The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


First Karstens. Then Jackson. Now Claggett.

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 21, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Back in November, the Pirates designated former Yankees right-hander Jeff Karstens for assignment. Yesterday, they designated Steven Jackson.

Today, it was Anthony Claggett’s turn to be DFA.

From a Yankees perspective, the most interesting thing about Jackson and Claggett being designated this week is that each move came with reports that the Pirates tried to make a trade instead of a DFA to open a roster spot. Obviously, the Pirates weren’t able to work out a deal. The same thing happened to the Yankees last season when they lost Jackson and Claggett on waivers rather than trading them.

I don’t think fans — or general managers — ever like to lose a player on waivers, but sometimes there simply isn’t a trade market for a particular player. Apparently the Yankees weren’t the only team to find that to be the case with Jackson and Claggett.

———

Also, the Rangers have designated former first-round pick Greg Golson. I remember Golson from my days covering the Phillies. He’s a very athletic outfielder, but his numbers have never been especially good. He’s only worth mentioning because of the Yankees lack of upper-level outfield depth. Golson really hasn’t hit enough to suggest he could contend for a major league job this spring.

 
 

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106 Responses to “First Karstens. Then Jackson. Now Claggett.”

  1. austinmac January 21st, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    SJ–What conclusions do you believe we can draw, if any, from the Yankees having only 38 players on the roster?

  2. SJ44 January 21st, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    That they will sign at least one more OF prior to ST.

    They will probably keep the other slot free and see if anyone interesting pops up on the radar.

  3. miggs - GTLU Reinging Champion January 21st, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    This post should help some fans recognize what a fantastic job Cashman and the Yankees scouting system has done recently.

    For a team with so many 40-man roster issues, a team with so many guys competing in AAA or stuck on the bench who would be seeing ample playing time if they were on other organizations, the Yankees sure do a good job of knowing who to let go and who to retain.

    Karstens, Claggett, Jackson, all these guys has some “potential” when the Yankees released them. Yet now they find themselves looking for work again, this time after being dumped by much less-competitive franchises.

    There are obviously many players the Yankees have let go who have gone on to have success with other teams (Latroy Hawkins and Brett Tomko immediately come to mind). But on the whole the front office has done a great job of keeping their most valuable resources in-house.

    I am looking forward to watching this team go on another championship run. They should be ultra-competitive for at least the next few years with the core that they have. Combine that with the way the organization is now being run, the savvy decisions being made, and this team is going to be very good for a long time.

  4. GreenBeret7 January 21st, 2010 at 3:17 pm

    I’d make a run at Golson once he becomes a FA. I just noticed that he was on Texas’ 40 man roster. That would save a spot on the yankees’ 40 man roster. He might just be a late bloomer, since he just turn 24.

  5. trisha - OPPC forever - (new lucky picture from last day at the old Stadium) BRING ON THE GHOSTS! January 21st, 2010 at 3:18 pm

    (from previous thread)

    While I typically take my own counsel, for good or bad, over anyone else’s here because I don’t consider anyone to corner the market on baseball expertise here, I will say there are certain poster I will listen to more than others. With all due respect, Wait, you hyperventilated all last season about the “incredible” Suxers and the kind of season they were going to have and you continually counseled us that we were underestimating the Suxers.

    Needless to say, I don’t necessarily think we do life the same way or look at things through the same “objective” eyes. It doesn’t surprise me that you think Pedroia is superior to Cano. I’m sure you believe it. Suffice it to say I don’t agree.

    :)

  6. Chip January 21st, 2010 at 3:23 pm

    I still think the logical guy to go after is Fernando Tatis.

    While it’s true that Reed Johnson or Rocco Baldelli would represent better defensive options than Tatis, Tatis has experience coming off the bench, offers more power, and can back up at more positions than the other two. As for his defensive shortcomings; if the Yankees go with a bench of Tatis, Cervelli, Pena and Hoffmann they can use Hoffmann or Pena as defensive subs for Tatis depending on whom he steps in for.

    The only reason to bring in a guy like Johnson or Baldelli is if you don’t think Gardner can play LF over the course of a full season, if that’s the case you sign a legitimate starter for LF like Ankiel or Damon.

