Notes from Tuesday
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc, Podcast on Feb 23, 2010 
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Most of the position players were long gone by the time the writers got back into the clubhouse this afternoon. Joe Girardi said he will wait until tomorrow to deliver his spring training message to the team.
“To me, we start over,” Girardi said. “There was a good feeling in that clubhouse and we need to go back and get that good feeling. We have to work at it.”
Girardi once again said that he’s not concerned about the Yankees getting complacent after last year’s championship.
“I’ve said all along, there’s great character in that room and there are guys that are hungry every year,” he said. “…When you sign on here, you know there’s an expectation and you’re reminded of that daily, in a sense.”
Here’s the Girardi audio.
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• Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain each threw 40 pitches today. They won’t throw again until Friday, when they throw live batting practice to the Yankees position players.
• Not sure what happens with the pitchers tomorrow. Pitching coach Dave Eiland said Group 1 — the group that pitched yesterday — will throw live batting practice to hitters on Thursday.
• Girardi said he didn’t see Andy Pettitte’s bullpen session. Instead, he went to watch the catchers make throws to second base for the first time this spring. He wanted to see their arms, but he also wanted to make sure they didn’t overdo it. “I told them that was my sole reason for being there, make sure you take it easy,” he said.
• Damaso Marte had an ice pack on his left shoulder this afternoon. He still hasn’t thrown in he bullpen — next week, he said — but he did play catch off flat ground.
• Speaking of left-handed relievers, Boone Logan has decided to go back to using a changeup instead of a splitfinger as his third pitch. He works mostly with a fastball and a slider, but he experimented with a split in recent years. He said the changeup has come back to him fairly quickly.
• Girardi didn’t provide many details, but minor league right-hander Chris Garcia sat out today’s bullpen session because of some pain in his elbow. Good news is he’s expected to play catch tomorrow. I don’t really know Garcia at all, but I’d love to see him get through a healthy season just to show what he can do, for better or for worse.
• Big, power-hitting Double-A first baseman Jorge Vazquez was leaning back in his chair when we got into the clubhouse this morning. Alfredo Aceves said he faced Vazquez a few years ago when the two were playing in Mexico. “A long time ago,” Aceves said. “He got a home run.”
• Pitchers who threw today:
First group: Chamberlain, Hughes, Pettitte, Ramirez
Second group: Igawa, Melancon, Logan, Moseley
Third group: McAllister, Nova, Whelan
Fourth group: Bleich, Mitchell, Noesi
• First group pairings: Rivera caught Chamberlain, Cervelli caught Hughes, Posada caught Pettitte, Pilittere caught Ramirez.
That top picture is Dustin Moseley, Mark Melancon and Kei Igawa after their bullpen session. The second picture is a group of catchers waiting for a bullpen session to start. L to R: Romine, Higashioka, Montero and Gil.
I don’t think Garcia will ever throw a regular season pitch for the Yankees.
Elbow pain again – not good. Not good at all. Thanks for update.
I wonder if Girardi will do the pool hall bonding trip again?
“I don’t think Garcia will ever throw a regular season pitch for the Yankees.”
too bad that doesnt mean he’ll be a post-season star lol…
poor garcia..
Girardi said on the first day down here that he plans to do another trip with the team. Not sure it will be pool this time, though. Apparently they were discussing different ideas.
Everyone hits homers off Aceves.
Chad Jennings
February 23rd, 2010 at 7:00 pm
Girardi said on the first day down here that he plans to do another trip with the team. Not sure it will be pool this time, though. Apparently they were discussing different ideas.
***********
I stand by Scavenger Hunt!!!!
Please pass the idea along to Girardi so I can take all of the credit
i think skydriving would be great jk
Lets go Yankees or whomever…..Phillip Hughes will be the next Yankee Pitcher to win 20 games not named CC Sabathia……I’ll stake whatever reputation I’ve earned here over the past 4 years or so……
Erica – always OPPC
February 23rd, 2010 at 7:03 pm
Chad Jennings
February 23rd, 2010 at 7:00 pm
Girardi said on the first day down here that he plans to do another trip with the team. Not sure it will be pool this time, though. Apparently they were discussing different ideas.
***********
I stand by Scavenger Hunt!!!!
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Me too! But I get some credit if they do it at Disney.
