All’s well that ends well
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 23, 2010 
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It seems pretty clear that the Damaso Marte/Xavier Nady trade didn’t work out the way the Yankees would have liked.
The move was supposed to boost the Yankees into the postseason in 2008, which didn’t happen. Nady was supposed to have added value because he was under team control in 2009, but an injury robbed him of almost that entire season. Marte was supposed to give the Yankees a go-to left-hander out of the bullpen, which has occasionally happened.
Ultimately, though, the Yankees won No. 27. They won it with Marte pitching extremely well postseason, with Ross Ohlendorf having pitched well in Pittsburgh and with Nady stranded on the disabled list. It wasn’t exactly how they drew it up, but the Yankees won, which makes it hard to feel too bad about any deal that led to that moment.
As Rob pointed out this morning, Marte remains a valuable piece. He was outstanding in the playoffs, and even his regular season splits against left-handers were good. If having him in the bullpen made it easier for the Yankees to make trades for Curtis Granderson and Javier Vazquez, all the better.
On the trade market, you (almost) always have to give up something to get something. To get Marte — and a few months of Nady – the Yankees gave up one pitcher who might be developing into a solid mid-rotation starter (Ohlendorf), one pitcher who had a strong enough Triple-A season to get his first taste of the big leagues (Dan McCutchen), one pitcher who has been designated for assignment (Jeff Karstens), and one young outfielder who hit .303 in Double-A last season but still hasn’t shown much power (Jose Tabata).
Was that too much? Probably. But the Yankees won the World Series, and even that mistake had a positive impact on making that happen.
Interesting, but I don’t know what any of it has to do with Johhny Damon.
Any trade that positively effects a team resulting in a WS win is a good trade in my book. Marte was HUGE in the Series this year, so I don’t care if they gave the farm to get him. It would have still been worth it to win.
I agree with Nick. I love this blog but lately, every time I see a new post and it DOESN’T say, “Damon and Yanks agree to 2-year contract,” it annoys me. Come back Johnny!!!
Tabata had 5 homers in 93 minor league games last year. The only one the Yankees should have kept was Ross Ohlendorf.
Dan, is it going to be harder to watch Yankee games in Japan now that Matsui is gone?
Also, if I went to a random non-fancy place for a bowl of ramen, what would that cost me (in Tokyo, if that’s where you are)? Would it probably be awesome? I love ramen.
NYY had no spot for any of the 4 traded away for Marte and Nady. Injuries made it look worse than it really was, but, to think that Ohlendorf had no place to pitch. McCutchen may be ok, and turn into Roy Halladay or, he may never see the majors. Tabata wasn’t progressing and, with all of his talents, he just wasn’t worth the trouble. He has all of the earmarks of a Milton bradley-type…in all ways.
I had no problem with trading Ohlendorf. His ceiling is probably as a league average pitcher.
Given how few position players they have in the high minors, I hated trading Tabata, especially when his value was so low.
They also traded for Nady when his value was at its highest.
So they sold low on Tabata and high on Nady. That’s not a prudent way to make trades.
Hopefully, NYY pitchers will finally learn how to get Tejada out. He has killed Yankee pitchers since he came into baseball. NYY may have to arrange a 3 team trade to get one of Baltimore’s outfielders, because they have at least 6, with Markakis, Jones, Reimold, Scott, Pie, Wigginton and Montanez.
Rich in NJ
January 23rd, 2010 at 12:31 pm
I had no problem with trading Ohlendorf. His ceiling is probably as a league average pitcher.
Given how few position players they have in the high minors, I hated trading Tabata, especially when his value was so low.
They also traded for Nady when his value was at its highest.
So they sold low on Tabata and high on Nady. That’s not a prudent way to make trades.
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It’s also not “prudent” to keep a problem child around other developing players. He walked out on his team twice.
GB7
“It’s also not “prudent” to keep a problem child around other developing players. He walked out on his team twice.”
I am more optimistic about the plasticity of very young people. Good coaching and high character young players can help turn kids with problems around.
But if you have to trade him, don’t do it for a player who is having an out of context season.
If Nady and Marte had been healthy last season we would never have been introduced to the Swisher Salute nor would we have enjoyed Coke’s deer-in-the-headlights post game routine.
