MLB partners for umpire education program
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 20, 2010 
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Unless you’re a huge Doug Davis fan or really enjoy will they, won’t they retirement speculation, today has been another slow, mid-January day for baseball news. Just this once, I’m hoping it stays that way because I’m planning to see a Haiti benefit concert tonight in Brooklyn. I’ll be checking in on my phone, but unless something breaks, this is probably it for the blog tonight.
Here’s a press release from Major League Baseball. Good work by baseball to come up with programs like this.
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As a part of the ongoing spirit of partnership with the United States military, Major League Baseball has collaborated with Columbia College (MO), a leader in military-friendly education, on the development of a certificate of professional umpiring. Following the completion of online coursework in subjects relevant to sports officiating, the program incorporates a week-long training program at the annual MLB Umpire Camp, held each November at the MLB Urban Youth Academy in Compton, California.
The partnership with Columbia College (based in Columbia, Missouri, with 34 campus locations nationwide) is the MLB Umpiring Department’s latest step in a series of initiatives that aim to provide career-oriented experiences to members of the military. During the 2009 World Baseball Classic last March, MLB and the Department of Military Affairs of the San Diego Padres organized a free one-day Umpire Camp for Marines at San Diego State University’s Tony Gwynn Stadium. More than 100 Marines attended the special MLB Umpire Camp, receiving instruction from MLB staff on all facets of umpiring.
“Major League Baseball is pleased that its Umpire Camps can provide an educational outlet for the students of Columbia College who have interest in umpiring as a profession,” said Jimmie Lee Solomon, MLB’s Executive Vice President, Baseball Operations. “Our game as a whole has taken many steps to honor our nation’s heroes. The Major League Umpires are thrilled to use the MLB Umpire Camp as a platform to work with these highly motivated and dedicated individuals as they consider potential careers in the next chapters of their lives.”
Many members of the MLB Umpiring staff, including Mark Carlson (U.S. Marine Corps), Jerry Crawford (U.S. Army Reserve), Laz Diaz (U.S. Marine Corps), Randy Marsh (U.S. Army Reserve) and Ed Montague (U.S. Navy), have military experience.
Columbia College has helped military personnel, their family members and Department of Defense civilians earn college degrees during their service for more than 30 years, being recognized as one of the most military-friendly colleges in the country. One of every four students at Columbia College is in the military or is a military dependent, and 18 of the school’s 34 extended campuses across the country are located on military bases.
“The certificate is a new and exciting concept for Columbia College,” said Dr. Terry Smith, the school’s Executive Vice President and Dean for Academic Affairs. “We are thrilled to partner with such a prestigious organization and together hope to produce a large cohort of highly-skilled baseball umpires for our communities.”
The MLB Umpire Camp assists those interested in the field of umpiring in furthering the advancement of their college, high school and little league umpiring careers and also serves as a preparatory course to those considering a career as a Major League or Minor League umpire. The Camp provides world-class umpire training, going beyond classroom instruction and field work to also focus on rules interpretations, positioning, conditioning, nutrition, safety and equipment.
Additional information on the MLB Umpire Camps is available by visiting www.MLBUmpireCamps.com or www.MLBUC.com. The official web site of Columbia College is www.ccis.edu.
a one week camp and an online certification? be nice if the current umps had to go through that, not just military/columbia people.
No offense Chad, but I like your daily Johnny Damon updates much better
Rory (Sacramento)
Is there a past or present player that you would compare Jesus Montero to in terms of what you expect him to be?
Jim Callis (2:16 PM)
Miguel Cabrera.
and this one made me laugh…
Kevin (Boston, MA)
Felix Hernandez or Jon Lester?
Jim Callis (2:18 PM)
Hernandez.
Surprised they didn’t ask Arod or Beltre
Tom B
January 20th, 2010 at 6:04 pm
a one week camp and an online certification? be nice if the current umps had to go through that, not just military/columbia people.
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The on-line certification sounds about right for the umpires, since most of them have been mailing it in for years anyway.
Ooh, GB, that was co-old!
I thought all you had to do to be an umpire was stay at a holliday inn express the night before the game
Doreen-
Have you had a chance to consider what we discussed on GTLU?
blake
January 20th, 2010 at 6:33 pm
Surprised they didn’t ask Arod or Beltre
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I think I remember seeing that Alex was part of a fundraiser this past weekend.
GreenBeret7
January 20th, 2010 at 6:39 pm
Tom B
January 20th, 2010 at 6:04 pm
a one week camp and an online certification? be nice if the current umps had to go through that, not just military/columbia people.
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The on-line certification sounds about right for the umpires, since most of them have been mailing it in for years anyway.
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Nice!!!
Doreen – Ain’t it Just “Grand”? January 20th, 2010 at 5:58 pm
Gooden & Straw had some great turns as Yankees, but I was a Mets fan way back in the olden days, and I saw them both come up as rookies. They were incredible. They lit up that franchise – gave it a ton of excitement. Sure, Hernandez and Carter didn’t hurt, but as you all know, there’s nothing like a homegrown superstar to get you really excited about your team. And these boys were superstars.
====================================================
Doreen, just wondering how you went from Mets to Yankees fan?What was the turning point?
Doreen – Ain’t it Just “Grand”?
January 20th, 2010 at 6:41 pm
Ooh, GB, that was co-old!
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Baseball has left themselves wide open for those sorts of comments. The umpiring, much like the fundamentals of baseball has deteriorated badly over the last 20 years.
Partially because the umps are 20 years older, fatter and with less eyesight. They need more youth and umps who can get into proper position to make the call. Speedier umps, that’s the ticket.
Erica-
This is for you, lil’ blog post about JD.
http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/.....nny-damon/
If Damon signs somewhere other than NY for less than $6MM for a year, the Yanks will have screwed up, IMHO. If he hasn’t signed because he’s still holding out for more, then that’s on him and I can’t fret over it.
mick
January 20th, 2010 at 7:06 pm
Partially because the umps are 20 years older, fatter and with less eyesight. They need more youth and umps who can get into proper position to make the call. Speedier umps, that’s the ticket.
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It’s the young umpires that are the biggest issues. Those are the ones that have tried to make themselves part of the story and they are the worst at being inconsistant and out of position.
Wave, I can agree with that.
GreenBeret7 January 20th, 2010 at 7:13 pm
mick
January 20th, 2010 at 7:06 pm
Partially because the umps are 20 years older, fatter and with less eyesight. They need more youth and umps who can get into proper position to make the call. Speedier umps, that’s the ticket.
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It’s the young umpires that are the biggest issues. Those are the ones that have tried to make themselves part of the story and they are the worst at being inconsistant and out of position.
=============================================================
It seems the umps became militant years back when they started thinking they were bigger than the game. Guys like Angel Hernandez with their holier than thou attitudes. It seems, at times like they instigate arguments by getting in players and mgrs faces more than they have to. The older ones don’t seem to be able to move fast enough to get into the right position. More use of replay will get them honest just as Questec narrowed the strike zone.
The Yankees would have screwed up in what way?
Not waiting for his price to drop and moving on NJ?
Not viewing him as a full time LF, which they would have to at this point?
Sticking to a budget?
There are far to many variables here to just make a blanket statement like that.
Not to mention, Damon may not want to come back to the Yanks at that price.
Do we really think the umpiring was better 20 yeas ago, or is this just another case of always thinking things were better back when?
Wave Your Hat January 20th, 2010 at 7:10 pm
If Damon signs somewhere other than NY for less than $6MM for a year, the Yanks will have screwed up, IMHO. If he hasn’t signed because he’s still holding out for more, then that’s on him and I can’t fret over it.
=========================================================
It seems to me they are playing a waiting game. It’s all on Damon and Boras. The longer they wait , the less the offer. Boras, as his adviser should know that.
“It’s the young umpires that are the biggest issues. Those are the ones that have tried to make themselves part of the story and they are the worst at being inconsistant and out of position”
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Good evening GB. I have been out of circulation a bit. I had a car accident on January 1st, and left me feeling like I had been beat up but I am doing ok.
Anyways, I think you are right on target about the umpires making themselves part of the story. It just seems like baseball officials more than many other sports tend to get into it with the players and do the verbal sparring with them.
“There are far to many variables here to just make a blanket statement like that.”
No variables at all. If, at any time between now and opening day Damon signs with a team, other than the Yanks, for less than $6MM, I say the Yanks will have screwed up.
For that amount of money, there ought to be a contingency line in the Yanks’ budget for just that situation. It’s just not that big a % of their overall spending.
If he goes under $6MM for a team other than us, classic case of penny wise, pound foolish.
At this point it is difficult to find a place that Damon fits, other than with the Yankees. I think that is why some of the “will Damon retire” news hit today. Boras needs some way to leverage the situation. Can anyone name a club where Damon fits, other than NYY?
Japan.
Wave is right.. Damon for 5 or 6 million for one year carries much more reward than it does risk. It doesn’t affect there longterm flexibility and its not going to break their bank. The only thing it does is make the 2010 team better and increases the outfield and DH depth.
Buddy Biancalana
January 20th, 2010 at 7:07 pm
Erica-
This is for you, lil’ blog post about JD.
http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/…..nny-damon/
**************
Johnny wants 3,000 hits way too badly to quit now.
Thank you for sharing
Damon isn’t going anywhere other than New York. If he really wanted to go somewhere else, that would have happened already.
Hoffa
January 20th, 2010 at 7:20 pm
Do we really think the umpiring was better 20 yeas ago, or is this just another case of always thinking things were better back when?
***************
The umpiring was probably just as bad. But the TVs were fuzzier so you didn’t notice it as much
Hope you are doing better, ray.
About umpires, in regards to making themselves part of the story, every major league’s umpires/referees feel as though they are or should be a part of the games.
They are power mongers, and feel as if they should be recognized or as if the games center around them.
Simply, they are control freaks.
“The only thing it does is make the 2010 team better and increases the outfield and DH depth.”
Which you don’t really need in the post-season (depth I mean), which what I recall you and I agreed on just the other day is Damon’s only real (marginal) value…
“The umpiring was probably just as bad. But the TVs were fuzzier so you didn’t notice it as much.”
That is my thought as well. Plus camera work is much better today, providing better angles from which to view a play. I was watching the 1977 World Series several months ago, and is amazing how poor the picture and angles are.
Is there honestly NO self-awareness among some of you that you’re complaining daily that the Yankees aren’t spending enough money?