  7. Damon still an option January 21st, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    Damon will sign with the Yankees. He has no other options.

  8. Paco Dooley January 21st, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    I’ve read some criticism lately that the Yankees shifted their recent strategy by trading away a lot of their upper-level talent this off season. I don’t agree with that take on their handling of the situation. They saw opportunities. They had a question mark in Austin Jackson and traded him towards a premium MLB player at the same position that is still pretty young. They traded IPK as part of that deal and I think they saw him also as a question mark, plus he was behind two other young starters.

    They also traded some talent for Vasquez, but none that they couldn’t do without and none that are known to have definite solid MLB talent.

    The way I see it, their dedication to building and keeping minor league talent is what allows them to improve their team through trades like this. They hold onto the really top talent (Joba, Hughes, Montero) and only offer that type of player towards the truly elite (e.g., Johan Santana, Roy Halladay). To mean this is smart decision making, especially for a team with deep pockets.

  9. rodg12 January 21st, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    Wave -
    I subscribe to the MLB Extra Innings package and watch games almost every night. When the Yanks aren’t playing, I’m usually tuned into the Game Mix channel that has 8 games going at once. I also like to tune into MLB Network and catch their game look-ins. Do I see those guys play as much as Cano? No, of course not. However, I saw each of them play a lot last year. Felipe Lopez was probably the guy I saw the least that you listed. Only watched him a couple times last year.

  10. m January 21st, 2010 at 3:32 pm

    I haven’t watched Pedroia beyond what I see on Sports Center and Yankee games, so using the eye-test method I wouldn’t be able to tell you who is better or by how much.

    I do know that Cano is a good fielder, but doesn’t always get to balls that others might.

    But I think he has good hands, good instincts, and can turn the double play very well.

    There are other 2B that are better, but they’re not on the Yankees. So does it really matter where Cano ranks? Not really because he’s doing a great job and he’s not going anywhere.

  11. YanFanDave January 21st, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    Makes a strong case that Cashman and crew know how to evaluate talent when deciding who to leave unprotected and who to trade. Also, last year Reegie Corona lost to rule 5 but came back. A+ to Cash!

  12. RayVT January 21st, 2010 at 3:37 pm

    pete
    January 21st, 2010 at 3:19 pm

    I like you! LOL! Peds is a very good player and I enjoy the fact that Cano who was so discredited by most Yankee fans prior to last season is being compared to Peds, whom I reiterate is very good. That said, I’ve sen and played with some great SS & 2B over the years. Cano is in the conversation at 2B and he has a higher window to get better than Peds. Peds has to take an extra ½ step to be where Cano’s arms are. I have not studied UZR, but I am an EE with a minor in Math & Nuclear who works in probaility and statistics all the time. Data is the key. Data can easily be skewed and misinterpreted. Even collecting the data is difficult.

    Personally, I would take Cano over Peds on both offense and defense!

  13. m January 21st, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    http://www.nesn.com/2010/01/jo.....nkees.html

    Ouch!

  14. sen January 21st, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    Damon may have no other option, but the yanks do. Pass.

  15. AeroFANatic January 21st, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    I would like to get my fellow Yankee fans’ opinions of Derek Jeter’s defense. Now, normally any aging shortstop on the backend of their career will see a downtrend in UZR/150. Jeter’s last 3 years of UZR/150:

    2007: -16.7
    2008: – 0.7
    2009: – 8.4

    This is a 24 point swing, or equivalent to 2.5 wins. Now, here’s my question…what do we attribute it to?? Is he just getting better with age? Is it knowing he’s up for a contract soon? Is it better working with the field coaches?

    It’s an interesting case. I happen to think it’s because of the arrival of A-Rod. Prior, Jeter would shade closer to 3rd and maybe could not get those harder hit balls up the middle. Since A- Rod has came on board, Jeter can cheat up the middle knowing A-Rod would get alot of the sprays towards SS.

    Am I totally off base here? Anyone else have a thought as to this odd stat in nature?

  16. AeroFANatic January 21st, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    +8.4 in 2009, sorry

  17. Rich on the 6 train January 21st, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    I think Claggett was someone that Chad was high on. He seemed to be close to getting to the next level. Even though I like Karstens: he is more of a small market starter, wouldn’t it make sense to give Claggett another shot.

