A case for the ages
Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Feb 04, 2010 
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Teams signing young pitchers to long-term deals during their arbitration years has become increasingly common (Verlander, King Felix) but there’s one notable exception – Tim Lincecum, the two-time reining NL Cy Young winner, is currently embroiled in one of the most intriguing arbitration cases in baseball history.
Quick summary: Lincecum filed for arbitration and has asked for a $13 million salary next season; the Giants have submitted a proposed salary of $8 million. If the sides can’t agree, there will be a hearing before a three-person panel during spring training in which both sides argue why their proposal should be chosen.
The hearing process can be brutal. Recently, the Yankees famously went to arbitration with Chien-Ming Wang (over about $600,000) and Wang was said to never quite past it emotionally. Remember, arbitration is adversarial – the team is basically obligated to tear down and minimize the player’s positives since it is trying to show that the player’s proposal is unjustified. That can get ugly.
Now, win or lose, Lincecum will end up with a record award for a pitcher (and $13 million would be a record overall) but it’ll be interesting to see if the Giants really take this to a hearing. MLB.com’s Doug Miller did a great breakdown of some of the historical precedents here, and looking at some past awards it sure seems to me like Lincecum’s got about as strong a case as anyone.
If I were the Giants, I’d be doing whatever I could to make a deal before it gets to the hearing. Plus, what would they say negatively about Lincecum if it got there? That they don’t like his hair?
“Teams signing young pitchers to long-term deals during their arbitration years has become increasingly common…”
That’s why it is becoming increasingly important for the Yankees to grow their own.
maybe his pot use?
That he is a “freak”.
Sam,
The Giants can do all they want to try and reach an agreement, but don’t you think that Lincecum’s people feel as you do? If the case is as good as you say, and there really is nothing negative to say about him, the $13 million is pretty much his, isn’t it?
I just think it’s bindboggling that a 25 and a half year old kid with 2 and 2/3 years in MLB will be making at the very least $8 million, 2 Cy Youngs nothwithstanding. This may be all there is, you know?
IMO Lincecum is a great example of conventional scouting wisdom being wrong (he’s too small).
I’ll take small guys who can pitch like him every time.
Doreen,
They are trying to reach a 2 year agreement.
If it is just for one year Lincecum has little incentive to negotiate here. The Giants screwed up this one submitting 8 million
Nevermind, I looked at the article again that I got that info from and what I said was not correct. Apparently Lincecum is only negotiating for a one year deal. Since the talks are not going well I assume he is only willing to discuss something very close to 13 million. Regardless the 8 million dollar thing being stupid still stands.
“Teams signing young pitchers to long-term deals during their arbitration years has become increasingly common…”
That’s why it is becoming increasingly important for the Yankees to grow their own.
……………………
Had Chien-Ming Wang not been injured in ’08 he was on track to be bought out of some FA time and signed long term.
If Joba and Phil impress this year they could be next in line.
Rich,
You are living proof that not all opinions are created equal.
“Had Chien-Ming Wang not been injured in ‘08 he was on track to be bought out of some FA time and signed long term.”
———————
I do not think the Yankees ever had plans of buying out arbitration years or keeping him around long term. Wang was a goner when he hit FA and possibly even traded before then.
There is a reason the Yankees fought over the $600,000. They did not see him as a smart long-term investment
It’s kind of crazy that Lincecum is asking for $13 million, and the Yankees couldn’t even give Wang $4.6 million, which is only 1/3 of that.
Lincecum cut his hair a bit and doesn’t look like Marilyn Manson so much anymore. Saw him recently on Diamond Demos on the MLB Network. Looks like he put on a bit of muscle as well.
Hello everyone. I have been away for a few days as my brother and mother died two days apart. Today was spent attending funerals for them both.
Baseball shall be, as it has been before, my escape froms the real world.
The next time people on the blog start fighting over UZR or UZR150 etc, please remember what and who are truly imprtant.
However, I still think the Yankees need another outfielder.
RS
February 4th, 2010 at 7:24 pm
It’s kind of crazy that Lincecum is asking for $13 million, and the Yankees couldn’t even give Wang $4.6 million, which is only 1/3 of that.
