cash for this because you are totally right in assuming he knew way more about this situation than I ever will.
Just the posturing and demands of damon so far have made be personally believe that he would not have taken a 1 year deal even if it gave him a slight bump in salary.
I fully admit that I could be totally wrong. Just an opinion on the matter.
——-
At least not have taken it by the deadline…
Today i’m sure he takes it in a heartbeat.
http://www.time.com/time/speci.....32,00.html
Good for Alex!
“As long as they have Braun, they’ll keep those 3M fans.
They just can’t keep both Braun and Fielder.
Fielder will be looking for Teixeira money when he reaches free agency.
As for taking draft picks over a proposed package of talent from the Sox?
Depends on the quality of the talent IMHO.”
We just have to disagree because I don’t see the Brewers trading Fielder this offseason and if you do then show me the proof of that speculation?
Mike,
Vlads a dh now.
Whos the better defender from these 3?
Dye
Bay
Damon
Yankees 2010 LF–Dan Pasqua (He will finally show the world that he can hit left-handed pitching)
GB, You need to lighten up on Randy I ( The Original Tin Cup ), he’s been a rather good lad as of late…..Then of course he knows Santa is on his way……He wants a new Rawlings cather’s mitt for Christmas…..The Bill Dickey model
Blake:
He’s moving on. Done. How would you feel if you were attempting to inquire about purchasing something that you knew has N value, yet the seller told you not to bother calling about it if you didn’t have at least N x 3 on the table, more than once.
You move on. Unless by some great chance that the seller calls you and says okay okay, you win.. let’s do it. You’re not getting it. Nobody believe that Boras will make that call.
Nick D:
There is one more point that should be made about evaluating players. It is not strictly limited to the quality of a player’s performance on the field and that going foward. It also includes any opportunity costs of signing/trading for the player (including the relinquishing of draft picks, other players or taking on a bad contract, getting rid of a headache player). In sum, deals don’t occur in a vacuum (I like player A better than B on the field, I choose player A. Player A might be Milton Bradley and player B might be Carlos Silva. Neither appetizing, but a team might opt for the inferior player).
——
Very true…but the very fact that a team is still willing to employ a Milton Bradley (or in any sport like Ron Artest in the NBA) means that talent will in many cases trump personality.
Obviously not all cases though or else Barry Bonds would probably be DHing somewhere in the AL.
Respect the point for sure Joe. Just, imo not as big of a factor as the talent factor is to valuation.
Prince Fielder will be looking for Mark Teixeira money AND is 2 years away from free agency (2010 + 2011)
Next offseason, he’s a 1 year rental.
S.O.S–
Mike,
Vlads a dh now.
Whos the better defender from these 3?
Dye
Bay
Damon
yikes !. i’d probably go with Damon. at least he could ge to the balls. . lol
However . of the 3. Its Dye that has the best shot of signing with the Yanks.
Seriously, if you look closely, Johnny and Michelle Damon look like they could be brother and sister. I’ll stop right there.
========
Joe V.,
In their defense. They do say when youv been married for awhile you begin to look alot alike. Im not going to take your advice though and study the situation. Im not going to let you sprinkle salt on my candy.
Betsy, I understand your point but you can’t make this about whether or not you like Boras. Boras is just trying to get the most money he can for his client (that’s his job). My point is that all of the Yankees other needs are filled and there are still several options available that could play LF. Let Boras have his fun and when he finally gets real with the pricing then determine if it makes sense. If it doesn’t then someone will still be around I’m sure.
Pat M,
Were you in the game? Or another sport and got to know some of these mlb stars? Does Brett still think he got robbed on that pine tar incident?
Lost in Holliday-in
December 24th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
Blake:
He’s moving on. Done. How would you feel if you were attempting to inquire about purchasing something that you knew has N value, yet the seller told you not to bother calling about it if you didn’t have at least N x 3 on the table, more than once.
You move on. Unless by some great chance that the seller calls you and says okay okay, you win.. let’s do it. You’re not getting it. Nobody believe that Boras will make that call.