Erin-
I think we discussed this, but mark your calendar
http://www.sites.si.edu/exhibi.....#itinerary
Erin
February 23rd, 2010 at 6:54 pm
GreenBeret7
February 23rd, 2010 at 6:45 pm
Erin/Erica, here’s a little reading you might enjoy.
http://christmas-specials.wiki….._Christmas
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Thanks GB! No wonder I’m not familiar with it-they stopped showing it on TV 4 years before I was born. lol
I think I’m going to have to order myself a copy though-I got all excited seeing that the 5 main “Muppeteers” all do characters
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so…you think that I’m so old, huh?
Erin: “I’m sorry, but, I’m just so much younger than everyone else that I don’t know about those old-timey things from wayyyyy back in the 1970s.”
Picture me sticking my tongue out at you.
A few months ago, I linked so clips of the show and some hilarious outtakes from the show.
“teddy
February 23rd, 2010 at 7:04 pm
i think ‘skydriving’ would be great jk”
Don’t you at least need a private pilot’s license for that?
Erica – always OPPC
February 23rd, 2010 at 7:05 pm
Erin-
I think we discussed this, but mark your calendar
http://www.sites.si.edu/exhibi…..#itinerary
************************
Ooooh…yes I forgot about that! That will be so cool. If you’re going to be in the Chicago area while it’s here, let me know
Cashman was on XM Radio, I missed the interview but caught the discussion by Jim Bowden and Jody Mac afterwards, and apparently Cash said in no uncertain terms that Johnson is the 2 hitter.
HE also said that on dec 17 he gave Damon the 2 year 14 mil offer and that if Damon accepted it he would have pulled back his Nick Johnson offer, but Boras/Damon refused.
Foolish.
You don’t need a pilot’s license to skydive, unless you’re the pilot and the plane is in trouble. Most places do require that you show some proof of being taught by a licensed instructor, though.
” do you think that part of Cano’s troubles was a matter of patience in his pitch selection, because for half of the season the two guys hitting behind him were either Cabrera and Molina or Gardner and Cervelli, and that made him a little jumpy and overanxious?”
gb7-
i have no idea why cano struggles with men on base.you would think he’d see more strikes because the pitcher doesn’t want to walk him.
i would like to hear what cano’s thoughts are when men are on base. he’s obviously so some odd swing thought and approach when he’s in that situation.
i do believe he’s pressing when he’s up there. that’s not going to help a hitter be clutch in those situations.
GreenBeret7
February 23rd, 2010 at 7:07 pm
Erin
February 23rd, 2010 at 6:54 pm
GreenBeret7
February 23rd, 2010 at 6:45 pm
Erin/Erica, here’s a little reading you might enjoy.
http://christmas-specials.wiki….._Christmas
************************
Thanks GB! No wonder I’m not familiar with it-they stopped showing it on TV 4 years before I was born. lol
I think I’m going to have to order myself a copy though-I got all excited seeing that the 5 main “Muppeteers” all do characters
————————————————————
so…you think that I’m so old, huh?
Erin: “I’m sorry, but, I’m just so much younger than everyone else that I don’t know about those old-timey things from wayyyyy back in the 1970s.”
Picture me sticking my tongue out at you.
A few months ago, I linked so clips of the show and some hilarious outtakes from the show.
************************
LMAO…Sorry GB, I didn’t mean to imply that you were old. It just made sense that I had never seen it since they stopped showing it in ’80!
I do remember the clips you posted now that you mention it, and it made up my mind that I will definitely buy a copy. Heading over to Amazon right now…
Happy now?
“HE also said that on dec 17 he gave Damon the 2 year 14 mil offer and that if Damon accepted it he would have pulled back his Nick Johnson offer, but Boras/Damon refused.
Foolish.”
It would be interesting how much earnings he made on NY market endorsements (if he had any). Johnny’s decision may redefine the term dumb jock.
randy l.
February 23rd, 2010 at 7:14 pm
” do you think that part of Cano’s troubles was a matter of patience in his pitch selection, because for half of the season the two guys hitting behind him were either Cabrera and Molina or Gardner and Cervelli, and that made him a little jumpy and overanxious?”
gb7-
i have no idea why cano struggles with men on base.you would think he’d see more strikes because the pitcher doesn’t want to walk him.
i would like to hear what cano’s thoughts are when men are on base. he’s obviously so some odd swing thought and approach when he’s in that situation.
i do believe he’s pressing when he’s up there. that’s not going to help a hitter be clutch in those situations.
