A window to the past
Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Jan 29, 2010 
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Everyone knows about the Yankees place in the history of the game and so it’s fitting in a lot of ways that they’re the only team left that does a full-blown Old Timer’s Day every year. I thought Mark did a great job this morning talking about the magic of Old Timer’s Day, and I think his suggestions on how to rejuvenate it were spot on – the idea of returning legends from other teams would absolutely make it even more amazing than it is now.
He’s right, too, about the lackluster turnout. I know it may not seem like a big attraction to the younger fans, but I’d offer that it’s worth it to come and see the Old Timers at least once. If only for the stories you’ll hear from folks who remember how it used to be.
I remember going to Old Timer’s Day in 2004 and, in particular, watching Bobby Murcer play. What stands out most for me though, isn’t what he did on the field. It was earlier that day, when I had a long conversation with Murcer about Thurman Munson, specifically about how the Yankees had kept Munson’s locker unchanged (and, literally, untouched) at the old Stadium.
Murcer was close to Munson and got emotional when he talked about the locker, and he mentioned a story that I then confirmed with a clubhouse attendant.
Normally, no one went near Munson’s locker – not the maids when they vacuumed, not the clubbies when they were doing laundry, not the players when they were looking for somewhere to drop some fan mail or a box of bats. Everyone just stayed away from the shrine.
But sometime in the middle of the 2003 season, a bouquet of flowers appeared one day on the bench in the middle of Munson’s locker. No one knew where the flowers came from. The equipment managers asked around, but no one had any idea. For days, and then weeks, the flowers lay there even as the smell became overwhelming. No one wanted to go in and take them out. It just wasn’t done.
Finally, as the odor became noxious, the flowers were removed by an attendant who literally tip-toed into the locker and grabbed the rotting stems. “It was strange because they just were there one day, and no one admitted to putting them there,” one attendant told me for a story in the Daily News. “And we all knew we should throw them out, but it was like, ‘What do you do? Just go pick them up?’ No one wanted to do it.”
I loved that story and so did Murcer, and I’ll always think of it when I think about Old Timer’s Day. I’d imagine that’s how most fans are, too: The best part about Old Timer’s Day is the memories.
In a last-ditch effort late last week after Damon himself called the team, Cashman, one of baseball’s best dealmakers, tried floating a contract of $6 million with $3 million deferred at no interest (with the promise it would be cleared with team boss Hal Steinbrenner, who was about to return from his honeymoon). But Damon wasn’t moved enough to respond.
-Heyman
***Unbelievable. Heyman and cohorts are upset with the Yankees for not breaking the budget when it’s clear they did all they can? Seriously – I’ve had enough of Damon already.
Hip surgery shook A-Rod, slugger says
Alex Rodriguez overcame a preseason steroids admission and a history of playoff slumps to help lead the Yankees to their first World Series title since 2000.
But it was his hip surgery in March that the slugger says had him “staring at retirement.”
“It was a commitment that I wanted to do for the team, and it was very scary,” Rodriguez said in an interview with YES Network to air Friday night, according to the New York Post. “And I knew I was putting my, you know, the rest of my career at risk.
“But I felt that with the team at hand it was, it was a risk worth taking.”
Rodriguez had torn cartilage repaired in his right hip and missed the first month of the season.
“So, overall it was an adventurous year but, uh, I’m glad that’s behind me now and we get a chance to continue to build on the positives,” Rodriguez said in the YES Network interview.
A more extensive procedure in the offseason had been expected, but an MRI test last month showed the three-time MVP had properly healed, and further surgery wasn’t needed.
“I think I grew up a lot both on and off the field and, again, staring at retirement right in the face … that’s the first thing I thought of,” Rodriguez said.
Rodriguez, who was lauded last week with the Babe Ruth Award as the New York chapter of the Baseball Writers’ Association of America’s postseason MVP, was the Yankees’ top hitter in the playoffs, batting .365 with six home runs and 18 RBIs. He had 30 homers and 100 RBIs during his injury-shortened regular season.
“For me, I was just so tired of the whole ‘unclutch’ thing,” Rodriguez said, referring to a history of previous playoff struggles. “It was just, you know, very annoying, but to come over and be part of a championship team and get some of the biggest hits of my career and to deliver for my teammates when they needed me, that certainly feels really good and I’m very relieved.”
IMO it’s those memories, shared in conversation in and around Old Timer’s Day, that make the event, not really what goes on out on the grass. That’s the part we fans will never see or hear for the most part, regardless who they invite.
I’ll concede that much privacy to the Boys of Summer.
All I know about Old Timers Day is that it’s a chance for me to see my beloved Yankees, many of whom I haven’t seen in years. I adore Ken Griffey, Sr. for example – I love seeing him once a year. I don’t care about making it more exciting – for me, it’s just about the players. In years to come, I look forward to seeing our current group of players again – and I know I will get emotional.
“Unbelievable. Heyman and cohorts are upset with the Yankees for not breaking the budget when it’s clear they did all they can? Seriously – I’ve had enough of Damon already.”
Betsy:
Where in that piece did Heyman seem in any way upset with the Yankees?
Betsy -Romine wasn’t built in a day:
Heyman is addicted to the same crap as Loopyca; the Yankees are damned if they do and damned if they don’t. The story writes itself either way. Spend too much like last year and they are ruining Baseball. Spend too little and not get Damon and the Yankee Front Office are incompetent boobs, screwing the fans over.
Really, guys…. and I mean you, Loopy and Heyman. Stop with the disingenuous, “gotcha,” stories.
“Where in that piece did Heyman seem in any way upset with the Yankees?”
Frank:
Fair comment. I’m inferring, maybe I shouldn’t where Heyman is concerned.
Didnt know we started a new thread. Thank god.
Just wondering how much The Pavano but master sold for yesterday?
I always watch the Old Timers day intros. I skip when they play the game. It kind of depresses me watching the older guys try to play.
I tend to disagree with the previous post.
I actually think the Yankees do a great job with Old Timer’s Day.
I think the fans, with the exception of a small minority, don’t care enough to attend.
The Yankees are still the only team to do it and they bring in guys from all over country to be a part of it.
Perhaps they stopped bringing in opposing players because the amount of ex-Yankees who wanted to participate grew so large that the team didn’t want to say “no” to their own players.
While it’d be a hoot to see Eddie Murray and Cal Ripken Jr. come play against the Yankees on Old Timer’s Day, I’d still rather see Alvaro Espinoza and Henry Cotto.
That said, in the coming years when more and more of the ’96 and on players start participating, perhaps there will be better attendance.
I still think that today’s fan has little interest in the older players and seeing them. I think they’d rather have that extra hour or two at home before coming to the game or spend the time tailgating or pre-gaming in a bar.
MLBTR: Marlins sign Jose Veras to a minor league deal. Fella was DFA’d twice in a year. What are they thinking?
murphydog
January 29th, 2010 at 12:15 pm
I’ll concede that much privacy to the Boys of Summer.
**************************
Not that this will be cool to anyone but me, but as soon as I read your post, “Boys of Summer” came on my ipod.
yikes, sounds like every one has cabin fever today.
SoS- I thought I saw that Cairo had been offered a minor league contract, but didn’t catch what team.
Frank, I believe he’s been killing the Yankees for not signing Winn; I’m not saying that that particular comment was killing them. Murphy, it’s why I don’t read Lupica; I’m much happier that way. Lupica and Madden…ick.
S.o.S.
January 29th, 2010 at 12:14 pm
Pretty hostile this morning. I think someone needs to get on the red bat phone and call Cash. Tell him to sign another free agent for minimum wage just so we can start another thread. Whats Cairo up to these days?
————————————————————
The Reds signed Cairo. Those dirty commies are signing up all of the free labor.
Re-post:
Regarding Damongate:
Well… then I humbly regress and apologize to all parties involved.
—————-
Randy,
I hope you didn’t take my comments as in any way being directed towards SJ44. If so, I really do need another cup of coffee.
There are several, what I consider, “senior posters” (not necessarily in age!) in here whose comments I regularly read and take in high regard. These are the people I have learned something from and it’s a big part of the reason I continue come in here. Well that and to have a few laughs.
Anyway, I would probably put SJ44 at the very top of that group of posters.
