The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Notes from Wednesday

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc, Podcast on Mar 03, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The wind was a beast this afternoon. It almost blew a ball over Jamie Hoffmann’s head in right, and it nearly blew a ball out of Brett Gardner’s reach in left. Both made pretty good plays to make the catch.

“You can be out there for two hours in BP and you don’t get nearly as much work as that one ball I just got,” Gardner said.

That’s a good thing for the Yankees, who are still trying to sort out their outfield alignment and need to see both Gardner and Curtis Granderson tested in left. Gardner seemed to pass the first test, as did all three of the rotation/long relief candidates who pitched today. Chad Gaudin, Sergio Mitre and Alfredo Aceves combined for six scoreless innings with no walks, a strikeout apiece and only an infield single off Gaudin.

Here’s Joe Girardi, talking about his pitchers, his outfielders and the No. 2 spot in his lineup.

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And here’s Granderson talking about his first game in pinstripes and his need to see more left-handed pitchers before making further adjustments.

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Ross

• Position players who will not be traveling to Clearwater tomorrow: Derek Jeter, Alex Rodriguez, Mark Teixeira, Curtis Granderson, Marcus Thames, Jon Weber, Francisco Cervelli, P.J. Pilittere and Mike Rivera.

• Unless he has a setback in the next two days, it looks like Joba Chamberlain is good to go on Friday. He threw a bullpen today “If he feels OK on Friday, we’ll pitch him,” Girardi said. Javier Vazquez also threw his scheduled batting practice session today, becoming the last starter to do so.

• George Steinbrenner was here briefly. He was driven through the concourse beneath the stadium, then driven out.

• CC Sabathia is scheduled for 35 pitches or two innings tomorrow.

• Girardi hoped to get Hoffmann and Thames at least one at-bat against the left Paul Maholm, but he left after one inning. “That plan didn’t go quite as we envisioned,” Girardi said.

• Kevin Russo woke up feeling sick this morning. He wasn’t scheduled to play anyway. “You just hope that it doesn’t go all the way around this clubhouse,” Girardi said.

• Jason Hirsh: Two batters faced, two strikeouts.

• After his home run, Ramiro Pena walked into the clubhouse and was greeted by Gardner, who demanded a hug.

• If you can’t tell, that’s former Yankees right-hander Ross Ohlendorf in the picture. He looked good in his one inning. Can’t really say the same for Steven Jackson.

 
 

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117 Responses to “Notes from Wednesday”

  1. mick March 3rd, 2010 at 7:13 pm

    mick March 3rd, 2010 at 7:11 pm

    The Yanks seem to have made a decision on Joba to the pen. They see more value there as they did for Mo.
    Why get Vasquez ? Do you really think Hughes will fall on his face this ST?
    The handwriting is on the wall. Joba had his audition. It didn’t work out, that’s all. Sabremetrics be damned.
    —————————————————
    REPOST

  2. lets go yankees March 3rd, 2010 at 7:17 pm

    mick
    March 3rd, 2010 at 7:11 pm
    The Yanks seem to have made a decision on Joba to the pen. They see more value there as they did for Mo.
    Why get Vasquez ? Do you really think Hughes will fall on his face this ST?
    The handwriting is on the wall. Joba had his audition. It didn’t work out, that’s all. Sabremetrics be damned.

    ————————

    1. Anyone saying they have made a decision on Joba is simply speculating just like anyone else

    2. Mo and Joba are not comparable at all.

    3. I already explained why I think they got Vazquez and no matter how well Joba pitched last year Vazquez was an important addition.

    4. Who said Hughes is the favorite? Who said anyone is the favorite? Again pure speculation.

    5. Wow, 156 whole innings last year as a SP. Some audition for a young starting pitcher. If thats how you make decisions on you starters there would be A LOT of great pitchers in the bullpen right now.

    6. Who said this decision has anything to do with sabermetrics?

  3. Jerkface March 3rd, 2010 at 7:20 pm

    65.1 IP 2.76 ERA 10.2 K/9

    Joba as a starter in 2008.

  4. Erin March 3rd, 2010 at 7:21 pm

    • After his home run, Ramiro Pena walked into the clubhouse and was greeted by Gardner, who demanded a hug.

    **************************
    Love it :D

  5. mick March 3rd, 2010 at 7:22 pm

    lets go yankees March 3rd, 2010 at 6:48 pm

    It is also a bit ironic that people get so up in arms around here about sabermetric people trying to make the game too complicated and predict the future.

    Yet, half the people on here have already determined that Joba is probably not a starter long term because of his mental makeup, body type, mechanics last year, etc. before he has even turned 25.
    —————————————————————
    6. Who said this decision has anything to do with sabermetrics?
    ————————————————————-
    Uh, you?

