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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Holiday inventory

Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Dec 25, 2009 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Merry Christmas, everyone. Hope Santa visited all of you expecting him and that the rest of your day is restful and relaxing.

Since the Yankees still have one noticeable item left on their shopping list, I thought it might make sense to get a complete list of available outfielders. Fortunately, there’s one right here – scroll down a little – and it’s interesting to peruse the names.

Three that stick out for me? Xavier Nady, Reed Johnson and Jonny Gomes. Nady, obviously, you know about and the question with him is going to be his health. Two major surgeries is a lot for guy who isn’t a pitcher, but there’s no doubt that – when healthy – Nady can play.

Johnson doesn’t have great numbers but could be effective in a platoon (check out his splits) while Gomes has had a very up-and-down career but put together a pretty solid season last year with the Reds. He’s got some pop, has a fiery spirit and always struck me as a pretty courageous kid. His defense isn’t great, but any of the less-expensive guys will come with some warts. It’s just a matter of what the Yankees are willing to accept.

Could the Yankees end up with Matt Holliday? Sure. They could. They could also make a trade. But at this point it seems like the most likely scenario is for them to go with a lower-profile option in left, which is why there’s nothing wrong with mining this list for someone who might just turn out to be a real bargain.

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302 Responses to “Holiday inventory”

  1. Sean December 25th, 2009 at 12:46 pm

    Whatever.

  2. JP December 25th, 2009 at 12:48 pm

    I’m totally cool with the idea of a bargain LF (not named Gardner), and if LF is the reason the team isn’t in 1st in July, get something done at the deadline.

  3. dee December 25th, 2009 at 12:49 pm

    What about Cody Ross? What would it take to get him? I’ve heard his name thrown around a couple of times.

  4. blake December 25th, 2009 at 12:52 pm

    Sam, many of the guys on that list I don’t see as significant upgrades over gardner. I think if Holliday isn’t an option and they can’t get Damon to accept a one year deal then they should just let Gritty play and really save the “precious” payroll.. Just my opinion but I think all of the other options are either mediocre or injury risks.

  5. Betsy - high on pie December 25th, 2009 at 12:52 pm

    I’m very curious to see what Cash has up his sleeve this time……

  6. Betsy - high on pie December 25th, 2009 at 1:00 pm

    Merry Christmas Sam……..did you say you were going to see Sherlock Holmes today?

  7. Sam Borden December 25th, 2009 at 1:02 pm

    Betsy: I’m hoping to see that later on, yes. Either that or “Up in the Air.” Wife and I watched “Duplicity” last night on demand and were reasonably entertained. A little twist-y for my taste, but not bad. 2 1/2 stars.

  8. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 25th, 2009 at 1:03 pm

    Fran (the original) and OPPC member
    December 25th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
    Betsy,

    I am not that far from Hicksville. I’ll have to get the name from you and try it one day. Not today though because I don’t feel like dealing with traffic.

    ******

    Funny, I always feel like Christmas Day is one of the lighter traffic days

  9. Sam Borden December 25th, 2009 at 1:03 pm

    Blake: That’s a fair opinion. Going with Gardy could work, too. My sense from talking with the Yankees, though, is that they are likely to add someone else. Is it possible Gardner is the regular? Yes. But that isn’t the vibe I’ve gotten recently.

  10. Sam Borden December 25th, 2009 at 1:04 pm

    Heading into town for some Chinese food, guys. Back later on.

  11. Siciliano December 25th, 2009 at 1:04 pm

    Sam > Steve Goldman

    Goldman HATED Nady.

  12. Fran (the original) and OPPC member December 25th, 2009 at 1:06 pm

    Erica,

    I always find traffic on the LIE. And people are going visiting. It’s not like rush hour, but still traffic.

  13. Joe Vogel December 25th, 2009 at 1:07 pm

    Joe Vogel
    December 25th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
    86w183
    December 25th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
    NJ Steve —

    Granderson was awful against lefties last year, but his OPS against LH pitching in 2008 was a more than acceptable .739. That’s the Granderson I’m looking for in 2010.

    Gardner has never given me any indication that he’s an every day player and his career OPS against both lefties and righties is sub .700.
    ————————————–

    In a CAREER of 674 games, Granderson’s OPS against LHP is .614. As a Yankee fan, I may wish him to be able to hit LHP’s but that don’t make it true. Conversely, Gardner may not ever effectively hit LHP’s (or RHP’s for that matter), but the jury is still out. As opposed to Granderson who has just under 2900 career PA’s, Gardner has just 425 PA’s, the equivilant of 2/3 of ONE season. If player determinations were made on most players on such a small sample size, Don Mattingly would still be beating the bushes along with Al Kaline, Greg Maddux, and Tom Glavine. Not everybody starts their career like Dwight Gooden and Albert Pujols.

    I know this about Gardner: he has tremendous speed, he’s a grinder who doesn’t take plays off, and he has had robust success throughout the minor league professional ranks. He is the MLB version of Tim Dwight or Wes Welker. This is a critical season in his career although there remains a strong possibility that he will not be given a real shot at an everyday job.

  14. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 25th, 2009 at 1:08 pm

    Fran (the original) and OPPC member
    December 25th, 2009 at 1:06 pm
    Erica,

    I always find traffic on the LIE. And people are going visiting. It’s not like rush hour, but still traffic.

    *******

    Last night around 6:30, I wound up having to make a trip out to exit 62 on the LIE to pick up something. Its quite a journey when you are coming from an area near JFK. I actually flew there and back. I got home again in exactly 55 minutes

  15. Fran (the original) and OPPC member December 25th, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    Erica,

    Wow. I am impressed. That has to be some sort of record for the LIE. Exit 62 is pretty far out plus then I guess you have to head toward the South Shore.

  16. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 25th, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    I am heading out soon, but before I do- I am just throwing this question out there.

    Why on earth do people wish for a “White Christmas”?

    If it snowed on Christmas, everyone would be stuck inside and no one could go see their families and get presents. That would be terrible.

    And if snow remains from last week, is it considered a “White Christmas” (even though its now gray)? Or does it need to be freshly falling snow???

    Discuss amongst yourselves :-)

  17. Betsy - high on pie December 25th, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    Fran, it’s called New Chilli & Curry. I will post a mini-review tonight if you’d like, lol.

  18. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 25th, 2009 at 1:13 pm

    Fran (the original) and OPPC member
    December 25th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
    Erica,

    Wow. I am impressed. That has to be some sort of record for the LIE. Exit 62 is pretty far out plus then I guess you have to head toward the South Shore.
    ********

    Yes, I am very south shore. I am 5 minutes from water. My other problem is that it takes me about 15-20 minutes just to get to a highway. I usually pick up Peninsula Blvd at Exit 19 on the SSP.

  19. Abdababdaserser December 25th, 2009 at 1:13 pm

    I don’t see Gomes at all for the Yankees. He is a two bit player who never sticks with a team for a reason. He isn’t much as a player.

    I’d rather see Shelly Duncan be signed than Gomes. And Shelly isn’t good.

  20. NJ Steve December 25th, 2009 at 1:14 pm

    Joe Vogel, I agree with you!

    and to respond to the post about hoping Granderson can duplicate his best year against lefties…

    First of all .739 is not really acceptable unless you field like Gardner or better, but why would you take his best year against lefties out of the last 3 years and say that is how you would expect him to hit? Granderson’s last 3 year total OPS against lefties is .570. How much better is really a reasonable number to look at? If you say .700 that is a huge stretch, but let’s even say that. he is still not someone who should be playing with a .700 OPS against lefties. I mean everyone is saying Gardner can’t hit and in 248 AB’s his combined OPS was .724 and it was better when he got to play more regularly. One other note is that the book on Gardner was it took him a little while to adjust at each level because of his different type of swing, but once he did he was very productive. He made adjustments last year that helped a lot and when you take his SB’s into account his OPS improves to about .790 BEFORE taking his defense into account.

    If the Yankees think they can make Granderson a .700 hitter against lefties, that is a stretch, but I hope they can. Either way, if they think he should be starting against lefties over Gardner, I think they are simply wrong. I also think not enough people on this board realize how bad Granderson is against lefties.

    For perspective, everyone knew Molina couldn’t hit well at all. For his 3 years with the Yankees his OPS was .585…now compare that to Granderson against lefties

  21. Betsy - high on pie December 25th, 2009 at 1:15 pm

    Joe, am I reading your post wrong or are you comparing Granderson to Gardner? Granderson is a terrific player…..Gardner? Well…..he’s not nor do I expect him to be. I agree with Sam – I do not think he’s our LF this year. I expect him to be the 4th OF/pinch runner.

  22. Fran (the original) and OPPC member December 25th, 2009 at 1:16 pm

    Betsy,
    Thanks for the info. A mini-review would be great :)

  23. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 25th, 2009 at 1:16 pm

    Btw- I am leaving now.

    Merry Christmas to those celebrating today. And if movies/chinese food are your thing today- I hope your fortune cookies bring you only the best! :-)

  24. NYY626 December 25th, 2009 at 1:17 pm

    Erica – always OPPC – Bring Johnny Back!!! December 25th, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    I am heading out soon, but before I do- I am just throwing this question out there.

    Why on earth do people wish for a “White Christmas”?
    ________________________________________________________________
    LOL I’ve always wondered the same thing. I can offer no other explanation other than “it looks pretty”

  25. NJ Steve December 25th, 2009 at 1:17 pm

    Also, Joe, the quote that you put there was not mine. I am a believer that teh Yanks would be best to have Gardner play most every day in CF and Platoon Granderson in LF which would still get him 70% of the starts (a few against lefties).

    Gardner is far more valuable than people think when you take his SB’s and add that to the amount of plays he saves in CF. If his OPS stays at last years OPS he would be an EXCELLENT fielding CF’r with an adjusted for SB’s OPS of .780 or so. It was absurd that Melky was playing over him.

  26. Fran (the original) and OPPC member December 25th, 2009 at 1:18 pm

    Erica,

    Know exactly where you are talking about and as I said that is impressive timing.

    I heard on a TV weathercast that if there is at least 1 inch of snow on the ground it qualifies as a white Christmas. So today officially qualifies even if the snow is not so white anymore!

  27. rodg12 December 25th, 2009 at 1:21 pm

    Just wanted to stop by the blog quick and wish everyone here a Merry Christmas!!

  28. NJ Steve December 25th, 2009 at 1:21 pm

    Betsy, the point Joe and I are making is that Granderson is an elite talent against righties as a CF’r. He is also someone who should not play against lefties as his OPS is awful. I am of the belief that Gardner is a better defender than Granderson and Gardy should play CF. I do not think Gardner is better than Granderson against righties, it isn’t even close and considering 2/3 of the games are against right handed pitchers, it makes Granderson even more valuable. However, I don’t know how anyone can say Granderson is a better option than Gardy against lefties?

  29. trisha - OPPC forever - (new lucky picture from last day at the old Stadium) BRING ON THE GHOSTS! December 25th, 2009 at 1:22 pm

    (repost)

    “Trisha, it’s Christmas Day. Perhaps we all should refrain from calling Dustin Pedroia names.”

    GB, one of your greatest traits is the ability to be funny, no matter the circumstances. I am so hoping that you are well on the road to recovery. I am so hoping it.

    Pat M – saw some NY posts last night and that you lived in Mt. Vernon. My mom grew up in Tuckahoe.

    ********************

    Well no matter what else we say today, one thing we will NOT be saying today is: HAPPY HOLLIDAY!!!!

    :lol:

    By the way, Kwanzaa begins tomorrow. If anyone is interested in how Kwanzaa got started, what it represents, etc., here is a link I found!

    http://www.history.com/content/kwanzaa

    *************

    Quite by accident last night (very late last night) I came upon the Mormon Tabernacle’s 2009 Christmas Concert. Thankfully I recorded it because I was sure I would fall asleep. A shout out goes to Yogins, a Yankee fan who in 1998 or so told me I should invest in TIVO. It took me until this year to have a DVR installed. What an idiot I was to wait this long!!!

    Anyway, for anyone who may have seen the concert, it is pretty much a bromide for anyone who wants to feel imbued with the real meaning of the Christmas season but who has lost it in the commercial hustle and bustle (guilty as charged.) I am now getting ready to go to the family Christmas dinner and have the concert on in the background. What absolutely beautiful music that group makes. I’m sure it will be repeated. It’s on the PBS channel.

    Great day all. Love to Betsy and Fran for the wonderful Christmas wishes. Definitely my girls!!!

    XOX

    Wonderful day everyone, whether it is with Chinese or roast beef!!!

  30. Fran (the original) and OPPC member December 25th, 2009 at 1:25 pm

    Trisha,

    Have a great day with the family. Talk to you later.

  31. Ed - campaigning for Josh Willingham (it worked for Gaudin) December 25th, 2009 at 1:26 pm

    Just wanted to stop by and say Merry Christmas. Hope you all got what you wanted this year. :)

  32. trisha - OPPC forever - (new lucky picture from last day at the old Stadium) BRING ON THE GHOSTS! December 25th, 2009 at 1:26 pm

    Erica, my sister mentioned that there was some big snowstorm hitting the midwest (or something) and I said I was jealous. She said, “Why, then nobody would be able to travel and get to see each other.” Point well taken. I am elated that we have a white Christmas probably because of all of the images that I equate with Christmas. If it started to snow and we had a dusting, that would be fine also. But the storm we had over the weekend provided quite a bit. I had a little Christmas wish that the sun would go in, only because I equate Christmas with a grey sky!

    Well I must have been a good little girl because Santa must have heard me. There is snow on the ground and the sun has now gone in.

    :)

    My wishes are usually humble, ha ha.

    Sam, you are a sweetheart among sweethearts. I am so thankful for you!

  33. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 25th, 2009 at 1:26 pm

    “Vinny B and 86w183, I don’t think you realize how bad Granderson is against lefties”
    ———————————————

    you’re leaving out Granderson will be playing in a left-friendly home stadium for the first time in his career, will have Kevin Long as a hitting coach, is a model person and by all accounts a very hard worker, and he will be in best lineup in baseball with protection from all sides. Lot of variables. I will take the variables

  34. Betsy - high on pie December 25th, 2009 at 1:27 pm

    Hugs, Trish and Merry Christmas!

  35. Joe Vogel December 25th, 2009 at 1:27 pm

    NJ Steve
    December 25th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
    Also, Joe, the quote that you put there was not mine. I am a believer that teh Yanks would be best to have Gardner play most every day in CF and Platoon Granderson in LF which would still get him 70% of the starts (a few against lefties).

    Gardner is far more valuable than people think when you take his SB’s and add that to the amount of plays he saves in CF. If his OPS stays at last years OPS he would be an EXCELLENT fielding CF’r with an adjusted for SB’s OPS of .780 or so. It was absurd that Melky was playing over him.
    ————————————

    I agree nearly completely, especially if Gardner is placed in CF (where his exceptional defense is much more of an asset). He can’t be any empty bat and continue to play, but the Yankees can carry him for a half season trial there considering their surrounding offense if they see fit.

  36. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 25th, 2009 at 1:28 pm

    “Santa didn’t bring me Matt Holliday….I knew I should have been better this year…”
    —————————————————

    blake: chin up. Santa did bring us Granderson, Pettitte, Vazquez, and Nick Johnson

    it not like you didn’t get yo bb-gun

    merry Christmas blake :)

  37. George G Smith Jr December 25th, 2009 at 1:30 pm

    When analyzing any move that Cashman is doing, I can’t help but look out a year (The CC and Tex moves as the impetus).

    Next year – Free Agent Left Fielder – Carl Crawford. I think he’d fair very well with the Yankees. Just a thought that maybe Cash isn’t looking to go after big names is because he has his sights set on next year??