—
That could all change if Bay signs with the Sox and the Mets pony up the offer for Holliday that Boras needs as leverage to try to extort more money from the Yanks.
The Yankees, once they see the Mets offer, can simply slightly outbid the Cards and leave it up to Holliday to choose between losing at higher pay or winning at lower pay. Tex chose the Yanks over the Nats. Hopefully Holliday chooses the Yanks over the Mets.
But we’re not there yet.
The Sox are playing the waiting game as well, hoping the Yankees will settle on a stop-gap measure in LF.
The base salary for Duchscherer’s deal is just $2MM. Reportedly $5.5MM with incentives. Good for him.
And once you could argue that Igawa’s contract was cheap. Now it’s just worthless.
Betsy – high on pie
December 24th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
http://www.time.com/time/speci…..32,00.html
Good for Alex!
*************
I second that!
Brett,
Hopefully Holliday will do what Beltran did and give us last dibbs for a cheaper price than what the Mets or anyone else comes up with.
Cash please go ahead and sign Damon We need him badly and he is not expensive two years $ 20 mil. Go for it.
I know this is a Yankee blog and all, but has anyone thought about how badly St. Louis will be financially crippled if they sign Holliday? If they manage to sign him, they will have over $80 million committed to 11 players on a team that will have roughly a $90 million payroll. This situation will only get worse if they are able to sign Pujols and Wainright’s salary goes up with FA years.
This is almost as bad a situation as what the Twins are going to have if they are able to resign Mauer. They will literally have a Triple A team surrounding a well-paid core of about 5 players.
Blake, I don’t dislike or like Boras – I don’t even know him. It’s fine for him to try and get more $$ for his client – that’s his job. However, at least in JD’s situation, tellling the Yankees to blow off if they don’t offer such and such amount is poor negotiating tactics. First off, it’s not actually negotiating – it’s bullying. Secondly, all it serves to do is tick off the other party, the exact opposite of what Boras should be doing.
I suspect the Yankees will have a LF before Boras crawls back to the Yankees…..I still never bought they were interested in Holliday and I never bought this idea that Holliday really wanted to play for the Yankees.
Lost-in, I see what you are saying but I don’t know what they are moving on to..all of their other needs are filled. Boras can say its Nx3 all he wants but if the market isn’t there it will come back closer to N eventually. MH isn’t going to sit the season out waiting on Nx3…
Even if the Red Sox sign Bay, the Yankees still have a better offense. I think that could motivate Cashman to upgrade LF more than he already would, but I don’t think it means he’s going after Holliday.
“Don’t you think that’s merely spin? If he makes the counterargument, it would be tantamount to a tacit admission that his clients’ salaries should shrink.”
I’m not 100% certain about this, but I do think baseball industry revenues have in fact been hurt far less than is commonly believed. This might be in aggregate such that the yanks, sox and mets are doing well and most teams aren’t – but I do think the horrendous economic circumstance of the country has been far less felt in baseball than in many other industries.
Now that’s not to say that teams in fact aren’t becoming more risk averse given uncertainty in the macroeconomy – I think they are.
So in some sense Boras might be technically correct – that there is far more money in baseball than owners purport – even with the economic downturn.
And I think what he’s trying to do with his players on an individual level is try to force the market to acknowledge that this latent cash exists.
But that’s just a very hard road to travel because not even boras with his group of clients can impact market equilibrium in that fashion.
In turn, I think his clients are seeing uneven results because of the implicit argument boras is making and due to his goals.
In a sense Boras is refusing to be pragmatic.
And he did get Ollie Perez 36M last year, so there’s that.
They do say when youv been married for awhile you begin to look alot alike.
SOS:
Do NOT let my wife hear you say that.
Pat M
December 24th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
GB, You need to lighten up on Randy I ( The Original Tin Cup ), he’s been a rather good lad as of late…..Then of course he knows Santa is on his way……He wants a new Rawlings cather’s mitt for Christmas…..The Bill Dickey model
————————————————————
Randy will get his catcher’s mitt from Santa. He’s getting a Jesse Gonder model.
