Derek Jeter press conference
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Feb 24, 2010 
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The media just moved into a tent behind the stadium. We’re waiting for Derek Jeter’s press conference, expecting a lot of questions about his contract. I’ll be back soon with some updates.
UPDATE, 9:11a.m.: First question was about the contract. “I’ve never gone into a season focused on the next season,” Jeter said.
UPDATE, 9:15 a.m.: “I’ve never put limitations on how long I will play… I want to play as long as I can, as long as I’m having fun, as long as I’m productive.”
UPDATE, 9:17 a.m.: “This is the only organization I want to play for. I think I can say it enough times. I’m not worried about what my legacy is at this point.”
UPDATE, 9:20 a.m.: On where last year’s championship ranks in the five titles he’s won: “I think it would be sort of like trying to rank which kid you like the most.”
UPDATE, 9:23 a.m.: “I want to play shortstop as long as I can.”
UPDATE, 9:44 a.m.: Here’s the full audio of the Jeter press conference. It went exactly as expected, with Jeter talking mostly about his contract, saying he wants to play only for the Yankees and doesn’t want to discuss the contract after today.
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Change of opinion
With the news yesterday that Chad Gaudin’s 3 mil contract is not guaranteed I am changing my opinion on the odds of the Yankees dealing Alfredo Aceves.
Keep in mind, my rational for dealing Aceves was never that Gaudin or Mitre are better than Ace; it was that given the contract status of the three pitchers Ace was the only one the team could find a trade for.
By letting Gaudin go, the Yankees will save themselves 3 mil and, again, while Gaudin is a nice player, 3 mil is a lot of money to pay to the 11th or 12th man on the pitching staff.
My 12 pitchers
CC, AJ, Andy, Javy, Hughes
RHP: Mo, Joba, Aceves, Robertson, Park
LHP: Logan, Marte
By taking a second LHP the Yankees can use Marte in a variety of ways rather than just keeping him as a LH specialist.
“The goal is to win another championship”
(End of press conference)
Chad- I DARE you to ask if he is engaged
Erica – always OPPC
February 24th, 2010 at 9:11 am
“The goal is to win another championship”
(End of press conference)
Chad- I DARE you to ask if he is engaged
*********************
LOL
If he does, he probably wouldn’t get much of a response other than a flat denial.
MTU
February 24th, 2010 at 9:10 am
Erica,
This whole debate reminds me of a dog chasing his tail.
The search for the lost city of “El Dorado”.
The quest for the “Holy Grail”.
However, it must be resolved before Dec. 2012.
*************
Kind of reminds me of the old Tootsie Roll pop commercials
“How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie roll pop?” (Giant bite)
“The world may never know!”
BloggingBombers Jeter: “I’ve never gone into a season thinking about the next season.” about 1 minute ago
BryanHoch Jeter: “This is the only organization I’ve ever wanted to play for. I’ve never envisioned myself playing anywhere else. Hopefully I don’ … 20 seconds ago
BloggingBombers Jeter: “I’ve never been a free agent and I’ve never wanted to be a free agent.” 11 seconds ago
Erin
February 24th, 2010 at 9:12 am
Erica – always OPPC
February 24th, 2010 at 9:11 am
“The goal is to win another championship”
(End of press conference)
Chad- I DARE you to ask if he is engaged
*********************
LOL
If he does, he probably wouldn’t get much of a response other than a flat denial.
*********8
No, he would also get one of the greatest dirty looks of all time
This is going to be a massive waste of time.
Q: Derek, are you concerned about your contract?
A: No. I’m not thinking about my contract. The goal is the same, winning the world series, that’s what I’m thinking about the rest will take care of itself.
Q: Derek, how many more years do you want to play?
A: I don’t know, I’m an old man now. (said with a smile)
Q: Derek, are you upset with the team’s statement that they aren’t going to negotiate with you until after the season?
A: No.
and so on like that. Derek has never and will never give a controversial quote.