  6. SJ44 March 3rd, 2010 at 7:25 pm

    It may be “pure speculation” to you but just about everyone who covers the team has reported that Hughes seems to be the guy they want to win the spot.

    Curry, Kay, Kepner, King and Klapisch have reported this in the last few weeks. Clearly, their sources inside the organization have told them this.

    The Yankees have Vasquez for one year. That’s a rental. If they were sold on Joba in the rotation, there is no need to make that trade.

    You can go elsewhere for pitching help and spend a lot less in salary and prospects.

    Perhaps the Yankees know something you don’t.

    Clearly, something has changed re: their firmness in what Joba’s role should be in the off-season.

    The question we don’t know is why their thinking changed. Perhaps there are long term injury concerns.

  7. mick March 3rd, 2010 at 7:26 pm

    Look I don’t make these decisions but if I had to bet I would say Joba goes to the pen and Hughes is the 5th starter.

    At least it starts that way.

    Personally, I like them both in the pen, and you can bet on that in the playoffs again.

    Eventually, we might see Phil setting up for Joba, as I see both them with short attention spans well suited for the bullpen. That could change with age.

  8. mick March 3rd, 2010 at 7:27 pm

    Curry, Kay, Kepner, King and Klapisch
    ————————————-
    Now there’s a law firm for you.

  9. MTU March 3rd, 2010 at 7:29 pm

    Mick-

    “I see both them with short attention spans well suited for the bullpen. ”

    I hope you’re joking about this ?

  10. Pat M. March 3rd, 2010 at 7:30 pm

    One thing is clear, Cashman ( on paper ) has built a fine, deep club for 2010…..Cano hitting with success in the 5 hole is big I believe…..Just realized that my old skipper is in his final year…..Bobby Cox is a gift to the game….

  11. SJ44 March 3rd, 2010 at 7:30 pm

    It’s nit 2008 anymore. That stat means nothing. Especially if you compare it to his second half of last year.

    Cherrypicking stats doesn’t advance an argument.

    Something has affected their thinking since he’s now in a competition for a spot in the rotation with the loser in the competition slated to go to the pen.

    We just don’t know the reason for their change in thought.

  12. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day March 3rd, 2010 at 7:31 pm

    I trust Klapisch as far as I can throw him – and I doubt that these media guys have sources in the organization who are going to leak this kind of stuff to them. I really don’t see any reason why the Yankees would all of a sudden favor Phil seeing as he fell out of favor with them in comparison to Joba since 2007. I don’t buy it.

  13. mick March 3rd, 2010 at 7:31 pm

    have you ever seen hughes lounging in the bullpen? all he needs is a drink and he might as well be at the beach.

  14. MTU March 3rd, 2010 at 7:33 pm

    Mick-

    “have you ever seen hughes lounging in the bullpen? all he needs is a drink and he might as well be at the beach.”

    I am starting to think you might be serious about this ?

  15. mick March 3rd, 2010 at 7:39 pm

    enough of this nonsense it’s time to dumb down for the idol

  16. lets go yankees March 3rd, 2010 at 7:41 pm

    6. Who said this decision has anything to do with sabermetrics?
    ————————————————————-
    Uh, you?

    ———————-

    Find the quote please.

  17. SJ44 March 3rd, 2010 at 7:42 pm

    Betsy,

    They all have sources in the organization.

    All of those guys have sources high up on the Yankees food chain.

    You may not like some of them but, it doesn’t negate their sources.

    Jack Curry made mention of the belief from some in the organization that Hughes has the inside track for the job.

    Since he is now working for YES, he’s not making it up. That info is coming from somebody.

  18. mick March 3rd, 2010 at 7:43 pm

    d, 2010 at 7:41 pm

    6. Who said this decision has anything to do with sabermetrics?

  19. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day March 3rd, 2010 at 7:44 pm

    SJ, where did Jack say this? On the telecast? Personally, I hope they are right, but Phil has to do his job…

  20. mick March 3rd, 2010 at 7:44 pm

    Hughes to the pen makes no sense.
    He deserves a shot just as Joba did.

  21. lets go yankees March 3rd, 2010 at 7:44 pm

    The Yankees have Vasquez for one year. That’s a rental. If they were sold on Joba in the rotation, there is no need to make that trade.

    You can go elsewhere for pitching help and spend a lot less in salary and prospects.

    ——————————

    There are several reasons to make that trade even if they were sold on Joba. I mentioned a few as did champ in the last thread. And how competitive the AL East was not even brought up yet.

