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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Twelve days that mattered in 2009

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 31, 2009 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

This isn’t intended to be some sort of ranking of the Yankees’ most important dates of the past year. Instead, it is simply a look back at some of the days that mattered. One day from each month. Not necessarily the most important days, but certainly days that stood out or made a difference.

January
Monday, 1-26-09
Andy Pettitte returns on a one-year deal
“There was basically a point where we got to where we were at the end of the line,” Pettitte said that day. “I needed to make a decision.” He never talked to another team and his decision was ultimately to come back to New York to chase another championship. Eleven months later, it’s hard to imagine where the Yankees would have been without him.

February
Tuesday, 2-17-09
The Alex Rodriguez press conference
Here’s a line from Rodriguez’s opening statement that day: ”In the days ahead, I know that a lot of people are going to debate my past with various opinions. People are going to talk about my future as though it’s already been determined, however, I realize that these opinions are out of my control. What is within my control is going out and doing the job that I am blessed to do. Spring training represents a new start for me and a chance to win a championship, two opportunities I’m very excited about.”

March
Sunday, 3-29-09
Brett Gardner named opening day center fielder

It’s interesting, given the current Yankees roster, to remember that the Yankees opened this championship season with Gardner as the No. 9 hitter in their starting lineup. If the current roster were to stay as it is, Gardner would likely open in the same spot in the order, but playing left field instead of center, which actually suggests a defensive upgrade for the Yankees.

April
Wednesday, 4-22-09
Melky Cabrera homers in season’s first walk-off win

The first win at the new Yankee Stadium came five days before this one, but in a season of whipped cream pies, what could be more momentous than Cabrera’s walk-off blast in the 14th inning? And it went to right field, which is a whole other story from this season. Six Yankees relievers combined for 7.1 scoreless innings, including Jose Veras, who pitched the last 3.1. Cabrera’s game-winner came off Oakland reliever Dan Giese, who had been claimed off waivers from the Yankees just a few weeks earlier. It was the first of 15 walk-off wins.

May
Wednesday, 5-13-09
Winning streak puts Yankees above .500 for good

Four days after Alex Rodriguez rejoined the lineup, the Yankees entered May 13 two games below .500, but they beat the Blue Jays that night and kicked off a nine-game winning streak. It was their longest streak of the season, and it bumped the Yankees from 6.5 games out of first place, to a game and a half back. With no Derek Jeter, Hideki Matsui or Jorge Posada in the lineup that night, the Yankees got hits from Ramiro Pena and Francisco Cervelli, and got a home run and a triple from Brett Gardner. The win went to — who else? — Andy Pettitte.

June
Monday, 6-1-09
Yankees set consecutive errorless games record
In a win against Cleveland, the Yankees scored five runs on six hits while committing no errors. It was the Yankees 18th consecutive game without an error, which set a new major league record. During the streak, the Yankees handled 660 chances without a mistake. Another note from June 1: It was Joba Chamberlain’s return to bug-infested Cleveland, and he went eight innings, allowing two runs on four hits.

July
Friday, 7-3-09
Phil Hughes sets up for Mariano Rivera

A starter through the first two months of the season, and a middle/long reliever through the month of June, Hughes moved into his setup role on the third day of July. Phil Coke got the lefty Adam Lind for the first out of the eighth inning, then Hughes got the last two outs before Rivera closed the door. In that moment, the back of the bullpen was solidified. The Yankees finally had their bridge to Mo.

August
Friday, 8-7-09
Yankees trade for Chad Gaudin

Chien-Ming Wang was out of the picture. Joba Chamberlain was about to be reduced to three-inning starts. Sergio Mitre was talking a tightrope. Josh Towers was on his way up from Triple-A. The Yankees badly needed a pitcher who could give multiple innings out of the bullpen or spot start when necessary, and Gaudin played the role perfectly. He started six times, and the Yankees won all six.

September
Friday, 9-11-09
Derek Jeter becomes Yankees career hits leader

This was the official statement from George Steinbrenner: “For those who say today’s game can’t produce legendary players, I have two words: Derek Jeter. Game in and game out, he just produces. As historic and significant as becoming the Yankees’ all-time hit leader is, the accomplishment is all the more impressive because Derek is one of the finest young men playing the game today.”

October
Thursday, 10-29-09
A.J. Burnett delivers in Game 2 of the World Series

Given a chance to clinch the title four days later, Burnett took a beating in Game 5 and was vilified, but let us not forget his performance in Game 2. This was the turning point of the World Series. Pedro Martinez pitched very well that day, and a loss would have meant going into Philadelphia, down two games to none, forced to sweep in Citizens Bank Park. It never came to that because Burnett gave the Yankees seven superb innings, striking out nine, walking two and allowing four hits. In the grand scheme of things, this was a bigger game than Game 5, and Burnett was outstanding.

November
Wednesday, 11-4-09
No. 27

If I put some real effort into it, I might have come up with a date more obvious that this one. Instead, I picked a night you might remember. Six RBI from the World Series MVP. Five outs from the game’s greatest closer. A fourth playoff win from the game’s winningest postseason pitcher. Three hits from the Captain. Two runs scored by the rejuvenated A-Rod. One World Series championship.

December
Tuesday, 12-8-09
Yankees agree to trade for Curtis Granderson

The Andy Pettitte signing a day later was big, but it was the Granderson trade that set the tone for the Yankees’ offseason. Had they not traded for a power-hitting outfielder, would the Yankees have been more likely to keep either Johnny Damon or Hideki Matsui? Maybe. Instead, they have a new center fielder, entering his prime, trying to defend a championship. I’m sure expectations won’t be high. He’s only playing Joe DiMaggio’s position.

 
 

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292 Responses to “Twelve days that mattered in 2009”

  1. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 31st, 2009 at 9:22 am

    MTU: :)

    don’t forget Delmon Young. He seems like a good kid, but if the umpire gives us any crap with the stike zone he will be on our side

  2. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 31st, 2009 at 9:23 am

    If Pettite got his salary DOUBLED because of what he did last year why is giving damon 8 or 9 million (a paycut)out of the question? Jamie Hoffman? please don’t insult the New York Yankees like that Mr Cashman!!!
    —————————————-
    different situations. also,

    i knew Andy Pettitte. And let me tell you, damon is no Andy Pettitte

  3. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day December 31st, 2009 at 9:29 am

    Chad, I would put Alex’s return to the lineup and his HR in his first at bat on the list, but otherwise – fantastic job.

    Amazingly, people remember AJ’s game 5 performance almost as much as they remember game 2 – in fact, it almost seems they care more about the game 5. However, he came up aces in by far the biggest game of his career, when his team needed him the most. Brilliant game.

    Cashman calling Dave Dombrowski on the eve of the WS? Classic Cash – never satisfied, always seeking to improve his team.

  4. Paul December 31st, 2009 at 9:32 am

    Chad – you missed a big one: October 7, 2009. Game 1 against the Twins, 5th inning, 3-2 game, A-Rod comes up with two out and a runner on second and lines an RBI base hit to left. In my mind, that at bat might have been the most important of the postseason – it was a situation where Alex had (famously) failed so often in recent years. Two innings later he drives in another run, two days later he crushes one off of Joe Nathan, and the rest is history. We do not win the World Series without A-Rod’s offense,and that one hit may have done more to take the monkey off of his back and relax him at the plate than we can ever know.

  5. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day December 31st, 2009 at 9:36 am

    I’m not sure I would put Melky’s walk-off against the A’s as the most momentous just because it was in the 14th inning. Alex’ against the Sox was the most dramatic and there were plenty of other choices. Let’s see which ones MLB includes tonight in the Walk-Off highlights show.

    It’s amazing to me that,at the beginning of the year, Alex was as low as you could get. He had the Selena Roberts book hanging over him and obviously the whole steroids controversy. “The book” proved to be a complete and utter failure for many reasons, not least of which is the fact that it was clearly written with the idea of bringing Alex down. Speculation does not trump facts.

  6. Rich in NJ December 31st, 2009 at 9:38 am

    It may merit only a subparagraph, but the day that Girardi finally gained confidence in D Rob, the bridge to Mariano got a lot stronger, and as a result, the team became significantly better.

    I think his emergence was one of the most important developments of the season. I hope his elbow issues late in the season don’t presage an ongoing problem.

  7. Mac Daddy December 31st, 2009 at 9:52 am

    not enough arod on there- guy was the playoffs… and the cervelli hr along with girardi getting tossed vs the braves HAS to be on there

  8. GreenBeret7 December 31st, 2009 at 9:55 am

    The next time that The Bloggin’ Boys talk to Newman and the other farm system honchos, I’d like to see them ask of their plans and feelings towards some of the lower level kids. Also ask if there are any plans to have them switch positions or get cross training at other positions, in particular, moving catchers/infielders to the outfield.

  9. Tom on N.J. December 31st, 2009 at 10:01 am

    All great choices, Chad.

    There were so many great baseball memories from this season-Damon’s Dash, Alex’s walkoff vs the Sox, Hope Week, all the pies, ect..

    What a year the Yankees gave there fans.

  10. NJ Steve December 31st, 2009 at 10:01 am

    Rich in NJ
    “Can someone tell me why they are ignoring how bad Granderson is against lefties?”

    Are they ignoring it, or they merely willing to determine for themselves whether or not it can be improved.

    By way of comparison:

    Paul O’Neill v. LHP in his last two years in Cinn:

    1992: .226 .273 .292 .565

    1991: .206 .260 .315 .575

    Granderson v. LHP in his last two years in Det:

    2009: .183 .245 .239 .484

    2008: .259 .310 .429 .739

    I have no idea whether or not Granderson can improve the way O’Neill did, but I don’t think it’s impossible that he can improve.
    ___________________________________________________

    Your point about Oneill is a good one and your question as to whether he can improve is also fair, however, Paul’s case is rare, but you also must remember that while Oneill wasn’t platooned, he was also MUCH worse against lefties. the reason why Oneill’s case was rare is that after playing 4 full years his OPS was roughly .775, but Oneill immediately became an OPS guy of over .900 in the first 4 years with the yanks. It wasn’t that all of a sudden he was better against lefties, he all of a sudden increased his OPS by an astounding 125+ points. In fact, in Paul’s first year with the Yankees his OPS was .597, still very weak.

    Paul became a much better hitter all around and his lefty numbers were raised because of it, but it is rare. Overall, his lifetime OPS against lefties was still a weak .699. I also believe that while many people think of Oneill as clutch, he was able to be pitched to in close and late situations with a situational lefty. In close and late situations in his career his OPS was .774 which is below his career OPS of .833. I think most of the discrepancy was facing lefties.

    Could Granderson become usable against lefties, sure it is possible, but the odds of Gardner hitting better than him against lefties is more likely.

    Let us all hope Granderson has an epiphany like Oneill, but we also have to acknowledge it is highly unlikely.

  11. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day December 31st, 2009 at 10:02 am

    GB, I agree. Chad, get cracking…..just kidding!

    How are you doing this morning, GB?

  12. Ed H. December 31st, 2009 at 10:02 am

    Very nice article by Murray Chass this morning on Brian Cashman’s excellent offseason work:

    http://www.murraychass.com/?p=.....oo%21+Mail

  13. joeman December 31st, 2009 at 10:06 am

    March…Brett Gardner named opening day center fielder….lost his job to Melky who they traded away,maybe they traded the wrong guy…Gardner starting in LF brings nothing to this team. He can’t hit (someone say Cody where are you now)all he has is speed & his D is decent nothing great.

  14. Guest December 31st, 2009 at 10:07 am

    Interesting list Chad, but I have to agree with others that there are some other moments that may have been larger than the 12 you listed.

    The entire season turned on the first pitch that A-Rod saw from Jeremy Guthrie. It told us A-Rod would be back and, consequently, the Yankees would be back.

    The Cervelli homerun woke the team up from the duldrums and started them on a streak of good play that took them through the World Series.

    The A-Rod homer in the 15th effectively ended the AL east division race. In fact, Im pretty sure Bill Simmons pretty much tweeted to that effect as soon as the game ended.

  15. MTU December 31st, 2009 at 10:08 am

    Vinny-

    All Gansta OF:

    Jose guillen RF

    Elijah Dukes CF

    Lastings Milledge RF

    4th OF- Delmon Young

  16. GreenBeret7 December 31st, 2009 at 10:09 am

    Betsy – Romine wasn’t built in a day
    December 31st, 2009 at 10:02 am
    GB, I agree. Chad, get cracking…..just kidding!

    How are you doing this morning, GB?

    ————————————————————

    Doing fine, Betsy. Thank you for asking. Hope that you and your family have had a great holiday and a fine New year coming.

  17. Gardner in CF December 31st, 2009 at 10:09 am

    I like the idea of a Gardner/Gardner platoon

  18. Steve December 31st, 2009 at 10:10 am

    can anyone show me a photo of AROD with his rehab last season…

  19. Bret the Hitman December 31st, 2009 at 10:10 am

    No Holliday.

    Crawford?

  20. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day December 31st, 2009 at 10:11 am

    Ed, that was a terrific article – thanks for posting!

    I love the below quote. There will always be alternatives for the Yankees, so there’s no need for them to be desperate for anyone. They have $$$ and smarts, a truly dangerous combination

    “I don’t think the Yankees should be expected to pay what someone wants just because we’re the Yankees,” Cashman said. “We expressed our interest and how much we’d go…….”

  21. Vincent December 31st, 2009 at 10:11 am

    Very fun read. Thanks and Happy New Year.

  22. SmackethDowneth December 31st, 2009 at 10:12 am

    Betsy, how are you feeling after the slip and fall?

  23. GreenBeret7 December 31st, 2009 at 10:13 am

    Perhaps we could add 3 more to Chad’s list and rename it “15 Days That Shook The World”.

  24. MTU December 31st, 2009 at 10:14 am

    Brett-

    Thanks for the book recommendation.

  25. Bret the Hitman December 31st, 2009 at 10:14 am

    “I’m still hopeful,” Mozeliak wrote in a text message. “But there is still work to be done.”

  26. Bret the Hitman December 31st, 2009 at 10:14 am

    “But there is still work to be done.”

  27. Bret the Hitman December 31st, 2009 at 10:15 am

    “still work to be done.”

