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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


A familiar face is still out there waiting

Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Dec 28, 2009 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The Yankees non-tendered Chien-Ming Wang in early December and it was widely assumed by most baseball officials that the move would be the end of Wang’s tenure in pinstripes. At this point, that is still the most likely scenario.

There is a chance though, however small, that Wang could end up back in New York. Grace, a friend of the blog’s in Taiwan who often checks in with updates on Wang, recently emailed to say that Wang said publicly in Taiwan that there were no hard feelings on his side about being non-tendered.

Of course, it’s possible that a) he was just saying that publicly; and b) that any hard feelings he has have more to do with the way the Yankees handled his arbitration process a few years back. Either way, it’s interesting that Wang is at least leaving the door slightly open to a return.

Are the Yankees interested? They might be, on the right terms. According to Grace, Wang told the media in Taiwan that he started long-tossing on Dec. 1 and will return to America this week before seeing Dr. James Andrews on Jan. 4. He hopes to be able to get into rehab games in April or May, meaning he likely wouldn’t be major-league ready until near June (at least).

My bet is still that Wang ends up signing elsewhere, but you never say never, especially with the Yankees. We know that Brian Cashman loves rotation depth. On an incentive-laden, minor-league deal, maybe Wang could have a second act with the Yankees after all?

 
 

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214 Responses to “A familiar face is still out there waiting”

  1. Ed in PR December 28th, 2009 at 8:46 am

    I hope so. CMW has been one of my favorite Yanks.

  2. ditmars1929 December 28th, 2009 at 8:47 am

    I’d love to see him back.

  3. Carl December 28th, 2009 at 8:48 am

    I think he will be back

  4. GeorgeInJax December 28th, 2009 at 8:48 am

    I like CMW a lot. Especially since he gets a lot of groundball outs. He might be worth a look at in June.
    If the rotation is healthy & producing could he be considered for long relief?

  5. KennyH123 December 28th, 2009 at 8:51 am

    Wang was a bit of an enigma to begin with. He was an extreme contact pitcher who depended entirely on a very hard sinking fastball to get hitters to beat the ball into the ground. There is really nothing else in his repertoire.

    Without the 95 MPH velocity, Wang’s sinker is much more hittable. Honestly, with 2 shoulder surgeries now, I don’t know if we can expect that velo to ever return. I’d take a shot on him, but it would be for a very heavy incentive laden deal with almost no money guaranteed.

  6. Bret the Hitman December 28th, 2009 at 8:55 am

    Holliday hasn’t taken the Cards offer yet?
    The Yanks haven’t signed a podunk LF from the scrap heap?
    And ‘Lost’ speaks of the lack of communication between Boras and Cashman?

    The silence is deafening…

  7. Six Degrees of Javier Vazquez December 28th, 2009 at 9:02 am

    Who’s gonna play left field?

  8. GeorgeInJax December 28th, 2009 at 9:02 am

    It’s just a consideration, we won’t know until late May/early June whether he can even pitch. If he can get his old velocity back he would be worth adding. I doubt he would cost much at mid season.
    My hope is that we are churning along & don’t need any help in the rotation or the pen at that point, but we don’t live in a perfect predictable world.

  9. Jim M December 28th, 2009 at 9:05 am

    I tend to think Wang returning to the Yankees is a long shot.

    If I were him, I would choose the sign with a team that gives me the best chance to make it back to the majors. On the Yankees, I don’t think that would be the case because I would rank him after Hughes and Chamberlain on the depth chart at this point, because he has the most to prove.

  10. GeorgeInJax December 28th, 2009 at 9:05 am

    Right now LF is Gardner-Hoffman
    Will they be our LF at the start of the season…Probably not.
    Unless there is a big discount on Holliday/Bay, I doubt a deal gets done with him. We will more likely see X Nady or Jerry Hairston back.

  11. TJP December 28th, 2009 at 9:06 am

    If the Yankees do not sign and give their former ace a second chance, that would not be wrong, it would be stupid. A person stating that Eli Whitney invented the transatlantic cable, would be wrong; Cyrus Field did. The Mets trading Nolan Ryan for Jim Fregosi would be stupid. See the difference.

    The Yankees have enough depth in their rotation to give Wang a second-shot, or they run the risk of him pitching to form for someone else. That would be a shame — and stupid.

  12. Dave December 28th, 2009 at 9:08 am

    I’m still a big CMW fan. BRING HIM BACK. Obviously he can’t ask for too much money. If what he’s asking is reasonable, I say give him a chance to return to form. He’s great.

  13. GeorgeInJax December 28th, 2009 at 9:09 am

    I personally think Gardner can do the job in LF.
    He is good defensively.
    On the offensive side, if he improves his OBP just a bit he will be an awesome table setter for the top of the lineup.
    In the 9 hole he wouldn’t be a big run producer, but would score a lot of runs.

  14. dayglo December 28th, 2009 at 9:12 am

    I hate to day it, but CMW would be perfect for the Mets. Any mistake he makes would be caught in that ballpark. I can’t imagine why the Mets wouldn’t go after CMW (and Shelly Duncan for that matter).

    They both can handle NY and have to be better that what the Mets have now. Would even make me root for them (a little)

  15. GeorgeInJax December 28th, 2009 at 9:13 am

    I don’t know much about Hoffman, but he wouldn’t have been picked up in the rule 5 unless he could contribute.

  16. 86w183 December 28th, 2009 at 9:15 am

    You have to see what’s left of his arm before just tossing a million or so up in the air and hoping it does some good. THAT would be stupid.

    If I were advising Wang I would definitely target a team that ideally has excellent infield defense and a big yard to keep balls in play. Seattle would seem to fit the bill.

  17. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 9:15 am

    Bringing this forward from the last subject. Maybe a slight diversion from the usual subjects.

    It’s HOF time and the writers again have their chance to screw up the voting.

    The Veteran’s Committee botched their shot by not selecting Jim Kaat, Tommy John, Gil Hodges and Ron Santo. The Executive Committee is still holding it’s grudge by keeping out Marvin Miller and Charles Finley.

    My top nine choices in order are:

    1. Bert Blyleven
    2. Andre Dawson
    3. Fred McGriff
    4. Dale Murphy
    5. Tim Raines
    6. Lee Smith
    7. Alan Tramell
    8. Dave Parker
    9. Al Oliver

    I don’t think that Roberto Alomar and Barry Larkin are first ballot worthy.

    I’m not ready to commit to Mark McGwire just yet. I’m also ready to consider DH only players for the HOF, like Edgar Martinez and Harold Baines. The problem with that is that it opens up the door for players like David Ortiz.

    Perhaps the boys in charge of the blog can write an article on the candidates and their views on HOF worthiness.

  18. Rich in NJ December 28th, 2009 at 9:17 am

    I have never understood the logic of the comments by Feinsand and others reflecting their reporting that Wang took the arbitration process personally.

    Arbitration has been the primary driver of salary inflation in MLB since it’s inception. Players win even when they lose.

    The critical point is that Wang needs to accept a mL contract so that he can spend the time he needs rebuilding his arm strength and his confidence without the pressure of having to get out ML hitters before he is physically ready.

  19. GeorgeInJax December 28th, 2009 at 9:18 am

    CMW would be a nice pickup for any team if he is back in form. It wouldn’t surprise me if the Dodgers snapped him up. But like everyone else, they have to see him pitch & prove he has his velocity.

    No one is touching Ben Sheets $$ demands until he can prove he can pitch either.

    X Nady has to prove he can throw too.

    That’s the nature of coming off shoulder/arm/elbow injuries.

  20. RhapsodyInBlue December 28th, 2009 at 9:19 am

    Come home Wangster.

  21. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 9:20 am

    Correction:

    I’m not ready to commit to Mark McGwire just yet. I’m also ***NOT*** ready to consider DH only players for the HOF, like Edgar Martinez and Harold Baines. The problem with that is that it opens up the door for players like David Ortiz.

  22. Rich in NJ December 28th, 2009 at 9:21 am

    Nady needs to accept a mL deal with incentives.

  23. jessica lee December 28th, 2009 at 9:23 am

    I don’t think Wang will be back with us. While he says he has no hard feeling toward Yankees because team has his own consideration, He also says he is interested in playing for any team.

    I think he will get a deal similar to Kelvim Escobar gets from Mets.

    I guess he will get a major league deal with base salary at 1-2MM from someone.

  24. John Cerra December 28th, 2009 at 9:23 am

    I have had rotator cuff surgery. CMW has had 2. The pitcher you see in July and August will not be the pitcher you get in 2011. In the second year, his overall level of strength, and thus velocity, will be much better.

    If I am Cashman, I offer a contract that keeps control through the end of 2011.

  25. upstate kate December 28th, 2009 at 9:25 am

    when I saw the title of this article I thought it would be about Johnny Damon, who is also still waiting…

    GB7
    hang in there, no one said it would be easy :)

  26. Mark in Tampa December 28th, 2009 at 9:26 am

    “It’s HOF time and the writers again have their chance to screw up the voting”

    I think Blyleven and Alomar are the most likely to get in. At least, they are the two I would vote for.

    I am always surprised at the total lack of respect that McGriff gets in HOF voting.

    My remembrance of Dawson was primarily that great MVP season with the Cubs. I was very surprised to look at his #s and see how few dominant seasons he actually had. His ’81 season could have been a great year cut short by the strike. If Dawson gets in, I think Bernie would deserve more consideration than he will probably get.

    One problem with HOF voting is that there are a few players who get voted in who should not be there. Because of these mistakes, it makes the omissions of borderline players look that much worse. Ex-if Rice and Puckett, why no Dawson and Mattingly? If Sutton, why no Blyleven, Pettitte, Mussina?

  27. Rich in NJ December 28th, 2009 at 9:28 am

    “I think he will get a deal similar to Kelvim Escobar gets from Mets.”

    I think Escobar got a ML deal. That would be a mistake for Wang.

  28. Bret the Hitman December 28th, 2009 at 9:28 am

    Vazquez instead of Sheets.

    Thank God.

  29. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 9:32 am

    upstate kate
    December 28th, 2009 at 9:25 am
    when I saw the title of this article I thought it would be about Johnny Damon, who is also still waiting…

    GB7
    hang in there, no one said it would be easy

    ————————————————————

    Thanks for the words of encouragement, Kate. Needed that cigarette last night. I was about to become either a serial killer or a cereal killer. I’d end up eating 4 boxes of Super Sugar Crisp.

  30. MTU December 28th, 2009 at 9:34 am

    Greedy:

    Wang on a MiLB contract

    Chapman

    MH- 6/102-108

    Welcome to invincibility.