  38. Joe Vogel December 25th, 2009 at 1:30 pm

    vinny-b (NJ and Granderson – thank you Cashman!)
    December 25th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
    “Vinny B and 86w183, I don’t think you realize how bad Granderson is against lefties”
    ———————————————

    you’re leaving out Granderson will be playing in a left-friendly home stadium for the first time in his career, will have Kevin Long as a hitting coach, is a model person and by all accounts a very hard worker, and he will be in best lineup in baseball with protection from all sides. Lot of variables. I will take the variables
    ——————————

    A change in ballpark or hitting coach is not going to ameliorate his inability to hit a LHer’s breaking ball. Remember, he has played at minimum at least 1/4-1/3 of his career and has clearly not been able to hit LHP.

  39. pete December 25th, 2009 at 1:30 pm

    I’m still perplexed by the Jett Hoffner hate. Those two would combine to give you two wins worth of production on defense alone – a four win swing from Damon. If they’re anything better than -1 WAR (which they almost certainly will be, considering the fact that they’re both above (if only slightly) replacement level hitters, and terrific defenders – I’m projecting a combined WAR of about 2.5 for the duo – .5 wins less than Damon), then LF will be an UPGRADE from last year. Why waste money on a player who may only match that production, when there is a good chance that the team that won 103 games last year, has wRC+s of 120 or better from 1-8 in the lineup, will have a near league-average hitter who has a UZR pushing +20 bat 9th?

    I know that Gardner’s lack of power suggests that he could be overwhelmed by major league pitching, but for christ’s sake let’s give the guy a shot. If you platoon him with Hoffman (who, conveniently, is also a superb defender), and apply the Girardian methods of extraction of production that worked so well with the bullpen the last two years, along with Gardbrera last year, you could probably pull out a speed and baserunning adjusted wOBA+ of over 100. You won’t get much more than that from any of the guys on that list, and none of them even approach the defensive efficiency of Gardner/Hoffman.

    It is scary to think that this team won 103 games last year, then improved drastically in CF, is likely to retain the same production from DH and LF, and significantly improved both its starting pitching and its overall outfield defense. Barring the inevitable serious injury to someone important, this team could win 115+ games next year. Which means that there’s a very good chance they win over 95 even with a serious injury. Wow.

  40. 86w183 December 25th, 2009 at 1:30 pm

    NJ Steve —

    Now you’re just being phony. You want to ignore Granderson’s best OPS (.739) against LH pitching in 2008 but view Gardner’s OPS from last year (.724) as a standard.

    Never mind that Gardner’s best minor league OPS in five years (8.37) is barely better than Granderson’s Major League Career OPS (.828).

    I’ll give you credit for this, you are unique. You are the only person on earth who considers Brett Gardner a superior baseball player to Curtis Granderson. Well, maybe you and Joe Vogel.

    Congratulations.

  41. Fran (the original) and OPPC member December 25th, 2009 at 1:31 pm

    it not like you didn’t get yo bb-gun
    *************************
    vinny-b,

    You must have been watching “A Christmas Story” on TBS.

  42. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 25th, 2009 at 1:32 pm

    “no it’s not…..Hicksville is a very intersting area. There is a large Indian community and, as such, there are a lot of Indian restaurants. This is actually not the only Indian/Chinese type restaurant in the area. I tried the other one awhile ago and loved it. I haven’t been back because the parking is a pain”
    —————————————————

    betsy: my fave type of food is Indian (by far). We have a Indian restaraunt upstate which is on the level of the indian restarants in Nairobi Kenya and better then any one i’ve been to in Little India/manhat. If you ever in Poughkeepsie the name of it is Kabob Place. It is authenitic Indian/Pakistan food

  43. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2009 at 1:32 pm

    trisha – OPPC forever – (new lucky picture from last day at the old Stadium) BRING ON THE GHOSTS!
    December 25th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
    (repost)

    “Trisha, it’s Christmas Day. Perhaps we all should refrain from calling Dustin Pedroia names.”

    GB, one of your greatest traits is the ability to be funny, no matter the circumstances. I am so hoping that you are well on the road to recovery. I am so hoping it.

    ————————————————————

    Thank you for the kind words and thoughts, Trisha. Hope that you and your family have a great Christmas and new Year’s holiday, also.

    I just couldn’t pass a cheap “little” laugh at Pedroia’s expense.

  44. Betsy - high on pie December 25th, 2009 at 1:34 pm

    Is this April Fool’s?

    Kevin Long changed Alex’ stance and helped him enormously. Long is considered one of the best hitting coaches in teh game……players love him. I will bet anything that Granderson improves under his tutelage…………just improvement would be nice; he doesn’t have to become a masher. There is nothing Gardner does that is better than Granderson.

  45. Joe Vogel December 25th, 2009 at 1:39 pm

    Betsy – high on pie
    December 25th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
    Joe, am I reading your post wrong or are you comparing Granderson to Gardner? Granderson is a terrific player…..Gardner? Well…..he’s not nor do I expect him to be. I agree with Sam – I do not think he’s our LF this year. I expect him to be the 4th OF/pinch runner.
    ——————————
    I’m not comparing the two directly in the sense that they are competing against each other. Rather, I’m merely stating that Granderson’s career tendencies and abilities have essentially been demonstrated over time–he’s a known commodity (Terrific against RHP, abysmal against LHP). He has value, but primarily as a 2/3 time player.

    Gardner on the other hand is not a fully known commodity. His exposure to and experience with big league pitching is still rather brief. His athletic skills are obvious but lesss is known regarding what kind of results they will translate into at the big league level. I guess the question is: Will the Yankees have the capacity and patience to explore what level of results that Gardner is capable of?
    If they choose not to, then yes, you will be correct in that he will be no more than a 4th OF and PR for them. This would likely only last for a season or two at which point it is very possible that he will be thrown into some deal with another club where he may get a starting opportunity (more likely with a 2nd division club with less pressure for immediate tangible results). Anyway you slice it, I’m hoping that they give him any extended chance as the potential upside could be rather Brett Butler-ish with a better arm, more speed, a bit more power, similar BB rate, but a slightly worse hitter (and nowhere near the bunter–but who could compare to Butler).

  46. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2009 at 1:39 pm

    pete
    December 25th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
    I’m still perplexed by the Jett Hoffner hate. Those two would combine to give you two wins worth of production on defense alone –

    ————————————————————

    You’re proclaiming how good a player is and, not only have you never seen him, but, don’t even know his name? Perfect.

  47. Rose December 25th, 2009 at 1:39 pm

    “It was absurd that Melky was playing over him.”

    Melky hit .274 13hr 68rbi. Played a good center field, strong throwing arm. Pretty good for a 4th outfielder. And absurd he was playing over Gardner? Not.

  48. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 25th, 2009 at 1:39 pm

    Fran: yup :) like tradition

  49. 86w183 December 25th, 2009 at 1:41 pm

    Well I’d like to see Long convince Gardner to quit popping the ball up, learn to slash-n-dash and develop some bunting skills. No one with that kind of speed should have an OBP down at .325.

    Still if the Yanks open the season with Gardy/Hoffman in LF I don’t mind. If they play Gardy every day and platoon Granderson I would have HUGE problems.

    Fortunately the only two people on the planet that would consider such a move are posting on this site, not making decisions in pinstripes.

  50. Betsy - high on pie December 25th, 2009 at 1:42 pm

    Vinnie, I love naan bread and mango lassis, yum. Dosas, yum. I’m getting so hungry now, lol.

  51. austinmac December 25th, 2009 at 1:43 pm

    Happy holidays Sam. I live in a house that had Hannukah celebrations and now a Christmas celebration. It is very nice to learn and share for a guy who grew up in places where Judaism was a rarety. It is also nice to have a pretty and terrific Jewish wife and great step-kids.

    I too want to join in and thank you, Chad and Josh for making this site my very favorite. My non-baseball wife even is familiar with you guys and your site. It makes my day better, and I look forward to continued visits. Presumably, you all can tell where we are located, but there are many of us in the hinterlands that visit regularly for your advertisers. They need to think nationally.

  52. Betsy - high on pie December 25th, 2009 at 1:45 pm

    How serious is baseball in considering an international draft? To me, it’s a bad idea conjured up by cheap, small market owners who, knowing they can’t get a salary cap, want to punish big market teams via another route.

  53. MTU December 25th, 2009 at 1:45 pm

    Abda-

    100% agree on Gomes.

    Don’t ever want to see him don the PS.

    A thug- not Yankee material.

    And besides he aint even that good.

  54. Joe Vogel December 25th, 2009 at 1:46 pm

    86w183
    December 25th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
    NJ Steve —

    Now you’re just being phony. You want to ignore Granderson’s best OPS (.739) against LH pitching in 2008 but view Gardner’s OPS from last year (.724) as a standard.

    Never mind that Gardner’s best minor league OPS in five years (8.37) is barely better than Granderson’s Major League Career OPS (.828).

    I’ll give you credit for this, you are unique. You are the only person on earth who considers Brett Gardner a superior baseball player to Curtis Granderson. Well, maybe you and Joe Vogel.

    Congratulations.
    ——————————-
    86sw113:

    This is NOT a direct comparison of Gardner vs. Granderson. This is simply stating that Granderson has proven over time that he is incapable of being a productive player against LHP (Can you remove a zebra’s stripes?). He is by far most valuable as a platoon player (and a very valuable one at that).

    As for Kevin Long, I think we’re overstating the ability of a hitting coach a bit.

    Again, regarding Gardner, I’m simply stating that the jury is still out on what his major league production will look like. I doubt very much that he will hit RHP’s as effectively as Granderson (likely nowhere near), but he MAY hit LHP’s effectively enough to not be a platoon player. In sum, this is NOT a direct comparison of who’s a better player. It is more about determining what is the optimum role for each.

  55. Rose December 25th, 2009 at 1:49 pm

    With speed being his biggest asset, it is hard to fathom that Gardner is not a proficient bunter.

  56. Jeff December 25th, 2009 at 1:51 pm

    Why isn’t this team all over MARLON BYRD??? Goodness – Good splits, great defense. Give him two years.

  57. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2009 at 1:54 pm

    It will be nearly impossible to regulate a world wide draft, especially when some of that talent isn’t going to be allowed to be drafted or play in the USA by an agreement between two leagues won’t allow a player to play in the USA without bribery. The Japanese leagues aren’t bound by the same agreement with foreign players going over there. Other countries like Korea, Germany and Isral require their men to give 2-3 years for military service.

  58. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2009 at 1:54 pm

    and ***Israel*** require

  59. Joe from Long Island December 25th, 2009 at 1:59 pm

    Company coming over, shortly – just wanted to say MERRY CHRISTMAS, everybody.

    And, GB 7 – it’s another day, nicotine free. Stay strong.

  60. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2009 at 1:59 pm

    MTU
    December 25th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
    Abda-

    100% agree on Gomes.

    Don’t ever want to see him don the PS.

    A thug- not Yankee material.

    And besides he aint even that good.

    ————————————————————

    Thug? He didn’t do anything differently than what Duncan did…protect/retaliate for a teammate. Duncan laid a dirty slide into Iwamura, who had absolutely nothing to do with Cervelli getting hit at the plate.

  61. Yankee in ND December 25th, 2009 at 2:01 pm

    Stay away from Byrd. Career year last year and I am not a fan of his OBP…last year was only .329.

  62. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2009 at 2:03 pm

    Joe from Long Island
    December 25th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
    Company coming over, shortly – just wanted to say MERRY CHRISTMAS, everybody.

    And, GB 7 – it’s another day, nicotine free. Stay strong.

    ————————————————————

    Gee, thanks, Joe. I was doing well until you mentioned that. I haven’t even thought about a cigarette for 15 minutes.

    Seriously, I appreciate your words of encouragement, Joe. Happy Holidays to you and your family.

  63. Rich in NJ December 25th, 2009 at 2:03 pm

    I think a trade for a young LH reliever who doesn’t make much money isn’t out of the question.

  64. CR9 December 25th, 2009 at 2:04 pm

    Gomes may be a thug, and after what he did that spring training, I probably would not want him, but he cannot be a bigger thug than Raul Mondesi. And we allowed him to wear the PS.

    Also, if I am not mistaken, I think he had heart surgery of some kind several years ago. He cannot be that bad of a guy.

    That said, I do not want him.

  65. hobbie December 25th, 2009 at 2:04 pm

    Lounging around in my house wearing my Yankee Championship gear and watching my World Series Yankee video, I pause and reflect on all the Philadelphians who are going naked this Christmas because their championship clothing has been donated to Costa Ricans

    Sad to be them.

    Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night

  66. Joe Vogel December 25th, 2009 at 2:04 pm

    Betsy – high on pie
    December 25th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
    How serious is baseball in considering an international draft? To me, it’s a bad idea conjured up by cheap, small market owners who, knowing they can’t get a salary cap, want to punish big market teams via another route
    ————————————————-

    Actually Betsy, an international draft would not necessarily punish the more affluent teams. It would likely attenuate the effectiveness of the most efficient teams in Latin America. For nearly 3 decades this has included both affluent and poorer ballclubs. In the ’80′s, both Toronto and the LA Dodgers were extremely efficient in herding in large numbers of inexpensive young prospects with a significant number who panned out to solid success. In Toronto’s case, it allowed them to become a contending club within a short number of years by getting around the constrictions of the American draft. Contrast this with there 1977 expansion brethren Seattle who stuck primarily with the U.S. in talent procurement. By the ’90′s however, virtually every team had established “academies” in both Venezuela and the Dominican Republic and the competitive balance for this inexpensive talent source levelled out somewhat.

    Asian talent is a different story of course, as the top talent in Japan and Korea are generally known commodities not coming from 3rd world countries. They are generally auctioned off to the highest bidder (See Dice-K, Ichiro, the Kei-man, etc.) making them a much more high-risk venture.

    One effect that an international draft would likely cause is that it would probably act as an added protection of the civil liberties of many young Latin American ballplayers. Instead of being signed very cheaply, often before the MLB-allowable age of 17 y/o (less so since 9/11, some caveats to this age rule), players would likely realize greater negotiating leverage seeing their draft positions. You may see more reputable representation of players (perhaps).
    It may ultimately act to circumvent the practice of hiding players in the DSL and Venezuelan Leagues in order that they do not accrue minor league service time towards free agency. I’m assuming that most MLB fans aren’t aware of some of the rather seedy practices that many major league teams engage in Latin America. It really is/and has been a form of modern American colonialism of one of Latin America’s most valuable natural resources–young baseball players.

  67. CR9 December 25th, 2009 at 2:06 pm

    Duncan is probably also a thug, but the difference between Duncan and Gomes is Duncan did what other major leaguers do, got routine retaliation during a routine baseball play.

    Gomes came charging from the OF and hit Duncan from behind.

    You can snap someone’s neck from behind.

  68. Rich in NJ December 25th, 2009 at 2:11 pm

    Duncan is, in the words of the late, great Warren Zevon, just an excitable boy.

  69. Joe Vogel December 25th, 2009 at 2:11 pm

    Actually, there is one premium young hitter out there that may be worth exploring: Joey Votto. The Reds have dropped hints for 2 seasons now that they are willing to move him (Yonder Alonso is on the way). He could possibly be converted to a corner OF spot (he probably would be slightly subpar at best), but he has a dynamic power bat who has shown excellent plate discipline. This said, the bounty to acquire him would be rather steep.

  70. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2009 at 2:13 pm

    One is a thug, but, the only “probably is”? Getting a little overly dramtic about “snapping someone’s neck”, aren’t you? Your conspiracies make as much sense as that does. Duncan was wrong and it was as dirty a shot as Gomes’ was.

  71. Joe Vogel December 25th, 2009 at 2:14 pm

    86w183
    December 25th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
    Well I’d like to see Long convince Gardner to quit popping the ball up, learn to slash-n-dash and develop some bunting skills. No one with that kind of speed should have an OBP down at .325.