    There was no one out there that was an improvement over Hughes or Joba, so going elsewhere would have been a downgrade.

  22. lets go yankees March 3rd, 2010 at 7:47 pm

    Maybe the Yankees just think Hughes is a better starting pitcher than Joba right now.

    That does not say anything about Joba though except that a fellow former top prospect has surpassed him in his development.

  23. SJ44 March 3rd, 2010 at 7:50 pm

    He said it on the telecast Betsy.

    Let’s go,

    they could have signed Ben Sheets and kept their starting CF and 2 pitching prospects if they wanted to add an arm.

    They made that trade because they needed an innings eater because their thinking changed on Joba.

    You don’t make that deal if you believe Joba is ready to give them 200 innings and consistency in the rotation.

  24. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day March 3rd, 2010 at 7:51 pm

    Thanks, SJ. Hopefully YES won’t skip his inning when they air the game tonight…

  25. MTU March 3rd, 2010 at 7:51 pm

    GB-

    As you probably already know I tend to agree with you about Eiland.

    CB pointed out something the other night that really got my interest.

    We were discussing Joba and I talked about the possibility of having his mechanics re-worked.

    CB pointed out something that I was not aware of.

    Namely, that Nardi had already reworked Joba’s mechanics in the past.

    The important thing for me was that the changes resulted in many positive things for Joba not the least of which was an increase in velocity, etc.

    These gains now seem to have been lost, at least for the moment.

    There could be several alternative explanations for it.

    But I have to ask myself a question.

    If Nardi was able to re-work joba and thus make him a better pitcher.

    How come Eiland hasn’t been able to ?

    Is it all on Joba, or is Eiland part of the problem ?

  26. Hobs March 3rd, 2010 at 7:52 pm

    I don’t quiet understand how signing Vazquez for a year is some sort of knock against Joba. Couldn’t it be more as a buffer to weather the inconsistencies that both Joba and Phil are likely still going to experience at some point this season?

    They (the Yankees) probably saw the massive workload that CC, AJ, and Andy were subject to last year – and wanted to add potential depth in case they don’t see the same blessings of health that they saw last season.

    I dream of both in the rotation next year. Phil/Joba replacing Javy. Lee replacing Pettitte.

  27. S.o.S. March 3rd, 2010 at 7:53 pm

    SJ44,
    Would any of the Yankees worries have to do with Jobas velocity dropping last year? Do they think he might be more brittle than they originally thought. He did fall on the Yankees lap due to arm trouble if i can recall.

  28. raymagnetic - Wins are nothing - FIP is everything! March 3rd, 2010 at 7:53 pm

    If the Yankees have really given up on Joba after 1 full year of starting then they are really being short sighted.

    So if Hughes wins the spot in spring training and then struggles like Joba did last year is he done as a starting pitcher as well?

    Giving a guy one full year as a starter makes zero sense whatsoever in my opinion.

    By the way, if Joba is really the pitcher we saw in the second half last year then he’s not going to do all that well out of the bullpen either, because Joba’s stuff wasn’t good coming out of the pen in October, it certainly wasn’t as sharp as it was when he first came up to the bigs.

    But hey, if the organization thinks he can’t hack it as a starter, who am I to argue?

  29. SJ44 March 3rd, 2010 at 7:53 pm

    How would they know if Hughes is a better starter than Joba now since Hughes didn’t start the last 4 months of last season?

    This has more to do with their thinking on Joba. That’s why they made the Vasquez trade and created a competition for the fifth starters spot.

  30. lets go yankees March 3rd, 2010 at 7:56 pm

    Ben Sheets does not solve your problem of ensuring stability and health. Ben Sheets just gives you one more questionable pitcher.

    The problem here is that you think Javy was brought in because of Joba. I think and many others believe (I think Sherman may wrote an article about it when the trade went down) that Javy was brought in b/c of CC, AJ, Andy.

    To expect 200 innings of consistency from Joba even if he pitched very well last year would be foolish because of the volatility of young pitchers and that Joba is potentially a serious injury risk

  31. S.o.S. March 3rd, 2010 at 7:56 pm

    Going three deep through out the playoffs should have been the first clue.

  32. SJ44 March 3rd, 2010 at 7:59 pm

    Eiland isn’t a problem. Joba’s problems were Joba’s.

    Some guys have a hard time repeating their mechanics consistently over 100 pitches.

    Eiland changed CC’s grips on his two seamer and changeup in June of last year and CC dominated after that.

    It’s illogical to blame Eiland for Joba’s struggles.

