C-O-L-D, cold, cold, cold
Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Jan 03, 2010 
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So, it’s cold in the New York area today. Like, really cold. Like, zero degree wind-chill cold.
I went for my run this afternoon and, within five minutes, began to feel my fingers getting numb through my fleece gloves. By the time I finished, that ‘my-face-might-crack-if-I-smile’ feeling had arrived in full and I was silently giving thanks for the planners who opted to make the Giants Stadium press box glassed in. Sitting here, about 20 minutes from kickoff in the big Jets-Bengals game, I’m literally in awe of the fans who will spend the rest of the night outside.
Anyway, the big chill reminded me of a few cold-weather notes I wanted to pass along (as well a reminder that, regardless of how cold it might be today, there are only 46 days until the first workout in Tampa):
• The NHL had its New Year’s Day outdoor game at Fenway Park this year, and there had been talk that the Yankees might play host to the event in 2011. That seems a little more unlikely now, however, since it was originally announced Yankee Stadium would be hosting a college bowl game sometime between Christmas and New Year’s – thus making it impossible to give the NHL its required one-week lead time to set up the rink. It remains to be seen if the football game could be moved up to accommodate both. There’s also the possibility that the hockey game would move across town, as the Mets have apparently expressed interest.
Knowing the Yankees – and their interest in making the Stadium a year-round sports venue – I wouldn’t be surprised if they somehow find a way to do both.
• Winter ball leagues are starting to wind down and, among the young players on the rosters, is a familiar name to Yankees fans: Orlando Hernandez. I’m not quite sure if Duque is really trying to make (another) comeback or is just keeping his 75-year-old body in shape, but check out his stats page. (Old buddy Anthony McCarron had a nice retrospective on Duque the other day).
• In non senior-citizen pitching news, it seems a new player has joined the Aroldis Chapman bidding: The Blue Jays had Chapman do a private workout for them and, according to ESPN, Chapman’s agents are in Florida which could be a precursor to a deal. Last I heard, the Yankees are only mildly interested in Chapman, believing his price is too high for his immediate value.
I hope the Yanks at least make a bid for Chapman.
It’s always a bit sad when a player of signifcant age, especially one whose had a successful career, doesn’t know when to call it quits. Guy is a 4 time World Series Champion, 3 of those with the biggest sports franchise in the globe.
Hang ‘em up, El Duque. Please don’t attempt to make a comeback…
It’s windy, too, that’s not helping the problem.
Chapman is far from being ready to help a major league team. Should start at Double-A. He’s not worth the money he’s asking.
chad started a thread with this title a while ago.
who would ever had thought that we’d see the day when the yankees are pinching pennies – god even the marlins put a bid on this guy – hey Hal greed IS NOT good…
Was this thread title not already used less that 10 days ago???
Duque was a great one for us. I loved his calm demeanor and the high leg kick. If he wants to play winter ball and pass on his knowledge to the next in line that’s fine by me.
“who would ever had thought that we’d see the day when the yankees are pinching pennies – god even the marlins put a bid on this guy – hey Hal greed IS NOT good…”
you have no idea what your talking about…since when do the yankees compete with the marlins? pinching pennies? lol…200 million dollar payroll is not good enough for you? hal is a fantastic owner, he lets cashman do what he needs to do within reason…a 200 million dollar payroll is way more than enough to field a championship caliber roster..
Stay warm, Sam. Thanks for all you, Chad, and Josh do here.
Let’s go J-E-T-S!
GB7,
Link? No. Seriously. We’ve seen those numbers thrown around, but no citation.
===============================
Angel,
Thanks, again!
===============================
For those that think that we should get Chapman. How high are you willing to go?
“It’s always a bit sad when a player of signifcant age, especially one whose had a successful career, doesn’t know when to call it quits. Guy is a 4 time World Series Champion, 3 of those with the biggest sports franchise in the globe.”
Why is it sad? If a player can still contribute to a team winning games, at whatever the level, who are we to say that they shouldn’t be allowed to? I have issues with the Favre/Clemens “bigger than the team” complex, but if a guy is willing to contribute whatever he has to offer, let him.
Am I a bad Yankee fan because I don’t care whether they bid on Chapman or not?
I have to think that he’s not “all that” if they Yankees aren’t “all-in.”
m: does that mean you do not think we should get Chapman?
“For those that think that we should get Chapman. How high are you willing to go?”
1 Dollar less than the Sox.
hey the title changed!
“He’s not worth the money he’s asking.”
And you know that because?
lol, Sam. You gave in.
Seriously, though. “Baby” was creepy the first time and downright scary the second time!
Nick,
Whatever the Yankees think. Just wondering how badly people think we gotta have him. Because he won’t be cheap, and he’s still unpolished.
Good call on the title, guys. And originality is supposed to be my strong suit ….
“For those that think that we should get Chapman. How high are you willing to go?”
If he signs a mL contract, whatever it takes.
According to what was posted on this blog, Newman is very high on him.
The Yankees virtually print money.
So as long as it won’t implicate luxury takes, they need to sign him.
“hey the title changed!”
See, we the people can make a difference.
“Some fun Barbie facts for Mel and Angel. she’s 5?9 1/2?. 110 pounds and 39-21-33.”
Everyone who has a Malibu Dream House and a new convertible every year has those measurements, don’t they?
I think the Yankees are still suffering ‘buyers remorse’ from the Igawa deal, and are very wary of Chapman. Personally I don’t care one way or the other, as long as he isn’t on the 2010 team. I only want to see MLB caliber players or minor leaguers who have demonstrated the aptitude to be able to compete at that level.
As far as the pen is concerned, it should be fun watching the competitions to fill out the slots behind Rivera, one of Hughes/Joba, and Marte. Robertson should be in, but that’s about it. Everyone else is auditioning for a role, which is fine with me.
m
January 3rd, 2010 at 8:24 pm
GB7,
Link? No. Seriously. We’ve seen those numbers thrown around, but no citation.
————————————————————
Mel, I tried to link Barbie’s family tree but couldn’t link that specific one. Here’s the first page of links. Look at the bottom of the page, line 6, under “Barbie Doll History: Invention of the Barbi Doll. It includes a picture of her mom, Ruth. This one lists her heigth at 5’6″
http://www.google.com/search?s.....arbie+doll
“Some fun Barbie facts for Mel and Angel. she’s 5?9 1/2?. 110 pounds and 39-21-33.”
Everyone who has a Malibu Dream House and a new convertible every year has those measurements, don’t they?
====================================================
No, but everyone who has those measurements has a Malibu Dream House and a new convertible every year.
m
January 3rd, 2010 at 8:24 pm
For those that think that we should get Chapman. How high are you willing to go?
————————————————————
How high would I go? I’d get stoned to the be-jeebus.
“Robertson should be in, but that’s about it”
Robertson should be competing too. Nobody walking 5 guys per 9 innings deserves a bye. He’s got stuff, but he’s far from perfect. Still some work to so there.
“I think the Yankees are still suffering ‘buyers remorse’ from the Igawa deal, and are very wary of Chapman.”
Why should Igawa serve as a relevant comparable?
He had a pedestrian fastball and threw up in the zone. The signing was so stupid that it’s hard to believe that Cashman had anything to do with it.
But in any case, the facts (i.e., the talent levels of Igawa v. Chapman) are so disparate that I don’t believe that it has any bearing on this decision.
The only way what Sam’s sources told him make sense is if the Yankees don’t want to be used to set the price, but are willing to swoop in once the market has set itself.
Estimate I read for Chapman was $20-$25 million. Is $15 million from Boston still the best reported deal?
“But in any case, the facts (i.e., the talent levels of Igawa v. Chapman) are so disparate that I don’t believe that it has any bearing on this decision”
And we know this how? Potential is higher, but Chapman has dominated nowhere he’s pitched. Be it the Cuban league or the world stage (where he was last seen being outpitched by D. Matsuzaka), he’s shown potential sans results.
m, I’m glad you’re at least more open to the Chapman option than you were last year.
It would be silly for me to give a dollar amount. Like rich said, the real question is whether Chapman would sign a mL deal or not.
If so, yes, open the checkbook. Why not?
If he would like to take less to get a big-league contract or hang out with a particular Cuban buddy, best of luck to him.
Barbie? You mean the doll?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi.....Barbie.jpg
Not sure that it’s the cost as much as the reported demand that he be put on the 40 man roster as part of the agreement.
“But in any case, the facts (i.e., the talent levels of Igawa v. Chapman) are so disparate that I don’t believe that it has any bearing on this decision.”
Whoa there. Chapman’s not proven anything yet… all speculation, potential and possibility. On the other hand, Igawa’s the best pitcher in the International League!
“And we know this how? Potential is higher, but Chapman has dominated nowhere he’s pitched. Be it the Cuban league or the world stage (where he was last seen being outpitched by D. Matsuzaka), he’s shown potential sans results.”
Seriously?
Fastball velocity (up to 10 mph difference), age (3-6 years depending on reports), scouting reports, Newman’s comments on this blog, reports on Chapman’s recent workout.
I don’t think you understand how obvious it was that Igawa’s stuff wouldn’t translate.
murphydog
January 3rd, 2010 at 8:50 pm
Barbie? You mean the doll?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi…..Barbie.jpg
————————————————————
Made in Indonesia? I always knew that she was a bit of a tramp and that Ken wasn’t her first.
“Whoa there. Chapman’s not proven anything yet… all speculation, potential and possibility. On the other hand, Igawa’s the best pitcher in the International League!”
Every amateur signed requires a projection, including Straburg. Again, read Newman’s comments on this blog. Was he just pumping Chapman up to give disinformation to the opposition? I seriously doubt it.
Yup, Igawa found his niche.
David Cone done with yes.