RR, the Yankees are NOT caving and upping their offer to Damon; you’re going to be very disappointed if you think that’s happening.
S.o.S.
December 24th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
Brett,
Hopefully Holliday will do what Beltran did and give us last dibbs for a cheaper price than what the Mets or anyone else comes up with.
—
I’m convinced he wants to be a Yankee and also that the Yankees want mercenaries to come here for less money than their top offers from losing teams. I think the Yankees value a commitment to winning from their potential additions.
Is Holliday a winner or just another greedy mercenary?
I think that’s the question the Yankees really want to hear him answer and they have a number in mind that will unveil the truth about him.
They will slightly outbid the Cards but will not match or even approach any absurd offer that comes from the cowdung of the NL (Mets).
The Sox are waiting on Bay though while they gauge the trade market on Ellsbury and hope the Yankees settle for a quick fix in LF
Nady – not coming?
Why? Did he sign somewhere?
Cash needs to just stay patient. Someone will give him the right offer.
Phil (or anyone else), I’ve seen folks mention Kevin Russo as a possibility for UTL INF. Is he good? I know it’s pipe dream, but I prefer Jerry Hairston – he did a fine job last year and he can at least hold his own against MLB pitching. I don’t think Pena can do that (way too small a sample size this year) and Russo…….who knows?
Rich,
You are absolutely right in that it is ultimately the player’s decision and not Boras’s. But I have to think that Boras advises his clients to hold out for more money and they tend to listen (based on his track record?). It’s been a mistake more than once in the past couple of years.
As far as the economics of the game, my opinion is that the market setting clubs (Yankees, Sox, etc.) are being much smarter in the past couple years in using advanced metrics and data to find value. Therefore, they aren’t overpaying for the wrong pieces. It’s partly because of this that salaries have not been rising exponentially.
pat
December 24th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
Nady – not coming?
Why? Did he sign somewhere?
What’s with the fascination with Nady? He’s like an aging Jesse Barfield with a lighter complexion. Do we have a young Al Leiter to spare?
What’s with the fascination with Nady? He’s like an aging Jesse Barfield with a lighter complexion. Do we have a young Al Leiter to spare?
———————————————————–
LOL!
S.o.S…I know these guys from local ( Orange County ) Fund Raising Golf Tourneys…..I do remember George from watching him in Spring Traing Games back in 73….He was a SS then and kust an amazing prescence in the box….He moved thru the KC system as quickly as did Jim Rice…..I never played vs. him in the Minors, as the Royals systems were not on the east coast…..George had such great hands, like Carew, only much stronger …..Never walked much, so he had to hit his way on, but hit did ever…..I was a Minor League stiff who made it to AAA for a tad less than 3 weeks…I did play for Bobby Cox twice at 2 different levels…..
“What’s with the fascination with Nady?”
He’ll be inexpensive, will likely sign a 1 year deal, has a history of being able to play in NY, has more pop than Gardner, a stronger arm than Damon and has hit 5th effectively.
“I know this is a Yankee blog and all, but has anyone thought about how badly St. Louis will be financially crippled if they sign Holliday? If they manage to sign him, they will have over $80 million committed to 11 players on a team that will have roughly a $90 million payroll. This situation will only get worse if they are able to sign Pujols and Wainright’s salary goes up with FA years.”
I raised this point awhile ago when I first heard about their offer to Holliday. My main point was that they needed to keep some money free to give Pujols a huge raise. In theory, he can ask for Alex Rodriquez money. Clearly, STL doesn’t have it. I’m looking forward to how that quandary works out. My guess is that Pujols gives them a hometown discount. Very big of him.
Rob Neyer:
Quote:
Vazquez’s single season as a Yankee was widely seen as a failure, and it was a failure despite his 14-10 record. So I was surprised to discover that Vazquez’s only All-Star season was 2004. And yes, that happened because Vazquez actually pitched quite well before the All-Star Game: 10-5, 3.56 ERA, 3-to-1 strikeout-to-walk ratio. But a switch didn’t get flipped during the All-Star break. Vazquez pitched fairly well for another few weeks. On August 6, he ran his record to 13-6 (and still had a 4.12 ERA). What ruined his season were his last nine starts, when he went 1-4 with a 7.30 ERA. And he got blasted in his three postseason outings, too.
