Tucker, Irish, thanks for the kudos fellas… and I agree with Tucker, that if we had two slots in the starting rotation available, I would give both a shot at starting in 2010. That said, with only one starting role open, the debate isn’t who is over or underrated… it’s who is best built for the rotation vs the pen. I believe the data supports Joba for the rotation and Phil for the 8th inning.

Pat M immediately responded back to my post yesterday with throwing Hughes’ minor league scouting report at me. In my original post, I referenced the fact that regardless of what his scouting report says, Hughes has been a two pitch pitcher in the majors. I have a friend that always refers to the Hughes scouting report… and it really doesn’t mean much at this point. His minor league scouting report also says that he throws 97+ as a starter. Wrong.

For Betsy, I never said that Hughes had a ton of starts under his belt (he has 28 starts by the way), so I don’t understand where that rebuke came from. And I’m not relegating Hughes to the pen based on anything other than a comparison to Joba’s current arsenal. Certainly, Phil may develop his changeup in the future (as you say) and I hope he does. I mean, I hope the guy turns into Bob Gibson. I wish we had two spots open in the rotation, so we could give both of them a chance to start and develop. But we do not… we have one spot. I would give that spot to Joba, because he has demonstrated an ability and willingness to feature a fuller pitch mix.

For Pat M, Blake, Rich and other folks that mention Phil’s minor league scouting report, high school performance or evolving cutter: Folks, I want Phil to succeed as much as anyone. But his PitchFx stats support my original post: Over his career, Hughes has thrown 66% four seam fastballs (straight fastball) and 23% curve balls. Therefore, 90% of the time, Phil is throwing either a fastball or curve. the remaining 10% is comprised of cutters, sliders and lastly changeups. That 90%/10% split is consistent with major league relievers. No to mention that his third favorite pitch (5% cutters) is a slight variation on a fastball.

In response to Jerkface (love that name by the way), you are wrong about Hughes’ fastball. With only 4.5 inches of break (hardballtimes.com analysis), Hughes’ fastball movement is a full inch below league average. Therefore, the Phil Hughes fastball is indeed straighter than average. Compound that with Phil’s below average control (walks per inning) and lack of a third pitch… not a good combo for a starter.

Again, if we had two starting spots available, I’d give them both a shot. I don’t care who is or isn’t over/under rated. What we all should care about is that Joba’s pitch mix is more varied (and evolving faster) than Phil’s. And therefore, based purely on having one slot in the rotation available, it should go to Joba.

By the way… even though it would be nice to give both Joba and Phil a shot at starting, I really do like the Vazquez signing. A number 4 starter that will eat 200+ innings is awesome! Go Yanks!

- Josh from brooklyn

3. Hughes’ velocity goes from dominant in the bullpen to mediocre as a starter and his fastball is straight as an arrow.

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Hughes and Chamberlain were very efficient pitchers in the minors.

Hughes fastball is not straight. Chamberlain’s is straight, its the speed that makes up for it.

1. I don’t think it’s any secret that both Joba and Hughes are prone to injury. Joba’s body and violent delivery are definitely bullpen markers and Hughes has already had numerous injuries including tired arms, leg injuries and he even broke a rib throwing a baseball.

2.Neither is an efficient pitcher. I know that they’re both young, but neither have adjusted to pitch counts well.

3. Hughes’ velocity goes from dominant in the bullpen to mediocre as a starter and his fastball is straight as an arrow.

As others have stated in this thread, Joba should be in the rotation with no restrictions. Let him show what he really has. Those of us who have followed his career and watched him pitch some truly excellent games believe he should be in the rotation.

Not only did Wang’s injury impact the Yankee rotation losing a #2, but it also impacted Joba’s growth. Joba could have blissfully pitched out of the #5 slot and got his innings in early.

Another factor impacting Joba’s W-L record in 2009 was that many times when he was pitching there were several subs in the line up. I thought he did well to average about 3 runs in his time allotted on the mound. I foresee the same factor in 2010 but Joba is a stronger pitcher and will have no IP limit.

Someone also said that pitchers are creatures of habit and last year’s Joba Rules did nothing to foster that every 5th day getting the ball habit.

I dread the outcome of ST. One of the other will have to go to the pen which in most eyes is just a plain demotion and is not conducive to SP development for either pitcher.

I know you were joking about Joba or Phil being converted to catchers.

Joba was a catcher in HS before being converted to a pitcher, I believe in his junior year.

LOL!!!

Do we really need a dominant setup guy to make it through 3/4 of the regular season?

Robertson needs to show up.

And I thank you for that.

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You’re most welcome, Doreen.

I’ve been waiting for years to use the word “strumpet” on a Yankee baseball board.