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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Thames can opt out

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Feb 26, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Thames

In a way, veteran Marcus Thames and Rule 5 pick Jamie Hoffmann are in the same boat this spring. They’re both right-handed outfielders who will either make the major league roster, or likely won’t be in the Yankees organization at all.

Hoffmann has to stick on the 25-man roster or else be offered back to the Dodgers. Thames signed a minor league contract, but he can opt out if he doesn’t make the major league roster.

“He was brought in to compete for a spot on the 25-man roster,” general manager Brian Cashman said. “And at the end of camp, if he makes it, great. If he doesn’t make it, he’s free.”

Thames has big time power from the right side, and he has considerable experience at the major league level. Hoffmann is a better defensive player, with considerable upside if he can stick around.

“It’s his spot to lose,” Cashman said. “Hoffmann is on the 25, with restrictions. He’s like an out-of-options guy. He either makes it or he loses it.”

Although Hoffmann is “like an out-of-options guy,” he actually does have options remaining. If he makes it through this season on the big league roster, the Yankees can option Hoffmann to Triple-A next season.

 
 

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158 Responses to “Thames can opt out”

  1. stuckey February 26th, 2010 at 4:44 pm

    But who would you rather have batting second? Hoffman or Thames?

  2. blake February 26th, 2010 at 4:47 pm

    I think Brent Gardner should hit 2nd.

  3. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! February 26th, 2010 at 4:48 pm

    Doreen is exactly right and it’s one of the things I love about Joe G. He is not afraid to play with the lineup when need be!

    Until then, ladies and gentlemen, your Opening Day Lineup!!!

    Jeter
    Granderson
    Tex
    Arod
    Jorge
    Robby
    NJ
    Swish
    Gardy/Winn

  4. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day February 26th, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    So does that mean that Thames actually has to be much better than Hoffman? That unless Hoffman screws up, he’s on the team? Can Thames stay if he doesn’t make the team, knowing there’s a good chance he’d be called up? That seems kind of weird to me – all backwards. Thames has good MLB experience while Hoffman hasn’t done squat, it’s the latter’s job to lose simply because otherwise he goes back to LA?

  5. Rich in NJ February 26th, 2010 at 4:51 pm

    I will never take having power for granted again.

  6. Rich in NJ February 26th, 2010 at 4:52 pm

    “But who would you rather have batting second? Hoffman or Thames?”

    “I think Brent Gardner should hit 2nd.”

    The havoc that Damon’s absence has wrought continues……………….

  7. Tony February 26th, 2010 at 4:52 pm

    Give it to Hoffman, he’s younger, faster and more upside. Thames is washed up. We don’t need more older players on this team. Hoffman can give you a nice energetic bat off the bench, pinch run, and play a solid outfield with much more speed. Makes your bench more versatile

  8. Rich in NJ February 26th, 2010 at 4:55 pm

    “Give it to Hoffman, he’s younger, faster and more upside. Thames is washed up. ”

    Why truncate the competition?

  9. Chad Jennings February 26th, 2010 at 4:56 pm

    As long as he’s in camp, Hoffmann is on the roster. That’s the way it has to be. Thames has a minor league deal, so he doesn’t have to opt out, but it would be surprising if he stayed and accepted that assignment. He would have to really believe a call-up was coming.

    I still think it’s an even competition between those two. Hoffmann has the job right now, but if the Yankees decide Thames is a better option, they’ll carry him instead. Hoffmann’s on the roster — that’s why it’s his job to lose — but that can change.

  10. blake February 26th, 2010 at 4:57 pm

    Rich,

    Brent is the better hitting alter ego of Brett.

  11. Carl February 26th, 2010 at 4:57 pm

    Why would you need Hoffman when you have Winn/Gardner. We need Power on the bench. Keep Thames.

  12. Erica - always OPPC February 26th, 2010 at 4:59 pm

    m
    February 26th, 2010 at 4:52 pm
    Waiting to see if Erica can guess it first.
    ***********

    I don’t know! :cry:

    Pretend…. LC

  13. Rich in NJ February 26th, 2010 at 4:59 pm

    blake,

    I totally missed that. I’m just getting thawed out after a power outage.

  14. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! February 26th, 2010 at 5:00 pm

    Rich, the havoc is wrought only with those fans who can’t get over Damon no longer being here. You can bet the Yankee organization isn’t wringing its hands over who’ll bat 2nd!

    :D

  15. Erica - always OPPC February 26th, 2010 at 5:00 pm

    Rich in NJ
    February 26th, 2010 at 4:52 pm
    “But who would you rather have batting second? Hoffman or Thames?”

    “I think Brent Gardner should hit 2nd.”

    The havoc that Damon’s absence has wrought continues……………….
    ***************

    Can we trade with Detoit in the spirit of blog peace??
    (Totally unselfishly for Erica)

  16. Erin February 26th, 2010 at 5:01 pm

    Just flipped my calendar at work so I’ll be all ready for Monday, and so you’re all aware, March is officially Nick Swisher month. :)

  17. stuckey February 26th, 2010 at 5:02 pm

    A fairly interesting mental exercise for the people who believe Granderson’s speed trumps Johnson’s extra OBP, is to figure out if Garnder’s speed trumps Granderson’s extra OBP.

    I doubt anyone would risk it, however…

  18. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day February 26th, 2010 at 5:02 pm

    I guess maybe he decided to take a chance with the Yankees because he wanted to return, knowing that if it didn’t work out, some other team would surely sign him. That makes sense…..

