Pinch hitting: Pete Colgan
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Feb 12, 2010 
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Wrapping up the Pinch Hitters series is Pete Colgan, who came up with his own way to define the greatest moments in Yankees history.
Pete lives in Central Illinois and has been a Yankees fan since 1962. In coming up with his list of the greatest moments in Yankees history, Pete worked from his own spreadsheet of data he’s collected.
“E-mail it?” he wrote. “No, its not on my computer. I have it in a notebook. I’m old school.”
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Mariano Rivera is pitching in a non-save situation. A ground ball to second and a quick flip to first. A great moment has just occurred? Better than the no hitters by guys named Reynolds, Righetti, Abbott and Gooden? Better than the perfectos of Wells and Cone? Yes, better than any other, because this is the final out of the 2009 World Series and my pick for one of the 27 greatest moments in Yankees history.
What moment is better for a fan than the moment their team wins it all? I’ve followed the Yankees since 1962, the year McCovey’s line drive found Bobby Richardson’s glove with the tying and winning runs in scoring position to end Game 7. I have read books and viewed videos proclaiming a multitude of greatest moments: Home runs like Maris’s 61st or Ruth’s 60th. Pennant winners from Chambliss and Boone. DiMaggio’s 56-game hitting streak. Gehrig’s 2130 consecutive games.
In my mind none of these moments can match the thrill and exhilaration of that moment of winning it all, pure and simple. Thankfully none of the winners have been quite as harrowing as 1962 and McCovey’s near miss.
I recently made up a hand written spreadsheet of each of the 27 clinching moments. Most are ordinary plays involving mostly ordinary players. I can tell you, as much as baseball has changed the more it stays the same. Today it is always the closer getting that final out, and true to form, Mariano has closed the last four championships, with Wetteland and Gossage the two prior. Used to be guys like Gomez and Ruffing and even Torrez and Terry finished what they started. But check out Johnny Murphy and Joe Page, both pioneer relievers who closed out a combined four of the eight championships between 1936 and 1949. Ever hear of Bob Kuzava? He closed out two straight clinchers during the run of Casey Stengel. Second guess Casey for using Kuzava? Why should you? Casey won five straight championships. You can look it up.
Sure, some big names have fallen as the final outs. Guys like Hodges, Reese and Robinson — all of Brooklyn — made the final outs. So too did lesser knowns like Wasdell, Garmes and Yvars, plus names of recent vintage like Lemke, Sweeney and Lockhart. For every McCovey or Piazza there seems to be three or four of these quite ordinary players. Yet, they are all a part of the 27 greatest moments
I look at my spreadsheet and see only 10 clinchers at home. That means 17 on the road followed by a long train or plane ride home? Not exactly, because eight of the 17 road wins occurred at Ebbets Field, Polo Grounds and Shea, all just a bus or subway ride from the Bronx. So 18 of the 27 celebrations were kicked off somewhere in New York City. Two championships were won in the Yankees final at bat. The team that legend says intimidated the Pirates by merely taking batting practice, the Murderer’s Row team of 1927, walked off on a wild pitch of all things, and Billy Martin clinched 1953 with a line drive single.
It is that split second that leads to the subsequent wild celebration: The weak grounder, the routine fly ball, the strikeout and yes, McCovey’s scorcher to Richardson. It is all about the moment, the place, the people and the final play.
Ordinary as the final play might be, no Yankees fan can deny, THIS moment as the ultimate. All 27 of them. Putting it in perspective, Reggie Jackson’s three homer game will always be remembered as the greatest memory of 1977. But Reggie’s third home run wasn’t even the greatest moment of that game. Instead it was Mike Torrez squeezing the final out, a pop up bunt by Lee Lacy. Reggie’s heroics were merely stepping stones to one of the greatest moments in Yankees history. One of 27. We all know about Larsen’s perfect game, but it too was a precursor to THE event of 1956: Jackie Robinson’s strike out ending Game 7.
