State of the Yankees: Bullpen
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Feb 16, 2010 
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This post could have been more or less completed almost two months ago, because the Yankees haven’t made any massive changes to the bullpen. They’ve traded away more relievers than they’ve added, but that’s a luxury of a system that has multiple young, effective bullpen options. Creating an organizational bullpen depth chart is a tricky thing — if the Yankees are willing to convert Phil Hughes to the bullpen, they’re willing to convert anyone — but we can get a basic idea of which pitchers are on their way.
Closer: Mariano Rivera
Front runners: Dave Robertson, Damaso Marte, Alfredo Aceves, Chad Gaudin, Boone Logan, Phil Hughes/Joba Chamberlain
Veteran insurance: Sergio Mitre, Royce Ring, Edwar Ramirez
Almost ready: Mark Melancon, Romulo Sanchez, Wilkin De La Rosa, Kevin Whelan
Low rising: Graham Stoneburner, Gavin Brooks, Andrew Brackman
As always, the bullpen begins at the end, with Rivera in the ninth inning. All that’s left is to put together a group capable of giving him the ball. Hughes and Chamberlain have proven that key relievers can come from fairly unexpected places, but the Yankees have groomed Robertson and Melancon to eventually fill a late-inning, setup role, and this could be the year they take those roles fulltime. The bullpen favorites are pretty easy to pick, but there always seems to be at least one bullpen surprise out of spring training (and more surprises by the middle of the summer). Lower in the system, the Yankees have a lot of quality arms that could eventually convert to the pen. I listed Brackman as something of a place-filler for all of those potential starter-turned-relievers. As far as I know, there are no current plans to make him a reliever.
Worst-case scenario: The absolute worst-case scenario involves some sort of Rivera implosion, but at this point it’s absurd to even speculate about such a thing. Instead, let’s say the worst-case scenario starts in the rotation. Losing a starter – or two – could have a significant trickle down effect into the bullpen. It’s worth noting that a lot of the Yankees relievers are young, without lengthy track records of success. Marte isn’t young, but his track record took a significant hit last season. Bullpen’s are tricky. There’s a reason the Yankees have not wanted to spend heavily on relievers, and the bullpen’s worst-case scenario is pretty much the same for every team: The closer gets hurt, and the rest of the bullpen crumbles from it’s base.
Best-case scenario: Rivera continues to slap Father Time squarly in the mouth. Robertson and Melancon emerge as such reliable late-inning relievers that the Yankees feel comfortable with both Hughes and Chamberlain being stretched out as starters. Marte pitches like he did in the postseason. Gaudin and Aceves thrive in multi-inning roles (and the Yankees don’t need them to spot start). It wouldn’t hurt to have one of the Triple-A power pitchers — Whelan, Sanchez or Grant Duff — put everything in place and become a big league role player by the end of the season.
The future: It still begins and ends with Rivera, who is a free agent at the end of the season. The Yankees will have a tough task deciding how much money and how many years to give Rivera, who will surely slow down at some point (though it may be in 15 years). A close second in determining the future of the bullpen is the development of Hughes and Chamberlain. If either of those two is converted to the bullpen full-time, it would clearly change the future significantly. Further development of Robertson and Melancon could also have a major impact on the next five or six years of the Yankees’ pen. Down the road is the possibility that Stoneburner — as well as several other starters — could be converted from the rotation to the pen.
Not even an attempt at the complete depth chart
The long-term future of the Yankees bullpen is probably hidden in the rotations of the minor league affiliates. As a matter of course, the Yankees develop almost all of their top pitchers as starters until the upper-levels, and even then some are never moved to the bullpen until they get to New York. It makes little sense to attempt a complete minor league depth chart — I haven’t asked enough questions about the lower-level relievers to finish one with any sort of confidence –but here are some names that stand out for one reason or another.
On the verge: Mark Melancon, Kevin Whelan, Grant Duff, Amaury Sanit, Jonathan Albaladejo, Wilkins Arias, Royce Ring, Edwar Ramirez, Zach Segovia, Eric Wordekemper
Rule 5 picks: Zach Kroenke, Kanekoa Texeira (in the conversation if they’re sent back)
Lower in the system: Noel Castillo, Jonathan Hovis, Pat Venditte, Tim Norton, Brad Rulon, Jonathan Ortiz, Ryan Flannery, Gavin Brooks
mentioned this right at the end of the last thread, but SABR is giving away their emerald guild to baseball 2010 (pdf). just put in an email and they send a link to download the book.
http://www.sabr.org/sabrwide.c…..6,0,36,239
I really think we need to hold off on expecting Melancon to be a pivotal figure in the pen this year until he shows a lot more.
Thanks Chad. But you seem to be assuming the Yanks will go North with 12 pitchers (7 in the pen). That may be the way it works out but don’t you think they might take 14 position players North? At least to start the season? If their starters pitch to form there is less stress on the pen and there are normally a lot of off days at the beginning of the season.
Is is just me, or is Stoneburner a really cool name?
Okay, my Kevin Long/Joba joke fell on deaf ears as we move along to a new thread.
The bullpen is the least of our worries. lol. As usual it’s a living, breathing, growing, organic entity.
Working backwards:
-Rivera
-Hughes/Joba
-Robertson
-Marte/Aceves
-Mitre (would take over for Alby’s not-too-good groundballer)
-Gaudin (long guy/spot starter)
I do not see the Yankees converting Phil to a permanent reliever, no way. Also, even if Melancon does do well and Robertson progresses, Phil or Joba (whoever does not get the #5 spot) will not be stretched out as starters unless they get sent to AAA.
m
February 16th, 2010 at 6:10 pm
Okay, my Kevin Long/Joba joke fell on deaf ears as we move along to a new thread.
**********************
What was your joke??? I must have missed it.
Nothing. Just intimated that the people pointing out Joba’s belly were mistakenly looking at Kevin Long’s picture.
Just being stoopid.
repost: Article about Damon but good info on the homer hype of the Stadium.
http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2010/0…..rom-damon/
m-I went back and looked. It was funny!
Nationals, Bruney Go To Arbitration Hearing
By Mike Axisa [February 16 at 5:13pm CST]
The Nationals and reliever Brian Bruney were unable to come to an agreement on a contract for 2010, so the two sides went to an arbitration hearing today according to the AP (via The Miami Herald). Bruney filed for $1.85MM, the team $1.25MM.
Bruney, who turns 28 tomorrow, was acquired from the Yankees in December for the rights to the first overall pick in the Rule 5 Draft. He posted a 3.92 ERA with an 8.3 K/9 in 39 innings last year, battling elbow trouble in the first half. Bruney’s fastball routinely sits in the mid-90′s, but he often doesn’t know where it’s going (6.2 BB/9) and has trouble staying on the field (three DL trips since 2008).
===================================
mlbtraderumors.com
I would think Brian wins this one. Right?
No, NOTTTTTT Edwar (at all), plzzzzzz!
