The Stars Are Underground
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 03, 2010 
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For the past few weeks I’ve been listening to almost nothing but The Frames, a great Irish band that’s massive back in Ireland but remains fairly unknown in America. For whatever reason, they left me wondering, who of the Yankees is huge in this fan base but remains unappreciated elsewhere?
Obviously Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera are more beloved in New York than anywhere else, but all of baseball is well aware they’re Hall of Famers. Don Mattingly was pretty popular everywhere (I knew a minor league pitcher who grew up a Red Sox fan, but his favorite player of all time was Mattingly). Curtis Granderson and CC Sabathia have come to New York with their reputations already established.
I suspect, though, that Robinson Cano might be lost in the shuffle for some outside observers. I think most baseball fans are well aware he’s one of the best second basemen in baseball, but they’d be surprised to learn he’s twice finished in the top 25 of MVP voting. I certainly think Scott Brosius fits the profile. He throws out post-season first pitches at Yankee Stadium, but most everywhere else he’s just a vaguely familiar third baseman.
Oddly enough, Andy Pettitte might be the best example on the current roster. I say that because I’m not sure I knew just how good he was until I left Missouri.
Are there Yankees you’ve seen who leave you feeling like you’re in on the secret, that you see greatness where the rest of the baseball universe isn’t paying attention?
Um, Brett Gardner? hahaha
How about Aceves? He was an integral part of the pen last year, and being an obscure find out of the Mexican league, I’d bet fans outside of the northeast know little about him.
Ro, that is an excellent choice!
Man, I hate when a new thread starts while a typing an entry in the old one!
Anyway, repost.
Lance -
(If you’re around)
I can meet you half way and agree that Gardner at least cooled off once the season began.
I read the article you linked to. They lost me when they decided, without benefit of stats or much back story, that “we can all agree” that Gardner is a better CF than Granderson. (Seems obvious to me that the opposite is true.)
The first half of the article took great pains to compare Gardner to Melky (comparing minor league stats to major league stats, which is suspect in my mind), and then jumped to the conclusion that Gardner was better than —— Granderson.
I understand that the author of the article was stuck in a snowstorm away from all his usual sources of information, but at least a cursory something about Granderson’s defense compared to Gardner’s would have lent more credibility to his conclusion.
Anyway, as of this date, it sure looks like BG is going to be the starting LF for the NYY. He may not be my favorite or my choice, but I’ll sure as heck root for him to prove me wrong.
For me it was Matsui. His contribution to the Yankees the last 7 years was huge, but he really did not get the recognition. He was the ultimate RBI guy/clutch hitter.
bdog375 -
That’s a good choice. I think Matsui always flew under the radar. To me, part of it was he never really revealed himself to us – interviews were always in Japanese through an interpreter. The few glimpses we had into his emotion were precious. A fresh and particularly amusing one was when he hit the walk-off and flipped his helmet off.
Definatley Arod, maybe one day of he keeps playing well the mainstream media will notice him..
Good points on Matsui, also [and I loved how he flipped his helmet and then rationalized it, too!]
Cano is a good choice. Pettitte has played in so many World Series and playoff games that he is a known quantity around baseball. But Cano is probably underappreciated (even though he nearly won a batting title in 2006.
Bdog,
I agree Godzilla was under the radar for non yank fans . A lot of my NL friends didn’t know him well until WS. Swisher had the potential to be an important glue, he hovered around that all year. Hopefully Swish and Brett G become ” unknown” vital cogs this yr.
I know it is sort of hard to call this person under the radar but I think that Jorge Posada falls into this category. He takes a lot of flack from fans because of his defense and the so called issues he has with certain pitchers but just look at what happened when he was missing due to injury for most of 2008. I think his leadership in the clubhouse gets lost in the shuffle, the accountability he places on players. I also think that when asking most baseball fans and talk about the better catchers in the league his name would not come up. I believe that in looking at his offensive stats he is one of the better ones in the game and perhaps in thehistory of the game.
I would not put Brosius on the list…..For a player to be unappreciated elsewhere, it probably means he has to be an all-star type caliber player who, for some reason, IS inexplicably underappreciated.
Gayle, I was thinking about Posada as well………
Gayle -
Posada’s a good choice too.
(I’m not too good thinking these up myself, but I’m great at agreeing with someone else’s choices! )
Maybe Phil Hughes………..I know he struggled badly in the post-season, but he was completely dominant as a set-up man until then.
Fans around the league probably think of Phil as a failed starter; I can’t wait for him to show the world (and Yankee fans who have given up on him) what he can do.
Fans around the league probably think of Phil as a failed starter; I can’t wait for him to show the world (and Yankee fans who have given up on him) what he can do.
Here’s how under appreciated posada is. Watch fans run by him to jeter. Funny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....tube_gdata
Non Yankee fans hardly even know who brosius is but yet he was a critical part of the Yankees success in the late 90s.
I have no idea what “The whole Baseball Universe” thinks.
I will say by the tone of this blog, Posada is not appreciated enough by his own Yankee planet.
I think Posada is a HOFer, yet you rarely hear that tag attached to his name. To catch for that long and put up the numbers he has for so many years.. He has 5 rings and was a vital part of 4 of them..