But whether it was an injury or mechanics or just a spot of bad luck, the point is that there’s little evidence to suggest that Vazquez struggled because he couldn’t handle pitching in New York. If that was the case, wouldn’t it have showed up before August?
Vazquez will not duplicate his 2009 performance in 2010. He was one of the three or four best pitchers in the National League, and probably won’t be one of the 10 best pitchers in the American League. But of course he doesn’t need to be. Instead he’ll probably be the best No. 4 starter in the majors, which is all the Yankees need him to be. Happy, as a Yanks fan? I would be deliriously ecstatic.
““What’s with the fascination with Nady?””
I can’t speak for anyone else, but as the head Cougar on this blog, it’s the face!!!!!
Seriously, as much as I enjoy looking at Nady, I’d pass on him. Two Tommy John surgeries? No thanks.
Pat, I believe Nady struggled tremendously after his hot start when he first came to NY. I just don’t see the appeal of this guy coming off of his 2nd TJ surgery
pat
December 24th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
“What’s with the fascination with Nady?”
He’ll be inexpensive, will likely sign a 1 year deal, has a history of being able to play in NY, has more pop than Gardner, a stronger arm than Damon and has hit 5th effectively.
Response:
On a good team, Nady is the right-handed half of an effective DH platoon. On the Pirates, he’s a cleanup hitting corner OF.
Gotta run.
Merry X-mas
Hope I don’t miss anything…
“People started identifying skill sets that are better to valuate player by. Rather then overpaying veterans, people could turn to more cost-effective younger guys and get the same production. It isn’t as if the moneyball frame of mind can’t apply to larger budget clubs as well”
The real point of MoneyBall was about identifying market inefficiencies and using hose market inefficiencies to find undervalued assets.
Right now the player that has come to be seen as the prototypic moneyball player – high obp, young, etc. in fact isn’t an inefficiency in the market any longer.
Defense at one time was a market inefficiency – an inefficiency that Billy Beane never identified. But that changed with the success of the Rays in 2008 and the adevent of statistical measures of defense. So defense isn’t really a market inefficiency.
The real market inefficiencies right now are actually older player with mediocre to poor defensive skills. Bobby Abreu was a perfect example of that last year.
There’s a real problem now however – before identifying market inefficiences could help you win i.e. when the inefficiency was a young, high OBP player. Now the market inefficiency player can make your team more financially efficient but likely will not provide enough impact on the game for you to create a truly high performing team.
“I see what you are saying but I don’t know what they are moving on to..all of their other needs are filled.”
They moved on to Vazquez. That’s what happened when they allocated those resources to pitching rather than LF.
I want Johnny back just as much as Erica, for Johnny is my favorite! I just fear that Cashman has made up his mind that he will NOT take Johnny back regardless of how low Johnny’s price is, for fear of how a substantial pay cut will affect Johnny’s play. I would think that Johnny realizes that no matter how “little” the Yanks pay him, he’d get even less from other teams. … but the bottom line is that I think Cashman is committed to NOT resigning Johnny
(
Laura,
1st, that better be one big hometown discount by Pujols.
2nd, aren’t you setting the bar kinda high by requiring both looks and full range of motion of one’s extremities? Grrrr.
I wouldn’t take Holliday’s reluctance to sign in St. Louis as a secret desire to be a Yankee. It’s more like a strong desire for the Yankees or another big market club to join the bidding and up his price. If the STL offer is sitting there indefinitely there’s no harm in waiting to see if anybody else will beat it before accepting.
The fascination with Nady is no worse than the fascination with Reed Johnson.
Pat M,
Good stuff. Thanks for the info. Are you still in the O.C.. Im unfortunately in Riverside County.