It’s not so funny, Erin…
Near the bottom, in Las Vegas. Wow.
http://www.daylife.com/search/.....?q=yankees
Slow speed fashion police chase?
http://www.daylife.com/photo/0.....?q=yankees
Five Earth-shattering predictions for Spring Training:
5. Brett Gardner makes team as starting CF – and # 9 hitter.
4. Hughes beats Joba for #5 rotation slot.
3. Jamie Hoffman beats Marcus Thames for the reserve OF slot (and makes Swisher expendable in 2011).
2. Girardi’s preferred lineup is: Jeter, Johnson, Tex, A-Rod, Posada, Cano, Swisher, Granderson, Gardner.
1. Kei Igawa beats out Royce Ring and others as 2nd lefty out of the pen (Rivera, Joba, Robertson, Marte, Melancon, Aceves, Igawa).
I’m ready for ST.
Is it me, or does Curtis Granderson remind you of Mickey Rivers – skinny as hell!
Is he wearing zoobas pants?
Is it 1989 again?
Joba looks fine in this pic. It helps to stand up straight and pose behind CC. Note the confident smiles. 2010 Yankees: juggernaut?
http://tinyurl.com/yg23a23
(sorry if this multi-posts, having filter problems with this link)
I really hope that neither Joba or Hughes are in the pen to start the season.
m
February 16th, 2010 at 6:23 pm
It’s not so funny, Erin…
**********************
I really did laugh! Maybe I’m stoopid too.
DaSaint,
You left out the Gaudin trade!
I had that hope as well, Rich, but then they traded for Javier Vazquez. Now I just don’t know what to hope for.
Nick,
That is a better picture. All that matters is that he has his legs under him. That’s what Roger Clemens always said.
Nick, Not a fan of Zubaz?
m,
I think Mitre gets released before Gaudin gets traded. Its just that there are no glaring holes that need filling, and frankly while Gaudin has talent, is MLB tested, young and affordable, he may not bring back more than utility talent or a couple minor league pieces. And I don’t think he takes an assignment to Scranton (not even sure he has options left).
Betsy
All Melancon needs is the opportunity as he is ready. It amazes how “fans” sometimes forget that it takes a minute sometimes for these kids to adjust when that first appearence finally arrives. If you look at Melancon’s game logs you will see that after his initial 2-3 outings he settled down and he was pretty much automatic.
The fact is that Melancon is the best reliever in the system and reminds the Yanks of Mo with his efficiency. They internally view him as being the “heir apparent” to Mo for a reason.
If he is given the opportunity early by mid season he will be THE 8th inning guy making it unnecessary to waste either Joba or Phil in that role.
DaSaint,
Someone listed the list of guys who don’t have options left (I’m assuming on the 40-man rosters), and I think Mitre and Gaudin were both on there.
Mitre will be in Scranton if he doesn’t make the big league club out of ST
Champ, all I’m saying is that Melancon has a lot to prove despite his talent. I’m not giving him the 8th spot yet, no way. By the way, let’s say he makes the team and pitches great. Phil (or Joba) will have been the set-up man for most of the year. The Yankees will not remove either one of them from their role (assuming they’ve done a good job) in favor of Melancon.
And also, if they did, where exactly do you put Phil or Joba? No, that doesn’t make any sense as I see it, Champ.
I held out a lot of promise on Wordekemper a couple of years ago, but, he took a slide backwards, though, he rebounded a bit last year. Looks like it’s taking him a couple of seasons in each step to get it together. He really overmatched the hitters in the A ball leagues. Decent stuff, nothing spectacular except his control.
Hey GB, how’re you feeling today?
I posted a link about Jair Jurrjens earlier. It appears to be of considerable concerns for the Braves. Can NYYs make a deal for Mitre and pick up a multi-positional switch hitting outfielder?
Just kidding, but, Omar Infante would be a great bench addition at 6 spots.
GB7 =
Got Leche????
DaSaint007
February 16th, 2010 at 6:48 pm
Hey GB, how’re you feeling today?
————————————————————
Doing pretty well, Simon. Just have a bit of a cold and rather tired today, but, no big deal. Thanks for asking. How is it in your neck of the woods?
I don’t think that Cashman will revisit Cabrera, but, Infante can play all three outfild and the four infield spots pretty well. He can hit and run well, too.
Dan Plesac just isn’t right. Other than Bob Uecker, there isn’t a funnier guy in a baseball booth.
Got Leche????
====
No, unfortunately.
GB
Plesac + Casey is as funny as it gets.
GB7 -
Just kidding about leche.
GreenBeret7
February 16th, 2010 at 6:57 pm
Doing pretty well, Simon. Just have a bit of a cold and rather tired today, but, no big deal. Thanks for asking. How is it in your neck of the woods?
———————————————————–
Cold and messy up here in the Big Apple, Sarge. Try some soup or some hot coffee spiked with some Appleton Rum. That should do the trick.
Don’t think the Melk man is coming back this way, but Infante would be interesting, but he may be a little pricey.
Is is just me, or is Stoneburner a really cool name?
———————————-
What’s cool is that Stoneburner is probably a branch of the Steinbrenner family. German to English translation.
DaSaint007
February 16th, 2010 at 7:17 pm
GreenBeret7
February 16th, 2010 at 6:57 pm
Doing pretty well, Simon. Just have a bit of a cold and rather tired today, but, no big deal. Thanks for asking. How is it in your neck of the woods?
———————————————————–
Cold and messy up here in the Big Apple, Sarge. Try some soup or some hot coffee spiked with some Appleton Rum. That should do the trick.
Don’t think the Melk man is coming back this way, but Infante would be interesting, but he may be a little pricey.
————————————————————
Moneywise, Infante is only making about 4.7 mil over the next two years. Playerwise, not sure that Mitre would do it, but, if Jurrjens has any trouble, they’ll need some help. No way I’d trade Guadin straight up for him though. Still, Infante just turned 28 and it seems like he’s been around forever.
You guys sure were speculating a lot about Joba’s body/weight when none of us really know what weight the Yankees want Joba at or what weight/body leads to Joba’s optimum performance. And who cares where Phil Hughes went last year. There are plenty of places to train in the offseason that is not that place. If it was some groundbreaking world changing experience every player in baseball would be there.
Losing weight did not do anything for Brian Bruney. He was still the same guy last year who could not stay healthy for more than 20 innings. And like someone else mentioned having a little belly sure does not seem to hinder CC.
Anyway, if we are going to be speculating about Joba’s body, we should be looking at his legs. That is where he gets most of his power and endurance from. Not his belly.
GB, glad to hear you’re doing ok. Are you able to see the Wonder Twins yet?
Good post, lgy
“Anyway, if we are going to be speculating about Joba’s body, we should be looking at his legs. That is where he gets most of his power and endurance from. Not his belly.”
Maybe his legs would be better served if they weren’t on the front lines of the war between gravity and that big belly.
“Maybe his legs would be better served if they weren’t on the front lines of the war between gravity and that big belly.”
Isn’t maybe the operative word?
