Yankees lining up rotation
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Feb 20, 2010 
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Joe Girardi was careful to point out that these plans can change between now and opening day, but as of right now, the Yankees plan to go with CC Sabathia, A.J. Burnett, Andy Pettitte and Javier Vazquez – in that order — as their first four starters of the regular season.
Because the Yankees have an off day between their first game in Boston and their second game in Boston, Burnett will throw his first spring training bullpen on Monday. None of the top four starters will throw a bullpen on Sunday.
Also, slight change to the exhibition schedule rotation.
Sabathia will start the second game of spring training, March 4 against the Phillies. The spring opener on March 3 will likely go to one of the starters battling for the fifth spot in the rotation.
“Very possible that we could get those guys in there,” Girardi said. “One of the five, or two of the five.”
———
The picture is of Girardi in the bullpen with director of player development, Pat Roessler.
Joe loves his Lefty/Righty/Lefty thing.
Breaking up the lefties and righties is the only way to go. It helps that not one of the pitchers throw like the others.
I’m glad that Javy’s first start back as a Yankee will not be in Fenway.
This pic from Hoch made me smile:
http://twitpic.com/14d3t7
Goodness>Handedness.
Phil, what rotation would you like to see?
Just popping in before I go watch my other favorite team in their desperate hunt for an NCAA tournament invite. I see folks are back on the old stats-guts argument.
When I was a kid I pretty much thought a ballplayer’s offensive worth was summed in BA, HR and RBI. Never occurred to me that the ability to draw a walk was important, I pretty much thought a walk was a pitcher’s mistake than a batter’s ability. Didn’t really occur to me that you didn’t necessarily have to have your shortstop or second baseman at the top of the lineup (I mean Tony Kubek and Bobby Richardson were at the top of the Yankee’s lineup, right?), and it never occurred to me that maybe a guy hitting .285 with no walks wasn’t maybe the best guy to lead off. It never occurred to me that moving the runner over with a bunt maybe wasn’t the best play. I thought it was exciting and admirable for the starting pitcher who was clearly gassed to try to finish out the game, trying to do that made him heroic to my young eyes. And for defense, well you knew Brooks Robinson was really great and his fielding was important, and you knew you’d rather have a better glove than Dr. Strangeglove had, but in between you didn’t really know how important defense was and you didn’t much care.
And I wasn’t the only one who felt that way, those kinds of beliefs were fairly common even among pro players, coaches and owners.
Like him or hate him, it was really Bill James who made us start examining those beliefs in a systematic way. Before that, there were some baseball geniuses like Casey Stengel who understood intuitively many of the things James started working out through math, but the fact is they were the exception, not the rule.
So things have moved along to where now people take the importance of OBP and SLG for granted, and maybe even things like runs created, and people are starting to understand the nuanced importance of defense and how to measure defensive contributions in the same terminology as offensive contributions.
UZR and pitchfx are just more steps along the road, they are going to be continually refined and improved and in five years people will think attacking those kind of measurements is archaic.
In the meantime, I’d say use UZR for what it is, a relatively accurate but somewhat imprecise means of comparing one fielder to another, which is otherwise very hard to do because we just don’t see enough of the Giants’ shortstop and the Royals’ shortstop, to really compare them in any meaningful way.
OK, the game is starting, see you later.
” I do have a question for you or somebody that actually knows without looking at a formula. Why is it that other than Mike Marshall and maybe one or two others, why are most screwballers left handed?”
gb7
the simple answer is that left handed pitchers tend towards being screwballs.
so why not throw one?
actually i don’t know the answer to that. what other left handers threw a screwball?
PaulF
Probably Vazquez 3rd to start out, though he may well be our second best starter this year.
GB7
Found this.
http://pitchingprofessor.com/A.....WBALL.html
Now I’m reminded of my youth, when the Giants’ Ruben Gomez was invariably described as a screwball pitcher (only in the sense that he threw screwballs.) BTW Gomez was a righty
Phil -o
But don’t you want the matchup of a Vazquez (basically a #2 or #3 starter) going against the #4 of the other team?
I think Roger McDowell threw the screwball.
GB,
“A screwball is essentially a reverse curveball. While a curveball, unless thrown straight overhand, tends to break away from a same handed batter, a screwball tends to break toward a same handed batter and away from an opposite handed batter. This reverse motion is especially useful for left handed pitchers, so it’s unsurprising that a disproportionate share of screwball pitchers were left-handed.”
It seems it’s because the ball breaks away from RH hitters.
http://www.baseball-reference....../Screwball
GreenBeret7
February 20th, 2010 at 1:46 pm
If you don’t stop acting like you have all of the answers to life and everything can be explained by a formula, you’ll never reach our age.
——————————
I have always maintained a 50/50 split (or at least something close to that) between numbers and scouting
Doreen,
Not if it means matching up our 4 with most team’s 3.
randy,
What did Ben say about Bernie that makes you feel that way
The regular season rotation only really matters for about two weeks into the season. Then the matchups get so screwed up that it doesn’t matter. What you would hope though, is that Girardi starts the second best pitcher second in the playoffs, no matter who it is.
Phil -
So you consider Andy a #4, then?
