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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Another left-handed speed option for left field

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 29, 2009 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Now that Jason Bay has signed with the Mets, the other left fielders on the free agent market might start to fall into place.

I’ve spent most of the afternoon catching up on emails, and I was surprised at how many times Scott Podsednik’s name was mentioned as a possible left field option for the Yankees.

Not that I dislike Podsednik, but isn’t he just an older version of Brett Gardner?

Gardner hit .270 with a .345 on-base percentage and a .379 slugging percentage last year. He stole 26 bases in 31 attempts (an 83.87 percent success rate).

Podsednik is a career .277 hitter with a .340 on-base percentage and a .381 slugging percentage. He’s stolen 266 bases in 353 attempts (a 75.35 percent success rate).

Both are left-handed. Gardner has better minor league numbers and is seven years younger. Podsednik has better numbers in 2009, but his numbers were pretty uninspiring in 2007 and 2008, which is why his past three contracts have been minor league deals.

———

Also, yes, I forgot Javier Vazquez in my morning post. He’s obviously locked into a major league job in the rotation. That’s 15 roster spots and 15 roles that are already defined — and they are 15 of the most important spots on the team — which tells you there’s not much work to be done. This Yankees team is close to being set.

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592 Responses to “Another left-handed speed option for left field”

  1. Nick D. December 29th, 2009 at 3:48 pm

    Repost:

    So I guess Holliday has a lot more bargaining power now…no?
    With Derosa and Bay off the market it seems like any bidders for Holliday just lost arguably the two biggest back up plans.
    The Cards front office is probably squirming right now wondering whether to hold steady and maybe give Matt a deadline or make their offer a bit more tasty.
    Tough calls.

  2. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 3:49 pm

    I think some people confuse grittiness with ability.

  3. blake December 29th, 2009 at 3:50 pm

    what if the Cards won’t raise their offer to Holliday?

  4. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 3:51 pm

    It’s a game of chicken, blake.

  5. stuckey December 29th, 2009 at 3:52 pm

    “So I guess Holliday has a lot more bargaining power now…no?
    With Derosa and Bay off the market it seems like any bidders for Holliday just lost arguably the two biggest back up plans.”

    Probably not.

    The market also just shrunk for Holiday, two possible bidders just removed themselves from the market.

  6. CB December 29th, 2009 at 3:53 pm

    (repost):

    # December 29th, 2009 at 3:50 pm

    “Oh well, I’ve been reduced to rooting for the Yanks to sign johnny Gomes…”

    Wave,

    They are going to get another LF. There are far more players in LF than there are open jobs right now.

    I think the yankees would be very attractive to Nady when all is said and done. He’s only going to get a 1 year deal. Hitting in that deep line up would help him a great deal.

    Also, I can’t see any real landing spots for Damon either. Where is he going to go? I don’t think he can be ruled out entirely as an option to come back.

  7. Betsy -high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 3:53 pm

    I’m not sure the Cards do need to raise their offer; why should they when there are no other suitors?

  8. xyz December 29th, 2009 at 3:54 pm

    lots of hate for Gardner by some posters on this site.

    he must have killed a lot of puppies or slept with a lot of girlfriends since I can’t figure out anything else he’s done to garner such animosity…

  9. Bret the Hitman December 29th, 2009 at 3:54 pm

    Please don’t tell me the Sox and Yankees will get into a bidding war over Holliday now.

  10. Benny Blanco December 29th, 2009 at 3:54 pm

    Bay to the mets? Hey, even a blind squirrel finds a nut. Nice move for the mets.

  11. lenNY's Yankees December 29th, 2009 at 3:54 pm

    Thanks for responding to my question Chad!

  12. Elliot December 29th, 2009 at 3:55 pm

    Thanks for the shout out Chad. Podsednik should start in Left and bat 9th, then Gardner would be the fast guy off the bench (Don’t care for Jamie Hoffman)

  13. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 3:55 pm

    The best thing that could happen to Nady/Damon is for Holliday to sign somewhere other than St. Louis.

  14. JJ December 29th, 2009 at 3:55 pm

    Can’t we just have Granderson play LF?

  15. mick December 29th, 2009 at 3:55 pm

    Bret the Hitman December 29th, 2009 at 3:54 pm

    Please don’t tell me the Sox and Yankees will get into a bidding war over Holliday now.
    ==========================================================
    The Yanks could just to raise his price.

  16. upstate kate December 29th, 2009 at 3:55 pm

    I am still thinking the Cards need to sign Holliday. They wont want to risk losing Pujols who wants to play for a contender.
    I am also still thinking Johnny D is better than most of the other options out there, if he will lower his expectations.
    And I still would like the Yankees to get Crawford.

  17. blake December 29th, 2009 at 3:56 pm

    Rich, I know. I don’t see the bay signing changing much other than the cards have now Lost two of their fallback options. If they have already placed their max bid for Holliday then they may be forced to move in so as not to lose out completely. I think it is and has always been a two horse race for Holliday between the Yanks and Cards and one of those teams is bound to be getting a little jumpy.

  18. GeorgeInJax December 29th, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    Podsednik would not be any kind of upgrade. Just say NO.
    Lets go with Gardner in the 9 spot.

  19. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    blake,

    If the lose Holliday, don’t you think they’d scramble for Nady or Damon?

  20. Bret the Hitman December 29th, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    Rich in NJ
    December 29th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
    The best thing that could happen to Nady/Damon is for Holliday to sign somewhere other than St. Louis.

    Why? Do you think St. Louis would bid on them if they lose Holliday?

  21. Phil the Thrill December 29th, 2009 at 3:58 pm

    So, do the Sox wait till after Bay’s physical to start ripping him, or will it start later today?

  22. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 3:58 pm

    Bay to the mets? Hey, even a blind squirrel finds a nut. Nice move for the mets.

    ========

    Mets have blind squirrels while the Yanks have rally squirrels in Old Yankee Stadium righ field foul post. I wonder if he made it to the new stadium safely?

  23. CB December 29th, 2009 at 3:58 pm

    SoS,

    I really don’t like Ankiel much. He is a pretty bad defensive player (he was awful in CF – that was a charade. Maybe he’d be ok in a corner – hasn’t played much). He also has poor contact skills and poor strike zone command. Finally, he gets hurt frequently.

    He has a lot of power when he runs into one, but that doesn’t happen too often.

    I’d rather they wait and see if they can sign Nady (or Damon if possible).

  24. zoso December 29th, 2009 at 3:58 pm

    The Sox are in the same position budget-wise as the Yanks: tapped-out.

    Neither team is in on Holliday, imho.

  25. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 3:59 pm

    repost

    CB and others. What do you think about signing Ankeil for left. I know his offensive numbers werent good. But being a left handed hitter in Y.S. is heaven. I would think his power numbers would increase dramatically with the field and batters around him. Hows his defense? Thoughts?

  26. 213 Area Code December 29th, 2009 at 4:00 pm

    Goodbye, JBay, very glad to see you exit the AL East.

  27. blake December 29th, 2009 at 4:01 pm

    Rich, yea obviously but they may begin to worry that if they wait too long then those guys will be gone as well (even though I don’t see them signing before Holliday). The sox are the wild card in all of this now, will they go into luxary tax land for Hollidday? Will St. Louis raise their offer?

  28. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 4:02 pm

    Not that I dislike Podsednik, but isn’t he just an older version of Brett Gardner?

    =========

    BINGO!! Dont need 2 infield track power hitters on the same team. Gardner will be valuable as a late inning replacement and a pinch runner. There are too many cheap option still out there to be had. Plus we have two pitchers to trade in Gauden and Mitre.

  29. stuckey December 29th, 2009 at 4:02 pm

    I totally recognize that Johnny Damon is a vastly superior offensive player than Brett Gardner (and having said that, I’m not huge Brett Gardner fan either), but I think I’m beginning to like the idea of having plus defensive in the outfield.

    Over the past two consecutive season the Rays and then Mariners demonstrated the value of defense.

    I like and appreciate what Johnny Damon can do, but I think it’s just time to move on.

  30. CB December 29th, 2009 at 4:03 pm

    “So, do the Sox wait till after Bay’s physical to start ripping him, or will it start later today?”

    Well Gammons already laid out that Beirut comment, so there’s that.

    They’ve already painted him as a greedy player who was willing to sacrifice winning and personal accomplishment for $5M.

    Bay’s deal with the mets will turn out to be around $20M more than what the Sox offered.

    But the narrative has already been set so there’s that.

  31. Nick D. December 29th, 2009 at 4:04 pm

    I am still thinking the Cards need to sign Holliday. They wont want to risk losing Pujols who wants to play for a contender.
    I am also still thinking Johnny D is better than most of the other options out there, if he will lower his expectations.
    And I still would like the Yankees to get Crawford.

    —–

    Why? The Cardinals a perennial contenders almost in spite of what they do and the guy has a ring already.

    While this may be true i’m not sold on that thinking.

  32. yankee21 December 29th, 2009 at 4:05 pm

    Ultimately, I think BOS comes in and offers 100m, 6 years, back-loaded offer to Holliday. I believe BOS will give Boras 48 hours for his client to come to a decision. If the offer is shopped or no answer, my bet is BOS takes the deal off the table and goes in another direction.

    BOS knows they need the bat, and to make room for Holliday in the budget they will back-load it and also move Ellsbury who will be getting very expensive in the near term.

    I think the Yankees wind up with Damon as a first choice for 5m or Reed.

  33. Pokey December 29th, 2009 at 4:06 pm

    Which is the same narrative they laid out when Damon signed with the Yanks.

  34. Nick D. December 29th, 2009 at 4:06 pm

    Rich, I know. I don’t see the bay signing changing much other than the cards have now Lost two of their fallback options. If they have already placed their max bid for Holliday then they may be forced to move in so as not to lose out completely. I think it is and has always been a two horse race for Holliday between the Yanks and Cards and one of those teams is bound to be getting a little jumpy.

    —–

    Except for that time when the Red Sox made Holliday an offer and the Yanks repededly said they weren’t interested and haven’t made an offer.

    Other than that…sure.

  35. zoso December 29th, 2009 at 4:06 pm

    The Red Sox will be looking to win tons of 2-1 games next season.

    Good luck holding the Yanks to 1 run.

  36. Laura December 29th, 2009 at 4:07 pm

    From the previous post:

    Rich, I don’t know for sure what the Angels offer was, but I remember reading somewhere that it was only slightly higher than his original $256M that he got from Texas. I think that Alex wanted to stay a Yankee and if we had offered something in the 260M range, he would have taken it. It was better than the only other offer out there and he’d get to stay a Yankee. Just my opinion, of course.

  37. Brian Cashman $$$$$$$ December 29th, 2009 at 4:07 pm

    The Yankees and Johnny Damon are PARTING WAYS.

    That’s a direct quote.

  38. Betsy -high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 4:07 pm

    CB, Nady is coming off of two TJ surgeries – you think the Yankees are going to want to take a chance on him (and he’s no great shakes anyway)? Is he one of your choices because he’s the best of a poor remaining lot?

  39. Nick D. December 29th, 2009 at 4:07 pm

    CB and others. What do you think about signing Ankeil for left. I know his offensive numbers werent good. But being a left handed hitter in Y.S. is heaven. I would think his power numbers would increase dramatically with the field and batters around him. Hows his defense? Thoughts?

    —–

    Just a thought…not every single left handed hitter turns into Babe Ruth just by walking into Yankee stadium.

    Many might begin to think that if they look at these comments for too long.

  40. Phil the Thrill December 29th, 2009 at 4:07 pm

    Except for Muesel, Keller, White and Matsui LF has been a sort of transient, platoony, guest star position in Yankee history.

  41. Pokey December 29th, 2009 at 4:08 pm

    Boston doesn’t want to get into the luxury tax though. Signing MH does exactly that, and eats a lot of what they have budgeted for next offseason.

  42. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 4:08 pm

    Laura

    Yes, 8 years at $260ish would have been far better. The problem is that Cash was closed out of the negotiations.

  43. Frank December 29th, 2009 at 4:09 pm

    “Neither team is in on Holliday, imho.”

    I think both would have been quite interested at the 5/$80M range. While that’s still the best offer Holliday has right now, either Boston or the Yankees getting into it increases those numbers, perhaps significantly. If one of them gets in it, Holliday has a great shot at a $100M+ contract ($17.5M for 6 years = $105M). If they stay out of it, this gets interesting with Holliday and the Cardinals.

  44. tex's friend December 29th, 2009 at 4:09 pm

    Over the past two consecutive season the Rays and then Mariners demonstrated the value of defense.

    ___

    not disagreeing, but what exactly did the mariners prove last year in 3rd place?

  45. Bronx Jeers December 29th, 2009 at 4:09 pm

    I guess it depends on how easily attainable that vesting option is but one more positive thing about this signing is that Sox fans can now stew over the fact that the Sox lost out on Jason Bay over a measly 1.5 mil per year.

  46. Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2009 at 4:10 pm

    “I think the yankees would be very attractive to Nady when all is said and done. He’s only going to get a 1 year deal. Hitting in that deep line up would help him a great deal.

    Also, I can’t see any real landing spots for Damon either. Where is he going to go? I don’t think he can be ruled out entirely as an option to come back.”

    I’d like to see the Yanks sign Nady but I think I saw Cashman quoted to the effect that Nady was too pricey. Maybe that just meant Nady’s current asking price was too high.

    IMO the Yanks and Damon have parted. The Nick Johnson signing has to have reduced Johnny’s value to the Yanks below that of at least some other teams, given that the Yanks evidently don’t see Johnny as a full time OF, the our DH spot is full and in NJ we already have a superb #2 hitter. Can’t see the Yanks bidding what Damon will eventually get somewhere else.

    Once you get past Damon and Nady, all other choices come with significant minuses, IMO. For what the Yanks need, Byrd, Gomes, Dye and Thames is about it, isn’t it? And Gomes. Dye and Thames don’t exactly thrill me from a defensive standpoint.

  47. xxx December 29th, 2009 at 4:10 pm

    The Yankees and Johnny Damon are PARTING WAYS.

    ———————————-

    welcome to three weeks ago. something tells me Johnny will be spending more time on the DL than off it.

    he performed well for the Yanks, but all good things come to an end.

  48. SJ44 December 29th, 2009 at 4:10 pm

    Unless the Red Sox want to expand their budget by over 12 million dollars in 2010, which they don’t, there is no way they are signing Matt Holliday.

    The reality is simple. Once the Yankees acquired Javy Vasquez, their interest in Matt Holliday, and any creative way to doing a deal, ended.

    Every team, yes even the Yankees, have a budget.

