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The Johnny question

Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Jan 11, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

A year ago, Bobby Abreu left the Yankees and ended up taking a paycut of nearly 70 percent from his new team (the Angels) after the free-agent market for him completely bottomed out. This year, with February getting ever closer, could Johnny Damon experience the same thing?

In a conversation with Chad last week, Brian Cashman indicated that the ship has sailed on Damon returning to the Yankees. That follows with what we’ve heard from Scott Boras, too, and obviously the two sides had different valuations on Damon earlier this offseason. But could a reunion still happen?

They key, it would seem, is what Damon is willing to accept in terms of a pay cut. He said this weekend that he understands he’s probably going to lose some salary in his next deal, but could he stomach going from the $13 million he made last year to the $6 million or so it seems that the Yankees believe he’s worth? Sure, most of us would look at it and say ‘it’s still $6 million!’ but how would you feel if you had to take a 50 percent pay cut? The Yankees might (understandably) have concerns about the emotional/mental impact on Damon if he comes back with any frustration about how the negotiations went down.

My gut is that someone will eventually offer a two-year deal to Damon and that he’ll take the extra security. If that doesn’t happen, though, and if there are only one-year offers out there, it’s absolutely possible that Damon ends up back in the Bronx. Likely? No. I still think Damon will end up elsewhere. But possible? Yes.

As much as anything, that says a lot about the financial situation in baseball (and this country). A few years ago, such a scenario would have seemed outlandish. In today’s economy, however, many of the old rules for salaries and free agency just don’t apply.

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265 Responses to “The Johnny question”

  1. Hoffa January 11th, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    SJ,

    “I was around the team during Billy’s tenure.”

    In what capacity?

  2. teddy January 11th, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    outside of atl, whose looking for a bat lke damon, thats a contender?

    1 year 5 million, incentives to 7 or 8 gets it done

  3. blake January 11th, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    Sam, who is going to give him a two year deal? I can’t think of anybody.

  4. MTU January 11th, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    Blake-

    I hate to say it but JD really stepped on his own crank.

  5. tex's friend January 11th, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    i know johnny is a professional, but how could he not be affected by taking such a blow to his pride this offseason? Should have taken the 2/14 cash offered weeks ago. i dont really see him getting that anymore, from anyone…

  6. jennifer January 11th, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    There is a big difference between me taking a 50% pay cut and Johnny. Johnny wouldn’t feel my 50% pay cut.

  7. GreenBeret7 January 11th, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    Damon is running out of teams to go to. He’s not likely to go to play in an airport like San Francisco or San Diego, except as a last resort. For the money, whether it’s $6 mil or $10 mil, not many teams are paying that much for a left fielder that may only start 120 games there. Pretty much leaves out NL teams.

  8. blake January 11th, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    I can’t see an NL team giving him two years because of his defense and I can’t think of another AL team that needs a LF/DH.

  9. Rich in NJ January 11th, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    That’s why you don’t waste money on Hairston that could be given to Damon.

  10. Erin January 11th, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    I just don’t see a fit with any other team. I hope JD and the Yankees can work something out.

  11. GreenBeret7 January 11th, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    I think people are making to much out of “Johnny will be embarrassed” stuff. He’s a professional and if anything, it will spur him on to have a great season somewhere. He’s not the type to dog it.

  12. Brian Cashman $$$$$$$ January 11th, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    The New York Yankees and Johnny Damon are PARTING WAYS!

    Go ahead, quote me.

  13. Crawdaddy January 11th, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    “That’s why you don’t waste money on Hairston that could be given to Damon.”

    You don’t waste money by overpaying for Damon either.

  14. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day January 11th, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    Where is Damon going? Atlanta? SF? Pittsburgh? If I’m an NL team, he’s not a good risk…..

    I don’t think Damon come crawling back to the Yankees so I think his tenure in pinstripes is over.

  15. Crawdaddy January 11th, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    Two year deal which team is going to give Damon that?

  16. CountryClub January 11th, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    It surprises me that so many people still want Damon back. He played well for 4 years. But the Yanks paid him just as well for those 4 years. He’s heading for a crash and I hope it’s not in pinstripes.

  17. S.o.S. January 11th, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    Not only are they PARTING WAYS but unless he learns how to switch hit. Cashman has no use for him. He already got a #2 hitter in the lineup and has mentioned he will be going for a right handed bat.

  18. S.o.S. January 11th, 2010 at 12:48 pm

    I think people are making to much out of “Johnny will be embarrassed” stuff.

    =============

    But he cant feed his kids with 5 million a year. If you dont believe that, ask Spreewell.

  19. blake January 11th, 2010 at 12:48 pm

    Hey Brian Cashman $$$$$,

    Just in case, what temperature do you like your crow to be prepared?

  20. LathamJoe January 11th, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    At this point in their respective careers, Hairston is a better investment than Damon. Damon is probably the worst, if not THE worst, LFer in the American League. His legs are shot also. He is nowhere near the worth that he and Boras are seeking. Sacrificing his offense for a better defender that hits from the right side (and comes at a cheaper price) is a wise choice. The Yankees should not miss his bat with the acquisition of Granderson. Replacing Matsui’s bat in the lineup is much more problematical

  21. Brian Cashman $$$$$$$ January 11th, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    The Yankees remain in the market for an outfielder, but not a starting outfielder. “I consider this position I’m playing in as a bench role,” Cashman said. “Right-handed hitting outfielder that Joe can look on the bench and say, I’m not going to start one of my left-handers, I’m going to start a right-hander.”

    • “I don’t need a left-handed bat for the outfield,” Cashman said. Feel free to interpret that quote however you’d like.

    I DON’T NEED A LEFT HANDED BAT FOR THE OUTFIELD. FEEL FREE TO INTERPRET THAT QUOTE HOWEVER YOU’D LIKE

  22. Bronx Jeers January 11th, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    Good point Jennifer but then again Johnny’s earned 100 mil in his career.

    Is his lifestyle going to have to change because he gets a 50% paycut?

    A person earns 50,000 and gets cut to 25,000$? That’s a major problem for that person.

    13 mil to 6 mil? Not so much of a problem as it is a pride-swallower.

  23. tex's friend January 11th, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    I like the idea of Hairston on our team. I’d even consider 2 years at 2.5 or 3 a year. he can be very valuble and he can hit.

  24. Brian Cashman $$$$$$$ January 11th, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    I DON’T NEED A LEFT HANDED BAT FOR THE OUTFIELD

  25. blake January 11th, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    Oh I forgot that everything Cashman says to the media comes to pass.

    “if Arod opts out, he’s done with the Yankees”
    “we aren’t in on Teixera”
    “we aren’t in on AJ”
    “Bubba Crobsy will be our CFer”
    Etc..etc.

    Doesn’t mean they will sign Damon, doesn’t mean they won’t either.

  26. DCStack January 11th, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    If he were to return to the Yanks I could see a contract similar in structure to what Pettitte received last year, but for a little less money than Andy. I relatively low number base ($4 to $5 million) with incentives that allow him to get the kind of number he thinks he could get ($8 to $9 million). That allows him to save some face while also giving him incentive to reach those numbers.

  27. Rich in NJ January 11th, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    “You don’t waste money by overpaying for Damon either.”

    Damon projects to be anywhere from a 1.7-3.0 WAR player. At 1.7, he’s probably worth $6.75m. At 3.0 he’s probably worth $13.5.

    Hairston probably projects to be a .2-.3 WAR player, depending on PT. Even at .3 he’s worth around $1.35m.

    So it would be much, much harder to overpay Damaon.

  28. ArtieA January 11th, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    I agree with Crawdaddy and Country club on this and some others who think that a two year deal somewhere is possible for Damon. I don’t think so. Maybe the Braves for one year.
    However, I’m also in the camp that doesn’t want to see Nick Johnson batting second..not necessary. If Bret the Jet has a good spring,, say 270 and above I’d put him in that slot.Let him “butcher boy” Derek over to third on a hit and run. I’d love to see it.

    Brian is in love to a fault with OBP..and I think still a good reason for the signing but not batting 2nd..doesn’t make sense to me. Speed wins especially at the top of the lineup. What a headache for teams having to face that type of speed and then facing Tex and AROD. WOW!

  29. Bronx Born January 11th, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    I personally will miss Damon. He brings a lot to the team and think he is great in the clubhouse, etc. I wish he had taken the offer the Yanks made, but he did not and I suppose time to move on. Simultaneously, a part of me would like him back on the team. Andy came back last year with an incentive filled offer and there were no problems. Why should there be any with Johnny?

  30. MTU January 11th, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    Blake-

    JD left himself open to being “Abreued”.

    I am not sure a Hairston + Johnson isn’t better than just JD alone ?

  31. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Back Johnny!!!! January 11th, 2010 at 12:58 pm

    Brian Cashman $$$$$$$
    January 11th, 2010 at 12:52 pm
    I DON’T NEED A LEFT HANDED BAT FOR THE OUTFIELD

    ************

    Bubba Crosby is my centerfielder :roll:

  32. Erin January 11th, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    blake
    January 11th, 2010 at 12:53 pm
    Oh I forgot that everything Cashman says to the media comes to pass.

    “if Arod opts out, he’s done with the Yankees”
    “we aren’t in on Teixera”
    “we aren’t in on AJ”
    “Bubba Crobsy will be our CFer”
    Etc..etc.

    ************************
    LOL

  33. blake January 11th, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    MTU,
    Ill admit that I haven’t seen Reed Johnson play that much but every stat or metric that I’ve looked at says he’s below average at just about everything. I personally don’t get all the Reed Johnson love. I’d rather have Johnnys bat.

  34. stanzy January 11th, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    I’d love to see Damon back, and I don’t think overpaying (a little) to assuage the pride issue is a terrible idea. E.g., 1 year, 8 mil, up to 10, with incentives, and maybe even a team option for a second year. If he had a year at all similar to 2009, I could see that being worth it (though, admittedly, I don’t really know how to value baseball contracts). He produces, he can be clutch, he’s good in the clubhouse/off the field, fans like him, he’s a veteran who knows how to play and still plays hard.

    Only problem is, how do you fit him in? Nick Johnson seems to be a good number 2. So do you bat Damon 9th? 5th? Somewhere else? And what about Gardner. I know a lot of people think he’s just a 4th outfielder. But the only way he has a chance to become anything more is to play. Maybe you give Damon 1/3-2/5 of the games in left, 1/3-2/5 at DH, more or less as the situation/his performance dictates? Anyway, I don’t think giving Damon a contract he can be comfortable with is necessarily the problem. It’s really a matter of whether he still has a place on the team. I hope the answer is yes, but won’t be surprised if it’s no.

  35. Bret the Hitman January 11th, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    I do not want Reed Johnson.

  36. RayVT January 11th, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    Well, Damon can still hit and he can still run better than 75% of the MLB starters. The problem is he has no position to play. I believe if he could convince some team he can play 1B & LF that he will ultimately sign somewhere.

  37. Rich in NJ January 11th, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    I’m not sure how a team option benefits Damon in any way.