So now pitchers and catchers are about to report and great moments can be anticipated. What great moments lie ahead for the 2010 Yankees? Walk off wins, performances worthy of MVP and Cy Young awards, unimaginable feats of hitting and pitching may all be in our 2010 season just ahead. For all of these great feats I’ll take another routine grounder to second to end another Yankee championship and in the process become one of the TWENTY-EIGHT greatest moments in Yankees History.
Loved your post!!!!
Pete,
Great post. Really has me ready for baseball season to begin!
PLEASE NO MORE PINCH HITTERS!!!!!!!! Awful, Awful…
Great job Pete
Great post – a good read!
Still get the chills reliving that line drive Big Mac smoked at Bobby Richardson.Same pitcher(Ralph Terry)that threw that infamous HR to Maz the year before,found redemption in SF.
Of course it was the outstanding fielding gem by Roger Maris that saved that game and made that line drive by MacCovey so memorable.
pat
February 12th, 2010 at 9:40 am
Canseco or someone else with knowledge and a diminishing bank account may have a book in them if a player currently unlinked to PEDs gets into the HOF.
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Let the speculations begin, pat. Rumors say that there already is one in the HOF. Any guesses? Mine is Kirby Puckett.
Bob Kuzava was there because he was a very reliable pitcher in those situations. Those Yankee players still alive from that era would have no trouble remembering him.
I agree 100%. This was by far my favorite pinch hitter. Pete put into words exactly how I’ve always felt.
Really nice post. I rarely comment, but I was just smiling about the thought of these special moments.
Although, for me, this moment is also bittersweet. Why? It signals the end of the baseball season. And as much as I love seeing the Yankees win, I just love watching baseball. So there is always that bit of sadness for me when that final out gets recorded.
I LOVE it! Great post! My favorite I didn’t even get to see. Pop-up caught by Charlie Hayes in 1996! We were in the car returning from a college hockey game. Jumped out in the parking lot and screamed and jumped and yelled and well, you know! Then went up to my son’s dorm room to watch the post game and celebration! AWESOME!!! This was after 10 years of being a fan and some not so good years of baseball!
I’m SO ready for this season! Getting my score books ready. I scored all 162 games and every post season game last year! Unlike a lot of people, I really enjoy the regular season almost as much as the post season. Lot long now!
I think Phil has done just fine without the benefit of Christian Garcia’s wisdom.
MTU, I’m sorry, but I’m not giving up on Phil developing a proper change. It doesn’t have to be great, just good enough. He has an aptitude for pitching and I just believe that with work, he will get it down. Whatwith his injuries and trying to regain his FB command (not to mention being put in the pen, where he’s not about to use his worst pitch), Phil hasn’t had the time necessary to develop the change.
Eiland is asking an awful lot of him (and it’s unfair) in asking Phil to develop a change ASAP. Is he to work on that to the exclusion of everything else? He’s not going to use the change in the pen, that’s for sure. I don’t quite get how Phil is supposed to compete for the 5th spot AND work on things at the same time – they are incompatible. If he wants to win the spot, he’s going to have to use his best pitches and I hardly think the change will be one of them. It seems to me the Yankees are giving Phil mixed messages, but then I’ve never thought they’ve handled him properly.
Good post Pete. I never thought of it that way, but it is the final out and then the celebration that you remember.
For those who complain about pinch hitters, we have had a variety of topics and perspectives. Maybe some interest you, and others, not so much. Regardless, it invites a different discussion than the usual where will Johnny end up? who will the OFs be? who will be the 5th SP? etc
On the flip side, too, you often remember the last out of a LOSING season too. That feeble grounder to Becket by Posada in 2003 Game 6 still haunts me.
BTW, Pete, can we get a look at this spreadsheet? I would love to see the official list.
pounder
February 12th, 2010 at 9:59 am
Still get the chills reliving that line drive Big Mac smoked at Bobby Richardson.Same pitcher(Ralph Terry)that threw that infamous HR to Maz the year before,found redemption in SF.
Of course it was the outstanding fielding gem by Roger Maris that saved that game and made that line drive by MacCovey so memorable.