    There is no logical reason to have your entire roster set on December 29, especially when there are a lot of interesting guys on the market.

    Not the least of which is Johnny Damon.

    I see folks are in a panic about the bench. Bench guys you acquire during the season when you are able to get a feel for which guys will be available at reasonable cost. You also have the team they are playing for paying 1/3-1/2 of their 2010 salary if you acquire them during the season.

    That’s what the Yankees did with Hinske and Hairston this past season.

  49. Mr. Faded Glory December 29th, 2009 at 4:10 pm

    Podsednik is terrible. Chad I suggest you add whomever suggested him to your SPAM filter.

  50. CB December 29th, 2009 at 4:10 pm

    “Which is the same narrative they laid out when Damon signed with the Yanks.”

    It’s a far richer tradition than that:

    “Ruth had become simply impossible and the Boston club could no longer put up with his eccentricities… He [Ruth] is one of the most selfish and inconsiderate men that ever wore a baseball uniform. He refused to obey the orders of the manager.”

    - Harry Frasee, Red Sox Owner, Jan 6, 1919 on why the Sox sold Ruth.

    http://www.bostonherald.com/sp.....he_bambino

  51. Bret the Hitman December 29th, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    Maybe the Sox in their initial bid on Holliday were doing their best impression of Wesley from Princess Bride when he was ‘mostly’ dead/paralyzed and challenged Prince Humperdink to ‘LAY DOWN YOUR SWORD’

  52. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    The problem with Nady is that we may not know when he can play the OF.

  53. Nick D. December 29th, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    I think both would have been quite interested at the 5/$80M range. While that’s still the best offer Holliday has right now, either Boston or the Yankees getting into it increases those numbers, perhaps significantly. If one of them gets in it, Holliday has a great shot at a $100M+ contract ($17.5M for 6 years = $105M). If they stay out of it, this gets interesting with Holliday and the Cardinals.

    —-

    If both teams are only interested in the 5/80M range…how would them getting onvolved mean a 100M contract?

    Wouldn’t that defeat the entire purpose of being interested in the reduce price tag to begin with?

  54. Nick in SF December 29th, 2009 at 4:12 pm

    Mrs. Bay’s favorite movie is reportedly “Queens Boulevard”.

  55. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 4:12 pm

    Who would want to play for the Sox after seeing what they do to their free agents year after year?

    Why does espn not trash them with this burning briges tactics? All we here about is Yankee payroll. Never the sox are too cheap to take care of their own.

    Why would anyone want to place in that smelly place rather than come to the best new built stadium ever and play for a PROFESSIONAL orginization?

  56. Jerkface December 29th, 2009 at 4:13 pm

    not disagreeing, but what exactly did the mariners prove last year in 3rd place?

    They proved that defense alone does not put you over the top, but they won far more games thanks to it than they had any right to.

    Now a team like the Rays or the Yankees adding defense to other valuable things (offense, pitching) makes it a whole different story.

  57. SJ44 December 29th, 2009 at 4:13 pm

    Wave,

    Nady’s CURRENT asking price is too high. That’s what Cashman meant.

    Once January comes, teams have less, and not more, money to spend. That’s when asking prices for a lot of players will come down.

    The Yankees are well positioned to fill their LF need at that time.

    Despite posturing to the contrary, the odds of Brett Gardner being the starting LF for 2010 is about 1%.

  58. tampayank December 29th, 2009 at 4:13 pm

    “# fark it December 29th, 2009 at 3:45 pm

    I, for one, am psyched at the prospect of no longer seeing Bay in a Red Sox uniform. Check out his ‘09 #s vs. the Yanks:

    51 ABs

    .392 BA

    .475 OBP

    1.161 OPS

    the Yanks simply could not get him out. vaya con Dios, buddy.

    *

    I’m not a Gardner fan..hopefully we have someone else to occupy LF now that Melky is gone

  59. blake December 29th, 2009 at 4:13 pm

    Nick D, if the Yankees are 100% out in Holliday then what is keeping them from signing Reed Johnson and calling it an offseason.. Boston may not have even made an offer (gammons was the source I believe…)

  60. Nick D. December 29th, 2009 at 4:14 pm

    I see folks are in a panic about the bench. Bench guys you acquire during the season when you are able to get a feel for which guys will be available at reasonable cost. You also have the team they are playing for paying 1/3-1/2 of their 2010 salary if you acquire them during the season.
    That’s what the Yankees did with Hinske and Hairston this past season.

    —–

    Thank You SJ44.

    People seem to forget this and seem to think we entered the season with Hinske and Hairston.

  61. Frank December 29th, 2009 at 4:14 pm

    “Boston doesn’t want to get into the luxury tax though. Signing MH does exactly that, and eats a lot of what they have budgeted for next offseason.”

    They have so much dead money coming off after next year, they could do it for a year, I’d guess. They have Ortiz, Lowell, Lugo, Wagner ($1M), Varitek, Beckett and V. Martinez coming off the books. I see V.Mart and maybe Beckett as the only guys they’d be interested in bringing back.

  62. Nick D. December 29th, 2009 at 4:16 pm

    Nick D, if the Yankees are 100% out in Holliday then what is keeping them from signing Reed Johnson and calling it an offseason.. Boston may not have even made an offer (gammons was the source I believe…)

    ——

    I wasn’t saying the Yankees are 100% out.

    I’m just saying, calling it a 2 team race all along was incorrect. The Mets proclaimed interest, and as far as we know the Sox made an offer because no one has refuted those reports.

    So that 4 teams. Granted that is smaller now. But you are stretching to still say the Yanks aren’t 100% out then you can’t say Boston is 100% out either which makes it 3 with the Cars who are 100% in.

  63. spidanyc December 29th, 2009 at 4:17 pm

    If Gardner starts, who replaces him as the speedster off the bench when Nick Johnson walks in the 9th inning of a one run game?

  64. CB December 29th, 2009 at 4:17 pm

    “Mrs. Bay’s favorite movie is reportedly “Queens Boulevard”.”

    I thought she was fond of, “Canals of our City” by Beirut?

    Should we get a Gammons fact check?

  65. Betsy -high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 4:18 pm

    SJ, the thing is – there are really no appealing options for LF. I assume we’d want a LF we could lock up for a few years so that we could buy time for our very young OF prospects to develop. If we sign Damon, it’s a one year thing and then we go through this next year.

    If we don’t improve the bench, then we have Pena (who is not a good hitter), Cervelli, probably Gardner and Hoffman (maybe). That’s bad no matter how you slice it. You think Cash is going to be willing to wait until the trade deadline to move on something? I’m not asking for a starting-quality bench, either – just a solid one.

  66. dee December 29th, 2009 at 4:18 pm

    “If Gardner starts, who replaces him as the speedster off the bench when Nick Johnson walks in the 9th inning of a one run game?”

    Jamie Hoffmann?

  67. stuckey December 29th, 2009 at 4:18 pm

    “not disagreeing, but what exactly did the mariners prove last year in 3rd place?”

    Fair question – by making the highest season to season jump in wins, which I believe was 25.

  68. GeorgeInJax December 29th, 2009 at 4:19 pm

    Would Reed Johnson really be an upgrade to Gardner?
    His stats:
    http://www.baseball-reference......html?redir

    He’s an older light hitting fielder without the base stealing speed of BG.

    NO THANKS!

  69. SJ44 December 29th, 2009 at 4:20 pm

    Here is the problem. You aren’t signing Matt Holliday to a 1 year contract. You sign him, and its a 5-6 year committment.

    The Red Sox already went against their policy in adding a year to John Lackey’s contract. A move, done in a panic, that could very well bite them in the butt.

    They aren’t going to commit “Cardinals money” to Holliday.

    I know fans in a panic believe it will happen but, it won’t.

    Once they signed Mike Cameron, they weren’t signing Bay or Holliday.

    John Henry’s hedge funds have been in the toilet for 2 years. He’s facing a bunch of shareholder lawsuits. He is already at nearly 170 million in payroll. He’s not looking to add more to it and get hit with a larger luxury tax bill than he is already facing.

    Especially with all the dead money he is paying out right now and the uncertain situation with Mike Lowell.

  70. PittsburghYankeeFan December 29th, 2009 at 4:20 pm

    Jason Bay just set the market, just like Abreu set the market.

    Holliday is getting 5/85.
    Damon is getting 2/16-18.
    Nady is getting 3-4/1 with incentives.

    That’s it.

    Boras should just end it now.

  71. CB December 29th, 2009 at 4:21 pm

    “I’d like to see the Yanks sign Nady but I think I saw Cashman quoted to the effect that Nady was too pricey. Maybe that just meant Nady’s current asking price was too high.”

    That’s just right now. Boras was never going to have Nady sign until Holliday and Bay set the market. That was always going to drag and I’m sure the asking price now is ridiculous.

    But reality is going to set in.

    Nady will play this year for his next contract. The ability to hit in the yankees line up and get defensive rest from Gardner will be very helpful to him in reconstructing his value.

    Also, I think your being a bit pessimistic on Damon, if only because Damon still hasn’t faced the true sparcity of the market for him yet. Let’s see how he feels at the end of January if he’s still not signed.

  72. Nick in SF December 29th, 2009 at 4:21 pm

    “Sox fans can now stew over the fact that the Sox lost out on Jason Bay over a measly 1.5 mil per year”

    If you add that to the measly amount they lost Tex for, does that even add up to what they just signed Mike Cameron for?

  73. KPutt December 29th, 2009 at 4:21 pm

    The hold up on Reed Johnson could be sign they’re working on another trade for outfielder … very likely Johnson is the fallback option in case trade falls through.

  74. Frank December 29th, 2009 at 4:22 pm

    “If both teams are only interested in the 5/80M range…how would them getting onvolved mean a 100M contract?”

    Because getting involved would mean offering better than what St. Louis has. It creates a market where now there is virtually none, and allows Boras to refer to Bay’s new deal as a baseline for where his guy should end up.

    If he goes to the Cardinals now and says “Bay got this. You have to do better”, the Cards can say “I saw what Bay got. Minaya’s a stooge. When you show me that someone has offered MATT HOLLIDAY better, then maybe I’ll move off my offer”

  75. GeorgeInJax December 29th, 2009 at 4:23 pm

    spidanyc
    December 29th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
    If Gardner starts, who replaces him as the speedster off the bench when Nick Johnson walks in the 9th inning of a one run game?
    __________________________________________________________
    Ramiro Pena & Kevin Russo have decent speed, but not like GB

    Melky Mesa now in single A could be a call up for a base stealing threat at the end of the year.

  76. yankee21 December 29th, 2009 at 4:23 pm

    I think BOS breaks its budget for a year to get Holliday, they need his stick. They give him 48 hours to decide and if no decision, or Boras shops it to the Yankees or back to STL, then they move on and Holliday will not play in beantown. He makes a lot of sense for that team.

    Forget Holliday becoming a Yankee.

    JMHO.

  77. pat December 29th, 2009 at 4:23 pm

    I’d love to know what Nady is asking for.

    It would help narrow down whether this game of guess the LFer is in vain. Maybe $1 is more than Cash has budgeted at this point.

  78. tampayank December 29th, 2009 at 4:24 pm

    “CB December 29th, 2009 at 4:17 pm

    “Mrs. Bay’s favorite movie is reportedly “Queens Boulevard”.”

    I thought she was fond of, “Canals of our City” by Beirut?

    Should we get a Gammons fact check?”

    lol

    where can I find Gammons columns now? mlb.com?

  79. stuckey December 29th, 2009 at 4:24 pm

    “If we don’t improve the bench, then we have Pena (who is not a good hitter), Cervelli, probably Gardner and Hoffman (maybe). That’s bad no matter how you slice it.”

    Betsy, I think one of our previous exchanges got lost to thread-turnover.

    I’m not going to ask you to acknowledge the Yanks bench (as it stands on Dec. 29th is “good”, but can I get you to acknowledge a similar bench was good enough last year all the way through the trading deadline?

  80. Nick D. December 29th, 2009 at 4:24 pm

    Because getting involved would mean offering better than what St. Louis has. It creates a market where now there is virtually none, and allows Boras to refer to Bay’s new deal as a baseline for where his guy should end up.
    If he goes to the Cardinals now and says “Bay got this. You have to do better”, the Cards can say “I saw what Bay got. Minaya’s a stooge. When you show me that someone has offered MATT HOLLIDAY better, then maybe I’ll move off my offer”

    —–

    But I don’t get how this means the Yanks will get involved.

    Why would they pay more when their whole interest is precated on the fact that they were going to get him at the reduced price?

    If the Cards drop out of the race for Holliday he is screwed. He might not even get as much as Bay.

  81. Bronx Jeers December 29th, 2009 at 4:25 pm

    I guess Bay never heard back from the Beirut Bedouins about that guaranteed 5th year.

  82. scoopemup December 29th, 2009 at 4:25 pm

    Jason Bay is a lot similiar to Dave Kingman,in my humble opinion.Also,DeJesus would fit in LF quite nicely.

  83. Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2009 at 4:25 pm

    With respect to the bench, if the Yanks get a Nady or a Damon then they are back to where they were at the beginning of 2009, which is fine.

    However, if they don’t, and go for a Reed Johnson or Johnny Gomes type solution, then they will be a little worse off (from a bench standpoint, not overall) offensively, and in about the same place pitching-wise, as they were at the start of 2009 (before ARod’s injury).

  84. ko December 29th, 2009 at 4:26 pm

    Now that Boston passed on Bay and assuming they don’t go after Holliday (who is a worse fit for them), the pressure is off for the Yankees to upgrade their outfield with anything more than marginal types. Both teams’ offenses are significantly worse than last year’s. Just like with a bear chasing you, you don’t have to be faster than the bear, just faster than the other guy running away from the bear with you. You have to wonder if Cashman and Epstein had a tacit agreement not to go after outfielders this year.

  85. Christina25 December 29th, 2009 at 4:26 pm

    Yankee21,
    Or should I say. Is that you Boras?

  86. Nick D. December 29th, 2009 at 4:26 pm

    The hold up on Reed Johnson could be sign they’re working on another trade for outfielder … very likely Johnson is the fallback option in case trade falls through.

    —–

    Wouldn’t this be interesting.

    I’d love to have an inside ear telling me who the Yanks were scheming about if this were the case.

  87. SJ44 December 29th, 2009 at 4:27 pm

    Betsy,

    You don’t have to lock up every position on the field for the next few years.

    Right now, no team in baseball can put out a lineup the Yankees can put out, featuring, Jeter, Arod, Tex, Cano, Posada, Granderson and Swisher. That’s seven very good to great offensive players. You add Nick Johnson to the mix, and that’s 8 good hitters in a lineup.