Fastball” velocity (up to 10 mph difference), age (3-6 years depending on reports), scouting reports, Newman’s comments on this blog, reports on Chapman’s recent workout.”
So far, he’s the guy who dazzles at the NFL combine and enhances his draft position beyond what it should be. Again, in competitive baseball, he has not been a dominating factor anywhere he has pitched. Not denying the potential, but he’s proven the big goose egg. At least a guy like Strasburg dominated where he was, has polish, and even showed well in a very offense oriented AFL.
Not suggesting the Yankees should not get in on it. Merely suggesting that it’s easy to understand some level of reticence.
Chapman is far from being ready to help a major league team. Should start at Double-A. He’s not worth the money he’s asking.
——————————————————
I don’t think that we can say that he’s not worth the money he’s asking…yet. We don’t know…until he’s pitched in the minors and successfully built his innings total. The issue with Chapman is that he is high-risk/high-reward. That is, its going to cost a lot of money to sign him and then he might, or might not be a superstar.
For the Yankees the high-risk is compounded by the fact that they are already above the luxury tax threshold. If they sign Chapman and he demands (as a part of the contract) to be on the 40 man roster then the Yankees must pay 40% additional (on top of what he gets paid) to the league as luxury tax.
It might be best if someone else signs him. If he takes 2 or 3 years making it to the majors then he is well along the way to free agency…and the Yankees can sign him at that point. If he flops in the minors then he not only doesn’t cost the Yankees money to pay him, but he doesn’t cost them the 40% for the luxury tax. Right now, the Yankees have enough high-risk pitchers in the minors with Andrew Brackman and Christian Garcia. Lets steer clear of this one.
“So far, he’s the guy who dazzles at the NFL combine and enhances his draft position beyond what it should be. Again, in competitive baseball, he has not been a dominating factor anywhere he has pitched. Not denying the potential, but he’s proven the big goose egg. At least a guy like Strasburg dominated where he was, has polish, and even showed well in a very offense oriented AFL.”
Except a pitcher’s FB velocity tells you more about what he may ultimately be than a thousand 3-cone drills and 40 yard times.
Again, ignore what I say. Read what Newman said.
“Made in Indonesia? I always knew that she was a bit of a tramp and that Ken wasn’t her first.”
You can’t go by my opinion. I always preferred Betty to Veronica, although in this “cover art” Veronica bears a striking resemblance to Connie Sellecca.
http://the-adventurers-club.ty.....w_look.jpg
Idiots. The Jets. This is why Bill Belichick is the best coach (sans the Welker injury). You have the ball on the 1 inch line, you sneak it in. You do not put the ball in the backfield where it can get stopped.
GB7,
Thanks for that. Forwarded the page you pointed out. Found the 5’9″ info in the “did you know?” section. But no picture of the inventor and doll.
Having watched the world series today and now watching the final game, I have to say it is very painful to think of Sui not coming back. Maybe it’s because I know that he won’t be here in 2010 that I am so aware of his contributions during the world series. To this point he did everything but throw a shutout. This was the Hideki Matsui World Series!
Just sayin’
murphydog
January 3rd, 2010 at 9:12 pm
“Made in Indonesia? I always knew that she was a bit of a tramp and that Ken wasn’t her first.”
You can’t go by my opinion. I always preferred Betty to Veronica, although in this “cover art” Veronica bears a striking resemblance to Connie Sellecca.
http://the-adventurers-club.ty…..w_look.jpg
————————————————————
Yeah “Ronnie” was a dead ringer for Sellecca. The real tv hottie was Betty Rubble, though. What a little minx. And how about those legs on Blondie Bumstead?
“David Cone done with yes.”
Seems Klapisch of Bergen Record is being touted as the source.
Shame about that as I had really begun to appreciate Coney as color guy. Isn’t Leiter also gone, crossing over to MLB Network?
Well you know what that means… it’s time for Kim Jones to start working the mic next to Mike. Sterling has his Waldman, Kay should have his Jones, um, in a matter of speaking.
Here you go, Mel. This is just the first and last blocks of history.
“AT A GLANCE:
Since its debut in 1959, an anatomically improbable molded plastic statuette named Barbie has become an icon. Ruth Handler undeniably invented an American icon that functions as both a steady outlet for girls’ dreams and an ever changing reflection of American society. This can be seen in the history of Barbie’s clothes, and even her various “face lifts” to suit the times; in her professional, political and charitable endeavors; and more recently in the multi-culturalizing of her product line. THE STORY
RELATED INFO
BOOKS
VIDEOS
WEB SITES
QUOTATIONS
DID YOU KNOW?
Invention: Barbie® doll in 1959
Function: noun / Trademark (Reg, U,S.)
Definition: A small-scale anatomically improbable molded plastic figure of a human being used especially as a child’s plaything. Collectable doll.
Trademark: Reg. No. 0689055 issued December 1, 1959
Inventor: Ruth Handler
Criteria: First to invent. First to patent. Entrepreneur.
Birth: November. 4, 1916 in Denver, Colorado, Ruth Mosko
Death: April 27, 2002 in Los Angeles, California
Nationality: American, of Polish immigrant parents..
Milestones:
1938 Ruth married Elliot Handler
1945 Mattel founded by Harold Matson, Elliot Handler and Ruth Handler to make picture frames
1946 Matson sells his interest to the Handlers. Mattel makes and sells doll house furniture
1959 Ruth invents a three dimension doll named Barbie
1960 The success of the Barbie doll led Mattel to become a publicly-owned company
1967 Ruth Handler becomes President of Mattel, Inc.
1974 the Handlers leave the Mattel company
CAPs: Barbie, Barbie Doll, Ruth Handler, Elliot Handler, Harold Matson, Mattel,
SIPs: barbie inventor, biography, profile, history, inventor of, history of, who invented, invention of, fascinating facts.”
” DID YOU KNOW?:
One of the most successful dolls in history, with sales of more than US$1.7 billion in 1998.
The average American girl between the ages of 3 and 11 owns ten Barbie dolls.
Barbie doll is currently sold in more than 150 countries around the world.
More than one billion Barbie dolls (and family members) have been sold since 1959, and placed head-to-toe, the dolls would circle the earth more than seven times.
The best-selling Barbie doll ever created was Totally Hair Barbie, introduced in 1992. With hair from the top of her head to her toes, Totally Hair™ Barbie sold more than 10 million units, generating worldwide sales of US $100 million.
By the way, the Handlers had a son. His name was Ken. Other dolls were named for Handler’s grandchildren, including Stacie, Todd and Cheryl.
Barbie dolls sell at the rate of two dolls every second.
Ruth Handler invented something in 1959 which became so quintessentially American as to be included in the official “America’s Time Capsule” buried at the celebration of the Bicentennial in 1976: the Barbie doll.
If Barbie was 5 foot 6 instead of 11 1/2 inches tall, her measurements, would be 39-21-33. An academic expert once calculated that a woman’s likelihood of being shaped like Barbie was less than 1 in 100,000. (Ken was shaped somewhat more realistically: The chances of a boy developing his measurements were said to be 1 in 50.)”
I’m sorry if my comment that the Igawa deal may have given the Yankee brass ‘buyers remore’ has ticked off some people. I don’t know, I think it was the same Yankee hierarchy that is making the decisions. And I think they trusted their staff to check Igawa out versus his competition. And you know what, he was generally better than his competition. No Dice-K, mind you but better nonetheless.
So if it’s not reasonable to extrapolate that Igawa was viewed and judged as worthy, irrespective of the fact that he’s since failed to be able to compete, then EXCUSE ME.
Chapman has talent, and is left handed. He throws hard and is young. If you (whomever you is), knows for sure that he’ll be a sure fire winner in MLB, then call me, cause I want to know this week’s winning lottery ticket numbers also.
Yeah “Ronnie” was a dead ringer for Sellecca. The real tv hottie was Betty Rubble, though. What a little minx. And how about those legs on Blondie Bumstead?
——————————————————–
Yes, Betty Rubble was attractive, but the real beauty of the Flintstones was the teenaged Pebbles Flinstone. What a knockout!!!
http://www.fannation.com/truth.....itter_feed
Duh, m.
You said picture of doll and inventor? I’m thinking the same picture. Yes, I found the page. Forwarded it to the girl.
Thanks
Otherwise, MY opinion, that he shouldn’t be near MLB in 2010 stands, until he’s proven – in the minor league system, that he can compete at least at that level, before he’s worthy of donning Yankee pinstripes anyway.
Otherwise, if you’re Omar M, you can put him in your rotation or bullpen now and take your chances.
Murph, maybe it opens up more games for O’Neill. Leiter will still be there. He was doing both this year. I don’t think that I could deal with listening to Jones. She does absolutely nothing for my ears or eyes.
Stone Age jailbait???
” I think it was the same Yankee hierarchy that is making the decisions.”
The Igawa signing coming in the wake of the Matsuzala miss had George’s m.o. all over it. He has receded into the background.
” If you (whomever you is), knows for sure that he’ll be a sure fire winner in MLB, then call me, ”
A sure thing is the test, huh?
m
January 3rd, 2010 at 9:25 pm
Duh, m.
You said picture of doll and inventor? I’m thinking the same picture. Yes, I found the page. Forwarded it to the girl.
Thanks
————————————————————
yeah, picture of Mama Ruth at the top of the column.
Entire Article
http://www.chicagotribune.com/.....746.column
Cone is gone yet Flaherty remains? Jeez.
I’d go 6 years ~20M for Chapman. The stuff is good enough to take a risk on, but you can’t pay him over 4M to be pitching in the minors for a year or so while he works on his command and secondary pitches. As a starter he is no less than a full year away. as a reliever he could come up sooner, but would still need to work on things at the ML level.
