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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


If a tree falls in a forest…

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 29, 2009 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

If Jason Bay signs with the Mets, do the Yankees care?

All indications are that the Yankees were never in on Bay to begin with. Brian Cashman has said time and again that the Yankees are not going after another “big piece” this winter, and that would seem to eliminate both Bay and Matt Holliday. What’s more, Bay signed with a National League team. Granted, it’s a National League team the Yankees play six times, but it’s certainly better than Bay signing back with a team in the American League East.

Bay’s career line against the Yankees: .392/.475/.686 with three home runs and 13 RBI in 14 games.

Getting Bay out of Boston probably makes this move a win for the Yankees. If the Yankees heard this tree falling at all, it was a good sound.

Meanwhile, Boston is said to be going after Adrian Beltre, which could be an indication that they’re willing to simply eat the $12 million owed to Mike Lowell. After Boston’s attempt to trade Lowell to Texas fell apart earlier this month, it became unlikely that the Red Sox would be able to unload that contract.

One other impact of Bay’s signing could be a domino effect on the rest of the free agent corner outfielders. With Bay and Mark DeRosa now off the market, teams might start pushing harder — the Yankees included – to fill their corner outfield needs. Apparently Scott Boras is already trying to take advantage of that situation. You have to wonder if the Cardinals might ramp up their efforts to sign Holliday now that there aren’t many Plan Bs available.

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411 Responses to “If a tree falls in a forest…”

  1. Bret the Hitman December 29th, 2009 at 7:40 pm

    Cashman never replaced Matsui – WS MVP.

    Blasphemy.

    I don’t buy it.

    Not sold.

    Try again senor Cashman.

  2. Boston Dave - XXVII December 29th, 2009 at 7:40 pm

    Yanks are fine without Bay or Holliday.

  3. yankeeman0 December 29th, 2009 at 7:41 pm

    If Holliday goes back to STL as expected, where can Damon go? Maybe he comes back to the Yanks with tail btwn his legs and signs an Abreu like 1yr $5M deal?

  4. Boston Dave - XXVII December 29th, 2009 at 7:43 pm

    The last thing the Yanks need to do before the CBA and salary caps are discussed and additional harsher luxury tax penalties levied is infuriate the other owners by signing another mega contract.

    If the Yanks really needed him, fine. You do it anyway. But they don’t.

  5. Vincent December 29th, 2009 at 7:43 pm

    WS MVP could have been anyone. Let’s not get carried away.

  6. Bret the Hitman December 29th, 2009 at 7:43 pm

    Yanks had Matsui – a 5 hitter.

    He was never replaced.

    If at first you don’t succeed, try try again monfrere Cashman.

  7. Bret the Hitman December 29th, 2009 at 7:44 pm

    Who replaced Matsui as the 5 hitter?

    Nobody.

    Not sold.

  8. Pokey December 29th, 2009 at 7:44 pm

    We didn’t replace Wettland either, and that turned out ok.

    Just because someone won a WS MVP doesn’t mean we have to bring them back.

  9. Phil the Thrill December 29th, 2009 at 7:45 pm

    They can win several WS in a row with Holliday. They were willing to add budget for Halladay or Zambrano… LF is still a need.

  10. bru December 29th, 2009 at 7:46 pm

    jeter
    granderson
    johnson
    arod
    tex
    posada
    cano
    swisher
    gardner

    would this be a good lineup against righties???

  11. Pokey December 29th, 2009 at 7:47 pm

    Er, meant bring back, not replace.

    And despite the complaining about the Yankees spending, the other teams love it. Most of them would fold in a week without the tax or revenue sharing. Some of them are probably calling Cash right now begging him to sign more guys so they don’t have to worry about selling more tickets.

  12. Bret the Hitman December 29th, 2009 at 7:47 pm

    Matsui – so clutch – so consistent – so professional – so reliable…

    GONE.

    Replaced by

    WHO?

    Nobody.

    Cashman = liar liar pants on fire.

  13. Aardvark December 29th, 2009 at 7:48 pm

    I can still see BOS getting Gonzalez, even after signing Beltre.

    Just simply move Youk to left field, and move Cameron to CF and use Ellsbury as the centerpiece of the deal.

    Beltre would be a great signing, he will use that wall well and plays GG defense. Don’t think it takes them out of the running for Gonzo though.

  14. yankeeman0 December 29th, 2009 at 7:49 pm

    I agree…forget Holliday WE DONT NEED HIM. Keep the money and flexibility for 2011 free agent class.

  15. Bret the Hitman December 29th, 2009 at 7:49 pm

    Youk in LF is popcorn chugging material :lol:

  16. Phil the Thrill December 29th, 2009 at 7:50 pm

    The 2010 class is gonna keep getting smaller…

  17. Pokey December 29th, 2009 at 7:51 pm

    SD ain’t dealing AG, especially if Ellsbury is the “centerpiece” of the deal.

  18. Matt December 29th, 2009 at 7:52 pm

    Bret,

    It’s ok… not replacing Matsui does have it’s positives…

    1. We have Gardner and his grittiness and guttiness in the lineup everyday.

    2. A-Rod will always be on base because every team will pitch around him to face Jorge or Cano or whoever they put there.

    Maybe A-Rod can steal a couple of bases, or distract the pitcher enough to throw a wild pitch and he can get himself to 3rd base or steal home.

  19. Phil the Thrill December 29th, 2009 at 7:52 pm

    minor leaguers would be the centerpiece, not Ellsbury who would be the window dressing.

  20. Betsy - high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 7:53 pm

    They can win WS without Holliday. I think he makes a lot of sense, too, but there are plenty of good arguments to be made against the signing……….

  21. Pokey December 29th, 2009 at 7:53 pm

    Reliable? He hasn’t been healthy for a full season since, what, ’06?

    Lee isn’t going to sign an extension with the M’s, so that’s where the “Holiday” money should go.

  22. MaineYankee December 29th, 2009 at 7:53 pm

    Youk in LF makes Damon look above average. :lol:

  23. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 29th, 2009 at 7:53 pm

    “Im far from a Mets fan and trying to objective here. Folks knocking the Mets for signing Bay – do they remember who they ran out there last year? Murphy, Sheffield, Fernando Tatis, Angel Pagan, Corey Sullivan, Jeremy Reed. Im sure Bays numbers will be knocked down to 25/90 in Citi Field but it sure beats the mish mosh they had last year in LF”
    —————————————————————————-

    the point is Holliday would have been a much better signing. Better player, younger, athletic, etc. He is not what the Mets need. The Mets signing Bay, is like applying lipstick to a pig. Conversely, Holliday is the type of player you can rebuild a team around

  24. Betsy - high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 7:54 pm

    The reactions of other owners would not even be on the top 100 list of reasons not to sign Holliday

  25. jpb1973 December 29th, 2009 at 7:54 pm

    If Holliday goes back to STL as expected, where can Damon go? Maybe he comes back to the Yanks with tail btwn his legs and signs an Abreu like 1yr $5M deal?

    ——————————————————-

    If its a one year deal I would think that the Yankees would give Damon more than $5 million. They might be willing to go as high as $10 million for a one year deal. There’s no sense in embarassing Johnny Damon…and since its a one year deal the money won’t have any impact on next year’s budget. That is, they could still sign Carl Crawford after this season.

  26. Alex December 29th, 2009 at 7:54 pm

    “The 2010 class is gonna keep getting smaller…”

    Already has with Halladay. Mauer is sure to be next, and there is a good bet Crawford is off the market as well.

    Boston could also decide to lock up Beckett if he has a good 1st half, for about the same $$$ as Lackey.

    I’d say the only lock to hit FA is Cliff Lee considering his agent said he wants to test the market and Philly realized this and moved him because he wanted CC-type money.

  27. Bret the Hitman December 29th, 2009 at 7:54 pm

    Matt,

    That makes me want to…blow my brains out.

  28. Pokey December 29th, 2009 at 7:54 pm

    I can’t really see the wisdom in pitching around ARod to pitch to Robbie, unless that moves runners in scoring position.

  29. Y 27 December 29th, 2009 at 7:56 pm

    Pokey,

    Lee is definitely hitting the market. That is why Philadelphia even moved him, because his agent basically said he wants a Sabathia type contract.

    I suspect the money from Andy/Javy will go to him.

  30. jpb1973 December 29th, 2009 at 7:58 pm

    They can win several WS in a row with Holliday. They were willing to add budget for Halladay or Zambrano… LF is still a need.

    ———————————————————

    Pitching and defense wins games/championships. They Yankees have plenty of sluggers right now. If they need a poor-fielding hitter they can find one at the trade deadline for a whole lot less money (and years) than Holliday.

  31. Pokey December 29th, 2009 at 7:58 pm

    Lee wanted to stay though. Just a dumb move by the Phillies to not even attempt to negotiate with him.

  32. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 7:59 pm

    Answer me this. If you had the chance to go to the World Series for the next 2 or 3 years and more than likely win it. Wouldnt the profits payback the amount of money it would cost to land him? Let me ask in a different way.

    Does not making the series make you more money than having Holliday and winning the W.S.? Because given with what iv read. He gives us an extra 5 or 6 wins which puts us in a class of our own. Can you say 118 wins?

  33. Earl December 29th, 2009 at 7:59 pm

    It’s in the Yanks’ best interest not to upset the apple cart and tick off the owners by spending even more money, coming off a WS win.

    As it is, the rest of the league was mortified. Numerous owners spoke out about the need for greater revenue sharing and a cap.

    If the Yanks keep spending like drunken sailors, rules will be put in place to make sure it sting even more (i.e. more Yankee tax).

    Holliday is not needed and we don’t need to tick off baseball even more. Let’s quietly enjoy our championship and continue to shed payroll and turn the roster over and develop the farm so we don’t need to be in a position to spend spend spend every year.

  34. bru December 29th, 2009 at 8:00 pm

    all in all cashman did a great job

    we signed nj & cg at half the cost of damon & matsui getting younger & better defensively plus added vasquez

    i think it is withdrawals from signing the huge player & holliday feels like the big player that erases any doubts

    i dont necessarily think we need him but we do not know for sure if we have enough as is the case for every team every year

    we have a great team

    i remember when we signed tex,cc,burnett it was euphoric because it was 3 massive players that was more than enough

    how could we possibly ask for more??

    add pettitte too that

  35. yankeeman0 December 29th, 2009 at 8:02 pm

    If Holliday goes back to STL as expected, where can Damon go? Maybe he comes back to the Yanks with tail btwn his legs and signs an Abreu like 1yr $5M deal?

    ——————————————————-

    If its a one year deal I would think that the Yankees would give Damon more than $5 million. They might be willing to go as high as $10 million for a one year deal. There’s no sense in embarassing Johnny Damon…and since its a one year deal the money won’t have any impact on next year’s budget. That is, they could still sign Carl Crawford after this season.

    ———————————————
    I hear u but that’s what Abreu signed for last yr (granted he signed that with another team and not the team he left), but really what are his other options? Who needs a LF and is willing to pay more than $5M? He is a poor defensive OF, so if we look at AL teams the only other places I can see Damon going are to Sea or I guess Texas since they will lose Byrd (possibly slide Hamilton to CF). I don’t think they go to $10M b/c that would put them past last years payroll number, $5M would at least keep Yanks near that number.

  36. Nick in SF December 29th, 2009 at 8:02 pm

    Mainly, signing Holliday would take away the flexible option of signing or not signing Crawford a year later — if he’s available.

    Signing Holliday might also limit the flexibility of whether or not to have another parade in October 2010. ;)

  37. RT December 29th, 2009 at 8:02 pm

    S.o.S.

    Your question(s) confuse the hell out of me lol, but I’ll say this— we have an opportunity to lap the field, let’s do it. Let’s make ourselves even greater favorites and give ourselves an even better chance to notch a few more rings in the next 5 years.

    Our revenues were exceeded by nearly 100 million, by even the most optimistic projections for playoff money. That should motivate Hal even more to go all out. Imagining reeling in that kind of money again?

  38. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 8:02 pm

    Youk in LF is popcorn chugging material

    ========

    lol. I wonder if someone like Youk thats for sure been hit with the UGLY stick, gets hit once again with it. Would it do a reverse effect?

  39. EdWhitson December 29th, 2009 at 8:03 pm

    St. Louis is bidding against themselves at this point. They should treat Boras, like Cash did last year with Tex. How long has their offer been out there ? Have some pride St. Louis!

  40. OldYanksFan December 29th, 2009 at 8:04 pm

    Posada had a slightly higher OPS then Matsui and Cano and Swisher had an OPS within 7 points. I think we can find a #5 hitter somewhere.

  41. jpb1973 December 29th, 2009 at 8:05 pm

    Answer me this. If you had the chance to go to the World Series for the next 2 or 3 years and more than likely win it. Wouldnt the profits payback the amount of money it would cost to land him? Let me ask in a different way.

    Does not making the series make you more money than having Holliday and winning the W.S.? Because given with what iv read. He gives us an extra 5 or 6 wins which puts us in a class of our own. Can you say 118 wins?

    ——————————————————-

    Not if you have to sacrifice pitching or defense to pay Holliday. I’m not sure that Holliday would give the Yankees an exptra 5-6 wins per year. He definately helped St. Louis last year because their lineup was weak (except for Pujols). The Yankees, on the other hand, have one of the best hitting lineups in the game…I simply don’t see where Holliday would have as big an impact as he did in St. Louis.

  42. Bret the Hitman December 29th, 2009 at 8:05 pm

    If Cashman passed on Matsui, and dealt Melky in order to sign Nick Johnson and a podunk LF?

    OFF with his head.

  43. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 29th, 2009 at 8:05 pm

    hopefully Holliday goes to ST Louis at a bargain price. Will make me happy for Boras

  44. Anthony Murillo December 29th, 2009 at 8:06 pm

    If LF is a serious, serious problem mid-way in the season, Cashman will likely do his magic and make a trade for a big LF, kind of like he did with Abreu in 2006.

  45. LLIME December 29th, 2009 at 8:09 pm

    Passing on Holliday for Crawford is like passing on a meal tonight 5 Guys in order to eat at McDonalds the following night. Go one whole day (or this case, year) with being hungry (like we are with Gardner/Reed in left).

    (and that McDonalds might not even be there at the next rest stop, just like Crawford may not be there next year).

  46. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 8:09 pm

    RT,
    I confused myself on that one. I guess the bottom line is. How much revenue does the Yankees make if and when they make the world series(home games, memorabilia, BEER, league bonuses, etc.) If it covers or comes close to covering for Hollidays contract. IM ALL IN!! So should Cash and Co.. Its the closest to a guarantee as there is(health not derailing us of course.).