Anyway, if we are going to be speculating about Joba’s body, we should be looking at his legs. That is where he gets most of his power and endurance from. Not his belly.
====
Yes, and drawing conclusions about his offseason from a picture is a bit of a leap.
My guess is, he’s naturally a chunky kid whether he’s in shape or not. The trouble is, people are invested in the narratives they spin and look for “evidence” to back them up. Let’s give Joba the benefit of the doubt.
As much as I don’t want to see Joba or Hughes in the pen, their presence would probably enable the Yankees to overcome the unthinkable.
I was joking about Joba earlier.
Obviously, though, it’s better to be in shape than not.
You’re kidding right?
If not, I call strawman alert.
I want to know who suggested that Joba gets his power and endurance from his belly!
And I’m not saying Joba’s out of shape.
But one would be foolish to argue that it’s okay to show up out of shape.
“As much as I don’t want to see Joba or Hughes in the pen, their presence would probably enable the Yankees to overcome the unthinkable”
If the unthinkable happens, whoever they sent to the minors would be up anyway. Though I don’t think either one is going to the minors unless they are god awful.
They were confusing him with Josh Beckett.
pat
February 16th, 2010 at 7:07 pm
GB
Plesac + Casey is as funny as it gets.
————————————————————
Not that crazy about Casey. He’s not bad, but, gets on my nerves. Plesac is just about clinically insane.
I have a sone that I found on my computer music storage file that’s made for you.
By The Tractors:
Doreen–long and lean
Strangest girl I’ve ever seen
Calls me names and treats me mean
But I’m prumb clazy ’bout doreen
Doreen’s got a thing
About movie stars and limousines
Says I’m her very own James Dean
I’m prumb clazy ’bout Doreen
Doreen–seventeen
Tight sweaters and blue jeans
When she walks, she’s obscene
I’m prumb clazy ’bout Doreen
Doreen–long and lean
Strangest girl I’ve ever seen
Calls me names and treats me mean
But I’m prumb clazy ’bout Doreen
Maybe Joba’s velocity was missing because of his shoulder and not his weight?
He wasn’t exactly a Vogue Model in 07 or 08 either.
m
February 16th, 2010 at 8:10 pm
And I’m not saying Joba’s out of shape.
But one would be foolish to argue that it’s okay to show up out of shape.
===
Even more foolish for a young pitcher fighting for a rotation spot to show up out of shape.
m
February 16th, 2010 at 8:10 pm
And I’m not saying Joba’s out of shape.
But one would be foolish to argue that it’s okay to show up out of shape.
————————-
The problem is what is “in shape” for a pitcher? Being in shape as a pitcher is demonstrably different from being in shape as an average person or even a hitter.
Bringing back Cabrera would put the cherry on top of this off-season.
Then we can get rid of Brett “Track Stat” Gardner and we wouldn’t need to tie up 3 roster spots with below average OFers who might combine to form one solid player. We would have LF locked down with Melky.
Melky can hit… something Gardner can’t do. Melky also has a rocket arm.
Maybe this is Joba’s way of telling the Yankees that he wants to go to the pen permanently, without coming out and saying it and potentially ticking them off for going through all that last year?
Only explanation for his beer belly. It is like the guy showing up to work with a hangover….
U-turn,
Melky can hit, and will, for the Braves.
Deep sigh.
Betsy – Romine wasn’t built in a day
February 16th, 2010 at 7:51 pm
GB, glad to hear you’re doing ok. Are you able to see the Wonder Twins yet?
————————————————————
No, only through glass and on cam shots on computer. Hopefully another 3-4 weeks. By the time I see them, they’ll be going to their senior prom.
“If the unthinkable happens, whoever they sent to the minors would be up anyway. Though I don’t think either one is going to the minors unless they are god awful.”
I meant something happening to Mo, so I don’t get your point.
Only explanation for his beer belly. It is like the guy showing up to work with a hangover….
====
Never seemed to hurt the Babe… or Peter O’Toole…. Or Vlad Bogicevic.
David Wells was never in shape yet he was one of the gutsiest, toughest pitchers in the league and always showed up in big games and competed like no other. Joba needs to take a page from him.
Aww, GB – that must be frustrating. I’ll bet they miss their great-grandpa
Mickey Lolich was a pretty good “fat” pitcher:
http://www.nytimes.com/1989/08.....gewanted=1
Never heard of that song, GB7
Bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
February 16th, 2010 at 8:17 pm
Only explanation for his beer belly. It is like the guy showing up to work with a hangover….
====
Never seemed to hurt the Babe… or Peter O’Toole…. Or Vlad Bogicevic
————————————————————
Boog Powell or the pre-2003 David Wells.
Being in shape is not huffing and puffing. Or running out of gas sooner than you should.
Once again, not talking about Joba specifically.
“David Wells was never in shape yet he was one of the gutsiest, toughest pitchers in the league and always showed up in big games and competed like no other.”
And I’m a fan of Boomer but that’s a joke right.
Or is my troll-dar broken?
Doreen
February 16th, 2010 at 8:20 pm
Never heard of that song, GB7
————————————————————
I didn’t figure that you had, doreen. A city girl like you doesn’t usually get into country boogie-woogie. I ran across it and thought it was a cute song. Has a hard drivin’ beat, much like Commander Cody and Brian Setzer (Stray Cats) with Oklahoma twang.
Meanwhile, I have all kinds of injuries from perpetually working out to stay in shape, so maybe it’s overrated.
Is there a Godwin’s Law for overweight pitcher discussions?
If so, I’m invoking Terry Forster before someone else does.
His velocity may be there, but with that huge stomach, there is no way he will have the stamina to last more than 70-75 pitches. no way. Not gonna happen.
CC is the exception because he is built like an oxford. Joba is just fat. Big difference.
Betsy – Romine wasn’t built in a day
February 16th, 2010 at 8:19 pm
Aww, GB – that must be frustrating. I’ll bet they miss their great-grandpa
————————————————————
Yeah, it’s driving me crazy. Sort of difficult to see much of them being all bundled up. all I can see are 2 blue eyes, 2 brown eyes and two pink noses.
“Being in shape is not huffing and puffing. Or running out of gas sooner than you should.”
——————————
I know you are not talking about Joba specifically and this is directed in general not at you…
Looking at Joba’s “beer belly” as someone referred to it tells us nothing about him huffing and puffing, running out of gas, or his endurance. There are plenty of chubby people who can work out, pitch, run, etc. all day. And this especially applies to pitchers. A pitchers endurance has much more to do with his legs than his stomach. CC is the perfect example of this.
Is it better to be a stick like Lincecum? Skinny like Ubaldo Jimenez or Zach Greinke? Chubby like King Felix? Fat like CC? These are some of the best pitchers in baseball and none of them are in “great shape.”
The point is if Joba lost 30 pounds and came it to camp like lean and muscular we still would have no idea if he is in good shape for a pitcher. For all we know he would actually be worse off with that body type. Your weight or what you look like tells you nothing about a pitcher and there are countless examples of this in baseball today and in history.