Erica – always OPPC
February 24th, 2010 at 9:13 am
No, he would also get one of the greatest dirty looks of all time
**********************
Very true
BryanHoch Agent Casey Close reached out to Yankees during the winter. He was told that there would be no negotiations on Jeter deal until after season 53 seconds ago
BryanHoch Jeter: “This is the only organization I want to play for. I don’t think I can say it enough times.” 26 seconds ago
BryanHoch Jeter on fav. WS win – “I think it’d be like trying to rank which kid you like the most.” 29 seconds ago reply
Chip
it might be a waste of time, but it is a rite of ST
and I am glad you changed your opinion on Aceves
Erin
February 24th, 2010 at 9:20 am
BryanHoch Jeter on fav. WS win – “I think it’d be like trying to rank which kid you like the most.” 29 seconds ago reply
——————————–
Now, THAT’S a good quote! He must have been working on that one.
Erin-
“I think it’d be like trying to rank which kid you like the most.”
I think he getting a little ahead of himself there.
BryanHoch Jeter – “My job here is to play shortstop. I’m going to play shortstop as long as I can.” about 1 minute ago
BryanHoch http://twitpic.com/152vjz Jeter press conference 2 minutes ago
Doreen
February 24th, 2010 at 9:23 am
Erin
February 24th, 2010 at 9:20 am
BryanHoch Jeter on fav. WS win – “I think it’d be like trying to rank which kid you like the most.” 29 seconds ago reply
——————————–
Now, THAT’S a good quote! He must have been working on that one.
****************
I know! Loved it. lol
“Derek, which supermodel or movie star is your favorite?”
“It’s like asking which championship I like the most. I’d like to date supermodels and movie stars as long as I can, as long as I’m having fun, and as long as I can be productive.”
I would rather read derek jeter quotes any day than endless sabermetrics debates.
Can the participants in this saga just agree to disagree and move on already.
good one John
Notable and Quotable:
Q: Brian, What do you think about the possibility of Jeter playing SS until he retires as a Yankee ?
A: It’s a “process”. Well see.
Q: Derek, What do you think about what Cash just said ?
A: “I feel like the 2nd luckiest man in the world.”
blake
I would rather read muppets/movies/snowstorms/favorite foods, well just about anything other than the sabre fights.
MTU
February 24th, 2010 at 9:32 am
Notable and Quotable:
Q: Brian, What do you think about the possibility of Jeter playing SS until he retires as a Yankee ?
A: It’s a “process”. Well see.
Q: Derek, What do you think about what Cash just said ?
A: “I feel like the 2nd luckiest man in the world.”
********************
LOL
Erin
February 24th, 2010 at 9:27 am
Doreen
February 24th, 2010 at 9:23 am
Erin
February 24th, 2010 at 9:20 am
BryanHoch Jeter on fav. WS win – “I think it’d be like trying to rank which kid you like the most.” 29 seconds ago reply
——————————–
Now, THAT’S a good quote! He must have been working on that one.
****************
I know! Loved it. lol
____________________________________________________________
I know most of what he says is vanilla, but the Captain is very witty. Every once in a while he throws in a good line. You just have to pay close attention
upstate kate
February 24th, 2010 at 9:32 am
blake
I would rather read muppets/movies/snowstorms/favorite foods, well just about anything other than the sabre fights.
**********************
muppets, movies and food = three of my favorite things
But I can’t take any more snow!! It’s starting to depress me-I need sun! lol
Erin
February 24th, 2010 at 9:37 am
upstate kate
February 24th, 2010 at 9:32 am
blake
I would rather read muppets/movies/snowstorms/favorite foods, well just about anything other than the sabre fights.
**********************
muppets, movies and food = three of my favorite things
***********
I agree- except I like TV more than movies.
I really, really, really like TV
Erica – always OPPC
February 24th, 2010 at 9:40 am
Erin
February 24th, 2010 at 9:37 am
upstate kate
February 24th, 2010 at 9:32 am
blake
I would rather read muppets/movies/snowstorms/favorite foods, well just about anything other than the sabre fights.
**********************
muppets, movies and food = three of my favorite things
***********
I agree- except I like TV more than movies.
I really, really, really like TV
*******************
oh, me too. Love TV. add TV to that list and I’m a very happy girl
Erica – always OPPC
“The goal is to win another championship”
(End of press conference)
Chad- I DARE you to ask if he is engaged
———————————-
the answer to that is no.