    Folks panicking because, at least right now, its not NINE good hitters in the lineup is ridiculous.

    They also have a #4 starting pitcher who would be a #1 starter on at least half the pitching staffs in baseball. Something lost in the debate.

    Most of the lineup plays everyday. You don’t need a bench until June. At that time, guys will be available. Just as Hairston and Hinske were last year. Bench players are always best found during the season.

    The bench is the LAST thing the Yankees need to deal with right now.

    As long as Johnny Damon is on the market, there are good LF options.

    Also, if they sign a guy like Johnson to platoon with Gardner to start the year, that’s not exactly terrible to start the season.

    They also will have a healthy Arod from Day One in 2010. A far cry from last year when he wasn’t really 100% all season.

    Things aren’t as bleak as you think. Sometimes, you need to take a step back and look at the big picture.

    That’s a very good team reporting to Tampa in February and they aren’t necessarily finished assembling it yet.

  88. yankee21 December 29th, 2009 at 4:28 pm

    Pitt,, I think Boras can successfully argue that Holliday is a superior player to Bay and keeps Holliday from signing until he is dead sure BOS or another big market team (LAA?) is not interested. So the 5/85 won’t cut it for his client, now.

    Also, I’d be shocked if Damon got a 2 year offer in the range you stated.

  89. stuckey December 29th, 2009 at 4:29 pm

    “Would Reed Johnson really be an upgrade to Gardner”

    Against LF pitching? Almost definitely and significantly, according to the link you provide.

    And I believe that would be his likely role.

  90. Pokey December 29th, 2009 at 4:29 pm

    You’re forgetting though that their owner thinks they are a small market team.

  91. Nick D. December 29th, 2009 at 4:30 pm

    see SJ44′s last post for a similar view to mine on many subjects.

  92. Nick D. December 29th, 2009 at 4:31 pm

    Fun Fact of the Day!:

    @jcrasnick From ESPN’s Mark Simon: Jason Bay is the first native Canadian to play for Mets since SS Brian Ostrosser, from Ontario, logged 5 ABs in 1973

  93. Frank December 29th, 2009 at 4:32 pm

    “But I don’t get how this means the Yanks will get involved.”

    It doesn’t.

    “Why would they pay more when their whole interest is precated on the fact that they were going to get him at the reduced price?”

    They wouldn’t, which is why I don’t think they get involved. I was merely saying that if they, or Boston, did, it would create something for Boras to work with negotiation-wise.

    “If the Cards drop out of the race for Holliday he is screwed. He might not even get as much as Bay.”

    True. And if that were to happen then I’d guess the Yankees are right back in it at in the 5/$80M range. If the Cards just stand pat with their offer or improve it slightly, they’re in the drivers seat.

    Guess what I’m saying is that the only way the Yankees get in is if the Cards walk and they can get him at what they perceive to be a value.

  94. tex's friend December 29th, 2009 at 4:34 pm

    Johnny’s value is dropping quicker than Holliday.

  95. rconn23 December 29th, 2009 at 4:34 pm

    Talking about Boston fans, media, team officials etc., throwing former players under the bus – NESN quickly cobbled together a one-hour program (i.e slam job) on Manny Ramirez shortly after the Bay trade.

    It featured a selection of hack columnists like Gerry Callahan and other of that ilk, telling supposed behind the scenes stories about what an albatross Ramirez had beento the team.

    It was remarkably sleazy, but when you live in this area you expect nothing less.

  96. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 4:36 pm

    The Yankees and Johnny Damon are PARTING WAYS.

    That’s a direct quote.

    =========

    Doesnt get old. Im going miss this quote once he signs with the pirates or royals.

  97. Doreen December 29th, 2009 at 4:36 pm

    I’m trying not to be too naive here, but…

    Even though Bay is going to sign with the Mets for whatever his contract is, does that really guarantee that Holliday is going to get more?

    I mean, IF the Yankees, Red Sox and Cardinals, none of them, wish to sign an outfielder for more than what the Cardinals are currently offering Holliday, doesn’t he either have to sign for the top offer, whatever it is (even if it is less than Bay), or not sign at all?

    I think it is sort of a fallacy to take it for granted that Holliday MUST get more than Bay.

    In actuality, that may be what happens, but the more time goes by without anyone making an offer more than is currently on the table (supposedly) from the Cardinals, the greater the chance that Holliday will sign with the Cardinals for that amount, no?

  98. Jay December 29th, 2009 at 4:36 pm

    Nady sucks, so does DeRosa.

    Yanks want players with OBP’s north of .350, even from the #9 spot.

    Pass on low OBP players.

  99. Bret the Hitman December 29th, 2009 at 4:36 pm

    We should’ve just signed Figgins for LF. He’s better than any of these scrap heap types remaining.

  100. Horace Clarke December 29th, 2009 at 4:36 pm

    I’m not sure how anyone else felt when a fly ball was hit to left this year. I always cringed with Damon out their and of course anything hit in the gap or by the wall was an adventure. Damon brought alot the Yankees lineup as well as to the clubhouse. Damon is the ideal #2 hitter in this Yankee lineup, but i’m not sure i would feel comfortable with him in the OF most of the year. I (and probably the pitching staff) would much rather see a good defensive player roaming LF as i think they currently have enough offense from the top of the order.

  101. Nick D. December 29th, 2009 at 4:38 pm

    We should’ve just signed Figgins for LF. He’s better than any of these scrap heap types remaining.

    —-

    I’m not going to disagree that having figgins would have been great but the dude was expensive.

  102. Bret the Hitman December 29th, 2009 at 4:39 pm

    If you think of LF Yankee stadium as CF elsewhere, then the Yankees really need a centerfielder or at least a younger, healthier athlete than some of these podunk options on the board.

  103. Nick in SF December 29th, 2009 at 4:40 pm

    From a marketing perspective, Jason Bay is a great signing for the Mets. Neither NY team has really been able to tap into the burgeoning Little Ottawa community on Long Island.

  104. bru December 29th, 2009 at 4:40 pm

    i can’t see st louis signing holliday & pujols eating up a massive percentage of their payroll

    i forgot what percentage it was

  105. mdot December 29th, 2009 at 4:40 pm

    SJ44,

    Great post.

    It is amazing how paranoid everyone is about our #9 hitter. Overall, we have a great team. If things don’t work out, you can count on Cash to make a trade before the deadline.

  106. Bill December 29th, 2009 at 4:40 pm

    Gardner stinks, he can’t hit lefties or righties. We are platooning a player who stinks.

    Reed Johnson is 33, has a bad back, and can’t hit righties to save his life. Gardner can’t hit lefties or righties.

    We’re the New York Yankees. the NY Yankees do not have a Reed Johnson/Gardner platoon.

  107. Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2009 at 4:41 pm

    I don’t think anyone is panicking about the Yanks’ 2010 prospects.

    Compared to the start of the 2009 off-season, the Yanks are in the catbird’s seat, as Mel Allen would have said.

    However, considering the competition from the Sox (and possibly even the Rays?), you can’t get complacent. Posada stayed healthy most of 2009, Jeter had another career year, Cano had a great year, Swisher was excellent. There’s plenty of room for a downside bounce in 2010.

    There’s reason to be at least a little worried vs LHP, and right now we don’t have the depth to replace an injury, offensively, the way we did last year with Nady’s injury.

    Obviously, the off-season isn’t over and there are still opportunities out there to be exploited. But until they actually are, don’t begrudge us worriers doing a little worrying. Where’s the harm?

  108. Nick D. December 29th, 2009 at 4:42 pm

    Gardner stinks, he can’t hit lefties or righties. We are platooning a player who stinks.
    Reed Johnson is 33, has a bad back, and can’t hit righties to save his life. Gardner can’t hit lefties or righties.
    We’re the New York Yankees. the NY Yankees do not have a Reed Johnson/Gardner platoon.

    —–

    Why not?

  109. Bret the Hitman December 29th, 2009 at 4:42 pm

    WE ARE THE NEW YORK YANKEES

    :mad:

  110. upstate kate December 29th, 2009 at 4:42 pm

    Ideally (in my mind anyway) Damon would have re-signed before NJ and been mostly DH and fill-in LF…but that ship has sailed. I still think he is valuable as the #2 hitter, and could be the LF w/ Gardner coming in as a defensive replacement (after he uses his speed on the bases)

  111. mick December 29th, 2009 at 4:43 pm

    Nick in SF December 29th, 2009 at 4:40 pm

    From a marketing perspective, Jason Bay is a great signing for the Mets. Neither NY team has really been able to tap into the burgeoning Little Ottawa community on Long Island.
    ======================================================
    Think of what it will do for Flushing Bay. Great plumbing or toilet bowl co. ad.

  112. Train December 29th, 2009 at 4:44 pm

    You get what you pay for. If you shop in the bargain basement, then you will get bargain basement production.

    Nady stinks and is coming off 2 TJs
    Reed Johnson is 33 and can’t hit righties
    Podsednik? Gardner 2.0.
    Byrd? Hits like Cody Ransom outside Texas.

    The only 2 guys left who are worth it are Damon or Holliday. Time to pay up to get one of them.

  113. upstate kate December 29th, 2009 at 4:44 pm

    Nick in SF
    I live close to Ottawa and Montreal…they are not baseball cities.

  114. tex's friend December 29th, 2009 at 4:44 pm

    With NJ in NY now, i dont think even if Damon is back, that he is the #2 hitter anymore.

  115. Patrick December 29th, 2009 at 4:45 pm

    Scott Posednik is not a good player. Plain and simple.

    Why all this talk about potential left fielders and no mention of Marlon Byrd? He is a plus defender with a good bat. Clearly the best option still on the market.

  116. Nick D. December 29th, 2009 at 4:46 pm

    You get what you pay for. If you shop in the bargain basement, then you will get bargain basement production.
    Nady stinks and is coming off 2 TJs
    Reed Johnson is 33 and can’t hit righties
    Podsednik? Gardner 2.0.
    Byrd? Hits like Cody Ransom outside Texas.
    The only 2 guys left who are worth it are Damon or Holliday. Time to pay up to get one of them.

    ——

    Or time to not and win anyway.

    I like that idea.

  117. tex's friend December 29th, 2009 at 4:46 pm

    Everyone says the Damon ship has sailed, but it sounds just like Pettitte’s saga from last winter. Wanted 12 mil, refused 10, looked like he was gone, and then back at $5.5M. Do we think that if Damon comes down to 1/5.5 that the yankees dont go for it?

  118. Betsy -high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 4:47 pm

    Stuckey, yes – I will concede that point.

    SJ, thanks for giving me (once again) proper perspective. I hate to sound like a spoiled fan when I don’t consider myself to be – just concerned (but that’s me). Yankee fans have absolutely nothing to complain about. We have an owner committed to winning. We have a GM who is very shrewd and creative and who is on the same page as the owner (no mean achievement). We have an amazing roster of amazing players who are incredibly easy to root for. Hmm, I think I should print this out and read it during those occasions when I’m feeling frustrated for no reason other than because I can.

  119. stuckey December 29th, 2009 at 4:48 pm

    “But until they actually are, don’t begrudge us worriers doing a little worrying. Where’s the harm?”

    Discourse…

  120. Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2009 at 4:48 pm

    “Do we think that if Damon comes down to 1/5.5 that the yankees dont go for it?”

    Damon will go for more than that so why speculate?

  121. Bret the Hitman December 29th, 2009 at 4:48 pm

    Color me spoiled.

    I want Holliday to be a Yankee.

  122. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 4:48 pm

    Nick D,
    Yankees Stadium made the second coming of the babe with
    Big time slugger Maa$.

    Its the only other magical place i know that has mickey.

  123. tex's friend December 29th, 2009 at 4:49 pm

    Damon will go for more than that so why speculate?

    ___

    What has happened that makes you think someone wants Damon for more than that?

  124. GeorgeInJax December 29th, 2009 at 4:49 pm

    stuckey
    December 29th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
    “Would Reed Johnson really be an upgrade to Gardner”
    Against LF pitching? Almost definitely and significantly, according to the link you provide.
    And I believe that would be his likely role.
    —————————————————-
    Last Year’s production for Reed Johnson
    165 AB 23 Runs 42 Hits 10 SB 2 3B 4 HR 22 RBI
    2 SB 13 BB 27 SO .255 Avg .330 OBP

    How is this so much better than Gardner’s rookie year (last year)

    I’m not so close minded to think that Brett Gardner is the only answer. But if he is to be replaced or platooned in LF let it be a WORTHWHILE ugrade.

  125. john December 29th, 2009 at 4:49 pm

    Damon would be our # 2 hitter if we sign him.. Johnson “clogs up” the bases

  126. Don 42 December 29th, 2009 at 4:50 pm

    The Yanks are waiting for Damon to come crawling back. They know he fits their lineup like a glove, and would make our lineup circular. They also know he can be had for a 1 yr deal on their teams.

    Damon currently has no suitors. Mets signed Bay. Holliday to STL is inevitable. Giants signed DeRosa. Where is Damon’s market coming from?

    Yanks can get Damon at their price. Same situation with Andy last year. They waited and waited and didn’t cave and they eventually got him. If Damon is forced to take a 1 yr/$6 mil dollar deal from the Oakland A’s or the Yankees, he’s taking the Yankees offer.

    People are saying that he won’t swallow his pride or his ego is too big… well he is going to have to sign a 1 yr cheap contract with some team. So why not the team he wants to be with? He is going to go to Oakland or KC out of spite when the contact terms are the same?

  127. mick December 29th, 2009 at 4:50 pm

    tex’s friend December 29th, 2009 at 4:46 pm

    Everyone says the Damon ship has sailed, but it sounds just like Pettitte’s saga from last winter. Wanted 12 mil, refused 10, looked like he was gone, and then back at $5.5M. Do we think that if Damon comes down to 1/5.5 that the yankees dont go for it?
    =========================================================
    you might be on to something…why not an incentive laden deal for damon?

  128. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 4:51 pm

    “It is amazing how paranoid everyone is about our #9 hitter. Overall, we have a great team. If things don’t work out, you can count on Cash to make a trade before the deadline.”

    Blatant mischaracterizations are funny.

    Some people would prefer to exploit a market opportunity in order to obtain a #5 hitter that happens to play LF

    But if that’s paranoia to you, so be it.

  129. tex's friend December 29th, 2009 at 4:52 pm

    NJ clogs up the bases? Maybe but since he is on them more than almost all MLB players, in front of two big home run hitters, i think it’s worth his lack of speed.

  130. Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2009 at 4:52 pm

    “What has happened that makes you think someone wants Damon for more than that?”

