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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Bruney: Loving the facial hair

Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Dec 29, 2009 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Brian Bruney was a solid reliever and a very good guy for the Yankees the past few years, and I was glad to hear that he would be getting an opportunity to compete for the closer’s job after being traded to Washington earlier this winter. Matt Capps is legitimate competition but I’m sure Bruney is planning to give the former Pirate all he can handle in spring training.

Bruney recently did a Q & A with a Nats beat writer where he says that a) he’s healthy now and his poor performances in the postseason had nothing to do with injury; b) that he’s happy to be reunited with Mike Rizzo, who drafted Bruney in Arizona and is now the Nats GM; and c) that winning could be more fun in Washington since no one expects the Nats to do much (“When you expect to win every night like we did in New York, I don’t know if the winning is as fun as when nobody expects you to win. You are the underdogs every night and you prove people wrong. I think that is a lot more fun.”)

The best part of the piece, however, is the part where Bruney talks about the first thing that occurred to him when he heard he was traded. Much like many Yankees who leave town, his first thought had to do with a razor blade.

“I can finally grow some facial hair after four years,” he said. “That’s great. That was one of the first things I thought about. When I was traded, I said, ‘Wow, finally, I can grow a beard.’”

 
 

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316 Responses to “Bruney: Loving the facial hair”

  1. Vincent December 29th, 2009 at 12:17 pm

    Yeah, winning all the time is for losers.

  2. DaSaint007 December 29th, 2009 at 12:19 pm

    repost:

    I totally enjoyed the interchange discussion on Crawford on the previous thread. For some time, I’ve advocated for him as a possible target. Some here have repeated that he won’t ‘age well’ and therefore his speed will decline, as if that’s not the norm. Jeter’s speed has declined, and he’s not a power hitter, major RBI man, or plus defender, but he’s a vital part of the team and will continue to be so for the next few years.

    Crawford is not as good a hitter as Holliday. I fully understand that. But that’s not the point. The point I’ve tried to make is his complete arsenal: decent power, decent run production, excellent defensive capability, excellent range in the field, being a terror on the basepaths, and being a good clubhouse guy, AND the fact that he may be more affordable because his numbers don’t stack up to a Holliday or Bay, MAKES him potentially a more attractive LF.

    Add to that the fact that he’s only 28, and the opportunity exists to control a player during his prime in a hitter-friendly park.

    To me, that’s a major reason why Cashman will not sign Holliday or anyone else for a long-term commitment in LF until next year.

  3. Uncle Ellsworth (Expert textpert choking smokers, don't you think the joker laughs at you) December 29th, 2009 at 12:21 pm

    Have fun with the Nats.

  4. DaSaint007 December 29th, 2009 at 12:21 pm

    I think Brney’s arm and experience will be missed. He was sometimes wild, but when he was on, he was on. Plus he was affordable. Good luck to him.

  5. Tony December 29th, 2009 at 12:22 pm

    DaSaint007 I agree 100% with what you said. I think that is exactly what the Yankees are planning on doing, he fits everything that Cashman sees the Yankees being, younger, speed and defenses and a left handed hitter at Yankee stadium…perfect

  6. Uncle Ellsworth (Expert textpert choking smokers, don't you think the joker laughs at you) December 29th, 2009 at 12:25 pm

    Dr. Beeper: Must be a nice change from dreary old Manhattan.
    Lacey Underall: Yes I was really getting tired of having fun all the time. …

  7. Phil the Thrill December 29th, 2009 at 12:27 pm

    Crawford doesn’t have top notch on base skills. That’s why people think his game will decline sharply when he starts losing steps.

  8. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 12:27 pm

    Bruney was consistent about being inconsistent.

  9. @ngerman December 29th, 2009 at 12:28 pm

    Brian has his priorities straight.

  10. crawdaddy December 29th, 2009 at 12:28 pm

    If the Yankees are really targeting Crawford then it’s my opinion that they think he’s capable of hitting more homers than his career high and improve his OBP by walking more.

  11. ariel December 29th, 2009 at 12:28 pm

    If Bruney’s first reaction to the trade relates to “growing facial hair”, it tells you something about the guy. His priorities are not those of a true Yankee. No loss, good bye.

  12. Ed H. December 29th, 2009 at 12:29 pm

    Repost:

    Sorry CB, I missed seeing your well layed out 11:31 post.

    Gardner will never improve if he doesn’t get the playing time against harder lefties and doesn’t get the tutelage to do so. My main point, as we have discussed before, is that Gardner needs to get the opportunity to grow before we can evaluate what we have in him. The Yanks have a heritage of eating their young and need to be better at developing them.

  13. Jerkface December 29th, 2009 at 12:29 pm

    Jerkface, I don’t think Gardner is a phenomenal OF under any circumstances, so we disagree there. You make it sound like Granderson is a bad CF – why, because he had a couple of bad games late last year? He’s a very good CF.

    No, I just think Gardner is a better centerfielder than Granderson. I think Granderson is excellent. I just think Gardner is better. I think Granderson would be better in leftfield.

    If my choices are

    CF: +10
    LF: +15

    or

    CF: +15
    LF: +15

    I think I take the second one? Thats just a very simple way with no actual statistical meaning to look at my reasoning behind it.

    You just maximize the talent on the field. Granderson has said he can play left, he has played left before, its no big deal. If Brett is in the game, move Granderson to LF so that Brett can cover our spacious CF and granderson can cover our slightly less spacious LF.

  14. Phil the Thrill December 29th, 2009 at 12:30 pm

    Craw,

    so they think he’ll be a different guy?

  15. crawdaddy December 29th, 2009 at 12:31 pm

    “Crawford doesn’t have top notch on base skills. That’s why people think his game will decline sharply when he starts losing steps.”

    Phil,

    What if he continues to improve his OBP in 2010 like he did in 2009?

  16. Uncle Ellsworth (Expert textpert choking smokers, don't you think the joker laughs at you) December 29th, 2009 at 12:31 pm

    ariel
    December 29th, 2009 at 12:28 pm
    If Bruney’s first reaction to the trade relates to “growing facial hair”, it tells you something about the guy. His priorities are not those of a true Yankee. No loss, good bye.

    This is what I originally thought but maybe he’s just trying to look at the bright side, stiff upper lip and all – IDK

  17. Jerkface December 29th, 2009 at 12:33 pm

    If Bruney’s first reaction to the trade relates to “growing facial hair”, it tells you something about the guy. His priorities are not those of a true Yankee. No loss, good bye.

    I love this psychobabble. What would a true yankee think after being traded away from the yankees? “Oh no, there must be a mistake, I’m a true yankee after all!”

    What should Bruney be thinking now? “@*&$ I’m on the nats now! Ain’t life a peach.”

  18. crawdaddy December 29th, 2009 at 12:33 pm

    “Craw,

    so they think he’ll be a different guy?”

    Phil,

    If they are really targeting him then they must think so because otherwise, it goes against their organizational mindset when it comes to batting approach.

  19. tex's friend December 29th, 2009 at 12:36 pm

    yankees will probably have to overpay for crawford too because i am assuming Boston will look at him and others will want him too.

  20. CB December 29th, 2009 at 12:37 pm

    (repost):

    Curtis Granderson was arguably the second best CF in baseball last year in terms of runs saved. Over the past 3 years he was the 5th best defensive CF.

    There’s no reason to move him, particularly if you want to make that decision based on “advanced metrics.”

  21. BJK December 29th, 2009 at 12:38 pm

    Seriously, what is the guy supposed to say?

    He was traded from the World Champions to the worst team in baseball.

    It’s not like he went there by choice.

    The interview was with the National’s beat writer. Is he supposed to say he never wanted to be traded, the Yankees were awesome and the this team sucks?

    And by the way, he has a point about trying to win as the underdog being fun. ’96 World Series anyone?

  22. blake December 29th, 2009 at 12:38 pm

    going with MH means you have a significant upgrade in LF for 2010 and beyond. Waiting and signing Crawford next year means that you have no upgrade in 2010 and a lesser one for 2011 and beyond.

    Not too difficult a decision if the money is about the same which I suspect it will be

  23. CB December 29th, 2009 at 12:40 pm

    (repost):

    “If the Yankees are starting Brett Gardner, you move Granderson to Left.”

    That’s ridiculous. People have gone over the deep edge on Gardner. It’s really remarkable.

    Granderson was the second best defensive CF in baseball last year by the Fielding Bible.

    And it’s just definitely correct to move a player like that in his prime for a guy who played 630 innings last year just because his UZR was through the roof?

    So if you want to explain why Gardner’s UZR data on a small sample is more valid than Granderson’s Fielding Bible Data is on a much larger sample, please do. The methodological work needed to delineate those two “advanced fielding metrics” has not been done to date as far as I know.

    Players aren’t strat cards.

    It’s remarkable that people who are constantly talking about small sample sizes for nearly every other player are willing to suspend disbelief on Brett Gardner and give a player with such limited skills so much benefit of the doubt.

    It’s really curious why Brett Gardner elicits these kinds of sentiments.

  24. Jerkface December 29th, 2009 at 12:41 pm

    Post Granderson’s fielding bible stats then, CB. Thats not a source readily available to everyone, it costs 20 bux. Post Granderson’s fielding bible (is that plus / minus?) stats and Gardner’s.

    Gardner is certainly faster than Granderson, and UZR has shown no love for Grandy the past 2 years. Meanwhile, it loves Gardner.

    And I don’t think the Yankees should even be starting Gardner (I think I’ve made this clear?), but if they do, why would you NOT put him in Center?

  25. Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2009 at 12:44 pm

    Let’s say the Yanks do have a budget. As to why they might, check out Dave Cameron over at fangraphs:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....-win-curve

    The question in my mind is, and as much as I liked getting Vazquez, if there really is a budget cap would the Yanks have been better off spending the Vazquez money on a left fielder and going with some combination of Hughes, Chamberlain and Gaudin for the last two rotation spots?

  26. Frank December 29th, 2009 at 12:44 pm

    “yankees will probably have to overpay for crawford too because i am assuming Boston will look at him and others will want him too.”

    Wouldn’t totally rule out Crawford being traded at the deadline. Is he a Boras guy? If not, it isn’t out of the realm for the Rays to allow a window to sign Crawford long term so as to maximize their return, is it?

  27. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 12:45 pm

    The Fielding Bible loves Carl Crawford.

  28. Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2009 at 12:47 pm

    “And I don’t think the Yankees should even be starting Gardner (I think I’ve made this clear?), but if they do, why would you NOT put him in Center?”

    You certainly haven’t made that clear. And since other than big names, which renders the argument meaningless, I’m not sure who your Mr. X is who is going to start over Gardner. And Gardner hasn’t played enough for fielding stats to be particularly meaningful.

  29. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 12:49 pm

    “Let’s say the Yanks do have a budget. As to why they might, check out Dave Cameron over at fangraphs:”

    If the Yankees are currently a 102 win team, what are the RS?

  30. CB December 29th, 2009 at 12:49 pm

    “Post Granderson’s fielding bible stats then, CB.”

    Sure:

    Granderson was +15 runs saved in CF this year. That was second best in baseball to Franklin Guittierez (who was through the charts).

    +15 runs is terrific.

    Over the past 3 years Granderson was +24 runs in CF which was 5th best in baseball.

    There’s no reason to move him, especially for Gardner.

  31. Jerkface December 29th, 2009 at 12:49 pm

    I’ve been pretty consistent in referring to Gardner as a 4th OFer. Unless Cashman signs Reed Johnson, who would merely platoon against lefties, Gardner will be on the bench.

  32. Betsy -high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 12:50 pm

    Rich, they either pay now or they pay later…..and dip yet again into their farm system. I can’t imagine Cash would want to do that – he runs the risk of running the cupboard bare. Penny wise, pound foolish.

    CB, I couldn’t agree more with your post about Gardner……

    Stuckey, I am not having a problem grasping fiscal responsibility and I agree with your overall point. However, again – Holliday fills a need. When I think of fiscal irresponsibility, I think of flinging $$ at either (a) unworthy players or (b) big name players who don’t fit on the team, but who ownership feels it would be “neat” to see wearing pinstripes. George lived and died by this philosophy for years; Cash and Hal are a lot smarter and certainly more restrained (fortunately). When I think of fiscal irresponsibility, I don’t think of spending $$$ to fix a problem that is going to exist this year and for the next few years.

  33. Betsy -high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 12:51 pm

    LOL So, Bruney is glad to be on a team with few expectations? Nice attitude.

  34. Betsy -high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 12:52 pm

    LOL It wasn’t fun for Bruney this past year? Let’s see how much fun it is for him in Washington.

  35. Frank December 29th, 2009 at 12:52 pm

    “So if you want to explain why Gardner’s UZR data on a small sample is more valid than Granderson’s Fielding Bible Data is on a much larger sample, please do.”

