The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


An insight into the no-extensions policy (UPDATES with more from Cashman)

Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Feb 16, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

UPDATE, 12:29 p.m.: In a nice bit of timing, I just spoke to Brian Cashman on the phone and he touched a little more on the Damon process. He says the notion that the Yankees didn’t “engage” with Damon is just plain false and that, despite media reports that Damon might sign for $7 million a year, he fully expects Damon to get the Bobby Abreu-type money of at least $9 million a year.

“I mean, that’s what they said when they turned down our last offer,” Cashman told me. “I told them I was at the level of two years, $13 million and they said ‘no bleeping way’ and then we even floated the one year, $6 million with deferred money and they pointed to the Bobby Abreu deal. So I fully expect him to get Abreu money, unless they were playing us the entire winter. That would be like playing poker without any hand at all and, you know, maybe they did that.”

I asked Cashman if ever had regrets about how he handled a particular negotiation.

“I’m sure in the past, I have, I’ve put some things away but in this case, we did what we could,” he said. “We absolutely did what we could. The information we got from them was loud and clear. We followed Johnny’s guidelines, Johnny’s path. What’s happening now is a lot of spin doctoring by the agent. It didn’t work out. Don’t try to make us look bad or the Yankees look bad. That’s not right.”

—–

(Original post)

Looking out my window right now, it’s hard to imagine anyone being interested in playing catch or taking batting practice, but I guess that’s why spring training is in Florida – Chad’s on his way to Tampa today and a slew of Yankees are already into informal workouts at the minor-league complex. Baseball is here.

While I was doing some reading today, I stumbled across a story from a few days ago that had some interesting quotes from Brian Cashman. Cash spoke at the University of New Haven and when asked by a local reporter beforehand about the Yankees policy of not negotiating extensions on expiring contracts, said this:

“The industry the last two free agent markets seems to be going downward and the player’s ages are going upward. It makes more sense to be patient. My attitude is if this is the place you want to be, you will make it happen. Johnny Damon professed his love for the Yankees, wanted to be here and was given every chance to be here. He’s not here anymore and I don’t feel that is the Yankees’ fault. They have to reconcile why they are not here, not me. If people want to be here and be a part of something, then find a way to work it out. Of course we want (Jeter, Rivera and Girardi) back, but we choose to delay that until the end of the year.”

The story also mentions that Cashman extended two contracts earlier in his career – Paul O’Neill’s and Chad Curtis’s – and none since. So there’s some random trivia for you. Cashman also said the Damon negotiations basically ended after the Yankees had two offers (a two-year, $14 million deal and a one-year, $6 million deal) turned down. Cashman has no regrets.

“I told (Damon and Boras), ‘I don’t know if Hal (Steinbrenner, the team’s part owner) would approve it, but I’m not going to fight for it unless we know you will do it,’” Cashman said. “Scott Boras said, ‘Bobby Abreu’s (new) contract is $9 million a year right now on the table so why would we do that? So I expect to see a Bobby Abreu contract.’ … I hope he does not sign for something less than our offer. That means he should have been a Yankee and that’s not our fault.”

 
 

Advertisement

177 Responses to “An insight into the no-extensions policy (UPDATES with more from Cashman)”

  1. mg February 16th, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    Good for Cash…stick your ground.

  2. SJ44 February 16th, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    So this ends the belief the Yankees didn’t make two offers to Damon and didn’t want him back.

    Also ironic since after Boras boys in the media (Rosenthal and Heyman) tried to sell a frenzied bidding war for Johnny’s services on Thursday, he has still yet to sign with anybody.

  3. braeden February 16th, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    I 100% agree with Cashman, if a player wants to stay with the Yankees they with the Yankees, they tell their agent to make it happen. Damon’s wallet was more important to him , than his staying with the Yankees period!

    The Yankees pay a lot, there comes a time when players need to show Cashman you want to stay on the team, Cashman will take care of the rest. Damon’s love of money blinded his false love for the Yankees. Cashman wasn’t going to beg, he doesn’t have to!

  4. RayVT February 16th, 2010 at 12:30 pm

    Gardner in LF could really be exciting!! Balls quite often slice to LF (or RF) and they can challenge the best of fielders. In CF usually the ball is hit straight, so Gardner having trouble with those reads makes it a bit disconcerting. I think he will struggle mightily in LF, thus the talk of playing him in CF. Personally, I believe Gardner will end up on the bench or another team before the season is half over if not before. I think it will be a mistake to take the best CF and move him to left. The best CF for the Yanks is Granderson.

    (Re-post)

  5. Shame Spencer February 16th, 2010 at 12:30 pm

    The longer he’s our GM and the more blunt he’s been the more I love Cash. The guy is a champ!!

  6. blake February 16th, 2010 at 12:30 pm

    You’re not gonna see an Abreu contract Cash.

  7. m February 16th, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    The Yankees have usually (AP 2009) taken good care of the players they want. If players don’t like the terms, they’re free (agents) to find employment elsewhere.

  8. Bob Shirley's Rubber Arm February 16th, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    Good for Cash sticking up for the reality of the situation. I don’t blame Damon – he played the game and had some bad advice and lost.

    On another note, sadly I had to stop following Pete Abe on twitter due to too much Red Sox info I have no desire to read. Bye Pete, thanks for bringing me to this blog years ago, and thanks to Chad and Sam for keeping me here!

  9. Bronx Jeers February 16th, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    I always felt that the minute Abreu signed, Johnny’s market was set.

    In reflection though, Abreu is more valuable to the Angels than Johnny is to the Yanks and furthermore just because Artie Moreno takes the lead on something doesn’t necessarily mean that the Yanks or any other team has to follow suit.

    Abreu could have easily been paid a lot less but we’ll never know because there was only 1 bid.

    Johnny had no bids so obviously that 19 mil number had no significance in regards to his worth.

  10. blake February 16th, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    I love the fact that Cashman is letting Boras know he won’t be hustled.

  11. Sam Borden February 16th, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    Just FYI guys, I updated the post — in a random bit of timing, I just got off the phone with Cash and he gave me some more detail.

  12. Patrick February 16th, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    Abreu was smart, he signed with his 2009 team early on in free agency. Guys that sign early usually get more money. I mean look at Matsui – he doesn’t even play defense and he might get more money than Damon.

  13. MTU February 16th, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    Cash is King (pun intended) ! :)

  14. sunny615 February 16th, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    Wang to the Nats… Damon with no team… Matsui to the Angels… Melky to the Braves…

    Acquired Javy, Nick Johnson, and Granderson…

    Very weird winter. But I have to say, it was a plus.

    I’m a little perplexed by everyone’s proclamation tho that the Red Sox have the best rotation in baseball? Beckett, Lester, Lackey, DiceK, and Buccholz/Wake. Is that better than CC, AJ, Pettitte, Javy and Joba/Hughes?

  15. m February 16th, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    Cash with some very pointed remarks. Doesn’t like being called out, especially with slanderous remarks.

    Bronx Jeers,

    Abreu was a better player imo (able to stay healthy, offense doesn’t rely so heavily on home field). Could be he was rewarded for taking such a low deal in 2009.

    The fact of the matter is that Damon didn’t have much of a market. Just the Yankees.

    And really, I’m not sure that Bobby Abreu gets that deal from anyone but the Angels. So Boras setting Damon’s market based on those terms was shortsighted imo. Especially since there was only a 1-team market and the Yankees weren’t going to overpay for Damon’s services.

  16. vey February 16th, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    Right on Cashman,as late as Aug ,Damon was extolling his love for the Yankees, and how great they treated him. Boras slapped him back to Boras City of Greed, and Damon is still looking for a team.
    Damon has a lot of pride (pride comes before crash,) but sometime soon,(if not already) he’ll have to admit he was wrong to hold out on the Yankees, and leave a city he and his family loved, as well as a stadium that was custom for his swing! Johnny paycheck so long…best wishes.

  17. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day February 16th, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    LOL You go, Cash. He’s not taking any guff from Boras and he’s not allowing the Yanks to look bad when, in reality, it’s Boras and Damon who misplayed the whole thing. Boras had better get used to the idea that he can’t push Cashman around.

  18. Erin February 16th, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    Sounds like the Yankees did everything they possibly could to sign Damon. It’s too bad it didn’t work out, but I’m really looking forward to seeing what this 2010 team can do!

  19. SJ44 February 16th, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    For Cashman to talk publicly about a negotiation, something he never does, it goes to show you how rankled he is about the spin post-negotiations.

    They wanted Damon back. They prioritized it. They were not however going to bid against themselves (a failed Yankee strategy from the past) for a guy of Johnny’s current value to a team.

    You can make the offers. You can’t force a guy to take them.

    In the Yankees case, they did all they could. Unfortunately, the Damon/Boras camp had a much different impression of his marketplace than the Yankees, and everybody else to date, has at this time.

  20. m1kew February 16th, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    From MLB Trades – http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

    The Nationals have agreed to sign Chien-Ming Wang, according to MLB.com’s Bill Ladson (via Twitter). The team hasn’t confirmed the agreement, but they have a press conference scheduled for Friday. We heard last week that the Nationals were the favorites to sign the righty.

  21. blake February 16th, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    he’s not getting an abreu deal. This is the end of the offseason not the beggining like it was when Abreu signed. The teams left don’t have that money to spend unless the Tigers bid against themselves to get to that level.

    Cashman is being a bit sarcastic it seems when he says he expects an abreu type deal for Damon because we all know if there were such a deal out there he would have signed it already.

  22. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    Bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes

    “All that is offered is the chirping about UZR and UZR/150. Even the creator of this dubious metric admits at least 3 years are needed for it to be relevant.”

    Chirping…that really increases the cogency your argument.

    Don’t listen to us. Listen to Cash, who said that he thinks that Gardner can be one of the best CF in MLB.

  23. MTU February 16th, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    The Golden Rule:

    “He who has the Gold makes the rules.” Especially when times are bad.