    Still if the Yanks open the season with Gardy/Hoffman in LF I don’t mind. If they play Gardy every day and platoon Granderson I would have HUGE problems.

    Fortunately the only two people on the planet that would consider such a move are posting on this site, not making decisions in pinstripes.
    ——————————-

    86dw145:

    I’m not sure why I’m responding to this but what the heck, it’s Christmas. It sounds like you’re reactively lashing out at Gardner for the mixed results of his partial rookie season.
    Your comments about Granderson conjure up one thought for me: Just because you want something to be so doesn’t make it so.

    Cheers

  72. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2009 at 2:15 pm

    but, the only “probably is

    but, ***the other one only “probably is”***

  73. Joe Vogel December 25th, 2009 at 2:16 pm

    Rich in NJ
    December 25th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
    Duncan is, in the words of the late, great Warren Zevon, just an excitable boy.
    —————
    Most entertaining thought I’ve heard all day.

  74. Rich in NJ December 25th, 2009 at 2:16 pm

    Votto’s career wRC+ is 140, so he is a very good hitter, but he hasn’t played LF since 2007 (only 6 games) and his UZR/150 is awful. You’d really have to have a conviction about his ability to play LF to make that move because he wouldn’t be cheap.

  75. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2009 at 2:17 pm

    Swisher, Pena and Cervelli are better bunters than Gardner and that’s unacceptable.

  76. Joe Vogel December 25th, 2009 at 2:19 pm

    Rich in NJ
    December 25th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
    Votto’s career wRC+ is 140, so he is a very good hitter, but he hasn’t played LF since 2007 (only 6 games) and his UZR/150 is awful. You’d really have to have a conviction about his ability to play LF to make that move because he wouldn’t be cheap
    ————————–
    Oh, I agree about his defense. The Reds just need a DH slot.

  77. CR9 December 25th, 2009 at 2:19 pm

    “Gomes may be a thug”
    “Duncan probably is also a thug”

    They both mean the same thing…

    Hitting someone from behind is dangerous, more dangerous than sliding into someone studs up. The sliding retaliation happens all the time.

    Hitting someone from behind does not. The last time I remember was in the NHL, Todd Bertuzzi hitting Moore from behind.

    Albeit hockey is different from baseball and there is ice involved, but the fact remains hitting someone from behind can result in many serious injuries.

  78. Daveinmd December 25th, 2009 at 2:21 pm

    Happy Chinese Food day Sam. I would seriously talk to Nady about coming back on an incentive laden deal. He’s a good risk.

  79. Joe Vogel December 25th, 2009 at 2:27 pm

    GreenBeret7
    December 25th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
    Swisher, Pena and Cervelli are better bunters than Gardner and that’s unacceptable.
    ——————————
    That’s not even close to being correct. Gardner may not be Ozzie Smith as a bunter, but he is far from incompetent. Latching onto a couple of missed opportunities and stating them as representative of the whole is absurd. I don’t want to sound like an apologist for Gardner (I am far from that as I have stated numerous concerns that I have of him), but at least state his skills correctly. I watched him drop a number of not only well-placed bunts, but more importantly properly executed bunts. From an armchair QB perspective, I believe that sometimes his intensity actually harms him as he hurries or rushes a given situation. In bunting, that often translates into dropping or raising the bathead or even “punching” at the ball as opposed to letting the ball come all the way to you. In sum, he will probably need to relax a bit more and get better control of his emotions at the plate (See Charlie Lau’s 10 Absolutes of Hitting–Relaxaion is a must or all else fails). Good or bad, I still play in leagues in the summer, and I can tell you that there is no greater enemy of a hitter than stress and tension.

  80. Bran December 25th, 2009 at 2:28 pm

    Ryan Church could work, too.

  81. CR9 December 25th, 2009 at 2:33 pm

    That Swish comment does not make much sense GB.

    Swish has a total of 7 sacrifice hits in his career.

    Gardner has a total of 9 in his 2 year career.

    Though that stat alone does not mean anything, wouldn’t you think that Swish might have just a few more sacrifice hits if he was so great.

    Not sure what statistics you have used to boldly state that Swish is better than Gardner at bunting.

  82. MTU December 25th, 2009 at 2:35 pm

    Gb-

    Ok.

    Maybe thug is too harsh.

    Just dont like the guy on the Yanks.

    JMPO.

    Try to stay away from 2 more things you might love.

    Beer and Coffee.

    The connection between them and wanting a smoke is very, very strong.

    I once quit for 2 years went to a party wherupon i prodceeded to imbibe a few spirits, and it wasn’t long before I convinced myself that just 1 cig would be fine.

    Boy was I ever wrong about that.

    nicoteine is very addictive.

    The rate of what they call “spotaneous recovery” of the habit is shocking.

    It is easy to go from one puff to two packs rapidly.

    Just dont take even 1 puff, and try to avoid the things that trigger the habit and it should work out.

    treat yourself like an ex-addict.

    Just my 2 pennies.

  83. 86w183 December 25th, 2009 at 2:36 pm

    Joe Vogel —

    I’m sorry, but when you and NJ Steve suggest Gardner should play every day and Granderson be platooned you are stating that Gardner is the superior player. That is a statement very few if any knowledgeable baseball people would agree with.

    He IS a mediocre bunter, and little speedy guys NEED to be excellent bunters. He should also be fined $ 250 every time he pops up or hits a lazy fly out.

    I have no problem with him getting a chance to play regularly. I’m kinda curious as to how good he could be. He is, however a long way from being in the same conversation as Curtis Granderson.

  84. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 25th, 2009 at 2:38 pm

    “Vinnie, I love naan bread and mango lassis, yum. Dosas, yum. I’m getting so hungry now, lol”
    ——————————————————

    ok. I don’t know mango lassis, what is it? Kabob Place offers a variation of naan which is filled with thin layer of potatoes

    my staples are lamb/goat/chicken vindaloo, vegetable korma, chicken masala, biryani, etc. Never been one for spinach when cooked, yet unexpectely my favorite dish is lamb saag. Off the chain

  85. Bronx Born December 25th, 2009 at 2:38 pm

    Thank you Pat, I thought you would enjoy it!

  86. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 25th, 2009 at 2:43 pm

    “That’s not even close to being correct. Gardner may not be Ozzie Smith as a bunter, but he is far from incompetent”
    ————————————————————

    Joe: for the type of player he is, he is not the bunter he should be. Not even close. And/or if he is, he have yet to show it. This via the #1 gardner fan on the site

  87. CR9 December 25th, 2009 at 2:46 pm

    vinny
    I agree. Gardner is a mediocre bunter at best. With his speed and lack of other traits, he should work to be one of the top 5 or 10 bunters in the league.

  88. mick December 25th, 2009 at 2:46 pm

    6w183 December 25th, 2009 at 2:36 pm

    Joe Vogel —

    I’m sorry, but when you and NJ Steve suggest Gardner should play every day and Granderson be platooned you are stating that Gardner is the superior player. That is a statement very few if any knowledgeable baseball people would agree with.

    He IS a mediocre bunter, and little speedy guys NEED to be excellent bunters. He should also be fined $ 250 every time he pops up or hits a lazy fly out.

    I have no problem with him getting a chance to play regularly. I’m kinda curious as to how good he could be. He is, however a long way from being in the same conversation as Curtis Granderson.
    ==============================================
    This is all psychobabble from sabernerds.

  89. Joe Vogel December 25th, 2009 at 2:48 pm

    86w183
    December 25th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
    Joe Vogel —

    I’m sorry, but when you and NJ Steve suggest Gardner should play every day and Granderson be platooned you are stating that Gardner is the superior player. That is a statement very few if any knowledgeable baseball people would agree with.
    —————————————–

    You’re fundamentally missing the point. I believe that Granderson’s overall is superior to that of Gardner and possibly/probably greater than that of what Gardner’s max. potential is. That said, Granderson’s worth is limited to him as a platoon player playing 2/3 of the time against RHP.

    HE HAS NO/LITTLE WORTH AGAINST LHP’s!

    He has demonstrated this over time. We don’t know whether or not Gardner will hit LHP enough to be an everyday player. Even as an everyday player, his overall worth is probably going to be less than a platooning Granderson. That does not mean that Gardner might not possibly be an everyday OF.
    Stated differently, this whole situation is created due to the enormous difference in Granderson’s LHP/RHP splits. Against RHP, he hits like Mo Vaughn. Against LHP, he’s closer to Alvaro Espinoza.

  90. mick December 25th, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    It seems so much is based on personal bias about who you “like” or “dislike.” For some people it’s even the color of their eyes. I base my opinions by what I see. Usually the #s coincide, be it BA, OBP, W-L or the all important WHIP. But enough with the sabremetrics crap already, it’s a bit much, don’t you think? Anybody?

  91. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 25th, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    “He IS a mediocre bunter, and little speedy guys NEED to be excellent bunters. He should also be fined $ 250 every time he pops up or hits a lazy fly out”
    ———————————————

    yup. I love Gardner, yet i expect him to work harder then other players, due to his lack of talent. I believe he can be a very valuable player if given the chance, however he has to do the ‘little things’ right with not too much margin for error. It is his only chance of remaining a starter for the yankees, or any other team for that matter

  92. bru December 25th, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    i got the patch kit for christmas

    next thursday will be my last cigg.friday the 1st the patch goes on

    can’t say that thursday will be my last cigg forever but i am giving it a serious go

    i am not going to punish myself & go cold turkey

    i will wean down with the patch first

  93. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2009 at 2:53 pm

    With over 280 official at bats, Gardner, with his speed and lack of power, should have twice as many infield hits (16) as he does. He should have had more than that in bunt singles alone. That’s the only way that he’s going to be the most valuable to the team.

  94. cliff December 25th, 2009 at 2:54 pm

    its christmas people, the yankees will be here tomorrow, hangout with your families, that is what xmas is about

  95. CR9 December 25th, 2009 at 2:54 pm

    bru
    good idea. It takes a strong will to quit smoking. Good for you!

  96. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 25th, 2009 at 2:55 pm

    Joe:

    whichever the case Granderson will not be a platoon player with the Yankees. Brian Cashman stated this very clearly. He said they know his history vs LHP, and even if he is not able to improve they will live with this.

  97. mick December 25th, 2009 at 2:55 pm

    Gardner was a walk-on in college. He cannot catch up with a fastball. I would be surprised to see him in pinstripes on Opening Day.

  98. mick December 25th, 2009 at 2:57 pm

    whichever the case Granderson will not be a platoon player with the Yankees.
    ====================================================
    whomever said this must get a life.
    it’s just too deep.
    you don’t have to reach that far to show off your baseball IQ.

  99. Joe Vogel December 25th, 2009 at 2:58 pm

    vinny-b (NJ and Granderson – thank you Cashman!)
    December 25th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
    “That’s not even close to being correct. Gardner may not be Ozzie Smith as a bunter, but he is far from incompetent”
    ————————————————————

    Joe: for the type of player he is, he is not the bunter he should be. Not even close. And/or if he is, he have yet to show it. This via the #1 gardner fan on the site
    ————————————————–
    I agree that he has room for improvement in his bunting. That said, my earlier comment was in response to a statement that claimed that he was in essence utterly incompetent in that department, a statement that I find overreaching and pure hyperbole.
    I do find it interesting how many have claimed that because he is terrifically fast that he should be a great bunter. If you read the comments carefully, you will see that many people are suggesting that his speed would automatically make him a good bunter. That of course is the goal considering this attribute, but I don’t see how the attribute actually contributes to the hand-eye coordination of properly laying down a bunt.

  100. Bret the Hitman December 25th, 2009 at 2:58 pm

    Carl Crawford will not be signing an extension with the Rays if the Yankees pass on Holliday.

    That’s the saving grace in this LF fiasco.

    True, we might suffer for 1 year with a stopgap in LF but Crawford is a fantastic baseball player and perfect table setter with incredible defense. If you put him in LF next to Granderson, they will gobble up outs like it’s goin’ out of style. Not to mention their speed and athleticism on the basepaths.

    When you have a guy barely in his late 20′s with 100 SB ability, it’s premature to be talking about how he might lose his biggest asset over the life of his next contract.

    It’s either Holliday or Crawford.

    Cashman knows it.

    Boras knows it.

    Crawford knows it (or his agent is stupid)

    Holliday knows it.

    Your call, Matt.

  101. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 25th, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    mick:

    have noticed Gardner fouls quite a few of them back. I don’t know if this is a case of being overmatched, or if there is room for improvment

  102. Bret the Hitman December 25th, 2009 at 3:00 pm

    PS, my top choice of the 1 year wonders is Xavier Nady.

    I’d cross my fingers, hope for health and pray Gardner remains on the bench as nothing more than a pinch runner and late inning defensive replacement in LF

  103. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2009 at 3:00 pm

    cliff
    December 25th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
    its christmas people, the yankees will be here tomorrow, hangout with your families, that is what xmas is about

    ————————————————————

    And yet, here you are.

  104. Daveinmd December 25th, 2009 at 3:00 pm

    mick-Why would you decide to stay in the dark when there is information that can help you evaluate players. And what about teh players that you don’t see every day. How can you evaluate them without numbers. Would you go to a doctor that refuses to do tests, but rather treats you only on “what he sees.” I really don’t understand this attitude.

    On Gardner, he certainly caught to the fastball fine for the two months prior to breaking his thumb. He was very good during that time period.

  105. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 25th, 2009 at 3:01 pm

    joe:

    maybe i am naive (or wrong) however, i believe any player can be proficient at bunting. It is a skill which can be aquired via work

  106. mick December 25th, 2009 at 3:01 pm

    It’s either Holliday or Crawford.

    Cashman knows it.

    Boras knows it.

    Crawford knows it (or his agent is stupid)

    Holliday knows it.

    Your call, Matt.
    ========================================
    If the Yanks want Crawford then the call is not Holliday’s.

  107. MTU December 25th, 2009 at 3:03 pm

    Brett-
    Merry Xmas(or whatever you celebrate)

    Dont know what you do for a living but you seem to talk about herbs, vitamins, and the like.

    Could you reccommend a good book on the subject ?

    i.e., one that you have found personally useful.

    Thanks in advance.

  108. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 25th, 2009 at 3:03 pm

    off topic: either crawford or BJ Upton have a future with the Rays. Not both

  109. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2009 at 3:04 pm

    vinny-b (NJ and Granderson – thank you Cashman!)
    December 25th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
    mick:

    have noticed Gardner fouls quite a few of them back. I don’t know if this is a case of being overmatched, or if there is room for improvment

    ————————————————————

    There were too many times when in obvious bunting situations, he seemed disinterested in bunting, making half hearted efforts or watching pitches down the middle and then, swinging and either striking out or popping up.

  110. Daveinmd December 25th, 2009 at 3:04 pm

    Upton is an incredibly overrated player. He needs to put it together.

    I would not give a big contract to Crawford. He just doesn’t get on base enough for me. My big money contract next year would be Cliff Lee.

  111. Mark in Tampa December 25th, 2009 at 3:05 pm

    “Gomes has had a very up-and-down career but put together a pretty solid season last year with the Reds. He’s got some pop, has a fiery spirit and always struck me as a pretty courageous kid.”

    Since it’s Christmas I will be charitable to Gomes and put it very nicely:

    He cannot play at all. The Rays and Reds have non-tendered him in consecutive years. There is a reason for that, and it isn’t just money. I watched the Rays for two years try everybody possible to replace him. If they had any money to burn, they would have DFA’d him in June of ’08 instead of waiting to non-tender him. Wouldn’t make it out of ST with NY.