    Based on the contracts already signed Damon is worth more than $5.5MM, and probably has no issue with going to the highest bidder, so despite the absence of rumors I’m sure he will go for north of that.

  131. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 4:52 pm

    I’m not sure how anyone else felt when a fly ball was hit to left this year. I always cringed with Damon out their and of course anything hit in the gap or by the wall was an adventure.

    ======

    That makes the two of us Horace. I had the hand over the face peaking through cracks of my fingers hoping it wouldnt bounce out.

  132. MTU December 29th, 2009 at 4:53 pm

    RE Nady:

    Do we even know that he can throw a baseball from the outfield on a day to day basis ?

    If we are not going to upgrade significantly this year why not just go with Gardy , at least until ASB ?

    Holliday may be too expensive for the Yankee budget (personally I doubt it) but MH represents a bargain for a player of his caliber.

    I hope the Yanks do not pass on him despite some of the other issues it may cause.

    Yanks – go for it. Give MH a 9 figure offer and he’s yours.

    Why let the Cards get him on the low bid ?

    JMHO

  133. Brian Cashman $$$$$ December 29th, 2009 at 4:53 pm

    The New York Yankees and Johnny Damon are PARTING WAYS.

    That’s what I said.

  134. Bret the Hitman December 29th, 2009 at 4:54 pm

    MTU,

    Why let the Cards get him on the low bid ?

    Good question.

  135. F7 TD December 29th, 2009 at 4:55 pm

    Tex,

    I don’t think Damon is out of the equation at all. Fans may want him to be, but I don’t think he is. He is clearly, far and away, the best option for LF that is still out there after Holliday. He also has no market and has to “sing for his supper”.

    Not that they are necessarily waiting for him to come back, but I still think he is an option.

  136. Betsy -high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 4:55 pm

    Wave, Why should Cano get worse? Why can’t he stay the same or improve? It’s not like he’s not very talented. I also don’t see any reason why Swisher would get worse….If anything, maybe he’ll be better as Kevin Long is going to be breaking down his swing. I honestly think Jeter can hit for as long as he wants to.

    Cash is not complacent, anything but – that’s why he’s not stood still this off-season.

  137. blake December 29th, 2009 at 4:55 pm

    If Holliday really is off the table (which I’m still not convinced of) I would wait for Damon to come back around or stick with Gardner if that doesn’t happen..the other options stink or are DL stints waiting to happen

  138. stuckey December 29th, 2009 at 4:55 pm

    “Some people would prefer to exploit a market opportunity in order to obtain a #5 hitter that happens to play LF”

    In what sense does Matt Holiday represent a “market opportunity”.

    *(that’s a genuine question btw, not a sarcastic rhetorical one)

  139. Drive 4- 5 December 29th, 2009 at 4:56 pm

    Nick in SF
    December 29th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
    “Sox fans can now stew over the fact that the Sox lost out on Jason Bay over a measly 1.5 mil per year”

    “If you add that to the measly amount they lost Tex for, does that even add up to what they just signed Mike Cameron for?”

    Bingo!Now that’s some nasty chowda:)

  140. mdot December 29th, 2009 at 4:56 pm

    Rich in NJ,

    Its paranoia when people are acting as if what we have is not good enough to compete.

    The yanks have to draw the line somewhere when it comes to their budget. Obviously, they have established somewhat of a budget because they are taking next year into consideration when they will have to resign Mo and Jeter.

    Would you rather them throw money away now for a want and ignore their needs in the upcoming future?

  141. MTU December 29th, 2009 at 4:56 pm

    Don’t settle for hamburger Hal. It’s bad for you.

    You can afford filet mignon.

  142. Howard Cosell December 29th, 2009 at 4:56 pm

    Trade MONTERO for DESMOND JENNINGS and start him in LF with Gardiner….Jennings becomes a younger Damon.

    HC

  143. Nick in SF December 29th, 2009 at 4:56 pm

    It’s not a crime to dream big.

  144. Mike December 29th, 2009 at 4:57 pm

    Wave,

    Which team is Damon going to get his $$$ from? If the Cards eventually sign Holliday, what is the market for him?

  145. stuckey December 29th, 2009 at 4:57 pm

    “Yanks – go for it. Give MH a 9 figure offer and he’s yours.”

    I think that some fans can use the term “9 figures” so casually is what some other fans respond to.

    Can ANYONE argue that the contracts given to Teixeira, Alex Rodriquez and CC Sabathia has jaded some Yankees fans to what “9 figures” means?

  146. CB December 29th, 2009 at 4:57 pm

    “Why should Cano get worse? Why can’t he stay the same or improve? It’s not like he’s not very talented. I also don’t see any reason why Swisher would get worse….”

    Both of these players were terrible in 2008 so there is recent performance precedent.

  147. MTU December 29th, 2009 at 4:58 pm

    Nick-

    True.

    But big time crime is a dream.

  148. Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2009 at 4:58 pm

    Betsy-

    Of course Cano or Swisher could get better and I didn’t mean to suggest otherwise.

    But, of course, they could also have worse seasons than last year and I think the probability of that is significantly greater than zero.

  149. ko December 29th, 2009 at 4:58 pm

    Jeter, Teixiera, A-Rod and Cano are the great Yankee hitters. Posada’s really good, but you always have to worry with a 38 year old catcher. Granderson and Swisher are good hitters in certain situations, lousy in others (Granderson can’t hit lefties, Swisher can’t hit breaking pitches) and they can always be pitched to in clutch situations. That’s far from a great offense. However, its better than Boston’s (now that Bay is officially gone) and on a par with Tampa’s – and that’s all that really matters.

  150. Nome December 29th, 2009 at 4:59 pm

    “Would you rather them throw money away now for a want and ignore their needs in the upcoming future?”

    If we sign a LF now, we don’t need to go after an inferior one (Crawford), next year.

    If we go with this platoon thing this year, we still are going to be looking for a LF next season.

  151. Bret the Hitman December 29th, 2009 at 4:59 pm

    MTU
    December 29th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
    Don’t settle for hamburger Hal. It’s bad for you.

    Loaded with Omega 6 fats, saturated fats and carcinogens.

  152. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 4:59 pm

    “In what sense does Matt Holiday represent a “market opportunity”.

    *(that’s a genuine question btw, not a sarcastic rhetorical one)”

    Based on the fact that he is nearly as good as Teix based on WAR, wRC+, OPS+, and he will probably end up signing for 50-60% of the price.

  153. Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2009 at 5:01 pm

    “Which team is Damon going to get his $$$ from? If the Cards eventually sign Holliday, what is the market for him?”

    I don’t know, but Damon had a real good year in 2009 and there are a lot of major league teams out there. I would never jump to the conclusion that there’s no market for him.

  154. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 5:01 pm

    mdot

    The problem is that you are painting with a broad brush. Yes, some people are overanxious, but others have fact-based reasons for wanting to make various upgrades.

    As for the future, there have been reports that they would pursue Crawford next season. The counterargument, and I think it’s compelling, is that Holliday is a much better player, so why wait?

  155. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 5:02 pm

    Im all for playing with a GHOST MAN in left. But for everyone saying that we’re talking about the 9TH hitter. Thats not necesarilly true. We nee a #5 hitter to replace the #9 hitter. Its a trickle down effect. We dont have anyone to protect Alex right now. Once we get that person, it will solve the 5 and the 9 spots.

  156. Bret the Hitman December 29th, 2009 at 5:03 pm

    No protection for Arod.

  157. Betsy -high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 5:03 pm

    CB, but that was Cano’s first bad year and basically the same for Swisher. I’m assuming 2008 was an outlier for both…..though I admit (and this is hardly flattering) that I wonder how Cano will be without Melky. I guess if Kelleher keeps on him, he should be ok.

    Wave, we could say that about most hitters in any lineup..I just don’t see any reason to worry about them having bad years when the likelihood is that they won’t.

  158. Laura December 29th, 2009 at 5:03 pm

    Bay is probably kicking himself for not taking BOS’s offer. Just like Damon’s kicking himself for not taking ours. These guys gambled and lost. I’d feel sorry for them if they weren’t still going to be millionaires. LOL!

  159. mdot December 29th, 2009 at 5:03 pm

    There are other options available next year and we’ve seen what Crawford can do in the AL East.

  160. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 5:03 pm

    And if Crawford is resigned? Do we trade our Crown Jewel for a left fielder or do we continue to play musical chairs ala the 90 dynasty teams?

  161. Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2009 at 5:05 pm

    Betsy-

    Throughout history winning has probably been the biggest contributor to complacency.

    Not saying Cashman is complacent – his moves so far demonstrate that at least so far he has not been complacent – but I don’t want him to develop any complacent tendencies!

  162. blake December 29th, 2009 at 5:05 pm

    Its not being paranoid. Neglecting the outfield probably won’t affect them in 2010. They will be the favorite if they do nothing else this winter. However two or three years from now when other players start to decline it will make a difference. I have said all along that if they can’t afford Holliday th

  163. stuckey December 29th, 2009 at 5:05 pm

    “If we go with this platoon thing this year, we still are going to be looking for a LF next season.”

    Not if Gardner proves to be capable hitting righthanders (and conceivably lefthanders) enough to man the 9 hole they won’t.

    What makes you think the Yankees will simply be biding their time for another option?

  164. Nick D. December 29th, 2009 at 5:06 pm

    mdot
    The problem is that you are painting with a broad brush. Yes, some people are overanxious, but others have fact-based reasons for wanting to make various upgrades.
    As for the future, there have been reports that they would pursue Crawford next season. The counterargument, and I think it’s compelling, is that Holliday is a much better player, so why wait?

    —-

    some some salary can come off the books before we make the deal?

    Timing is everything.

  165. MTU December 29th, 2009 at 5:06 pm

    We have a problem in LF.

    Let’s FIX it !

    Create the new Murderer’s row.

    Before they pull the plug on you with the next Baseball agreement Hal.

    The extra 10-15 mill is gonna make you even more in the long run.

    Tell Cash to sign MH. Get er done !

  166. mick December 29th, 2009 at 5:06 pm

    Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2009 at 5:01 pm

    “Which team is Damon going to get his $$$ from? If the Cards eventually sign Holliday, what is the market for him?”

    I don’t know, but Damon had a real good year in 2009 and there are a lot of major league teams out there. I would never jump to the conclusion that there’s no market for him.
    =================================================

    WYH-Is there anything wrong with an incentive laden deal for Damon for one year, then he can walk as a FA in 2011.
    It worked out well for Andy.

  167. Doreen December 29th, 2009 at 5:07 pm

    Has this question ever been answered?

    During the season, knowing that Holliday was going to be a FA, all I ever heard was how he was a product of Coors Field and not worth pursuing. I heard this from many different places as well as here.

    I don’t know enough about Matt Holliday to make any sweeping judgments.

    So, I want to know why he has become the be-all and end-all “must-have” of the the 2009 post-season?

    Is it because he is the best LF? Or is it because he is the best LF AVAILABLE?

    I know he’s a good player. I do wonder if he’s worth 5 years. Though, now that AJax is no longer on queue, I don’t think it would be a bad signing for the Yankees.

    I just don’t understand the change in perception – Coors Field product vs. Must-have LF.

  168. Betsy -high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 5:07 pm

    Ko, it’s a great offense. Most pitchers in baseball are RH and Swisher had close to 30 HRs and 90 RBIs….

  169. Brave December 29th, 2009 at 5:08 pm

    Plenty of teams who could use Damon -

    Giants (DeRosa is going to be their 1B/3B)
    White Sox (Have wanted Damon for years)
    Cubs (been looking at OF’ers all winter)

    Oakland
    Royals
    Tampa (Move Crawford to right)
    Angels (if they trade Rivera)
    Braves (Still need a bat and don’t want Melky)

    Damon will get a deal from one of those teams.

  170. mdot December 29th, 2009 at 5:09 pm

    Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 5:01 pm

    mdot

    The problem is that you are painting with a broad brush. Yes, some people are overanxious, but others have fact-based reasons for wanting to make various upgrades.

    It’s not painting with a broad brush. What happens a few years down the line when all these player we’ve tied up in large contracts start to decline? We won’t be able to move them. No telling how productive they will be, we do have arod until he’s 43, posada is already 38, pettite is 38, jeter is 37 just to name a few. It may be in the yanks best interest to keep this young and flexible at certain positions while they still can.

  171. blake December 29th, 2009 at 5:09 pm

    the Yankees have no outfielders in the minors that are close. Ghost man in LF won’t look so hot when Jeter is 38 and Rivera is retired.

    Holliday may be the best outfielder available for several years and he’s at a wholesale price due to the market..

  172. Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2009 at 5:10 pm

    Betsy-

    I picked Cano and Swisher for exactly the reasons CB said, that they both had big bounce-back seasons in 2009. You have to consider 2008 in thinking about 2010 – I think the chances of a downside bounce from at least one of them is greater than you think.

    Also, the chances of the Captain repeating 2009? Or Posada? Time marches on you know.

    The big upside in my mind is that the combination of Granderson and Johnson will probably win more games than Damon and Matsui (despite the LHP weakness), and we aren’t likely to experience a repeat Wang episode in 2010.

    But there’s room for a dropoff offensively.

  173. SJ44 December 29th, 2009 at 5:10 pm

    Rich,

    The problem is, Holliday would cost more than Crawford and I don’t believe the Yankees think he is an 80+ million dollar player.

    Bret,

    The problem with signing Figgins to play LF is, he’s not a LF and has no interest in playing LF. He wanted to play third base and signed with Seattle (for 9 million a season) to play third base.

    Folks need to remember one thing about Johnny Damon.

    He had a ton of money tied up in Stanford Financial. A TON.

    The government froze his assets once Stanford got arrested.

    I don’t know if how much, if any, of his assets have been unfrozen by the government since, (at least to my knowledge) anybody with money in Stanford Financial the government has siezed.

    Perhaps that’s driving his (and Boras’, since Scott put him Stanford Financial) salary demands.

    January is a month in which teams budgets are just about dry.

    Wouldn’t shock me if the Yankees and Johnny find a way to make it work for both parties if he is still on the market.

  174. MTU December 29th, 2009 at 5:10 pm

    Budget.

    What budget.

    Since when did a money making machine have to worry about and extra 10-20 Mill.

    Come on.

    If your gonna go as far as you have why not go all the way.

    Make the circle perfect please dont leave a gap.

  175. Betsy -high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 5:10 pm

    WYH, I don’t think we have anything to fear; Cashman is almost never satisfied. If he thinks he can improve the team, he will

  176. Betsy -high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 5:11 pm

    Doreen, good question…

  177. mdot December 29th, 2009 at 5:14 pm

    S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 5:03 pm

    And if Crawford is resigned? Do we trade our Crown Jewel for a left fielder or do we continue to play musical chairs ala the 90 dynasty teams?