    Hoffman sounds intriguing to me. If Thames has a good spring, why not have him make the team and try and work out a deal with the Dodgers (so that Hoffman could be sent to AAA)?

  19. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day February 26th, 2010 at 5:03 pm

    Oops, I meant to thank you Chad – thanks!

  20. GreenBeret7 February 26th, 2010 at 5:04 pm

    You have to think that the 24th and 25th (pitcher and defense/offense) spots comes down to injuries more than production. It almost always does.

  21. Rich in NJ February 26th, 2010 at 5:04 pm

    I think Erica has proposed a viable soluaion, trisha. :)

  22. Jerkface February 26th, 2010 at 5:04 pm

    A fairly interesting mental exercise for the people who believe Granderson’s speed trumps Johnson’s extra OBP, is to figure out if Garnder’s speed trumps Granderson’s extra OBP.

    They get on base around the same amount, so it’d really be gardner’s speed vs granderson’s power.

  23. m February 26th, 2010 at 5:05 pm

    Life Coach!

  24. Erica - always OPPC February 26th, 2010 at 5:06 pm

    m
    February 26th, 2010 at 5:05 pm
    Life Coach!
    ****************

    DUH!!!

    Thank you m, PLC

  25. Fran (the original) and OPPC member February 26th, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    I think Gardner should be batting 9th so you have speed at the top and bottom of the line-up when it turns over.

  26. Pat M. February 26th, 2010 at 5:13 pm

    Jerkface, in closing, regardless of the on base advantage that Nick has, Granderson outscores him on average 105 to 86….Granderson just manages to cross the plate more, and scoring runs is in the final anaylsis is the name of the game……Stuckey, the Garndner reference is an attempt to grab some straws…Not really your style

  27. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! February 26th, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    Rich, until the Yankees do it I will keep Granderson pencilled in in the two hole.

    :)

  28. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! February 26th, 2010 at 5:15 pm

    Fran, of course you’re right!

    :)

  29. Tony February 26th, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    Hoffman has power and gives you more than Thames, its a no brainer

  30. Tony February 26th, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    Hoffman has power and gives you more than Thames, its a no brainer

  31. Erica - always OPPC February 26th, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    Fran (the original) and OPPC member
    February 26th, 2010 at 5:10 pm
    I think Gardner should be batting 9th so you have speed at the top and bottom of the line-up when it turns over.
    **************

    I agree with this.

    If I were making a line up it would look like this:

    Derek Jeter SS
    Nick Johnson DH
    Mark Texiera 1B
    Alex Rodriguez 3B
    Curtis Granderson CF
    Jorge Posada C
    Robinson Cano 2B
    Nick Swisher RF
    Brett Gardner LF

    That is of course, pending any trades for Johnny Damon :-)

  32. stuckey February 26th, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    What’s my style Pat?? :-)

  33. Fran (the original) and OPPC member February 26th, 2010 at 5:19 pm

    Trisha,

    Only agreeing with the line-up you posted earlier!

    Actually have a break in the snow. It just stopped, but I don’t think we are done yet.

  34. Fran (the original) and OPPC member February 26th, 2010 at 5:20 pm

    Erica,

    Is that the first entry for this season’s GTLU?

  35. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! February 26th, 2010 at 5:20 pm

    I will ask this question again. Please tell me the last time the Yankees had turtles at the top of their lineup.

    Thank you. The answer would be never.

    Granderson it is.

    :)

  36. Erica - always OPPC February 26th, 2010 at 5:22 pm

    Fran (the original) and OPPC member
    February 26th, 2010 at 5:20 pm
    Erica,

    Is that the first entry for this season’s GTLU?
    ************

    Maybe :-)

    Very excited to actually play GTLU this year instead of frantically trying to track them all. And I totally did consider myself an expert on Yankee line ups by the time the season ended. LOL

    I have a feeling Girardi will be dropping some hints on how he is thinking towards the end of spring training

  37. Erica - always OPPC February 26th, 2010 at 5:22 pm

    trisha – OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!!
    February 26th, 2010 at 5:20 pm
    I will ask this question again. Please tell me the last time the Yankees had turtles at the top of their lineup.
    **************

    Jason Giambi was a #3 hitter. I am pretty sure he wasn’t known for speed

  38. Erica - always OPPC February 26th, 2010 at 5:23 pm

    Erin-

    “I Don’t Want to Live on the Moon” just came on my ipod!! :-)

  39. timo February 26th, 2010 at 5:23 pm

    If the Yanks like Thames and want to take a longer look at Hoffmann, they can always send Gardner to triple A. Hoffmann can back up all the OF positions, is fast enough to pinch run and is a very good bunter. He can’t hit but that’s not a point of contrast with BG either.

    As for the two spot, Cashman said that Boras told him he couldn’t find a number 2 hitter for less than $13M and, after signing Johnson, Cashman told Boras he got one for half that. Perhaps an indicator of his opinion on the subject.

  40. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! February 26th, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    Fran, absolutely we want speed at the top and the bottom. And we want the players who are going to cross the plate the most closer to the top of the lineup, or in the first 4. You can’t afford to have someone like a Posada, or a Molina, or a Johnson high up in the lineup. They cause a bottleneck and cut down on the scoring potential.

    That’s why our lineup is going to take the day!

    :D

  41. Rick February 26th, 2010 at 5:25 pm

    There will be 25 exhibition games played out of a 32 game schedule (including “B” ganes) before Joe Girardi and his coaching staff have formed opinions as to who will bat where and who will stay and go.
    Much too early to make determinations.