  28. Rich in NJ December 31st, 2009 at 10:15 am

    NJ Steve

    “Could Granderson become usable against lefties, sure it is possible, but the odds of Gardner hitting better than him against lefties is more likely.”

    IIRC, Showalter slowly worked O’Neill in against LHP, sitting him against really tough ones. I would guess that they also coached him up, and perhaps they were able to identify a flaw in his swing (which Cash says Granderson doesn’t have).

    Granderson really only has to be passable v. LHP, especially if he is a > .900 OPS guy against RHP and plays above average defense. A .750 OPS would be acceptable.

    The real issue is (assuming his 2009 splits don’t continue) what do you do with him in close and late situations v. tough LHP.

  29. tex's friend December 31st, 2009 at 10:15 am

    definitely the day cashman came down to atlanta too.

  30. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day December 31st, 2009 at 10:15 am

    Smacketh, I’m fine, thanks! I was more embarrassed than anything else, lol

  31. Bret the Hitman December 31st, 2009 at 10:15 am

    “work to be done.”

  32. Guest December 31st, 2009 at 10:15 am

    But I must also hand out Kudos on your selection of AJ’s game 2 performance in the World Series. That was the absolutely key game of that series. If we lose that, we are in a world of hurt. And you are absolutely correct that AJ’s stinker of a game 5 was pretty much irrelevant and not even that worrisome as it was happening. We were on the road against Cliff Lee and had a 3-1 lead. Our win expectancy for the Series at that point would remain high, even with a loss.

    AJ certainly lived up to his billing as “the little girl with the curl” (sometimes nice, sometimes not so nice). But we lucked out in that good AJ showed up in his highest leverage start of the season and bad AJ showed up when a good start would have been nice, but was by no means a a necessity.

  33. Bret the Hitman December 31st, 2009 at 10:16 am

    “work”

  34. Rich in NJ December 31st, 2009 at 10:17 am

    “I’m still hopeful,” Mozeliak wrote in a text message. “But there is still work to be done.”

    What am I missing?

  35. Jerkface December 31st, 2009 at 10:18 am

    “done”

    The deal is done. Damnit, Cashman!! You messed up again, worst offseason ever!!!!

  36. MTU December 31st, 2009 at 10:18 am

    Brett-
    It appears that Boras has found his one dumb owner.

    And a desperate one at that.

  37. Bret the Hitman December 31st, 2009 at 10:18 am

    MTU
    December 31st, 2009 at 10:14 am
    Brett-

    Thanks for the book recommendation.

    Any time.

  38. MTU December 31st, 2009 at 10:19 am

    Brett-

    You in the field ?

  39. Bret the Hitman December 31st, 2009 at 10:19 am

    MTU
    December 31st, 2009 at 10:18 am
    Brett-
    It appears that Boras has found his one dumb owner.

    And a desperate one at that.

    Tex was “close to signing with Boston” too.

    The money figures are speculation.

  40. Bret the Hitman December 31st, 2009 at 10:21 am

    MTU
    December 31st, 2009 at 10:19 am
    Brett-

    You in the field ?

    No MTU. I was a personal trainer for about a year. I’m a gym rat and avid reader of health-related literature. I’m going back to school soon to become a Registered Dietitian. I’d like to design menus for school districts as I believe there is a direct link between nutrition and academic achievement as well as positive behavior.

  41. MTU December 31st, 2009 at 10:21 am

    Brett-

    I think the Cards might be ready to sign MH as a protection against the possible loss of Albert to FA.

    JMHO.

  42. GreenBeret7 December 31st, 2009 at 10:23 am

    People always refer to Game #2 of the WS as if it were Burnett’s only good post season start. I was the only game he won, but, he was also brilliant in Game #2 of the ALDS and Game #2 of the ALCS. Only the lack of offense kept him from having 3 wins.

  43. MTU December 31st, 2009 at 10:23 am

    Brett-

    I thought all kids grew up on Burgers, Hot Dogs, and cheese Macaroni.

    Worthy cause.

    IMHO.

  44. DaSaint007 December 31st, 2009 at 10:23 am

    GB, last day of the year, hang in there.
    Next year I bet you’ll do just fine.

  45. Steve December 31st, 2009 at 10:24 am

    if it’s white don’t eat it

  46. Bret the Hitman December 31st, 2009 at 10:24 am

    MTU
    December 31st, 2009 at 10:21 am
    Brett-

    I think the Cards might be ready to sign MH as a protection against the possible loss of Albert to FA.

    JMHO.

    Even a valiant attempt to sign him should please Albert, regardless of outcome, no?

  47. GreenBeret7 December 31st, 2009 at 10:25 am

    ***It*** was the only game he won

  48. damon enjoy 27...think 28 December 31st, 2009 at 10:25 am

    Chad

    How about Alex hitting in postseason, this was a breakout moment for the Yankees, and him.

  49. randy l. December 31st, 2009 at 10:26 am

    “Andy Pettitte returns on a one-year deal”

    last year’s dec 31 post by pete on pettitte coming back and comments by regulars is quite interesting:
    http://yankees.lhblogs.com/200.....-rotation/

    doreen had it right: “Second, I think Pettitte is worth more than $10 million. He is a lefty veteran pitcher with playoff experience who gives a team innings and will take the ball under almost any circumstance”

    another regular who shall remain nameless didn’t :
    “FWIW I didn’t want Pettitte back at all. I don’t feel the Yankees owe him anything. Baseball is a business. They brought him back and for whatever reason he was terrible when it counted. If he was hurt he should have admitted it and let the Yankees do whatever they had to with their kids from the minors. Who knows, maybe they could have cobbled enough wins from them to make the playoffs! So the Yankees should bring Andy back why? Because they believe he still can help them based on what?
    He did NOT

    “Andy has disappointed the fans with his HgH use aka cheating, and his money grubbing ways. He apparently takes his lessons from Clemens with regard to money management, drugs, performance and attitude even though he likes to pretend to be a “Christian”. Andrew would be better off to leave his pride at the door and take the 10 million and keep his mouth shut. How soon he forgets the NYY supported the cheating drug abuser.”
    *AMEN!*

    crawdaddy with a nice prediction:
    “Also, I think Joba pitches more than 140 innings next season. I think his total innings if healthy will be between 150-160 innings.”
    joba threw 157.

    gb7 in support of petttte:
    “Do you just prattle on or do you ever check the facts? Pettitte missed one start in 2008 and had one less than the team leader Mussina. He lead the Yanks by 4 in 2007. He led the Astros in starts and innings in 2006 (considerably more than Clemens and Oswalt). He pitched the last two months last year with a tired shoulder, and, yes, the team knew it and didn’t have a replacement, so Pettitte pitched anyway.”

    there are so many variables that it’s not easy to nail the future.

  50. Rishi December 31st, 2009 at 10:27 am

    Have you all seen this Granderson Q&A?

    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn.....id=4781783

    Haven’t had the chance to sit down with the computer since last week and I wasn’t sure…

  51. MTU December 31st, 2009 at 10:27 am

    Brett-

    my theory is that the Cards can’t afford both MH and AP.

    One or the other.

    Chances are MH is the easier target.

    Albert will command over 200Mill.

    If it were me I would forget MH and be sure to allocate the funds to AP.

    As good as MH is he can’t be compared with King Albert.

  52. GreenBeret7 December 31st, 2009 at 10:27 am

    DaSaint007
    December 31st, 2009 at 10:23 am
    GB, last day of the year, hang in there.
    Next year I bet you’ll do just fine.

    ————————————————————

    Thanks, Simon. I appreciate the words of encouragement.

  53. Ed H. December 31st, 2009 at 10:28 am

    Betsy and Vincent,

    You’re welcome. I’m glad you enjoyed it.

  54. Frank December 31st, 2009 at 10:29 am

    “I think the Cards might be ready to sign MH as a protection against the possible loss of Albert to FA.”

    I think it may be more about the Cards showing Pujols they are committed to keeping a high end bat with him for years to come. I think this more likely spells the end of Chris Carpenter’s time in St. Louis when his contract is up moreso than it does Pujols. He’s been in the midwest since high school and seems comfortable there. Don’t see much of a hometown discount coming, but something in the $25M-$27M (read: Arod-ish money) should get it done.

  55. GreenBeret7 December 31st, 2009 at 10:38 am

    Why would St. Louis let Carpenter go and break up one of the best 1,2 parts of a rotation in the ML? Why would Carpenter leave when St. Louis paid him well when he was hurt and kept bringing him back?

  56. Abdababdaserser December 31st, 2009 at 10:40 am

    If the Cardinals sign Pujols and Holliday it will be about 40 to 50% of their payroll tied up in two position players. They won’t be able to afford to sign Carpenter on top of those two.

  57. GreenBeret7 December 31st, 2009 at 10:45 am

    Abdababdaserser
    December 31st, 2009 at 10:40 am
    If the Cardinals sign Pujols and Holliday it will be about 40 to 50% of their payroll tied up in two position players. They won’t be able to afford to sign Carpenter on top of those two.

    Having Pujols and Holliday won’t do much good if they don’t having starters that can get outs.

  58. Bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes December 31st, 2009 at 10:46 am

    joeman
    December 31st, 2009 at 10:06 am
    March…Brett Gardner named opening day center fielder….lost his job to Melky who they traded away,maybe they traded the wrong guy…Gardner starting in LF brings nothing to this team. He can’t hit (someone say Cody where are you now)all he has is speed & his D is decent nothing great.
    =====

    Yeah, this one puzzled me, too.

    Highlighting this makes it seems like there was some seminal moment that occurred.

    Not only did it NOT occur – the guy lost the job.

  59. Bret the Hitman December 31st, 2009 at 10:47 am

    Why not Gardner + Vizcaino + Dunn?

    I still don’t get that.

  60. Frank December 31st, 2009 at 10:48 am

    “Why would St. Louis let Carpenter go and break up one of the best 1,2 parts of a rotation in the ML? Why would Carpenter leave when St. Louis paid him well when he was hurt and kept bringing him back?”

    Carpenter’s got two years on his deal. Not saying they get rid of him before then, but I don’t think they’ll extend him beyond that deal. He’s 35 in April. He’s an FA at age 37. I think that signing Holliday puts them in the position of having to choose between Carpenter and Pujols after the 2011 season. Be surprised if the choice isn’t Pujols.

  61. blake December 31st, 2009 at 10:49 am

    I think the Cards may see MH at least somewhat of an insurance policy if they were to lose out on Pujols but I don’t think it will change the fact that they will do whatever they can to re-sign him..

    This move is a bit out of character for the Cards but they have a great fanbase so maybe they are planning on spending more money in the future

  62. John in Ohio December 31st, 2009 at 10:49 am

    Chad

    Not that I don’t appreciate the effort, because I really do, but hey, it’s New Year’s Eve. Shut the computer down and walk down to the beer joint.

    Happy New Year to all.

  63. MTU December 31st, 2009 at 10:50 am

    Frank-

    I’d be surprised if any team had that much payroll tied up in 2 players.

    I don’t care who they are.

  64. Tom on N.J. December 31st, 2009 at 10:52 am

    “Why not Gardner + Vizcaino + Dunn?”

    My guess would be salery. Melky’s primed to get 4 million in arbitration and Gardner will make about 400k.

    Or, perhaps the Braves wanted Melky because they think (rightfuly so) that he’s a better plyer.

  65. Abdababdaserser December 31st, 2009 at 10:53 am

    GB7, I agree, it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, unless they think they have a lot of young talent who can come up and pitch and field the rest of the team, while paying them the lower dollars.

    It seems they are more concerned about keeping Pujols than being able to keep competing.

  66. Rich in NJ December 31st, 2009 at 10:54 am

    I’m not sure that Melky will ultimately be a better player than Gardner, but he is a safer bet.

  67. Frank December 31st, 2009 at 10:55 am

    “I’d be surprised if any team had that much payroll tied up in 2 players.

    I don’t care who they are.”

    Besides the Yankees, right?

    Cards have to bite the bullet on this. Might mean them going up to $105M or so rather than the $85M-$95M range they’ve been, but the PR disaster resulting from not doing it would be pretty heavy IMO.

  68. Bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes December 31st, 2009 at 10:58 am

    Certainly Cabrera’s arbitration figured into it. At 3 or even 2.5, they’d have felt they were overpaying.

    I think they made a mistake, myself. They need to now go outside to find a LF, or live with a black hole in the 9 spot.

  69. GVCCV December 31st, 2009 at 10:59 am

    I’m glad there will never again be Cano,Melky, in the batting order it was frustrating to watch.

  70. MTU December 31st, 2009 at 11:00 am

    frank-

    I think AP is a must sign.

    Think Stan the Man.

    Face of the franchise type.

    But MH ?

    Expensive protection.

    Can the Cards raise payroll in this economy ?

  71. randy l. December 31st, 2009 at 11:01 am

    nady , wang, rodriguez, and posada injuries changed the best laid plans that the yankees had for 2009.

    depth is what got the yankees past these injuries.

    cervelli was at triple a, swisher’s versatility solved nady being gone. the depth of the rotation while not great was enough to fill in for wang.

    this year will likely have it’s major injuries that change things.

    do the yankees have the depth again to overcome them? they seem deeper in starters. less deep in the outfield. less deep at catcher. bullpen seems better. back up infielders so so. ramiro pena can fill in, but an injury to alex, jeter, or cano would probably cause the most problem.

    pre season, swisher was a spare part with no real position to play. it’s not a bad thing to have a guy like that. i’m not so much concerned about gardner playing left field as i am if an outfielder gets injured and is out a considerable time. the yankees are thin out there and they weren’t last year.

    but the yankees are still loaded compared to anyone else. it’s hard to not feel good about the yankees’ 2010 prospects.

  72. Frank December 31st, 2009 at 11:03 am

    “Can the Cards raise payroll in this economy ?”

    Don’t know. Their tough decision is two years away. Guess a lot hinges on what happens between now and then.

  73. Bret the Hitman December 31st, 2009 at 11:03 am

    I have a hard time believing the Braves would’ve nixed the Vazquez deal if Cashman slid Gardner in place of Melky to go along with our #2 prospect (Vizcaino) and Dunn.