  33. Pat M. March 3rd, 2010 at 8:00 pm

    I think the club got a wake-up call last October when Rivera was dinged up…It’s time to look at life without Mariano….You is better suited in that role and who is better suited in the rotation…..This was mentioned yesterday, Joba may have need to throw more than just every 5th day to fulfill his potential

  34. SJ44 March 3rd, 2010 at 8:04 pm

    Don’t get me wrong, I love the Vasquez trade.

    However, if the Yankees saw the 2008 Joba as a starter for 2010, they don’t make that deal.

    All I am saying is they are less clear about Joba as a starter than a year ago.

    Something changed their thinking.

  35. Sayanora Cy March 3rd, 2010 at 8:06 pm

    Mo is retiring at the end of the season.

    He’s told the Yanks but doesn’t want it public so it won’t cause a distraction. it will also spare him the all bells & whistles which he doesn’t want.

    Joba’s being groomed to be the closer.

    Phil will be the #5 unless he gets hurt or falls flat on his face.

  36. MTU March 3rd, 2010 at 8:13 pm

    Here’s a simple fact:

    It takes time to develop a young starter.

    And since both Phil and Joba are young starters.

    It’s gonna take time for them to develop to their full potential.

    If the Yankees can’t or wont wait then I don’t see how they get there.

    Setting artificial or arbitrary deadlines necessitated by the pressure to win, and forcing a premature termination of the process would leave many of us wondering about what might have been.

    When the Yankees finally do pull the trigger on this decision my hope is that they will not regret in any way shape or form their decision, and that it will have been the correct one.

    IMO, for the good of all concerned, including the Yankees, Phil and Joba deserve the maximum opportunity to succeed.

    Anything less would be foolish and wasteful.

  37. NYY626 March 3rd, 2010 at 8:14 pm

    Mo is retiring at the end of the season.
    ________________________________________________________________
    LOL right

  38. lets go yankees March 3rd, 2010 at 8:19 pm

    Pat M.
    March 3rd, 2010 at 8:00 pm
    I think the club got a wake-up call last October when Rivera was dinged up…It’s time to look at life without Mariano….You is better suited in that role and who is better suited in the rotation…..This was mentioned yesterday, Joba may have need to throw more than just every 5th day to fulfill his potential

    ———————————

    Neither Hughes nor Joba have to take over for Mo.

    There are closers on the market every year. If I was a betting man I would be putting money down on the next closer coming from outside the organization.

  39. MTU March 3rd, 2010 at 8:21 pm

    Cy-

    “Mo is retiring at the end of the season.

    He’s told the Yanks but doesn’t want it public so it won’t cause a distraction. it will also spare him the all bells & whistles which he doesn’t want.

    Joba’s being groomed to be the closer.

    Phil will be the #5 unless he gets hurt or falls flat on his face.”

    And you know this how ?

    Otherwise you are merely substituting your opinion for fact.

    And if it’s just your opinion you are entitled to it but it shouldn’t be presented the way you presented it.

  40. Dennis March 3rd, 2010 at 8:25 pm

    no cervelli means montero catching after Jorge. :)

  41. Joe from Long Island March 3rd, 2010 at 8:26 pm

    Hi all –

    Nice to see baseball, even if it’s ST, and a decent baseball discussion, rather than some troll-like drivel.

    None of us, obviously, knows what private discussions the Yank’s decision-makers have had re: Joba’s future. If I had to guess, I’d guess that Joe, Dave Eiland, Posada, Derek (I remember Jeter going to the mound one time and having a short, intense, in the face and one-way discussion with Joba), and who knows who else are fed up with his approach as a starter.

    The one thing we do know is that Joe has said that 1)Joba’s training wheels are off, and 2)the loser of the competition goes to the pen.

    To me, that means it’s Joba’s last chance to produce as a starter, of it’s back to the pen, possibly for good.

  42. Pat M. March 3rd, 2010 at 8:28 pm

    Let’s go Yanks…..You very well maybe correct, however who out there is better than the Yanks options ( Joba / Hughes )…..Both are young, inexpensive and have exploded with domination in that role….MTU. most of what is shared here is opinions, some more eduacated guesses than others……What is clear, that the club needs to be a contender as always in 2010 amd with a clear look into the future……I just don’t see Giradi going to the whip everytime they’re in a close game or in a save situation this season…..I think this has as much to do with # 42 as it does with Joba / Hughes for the 8th inning assignment…..

  43. Joe from Long Island March 3rd, 2010 at 8:29 pm

    Mo has said that he wants to pitch as long as he go at his usual high level. Now, he may change his mind, but that is what he has said.

  44. champ809 March 3rd, 2010 at 8:29 pm

    SJ

    I have to disagree about the Vazquez trade coming about because of a change regarding the org’s thinking about Joba’s future.