  31. Bret the Hitman December 28th, 2009 at 9:35 am

    MTU,

    Immortality too :lol:

  32. Tala08 December 28th, 2009 at 9:37 am

    GB7 did you see Jon Heyman’s HOF list?

    From his Twitter yesterday:

    just mailed Hall of Fame ballot, beating deadline yet again. voted for alomar, dawson, larkin, parker, morris & mattingly

  33. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 9:38 am

    MLB-TV is now showing Game #6 of the 1952 WS. It’s another chance to see the legendary skills of Mickey Mantle. Red Barber and Mel allen announcing, the way games should be announced. Yogi Berra is announced by the PA announcer in Brooklyn as Larry Berra.

  34. MTU December 28th, 2009 at 9:39 am

    Holliday news:

    “Matt Holliday’s Best Offer
    By Tim Dierkes [December 28 at 8:33am CST]
    Based on published reports, let’s try to determine the best offer Matt Holliday has received.

    •Tracy Ringolsby, then of the Rocky Mountain News, reported that Holliday rejected a four-year, $82MM extension from the Rockies in the spring of 2008. Ringolsby’s colleague Dave Krieger talked to Holliday about the offer, and learned that it did not include a no-trade clause.
    •ESPN’s Buster Olney reported that the Cardinals’ offer to Holliday this winter guaranteed five years, while Joe Strauss of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch put the salary at $15-16MM. If both reports are accurate, the Cardinals’ best offer could not exceed five years and $80MM.
    •It appears that in terms of total dollars, Holliday’s pre-John Lackey offer from the Red Sox was the best. Boston’s five-year offer was initially pegged at $82.5MM, while today John Tomase of the Boston Herald says it was $85MM.
    •It seems that Holliday’s best offer in terms of yearly salary was $20.5MM from the Rockies before the ’08 season, but the lack of a no-trade clause devalued it. It appears that the Red Sox outdid the Cardinals by a million or two per year, but Boston’s offer is no longer on the table. Perhaps Scott Boras is holding out for a sixth guaranteed year or $18MM per, but with no obvious competition there’s no reason for the Cardinals to raise their offer. The Orioles’ interest waned quickly and the Mets are currently focused on Jason Bay. In Boras’ perfect world Bay would not sign with the Mets, and they’d tangle with the Cards for Holliday. ”

    From MLBTR

  35. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 9:40 am

    Tala08
    December 28th, 2009 at 9:37 am
    GB7 did you see Jon Heyman’s HOF list?

    From his Twitter yesterday:

    just mailed Hall of Fame ballot, beating deadline yet again. voted for alomar, dawson, larkin, parker, morris & mattingly

    ————————————————————

    Interesting choice, but, Morris over Blyleven? Inexcusable.

  36. Doreen - Ain't it Just "Grand"? December 28th, 2009 at 9:45 am

    GB7 -

    Wasn’t Morris the guy who pitched, like 12 innings or something in a playoff/WS game?

  37. Patrick from CT December 28th, 2009 at 9:45 am

    Love to have Wang back but, he’s not likely in the Yankee’s plans.
    The Yankees need some experience on the bench in the form of a RH bat that can platoon with Gary in LF. Bringing back Hairston or Nady (if healthy) on a 1 year deal works for me. Hairston we be perfect because of his ability to play 3rd and provide speed on the bases.

  38. wallypip December 28th, 2009 at 9:49 am

    Atlanta is signing Glaus to play 1B, so that’s one less place for Nady. I would really like to see him back with the Yankees if the Yankees pass on the big names.

  39. Doreen - Ain't it Just "Grand"? December 28th, 2009 at 9:49 am

    I don’t see a place for Wang that would satisfy him. I would love him back, but where? Unless something goes awry, where does he pitch? Next season is something different altogether. But this season? He’d be stuck in AAA, and something tells me Wang can get a better situation elsewhere, sadly.

  40. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 9:49 am

    Doreen – Ain’t it Just “Grand”?
    December 28th, 2009 at 9:45 am
    GB7 -

    Wasn’t Morris the guy who pitched, like 12 innings or something in a playoff/WS game?

    ————————————————————

    I think it was a 10 inning, 1-0 shutout against the Braves. Still can’t pick him because of the one signature game. People will vote for Morris and deride Pettitte’s numbers and ignore Blyleven as a stat complier.

  41. joeman December 28th, 2009 at 9:49 am

    2nd & 3rd with two outs finds hitters like Gardner

  42. Betsy -high on pie December 28th, 2009 at 9:50 am

    I really don’t get why people think the Yankees are lying in wait for Holliday (for his price to go down). The Cards are not going to reduce their offer nor are they going to pull the offer. Therefore, the Yankees would not get him for less than 5/80. Clearly they are not inclined to do this – they just are not that interested in Holliday. If the lack of interest is because of the bulky, expensive contract, I can understand that as we already have enough of those. On the other hand, if they then pursue Carl Crawford (who may not even be available) next year and hand him a big contract, then it’s a huge mistake. Once his legs go, that’s it. Unfortunately, I think the Yankees like him a lot. Holliday is a much better player – I would just sign him. However, I like to deal in reality and the reality is that the Yankees (IMO) are not interested. Silence means just that – silence. It doesn’t mean the Yankees are lurking in the shadows.

  43. ditmars1929 December 28th, 2009 at 9:51 am

    I said earlier that I’d like to see CMW back, but Jim M made a good point in that CMW should look for a team that gives him the best opportunity. I’ve heard his name is mentioned often on the Dodger blogs. The Mets would be crazy not to monitor his progress too.

    GB7, I’d say a player is either a HOFer or not. Not voting for Alomar just because it’s his first time on the ballot is pretty silly.

  44. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 9:52 am

    Wang has a better chance of making a comback by building up his lower body and arm in the minors that a team having to pull him early in the games in the majors. No pressure to do things that he’s not ready to do.

  45. Betsy -high on pie December 28th, 2009 at 9:53 am

    GB, I can’t overlook Morris’ almost 4 ERA either…..

  46. Doreen - Ain't it Just "Grand"? December 28th, 2009 at 9:54 am

    GB7 -

    But I thought Morris was a big game pitcher overall?

    Anyway, I don’t see how anyone can keep Andy Pettitte out of the HOF at this point. Not first ballot, mind you, but I’d say his accomplishments warrant HOF selection.

    Just what the heck is stat compiling, anyway? Is a guy supposed to not do his best because his team is crummy? Is he supposed to stop striking out people because he already has 8 or 9 in the game, or 200 on the season, or whatever? Or stop hitting homeruns because his team is up 10-2? I could go on and on, but you get my drift. I seriously don’t get that “accusation.”

  47. Betsy -high on pie December 28th, 2009 at 9:54 am

    I’m not interested in Nady. 2 TJ surgeries? No thanks – and he wasn’t that good to begin with.

  48. blake December 28th, 2009 at 9:55 am

    Betsy, Cashman may be in fact telling the truth this time but he has said one thing and done another enough times that you at least have to question it. Holliday makes too much sense at the current pricing for them to have crossed him off the list completely at this point. At least that’s what I think..

  49. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 9:56 am

    Gotta love baseball nicknames like George “Shotgun” Shuba, Vic Raschi (The Springfield Rifle) and Allie Reynolds (The Superchief).

  50. Bronx Jeers December 28th, 2009 at 9:56 am

    Chad already said that he’s vote McGuire in if he had the chance. Show Me love?

    Dawson is much closer to the “big” milestones than Bernie.

  51. Doreen - Ain't it Just "Grand"? December 28th, 2009 at 9:58 am

    ditmars1929 -

    I agree with your sentiment that if a guy is a HOF-er, then he is one, and shouldn’t be made to wait because he’s not “worthy” of a first ballot selection.

    But, that’s the way it’s worked (and I don’t see it changing until the “old school” guys are no longer voting). I think it’s silly and a way to wield “power.” As far as I know, once you’re actually in the HOF, they don’t have a separate room for first balloters, do they? :)

  52. Bret the Hitman December 28th, 2009 at 9:58 am

    MTU,

    The moral of the story:

    “the Cardinals’ best offer could not exceed five years and $80MM.”

    And this is point speaks volumes about the silent gridlock between Boras and the Yankees.

    “In Boras’ perfect world Bay would not sign with the Mets, and they’d tangle with the Cards for Holliday. ”

    From MLBTR

    Boras is waiting for an absurd offer from the Mets to use as leverage against the Yankees because right now, the Cards offer is easy to beat without meeting Boras/Holliday’s demands.

    So, Bay needs to sign with the Sox, the Mets need to come out of the word-work with their absurd offer and then after the smoke settles between the Mets and the Cards, the Yankees can strike. All Cashman needs to do is outbid the Cards, assuming Holliday doesn’t want to play for a loser. But Boras needs the Mets offer to drive up the Cards offer and perhaps force the Yankees to pony up a more respectable offer than the initial cards offer.

  53. wallypip December 28th, 2009 at 9:59 am

    Nady could always kill lefties and that is a skill we could use on this team. Other options are Thames and Gomes, but Nady is better than than those guys if he’s healthy.

    I know the Yankees won’t make a move for a fourth outfielder until Holliday, Bay, and Damon are out of the picture, but with NJ’s injury history, Granderson’s splits, and an undetermined LF, a lefty masher is a necessity on this team.

  54. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 10:01 am

    Doreen – Ain’t it Just “Grand”?
    December 28th, 2009 at 9:54 am
    GB7 -

    But I thought Morris was a big game pitcher overall?

    Anyway, I don’t see how anyone can keep Andy Pettitte out of the HOF at this point. Not first ballot, mind you, but I’d say his accomplishments warrant HOF selection.

    Just what the heck is stat compiling, anyway? Is a guy supposed to not do his best because his team is crummy? Is he supposed to stop striking out people because he already has 8 or 9 in the game, or 200 on the season, or whatever? Or stop hitting homeruns because his team is up 10-2? I could go on and on, but you get my drift. I seriously don’t get that “accusation.”

    ————————————————————

    If Morris gets in and over the years, Pettitte is denied with nearly similar numbers or better, writers had better be prepared to explain. It’s much like Catfish Hunter is in, but Luis Tiant isn’t.

    The “stat compiler” is a ridiculous label to hang out there, but, writers do it. They say that longevity is part of the selection and then bang ‘em for putting up numbers.

  55. ditmars1929 December 28th, 2009 at 10:01 am

    Thanks, Doreen. I mean really, who were the idiots who didn’t vote for Tom Seaver, who got something like 98% of the vote on his first ballot? And the fact that JoeD didn’t even get elected the first time is mind boggling.