Just updated with the full audio. This thing went exactly as we expected, but that’s because Jeter is very good in these situations. Nothing controversial, but nothing dismissive either. I must say, I did not expect Leon Washington’s name to be mentioned in the first question.
I know they have to go through this dance each spring, but I think by now we all know the answers Derek’s going to give.
Anyway – with the Aceves debate off the table I thought long and hard about what hornets’ nest to poke next and I’m going with this one:
Despite Joba not having restrictions for the first time I think Hughes will be the fifth starter because of how much more electric a relief pitcher Chamberlain is.
I also believe that Randy Winn will beat out Brett Gardner for the starting job. Winn is going to have a serious bounce back season and Gardner’s speed will not be enough to earn him a full time job.
In fact, I think Gardner will end up falling behind Winn, Hoffmann and Winfree on the depth chart by season’s end.
Erin
A little blurry but….
http://tweetphoto.com/12364394
Examples of sabermetric measurements
Base Runs (BsR)
Defense Independent Pitching Statistics (DIPS)
Equivalent average (EQA)
Fantasy Batter Value (FBV)
Late-inning pressure situations (LIPS)
On-base plus slugging (OPS)
PECOTA
Peripheral ERA (PERA)
Pythagorean expectation
Range Factor
Runs created
Secondary average
Similarity score
Speed Score
Super linear weights
Total player rating (aka PW/BFW)
Value over replacement player (VORP)
Win shares
wOBA
WAR (http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....#winvalues)
[3]
sabermetrics are stats
some accepted ,some are not or not understood enough.
Some sabermetric measurements have entered mainstream baseball usage, especially OPS (on-base plus slugging) as well as WHIP (walks plus hits per inning pitched)
pat
February 24th, 2010 at 9:51 am
Erin
A little blurry but….
http://tweetphoto.com/12364394
***********
OMG pat, THANK YOU!!! That loud scream you heard was me
I guess I see the necessity for this press session as Derek doesn’t want to keep answering questions about the contract.
But isn’t there another one tomorrow with Alex?
For what reason?
Bronx Jeers
February 24th, 2010 at 9:56 am
I guess I see the necessity for this press session as Derek doesn’t want to keep answering questions about the contract.
But isn’t there another one tomorrow with Alex?
For what reason?
***************************
Just because he’s Alex.
I will never understand why the Yankees refuse to deal start contract talks until the contracts expire, especially with Jeter and Mo. That said, I anticipate no problems between Jeter and the Yankees because they have a very good relationship. The Yanks are not interested in short-changing Jeter and Jeter isn’t interested in holding the team for ransom.
I will never underestimate this man. Who’s to say he can’t play SS for several more years? I think he can play for as long as he wants to – and, like Mo, when he feels like he can’t be effective anymore, he will retire or move off the position.
I had to laugh at this: YankeesWFAN Big shocker. Jeter said he doesn’t want to play anywhere else and he’s not thinking about his contract. And we expected what exactly? 10 minutes ago
Bronx-
“But isn’t there another one tomorrow with Alex?
For what reason?”
So Alex won’t have to hear questions about the health of his hip all season.
To tell everyone how he got his groove back.
And to set the record straight on Kate Hudson.
Chad, it may be time to invest in a digital camera. You can probably get on the K-Mart about a half-mile away from the stadium for under $100.00.
Just because he’s Alex.
——————————
Yeah I guess it’s just habit.
But really, there’s not much to talk about.
How’s the hip? Good.
End of story.
You know I wish someone would write about Nick Johnson.
There’s a guy I’d like to hear from.
lol @ the guy who asked,”When you own the team, will you want the same policy?”
Classic.
Not sure if some of you folks realize this but-
Chad is a newspaper WRITER not a PHOTOGRAPHER.
There is a difference between the two. Lets talk about the quality of his writing (good, in my opinion) rather than the quality of his photos that he takes as a courtesy to commenters who asked for them
“NEW YORK — The New York Times is reporting that Major League Baseball plans to test minor league players for human growth hormone.
