A second half to remember
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- February
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As I was reading the guest post from the 6-pound Boys this morning, I found myself pausing over the part where they used CC Sabathia’s impact on the Brewers in 2008 as the prime example of a trade deadline smash. So, since I’m not bogged down today discussing The Show That Everyone Watched Last Night, I decided to go back and relive CC’s second-half a little, and see if it really was as good as we all seemed to think it was.
Short answer: Uh, yeah.
After being traded to the Brewers on July 8, Sabathia started 17 times, going 11-2 with seven complete games. Seven! That was most in the National League (despite having only played there for less than three months) and only two less than MLB-leader Roy Halladay had during a full season.
Sabathia also threw 130 2/3 innings during his 17 starts in that stretch – or just about the same number that Wandy Rodriguez threw for the Astros in 25 starts over the entire schedule. Sabathia also struck out 132 hitters with the Brewers – a total that would have tied him (with Jorge De La Rosa and Matt Garza) for 56th in season totals for the entire league.
Sabathia faced 516 batters and allowed an opposing OBP of .265. He threw 1,881 pitches, 67 percent of which were strikes. He once threw three complete games in a row, four in six starts and six out of 10 outings. He finished the season by pitching his final three games on three-days rest (winning two and going the distance in the finale). That’s super-human stuff.
I once talked with Sabathia about what the run was like and, as is his way, he low-keyed the whole thing. Said he was just doing his best, trying to help the team, etc. Then he laughed and we started talking about basketball. That’s just Sabathia’s way.
He can’t deny, though, that those 17 starts with the Brewers were something special. When fans (and GMs) talk about making an impact trade for their team at the deadline, the hope – the dream – is to get something like that.
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Chad Jennings
A similar trade that had almost the exact same ending is Tex with the Angels!
We were bad in 2008 because Kyle Farnsworth of all people was traded? That team was lousy – they played like they were in a torpor the whole year, like they were stuck in glue. Pudge was awful, but who could have seen that coming? Farnsworth was OK at best and that’s looking at it positively. I’m sure there were a multitude of reasons why the 2008 was basically awful outside of an 8 game stretch after the All-Star break; perhaps they were stagnant and needed new blood. Who knows? These guys are only human. I just never believed that the house of cards collapsed because of Farnsworth. Not only is he not that good, but he was hardly a huge component of the clubhouse.
m
February 3rd, 2010 at 12:08 pm
Erica,
I’d rather you develop a Pretend Smoking Habit than risk your job. Seriously.
************
Occasional checking in is permissable, but its the constant posting that would get me into trouble. Like GTLU.
I would never smoke- not even pretend so smoking breaks are out.
I try coffee breaks, but I am already drinking way too much of that stuff
If I get out of my seat to say hi to people, I am told I am fooling around.
Bathroom breaks aren’t very exciting
And if I eat out of boredom, my pants get tight.
So LoHud it is
Audio from Joba at last nights Munson dinner. He threw with CC yesterday and has his sights set on being the 5th starter.
http://www.wfan.com/Pleading-t.....ntRating=1
From the other thread….
Ray,
EVERY team wants to hit Manning and knock him out of the game. Problem is, their OL is so good, it doesn’t happen.
You aren’t going to find stars as backups.
Nor do many veteran players want to sit all year behind guys like Arod and Jeter, who play just about every day.
There are reasons why you want to build your bench in season.
First, veteran players need AB’s to stay sharp. They will get them playing for non-contenders. When they are traded to contenders (often for very little in return), they are sharp enough skill-wise to be able to contribute.
Second, veteran players get tired in the second half of the year, necessitating reinforcements.
Third, you only pay half the acquired players salary since his previous team has paid for him in the first half of the season.
You don’t need a bench in April. You need it from Late July on.
Erica,
Ah. Very well.
I’ll log off then. Don’t want to distract you too much.
Happy Wednesday everyone.
(only 2 more weeks!)
(late entry from previous post/thread)
A bit late but -
Last nite’s banter between the “Pro and Anti” statistics posters was fantastic (despite a bit of repetition) !!!