  47. Doreen December 29th, 2009 at 8:10 pm

    To be fair, Matsui also had his horrible slumps and scared no one while he was in the midst of one of them.
    I don’t want to disrespect Matsui – but let’s not make him out to be flawless.
    Posada may not be perfect, but he’s no slouch – he’s a switch hitter with power who I seem to recall getting a few clutch hits in his time, including last season.

    I for one am glad that Bay is not on the Red Sox any more!

  48. Bret the Hitman December 29th, 2009 at 8:11 pm

    Matsui gone.

    For what?

    I dunno.

    Just gone.

    For nothing.

  49. Phil the Thrill December 29th, 2009 at 8:13 pm

    Anthony, which LF will he trade for?

  50. BJK December 29th, 2009 at 8:13 pm

    Bret the Hitman
    December 29th, 2009 at 8:05 pm
    If Cashman passed on Matsui, and dealt Melky in order to sign Nick Johnson and a podunk LF?

    OFF with his head.

    ——————————————————–

    Cashman passed on Matsui because he thinks his knees are done. He thinks it’s a miracle that Matsui got through the season. How many times did he have his knees drained?

    I will miss Matsui. He’s the man. But more than likely Matsui version 2010 will not be Matsui version 2009.

  51. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 8:15 pm

    Anthony, which LF will he trade for?

    =======

    Some sound like they wanted the Yanks to resign Matsui for left. Matsui’s situation is just like Giambi’s. Everyone wanted him back for 1 more year as a dh. Cash let him walk and we havnt looked back.

  52. OldYanksFan December 29th, 2009 at 8:16 pm

    Mainly, signing Holliday would take away the flexible option of signing or not signing Crawford a year later — if he’s available.
    —————————–
    Carl Crawford is very fast.
    He is a GREAT defender.
    He also has a career OBP of .335
    and a career OPS+ of 103.
    Aside from Gardner, he would be the worst hitter on the team.
    …. and you would pay him how much?

  53. jpb1973 December 29th, 2009 at 8:16 pm

    Passing on Holliday for Crawford is like passing on a meal tonight 5 Guys in order to eat at McDonalds the following night. Go one whole day (or this case, year) with being hungry (like we are with Gardner/Reed in left).

    (and that McDonalds might not even be there at the next rest stop, just like Crawford may not be there next year).

    ——————————————————–

    But that is exactly the strategy they emplyed in 2008 when they passed on Johan Sanatana while waiting a year to get CC Sabathia. Remember, there were a lot of baseball people who thought the Yankees were nuts for doing so because CC Sabathia had failed miserably in postseason for the Indians and Brewers. Nonetheless, the Yankees made the right move.

    Look, if the Yankees have a huge hole in left field at the end of next season, there is no way that Carl Crawford will resign with Tampa Bay. By leaving left field “compromised” this season the Yankees are telling Crawford that they have an opening…I’m sure he and his agent will see it that way.

  54. Bret the Hitman December 29th, 2009 at 8:18 pm

    Look, if the Yankees have a huge hole in left field at the end of next season, there is no way that Carl Crawford will resign with Tampa Bay. By leaving left field “compromised” this season the Yankees are telling Crawford that they have an opening…I’m sure he and his agent will see it that way.

    1 thing keeping me from blowing my brains out.

    Just 1 though.

  55. jpb1973 December 29th, 2009 at 8:20 pm

    I for one am glad that Bay is not on the Red Sox any more!

    ——————————————————–

    Doreen,

    Me too!!! That guy killed us. Now, as a Met he will only hurt us 6 times a season instead of 18 times as a Red Sock.

    Thank you, Omar Manaya

  56. ANSKY December 29th, 2009 at 8:22 pm

    BJK

    I think the ’10 version of Sushi-san will actually be a little better than the ’09 version, but neither version will match the pre-injury version we enjoyed watching until that wrist went SNAP and the knees started to show wear & tear from his Iron Horse years. At least we had him at is best until then, and he came through when he could after then.

  57. Bronx Jeers December 29th, 2009 at 8:23 pm

    CC is not a McDonald’s hamburger.

    More like Jackson Hole.

  58. vb03 December 29th, 2009 at 8:24 pm

    Wahhh Cashman doesn’t want to sign a $85M LF waaaaaaaaaah

    This is why people hate Yankees fans, spoiled brats.

    Only Yankee fans would still want to blow their own brains out after winning the World Series. Do us all a favor and go through with it.

  59. Jerkface December 29th, 2009 at 8:25 pm

    I love Matsui but his best batting line in 2009 was at its best in the 6 hole or lower. He was only alright in the 5 and bad in the 4th.

    Matsui owns, especially with RISP and other clutch situations, but he isn’t ridiculously amazing, or else other teams would have been lining up to sign him.

  60. Uncle Ellsworth (Expert textpert choking smokers, don't you think the joker laughs at you) December 29th, 2009 at 8:27 pm

    How is 5 guys?

  61. yankeeman0 December 29th, 2009 at 8:27 pm

    No offense, but you Holliday “guys” are nuts…How many rings did we win with the Chad Curtis’s and Shane Spencer’s of the world? To refresh everyone’s memory our most dominant team since perhaps the 60s (1998 team) had Chad Curtis in LF. He played 150 Gms had 545 AB with 10HR-56RBI-79R-.243AVG-21SB. So please stop it..we do not and should not tie up another longterm contract with a guy who will be in his mid-30s when his contract expires!! Cash is doing the right thing here.

  62. Bret the Hitman December 29th, 2009 at 8:27 pm

    I can’t remember the last time I ate McDonald’s. I honestly don’t know where I was or what I ate. It was a long long time ago. The last fast-food I ate was about 1 year ago. Wendy’s Spicy Chicken sandwhich.

  63. Rick December 29th, 2009 at 8:28 pm

    And John Henry was going to eat $9MM of Lowell’s $12.5MM contract ? C’mon !

    http://bx.businessweek.com/hed.....c0b517385/

  64. BJK December 29th, 2009 at 8:30 pm

    ANSKY
    December 29th, 2009 at 8:22 pm
    BJK

    I think the ‘10 version of Sushi-san will actually be a little better than the ‘09 version, but neither version will match the pre-injury version we enjoyed watching until that wrist went SNAP and the knees started to show wear & tear from his Iron Horse years.

    —————————————————–

    For Matsui’s sake, I hope you’re right. For Anaheim’s sake, I hope you’re wrong ;)

  65. Neil B. December 29th, 2009 at 8:30 pm

    oh noes!!! we don’t have TEH NUMBER FIVE HITTER

    i think the yankees will be fine with a combination of posada and granderson batting behind a-rod – how are they any different from matsui?

  66. ANSKY December 29th, 2009 at 8:30 pm

    SoS –

    Afer a couple years of struggling with his post-PED physical makeup, Giambi could finally hit comfortably above the Mendoza line. After that, putting together two consecutive months with a .250 average still seemed to be pushing it for him.

    At least the post-injury Matsui could still hit above the average major league batting average for all except maybe a couple months when he played.

  67. bru December 29th, 2009 at 8:31 pm

    jpb1973
    December 29th, 2009 at 8:16 pm
    Passing on Holliday for Crawford is like passing on a meal tonight 5 Guys in order to eat at McDonalds the following night. Go one whole day (or this case, year) with being hungry (like we are with Gardner/Reed in left).

    (and that McDonalds might not even be there at the next rest stop, just like Crawford may not be there next year).

    ——————————————————–

    But that is exactly the strategy they emplyed in 2008 when they passed on Johan Sanatana while waiting a year to get CC Sabathia. Remember, there were a lot of baseball people who thought the Yankees were nuts for doing so because CC Sabathia had failed miserably in postseason for the Indians and Brewers. Nonetheless, the Yankees made the right move.

    Look, if the Yankees have a huge hole in left field at the end of next season, there is no way that Carl Crawford will resign with Tampa Bay. By leaving left field “compromised” this season the Yankees are telling Crawford that they have an opening…I’m sure he and his agent will see it that way
    ———————————————————–

    it is not the exact strategy

    its not even close

    we passed on santanna because it would of cost us a boatload of prospects & money

    holliday & crawford will not cost us prospects but holliday is a much better hitter than crawford

    drives in more runs with a much better obp

    crawford waits to be driven in

    holliday drives them in & gets on base more for others to do so as well

    if we don’t sign an o.f. this year or next i understand but to wait for crawford who will get about the same amount of years & maybe a few million less is wrong imo

  68. Betsy - high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 8:31 pm

    Purposely leaving LF with a black hole just so the Yankees can possibly sign Crawford is a completely ridiculous idea. CC was always going FA and the Yankees knew they were going to blow other teams away. Even assuming they like Crawford a lot, he’s clearly not the type of player you blow away. So, the Yankees will have competition for his services….and who’s to say he will sign here? Who’s to say he’ll even become a FA?

    I hestitate to make ANY trades at this point (and I’d like to think Cash feels the same way) because it would require dinging the farm system a bit more and I’m not sure we want to do that. Forget making a trade at the deadline anyway; if it’s to the point where we need a LF at that point, it means we’re fairly desperate and other teams will demand Joba/Hughes/Montero, etc…… The best thing to do would be to take care of LF before the season. I trust Cash, so I expect him pull something off.

  69. Bret the Hitman December 29th, 2009 at 8:32 pm

    vb03
    December 29th, 2009 at 8:24 pm
    Wahhh Cashman doesn’t want to sign a $85M LF waaaaaaaaaah

    This is why people hate Yankees fans, spoiled brats.

    Only Yankee fans would still want to blow their own brains out after winning the World Series. Do us all a favor and go through with it.

    :lol:

    Somebody’s upset.

  70. stuckey December 29th, 2009 at 8:35 pm

    “The best thing to do would be to take care of LF before the season. I trust Cash, so I expect him pull something off.”

    And we’ve come full circle.

    Who?

    Roster and stats are available in abundance online. I really have a hard time wrapping my head around a dedicated fans expecting the GM to giftwrap an above average LF they’ve apparently never even heard of…

  71. Phil the Thrill December 29th, 2009 at 8:35 pm

    Passing on a prospect rich Santana trade to wait on free agent CC, is not the same as passing on free agent Holliday to wait for possible free agent Crawford. One is a pay twice vs. pay once, the other is pay once vs. pay once unless he re-signs.

  72. bru December 29th, 2009 at 8:36 pm

    now if cashman likes crawford better i am ok with that

    i just don’t think he is better

    holliday did fine with st louis & oakland

    not as good as colorado but still a nice avg,obp,slg,ops

    he will give you 30/110/ in our lineup & is a much better # 5 hitter than cc

    his splits do concern me a little but at least he did well enough away from coors

  73. Betsy - high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 8:36 pm

    The division wasn’t anywhere near as good in 1998-2000 as it is now. There are reasons for not wanting Holliday, but the argument that “we won before with a rotating LF” is not a strong one – in fact, I don’t buy it at all.

  74. stuckey December 29th, 2009 at 8:37 pm

    …And it’s good to see an entire day’s worth of posts devoted to the strawman argument that Yankees aren’t pursuing Holiday to save their pennies for Crawford.

  75. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 8:38 pm

    I say either get us a legit #5 hitter(dynasty years had a formadable 3/4/5/ in the lineup) or lets just play with a ghost man in left and a ghost man in the #5.

    signed
    Spoiled by success.

    Have a good night fellas.

  76. Betsy - high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 8:40 pm

    First of all, Stuckey, tell me where I said Cash would find an above average LF. I said he would pull something off, meaning he’ll find someone. I trust him, so whomever he gets I’ll probably be happy with. What exactly is your point? You don’t think Cashman will get another LF? You think Gardner will start in LF?

  77. Laura December 29th, 2009 at 8:40 pm

    I’m not sure why the Cards aren’t playing hardball with Holliday. They know that he’s got nowhere else to go. Why not tell him he’s got a week to decide and see what happens? That’s what I would do.

  78. stuckey December 29th, 2009 at 8:40 pm

    “but the argument that “we won before with a rotating LF” is not a strong one – in fact, I don’t buy it at all.”

    How about they won the division by 8, qualified for the post-season by 16, and cruised to a WS at 11-4 with essentially an equal to inferior offense as they’ll field this year and almost definitely a weaker defense.

    Can you purchase that in good conscious?

  79. Ham Fighters December 29th, 2009 at 8:41 pm

    agree with yankeeman0, take a holliday on holliday!

  80. RalphieD (OPPC) December 29th, 2009 at 8:41 pm

    holiday..ill take him or leave him…this is nothing like the tex signing last year…we needed some extra offense last season….this year no extra offense is needed..

  81. S.o.S. December 29th, 2009 at 8:42 pm

    Sorry Ansky. Didnt see your post. I mentioned Giambi because he was no more than an aging dh. Matsui is going to Disneyland to play left field as well as dh. Lets see how long that lasts. Lets see if those weekly knee drainings stop working. Im all for a 5 hitter that isnt past his prime. We will see what Cash has up his sleeve.

    Night for real this time.

  82. stuckey December 29th, 2009 at 8:43 pm

    Betsy, I;m simply asking the same, reasonable question I’ve asked all along. Name some of the LF that Cashman might bring in?

    And if Cashman sticks with Gardner, and you trust Cashman, doesn’t that mean you’ll be happy with Gardner?

  83. CD December 29th, 2009 at 8:44 pm

    # Laura December 29th, 2009 at 8:40 pm

    I’m not sure why the Cards aren’t playing hardball with Holliday. They know that he’s got nowhere else to go. Why not tell him he’s got a week to decide and see what happens? That’s what I would do.
    =====================================
    Just cuz boras is an azz doesn’t mean the cards have to lower themselves to his level.

    They can wait for boras to wave the white flag — it costs them nothing to wait.

  84. Bret the Hitman December 29th, 2009 at 8:45 pm

    Laura
    December 29th, 2009 at 8:40 pm
    I’m not sure why the Cards aren’t playing hardball with Holliday. They know that he’s got nowhere else to go.

    Not necessarily. They obviously don’t know enough to put it all on the line with a time limit.

  85. Ken December 29th, 2009 at 8:45 pm

    I still contend it was a mistake to let Matsui walk away but the Yanks have enough fire power to withstand his and Damons loss. Even with those two losses we still have the best offense in all of baseball.

  86. bru December 29th, 2009 at 8:46 pm

    to complicate matters further what happens if crawford has an off year & holliday mashes?

    are you still going to wan’t to gamble on craw & his .335 lifetime obp?

  87. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 8:48 pm

    Laura

    “I’m not sure why the Cards aren’t playing hardball with Holliday. They know that he’s got nowhere else to go.”

    Maybe they know that he does.

  88. Laura December 29th, 2009 at 8:50 pm

    “Not necessarily. They obviously don’t know enough to put it all on the line with a time limit.”

    Who knows? Maybe they don’t want Holliday to accept their offer. I still don’t get how they are going to sign him to this contract AND give Pujols another huge one in two years time.