Matsui seems to have been under the radar his entire career. That’s what makes him so valuable. Yanks dont win this year wihtout his clutch hit against Boston and the playoffs. The Yanks will Matsui more than Damon.
Tarheelyank January 3rd, 2010 at 10:07 am
I have no idea what “The whole Baseball Universe” thinks.
I will say by the tone of this blog, Posada is not appreciated enough by his own Yankee planet.
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I have to agree 100%……..
How bout El Duche?
Actually, Pettitte is considered by most of the fans of other teams as average or slightly less and that the only reason he wins is because he plays for the Yankees. Posada is considered a below average catcher, defensively, that he’s ok as a hitter. and that’s just the Yankee fans.
David Robertson seems to get unappreciated by some fans. I bet, no other MLB fans know how vital he was for the bullpen.
repeat from last subject:
Mike S.
January 3rd, 2010 at 9:16 am
Pierre’s an all-around hitter? Hmm. You have me scratching my head there. Gardner had an OPS+ of 93 last year. Pierre has reached that just three times in his career.
You have to give Gardner time. He has 150 games and 425 AB under his belt, roughly the equivalent of one full season. You can’t judge anyone after one full season.
Take a look at Brett Butler’s beginning in 1981 and 1982. How he was after his first 366 AB. Butler I bring up because he is the type of player Gardner must try to become. Where blogs around in January of 1983, what do you think would have been said of Butler? Probably the same things said of Gardner, yet Butler went on to steal over 500 bases, hit .290 and have 2375 hits.
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I’ll repeat this for you one more time. The issue isn’t so much about his fielding. It’s about his inability or lack of desire to maximize what skills he has. He has bunted 18 times in his career. 9 ended up as sac bunts. 2 were hits. You don’t have a problem with that? Even Nick Swisher had 6 bunts in 2009…3 for sac bunts and 2 for hits.
Can’t go wrong with the Frames. They fit in perfectly with my Wilco, Snow Patrol collection.
Most under the radar? I have to agree with Gayle, IMO, it’s Posada, if for no other reason than his longevity in the under the radar category. He gets no respect as a “catcher” and only a little more as an offensive force.
Compare him to Tek if you want to know his relative worth in the division during his career – and everybody’s heard of Tek.
Posada is below average defensively but his bat over the years has been so much better on average than the opposing team that it more than makes up for it and has given the Yankees a huge positional advantage over other teams. He has good leadership qualities and plays adequate defense..he’s nowhere near piazza bad. That’s why they need to do everything they can to keep Montero behind the dish.
Count me in on the Posada choice. He is one of the “core 4″ yet it is always Derek and Mo that get the attention. I think Posada’s worth to the team was realized when he was out in 2008.
Varitek is a great receiver, one of the best I’ve seen at framing pitches and he’s a great leader but he hasn’t been able to throw anybody out in quite awhile and he’s never been close to Posada offensively. Posadas longevity playing at the level he has at that position is amazing. He should be in Cooperstown one day.
Robertson’s under the radar nationally.
Juan Pierre sucks. Gardy has a pretty good chance to be better cause he walks more.
I think Posada’s personality works against him at times. Seems like a jerk quite often, even alienating teammates.
But, he gets bonus points in my book for the outstanding wife. Wow.
Posada’s a Hall of Famer.
Pettitte and Posada are two players that are appreciated more by fans of other teams.
This is especially true of Posada.
Defensive catchers are backup catchers that bounce from team to team because they can’t hit. Posada is now an average defensive catcher. I’ve never heard of one of the pitchers ever complain that he calls for nothing but fastballs so he can pad his defensive numbers. Ivan Rodriguez has 5 teams full of those complainers.
Hey Chad,
Have you seen Once? Glen Hansard (the lead singer of The Frames) stars and his co-star in the movie, Marketa Irglova, is currently his band mate in the group The Swell Season.
Great movie, definitely the best musical of the last decade, and “Falling Slowly” – Academy Award winner for Best Song – is one of many great songs off the soundtrack.
Posada definitely deserves more respect than he gets. Remember when Varitek was voted to the ASG when he had a .200 AVG and couldn’t throw out any basestealers?
i dont see jorge as a hof guy.. his bat picked up midway thru his career (so did his muscles…), strong arm, but pretty average behind the plate.
blake
January 3rd, 2010 at 10:23 am
Varitek is a great receiver, one of the best I’ve seen at framing pitches and he’s a great leader but he hasn’t been able to throw anybody out in quite awhile and he’s never been close to Posada offensively. Posadas longevity playing at the level he has at that position is amazing. He should be in Cooperstown one day.
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This has to be a joke. Varitek has been a joke for 5 years. Boston’s been trying to run him off for 4 years. He’s only brought back because Boston hasn’t been able to find a replacement…though, God knows, they’ve tried.
i’d say that he gains a lot of points for his leadership qualities. i remember how strongly he stood up the yr we got bounced by the angels. l like that
This team is so loaded with All-Stars, it’s probably hard to pick an underappreciated “sleeper.” But, if you’re going back to all the players I watched play, how about Willie Randolph? He’s now somewhat of an icon in New York given his managerial experience, but while he was playing, he was overshadowed on his own team by Jackson and Munson and even the far inferior player but matinee idol Dent. And he was overshadowed nationally by other perennial All-Star 2Bs like Frank White and Joe Morgan and Lou Whitaker. Yet he could have easily been an All-Star each year, and he was a vital member of 2 World Champion and 4 pennant winning teams. In fact, he was named co-captain of the team, but yet, while his co-captain, Guidry, was given a “Ron Guidry Day” and a plaque in Monument Park, Randolph got bupkis. I never understood that.