    It worked back then. No team will ever be perfect. There will always be needs. Sometimes, its the not so big name players who make the big plays. We have 8 proven major leaguers ready to take the field, is it so bad to give gardner a chance to see what he can do?

  178. Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2009 at 5:15 pm

    mick-

    I think the circumstances were different for Andy. The Yanks needed another quality starter, Andy wanted to pitch for the Yanks, the question was just where they would land on salary.

    I think Damon’s situation is different. Although the Yanks couls use another outfielder, it isn’t clear they feel they need one, Damon has other options and I think the Yanks will be outbid by someone. JMHO.

  179. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 5:15 pm

    “There are other options available next year and we’ve seen what Crawford can do in the AL East.”

    You don’t think

    Crawford > Holliday

    do you?

  180. Betsy -high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 5:15 pm

    Wave, Cano is very talented to say the least. The only reason to suspect a down year would be if his head isn’t in it…and if that’s the case the Yankees should trade him ASAP. Swisher’s year was in line with his career except for 2008…I’m willing to assume that was an outlier. I really think Jeter can hit for as long as he plays…..Po is, I admit, the one most likely to decline. We’ll see……

    The best argument to signing Holliday is that we have zilch, nadda, zip in the upper minors except for Montero and Romine. We could potentially have 2 OF spots to fill in in the next couple of years and we have no internal options. Cash is too smart not to have thought of this (he’s always two steps ahead), so I assume he’s making his plans.

  181. Drive 4- 5 December 29th, 2009 at 5:16 pm

    I think saying that all we’re talking about is “our number 9 hitter” is very simplistic. We’re only talking about a hole in the 9th spot because we have Nick Johnson as our DH batting 2nd. What team ever has their DH bat 2nd? Johnson has to prove he can gut it out for 145 for the first time ever. If his frailty becomes an issue in 2010 then a lot of dominoes are gonna come falling down.The lineup gets very short very quickly. Get a real left fielder with a productive bat or else regret the decision as soon as there’s an injury.

  182. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 5:16 pm

    If the season was to start today.
    Whos our #5 hitter?
    Posada?
    Cano?
    Granderson?
    Johnson?
    Gardner? Just kidding.

  183. MTU December 29th, 2009 at 5:17 pm

    Drive-

    Word.

  184. mdot December 29th, 2009 at 5:18 pm

    # Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 5:15 pm

    “There are other options available next year and we’ve seen what Crawford can do in the AL East.”

    You don’t think

    Crawford > Holliday

    do you?

    Honestly, I haven’t watched enough of Holliday to judge that. They are def different type of players. So I guess it comes down to what you want more or feel is better suited for the team.

  185. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 5:20 pm

    SJ44

    Don’t you think Holliday is about 20% better than Crawford?

    So if Holliday gets a contract with an AAV of $18m, will Crawford get one worth less than $14.4m?

    The other issue is consistency. Holliday puts up stats according to any metric year after year.

    Crawford, otoh, is very inconsistent.

  186. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 5:20 pm

    “Honestly, I haven’t watched enough of Holliday to judge that. They are def different type of players. So I guess it comes down to what you want more or feel is better suited for the team.”

    Production trumps all.

  187. stuckey December 29th, 2009 at 5:21 pm

    “Its not being paranoid. Neglecting the outfield probably won’t affect them in 2010. They will be the favorite if they do nothing else this winter. However two or three years from now when other players start to decline it will make a difference.”

    So what does the FA OF market look like 3 years from now?

    How long do low-level minor leaguers like Heathcott, DeLeon, Mesa take to develop?

    Do we know what the trade market will look like in 3 years?

    The flaw in your premise is you’re assuming Holliday will be the last, best option for 3, 4 years. And that’s a ridiculous thing to predict.

  188. MTU December 29th, 2009 at 5:21 pm

    Cards must be getting a bit edgy about now.

    Hope they are not desparate enough to up their bid.

    Dont want a bidding war breaking out.

    Stealth is much, much better.

    Remember where your bread is buttered Scott.

  189. trisha - OPPC forever - (new lucky picture from last day at the old Stadium) BRING ON THE GHOSTS! December 29th, 2009 at 5:22 pm

    Just popped in to say the following about Jason Bay signing with the Mets:

    :D :D :D

    But not to worry Suxers. After all, you have Marco Scutaro and John Lackey.

    :lol:

    Cold outside kidss, but warm when you’re on the inside looking out! GO YANKEES!!!

  190. CB December 29th, 2009 at 5:22 pm

    “Folks need to remember one thing about Johnny Damon.

    He had a ton of money tied up in Stanford Financial. A TON.”

    No idea if it’s true, but I’ve read that Nady had an even greater proportion of his wealth tied in with Stanford.

  191. Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2009 at 5:23 pm

    Betsy-

    I’ve never thought the Yanks would sign Holliday, so I’m not disappointed on that score.

    I think the answer is simple – the Yanks think they can make the playoffs without signing him, and see no reason to spend the kind of money it would take to sign him.

    I think the Yanks have decided they can win it all again with a budget of around $200MM, and will stick to that, only perhaps marginally upgrading in the OF with someone like Gomes or Byrd, perhaps not even that.

    Is that complacent, if true? I don’t know, I’m sure it makes good business sense to them.

  192. mdot December 29th, 2009 at 5:24 pm

    # Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 5:20 pm

    “Honestly, I haven’t watched enough of Holliday to judge that. They are def different type of players. So I guess it comes down to what you want more or feel is better suited for the team.”

    Production trumps all.

    I would not be the least bit upset if the yanks were to sign Holliday, just as once he isn’t dropping balls in the outfield.

    I wouldn’t be upset if we didn’t either, I’m fine with giving gardner a shot out there as well.

  193. Betsy -high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 5:27 pm

    SI_JonHeyman #redsox found some “physical issues” with #bay. #mets are believed to be aware of this. med. exam could be a marathon

  194. blake December 29th, 2009 at 5:28 pm

    Stuckey, so you want to wait around until jeter and the rest get old and them hope there is someone out there to help. I’m not predicting there will be nobody Available in three years, I’m just saying you can’t count on there being, especially at a position that’s thin throughout the system. I habe never said the Yankees are doomed and will have no chance to win without Holliday. I think theu will be fine without him, but I do think he could be a good deal and be a guy that outplays his contract which is what you want…

  195. stuckey December 29th, 2009 at 5:28 pm

    “The lineup gets very short very quickly.”

    No, the line-up gets SHORTER.

    This is the mental block so many of your seem to have. You’re not BEGINNING with the control factor – that being the Yankee offense is ALREADY vastly superior to most other teams.

    If Johnson spends time on the DH, it doesn’t create an emergency situation.

    Yankees scored PLENTY of runs in April 2009 when Alex Rodriquez was hanging out in Tampa.

    The Yankees scored plenty of runs in May 2009 when A-Rod missed the first week and Posada missed most of the month.

    What some of you guys don’t seem to appreciate (or understand) is the Yankees don’t start scoring 3 runs a game if someone hits the DL for 3 weeks.

  196. bardos December 29th, 2009 at 5:29 pm

    interesting about Damon’s drive for dollahs this winter. We have to understand that a player’s agent (Boras) not only negotiates contracts with teams, but also assists with all aspects of player’s lifestyle, something which almost always includes managing their money.

    Boras is the one who steered Damon to Stanford Investments, charged in a Ponzi scheme a la Madoff. Damon may have had almost all his assets tied up there.

  197. Stan December 29th, 2009 at 5:29 pm

    Scott Boras clients yet to be signed : Rick Ankiel, Garrett Anderson, Adran Beltre, Johnny Damon, Matt Holliday, and Xavier Nady.
    Some more of his office staff must be getting nervous. He’s cut some staff already.

  198. patrick-from wantagh December 29th, 2009 at 5:30 pm

    re. scott posednik…he is a experienced left fielder with SPEED! if chicago wants to use him as their center fielder,why cant the yanks team him with gardner?

  199. bardos December 29th, 2009 at 5:31 pm

    Nady is another player steered to Stanton by Boras.

  200. Phil the Thrill December 29th, 2009 at 5:32 pm

    The Yanks must see Holliday as an 80M or great type player. He’s very similar to Tex with the bat, and they gave Tex 180.

  201. Matt December 29th, 2009 at 5:32 pm

    Jason Bay with physical issues ? In Bahhstinese that’s called sour grapes.

  202. Uncle Ellsworth (Expert textpert choking smokers, don't you think the joker laughs at you) December 29th, 2009 at 5:33 pm

    did Boras lose most of his money too?
    probably not.

  203. Brave December 29th, 2009 at 5:35 pm

    Love how the Sox have already started to leak rumors about Bay’s medicals.

    Yeah… he was in such a bad physical condition that you basically offered him the same deal as the Mets right?

    Just a bunch of nonsense. Typical Sox FO… trying to devalue one of their former players as he is about to leave.

  204. MTU December 29th, 2009 at 5:35 pm

    Phil-

    OK.

    So what’s the problem.

    Why haven’t we signed MH yet.

    Warren buffett would advise Hal that MH is an Excellent value.

    Dont pass on him.

  205. Rockks December 29th, 2009 at 5:37 pm

    No thanks on Damon – First off, he won’t come crawling back and Cash won’t cave. Secondly, he can’t play left anymore and we are perfectly happy with NJ as the DH. Not to mention he is only a 1 yr deal and we need another LF next year. How long can we keep going with the merry-go-round?

    Damon missed the boat, Cash has no interest in bringing him back. Not to mention his pride won’t let him take a big discount to come back. Forget Damon.

  206. Yank1 December 29th, 2009 at 5:39 pm

    Jon Heyman

    i dont believe bay has anything against NY. was likely just holding out hope for 5 or 6 year deal. #mets
    54 minutes ago

  207. SJ44 December 29th, 2009 at 5:41 pm

    Rich,

    I don’t think its a question of whether or not the Yankees believe Holliday is 20% better than Crawford.

    I think its a situation with Arod and Tex with huge contracts, Jeter ready to sign another large deal, as will Mariano (if he continues to play), along with other free agents (Cliff Lee, among others) in the 2010 class, they don’t want to tie up that kind of money and years in him.

    I think that’s the equation and why, after the Vasquez trade was complete, they ended talks about him.

    At this point, unless he wants to take less money and years (HIGHLY) than the Cardinals offer, he isn’t coming to the Yankees.

  208. stuckey December 29th, 2009 at 5:46 pm

    “Stuckey, so you want to wait around until jeter and the rest get old and them hope there is someone out there to help.”

    I think “Jeter and the rest” is a LITTLE deceiving when we’re talking about 3 players, once of which (while there are NO guarantees) the Yanks might be in the BEST position of any team in the league to fill.

    I’m talking about catcher of course, and not just necessarily Montero/Romine. They could be players for Martinez and Mauer IF they make it to the market and IF the Yanks have anything left in the coffers.

    I also think you’re seeing something of a shift away from the murderer’s row mentality that didn’t work the middle part of this decade and a greater emphasis on always being able to be players for the best available pitchers, a strategy which another $18m a year deal could conceivably compromise.

    I think given their resources and the market as it exists today, I think the Yankees will find a way to score runs on a fairly consistent basis.

    So no, I’m not concerned that 3 years from now the team won’t be able to score runs.

    I think making certain the resources are available to ALWAYS be in the hunt when a worthwhile starting pitcher comes along, or the rare time a premium catcher hits the market is FAR more important.

    I think the bottom line is those advocating for Holiday the most will ALSO be the strongest advocates EVERY year for the top FA, without any regard to their EVER being a limit.

    3 years in baseball is an eternity. Would anyone have predicted how valuable Nick Swisher would turn out to be just a year ago? And his ceiling may not have been reached. His road numbers were MVP-ish last year.

    Reading the 2013 market now is a mistake any way you justify it.

  209. SJ44 December 29th, 2009 at 5:47 pm

    Its kind of hard to argue complacency when Cashman is taking to Dave Dombrowski about a trade that would improve the 2010 Yankees while the 2009 World Series is going on. That doesn’t sound like complacency has sunk into the front office.

    Perhaps its a simple as seeing a better free agent class in 2010, knowing they have to re-sign Jeter and Rivera (and no, contrary to popular belief by some on here, neither guy is taking a large paycut from the Yankees) and deciding to hold back on another giant deal for this season.

    Right now, he’s got a lot of talent and flexibility, both in contracts and talent for next year and in what he can do this year.

    Adding another big deal to the mix this off-season ties him down more than he wants at the present time.

  210. bru December 29th, 2009 at 5:48 pm

    holliday is a steal at 80 million

    even 85 million

    war numbers close to tex at not much over half the price??

    crawford will get 5 yrs/15 million a year minimum imo & holliday is much better imo

    5 years for holliday is a very safe signing

    i just can’t see us waiting for crawford if in fact that is what we are doing

    i would love to have crawford but holliday is a number 5 hitter option

    i am not sure cc is

    i would of signed holliday,traded for cg & traded joba & montero for cliff lee & tried to structure the contract where it works for our payroll

    pettitte back also

    rotation of

    cc
    lee
    burnett
    pettitte
    hughes

    o.f. of

    holliday
    cg
    melky

    dh
    swisher

    just my fantasy

  211. Phil the Thrill December 29th, 2009 at 5:50 pm

    Unless Mauer ends up in the 2010 FA class there won’t be any better hitters than Holliday in that class. This one is teed up for them.

  212. crawdaddy December 29th, 2009 at 5:52 pm

    We get it the Yankees should sign Holliday, but right now, the Yankee Brass appears to not be listening to you. If so then what do you think the Yankees are going to do next?

  213. crawdaddy December 29th, 2009 at 5:53 pm

    “Unless Mauer ends up in the 2010 FA class there won’t be any better hitters than Holliday in that class. This one is teed up for them.”

    Send another email to Cash.:)

  214. Betsy -high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 5:54 pm

    I can’t argue with Stuckey and SJ. LOL I love how Dombrowksi asked Cash WTH he was doing calling him on the eve of the WS. We should cross our fingers that the younger catchers develop because then we can use them as trade chips.

  215. Mark December 29th, 2009 at 5:55 pm

    “We get it the Yankees should sign Holliday, but right now, the Yankee Brass appears to not be listening to you. If so then what do you think the Yankees are going to do next?”

    Reed Johnson, unfortunately.

  216. bru December 29th, 2009 at 5:56 pm

    i do however love the idea of signing lee without giving up prospects especially montero & joba

    but i am not sure montero will be our future catcher

  217. vtred December 29th, 2009 at 6:01 pm

    “but i am not sure montero will be our future catcher”

    Then trade him for Halladay.