Nick in SF
February 16th, 2010 at 8:25 pm
Is there a Godwin’s Law for overweight pitcher discussions?
If so, I’m invoking Terry Forster before someone else does.
————————————————————
Ah, yes. The Fat Tub Of Goo and Gossage’s running partner.
Huge stomach? The discussion has descended into fantasy land.
Seth
February 16th, 2010 at 8:25 pm
“His velocity may be there, but with that huge stomach, there is no way he will have the stamina to last more than 70-75 pitches. no way. Not gonna happen.”
———————–
Please enlighten on us on pitching mechanics because I was not aware throwing a baseball had much to do with your stomach?
I still can’t see how carrying an extra 30 lbs. can benefit you.
Unless it helps your control.
I’m sure that post I made to pat must have confused her greatly. all of you ladies look alike to me.
GB
Confusing me and Doreen again?
DAMON ALERT: Stop reading if you’re over it….
Ken_Rosenthal Damon to #WhiteSox gaining momentum. Team has made second offer #MLB
It’s as if every mediot with a twitter account works for Boras.
Joba certainly isn’t v-shaped, but he had love handles, not a “huge” stomach. All of this conjecture is really getting bit overstated. Until you see him pitch, you have no idea what kind of physical condition he is in. As for his shape, well, that’s not necessarily an indication of that.
Joba can take a box of krispy kremes out to the mound with him for all I care as long as he does his job (whatever role that may be). I have to believe he worked hard this offseason knowing he’s going to be in a fight for that 5th spot. If he didn’t then he belongs in the pen anyway.
pat -
He does that quite a bit, doesn’t he?
“A waist is a terrible thing to mind.”
-Terry Forster
“CC is the exception because he is built like an oxford. Joba is just fat. Big difference.”
————————-
Seth,
Could you be any more biased btw? Yeah CC is an Ox but Joba is just fat…
Look at this gut!
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.co.....bathia.jpg
“The discussion has descended into fantasy land.”
Maybe Joba is just carrying around a kuato. And if we can descend into Fanstasy Island, maybe that kuota looks like Tattoo.
http://goremasternews.files.wo.....recall.jpg
Doreen
Morgan knew what she was doing when she arranged to have one of the twins be a boy and the other a girl to help him out.
“Melky also has a rocket arm.” True, but gardner gets to the ball, and more importantly, gets rid of it, much faster.
He’s storing wins in that belly. Or holds. Or saves.
pat -
Yes,she did!
I know that ST is not even officially here, and the season is a ways off, but I’m restless. I’m at the point where I’m even anticipating Trade Deadline targets. Not good.
I know that ST is not even officially here, and the season is a ways off, but I’m restless. I’m at the point where I’m even anticipating Trade Deadline targets. Not good.
Sorry folks. So antsy I hit enter twice. Not good.
This has gotten so absurd, it’s funny….
Ken_Rosenthal Take back previous tweet: #WhiteSox did not make second offer. Original offer stands and is not thought to be as high as Tigers’.
3 minutes ago from web
Peaking in here before going home. Lets call a spade a spade.
JOBA IS BIG BONED.
End of story.
pat
February 16th, 2010 at 8:43 pm
Doreen
Morgan knew what she was doing when she arranged to have one of the twins be a boy and the other a girl to help him out.
————————————————————
Now that’s just mean. You women think you own the world.
Saint,
Making double posts might make the deadline come faster. Just like the refresh button makes us see more posts or pushing the elevator button 10x even though the light was already lit.
Maybe Joba is just carrying around a kuato. And if we can descend into Fanstasy Island, maybe that kuota looks like Tattoo.
========
Im tired of hearing about Lost. Didnt even watch the last one.
S.o.S.,
You mean hitting the elevator button several times really doesn’t work.
I apologize for being the spelling nazi that I am, but this sort of thing hurts my brain:
“Bullpen’s are tricky. There’s a reason the Yankees have not wanted to spend heavily on relievers, and the bullpen’s worst-case scenario is pretty much the same for every team…”
The latter “bullpen’s” is the correct usage. The former is not. The apostrophe s should not be used to signify a plural.
End of off topic tangent.
“I apologize for being the spelling nazi that I am, but this sort of thing hurts my brain:”
whatever you do , DO NOT READ GB7′S POSTS . if you do, an aneurism may be closer than you think.
“This has gotten so absurd, it’s funny….”
Boras: Well? Shall we go?
Damon: Yes, let’s go.
[they do not move]
Just because you apologize does not make you any less of a d-o-u-c-h-e for calling Chad out on that mistake.
I am gonna say that I am positive as a writer Chad knows he misused the apostrophe and it was simply a typo.
I apologize for calling you a d-o-u-c-h-e. See how that works?
Chad has already admitted he’s a bad speller. Spellcheck might not have caught the misuse of “it’s”, but it might have caught “squarly”.
But it’s okay, Chad. We still support you, after all you’re still a rookie.
Betsy
Thepoint is that as I posted earlier I’m of the opinion that in the case that Phil loses out to Joba in the battle for #5 then while relugated to the pen I believe that he should not be the 8th inning guy but rather he should assume Ace Aceves role as the 6th starter/multiple inning guy with Ace becoming the 7th inning guy and sliding D Rob into the 8th along with Marte depending on matchups. Melancon can pitch in the 7th with Ace initially until he’s clearly dominating and ready for more higher leveraged work.
If Hughes goes to the pen then the Yanks have to be creative about getting him both a) multiple innings to have him use his full arsenal of pitches and keep him at least stretched out for 80-90 pitches if needed and b) get him in the 120 innings pitched range so that next season he’d be good to go for 170-180 in the #5 spot.
You’re probably right to not watch, S.o.S., I’m afraid they might show Jack celebrating the Red Sox in the 2004 timeline.
On the other hand, last week’s epi will be shown tonight before the new one if you want to catch up. I’m on board for the duration!
Tom, I want to recognize that fine post, but I don’t like things that involve Beckett.
Isn’t that more syntax than spelling?
A nice article by NYT’s new beat writer:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02.....f=baseball
Rosetta Stone Inititative? Impressive! And he’s already looking forward to Hope Week.
From MLBTR-
7:54pm: Rosenthal takes back his previous tweet, and says that the White Sox did not make Damon a second offer. Their original offer still stands, though it is not believed to be as high as Detroit’s.
Rosenthal adds that Damon and his wife “would prefer him to play in a more cosmopolitan city than Detroit,” for what it’s worth.
****************
Yeah…. cause nothing yells “Urban Metropolis” quite like Detroit. ARGH!!!!!!!
They need to invoke a mercy rule in this Canada-Norway game.
*initiative
m
February 16th, 2010 at 9:23 pm
Chad has already admitted he’s a bad speller. Spellcheck might not have caught the misuse of “it’s”, but it might have caught “squarly”.
But it’s okay, Chad. We still support you, after all you’re still a rookie.
————————————————————
WAIT JUST A MINUTE, HERE. Chad admits that he’s a bad speller and gets a pass? I admit that I’m a bad speller and get hammered? I guess it only matters how owns the board, huh? OK…Two can play that game.