This is what makes this blog good baseball reading !!!
For those that weren’t involved or haven’t had the time to read it all (over a few threads); here are 3 posts/responses that I thought were terrific:
stuckey February 2nd, 2010 at 11:28 pm
“there’s nothing nostalgic or romantic about what i’m saying. let’s go yankees wonders why some people don’t like sabermetrics. the simple reason is that act like know it alls when in reality they don’t know much about the total baseball experience.”
But they aren’t attempting to define the total baseball experience. They endeavor to do what they endeavor to do, which is is provide deeper analysis that’s been historically available into a particular iteration of the game, which is how the game is played at the Major League level.
Randy, very simply, if you agree there is any value to calculating how many hits a batter got per 10 AB’s, or how many runs a pitcher gave up per 9 innings, or how many HR’s a batter hit in a season, then you’re argument is by default invalid.
ALL these people you so loathe is expanding upon and TRYING to devise more insightful methods of ways to qualify performance in the sport.
If you can argue you find NO value in batting avg, ERA, etc… then you got an pure argument. Not one I’d agree with, but pure nonetheless.
You can only reject statistical analysis genuinely if you reject ALL statistical analysis.
“you played well into your thirties. you don’t think that gave you any insight into baseball? that makes no sense to me at all. you obviously liked the game and still do. why do you think that someone like bill james knows something you don’t?”
Does Bill James know something I don’t about the relative performance of specific players who have or do play the game of professional ML baseball?
I should hope he does.
I can find no appealing argument that suggests to me that calculating how often (for instance) a player gets a hit when he puts the ball in play doesn’t have some insightful value, in a PROFESSIONAL iteration of the game that involves assembling the most effective team of players on a fixed budget.
“personally i like what it feels like to throw and hit a baseball. there is nothing that a sabermetrican can figure out that’s going to impact on that or to the feel that anyone who plays the game at any level gets from it.
sabermetricians are just not that important to the game.”
But that’s not really what’s at issue. I honestly don’t think there is a single sabermetrician that attempts to generate any insight as to why YOU like to throw it hit a baseball.
What they can offer insight to is the relative and comparative performance of say Carl Crawford and Johnny Damon in terms of how they hit and throw a baseball and how they impact a game of ML baseball, which is not even close to being the same thing as you’re suggesting.
“i’m just saying if it wasn”t fun to play catch there’d be no game to study game theory.”
I can’t imagine there is a man, woman or child alive that would argue that point with you.
“just don’t try to hijack the game and act like it’s theirs.”
And I believe this is what your objection boils down to – a feeling of resentment that someone is trying to tell you they know something more than you do about something you love.
This is not unique to baseball “purists” and baseball sabermetricians. This is an age-old conflict that between people who prefer simple concepts and people who attempt deeper understanding of dynamics.
And for the record. I don’t place automatic value in all the conclusions of sabermetricians. They can be wrong too.
What I respect is what they ATTEMPT to do.
To be brutally forthright I find it somewhat sad and troublesome that some people resent the idea that someone knows something more than they do.
Me? I want to know more and learn. Be corrected when I;m wrong. Till the day I die.
Rich in NJ February 3rd, 2010 at 12:10 am
“when looking into sabermetric data it’s often flawed like that”
Who ever said that sabermetric data isn’t flawed?
But so is observation.
That’s why both used in tandem is so valuable
SJ44 February 3rd, 2010 at 9:32 am
I think when either side just stands on their side of the fence, with no entry into “enemy territory” each side misses something.
For example, when I hear people say, “the numbers don’t mean anything”, that’s not true.
Conversely, when I hear people say, “There is no such thing as chemistry, its just about the numbers”, that’s definitely not true.
Its all about taking all the information available to you and using it correctly.
In football for example, nobody does it better than the Colts. When you look at the number of undrafted and low drafted players on their roster, they do a great job of combining all of their resources to fill their roster.
Baseball is still new to the party in this regard, IMO.
For the non-stat people….I’ve seen scouts completely ignore 5-10 pitchers because they aren’t 6-2 and above and don’t throw 92-94. Kids that would be good prospects get passed over for big kids who flame out. Happens all the time.