  24. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2010 at 12:48 pm

    Cash is setting up a way to secure the high ground if Damon accepts a penny less than what Abreu received.

  25. m1kew February 16th, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    SJ144

    I agree with your take on Cashman/Boras/Damon entirely. Cashman read the market correctly whereas Boras/Damon did not. I think Cashman saw Damon as the DH for the next two years whereas the Angels were paying Abreu to also play in the outfield.

  26. Erin February 16th, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    m1kew
    February 16th, 2010 at 12:44 pm
    From MLB Trades – http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

    The Nationals have agreed to sign Chien-Ming Wang, according to MLB.com’s Bill Ladson (via Twitter). The team hasn’t confirmed the agreement, but they have a press conference scheduled for Friday. We heard last week that the Nationals were the favorites to sign the righty.

    *******************

    Congrats to Wang. I wish him all the best.

  27. Patrick February 16th, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    blake,

    Of course he’s being sarcastic.

  28. m February 16th, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    The only chirping I hear is from Boras!

    And what’s really sad, is that it’ll go back to business as usual between Boras and the Yankees. There’s some kind of cannabalistic symbiosis there. But Damon’s the one that loses it out. And that’s zero fault of the Yankees. They were not going to pay him close to his previous AAV.

  29. SJ44 February 16th, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    Or, maybe he is speaking the truth about the negotiations and doesn’t like Boras spinning something to the contrary.

    Of course he is being sarcastic about the Abreu money because Johnny is getting close to Abreu money.

    I think he is just ticked off at the false statements Boras has made (“The Yankees never made any offers” is just one example) and is tired of keeping quiet about it.

  30. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    Sure there is sarcasm is Cash’s tone, but it’s sarcasm based on fact. He is repeating Boras’s position that Damon needed Abreu-like money in order to get a deal done with the Yankees, so if that isn’t what he ends up getting, he wants the public to know that Boras was blowing smoke all along.

  31. SJ44 February 16th, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    is **not** getting anything close to Abreu money. Sorry for the typo.

  32. paul c February 16th, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    Cashman thanks for sticking to your plan, by early on signing Geanderson.

    If Damon gets Abreu money, it shows he was always about the money, and nothing to do with staying with the Yankees.

    If he signs for 7M he uprooted his family for nothing.

    If he sign for less than 7M ,he’ll be the laughingstock of baseball, because he walked away from 14M.

  33. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day February 16th, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    I’m sure Boras and the Yankees will be fine. Boras can’t afford to tick off the Yankees…… That said, so far this off-season, he’s charged the Yankees a premium (for Nady of all players) and hardly negotiated with Damon. If that means the Yankees bow out on some Boras clients, so be it; as Cash said, if those players really want to be here, they’ll find a way (with or without Boras).

  34. Bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes February 16th, 2010 at 12:58 pm

    Rich in NJ
    February 16th, 2010 at 12:46 pm
    Bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
    “All that is offered is the chirping about UZR and UZR/150. Even the creator of this dubious metric admits at least 3 years are needed for it to be relevant.”
    Chirping…that really increases the cogency your argument.
    Don’t listen to us. Listen to Cash, who said that he thinks that Gardner can be one of the best CF in MLB.
    ====

    Since you posted about one third of my “argument”, as you call it, I’m not surprised that you’re deferring to what the GM “thinks” (fix: “says”) rather than responding to my actual point – omitted by you here – yourself.

  35. lets go yankees February 16th, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    On the Gardner discussion, either way there is no absolute fact on either side of the argument, so whether Gardner is not good, good, great etc. is not going to go anywhere.

    However, given the circumstances in recent weeks I think it is hard to argue that the Yankees think Granderson is better than Gardner in CF. If this was about flexibility they would just have Granderson take some reps in LF and pass it off as we like our OF to take reps in all the OF positions. When questions arose as to why Montero was taking reps at 1B, that is what they did. They just said that we like our catchers taking reps at 1B. They did not come out and start saying that we believe Montero can be one of the best 1B in the minors next year or eventually the big leagues.

    If this was all about flexibility there is no benefit of going around and talking up Gardner as being one of the best defensive CF in baseball next season which both Cashman and Girardi have said. They would not even be discussing the possibility of Gardner in CF. They would just be saying things along the lines of we like Granderson to have some experience in LF just in case.

    Like I alluded to before, you do not invest that much in a player and then start publicly doubting his abilities (which the Yankees are by saying they may shift him to left) unless there is a compelling reason to.

    Finally, a number of people have said that Gardner takes bad routes, or goes back poorly, or misreads the ball of the bat. To me non of that matters when discussing how good he is in CF. All that matters is if he gets to the ball. If he is just relying on his speed to get to the ball what does it matter? So far it seems that he gets to a ton of balls that normal CFs do not. How he gets there is irrelevant right now, because you do not get extra points or outs for style.

  36. m February 16th, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    And by “sad” I meant for Damon, not the fact that it’ll go back to business as usual between the Yankees and Boras.

    ======================================================

    Chad, forgot to tell you to have a good “first day of spring training”. It’s like watching one of my own go off to kindergarten. Sniff, sniff.

  37. EdWhitson February 16th, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    So if Detroit was going to do Boras a favor and overpay for Damon (2 years for $14m), now Boras is going to ask them to do an even bigger favor and pay Bobby A. money ($9m per).

    If Detroit pays $9m per, they hurt themselves.
    If Boras gets less than $9m per, he looks silly.

  38. lets go yankees February 16th, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    SJ44
    February 16th, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    So this ends the belief the Yankees didn’t make two offers to Damon and didn’t want him back.

    —————————

    But SJ this does not end Bret the Hitman’s objection that they were not “official” offers because Cash never said he put them in writing!

  39. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    Bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes

    I did that in the interests of brevity, but if that’s what you want, fine:

    “Wait a minute – you an others have provided the “semantics”? You’re using a hyperbole to describe this guy’s level of defense, and I am challenging it by telling you, with specific detail, why he doesn’t qualify as “excellent.”

    In fact, I have yet to see anyone in here, who waxes poetic about Gardner’s defensive abilities, respond to any of the specific criticisms of his outfield play (turning the wrong way, sticking his glove out, etc.).”

    I’m not getting into the semantics because I wasn’t a part of the discussion and I think it’s meaningless, but from my perspective, Gardner proved me wrong last season.

    I didn’t think that much of his defense early on, and I thought Melky was better, despite having only slightly above average speed. But over the course of the season, I saw Gardner improve. He gets to balls hit in front of him because of both his speed and the jump he gets on balls. As the season wore on, I saw him improve going back on balls as well, and on balls hit in the gap.

    Is he a work in progress? Of course, not too many players that have as little ML experience as he does, aren’t, but the tool are there and the learning curve has flattened.

    I don’t think he will ever be BJ Upton, but I laugh when I read about how good Ellsbury is, because I think Gardner is much better.

  40. Bronx Jeers February 16th, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    “Of course he is being sarcastic about the Abreu money because Johnny is getting close to Abreu money.”

    Au contraire! Johnny will be “offered” Abreu money. But he’ll of course turn it down so he can go back on the market next winter. :wink:

  41. cameron February 16th, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    A player that wants to play for the Yankees is a good thing, and will sign a fair offering. A player that’s here for money will be gone, when the gravy train stops.

  42. Bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes February 16th, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    You’re assuming he always compensated for a bad route with a “spectacular” catch.

    How about the ones he played into doubles that should have been singles or even caught?

    Are you being specious or are you for real? I’m asking in earnest.

  43. m February 16th, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    lets go yankees,

    You’ve made some fine points this am. The best one may have been about style points. I think the Yankees will address these kind of issues as they see fit. The teaching process doesn’t end just because you hit the majors.

    Where’s the breakdown of Swisher as an outfielder? Or do we overlook little things because he’s a good OBP/power kind of player?

    The point of the exercise is to evaluate the best options amongst the feasible choices, i.e. the ones we have signed. Or as I prefer to call it, the “Love the One You’re With” methodology. ;)

  44. E-gawa February 16th, 2010 at 1:11 pm

    Wait. You mean Damon hasn’t signed with the Tigers yet? I read an article a week or so ago that said he liked their hockey team and that would make him a great fit for the Tigers.

    No joke.

    I’m sorry it’s at the expense of Damon but it’s good for the game if Boras has egg on his face.

    I just never understood the logic of why the Tigers would get him. They had a younger outfielder with a huge upside and still at a low cost. Why would they trade him and then purchase an aging outfielder, who’s on a decline, and who’s double the cost?

    Maybe Boras thinks all detroit companies are like the car companies?

  45. Doreen - Ain't it Just "Grand"? February 16th, 2010 at 1:11 pm

    I see a major switch in mind-set here.

    The Yankees are an elite team. They are perennial contenders whose owners always go the extra mile to make push at securing a playoff spot.

    They should not have to beg players to come to them. They should never have to bid against themselves. I cannot remember a time when they did not make a fair market offer to a player.

    This also reminds me of something I’ve been thinking, and it also goes to a change of mindset, in a way. After the Yankees won 4 out of 5 WS, players that came here would say things to the effect of “I came here to get my ring.” As if it was a given. Just join in the fun, collect a salary, and get the ring. Never did I hear any of them say they were coming to HELP EARN another ring.

    In a way, the lack of WS appearances in the last few years has helped to weed out those guys. The selfish ones. At least as I see it.

  46. youngtimer February 16th, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    Is it possible to be in love with a GM? I dig Cashman. He’s wily, perceptive, he knows baseball, and lord can that man shop. One of the best GM’s the Yankees have ever had!

  47. Doreen - Ain't it Just "Grand"? February 16th, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    The other thing to remember here, is it’s not about Boras, in the end. It is about the particular player he is representing. If the Yankees want a player represented by Boras, they will deal with Boras and they will do so professionally and vice versa.