Chien Ming Wang? Even many of us Yankees fans didn’t think too much of him because of his low K rate.
“I think Posada’s personality works against him at times. Seems like a jerk quite often, even alienating teammates.”
25 guys spend almost every day together for 162 games plus ST and playoffs away from family and friends and they are all competitive and egotistical. They all take turns rubbing each other the wrong way. But at the end of the day, Po is one of the pillars of their little society.
I can’t think of a single game he lost with his “personality” and there are more than a few he no doubt helped win by being 100% committed to winning. If I were in a foxhole Jorgie would one guys I’d be happy to see next to me.
jvcelt
January 3rd, 2010 at 10:30 am
i dont see jorge as a hof guy.. his bat picked up midway thru his career (so did his muscles…), strong arm, but pretty average behind the plate.
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when would “half way through his career” be?
I didn’t realize just how good of a baseball player Teixeira was before he came to the Yankees.
I knew he was good, obviously, his resume spoke for itself. But there are some things about a player you don’t find out until you watch them everyday.
AARON BOONE
oh… and because of his 2007 postseason explosion
“This has to be a joke. Varitek has been a joke for 5 years. Boston’s been trying to run him off for 4 years. He’s only brought back because Boston hasn’t been able to find a replacement…though, God knows, they’ve tried.”
They thought enough of him to make him their captain. He was a good catcher but he hasn’t been able to throw or hit in several years. I was saying he’s not nearly the player Posada is if you missed my point.
“AARON BOONE”
You left out his middle name
Posada has never been linked to any PED’s and his numbers have been pretty consistent throughout his career.
blake
January 3rd, 2010 at 10:37 am
“This has to be a joke. Varitek has been a joke for 5 years. Boston’s been trying to run him off for 4 years. He’s only brought back because Boston hasn’t been able to find a replacement…though, God knows, they’ve tried.”
They thought enough of him to make him their captain. He was a good catcher but he hasn’t been able to throw or hit in several years. I was saying he’s not nearly the player Posada is if you missed my point.
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They thought enough of him to dress him up like a clown by sewing a letter “C” on his chest so everyone knew he was “The Captain”. Have you ever seen another captain of a baseball team wear one?
GB7, lol. I take it you’re not a Vtek fan…
“They thought enough of him to dress him up like a clown by sewing a letter “C” on his chest so everyone knew he was “The Captain”. Have you ever seen another captain of a baseball team wear one?”
Is that what the “C” was for? All this time I thought he had to be reminded of what position he played.
I’m really hopeful that Cano will have that breakout season that we’ve been anticipating. He’ll be 27, and his pal Melky is gone. It appears now’s the time to stop goofing around, and become a true force in this lineup.
Varitek is and has always been a jerk and because Boston needed a puppet for the media jerks and fans, he was selected. Damon and Millar were more of the team captains than Varitek. Just like the real team captains of the Yankees are Posada and Rivera.
“Is that what the “C” was for? All this time I thought he had to be reminded of what position he played.”
The C stands for C**T. The Yanks still owe this chump a beatdown in the parking lot.
# Phil the Thrill January 3rd, 2010 at 10:26 am
Robertson’s under the radar nationally.
Juan Pierre sucks. Gardy has a pretty good chance to be better cause he walks more.
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Pierre average 188 hit per year over his ten years on his way to a possible 2,000 hits…..Gardner isn’t coming close to that
“i dont see jorge as a hof guy.. his bat picked up midway thru his career ”
Half way through his career? That’s simply not true. Posada has always been an elite-level hitting catcher.
Tarheelyank
January 3rd, 2010 at 10:52 am
“They thought enough of him to dress him up like a clown by sewing a letter “C” on his chest so everyone knew he was “The Captain”. Have you ever seen another captain of a baseball team wear one?”
Is that what the “C” was for? All this time I thought he had to be reminded of what position he played.
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I was never sure if it meant catcher, captain or Clarabell The Clown. I’m leaning towards the third one.
I think Posada’s greatness goes under the radar around the country, one of the more ridiculous things is that fans that aren’t knowledgeable from around the country probably think varitek is better than Posada because of all the hype espn has given him over the years over his “great game calling”.
Chad,
You said you didn’t appreciate how good Andy Pettitte was until you left Missouri. Please don’t come out of the closet one day and tell us you’re headed back to St. Louie to cover the only team you ever truly loved! After P.A.’s abrupt departure from this site to cover the Red Menace to the north, my Yankee spirit would be dashed if I were to have to face another grim reality such as that.
I really appreciate your insight here at LoHud so don’t get any wild ideas, mister!
murphydog
January 3rd, 2010 at 10:35 am
“I think Posada’s personality works against him at times. Seems like a jerk quite often, even alienating teammates.”
25 guys spend almost every day together for 162 games plus ST and playoffs away from family and friends and they are all competitive and egotistical. They all take turns rubbing each other the wrong way. But at the end of the day, Po is one of the pillars of their little society.