  18. Warning Track Power January 21st, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    None of these former Yankees could make the opening day roster in 2010.
    Cashman had the right idea to send these players elsewhere when the opportunity was there.

  19. m January 21st, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    Aero,

    Jeter started working with a trainer that helped him with something very specific (hip?). I’ll try to find the article.

    Also something about him shading back towards the middle now.

    And of course, there’s the contract year(s).

  20. Wait till we do it all over Again January 21st, 2010 at 3:57 pm

    Perhaps Jeter has simply been listening to more criticism. He knew he had problems going to his left, and he finally decided to accept that as an issue and improve upon it.

    Or it could just be a statistical fluke that will trend downward to the normal this season. I hope not, but it’s always possible.

    (BTW-Your comment on RAB was just deleted for being off topic.)

  21. AeroFANatic January 21st, 2010 at 4:02 pm

    I saw that Wait…

    I thought it was on topic because he had mentioned UZR as a stat….but whatever. lol

  22. Wave Your Hat January 21st, 2010 at 4:02 pm

    rodg12-

    You’re fortunate. If I did that my wife would kill me!

  23. Wave Your Hat January 21st, 2010 at 4:08 pm

    AeroFanatic-

    The blog comments have been round and round on the Jeter defense/UZR issue. Surprisingly, some of those most opposed to UZR are the first to offer explanations for the improvement (then you think they’d just say, garbage in, garbage out).

    For those of us who believe UZR offers something positive, the most popular answers have been (1) better positioning by Jeter after 2007 (perhaps related to the change in coaching staff) and (2) better conditioning by Jeter.

  24. L Keller January 21st, 2010 at 4:10 pm

    Chip: Tatis stinks, plain and simple. Zero interest.
    Damon no longer fits the Yankees needs. We need a RH bat,possibly two if Hoffman doesn’t cut it.
    Sign Xavier Nady. He’s the best option available.

  25. Bill January 21st, 2010 at 4:11 pm

    Karstens had a perfect game into the 8th inning his first start for Pirates, I guess it all went downhill from there. Too bad.

  26. Rich in NJ January 21st, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    All Karstens, Jackson, and Claggett did was waste spots on the 40 man.

  27. Laura January 21st, 2010 at 4:24 pm

    “Sign Xavier Nady. He’s the best option available.”

    He may be the most handsome option, but he’s not the best. The guy has had TJ surgery twice. I’ll miss his face, but I have to pass.

  28. Rich in NJ January 21st, 2010 at 4:24 pm

    AeroFANatic

    Don’t forget that UZR needs to be viewed in the context of + or – 10 runs per season.

    In addition to conditioning and positioning, Jeter has had a number of nagging injuries in recent seasons.

  29. jayhi January 21st, 2010 at 4:37 pm

    Sign Golson? 7 ML ABs and 5 strikeouts

  30. CountryClub January 21st, 2010 at 4:43 pm

    Jeter’s range improved because he started working with a new trainer after the 2007 season. They targeted his lateral movement and also his first step going to his left as major areas of need.

    They saw results in 2008 and then even more results after a second off season of working with the guy. You can do a google search and find numerous articles on it.

    I hope Jeter worked out with him again this year. I’m not sure why he wouldnt…but you never know.

  31. Stan January 21st, 2010 at 4:44 pm

    When the AAA Scranton/Wilkes-Barre Yankees open their season, there will not be room for Karstens, Jackson, or Claggett.

  32. Joe from Long Island January 21st, 2010 at 4:48 pm

    My post was just eaten –

    I was about to say the same thing as Country Club, above, with one small addition.

    I read an account that Cash had noticed the loss in leftward range during the 2007 season, and asked Torre to speak to Jeter about it. According to the story, Torre claimed he had spoken to Jeter, but Jeter refused to acknowledge any loss of range. After the season, when Torre had been let go, Cash spoke directly to Jeter. Jeter claimed no one, let alone Torre, had spoken to him. Jeter then promised to work on it, and the rest is history.