On the other side of the fence, I’ve seen teams ignore obvious strengths or weaknesses of a player that could have been determined through sabermetrics.
In the end, everything has value when you are evaluating players and putting together teams. The key though is to have a philsophy for team building and stick to it and not change with the wind.
If you do, like the Colts do (and the Yankees to a very large extent), you are competitive for titles every year. Regardless of the turnover on your roster.
**** sabermetric data isn’t perfect…and ‘gut feeling’ ain’t too perfect either !!!
**** too many stats do not ruin the love of the game
**** not enuf stats do not ruin the love for the game
**** Thank you for keeping this baseball blog on baseball.
The Brewers abused CC’s arm that year.
Upstate, you gotta break up those posts, otherwise you get big MEGO issues and your points get lost…
“EVERY team wants to hit Manning and knock him out of the game. Problem is, their OL is so good, it doesn’t happen.”
I agree SJ but in this case the Saints have gone above and beyond. I don’t like the way they went after Favre with late hits. If they are legal hits then thats fine but the late ones escpecially the one to the knees that wasn’t penalized are in my opinion weak.
A good OL can’t protect against late hits and if Greg Williams has the Saints do that then that will stink. If he is saying this to try and get in Peytons head then thats cool but if they carry it out like they did against Favre I hope the refs penalize them to the point that it costs them the game.
I’m rooting for the Colts for that reason alone.
Wave Your Hat
February 3rd, 2010 at 12:21 pm
Upstate, you gotta break up those posts, otherwise you get big MEGO issues and your points get lost…
================================
Ok & thank you – advice taken !
One of my profs is a huge Brewers fan and they said that what CC did for the Brewers has made them a fan of him for life, even if he’s on the Yankees.
m- I’m good how are you. I’ve been lurking lately.
Yea I agree that if they are gonna hit Peyton then its most likely going to have to be late because their O line is so good and because Manning makes decisions and gets the ball out so quickly. If they hit him late then I also hope it costs them the game.
statistical analysis imo has too stand the test of time
uzr,etc might evolve too make it appreciated more like whip,ba,era,slg,obp,ops
take whip for example
it imo is a better indication of how good a pitcher is because era is subject too a lot of other factors
i admit i have to understand uzr better but it can’t be completely overlooked & imo the more managers,gm’s,scouts trust,rely,appreciate & accept it the more we will as fans
we know era,whip,slg,ba,obp,ops is accepted by all
maybe uzr in it’s final stage will also be.
From the last thread…..
useless.
champ809
February 3rd, 2010 at 12:15 pm
SJ44
Tabata IS A PROSPECT right now. He’s top 30-50 in most ratings systems right now. Accept it.
Bottom line
As far as someone complaining about depth behind ARod or Jeet, get over it those guys will play 150 + games for the few years!, but as far as org depth behind them;
A- Eduardo Nunez is playing SS at AAA this season @ 24 yrs old and would be in the mix should Jeet get hurt for an extended period of time. Could be a rh Cano type bat @ ss with 20-30 steal speed. His glove is better than advertised.
B- Brandon Laird is in AA this season playing 1b and 3b and is a good hitter with ML pedigree. If he can avoid the slow start this season could have a HUGE year…290.-.300+ with power as he hit 23 homers in ‘08 playing with Montero. Had a great AFL season this fall after ripping the second half of this season in Tampa as the rbi guy for a title winning team.
Not as bleak as you may think
Why are people worried about ARod and Jeter? Seems like a waste of energy.
If you want to worry about injuries, worry about Posada.
Jose Tabata is not a Top 30 prospect anywhere.
He was a Top 30 prospect 3 years ago. That’s not progress.
This is a big year for him. He has to begin to show something more than he is shown or he will dip off the radar.
Meanwhile, the Yankees are defending a World Championship, have an under 30 All Star in Granderson in the OF, and are moving forward.
One has a hard time arguing Jose Tabata was given away since he is in the same place he was 3 years ago as a propsect. That’s not progress.
Perhaps he will show something this year. Perhaps not.