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Stengel screwed up the 1960 WS more than Terry did, and Skowrons’s screw-up on a grounder to first in the 8th inning of game 7 did more to blow that series than Terry.
In game 7 of 1962, Maris’ stop was only part of the play. Look at the video of that play and look how far out in right field Richardson went to make the cutoff. The reason? Richrdson and Maris was hiding Maris’ arm injury and the fact that it was as far as he could throw.
Betsy,
Really, stop babying Phil Hughes.
Dave Eiland isn’t asking any more of Hughes than he is any other pitcher on the staff. He’s not being singled out. He’s one of the most important members on the team.
He’s a professional baseball player, not a child. He has to develop other pitches and he will. Its not a big deal.
He doesn’t have to put up results in ST. He has to get ready for the season.
In other words, if he goes into an outing and throws a ton of change ups and gets belted around, while panic will set in for some, the Yankees won’t mind. Its about developing his other pitches and getting ready for the season. Its not about putting up lofty ST stats.
Whether or not he wins the fifth starter spot will depend on the progress he makes with his other pitches. That’s what ST is for with pitchers.
Outstanding final post Pete. Lovin’ the old school way you put together the spreadsheet.
Great post Pete!
Can Hughes hack it as a SP? Maybe 3 more years of maturing is needed?
I’m not a big fan of this post – pretty lame to simply say that the best moments in a team’s history are the moments they won the championship.
More interesting are those other moments that are great but are not the cliché of winning a title. Plus, not all WS wins are the same. The ’96 title was really special compared the ones that came after. It was a return to greatness by a team that had struggled for more than a decade. I felt like my team did the unthinkable – they were once again a real contender after years of players like Steve Balboni (who always epitomizes the down years for me).
Plus, a game like the walk-off homer by Boone was probably just as special to me as their WS title in ’99, and infinitely more memorable (yes, we were all spoiled in ’99 after winning two of the last 3).
Great post. The one I remember the most is 2000 when Bernie caught the final out on a laser by Piazza. Three championships in a row, four in five years for a truly great team that was chugging toward the end of its dynasty run.
That team haunted the Yankees through the ’00s until 2009 which was the first team not worried about the old guys and created their own team identity. Hopefully the squad can start another impressive title run.
It wouldn’t benefit anyone for Phil to come to spring training and just throw fastballs and curve balls and put up a 1.80 ERA. That isn’t going to help him be an effective starter.
The Yankees are going to choose whichever guy they think will be the best 5th starter and in order to do that Hughes needs to work on his secondary pitches.
So, the Giants and Lincecum are supposedly closing in on a deal. Does three years at $15 mil per sound about right?
Most secondary pitches are worked on in side sessions anyways.
this is just a test, GB.
How are you feeling?
Its true that secondary pitches are developed mostly in side sessions but at some point they have to be applied against hitters in a game. Spring training is the perfect place to do that beause the games don’t count…that’s what its for.
Pretty fair, Tom. Thanks for asking. Just sitting at the airport, waiting for a flight. I feel like I should be holding up a bank or something with this stupid mask on, though.t
Safe Flight, GB.
It really does suck, hopefully, better days are ahead.
Be well.
You can expect to see Hughes unveil his change-up pretty often, but, mostly against the NL teams. No sense in letting the AL teams see it early. I also think that Rivera breaks out his beauty a few times this year.
Thanks again, Tom. I could be worse. Nurse Karloff could have kidnapped me. Thank God that she now has the hots for Randy.
GreenBeret7
February 12th, 2010 at 11:00 am
Pretty fair, Tom. Thanks for asking. Just sitting at the airport, waiting for a flight.
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Nurse Karloff isn’t there with you is she??
Did everyone else get the reply tabs on the posts? I tried to reply but it kicked me off the site and when I logged back in the reply tabs were gone?
YankeeRay
February 12th, 2010 at 11:07 am
Did everyone else get the reply tabs on the posts? I tried to reply but it kicked me off the site and when I logged back in the reply tabs were gone?