—————————
Why?
Wang has never been even close to the pitcher that Lincecum has in the past 2 years.
Austinmac -
I’m sorry for your loss.
How long does an arbitration deal last? One year? Multiple years?
Austinmac, Very sad, I’m lost for words….
If you do not sign a long term deal before FA:
Play for 3 years, arbitration for 3 years (new 1 year deal every year), hit FA
A much as I don’t want to revisit this stuff like this really ticks me off. Boras still seems to maintain there was no offer for Damon and Damon himself last week when he did the interview on WFAN said there WAS. Why do writers like Nightengale continue to put this stuff out there. IN addition if JOhnny Damon is the difference between 3 teams winning or not winning the division wouldn’t those teams have moved a bit quicker here
http://www.usatoday.com/sports.....amon_N.htm
Now that Peter has gone to cover his hometown team, is it finally ok to say that the Yankees were correct in their case of taking Wang to arbitration instead of buying out his remaining years?
Obviously his stats showed that he was heading in the wrong direction and approaching 30 with no secondary pitches. Bravo Yankees for being astute for once.
Austinmac, my heart is aching for you. Nothing means more than family, and no pain is greater than losing family members, especially close family members. You and your family are in my prayers. Here’s hoping that the Yankees can provide you at least a little distraction in the meantime.
God bless
Trisha
The perfect example of the insensitivity of response on this blog.
Here a guy tells you his mother and brother have passed and only two people respond. I just don’t get it.
Sorry for your loss AustinMac.
Make it 3 with Trisha.
Sorry for your losses AustinMac. Too much and too soon.
R.I.P.
AustinMac
Condolences to you and your family.
AustinMac ill have you and your family in my prayers tonight.
AustinMac
So sorry for your losses.
austinmac,
My prayers are with you and your family. Very sorry for your losses.
Austinmac-
So sorry for you & your family. Hang in there.
mick,
I don’t think folks were being insensitive. There’s not a lot going on baseball-wise and there’s not a steady audience here. I only pop in and out a couple times a day like many others. Austinmac has the condolences of every poster here in absentia. I can’t even imagine the pain of losing 2 members of your family so close apart.
Some players contracts are based on what they can do for a team for 162 games.
Other players contracts are based on what they can do for a team 365 days a year.
Baseball vs. the business of baseball.
Derek will get a 365 day contract.
From a baseball perspective it may appear to be overpaying for a 37 year old SS but from a business perspective he is a solid investment for generating income in YES revenue. Having the #1 selling MLB jersey doesn’t hurt either.
My condolences AustinMac. I wish them well on their journey.
I just viewed the most recent photos of the demolition of Yankee Stadium ….The reality is relly starting to set in now that the Granstand itself is near to being chipped away….And with every chip, there goes a memory of the Historic Stadium……I still have such mixed emotions about this……They’ll have their work cut out for themselves when it’s time to raze the outer walls, as they remained even during the renovation in 74-75….The contactor and engineers at that time remarked on it’s solidness and they elected to by pass that portion of the project back then…..I do hope the effort to save Gate 2 is not in vain….
AustinMac, my condolences. That has to be really tough.
Just scrolled through the comments to the previous post.
I have a hypothetical question. Let’s pretend the Yanks really had a budget. Let’s also pretend the Twins aren’t signing Mauer. If the Yanks only had $25MM to spend, would you give it to Jeter, or to Mauer?
Wave Your Hat,
I’d pay Mauer $20mil and then ask Derek to pretend he doesnt care playing for $5 mil.
austinmac-
I am so sorry to read about your loss.
If you ever want to talk, your Yankee family is here
Time for a new budget…..
austinmac. That is horrible news about your family. I am so sorry for your losses. Words are inadequate.
Just raise the debt ceiling, Pat…
Just got home and finished dinner –
Austinmac – I’m very sorry for your loss. I really am. Stay strong.
AUSTINMAC
My condolences.
-> new thread
Austinmac, my prayers are with you and your family. A loss of a loved one, never mind two, is hard to deal with, particularly so close together.
Saint
AustinMac:
My condolences….
…very sorry for your loss.
I wish you well.