Girardi’s opening press conference
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Feb 17, 2010 
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Much of Joe Girardi’s opening spring training press conference was about defending a title, and whether that changes the Yankees focus as they prepare for 2010, but Girardi also went into some nuts and bolts of his team.
He talked about the competition for the fifth spot in the rotation, the decision of who to start in center field and the desire to have a set lineup when the Yankees break camp in a month and a half.
On the No. 5 starter: “I expect it to play out with great competition. The one thing as a manager that you worry about is they start competing tomorrow. I don’t want them to compete tomorrow. I want them to get ready to pitch in a couple of weeks, from a physical stand point.”
On the outfield: “Curtis has the most experience playing center field, and Curtis is a guy that we expect to play every day, but we want to have an open mind about this and see how each one of them does in left field. When you think about playing at our stadium, left field really plays almost as big as center field.”
On the batting order: “I really like the players that are assembled in camp, and we just have to figure out how all the parts fit.”
Here’s the full audio. Sorry this took a few hours. We had some technical issues that we hope to have fixed tomorrow. Those issues are why you’re getting the full file, including an introduction from media relations director Jason Zillo and a well played opening question from WFAN’s Sweeny Murti.
Audio clip: Adobe Flash Player (version 9 or above) is required to play this audio clip. Download the latest version here. You also need to have JavaScript enabled in your browser.
Once again, very sorry this took so long. I’m hoping it will be quicker after we get some computer issues fixed.
Also, I’ve already gotten some emails asking about pictures. I’ll try to have pictures as often as possible, but today the guys were mostly in the clubhouse and in an interview room. There wasn’t much to shoot. When they’re on the field, where I can see them, I’ll get some more pictures for the blog.
I guess Johnny Damon wasn’t in the clubhouse
“Is UZR useless? No. Is it the ultimate judgment of defensive ability? Absolutely not…”
No one has ever claimed otherwise.
SJ44
February 17th, 2010 at 6:30 pm
GB,
“That’s just it. Nobody is saying he’s a bad OF. What some of us are saying is, despite his UZR rating, he’s not a great defensive player and wasn’t great last year. Geez, watch the darn games! Even balls he caught were often adventures.”
—————————-
This is where you and the small minority on this blog disagree with pretty much everybody else.
I have never read a scouting report that did not say Gardner was either a very good or great OF. I have not heard anyone outside of this blog (experts like Neyer, Law, etc, intelligent bloggers like the guys at RAB or TYU, fans, you name it) say that Gardner was anything but a very good or great CF.
Brian Cashman yesterday said that Gardner is a better CF than Granderson who you proclaim to be one of the best in the game.
Either you, GB, etc. are right or there are a whole lot of people wrong. Which one is it?
GreenBeret7
February 17th, 2010 at 6:28 pm
Erin
February 17th, 2010 at 6:18 pm
The whole Michelle Damon doesn’t want to live in Detroit thing makes me think of Gammons infamous “Leigh Teixeira doesn’t like the shopping in Boston”
————————————————————
I assume that finding stylish adult style clothes that small would be an issue in Detroit and Boston. Most women’s clothes sold there come with free signage at says “Caution: Wide Load Ahead”.
**************
LOL I know- I don’t know how the women in Detroit and Boston find clothes. They must have to shop online.
Sorry Erica. Unless I somehow missed him, Damon was not there.
But if he was there and I really did miss him, then I’d like to say this was a fun job while it lasted!
Erin, I’m afraid you and I are going to Hell for making disparaging remarks about the ladies of Detroit and boston.
Erica aka the other half of the Two-Headed Monster
So, I watched the Sesame Street I had DVRd when I got home. It was the right one-SJP was in it. That’s really weird that she wasn’t in yours.
It was really cute, it opened with her sitting on a bench and she says “My name is Sarah Jessica and I’m waiting for Big”. Super Grover flies (or crashes) down and says he’ll help her, and brings her a big pumpkin. She says that while the pumpkin is big, it’s not the big she’s looking for. He then brings her a big snare drum. Same answer. Then a big rock. Finally, her Big arrives, it’s none other than Big Bird.
RIP, Jim Bibby. A really decent pitcher of the 70s and 80s with Texas and Pittsburgh. Brother of NBA star Mike Bibby. Passed away today at age 65.
GB7 -
Scary to me that I remembered the name Jim Bibby. Rest in peace.
65 isn’t all that old…
Did they give a c.o.d.?
“I just cringe when people twist themselves into a pretzel defending a metric that most of MLB doesn’t deem as reliable.
Its why teams are spending a lot of money developing their own, proprietary, defensive metric systems.
Is UZR useless? No. Is it the ultimate judgment of defensive ability? Absolutely not for reasons Ray VT has spoken about time after time. Most recently in his”
————————
No one claimed UZR is the ultimate judgement of ability. It is useful though as a part of the analysis.