Either way, that trade was a no brainer to make for the Yankees and hasn’t hurt them in the slightest.
Nice post Sam
That 2nd half run is what turned me into a CC fan. Especially when he was pitching on short rest, despite advice from his agent not to, to help his team.
SJ, I remember my first trip to Spring Training as it was an time of excitement and one of extreme nerviousness….The best advice I can offer is when Skipper Bobby Cox told me….Be seen and not heard….In other words, just observe and do what your told……Be confident yet humble, and in a few days you’ll blend right in……It’s an amazing time for him, and for you as well…..Enjoy it and in time it’ll all sink in
“stuckey-
UZR is far from “basically worthless”.”
FYI, I think you’re confusing an attribution. I never said anything about UZR.
Thanks Pat M. That’s great advice and I will pass it along to him.
Nice article on Yankees and Strip clubs
http://deadspin.com/5462531/pl.....ue&s=i
There was once a huge pitcher. He pitched in the AL and had won a CY Young. He was about to be a free agent and had a poor (for him) start to the season. He was traded to a NL team hoping to make the playoffs. He was the most dominant player in the game from that point of the season on and pitched his team to the playoffs. He turned that into a large free agent contract and won a WS with his new team. CC? Well, him too. Randy Johnson was 10-1 in 11 games for the Astros with a 1.28 ERA and 12.4 K/9.
This is the comparable trade, not Tex.
Tseng
February 3rd, 2010 at 12:26 pm
One of my profs is a huge Brewers fan and they said that what CC did for the Brewers has made them a fan of him for life, even if he’s on the Yankees.
*********************
That’s what turned me into a CC fan too!
stuckey
February 3rd, 2010 at 12:50 pm
I said UZR is basically worthless. Not the concept, but the actual UZR online these days. They list the Phillies 1B Ryan Howard as being a better fielder than Tex. That is worthless.
One has a hard time arguing Jose Tabata was given away since he is in the same place he was 3 years ago as a propsect. That’s not progress.
****************************************************
that’s just it,He’s not in the same place he was 3 yrs ago he was an 18 yr old kid playing with 20-21yrs old and put up a .305/.390/.410 line with 20 stolen bases…
At present he’s a 21 yr old playing at the AAA level with 24-25yr olds with a career pro line of .300/.365/.415 with 80 career sbs. That IS progress and he admittedly probably underachieved in the sense that he’s been immature. He just tore up the Arizona fall league and if he gets his act together and focus on his game he has the foundation of an impact type hitter.
His power will come as he gains strength and while he may never be a 40hr guy if he can be a .300+/20-25hr/20-25 steal guy with an above average glove then that’s a real good player to have during his 23-33 age playing years
Rick Sutcliffe’s post trade stats with the Cubs in 1984 are also very good:
20 starts, 16-1 with a 2.69 ERA. He also won the CY award.
Doyle Alexander went 9-0 with a 1.53 ERA and helped Detroit into the playoffs in 1987. He was the guy traded for Smoltz.
SJ, Then again, Tony is the Club’s Bonus Baby, so he’ll be in high demand from the press….Many eyes will be on him…..
For anyone interested:
“Beyond the Boxscore presents the top four finishers for its sabermetric writing awards, including Josh Kalk’s last piece before getting hired by the Rays. Brilliant stuff that really should not be missed.” -Rob Neyer
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.c.....ting-award
BtB Sabermetric Writing Award Results: Best Novel
On this, I’ll agree. If Neyer and you agree, I can believe it. It’s a fiction novel.
jennifer,
Good to see you’re still around.
Eli,
Only meant that they were both rentals, their teams didn’t win, and they both ended up on the Yankees. Together! And won a WS ring. Together!
No offense was intended.
Wasn’t really a trade, but in late May of 1985, John Tudor (1-7 with a 3.74 ERA at the time) sold his soul to the devil in exchange for 4 months of ridiculously good pitching. From June 1 on, he was 20-1 with a 1.37 ERA, 13 complete games, and 10 shutouts (plus another game the Cards lost in which he through 10 scoreless innings). Probably the best close to a season of the last 30 years and it was almost all under the heat of a pennant race as they were going toe to toe with Gooden and the Mets.