————————————————————
Thanks, Randy. I was just curious. It would be interesting to know what his numbers are, depending on the batters following him over the last 5 years.
LMAO…Sorry GB, I didn’t mean to imply that you were old. It just made sense that I had never seen it since they stopped showing it in ‘80!
I do remember the clips you posted now that you mention it, and it made up my mind that I will definitely buy a copy. Heading over to Amazon right now…
Happy now?
————————————————————
I’d be a lot happier with my own copy.
I just thought my calendar said that this was “National Pick On Erin Week”.
thanks for that comment, Phill the Thrill. That really, truly added a lot. Keep ‘em comin please, you offer some tremendous insight
“Johnny’s decision may redefine the term dumb jock.”
Indubitably.
chad, anyone? when is the best time to show up at spring training practices? thanks!
Assuming a 13 million paycheck for 9 monthly payments a season, JD earned a gross check of 1,444,444/month. For 7 million the check is 777,777. That is tough on the wallet.
“Picture me sticking my tongue out at you.”
erin-
this was as as close as i could come to gb7 sticking his tongue out at you.
http://www.frontiernet.net/~jo.....%20out.jpg
Damon may have gotten bad advice amd/or made a dumb decision because the Yankees and NYS fit him perfectly, but he is getting $1m more this season than the Yankees offered, and can possibly get more than $6m next season (which would bring his two year take to over $14m), so if he worships at the alter of the almighty dollar, he may have made the right decision for himself.
As for Garcia, I’m not writing him off yet. He’s still only 22.
Lately they’ve been starting around 10:30.
randy l.
February 23rd, 2010 at 7:23 pm
“Picture me sticking my tongue out at you.”
erin-
this was as as close as i could come to gb7 sticking his tongue out at you.
http://www.frontiernet.net/~jo…..%20out.jpg
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No wonder nobody likes you on here, Randy. You’re always trying to get something started.
LMAO.
trisha,
Glad to see you in here.
I am not posting as much, but have been skimming and hadn’t seen your name in a while.
You’re well, dear girl?
Just an anecdotal observation, but I do think Cano’s front side tends to leak when there are men on base.
Not sure why, but it’s something that’s struck me. He leaks more often when men are on base. He rarely does that when the bases are clear.
Rich, I believe Garcia is 24, which is not to say that’s old, either.
Pat M.
February 23rd, 2010 at 7:05 pm
Lets go Yankees or whomever…..Phillip Hughes will be the next Yankee Pitcher to win 20 games not named CC Sabathia……I’ll stake whatever reputation I’ve earned here over the past 4 years or so……
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I am not saying that Phil Hughes is not capable of that.
All I am saying is that if you are expecting that of any young pitcher who has not pitched a full season in the big leagues (especially one who pitches in the AL East) you are setting yourself up to be disappointed.
You seem to be projecting Hughes to be on Pedro’s level. 20 game winner, sub 3 era, in the AL East. IDK Pat, but that seems kind of crazy…
let’s go yankees-
how can cano improve his hitting with men in scoring position?
Melkman is in Hotlanta
February 23rd, 2010 at 7:15 pm
It would be interesting how much earnings he made on NY market endorsements (if he had any). Johnny’s decision may redefine the term dumb jock.
**********
Is that attitude really necessary???
Johnny Damon is not the wisest person in the world (to put it mildly), but that has always been common knowledge. But that’s okay, he is a baseball player, not a rocket scientist. He pays an agent to get him the best deal possible. He believed whatever the agent told him. That’s Johnny’s fault. But to call him a dumb jock for putting his faith in someone to do their job- is very unfair
Bodhisattva
My bad.
August 24, 1985
http://www.baseball-reference......rcia001chr
This is the year that Joba will make his presence felt. His rules are lifted and he has much to lose if he doesn’t prove himself as a starter. My speculation is that in the back of his mind he wants to be Mo’s successor but that Mo will be around a minimum of 3 additional years.
When I go to games I always watch Joba talking to Andy and it looks like they are very tight. A mentoring that will bridge the 3 years for Joba and give him the advice to succeed over Hughes.
Let’s go Yankees……Without going inro all the he said ( scouts / advanced scouts )2nd hand info, I stick by what I said about being a 20 game winner before he hits Free Agency, and before any other pitcher currently on the clubs roster other than Sabathia…..As for the sub 3.00 I never indicated that achievement…..If he didn’t lose nearly 2 years of development, he’d be easlily considered a 17 game winner this season…..