I can’t think of a single game he lost with his “personality” and there are more than a few he no doubt helped win by being 100% committed to winning. If I were in a foxhole Jorgie would one guys I’d be happy to see next to me.
=======
Great post.
I’d go to war with Jorgie.
Mo, Jete and Pettitte also invited.
There are also players that are vastly overrated by hometown fans. In New York, Scott Brosius may be the best example.
I think the distance between the reality of what Brosisus was as a player and what some Yankee fans think he was is an almost unbridgeable gulf.
Whatsa Matta U
January 3rd, 2010 at 10:52 am
I’m really hopeful that Cano will have that breakout season that we’ve been anticipating. He’ll be 27, and his pal Melky is gone. It appears now’s the time to stop goofing around, and become a true force in this lineup.
=====
Yikes that little Melky is powerful.
So – if Cano doesn’t hit .300 and get 200 hits, do they bring Melky back?
I was never sure if it meant catcher, captain or Clarabell The Clown. I’m leaning towards the third one.
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GB,
Why are you insulting Clarabell?
Hope all is well.
“Pierre average 188 hit per year over his ten years on his way to a possible 2,000 hits…..Gardner isn’t coming close to that”
Pierre had about 650 hits by the time he was 26. Gardner didn’t get as early a ML start. That doesn’t mean that Gardner can’t be a Pierre-like player with a little more ISO D going forward.
Gotta go with Cano. He’s even under appreciated by many here who see his gliding as laziness.
Pet Peeve- “Core Four” is getting as annoying to me as “True Yankee” always has been.
Posada or Pettitte are the best choices.
Cano isn’t “under the radar” as much as he’s maligned by dumb people who have access to newspaper/internet space and microphones – y’know, people who think you come to hit .300 and play gold glove defense by goofing off.
Bodhisattva,
Yes, we would have to fly Melky back like Mirabelli style. Chopper in the middle of the stadium.
Tino Martinez. He had big shoes to fill in replacing Don Mattingly, but you cant take away his glove or his bat.
Posada is wildly underrated. Switch hitting C with his OBP and OPS. He’s top 5 C of the 00′s and a fringe HOF.
And for non stat guys, he was clearly the difference in NYY missing the post season in 08, while he was out with injury.
I think it’s Cano, because every time there is a national game on they always mention how Cano will be an amazing hitter in the future and how much his defense improved last season. The announcers wouldn’t mention it every time if he was well respected nationally.
pat
January 3rd, 2010 at 11:10 am
Gotta go with Cano. He’s even under appreciated by many here who see his gliding as laziness.
Pet Peeve- “Core Four” is getting as annoying to me as “True Yankee” always has been.
====
If you mean by Yankee fans, then I whole heartedly agree. I thought Chad meant outside the fan base.
In Cano’s case, even Joe Morgan seems to appreciate him more than most Yankee fans. Joe has had some of his most lucid moments, in fact, discoursing on Cano.
Please do not associate me with that washed up has been Varitek. You’re better than that.
William Buckner
January 3rd, 2010 at 11:13 am
Posada is wildly underrated. Switch hitting C with his OBP and OPS. He’s top 5 C of the 00’s and a fringe HOF.
And for non stat guys, he was clearly the difference in NYY missing the post season in 08, while he was out with injury.
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Oh, I agree it’s Posada, hands down.
He actually defines the “circularity” that has been the Yankees’ lineup. Stunningly, people don’t seem to understand his importance, and just blithely assume the offensive machine rolls on no matter who is catching. His arm, when healthy, is a bit under rated, too.
Joe Morgan might not be a great broadcaster but he was a hell of baseball player. So as an All Star 2B when Joe Morgan praises Cano I pay attention.
Speaking of Andy and PO, Game 3 of 2009 Series is on MLB if interested.
He’s no longer a Yankee(for the moment at least) but I always thought Chien-Ming Wang was very, very under appreciated by some.
He just quiety went about his buisness, and seemed to fly under the radar even though he was a big winner.
The comment, “I knew he was good but not that good” was often made about Teixeira by other Yankee players. When that question was turned back upon Tex, his answer was: Cano.
One thing that will hurt Posada’s HOF chances was that he didn’t become a regular until he was 26 which has hurt his stat compiling ability.. Which is all the HOF seems to care about and why I think its somewhat of a sham..
It’s gotta be Posada. It amazes me how people outside of the Northeast know next to nothing about him. Or think they know all about him, but really have no clue how good he is. Just the fact that Posada is in the discussion as the best catcher of the decade proves it. As almost anyone not in the northeast, that doesnt work in the baseball industry or vigorously study stats – the casual fan – will say that even Varitek is better. It’s atrocious.
Anyone suggest Paul Oneil? He has got to be one of my all time favs, and was amazing for the yankees though I am pretty sure he wasn’t the caliber player he was before he was in NY ( w.o checking stats)
I have to go with Cano. Last night I was watching a little bit of Game 2 of the ALCS on the MLB Network, and was very happy to see Ninja Cano. I LOVED his ninja look!
Fran (the original) and OPPC member
January 3rd, 2010 at 11:08 am
I was never sure if it meant catcher, captain or Clarabell The Clown. I’m leaning towards the third one.
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GB,
Why are you insulting Clarabell?
Hope all is well.