    I’d be more interested in why Granderson’s Fielding Bible Data is more valid than his UZR Data based on the same sample.

    Not arguing that Gardner should play CF, just seeing that there seems to be a decent amount of disparity in these two measures and wondering whether one is more or less valid than the other?

  36. Jerkface December 29th, 2009 at 12:53 pm

    How did Granderson’s plus/minus break down? Here is Brett Gardner’s

    * Deep fly balls: plus-6
    * Medium fly balls: plus-1
    * Shallow fly balls: plus-4

  37. dsss December 29th, 2009 at 12:53 pm

    Don’t get me wrong, I like Crawford. With all this talk about Crawford in 2011, I seem to remember that he said he wanted to stay in Tampa.

    Comparing him to Holliday:
    1. He’s a speedster. Don’t they have a tendency to decline suddenly and fast?the difference in hitting
    2. They are both 100+K guys; oh boy.
    3. Holliday is the better hitter
    3. He is better defensively, but when the inevitable decline sets in, will he still be good enough to offset.

    People have brought up other names I think we can dismiss as longer term solutions, as they won’t last as quality players, or they have the same negatives- Damon, Dye, Johnson, Ramirez.

    So where does that leave us? There are few options on the horizon going forward more than 1-2 years either in FA or the farm. Do we take Holliday, hope Crawford doesn’t sign an extension, or the Sox don’t get him, try for DeJesus, or just do stop-gap a couple more years and hope for the best?

  38. DaSaint007 December 29th, 2009 at 12:53 pm

    Finally some sane, balanced discussion on this guy. No one ever said he as a better hitter than x or y (insert Holliday and Bay here). Just that as a complete package, IMO, he gives the team the ‘flexibility’ that they seem to now prefer: Youth, talent, speed, range, good arm, character, and just as important – affordability for ge+length of contract.

  39. Jerkface December 29th, 2009 at 12:54 pm

    http://oneifbylandsports.blogs.....balls.html

    I got those numbers from this blog article, which is about Ellsbury not doing well vs shallow fly balls and Gardner excelling against them

  40. Betsy -high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 12:56 pm

    BJK, no he doesn’t have a point……not really. I got plenty of enjoyment out of the Yankees winning even though there was pressure on them. If there’s no pressure, it means that the team isn’t very good. Sometimes I get the idea that Yankee fans just can’t enjoy the “good life”. When they win, it’s never enough – either because they weren’t the underdogs or for some other odd reason.

  41. Comet December 29th, 2009 at 12:56 pm

    Wave Your Hat
    December 29th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
    Let’s say the Yanks do have a budget. As to why they might, check out Dave Cameron over at fangraphs:
    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs…..-win-curve
    The question in my mind is, and as much as I liked getting Vazquez, if there really is a budget cap would the Yanks have been better off spending the Vazquez money on a left fielder and going with some combination of Hughes, Chamberlain and Gaudin for the last two rotation spots?

    ************************************************************

    The old law of marginal utility. We forget it when looking at our team. Unless Gardner is an unmitigated disaster on the level of Tony Womack, we should be fine. If this team can win one hundred games do we really need those extra two wins at a cost of 16 – 18 million a year for the next five years? Better to let Gardner play and to sign a right handed hitting OF for a million or a million and half than spend for something we don’t need.

  42. Borat December 29th, 2009 at 12:56 pm

    I always knew he cared about more about his goatee and less about winning, you could see it on his face. No pun intended.

    Not a big K-Rod fan, but Bruney really sealed his fate with that whole fiasco.

    Do yourself a favor Brian, shut up and pitch.

  43. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 12:57 pm

    There is no comparison between Crawford and Holliday, except that they both play LF, but it doesn’t mean that Crawford doesn’t have value if priced right.

  44. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 12:58 pm

    “The old law of marginal utility. We forget it when looking at our team. Unless Gardner is an unmitigated disaster on the level of Tony Womack, we should be fine. If this team can win one hundred games do we really need those extra two wins at a cost of 16 – 18 million a year for the next five years? Better to let Gardner play and to sign a right handed hitting OF for a million or a million and half than spend for something we don’t need.”

    How does marginal utility account for injuries, age-related declines, and seasonal variation?

  45. Betsy -high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 1:00 pm

    Wave, the Yankees decided that they would rather have a weakness in LF than in the SP.

  46. Frank December 29th, 2009 at 1:00 pm

    “The Fielding Bible loves Carl Crawford.”

    So does UZR.

    Not his arm so much, but his range is off the charts.

  47. rconn23 December 29th, 2009 at 1:01 pm

    “It’s really curious why Brett Gardner elicits these kinds of sentiments.”

    It’s curious, but it happens with a number of Yankee players on this blog.

    Melky Cabrera was apparently the clutchiest, clutch in the history of clutch even though the numbers certainly didn’t bear that out.

    He also “apparently” had an outfield arm that rivaled Ichiro and covered more ground than Mays in his prime.

    He’s a fourth outfielder, of course.

  48. DaSaint007 December 29th, 2009 at 1:02 pm

    edit: affordability for age+length of contract.

  49. randy l. December 29th, 2009 at 1:03 pm

    “I can finally grow some facial hair after four years,” he said. “That’s great. That was one of the first things I thought about. When I was traded, I said, ‘Wow, finally, I can grow a beard.’”

    the first thing i thought of was “great, i don’t have to watch that mental midget anymore”.

  50. DaSaint007 December 29th, 2009 at 1:04 pm

    Rich in NJ
    December 29th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
    There is no comparison between Crawford and Holliday, except that they both play LF, but it doesn’t mean that Crawford doesn’t have value if priced right.

    ———————————————————–
    Disagree with that statement. Of course there is a comparison. Just depends on what you want out of that comparison.

  51. Laura December 29th, 2009 at 1:06 pm

    Bruney will receive his World Series ring in the mail. That had to have soften the blow of being traded to the Nats. I hope he enjoys his beard because that will be the extent of his fun in Washington.

  52. Frank December 29th, 2009 at 1:06 pm

    “I got those numbers from this blog article, which is about Ellsbury not doing well vs shallow fly balls and Gardner excelling against them”

    I’ve noticed Ellsbury does struggle on stuff where he has to come straight in or go straight back. His lateral movement is ridiculous though. He may be better suited to LF, but similar to Gardner, he doesn’t necessarily give you the O you like from that spot.

    Anyone see Hot Stove on MLB last night? I have no clue how many times they repeat those shows, but they had a guest from Chicago (Phil Rogers, maybe?) who was strongly suggesting that the Cubs were making a run at getting Ellsbury from Boston.

  53. DaSaint007 December 29th, 2009 at 1:08 pm

    I still think it more likely that boston and Detroit make a deal than boston and San Diego.

  54. CB December 29th, 2009 at 1:08 pm

    “I’d be more interested in why Granderson’s Fielding Bible Data is more valid than his UZR Data based on the same sample.”

    I’m not in any way saying that it is.

    It’s just that we keep hearing over and over about Gardner’s UZR and never hear about Granderson’s Fielding Bible data just because it happens to not be available for free.

    So I was just bringing up the other side.

    And there’s the whole other side of this which is how does the methodology of both UZR and the Fielding Bible compare which I haven’t seen a great deal on.

  55. Laura December 29th, 2009 at 1:09 pm

    “Anyone see Hot Stove on MLB last night? I have no clue how many times they repeat those shows, but they had a guest from Chicago (Phil Rogers, maybe?) who was strongly suggesting that the Cubs were making a run at getting Ellsbury from Boston.”

    Interesting. That could mean that BOS is going to sign Bay and move Cameron over to CF. The curious part is who are the Cubs going to send to BOS?

  56. CB December 29th, 2009 at 1:11 pm

    “How did Granderson’s plus/minus break down? Here is Brett Gardner’s ”

    Runs saved is more comprehensive than plus/minus.

    And by runs saved Gardner was +7 in 2009, IIRC while Granderson was +15.

  57. Betsy -high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 1:11 pm

    Randy, that’s doing a disservice to midgets. What a piece of work. He didn’t have fun in NY because he spent half his time sulking about the fact that Phil replaced him.

  58. Jerkface December 29th, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    Randy, that’s doing a disservice to midgets.

    They prefer the term miniature people.

  59. Frank December 29th, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    “I’m not in any way saying that it is.”

    CB, I know you’re not.

    “And there’s the whole other side of this which is how does the methodology of both UZR and the Fielding Bible compare which I haven’t seen a great deal on”

    Which was my real question.

  60. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 1:13 pm

    “Disagree with that statement. Of course there is a comparison. Just depends on what you want out of that comparison.”

    wRC+

    Crawford: 111
    Holliday: 139

    OPS+

    Crawford: 103
    Holliday: 133

    Holliday has been basically a 5-6 WAR player every year. Crawford has one year like that (2009). Overall, he has been very up and down.

  61. Frank December 29th, 2009 at 1:14 pm

    “The curious part is who are the Cubs going to send to BOS?”

    This guy was suggesting it was prospects to Boston.

  62. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 29th, 2009 at 1:15 pm

    Laura,

    Hopefully some clown like Zambrano so that he can decimate their clubhouse with his cancerous ways.

    I’d rather have Ellsbury than Cameron…not sure I see the logic in that move.

    But I’d assume that they’d get someone like Lee in return.

    I wonder what the status is with Lowell.

  63. Laura December 29th, 2009 at 1:15 pm

    I think that Carl Crawford is a guy that you have to see a lot to appreciate. We play TB at least 18 times a year so we see him a lot. He looks phenomenal to me. I don’t get into the stats. UZR? WAR? It’s all Greek to me. I go by what I see with my own two eyes. And those eyes tell me that Crawford would be a nice addition to the Yankees.

  64. CB December 29th, 2009 at 1:15 pm

    “It’s curious, but it happens with a number of Yankee players on this blog. ”

    It’s not just this blog. It’s all over the yankees blogosphere.

  65. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 1:16 pm

    Are the Cubs stupid enough to overpay for Ellsbury?

  66. DaSaint007 December 29th, 2009 at 1:16 pm

    Rich,

    Can do you that comparison for Jeter and ARod, the year that ARod came over to the Yanks. Just curious to see who to that point was a better player and a better SS.

    Just wanted to know if the data supported one player moving to a position he never played vs the other.

  67. Laura December 29th, 2009 at 1:17 pm

    “This guy was suggesting it was prospects to Boston.”

    They better be good propects. I think Ellsbury is overrated, but he’s no bum. I’d want decent prospects for him.

  68. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 29th, 2009 at 1:18 pm

    Jerkface,

    Is that a reference to Sherlock Holmes?

    I think that RDJ used the term “ginger midget” upwards of 50 times in two hours.

    Pretty funny.

    I wonder what the proper nomenclature really is these days…seems to flux every couple years which is just stupid if you ask me. Like disabled folk (no offense intended to anyone on here). One year it will be “disabled”, the next year its “handicapped”, then the next its “physically challenged”, then the next it goes back to “disabled”.

    Pick something and leave well enough alone.

  69. dsss December 29th, 2009 at 1:19 pm

    All the talk about the 2011 class focuses on SP and Mauer.

    It seems the Yankees are not looking at a long term solution to the OF. We fans talk about Holliday which is probably unrealistic, and Crawford which may not happen. They both have their pros and cons.

    I’m not promoting acquiring any particular OF. I am willing to see what happens with Gardner this year, but I don’t see him as a longer-term solution.

    Where does that leave us? Are we content to wait and see what develops? I can accept this, but I think we may lose a lot this way.

  70. Laura December 29th, 2009 at 1:20 pm

    “Hopefully some clown like Zambrano so that he can decimate their clubhouse with his cancerous ways.”

    I’m still thanking God that Cashman didn’t make the deal for Zambrano. He’s a loser. No, let me take that back. From what I’ve seen, Zambrano’s problem is that he’s the Ace of a staff w/o being an Ace of a guy. As our #4 starter, he probably would have excelled. The problem arises when you ask him to carry a team. Still, I’m glad he’s not a Yankee. He does have a anger management problem that needs to be addressed.

  71. m December 29th, 2009 at 1:21 pm

    Jerkface,

    Watching with admiration. You are quite persistant! Keep fighting the good fight.

    Regarding Crawford, someone said that speed ages well. That sort of makes sense. Someone who’s fast, will become less fast. Someone who’s slow, will be slower.

    Now, if you want to talk about playing on turf that’s another issue. Though I don’t think Crawford played as many games on turf as long as Matsui did.

    Crawford doesn’t have on-base skills? I thought Crawford was a basestealer? Am I wrong?

  72. Frank December 29th, 2009 at 1:21 pm

    “I’d rather have Ellsbury than Cameron…not sure I see the logic in that move.”