I’d offer him a long term deal though and hope he can reach his potential or at least help out of the bullpen in the next couple years.
Is it definite that Cone’s gone?
That would be too bad. Wonder what happened. Not enough money? Not enough time off? Not deferential enough?
Rich, I always value your input and comments, but have to disagree here. I don’t think George S had any more idea who Kei Igawa was any more than he knew who the Prime Minister of Japan was at the time. If he did, he was informed by staff. And staff must have given someone some glowing reports to make it happen. My recollection of the situation was that it was Jean Afferman, but I could be mistaken.
Regardless, all I’m saying is I couldn’t give a hoot how much they decide to pay him, but I don’t think they’ll ever sign anyone again ‘sight unseen’ and try to put them in the ML rotation or bullpen, until he’s proven and vetted in the minor league system. I’m not saying don’t sign him – I would love to see a young, left-handed, power-pitching starter/reliever in our system – just not until he’s got some time under watchful eyes and proper guidance in our system.
“Not enough time off?”
I think it would be more about time on than time off. He’s hardly ever on.
The article says that the odds of finding a girl with those measurements are 1:100,000, so, that means I should be able to find one of the 1600 girls that look like that pretty easily.
Doreen
January 3rd, 2010 at 9:33 pm
Is it definite that Cone’s gone?
That would be too bad. Wonder what happened. Not enough money? Not enough time off? Not deferential enough?
————————————————————
Too friendly with david Wells and not friendly enough with Michael Kay? Jealousy rears it’s ugly head.
Rich in NJ
Or that.
GB7 -
Hmmm.
GB7:
Seems once a year the annual Kim Jones debate comes up. I’m partial to Kim, but this discussion leads the way to dusty death so I’m getting out now while I can …
But before I go, let me add cartoon ladies Pocahontas (voiced by Irene Bedard) and Mulan (voiced by Ming Na Wen) to Betty and Veronica.
http://images.fanpop.com/image.....99_888.jpg
” I don’t think George S had any more idea who Kei Igawa was any more than he knew who the Prime Minister of Japan was at the time.”
If your point is that George had an advanced dementia, I don’t think the facts totally support that.
The signing was three years ago. That was right after he told Madden that Torre would be fired because he lost to Detroit in the ALCS (unfortunately, he was talked out of it).
George didn’t have to know exactly who Igawa was. But he probably knew that they were bidding for Matsuzaka, and after the RS blew everyone away, it’s certainly conceivable that he may have asked if there was another Japanese pitcher to bid on, and if so, ordered that he be signed.
That makes more sense than Cashman approving the signing of a pitcher whose FB tops out at 90 and throws up in the zone. How could there be a “glowing report” about that?
“I don’t think they’ll ever sign anyone again ’sight unseen’ and try to put them in the ML rotation or bullpen”
They have seen him, and they will put in the mLs first.
As cold as it is out side,there’re players in the CIN-NYJ game with no sleeves on, crazy. Jets got it going on!
The Cone info was posted this morning. Unless something has changed since then, here’s the story.
“It appears Cone’s short but brilliant run in the YES broadcast booth may be over. Sources say Cone is out after a heated disagreement with network executives.
A spokesman confirmed via e-mail: “David’s contract is up. We’d love to have him back, but he’s in the process of evaluating his various options. … He may not be back based on what he decides.”
How clueless is Peter Gammons on the inner working of the Yankees and Boston? This is what he said about Igawa.
“On the June 8, 2008, on the Mike Felger Show on 890 ESPN, sportswriter Peter Gammons attributed Igawa’s struggles in the Major Leagues to former Yankees pitching coach Ron Guidry. “Ron Guidry was the Yankees pitching coach and he took Kei Igawa and changed his delivery and he’s never been the same. The interesting thing was that if the Yankees put Igawa on waivers the [Red] Sox, from my understanding, were going to put a claim in on him.”
On July 26, 2008, however, Igawa cleared waivers and was removed from the 40-man roster.”
I would strongly warn against misidentifying the Prime Minister of Japan here unless you’re ready for a rain of hellfire in the form of ‘ugh’s.
DaSaint, I don’t think anyone here is suggesting that Chapman be signed and given a rotation spot. Obviously he would be put into our minor league system if signed.
But he cannot be put into our minor league system BEFORE being signed.
Edit: ALDS
Murph, wasn’t trying to drag up dead bodies, but, I just never saw much in her reporting skills. she just seemed to want to be “The One” that dug up non-existant stories and stir controversies with her high schoolish questions.
I wonder who will host “Yankees on Deck” now.
Sorry to see Coney go though. He was one of my more favorite announcers on YES
GB
She fills in on WFAN sometimes and if you heard her you’d be amazed how much better she is when she’s just talking sports instead of asking questions.
Kim Jones? She does a good job, unlike Waldman…and Flaherty…and Kay…and Lorenz…and Sterling…
pat
January 3rd, 2010 at 9:57 pm
GB
She fills in on WFAN sometimes and if you heard her you’d be amazed how much better she is when she’s just talking sports instead of asking questions.
————————————————————
I can’t get WFAN down here unless I get the computer feeds, and, I’m not crazy about their programming. I have a total dislike for the loudmouth style of programming. Too “Billy Maysish” for me.
Doreen – Ain’t it Just “Grand”?
January 3rd, 2010 at 8:29 pm
Am I a bad Yankee fan because I don’t care whether they bid on Chapman or not?
**********************************
I’m sitting on the Chapman Care Factor = Zero bench with Doreen.
Rich in NJ
January 3rd, 2010 at 10:02 pm
Kim Jones? She does a good job, unlike Waldman…and Flaherty…and Kay…and Lorenz…and Sterling…
————————————————————
It’s a matter of opinion. I don’t need a reporter that wants to be the story instead of reporting it. She’s a female version of Howard Cosell.
“If your point is that George had an advanced dementia, I don’t think the facts totally support that.”
Rich, lord no, that’s not my point at all. In fact, never crossed my mind. But I think if you look at Igawa’s numbers and awards from Japan on paper, he seemed like a viable pitcher.
Nick, agreed. My original post said that I could care less how much they signed him for, if they chose to do that. But I felt that he needed time in the minors. That’s why I’m saying that he sees no part of the 2010 25-man roster, until he’s had a year of serious US minor-league experience.
“Rich, lord no, that’s not my point at all. In fact, never crossed my mind. But I think if you look at Igawa’s numbers and awards from Japan on paper, he seemed like a viable pitcher.”
Why does that matter? You can’t be successful in MLB by throwing up in the zone when you don’t throw in the upper 90s.
NFL update: three of next week’s games look to be rematches from today and the Patriots are petitioning to league to play any potential rad games in London.
By the way, the Handlers had a son. His name was Ken. Other dolls were named for Handler’s grandchildren, including Stacie, Todd and Cheryl.
***********************************************
So where the heck did the junior barbie doll named Skipper come from? lol
GreenBeret7
“It’s a matter of opinion. I don’t need a reporter that wants to be the story instead of reporting it. She’s a female version of Howard Cosell.”
It is a matter of opinion.
I don’t see her ego (or id) being like Cosell’s though.
And Nick in SF, Shinz? Abe was the Prime Minister of Japan when Igawa signed his contract.
Make that potential ROAD games. An early exit would make for a potential rad game.
Patriots could play SD anywhere on Earth and they ain’t winning. After the Colts and Chargers, it’s a long way down in the AFC.
RalphieD (OPPC)
January 3rd, 2010 at 8:22 pm
“who would ever had thought that we’d see the day when the yankees are pinching pennies – god even the marlins put a bid on this guy – hey Hal greed IS NOT good…”
you have no idea what your talking about…since when do the yankees compete with the marlins? pinching pennies? lol…200 million dollar payroll is not good enough for you? hal is a fantastic owner, he lets cashman do what he needs to do within reason…a 200 million dollar payroll is way more than enough to field a championship caliber roster..
———————————————————–
Hey ralph one of my new years resolutions was to not call people names – regardless of whether they deserve them or not – i came close to breaking it with your post/reply..
i’m not sure what you meant with your question “since when do the yankees compete with the marlins?” – the point i was trying to make is even the cheapest team in MLB (marlins)whom by the way know talent when they see it – put a bid in with this guy – granted it was a lowball bid but maybe they are banking on chapman wanting to play in a mostly cuban city (easier to get around since they all speak his language and come from the same tight knit country etc)and maybe he gets a chance to pitch in the majors more quickly with the marlins…
and yes the yankees are pinching pennies – a budget?!? give me a bleeping break…all of a sudden after spending billions on crap like irabu, giambi, farnsworth, whitson, randy johnson, igawa, wright, pavano (should i continue?)they are being “cautious” with probably the player with the best potential than all of those guys put together? and please don’t tell me their scouts see something in chapman they don’t like – oh because any of the pitchers they’ve drafted are any good? yankee fans are still making excuses for hughes and joba 3 years after they got their start – i don’t expect them to be like lincecum but hey show some fricken progress…
so yes they are pinching pennies – when it comes to making dumb decisions like this one (and choosing DL Nick Johnson over damon or matsui over a mere 2 or 3 million dollars). do you know what you are talking about? hal isn’t worth 10% of what his father was…
Kei Igawa’s value to the Yankees.
http://cgi.ebay.com/KEI-IGAWA-.....dZViewItem
GB, they accepted my bid for $1.99. LOL!
Kei Igawa’s value to the Yankees.
http://cgi.ebay.com/KEI-IGAWA-…..dZViewItem
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the bobble head is worth more than Igawa.
lol. If Joba & Hughes played in a developmental league aka the NL West, they’d show the progress you want.
Did anyone hear about Chip Caray’s firing from TBS!
Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy, who happens not to be a Red Sox honk.