  112. Joe Vogel December 25th, 2009 at 3:05 pm

    vinny-b (NJ and Granderson – thank you Cashman!)
    December 25th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
    Joe:

    whichever the case Granderson will not be a platoon player with the Yankees. Brian Cashman stated this very clearly. He said they know his history vs LHP, and even if he is not able to improve they will live with this.
    ———————————————–
    That may be true…for awhile. That may likely change if he continues to struggle against LHP. Cashman has made plenty of statements for public consumption that he has later contradicted by his actions. He’s a smart guy who knows how to hedge his bets. To me, bringing in Jamie Hoffman was a low-risk, middling upside hedge providing a RH OF alternative. I suspect another one will be brought on board or another Jason Lane-ish type will be tucked away in AAA for insurance (Or a big name like Damon could be brought back). In sum, I’m sure Cashman is well aware of Granderson’s history.

  113. Boston Dave - XXVII December 25th, 2009 at 3:06 pm

    Upton isn’t overrated.

  114. NJ Steve December 25th, 2009 at 3:06 pm

    86w183 wrote:

    “Joe Vogel — I’m sorry, but when you and NJ Steve suggest Gardner should play every day and Granderson be platooned you are stating that Gardner is the superior player. That is a statement very few if any knowledgeable baseball people would agree with.”

    You see 86w183, this is why you are not grasping what we are saying. You still don’t get it. Let’s take your premise that we each wants Gardner to play every day and platoon Granderson. this does NOT in anyway mean we think Gardner is a better player than Granderson. In fact, Granderson is so good against righties and is a good defensive player that one could argue that he is the best OF’r against righties in the league (or at least one of the best). However, he is perhaps the worst hitter against lefties in the league as well. So why play a guy with an expected OPS against lefties of around .600-.625? Don’t you think Gardner will give you that against lefties? Therefore, I would play Gardner against lefties before I play Granderson because I would expect better offensive production (and we are not even taking into account the SB addition) and I would expect better defensive production as well.

    That all being, said Granderson is so much more valuable 2/3 of the time against righties that he is clearly the better player over Gardner overall, but when you play Granderson against lefties he hurts the team and his overall value in that case.

    Now if we had another guy like Granderson on the team Gardner would not make the lineup against righties, but we don’t and I agree with Joe that we should see what Gardner can improve upon. His OPS in the first half last year when he played more regularly was over .750, with his speed and defense that is good. Is Gardner Juan Pierre/Scott Posednik who each have lifetime OPS’s of .720?…perhaps, but those guys have some value and I think we need to see if Gardner can be more than that…maybe a Carl Crawford type?

  115. 86w183 December 25th, 2009 at 3:08 pm

    Joe now you’re completely missing the point.

    Gardner shouldn’t be an excellent bunter just because he’s fast. Small, fast guys should be excellent bunters because it is crucial to them becoming contributing major league players.

    Brett Butler should be Gardner’s role model. In fact, the Yanks should hire the guy for spring training to teach bunting skills to Gardner and Granderson in particular.

  116. Joe Vogel December 25th, 2009 at 3:09 pm

    vinny-b (NJ and Granderson – thank you Cashman!)
    December 25th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
    joe:

    maybe i am naive (or wrong) however, i believe any player can be proficient at bunting. It is a skill which can be aquired via work
    ——————————–
    Vinny:
    There is alot of truth in that statement. I believe Gardner will likely have more success improving his ability to bunt than Granderson will have learning to hit a LH breaking ball.

  117. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 25th, 2009 at 3:10 pm

    There were too many times when in obvious bunting situations, he seemed disinterested in bunting, making half hearted efforts or watching pitches down the middle and then, swinging and either striking out or popping up
    —————————————————–

    GB: far as watching pitches in the middle of the plate, this may have to do with not having a proper plan at the plate (ie not knowing if he is expected to work long counts or be aggressive). Additionaly Gardner is accused of striking out too often, however a large amount of the SO’s are looking. To me this indicates he is trying to work counts, and adjusting to a new level. This was the case in AAA, and i believe is the case now. I wish to see him receive the chance to start

  118. Mark in Tampa December 25th, 2009 at 3:10 pm

    “off topic: either crawford or BJ Upton have a future with the Rays. Not both”

    That is exactly correct. Since Upton has declined to talk to the Rays about a contract, I think they will attempt to sign Crawford to an extension.

    Upton thinks he is going to play with his brother when he is a FA. Maybe somebody should update him on the economics of the Diamondbacks.

  119. 86w183 December 25th, 2009 at 3:10 pm

    You guys would have looked at the splits and platooned Paul O’Neill from the moment he arrived in the Bronx.

  120. MTU December 25th, 2009 at 3:11 pm

    another improvement Gardener could make would be to learn to chop down on the ball more.

    With his speed he would add to his hit totals that way as well IMO.

  121. CR9 December 25th, 2009 at 3:11 pm

    vinny
    you are right. bunting is a skill. it can be attained through work and practice. i said during the whole time Jose Molina was a Yankee, he had no value at the plate, if he could learn how to sacrifice bunt, it could give him some value. However, the only thing Jose seemed interested in was hacking at the 1st pitch and making outs.

  122. mick December 25th, 2009 at 3:12 pm

    Bunting is a lost art.
    It seems like teams are adopting the moneyball idea and are not inclined to waste outs or play station to station.
    Who was the last great bunter to succeed because of his ability to bunt?
    The most effective bunter happens to be Jeter and it is because he is totally unselfish.

    That is what it takes to be a good bunter, not a lack of talent in other areas.

  123. Joe Vogel December 25th, 2009 at 3:13 pm

    86w183
    December 25th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
    Joe now you’re completely missing the point.

    Gardner shouldn’t be an excellent bunter just because he’s fast. Small, fast guys should be excellent bunters because it is crucial to them becoming contributing major league players.
    ——————————————

    That should be the GOAL for many of those type of players, but their size/speed is not the MEANS that should make them good bunters.
    You’re not reading very carefully, as what I said was that many of the previous comments were claiming the latter is true when it should have been the former.

  124. bru December 25th, 2009 at 3:13 pm

    i heard cashman tried hard to get lee recently before we got vasquez

  125. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 25th, 2009 at 3:13 pm

    “Upton is an incredibly overrated player. He needs to put it together”
    ——————————————————

    well he’s definitely not overrated from a defensive standpoint. Don’t know what happened to him the past season. However, the year before he could have been mistaken for Carlos Beltran in the playoffs (vs the Red Sox in the ALCS). As a CF’er, his talent looks limitless to me

  126. MTU December 25th, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    IMO Upton would benefit from a change of scenery.

    Seems like a Gazelle in CF from what I have seen.
    Instincts are generally good also.

    He had that shoulder surgery and maybe it is taking longer for him to return to full strength.

    If his problems are not attidinal he might be a great get for some team if the price is right.

  127. mick December 25th, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    86w183 December 25th, 2009 at 3:10 pm

    You guys would have looked at the splits and platooned Paul O’Neill from the moment he arrived in the Bronx.
    ==================================================
    And that is the reason why sabremetrics is BS.
    Why don’t Mgrs just carry a laptop in the dugout and feed the info before every pitch?

  128. Betsy - high on pie December 25th, 2009 at 3:15 pm

    Vinny, a lassi is like a yogurt drink – but it’s much better than I’m describing it. Lassis also come in rosewater and other flavors, but I adore mango in all shapes and forms. It’s good with Indian food because it’s nice and cooling – a contrast to often spicy food.

    I don’t eat Indian food often enough to have staples, but do often get chicken korma. I like spicy food, so if I’m in the mood, I’ll get a curry dish – I love rice, so a biryani is good as well

  129. mick December 25th, 2009 at 3:15 pm

    MTU December 25th, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    IMO Upton would benefit from a change of scenery.

    Seems like a Gazelle in CF from what I have seen.
    Instincts are generally good also.

    He had that shoulder surgery and maybe it is taking longer for him to return to full strength.

    If his problems are not attidinal he might be a great get for some team if the price is right.
    ==============================================

    Word is his bro’s an even better player.

  130. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2009 at 3:16 pm

    86, If I’m Casman, I’d bring in Mickey Rivers and turn Gardner over to him. I’d go so far as to make him a coach for the year, but, allow him to have three weeks off a year (for the horse Racing Triple Crown). Rivers was one of the best drag bunters over the 35 years, and a very good sac bunter.

  131. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 25th, 2009 at 3:16 pm

    “Who was the last great bunter to succeed because of his ability to bunt?”
    ————————————————

    Juan Pierre is a pretty good bunter, isn’t he? Pierre receives a lot of criticism yet aside from having a poor SB percentage, he is a fundamentally sound player

  132. MTU December 25th, 2009 at 3:17 pm

    Mick-

    That aint “word” that is fact.

    what genetics.

  133. NJ Steve December 25th, 2009 at 3:18 pm

    Mick, you don’t have a clue about what I know or I don’t, but what you are saying makes no sense. I have no skin in the game with Gardner, all I am saying is that Granderson has proven that he can’t hit lefties. Look at a 1000 ab’s of history, ask any Tiger fan and they will tell you the same painful truth. Ask them about late inning lefty specialists neutralizing him. And please stop with the “anybody who is knowledgeable about baseball” stuff. I played division I ball as a catcher and was drafted, but broke a disc in my back. This does NOT make me know any more than anyone else, because plenty of more talented people than me don’t know squat about how the game works, but I am not someone who is clueless either.

  134. mick December 25th, 2009 at 3:18 pm

    I wish to see him receive the chance to start
    ===================================
    vinny
    he had a chance last year and melky beat him out.

  135. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 25th, 2009 at 3:19 pm

    “Vinny, a lassi is like a yogurt drink – but it’s much better than I’m describing it. Lassis also come in rosewater and other flavors, but I adore mango in all shapes and forms. It’s good with Indian food because it’s nice and cooling – a contrast to often spicy food”
    ——————————————-

    will have to try the lassi. The locale had mentioned serves somethin which looks like a milkshake, expect it may be what you said. Ever tried mango pudding? Very tasty

  136. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2009 at 3:20 pm

    Vinny, it’s strange, but, Gardner’s strongest attribute in the minors was his bunting ability, sac bunts and drag hits.

  137. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 25th, 2009 at 3:20 pm

    “he had a chance last year and melky beat him out”
    ————————————————-

    mick: for a starting CF’er his numbers were very acceptable, before he was injured

  138. mick December 25th, 2009 at 3:20 pm

    Granderson has proven that he can’t hit lefties.
    ===================================================
    And is that irreversible?

  139. MTU December 25th, 2009 at 3:21 pm

    GB-
    then what made him change his approach ?

  140. Joe Vogel December 25th, 2009 at 3:21 pm

    GB: far as watching pitches in the middle of the plate, this may have to do with not having a proper plan at the plate (ie not knowing if he is expected to work long counts or be aggressive). Additionaly Gardner is accused of striking out too often, however a large amount of the SO’s are looking. To me this indicates he is trying to work counts, and adjusting to a new level. This was the case in AAA, and i believe is the case now. I wish to see him receive the chance to start
    ————————————————

    Vinny:

    This is interesting that you mention this. Gardner’s BB rate has fallen off quite a bit since he arrived, but I think it may be somewhat attributable to the fact that he rarely swings at the first pitch (generally a good trait for an established hitter who pitchers respect and have a tendency to pitch to fine to). In Gardner’s case, he sees alot of 1st pitch fastballs more center of the plate, literally a get me over fastball strike one. It may be a case where he will have to be more aggressive early in the count in order to establish a reputation that he can hit. Right now, he seems to be hitting from behind in the count nearly every AB a most difficult proposition.

  141. mick December 25th, 2009 at 3:21 pm

    Vinny, it’s strange, but, Gardner’s strongest attribute in the minors was his bunting ability, sac bunts and drag hits.
    ===================================================
    When you get down to it, bunting has become moot, esp in the AL.

  142. mick December 25th, 2009 at 3:24 pm

    The best bunters are pitchers in the NL.

  143. MTU December 25th, 2009 at 3:24 pm

    Mick-

    IMHO bunting should never become moot.

    It’s like sending a soldier off to battle w/o knowing how to use his rifle, and all it’s capabilities.

    dumb.

  144. Bret the Hitman December 25th, 2009 at 3:25 pm

    MTU,

    Try reading The Ultramind Solution by Mark Hyman. You can download his wellness manual for free on the Internet but I recommend reading the book as well.

    It is the future of medicine.

  145. mick December 25th, 2009 at 3:25 pm

    Tell that to Arod or Puljols, mtu.

  146. Betsy - high on pie December 25th, 2009 at 3:26 pm

    Vinny, that’s probably it – a Lassi sort of does have the consistency of a milkshake, though not as thick. I don’t think I’ve ever tried mango pudding, but I have had mango kulfi, which is sort of like an ice cream….yum

  147. MTU December 25th, 2009 at 3:26 pm

    Thanks Brett.

  148. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 25th, 2009 at 3:27 pm

    “This is interesting that you mention this. Gardner’s BB rate has fallen off quite a bit since he arrived, but I think it may be somewhat attributable to the fact that he rarely swings at the first pitch (generally a good trait for an established hitter who pitchers respect and have a tendency to pitch to fine to). In Gardner’s case, he sees alot of 1st pitch fastballs more center of the plate, literally a get me over fastball strike one. It may be a case where he will have to be more aggressive early in the count in order to establish a reputation that he can hit. Right now, he seems to be hitting from behind in the count nearly every AB a most difficult proposition”
    ———————————————————-
    definitely. Have to keep the pitcher’s honest. In Gardner’s case it may especially true, the first pitch he receives may be the only good one. BTW, when Gardner was first called-up i notice he was really getting squeezed – ALOT. It takes time to adjust to a level

  149. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2009 at 3:27 pm

    MTU
    December 25th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
    GB-
    then what made him change his approach ?

    ————————————————————

    I haven’t a clue, but, this year, the wirst thing that happened to him was hitting those two home runs over the fence. It has always been that one issue that got to Cabrera. He’d have an early season spurt of homers and he’d try to jerk everything out of the park. It would hake a couple of months to straighten him out.

  150. mick December 25th, 2009 at 3:27 pm

    I like Mango straight up , off the skin, I eat it like a peach.:)

  151. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2009 at 3:28 pm

    the ***worst*** thing

  152. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 25th, 2009 at 3:28 pm

    “Vinny, it’s strange, but, Gardner’s strongest attribute in the minors was his bunting ability, sac bunts and drag hits”
    ————————————————–
    interesting, GB. hmmmm

  153. Jacob Ruppert December 25th, 2009 at 3:28 pm

    The problem with Gardner is that he thinks he can do more than he can. Too often, other teams bring in the outfield because they know he has limited power and he tries to pop the ball over them and results in weak pop outs. Gardner needs to realize that he biggest asset is his speed and stop watching the fielders. If he hones his speed, he can pretty much turn every walk, single, and error into a double which would be a valuable asset to the number 9 hitter on the Yankees.

    As for an above discussion regarding Jonny Gomes, I was actually at the spring training game that Cervelli’s wrist got broken. Maddon and the Rays were chirping from the dugout about how they weren’t going to take the Yankees crap anymore, insinuating that some backup taking out our catcher at home plate during a meaningless game was a sign of force. Duncan is anything but a thug, he comes from a baseball family and he did the right thing in sliding hard into 2nd base even if it was in a different game. Ty Cobb would have been proud.

    Gomes, who by the way had a heart attack in his early 20′s and you might think would actually understand how life can be cut short easily, could easily have been a modern day Kermit Washington, the guy who destroyed Rudy Tomjanovich’s face with a sucker punch from off the bench in an NBA game. He is lucky that Shelley’s father and brother didn’t come after him because I know if somebody did that to my brother, even if was during a baseball game, I wouldn’t have let that slide. Gomes has no place in baseball.