While teams are investing money in a better system that tracks exact speeds of the ball and such, right now most teams use systems that are substantially similar to UZR or UZR itself.
Certain teams make slight changes to the basic formula but in terms of data and interpretation of the data it is basically the same.
Additionally a lot of teams do not even collect the data themselves. They buy the data just like fangraphs.
Gb-
I don’t know if you heard it or not but that hiker who fell into
the St. Helens Crater died. They tried to mount a rescue but it didn’t work out. Being an avid hiker I can relate.
You seem to be feeling better today ?
Chad,
So who has the championship belt for the beginning of the offseason? Take a picture of that for us and see if anyone has made up windows on their locker. Weirder things are welcomed.
CHAD,
meant preseason.
Doreen, I haven’t checked any sites. The news just came across on MLB-TV. He was a big guy and intimidated hitters at times. Not throwing at batters, just control issues at times. He’d probably been a #4 pitcher today and on a lot of teams a #3 with #2 stuff. No, 65 isn’t at all old.
Most women’s clothes sold there come with free signage at says “Caution: Wide Load Ahead”.
=====
GB7,
Remember when you said the other day that sometimes i say things that make you nod your head? I guess im rubbing off on you(im nodding my head). Let me guess, the next thing your going to say that the clothes have a sensor in them that beeps if they take a step backwords.
I wouldn’t sweat it Chad. If Damon was there you would have heard a lot of whimpering and pleading.
Sorry Erica.
GB7 -
No cause was released. Family asked for privacy but said they will release a statement at some point.
Brian Cashman did not say Gardner is a better CF than Granderson. He said he thought Gardner could be a very good CF. Big distinction.
Also, what is he supposed to say? He’s not going to run the kid down. Nor should he.
Ironically, at least according to Girardi, whomever plays LF better between Gardner and Granderson will determine where they line up this year.
One correction on Jim Bibby. His brother was a former NBA player and Mike Bibby was Henry’s son. All that’s been released was that he had an unnamed disease and the family requested privacy.
“I have significant doubts about xxxxxxx’s ability to hit enough to play regularly.”
I redacted the name because in truth, it’s not relevant. But herein lies an important point I gets lost in the more specific debate about players.
I see the terms “not an everyday player”, “4th outfielder”, “below average” “won’t hit enough” and even just “not good” bandied about.
The problem is, in a sport with a limited pool of players, all of those things are fairly easily qualified.
Criticism (even fully disclaimed as simply being a matter of opinion”) can’t exist in a vacuum. Terms have to be defined.
Personally, I think there is a fairly large disconnect between what some people assume is ML league average, and what qualifies one as worthy of “everyday” status, and what is ACTUALLY league average.
The fairly interesting part of this forum is there seems to be people that not only have zero interest in defining these terms, but are self-righteously indignant about doing so.
S.o.S.
February 17th, 2010 at 6:56 pm
Most women’s clothes sold there come with free signage at says “Caution: Wide Load Ahead”.
=====
GB7,
Remember when you said the other day that sometimes i say things that make you nod your head? I guess im rubbing off on you(im nodding my head). Let me guess, the next thing your going to say that the clothes have a sensor in them that beeps if they take a step backwords.
————————————————————
I didn’t say anything about a beeper being in place for backing up. However, some of the better clothing stores will provide yellow flashing lights and a flagman, free of charge for 30 days.
I didn’t see the championship belt this morning. And if there’s something worth a picture in the clubhouse, I’ll certainly ask, but I wasn’t allowed to take a picture of Nick Swisher’s Yankees photo collage last season, so I might not get the green light. In most situations, photos are strictly forbidden in the clubhouse.
SJ44
February 17th, 2010 at 6:59 pm
Brian Cashman did not say Gardner is a better CF than Granderson. He said he thought Gardner could be a very good CF. Big distinction.
———————————
SJK: If the season were starting tomorrow, who would be your starting CF?
CASH: Curtis Granderson. But if Gardner proves our team is better with him in CF and he can be an everyday outfielder…he has a lot to show in a short amount of time in Spring Training. We believe he is better in CF and we believe Granderson would be terrific in LF. But, Granderson was acquired to be our everyday CF and that is our expectation.
lol GB. How much extra is it for those mini light sabre thingies people use for airplanes when landing. It should at least be an option with a 60 day money back guarantee.
Lets Go Yanks -
Cashman is saying he thinks Gardner is better in CF than Gardner is in LF, NOT that he is better in CF than Granderson.
Read it again. In context.
MTU
February 17th, 2010 at 6:51 pm
Gb-
I don’t know if you heard it or not but that hiker who fell into
the St. Helens Crater died. They tried to mount a rescue but it didn’t work out. Being an avid hiker I can relate.
You seem to be feeling better today ?
————————————————————
Thanks, MTU. I saw that earlier, but, didn’t see if he died in the fall or from exposure. There were reports that they heard him whistle and that he had actually slid down the face of the caldera and not actually fallen. either way, it’s a sad accident, but, completely avoidable.