  48. kd February 16th, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    sam,

    great work. those quotes from cashman must have other gm’s shaking in their boots. an iron will and $200 million to spend? a great time to be a yankees fan

  49. Bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes February 16th, 2010 at 1:17 pm

    I didn’t think that much of his defense early on, and I thought Melky was better, despite having only slightly above average speed. But over the course of the season, I saw Gardner improve. He gets to balls hit in front of him because of both his speed and the jump he gets on balls. As the season wore on, I saw him improve going back on balls as well, and on balls hit in the gap.
    Is he a work in progress? Of course, not too many players that have as little ML experience as he does, aren’t, but the tool are there and the learning curve has flattened.
    I don’t think he will ever be BJ Upton, but I laugh when I read about how good Ellsbury is, because I think Gardner is much better.
    ====

    First of all, thank you for restoring the original post.

    I have already agreed that improvement is possible – how could it not be? – and I agree he will never be BJ Upton.

    But here’s the crux, Rich. If you came in here and said BJ Upton is elite-bound as a CF – despite his flaws, which he has – you would not get an argument from me because the position, IMO, is highly reasonable.

    Calling Gardner an elite CF is giddy. Nor would I call him an “excellent” defender. He has plus-plus speed, which he has used at times, to pull in the ball in impressive fashion (see Philly Game 5).

    I can’t agree that his routes steadily improved, either. He made some great catches, and all too often, he made high adventure out of what should have been routine plays.

    He is definitely a work in progress.

  50. Damon enjoy 27....think 28 February 16th, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    What young players will Boras steer towards the Tigers, if they do him this huge favor of saving face?

  51. IrishCarBomb February 16th, 2010 at 1:21 pm

    Do people really think Damon isn’t just a mercenary??

    He has always followed the $$, he was a beloved figure in Boston and went to the “Evil Empire” just to get a few more million.

    His awful defense and streaky hitting won’t be missed as much as most fans think.

  52. blake February 16th, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    Did that quote mean they offered 2/13 like a couple weeks ago or was that refeering to their original offer?

  53. m February 16th, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    This isn’t the first time hyperbole has creeped its way onto a blog or into a player’s reputation.

    These kind of things seem to sort themselves out. But for now, can we at least call Gardner a good defender?

  54. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    Bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes

    “First of all, thank you for restoring the original post.

    I have already agreed that improvement is possible – how could it not be? – and I agree he will never be BJ Upton.

    But here’s the crux, Rich. If you came in here and said BJ Upton is elite-bound as a CF – despite his flaws, which he has – you would not get an argument from me because the position, IMO, is highly reasonable.

    Calling Gardner an elite CF is giddy. Nor would I call him an “excellent” defender. He has plus-plus speed, which he has used at times, to pull in the ball in impressive fashion (see Philly Game 5).

    I can’t agree that his routes steadily improved, either. He made some great catches, and all too often, he made high adventure out of what should have been routine plays.

    He is definitely a work in progress.”

    I’m not calling Gardner an elite CF. I’m merely suggesting that: 1) I think he can be a top tier CF; and 2) that I think he may be better than Granderson, at least the Granderson that I watched in the last couple of months of 2009.

    There is also another issue. If Gardner plays LF, his offense may be compared to a league average LF rather than a league average CF, which could put more pressure on him.

    But if they want to put Gardner in LF and Grandeson in CF, I’m fine with that because I would rather find out whether or not Gardner has a chance to be a starting ML OF than find out if Winn or Thames have anything left.

  55. champ809 February 16th, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    repost

    The innings splits argument regarding Joba is flawed due to the fact that his last 30 innings or so came during the inane abbreviated starts period which skews all the #’s negatively.

    The Yanks I think in this case would be bestserved with Joba as the 5th starter and Hughes assuming the role that Aceves had last year as the 6th starter/long man where he may be asked to go 3-4 innings depending on the situation and his availability.

    Ace can move back to the 7th inning with DRob and D Marte handling the 8th depending on matchups!

    for ex. Andy’s gone 5 innings and is holding a 5-1 lead. Phil could take over in the 6th and maybe pitch the last 3 innings. In a role like that you’d be able to get him 100-120 innings and he’d be stretched out for 80-90 pitches and the hidden benefit of that would be allowing you to save some wear and tear on the arms of CC, AJ, and Pettite particularly the 1st 6-8 weeks of the season.
    Having to go at least 1 time through the lineup affords Phil the chance to use his entire arsenal of pitches including the change.

  56. m February 16th, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    It must be nice knowing the GM has your back…

    “Once he gets healthy, it will take care of itself,” Epstein said. “If he’s really impressive and impressive to other clubs, maybe something can be worked out.”

    (Epstein commenting on Lowell via mlbtr)

  57. Frank February 16th, 2010 at 1:31 pm

    “Do people really think Damon isn’t just a mercenary??”

    Free agency kind of lends itself to that, no? Was Sabathia a mercenary?

    “He has always followed the $$, he was a beloved figure in Boston and went to the “Evil Empire” just to get a few more million.”

    It was 30% more. Would you stay put in your job, when you can have the exact same job elsewhere, only with 30% more income?

    Me neither.

  58. pat February 16th, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    “I’m sorry it’s at the expense of Damon but it’s good for the game if Boras has egg on his face.”

    Why? How does whether a player or an owner has an extra $5M in his pocket really matter to “the game”?

  59. SJ44 February 16th, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    Joba’s entire career, going back to his days at Nebraska has shown his effectiveness waning as his innings piled up.

    Its not just last year. That’s the issue Joba has to overcome to become a starting pitcher at the major league level.

    Using Hughes as a long man wastes his talents. If he isn’t going to be a starter, you use him in innings that determine the outcome of games. That is, as a setup man to Rivera.

    Its not just about using him to get innings in. This is not Kansas City or Florida. This is about winnings games and winning World Series.

    In his role last year, Phil Hughes helped the Yankees win. If he can’t start this year, then its best he goes back to a role that helps the team win games.

  60. Wave Your Hat February 16th, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    “In fact, I have yet to see anyone in here, who waxes poetic about Gardner’s defensive abilities, respond to any of the specific criticisms of his outfield play (turning the wrong way, sticking his glove out, etc.).

    All that is offered is the chirping about UZR and UZR/150. Even the creator of this dubious metric admits at least 3 years are needed for it to be relevant.”

    No one has been chirping about UZR today that I am aware of, although now that you mention it his numbers even on limited IPs do make you think.

    Gardner is an excellent defender, because his speed lets him outrun his mistakes. And as he gets more playing time, he will make fewer mistakes. His arm could be stronger, but that isn’t nearly as important as turning doubles into outs.

    That said, I’m not pushing him for CF or LF. I think ST will give the Yanks plenty of opportunities to judge CG and BG side by side.

    However,

  61. Erin February 16th, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    m
    February 16th, 2010 at 1:29 pm
    It must be nice knowing the GM has your back…

    “Once he gets healthy, it will take care of itself,” Epstein said. “If he’s really impressive and impressive to other clubs, maybe something can be worked out.”

    (Epstein commenting on Lowell via mlbtr)

    **************

    LOL. Doesn’t really surprise me though. ;)

  62. SJ44 February 16th, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    Damon is no more a mercenary than any other player looking to get the most money he can get. Nothing wrong with that.

    Derek Jeter isn’t going to sign for 50% less than his value just to stay in NY.

    The reality of it is, you try and make deals. Some work, some don’t but, its never personal.

    The Yankees will deal with other Scott Boras clients in the future. You just move on. Its all you can do.

  63. Frank February 16th, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    “The innings splits argument regarding Joba is flawed due to the fact that his last 30 innings or so came during the inane abbreviated starts period which skews all the #’s negatively.”

    Wouldn’t the numbers be skewed either way? If he allowed 5 earned runs over those 30 innings, the numbers would have been skewed positively. They were skewed negatively because he sucked.

  64. Pat M. February 16th, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    Until Brett Garrdner proves otherwise, he’s a 4th outfielder…Curtis Granderson is an All-Star CF, besides I cannot see Giradi going to a rotation system in CF…..As SJ pointed out, that’s why Cashman signed Winn and to a lesser degree Thames…..You rotate in LF, and or RF, just not in Centerfield…..Strong up the middle is and has been a Cardinal rule in baseball for a very long time……

  65. Bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes February 16th, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    There is also another issue. If Gardner plays LF, his offense may be compared to a league average LF rather than a league average CF, which could put more pressure on him.

    But if they want to put Gardner in LF and Grandeson in CF, I’m fine with that because I would rather find out whether or not Gardner has a chance to be a starting ML OF than find out if Winn or Thames have anything left.
    =====

    I think, with the Yankees’ unconventional composition, we could abide a COF without a lot of power.

    Getting power from 2B and catcher – not to mention a fair amount from our SS, means we can live with little power in a COF spot. Not to mention, Granderson packing 30HR as a CF.

    I’d not worry about the power. I would, however, worry about no hitting at all from the nine spot. If we have a cipher there, we effectively no longer enjoy lineup circularity.

    Whoever hits in the nine spot has to reasonably get on base.

  66. GreenBeret7 February 16th, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    The advantage that Gardner has over most oth outfielders is his speed. However, that speed is limited to left and right. He loses that advntage in going back, because, frankly, he’s not very good at it. You can’t play him shallow to cut of loopers to center field because he’s too indecisive on whether to come in or go back, how fast he should come in.

    In left field, that speed is put to better use, because he doesn’t have that far to go back. If it’s hit to the line or in the gap, he’s able to outrun it. No way of knowing whether gardner will ever to effectively track a fly, but, I’d prefer he learns it in left field. Granderson doesn’t have a great arm, either, but, it’s stronger and more accurate than Gardner’s. Not sure who brought it up, but, the idea that having the weaker bat in center rather than left because of it’s psychological affect on the team is beyond stupid.

    NYY outfielders have an advantage over a lot of other teams…they have three infielders that can range far into the outfield on short flies…Jeter, Cano and Teixeira. Even Rodriguez became more settled..at ease on pop flies. There was no indecision…no staggering under them.