    Cash was supposedly beyond upset at Torre, and how his trust in his field manager had been betrayed. This may be one of the reasons why Joe Girardi got the manager’s job, and not Torre’s right-hand man, Don Mattingly.

  33. John Szarkowski January 21st, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    http://tsutpen.blogspot.com/20.....n-554.html

    remind you of anyone?

  34. Erica - always OPPC - Bring Back Johnny!!!! January 21st, 2010 at 4:55 pm

    m
    January 21st, 2010 at 3:39 pm
    http://www.nesn.com/2010/01/jo…..nkees.html

    Ouch!

    ***************

    Seriously!

    Maybe Johnny Damon ran over his puppy when he was in Boston. Thats pretty much the only way to explain an article like that

  35. Damon still an option January 21st, 2010 at 4:56 pm

    No way, given the option of having Damon on the cheap or dealing with Gardner in Left, does Cashman diss the Damon-meister…..he is coming back….period !

  36. lets go yankees January 21st, 2010 at 5:02 pm

    Pedroia has more range to both his left and right and anyone who does not see that is just drinking the Yankee kool-aid. I am a huge Cano fan and I am not taking anything away from him, but it is fairly obvious Pedroia has more range from an eye test or statistical test.

    If you think Cano is the better defender with more range, how do you explain this:

    Boston was considering moving Pedroia to SS this season, but no one in their right mind thinks Cano could handle that position.

  37. Erin January 21st, 2010 at 5:09 pm

    Laura
    January 21st, 2010 at 4:24 pm
    “Sign Xavier Nady. He’s the best option available.”

    He may be the most handsome option, but he’s not the best. The guy has had TJ surgery twice. I’ll miss his face, but I have to pass.

    ******************************
    He may not be the best, but I’d have no problem at all if Nady was resigned. ;)

  38. Rich in NJ January 21st, 2010 at 5:12 pm

    Pedroia does not have more range up the middle than Cano.

    “Boston was considering moving Pedroia to SS this season, but no one in their right mind thinks Cano could handle that position.”

    Easy. It was merely a negotiating gambit with Scutaro.

  39. SJ44 January 21st, 2010 at 5:19 pm

    Your argument now moves to the nonsensical when you are using a negotiating tactic as “evidence” of Pedroia’s range.

  40. Laura January 21st, 2010 at 5:19 pm

    “He may not be the best, but I’d have no problem at all if Nady was resigned.”

    Now, why doesn’t that surprise me, Erin? :P

  41. upstate kate January 21st, 2010 at 5:21 pm

    Boston also had Youk play in the OF this season, how is that relevant to anything?
    I will admit to drinking the Yankee kool aid, but I would take Cano over the elf any day.

  42. Laura January 21st, 2010 at 5:22 pm

    “I will admit to drinking the Yankee kool aid, but I would take Cano over the elf any day.”

    Same here. Any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

  43. Erin January 21st, 2010 at 5:23 pm

    Laura
    January 21st, 2010 at 5:19 pm
    “He may not be the best, but I’d have no problem at all if Nady was resigned.”

    Now, why doesn’t that surprise me, Erin?

    ************************
    LOL
    I could definitely take another year of Nady as a Yankee.

  44. Erin January 21st, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    upstate kate
    January 21st, 2010 at 5:21 pm

    I will admit to drinking the Yankee kool aid, but I would take Cano over the elf any day.

    **************************
    Yes, yes yes!!!

    kate, I like the way you think :)

  45. lets go yankees January 21st, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    So they called the face of their franchise and asked him if he could handle SS. Had him go speak to the media about it. Mess with his head to save a few bucks on Scutaro?

    I do not buy it. I think they considered him at SS.

    I also think Pedroia could handle playing SS and when that news came out most people seemed to think he could as well.

  46. jvcelt January 21st, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    the walls r closing on mrs damon/boras… he will be fortunate to get 2 yrs from the yanks. i would suggest that one year (5-7m) is fair, 2 more than generous.
    we know that he is an adequate fielder with a poor arm. i say he would still be a quite productive #2 bat over 120-130 games, with a right-handed bat (baldelli/nady/johnson) filling in at lf/cf, along with gardner.