    The Yanks needed a 4th starter as Wang was slated to be the #2 last yr and Pett the #4…Pettite is miscast as a #3 right now IMO and the Yanks needed 3 solid 200 inning locks in the ‘ro.
    Sheets would have cost them the same in salary as Vazquez but he hadn’t pitched effectively in almost a yr and a half.
    I love Ben when he’s healthy but if they signed Sheets then 2-5 in your rotation are ? marks and injury risks and a team with a goal of repeating can’t afford that gamble. If Sheets or AJ or Pettite go down at the trade deadline now the Yanks would be in aposition to possibly sacrifice more than Melky and Vizcaino to get the frontline starter they would need.
    After the Grandy trade Melkman was no longer to be the starting CF’er in ’10 and while Viz could be a stud the Yanks have 10 guys at similar stages in their careers who could be just as good if not better than him and so he was expendable from the standpoint of trading from a position of strength of the teams assets.
    Vazquez is a lock for 200+ quality innings and potentially top 10 starter innings for this team and as I outlined in an earlier post looking at the possible worst case scenarios with AJ and Andy in particular it made perfect sense to add Javy.

    And again what no one on this board who favors Hughes for the starter role is addresses is what is that opinion based on because Joba has had a # of dominant starts in the year and a half that he’s been in the rotation whereas Phils only had a handful like 4 good starts.

    All young starters have ups and downs and especialy when they’ve been moved around back and forth like Joba has. He’s done well again what is not disputable by you Sj or anyone else is that stripping out the “second half” that you continually refer to which were 7 abbreviated 2 and 3 inning starts, in his more normal starts the other 35 he has a 3.61 era/ a k/9ip and the Yanks have won like 70% of those games.
    I hardly consider that a failure.

    he sure as hell didn’t look like a failure last year when he k’ed 12 sox in 5 innings..

  45. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day March 3rd, 2010 at 8:30 pm

    I agree, SJ. If Joba had just been solid in 2009 (not great), then I think they’d feel comfortable with having Phil in the 5th spot. However, with Phil expected to have his own ups and downs, I don’t blame the Yankees for not wanting to have both in the rotation.

  46. sunny615 March 3rd, 2010 at 8:30 pm

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....cts/3.html

    Tony Sanchez hits #79. Pretty good… congrats to your nephew SJ44.

    Montero (4) and Romine (86) of the Yankees also make the list.

  47. SJ44 March 3rd, 2010 at 8:31 pm

    Why go outside the organization if you feel you have his replacement in house? Especially with the high cost of pitching on the open market.

    Girardi today said he wants to have a 5th starter in place by March 25.

    That means, 3 weeks to go before we know.

  48. lets go yankees March 3rd, 2010 at 8:32 pm

    “( Joba / Hughes )…..Both are young, inexpensive and have exploded with domination in that role….”

    ————————

    By the time they are ready to take over for Mo they will be either very close to free agency or already free agents, so in turn as expensive as any other FA closer. Also, as raymagnetic pointed out if Joba is indeed the guy from the second half of last year he is not going to do well in the bullpen.

    When Joba was good as a starter, had his mechanics tight, velocity on his fastball, and his slider breaking right he was good in the bullpen. When Joba was all over the place, decreased velocity, decreased break he was bad as a starter AND bad as a reliever.

    The 8th inning is not solving Joba’s issues.

  49. lets go yankees March 3rd, 2010 at 8:34 pm

    A few examples of closers on the market in the coming years.

    Following the…

    2011 season: Broxton
    2012: Nathan, Street
    2014: Soria

  50. MTU March 3rd, 2010 at 8:38 pm

    Pat-

    appreciate your take.

    and I understand that Mo will not close forever.

    thus a need is created when the event happens, or proactively.

    Where my POV seems to diverge from yours is your belief that the above scenario means that one of either Phil or Joba must inherit
    Mo’s mantle.

    The maximum value to the Yankees is for both of these young men to develop into frontline starters.

    If it is determined that either or both are not suited to starting then perhaps relieving becomes the only option.

    It would be much easier for the Yankees to buy a closer on the open market than it would be for them to acquire a starter of high caliber.

    Personaly, I want to see all options exhausted for either or both before the relieving option is triggered.

    I don’t think we are there yet with respect to either young man.

    Perhaps, I am wrong in my asessment. I concede that. It’s just my take. I respect yours.

    The Yankees will answer this for us soon.

  51. SJ44 March 3rd, 2010 at 8:38 pm

    Melky could have been the starting LF.