  67. Frank February 16th, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    “The reality of it is, you try and make deals. Some work, some don’t but, its never personal.”

    Generally agree, though Cashman seems to be taking this particular one personally. Very unusual for him to discuss matters like these, and he seems only too happy to in this case.

  68. mg February 16th, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    Gardner – 50 Stolen Bases (Over/Under?)

  69. Bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes February 16th, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    Gardner is an excellent defender, because his speed lets him outrun his mistakes. And as he gets more playing time, he will make fewer mistakes. His arm could be stronger, but that isn’t nearly as important as turning doubles into outs.
    =====

    Not often enough, judging by 2009. Getting a “good” jump is instinctive. It’s as much a part of a player’s skillset as speed. Some improvement, is possible here, however.

    I agree about the arm, but here’s a player who can turn doubles into outs and outs into doubles. There’s the rub.

  70. SJ44 February 16th, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    They weren’t too worried about power in LF for years when guys like Curtis, Ledee, Raines and Knoblauch manned it.

    Its all about putting guys in the best positions to win games.

    The beauty of ST is, they have 6 weeks to tinker with things and see how it all shakes out.

    If Gardner is best suited to play LF, that’s where he will end up. Same goes for CF.

    Either way, he is a starter unless he shows he can’t start.

    Where he ends up is up to him.

  71. blake February 16th, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    Under 50 steals for sure.

  72. Wave Your Hat February 16th, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    Pat M-

    CG has to prove he can hit lefties or eventually there will be rotation, be it in CF or LF.

    Gardner’s not going to be the fourth OF, at least to start the season. He may end up there but I sure hope not because his ceiling at this point is higher than Winn’s.

    If the Yanks think BG can play a better CF than CG, then that’s where BG will play, unless CG says I’m the 1,000 pound gorilla and can play where I want. By all accounts, CG is not that kind of guy.

  73. Wave Your Hat February 16th, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    “I agree about the arm, but here’s a player who can turn doubles into outs and outs into doubles. There’s the rub.”

    It would be a rub if accurate, but as it’s not accurate it’s not a rub.

  74. E-gawa February 16th, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    pat
    February 16th, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    Why? How does whether a player or an owner has an extra $5M in his pocket really matter to “the game”?

    ————————————-

    Because those extra $5M add up and they use it as a starting point to try and sell the player… like they’re doing now with the Abreu contract. Rarely ever do you see the $$ go down.

  75. champ809 February 16th, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    As for the Grandy/Gardy CF/LF debate I think the most interesting point that most seem to be missing is that the 1st thing Girardi asked Granderson when he introduced himself to him as his manager is would he have a problem shifting to LF.
    That combined with Leyland’s recommendation to Girardi that Grandy in his opinion wuould be better played in LF where his arm could be more of a weapon and the fact that the Tigers I believe internally began thinking that Grandy may need to be moved to LF leads me to believe that the Yanks i.e. Girardi is seriously leaning towards Grandy in LF and Gardy in CF. If Grady shows he’s an everyday CF’er with “elite” range and Grandy likewise in LF Girardi will be credited as “Maverick” for making that call similar to last yr when he flipped Jeet and Johnny although Jeter’s always been a better leadoff hitter than Damon as evidenced by his career .350avg batting in the leadoff spot prior to last season.

  76. Max February 16th, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    Gardner is a 4th OF. Put him out there everyday, he will be exposed and be a blackhole.

    The guy can’t hit, period. He also has no arm and can’t track flyballs with consistency.

    Speed does not make one a good player.

  77. Erica - always OPPC February 16th, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    mg
    February 16th, 2010 at 1:40 pm
    Gardner – 50 Stolen Bases (Over/Under?)

    ***************

    I predicted that to a friend last year and it bit me.

    Actually, GGBG’s broken thumb bit me

  78. blake February 16th, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    I don’t see the yanks platooning Granderson at all next year. I think they will give him at least a full year to improve against them and who would they play in his place? Winn doesn’t hit lefties well. Are they gonna play Thames and Hoffman against lefties? I think not.

  79. SJ44 February 16th, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    Frank,

    Agreed. I think he is more vocal about this because some of the stuff Scott has been saying is false. No other way to say it.

    They made two offers to Johnny. Both, at least as of today, are the highest offers he has gotten from anybody.

    They spent well into January trying to do a deal with him. Even got Hal Steinbrenner involved while he was on his honeymoon. You don’t do that unless you want to sign the player. They just weren’t going to bid against themselves to sign him. That’s not spin, that’s fact. Although, some have a hard time dealing with facts from time to time.

    I think Cash is upset because the facts in this negotiation are getting swept away because of the spin. I believe he just wants the facts out there so folks realize exactly what took place.

    The Yankees wanted Johnny Damon back. They did everything they could to make it happen. In the end, Johnny and Scott felt it was better to take a chance in the marketplace instead of taking what they felt were inferior offers from the Yankees.

    Time will tell if they made the right move.

    All I know is, its February 16 and Johnny isn’t yet employed.

    I have a hard time buying that’s a good thing, regardless of the spin coming from Scott.

  80. Bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes February 16th, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    Wave,

    I’m not going to debate something that can be witnessed and verified by going to the games live.

  81. U-Turn February 16th, 2010 at 1:50 pm

    Wave,

    Exactly. It is interesting to see how many people think it is a foregone conclusion that Granderson is going to hit against lefties when (outside of one yr), he hasn’t demonstrated that ability in the big leagues.

    All the RH OFs we have brought in (Winn, Thames, Hoffmann) are just as much insurance if Granderson continues his career of futility against lefties, as it is insurance if Gardner can’t hack it every day.

  82. m February 16th, 2010 at 1:51 pm

    champ,

    If I could add to that (without sourcing), that I read the Yankees didn’t like some of the routes CG took last season as a Tiger when they were scouting him.

    It could have been on mlb.com, I’ll try to find it later.

  83. champ809 February 16th, 2010 at 1:51 pm

    If he gets 500PAs I’ll take the over.

    I’ll say 55-60 steals if Gardner can start 130 games.

    The point is the Gardy has to know that his standout tool is his speed and basestealing game and as such will emphasize this every chance he gets in an effort to impress not on Gen Joe and Ca$hman but also other GM’s around the league.

    His future in pinstripes is probably not going to be long but he can certainly continue to open eyes around the league.

  84. Wave Your Hat February 16th, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    “They did everything they could to make it happen.”

    They didn’t do everything they could. They did what they wanted to do and no more.

    Not that there’s necessarily anything wrong with that.

  85. SJ44 February 16th, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    I don’t think its likely Granderson sits against lefties.

    It may end up like it did with Paul O’Neill. O’Neill sat against certain lefties that were especially poor matchups for him. Other than that, he played against lefties.

    I believe the same thing will go on with Granderson.

    They didn’t bring him in here to be a platoon player.

  86. Rick February 16th, 2010 at 1:53 pm

    Damon showed his true colors as he did with 2 previous teams. It’s about the money. He was blowing smoke with a dose of gibberish last August when he professed his love for the Yankees.
    It’s about the money for most players but in Damon’s case it glares. Props to Cashman for seeing through it and maintaining his ability for always having a Plan B.
    Playing poker with Cashman is not an easy hill to climb.

  87. Wave Your Hat February 16th, 2010 at 1:53 pm

    “I’m not going to debate something that can be witnessed and verified by going to the games live.”

    Which I do all the time. What’s your point?

  88. Frank February 16th, 2010 at 1:53 pm

    “Winn doesn’t hit lefties well.”

    Hits ‘em better than Granderson. Winn is a .280 career hitter against LHP’s. He struggled last year, but it was an outlier based on his career numbers.

    Of course, it may well be that Winn is on the 18th fairway of his career and isn’t going to be much of a hitter anymore.

  89. SJ44 February 16th, 2010 at 1:53 pm

    That’s doing everything they could.

    They weren’t going to overpay him.

    They made him the best offer of anybody in the marketplace.

    How is that not doing everything you can to make a deal happen?

    The guy just wouldn’t take it. That’s the way it goes.

  90. 66 stripes February 16th, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    Thames will end up taking the LF job full-time over Gardner. Gardner can’t hit— can’t waste a starting spot on a defensive replacement.

  91. blake February 16th, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    Why exactly would the Yankees sit their best defensive outfielder in favor of Thames,Winn, or Hoffman. Win doesn’t hit lefties either, Thames is terrible defensively, and we don’t have a clue what Hoffman can do or even if he will be on the team. I don’t see it happening, at least not next year.

  92. Dave D. February 16th, 2010 at 1:58 pm

    “Of course, it may well be that Winn is on the 18th fairway of his career and isn’t going to be much of a hitter anymore.”

    Yep. Winn is a 36, after all. His poor year may not have been an aberration.

  93. m1kew February 16th, 2010 at 1:58 pm

    From Fox Sports:

    http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....uzz-012010

    Tigers, Damon exchange proposals but no deal is imminent — 8:08 p.m.

    There is now only a “very small” difference of opinion between the Tigers and Johnny Damon as to what the outfielder’s salary should be, one major league source said Monday.

    The sides have exchanged proposals within the last several days, but the source said a deal is not yet imminent.

    A one-year, $7 million deal is possible, as is a two-year contract worth $14 million. But the source downplayed the chances of a one-year deal with a player option for 2011 — similar to the contract that Adrian Beltre, another Scott Boras client, signed with the Red Sox.

    Some people in the industry have wondered why the Tigers offered Damon a two-year contract last week, at a time when it’s questionable that any other team is interested in signing the 36-year-old to a deal of that length.

    Similarly, many believe it would be foolish for Damon to turn down a two-year deal, because it could be difficult for him to replicate his Yankee Stadium success of 2009 while playing in Detroit’s more spacious Comerica Park.

    The Braves haven’t intensified their pursuit of Damon in the last week, a separate source said, leaving the White Sox as perhaps the strongest challenger to Detroit.