  47. Damon still an option January 21st, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    http://bleacherreport.com/arti.....e-for-2010
    .
    gonna happen !
    .
    :-)

  48. SJ44 January 21st, 2010 at 5:28 pm

    You may not believe it but, it’s true. They were never moving him to SS.

    He’s also not the “face of the franchise”.

    Now you are going overboard with your evaluation of Pedroia.

  49. lets go yankees January 21st, 2010 at 5:28 pm

    “I will admit to drinking the Yankee kool aid, but I would take Cano over the elf any day.”

    ———————-

    I never said I would take Pedroia over Cano. I would have to really think about it more throughly to make my decision there. The only thing I was talking about was their ability on defense, and I am not letting my Yankee fandom get in the way of that discussion.

  50. lets go yankees January 21st, 2010 at 5:33 pm

    Lets say it is not true. Pedroia could still handle the move to SS while Cano most certainly cannot.

    Also if Pedroia is not the face of their franchise right now, who is? Youkilis?

    I really thought it was common knowledge that Pedroia was one of the best 2b in baseball, because I have never heard/read/seen anything to contradict that. I also thought it was common knowledge that Cano was a good 2b but not on that level. This argument is never going to end, because you will never accept any of the statistics or evaluations on each player indicating otherwise.

    I am willing to bet you could not find someone close to the game who thinks Cano has more range then Pedroia, because it is simply not true. Like Pete said in the last thread. Cano allows more runs to score on defense then Pedroia, because he does not get to as many balls.

  51. Wait till we do it all over Again January 21st, 2010 at 5:37 pm

    Canoand Pedroia have about equal value. Pedroia’s WAR is higher, but it does not adjust for ballparks. Pedroia’s WAR would drop )fairly) significantly if he played anywhere but Fenway. He loves to play pinball with the monster.

  52. Wait till we do it all over Again January 21st, 2010 at 5:39 pm

    Now Cano is a better hitter than Pedroia. They have equal value because Pedroia has much better defense than Cano. Pedroia ranks higher, as I said, playing in Fenway, and since WAR does not adjust for parks you could probably drop it down to Cano’s WAR.

  53. Wait till we do it all over Again January 21st, 2010 at 5:40 pm

    lets go yankees-By not as good a second baseman as Pedroia, you mean defensively right?

  54. lets go yankees January 21st, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    lets go yankees-By not as good a second baseman as Pedroia, you mean defensively right?

    ————————

    Correct.

  55. Wait till we do it all over Again January 21st, 2010 at 5:42 pm

    Gotcha. If you meant overall, well…

  56. blake January 21st, 2010 at 5:42 pm

    are we still talking Cano vs Pedroia?

    Here’s the big difference. Even if Pedroia is slightly better defensively which I’m not convinced he is, Cano still has room to get better while Pedroia has pretty much already maxed out his talent.

  57. Wait till we do it all over Again January 21st, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    I don’t get why people won’t look at the defensive statistics. At least try and understand them before you debunk them. If you don’t want to put the effort into learning them, you have no grounds to debunk them either.

  58. Nick in SF January 21st, 2010 at 5:45 pm

    Pedroia has better range getting to balls close to the ground, which is his natural habitat.

    And, although he is not a magic person, he does have access to certain Elvish trickery. Much of it is designed to make the simple look flashy and complex.

    Cano, as befits his Ninja training, makes the difficult and complex look easy and simple. By the time the untrained fan’s eye has caught up to what is happening, Cano has already made the play.

    It doesn’t suprise me that the two players confuse so many people.

  59. Wait till we do it all over Again January 21st, 2010 at 5:46 pm

    For that matter, it’s not even that close. While Cano is certaily not BAD defensively, Pedroia, at least range wise, is much better.

  60. lets go yankees January 21st, 2010 at 5:48 pm

    It is also not like UZR is the only stat that says Pedroia is better.

    You can go over to the fielding bible and see Pedroia came in 2nd place this year according to their system.

    blake,

    Why has Pedroia maxed out his talent? He is younger then Cano.

  61. Joe from Long Island January 21st, 2010 at 5:49 pm

    Nick – you do have a way with words.