  218. george December 29th, 2009 at 6:03 pm

    “Cash has no interest in bringing him [Damon] back.”

    the known alternatives are:

    a. blowing a bundle on Holliday

    b. starting w/Gardner/R. Johnson/Podesnic (sp?)/Hoffman/Hairston, and then trading some prospect for a decent LF at the trading break, after losing a couple of giving away some games due to this bunch’s probable sub-standard LF performance.

    c. Damon

    blowing a bundle on Holliday seems unlikely, given the quality of the 2011 FAs.

    alternative b strikes me as especially stupid, because it also means a very weak bench – significant given that the Yanks have some older players, plus Nick Johnson, plus the backup catcher playing 20-25% of the time.

    So either Cashman is going to do something brain-dead, or he will strike a deal w/Damon. my bet is on the latter.

  219. bru December 29th, 2009 at 6:09 pm

    vtred
    December 29th, 2009 at 6:01 pm
    “but i am not sure montero will be our future catcher”

    Then trade him for Halladay
    ————————————————————

    halladay??

    he is with the phillies

    not happening

    i think if we determine montero can’t catch he will be gone but will try to hide that fact to keep his trade value

    next year jv,pettitte & nj come off the books for about 30 million

    any more coming off??

    jeter & mo figure will stay at the same salary.

    a slight decrease is a bonus

    lets say lee gets 20 million a year we have 10 million or so to play with(roughly)

    trades will be done or considered if we need a dh & or outfielder

    maybe gardner or somebody else make it & we sign lee & crawford/werth for 35 million total

    man would that be sweet

  220. jake December 29th, 2009 at 6:12 pm

    “Another left-handed speed option for left field” is completely unnecessary. The Yanks would be best off acquiring a RH OF to pair with Gardner. My vote would be for Marlon Byrd, but there’s others who’d do just fine.
    Cashman has his eye on next year, already, when both Carl Crawford and Cliff Lee go free.
    Matt Holliday is a fine overall player, but he’s never going to be a guy you’re happy to be paying $17mil+ per season. It’s not as if he’s going to hit 40 homeruns and play great defense (but with Bay just having signed a ridiculous contract with the Mets, Holliday WILL get that kind of money).

  221. CR9 December 29th, 2009 at 6:14 pm

    “CB
    December 29th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
    “So, do the Sox wait till after Bay’s physical to start ripping him, or will it start later today?”

    Well Gammons already laid out that Beirut comment, so there’s that.

    They’ve already painted him as a greedy player who was willing to sacrifice winning and personal accomplishment for $5M.

    Bay’s deal with the mets will turn out to be around $20M more than what the Sox offered.

    But the narrative has already been set so there’s that.”

    ?????

    Gammons has already insulted this guy.

    He was just talking 3 months ago about how great a guy he is, and a team player, and family man he is.

    Again, Peter, it’s not about the extra dollars, it’s the extra year and job security of an extra year.

  222. MTU December 29th, 2009 at 6:14 pm

    Good article over at RAB on the Holliday situation:

    “How many wins would Matt Holliday add in 2010?”

    I checked it out but i dont totally agree with it.

    CB commented on it over there and he didn’t totally agree either.

    Food for thought though.

  223. Mark December 29th, 2009 at 6:15 pm

    Sox in discussions with Adrian Beltre – Per Gordon Edes.

  224. Tom on N.J. December 29th, 2009 at 6:16 pm

    Montero’s bat is said to be brobdingnagian.

    I don’t think the Yankees would trade him if he can’t catch.

  225. CR9 December 29th, 2009 at 6:17 pm

    “Jason Bay with physical issues ? In Bahhstinese that’s called sour grapes.”

    How do you say the mixture of French and Spanish, Peter Gammons.

    Pierre Calcetines Rojos.

  226. CR9 December 29th, 2009 at 6:21 pm

    I;ll say this. I knew Jason Bay was a classy guy.

    One of the very few classy Red Sox in their history.

    I held out hope he would not settle for the Red Sox chicken scraps, and take top dollar.

    Good for Jason Bay. He’s earned it!

  227. REZ December 29th, 2009 at 6:21 pm

    PeteAbe
    As far as last performances at Giants Stadium, #Springsteen was much better than the #Giants. How did it go bad so fast? 2:01 PM Dec 28th from TweetDeck

  228. Matt December 29th, 2009 at 6:24 pm

    There’s little left that Boston can do except to swallow hard when Papelgoof wins his arbitration case and keep trying to peddle Lowell.

  229. Dr Mustard December 29th, 2009 at 6:24 pm

    PeteAbe is a loser

    I think Cashman will trade to get a LF

  230. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 6:25 pm

    PeteAbe
    As far as last performances at Giants Stadium, #Springsteen was much better than the #Giants. How did it go bad so fast? 2:01 PM Dec 28th from TweetDeck

    ==========

    I dont miss Petes mancrush posts about Springsteen one bit. Or the pats posts.

  231. CB December 29th, 2009 at 6:25 pm

    “CB commented on it over there and he didn’t totally agree either.”

    I was mostly disagreeing with the original article RAB was commenting on rather than RAB’s comments.

    Fangraphs was essentially arguing that Matt Holliday is an example of diminishing marginal returns for the Yankees given where they are on the “win curve” (i.e. what does it matter if they win 100 games vs. 101).

    But that either completely ignores the fact that the yankees goal is to win the world series – not to make the playoff or he is assuming that the playoffs are truly random and all teams have a 50% probability of winning.

    But the notion that outcomes from the playoffs are largely random is flawed. There’s high variation but it’s not random.

    If Holliday pushed the Yankees probability of winning in the playoffs from say 58% to 60% per round that would be a big gain.

  232. Betsy - high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 6:26 pm

    If it matters, the guy heading MLB Trade rumors chat said there has been absolutely no buzz re: Chapman and the Yankees lately

  233. bru December 29th, 2009 at 6:28 pm

    i heard holliday adds about 5 or 6 wins

    not bad for 16-18 million imo

    i just hope we dont trade prospects for a big dollar outfielder at the break or sign one of werth/crawford next year when we can get holliday now & it costs us a ws

    i get it that as long as we have a great infield the money should go to pitching first but for 200 million we should at least have a better lf

    i am all for waiting but not for a fa outfielder that will cost almost as much & is not as good

    i think the reality is cashman is not convinced we need another big bat contract/outfielder

    i think we did a good job in replacing damon & matsui for half the cost but at the expens of a good # 5 hitter

    i am also not sure vasquez at the expense of holliday was the right choice

  234. Uncle Ellsworth (Expert textpert choking smokers, don't you think the joker laughs at you) December 29th, 2009 at 6:29 pm

    18-1

  235. Dr Mustard December 29th, 2009 at 6:30 pm

    Scouts werent impressed by Chapman…Chapman is another Igawa

  236. Eric December 29th, 2009 at 6:31 pm

    Let the Sox sign Chapman… no big deal.

  237. Betsy - high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 6:33 pm

    Cashman is not going to kill the farm system that he’s spent so long in developing by trading prospects for mediocrities in LF.

    In a post above, I mentioned using young catchers as trade chips. I’m referring to catchers other than Montero and Romine.

  238. Rockks December 29th, 2009 at 6:33 pm

    “i am also not sure vasquez at the expense of holliday was the right choice”

    It wasn’t.

    Would have rather had both kids in the rotation and Holliday in the lineup, rather than Vasquez in the rotation, one of the kids in AAA, and Gardner/Reed Johnson in the OF.

    Maybe I have more faith in the kids than most, but I would have gone that route.

  239. Betsy - high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 6:34 pm

    More speculation:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/blo.....-left.html

  240. CR9 December 29th, 2009 at 6:35 pm

    18* – 1

    I would absolutely love getting to face the Patties in the 1st round.

    I would love to see Pete Abe’s comments when Rexxy Ryan walks all over the Patties, if the Jets were to win this Sunday and against the Patties.

    The way Pete Abe insults Rex Ryan, solely because he is the Jets head coach, is so sickening and unprofessional.

    Realistically, I know the Jets are probably not going to win….

    But you never know. They have the best defense in the league…

    and how did the Giants win 2 years ago, because their defense stepped up when it counted, and drove us to the SB.

    Why can’t the Jets win the SB?

    The way to beat Peyton is the way to beat Brady, put them on the turf and hit them in the mouth.

    It can be done, it’s not impossible.

  241. crawdaddy December 29th, 2009 at 6:35 pm

    I’m not convinced that Holliday is going to be worth the 5-6 year contract he’s going to get from somebody. He’s a big boy and I wonder how well he’s going to field his position in another 3-4 seasons.

  242. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 6:38 pm

    18-1

    ====

    I hate to say this U.E.. But im hoping i can say the same thing about my Colts this year.

  243. Dr Mustard December 29th, 2009 at 6:38 pm

    People need to get off the weed, with all this Gardner and Reed Johnson platoon

    It aint happening…Reed Johnson is a bum,and Gardner will be on the bench to pinch run/defensive replacement

  244. Mike December 29th, 2009 at 6:40 pm

    CR9,

    If the Jets beat the Bengals this weekend, that is their playoff opponent, a rematch the following weekend.

  245. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 6:41 pm

    Just read that the last 13 super bowl winning QB’s had no rest in the end of the season. I wonder if Polian got that memo?

  246. ZMAN December 29th, 2009 at 6:42 pm

    Mustard,

    Let’s hope so. We are the Yankees… there is no room for blackholes in our lineup.

    Gardner can’t hit at all, and Reed can only hit lefties (which only make up about 30% of the league anyway).

  247. rover December 29th, 2009 at 6:42 pm

    Didn’t the sux send lowell to the rangers. Did that fall apart?

  248. Phil the Thrill December 29th, 2009 at 6:43 pm

    Montero’s defensive issues have been exaggerated. He’s gotten better and better over the last three years. In Trenton, he took off (as did Romine down in Tampa after the two were separated and both could catch everyday). He will part of the new core.

  249. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 6:44 pm

    rover,
    Yes. Finger injury.

  250. Uncle Ellsworth (Expert textpert choking smokers, don't you think the joker laughs at you) December 29th, 2009 at 6:44 pm

    18-1

    ====

    I hate to say this U.E.. But im hoping i can say the same thing about my Colts this year.

    don’t let anyone kid you.

    That Giant win – ruining the Pats perfect season is and will continue to be a festering boil in beantown and environs for decades.
    ripped their hearts out and it was magic.

    Good luck to your Colts

  251. Mike December 29th, 2009 at 6:44 pm

    Colts need to purposefully lose their first 4 games of the season next year or something… then their owner will be forced to play his stars the entire season.

  252. bru December 29th, 2009 at 6:45 pm

    jake
    December 29th, 2009 at 6:12 pm
    “Another left-handed speed option for left field” is completely unnecessary. The Yanks would be best off acquiring a RH OF to pair with Gardner. My vote would be for Marlon Byrd, but there’s others who’d do just fine.
    Cashman has his eye on next year, already, when both Carl Crawford and Cliff Lee go free.
    Matt Holliday is a fine overall player, but he’s never going to be a guy you’re happy to be paying $17mil+ per season. It’s not as if he’s going to hit 40 homeruns and play great defense (but with Bay just having signed a ridiculous contract with the Mets, Holliday WILL get that kind of money).

    —————————————————–

    i agree if we can get crawford for 13 or 14 million a year but i think he will cost more & holliday is a much better hitter & run producer but i would not mind cc

    the concern i have is if not signing mh costs us a ws when we might sign a lf anyways a year later for only a few million less if we even get cc or werth

    i am also not sure if signing jv over holliday was the right decision & what signing jv does is put one of hughes/joba in the pen or AAA

    did we have enough pitching & not enough offense or the other way around & is not preparing one of hughes/joba as a starter the right thing to do wich is as result of signing jv??

    i believe both should be given every chance as a starter

    joba til the asb & hughes til the 2011 asb at the earliest

    if not we will never know & always have doubts on wether we have 2 future aces in our arsenal wich would be remarkable not too mention free up money for other needs & make our rotation nasty 1-4 or 1-5

    can you imagine hughes & joba as aces & signing lee?

    cc
    lee
    burnett
    joba
    hughes

    even if they both turn into solid # 2 or 3 pitchers we are in fantastic shape

  253. Phil the Thrill December 29th, 2009 at 6:47 pm

    Holliday is pretty much the same hitter as Tex. Feinsand needs to pay more attention to stats.

  254. Betsy - high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 6:47 pm

    If Montero is going to stick at C, then the Yanks will have to convert Romine to the OF. I really like this kid – don’t see any reason to trade him. He could be part of the OF solution….I wonder if the Yankees will experiment with Romine in the OF this year since they do seem insistent that Montero will be a catcher

  255. Betsy - high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 6:47 pm

    Phil, the Yankees don’t think so or else they’d be in on him

  256. Rockks December 29th, 2009 at 6:48 pm

    S.O.S – As a Spurs/Colts/Yanks fan… you must have had some fun this past decade.

    About as much as “little m” did lol

  257. CR9 December 29th, 2009 at 6:50 pm

    Mike

    I’m sorry. I just discussed that with somebody the other day. Thanks for the correction.

    Oh well, that relieves a lot of chest pressure.

  258. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 6:50 pm

    U.E.,
    That was as pleasing a Super Bowl for me as the Colts/Bears one. It might have even been better. Just because they disrespected the league that year and ran the score up. While Brady beat Mannings t.d. record while Moss beat Rices. They were passing on teams late in the fourth quarter while being ahead by 4 t.d.’s. And playing the last game of the year vs. the g men till the final seconds just to break those personal records. Who knows how many t.d.s Manning would have had that year if he would have played the final two games. Patriots were flat out classless. Giants winning was priceless.

  259. Nat December 29th, 2009 at 6:50 pm

    Waiting for Crawford next year would be the dumbest thing in the world. Like we really need a low OBP speedster at age 29 for $80 million a year.

    Unless Cash is just content with a blackhole in left until Heathcott is ready, or wants to dip into the farm further to find a long term solution next year…

  260. crawdaddy December 29th, 2009 at 6:50 pm

    “Holliday is pretty much the same hitter as Tex. Feinsand needs to pay more attention to stats.”

    Like Betsy stated, it appears the Yankees don’t agree with you.

  261. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 6:51 pm

    Colts need to purposefully lose their first 4 games of the season next year or something… then their owner will be forced to play his stars the entire season.

    =========
    As long as they win the next 12 and continue the 12 wins a season streak to 8. Im all for it.