  38. matt January 11th, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    The other issue is the lefty/righty batting issue. The time is getting heavy on lefties. Johnson and Gardner are lefty batters. Damon would be a better fit if he batted righthanded.

  39. upstate kate January 11th, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    Abreu took a big pay cut last year, but played well and got a much better contract this year…why wouldn’t Johnny do the same?

  40. Chip January 11th, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    With Huff signing in San Fran Johnny’s options are basically down to the Braves or Yankees – neither of which are going to offer him the 10 mil he wants.

    At this point Johnny would have to say to Cash that he will play on a 1 year $4 mil contract for Brian to even consider it, and I’m not sure there’s even any point.

    The Yankees have a very good #2 option in Nick Johnson and thinks that a platoon of Gardner and possibly Reed Johnson (or a signing of Ankiel) is going to give him a better defensive option than Johnny would in LF and might be at least as good as Melky in the 9 spot.

  41. RayVT January 11th, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    BTW, when Cashman said he didn’t need a left-handed leftfielder he didn’t sy he didn’t want one!!!

    Big Difference!

  42. tex's friend January 11th, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    Damon can hit lefties though. It wouldnt be awful to have 4 lefties in the lineup, even against lefties when Damon, NJ and Cano are all good against lefties. That just leaves Granderson..

  43. Eric January 11th, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    Reed Johnson mashes lefties and plays above average defense at all 3 outfield positions (including great defense at the corners). He’d be a great guy to platoon with Gardner if Damon doesn’t come back.

  44. Patrick from CT January 11th, 2010 at 1:10 pm

    If the reports are correct, the Yankees had offered JD a 2 year 14mil deal to come back. They place a value on him that is/was a DH and part time outfielder. He was plan A for the DH, but at the Yankees price.
    Sui was probably plan B for DH, but he signed in LA.
    Plan C was Nick Johnson for the DH and the Yankees moved on him when JDs price was too high.
    I don’t believe the Yankees view Johnnie as an every day outfielder anymore or there offer would have been higher originally.
    The Yankees have Brett Gardner to split time in LF and back up in CF. They now only need a RH bat off the bench that can play some LF or RF if need be. Johnnie no long fits the teams remaining need for bench players…

    I’m not sure who the Yankees will get to split time in LF but if I was Cash I’d be looking for a RH hitter that has pop so he could also fill in at DH if NJ get’s hurt. Markus Thames has DH’d as well as played LF over the last couple of years and should be high on the list. If Nady can prove he’s healthy, he’s probably #1 on the list. I don’t think a guy like Hairston would be the best to fill in a platoon roll but if they want a supersub rather than a power bat, OK…

  45. Chip January 11th, 2010 at 1:11 pm

    Eric –

    I have no objection to Reed Johnson. In fact I think he could wind up beating out Gardner for the everyday job if he’s given the chance to do so.

    I just think Damon overplayed his hand. I just no longer see a fit for him on this team.

  46. Bronx Jeers January 11th, 2010 at 1:11 pm

    Reed Johnson hits lefties. Very well.

    He’s a good defender.

    And he’s got that character/chemistry aspect to his game.

    His back is iffy though.

  47. Crawdaddy January 11th, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    “Damon projects to be anywhere from a 1.7-3.0 WAR player. At 1.7, he’s probably worth $6.75m. At 3.0 he’s probably worth $13.5.

    Hairston probably projects to be a .2-.3 WAR player, depending on PT. Even at .3 he’s worth around $1.35m.

    So it would be much, much harder to overpay Damaon.”

    Rich,

    Let’s be real here. The Yankees will pay Damon current market value not some WAR calculation. Furthermore, despite what Cashman might say publicly, signing Hairston, if by the way that rumor is true, won’t prevent Cashman from giving Damon a current market value contract.

  48. stanzy January 11th, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    Rich in NJ — Doesn’t it guarantee him some extra money for that year? I’m no expert on these things. I was just throwing it out as an example of how the Yankees could try to be a little creative with the contract so the cut wouldn’t seem so dramatic. I don’t know all the different levers they could pull in crafting a contract. But I’m sure they could agree on something that Damon could swallow and the organization could live with. My point is that it’s not so much that they can’t afford something he’d accept, but that, for whatever that money is, they just may not have a place for him that makes it worth anything at all.

  49. Rich in NJ January 11th, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    If Gardner is going to be the LF, let him play every day until he proves that he can’t.

  50. Crawdaddy January 11th, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    “Ill admit that I haven’t seen Reed Johnson play that much but every stat or metric that I’ve looked at says he’s below average at just about everything. I personally don’t get all the Reed Johnson love. I’d rather have Johnnys bat.”

    Which metrics are you looking at?

  51. GreenBeret7 January 11th, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    I’m sorry, but Reed Johnson couldn’t mash potatoes.

  52. Sam Borden January 11th, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    Good points by many of you. To those who asked about which team would give him a two-year deal, I’d say this: Did anyone see the Reds giving Aroldis Chapman a five-year deal for $30 million? Me either. What you (or I) see as logical isn’t always the way every team sees it.

    I still think Damon ends up elsewhere. But even with Cashman seemingly moving on, I don’t think you can entirely rule out the possibility of a reunion. As I wrote in the original post: I think it’s very unlikely, but not impossible.

  53. Chip January 11th, 2010 at 1:17 pm

    Patrick -

    I think that the RH bat spot will be determined by who is the starting LF. If Gardner’s the starting LF I think they go with Reed Johnson who is better defensively at all three spots. If, however the Yankees go with Ankiel they should bring in a guy like Tatis who is a bit of a better bat and can back up at all four corners and then use Gardner/Hoffmann as the defensive replacement in the OF.

    I know it doesn’t make much sense on its face – that if you have a weaker lineup you go with a weaker bat off the bench than if you have the better lineup, but the logic is that if you’re subbing out Gardner you are going to lose defense whereas if you have him on the bench you’ve got your defensive replacement there.

  54. T15D23 January 11th, 2010 at 1:17 pm

    Damon was paid $13M per year to play Centerfield and bat lead off. He has not played almost any games at CF for the last 3 years of his contract. His skills have diminished in the field, so that being half of his game, how can he expect to maintain anywhere close to $13M per year? Furthermore, on this team he was moved to the #2 slot, again, this was not why he was originally signed.

    He showed power in the new Yankee homerun field, but who hasn’t?

    His calves are a concern matched with his age.

    Lets not forget, that Bernie was shown the door at the age of 37, how is it possible that Damon can believe he command anything north of $5M per year?

    He was never the player here he was in Boston. We overpaid for his services and now it is time to say goodbye.

  55. Crawdaddy January 11th, 2010 at 1:17 pm

    “If Gardner is going to be the LF, let him play every day until he proves that he can’t.”

    Which is why you sign an experience outfielder like Reed Johnson just in case Gardner can’t play everyday so that you can at least platoon Johnson with Gardner in LF.

  56. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day January 11th, 2010 at 1:17 pm

    Overpaying is a bad idea and there’s no reason for the Yankees to do it. They’ve now set a precedent recently of setting a value on players and not moving off that; there is no reason why they should change that now just for Damon.

  57. Chip January 11th, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    Plus, if Gardner’s your starting LF you want a guy who could play on an everyday basis if Gardner flops rather than a guy like Tatis who is best served in a utility role.

  58. Crawdaddy January 11th, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    “I’m sorry, but Reed Johnson couldn’t mash potatoes.”

    He mashes potatoes just fine against Lefty pitching.

  59. Rich in NJ January 11th, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    craw

    “Let’s be real here. The Yankees will pay Damon current market value not some WAR calculation. Furthermore, despite what Cashman might say publicly, signing Hairston, if by the way that rumor is true, won’t prevent Cashman from giving Damon a current market value contract.”

    My point isn’t that the Yankees should pay Damon based on his WAR, it’s that if you use WAR as an indication of valuation, it offers a guideline on what is likely to be an overpay and what isn’t.

    You may be right about the impact of Hairston/Damon, but otoh, if they truly want to keep the payroll lower than it was last season, $2-$3m for Hairston limits their ability to pay Damon to some extent.

  60. The Other Phil (Don't Feed the Trolls!) January 11th, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    # Rich in NJ January 11th, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    If Gardner is going to be the LF, let him play every day until he proves that he can’t.
    ————————–

    Agreed! He showed improvement from first year to second and he’s on the big club for a reason. Let him play and see what happens.

    I’ll keep saying it until I’m hoarse: if Gardner in LF and batting 9th is a season-changer for the Yankees, then they have bigger problems than Gardner in LF. He’ll play plus defense and get on base at a decent clip for the top of the order to play with. Save the cash for a good bench guy. Damon is DONE.

  61. Chip January 11th, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    Just sign Ankiel or Winn or Church and put the Gardner question to rest.

  62. Crawdaddy January 11th, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    “Good points by many of you. To those who asked about which team would give him a two-year deal, I’d say this: Did anyone see the Reds giving Aroldis Chapman a five-year deal for $30 million? Me either. What you (or I) see as logical isn’t always the way every team sees it.”

    Sam,

    You should know better than to compare Damon’s situation to what happened with Chapman. If anybody is going to give Damon a two year contract then why hasn’t it happen yet?

  63. ANSKY January 11th, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    Well if most of us were to take a 50% pay cut (like Johnny D might have to consider) it’d be hard to make ends meet or in some cases impossible to even keep a roof over head.

    But at Johnny D’s income level, half what he made last year could still be 100x what some of us make. The interpretation of one’s market value is one way to look at it, of course. But the matter of keeping a roof over poor Johnny’s head is never in question either way.

  64. Rich in NJ January 11th, 2010 at 1:21 pm

    “Rich in NJ — Doesn’t it guarantee him some extra money for that year? I’m no expert on these things. I was just throwing it out as an example of how the Yankees could try to be a little creative with the contract so the cut wouldn’t seem so dramatic. I don’t know all the different levers they could pull in crafting a contract. But I’m sure they could agree on something that Damon could swallow and the organization could live with. My point is that it’s not so much that they can’t afford something he’d accept, but that, for whatever that money is, they just may not have a place for him that makes it worth anything at all.”

    Oh, I think you mean a team option with a buyout.

    That would depend on the amount of the buyout.

    They don’t have much payroll flexibility for 2011 as it is. I don’t want to see them limit that in any way.

  65. blake January 11th, 2010 at 1:21 pm

    Crawdaddy,
    Sabermetrics…;). In all honesty I haven’t seen Johnson play enough to form a real opinion on him. I just noticed that he hasn’t played over 110 games since 2006. I don’t know of that’s because of injury or because he was platooned. I know his back has been an issue in the past and I know that he can’t hit like Damon can.

  66. Chip January 11th, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    if Gardner in LF and batting 9th is a season-changer for the Yankees, then they have bigger problems than Gardner in LF.

    I agree with that, but with the sheer volume of outfielders available why not look at ways to upgrade what is obviously the weak spot in the order? That way if other things do go wrong (an injury to Johnson or Posada) you don’t have to worry about Brett Gardner being asked to do more than he’s capable of.