    Now if the Yankees wanted to cut salary, that’s one thing but cut salary for what? For Reed Johnson?

  74. MTU December 31st, 2009 at 11:03 am

    GB-

    Do you think Colin Curtis might surprise in a positive way ?

  75. Wave Your Hat December 31st, 2009 at 11:04 am

    “there are so many variables that it’s not easy to nail the future.”

    Yes, but sometimes it is easier than other times.

    Predicting Andy would be a valuable piece of the Yanks’ 2009 wasn’t all that hard.

  76. saucY December 31st, 2009 at 11:04 am

    “This isn’t intended to be some sort of ranking of the Yankees’ most important dates of the past year. Instead, it is simply a look back at some of the days that mattered. One day from each month. Not necessarily the most important days, but certainly days that stood out or made a difference. ”

    but of course there are countless posts stating this or that was more importing for whichever month… :roll:

  77. Jerkface December 31st, 2009 at 11:07 am

    I take Gardner over Melky going forward. Better defender, better on base skills, much faster, hit for near the same average, less power.

    Even without a hitting tool Gardner is worth a lot to the team. I think they ended up with the same WAR (melky and gardner) and gardner is a lot cheaper.

    Also you have no idea if they could have traded Gardner in Melky’s place.

    I am sure other teams value players differently.

  78. tex's friend December 31st, 2009 at 11:08 am

    I’m glad there will never again be Cano,Melky, in the batting order it was frustrating to watch.

    ___

    yeah cano’s 320 average and his 25 hrs and 85 rbis was real frustrating. that and melky’s 270/13/69 from the 9 hole and 3 walk offs. how horrible was that!?!

  79. Jose December 31st, 2009 at 11:09 am

    good Q&A with Grandy:
    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn.....id=4781783

  80. mick December 31st, 2009 at 11:09 am

    Alex’ bomb on 1st pitch back and granny on his last to give him the 7 rbi 2 HR inning, 100 for season, was quite the moment(s).

    Over the top post, Chad, good job this year to all of you and a Happy New Year!

  81. Carl December 31st, 2009 at 11:10 am

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywEjQRV2wdk

    Final inning from the official 2009 world series DVD. Must watch.

  82. Jerkface December 31st, 2009 at 11:10 am

    that and melky’s 270/13/69

    This slash line doesn’t show anything. It ignors all the times he did not get on base, ignores the rate stats.

    Which player do you want

    Player A .300/20/90

    Player B .270/15/75

  83. Nick D. December 31st, 2009 at 11:11 am

    Here is the first one for next year:

    January X, 2010

    The day Matt Holliday finally signs with the Cardinals and wide-eyed Yankee fans finally stop talking about getting him and realize the Cashman was telling the truth all along.

  84. GreenBeret7 December 31st, 2009 at 11:11 am

    Abdababdaserser
    December 31st, 2009 at 10:53 am
    GB7, I agree, it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, unless they think they have a lot of young talent who can come up and pitch and field the rest of the team, while paying them the lower dollars.

    It seems they are more concerned about keeping Pujols than being able to keep competing.

    ————————————————————

    St. Louis would only have 4 “high paid” players in Pujols, Holliday, Carpenter, Lohse and Wainwright. Ludwick would most likely not be resigned. Not a lot of money tied up in the rest. Carpenter at 35 is better than most at 25.

  85. GreenBeret7 December 31st, 2009 at 11:14 am

    GVCCV
    December 31st, 2009 at 10:59 am
    I’m glad there will never again be Cano,Melky, in the batting order it was frustrating to watch.

    ————————————————————

    Right. How disgusting it was to watch a Gold Glove second baseman with a corner outfielder’s bat. I hope to never see that trash again.

    Clown.

  86. RayVT December 31st, 2009 at 11:16 am

    Does anyone besides me think Hoffman has a real chance to start in LF if no one else is brought in to NY? He has the tools including an arm for throws. I just can’t believe the Yanks would take him 1st if they didn’t see a big upside because I can’t believe Bruney was just a salary dump. Maybe a partial dump, but they could have gotten someone else for Bruney as well that wouldn’t be a rule 5 type, who must stay in NY all year or lose.

  87. AeroFANatic December 31st, 2009 at 11:16 am

    Gardner and Melky are essentially the same player. Yes, Melky does some things a bit better than Gardy…where Gardy does some things better than Melky.

    But for all intents and purposes, the same.

    The difference..cost. Melky was/is due to get more expensive (3million) where Gardner is 400K and has a few years left before arbitration.

    Everyone seems to forget…we won the WORLD SERIES last year with Gardbrera in CF and Damon in LF. Offensively, Granderson is an upgrade to Damon. Defensively, Granderson is vastly superior than Damon.

    So essentially, thats the only change. We don’t *NEED* someone to take the place of Gardner. If they get a guy to platoon with him, fine. But his offense and great defense will be just fine for the Yanks’ purposes.

  88. Jerkface December 31st, 2009 at 11:17 am

    You’re taking issue with the wrong portion of that post, I think it is more anti-melky than anti-cano.

    Cano->Melky in the batting order was more likely to produce an out than almost any other A->B portion of the lineup and also the most likely to swing at bad pitches and never walk*

    *and just because Cano is an excellent hitter it does not make it the most likely to have a hit, because Melky is not great shakes.

  89. Bret the Hitman December 31st, 2009 at 11:17 am

    Melky is more proven than Gardner. Not even close.

    At least with Melky, you have more of a track record on which to base in order to trust him with more regular playing time.

  90. mick December 31st, 2009 at 11:19 am

    Nick D. December 31st, 2009 at 11:11 am

    Here is the first one for next year:

    January X, 2010

    The day Matt Holliday finally signs with the Cardinals and wide-eyed Yankee fans finally stop talking about getting him and realize the Cashman was telling the truth all along.
    ==========================================================

    Boston’s black hole in LF might prove to be darker and larger than ours’.

  91. randy l. December 31st, 2009 at 11:19 am

    “Yes, but sometimes it is easier than other times.
    Predicting Andy would be a valuable piece of the Yanks’ 2009 wasn’t all that hard.”

    wave your hat-
    you had it right last year.
    you said:
    “Personally, I’d be very surprised if Andy does not end up pitching for the Yanks, and also surprised if the Yanks aren’t willing to sweeten the offer some to get the deal done.
    Andy would be perfect as the #4, allowing Joba to pitch out of the fifth starter slot which would restrict his innings without having to skip his turn in the rotation.”

    this year i see problems at catcher and the outfield unless someone is signed who creates some depth . the ideal guy that gives depth is a guy that there just doesn’t seem like there’s room for him like swisher last year.

    channeling yogi, what the yankees really need is a guy they don’t need.

  92. GreenBeret7 December 31st, 2009 at 11:20 am

    MTU
    December 31st, 2009 at 11:03 am
    GB-

    Do you think Colin Curtis might surprise in a positive way ?

    ————————————————————

    I would hope that he hits and does what people hope, but, I really doubt it. If he’s much of anything, it’s as a 4th outfielder.

  93. DaSaint007 December 31st, 2009 at 11:22 am

    I’m positive that the ‘Final Answer’ for our outfield in 2010 isn’t Garder, Granderson, Swisher, and Hoffmann, but I’m sure Cashman & Co. are working on that and will get it resolved prior to Opening Day.

    Since Cashman stressed Pitching, Pitching, Pitching so much (and rightfully so), he’s answered that call with Vazquez and Logan. Now while I think Vazquez is a great move (veteran middle of rotation pitcher for 4th OF and parts), you can’t convince me that Logan is the LHRP answer for this pen, facing AL East competition. I would have preferred signing Mike Gonzalez, but that wasn’t to be, so let’s hope that a George Sherrill or another quality lefty is obtained for the season. I say that cause I can’t be certain of which Marte we’ll have.

  94. Jerkface December 31st, 2009 at 11:23 am

    This slash line doesn’t show anything. It ignors all the times he did not get on base, ignores the rate stats.

    Which player do you want

    Player A .300/20/90

    Player B .270/15/75

    Because no one felt the need to call me on this I’ll just explain. Player A might hit .300 with 20 HR and 90 RBIs, but if he does it in 800 PA , never walks or hits doubles, his total line will be

    .300/.300/.375 /.675 not a great player.

    On the flip side player B hits .270/15/75 in 400 PA, and cranks 20 doubles and walks 100 times, his line will b e

    .270/.452/.437/.889

    So basically, the AVG/HR/RBI triple slash is the worst, the end.

  95. saucY December 31st, 2009 at 11:23 am

    RayVT, i agree with you re: Hoffmann. i don’t think they give up Bruney for nothing, regardless if Hoffmann was on anyone’s radar before the Rule V…

  96. DaSaint007 December 31st, 2009 at 11:23 am

    BTW, Gardner, Granderson, Swisher and Hoffmann sounds just like a NY Law firm.

  97. joeman December 31st, 2009 at 11:23 am

    I for one think that Melky will be a better all around player than he is right now & to compare Melky & Gardner give me Melky any day…Gardner has a lot to prove with his bat, his D is average,his base running instincts, well a few times last season you saw them

  98. a cigarette December 31st, 2009 at 11:24 am

    GreenBeret7, I want you. I’m delicious.

  99. Rich in NJ December 31st, 2009 at 11:24 am

    “Gardner and Melky are essentially the same player. Yes, Melky does some things a bit better than Gardy…where Gardy does some things better than Melky.”

    I think you are assuming that their respective development curves won’t diverge, which isn’t necessarily warranted.

  100. joeman December 31st, 2009 at 11:26 am

    besides run what else does Gardner do better than Melky…

  101. GreenBeret7 December 31st, 2009 at 11:26 am

    Jerkface
    December 31st, 2009 at 11:23 am
    This slash line doesn’t show anything. It ignors all the times he did not get on base, ignores the rate stats.

    Which player do you want

    Player A .300/20/90

    Player B .270/15/75

    Because no one felt the need to call me on this I’ll just explain. Player A might hit .300 with 20 HR and 90 RBIs, but if he does it in 800 PA , never walks or hits doubles, his total line will be

    .300/.300/.375 /.675 not a great player.

    On the flip side player B hits .270/15/75 in 400 PA, and cranks 20 doubles and walks 100 times, his line will b e

    .270/.452/.437/.889

    So basically, the AVG/HR/RBI triple slash is the worst, the end.

    ————————————————————

    How good would Jeter’s numbers look if he hadn’t had 18 homers, or damon without his 24?

  102. Wave Your Hat December 31st, 2009 at 11:27 am

    randy-

    The Yanks are down 2 outfielders from where they were at the start of 2009, having lost Damon, Nady and Cabrera and having added Granderson.

    I don’t see them signing Damon (or, obviously, MH), although I still have a little hope for Nady. I’m not counting Hoffman in the depth chart yet, at least until he shows something in ST.

    We needed the depth in the outfield last year, having lost Nady right away and losing Gardner for a while. If we have similar problems this year it will be a problem.

    Even if they add another outfielder, the initial depth we had last year isn’t there.

    At catcher, there’s no answer. We went with Posada and Molina, with Cervelli and Cash – Posada and Cervelli is as good as Posada and Molina, IMO. The worry is Jorge won’t have the same season next year, or could get hurt. But for 2010, there’s just no answer for that misfortune so we have to accept it, right?

  103. Jerkface December 31st, 2009 at 11:29 am

    Melky is more proven than Gardner. Not even close.

    At least with Melky, you have more of a track record on which to base in order to trust him with more regular playing time.

    ==

    Yea Melky is proven… to suck! He has a track record… of failure!

    Using Melkys prior performance as some kind of reason to keep handing him CF isn’t very smart because Melky wasn’t that great. THe Yankees should always be looking to get better, and they have stuck with Melky due to lack of other options and hope that he would build on his 2006 year but he never did. He got worse!

    About the only thing that has improved is his power, which isn’t surprising as he gets older and stronger.

    His plate discipline is worse, his throwing is worse. Melky might need a change of scenery.

  104. Wave Your Hat December 31st, 2009 at 11:30 am

    Melky was a better player than Gardner last year, as indicated by the numbers and Girardi’s choice of Melky over Gardner when it mattered.

    You have to do some wishful projecting to make BG better than Melky in 2010. It could happen, but not the most probable outcome, IMO.

  105. RayVT December 31st, 2009 at 11:31 am

    I never understood the hate Melky & Cano have taken on this board. I believe everyone wants Melky or the starting CF to be Mantle or Dimaggio. Its crazy. How many NYY 2B had a better year than Cano??? I’m not sure I can name one. Yet he is the target of ignorant assaults. The he can’t hit in the clutch or with men on base is malarkey. He had 85 RBIs last year. Sure he had some issues last year with runners in scoring position, but who doesn’t? He is still young and his WS winning Manager was hitting him 5th at times even probably because he doesn’t know better. There are fluke seasons and fluke hits and catches, but Cano is the real deal. Melky is still young!! He is a switch hitter with a great arm in the OF. I love it when people say, well Melky & Gardner both had 3 assists last year. I propose that runners didn’t think twice about running on Damon or Gardner, whereas they didn’t chance it with Melky. While I’m not a Gardner basher, he has real deficiencies in his game and would be exposed in a full season not unlike last years playoffs. I even believe that the Yanks can survive with Gardner in LF for half the season as long as someone that can hit takes his place the 2nd half for the playoffs. Everyone has a right to their hopes & beliefs, but some seem out of touch like yesterdays comparisons stating Gardner was better than Crawford. LOL! Of course I’d love to be wrong on that one!!!

  106. GeorgeInJax December 31st, 2009 at 11:32 am

    Last year was Gardner’s official rookie season.
    he’s only played a total of 150 MLB games (a lot of those as a late inning replacement).

    Keep that in perspective, with more experience he is going to keep getting better. He has shown that at all levels he’s played in.

    No need to keep ripping the kid.
    He’s doing well for what amounts to less than one full season of big league ball.

  107. GreenBeret7 December 31st, 2009 at 11:32 am

    Cervelli replaces Molina and Mike Rivera replaces Cervelli as the #3 catcher. I’d say that’s quite an improvement.

  108. Jerkface December 31st, 2009 at 11:32 am

    How good would Jeter’s numbers look if he hadn’t had 18 homers, or damon without his 24?