  42. Fran (the original) and OPPC member February 26th, 2010 at 5:26 pm

    I have a feeling Girardi will be dropping some hints on how he is thinking towards the end of spring training
    **********************
    I agree. Remember last season he didn’t flip Jeter and Damon until later on and some were all over him for the switch. Turned out to be a key move.

  43. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! February 26th, 2010 at 5:26 pm

    Erica, the answer to that is pretty obvious. Giambi, the AL MVP came to the Yankees because of his potential to hit the ball to China. Three is a power position. I have already stated that the one and two holes are speed and power starts after that.

  44. blake February 26th, 2010 at 5:27 pm

    Gatorade dumped Tiger.

  45. mick February 26th, 2010 at 5:27 pm

    How in hell does Francesa give “sex-addicted” Phillips 2 1/2 hours of his show? Ratings? Someone please explain.

  46. Erica - always OPPC February 26th, 2010 at 5:28 pm

    Trisha-

    My guess is Girardi will experiment a little bit with both ways as ST goes on. Thats the beauty of exhibition games :-)

  47. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! February 26th, 2010 at 5:28 pm

    Rick of course it is. But in making those determinations I don’t think they will lose sight of what type of player they need in the different holes.

  48. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day February 26th, 2010 at 5:28 pm

    Hoffman has proven nothing in the big leagues; it’s hardly a no-brainer that he make the team

  49. blake February 26th, 2010 at 5:29 pm

    Opening Day lineup:

    Jeter
    Granderson
    Teixera
    Arod
    Cano
    Posada
    Johnson
    Swisher
    Winn/Gardner.

    I saw it in my Flashforward.

  50. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day February 26th, 2010 at 5:30 pm

    I know Mike said he was going to give Phillips all the time he wanted, but 2 1/2 hours? LOL I’m happier than ever that I didn’t listen to him today

  51. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! February 26th, 2010 at 5:30 pm

    Erica sure he will. As Rick stated, determinations will be made based on what he sees in ST. I have a feeling that Jorge is going to end up in the 5 spot only because I have a feeling that he is going to kill in ST. (One of those gut feelings.) But it will interesting to see how the whole thing plays out.

  52. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! February 26th, 2010 at 5:32 pm

    blake – we’re pretty close with our lineups.

  53. Erica - always OPPC February 26th, 2010 at 5:32 pm

    blake
    February 26th, 2010 at 5:29 pm

    I saw it in my Flashforward.
    ****************

    LOL. I hate that show, but I can’t stop watching it!!

    I wish it would come back on already! I would be shocked if it has a 2nd season

  54. blake February 26th, 2010 at 5:33 pm

    Erica,

    Its funny but thats kinda how I feel about it. I don’t really like it that much but I keep watching it for some reason when its on…weird.

  55. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day February 26th, 2010 at 5:33 pm

    http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/.....e-running/

    Is it usual for a pitcher to have a hard time with his curve early in the spring?

  56. Erica - always OPPC February 26th, 2010 at 5:36 pm

    blake
    February 26th, 2010 at 5:33 pm
    Erica,

    Its funny but thats kinda how I feel about it. I don’t really like it that much but I keep watching it for some reason when its on…weird.
    ****************

    Every single character on the show is annoying, but the concept is fascinating! LOL

    I think it comes back at the end of April. I am having panic attacks trying to figure out how I am going to get through the first month of baseball season- with wrapping up busy season and my highly extreme TV watching schedule

  57. Alan February 26th, 2010 at 5:37 pm

    Cashman said right after the championship was won that the 2010 team would be more flexible and a little younger than the 2009 team and it shows because of his moves.
    The “core four” and Alex are another year older but none hinder the team from being in a good position to repeat.

  58. blake February 26th, 2010 at 5:39 pm

    “Every single character on the show is annoying, but the concept is fascinating! LOL”

    At first I thought, oh cool maybe this will be kinda like Lost but not so much…

  59. Phil the Thrill February 26th, 2010 at 5:39 pm

    We have OBP Jesus and SLG Jesus. No other team can go up against our divinity.

  60. MTU February 26th, 2010 at 5:40 pm

    Against RH pitchers:

    Jeter
    Grandy
    Tex
    A-Rod
    Posada
    Cano
    Swish
    NJ
    Gardy

    Against LH Picthing:

    Jeter
    NJ
    Tex
    A-Rod
    Posada
    Grandy
    Swish
    Cano
    Winn

  61. GreenBeret7 February 26th, 2010 at 5:43 pm

    Gotta love those crazy lady Canucks.

    The women’s Gold Medal hockey team is getting hammered for celebrating on the ice for smoking cigars and drinking after the game and people had left. More stupidity from the fools in charge. Let ‘em celebrate. They earned the right.

  62. lets go yankees February 26th, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    Cashman already said NJ was the 2 hitter.

    If that was in doubt he would not have come out and said that.

  63. Rich in NJ February 26th, 2010 at 5:45 pm

    I really don’t want Gardner platooned. He hit LHP very well:

    v. L: 0.292 0.361 0.406 0.767
    v. R: 0.288 0.398 0.373 0.771

    Let the kid sink or swim.

  64. Rich in NJ February 26th, 2010 at 5:46 pm

    Edit: LHP very well in the mLs

  65. mick February 26th, 2010 at 5:46 pm

    No thoughts on Phillips from anybody? Except Betsy, of course.

    Don’t downplay Thames. He wouldn’t have been invited if there were no serious interest. I think Girardi meant to say it was his job to lose not Hoffmanns.