The newspaper, citing an unidentified baseball official with direct knowledge of the matter, reported on its Web site Tuesday night that MLB will implement blood tests that can reveal HGH use.”
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=4938135
Betsy -
They wait until after the season to avoid squabbles with other players.
Think about it like this – if the Yankees have two players who are free agents – one that they want to sign and one they aren’t so sure about, and they negotiate with one before the season they risk alienating the other player and him being disgruntled in the clubhouse.
In the case of Jeter and Mo they could make an exception and all the players would understand (I mean Javy wouldn’t have an issue with them getting signed and the club waiting until after the season to deal with him) but that’s not the way they want to go…as you say, it’s not really an issue because the Jeter and Rivera signings should go pretty smoothly.
The core four contract that won’t go smoothly is the one coming up after next season…Jorge.
DJ has about as much chance of owning the Yankees as Warren Buffett does winding up in a soup kitchen.
I’m very excited to see how much money and years Jeter wants at season’s end.
Oops, I think it was, “When you own your own team, will you want the same policy?”
Did Tiger’s name really come up?
Wonder if that guy will ask Alex the same question?
Thanks for the audio, Chad. I thought it was a really good press conference by the captain.
They made Mo wait until the end of the season on his last contract.
Oh, well. Hopefully we won’t hear about Jeter’s contract until the end of the season.
Betsy,
There’s no reason for the Yanks to extend deals until they have to. It’s one of the advantages of having the financial might that they do. Sure, they may end up paying more at the end of the day (like they did with Posada a few years ago), but it’s prudent because they know they’re negotiating with a healthy player. What if Mo blows his arm out this yr? Think the Yanks would be happy they just extendend him 2 yrs and 30 mil?
Wang is a good example. Lots of people wanted the Yanks to give him a deal similar to what they gave Cano. but the team never trusted his shoulder and we’re happy to go yr by yr, even if it meant they’d pay him a littl more with that strategy. And it was the right move because he had two injury riddled years and they’re not on the hook right now for 2 or 3 more uncertain years.
m-
Whatever sells print is what you hear about.
Jeter is the man. He knows the Yankees want/need him back and the Yankees know he wants to return next year. They will get a deal done, I just hope Jetes doesn’t gouge them for too much money.
Chip
February 24th, 2010 at 9:10 am
My 12 pitchers to start are:
CC, AJ, Javy, Andy, Joba
RHP: Mo, Hughes, Aceves, Robertson, Park, Gaudin
LHP: Marte
I am glad you are off the Aceves trade bandwagon, but I don’t believe Gaudin is going anywhere either. I don’t think the Yanks need a LH specialist in April as much as they need a long man because the starters won’t go as long. With Ace & Gaudin they fill the void of a long man really well. Also, having Logan in AAA, he will get more time to pitch regularly and see how good he is.
OMG this filter!
MTU,
Hopefully we games and Jeter avoids any prolonged slumps.
The more we win, the less c-h-i-n-k-s in the armor to poke at.
I think last evening’s conversation has been unfairly maligned. It was somewhat revelatory, at least if one read it all the way through. Maybe not as much if one skimmed it and said “oh, sabre blah blah.”
“Erin
February 24th, 2010 at 9:20 am
BryanHoch Jeter on fav. WS win – “I think it’d be like trying to rank which kid you like the most.” 29 seconds ago reply”
Nah, that’s a stock answer for players and managers who have won multiple titles.
m-
Jeter is practically bulletproof. Living Legend material.
Nick in SF
February 24th, 2010 at 10:16 am
I think last evening’s conversation has been unfairly maligned. It was somewhat revelatory, at least if one read it all the way through. Maybe not as much if one skimmed it and said “oh, sabre blah blah.”
************
Minor correction-
In the mind of Erica is more like, “Oh, sabre wonk wonk wonk”
It was somewhat revelatory
–
Only in determining who is arguing with a full deck
“The newspaper, citing an unidentified baseball official with direct knowledge of the matter, reported on its Web site Tuesday night that MLB will implement blood tests that can reveal HGH use.””
If both MLB and MLBPA don’t get this into the next CBA, they are nuts.
I am glad you are off the Aceves trade bandwagon, but I don’t believe Gaudin is going anywhere either. I don’t think the Yanks need a LH specialist in April as much as they need a long man because the starters won’t go as long.