  262. Phil the Thrill December 29th, 2009 at 6:53 pm

    Buster is reporting that Boras is now doubling back to teams about Holliday, the price for one was 18 per…

  263. Mike December 29th, 2009 at 6:53 pm

    CR9,

    If the Jets beat the Bengals and Colts, and the Pats beat the Ravens and Chargers… then there is a rematch for the AFC Champ. game in Foxboro.

    Wouldn’t count on all that happening though. Just as long as the Pats, Eagles, or Cowboys don’t win a title, I am content. But mainly the Pats. I could reluctantly live with the other 2 winning, but it would hurt. But it would be nice knowing that another year has gone by since a Pats title… would be 5 years.

  264. CR9 December 29th, 2009 at 6:53 pm

    S.O.S

    Good luck to your Colts. A truly classy franchise with a classy QB, who have gotten cheated most by the Patriots defensive holding and ill. contacts, and even fought back against all odds to take away an easy SB victory from the Pats over the Bears.

  265. Kevin S. December 29th, 2009 at 6:54 pm

    I know I’m a couple hours behind on this, but: “Jason Bay is a lot similiar to Dave Kingman,in my humble opinion.Also,DeJesus would fit in LF quite nicely.”

    Jason Bay: .376 OBP
    Dave Kingman: .302 OBP

    Not every slugger who strikes out a lot is a Dave Kingman comp. Jason Bay is similar to Dave Kingman like Reggie Jackson is similar to Dave Kingman.

  266. Phil the Thrill December 29th, 2009 at 6:54 pm

    craw,

    it’s not me they don’t agree with, it would be the numbers. And those are just the records of what the two have done.

  267. Uncle Ellsworth (Expert textpert choking smokers, don't you think the joker laughs at you) December 29th, 2009 at 6:54 pm

    SoS
    I’ve been thinking about it.
    For me it might be the biggest sports moment ever
    77 Yanks Win
    96 Yanks win
    86 Giants win
    and Miracle on Ice are the others in the running

    It Was a Big Deal.

  268. Dave December 29th, 2009 at 6:54 pm

    Phil,

    What does that mean?

  269. pat December 29th, 2009 at 6:55 pm

    Buster_ESPN Sources: Boras started doubling back to teams to talk about Holliday. Stated asking price in at least one conversation was $18 mill. a year
    21 minutes ago from web

  270. Betsy - high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 6:55 pm

    http://espn.go.com/blog/sweets.....perstar-lf
    Yes, the Yankees can afford Holliday.

    Yes, Holliday would make the Yankees better. Maybe a juggernaut, even.

    But the only way the Yankees can fall into a habit of losing, someday, is by stockpiling too many players in their 30s with big long-term contracts. It’s incredibly difficult to place a value on flexibility, but that value is real and important and Brian Cashman’s awareness of that value is going to keep the Yankees on top for quite some time.

  271. bru December 29th, 2009 at 6:56 pm

    crawdaddy
    December 29th, 2009 at 6:35 pm
    I’m not convinced that Holliday is going to be worth the 5-6 year contract he’s going to get from somebody. He’s a big boy and I wonder how well he’s going to field his position in another 3-4 seasons.

    ——————————————————–

    i don’t like a 6 year deal but at 28 or 29 yrs old it would be one of the safest contracts they signed

    jeter,mo,burnett,tex,cc,pettitte are equal or more of a risk

    hollidays contract ending at 34 or 35 years old is a safe signing

    crawford next year is going to wan’t 4-6 years/14-18 million a year

    if you think he is safer than holliday i disagree

    holliday blows crawford away imo

  272. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 6:56 pm

    S.O.S – As a Spurs/Colts/Yanks fan… you must have had some fun this past decade.

    About as much as “little m” did lol

    ========
    Rockks
    lol. I dont know how mel could be a Yankee fan and be a fan of a Boston team. Im going to try to convert her.

    Yes im a spoiled fan. It becomes something thats expected. Im also a Red Wings and Longhorns fan. I guess when the bandwagon applications came in. I filled them out correctly.

    Ill tell you this though. My 2 kids can root for any team in any other sport accept for baseball. Since they were 2 and capable of understanding what sports are. It was either be a Yankee fan or Move out. They made a wise choise.

  273. crawdaddy December 29th, 2009 at 6:57 pm

    “i don’t like a 6 year deal but at 28 or 29 yrs old it would be one of the safest contracts they signed”

    Except Holliday turns 30 in a couple of weeks.

  274. CR9 December 29th, 2009 at 6:57 pm

    Mike

    Agreed.

    Cowboys will not win anyway, but they are them most desirable of the 3 that I would want to win.

    I really only despise one team, and it’s the Patriots.

    If the Pats do not win, I’ll be fine. I can even live with the Eagles, who are the poor team’s Patriots.

    The Eagles might have a Super Bowl or 2 if they were called the New England Eagles…. or maybe if Donovan McScabb was not their QB.

    Donovan McNabb is the biggest piece of garbage; I cannot wait for his career to be over, so he can be laughed at as monumentally overrated.

    Maybe he can face the Jets in a SB and projectile vomit rather than try to win.

    By the way, I would rather not have the Jets face the Pats in the AFCCG. I really do not need that stress on me. The Pats need to be taken out by the Ravens or Chargers (if they face either of those teams).

  275. Clint December 29th, 2009 at 6:58 pm

    Phil,

    Exactly. Teixeria production, at half the price.

    Some team is going to get a real bargain with Holliday— a shame if it isin’t us, especially when we have the need and there are no appealing options in the future available either.

  276. Wait till we do it all over again December 29th, 2009 at 6:58 pm

    “They made a wise choise.”

    So I take it they moved out? ;-)

  277. Betsy - high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 6:58 pm

    I like the Colts, even though they beat my Bears in the Super Bowl. I love Peyton Manning………..I’ve read that the Colts are taking incredible heat from the fans for the decision to pull the players. Bill Polian has a radio talk show and apparently fans came out and blasted him. He does also seem clueless about the chance for history. If they don’t win the Super Bowl, fans will be ticked off and blame the fact that they threw in the towel against the Jets. If they win, then fans will be ticked off that they could have been undefeated.

  278. CB December 29th, 2009 at 6:59 pm

    “Holliday is pretty much the same hitter as Tex. Feinsand needs to pay more attention to stats.”

    Holliday is good but the big difference is that he carries substantially more risk than Tex does due to his significant home-road splits in Colorado.

    The difference between the players isn’t substantive performance it’s risk.

  279. Bret the Hitman December 29th, 2009 at 6:59 pm

    The ‘asking’ price is 18 mil? You mean, Boras is scrambling around to see if anyone will bite on that? It sounds like he’s stuck now that he only got 4 years for Bay. 7 years for Holliday or 8 is looking absurd. It’s as if he believes Holliday will only get 5 so he’s aiming for a higher AAV at 18.

  280. Yankee in ND December 29th, 2009 at 7:00 pm

    Boras is not Bay’s agent.

  281. Bret the Hitman December 29th, 2009 at 7:00 pm

    CB,

    Also, outfielders tend to be more injury prone than first baseman because there’s more running involved, more wear and tear on the human body.

  282. Betsy - high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 7:00 pm

    Except that most of Matt’s #s were complied in Coors Field. I’ve been arguing that we should sign him (though I’m not MARRIED to the idea), but is he really as good as Tex? I’m not sure about that – if he were, there would still be other teams biting (even in this economy).

  283. Phil the Thrill December 29th, 2009 at 7:02 pm

    MT OPS+ 136 wRC+ 138

    MH OPS+ 133 wRC+ 139

    Pretty much the same hitters…

  284. CB December 29th, 2009 at 7:03 pm

    “Buster_ESPN Sources: Boras started doubling back to teams to talk about Holliday. Stated asking price in at least one conversation was $18 mill. a year”

    The Jason Bay signing is going to move things forward now for Boras.

  285. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 7:03 pm

    Thanks CR9,
    Im a Jets, Dolphins, Bills and whoever else plays the Pats fan as well. Think of how we feel about the Sox. Just change the spelling on it. Hope the Jets continue to improve next year and finally take the Patriots out once and for all.

  286. crawdaddy December 29th, 2009 at 7:04 pm

    “The ‘asking’ price is 18 mil? You mean, Boras is scrambling around to see if anyone will bite on that? It sounds like he’s stuck now that he only got 4 years for Bay. 7 years for Holliday or 8 is looking absurd. It’s as if he believes Holliday will only get 5 so he’s aiming for a higher AAV at 18.”

    Boras isn’t Bay’s agent. Also, until the final details shake out it appears that Bay is getting 16.5M per season and that he could attain 80M for easy vested option for the 5th year. Not bad for a guy that is almost two years older than Holliday and is a terrible fielder.

    IMO, Boras is at least trying for 5-6 years at 18M per.

  287. Bret the Hitman December 29th, 2009 at 7:04 pm

    Yankee in ND
    December 29th, 2009 at 7:00 pm
    Boras is not Bay’s agent.

    Point still stands. Bay getting only 4 years hurts Boras and Holliday because Boras/Holliday are asking 6, 7, 8. Now it seems they’re getting 5.

  288. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 7:08 pm

    “They made a wise choise.”

    So I take it they moved out?

    ======
    No. No. No. I was smart about the whole situation. I made sure they werent recieving any allowance. It wasnt a choice they needed to take long to make. We’re a happy family because of it.

  289. bru December 29th, 2009 at 7:09 pm

    holliday makes our lineup insane,solves the lf problem,number 5 hitter problem & solves our outfield backup problem

    if nj gets hurt we will be scrambling

    i think we can structure the contract where it works especially if we plan on signing a big outfielder next year anyways

    he is a better fit than crawford & a perfect number 5 hitter that will complete a circular lineup & makes the lineup better than this past season wich is scary

    our pitching is better also

    i would of signed pettitte,holliday & traded for cg & tried to pull off a big trade for verlander,lee,jj,etc… or wait til next years fa or the trade deadline

    mh & cg are better than damon & matsui or cg & nj

    the only question i have is are they better than nj,cg,jv & will signing vasquez cause us too make the wrong decision involving joba/hughes?

  290. MaineYankee December 29th, 2009 at 7:09 pm

    I’m a Raider fan :oops: But I was a big Giant fan for that SB.

    The Pats fans would have been unbearable if they had won. As it is they are quite arrogant.

  291. RT December 29th, 2009 at 7:10 pm

    Jets and Dolphins have rebuilt their franchises nicely. Pats are going to have competition in the upcoming years.

  292. Gator December 29th, 2009 at 7:11 pm

    Mike,

    I am with you— as long as the Pats, Cowboys, or Eagles don’t win… I’m good with anyone.

  293. Neil B. December 29th, 2009 at 7:12 pm

    I would say 17 roles on the roster are set in stone:

    1-8: the starting position players (except for LF)
    9: cervelli as backup catcher. does he even have any competition? mike rivera??? romine isn’t ready yet.
    10-13: rotation spots 1-4
    14-17: rivera as closer, robertson and marte as late inning relievers, and aceves as a middle reliever

    after that, you know that gardner will be on the roster, but his role won’t be known until the yanks make a decision about signing another LF. and either joba/phil will be on the roster as the #5 starter, but the other might get sent to AAA to build up innings (the correct decision IMHO).

    so that’s 19 players, and the other 6 are up in the air:
    - pena looks likely to be the backup IF, but russo should provide competition and the yanks might resign hairston.
    - the yankees are almost surely going to sign another OF, but who? reed johnson is probably the likeliest, but with each day it looks like damon might just come back.
    - hoffman should be able to lock up the last spot on the bench, but if he has a bad spring training he’ll go back to the dodgers.
    - gaudin would definitely be the long reliever/#7 starter, but right now i think there’s still a small chance he gets traded before the start of next season, mostly due to his $3M salary (though i’m in favor of keeping him).
    - the loser of the joba/phil battle being sent to the bullpen is a subject of great debate. i suspect that if it’s phil, who needs the innings, he’ll go to AAA – but if it’s joba, the yankees will keep him in the bullpen until a spot opens up.
    - and then there’s the last spot in the bullpen, which is up for grabs. maybe a second lefty (boone logan), maybe a promising arm (melancon), who knows? it’s whoever performs best in ST.

  294. MaineYankee December 29th, 2009 at 7:12 pm

    S.o.S

    My 2 sons are Yankee fans but my daughter went to the dark side. :lol:

  295. CR9 December 29th, 2009 at 7:12 pm

    The most arrogant little ***** among the actual Patriots or their fans has to be that litte ***** Wes Welker.

    I cannot stand that guy.

    The only reason why he is any good is because teams refuse to cover him and allow him to roam the field unmanned.

  296. CR9 December 29th, 2009 at 7:13 pm

    “My 2 sons are Yankee fans but my daughter went to the dark side.”

    And she is still your daughter? Or still considered your daughter?

    What kind of child becomes a Red Sox fan when the family is Yankees fans? Just to rebel and be different?

    :)

  297. Oddessy December 29th, 2009 at 7:14 pm

    Boras just needed to concede— he is not getting a good deal for Holliday, like half of what he promised him.

    Just take the STL offer and move on.

  298. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 7:16 pm

    Betsy,
    Management has put themselves in a bad situation. If they win. Everyone will say they could have went undefeated. If they lose. They will say, its because they rested the starters and therefore they were not in rythem because of it. Damned if they do. Damned if they dont.

  299. DaSaint007 December 29th, 2009 at 7:16 pm

    People keep talking about how Holliday is Tex production at 1/2 the price. How about Tex being Holliday production at twice the price?

    How does Tex’s production compare to ARod’s contract in terms of value?

    Maybe – JUST MAYBE – the Yankees belatedly realize that they’ve been overpaying for stated production. Hmmmm.

  300. Cricket December 29th, 2009 at 7:17 pm

    I cannot stand the Celtics. I dislike Pierce and dislike KG.

    I cannot stand McHale for restoring their franchise.

    Sitting through that Lakers-Celtics finals in 2008 was painful.

  301. Betsy - high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 7:18 pm

    Neil B, nice summary. I like Gaudin too; he’s a very useful piece, IMO. It would be nice if Melancon had a good spring and made the team as we could always use another promising arm in the pen.

  302. jpb1973 December 29th, 2009 at 7:19 pm

    The Yankees are definately acting as if they aren’t interested in Matt Holliday. If they were interested I’m sure they would have signed him by now. This leaves me to believe that they will plug in a lesser LF’er on a one-year deal…then will pursue Carl Crawford next season.

    If thats the case, this season’s fate will be determined by the pitching staff…both the starting pitching and the bullpen. I feel good about the starters, but wish we had more depth/experience in the bullpen.

  303. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 7:20 pm

    S.o.S

    My 2 sons are Yankee fans but my daughter went to the dark side.