    I don’t know. Cameron is probably the better CF and Ellsbury is a Boras guy, which means no opportunity to buy out arb/FA years similar to deals like Pedroia, Cano, Longoria, etc. Theoretically would create space to make a run at Holliday/Bay.

  73. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 29th, 2009 at 1:23 pm

    dsss,

    what terrifies me though is that the yankees apparently have $175 million committed to 11 players in 2011.

    I think River Ave. Blues posted something about this assuming they resign Jeter and Mo.

    That seems to diminish much flexibility…

  74. CB December 29th, 2009 at 1:25 pm

    Frank,

    To come up with a valid set of methods to compare UZR and the fielding bible would take a substanstial amount of work both in terms of what each system would need to do internally and what they would need to do as a comparison.

    I haven’t seen that fundamental work done, so I really don’t know what to make of comparing the two.

    I don’t however see a particular reason why one is definitively better than the other.

  75. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 1:27 pm

    DaSaint007

    “Rich,
    Can do you that comparison for Jeter and ARod, the year that ARod came over to the Yanks”

    2004?

    wRC+

    Alex: 139
    Jeter: 123

    OPS+

    Alex: 131
    Jeter: 114

    WAR:

    Alex: 6.7
    Jeter: 5

    (SS get a .5 positional adjustment)

  76. dsss December 29th, 2009 at 1:30 pm

    Mad,

    I agree with you.

    I think the Yankees have to stop giving out contracts that are much longer and higher than they should/need. They have been in the habit of doing. Players, agents, and other teams(in trade) expect it. Hopefully this off-season is has helped start the beginning of a change in this perception.

  77. Nick in SF December 29th, 2009 at 1:35 pm

    Betsy, did you just call out Yankee fans for not being able to enjoy the ‘good life’?

  78. #9 December 29th, 2009 at 1:37 pm

    ‘That was one of the first things I thought about. When I was traded, I said, ‘Wow, finally, I can grow a beard.’

    Gee – what a deep thinker…

  79. Betsy -high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 1:38 pm

    LOL Nick, I did, didn’t I? I really am high……but apparently not on pie.

  80. m December 29th, 2009 at 1:39 pm

    How does someone who worries all the time enjoy the ‘good life’?

    :P

    Just kidding, Betsy!

  81. stuckey December 29th, 2009 at 1:39 pm

    “Stuckey, I am not having a problem grasping fiscal responsibility and I agree with your overall point. However, again – Holliday fills a need.”

    He does not fill a “need”. Gardner fills a need, which is to have someone field LF in capable fashion (which he does) and be league average(ish) as a 9th place hitter, which he likely would do (even in the AL).

    Holiday fills a “want”.

    This is the simple crux of the argument. Yanks won the division by 8 games (and qualified for the post-season by 16) and their arguably BETTER today.

    Now bearing in mind, I don’t think anyone here is saying they’d complain were the Yanks to get Holliday, but to refer to him being necessary (the literal definition of the ONLY answer to a need) is simply lacking in perspective.

    Spending $85-$100m to fortify the Yankees already considerable talent gap over the other 10 teams they need to beat out to qualify for the post-season strikes me as the definition of over-compensating.

  82. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 1:41 pm

    I think its time for the Yankees to do away with the no facial hair rule and present that in the Holliday offer. He will be sporting the Abe Lincoln look. While Alex will go with the porn stache running down to his jaw line. Something you would see in a Zorro flick. Joba the rolly fingers look. Hughes the full beard look.

    I wonder what Jeter would sport? French thin mustache maybe? Thoughts?

  83. Sal December 29th, 2009 at 1:42 pm

    every former yankee returns to the stadium with facial hair, its like giving the team the bird because of trading or releasing them. no surprise there with bruney.

  84. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 1:42 pm

    Girardi the tight military stache look.

  85. Betsy -high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 1:43 pm

    The problem with waiting out Gardner is that if he fails (and I think he would), then the other teams will hold the Yankees hostage and the Yanks will be forced to make a bad trade. We have zero OF prospects coming up in the ranks – we need, ideally, a youngish LF that can be a solid part of the team for a few years. That would require making a trade, something I am not in favor of..nor do I see Cash doing that. The farm has already been dinged somewhat. This is not an easy situation to resolve. It’s apparently not all that easy to find a decent LF despite claims that it is.

  86. BJK December 29th, 2009 at 1:44 pm

    Betsy -high on pie
    December 29th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
    BJK, no he doesn’t have a point……not really. I got plenty of enjoyment out of the Yankees winning even though there was pressure on them. If there’s no pressure, it means that the team isn’t very good. Sometimes I get the idea that Yankee fans just can’t enjoy the “good life”. When they win, it’s never enough – either because they weren’t the underdogs or for some other odd reason.

    ——————————————————

    Betsy, with all due respect, I think you’re missing the point. I’m not saying you can’t enjoy winning as the favorites and with tons of pressure. Neither is Bruney.

    I remember being surrounded by Sox fans during the ’96 World Series. No one thought the Yankees had a chance, especially after they were down 0-2 heading to Atlanta. They were severe underdogs. The Braves pitching staff was insane.

    But then they swept in Atlanta and came home and defeated Maddux. Not many saw that coming (for the record, I did, but that’s besides the point :) . )

    There’s something satisfying about rooting for the underdog. People love feel-good stories.

    I’m not saying it’s better than winning as the favorite. I’m saying it’s a different feeling, a different kind of satisfaction when you defy the odds. That’s why Sox fans will never stop talking about ’04.

    With all that said, my main point was that it’s silly to rag on Bruney for comments he made in his new team’s paper. The guy could not have been happy about being traded. What is he supposed to say? He has new fans now, fans that don’t want to hear him lamenting being there. He’s trying to make the best out of a less than ideal situation.

  87. Betsy -high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 1:45 pm

    M, good point! It’s ok for me to worry….I just hate it when other people do, lol

  88. DaSaint007 December 29th, 2009 at 1:45 pm

    Thanks Rich. My point being that numbers don’t tell the whole story, but also that numbers alone isn’t necessarily what some jugements are made on.

    ARod stistically was a better player than Jeter, but the ‘lesser’ player kept his postion, arguably to the potential detriment of the team. But as far as being complementary on the team, it all works out.

    That’s my point in a Crawford vs Holliday comparison. One is ‘better statistically’ in some areas than the other. But overall, one may be a better fit as a ‘sum of the part’s analysis.

  89. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 1:48 pm

    DaSaint007

    A-Rod comparisons aside, Jeter is a very unique player. I’m not sure that Crawford (or many other players) can be used as a readily translatable comparison to him.

  90. Nick in SF December 29th, 2009 at 1:49 pm

    “Someone who’s fast, will become less fast. Someone who’s slow, will be slower.”

    Speed is probably not an important component to the slower player’s game and his speed probably isn’t diminishing at the same percentage as the faster player’s speed is.

    The fear that people are expressing about Crawford (which I neither endorse nor refute) is that his speed might diminish not just due to age but also due to the beating his knees have taken on the Tampa turf.

  91. dsss December 29th, 2009 at 1:49 pm

    Stucky,

    I agree with you that Holliday is a want rather than a need. I don’t think the Yankees need Holliday. I think they should pass on him as it will give flexibility and send a strong method going forward.

    However, I think that is true at this point in time only. I can’t help but wonder whether passing at this time will come back to bite us.

  92. stuckey December 29th, 2009 at 1:50 pm

    btw – I’m become convinced that NO ONE can actually define what a “4th outfielder” is.

    It’s sort of like pornography – the “I know it when I see it” argument.

    I’m open to ANY brave soul’s attempt to define it.

    Alternately, I’d be satisfied to see someone – anyone – explain how a player that consistently ranked in the 45-50 range in offensive metrics for major league outfielders (and likely much higher defensively) only qualifies as a 4th outfielder?

    Those who use the term apparently seem unaware that qualifying outfielders numerically REQUIRES you consider there at 30 ML teams and 3 outfield spots per team … or in other words 30 x 3 = ????????

  93. Bronx Jeers December 29th, 2009 at 1:51 pm

    I would have loved to see Kei Igawa with a beard but I don’t think he can grow one.

  94. Jerkface December 29th, 2009 at 1:52 pm

    Those who use the term apparently seem unaware that qualifying outfielders numerically REQUIRES you consider there at 30 ML teams and 3 outfield spots per team … or in other words 30 x 3 = ????????

    Ehh I see the argument, but not every team is able to field competent players at every position. So while it might be technically true that Player X is better than 30 starting major league outfielders, he might be worse than the 12 starting outfielders you are really worried about (your main competition).

  95. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 29th, 2009 at 1:53 pm

    You know, someone on here brought this up yesteday for LF: Randy Winn

    As a 9 hole hitter, he would theoretically be pretty darned cheap, is a veteran, and wouldn’t require a long contract.

    If we traded Mitre it’d seem that $$$ wouldn’t be an issue.

    Although I must say, I am pro-Hairston.

  96. DaSaint007 December 29th, 2009 at 1:54 pm

    Stop this BS turf talk.
    He’s 28, not 38 or 36, or 34, or 32, or 30.

    Crawford is 28 freaking years old. Prove to me STATISTICALLY, since folks are pronet to statistics, that the majority (that’s defined as greater than 51%) of ‘fast’ players lose their speed shortly after age 29.

    Prove it.

    I’m 43 and as a former track ‘star’ can still outrun most of my peers (at least my mind says so. maybe that did stop at 38, but not 28). FCS!

  97. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 1:54 pm

    Who on the team would sport this look?
    http://www.movieforum.com/movi.....less.shtml

  98. Vincent December 29th, 2009 at 1:55 pm

    A 4th outfielder is someone who is good enough to spot start and has versatility. They don’t have the talent or stamina to play every day. Not that hard to define.

  99. Betsy -high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 1:56 pm

    Stuckey, therein lies the crux of the matter……we disagree on Gardner. I don’t think he’s at all capable of being a starter. Do we technically NEED a Holliday? No, because we have a damn good lineup; he’d help, but we don’t NEED him to be good. That said, we need a good LF; IMO, Gardner is not that. Holliday would fill our need for several years, during which time we’d hopefully develop a young OF or two. Also, when does Swisher’s contract expire? 2011? We’ll need a RF as well unless we re-sign him.

  100. Nick in SF December 29th, 2009 at 1:57 pm

    “I’m 43 and as a former track ’star’ can still outrun most of my peers”

    Are you Brett Gardner in the future?????

  101. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 1:58 pm

    Turf Smurf. Sign both Crawford and our very own track star Saint himself as a pinch runner for him. Problem solved.

  102. Bronx Jeers December 29th, 2009 at 1:58 pm

    But maybe Crawford’s relatively low OBP has kept those knees nice and new!

    Not much wear & tear walking from the plate to dugout and back.

  103. stuckey December 29th, 2009 at 1:59 pm

    “So while it might be technically true that Player X is better than 30 starting major league outfielders, he might be worse than the 12 starting outfielders you are really worried about (your main competition).”

    And this is when you tie the various factors all together.

    Last season a “4th outfielder” was evaluated as being the strongest 8th/9th hole hitter of the 8 teams that qualified for the post-season (to respond to you point).

    That 4th outfielder went on to win a championship.

    That 4th outfielder was plenty good enough to help accomplish EVERYTHING a team can hope to accomplish in one year.

    Kind of makes you question the definition of “4th outfielder”, no?

  104. Nick in SF December 29th, 2009 at 1:59 pm

    “Turf Smurf”

    You’re thinking about Boise State, aren’t you?

  105. Bill December 29th, 2009 at 1:59 pm

    Crawford also has power, which will translate to 20 HRs probably in NYS, and hits around .300. He also is a phenomenal defensive player who has a great arm and can play all 3 OF spots.

    People are acting like this guy is Brett Gardner. Crawford is an all-star player that would fit excellently at the top of our lineup.

  106. Phil the Thrill December 29th, 2009 at 1:59 pm

    m,

    he can’t steal first, so even though he is a good base stealer, he has not be a good on base percentage guy for the majority of his career.

  107. DaSaint007 December 29th, 2009 at 2:00 pm

    S.o.S. & Nick, LOL @ both of you!

    I turned them down years ago. Wanted to pay me too much money to play 2B. Only wanted $1m/year, but they offered 3. Said it was too much.

    Right…

  108. stuckey December 29th, 2009 at 2:00 pm

    “A 4th outfielder is someone who is good enough to spot start and has versatility. They don’t have the talent or stamina to play every day. Not that hard to define.”

    And by that definition, Melky Cabrera is NO 4th outfielder.

  109. Bronx 77 December 29th, 2009 at 2:02 pm

    We have no bench, no left fielder, and an iffy bullpen (even if Joba is in there— he was awful in the WS.)

    Time for Cash to start fixing our wholes rather than going into the season with them and expecting other teams to help him out— because it ain’t going to happen unless Cash is willing to pay.