  62. Erin January 21st, 2010 at 5:53 pm

    Nick in SF
    January 21st, 2010 at 5:45 pm

    Cano, as befits his Ninja training, makes the difficult and complex look easy and simple. By the time the untrained fan’s eye has caught up to what is happening, Cano has already made the play

    ***********************
    Love the Cano as ninja reference!!! :D

  63. Damon still an option January 21st, 2010 at 5:54 pm

    Canoo > RatBoy

  64. RayVT January 21st, 2010 at 5:54 pm

    Nick in SF
    January 21st, 2010 at 5:45 pm

    LOL! Eloquently said!!

  65. Nick in SF January 21st, 2010 at 5:54 pm

    Thank you, Joe.

    I would also like to add the fact that Robinson Cano is so named because his parents wanted to honor a great baseball pioneer and hero.

    Dustin Pedroia is so named because his parents really liked “Tootsie”.

    Of course that has nothing to do with their field skills.

  66. champ809 January 21st, 2010 at 5:56 pm

    Cano and Pedroia are probably of equal ability as far as defense at second but their respective strengths are in diff areas. Cano is the best 2b in the game going to his right and has what most consider the strongest arm at the position in the game. He is also one of the best at turning the double play in the game. He needs to improve going to his left and I think that’s just an effort thing as he doesn’t dive to much for balls and get his uniform dirty.
    Pedroia obviously is all hustle inthe 2b hole and makes all the plays but doesn’t go to his left as well as Robbie and doesn’t have Robbies arm.
    Two guys that know a lil about playing the 2 bag (Joe Morgan and Willie Randolph) are of the opinion that Cano is the best defensive second baseman in the game.
    Pedroia played SS in high school and I think in rookie ball but he couldn’t play and stay at SS at this point his arm is not strong enough to stay there that’s one of the reasons they moved him over to second.

  67. Rich in NJ January 21st, 2010 at 6:00 pm

    “Your argument now moves to the nonsensical when you are using a negotiating tactic as “evidence” of Pedroia’s range.”

    If your referring to my post, his range is irrelevant to my point.

    I’m merely suggesting that the only reason they talked of moving him to SS was for negotiating purposes.

  68. Wait till we do it all over Again January 21st, 2010 at 6:00 pm

    Being a second baseman has nothing to do with judging good second base defense. Where’s the EVIDENCE? It’s opinion.

  69. blake January 21st, 2010 at 6:00 pm

    Let’s go,

    What is Pedroia going to get better at. Cano is more talented but Pedroia is just as good a player right now. Pedroia is already getting pretty much the best out of his ability which is a credit to him. Cano still has room to improve because he isn’t getting the most out of his ability yet IMO

  70. Rich in NJ January 21st, 2010 at 6:01 pm

    “So they called the face of their franchise and asked him if he could handle SS. Had him go speak to the media about it. Mess with his head to save a few bucks on Scutaro?

    I do not buy it. I think they considered him at SS.

    I also think Pedroia could handle playing SS and when that news came out most people seemed to think he could as well.”

    Why does it matter if you buy it?

  71. Rich in NJ January 21st, 2010 at 6:02 pm

    There is no way that Pedroia was ever going to play SS. If could have played it, that would be his position.

  72. champ809 January 21st, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    this the problem with some stat geeks the evidence is guys who were HOF’ers and know what they are actually seeing are telling…whereas you are solely basing your opinion on stats which can be manipulated to tell whatever story you want.
    The EVIDENCE in this case is visual.

  73. lets go yankees January 21st, 2010 at 6:06 pm

    “There is no way that Pedroia was ever going to play SS. If could have played it, that would be his position.”

    ————————–

    Why is that? He would probably be worth less to the Red Sox as a SS. His offense would be a boost at SS but he would not be elite defensively like he is at 2nd. He provides the most value to them at his current position.

  74. champ809 January 21st, 2010 at 6:07 pm

    Being a second baseman has nothing to do with judging good second base defense. Where’s the EVIDENCE? It’s opinion.
    ******************************************************
    that has to look as stupid as is sounds when you look at it written out no?

  75. SJ44 January 21st, 2010 at 6:08 pm

    Rich,

    I wasn’t referring to your post.

    Pedroia was moved off SS in the minors because his arm and range were short (pardon the pun) for the position.