It’s really unseemly (and illogical!!!)
Thanks CR9.
Stuckey,
No, I said I thought Damon would be more than marginal improvement to the team and I think having another experienced and clutch bat would be handy in the playoffs.
Listen we aren’t talking about breaking the bank here. This isn’t going to be a long term or even expensive deal. 1/5-6 carries very little risk for what rewards it could potentially bring IMO..you don’t have to agree.
ray (sox fan)
January 20th, 2010 at 7:24 pm
“It’s the young umpires that are the biggest issues. Those are the ones that have tried to make themselves part of the story and they are the worst at being inconsistant and out of position”
———————————————————
Good evening GB. I have been out of circulation a bit. I had a car accident on January 1st, and left me feeling like I had been beat up but I am doing ok.
Anyways, I think you are right on target about the umpires making themselves part of the story. It just seems like baseball officials more than many other sports tend to get into it with the players and do the verbal sparring with them.
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WHAT???? You wrecked my new car?
Evening, Ray. Hope you weren’t hurt in the accident? How was yours and the (sox fan) family’s holiday season…besides the accident? I’m guessing that you bought yaz a new tu-tu and pink ribbons for his hair.
Your team has been active this winter. How do you think it’ll work out? Losing Bay and Lowell is going to be a bit of a jolt to the offense.
Yeah, not crazy about the new wave of umpires. really, expect for guys like Steve Palermo, John Hirshbeck and Derwood Merrill, the umpiring in the last 20-30 has been brutal…showboating, confrontational and never in position to make proper calls.
“If Damon signs somewhere other than NY for less than $6MM for a year, the Yanks will have screwed up, IMHO. If he hasn’t signed because he’s still holding out for more, then that’s on him and I can’t fret over it.”
We don’t know if Damon would be willing to play for the Yankees for less than $6m a year.
Correction:
Really, ***except*** for guys like
GreenBeret7
January 20th, 2010 at 7:49 pm
Correction:
Really, ***except*** for guys like
*************
Well, there is an errorless streak down the drain!
Erica,
I’m thinking the phrase “errorless streak” along with the name GB would constitute an oxymoron!
Couldn’t help it GB.
“Listen we aren’t talking about breaking the bank here.”
But this is the part some of your don’t seem willing to consider. The Yankees already broke the bank. And now you’re complaining that won’t keep going.
I really think you should all take a step back and consider what dubious logic is to say “well they already sent $200m, what’s another 6 or 7 more?”
And when they get to $207m what’s another 7 or 8 more and so on.
You can couch it all you like, the bottom line is Yankees fans are complaining the team isn’t spending enough.
There is NO way around that and it’s ludicrous.
“Which you don’t really need in the post-season (depth I mean), which what I recall you and I agreed on just the other day is Damon’s only real (marginal) value…”
I completely disagree. Just this year we lost one starting outfielder for several games in the World Series (Melky) and another for half a game (Damon). If the Yankees didn’t have depth that would have been an issue.
Also, if you watched the World Series this year, you saw Damon’s value (working counts, heads up baserunning, clutch hitting). I’m not convinced that Gardner can’t get the job done, but saying that Damon only offers marginal value in the playoffs is misguided IMHO.
Hoffa
January 20th, 2010 at 7:20 pm
Do we really think the umpiring was better 20 yeas ago, or is this just another case of always thinking things were better back when?
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When umpires like Joe west, Emmitt ashford and Ron Lucciano came into the league 20 and 30 years ago, the started showboating and never paid a lot of attention to what was going on. They were more interested in being seen. To his credit, Lucciano was a funny guy and the managers and players liked him, but, he wan’t a great umpire. he did admit when he made mistakes, but, he wouldn’t change the calls. He did allow them a lot of leeway to vent, though. He just made too many mistakes. Except for a rare few, they haven’t gotten better.
ray (sox fan)
January 20th, 2010 at 7:54 pm
Erica,
I’m thinking the phrase “errorless streak” along with the name GB would constitute an oxymoron!
Couldn’t help it GB.
************
He was bragging he made it three in a row errorless last night. Had to let him know I was paying attention.
Leaving work now folks. Good night!!!
Erica – always OPPC – Bring Back Johnny!!!!
January 20th, 2010 at 7:50 pm
GreenBeret7
January 20th, 2010 at 7:49 pm
Correction:
Really, ***except*** for guys like
*************
Well, there is an errorless streak down the drain!
ray (sox fan)
January 20th, 2010 at 7:54 pm
Erica,
I’m thinking the phrase “errorless streak” along with the name GB would constitute an oxymoron!
Couldn’t help it GB.
————————————————————
Erica, picture me sticking my tongue out at you.
Ray, picture me shooting you the bird.
“Also, if you watched the World Series this year, you saw Damon’s value (working counts, heads up baserunning, clutch hitting). I’m not convinced that Gardner can’t get the job done, but saying that Damon only offers marginal value in the playoffs is misguided IMHO.”
I believe people better versed than I have already projected that during the course of a 162 season, adding Johnny Damon would make the Yankees like 1 win better….
Extrapolate that over a maximum of 19 games and….
His value would be marginal, and that’s not a criticism of his skills in any way, shape or form.
“I believe people better versed than I have already projected that during the course of a 162 season, adding Johnny Damon would make the Yankees like 1 win better….”
Closer to 2.
Stuckey,
You like the word dubious don’t you.
It would be a one year deal, therefore after this year it goes away..there would be no 207 + 7 more or whatever..
So you are saying that of the Yankees were to sign Damon to a one year deal for 5 or 6 million then you would call that a mistake?
“No variables at all. If, at any time between now and opening day Damon signs with a team, other than the Yanks, for less than $6MM, I say the Yanks will have screwed up.
For that amount of money, there ought to be a contingency line in the Yanks’ budget for just that situation. It’s just not that big a % of their overall spending.”
——————————-
If you do not see any variables in this situation then you are just looking at it way too much like a fan from an emotional perspective.
There are 2 huge things at play here:
1. Damon may not want to take the hit on his pride and come back to the Yankees at a huge decrease in salary. There is nothing the Yankees can do about that.
2. He may very well be just a DH who can play LF. The Yankees already have a DH, so if this is the case he becomes a very expensive bench player which would be quite a foolish investment.
When you have a 200 million dollar payroll and a team that already projects to win 100 games, having a contingency line at this point in the off-season is ridiculous. The Yankees have zero needs right now. They could upgrade LF, but any upgrade is basically worthless considering the investment. You do not make contingency plans to go from 100 wins to 101 or 102 wins which is what Damon would make them.
Not to mention, Damon as the Yankee LF is not even a guarantee to improve this team as presently constructed. His offensive statistics are basically almost guaranteed to go down from last year and if he continues to decline defensively which is likely as well he will not be very valuable if both of these things go down enough.
The Yankees will certainly have a contingency line for mid-season in case a need arises. Spending that money on Damon now, which barely helps the team (if at all) as presently constructed could erase the money they have at the trade deadline. That could be a huge problem if the Yankees suffer a major injury.
The Yankees have a budget and a 100 win team. Going beyond that budget at this point is completely unnecessary and may actually be the foolish thing to do considering the return you will get on your investment. Would it be nice to have Damon? Sure. Will it really have any impact on the Yankee season and WS hopes? Very unlikely.
mick -
I had my first baby in 1987 and my second in 1989. My life for the next several years was filled with Barney, Sesame Street, Raffi, Parachute Express, pre-school, kindergarten, brownies, PTA, etc. I paid zero attention to baseball. My husband had always been a Yankee fan and so during that time, it was always the Yankees on tv if there was game on. (He, too, was mainly a casual fan at that time.) When I was ready to turn my atention to things I liked, I found I didn’t know any of the Mets players but all of the Yankees players. So, there ya go.
Erica -
I will have an answer by tomorrow evening.
GB,
You were asking me what I thought about the Sox moves this winter.
I’m not really sure. If Lackey stays healthy he will be a nice addition to the rotation.
But as you alluded to, I am concerned about the offense. Manny is long gone, Bay is a Met, and Lowell is out, not to mention how much Ortiz has slowed down. All winter I heard talk about getting another bat but it hasn’t materialized yet I don’t think.
You guys will clearly be the favorite to win the tough AL east again this next year in my opinion.
“Extrapolate that over a maximum of 19 games and….
His value would be marginal, and that’s not a criticism of his skills in any way, shape or form.”
The problem with your logic is that postseason games are much more closely contested than regular season games, so you can’t extrapolate regular season value across the postseason because they are not equivilant comparisons.
ray (sox fan)
Sorry to hear of your accident. Hope your recovery is going well.
Just to add to the Damon talk the below tweet from Jim Bowden. Hairston was on his show tonight on XM
Breaking news J Hairston just told me on XM 175 that Yankees never made him an offer because they are waiting for Damon price to come down
Jerry Hairston “Brian Cashmans going to get mad at me, but Yanks didn’t make me offer because he’s waiting on Damon price to come down” on XM
Game changer from Haiston???
Wow Hairston,
Doing Johnny D a real solid there letting him know the Yanks are still interested.
Sorry, but that’s pretty unprofessional, I think.
Let’s hope Jerry didn’t cost Cash some leverage there. If nobody else is interested then it won’t matter but the Yankees are waiting on Damon I believe no matter how “marginal” an upgrade he will be.
“1. Damon may not want to take the hit on his pride and come back to the Yankees at a huge decrease in salary. There is nothing the Yankees can do about that.”
I don’t have much patience for this line of argument. If Damon can’t find a better offer out there, my guess he is sufficiently mature to accept a Yank offer. The notion that he can’t come back to the Yanks because of the big pay cut is just armchair psychology. It might make some sense in the situation where Damon had not yet tested the market; it doesn’t make any sense where he has tested the market and the offers aren’t there.
“2. He may very well be just a DH who can play LF.”
Another popular argument I don’t agree with. Damon is not a good left fielder anymore, but he is far from a terrible one. Resist drawing too many conclusions from a one year UZR sample.
“When you have a 200 million dollar payroll and a team that already projects to win 100 games, having a contingency line at this point in the off-season is ridiculous.”
Yeah, the Massachusetts Democrats probably said something similar about Martha Coakley back in December. As the early astronauts said, “it can blow at any seam.” If the investment is relatively small (under $6MM in our example, the Yanks need to get Damon.