Reports said it was due in part to poor reviews of his postseason performance by critics and viewers.
The question is, how does Jim Nantz or Jon Miller still have a job?
“and yes the yankees are pinching pennies – a budget?!? give me a bleeping break…all of a sudden after spending billions on crap like irabu, giambi, farnsworth, whitson, randy johnson, igawa, wright, pavano (should i continue?)”
You should continue. You might mention the half billion or so invested in Teixeira, Sabathia and Burnett, three primary reasons they have a 27th title. You might also recall the new Stadium they built. They always spend considerably more than everyone else, as they should, and most recently, they’ve been spending it pretty wisely.
It’s as if some people slept through June and July of 2008 when Joba was a top tier starter until he got hurt and didn’t watch Hughes become the best setup reliever in MLB at 23.
Gotta tell you, if the Yankees pass up on Chapman for dollars then I really do believe they are intentionally “behaving” themselves so the rest of the league doesn’t put the smackdown on them in the next CBA.
It just seems to feel like that the team is trying to tread lightly after the last off season and not get the mediots and the league all riled up with how they flash their coin.
Newman sounded high on Chapman in here. The Yankees NEVER get a chance to draft that kind of arm anymore. It would make ZERO sense to pass on him because of money. None at all.
And if the Yankees really are pinching pennies and behaving themselves, I hope that translates to some of their pricing for parking, concessions, etc.
If the goal is to have a sub 200 million payroll it would seem to me that the team is turning a much bigger profit than it has in the past when the payroll was higher than that and they were still printing money.
That’s the thing the Red Sox fans were revolting about this past season.
They realized when Manny was moved and off the books this season their payroll plummeted yet Henry raised prices across the board meaning the team just made a bigger profit and didn’t exactly put it on the field.
This off season they HAD TO spend like they did or that fanbase was about to burst since they pay through the nose to support that team.
If they really didn’t sign anyone and went with that whole “bridge year” concept Theo at first was selling, the Boston fans and media were ready to go nuts.
I really hope the Yankees are being all demure all of sudden so they don’t offend their critics.
Angel – In an Empire State of Mind
January 3rd, 2010 at 10:10 pm
So where the heck did the junior barbie doll named Skipper come from? lol
————————————————————
I believe that is Mr. H’s Swedish “cousin” (wink, wink), Angel.
“The question is, how does Jim Nantz or Jon Miller still have a job?”
Never had a problem with Miller, whose only handicap over the years been Joe Morgan. The guy was terrific on the radio with the Orioles thru the 80′s and 90′s. Haven’t heard him in SF, but I can’t imagine he’s any worse. I’d take him over Sterling all day long.
Disprespecting Lincecum’s back-to-back Cy Youngs, m????
DaSaint, I don’t follow Japanese politics all that closely, to tell the truth, but what you says (spelling aside) sounds about right. I nominate Hideki Matsui as lifetime Prime Minister of the Japanese Yankiverse.
Hmmmm, I’m getting a yen for some ramen.
DaSaint007
January 3rd, 2010 at 10:19 pm
GB, they accepted my bid for $1.99. LOL!
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In true Yankee fashion, you’re bidding against yourself, Simon.
“If the goal is to have a sub 200 million payroll it would seem to me that the team is turning a much bigger profit than it has in the past”
Is it true they are turning a much bigger profit? I don’t doubt they’re generating more revenue, but I also don’t doubt they now have considerably more debt.
lol, Nick.
Just pointing out the fact that the Yankees aren’t into developing starters at the major league level. As we’ve all seen.
How long since the Giants went to the playoffs? Think our fans would be satisfied watching Bonds and Lincecum? Or do they want the Yankees to win?
Things are looking very nicely for the J-E-T-S right now.
I wonder where Pete Abe is with his usual derogatory comments about Rex Ryan?
One would think Pete might find that he has something in common with Rex (being overweight) and lay off him.
Then again, Rex actually makes an attempt to shed pounds and get healthy and set an example to those who view him as a role model, while Pete is busy stuffing down hamburgers.
I think it would HELP the Yankees win if they could get Bonds and Lincecum!
“Is it true they are turning a much bigger profit? I don’t doubt they’re generating more revenue, but I also don’t doubt they now have considerably more debt.”
Forbes.com (April 2009):
No one is getting richer faster than the No. 1-ranked New York Yankees, whose value shot up 15% this year to $1.5 billion. The Bronx Bombers pulled in $80 million–by far the most in baseball–from their rights fee with the YES Network in 2008 and moved into the most lucrative stadium in baseball this season. (Full disclosure: Forbes has a show on the YES Network.) The new stadium also means the Yankees will have to hand over a lower percentage of their revenue to rivals.
“Rex actually makes an attempt to shed pounds and get healthy”
That’s right. No more bacon on the cheeseburgers for my Rexy?
Rich:
That lucrative new stadium comes with significant debt, which is the reason they are handing over a lower percentage of revenue to other teams.
Frank,
From all accounts, the Yankees make so much money off of the YES network and the licensing fees and advertising on it their payroll is a drop in the bucket.
Add in the revenue from tickets, concessions, from the league TV rights etc., they make a hefty profit every year otherwise they would never have been operating like they were all these years.
If George was losing money, we would have heard about it and it would have affected payroll and signings.
That said, they have a right to spend what they want and if they want to decrease the luxury tax bite I totally understand.
But as a fan who supports the team through season tix, parking fees, concessions, YES fees, etc., I’d like to think that if they are going to scale things back payroll wise the savings will translate to us in some way. The ticket price adjustment last season really only helped their top spending ticket buyers.
If the Yankees want to have a 180 million dollar payroll going forward and are going to show restraint with spending then knock some dollars off of parking and food and drinks.
Why do you think it’s ok to make jokes about somebody with a weight problem? I dont get it. It’s not funny.
And for the record, I have had my issues with PA.
We all know the Yankees made oodles of money in their first year.
But Cashman’s been given carte blanche to make the moves he thinks are right, not a blank check to spend just because.
Even watching the pennies, and letting popular players go, we’re still bumping up to the magical $200m threshold.
11 players making $160m just amongst themselves. Jeter & Rivera due for extensions.
Just because we’re not spending it doesn’t mean they’re not trying to field a good team. I think they’re using the budget as an excuse to pass on certain players. It’s a luxury that we can afford because we just won a WS, and if the season started today, we’d still have one of the best teams on paper.
FYI, for all you NFL fans: Just announced that the Jets will be the 4:30 p.m. game on Saturday next week.
“If George was losing money, we would have heard about it and it would have affected payroll and signings”
I don’t mean to suggest they are losing money. Merely suggesting that the debt resulting from the new stadium may well be commensurate with the increase in revenue it brings.
I do not think it’s funny. I use Rex as an example, as he is a good role model for those that suffer from illnesses that cause their high weight, and those that struggle daily to keep their weight down, and even those with body image issues.
I insult Pete Abe because he is a vulture. He picked the bones clean off of any negative news story involving the Yankees, mainly Alex and Joe G, just like he picks the bones clean off of every KFC chicken wing he eats.
Thank you, Sam. That gives you six days to come up with an original thread title — provided it’s cold in Cincy.
This was on the SI rumors section..
“The Yankees are keeping the DH spot clear, for the time being, as a potential way to accommodate Albert Pujols, Prince Fielder or even Adrian Gonzalez playing alongside Mark Teixeira. They have advanced catching prospects ( Jesus Montero and Austin Romine) to offer if the Twins reach a choking point with Joe Mauer, which Mauer will dictate more than the club.”
Chicago Tribune
Nick: Zing!!!
Ryan like Parcells before him gains weight in season. I think it’s a workaholic thing.
The game that Aroldis seen, was Andy pitching? There reason I ask is because he switched to Andy’s agent shortly there after.
Pete’s twitters are live and can be read at,
http://www.mlb.com/hotstove He’s quite active tonight.
m,
Not suggesting that the Yankees aren’t trying to win by spending less. They are still a great team and will remain one.
I just think that if they are intentionally trying to not tick people off in the league by self capping their spending below levels they were previously comfortable at, it signals to me that it’s not business as usual here.
That said, if Chapman is signed here for top dollar you can throw it all out the window.
I’m just sitting back as a fan and watching them “play sensible” all of sudden and I’m looking for the deeper reasons behind it.
I also think if they are committed to lowering payroll significantly below previous levels, some of that should eventually translate to the fans. Those $10 beers are patently ridiculous.
I still don’t get why the Yankees didn’t get the private workout for Chapman that they were looking to get……..
According to Mark Newman (who s/w Chad recently), it sounded like the Yankees were very interested. I don’t get this whole thing.
I do like this unbiased sarcastic line from Pete Abe.
“Jed Hoyer apparently did not get the memo that his duty as the new general manager of the San Diego Padres is to trade Adrian Gonzalez to the Red Sox for Clay Buchholz and assorted prospects.”
Betsy,
Hold on. I found something for you while cleaning out the mailbox.
CR9,
Pete did a chat and he answered a question saying it would ruin Hoyer’s credibility if he promptly gifted (my word) A-Gonz to the Red Sox. Of course, PA will be doing back flips when it happens. Ouch.
Of course I only zing with affection.
For Betsy. I know you saw it before, but it’s nice to see it again.:
http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.....id=4731077
“According to Mark Newman (who s/w Chad recently), it sounded like the Yankees were very interested.”
At the right price, they’re very interested.
At too high a price, they’re not that interested.
If Cinny covered my dad would have won first place in the season for football. I think he tied now…..
Disclaimer-
I return to work tomorrow
. As per my dedication to my employer, posting during working hours will return to being very limited.
Accept no other Ericas!!!!
“At too high a price, they’re not that interested.”
They have so much more money than any other franchise that it’s hard to believe that too high for them is not too high for another team.