” I do have a question for you or somebody that actually knows without looking at a formula. Why is it that other than Mike Marshall and maybe one or two others, are most screwballers left handed?”
doreen-
nice link. mike cuellar was on the list.
when i caught him in the bullpen and he threw that first screwball i really just stopped in my tracks.
he was almost 50 years old at that time and the pitch was such a thing of beauty i knew he had to be someone special.
i had never seen that pitch before or have i since.
i can still see the really defined spin that froze me as it probably froze hitters in his prime.
but what i remember is he threw about five different pitches for strikes.
and that he was very humble and a very nice guy.
randy l.
February 20th, 2010 at 2:11 pm
” I do have a question for you or somebody that actually knows without looking at a formula. Why is it that other than Mike Marshall and maybe one or two others, why are most screwballers left handed?”
gb7
the simple answer is that left handed pitchers tend towards being screwballs.
so why not throw one?
actually i don’t know the answer to that. what other left handers threw a screwball?
————————————————————
Marshall and Jim Mecir from the right side and Hubbell, Mathewson, Valenzuela, McGraw, from the left side, though there were a lot of others.
That’s probably the order it will start out and that’s how it should be but I won’t be a bit surprised if we see Vazquez starting Game 2 of the ALDS.
Tom in NJ
February 20th, 2010 at 2:16 pm
GB,
“A screwball is essentially a reverse curveball. While a curveball, unless thrown straight overhand, tends to break away from a same handed batter, a screwball tends to break toward a same handed batter and away from an opposite handed batter. This reverse motion is especially useful for left handed pitchers, so it’s unsurprising that a disproportionate share of screwball pitchers were left-handed.”
It seems it’s because the ball breaks away from RH hitters.
http://www.baseball-reference&...../Screwball
————————————————————
Interesting. I always likened it to a fast curve (like a slider) only with a reverse break to it. Something new for me, today.
randy l -
Cuellar was on the Orioles – was he on that team when the had the 4 20-game winners?
To still be able to throw impressively at 50 – wow!
I went back to look at that link – the list of pitchers. Did you notice, because I didn’t the first time around – that they had Tug McGraw listed as from the NY Giants?????
Never mind that he never pitched for any Giants, but at the time he pitched, the Giants were in SF.
So, maybe even though this was put together by “a former pitcher in the Red Sox organization,” we should be somewhat skeptical of the info??
(I just figured with that pedigree it would be more reliable than Wikipedia.)
“What did Ben say about Bernie that makes you feel that way”
let’s go yankees-
basically that bernie had been taking up space for a long time.
if you remember , it was a very contentious debate when cashman wouldn’t give bernie a mlb contract.
without rehashing it, i felt that some young punk who probably never played the game should show a little respect for a yankee great in the twilight of his career.
not that i still hold a grudge or anything
“And there is plenty of condescension going on on both sides of the aisle, if I may say so.”
Precisely Doreen. This is a tactic of the political right in this country. They systematically lay claim to knowing exactly how government should or shouldn’t work, dismiss any and all theory otherwise, but very astutely (from a marketing standpoint), stake claim to representing the “average” salt of the earth type, who learns from hard work and experience, rather than intellectual pursuit. They label anyone who disagrees with them as arrogant, self-important, over-educated “elitists” who condescend to anyone who doesn’t agree with them.
Its a transparent, but wholly effective tactic (the public eats it up) that has permeated the public discourse in all areas of life and debate. As this forum clearly demonstrates.
“If delving into the newer statistic is something a person enjoys doing, great; but it really is okay if someone doesn’t.”
Agreed.
It’s the denying of the value of newer stats that leads to the back-and-forth.
As I will get to another post. I have NO problem if someone “believes” the universe and earth is 4000 years old. To each their own. When I have a problem is when of these people can look you in the eye and in all seriousness deny carbon dating as “theory”, “junk science” or atheist “elitists” committing mass fraud upon the public.
Believe what you like, ever human being has that right and I’d fight for that belief with every fiber of my being, but just don’t argue against truths and insult and dismiss those trying to provide them.
Doreen
February 20th, 2010 at 2:14 pm
GB7
Found this.
http://pitchingprofessor.com/A…..WBALL.html
————————————————————
Thanks for the link, Doreen. I always knew that I sould only throw about two or three pitches and this wasn’t one of them. Maybe this is what people mean when they tell me that I’m not flexabole. Just trying to turn my wrist/hand inwards is painfull. I can’t imagine throwing a baseball like that.
I’m not ***flexable***
Doreen,
Andy’s ERA+ last year was 103. So, yeah, he’s getting down to average. Javy’s was 143 which they believe is largely due to an improved slider, and that’s darn good.
Isn’t it the other side of the problem when people insist that the new way is best? That only they have all the answers because a formula says so…flawed or not? You don’t like being told that the numbers mean nothing, but, have no problem telling everyone else why they mean everything. Sounds pretty “elitist” to me. And since when is it your place to educate everybody..or anybody for that matter?
Just realized I had my days mixed up. None of the top four starters will throw a bullpen on Sunday. Burnett will throw his first bullpen on Monday. Sorry about the mix up. Is it bad that I’m four days into spring training and already getting my days confused?
it’s flexible. just so you know.
sorry, I’m a bit up tight about correct spelling.