Wow, gayle, if that’s true –
It really is a cold business. Just business. They’re probably figuring that if Damon’s price comes down enough, then great. If not, then there’s plenty of other OF options to go for.
Damon is going to pay the price for misjudging the market, and take a big cut in pay, just like Bobby Abreu did last year. Hideki Matsui and his agent are looking at what’s gone on this offseason and thinking they were smart to sign when they did. 6.5M is more than any of the other free agent OF/DH types are getting.
What makes you think Cashman has told Hairston his plans? Sure, he probably can guess that Cashman has targeted another player and that player might be Damon, but I don’t think Cashman reveals his cards to other agents and players.
Maybe Hairston is playing a cruel mind game.
It’s a well known fact in baseball that players don’t like to take massive paycuts to play for their former team.
Not everybody is Andy Pettitte.
It’s not armchair psychology. It’s a methodology most teams employ.
Research it and see how many guys, aside from Andy, have done it.
Just last year John Smoltz wouldn’t play for the Braves because of the massive paycut he would have taken in Atlanta. He ended up signing with Boston for roughly the same money as the Atlanta offer.
I wouldn’t use 6 million as the line of demarcation number. It’s more like 4-5 million.
At that number, I can understand the argument.
6? Way too much for a guy with zero current offers.
Nick, the marketplace is cruel. IF what Hairston says really reflects Cashman’s thinking, then if Damon’s price comes down enough for Cash, then they’ll go with him, if not, then they’ll got with someone else. The Yankees likely feel no urgency, with a month to go before ST.
It’s shopping for a commodity.
Or maybe “Sorry, I’m waiting for Damon” is just Casman’s version of “something suddenly came up.”
As I recall, they told Matsui that they were waiting for Damon too.
I guess that sounds nicer than “we’re just not that into you.”
Jerry Hairston Jr is now my favorite person of the day!!!!!
Hairston doesn’t know any more than Damon. It’s not like Cash told Hairston, “we’re not offering you a contract because we are waiting on Damon.”. He’s just speculating. I think he’s right, but it’s not like he has inside info.
Or, as my wife the businesswoman once told me, “things change.”
I always thought that was an interesting way to put things.
Nick in SF
January 20th, 2010 at 8:45 pm
Or maybe “Sorry, I’m waiting for Damon” is just Casman’s version of “something suddenly came up.”
As I recall, they told Matsui that they were waiting for Damon too.
I guess that sounds nicer than “we’re just not that into you.”
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In that case…. let me try it-
Nick in SF….
Sorry, I’m waiting for Damon
Erica, you must be so excited….:)
Joe from Long Island
January 20th, 2010 at 8:50 pm
Erica, you must be so excited….:)
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No, not yet. As much hope as I have, I cannot give my hopes up incorrectly. I will get excited about nothing until Damon is actually resigned.
SJ-
I think you are arguing with me for the sake of arguing.
You say $4-5MM, I say under $6MM. You say Po-TAY-To, I say Po-TAH-to. No big deal.
On the armchair psychology thing, it obviously is armchair psychology. Whether it is accurate in this case who knows, but in Andy’s case he didn’t test the market. In Damon’s case, he apparently has.
The highest offer is the highest offer and it isn’t too hard to understand. If the Yanks are the high bidder, Damon will come around.
Funny. Just for that, I am setting the deadline for submitting entries for WDNHFDLS at one minute ago.
I had this note from the New York Yankees today in my facebook-
Johnny Damon running out of options?Share
Today at 10:34am
Back from a brief mid-winter respite wandering the streets of New York, and still there has been almost no movement on the Johnny Damon front.
Wednesday’s news brings us this article from Bob Klapisch of the Bergen Record, who relays a note from a friend of Damon’s as saying that the outfielder has actually considered retirement with no offers trickling in. Here’s the exact blurb:
A friend of Damon’s recently said, “Johnny is completely in the family mode right now” and has considered that option. It’s still hard to believe that, in the wake of a 24-home run campaign in 2009, and hitting .364 against the Phillies in the Series, Damon actually would quit.
Give him credit for not panicking. In a text message to the New York Times on Tuesday, Damon wrote: “I’m sure things will work out somewhere.” Chances are, however, he never thought he’d be in this kind of predicament so late in the off-season.
The thought is that the Yankees only have about $2 million remaining to address their needs, so Damon – who made $13 million in ’09 and, via Scott Boras, was seeking the same for 2010 – may have overplayed his hand. Our Mark Bowman blogged that the Braves seem an unlikely fit, and Jason Beck notes the Tigers also haven’t expressed interest in Damon.
As this continues to drag on toward Spring Training, perhaps Damon will be forced to buckle at some point and accept far less than he’d ever thought would be waiting for him after a career year. The Yankees would love to have him back, so don’t rule them out, but only at their price.
If not, as I wrote yesterday in the Inbox, I really do believe the Yankees would be just fine with Brett Gardner in left field. Put it this way – they wouldn’t miss the playoffs because of it.
It’s worth noting that Damon also quietly considered retirement after the ’07 season, when his injuries made it miserable and painful to play, but those maladies had softened in the two years that followed. Hey, there is always the wrestling ring if Damon chooses that route.
“Another popular argument I don’t agree with. Damon is not a good left fielder anymore, but he is far from a terrible one. Resist drawing too many conclusions from a one year UZR sample.”
You do not need any UZR data to tell you Damon was very bad in the field last year. There is a reason why Damon has been talked about as a LF/DH for pretty much the entire off-season and why NL teams are scared to sign him. There is also a reason why he only played 128 games in LF last season. A year older, he projects to only get worse. If you want to make the argument he was not that bad and will not be that bad next year at least provide some supporting argument. Your “word” that Damon is not that bad provides nothing to the discussion considering all indications and discussion have been that Damon was quite a poor LF last season. At his age and with his poor play last year he could become a terrible LF very quick.
“It might make some sense in the situation where Damon had not yet tested the market; it doesn’t make any sense where he has tested the market and the offers aren’t there.”
Then you are assuming the Yankees will be the only offer on the table. I have a hard time believing that if his price comes down the Yankees will be his only suitor in all of baseball. A team like the Royals could even get involved at that price. If there are equal offers on the table, it would be much easier for him to go to another team, as Brian Cashman has explained regarding guys like Abreu or Matsui.
“If the investment is relatively small (under $6MM in our example, the Yanks need to get Damon.”
The investment is not small. When you have a 100 win team signing a potential part time player at 6 million is quite a large investment for an extremely marginal return. And the Yankees do not need Damon at all. He is a complete luxury. Needing him would mean they have a hole to fill or are not constructed to win the amount of games they want to. There are no “needs” on 100 win teams. However, like I said before there could very well be a need at mid-season and if they sign Damon now, Hal probably will not want to pay to fill that need.
I would just like to state I would like Damon back, but I could honestly care less if he did not return. Even 5 million for me is pushing it for what I think he is worth to this team. I would be happy to have him back at 3 or maybe 4 million.
Nick in SF
January 20th, 2010 at 8:52 pm
Funny. Just for that, I am setting the deadline for submitting entries for WDNHFDLS at one minute ago.
************
So cruel. Especially since all of my dinner for the next three months will now be served al desko
TylerKepner Update to that Damon post. He insists in a text message, “I want to play.”
about 1 hour ago from web
All Umps should be required to undergo LASIK surgery !
Or is it GWNHFDLN? I can’t remember.
“You say $4-5MM, I say under $6MM. You say Po-TAY-To, I say Po-TAH-to. No big deal.”
—————————
SJ is right. It is not potayto, potahto.
When you have a specified budget you can not just keep saying, who cares what is another million? Then you do not have a budget. They are contradictory notions. We do not know the budget for sure, but to say 1 million is meaningless is not true. This is a business and Hal plans to make money.
Why don’t you go up to your boss and say give me another thousand bucks on my salary. Who cares right?
Nick in SF
January 20th, 2010 at 8:57 pm
Or is it GWNHFDLN? I can’t remember.
**********
GWNHFDLN- but I knew what you meant
Oh- its totally Po-TAY-to
Its not arguing for the sake of arguing.
Do some research and see how many guys have come back to their teams for paycuts exceeding 50%. You won’t find many.
Vlad didn’t do it this off-season. Smoltz and Glavine didn’t do it in Atlanta, Damon didn’t do it in Boston, Abreu didn’t do it last year.
You don’t think the Yankees wouldn’t have loved Bobby Abreu at 5 million dollars or Hideki Matsui at 5-6 million? Guys just don’t like to go back to their teams taking that big of a hit.
GM’s know it and plan accordingly.
Sure, Andy did but, Andy doesn’t think like most ballplayers. He’s an exception to the rule.
Its pretty clear the Yankees aren’t interested in going over 200 million in payroll to start the season. If they were, they have had plenty of chances to do so with Damon (and other targets) this off-season.
That means they have 2-5 million (depending on how they are calculating their AAV’s) to spend.
That’s why 6 million isn’t a workable number for Damon from the Yankees perspective.
For those of you who would want Damon back at 3 or 4 million but not 6, what difference does it make to you? Unless you are part of the yankee’s ownership or one of their CPA’s then I don’t see how that matters unless they are going to reduce ticket prices because of that 2M dollars. It would be for one year only so in the grand scheme of things it affects nothing.
blake
January 20th, 2010 at 9:03 pm
For those of you who would want Damon back at 3 or 4 million but not 6, what difference does it make to you? Unless you are part of the yankee’s ownership or one of their CPA’s then I don’t see how that matters unless they are going to reduce ticket prices because of that 2M dollars. It would be for one year only so in the grand scheme of things it affects nothing.
************
Oooh… I wish I was one of the Yankees CPAs
Are they hiring?
If everybody would go to http://www.johnnydamon.com
there’s a contact tab that allows you to send a message.
No registration is required. Tell him as a Yankees fan what you think. The message goes to him, just type and submit like here.
No one wants to play in Queens.
KenDavidoff #Mets have been notified that Pineiro is going elsewhere.
SI_JonHeyman #angels get pineiro. good job by davidoff. deal is for about $16 mil and 2 years, sources say.
23 minutes ago from web
Reply Retweet
“The problem with your logic is that postseason games are much more closely contested than regular season games, so you can’t extrapolate regular season value across the postseason because they are not equivilant comparisons.”
Did you say there was a problem with my logic????????
Don’t make me angry, you wouldn’t like me when I’m angry.
Okay, kidding… but ARE post-season games more closely contested? Is there any support to that assertion?