Not sure if anyone posted this article on the Crawford possibility for 2011.
http://bleacherreport.com/arti.....es-in-2011
I think the Heyman article actually made the Yankees sound fair and like heroes and made Damon appear smaller. It’s interesting because if you read it, you see the Yankees made 2 offers the initial 2 for 14 and then a last minute 6 million offer for a year.
They gave Damon 2 chances to show he wanted to come back at here at the dollars the Yankees felt were fair and he passed.
All this talk about him being open to being traded back to the Yankees at mid season annoys me.
At this point he’ll be lucky to get 5 million guaranteed. He could have had a million more and not had to worry about going to a bad team that could potentially trade him back here.
Bad job by Damon. Heyman, who usually would make a Boras guy seem like a hero in this situation, in my eyes exposed him to be smaller.
I’m going to continue to be Chip-like and advocate for Crawford next offseason.
“Not sure if anyone posted this article on the Crawford possibility for 2011.
http://bleacherreport.com/arti…..es-in-2011″
sounds like a plan to me,.
Bronx, not a prob. I adjust very well to the Yankee way of life. When a player leaves, I always accept it as the Yankees knowing more than I do (if it’s a player I wish were still here.) When they bring a player on board, I always accept it as the Yankees knowing more than I do (if it’s a player I don’t necessarily want.)
I still miss Bobby Abreu and wish he were still with the team. But I have much more trust in the organization’s complete knowledge of any situation, and their blueprint for the future, than I do in my own or that of any other poster.
So I smile and cheer.
GLove, yes – I agree. In this case, Heyman did a good job. I always believed Cash did his best anyway, but I’m glad to see that the truth is coming out. We probably shouldn’t be so quick to condemn Boras who appears to have done exactly what his client wanted him to
Also, I don’t think the Yankees will try and trade for Damon at the deadline if LF isn’t working out. The fact that Damon didn’t even respond, even to say “no, thanks” is very telling…..It’s pretty disrespectful. As I said before, no way I’m trading prospects for Damon (if he’s even available at the deadline, the trading team would absolutely instill a Yankee tax, knowing that Damon would be the best fit for the Yankees). It’s over and done with and the Yankees should move on completely.
Sam great piece here on the Munson story.
Which brings me to another point. Am I the only person who believes that the Yankeee Museum in the stadium is cramped and small? I appreciate the Yanks moved Munson’s locker to the museum and it’s interesting but it would be better to devote more space to his impact and greatness. In addition it seems the “era” sections are way too small without providing enough material, artifacts, player bioss than what they are showing today. The basesball display is ncie but again takes up way too much of the space they have allocated. They need a larger museum space and the people will come, and they will be there for the day games and non day games- Winter, Spring Summer and Fall. Thats how big the Yankee following is.
“Also, I don’t think the Yankees will try and trade for Damon at the deadline if LF isn’t working out.”
I agree with that. If Cash wouldn’t give the money for Damon, he’s not going to give prospects+money for him at the trade deadline unless the prospects are very mediocre.
ANother example of the fallability of Scott Boros?
“I hope you didn’t take my comments as in any way being directed towards SJ44. If so, I really do need another cup of coffee.”
bronx jeers-
no , i was backing up your post by adding my own two cents worth.
Trisha, not trying to set you up, but who were you talking about here:
“You are then hearing from the bereaved Damon lover who had decided that Damon just had to be brought back – or else. And now that person will lash out at everyone and everything because their Johnny isn’t coming back”
Any actual person that regularly comments on LoHud?
Starting rotation is set. 4 out of 5 anyway. Competition for #5.
Outfield is set. 2 out of 3 anyway. Competition for 1 slot.
Starting Infield is set. Competition for utility infielder.
Bullpen: Rivera, Aceves, and Marte are set. Robertson should be ok unless he regresses in ST. Competition for 3 more slots.
DH is set w/Johnson and a rotating cast of characters.
Folks, I think we’re almost done here.
But I still think there’s just one more move to make before ST.
DaSaint -
I’ll go you one (or two) better.
I think not only will Crawford be a Yankee next year, but so will Werth and either Cliff Lee or Josh Beckett.
MLBTR is reporting that the Indians were/are exploring the idea of trading Fausto Carmona to free up the money to sign Orlando Hudson.
NON YANKEE TRADE SUGGESTION
Mets get Fausto Carmona
Indians get Jonathan Niese, Dan Murphy, Bobby Parnell.
what did I miss?
“They gave Damon 2 chances to show he wanted to come back at here at the dollars the Yankees felt were fair and he passed.”
Generally agree, but would add that it appears Cashman’s offer to Johnson was already made when he countered Boras’ 2/$26M with 2/$14M. Cashman obviously wasn’t going to sign both guys, at least not at that money. Not saying Cashman was being in anyway disingenuous, especially if he told Boras he was close to locked in on a more financially appealing #2 hitter, but I do wonder just how serious an offer that was.
Uncle Ellsworth (Expert textpert choking smokers, don’t you think the joker laughs at you)
January 29th, 2010 at 12:51 pm
what did I miss?
***********************
not much-just a lot of bickering back and forth. Take a stroll through the last thread if you’re up for it.
“I think I’ll take the other side, like any good lawyer should be able to do – or so I’ve been told.”
———————–
Trisha,
As a student in law school, I would be thrilled to hear what kind of law you practice that you are able to log onto lohud in the middle of the day.
Not trying to be offensive but, I would sure like to have time to do that in a few years.
If you feel uncomfortable answering, no problem…
randy
I read your posts and just shake my head but also realise it is just the rambling of an old bullpen catcher.
Uncle-short hand version:
Chip: “my opinions matter:
SJ: “no they don’t”
GI Joe: “SJ you’re a jerk. Lets have a fist fight”
SJ: “Any time any place”
It was an offer that if accepted, Damon would be a Yankee today and Nick Johnson would be in SF.
This all gets back to the point that Cash wasn’t going to be left without a backup plan. He knows that if he painted himself in that corner, Boras would look to ram a Damon deal down his throat.
Its really not more complicated than that.
Why would the Mets want to trade 3 guys for Carmona? He hasn’t been the same pitcher since 2007.
Given Cleveland’s financial problems, you can get him for a lot less, if the Mets are so inclined.
“what did I miss?”
A great opportunity for a “Meet Me Under The Banner!” reference.
come on Saint, tell us what move is left…when it happens you can get the credit for being first
Per Extra Bases, the RS sign Molina to a mL deal.
Gustavo.
“I think not only will Crawford be a Yankee next year, but so will Werth and either Cliff Lee or Josh Beckett.”
Man I hope you’re right. I don’t think they will sign a RFer though because I think that might be Jeter’s once he finally can’t play SS anymore. Would be a great spot for him to finish up, not much ground to cover and fitting since thats where he got most of his hits and HR’s.
2012 outfield: Crawford, Granderson, Jeter. Just a hunch…could be wrong.
Erin:
“The Boys of Summer” by Don Henley. Excellent tune, incredible timing.
But let’s not forget “The Boys of Summer” by Roger Kahn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T.....%28book%29
Chip,
Sigh…I have to agree with you. I too think that next offseason is poised for an OF and 1 SP, with Crawford and Lee as the top candidates. Crawford because of his age, all-round complementary capabilities and base-stealing threat, and Lee because he’s left-handed, is in his prime, and Andy may want to retire.
I do think that there are backup solutions, as Werth for RF, and Beckett or Webb come to mind for the pitchers.
And I’m not commenting on the Metsies here. I hope they continue to wallow in their nonsensical decisionmaking.
Molina signed a minor league deal with the Sox? Wow.
I think the Phillies will sign Werth. I think they are just waiting to make sure he can put together another good year. They are doing a good job signing their players to deals that give them a 2-3 year window toward another shot at a championship.
Unless the Red Sox re-sign him, I think Beckett will end up in Texas with Nolan Ryan, now that Ryan has control of the team.
I think the Yankees will bid whatever it takes to get Lee and Crawford. I believe those are the guys on their radar and why they are sticking to their guns on a budget for 2010.
murphydog
January 29th, 2010 at 1:00 pm
Erin:
“The Boys of Summer” by Don Henley. Excellent tune, incredible timing.