Stuckey,
I agree. Gardner doesn’t have to be an all star to help this team.
Put it this way, if you look objectively at #9 hitters in the AL, there is no reason he can’t be among the Top 4 #9 hitters in the league.
If he is, and defends well, I don’t believe that to be an unrealistic expectation for him.
Since the Yankees will get above average offensive production at C, 1B, 2B, SS, and 3B, they can afford to take a shot with Gardner.
let’s go, you and I usually agree, but I’m pretty certain what Cashman meant that he thinks Gardner is a better CFer than Gardner is a LFer. And therefore Granderson is a consideration of he proves to be as good a LFer as he is a CFer.
I don’t think he’d openly say Gardner is a better CFer than Granderson.
Gardner is best at left bench waiting for that pinch running call. Winn will win the left field job.
stuckey – i love your point about not defining what a “league average” player is. i’ve started doing some research and i found the slash lines on fangraphs for last season.
2009 League average
OBP: .333
SLG: .418
OPS: .751
I’ll go find more.
S.o.S.
February 17th, 2010 at 7:08 pm
lol GB. How much extra is it for those mini light sabre thingies people use for airplanes when landing. It should at least be an option with a 60 day money back guarantee.
————————————————————
I’m sure that Chem-Lites or the coned flashlights are optional accessories…like bags and shoes to complete the ensemble.
Read it again. He didn’t say Gardner is a better CF than Granderson. He said he believes Gardner would be a better CF than LF.
He also said he expects Granderson to be the CF.
GB-
Where I live we usually lose 1 or 2 hikers a year in one particular place. It irks me that more is not done to discourage some of the fools who hike there. Many are completely unprepared for the experience. And your right a little common sense would go a long way to preventing accidents and fatalities.
So im snacking on some NILLA WAFERS. Just wondering when you guys eat them and some go up in your gums. Do you
a. use your tongue to loosen it up?
b. use your finger and suck your finger after?
c. save it up in your gums for later?
I now know how dogs feels after eating some peanut butter.
“Since the Yankees will get above average offensive production at C, 1B, 2B, SS, and 3B, they can afford to take a shot with Gardner.”
I’d argue probably above average in RF and CF as well. I wouldn’t be suprised if they were above average at DH as well.
And Gardner also comes with a fairly easy to swallow pricetag that MIGHT allow the Yanks some financial flexibility mid-season.
LF is a much easier position to play in general so I do not understand how you could say that Gardner is better in CF than he is in LF.
He expects Granderson to be the CF, because he is not certain Gardner is an everyday OF.
He expects Granderson to be the CF, because he is not certain Gardner is an everyday OF.
======
Co-signed
S.o.S-
B
And you should see it when they do it to horses.
Girardi on the starter competition:
“I expect it to play out with great competition.
Joba from The Post article referenced above.
“I’m going in with the mindset that it’s mine,” Chamberlain said recently.
Of course these are just words and ST is about 12 hours old Joba needs to do and say whatever motivates him the most….but i believe there was a disconnect between Joba and the coaching staff last season.
Are they headed down the same road this season?
Erin
February 17th, 2010 at 6:43 pm
Erica aka the other half of the Two-Headed Monster
So, I watched the Sesame Street I had DVRd when I got home. It was the right one-SJP was in it. That’s really weird that she wasn’t in yours.
It was really cute, it opened with her sitting on a bench and she says “My name is Sarah Jessica and I’m waiting for Big”. Super Grover flies (or crashes) down and says he’ll help her, and brings her a big pumpkin. She says that while the pumpkin is big, it’s not the big she’s looking for. He then brings her a big snare drum. Same answer. Then a big rock. Finally, her Big arrives, it’s none other than Big Bird.
*************
That does sound really cute!!!!
So I basically watched (or fast forwarded thru) bizarro Sesame Street. So sad I missed it!
S.o.S.
February 17th, 2010 at 7:15 pm
So im snacking on some NILLA WAFERS. Just wondering when you guys eat them and some go up in your gums. Do you
a. use your tongue to loosen it up?
b. use your finger and suck your finger after?
c. save it up in your gums for later?
*************************
A
MTU
February 17th, 2010 at 7:15 pm
GB-
Where I live we usually lose 1 or 2 hikers a year in one particular place. It irks me that more is not done to discourage some of the fools who hike there. Many are completely unprepared for the experience. And your right a little common sense would go a long way to preventing accidents and fatalities.
————————————————————
As i understand it, in this particular situation, they don’t allow climbers after 3-4 o’clock in the afternoon. The mistake was not only was he within 5 feet of the edge. taking pix of Mt. Rainier, but, he was standing on top of a snow ledge and it gave way. This was the guy’s 60th or more trip up there. Lot of human errors there. Falling 1500 feet or dying of exposure is not a good way to go.
“He expects Granderson to be the CF, because he is not certain Gardner is an everyday OF.”
tri-signed.