  89. Bo Knows December 29th, 2009 at 8:50 pm

    Just for the sake of argument – Gardner hits like he did last year pre injury. So you have a CF with a 350 OBP, 50 SB, around a 100 OPS+. Why would you need Crawford for 15 mil per year?

  90. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 8:50 pm

    I can see the Yankees’ primary 2011 FA target being the pitcher who plays the game the right way.

  91. Laura December 29th, 2009 at 8:52 pm

    “Maybe they know that he does.”

    What are you saying, Rich? That STL thinks that if they give Holliday an ultimatum, the Yankees will swoop in and gobble him up? I don’t see that happening. I’m one of those who believes that Cash is waiting on Crawford.

  92. bru December 29th, 2009 at 8:53 pm

    RalphieD (OPPC)
    December 29th, 2009 at 8:41 pm
    holiday..ill take him or leave him…this is nothing like the tex signing last year…we needed some extra offense last season….this year no extra offense is needed..

    ————————————————————

    you would change your tune if the rs signed a big bat

  93. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 8:54 pm

    No, Laura, my point is that there may be other interested parties, and that is what the Cards may think. I have no idea who they are, only some who are not.

    Why would Cash wait on Craw when he has said that he wants a team filled with grinders?

  94. Bronx Jeers December 29th, 2009 at 8:55 pm

    I’m pleading with Cashman to fill this hole!

    Whoever.

    The underbelly is developing an ulcer.

  95. Laura December 29th, 2009 at 8:55 pm

    “we needed some extra offense last season….this year no extra offense is needed..”

    The theory is that Granderson and Johnson will replace Matsui and Damon’s production. That remains to be seen. I’m convinced that Granderson will put up good numbers. I’m not convinced at all that Johnson will remain healthy long enough to contribute. I’ve got my fingers crossed though.

  96. crawdaddy December 29th, 2009 at 8:55 pm

    We’re assuming that ownership hasn’t already told Cashman “no” in regard to Holliday.

  97. Laura December 29th, 2009 at 8:57 pm

    “Why would Cash wait on Craw when he has said that he wants a team filled with grinders?”

    To me, the fact that he didn’t pounce on Bay or Holliday says that he’s waiting for someone else. Of next year’s crop, Crawford seems the most attractive – at least to me.

  98. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 8:58 pm

    crawdaddy

    My guess is that Holliday would be beyond their budget. The questions are: 1) Will Cash seek approval from Hal to go above budget? and 2) Will Hal acceded to Cash’s request?

  99. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 9:00 pm

    Laura

    “To me, the fact that he didn’t pounce on Bay or Holliday says that he’s waiting for someone else. Of next year’s crop, Crawford seems the most attractive – at least to me.”

    Maybe he really doesn’t want to have his roster flexibility impeded by yet another long term contract.

  100. bru December 29th, 2009 at 9:01 pm

    i think cashman wants to save money for pitchers like lee

    pitching first & he knows it will cost a lot

    i also think he must be convinced we need another big bat/outfielder & until he does no holliday

    if a big bat is missing crawford/werth might be it

    the splits are probably a concern regarding holliday

  101. randyhater December 29th, 2009 at 9:01 pm

    There is no way we start the season with the current scenario in LF. No way.

    Realistically, you need 6 legitimate players to man the outfield, 1B, and DH because at least one of your first 5 will miss significant time. What happens the first week of May when Granderson tears a hammy, or Swisher gets poked in the eye while getting his hair gelled, or someone brushes against Nick Johnson and his leg falls off? You’d be fielding an everyday line-up with both Gardner and Hoffman, with the added bonus of Cervelli every time you play a day game after a night. No thanks.

    Damon is the obvious move and I have to believe Cash is just trying to drive his price down (like he did Clemens after ’02, like he did Andy last year). Ruling out the king’s ransom Holliday will demand, there are no other real options.

  102. crawdaddy December 29th, 2009 at 9:02 pm

    “crawdaddy

    My guess is that Holliday would be beyond their budget. The questions are: 1) Will Cash seek approval from Hal to go above budget? and 2) Will Hal acceded to Cash’s request?”

    Rich,

    My guess is that Cash already sought approval from Hal and was turned down. Only a couple of weeks ago, Cashman specifically stated that he’s turned down by ownership more often then people realize because the media never catches wind of it.

  103. bru December 29th, 2009 at 9:03 pm

    we lost about 45 rbi comparing nj & cg too matsui & damon

    figure arod giving us 20-30 more than 09

    we are a little better in obp,slg,ops with nj & cg

    no loss there

  104. crawdaddy December 29th, 2009 at 9:05 pm

    “we lost about 45 rbi comparing nj & cg too matsui & damon

    figure arod giving us 20-30 more than 09

    we are a little better in obp,slg,ops with nj & cg

    no loss there”

    Hard to do a fair comparison since the Yankee lineup last year was circular while the teams NG and CG were far from that.

  105. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 9:06 pm

    crawdaddy

    The reason I couched it in these terms was that last year, it seemed like he didn’t talk about Teix with Hal until he needed a decision in order to prevent the RS from getting him. So using that logic, the time may not yet be ripe. But who knows?

  106. bru December 29th, 2009 at 9:06 pm

    randyhater
    December 29th, 2009 at 9:01 pm
    There is no way we start the season with the current scenario in LF. No way.

    Realistically, you need 6 legitimate players to man the outfield, 1B, and DH because at least one of your first 5 will miss significant time. What happens the first week of May when Granderson tears a hammy, or Swisher gets poked in the eye while getting his hair gelled, or someone brushes against Nick Johnson and his leg falls off? You’d be fielding an everyday line-up with both Gardner and Hoffman, with the added bonus of Cervelli every time you play a day game after a night. No thanks.

    Damon is the obvious move and I have to believe Cash is just trying to drive his price down (like he did Clemens after ‘02, like he did Andy last year). Ruling out the king’s ransom Holliday will demand, there are no other real options.
    ————————————————————

    lmfao

  107. crawdaddy December 29th, 2009 at 9:09 pm

    When it comes to player acquisitions, the GM usually takes the hit from fans when they’re upset about not getting a certain player. Even though, I think that’s part of the job description for being a GM, I think ownership tells their GMs “no” more often than any of us realize in such matters.

  108. bru December 29th, 2009 at 9:12 pm

    i just hope hal knows what he is doing

    if we need too stop spending fine but if the money is there i hope we are not making a mistake

    these second generation owners make me nervous

    it is not like we were a failing business

    we are the most powerfull team on the planet & changing things concerns me

    just go above hal & ask george

    the holliday press conference would be tomorrow

  109. Ross December 29th, 2009 at 9:12 pm

    Sources: Boras started doubling back to teams to talk about Holliday. Stated asking price in at least one conversation was $18 mill. a year
    about 3 hours ago from web
    Buster_ESPN

    I see that SB is STILL going with the ‘it only takes one dumb GM’ theory of baseball contracts. Well, hopefully, the days of the Yankees being that ‘one dumb team’ have passed.

    To paraphrase Chico Marx in that magnificent 1932 Paramount film, ‘Horse Feathers’,

    ‘Kool Aid! Get your Tootsie-Frootsie Kool Aid!’

  110. murphydog December 29th, 2009 at 9:12 pm

    “It’s in the Yanks’ best interest not to upset the apple cart and tick off the owners by spending even more money, coming off a WS win.

    As it is, the rest of the league was mortified. Numerous owners spoke out about the need for greater revenue sharing and a cap.”

    Spending too much does not equal success. Just look at the Yankees over the last decade. The Yankees are always held up as sinners for spending too much but the joke has been on them for a long time because they spent unwisely. When will people get this?

    Simple, logical question for all the “reformers” out there: if we know for a fact that spending too much does not guarantee ultimate success, why does spending “too much” have to be stopped in the best interest of baseball? Answer: It doesn’t.

    Some baseball owners are able to keep running a losing operation thanks to luxury tax/revenue sharing proceeds, instead of spending enough out of their own g.d. pockets to actually try to win. Those owners should be “mortified” by their cheapness, their disingenuous relationship to the sport and its fans. Such owners raise the need for a salary floor, a minimum, not a salary cap. It’s not my idea, but it’s the answer to this stupid, stupid argument about the need to thwart the perceived inequity of the success of big spenders.

    To succeed in any business you have to spend money. Spend money wisely and you will make money. Why isn’t that ok anymore? I say out with the proto-socialists in baseball. It’s the American Game, not the French or English or Italian game.

  111. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 9:13 pm

    craw

    I didn’t mean to imply that Hal will necessarily say yes.

  112. YankeeRay December 29th, 2009 at 9:14 pm

    This really is getting stupid. We are not signing Damon back and a LF of Gardner/Hoffman/Johnson is a joke.
    We are in year 2 of the 3-4 year window to win with the core 4 and Arod which will probably lose one player after this year.
    Why would you not go for it now as opposed to potentially letting Boston take another title from under our nose. There is no guarantee that we win with Holliday but it certainly gives us 4 hole protection and protection if Tex or Arod miss any time.
    Next year there are no guarantess that we will get Crawford and even if there was Holliday is a better player this year and beyond.
    Love the 5 guys analogy earlier.
    Next year Swishers contract escalates and if we need to go cheaper then we can move him and still have a solid middle of the order.
    This is all on Hal and he needs to step up and make his trademark move to solidify a chance at a run of 4 out of 5 again. Backload the deal and be done with it.

  113. ortforshort December 29th, 2009 at 9:14 pm

    Who would you rather have on your team next year? Two guys who have sort of equal hitting ability, but one can run and one can’t? One has a history of coming up big in big games vs. one who never played in any big games? One who can’t get thru a season without hitting the DL several times vs a gamer. One who’s a proven situational hitter vs. one who isn’t? One who can play the outfield vs one who can’t? Losing the guy who can run, has an outstanding big game history, is a gamer and is a proven situational hitter and can play the outfield on an outfield challenged team is a big loss not made up by the other big, clunky guy.
    Also, replacing a guy who can hit any kind of pitching in the middle of the lineup with a guy who can’t hit lefthanders causes all sorts of problems, particularly late in games in clutch situations where a glaring weakness will always be exploited.
    Just looking at overall numbers is a big mistake. You need to look at one gives you in close games that the other doesn’t. Granderson in the 5 hole is a disaster waiting to happen. No matter what the overall numbers are, it won’t work.

  114. crawdaddy December 29th, 2009 at 9:15 pm

    “crawdaddy

    The reason I couched it in these terms was that last year, it seemed like he didn’t talk about Teix with Hal until he needed a decision in order to prevent the RS from getting him. So using that logic, the time may not yet be ripe. But who knows?”

    Rich,

    I understand what you’re saying, but he talks to Hal every day and probably more than a few times each day so it’s hard for me to think of a scenario in which Hal isn’t approach early in the process in which they talk about the current status whether Hal gives him a thumbs up or down.

  115. crawdaddy December 29th, 2009 at 9:18 pm

    “i just hope hal knows what he is doing

    if we need too stop spending fine but if the money is there i hope we are not making a mistake

    these second generation owners make me nervous

    it is not like we were a failing business

    we are the most powerfull team on the planet & changing things concerns me

    just go above hal & ask george

    the holliday press conference would be tomorrow”

    In honesty, I’m glad George isn’t in control any longer. Sure, he’ll spend the money, but at what cost in regard to the rest of the organization.

  116. Pokey December 29th, 2009 at 9:19 pm

    backloading the deal does nothing to the tax implications though.

    And there will probably never be a salary cap, since the player’s union essentially controls baseball, and the rich owners aren’t going to go for it without the lower payroll teams agreeing to a minimum team salary, which they won’t agree to.

  117. Laura December 29th, 2009 at 9:20 pm

    I can understand the Steinbrenners wanting to trim the budget, but this notion of having such a weakened LF is unacceptable. I’m not saying we need Holliday there. However, I don’t feel that Gardner is the answer either.

  118. crawdaddy December 29th, 2009 at 9:21 pm

    “And there will probably never be a salary cap, since the player’s union essentially controls baseball, and the rich owners aren’t going to go for it without the lower payroll teams agreeing to a minimum team salary, which they won’t agree to.”

    True, but I expect a hike in the luxury tax rate which will negatively affect the Yankees.

  119. crawdaddy December 29th, 2009 at 9:22 pm

    “I can understand the Steinbrenners wanting to trim the budget, but this notion of having such a weakened LF is unacceptable. I’m not saying we need Holliday there. However, I don’t feel that Gardner is the answer either.”

    Laura,

    I don’t think the Yankees have any intentions of going into the season with only Gardner as their starting left fielder.

  120. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 9:23 pm

    “backloading the deal does nothing to the tax implications though.”

    But you can give him a large bonus, since according to this article, they can be prorated for tax purposes.

  121. murphydog December 29th, 2009 at 9:23 pm

    BTW, my daughter insisted we eat at 5 Guys a little while ago, at the one in Levittown on Hempstead Tpke. I still think I have high blood pressure from all the sodium. It was tasty and no frills, alright. And most important, my little girl loved that I took her there. I only have so much time left (she’s turning 12 in a week) before I turn into an idiot trying to ruin her life so I take advantage of these opportunities regardless of the risk to my health ;)

  122. bru December 29th, 2009 at 9:24 pm

    just tell hal that the rs are close to signing holliday & we must act fast

    i don’t know the financiall situation but if the money is there & we need a lf why not upgrade?

    100 million above revenue expectations in 09 in a terrible recession pays for hollidays whole contract with 15 million left over for another ace

    just kidding about the ace part

    i just feel that that money will come back to us

    i don’t know what revenues are but if we can stay at 50-55 percent of revenues i think we are fine & with the extra 09 revenues we should treat ourselves

    if revenues are 400 million yearly we should have a 200-220(50-55 %) million dollar payroll & that is how we explain it too owners

  123. Phil the Thrill December 29th, 2009 at 9:29 pm

    The Yanks have probably never been so flush, and it’s gonna keep growing for the foreseeable future.

  124. crawdaddy December 29th, 2009 at 9:31 pm

    “if revenues are 400 million yearly we should have a 200-220(50-55 %) million dollar payroll & that is how we explain it too owners”

    You already have such a payroll plus the 40% luxury tax for anything over 170M and revenue sharing. Yankee fans have a lot of gall complaining about the Yankees lack of spending.

  125. bru December 29th, 2009 at 9:32 pm

    crawdaddy
    December 29th, 2009 at 9:18 pm
    “i just hope hal knows what he is doing

    if we need too stop spending fine but if the money is there i hope we are not making a mistake

    these second generation owners make me nervous

    it is not like we were a failing business

    we are the most powerfull team on the planet & changing things concerns me

    just go above hal & ask george

    the holliday press conference would be tomorrow”

    In honesty, I’m glad George isn’t in control any longer. Sure, he’ll spend the money, but at what cost in regard to the rest of the organization.