*********************
I saw them come up briefly, and then they were gone.
SJ, You may not care whether he’s in the pen or the rotation, but I’m pretty sure Phil would rather start. There is a competition for the 5th spot (something you’ve said before was a good idea), so how is it that results don’t matter for Phil? On one hand, they are telling him to work on his changeup and on the other that he’s competing for a spot. I’m sorry, there’s a dichotomy there. As to your babying comment, I have no idea what that means. I’m not going to apologize because I would like to see Phil start.
Blake, the games count for Phil and Joba……The Yankees have emphasized the competition all off-season; how is Phil (or Joba) not supposed to take that seriously?
The final outs are always great moments but there is always a pivotal play in that final game where the mind switches from hope to genuine belief that your team will be champions.
For game 6 last season it was Hideki’s bases loaded single in the 3rd inning that did it for me. It was very early in the game but I just felt that the Yanks were going to control the game from that point on.
It was also a great memory for me as it happened as I was on my way home from work while I was listening on my Iphone and I stopped on Central Park South to watch the at bat through the window at Mickey Mantle’s. So now for the rest of my life whenever I pass by Mickey Mantle’s, I’ll always remember Hideki and the 2009 championship.
Betsy,
The games dont count. How Joba and Phils pitches look in those games count.
Good post Pete
Coach, that’s my point. If Phil is going to be working on his change, his results are not going to be that good and he’s not going to look that good. I’m just having a hard time seeing how one can compete seriously for a spot and still be working on things.
But they dont care if his change gets hit, because people know its coming. They care what that change is doing.
The Yankees are not going to look at the stats. They are going to look at velocity, movement, location.
Betsy,
Joba is going to be working on his secondary pitches too just like Phil.
GB, how’d the test results come out? I haven’t been around the blog the last few days to have heard…
Thanks for the great post, Pete. Perfect way to close out the pinch hitter series.
Betsy, I think you are missing the point. The competition will be based on which guy they think is better prepared to perform as the 5th starter, not on Spring Training results.
Obviously they will be taking it seriously but its much more important for both of them to work on their weaknesses than go out and put up great Spring Training numbers. ST numbers are meaningless. If Phil comes out and shows improvement in his secondary pitches, good stamina, and good command then he will be the 5th starter..I think its his to lose.
Betsy,
what you don’t understand is, the games don’t count.
As coach said, it’s about velocity, movement and location. The results are secondary.
As long as he continues to grow as a pitcher, he will help the team in whatever role he has.
Phil wants to be in the majors. He said last year he would rather be in the bullpen in NY than starting in
AAA.
Either way, Phil is going to be just fine.
“Betsy, I think you are missing the point. The competition will be based on which guy they think is better prepared to perform as the 5th starter, not on Spring Training results.”
blake, you hit the nail on the head here. The decision better come down to much more than a small sample size of spring training results.
blake,
i disagree. I think Phil needs to be pretty much ridiculous. I really can’t imagine the Yankees, now having the training wheels off of Joba, to just toss him back into the pen, without seeing how he can perform over an entire season, let alone 2 seasons.
Hey this reply thing may be fun.
Now I can have conversations with myself, laugh at my own lame jokes and give myself credit for my own inane observations.
I will now spend the remainder of the day coming up with a cool sounding alter ego screen name.
Coach,
I also think some folks are missing the point if they think this is a do or die ST (as far as their futures as starters) for either guy.
If one ends up in the pen this year, it doesn’t mean they can’t start next year.
At their respective ages, perhaps not blowing out their innings will add longevity to their careers.
pull my finger….
hey that would be multi masking.
Coach,
I don’t think the Yankees will ignore the fact that Joba looked much more confident and suddenly found 5 MPH on his fastball when coming out of the pen in the playoffs last year.
I also don’t think they will let past decisions affect what they do moving forward. Meaning just because Joba started last year doesn’t mean they will put Hughes in the pen if he’s ready to go as a starter this year.
Well- this looks odd!
I agree with that as well. If the Yankees, strictly look at what happens in ST games, than, something has gone wrong. I mean hell, even Wang was lights out in ST last year.