“LF is a much easier position to play in general so I do not understand how you could say that Gardner is better in CF than he is in LF. ”
LGY – I think you’re going to have to concede that one. Read it context, it seems pretty clear to a number of people here.
I believe what Cashman might mean is Gardner’s RAW tools (which is what is is about right now, raw tools) are best taken advantage of in CF.
He personally would bring more to the table as CF – his tools would be best exploited – in CF.
Bronx-
I was really pulling for Joba this season because IMO it’s his last chance as a starter.
But I am beginning to wonder if he just doesn’t get it ?
MTU,
I guess we see eye to eye on this dilemma. I was a little embarassed as a 35 year old to just come out and answer the question. C came in a close second.
Im going to do a science project tonight. Im going to have my kids hold our siemeze cat down while i put some peanut butter on her tongue. Never seen a cat eat it before. The only thing that makes me hesitate from doing it is she might like it so much, she stops eating dry food.
And Damon still has no team. Looks like Wifey wants Chicago instead of Detroit. Damon’s wife will decide this one. If moma ain’t happy, nobody’s happy!
Chicago has 1 yr 4.5 M on the table, Boras steered him from 2/14M.
S.o.S.
February 17th, 2010 at 7:15 pm
So im snacking on some NILLA WAFERS. Just wondering when you guys eat them and some go up in your gums. Do you
a. use your tongue to loosen it up?
b. use your finger and suck your finger after?
c. save it up in your gums for later?
I now know how dogs feels after eating some peanut butter.
————————————————————
That’s a little too graphic. It’s easier if you just take your teeth out and suck on the Nilla Wafers until they get soggy and melt away.
When you guys are comparing how a teams bats stack up, you should compare the players spot in the lineups, not the positions. This way you compare the roles those players have to play in the offense, and it is not determined by where they hold their glove in the field.
Wow, still on Gardy.
GB-
“Falling 1500 feet or dying of exposure is not a good way to go.”
You can say that again. Ever read a book called “Between a Rock and a Hard Place”. If not you might like it. Survival story. Deals with some gruesome choices a survivor sometimes has to make.
stuckey,
His tools are his speed, range, etc. Those all would play better in LF than CF.
I could be reading it wrong, but if you read it the way you and a few others have, it does not make any sense.
I think you would be hard pressed to find a player who is better in CF than he is in LF or RF.
“2009 League average
OBP: .333
SLG: .418
OPS: .751″
Which if you allow him some room for growth with just 375 ABs under his belt, and/or adjust his slugging for his speed, is pretty much Brett Gardner (at least the 2009 version).
So the Yankees will have a league average (ish) offensive player batting 9th.
That SHOULD provide some perspective.
Just to chime in… Outfielders who have the tools to play center field usually say center is easier than left or right.
It’s harder to find someone to play center field, but if a player has the skills to do it, it’s easier to get a true read on the ball from that position than from a corner spot.
S.o.S.
February 17th, 2010 at 7:15 pm
So im snacking on some NILLA WAFERS. Just wondering when you guys eat them and some go up in your gums. Do you
a. use your tongue to loosen it up?
b. use your finger and suck your finger after?
c. save it up in your gums for later?
I now know how dogs feels after eating some peanut butter.
*********************
A
GB,
I knew there was an advantage to being old. I wonder if my grandmother will let me use hers to try your theory out?
So Joba thinks the job is his? Sometimes I think he’s way too confident for his own good – I would use another word, but the filter won’t let it go through. If he assumes the job is his, perhaps he won’t work as hard; I’m not saying that’s the case, but I guess I don’t get that mindset. I’m hoping Phil will have something to say about it.
MTU, very sad about the Mt. St Helens hiker.
on that note, I just finished a book called “no shortcuts to the top” by Ed Viesters. Hes the only American to climb all 14 mountains above 8,000 meters. The book is about his adventures in doing that, it was really fascinating if you’re into that sorta thing and really talks at length about how many things can go wrong in the mountains that are totally our of your control.
“I think you would be hard pressed to find a player who is better in CF than he is in LF or RF.”
Well, I think this might simply be a case where Brian Cashman may disagree with you.
As I say, contextually Cashman’s wording lends itself to the alternate impression and even if Cashman believed Gardner is a better CF than Granderson, I can’t imagine any upside to him saying it outloud in the context you contend he did.
MTU,
Not sure if that book is a story of that guy that got stuck up in the mountain when a rock jammed his hand. I saw him in an interview. He said his body went into survival mode and he knew what he had to do. I think i would have done the same thing.
Erica – always OPPC
February 17th, 2010 at 7:20 pm
That does sound really cute!!!!
So I basically watched (or fast forwarded thru) bizarro Sesame Street. So sad I missed it!
*****************
Erica-it’s on You Tube!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFAE4tx22eA
I have a question:
OPS is literally OBP plus SLG. I mean, they literally add the two numbers together. Why do they do this?