As a lifelong, diehard Brewers fan, I can corroborate Tseng’s professor anecdote. Beyond being an awesome pitcher who exceeded even his own awesome talents during his brief stint in Milwaukee, CC is just a likeable & down-to-earth guy. I was so happy to see him get a W.S. title last October. I’ve never seen such a stretch of dominance by a pitcher like I witnessed from Sabathia in 2008 after he came to the Brewers… and I doubt I will again.
Champ,
You are making a very optimistic projection of his upside.
Even the Pirates, a team I know a little about re: prospects, are split on him.
He’s never going to be a 20-25 SB guy because he isn’t that fast.
His power is also a big question mark because he hasn’t shown much of it since his wrist surgery.
Tearing up the AFL doesn’t mean much. The best player in that league quit to join the priesthood and he had a better year than Tabata.
You never know with prospects.
I do know this, the Yankees are a win now team.
They can’t look at a kid and if he becomes a player by 2012 say, “we never should have made a 2008 trade”.
That’s not how it works.
Right now, Jose Tabata is not considered an elite prospect by anybody. Perhaps he will play himself to that position. Perhaps not.
Either way, its pretty tough to rip the Yankees for that trade given that Damaso Marte was a big reason they won the WS and none of the other guys in the trade have amounted to much.
GB,
Thanks for taking the time to read the articles on beyond the box score and always contributing thoughtful and well informed opinions to the discussion. You have once again taught all of us around here that forming opinions based on pure ignorance and generalizations is not the way we should have discussions.
Oh and I will be sure to let Neyer know he is an idiot that is being conned. I am sure he will appreciate your brilliant insight that shed the light on what sabermetrics is all about.
“A similar trade that had almost the exact same ending is Tex with the Angels!”
Little different. Brewers got CC in an effort to make the playoffs. The Halos knew they were making the playoffs when got Teixeira. He was brought in to help the Halos succeed in the playoffs.
Let’s go Yankees….I read the piece…Seems to me that people are tryning to create more than what is really needed……More importantly, I noticed not one person responded in the open comments……As a baseball guy, I think it’s of interest, almost hobby like……Tells a very small part of a players story
I can’t believe Damon is still looking for an 2yr 22M deal. He still wants 11M a year. It is great to see Boras scurry to find a sucker!
Scouting report on Tabata from Fangraphs which support some of the assertions made by SJ44:
3. Jose Tabata, OF, Triple-A
DOB: August 1988 Bats: R Throws: R
Signed: 2005 non-drafted international free agent (Venezuela – New York Yankees)
MLB ETA: Mid-2010 40-Man Roster: Yes Options: 3
Allegedly just 21 years old, Tabata reached triple-A around the time he earned the right to drink legally in the United States. After a tumultuous beginning to the season off the field, Tabata hit .303/.370/.404 in 228 double-A at-bats. He then moved up to triple-A where he held his own and hit .276/.333/.410 in 134 at-bats. Unfortunately, he continues to be haunted by a couple holes in his game that could keep him from becoming a breakout talent. His walk rate is on the low side and it was just 6.9% in triple-A. His power has yet to develop, and his ISO rate was .101 in double-A and .134 in triple-A, which was down significantly from the number he flashed in his debut with the Pirates system in ‘08. Tabata’s thickening lower half has also impacted his speed on the bases (11 steals in 19 attempts) and his range in the outfield.
But the ending was the same!!!!
Pat,
You seem to always generalize what I am saying or put words in my mouth. That article is in no way indicative of what sabermetrics is all about. I did not say those articles are a huge part of baseball nor do I think the people that wrote them think they can tell you anything and everything It was just a few interesting articles that have been written over the past year. It is just more useful information to add to the puzzle.
For example, the article on identifying injuries that Kalk wrote. It obviously does not tell you a huge part of a players story. However it is very very useful. There is a reason a month Kalk was hired by Tampa Bay’s FO.