I think this is the most pumped I’ve been for a Yankee season ever.
it’s ok Chad, I rarely know what day of the week it is.
Jim Mecir was the last right-hander I remember who threw a screwball.
Again, all things being equal, Javy is the key to the season.
A perfect example of how dangerous flawed formulas can be. Being on an artillary firing range and using a new and improved computer that figures exact firing data for a 100 pound shell fired from 20 miles away. Using the “new and improved data” they missed the target by 800 meters and shot out of the safety zone. It sprayed shrapnel all over a church. after the investigators discovered the problem, the calculations were figured manually and was within 10 meters of the target.
The formulas for the new computer were worked out by mathameticians. The problem? They didn’t include 2 very important things…the rotation of the earth and the wrong charge.
“Is it bad that I’m four days into spring training and already getting my days confused?”
Well, if you’re still able to differentiate specific days of the week, you’re probably alright.
doreen -
i think that was a typo on mcgraw when they meant the ny mets.
despite the fact the guy was a former red sox i bookmarked the site. it looks good.
gb7-
i read mike marshall’s thoughts on pronating( turning the doorknob counterclockwise when throwing) and tried it out and liked it. i’ve been using that approach for the last fifteen years or so and my arm doesn’t bother me at all when i throw 50-100 pitches as hard as i can. i have a net and a milk crate of balls)
personally i think it works, but i have no evidence of that except my own experience.
i didn’t worry about trying it out because at my age what did i have to lose.
i wouldn’t tell a kid to do it though without knowing more.
it is odd how much resistance there is to marshall.
Randy, yes, I’m FAR more an experienced player as I am a sabremetrcian, which of which I’m not much of at all. But that has little bearing on anything I’ve ever argued.
If you put me at SS and Keith Law at 2nd, put a man on second base with nobody out, I don’t doubt that I’d reflexively better respond better to the endless variations of where a ball is hit and how hard. THAT’s the value of years of experience.
But if Keith Law wants to analyze hundreds of thousands of major league AB to tell me something like which has offers the greater probability of scoring a run with a man on second and no out, sacrificing or hitting anyway, I’d consider the information and appreciate the contribution to the body of knowledge to draw from.
That’s what this is about. Experience and stats aren’t mutually exclusive pursuits, they’re complimentary.
But as I touched on with Doreen, the reason this issue resonates with me has little to specifically with baseball. It’s simply and obvious pattern of human behavior repeating itself.
WHENEVER intellectual types challenges conventional wisdom, or attempt to add NEW relevant information to the puzzle, the new data, observations and theory and those advancing them are almost always dismissed and ridiculed by some group of another. Grade school level history teaches us this.
From the beginning of time to 1 minute ago, the pattern repeats itself over and over again.
The “debate” I cited to Doreen is one of the most obvious ones.
Now new ideas are almost never perfect out of the gate. There are missteps and mistakes are made. There are PEOPLE who misuse the new knowledge and those who use it to advance personal agenda. But over time, we eventually do learn things we didn’t know before and improve upon the things we always thought we knew.
If anyone thinks the analysis of how the game of baseball is played is somehow immune to this simple human truism is shouting at the rain.
We have and will continue to learn new ways of observing baseball that will positively contribute to our understanding and as a result, execution of it.
Denying this is a pure folly.
antisocial scrooge
February 20th, 2010 at 2:50 pm
it’s flexible. just so you know.
sorry, I’m a bit up tight about correct spelling.
————————————————————
Nobody asked you.
sorry, but, I’m a little uptight about imperfect people butting in.
randy i
gb7-
i read mike marshall’s thoughts on pronating( turning the doorknob counterclockwise when throwing) and tried it out and liked it. i’ve been using that approach for the last fifteen years or so and my arm doesn’t bother me at all when i throw 50-100 pitches as hard as i can. i have a net and a milk crate of balls)
personally i think it works, but i have no evidence of that except my own experience.
i didn’t worry about trying it out because at my age what did i have to lose.
i wouldn’t tell a kid to do it though without knowing more.
it is odd how much resistance there is to marshall.
————————————————————
Randy, I’ve never figured out that about Marshall, either…especially with the younger and more progressive GMs and managers. He learned an entirely new way to pitch and did things that no other ever did. If I’m hal steinbrenner and Brian Cashman, my fanny is in the car and heading to Zephyrhills, Florida to hire him to start teaching the kids in the system, starting tomorrow.
I wonder if the new progressives aren’t a little afraid of Mike Marshall.
stuckey -
Whew!
I’m one of those people who don’t have any problem acknowledging that God created the universe, but that it probably took more than 7 man-defined “days,” and that there is no contradiction between evolution and a God-created world. And one who scratches their head at the idea of people having no problem with Adam and Eve being the parents of the whole world, but not seeing the inherent “difficulties” in that theory, particularly as weighed against the taboos of a civilized society.
Anyhoo -
There is value in both observing what’s in front of your eye and in using historical data to anticipate and prepare. But in either case, you have to leave room for doubt and neither is absolute.