S.o.S.
February 17th, 2010 at 7:29 pm
GB,
I knew there was an advantage to being old. I wonder if my grandmother will let me use hers to try your theory out?
*************
Thanks so much for putting that image in my head.
OK, research complete.
the 2009 MLB League Average player, calculated for a 600AB season.(data ripped from http://www.baseball-reference......ting.shtml)
R: 74
RBI: 71
H: 142
2B: 28
3B: 3
HR: 17
SB: 11
BB: 52
SO: 104
AVG: .266
OBP: .335
SLG: .426
OPS: .760
Now, which one of those stats, other than HR’s, will ANY of our guys(gardener/winn/thames) have trouble accomplishing? This is to be a league average player. Keep in mind that most teams employ some starters that are BELOW average. Also, a player with this stat line would never bat ninth for any other team but ours. I’d imagine a player with this stat line would be roughly a 7 hitter on most teams.
This is what we are worried about, and freaking out over today. I’ll post this again tomorrow morning at some point, so everyone can see it.
repost for link:
http://www.baseball-reference......ting.shtml
MTU
February 17th, 2010 at 7:27 pm
GB-
“Falling 1500 feet or dying of exposure is not a good way to go.”
You can say that again. Ever read a book called “Between a Rock and a Hard Place”. If not you might like it. Survival story. Deals with some gruesome choices a survivor sometimes has to make.
————————————————————
Haven’t read or heard of the book, but, sounds interesting. I did read about a rock climber in Colorado, I think, that fell and broke his arm and the arm was a full break, but a huge boulder had rolled on it and had him pinned for a couple of days. He finally used a pocket knife to amputate his arm to get free. It saved his life. This happened a couple of years ago.
“So Joba thinks the job is his? Sometimes I think he’s way too confident for his own good – I would use another word, but the filter won’t let it go through. If he assumes the job is his, perhaps he won’t work as hard; I’m not saying that’s the case, but I guess I don’t get that mindset. I’m hoping Phil will have something to say about it.”
Confucius said whether you think you can or whether you think you can’t, you’re right.
So what’s Joba supposed to say? I like the fact that he’s confident in his abilities.
Looks like I am going to have to concede my stance here as I seem to be standing alone on an island regarding the reading of that quote.
If that is what Cashman is saying then I have to do some editing to my first post on this page and take out the part about Cashman saying that he thinks Gardner is better in CF than Granderson
Blake-
Thanks. And I know from personal experience the dangers. Good preparation as in so many things mitigates the dangers. But you are absolutely right there are uncontrollables, or X factors.
I believe Ed Viesturs has climbed Everest without extra oxygen – amazing. What happened? A climber died on Mt. Ranier?
“Falling 1500 feet or dying of exposure is not a good way to go.”
Personally, I think I’d prefer to fall 1500 feet.
GB-
That’s his story, and that crazy SOB still climbs ! He has more than 9 lives.
Thanks so much for putting that image in my head.
=======
Erin,
Dont worry. My grandmother puts clean water in her cup every night. Its all good.
“I believe Ed Viesturs has climbed Everest without extra oxygen – amazing. What happened? A climber died on Mt. Ranier?”
hes actually climbed Everst 7 times, 6 without oxygen and all other mountains about 8,000 feet without oxygen including K2.
Tom,
Well done!
Making the entire Brett Gardner debate on here today much ado about nothing! LOL
Great research and I definitely re-post for the morning crowd tomorrow.
S.o.S.
February 17th, 2010 at 7:38 pm
Thanks so much for putting that image in my head.
=======
Erin,
Dont worry. My grandmother puts clean water in her cup every night. Its all good.
****************
Oh, OK. That’s better
Blake, wow.
I know his name because I believe he was on one of the expeditions on Everest in May of 1996 when all those people died. I can’t imagine anything worse than dying a long, slow, lonely death on a mountain top…..gives me shivers
I **would** definitely re-post. Sorry for the typo.
Hopefully, the nightly “Fire Cashman, the season is over” posters who are on here at night read your research. They might learn something.
MTU, here’s the link to his story.
http://aronralston.blogspot.com/
Betsy-
“gives me shivers”
Quite an unintended pun Betsy !
There was a reality show about Everest. Whats more amazing is how those little guys(forgot what they call them)that carry the gear have to do it on a regular basis. Isnt what they accomplish a notch higher than the regular climbers? They have to carry most of the load up that mountain. I never knew that the brain plays tricks on you in that high altitude. Alot of those guys had to quit only going a third of the way.
Betsy, yea he was on Everest in 96. He was on the team filming the IMAX movie about Everest. In reading his books, its crazy how many of his friends and people he has climbed with have died while climbing. 2 of them died on Everest in 96.
Tom B -
Thanks for posting that information. It really is helpful.