  110. m December 29th, 2009 at 2:02 pm

    Nick,

    So let me get this clear. Crawford’s a pretty good fielder, right? And people are saying his only skill is speed?

    And I did acknowledge the turf issue. Separate from the speed issue.

    I wouldn’t give the guy an 8 year contract, but what about a contract similar to the one given to a 32 year old Damon?

    And I’m not real, real high on Crawford. Just wondering if people are downplaying Crawford because they really, really want Holliday.

    Crawford did set the modern-day record with 6 steals against the Red Sox this season. But it was the Red Sox! lol.

  111. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 2:04 pm

    Tell the truth Saint. You turned them down becuase they wanted you to shave the double chin detractor.

  112. m December 29th, 2009 at 2:05 pm

    The only bench player used on a regular basis last season was Gardner, no? With all the players left out in the cold due to the market collapsing, I’d wait.

  113. DaSaint007 December 29th, 2009 at 2:05 pm

    I’d give no one an 8 year contract. No one.

  114. Stan December 29th, 2009 at 2:06 pm

    Melky hit .280 with 13 HRs, almost 70 RBIs and got a ton of clutch hits and played GREAT defense as a #9 hitter.

    What do you want from your 9th hitter– .300/25/95?

    Yankee fans are soooo spoiled. 9 all-stars are the only thing that is acceptable…..

  115. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 29th, 2009 at 2:06 pm

    Jesus, who cares about Carl Crawford right now?!

    Why don’t we worry about 2010 since Crawford is not on our team.

    He’s good, sure, but right now he is moot in Yankeeland.

  116. stuckey December 29th, 2009 at 2:06 pm

    “Stuckey, therein lies the crux of the matter……we disagree on Gardner. I don’t think he’s at all capable of being a starter.”

    And by that do you mean the Yankees cannot qualify for the post-season with Gardner getting significant time in LF?

    “That said, we need a good LF;”

    I’ll say it again. I don’t think the Yankees NEED a “good” LF.

    Of course everyone WANTS a “good” LF, but that isn’t the same thing.

    Question – and I’m not asking you for a prediction, just an opinion.

    Yanks go into 2010 with Gardner in left – they aa play-off team, yes or no?

    “Also, when does Swisher’s contract expire? 2011? We’ll need a RF as well unless we re-sign him.”

    I believe he has a team option for 2012.

  117. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 2:07 pm

    It is more than a little chilling that Alex’s contract still has 8 years to run and he will be 35 this season.

  118. DaSaint007 December 29th, 2009 at 2:07 pm

    Damnit S.o.S. Stop blowing up my spot.
    Actually the way my wife and her family cook, that double chin will be here in no time.

  119. tex's friend December 29th, 2009 at 2:08 pm

    same broken record every off season. no bench, no bullpen yadda yadda. the bullpen is still one of the best with what we have there now. the bench? Show me a team that puts 4 superstars on their bench!

    the bench guys are there as back ups to rest starters ‘once in a while’. we did just fine with molina, pena, gardner, etc before we got Hinske and Hairston.

    You people act like Cashman just sits on his hands expecting to win every year. We dont have to deal everyday to win anything.

    Again, someone show me a team, in the AL especially, who sports some sort of amazing bench …

  120. DaSaint007 December 29th, 2009 at 2:08 pm

    Alex’s contract was the dumbest one known to man. No player should ever receive a contract longer than 6 years, in my opinion.

  121. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 2:09 pm

    The bench should be filled by prospects.

  122. Brian B December 29th, 2009 at 2:09 pm

    “It is more than a little chilling that Alex’s contract still has 8 years to run and he will be 35 this season.”

    See? He’ll never get to have facial hair.

  123. DaSaint007 December 29th, 2009 at 2:10 pm

    As far as the bench is concerned, I wouldn’t mind having Hairston back due to his versatility. Doesn’t mean I want to lose Pena though.

  124. JJ December 29th, 2009 at 2:10 pm

    Per Francessa – Only thing left with Bay is the physical… if they come out clear, the Mets will announce his signing after the weekend.

  125. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 2:11 pm

    DaSaint007

    Were you against the Teix and CC signings (they are much younger)?

  126. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 2:11 pm

    Man, the Mets are really doing their best to suck up to Francessr.

  127. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 2:12 pm

    “Turf Smurf”

    You’re thinking about Boise State, aren’t you?

    =========

    Nick,
    I wish other colleges would have the cajones to do that. Look at how boise state blends with its turf. Can you say homefield advantage? All they need to do is paint the balls blue and the opponents wont even know who to tackle.

    I wish the Longhorns would sport a burnt orange field.

  128. Largo December 29th, 2009 at 2:13 pm

    “We have no bench, no left fielder, and an iffy bullpen (even if Joba is in there— he was awful in the WS.)”

    Really, Joba was awful in the World Series?

    Let’s see – in Game 3 he retired the side in order,

    Game 4 he gave up the game tying home run to Feliz but struck out the side,

    Game 6 he got Feliz to ground out to end an inning with a runner on second, then got two outs in the next inning while giving up a single and a walk.

    So 1 run in three innings, no inherited runners scored. Not bad in your first World Series.

    Feliz made good contact – it went over the fence. It happens.

    If that is awful then CC must be absolutely terrible giving up all those home runs to Utley.

  129. DaSaint007 December 29th, 2009 at 2:13 pm

    Rich, I was for both. But I wouldn’t have given any player longer than 6 years. I just think that’s too much of a risk. I understand the thinking because of their relative age and effectiveness, but more than 6 years seems like too much, too risky.

  130. Frank December 29th, 2009 at 2:13 pm

    “the bench guys are there as back ups to rest starters ‘once in a while’. we did just fine with molina, pena, gardner, etc before we got Hinske and Hairston.”

    Could be looked at this way. But riddle me this. If it was “fine”, why’d they have to go get Hairston and Hinske?

  131. Nick in SF December 29th, 2009 at 2:14 pm

    “Crawford’s a pretty good fielder, right? And people are saying his only skill is speed?”

    I don’t think anyone has said that; I wouldn’t.

    My response was just about your ‘everyone loses speed’ comment, which is superficially similar to the ‘everyone po-ops’ video that my little nephew watches.

    Everyone loses speed but not at the same rate, not at the same percentage of the speed they had, and not at the same detriment to their performance.

    Crawford has a good skill set beyond his speed. He also might not be available to us and he can’t help us in 2010. Except by stealing more bases against Boston.

  132. stuckey December 29th, 2009 at 2:14 pm

    “Time for Cash to start fixing our wholes rather than going into the season with them and expecting other teams to help him out— because it ain’t going to happen unless Cash is willing to pay.”

    Do some of your people even follow the Yankees…?

    *The New York Yankees acquired infielder Jerry Hairston Jr. from the Cincinnati Reds on Friday, giving them a versatile player who has appeared at six positions this season.

    The Reds received minor league catcher Chase Weems in the deal.

    * The Yankees moved Tuesday to add a versatile bat to Joe Girardi’s lineup card, acquiring Eric Hinske from the Pirates in exchange for Minor League right-hander Casey Erickson and outfielder Eric Fryer.

    * The Yankees have acquired Chad Guadin from the San Diego Padres for a player to be named later.

    Yeah, Cashman paid through the nose….

  133. PC Dave December 29th, 2009 at 2:14 pm

    There were rumblings that Hinske wasn’t happy with his playing time down the stretch here (I think it was Mark Feinsaid? who mentioned this in one of his recent live chats).

    So I guess that is why there is no news regarding us and him. Hinske could probably start for many teams, he can hit 20 HRs and would get ABs almost every night if he played in the NL. He won’t get that playing time here.

  134. Largo December 29th, 2009 at 2:15 pm

    “Alex’s contract was the dumbest one known to man. No player should ever receive a contract longer than 6 years, in my opinion.”

    I’d vote for the Gary Matthews contract.

    I’d also vote for the Wayne Garland contract, but that just tells you how old I am.

  135. tex's friend December 29th, 2009 at 2:15 pm

    Cervelli, Pena, (Hoffman or Johnson), and one other should be fine. Particularly with Cervelli and Pena, we have seen both of them step up when they have to. Gardner too as an option. Would it be nice to have one utility man who can come up and hammer the snot out of the ball? sure…

    Can Reed Johnson play both corner outfields because we still need someone who can back up Swisher too…

  136. stuckey December 29th, 2009 at 2:15 pm

    “Could be looked at this way. But riddle me this. If it was “fine”, why’d they have to go get Hairston and Hinske?”

    The were in first place when they got them.

    The meets my definition of “fine”, how about yours?

  137. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 2:16 pm

    Again, someone show me a team, in the AL especially, who sports some sort of amazing bench …

    =========

    O.k. fine tex. Ill give you that. But can we atleast get an all star bat boy? Work with me here.

  138. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 2:16 pm

    DaSaint007

    But 8 years was probably the only way to get them.

  139. Nick in SF December 29th, 2009 at 2:17 pm

    “All they need to do is paint the balls blue and the opponents wont even know who to tackle.”

    That explains BYU’s success with all those Mormon players.

    I really don’t like Mack Brown, therefore I really don’t like Texas. Cal is going to have a home-and-away series with Texas in a few years… with our luck, Tedford will be gone by then and we’ll be a Pac-10 doormat again and meet further humilation. But I hope not.

  140. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 2:18 pm

    Would it be nice to have one utility man who can come up and hammer the snot out of the ball? sure…

    ====

    Can we at least get someone with more than infield track power?

  141. tex's friend December 29th, 2009 at 2:18 pm

    Could be looked at this way. But riddle me this. If it was “fine”, why’d they have to go get Hairston and Hinske?

    ___

    Same reason people go out in july and pick up players. They are available. Same thing they will do this year when they get to the deadline and need someone on their bench.

    That’s how it always works. You fill your needs in july for the stretch by taking players from teams who are out of it and shedding payroll.

  142. DaSaint007 December 29th, 2009 at 2:18 pm

    Yeah, Rich, I know. I would have given it to them too. What can I say.

  143. Frank December 29th, 2009 at 2:18 pm

    “The meets my definition of “fine”, how about yours?”

    Mine doesn’t matter. The Yankees obviously didn’t think it was fine.

  144. webster here December 29th, 2009 at 2:19 pm

    btw – I’m become convinced that NO ONE can actually define what a “4th outfielder” is.
    ———————————————————
    not good enough to be one of the 3 starting OF’ers – not bad enough to be outright DFA’d or sent down to the minors (if he has any options left) won’t get much for him in a trade either

  145. Melk Man December 29th, 2009 at 2:19 pm

    Now that Damon and Matsui are gone and A-Rod is a yr removed from his surgery, we don’t have many guys in the lineup who need a lot of rest, except Posada.

    Last year, A-Rod needed a day off every week, and we had Damon/Matsui who were rested often.

    Jeter, Cano, Tex, Granderson, Swisher, NJ (if he doesn’t get hurt), whoever is in LF, and A-Rod will play almost everyday and play 155 games.

    That is one of the reasons why good bench players will be reluctant to sign here. They know they are almost never going to play, unless they are desperate to win a ring. That is also a reason why we don’t need to spend big money on the bench. If we need some guy, we can find a million utility players at the deadline.

  146. tex's friend December 29th, 2009 at 2:21 pm

    On august 1, we will have the power bench we need to head into the postseason. until then, we will have cervelli, pena and Gardner/Johnson. If posada gets hurt again, particularly late in the season, i wouldnt be stunned if we see Montero in the majors (if he is progressing).

    Miranda/Curtis. There are always options and Cashman has waited too long to be in charge to f it all up so i wouldnt worry… he knows a lot better than the fans do.

  147. Jaffa Leader December 29th, 2009 at 2:22 pm

    I would think the Mets would have more fanfare for this, if its true
    Mets To Announce Bay Signing Next Week?
    WFAN’s Mike Francesa says the Mets will announce a Jason Bay signing early next week, if his physical checks out. Francesa’s report also included previously-known info about Bengie Molina seeking three years and the Mets offering one plus a vesting option.

    It’s a strange way for news of a major agreement to break, though Francesa did not use the word “agreement.” It’s also strange that Francesa would sit on this news for a full day and make the announcement with no enthusiasm.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....-week.html

  148. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 2:22 pm

    “There were rumblings that Hinske wasn’t happy with his playing time down the stretch here (I think it was Mark Feinsaid? who mentioned this in one of his recent live chats).”

    That Feinsand always focuses on the negative….

    j/k Who cares. It’s about money in the end.

  149. DaSaint007 December 29th, 2009 at 2:22 pm

    ARod will probably still need time off, as will Posada. Jeter will get more rest than last year. So good infield defensive backup on occassion will be helpful.