Funny but before I read this post my wife had just called me and asked me to pick her up some ramen. And now that’ll be two bowls to go.
You’d like this place Nick.
http://www.menupages.com/resta.....tei-2/menu
“It’s also not “prudent” to keep a problem child around other developing players. He walked out on his team twice.”
Pretty immature kid. I think the Yankees went wrong with him moving him up to AA when he wasn’t ready, mentally or physically. I know he had some problems in Trenton (beyond being out of his league on the field). Did he have similar off the field issues when he was in A ball?
“If Nady and Marte had been healthy last season we would never have been introduced to the Swisher Salute nor would we have enjoyed Coke’s deer-in-the-headlights post game routine.”
With regard to Swisher, I disagree. He’s a better player than Nady (career wOBA: .353 v. 342), and that would have shown itself over the course of the season.
Rich in NJ
January 23rd, 2010 at 12:41 pm
GB7
“It’s also not “prudent” to keep a problem child around other developing players. He walked out on his team twice.”
I am more optimistic about the plasticity of very young people. Good coaching and high character young players can help turn kids with problems around.
But if you have to trade him, don’t do it for a player who is having an out of context season.
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What part of “not progressing” in his career or personal life do you not understand? He was a disruptive influence on every team, he stayed hurt and he wasn’t getting any better. It’s too bad, because, he has outstanding talent.
He was getting good coaching, but, the personal issues and non-progression followed him. If issues always repeats it’s self where ever he goes, chances are, it’s him and not everyone else. I’ll stick with the Milton bradley comparisons until he proves otherwise.
“NYY may have to arrange a 3 team trade to get one of Baltimore’s outfielders, because they have at least 6, with Markakis, Jones, Reimold, Scott, Pie, Wigginton and Montanez.”
They can keep 6 of them, no problem. Markakis, Jones, Reimold as starting OF’s, Pie as the 4th OF, Scott as DH, and Wiggy as a utility type. Probably no room there for Montanez.
A bowl of spicy ramen sounds pretty good right now.
After the close of NFL business tomorrow, I am ready for January to be over.
With regard to Swisher, I disagree. He’s a better player than Nady (career wOBA: .353 v. 342), and that would have shown itself over the course of the season.”
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Possible but remember, they had Nady pegged as the starter even though Swish had the far superior spring training.
Why? I’m not 100% sure. I prefer Swisher myself. And he ended up playing decent LF. He made some heads up plays in the postseason too.
GB7
“What part of “not progressing” in his career or personal life do you not understand? He was a disruptive influence on every team, he stayed hurt and he wasn’t getting any better. It’s too bad, because, he has outstanding talent.”
And you once (wrongly) called me pompous?
The part that he was 19 years old and he came under the spell have a manipulative older woman. Who among us hasn’t made mistakes in life at that age?
“He was getting good coaching, but, the personal issues and non-progression followed him. If issues always repeats it’s self where ever he goes, chances are, it’s him and not everyone else. I’ll stick with the Milton bradley comparisons until he proves otherwise.”
As Frank said, he was ill-advisedly rushed through the system. Good coaching can’t always overcome that.
Again he was 19! 19! I don’t know how old you are, but that’s awfully young to me.
To repeat: if you want to trade him, fine. Trading him for a player whose value was at out an all-time high was dumb.
“Possible but remember, they had Nady pegged as the starter even though Swish had the far superior spring training.”
True, but I think Swisher’s talent (as well as Nady’s shortcomings) would have enabled him to win the job over the course of the season.
On a completely unrelated note. Though I knew in my head that the Yankees have had the same uniforms since 1936…just looking at this page makes it really sink in how long and storied this uniform is. No wonder every player secretly (or not so secretly) wants to put it on every day.
http://exhibits.baseballhallof.....038;pos=28
Edit: spell of a manipulative
FrankFW
January 23rd, 2010 at 12:44 pm
“It’s also not “prudent” to keep a problem child around other developing players. He walked out on his team twice.”
Pretty immature kid. I think the Yankees went wrong with him moving him up to AA when he wasn’t ready, mentally or physically. I know he had some problems in Trenton (beyond being out of his league on the field). Did he have similar off the field issues when he was in A ball?