Tallyho and Merry Christmas, gotta go pick up my wife.
And as my mother, my grandmothers, my mother-in-law, and my grandmother-in-law say, “Drive safe and watch for deer and eat as much as possible”.
Cheers.
“2nd, aren’t you setting the bar kinda high by requiring both looks and full range of motion of one’s extremities? Grrrr.”
I know. The nerve of me.
CB, that may be true but I still see no rush to fill the LF spot.
Betsy,
I don’t think Hairston played 3rd well enough in relief of Alex to win the job.
“On a good team, Nady is the right-handed half of an effective DH platoon”
On a good team, Damon would be a more effective DH than LFer too but people are still clamoring for him at millions more than what Nady would cost.
He’ll be inexpensive, will likely sign a 1 year deal, has a history of being able to play in NY, has more pop than Gardner, a stronger arm than Damon and has hit 5th effectively.
—-
What history? Two months of a non-playoff season and a few games at the beginning of this season?
Barely a history.
“Randy, my Christmas present to you is that for the rest of the year, I’m going to be nice to you and not rag you about your golf game”
gb7-
my christmas gift to you is a golf tip.
in golf you have to be relaxed .
so just imagine something that really relaxes you.
like smoking your favorite cigarette.
just imagine inhaling deeply and just absorb that great feeling of relaxation.
hope my tip helps
but seriously have a good christmas
… and a healthy new year.
“that may be true but I still see no rush to fill the LF spot.”
blake,
But that’s what moving on means in this context.
A similar thing has probably happened to Jason Bay in Boston. When the money was there he said no. Now the money has been allocated and that’s just not easy or desirable to unravel.
And I don’t see the team in being in any rush to sign a LF. They’ll probably wait and wait because prices on most guys are only going to go down from here on out.
Do we really need Reed Johnson and Hoffman?
2 RH hitting OFers who can’t hit lefties? Seems kind of redundant.
S.o.S……I’m in Newport….It’s been brisk here the past few days, temps barely cracking the 60′s…..
CB, I agree, that’s what I’m saying. If Holliday is absolutely off the table then I would wait Damon out and hopefully get him to agree to a one year deal..
Phil, I recall Pena making some iffy plays at 3rd. I could be wrong – he didn’t play there that much. I read about Kevin Russon at Pinstripes Plus – he seems like an interesting player. Patrick thinks Pena is a better option because he can play SS, but it seeems like Russo is a much better stick and is solid defensively.
After LF, I’d like to see the Yanks address their bench. Right now, it’s weak….Pena, Cervelli, Hoffman(?), Gardner (?). Why not bring Hinske back?
Whenever I think of Charley Lau, I think of the movie Max Dugan Returns, with a very young Matthew Broderick.
—————————————————–
the same. When he hits the HR
“What history?”
I know it may not seem like it at times but the Mets play in NY too and combined that’s a year plus in NY.
If I had my pick of any OFer, Nady’s not it. If Cashman is going to stick to the budget constraints he’s laid out, IMO Nady could be a value purchase that gets a check in many of the criteria on the list of what they could be looking for.
12 for dinner showing up in 2.5 hours. Have a Merry everyone.
“I was a Minor League stiff who made it to AAA for a tad less than 3 weeks…I did play for Bobby Cox twice at 2 different levels…..”
yeah, but you made it to the highest level of the minor leagues at a time that the best athletes played baseball and when almost every kid in the country played baseball.
Am i the only one thats going to miss the eye candy of a wife Damon has?
———————————————
no. We have Amber (cc’s wife)
Betsy,
Pena’s a great fielder, who will adjust, Hairston was a trainwreck at 3rd.
“that may be true but I still see no rush to fill the LF spot.”
blake-
me neither.
i think the yankees could win 80 games without a left fielder- just put gardner and granderson in the gaps.
Yep, with Broderick putting his hands on his helmet and shouting “this is for you, Wittgenstein”, lol
DeRosa sucks. Has anyone looked at his OBP?
We don’t need a low OBP guy on our team.