Good stuff, Chad, as always!
Is the icepack on Marte’s left shoulder significant, or is this something that he always done? Seems a bit early in the season. Have any of the other pitchers iced their shoulders? I don’t want to overreact, but this would not be a good development, since they’re kind of depending on him to be THE lefty out of the pen.
pat m-
i think hughes could win twenty games with the yankees , but i think he’d need to spend half a season to a full year at triple a first developing all his pitches.
if he stays with what he has, he’ll be good , but i think it’s going to be hard to develop four good pitches when every game he pitches at the mlb level matters which makes it difficult to work on things that he doesn’t do well.
Cano’s career BABIP:
Low Leverage: .342
Medium Leverage: .302
High Leverage: .289
That may suggest that he isn’t making the same degree of contact with men on base, which could be the result of less pitch selectivity.
The ice is standard. Nothing at all to be worred about.
GreenBeret7
February 23rd, 2010 at 7:20 pm
LMAO…Sorry GB, I didn’t mean to imply that you were old. It just made sense that I had never seen it since they stopped showing it in ‘80!
I do remember the clips you posted now that you mention it, and it made up my mind that I will definitely buy a copy. Heading over to Amazon right now…
Happy now?
————————————————————
I’d be a lot happier with my own copy.
I just thought my calendar said that this was “National Pick On Erin Week”.
**************************
How did I forget National Pick on Erin Week? LOL
Well, maybe if you ease up on picking on me I’ll send a copy your way
randy l.
February 23rd, 2010 at 7:23 pm
“Picture me sticking my tongue out at you.”
erin-
this was as as close as i could come to gb7 sticking his tongue out at you.
http://www.frontiernet.net/~jo…..%20out.jpg
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LOL Thanks Randy!
Thanks, Chad.
Randy I, I think the change-up is the key for his move to the next level……I think his curveball is an A pitch, to go along with his ability to locate his fastball with precision…..I think the club will have him continue to learn while on the job this season…..Even though he just owned the lower levels , especially in 07 before his call-up, as you clearly noted back then, he should have stayed down in AAA Ball…..Makes you wonder where he’d be today if he hadn’t loss some much of 07-08……I’ll stick by what I stated, and take my lumps until he posts a 20 on his Topps Card…..Pitching wins should be back in fashion by then
I would like to see Hughes throw more two seamers. When I saw him pitch at Trenton, he was a dominant groundball pitcher.
Erin
February 23rd, 2010 at 7:41 pm
GreenBeret7
February 23rd, 2010 at 7:20 pm
LMAO…Sorry GB, I didn’t mean to imply that you were old. It just made sense that I had never seen it since they stopped showing it in ‘80!
I do remember the clips you posted now that you mention it, and it made up my mind that I will definitely buy a copy. Heading over to Amazon right now…
Happy now?
————————————————————
I’d be a lot happier with my own copy.
I just thought my calendar said that this was “National Pick On Erin Week”.
**************************
How did I forget National Pick on Erin Week? LOL
Well, maybe if you ease up on picking on me I’ll send a copy your way
————————————————————
You just seem to think that you can buy my affections. I may be easy, but, Im not a cheap pick-up.
On second thought….I am easy and cheap.
I really hope you are correct Pat. You are quite high on Hughes. How do you feel about Joba
you tube has a ton of Sesame street clips, Erin…quite a few outtakes.
I have to start restocking that sort of stuff for the kids. This will be the third time. They’ll be getting to that age soon, where they’ll be easy to entertain with the toys and dvds.
Pat M.
February 23rd, 2010 at 7:05 pm
Lets go Yankees or whomever…..Phillip Hughes will be the next Yankee Pitcher to win 20 games not named CC Sabathia……I’ll stake whatever reputation I’ve earned here over the past 4 years or so……
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i’d have to agree
once he finds his groove
he is just a very good,smart pitcher & it would be nice if we can develope an ace.it has been a long time
can you imagine if we end up with joba & hughes as aces?
GreenBeret7
February 23rd, 2010 at 7:57 pm
you tube has a ton of Sesame street clips, Erin…quite a few outtakes.