Ray – they also won’t need a 5th starter due to the off days and between that additional starter and Aceves they’ll be fine in terms of long relief.
Heck, it’s entirely possible that the Yankees leave Hughes in Tampa to keep him on a regular schedule and take Edwar or Albaladejo north.
“It was somewhat revelatory”
I think randy showed us all the best way to “win” an argument. Simply ignore what the opposition says and make up an argument that sounds similar. Then simply debunk your own made up argument!
MTU
February 24th, 2010 at 10:17 am
m-
Jeter is practically bulletproof. Living Legend material.
—————–
That’s what we thought about Tiger
I love Jeter . .but man is he boring !! . Wheres the A Bomb !! add a little spice to this camp !
The Yanks probably would have saved a few (million) bucks had they done Mo & Po’s contracts before they expired.
I guess they feel it’s still not worth it.
With Girardi’s contract though?
I don’t see the harm. Let the guy work with a greater peace of mind.
Yes, Jeter wears kevlar as a second skin.
But if he slips, then the whole contract thing will rear its ugly head.
When we’re on top, the writers are very nice and are content with their feel good stories and profiles. When we’re losing, they start coming up with all kinds of theories.
Mike RI
February 24th, 2010 at 10:21 am
I love Jeter . .but man is he boring !! . Wheres the A Bomb !! add a little spice to this camp !
**********
Personally, I am thrilled to pieces we aren’t starting off this ST with the (unfortunate) annual steroids press conference
If you read between the line, I think you’ll find that there was some chain-yanking.
m
February 24th, 2010 at 10:08 am
Oops, I think it was, “When you own your own team, will you want the same policy?”
Did Tiger’s name really come up?
Anyway I can’t wait to listen to this when I get home from work!
Wonder if that guy will ask Alex the same question?
____________________________________________________________
Haha what was his answer to the owning the team question? I knew someone was going to go there with the tiger thing
(that’s on last night’s thread, not by Jeter)
I like Gaudin. I really hope Mitre shows enough in ST that the Yanks can get something for him.
Chip-
I see your analogy but I choose to reject it !
NYY,
Silence. Chuckle. Chuckle. He might have mumbled something.
“I think randy showed us all the best way to “win” an argument. Simply ignore what the opposition says and make up an argument that sounds similar. Then simply debunk your own made up argument!”
True. That surprised me. Always thought of him as a little more open to counter points than what he demonstrated last night. Could have been worse. He could have started his counter argument with “Jerkoff, you ignorant slut!”
I think I missed the end of the battle. Had to get to sleep so I could get my 8:30 AM Learning the Art of Clutch 101 class.
http://www.baseballprospectus......leid=10101
A good article about broadcasters trying to bring newer stats into the discussion for the general public.
It includes this funny anecdote:
Let me tell you about an argument I had with Chipper Jones. Last year, I came across an interesting nugget on Fangraphs while doing pre-game prep: Besides Albert Pujols, Chipper sees the fewest first-pitch strikes in the majors.
Chipper is open-minded when discussing hitting, even when he disagrees, so I decided to present him this information prior to the game. He was really surprised. He didn’t believe the facts, even though the numbers were inarguable. Or, more to the point, he believed in what he knew (and himself) more than my stupid, never-played-the-game facts.
Chipper was so surprised that he went around the clubhouse asking teammates, one by one, if they were surprised. None of them were. Everyone saw it but him, the guy with ostensibly the best view. Chipper has great eyes, obviously, and great belief in those eyes, but those eyes can also occasionally lie to even one of the best hitters in the game.
…
The rest is in the article, please read it as it includes a funny picture!
m
February 24th, 2010 at 10:25 am
NYY,
Silence. Chuckle. Chuckle. He might have mumbled something.
____________________________________________________________LOL good enough I guess. He probably wasn’t expecting that one!
“The Yanks probably would have saved a few (million) bucks had they done Mo & Po’s contracts before they expired.”
True. Annual salaries probably wouldn’t be all that different, but they would have stood a better than fair shot of dodging Posada’s 4th year.