    That trade, although a good one for the Yankees, indicated a shift in their thinking.

    Cherrypicking Joba’s good outings doesn’t advance an argument.

    If he was set in the rotation, there wouldn’t be a competition. We can also cherrypick his last 6 weeks of starts, which were bad.

    He never threw the ball as well in 2009 as he did in 2008. That has set all these decisions into motion.

  52. Sayanora Cy March 3rd, 2010 at 8:39 pm

    MTU

    Yeah I’m just goofing off.

    It is somewhat shocking though isn’t it?

    But that day is coming. More sooner than later as well.

    And why go outside the org. for a closer? Who out there is going to close for the Yanks? Papelbon?

    Yanks already got the blueprint for a transition. You got a primo set up guy? He steps in.

  53. SJ44 March 3rd, 2010 at 8:43 pm

    No guarantee any of those closers will be on the market. They can be signed by their present teams.

    All that tells us is when their present contracts expire.

  54. MTU March 3rd, 2010 at 8:43 pm

    Cy-

    “And why go outside the org. for a closer? Who out there is going to close for the Yanks? Papelbon? ”

    That’s cool. It’s sometimes difficult to tell when people aren’t face to face.

    As far as the above statement goes see my response to Pat above.

    No point repeating myself.

  55. lets go yankees March 3rd, 2010 at 8:46 pm

    “And why go outside the org. for a closer? Who out there is going to close for the Yanks? Papelbon?”

    What is the difference if Hughes or Joba are going to be close to free agency or free agents anyway? They are just like any other guy on the market which means you sign the best guy.

    Soria, Broxton, and Nathan are all GREAT closers. There is no guarantee Joba or Hughes are ever as good as those guys closing out games.

  56. David in Cal March 3rd, 2010 at 8:46 pm

    The Yanks showed their opinion of Joba as a starter in last year’s post season, when they preferred to let their other pitchers go on short rest. Maybe Joba would have succeeded if the Yanks and the “Joba rules” hadn’t messed him up. However, bottom line is Joba did not succeed as a starter. It seems natural to give Hughes the next shot at starting. That’s not to say that Hughes might not succeed or that Joba might be a lot better this year. It just seems fair to give Phil a turn.

  57. MTU March 3rd, 2010 at 8:47 pm

    The most valuable asset in all of baseball is a young, cost-controlled frontline starter.

    period.

    Closers are much more plentiful.

    Even good ones.

    If we need an in-house option why not convert someone with less upside than either Joba or Phil.

    We could do that.

  58. David in Cal March 3rd, 2010 at 8:51 pm

    I shouldn’t get excited about two strikeouts in the first pre-season game, but it would be great if Jason Hirsh could turn his career around and pitch well.

  59. SJ44 March 3rd, 2010 at 8:54 pm

    MTU,

    true, unless they feel Joba’s future, for reasons we don’t know at this time, is in the bullpen.

    If that’s the case, it changes the dynamic.

  60. champ809 March 3rd, 2010 at 8:55 pm

    again let’s look at Zach Greinke as many would consider him a top 3 starter in the AL

    in 2005 his first full season in the rotation he made 33starts/ 5-17(bad team I know)/ 5.80era/ 183ip/233hits/53walks/118ks…..

    based on that he’d have been run out of town in NY….it takes time and there will be ups and downs with young pitchers….

    Halladay and Cliff Young were demoted to the minors after their first few years and they both went on to win CY’s.

    The right thing to do in this case for both Joba and the long term health of the organization would be for Joba to take the ball every 5th day and Phil to start the season as a starter in AAA building up his innings arm strength and arsenal- change and slider to go along with the 2 fastballs and the curve- giving him the best chance at success as a starter and the team it’s best options for the future

  61. MTU March 3rd, 2010 at 8:57 pm

    SJ-

    You said it at an earlier time.

    Let’s just let it play out on the field.

    Unless your sources inform you better than poor slobs like myself.

    Then you may already know but might not be able to share.

    For the rest of us it is just a matter of waiting and watching.

    I can deal with that. :)

  62. lets go yankees March 3rd, 2010 at 8:58 pm

    There is no guarantee, but the point was that basically any year you can find a closer on the market to take over for Mo. Those guys are just a few examples.

    Broxton already had the chance to be ex-ten-ded but would only allow the Dodgers to buy out his arbitration years

    Soria also already got an ex-ten-sion so he probably is not going to pass over FA again especially since he is toiling away in KC.

    Street also already got an ex-ten-sion so he probably does not pass up FA again

    Nathan is 35 so most likely the Twins let him get to FA. Not to mention they have to lock up Mauer so they probably will not be willing to invest that much in a closer

  63. Sayanora Cy March 3rd, 2010 at 8:58 pm

    I think Joba projects much better as a closer than as a front-line starter.