GLove, I didn’t get that impression from Cashman when he said after the WS that people could call the Yanks whatever they wanted, as long as they called them champs (or something like that).
I don’t think Sam is right……and the language he used comes directly from ESPN (about a precursor to a deal). MLBtraderumors mentioned a couple of weeks ago that the buzz on Yanks and Chapman was nil, but in the story about the Jays, they mentioned the Yanks as having interest. Mark Newman sounded like he loved Chapman’s potential……
Newman talked about Chapman, but it was not exactly a ringing endorsement. He’s never going to show his hand, nor should he, but at the same time, he doesn’t leave you with the impression the world ends if they don’t get him.
“Who knows what the price tag is going to be on this deal,” Newman said. “He’s not where (Stephen) Strasburg was.” When Chapman threw a bullpen for scouts earlier this month, Newman said the reports were exactly what he expected: Huge fastball. Spotty command. Inconsistent secondary pitches. “But if you don’t like that, you need to be in another business,” Newman said.
”(He would start in) A or Double-A,” Newman said. “Wherever it is he pitches, he needs to be comfortable and he needs to work on the command and secondary pitches. And when he gets that, he’s going to take off.”
M, I remember watching that clip. I’d missed the game because I was visiting my sister, and when I heard (in the car) that Phil had nearly pitched a complete game, I nearly jumped for joy, lol. I really, really, really miss him as a starter, even with his ups and downs. If he’s in the pen this year…….and as a short man….well, I don’t want to know about it, lol
I would accept a $25 payoff from any Erica, but it wouldn’t be as sweet as those to come from the REAL Erica.
“Yankees aren’t interested in developing starters at the major league level,” what are Joba and Phil, catchers?
“Newman talked about Chapman, but it was not exactly a ringing endorsement.”
“And when he gets that, he’s going to take off.”
That’s a ringing endorsement to me.
Frank, I don’t know, but we are clearly seeing things different.
“But if you don’t like that, you need to be in another business,” Newman said.
Hmm, that sounds like a guy who is impressed to me. Chapman’s rawness is not a bad thing ……nor is starting out at A or AA
See, here’s the thing. I don’t buy all this Yankees being coy laying in the weeds on coveted players stuff.
Last off season they basically screamed “MINE!!!” the second CC hit free agency and by all reports that scared away a lot of the potential competition.
I understand not wanting to overspend, but I’d like to see them wield the hammer of George a little more than they currently are.
This whole budget is set thing makes me feel icky!
“wield the hammer of George” …I like that, sounds pretty awesome.
“Yankees aren’t interested in developing starters at the major league level,” what are Joba and Phil, catchers?”
I’m guessing the author’s point is that both guys were brought up before the Yankees would have liked to have out of necessity and it hasn’t necessarily boded well for they’re development.
Certainly it could be argued that if both guys were to have gotten full seasons as starters in the minors in ’07 and most of ’08, they’d have stood a better chance of being established, or at least more fully developed, MLB starters in ’09 than they are now heading into the 2010 season.
blake
January 3rd, 2010 at 10:55 pm
This was on the SI rumors section..
“The Yankees are keeping the DH spot clear, for the time being, as a potential way to accommodate Albert Pujols, Prince Fielder or even Adrian Gonzalez playing alongside Mark Teixeira. They have advanced catching prospects ( Jesus Montero and Austin Romine) to offer if the Twins reach a choking point with Joe Mauer, which Mauer will dictate more than the club.”
Chicago Tribune
——–
I posted this earlier
http://www.chicagotribune.com/…..746.column
Then our lineup would be:
Jeter
Granderson
Pujols
Mauer
Arod
Tex
Cano
Swisher
Gardner
Our payroll would be 250mm and we would still beg for more pitching
Sorry, didn’t know it had been posted. Igawa could pitch behind that lineup.
G Love, why should they spend one more $$ than they need to? They needed CC……..they don’t “need” any of these other players (like Holliday). If they want a guy, really want him, they will make no bones about it.
Nick in SF
January 3rd, 2010 at 11:12 pm
I would accept a $25 payoff from any Erica, but it wouldn’t be as sweet as those to come from the REAL Erica.
*************
I don’t think you will be having any such problem, whereas THIS Erica still thinks she is going to win.
And on that note, I am seriously jetlagged and unsure what time zone I am in… good night Yankee people!
G. Love
I have to believe they are doing this so they are no longer used to bid up prices, and so they can stop having to overpay players.
I have a thought on Brian Cashman. I am fine with what he has brought in this year, I have no qualms. This is just a thought.
Is it possible that Brian Cashman thought his job was in jeopardy after 2008, so he went out and splashed the cash and committed nearly a half billion to 3 players with a combined 20 years of contract?
Now that we won, he wants to do things his original way, by pinching pennies. I used to call him a penny pincher, as I was angry that he was penny pinching someone else’s money.
So this is not confused, I believe NJ and Grandy are fine acquisitions and allows us flexibility, upgrades our defense, and come at very good value.
Jeter
Granderson
Pujols
Mauer
Arod
Tex
Cano
Swisher
Gardner
__
Montero would kick either Swisher or Gardner out of a job.
Then our lineup would be:
Jeter
Granderson
Pujols
Mauer
Arod
Tex
Cano
Swisher
Gardner
Our payroll would be 250mm and we would still beg for more pitching
=======================================================
Posada would still have 1 year left on his contract, so you’d probably have Posada & Pujols spend some time in the out field, just like Yogi played many games in the of in 1961.
Rich in NJ
January 3rd, 2010 at 11:24 pm
Jeter
Granderson
Pujols
Mauer
Arod
Tex
Cano
Swisher
Gardner
__
Montero would kick either Swisher or Gardner out of a job.
——
He would have went in the trade for Mauer
“I understand not wanting to overspend, but I’d like to see them wield the hammer of George a little more than they currently are.”
I think last year’s once in a decade to two decade spending spree has left the fanbase a little spoiled. Wield the hammer? They’ve been consistently spending 30%-45% more than whatever team ranks 2nd in payroll over most of the last decade.
As for a budget, god forbid they run this like a business.
I’d be surprised if the Yanks didn’t sign Chapman.
Chapman is not better than Strasburg.
He got around 15Mill or so.
But he only had one bidder the Nats.
If he were in Chapman’s position one could only imagine the dollars he would have gotten.
With all that in mind I figure Chappy to be worth around 20-25 mill.
And I think the Yankees should get him.
They don’t normally get a chance to sign these types of talent, and IMO they should not loose the chance.
sign him to a minor league contract, and turn him over to Nardi.
We should have a beast shortly thereafter.
End of story.
And while we’re at it let’s sign Wang to a minor league deal too.
“I have to believe they are doing this so they are no longer used to bid up prices, and so they can stop having to overpay players.”
When’s the last time that’s happened? If anything, agents use other teams to get the Yankees up (like Boras used Boston to get Teixeira’s NYY salary where he wanted it). They overpaid Burnett and outdistanced everyone by a mile on Sabathia. That’s wielding the hammer that G. Love speaks of. If they aren’t interested, they don’t get in it much. If they are, they come with the full force of their financial resources.
“They have so much more money than any other franchise that it’s hard to believe that too high for them is not too high for another team.”
Michael Ynoa. Yanks got outbid by the Oakland A’s.
A lot of it is going to depend on whether they feel that Chapman is likely to be a starter rather than a reliever or whether they have enough information on that point to warrant the investment.
Well, Burnett got from us what he was offered by the Braves.
Teixeira got a little more from us (I think just 1 extra year and 1.5 mil a year more) than what he could have gotten from the Red Sox.
CC speaks for itself. He is one of a kind. He was hesitant to leave his West Coast home to begin with. We were in desperate need of him, and probably would have commanded a similar salary somewhere else if not signed by us.
“When’s the last time that’s happened?”
There was virtually a known ceiling on what CC, Teix, and AJ would get.
That’s not true with Chapman. He will make a lot less, and as a result, thee will be far more viable bidders. So an overanxious buyer can skew the market.
It’s not like the Yankees are going to blow teams away by bidding $50m.
The Yankees will let the market set itself and make a decision…which I hope will be a smart one.
Overpaid Burnett? The Braves offered just a few million less than the Yankees did. Sigh.
Can anyone guess the only team to spend, er, commit over $100 million this offseason (I think)?
Yep, you guessed it!
And guess who does not report this, or use the word spend rather than the correct term, commit?
Yep, you guessed it again!
The author is stating that the Yankees brought in CC, AJ, Andy (twice in the last 2 seasons), Javy, Gaudin, Sergio. Getting the point?
They don’t have patience. Or maybe they do because they’re taking their sweet ol’ time.
Anyway, looks like one of Hughes or Joba will continue their development as a starter in the #5 slot.
(and I think Joba’s the 3rd catcher as the roster is currently constructed. Not a starter-though.)
CR9:
Burnett was offered a million and a half less per year by the Braves. That would have been an overpayment in my mind, but I’m not a GM. My point is that the Yankees went full tilt in the bidding and scared off the Braves.
As for Teixeira, I believe there was never a single moment when he considered playing for Boston. As we learned later, the Teixeira camp and Cashman had been talking almost as soon as FA started and Cash was going to have the opportunity to top the best bid. While I believe the Nats bid to be sincere, Teixeira wasn’t going there and Cashman knew it. That left Boston, who I think Boras was using only for the purpose of getting the Yankees to come up to a certain number. Further, I’m equally convinced that whatever Boston offered, even if it were above what he and the Yankees ultimately settled on, the Yankees would have topped it. They both wanted each other.
“As we learned later, the Teixeira camp and Cashman had been talking almost as soon as FA started and Cash was going to have the opportunity to top the best bid.”