  154. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 25th, 2009 at 3:29 pm

    “I like Mango straight up , off the skin, I eat it like a peach.:)”
    ————————————————

    it is time for a Pedro Martinez reference :)

  155. mick December 25th, 2009 at 3:30 pm

    when I was a little boy under the mango tree…

  156. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 25th, 2009 at 3:32 pm

    “another improvement Gardener could make would be to learn to chop down on the ball more.
    With his speed he would add to his hit totals that way as well IMO”
    ———————————————–
    MTU: Betsy mentioned this yesterday (aka Baltimore Chop). Look like she knows her history

  157. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 25th, 2009 at 3:33 pm

    “when I was a little boy under the mango tree…”
    ———————————————-
    lol. It never gets tired. It was a trip when he said it

  158. mick December 25th, 2009 at 3:34 pm

    close your eyes and he’s latke

  159. Joe Vogel December 25th, 2009 at 3:36 pm

    mick
    December 25th, 2009 at 3:14 pm
    86w183 December 25th, 2009 at 3:10 pm

    You guys would have looked at the splits and platooned Paul O’Neill from the moment he arrived in the Bronx.
    ==================================================
    And that is the reason why sabremetrics is BS.
    Why don’t Mgrs just carry a laptop in the dugout and feed the info before every pitch?
    —————————————–
    Mick:

    You seem to enjoy making alot of reactionary assumptions. First of all, you seem to be implying that I’m some sort of “sabremetric nerd” that draws all of his conclusions from a calculation or formulation. Quite the contrary, I enjoy the emotional aspect of sport, so much so that I still play baseball in the summers (I’d still play football if my wife would let me). Unfortunately, God blessed me with enough intellectual abilities to understand that successful people don’t make important decisions exclusively based upon “hunches” and personal biases. They will often employ certain metrics in order to aid in the decision-making process (arguments often abound about what is the proper metric(s)). However, decisions are still a cumulative process: metrics, observations, prognostications, measurements, capacity, flexibility and limitations imposed by the decision. Otherwise, as Gordon Gekko would say, “You’re just throwin’ darts at a board”.

  160. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2009 at 3:37 pm

    Jacob Ruppert
    December 25th, 2009 at 3:28 pm

    Gomes, who by the way had a heart attack in his early 20’s and you might think would actually understand how life can be cut short easily, could easily have been a modern day Kermit Washington, the guy who destroyed Rudy Tomjanovich’s face with a sucker punch from off the bench in an NBA game. He is lucky that Shelley’s father and brother didn’t come after him because I know if somebody did that to my brother, even if was during a baseball game, I wouldn’t have let that slide. Gomes has no place in baseball.

    ————————————————————

    Should Iwamura’s family have flown in from Japan and gone after Duncan for trying to spike him in the legs with a slide that was last used in the 1940s on jackie Robinson?

    Just another load of BS. I’ve been a Yankee fan longer than most of you have been alive, but a cheap shot is still a cheap shot, regardless of the instigating player’s team.

  161. NJ Steve December 25th, 2009 at 3:38 pm

    mick said, “You guys would have looked at the splits and platooned Paul O’Neill from the moment he arrived in the Bronx.”

    86w183 said, “And that is the reason why sabremetrics is BS.
    Why don’t Mgrs just carry a laptop in the dugout and feed the info before every pitch?”
    __________

    WOW, I thought this group had a pulse to it? That is why SABR is BS? LOL. Do you know that for some reason Oneill started to hit a lot better when he came to NY and it had NOTHING to do with hitting more or not being platooned? In fact, Oneill’s first 3 years in the Bronx he averaged 442 AB’s compared to the 510 AB’s he had the last 3 years with Cinci? You probably didn’t know that. You also probably didn’t know that while O’Neill became a much better hitter overall with the Yankees he was still a guy who a lot better against righties and it was why he rested against lefties when they gave him rest. his career OPS against righties was .888 and his career OPS against lefties was .700.

    For reference, if Granderson had an OPS of .700 against lefties, while it still would be very weak, it would be a very large improvement.

    You shouldn’t make fun of things you don’t understand.

  162. mick December 25th, 2009 at 3:39 pm

    How baseball got this far I will never know.
    Just seems cold and clinical to me.
    It’s supposed to be fun, not rocket science.

  163. mick December 25th, 2009 at 3:41 pm

    Should Iwamura’s family have flown in from Japan and gone after Duncan for trying to spike him in the legs with a slide that was last used in the 1940s on jackie Robinson?
    ====================================================
    LOL. Help me with the “nerds”, willya?

  164. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 25th, 2009 at 3:42 pm

    “Just another load of BS. I’ve been a Yankee fan longer than most of you have been alive, but a cheap shot is still a cheap shot, regardless of the instigating player’s team”
    ———————————————————
    it was a cheap shot. Yet at the same time, i was happy Shelley was on our team :)

  165. mick December 25th, 2009 at 3:42 pm

    vinny

    Are Joe Vogel and NJ steve the same guy?

  166. Joe Vogel December 25th, 2009 at 3:43 pm

    NJ Steve:

    You’re beating me to the punch. I was about to say that O’Neill had a number of years in NY where he would have better served as a platoon player. That said, his struggles against LHP are not nearly as bad as those of Granderson.

  167. Joe Vogel December 25th, 2009 at 3:45 pm

    mick
    December 25th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
    vinny

    Are Joe Vogel and NJ steve the same guy?
    ———————————————
    Not unless NJ Steve is freezing his nuggets off in Des Moines, Iowa. However, my Health Law professor is a Jersey Girl.

  168. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2009 at 3:47 pm

    NJ Steve
    December 25th, 2009 at 3:38 pm

    WOW, I thought this group had a pulse to it? That is why SABR is BS? LOL. Do you know that for some reason Oneill started to hit a lot better when he came to NY and it had NOTHING to do with hitting more or not being platooned? In fact, Oneill’s first 3 years in the Bronx he averaged 442 AB’s compared to the 510 AB’s

    ————————————————————

    Of course, it’s not like the the 1994 season was only 113 games long and the 1995 season was only 144 games long would explain the lack of at bats, is it?

  169. mick December 25th, 2009 at 3:47 pm

    Joe Vogel December 25th, 2009 at 3:45 pm

    mick
    December 25th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
    vinny

    Are Joe Vogel and NJ steve the same guy?
    ———————————————
    Not unless NJ Steve is freezing his nuggets off in Des Moines, Iowa. However, my Health Law professor is a Jersey Girl.
    ==============================================
    I thought you sounded like a college student, I’ve been away too long.

  170. burr December 25th, 2009 at 3:47 pm

    bring back Nady!!!!!

  171. mick December 25th, 2009 at 3:49 pm

    Hopefully Kevin Long picks up a book on sabremetrics before ST to help Grandy out.

  172. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 25th, 2009 at 3:49 pm

    “Just another load of BS. I’ve been a Yankee fan longer than most of you have been alive, but a cheap shot is still a cheap shot, regardless of the instigating player’s team”
    ——————————————————–

    Joe: lived in Cedar Rapids briefly as a child. Iowa is kinda underrated in a way. Not a tree in the state. Alot of rolling hills, tho. Have you ever visited Bob Feller’s museum? I like that man

  173. NJ Steve December 25th, 2009 at 3:49 pm

    BTW, when it comes to Gardner, the one concern I have with him is that I don’t think he has good instincts. he actually has great tools, but his instincts at getting jumps for stealing and his instincts at the plate (are kind of like Cano) are just not good. Maybe he is dumb? I don’t know, but the guy has elite talent and I would like to see whether he could get his OPS up to .750 before SB’s and defensive contributions.

    As for the question about Granderson and is his terrible hitting against lefties irreversible? I would say that changes and adjustments can always happen, but after 685 PA against lefties his OBP is .270! TWO SEVENTY. His OPS is .614. So i would say it is unlikely that he would improve 100 points of OPS to make him barely playable against lefties or 150 points where he would be an OK option or 200 points where he would be a good option.

  174. mick December 25th, 2009 at 3:50 pm

    I could use a beer about now, not that I drink, but that double nerd attack was too much.

  175. Jacob Ruppert December 25th, 2009 at 3:52 pm

    “Should Iwamura’s family have flown in from Japan and gone after Duncan for trying to spike him in the legs with a slide that was last used in the 1940s on jackie Robinson? Just another load of BS. I’ve been a Yankee fan longer than most of you have been alive, but a cheap shot is still a cheap shot, regardless of the instigating player’s team”

    GreenBeret

    I think we have a fundamental difference of opinion on this subject matter. While I find there to be distinction between a cheap shot taken within a baseball play as a means of policing the game as opposed to a cheap shot that was outside the bounds of the game that could have seriously injured or even killed someone, you do not see that distinction. No worries, we can still have an intelligent rational discussion despite our differing opinions.

  176. NJ Steve December 25th, 2009 at 3:52 pm

    Of course, it’s not like the the 1994 season was only 113 games long and the 1995 season was only 144 games long would explain the lack of at bats, is it?

    _________________

    Green beret, that is a valid point :)

  177. 86w183 December 25th, 2009 at 3:53 pm

    O’Neill had an OPS against LHP in the .500s his last two years in Cincinnati. Granderson, the guy you two want to platoon has a .614 career OPS against LF pitching.

    Occasional days off against lefties is not what you guys have been advocating. You’ve been suggesting part-time status for Granderson and full time for Gardner. That’s just goofy.

    Do you guys not understand the value that regular players provide for a team even when they have dramatic splits? Granderson is an every day player, period. O’Neill was an every day player, period. To imply he should have platooned some years is proof that you two are hung up on stats to the exclusion of thought.

    And don’t misquote me NJ Steve, I never wrote that about sabermetrics.

  178. mick December 25th, 2009 at 3:55 pm

    NJ Steve December 25th, 2009 at 3:49 pm

    BTW, when it comes to Gardner, the one concern I have with him is that I don’t think he has good instincts. he actually has great tools,
    =================================================
    What tool, other than speed, does Gardner possess?

  179. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    vinny-b (NJ and Granderson – thank you Cashman!)
    December 25th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
    “Just another load of BS. I’ve been a Yankee fan longer than most of you have been alive, but a cheap shot is still a cheap shot, regardless of the instigating player’s team”
    ———————————————————
    it was a cheap shot. Yet at the same time, i was happy Shelley was on our team

    ————————————————————

    Yeah, but, it was a cheap shot like that that could cause a player like Rodriguez, Jeter, Cano or Posada to really get hurt. Go after the player that started it, not the guy that’s totally defenseless waiting for the ball.

    Duncan was the defacto enforcer, but, it was just too dirty for my tastes. In particular with the Tampa team, who has been a team that loves to start crap and then hide behind the “it’s hard ball playing”. You saw that with the Teixeira plays at the end of the year. It mattered little to them that the only reason Pena broke his hand was because he swung at the ball and his hand hit his hand instead of the bat. Pena also stood on top of the plate. Maddon preaches dirty play disguised as hardnosed baseball.

  180. mick December 25th, 2009 at 3:58 pm

    As you said, even his speed instincts are bad, doesn’t this make him a bad player. Hell Bubba Crosby didn’t last and he was better than Gardner.

  181. Joe Vogel December 25th, 2009 at 3:59 pm

    mick
    ———————————————
    Not unless NJ Steve is freezing his nuggets off in Des Moines, Iowa. However, my Health Law professor is a Jersey Girl.
    ==============================================
    I thought you sounded like a college student, I’ve been away too long.
    ———————————

    Mick:
    Nice comment in a condescending sort of way. I’m not your traditional type student. I’m a 34 y/o 2nd year law student who worked as a nurse for 11 years (in a prison and the 2 largest hospitals in the state). I also have a BA in politics and a master’s. My wife is a physician (on-call today) and I still play sports voraciously. My uncle played briefly in the bigs as did one of my pitchers in high school (I think mooching off of the success of others is supposed to give me “street cred”). My favorite color is green and my biggest turn-off is ashtrays and people who don’t use coasters (Anybody get that reference?).

    Any other questions Mick?

  182. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 25th, 2009 at 4:00 pm

    “You saw that with the Teixeira plays at the end of the year. It mattered little to them that the only reason Pena broke his hand was because he swung at the ball and his hand hit his hand”
    —————————————————-

    yes. That made my blood boil. My view of Joe Maddon changed severely, following the last year

  183. NJ Steve December 25th, 2009 at 4:00 pm

    Well Mick, why don’t I put it this way. You can either use your scouting ability or your statistical study ability to come up with your opinions, but using just your gut without either is a very poor way to predict.

    I was a player so my original view was from a scouting point of view, however, after studying the statistical side, I was swayed tremendously by the data. I tend to look at the data and trust my eyes and come to conclusions that way. My gut has very little to do with it, but when I see something that I “know” even though the stats won’t tell you that I make a prediction. For example, before last year I predicted that Cano would see his OPS go up more than 125 points. he was coming off a bad year where his OPS was only .715. Now the stats showed that he had the ability to have an OPS in the .800′s as he did it before so it wasn’t ground breaking, but his quick wrists and ability to square the ball were the main reasons for the prediction. if Cano didn’t have his head up his rear at the plate and had any discipline or instinct at the plate he would be one of the best in the game, he is that good. But he has a mentality at times that he will swing no matter where the pitch is.

  184. mick December 25th, 2009 at 4:01 pm

    vinny
    These guys get quiet when it comes “baseball” talk. Now “science” talk is something different. Wait, it takes time they have to research before they speak.

  185. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2009 at 4:02 pm

    A lot of O’Neill’s issues in Cincinnati were caused by Pinella’s attempts to turn him into a home run hitter. That wasn’t O’Neill’s strength, He was a line drive hitter with power. O’Neill argued against it and it just screwed up his swing.

  186. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 25th, 2009 at 4:02 pm

    “These guys get quiet when it comes “baseball” talk. Now “science” talk is something different. Wait, it takes time they have to research before they speak”

    lol. Time to take a walk. Too much food

  187. mick December 25th, 2009 at 4:03 pm

    But he has a mentality at times that he will swing no matter where the pitch is.
    ====================================================
    Now that’s what I’m talking about, straight from the gut, the other stuff is unreadable.

  188. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2009 at 4:04 pm

    vinny-b (NJ and Granderson – thank you Cashman!)
    December 25th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
    “You saw that with the Teixeira plays at the end of the year. It mattered little to them that the only reason Pena broke his hand was because he swung at the ball and his hand hit his hand”
    —————————————————-

    yes. That made my blood boil. My view of Joe Maddon changed severely, following the last year

    ————————————————————

    I don’t know if he’s trying to become a latter day Billy Martin, but, his “style” will get his players hurt a lot more often.

  189. Nick in SF in Charlotte, NC December 25th, 2009 at 4:06 pm

    Merry Christmas?

  190. mick December 25th, 2009 at 4:07 pm

    Any other questions Mick?
    ==============================
    Am I supposed to be impressed?

    Go rent the movie “Multiplicity” with Michael Keaton bc I can’t tell you and NJ Steven apart, then you’ll know how I feel.

    As MTU would say, “Comprendo?” or was that Julio Bardem from “No Country”?

  191. Nick in SF in Charlotte, NC December 25th, 2009 at 4:07 pm

    The filters are not feeling my holiday spirit, but I hope everybody is having a great day.

  192. mick December 25th, 2009 at 4:09 pm

    Gonna get my Chinese on, quite the pleasure on this joyous day, enjoy all!

  193. Joe Vogel December 25th, 2009 at 4:10 pm

    Vinny:
    Cedar Rapids is a good factory town. At one time we lived in Coralville/Iowa City and would get up there alot.
    You’re right about the trees unless you get over to the Mississippi River or down in the southern counties.
    I’m actually originally from west-central Iowa which is pretty much dominated by farmland. It was great when as a kid as in the summer you could play ball all summer and bale hay, walk beans, and work hogs for a bit of cash and a workout. Winters are a bit rough at times but if you don’t mind sub-zero temperatures, snow football and snow mobiles are a hell of alot of fun. There’s a reason that the University of Iowa’s wrestling program is so dominant. The rural culture tends to be a bit on the physical/aggressive side.
    Anyway, all in all, it’s not a bad place to live (relatively low cost of living, low crime rates, good schools).