  94. Wave Your Hat February 16th, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    “How is that not doing everything you can to make a deal happen?”

    They could have offered him more $$, even if they thought he wouldn’t get it elsewhere. They also could have waited and played out the game with Boras. They chose not to do either because they thought it was best not to. But they could have.

  95. Matt February 16th, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    “Why exactly would the Yankees sit their best defensive outfielder in favor of Thames,Winn, or Hoffman. Win doesn’t hit lefties either, Thames is terrible defensively, and we don’t have a clue what Hoffman can do or even if he will be on the team. I don’t see it happening, at least not next year.”

    Winn and Thames have proven they can hit ML pitching with consistency. Gardner has yet to prove that.

    As others have said… if the Yankees were that confident in Gardner, they wouldn’t have made a last ditch effort to sign Damon, and bring in 3 outfielders to compete for playing time and roster spots.

  96. Bob February 16th, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    So ridiculous on Damon’s part turning down 2 yrs 13mill. I’m glad to hear that Cashman at least made a sincere effort to bring him back.

  97. blake February 16th, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    Frank, I just don’t see them sitting Granderson in favor of marginal players. Are they going to put winn and Thames out there against lefties? Winn would have to play CF. I just don’t see Granderson sitting much in 2010.

  98. m1kew February 16th, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    Here is an interesting thought re Damon and his legacy from Donnie Collins who replaced Chad at ScrantonTimes/Tribune:

    http://blogs.thetimes-tribune......#more-3549

    I posted a comment on the SWB Yankees Blog Twitter page last week, pointing out that Damon is going to at least challenge for 3,000 hits, and yet, he’s a guy that no team ever fought to keep around. This will be his 16th season, and he’ll presumably playing for his fifth different team. If Damon gets his 3,000th hit someday and goes into the Hall of Fame, what hat does he ultimately wear? What team will we ultimately associate with Johnny Damon? I’m not sure there are many borderline Hall of Famers who are pure, unadulterated journeymen, and Damon is certainly that at this point. I don’t blame the Red Sox or Yankees for that. I just think he priced himself out of this market. One thing’s for sure: Damon had a chance to be a Yankee, to be someone remembered for the rest of his life as a Yankee. And he turned it down over money that was never out there for him.

    Here’s a great quote from Cashman out of the Morelli story that, I think, says it all:

    “I hope he does not sign for something less than our offer. That means he should have been a Yankee and that’s not our fault.”

  99. blake February 16th, 2010 at 2:06 pm

    Matt, I wasn’t talking about Gardner, I was talking about Granderson.

  100. Frank February 16th, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    “Frank, I just don’t see them sitting Granderson in favor of marginal players”

    I don’t either. I think the Yankees are going to play him everyday with the recognition that his rather obvious flaw is offset by the number of things he does well.

  101. Pat M. February 16th, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    I just think about 90 % of the people here have never really seen Curtis Granderson play ball…..Yes he had an off year in some areas in 09…..That being said, Yankee fans are in for a real treat watching him play and then we’ll be hearing a different tune here at the LoHud…..He’s an outstanding ballplayer…..

  102. 66 stripes February 16th, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    I doubt Gardner even approaches the numbers Melky put up (13 HRs, 70 RBIs, 28 doubles).

    Gardner hit SIX doubles last year.

  103. SJ44 February 16th, 2010 at 2:08 pm

    Why would they offer him more money when they already offered him more money than anybody else? That makes no sense.

    They waited until Mid-January. That’s a month longer than they wanted to wait. They didn’t want to wait anymore because it was clear they weren’t going to get a deal done.

    When every proposal you make gets shot down, with the counter proposals no where close to reality, its time to move on.

    That’s doing all you can. Just because they didn’t cave in to Boras doesn’t mean they didn’t do everything they could to get a deal done.

  104. Wave Your Hat February 16th, 2010 at 2:09 pm

    blake-

    If Granderson has a .495 OPS against lefties like he did last year, eventually he will sit against lefties. If he can get to a .750 OPS against lefties (and I hope he does), he won’t sit.

    I don’t know where the dividing line is between .495 and .750 is in terms of sitting against lefties, but it is somewhere and CG needs to be north of it.

  105. Brian February 16th, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    You tell ‘em Cash!

  106. tampayank February 16th, 2010 at 2:12 pm

    Melky>Gardner
    Good luck in ATL MelkMan :(

  107. blake February 16th, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    Wave, the keyword you said was eventually. I don’t think that time will come anytime next year because they will want to give him a chance to improve and also because he’s their best defensive outfielder and they have no better options to replace him with.

  108. Y 27 February 16th, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    Thames was brought in for pinch hitting and an occasional start… not to supplant anyone in the starting lineup

    Late in the game, down a couple runs with a couple guys on… who do you want up, Gardner or Thames?

    And perhaps he might pinch hit for Granderson late in the game against tough lefties like Thorton, CJ Wilson, Okijima, etc.

    Thames has excellent numbers as a pinch hitter.

  109. Wave Your Hat February 16th, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    SJ44-

    Look, I’m not saying the Yanks made a mistake in their negotiations with Damon – I like Nick Johnson and the Yanks have a pretty good team.

    The Yanks didn’t really wait until mid-January with Damon. IMO, the ship sailed when Nick accepted his offer, and the Yanks didn’t mess around getting NJ on board.

    JD wasn’t ready to accept a 2/14 offer back in December. I suspect Cashman knew or suspected that at the time. And if there is any foundation to the Tiger rumors at all, $3MM plus $3MM deferred was never going to get it done.

    So the Yanks chose not to pursue Damon. But they had options, they could have let Nick go elsewhere and offered Damon Abreu money back in December. They decided not to.

    Which is fine by me (I think). But the Yanks did have options.

  110. Frank February 16th, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    “I don’t know where the dividing line is between .495 and .750 is in terms of sitting against lefties, but it is somewhere and CG needs to be north of it.”

    .650 IMO. That’s a little better than his career average. If he maintains a high .800′s against, he’d fall into a .830-.840 overall OPS which would be just fine.

  111. Erica - always OPPC February 16th, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    m1kew
    February 16th, 2010 at 2:05 pm
    Here is an interesting thought re Damon and his legacy from Donnie Collins who replaced Chad at ScrantonTimes/Tribune:

    http://blogs.thetimes-tribune……#more-3549

    I posted a comment on the SWB Yankees Blog Twitter page last week, pointing out that Damon is going to at least challenge for 3,000 hits, and yet, he’s a guy that no team ever fought to keep around. This will be his 16th season, and he’ll presumably playing for his fifth different team. If Damon gets his 3,000th hit someday and goes into the Hall of Fame, what hat does he ultimately wear? What team will we ultimately associate with Johnny Damon? I’m not sure there are many borderline Hall of Famers who are pure, unadulterated journeymen, and Damon is certainly that at this point. I don’t blame the Red Sox or Yankees for that. I just think he priced himself out of this market. One thing’s for sure: Damon had a chance to be a Yankee, to be someone remembered for the rest of his life as a Yankee. And he turned it down over money that was never out there for him.

    ****************

    He’ll be playing for his 5th team. Okay, lets examine that

    He came up through KC. How many quality players play for KC their entire careers in this era of baseball??? (Crickets chirping). KC traded him to Oakland in the year prior to hitting free agency

    Oakland- this was a rental trade. Signing Damon LT would not fit in with the Moneyball attitude

    Boston- Okay, he left there willingly but how much can you blame him. Boston is a terrible place

    Yankees- sniff sniff. I don’t need to rehash this more

    Mystery team #5

    Does this really make his a journeyman?? He has played for 14 seasons and so far 4 teams. Isn’t that very average??

  112. LLIME February 16th, 2010 at 2:19 pm

    Why doesn’t Granderson just bunt for a base hit every time against a lefty?

  113. crawdaddy February 16th, 2010 at 2:22 pm

    “So the Yanks chose not to pursue Damon. But they had options, they could have let Nick go elsewhere and offered Damon Abreu money back in December. They decided not to.”

    Of course they had options, but making the above move would’ve been the wrong move.

  114. Frank February 16th, 2010 at 2:28 pm

    “Boston- Okay, he left there willingly but how much can you blame him. Boston is a terrible place”

    Which he loved. He left because the Yankees offered 30% more than Boston.

    Probably not fair to say Boston didn’t fight to keep him. At the time the Yankees made their offer, no team other than Boston had made one. Boston’s was 4/$40M. Cash offered 4/$52M but gave him a very short window to take it or leave it. Damon did call the Red Sox, but they either didn’t believe him or could/would not react within short window Cashman left open, so Damon wisely jumped on the Yankees offer. Don’t know whether Boston would have gotten into a bidding war or not, but they were caught with their pants down Damon was gone before they could zip up.

  115. SJ44 February 16th, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    Cashman confirmed he was still negotiating with Boras in January and told him when making the offer he was not going to take it to Hal unless they agreed to it.

    Brian Cashman has no reason to have a fake negotiation with Damon. If the door was actually “closed”, they wouldn’t have still been talking.

    How does he know the offer would be turned down? As long as there is still communication, you always think you can reach a metting of the minds.

    If Boras said “yes” to the one year offer, Cash would have been able to sell Hal on it.

    The fact all of this took place, confirmed by Cashman not only in his talk at UNH but in his converation with Sam, makes it clear the two sides were still talking into January.

    Nick Johnson’s signing closed the door on the 2 year offer. It didn’t close any doors on a one year offer. That’s why the two sides were still talking.

  116. Frank February 16th, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    If he maintains a high .800’s against RIGHTIES….