    ———————————————————

    i don’t know if you can answer that with the certainty you are proclaiming

    the boss made this team what it is not hal

    remember that

  126. Lenny / Squiggy December 29th, 2009 at 9:33 pm

    http://www.canada.com/health/T.....story.html

    .
    now THIS makes sense !

  127. Bronx Born December 29th, 2009 at 9:33 pm

    Hey Murph, I know what you mean, although my girls are much older now. Five Guys rocks. We have a couple down here and we go there whenever we can.

  128. Laura December 29th, 2009 at 9:33 pm

    “I don’t think the Yankees have any intentions of going into the season with only Gardner as their starting left fielder.”

    Oh, I agree. This totally reeks of a “Bubba Crosby is our CF” move. As any impatient fan, I’d like to have this wrapped up sooner rather than later.

  129. bru December 29th, 2009 at 9:35 pm

    i am also not sure the boss would have signed pettitte,tex,cc & burnett so give hal credit there

  130. Yankee Trader December 29th, 2009 at 9:36 pm

    Damon will get an offer of 5-7 million to DH-A’s and White Sox might be looking for a DH.

    If Damon came back to NY, could you live with one more year of him playing LF, with late inning replacement of Gardner and/or Hoffman?

    Holliday will sign soon, IMO. Have no idea why the Giants, who could use one more bat, don’t go after him. That move could easily have them finish 1st in their division.

    We’ve exhausted all the FA possibilities for LF, and other than Holliday, is there an infielder or catcher [righty] free agent who could do a respectable job in LF and provide some pop?
    Tejada, Mora,

  131. crawdaddy December 29th, 2009 at 9:37 pm

    “i don’t know if you can answer that with the certainty you are proclaiming

    the boss made this team what it is not hal

    remember that”

    Remember this, it’s my opinion. If you want to believe otherwise, fine, but George Steinbrenner was not this beloved figure some of the younger fans think of him as. One day, I wish Cashman would write his own book.

  132. Wait till we do it all over again December 29th, 2009 at 9:38 pm

    Love or hate Steinbrenner (and there were no shortage of haters) he took the Yankees from oblivion and under his ownership, they have six world series titles.

    I hope he makes the HOF.

  133. Laura December 29th, 2009 at 9:39 pm

    “Remember this, it’s my opinion. If you want to believe otherwise, fine, but George Steinbrenner was not this beloved figure some of the younger fans think of him as. One day, I wish Cashman would write his own book.”

    No one has been able to remake their image like the Boss has. It’s amazing how he’s been able to go from most hated to beloved.

  134. crawdaddy December 29th, 2009 at 9:44 pm

    “No one has been able to remake their image like the Boss has. It’s amazing how he’s been able to go from most hated to beloved.”

    It all started that one day when he started crying during that interview.:)

    Just to be clear, it was a good thing for Yankees fans that George bought the Yankees. However, to be fair, he could’ve been more successful if he did a few things differently.

  135. bru December 29th, 2009 at 9:44 pm

    crawdaddy
    December 29th, 2009 at 9:31 pm
    “if revenues are 400 million yearly we should have a 200-220(50-55 %) million dollar payroll & that is how we explain it too owners”

    You already have such a payroll plus the 40% luxury tax for anything over 170M and revenue sharing. Yankee fans have a lot of gall complaining about the Yankees lack of spending.

    ———————————————————–

    you are misenterpeting my comments

    who said anything about the lack of spending???

    i question if not signing halladay if the money is there the right approach

    i don’t know but neither does anybody else

    we signed tex,cc,burnett & pettitte & it worked

    winning & spending is what made this team not a self imposed salary cap

    if the money is there spend,spend,spend

  136. Bronx Born December 29th, 2009 at 9:46 pm

    You are right Laura, there was a time I truly hated George, with a passion. He was despicable in some of the things he did with players and managers. What he did with Dave Winfield was truly disgusting in my opinion. But he did make up for it in many ways since those days. The Yankees contribute a tremendous amount to the community both in New York and in Florida. His legacy is quite astounding. But boy back in the day I could not stand him.

  137. Uncle Ellsworth (Expert textpert choking smokers, don't you think the joker laughs at you) December 29th, 2009 at 9:47 pm

    so 5 guys is worth the trip?

    Thanks

  138. crawdaddy December 29th, 2009 at 9:47 pm

    “winning & spending is what made this team not a self imposed salary cap

    if the money is there spend,spend,spend”

    Easy for you to say, it’s not your money.

  139. Wait till we do it all over again December 29th, 2009 at 9:50 pm

    “Just to be clear, it was a good thing for Yankees fans that George bought the Yankees. However, to be fair, he could’ve been more successful if he did a few things differently.”

    Exactly. However, it was still a net positive for the Yankees that they were bought by George Steinbrenner.

  140. Kevlar December 29th, 2009 at 9:50 pm

    Sure, Cash probably won’t go into the season with Gardner as his only option.

    But a Gardner/Reed Johnson platoon isin’t exactly much better.

    Any option where Gardner isin’t a complete 4th OF isin’t a good one.

  141. murphydog December 29th, 2009 at 9:51 pm

    “No one has been able to remake their image like the Boss has. It’s amazing how he’s been able to go from most hated to beloved.”

    As Big Stein would probably tell you himself, Nothing Succeeds Like Success.

    He’s famously short fused and always looked to spark something, to motivate someone. One of the best things I ever read about him is that he was a football guy who brought a football mentality to baseball. (I don’t think it’s great that he did that, I think the description is great and apt.) He didn’t necessarily understand baseball like a guy who was brought up in baseball, but he understood business and the fact that if he was willing to sign the checks, he got to make the decisions. He did some really dumb things

    http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/steinbrenner.html

    and he did some really wonderful things that you never heard of.

    Now he’s old and sick and vulnerable and his kids are looking after his business. It’s all too human a picture and we project our own aging and dying parents onto Big Stein’s image. Hence the love.

    Or maybe it just proves Machiavelli was right after all: Better to be feared than respected.

  142. Matt December 29th, 2009 at 9:51 pm

    Holliday will sign soon, IMO. Have no idea why the Giants, who could use one more bat, don’t go after him. That move could easily have them finish 1st in their division.
    ______________________________________________________________

    The Giants have an arbitration date coming up with Lincecum if I’m not mistaken. That is why they aren’t in the bidding for Holliday.

    Personally, being a Cardinals fan, I don’t want him back. The Yankees can have him.

  143. bru December 29th, 2009 at 9:52 pm

    crawdaddy
    December 29th, 2009 at 9:37 pm
    “i don’t know if you can answer that with the certainty you are proclaiming

    the boss made this team what it is not hal

    remember that”

    Remember this, it’s my opinion. If you want to believe otherwise, fine, but George Steinbrenner was not this beloved figure some of the younger fans think of him as. One day, I wish Cashman would write his own book.

    ———————————————————-

    i respect your opinion & i am 42 years old so i have been around long enough

    if hal had ran this team or anybody else we are not where we are today

    on top of the mountain bathing in cash laughing at everybody else.

    every other team in baseball is crying foul & what do we do in a recession?

    sign tex,cc,burnett,pettitte without blinking an eye & well passed the 09 revenue projections

    there are books written praising the boss

  144. crawdaddy December 29th, 2009 at 9:52 pm

    “Any option where Gardner isin’t a complete 4th OF isin’t a good one.”

    I wouldn’t say that, I would like to give Gardner more than his rookie season to see if can do more.

  145. YankeeRay December 29th, 2009 at 9:53 pm

    murphydog
    December 29th, 2009 at 9:23 pm
    BTW, my daughter insisted we eat at 5 Guys a little while ago, at the one in Levittown on Hempstead Tpke. I still think I have high blood pressure from all the sodium. It was tasty and no frills, alright. And most important, my little girl loved that I took her there. I only have so much time left (she’s turning 12 in a week) before I turn into an idiot trying to ruin her life so I take advantage of these opportunities regardless of the risk to my health

    —–

    Murph, I live in South Florida but grew up in Levittown. Big 5 guys fan in my area down here and happy that Levittown has one so when I go back I can chow down. Love the fries.

  146. Bronx Born December 29th, 2009 at 9:55 pm

    Hey Uncle, 5 Guys def worth the trip. Great burgers and dogs and the hand cut fries are fantastic. High quality fast food…

  147. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 9:57 pm

    “Now he’s old and sick and vulnerable and his kids are looking after his business. It’s all too human a picture and we project our own aging and dying parents onto Big Stein’s image. Hence the love.”

    Pretty much.

  148. Earl December 29th, 2009 at 9:57 pm

    James Dolan is the type of owner you want—- gives your GM the keys to the franchise, stays out of the spotlight and doesn’t intervene, but gives you all the resources to put the best team out on the field possible.

    Did Dolan ever intervene with Isiah? Only once things got out of hand, but he let him do his job and gave him the opportunity to turn it around.

    George meddled too much. His money was great, but he didn’t let his GMs do their jobs and we only were restored to glory after he was suspended.

  149. murphydog December 29th, 2009 at 9:57 pm

    YankeeRay:

    The 5 Guys fries are a treat, but having the right company eating them with you – and rubbing her little, greasy hands all over her jeans until you remind her nicely to please use a napkin – is really the key ;)

  150. Yankee Trader December 29th, 2009 at 9:58 pm

    Asking once more-thinking outside of the box!

    We’ve exhausted all the FA possibilities for LF, and other than Holliday, is there an infielder or catcher [righty] free agent who could do a respectable job in LF and provide some pop?
    Tejada, Mora,Others????

    Thoughts!

  151. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 9:58 pm

    Buster_ESPN

    Sources: Cardinals increasingly optimistic about their chances for re-signing Holliday

  152. ortforshort December 29th, 2009 at 9:58 pm

    The Yankees don’t need Holliday this year if the Red Sox aren’t getting him. I’d rather wait ’til next year and go after Crawford who is a much better all-around player. As long as the Red Sox stay pretty much the way they are (Beltre wouldn’t change that much), then there’s no hurry to commit to Holliday. Also, Montero will probably be ready in 2011. I’d throw him in right field. He looks like he’s going to be a monster.

  153. Vrow December 29th, 2009 at 9:59 pm

    5 guys is heavenly… why anyone would go to another burger place after trying that is beyond me…

    Those free peanuts they give with your order… yummmm….

  154. crawdaddy December 29th, 2009 at 10:00 pm

    “i respect your opinion & i am 42 years old so i have been around long enough

    if hal had ran this team or anybody else we are not where we are today

    on top of the mountain bathing in cash laughing at everybody else.

    every other team in baseball is crying foul & what do we do in a recession?

    sign tex,cc,burnett,pettitte without blinking an eye & well passed the 09 revenue projections

    there are books written praising the boss”

    I glad you can say that, but how do you prove it? Hal is about the age of when his father bought the team so we don’t know how he’s going to turn out, but let’s remember one thing. Hal still has to deal with his siblings which is a lot more complicated than what George had to deal with as principal owner.

  155. Yankee Trader December 29th, 2009 at 10:00 pm

    Have a 5 Guys about 2 miles away. If you bring the fries home don’t put the paper bag on your leather seats!

  156. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 10:00 pm

    “James Dolan is the type of owner you want—- gives your GM the keys to the franchise, stays out of the spotlight and doesn’t intervene, but gives you all the resources to put the best team out on the field possible.”

    I couldn’t disagree more.

    I would rather have a meddling or penny pinching owner than one who hires morons, incompetents, or knaves.

    I want an owner that prizes competence and accountability.

    Dolan can’t even spell those words.

  157. Comet December 29th, 2009 at 10:00 pm

    Uncle E try a Steak and Shake. Get the Wisconsin Cheeseburger if your arteries will handle it. The nearest one is two hours away and I can’t wait to go back. Oh and there’s a Krispy Kreme right next door! Perfect!

  158. murphydog December 29th, 2009 at 10:02 pm

    Earl:

    James Dolan?

    Seriously, Earl. James Dolan is a boob.

    I almost never agree with Loopyca, but he was hitting the motherlode:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....nt_kn.html

  159. jvcelt December 29th, 2009 at 10:03 pm

    how about this….

    jeter
    damon
    nick j
    tex
    arod
    posada
    cano
    swisher
    granderson

  160. Yankee Trader December 29th, 2009 at 10:03 pm

    Now this is a treat!!!!

    http://www.heartattackgrill.com/

  161. Kangaroo December 29th, 2009 at 10:04 pm

    They are self-imposing a cap because they want to have money to invest in the 2010 FA class… Cashman himself deemed it “very impressive”.

    You don’t sign Holliday this year when Crawford, Lee, Beckett, etc. are available next year. And potentially, though improbable, Joe Mauer.

  162. crawdaddy December 29th, 2009 at 10:04 pm

    “I couldn’t disagree more.

    I would rather have a meddling or penny pinching owner than one who hires morons, incompetents, or knaves.

    I want an owner that prizes competence and accountability.

    Dolan can’t even spell those words.”

    Rich,

    Not only that, but Dolan meddled a lot and sometimes over some silly things that should be above a man of his position.

  163. pat December 29th, 2009 at 10:04 pm

    Murphy

    The good news is your stupidity will only last a few years.

    My Dad borrowing from Mark Twain used to ask whenever I came home from college if he got any smarter this semester.

    Darn if he didn’t almost every time and sometimes I would even admit it to him. :wink:

  164. YankeeRay December 29th, 2009 at 10:05 pm

    murphydog
    December 29th, 2009 at 9:57 pm
    YankeeRay:

    The 5 Guys fries are a treat, but having the right company eating them with you – and rubbing her little, greasy hands all over her jeans until you remind her nicely to please use a napkin – is really the key

    Murph, got a 14 yr old boy and 13 yr old boy girl twins along with an 8 yr old girl. Too much grease for me lol

  165. bru December 29th, 2009 at 10:05 pm

    we burried the rs in 09 after a few tough years

    i’d like to keep it that way & stay 2 steps ahead of them not one

    i am ok with the team & with what we have done but if i have money in my pocket burning a hole i get holliday

    if…

    he is the # 5 hitter we need

    we don’t need a bunch of number1,2,3 hitters like crawford or we end up like the angels

    our circular lineup is the reason we beat the angels & phillies

    we wen’t the extra mile & got it done & they didn’t

    that is why we are ws champs & they are not..

  166. JJ December 29th, 2009 at 10:06 pm

    The same James Dolan who basically allowed Stephon Marbury to basically become the CEO of Madison Square Garden?

  167. YankeeRay December 29th, 2009 at 10:07 pm

    Kangaroo
    December 29th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
    They are self-imposing a cap because they want to have money to invest in the 2010 FA class… Cashman himself deemed it “very impressive”.

    You don’t sign Holliday this year when Crawford, Lee, Beckett, etc. are available next year. And potentially, though improbable, Joe Mauer.
    ——

    You sign Holliday this year because only Lee is probable from that group. JV and Pettite allow for Lee. Why keep chasing LF when the best option is available now at what could be considered below market value?