    And both those guys have a few years left before FA. If they were FA’s today how much would they be making? More than they are now but not the big money.

    Who knows when Mo is hanging it up. Most likely it will be within that time frame.

  64. lets go yankees March 3rd, 2010 at 8:59 pm

    extension is like that because I could not figure out why my post would not get through the filter

  65. lets go yankees March 3rd, 2010 at 9:00 pm

    hmmm so extension does pass the filter. Does doubtful not go through?

  66. SJ44 March 3rd, 2010 at 9:05 pm

    You can also make comparisons in the other direction. That doesn’t mean much.

    According to Girardi, we will know in 3 weeks.

  67. SJ44 March 3rd, 2010 at 9:07 pm

    Why would the Yankees want to sign mid-30′s FA closers if they have on in house with less mileage on their arms?

  68. blake March 3rd, 2010 at 9:09 pm

    I don’t think the 5th starter competition is by any means a done deal. Joba will have a chance to win it but I feel like the Yankees know they want Hughes to be a starter and they aren’t sure if Joba is or not. Therefore I think Hughes will win the job unless Joba just clearly outperforms him this spring.

    I was hoping to see a Montero AB today, maybe tommorow.

  69. champ809 March 3rd, 2010 at 9:14 pm

    It’s not cherrypicking anything it’s actually looking at the totality of his body of work as a starter. He has in fact for a young starter in his first 35 starts in the league had more good to very good starts that bad.

    And it’s silly to make a final judgement based on his last 7 starts of the year when he was restricted to 2 innings and say they were bad and he can’t do the job.

    If tommorrow Lincecum goes out and gives up 2 runs in 2 innings of work and gets pulled then he’s got a 9era for the day. If however he throws 4 shutout innings after that then all of a sudden his era is 3 and that’s a quality start.

    You seem smarter than that SJ but you are stuck on your view that somehow Joba should be in the pen and Hughes in the ‘ro. That’s fine but if you compare the body of work thus far and the arsenal of the 2 pitchers Joba is certainly more deserving.
    And for all your talk about potential injury concerns that really doesn’t fly as Hughes has a much worse track record as far as injury and Joba so far has proved far more durable.
    I’d like to see more facts and or data that shows that Hughes has been more effective than Joba up to this point only it doesn’t exist.
    The crap about what he “looks better at” is hogwash.

    The reality is considering the yo-yo the Yanks have had Joba on since they signed him as a pro he’s exceeded what should normally be expected of a young starter. The expectations concerning him were/are so unrealistic precisely because of the flashes of brilliance that he’s displayed so far and being that they’ve made it to the point of no rules no holding back with him they should turn him loose and let him get after it this season.

    Sandy Koufax by the way was a .500 pitcher with poor control and spotty mechanics the first 5-6 yrs of his career and looked like anything but a HOF’er. How’d that work out.

  70. kd March 3rd, 2010 at 9:16 pm

    sj,

    obviously joba wants to be a starter from a financial point of view. he’s said in the media that he wants to be a starter. but does anyone know his real preference?

  71. champ809 March 3rd, 2010 at 9:19 pm

    Joba was never drafted to be the closer in waiting that was Mark Melancon.
    Brackman may also be better suited as a closer if he can’t master the change as he would be a two pitch pitcher 98-100mph fb and a hammer curve.

    Joba has 2 plus-plus pitches and 2 plus pitches along with a change that is above average and with continued COACHING could be plus also.

    What other closer in baseball has 4-5 plus to plus-plus pitches…..NONE…that’s the arsenal of a potential ACE CY YOUNG type starter. Any smart organization that wasn’t being lazy would continue to develop that player in that direction.

  72. SJ44 March 3rd, 2010 at 9:20 pm

    You keep comparing Joba to pitchers whom it’s unfair to compare him to.

    One could also make unfavorable comparisons. It goes both ways.

    I don’t have a dog in the hunt.

    All I know is, the Yankees are the ones whose feelings of certainty as to where Joba fits best haS changed in the past year.

    If you don’t believe that, you have missed all the signs in the past few months.

  73. Pat M. March 3rd, 2010 at 9:21 pm

    Champ809, To pull the Sandy Koufax card is a desperate stretch…The only thing that Joba and Sandy have in common is that they both pitched….It ends there….Bottom line is the club needs a starter in the 5 spot and they need to have the advantage in the pen like they did last season…..They have seen a season of Joba, maybe they want to see a full season of Hughes in the rotation….I’m on record that I’ve always believed that Hughes will have the better career

  74. champ809 March 3rd, 2010 at 9:22 pm

    I love how everybody clams up when presented with real facts and case studies….