  66. Rich in NJ February 26th, 2010 at 5:47 pm

    Steve Phillips would take the RS starting five over the Yankees’ starting five.

    I’m feeling very confident.

    He also wants both Joba and Hughes in the pen.

    OMG

  67. blake February 26th, 2010 at 5:48 pm

    “Cashman already said NJ was the 2 hitter.”

    I’m pretty sure if Cashman was asked who the #2 hitter this time last year he would have said Jeter. Girardi will make that call during or after ST.

  68. Rich in NJ February 26th, 2010 at 5:49 pm

    mick

    I would never judge another person’s problems. Their stupid baseball opinions, however, are fair game.

  69. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day February 26th, 2010 at 5:49 pm

    http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....8;c_id=nyy

  70. MTU February 26th, 2010 at 5:49 pm

    Rich-

    Girardi loves his matchups is all Im saying with those lineups.

    I’m cool with GGBG getting his chance.

  71. Pat M. February 26th, 2010 at 5:49 pm

    Does Brian Cashman makeout the lineups ???? Where’s CF Bubba Crosby ??? Come Lets go Yankees, that’s a weak validation….

  72. Tom in NJ February 26th, 2010 at 5:49 pm

    The Dodgers need a 5th starter right?

    How about a Mitre or Gaudin trade for Hoffmann?

  73. mick February 26th, 2010 at 5:52 pm

    Phillips hates the Yanks more than Gammons.

    He must have wanted Cash’s job but was ,of course, spurned.

  74. MTU February 26th, 2010 at 5:52 pm

    Tom-

    Exactly what I was thinking.

    But only Mitre not Gaudin. :)

  75. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day February 26th, 2010 at 5:53 pm

    Pat M, Phil said his breaking pitches (well, his curve, I suppose) were bouncing too much for his liking today. Is it normal for the curve to be a bit shaky this early in the spring?

  76. Rich in NJ February 26th, 2010 at 5:53 pm

    There isn’t a GM or a prospective GM who wouldn’t want Cash’s job.

  77. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day February 26th, 2010 at 5:53 pm

    See, I hate this, lol. Now I’m analyzing even BP sessions because every little thing counts in this competition.

  78. Phil the Thrill February 26th, 2010 at 5:53 pm

    Cashman had wanter Jeter batting first for a long time.

  79. MTU February 26th, 2010 at 5:55 pm

    Betsy-

    “May the best man win”.

    It could be Phil. ;)

  80. blake February 26th, 2010 at 5:55 pm

    “Cashman had wanter Jeter batting first for a long time.”

    That may be true but theres a reason he didn’t, because its not his decision once the real games start.

  81. lets go yankees February 26th, 2010 at 5:56 pm

    It is not a validation for NJ hitting there. It is just what reality is. Cashman acquired NJ to be his 2 hitter and paid him with that in mind.

    Bubba Crosby is a different story because the team was not set yet and it was in his advantage to say that.

    Here Cashman gains nothing from saying NJ is the 2 hitter. If there was any doubt who would be there on opening day between him and Girardi, Cash would have said something along the lines of we will make those decisions in spring training. But he did not.

  82. Rich in NJ February 26th, 2010 at 5:57 pm

    I think Girardi is probably more receptive to Cash’ suggestions than Torre was. Torre became like the rooster that took credit for the sunrise.

  83. Jerkface February 26th, 2010 at 5:58 pm

    Cashman said he brought in NJ to be the #2 hitter. Thats a lot different than ‘Crosby WILL BE our CF’ *signs Damon*

    He is saying the player he signed was specifically brought in for the 2 hole because of his onbase. It might not work out that way, but its not the same as the crosby thing.

  84. Pat M. February 26th, 2010 at 6:02 pm

    Betsy,Pitchers are just getting thru the first week of fastballs….Offspeed takes time, but as Young Master Hughes mentioned, rather keep in down that on a hanger

  85. MTU February 26th, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    Whatever lineup Girardi decides upon on a given day be sure of this:

    Over the course of the season the Yankees are gonna pound out a lot of runs. ;)

  86. mick February 26th, 2010 at 6:04 pm

    rich

    judge his problems? what does that have to do with giving him a forum for 3 hours for his “sex addiction?”

  87. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! February 26th, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    Betsy, it is not unusual for a pitcher to be working on pitches right now. In fact it is more unusual if he isn’t. Not a thing in the world to worry about. Phil will be fine.

    Jerkface you are right.

    Let’s Go, I will bet you dollars to donuts that Cashman was speaking euphemistically when he said that. That was his way of saying that he had gotten his DH and it was no longer Damon. I don’t think a GM EVER would make a unilateral decision about where a player would be slotted into the lineup, short of an Alex Rodriguez.

  88. mick February 26th, 2010 at 6:06 pm

    Torre became a prima donna. BFF with the Mayor. He went Hollywood.

  89. Pat M. February 26th, 2010 at 6:06 pm

    And to think, I’ve been presenting all thses reasons for Granderson to hit 2nd, and now you guys played your trump card….Because the GM said so back in December….Can’t wait until the blue yells, ”Play Ball”…Then it all will unfold

  90. GreenBeret7 February 26th, 2010 at 6:07 pm

    If a GM starts injecting his demands on the line-ups, that’s a failure waiting to happen. I doubt that Cashman’s insisting on it, only stating his preference. If he insists on it being his way, Girardi will walk at the end of the year. That’s no different than Girardi how run run his front office.