    Not sure what you are angling for here. The AVG/HR/RBI tripleslash is not good because it gives no context for the numbers. You can’t even compare the numbers for different players in a vacuum because they come with different parameters.

    Hitting 20 HRs is an accomplishment, but not if it takes you 1000 tries to do it. Know what I’m saying?

    Why even include batting average in the triple slash? Why not just include # of basehits?

  109. Gardner in CF December 31st, 2009 at 11:32 am

    Jerkface December 31st, 2009 at 11:29 am

    Yea Melky is proven… to suck! He has a track record… of failure!

    Using Melkys prior performance as some kind of reason to keep handing him CF isn’t very smart because Melky wasn’t that great. THe Yankees should always be looking to get better, and they have stuck with Melky due to lack of other options and hope that he would build on his 2006 year but he never did. He got worse!

    About the only thing that has improved is his power, which isn’t surprising as he gets older and stronger.

    His plate discipline is worse, his throwing is worse. Melky might need a change of scenery.

    Agreed on all points. A conditioning program couldn’t hurt either.

  110. Rich in NJ December 31st, 2009 at 11:33 am

    “besides run what else does Gardner do better than Melky…”

    Play CF defense

    Gardner has had 375 AB, less than a full ML season.

    Melky, otoh, has had 1923 AB.

    Consequently, we have a much better idea of what Melky is. Gardner is more boom/bust.

  111. Wave Your Hat December 31st, 2009 at 11:34 am

    “Cervelli replaces Molina and Mike Rivera replaces Cervelli as the #3 catcher. I’d say that’s quite an improvement.”

    I stand corrected.

  112. Mike RI December 31st, 2009 at 11:35 am

    I never understood the hate Melky & Cano have taken on this board

    Ray VT-

    its because we’re a spoiled fan base thats wants an All-Star at every postion.

  113. Jerkface December 31st, 2009 at 11:35 am

    Melky was a better player than Gardner last year, as indicated by the numbers and Girardi’s choice of Melky over Gardner when it mattered.

    -

    Brett Gardner had a higher wOBA and WAR despite less playing time than Melky. He was also injured for a month after OPSing .900 for 2 straight months.

  114. GreenBeret7 December 31st, 2009 at 11:36 am

    Jerkface
    December 31st, 2009 at 11:32 am
    How good would Jeter’s numbers look if he hadn’t had 18 homers, or damon without his 24?

    Not sure what you are angling for here. The AVG/HR/RBI tripleslash is not good because it gives no context for the numbers. You can’t even compare the numbers for different players in a vacuum because they come with different parameters.

    Hitting 20 HRs is an accomplishment, but not if it takes you 1000 tries to do it. Know what I’m saying?

    Why even include batting average in the triple slash? Why not just include # of basehits?

    ————————————————————

    You brought it up…I didn’t. Your example makes no more sense than mine did.

  115. Jerkface December 31st, 2009 at 11:38 am

    You brought it up…I didn’t. Your example makes no more sense than mine did.

    Maybe you just didn’t understand the example. Why would I have to take away Damon or Jeters HRs? Or care what their line would be like without them?

    My point was the AVG/HR/RBI triple slash offers virtually no information on if a player is good other than their batting average.

    My example was pretty easy to follow I think.

  116. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day December 31st, 2009 at 11:38 am

    I don’t see how we can judge Hoffman at all until we see him for ourselves…..and remember that he goes back to LA if he doesn’t stick on the ML roster all year. What are the odds of that?

    Per Mark Newman, he’s better in RF than LF – too bad, but at least he can play all positions. If he can stick (big IF), he could be a nice piece.

  117. Wave Your Hat December 31st, 2009 at 11:39 am

    Jerkface-

    Melky played every day. BG had the advantage of having Girardi pick and choose his spots. Melky also had a higher OPS+.

    IMO, you are overly impressed with BG’s UZR. According to UZR, BG is a mixture of Willie Mays and Bob “Death to Flying Things” Ferguson. I just am not buying into that yet.

  118. GreenBeret7 December 31st, 2009 at 11:39 am

    Wave Your Hat
    December 31st, 2009 at 11:34 am
    “Cervelli replaces Molina and Mike Rivera replaces Cervelli as the #3 catcher. I’d say that’s quite an improvement.”

    I stand corrected.

    ————————————————————

    As long as Posada avoids another nagging hamstring/groin injury, he should be able to catch 120 games, DH in 5 more and pinch hit in another 10 or so.

  119. Mike RI December 31st, 2009 at 11:41 am

    Wave your Hat .

    Got to agree. Some on here are too tied into WARS and UZRS. its sickening !.

    We all watch the game. We don’t need WARS and UZRS to determine if a player is good enough to play for the Yankees !

  120. Wave Your Hat December 31st, 2009 at 11:42 am

    “As long as Posada avoids another nagging hamstring/groin injury, he should be able to catch 120 games, DH in 5 more and pinch hit in another 10 or so.”

    Maybe. I certainly hope so. However, he’s no spring chicken. It’s a “keep your fingers crossed” situation, IMO.

  121. Jerkface December 31st, 2009 at 11:42 am

    Another easy example, we have 2 players in the minor leagues that played in triple AAA last season. They play equal defense at CF, who would you hand the starting job to if you had to choose today?

    Player A: .280/10/80
    Player B: .275/10/65

    Just going by this stupid, no information giving tripleslash, you’d probably pick Player A.

    But what if Player A played the entire season at AAA and had 600 PA, but Player B was called up to AAA half way through and only had 300 PA? That means Player B would be more likely to have better rate stats, atleast as it came to power.

    You can put the AVG/HR/RBI triple slash out there, but no one should be using it to form opinions on players.

  122. GreenBeret7 December 31st, 2009 at 11:42 am

    Jerkface
    December 31st, 2009 at 11:38 am
    You brought it up…I didn’t. Your example makes no more sense than mine did.

    Maybe you just didn’t understand the example. Why would I have to take away Damon or Jeters HRs? Or care what their line would be like without them?

    My point was the AVG/HR/RBI triple slash offers virtually no information on if a player is good other than their batting average.

    My example was pretty easy to follow I think.

    ————————————————————

    You can juggle your magic numbers any way you want, but, you’ll have a difficult time convincing the yankee brass or 3’4ths of this board that it means anything.

  123. Ham Fighters December 31st, 2009 at 11:45 am

    If gardner has the same season that melky had last season, then all will be fine!

    Thanks Melky and good luck!

  124. Jerkface December 31st, 2009 at 11:45 am

    Melky played every day. BG had the advantage of having Girardi pick and choose his spots. Melky also had a higher OPS+.

    IMO, you are overly impressed with BG’s UZR. According to UZR, BG is a mixture of Willie Mays and Bob “Death to Flying Things” Ferguson. I just am not buying into that yet.

    I was impressed with more than Gardner’s UZR. He visually appeared to have more range than Melky. The fact that defensive metrics (and plus/minus liked him too, but I don’t know what Melky’s were) backed up my eyes makes me believe that Gardner is a good defender. I saw more errant throws from Melky than I saw good ones in that area.

    Also Gardner shows more patience than Melky, he had a higher on base, they hit for near the same average, but Gardner will steal far more bases, neutralizing Melky’s limited power advantage.

    Melky’s strength was versatility and not being a complete f up at the plate, a good 4th OFer and a capable CFer for a team stacked with talent. I’d still like to get better than him, and Gardner will now get a shot to show it.

    I was more hoping for Austin Jackson to supplant both of them though.

  125. Rich in NJ December 31st, 2009 at 11:46 am

    “Melky played every day. BG had the advantage of having Girardi pick and choose his spots. Melky also had a higher OPS+.”

    OPS+ doesn’t account for SB. wOBA does. Nor does it factor in defense. WAR does.

  126. Jerkface December 31st, 2009 at 11:46 am

    You can juggle your magic numbers any way you want, but, you’ll have a difficult time convincing the yankee brass or 3?4ths of this board that it means anything

    Thankfully Brian Cashman and the Yankee brass seem to be more intune with my way of thinking than yours, so I doubt I have to convince anyone of anything.

  127. Bret the Hitman December 31st, 2009 at 11:47 am

    If you had to choose between Melky or Gardner getting regular playing time at a corner outfield position, you choose Gardner?

  128. joeman December 31st, 2009 at 11:47 am

    have to believe that if the Braves thought Gardner was the better player they would have asked for him instead of Melky & I think the Keys would have traded Gardner instead. The Braves knew who the better player was and got him

  129. GreenBeret7 December 31st, 2009 at 11:48 am

    Wave Your Hat
    December 31st, 2009 at 11:42 am
    “As long as Posada avoids another nagging hamstring/groin injury, he should be able to catch 120 games, DH in 5 more and pinch hit in another 10 or so.”

    Maybe. I certainly hope so. However, he’s no spring chicken. It’s a “keep your fingers crossed” situation, IMO.

    ————————————————————

    He’s fortunate to have such a short catching career, though. Most catchers have 20-25+ years catching by his age with amateur and pro ball figured in. He’s really only had the two major injuries (shoulder and hamstring/groin). He’s in pretty solid shape and he still carries a big bat.

    Like you, I’m hoping that my projected games are on target.

  130. Bret the Hitman December 31st, 2009 at 11:48 am

    joeman
    December 31st, 2009 at 11:47 am
    have to believe that if the Braves thought Gardner was the better player they would have asked for him instead of Melky & I think the Keys would have traded Gardner instead. The Braves knew who the better player was and got him

    Makes the most sense.

  131. Rich in NJ December 31st, 2009 at 11:49 am

    GB7

    “You can juggle your magic numbers any way you want, but, you’ll have a difficult time convincing the yankee brass or 3?4ths of this board that it means anything.”

    Cash is well versed in statistical analysis, and has at least one sabermetric analyst on his staff.

  132. Jerkface December 31st, 2009 at 11:50 am

    If you had to choose between Melky or Gardner getting regular playing time at a corner outfield position, you choose Gardner?

    Assuming this is on the Yankees? Yes. Though I’d put Gardner in centerfield and move Granderson to left.

    What is melky going to provide over Gardner? 6-8 more HRs? Gardner would play better defense, steal more bases, and get on base more.

    Gardner COULD also crash and burn, his swing completely disintigrating before our eyes. But I doubt he’d be worse than Melky 2007-2008 and even if he is, so what? Toss him overboard and find someone else.

    Melky got 4 years to show what he got, and he might just be a marginal major league centerfielder.

    I’d like to see what GArdner has, and its easy to try him out in this lineup.

  133. Rich in NJ December 31st, 2009 at 11:50 am

    “have to believe that if the Braves thought Gardner was the better player they would have asked for him instead of Melky & I think the Keys would have traded Gardner instead. The Braves knew who the better player was and got him”

    No you don’t. After the trade, Cash emphasized that Vazquez’s salary was partially offset by what Melky would have received in arbitration. So it could be that the Yankees insisted on including Melky.

  134. GreenBeret7 December 31st, 2009 at 11:51 am

    Jerkface
    December 31st, 2009 at 11:46 am
    You can juggle your magic numbers any way you want, but, you’ll have a difficult time convincing the yankee brass or 3?4ths of this board that it means anything

    Thankfully Brian Cashman and the Yankee brass seem to be more intune with my way of thinking than yours, so I doubt I have to convince anyone of anything.

    ————————————————————

    They see a GG quality 2nd baseman that’s a high average quality run producer hitting in the 7th spot. Name five better in baseball.

  135. Jerkface December 31st, 2009 at 11:51 am

    The Braves knew who the better player was and got him

    No, the braves THOUGHT melky was the better player. Who actually is the better player is left to be seen. Plenty of teams make mistakes. Thats baseball.

  136. GreenBeret7 December 31st, 2009 at 11:53 am

    NYY isn’t going to move Cano just because he doesn’t walk as much as you like.

  137. RayVT December 31st, 2009 at 11:53 am

    I just thought of something! LOL! Maybe we can take a vote to see who wants Gardner in LF or CF for 2010. Then we can bookmark it so when he plays & sucks those same people can’t cry out asking for Melky back or Hoffman or how Cash failed us by not signing Holliday!

    Gardner is a good runner. He has issues even stealing bases and running them. He was put in several times last year to steal a base and he didn’t even attempt it. I know he will learn more by playing as does everyone, but most people forget that Melky is younger than Gardner. Also, why can’t Gardner learn how to bunt?? When I saw Gardner in Tampa last ST he was swinging from his heals trying to pull everything and hit it out. Well he did pop a few, but the pitchers he hit them against were brutal. (Remember most of the good SP were in the World Games.) Gardner is a hitter who doesn’t know his assets or his limitations. A better than average PR and a spot defensive replacement for a very weak OF. IMO, Hoffman has a much higher upside than Gardner and will be in LF if Yanks don’t sign someone better.

  138. Jerkface December 31st, 2009 at 11:53 am

    They see a GG quality 2nd baseman that’s a high average quality run producer hitting in the 7th spot. Name five better in baseball.

    Oh my god, have you been arguing with me this entire time about Robinson Cano, whom I like and have no problem with?

    You really are daft. My entire previous argument was only based around Tex’s Friend’s use of the AVG/HR/RBI tripleslash as a defense of melky cabrera, when it should not be used as a defense of ANYTHING.

  139. CB December 31st, 2009 at 11:54 am

    “He was also injured for a month after OPSing .900 for 2 straight months.”

    These two months are rapidly approaching two of the more legendary months in recent Yankee’s history.

    It is remarkable how with this player, people who would outright scoff and dismiss 120 PA as a small sample are giving so much import this brief period of time.

    It is very puzzling.

  140. stuckey December 31st, 2009 at 11:55 am

    “At least with Melky, you have more of a track record on which to base in order to trust him with more regular playing time.”

    Congratulations, you just advanced a compelling argument to never give young players significant player time.

  141. stuckey December 31st, 2009 at 11:56 am

    “I think they made a mistake, myself. They need to now go outside to find a LF, or live with a black hole in the 9 spot.”

    If by “black hole” you mean likely league average or better, than I agree.