  150. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 2:22 pm

    Nick,
    You dont have to sit and have a beer with the guy. I do like the Cal Bears uni’s. Did you know that Oregan changes its uniforms and goes all out just to luer players over? I was just talking to my son yesterday during the football game of why NFL teams to go futuristic on us with their uniforms like college does. Bears unis have looked like that forever. They can use a change. My colts need new ones as well. Maybe a horseshoe on thier backs coming out lining the names and numbers.

  151. tex's friend December 29th, 2009 at 2:24 pm

    Bay signed with the Mets. Johnny could end up back here with the Pettitte09 treatment. 1 / 5.5M. He will not be happy, but whatever.

    Cashman is waiting for the right opportunity to drop in his lap and getting the big FAs down to his level will still work. Damon wouldnt bat 2nd anymore though. Johnson has a WAYYYY better OBP. Damon can bat 7th or 8th in this lineup. A lot of lefties at the bottom in that situation though.

    5-9. granderson, posada, cano, damon, swisher?

  152. TD213 December 29th, 2009 at 2:24 pm

    A-Rod’s contract is the worst contract in sports.

    And now that his HR record is illegitimate, it is even worse. They can’t celebrate his milestones with a straight face… Though they will probably still get YES ratings, even though the records don’t mean anything.

  153. dadofjft December 29th, 2009 at 2:25 pm

    Heyman is confirming the Bay signing. A mistake by both parties, I think.

  154. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 2:25 pm

    btw – I’m become convinced that NO ONE can actually define what a “4th outfielder” is.
    ———————————————————
    not good enough to be one of the 3 starting OF’ers – not bad enough to be outright DFA’d or sent down to the minors (if he has any options left) won’t get much for him in a trade either

    ========

    AAAA player?

  155. jpb1973 December 29th, 2009 at 2:25 pm

    In regards to the Mets signing Jason Bay…I think that he is a bad fit (both offensively and defenseively) for that stadium. Either the guy is dumb or needs the money more than anyone knows but, he clearly would be a better fit in Fenway Park.

    At any rate, its better for the Yankees that he’s no longer in Boston.

  156. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 2:26 pm

    “A-Rod’s contract is the worst contract in sports.”

    I disagree because unlike most players in sports, he supposedly generates significant income.

  157. stuckey December 29th, 2009 at 2:26 pm

    “not good enough to be one of the 3 starting OF’ers – not bad enough to be outright DFA’d or sent down to the minors (if he has any options left) won’t get much for him in a trade either”

    Thank you for making my point for me.

    Define, “good enough to be one of the 3 starting OF’ers”?

  158. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 2:26 pm

    “Heyman is confirming the Bay signing. A mistake by both parties, I think.”

    Bay’s eventual heirs disagree.

  159. Frank December 29th, 2009 at 2:26 pm

    “…..and make the announcement with no enthusiasm.”

    Probably was channeling his inner Jason Bay.

  160. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 2:27 pm

    If bay signs with the mets and boston was planning on unloading Elsbury to make room for him. Will they jump in the Holliday sweapstakes?

  161. tex's friend December 29th, 2009 at 2:27 pm

    A-Rod’s contract is the worst contract in sports.

    And now that his HR record is illegitimate, it is even worse. They can’t celebrate his milestones with a straight face… Though they will probably still get YES ratings, even though the records don’t mean anything.

    ___

    David Beckham is the worst contract in history. A-Rod is still producing so it is hard to close the book on how bad his is.

    Beckham was given 5/250M. Sorry but A-Rod 10/275 + 25 is much better than that deal anyday of the week.

  162. Doreen - Ain't it Just "Grand"? December 29th, 2009 at 2:28 pm

    Good luck to Brian Bruney. I hope he wins the closer job out there – it’s something he’s been working towards.

    I’ll be the first thought of every guy traded TO the Yankees is, “darn, there goes the ‘stache,” so why wouldn’t the first thought upon being traded FROM the Yankees be “hey, I can grow a beard if I want to.” In fact, I wonder how many ex-Yankees who would not normally want facial hair decide to grow it just because they can. :lol:

    I think he’s taking the right attitude into that clubhouse – winning is fun, and can be even more fun when they don’t expect you to. And who can argue that the very winning Yankees until last season sometimes seemed like a joyless group?

  163. Brave December 29th, 2009 at 2:28 pm

    PC,

    Not a surprise… there were rumblings in Pittsburgh and Tampa that he was not happy with his playing time there either. Hinske isin’t going to play much with a good team in the AL unless there is an injury.

    His best bet is to find team in the NL, a good team like the Cubs, Cards, Braves, Dodgers, etc. where he can play a lot.

  164. blake December 29th, 2009 at 2:29 pm

    If the bay report is true then Boras just lost his only shot at being bailed out of his Holliday stalemate…

  165. Jerkface December 29th, 2009 at 2:29 pm

    XM Radio says the Angels are still trying to deal Juan Rivera for a pitcher. I’d trade any combination of Aceves, Guadin, Mitre + prospects for Rivera to cover LF.

  166. Nick in SF December 29th, 2009 at 2:29 pm

    S.o.S., I don’t care about his personality, I care about his sleazy business practices, specifically how he played the coaches’ good ‘ol boy network to keep Cal out of the Rose Bowl a few years ago.

    Never mind that Texas played a great game in that Rose Bowl that set themselves up for the BCS championship they got the following season while Cal laid an egg vs. Texas Tech in the consolation Holiday Bowl — that’s not the point.

    Oregon does change up its uniform all the time… in the service of their Nike masters.

  167. tex's friend December 29th, 2009 at 2:30 pm

    Bay benefitted from the monstahhhh which accounts for a big of his power numbers. bad for his is that his avg was still only .250. Righties avg should always go up at fenway like hrs for a lefty in YS. bad news for the mets is that his average was still low even with the wall that has helped Lowell, Pedroia, Youkilis and co.

  168. Jerkface December 29th, 2009 at 2:30 pm

    Vernon Wells has the worst contract in MLB history. A-rod atleast hits dingers.

  169. stuckey December 29th, 2009 at 2:30 pm

    “Mine doesn’t matter. The Yankees obviously didn’t think it was fine.”

    Then why did they wait until the trading deadline?

    Do you honestly not understand they wait until the last minute because players like Hairston and Hinske come at little cost trade wise AND because they only have to pay a third of their salary by getting them in late July?

    Seriously, the concept of FORTIFYING your team at the trade deadline in professionals sports completely eludes you?

  170. ray (sox fan) December 29th, 2009 at 2:30 pm

    Any one know the terms of the Jason Bay contract?

  171. jpb1973 December 29th, 2009 at 2:31 pm

    Heyman is confirming the Bay signing. A mistake by both parties, I think.

    ——————————————————-

    I agree!!! Unless they move in the fences at Citifield, Jason Bay will struggle to hit homeruns and drive in runs there. Additionally, he his play in the outfield will hurt the Mets.

    If I were Bay, I would have taken less money to play in Texas or Boston. But, since he’s hurt the Yankees over the past few years, I’m glad to see him out of the AL.

  172. Doreen - Ain't it Just "Grand"? December 29th, 2009 at 2:31 pm

    ** that should read I’ll BET the first thought, not I’ll be. I somehow doubt I will be the first thought of anyone except my kids when they’re hungry!! :lol:

  173. tex's friend December 29th, 2009 at 2:32 pm

    Juan Rivera is a terrible outfielder, but a former Yankee farmhand and we seem to be in the mood to bring some back. Juan Rivera’s bat would surely trump Gardner’s and Gardner can still do late inning replacement.

  174. Melk Man December 29th, 2009 at 2:32 pm

    “ARod will probably still need time off, as will Posada. Jeter will get more rest than last year. So good infield defensive backup on occassion will be helpful.”

    True… but A-Rod isin’t going to need one day a week off like he needed this year, now that he is further removed from his surgery. Jeter hates to sit… Girardi is going to have a hard time getting him to sit more than once a month, even if he needs it.

    Posada will prob. only play 115 games, but he can only be replaced with a catcher anyway, and we have that position covered (Cervelli).

    I would love a good back up INF… but it seems Cash is satisfied with Pena/Russo.

  175. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 2:33 pm

    “Any one know the terms of the Jason Bay contract?”

    4 for 65m has been reported in recent days.

  176. Soul December 29th, 2009 at 2:33 pm

    Good news for us— now Bay can’t go back to Boston. Sox still need a big bat. Good thing they didn’t get him back at a discount. They could have really used him, if their budget allowed it.

  177. tex's friend December 29th, 2009 at 2:34 pm

    Dont want to lose Aceves though. Definitely would part with Mitre/Gaudin and something of moderate value for Rivera.

  178. CB December 29th, 2009 at 2:35 pm

    Jason Bay once ran very well. He also was once a good (not great) defensive player. He used to even play some innings in CF for the Bucs.

    And then he hurt his knee. And his defensive range plummeted and never recovered.

    And all of his defensive value turned into a huge negative because he’d lost his speed and range. Metrics suggest that Bay’s defense is so bad now that it eats up much of the value his bat creates.

    This is a classic Mets signing. Bay is going to have a terrible time covering that enormous LF at Citi.

  179. R-Tek December 29th, 2009 at 2:35 pm

    If LAA trades Rivera, that must mean they want Holliday.

    Unless they plan on replacing him with Reggie Wiltis?

  180. Hey Kelvin says December 29th, 2009 at 2:35 pm

    A-rod is actually very productive, so you guys can’t say jack stuff about his Contract.

    The only demise of his contract is those Bonus Awards for the HR Milestones which many consider illegitimate. As a fan and longtime follower however, I believe he will be pardoned and his milestones will be celebrated especially if and when he reaches 800+ HR.

    Vernon Wells and Barry Zito are bad contracts, Not Alex Rodriguez however.

  181. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 2:37 pm

    Nick,
    The good ole boy connections didnt help him last year get hosed and outed from the championship game. Time for an 8 team playoff already!! Was switching from the game last night to espn classics USC vs. TEXAS 06. IMO, best game ever boise vs. oklahoma coming in a close second. Cant believe how USC didnt win that game. Carroll calling a pass play(incomplete)with 2.20 left rather than eating up the clock. This year seems to resemble that year. Huge underdogs. Heisman on the other side. Rose Bowl. Hope the results are the same.

    Oregan has 7 different uni’s this year.

    Zito’s contract has to rank up there.

  182. tex's friend December 29th, 2009 at 2:37 pm

    still dont see how anyone can argue that Beckham’s Galaxy contract isnt the worst in sports history.

  183. Bill December 29th, 2009 at 2:38 pm

    Neither Holliday nor Bay are Citi Field players.

    You might as well sign the cheaper guy and have extra money for the 2011 market.

  184. stuckey December 29th, 2009 at 2:38 pm

    “Beckham was given 5/250M. Sorry but A-Rod 10/275 + 25 is much better than that deal anyday of the week.”

    No he wasn’t. He got like $6.5m per year salary from the Galaxy. The $250m was essentially a publicity stunt, and most of it was based on “endorsement” deals the move to the U.S. would apparently create for him.

  185. vtred December 29th, 2009 at 2:39 pm

    “If the bay report is true then Boras just lost his only shot at being bailed out of his Holliday stalemate…”

    Bingo. Unless he is still holding out hope for Seattle or some team, he’s probably inching closer to taking the Cards’ offer.

  186. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 2:39 pm

    Why not continue the 09 Yankee reunion trades and get back Rivera. It only makes sense.

  187. Northy December 29th, 2009 at 2:39 pm

    Look at the Yankeess with and without A-Rod… And then tell me if he is producing or not ;)

  188. Yankee Trader December 29th, 2009 at 2:39 pm

    XM Radio says the Angels are still trying to deal Juan Rivera for a pitcher. I’d trade any combination of Aceves, Guadin, Mitre + prospects for Rivera to cover LF.
    —————————————————-

    It’ll take quite a bit more than that to get Rivera. In reality they really want to unload Gary Matthews, another one of those bad contracts, to go along with Kevin Brown, Mike Hampton, Steve Avery.

  189. Robbykid December 29th, 2009 at 2:40 pm

    anyone hearing the rumors that the Red Sox are trading Bucholz and Ellisbury, for AGonzo, then possibly signing Holliday??

  190. pat December 29th, 2009 at 2:40 pm

    “Alex’s contract was the dumbest one known to man.”

    IMO, not even the worst one given to a Yankee to date. Need to see the results a few more years down the road to even consider it in the conversation for dumbest.

    For example, $40M for Pavano was so far worse than the $63M they’ve paid Alex so far on this deal or the 6 yrs and $125M they’ve paid him since 2004.