But let’s not forget “The Boys of Summer” by Roger Kahn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T…..%28book%29
*********************
Of course. I must admit, I’ve never read it, but I can remember my dad saying that it’s once of the best baseball books he’s ever read
SJ44 -
So next year I guess we can look forward to recycled “the Yankees throw money at free agents” stories?
Erin:
Your dad was right. Give it a shot, make his day
Kate, I don’t think there’ll be much credit needed. There aren’t that many real areas of need left.
But Cashman did say his priorities were Pitching, pitching, pitching, Left-field and DH.
“It was an offer that if accepted, Damon would be a Yankee today and Nick Johnson would be in SF.”
How do we know? Offers were on the table for both guys. What if Johnson agreed to the Yankees term before Damon did? First come, first serve? In Sherman’s piece yesterday, he indicated the Yankees did not dispute Boras’ contention that Johnson had 1st dibs when they countered a 2/$14M. That can only mean one of two things. 1) They were prepared to sign both or 2) The 2/$14M was subject to Johnson passing on the Yankees offer.
Were they prepared to sign both?
Doreen:
“So next year I guess we can look forward to recycled “the Yankees throw money at free agents” stories?”
Those stories are out being re-painted and detailed for next year while the media chuckles to itself and chides the Yankees for not spending enough this year
The Yankees are making a huge assumption that Crawford is going to be available in FA. What happens if he re-signs with the Rays or the team the Rays trade him to (if they do trade him)? What’s their contingency plan? Crawford is hardly worth putting other plans on hold like CC. As to Lee, other teams will be going after him; I hope the Yankees are not counting on being able to sign him.
Betsy -Romine wasn’t built in a day
January 29th, 2010 at 1:04 pm
Molina signed a minor league deal with the Sox? Wow.
—————————————-
Not Jose.
Gustavo.
Doreen,
Exactly! LOL
Matsui and Damon made 26 million in combined salary in 2009.
Vasquez, Johnson, Winn and Granderson will make a combined 24.5 million in 2010.
Basically, they have added 4 players in the salary space taken by Matsui and Damon in 2009.
But Cashman did say his priorities were Pitching, pitching, pitching, Left-field and DH.
____________
So Cash did OK, not great but OK on the pitching and blew it on the LF and DH roles. Seems he needs to work with Long on his batting average.
SJ:
“Basically, they have added 4 players in the salary space taken by Matsui and Damon in 2009.”
They are ruining the game!!!!!!! lol
I wouldn’t be so quick to retire Andy Pettitte to a rocking chair just yet. I believe that he will surprise people in 2010 just as much as he shocked a lot of people in the media and people on this board in 2009.
“I read your posts and just shake my head but also realise it is just the rambling of an old bullpen catcher”
maine yankee-
you do realize, with all the concussions i’ve had , the blood flow through my pre frontal cortex is diminished thus diminishing my impulse control.
just thought you might want to take that into account
Frank,
They were not going to sign both and they valued Johnny enough to offer him more money than Nick Johnson. If Johnny said yes, they would have signed him. Nick was the backup choice.
Betsy,
In many cases, especially when players do backchannel work and find out a big market team has interest in them, they hit free agency.
Its doubtful the Rays are going to pay him what he is looking for. If they do, they move onto another guy.
Chances are though, Crawford is going to hit the market. If he does hit the market, I believe the odds are overwhelming he will be a Yankee.
Has “The Idiot’s Guide To Understanding Randy L” already gone into a second printing?
Cabin Fever.
randy
I thought it had something to do with living amongst the “enemy”.
Listening to them can really scramble the brain.
SJ, I completely agree. I think that CC, AJ, and Lee make a good top 3, with two of those three being lefties, and by that time the team hopes that both Joba and Hughes can fill in the last two slots.
I think that Pettitte may not retire however (ala Wakefield), but that’s ok also, as it makes it ‘easy’ for the team to select between Hughes and Joba for the #5 slot. Were that to happen, there could be 3 lefties in the rotation.
Crawford, now that Holliday is out of the equation, becomes the best fit for LF, should he not be offered and accept a contract extension by the Rays. But I don’t think they’ll offer him one because they reportedly have good young talent available to replace him, and a $80+MM contract to 1 player would be prohibitive for them in that market. I could however, see them trading him so as not to lose face to their fans, which is where the Yankee system comes into play. In this particular case, I think Cashman may consider trading for him AND signing him to a contract extension. I’m still split on this, because I know it’s not Cash’s style.
If Gardner is successful this year however, it could lessen the need to pursue Crawford, or it could make him the center of the trade package. Time will tell.
Saint
Oh, lol. I didn’t think that made sense…..
“Has “The Idiot’s Guide To Understanding Randy L” already gone into a second printing?”
I have an autographed first edition.
Why would the Mets want to trade 3 guys for Carmona?
Parnell, Niese and Murphy aren’t exactly 3 bigtime players here…but whatever, you didn’t suggest it and so we know what road this is heading down if I choose to argue with you and frankly it’s the Mets, they aren’t worth the headache to me.
I can’t agree that Vasquez is just an “ok” addition to the team.
Too many people have 2004 still in their heads.
How many teams have a #4 starter as good as Javy Vasquez in the game today? I can’t think of one. Certainly not the Red Sox.
He’s a very good pitcher and he gives the Yankees what they need in that slot. Namely, innings and a chance to be in games in most of his starts due to his consistency.
Granderson is a better player than Johnny at this stage of their respective careers. that’s an upgrade for the Yankees.
Matsui will be missed. No question about that. However, if Robbie Cano can handle the #5 spot in the order, then he will be missed less because Robbie is certainly capable of putting up big numbers in that spot.
Teams change every year. In this case, the Yankees improved their defense and pitching and may be down a bit offensively.
All in all though, I think they had a good off-season.
So Curt Warner is more than likely retiring. Is he H.O.F. bound. He had about 4 to 5 good seasons in his career. But his playoffs have been awesome.
Chip,
Who is arguing with you. A martyr syndrome doesn’t fit you.
DaSaint –
Of course all bets on Crawford and Lee are off if Mr. Joe Mauer and the Twins don’t agree to a new contract.
I sincerely hope they do. Much as I would like Mauer on the Yankees there are certain guys I think should only wear one uniform:
Mo
Jeter
Pujols
Mauer
Varitek
Chipper
Oh, Gustavo Molina, lol. That makes more sense (even though I’ve never heard of him).
SJ, I’m not sure how I feel about that. I don’t want the Yankees giving big $$$ to a guy whose whole game is dependent on his legs.
I wish I could share what randy inscribed in my copy, but that would violate the TOS.
Betsy -Romine wasn’t built in a day
January 29th, 2010 at 1:15 pm
Oh, lol. I didn’t think that made sense…..
———————————–
You took the bait I cast out.
“Has “The Idiot’s Guide To Understanding Randy L” already gone into a second printing?”
no , but there’s been such a high demand for a viral you tube video, i’m going to go test the ice on one of our cape cod ponds with full video coverage.
“How many teams have a #4 starter as good as Javy Vasquez in the game today?”
I’m not sure the Yankees have a #2 starter as good as Javier Vazquez.
He’s #4 in name only. He’s the 2nd best starter they have right now, IMO.
I see it as Cashman saw an opportunity to sign the player with the 3rd highest OBP of 2009 to a cheap, one year deal and felt he had to act quick.
A final offer for Johnny for 2 yrs as DH is made and the answer was no.
Hello Nick Johnson as DH, goodbye Damon.
And even then it seems they were willing to try and offer him a spot as the regular LF albeit @ 1 yr with deferred money. (I don’t think they would offer 5-6 mil to be a part timer.)
The answer was no again so Gardner (who they like and already gave a spot to on Opening Day last season) gets another shot and Winn becomes the backup OF/Pinch-runner/hitter which I believe he can handle.
Betsy,
The Yankees paid $52MM over 4 years to a guy who depended on his legs. His name was Johnny Damon. He was 32+ at the time.
“I can’t agree that Vasquez is just an “ok” addition to the team.”
vasquez could lead baseball in wins in 2010 and be a a cy young contender.
he has that potential.
Nick,
Longhorns got the #2 and #4 recruits to commit. Can you say RELOAD.
Question –
Let’s say the following things happen:
1. Andy is out performed by Vazquez but also says that he wants to pitch in 2011
2. Hughes or Joba (whichever one is in the five spot) pitches well enough to lock up that spot
3. Lee, Beckett, Webb, and Yu Darvish are all available.
What do you do if you’re Cashman?