  168. blake December 29th, 2009 at 10:10 pm

    A five guys moved into the buulding beside my office last year. I’ve gained at least five lbs since then as a direct result..

  169. YankeeRay December 29th, 2009 at 10:11 pm

    Holliday balances our lineup better than Crawford. We need a RH power bat to protect the 4 hole. I’d also bat Tex 4th and Arod 3rd so we have L/R every batter.
    Jeter
    Johnson
    Arod
    Tex
    Holliday
    Posada
    Cano
    Swisher
    Granderson

  170. YankeeRay December 29th, 2009 at 10:11 pm

    blake
    December 29th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
    A five guys moved into the buulding beside my office last year. I’ve gained at least five lbs since then as a direct result..

    LOL

  171. Boston Dave - XXVII December 29th, 2009 at 10:12 pm

    “If the Yanks keep spending like drunken sailors, rules will be put in place to make sure it sting even more (i.e. more Yankee tax).”

    ———–

    this isn’t unrealistic.

    like i said, if the Yanks really needed Holliday, you do it.

    but they dont NEED him, and the CBA is going to be discussed and reworked after next season.

    you can’t argue that it’s not in the Yanks best interests to at least appear to have some governance on their spending. They may already be in trouble when the topic of hiking the luxury tax comes up, but if the Yanks show some discipline, it may not be so bad.

    bottom line: there is no team in baseball that has a clearly superior team to the Yanks. The Yanks are at the top as presently constructed.

  172. Jake December 29th, 2009 at 10:12 pm

    Perhaps Cashman wants Crawford because he provides elite speed and elite defense and can be a leadoff/#2 hitter… rather than another station-to-station slugger and average defender?

    Maybe Cash wanted to add another dimension to our team that Crawford provides, not just power, power, power. Crawford may be cheaper as well.

  173. randyhater December 29th, 2009 at 10:12 pm

    “One day, I wish Cashman would write his own book.”

    Chapter 1 – Humble Beginnings

    I was a bug-eyed hillbilly shoveling manure at my old man’s horse farm in the bowels of Kentucky. One week before I was to start my job as assistant to the regional manager of a small paper company, a rich blowhard from NY came to town. In a scene out of a Dickens novel, my father hood-winked him on a horse bet and I was given an entry level position in the big city. I attached myself like a barnacle to the mercurial rich man’s hindquarters and made sure to always agree with every half-baked idea he came up with. While plying him with calzones, I subtly backstabbed anyone a rung ahead of me on the corporate ladder, making particular mention of the 2-martini lunch habits of my immediate supervisor. Eventually the big man fired or drove off everyone else in the organization with half a brain and his favorite Kentucky shine boy was left holding the prize.

    Chapter 2 – How I Convinced Everyone in NY That All the Good Deals Were Mine and the Bad Ones Were Engineered by a Tampa-Based Cabal.

  174. Yanks 61 December 29th, 2009 at 10:13 pm

    lol, I loved how some of the Giants players basically dismissed Harry Carson and his comments.

  175. bru December 29th, 2009 at 10:13 pm

    crawdaddy
    December 29th, 2009 at 10:00 pm
    “i respect your opinion & i am 42 years old so i have been around long enough

    if hal had ran this team or anybody else we are not where we are today

    on top of the mountain bathing in cash laughing at everybody else.

    every other team in baseball is crying foul & what do we do in a recession?

    sign tex,cc,burnett,pettitte without blinking an eye & well passed the 09 revenue projections

    there are books written praising the boss”

    I glad you can say that, but how do you prove it? Hal is about the age of when his father bought the team so we don’t know how he’s going to turn out, but let’s remember one thing. Hal still has to deal with his siblings which is a lot more complicated than what George had to deal with as principal owner.

    ———————————————————–

    i can’t prove anything

    all i have is an opinion

    i just would like to keep the rs miles behind that is all & i think holliday does that

    i read some rs statements & they sounded defeated

    if the money is not there fine but if we made 500-800 million in revenues in 09 as some have suggested that is a few hundred million above normal revenues that collects interest to cover a holliday contract & pay the lux tax for a few years

    i just think we should treat ourselves above & beyond for this one year

  176. Frank December 29th, 2009 at 10:14 pm

    “lol, I loved how some of the Giants players basically dismissed Harry Carson and his comments.”

    Truth sucks sometimes and Harry was offering plenty of truth.

  177. Boston Dave - XXVII December 29th, 2009 at 10:15 pm

    “You already have such a payroll plus the 40% luxury tax for anything over 170M and revenue sharing. Yankee fans have a lot of gall complaining about the Yankees lack of spending.”

    ————

    seriously.

    It’s one thing to want good players. It’s another to feel entitled to have an all-star at every position. Some Yanks fans are embarrassing the rest of us.

  178. murphydog December 29th, 2009 at 10:15 pm

    pat:

    I’m a big, big fan of Twain. Thus I must tell you that reports on my intelligence are greatly exaggerated.

    I’ve been charting the incidence of my daughter’s eye-rolling and/or exasperated exhales when we disagree. The peripherals don’t lie: My pedestal days are in fast decline.

    Still, I am heartened to hear the anecdotal evidence of a correlation between increased paternal wisdom and the approach of college graduation.

  179. miggs- GTLU Reigning Champion December 29th, 2009 at 10:16 pm

    “Spending too much does not equal success. Just look at the Yankees over the last decade. The Yankees are always held up as sinners for spending too much but the joke has been on them for a long time because they spent unwisely. When will people get this?

    Simple, logical question for all the “reformers” out there: if we know for a fact that spending too much does not guarantee ultimate success, why does spending “too much” have to be stopped in the best interest of baseball? Answer: It doesn’t.

    Some baseball owners are able to keep running a losing operation thanks to luxury tax/revenue sharing proceeds, instead of spending enough out of their own g.d. pockets to actually try to win. Those owners should be “mortified” by their cheapness, their disingenuous relationship to the sport and its fans. Such owners raise the need for a salary floor, a minimum, not a salary cap. It’s not my idea, but it’s the answer to this stupid, stupid argument about the need to thwart the perceived inequity of the success of big spenders.

    To succeed in any business you have to spend money. Spend money wisely and you will make money. Why isn’t that ok anymore? I say out with the proto-socialists in baseball. It’s the American Game, not the French or English or Italian game.”

    This post just makes too much sense. I couldn’t have possibly said it better myself. As someone who has run his own business, I have personally felt the pain and inversely the rewards of my expenditures.

    No one should ever be ashamed or admonished for trying to make their specific product the best that it can possibly be. IMO if that’s not your goal you should be doing something else.

  180. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 10:16 pm

    “Perhaps Cashman wants Crawford because he provides elite speed and elite defense and can be a leadoff/#2 hitter… rather than another station-to-station slugger and average defender?”

    There is no evidence that I have seen that suggests that adding Crawford would make the Yankees a better team than adding Holliday.

    Now, if you want to argue that they need to maintain payroll flexibility, fine, but that line of reasoning works against adding Crawford as well as Holliday.

  181. murphydog December 29th, 2009 at 10:18 pm

    “A five guys moved into the buulding beside my office last year. I’ve gained at least five lbs since then as a direct result..”

    And that’s in addition to the remarkable rise in your bad cholesterol!

  182. crawdaddy December 29th, 2009 at 10:19 pm

    “i can’t prove anything

    all i have is an opinion

    i just would like to keep the rs miles behind that is all & i think holliday does that

    i read some rs statements & they sounded defeated

    if the money is not there fine but if we made 500-800 million in revenues in 09 as some have suggested that is a few hundred million above normal revenues that collects interest to cover a holliday contract & pay the lux tax for a few years

    i just think we should treat ourselves above & beyond for this one year”

    I just think the decision to spend on Holliday is more complicated than we as Yankee fans realize which is why I give the ownership the benefit of the doubt in that regard.

  183. Bama December 29th, 2009 at 10:19 pm

    “you can’t argue that it’s not in the Yanks best interests to at least appear to have some governance on their spending. They may already be in trouble when the topic of hiking the luxury tax comes up, but if the Yanks show some discipline, it may not be so bad.”

    Agree. People may not want to accept it, but I bet this is a big factor in their thinking. It is in their best interests not to abuse their power, unless they have to (like last year). Holliday is nice, but hardly a necessity.

    There will never be a salary cap, but there are ways for MLB to make the Yankees feel even more pain if they spend wildly. Do the Yankees really want to pay more tax and give more of their revenue to Pittsburgh and Florida?

  184. CB December 29th, 2009 at 10:20 pm

    I was hoping that if Holliday’s asking price fell to something under 6yrs/ 110M the yanks would be interested.

    It looks like a deal for Holliday would fall right around that mark – probably a bit under. I don’t think Holliday is going to get more than a 6 year deal.

    That was before they traded for Vazquez.

    It’s a very interesting situation. Holliday is not going to get the contract Boras was originally pushing so other factors come more into play.

  185. murphydog December 29th, 2009 at 10:21 pm

    “No one should ever be ashamed or admonished for trying to make their specific product the best that it can possibly be. IMO if that’s not your goal you should be doing something else.”

    That’s the part that always gets me. It’s like I missed a chapter somewhere, the one about only trying so hard to succeed, so as not to upset the people who don’t want to try as hard as you.

    It’s the self-loathing American rearing her (I strive to be gender equal and not default to the masculine) ugly head again.

  186. Gary December 29th, 2009 at 10:21 pm

    Can’t believe what I read from time to time here on the cover page. Our starting left fielder is gone and at best his replacement is a late inning situational defensive replacement and pinch runner. Doesn’t sound like a good recipe for defending your Championship. I don’t care that Bay goes to the Mets, what our worry is who will be out there patrolling LF everyday and for all Melky’s hitting woes we won’t have upgraded that position. The bottom of the order will remain suspect.

  187. Phil the Thrill December 29th, 2009 at 10:22 pm

    The Yanks tried that win with speed crap in `82. It doesn’t work. Crawford doesn’t get on base enough to be a 1 or 2 hitter for the Yankees. Speed is the most overrated tool in baseball.

  188. crawdaddy December 29th, 2009 at 10:22 pm

    “Now, if you want to argue that they need to maintain payroll flexibility, fine, but that line of reasoning works against adding Crawford as well as Holliday.”

    Rich,

    If they don’t sign Holliday, I think it has little to do with Crawford, but what you’re alluding to about payroll flexibility or something else we’re not privy to.

  189. blake December 29th, 2009 at 10:24 pm

    CB, so do you believe the Yankees when they say they have zero interest in Holliday or so you still think it could happen for the right price?

  190. Boston Dave - XXVII December 29th, 2009 at 10:25 pm

    CB,

    I think the Yanks spent their money last year though. Signing Tex was in lieu of signing a big name this offseason.

    They knew who would be hitting the market this offseason last year and they decided to use their chips then.

    If Holliday was a necessity, it would be a different story. But the team they currently have has as good a chance as any to win next season.

    6/110, regardless of perceived “value”, is a serious commitment to a team already sitting at $200M.

  191. CB December 29th, 2009 at 10:27 pm

    blake,

    I don’t think they ever said they had no interest. They’ve instead spoken about the pragmatic constraints of a budget.

    I’m sure they were interested. I’m sure they are doing their due diligence.

    It’s not a matter of interest. It’s a matter of price.

  192. Boston Dave - XXVII December 29th, 2009 at 10:27 pm

    One interesting point:

    if the Yankees were truly uninterested in Holliday, it does them no benefit to state it publicly.

    Even if they didn’t want him, it would be wise to say that they are considering it, in order to drive his price up.

    I suppose they may feel that if Holliday gets his money, somebody like Damon, who perhaps they’re hoping comes back for pennies on the dollar, would be more likely to also command more.

    I don’t know…. it just doesn’t seem like it’s in the Yankees interest to state publicly that there is “zero chance” they sign Holliday.

  193. crawdaddy December 29th, 2009 at 10:28 pm

    There was some expert talking about the luxury tax the other day on XM Radio and suggesting the Yankees pay at least 50% for any amount over the threshold. He said over the years of the last couple of CBAs that the Yankees have spent 44% more than the Red Sox.

  194. Gary December 29th, 2009 at 10:28 pm

    # Phil the Thrill December 29th, 2009 at 10:22 pm

    The Yanks tried that win with speed crap in `82. It doesn’t work. Crawford doesn’t get on base enough to be a 1 or 2 hitter for the Yankees. Speed is the most overrated tool in baseball.

    I keep asking myself about the Cano problem, a .300 hitter that hits at the bottom of the order because he has bad bat control, lacks consistent hustle, and doesn’t drive in runners. Cano should be the #2 hitter setting the table for Tex, AROD and Posada.

    I was reading the Jeter Sportsman of the year article yesterday. The one where they talk about him getting to 1st base in 4 seconds on a routine ground out which is the way he plays all the time. Robinson would be halfway to the dugout on the same play. Anybody able to stick the article in his locker?

  195. Boston Dave - XXVII December 29th, 2009 at 10:29 pm

    CB,

    depending on how much you believe reports, the Yanks have definitely said and “promised” they won’t be signing a big name like a Jason Bay or Matt Holliday.

    typically you never say never… but the Yankees surprisingly have.

    Again, it’s hard to decipher every report from every member of the media, but that’s my understanding based on those reports.

  196. Phil the Thrill December 29th, 2009 at 10:32 pm

    Cano doesn’t lack bat control.

  197. Boston Dave - XXVII December 29th, 2009 at 10:32 pm

    why compare how much the Yanks spend with the Red Sox?

    the Sox are notoriously cheap.

    why not compare how much the avg Red Sox ticket price is? or how much the Sox COULD spend but choose not to?

    there is a big difference between saying the Yanks spent more than the Marlins…

    the Sox have the money to spend. they’re just cheap. that’s not the Yankees fault.

  198. CB December 29th, 2009 at 10:33 pm

    “6/110, regardless of perceived “value”, is a serious commitment to a team already sitting at $200M.”

    It is. In no way is it some trivial expenditure. Signing Holliday would have significant implications on the structure and future of the club.

    After they traded for Vazquez I thought there was a 5% probability it would happen. The probability isn’t high, however I don’t believe it is effectively impossible either.

  199. murphydog December 29th, 2009 at 10:36 pm

    Get comfortable in a soft chair in a dark room with some atmospheric music, some Eno, Music for Airports… start paying attention to your breathing, feel it go out as you exhale and fill your lungs as you inhale…

    Close your eyes and picture a full season of A-Rod behind Teix in 2010 instead of missing April and part of May, and assume also more rest for Posada in 2010 to protect and preserve him and his bat. Restore those missed 2009 ABs to A-Rod and Po in 2010 and picture that Teix is more relaxed and more consistently productive in his second pinstriped season. See Javy pitch behind CC, AJ and Pettitte – and this time he does not give up any Grand Slams to Damon.