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LMAO. You may be 1 of 5 people on this board that knows that name, Fran. I wonder how many knew that the first Clarabell was Bob Keeshan, who was Captain Kangaroo?
I’m doing fine today, Fran. Thank you for asking. Hope you had a wonderful holiday.
I had Paul O’Neill in the original post, but it was really long so I trimmed some things out.
As for the movie Once. I saw it. I loved it. The soundtrack is one of my favorite albums of the decade. I’m a sucker for singer/songwriter stuff, and if it includes Glen Hansard screaming to music that’s nothing more than an acoustic guitar, all the better.
And I have no plans of moving to St. Louis. I kinda like the job I have!
162 game career averages:
Player A: runs- 83, 2B- 35, HR’s-25, RBI- 98, AVG- .277, OPS- .859.
Player B: runs- 72, 2B- 26, HR’s- 23, RBI- 86, AVG-.262, OPS- .773.
Player A is Jorge Posada
Player B is Gary Carter.
Factor in Posada’s 5 rings and I don’t see any debate on whether he belongs in the HOF.
My second vote goes to Cano.
his athleticism and pure talent is under valued.
Amazing, the amount of criticism the guy has received.
And the trade proposals- well they are misguided to say the least.
“As almost anyone not in the northeast, that doesnt work in the baseball industry or vigorously study stats – the casual fan – will say that even Varitek is better. It’s atrocious”
Doubt this is the case. Varitek does not have more cache nationally than Posada. In fact, he probably has a lot less.
If Posada suffers from any lack of recognition on a national level, the names you really have to blame for that are Piazza, I. Rodriguez, and Mauer.
blake
January 3rd, 2010 at 11:21 am
One thing that will hurt Posada’s HOF chances was that he didn’t become a regular until he was 26 which has hurt his stat compiling ability.. Which is all the HOF seems to care about and why I think its somewhat of a sham..
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Being age 26 didn’t seem to make much difference for Roy Campanella and Warren Spahn.
Dave Robertson is underrated when you compare his stats to Daniel Bard, who many know as a coveted Red Sox prospect.
I also think Aceves was underappreciated this year. Without him, the Yankees have about six less walkoff wins and Mo’s arm is dead in the playoffs. He ate up so many innings with quality pitching and won 10 games in relief.
Did Bernie Williams ever get his due outside on New York? Here’s a guy with a career .297 ba, .381 obp and .858 ops along with sterling postseason cedentials. I’m not sure folks outside of Yankee, and even Red Sox, fans knew how good he was.
“Amazing, the amount of criticism the guy has received”
Problem with that is that the criticism you speak of comes largely from the tri-state area.
“Did Bernie Williams ever get his due outside on New York? ”
Five AS appearances, six top 17 MVP finsishes.
“If you mean by Yankee fans, then I whole heartedly agree. I thought Chad meant outside the fan base.”
Being under appreciated by your own fanbase might be worse than being under appreciated by the outside looking in.
Green Beret 7: One more time. Give him time. More than just one year.
blake -
Eye-opening stats.
GB7 I’m not saying its right..just that all the HOF seems to care about is whether a player piled up a certain amount of numbers. Because Posada got a late start his career numbers aren’t as high as they could be and I think that could hurt him in the voting unfortunately.
el duque
Mike S.
January 3rd, 2010 at 11:54 am
Green Beret 7: One more time. Give him time. More than just one year.
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Until he changes him idea of the type of player he will and needs to be, he’ll scuffle along being no better than a #4 outfielder. He’s not a slugger, like he seems to fancy himself. He’s a slash and dash hitter. A huge majority of his game is being able to bunt for hits and move runners up. In 400+ at bats, he’s failed at that part of the game miserably. 25% of his outs have been fly ball outs. He’s not this defensive stud that people make him out to be. He’s pretty good….that’s the facts.
Jose Molina
(I am getting ready to watch the wussy Cole Hamels spit the bit.)
“I think Posada’s personality works against him at times.”
Don’t disagree.
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It’s a killer watching Sui perform in the world series, now knowing he won’t be back.
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I’m okay with whatever the Yanks end up doing, but I will be fine with Gardner playing left. Now that we have Granderson to lead off, I won’t be unhappy having some speed in left. I truly believe Damon has seen his better days in the field.
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You have just been “treated” to another drive by post by Trisha. I’m thinking that it’s my laissez faire attitude toward arm-chair managing that keeps me from feeling the need to be here 24-7.
Bo Knows
January 3rd, 2010 at 11:19 am
Joe Morgan might not be a great broadcaster but he was a hell of baseball player. So as an All Star 2B when Joe Morgan praises Cano I pay attention.
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Morgan, when purely focused on the game, is terrific. I, too, find his Cano observations worth listening to.
The problem is, you have to deflate him more of the time. When he’s puffed up, he’s unlistenable (and of course, he can’t hide his NL-bias/historic hatred of the Yankees).
for those looking for some comic relief – its almost the 5th inning of WS game 3 on the MLB network, which means we get to see Andy run the bases
I think Cano- maybe not under the radar, but certainly unappreciated.
Chad,
Having family and friends in Missouti, who favorably look at Jeter,Mariano, and Andy. When Andy was a FA from the Astros, my family was hoping the Cardinals would sign him, and he not go back to the Yankees.