I’m going to start pointing out all spelling errors. Excuse me while I look for my dictionary and make sure spell check is working.
OK…I’m ready for you guys now.
GB7,
Sorry, grizzled ol’ vets shouldn’t be making rookie mistakes.
Interesting given the discussion about Gardner this morning:
SJK: If the season were starting tomorrow, who would be your starting CF?
CASH: Curtis Granderson. But if Gardner proves our team is better with him in CF and he can be an everyday outfielder…he has a lot to show in a short amount of time in Spring Training. We believe he is better in CF and we believe Granderson would be terrific in LF. But, Granderson was acquired to be our everyday CF and that is our expectation.
Is Dave Collins available?
Cashman on his decision making for the 5th spot during ST:
CASH: You are forced to make those types of decisions. You take into account their prior history, but really no one is coming in with an edge. We’ll see what we see. Maybe someone shows up out of shape or pulls a hamstring, that helps make a decision. Maybe someone is throwing ball better than someone else.
————————
“Maybe someone shows up out of shape” lol… looks like Cash knew what to expect with Joba. Sad that the guy just can’t become thin.
Further proof that they want Gardner to win the CF job.
m
February 16th, 2010 at 9:48 pm
GB7,
Sorry, grizzled ol’ vets shouldn’t be making rookie mistakes.
————————————————————
And, don’t think that I didn’t see that misspelled word “initiative” missy.
No pass for being a faster typist, either.
“Maybe someone shows up out of shape” lol… looks like Cash knew what to expect with Joba. Sad that the guy just can’t become thin.
___
Actually, sometimes guys that are ripped are more likely to pull muscles.
Curtis Granderson is the NY Yankees Centerfielder….Brett Gardner is a 4th outfielder / platoon type ballplayer…..Sorry Rich in NJ….He is what he is….He’ll be a useful chip, but he’s not an everyday ballplayer, at least not in The Bronx
Pat M
Gardner will start in LF if he doesn’t start in CF.
Are there any sabermetrics to prove that?
“Rosenthal adds that Damon and his wife “would prefer him to play in a more cosmopolitan city than Detroit,” for what it’s worth.”
Cosmopolitan = safe and prosperous.
Ground zero of the current economic collapse in manufacturing, still ranking at or near the top in most dangerous “large” cities. Yessiree, that Detroit.
http://www.morganquitno.com/xcit06pop.htm#500,000+
So does this officially end the discussion about whether Gardner is a better defensive CF than Granderson or are there more objections?
If not, is Dave Collins available?
That was a nice article, m, but it was Curtis Granderson who is looking forward to Hope Week, not the new NYT beat writer.
lets go yankees
In fairness, many of us questioned Joe Torre’s talent evaluations for years, so I think it’s reasonable for people to disagree with Cashman’s.
“Damon played golf Monday with White Sox catcher A.J. Pierzynski and broadcaster Ken “Hawk” Harrelson, according to major-league sources.
Pierzynski lobbied Damon to sign with the White Sox, and Damon’s wife, Michelle, would prefer him to play in a more cosmopolitan city than Detroit, multiple sources say.”
Shopping is better on Michigan Ave! It’s always about the shopping.
Every move that Damon (and probably his wife and kids) makes at this point is being orchestrated by Boras.
Champ, I do agree about Phil – I hate the idea that he’s going to be a set up man again
“Actually, sometimes guys that are ripped are more likely to pull muscles.”
Mientkiewicz made me laugh when he said you can’t pull fat.
Rich in NJ, Gardner will start as a platoon type ballplayer…..Winn will spell Gardner depending on who’s pitching….Spring Training is a blink when compared to a season….Time is the true evaluator
Rich, I don’t agree at all…..
Who is SJK anyway?
That was a great article on Granderson; nice start for Spiegel. Unfortunately for CG, his $ won’t go as far in NY……..
Pat M,
It’s no use.
The Cult of Brett is bigger than all of us put together.
Pat M, I completely agree. I’m not sure why people are so anxious for Gardner to start in CF. He’s not a patch on Granderson’s fanny and I don’t even think he’s a starting OF. I’m not sure what point Cash is trying to make, but I would be pretty annoyed if he moved Granderson over to cater to a player of Gardner’s caliber
It might even be bigger than his head…….I think fans need to understand that not everyone coming up from our farm system is going to be any good. Gardner can run – he should be in track and field. He is sorely lacking in skills that make a real baseball players.
Unless there’s an early injury during the spring, the yankees have made no decisions on who the #5 pitcher will be and won’t for about 5-6 more weeks. The media has no clue and certainly, nobody on this board has any clue as to who it is or what Girardi or Cashman has decided.
Betsy,
No point in resisting.
I predict that Gardner will not only be the starting CF, he will also be the starting LF.
In fact, he will also pitch and catch himself.
All everyone needs to do is get out of his way.
But if it doesn’t work out, is Dave Collins available?
Betsy
Can you be more specific?
Pat M.
You could be right, but I would like to see Gardner get a full shot to fail before he is platooned. He hit LHP quite well in the mLs:
v. L: 0.292 0.361 0.406 0.767
v. R: 0.288 0.398 0.373 0.771
Maybe we enter him in the Summer Games?
“The Cult of Brett is bigger than all of us put together.”
The word cult implies an aversion for facts. Stats are facts. People that want to see Gardner get a chance to fail have cited UZR and monthly platoon splits to buttress their case.
So perhaps the cult are those that oppose giving Gardner a shot.
Rich,
You need a sense of humor.
I’m just having some fun with the Gardner zeal on this board. I wish Gardner no harm. In fact, I wish him and any pinstriper the very best.
The debate has just gone round and round. He’ll get his shot.
Rich, I just don’t think Cashman particularly wants Gardner in CF. What Cash was saying is that he believes Gardner is better in CF than he is in LF and that CG would be a very good LF; he wasn’t saying that Gardner was better in CF than CG. I do not see any way Gardner pushes Granderson out of CF.
There’s a very good interview with Cash on this site that apparently can not be named here….
Betsy.
Why would Girardi “cater” to Gardner?
Betsy,
Being giving a starting job is one thing.
Hanging onto it is another.
Talent – or the lack of it – will out.
Gosh, someone could read that Cashman quote and almost get the impression that Granderson has the leg up to be the CF.
Not sure what the source of the Gardner hatred is, however. Isn’t it good for the team if he does well?
“Erica – always OPPC February 16th, 2010 at 9:43 pm
From MLBTR-
7:54pm: Rosenthal takes back his previous tweet, and says that the White Sox did not make Damon a second offer. Their original offer still stands, though it is not believed to be as high as Detroit’s.
Rosenthal adds that Damon and his wife “would prefer him to play in a more cosmopolitan city than Detroit,” for what it’s worth.
****************
Yeah…. cause nothing yells “Urban Metropolis” quite like Detroit. ARGH!!!!!!!”
usually don’t judge but Damon’s wife does look like the gold digger type just by her appearance. She can tell Johnny that he blew it in November and she could have still gone shopping on 5th Avenue come summer.