NO!
I realize there is competition for the 5th spot, and have no intention of starting up the ‘Joba the starter vs. Joba the reliever’ debate, but I really am unsure how the Yanks will handle this.
Joba has logged more innings than Phil. He has total innings freedom this season (first time since being called up). He was sometimes frustrating to watch as a starter for sure, but other times he looked like the dominant pitcher the Yanks had predicted he could be. Phil, meanwhile, took a step back last season regarding his inning limits. He will have to be watched over the way Joba was last season if he is supposed to be our 5th starter.
Everyone seems to think that whoever does not perform well in spring training will simply be relegated to the bullpen, but I just don’t see how that benefits either of these young pitchers. If you put Joba back there, the plan has to be to keep him there for good. I understand some people would agree with this decision, but I’d really like to see the kid get to pitch without being burdened by certain limitations at least for a season. In regards to Phil, putting him back in the pen essential stunts his growth as a pitcher for another year.
Is there a solution that allows both pitchers to continue to move forward without taking steps backwards? I have no idea lol. I am curious to see how Girardi works with his pitchers. And of course you have to anticipate injuries. With that obstacle especially in mind, I wouldnt hate the idea of starting the season with a 6 man rotation. If not, can we send Hughes down for a while to start and work on his change up until we need him? Or would a move like that screw with his confidence/development as well? I just think it would be kind of ridiculous, after spending two seasons grooming Joba to start, to then not allow him to try and start without limits. All this “his stuff is electric out of the pen” is lost on me. I’ve seen him perform well and poorly both as a starter and a reliever. He’s just young as far as I’m concerned and needs to hone his skills. I like what I’ve seen from Phil too, as a starter early on and I also really liked how he performed out of the bullpen when he was more agressive with his pitches. But he was also shaky in that role as the moments became more pressure packed.
5 mph seriously. Of course he found 5mph. He was only going to pitch 1 inning. The whole velocity thing is ridiculous. How did that 5mph work out for him when he missed his spot on Pedro Feliz. If he doesnt locate, he is going to get hit. Phil was pedestrian in the post season, does that mean they think he cant pitch any more?
I disagree here. I think if Joba or Hughes ends up in the pen for the year, that is pretty much locking them into that role until they move to another team.
Hughes was great in the pen last season, but I don’t think they need Joba or Hughes there this season. I’d put the ST loser in AAA and have him be the 6th man.
Only way I’d put any of them in the pen is if they were guaranteed to start were someone to get injured, which isn’t going to happen because they will make some excuse about how long it takes to stretch them out.
SJ,
would you agree that its more do or die for Joba than it is for Hughes with regards to being a starter? I don’t think thats 100% the case but I do think that if Joba ends up in the pen next year then there is a much greater chance he remains there than there would be if the same happened with Hughes.
I saw this article about brian Cashman and his comments yesterday at a event in New Haven and I think it is important enough to link.SOme very candid comments by Cash especially in relation to Damon and echos what many on this blog have been saying.
http://itsaboutthemoney.net/ar.....re-not-me/
That strikeout (and Yogi had to throw to first to complete the play, by the way) was the last at bat of Jackie Robinson’s career.
Very happy to see the reply button feature up and running.
Now if more people will just start using it….
Coach,
You’re not understanding what I’m saying. Are you denying that Joba has looked much better as a reliever than he has as a starter thus far in his career? Look I would love for both of them to wind up being quality big league starters, I just have more confidence that will happen with Hughes than I do with Joba and personality wise and stuff wise I think Joba is better suited for the pen.
Thanks for the link.
I hate it, the page looks too busy.
UNDO!!! Tech Guy who looks like the guy from Sorpanos. UNDO!!!!
I agree
Joba got worse as a reliever each season. He had a very good era as a starter in the minors and his first season. No contest, joba is a starter
Heh i was just going to link the same article. You beat me to it.
Good stuff.
not sure if I like this…now you have to scroll through the whole page to find replys rather than just looking at the bottom…
It might just take some time to get used to.