It doesn’t really mater whether any of us thinks the “awkward paycut Johnny” theory is armchair pyschology; it’s what Cashman thinks that matters.
Erica, who knows..with all the money going in and out with them I’m sure they have many..maybe you should call and find out. Are you a CPA?
blake
January 20th, 2010 at 9:08 pm
Erica, who knows..with all the money going in and out with them I’m sure they have many..maybe you should call and find out. Are you a CPA?
**************
Yes
Blake,
The issue isn’t, “what difference does it make to us”. Its clear it makes a difference to the Yankees.
That’s the point.
If its up to fans, they would want a 400 million dollar payroll and 15 guys in AAA ready to replace players at the big league level everytime they hit a slump.
The reality is, whether you like it or not, the Yankees have determined what their budget is for the year and aren’t interested (at least not at this time) in increasing it for Damon.
In other words, they have no interest in bailing him out because Scott Boras misread the market.
If they want to come back to the Yankees, its going to be on the Yankees, and not Damon/Boras’ terms.
Its why its difficult for guys to take massive paycuts to return to their teams.
Jerry Hairston: “Brian Cashmans going to get mad at me, but Yanks didn’t make me offer because he’s waiting on Damon price to come down” on XM
twitter.com/jimbowdeniv
Oooh… I wish I was one of the Yankees CPAs
Are they hiring?
——————————————-
Erica-You could team with Leo Bloom and fudge the books, maybe finding enough $$$$ to “produce” Johnny Damon!!!
The Cubs are negotiating with RHP Kiko Calero, reports FOXSports.com’s Jon Paul Morosi.
“It doesn’t really mater whether any of us thinks the “awkward paycut Johnny” theory is armchair pyschology; it’s what Cashman thinks that matters.”
Well we don’t know what Cashman thinks, do we? Or what Damon thinks, for that matter. So it is armchair psychology, obviously.
let’s go yankees-
Damon wasn’t that bad in LF last year. His arm is suspect and he doesn’t have the range he used to, but given his bat (and I’m not expecting him to hit as well in 2010 as in 2009) it is good enough. And you need to look at the last three years from a defensive point of view, not just one, to have enough sample size. Damon’s a good bet.
SJ-
Damon’s case is sui generis. There are very, very few players who have had as good a year as Damon had in in 2009 who receive no offers (apparently) the next year. the difference between $5MM and $6MM is, last I checked, $1MM, which in Yankee land is bumpkis (is that how you spell it?). If the Yanks are the high offer, why wouldn’t he take it? (Don’t forget, this is all a hypothetical – we (or at least I) are assuming he signs for less than %6MM and the Yanks are the high bidder.)
And just for the record, if the Yanks can get him for $4MM, that’s fine with me. I like Damon but in my book he’s no Andy Pettitte.
Mets should have signed Jason Marquis when they had the chance. He lives in Staten Island and would have jumped at the same offer, 2/$15M that he got from Nats and what is being talked about for Pineiro.
That organization is in total disarray. I cannot understand what they’re doing there. They do not appear to have any plan, and merely go day to day. I’m thinking they will spend a good chunk of the year in last place in that division. Even Nats have improved.
January 20th, 2010 at 9:14 pm
Jerry Hairston: “Brian Cashmans going to get mad at me, but Yanks didn’t make me offer because he’s waiting on Damon price to come down” on XM
———————————————————–
Have been saying this all along.Right now there appears to be 2 roster spots open, both OF’s. Damon is preferably the 1st choice and another RH OF the other, figuring 14 players and 11 pitchers.
It wouldn’t make sense the other way.
I’m out of the thread, but I just wanted to say enjoy the show Chad. I’ve seen Robert Randolph multiple times, and he always rocks the place. The slide guitar is one of the coolest sounding instruments IMO, and RR is one of the best (him and Derek Trucks).
Dear Jerry Hairston,
Maybe the Yankees realize that you stink.
Love.
Rich
“Damon wasn’t that bad in LF last year”
I do not know where you are getting that he was not that bad last year. He was bordering on very bad and I think most would agree on that. Again, if you would like to provide something that says otherwise that would be welcome, but just saying he “wasn’t that bad” is simply not true.
“And you need to look at the last three years from a defensive point of view, not just one, to have enough sample size. Damon’s a good bet.”
This is ridiculous. You do not look at the last 3 years for 37 year old OF. Those other 2 years are as meaningful as his data for when he was 25.
The following are the players that have contracts for 2010, and are part of the 40-man roster. Note that all salaries listed are using the Annual Average Value of their contracts…not what the player may actually make in 2010 (for example, Jeter will actually be paid $21 million, but the AAV of his contract is $18.9 million).
Pitchers
Brackman – $1.1375m
Burnett – $16.5m
Gaudin – $2.95
Logan – $.59
Marte – $4m
Mitre – $.85m
Pettitte – $11.75m
Rivera – $15m
Sabathia – $23m
Vazquez – $11.5m
Catchers
Posada – $13.1m
Infielders
Cano – $7.5m
Jeter – $18.9m
Johnson – $5.5m
Miranda – $.5175m
Rodriguez – $27.5m
Teixeira – $22.5m
Outfielders
Granderson – $6.05m
Swisher – $5.35m
Total: $194.195 million
This leaves 21 more spots on the 40-man roster. But keep in mind that the league minimum salary is $400,000, therefore at least $8.4 million more dollars will be added to the payroll (which would mean the current team payroll is at least $202.595 million).
“You like the word dubious don’t you.”
Guilty.
“It would be a one year deal, therefore after this year it goes away..there would be no 207 + 7 more or whatever..”
You csn’t have a budget for THIS year?
“So you are saying that of the Yankees were to sign Damon to a one year deal for 5 or 6 million then you would call that a mistake?”
I still you’re missing the point Blake. I’m respecting the parameters of the terms the Yankees are setting, supported by the conclusion that Damon or no Damon will make little difference either way.
If the Yankees decide they want him, I’m fine with that. If they decide their limit is their limit, I’m fine with that too.
My main point is I just have a hard time wrapping my head around that fans think Damon (at this point) is significantly improves their chances that they can’t respect the budget they’ve set, considering it’s so much greater than any other team.
“last I checked, $1MM, which in Yankee land is bumpkis (is that how you spell it?)”
So is $5m, but they aren’t giving that away either.
The Yankees want to keep their payroll as low as is feasible to parry against the luxury tax Nazis who hope to enact a more onerous Yankee tax in the next CBA.
Get Damon and with what’s left (1m or so) grab another.
By that point, you can probably get a RH OF type at next to nothing.
Remember the payroll jumps next year with Jeter, Mo and Lee?
Sj,
I understand what you’re saying, but when the Yankees charge 3x the average for tickets prices and we know as fans that they are raking in the cash with the new stadium and the TV deals, its a little irritating that they would quibble over a couple million dollars when Hal could probably find that in the couch cushions of his office. Not complaing, because they already give us the highest payroll in baseball..just saying.
That 400 million dollar payroll sounds good
.
I actually wish the Yankees would have a $150m payroll because it would force them to rely more on mLs, and I get my primary enjoyment from watching homegrown players develop…although, obviously, the move can’t be made in one year.
“Well we don’t know what Cashman thinks, do we?”
Hasn’t he talked about giving some amout of credence to the theory that’s tough for a player to take a steep paycut to return to his team?
Recently?
“The Yankees want to keep their payroll as low as is feasible to parry against the luxury tax Nazis who hope to enact a more onerous Yankee tax in the next CBA.”
Maybe, but they’re going to take a deeper luxury tax hit anyway. That die was cast last offseason.
“Maybe, but they’re going to take a deeper luxury tax hit anyway. That die was cast last offseason.”
Then why don’t they spend more?
“I actually wish the Yankees would have a $150m payroll because it would force them to rely more on mLs, and I get my primary enjoyment from watching homegrown players develop…although, obviously, the move can’t be made in one year.”
They can do it, all they need to do is let Jeter, Mo and Pettitte go next offseason while not signing any major free agents. The year after it will be Posada’s turn to say goodbye replaced by Montero/Romine.
Rich in NJ_
As long as it’s a one year deal with Eamon, the next CBA doesn’t matter, does it? Whether the Yanks give Damon $3MM or $6MM in 2010 isn’t going to change any minds in 2011, is it?
let’s go Yanks-
One year’s worth of UZR is meaningless. You want to believe it is, fine with me, but from a statistical point of view you are wrong. I’m basing my judgemnet on Damon’s defense based on my eyes and how he has done the last few years – I see about 25 games a year in person and watch most of the others on TV.
So the question is, how bad will Damon be in 2011? From a range point of view, he isn’t an Abreu, it isn’t like balls are bouncing past him for doubles and triples. The real problem is his arm – that doesn’t result in that many runs allowed anyway. I think he’s a good gamble when you take it all into consideration.
SJ44-
What were we arguing about anyway? I forget. Oh yeah, given that neither of us have any special insight into Damon’s psyche I’ll go with the dollars.
Luxury tax for 2010 was raised from that salary above 170M from 162M.
“Then why don’t they spend more?”
Perhaps, the owners need the profits for losses in their other business ventures or some other business related reason.
“I actually wish the Yankees would have a $150m payroll because it would force them to rely more on mLs, and I get my primary enjoyment from watching homegrown players develop…although, obviously, the move can’t be made in one year.”
Where for 2010 would you substitute a minor leaguer to knock $50 million off the payroll?
“its a little irritating that they would quibble over a couple million dollars when Hal could probably find that in the couch cushions of his office.”
Good gracious, the basis of your complaint is that the Yankees are willing to spend $200m. This is the SOURCE of your frustration.
Something is wrong here…
Doreen January 20th, 2010 at 8:04 pm
mick -
I had my first baby in 1987 and my second in 1989. My life for the next several years was filled with Barney, Sesame Street, Raffi, Parachute Express, pre-school, kindergarten, brownies, PTA, etc. I paid zero attention to baseball. My husband had always been a Yankee fan and so during that time, it was always the Yankees on tv if there was game on. (He, too, was mainly a casual fan at that time.) When I was ready to turn my atention to things I liked, I found I didn’t know any of the Mets players but all of the Yankees players. So, there ya go.
————————————————-
Doreen
That is actually an interesting explanation of how that could happen. There was a chasm. Lucky for you the Yankees were there to fill it.
Stuckey,
We don’t know what those parameters are. The Yankees have never given exact numbers on what their budget is meanings thay there is wiggle room in it.