    Now … feel any better about losing Matsui and Damon, gaining Johnson and Granderson and not signing Holliday? I am.

  200. CB December 29th, 2009 at 10:36 pm

    “depending on how much you believe reports, the Yanks have definitely said and “promised” they won’t be signing a big name like a Jason Bay or Matt Holliday.”

    But that doesn’t mean they are not interested. Those are very different things.

    I myself am very interested in owning a Ferrari. I can promise you however that it is not going to happen for pragmatic reasons.

    But there is a price at which I would be very tempted to buy.

    And I do think the yankees have a price on Holliday. And I do think they would go over their stated budget to get him at that price.

    I have no idea what that price is and how unfeasible it is for Holliday to fall within that price range.

  201. gianthinker December 29th, 2009 at 10:36 pm

    I think Ca$hman should look at bringing Melvin Mora in to play LF. He’s kind of a Mark DeRosa type who is good enough to start but can play all over the place. I think he would fit nicely. We know from his many years both in NY and in Baltimore that he can play in this market. I would love to have him on our roster.

  202. blake December 29th, 2009 at 10:36 pm

    The Vasquez trade added roughly 8 million dollars to the payroll. If they could trade Mitre or Gaudin that knocks it down to 6 or so. Is 6 million dollars really a significant amount to them that they would be interested before but not after? Also they have basically stated publically that they have zero interest in Holliday which leads me to believe they are trying to keep the price low rather than drive it up for another team.

  203. crawdaddy December 29th, 2009 at 10:37 pm

    “why compare how much the Yanks spend with the Red Sox?”

    Because historically, the Red Sox have been second in spending to the Yankees. In other words, the only team really paying the luxury tax is the Yankees which is why I think they’re going to make it more painful for them to do so in order to slow their spending down.

  204. Chip December 29th, 2009 at 10:37 pm

    Hello from snowy and freezing Vermont hope everyone had a great holiday – just a quick note while I’m browsing the pages – I would agree with bringing in a guy like Scotty Pods or Ryan Church, or Randy Winn, or even a Jonny Gomes on a minor league deal or very low base major league contract, for the simple reason that I think you need to have a major league veteran to compete with Gardner in spring training.

    If the Yankees go to Tampa with only Gardner and Hoffmann and Colin Curtis (and even Reed Johnson) then they’re essentially handing Gardner the job and he has done absolutely zero to earn that kind of status.

    I’m not saying the Yankees have to sign Matt Holliday or even Rick Ankiel, but I think just handing Brett Gardner the job with only token competition is a mistake.

    And as opposed to Reed Johnson – I would rather have Fernando Tatis as the RH option if the Yankees do go for a platoon situation. Not only could he play in the OF but he can also play 1st and 3rd from time to time.

  205. CB December 29th, 2009 at 10:38 pm

    “typically you never say never… but the Yankees surprisingly have. ”

    It’s exceedingly odd, isn’t it. And they have consciously decided to do that. It’s not an accident.

  206. blake December 29th, 2009 at 10:40 pm

    CB, I don’t see the Cards going to 6/110 for Holiday with Pujols looming next year. I don’t see the Red Sox going that high either.

  207. Frank December 29th, 2009 at 10:42 pm

    “why not compare how much the avg Red Sox ticket price is? or how much the Sox COULD spend but choose not to?”

    If the suggestion is Boston could survive with $200M payrolls the way the Yankees have, that’s simply ludicrous. They don’t generate near the revenues the Yankees do. Nobody does.

  208. crawdaddy December 29th, 2009 at 10:42 pm

    Pujols isn’t a free agent until 2011 because the Cardinals will pick up his option.

  209. Boston Dave - XXVII December 29th, 2009 at 10:42 pm

    CB,

    I agree. It’s definitely peculiar.

    It’s clearly a calculated move, like you said, but I still can’t figure out their rationale.

    They stayed out of the Teixeira talk and insinuated that they “couldn’t imagine” getting both he and Sabathia, but they were never as adamant as they’ve been with Holliday (or Bay).

    Stay tuned…

  210. crawdaddy December 29th, 2009 at 10:42 pm

    I meant after 2011.

  211. CB December 29th, 2009 at 10:43 pm

    “I don’t see the Cards going to 6/110 for Holiday ”

    I doubt the cards put their best offer on the table the first go around.

    If they guaranteed 5/85, I’d guess they have budgeted 6/100 to sign Holliday.

  212. PittsburghYankeeFan December 29th, 2009 at 10:43 pm

    LF just doesn’t seem like that big an issue to most clubs. I think the expectation is .270/15-20 HR/.340/.450. Just don’t do worse than that.

    If the Sox were to outright Lowell to Pawtucket, and he cleared waivers with his contract, they would clear $12 million AAV and be able to sign Beltre or Holliday, correct?

  213. Boston Dave - XXVII December 29th, 2009 at 10:45 pm

    “If the suggestion is Boston could survive with $200M payrolls the way the Yankees have, that’s simply ludicrous.”

    ———–

    ok, what are the Sox revenues?

    the suggestion was, the Sox are cheap. Saying the Yanks spent 44% more than the Sox isn’t particularly indicative of anything because it disregards the fact that the Boston brass are penny pinchers despite having the capacity and resources to spend much more.

  214. blake December 29th, 2009 at 10:45 pm

    Their rationale is by staying out of the bidding, the Cardinals or other teams have no reason to raise their bid. Its worked, it’s been weeks and only one offer is on the table and it hasn’t changed. If the Yankees really were totally out on Holliday you would think they would be trying to drive the price up for other teams. Instead they are trying their best to keep it low just in case they decide to bite.

  215. blake December 29th, 2009 at 10:50 pm

    I agree with the 6/100. I think that is about what he will sign for. If Cashman would bid 6/102 to make it an even 17 per year then I think that would get it done…

  216. Frank December 29th, 2009 at 10:50 pm

    “It’s exceedingly odd, isn’t it. And they have consciously decided to do that. It’s not an accident.”

    Have to allow for the idea they are thinking ahead a bit. I’m not talking about Crawford, but rather 2011 commitments they’ll need to make to Jeter and Rivera, plus the need to replace at least one starting pitcher, maybe two.

    Last year’s once in a decade or more spending spree was truly a matter of need. The Yankees needed that ace and they needed a highly productive middle of the order bat that provided the added bonus of playing much needed strong defense. Holliday simply isn’t a need. This team, as comprised is a significant favorite to win the AL East and pennant. Holliday would make them moreso, but he’s not necessary to achieving their objectives.

  217. murphydog December 29th, 2009 at 10:51 pm

    “If the Yankees go to Tampa with only Gardner and Hoffmann and Colin Curtis (and even Reed Johnson) then they’re essentially handing Gardner the job and he has done absolutely zero to earn that kind of status.”

    I hear you but I’d draw a different conclusion. If Gardner beats out Hoffman, Colin Curtis and maybe Johnson, then it says that the Yankees are willing to allocate only so much money to man LF and put somebody in the 9 hole in the lineup for 2010.

    The goal is to win enough games to get to the post season and then to have the pitching and defense and timely hitting to win a short series and two long series against very competitive teams. The Yankees seem to be drawing a line on spending to achieve that last incremental upgrade on offense over where they are now. They seem to be relying instead on run prevention to replace Matsui’s and Damon’s incremental (and purely offensive) contributions to games won. Cash thinks he has re-balanced the equation perfectly if not improved the team.

    If the Yankee offensive graph remains roughly flat in relation to last year, but the rotation and defense are arguably upgraded, I just don’t feel panicked about where Halladay, Holliday or any other Day(-mon) winds up.

  218. Jerkface December 29th, 2009 at 10:55 pm

    http://www.replacementlevel.co.....hp_in_2010

    SG at replacement level suggests that the Yankees as currently constructed are fine vs lefties

  219. Frank December 29th, 2009 at 10:55 pm

    “Saying the Yanks spent 44% more than the Sox isn’t particularly indicative of anything because it disregards the fact that the Boston brass are penny pinchers despite having the capacity and resources to spend much more.’

    Good point. Well, except for it being wrong.

  220. CB December 29th, 2009 at 10:55 pm

    “This team, as comprised is a significant favorite to win the AL East and pennant. Holliday would make them moreso, but he’s not necessary to achieving their objectives.”

    I agree with the first part, but the yankees objective is clearly not to win the AL East or the pennant alone. It’s to win the whole thing.

    And diminishing marginal returns become very complicated under those conditions, unless of course one believes that post season outcomes are truly random events.

  221. blake December 29th, 2009 at 10:55 pm

    Frank, you’re right. Holliday isn’t a need for the 2010 season, they could win the world series again without him. However they are going to have to address the outfield at some point unless they are comfortable with Gardner being their longterm LF’er. There is nothing in the minors on the way. Signing Holliday means that you likely won’t have to make any significant postion player moves for maybe several years (except Jeter). If they pass on Holliday then they will face this same thing again next year but with a year older core and with lesser players available. He’s not a need for 2010 but he would be a good investment in a team weakness IMO.

  222. Frank December 29th, 2009 at 10:58 pm

    “I agree with the first part, but the yankees objective is clearly not to win the AL East or the pennant alone. It’s to win the whole thing.”

    Fair enough. I believe they will go into 2010 as prohibitive favorites to win the WS as well.

  223. CB December 29th, 2009 at 10:59 pm

    It’s very difficult to know what any team can “afford” to spend as these are all privately held entities.

    I’d guess the Sox would be fine spending $200M for at least some period of time. I don’t think it’s a cash flow issue.

    The Sox literally came up with $50M cash on top of their expected payroll when they signed Dice K. You don’t just front that kind of cash unless you have the revenue to absorb the hit and the cost it has in terms of real dollar value.

    I think the bigger issue for them is the risk that spending $200M would entail. I think it’s risk at huge aggregate amounts that really limits what Boston is willing to spend.

  224. CB December 29th, 2009 at 11:03 pm

    “I believe they will go into 2010 as prohibitive favorites to win the WS as well.”

    I agree with that as well.

    The difficult question becomes is say Holliday increases the probability of winning each of the three rounds of postseason play by 2% or so. Would he be worth it?

    Off the top of my head, I think he would (financially that is). But that of course doesn’t take into account years 2-6 on his deal.

  225. Frank December 29th, 2009 at 11:06 pm

    Blake:

    I hear you, but again I suggest they are looking ahead to November 2010, when, at least on a temporary basis, SS, closer and the starting rotation become weaknesses. Think about what it might cost to re-up Jeter and Mo and then add a Cliff Lee. Probably something on the order of $50M, no? They’ve got $145M committed to players in 2011 before getting to those three. They have Hughes and Joba hitting arbitration.

    I guess it comes down to adding a luxury item or maintaining some semblance of payroll flexibility. It would seem Cash is going with the latter.

  226. ariel December 29th, 2009 at 11:07 pm

    Although I doubt that Holliday will end up in Pinstripes since he is really not needed (unlike Tex last year), and certainly not at Boras’ outrageous demands, Cashman did say last year “it would be fastasy to think we would sign both Sabathia and Teixeia at these prices”. So nothing would surprise me.

    I wonder whether Boras’ is feeling any pressure since his big guys, e.g., Holliday, Beltre, Damon are hanging out there with limited opportunities for other than Matt. But, Boras drinks his own Kool-Aid, so probably not.

  227. blake December 29th, 2009 at 11:10 pm

    Frank, think what it might cost to re-up Jeter and Mo and then add Cliff Lee and then Carl Crawford on top of that all in one off-season. Unless they are going with Gardner longterm then they are going to have to pay now or later, help isn’t on the way from the farm..Signing Holliday makes next off-season simple, re-sign Jeter and Rivera and pursue a starting pitcher. They wouldn’t need anything else..

  228. austinmac December 29th, 2009 at 11:11 pm

    I just watched Holliday hitting on the MLB Hot Stove show. His power is to right and right center. I can still imagine it, can’t I?

  229. RM December 29th, 2009 at 11:16 pm

    Only 2 days left for Aroldis Chapman to save millions in Taxes by signing in 2009 instead of 2010. I wonder if Cashman is going to pounce on this opportunity.

  230. Bronx Jeers December 29th, 2009 at 11:16 pm

    Why would the Cards have to increase their offer at all?

    I haven’t heard of any other offer beyond the Sox who have apparently pulled it off the table.

    If I’m the Cards I might be inclined to call Matt/Scott and say you’ve got 72 hours.

    If the Cards pull their offer, what team would step in and offer a higher proposal?

    If anything, the price goes down without the Cards.

  231. aaron December 29th, 2009 at 11:20 pm

    Rick Ankiel for a year

  232. Frank December 29th, 2009 at 11:20 pm

    “Only 2 days left for Aroldis Chapman to save millions in Taxes by signing in 2009 instead of 2010. I wonder if Cashman is going to pounce on this opportunity”

    His management not know this? Logistically, getting this done in 48 hours and 40 minutes seems almost impossible.

  233. Boston Dave - XXVII December 29th, 2009 at 11:20 pm

    “Good point. Well, except for it being wrong.”

    ———

    Frank.

    must be nice to dictate what is right and wrong when you don’t answer any questions you’re asked or present any facts to support your confrontational responses. There’s an obvious explanation for your ‘misunderstanding’ but I’m afraid there’s no nice way of putting it.

    Maybe one day I’ll dumb myself down and accommodate your responses… but tonight’s not the night.

  234. ariel December 29th, 2009 at 11:21 pm

    Austinmac,

    There is little doubt that Holliday would be an awesome addition especially since his power alley is to right center. Batting in the five-hole protecting Arod would be fantastic. Will Cash ask the boys to pony up the bucks? Doubtful, but definitely desirable from a fan’s perspective. Heck, it’s not my money, what’s a couple extra mil in luxury tax!!

  235. Boston Dave - XXVII December 29th, 2009 at 11:22 pm

    “I’d guess the Sox would be fine spending $200M for at least some period of time. I don’t think it’s a cash flow issue.

    The Sox literally came up with $50M cash on top of their expected payroll when they signed Dice K. You don’t just front that kind of cash unless you have the revenue to absorb the hit and the cost it has in terms of real dollar value.”

    ————-

    while I agree with this, I probably shouldn’t say so. I don’t want Frank to tell me how wrong I am again.

    of course, I’ve seen what the Sox revenue is and it’s north of $200M.

  236. David in Cal December 29th, 2009 at 11:23 pm

    Another possible free agent who might be signed to play left field in 2011 is Derek Jeter. By then he might be too slow to play SS. If so, it would be great to have a position open that he could switch to.

  237. 86w183 December 29th, 2009 at 11:24 pm

    No one, not even the Yankees can have everything they want or would like to have. Unquestionably Holliday would make the Yankees even better, but unless Jeter, Pettite and Rivera all retire after the 2010 season the Yanks would be tied up financially for the foreseeable future.