  142. Jerkface December 31st, 2009 at 11:56 am

    The poster you railed against merely said that a Cano-Melky 1-2 punch could be frustrating. Which, in the context of the Yankee lineup, is in no ways a false statement.

    Cano and Melky both swing at a lot of pitches and don’t walk much, so watching them can be frustrating because you only ever want your players to succeed, and Cano+Melky will fail more than any other 1-2 on the yankees. (their OBP is lower than everyone on the yankees, so you’ll watch more outs from them than hits or walks)

    That does not mean Cano is a bad player, Cano-Anyone but melky is probably an enjoyable 1-2 to watch.

    Cano is an amazing player, but being an amazing player doesn’t mean he is not frustrating at times.

  143. pat December 31st, 2009 at 11:56 am

    Reading Chad’s post (good one) and through the comments above, Alex really did have a pretty big moment (for better or worse) every month of 2009. Amazing what can be accomplished when you stop being young, stupid and naive and trying to live up to what others expect from you. :wink:

    Random thought:

    We’ve heard that K. Long has worked with Swisher this off season, has offered his services to Granderson and will be working with Alex and Tex next week.

    I would hope Gardner made arrangements to spend a little quality time with K. Long too and bunting and slapping the ball around is the primary focus.

    Some players improve with everyday play and others get exposed. TBD on which of those categories Gardner falls into.

  144. GreenBeret7 December 31st, 2009 at 11:57 am

    People yammer on about Cano not walking and wanting him traded are the same types that would have traded Roberto Clemente and Yogi Berra for swinging at pitches out of the zone and not walking…yet, not striking out much, either.

  145. Rich in NJ December 31st, 2009 at 11:57 am

    “It is remarkable how with this player, people who would outright scoff and dismiss 120 PA as a small sample are giving so much import this brief period of time.”

    Those two months comprise over 25% of Gardner’s ML AB. Who knows what they will ultimately mean, but it provides some basis for wanting to see a larger sample.

  146. stuckey December 31st, 2009 at 11:58 am

    “It is remarkable how with this player, people who would outright scoff and dismiss 120 PA as a small sample are giving so much import this brief period of time.”

    Which people are those CB?

    By this do you mean this forum includes both people who like Gardner AND people who would scoff at small sample sizes?

    You positive they are the same people?

  147. GreenBeret7 December 31st, 2009 at 11:58 am

    Cano’s frustrating at times? So is Jeter, Teixeira and Rodriguez at times.

  148. Jerkface December 31st, 2009 at 11:59 am

    It is remarkable how with this player, people who would outright scoff and dismiss 120 PA as a small sample are giving so much import this brief period of time.

    It is very puzzling.

    You and others are making a bigger deal out of it in the opposite fashion than anyone using it positively. Gardner had 2 good months, its not like he was hot garbage the entire season, his ending line was very close to Melky’s. Hidden or not, played in the most ideal conditions or not, Gardner had positive contributions to the 2009 yankees.

    Melky did as well.

    But now Melky isn’t here, and Gardner will be playing for a shot at the starting lineup. If he gets it, I’d like to see him do well, like in those 2 months.

    No one is writing a thesis on Gardner as the CFer of forever on here.

  149. Jerkface December 31st, 2009 at 12:00 pm

    People yammer on about Cano not walking and wanting him traded are the same types that would have traded Roberto Clemente and Yogi Berra for swinging at pitches out of the zone and not walking…yet, not striking out much, either.

    Cano’s frustrating at times? So is Jeter, Teixeira and Rodriguez at times.

    Are you just grandpaing out here now? Just arguing off against nobody?

  150. Wave Your Hat December 31st, 2009 at 12:00 pm

    “OPS+ doesn’t account for SB. wOBA does. Nor does it factor in defense. WAR does.”

    I’m aware of all that. That’s why I addressed the UZR issue, and brought up the fact that Gardner’s PA’s weren’t random but selected by Girardi, which almost certainly skewed BG’s offensive numbers higher when compared to Melky’s.

    Per CB, the Fielding Bible had Melky better defensively than Gardner, and I give CB a lot of credibility.

    I’m actually a supporter of defensive stats like UZR and +/-. I’ve had a number of nasty spats with SJ44 and others about their usefulness.

    But, I just don’t believe they are sufficiently understood yet to completely disbelieve your eyes when you actually watch a player every day. Abreu I thought was terrible defensively, and UZR supported that. Same with Jeter (though I wouldn’t say “terrible” in that case) for a while. On the other hand, UZR says Jason Bay is terrible defensively, but haven seen him play a lot now I don’t think he is as bad as UZR claims.

    As for BG, he has great speed snd range, no doubt. But, I think he sometimes takes bad routes and his arm isn’t as good as Melky’s. So, as I say, for now I’m not buying into these UZR claims for BG.

    As for the SB’s, they attract the eye, but don’t turn into as many runs as you intuitively think they do. They are worthwhile but not definitive.

  151. john December 31st, 2009 at 12:01 pm

    Damons steal and arods double off lidge should be in there, whoever won that game was going to probably win the series. That was the biggest moment of the world series, you cannot leave that out

    also Arod’s first AB back because in my mind they treated that game as if it were opening day back in baltimore. they took of from there

  152. Jerkface December 31st, 2009 at 12:01 pm

    Per CB, the Fielding Bible had Melky better defensively than Gardner, and I give CB a lot of credibility.

    Find me this, CB said GRANDERSON was better. Not Melky. Atleast recently.

  153. randy l. December 31st, 2009 at 12:02 pm

    “Cervelli replaces Molina and Mike Rivera replaces Cervelli as the #3 catcher. I’d say that’s quite an improvement.”

    gb7-

    i guess it all depends on how you value cervelli. for whatever reason, i’m not as impressed with him as others are on the blog. it was a small sample last year.

    as for rivera, he’s never caught anyone on the yankees. i don’t seem him really knowing the starters if he has to come up as a replacement.

    as wave your hat said, the yankees are making a bet that we’ll just have to live with. if posada catches 100 plus games ad is ready for the playoffs , they’ll win the bet.

    if posada is out a lot, i think catching will become a weak spot.

  154. Yankee Trader December 31st, 2009 at 12:02 pm

    “They see a GG quality 2nd baseman that’s a high average quality run producer hitting in the 7th spot. Name five better in baseball.”

    That’s easy. There’s:
    Chase Utley
    Aaron Hill
    Then………………………………..

    Nope, can’t do it!!

    GB7- Glad you’re feeling better. Remember this is a NO SMOKING blog site. Best wishes to you and your family and everyone on this blog for a Happy and Healthy New Year.

  155. blake December 31st, 2009 at 12:02 pm

    Cano is a little better pitch recognition and a little better concentration away from being a top 20 player.  I think he makes great strides in 2010.

  156. Bret the Hitman December 31st, 2009 at 12:02 pm

    I’m getting entirely annoyed with the statistical overkill here regarding Melky and Gardner.

    I watched Melky terrorize the Angels in the ALCS.

    I watched Gardner look lost against quality playoff pitching.

    If you have a question mark in LF, you don’t answer it with Gardner over Melky.

    Cashman didn’t force Melky over Gardner in that Vazquez package. If he did, apparently he didn’t watch the playoffs.

    Who’s the greater risk as an everyday player, Melky or Gardner?

    It’s Gardner and I don’t need some stat or set of stats to tell me that.

    It’s flippin’ obvious.

  157. joeman December 31st, 2009 at 12:03 pm

    Jerkface December 31st, 2009 at 11:51 am

    The Braves knew who the better player was and got him

    No, the braves THOUGHT melky was the better player. Who actually is the better player is left to be seen. Plenty of teams make mistakes. Thats baseball.

    ————————————————

    when it comes to judging player talent I have to believe that the Braves front office can do this better that anyone of us here

  158. Jerkface December 31st, 2009 at 12:04 pm

    if posada is out a lot, i think catching will become a weak spot.

    Montero will start the season at AAA. IF Posada injures himself in the second half it would not be unfeasible to see montero behind the plate and Tony Pena/Girardi calling pitches from the dugout in the August/September.

    Not the best scenario, but if he does well at AAA, not unlikely as well.

  159. saucY December 31st, 2009 at 12:04 pm

    chicks in Atlanta dig the long ball, apparently.

    IMO, there’s really not much difference between the production of the 2. it’s why i’m puzzled why we were so content with Melky listed on our depth chart for LF, but once he was traded a bunch of folks here started clamoring that we need to sign a LF.

    Melky got sent to the minors in 2008 and I believe is younger (right?). Both are still question marks if you ask me.

    And again, we have that Hoffmann dude now and I don’t think we’re sending Bruney away if the Yankees didn’t have high hopes for him.

    I’m ready for this season to start!

  160. vinny-b (NJ and Granderson - thank you Cashman!) December 31st, 2009 at 12:05 pm

    jon heyman (aka the jerk) reported last week, the yankees like Granderson in LF. And Gardner in CF.

    whatever clown

  161. Rich in NJ December 31st, 2009 at 12:06 pm

    “when it comes to judging player talent I have to believe that the Braves front office can do this better that anyone of us here”

    And you know that the Braves had a choice between Melky and Gardner because….

  162. Bret the Hitman December 31st, 2009 at 12:07 pm

    I’m growing to hate Brett Gardner on a Bubba Crosby level.

  163. Jerkface December 31st, 2009 at 12:07 pm

    when it comes to judging player talent I have to believe that the Braves front office can do this better that anyone of us here

    Brian Sabean gave Barry Zito one of the richest contracts in baseball, does that mean he is a good player? The cubs traded away Milton Bradley for Carlos Silva, is Carlos Silva a better player than Milton Bradley?

    If we just decree that any move made by a front office is better than any fan idea, well, then it certainly kills the baseball discussion right?

  164. Wave Your Hat December 31st, 2009 at 12:07 pm

    “Find me this, CB said GRANDERSON was better. Not Melky. Atleast recently.”

    That was my recollection. CB was on here a minute ago and can speak for himself, though. If my memory was wrong I apologize.

  165. Erin December 31st, 2009 at 12:08 pm

    pat
    December 31st, 2009 at 11:56 am
    Random thought:

    We’ve heard that K. Long has worked with Swisher this off season, has offered his services to Granderson and will be working with Alex and Tex next week.

    I would hope Gardner made arrangements to spend a little quality time with K. Long too and bunting and slapping the ball around is the primary focus.

    *********************
    pat, I was wondering the same thing. When I first read the “How K. Long is spending his winter” article the first thing I thought of was “I wonder if he’ll be working with Gardner”. Maybe the Yankees were reluctant to send him to see GGBG if they weren’t exactly sure whether he’d be on the team. But I wonder if they’ll set something up now.

  166. GreenBeret7 December 31st, 2009 at 12:09 pm

    randy l.
    December 31st, 2009 at 12:02 pm
    “Cervelli replaces Molina and Mike Rivera replaces Cervelli as the #3 catcher. I’d say that’s quite an improvement.”

    gb7-

    i guess it all depends on how you value cervelli. for whatever reason, i’m not as impressed with him as others are on the blog. it was a small sample last year.

    as for rivera, he’s never caught anyone on the yankees. i don’t seem him really knowing the starters if he has to come up as a replacement.

    ————————————————————

    Cervelli can’t posibly be as bad on offense as Molina and his defense is nearly the same. As far as rivera goes, he has caught Sabathia. He’s a stop gap much as Kevin Cash and Chris Stewart were last year. Will Cervelli continue to improve his offense? I have no idea, but, I also don’t know if he won’t. Catching will not be that big of an issue unless it ends up like it did in April and May of ’09.

  167. Jerkface December 31st, 2009 at 12:09 pm

    Melky Cabrera career OPS by playoff series:

    DET .000
    CLE .563
    MIN .333
    LAA .940
    PHI .308

    Note this is OPS not average or anything

    I’m sure Cashman saw the lack of playoff consistency, and decided to move in another direction.

  168. joeman December 31st, 2009 at 12:09 pm

    Bret the Hitman December 31st, 2009 at 12:07 pm

    I’m growing to hate Brett Gardner on a Bubba Crosby level.
    ———————————-
    LMAO….already there

  169. stuckey December 31st, 2009 at 12:10 pm

    “I watched Gardner look lost against quality playoff pitching.”

    So a week against the Angels trumps ALL the weeks we’ve all watched Cabrera look lost against ANY sort of pitching, including weeks in 2009?

    Now I actually like Cabrera, and I advocated him getting the starting job last April. But to use 6 games as your evidence that Cabrera will ALWAYS be the superior player to Gardner is just severely lacking…

  170. Wave Your Hat December 31st, 2009 at 12:10 pm

    “Montero will start the season at AAA. IF Posada injures himself in the second half it would not be unfeasible to see montero behind the plate and Tony Pena/Girardi calling pitches from the dugout in the August/September.”

    I have seen nothing which suggests Montero is close to being ready to catch in the majors. I think you are reading too much into the promotion to AAA.

  171. Jerkface December 31st, 2009 at 12:11 pm

    Gardner was on XM Radio shortly after the WS and said that he and K Long have a program for him to follow in the winter, and that he recognizes what he has to work on and will do it.

    I have hope that the plan included learning a new swing. I heard you have to swing around 3000 times for the body to get the muscle memory down.

    I am also now purchasing the fielding bible, so I dont have to rely on second hand information. Though it shames me to pay 20 dollars for essentially a book of potentially made up stats.

  172. blake December 31st, 2009 at 12:11 pm

    I think the Yankees plan on finding a replacement for LF and liked Gardner better as a bench/pinch runner than Melky. Melky is a better everyday player than Gardner but Melky was about to get more expensive and Gardner can do more things off the bench with his speed.

  173. Bret the Hitman December 31st, 2009 at 12:11 pm

    Jerkface
    December 31st, 2009 at 12:09 pm
    Melky Cabrera career OPS by playoff series:

    DET .000
    CLE .563
    MIN .333
    LAA .940
    PHI .308

    Note this is OPS not average or anything

    I’m sure Cashman saw the lack of playoff consistency, and decided to move in another direction.

    Yeah, and I’m sure the Braves missed Gardner looking like a little kid out there in the World Series but decided to move in a different direction.