  56. Rich in NJ December 28th, 2009 at 10:02 am

    “Nady could always kill lefties and that is a skill we could use on this team”

    This team has largely been built around plate discipline and good defense and Nady has neither skill.

  57. MTU December 28th, 2009 at 10:04 am

    Brett-

    Thoughts:

    That’s a provable theory.

    The Yanks options are still open.

    IMO Boras wants a 9 figure contract for MH.

    The Yankees will probably get last right of refusal from SB.

    Holliday is bargain priced.

    All it takes is a phone call and open minds.

    The Yankees have leverage and options.

  58. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 10:06 am

    ditmars1929
    December 28th, 2009 at 9:51 am
    I said earlier that I’d like to see CMW back, but Jim M made a good point in that CMW should look for a team that gives him the best opportunity. I’ve heard his name is mentioned often on the Dodger blogs. The Mets would be crazy not to monitor his progress too.

    GB7, I’d say a player is either a HOFer or not. Not voting for Alomar just because it’s his first time on the ballot is pretty silly.

    ————————————————————

    I didn’t say that alomar wasn’t worthy…I just said that I wouldn’t vote him in on the first ballot when others are more worthy and have waited longer. Nothing is more dispicable than the Ron Santo incident. Santo is one of the best 5 third basemen in history and his numbers dwarf Brooks Robinson’s.

  59. wallypip December 28th, 2009 at 10:08 am

    “This team has largely been built around plate discipline and good defense and Nady has neither skill.”

    Nady is an average defender and has lifetime .308/.383/.471 line against lefties. He, or someone like him, would be a good pickup for a 300-400 AB role.

  60. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 10:10 am

    If Joe DiMaggio can’t make it on the first ballot then voting is screwed up. Still amazing that nobody in history has been a unanimous choice.

  61. Lauren December 28th, 2009 at 10:10 am

    this needs to get done.

    i watched the WS video over the weekend, im REALLY going to miss Matsui, Melky and Johnny…

  62. tex's friend December 28th, 2009 at 10:10 am

    not only can we not start with what we have for LF right now, there is minimal depth. I still think there is a chance they can get Damon back at an agreed to price between what they both offered. 2/17 ish? bad fielder or not, they need one more fielder, and preferrably one with hitting experience. Hoffman/Gardner no thanks. Gardner is welcome to stay on the bench if he has to.

  63. MaineYankee December 28th, 2009 at 10:10 am

    GB7

    The HGH use will hurt Andy for the HOF vote unless the voters change how they feel about that by the time he’s eligible.

  64. tex's friend December 28th, 2009 at 10:13 am

    did the cardinals ever have a mark mcGwire press conference to have him talk about his steroid use?

  65. Whatsa Matta U December 28th, 2009 at 10:13 am

    Anyone who thinks that Brett Gardner is an everday Left Fielder is either:

    A) Smoking Crack
    B) A Red Sox Fan
    C) Both

  66. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 10:13 am

    Doreen – Ain’t it Just “Grand”?
    December 28th, 2009 at 9:58 am
    ditmars1929 -

    I agree with your sentiment that if a guy is a HOF-er, then he is one, and shouldn’t be made to wait because he’s not “worthy” of a first ballot selection.

    But, that’s the way it’s worked (and I don’t see it changing until the “old school” guys are no longer voting). I think it’s silly and a way to wield “power.” As far as I know, once you’re actually in the HOF, they don’t have a separate room for first balloters, do they?

    ————————————————————

    No separate rooms for first balloters, but, every record book and list, including Elias and MLB has an asterisk by the first timers to note the difference.

  67. Whatsa Matta U December 28th, 2009 at 10:13 am

    tex’s friend
    December 28th, 2009 at 10:13 am
    did the cardinals ever have a mark mcGwire press conference to have him talk about his steroid use?

    They did, but he refused to talk about the past ;-)

  68. Bret the Hitman December 28th, 2009 at 10:15 am

    MTU,

    The Yankees definitely have leverage.

    However, they’ll lose a bit of bargaining power when the Mets enter the Holliday sweepstakes.

    Even if the Yankees are convinced Holliday won’t play for a loser team, they can’t disrespect an absurd offer from the Mets by not countering at all. They will be forced to counter honorably, even if only by a small bit.

    That small bit is what Boras is working for.

    When the Nats offered Tex 200 million, everyone knew Tex wouldn’t take the contract but it still acted as a goal post of sorts and forced the Yankees to aggressively enter the picture.

    The Yankees know that Holliday hasn’t seen his max offer yet – it’s coming soon from the Mets.

    Then they will enter the picture and swipe him from the Cards.

    In this scenario, the Mets are the Nats :lol:

  69. Whatsa Matta U December 28th, 2009 at 10:15 am

    “No separate rooms for first balloters, but, every record book and list, including Elias and MLB has an asterisk by the first timers to note the difference.”

    I heard that they are going to convert one of the Janitor’s closets for the Steroid users.

  70. Brian Cashman $$$$$$$$ December 28th, 2009 at 10:16 am

    The Yankees and Johnny Damon are PARTING WAYS

  71. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 10:16 am

    MaineYankee
    December 28th, 2009 at 10:10 am
    GB7

    The HGH use will hurt Andy for the HOF vote unless the voters change how they feel about that by the time he’s eligible.

    ————————————————————

    It will be a curious time when the likes of Clemens, Ramirez, Palmeiro and Rodriguez are eligible. Unless Pettitte hangs around for 300 wins, he’d never get in, sadly.

  72. Rich in NJ December 28th, 2009 at 10:17 am

    “Nady is an average defender and has lifetime .308/.383/.471 line against lefties. He, or someone like him, would be a good pickup for a 300-400 AB role.”

    Nady is a little below average overall, but he is a little better in LF according to UZR.

    Good point about his better ISO D v. LHP, but playing him in a platoon role won’t yield 300-400 AB, it would likely yield about 100-150.

    His ISO D v. RHP is pretty bad. So unless he only plays against LHP, he loses value.

    How much is 100-150 AB worth?

  73. Bret the Hitman December 28th, 2009 at 10:18 am

    Edit:

    In this scenario, the Holliday is Teixiera, the Cards are the Red Sox and the Mets are the Nats :lol:

  74. Mark in Tampa December 28th, 2009 at 10:18 am

    Holliday hasn’t signed yet in part because the realities of his market and the adsurdities of Boras’ promises to him are not even within 100M of each other.

  75. GeorgeInJax December 28th, 2009 at 10:18 am

    I agree that Nady would be a nice pickup if he can throw.
    I also think it would be nice to have Eric Hinske as a guy with decent power coming off the bench & he can play the outfield. If (big-big if) Gardner is the LF to give us speed and run scoring at the bottom of the lineup a guy like Hinske makes sense to pinch hit for him when a power bat is needed.

  76. Rich in NJ December 28th, 2009 at 10:19 am

    “It will be a curious time when the likes of Clemens, Ramirez, Palmeiro and Rodriguez are eligible. Unless Pettitte hangs around for 300 wins, he’d never get in, sadly.”

    Supporters of all but Palmeiro can argue that the players were HoF caliber before they likely did PEDs. Palmeiro, otoh, is a pure PED creation.

    You’re right, Pettitte isn’t getting in.

  77. Neil December 28th, 2009 at 10:19 am

    What about Rick Ankiel for LF?

  78. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 28th, 2009 at 10:20 am

    “My bet is still that Wang ends up signing elsewhere”

    Funny- I bet the same thing ;-)

  79. MTU December 28th, 2009 at 10:20 am

    Brett-

    You got that crystal ball workin’.

    Mine is foggy.

    I’m using less sophisticated equipment.

    My Aladdin’s lamp, rabitt’s foot, and lucky rock, wigee board, and throwin’ bones.

    Nothing definite yet but I’m not givin’ up till the last domino falls.

  80. Rich in NJ December 28th, 2009 at 10:21 am

    Anyone who thinks that Brett Gardner is an everday Left Fielder is either:
    A) Smoking Crack
    B) A Red Sox Fan
    C) Both
    __

    D) Given the tiny sample size, we can’t definitively say, and anyone who thinks they know if Gardner is not an everyday LF should see A),B), and C).

  81. Mark in Tampa December 28th, 2009 at 10:22 am

    GreenBeret7,

    There is always talk that nobody will ever be unanimous because Babe Ruth wasn’t. But I heard recently that Cobb and Ruth were in the first HOF class, and Cobb actually received more support than Ruth.

  82. GeorgeInJax December 28th, 2009 at 10:22 am

    Other than LF the Yanks biggest considerations are bench/backup roles.
    I like Ramiro Pena for the reserve infielder and I think Hinske for OF/Pinch Hitter.

  83. Bret the Hitman December 28th, 2009 at 10:22 am

    MTU,

    Last domino?

    Boy you are an ambitious one.

    First domino is Bay to the Sox or any team other than the Mets.

    LET’S GO METS LET’S DO IT AGAIN, YEAH

  84. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 10:23 am

    Rich in NJ
    December 28th, 2009 at 10:19 am
    “It will be a curious time when the likes of Clemens, Ramirez, Palmeiro and Rodriguez are eligible. Unless Pettitte hangs around for 300 wins, he’d never get in, sadly.”

    Supporters of all but Palmeiro can argue that the players were HoF caliber before they likely did PEDs. Palmeiro, otoh, is a pure PED creation.

    You’re right, Pettitte isn’t getting in.

    ————————————————————

    How do you know that Palmeiro was “is a pure PED creation”?

  85. austinmac December 28th, 2009 at 10:24 am

    I’m afraid I have to agree with Betsy on Holliday. Silence is silence. No media, to my knowledge, have even suggested the Yankees like Holliday much less are going to pursue him. I wish it were otherwise. When I see names like Dye bandied about I wish for Holliday even more.

  86. blake December 28th, 2009 at 10:25 am

    The article on the Mets sounds like to me that they are theoretically considering Holliday but would be much more likely to go after Bay because he will be cheaper. There are also reports that the Mets like Bay better as a player for whatever reason.

    If 5/80 is the highest the Cards will go then I think he will be a Yankee next year.

  87. Bret the Hitman December 28th, 2009 at 10:25 am

    Mark in Tampa December 28th, 2009 at 10:18 am

    Holliday hasn’t signed yet in part because the realities of his market and the adsurdities of Boras’ promises to him are not even within 100M of each other.

    I suspect Boras hopes the Mets, after losing out on Bay, will change the reality of the market.

  88. Mark in Tampa December 28th, 2009 at 10:26 am

    “Supporters of all but Palmeiro can argue that the players were HoF caliber before they likely did PEDs. Palmeiro, otoh, is a pure PED creation.”