Can we make the reply button a bit smaller? Its a little distracting….
I’m fine with it as long as there is an option to not use it. I don’t like hunting for new posts. Maybe a way to color new posts on refresh?
Blake,
Joba was great as a reliever in 2007. He was ok as a reliever in 2008. And he was average in the post season.
Joba has also shown more as a starter than Phil has. Joba and Phil are both going to be starters. If the Yankees didnt believe that, one of them would have been traded by now.
Attitude, you mean, pumping his fist after a strikeout?
I know-it’s definitely different. I’m not too wild about it either.
Erin
February 12th, 2010 at 11:06 am
GreenBeret7
February 12th, 2010 at 11:00 am
Pretty fair, Tom. Thanks for asking. Just sitting at the airport, waiting for a flight.
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Nurse Karloff isn’t there with you is she??
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No, Erin. Randy “stole” her from me. Bless his little heart. As I understand it, now Pat M. wants to meet her for a little hein’ and shein’.
Some are better than others, and I thought this one was excellent.
Only thing about the reply button is now I have to scroll all the way back up if I am going to follow a thread correct or am I missing something.
I really hate that I now have to scroll through the whole page to see if there is anything new. I will now be watsing even more time at work. INEFFICIENT!
I’m on the same page as you Jerkface..
Coach – I hear what you’re saying but youre argument sounds far too much like a lot of other fans. Its based on how Joba “looks as a reliever” or on an individual’s perception of his “makeup as a reliever” or something about his personality being “more suited for the pen.” Its all just that, perception. We’ve never seen the kid start a full season even though he’s been on our roster for two seasons. He needs to at least get a shot there after being limited for so long. They’d be crazy to have stretched him out in such a way only to throw him back in the pen now. But we are on the same page in that we are hoping they both turn out to be quality starters.
“Attitude, you mean, pumping his fist after a strikeout?”
no, he just looks for confident and attacks hitters instead of nibbleing around. They may both the starters long term but I think Phil will be the 5th starter next year.
YES!
I welcome all to come into my comment and pull Coach 6423′s finger!
LOL. You were very generous setting her up with Randy. I’m sure he really appreciates it.
Ooh, I don’t think I’m going to like the threaded format; it’s going to make it hard to catch up on conversations that you miss.
meant to direct this at blake and tell coach i agreed with him.. sorry lol, the new format messed me up!
Craw, perhaps so, but Joba is a year ahead of Phil on the development curve so he doesn’t have to work on his stuff as much as Phil.
Blake, I understand what ST is for. That is why I don’t “get” the idea of a competition as it goes against everything ST is about. I find it hard to believe the Yankees have emphasized the idea of a competition and then they are going to pick Joba or Phil based on anything other than results. Are you suggesting that the Yankees would choose the pitcher who looks better but has poorer results? I’m not missing the point, by the way. I am just having a hard time seeing how a pitcher can work on his pitchers and still compete to win – and let’s not pretend that Joba and Phil don’t want to “win” the 5th spot. I imagine it’s very important to them.
SJ, I’m sure Phil wants to help the team and he will never say anything otherwise. Are you telling me that, personally, Phil doesn’t really care whether he starts ore relieves? I don’t believe that for a minute – I believe wholeheartedly that this kid wants to start (not that this comes as a surprise; what pitcher grows up wanting to be a reliever). He’ll do what the team asks because he wants to be in the big leagues and because he’s not selfish, but he was groomed as a starter his whole career and I expect he thought he’d be further along by now.
Jerkface, I agree. I think there’s a good chance the Yankees convert Phil to a reliever and he leaves as a FA (personally, I hope he does) to become a starter. SJ, you yourself have said that you want Andy to return as long as he wants to and pitches well. That means Phil (assuming Joba wins the 5th spot) stays in the pen in 2011 – IMO, that’s a terrible idea.
This reply thing is gonna be really hard to follow if you are on a blackberry.
I disagree. I think you’ll learn to really like it.