I want them to re-sign Damon but I think they will be Ok if they don’t (although ill be sad for Erica). If they can get him cheap then its good value I think.. There is nothing else to talk about which is why we keep going around in circles about JD…can’t wait for ST.
Wave Your Hat
“As long as it’s a one year deal with Eamon, the next CBA doesn’t matter, does it? Whether the Yanks give Damon $3MM or $6MM in 2010 isn’t going to change any minds in 2011, is it?”
The anti-capitalist owners will use multi-year data to make their point.
Blake,
Ticket prices have nothing to do with it.
Ticket prices are a byproduct of supply and demand.
It’s not like the Yankees are the Marlins here.
Their payroll is 30% higher than their next closest competitor.
I can’t lose a lot of sleep over some fans wanting them to spend more money.
Especially when a fair amount of the money ends up in competitors pockets via the luxury tax.
See what happens when you are desperate, and spend 120M on a player nobody was bidding on, you make desperate cheap moves? The Cardinals are in negotiations with Jim Edmonds (39) and retired since 2008.
He’s good friends with McGwire. I have visions of roid parties in the the bathroom stalls!
Jim Edmonds coming bck to platoon CF/1B what a joke. HE WANTS TO PICK UP 18 RUNS TO GET TO 400.
crawdaddy
“Perhaps, the owners need the profits for losses in their other business ventures or some other business related reason.”
I guess that’s possible, but their profits have reportedly increased dramatically in NYS, and the NYY and YES are their primary business.
Nick in SF-
Do you really put that much credence in everything Cash states publicly?
But seriously, I’m sure it is a tough spot Damon is in, and I do sympathize with him. But at the end of the day, is he really going to be happier relocating to, say, Kansas City, to play for $4MM, than playing for NY? I just don’t think so.
Stuckey,
Simmer down suzyn..there’s no need for a goodness gracious .I’m not upset. I just don’t think they should let a couple million dollars (if that ends up being the difference between signing and not signing Damon) make the difference..that’s all.
“Especially when a fair amount of the money ends up in competitors pockets via the luxury tax.”
Luxury tax isn’t distributed to clubs.
pat
I wrote:
“I actually wish the Yankees would have a $150m payroll because it would force them to rely more on mLs, and I get my primary enjoyment from watching homegrown players develop…although, obviously, the move can’t be made in one year.”
You wrote:
“Where for 2010 would you substitute a minor leaguer to knock $50 million off the payroll?”
Reread my last sentence. It can’t be done in one year.
“Their payroll is 30% higher than their next closest competitor.”
It’s been that way over the length of this current CBA is not moreso during some seasons. Which is why I think the die is cast for further punitive luxury tax increases against the Yankees in the next CBA.
Rich in NJ-
A $3MM difference (in our example, the difference between Damon getting $3MM or $6MM) in the Yankee payroll over multiple years is a rounding error, it won’t add one one iota to any point about the luxury tax which might be made.
“We don’t know what those parameters are. The Yankees have never given exact numbers on what their budget is meanings thay there is wiggle room in it.”
Didn’t they say they have $2m to spend on a RH OF?
“There is nothing else to talk about which is why we keep going around in circles about JD…can’t wait for ST.”
But I’m not going in circles about Johnny Damon. I’m trying to get you to realize how ridiculous it is to be frustrated with the Yankees payroll, which is EXACTLY what you said you were.
Wave,
Brian Cashman himself has said numerous times players don’t like taking huge paycuts to return to their teams.
If you don’t want to believe it, take it up with him.
Or, find 5 guys not named Andy Pettitte who have taken 50% or more paycuts in the last 5 years to return to their teams.
““I actually wish the Yankees would have a $150m payroll because it would force them to rely more on mLs, and I get my primary enjoyment from watching homegrown players develop…although, obviously, the move can’t be made in one year.””
Why in the world would you wish that? Considering what the Yanks charge me for my season tickets, I have no desire at all for them to reduce their payroll. It’s not like they’d give me a rebate or anything.
WYH
“A $3MM difference (in our example, the difference between Damon getting $3MM or $6MM) in the Yankee payroll over multiple years is a rounding error, it won’t add one one iota to any point about the luxury tax which might be made.”
So what’s your explanation for their apparent interest in saving a few million.
mick -
It was like a baseball rebirth!
“I guess that’s possible, but their profits have reportedly increased dramatically in NYS, and the NYY and YES are their primary business.”
Rich,
Let’s remember they have partners outside of the family in the Yankees and YES network so it’s anybody’s guess as to what’s cooking behind the scenes in regard to the Steinbrenner family or their partners financial situation beyond the New York Yankees-related investment. I’m just raising a possibility because a lot of rich folks took a bloodbath over the last couple of years.
“Do you really put that much credence in everything Cash states publicly?”
No, only some things.
Do you really think that everything that Cashman states publically is subterfuge?
Pat,
I meant revenue sharing.
It’s not just Cashman saying it, look at the data.
Aside from Andy and Jason Varitek, I can’t think of another player who has taken a 50+% paycut to return to their team.
It’s just not something we see in today’s game.
WYH
“Why in the world would you wish that? Considering what the Yanks charge me for my season tickets, I have no desire at all for them to reduce their payroll. It’s not like they’d give me a rebate or anything.”
I have already explained why, but to amplify the point: I would rather watch players develop from the time they are drafted until they become productive MLers than watch a rotisserie team of other franchise’s stars.
If they won the same amount of games, would you really object to spending the same amount of money, or do you make that decision based on their payroll?
“One year’s worth of UZR is meaningless. You want to believe it is, fine with me, but from a statistical point of view you are wrong. I’m basing my judgemnet on Damon’s defense based on my eyes and how he has done the last few years – I see about 25 games a year in person and watch most of the others on TV.”
————————
I am sorry, but when did I ever mention UZR? There has not been a single time in this argument where I even said the letters UZR.
And like I said before, the only thing that matters is last year, given his age. The year before when he was a very good LF is absolutely meaningless. He declined badly last year and it was obvious. You seem to be the only one living in the universe where he was not that good. He absolutely is Bobby Abreu from a range factor at the moment, and he is likely to get worse
Why else would the Yankees have viewed him as mainly a DH at the beginning of the off-season? Why else has no one offered him a spot as a LF?
not that *bad*
SJ44-
I am sure players don’t like taking huge paycuts. But I notice Cashman said that in the context of whether the Yanks would sign Damon – so he has an ulterior motive.
Look, I don’t know if the Yanks will sign Damon or not. But if he signs elsewhere, it is very convenient to take the position that Cash is taking. I’d take it myself – it deflects criticism and it is hard to disprove a negative.
But Damon will be worth more than $6MM (or have it your way, worth more than $4-5MM) next year. And the Yanks could use him, IMHO.
“And like I said before, the only thing that matters is last year, given his age.”
Here’s our disagreement. IMO, your statement is incorrect.
Sj,
I love the way the are spending money now. They are spending smarter than they have in quite some time and my argument has nothing to do with me wanting them to spend more money or raise the payroll. I just think payroll flexibility for the future is much more important than going over budget a little for one year if it makes the team better. I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens with JD, the Yanks have some really smart people running the show now though so I trust them to make the right call.
I think there is a chance that Damon’s poor defense last season was at least partially a consequence of adjusting to the park effects of NYS.
Cashman took the same position with Abreu last year. He knew Abreu wouldn’t play in NY for 5 million.
Damon is in the same boat.
When a team doesn’t offer arbitration, the player knows the paycut will be too steep for their liking.
Only difference is, in this case, Cash made a significant 2 yr offer to Johnny and was rejected.
Once that happened, and there are no other offers on the table, a 6 million dollar offer makes no sense at this time.
“I have already explained why, but to amplify the point: I would rather watch players develop from the time they are drafted until they become productive MLers than watch a rotisserie team of other franchise’s stars.
If they won the same amount of games, would you really object to spending the same amount of money, or do you make that decision based on their payroll?”
Rich in NJ-
Look, that’s a subjective judgment – if that’s the way you feel then for you, you are right. However, the Yanks are full of other teams’ one-time stars, so does one more or less really matter? (If you think it does, I respect that.)
As to your second point, I think that’s assuming what you want to prove. My concern is that BG isn’t good enough, or CG doesn’t hit lefties, and for $6MM (OK, SJ, for you $4MM-$5MM) Damon is good insurance.
Damon would have to meet with Cash in an attempt to convince him that he could handle the paycut, and probably also have to convince some of his veteran star teammates of the same thing.
Wave Your Hat
January 20th, 2010 at 9:51 pm
“And like I said before, the only thing that matters is last year, given his age.”
Here’s our disagreement. IMO, your statement is incorrect.
————————-
How is it incorrect?
Players at his age decline rapidly and very few if any ever recover.
You continue to just change your argument without every saying more than “Damon is a good bet defensively because I say so.” You also continue to ignore my question about how the Yankees have viewed Damon as primarily a DH for months now.
Find me some statistics, a scout, anyone who has said in the past year that Damon is even “not that bad” of an OF right now or will be next year.
Find me even a single 37 year old OF who had a bounce back year defensively.
I imagine you are going to have some serious trouble finding those things or answering my questions which is probably why you keep avoiding them.
Interesting note about Preston Wilson wanting to make a comeback after being out for 2 and a half years with knee and shoulder injuries. It wouldn’t hurt to offer a ST invite just to see what’s left. He’s still just 35. He was a pretty solid defensive outfielder with power and speed. Other than injuries, his biggest issue was strikeouts.
SJ-
I am fine if the Yanks offer Johnny less than $6MM. This isn’t a replay of our Pettitte argument.
All I’m saying is, the Yanks are making a mistake if they aren’t the high offer under $6MM. Let me spell that out. If Team X offers Damon $5.8MM, the Yanks ought to offer him $5.9MM. If Team X offers him $2MM, we ought to offer him $3MM.
Then we can see what happens.
“But I’m not going in circles about Johnny Damon. I’m trying to get you to realize how ridiculous it is to be frustrated with the Yankees payroll, which is EXACTLY what you said you were.”
I am NOT frustrated or UPSET about the Yankees payroll. Their payroll is fine and is the highest in baseball. YOU take ME saying that I think that if they can get Damon for a bargain price then THEY should sign him and turn that into me complaining about the payroll.
(notice the all caps in strategic places for effect).