Do you bring back Andy because he’s Andy despite his age and the fact that he was outperformed by Vazquez and the fact that there are better pitchers on the market? Or do you take the PR hit for letting Andy go for the second time.
“So Curt Warner is more than likely retiring. Is he H.O.F. bound. He had about 4 to 5 good seasons in his career. But his playoffs have been awesome.”
Yes, 2 MVP’s. Took 2 bad franchises on his shoulders to the Super Bowl. I hope he gets in.
Now, I’m not the most superstitious person… but reading the Munson story, there is something kinda odd. So, no one ever touched Munsons locker, and then suddenly in 2003 that changes, not once but twice someone went to the locker. Well, 2003 they lose to the Marlins, and then the next year 2004… well we know what happened. Not until the Yanks leave the building altogether do they win another WS. I am by no means saying its because someone altered sacred ground, but if you can blame things on a billy goat…..
The only thing that would make that story even crazier is if a Red Sox person/fan put the flowers there to begin with lol
Regarding my above question – that’s pretty much the scenario that Boston found themselves in with Jason Varitek before the 2008 season. Tek had a bad year but indicated he wanted to return and Theo felt backed into a corner to bring him back.
Johnny Damon on the FAN now giving his side of the story.
Frank and Randy,
I agree.
I will always believe Javy got a bad rap in 2004.
He was an All Star that year and his shoulder started barking in the second half of the season.
By the time the playoffs came, he wasn’t healthy enough to pitch, IMO. But, he tried to pitch and it didn’t work out.
Instead of Torre defending his guts in trying to pitch, he sort of hung him out to dry. I thought that was unfair.
Here we are 6 years later and he’s coming off a great season and coming back in his walk year. To me, all signs point to him having a big season for the Yankees.
S.o.S.
January 29th, 2010 at 1:17 pm
So Curt Warner is more than likely retiring. Is he H.O.F. bound. He had about 4 to 5 good seasons in his career. But his playoffs have been awesome.
****************************
Figured that would happen. Now the burning question is: will Brett Favre retire?
“Do you bring back Andy because he’s Andy despite his age and the fact that he was outperformed by Vazquez and the fact that there are better pitchers on the market? Or do you take the PR hit for letting Andy go for the second time.”
If Andy has a bad year I don’t think he will want to come back. I really think this is probably it one way or another for him.
Chip,
To answer your question:
1. CC is making a Gazillion $$ over 7 years.
2. AJ is making $82MM over 4 more.
3. You sign Lee to a 4 year deal.
4. You resign Pettitte to a 1 year contract.
5. Hughes/Joba takes the slot.
You don’t sign Vazquez unless you can’t sign Lee. Vazquez, if he does very well, will want a 4 year contract. You can’t clog up 4 of the 5 rotation slots with expensive long-term contracts.
It flies in the face of financial flexibility.
chip,
can you paraphrase what johnny is saying?
Figured that would happen. Now the burning question is: will Brett Favre retire?
========
Erin,
Thats easy. Of course he will. Till late August that is.
It is UNPRECEDENTED that a player is commenting on negotiations with his departing team and he hasn’t even signed with a new team.
Not smart Johnny.
S.o.S.
January 29th, 2010 at 1:30 pm
Figured that would happen. Now the burning question is: will Brett Favre retire?
========
Erin,
Thats easy. Of course he will. Till late August that is.
*********************
Of course. What was I thinking? I should know better! lol
Johnny is on the WFAN right now. Explaining why he wanted a 2 year deal from the Yanks. I really don’t understand why he needed 2 years from the Yanks when he is going to play at a bargain price for a 3rd place team like Tampa or the A’s. Johnny is either really dumb or didn’t really want to be a Yankee.
It goes back to Cash’s and many GM’s belief that, players don’t like taking huge paycuts to return to their teams.
They would rather play for less elsewhere.
Doesn’t make much sense to me, especially in Johnny’s case but, it is what it is.
blake: agreed about Andy Pettite. If he doesn’t have a good enough year to make the Yankees want him back, he probably would retire. A number of circumstances could foul that scenario up, of course.
And if Javy does really well, they offer him arbitration. If he accepts, they get him at a good price; if he declines, they can negotiate with him or take the picks.
Nick, I don’t know anyone in particular that took the stance. Murphydog referred to comments that would indicate Cashman didn’t bring Damon back out of spite. So I characterized anyone who would think that as “bereaved Damon lovers” etc.
let’s go yankees, I used to practice employment discrimination law – when I had a job. I quit that job abruptly last year and am now setting up shop at home. So since I am totally my own boss now, I can decide when to log in!
Damon is talking about the fact that he’s now talking to other teams who are more creative abbout the AAV.
He STILL thinks he can come back!! Is he delusional??
The Yanks offer to Damon was just about the same as the contract that Mike Cameron signed with the BoSox
According to Johnny
1. Told Boras he wanted 2 years with the Yankees. Wouldn’t take a 1 year deal.
2. After Andy signed Boras presented Yankees with 2 years 26 mil
3. Yankees responded with 2 years 14 mil
4. Boras responded with 2 years 22 mil
5. Yankees signed Nick Johnson and that was the last Johnny heard from them.
If Damon were to be on the trading block this summer he would only approve a deal to NYY.
Johnny said the Yanks never made him a final offer before they signed Winn. But the Post and Heyman both say the Yanks talked to him about a $3m with $3m deferred deal and he never got back to them. He and Boras aren’t telling the truth.
DaSaint, I think one thing I learned about Damon is that despite being one heck of a gritty player and a nice guy, he definitely is not a rocket scientist.
When he coined the word “idiots” to describe the Suxers, I don’t think he realizes how literal he was being about himself. But then, he never tried to sell himself as a Rhodes scholar.
I am serious when I say that I think he is totally well meaning but dumb as a stump.
DaSaint -
Do you sign Andy regardless of performance if he wants to return to the Yankees?
Damon is fine for post game sound bites and the like, but this is a train wreck. He really should have let Boras handle this for him.
Maybe Damon thinks that the Yankees can trade Nick Johnson and bring him back. I don’t get it.
He actually said that he could come back next year. He loves playing in New York, and his fourth year was his best since they won the World Series.
LOL. Just said that he hope that Jeter’s not offered a 45% paycut.
One thing about Javy- he obviously did not want to leave NY. So, I doubt his “failures” had anything to do with not being able to pitch here. I think it’s sad that he felt like his manager was not on his side.
Rachel =
It’s also possible that Heyman and the other writers have their facts wrong.
According to Cashman last night on Hot Stove, when asked if the Winn signing closed the door on Johnny, Cash responded with “Regardless of what’s being speculated in the press, the door on Johnny was pretty much closed weeks ago.”
Seems to back up the fact that the last Damon offer went out long before Winn was signed.
“If Damon were to be on the trading block this summer he would only approve a deal to NYY.”
Anyone need any land underwater in Florida? If so I have some and would sell it to you at a very reasonable price.
If anyone buys that tripe, they’re as dumb as Damon! I seem to remember him telling the press during his last year with the Suxers that he would never want to play for the New York Yankees…
So the lowest contract Johnny would have gone with the Yankees was 2 years 11 mil per.
I think it would have been wild if they could have somehow kept Thuruman’s locker in its original “footprint” and turned it into a monument in the new park. Name the whole thing Thurman Munson Park instead of the rather unremarkable current name “Heritage Field”
I think it would be somewhere near the southern border? of the park as well.
Anybody know what’s going on with save Gate 2 initiative? It seemed dead last I heard.
I really choose to believe Cash on this…….nothing Damon says will convince me to do otherwise.
“If Damon were to be on the trading block this summer he would only approve a deal to NYY.”
I’m sure the front office of whichever team signs him will get a chuckle out of that.
If he believes for a second he’s getting any kind of NTC, he’s delusional.
Damon really needs a brain of his own when he has Boras as his agent. He said Yanks offered 2 years $7m a year but that was only if Nick J. didnt accept his offer. I am sure that is BS. He probably had that offer on the table for at least a week but when he didn’t get back to the Yanks they had to move on. He said he only would of came back for $11m a year for 2 years.