    Bonds as well, of course.

    Also, Arod has the opportunity to put up HOF numbers after being outed, and being under the microscope. It has to be believed that he is clean now. If he is still doing something, he would have to be one of the dumbest people ever. But in these next 7 years or so, he can show that he is a great player, clean, and that he merits the HOF, regardless of what he did for 3 years in a baseball no-man’s land.

  89. wallypip December 28th, 2009 at 10:28 am

    Rich in NJ:

    I don’t think you grab Nady unless he comes at a platoon outfielder rate. On top of the 200 or so ABs he would get in a straight platoon, he is also a better hitter against certain pitchers than Swisher. Swisher struggles mightily against pitchers with low walk rates. Nady hits those guys a little better. He would be a right handed presence on the bench to prevent the other team from matching up. Also, you have to consider that the Yankees wil pinch run for NJ quite often. That is easier to do when you have a hitter on the bench. As for injuries, if NJ gets hurt then Miranda and Nady become a DH platoon. If an outfielder or Tex gets hurt then Nady replaces them with better than replacement value play.

    I understand why people are down on Nady because he definitely became over rated after that big season in Pittsburgh. However, the guy has been a very good 300-400 AB man for his entire career. If he’s healthy he is very useful in that role. There is no reason to now under rate him as a fourth ourfielder.

  90. Bret the Hitman December 28th, 2009 at 10:29 am

    The Sox originally offered Bay a reported $60 million over 4 years.

    That’s 15 mil per.

    Bay rejected it.

    To sign with the Mets?

    I doubt it.

    He wants to be a Sock, but for more money.

  91. GeorgeInJax December 28th, 2009 at 10:29 am

    Rich in NJ,

    I mentioned Gardner because he IS the current LF on the roster. The team will VERY likely sign someone else for LF, but Gardner playing a lot of time in LF is not so far fetched.

    Just as the speculation was with Melky, The Yanks don’t need an all star at every position. This is the #9 hitter in the lineup. If anything I like a guy with his speed at #9. If he gets on base he’s setting up for the top of the lineup.

  92. Bret the Hitman December 28th, 2009 at 10:30 am

    austinmac December 28th, 2009 at 10:24 am

    I’m afraid I have to agree with Betsy on Holliday. Silence is silence.

    Some would say, ‘silence is golden GOLDEN’

  93. MTU December 28th, 2009 at 10:31 am

    Brett-

    I’m nothing if not determined.

    The door is not closed yet.

    there are 3 possible conditions that would change my stance.

    Holliday signs w someone else

    The Yanks add another LF other than MH

    Holliday signs w us.

    other than that. I’m clinging to the mountainside with my fingernails.

  94. Bret the Hitman December 28th, 2009 at 10:31 am

    blake December 28th, 2009 at 10:25 am

    The article on the Mets sounds like to me that they are theoretically considering Holliday but would be much more likely to go after Bay because he will be cheaper. There are also reports that the Mets like Bay better as a player for whatever reason.

    If 5/80 is the highest the Cards will go then I think he will be a Yankee next year.

    Yes indeed.

  95. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 10:31 am

    Mark in Tampa
    December 28th, 2009 at 10:22 am
    GreenBeret7,

    There is always talk that nobody will ever be unanimous because Babe Ruth wasn’t. But I heard recently that Cobb and Ruth were in the first HOF class, and Cobb actually received more support than Ruth.

    ————————————————————

    They went in with Walter Johnson, Christy Mathewson and Honus Wagner. Who were better than those three? How Cy Young and Tris Speaker were kept out for a year is insane.

  96. Bret the Hitman December 28th, 2009 at 10:32 am

    MTU,

    :lol:

  97. CR9 December 28th, 2009 at 10:32 am

    Rhapsody
    Congratulations to the ‘Boys. Good luck to them in the playoffs, and I hope they hammer Donovan McScabb next week.

  98. Deputy Dawg December 28th, 2009 at 10:34 am

    GB
    Watch how Mick gets down to first from the left side. I have never seen anything like it. He was 21 years old and was healthy as he was ever going to be.

  99. Swami sez December 28th, 2009 at 10:34 am

    Somthing will break within the next 10 days with Holliday, Bay, and Damon.
    Cashman has his ducks in a row and will wait to announce the signing of a leftfielder.

  100. CR9 December 28th, 2009 at 10:34 am

    Mark in Tampa
    I know what you mean, but I think Alex already proved how great he is, after being cheated on both the strike 1 and strike 2 pitch to Brian Fuentes.

  101. Rich in NJ December 28th, 2009 at 10:34 am

    “How do you know that Palmeiro was “is a pure PED creation”?”

    Because he never hit more than 26 HR until he was 28 and then hit 37. Curiously, that power spike coincided with the PED era…and he failed a drug test.

    As an aside, Stick wanted to sign him to play RF in the early ’90s, but he was concerned that he wouldn’t have the power to play the position.

  102. blake December 28th, 2009 at 10:35 am

    I think Holliday will either play for the Cardinals or the Yankees next year. I don’t think he would want to play for the Mets for the same reasons that Bay doesn’t (they stink and the ballpark) and I don’t think the Sox will stretch their payroll that far. It will boil down to whether or not the cards will up their offer. If they won’t then I think Cashman will pounce..

  103. Mark in Tampa December 28th, 2009 at 10:36 am

    “How Cy Young and Tris Speaker were kept out for a year is insane.”

    Maybe they were trying to keep it to 5 per year?

  104. DaSaint007 December 28th, 2009 at 10:36 am

    Hope Wang can pitch effectively enough to be resigned for late 2010 and 2011. Two time 19-game winners are hard to find.

    If Nady can throw better than Damon could (that isn’t hard is it?) then he’d be my LF on a 1 year contract. That would knock Hoffmann off the roster.

    Bench: Cervelli (C), Pena (3B/SS), Hairston (OF, 3B, 2B)
    Not much power from the bench, but speed.

    This team is built for pitching and run-prevention/defense, with the primary linup providing the power.

  105. Bret the Hitman December 28th, 2009 at 10:36 am

    Hello darkness, my old friend
    I’ve come to talk with you again
    Because a vision
    softly creeping
    Left its seeds while I was sleeping
    And the vision that was planted in my brain
    Still remains
    Within the sound of silence

    In restless dreams I walked alone
    Narrow streets of cobblestone
    ‘Neath the halo of a street lamp
    I turned my collar to the cold and damp
    When my eyes were stabbed by the flash of a neon light
    That split the night
    And touched the sound of silence

    And in the naked light I saw
    Ten thousand people, maybe more
    People talking without speaking
    People hearing without listening
    People writing songs that voices never share
    And no one dared
    Disturb the sound of silence

    “Fools”, said I, “You do not know
    Silence like a cancer grows
    Hear my words that I might teach you
    Take my arms that I might reach you”
    But my words, like silent raindrops fell
    And echoed
    In the wells of silence

    And the people bowed and prayed
    To the neon god they made
    And the sign flashed out its warning
    In the words that it was forming
    And the sign said, “The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls
    And tenement halls”
    And whispered in the sounds of silence

  106. Rich in NJ December 28th, 2009 at 10:37 am

    wallypip

    “Swisher struggles mightily against pitchers with low walk rates. Nady hits those guys a little better.”

    Can you cite some examples?

  107. Yazman December 28th, 2009 at 10:37 am

    Bosox Team of the Decade? Sorry piece of journalism here:

    http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/s.....rump-yanks

  108. Mark in Tampa December 28th, 2009 at 10:38 am

    “I know what you mean, but I think Alex already proved how great he is, after being cheated on both the strike 1 and strike 2 pitch to Brian Fuentes.”

    To us, yes, but to all the national HOF voters, probably not yet.

  109. Bret the Hitman December 28th, 2009 at 10:40 am

    Best place to listen to the sound of silence is…

    Arizona desert.

    It tickles your ears.

  110. Rich in NJ December 28th, 2009 at 10:40 am

    GeorgeInJax

    “Rich in NJ,
    I mentioned Gardner because he IS the current LF on the roster. The team will VERY likely sign someone else for LF, but Gardner playing a lot of time in LF is not so far fetched.

    Just as the speculation was with Melky, The Yanks don’t need an all star at every position. This is the #9 hitter in the lineup. If anything I like a guy with his speed at #9. If he gets on base he’s setting up for the top of the lineup.”

    I actually think that Gardner has shown signs (albeit over a SSS) that he has the potential to be a useful player. His OPS was > .900 in May and June, and there are indications that he can be an elite defensive OFer.

  111. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 10:40 am

    Rich in NJ
    December 28th, 2009 at 10:34 am
    “How do you know that Palmeiro was “is a pure PED creation”?”

    Because he never hit more than 26 HR until he was 28 and then hit 37. Curiously, that power spike coincided with the PED era…and he failed a drug test.

    As an aside, Stick wanted to sign him to play RF in the early ’90s, but he was concerned that he wouldn’t have the power to play the position.

    ————————————————————

    Wrigley Field is not a homer haven for left handed batters. By your thinking, Mattingly must have been doing steroids, too, since his minor league high in homers was 9 and in 300 at bats in his first year, he hit 4. Or Puckett, who hit 0 and 4 in his first two seasons in the majors. Nothing better than speculation, huh?

  112. Bret the Hitman December 28th, 2009 at 10:42 am

    modification:

    Best place to listen to the sound of silence is…

    Arizona desert, nighttime.

    It tickles your ears.

  113. Frank December 28th, 2009 at 10:44 am

    “To us, yes, but to all the national HOF voters, probably not yet”

    True, but right now doesn’t matter. His number isn’t coming up for at least 12 years, right? By then, I think the disposition of those tainted by the PED era will more or less have been established. Unless their is some sort of explosive expose on HGH use between now and then, he’s into Cooperstown easily in 2023.

  114. Doreen - Ain't it Just "Grand"? December 28th, 2009 at 10:44 am

    “No separate rooms for first balloters, but, every record book and list, including Elias and MLB has an asterisk by the first timers to note the difference.”

    GB7 -

    I did not know that. You learn something new every day.

    So, clearly there must be gradations of HOF-worthiness. :) At least de facto.

    My opinion is the majority of writers take this quite seriously and do their homework, etc., etc. But there is a population of writers who let their personal feelings about a player influence their judgment. And then there is just the human element – the subjective nature of voting for anything.

    All in all, I think the writers do a decent job of it, though.