Being given.
Forget The Rapid City Comet, Bodh. Bring back Roy White.
Guess Johnny won’t be a Tiger.
Rose, he wouldn’t. My point is that I don’t think there is any way Gardner is starting in CF for the Yankees this year. He doesn’t deserve that honor – Granderson does.
Nick, no hate for Gardner; I just don’t think he’s a starter and I DO hate the idea of him starting in CF over Granderson. That bugs me.
Bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
Perhaps I do, but the repetitiveness of “humor” sort of reduces it’s ability to provoke a smile.
Betsy
I don’t think there has ever been a player who is better in CF than at a corner OF position because corner OF is easier to play, unless one is wall shy, which I don’t think Gardner is.
GB7,
I’ll take Royito Blancito 7 days a week.
I just think we have not been as obsessed with a “speed guy” since Dave Collins, but at least Collins was a proven major league regular who had helped lead his team to the best NL record the year before (even though they did not make the playoffs)!
That was the famous strike split season, they finished second to LaSloba in the West in one half of the season and second to Houston in the other half so they stayed home while LaSloba and Stros played off for the NL West title).
tampayank
February 16th, 2010 at 10:24 pm
“Erica – always OPPC February 16th, 2010 at 9:43 pm
From MLBTR-
7:54pm: Rosenthal takes back his previous tweet, and says that the White Sox did not make Damon a second offer. Their original offer still stands, though it is not believed to be as high as Detroit’s.
Rosenthal adds that Damon and his wife “would prefer him to play in a more cosmopolitan city than Detroit,” for what it’s worth.
****************
Yeah…. cause nothing yells “Urban Metropolis” quite like Detroit. ARGH!!!!!!!”
usually don’t judge but Damon’s wife does look like the gold digger type just by her appearance. She can tell Johnny that he blew it in November and she could have still gone shopping on 5th Avenue come summer.
————————————————————
She could take for every bit of my $6.57 any day.
Is Ben Shpigel the new NYT Yankees beat writer? He’s a good guy who always did a great job on the Mets beat. Also, we went to journalism school together. I’m a little jealous of his job right now.
For the grammar Nazi:
it’s should be its
Betsy, I’m glad you don’t hate Gardner even though “He’s not a patch on Granderson’s fanny” and “He is sorely lacking in skills that make a real baseball players.”
Riddle me this, though: if they do decide to make Gardner the centerfielder, what would the reasoning be?
“SJK: On to the 5th starter competition — Joba Chamberlain lost significant juice on his fastball last year, in some estimates over 2 mph. How concerned are you about that and is that something which will weigh into your decision about who becomes the 5th starter?
CASH: Performance will dictate. He was inconsistent last year. He has completed his development program. May the best man win.”
The rest is over at No Mas
Rich in NJ
February 16th, 2010 at 10:30 pm
Bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
Perhaps I do, but the repetitiveness of “humor” sort of reduces it’s ability to provoke a smile.
===
It’s true that humor is a very subjective matter. My brand of humor might not be yours, etc.
To each, his own, I guess.
Rich in NJ
February 16th, 2010 at 10:30 pm
Bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
Perhaps I do, but the repetitiveness of “humor” sort of reduces it’s ability to provoke a smile.
————————————————————
Just a guess, but, I’m betting that the last time you ever had anything resembling a smile, those around you discovered that it was just gas.
A patch on what?
GreenBeret7
“Just a guess, but, I’m betting that the last time you ever had anything resembling a smile, those around you discovered that it was just gas.”
Now that made me laugh…not.
Like I said, humor is a subjective matter.
SJK: Do you think his[montero's] future is behind the plate?
CASH: We hope so. His value is highest as a catcher. His bat will find a way into the middle of the lineup, that’s without a doubt. Whether he stays behind the plate, is a first baseman, a rightfielder, a DH – that remains to be seen. But he’s got one of the best throwing arms in the minors, he’s got some of the best blocking…he’s just so big, mechanically he takes a lot longer in his release. That’s an area he needs to shorten up.
Nick, I don’t get it. I can think badly of Gardner as a baseball player without hating him personally; I’m not sure why you are taking my comments personally. They express how I feel about Gardner as a player.
Anyway, to conclude my little analogy, when Collins didn’t pan out in 1982 the Yanks went in a different direction…
Now, if the idiots at CNBC had put on the Russia-Latvia game, instead of the women’s Finland-China game, I would have something better to do than make Dave Collins jokes.
So take it up with them.
Rich, you’ll be pleased to know I’m about to lose power on my laptop, so you can wax poetic about Gardner with no snide remarks from me
.
Good night, all!
Bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
February 16th, 2010 at 10:30 pm
GB7,
I’ll take Royito Blancito 7 days a week.
I just think we have not been as obsessed with a “speed guy” since Dave Collins, but at least Collins was a proven major league regular who had helped lead his team to the best NL record the year before (even though they did not make the playoffs)!
————————————————————
Roy white was probably the most unappreaciated Yankee of the last 40 years. He did few things great but did everything well. One of the smartest base runners I’ve seen. Got to nearly everything in left field, didn’t have a great arm, but, he was accurate and unloaded the throws quick. A 22 year old Roy White would look just fine in the 2010 Yankee outfield.
Bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
The reason that the Yankees had problems in 1982 was that they let Reggie go. To borrow a phrase, Collins wasn’t a patch on Reggie’s posterior.
I wanted Damon to start in LF.
I merely like Gardner better than Winn or Thames.
Betsy, I am not taking your comments personally at all (but you might consider that idea when people say things you don’t like about Phil Hughes or AJ).
I don’t think you hate Gardner personally but you sure seem to hate him as a player. That’s the Gardner hatred I was referring to and I still don’t get it.
Again, why do you think the Yankees would consider having Gardner be the centerfielder?
***underappreciated***
Whoa, GB7 and I agree about Roy White.
GB7,
Always one of my favorites. Agree about under appreciation. A solid, steady Yankee.
Rich, I was actually being ironic regarding Collins and the then-fuss over him.
Good night, guys. Soon we’ll have less theoretical arguments.
Bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
Oh, I always thought that Collins sucked and only became a Yankee because George had entered his quasi-psychotic phase.
Gardner will be given a shot at either CF or LF. He should be a line drive hitter and also be able to bunt. So far I have seen great speed and not much else.
There was every reason to believe that Collins would continue to be the same type of hitter that he had been in Cincinnati. He did continue, but, it was after he was traded to Toronto. I liked him as a player, but, he was truly a small town kid. Man, could he run, though.
Nick, I don’t like Gardner as a player – and I’ve never pretended otherwise. I don’t think the Yankees would seriously consider Gardner in CF, but that seems to be something many fans think should happen. I suppose touche about Phil and AJ, lol. I guess it’s hard to criticize a player without it sounding like it’s personal. I’m obviously rooting for Gardner to do well, but I admit I’d be surprised by any sustained success he has.
Bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
February 16th, 2010 at 10:48 pm
GB7,
Always one of my favorites. Agree about under appreciation. A solid, steady Yankee.
————————————————————
It seems as though he left his class in storage for Derek Jeter. Same type of personality and style…..and proud pinstripers. I hope that Jeter’s ending comes smoother. Never understood Martin’s dislike for Roy White, though.
Collins was basically an average hitter. If they had kept Reggie, he probably would have had the space to remain an average hitter.
Betsy you make it sound personal because you often do not provide any substance or fact to back up your claims.
When you say Brett Gardner does not have the skills of a baseball player and should go to track and field that is a personal attack.
If you say something like Gardner struggled last year doing X, Y, and Z and his minor league career do not project him to improve on X, Y, and Z then you have a reasonable argument or at least something that is discussion worthy.
Either way I think it is crazy to write a guy off after 425 plate appearances in the ML.
Is it likely he develops into an everyday player? No. Does he have the skills to do so? Absolutely. If he did not, he would not have made it this far or be here today.
Watching Jackson leave NYYs didn’t bother me in the least.
the problem is that everyone thinks that the Yanks need a thumper at every position. So Gardy doen’t fir the bill because he’s not gonna ever hit more than 5-7 homers.
But the funny thing is the Yanks from 2002-08 were a pladding team of thumpers who went home early every year because they could only thump.
Hence the decision to bring back the speed game and incorporate that into the offense to be able to beat teams in different ways.
But perception and reality on this board sometimes never meet each other and Gardner is an example of this.
Perception; Gardner is a bad offensive player
Reality; in his rookie year he hit for the same avg(.270) as the runner up R.O.Y. Gordan Beckham and had a higher .obp
Beckham of course has power but that is not nor will never be Gritty’s game his game is speed.
Speaking of his speed he stole 26 bases last yr in about 300PAs of about half a seasons abs.His career stolen base % as a pro is 88% only Beltran and Utley have higher career % and they don’t run half as much as Gritty will.
Whith regular work in CF he can address his areas of weakness with the glove(routes and going back) but he most certainly has the skillset to be a better defensive OF’er than Granderson in every facet except arm strength.
I’d be willing to bet that everybody on this board that is knocking Gardner would have been thrilled had the Yanks signed Chone Figgins as Damon’s replacement for the next 3-4yrs. The thing is Gardner has the same game as Figgins cost 9mil less and just needs the chance to grow into his game as do most all young players.
BTW any of you guys look at Gritty’s production for the 2mos prior to his injury.After his initial slow start he settled in and his #’s popped. With the experience of last year under his belt and the type of person he strikes me to be I think he’s commited himself to improving his game and is doing all in his power to take full advantage of the opportunity he’s being afforded by the Yanks.
Roy White was the best the Yankees had for a number of years. When I was in little league one year I held my hands low as he did. I shouldn’t have. He did have a very weak arm. It was weak even to my childhood eyes. He could run and could hit.
Funny that Davey Collins name came up during the Brett Geardner debate….Similar, I watched Collins whenhe came up with the Angels..He was never anything beyond average with outstnding wheels…..A mirror image in certain ways to Gardner, except I don’t I ever seen Collins look so bad in the boz as Brardner has on occasions….I hope he does well & get get 30 infield typw hits…Then he would be a .285 stick
“I’m obviously rooting for Gardner to do well, but I admit I’d be surprised by any sustained success he has.”
It’s not obvious based on your comments.
Betsy
The Yanks are CLEARLY considering Gardner for CF and Granderson in LF as per their own words. Girardi has clearly stated that he’s undecided on it and Cash has also left the door open to the possibility that they will go that way. It’s not set in stone but if they weren’t considering it then they would dead the issue and move on. It’s obvious that at least Girardi is giving it serious thought and even Jimmy Leyland whose had Granderson since his rookie days seemed to recommend to Girardi that Grandy would be better in LF.
austinmac
February 16th, 2010 at 11:08 pm
Roy White was the best the Yankees had for a number of years. When I was in little league one year I held my hands low as he did. I shouldn’t have. He did have a very weak arm. It was weak even to my childhood eyes. He could run and could hit.
————————————————————
One thing that he did well, though was scaling that left field wall. Always wished that Ken Griffey, Sr. had played longer in NY, to. Hated seeing Murcer getting traded for Bonds, but, that did lead to three AL pennants and 2 WS titles when he was swapped for Figueroa and Rivers..
I too hated Murcer being traded. I’m glad he turned out to be the truly nice person he seemed to me as a kid. He had a great Yankee Stadium swing, and I hated when they played in Shea.
As far as Reggie goes, he certainly was a player that would cause you to stop to watch him hit, regardless of what team he was on. His swinging and spinning strike outs were a sight.
Murcer was a legitimately great player in the early `70s and White was also very good.
first rule of lohud yankee blog in preseason:
thou shalt talk most about the worst player who may get significant playing time.
brett gardner wins this year in a landslide.
in a state of the yankee bullpen post :
gardener mentioned 54 times.
joba 48
rivera 8
cult of brett is too powerful to ignore.
Or perhaps Rivera’s role on the team doesn’t call for much speculation or debate.
The Yankees outfield stinks. Gardner is a sad full time starter for a team like the Yankees, please. Swisher and Granderson hit 250 last year and Granderson can’t hit leftys. No worry we have Randy Winn on the bench coming off his worst year which was historically bad vs leftys (.158). Our bench stinks too, who are you going to go to in late innings, Cervelli, Hoffman, Pena, Thames, are you kidding. The Yankees should have kept Damon, he stretches the lineup, is a great 2 hole hitter with power and speed, allows Johnson to hit 6th and Granderson 9th between 2 rightys Swisher and Jeter. This would have been some lineup but now we have Gardner patrolling the same centerfield that Bernie Williams, Mickey Mantle, and Joe Dimaggio played.
“…but now we have Gardner patrolling the same centerfield that Bernie Williams, Mickey Mantle, and Joe Dimaggio played.”
And Melky!
“pistol pete February 16th, 2010 at 11:46 pm
The Yankees outfield stinks. Gardner is a sad full time starter for a team like the Yankees, please. Swisher and Granderson hit 250 last year and Granderson can’t hit leftys. No worry we have Randy Winn on the bench coming off his worst year which was historically bad vs leftys (.158). Our bench stinks too, who are you going to go to in late innings, Cervelli, Hoffman, Pena, Thames, are you kidding. The Yankees should have kept Damon, he stretches the lineup, is a great 2 hole hitter with power and speed, allows Johnson to hit 6th and Granderson 9th between 2 rightys Swisher and Jeter. This would have been some lineup but now we have Gardner patrolling the same centerfield that Bernie Williams, Mickey Mantle, and Joe Dimaggio played.”
U MAD.
I don’t think it’s a birth right for the Yankees to have a 300 hitter at every spot in the lineup. I don’t like Gardner(I was a Melky guy) but I understand Cash not wanting to expand payroll even more, it’s still the highest in baseball.