  174. Wave Your Hat December 31st, 2009 at 12:11 pm

    “Melky Cabrera career OPS by playoff series:

    DET .000
    CLE .563
    MIN .333
    LAA .940
    PHI .308 ”

    You can perform this little parlor trick with Ted Williams, Barry Bonds or who have you. It is completely meaningless.

  175. randy l. December 31st, 2009 at 12:12 pm

    i think melky is the better player over gardner, and i liked having both.

    vasquez is very good though , so i can’t be upset about that trade.

  176. GeorgeInJax December 31st, 2009 at 12:12 pm

    Unless a deal is done before ST Gardner figures to start in the OF. He’s the guy we have. And for the money he gets, he is better than all the free agents in his price range.

    Hoffman I don’t know much about & is currently batting .245 in the Dominican Winter League. He obviously has some tools, but he’s likely slotted as backup OF.

    There will be some bench/backup players added.

  177. stuckey December 31st, 2009 at 12:13 pm

    “I’m growing to hate Brett Gardner on a Bubba Crosby level.”

    Gardner hasn’t played i a game since November. His career stats have been static up to that point. If you’re “hatred” is “growing” in the off-season, you’re letting the opinion of fans who advocate for him affect YOUR opinion OF him.

    Which, you know, is pretty childish.

  178. GreenBeret7 December 31st, 2009 at 12:13 pm

    Yankee Trader
    December 31st, 2009 at 12:02 pm
    “They see a GG quality 2nd baseman that’s a high average quality run producer hitting in the 7th spot. Name five better in baseball.”

    That’s easy. There’s:
    Chase Utley
    Aaron Hill
    Then………………………………..

    Nope, can’t do it!!

    GB7- Glad you’re feeling better. Remember this is a NO SMOKING blog site. Best wishes to you and your family and everyone on this blog for a Happy and Healthy New Year.

    ————————————————————

    thanks, Trader. one cigarette in almost 20 days is a Hell of a drop from 2 and a half packs a day for the last 43 years.

    Thanks for the kind words, the “No smoking sign” and the well wishes. Hope that you and your family have a safe and happy holiday season. It officially ends on 8 January.

  179. Bret the Hitman December 31st, 2009 at 12:13 pm

    blake
    December 31st, 2009 at 12:11 pm
    I think the Yankees plan on finding a replacement for LF and liked Gardner better as a bench/pinch runner than Melky.

    I agree here.

  180. Frank December 31st, 2009 at 12:14 pm

    “I’m sure Cashman saw the lack of playoff consistency, and decided to move in another direction”

    If he did that, he’ll sell Swisher to Japan. He’s not dumb enough to base a player’s value on such a small sample.

  181. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day December 31st, 2009 at 12:14 pm

    Gardner is not going to be the LF if Cash has anything to say about it.

  182. Jerkface December 31st, 2009 at 12:15 pm

    You can perform this little parlor trick with Ted Williams, Barry Bonds or who have you. It is completely meaningless.

    No kidding, so who knew that 1 playoff series was meaningless and that the Braves or Cashman probably did not hinge this trade on Melky Cabrera’s playoff series against the Angels?

    Cashman has had a close look at Melky in the minors and majors for more than 6 years.

    They traded him for a very good pitcher, but I’m betting Cashman is hurting more from Vizcaino than Melky.

  183. john December 31st, 2009 at 12:15 pm

    Brett the Hitman take a look at this: if you project Brett Gardners stats to the same amount of at bats as Jacoby Ellsbury

    Average, Hits, 2B, HR, RBI, BB

    Gardner- .270, 15, 7.5, 58, 65
    Ellsbury- .301, 27, 8, 60, 49

    doubles and average is the only area where ellsbury had the clear upper hand. im not saying that brett gardner is just as good as Jacoby, because he isn’t. I’m saying that Brett Gardner is not as bad as people think

  184. Chip December 31st, 2009 at 12:15 pm

    Just a couple of points from other strings:

    1. I would have no problem adding George Sherrill but I a) don’t think the Yankees want to do another trade after making two very significant ones already and b) don’t think he’s totally needed

    I do think the Yankees need another LHRP but think it could be a journeyman type or minor league free agent to stash at AAA just in case they need an arm in the event that Boone Logan and Damaso Marte have injury issues.

    2. My top two choices for the OF would either be Ankeil (LF) Granderson (CF) Swisher (RF) or Swisher (LF) Granderson (CF) Church (RF)

    3. I think Johnny Damon will be this year’s Bobby Abreu and end up having to take a very low contract if he wants to continue his career – if we get to about a week out and he doesn’t have a team and the Yankees haven’t added an OF then he could return but certainly not before then.

    4. I do not trust Marlon Byrd and certainly don’t want a platoon of Gardner and Reed Johnson. If you’re going to go with a second or third level guy, better to go with a LH bat who can take advantage of the short porch instead of a RH bat.

    5. I would like the Yankees to sign Fernando Tatis as a bench player. With Nick Johnson around there’s no need for Juan Miranda on the bench – what the team needs is a RH bat off the bench – Tatis is a RH Eric Hinske with slightly better flexibility in the field.

  185. stuckey December 31st, 2009 at 12:15 pm

    “You can perform this little parlor trick with Ted Williams, Barry Bonds or who have you. It is completely meaningless.”

    Not in response to the argument that most compelling argument in favor of Cabrera over Gardner is his performance against LAA it’s not.

  186. john December 31st, 2009 at 12:16 pm

    and i forgot hits which would be

    Gardner- 168
    Jacoby- 188

  187. Rich in NJ December 31st, 2009 at 12:16 pm

    “Yeah, and I’m sure the Braves missed Gardner looking like a little kid out there in the World Series but decided to move in a different direction.”

    I’m sure the Braves, like any well run organization, base major decisions on minute sample sizes.

  188. Bret the Hitman December 31st, 2009 at 12:16 pm

    stuckey
    December 31st, 2009 at 12:13 pm
    “I’m growing to hate Brett Gardner on a Bubba Crosby level.”

    Gardner hasn’t played i a game since November. His career stats have been static up to that point. If you’re “hatred” is “growing” in the off-season, you’re letting the opinion of fans who advocate for him affect YOUR opinion OF him.

    Which, you know, is pretty childish.

    No these fans are trying to use stats to trump visual observations that are blatantly obvious.

    For example, Brett Gardner looks like a little leaguer against quality pitchers.

  189. CB December 31st, 2009 at 12:16 pm

    “this year i see problems at catcher and the outfield unless someone is signed who creates some depth . the ideal guy that gives depth is a guy that there just doesn’t seem like there’s room for him like swisher last year.”

    randy,

    I agree with you and we’ve discussed this before. However, the yankees issue with injury and risk is particularly difficult.

    So much of what has made the team so good (both last year and historically) is that they get tremendous production from spots on the field most teams can’t even come close to matching – particularly those up the middle.

    But if a Jeter or Posada get hurt they truly can’t be replaced by “depth.” There is so much scarcity at those positions that even with “good” backups will be huge fall offs.

    That’s partly why I think the best way the yankees can stratify risk as long as the older players are core contributors is to implement slack capacity at other starting positions.

    This is a lot of what Teixeira provided them last year. In theory, Swisher and Nady would have been ok last year. But then Alex gets hurt and Posada misses a month.

    They definitely need better backups than Cody Ransom, but Teixeira provided them a significant amount of productive capacity that they could fall back on when the older players got hurt.

    I think this is the difficult thing for the yankee

  190. Wave Your Hat December 31st, 2009 at 12:16 pm

    I think the Yanks liked the Vazquez deal and liked dropping Melky’s potentially $3-4MM salary. I don’t see how you conclude the deal indicates the Yanks liked BG over MC.

  191. Jerkface December 31st, 2009 at 12:16 pm

    If he did that, he’ll sell Swisher to Japan. He’s not dumb enough to base a player’s value on such a small sample.

    Some times I think most of you don’t ‘get’ me. I was being completely facetious to point out the ridiculousness of using 1 playoff series and 1 postseason as a barometer of a player.

    p.s. brett gardner vs LAA 2009 postseason 667 .667 .667 1.333

    OH SNAP

  192. joeman December 31st, 2009 at 12:17 pm

    stuckey December 31st, 2009 at 12:13 pm

    “I’m growing to hate Brett Gardner on a Bubba Crosby level.”

    Gardner hasn’t played i a game since November. His career stats have been static up to that point. If you’re “hatred” is “growing” in the off-season, you’re letting the opinion of fans who advocate for him affect YOUR opinion OF him.

    Which, you know, is pretty childish.
    ———————————————-

    started last season when he was named starting CFer..which didn’t last long

  193. RayVT December 31st, 2009 at 12:17 pm

    I’m not sure how UZR plays things. Melky played a more shallow CF than Gardner, which allowed him to take away more singles and utilize his arm to keep runners from going to 3B from 1B on a single. Gardner played deeper because he could come in faster and his arm was not a threat to the runners even if he were shallow.

    Also, Melky was a switch hitter who hit LH better than RH but Gardner took away some of those ABs early in the year. Also, Melky played a lot more than Gardner because they had no other options for a long while, so he wasn’t as fresh as Gardner either. I truly believe Melky will flourish in NL. I also hope that Hoffman/Gardner/someone else is the answer this year.

  194. john December 31st, 2009 at 12:17 pm

    Average, Hits, 2B, HR, RBI, BB

    Gardner- .270, 168, 15, 7.5, 58, 65
    Ellsbury- .301, 188, 27, 8, 60, 49

    and there you are in complete

  195. Jerkface December 31st, 2009 at 12:18 pm

    I think the Yanks liked the Vazquez deal and liked dropping Melky’s potentially $3-4MM salary. I don’t see how you conclude the deal indicates the Yanks liked BG over MC.

    Did I say that? I just don’t think the trade indicates Melky is better than Gardner.

  196. Bret the Hitman December 31st, 2009 at 12:18 pm

    Brett Gardner looks like a little leaguer against quality pitchers. I read it in Baseball America, BP, FanGraphs, the baseball bible even the Holy Bible. Happy now? Now I have PROOF that Garnder looks like a little leaguer against quality pitchers.

  197. Uncle Ellsworth (Expert textpert choking smokers, don't you think the joker laughs at you) December 31st, 2009 at 12:18 pm

    TASTES GREAT!!!

    LESS FILLING!!!

  198. pat December 31st, 2009 at 12:18 pm

    “I’m sure Cashman saw the lack of playoff consistency, and decided to move in another direction”

    Cash has gone on record saying he doesn’t let the small sample size of the postseason affect a players value to him for better or for worse.

  199. Rich in NJ December 31st, 2009 at 12:19 pm

    “No these fans are trying to use stats to trump visual observations that are blatantly obvious.

    For example, Brett Gardner looks like a little leaguer against quality pitchers.”

    Actually, it’s the opposite. Your selection bias is causing you to ignore Gardner’s successes and magnify his failures.

  200. Erin December 31st, 2009 at 12:19 pm

    Jerkface
    December 31st, 2009 at 12:11 pm
    Gardner was on XM Radio shortly after the WS and said that he and K Long have a program for him to follow in the winter, and that he recognizes what he has to work on and will do it.

    ************************
    That answers my question. Thanks!

  201. Jerkface December 31st, 2009 at 12:19 pm

    For example, Brett Gardner looks like a little leaguer against quality pitchers.

    Career .400 hitter combined vs Mark Beurhle and Cliff Lee

  202. Patrick December 31st, 2009 at 12:19 pm

    It’s hard to say which player will be more valuable in 2010 – Cabrera or Gardner.

    Gardner was playing very well before he got injured, it’s possible he could have continued like that for the rest of the season. Cabrera had a good enough season but despite his young age he’s had a lot of opportunities in the majors and hasn’t shown much.

    However, we shouldn’t discount that Girardi gave Cabrera the starting job and stuck with him for most of the season. That more than anything tells me that Cabrera is a more complete player.

    It’s possible that Gardner outproduces Melky next year but I’m not sure how likely it is.

  203. Wave Your Hat December 31st, 2009 at 12:20 pm

    “OH SNAP”

    Jerkface, despite our occasional differences you seem like a reasonable guy. Please don’t go there.

  204. Rich in NJ December 31st, 2009 at 12:21 pm

    “I think the Yanks liked the Vazquez deal and liked dropping Melky’s potentially $3-4MM salary. I don’t see how you conclude the deal indicates the Yanks liked BG over MC.”

    I used it as an alternative scenario to the declaration that the Braves liked Melky more because they traded for him.

    Neither side knows the truth, but only one side pretends to know.

  205. stuckey December 31st, 2009 at 12:21 pm

    “No these fans are trying to use stats to trump visual observations that are blatantly obvious.

    “For example, Brett Gardner looks like a little leaguer against quality pitchers.”

    Whom doesn’t? Do the Yankees look like the Yankees against Roy Halladay?

    How’d the team look against Cliff Lee?

    But that’s beside the point.

    You knew everything their is to know (right now) about Brett Gardner months ago.

    If your opinion of HIM is being negatively shaped the fact that other fans see things you don’t, then that’s just indefensible.

    Gardner won’t get worse or better depending on fan opinion.

  206. Bret the Hitman December 31st, 2009 at 12:21 pm

    Rich in NJ
    December 31st, 2009 at 12:19 pm
    “No these fans are trying to use stats to trump visual observations that are blatantly obvious.

    For example, Brett Gardner looks like a little leaguer against quality pitchers.”

    Actually, it’s the opposite. Your selection bias is causing you to ignore Gardner’s successes and magnify his failures.

    Magnify his failures? I don’t need to do that for him. He can’t hit good pitching.

  207. Matt December 31st, 2009 at 12:22 pm

    This thread is the 12 days that mattered. Many will agree that the 13th day that mattered is when Sam, Chad, and Josh assumed the leadership of this blog.
    It made for a much better postseason and offseason with many good threads yet to come.

  208. CB December 31st, 2009 at 12:22 pm

    “You and others are making a bigger deal out of it in the opposite fashion than anyone using it positively.”

    Two months is two months. This point has been brought up literally dozens and dozens of times as “evidence” for Gardner.