    It is extremely puzzling, though, when as you say, a Tom Seaver doesn’t get unanimous consideration. And it’s usually exactly because a particular writer or writers doesn’t believe anyone should be unanimous. And why? Because, the argument goes, Babe Ruth wasn’t unanimous or some such nonsense. It just shows to go ya that personality conflicts have ALWAYS made it into the voting.

  115. wallypip December 28th, 2009 at 10:45 am

    Rich:

    Halladay is the my “off the top of my head” example. He is tough on everyone so it’s not a great example. I’m considering the fact that Swisher will get days off and his replacement would be Nady instead of Hoffman. Rather than picking at different pitchers, let’s just assume that Nady is going to be better on those days than Hoffman.

    I assume you understand all of my other points to why we need a fourth outfielder who can hit at a better than replacement level rate?

  116. ariel December 28th, 2009 at 10:53 am

    I am, and have been, a “Matt Holliday” fan. Apart from “wishing it” it is clear to me that the Yankees do not need and will not sign Matt, especially at the “Boras” inflated numbers. They do not need him and have quite viable alternatives, if not currently on the roster, then otherwise available at realistic numbers. Holliday has damaged his slim chances to wear the Pinstripes by remaining tethered to the Boras nonsense. He, in all likelhood, will again be a Cardinal and will prosper. My vote is to give Nady a shot with an incentive laden deal. One problem, as I see it….his agent, as I recall, is Boras..but he has little leverage. Also, left field has been a “just fill it in” position for the Yankees over the years, and that is probably what Cashman will continue to do.

  117. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 10:53 am

    Doreen – Ain’t it Just “Grand”?
    December 28th, 2009 at 10:44 am
    “No separate rooms for first balloters, but, every record book and list, including Elias and MLB has an asterisk by the first timers to note the difference.”

    GB7 -

    I did not know that. You learn something new every day.

    So, clearly there must be gradations of HOF-worthiness. At least de facto.

    My opinion is the majority of writers take this quite seriously and do their homework, etc., etc. But there is a population of writers who let their personal feelings about a player influence their judgment. And then there is just the human element – the subjective nature of voting for anything.

    All in all, I think the writers do a decent job of it, though.

    It is extremely puzzling, though, when as you say, a Tom Seaver doesn’t get unanimous consideration. And it’s usually exactly because a particular writer or writers doesn’t believe anyone should be unanimous. And why? Because, the argument goes, Babe Ruth wasn’t unanimous or some such nonsense. It just shows to go ya that personality conflicts have ALWAYS made it into the voting.

    ————————————————————

    Yeah, the asterisk, I suppose is to denote who was “The real HOFers”. They also make note of who was selected by the Veteran’s Committee and those selected by the separate Negro League Selection Committee. It’s not noted on the plaques, but all historical data books make the distinctions.

  118. Rich in NJ December 28th, 2009 at 10:54 am

    wallypip

    “I assume you understand all of my other points to why we need a fourth outfielder who can hit at a better than replacement level rate?”

    I would actually like to sign Holliday (especially if the choice is between signing him this season or Crawford next season), so yes, I would like at least a 4th OF, and if Nady would take a mL deal, he may make sense. OTOH, if there aren’t good options now, the Yankees may be able to wait and see what Gardner/Hoffman can do, and upgrade at the trading deadline, if necessary.

  119. jeet skeet December 28th, 2009 at 10:57 am

    been away from the blog for a while, mainly due to my unfortunate following of the Giants. But since that is officially over for me, it’s time to focus on spring training!

    Anyway, is there any talks of Brett Garnder being able to play left field? Or is he strictly a Centerfield guy?

  120. Rich in NJ December 28th, 2009 at 10:58 am

    GB7

    “Wrigley Field is not a homer haven for left handed batters. By your thinking, Mattingly must have been doing steroids, too, since his minor league high in homers was 9 and in 300 at bats in his first year, he hit 4. Or Puckett, who hit 0 and 4 in his first two seasons in the majors. Nothing better than speculation, huh?”

    If Mattingly’s power surge occurred in the PED era, he would deserve increased scrutiny, however, Mattingly demonstrated incremental power since age 23.

    Call it what you will, but as former USSC Justice Potter Stewart said about pornography:

    “I know it when I see it.”

  121. DaSaint007 December 28th, 2009 at 10:59 am

    jeet skeet, there has been much talk of LF. You need to catch up on the prior posts here and on previous threads. BTW, Granderson was traded with the intent of playing CF.

  122. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 11:00 am

    51 days until the official opening of Spring Training camps.

  123. Bronx Jeers December 28th, 2009 at 11:02 am

    The 2013 HOF class is going to be very interesting with Bonds, Clemens and Sosa.

    I always thought that Clemens and Bonds had HOF careers before they touched that garbage but that certainly doesn’t negate the fact that they were cheaters.

    I always found that “stat compiler” tag to be stupid as well.

    As if MLB teams are just handing out contracts to these players to make the back of their baseball cards more impressive.

    MLB is very much survival of the fittest and if you can´t do your job, no ones paying you. Unless your name is Kei Igawa. :wink:

    Speaking of potential HOF’ers with dubious creds, has anybody seen Sammy Sosa recently?

    He got his skin “rejuvenated”

    Creepy.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....49602.html

  124. jeet skeet December 28th, 2009 at 11:03 am

    Yea I know Granderson is the CF. I’m just a big Gardner fan and want him on the field. Just don’t know if he is capable of playing Left Field or is that not even a consideration for the yanks?

  125. Mark in Tampa December 28th, 2009 at 11:03 am

    Frank,

    RThat was my initial point on Arod having an advantage on the other PED likely players who were already retired or just about to as their scandals broke. he has a long time to re-establish his credentials.

    Also, a few great years from here to the end of his career can validate his previous seasons that are now being called into question. That is something that Bonds, McGwire, et al cannot do.

  126. Rich in NJ December 28th, 2009 at 11:07 am

    “I always found that “stat compiler” tag to be stupid as well”

    What’s Lee Smith?

  127. wallypip December 28th, 2009 at 11:07 am

    Rich:

    Obviously the Yankees should not sign a fourth outfielder until the big names are off the board. An addition of Holliday, Bay, or Damon would change the bench needs.

    If they stand pat with Gardner, I have looked at other options and they include names like Gomes, Thames and Emil Brown. I think a healthy Nady is better than any of those guys in the same price range. If someone can find a better option then I’m all for it. If Boras thinks that Nady deserves LF starter money then I’d certainly rather see the Yankees go in another direction.

    I do not think that the Yankees should go without a bench bat and look to upgrade mid season. Nady (or the others in his class) will not block Gardner from getting ABs if he produces and will not knock Hoffman off of the roster. Even if everyone is healthy and performs well then there are 200 ABs waiting for the fourth outfielder. One injury puts a major hole in the lineup. Nady’s lifetime numbers place him below average for a corner outfielder but well above replacement level.

  128. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 11:08 am

    Rich in NJ
    December 28th, 2009 at 10:58 am
    GB7

    “Wrigley Field is not a homer haven for left handed batters. By your thinking, Mattingly must have been doing steroids, too, since his minor league high in homers was 9 and in 300 at bats in his first year, he hit 4. Or Puckett, who hit 0 and 4 in his first two seasons in the majors. Nothing better than speculation, huh?”

    If Mattingly’s power surge occurred in the PED era, he would deserve increased scrutiny, however, Mattingly demonstrated incremental power since age 23.

    Call it what you will, but as former USSC Justice Potter Stewart said about pornography:

    “I know it when I see it.”

    ————————————————————

    Just like everyone else except for the person using it, you have no idea who used, when they started or when they quit. I don’t have a clue. Do you indict Maris who jumped from 14 to 28 to 16 to 39 to 61 and then was riddled by injuries? Steroid induced injuries? They certainly had them, then, too. How about Henry Aaron who went from 28 to the mid 40 homer range in his late 30s?

    Maybe Stewart knew pornography because he was dealing in it.

  129. Six Degrees of Javier Vazquez December 28th, 2009 at 11:12 am

    The thing about Nady is he didn’t have his surgery until the end of June. It usually takes 12 months to recover. Perhaps the recovery time fame is shorter for a position player, but if not, Nady would miss the first three months of the season. :(

  130. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 11:12 am

    Lee Smith was no more or less a stat compiler than Rich Gossage, Dennis Eckersley or any other player/pitcher who pitched well in his late 30s and early 40s…like Ryan, Seaver, Carlton, Aaron or Mays.

  131. Patrick from CT December 28th, 2009 at 11:12 am

    I think a Jerry Hairston type that can play 3rd for Arod and split time in the OF with Gardy makes the most sence at this point. Pena can be the utility infielder as he proved last year he can handle the roll.
    If Hoffman sticks, that’s great, but look for his spot to be filled by a vet like Heinski that can hit the long ball coming off the bench.

  132. Phil the Thrill December 28th, 2009 at 11:14 am

    Aaron moved from a big park to a great homer park when he was 35.

  133. Six Degrees of Javier Vazquez December 28th, 2009 at 11:16 am

    I’m not sure the yanks want Hairston back, he only hit .237.

  134. Yankee Trader December 28th, 2009 at 11:17 am

    Bert Blyleven and Andre Dawson will hopefully get into the HOF.

    The Yankees will not, IMHO, be signing Holliday, therefore the best scenario for us is that he signs with the Cardinals and Bay signs with the Mets. If either signs with the Sox[if they expand their payroll and are prepared to pay the luxury tax], then they’re planning to be in the WS this year and will forfeit players for Adrien Gonzalez at some point in 2010.

    The next signing for LF will be a right-handed hitter who can fit under payroll, so therefore think small scale like Reed Johnson. DeRosa will probably be a Giant, unless Cashman soon frees up payroll, like Gaudin/Mitre to fit in DeRosa. Unless Nady can make an accurate throw to home plate from LF, his only worth is at DH until he can build up arm strength.

    As for Joba vs Phil, may the best man win!!

  135. DaSaint007 December 28th, 2009 at 11:19 am

    There’s no room for Hairston, Gardner, Pena, Hoffman and Hinske. That’s one too many.

  136. sunny615 December 28th, 2009 at 11:21 am

    Wang will not be a Yankee come 2010. They Yankees have a pretty strict model so far, find market value and stick to it. Right now, with Wang not pitching until – probably June, his market value would be a minor league contract with incentives (as Chad pointed out). Somewhere out there, is a GM desperate enough for pitching that they’ll offer Wang a major league roster spot and Wang will take it. (Notice I didn’t say smart GM, I just said GM). Already – there have been a number of ridiculous signings (Placido Polanco, Irod, or Brandon Lyon anyone?) so it’s highly probably that another GM/team is willing to go a little farther than what the Yankees see as Wang’s “value”.