And Cash has said he didn’t know whether or not Hal would agree to the expenditure.
So Teix may not have had the Yankees as a choice.
Frank
The Braves offered him 5 years AAV of $16 million.
We offered him 5 years AAV of 16.5 million.
Either way, be it $1.5 million or .5 million, that is not overpaying, in baseball terms.
“They both wanted each other.”
IMO Cash had his eyes set on Tex for a couple of years. Just patiently waiting, then POUNCE.
“The author is stating that the Yankees brought in CC, AJ, Andy (twice in the last 2 seasons), Javy, Gaudin, Sergio. Getting the point?”
Part of the same point. Because Joba and Hughes were needed by the big club, and in various roles, thus hindering their development as future MLB starters, they had to bring in some of the guys you’re talking about by way of compensation.
CR9:
I thought the Braves were at 5 and $75M. I’m not saying the Yankees overpaid because they outbid the Braves. That’ts the bidding process. I have no problem with that. I just never felt he was a $15M,$16M, or $16.5M pitcher based on what he’d done over his career. Still don’t.
The issue with AJ wasn’t AAV, it was the number of years given his history.
“IMO Cash had his eyes set on Tex for a couple of years. Just patiently waiting, then POUNCE”
Agreed. A year and half anyway. Once he passed on Texas’ long term offer and was summarily traded to the Braves, I think Cashman was keeping at least one watchful eye on the Teixeira situation.
Frank,
But the correct thing to do was to leave them where they could develop as starters.
Bringing up Joba way early got us zilch in 2007 & 2008. And cost him 2 years of development as a starter.
Hughes is a different case. Had he stayed healthy in 2007 and had he not bust a rib early in 2008, he probably would’ve been able to build up innings more steadily, maybe in the bigs even. And putting him in the bullpen (and Joba in the rotation) in 2009 did earn us something. A nice shiny trophy! (but still, retarding Hughes’ development as a starter).
Until Chapman is signed, it’s all conjecture.
I’m just trying to read the tea leaves we’ve been handed this off season and the word “budget” keeps popping up.
To me, it’s a ruse if we end up signing someone for big money, but it does feel like Cashman is on a mission (again) to prove he’s smart enough to do it cheaper and that’s when things get dangerous around here.
CR9 made a great point about how Cashman was working as a GM prior to last off season once he was given full control.
There was a ton of payroll talk and doing things cheaper, etc. and that 2008 team fell short.
Now, we believe now that it was all a master plan for the 2009 team, but if Cashman has that old chip on his shoulder that the media and fellow GM’s don’t respect the way he does business and don’t give credit where credit is due things can get strange around here.
Chapman, to me, is a no brainer. We should never be in position to draft this kind of player ever. The last high end amateur arm we got because of signability issues didn’t sign with us (Gerit Cole).
We’re talking about a left handed pitcher who throws smoke, is young and all he costs is money.
If the Yankees put a price tag on him and fall short, it could be a sign that Cashman is doing his “the buck stops here” routine again.
I’m sure the Yankees have a price in their heads for Chapman, but this is one of those prizes you have to bring home.
If Newman thinks the kid could open in AA, that means he’s very close to being major league ready with his stuff.
I wonder if they are going to try to sell him on Trenton (or Staten Island in a worst case scenario) and tell him he’ll be as close to NYC and the big club as possible.
Frank
I agree with you that AJ is not a player worthy of his contract.
But when you look at it, the Yankees decided to go with pitchers who can miss bats and lower the number of balls in play.
AJ does that well, and he also pitched pretty well at home last season.
“I wonder if they are going to try to sell him on Trenton (or Staten Island in a worst case scenario) and tell him he’ll be as close to NYC and the big club as possible.”
As long as the money is comparable, the Yankees are the team that most international players have dreamed about playing for since they were kids.
The one caveat is that he supposedly idolizes Contreras. If he has negative things to say about his treatment here, it could affect this thought process.
“Bringing up Joba way early got us zilch in 2007 & 2008. And cost him 2 years of development as a starter. Hughes is a different case. Had he stayed healthy…”
Joba didn’t help the team make the playoffs in 2007? And what 2 years?
One could make a good case that his development hasn’t been ideal, but that doesn’t mean he hasn’t been developing.
Maybe facing big league hitters the past two seasons has been better for Joba than logging innings in Scranton. Or maybe not. Does anyone really know either way?
I agree that Hughes is a different case — you like HIM.
GB, BTW, don’t think that I didn’t notice your catch of my tag. Nice!
Well, I’ll grant you that. And Joba did have an injury in 2008. But he lost 2007 & 2008 developing as a starter.
Which was the original premise. Developing as a starter.
Rich in NJ
I know you are not suggesting we did, but I’ve gotta laugh at the idea that we treated Jose badly.
If anything, Jose treated us badly, with his performance.
Congrats to Rhapsody on the Cowboys winning the Division. May they rip McNabbs head off next week, figuratively speaking of course.
Did Joba not spend most of the 2007 season starting in the minors? He didn’t come up to the Bronx until mid/late August.
He was already close to his innings limit, hence the Joba rules. So how many Scranton starts did he miss?
In 2008, he also had a number of starts. Some of them could have helped him develop, no?
Nick,
As usual, you’re right!
I would prefer it if you told the truth.
J-E-T-S
JETS!
JETS!
JETS!
lol, Nick. I always speak the truth. It’s the internet.
Let’s rewind a bit. It all started with Lincecum, and how he’s a successful starter while Joba and Hughes haven’t shown much. I only intimated that had Joba and Hughes logged as many innings in the NL West as Lincecum, they may be further along in their development.
And Joba Rules were there to protect Joba from Evil Manager I.
Why was Joba not a starter in 2008? Why Hughes and Kennedy, not Joba? Shoulder? Maybe.
They could’ve stretched Hughes out after Wang went down for the final time. But they chose not to. Again, forgoing the opportunity to develop him as a starter in the majors. Yes, I know, his going to the bullpen ended up being a blessing. But again, going back to the original complaint (not by me) about Joba and Hughes.
If Wang had a good to great 2009 and Andy finished strong as he did in 2009, I believe that it would be CC/AJ/Wang/Andy/1 of the kids. I think they’d have a difficult time not bringing back Andy after the season/postseason that he had. Which brings us back to the clarification of my initial comment to the original complaint. That the Yankees would brought in/will continue to bring in established starters rather than develop Joba and Hughes in the Yankee rotation.
If you really thought I was right ‘as usual’ you would have purchased a cd by Julee Cruise by now, as per my recommendation.
Have you?
The more and more I see Miles Austin, he reminds me of Alex Rodriguez with his helmet on.
With the helmet on only, he has a striking resemblance to ARod!
The Yanks need to sign Damon already.
Ugh. Clever reply eaten by post.
It included a topic that can be debated tomorrow.
“Why did the Yankees bring in a 4th starter rather than go with Joba and Hughes?”
Will check out Julee Cruise now. Completely forgot about that one.
from mP:
“If they make no more moves, Gardner is it. LF/CF, it doesn’t matter because really, he’s not league average at either position!”
===============================
2009 AL league average CF:
.265/.329/.403/.732
Gardner’s 2009:
.270/.345/.379/.724
He’s right there.
========
This is the point that many people miss. Not only is Gardner right there offensively, when you take his SB’s into account his offensive production IS ABOVE AVERAGE for a cf’r. People keep saying he has a huge hole and this and that, but those same people simply don’t see what he actually did offensively. Sure, he is not good offensively and being league average for the Yankees isn’t really what we expect, but when you add the SB’s and you add the terrific defense, if the worst starter on the team is above average that is fine.
It is a similar discussion of why the bias people have for a particular player shines through when reality doesn’t support their incorrect assumptions. Silly comments like “that guys isn’t clutch” “he never comes through” “he is a choker”
There is a guy who writes a blog, I have to find it (it is in honor of Mariano Rivera) who was getting creamed by everyone when he was saying that ARod is not unclutch. This guy said he was clutch before he came to the Yanks and was actually very clutch against Minnesota and would have been the MVP of the series against Boston if Rivera didn’t blow the save in game 4 and then went into (I am trying to remember what he wrote) a 40 AB stretch…only 40 horrible AB’s. He kept talking about guys don’t have clucth or unclutch ability, they only have clutch or unclutch performances. Anyway, this guy was logical and smart, but he was the only one believing it and everyone told him what they thought. Obviously, he was 100% correct…just like you wouldn’t say he is clutch now, you would only say he has leveled off based on the type of player he is as his OPS is now slightly higher in the postseason than the regular season..
I will find his blog for you guys as it is the best around.
The holidays are over with. Back to work for GM’s with unfinished business to take care of.
45 days until pitchers and catchers have their 1st workout.
“DaSaint007
January 3rd, 2010 at 9:23 pm
I’m sorry if my comment that the Igawa deal may have given the Yankee brass ‘buyers remore’ has ticked off some people. I don’t know, I think it was the same Yankee hierarchy that is making the decisions. And I think they trusted their staff to check Igawa out versus his competition. And you know what, he was generally better than his competition. No Dice-K, mind you but better nonetheless.”
Personally, I thought the point was an intelligent one. I think that a non-move on Chapman would reflect their experience with the Igawa deal. It would take less money to sign Chapman since there is no posting fee, and I get the sense that if they had the Igawa money in hand they would go after Chapman, but one bust is all they want to carry at the moment!
GLove, I’m a Cashman fan, so I just don’t agree with your theory that he’s putting his ego ahead of the best in interests of the team. I do find it interesting you’re “blaming” Cash for this instead of the owner of the team.
Phil Hughes should never have been brought up on early in 2007, period. Cashman had previously said that we would not see Phil in NY until September of that year and he should have stuck to that, no matter how many injuries we had in the rotation. Phil has been a victim of injuries and circumstance. He’ll very likely be in the pen again this year, yet another year down the drain in terms of his development as a starter.