  91. Jerkface February 26th, 2010 at 6:09 pm

    I think it is telling that acquiring Granderson was one of the first real moves Cashman made, and instead of signing a slugger or someone to hit in the 5 spot he got a guy more suited for the 2 spot.

    The Yankees lost Matsui and Damon, and I think in HIS mind, Cashman thought getting Granderson cleared up the 5 spot because of his power and Nick Johnson covered the on base and consistency that would be missed with Damon’s departure.

    Girardi might change it up, but I think its strange that if Granderson is destined for the 2 hole, why Cashman didn’t get a more dangerous hitter to sit in the 5.

  92. Rich in NJ February 26th, 2010 at 6:09 pm

    mick

    If Steve Phillips says he has a sex addiction, and Francesa thinks it’s worth discussing, I’m fine with that.

  93. Rick February 26th, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    As always, the invitees and lesser players of the 40-man roster will be given opportunities to show what they can do but until the 1st wave of cuts are made, the hitters face AA and AAA pitching and the pitchers are facing AA and AAA hitters.
    On or about March 18th, pitchers arms are more stretched out and throw more innings and the projected position players going north get more at bats and get replaced in the 8th inning rather than the 4th inning by players that the manager still wants to see more of.
    If a marginal player is still around during the last week of March, it becomes a tough decision for any manager to make whether to keep or cut.
    As of now the Yankee infield is set. Right field is set. The catching is set. The 1-4 starters are set. Anywhere from 1-3 bullpen roles need to be judged. LF – CF will be watched closely as will be the No. 5 starter. Girardi will experiment with the batting order.
    No point in mentioning names for another 3 weeks.

  94. Carl February 26th, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    Steve Phillips sounds good on wfan talking baseball

  95. lets go yankees February 26th, 2010 at 6:11 pm

    It was not a unilateral decision.

    He said he would be hitting 2nd a few days ago.

    My point was if he was not sure about that (which means Girardi told him that or they made the decision together) he would not have said that.

    I was not saying Cashman made the decision

  96. Jerkface February 26th, 2010 at 6:11 pm

    If a GM starts injecting his demands on the line-ups, that’s a failure waiting to happen. I doubt that Cashman’s insisting on it, only stating his preference. If he insists on it being his way, Girardi will walk at the end of the year. That’s no different than Girardi how run run his front office.

    Of course it is ultimately up to the manager, but the GM doesn’t just grab 8 guys and say have at it. Specific roles are looked for, leadoff hitter, 3 hole, cleanup, 5 hole, 2 hole. The only positions that aren’t actively looked after are the 6,7,8,and 9 spots because that just goes to your lesser hitters (or in the Yankees case, “the rest”).

  97. Chad Jennings February 26th, 2010 at 6:11 pm

    Yes, I think it’s pretty normal for a picture to struggle with his breaking ball this early in camp. Hughes also said today that any problems he’s having right now are par for the course considering we’re a week and a half into spring training.

  98. GreenBeret7 February 26th, 2010 at 6:12 pm

    Correction”

    That’s no different than Girardi ***telling Cashman how to run*** his front office.

  99. MTU February 26th, 2010 at 6:13 pm

    Cashman provides the tools for the toolbox.

    Girardi decides how to utilize them.

  100. mick February 26th, 2010 at 6:13 pm

    rich

    francesa is doing this for ratings and because its his show and he does what he wants….phillips should not be on for 3 1/2 hours discussing his “problem.”

    Talk about self-serving motives. He probably needs a job and used 3 1/2 hours to “apologize.” You’re ok with that?

  101. Rich in NJ February 26th, 2010 at 6:13 pm

    I’m not sure that Cash had a fixed lineup spot in mind for Granderson. I think he recognized that the OF was weak, that he wasn’t willing to pay Damon his likely asking price, that AJack may not be the hitter that they once thought (at least not in 2010), and that Granderson, coming off a bad season, was an undervalued asset.

  102. Fran (the original) and OPPC member February 26th, 2010 at 6:13 pm

    Cashman thought getting Granderson cleared up the 5 spot because of his power
    ******************
    I am not sure about that. I see Posada or Cano batting in the 5th spot. I like Granderson in the 2 hole but if not I see him batting 6 or 7.

  103. Jerkface February 26th, 2010 at 6:13 pm

    That’s no different than Girardi ***telling Cashman how to run*** his front office.

    it could be that Cashman and Girardi + Staff are making decisions together. In which case I think it’d be appropriate for Girardi to suggest guys to go after, or needs to fill. The organization meetings include the manager after all.

  104. Rich in NJ February 26th, 2010 at 6:14 pm

    Yes, mick, I’m ok with it.

  105. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day February 26th, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    Pat M and Chad, thanks! That’s what I assumed and ordinarily I would NEVER think to be concerned (not that I’m concerned). It’s just that everything these kids do is being scrutinized to the nth degree..it’s driving me crazy, lol.

    MTU, I hope it is Phil, lol. We shall see…

  106. MTU February 26th, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    Jerkface-

    I absolutely agree with that.

    The only person who really has the final say is Hal IMO.

    It’s his money.

  107. GreenBeret7 February 26th, 2010 at 6:16 pm

    Chad Jennings
    February 26th, 2010 at 6:11 pm
    Yes, I think it’s pretty normal for a picture to struggle with his breaking ball this early in camp. Hughes also said today that any problems he’s having right now are par for the course considering we’re a week and a half into spring training

    ————————————————————

    You’ve got a long way to go in catching up to my Gold Medal run of typos, Chad. You need more practice. I can loan you my special dictionary. accept it at your own risk, though.