* Jerkface, rather than Jerkoff. My bad.
Isn’t it amazing how Jeter always says the “right” things and the media just sits there thinking..”will this guy ever crack”? He really knows how to “play the game” with the media!
IMO normal buisness rules do not apply to players like Jeter.
(Sorry Rich).
I’ve got nothing against chain-yanking, but that was only part of it.
Nick in SF -
I did read the entire converation through, over coffee this morning. There was some good stuff in there. And I found points of agreement and disagreement for myself on both sides.
But, it’s sometimes like a tug-o-war and those kinds of topics tend to overtake the rest of the conversation. Sometimes, like last night, that’s fine. But today’s a new day. At least let it be a new topic for a little while – that was my request, really.
I’m reading through last night’s thread. Didn’t realize the discussion went on for another FOUR hours after I left.
I read this fun little nugget from randy,
“are you implying you have a higher IQ than us?”
Should I be nice or should I be honest? Lets go with half and half
Higher IQ is irrelevant so who knows? But I do think the younger guys that are into statistics are more intellectually adventuresome. By that, I mean that we are more open to new ideas and we actively seek out new ideas.
A lot of the people who don’t really like new statistics are intelligent people, they just don’t want to take the time or energy to learn new things because they have decades of experience analyzing baseball using older methods. “Why learn about vorps and wobas and all that nonsense? I’ve played baseball, I’ve watched baseball, I’ve been a fan for 30 years and we never cared about that nonsense!”
In this case it seems to be true that “You can’t teach old dogs new tricks”
Don’t take offense to this please, I do value everyone’s opinion on here especially guys like SJ44, randy, Pat M because they do have a lot of great experience. That’s still a valuable thing, I just wish they were more openminded on new methods of evaluation.
“For what reason?”
I asked the same thing the other day. A no comment from Jeter is the end of the conversation. A no comment from Alex is a story.
“Did Tiger’s name really come up?”
Did I miss that on the audio? Where?
“Wonder if that guy will ask Alex the same question?”
Did Alex introduce Tiger to one of his girlfriends too?
Seems to me that whenever his SS skills begin to show a decline, Jeter could and should become the full-time DH.
I realize that normally the DH is a thumper, a guy like Papi or Thome, but Paul Molitor DH’d his way into the HoF, and he was a singles-and-double-hitting, high-average, high OBP guy.
Jerkface
February 24th, 2010 at 10:18 am
It was somewhat revelatory
–
Only in determining who is arguing with a full deck
——
Jerkface, I’m sure you’re just trying to be funny, but it’s your remarks like that which make your adversaries think you are being elitist. Alongside the valid points you make, you shuffle in a few comments like “yahoos” and diminish your credibility. Not to imply that your adversaries always fight fair either.
m
Declaring yourself the winner last night?
Time zone advantage does not a winner make.
Patrick-
“Don’t take offense to this please, I do value everyone’s opinion on here especially guys like SJ44, randy, Pat M because they do have a lot of great experience. That’s still a valuable thing, I just wish they were more openminded on new methods of evaluation.”
Fair enough but what do you think they would wish about how Sabremetricians could improve the dialogue ? Anything ?
pat -
I didn’t hear any reference to Tiger, either.
Alongside the valid points you make, you shuffle in a few comments like “yahoos” and diminish your credibility.
–
The same yahoos who want all the saber people to leave the blog? Yes my opponents were arguing entirely in good faith and were incredibly reasonable
Chip
They don’t wait to avoid squabbles with other players. Cash has stated something to that effect regarding this season as in Jeter and Mo are no different than any other players and would be treated as all other Yanks who’ve approached FA have been in the past.
The reason teams try to resign players prior to said player hitting the open market is to try to save $ on the contracts by not having to compete with other bidders. It would behoova a team like the Twins or the Cards to re-up their stars before they have to compete with the likes of the Yanks or the RedSox for their services as they can’t compete on a $ scale with those teams.
That is never an issue for the Yanks as they are comfortable knowing that if push comes to shove they can write the biggest check if necessary.
The benefit to them is that it is possible that the player has an off year or an injury that affects his position in the market that following season that changes the way he’s viewed in the marketplace and the type of contract the market will award him.