  67. Rich in NJ January 11th, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    “Which is why you sign an experience outfielder like Reed Johnson just in case Gardner can’t play everyday so that you can at least platoon Johnson with Gardner in LF.”

    My concern would be that Johnson would become his regular platoon partner in LF after Gardner went 1-15 v. LHP.

  68. Crawdaddy January 11th, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    “My point isn’t that the Yankees should pay Damon based on his WAR, it’s that if you use WAR as an indication of valuation, it offers a guideline on what is likely to be an overpay and what isn’t.

    You may be right about the impact of Hairston/Damon, but otoh, if they truly want to keep the payroll lower than it was last season, $2-$3m for Hairston limits their ability to pay Damon to some extent.”

    Rich,

    The guideline was already established when Cash reportedly offered Damon 2 for 14M. Since then, the price has dropped even further and he’ll be lucky to get a one year deal for 6M.

  69. Bret the Hitman January 11th, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    Ballpark dimensions link:

    http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/fantasy.....keffects09

    When Damon does sign somewhere, he’ll likely play in a park with a short LF. I’m not sure if that’s the Yankees since LF in Yankees Stadium is vast despite the short pole in far LF.

  70. Crawdaddy January 11th, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    “My concern would be that Johnson would become his regular platoon partner in LF after Gardner went 1-15 v. LHP.”

    My concern is having your only backup outfielder being a Rule 5 guy, who you’re not really sure is a ML player.

  71. GreenBeret7 January 11th, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    Just what NYYs don’t need is having to worry about whether it’s R. Johnson or N. Johnson that hits the DL first and longest. Taking a health risk on one is bad enough. Taking that risk on two is ridiculous.

  72. Chip January 11th, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    My concern is having your only backup outfielder being a Rule 5 guy, who you’re not really sure is a ML player.

    My concern is having your starting LF be a 27 year old who is a light hitting version of Juan Pierre.

  73. ANSKY January 11th, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    I wouldn’t mind seeing Johnny come back for another year or two. He’s a good player who gives 100% and seems like a great fit in the club house. He gets a few injuries here and there, sure. He brings a better than average bat every day, and he’s been clutch, but unfortunately throws the ball like it’s a wet chicken. He is an asset, but you also need someone else available if he gets hurt or as a late-game defensive (arm) replacement.

  74. Crawdaddy January 11th, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    “My concern is having your starting LF be a 27 year old who is a light hitting version of Juan Pierre.”

    Which means what exactly since Pierre is a light hitting outfielder?

  75. Crawdaddy January 11th, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    “Just what NYYs don’t need is having to worry about whether it’s R. Johnson or N. Johnson that hits the DL first and longest. Taking a health risk on one is bad enough. Taking that risk on two is ridiculous.”

    Then who do you want?

  76. stanzy January 11th, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    Yeah, realized that after I hit submit on the last one. I meant with a buyout. But yeah, I see your point.

    Rationally, I don’t think Johnny really fits/makes sense anymore. But as a fan who has appreciated his contributions and the way he plays, I like to think that maybe there’s some way to make it work. Losing any part (even Melky) of a 103-win, World Series championship team is tough. Losing 2 big parts of that team, and 2 players that I’ve really enjoyed watching (plus Melky) is even tougher.

  77. blake January 11th, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    By “mashing” do you guys mean hitting a duck snort over the second basemans head or roping a 27 hopper between SS and 3B.

  78. pat January 11th, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    “As much as anything, that says a lot about the financial situation in baseball”

    I’m don’t believe this is all bottom line motivated. Selig says attendance was down only a few percent and the TV deals likely haven’t gotten smaller.

    St. Louis found $100+ M for Holliday and Cincinnati seems to have found $30 M for an unproven pitcher.

    IMO, the younger, more athletic, cheaper mindset has taken over combined with what teams want to afford and not neccessarily what teams can afford.

  79. petea January 11th, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    won’t happen — even at right price — no longer fits plan — NJ in the way now — internally, JD thought to be much more DH than LF’r. Hairston signing will be hedge against remaining right hitting FA OF’rs — but might add one them too if price is right. 4-5 mil left — but might expand slightly if Mitre or Gaudin can be traded. Rule 5′r not considered a serious option — everyone reading too much into him — most likely won’t make team then offered back.

  80. Bronx Jeers January 11th, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    The only job available for Damon to fill at 6-7$ mil is full-time LFer.

    I don’t think the Yanks see him as that anymore.

    He was supposed to be the DH/4th OFer.

    DH is filled. 4th OF may be filled or may be about to be filled but one thing for certain is that it won’t be filled by Johnny Damon earning 6 million.

  81. Good bye Johnny ! January 11th, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    If Damon feels that he’s returning by default. it could have negative consequences for the Yankees. Let him go!

  82. ANSKY January 11th, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    A batting order with Damon in it would be fun to watch.

    Jeter
    Damon
    A-Rod
    Teixiera
    Posada
    Granderson
    N Johnson
    Swisher
    Cano

    You could mix the bottom 5 whichever way you want, but that could very well be the best bottom half of the order you’ll find anywhere in baseball, as far as just the offense goes.

    The top 4 ain’t too bad either.

  83. Yankee Trader January 11th, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    Questions?

    Are we better offensively having Damon with his speed hitting #2 than Nick Johnson?

    If Damon were to come back would this lineup against righty pitchers produce more runs? Coulf sub for Damon in later innings

    Jeter SS
    Damon LF
    Granderson CF
    A-Rod 3B
    Tex 1B
    Posada C
    Cano 2B-hits best in 7th spot
    Swisher RF
    Johnson DH

    Those four at the top would offer speed and power with A-Rod now protected by Tex?

    Any thoughts pro or con if Damon , makes us a better team, taking into account his noodle for an arm?

  84. 57' Yank January 11th, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    Don’t fret fans, someone will be in left !
    Could be Brett and Hoffman. Hairston good for utility, if Pena or Russo don’t havea good spring.

  85. GreenBeret7 January 11th, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    Crawdaddy
    January 11th, 2010 at 1:28 pm
    “Just what NYYs don’t need is having to worry about whether it’s R. Johnson or N. Johnson that hits the DL first and longest. Taking a health risk on one is bad enough. Taking that risk on two is ridiculous.”

    Then who do you want?

    ————————————————————

    It surely wouldn’t be having Johnson & Johnson having a throw-down to see who leads the league in band-aids. I’ve already stated that if NYY insists on using Gardner and a platoon, I’d go with an acquisition of Bloomquist who plays better defense at more positions and with more speed than Hairston.

  86. ANSKY January 11th, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    Good bye Johnny – I think if it was Manny Ramirez you’d have avalid concern there, but I’d think Johnny D would come out and play w/o letting any hard feelings get in the way.

    He may have them, but I doubt they’d get in the way of his performance.

  87. champ809 January 11th, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    I think one of the reasons that JD was so $ hungry this offseason is he may have really taken a big hit in that Stanford Investments ponzi scheme….he may actually still have a large sum of assets tied up in frozen accounts and may really need all that he can scratch out…

    having said that I’m glad that we’ve moved on from him…his skills are seriously eroding,he doesn’t run anymore and we’re a much better team I think getting younger where we can

  88. Chip January 11th, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    “Which means what exactly since Pierre is a light hitting outfielder?”

    Craw – it means I’m not sure Brett Gardner can hit major league pitching over the course of a full season.

    I would much rather have any of the following players in LF:
    Damon – Though there’s no chance he’s back
    Garret Anderson
    Randy Winn
    Rick Ankiel
    Ryan Church
    Jermaine Dye

    and then use Gardner the way he is best utilized – as a pinch runner/defensive replacement. It makes the starting lineup better and makes the bench better than having Gardner in the lineup and Reed Johnson on the bench.

  89. Rich in NJ January 11th, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    “The guideline was already established when Cash reportedly offered Damon 2 for 14M. Since then, the price has dropped even further and he’ll be lucky to get a one year deal for 6M.”

    But we don’t know what their true budget is. If Boras/Damon called and said, one year for $7.5m and I will be happy, I don’t want Cash’s ability to say yes limited by Hairston.

    “My concern is having your only backup outfielder being a Rule 5 guy, who you’re not really sure is a ML player.”

    I think that you can always find a fungible OF backup, if necessary.

    OTOH, maybe they need Damon more than Cash is letting on?

  90. Bret the Hitman January 11th, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    petea
    January 11th, 2010 at 1:30 pm
    won’t happen — even at right price — no longer fits plan — NJ in the way now — internally, JD thought to be much more DH than LF’r. Hairston signing will be hedge against remaining right hitting FA OF’rs — but might add one them too if price is right. 4-5 mil left — but might expand slightly if Mitre or Gaudin can be traded. Rule 5?r not considered a serious option — everyone reading too much into him — most likely won’t make team then offered back.

    typed from Blackberry

  91. Sam Borden January 11th, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    Craw: I wasn’t comparing them, just using it as the latest example that oftentimes a team comes out of nowhere with a plan that no one saw coming.

    I wouldn’t give Damon two years (just like I wouldn’t have given Chapman five) but that doesn’t mean someone won’t give him two (just like the Reds gave Chapman five). There are plenty of MLB teams who do weird and unexpected things with their money.

  92. Crawdaddy January 11th, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    “It surely wouldn’t be having Johnson & Johnson having a throw-down to see who leads the league in band-aids. I’ve already stated that if NYY insists on using Gardner and a platoon, I’d go with an acquisition of Bloomquist who plays better defense at more positions and with more speed than Hairston.”

    I don’t think Hairston’s going to be the platoon option for LF. If he was then I wouldn’t want him nor Bloomquist, who can’t hit his way out of a wet paper bag.

  93. Pat M. January 11th, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    I know that The Angels liked Chapman ( 23 million ) was their last offer from what I was told……The concern with many clubs was thet Chapman may end up as a reliever…….Thunder bolt arm though, with real poor mechanics…..Flies open every third pitch…..

  94. CR9 January 11th, 2010 at 1:42 pm

    I think it’s pretty obvious that Vazquez is a team player, hence Cash trading for him again.

    I think it pretty obvious that Swish is a team player based on last year.

    I also think it’s safe to assume that AJ Burnett (while a head case) is a team player based on his attitude all last season. Why else would Roy Halladay be such good friends with him if he had such a bad attitude?

    Roy Halladay is a class act and, while I do not know for sure, probably associates with high character guys.

  95. Crawdaddy January 11th, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    “I would much rather have any of the following players in LF:
    Damon – Though there’s no chance he’s back
    Garret Anderson
    Randy Winn
    Rick Ankiel
    Ryan Church
    Jermaine Dye”

    I don’t have a problem with Damon coming back as long as Cashman gets him at his contract terms.

    However, guys like Anderson and Dye would be awful in LF at Yankee Stadium and would actually make Damon look good out there.

  96. Don Capone January 11th, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    I’ve thought all along that Damon will come back. Yes, at a pay cut. Maybe they can work a deal with incentives, ala Pettitte’s 2009 contract. His base salary was low, but he made the incentives and everyone was happy.