“You move on. Unless by some great chance that the seller calls you and says okay okay, you win.. let’s do it. You’re not getting it. Nobody believe that Boras will make that call”
——————————————————–
fine by me. Teams win championships, not all-star teams with zero role players. Gardner in the #9/double-leadoff
http://www.google.com/search?q.....1I7RNWE_en
Ok Vinny. I made you back off on VF. Guess you can have ONE!
Phil, I know that Hairston is not coming back….too much $$. Pena, Russo – whomever. I like bringing in a youngster or two a year, even if they are part-time/utility players. Their youthful enthusiasm is contagious………
Also, Betsy,
They might sign Hinske back or someone else, but they can wait till the prices come down. And the bench isn’t so much weak as it is young and youth is a strength.
Yep, with Broderick putting his hands on his helmet and shouting “this is for you, Wittgenstein”
———————————————
love that moment. Cannot help but be happy for him
randy,
Charlie Lau’s book on hitting was one of the first I ever bought when I was a kid. I still have it on my book shelf.
The historical profiles of the hitters was great. I still remember his discussion of how hitters may orient their stances in very different ways but all of them get to the same “launch position.”
Too much was made of Lau’s emphasis on swinging down on the ball and not enough on the other aspects of what he was talking about.
Randy I, Thank You you for your words of accomplishment…..Do remember, I played right after MLB expanded, and many fine Black atheletes were over in Nam….I’m still proud that time, and I lived a dream for a few years…….Women were impressed though
Hairston is a singles hitter, with no power, and he hit .237 for us. His defense is also below average.
Holliday:
- Yanks or Cards top 2 choices.
- Dad pushing him to the Cards
- Matt wants this to be his final contract (it’s about the years mostly – and of course $$)
- Was* expecting the deal to be done before xmas
Somethings come up, and I do not know what. Another team? Maybe.
“I know this is a Yankee blog and all, but has anyone thought about how badly St. Louis will be financially crippled if they sign Holliday?”
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Joe: don’t know how they do it, without letting Pujols walk. Normally businesses don’t cut their profit margins. Not willingly
Not much has changed as you can see.. but that’s all I got and trust me, I pressed and pressed.
now I am off to go eat some food.
Lost,
Thought his dad was previously pushing him to the Yankees?
Boston?
S.o.S……I’m in Newport….It’s been brisk here the past few days, temps barely cracking the 60’s…..
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Pat M,
You cant be complaining about the weather to someone that just moved to Hemet. Where it touches 113 degrees at times. BTW, my family and I favorite beach to go to is Newport. Good to be you. Have a Merry Christmas and to all others here. Be safe fellas.
Holliday:
- Yanks or Cards top 2 choices.
- Dad pushing him to the Cards
- Matt wants this to be his final contract (it’s about the years mostly – and of course $$)
- Was* expecting the deal to be done before xmas
——————————————————-
kewl. Holliday to the Cards is better for baseball. And NYY does not need him
thank you for keeping us updated Lost. merry Christmas to you
Randy I,
Yea they probably could. I just think that there are several options left out there and they all are about the same quality. Why “move on” from the Holliday table unless you aren’t doing it even at 5/85.. Maybe that is the case, maybe they have just said he’s off the table all together but I just find it hard to believe that they would pass up a deal like that for a player of Hollidays caliber. Maybe I’m completely wrong.. Wouldn’t be the first time.. I think they could wait right up until Holliday signs and still have mostly the same options they have now…
Bargains happen after Christmas.
DaSaint007:
“Thought his dad was previously pushing him to the Yankees?”
That’s what I got originally, but I’ll trust this source more.
Why would his father the Yankee fan be pushing him to the Cards if not for negotiating leverabe with the Yanks?
Forget Hollyday – he isin’t coming here.
We need a real LF’er. Gardner stinks – period. So does Hoffman.
“Ok Vinny. I made you back off on VF. Guess you can have ONE!”
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daSaint: thank you. Next step, talk to cc
Lost-
thanks again for your latest update.
I must admit it has me a little puzzled.