Wave had a terrific post earlier about how some of the newer statistical data has enhanced appreciation for some aspects of the game that totally flew under the radar in years past (for most people). I think, sometimes, it comes down to feeling like baseball is being reduced to “alphabet soup” and that gets confusing and annoying, particulary when people throw out acronyms so freely. It took a few years for OBP to catch on to the point that people now take it for granted as one more legitimate aspect of evaluation a player’s overall performance (not to mention, easily identifying what OBP stands for).
The VORP stuff, I think the value lies more in putting a team together. And for people who enjoy “playing GM” (nothing inherently wrong in that), it’s fine. Me, well, sometimes it’s just nice to know what the heck the acronyms mean. (That’s part of the problem – speaking in saberese in mixed company. English is the preferred language.
)
Years ago, I used to post on NYYFans that the Yankees should fire Stottlemyre and hire Mike Marshall. It never went over very well.
GreenBeret7
February 20th, 2010 at 2:57 pm
A perfect example of how dangerous flawed formulas can be. Being on an artillary firing range and using a new and improved computer that figures exact firing data for a 100 pound shell fired from 20 miles away. Using the “new and improved data” they missed the target by 800 meters and shot out of the safety zone. It sprayed shrapnel all over a church. after the investigators discovered the problem, the calculations were figured manually and was within 10 meters of the target.
The formulas for the new computer were worked out by mathameticians. The problem? They didn’t include 2 very important things…the rotation of the earth and the wrong charge.
———————————-
Even if someone were to accept this as relevant since it has nothing to do with baseball formulas, there are COUNTLESS examples of the failures and dangers of human observation and judgment.
“I wonder if the new progressives aren’t a little afraid of Mike Marshall.”
gb7-
a dinosaur with a doctorate can be a scary thing
It’s a simple case of not putting out flawed information as fact until the flaws are removed.
randy l -
You don’t think the people who put the thing together were thinking of John McGraw? (He was a manager for the NY Giants, wasnt’ he?)
Is there anything more “flawed” in history as human observation and judgment?
randy l.
February 20th, 2010 at 3:11 pm
“I wonder if the new progressives aren’t a little afraid of Mike Marshall.”
gb7-
a dinosaur with a doctorate can be a scary thing
————————————————————
I guess so. I always thought he took what limited skills he possessed as a pitcher as far as anybody could take them. Really, he’s not any different than Sandy Koufax. Both studied the same thing…motion and the value of pullies and leverages. Koufax did his on the mound first is all.
GB7 – Exactly.
Nothing wrong with new methods, but before they are accepted as standard, they need to “stand” the test of time.
“Oops we’re a little off” is of no real consequence for fans discussing the value of a player; it can be a big deal for a manager during a game, a GM in deciding to pay a player several million dollars, or as in your example, targeting something way out of range that ends up doing worse damage.
“Even if someone were to accept this as relevant since it has nothing to do with baseball formulas, there are COUNTLESS examples of the failures and dangers of human observation and judgment.”
It happens in courtrooms every day. Issues with perception, memory, and the way we encode information can skew anyone’s ability to accurately relate what they saw.
They put Javy at #4 because they want Joba or Phil to be in between their innings eaters (CC & Javy). That way, the pen should not be overused if the #5 struggles (and they will be up and down of their youth).
Javy is one of the keys to 2010 but that doesnt mean he has to duplicate last yr. If he’s league avg (and i think he’ll be better than that) and throws 200 innings he’ll be a major improvement over 2009.
Human beings have failed far more than science, mathematics, or any computer even could.
There is also serious bias in asserting that b/c some statistics have their flaws, every statistic does. Not to mention asserting they are flawed without saying why.
*ever* not even
LGY, there are plenty of examples of both. I enjoy GB’s war stories; you (perhaps) do not. Relevant? We’re talking relevance to flaws in formulae/observation(s). I find GB’s comment relevant. You seem to have a personal issue with GB. Why?
“Nothing wrong with new methods, but before they are accepted as standard, they need to “stand” the test of time.”
Conversely, a lot of old methods have not withstood the test of time, yet they are still used by people that refuse to accept that these methods have been supplanted, and that applies to non-baseball issues as well.
Okay, guys, I need a little help.
I just upgraded my cellphone from a 5-year old Motorola flip, to a iPhone 3GS. One of the big draws was to be able to watch live Yankee games, via the web.
So….How do I do this? What do I have to do? I am a 20th Century guy, and have no clue, other than I know other people can do this. Anybody have any suggestions?
Doreen
February 20th, 2010 at 3:17 pm
GB7 – Exactly.
Nothing wrong with new methods, but before they are accepted as standard, they need to “stand” the test of time.
“Oops we’re a little off” is of no real consequence for fans discussing the value of a player; it can be a big deal for a manager during a game, a GM in deciding to pay a player several million dollars, or as in your example, targeting something way out of range that ends up doing worse damage.
————————————————————
Doreen, that’s all it was….an example of putting out flawed information without figuring in all of the known variables. That’s the reason that I see little use in flawed stats. Not all variables are in place.
It’s really not a lot of difference than the silliness over the NYS as a homer haven. Get the old park down and shutters over the open panels in the upper stands and these things will change wind currents. Not all of the information is in, especially after one season.