  191. Holliday - Celebrate December 29th, 2009 at 2:41 pm

    holliday (or at the very least damon)will be a yankee on January 13th…

    regarding the yankees bench – would it be sacrilegious to sign jason giambi for slightly higher than league minimum (say 500K) plus a few cases of Jack Daniels? lets say no one signs him for 2 million (which is what i am assuming he is looking for) and he’s still out there – it gives the yankees power off the bench in pinch hitting situations (something they don’t have with the current bench)he still has a pretty decent eye to at least get a walk if needed and he can play at DH when nick johnson inevitably goes on his annual DL visit – he also can fill in as the 5th place hitter (in case holliday doesn’t sign) when posada gets his day(s) off

  192. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 2:41 pm

    Juan Rivera is owed $5.25M in 2011. I’m not willing to add payroll in that year for a non-star.

  193. X-Mann December 29th, 2009 at 2:42 pm

    A-Rod is 35 yrs old. He has already had hip surgery. He is a former steroid user. He is signed for 8 more years.

    This contract is going to hurt us badly in a couple of years. 8 more years. What steroid user has aged well?

    It is not the worst contract, YET, but it is bound to become just that in a few years.

  194. tex's friend December 29th, 2009 at 2:42 pm

    by baseball standards alone, Wells, Zito have to be near the top. I’d even try to make a case that Soriano is getting way overpaid too…

  195. Frank December 29th, 2009 at 2:43 pm

    “Juan Rivera is a terrible outfielder”

    UZR loved him in 2009. Likes him in left. Not so much in right.

  196. Jerkface December 29th, 2009 at 2:43 pm

    anyone hearing the rumors that the Red Sox are trading Bucholz and Ellisbury, for AGonzo, then possibly signing Holliday??

    They are trading Jacoby Salisbury for Agonzo bean.

  197. Betsy -high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 2:44 pm

    Bay to Mets for 4 years…….He clearly didn’t want to go there, but no one was interested. To me, that’s unbelievable that he and Holliday would basically garner no interest from any team except 1

  198. Mike December 29th, 2009 at 2:44 pm

    I’d argue that the AJ Burnett contract is worse then A-Rod’s. It was riskier giving AJ the 5 years last year than giving A-Rod 10 years in 2007.

    I’d also argue that if we re-sign a 35 yr old Vasquez like some have suggested, that will be one of the worst contract’s of all-time.

    I’d say Posada’s contract is worse than A-Rod’s.

  199. Nick in SF December 29th, 2009 at 2:44 pm

    How about Barry Bonds for some pop off the bench? :)

    S.o.S.: Obviously Mack Brown can’t weasel Texas into better bowls that it deserves every single year, it just happens that my team got screwed one of the years he did. No offense, but I hope Alabama rocks them.

  200. CB December 29th, 2009 at 2:44 pm

    It’s also really kind of sad that the Mets would feel the need to leak this story to Francessa just in order to drum up more media buzz.

    Francessa was so confident that he would have a scoop on this that he announces yesterday that he’d have a major story today.

    Rather unusual in the age of Twitter with everyone rushing to break stories.

    But the Mets wanted this staged. What a strange organization.

  201. dadofjft December 29th, 2009 at 2:45 pm

    Sherman says 4 yrs for $66M with easy vesting for a 5th year.

  202. jpb1973 December 29th, 2009 at 2:45 pm

    anyone hearing the rumors that the Red Sox are trading Bucholz and Ellisbury, for AGonzo, then possibly signing Holliday??

    —————————————————–

    Nope…I’m not hearing that rumor at all. Has John Henry’s accountant heard about that rumor?

  203. Carl December 29th, 2009 at 2:48 pm

    Bay is consistent. He knows the NL. Great singing for the Mets.

  204. Josh December 29th, 2009 at 2:48 pm

    A-Rod’s value in 3-4 years will be his records— which obviously mean nothing now.

    That’s why he got the money and 10 years. Yanks wanted to have the legit all-time HR record and all the records to be broke has a Yankee and all the money and worldwide attention that will come from that.

    All that is gone now. So if he stops hitting HRs at the pace he is, then his contract is going to be a huge albatross.

  205. Yankee Trader December 29th, 2009 at 2:49 pm

    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn.....cts/090206

    Attached list of some pretty bad contract deals that didn’t pan out.

    If I remember Mo Vaughn, is still on the Mets payroll.

  206. E-Rod December 29th, 2009 at 2:49 pm

    “Sherman says 4 yrs for $66M with easy vesting for a 5th year.”

    Bidding against themselves to get a player who didn’t want to play for them?

    Classic.

  207. Frank December 29th, 2009 at 2:50 pm

    “Sherman says 4 yrs for $66M with easy vesting for a 5th year.”

    $16.5 per year and an easy vesting, eh? Says two things:

    1) The Mets were feeling desperate and bent on the 5th year

    2) The absolute bare minimum Holliday signs for is $16,500,001 per season.

  208. Jay December 29th, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    Boras is now clinging to Boston realizing they still need a big bat and how perfect a fit Holliday is…. and the fact that they were willing to extend their budget for Bay… so perhaps, they would do the same for Holliday.

    Unlikely, but that is probably what Boras is clinging to. If not, he should take STL’s offer any day now.

  209. ray (sox fan) December 29th, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    Betsy -high on pie
    December 29th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
    Bay to Mets for 4 years…….He clearly didn’t want to go there, but no one was interested. To me, that’s unbelievable that he and Holliday would basically garner no interest from any team except 1
    ——————————————————

    Hi Betsy. There were quite a few reports that Boston offered Bay a four year 60 million dollar contract which I think showed a genuine interest.

    One can argue whether or not the offer represented a fair market value, but I don’t think 15 million a year is chump change. Just my opinion.

    Interesting how all this will affect what happens to Holliday.

  210. Yankee Trader December 29th, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    It’ll take quite a bit more than that to get Rivera. In reality they really want to unload Gary Matthews, another one of those bad contracts, to go along with Kevin Brown, Mike Hampton, Steve Avery.
    —————————————————–

    Not Avery- Denny Nagle.

  211. Betsy -high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    LOL that’s true, CB. It’s not like this is a shock – Bay didn’t have any other offers. The Mets had to do something and Bay is a very good player.

  212. tex's friend December 29th, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    ARod still hits power and for average and is above average at 3B. Some of you need to relax and enjoy year by year. Let Cashman worry about 2016.

  213. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 29th, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    Jason Bay could have went home to Seattle, and been happy.

    instead he will be sad, with the Mets.

    money isn’t everything. REEL 2 REEL

  214. CB December 29th, 2009 at 2:54 pm

    “2) The absolute bare minimum Holliday signs for is $16,500,001 per season.”

    Mets caving on that 5th year (if in fact the option is easily vested) makes it easier for Holliday to get his 9 figure deal now.

    He’s going to get 6yrs at 17M. 6th year might be a vesting year but he’s going to get at least one more year than Bay got.

  215. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 29th, 2009 at 2:54 pm

    Not Avery- Denny Nagle
    ——————————-

    chooooooooooo chooooooooooooooooooo!!!

  216. Yankee Trader December 29th, 2009 at 2:54 pm

    Maybe the Mets will break the bank and sign Holliday too!!
    LOL!

  217. ray (sox fan) December 29th, 2009 at 2:54 pm

    “Great singing for the Mets.”
    ————————————————

    Maybe the Mets can sing better than they play baseball?

    Just kidding. :)

  218. tex's friend December 29th, 2009 at 2:54 pm

    anyone hearing the rumors that the Red Sox are trading Bucholz and Ellisbury, for AGonzo, then possibly signing Holliday??

    ___

    If SD makes that deal, they might as well contract the team. AG is worth more than a starter who can only beat the orioles and blue jays, and a ‘good’ CF who is fast with ‘decent’ average.

  219. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 29th, 2009 at 2:56 pm

    “Maybe the Mets can sing better than they play baseball?”
    ———————————————————-
    too easy. : )

  220. Doreen December 29th, 2009 at 2:57 pm

    Trying to catch up without reading everything. Did the Mets sign Bay?

  221. Betsy -high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    Hey Ray

    That’s true – I’d forgotten about the Sox offer. I guess I’m thinking in terms of multiple teams being interested, with something of a bidding war attached to it.

    If Boras is looking for Tex $$ for Holliday, it’s just not happening. Either it’s the economy or people are just not enamored of Holliday -whatever it is, either they just keep waiting until the Cards pull the offer (which won’t happen) or they take what they can get.

  222. Phil the Thrill December 29th, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    We can’t let the Sox have Holliday.

  223. pat December 29th, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    Doreen

    Seems they have agreed to terms but nothing will be finalized until early next week when physicals are complete.

  224. Betsy -high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 3:01 pm

    CB, no one else besides St. Louis has made an offer to Holliday. The only other team I can see jumping in now at this point is perhaps the Sox. If they don’t, why would the Cards up their offer?

  225. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 3:01 pm

    SD isn’t trading Gonzalez now.

  226. tampayank December 29th, 2009 at 3:02 pm

    Mets to sign Jason Bay. I think it’s a good signing for them..4 years 16.5 mil

    http://www.metsblog.com/2009/1.....-per-wfan/

  227. bru December 29th, 2009 at 3:03 pm

    Jermaine Dye headed to Yanks’ left field?
    By Mark J. Miller

    With Johnny Damon(notes) headed elsewhere, the Yankees still have an outfield hole to fill and the rumor right now is that it could come in the form of Jermaine Dye(notes), according to River Avenue Blues.

    The 35-year-old Dye should be fairly inexpensive, considering that he just had a horrendous year, batting .250. However, he did hammer 27 home runs and 19 doubles. The Yanks don’t usually go to the cutout bin to look for stuff, but there is apparently a cutoff point to the purse strings that GM Brian Cashman is coming close to.

    The two-time All-Star was the World Series MVP when the Chicago White Sox took home the whole tamale back in 2005. He’s played for three other teams: the Atlanta Braves, Kansas City Royals, and Oakland Athletics.

    Source: River Avenue Blues

  228. dee December 29th, 2009 at 3:03 pm

    Can we just sign Damon again and get it over with? I hope he comes crawling back. I could deal with him in LF for one more year.

  229. Frank December 29th, 2009 at 3:03 pm

    “SD isn’t trading Gonzalez now.”

    No they aren’t. But this time in July, he’s quite likely playing for another team.

  230. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 29th, 2009 at 3:04 pm

    tampayank:

    I don’t. Matt Holliday would have been a good signing. Jason Bay is an irrelevant signing. Not what they need

  231. Betsy -high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 3:05 pm

    I don’t believe in making moves just to block the Sox……the Yankees don’t want Holliday, it’s clear. They shouldn’t cave even if the Sox do jump in.

  232. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 3:05 pm

    ARod still hits power and for average and is above average at 3B. Some of you need to relax and enjoy year by year. Let Cashman worry about 2016.

    =======

    Now that “Arod is a choker in the playoffs” arguement is done with. What else is there?

  233. CB December 29th, 2009 at 3:06 pm

    Betsy,

    Holliday can point to the Bay contract as a precedent for what the market value is for a LF at this time.

    St. Louis had no interest in Bay. They clearly see Holliday as the better player.

    Bay’s contract sounds like it’s effectively a 5 year deal worth upwards of 82M.

    Holliday is likely going to get more than that – he’s simply the better player.

  234. Doreen December 29th, 2009 at 3:06 pm

    pat -

    Thanks!

  235. Laura December 29th, 2009 at 3:06 pm

    “Alex’s contract was the dumbest one known to man.”

    Did you think that when Alex hit the HR off Nathan in the ALDS to tie the game? Or when he hit the blast off of Fuentes in the ALCS? How about when he hit the game winning hit off of Lidge in Game 4?

  236. Frank December 29th, 2009 at 3:07 pm

    “CB, no one else besides St. Louis has made an offer to Holliday. The only other team I can see jumping in now at this point is perhaps the Sox”

    Boston did offer Holliday 5/$82.5. He passed.

    Don’t think 5 and $82.5 will do it anymore. That’s basically what Bay will get from the Mets with the easily triggered 5th year option.

  237. GeorgeInJax December 29th, 2009 at 3:07 pm

    “It is more than a little chilling that Alex’s contract still has 8 years to run and he will be 35 this season.”
    __________________________________________________________

    I think he’ll still be a productive hitter at the end of his deal, but he’ll be one really expensive DH.
    I can’t see more than 4-5 good yrs at 3rd before a big fielding decline.

  238. Phil the Thrill December 29th, 2009 at 3:08 pm

    ARod’s gonna be more popular than ever going forward.

  239. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 29th, 2009 at 3:09 pm

    Bru-

    No chance according to mlbtraderumors

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....lders.html

  240. Betsy -high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 3:10 pm

    CB, then the Cards will be bidding against themselves if no one else jumps in? I mean, Holliday is not going to sit out the season. Boras needs another team to get involved.

  241. tex's friend December 29th, 2009 at 3:11 pm

    No they aren’t. But this time in July, he’s quite likely playing for another team.

    No doubt he will eventually be traded to boston in one of those boston type deals where they give up almost nothing to get a superstar player, like the V-Mart deal.