WYH
“Look, that’s a subjective judgment – if that’s the way you feel then for you, you are right. However, the Yanks are full of other teams’ one-time stars, so does one more or less really matter? (If you think it does, I respect that.)”
I was merely reacting to the comment that most fans would want the Yankees to spend more. I know that what I want is unlikely to happen, despite Cash’s prior assertions that he shared that goal.
As long as they are going to spend, I just want them to spend on quality.
“As to your second point, I think that’s assuming what you want to prove. My concern is that BG isn’t good enough, or CG doesn’t hit lefties, and for $6MM (OK, SJ, for you $4MM-$5MM) Damon is good insurance.”
Granted, it’s a risk, and if Damon can convince Cash that he is comfortable playing for $5m (or whatever), I hope they sign him, but the risk can be cured by the trading deadline, if that proves to be necessary.
Just a guess, but, it sounds like Hairston was just assuming why he wasn’t offered a deal by Cashman and he was just shooting his mouth off.
KenDavidoff Brian Cashman says it’s “right” that he never made an offer to J. Hairston Jr., but “not right” that he is waiting for Damon’s price to drop
21 minutes ago from web
Let’s go Yankees-
This is beginning to get annoying. I don’t believe my argument has changed at all.
And I suspect neither of us knows any scouts personally. If you do, list them and I will apologize. Until then, if you are basing your judgment on one year I am telling you I disagree with you.
8:47pm: Yankees’ GM Brian Cashman shot down Hairston’s comments, tweets Ken Davidoff of Newsday.
But Wave, the Yankees have no interest in getting into a bidding war for him. That’s why they pulled their offer once Scott rejected it and had no interest in their counteroffer.
They don’t need Damon as insurance for Gardner. That’s an expensive insurance policy.
They can just sign one of the RH hitters on the market for considerably less money for such insurance.
Again, Damon has to call Cash and say I want to play here; money doesn’t matter; what kind of contract can you give me?
“Again, Damon has to call Cash and say I want to play here; money doesn’t matter; what kind of contract can you give me?”
Correct, if he does that then its a sign that he has swallowed his ego and maybe they can work something out.
The Damon horse has not only been beat to death. It’s been pulverized.
And unlike Mr. Ed he still ain’t talkin.
“They don’t need Damon as insurance for Gardner. That’s an expensive insurance policy.
They can just sign one of the RH hitters on the market for considerably less money for such insurance.”
SJ-
Here’s where we may disagree. I do think the Yanks need an insurance policy for Gardner (or Granderson not hitting lefties). And if they can get Damon cheap (I say under $6MM, you say under $5MM, I won’t argue), then that isn’t “expensive” insurance, IMO.
As to the RH hitters, there aren’t that many good ones left – they all come with drawbacks. Nady? Maybe he’s not 100%, and it depends on his price compared to Damon. Reed Johnson? He’s strictly a platoon guy, it could cause problems when they bring in a righty to face him (and he’s not that good anyway). Thames? Defensively challenged. Once Damon falls below $6MM, there’s just not that much difference in price to offset the offensive gain from Damon.
“If everybody would go to http://www.johnnydamon.com
there’s a contact tab that allows you to send a message.
No registration is required. Tell him as a Yankees fan what you think. The message goes to him, just type and submit like here.”
Done. My message was:
“Johnny, you’re my favorite baseball player. I like to think of you as a Pretend Drinking Buddy (PDB). I think you were the real MVP of the World Series — Matsui didn’t even play much in Philly! As much as I’d like to see you come back to the Yankees, I think it would be wrong for yuo to take a penny less than they paid you last year. You’re Johnny Damon and the Yankees are the richest team in the majors! Everyone else is making $$$$, why are they trying to short-change you???? Don’t let them rip you off!”
Nick, LOL.
I believe this will be the first year that the luxury tax will be reduced by expenses incurred for the new stadium. I believe things like interest costs is a direct deduction against the luxury tax.
Hey – now that JHJ has left for SD….
…what about getting Johnny Damon as an outfielder for the Yankees ?
He’s a free agent.
Any thoughts on that idea ?
“My concern is that BG isn’t good enough…”
Good enough for what?
Good enough for the Yankees to make the post-season with him at their leftfielder?
“I am NOT frustrated or UPSET about the Yankees payroll. Their payroll is fine and is the highest in baseball. YOU take ME saying that I think that if they can get Damon for a bargain price then THEY should sign him and turn that into me complaining about the payroll.”
My bad, you didn’t say “frustrating”, you said “irritating”, along with “quibble”, as if a team willing to spend $200 could.
You’re irritated at the Yankees payroll.
I stand corrected.
“My bad, you didn’t say “frustrating”, you said “irritating”, along with “quibble”, as if a team willing to spend $200 could.”
What I said was in relation to Damon, not the payroll in general. So yea, you stand corrected.
I can bargain shop with the best of them.
But sometimes when something makes sense, and I “know” I am buying quality, I don’t mind paying a little more for it. Because I am getting what I want.
Last year Andy Petite, this year Johnny Damon.
As for the pay cut— No way Damon is able to play along side Jeter, Tex, Alex, Po, etc..and be a disgruntled, negative influence. No way.
“What I said was in relation to Damon, not the payroll in general.”
Johnny Damon’s salary would be added the payroll. You can’t separate the two.
Payroll isn’t high enough for your tastes. Can’t get around that.
Nick in SF
January 20th, 2010 at 10:19 pm
“If everybody would go to http://www.johnnydamon.com
there’s a contact tab that allows you to send a message.
No registration is required. Tell him as a Yankees fan what you think. The message goes to him, just type and submit like here.”
Done. My message was:
“Johnny, you’re my favorite baseball player. I like to think of you as a Pretend Drinking Buddy (PDB). I think you were the real MVP of the World Series — Matsui didn’t even play much in Philly! As much as I’d like to see you come back to the Yankees, I think it would be wrong for yuo to take a penny less than they paid you last year. You’re Johnny Damon and the Yankees are the richest team in the majors! Everyone else is making $$$$, why are they trying to short-change you???? Don’t let them rip you off!”
************
Hahahahahaha.
You just don’t want to lose to me. I am soooo on to you.
And on that note, I must get into bed. I need sleep so I can repeat the same exact day again tomorrow! Woohoo! Good night Yankee people
How many Damons could fit on the head of a pin?
“As for the pay cut— No way Damon is able to play along side Jeter, Tex, Alex, Po, etc..and be a disgruntled, negative influence. No way.”
Hypothetical – Johnny Damon has a really bad April (for sake of argument, similar to his Sept. 2009). Joe Girardi wants to see what Gardner can do for a month.
Does Scott Boras take the benching of Johnny Damon quietly into the night?
“But sometimes when something makes sense, and I “know” I am buying quality, I don’t mind paying a little more for it. Because I am getting what I want.”
————————
A lot of people are saying things like this or along the lines of this.
Problem is you are not looking at it in the full context in relation to the ton of other quality the Yankees already have. They already have what they want. They have a 100 win team. A team that projects to be 5-6 wins better then any other team in baseball.
If I have $500 to spend on a bunch of new pairs of jeans for example. Lets say, I go out and spend $450 of it on 4 pairs of top quality jeans. I only have $50 left, and another pair of jeans would be nice, but it is not necessary. I already have a closet full of nice quality jeans, so if I even do spend that money I am sure not going to go over my budget. It makes no sense for me to do so, because I already have what I want.
The Yankees have what they want. You cannot evaluate Damon’s price in a vacuum like he is the only guy in the clubhouse. He is just a part of the big picture and since the Yankees already have what they want, it makes no sense to go over-budget.
Boras doesn’t matter.
Damon looking Jeter and Po in the face, thats what matters. Like I said no way.
“Johnny Damon’s salary would be added the payroll. You can’t separate the two.
Payroll isn’t high enough for your tastes. Can’t get around that.
No, you can’t separate the two but it would only affect the payroll for this year only and wouldn’t hurt their flexibility for next year. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see what Cashman decides to do. Obviously you aren’t getting my point and as usual are twisting words to fit your argument.
Erica, what I really don’t want is to lose BOTH bets to you. At this point I wouldn’t mind if Damon and Wang end up on the same team.
Jerry Hairston is a better bench player then Ramiro Pena. He would have cost $1.5 million, but I am always willing to pay more for “quality”
What is $1.5 million to the Yankees right?
It’s amazing to me how little most here value Damon’s talents. The guy is on the borderline of guys who’ll just miss the Hall Fame and he’s coming off maybe his best season. He’s as good a 2-hitter as there is in the sport and he does every single thing there is to do at the plate.
He can handle NY, he’s answered the bell in the playoffs, he’s not afraid of Fenway, he’s always been a solid teammate and citizen, he’s available on a short term deal. Where is the argument exactly?
Sure he struggled in the field last year, but he still has his legs and to think overnight he lost the ability to track balls is silly. Yes, he throws like a 9 year old girl, but considering that the guy who’ll repalce him throws like an 11 year old girl, I’m not sure that’s a deal killer.
And let’s stop with the budget hand-wringing. Anyone who writes a budget that doesn’t have 3% wiggle room in it should be beaten bloody with their own calculator.
I believe this is all bluster and I’ll be shocked if Damon isn’t back. There is no way, none, that we go into the season with Gardner as the LF and Jamie friggin Hoffman as the 4th outfielder.
“No, you can’t separate the two but it would only affect the payroll for this year only and wouldn’t hurt their flexibility for next year.”
Why is this year not relevant?
“Obviously you aren’t getting my point and as usual are twisting words to fit your argument.”
“its a little irritating that they would quibble over a couple million dollars when Hal could probably find that in the couch cushions of his office.”
Untwist ‘em…
UpState says:
January 20, 2010 at 10:30 pm
Hey – now that JHJ has left for SD….
…what about getting Johnny Damon as an outfielder for the Yankees ?
He’s a free agent.
Any thoughts on that idea ?
——
Great idea! I can’t believe no one else is suggesting this.
So when Cash says he’s not waiting for Damon’s price to drop, he could be telling the truth.
He could be waiting for it to bottom out…
Hoffa
January 20th, 2010 at 11:10 pm
UpState says:
January 20, 2010 at 10:30 pm
Hey – now that JHJ has left for SD….
…what about getting Johnny Damon as an outfielder for the Yankees ?
He’s a free agent.
Any thoughts on that idea ?
——
Great idea! I can’t believe no one else is suggesting this.