You guys are amazing-
My idea of hiking is taking a walk to buy coffee
Doreen
February 17th, 2010 at 7:32 pm
I have a question:
OPS is literally OBP plus SLG. I mean, they literally add the two numbers together. Why do they do this?
———————–
It is just an easier way to value a player’s overall worth than looking at OBP and SLG separate. They are both very important individually, but when combined you get a better understanding over the player overall abilities in relation to other players in the league. Which at the end of the is what really matters when building a team.
I do not know if you care, but OPS is actually heavily criticized as flawed. It values OBP and SLG equally which does not make sense given the scales and what goes into the individual evaluation of SLG and OBP. In regard to OPS it is heavily skewed towards power hitters.
A much better statistic is wOBA, which weights OBP on a greater scale than SLG. You can find it over at fangraphs btw. If you want more info on wOBA I can post it.
OPS+ is better than OPS as well because it gives greater weight to OBP, but probably still not enough.
R: 74
RBI: 71
H: 142
2B: 28
3B: 3
HR: 17
SB: 11
BB: 52
SO: 104
AVG: .266
OBP: .335
SLG: .426
OPS: .760
======
We can thank those cheap teams that dont spend money on players and rather have minor league rosters in the majors to thank for the watered down league avg. You know the teams im talking about.
But I do still have that question: Why do they add the two stats together, OBP and SLG. What’s the significance? What does it tell you that is different than each stat alone?
Erin
February 17th, 2010 at 7:31 pm
Erica – always OPPC
February 17th, 2010 at 7:20 pm
That does sound really cute!!!!
So I basically watched (or fast forwarded thru) bizarro Sesame Street. So sad I missed it!
*****************
Erica-it’s on You Tube!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFAE4tx22eA
*******************
Thank you!!!!!!!!!!
I def need to watch when I get home from work tonight
“hes actually climbed Everst 7 times, 6 without oxygen…”
Should read without “supplemental” oxygen.
You can’t do jack squat without oxygen. Except die of course.
Gb-
That’s a nice summary but the book is much more detailed of course, and the personal element contained therein is gut-wrenching, and very moving. After reading the book I concluded that Aaron just had a death wish. he defied death on numerous ocassions before that.
“Whats more amazing is how those little guys(forgot what they call them)that carry the gear have to do it on a regular basis. Isnt what they accomplish a notch higher than the regular climbers? ”
They are called Sherpas. They can perform much better than normal people in part because they live at such high altitudes there whole lives and their bodies are acclimated to it and carry more hemoglobin in their blood (carries oxygen) so they can better deal with the thin air. They get no credit but take huge risks dragging the people on that show up the mountain.
Erica – always OPPC
February 17th, 2010 at 7:47 pm
You guys are amazing-
My idea of hiking is taking a walk to buy coffee
***************
My thoughts exactly
MTU, Freudian slip? Ouch – I didn’t mean that.
Blake, a famous Russian climber (Anatoly ?) died a few years after that………It’s not surprising, unfortunately. There is great risk in what they do. The Everest story is really a tragedy and Into Thin Air is a great book about that tragedy. If I recall, a few years after that, Viesturs and the IMAX team found the body of George Mallory…….
Dice-k tweeked his back on Friday, sawx holding their breath.
.
Heyman on twitter, says Yankees, Cubs, and Rays possible suitors for Chan Ho Park
“Should read without “supplemental” oxygen.
You can’t do jack squat without oxygen. Except die of course.”
haha, yes supplemental O2 is what I meant.
let’s go yankees -
Thanks – obviously, I didn’t see your response – we crossed in cyberspace, I guess.
I’ll probably have to read your answer a couple of times while actually looking at the data for it to make total sense to me.
wOBA – weighted on base average?
Thank you Blake. Sherpas should get more of the credit than the climbers. Even if they are better fit for the enviroment.
“Blake, a famous Russian climber (Anatoly ?) died a few years after that………It’s not surprising, unfortunately. There is great risk in what they do. The Everest story is really a tragedy and Into Thin Air is a great book about that tragedy. If I recall, a few years after that, Viesturs and the IMAX team found the body of George Mallory…….”
Yea I’ve read “Into Thin Air” John Krakauer was on that expedition as well. I think you are right about Viesters helping find Mallory who could have been the first to climb Everest although we will never know because he died on the descent.
Blake-
“They get no credit but take huge risks dragging the people on that show up the mountain.”
Hillary’s Sherpa got lot’s of credit but your right most toil in obscurity.
Doreen,
Yes, weighted on base average.
Now that I put OPS+ and wOBA on the table, I can tell you about wRC+.
wRC+ uses wOBA data and puts in on an OPS+ scale (OPS+ takes into account park effects) and puts it in a easy to understand 100 point scale.
For wRC+, 100 is average just like OPS+ but it uses better data (wOBA) to get to its number. wRC+ is on fangraphs, and IMO and I would say most sabermetrically inclined, the best and most accurate of these statistics.