Johnny is damaging the prospect of Boras obtaining a good deal for him elsewhere if he keeps this up.
I lost my feed. Boras must have pulled the plug!
Frank,
Johnny has battled a stuttering problem for years.
Francessa pining away for Damon – now that’s a train wreck.
damon w mike
“Instead of Torre defending his guts in trying to pitch, he sort of hung him out to dry. I thought that was unfair.”
Ah, I remember him well. Torre that is. His middle name was “I’ve always got your back – with a knife.”
Chip:
I’m aware of the stuttering problem. This is more of an issue of content for me.
The Yankees price was 2/$22m but now a team will get him in the bargian aisle for $5m.
thanks chip,
it doesn’t make sense. he clearly wants to be a yankee. the yankees clearly wanted him back. i understand the financial component, but his chances of getting into the hall are less with a 3rd place club than they are with the yankees.
Chip,
Andy only returns if he has a winning season. 12-12 won’t cut it. He’ll need to maintain a 14 or 15 win season, with 10 losses or less to be seriously considered for 1 year contracts.
“i understand the financial component, but his chances of getting into the hall are less with a 3rd place club than they are with the yankees.”
Yankees or not, he was never getting into the HOF without a ticket.
Yeah, what makes Damon think he’ll get a no trade clause?
Unbelievable.
As much as Francesa is going to try and spin this into a “beat up on Cashman day” I don’t think any Yankee fan can argue with the fact that 2 years $14 mil was a fair offer and, if you look around the league, giving Damon 11 mil per over 2 years would have been silly.
From what you guys are saying, it sounds like Johnny is attempting damage control, and not succeeding.
I will miss him, along w/ Melky and Matsui, but as Trish would say, Yankee life goes on.
I thought it was pretty funny that Damon was talking about Derek’s contract and that he hopes the Yankees treat Derek the right way. Seemed like he was comparing himself to Derek.
Busy morning so it looks like I missed a lot of fireworks.
I don’t know who trisha was referring to, but there’s one poster not named Erica who was livid, distraught, disgusted beyond belief. But that person seems to have calmed down a bit.
Damon! What’re you thinking going on the radio! Going as low as 2/22 is not reason for sympathy. For reasons that we went over on last night’s thread.
Did he spin the bs about wanting to witness Jeter’s 3000th hit?
No question Mike will blame Cash, but I won’t be listening to him, so it won’t bother me.
“Murphydog referred to comments that would indicate Cashman didn’t bring Damon back out of spite”
Well, that is indeed loopy, but a deranged Boras hater would be just as likely to suggest such a thing as a deranged Damon lover, no?
Unless murphydog was referring to another type of derangement altogether, such as the folks who think Cashman is deliberately weakening the team to feed his own ego, or some such silliness.
Yeah, what makes Damon think he’ll get a no trade clause?
the same ego that made him think he was getting 11 mil per year.
Fran, why not? Boras already compared him to Jeter. LOL Seriously, it sounds like Damon thinks the Yankees low-balled him, given that he’s apparently stating that he hopes the Yanks don’t do the same for Jeter. Please.
I thought it was pretty funny that Damon was talking about Derek’s contract and that he hopes the Yankees treat Derek the right way. Seemed like he was comparing himself to Derek.
At the start of the offseason Boras compared him to Posada, and recently Boras compared him to Alex, so Derek was likely the next guy in line.
“the same ego that made him think he was getting 11 mil per year.”
Sadly, I’m not sure that’s the case. I think he doesn’t know any better.
Why couldn’t they just incentive-ize the hell out of whatever they offered something like “Okay Jonny meet or exceed last years numbers and you’ll get 10 million.”
“Fall short you get 6.”
Wouldn’t that have been a win-win for everybody?
I actually don’t understand why there isn’t a lot more of this going on especially with the Yankees with their unique financial resources etc…
Didn’t Pettite make virtually all his money last year on inning by inning benchmarks and win totals?
His last 2 months of the season I swear I remembered listening to Michael Kay talking about how Andy would make X million dollars after 150, 170, and 200 innings or something.
You don’t sign Vazquez unless you can’t sign Lee. Vazquez, if he does very well, will want a 4 year contract. You can’t clog up 4 of the 5 rotation slots with expensive long-term contracts.
___
didnt vazquez say he didnt mind being on one year contracts the rest of his career?
Flash: Yankees trade Nick Johnson to Giants for reliever Jeremy Affeldt. Sign Johnny Damon as DH.
Not.
Bottom line: Damon wanted to come back but not enough to compromise.
Mike F just called Damon an ‘accessory’. He’s older, breaking down. He’s not a ‘core’ player. ‘He’s an extra player’.
He’s actually talking up Granderson and Johnson. I’ve heard it all.
Mike right now is saying that Granderson, Johnson and Gardner is offensively a wash to Damon, Matsui, Melky and defensively a better team.
As one who believes that Winn will end up starting in LF this season – I would say the Yankees actually end up with a net gain offensively and still vastly better defensively in the OF than they were last year.
Good bye Johnny. Good luck on your next contract. I’m sure GMs all over the league just loved your remarks about positioning to be traded in mid-season.
this whole 45% paycut crap is what it is. CRAP. Comparing that saying that ‘would we want a 45% cut’ is just annoying. 45% for someone making 100K is a lot different than the guy making 13M. You dont want the 6 mil, i’ll gladly take it.
i liked damon, but come on with this crap already.
DaSaint -
Agreed, I had to do a doubletake when I heard it.
“I always watch the Old Timers day intros. I skip when they play the game. It kind of depresses me watching the older guys try to play.”
I understand this feeling – it’s the way I feel about watching the rock bands of my youth trying to make a buck today. I find it sad to see Clapton selling phones or to see a stage full of 60 year old fat guys recreating their 40 year old hits.
However, I went to an Old Timers game in the 60′s with my Dad and Joe Dimaggio hit a home run. We were sitting in the lower deck in left field, just on the fair side of the foul pole and about 10 rows back. The ball landed about 5 rows in front of us. Now that’s a great memory – so glad I was able to see it!
Betsy, seriously I haven’t been paying attention to the never-ending “fine points” involved in the Cashman/Boras/Damon drama, just because I find it infinitely uninteresting. I go bottom line and for me it’s that the Yankees didn’t want him enough or he’d be here.
But I’ll say this – if I had to believe one person’s version of events and the versions really varied from each other, and the two contestants were Cashman and Damon, Cashman would win hands down.
Just getting back to the blog and catching up a bit…
======================================================
SJ44
January 29th, 2010 at 1:09 pm
Doreen,
Exactly! LOL
Matsui and Damon made 26 million in combined salary in 2009.
Vasquez, Johnson, Winn and Granderson will make a combined 24.5 million in 2010.
Basically, they have added 4 players in the salary space taken by Matsui and Damon in 2009.
===========================================================
I think that Melky is being forgotten here…
I see Winn as Melky’s 2010 replacement for about 1mil less.
I would rather have Melky but I guess he was worth giving up for HV.
Anyone else feel a little dumber after listening to that interview??
Where on earth was Boras?
Betsy and Chip,
Should have realized that Damon would carry on for Boras.
I think he’s wrong about the lineup – he has Granderson pencilled into the 8th spot. I see Granderson as the number 5 hitter on this team.
Jeter
Johnson
Tex
Alex
Granderson
Posada
Cano
Swisher
Gardner/Winn
ill agree about the wash offensively to a point, however, johnson will likely have a .400 OBP in front of two of the best hitters in baseball and this ability to hit for average will help jeter, and gardner later in the game. More rbis for alex and tex.
Hard to predict how the trios compare offensively. Damon and Matsui might not be as productive.
But I’m pretty psyched for the season. Just need to settle the last bench player, settle on the 5th starter, and round out the bullpen.
Damon was a great teammate and the consummate pro, but the suspense of whether or not he’s coming back is probably over.
These are almost your 2010 New York Yankees.
What Damon meant when refering to Jeter was he hoped he wouldn’t have to take a 45% pay cut. This sounds like union talk more than comparing himself to Jeter. He also mentioned Dye as well.
I would rather have Melky but I guess he was worth giving up for HV.
___
? is HV supposed to be Javy Vazquez?
For all those who recommend that players ignore their representatives and ‘negotiate’ directly with teams, I submit to you this recently completed Damon interview.