  97. Ham Fighters January 11th, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    even if you get past the ‘paycut’ issue, damon would then have to deal with the playing time issue. johnson, gardner, damon sharing 2 spots with all the 30-somethings needing to take some of those dh ab’s. i just dont see it.

  98. Rich in NJ January 11th, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    Even if Chapman does become a reliever, if the going rate for good closers is $8-10m per for 3 years, the contract isn’t terrible.

  99. blake January 11th, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    Sam, that’s a good point you make. who knows, the Mets may decide they need another LFer and sign Damon.

  100. LathamJoe January 11th, 2010 at 1:45 pm

    The Yankees faced how many lefty starters last year? 50-55?
    The right hand hitting LF platoon outfielder will likely start 50 games..less than 1/3 of their schedule.

    Adding Hairston makes sense because of his versatility. True, he’s not a “masher” nor does he excel at any position. But he can adequately play 2nd, ss, 3rd and all OF positions, plus pinch run. The key is that he rarely will hurt the team when he starts – offensively or defensively – an important “spare part” for any pennant contender. Damon’s bat for the 2010, in my opinion, is overkill and his defense is not worth the tradeoff.

  101. Crawdaddy January 11th, 2010 at 1:45 pm

    “But we don’t know what their true budget is. If Boras/Damon called and said, one year for $7.5m and I will be happy, I don’t want Cash’s ability to say yes limited by Hairston.”

    Rick,

    IMO, there is no way Cashman gives Damon 7.5m base salary.

    Now, if you want to talk about an incentive deal that brings it up to 7.5M then that’s a different story.

  102. Crawdaddy January 11th, 2010 at 1:45 pm

    Sorry Rich, I typed Rick by accident!

  103. Chip January 11th, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    However, guys like Anderson and Dye would be awful in LF at Yankee Stadium and would actually make Damon look good out there.

    Well Dye (or Church) would have to play RF with Swisher in LF – not a great defensive option but that’s why you have Gardner on the bench.

    I don’t think Anderson would be that awful – certainly he wouldn’t be great – but he might prove servicable and we’re talking about a guy who (offensively) has owned the AL East his entire career.

  104. G. Love January 11th, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    Boras usually gets his stars their money. Somehow, somewhere, he’ll get Damon a 2 year deal that will be close to 20 million.

    It won’t be from here.

    I’m telling you, Damon coming back here for a huge paycut shouldn’t happen. He’s an emotional player who still believes he’s a big star in this league.

    I think Cashman knows this and just won’t pursue it even if Johnny calls the Yankees and tells them he’ll play for 6 million for one season.

  105. Crawdaddy January 11th, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    “I wouldn’t give Damon two years (just like I wouldn’t have given Chapman five) but that doesn’t mean someone won’t give him two (just like the Reds gave Chapman five). There are plenty of MLB teams who do weird and unexpected things with their money.”

    You’re right, but Damon is still going to be 37 years old this year and his noodle arm is what it is.

  106. GreenBeret7 January 11th, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    ANSKY
    January 11th, 2010 at 1:32 pm
    A batting order with Damon in it would be fun to watch.

    Jeter
    Damon
    A-Rod
    Teixiera
    Posada
    Granderson
    N Johnson
    Swisher
    Cano

    ————————————————————

    Using those players, I’d go with:

    Jeter
    Damon
    Johnson
    A-Rod
    Teixiera
    Cano
    Posada
    Granderson
    Swisher

    It puts speed and with guys that get on base at the top and power throughout the rest of the line-up. You also have guys behind Rodriguez and Granderson that take pitches to allow them to run. After the first swing through the order, it doesn’t really matter that Teixeira’s batting 5th. Chances are pretty good that he’d be hitting in the first inning more than not.

  107. Crawdaddy January 11th, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    “Well Dye (or Church) would have to play RF with Swisher in LF – not a great defensive option but that’s why you have Gardner on the bench.

    I don’t think Anderson would be that awful – certainly he wouldn’t be great – but he might prove servicable and we’re talking about a guy who (offensively) has owned the AL East his entire career.”

    Then we just have to agree to disagree because I don’t think Swisher is a good option in LF either.

  108. blake January 11th, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    Noodle arm is too kind a term for Damons pea shooter. I still would like him back.

  109. Crawdaddy January 11th, 2010 at 1:50 pm

    While Anderson and Dye would be awful in RF too.

    By the way, I thought Church is being signed by the Pirates?

  110. Bret the Hitman January 11th, 2010 at 1:50 pm

    You can’t be choosey and demanding at age 37 in MLB.

  111. Ham Fighters January 11th, 2010 at 1:50 pm

    therre is no room in the mets OF of bay/beltran/francour for damon and no DH. he’s worth even less to the mets than to the yankees. also, the mets 1-2 of reyes/castillo is strong and even though they’d like to get out of castillo’s contract, there are no takers.

    you can definitly count the mets out on johnny

  112. Gil L January 11th, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    damon’s ego and taking a pay-cut

    the question was asked, who among us would have taken a 50% pay-cut lightly? however, that’s a bad analogy.
    most people only improve with time and experience at their jobs and become more valuable to their business.

    athletes don’t.

    a 32 years old damon got an incredibly fair deal from the yanks, which reflected his future production.
    the nature of the beast is that you can’t score a similar deal 4 years later.

    having said that, abreu took a huge pay-cut, played his ass off, and was rewarded with 19mil for 2 years. JD should apply the same strategy.

  113. braeden January 11th, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    Damon has to be concerned about there being a market for him at his perceived price range. Yankees seemed to have moved in another direction. Cashman read the market right, Damon still has no team, but more importantly, Cashman read Boras right!

    Cashman out maneuvered Boras this offseason for sure.

    I’m GLAD THE REDS, decided to use their Revenue Sharing/Lux Tax subsidy on actual on an player acquisition, what a novel idea (sarcasm intended.)

  114. blake January 11th, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    Ham, that was a joke about the Mets. I was speaking to the ineptitude of their GM.

  115. Rich in NJ January 11th, 2010 at 1:53 pm

    craw

    “IMO, there is no way Cashman gives Damon 7.5m base salary.
    Now, if you want to talk about an incentive deal that brings it up to 7.5M then that’s a different story.”

    I have no idea, but my point is that I would rather give Damon $7.5 than Hairston anything.

  116. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Back Johnny!!!! January 11th, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    For the record-

    I am abstaining from this coversation cause I think everyone knows exactly where I stand on Johnny Damon.

    The redundancy would be pointless

  117. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Back Johnny!!!! January 11th, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    GB7 & Ansky-

    Those are line ups that score a crapload of runs

  118. Crawdaddy January 11th, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    I think the Braves if they haven’t already done so will make an offer to Damon. Whether it’s good enough to get him to bite is another question. If they give him a two year contract then good luck to Johnny and the Braves for that matter.

  119. GreenBeret7 January 11th, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    Crawdaddy
    January 11th, 2010 at 1:40 pm
    “It surely wouldn’t be having Johnson & Johnson having a throw-down to see who leads the league in band-aids. I’ve already stated that if NYY insists on using Gardner and a platoon, I’d go with an acquisition of Bloomquist who plays better defense at more positions and with more speed than Hairston.”

    I don’t think Hairston’s going to be the platoon option for LF. If he was then I wouldn’t want him nor Bloomquist, who can’t hit his way out of a wet paper bag.

    ————————————————————

    Bloomquist is a .270+ hitter over the last three years. Speed, defense at 6 positions. The only defensive spot that Hairston’s at least average at is 2nd base. He’s a better platoon/utility option than Hairston and Johnson (when he’s not in the hospital plays only the outfield. They all get on base about the same amount.

  120. pat January 11th, 2010 at 1:56 pm

    Chapman got 6 years, $30.25M per Feinsand. I thought it was 5 years?

  121. Crawdaddy January 11th, 2010 at 1:56 pm

    “I have no idea, but my point is that I would rather give Damon $7.5 than Hairston anything.”

    My point is that Cashman will feel one has nothing to do with the other. He will not go over whatever value he placed on Damon.

  122. Yankee Trader January 11th, 2010 at 1:56 pm

    I doubt the Braves will be in on Damon because they already have McLouth, Cabrera, Diaz, Hinske and Infante, plus they want to give Jason Heyward a look in RF, and are looking to hold expenses to 2009 levels.

    Rangers with Vlad and Giants with Huff would not have a fit, IMO
    Every team in the AL has a DH, except maybe the Royals.

    He’s going to get a one year Abreu offer if he’s lucky, with maybe a club option. The question will be if he wants to possibly finish his career on a non-contender.

  123. Crawdaddy January 11th, 2010 at 1:58 pm

    “Bloomquist is a .270+ hitter over the last three years. Speed, defense at 6 positions. The only defensive spot that Hairston’s at least average at is 2nd base. He’s a better platoon/utility option than Hairston and Johnson (when he’s not in the hospital plays only the outfield. They all get on base about the same amount.”

    Sorry, but as an outfielder platoon option, he’s nowhere near Reed Johnson’s 313/378/463 against lefty pitching.

  124. blake January 11th, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    All things being equal johnny would be smart to return to a lineup where he can win and a stadium where he can hit 20-25 hrs.

  125. Yazman January 11th, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    I’m a big Damon fan, but I want to give Gardner a chance in LF. Our offense can take that small risk.

  126. Go Johnny ! January 11th, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    Ansky

    He’s human first and has a huge ego, it has to affect him taking less.

    I’ll agree to disagree with you. Abreu was very motivated when playing the Yankees, wonder why?

  127. GreenBeret7 January 11th, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    Erica – always OPPC – Bring Back Johnny!!!!
    January 11th, 2010 at 1:55 pm
    GB7 & Ansky-

    Those are line ups that score a crapload of runs

    ————————————————————

    The only reason that I’d move Teixeira to the 5th spot is he’s provide Rodriguez with the best protection. With those first 4 guys on base, they’d be foolish to attempt to pitch around him. It would make for a lot of bases loaded walks. teixeira doesn’t seem to be as jumpy at the plate as Rodriguez when the team isn’t scoring a lot.

  128. timo January 11th, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    Based on petea’s report I’m thinking the best we’re looking at is Hairston plus Winn/Johnson/Nady. Anyone else either can’t play LF in YS or bats lefty, which isn’t happening.

    2009 OPS+

    Damon 126
    Melky 99
    Johnson 89
    Gardner (2 yr) 80
    Winn 75
    Nady DNP

    Should be JD. I combine Gardner’s number because he wasn’t showing progress. OPS was well under .600 from June 27 to end of postseason and that includes a full month before he broke the finger.

  129. Yazman January 11th, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    Risking Joba or Phil’s development as a starting pitcher by bringing in Vasquez is worth it – SP is so critical.

    But we don’t have to have THAT much certainty in our #9 hitter. Replacing Melky’s bat with GGBG’s isn’t much of a risk.

  130. Yankee Trader January 11th, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    After reading the posts I’ll ask the question again.