“But if Keith Law wants to analyze hundreds of thousands of major league AB to tell me something like which has offers the greater probability of scoring a run with a man on second and no out, sacrificing or hitting anyway, I’d consider the information and appreciate the contribution to the body of knowledge to draw from.”
stuckey-
i had a similar thought earlier today. it was in relation to the right field debate yesterday on who the best right fielder is in baseball.
i haven’t watched most of those guys so i couldn’t say who is the best. if you ask me about players i watch i’d have no trouble telling you what i thought. so to me, it looks like the sabermetric stats are useful to me when i’m looking up guys i’ve never seen but if i’ve seen the players, it’s easier to go by what i see.
i’m not going to spend all my free time watching every player in baseball so the sabermetric data is valuable as a short cut to getting a read on a player.
i do wonder though how sabermetrics took over ownership of stats. to me stats are stats. isn’t” sabermetric stats” kind of redundant?
time for some golf and letting the jack russell walk me.
“And since when is it your place to educate everybody..or anybody for that matter?”
I believe it’s everyone’s place to try to advance understanding and share knowledge.
And I don’t meant to be flip about this GB, but as a person who has served our country in the military (and genuinely thank you for that), presumably abroad, doesn’t the U.S. as a society do exactly that, try to educate other societies about our (better) way of doing things, sometimes via force?
Are there not whole people here and around the world who question our place and right to do so?
Joe from LI,
I think mlb.com offers this. I just did a quick search and found this article on it.
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/.....he-iphone/
Chuck58
February 20th, 2010 at 3:19 pm
LGY, there are plenty of examples of both. I enjoy GB’s war stories; you (perhaps) do not. Relevant? We’re talking relevance to flaws in formulae/observation(s). I find GB’s comment relevant. You seem to have a personal issue with GB. Why?
————————————————————
The one correction that I’d make is that I don’t tell war stories. This was a training exercise.
“i do wonder though how sabermetrics took over ownership of stats. to me stats are stats. isn’t” sabermetric stats” kind of redundant?”
Yes, which is what I’ve been saying all along.
You’re problem isn’t with sabremetrics, it’s with some sabremetrians you’ve have negative experience with.
This has never been about the value of stats, rather your regard for those who you feel wield them like a weapon.
Chuck,
We are actually discussing the use of advanced metrics in baseball. Expanding the argument only blurs the discussion and makes it very simple for one side to make their point without actually addressing the issue at hand. As stuckey said, it is a very political tactic.
Simply put, what happened this one time during GB’s day in the army does nothing to address why wRC+ for example is flawed and that is why it is not relevant. There is no debate that you cannot expand far enough to “make your point.”
Perfect example of this? You think that we are discussing the relative value of these things in general and not just baseball.
Rich in NJ -
I’ll agree that there are some old ways that are held onto far beyond their relevance of usefulness for most; but probably for those still using them, it suits their needs.
If a GM today refuses to even look at updated methods of player evaluation, that’s not a good thing. But for me to decide that all I need to enjoy a baseball game is know the name of the player and the number on his back, that causes no problems.
The other thing is the whole issue of civility. Sometimes you defer to people who have been around the block a time or two. I’m not going to force my grandmother to learn how to send a text message, even though it’s a more efficient way to get in touch with me. I’m not going to tell my father-in-law that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about because his impression of players goes back to when he started watching (well, listening, really) to baseball back in the late 30s, early 40s.
Sometimes it’s not worth the fight because you lose more in being “right” than in being practical.
stuckey
February 20th, 2010 at 3:27 pm
“And since when is it your place to educate everybody..or anybody for that matter?”
I believe it’s everyone’s place to try to advance understanding and share knowledge.
And I don’t meant to be flip about this GB, but as a person who has served our country in the military (and genuinely thank you for that), presumably abroad, doesn’t the U.S. as a society do exactly that, try to educate other societies about our (better) way of doing things, sometimes via force?
Are there not whole people here and around the world who question our place and right to do so?
————————————————————
No, the military since WWII hasn’t tried to change anybody’s policies. That’s between politicians of the countries. In most places I’ve been, we’ve built schools, hospitals, power stations, dug wells and trained medical personnel on simple surgeries and first aid. We don’t go in and tell the head of a government what to do. We can advise them on security, but, implementing it is their choice.
If SJ44 is lurking around I’d like to see what he has to say about this. Earlier, in trying to debunk defensive metrics or whatever, he claimed that Jeter was horrible again in 2008 despite the metrics and articles on him changing his workout routine to improve his defense.
So I did a really quick google and found these Sj44 quote from 2008
“Jeter’s SS play has improved dramatically this year. There is no reason for him to move.”
“Ironically, he’s having his best defensive year in 3 years at SS. He hasn’t been the same hitter since he got his hand smashed in by Cabrera in June.”
“Especially since Jeter has not had a bad year defensively at shortstop.”
So SJ44, did you watch a bunch of tape from 2008 and decide retroactively that he was terrible?
I’m just curious what made you change your mind. Was it just that the argument happened to be against defensive metrics so you just wanted to try to discredit them a bit?