I’m sure Boras told him not to do it, but he insisted. In fact, he admitted that he spoke directly with the Yankees. Guess that didn’t do much for him.
I’m stunned. I shouldn’t be, but I am.
DaSaint,
lol. Maybe Johnny got confused? The new plan is to sit out until the deadline and sign with the team of his choice.
This might actually be his best bet right now.
This whole sorry saga reminds me, again, of the Seinfeld episode in which George turns down the NBC offer for a pilot and Russell the NBC president moves on.
(From memory)
Susan: Russell doesn’t play games.
George: how can he not play??? It’s too late. We’re playing!!
No soup for you, Johnny.
As much as I wanted Damon back for one year, I would have been very disappointed if they gave him two years.
As for Matsui, it reminds me of when they replaced Jimmy Key with David Wells because their doctors thought that Key’s arm wouldn’t hold up. A lot of people questioned that at the time because Key was one of the guys that helped turn around the losing culture of the late ’80s and early ’90s. It turned out that their doctors were right. It could be the same with Matsui.
“I don’t know who trisha was referring to, but there’s one poster not named Erica who was livid, distraught, disgusted beyond belief. But that person seems to have calmed down a bit.”
mel, nobody in particular since I really don’t scour every post here and commit to memory everyone’s latest butt ache!
It was a generic characterization based on something Murphydog posted.
Jeter
Johnson
Tex
Alex
Granderson
Posada
Cano
Swisher
Gardner/Winn
I think Winn primarily be a defensive replacement, and not for Gardner.
lol, yeah I don’t think Melky was worth a Human Virus
I know everyone focuses on Damon and Orlando Hudson as the guys they are shocked haven’t been signed, but for my money I can’t understand why no one has signed Felipe Lopez yet.
He’s in his lower prime years, a very good fielder, and coming off of two very strong campaigns. If I was a team looking for a middle infielder (he can play either 2b or SS) I would be all over this guy.
m,
Maybe he will sit out. Or, to stay in shape, he’ll pick the team least likely to contend, so that he can ensure that he’ll be dealt come deadline time. Pirates anyone?
I was referring to Damon Derangement-Departure Disease, or DDDD.
DDDD is a condition marked by an irrational evaluation of the departed person as perfect, without acknowledgment of known flaws, compounded by an inability to go forward in life with a combination of others replacing the absent the missing person.
It’s a form of separation anxiety manifested in paranoid delusions and OCD, with endless references to the departed and various connived ways to get him back. DDD sufferers will re-make their own reality to include assigning irrational acts and bad motives to individuals left behind, who they believe plotted unfairly and solely to deprive the DDD sufferer of the departed or missing individual, either in a conspiracy or acting alone (like the Trilateral Commission’s Sports Control VP, Scott Boras).
There is no known cure, except maybe a championship without the departed individual.
“ill agree about the wash offensively to a point, however, johnson will likely have a .400 OBP in front of two of the best hitters in baseball and this ability to hit for average will help jeter, and gardner later in the game. More rbis for alex and tex.”
Johnson’s Posada-slow. He won’t score from 1st on a double and won’t often score from 2nd on a single. You measure Johnson’s OBP against Damon’s and it translates to Johnson getting on base 20-25 more times than Damon over the course of a year. That’s great, but I don’t think it’ll result in an increase in runs from the 2 hole. IMO, Damon’s speed bridges the OBP gap, which is to say, I think Damon could have scored as many or more runs getting on base 220 times as Johnson can getting on base 240.
tex’s friend
January 29th, 2010 at 2:01 pm
I would rather have Melky but I guess he was worth giving up for HV.
___
? is HV supposed to be Javy Vazquez?
==================================================
Yes, Sorry.
H and J are next to eachother on my keyboard.
My point is that Melky and his 3mil should be added to the equation…
Reading what someone posted here about Damon talking about mid-season trade and the Yankees, it sounds like Arod in 2007 trying to do damage control. Here are two major differences, however: Arod is actually intelligent and so knew how to finesse the conversation; and Arod was/is one of the best players in the game of baseball.
“I thought it was pretty funny that Damon was talking about Derek’s contract and that he hopes the Yankees treat Derek the right way.”
I thought about this a little recently.
And this depends on what Derek and his agent decide on but what if he says “Mo got his demands, Jorge got his demands and I’m Derek Jeter and I want 4 yrs @ 20 mil per”
It’s not even really that outrageous.
But Derek is going to be 37 by the All-Star break in 2011.
Is he worth that on the open market? I don’t believe so.
Do the Yanks pay him what he’s worth on the market or do they pay him based on the fact that he’s Derek Jeter?
I need a lunch break and an asprin. That Damon interview did me in.
I feel sympathy for the guy, not because he didn’t get the contract he wanted, but because he doesn’t seem to understand that this type of expose – after leaving one team, and before signing with another – is a professional no no.
“Damon’s speed bridges the OBP gap, which is to say, I think Damon could have scored as many or more runs getting on base 220 times as Johnson can getting on base 240.”
I think speed can compensate for SLG (e.g., a single can become a double with a SB), but not OBP.
Johnny – you’re a cool dude and all but you mean zero to the yanks compared to Jeter. ( sorry Erica lol) The comparisions are just silly.
“Do the Yanks pay him what he’s worth on the market or do they pay him based on the fact that he’s Derek Jeter?”
It’s got to be the latter, doesn’t it? Unless they defer money after his retirement or give generously and in perpetuity to the Turn Two Foundation.
Derek will have no trouble getting $80m for four years. I think he may want $100m.
Rich, my point is that Damon would score when he getting on base at a higher percentage than Johnson will when he does. That’s where I’m saying speed bridges the OBP gap.
murphydog
January 29th, 2010 at 2:08 pm
I was referring to Damon Derangement-Departure Disease, or DDDD.
———————————————————–
You should know better than to make fun of real life ailments. It’s not funny. There are reports of people suffering years with this disease, and the DDDD Foundation, of which I’m a contributor, would not appreciate those comments.
FYI – This disease affects people exposed to Kansas City grass and boston green paint chips, followed by years in pinstripes. It’s often untreatable and leads to withdrawal. Clearly this is starting to happen.
As an attorney, you should know better.
Rich in NJ
The Yankees know what Matsui went through day in and day out just to dh. They probably didn’t think he could do that another season. Funny thing is the Angels seem to think he might be able to play the field for them a few times a week. Good luck to them. I guess they missed him running 90 feet a few times a game. could you imagine him running in to catch a fly ball 5 times a game, in addition to running the bases. Good luck to them on that.
In light of my last post on Lopez and the continuing Damon saga it is time for: Where will they Land
Damon – Washington Nationals
(they were about to sign Winn until he signed with the Yankees)
Jarrod Washburn – NYM
(if they get off their rear ends and do something)
Jermaine Dye – Oak
Felipe Lopez – St. Louis
(he had success there in 2008)
Orlando Hudson – Tampa Bay
(with Zobrist moving back to RF)
Orlando Cabrera – Cincy
(I don’t know why, but that seems to be the big rumor)
Barajas – NYM
(Can’t see them going into the year with just Omir Santos)
Blalock – Cleveland
Bedard – Toronto
CM Wang – St. Louis
Blake…The Yanks wanted him back also, but not enough to compromise……I really think the Yanks wanted him back for one year only as a major contributor……I was fine with a 1 year deal, but nothing after that..
“Rich, my point is that Damon would score when he getting on base at a higher percentage than Johnson will when he does. That’s where I’m saying speed bridges the OBP gap.”
I know, but I see that as a function of Damon being able to move from 1B to 2B (or 3B) which puts him in scoring position, which turns singles into doubles (or triples), thereby constructively raising a player’s SLG.
But maybe we’re just looking at the elephant from different angles.
Did anyone see the Magic and Phil Jackson interview? Is it just me or did you guys also get closterphobic watching it? Phil had his legs all up on Magic. Where were they filming it in a basement? They should have just done away with one of the chairs and had Magic be Santa for a day.
Johnson’s Posada-slow. He won’t score from 1st on a double and won’t often score from 2nd on a single. You measure Johnson’s OBP against Damon’s and it translates to Johnson getting on base 20-25 more times than Damon over the course of a year. That’s great, but I don’t think it’ll result in an increase in runs from the 2 hole. IMO, Damon’s speed bridges the OBP gap, which is to say, I think Damon could have scored as many or more runs getting on base 220 times as Johnson can getting on base 240.