    Frankly, it’s a universal belief from scouts in the game that Cano has the stronger arm and better range to his right than Pedroia.

    The issue with Robbie has always been focus and consistency.

    His 2009 season showed improvement in both of
    those areas.

  76. Rich in NJ January 21st, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    “Why is that? He would probably be worth less to the Red Sox as a SS. His offense would be a boost at SS but he would not be elite defensively like he is at 2nd. He provides the most value to them at his current position.”

    Because it’s harder to find a good SS than a good 2B and they haven’t been able to find a SS for several years. So if he was good enough defensively to play SS, that’s where he would have played.

    Exactly, he provides the most value at 2B because he isn’t good enough defensively to play SS.

    They know that, and that’s why I think the talk of moving him was never serious.

  77. Rich in NJ January 21st, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    OK, SJ

  78. lets go yankees January 21st, 2010 at 6:11 pm

    “What is Pedroia going to get better at. Cano is more talented but Pedroia is just as good a player right now. Pedroia is already getting pretty much the best out of his ability which is a credit to him.”

    ———————————

    What are you basing this on? He is 26 years old and has not yet entered his prime.

  79. blake January 21st, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    Let’s go,

    Just basing it on my opinion from watching him play. He is what he is, do you see him turning into a 25-30 HR guy? He’s already one of the best at what he does well.

  80. SJ44 January 21st, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    Rich is right. If Pedroia could play SS, he would be there because the Red Sox have spent over 60 million dollars on SS’s since they traded Nomar with no success.

    That’s a lot of coin for little in return.

  81. lets go yankees January 21st, 2010 at 6:16 pm

    “Exactly, he provides the most value at 2B because he isn’t good enough defensively to play SS.”

    ————————-

    One has nothing to do with the other. They are completely independent variables.

  82. m January 21st, 2010 at 6:19 pm

    Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!

    Rich is right. If Pedroia could play SS, he would be there because the Red Sox have spent over 60 million dollars on SS’s since they traded Nomar with no success.

  83. lets go yankees January 21st, 2010 at 6:19 pm

    “Rich is right. If Pedroia could play SS, he would be there because the Red Sox have spent over 60 million dollars on SS’s since they traded Nomar with no success.”

    —————————

    You are just looking at this in hindsight knowing all those SS did not work out.

    If they could go back in time, Pedroia could very well have been their SS.

  84. lets go yankees January 21st, 2010 at 6:20 pm

    And Pedroia was initially moved off SS in the minors because of Hanley.

  85. blake January 21st, 2010 at 6:22 pm

    The Red Sox chose to move Pedroia to a position he could be great at defensively rather than leave him at one he would be mediocre at.

  86. lets go yankees January 21st, 2010 at 6:24 pm

    blake:

    Exactly,

    Pedroia has not been moved off 2b, because he provides the most value to his team at 2b.

    His offensive numbers as a 2b + elite defense at 2b > His offensive numbers as a SS + average to below average defense at SS.

  87. SJ44 January 21st, 2010 at 6:25 pm

    He was moved off SS because the Red Sox didn’t see his future at SS. Why is that so hard for you to comprehend?

    They could have moved him back after they traded Ramirez if they felt he was their SS of the future.

    Nothing in his game screams SS. That’s why he was moved.

  88. lets go yankees January 21st, 2010 at 6:30 pm

    “They could have moved him back after they traded Ramirez if they felt he was their SS of the future.”

    ——————–

    His offensive numbers as a 2b + elite defense at 2b > His offensive numbers as a SS + average to below average defense at SS

  89. kd January 21st, 2010 at 6:31 pm

    sj,

    have you heard anything about the cuban defector that the red sox signed to play short?

    if you read what they’re saying about him, scutaro is a 2 year stopgap until he’s ready. but, then there’s reality. he’s 19 and has a steep cultural/basebal learning curve.

    is he that good or is he over hyped?

  90. m January 21st, 2010 at 6:31 pm

    Why didn’t they move Pedroia there as recently as ’09? When Lowrey (who?) went down and they had Nick Green (sounds familiar) playing SS.