    Are the Yankees a better team offensively with Damon rather than N. Johnson in the 2 spot.

    Could Tex be in the 5 spot protecting A-Rod, and have either Johnson or Granderson[against righties] hitting in the 3 spot?

  131. GreenBeret7 January 11th, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    Crawdaddy
    January 11th, 2010 at 1:58 pm
    “Bloomquist is a .270+ hitter over the last three years. Speed, defense at 6 positions. The only defensive spot that Hairston’s at least average at is 2nd base. He’s a better platoon/utility option than Hairston and Johnson (when he’s not in the hospital plays only the outfield. They all get on base about the same amount.”

    Sorry, but as an outfielder platoon option, he’s nowhere near Reed Johnson’s 313/378/463 against lefty pitching.

    ————————————————————

    Bloomquist also gives a lot of infield protection in case of a catostrophic injury. Much better than Hairston.

  132. Ham Fighters January 11th, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    it would be nice for the k.c. fans if they could get johnny to come back there to finish his career. he was a real crowd favorite there (and everywhere else he’s been) and there is so little to root for for the fans of that once-great franchise. however, even at a very discouted price he would cost too much for them.

    so sad what has happed in k.c. since the glory days.

  133. blake January 11th, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    As I’ve said before another advantage to bringing Damon back is that he can hit enough to step into the DH role if the inevitable happens and NJ gets a hangnail and is out for 6 weeks. With a Gardner/reed johnson platoon who is gonna DH of Johnson gets hurt? With Damon in the team he can step into that role and you still have Gardner to play LF

  134. GreenBeret7 January 11th, 2010 at 2:06 pm

    Yankee Trader
    January 11th, 2010 at 2:03 pm
    After reading the posts I’ll ask the question again.

    Are the Yankees a better team offensively with Damon rather than N. Johnson in the 2 spot.

    Could Tex be in the 5 spot protecting A-Rod, and have either Johnson or Granderson[against righties] hitting in the 3 spot?

    ————————————————————

    I’ll admit that having Johnson is ahuge injury risk, but, nobody ever thought that Paul O’Neill could hit 3rd, either.

  135. vey January 11th, 2010 at 2:06 pm

    pat
    Go to http://www.mlbcontracts.blogspot.com

  136. Frank January 11th, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    “Boras usually gets his stars their money. Somehow, somewhere, he’ll get Damon a 2 year deal that will be close to 20 million.”

    Think he can get his 2, but I’d guess he maxes out at $15-$16M. Tigers could be a candidate. A DH/OF?

  137. Go Johnny ! January 11th, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    Yankee Trader

    Cashman has answered that already. The team can’t evolve around Damon or Any one person.

  138. Ham Fighters January 11th, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    i know money means nothing to yankees fans who want a player but do u really think the yankees are going to give damon $7.5M to dh when they’re already paying johnson $5.75M? bear in mind that they intend to use the dh spot for resting veterans too.

    they are not going to invest $13.25M in this market to cover 120 games at DH.

  139. NYY626 January 11th, 2010 at 2:12 pm

    Erica – always OPPC – Bring Back Johnny!!!!
    January 11th, 2010 at 1:54 pm
    For the record-

    I am abstaining from this coversation cause I think everyone knows exactly where I stand on Johnny Damon.

    The redundancy would be pointless
    ____________________________________________________________
    Yes but your redundancy is oddly comforting and makes me laugh…so I say keep talking :)

  140. NYY626 January 11th, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    hypothetically, if Damon retired today and got into the Hall of Fame, which cap do you think he’d wear?

  141. Ham Fighters January 11th, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    nyy626 id say if he got into the hof today he’d be wearing a wool cap or one of those rabbit-fur lined jobbies with the earflaps.

  142. braeden January 11th, 2010 at 2:17 pm

    Boras might get Damon the money he wants, but it won’t be from Cashman, he slayed the Dragon!

  143. NYY626 January 11th, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    Ham Fighters
    January 11th, 2010 at 2:14 pm
    nyy626 id say if he got into the hof today he’d be wearing a wool cap or one of those rabbit-fur lined jobbies with the earflaps.
    ____________________________________________________________
    Haha…uh thanks for your input

  144. pat January 11th, 2010 at 2:21 pm

    Vey

    Thanks. I kept hearing 5/$30 but that explains the difference in yrs and $$.

  145. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Back Johnny!!!! January 11th, 2010 at 2:24 pm

    NYY626
    January 11th, 2010 at 2:12 pm
    Erica – always OPPC – Bring Back Johnny!!!!
    January 11th, 2010 at 1:54 pm
    For the record-

    I am abstaining from this coversation cause I think everyone knows exactly where I stand on Johnny Damon.

    The redundancy would be pointless
    ____________________________________________________________
    Yes but your redundancy is oddly comforting and makes me laugh…so I say keep talking

    ***********

    I do like being comforting to others… :grin:

    All I will say is this- I bought the MLB World Series DVD and watched it over the weekend. I the more of the series I watched the more I think Matsui got lucky in Game 6 and robbed MPB Johnny Damon of the MVP

  146. Erin January 11th, 2010 at 2:26 pm

    Ham Fighters
    January 11th, 2010 at 2:14 pm
    nyy626 id say if he got into the hof today he’d be wearing a wool cap or one of those rabbit-fur lined jobbies with the earflaps.

    *********************
    LMAO. The sip of water I just took is now all over my desk, so thanks for that. ;)

    In all seriousness, I’d like to think he’d go in as a NYY, but I’m biased

  147. Frank January 11th, 2010 at 2:28 pm

    “hypothetically, if Damon retired today and got into the Hall of Fame, which cap do you think he’d wear?”

    Wow! Tough call. Wouldn’t want to live on the difference between his 4 Boston seasons and 4 Yankees seasons. .295, .803 OPS, .362 OBP, 115 runs, 55 ExBH and 75 RBI per season in Boston.
    .285, .821 OPS, .363 OBP, 102 runs, 54 ExBH, 74 RBI per season in the Bronx. 1 World Series with each team.

    Maybe he splits the difference and where’s a Royals cap.

    Of course, he never gets to the HOF without a ticket anyway.

  148. tex's friend January 11th, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    well nick green is no longer an option. damn you Dodgers!!!

  149. blake January 11th, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    Right now Damon is wearing a B on his hat, but it stands for Boras not Boston.

    If he wants any chance at the HOF then he needs to re-sign with the Yankees. They give him the best chance to win and the best chance to produce offensively.

  150. Frank January 11th, 2010 at 2:30 pm

    *wears

  151. tex's friend January 11th, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    I’ll admit that having Johnson is ahuge injury risk, but, nobody ever thought that Paul O’Neill could hit 3rd, either.

    ___

    So was Matsui and the yankees managed him at dh very well this year and kept him reasonably healthy. the same would be expected for NJ.

  152. biz January 11th, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    id take johnny back for 1 year any day. he stole 2 bases in one game and he knows how to battle in big ABs.

    id also be happy with hairston jr. coming back. hes a great utility guy. he made some nice defensive plays last year and seemed to make a lot of productive outs. he also seemed to really enjoy his time here last year.

    since its being discussed that signing Hairston jr. closes the door on Damon, how about signing Hairston and Nady? assuming of course Nady is relatively healthy. both are cheap. Nady is a bit more of a risk with his health, but hes a solid RH bat. Hairston you know what your getting and hes good insurance for Nady as well as other positions.

  153. S.o.S. January 11th, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    “hypothetically, if Damon retired today and got into the Hall of Fame, which cap do you think he’d wear?”

    =========

    Right now its impossible to think of hypotheticals. Damon cant afford to go to the Hall till he gets paid. Havnt you heard? He’s broke.

    Damon a H.O.F.er?

  154. Boston Dave - XXVII January 11th, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    It boggles my mind that people are so down on Damon.

    He just came off a 4 year deal, pretty much injury free, and he hit phenominally. He provided an outstanding leadoff hitter to a team loaded with power bats. He was generally a tough out, often fouling off pitches and making pitchers work.

    He played average D this past season and I believe slightly above average D over his contract.

    Yet people are talking like 2/$12M would be a horrendous move.

    Just baffling.

  155. m1kew January 11th, 2010 at 2:34 pm

    I think Johnny’s attitude will be fine if he comes back. It would be his walk year and he would want to show he still is effective and a team player. And if he came back to the Yankees it would be because it was the best deal he could get so he should not resent the lower salary. Most athletes’ earnings are on somewhat of a bell curve. I know – Jeter and Rivera will be exceptions, but most see earnings peak between ages 28 and 32.)

    But whether he returns or not I really think the Yankees are at a minimum equal to last years’ team. Losing Matsui and Damon certainly hurt but their replacements taken as a unit should contribute approximately the same but in different ways (primarily defense and pitching). If he does come back I think that makes the Yankees even stronger.

  156. Frank January 11th, 2010 at 2:34 pm

    “If he wants any chance at the HOF then he needs to re-sign with the Yankees. They give him the best chance to win and the best chance to produce offensively”

    He has no chance of the HOF either way, but the Yankees do give him the best chance to win this year.

  157. S.o.S. January 11th, 2010 at 2:35 pm

    Still put my money on a Cashman trade this month.

  158. Boston Dave - XXVII January 11th, 2010 at 2:36 pm

    Lest we forget, when Johnny was raking earlier in the year (you know, this past season which was one of the best in his career), bloggers were praying the Yanks could keep him.

    I understand the economics, but that doesn’t warrant discounting how valuable Damon is and was for the Yanks. He’s a solid player – period.

  159. blake January 11th, 2010 at 2:36 pm

    Boston Dave , totally agree.

  160. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day January 11th, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    BD, it’s just a difference of opinion; who hates Damon? The fact is, he’s an awful LF – so I disagree with you there strongly. He also faded badly last year (yes he had 24 HRs, but he had none in the final month and looked terrible). I’m not sure what the next two years have to do with the previous four…..

  161. Boston Dave - XXVII January 11th, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    Blake,

    I’m not even saying the Yanks need Damon or should sign him. But I see no reason why Damon wouldn’t be very productive if they did.

    Some posters are acting like he’s an inevitable failure – with zero evidence to support it.

  162. rodg12 January 11th, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    Enough with this 50% pay-cut foolishness and comparing it to our situations. For one, I’m guessing the majority of us aren’t close in scale to what is being discussed for Damon. Secondly, if I had the choice of taking a 50% pay-cut or being unemployed (which is basically the choice Damon has now because I don’t see any team offering him more that $7 million), you’re danged right I’d take the pay-cut.

  163. Ham Fighters January 11th, 2010 at 2:41 pm

    johnny did not play average d this year. he was pretty awful rangewise, had problems with balls at the wall and had balls go off his glove and through his legs. and then there is his arm…nuff said there…

    i like johnny alot but if you consider signing him you have to count him as a d/h and spot OF at best who would need to be replaced in late innings.

  164. blake January 11th, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    How many of you see Gardner or Reed Johnson having the game saving ABs that Damon had in the postseason last year? The guy is a pro hitter and has shown he can get it done on the big stage. If its a one year deal for 5-8 million dollars then its a no brainer.