  137. Bronx Jeers December 28th, 2009 at 11:22 am

    “What’s Lee Smith?”

    A player that that teams thought could help their club win games.

  138. Mark in Tampa December 28th, 2009 at 11:24 am

    The term “stat compiler” derisively implies that certain players accumulate stats that contribute little or nothing to the success of the team.

    Unless you watch every game and the context in which the stats were accumulated, there is no way to really tell. A HR in a 5-0 game may have no meaning. Until the team with zero suddenly gets 6.

    Conversely, a HR by a player on a team up 2-1 in a game is a “clutch” HR. But, if the losing team never scores that second run, how necessary was the HR? Unless it gave a cushion to the closer to have an easier time getting the save. Now he is just “compiling” an easy save.

    You can turn yourself in knots trying to figure out what matters and what doesn’t. That is why the numbers on the page are what matters. The save rule is the same for Mariano as it was for Lee Smith. A HR is a HR, whether it is hit by Derek Jeter in a tie game, or Adam Dunn in a blowout.

  139. Rich in NJ December 28th, 2009 at 11:25 am

    “A player that that teams thought could help their club win games.”

    And in terms of his Hall of Fame candidacy, he is a compiler.

  140. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 11:26 am

    Yankee Trader
    December 28th, 2009 at 11:17 am
    Bert Blyleven and Andre Dawson will hopefully get into the HOF.

    ————————————————————

    I’d be somewhat surprised if NYY signs Holliday, also. short of signing him, my choice would be Derosa. Not many good choices on the trade market without tearing out a good portion of the farm system.

    Trader, you’ve seen plenty of HOFers, who’s your top ten of the eligibles, your Veteran’s Committee selections and executive Committee selections. I would think that George Steinbrenner comes up on the list within the next two years.

  141. wallypip December 28th, 2009 at 11:27 am

    Nady is supposed to be ready for Spring Training. The fact that the Braves soured on him could mean that his rehab calender is sketchy or that Boras is demanding too much for a guy in his situation. If that’s the case, then there are safer, cheaper options.

    To tell you the truth, if the Yankees are pretty comfortable with Gardner getting 400 ABs and Hoffman backing up CF, then I’d have no problem with Johnny Gomes. He’s a bad but not terrible corner outfielder who can certainly be the righthanded power option.

  142. Yankee Trader December 28th, 2009 at 11:30 am

    Unless I’m missing something, why isn’t there any talk about signing FA Kiko Calero, who had an excellent year, WHIP 1.09, 1 homer in 57 innings, 67 strikeouts, .183 BA against, and made $500K last year for the Marlins. Pitched well against the Phillies.

    Might he be a reasonable one year option for the Yankees?

  143. Rich in NJ December 28th, 2009 at 11:32 am

    GB7

    “Just like everyone else except for the person using it, you have no idea who used, when they started or when they quit. I don’t have a clue. Do you indict Maris who jumped from 14 to 28 to 16 to 39 to 61 and then was riddled by injuries? Steroid induced injuries? They certainly had them, then, too. How about Henry Aaron who went from 28 to the mid 40 homer range in his late 30s?

    Maybe Stewart knew pornography because he was dealing in it.”

    Again, we aren’t viewing the current PED suspects in a vacuum, we are viewing them within the context of the era they played in.

    Fairly or unfairly, that era is tainted for PED usage. That may result in some false positives, but that’s the price that players have to pay for not being more aggressive in seeking to police their sport.

    Were there credible allegations that USSC justices were known purveyors of pornography? If not, your analogy is inapt.

  144. Rich in NJ December 28th, 2009 at 11:33 am

    wallypip

    Gomes’s UZR is abysmal:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/stats.....F#fielding

  145. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 11:34 am

    If it’s left up to the new aged scions of baseball statistics, a player that puts up numbers like Cano has over a career, or, as in the case of andre Dawson will never make the HOF, but, it will instead be filled with the Eddie Yosts of the baseball world…with his 1600 walks and .250 batting average with limited power and run production and shoddy glovework.

  146. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 11:40 am

    Yankee Trader
    December 28th, 2009 at 11:30 am
    Unless I’m missing something, why isn’t there any talk about signing FA Kiko Calero, who had an excellent year, WHIP 1.09, 1 homer in 57 innings, 67 strikeouts, .183 BA against, and made $500K last year for the Marlins. Pitched well against the Phillies.

    Might he be a reasonable one year option for the Yankees?

    ————————————————————

    I’ve like Calero, too, but, something seems to be missing, almost like he’s considered a one year fluke. Nothing could be further from the truth. He could be had for a 1 year, $1 mil deal with an option.

  147. Patrick from CT December 28th, 2009 at 11:41 am

    The odds that Hoffman makes the team are low. The Yankees will need a bench guy with power to rotate in with Gardy and Swish. Gardy doesn’t hit enough to get more than 350-400 at bats. I think he got about 250ABs last year and hit like .270/.340 and that would be just fine for 400ABs, but with out pop, not real good for LF.

  148. YankeeRay December 28th, 2009 at 11:43 am

    “If Morris gets in and over the years, Pettitte is denied with nearly similar numbers or better, writers had better be prepared to explain”
    ——-

    Pettitte admitted cheating Morris didn’t

  149. Rich in NJ December 28th, 2009 at 11:46 am

    “The term “stat compiler” derisively implies that certain players accumulate stats that contribute little or nothing to the success of the team.”

    No, it implies that certain players have been able to hang around long enough to assemble stats that on their face may appear to be HoF worthy, but upon closer inspection, their year to year contributions have been less so.

  150. YankeeRay December 28th, 2009 at 11:46 am

    Bret, I love yor tenacity as I was the same with Tex last year and will admit that I thought Manny was a good fit but I was wrong on that.
    This year Holliday is a great fit but I think Cash has different plans that we will soon see.
    I don’t doubt a trade though I would rather not keep depleting our farm system.

    If Boras is waiting for another bidder like the Mets or Orioles he may be waiting for a long time. If the Card offer is the best that Holliday will get I will have a hard time understanding why we don’t easily trump that. If the bidding gets up over 100mm then I understand Cash’s stance.

  151. Paco Dooley December 28th, 2009 at 11:47 am

    Why would Wang return now that the Yankees have Vasquez? They already have 6 starters and Wang would make it 7. Unless they want Joba and Phil in the pen, Wang would be stuck outside the rotation. I want him back as a fan, but I imagine that there is not really room for him in NY this year (next year, yes, they can let Javy walk and Andy retire and add him to the starting rotation).

  152. Yankee Trader December 28th, 2009 at 11:47 am

    Roberto Alomar, Kevin Appier, Andy Ashby, Ellis Burks, Andres Galarraga, Pat Hentgen, Mike Jackson, Eric Karros, Ray Lankford, Barry Larkin, Edgar Martinez, Fred McGriff, Shane Reynolds, Robin Ventura, and Todd Zeile.

    First time candidates above-none of which will get enough votes this year, IMO.

    http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/s.....ame-ballot

    Top Ten who would get my vote: Really only believe the top 2 deserve it at this point.

    Bert Blyleven
    Andre Dawson
    Fred McGriff
    Tim Raines
    Roberto Alomar
    Lee Smith
    Dave Parker
    Don Mattingly
    Dale Murphy
    Jack Morris

    GB7-

    Gotta go and run some errands now.

    NO SMOKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  153. wallypip December 28th, 2009 at 11:50 am

    Rich:
    Gomes’s numbers are skewed by a terrible 2007, but there is no doubt that he is pretty bad. I guess I was thinking of him in a strictly 150 AB role, but I certainly wouldn’t run him out on the field everyday if someone got hurt.

  154. Doreen - Ain't it Just "Grand"? December 28th, 2009 at 11:50 am

    Rich in NJ -

    Are you talking about the guys who should have retired, but hung around trying to get the 300th win, the 3,000th strikeout, the 500th HR, etc.? And so the last few years of their careers were spent solely in pursuit of those feats, and any contribution to the team they were currently playing for was secondary?

    If so, that’s a much more distinct definition of stat compiler, and I could agree with that one. :)

    It’s when they say a player like Alex Rodriguez – a player in his prime who puts up a lot numbers – is a stat compiler that I think is silly.

  155. YankeeRay December 28th, 2009 at 11:53 am

    The more I hear people say they are ok with Gardner in LF the more I think about the post season. Gardner was overmatched and did not look like a major leaguer IMO. Yeah yeah I know he was coming off an injury blah blah blah. When the pitching was at its best in the post season Gardner looked horrible.
    He is a 4th OF and pinch runner at best.
    Derosa makes the most sense to me outside of Holliday but I wouldn’t be that upset if Hairston came back as at least you would get a professional at bat day in and day out.

  156. Gardner in CF December 28th, 2009 at 11:55 am

    Gardner in CF Your comment is awaiting moderation. December 28th, 2009 at 11:48 am

    joeman December 28th, 2009 at 9:49 am

    2nd & 3rd with two outs finds hitters like Gardner

    http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/pl.....ituational
    See “RISP w/2 Outs” and “Men on, 2 outs”

    RISP w/ 2 outs always seemed to find Cano last year.
    Cano 98 AB, .204, 16 BB
    For comparison:
    Teixiera 62 AB, .355, 16 BB
    Jeter 56 AB, .259, 16 BB

    Gardner’s numbers are nothing to worry about

  157. Gardner in CF December 28th, 2009 at 11:57 am

    RISP w/ 2 outs always seemed to find Cano last year.
    Cano 98 AB, .204, 16 BB

    make that 5 BB

  158. Bronx Jeers December 28th, 2009 at 11:58 am

    I’m not sure I understand the difference between Smith and the other closers that are in the HOF.

    On the other hand, seeing the difference in MO is easy.

  159. Frank December 28th, 2009 at 12:00 pm

    “Gardner was overmatched and did not look like a major leaguer IMO”

    So he was Swisher with fewer plate appearances?

  160. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 12:12 pm

    Yankee Trader
    December 28th, 2009 at 11:47 am
    Roberto Alomar, Kevin Appier, Andy Ashby, Ellis Burks, Andres Galarraga, Pat Hentgen, Mike Jackson, Eric Karros, Ray Lankford, Barry Larkin, Edgar Martinez, Fred McGriff, Shane Reynolds, Robin Ventura, and Todd Zeile.

    First time candidates above-none of which will get enough votes this year, IMO.

    ————————————————————

    Nice list you’ve “compiled” there Trader. Thanks.

    Sorry, but, I went jelly-legged and had a cigarette last night. Thanks for the encouragement, Trader.