  194. pkiledelphia , TSOP December 25th, 2009 at 4:12 pm

    hobble 2:04 pm

    Philly will see ya in postseason, and oh by the way Halladay will pitch on 3 days rest!

    Philly just nabbed the best pitcher in the MLB. Home field advantage is already won for the All Star Game, with Halladay.

  195. Jacob Ruppert December 25th, 2009 at 4:14 pm

    GB

    While you are right that Duncan’s play might have gotten one of our better player’s hurt, he was doing what he has grown up taught to do, which is defend his teammates within the context of the game. And you are 100 percent right, Maddon is a dirty manager if that is possible. He has tried to be a poor man’s Scioscia without the losing to the Red Sox in the playoffs and a lot dirtier.

  196. Joe Vogel December 25th, 2009 at 4:14 pm

    Vinny:
    Feller’s museum is less than a 1/2 hour west of Des Moines. It’s not exceptionally large, but it does have a number of cool things. My favorite is the St. Louis Brown’s Ken Williams’ bat (a monster well over 40 oz.).
    As for Feller himself, I’m a bit disappointed. He has such a curmudgeonly personality that it detracts from what I believe he could be: a graceful ambassador of the game with a lifetime of fascinating experiences. Instead, he comes off more like a bitter old man failing to age gracefully.

  197. CR9 December 25th, 2009 at 4:15 pm

    GB7
    I see how well you evaluate the talent in the minors on this blog on a daily basis. I assume you followed and evaluated the Yankees minors a decade ago. So, what were your thoughts on Jeter and Bernabe while they were in the minors?

  198. Christina25 December 25th, 2009 at 4:18 pm

    I hate to write this on this Cristmas Day but I have to say something. While some people are laughing at Pedroia for being short let me share a story about my mother’s cousin wife and let me call her Anna. Her brother in law got married to Rose that had a problem with her foot. Anna was making fun of her all the time calling her a handicap. Years have gone by and Anna’s daughter got married and had a little girl. This little girl was born with short hands. while she was growing up her hands grew very little and she couldnt even dress or feed herself. Now she is an adult and things havent change much. The moral of the story? Think before you laugh at somebody’s appearance or abilities because you know what? It may come back to haunt you.

  199. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2009 at 4:19 pm

    It’s beyond ridiculous to keep defending Duncan’s actions as hardnosed. it was strictly an uncalled for cheapshot. Let the pitcher drill the offending player/hitter in the ribs,

  200. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2009 at 4:21 pm

    I don’t offer any evaluations on a player that I haven’t seen. I didn’t see Jeter and Bernie Williams in the minors.

  201. Joe Vogel December 25th, 2009 at 4:23 pm

    Mick:

    I doubt that you’re the kind of person that I would try to impress.

  202. tom tresh 15 December 25th, 2009 at 4:23 pm

    Nick,

    Merry Christmas and welcome to Charlotte

  203. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2009 at 4:23 pm

    Christina25
    December 25th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
    I hate to write this on this Cristmas Day but I have to say something. While some people are laughing at Pedroia for being short let me share a story about my mother’s cousin wife and let me call her Anna. Her brother in law got married to Rose that had a problem with her foot. Anna was making fun of her all the time calling her a handicap. Years have gone by and Anna’s daughter got married and had a little girl. This little girl was born with short hands. while she was growing up her hands grew very little and she couldnt even dress or feed herself. Now she is an adult and things havent change much. The moral of the story? Think before you laugh at somebody’s appearance or abilities because you know what? It may come back to haunt you.

    ————————————————————

    I’ll call BS on your continuing sob stories. Go share it all with your Sox buddies.

  204. Giller December 25th, 2009 at 4:28 pm

    Gardner in left for 2010, then Jeter in left from 2011 on? Probably…

  205. Nick in SF in Charlotte, NC December 25th, 2009 at 4:28 pm

    Thanks, tom! I’m in Eastover. How about you?

  206. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2009 at 4:29 pm

    tom tresh 15
    December 25th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
    Nick,

    Merry Christmas and welcome to Charlotte

    ————————————————————

    Ahh…Tommy T. one of the great switch hitters of the game. Only knee injuries kept him from being so much better. How ironic is it that his idol was Mickey Mantle and supposed center field replacement, once Steve Whittaker bombed.

  207. randy l. December 25th, 2009 at 4:34 pm

    i doubt gardner will ever be a great bunter because it’s a skill that takes years to really learn.

    .. and here’s the sticky part.

    it might be a skill that has to be learned young.

    there’s a book that discusses skills that have to be learned by a certain age : Mozart’s Brain and the Fighter Pilot: ~ Richard Restak M.D.

    http://www.amazon.com/Mozarts-.....0609604457

    it’s easy to understand with language. when someone learns a second language before a certain age, they can speak it without an accent. after a certain point another language gets much harder to learn. the brain has windows of opportunities for learning certain things.

    he gives the example of world class violinists where the window closes, if i remember right, in the late teens. he talked about michael jordan and said that jordan was a decent player when young , but misses a whole period where he should have been learning baseball skills that had a window that had closed by the time picked it up again

    he basically said that jordan played baseball with a basketball accent.

    gardner has probably missed the time when his brain was plastic enough to get the feel of bunting without an accent.

    that said, he could practice a lot and get better.he’s just not going to natural at it .

  208. Joe Vogel December 25th, 2009 at 4:38 pm

    Randy I:

    I think the phrase is that, “when they are children, they soak it up like sponges”.

    Do you believe that applies equally to both fine and gross motor skills, bunting being more in the latter category while playing the piano in the former?

  209. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2009 at 4:40 pm

    As much as anything….bunting is something that a player wants to do.

  210. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2009 at 4:48 pm

    Correction:

    As much as anything….bunting is something that a player ***has to want*** to do.

  211. Rose December 25th, 2009 at 4:51 pm

    Granderson was not brought here to be a platoon player. He will be and should be the every day centerfielder.

    Gardner will not be the everyday leftfielder. At best he is a platoon player.
    ————————
    GreenBeret7 is right on the mark about the Duncan slide. It was a dirty play. Just because he was a Yankee player doesn’t make it right.

  212. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 25th, 2009 at 4:52 pm

    “As for Feller himself, I’m a bit disappointed. He has such a curmudgeonly personality that it detracts from what I believe he could be: a graceful ambassador of the game with a lifetime of fascinating experiences. Instead, he comes off more like a bitter old man failing to age gracefully.”
    ———————————————————-

    joe: it is cool you were able to visit the museum. I don’t know, i don’t share the same view of Feller. From the Ken Burns documentary i didn’t get that image of him. And definitely not from the interview with Bob Costas. In fact, the opposite of the discription you mentioned. Maybe it is because my father is old skool, that i know how to take certain personalities (Ditka, Singletary, etc). Will admit, it disappoints if Feller did not take a pro-Negro league view. As i believe the banning of blacks in baseball is the most tragic event in the history of baseball, and one of the saddest in this nation. That said, when Costas raised the subject Feller’s reply was one of both wisdom and humility

  213. Broad Street December 25th, 2009 at 4:57 pm

    Duncan was merely being a good teammate and sticking up for his team.

    His arrival on the team ended us being used as punching bags. Now when teams hit one of ours, we hit one of theirs. Remember all the brawls we got into in 2008? Joba/Youakallis, the ST Cervelli one, Edwar/Millar, Hawkins vs. Luke Scott, Pudge vs. Torri Hunter, Farnsworth throwing at Manny, etc.

    Duncan changed the complexison of our team in 2008 ST and gave us toughness. I have no problem with him sticking up for his team and taking matters into his own hands.

  214. CR9 December 25th, 2009 at 4:58 pm

    Christina25
    Who are you kidding? People joke about Pedroia’s height. It is nothing personal and not meant as an insult. He is one heck of a player. He makes the most out of his abilities, in spite of his midget like qualities.

    If you want an attack on Pedroia, his name should be PEDroia, as he might be on Performance Enhancing Drugs!

  215. Joe Vogel December 25th, 2009 at 5:01 pm

    Vinny:

    Point well taken and agreed with in regards to Feller’s accomodationistic view towards African-Americans in baseball. My background sounds similar in perspective (Several of my favorite coaches were much more Bob Knight-ish than Vermeil-ish). My observation is rooted in more of his view of where the game has gone. I often find myself yearning for a more nostalgic view of the game, but not in the sense that I believe the previous way the game was played was the best brand of baseball in every aspect. This is how I have often interpreted Feller. I certainly could be wrong and I apologize for my convoluted way of saying this.

  216. Sal December 25th, 2009 at 5:02 pm

    Yankees signed Geoffrey Sarnataro the other day. Had a decent season in 09 and figures to be in the LF mix.

  217. Mike December 25th, 2009 at 5:06 pm

    People try and make Garnder into something that he is not, just because he has great speed.

    He can’t bunt, so that takes away a huge weapon that a lot of speedsters have (the ability to throw off a defense by bunting for a hit).

    His speed is overrated because he has no instincts. How many times did Girardi put him into to run and he didn’t, or he got caught? He doesn’t read pitchers well and doesn’t know when or when not to steal.

    He also can’t turn balls to anywhere in the outfield into extra base hits because he doesn’t hit balls into the gaps. He also doesn’t hit enough balls on the ground. How many times did he hit weak pop ups?

    It is easy to say Gardner can become Ellsbury, but Ellsbury knows how to use his speed and models his offensive game around it. Gardner doesn’t. He needs to work hard this off-season, or he is going to lose his job to Trevor Hoffmann by the 2nd week of the season.

  218. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 25th, 2009 at 5:09 pm

    “His speed is overrated because he has no instincts. How many times did Girardi put him into to run and he didn’t, or he got caught? He doesn’t read pitchers well and doesn’t know when or when not to steal”
    —————————————————
    don’t you think experience can play a roll in this? Gardner has not played in many games, at the major league level

  219. randy l. December 25th, 2009 at 5:09 pm

    joe vogel-

    i think bunting is a fairly sophisticated skill.

    i think great bunter’s can” catch” the ball and basically put it where they want it.

    the bat is in the fingers and it’s totally a feel thing.

    so if i had to use fine motor skill vs gross motor skill description, i’d call it more of a fine motor skill.

    most mlb players can’t bunt well so for them it’s a gross motor thing and that’s probably the problem because i think it”s a finesse skill.

    most mlb players were the man on their little league, babe ruth , and high school team.
    they didn’t bunt. for all we know gardner hit 47 home runs in little league. it’s obvious from watching him ,he’s never bunted much in his life.

    he likely simply didn’t get the repetitions in when he was young .

    when i was a kid we all imitated mantle drag bunting. even the righties would turn around and practice drag bunting. i was a lefty so i would some days practice with friends for hours.

    the velocity of the pitch doesn’t matter much if you’re good enough to “catch” the ball when bunting. or if it’s at your head.

    i suspect that the reason that a bunt foul with two strikes is an out is because back in early days of baseball , back when players could really bunt, they could bunt every pitch foul for hours. the game could be brought to a standstill.

    bunting is easy if you can do it. hard if you can’t.

    but gardner is so fast he could get a lot of hits even on bad bunts , so he should put the time in even if he’s never going to be a great bunter.

  220. CR9 December 25th, 2009 at 5:10 pm

    Rose
    Yes, it was a dirty slide, no question about it. But it was within the game of baseball (and it was also not throwing at someone’s head, using the baseball as a weapon like Josh Beckett).

  221. Dumbo December 25th, 2009 at 5:11 pm

    Gardner is a track star – not a baseball player. He can’t even be a pinch runner because of how poor his instincts are.

    If we want a pinch runner, just bring back Guzman. At least he was always aggressive and he can probably hit as well (or rather, as poorly) as Gardner.

    Gardner really serves no purpose on the roster. Speed can only take you so far. It’s like having a good fastball– you need more than that to be successful. It is a nice starting point, but you have to apply it properly.

  222. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 25th, 2009 at 5:12 pm

    Mike: in addition, i have heard people rave about Gardner’s running game and baserunning insticts when he was in AA/AAA. Alan Horne’s father being one person who would post frequently regarding Gardner. By all accounts Gardner was a terror to pitchers at the AA/AAA level. Inflicting complete disruption. I look forward to him receiving a chance to do this in the #9/double-leadoff role, this year

  223. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 25th, 2009 at 5:14 pm

    “If we want a pinch runner, just bring back Guzman. At least he was always aggressive and he can probably hit as well (or rather, as poorly) as Gardner.
    Gardner really serves no purpose on the roster. Speed can only take you so far. It’s like having a good fastball– you need more than that to be successful. It is a nice starting point, but you have to apply it properly”
    —————————————————
    ignorant post

  224. Joe December 25th, 2009 at 5:14 pm

    The Ellsbury/Gardner comparisons need to stop.

    Ellsbury hit .300 last year, lead the AL in steals (70/82), had almost 200 hits, 27 doubles, and 9 HRs. Gardner can only dream of putting up those numbers.

    Time to get a legit left fielder in here. Holliday is still out there.

  225. sar515 December 25th, 2009 at 5:15 pm

    Why haven’t I even heard Jerry Hairston’s name mentioned.

    Very good bench guy…and could play some LF and CF vs. lefties.

    Anyone heard any rumors about him?

  226. Yankee God December 25th, 2009 at 5:17 pm

    Get used to it, Gardner haters. With DeRosa almost off the board, there is nobody else out there.

    Cashman is not signing Byrd, Nady, Dye, Vlad, etc. and has no interest in bringing Damon back, nor depleting their farm further by going after someone solid.

    The most that he will do is bring in a RH platoon like Reed Johnson. But Gardner will be the starter, start against all righties, and that is the end of it.

  227. pete December 25th, 2009 at 5:20 pm

    green beret: Jett Hoffner = Brett Gardner + Jamie Hoffman…if you had actually bothered to read what I wrote, I’m fairly certain that even you could have figured that out. Jamie Hoffman was rated the best defensive outfielder in the yankees system by baseball america, so i’m willing to bet that he’d be a solid defensive LF. As for gardner, he had a UZR/150 (I know it’s hard to rely on uzr/150 and projection stats like that, but he didn’t play enough to get much info out of his still sterling +7 UZR) of +15 in center, so I wouldn’t be all that surprised by a ~+20 in left…and this site seeeriously needs a reply function

  228. Rose December 25th, 2009 at 5:20 pm

    “Yes, it was a dirty slide, no question about it. But it was within the game of baseball (and it was also not throwing at someone’s head, using the baseball as a weapon like Josh Beckett).”

    Why are you making excuses for Duncan? Within the game of baseball? It was a dirty slide period.

    I do not equate a dirty slide with throwing at someone’s head. Cannot condone it whether it is Beckett or Joba.

  229. Yankee in ND December 25th, 2009 at 5:21 pm

    Don’t kid yourself. Damon is still very much in play as long as 1) he’s available and 2) we haven’t signed someone else first. After trading away Melky, we are not going into 2010 with Gardner as our LF. I love the guy’s heart, his spunk, and his speed…but I would prefer to have someone else in LF.

  230. Joe Vogel December 25th, 2009 at 5:25 pm

    Non baseball related:

    I’m thumbing thru the channels on the tube and the Glenn Beck Dog & Pony show is doing his Christmas Special. It astonishes me how many people fall for this chuckle-head’s act.