Doreen – I think the answer you seek is “because they are lazy”. It’s more for quick reference than anything else, but a bad batter won’t be able to sneak their OPS over .750-.800, so it gives you an easy(and again, lazy) cutoff point.
S.o.S. – I was thinking about how watered down that is too, but I think it still holds as a decent reference point. The difference is that we are worrying about that guy in our 9-spot, where those teams that drag down the average are using that same player in the 2 or 5 hole. If I could figure out the league average for the 8 or 9 spot, It would be almost half these numbers and probably a good 20-25 points off the avg stats.
So, I hear about OBP all the time now. It really is mentioned every baseball game. To my understanding, it reflects a player’s ability to get on base, but specifically targets his ability to work walks.
SLG, as you say is a power hitter stat. The bigger the number, the more HRs you probably hit. But what if all you do is hit a HR or strikeout? Then how valuable are you?
Is that where the weighted stats you mention come in?
What is the “plus” in OPS+?
MTU, you’re right about Hilary’s Sherpa but many times throughout history Sherpas have died on expeditions and are never even mentioned or summitted mountains and never mentioned. Sad.
My idea of hiking is taking a walk to buy coffee
***************
My thoughts exactly
=======
My daily hike consists of climbing up the stairs to go to bed. Sometimes bare footed and going to the extreme by skipping some steps on the way.
wOBA includes walks?
MTU, that would take a lot of guts to do that. I’m amazed that he wasn’t found before 5 days, though. Even more surprised that he knew enough first aid to realize that the arm had “died”. Still takes guts to do it on yourself. even in my field, I’m not sure that I could do it and don’t know anyone else that could. I suppose that’s a decision to be made when you actually face it. My hats off to him.
Gb-
If you knew the area you’d understand why.
He really should have been carrying a PLB, and should not have made a spontaneous decision to change his hiking plans.
A cardinal sin for a hiker. It almost cost him his life.
Tom,
Thats a good point. If we do take the 8th or 9th hitter, it would deffinately look even worse. I say just put the best team you can out there and see what you got. IMO, Gardner is better suited for the pinch role. His infield track power didnt do it for me. That and him having velcro on his shoulder not swinging at pitches middle of the plate. I hope he proves me and some here wrong.
I cant immagine them getting Winn for defensive replacement purposes.
Chad – thanks a lot for the audio. I am thrilled to listen to it. I know Girardi did not say much but looking out at the snow on the ground the audio was like a breath of spring. And as far as I am concerned listening to the whole interview is better than listening to truncated bits.
Doreen,
You’re certainly learning a lot about these stats today.
OPS+ really compares one players OPS to the average player.
An OPS+ of 100 is average.
ERA+ does the same thing with regards to pitchers.
These stats also take into effect the park played in and the era(as in time) played in. I think. Somebody else must know more than me but anyway they’re a quick and easy way to see where a player stacks up compared to the average player.
Do they adjust the league OBP every season?
I’m not sure that I could do it and don’t know anyone else that could.
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Im not an expert at this, but its amazing what your body does to stay alive. Look at the movie ALIVE, where they became canibals or that movie(true story) with the actor in batman where his plane gets shot down in veitnam(i believe)and get captured, goes to a camp. To then escape and survive in the jungles. You mind will make you do whatever it takes to survive.
“SLG, as you say is a power hitter stat. The bigger the number, the more HRs you probably hit. But what if all you do is hit a HR or strikeout? Then how valuable are you?”
SLG measures total bases. You basically get the most points for hitting HRs, then triples…So yeah if you hit a lot of HRs your SLG will be high because you get the most points on the scale.
But, you asked how valuable are you if you just hit HRs or strike out. That is why SLG is not a great by itself, because it does not tell you nearly enough about a player. That is why OPS is important because it combines two very important things about a player, that are not great indications of their overall ability individually.
However, then you run into the problem of OPS being flawed by weighing OBP and SLG equally, so that is why we use the more advanced statistics to weigh OBP greater and make the statistic more accurate.
That is where wOBA comes in because it is just a different way to combine SLG and OBP (so walks go into wOBA because they go into OBP).
But, wOBA does not take into account park effects and while OPS+ does they still do not give enough weight to OBP.
Which is why we finally arrive at wRC+. It takes OBP and SLG. It combines them, but weighs OBP greater like it should. Then it puts it on a scale like OPS+ to adjust for park factors and have an easy to work with scale where 100 is league average (just like OPS+)
(The exact explanation can get a lot more mathematical and complicated which I can post if you want but trying to keep it as simple as possible)
“Just to chime in… Outfielders who have the tools to play center field usually say center is easier than left or right.”
more real estate before you run into the wall, eh?
Bronx Jeers
“Trying” to learn about some stats.
In that regard, I just took a little “hike” over to fangraphs. Let’s just say I was in over my head by the second sentence! Definitely not ready for the deep end.
Thanks to everyone for the help.