I have to start restocking that sort of stuff for the kids. This will be the third time. They’ll be getting to that age soon, where they’ll be easy to entertain with the toys and dvds.
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I know-You Tube has great stuff. I’m on there all the time!
You definitely have to introduce the twins to the wonderful world of Muppets!
Have a good night GB-I’m off for the evening-I have a very busy night of watching TV and reading the latest Entertainment Weekly ahead of me. Don’t I lead an exciting life?
Hey Boddy! Life is great. I have my office up and running and I’ve been enjoying the heck out of the Olympics. I posted here today for the first time in a while. Definitely faith in the Yankees rather than ennui that has kept me from feeling the need to post! I KNOW 28 is on its way, I have a total sense of calm about the upcoming season (what else is new). So my posting needs are few right now!
Things good by you?
“i think hughes could win twenty games with the yankees , but i think he’d need to spend half a season to a full year at triple a first developing all his pitches.”
Man, you’re putting a lot of stock in the difference between throwing a pitch 1 time every 100 pitches and throwing it 5 times.
I think instead of pool they should do laser tag. Girardi said that his guys suggested paintball, which is like laser tag without getting hit with paintballs.. I played laser tag for the first time over the summer and surprisingly, it’s pretty awesome.
Pat M, just want to say I am definitely with you on Phil. I referred to him as the future face of the Yankees several seasons ago and nothing has caused me to change my opinion. He hasn’t lost his tremendous skill set. His unfortunate injury when he was pitching his no hitter of course took a toll. But he definitely has the goods. Once he gets into a groove, there will be no stopping him.
I feel it in me bones. Those are always my most accurate predictions!
It’s hard to compare the two due several stark differences….Foremost is that Hughes is so mechanically sound and repetitive, secondly, he’s very advanced in his approach and dedication to his craft….Joba has yet to display that commitment and his mechanics are very loose….He has thunder in his right arm, but I wonder if we’ll ever see him maximize what he can be…..I’ve always stated that Hughes will have the more successful career….The gap between their individual talents is far closer than the gap between their mechanics and their mental makeup……
“But he definitely has the goods. Once he gets into a groove, there will be no stopping him.”
His 2009 season says hello…:-)
Stuckey, You can rag on me all you want…I just know what I see, and there’ll be a time when the croud will be silenced…..And man I can’t wait for that time…..Do recall he’s completely dominated lineups on certain occasions…I think you need more than 1 pitch to do so…..I’ll leave it at that…..
Once he gets into the groove again of being a starting pitcher, there will be no stopping him.
“That may suggest that he isn’t making the same degree of contact with men on base, which could be the result of less pitch selectivity.”
rich in nj-
serious question ?
don’t sabermetric people believe that hitters do not hit differently in different situations which is why they think clutch doesn’t exist.
i really don’t see how a sabermetrically inclined person could even look at what cano is doing because it seems they’d be admitting that hitters can be bad clutch hitters.
cano was bad last year with men in scoring position, and it seems like he’s always had trouble with the bases loaded.
Stuck, I have no dog in the hunt. Just tellin’ ya what I believe will be the case!
This coming from the mouth of the person who never wavered in declaring number 27 last season and also the one who guessed the number of seasons wins on the nose!
Stick with me, Stuck.
Jerkface
February 23rd, 2010 at 5:25 pm
Jerkface, I said nothing about comparing Phil to Greinke.
–
I didnt say you did, but you seem to be disappointed with my assertion that I think Hughes is a kind of pitcher will have some high 2 ERA seasons and spend most of his time between 3 and 4.
AL pitchers in 2009 with an ERA under 3.37 (CC Sabathia)
Zack Greinke AL Central 2.16
Felix Hernandez AL West 2.49
Roy Halladay AL east 2.79
Expecting hughes to put up ERAs like that every season is unrealistic in such a tough division. Most of the low ERA pitchers hang out in the NL west and Central where they can beat up on bad teams or sit in pitcher’s parks.
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this was and probably will be Greinke’s career year as he will not pitch to low 2 eras’ over his career.
as far as what Joba or Hughes peak year performance will be like how do you propose to be so certain to know what they will never accomplish in their careers?
your a fan who posts on a blog whose probably never thrown a real pitch in your life and probably has no clue what the difference is between a 4 seam grip and a 2 seam grip.
Curious what was Greinke’s era over his 1st 40 major league starts because Joba’s was 3.61 pitching against the toughest lineups in baseball.