  108. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! February 26th, 2010 at 6:16 pm

    Let’s Go, I’d like the link to the quote from Cashman a few days ago saying that Johnson was hitting in the 2 hole.

    Jerkface, how much more dangerous as player do you need in the 5 hole than the ones the Yankees already have? Posada is as clutch as they come and if NJ is so fabulous with his OBP, he could easily fit the 5 hole.

  109. mick February 26th, 2010 at 6:17 pm

    rich

    then I hope you enjoyed the “show.”

  110. Rich in NJ February 26th, 2010 at 6:17 pm

    mick

    I’m just happy to have my power back on.

  111. lets go yankees February 26th, 2010 at 6:18 pm

    Jerkface,

    I agree. It seems Cashman and Girardi work very closely. Cashman has emphasized in recent years making more organized and well-rounded decisions.

    I would be very surprised if Girardi was not consulted before acquiring NJ.

  112. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day February 26th, 2010 at 6:18 pm

    Trish, very true. I just want to clarify that I am in NO way concerned. My question was really just a question……I’m nice and relaxed, lol

  113. raymagnetic - Wins are nothing - FIP is everything! February 26th, 2010 at 6:18 pm

    “They get on base around the same amount, so it’d really be gardner’s speed vs granderson’s power.”

    Gardner has 425 plate appearances in the majors. Are you really saying he’s going to get on base as much as Granderson from this point forward?

    It’s folly to even compare the two because we have no idea what Gardner can or can’t do in a full season.

    What we do know however is that Granderson’s OBP in 07 and 08 was above .360.

  114. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! February 26th, 2010 at 6:19 pm

    By the way I’m not doubting you as much as it is that I’ve been out of the loop and am also from the Show Me state. I always have to read things for myself, in case there are others things in there or other ways to interpret an article.

  115. mick February 26th, 2010 at 6:19 pm

    ……I’m nice and relaxed, lol

    ———————————–
    Betsy, have you reinvented yourself or something?

  116. Bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes February 26th, 2010 at 6:23 pm

    You’ve got a long way to go in catching up to my Gold Medal run of typos, Chad. You need more practice. I can loan you my special dictionary. accept it at your own risk, though.
    ===

    He’s on deadline. What’s your excuse?

  117. Jerkface February 26th, 2010 at 6:23 pm

    Jerkface, how much more dangerous as player do you need in the 5 hole than the ones the Yankees already have? Posada is as clutch as they come and if NJ is so fabulous with his OBP, he could easily fit the 5 hole.

    I like the 5 hole guy to be a hitter, not necessarily an on base guy. I love on base guys, but the Cleanup and 5 spot should probably be getting hits and hitting for power.

    Nick Johnson would be ok in the 5 spot, but unless he bounces back with more power this year its mostly going to be singles, walks, and doubles. And we’ll be wasting a potential 42% on base batter by placing him infront of Cano+Posada+Swisher, which is : a guy that hits a lot of doubles which might not score NJ, a very excellent hitter in Posada who isn’t going to play every game, and a guy who is better at turning the lineup over and hitting the occasional HR than anything. Once you’ve gone through these 3 you are either at Cervelli+Gardner or just Gardner.

    Thats weak in my opinion.

    Jeter-NJ-Alex-Tex-Granderson-Cano-Posada-Swisher-Gardner to me is the best lineup because NJ isn’t slow enough to completely burn the guys after him (Tex isnt fast either anyways), and Granderson has far more power than NJ and Cano+Posada hit a ton of doubles.

  118. mick February 26th, 2010 at 6:24 pm

    rich

    you a met fan?

  119. lets go yankees February 26th, 2010 at 6:25 pm

    trisha,

    It was in a radio interview and I cannot find the transcript. However, several Yankee blogs have written articles on it following the interview. I will link the one from RAB.

    http://riveraveblues.com/page/3/

  120. Bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes February 26th, 2010 at 6:25 pm

    t’s folly to even compare the two because we have no idea what Gardner can or can’t do in a full season.
    ====

    Well, we do have an idea. And it ain’t pretty.

  121. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! February 26th, 2010 at 6:25 pm

    I couldn’t find any quotes from Cashman, but I did find this from Heyman, published on February 20th.

    “Girardi named Johnson and Granderson as the primary candidates to replace Damon in that coveted No. 2 hole between high MVP finishers Jeter and Teixeira (word is the Yankees absolutely love Johnson, he of the .426 on-base percentage last year, batting second). Posada and Robinson Cano look like the main candidates to bat behind cleanup man Alex Rodriguez with Nick Swisher behind them, with Granderson sometimes at No. 8 and Brett Gardner at No. 9.”

    Doesn’t sound like anything’s been decided yet.

  122. GreenBeret7 February 26th, 2010 at 6:26 pm

    Nobody’s doubting that Girardi wasn’t consulted about getting Johnson, but, I doubt that it was specifically as a #2 hitter only.

  123. Rich in NJ February 26th, 2010 at 6:26 pm

    mick…mick…mick…

  124. raymagnetic - Wins are nothing - FIP is everything! February 26th, 2010 at 6:26 pm

    “Here Cashman gains nothing from saying NJ is the 2 hitter.”

    At the moment he made the statement he was still negotiating with Johnny Damon, no?

    I think they call that leverage.