You get a truer read in CF of the ball off the bat unless its hit directly at you then it becomes tough to tell whether to come in or go back (what Gardner has trouble with sometimes) and you don’t have to deal with the hooks and slices as much in CF as LF and especially RF.
And here we used to put the worst player on the little league team in right rather than having him play an easier position center. Bone headed call.
So did you guys take a course in this or is it self-taught?
And how long before you really understood some of these more, as I call them, esoteric of the data?
S.o.S., the story of Bat-21 (LTC Iceal Hambleton) was quite a story. Not so much because of Hambleton’s survival, but, because of the Navy leutenent that rescued him. That was the true hero of that operation. The entire rescue cost 5 aircraft being shot down and over 20 guys being killed, not to mention the 10 other aircraft that were shot up so badly that they were scrapped to rescue one guy. Norris (rescuer) won the CMH and his South Vietnamese helper won the Navy Cross. Not sure that it was worth the cost, regardless of his value. That’s a high price that would be tough to live with.
GB,
Just found the name of the movie. It didnt come out long ago. RESCUE DAWN. It stars Christian Bale and its a true story about a guy named Dengler. Good movie.
According to what Mantle, Murcer and Bernie Williams said about playing center field is that you can’t see the batter when playing straight up, because the crown of the infield and mound blocks the view, meaning that he’s the last defender to see the ball.
S.o.S, haven’t heard of that movie. I don’t usually go to movies about Vietnam or the Desert Storm conflicts. Most of them are too poorly down, or just flat out incorrect. Maybe I was too close to those things.
too poorly down
Correction:
too poorly ***done***
Most of the Sherpa’s don’t go all the way up, which is why they don’t get the recognition.
Norgay climbed to the top with Hillary, which is why he gets the recognition along with Sir Edmond.
The Sherpas are pretty incredible, but they also live at a high altitude which helps them adjust to the climb faster than those going on the expeditions. Everyone carries gear, though. Even if the Sherpas carry more than others do.
lets go yankees-
Thanks for the tip on wRC+, gonna use that in Fantasy BB league. I noticed Fangraphs has that stat plus others on their player profiles, could be a nice advantage for me.
Doreen-
Just admit it, you have been going to sabermetrics meetings
Doreen,
Don’t mistake me for a sabremetician because I’d be as lost as you over at fangraphs.
I know the basics and that suits me fine.
And I don’t have anything against those who enjoy these advanced stats except when they bully others when trying to make a case.
Finally getting ready to leave work!!
Bye for now
“We can thank those cheap teams that dont spend money on players and rather have minor league rosters in the majors to thank for the watered down league avg. You know the teams im talking about.”
Are you suggesting if those teams were willing to spend more they’re be a large body of better players in the major leagues?
What players are we talking about exactly? Where is this large body of players playing if not in the major leagues?
“Most of the Sherpa’s don’t go all the way up, which is why they don’t get the recognition.”
Many times because they weren’t allowed to. Its commonplace now on Everest that Sherpas climb the mountain before anyone else each Spring to fix ropes for the guided expeditions to clip to. The record for summits on Everest is held by a Sherpa (Apa Sherpa ) and I think its 19 times.
If the league average is watered down, so is every player’s accomplishment in MLB. That’s really, really strained um, logic.
Bronx Jeers -
Gotcha.
I went back over there (fangraphs).
There is information there that would take months to understand (maybe – MAYBE – I exaggerate) if you haven’t been following that staff from inception. So, when people who live and breath that stuff make an argument here to support a position, there is no way the average person here is going to be persuaded. it’s an entirely different language, way beyond what’s absolutely necessary to follow baseball, and even beyond what’s absolutely necessary to compare players. Is it more exact? Probably. But not helpful if no one else in the room gets the nuances.
Definitely can see how contract negotiations and arbitration hearings can get very hairy, though, with each side picking and choosing minutiae with which to support their opposing arguments.
I can see how it is heaven for people who love finding mathematical relationships/explanations.
Fangraphs does assume that the person going there knows what they’re doing. Not the place for self-instruction.
I can also see how it might get addictive (fangraphs, that is).
OK, so I bought Baseball Prospectus 2010. Some numbers:
Gardner/Projected 2010:
Breakout: 14% Improve: 44% Collapse: 10% Attrition: 9%
434 Plate Appearances; 266 avg; 356 OBP; 378 SLG; 13.4 VORP; 1.5 WARP. His defense is projected at 98-CF 0, which according to BP means he’ll see 98 games in CF and save no runs more than the average CF with his glove.
Comparables: Mookie Wilson, Kenny Lofton, Alex Sanchez, Joey Gathright (all when they were Gardner’s present age).
In short, BP sees him as a sometime LF, with a valuable bench role.
Meanwhile, if Gardner puts up a .356 OBP and a .378 SLG, he will virtually match the production of an AL league average CF in 2009 (.734 OPS v. .732 OPS).
This was a good interview. It could have used a little more in depth ???