Joe from Long Island February 20th, 2010 at 3:20 pm
Okay, guys, I need a little help.
I just upgraded my cellphone from a 5-year old Motorola flip, to a iPhone 3GS. One of the big draws was to be able to watch live Yankee games, via the web.
So….How do I do this? What do I have to do? I am a 20th Century guy, and have no clue, other than I know other people can do this. Anybody have any suggestions?
————————————————————-
Okay so the first things you need to do is probably sell your house, pack up your family and belongings and move out of the blackout area.
Seriously, you can get the MLB app on your phone but for video, they black out the games if you are in that specific area.
YES, last season started selling a package that allowed you to watch games on your computer bypassing the blackout but I have not heard of any plans to make that an Iphone app.
For all the times a formula has failed, there have been an equal or greater amount of times some schmuck tried to eyeball something and f’d it all up.
Works both ways, doesn’t help the discussion.
One other thing about “educating” people to your way of thinking. Unless you’re asked, it isn’t your job.
No, the military since WWII hasn’t tried to change anybody’s policies. That’s between politicians of the countries. In most places I’ve been, we’ve built schools, hospitals, power stations, dug wells and trained medical personnel on simple surgeries and first aid. We don’t go in and tell the head of a government what to do. We can advise them on security, but, implementing it is their choice.
–
I think you supported his point on the military showing other countries how much better America is, vis a vis your building of schools and churches and hospitals.
Hearts and Minds, etc.
“No, the military since WWII hasn’t tried to change anybody’s policies. That’s between politicians of the countries.”
Agreed in principle, but your commander-in-chief IS a politician.
“We don’t go in and tell the head of a government what to do. We can advise them on security, but, implementing it is their choice.”
But we have removed governments and heads of state, have we not?
I’m not really sure why Keith Law is being used as an example of someone that only pays attention to stats. He doesn’t really do statistical analysis, he’s just like the rest of us – using the stats others have developed to compare major leaguers.
His main job is actually to scout college, high school and minor league players and then write about them. I would think you old school guys would appreciate that
It’s not like he even talks about advanced stats when evaluating young players either. Read an article or two by him, he’s actually a bright guy that recognizes the usefulness of new stats but also knows that seeing a player in person is way more important.
Jerkface,
Funny stuff about SJ44…
Joe all you need is the yes package and the MLB iPhone app from iTunes AppStore. The games are no longer blackout if you have the Yes subscription
Baseball Prospectus Pirates Rankings
Five-Star Prospects
1. Pedro Alvarez, 3B
Four-Star Prospects
2. Tony Sanchez, C
3. Jose Tabata, OF
Three-Star Prospects
4. Starling Marte, OF
5. Chase D’Arnaud, SS
6. Brad Lincoln, RHP
7. Gorkys Hernandez, OF
8. Colton Cain, LHP
9. Rudy Owens, LHP
10. Zack Von Rosenberg, RHP
Two-Star Prospects
11. Victor Black, RHP
Four More:
12. Tim Alderson, RHP:
13. Ronald Uviedo, RHP:
14. Brooks Pounders, RHP:
15. Daniel McCutchen, RHP:
“One other thing about “educating” people to your way of thinking. Unless you’re asked, it isn’t your job.”
GB, it wasn’t Copernicus job nor was he asked to challenge theory of geocentrism that was the dominant theory for nearly 1400 years, but out understanding of life and the universe improved immeasurably because he didn’t wait to be asked or decide to mind his place.
As I detailed earlier, the betterment of human understanding ALWAYS comes with society kicking and screaming in resistance.
Chad,
Has Joba come in to spring training in shape, as opposed to throughout all of last year, it was reported that he came into camp out of shape, and remained out of shape through the season, disallowing him from repeating his delivery.
stuckey
February 20th, 2010 at 3:39 pm
“No, the military since WWII hasn’t tried to change anybody’s policies. That’s between politicians of the countries.”
Agreed in principle, but your commander-in-chief IS a politician.
“We don’t go in and tell the head of a government what to do. We can advise them on security, but, implementing it is their choice.”
.ut we have removed governments and heads of state, have we not?
————————————————————
If asked by a government, yes. We (military) don’t make a habit of summary executions. Anything that is controlled by CIA or other intelligence groups has nothing to do with the military. They have their own “special interest groups”. The jobs we did were 90% humanitarian and we were asked for help in those areas. As far as the thank yous, I appreciate that, but, that wasn’t what I expect from anybody. It was my job and I enjoyed it for 36 years.
The Mets need new doctors.
Carlos Delgado under went a labrum surgery last May, had to undergo a second hip surgery for labrum resurfacing and a micro-facture procedure. He opted to go see Dr. Philippon in CO instead of the NY surgeons he used last year.
If Jaromir Jagr could play baseball, what position would he play?
I see the board is loading up with two new idiots (or, the same cowards afraid to use their own SNs). The world needs no tulips like you.
Same idiot. Just one. 1. Uno
stuckey
February 20th, 2010 at 3:46 pm
“One other thing about “educating” people to your way of thinking. Unless you’re asked, it isn’t your job.”