  117. ko February 16th, 2010 at 2:30 pm

    Seeing as 2010 looks like its going to be a mess for the Yankees, let’s look forward to 2011. First of all, let’s hope that we have a new GM – one that knows what he’s doing. Second, this person is going to be really busy. He’ll be needing to negotiate and re-sign Jeter, Pettitte and Rivera – plus Vazquez. Then, because the grand starting experiment won’t work this year, he’ll need to sign a starter – let’s hope its Cliff Lee (or Boston will grab him). Next we’ll need a left fielder / center fielder because the Gardner / Winn fiasco will long have played itself out. Carl Crawford must be signed to put the outfield in order. I’m going to go out on a limb here – the new GM will put Montero in right and be forced to immediately insert him fifth in the order as the Granderson batting fifth debacle will also have played out long ago. We’ll also need to be signing a lefty reliever – Jeremy Affeldt projects to be on the market. Lots to do after this season – hopefully there will be someone capable of handling it all in place.

  118. GreenBeret7 February 16th, 2010 at 2:30 pm

    Ouch. A hiker fell 1500 feet into Mt. St. Helen’s. As of last night, he was still alive.

  119. Erica - always OPPC February 16th, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    Frank
    February 16th, 2010 at 2:28 pm
    “Boston- Okay, he left there willingly but how much can you blame him. Boston is a terrible place”

    Which he loved. He left because the Yankees offered 30% more than Boston.

    Probably not fair to say Boston didn’t fight to keep him. At the time the Yankees made their offer, no team other than Boston had made one. Boston’s was 4/$40M. Cash offered 4/$52M but gave him a very short window to take it or leave it. Damon did call the Red Sox, but they either didn’t believe him or could/would not react within short window Cashman left open, so Damon wisely jumped on the Yankees offer. Don’t know whether Boston would have gotten into a bidding war or not, but they were caught with their pants down Damon was gone before they could zip up.

    *****************

    Did Damon really love Boston or did the people of Boston love him? And do you really expect him to ignore the fact that a team he “loved” so much and “loved” him was offering him 30% less than the Yankees? At that point he was clearly feeling more loved by the Yankees.

    And if Boston was really fighting to keep him, they would have bumped up the offer. Anyone with half a brain knew the Yankees were looking for a centerfielder and the Yankees and Damon were clearly a match

  120. SJ44 February 16th, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    So, the 2010 is already over? That’s a new LoHud record.

    We have a poster who has already declared the season “over” before pitchers and catchers report.

    There is a better chance you learn something about baseball than there is a new GM in place for the Yankees in 2011.

    There is a 0% chance Cashman loses his job.

  121. champ809 February 16th, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    SJ

    I totally disagree with you about serving the short term goal with Hughes as opposed to the longer term and more important goal which is to develop Hughes and Joba as starting pitchers and future starters.

    the Yanks are loaded with guys that be effective throwing 20 pitches in the 8th inning including D Rob, Melancon and others. the goal with Phil if he does go to the pen should be to use him in a way that continues his development towards the long term goal of him being a starter for your organization for years to come.

    The fact that this is NY and not Kansas City or Florida as you say doesn’t change he fact that the team has long term goals regarding these players.

    That is the reason that the widespread belief in the player development community is that if Hughes were to return to an 8th inning role that would be a waste of his talents as well as retard his development.

    My point is not to use him as a long man in bloew out games or something like that but to use him in a way that furthers his development. I have to believe those 10 games that Ace won out of the pen last year were important to the success of the team no?

  122. Wave Your Hat February 16th, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    SJ44-

    My point was that the Yanks had options and hadn’t done “everything they could”. I think I made that point.

    I never said there were “fake” negotiations – if someone is saying that it isn’t me – just that Cashman knew or suspected JD wasn’t ready to accept his offer, either in December or January.

    The fact that there were continuing talks only shows that neither side had said “no and don’t bother calling back” yet. It doesn’t show those talks were likely to be ultimately successful.

  123. Frank February 16th, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    “Did Damon really love Boston or did the people of Boston love him? And do you really expect him to ignore the fact that a team he “loved” so much and “loved” him was offering him 30% less than the Yankees?”

    Lot of questions there. Yes, Yes and no.

    “And if Boston was really fighting to keep him, they would have bumped up the offer. Anyone with half a brain knew the Yankees were looking for a centerfielder and the Yankees and Damon were clearly a match”

    Yeah, that’s sort of what I meant when I said they were caught with their pants down. It was a good move by the Yankees. They knew they had to blow Boston’s offer away, which they did, and they wisely gave him a short window to take it or leave it. If they didn’t do the first, they never get him. More importantly, by doing the 2nd, they really took Boston out of the fight.

  124. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day February 16th, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    I don’t get what Cashman did wrong here and I really don’t get why he should have overpaid just for the priviledge of having Damon back. When the Yankees hold the line, they are knocked; when the Sox do it, they are praised. Yankee fans should be very happy with their GM and not just because he brought us another WS. He’s basically saying that the Yankees aren’t going to allow Boras, etc…..to use them as doormats. Cash is very well respected and liked around the game so I suspect that most will believe his version of events. I’m glad he’s being open about this; there is no reason he should let Boras get away with outright lies.

  125. Erin February 16th, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    ko
    February 16th, 2010 at 2:30 pm
    Seeing as 2010 looks like its going to be a mess for the Yankees, let’s look forward to 2011. First of all, let’s hope that we have a new GM – one that knows what he’s doing. Second, this person is going to be really busy. He’ll be needing to negotiate and re-sign Jeter, Pettitte and Rivera – plus Vazquez. Then, because the grand starting experiment won’t work this year, he’ll need to sign a starter – let’s hope its Cliff Lee (or Boston will grab him). Next we’ll need a left fielder / center fielder because the Gardner / Winn fiasco will long have played itself out. Carl Crawford must be signed to put the outfield in order. I’m going to go out on a limb here – the new GM will put Montero in right and be forced to immediately insert him fifth in the order as the Granderson batting fifth debacle will also have played out long ago. We’ll also need to be signing a lefty reliever – Jeremy Affeldt projects to be on the market. Lots to do after this season – hopefully there will be someone capable of handling it all in place.

    **************************
    This is a joke, right??? If not, wow and :roll:

  126. Patrick February 16th, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    Yeah the Yankees could have done more to sign Johnny Damon. They also could have given $40 million a year to Rick Ankiel.

  127. crawdaddy February 16th, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    “My point was that the Yanks had options and hadn’t done “everything they could”. I think I made that point.”

    You didn’t make that point because other than overpaying Damon more than he’s worth, I think the Yankees done everything possible. Just because Abreu got the Angels to give him his two year deal, it doesn’t mean the Yankees have to follow suit to give Damon such a deal at 19-20M, especially considering the Yankees need for Damon is less than the Angels need for Abreu.

  128. champ809 February 16th, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    The fact that damon hasn’t signed either of those Detroit “offers” just shows how truly clueless he is. I think it’s easy to blame Boras because Boras is the easy target, the agent we all love to hate. But this to me has been more about Damon and his warped perception of himself as a player.

    Boras scrambled around and got him a good offer with a good team and no body else is offering him jacks#!* and he has to think about it!!!! what is there to think about! If I were Dombrowski or Illitch he would have til 8pm tonight to have it signed and on my desk or I’d pull the offer.

  129. Bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes February 16th, 2010 at 2:44 pm

    Agree champ.

    Hughes filling a need and being a critical piece to our running off with the division was probably a great boon to his development.

    His filling that role really iced the cake for us, too, since we could rest people and really gear up in a relaxed way for the postseason.

    But his being a starter, is, after all, tied into the franchise winning multiple championships or at least being in contention for them.

    Making him the eighth inning guy in 2010 isn’t going to help advance his career as a starter. A whole season of that for him wastes a year of development and wastes a very good young arm that can help us in the near future where arms matter most – in the rotation.

  130. Phil the Thrill February 16th, 2010 at 2:44 pm

    Two things.

    On the contract before his current one, Cash extended Mo’s old contract in Spring training. So he’s done at least three extensions.

    Second, man does he sound like George M. Steinbrenner III when he talks about the Damon situation.

  131. Bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes February 16th, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    **************************
    This is a joke, right??? If not, wow .
    ====

    There’s some reason in the rant, but not enough for me to take the bait ;) .

  132. Erica - always OPPC February 16th, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    The room I am working in is so cold I am going to freeze!

    BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

  133. GreenBeret7 February 16th, 2010 at 2:49 pm

    Erin
    February 16th, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    This is a joke, right??? If not, wow and

    ————————————————————

    The only joke is the clown that wrote it, Erin.

  134. Bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes February 16th, 2010 at 2:50 pm

    Erica,

    Massage your ears (outer part, all around) and/or breath through your right nostril. If no one’s looking, you can rub your lower back (generates kidney yang and warms you up some).

    You sure it isn’t just your heart that’s grown cold ?;).

  135. Erica - always OPPC February 16th, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    Bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
    February 16th, 2010 at 2:50 pm
    Erica,

    Massage your ears (outer part, all around) and/or breath through your right nostril. If no one’s looking, you can rub your lower back (generates kidney yang and warms you up some).

    You sure it isn’t just your heart that’s grown cold ?;).

    *************

    That helped a little. And I really hope no one saw me do it cause I no doubt look ridiculous

    But its so cold in here I can’t focus. All I can think about is how cold I am

  136. Will February 16th, 2010 at 2:55 pm

    Excellent piece Sam…Boras is going to look pretty silly if he doesn’t get “Abreu money” for Damon when he could have been a Yankee for the next two years.

  137. GreenBeret7 February 16th, 2010 at 2:55 pm

    Erica – always OPPC
    February 16th, 2010 at 2:48 pm
    The room I am working in is so cold I am going to freeze!

    BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

    ————————————————————

    Think about Johnny Damon’s next appearance at YS, Erica. That should warm the cokkles of your heart.

    Can’t even get that word through the filters.

  138. Bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes February 16th, 2010 at 2:55 pm

    In that case, can’t you run out for some soup?

  139. SJ44 February 16th, 2010 at 2:55 pm

    Deciding not to overpay for Damon is not proof they didn’t do everything they could to sign him. It’s more like they correctly evaluated the marketplace and were comfortable with their position.

    The fact that offers were still being exchanged on one year proposals in January shows the Yankees were still engaged in discussions to bring him back.