    By the way, Robinson Cano age 26 season 331 Total Bases and 129 OPS+

    Chase Utley Age 26 season 293 total bases 132 OPS+

    I’m just saying……

  125. Jerkface February 26th, 2010 at 6:26 pm

    Trisha, in an interview with XM Radio on Tuesday he said that he brought in NJ to be the 2 spot. It was also mentioned to refute Scott Boras’ claim that the Yankees need to sign damon for the 2.

  126. pat February 26th, 2010 at 6:27 pm

    mick

    They’ve been talking baseball for almost an hour and a half.

  127. mick February 26th, 2010 at 6:27 pm

    rich

    opening day next Wed. on Yes 1 pm.

  128. Pat M. February 26th, 2010 at 6:28 pm

    42 % on base %……Wow,I hope you guys are right, only because the disappointment will be painful

  129. GreenBeret7 February 26th, 2010 at 6:29 pm

    Bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
    February 26th, 2010 at 6:23 pm
    You’ve got a long way to go in catching up to my Gold Medal run of typos, Chad. You need more practice. I can loan you my special dictionary. accept it at your own risk, though.
    ===

    He’s on deadline. What’s your excuse?

    ————————————————————

    I have a deadline, too. I need to get the words out before I forget what I was going to type.

  130. mick February 26th, 2010 at 6:29 pm

    pat

    i can’t stand phillips, the ultimate yankee hater.

  131. lets go yankees February 26th, 2010 at 6:29 pm

    If Cashman was looking for a bat to hit 5-7, I am not sure NJ would have been the guy he signed.

  132. Jerkface February 26th, 2010 at 6:29 pm

    Utley at 26: .291 .376 .540 .915 39 2b 28 HR
    Cano at 26 .320 .352 .520 .871 48 2b 25 HR

    Its not really that similiar. Cano hit for a higher average, Utley walked more while still hitting for a high average. Both have tremendous power.

    Utley’s skills are better on a year to year basis, as Cano is very dependent on actually hitting to be successful.

    They are both good, but Utley is the cream of the crop at 2B. Here is to Cano flourishing this year!

  133. Bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes February 26th, 2010 at 6:31 pm

    I have a deadline, too. I need to get the words out before I forget what I was going to type.
    =====

    I really did laugh out loud. :D

  134. Jerkface February 26th, 2010 at 6:31 pm

    42 % on base %……Wow,I hope you guys are right, only because the disappointment will be painful

    As painful for you if Granderson continues to flounder vs lefties? Come on, Dude, his on base the last 3 years

    .428
    .418
    .421

    Now he is hitting in a far better lineup, where most of the good pitchers are on his side (unlike the nats or expos who were going against the phillies, mets, and braves, and young marlin studs)

  135. pat February 26th, 2010 at 6:33 pm

    mick

    Then why not pick something else to listen to and talk about?

  136. mick February 26th, 2010 at 6:33 pm

    plus he is a cheat, using a phony “sex-addict” plea to further his career.

  137. Rich in NJ February 26th, 2010 at 6:33 pm

    The only issue with Nick is health. If he stays on the field (DH should help), he’ll be awesome.

  138. Chad Jennings February 26th, 2010 at 6:34 pm

    New post

  139. Jerkface February 26th, 2010 at 6:34 pm

    Granderson is far more likely to hit close to the mendoza line vs lefties than Nick Johnson to onbase .400 or lower

  140. GreenBeret7 February 26th, 2010 at 6:34 pm

    Bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
    February 26th, 2010 at 6:31 pm
    I have a deadline, too. I need to get the words out before I forget what I was going to type.
    =====

    I really did laugh out loud.

    ————————————————————

    LMAO. Happy to brighten your day, Bodh.

  141. mick February 26th, 2010 at 6:34 pm

    i’m open-minded and will listen to an extent but he is unlistenable and isn’t this a forum ?

  142. Bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes February 26th, 2010 at 6:36 pm

    Hey GB7,

    Just saw your post on Team Canada women.

    From the looks of them, I’ll bet some of those Canadian prairie girls could whup the butts of the commentators who would probably slap backs if the men’s team was knocking back the Molson on ice.

  143. David in Cal February 26th, 2010 at 6:36 pm

    Thanks, Chad, for the info on Thames’ contract and the Yanks’ attitude toward HOffman. It sounds as if the Yanks are confident that Hoffman can hit at a major league level. I wish I knew why. A year ago they were confident that Cody Ransom could hit. Hopefully, Hoffman will work out better than Ransom did.

    I think Posada bats behind ARod and Gardner beats out Winn. Swisher bats between Cano and Granderson in order to avoid consecutive lefties. That leaves:

    Jeter
    NJ
    Teix
    ARod
    Po
    Granderson
    Swisher
    Cano
    Gardner

    Against a leftie starter, Cano and Granderson would switch. I think it will be Gardner in left, Granderson in center, even though I would prefer the other way.

  144. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! February 26th, 2010 at 6:38 pm

    Let’s Go, it’s clear that Granderson and NJ were gotten to replace Damon and Matsui. I like Posada or Cano in the 5 hole. I was just throwing out a hypothetical. In any event, while I see Johnson as much to slow to occupy the two hole, if it ends up that he does, I will have to acede correct decision making to the Yankees. They are so much more savvy than I in running their team.

    Who ends up batting 2nd remains to be seen. Hypothetical – Nick Johnson has the most God awful spring training known to human kind. Does he still stand in line to bat 2nd?

    I guess I’m saying ST is going to tell a lot. How the team comes out of ST depends on what happens in ST. That’s no big surprise.

  145. lets go yankees February 26th, 2010 at 6:38 pm

    ray,

    Cano is a great player. In fact my favorite player on the Yankees. And I do not doubt that he will continue to get better.