    And my comment is not directed at any one person in particular. It’s a general thing, as evidenced by articles like those saying that Brett Gardner is a more valuable player than Jason Bay:

    http://mvn.com/pendingpinstrip.....jason-bay/

  209. teddy December 31st, 2009 at 12:22 pm

    i think mo 500 save and 1 rbi was bigger than june errorless streak

  210. Wave Your Hat December 31st, 2009 at 12:22 pm

    “Did I say that? I just don’t think the trade indicates Melky is better than Gardner.”

    It is some evidence that they Braves preferred Melky to Gardner. It is also some evidence that the Yanks preferred Gardner to Melky. But I agree the trade itself doesn’t prove anything either way.

  211. Rich in NJ December 31st, 2009 at 12:23 pm

    “Magnify his failures? I don’t need to do that for him. He can’t hit good pitching.”

    As Jerkface said:

    “Career .400 hitter combined vs Mark Beurhle and Cliff Lee”

    There isn’t a sufficient sample size to make a determination. Why is that so hard to grasp?

  212. joeman December 31st, 2009 at 12:24 pm

    Jerkface December 31st, 2009 at 12:19 pm

    For example, Brett Gardner looks like a little leaguer against quality pitchers.

    Career .400 hitter combined vs Mark Beurhle and Cliff Lee
    —————————————-
    how many AB’s

  213. Patrick December 31st, 2009 at 12:24 pm

    Chip you are the greatest troll ever. About 95% of your posts are you talking about how much you want the Yankees to sign mediocre players. I love your enthusiasm and I have to commend your dedication.

  214. Bret the Hitman December 31st, 2009 at 12:25 pm

    If your opinion of HIM is being negatively shaped the fact that other fans see things you don’t, then that’s just indefensible.

    Gardner won’t get worse or better depending on fan opinion.

    My negative opinion of him is being shaped by one thing and one thing only – he looks like a little leaguer against quality pitchers – regular season – playoffs.

    I’ve never seen Jeter be made to look like a little leaguer against anybody, even Holliday.

    Brett Gardner looked like he wanted to pee his pants in the World Series.

    I don’t need stats to tell me that.

  215. Bret the Hitman December 31st, 2009 at 12:25 pm

    edit: Halladay

  216. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day December 31st, 2009 at 12:25 pm

    CB, if Chapman insists on a major-league deal, would you give it to him? The Yanks clearly like him, but I think they see him as a project and (esp. after the problems with Brackman) I don’t think there is any chance they would do that……even if it meant that he signed with the Sox.

  217. Jerkface December 31st, 2009 at 12:26 pm

    how many AB’s

    Not enough to matter in either direction. I just posted that to suggest that saying Gardner looks lost vs quality pitching is not necessarily true.

  218. blake December 31st, 2009 at 12:26 pm

    If the Yankees get their payroll below 200 million this year isn’t it going to be difficult for them to partake in the “better free agent class of 2011″ and keep the payroll under that number. They are going to need at least 1, maybe 2 starting pitchers and they will likely be considering LF again in addition to re-signing Jeter and Rivera..

  219. Rich in NJ December 31st, 2009 at 12:26 pm

    “how many AB’s”

    You do realize that Gardner’s 375 career AB is too small a sample size to reach a definitive conclusion about his true talent, right?

  220. Bronx Jeers December 31st, 2009 at 12:26 pm

    It´s bizarre thinking of Jeter as an injury risk.

    Kind of like looking in the mirror and seeing grey hair.

    Time marches on right? And then at some point you realize it´s marching over you.

    GB, that´s 784,750 cigarettes. Not quite a million but an impressive run all the same.

  221. Erin December 31st, 2009 at 12:27 pm

    Matt
    December 31st, 2009 at 12:22 pm
    This thread is the 12 days that mattered. Many will agree that the 13th day that mattered is when Sam, Chad, and Josh assumed the leadership of this blog.
    It made for a much better postseason and offseason with many good threads yet to come.

    *********************
    Absolutely.

    Great post :)

  222. Frank December 31st, 2009 at 12:27 pm

    “Neither side knows the truth, but only one side pretends to know”

    Braves were pretty clear that Vizcaino was the central figure in the deal so far as they were concerned. There were even some indications Dunn was more important than Melky. As it stands, Melky either platoons in left with Diaz or is a 4th OF in favor of a better bat the Braves still seem to be looking for. I’d guess Melky may have been more the Yankees idea than the Braves, as it served to help the Yankees a little in terms of budget management and he does not seem all that important to the Braves plans.

  223. joeman December 31st, 2009 at 12:28 pm

    Brett Gardner looked like he wanted to pee his pants in the World Series
    ——————————————
    joba had that look in a lot of games he started last season

  224. Bret the Hitman December 31st, 2009 at 12:28 pm

    Rich in NJ
    December 31st, 2009 at 12:23 pm
    “Magnify his failures? I don’t need to do that for him. He can’t hit good pitching.”

    As Jerkface said:

    “Career .400 hitter combined vs Mark Beurhle and Cliff Lee”

    There isn’t a sufficient sample size to make a determination. Why is that so hard to grasp?

    Some scouts can judge a swing by looking at it.

    How many stats are available on 14-16-17 year old International Free agent signees out of Latin America?

    None, virtually.

    Why is that so hard to grasp?

  225. CB December 31st, 2009 at 12:28 pm

    Granderson was better than Gardner defensively per the Fielding Bible.

    Gardner was better than Melky per the fielding Bible.

  226. Jerkface December 31st, 2009 at 12:28 pm

    I’ve never seen Jeter be made to look like a little leaguer against anybody, even Holliday.

    I have tape of Jeter in little league, care to see?

  227. Bret the Hitman December 31st, 2009 at 12:30 pm

    Frank
    December 31st, 2009 at 12:27 pm
    “Neither side knows the truth, but only one side pretends to know”

    Braves were pretty clear that Vizcaino was the central figure in the deal so far as they were concerned. There were even some indications Dunn was more important than Melky. As it stands, Melky either platoons in left with Diaz or is a 4th OF in favor of a better bat the Braves still seem to be looking for. I’d guess Melky may have been more the Yankees idea than the Braves, as it served to help the Yankees a little in terms of budget management and he does not seem all that important to the Braves plans.

    Save money for what?

    Reed Johnson?

  228. Wave Your Hat December 31st, 2009 at 12:30 pm

    “Granderson was better than Gardner defensively per the Fielding Bible.

    Gardner was better than Melky per the fielding Bible.”

    Then I apologize for the incorrect recollection. Sorry to drag you into it, CB.

  229. austinmac December 31st, 2009 at 12:30 pm

    Wth respect to who is a better player–Melky or Gardner–we can conclude the Yankees thought Melky was better since he ultimately won the CF job and started every playoff game. Gardner is a 4th outfielder. I don’t know how one can watch his swing and think otherwise. My prediction is he will hit under .250 and drawq very few walks. Can the Yankees still win. Yes, but the odds do go down.

  230. Patrick December 31st, 2009 at 12:30 pm

    “Some scouts can judge a swing by looking at it.”

    Indeed but, correct me if I’m wrong, you are not a scout.

  231. Yankee Trader December 31st, 2009 at 12:30 pm

    When all options for LF are analyzed, if one can live with the fall-off in defense, Damon on a one year 5-6M + incentives deal makes the most sense. Gardner/Hoffman can sub for him in the late innings and Damon can play some DH, especially if Johnson gets injured.

    If Damon is seen as a DH in the AL, there are only 2-3 teams that could use a DH and there are much cheaper options than Damon in the likes of Guerrero, Dye, Cust, Thome, etc. I don’t see any NL team in pursuit.

    Stay away from Byrd, unless he would take a one year contract. The likelihood that he will become the next Gary Matthews Jr., away from Arlington,is too much of a gamble.

  232. saucY December 31st, 2009 at 12:31 pm

    TONIGHT!!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AkU9iXdhY4

  233. G. Love December 31st, 2009 at 12:31 pm

    It really cracks me up that some of the more “enlightened” (and I use that word loosely) posters in here are condemning Brett Gardner to a season of failure just because one of their favorite’s got traded. Wah.

    If Gardner gets on base at a .350 clip in the 9 hole, he’s not a black hole. He’s a huge weapon.

    Why the jury isn’t still out on Brett, but we were all supposed to be patient and visualize the greatness that was coming of Melky is a joke.

    When Brett gets as many at bats and chances as Melky then you can make a judgment over which player is better or worse.

    Until then, Brett deserves a shot to show what he could do. I mean, Melky had several shots and failed his way back to AAA and was given additional chances.

    If you’re a real Yankee fan, the least you can do is give Brett the same opportunity.

    If you don’t, then perhaps there are deeper more disturbing reasons why you can’t support Bret Gardner.

    It stopped being Melky vs. Brett the second Melky got traded to Atlanta.

  234. Jerkface December 31st, 2009 at 12:32 pm

    Granderson was better than Gardner defensively per the Fielding Bible.

    Gardner was better than Melky per the fielding Bible.

    The 2009 Fielding Bible is not out yet, so am I correct that this was listed for 2008?

  235. Bret the Hitman December 31st, 2009 at 12:32 pm

    Patrick
    December 31st, 2009 at 12:30 pm
    “Some scouts can judge a swing by looking at it.”

    Indeed but, correct me if I’m wrong, you are not a scout.

    Do I have to be to realize that Brett Gardner is overmatched against good pitchers?

  236. Jerkface December 31st, 2009 at 12:32 pm

    I feel really bad that the Yankees drafted, developed, and promoted a little leaguer :(

  237. Rich in NJ December 31st, 2009 at 12:33 pm

    “Some scouts can judge a swing by looking at it.
    How many stats are available on 14-16-17 year old International Free agent signees out of Latin America?
    None, virtually.
    Why is that so hard to grasp?”

    What percentage of draft picks and IFA become MLs, let alone good ones?

    These scouts are wrong far more often than they are right, in part because of sample size.

    Gardner defied the odds and made the MLs, but his mL career demonstrates that he has trouble adjusting to each new level.

    Is that the case at the ML level? I have no idea, but neither do you.

    That’s why we need a larger sample size.

  238. Frank December 31st, 2009 at 12:33 pm

    Byrd about to sign 3 year deal with Cubs per Rosenthal.

  239. Wave Your Hat December 31st, 2009 at 12:34 pm

    G. Love-

    I don’t think anyone here is anti-Gardner. We all wish him success as a Yankee. The only debate is over how good we think he currently is and how good we think he is likely to become. Seems like a fair subject for discussion in a Yankee blog.

  240. Rich in NJ December 31st, 2009 at 12:35 pm

    “Wth respect to who is a better player–Melky or Gardner–we can conclude the Yankees thought Melky was better since he ultimately won the CF job and started every playoff game.”

    All that tells us is that they thought Melky was better this year. It doesn’t necessarily follow that they thought that judgment was definitive going forward.

  241. Wave Your Hat December 31st, 2009 at 12:35 pm

    “Yankees thought Melky was better since he ultimately won the CF job and started every playoff game.”

    This much seems indisputable.

  242. CB December 31st, 2009 at 12:36 pm

    “if posada is out a lot, i think catching will become a weak spot.”

    randy,

    I agree. But again, no matter who the back up catcher is losing Posada will hurt a great deal, especially this year without Matsui.

    It’s only a matter of degrees. Ideally I really would have liked the team to sign Greg Zaun – but evan at this age I don’t think he would have taken a backup job – he got a starting job with the Brewers.

    The best way to brace against Posada getting hurt is to augment left field.

  243. Bret the Hitman December 31st, 2009 at 12:36 pm

    Rich in NJ
    December 31st, 2009 at 12:33 pm
    “Some scouts can judge a swing by looking at it.
    How many stats are available on 14-16-17 year old International Free agent signees out of Latin America?
    None, virtually.
    Why is that so hard to grasp?”

    What percentage of draft picks and IFA become MLs, let alone good ones?

    These scouts are wrong far more often than they are right, in part because of sample size.

    Gardner defied the odds and made the MLs, but his mL career demonstrates that he has trouble adjusting to each new level.

    Is that the case at the ML level? I have no idea, but neither do you.

    That’s why we need a larger sample size.

    The Yankees didn’t need a larger sample size. They traded top talent for Granderson to be the CF, pushing Gardner to the bench where he belongs.

    Are they gonna move Granderson to LF? What do you think, seriously?

    Are they gonna put Gardner in a corner OF spot? honestly.

  244. Patrick December 31st, 2009 at 12:37 pm

    “Do I have to be to realize that Brett Gardner is overmatched against good pitchers?”

    Yes or you have to have numbers that back up your assertion.

    So far it’s impossible to say that Gardner looks overmatched vs major league pitchers.

    To be fair, it’s also impossible to say that Gardner will ever be an above average hitter or even an average hitter.

  245. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day December 31st, 2009 at 12:37 pm

    CB, good post regarding the core players. The Yanks have been extraordinarily lucky with how good (or dominant) these guys have been for so long….if they lose any of them for a long period, they can’t be replaced. Instead of carrying mediocre insurance policies and having to pay for the priviledge, it’s better to just deal with a situation as it occurs. I do think another way of minimizing risk with the older players is to give them periodic days off…..even if they would rather have their teeth pulled. If there is even the slightest hint of injury, pull the player and give him an extra day or two beyond the point where he could return.

  246. Frank December 31st, 2009 at 12:37 pm

    “Save money for what?

    Reed Johnson?”

    Don’t know. $3M is $3M though. It could mean a platoon partner with Gardner. Could mean that much more available for midseason acquisitions. Could mean a different LF all together if it’s parlayed with money saved by dealing Gaudin/Mitre.

  247. Bret the Hitman December 31st, 2009 at 12:38 pm

    Frank
    December 31st, 2009 at 12:33 pm
    Byrd about to sign 3 year deal with Cubs per Rosenthal.

    Oye vay.

    Melky is better – and cheaper.

  248. Patrick December 31st, 2009 at 12:38 pm

    Bummer that Byrd is off the market, he would have fit LF nicely. But for 3 years? No way in heck

  249. Bret the Hitman December 31st, 2009 at 12:38 pm

    So far it’s impossible to say that Gardner looks overmatched vs major league pitchers.

    :lol:

  250. the gay Yankee fan December 31st, 2009 at 12:39 pm

    The anti-Gardner people here don’t like him because he doesn’t hit homeruns.