    There’s nothing wrong with them going into 2010 as is with the money in reserve to add apiece if Gardner/Hoffman cannot get it done in LF.

    That said, I would be more comfortable with Matsui as the DH instead of Nick Johnson, but it might work out.

  238. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 11:26 pm

    There’s another way to create payroll flexibility. Perhaps Jeter and Mo can accept less in their new deals, recognizing that they are probably entering a period of diminishing performances.

  239. Frank December 29th, 2009 at 11:28 pm

    “If I’m the Cards I might be inclined to call Matt/Scott and say you’ve got 72 hours”

    Wonder whether the Cardinals might be willing to acknowledge their guy is better than Bay and say “We’ll guarantee 5 at the $16.75M with an easily attainable 6th year option which could push the deal to 6 and $100M.” In the end, it’s not all that far off of what they’re offering now (option for 6th year on their present offer would run it to $95M). So for $5M more over six years, they can say “We’re paying you more than Bay and you’ll get the only 9 figure deal this FA season”. It would be a tremendous show of goodwill by the Cards at a reasonable cost.

  240. Boston Dave - XXVII December 29th, 2009 at 11:28 pm

    not sure if this article was mentioned already, but it speaks to CB’s point about “increasing the probablity” of winning in the playoffs and the cost/benefit of a Holliday signing.

    http://riveraveblues.com/2009/.....010-21809/

  241. Boston Dave - XXVII December 29th, 2009 at 11:30 pm

    “The Cardinals will present Matt Holliday with an offer worth about $16 million a season, according to MLB.com… What is intriguing about the proposal is its reported length — possibly as long as an eight-year commitment, according to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. ”

    - rotoworld.com and MLB.com

  242. Dave December 29th, 2009 at 11:32 pm

    “There’s another way to create payroll flexibility. Perhaps Jeter and Mo can accept less in their new deals, recognizing that they are probably entering a period of diminishing performances.”

    I wish. No way they are taking a discount. They know we can spend $200 million dollars in a sport with no salary cap. They are also iconic figures who have seen little performance slippage.

    Why should they take a discount when we have proven that money is no object to us? One conservative off-season isin’t going to change that perception.

  243. Frank December 29th, 2009 at 11:32 pm

    “of course, I’ve seen what the Sox revenue is and it’s north of $200M.”

    Yes it is. The Yankees is north of $350M. Revenues are what drive the payrolls. If Boston is generating 70% of what the Yankees are in terms of revenue, why would a payroll that is roughly 70% of what the Yankees is be in anyway out of line or, as you suggest, cheap? Are the Yankees cheap too?

  244. stuckey December 29th, 2009 at 11:32 pm

    “Crawford doesn’t get on base enough to be a 1 or 2 hitter for the Yankees.”

    I’m no huge fan of Crawford, but I have a personality flaw that doesn’t let me pass over outrageously stupid statements.

    Did Carl Crawford not bat 2nd for the 2008 AL representative in the World Series, or was I hallucinating again?

    Now getting to the WS isn’t “good enough” for the Yankees?

  245. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 11:33 pm

    The 8 year deal was first floated about a month ago.

  246. Frank December 29th, 2009 at 11:36 pm

    BD:

    That doesn’t seem like much of a departure from the Cardinal offer that’s been on the table for at least a couple weeks. That one is supposedly 5 guaranteed years at $16M per with three option years.

    Maybe fewer option years, more guaranteed?

  247. Betsy - high on pie December 29th, 2009 at 11:39 pm

    Matt Holliday would be a devastating addition to the lineup, but at this point I think we need to admit that it’s not going to happen. Even without him, we have a hell of a lineup and a heck of a team and I guess Cash and Hal feel the same way. It’s easy for us just to say that we should sign him, but it’s a lot more complicated for those two as they have other issues to take into consideration. I think Cash and Hal are very wary of getting into a situation where the team has too many unwieldy, long-term, expensive contracts to deal with. That is at the heart of the matter, I think. They may like Holliday, maybe even a lot (who knows?), but they may think that the OF is their best way of adding youth and flexibility (as the INF is set for years to come). They don’t want to become an old, immobile team – when Cash said he wanted to become young and more athletic, he meant it.

  248. Boston Dave - XXVII December 29th, 2009 at 11:40 pm

    “Are the Yankees cheap too?”

    ———–

    despite their higher revenue, the Yanks still spent a considerably larger % of that revenue on team payroll and luxury tax than the Sox did.

    The Sox have the resources to spend much more than they do.

    And back to my original point – comparing the Sox payroll to the Yanks payroll as evidence to support either side of the luxury tax debate isn’t all that prudent. How much the Sox “choose” to spend shouldn’t dictate how much the Yankees are taxed for their payroll. If you want to bring in other teams to the equation, so be it. The Sox aren’t the team to drive that argument.

  249. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2009 at 11:40 pm

    “I’m no huge fan of Crawford, but I have a personality flaw that doesn’t let me pass over outrageously stupid statements.”

    Phil can defend himself, but I don’t appreciate people insulting my friends.

    Crawford’s OBP in 2008 was .319 (ISO D = .046). Cash has publicly stated that he wants to build this team around grinders; guys that wear pitchers out by the 6th or 7th inning, forcing the opposing manager to go to the soft underbelly of his bullpen.

    Just because a team can win with Crawford (because he is a good player), it doesn’t mean that he fits the Yankees’ idea of a top of the order hitter.

    That is probably Phil’s point, and it’s eminently reasonable.

  250. Boston Dave - XXVII December 29th, 2009 at 11:42 pm

    “That doesn’t seem like much of a departure from the Cardinal offer that’s been on the table for at least a couple weeks. That one is supposedly 5 guaranteed years at $16M per with three option years.”

    ———–

    true. perhaps the only negotiation left will be with the option years.

  251. Frank December 29th, 2009 at 11:42 pm

    “must be nice to dictate what is right and wrong when you don’t answer any questions you’re asked or present any facts to support your confrontational responses. There’s an obvious explanation for your ‘misunderstanding’ but I’m afraid there’s no nice way of putting it.”

    Sorry Dave, I must have missed the set of facts you laid out.

  252. 57' Yankee December 29th, 2009 at 11:48 pm

    Don’t need a Holliday ! Avg. hitting player with good defense and some speed will do just fine !

    Maybe Gardner, maybe a Gomes or a combo of Hoffman and either of the first 2. Either way Gardner remains as defensive of’er and p-runner. Reed Johnson ?

  253. Pat M., December 29th, 2009 at 11:53 pm

    Holliday has outstanding power to right / right center…..I still remember that missle he hit at The Stadium in the 2008 All-Star Game, as it whistled over my head……

  254. EdWhitson December 29th, 2009 at 11:57 pm

    8 years for Holliday ? Good luck with that St. Louis! I would not sign God for 8 years, let alone Matt Holliday.

  255. NYYk9005 December 29th, 2009 at 11:57 pm

    This is what pisses me off…

    We can get Holliday AND Damon AND Nady AND EVERYONEEEEEEEEE,
    but what would that do?

    All the success we have planned can evaporate in one short losing streak in October. Off with the best of 5 ALDS format of doom!

  256. stuckey December 29th, 2009 at 11:58 pm

    “Phil can defend himself, but I don’t appreciate people insulting my friends.”

    Smart, reasonable people can say stupid things. I’m certainly guilty of it from time to time.

    I called the statement stupid, deliberately.

    “Cash has publicly stated that he wants to build this team around grinders; guys that wear pitchers out by the 6th or 7th inning, forcing the opposing manager to go to the soft underbelly of his bullpen.”

    Understood, but there are more than one way to skin a cat.

    Don’t you think Crawford’s presence as a basestealing threat has the “grind” effect on pitchers?

  257. NYYk9005 December 29th, 2009 at 11:58 pm

    8 years for Holliday ? Good luck with that St. Louis! I would not sign God for 8 years, let alone Matt Holliday.
    ___________

    We signed ARod to 10!!

  258. Bronx Jeers December 30th, 2009 at 12:03 am

    “Holliday has outstanding power to right / right center…..I still remember that missle he hit at The Stadium in the 2008 All-Star Game, as it whistled over my head……”

    It is better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all?

  259. EdWhitson December 30th, 2009 at 12:08 am

    Two wrongs, don’t make a right.

  260. Jason December 30th, 2009 at 12:14 am

    Holliday would be overkill. It just wouldn’t be fair to the rest of baseball. Do we really want our 28th title to be that easy?

    At least with Gardner in left, the playing field is a little more leveled because we’d have an automatic out in there. If we get Holliday, then a .320/25 HR hitter will be batting 9th.

    That just isin’t fair. We are the WS champs, do we really need to finish the 2010 baseball season before it even starts for the other 29 teams?

  261. backbench December 30th, 2009 at 12:24 am

    David in Cal

    December 29th, 2009 at 11:23 pm

    “Another possible free agent who might be signed to play left field in 2011 is Derek Jeter. By then he might be too slow to play SS. If so, it would be great to have a position open that he could switch to.”

    This idea keeps popping up. Cashman has shown a grasp of multi-year strategic thinking. What about this? Why would the FO sign Holiday to a long term deal if that is where they see DJ going in a year or two?

  262. Rich in NJ December 30th, 2009 at 12:31 am

    “I called the statement stupid, deliberately.”

    That’s sad…and more importantly, unhelpful to spawning an informed debate.

    “Don’t you think Crawford’s presence as a basestealing threat has the “grind” effect on pitchers?”

    I think it’s distracting, but it would be far more so if he got on base more.

  263. jake December 30th, 2009 at 12:33 am

    What is our lineup going to look like guys? Now that Jason Bay was signed, it made me think about who’s going to be playing left field and who will be batting behind Arod?
    1. jeter
    2. Nick Johnson
    3. Teixeira
    4. Arod
    5. Posada
    6. Cano
    7. Swisher
    8. Granderson
    9. Reed Johnson/Brett Gardner/LF replacement (unless we splurge, WHICH WE SHOULD, and get Holliday who would bat behind arod, our replacement bats last)

    WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK!?

  264. RM December 30th, 2009 at 12:36 am

    Frank
    December 29th, 2009 at 11:20 pm
    “Only 2 days left for Aroldis Chapman to save millions in Taxes by signing in 2009 instead of 2010. I wonder if Cashman is going to pounce on this opportunity”

    His management not know this? Logistically, getting this done in 48 hours and 40 minutes seems almost impossible.
    ———————
    I think his management dropped the ball when he changed agents. I don’t know if the Yankees are far enough along in the talks with Chapman to pull this off. But the Yankees are probably the only team likely to be able to rustle up $10-20 Million in less than 2 days. They don’t have to finalize the contract they just need to agree in pricincle and pay him a lot of money in 2009.

  265. Phil the Thrill December 30th, 2009 at 12:48 am

    stuckey,

    Crawford has a career .335 OBP. That’s not a good on base guy. He can steal all his bases batting ninth if we sign him.

  266. RalphieD (OPPC) December 30th, 2009 at 12:50 am

    “Matt Holliday would be a devastating addition to the lineup, but at this point I think we need to admit that it’s not going to happen. Even without him, we have a hell of a lineup and a heck of a team and I guess Cash and Hal feel the same way. It’s easy for us just to say that we should sign him, but it’s a lot more complicated for those two as they have other issues to take into consideration. I think Cash and Hal are very wary of getting into a situation where the team has too many unwieldy, long-term, expensive contracts to deal with. That is at the heart of the matter, I think. They may like Holliday, maybe even a lot (who knows?), but they may think that the OF is their best way of adding youth and flexibility (as the INF is set for years to come). They don’t want to become an old, immobile team – when Cash said he wanted to become young and more athletic, he meant it.”

    very good points betsy i agree on all fronts

  267. stuckey December 30th, 2009 at 12:52 am

    “I think it’s distracting, but it would be far more so if he got on base more.”

    I’ve heard numerous former pitchers suggest that the number of pitchers thrown is less of factor than the stress the pitches are thrown under.

    And saying his detrimental effect on pitchers would be greater if he got on base more is a transparent slight of hand. This applies to ALL players, not just Crawford. And of course can be done in reverse for all players and their baserunning abilities, but that would be intellectually dishonest.

    The ACTUAL point is some players stress pitchers in DIFFERENT ways. As an advocate of informed debate, this point shouldn’t be hard to acknowledge, as should be the point that Crawford’s offensive abilities has PROVEN to be conducive to team success.

  268. Phil the Thrill December 30th, 2009 at 12:56 am

    stuckey,

    teams featuring Crawford’s dazzling array of pitcher stressing moves have made the post season all of 1 time in his 8 years of stressing out pitchers in the bigs.

  269. yankeeman0 December 30th, 2009 at 12:57 am

    I don’t get all this love for Holliday, he is little more than a Coors Field inflation. Unless your going to pin all his success for his 60 games in STL (and if you do then please remember his pedestrian 90 games in OAK) he has clearly shown himself to be a monster at home (in Col) and nothing more than decent on the road. Check his Home/Away splits and you’ll want to run the other way:

    AB R HR RBI OPS
    Home 1651 337 100 375 1.052
    Away 1587 236 52 217 0.808

    Just to put it in perspective, L. Overbay (.812), A. Huff (.821), M. Lowell (.810) have similar numbers. Is Holiday better than those players…OFCOURSE…but he is not I repeat NOT the guy we need for left. We can piecemeal LF with a platoon of Gardner and RJohnson/Hairston/or someone like that and save the roster flexibility to add some big pieces the following yr. I’m not against spending $100M plus on another player to add to the payroll but lets spend it on the Teixeira’s and CC’s of the world (Great players in the game) and let someone else spend top notch $$ on a very good not great player. (lastly for comparison Teixeira’s career OPS is .923)

  270. ortforshort December 30th, 2009 at 12:59 am

    If Holliday were the player everyone imagines he is, then he would be worth a look as the Yankees have a big hole in the #5 spot in the lineup. However, his career numbers are way skewed because he played in Colorado and then he tanked in Oakland. He’s not a huge power guy even given his Colorado numbers and he doesn’t bring a whole lot else to the table such as “D” and speed. He’s just not worth that much and good luck in St.Louis. I like a multi-tooled player like Crawford for 2011. The Yankees have a better lineup than Boston right now without Holliday. Its when you get to the World Series and the Phillies that they weaker Yankee lineup is a problem.

  271. Phil the Thrill December 30th, 2009 at 1:00 am

    The OPS+ and wRC+ numbers were all park adjusted.