    But if someone said to me today, Chase Utley over the next 4 years at 60 million or Cano at 48 million, I would not blink. You also did not mention defense btw which very much factors into my decision.

    Utley has been historically good on both sides of the ball for 5 years now.

    If Cano ever gets there I will be the first person to be doing back flips.

  146. raymagnetic - Wins are nothing - FIP is everything! February 26th, 2010 at 6:40 pm

    “Utley at 26: .291 .376 .540 .915 39 2b 28 HR
    Cano at 26 .320 .352 .520 .871 48 2b 25 HR

    Its not really that similiar. Cano hit for a higher average, Utley walked more while still hitting for a high average. Both have tremendous power.

    Utley’s skills are better on a year to year basis, as Cano is very dependent on actually hitting to be successful.

    They are both good, but Utley is the cream of the crop at 2B. Here is to Cano flourishing this year!”

    The only difference is that Utley walked more than Cano. To say that he’ll definitely be much better than Cano the next four years, 12 million dollars better is just silly.

    Especially since Cano is just hitting his prime now and Utley will be removed from his prime in 4 years.

  147. GreenBeret7 February 26th, 2010 at 6:40 pm

    Jerkface
    February 26th, 2010 at 6:31 pm
    42 % on base %……Wow,I hope you guys are right, only because the disappointment will be painful

    As painful for you if Granderson continues to flounder vs lefties? Come on, Dude, his on base the last 3 years

    .428
    .418
    .421

    Now he is hitting in a far better lineup, where most of the good pitchers are on his side (unlike the nats or expos who were going against the phillies, mets, and braves, and young marlin studs)

    ————————————————————

    Except that those are only for the last 3 seasons that he played out of 5.

    Now assuming that he only plays in 120 games as normal, figure out what his replacement will hit and figure that in.

  148. lets go yankees February 26th, 2010 at 6:41 pm

    The whole discussion with Pat has not been (in my mind) about who is there on Opening Day. Really, academic in sense of who should be there and practical in who will end up there.

    All I was saying with Cash’s quotes was on Opening Day NJ will be there. That can certainly change though over the course of the saeason

  149. GreenBeret7 February 26th, 2010 at 6:45 pm

    Bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
    February 26th, 2010 at 6:36 pm
    Hey GB7,

    Just saw your post on Team Canada women.

    From the looks of them, I’ll bet some of those Canadian prairie girls could whup the butts of the commentators who would probably slap backs if the men’s team was knocking back the Molson on ice.

    ————————————————————

    Yeah, that does put a new meaning on “cowgirls” doesn’t it? I did notice that they had more teeth than the though. That’s a plus.

    Seriously, though you got the point. If it were the men’s team, everyone would get a big chuckle and talk endlessly about how they earned it.

  150. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! February 26th, 2010 at 6:47 pm

    Let’s Go, he also said Granderson would be in center and now Girardi is saying that both Gardy and Granderson will be playing left and center to find out who is comfortable where.

    There’s many a slip between the cup and the lip. Who ends up in what spot in the lineup on Opening Day is not yet etched in stone.

  151. Erica - always OPPC February 26th, 2010 at 6:50 pm

    NEW THREAD :ARROW: fRIDAY NOTES

  152. Erica - always OPPC February 26th, 2010 at 6:51 pm

    Lets retry that one-

    New thread :arrow: Friday notes

  153. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! February 26th, 2010 at 6:54 pm

    Let’s Go – Exhibit A

    “Yesterday, though, an in appearance on Sirius XM’s MLB Home Plate Jody McDonald and Jim Bowden spoke to Brian Cashman about the Granderson position debate, and the Yanks’ GM virtually ended the discussion before it could drag on throughout March. ‘He’s our center fielder,’ he said. ‘We traded for him to be our center fielder.’”

    • Girardi on how the Yankees will use Brett Gardner and Curtis Granderson in the exhibition games: “We’ll put them in both spots. We’ll put them in center and left. Get them where we can evaluate whether they’re comfortable in left. We know that they’re comfortable in center.”

  154. S.o.S. February 26th, 2010 at 6:59 pm

    GB,
    If your out there. ONE MORE WIN FOR GOLD!! I want them to beat the Canadians and make it the MIRACLE ON ICE part deax.

  155. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! February 26th, 2010 at 7:04 pm

    Let’s Go – Exhibit B

    “Meanwhile, during the same interview, Cashman cleared up another Spring Training mystery of sorts. He also told Bowden that Nick Johnson would bat second for the Yanks.”

    “Girardi named Johnson and Granderson as the primary candidates to replace Damon in that coveted No. 2 hole between high MVP finishers Jeter and Teixeira”

  156. JMK aka The Overshare February 26th, 2010 at 8:17 pm

    Thames is a stud

  157. pistol pete February 26th, 2010 at 11:58 pm

    I don’t like our outfield, very weak, low batting averages and only avg at best arms. Unproven hitters in the clutch and very suspect vs leftys. Replacing Matsui and Damon won’t be easy, I realize they were on the downside but I’d would have been happier if we let just one go, not both. We have the best infield in baseball, by far, but the outfield is suspect and our bench is young and unproven. Cashman will be busy at or before the deadline for a right handed bat to protect Arod and lengthen the lineup, Manny anyone.

  158. hopeful but missing damon troy February 27th, 2010 at 9:43 am

    I love the speed and defense of gardner and hoffman, and it appears hoffman has a huge upside and
    Would feel like we traded bruney for nothing if he left


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