Greinke by the way was fortunate not to face the Yanks at all last year and I think he pitched against the RedSox once. Makes a differnce when your facing the Tigers,Twins and the White Sox 10 times a season as opposed to lineups like the Yanks,RedSux,Rays and even the Orioles who’d have a top two lineup in the AL Central if they played in that division this year.
Be careful about prognosticating that a 23 yr old pitcher with all the talent in the world can’t ever be as good as the new flavor who also struggled in his initial seasons as well.
For shi#s and giggles compare Joba’s 1st 40 starts in the majors to say Halladay’s and you’ll see even with the terrible last stretch of 2 and 3 inning starts in aug and sept he’s way ahead of where Halladay was at this point of his career.
randy
The thinking on clutch is evolving.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/m.....of-clutch/
Tom Tango:
In every case, the result is the same: yes, clutch hitting exists. There is no question: clutch hitting does exist. Indeed, as long as you make humans the central participants in contexts that change wildly, it will be a foregone conclusion that the results will not be completely random from our expectation of those participants. Therefore, that we find the existence of clutch hitting is not terribly exciting. It is expected. However, we haven’t established the degree to which it exists, nor have we established the likelihood that we can even find the thing that we know exists.
[...]
Let’s let this clutch debate end today (please?), and simply agree that: a) yes, clutch exists, b) yes, fans can perceive clutch players, but c) the impact of clutch players is limited to less than the platoon advantage.
__
Obviously, there are individual differences.
Giving up and leaving work now-
Catch you all later!
Now since A-Rod is “clutch” they want to change the definition! A-Rod haterz
“Stuckey, You can rag on me all you want…I just know what I see, and there’ll be a time when the croud will be silenced…..And man I can’t wait for that time…..Do recall he’s completely dominated lineups on certain occasions…I think you need more than 1 pitch to do so…..I’ll leave it at that…..”
Pat, I think you might have misunderstood something. I think Hughes took a huge leap forward last year as a major league PITCHER. I think he has the goods too. Not sure how you concluded I was disagreeing with that.
I just don’t see any evidence to suggest he requires any more time in AAA.
But NOW I have to take exception to something you JUST said. That he is a 1 pitch pitcher. He’s a gross misconception that as a short reliever in 2009, he became a much different pitcher.
He threw 63% fastball, 20% curveballs and 16% cutters in 2009.
As a starter in 2007: 66% fastballs, 4.7% sliders, 23% curveballs and 6% change-ups.
In 2008: 62% fastball, 9% sliders, 23% curveballs and 5% change-ups.
His cutter essentially became his 3rd pitch and he abandoned the change (throwing it less an 1%)
In other words, he actually three less of that “1 pitch” in 2009 than in any other time as a starters. He threw his curve just a little less.
Phil Hughes the reliever is NOT that much different than Phil Hughes the starter.
I’ll restate my thesis. I think he became a good PITCHER last season, not just a good relief pitchers.
I’ll wager that Hughes the reliever has a much better WHIP than Hughes the starter.
Can we agree that WHIP is more important that pitch distribution?
Just kidding.
“Now since A-Rod is “clutch” they want to change the definition! A-Rod haterz”
First, A-Rod was always clutch. Second, the article I linked was published on February 20, 2009.
Stuckey, I just reread your post, before I did the refresh gig…..As Tin Cup memntioned and several here, the change up is what will bounce him up to the next plateau and he’ll seperate himself from the pack
“Man, you’re putting a lot of stock in the difference between throwing a pitch 1 time every 100 pitches and throwing it 5 times.”
why would someone who has a good change up throw it only 5 times out of a hundred?
if hughes developed a good change he might throw it one in ten pitches.
i think if hughes is going to reach the high end of pat m’s expectations he needs to develop the change up as a weapon.
i agree with pat m he could do it.
M,
Boiled down I think the difference between Phil Hughes in 2009 and Phil Hughes in 2007-2008 was the fact it was 2009.
I know it’s easy to say it was because he was a short reliever, but he was a ridiculously dominate reliever (arguably the major league’s best for June-September), I just don’t necessarily attribute it all to the ROLE.
I think he found something (yeah, probably had to do with the approach) in 2009 that moved his career forward, not something he’s going to need a year in the minors to “translate” back to being a starter.
He just got better because he got better.
Hughes is da man.
Mark my words, he’ll win a ROY one of these years.