His Father is a huge Yankee fan and he is pushing to the Cards ?
Job security ?
What job security ?
At least 3 of those years are options.
Doesn’t matt think the Yanks might give him some option years with low buyouts ?
I would think they might.
Hey, I guess if he wants to be a Card over the issue of what he perceives as long term security so be it.
I hope Boras would run it by the Yanks one last time.
Merry Xmas.
Lost-in,
Thanks for all the uodates! Merry Christmas to ya.
Blake-
Does lost’s info. make sense to you ?
I guess Hollidays father is affraid that the Yankees offer isnt enough to feed his family. Cant argue with that.
S.o.S.-
Must have one helluva large family.
The Cards will not be competing once they look to sign Pujols to his extension. That will be 40% of their payroll spent on 2 players, maybe even more. That doesn’t translate to job security, that looks more like purgatory.
I have multiple sources, and they do at times conflict.
However, I would take what I stated above to the bank.
IMHO, I don’t think MH to the Cards is a lock. I couldn’t get a good read. People this close are very cautious as to what they say — and for good reason, I’m posting it on a blog
— I just don’t see Matt going to NY unless Boras sells Brian and they both walk away happy.
Things can change fast as we all know.
MTU, it does mostly..I am having a hard time determining if the Yankees are still involved or not. If Hollidays top two choices are the Yankees and Cards wouldn’t that leave just one if the Yankees have really moved on.. if there’s not another team other than the cards then you would think he would have signed already. Who knows..
My take on this is that Holliday wants something done during the Holidays. We’re probably at the endgame with Holliday, who is tired of waiting for Bay to sign somewhere and just wants to get settled. What they have is the Cards offer, which the Yanks could beat by a buck without further incentives. Now we have the Cards and his father’s sudden desire to have his son play for his not favorite team. Can that move the Yanks’ offer? We’ll see.
Must have one helluva large family
———————————–
latrell spree. holla
I’ve never felt that Holliday wanted to be a Yankee. Boras’ problem is he compares his value to Tex, and that contract just ain’t happening again.
Holliday should just take the St. Louis offer, and stay paired up with Puljos in a very baseball friendly, fan friendly pressureless atmosphere. Hope St. Louis can then afford to agree to Puljos’ contract demands as it will be for more than $23MM/year.
That’s it for me folks.
Happy Holidays to all, and to all a good night!
Abda-
I wont say what I’m thinking about this if this is true.
It’s his life isn’t it.
“The Cards will not be competing once they look to sign Pujols to his extension. That will be 40% of their payroll spent on 2 players, maybe even more. That doesn’t translate to job security, that looks more like purgatory”
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in fairness, if dollars don’t change, maybe ST Louis can get by??? 5/85 is a relative bargain
Lost-in,
So you’re saying there’s a chance…(said in Lyoid Christmas voice)
Must have one helluva large family
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latrell spree. holla
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vinny,
You got my drift.
“Holliday should just take the St. Louis offer, and stay paired up with Puljos in a very baseball friendly, fan friendly pressureless atmosphere”
———————————————–
yup. Would do the same
Phil:
“My take on this is that Holliday wants something done during the Holidays. We’re probably at the endgame with Holliday, who is tired of waiting for Bay to sign somewhere and just wants to get settled.”
WANTED, would be the key word.. he’s letting Boras do his job and focusing on his family visiting tomorrow.
I’m really leaving this time.. maybe check-in tonight.
I still remember his discussion of how hitters may orient their stances in very different ways but all of them get to the same “launch position.”
cb-
when you get the feel of getting to the launch position hitting gets much easier.
in golf it’s the same thing.
get to that position however you want , but get to it.
i really have to get that book back out.
Holliday ain’t signing anywhere until Bay does.
An if Bay signs with Boston… Boras’ eyes light up.
On YES right now – 1996 Yankees home opener vs KC
KC’s center fielder is Johnny Damon
Lost-
The Cards are on record with a long term offer of approx 8 years if you count the 3 option years.
I do not know the nature of the 3 additonal options.