    They like homeruns. To them homeruns mean winning.

    They want power up and down the lineup. Power trumps everything else in their minds.

  251. Rich in NJ December 31st, 2009 at 12:39 pm

    “The Yankees didn’t need a larger sample size. They traded top talent for Granderson to be the CF, pushing Gardner to the bench where he belongs.
    Are they gonna move Granderson to LF? What do you think, seriously?
    Are they gonna put Gardner in a corner OF spot? honestly.”

    You are moving the bar.

    None of us have ever said that Gardner will be better than Granderson. The issue was Gardner/Melky.

    Extending your logic, the mere fact that they held on to Gardner and traded Melky means that they like Gardner more.

    Again, I have no idea, but neither do the Melky supporters.

    I don’t know if Granderson will play ultimately play LF. I think he would really have to be bad in CF for that to happen, and I don’t think he will be.

    I think Gardner could open the season in LF.

  252. Jerkface December 31st, 2009 at 12:40 pm

    Melky is better – and cheaper.

    Cheaper? Maybe.
    Better?

    Well durrr

    .283/20/89

    vs

    .274/13/68

    Woops, looks like Byrd is far superior!

  253. austinmac December 31st, 2009 at 12:41 pm

    “All that tells us is that they thought Melky was better this year.”

    Don’t you think that is a pretty good predictor of who will be better this year? Gardner is what he is. If the Yankees are very lucky he will be Scott Posednik, but although I am not a scout as is sure to be pointed out, I can tell a good swing from a bad one. Gardner’s is ugly. It is all arms and no lower half. That’s why he pops up over and over to left field.

  254. randy l. December 31st, 2009 at 12:41 pm

    “Cervelli can’t posibly be as bad on offense as Molina and his defense is nearly the same.”

    gb7-

    cervelli had what i call puppy energy, i like to see a player settle down a bit before making a final judgement.

  255. CB December 31st, 2009 at 12:42 pm

    “if Chapman insists on a major-league deal, would you give it to him? ”

    Betsy,

    Chapman really does not need a major league deal. It would be very silly to give him one. There is almost no real benefit to Chapman himself in getting a major league deal in particular because of his talent. On a major league deal his money would then get taxed under the luxury tax.

    So I would really try not to do that for a host of reasons.

  256. pat December 31st, 2009 at 12:42 pm

    Ken_Rosenthal Marlon Byrd close on three-year deal with Cubs.
    19 minutes ago from web

  257. Bret the Hitman December 31st, 2009 at 12:42 pm

    the gay Yankee fan
    December 31st, 2009 at 12:39 pm
    The anti-Gardner people here don’t like him because he doesn’t hit homeruns.

    They like homeruns. To them homeruns mean winning.

    They want power up and down the lineup. Power trumps everything else in their minds.

    :lol:

  258. Jerkface December 31st, 2009 at 12:43 pm

    Don’t you think that is a pretty good predictor of who will be better this year?

    No.

    Old veteran guy was the starter for 2009
    Backup guy was AAA rookie who is being groomed

    Well the old veteran was the starter in 2009, so I guess they probably think he is going to be better going forward.

    *2010 arrives*
    *veteran shocked to find that he has been replaced by younger, potentially better alternative*
    *baseball*

  259. Wave Your Hat December 31st, 2009 at 12:43 pm

    “The best way to brace against Posada getting hurt is to augment left field.”

    I would agree but I’m not convinced the Yanks do.

    Looks like MH is going to the Cards after all. If the Yanks were willing to spend $8MM I would have thought they’d been involved in the bidding for Cameron. If the Yanks were willing to spend $6MM, they could have been in on DeRosa.

    Doesn’t leave a big impact player (I think Damon goes for more than $6MM). Looking more and more like a Dye, Gomes, Thames type solution.

  260. Bret the Hitman December 31st, 2009 at 12:45 pm

    Looking more and more like a Dye, Gomes, Thames type solution.

    —-

    Which is why I thought Cashman should’ve slid in Gardner in that package and kept Melky.

  261. the gay Yankee fan December 31st, 2009 at 12:45 pm

    “Gardner’s is ugly. It is all arms and no lower half. That’s why he pops up over and over to left field.”

    Right, and as we know he will never improve. Never mind that everybody has the potential to adjust and improve. Everybody except Gardner.

    It’ll only go down hill from here for him. May not even get a hit all season.

  262. Patrick December 31st, 2009 at 12:45 pm

    Bret are you being obtuse on purpose or is it just your nature?

    I can’t wait until school is back in session so all the kiddies can stop filling this blog with nonsense.

  263. Rich in NJ December 31st, 2009 at 12:45 pm

    My post keeps getting eated.

  264. CB December 31st, 2009 at 12:45 pm

    “The 2009 Fielding Bible is not out yet, so am I correct that this was listed for 2008?”

    No, that is 2009 data.

    The new Fielding Bible will not be out until February 2010, I believe.

    However, the fielding bible data comes out earlier as part of the Bill James Handbook 2010. And the new bill james handbook is out.

    Also, rather then spending $20 on the fielding bible you may want to look into subscribing to bill james on line rather than buying the paper book.

  265. rconn23 December 31st, 2009 at 12:46 pm

    G. Love,

    I’ve never understood the anti-Gardner sentiment either. Then again, I’ve never understood how some supposed fans seemingly root against certain players ,i.e. Cano, Posada, Swisher, Damon.

    Opitmally, Gardner is a fourth outfielder for the Yankees. But he was certainly just as servicable a player as Cabrera was last year, and was of course, by any measure the better defender of the two.

    Both Cabrera and Garnder are better served coming off the bench. But this year’s Yankees team has better starting pitching depth than last year’s squad and if Gardner plays left field, the outfield defense – with Granderson in CF – will be substantially better.

  266. Bret the Hitman December 31st, 2009 at 12:46 pm

    Patrick
    December 31st, 2009 at 12:45 pm
    Bret are you being obtuse on purpose or is it just your nature?

    I can’t wait until school is back in session so all the kiddies can stop filling this blog with nonsense.

    Obtuse.

    :lol:

  267. Frank December 31st, 2009 at 12:47 pm

    “My post keeps getting eated”

    Guess we can safely assume nonexistent words aren’t cause.

  268. Uncle Ellsworth (Expert textpert choking smokers, don't you think the joker laughs at you) December 31st, 2009 at 12:49 pm

    What about the day of REAL FANS v FAKE FANS FISTFIGHT!

    OR

    THe French Fry Chronicles

    OR
    the Grass roots ESPN Protest when The “Boli Boli” chant was heard.

    Or the One millionth post?

    Or Whe GBs Great Great Grand Twins arrived?

    Tony Sanchez getting drafted?

    and countless others

    Happy New Year LoHudders!!!!

  269. austinmac December 31st, 2009 at 12:49 pm

    I didn’t realize Melky was “an old veteran guy”. He’s about the same age as Gardner. Hasn’t Cashman admitted to a hole in left field? That hole is, unfortunately, Gardner. His batting deficiency will be greatly exposed this year I fear.

  270. Frank December 31st, 2009 at 12:50 pm

    * THE cause

  271. Mike RI December 31st, 2009 at 12:50 pm

    Marlon Byrd – is crossed off the list

    that leaves us

    Damon
    Dye

  272. Patrick December 31st, 2009 at 12:51 pm

    that leaves us

    Damon
    Dye

    Neither of those players are options to play LF next year.

  273. Rich in NJ December 31st, 2009 at 12:52 pm

    There is a player who hit a lot of HR when he first came up in 1990 and another who did the same in 1998 that are getting stuck in the filter.

  274. rconn23 December 31st, 2009 at 12:52 pm

    “I’m sure Cashman saw the lack of playoff consistency, and decided to move in another direction”

    No general manager, especially not one as good as Brian Cashman, uses the postseason – which is nothing more than a small sample size of games – to judge a player’s overall worth.

  275. stuckey December 31st, 2009 at 12:52 pm

    So Bret, question – if you’re convinced Gardner will be a bench player and not in the starting line-up, what’s exacting are you f-ing complaining about exactly???

  276. Rich in NJ December 31st, 2009 at 12:53 pm

    Anyway, those two players stand for the proposition that small sample sizes can be misleading.

  277. saucY December 31st, 2009 at 12:53 pm

    :arrow:

  278. Yankee Trader December 31st, 2009 at 12:53 pm

    Marlon Byrd:

    Read this article from River Avenue Blues. Byrd is not the answer for us, especially now that he’s getting a multi-year contract.

    http://riveraveblues.com/2009/.....yrd-21838/

    Braves want to give Jason Heyward a chance to win a corner outfield spot.

    Options for Damon are dwindling.

  279. austinmac December 31st, 2009 at 12:54 pm

    I have been a Yankee fan longer than most of you have been alive. That does not require blind faith. I have seen enough of Gardner to make me convinced he does not have the capacity to hit much differently or better. As I recall the Yankees “fixed his swing” in early 2009. It still looked the same to me at the end of the year.

    Left field is an offensive position. It seems foolish to me to give up the offensive advantage of the Yankee infield by giving it back in the outfield.

  280. CB December 31st, 2009 at 12:54 pm

    “You do realize that Gardner’s 375 career AB is too small a sample size to reach a definitive conclusion about his true talent, right?”

    This is exactly on the mark.

    Which is why the evaluation of Gardner at this point in time should largely be driven by qualitative data augmented by the small major league data that are available and the secondarily Gardner’s minor league data.

    And that qualitative data is what scouting is and what evaluation of tools does.

  281. hardwired December 31st, 2009 at 12:56 pm

    Melky was often frustrating to watch. However, one thing that is NEVER frustrating to watch is the once-in-a-lifetime catch he made against Manny:

    http://mlb.mlb.com/media/playe.....1&v=2

  282. Chad Jennings December 31st, 2009 at 12:56 pm

    Just added a new post.

  283. Frank December 31st, 2009 at 12:57 pm

    “There is a player who hit a lot of HR when he first came up in 1990 and another who did the same in 1998 that are getting stuck in the filter.”

    Rich:

    KM may still be a no-no on this site due some static between a site named after him and this blog’s former fearless leader.

  284. Rich in NJ December 31st, 2009 at 12:59 pm

    Frank

    Thanks for refreshing my memory.

    Chad and Sam,

    Is it time to reconfigure the filter on that word?

  285. Ed H. December 31st, 2009 at 1:04 pm

    I’m really tired of all the Gardner bashing.

    Jury’s out … and will be for some months now.

  286. Anthony December 31st, 2009 at 1:05 pm

    “This was the turning point of the World Series. Pedro Martinez pitched very well that day, and a loss would have meant going into Philadelphia, down two games to none, forced to sweep in Citizens Bank Park.”

    Jeez, man. You do know you cover the Yankees, right? It takes four wins to win the world series in the major leagues, not three. This is just embarrassing.

  287. stuckey December 31st, 2009 at 1:07 pm

    “Left field is an offensive position. It seems foolish to me to give up the offensive advantage of the Yankee infield by giving it back in the outfield.”

    Yes, it would be foolish to give back THE advantage.

    But what we’re really talking about is giving back SOME of the advantage. SOME of the considerable advantage.

    You talk as if Gardner in LF alone negates their huge advantage. It does not.

    It’s a relative argument, and when you factor in the cost of what it would take to regain SOME of that advantage, and the likey affect on the Yankees overall chances, that’s when the decision begins to look less “foolish”.

  288. stuckey December 31st, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    Here’s a genuine question – how does Gardner’s ability to make swinging contact compare to your average player? Anyone have the data available?

    I have a foot in both camps. I can acknowledge with my eyes that Gardner has serious issues with his swing, but I also don’t consider this a death sentence for his chances of succeeding.

    Given his tools, I’d rate his chances of improving his offense to a serviceable level if he already makes contact (swinging contact I mean) at a decent rate.

  289. NJ Steve December 31st, 2009 at 3:33 pm

    Granderson really only has to be passable v. LHP, especially if he is a > .900 OPS guy against RHP and plays above average defense. A .750 OPS would be acceptable.

    The real issue is (assuming his 2009 splits don’t continue) what do you do with him in close and late situations v. tough LHP.
    __________________________________________
    Rich, the latter question is really all about the situation. This was an issue for Detroit and it is why we need an OPS machine against lefties on the bench. If the Yankees are leading you let him play, but if you need the hit you pinch hit.

    As for what is passable, it is all relative. a .750 OPS is not horrible, but it depends what your options are. It is also unreasonable to hope for a .750 OPS against lefties when his career is a horrific .614 (.214 .270 .344)

  290. NJ Steve December 31st, 2009 at 3:54 pm

    This Melky Gardner debate is absurd. They both still have some upside, but Melky is not even close the defender Gardner is. if any fielding statistic says otherwise it only shows why the Fielding statistics are absurd. Gardner covers FAR more ground than melky who actually is too slow for CF. Gardner caught balls that Melky would have been playing off the wall. Melky is too slow for a CF’r and doesn’t hit enough for a corner OF’r in my opinion.

    Gardner is a great defensive CF’r as he can cover wall to wall and save hits a week with his speed.

    Melky has a better arm, but anyone who understands the game can see that melky takes FAR too long getting rid of the ball and that is why he doesn’t throw out many guys. his arm is strong but when you take 5 steps to throw (this is not an exaggeration as I showed this time and time again to people) you better throw harder and with more accuracy.

    As overall offensive players, they were very close last year with Gardner turning singles into doubles with SB’s making him slightly better.

    Girardi was playing the wrong guy in OF and if Gardner didn;t get hurt (making a catch that Melky would have played off the wall) he would have stayed our CF. But, don;t mistake Girardi playing the wrong guy with who is the better guy.

    When you take defense into account, Gardner is the better player NOW.

  291. NJ Steve December 31st, 2009 at 4:09 pm

    Left field is an offensive position. It seems foolish to me to give up the offensive advantage of the Yankee infield by giving it back in the outfield.
    __________________________________________

    Ok so put Gardner in CF and Granderson in LF

  292. GGTM December 31st, 2009 at 6:27 pm

    Chad,

    Doesn’t look like A-Rod received his due in this list … but overall a great job with the blog … thanks for writing up so many insightful and interesting postings … looking forward to a full season with you guys.


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