Another male friend in STL has some very costly Lou Gehrig memorabilia worth thousands, that I’ve tried to buy for my Yankees collection, and he won’t sale. If you were to hear him speak of the dislike he has for the Yankees, you’d scratch your head, and wonder why he even has any Yankees the stuff, he’s a Cardinal.
As much garbage as I routinely have thrown my way about the Yankees, this was a breath of fresh air. Yankees are respected, it’s just more popular for some to spew vitriol.
Last week I told one of my male friends in St Louis, that he had the demeanor of Mariano, he was overjoyed and thanked me, for comparing him to Mariano. His mother proceeded to tell me how handsome she always found Andy.
One person described to me the hatred toward the Yankees as, not really hating the Yankees, because they’d take any of their players, but about hating their success!
You have just been “treated” to another drive by post by Trisha. I’m thinking that it’s my laissez faire attitude toward arm-chair managing that keeps me from feeling the need to be here 24-7.
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Hey Trisha!
I declared a moratorium on the internet from the time we went out of town on Christmas Eve through four days.
It was very refreshing. Came back to check on the comments here and I see: “So, are we signing Holliday?”
It’s like a soap opera – you can miss two weeks and you haven’t missed anything
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Good to see you, ma’am.
thanks NYY626. I am really enjoying the mlb network end of year shows as well.
I gotta give props to my man Aceves. Such a beast, but is never given any credit.
upstate kate
January 3rd, 2010 at 12:19 pm
I think Cano- maybe not under the radar, but certainly unappreciated.
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I think, honestly, that Cano’s smoothness is actually visually missed by some fans.
They, in earnest, don’t really recognize how good he is. They repeat what others say about that smoothness, but they themselves don’t actually “see” it – therefore it’s not something they can appreciate first-hand.
And in the end, his skills are so good, that there’s no point of crisis for them to identify with emotionally – so his talent is somewhat alienating for fans.
He doesn’t create dirt clouds like little Dusty (with his less-than-Cano range) so he won’t be cast as “heroic” for seamlessly making plays.
Rich in NJ,
I think the All Star games are indicative of how Bernie was somewhat overshadowed nationally.
In Bernie’s 5 All Star games he was put on the team by Joe Torre in 4 of them. Only in 2000 was voted on the team by the nation’s fans.Some guy named Griffey kept getting the nod. But in ’96 Bernie hit .305 with 29 homers and 102 rbi and didnt make the team because Torre wasnt the All Star game manager. In ’98 he was named to the team but wasn’t used by Mike Hargrove.
upstate kate,
I agree about the mlb network. My wife & I watched the replay last night of Game 2 of the ALCS. We were at the game and enjoyed watching it without shivering.lol
Bod – just seeing your name makes me smile!
I had a moment when I thought that maybe I’m not as good a Yankee fan as I thought since I don’t feel the need to spend my entire offseason on this forum, but it quickly disappeared when I watched Tex hit a homer in the rerun of Game 2 of the WS and immediately started to cry. Truth as we speak. I am such a baby.
P.S. Thank you for my sister Fran for letting me know about this MLB WS marathon today. I am beside myself with delight watching this all over again! The best part is listening to the player commentary during the game. (Andy just got a hit and the tying run just scored. OMG I am loving this.)
XOX
mlb network is showing the world series all day if anyone is interested in anything but football. game 3 from Halloween night is on right now
NYY626
January 3rd, 2010 at 12:18 pm
for those looking for some comic relief – its almost the 5th inning of WS game 3 on the MLB network, which means we get to see Andy run the bases
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Thanks for the heads up! I love seeing Andy run the bases with Jeter like one step behind him.
Don’t know why St. Louis Cards fans should be jealous. Their team has the 2nd most WS titles in baseball history, including three against the Yankees.
Likewise, Trish
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There was a wonderful sight to greet me this morning when I went into one of the other Yankee forums I post on.
A loyal poster there, a young man, is dealing with cancer and he had been hospitalized, posted a few times, and then just dropped out of sight.
We kept a thread going for him – hoping he would return…he posted this morning, saying that after four months his cancer got bored and has retreated…I just wanted to thank again those whom I asked here to pray for him.
pat – your mother included him in her rosary prayers…and others here also enthusiastically said they would pray…thank you.
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I think Brosius is good because, if you were the fan of, say, a National League team (not the Mets) and showed up to an old timers game where Scotty was announced, you would be absolutely dumbfounded as to why this relatively light-hitting third baseman was cheered so loudly.
As far as “bigger” players who were underappreciated, I would go with El Duque, one of my favorite all-time players, and then Mike Mussina. I know he didn’t win a championship, but he was really a terrific pitcher for the Yankees and, in my mind, he is a hall of famer (certainly debateable, but he makes it in my book because he spent his entire wonderful career in the AL East). It feels like he is both underappreciated by Yankee fans and baseball fans as a whole, but there was many a season between 01 and 08 (the vast majority of them, actually) where he was the best pitcher on the team and one of the best in all of baseball. He just did it in the non-flashy way.
Bodhi
I agree. I think Cano makes some hard plays look easy, while Pedroia makes some easy plays look hard, so he gets credit for being a gritty player.
Last week I had a person tell me that they were going to steal Mo from the Yankees,when he becomes a FA. After I finished laughing.
I enlightened him of a few facts.