It has crossed midnight! Pitchers and Catchers today. 28 in 2010!
“Either way I think it is crazy to write a guy off after 425 plate appearances in the ML.”
He doesn’t hit homeruns, he’s not 21 and he’s not a Baseball America Top 100 prospect. This means to a certain type of fan, he was written off before he ever put on a uniform.
I have NO idea if Brett Gardner will have sustained success in the ML. But to write anyone off who has shown what he’s shown in 375 ABs is ignorant, regardless if you want to qualify it as “just an opinion”.
Stuckey, You’re a smart guy, but honestly there’s many ab’s when it appears that he’s either overmatched or just looks real bad…..I’m not writing the guy off at all, but I’m certainly not attointing him the starting Centerfielder for the club…..Rotate him around in leftfield and see if he improves with more ab’s…..Place him situations where he can excell and grow……I just cannot see him improving by leaps and bounds that all I’m saying…..
I’ve read some crazy stuff here, but some of the stuff I read here tonight just takes the cake.
=======================================
Pat M,
Did you calculate what the L’s need to do for you to win your bet?
m, whatever could you mean??????
Nick,
Rather not say because I don’t want to single any particular person out.
It’s ok, I know what you’re talking about. I think you’re being unfair to Erin, though… Stoneburner IS a pretty cool name.
lol, Nick. I think Stoneburner’s a rather overrated name. I hope he doesn’t have a bad showing if he makes the majors. Fans can be harsh.
He ain’t got nothing on Slade Heathcott or Ring Royce. I mean, Royce Ring.
“He ain’t got nothing on Slade Heathcott or Ring Royce. I mean, Royce Ring.”
I thought his name was Ring Wraith.
Pitchers and catchers report today
I get the impression that Chad’s not a morning person.
If you don’t want to start your morning with a hideous image, DO NOT click on the following link.
http://www.boston.com/sports/b.....vals?pg=16
Aw, Bronx Jeers, how come I KNEW what was going to be in the picture?
That’s passive-aggressive condescension, Stuckey, so it’s hard to take you seriously after that. Way to label every fan (and you’re directing your comments to me, let’s not pretend otherwise) who doesn’t think Gardner is a good player thinks so because they know nothing about the game and only care about HRs.
Champ, we haven’t agreed much on anything recently – what else is new – and I’ve never read anything where Leland recommended that Granderson play left (not that it would matter to me).
Bronx Jeers
February 17th, 2010 at 8:06 am
If you don’t want to start your morning with a hideous image, DO NOT click on the following link.
http://www.boston.com/sports/b…..vals?pg=16
*******************
Why did I click on that link???? Now I’m going to be traumatized for the rest of the day!
thanks Bronx Jeers, you knew we couldn’t resist looking, yuk!
and even more amazing, it was with no snarky comments
Yay Spring Training begins today!!!
and in amazing ESPN news, they showed a clip of the Yankees winning the WS today
Physicals today for pitchers and catchers.
First workouts tomorrow.
Baseball is in the blood ……..
There was a song back in the day called “The Freaks Come Out At Night”.
Reading some of the night posts, especially the “I am so mad I want Cashman fired posts”, makes me thing night game posts are going to be a riot this year! LOL
Heyman continues to do his part for Boras:
SI_JonHeyman
#chisox owner jerry reinsdorf recently got involved in johnny damon talks. looks like AL central battle vs. #tigers
http://talksportsphilly.com/?p=1632
^^2010 MLB power rankings!
Of course its ridiculous to write off Gardner after such a small sample size but isn’t it unrealistic to expect him to be something he has never proven himself to be (a big league regular)?
He was given the starting job in CF last season out of ST and promptly lost it to a pretty mediocre player in Melky. That’s not to say he can’t improve but he is closer to 30 than he is 20 and there is a very real possibility that he is what he is already, a 4th outfielder/defensive replacement/pinch runner. That’s an important role and one he’s good at so he can contribute starting or not, but I won’t be surprised at all of we see Winn getting the bulk of the action in LF in 2010. Hope Gardner proves me dead wrong.
“#chisox owner jerry reinsdorf recently got involved in johnny damon talks. looks like AL central battle vs. #tigers”
Don’t doubt both teams have legitimate interest. Tigers have no leadoff hitter and while the White Sox could get away with using Pierre as their leadoff guy, it’s hard to imagine any team being competitive with Mark Kotsay as their lead DH. Where the Yankees did not need Damon, it could be reasonably argued that both of these teams do.
I don’t expect anything from Gardner except very good defense. I’m not even sure that he is a good pinch runner because he lacked aggressiveness at times when he was asked to do it last season. I just want him to get a shot to fail because he has shown glimpses, albeit in a small sample size, that he can be a lot better than the alternatives on the roster.
“Don’t doubt both teams have legitimate interest”
I doubt everything that is currently being written about Damon.
I LOVE the first day of Spring Training!!!!
Everything is so new!!!
“but honestly there’s many ab’s when it appears that he’s either overmatched or just looks real bad”
Then he must be doing something very right in the times he doesn’t.
“I just cannot see him improving by leaps and bounds that all I’m saying…..”
But that’s just the point. He doesn’t have to improve by leaps and bounds to be average at the job he’ll be asked to do, which is bat 9th in likely the best line-up in baseball 1-8. All he needs to do is be as good as he was last year, overmatched and bad-looking at times and all.
I think the continuing issue here is what’s actually major league average and what some Yankee fans perception of average is are two very different things.
New post.
Welcome to spring training, everyone!
“^^2010 MLB power rankings!”
No surprises in the Top 5. Guy is really high on Texas at #7. That seems a little steep. Not buying the O’s at #28 either. They’re better than the Pirates, Royals, Tribe, Nats, Pads and Astros for sure. Might be better than A’s, Mets and Giants too.
There is no budding war for Johnny Damon. Rosenthal got nailed for a bogus report on this topic yesterday. Heyman is just doing his PR thing for Boras.
Johnny either takes the one year offer from the Tigers or sits out.
No mystery teams and no bidding wars 24 hours away from pitchers and catchers reporting.
Folks who understand the business of baseball laugh at these Damon reports. They know they are bogus.
Probably why Rosenthal retracted his report yesterday.
Gardner just needs to replicate his ’09 numbers-.270ba/.3450bp- over the course of a full season and he’ll be fine.
Blake, you make my point for me.
What time has he been given to “prove” he’s s starting outfielder? 250 ABs? Should he have proven it by then?
You mention he lost the starting job to Cabrera, so why is that significant but it’s insignificant he OPS’s over 900 for two straight months when he got his legs out from under him?
But again you highlight my biggest issue with this argument. I’m by no means a huge Gardner fan nor am I expecting success from him. But all he has to do is do what he DID (proved) in 2009 over more AB’s and he’ll be a perfectly acceptable/respectable 9th place hitter.
That Gardner HAS to get much better than he already is to be a positive for the Yankees is the biggest misconception on this forum, which is unfortunate because it’s SO easy in the internet age to fact-check opinions against the data easily and readily available.