————————————————————
Not personal issues like he had the last 3 years. Torre Tyson kept all of those kids on a tight string.
Possible but remember, they had Nady pegged as the starter even though Swish had the far superior spring training.
this is false.
Nady had the far superior spring training.
That is the problem in a nutshell as far as trading minor leaguers for established players. They can come back to bite you down the road. Everyone graded Tabata, Jackson and Vizcaino highly. But the Yankees need assets right now. It’s a tightrope that Cashman walks. Wait till Jeter and Alex are pushing forty and need to be replaced while earning fifty mil between the two of them. The Yankees need to start drafting overslot players in the early rounds with the hope that at least some pan out. They’ve gotten lucky with the economic downturn in getting Swisher, Granderson, Vazquez. It wasn’t good management. Kudos to Cashman in reviving the moribund Minor League system, at least he had someone to trade.
“he was 19 years old and he came under the spell have a manipulative older woman”
Maybe he was the one who manipulated her. A cunning teen Rasputin, that Tabata. That poor, naïve grandma never had a chance.
All-
Happy Saturday.
GB, Nick and others, I hope you are well.
Nick, I went 1-4 last weekend. Not good!
-dennis
Yeah, the years the Jeter, Mo and Arod go are going to be scary times…..what are we going to do???
Can we just negotiate with the league that if the Yankees are wining by the end of the 8th game is over?
Are we going to have an infield of Mark, Robbie, Pena and Kevin Russo (spelling?)?
I dont wana think about it…!
Baltimore also needs to make room for Brandon Snyder, who was their 2005 1st round pick. He’s also just about out of options. They’ll trade Scott or Pie before Wigginton. One of those 3 will be gone, though.
just FYI…
Spring trainging 2009:
Nady: .328/.368/.516
Swisher: .222/.362/.352
based on the title of this thread, i don’t think this argument is worth rehashing, Nady got hurt…Swish had a great season and the Yanks won it all. these things do tend to work themselves out.
i also don’t think Spring Training numbers are worth much at all.
but there was at least SOME method to the madness that Nady had the job AT FIRST. i agree that Swisher would have won it over within a month or two, and Nady would have settled into a solid role as the best 4th OFer in the AL.
dennis-Costanza
January 23rd, 2010 at 1:09 pm
All-
Happy Saturday.
GB, Nick and others, I hope you are well.
Nick, I went 1-4 last weekend. Not good!
-dennis
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Afternoon, Dennis. Hope all is well in your fair city and that Ms amy has stopped hitting you with a frying pan. I can’t wait to get out to Grayson Stadium in the spring. Being cooped up like this is making me cantankerous, or just plain mean. I feel like kicking a frog or something.
Baltimore is on the verge of competing. It’s amazing what good management such as Baltimore and Seattle can do in a very short time. Gone are the days of bad franchises. (Ahem, then there are the Mets, Houston, Cubs) It’s amazing – Everyone knew that Zdurenciek was a great evaluator of talent, give him some power and he become’s a monster.
http://baseballprospectus.com/.....cleid=9967
Hi dennis. Ouch, sorry about the 1-4. I had a better go of it. I like the home teams tomorrow. Not completely sure about the Colts -8, but in a teaser with the Saints, yes they can.
Good afternoon, all –
1. Nice post, Chad. One of the things that made giving up Ollie and McCutchen palatable for the Yankees was the organization having depth in young arms. Those players (and Jeff Karstens, who I will always remember tried to pitch with a broken leg) had no place on the NY 25-man, and the Yankees had – and still have – a list of young pitchers with the same, if not better, ML futures. McAllister, Nova, Sanchez, Noesi, not to mention good ole Joba and Phil.
If the Yankees had not had that depth, I wonder if that trade gets made.
2. Tabata may have a world of talent, but, 1-1/2 years later, is still in AA ball. “Potential” is synonomous with “unproven”.
3. GB7 – The problem with that scenario, is that I can’t see the O’s trading within the division, let alone to the Yankees. They do have some pretty good OF talent. Unless Cash pulls some magic out of the hat, we’ll have to wait for Crawford or Werth next off-season.