    It was just going to be at their price. To date, still the highest price for his services he has received.

  140. Wave Your Hat February 16th, 2010 at 2:56 pm

    Patrick-

    Going to 2/18 or 2/19 with Damon back in December a la Abreu was within the realm of the conceivable and defendable. I’m perfectly happy with the course Cashman chose, but there were others.

    If heaven forbid Gardner doesn’t work out and CG hits lefties the way he did last year, I suspect there will be more than one poster on here thinking that Cashman should have chose a different approach with Damon.

    It’s a limited point, I’m willing to move on.

  141. champ809 February 16th, 2010 at 2:56 pm

    some of the posters on here are totally clueless.

    the last GM in the game on a hot seat is Ca$h.

    Ca$h is also,imo, doing away with this idea or perception in the player/agent community that because the Yanks have the most revenue/highest payroll the we have to overpay players to come play here. it’s preposterous! The Yanks are the pinnacle of the sport,play in the mecca of the sportsworld and are perennial contenders, everything is first class including the stadium and player’s amenities and playing for the Yanks catapults you into celebrity status. As Ca$h correctly pointed out you are part of something. Being a Yankee is like being “made”.

    He is correct in killing this notion that players should have to be bribed to play with us.

    The “legacy” contracts of Jeter and Mo are a separate entity and should be handled as such. But in the case of Girardi when his agent comes asking that Girardi should be the highest paid manager in the game I would quickly counter that in fact he’s no more deserving of being paid equal to Torre,LaRussa,Cox or even Scoiscia(argh!) because he doesn’t have that resume yet but he will be well compensated to represent the best team in pro sports.

  142. Erin February 16th, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    Erica – always OPPC
    February 16th, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    That helped a little. And I really hope no one saw me do it cause I no doubt look ridiculous

    But its so cold in here I can’t focus. All I can think about is how cold I am

    **********************
    Time for a coffee break!! That will warm you right up :)

  143. murphydog February 16th, 2010 at 2:59 pm

    I think SJ hit this a day or so ago, but Boras has been slandering Cash. On the one hand, Cash has a reputation in the business for negotiating in good faith. Boras can spin whatever he wants to spin to try to keep Damon’s value up, that’s his job. Still, Cash has a duty to the organization he works for to make sure his reputation is not tarnished as a fair dealer and thus his ability to do business on behalf of the Yankees is not compromised.

    I forget the actual governing scheme for MLB Agents, I believe MLBPA certifies them. IMO, Cash may have a basis for a formal complaint for what Boras has been saying on behalf of Damon. Obviously, the route Cash has currently adopted is something less than full combat, but it’s a shot across the Boras Bow. Cash is saying “I’ll kiss and tell if you are spreading lies.”

    On the other hand, while I understand what Cash did and why, did he offend some agents/players who believe that all negotiations are secret/confidential, especially if they don’t pan out? Or does every owner and agent in the business either hate or envy Scotty that much that they like to see him take the hit and don’t believe it can happen to them?

  144. Tripps78 February 16th, 2010 at 2:59 pm

    The Damon posts are becoming tiring. He’s not on the team anymore. The Yankees have plenty of very good outfielders to replace him. They are a team loaded with talent. The Damon departure does not hurt them in the talent department.

    Damon is an afterthought right now. It doesn’t matter where he lands.

  145. Pat M. February 16th, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    Champ, Very good post, especially the first paragraph

  146. Wave Your Hat February 16th, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    Tripps-

    We’re just killing time waiting for something to happen. There isn’t a subject we haven’t talked to death, but since we are Yankee fans we keep discussing them anyway.

    That’s the fun and the curse of being a fan.

  147. Patrick from CT February 16th, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    Unless Granderson is totally uneffected by switching back and forth between CF and LF, I don’t see Gardner in CF.

  148. Bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes February 16th, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    The guy was a Yankee five minutes ago, and has yet to sign anywhere.

    Why not wait until he at least signs somewhere before declaring a moratorium on the mention of his name?

  149. Frank February 16th, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    “Excellent piece Sam…Boras is going to look pretty silly if he doesn’t get “Abreu money” for Damon when he could have been a Yankee for the next two years”

    At the time Abreu signed that deal, I thought it was a fair comp for Damon. Two things though:

    1) Abreu’s was not a market deal in the truest sense. He locked in with the Angels before free agency and was almost certainly the better for it as it turend out.

    2) Abreu’s deal was not the standard by which Boras was operating initially. Boras was drawing Jeter comparisons and talking $13M per in a multi year deal. Doesn’t sound like the Abreu deal, which again was not a market deal, was envoked until after Johnson had already signed.

    I think if Boras went into this negotiation thinking along the lines of the Abreu deal, this probably would have gotten done.

  150. Erin February 16th, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    GreenBeret7
    February 16th, 2010 at 2:49 pm
    Erin
    February 16th, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    This is a joke, right??? If not, wow and

    ————————————————————

    The only joke is the clown that wrote it, Erin.

    *********************
    LOL You’re right.

    How are you today GB?

  151. Tripps78 February 16th, 2010 at 3:14 pm

    Wave Your Hat:
    I get it but talking about non-Yankees is for so long is annoying. Talking about who is the 5th starter, what’s Dave Robertson’s role, will the Yankees take a 2nd lefty, can Ramiro Pena make the team, who’s hitting 5th, and how will Cervelli do as back-up. Those are important issues about current players. I’ll love going back and forth on that all day.

    Talking about Johnny Damon screwing up his own deal, that’s not that important.

  152. champ809 February 16th, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    I’m kinda on the side that thinks the best defensive outfield alignment has Grandy in LF Gardy in CF and Swish in RF.
    I think having the guy who can cover more ground LFC-RFC improves your D in all three areas of the field. Meaning the fat that Gardner can cover more ground in right center theoretically improves Swish’s D in RF as he’d have less ground to cover there.
    That is made possible by having a Cf’er in Grandy who can cover more ground LF -left center which allows Gardy to shade slightly more to his right. Also Leyland was correct in that Grandy’s arm being better than Gardy’s makes it more of a weapon in LF as it seems that more plays at the plate are presented in the game with a runner attempting to score from second on a sigle to leftfield than center. Could be wrong but it just seems that way.

  153. Erica - always OPPC February 16th, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    Bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
    February 16th, 2010 at 2:55 pm
    In that case, can’t you run out for some soup?

    **********

    I went for coffee. Soup would require going outside on this cold, snowy day

  154. Jeter's Edge - New Guys, we need registered names and an edit button! February 16th, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    lol at KO declaring the season over already. I didn’t realize an aging, injury prone, over paid player was so important to a teams success.

  155. Frank February 16th, 2010 at 3:29 pm

    “I get it but talking about non-Yankees is for so long is annoying.”

    Road not taken is always a hot topic in sports talk/blogs. Johan Santana was NEVER a Yankee and had thousands of posts devoted to him. It’s the nature of the beast. In all sports. Why not go after Santana? Why Johnson over Damon? Why Kyle Brady instead of Warren Sapp? Why Ken O’Brien instead of Marino. It’s not important, but nothing about sports is.

    Honestly, if this blog ever comes to the point of a full day of postings about Ramiro Pena, I’d go scooters. I’d prefer CR9′s greatest hits to backup catcher talk.

    It’s about getting traffic on these blogs and for better or worse, Damon remains a bit of a hot button issue.

  156. champ809 February 16th, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    The part that peaople are forgetting is that as per damon’s own words that his last directive to Boras was to get me a 2yr deal at 11mil a yr from the Yanks.

    If this was his response to the Yanks 2/14mm take it leave it offer then what is Boras to do? To me it comes back to Damon’s approaching this with a seriously inflated view of his postion in the market.

    Teams seem to realize that a) he’s a defensive liabilty these days and really is best suited DH’ing; b) he is certainly miscast as a power hitting corner outfielder as his “power” is mostly a mirage that exists in theBronx and Fenway; and c) that one at bat and double steal in game 4 of the WS happened in Nov. and should have no bearing in his value going forward. he is an aging player who is about
    to nose dive into his decline phase headlong and headfirst.

  157. RayVT February 16th, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    I wouldn’t be surprised if Damon waited until the end of April to sign with someone, perhaps even the Yamkees. Someone will be injured or not perform to expectations and then he will have his opening to get more dollars.

  158. S.o.S. February 16th, 2010 at 3:40 pm

    What is up peoples.

    GB,
    Have they had the prime 9 top 10th men yet(benchwarmers/pinch hitters)? I wonder if Strawman or Sierra would make that list? Who knows? Maybe Thames can continue his Maa$ tear (homeruns per at bat) and make the list in a couple years.

  159. Erin February 16th, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    New Post: Five more players invited to camp

  160. S.o.S. February 16th, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    Talking about Johnny Damon screwing up his own deal, that’s not that important.

    =====

    Word. Im just surprised that so many are surprised. This is from a guy that said he would never play for the Yanks. Money talks and nothing else in Damons world.

  161. champ809 February 16th, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    Bodi

    I know I should be guarding against this but I’m really excited about Garcia this year. I just gotta a feeling is that this is the year he stays healthy and his game explodes!
    That big fastball comes back mean and his secondary pitches are murder.His time may be now!

  162. GreenBeret7 February 16th, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    Erin
    February 16th, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    This is a joke, right??? If not, wow and

    ————————————————————

    The only joke is the clown that wrote it, Erin.

    *********************
    LOL You’re right.

    How are you today GB?

    ————————————————————

    Afternoon, Erin. Doing pretty well, just a little bit of a cold, but, it’s not anything that can’t dealt with. Thanks for asking. How are you doing? I assume the weather is less than Spring Training-like.

  163. GreenBeret7 February 16th, 2010 at 3:50 pm

    S.o.S.
    February 16th, 2010 at 3:40 pm
    What is up peoples.