  91. blake January 21st, 2010 at 6:31 pm

    Let’s go,

    Would you disagree that Cano has more upside than Pedroia from this point forward?

  92. lets go yankees January 21st, 2010 at 6:32 pm

    When it comes down to it all the argument is about is 1 thing:

    Pedroia could adequately handle the SS position, while Cano could not.

  93. RayVT January 21st, 2010 at 6:32 pm

    I think the Yankees need to sign Sean Rodriguez now and play him in CF. Sure he only played 2 games at CF for the Angels last year, but calculated over a 150 game season his UZR is +113.1! Look out Willie Mays!!!

  94. lets go yankees January 21st, 2010 at 6:33 pm

    m,

    Well for one that would leave a gaping hole at 2b, so that does not really accomplish anything. And two, just see me last response to SJ regarding his value at 2b

  95. m January 21st, 2010 at 6:36 pm

    Well, you’re right about that. Considering that Pedroia’s played SS before, he could theoretically play the position. How well? We’ll never know, because it’s highly doubtful that we’ll see Pedroia play the position for any significant length of time.

  96. lets go yankees January 21st, 2010 at 6:37 pm

    blake,

    I think Cano has more upside, but if I had to pick one given how I think they will perform in the future, their age, salary etc. I am not sure it would be Cano, to be completely honest.

  97. Rich in NJ January 21st, 2010 at 6:39 pm

    “One has nothing to do with the other. They are completely independent variables.”

    Maybe in the abstract, but in practical terms, they have to put a team on the field, and as a result, the goal is to deploy each player at the position that maximizes the team’s chances of winning.

    They have had a gaping hole at SS.

    If Pedroia could play SS, they would have moved him there.

    They haven’t moved him there.

    Consequently, they don’t think that he can play SS well enough.

  98. m January 21st, 2010 at 6:40 pm

    So if they plugged Pedroia in SS like they said, there’d be a gaping hole at 2B. Who would they sign to play 2B? Even if they were serious about moving him (which I think where the conversation turned), it’s just a bandaid approach. And you’d have subpar defense at 2 positions, instead of simply trying to fix the problem in the first place. Like signing Scutaro to a sweetheart deal…They did? How did they do that?

  99. RayVT January 21st, 2010 at 6:42 pm

    Cano played 53 more innings than Peds last year at 2B. Cano had 53 more putouts, 20 more assists, 10 more DPs and 6 more errors (12). Now given all that, Cano’s UZR/150 was a -5.2 yet Peds was +10.6. Something doesn’t smell right.

    Clint Barnes played 250 les innings than Cano, had same number of errors (12), 67 less Putouts, 11 les assists, and 9 less DPs but had a UZR/150 rating of +7.5. That is crazy!

  100. Rich in NJ January 21st, 2010 at 6:43 pm

    “You are just looking at this in hindsight knowing all those SS did not work out.”

    They saw Pedroia plays SS in the mLs. If he was that good, they would have left him there.

    “If they could go back in time, Pedroia could very well have been their SS.”

    They don’t have to go back in time. They could do it now. They chose not to. It’s not like Scutaro is a healthy Jose Reyes. He will be 35 years old this year, and but for the last two years, he has been a marginal player.

  101. pat January 21st, 2010 at 6:45 pm

    Anyone watching hot stove on YES?

    Girardi doesn’t sound real sure that Gardner is going to be the starting LFer to me.

  102. Chad Jennings January 21st, 2010 at 6:46 pm

    New post. Let’s start looking at the AL East, shall we?

  103. lets go yankees January 21st, 2010 at 6:47 pm

    Rich,

    I never said he was that good. I simply said he could play the position, while Cano could not.

    And “m” lined out exactly why it makes no sense to just move Pedroia to SS. You are talking like they have someone waiting in the wings to take over 2b.

  104. Nick in SF January 21st, 2010 at 6:49 pm

    The argument that Pedroia is such an incredible fielder that the Red Sox almost moved him to shortstop somehow seems more hollow now.

  105. lets go yankees January 21st, 2010 at 6:50 pm

    Nick,

    Care to expand on that…

  106. RayVT January 21st, 2010 at 6:59 pm

    BTW – Cano played SS in 2002 as an All-Star in the Sally League!!

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