1.When has Any team evah stole a Yankee from the Yankees, they can’t outbid the Yankees? He mentioned Andy going to the Astros. I said that was Andy’s choice, he wasn’t stolen. Yankees didn’t make an offer, and where is he now?
2.Mariano’s arm would have to fall off before the Yankees let him go.
3.Mariano has nevah entertained the idea of playing for any other team, he bleeds Yankees!
4. He will go into the HOF as a Yankee, and as the greatest closer in baseball!
5. Because of his body of work, don’t be surprised to find an award named after him for EXCELLENCE in closers, since they never can win the CY.
He shut up quickly.
Bod – and then there are times when not being here means missing some important stuff. As someone who really believes in the power of prayer I will definitely add your forum friend to my prayers. And for future reference, if other prayers are needed and I’m not around, drop me a line at yankeetrisha@verizon.net. Seriously.
upstate kate
January 3rd, 2010 at 12:35 pm
Bodhi
I agree. I think Cano makes some hard plays look easy, while Pedroia makes some easy plays look hard, so he gets credit for being a gritty player.
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Yeah, and although Trish and I have some fun joking about little Dusty, he’s a good defender.
The joke is, when he’s discussed as as good as, and even BETTER than Cano…not in Cano’s league.
Damon enjoy 27….think 28
January 3rd, 2010 at 12:39 pm
Last week I had a person tell me that they were going to steal Mo from the Yankees,when he becomes a FA. After I finished laughing.
I enlightened him of a few facts.
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I give you a lot of credit-I don’t know how you managed to stop laughing.
trisha – OPPC forever – (new lucky picture from last day at the old Stadium) BRING ON THE GHOSTS!
January 3rd, 2010 at 12:41 pm
Bod – and then there are times when not being here means missing some important stuff. As someone who really believes in the power of prayer I will definitely add your forum friend to my prayers. And for future reference, if other prayers are needed and I’m not around, drop me a line at yankeetrisha@verizon.net. Seriously.
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Thanks, you’re an angel.
His name is Jonathan. Sign me up when you need me to pray. Seriously
Trisha,
It is fun watching the games “stress free”
Bodhi,
All ready for the game tonight? Can’t believe that we actually have to root for the Patriots to win today. Glad that the poster on the other forum came back.
Cardinals have 10 WS Yankees own 27. Cardinals are a very distant 2nd.
Erin,
I know that you like the muppets so set your DVR for Extreme Home Makeover tonight. The muppets are helping with the remodeling.
Two of the worst calls I ever made:
1. The Yankees did not need Mark Teixeira
2. The Yankees did not need to re-sign Andy Pettitte for the 2009 season.
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I live and die by defense and pitching. I know teams need offense, naturally, but I don’t care a whit about it as compared to dying for good defense and pitching. I’ve always felt that way. I thrill to a cannon of an arm in the outfield and Tex-type defense in the infield. I mention this only because Tex just made another one of his effortless phenomenal plays in the infield. Good lord.
About Robbie – when Robbie first played for the Yankees I waxed poetic about his promising defense and was immediately shut down by one of the NY Times forum “I obviously know better than you do” guys who told me that he had no real promise defensively. It was the same guy who told me I didn’t know what I was talking about when I said defense at first base was really important and he insisted that it was vastly overrated and not really necessary.
Jerk.
Erin
Some ignorance is just funny, and baseless!
Fran (the original) and OPPC member
January 3rd, 2010 at 12:47 pm
Trisha,
It is fun watching the games “stress free”
Bodhi,
All ready for the game tonight? Can’t believe that we actually have to root for the Patriots to win today. Glad that the poster on the other forum came back.
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Thanks, Fran. I appreciated your prayers for Jonathan.
Yeah – rooting for Billy B. not my idea of a good time, but it must be done for the greater cause.
Fran, we’re combing the house trying to find warm stuff to wear. It’s going to be ugly-cold, and I expect we’ll see a lot of Jonesy up the middle today. I cringe thinking of Edwards – who’s a great receiver, nonetheless – trying to gain more yards and holding the ball at arm’s length while he does it. He’s also the receiver most likely to tip the ball away….I have my fears going in….
Did you manage to get a ticket?
Cano is extremely underrated. When you look at his 2009 numbers, and then consider that he did it so late in the order, its amazing. Obviously he had great players on base for most of the RBIs, but I really believe that if Cano played in the NL West or another “weaker” division, and had the same or similar numbers, he’d finish much higher than 25 in voting.
What in hell was up with Jason Werth? I think I will have to accuse him of using steroids, and Raul Ibanez also.
Thank you, thank you.
Hah! My GF just found an old Coles jersey in the rubble. She loved him – but not the day to wear it!
Bodhi,
Still waiting for to hear from my newphew. If he doesn’t give me the ticket, I think I will just watch the game on TV (and disown him-just kidding).
Braylon needs to come up big tonight-after all he guaranteed a victory!
Stay warm and let’s go Jets.
F.Y.I
Yankees fans today is the official date that the crimson sox sold The Babe to the Yankees, 90 yrs ago today!!
Robinson Cano does fine when there is in pressure on, and in the regular season. Put a man on base and his game disappears and what did he do for us in the playoffs absolutely nothing he just dissappeared. What we are going to miss is the clutch at bats from Melky and more importantly Matsui especially against the Red Sox.