“Also, if I went to a random non-fancy place for a bowl of ramen, what would that cost me (in Tokyo, if that’s where you are)? Would it probably be awesome? I love ramen.”
That sounds like a hit. Everybody loves Ramen. Tonight on CBS.
Evan
January 23rd, 2010 at 3:38 am
CompassRosy, why would u cry over Edgar?
I’m just the “sappy” type…
Tears of sadness for the end of a stellar career.
Tears of pride that it was played entirely in Seattle.
Of course these days, Mariner fans are crying tears of joy ….
http://compassrosy.blogspot.co.....es-us.html
Joe from Long Island
January 23rd, 2010 at 1:33 pm
3. GB7 – The problem with that scenario, is that I can’t see the O’s trading within the division, let alone to the Yankees. They do have some pretty good OF talent. Unless Cash pulls some magic out of the hat, we’ll have to wait for Crawford or Werth next off-season.
————————————————————I suppose it will depend on whether McPhail has complete baseball control of trades or if Angelos continues to unterfer. I mentioned earlier that NYY would probably need to involve a third team. One other player that could do as well as Gardner and make a decent platoon is Justin Christian, who’s in the Baltimore system and stuck.
Correction:
if Angelos continues to ***interfere.***
Five titles have been won by expansion teams that came into the league either at the same time or after the Mariners did.
Tear worthy?
Hey, I’ve got a question for the blog –
The wife and I are planning our ST trip to Tampa. Does anybody have any experience with the Phillies ballpark in Clearwater? How’s the drive from Tampa, how nice a ballpark, etc?
It’s the most people-friendly minor league park I have seen.
Go, you will enjoy.
Joe from Long Island
January 23rd, 2010 at 1:43 pm
Hey, I’ve got a question for the blog –
The wife and I are planning our ST trip to Tampa. Does anybody have any experience with the Phillies ballpark in Clearwater? How’s the drive from Tampa, how nice a ballpark, etc?
about 20 minute drive across the bay on the Campbell Parkway (Rt 6).
Here’s some info for you.
http://www.4sarasota.com/Saras.....ining.html
Joe, here’s one more site with pix. It’s a very nice ballpark.
http://www.baseballpilgrimages.....water.html
“2. Tabata may have a world of talent, but, 1-1/2 years later, is still in AA ball. “Potential” is synonomous with “unproven””
He played the last quarter of the season in AAA and was one the youngest player in the International League. He’ll be in AAA for some of ’09. Nothing wrong with the progress he’s made since entering the Pirates system.
Tabata must be getting healthier. He only missed 47 games this year.
“Baltimore also needs to make room for Brandon Snyder, who was their 2005 1st round pick. He’s also just about out of options. They’ll trade Scott or Pie before Wigginton. One of those 3 will be gone, though.”
Atkins is likely only a 1 year deal and Tejada is the same. This time next year, both are probably gone and Snyder and Bell (picked up in the Sherrill deal)are probably slotted at the corners.
Could see them maybe moving Pie, but they don’t absolutely have to do it. They can just let Montanez go and keep things as is for this year.
Frank – I stand corrected.
GB7 – Many thanks for the info and links. My wife, who grew up in Philadelphia, is disappointed that Bright House Field has only one cheesesteak stand. Looks like a nice ballpark.
Joe from Long Island
January 23rd, 2010 at 2:27 pm
Frank – I stand corrected.
GB7 – Many thanks for the info and links. My wife, who grew up in Philadelphia, is disappointed that Bright House Field has only one cheesesteak stand. Looks like a nice ballpark.
————————————————————
My pleasure, Joe. The hotel costs and restaurants are somewhat cheaper in Clearwater than in tampa and just as nice if costs are an issue.
I thought your wife was taking you along to stand in line to get her cheesesteaks. Enjoy, Joe.
Hi Joe, I live in Clearwater and go to the park to watch the minor league team the Threshers. It is a very nice little park. Think you will enjoy. It is a pretty straight shot from Tampa, depending on where you are staying about 20 to 40 minute drive… Nice drive over the causeway.
Joe, here is a link to the ballpark. Its called Brighthouse Field. http://web.minorleaguebaseball.....p?sid=t566
Thanks, Bronx Born. Any experience with getting tickets at the ballpark, or from scalpers? Wondering to do that, or the stubhub route.