As an example Xavier Nady….if the Yanks had decided prior to the ’09 season that they wanted to retain his services the upside to resigning him before his last year would have been very small but the downside as we could see now would be catastrophic as in having him now undercontract for like 8-10 mil a yr as opposed to the 3mil the Cubs got him for.
That is the main reasoning behind the principle of doing it the “Yankee way” but that in no way means that the Yanks are wishing that Jeter and Mo have bad years or injury plagued seasons as they would surely prefer that each has a career yr and lead us to another championship and they will be handsomely rewarded in kind.
Ca$h’s point regarding these two players is that these will be legacy contracts no matter what and no one else are real threats to steal the player or outbid us so why deviate from the established team ploicy or break the principle now.
New Post: First full-squad workout begins
“I heard if you say Bill James three times into your mirror, Randy comes to your house at night and sort of shouts at your window until morning.”
I cracked up at this
“Fair enough but what do you think they would wish about how Sabremetricians could improve the dialogue ? Anything ?”
Trying to think like randy is too scary for me to attempt.
Fair enough but what do you think they would wish about how Sabremetricians could improve the dialogue ? Anything ?
–
Probably removing numbers from the discussion.
Patrick -
The condescension in on both sides. Their experience is dismissed as “anecdotal” support of their opinions. However, in the case of Pat M, and randy l, if would seem they have a lot of experience to draw from. And anecdotal evidence is not inherently incorrect, and numerical evidence is not inherently correct.
You guys kinda end each argument with a statement to the effect of, you can say whatever you want, but if you don’t back it up with numbers it’s not valid and we aren’t going to listen to you. That’s not dialogue.
I think the “old school” as you guys frame it, is a little more open to the idea that statistics have a place in the game than you “saber” guys are to the idea that experience and observation are valid. It’s a matter of degree.
new post
serious question to you sabre guys out there…
what do you do w/ this info? do you pay attention to it during the game? do you use it to evaluate players this time of year when not much is going on? what is the purpose?
speaking only for myself, I am not anti-sabremetrics, I don’t mind learning something new if it adds to my enjoyment of the game. What I do mind is the tone of the arguments. We are all Yankee fans, save the insults for red sox fans!
“numerical evidence is not inherently correct”
I disagree. Math doesnn’t lie and isn’t biased if done properly.
“I think the “old school” as you guys frame it, is a little more open to the idea that statistics have a place in the game than you “saber” guys are to the idea that experience and observation are valid. It’s a matter of degree.”
That’s absurd. I still agree that scouting is more important/valuable that stats. I also say watching a fielder over the course of the year is a better measure than looking at UZR.
Jerkface -
You didn’t, apparently, finish reading my last sentence, where I specifically said, “not to imply your adversaries always fight fair either.”
This is what goes wrong with all of these arguments. both sides cherry pick the statements and arguments they want to reply to.
upstate kate,
We use statistics in much the same way other fans use classic statistics like avg, rbi, saves, etc.
LOL, Love Derek, gave em pure fluff, that they have nothing fit to print in their rags. Gotta love the Captain, not going to get any Manny Ramirez type comments from Derek.
You didn’t, apparently, finish reading my last sentence, where I specifically said, “not to imply your adversaries always fight fair either.”
–
Just randy’d your reply. Basically, i am just not going to argue 100% nicely with people who won’t do the same. No fun in it. If people can’t divorce a statement about Randy and some yahoos from the actual discussion that was taking place about clutch, then they are just looking to start a fight or an excuse to denigrate my arguments.
Patrick -
Math doesn’t like if the numbers behind it are correct. Statistics can and have been improperly analyzed, and can be “spun” to prove what one wants to prove. I’m not saying you are anyone here is doing that. You said math doesn’t lie. I’m saying but how one uses the math is not inherently correct.
As to the other statement. I said, it’s a matter of degree. SJ44, Pat M, randy l have all said they see statistics as a support; SJ44 specifically said statistics and their use is not the problem; the problems occur when statistics are misunderstood or misused.
For the record, I thought randy’s arguments last night were not his best and the example of Long and Cano working together as being evidence that there is “clutch” kinda didn’t work in my mind. I also didn’t think it was fair or correct that he said saber people don’t believe in coaching.