GB, it wasn’t Copernicus job nor was he asked to challenge theory of geocentrism that was the dominant theory for nearly 1400 years, but out understanding of life and the universe improved immeasurably because he didn’t wait to be asked or decide to mind his place.
As I detailed earlier, the betterment of human understanding ALWAYS comes with society kicking and screaming in resistance.
————————————————————
You can spin this crap any way you want, but, nobody asked you to convert everyone else to your beliefs.
“The Mets need new doctors.”
Say what you want about Boras, but if Delgado was his client, Phillipon would have done the first surgery.
GB, we know who YB is and it’s like the pot calling the kettle black. You’re not the yellow one, believe me. Pathetic…….Anyone that fights for their country and puts their life on the line is a hero. Don’t take this bozo seriously.
Jerkface
February 20th, 2010 at 3:37 pm
No, the military since WWII hasn’t tried to change anybody’s policies. That’s between politicians of the countries. In most places I’ve been, we’ve built schools, hospitals, power stations, dug wells and trained medical personnel on simple surgeries and first aid. We don’t go in and tell the head of a government what to do. We can advise them on security, but, implementing it is their choice.
–
I think you supported his point on the military showing other countries how much better America is, vis a vis your building of schools and churches and hospitals.
Hearts and Minds, etc.
————————————————————
More proof that you have no idea of what you’re talking about. You’re aptly named.
Betsy, I just like wearing yellow colored berets.
Joe from Long Island -
You’ll have to purchase the MLB At Bat app from the App Store when it comes out for the 2010 season (don’t think it’s out yet). Costs like $10 and let’s you listen to all the games and watch some (that’s what it was last year, might be able to watch more this year). I also believe the game watching can only be done on Wifi or 3G…something to keep in mind.
doesn’t the U.S. as a society do exactly that, try to educate other societies about our (better) way of doing things
vs
In most places I’ve been, we’ve built schools, hospitals, power stations, dug wells and trained medical personnel on simple surgeries and first aid.
–
Sounds like a supporting argument to me!
Betsy – Romine wasn’t built in a day
February 20th, 2010 at 3:57 pm
GB, we know who YB is and it’s like the pot calling the kettle black. You’re not the yellow one, believe me. Pathetic…….Anyone that fights for their country and puts their life on the line is a hero. Don’t take this bozo seriously.
————————————————————
Betsy, I don’t let it bother me, unless they’re spewing faulty information.
As far as the “fighting” part, I did it because I enjoyed it, travelled to more than 80 countries and we got to help people that asked for help to improve their lives and I got a great education that I could never afford on my own. That’s the only reason that 905 of the people go into this job. It certainly isn’t for the cash value.
Video of CC’s bullpen today
http://www.nj.com/yankees/inde.....plete.html
***90%*** of the people
This is a really narrow discussion. The purpose of the military is to execute a political strategy, not to formulate one.
The Pentagon offers advice about which political objectives are achievable from a military perspective, and smart politicians (often an oxymoron, I know) tailor those goals accordingly.
Did I stumble into the LoHud Military Blog in error?
Yes, you did Pat.
The problem with the military is their acceptance of innocent casualties. It is acceptable losses that shade the perception of the military.
“As I detailed earlier, the betterment of human understanding ALWAYS comes with society kicking and screaming in resistance.”
“You can spin this crap any way you want, but, nobody asked you to convert everyone else to your beliefs.”
I’d just like to point out that these two statements are essentially synonyms.
pat
February 20th, 2010 at 4:03 pm
Video of CC’s bullpen today
http://www.nj.com/yankees/inde…..plete.html
————————————————————
Stop, please. I need a real fix. I’m hoping to get tickets while I’m down in Tampa in March for my check-up. Baseball season can’t get here fast enough to suit me. Real baseball discussion instead of this stuff.
Seriously, pat, thanks for the links and pix. It’s better than watching The History Channel that showing the same program for the 10th time this month.
I’d like to point out that I don’t give a flyin’ flip about your theories and formulas…or your beliefs.
George Steinbrenner and Joe Girardi are watching a high school game from the Boss’ box at GMS Field. The Tampa Prep 1B is the Boss’ grandson
11 minutes ago from web
pat
February 20th, 2010 at 4:19 pm
George Steinbrenner and Joe Girardi are watching a high school game from the Boss’ box at GMS Field. The Tampa Prep 1B is the Boss’ grandson
11 minutes ago from web
————————————————————
Hope that he’s got a good haircut and that he plays well. Big George will trade him to another family.
http://uspresswire.com/sets/80868
Um, the 4th pic from left is not Phil Hughes, lol
“This is a really narrow discussion. The purpose of the military is to execute a political strategy, not to formulate one.
The Pentagon offers advice about which political objectives are achievable from a military perspective, and smart politicians (often an oxymoron, I know) tailor those goals accordingly.”
Okay, we’ve entered the semantic minutia phase of the discussion. The context was I think fairly obvious, but quite right in literal terms, so I’ll concede the point and amend my question to GB.
The United States government sometimes uses means at its disposal to advance a political BELIEF system around the world.
Do you personally believe they should mind their own business?
Further, an important fiber in the very fabric of modern American society (a superfluous distinction historically speaking) is nationalistic belief and expression of our superior way of life.