“Phil Hughes the reliever is NOT that much different than Phil Hughes the starter.
I’ll restate my thesis. I think he became a good PITCHER last season, not just a good relief pitchers.”
=================================================
I thought I was the only one that felt that way last year.
Last years experience helped phil tremendously.
Don’t forget that as often as Hughes was injured in 2007-08, his arm strength, and as a result his ability to build up his velo, had to suffer. 2009 was the first year that he was able to reverse that.
“Phil Hughes the reliever is NOT that much different than Phil Hughes the starter.”
hughes has not been good as a starter.
he’s been good as a reliever.
there’s something different in the results even if the pitch type thrown is similar.
i would guess his velocity on his fastballs is 3-4 miles per hour less as a starter.
those three pitches aren’t as effective with a slower fastball.
i think he needs to throw the change up at least ten per cent of the time if he’s going to throw a 91-93 fastball as a starter.
Tom Tango is the man!
http://www.tangotiger.net/
Oh, Stuckey. Don’t get me started on Phil. I’ve been on his bandwagon forever.
But I do think that he finally feels like he belongs in the bigs. Can’t take that away from him, and I’m very anxious to see if he takes his attitude and approach with him if he becomes a starter this year.
Randy, did you see Burnett’s drop in his use of change-ups? Lowest of his career and his curveball usage was the highest total. Slider usage was almost non-existant. That seems rather odd. I wonder if that’s why he shook off the catchers so much….trying to avoid those pitches?
“why would someone who has a good change up throw it only 5 times out of a hundred?”
He’s going to throw his fastball 60% of the time. Even Johan Santana throws his fastball 60% of the time. Is his curveball ever going to take a backseat to his change. Does Hughes, who has throw in consistently in the 20%s going to throw it a lot less?
And the cutter seems like a weapon for him now.
But okay, I’ll play along. Say he goes 60/20/10/10.
I still don’t think that’s a significant difference … not enough to send him and his one last remaining option back to the minors.
“i think if hughes is going to reach the high end of pat m’s expectations he needs to develop the change up as a weapon.’|
I’m fine with that, simply adding that’s a arbitrary conclusion.
I prefer to look at the results of 2009, when he threw to a tune of 1.40 for 4 months.
I’d prefer to see him try to build off that (as a starter or reliever) than feel like he needs to go back to AAA and reinvent 10% of the wheel … again ….
“hughes has not been good as a starter.
he’s been good as a reliever.
there’s something different in the results even if the pitch type thrown is similar.”
Is it possible the difference is the fact that he was 20-22 as a starter, and pitching his first 130 or so major league innings.
Now if a pitcher had an established career and then made the switched and the results changed, I’d say the conclusion was more apparent.
But why it maybe just be it took him a little while to get better, as it does SO MANY young pitchers?
“i would guess his velocity on his fastballs is 3-4 miles per hour less as a starter.”
More like 2-2.5, according to the stat sites.
“those three pitches aren’t as effective with a slower fastball.”
He has some room to play with when he was THAT effective. He can have attrition and still be VERY good.
“i think he needs to throw the change up at least ten per cent of the time if he’s going to throw a 91-93 fastball as a starter.”
May I ask you to show your math? How do you come up with 10%?
I expect his fastball to sit at 94 this season, much like it was prior to the injuries in 07-08 as Rich in NJ referenced to….He always had such defined late movement on his 4 seamer, it was insane….
# Rich in NJ February 23rd, 2010 at 8:34 pm
“Now since A-Rod is “clutch” they want to change the definition! A-Rod haterz”
First, A-Rod was always clutch. Second, the article I linked was published on February 20, 2009.
Third, It ain’t changing. Fourth, It was a joke.
“I still don’t think that’s a significant difference … not enough to send him and his one last remaining option back to the minors.”
if a hitter has to think about a good change up, it makes the other pitches that much better.
if hughes as a starter is only going to throw a 91-93 fastball, a curveball, and a cutter, he’ll still be good , but more of a #3 than an ace.
i’d like to see him go t triple a and throw the change up 25 % of the time until he has command of it.
then come back and be a complete pitcher.
Phil as a starter was pretty darn good last year. When Wang was pitching out of the pen and Hughes was starting, me and several others said that Wang should be put on the DL again and given a proper rehab assignment. I think if that had happened he’d still be a Yankee and there would be less of a question about Hughes’ ability to start.