Also, maybe we should blame the players for 2008 instead of Cashman…….
“I do find it interesting you’re “blaming” Cash for this instead of the owner of the team”
I find it interesting we’re blaming anybody. The 2010 team is going to be either the 3rd or 4th highest paid in the history of baseball, trailing only the ’05, ’08 and maybe ’09 editions of the Yankees.
Frank, I’m not………
I hope Hughes gets the opportunity to start this year. While being in the pen limited his innings pitched, it was a valuable experience for him. He learned how to pitch in stressful situations and did very well. I think by the time play offs came around, he was over tired.
2008 was a year w/ a lot of injuries.
“Personally, I thought the point was an intelligent one. I think that a non-move on Chapman would reflect their experience with the Igawa deal. It would take less money to sign Chapman since there is no posting fee, and I get the sense that if they had the Igawa money in hand they would go after Chapman, but one bust is all they want to carry at the moment!”
The upshot of your point is that the ability to scout all prospects is the same, which makes no sense. The Igawa signing was sui generis with regard to how the Yankees operate.
Similarly, the Yankees didn’t forbear on signing CC or AJ merely because their judgment about Pavano was a mistake, and they didn’t let the money they spent on Pavano (which was similar to what the spent on Igawa), affect their decision to spend money on them.
Do you honestly believe the Yankees don’t understand the concept of sunk costs?
Betsy:
I know.
I don’t want to put words in people’s mouths, but some are coming close to painting the organization as penny pinching in nature, and probably doing so without knowing all the facts, which I see as pretty unfair.
Betsy
“Phil Hughes should never have been brought up on early in 2007, period. ”
Yet he almost pitched a no hitter in his second start. How does that prove that he wasn’t ready?
I don’t buy the idea that they lost with Igawa, so they’re not interested in Chapmn. In fact, the argument makes no sense given how often Cash has repeated the mantra he learned from Stick about how important it is not to let mistakes prevent you from taking chances. Igawa has as much in commong with Chapman as I have in commong with the President of the United States.
Rich, big deal – it was one start. He’d had almost no experience at AAA and had never faced a bases loaded situation in his life, but he was ready for MLB?
“Do you honestly believe the Yankees don’t understand the concept of sunk costs?”
Only if they were dead from the neck up the last half dozen years or so.
Betsy
What leads you to believe that start wouldn’t be a harbinger of things to come?
“Yet he almost pitched a no hitter in his second start. How does that prove that he wasn’t ready?”
How does it prove he was?
Rich, obviously Cashman didn’t think he was ready and didn’t want to bring him up until September…..but he got desperate. That doesn’t even matter now. The fact is, Phil has lost 3 years of development as a starter and it will probably be 4 this year. It’s a shame and a waste at the same time.
AJ helped win us a WS – he still should get more credit for WS game 2 than he has (he gets more grief about game 5, for some reason. I’m not sure why we’re fixated on his contract. The Yankees were paying for what they thought he would provide going forward, not what he did in the past. He was an important part of the team whether you like the contract or not.
dont put franchise in the bullpen just yet. i see them using him as the long man early on, then he’ll grab a rotation spot as soon as one opens, and one will open, it always does.
saying phil shouldnt have been brought up when he was in 2007 is ridiculous. they didnt intend for him to stay, but they were desperate and phil was the best available option. you can plan out a development plan all you want but in the end, the players are all there to help the major league club and thats what phil was doing at the time. and he was pretty damn good at it.
Guru man,
I don’t disagree with your post but the sample size on Gardner is to small to really draw any conclusions on him. Some players progress when given regular playing time and some have their flaws exposed and regress. I tend to lean toward the latter of those..I really have nothing to base that on its just a gut feeling. If they decide to give him the job and see what happens then I really don’t have a problem with it but I don’t feel like he is going to be a longterm starter in the Yankee outfield.
AJ winning game 2 of the WS was huge, it completely turned the series around. AJ losing game 5 was not as important, and it brought the series back to YS.
boy, if u read the complaints and flat-out insults on this board about aj, melky, cano, joba, molina, gardner and cashman, you’d think the yankees finished about 12 games out.
“The Yankees were paying for what they thought he would provide going forward, not what he did in the past.”
Problem was he provided exactly what he did in the past, ‘cept a little worse. Some believe past performance is a fairly decent harbinger of what a player may do going forward. Especially true of players who’ve been around for a decade.
“Do you honestly believe the Yankees don’t understand the concept of sunk costs?”
Maybe they do, maybe they don’t (they are not economists after all), but that’s irrelevant. This is not about sunk costs, it’s about lessons learned. I think that they learned a lesson in the various international signings (including back to Irabu and, to a lesser degree, Contreras). They learned that spending a lot of cash on high profile international players may not pay off much more than using that money to sign draft picks and lower profile international free agents.
They clearly learned from the Pavano deal (and again, not about the issue of sunk costs, but about baseball decisions) and I believe it affected their approach to free agent pitchers. Despite their bad experience with Pavano they signed CC and AJ, but I do believe that the Pavano experience taught a lesson that was important when they made those signings – like don’t sign a mediocre pitcher that cannot strike anyone out just because he is the best available in that FA class – wait and only sign true quality, and then spend what it takes.
Cashman seems much more willing now to make a splash on the really elite players and to take a pass on the mediocre ones (even if they are the best available free agents). That is a lesson he learned from his own mistakes, and those that he witnessed as a helpless bystander when the Boss made stupid financial commitments.
Blake, sure it is a small sample and I think that your point about being exposed can definitely occur. However, I will also point out that Gardner has adapted well at every stage of his playing career and if he can give us an OPS of over 700, when you add in his defense and SB’s he will be fine in CF. Will he be better suited as a defensive replacement/pinch runner? Perhaps that will be the outcome, but my belief is that either way, Gardner is a valuable part of the Yankees. The blog I referenced, the guy said something very smart (and I will get the bloggers name etc in a few days as his predictions were spot on as well…)he said that the Yankees need specialists to go along with their starters at most every position. If Gardner can’t duplicate his OPS from last year then he still is valuable as an excellent defensive replacement and excellent pinch runner.
Igawa didn’t throw 100 MPH from the left side. At chapmans aged this is a little different scenerio, you know you aren’t getting a finished product and you have time to develop him. Matsuzaka, Contreras, Irabu, Igawa were all older and really were past the point of development. Chapman is like buying the parts to build a Ferrarri with the time to assemble it. I understand their caution given the number of times they and other teams have been burned but I feel like this is a different situation due to his age.
“This is not about sunk costs, it’s about lessons learned. I think that they learned a lesson in the various international signings (including back to Irabu and, to a lesser degree, Contreras).”
You don’t have to be an economist to understand sunk costs.
Yes, they learned not to rush an IFA signing to the ML, but instead to let them spend as much time as they need in the mL, as they did with El Duque, an IFA signing you didn’t mention.
I really don’t think you sufficiently credit their ability to distinguish among amateur prospects.
You said: “like don’t sign a mediocre pitcher that cannot strike anyone out just because he is the best available in that FA class.”
That logic applies to IFA signings as well.
“Despite their bad experience with Pavano they signed CC and AJ, but I do believe that the Pavano experience taught a lesson that was important when they made those signings – like don’t sign a mediocre pitcher that cannot strike anyone out just because he is the best available in that FA class – wait and only sign true quality, and then spend what it takes.”
Agree 100%. Pavano was the tallest midget that year and the Yankees made a mistake which they learned from. This may well be the logic they are applying to this offseason’s lot of free agents.
Frank
January 4th, 2010 at 8:49 am
“The Yankees were paying for what they thought he would provide going forward, not what he did in the past.”
Problem was he provided exactly what he did in the past, ‘cept a little worse. Some believe past performance is a fairly decent harbinger of what a player may do going forward. Especially true of players who’ve been around for a decade.
————————————————————
What are you basing that on? His 2008/2009 numbers were almost the same. Just like in the post season, he’s been hammered for 2 bad games, but, nothing gets said about the Game #2 starts in the ALDS, ALCS and WS. It’s not hus fault that he didn’t get wins in the first 2. That was pretty much his season. 5 starts of allowing allowing 3 total runs in 6 or more innings and another 5 of allowing 2 runs or less and getting losses or no decisions in them. I’d say that he did a good job of keeping his team in a game. That’s 1/3rd of his starts. Would you be complaining about him if he had gotten wins in half of them? He’d be setting on an 18-9 record with a lower ERA from the previous year.
Paco, it is hard to know what they do learn or don’t learn, but one thing that I agree with is that if you are teh Yankees you sign the elite players any time you can and try to avoid those middle rung guys (get yourslef the stud 20 mil guy instead of 2 10 mil guys) and then fill in the rest of yoru lienup with young guys who you hope can be your future. You need the stars and some cheap youth to win. This is why when CC is available you jump at him. If Mauer becomes available you simply do not get out bid for him.
Guru, I totally agree that Gardner could be a very valuable player for the Yankees whether it be as a starter or off the bench. Every team needs role players, the Yankees got away from that in the mid 2000s and it led to a team that all had the same strenghts and same weaknesses. Jordan wouldn’t have won all those titles without Steve Kerr and John Paxton playing their roles..
If the Yankees were faced with the same holes in the ML rotation and paucity of FA options, they would probably sign Pavano again.
That’s why it’s so important to have mL options. Signing a high quality IFA option like Chapman obviates the need to sign the Carl Pavanos of the MLB world.