  231. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 25th, 2009 at 5:28 pm

    “Don’t kid yourself. Damon is still very much in play as long as 1) he’s available and 2) we haven’t signed someone else first. After trading away Melky, we are not going into 2010 with Gardner as our LF. I love the guy’s heart, his spunk, and his speed…but I would prefer to have someone else in LF”
    ———————————————-

    I don’t believe this to be the case at all. The signing of Nick Johnson bein the difference. To me (and i expect Cashman) NJ is a difference maker in this lineup. When the second weakest hitter in the lineup is Nick Swisher, it is a lineup with no holes. In addtion, the yankees continue to transition to younger players. Factor in Damon’s defense, and Damon is no longer needed. Not unless there is an injury. Cashman has moved on

  232. David December 25th, 2009 at 5:29 pm

    What part of “younger, more athletic, and better defensively” don’t you people understand?

    Cashman has no interest in signing another aging DH to play left. He is perfectly content with a young, explosive OF. Gardner can steal 50 bases as a starter. Kevin Long will work hard with him harnessing his bunting skills and ability to spray the ball to the OF. He also provides excellent defense.

    Hoffman was rated the best defensive outfielder in the Dodgers system for 4 years (a pretty stacked system BTW). He has hit well in the minors, mashes lefties, can steal some bases, doesn’t strike out much and will take some walks.

    Both of them will be our OFers in 2010. We don’t need 34 yr old Reed Johnson and his balky back problems. We already have a RH OFer in Hoffman. What was the point of taking Hoffman in the rule 5 if you are just going to replace him with an older, more expensive version in Reed Johnson?

  233. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 25th, 2009 at 5:32 pm

    Cashman has no interest in signing another aging DH to play left. He is perfectly content with a young, explosive OF. Gardner can steal 50 bases as a starter. Kevin Long will work hard with him harnessing his bunting skills and ability to spray the ball to the OF. He also provides excellent defense.
    Hoffman was rated the best defensive outfielder in the Dodgers system for 4 years (a pretty stacked system BTW). He has hit well in the minors, mashes lefties, can steal some bases, doesn’t strike out much and will take some walks.
    Both of them will be our OFers in 2010. We don’t need 34 yr old Reed Johnson and his balky back problems. We already have a RH OFer in Hoffman. What was the point of taking Hoffman in the rule 5 if you are just going to replace him with an older, more expensive version in Reed Johnson?
    ———————————————————–

    after this post if have a son, may name him David. 100%

  234. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2009 at 5:32 pm

    Feller is one of the very few old time players that doesn’t insist that players of his era were better than todays. His only point on that is much like Jim Kaat’s. He doesn’t think that pitchers throw enough. He’s well spoken and holds zero grudges about the 4 years lost in WWII. I had the good fortune to get to hear him speak and meet him back in 1962, right after his HOF induction when he was visiting American Legion posts to promote Legion ball and the need for a strong military. He’s still quite a force in helping indigent former players. He had traveling all star teams that played against travelling black teams with even splits on the gates. As long as baseball had owners and GMs like George Weiss and Tom Yawkey, no player was ever going to help break the color line.

  235. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 25th, 2009 at 5:35 pm

    “My observation is rooted in more of his view of where the game has gone. I often find myself yearning for a more nostalgic view of the game, but not in the sense that I believe the previous way the game was played was the best brand of baseball in every aspect. This is how I have often interpreted Feller. I certainly could be wrong and I apologize for my convoluted way of saying this”
    ——————————————————
    cool, Joe. Enjoyed the posts today

  236. Yanks 1923 December 25th, 2009 at 5:36 pm

    Didn’t we try to assemble this all-star team from 04-08 with 9 mashers, and using every position basically as a DH? Didn’t everyone cringe when a ball was hit to Damon? We saw how dramatically the infield defense improved with Tex. Now we will see first hand how dramatically the OF defense will improve with Gardy and Grandy.

    Time to get younger and better defensively. We have more than enough offense.

  237. joeman December 25th, 2009 at 5:38 pm

    package joba and Gardner & lets see what kind of LFer they can get for them

    ——————–

  238. Joe Vogel December 25th, 2009 at 5:38 pm

    Hey Vinny:

    I gotta get off my butt and go workout but before I go, I was wondering what part of Jersey you’re from?

  239. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2009 at 5:39 pm

    pete
    December 25th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
    green beret: Jett Hoffner = Brett Gardner + Jamie Hoffman…if you had actually bothered to read what I wrote, I’m fairly certain that even you could have figured that out. Jamie Hoffman was rated the best defensive outfielder in the yankees system by baseball america, so i’m willing to bet that he’d be a solid defensive LF. As for gardner, he had a UZR/150 (I know it’s hard to rely on uzr/150 and projection stats like that, but he didn’t play enough to get much info out of his still sterling +7 UZR) of +15 in center, so I wouldn’t be all that surprised by a ~+20 in left…and this site seeeriously needs a reply function

    ————————————————————

    I read it and it’s still hogwash. As for Hoffman, until proves that he can hit better than Ransom, he isn’t some sure bet to do anything. I’ll wait until I see him play and make sure that he isn’t the second coming of Ross Moschitto. He’s proved zero, yet.

  240. mick December 25th, 2009 at 5:39 pm

    oe Vogel December 25th, 2009 at 4:23 pm

    Mick:

    I doubt that you’re the kind of person that I would try to impress.
    ============================================================
    Right. A Happy Holiday to you too, friend.

  241. Betsy - high on pie December 25th, 2009 at 5:45 pm

    Cashman is not perfectly ok with Gardner in LF no matter what you say, David. He’s not THAT young and he’s not explosive. People have already detailed his adventures on the basepaths. I agree with the poster who said he’s a track star….Also, there is no need for you to be so condescending. You people? How rude is that? If you want to think Cashman is fine with Brett as a starter because his luck so far has held out (no Damon or Melky), go right ahead. There’s plenty of off-season left and I will wager anything that Gardner will be riding pine when the season starts.

  242. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 25th, 2009 at 5:45 pm

    “Feller is one of the very few old time players that doesn’t insist that players of his era were better than todays. His only point on that is much like Jim Kaat’s. He doesn’t think that pitchers throw enough. He’s well spoken and holds zero grudges about the 4 years lost in WWII. I had the good fortune to get to hear him speak and meet him back in 1962, right after his HOF induction when he was visiting American Legion posts to promote Legion ball and the need for a strong military. He’s still quite a force in helping indigent former players. He had traveling all star teams that played against travelling black teams with even splits on the gates. As long as baseball had owners and GMs like George Weiss and Tom Yawkey, no player was ever going to help break the color line”
    ——————————————————

    viewing the homemade movie footage of Feller in the Ken Burns series, a 17 year old Feller is the most beautiful baseball player have ever seen. Know this may come off as gay, however i mean it in context of purity. A pureness. Now you see him at age 90, and it is a reminder of how cruel life is (ie aging process). This said, Feller looks a picture of health for 90. I love his outspokeneness. Am in awe, that you met him

  243. Betsy - high on pie December 25th, 2009 at 5:46 pm

    Wow – Hoffman was not even protected by the Dodgers and he’s going to be a good player for the Yankees? He sounds interesting and Cash seems to like him, but he’s a project – please.

  244. hank hal December 25th, 2009 at 5:46 pm

    package joba and Gardner & lets see what kind of LFer they can get for them

    ————–

    best idea i’ve heard all day

    any names though?

  245. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 25th, 2009 at 5:47 pm

    “I gotta get off my butt and go workout but before I go, I was wondering what part of Jersey you’re from?”
    ——————————————————
    Joe: i live in Wappingers Falls/dutchess county. 70 miles north of manhattan

  246. mick December 25th, 2009 at 5:49 pm

    Met Feller in a shopping mall in Fla.
    He signed the back of an autograph card my father-in-law carried around.
    The card was none other than Babe Ruth.

  247. pete December 25th, 2009 at 5:49 pm

    Green Beret: Why is it hogwash? Yes he’s proved nothing in terms of hitting ability at the major league level, and gardner has proved little. But if the two provided REPLACEMENT LEVEL offense, they would still contribute a WAR pushing +2 (damon had +3 last year) based on defense alone. Again, that’s replacement level, as in AAA-average. Both of them are above average AAA hitters. Now factor in speed and you’ll find that the total offensive contribution from these two is likely to be at or close to league average (1 WAR). If Gardner improves any more and/or Hoffmann hits for any power, and you’ll have a combined speed-adjusted wRC+ above 100, guaranteed. I’m going to go out on a non-limb and say that Hoffner will add between 1 and 1.5 WAR of offense next year. Throw in the 1.5-2 WAR of defense, and you’ve got a total WAR of between 2.5 and 3. I’ll take that from my #9 hitter every day of the week and twice on sundays.

  248. Joe Vogel December 25th, 2009 at 5:49 pm

    Vinny:

    During the mid-’30′s he was still playing town ball travelling from small town to small town (he also played for Van Meter High). My grandfather got to see him in our hometown of Churdan.
    One of his teammates was also from Iowa, 1B Hal Trosky from Norway, IA. Chronic headaches sidelined what was turning out to be a HOF career.

  249. Matt in CA December 25th, 2009 at 5:51 pm

    Cashman is not perfectly ok with Gardner in LF no matter what you say, David. He’s not THAT young and he’s not explosive. People have already detailed his adventures on the basepaths. I agree with the poster who said he’s a track star….Also, there is no need for you to be so condescending. You people? How rude is that? If you want to think Cashman is fine with Brett as a starter because his luck so far has held out (no Damon or Melky), go right ahead. There’s plenty of off-season left and I will wager anything that Gardner will be riding pine when the season starts.

    ———————

    Actually, reading that post— it sounded like something written by you, with all the proclamations as if they are facts. “Cash has no interest in…” “Forget (insert name), we’re not getting him….”.

    “Cashman is not perfectly ok with Gardner in LF no matter what you say, David.”

    How do you know he isin’t?

    Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black.

  250. Joe Vogel December 25th, 2009 at 5:52 pm

    Joe: i live in Wappingers Falls/dutchess county. 70 miles north of manhattan

    Thanks Vinny. I’ll have to go through it the next time I’m out East. Have you ever picked your toes in Poughkeepsie?

  251. Yanks 274 December 25th, 2009 at 5:53 pm

    “Cashman is not perfectly ok with Gardner in LF no matter what you say, David.”

    Didn’t you start your rant with the exact same “proclamation” that you scorned that guy for having?

    hm…

  252. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 25th, 2009 at 5:54 pm

    “Vinny: During the mid-’30’s he was still playing town ball travelling from small town to small town (he also played for Van Meter High). My grandfather got to see him in our hometown of Churdan.
    One of his teammates was also from Iowa, 1B Hal Trosky from Norway, IA. Chronic headaches sidelined what was turning out to be a HOF career:
    —————————————————
    kewl. The above image is an attractive one. A wonderful time/place to have lived. Btw, didn’t clarify upstate NY (not jersey)

  253. crawdaddy December 25th, 2009 at 5:55 pm

    “Wow – Hoffman was not even protected by the Dodgers and he’s going to be a good player for the Yankees? He sounds interesting and Cash seems to like him, but he’s a project – please.”

    Betsy,

    I agree with you about Hoffman being a long shot at best. However, I think Gardner could be a better player than you’re giving him credit for, but he has to be used properly which probably means a right-handed LF to platoon with him. I still think that player is Reed Johnson, but until we know whether Cashman is again playing possum or not this time with Holliday instead of Teixiera, we just have to wait until Cashman reveals his hand in the next couple of weeks.

  254. BC Eagle December 25th, 2009 at 5:55 pm

    Betsy – You’ve said numerous times that there is no way Damon is coming back and that we’re definitely not interested in Holliday and a “rose is a rose”. How do you know those things to be facts? Is that any less irrational than thinking Gardner is definitely going to be a starter?

  255. mick December 25th, 2009 at 5:56 pm

    Actually, reading that post— it sounded like something written by you, with all the proclamations as if they are facts. “Cash has no interest in…” “Forget (insert name), we’re not getting him….”.

    “Cashman is not perfectly ok with Gardner in LF no matter what you say, David.”

    How do you know he isin’t?

    Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black.
    =================================================
    That was actually pretty mild for Betsy.
    Its called , having an opinion, what’s yours?

  256. Betsy - high on pie December 25th, 2009 at 5:58 pm

    LOL that’s a great defense of David – who takes to scolding posters who disagree with him by calling them “you people”. That bugs me – who is he to talk down to people like that? We’re not 5 years old and he’s not our parent.

  257. CR9 December 25th, 2009 at 5:59 pm

    Rose
    I am not making excuses. Duncan was wrong. I point out that it was within a baseball play, as a means of contrast to what Gomes did. Duncan acted during a baseball play like many before him and many who will in the future. It does not make any less wrong, but that is just how it is. What Gomes did was not within a baseball play, was more violent, and could have resulted in far greater injuries.

    I also do not equate dirty slides with throwing at someone’s head. I was merely using that as another comparison to show that while Duncan may have a committed a dirty act, throwing at someone’s head intentionally is an egregious act and possibly even criminal.

    Going to have to disagree with you on Joba/Josh, Joba has never hit Youkilis. Josh Beckett, being the bully he is, threw at Abreu only a few days after the Angels tragically lost their teammate. Josh Beckett also nearly ended Marco Scutaro’s career with his drill shot right to Scutaro’s skull. If Joba has actually come close to or hit someone in the head, please refresh my memory.

  258. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 25th, 2009 at 5:59 pm

    “Thanks Vinny. I’ll have to go through it the next time I’m out East. Have you ever picked your toes in Poughkeepsie?”
    —————————————————–
    yes. I work in Poughkeepsie. Not a bad place at all. Wappingers is next door. 5 miles south, on Route 9

  259. REZ December 25th, 2009 at 6:00 pm

    At this point, it would be wishful thinking to say that Gardner is NOT going to be starting. A platoon looks like the most realistic scenario.

    Sure, Holliday could come. Damon could crawl back. Cashman could decide to sign a mediocre guy like Byrd to a multi-year deal, or go against his “defense” manta and sign Dye or Vlad.

    But if you want to deal with reality, a platoon led by Gardner looks like the most likely solution. I hope not, but thats what it looks like. I still want DeRosa, but I doubt Cashman matches SF’s offer.

  260. mick December 25th, 2009 at 6:01 pm

    Man, the quality of xmas posters is pretty low. I’ll have to remember next year to stay out of here.

    Maybe I’ll sit under the mango tree…

  261. Betsy - high on pie December 25th, 2009 at 6:03 pm

    Craw, that’s the thing. I don’t buy that Gardner isn’t being used right; I just don’t think he’s a good player at all. I really don’t see him as having much potential. IMO, people see his speed and think he should be better than he is. It’s not easy to hit a baseball; in fact, it’s probably the hardest thing to do in sports. IMO, Brett Gardner is not a good hitter. For some reason (esp. on NYYFans), people think that it’s just a matter of changing his batting style. Why don’t other hitters that are supposedly “bad” get the same leeway?

  262. CR9 December 25th, 2009 at 6:05 pm

    mick
    Be sure to say high to Pedro and thank him for his performances in the 2009 WS. Also, tell him your name is Karim Garcia.

  263. mick December 25th, 2009 at 6:06 pm

    Talk about NY being a tough town.

    Down by 19, LA fans are booing their World Champion Lakers.

  264. Eric December 25th, 2009 at 6:07 pm

    “Man, the quality of xmas posters is pretty low. I’ll have to remember next year to stay out of here.”

    Seems like any other day to me. Bickering goes on 24\7.

  265. mick December 25th, 2009 at 6:07 pm

    cr9

    I will say “high” to Pedro and tell him you say hi too.

  266. Betsy - high on pie December 25th, 2009 at 6:07 pm

    BC Eagle, good points. I will try to be less declarative in my statements. The post I responded to was incredibly rude and condescending…and yes, he talked as if he knows what’s going on in Cashman’s mind.