Overall, I think the argument over clutch is – I want to say silly, but I don’t mean silly.
** math doesn’t LIE** not like.
Sorry about that.
“they are just looking to start a fight or an excuse to denigrate my arguments”
Stop being so racist
classic
jerkface -
I am not looking to start a fight or to denigrate your arguments. Not at all.
The debate on both sides is diminished when the challenges are not to the argument, but to the intelligence of the opponent. It’s like there’s nothing left to argue, so let’s throw a punch or two.
The debate is diminished, not the root of the debate. I can make that distinction.
I think one of the problems is that arguing with anyone who wants to base their opinions/positions on experience by definition must become part of the argument itself. They want statements to be believed based on the assumed credibility from being in the game a long time, watching the game a long time, etc.
Where as, from a statistical side, the idea of Jerkface is completely unrelated to the information I’m giving. Anyone could make my arguments if they were to look at the numbers.
That is something that makes it hard to debate, especially on the internet. The stat side will always have the impartiality of statistics and numbers, while the experience side is trying to use credibility that is very difficult to give to people on a messageboard with no proof of ID or anything.
Bringing “yourself” into the debate is also difficult, because as these discussions have proved, many of the old school crowd can be insufferable, purposely obtuse, or disengenuous.
“Chip February 24th, 2010 at 9:10 am
My 12 pitchers
CC, AJ, Andy, Javy, Hughes
RHP: Mo, Joba, Aceves, Robertson, Park
LHP: Logan, Marte
By taking a second LHP the Yankees can use Marte in a variety of ways rather than just keeping him as a LH specialist.”
+++++++++++++++++++++
Chip the Yankees do not need to carry Boone Logan if he is not fit for the role, until he proves so consistently in Scranton this season and is called up.
The Yankees have more than enough players who are versatile enough to get lefties out.
Aceves is good against lefties – Holding them to 32 hits in 151 at bats, 3 HR, 16 RBI, .212 AVG
Robertson is good against lefties – Holding them to 14 hits in 74 at bats, 2 HR, 6 RBI, .189 AVG
Marte is good against lefties even in his limited time and struggles last season – Holding them to 3 hits in 25 at bats, 1 HR 7 RBI, .120 AVG and he wasn’t healthy most of the year as we know
Hughes was good against lefties
Rivera we all know is death on lefties and with the game on the line they are going to him as always, no doubt.
The strength of the Yankees pen is the versatility of the guys in it this coming season. They don’t need that second lefty, because as above showed they have enough arms in the pen in
Ace, Robertson, Marte, Hughes, Rivera that are highly effective against lefty hitters.
I much rather have a pen of
Gaudin – R – I prefer Gaudin because he pitched decently for us and has strikeout ability
Park – R – We’re looking at Park around the 5th, 6th inning for Short Relief
Aceves – R – Ace we know what he did last season, he can throw multiple innings, 1 inning, 1 batter
Robertson – R – 7th inning strikeout arm to get to Hughes or Joba in the 8th, also as I mentioned very effective against lefties
Marte – L – Primary lefty that we can only hope is healthy from day one, unlike last season
Hughes or Joba – R – setup
Rivera – R – closer
than force a Boone Logan in there, unless he earns it, way mor guys are ahead of him on the depth chart.
Jerkface -
I have a few times said here that the guys with experience who say unless you’ve played the game you can’t understand the game, are being unfair and, as far as the female readership here goes, pretty dismissive.
I will acknowledge, always, that there are things I can never know about the game that people who have been involved with the game at some professional level do. And I will defer to that experience at times. However, I think it is wrong to insinuate if a person hasn’t played the game they can’t know the game at all. I see this frustration in the debates you have with them.
I would go so far as to say there are guys who played the game who cared not one spit about the playing of the game beyond their own at-bat. Having played the game doesn’t necessarily make one an expert on all aspects of the game.
Much of the time, I can see both sides’ point of view. And to me, the answer is a simple, experience and data both play an important role in baseball, but sometimes they change dominant positions, so to speak.
M- you said some most righteous things last night.