  161. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 12:18 pm

    If a team wants to bring in a player and pay him as a gate attraction to reach a milestone, much like the Giants did with Randy Johnson, I have no problems with that. Players’ careers are defined by complied stats. It’s always been so….from Ruth to DiMaggio to Berra to Ford to Mantle to Warren Spahn to Aaron to Mays. very few quit at the top of their game like Koufax and Mussina.

  162. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 12:19 pm

    defined by ***compiled*** stats

  163. CR9 December 28th, 2009 at 12:19 pm

    Aside from it benefiting a NY team, does anyone else agree with the merits of Caldwell giving up the perfect season as I do?

    They say a perfect regular season is special? Not really, it’s been done before.

    Who needs that pressure building up to the SB? If they lose the SB, or in an earlier playoff round, they become the laughing stocks.

    The added bonus here is, the Patriots will remain as the biggest laughing stocks in the history of the NFL. Nobody will ever forget their chokejob.

    The Colts just removed the added pressure of a perfect season and now have 3 weeks from yesterday of mental and physical rest.

  164. Mark in Tampa December 28th, 2009 at 12:20 pm

    “I’m not sure I understand the difference between Smith and the other closers that are in the HOF.”

    That is a pretty short list. I think only Eckersley, Sutter, and the Goose are in the HOF at this moment. Eckersley in part because of his time as a starter as well as his 392. So, there is not a lot to compare Lee Smith to.

  165. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 28th, 2009 at 12:22 pm

    Isn’t the choice between Joba and Phil kind of obvious?

    If one (Hughes) is going to have an inning limit and the other (Joba) is not, then Joba is the obvious choice.

    I still believe Joba has the tools to be a solid starter.

    They really should just unleash him full bore in 2010 and just continue to baby along Hughes in the pen if they feel they need to do that.

  166. CR9 December 28th, 2009 at 12:24 pm

    ….

    All because Bill ARROGANCE Belichick decided to change things up and wear the Red Hoodie.

  167. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 12:25 pm

    Mark in Tampa
    December 28th, 2009 at 12:20 pm
    “I’m not sure I understand the difference between Smith and the other closers that are in the HOF.”

    That is a pretty short list. I think only Eckersley, Sutter, and the Goose are in the HOF at this moment. Eckersley in part because of his time as a starter as well as his 392. So, there is not a lot to compare Lee Smith to.

    ————————————————————

    Add Hoyt Wilhelm and Rollie Fingers to the HOF relievers

  168. Rich in NJ December 28th, 2009 at 12:33 pm

    Doreen – Ain’t it Just “Grand”?

    Rich in NJ -
    Are you talking about the guys who should have retired, but hung around trying to get the 300th win, the 3,000th strikeout, the 500th HR, etc.? And so the last few years of their careers were spent solely in pursuit of those feats, and any contribution to the team they were currently playing for was secondary?
    __

    To a degree, but not entirely. My point is that some players’ performances aren’t at a HoF level for very long, if at all, but they stay around long enough to hit putatively HoF benchmarks.

    To cite an extreme example of what might have been, Dave Kingman had 442 HR. Even if he was able to scratch out another 58 and hit the magic 500 mark, he still wouldn’t have been a HoFer, but may have squeaked in.

  169. Bronx Born December 28th, 2009 at 12:34 pm

    Stay focused on your purpose GB. You will make it. Strong purpose overcomes all barriers.

  170. Mark in Tampa December 28th, 2009 at 12:35 pm

    “Add Hoyt Wilhelm and Rollie Fingers to the HOF relievers”

    Yeah, I missed them, but it is still a very short list.

  171. Lost in Holliday-in December 28th, 2009 at 12:36 pm

    You guys might find this interesting..

    Hollidays Dad interviewed (keep in mind it was SL radio).

    http://www.101espn.com/post/31.....2409/audio

    Click the Tom Holliday audio.

  172. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 12:36 pm

    Always a bit of a surprise that Mike Marshall, Sparky Lyle and Dave Righetti got so little consideration for the HOF.

  173. Betsy -high on pie December 28th, 2009 at 12:36 pm

    I would be shocked if we made a trade for a LF. Cash is well aware that we depleted our system a bit ; I’m sure he won’t want to dip into it again.

    Mad Prince, what exactly do you mean by babying Phil in the pen? Babying him, for one, is a bad idea. Phil in the pen in general is a bad idea (terrible, actually) unless he’s the long man or goes 2/3 innings in setting up for Mo. Even then I hate the idea. This kid needs to start and he needs to start badly. He either starts up here or he goes to AAA – that’s really the only viable option. The Yankees have got to start thinking of the future. Phil will be better off next year for starting this year and so will the Yankees.

  174. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 12:38 pm

    Mark in Tampa
    December 28th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
    “Add Hoyt Wilhelm and Rollie Fingers to the HOF relievers”

    Yeah, I missed them, but it is still a very short list.

    ————————————————————

    It should be a little longer than 5, although, Rivera and Hoffmann are shoe-ins.

  175. Betsy -high on pie December 28th, 2009 at 12:39 pm

    GB, how are you doing? How many days is this without a cigarette? I’m very proud of you – keep it up!

  176. Doreen - Ain't it Just "Grand"? December 28th, 2009 at 12:41 pm

    GB7 -

    Yes, if teams have no problem paying a player (great or once-great) who is sticking around to get his numbers, that’s their perogative.

    But, I think the question is, should they be automatic locks to get in the HOF, if for the last 3 or so years all they did was hang on in order to reach HOF “magic” numbers?

    I suppose you have to look at the entire body of their work.

  177. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 12:44 pm

    Bronx Born
    December 28th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
    Stay focused on your purpose GB. You will make it. Strong purpose overcomes all barriers.

    ————————————————————

    I’m working on it. It’s just that I heard this soft, seductive voice calling, GB..GB, baby. I’m right here, waiting for your soft, sweet lips.

    It was a woman’s voice, but, since I knew that there wasn’t a woman in the house, I knew it was a Marlboro.

    I also knew that it wasn’t in my mind, because there were no typos.

  178. Patrick from CT December 28th, 2009 at 12:45 pm

    The only way Wang comes back to the Yankees is if he signs a Minor League deal. He would be about 8th on the list of starters at this point and won’t be ready until mid season.
    Some other team is going to give him a ML deal and that is where he should go. The Mets could use him.
    The Yankees pitching staff looks to be in great shape at this point going into Spring Training. Phil will be the #6 starter and they need to find a way to keep him ready to start if/when someone goes down. Someone will get hurt and look for Phil to get at least 20 starts in 2010. No way they just stick Joba in the pen coming out of the gate if he comes to camp in shape with the right frame of mind. He will get his chance to become a top flight starter without training wheels in 2010.

  179. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 12:47 pm

    Betsy -high on pie
    December 28th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
    GB, how are you doing? How many days is this without a cigarette? I’m very proud of you – keep it up!

    ————————————————————

    sorry, Doll. 18 hours. I’m so weak that I couldn’t resist the siren’s call.

  180. Betsy -high on pie December 28th, 2009 at 12:50 pm

    Aww, GB. Hey, it happens. Now go get back on that horse…..Doll? You sound like Humphrey Bogart ,lol

  181. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 12:53 pm

    Doreen – Ain’t it Just “Grand”?
    December 28th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
    GB7 -

    Yes, if teams have no problem paying a player (great or once-great) who is sticking around to get his numbers, that’s their perogative.

    But, I think the question is, should they be automatic locks to get in the HOF, if for the last 3 or so years all they did was hang on in order to reach HOF “magic” numbers?

    I suppose you have to look at the entire body of their work.

    ————————————————————

    It may inflate the numbers, but, it doesn’t diminish the body of work. Players have always hung on for that one last touch of magic. It’s ego. They believe there’s more left than their really is. Even in the military, that tends to be the case. I probably should have retired a year or two sooner, even though I was still performing at an average to slightly above average standards. I reached a level where it was just too hard to compete with others that were 5-15 years younger than me as far as physical training tests went. It was also getting harder to jump out of a plane with a 100 pound rucksack on my back.

  182. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 28th, 2009 at 12:54 pm

    betsy,

    I’m not lobbying for babying anyone. Quite frankly, i think the whole inning limit junk with Joba last year was absurd.

    I’ve read somewhere…I think on this blog actually…that Phil would have an inning limit in 2010.

    I agree with you about AAA though. Problem with that is, I doubt the Yankees will be willing to sacrifice not having his arm in the 8th inning to allow him to develop as a starter in Scranton.

    I assume their plan is to groom him for the rotation for 2010 when Pettitte is more likely to retire.

    Your guess is as good as mine.

    Either way, with these two pitchers, the inning limit needs to go out the door. They should both be pegged for 200 innings as starters.

  183. austinmac December 28th, 2009 at 12:55 pm

    I admit to being no professional scout, but my son plays at a D1 baseball school, and I have coached and seen a lot of baseball. Gardner’s swing is ugly. He has no power and will draw few walks since they do not expect an extra base hit. He is a good defensive replacement, pinch runner and an occasional sub. I would be shocked if he ever becomes more than that.

    I have never seen Hoffman hit, but all scouting reports discuss big flaws in his swing. Even if Long is a great batting coach, I presume many other capable ones have tried without success to improve his swing. I see no reason to believe a hitting miracle will occur at age 24. Left field is an area of big problems. And no I don’t want to hear more of Chad Curtis. The Yankees let him go. I presume they didn’t think they cold tolerate another season with a below averge outfielder.

  184. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 12:55 pm

    Betsy -high on pie
    December 28th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
    Aww, GB. Hey, it happens. Now go get back on that horse…..Doll? You sound like Humphrey Bogart ,lol

    ————————————————————

    When I start calling you a dame or a moll, then, you’ll know that Humphrey Bogart and Edward G. Robinson are fighting for my body.

  185. Ross December 28th, 2009 at 12:58 pm

    Wang deserves a shot at the Major Leagues again, but ANY team taking him on must bear in mind that,

    a) the type of surgery he is recovering from is ‘high risk’ when his eventual pitching mechanics are considered

    b) Wang has shown little desire in developing an array of pitches beyond his sinker and a fairly ‘straight’ fast ball. This is acceptable ONLY if his slider works each outing; if either pitch is left regularly up in the zone, the results are predictable – as we all saw

    ****************************************
    TJP
    December 28th, 2009 at 9:06 am
    If the Yankees do not sign and give their former ace a second chance, that would not be wrong, it would be stupid. A person stating that Eli Whitney invented the transatlantic cable, would be wrong; Cyrus Field did.