    ========

    Its then either a 2 boys thing or a third child being a daughter thing. I guess my refusal of going for a third child, hoping for a daughter might have saved me visits to the shrink. Ill let my wife know that she can finally get over it and thank me while shes at it.

  304. MaineYankee December 29th, 2009 at 7:21 pm

    Cricket
    December 29th, 2009 at 7:17 pm
    I cannot stand the Celtics. I dislike Pierce and dislike KG.

    I cannot stand McHale for restoring their franchise.

    Sitting through that Lakers-Celtics finals in 2008 was painful.

    —————————————————-

    I enjoyed it from where I was sitting. :lol:

  305. Mike_Boston December 29th, 2009 at 7:22 pm

    “The only reason why he is any good is because teams refuse to cover him and allow him to roam the field unmanned.”

    CR9 that isn’t a serious quote right, you don’t really think that about Welker do you?

  306. Comet December 29th, 2009 at 7:22 pm

    Yes it’s true about Damon getting fleeced. I remember it came up during the season. At one point all of his credit cards, everything was frozen.

    He needs the money. I had forgotten about it. I’m sure he hasn’t.

    Sad story.

  307. Lenny / Squiggy December 29th, 2009 at 7:22 pm

    Matt Holliday signs with Yankees !

  308. jpb1973 December 29th, 2009 at 7:22 pm

    People keep talking about how Holliday is Tex production at 1/2 the price. How about Tex being Holliday production at twice the price?

    How does Tex’s production compare to ARod’s contract in terms of value?

    Maybe – JUST MAYBE – the Yankees belatedly realize that they’ve been overpaying for stated production. Hmmmm.

    ——————————————————

    You’re conclusion may be correct but don’t forget that batting is only one area of performance. In Tixeira’s case he has won quite a few games for the Yankees with his glove. I don’t think that Holliday wins too many games with his glove/throwing arm.

  309. Betsy - high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 7:22 pm

    SOS, yes they have…..and the thing is, this isn’t the first time this has happened to the Colts. Each time they’ve “given up” and pulled their starters late in a season, they’ve had early exits from the playoffs. I just don’t think it’s right that they took the players chance at history out of their hands; the players are the ones out on the field, busting their behinds. I’m not saying that the players should make decisions, but I think their feelings should have been taken into account. The “what ifs” will linger for a long time. It’s a shame because Caldwell did a great job for 14 games; now, this is all anyone will remember of him.

  310. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 7:23 pm

    What kind of child becomes a Red Sox fan when the family is Yankees fans? Just to rebel and be different?

    ==========

    Iv heard of babies being accidently switched at the hospital. Gotta be the case.

  311. Betsy - high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 7:23 pm

    I really don’t think the Yankees think they overpaid for Tex………..

  312. bru December 29th, 2009 at 7:24 pm

    crawdaddy
    December 29th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
    “i don’t like a 6 year deal but at 28 or 29 yrs old it would be one of the safest contracts they signed”

    Except Holliday turns 30 in a couple of weeks.

    ————————————————————

    crawford if we go after him will be 4 months away from 30 yrs old starting his first season with us.

    not saying we go after him

    all i am saying is i don’t think crawford is a better hitter than holliday & might not cost quite as much but will probably get the same years & no more than 4 million less per year than holliday if that

  313. Ken December 29th, 2009 at 7:24 pm

    Im far from a Mets fan and trying to objective here. Folks knocking the Mets for signing Bay – do they remember who they ran out there last year? Murphy, Sheffield, Fernando Tatis, Angel Pagan, Corey Sullivan, Jeremy Reed. Im sure Bays numbers will be knocked down to 25/90 in Citi Field but it sure beats the mish mosh they had last year in LF.

  314. pat December 29th, 2009 at 7:26 pm

    Bay signing removed St. Louis’ best Plan B.

    Unlike the Yanks, the bat is as important as the glove for a LFer in St. Louis or they will need to find a bat for another position too in addition to a LFer.

    Maybe the Cards did what the Yankees did last year- told Boras to bring them his best offer and give them a chance to beat it.

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  316. ariel December 29th, 2009 at 7:29 pm

    S.o.S…..”Cringing” was not the word. The coaching staff experienced collective heart palpitations as Johnny D. consistently demonstrated the facility of a first year Little League outfield candidate at his initial tryout and without any experience whatsoever attempting to corral a flyball. An overstatement?? Hardly…

  317. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 7:29 pm

    Betsy,
    I touched on this yesterday. It wasnt Caldwells decision. It was Bill Polians gm. The bad part about it was the players had no idea this was going to happen. They pulled the rug from under them. The only one that had a heads up that it might happen was Peyton. Hope the trust thing doesnt effect the players in the playoffs. BTW, the year they beat the Bears, was the only year the players had no rest as a 3 seed. Lets hope history doesnt repeat itself.

    I wonder if i would have been as sick to my stomach if they played and Wayne or Clark got injured(manning never gets touched)?

  318. Bret the Hitman December 29th, 2009 at 7:29 pm

    5-hitter please.

    Matsui was never replaced.

  319. Bill December 29th, 2009 at 7:30 pm

    “The only reason why he is any good is because teams refuse to cover him and allow him to roam the field unmanned.”

    Perhaps because they have so many other weapons? Moss can kill you on 80 yard bombs. Welker kills you on 8-12 yard slants and gets a ton of YACs.

    And remember, the Dolphins gave him away to the Pats for nothing. I think it was when Saban was still there and he said he would fit the Pats like a glove and gave him to them.

  320. Matt December 29th, 2009 at 7:31 pm

    I actually think, among the 3 major Boston teams… the Pats are the classiest and most likeable. They also have accomplished the most, and probably have the least arrogant fans.

  321. MaineYankee December 29th, 2009 at 7:35 pm

    S.o.S

    I guess my daughter being a RS fan is payback for me being a Yankee fan coming from a RS fan family. :lol:

    Also my daughter is the oldest so what worked for you didn’t for me. :lol:

  322. REZ December 29th, 2009 at 7:35 pm

    Brett,

    Right now, If I am a pitcher, I pitch around A-Rod. Posada doesn’t scare me and you figure he is going to continue to decline as well. He was fine as the #5 hitter in doses— when he was swinging a hot bat, or when Matsui was resting, but he is not an appealing option for the everyday #5 hitter.

    Matsui scared you, Posada does not. And Posada is probably only going to play 115 games anyway. So who bats 5th the other times? Cano? Swisher?

  323. bru December 29th, 2009 at 7:36 pm

    i would not mind crawford or maybe werth but would really like cliff lee first & foremost

    lee & crawford/werth would be a very nice offseason

  324. MaineYankee December 29th, 2009 at 7:39 pm

    Matt
    December 29th, 2009 at 7:31 pm
    I actually think, among the 3 major Boston teams… the Pats are the classiest and most likeable. They also have accomplished the most, and probably have the least arrogant fans.

    ——————————————–

    Accomplished more than the Celtics 18 banners?

    As far as arrogance, many Pats fans are also RS fans. And living here I don’t think classy is something I would attach to their fans.

  325. Bret the Hitman December 29th, 2009 at 7:39 pm

    Cashman never replaced Matsui – WS MVP.

    Blasphemy.

    I don’t buy it.

    Not sold.

    Try again senor Cashman.

  326. Matt December 29th, 2009 at 7:39 pm

    How is Holliday going to hurt flexibility in the future, but Crawford won’t? Especially when you figure Holliday will be a better asset than Crawford in his mid 30s because he isin’t reliant upon speed.

    Makes no sense. If you want any good player, you have to tie up the payroll for 5 years or so.

  327. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 29th, 2009 at 7:41 pm

    “Im far from a Mets fan and trying to objective here. Folks knocking the Mets for signing Bay – do they remember who they ran out there last year? Murphy, Sheffield, Fernando Tatis, Angel Pagan, Corey Sullivan, Jeremy Reed. Im sure Bays numbers will be knocked down to 25/90 in Citi Field but it sure beats the mish mosh they had last year in LF”
    ———————————————————

    the point is Holliday would have been a much better signing. Better player, younger, athletic, etc. He is not what the Mets need. The Mets signing Bay, is like applying lipstick to a pig. Conversely, Holliday is the type of player you can rebuild a team around

  328. bru December 29th, 2009 at 7:42 pm

    jeter
    granderson
    johnson
    arod
    tex
    posada
    cano
    swisher
    gardner

    would this be a good lineup against righties???

  329. Betsy - high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 7:46 pm

    The Bay signing leaves Matt Holliday as the only impact hitter on the market, and he won’t sign for a penny less than the five years and $80 million or so Bay probably will get when the fifth year vests. At the same time, his market is limited, and if it’s really just St. Louis chasing him, I would expect the two sides to play chicken for another month. This deal also increases the chances that Johnny Damon has to return to the Yankees with his tail between his legs and take a one- or two-year deal at a big cut from his 2009 salary.

    http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog…name=law_keith

    **********

  330. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 7:46 pm

    I actually think, among the 3 major Boston teams… the Pats are the classiest and most likeable. They also have accomplished the most, and probably have the least arrogant fans.

    ========

    Most likeable? Classiest?
    Whats to like about having them run the score up late in games by passing/calling time outs with a 4 touchdown lead in the closing minutes?
    BelleCHEAT didnt get his name from being classy. Camcorder anyone? He’s also very classy giving his back lash press conferences with that damn hoodie on.
    You must be talking about Brady as the whole team.

    BTW, the other Boston teams arent better. But i would put the Celtics ahead the other two.

  331. jpb1973 December 29th, 2009 at 7:48 pm

    How is Holliday going to hurt flexibility in the future, but Crawford won’t? Especially when you figure Holliday will be a better asset than Crawford in his mid 30s because he isin’t reliant upon speed.

    Makes no sense. If you want any good player, you have to tie up the payroll for 5 years or so.

    ——————————————————-

    Pitching and defense wins games. In Crawford’s case he is a gold glove outfielder and will help the team defensively for years to come. Matt Holliday’s defense is poor and won’t get any better as he gets older. The Yankees can find bad fielding hitters any time they need them. They need someone who can chase down flyballs in left field and put pressure on opposing defenses. The Yankees have enough power hitters so their money is better spent on Crawford than Holliday.

  332. Betsy - high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 7:50 pm

    SOS, that’s a bad move by Polian; I think he underestimated how important the chase for history was to the players and the fans because he didn’t think it important. My team is out, so I’m rooting for the Colts. I hope it doesn’t effect them……….Peyton’s very classy for not throwing anyone under the bus.

  333. Nick in SF December 29th, 2009 at 7:55 pm

    Mainly, signing Holliday would take away the flexible option of signing or not signing Crawford a year later — if he’s available.

    Signing Holliday might also limit the flexibility of whether or not to have another parade in October 2010. ;)

  334. Uncle Ellsworth (Expert textpert choking smokers, don't you think the joker laughs at you) December 29th, 2009 at 7:57 pm

    SoS

    The Blogfather will get mad at you stop speaking ill about the Pats!
    For your own safety please!

    oh wait
    a kinder gentler regime is in place, as you were

  335. Nick in SF December 29th, 2009 at 7:57 pm

    Oops :mad:

    :arrow:

  336. Doreen December 29th, 2009 at 8:04 pm

    REZ -

    To be fair, Matsui also had his horrible slumps and scared no one while he was in the midst of one of them.

    I don’t want to disrespect Matsui – but let’s not make him out to be flawless.

    Posada may not be perfect, but he’s no slouch – he’s a switch hitter with power who I seem to recall getting a few clutch hits in his time, including last season.

  337. Steve December 29th, 2009 at 8:14 pm

    I do not think we are going to get in on Holliday. I think Cashman and Yanks are serious about building some salary flexibility. They have gone all out on CC, AJ and Tex last season and are carrying a lot of salary with Arod, Jete, Mo Posada and others. Holliday would not make us that much better to justify that salary.

    With that said, I do think we are exposed in LF with Gardner and an unproven Hoffman. I suspect that Cashman will make some type of move to upgrade LF and build bench strength.

    Options:

    1. Bryd is the best FA OF available now other than Holliday. He would not be a bad option. We do not hear his name much, which probably suggests that he is not going to be wearing pinstripes. He would be my top choice of FA outfielders if you are looking for a bargain.

    2. Johnson. I think this is an OK move. A lefty/righty combo in LF could work. We improve OF defense with Johnson and Gardner. We get OK production in LF with these guys – but nothing spectacular. I kind of look at this as a Roy White/Lou Pinella type of platoon situation toward the end of their careers. We just need these guys to make contact and give us enough offense so that they are not automatic outs.

    3. Damon. He would be my sentimental favorite. I think Yanks could come back and make an offer where everyone saves face. They could give Damon a 1 + 1 offer with 2nd year a club option with buyout. I think that JD could be had for $16 to $18 M with incentives built in.Market for Damon is not strong. Doubt he will get anything better than a 1 year offer. his market is primarily limited to AL as many teams see him more a DH than a regular LF. I think Damon in #2 hole is better than NJ in #2. I am fearful that Yanks are exposed in #5 hole. NJ might be a better option for #5 hole. I think Jorge should be #6.

    4. Nady. He is a fall back if we elect not to sign a better upgrade. Yanks may roll dice that Nady can come back and produce in part time platoon role and DH some. I think he can hit and is a better #5 option than what we have now. I do not know what he can give us in OF given fact that he is recovering from TJ surgery. We might be willing to go with Nady, Gardy and Hoffman as part of rotation in LF and go with the hot hand as semi-regular starter in LF.

    5. Trade. This is always possible. DeJesus is interesting but to be honest we probably need a RH bat in LF unless we are going to trade Gardner and go with better LF upgrade. DeJesus would be that player and might benefit by playing in Yankee Stadium and hitting in this line up. The question is what we have to give up to get DeJesus.

    I would not trade for Gomes, Podesniak, or Dye. I have no interest in any of these guys. Podesniak is an older version of Gardner and his upside is gone. Dye is a defensive liability and his bat is slowing down. Gomes is a K machine with power. We have too many players who K a lot. We do not need Gomes who will hit tape measure shots, K a lot and hit .220. Enough talk about any of these guys.

  338. Ken December 29th, 2009 at 8:51 pm

    I dont trust Cashman for a minute with his nonsensical talk about keeping the payroll under 200 millions. Since when has payroll ever been a concern for us??? The point is to field the best team. With Bay off the market now, the price for Holliday will also come down. I wouldnt be surprised at all if Cash makes a run at Holliday and swoops in like he did with Tex last year. Anyone believing otherwise is foolish. Who cares if the payroll is 200 mil or 215 mil ?

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