    GB,
    Have they had the prime 9 top 10th men yet(benchwarmers/pinch hitters)? I wonder if Strawman or Sierra would make that list? Who knows? Maybe Thames can continue his Maa$ tear (homeruns per at bat) and make the list in a couple years.

    ————————————————————

    Haven’t seen any All-time great bench players on Prime 9, but, near the top would be Cliff Johnson, Jerry Lynch, Smokey Burgess and above all, Johnny Blanchard.

  164. GreenBeret7 February 16th, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    S.o.S.

    Add Manny Mota, Lenny Harris and John VanderWal

  165. austinmac February 16th, 2010 at 4:13 pm

    I still have significant doubts Gardner will hit enough to be a regular. I do think Winn provides more insurance than most of you. It is my view he will get far more at bats than Thames/Hoffman. He may well get more than Gardner.

  166. CCBIggs February 16th, 2010 at 5:05 pm

    It’s pretty clear from Cashman’s quotes that he absolutely hates Boras. Good.

  167. The Damon-ator February 16th, 2010 at 5:13 pm

    Congrats to Wang, here’s hoping he gets back to form and the Yanks can resign him after this deal!

  168. ko February 16th, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    I see that I got several lol’s on my comments earlier. When you’re done laughing, you may want to answer some questions:
    Do you think a GM who has won only one title in the last nine years with the resources the Yankees have is doing a)an excellent job; b) a good job; c) a su-par job; d) a bad job? Do you think a GM who finished out of the playoffs and then spent $420 million to win a world title is a) a genius; b) a good GM; c) a sub-par GM d) Lucky to have a job? Do you think a GM who has replaced Abreu, Damon and Matsui with Swisher, Gardner and Johnson is a) a genius; b} a good GM; c) a sub-par GM; d) Lucky to have a job? You know what my answers are. I’m curious to know what yours are and what your justifications for your answers are

  169. DaSaint007 February 16th, 2010 at 5:45 pm

    ko
    February 16th, 2010 at 5:14 pm
    I see that I got several lol’s on my comments earlier. When you’re done laughing, you may want to answer some questions:
    Do you think a GM who has won only one title in the last nine years with the resources the Yankees have is doing a)an excellent job; b) a good job; c) a su-par job; d) a bad job? Do you think a GM who finished out of the playoffs and then spent $420 million to win a world title is a) a genius; b) a good GM; c) a sub-par GM d) Lucky to have a job? Do you think a GM who has replaced Abreu, Damon and Matsui with Swisher, Gardner and Johnson is a) a genius; b} a good GM; c) a sub-par GM; d) Lucky to have a job? You know what my answers are. I’m curious to know what yours are and what your justifications for your answers are

    ———————————————————-
    Ko,

    The answers to your questions:

    Cashman has done an excellent job. How may othe GM’s have won multiple titles in the last 9 years?

    Cashman didn’t spend $420 million. They contracted for $420 million. I can understand your lack of proficiency in math, and maybe the same for english comprehension, but that total contract value hasn’t been spent yet. It will be over the next 8 years though. So, do you think you’re 1) excellent in math, 2) good in math, or 3) pitiful.

    Do you think a GM who has replaced Abreu, Damon and Matsui with Swisher, Gardner and Johnson is a) a genius; b} a good GM; c) a sub-par GM; d) Lucky to have a job?

    Answer: Did Abreu help the Angels win the WS? Did Swisher help the Yankees make it to the WS?

    And Granderson, Johnson, Vazquez AND the payroll flexibility it offers for 2011 is better than Damon, Matsui, Coke and Cabrera (you forgot them)

  170. Warren February 16th, 2010 at 7:26 pm

    Cashman doesn’t hate Boras or any agent, that is their job – sell the player, make the highest deal.
    Cashman just stated the facts of the recent ended negotiation and Boras did not do his job for his client.

  171. Dean February 16th, 2010 at 8:13 pm

    I love all the people saying how “Cash” stuck it to Boras.

    Wake up, people. The bottom line is that Cashman knew from the parade up the Canyon of Heroes that neither Mastui nor Damon was coming back. End of story. They didn’t want him back. They weren’t interested. Which is fine. But don’t BS everybody…The Yanks don’t do breakups well..Just come out from the start and say you want to go in another direction…..

    The Yanks don’t EVER lose players they want — (except Maddux) or want to make a deal with. I especially love those who say Cashman “read the market right. Damon read it wrong.”

    Wrong again. When the Yanks want somebody: CC, AJ, Tex….THEY BLOW AWAY THE MARKET..THERE ISN’T ANY MARKET…They don’t leave it to chance…..Great signings, but the Yanks paid much much more than the next bidder…They don’t want to leave things to chance..

    Back in 2005 we all knew Bubba Crosby wasn’t going to be the starting CF..So what did Cashman do? He blew away the field — and oh yeah — paid a guy named Johnny Damon $52 MILLION for 4 years….That’s $13 mil per year..

    And Cashman paid him based on what Damon had done for the Red Sox. Well Damon’s numbers with the Yanks were just about the same as they were with the Sox –AND he came up huge in October……

    And Damon was supposed to take a 40 percent pay cut? Why?

    I say 2 years, $20 MIL was fair…NOT two years, seven MIL…And Cashman knew Damon wasnt going to except that deal..

    Just the way he knew Torre wouldn’t take a ONE YEAR deal..

    Just the way he knew Bernie Williams would quit rather than sign a minor-league deal….

    I like Cashman…I’m a huge Yankee fan and this team is still loaded…

    But Cashman is being disingenuous here…Boras is an easy target….And this isn’t Cash’s first rodeo with Boras…If they wanted Damon they would have upped the offer…

    Damon was worth having on this roster…He and Matsui gave the Yanks something the other playoff teams really didnt have..Lefties who hit big-time lefties…

    All I know is Gaudin got $3 mil, Thames got 1 mil with incentives, Mitre 1 mil, Wynn got 2 mil with incentives and Nick “Hospital Bed” Johnson got 5 mil…For zero contribution at this point..

    Meanwhile, hidden in a dark basement is Kei Igawa, who continues to make $5 mil per year for being an absolute ZERO….He will make his annual spring appearance and then be sent back down, a reminder of more Yankee money thrown away….

    So please….Spare me the “atta boy Cash” nonsense…

    If you want Damon gone, so be it, but let’s not make this a morality play…

    Damon is no innocent bystander, but anyone who knows him also knows he wants to get paid..And what’s wrong with that?

    In four years he loosened up the clubhouse, was a go-to guy when it came to speaking with the media — win or lose — and he was clutch…He was worth every penny…If you don’t think so, just watch the rerun of the at-bat against Lidge and the double steal that only changed the Series…

    When Cashman isn’t interested in a player he acts like he’s a small market GM…And his negotiating tactics with Damon were worthy of a small market GM…

    Certainly not the way Cashman went about negotiations when he truly WANTED Damon back in 05….

  172. ---.---.--- February 16th, 2010 at 9:25 pm

    ko= erica

  173. Boston Dave XXVII February 16th, 2010 at 9:27 pm

    Dean,

    I agree with some of your post. I like Damon and would have been ok if they (over)paid him 2/$20M because I think he can still hit at an all-star level (or close).

    But the fact remains, the Yankees DID offer more than anybody else. 2/$14M was far above and beyond anything anyone else offered.

    Damon wanted more and he’s probably not going to get it.

    Saying Cashman didn’t read the market well doesn’t make much sense.

  174. teddy February 16th, 2010 at 9:53 pm

    cashman offer damon fair market value. they want matsui back because of his knees. dsamon chose his own fate

  175. Dean February 16th, 2010 at 10:18 pm

    Boston Dave,

    My point is that because of the Yankees’ resources, Cashman never really has to “read the market.”

    When Cashman tried to replace Nelson/Stanton he wasted millions overpaying Karsay, Hammond, Farnsworth and on and on…At least you know what you get with Damon…..

    But the Yanks have the ability to cover their mistakes…Would it have been so bad to pay Damon $20 mil for 2 years?

    And if the Yankees REALLY want Carl Crawford next year, do you really think they will offer him a 40 percent paycut? I respectfully submit that if Cashman is hot for Carl they will pay WAY MORE than market value….To ensure he comes to New York…

    I’m not killing Cashman per se on the decision to cut bait as much as for the silliness in the parting….Deep down Cashman had no problem walking away from Damon…And when you can walk away with no regrets, yes, you do have leverage…I think he’s making a mistake…and will end up looking for a professional lefty bat come July…

    Now Cashman would have bust a gut had he lost Sabathia….He HAD TO HAVE HIM..Which is why the Yanks overpaid by a whole lot…

    I don’t know about you guys, but had I starred in the Series, I would have a problem taking a 40 percent paycut from a team that is printing money…

    Consider the extra bucks the team is raking in as World Champs, well, I’d want to be paid…

    Think the Yanks are gonna ask Jeter to take a 40 percent paycut next year?

    Obviously, I’m not comparing Damon to Jeter, but Derek — who will be 36 — is worth much more to the Yanks, then he is to, say the White Sox or the Twins….

    I hope Derek brings a gun and mask to the negotiations…

    The point is that Cashman’s offer was fair IF he was just another GM in the mix with a true budget and restrictions who can’t afford to cover up a mistake.

    But Cashman, of course, is the GM of the Yankees…Cash doesn’t OWE Damon, but he was a good fit and giving the guy what he’s worth to the Yanks wouldn’t have killed them…

  176. Go Johnny ! February 17th, 2010 at 12:59 am

    Cashman did the right thing, Damon was stupid and money hungry.

  177. Dean February 18th, 2010 at 5:32 pm

    Money hungry for taking a pay cut?

    Keep drinking the Kool Aid. Check back with me when Cashman is still looking for a lefty outfield bat come July…


Sponsored by:
 

Search

    Advertisement

    Follow

    Mobile

    Read The LoHud Yankees Blog on the go by navigating to the blog on your smartphone or mobile device's browser. No apps or downloads are required.

Advertisement

Place an ad

Call (914) 694-3581