    Actually, TJP, Cyrus West Field was really just the financial ‘muscle’ behind the Atlantic Telegraph Co. The technical brains were provided by Frederick Gisborne, Samuel Morse and Lt Matthew Maury.

    Eli Whtney Jr. patented the cotton gin in 1794 it is true, although his cousin Maury MIGHT have attempted to cross the Atlantic in one in 1797!

    Cheers!~

  186. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 1:01 pm

    Maury Whitney was just a hanger on.

  187. m December 28th, 2009 at 1:02 pm

    When I read that heading, Linda Ronstadt’s “Somewhere Out There” wormed its way into my head. Thanks, Sam. :?

    Would love to have Wang back, but if he doesn’t come back it’s my fervent wish for him to get back on track. He’s a great guy.

    (Nick in SF-not a Streisand fan either)

    Yankees or Lakers for team of the decade. BoTox? Grrr.

  188. CR9 December 28th, 2009 at 1:06 pm

    Umm. The Lakers had 4 championships IIRC. How are they not the team of the decade.

    Who has the Botox (LOL)?

  189. SmackethDowneth December 28th, 2009 at 1:06 pm

    “Rich in NJ
    December 28th, 2009 at 12:33 pm

    To cite an extreme example of what might have been, Dave Kingman had 442 HR. Even if he was able to scratch out another 58 and hit the magic 500 mark, he still wouldn’t have been a HoFer, but may have squeaked in.”

    Classic….
    Kingman got the proverbial free boat, tank of gas, and map of the Bermuda Triangle. Despite bagging over 90 RBI in his final season, no one would offer him a contract.
    Wonder if that woulda happened in today’s market?

  190. 213 Area Code December 28th, 2009 at 1:07 pm

    This post is great news, assuming it actually comes together. Thanks to Grace for getting the information in; this is what continues to make the LHYB the center of NYY Universe. I, for one, would love to see CMW back in The Bronx.

  191. EdWhitson December 28th, 2009 at 1:08 pm

    At work, so I can’t listen to Holliday’s father…..did he say anything interesting. At some point, and I think it is going to be soon, Holliday / Bay are going to make a decision.

  192. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 1:10 pm

    m
    December 28th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
    When I read that heading, Linda Ronstadt’s “Somewhere Out There” wormed its way into my head. Thanks, Sam.

    ————————————————————

    One of the best songs that she ever did (with James Ingram). Her best was “Long, Long Time” and “I’ll Be Your Baby Tonight”. She didn’t really have bad songs. Much like Willie Nelson and EmmyLou Harris.

  193. SmackethDowneth December 28th, 2009 at 1:11 pm

    LA Linda looked mighty cute in the ol’ Cub Scout outfit, too :-)

  194. Ross December 28th, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    Error! For ‘slider’ read ‘sinker’ (BAD Monday following a holiday!

  195. m December 28th, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    Still talking Phil? I know Phil wanted to stay in the majors last season, but if he loses out in ST I think it’d be smart of him to go to AAA and stay stretched out. He could build up his innings and be ready at the quick if someone gets injured or if the #5 doesn’t perform up to par.

    Last night I went back to read that Kepner article on Vazquez and saw something that stood out:

    “The Yankees’ rotation will include Sabathia, A. J. Burnett, Andy Pettitte, Vazquez and probably Phil Hughes, though Joba Chamberlain, Alfredo Aceves and others will be part of the competition. The presence of Vazquez allows the Yankees to commit to Hughes or Chamberlain as the setup man for Mariano Rivera, an arrangement that has worked very well. ”

    The eyebrows shot up a couple of times there, but it was interesting nonetheless.

  196. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 1:13 pm

    Kingman was hardly a hanger-on. 30+ homers in his last three years. He was never much more than a .240 hitter but teams knew that.

  197. m December 28th, 2009 at 1:16 pm

    CR9,

    I know, right!

    GB7,

    It’s just so sad…Thinking of that poor mouse wondering around out there all alone…Not a friend in the world…

    Betsy, don’t forget to watch “Great Mouse Detective”.

  198. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 1:17 pm

    The writers must be pulling their hair out (those that have hair) over the lack of rumors, or, even rumors of rumors.

  199. Ross December 28th, 2009 at 1:18 pm

    GB7

    18 hours! Grrrrr..Lash yourself to the mast and stuff your ears with wax…that general works for sirens.

    Oh, and old Royal Air Force motto:

    ‘Never jump out of a serviceable aircraft!’

    Cheers!

  200. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 1:20 pm

    m
    December 28th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
    CR9,

    I know, right!

    GB7,

    It’s just so sad…Thinking of that poor mouse wondering around out there all alone…Not a friend in the world…

    Betsy, don’t forget to watch “Great Mouse Detective”.

    ————————————————————

    I wonder how he ever got through customs. Must have been pretty lax back in those days at Disney.

  201. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2009 at 1:23 pm

    Ross
    December 28th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
    GB7

    18 hours! Grrrrr..Lash yourself to the mast and stuff your ears with wax…that general works for sirens.

    Oh, and old Royal Air Force motto:

    ‘Never jump out of a serviceable aircraft!’

    Cheers!

    ————————————————————

    I jumped for over 30 years and I loved it every time…except the first time, when the wind got under my helmet and the chinstrap cut my chin down to my teeth from ear to ear. It didn’t hurt and I didn’t know it until my face thawed out.

  202. S.o.S. December 28th, 2009 at 1:25 pm

    Whats up fellas. Im still sick to my stomach from watching my COLTS tank it yesterday. A once in a lifetime opportunity flushed down the toilett. I wonder if ill feel better if they win the Super Bowl or say what if?

  203. ko December 28th, 2009 at 1:28 pm

    Wang is only a year and a half removed from being the Yankee ace. A two time 19 game winner. Two injuries later and Cashman has given up on him????? I can’t understand cutting this guy lose and then wishfully relying on two guys who haven’t been able to get it done in the past as starters like Chamberlain and Hughes. What does a real baseball person in the organization, like Girardi, think?

  204. Nick in SF in Las Vegas December 28th, 2009 at 1:28 pm

    Has Lost in Taiwan – Wang Is commented in this thread yet?

    I need some inside info.

  205. antisocial scrooge December 28th, 2009 at 1:28 pm

    –> new thread

  206. JimmyH December 28th, 2009 at 1:30 pm

    Was watching Yankee Classics last night. They featured the Sept. game against Tampa where Jeter tied Gehrig for hits. After watching, I came away with a feeling that we will miss Damon’s and Matsui’s bats more than we now realize. Just saying.

  207. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 28th, 2009 at 1:30 pm

    SoS: know this will not make you feel better. However, do not agree at all at what the Colts did. When you have a chance to be the best team ever, then you go for it. Superbowl winners are almost a dime dozen (there’s 40+ now). You have to go for it

  208. hjcho December 28th, 2009 at 1:40 pm

    I would want him back, you never know what will happen during the season. A one year incentive deal is low risk, and at worst he will have a chance to prove himself MLB ready again.

  209. JeterJobaCanoFan2010 December 28th, 2009 at 2:45 pm

    Fans: Cal Ripken, Jr. was denied an unanimous vote on the first ballot because one voter would not vote unanimous on general principle.

    Let’s wait and see how many votes Jeter and Mo get on their first ballots. If they don’t no one will.

  210. JeterJobaCanoFan2010 December 28th, 2009 at 2:50 pm

    GB: I’m sure you know why Allie Reynolds was called Super chief.

  211. Jim December 28th, 2009 at 3:40 pm

    I am not sure what happened a few years ago that put Wang in the dog house with the Yanks, but he has never received the respect of “love” that one would expect out of a two time 19 game winner. I know, he is almost exclusively a sinkerballer and, therefore, does not have the sexy strikeouts or crafty offspeed stuff that wows a crowd. He did win 19 games twice on a team with a suspect infield. Imagine what he could do should he get healthy with this infield! Sign him!

  212. Betsy -high on pie December 28th, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/1…rs-calero.html

    The Yankees still appear serious about their payroll restrictions for a left fielder. GM Brian Cashman says Xavier Nady’s asking price “is above the Yankees’ current budget,” according to MLB.com’s Brian Hoch.
    *********

    I’m not for Nady because of the injuries, but this is a bit unbelievable. I just don’t get why the Yankees insist on holding absolutely firm at not going over $200 million – do they really care what other teams think? Based on Cash’s “you can call us champions” statement, no, but you have to start wondering when even Nady is too expensive.
    .

  213. Joe X December 28th, 2009 at 5:11 pm

    Line of thought. Bench seat 1 = Cervelli. Seat 2 = Hoffman. Why? Because Granderson has a weakness against lefties. Hoffman was acquired to fill this need, at least to start. If Granderson gets better later, this may change. Seat 3 = Gardner, if he were to be a starter, Girardi as a pinch runner, which is his strongest asset. This leaves a need for a short term left fielder, which, is exactly what they’re looking for. Looks like Reed Johnson fills the slot perfectly. I really like Hairston but the only seat left should be Pena’s. He is cheaper and needs to be developed. Also if Crawford becomes available midseason, Pena probably goes to the Rays. A young major league bench player is worth more tha a minor leaguer. You can get a Hairston type player then.

    The weakest spot then will be Swisher. In 2011 Werth will be a FA and he earns less than Swisher, but what I would try first is have Montero work out with O’Neal in right instead of 1B like the other catchers. If Mauer opened up this might help. All this would need a lot of money, but not as much as you would first think. Vazques and Andy are 23mil and Swisher is 8 or so. Nick Johnson = 5. Cash may have to kneel and beg again but WOW.

    Reasons to sign CMW to an incentive loaded minor league contract. If Hughes is the 5th starter and has limited innings, Wong can smoothly be phased into that slot and Hughes can the go to the pen for the rest of the season. This equalizes him with Joba as far as conditioning. If you did that with Joba it would mess with his head like last year. Wang is nearing the end of his rehab and would do so with the same trainers, coaches and doctors he has now. In 2011 he could fit in nicely behind CC, AJ and Lee. The team could then chose between Andy, Javy, Hughes, Joba, Aceves, Gaudin or a signee for the 5 slot. Not a bad gamble.

    Watching Cashman move the pieces around is intrigueing. A left fielder followed by CMW and placing Hughes in as a starter keep this scenario alive.

  214. pecosmedic December 28th, 2009 at 9:40 pm

    I hope CMW comes back. It won’t hurt to have him in the bullpen and prove himself. If anything, just like you said, it’s more depth coming in June. Four million dollars is a small price to pay. At least he’s not asking for the moon and stars like JD. CMW has been one of the classiest Yankees and deserves another chance!


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