“Guru Man
January 4th, 2010 at 9:09 am
Paco, it is hard to know what they do learn or don’t learn, but one thing that I agree with is that if you are teh Yankees you sign the elite players any time you can and try to avoid those middle rung guys (get yourslef the stud 20 mil guy instead of 2 10 mil guys) and then fill in the rest of yoru lienup with young guys who you hope can be your future. You need the stars and some cheap youth to win. This is why when CC is available you jump at him. If Mauer becomes available you simply do not get out bid for him.”
I agree – and I think that this is going to be a winning strategy for this team. They have also done a good job of balancing trading young talent when needed (as in the two big trades this year) and hanging on to their premium talent (like Montero, Joba and Hughes). I am really excited to see how the Cashman vision is playing out now that he has control and isn’t being pushed too much (though I assume he probably would have let A-Rod walk).
Oh, and I should say, I think that they should sign Chapman, despite commenting that I thought that the other high profile IFA deals that didn’t work out would sour them on making a big signing (because I believe the latter, which is a statement about my vision of the teams likely behaviour, but I still want to see Chapman in pinstripes).
Of course, the Igawa deal looks much worse because of the idiotic posting fee they committed. His salary isn’t the problem, it’s really the size of the entire deal.
“Of course, the Igawa deal looks much worse because of the idiotic posting fee they committed. His salary isn’t the problem, it’s really the size of the entire deal.”
They pay a 40% tax on his salary, not on the posting fee.
“Signing a high quality IFA option like Chapman obviates the need to sign the Carl Pavanos of the MLB world.”
or is it
signing a high quality mlb option like aj obviates the need to sign the key igawa’s of the world?
the fact is all you can do is make your best judgement and try all avenues to find the pitching talent it takes to get the job done.
Random thoughts:
I hope this wont come off as seeming ungrateful (because I am not) but:
I find the yankees new found religion on the budget both ironic as well as somewhat laughable.
Why ?
The Yankees are a cash cow.
Between the YES network, concession deals, outrageous prices on food and spirits at the stadium, etc. They are making a mint. And that is great.
What isn’t so great is that if they are now on a strict budget then i agree with G. Love and they ought to start applying some of that savings to better ticket prices and lowered costs on fare at the stadium.
I dont think they are gonna do it.
It’s ironic, to me at least, that the very thing that was a hallmark of Yankee power (their money) is now being derided by some as “excess”.
I ask you, what is “excess” for a team that just continues to churn out money ?
Aroldis chapman, MH, etc ?
Passing on them is a sign of the new frugality when getting them helps the Yanks to reign sumpreme for years to come.
This supposed to be wrong. For the Yanks to be the best they can be ?
To settle for GGBG over either Damon or MH ?
This makes sense. Sure in a paralell universe maybe but not for the Yankees.
Not in my opinion.
Sorry.
In my opinion the Yankees should use whatever bullets are at their disposal to continue to reign supreme because they are a premiere franchise in all the world of sports.
And they have earned that distinction, and I hope they never back away from what they are.
Watching the yankees now with their new found budget religion in hand is like hearing a drunk swear off his next drink.
personally I hope the yanks keep on binging as much they want to for as long as they can.
They are the Yankees and I hope no one needs to say more.
I apologize for the length of this post but I wanted to get this off my chest.
The Yanks Pacific Rim scouting coordinator that sent the reports on Igawa was John Cox. It was on his recommendation thar Igawa was signed. It was also Cox that recommended Matsui and Wang. Cox was fired a year after Igawa was signed. Hard to blame Cashman for going on the recommendations of his scouts.
“Rich in NJ
January 4th, 2010 at 9:20 am
“Of course, the Igawa deal looks much worse because of the idiotic posting fee they committed. His salary isn’t the problem, it’s really the size of the entire deal.”
They pay a 40% tax on his salary, not on the posting fee.”
Yeah, I realize that, but what I was referring to is the fact that they paid a $26m posting fee on top of the $20m contract. If we were only discussing the $20m contract he signed (luxury tax or not), then we this would be a totally different discussion. $20m is a lot of money, but for a 5 year deal it’s not insane. But $46m for an unknown like Igawa is crazy (well, actually, more like idiotic).
MTU,
“or is it
signing a high quality mlb option like aj obviates the need to sign the key igawa’s of the world?
the fact is all you can do is make your best judgement and try all avenues to find the pitching talent it takes to get the job done.”
There is never a need to sign the Igawas of the world under any circumstances.
It was only two or three years ago that Cash said that developing homegrown pitchers would prevent them having to overpay free agents. I still think that having a productive mL pipeline is the best course of action.
The Yankees don’t get a shot at high ceiling prospects like Chapman very often. They need to take advantage of the opportunity.
Igawa wasn’t exactly unknown. The scouting consenses of most teams was that he was the 2nd best starter available out of Japan. Much like most teams wanted Pavano and even offered more, it was the Yanks that got stuck with them.
“Yeah, I realize that, but what I was referring to is the fact that they paid a $26m posting fee on top of the $20m contract. If we were only discussing the $20m contract he signed (luxury tax or not), then we this would be a totally different discussion. $20m is a lot of money, but for a 5 year deal it’s not insane. But $46m for an unknown like Igawa is crazy (well, actually, more like idiotic).”
It is insane when you consider the luxury tax implications and that it may be affecting their ability to stay at or under a $200m budget. The posting fee is a sunk cost, which I believe is an important concept to them.
GB7
It should have been apparent that Igawa’s stuff wouldn’t translate to MLB.
You can’t discount the fact that Yankees have to pay a luxury tax on salary over a certain dollar amount. You can’t discount that this money helps the competing teams that partake of that windfall, whether it allows them to compete in the free agent market or merely allows them to stay afloat (not spending the money on players).
The Yankees will never be in a position to not be paying the luxury tax. But I certainly don’t blame them for wanting to keep this to whatever figure it is that they have deemed “reasonable” for their franchise.
And the fact is they can win even keeping to a relatively stringent budget.
I also find no problem with Cashman not splurging this off season if the Yankees have determined that no one available is worth splurging on. And the so-called hot-stove season is not over yet, so we can’t really say with certainty that they have made that determination.
I think they can win with the roster as is. There’s always room for improvement, but if they decide to go into battle as currently armed, they’re in good shape. And they can always make changes as they go.
MTU, I understand where you are coming from but a new way of spending money was needed for sure. I agree that passing up certain players to save cash kinda gets away from who they are and why they became the richest team in baseball. They are the richest because they have won the most..However they just spent 1.1 billion on a new stadium and are probably tired of giving money away to crappy teams via the luxary tax. There is a fine line between spending wildly and losing what got the Yankees where they are..let’s hope they know how to walk that tightrope.
i used to go to games all the time, then as tickets got harder to get and more expensive, i started going once or twice a year, then 3 years ago i went once, and i havent really thought about it the past few years.
i can afford the tickets, etc. but the question is do i feel its worth it to spend that kind of dough when i can just stay home and watch it on tv. and over the past few years the answer has become a resounding no. to me there are just too many other things i’d prefer to spend $200+ on than watching a baseball game.
im glad plenty of other people dont have a problem spending that kind of money for a ballgame, it keeps the yankees on top, but i dont see prices ever coming back to reality, and i dont see myself in NYS anytime soon.
GB7 -
Thanks for pointing that out about Igawa. That, and the fact that the Yankees never ever touted him as anything more than a fifth starter (which isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement anyway). He simply couldn’t adapt.
Rich in NJ
January 4th, 2010 at 9:36 am
GB7
It should have been apparent that Igawa’s stuff wouldn’t translate to MLB.
————————————————————
That’s pretty easy for you to throw out there after 3 years, especially since you had never seen him. The scouts of different teams diagreed with you.
Doreen – Ain’t it Just “Grand”?
January 4th, 2010 at 9:39 am
GB7 -
Thanks for pointing that out about Igawa. That, and the fact that the Yankees never ever touted him as anything more than a fifth starter (which isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement anyway). He simply couldn’t adapt.
————————————————————
Not sure what happened other than a miscalculation by the scouts. At one time, they thought that it might by that the MLB baseballs were larger than Japanese League baseballs and he couldn’t adapt to them as well as the others had.
GreenBeret7
January 4th, 2010 at 9:33 am
Igawa wasn’t exactly unknown. The scouting consenses of most teams was that he was the 2nd best starter available out of Japan. Much like most teams wanted Pavano and even offered more, it was the Yanks that got stuck with them.
========
We can blame Schilling for that.
Pavano was enthused by the prospect of signing with Boston until he spent an entire day with Curt Schilling. I’m sure he barely survived the one day – and decided an entire baseball season would be unbearable.
It seems Schilling showed him his trophy room, had him over for lunch, etc.
Remember when Schilling was trying to get Randy Johnson to sign with Boston? He kept trying his cell, but it wasn’t working?
I believe when asked about it, Johnson said something like “Yeah, well, there’s a reason I changed my cell phone number…”
By the way, I give Cox credit for hanging behind to watch the unknown Wang on a scouting excursion while the other scouts scampered off to Japan…
He apparently watched Wang do the ice-water thing to get out of a jam and then picked up the phone to call the Yanks…
Bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
January 4th, 2010 at 10:01 am
By the way, I give Cox credit for hanging behind to watch the unknown Wang on a scouting excursion while the other scouts scampered off to Japan…
He apparently watched Wang do the ice-water thing to get out of a jam and then picked up the phone to call the Yanks…
————————————————————
One fluke injury is a main reason that NYY’s not working on 16 straight years of playoffs. Regardless of what some people continue to say, Wang was outstanding. Of all of his games, I remember the 2007 game against the Mets at Shea. 8.1 inning start, 6 hits, 2 runs, 1 walk and 10 strikeouts. 95% of his pitches that night were high fastballs that they couldn’t touch.
Wimp!!!!!! You want cold, come to FAIRBANKS, ALASKA. You are having spring weather there.