Do you believe American society should be more mindful of expressing this outloud?
Do you believe we should hold our tongues for instance, in exchanges with societies that are more theocratic in nature, or oppress women, just as example?
Picture this conversation: “Hey, guys. Let’s go over to my grandpa’s place and play some baseball. He’s got a big yard…no windows to break.” “Sure. Where’s it at?” “Over on Dal Mabry and George Steinbrenner Drive.”
GB
My husband and son were in FL and hit ST a few days this week. My level of jealousy has risen with each “oh, I forgot to tell you”.
“GreenBeret7, How many innocent kids did you murder while in the military.
How many innocents died because of you?”
Please stop.
GB/Randy-
Interesting to hear your takes on why MM is not a pitching coach.
Another thing that seemed interesting in his work was that his ideas are specifically formulated to reduce pitching related injuries.
In that sense his work
might have a badly needed “preventative” aspect to it.
I wonder if Pitchers who use his system would in reality develop fewer arm injuries ?
I have thought and continue to belioeve that the Yankees should have a “professional” type of pitching coach.
Mike marshall would seem to be a great candidate.
Didn’t Spahn also have a very good screwball ?
It wasn’t my business to know how or why governments ask for or send help to another country. My job was to go and do the best I could do. The personnel have two obligations and they often conflict. One is that you take orders and the other is that you are under obligation to refuse to follow an unlawful order.
New Thread please?
“I’d like to point out that I don’t give a flyin’ flip about your theories and formulas…or your beliefs.”
I don’t have any formulas.
And I think what you’ve demonstrated is a belligerent resistance to the possibility of learning something new or have a previous belief improved.
Which in sincerity I don’t mean to pin solely on you. It’s a societal wide problem.
MTU, I’m lost as far as why Marshall has been all but blacklisted. His videos are amazing in their instruction and preventive measures.
Yeah, Spahn and Ford had great screwballs…as did Juan Marichal from the right side.
Isn’t there a “no politics” policy here on this blog?
Thanks for the suggestions for my iPhone. It looks like the MLB 2010 app is what I need, when available. Thanks a lot, guys.
At least for now, I’ll be able to keep track of the blog while at work – the IT police won’t stop me
Phil -
It’s beyond new thread.
We are in despareate need of the baseball season to begin.
So we can begin bickering on more friendly topics.
“It wasn’t my business to know how or why governments ask for or send help to another country. My job was to go and do the best I could do. The personnel have two obligations and they often conflict. One is that you take orders and the other is that you are under obligation to refuse to follow an unlawful order.”
Totally understood. I’ve retracted that portion of the inquiry. My remaining questions are to YOU personally, not in context of executing a former job.
**desperate**
That would be…
Betsy
Phil’s throwing lefty now. Nice!
pat
February 20th, 2010 at 4:25 pm
GB
My husband and son were in FL and hit ST a few days this week. My level of jealousy has risen with each “oh, I forgot to tell you”.
————————————————————
yeah, and I’m jealous of you getting the scoops before me. I assume that they took tons of videos and pix and are making you suffer by bragging and dragging them out a little at a time?
GB-
That’s too bad. He should be given an opportunity to prove that his theories will work at the MLB level.
He is a very smart man.
Let’s get a petition going.
Pat, I think now that Phil definitely has the edge over Joba, lol.
new way to spot trolls..look for the Yellow Beret. Get outta here with that garbage man..
Pat
you are a good wife/mom to let your guys take off w/o you! I have been trying to figure out a way to go to ST. My husband is a HS teacher, so he has Feb break off, but he is also a college XC ski coach, so this is his busy time. And my son is now in college, so his break doesn’t match up w/ anyone. Oh well, maybe some day I go on my own. Thanks for your reports.
New post with Sabathia audio
MTU
February 20th, 2010 at 4:36 pm
GB-
That’s too bad. He should be given an opportunity to prove that his theories will work at the MLB level.
He is a very smart man.
Let’s get a petition going.
————————————————————
I’m all for it. He lives about 40 miles from Tampa. He teaches at Michigan, but, he also runs a school for anybody that wants to attend. He has additional instructors that were trained by him. They only teach the exercise portion, and Marshall relates it to baseball. I’d settle for him just teaching his ideas to the kids in the system and having refreshers once a year. His ideas could help all levels, but, I’d think that starting the kids out would be the best way.
New thread (TG !) >>>>>
so this completly unresolvable argument has been raging for what, 3 days now? I generally read chad and sam’s posts then skim through the comments on the latest post, then join in the conversation. for the last several days, i’ve read the posts but the comments section was so argumentative, petty and filled with attacks that i just stopped and followed other pursuits.
I hope this is not a preview of what this yankees season is going to be like on this board.
GB
No video.
A good picture of Granderson and a few blurry ones of assorted Yankee gear clad people.
Granderson made a new fan because he was really nice to him. Players cars made an impression on a 15 yr old itching for a license as much as the baseball did.
yankees
LGY, thank you for your response.
GB, we call ‘em “sea stories” whether on land or sea, during war or not. Not sure how the green side calls stories [but, I understood from context your stories happened during a training evolution :-0]