More importantly, it had nothing to do with the discussion last night. I just happened to see it today and know that a lot of people on this board appreciate the work and find it interesting so I posted the link.
lets go yankees
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:33 pm
GB,
Thanks for taking the time to read the articles on beyond the box score and always contributing thoughtful and well informed opinions to the discussion. You have once again taught all of us around here that forming opinions based on pure ignorance and generalizations is not the way we should have discussions.
Oh and I will be sure to let Neyer know he is an idiot that is being conned. I am sure he will appreciate your brilliant insight that shed the light on what sabermetrics is all about.
————————————————————
Trying to foist highly flawed stats on the public and trying to force it down their throats is going to get you nowhere. Some stats may be useful, but, not until they’re corrected to include all things that affect that stat, and, these don’t. There’s too much left undone. Most of these stats have just enough fact to con some people….much like the Mitchell Report. Of course, they leave out things that may not make their case.
“But the ending was the same!!!!”
Insomuch as they both left via free agency, yes it did. As for what they did prior to that, Sabathia helped the Brewers succeed in achieving their goal. The Halos, despite Teixeira playing well, did not meet their’s.
Sabermetrics is all about adding more useful information to the discussion.
If you are looking for one statistic or one article or one study to tell you anything and everything, you are clearly misunderstanding the goal of these people.
If you think for example UZR is the be all end all of sabermetrics (since people always say things like UZR tells me Tex is a bad defender so advanced statstics are bad), you have not done enough research on the topic to have a credible opinion.
The Brewers abused CC in my opinion. He pitched many times in the regular season on short rest. If he were rested come postseason and then used on short rest, the Brewers could have gone deeper into the postseason.
Why is everyone writing in the papers and or different blogs that Joba will be the setup man for Mariano, and Phil will be in the starting rotation?
Frank,
Are you telling me that the Brewers goal was simply to make the post season?
I agree the Brewers abused CC, but I think it was with his blessing.
O/T but when I was following the above link, I ran across this. If this is true, it’s really sad. Losing a charismatic leader can often be the end of some very valuable organizations and projects. Any baseball fan should feel a twang at the thought of this place going under due to internal strife, loss of contributions/income or absence of a good plan and unified board to lead it forward and help it expand.
http://www.google.com/hostedne.....c9PosN0rpQ
Why not put together a Negro Leagues Exhibition and hit the MLB Stadiums this season? Shows before and after games, even on off days. Why not use MLB to raise a little cash – Selig should commit strongly to a commercial co-venture with the Negro Leagues Museum way before he commits another dollar to international issues. Get Nike and the usual suspects to co-sponsor it.
If the Negro Leagues Exhibition came to Yankee Stadium, I would be there in a heart beat and spend some cash. A KC Monarchs Jersey? Heck yeah.
Since you guys are still talking about stats, how about a little lesson for me, please?
UZR seems to be the “grain of salt” stat. (i’ve seen this stance by people who actually write on baseball blogs, not just in the comment sections).
I can understand it being a faulty stat, but why is it? It’s my understanding that someone(s) looks at every defensive play by a player? And determines if they were ________?
So, is it too subjective? Are the parameters wrong? Why is it so un-quotable or unusuable?
If someone says grain of salt, isn’t it still relative? Someone with a +16 in the OF must’ve fielded his position much better than someone with a -2, no?
People, UZR is just another measure of fielding ability.
It is acknowledged to have issues when it comes to measuring first base fielding, and it doesn’t do catching. There are particular positions in particular ballparks which give it problems. It has the same sample size limitations and qualifications as any stat does.
You just have to use your head when using UZR, just like you do BA or SLG or K/BB rate or OPS+.
Saying you won’t use UZR until it is perfect is silly. Sort of like saying you won’t get a TV until they perfect 3-D sets. (Of course, that’s coming soon, they say.)
(And by the way, per UZR Tex is about an average fielder – and average is good.)
“Are you telling me that the Brewers goal was simply to make the post season?”
Put this way, the pretty well satisfied the text book definition of “just happy to be there”. They hadn’t been to the postseason in 25+ years. They had virtually no shot once they did get there as Sabathia had to pitch them into the playoffs on the last day, Sheets was injured and Gallardo was coming off an injury. It was a big deal just making for the Brewers. Their season was a success.