  165. biz January 11th, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    I am not concerned with Damons pride being hurt if he comes back on a lesser deal. It is known that hes great in the clubhouse and with the amount if professional and veteran guys on the team, they will make him feel right at home. not to mention that hes a fan afvorite and the crowd will cheer for him and make him feel good

  166. vb03 January 11th, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    Just ride the hot bat in LF, whether it be Hoffmann, the 4th OF, or Gardner. No need to commit big money to what amounts to the 9th spot in the lineup. Save the money for the big FA post-2010.

  167. Boston Dave - XXVII January 11th, 2010 at 2:44 pm

    Betsy,

    opinion is fine – but i’m more interested in facts and just surprised so many people are so down on such a consistently good player.

    how was he an awful LF? I can’t say he isn’t but I’ve yet to see anyone show he is, as you say, “awful.”

    show me a player who didn’t go through a prolonged slump last season and I’ll show you an MVP candidate. It happens.

    Fact is, with the bat, Damon is one of the safest bets around in terms of consistency.

  168. Boston Dave - XXVII January 11th, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    rodg12,

    good point when you look at it that way.

  169. Tell the truth January 11th, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    Johnny still needs over 565 hits and some other stats to align. He needs Yankees stadium. Come to your senses Johnny!

  170. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day January 11th, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    It’s definitely not a no-brainer for anything over what the Yankees offered him before – $7 million. Yankee fans have applauded the Sox for valuing players at a certain amount and then cutting the strings when the player demands too much. Now when the Yankees try doing it, it’s not enough – we should bend. I for one hope they stand firm; it would not set a good precedent for the team to cave on a player they aren’t even close to being desperate for. The Yankees don’t think Damon is worth more than $7 million a year and they should stay firm on that.

  171. tex's friend January 11th, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    damon did have problems near the wall, but i dont think he is so bad that i would say i’d rather have reed johnson out there. JOhnny for 7 innings, and gardner for the final 2.

    Yankees continue to win in the regular season with hitting. if they can get damon for a yankee friendly deal, they will. cash says what he says but if he gets the right opportunity he will take it.

  172. Erin January 11th, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    biz
    January 11th, 2010 at 2:43 pm
    I am not concerned with Damons pride being hurt if he comes back on a lesser deal. It is known that hes great in the clubhouse and with the amount if professional and veteran guys on the team, they will make him feel right at home. not to mention that hes a fan afvorite and the crowd will cheer for him and make him feel good

    ********************
    I’m not worried about that either-I can’t see him letting it impact his performance on the field. He’s always been very professional, and I don’t see where that would change.

  173. Boston Dave - XXVII January 11th, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    Ham Fighters,

    I can’t argue that but I’d still like to see some #’s RE: his range. I only saw one statistic which ended up being invalid because it requires more than 1 season of data to be effective.

  174. Macfan January 11th, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    The Yankees more than compensated Damon when they paid him 13 million per season for 4 years.

    He earned around 8 million a year with the Red Sox, then came to the Yankees and earned 13 million a year while having to switch positions, that alone should have indicated to him what the score was.

    If he comes back to the Yankees at 1 year 6 to 7 million dollars, fine by me.

    with a lineup of

    Jeter
    Damon
    Teixeira
    Arod
    Posada
    Granderson
    Johnson
    Cano
    Swisher

    if not I’m content with

    Jeter
    Johnson
    Teixeira
    Arod
    Posada
    Granderson
    Cano
    Swisher
    Gardner/Hairston Jr./Reed Johnson

    I don’t see any team giving Damon more than 1 year.

  175. tex's friend January 11th, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    The Yankees don’t think Damon is worth more than $7 million a year and they should stay firm on that.

    ___

    when he turned down the 2/14 deal, he wont get that again. like with andy last year, it would go down. like 5.5M.

  176. m1kew January 11th, 2010 at 2:49 pm

    Blake

    You say “How many of you see Gardner or Reed Johnson having the game saving ABs that Damon had in the postseason last year?”

    To be fair Damon hit out of the two hole and Johnson is the guy you should be asking the question about. As of this moment (barring a trade) Gardner/Johson/whoever will most likely bat ninth so you should compare those guys with Melky/Molina/whoever.

  177. blake January 11th, 2010 at 2:51 pm

    Boston Dave,

    I’m not saying they have to have him either but for what he will probably cost there really isn’t much risk involved for one of the most consistent hitters in baseball.

  178. rover January 11th, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    Market corrections in tough times. Wish I could be a six million dollar victim. Understand how recent players must feel. The feel millions of times worse than I do.
    My guess if JD was 29 or so the big money longer term would be easily justifiable. Wrong times and wrong ages ad up to smaller deals.

  179. Boston Dave - XXVII January 11th, 2010 at 2:53 pm

    m1kew,

    if they did sign Damon, doesn’t the fact that it would improve their #9 hitter immensely count for something?

    Who hits 9th if Damon comes back?

  180. Ham Fighters January 11th, 2010 at 2:53 pm

    the yankees valued damon at $7M BEFORE they signed nick j for $5.75M. now he is certainly worth less to them.

    johnny needs to give up on coming back and go find someone who wants him, begging to come back at half what he was asking is pathetic.

    the yankees dont consider him a starting OFer (neither do i) and already have a dh. you may argue that they shouldnt have signed nick over johnny, but that ship has sailed, they signed nick already.

    there is no place on this team for johnny damon.

  181. Jerkface January 11th, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    Damon had a negative UZR and UZR/150 and was squarely surrounded by a bunch of terrible fielders. Chances are, he is bad now. Maybe not the worst. Maybe not even horrendous. But he is bad.

    He fielded like C-3PO

  182. timo January 11th, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    I would say the fair way to look at it is that Nick Johnson is the replacement for Matsui at DH and Granderson is considered to be the offensive replacement for JD in the OF. That sounds fine if you look at CG’s 30 HRs. But if you compare JD’s 126 OPS to CG’s 100 OPS and Melky’s 99 OPS to the lower numbers of the likely replacements (assuming JD isn’t re-signed) then a lot of things have to go right or the offense is going to take a step down.

  183. vb03 January 11th, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    The Yankees aren’t going the 37 year old LF route. NYY is no longer a country for old men like in the mid-2000′s. If they find a LF, it will be of the younger, better defense variety.

  184. blake January 11th, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    Betsy, I agree that they should stand firm on their offer but if they can get him for that offer then its a no brainer. He would be great value for 7 million on a one year deal.

  185. mick January 11th, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    GreenBeret7 January 11th, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    I think people are making to much out of “Johnny will be embarrassed” stuff. He’s a professional and if anything, it will spur him on to have a great season somewhere. He’s not the type to dog it.
    ==============================================================
    Especially in a walk year.

  186. Boston Dave - XXVII January 11th, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    Ham Fighters,

    I think that’s fair… but I still don’t agree with those that are basing their opinions on Damon no longer being productive and too risky.

    Also, how many games does UZR require to be useful? Could you use it on a 50game sample? 100? Just curious – thanks.

  187. Phil the Thrill January 11th, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    Church it going to the Pirates.

  188. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Back Johnny!!!! January 11th, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    Boston Dave – XXVII
    January 11th, 2010 at 2:33 pm
    It boggles my mind that people are so down on Damon.

    He just came off a 4 year deal, pretty much injury free, and he hit phenominally. He provided an outstanding leadoff hitter to a team loaded with power bats. He was generally a tough out, often fouling off pitches and making pitchers work.

    He played average D this past season and I believe slightly above average D over his contract.

    Yet people are talking like 2/$12M would be a horrendous move.

    Just baffling.

    ************

    Just for good measure I am going to remind people that if Johnny Damon wasn’t a wizard in Game 4 of the World Series, the Yankees do not win that game

  189. upstate kate January 11th, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    I am still hopeful Damon returns. The new YS seems perfect for him.
    He has already proven he can play on the big stage.
    He is a good clubhouse guy.

    I think his attitude would be fine.
    There aren’t many options out there for him.
    They had to work out a deal w/ Andy last year, and that was certainly successful.
    As far as taking a pay cut, at least he would be playing for a contender, and would most likely make more than he could elsewhere..
    We just had a GM plant close up here, which was a major employer. Most of those workers would be happy to have a job, even at 50% less.

  190. blake January 11th, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    Mcgwire just admitted to using steriods for over a decade and during 1998.

  191. Erin January 11th, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    Erica – always OPPC – Bring Back Johnny!!!!
    January 11th, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    Just for good measure I am going to remind people that if Johnny Damon wasn’t a wizard in Game 4 of the World Series, the Yankees do not win that game

    *********************
    Erica, just the other day I popped in my “Game 4″ disc, and marvelled at your PBF. That was one amazing performance. And it’s nice being able to watch it without almost passing out, like I did during the game when he took off for 3rd base. LOL

  192. m1kew January 11th, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    Boston Dave -

    “if they did sign Damon, doesn’t the fact that it would improve their #9 hitter immensely count for something?”

    Of course it improves their lineup but it hurts their defense. Net, net the Yankees are a better team with Damon back but mostly because he strengthens their lineup.

    I think Damon did a consistently fine job while with the Yankees. He was well paid for his time here and well appreciated. People who are critical of his return are, like me, worried about his defense which if you watched daily you could see weaknesses that were not there 4 years ago.

    “Who hits 9th if Damon comes back?”

    I think Mac Fan covered this already but if Damon returns it is clearly an embarassment of riches … batting nine could be Swisher, Cano or even Granderson (for speed).

    With or without Damon the Yankees have a very strong lineup … unless age catches up to key players.

  193. Hey Kelvin says January 11th, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    Mcgwire is speaking publicly??

  194. S.o.S. January 11th, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    He fielded like C-3PO
    Like r-2-d-2 in 2010 without an arm.

  195. Erin January 11th, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    blake
    January 11th, 2010 at 3:05 pm
    Mcgwire just admitted to using steriods for over a decade and during 1998.

    ******************
    He finally admitted it??

  196. blake January 11th, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    I just heard in the news that he had admitted to using steriods off and on for over a decade and that he used them during the 1998 Hr chase.

  197. Ham Fighters January 11th, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    im not a stathead, im just going by what i saw last season of johnny’s d. i’ve been watching damon since his kc days and it was becoming painful to watch johnny in the OF. balls you thought sure he would catch fell untouched. johnny used to have a very sticky glove, meaning that if he could get his mitt on it, he’d catch it, and last season i saw so many balls tip off his glove or actually bounce out of his glove i was shocked. johnny was perhaps most noted for catching balls while crashing into fences in his heyday, but last year he had fence problems not unlike abreu’s during his yankee tenure.

    someone else can look up his defensive stats and ratings, but i know what my eyes and my mind expected when a ball was h it to damon last year and i was constantly dissappointed at the results.

    i love johnny damon and i hope he has several more productive years in mlb, but i dont think he has any future in the OF, and the yankees have already decided to go another route at dh.

    theyre not paying nick johnson 5M to sit the bench.