  242. jpb1973 December 29th, 2009 at 3:11 pm

    “SD isn’t trading Gonzalez now.”

    No they aren’t. But this time in July, he’s quite likely playing for another team.

    ——————————————————

    Frank,

    Gonzalez is signed (at a low salary) for the next two seasons. Why would the Padres trade him in July 2010? They are better off holding out until July 2011 and trading him then. The reality is that, for the next year and a half, he’s worth more to them than anything another team can give them in a trade.

  243. CB December 29th, 2009 at 3:12 pm

    “then the Cards will be bidding against themselves if no one else jumps in? I mean, Holliday is not going to sit out the season. Boras needs another team to get involved.”

    Bay had no other serious suitors. He just kept dragging things out and got a 5th year out of it.

    Holliday will do the same with the cards.

  244. tampayank December 29th, 2009 at 3:12 pm

    it’s only 335 down the left field line at Citi Field…I think Bay can still put up numbers there by having Wright bat in front of him and Beltran behind him….defensively might be an issue….I just don’t buy the Holliday hype, Bay has shown to be clutch, Holliday not so much …Holliday is the better player but not worth that much more in my opinion

  245. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 3:12 pm

    “ARod still hits power and for average and is above average at 3B. Some of you need to relax and enjoy year by year. Let Cashman worry about 2016.”

    Thanks for appointing yourself the arbiter what’s valid to discuss.

  246. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    “Did you think that when Alex hit the HR off Nathan in the ALDS to tie the game? Or when he hit the blast off of Fuentes in the ALCS? How about when he hit the game winning hit off of Lidge in Game 4?”

    Is your point that you know that the Yankees couldn’t have signed him for less?

  247. pat December 29th, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    “no one else besides St. Louis has made an offer to Holliday.”

    More accurately, it hasn’t been reported that anyone has made an offer to Holliday other than St. Louis.

    It wasn’t reported that the Yanks had made an offer to Tex last year either though. Cashman might not be the only stealth GM out there. :wink:

  248. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Johnny Back!!! December 29th, 2009 at 3:15 pm

    tampayank
    December 29th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
    it’s only 335 down the left field line at Citi Field…I think Bay can still put up numbers there by having Wright bat in front of him and Beltran behind him….defensively might be an issue….I just don’t buy the Holliday hype, Bay has shown to be clutch, Holliday not so much …Holliday is the better player but not worth that much more in my opinion

    ************

    Hmmm- is being clutch really necessary to be a Met?

  249. Doreen December 29th, 2009 at 3:15 pm

    CB -

    I don’t think there’s any way the Yankees would give Holliday 5 years, do you?

  250. Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2009 at 3:15 pm

    I think I’d rather the Yanks sign Johnny Gomes than Dye.

  251. CB December 29th, 2009 at 3:17 pm

    Doreen,

    I think they would have given him 5 yrs. I don’t think they will give him 6 (even if the 6th year is a vesting option).

  252. Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2009 at 3:17 pm

    CB-

    Have you seen any team projections, other than RLYB’s Yankee CAIRO projections, yet?

  253. Frank December 29th, 2009 at 3:18 pm

    “Gonzalez is signed (at a low salary) for the next two seasons. Why would the Padres trade him in July 2010?”

    It would represent the best opportunity to make a killing on their return. A contending team will likely offer up a lot more in terms of prospects for a year and a half of Gonzalez (and thus the chance to have him impact TWO pennant races) than a year or less. Gonzalez will be a free agent well in advance of the point in time where the Padres will be competitive. Not trading him at a point where his value will be highest would be irresponsible.

  254. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 3:18 pm

    Bay had no other serious suitors. He just kept dragging things out and got a 5th year out of it.

    ========

    CB,
    Im hoping that with whats transpired this year. Bay dragging his feat and Holliday holding out(assuming he now gets more than the original offer). We dont see this stuff happening year after year. Where we still dont know who’s going where till training camp opens. I miss the early december all the big whales signing already(big whale isnt describing C.C. btw. He’s a horse with a heart of a lion.).

  255. Betsy -high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 3:19 pm

    Probably so, CB….in any case, it looks like Holliday to the Cards is “in the cards” so to speak.

  256. tex's friend December 29th, 2009 at 3:20 pm

    Thanks for appointing yourself the arbiter what’s valid to discuss

    ___

    As oppposed to the one who magically knows that arod will definitely break down in 3-4 years?

  257. Doreen December 29th, 2009 at 3:20 pm

    CB -

    So you think whoever gets Holliday is going to have to give 6 years?

    It sure stinks that Bay ends up getting more than he’s probably worth in this market because the Mets are desperate and the Red Sox are – what? Cheap? Hesitant? Stupid????

  258. Jerkface December 29th, 2009 at 3:20 pm

    How has Bay shown to be ‘clutch’, but Holliday not?

  259. tampayank December 29th, 2009 at 3:20 pm

    “Erica – always OPPC – Bring Johnny Back!!! December 29th, 2009 at 3:15 pm

    tampayank
    December 29th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
    it’s only 335 down the left field line at Citi Field…I think Bay can still put up numbers there by having Wright bat in front of him and Beltran behind him….defensively might be an issue….I just don’t buy the Holliday hype, Bay has shown to be clutch, Holliday not so much …Holliday is the better player but not worth that much more in my opinion

    ************

    Hmmm- is being clutch really necessary to be a Met?”

    just talking baseball :) and I’m happy he’s not on the Red Sox anymore, he was a tough out against the Yanks

  260. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 3:21 pm

    “It would represent the best opportunity to make a killing on their return. ”

    Cite an example of what you believe a killing would be that would give the Padres as much in production for the marginal dollars, attendance boots, and goodwill with the fans.

    From my perspective, such a package does not exist.

  261. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 3:21 pm

    I think I’d rather the Yanks sign Johnny Gomes than Dye.

    ========

    I say if we’re going to sign Gomes. Sign Duncan as well and have them duke it out under the Oneil banner. Make it a pay per view so we get most of the wasted money we spent on them back.

  262. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 3:22 pm

    edit: attendance boosts.

  263. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 29th, 2009 at 3:23 pm

    “Hmmm- is being clutch really necessary to be a Met?”
    ——————————————————-

    it used to be. Lately, not so much

  264. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 3:23 pm

    “As oppposed to the one who magically knows that arod will definitely break down in 3-4 years?”

    Where did I say that?

    I said given him 10 years was dumb because it pays him until he is 43.

    Why was it reasonable to take such a risk?

  265. Jerkface December 29th, 2009 at 3:24 pm

    The Padres think they can contend in the West, because its a weak division where a team can run away with it if everything comes together. Keeping Gonzalez increases their chance of being a surprise team because the home parks for many of the AL West teams and the offenses fielded allow for mediocore pitching to shine, and good pitching to dominate.

    I don’t think they trade A-gon.

  266. tex's friend December 29th, 2009 at 3:25 pm

    Because that’s what he was asking and at the time it was important to get him back. Sure it isnt ideal to pay him until he is 43, but be prepared that they may be doing that with jeter and rivera too.

  267. jpb1973 December 29th, 2009 at 3:25 pm

    “Gonzalez is signed (at a low salary) for the next two seasons. Why would the Padres trade him in July 2010?”

    It would represent the best opportunity to make a killing on their return. A contending team will likely offer up a lot more in terms of prospects for a year and a half of Gonzalez (and thus the chance to have him impact TWO pennant races) than a year or less. Gonzalez will be a free agent well in advance of the point in time where the Padres will be competitive. Not trading him at a point where his value will be highest would be irresponsible.

    ——————————————————-

    Frank,

    You don’t understand…the Padres don’t WANT to be competitive. They can make money by collective revenuee sharing $$$, keeping their salary low and maintaining one or two players that the fans like. In Adrian Gonzalez case, he is a native of San Diego and is responsible for many of those fans who do attend games. It would be a public realtions nightmare in that town if they let him go while he is still “cheap”.

    Eventually, Adrian Gonzalez will pursue free agency and the Padres will bring up another guy from their minor league system to take his place. That young player will have six years before becoming arbitration eligible. They don’t need to take on guys like Ellsbury, Buchholz and anyone else who is halfway down the road to arbitration when they can bring up someone from the minors..

  268. Nick D. December 29th, 2009 at 3:26 pm

    Finally Bay signs!!!!!

    Now lets see how the dominos fall!

  269. CB December 29th, 2009 at 3:28 pm

    “Have you seen any team projections, other than RLYB’s Yankee CAIRO projections, yet?”

    Wave,

    Not true team projections. ZIPS and CHONE projections are available for 2010. They are however oriented around projections for individual players more than they are for the team.

    You can nonetheless use them to make team estimates. It’s mostly an issue of how does one allocate playing time (which is one of the more difficult things to do in a projection and one of the reasons why I like CAIRO as it helps if the analyst is familiar with the team being projected).

    For example, CHONE has Reegie Corona projected as playing 128 games. Juan Miranda playing 130 games – that’s done to give a sense of what the individual projection would be.

    If you throw those out and reallocate playing time in a more realistic fashion you can come up with an estimate.

    Most team based projections will wait until rosters are more settled.

  270. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 29th, 2009 at 3:30 pm

    are Utz cheddar & sour cream chips, the best potatoe chip ever?

  271. tampayank December 29th, 2009 at 3:31 pm

    The Bay deal is 4 years not 5

  272. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 3:31 pm

    “Because that’s what he was asking and at the time it was important to get him back. Sure it isnt ideal to pay him until he is 43, but be prepared that they may be doing that with jeter and rivera too.”

    So you believe that every offer has to be accepted? There is such a thing as negotiations and a counteroffer.

    The Yankees had a lot of leverage. I don’t believe that there was another team that would have come close to matching that deal.

    And if the story is to believed, Alex came back to them, which should have weakened his leverage.

    Jeter and Mo will get how many years?

  273. CB December 29th, 2009 at 3:31 pm

    Doreen,

    Yes I think he’ll get at least 6 years.

  274. Dave K December 29th, 2009 at 3:31 pm

    Boras was probably hoping that Bay signed with Boston so that he could be sure to get the Yankees more involved in the Holliday bidding.

    He’ll do his best to get the Yankees and the Red Sox believing that the other one is in on Holliday, but I can’t see him ending up anywhere other than St. Louis.

    It will be interesting to see what happens with the various Boras clients still out there. I think Damon, Beltre, and Holliday will all get significantly less than Boras probably promised them.

  275. Terry from NH December 29th, 2009 at 3:32 pm

    BAY 4 years for 66 million..

  276. Nick D. December 29th, 2009 at 3:32 pm

    BAY 4 years for 66 million..

    —-

    Apparently with a vesting 5th year.

  277. Dave K December 29th, 2009 at 3:33 pm

    CB:

    I remember when the Yankees traded for Vasquez, you said that in your opinion the Yankees chances of signing Holliday were reduced to 5% from 20%.

    In your opinion, does Bay’s contract further reduce those chances?

  278. mick December 29th, 2009 at 3:33 pm

    Frank December 29th, 2009 at 2:50 pm

    “Sherman says 4 yrs for $66M with easy vesting for a 5th year.”

    $16.5 per year and an easy vesting, eh? Says two things:

    1) The Mets were feeling desperate and bent on the 5th year

    2) The absolute bare minimum Holliday signs for is $16,500,001 per season.
    ==========================================
    What it means is Holliday ain’t coming here. What the delay is I don’t know, just sign up with Cards. Cash has bigger fish to fry next year, thinking in advance, just as he did with CC, AJ and Tex. That worked out ok, let’s go with the budget.

  279. mick December 29th, 2009 at 3:35 pm

    Perhaps, the mystery team is Boston.

  280. GeorgeInJax December 29th, 2009 at 3:35 pm

    Re: As oppposed to the one who magically knows that arod will definitely break down in 3-4 years?
    ———————————————-
    Tex’s Friend:

    I’m the one who made the comment of A-Rod declining at the end of his deal Defensively, I still think he will be a productive hitter (DH)throughout.

    As a fan, I hope that I am dead wrong, but I don’t see A-rod playing 3rd much past 40.

  281. CB December 29th, 2009 at 3:35 pm

    “The Bay deal is 4 years not 5″

    That’s what the mets want out in the press and what they want their fans to think.

    But if it’s an option that does in fact easily vest then its effectively a 5 year deal.

    When Magglio Ordonez signed it was reported to be a 5 year deal. He’s now in the 6th year of the contract because the option had a guaranteed vest with criteria that weren’t real difficult to meet.

  282. Phil the Thrill December 29th, 2009 at 3:36 pm

    the key factor in this is that the Sox will only get a sandwich pick and not another 1.