——————————-
Now if we can get some input on the pros & cons of re-signing this Johnny Damon guy….we could have Chad start a new thread !!!
We can do it !!!
“And let’s stop with the budget hand-wringing. Anyone who writes a budget that doesn’t have 3% wiggle room in it should be beaten bloody with their own calculator.”
Some of you ought to perhaps consider that maybe the Yankees went way over budget LAST year…
“its a little irritating that they would quibble over a couple million dollars when Hal could probably find that in the couch cushions of his office.”
Untwist ‘em…
again this is in relation to Damon only. That doesn’t mean that I’m unhappy with the Payroll or think the Yankees should spend more money in general. Who is to say that they couldn’t fit Damon into their budget? We don’t know exactly what the budget is or what Damon’s price will end up being.
“And let’s stop with the budget hand-wringing. Anyone who writes a budget that doesn’t have 3% wiggle room in it should be beaten bloody with their own calculator.”
————————
How do you know they are not already at the budget and the 2 million Cash said is available for LF is not the wiggle room you describe?
How do you know they are not saving their “wiggle room” for mid-season when they may actually have a need (which they do not right now)?
lets go yankees
They have to play the game. It’s not a matter of spending x dollars means you have a 100 win team. But even if it was, let’s not forget which team we are talking about. And I do not for one minute, think Cash is done spending.
IMO there are just too many offensive question marks for the entire outfield. Particularly against lefties. And no depth at all. Damon adds depth to the outfield and to the DH spot.
I also don’t buy the he’s washed up argument either. He can help the Yankees more than any other available free agent.
“And let’s stop with the budget hand-wringing. Anyone who writes a budget that doesn’t have 3% wiggle room in it should be beaten bloody with their own calculator.”
Anyone who pretends to know what their “wiggle room” is probably doesn’t know how to use a calculator.
“again this is in relation to Damon only. That doesn’t mean that I’m unhappy with the Payroll or think the Yankees should spend more money in general.”
I honestly don’t understand how “Damon only” and “more money in general” changes anything I (or you) have said.
You’re saying you’d be irritated if they won’t spend more than they want to on a player, and have named him specifically.
Have I suggested otherwise?
Name could be Damon, Holliday, Halladay, Figgins, Lackey, whomever… the bottom line is the payroll isn’t high enough. Identifying a specific player doesn’t change that.
Some parents let their kid eat a pound of candy Halloween night. The kid asks for one more mini-bag of M&M’s before bed. The parents saying no. The kid responds he’s irritated that they’d quibble over one little bag of M&M’s.
I’m not sure the kid saying, “my irritations is in relation to the M&M’s only and not the amount of candy my parent’s let me eat in general” really makes much difference.
“Who is to say that they couldn’t fit Damon into their budget?”
No one. But you said you’d be irritated if they can’t or won’t.
Didn’t you?
stuckey/lets go yankees,
If you believe the reports, last year we gave CC somewhere in the neighborhood of 60M more than any other team was offering. You really believe that now, after winning a WS, our margins are so tight that 6M is going to make a difference one way or the other? I do not.
I stand by what I’ve said all along. I’ll be shocked if he’s not back.
“I believe this will be the first year that the luxury tax will be reduced by expenses incurred for the new stadium. I believe things like interest costs is a direct deduction against the luxury tax.”
____________________________________________________________
You are confusing the “Luxury Tax” on payroll with “Revenue Sharing”. These are SEPERATE taxes.
The debt payments on the new stadium reduce the Yankees profits, and that will reduce the amount of money they pay in Revenue Sharing.
Luxury Tax is solely based on payroll, and is NOT affected by the cost of the new stadium.
“If you believe the reports, last year we gave CC somewhere in the neighborhood of 60M more than any other team was offering. You really believe that now, after winning a WS, our margins are so tight that 6M is going to make a difference one way or the other? I do not.”
—————————-
Late on Saturday though Jon Heyman added a unique twist to the story, nearly six months later. He reported via Twitter: “very late scoop — turns out the angels made a $140-million offer to CC. so yanks were wise to go from 140 to 161 mil.”
http://riveraveblues.com/2009/.....-cc-12155/
Try again.
“our margins are so tight that 6M is going to make a difference one way or the other? I do not.”
——————–
“Sherman notes that the Yanks had agreed to a trade for Mike Cameron last July, but Little Stein wouldn’t take on the extra $5.5M in salary. Maybe people should stop blowing off the concept of a payroll limit after all.”
http://riveraveblues.com/2010/.....eld-22300/
Why did 5.5 million matter 6 months ago?
“IMO there are just too many offensive question marks for the entire outfield.”
I’ll point out again that MLB rules don’t distinguish where your offense comes from. “Offensive question marks for the outfield” is an irrelevant, made-up distinction.
What’s really ridiculous about all the belly-aching about the outfield is if you simply just had Robinson Cano and Brett Gardner switch bodies like Freaky Friday or something, not one would be making a peep.
When one’s a slave to a notion of what a “corner outfielder” typically is, and worse a slave to it in a vacuum, ignoring the bigger, more important picture, one should really consider re-examining their thought process.
This payroll talk is almost as bad as the A-Rod talk I use to have to read during the off season.
Randyhater, I have one simple question for you:
What should the Yankees budget be?
Please don’t answer something like “I don’t know but $6m shouldn’t be a factor.”
It’s a fair, straightforward question.
“Offensive question marks for the outfield” is an irrelevant, made-up distinction.”
Except when the discussion is about Damon.
When one’s a slave to a notion of what a “corner outfielder” typically is, and worse a slave to it in a vacuum, ignoring the bigger, more important picture, one should really consider re-examining their thought process.
The real question I have is why are you such a damn……… Oh ok I will reconsider my thought process.
OK you are still an idiot.
lets go,
Sorry, I don’t put much weight in contemporaneous Heyman tweets, much less ones that come 6 months after the fact.
I trust Sherman pieces a lot more but doesn’t the timing of the one you mention seem like very convenient color for the “we’re so frugal” narrative Cash is now spinning?
stuckey,
I don’t know what their revenues and expenses are any more than you do. But when you look at the money we’ve flung about over the past decade, to think that we’ll lose an All Star caliber outfielder who was a key component in last year’s championship over 4M (the diffrence between what Cash claims we have to spend and the 6M figure being bandied about here) is ludicrous, especially when you consider that 4M is approx. 2% of our current payroll.
Who cares if it’s 2%? At some point there is a limit. Why is that so hard to understand?
“Except when the discussion is about Damon.”
Damon would bat in a order the features 9 offensive players. There is no sub-section of the line-up for 3 outfielders. MLB rules don’t offer an advantage or disadvantage according to where your offensive players play the field.
How the OF specifically plays offensively is meaningless.
Why do some fact so resent being given simple, irrefutable facts?
“I don’t know what their revenues and expenses are any more than you do. But when you look at the money we’ve flung about over the past decade, to think that we’ll lose an All Star caliber outfielder who was a key component in last year’s championship over 4M (the diffrence between what Cash claims we have to spend and the 6M figure being bandied about here) is ludicrous, especially when you consider that 4M is approx. 2% of our current payroll.”
Maybe Hal Steinbrenner allowed Brian Cashman to go 20% over budget LAST off-season?
The inability to answer the simple question SHOULD illustrate a simple point – we don’t know if we’re talking 2% over budget. All we know is the figure is 2% over current spending, which is not at all the same thing.
I think its because of the luxury tax they are going to pay.
Damon isn’t anywhere near an All Star caliber OF.Cashman said going into the hotstove, that he wouldn’t allow what was done in postseason, to influence his decisions of what’s best for the team. Damon stole 2 bases in 9 seconds, but Yankees lost that game anyway!
At this point, how much money will JD get from some other team? I’d say he’ll be lucky to get $5 million. Even $4 wouldn’t surprise me. He’s coming off a great season, but teams don’t pay for last year. His projected 2010 results aren’t that great, based on a longer period and including the effect of aging and the loss of Yankee Stadium.
If Johnny personnally went to Cashman today and offered to play for $4.5 million, I think he might have a deal. But, as far as I can tell, Johnny still believes he’s going to get considerably more than that.
The Yanks are looking for good-fielding, right-handed outfielder. JD doesn’t fit their needs and he’s overpriced.
Stuckey,
You have said yourself that the Yankees should sign another outfielder for depth.
If they can get Damon for slightly more than they would be paying a career platoon player or a high injury risk player then don’t you think that’s something they should consider? I think they should, if you don’t then that’s fine but please stop taking that opinion and turning it into something that its not.
Carpe diem,
The Yankees actually won Game 4 (the game Damon stole the bases) if I remember correctly and likely would have lost that game and maybe the series without him.
another day, another Damon discussion. I get up every am and turn on sports center to see if Damon has signed somewhere and if they will have a Yankee player in the opening shots but I am always disappointed on both counts.
BTW carpe diem- the Yankees did win that game when Johnny stole the 2 bases.
Kate, I wish there was something else to talk about but there just isn’t..March can’t get here fast enough.
Blake
I know…I wish he would sign somewhere, hopefully back w/ the Yankees…I am sure he is thinking the same thing.
good morning,
we are another day to signing mr damon to a 1 yr contract.
Kate,
I’d say you’re right..the longer he waits the less he’s gonna get though so I’m not sure what he and Boras are doing.
closer….
Blake,
What part of, “he has no current offers” do you not understand?
Do you think Damon or Boras wouldn’t sign with somebody right now if they had an offer on the table? Its January 21.
You can’t sign with anybody if nobody has offered you a job.
That’s their problem at the present time.
Despite the pleas from people for them to bid against themselves, the Yankees have chosen not to do so on this one.
SJ,
I know, that’s why if he wants to play next year they to become proactive and let teams know they have lowered their demands.
Wouldn’t you agree that if they continue to sit back and wait that his price is going to keep dropping further and further as more teams fill their needs?
It has nothing to do with them being “proactive”. It has to do with just about every team in baseball reaching their budget limits AND the glut of players still on the market.
There is no reason for a team to pay him what he wants right now. He doesn’t fit most teams’ needs at this time.
His value, and something Scott GROSSLY mismanaged was greater to the Yankees than any other team.
Once the Yankees filled their needs (remember, THEY turned down a 2/14 deal), they have no incentive to meet Damon/Boras’ price.
As has been said ad nauseum here, the only way Damon returns is if he goes to Cashman and agrees to work for a fraction of what he earned last year.