Cashman hedged his bets on Tabata. All of the scouting reports I’ve read about him seem to all say the same thing: ‘if his power develops he could be an all star.’
Well, since his wrist surgery he’s shown little in way of power. Plus, it’s doubtful he will player CF in the bigs, which hurts is value even more.
Joe-
I usually get them right at the park. Never saw any scalpers there. This link goes to the spring training site and they have ticket info there..
http://mlb.mlb.com/spring_trai.....p?c_id=phi
Nick in SF in Napa
January 23rd, 2010 at 1:42 pm
Five titles have been won by expansion teams that came into the league either at the same time or after the Mariners did.
Tear worthy?
Nah. Patience is a virtue.
Took the Halos 42 years to claim a title – M’s still have a chance to beat that
Bronx Born and GB7 – I am sincerely grateful for the help. I’ve learned a lot, and I think I’ll try the 3/3 game there. I’ll be in my Yankee cap and T; my wife will have to make a decision, Yankee blue or Phillie red. That’s what she gets for marrying me.
Heyman says Yankees have an offer out to Damon.
damon has days to take low deal with #yankees. assuming he says no, theyll sign another OF soon from johnson, nady, winn, edmonds, dye
5 minutes ago from web
http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman
If/when the Mariners win a title (or even a pennant), I trust it will be won by a squad of legit players, unlike that rogues gallery of ‘roiders that the Angels featured in 2002.
Until then, I hope those tears of joy don’t turn into tears of sorrow until… Octoberish.
“Heyman says Yankees have an offer out to Damon.”
“Erica says it’s about damn time!”
I’m a bit surprised that Cabrera got $6M from the Orioles. That would seem to me to put Damon’s salary in that ballpark. It doesn’t appear from Heyman’s tweet that the Yankees agree.
How low is the offer?
Johnny, don’t let those cheap$kate moneybag$ Yankee$ rip you off!
totally off topic, but you don’t see a swing like this too often :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related
wow.
Tarheelyank
January 23rd, 2010 at 2:49 pm
“Heyman says Yankees have an offer out to Damon.”
“Erica says it’s about damn time!”
*************************
If this is a tease, its beyond cruelty
You hush up there Mr Nick!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don’t want to see the $teinbrenner$ making a $ap out of Johnny D!
Nick in SF in Napa
January 23rd, 2010 at 3:02 pm
I don’t want to see the $teinbrenner$ making a $ap out of Johnny D!
****************
Liar:coughcough:Liar
You care nothing about the feelings of Johnny Damon. You don’t want to lose our bet
Tarheelyank
January 23rd, 2010 at 2:49 pm
“Heyman says Yankees have an offer out to Damon.”
“Erica says it’s about damn time!”
***********
For the record-
If this is when it finally happens, I am giving my yesterday letter writing all of the credit.
I’d guess the yanks offered Damon 1year for 5million
please johnny, for once in your life.. forget the money, forget the big men up stairs, and do what you feel is right in your heart.. do it for the yankees fans who loved and supported you the last 4 years.. we all really want you back.
New post about — gulp — Johnny Damon. ERICA!
A couple of things about the Nady trade. At the time, the Yankees had gone a year and a half with a huge hole in their lineup due to the Sheffield trade (where they ended up getting nothing (Sanchez, Whelan, Claggett). The Yankees were desperately vulnerable against lefties and finally were able to land a decent righty bat in Nady. It was too late for 2008 despite the fact that Nady played well (over his head, really). They also hadn’t had a decent lefty in the bullpen since Mike Stanton left six years earlier. Despite having to trade one of their two decent outfield prospects at the time in Tabata, the trade was one that had to be made. These two glaring weaknesses had festered way too long.
Not sure what sort of hole that Sheffield left, but, he only played in 39 games and has been pretty much useless on defense for years. At $13 mil a season, he was even more useless.
In hindsight, Sheffield got hurt and it was all over for him. But Cashman didn’t know that when he traded Sheffield. The problem was that Cashman traded away a big right handed bat, didn’t replace it and the Yankees were stuck with being dominated by any schlock lefty the opposition came up with thru 2007 and the first half of 2008 until they finally got Nady (too late)