  272. YankeeRay December 30th, 2009 at 1:09 am

    Boston Dave, not sure if you are still here but my thinking is that by saying they are definitely not in it that might keep the Sox from wanting to jump in. Kind of hoping that neither one gets in. They don’t need to drive the price up on the Cards but if Boston seemed interested then I bet the Yanks wouldn’t be saying that.
    It’s also not an entitlement for a Yankee fan to want an all star at every position it’s just that Holliday is a perfect fit all star or not.
    The only all stars we will have are Jeter, Tex and Arod which is still alot but not over the top and thats because Girardi will be picking. Of course Mo and CC could make it as pitchers but thats no more than the Angels or Sox have had.
    I enjoy your comments.

  273. stuckey December 30th, 2009 at 1:12 am

    “Crawford has a career .335 OBP. That’s not a good on base guy. He can steal all his bases batting ninth if we sign him.”

    True, but last year it was .364, and it has been at or over .348 for 3 of the last 4 years and has steadily increased each year he’s been in the league (the last year’s .319 being the outlier in a year he was injured part of the year).

    You give me a guy who gets on at a .350+ clip, has .360+ potential (Damon was what, .365 last year and was at .351 not 2 years ago), and effectively is good for 100-110 extra bases while stressing the pitcher, and I think it’s ridiculous to say he can’t bat #2 for anybody.

  274. stuckey December 30th, 2009 at 1:17 am

    “teams featuring Crawford’s dazzling array of pitcher stressing moves have made the post season all of 1 time in his 8 years of stressing out pitchers in the bigs.”

    And I suppose that has little to do Tampa’s pitching in most of those years, right?

    I’m really getting schooled on informed debate this evening.

    Crawford’s OBP was .364 in 2009. Damon’s was .365.

    Your point was what again?

  275. bardos December 30th, 2009 at 1:31 am

    maybe the yankees really are out on matt holliday, but strategy usually indicates that if you’re out you say you’re in so as to raise the price for the other team, and if you’re in you say you’re out so as to have the opposite effect. so does saying they’re out mean they’re in or is this not hype?

  276. BJK December 30th, 2009 at 1:59 am

    “Another possible free agent who might be signed to play left field in 2011 is Derek Jeter. By then he might be too slow to play SS. If so, it would be great to have a position open that he could switch to.”

    This idea keeps popping up. Cashman has shown a grasp of multi-year strategic thinking. What about this? Why would the FO sign Holiday to a long term deal if that is where they see DJ going in a year or two?

    ——————————————————

    Jeter just won a Gold Glove. Is he the best defensive SS in the league? No. Does he get the job done? I would say so.

    Jeter is in great shape and has an incredible work ethic. He worked his tail off to improve defensively in the off season and it showed.

    He’ll have to show a heck of a decline in 2010 to be displaced to LF in 2011. Personally, I don’t see that happening.

    Everyone talks about how hard Mo will be to replace when he finally decides to hang it up. People are complaining about Gardner batting 9th? What do you think Jeter’s replacement will look like?

    I don’t understand the rush to get Jeter off of short and Joba or Hughes replacing Mo. Jeter and Mo are inhuman. Unless tragedy strikes, neither is going anywhere for the next 3 years at least.

  277. CR9 December 30th, 2009 at 2:00 am

    “Trust is a must

    For ESPN, a little transparency could go a long way in reinforcing viewers’ faith”

    This is from an article by the ESPN Ombudsman regarding ESPN.

    First, I can’t think of anybody that would trust ESPN, aside from a fan of any Boston team.

    And regarding the transparency, ESPN is as transparent as they come, and they reinforce many viewer’s belief that they are NESPN.

  278. Tom B December 30th, 2009 at 2:16 am

    I think Bret needs to get a hobby.

  279. CR9 December 30th, 2009 at 2:33 am

    A network that employs a guy named Pierre LeBrun.

    The loose translation of that is :

    Peter the Bruin.

    Is that an alias for Peter Gammons?

  280. crawdaddy December 30th, 2009 at 3:55 am

    “There’s another way to create payroll flexibility. Perhaps Jeter and Mo can accept less in their new deals, recognizing that they are probably entering a period of diminishing performances.”

    Would you accept less? I know I wouldn’t.

  281. bru December 30th, 2009 at 5:06 am

    i would not do a 6 year deal with holliday

    5 yrs tops

    5 years is bad enough

    all i am saying is if given the choice between holliday & crawford i take holliday every time

    we won with run producers & obp players not table setters,lux tax threshold went up,our payroll is down,we won the ws,09 revenues were great in a major recession & we are cutting payroll???

  282. Gil L December 30th, 2009 at 5:09 am

    i don’t see the yanks going after crawford.

    next post season is cliff lee all the way

    (plus perhaps a trade for josh johnson if it’s not too costy)

  283. Phil the Thrill December 30th, 2009 at 7:53 am

    .364 was Crawford’s first pretty good OBP (.360 is the minimum number the Yanks want to see with everyone. .348 is too low, they wouldn’t bat him up there. They just replaced Damon’s .365 in the lineup with Nick Johnson’s .424, so you can see which way they are headed.

    Yes, Tampa has a history of bad pitching and Crawford has a history of not getting on base at a good rate.

  284. Rich in NJ December 30th, 2009 at 7:54 am

    “Crawford’s OBP was .364 in 2009. Damon’s was .365.

    Your point was what again?”

    The one your missing is sample size:

    Career ISO D:

    Crawford: .040

    Damon: .067

    Let’s see Crawford repeat his .059 2009 ISO D.

    (btw, Damon’s was .083 in 2009)

  285. Rich in NJ December 30th, 2009 at 7:58 am

    “Would you accept less? I know I wouldn’t.”

    I’ll rephrase:

    The issue really is: should the Yankees pay either of them more than they could make on the open market, particularly in terms of years?

    My answer would be an emphatic no.

  286. Rick December 30th, 2009 at 8:07 am

    The Yankees win 10 games without Holliday…how many more will they win with him…..give gardner 450 ab’s he will hit .250-.260….but will steal 45 bases….holliday will not add that much anyway….crawford will never be a yankee…don’t won’t have the money for him next year…jeter will get big money

  287. Rick December 30th, 2009 at 8:07 am

    correction 100 games

  288. Betsy - high on pie December 30th, 2009 at 8:27 am

    Heyman said on MLB Hot Stove that the Yankees are looking to do a 1 year deal. That either means they are aiming for Crawford next year or they don’t see anyone this year that they want to give a multiple years to. Every other position on the field is basically set in stone – leaving LF as sort of a swing-position allows them to maneuver a bit. I’m just guessing this is their thinking. The point is, if they thought Holliday was worth going over budget, they would…….but they don’t.

  289. Ross December 30th, 2009 at 8:31 am

    December 30th, 2009 at 2:33 am
    A network that employs a guy named Pierre LeBrun.

    The loose translation of that is :

    Peter the Bruin.

    Is that an alias for Peter Gammons?

    ****************

    Sorry……..(since I’m a francophone)…….that would be ‘Peter the Brown’. If it was a bear it would be ‘Pierre L’Ours’

    Cheers!

  290. Roger(live from Amsterdam) December 30th, 2009 at 8:31 am

    Betsy,

    Nady makes the most sense then,right??

  291. SmackethDowneth December 30th, 2009 at 8:33 am

    Maybe “LeBrun” refers to his teeth?

  292. upstate kate December 30th, 2009 at 8:36 am

    I agree Betsy, I don’t think Holliday is in the picture. Maybe the Yankees are saving up for Cliff Lee next year.

  293. Betsy - high on pie December 30th, 2009 at 8:37 am

    Roger, I don’t think I can endorse a player (a non-pitcher no less) who’s had two TJ surgeries…I’m not even sure he’ll be ready for the start of the season.

  294. Rich in NJ December 30th, 2009 at 8:38 am

    Nady does make sense IF his elbow is recovered and he would except a contract with a low base salary and incentives.

    We don’t know that either is likely.

    I was brought around on him when I saw that his OBP (and ISO D) is good v. LHP (it stinks v. RHP).

  295. Rich in NJ December 30th, 2009 at 8:39 am

    “I agree Betsy, I don’t think Holliday is in the picture. Maybe the Yankees are saving up for Cliff Lee next year.”

    Beckett.

  296. Betsy - high on pie December 30th, 2009 at 8:41 am

    Kate, that’s probable, but if the Yankees thought Holliday were worth it, they’d go over budget for him. He’s going to be something of a bargain now, but it’s still a long-ish, expensive contract and it’s clear that Cashman values flexibility, which signing Holliday wouldn’t provide. He’s always thinking two steps ahead, so I’m sure he’s making a list of who will be available next year (assuming either they don’t get or are not interested in Crawford)……Cash may not be thrilled with the options this year, which would explain why he’s only seeking to do a 1 year deal (if Heyman is right).

  297. upstate kate December 30th, 2009 at 8:41 am

    Beckett? He hasn’t seemed as dominant the past few years…I would rather go for Lee.

  298. Roger(live from Amsterdam) December 30th, 2009 at 8:42 am

    Besty,what’s you guess then?

    Please don’t say Johnson,Gomez or Hairston..

  299. Betsy - high on pie December 30th, 2009 at 8:42 am

    I meant to add that they’d go over budget for Holliday even if they were saving for Lee.

    Rich, I disagree. If they are saving their $$$ for anyone (and I don’t know that they are), it’s Lee…..not Beckett. That said, I absolutely have no interest in giving Lee 5 or 6 years at $20 million plus.

  300. Betsy - high on pie December 30th, 2009 at 8:43 am

    Roger, I don’t have one……..I hope Hairston returns, but as a utility player, not a a full-time LF

  301. pat December 30th, 2009 at 8:45 am

    Betsy

    Pitchers come back from TJ surgery and throw 95 mph with pinpoint accuracy.

    Nady only has to be able to hit the broadside of barn with average velocity.

    Damon without TJ surgery was barely able to do that and Gardner who seems to be the in house solution has thrown an occasional lawn dart in his short playing career.

    The bar is not that high for Nady to jump over.

  302. Roger(live from Amsterdam) December 30th, 2009 at 8:48 am

    I think the Yankees missed out on Cameron.He would have been a nice fit

  303. MTU December 30th, 2009 at 8:49 am

    2011 MLB Free Agents
    By Tim Dierkes [September 21, 2009 at 11:00pm CST]
    2011 MLB free agents – MLBTR’s up-to-date list is below. These are players who are eligible for free agency after the 2010 season. The player’s 2011 age is in parentheses and Scott Boras clients are bolded. Players on the current free agent list are not on this one. If you have any corrections or omissions, please contact us.
    Left fielders
    Eric Byrnes (35)
    Carl Crawford (29)
    David DeJesus (31) – $6MM club option with a $500K buyout
    Willie Harris (33)
    Jason Kubel (29) – $5.25MM club option with a $350K buyout
    Jason Michaels (35)
    Manny Ramirez (39)

    Center fielders
    Willie Bloomquist (33)
    Coco Crisp (31) – $5.75MM option with a $575K buyout
    Jody Gerut (33)
    Willie Harris (33)
    Andruw Jones (34)
    Mark Kotsay (35)
    Jason Michaels (35)
    Corey Patterson (31)
    Willy Taveras (29)

    Right fielders
    Willie Bloomquist (33)
    Jose Guillen (35)
    Brad Hawpe (32) – $10MM club option with a $500K buyout
    Gabe Kapler (35)
    Magglio Ordonez (37) – $15MM club option vests with 135 starts or 540 plate appearances in 2010
    Jayson Werth (32)

  304. Rich in NJ December 30th, 2009 at 8:52 am

    Betsy

    Hairston is awful in the OF.

  305. Rich in NJ December 30th, 2009 at 8:55 am

    Betsy

    I’m actually being sarcastic, at least partially. The Yankees need to force the RS to pay him over $20m a year.

    Roger(live from Amsterdam)

    That’s why the RS gave him two years. The Yankees weren’t going to do that.

  306. GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2009 at 9:12 am

    Nady has trouble hitting anything with a wrinkle in it. AL pitchers learned than after about 3 weeks in the AL in 2008. Pass.

  307. Patrick from CT December 30th, 2009 at 9:14 am

    The Yankees will probably sign a guy like Hairston that can play infield and outfield to spell A-Rod at 3rd and platoon with Gardy.
    That rule 5 kid Hoffman is going to get his shot in the spring to make the team.
    If the Yankee need another bat during the season, Cash will go get one.
    They are not going to sign another high $$ big name at this time; Cash is telling the truth this time…

  308. Bob December 30th, 2009 at 9:18 am

    I believe Damon is coming back, it will take some time and he’ll have to accept much less, but he will be back. AT least I hope

  309. GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2009 at 9:21 am

    If Hairston is the third base option, NYY had better hope Rodriguez plays in 162 games.

  310. Betsy -high on pie December 30th, 2009 at 9:21 am

    Rich, I still want Hairston back…….I didn’t say as an OF

  311. Will December 30th, 2009 at 9:24 am

    My previous attempt at posting appears not to have gone through. Please accept my apologies if this becomes a double post.

    Murphydog, as someone who usually enjoys all your interesting and often humorous posts, I have to say that I find your gratuitous comments directed at the “socialist” European system as completely unnecessary and certainly ill informed.

    As the European sales manager for a large American company, I’ve lived in Europe for the last 25 years and I have had the opportunity to see both the positive and negative sides of the European lifestyle versus that of America. Frankly, Americans should have some things so good as we have it here in the more advanced economies of Europe.

    Murphydog, someone as highly intelligent as you should know better than to make an assessment about a place without having lived there for any appreciable length of time.

    “Why isn’t that ok anymore? I say out with the proto-socialists in baseball. It’s the American Game, not the French or English or Italian game.”

    Oh, and by the way, there is currently NO salary cap on professional European soccer clubs at the moment, though it is being discussed in the same manner as some baseball owners are in America – please see following;

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html

  312. Patrick from CT December 30th, 2009 at 9:34 am

    Jerry Hairston seems to fit on the Yankees roster and budget. He can play LF in place of Gardy on the days they face a tough lefty; he can play RF when Swish is slumping, and he can play 3rd on the days A-Rod rests. He’s also got some speed for pinch running. Hairston is a good vet to have on the bench; I don’t think it’s wise to have all kids on the bench.
    If Hoffman does not stick the Yankee will go get a power bat like Heinski at the trade dead line just like last year.
    Right now on paper the Yankees have great pitching and a great line up; there is only depth to be added.

  313. Boston Dave - XXVII December 30th, 2009 at 10:02 am

    I’m still a fan of signing Marlon Byrd. He can sit occasionally against right-handers to give Gardy some PT.

    Byrd is a legit .280, 20HR guy and could be had within the Yanks budget.

    Though I’d still prefer Damon on a cheap deal, Byrd would more than suffice.

  314. crawdaddy December 30th, 2009 at 10:28 am

    “The issue really is: should the Yankees pay either of them more than they could make on the open market, particularly in terms of years?”

    If that’s what they can get from the Yankees then the answer is yes.

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