Your point of Damon vs. Johnson is correct. Damon scored 107 runs last year and it’s hard to imagin Johnson scoring 100+ runs.
But you need to think about the lineup as a whole not just Johnson vs. Damon. Granderson & Johnson vs. Damon & Sui will be an interesting compare for 2010…
Chip
January 29th, 2010 at 2:17 pm
In light of my last post on Lopez and the continuing Damon saga it is time for: Where will they Land
Damon – Washington Nationals
(they were about to sign Winn until he signed with the Yankees)
Jarrod Washburn – NYM
(if they get off their rear ends and do something)
Jermaine Dye – Oak
Felipe Lopez – St. Louis
(he had success there in 2008)
Orlando Hudson – Tampa Bay
(with Zobrist moving back to RF)
Orlando Cabrera – Cincy
(I don’t know why, but that seems to be the big rumor)
Barajas – NYM
(Can’t see them going into the year with just Omir Santos)
Blalock – Cleveland
Bedard – Toronto
CM Wang – St. Louis
———————————————————–
Chip,
Frankly, I’d only be interested if either or both of Bedard and Wang were signed by the Yankees to minor-league contracts.
Pat M
My take from listening to the Damon interview with Mike F. is that he hasn’t accepted the fact that his skill set isn’t worth the dollars he is looking for.
Like many pro athletes who are sometimes the last ones to admit they are near the end.
Frankly, I’d only be interested if either or both of Bedard and Wang were signed by the Yankees to minor-league contracts.”
HAH
So of the 63 (healthy) innings will throw in 2010 you want how many thrown in Scranton?
“But you need to think about the lineup as a whole not just Johnson vs. Damon. Granderson & Johnson vs. Damon & Sui will be an interesting compare for 2010…”
Fair point Patrick. Same argument I’m making could apply to the speedier Granderson vs. the plodding Matsui as well.
Frankly, I’d only be interested if either or both of Bedard and Wang were signed by the Yankees to minor-league contracts.”
HAH
So of the 63 (healthy)innings *Bedard* will throw in 2010 you want how many thrown in Scranton?
I’d like to see Bedard as a lefty out of the bullpen.
Wang could be capable of filling in for an injured starter later in the season. Neither scenario seems likely however.
DaSaint007:
“You should know better than to make fun of real life ailments. It’s not funny. There are reports of people suffering years with this disease, and the DDDD Foundation, of which I’m a contributor, would not appreciate those comments.
FYI – This disease affects people exposed to Kansas City grass and boston green paint chips, followed by years in pinstripes. It’s often untreatable and leads to withdrawal. Clearly this is starting to happen.
As an attorney, you should know better.”
I apologize to my family, my wife, my friends nad everyone in The Game that I have let down. I am checking myself into a Sarcasm Addition program today and ask you all to respect my privacy at this difficult time.
DaSaint
after everything I’ve heard about Bedard off the field (that he’s a pain in the neck in the clubhouse etc) I can’t see the Yankees bringing him in.
“Reading what someone posted here about Damon talking about mid-season trade and the Yankees, it sounds like Arod in 2007 trying to do damage control. Here are two major differences, however: Arod is actually intelligent and so knew how to finesse the conversation”
That’s not the difference at all. Arod is no brainiac. The big difference is Damon went on the air alone, not especially well prepared, and without any represetation while Arod spent a week with a group of high paid spinmasters putting his story together.
MichaelPTRS
January 29th, 2010 at 2:28 pm
Frankly, I’d only be interested if either or both of Bedard and Wang were signed by the Yankees to minor-league contracts.”
HAH
So of the 63 (healthy)innings *Bedard* will throw in 2010 you want how many thrown in Scranton?
———————————————————–
MichaelPTRS,
To answer your question, I’d have Bedard as a reliever. He can rehab in Scranton, and could be a better left-handed option than Logan or Royce Ring.
I don’t think Wang would be ready until June, don’t care what he says. His problem is that he only wants a ML contract. I’d give him a minor-league one with an option for 2011, in case he regains his form, he’d have trade value. There aren’t many 2 time 19-game winners around, are there?
murph, that’s ok. You’ll be a better man. I’ve been there.
Oh, and get spell check. This GB thing is contagious!
Frank
January 29th, 2010 at 2:28 pm
“But you need to think about the lineup as a whole not just Johnson vs. Damon. Granderson & Johnson vs. Damon & Sui will be an interesting compare for 2010…”
Fair point Patrick. Same argument I’m making could apply to the speedier Granderson vs. the plodding Matsui as well.
===========================================================
Hey Frank,
If I’m writing the lineup Granderson is my #2 hitter and Johnson the #5. Now you can really compare the new to the old.
Granderson will be a great #2 hitter for the Yankees with all his speed and will see better pitches in front of Tex and A-Rod. I don’t think he can bat 5th or 6th and will be wasted down at 7 or 8.
Johnson and his eye will be great behind A-Rod and I also believe he will hit 20+HRs in YS.
“DDDD is a condition marked by an irrational evaluation of the departed person as perfect, without acknowledgment of known flaws, compounded by an inability to go forward in life with a combination of others replacing the absent the missing person.
It’s a form of separation anxiety manifested in paranoid delusions and OCD, with endless references to the departed and various connived ways to get him back. DDD sufferers will re-make their own reality to include assigning irrational acts and bad motives to individuals left behind, who they believe plotted unfairly and solely to deprive the DDD sufferer of the departed or missing individual, either in a conspiracy or acting alone (like the Trilateral Commission’s Sports Control VP, Scott Boras).
There is no known cure, except maybe a championship without the departed individual.”
LMAO!!!
murphydog
I apologize to my family, my wife, my friends nad everyone in The Game that I have let down. I am checking myself into a Sarcasm Addition program today and ask you all to respect my privacy at this difficult time.
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Are you also going to take the GB7 typo class at the same time?
after everything I’ve heard about Bedard off the field (that he’s a pain in the neck in the clubhouse etc) I can’t see the Yankees bringing him in.
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Co-signed
Ok, so here’s something funny.
Courtesy MLBTR: The Nationals are discussing an extension with Adam Dunn, tweets MLB.com’s Bill Ladson. Dunn, 30, is under contract for $12MM in 2010, but he’s set to become a free agent after the season.
What am I missing here? Shouldn’t they instead be restructuring his contract to spread his $12MM over 2 or 3 years?
“What Damon meant when refering to Jeter was he hoped he wouldn’t have to take a 45% pay cut. This sounds like union talk more than comparing himself to Jeter. He also mentioned Dye as well.”
He actually did make reference to the next CBA while on with Francessa. I think he somehow believes that accepting what, in his mind, would be a precedent setting low offer for a player of his magnitude will somehow have some bearing on the next CBA. As though the new CBA will include a clause that dictates mid 30-somethings with a recent history of nagging injuries and a deteriorating defensive game must not be asked to take significant pay cuts.
after everything I’ve heard about Bedard off the field (that he’s a pain in the neck in the clubhouse etc) I can’t see the Yankees bringing him in.
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Co-signed
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Notarized
“That’s not the difference at all. Arod is no brainiac. The big difference is Damon went on the air alone, not especially well prepared, and without any represetation while Arod spent a week with a group of high paid spinmasters putting his story together.”
Thanks for proving my point. Alex had the intelligence to get his act together and then present it. By the way, I think Alex is a highly intelligent individual, in terms of intellect. He’s no dummy.
Frank, the new CBA will. Doesn’t it have something like that now regarding arbitration, whereas you can only get a 20% paycut from your last salary. Maybe JD thinks this is arbitration.
We’ll have to agree to disagree Trish on Arod’s brainpower, but certainly having people craft a story for him was a far smarter move than Damon going on the air with Francessa and blithering nonsensically.
There’s been a tremendous amount of parsing the whole offer to Damon vs. simultaneous offer to Johnson.
But to say that the yanks offer was something less than a real offer even if the Damon offer was tied to Johnson’s is really missing one of the key strategies Boras uses (as well as context).
Boras has made his players a tremendous amount of money by often generating outlier bids or getting teams to bid against themselves.