  198. Jaosn January 11th, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    from espn.com

    NEW YORK — Mark McGwire finally came clean Monday, admitting he used steroids when he broke baseball’s home run record in 1998.

    McGwire said in a statement sent to The Associated Press on Monday that he used steroids on and off for nearly a decade.

    “I wish I had never touched steroids,” McGwire said in a statement. “It was foolish and it was a mistake. I truly apologize. Looking back, I wish I had never played during the steroid era.”

  199. GreenBeret7 January 11th, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    tex’s friend
    January 11th, 2010 at 2:31 pm
    I’ll admit that having Johnson is ahuge injury risk, but, nobody ever thought that Paul O’Neill could hit 3rd, either.

    ___

    So was Matsui and the yankees managed him at dh very well this year and kept him reasonably healthy. the same would be expected for NJ.

    ————————————————————

    Having both Nick and Reed Johnson is a disaster waiting to happen. What happens if they accidently bump into each other, they end up looking for two replacements. That ends up being another $9 mil flushed down the toilet. Not including the cost in trading for the replacement players…no thanks.

  200. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Back Johnny!!!! January 11th, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    Erin
    January 11th, 2010 at 3:07 pm
    Erica – always OPPC – Bring Back Johnny!!!!
    January 11th, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    Just for good measure I am going to remind people that if Johnny Damon wasn’t a wizard in Game 4 of the World Series, the Yankees do not win that game

    *********************
    Erica, just the other day I popped in my “Game 4? disc, and marvelled at your PBF. That was one amazing performance. And it’s nice being able to watch it without almost passing out, like I did during the game when he took off for 3rd base. LOL

    *********

    Joe Girardi’s descirption of his emotions during that play cracks me up. He said, “I was like- ‘No Johnny No. Oh Go Johnny Go”.

    But the most amazing part of that play was really the pure instinct that was involved. Not to mention, it wasn’t so much that he landed on third. But he took the slider away from Lidge, caused Lidge to meltdown and hit Tex and then gave up the winning hit to A-Rpd

  201. NYY626 January 11th, 2010 at 3:13 pm

    This McGwire revelation is truly shocking…really :roll:

    Good for him for finally coming clean though.

  202. Go Johnny ! January 11th, 2010 at 3:14 pm

    I don’t think there’s a person on this blog that hates Damon.If he came back like Alex,(another person ridiculed for opting out,) he’d be welcomed.

    By Damon making money his reason for holding out, he looks like a mercenary.

    He and his wife went to the papers to speak to Cashman about all the team interested in him, it forced Cahmian to move in a different direction.

    Defensively Damon is lacking, his bat is still good, maybe he’ll come around , or not.

  203. S.o.S. January 11th, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    Mcgwire just admitted to using steriods for over a decade and during 1998.

    =========

    Maybe someone told him that admitting it might be the only way in to the H.O.F.. Is it a coincedence that it comes right after Dawson got voted in?

  204. vb03 January 11th, 2010 at 3:17 pm

    Anyone not living under a rock would know that McGwire was on some pretty strong roids like his buddy Sammy. At least he admitted to it now.

  205. Ham Fighters January 11th, 2010 at 3:18 pm

    if mcgwire had said exactly that during his congressional testimony, he might already be in the hof.

  206. Erin January 11th, 2010 at 3:18 pm

    Erica – always OPPC – Bring Back Johnny!!!!
    January 11th, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    Joe Girardi’s descirption of his emotions during that play cracks me up. He said, “I was like- ‘No Johnny No. Oh Go Johnny Go”.

    ***************

    I do remember hearing that-that’s hilarious. Didn’t Joba say something to the effect of he had a mini heart attack when he saw JD take off? I could sympathize with him. ;)

  207. Carl January 11th, 2010 at 3:19 pm

    S.o.S. January 11th, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    Mcgwire just admitted to using steriods for over a decade and during 1998.

    =========

    Maybe someone told him that admitting it might be the only way in to the H.O.F.. Is it a coincedence that it comes right after Dawson got voted in?

    Um what? Hes been on the ballot for a while now. What does Dawson have to do with anything?

  208. blake January 11th, 2010 at 3:19 pm

    Mcgwire wasn’t getting in the HOF anyway. He’s the definition of a one trick pony and now its confirmed that one trick was all an illusion.

  209. Warning Track Power January 11th, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    Damon should have seen the writing on the wall during the off-season. Damon should have learned a thing or two from what happened to Bobby last season.
    I don’t feel sorry for him one bit. The guy still has millions of dollars in the bank.
    Sure I hope he was still wearing the pinstripes, despite the acquisition of Granderson. I still think Damon can play LF/DH and produce at the plate. Enough production to help this team win.

  210. mick January 11th, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    mcgwire=kingman

  211. Mantle January 11th, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    JD would not be taking a pay cut. His contract ended, so now he is making $0.

  212. Ham Fighters January 11th, 2010 at 3:23 pm

    mantle is right, calling it a pay cut is ridiculous.

  213. kd January 11th, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    is anyone remotely shocked? i hope we gives as much detail as possible.

    here’s a thought. will pujols want to stay a cardinal now. will he want his hitting coach to be a roider, or go to a more ‘clean’ environment? why would he want to deal with the guilt be association comments that will inevitably be there?

  214. S.o.S. January 11th, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    Carl,
    I know hes on the ballot. But he hasnt been getting many votes. Thats what i was getting to. Maybe he thinks it can help him in some way.

  215. Go Johnny ! January 11th, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    Thank goodness Cashman didn’t let postseason play rule his better judgement on keeping players. He knows In The Contract Year all players are motivated. He approached postseason with a plan, and worked his plan. He wasn’t swayed by sentiments, but instead of what HE thinks is best for the team.

    Damon priced himself out off the team , and Cashman wasn’t about to be bullied or played by Boras.

  216. m January 11th, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    I don’t think Damon will have a problem with taking a pay cut. But he will have problem finding a team. :( Sad situation to be an older player. But he’s hardly alone.

    If he comes back on a 1 year, will it be as a part time player? I could see them selling this story to Damon: “We want to develop Brett Gardner and see what he can give us…”

  217. Nick in SF January 11th, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    Erica: are you worried that Cashman traded away Melky and his multiple walkoff hits?

  218. stuckey January 11th, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    “Just for good measure I am going to remind people that if Johnny Damon wasn’t a wizard in Game 4 of the World Series, the Yankees do not win that game”

    A-Rod or Posada’s hit wouldn’t have scored him from second?

    We know for a fact the Phillies score in the bottom half?

    It was a great play, but no one knows if it was the difference between winning and losing.

  219. m January 11th, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    Damon’s play was amazing. But I read that they’re all taught to go when no one is covering 3rd. Whether or not they do is another story. But it was like robbing a bank after hours, with the vault wide open and no security guard.

  220. mick January 11th, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    Granderson. I still think Damon can play LF/DH and produce at the plate. Enough production to help this team win
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Don’t underestimate his value. He is a gamer. What if Johnson goes down? Now we have no-names in LF and at DH. At least Damon can DH and we take our chances in LF.

  221. Warning Track Power January 11th, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    stuckey-we might not know, but that play just proves he is a fine baseball player who can help a team win with his bat and his speed.
    nothing wrong with that.

  222. vb03 January 11th, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    stuckey January 11th, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    “Just for good measure I am going to remind people that if Johnny Damon wasn’t a wizard in Game 4 of the World Series, the Yankees do not win that game”

    A-Rod or Posada’s hit wouldn’t have scored him from second?

    We know for a fact the Phillies score in the bottom half?

    It was a great play, but no one knows if it was the difference between winning and losing.

    ——————————

    A-Rod’s clutch hit down the line easily scores Damon from 2nd. Lidge is a mental, so even the runner on 2nd might have caused him to implode. It was a great play, but not a game-decider.

    Besides, Posada’s hit would have put the nail in the Phillies coffin either way.

  223. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Back Johnny!!!! January 11th, 2010 at 3:32 pm

    stuckey
    January 11th, 2010 at 3:28 pm
    “Just for good measure I am going to remind people that if Johnny Damon wasn’t a wizard in Game 4 of the World Series, the Yankees do not win that game”

    A-Rod or Posada’s hit wouldn’t have scored him from second?

    We know for a fact the Phillies score in the bottom half?

    It was a great play, but no one knows if it was the difference between winning and losing.

    ************

    The Yankees were in Philly. It was the top of the 9th inning. There were two outs. Lidge’s money pitch is the slider in the dirt which he occasionally throws wild. Damon being on third takes that slider away from him limiting him to a fastball.

    By the Yanks having the lead, Rivera comes in for the save which gives the Yankees the win.

    Without Damon’s two base steal the Yanekes do not win that game

  224. blake January 11th, 2010 at 3:32 pm

    Yea playoff performance had nothing to do with the Yankees bidding against themselves to give Pettite 11 million dollars. I don’t have a problem with it because I wanted him back but they could have had him cheaper and had he not went undefeated in the postseason the Yankees would have taken a harder line with him IMO.

  225. CR9 January 11th, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    Poor Mark.

    Mark did the right thing.

    Even though it’s nobody’s business whether he did or didn’t, this is the first step, and hopefully he gets in the HOF.

  226. mick January 11th, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    stuckey January 11th, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    “Just for good measure I am going to remind people that if Johnny Damon wasn’t a wizard in Game 4 of the World Series, the Yankees do not win that game”

    A-Rod or Posada’s hit wouldn’t have scored him from second?

    We know for a fact the Phillies score in the bottom half?

    It was a great play, but no one knows if it was the difference between winning and losing.
    =====================================================
    Needless to say it was a great play. Perhaps a spark they needed.

  227. Patrick from CT January 11th, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    Damon’s starting out field spot was filled by trading for Granderson. The only way Damon was coming back to the Yankees was as the DH and 4th outfilder. Now the DH spot is filled by NJ.
    The only spot left is the replacement for Melky in the platoon with Gardy in CF/LF. That spot may or maynot be won by rule 5 guy Hoffman.
    The Yankees/Cash are looking for a RH hitting bench guy that can play in the OF.
    Depending on how they view this guy Hoffman, the Yankees will either sign a guy that could slot into an every day OF spot like Reed Johnson, a power bat like Markus Thames, or a supersub like Hairston.
    My vote would to let the kids play the OF and get a power bat like Thames or Nady.
    Johnnie will playing somewhere else in 2010. My guess is for the Royals or A’s.

  228. BigSix January 11th, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    Big Mac admits steroid use for a decade:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/201.....ds_mcgwire

  229. m January 11th, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    Got no problem with Andy getting what he got. The Yankees squeezed him last season knowing that he wanted to pitch in New Yankee Stadium.

    The difference between Andy and Damon, is that Andy would actually have a market. But Andy chooses not to explore it.

  230. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Back Johnny!!!! January 11th, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    Nick in SF
    January 11th, 2010 at 3:28 pm
    Erica: are you worried that Cashman traded away Melky and his multiple walkoff hits?