  283. Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2009 at 3:36 pm

    Thanks, CB. The reason I ask is that without seeing what the Sox projections are I can’t decide how much I really would have liked to get Holliday. In fact, I can’t decide if I would rather have had Mike Cameron than Javier Vazquez, even.

    RLYB has Vazquez projected to 4.9 WAR next year. I don’t doubt SG’s math, but I am uncomfortable with the 3.50 ERA projection. And if it’s worse than that, then substituting a guy like Cameron in for Gardner could close the gap in projected wins.

    Oh well, I’ve been reduced to rooting for the Yanks to sign johnny Gomes…

  284. CB December 29th, 2009 at 3:37 pm

    Dave,

    I think this makes it less likely but these probabilities are just guesstimates. There’s no real way to say it’s a 3% chance vs. 5% although the conditional probability has gone down.

    I’d still say it’s around 5% just as an estimate.

  285. tampayank December 29th, 2009 at 3:38 pm

    “mick December 29th, 2009 at 3:33 pm

    Frank December 29th, 2009 at 2:50 pm

    “Sherman says 4 yrs for $66M with easy vesting for a 5th year.”

    $16.5 per year and an easy vesting, eh? Says two things:

    1) The Mets were feeling desperate and bent on the 5th year

    2) The absolute bare minimum Holliday signs for is $16,500,001 per season.
    ==========================================
    What it means is Holliday ain’t coming here. What the delay is I don’t know, just sign up with Cards. Cash has bigger fish to fry next year, thinking in advance, just as he did with CC, AJ and Tex. That worked out ok, let’s go with the budget.”

    I heard it’s a backloaded deal where he only gets $10 mil the first year than goes up to 19.5 mil the 4th year..maybe to free up a little more money for a few small signings this season

  286. mick December 29th, 2009 at 3:38 pm

    I would love to beat the RS with Holliday as their LF. All the more joy in beating them. It comes down to pitching and we still have that over them, contrary to popular belief.

  287. Laura December 29th, 2009 at 3:38 pm

    “Is your point that you know that the Yankees couldn’t have signed him for less?”

    The Yankees could have signed him for less; anything slightly more than the Angels offer would have gotten the job done.

  288. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 3:39 pm

    “The Yankees could have signed him for less; anything slightly more than the Angels offer would have gotten the job done.”

    What was the Angels’ offer?

  289. stuckey December 29th, 2009 at 3:40 pm

    Give Alex Rodriquez some credit. He willingly gave up SS to come here, and he isn’t going to set any all-time 3B records either.

    He MIGHT be a candidate to move to the outfield someday, maybe sooner than some might think.

  290. Frank December 29th, 2009 at 3:40 pm

    “Cite an example of what you believe a killing would be that would give the Padres as much in production for the marginal dollars, attendance boots, and goodwill with the fans”

    Attedance boost? Padres had their worst attendance since 1995 last year. There off 32% off of where they were a mere three seasons ago. Losing neither sells nor engenders goodwill with the fan base. Certainly they can go on losing with Gonzalez for a couple more years, but after that, someone will being paying him Teixeira money and it’s not going to be the Padres.

    So, do the Padres delay their obvious need to rebuild by 2 years to appease the 23,000 hearty souls who show up to see them win 65-70 games with Gonzalez, or do they start it most of two years earlier, with a nice package of prospects?

    To put it closer to home, Don Mattingly, on average, played before less than 28,000 fans per game over his Yankee Stadium career. You recall what was missing in those years?

  291. Bronx Jeers December 29th, 2009 at 3:41 pm

    Good for Bay and for the Mets. They need each other.

    What does Bay care how LF plays for him. This is his first and last big contract so he might as well get every cent he can.

  292. Nick D. December 29th, 2009 at 3:41 pm

    I gotta be honest…I’m just glad SOMETHING happened.

    The Hot Stove has been ice cold lately.

    I hope this gets dominoes falling.

    Action around the league whether it involves the Yankees or not is at least exciting.

  293. Dave K December 29th, 2009 at 3:42 pm

    From an expected win prospective, I am curious how the Red Sox and Yankees would stack up if the Red Sox were to get rid of Ellsbury and move Cameron to center and sign Matt Holliday. And the Yankees were to stand pat or sign a Reed Johnson type.

    Obviously it would be a huge surprise for the Red Sox to sign Holliday but it would certainly be a smart move for them, if they could afford it.

  294. tex's friend December 29th, 2009 at 3:43 pm

    arod will likely not play third much past 40, but all that means is we have a pretty good DH those last 3 seasons.

  295. pat December 29th, 2009 at 3:44 pm

    “What was the Angels’ offer?”

    AH….the question that will never be answered.

    Anyone who says they know whether there would have, may have been or wasn’t another offer is writing fiction because it never got to that point.

  296. CB December 29th, 2009 at 3:44 pm

    Wave,

    It does make it difficult. But you can come up with a good estimate from CHONE.

    Just pick the 21 guys most likely to be on the Yanks and Sox opening roster and count up their WAR. Set the 4 players on the bench for each at replacement or maybe +1 (just call the benches even for now).

    That would be a good start.

    Or email SG and ask for a Sox projection. I could see him doing that and he probably is working on it already.

    I do understand what you are saying about pitching vs. LF. It’s a difficult trade off to evaluate. On the whole, I get the sense that the yankees really want to minimize risk inside of their rotation now. That’s been a big theme the past two off seasons.

    And I’d guess the team didn’t like what they’d heard on Holliday and moved on to Vazquez.

  297. fark it December 29th, 2009 at 3:45 pm

    I, for one, am psyched at the prospect of no longer seeing Bay in a Red Sox uniform. Check out his ’09 #s vs. the Yanks:

    51 ABs

    .392 BA

    .475 OBP

    1.161 OPS

    the Yanks simply could not get him out. vaya con Dios, buddy.

  298. DaSaint007 December 29th, 2009 at 3:45 pm

    With Bay now reportedly agreeing to a contract with the Mets, I’d love to see boston sign Holliday, but I truly think that he has a comfort level with NL pitchers and parks that he already knows quite well. That being the case, I think he signs with St. Louis.

    Would I like to see him in boston so that we can beat him/them? Sure. But not likely. Which makes me believe that if not, then boston has to pull the trigger on a trade either with San Diego or Detroit for Gonzalez or Cabrerra.

  299. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 3:45 pm

    “Attedance boost? Padres had their worst attendance since 1995 last year. There off 32% off of where they were a mere three seasons ago. Losing neither sells nor engenders goodwill with the fan base. Certainly they can go on losing with Gonzalez for a couple more years, but after that, someone will being paying him Teixeira money and it’s not going to be the Padres.
    So, do the Padres delay their obvious need to rebuild by 2 years to appease the 23,000 hearty souls who show up to see them win 65-70 games with Gonzalez, or do they start it most of two years earlier, with a nice package of prospects?”

    My bad, I’ll rephrase: A package that won’t cost them in attendance having lost their most popular player and a local hero of sorts.

    Beyond that, I think you’re mistaken. Gonzalez is precisely the kind of relatively low wage, high production player that the franchise needs to keep, or failing that, fold.

    “To put it closer to home, Don Mattingly, on average, played before less than 28,000 fans per game over his Yankee Stadium career. You recall what was missing in those years?”

    A well run organization, because George was insane in the ’80s.

  300. Nick D. December 29th, 2009 at 3:46 pm

    So I guess Holliday has a lot more bargaining power now…no?

    With Derosa and Bay off the market it seems like any bidders for Holliday just lost arguably the two biggest back up plans.

    The Cards front office is probably squirming right now wondering whether to hold steady and maybe give Matt a deadline or make their offer a bit more tasty.

    Tough calls.

  301. GeorgeInJax December 29th, 2009 at 3:46 pm

    stuckey
    December 29th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
    Give Alex Rodriquez some credit. He willingly gave up SS to come here, and he isn’t going to set any all-time 3B records either.
    He MIGHT be a candidate to move to the outfield someday, maybe sooner than some might think.
    _____________________________________________________

    Don’t take it the wrong way, I like A-Rod, he’s our 3B & I root for him.

    If the guy isn’t going to play 3rd, he certainly isn’t going to the outfield. He’s too valuable of a hitter to risk him out there with a potential hip problem.

    I just said that in all likelihood he will be a DH at the end of his deal.

    Giving up playing SS ended up being a shrewd move as he can play longer at 3rd.

  302. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 3:47 pm

    “AH….the question that will never be answered.”

    I think the Yankees bid against themselves.

  303. Frank December 29th, 2009 at 3:49 pm

    “the key factor in this is that the Sox will only get a sandwich pick and not another 1.”

    They get the Mets 2nd rounder with the sandwich pick instead. I’m sure Boston was hoping for Seattle (#18 I believe) to grab Bay.

  304. Betsy -high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 3:50 pm

    I would never root for the Sox to sign a good player that would improve them. Being the WS champs is enough and, as far as beating the Sox, if we beat them then that’s enough, no matter who’s on their team. They’re always a tough out…..

  305. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 3:50 pm

    CB and others. What do you think about signing Ankeil for left. I know his offensive numbers werent good. But being a left handed hitter in Y.S. is heaven. I would think his power numbers would increase dramatically with the field and batters around him. Hows his defense? Thoughts?

  306. CB December 29th, 2009 at 3:50 pm

    “Oh well, I’ve been reduced to rooting for the Yanks to sign johnny Gomes…”

    They are going to get another LF. There are far more players in LF than there are open jobs right now.

    I think the yankees would be very attractive to Nady when all is said and done. He’s only going to get a 1 year deal. Hitting in that deep line up would help him a great deal.

    Also, I can’t see any real landing spots for Damon either. Where is he going to go? I don’t think he can be ruled out entirely as an option to come back.

  307. Chad Jennings December 29th, 2009 at 3:50 pm

    I just put up a new post.

  308. mick December 29th, 2009 at 3:52 pm

    Betsy -high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 3:50 pm

    I would never root for the Sox to sign a good player that would improve them.
    ========================betsy don’t be disappointed if they do

  309. pat December 29th, 2009 at 3:54 pm

    Rich in NJ

    Others think the same but thinking and knowing are 2 different things.

    Lucchino thought Boras didn’t have anyone who would go more than $170 for Tex. How did that work out for them?

  310. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 3:54 pm

    If the guy isn’t going to play 3rd, he certainly isn’t going to the outfield. He’s too valuable of a hitter to risk him out there with a potential hip problem.

    ========

    I thought you were going to say “he wasnt going to the outfield because he absolutely sucks at pop ups”. Thats what i would have said. Maybe he can play first once Tex’s contract is up.

  311. Frank December 29th, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    “Lucchino thought Boras didn’t have anyone who would go more than $170 for Tex. How did that work out for them?”

    He did know. He just knew too late. Boras was using Boston to get the Yankees up. Boston was dancing with them for a month before figuring it out that night in Texas.

  312. bru December 29th, 2009 at 4:12 pm

    i think for what holliday will cost it is a huge mistake not to sign him

    we will need at least 1 o.f. within the next few years maybe 2 & holliday is much better than cc(crawford) & can be used as a # 5 hitter wich cc can’t

    i don’t think we would get killed as much for signing him either because we are not overpaying & his value is higher than what he will get paid

    now if our plan is to not spend in the outfield because of money & concentrate on pitching first ok but if the choice is waiting til next year or holliday i grab holliday now because he is better & it will cost as much or more next year for a player not as good.

  313. bru December 29th, 2009 at 4:22 pm

    Phil the Thrill
    December 29th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
    the key factor in this is that the Sox will only get a sandwich pick and not another 1.

    ——————————————————–

    that is not what i read

    i read that they get a # 1 pick i think the 50th or so pick & a supp pick

  314. bru December 29th, 2009 at 4:30 pm

    fark it
    December 29th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
    I, for one, am psyched at the prospect of no longer seeing Bay in a Red Sox uniform. Check out his ‘09 #s vs. the Yanks:

    51 ABs

    .392 BA

    .475 OBP

    1.161 OPS

    the Yanks simply could not get him out. vaya con Dios, buddy.

    ———————————————————-

    if the rs sign holliday they are better than when they had bay & it puts us in a difficult position because there are no other big bats to counter with

    if we can get holliday for 17 million a year/5 yrs it is a steal

    i just don’t think next years fa outfielders will be a better choice or any cheaper

    the rs added 12.7 wins with their offseason additions we added 12.4 i believe

    holliday would add almost an additional 6 wins for the rs giving them over 18 wins added compared to our 12.4

  315. MH in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 6:23 pm

    Way to go Bruney! You can now have a beard and close games for a team that’s NEVER going to win the WS while you’re still alive. Way to think that one thru. I wouldn’t want to be on a team that has 27 championships and an excellent shot at winning their 28th this year either.

  316. Dave December 30th, 2009 at 3:26 am

    Brian Bruney is so irrelevant that 98% of the posts in his topic didn’t even talk about him. What a loser.


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