If they are low buyout then big deal.
Would that really allow MH to not have to sign another contract ?
Furthermore, if that were correct, couldn’t the Yanks offer something similar.
options with very low buyouts.
Like I said. If true I don’t get it.
The Cards are a nice franchise but IMO they aint the Yanks.
Good luck Matt if that is the way you decide to go.
But I guess you really didn’t want to be a Yank afterall ????
“Don’t forget, the Yankees won WS with Chad Curtis/Shane Spencer types in LF”
I understand the sentiment, and I know we do not need all stars at every position, but the days of Chad Curtis and Shane Spencer came when our AL East opponent Red Sox had the likes of Valentin, Luis Alicea, and many other bums.
Lost,
He won’t feel right without a team tomorrow, and if he isn’t already, he’s gonna put pressure on Boras to get it done, and his first choice is clearly not the Cards cause they could have gotten that done already. This “his father wants him to go to the Cards” nonsense is their leverage in absence of any offer that blows the Cards’ away. It’s his “CC wants to play in California” card. If his father wanted him to play for the Cards and he valued his father’s desires, he would still already be a Card. He wants to be something else. We’ll see what happens.
“I understand the sentiment, and I know we do not need all stars at every position, but the days of Chad Curtis and Shane Spencer came when our AL East opponent Red Sox had the likes of Valentin, Luis Alicea, and many other bums”
——————————————————
nonetheless. Don’t need an all-star at every place in the batting order. Check any recent world series champion. Or any world series champion, for that matter. This is folly
Boston won the WS with Lugo at SS and Varitek at C.
You don’t need stars at every position if you have grity, gutty roll players….
Phil-
You might be right in your interpretation, and I sincerely hope you are.
It has been reported over and again that MH’s dad was a huge
Yankee supporter.
Does not make sense to me because the Yankees can, and probably did match anything the Cards offered except for the options.
What are options worth if they are low buyout for instance.
I dont see the magnetism in that but maybe MH does.
I’ve been watching Prime 9…..Man, The Babe had the quickest hands…His bat just blurred through the zome……Mantle from the left side had the same fast bat speed, but Babe looked so in control……Great swing Babe
Boston’s #9 hitter – Casey Kotchman, is a young Nick Johnson and 10x better than Gardner.
I’m sure there are a ton of teams with a better 9 hitter than us.
Gardner does not cut it.
Go Yanks
December 24th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
On YES right now – 1996 Yankees home opener vs KC
KC’s center fielder is Johnny Damon
************
I DVRed it for that reason. Feels kind of full circle to me
Just wanted to say Merry Christmas to those LoHudders taking off to spend the night with their families.
Hope you have a wonderful and safe holiday and get everything on your wishlists!!!!!!
vinny
Why is that folly? I acknowledged a team does not need 9 position all stars to win.
I will ask this question, though. If we could get an All Star at every position, and give us the maxiumum chance to win, and Holliday can be gotten at a reasonable price, then why is it good for baseball if Holl. goes to the Cards.
Baseball was and is most successful when the Yankees win. The highest ratings of World Series come when the Yankees are in it.
Joe Mauer, who will probably be resigned anyway, is the type of player that a team like the Red Sox or Yankees breaks the bank for, regardless of budget.
So, getting Holliday at a reasonable price this year, will have no effect on potentially getting Mauer next year.
If the Yankees have even a 1 percent shot at Mauer, they will do whatever they can to get him, regardless of budget.
“Boston’s #9 hitter – Casey Kotchman, is a young Nick Johnson and 10x better than Gardner.
I’m sure there are a ton of teams with a better 9 hitter than us”
———————————————————-
and this matters because ?????
NYY has a much better lineup. Next
new thread
Pat M, and that bat speed from the babe is swinging the equivalent of a telephone pole. Image the bat speed if he were swinging a bat from today…
CR9:
Matt Holliday is a fine player. I wanted Holliday last off-season. Either via trade or wait for him to be a FA. We signed TEX instead. The lineup is a monster. Unless there is a major injury, he is not needed