    *************

    Nah- although, when watchign the World Series DVD this weekend it hit me for the first time that Melky was gone. I was sad for like 5 seconds and then the world made sense again

  231. Frank January 11th, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    “will pujols want to stay a cardinal now. will he want his hitting coach to be a roider, or go to a more ‘clean’ environment”

    Like where? He’s not going to eliminate his hometown team, and MLB’s three biggest market teams from contention for his services because they’re PED stained.

  232. BigSix January 11th, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    Does the fact that borderline HOF pitchers like Mussina had to pitch to juiced batters like McGwire, Canseco, Bonds, etc. for the length of their careers now further enhance their candidacy?

  233. Ham Fighters January 11th, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    guilt by association? you are kidding right? mcwire becomes his coach AFTER albert won 3 mvp’s, 8 all star selections, 1 championship, was voted the most feared hitter in the game and chosen as the best player in the decade but people are going to hold mcgwire against him?

  234. stuckey January 11th, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    “we might not know, but that play just proves he is a fine baseball player who can help a team win with his bat and his
    speed.

    nothing wrong with that.”

    Not sure if anyone is arguing with that. I do wonder however, given his September and pedestrian post-season up to that point, if that ONE play raised his “intangibles” through the roof with some fans.

    I wonder if we’d be talking about him as much if he happen to line-out to left that AB, or was thrown out at 2nd?

  235. Chad Jennings January 11th, 2010 at 3:37 pm

    New post. McGwire and steroids. Who knew?

  236. CR9 January 11th, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    Some St. Louis columnist just brought up Andy Pettitte’s name in re: to McGwire’s statement.

    He said McGwire gave the “ole Andy Pettitte excuse” that Andy “did not want to”

    That statement about Andy is simply false, in every aspect. Andy knew what he was doing, and did it because of an injury.

    Mark did it without injuries, solely for performance.

    Andy came out and admitted the partial truth, to try and protect Clemens, then gave the full truth later.

  237. BigSix January 11th, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    I would think once the “Steroid Era” is looked back on, guys like Moose will stand out as having performed well above and beyond against a fleet of cheaters.

    That is to say, if Mussina himself was clean.

    Oh, the heck with it. Who knows…

  238. Frank January 11th, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    “Does the fact that borderline HOF pitchers like Mussina had to pitch to juiced batters like McGwire, Canseco, Bonds, etc. for the length of their careers now further enhance their candidacy?”

    Don’t see how anyone can assume the borderline HOF pitchers in question were any cleaners than the hitters they faced.

  239. Bronx Jeers January 11th, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    Good for Mark. At least he can look people in the eye again knowing that he’s got nothing to hide.

    I don’t see how this admission helps his HOF chances much.

    10 yrs of use? Probably in the prime of his career?

    How can you vote for that?

  240. Frank January 11th, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    *any cleaner

  241. vb03 January 11th, 2010 at 3:40 pm

    Damon is a very good batter and a very smart baserunner. That said, his noodle arm, questionable range and diminishing speed in the field make DH the only position where you can put him with the most benefit. Sadly for him and his fans, that position has already been filled with the Baron of BB, Nick Johnson.

  242. tex's friend January 11th, 2010 at 3:40 pm

    Mark McGwire confessed to roids finally.

  243. 86w183 January 11th, 2010 at 3:40 pm

    I love this blog and the guys have done a great job with it, but please stop with the tears for the massive pay cut Johnny Damon is going to have to settle for.

    If he doesn’t like it he can retire. A lot of us have lost work in the last year… work that helps us pay for our kids education, not work that lets us buy a new yacht every few months.

    Enough already. Aren’t these guys spoiled enough, rich enough and out of touch enough without generating sympathy because no one wants to pay them more than $ FIVE MILLION to work four hour days for six months.

    It make me wanna puke!

  244. haiku-man January 11th, 2010 at 3:40 pm

    St Louis newspaper carries the Mcgwire story, they are livid!
    http://www.globe-democrat.com

    stltoday.com is another St Louis news source.

    I knew McGwire was a fraud. The Roger Maris family was at that game when he broke the single season record of hr.

    THEY MUST FEEL SICK!

  245. Boston Dave - XXVII January 11th, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    Sad because McGwire still would have crushed the ball without steroids. He hit 49 HR, I believe, as a skinny (well, much skinnier) rookie.

    Once McGwire and the rest were using, it almost made it crazy for others to not use in order to compete.

    Shame on MLB for allowing it. Now move on…

    Well, unless Big Papi or Manny wants to quit with his charade and fess up.

  246. GreenBeret7 January 11th, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    People on MLB, from Dave Parker to Harold Reynolds to the idiot, Verducci keep talking about baseball having never seen anybody hit baseballs as far as McGwire. Apparenly, they never saw players like Mantle, Killabrew, Dick Stuart and Willie McCovey hit baseballs. Mantle was hitting 500+ foot homers as early as 1951 and at least 6 over 500 fet in 1953 alone.

    Of course Verducci was slobbering all over McGwire’s admitting to using and actually saying the word “steroid” when Rodriguez would only say “boli”. He must still be sleeping with Selena Roberts.

  247. Nick in SF January 11th, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    So maybe the players who are joining the 2010 team will contribute to some wins as Damon and Melky (and Matsui) did in 2009?

    Or:

    The fact that Player X contributed to Win A in 2009 does not mean than the Yankees can’t win in 2010 without Player X in the lineup.

  248. Boston Dave - XXVII January 11th, 2010 at 3:45 pm

    86w,

    Johnny has already said he’ll be taking a pat cut.

    Nobody should feel sorry for him.

    That said, more power to him to try and get as much $$ as he can (as any of us would also do.)

  249. Boston Dave - XXVII January 11th, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    *pay cut

  250. 86w183 January 11th, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    Since we can never truly know who did what in any era I have always considered the Scarlet-Letter treatment of steroid era guys to be hypocritical and sanctimonious.

    Everyone knows baseball player used illegal amphetamines for decades but for some reason that’s been largely if not completely ignored.

    I would vote for steroid users or suspected users if they were great players without inflated power numbers. To me, Alex, Manny, Barry and Roger get in…. Mark, Rafael and Sheff do not.

  251. stuckey January 11th, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    “Damon being on third takes that slider away from him limiting him to a fastball.”

    So A-Rod had no chance if Lidge could throw his splitter?

    None?

    “Without Damon’s two base steal the Yanekes do not win that game.”

    Yankees bullpen was incapable of throwing a scoreless 9th? Or a 10th or 11th for that matter?

    Yeah, if he wasn’t standing on third, then the Yankees chances of winning that game decrease. This is a fact.

    But to say their chances of winning that game decreases to 0% is hyperbole.

    And I’ll say this. The common characteristic between heroes is opportunity. It was a GREAT play. But I’m not sitting here prepared to say what percentage of players who have the speed to be stealing in that situation to begin with wouldn’t have made the same play?

    Does Jeter make it? I suspect so. Does A-Rod? Don’t see why not.

    As I say, GREAT, memorable, all-time classic play. Has NOTHING to do with whether Damon should be brought back next year.

  252. 86w183 January 11th, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    Boston Dave —

    My quibble was not with Damon it’s with Sam for him writing as if you and I taking a 50 percent pay cut is anything similar than a multi-millionaire taking one.

    My wife got laid off last year and I lost some work as well. We were doing very well and now we’re not doing nearly as well. We’re fine and need to sympathy, but it forced us to cut in a lot of areas.

    Damon’s situation is nothing at all like that and I hope he and Sam both understand that.

  253. Patrick January 11th, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    Haha another classy tweet by pete abe:

    PeteAbe:
    I thought for sure McGwire would go with the “Dominican cousin” defense.

    Will this guy ever get over A-rod?

  254. Rick January 11th, 2010 at 4:04 pm

    The team has just 2 true RH hitters in Jeter and A-Rod. With the exception of bench players, all others are either switch hitters or LH hitters.
    This plus less than average OF play and weak arm puts Damon at a disadvantage. If Boras had not wanted such a ridiculous deal early on, Nick Johnson might not have been signed.

  255. Randy January 11th, 2010 at 4:11 pm

    Johnny put your pride aside , 4 or 5 million to play for the best orginzation in Baseball , I would take it and like it.

    Randy

  256. Stateman52 January 11th, 2010 at 4:21 pm

    Johnny, take 5 million with incentives and Kim Jones will be very happy.

  257. ko January 11th, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    The Yankees won a championship last year so its hard to complain, but I will anyway. Once the market tanked for Abreu, the Yankees should have picked him up for a year. He would have been the perfect #3 hitter and Teixeira would have been the #5. A major upgrade over Swisher.
    This year, if the market tanks for Damon, I’d sign him for a year in a heartbeat. He’s a major upgrade over Johnson. Granderson is a bottom of the lineup hitter because he’s useless against lefthanders. Unfortunately, resigning Damon will not fill the hole in the middle of the lineup left by Matsui’s departure.

  258. DaSaint007 January 11th, 2010 at 5:04 pm

    Ham,

    You may be on to something. I think Johnny will return, but not to KC or the Yankees. Maybe back to boston. LF @ Fenway doesn’t get much smaller. With JD in LF, and Cameron in CF, they can trade Ellisbury and other parts for a mid-lineup hitter like M. Cabrera or A. Gonzalez.

  259. Francis Isberto January 11th, 2010 at 6:53 pm

    The Yankees should set a deadline for Johnny Damon. He will then be force to sign.

  260. pistol pete January 11th, 2010 at 8:16 pm

    Johnny Damon is far better than any of the imposters proposed as a righty platoon with Gardner. For God’s sake let’s not compare him to Hairston or Gardner. He can play under pressure, play in the playoffs, hit lefties well, is built for Yankee Stadium, and if signed for whatever will play hard and play well as he always has. The more players like Gardner, Hairston and the like play the more their weaknesses come out. The Yankees are a team built for the playoffs, Damon can play well in the playoffs, his price and term is certainly cheap enough now. Sign him at 6 or 7 million, get Thames or Mora for the bench, get Hairston for the utility man, and let’s get on with it.

  261. 2010 Yankees January 12th, 2010 at 11:52 am

    This is the time where a Yankee renogiates his contract and frees up 2010 money to get Damon back on the team. I still think Damon belongs here for 2010…it’s just a matter of how much it’ll take to get it done.

  262. Raul January 12th, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    Lets negotiate with Damon,he will be a great fit for this Yankees team…Give him 7 million plus incentives,im sure we are not going to regret it.

  263. mmrfr January 12th, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    I fear its time we all just forget Johnny for 2010. We will always have the memories of what he brought to the table but its time we move on. Even with Brett in LF, hitting 9th with normal production out of everyone else we have an great offense. 1-8 in the line up provide pop and or OBP for the next guy to drive him in. Even in the worst case and and injury takes a thunder bat out for awhile we have a pitching staff now that can keep us in most games. I certainly can’t see this lineup averaging less than 5 runs a game and 1-4 and maybe 5 pitchers having an ERA over 5. Can any of you?

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