I am going to keep yelling “UNDO”!!!!
UNDO!!!
LOL I’m not going to use the reply function – it’s terrible.
I smell a blog poll.
This is a democracy right????
Joba has more value to this team in trade, than he does in the bullpen.
It’s much better than copying and pasting other people’s posts so you can reply to it. It’s just much more orderly. give it a chance.
chronological was easy on the brain.
however, it doesn’t hurt to try something new.
i used to use the find function on my mac to look up commenters i follow.
with posts in chronological order , there was an easy to understand logic about the whole thing.
i’m not so sure about this new way ,but there’s one way to find out how it will work.
.. but the blogmasters should remember sometimes less is more.
Disagree on Joba showing more as a starter vs Hughes. They have both shown a lot. Hughes has a bunch of very good starts in his career. His bad ones really weigh him down though. Same with Joba.
Hughes – vs Tex twice, the Rays, the Jays, Detroit. Minus the Orioles game where he gave
Joba – Detroit, Boston, Cleveland
“Are you suggesting that the Yankees would choose the pitcher who looks better but has poorer results? ”
no, just the pitcher that looks like the better starter..results are irrelevant. They are there only to work on pitches and get themselves in shape for the season. ST has nothing to do with winning or losing. Of course both would like to win the 5th starter job but it will have nothing to do with who has the best ST stats. It will only have to do with which looks better prepared to start.
OK, I’m officially not a fan of the reply function. Way too hard to follow conversations.
I think that stinks.
I have to say, if spring training is going to be a constant back-and-forth on Joba and Phil, I’m going to have a nervous breakdown! Seriously.
I don’t see where either guy is in a bad position. The absolute worst that either is going to have to deal with, if things go well and they stay healthy, is one of them will be pitching out of the bullpen for the time being on a championship team. Cry me a river.
What will be will be.
shame, I know, I’m not smart enough to keep up with all of this.
Correct. Loser should go to AAA to build innings for at least the 1st half of the season.
Erin, I agree……it’s awful and it’s not just a matter of getting used to something new. It makes no logical sense to me.
but you have to read through the whole post to find responses.
Thanks for the link, gayle. Very candid comments by Cashman. Can’t say I disagree with him at all. Regardless of what kind of contract Damon ends up signing.
Well, we havent heard either of them complain. that’s all that matters in the grand scheme of things.
New Post: Waiting for another grounder to second
I’m fine with a poll. But I think it should come in 30 days.
Threaded comments don’t work on blogs for the following reasons:
- With messageboards, ‘threads’ are bumped to the top of the page when they are replied to, and many messageboards have buttons which take you directly to new posts and / or color old posts so you don’t waste time slogging through stuff you have read
- Blog ‘threads’ are static entities on a page and do not move, which means conversations could be happening at the top AND bottom of a blog comment dump simultaneously
- For posts which are top to bottom , chronological makes the most sense, because the order and location of the comment matter. Threading posts just jumbles things up unnecessarily.
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This is not a messageboard, unless you want to make it act like one I say get rid of threaded comments, they are obnoxious in anything other than a forum.
Go back to chronological and have the reply button automatically paste the comment you are replying to into your comment box.
And how disappointing will it be to scroll all the way back to an old comment to see that no one has replied.
New post by the way.
Not too bad, Rodg. I was hoping for better, but, it’s better than the alternatives. They were somewhat concerned with the blood workm but, I figure that it was the camouflaged pattern or, maybe it was the beer and pizza look.
It works well when replying to a particular post, but it’s not great when you’re interesting in more than one thread. Lots of scrolling up and down.
If you’re in “read only” mode, it’s fine, I guess, but you still have to scroll up and down if you want to keep current with a particulara thread.
I guess we have to give it a chance to get used to it, but it does seem inefficient, as someone else (Erica?) said.
The responses being different colors makes it easier to scroll through and fing your particular comment thread. Plus, the real benefit is that if you dont like a particular topic/conversation you can just scroll past the blue responses to the next comment.