As Tyler Kepner said in his piece in the Times yesterday, the chances of that happening are very, very slim.
Its easy for fans to say, “take a 90% paycut”.
If you were Johnny Damon, knowing you can still play and have already made 100 million in the game, there is a pride factor at work.
He will quit before playing for peanuts.
Sj,
So you are suggesting that he retire? I don’t see that he has many options other than to start calling teams and asking to work something out. Waiting is only giving him less options for the reasons that you named.
216 comments on an Umpires training post
damn you gotta love this place
filed under chortle away
an interesting link to begin a new day
http://www.weei.com/sports/bos.....ould-smile
What was the Yankees last offer to Damon? With all this discussion, I actually forgot.
Am I correct that there is no “standing” offer, and that any offer was removed from the table once Nick Johnson was signed? That the ball is in Damon’s court?
Any way, I think at least I’ve realized that when you read that a player says he has had some interest from teams is so not the same has having offers from teams.
daled -
Yeah, but 210 of those comments are related in at least some way to Johnny Damon.
Damon’s indigestion:
Peanuts + Humble pie.
You still don’t get it.
He’s waiting because he HAS NO OFFERS!
He isn’t waiting by choice.
I’m saying he doesn’t NEED to play for peanuts. A 37 year old guy with his skills is playing for peanuts at 2 million dollars.
You wait because, with no current offers, anything can happen.
For example, a guy gets hurt in ST and all of a sudden a need arises for a team.
Kepner detailed all of this in his story yesterday.
Just because fans want players to play for peanuts doesn’t mean they will.
Damon descriptors:
Damonation, To Damonate, Damoned, Johnny D’ed, Damonly, Damonized, Damonization, Damonic, Damonoid, Damontra.
Others ?
SJ,
I know he has no offers ok. If he waits until ST them he also runs the risk of having no job at all. I don’t want Damon to play for peanuts, but as you said its about supply and demand, at some point you just have to take what you can get for one year and try again next year. You are trying to make an argument where I’m at least partially in agreement with you.
MTU
January 21st, 2010 at 8:46 am
Damon descriptors:
Damonation, To Damonate, Damoned, Johnny D’ed, Damonly, Damonized, Damonization, Damonic, Damonoid, Damontra.
Others ?
*********************
LOL My favorite is Johnny D’ed.
Others: The Damonater
Good article on Damon this morning at RAB:
http://riveraveblues.com/2010/.....get-22664/
The Damon code:
Johnny Damon has at times Damonated, or Damonized while a Yankee.
Oftentimes this has lead him to Damonate, or Johhny D the oppostion.
Right now some people are Damonizing Him for wanting too much money but is that really Damonic ?
After all he is not a Damonoid is he ?
Johnny has always been Damonly Yankee.
If Johnny wants to come back He and Boras must stop the Damontra and get down to buisness.
That’s my postion and I’m sticking to it.
Who is this MPB Johnny Damon all of you speak of????
SJ referenced this article and for all those people who think it is ridiculous for Damon not come back to the Yankees with a pay-cut:
[Kenny] Rogers was coming off a three-year, $22.5 million contract with the Rangers, and he rejected their two-year, $10 million offer. He signed with Minnesota in spring training for just $2 million after another lefty starter, Eric Milton, got hurt.
Did Rogers regret passing up the Rangers’ offer?
“Not for one second,” he told The Times that spring. “Most people won’t believe that, but that doesn’t really matter to me. I know what type of pitcher I am. I know what I meant to that club.
I just couldn’t in my mind take that kind of a cut knowing the responsibilities I was going to have on that team if I stayed there.”
its not just the damon money, its the damon money plus the johnson money. if they sign damon for 5-6M then they are basically spending over $10M to fill one starting spot.
I think it’s quite clear that the yankees are not going to use damon as the starting LF’er (and they shoudln’t as he is no longer an mlb caliber OF’er), so damon/johnson together would be covering the dh/4th OF positions and there is no way they are going to pay over $10M. for that.
damon’s spot on this team is taken and he won’t be back.
the market is about 3-4 million per war
if damons production falls even slightly while gardners improves slightly we are talking probably less than one war
even if they stay the same we are talking about a 1 1/2 war increase with damon in left going by 2009 numbers
so even if their production stayed the same damon is worth 3.5-6 million for the extra one & a half wins if it even played out that way or the yankees were even interested
i believe they think gardner will get a little better or could but believe damons production will or could fall off in wich the benefit will be very minimal at best
even if garder did not get better but damons production slipped we are talking about a very minimal gain
i just can’t see damon playing for us for 3-4 million unless there are just no other offers & the need is there on our side
Damon’s generally been a pretty good soldier. While he doesn’t have Pettitte’s cache as a Yankee, is it at all reasonable to think the Yankees might be willing to offer low $2M – $3M base with incentives that get him up $7M-$8M?
The sing for your supper program worked for Pettitte and may work for Damon. Don’t know that his FA position will be any better next year, as he’d once again be the 3rd or 4th best OF/DH option on the market and a year older, but he’d at least have a better understanding of the market.
Let’s go,
That’s what some folks on here fail to comprehend. Players are loathe to take massive paycuts to return to their team in the same role they had the year before.
They rationalize doing it for another team because its another team.
For the present team? In the last 10 years, the only 2 guys I know of to have taken 50%+ paycuts to return to their team are Jason Varitek and Andy Pettitte.
They are exceptions and not the rule. Both guys also have longer standing relationships with their teams than Damon has with the Yankees.
Therein lies the rub.
Hey, I’d love to see the guy back in NY. He’s a great guy, can still play, and is needed.
However, its pretty clear the Yankees aren’t interested in bringing him back on HIS terms.
It remains to be seen if he is willing to come back on THEIR terms. Especially since it looks like that’s his only shot at coming back.
Its not a paycut. His last contract which he signed when he was younger expired and now he has to sign a new one based on market value. His age, skills, and the market have changed from 4 years ago. When he signed his last contract he was still a CFer and was 4 years younger.
If he can’t wrap his head around a new contract at a lower price then he won’t be a Yankee and that’s ok.
“Its not a paycut.”
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http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pay+cut
i also think there is a ‘stick-it-to-boras’ thing going on here. when boras turned down the yankees offer, cash may have decided to force them to come back begging. people always give boras kudos for knowing the market so well, i think cashman is out to prove he can read a market as well or better than the golden boy.
Yeah, that is fine that it worked out for Kenny Rogers…what about for Kenny Lofton and Sammy Sosa (among others that I can’t think of off the top of my head) who still wanted to play and didn’t get the opportunity.
The problem with that kind of incentive plan is, it completely blows up the budget and limits their mid-season trade options.
If you are starting someone on that low a base, the incentives have to be numerous in order for him to reach that number.
Games played and days spent on the roster are two ways to do it. However, that often hamstrings the manager.
For example, what if Johnny has a clause that has him slated to get “X” amount of dollars for certain thresholds of games played and/or days on the roster?
Girardi feels the need to sit him because he’s hurting or slumping. Or, he is hurting enough (in the teams eyes, not necessarily in Johnny’s eyes) to be DL’ed. Can they do it and not risk the wrath of the player who may believe he is being sat/DL’ed for $$$ reasons?
Its a slippery slope when you go that route.
That’s why he should have taken the 2 year deal. Not doing so not only killed his return to the Yankees, it makes his chances of landing anywhere for anything close to the money the Yankees offered remote.
All of you are failing to take into account one thing-
Johnny Damon has expressed the goal of getting 3,000 hits many times. He is currently at 2,425. I do not see him stopping. I think he takes the paycut
“For the present team? In the last 10 years, the only 2 guys I know of to have taken 50%+ paycuts to return to their team are Jason Varitek and Andy Pettitte.”
Bernie Williams. Again a player that had a long history with a team though.
Blake,
Its a paycut. Let’s not be ridiculous here.
Johnny Damon started in LF on Opening Day 2009 making 13 million dollars.
I doubt very seriously he is interested in starting in LF in 2010 for 2 million and wouldn’t consider that a MASSIVE paycut by the Yankees.
Erica,
Yes, he would love to play longer. The question is however, for how much?
I don’t think (no, I KNOW) Johnny never expected to be this year’s Bobby Abreu on the open market. That can change one’s thinking about continuing to play.
Especially since, at least as of today, he doesn’t even have a 5 million dollar offer on the table for his services.
Cashman wants to teach Boras a lesson?
Cashman understands it’s business and not a personal vendetta and I’m sure has more important things on his to do list than that.
New post
Pat,
That was different though. Bernie was going to have a diminished role with the team.
He wasn’t going to be a starting player.
In Varitek and Pettitte’s situations, they were still frontline players with their respective teams.
that is a good point Erica, and playing for the Yankees probably gives him a better chance to meet that goal. Not to mention that he would get play off $$$ that might not be available depending on where else he might sign.
damon will never get to 3000 hits. it would take him at least 4 more years, he’s be 41. that’s not going to happen, his legs are shot already. i’ll be very suprised if he’s on an mlb roster in 2012.
“The problem with that kind of incentive plan is, it completely blows up the budget and limits their mid-season trade options.”
“Its a slippery slope when you go that route.”
I agree on both counts, but it’s still no different than Pettitte’s situation, in which all his incentives were based on either days on roster and innings pitched. Don’t think the slope is any less slippery for Damon than it was for Pettitte. Pettitte went for nearly $6M in incentives in ’09 and the team was still able to make the requisite adjustments to the roster with the likes of Gaudin, Hinske and Hairston. With no real black holes on this team, I can’t imagine, barring serious injury, that the roster would need much more than some tinkering come midseason.
Frank,
Its different because the Yankees had a bigger budget last year.
They also had a bigger need to bring back Andy than they do Damon at this time.
The two aren’t really similar when you look at it that way.
SJ:
Fair points, all.
It was proven the Sabathia and Teixeira were difference makers to compliment other talent the Yankees had in 2009.
Adding Curtis Granderson, Nick Johnson, and Javy Vasquez were good and correct moves going forward to this season.
Johnny Damon would not be a difference maker in 2010 and just 1/25th of the team if he were signed.
Brian Cashman knew this once the budget restraints were in place. He also has to keep an eye toward 2011 when Derek Jeter’s contract is due along with possible year to year deals with Mariano among other moves.
Scott Boras couldn’t care less about any team’s budget concerns. All he wants is the most money for his clients which equates to more commissions for him.