Fran (the original) and OPPC member
January 3rd, 2010 at 12:57 pm
Bodhi,
Still waiting for to hear from my newphew. If he doesn’t give me the ticket, I think I will just watch the game on TV (and disown him-just kidding).
Braylon needs to come up big tonight-after all he guaranteed a victory!
Stay warm and let’s go Jets.
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Fran, stay home! It’s warmer there!
JK, hope he comes through for you. We’re lucky, as our seats are near the concourse on lower tier, so we can do emergency runs to the bathroom to warm up. Too bad the bums won’t let you bring in a thermos, but we’ll try to smuggle one in.
New post.
Damon enjoy 27….think 28
January 3rd, 2010 at 12:59 pm
F.Y.I
Yankees fans today is the official date that the crimson sox sold The Babe to the Yankees, 90 yrs ago today!!
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My dad saw Ruth play. Always remarked how under rated his speed was. Thanks for the factoid.
im on vacation, i just checked in to read and i had to comment on this one.
Hideki Matsui made me proud to be a yankees fan. I get the whole ‘baseball is a buisness’ thing but it always seemed to me that godzilla really got what it means to be a yankee and what it means to be a professional baseball player. I’ll deal with him being gone next season, but i will never forget his time in pinstripes. there is not likely going to be anyone to replace his place in my mind for a long time to come!
thanks hideki and best of luck!
Fran (the original) and OPPC member
January 3rd, 2010 at 12:49 pm
Erin,
I know that you like the muppets so set your DVR for Extreme Home Makeover tonight. The muppets are helping with the remodeling.
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Fran-thank you. I already have it set to record, but I really appreciate the reminder!!
Erin,
Figured that you would know, but just in case…
Enjoy.
Bobby
Once Melky came back from the DL after hitting the wall, he wasn’t clutch. In the WS he wasn’t clutch. We’ll miss Melky, but he was frustrating to watch in his at bats, no discipline.
HIP HIP JORGE!!!!!!!
I think Po is under-rated in part because his high walk rate is under-appreciated. People still look more at batting average than at OPS. Although his HR rate is good, his total number isn’t among the leaders, because as a catcher he has fewer ABs.
Unfortunately, the fact that he’s under-appreciated outside NY is precisely why he won’t be elected to the HoF, even though he deserves to be.
Swisher… Got him for Wilson Betemit. Another poster child for Billy Beane’s moneyball approach. Huge OBP and makes pitchers work in almost Youkilis-like way. Much love from the bleacher creatures. Yankee fans know what a steal they got with him. Lousy in most of the playoffs but HUGE in the crucial game 3 victory. Most Brosius like performance.
Drive 4- 5
Good point, but what about the MVP finishes?
Jorge Posada. It seems odd to call him underrated, as he’s certainly recognized as a great Yankee–but people don’t seem to understand how central he’s been to this Yankees team since he came up. He’s been the best catcher in baseball over the last 12 years, offensively (and it’s not close). That’s not to say he’s been the best catcher in each individual year, of course Mauer has taken that of late. But over that time period, he’s been remarkably consistent (.370 wOBA is silly good for a catcher). The one year the Yankees didn’t make the playoffs, was un-coincidentally the year that Posada was out for the majority of the year with an injury.
We kind of need Montero to stick behind the plate, or for the FO to loosen the already fairly loose purse strings for Joe Mauer (which might be overkill), because when Posada is gone, we’re going to miss him terribly.
I think Bernie is the best example of the last 20 years.
Definitely Bernie from previous years.
Currently, Andy would get my vote for most overlooked. Wang and Aceves for most underappreciated by their own fans.
And what about the reverse? Which player did you not fully appreciate until he came to play for us?
I agree with everyone that said Teixeira. I knew he was outstanding but I didn’t think I’d be rooting for him to get the MVP. I suddenly realized all those line drives that got by Giambi were entirely playable. What an amazing addition to the team.
Has everybody forgotten all of Cano’s GIDPs w/RISP?
Overrated. I was high on the Cano bandwagon for years and years until I had the opportunity to watch him play everyday. The kid will be a perennial All-Star with a small market club, but he’s not clutch.
this is going back a few years: Ramiro Mendoza.
The guy spot-started, pitched long-relief, and got the Yanks out of many late-inning jams throughout his NYY career.
I’ve been an exclusive fan of the Yankees since the early 70′s. For many years, Thurman Munson was my all-time favorite ballplayer, and to this day, I think it’s a dirty shame that the man is given no consideration for membership into the HOF…Thurm doesn’t get much love outside of our hardcore, old-school family. The other Yank, who in my humble opinion walks on water, is Scott Brosius. Like Munson and Leyritz before him, Bro could almost always be counted upon to come through in the clutch. Golden glove, reliable stick, positive attitude, great rapport with his teammates and fans…Scott Brosius is truly a humble and outstanding ballplayer, and a great man – - and outside of Hillsboro, OR, he’s probably completely unknown!
Posada, without a doubt.
No doubt about it. KEI IGAWA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seriously, I agree with those talking about Dave Robertson and Alfredo Aceves
the Nicks, Johnson and Swisher!
you people who think Posada is an under-the-radar type player need to wake up a little. everyone has known he’s great for years…
What about Charlie Hayes, whose image catching the final out in 1996 I will never forget…