Who are you going to trade him for a future closer? If he is our future closer then he has tremendous value in our bullpen. We can sign a FA pitcher later and still keep Joba as our future closer or put him back in the rotation if thats where he belongs.
The value in a trade is probably for a Halladay which we passed on and now we can sign Lee or Webb if we want a top of the line starter.
I disagree.
Joba needs as much work on his secondary pitches (some would argue more given his walk totals last year) as Phil. Just because he started last year, that doesn’t give him a leg up on that front.
He has a leg up on innings. That’s it. Truth be told, Phil had a better season than Joba did last year. That also plays into the decision.
In case some forget, Joba was the worst starting pitcher in the AL for the last 5 weeks of the season.
His curveball, slider (throwing it for strikes rather than continuing to miss away) and change up, as well as fastball command, all need work.
Betsy,
There is an old baseball axiom which states, “Never reach a conclusion on a player in September or Spring Training”. You often get false reads.
The Yankees aren’t going to choose their fifth starter based on who has the best stats at the end of the spring.
We have this discussion every year on the board with people who use ST stats as an argument for why guys should play.
That’s not how teams evaluate guys.
If Derek Jeter goes 0-40 in the spring and Ramiro Pena goes 35-40, guess who the starting SS is on Opening Day?
If CC Sabathia is 0-4 with a 10 ERA and Chad Gaudin is 4-0 with a 0.00 ERA, guess who is the Opening Day starter?
The Yankees will choose the fifth starter based on whomever they feel will give them the best chance to win.
That will come from watching how free and easy guys throw…..how their secondary stuff is translating…..and fastball command.
The stats won’t play a role in it.
Yes.
Yes to Jerkface, not to CountryClub.
If you missed this week’s Yankee magazine on YES, they have a nice little interview with Jesus Montero, who’s been in Florida working out since January.
If most people don’t use the reply function, we should be ok.
SJ, and I completely agree about using ST that way. It’s why I never thought this “competition” was a good idea. If the Yankees are going to treat it like you think, then it’s fine.
I didn’t think Joba pitched well last year, especially in the second half. I do think most fans still drool over his velocity and think that if it returns, he will be dominant. I still don’t like his stubborness and the velocity thing bothers me. There are plenty of pitchers who throw hard who can’t hit the side of a barn. By the same token, there are fans and others who think Phil won’t succeed as a starter because his velocity will drop upon his return to the rotation. That’s silly. He was healthy last year and his velocity returned to 92-94 as a starter. He’s got great late life and, when he’s on, amazing command. I enjoyed watching him paint the corner – it was fun to watch. As a fan of Phil personally, I just want to see him fulfill his potential. As a fan of the team, I want both Joba and Phil to do well.
Because if Phil’s fastball has that late life and his curve hammers down he will win the spot regardless of how hard is change gets hit. I think the point is the ‘competition’ won’t be won by either guy because they have a lower ST ERA.
How is it hard? The conversations flow directly under one another, like now if we want to discuss your comment we can see all the replies in succession below it.
I too disagree. Now everytime I want to see responses to Jerkface’s well thought out post I’ll come here.
While your points about message board mechanics are valid I think that a lot of times comments get lost and conversations that could otherwise be had are ignored because of the old style on here. Now, if people want to carry on a discussion they don’t have to worry about being missed or bothering the rest of the board.
+1 Chris Moltisanti
would you rather there was just nothing posted on the site for the last 3 weeks? please, no more whining.
I can surely agree with this post. Joba has the talent to be a starter and I get upset when posters say he looks more comfortable coming out of the pen. Looks? What has that got to do with it. After all he was to pitch only one inning. Now with the trainer wheels off he should rock.
Excellent post. Totally agree. It doesn’t seem to make sense to work with Joba for two season’s and then loser out goes to the pen. Joba does needs 2010 to pitch to his abilities as a starter w/o restriction.
His second half was not as good as he can be. But he did very, very well in the WS. I also agree that both Joba and Phil have had development set backs. IMO if both were not on the Yankees each would be at least #3 or #4 on another team.
You big cry baby!