Then again, maybe Hughes wouldn’t have fallen into the 8th inning role that helped us make the playoffs.
I guess my point is, Hughes has shown enough as a starter for us to be reasonable confident in his ability. Joba is a bit more of a wild card but I do think he has a slightly higher upside.
Honestly I think Joba in the rotation to start the year would be the best move for now and long-term but I think the Yanks will lean towards Hughes which is really exciting considering he’s been my favorite prospect/player since he was drafted.
I think Phil can sit 93-94 with plus-plus command and a fantastic out pitch in his curve. His cutter is average or a bit above average but he’s only been throwing it for a year. The change has been a work in progress for like 3 years now, perhaps he will work on it more this spring and it will become a weapon for him. Either way, I see him as an above average starting pitcher in 2010.
new thread
What does OPPC stand for
“May I ask you to show your math? How do you come up with 10%?”
5% is too small. 20% is to high. 8- 12% feels about right. 10% is in the middle of that.
maybe hughes can’t throw a really good change.
some pitchers can’t.
if he doesn’t develop one, it’ll limit his high end.
Randy I, An effective change to go with his jelly-leg curveball would elevate his presence on the mound to a top 10 type statrter…..But it all starts with his precision like fastball location….That is the key to Phil Hughes and his future sucess
Patrick – it stands for Official Positive Poster’s Club
I think another way to say it would be “Opposed to Panic” Poster’s Club.
Pat M – you know your stuff. Trust it.
Carl
“Third, It ain’t changing. Fourth, It was a joke.”
Oh…they invented emoticions for a reason…
I hope Jorge ‘El Destructor’ Vazquez will get a shot on the bench! He is ready, a monster. He is like Matsui. He has done everything in his country. He is a superstar. Gatorade ads, all that. He will be a huge asset. Tremendous power to all fields. I know not great, but playable at 1b, 3b, corner OF. His bat is worth it!!!!! Aceves was no one compared to Jorge in Mexico!!
Biography:
Is a 10-year veteran of the Mexican League, recording at least a .300 average and 15 HR in each of the last five seasons (2004-08). … Led the league in slugging percentage (.796) and ranked second in homers (33) in 2005 in 71g. … Also led the league in slugging (.739) and second in homers (31) in 2006 in 75g…… Was a member of the 2000 and ‘01 Mexican League championship teams. …Was a member of Team Mexico for World Baseball Classic……Signed by the New York Yankees as a free agent on Dec. 7, 2008.
Highlights: 2005
Batted .379 with 33 home runs and 96 RBIs in 71 games with Angelopolis-AAA Mex Lg.
Highlights: 2008
Played for the Tigres de Quintana Roo of the Mexican League, batting .339 with 30 R, 7 doubles, 18 HR and 59 RBIs in 56 games. … Hit safely in 17 straight games from May 18-June 11, batting .431 (31-for-72) with 1 double, 10 HR and 25 RBIs during the stretch, including a season-high 3 HR and 5 RBIs on June 7 at Saltillo. … Recorded a hit in 25-of-26 games from May 18-July 2 (game 1), going 43-for-109 (.394) over the span. … Played for the Tomateros de Culiacan of the Mexican Pacific League following the season, leading the league in slugging percentage (.636), ranking second in batting average (.348), homers (15) and extra-base hits (27), placing third in on-base percentage (.416) and ranking fifth in RBIs (46).
Highlights: 2009
Spent his first season in the Yankees organization with Double-A Trenton. …In debut hit a two-run home run and had 4rbi’s…. Was EL All-Star placing 3rd in the league in avg(.332), 5th in HR(13), 7th in RBI(55) and 1st in SLG (.584) while only playing in 56 out of the leagues 91g at the break…For the week of June 21-27 hit .560 (14-for-25) with 3 HR and 9 RBI….With RISP batted .394 w/ 6 HR, 43 RBI and 1.134 OPS…. Had 21multi-hit games, including five three or more-hit games. … Had 14 multi-RBI games with four RBI in a game three times…Was on team Mexico for World Baseball Classic. Hit a grand slam in first WBC at bat, batting .294 with 1HR, 5runs and 5RBI’s in 5games.
If you want to check it out, you can see Jorge Vazquez’s mammoth WBC grand slam on his profile page on Yankees.com when you click his name. It landed above the tunnell.