A key strategy he uses to do this is to drag out negotiations. By doing this Boras drives up the opportunity cost of not signing his player for the team he engages.
By dragging things out, Boras allows the “supply” of talent to shrink as alternatives to his players come off the board. That makes some teams relatively desperate and throw money at his players.
This is what Boras did with the Red Sox last year with Tex. And the opportunity cost was huge because the Sox absorbed tremendous risk and by waiting lost out on the chance to bid on top rung talent.
Signing Damon earlier this off season wasn’t simply 2yr/14M or whatever it was the yankees at one time were willing to spend. The true cost was 2yrs/14M + Opportunity Cost of having Boras drag out the negotiations.
Nick Johnson was ready to sign a two year deal for 5-6/yr with the Giants.
The yankees needed to decide how much opportunity cost they were willing to “spend” by waiting on Damon for Boras to play his usual game. It’s unlikely that Damon was going to be signed before Holliday. Boras usually wants his big money players signed first.
And ultimately, the yankees were not interested in absorbing the risk and opportunity cost of waiting for Damon as alternatives dried up.
They likley thought that Damon is no longer the kind of talent they were willing to absorb that opportunity cost on.
Now that we know Damon will not be back to play LF.
How are these guys going to line up in the OF?
Lots of talk about Gardy being the CF and Grandy LF.
Personally I think Grandy should be the CF because he is going to start most every game. He is a good CF and should not be the one to bounce around.
Gardy should be the primary LF and fill in at CF if Grandy gets hurt or needs a day.
Swish only plays RF and Winn is the #4 OF playing both LF and RF.
Not sure if this has been posted yet, but Damon talks about not returning to the Yankees, including the Yankees possibly trading for Damon at the trade deadline?
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....?eref=sihp
MaineYankee
January 29th, 2010 at 2:40 pm
murphydog
I apologize to my family, my wife, my friends nad everyone in The Game that I have let down. I am checking myself into a Sarcasm Addition program today and ask you all to respect my privacy at this difficult time.
————————————————-
Are you also going to take the GB7 typo class at the same time?
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Perfect. The Three Wise(azs) Guys. As soon as I can think up something nasty to say to you, Murph and Simon (DaSaint), I’ll get back with you.
Are you also going to take the GB7 typo class at the same time?
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Doesnt GB teach that class?
I really like Old Timers’ Day and I hope they continue it and take some of the suggestions. As for the attendance, my theory is that the core die-hard fans used to be able to pick and choose days, and they’d always want Old Timers’ Day. They would get there early, and give a warm welcome to the old timers. Now, with nearly every game sold out, I bet lots of people buy tickets for whatever game they can get, without even noticing that it’s OT day. It is sad, though, to see a 2/3-empty stadium when they’re announcing Yogi or Whitey or Bernie.
CB,
That is a fascinating perspective on Boras’ tactics.
Where he erred (imo) is that this game of musical chairs had way too many players and not enough chairs.
It was just a weird market in that Bay had only 1 serious suitor. Holliday only had one serious suitor. Damon had only one semi-serious suitor. Like everyone was pre-destined already.
“Like everyone was pre-destined already”
Almost sounds like the “c” word.
SoS -
I saw the Magic/Jackson interview and was thinking the same thing. Did they set up the interview in a closet or something??
I’m pretty sure Old Timers Day is sold as a premium game.
Maybe a lot of people flake out or decide they don’t have the time to show up 2 hours early.
As far as higher attendance back in the late 60′s, 70′s & early 80′s… the Old Timers Game was more likely the better show on that given afternoon.
Also I think that when Cameron saw the contract he recieived from Boston, Boras and Damon must have thought they’d recieve more in that Damon is the better player….And when you add to the equation that Matsui recieved a 6.5 million dollar deal from The Angels to be a DH, it must have driven the Damon group to justify their 2/ 23 beliefs…..When in fact that 6.5 million is all Cashman really thought of Damon….What did Johnson sign for 5 mil ???
rodg12,
A closet would have been better. More like a fitting room. Two 6 foot 9 or 10 guys cramped all up on each other. Im surprised they didnt take turns breathing. Again, maybe next time they can have Magic dress in red and white and ask Phil if hes been good or bad.
I was so distracted by it all, i didnt here who he said was better between Michael and Kobe.
GB7
I thought I could slip that in while you took your nap.
“By dragging things out, Boras allows the “supply” of talent to shrink as alternatives to his players come off the board. That makes some teams relatively desperate and throw money at his players.”
That pendulum swings both ways, no?? Doesn’t he also run the risk of being hoisted by his own petard? Maybe not with someone like Teixeira or Holliday, but the clients a tier or two…..or three beneath those guys.
S.o.S,
Not sure he ever said. If he did, I missed it just like you did. I do remember that he said they were very much alike as far as personality though.
“This sounds like union talk more than comparing himself to Jeter. ”
I think there was some union mindset at work.
Johnny has spoken about not wanting to set precedent for other 36 year old players, he mentioned the CBA in his interview with Mike and was talking about AAV and the luxury tax issues of his situation as well as about prospects who will be in the game 15 years from now long after he is done playing.
Talk about consensus: Chip, S.o.S. and Frank.
Anyone else see Bedard as not a good idea?
How about Wang? (Frankly, I think Cashman & Co. are glad that Wang is unable to pitch at this time. I’ve long felt that they’ve never been sold on him since he’s not a swing-and-miss type pitcher, and his success was going to cost them greatly. Imagine what he would have demanded salary-wise if he had continued with his success?
“That pendulum swings both ways, no?? Doesn’t he also run the risk of being hoisted by his own petard? Maybe not with someone like Teixeira or Holliday, but the clients a tier or two…..or three beneath those guys.”
Frank,
That’s exactly what’s happening with some of his sub-superstar players now that the market has softened.
Boras did great for Tex last year and awful for Varitek. How could he not see that accepting arb was Varitek’s best strategy? Perhaps Varitek refused advice but there’s been a number of odd things his clients have done these past two off seasons.
In prior markets teams were willing to pay the opportunity costs associated with dealing with Boras. They seem less willing now.
A great example is the Red Sox. They got burned last year on Tex. This year on Holliday they made Holliday one offer which Boras rejected. Instead of continuing to negotiate the Sox just reallocated that money to Lackey.
In many ways that’s a real failure in process for an agent. Part of an agent’s job is to get buyers involved and engaged in a negotiation. Boras couldn’t get the Sox to do that for Holliday.
Holliday did well getting $120M – but not as well as he might have done if Boras had been able to rope the Sox into a protracted negotiation. That really would have forced the Cardinals hand.
With Damon Boras seems once again to have tried the same tactic with the yanks and it just failed. They simply reallocated money to Johnson and decided the money+opportunity costs wasn’t worth it.
Back to Carl Crawford …..
The Rays will be careful not to upset the marginal fanbase they have by saying they’re “exploring” signing the face of their franchise long term but in actuality, Desmond Jennings is poised to be their next leftfielder for years to come.
It will be a major surprise if Crawford is not the leading free agent position player in the next class.
He will be in his prime years and will not be interested in the low offer the Rays will use.
New thread: Looking for a place to land
DaSaint,
Im interested in seeing if Wang can get back the velocity he lost. That fastball at 92 vs. 95/96 was day and night. If he can regain that hard sinker(velocity is the key IMO), someones going to get a good bargain.
Too much Damon drama here for a player that spent 4 years at good money and had 3 substantial years.
It is what it is. Damon is cleary in his declining years with an agent that thought otherwise.
Both Boras and Damon bit their noses to spite their faces and now face little wiggle room than to accept even less than the Yankees offered.
Brian Cashman can’t be faulted. He did his normal negotiating and when his experience showed he had reached an impass, he didn’t fold. He has a product to put on the field for his manager and Yankee fans and did what he does best.
This Damon bashing is very sad coming from Yankee fans who say they cheer for the uniform. Granted he is not in the uniform at present but he was for 4 years and did quite well.
Why call him unintelligent? Why take away respect for a Yankee who played the game the best he could.
I am very disappointed in those who have dumped on Damon.
Good luck, Johnny, where ever you end up.
A lot of people should be ashamed of yourselves.
What is wrong about saying he did a good job and you wish him well. Jeez.
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