    Let me amend my comments. In my opinion, I don’t believe Cashman thinks of Gardner as a starter. Now maybe he will go into the season with BG in LF – but if he does, I think that will be more of an indication that he was unhappy with the other options than that he was happy with Gardner. My basic point still stands. Right now, BG is the last man standing with Damon and Melky gone; it’s not like the Yankees purposely didn’t re-sign the former or traded the latter so they could give BG a shot. Damon priced himself out of the Yankees plans and Melky was a piece to get a good pitcher.

  267. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2009 at 6:08 pm

    vinny-b (NJ and Granderson – thank you Cashman!)
    December 25th, 2009 at 5:45 pm
    “Feller is one of the very few old time players that doesn’t insist that players of his era were better than todays. His only point on that is much like Jim Kaat’s. He doesn’t think that pitchers throw enough. He’s well spoken and holds zero grudges about the 4 years lost in WWII. I had the good fortune to get to hear him speak and meet him back in 1962, right after his HOF induction when he was visiting American Legion posts to promote Legion ball and the need for a strong military. He’s still quite a force in helping indigent former players. He had traveling all star teams that played against travelling black teams with even splits on the gates. As long as baseball had owners and GMs like George Weiss and Tom Yawkey, no player was ever going to help break the color line”
    ——————————————————

    viewing the homemade movie footage of Feller in the Ken Burns series, a 17 year old Feller is the most beautiful baseball player have ever seen. Know this may come off as gay, however i mean it in context of purity. A pureness. Now you see him at age 90, and it is a reminder of how cruel life is (ie aging process). This said, Feller looks a picture of health for 90. I love his outspokeneness. Am in awe, that you met him

    ————————————————————

    Watching clips of Feller’s games reminds me so much of Sandy Koufax in their deliveries and overall style…from the opposite side. Two of the most perfect mechanics that I’ve ever seem. Jim Palmer had a lot of that, too. Can you imagine a 17 year old kid coming up today and striking out 15 batters in his first ML game, 18 strikeouts 3 weeks later and then leaving to return to finish high school? This country would go crazy.

  268. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 25th, 2009 at 6:08 pm

    “Also, tell him your name is Karim Garcia”
    ————————————————–

    who the hell is Karim Garcia ?

    (had to)

  269. mick December 25th, 2009 at 6:08 pm

    Eric December 25th, 2009 at 6:07 pm

    “Man, the quality of xmas posters is pretty low. I’ll have to remember next year to stay out of here.”

    Seems like any other day to me. Bickering goes on 24\7.
    ———————————————————
    But not on xmas, cmon eric.

  270. crawdaddy December 25th, 2009 at 6:09 pm

    “Craw, that’s the thing. I don’t buy that Gardner isn’t being used right; I just don’t think he’s a good player at all. I really don’t see him as having much potential. IMO, people see his speed and think he should be better than he is. It’s not easy to hit a baseball; in fact, it’s probably the hardest thing to do in sports. IMO, Brett Gardner is not a good hitter. For some reason (esp. on NYYFans), people think that it’s just a matter of changing his batting style. Why don’t other hitters that are supposedly “bad” get the same leeway?”

    Betsy,

    Then we have to agree to disagree and have to wait on Gardner to prove you right or wrong about him. As a Yankee fan I hope you’re wrong.

  271. mick December 25th, 2009 at 6:11 pm

    Let me amend my comments. In my opinion, I don’t believe Cashman thinks of Gardner as a starter. Now maybe he will go into the season with BG in LF – but if he does, I think that will be more of an indication that he was unhappy with the other options than that he was happy with Gardner. My basic point still stands. Right now, BG is the last man standing with Damon and Melky gone; it’s not like the Yankees purposely didn’t re-sign the former or traded the latter so they could give BG a shot. Damon priced himself out of the Yankees plans and Melky was a piece to get a good pitcher.
    ========================================================

    Is that really you Betsy. How diplomatic you have become.

  272. Betsy - high on pie December 25th, 2009 at 6:11 pm

    Craw, I hope I am too…….What is baseball without a few good disagreements? I hope Gardner does well – he’s a nice kid.

  273. mick December 25th, 2009 at 6:14 pm

    Mango tree oh so pretty
    And the mango, oh so sweet
    When I sit under the mango
    It’s Karim I want to heet.

  274. Nick in SF in Charlotte, NC December 25th, 2009 at 6:15 pm

    “Man, the quality of xmas posters is pretty low.”

    The fault, dear mick, lies not in our stars but in ourselves.

    Or maybe it’s the filters.

  275. Betsy - high on pie December 25th, 2009 at 6:15 pm

    Mick, I hate getting into tiffs and I think BC Eagle made good points……..I will also say that I have no clue what LF will end up looking like. The FA out there are mediocre (assuming no HOlliday) and trades are unlikely due to the farm already being somewhat depleted. I said it before, though – it’s a nice feeling to be able to trust your GM. I trust Cash will find a solution.

    Well, soon I’ll be off to my Indian/Thai/Chinese place…..I hope it lives up to its reviews, lol

  276. mick December 25th, 2009 at 6:17 pm

    Indian/Thai/Chinese…sounds kind of schizo to me…Why no Jewish too?

  277. mick December 25th, 2009 at 6:19 pm

    betsy, no…tiffs are not your style…you are more refined than yet…tell it like it is

  278. mick December 25th, 2009 at 6:21 pm

    BC Eagle December 25th, 2009 at 5:55 pm

    Betsy – You’ve said numerous times that there is no way Damon is coming back and that we’re definitely not interested in Holliday and a “rose is a rose”. How do you know those things to be facts? Is that any less irrational than thinking Gardner is definitely going to be a starter?
    ==========================================================
    These are called Opinions. In here, they are quite common.

  279. Fran (the original) and OPPC member December 25th, 2009 at 6:22 pm

    Betsy,

    Looking forward to the review :)

  280. mick December 25th, 2009 at 6:22 pm

    I remember a time, as you all do, when we had a major platoon system in LF and we won a WS.

  281. Betsy - high on pie December 25th, 2009 at 6:27 pm

    I’m not sure there are many Jewish people in India/Thailand or China, Mick,lol. According to the review I printed out, generations ago, many Chinese immigrated to India…….and they eventually started cooking their native food incorporating Indian ingredients. They’re called Hakka Chinese……..The owners and chef are apparently from Nepal. I suspect it’s going to be crowded tonight, but oh well, lol

    Fran, I will post a review when I get back!

  282. mick December 25th, 2009 at 6:30 pm

    nuevo thread or =================> for those who dont know spanish

  283. joeman December 25th, 2009 at 6:44 pm

    the only way Gardner can get on 1st base is if he steals it, he won’t bunt(as often as he should) he won’t take a walk & he can’t hit. His D is average,with a very average arm…

  284. Brad S77 December 25th, 2009 at 7:40 pm

    A player I would love to see the Yankees acquire for LF would be David DeJesus from KC. Send them Gaudin and Hoffman and maybe McAllister or some other prospects. DeJesus was tright behind Crawford as a superior defensive LFer, had an insane OBP the second half of last year, and is a very good ball player at a low salary.

    I would even be willing to trade Gardener in that deal.

    If not that, I would be happy with Reed Johnson platooning with Gardner.

  285. EricNS December 25th, 2009 at 8:03 pm

    Sam – enjoy your “Jewish Christmas aka Chinese food and a movie!!”

  286. tom tresh 15 December 25th, 2009 at 8:11 pm

    Nick in SF,

    Sorry for not answering sooner. I am just outside of Charlotte, in a small crossroads town of Midland. If you are interested google Reed Gold Mine. That is the area I live in

  287. Lu Inoa December 25th, 2009 at 9:20 pm

    It seems as if the Yankees are in the mood of bringing back folks who have played for them before- I think they might want to take a look at Marcus Thames. I righty bat with some pop, who could platoon with Gardner.

    I would like to get Gardy some AB’s this year- I like what he brings to the table but getting someone who could spell vs. lefties would make sense.

  288. joe December 26th, 2009 at 12:53 am

    I think Gardner would be a lot better with his bat if given a chance. I mean his defense will be good whether in CF or LF with his speed. Plus he can make things happen when he is on base.

  289. tnjoe December 26th, 2009 at 12:57 am

    Girardi needs to use Gardner more and I think he will be a plus for the Yankees.

  290. KC Fan in PA December 26th, 2009 at 7:39 am

    I agree with Brad S77 regarding David DeJesus from KC. He would be a great fit in NY. He is signed for next year at $4.7 million and has a $6M option for 2011. He is a former CF which has moved to LF. He is an excellent defensive player with a little pop in his bat. Get him out of KC and I can see him hitting 15-20 HR.

    I think KC would like to get Gardner to play CF for them. It is a huge OF and requires someone with his speed to cover the gaps (aka Willie Wilson). I think it would take another prospect from the Yankees to get it done, but DeJesus would be a great addition to your team.

    KC has a rich heritage for developing outstanding OF and having them move on to accomplish even more… Damon, Beltran, Dye, etc. Trust me, DeJesus should fit right in.

  291. jimc December 26th, 2009 at 9:49 am

    jonny gomes? how could anyone think that he could be on a yankee short list for left? come on.

  292. NJ Steve December 26th, 2009 at 10:33 am

    The folks talking about how Grander can’t hit and Gardner’s is just a track star with no instincts NEED to look at the stats. yes, I believe his instincts are not great, but he is so fast that he still is VERY effective. Regardless of the times he was not able to steal or the times he was caught; he stole 26 times and was only caught 5 times; that is valuable! Also, how does it impact the pitcher and the pitches the guys behind him face? People say he can’t hit, but his OPS was .724, while weak, that blows away what Granderson is against lefties, but everyone says “he is an every day player and has to play” WHY? Why in the world would you want any player to be in the lineup when he is bad at what he does? If you don’t believe in the matchup game, you really don’t understand the game. Can it be overdone, sure, but it is VERY valuable. the idea of a manager is to put the team in the best position to get players out or for your own players to get hits and the matchup games is a huge part of that.

    Let me reference how useless Ryan Howard was in key spots against the Yankees last year. Do you want to know why? it is because he can be neutralized against lefties and he is exactly like Granderson, a GREAT player against righties who should not be starting against lefties PERIOD. This every day player stuff is BS, why play a guy who is not good against a side. This isn’t rocket science folks, if a player hits “lefties” better than another player AND plays better defense than the other person AND when they get on base they create more issues for the opposition then the better hitting, better defending and better base runner should start? (Granderson and Gardner) How can you disagree with that? Even if the option isn’t great, you must agree with that.

    Do people really think Granderson will automatically find some epiphany and become a valuable hitter against lefties? I hope he can become more valuable than useless (his present state), but the odds of him getting his OPS above .700 are very small; in fact, Gardner has a much better chance of being Jacoby Ellsbury than of Granderson becoming a decent hitter against lefties. Just for the record, in 2008 Jacoby had an OPS of .729 and last year it moved to .770 and he is the same age as Gardner but has been give a chance. It is not unreasonable that Gardner could see an increase in OPS as well, in fact, when he was given a chance earlier in the year to play more his OPS was .757 for the first half of the year. In the first half he played somewhat regularly and had 188 AB’s. GIVE HIM A CHANCE; HE IS ONLY ONE YEAR BEHIND ELLSBURY AND HIS NUMBERS SUGGEST A SIMILAR PATH AS JACOBY.

  293. trent December 26th, 2009 at 11:08 am

    I don’t think Cashman would have traded Melky if he wasn’t high on Gardner’s abilities. Other than Matsui, the Yanks haven’t had a star in left in years. The current options available are not that much better than Gardner. I say give him a chance. We already know he can play and play well. The players being discussed in this post are no longer developing. They have already reached mediocrity. I really don’t think we are looking for a left fielder, but we do need a bench player with the ability to play outfield and infield. I like Hairston. After that, start filling AAA with role players and please start playing Miranda in left field. Knowing another position would make Miranda more valuable to the parent club. By the the way, I’ll bet Colin Curtis could come up and put up the same OPS as a Reed Johnson or Johnny Gomes.

  294. NJ Steve December 26th, 2009 at 11:34 am

    Trent, I agree. The Yankees do need another OF though as we have little depth right now especially when we know that both Gardner and Granderson may have to be pinch hit (platooneed) for if we are behind in a big spot with a lefty on the mound.

  295. NJ Steve December 26th, 2009 at 11:39 am

    Betsy, you are down on Gardner who has had almost no chance at the major league level yet in those limited opportunities has been better than Granderson against lefties and you are willing to say Gardner isn’t the option against lefties, but you will throw Granderson out there against lefties as a better option? Please explain?

    This is the same thought others have trumpeted yet nobody has been able to come up with one logical reason why Granderson should play over Gardner against a lefty? Gardner covers more ground, has a higher OPS and once on base causes more issues for the opponents. So please give me a logical explanation other than “Granderson was brought here to platoon”

  296. NJ Steve December 26th, 2009 at 11:39 am

    Betsy, you are down on Gardner who has had almost no chance at the major league level yet in those limited opportunities has been better than Granderson against lefties and you are willing to say Gardner isn’t the option against lefties, but you will throw Granderson out there against lefties as a better option? Please explain?

    This is the same thought others have trumpeted yet nobody has been able to come up with one logical reason why Granderson should play over Gardner against a lefty? Gardner covers more ground, has a higher OPS and once on base causes more issues for the opponents. So please give me a logical explanation other than “Granderson was brought here to platoon”

  297. CommerceComet December 26th, 2009 at 12:04 pm

    I suggested a trade for DeJesus last year when the Yankees were facing a season with Cabrera/Gardner in CF. I think such a trade is even more critical when the portion of the platoon best suited as the everyday player has been traded.

    Some package of Gardner, Gaudin, Mitre, prospects, and/or cash could pry DeJesus loose from the Royals. DeJesus is not going to be a key piece of the Royals’ rebuild and thus should be available at the right price.

    Replacing the PR and defensive skills portion of Gardner’s game shouldn’t be that daunting a task.

  298. Sally December 26th, 2009 at 1:00 pm

    I say if we want a bargain pick up Reed Johnson, if not,bring Johnny Damon back.

  299. Trent December 26th, 2009 at 4:55 pm

    Commerce Comet,

    I’m not so sure that Gardner, Gaudin and Mitre are what KC is looking for in a rebuild project. You did mention prospects as well, but why exactly, would you be willing to trade so much for DeJesus? I’d be willing to give up Mitre, but not the other two. You don’t create depth by trading one outfielder for another when all you have to back them up is Hoffman. As far as Gaudin is concerned, I think he is underrated. He could start for many teams, is only 28 and strikes people out. He is a diamond in the rough I think.

  300. CommerceComet December 26th, 2009 at 9:19 pm

    Trent,

    I said a package involving those guys and/or cash. I’m not saying that we offer all those guys, only that those guys would be those available to put into the package. Each of those guys in some way are surplus.

    Actually, I think that Gaudin would be the most attractive element to the Royals for all the reasons you mentioned. Gardner would probably be the next most attractive as they would need to replace DeJesus.

    Would I trade Gaudin for DeJesus? Yes. A starting LF who is under club control for two seasons at a reasonable cost would be more valuable than a long-man/5th starter type.

    Would I trade Gardner for DeJesus? Yes. Getting another reserve OF is easier than get a starting LF. The Yankees would lose Gardner’s speed but another reserve OF is likely to be a better hitter and undoubtably with more power.

  301. Bernie December 27th, 2009 at 1:17 am

    The perfect fit for a 2 yr LF’er is Randy Winn. Only drawback is salary. This guy is outstanding at all 3 outfield positions, great arm, speed, hits for average, no HR power, base stealer, switch hitter. Reminds me of Mickey Rivers but better. He’s actually a better CF’er than Granderson and defintely better than Swisher. Get him NOW ……

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