*theY pretty well satisfied…..
murphydog
February 3rd, 2010 at 2:06 pm
O/T but when I was following the above link, I ran across this. If this is true, it’s really sad. Losing a charismatic leader can often be the end of some very valuable organizations and projects. Any baseball fan should feel a twang at the thought of this place going under due to internal strife, loss of contributions/income or absence of a good plan and unified board to lead it forward and help it expand.
http://www.google.com/hostedne…..c9PosN0rpQ
Why not put together a Negro Leagues Exhibition and hit the MLB Stadiums this season? Shows before and after games, even on off days. Why not use MLB to raise a little cash – Selig should commit strongly to a commercial co-venture with the Negro Leagues Museum way before he commits another dollar to international issues. Get Nike and the usual suspects to co-sponsor it.
If the Negro Leagues Exhibition came to Yankee Stadium, I would be there in a heart beat and spend some cash. A KC Monarchs Jersey? Heck yeah.
————————————————————
Not to push military ideas on anyone, but, the military has a traveling exhibit that’s a smaller version of the Vietnam wall and statue. It included everything, just on a smaller scale. It’s a marvelous travelling exhibit and people from all around, and not just miltary viewed it. You’re correct in that history like that needs to be saved.
murphydog -
On the Negro Leagues Museum…definitely sad. I know the board ticked off Joe Posnanski a year or so ago with the way it changed direction in leadership and he dropped all allegiances with it (link: http://tinyurl.com/5wo33s). It seems that decision on top of losing Buck has really hurt them.
Frank,
Of course they’re satisfied. But was making the playoffs the goal? Or was trying to win the WS the goal? And how do you win the WS? By making the playoffs.
New Post: Saturday Night Lights
Rodg, this is where the surviving Negro Leaguers need to step in and help save it. Mays, Aaron, Banks, Newcome, Maury Wills and even Charlie Pride (who played in the Negro Leagues) are the biggest names that are needed to save it. There’s also players like Jeter, Rodriguez, Bill White and every other player with a sense of history, black, white, Hispanic, makes no difference. It’s their history as much as anybody elses.
I agree GB. That’s something that needs to be done. An event with those surviving Negro League players could easily raise enough money to keep things going.
lets go yankees
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:53 pm
Wave Your Hat
February 3rd, 2010 at 2:08 pm
UZR is a great concept. But until it is anything more than a concept, it is very flawed.
“A player’s one-year UZR is not a good measure of his true talent level as a fielder, nor is it a good predictor of future performance. UZR also frequently conflicts — or at least it doesn’t perfectly align — with the other major defensive stat in use, John Dewan’s Plus/Minus, which is published in The Fielding Bible and on Bill James Online.”
A lot of folks on here try to use it to say Gardner is a great fielder. That is hosed. UZR must meet certain criteria or its bogus.
The reason I said Tex at 1B as an example is because there is no way in any accurate or even close to accurate fielding guide is Ryan Howard better than Tex. Several other items such as field size & dimension play into the defensive matrix as well. UZR doesn’t judge Pitchers or Catchers. It isn’t accurate for 3B or 1B. It is questionable for corner OF. Supposedly its strength is CF, SS & 2B. It doesn’t compensate for gamers that play thru injuries or perhaps have recovered from an injury. It doesn’t compensate for infield type or roughness. I am not impressed, but I do think it is a very big step in the right direction.
Rodg, this needs to be a baseball thing and not just a black baseball thing. It should be a major concern for all of them…Joe Morgan, Bob Feller, Bob Costas….big names bring big money with them. It will take someone that has baseball’s ear…Frank Robinson. Let’s see just how much Bud Selig really cares.
Very true, GB. MLB as a whole should definitely embrace the museum and help it out.
In “Traded” a book analyzing the most lopsided trades in baseball history by Doug Decatur, he had the CC trade the biggest deadline trade of 2008, and perhaps many others. I don’t rememebr exactly and don’t have the book with me at work
His blog is at http://www.mlbexpertanalysis.com/blog/