  75. blake March 3rd, 2010 at 9:23 pm

    craig (new york)

    will jesus montero make it to the majors this year? where do you think he hits in the yankee lineup in the next three years?
    Jim Callis (2:12 PM)

    I think he will for the last couple of months of the season. I bet he sees time at DH and backing up Posada at catcher, playing about two out of three games once he calls up. They won’t need to put him in the middle of their order immediately, but he’s their No. 3 hitter of the future.

  76. Doreen - 2010 GTLU Hostess March 3rd, 2010 at 9:24 pm

    I don’t think the Yankees are lazy. They may be guilty of being impatient, but not lazy. And for all the fan talk that the Yankees need to let them take their time and develop, well, that’s all well and good until they don’t deliver, and then the fans’ patience goes down the tubes quicker than a NY minute. It’s a unique position the Yankees are in.

    As far as the financials, whatever Joba does at the major league level (or any player for that matter) is a darn sight better than what they’d be doing otherwise, in or out of baseball.

  77. sean March 3rd, 2010 at 9:25 pm

    I started reading the comments in the beginning and didnt bother to see if this issue was resolved. I just wanna say that none of you know who will win the 5th starter job, so you’ll just have to wait and see, stop speculating. All you can do is root for the player you wish to win the job.

    That being said…

    Go Joba!

  78. lets go yankees March 3rd, 2010 at 9:25 pm

    There also seems to be a false premise in Yankeeland that Joba or Phil is just going to stick around if they are sent to the bullpen.

    Neither of those guys want to be closers. Neither of those guys want to be the heir to Mo.They want to be Starting Pitchers.

    They hit free agency and all it takes is one team to say they see them as a starter. All it takes is one pitching coach to say I can clean up Joba’s mechanics again.

    If you were Phil and Joba would you re-sign with the Yankees?

  79. Pat M. March 3rd, 2010 at 9:25 pm

    Champ809, are we talking about the same pitcher ??? 2 plus plus and 2 plus pitches ???

  80. SJ44 March 3rd, 2010 at 9:27 pm

    Nobody is drafted to be a closer champ.

    Jobs hasn’t shown ace stuff since 2008.

    Hyperbole aside, it’s clear the Yankees are undecided with his role at this time or he wouldn’t be in a competition.

    Brackman is starting in Tampa this year.

    Melancon? Right now, there isn’t a single decisionmaker in the organization who would choose him over Joba as a closer.

    Kd,

    Joba goes back and forth. His agents would prefer him starting! LOL

    I think it’s simple. If we see the Joba of 2008 as a starter, he has a shot.

    If not, I think they will put him in the pen and begin grooming him to replace Mo.

  81. Pat M. March 3rd, 2010 at 9:27 pm

    One of the two will not see free agency…..

  82. lets go yankees March 3rd, 2010 at 9:29 pm

    SJ44
    March 3rd, 2010 at 9:07 pm

    Why would the Yankees want to sign mid-30’s FA closers if they have on in house with less mileage on their arms?

    ————————-

    Broxton will be 26 when he hits FA

    Soria will be 30

    Street will be 28

  83. lets go yankees March 3rd, 2010 at 9:30 pm

    Pat M.
    March 3rd, 2010 at 9:27 pm
    One of the two will not see free agency…..

    ————————–

    They will if they are relief pitchers. Why would they sign an extension as the 8th inning guy?

  84. champ809 March 3rd, 2010 at 9:31 pm

    It’s not a desperate stretch at all the point is that throughout the history of the game young starters generally took time to figure it out.

    I’ve highlighted that using Greinke,King Felix,The Great Roy and when you compare their early careers to Joba’s at similar points Joba is actually way ahead from a performance standpoint and factoring in all the juggling of roles and rules and facing the BEST that baseball has to offer pitching in the AL East then I think you have to,if you want to be objective and reasoned, look at it differently. It’s completely wrong and uninformed to say that Joba failed as a starter so far or last year. In fact for the way that he’s been handled he’s done very well so far.
    Again at the end of July last year Joba was in the top 10 in the Al in era. That’s not failure. he is still a work in progress as are most all young starters with less than 3 yrs in the league(save Lincecum).
    If he continues to learn his craft and grow as a professional it wouldn’t surprise me if this season he’s the second best starter on the team behind CC.

  85. MTU March 3rd, 2010 at 9:32 pm

    I wonder how other teams see Joba ?

    As a potential frontline starter, or as a BP piece ?

    Just for the sake of argument.

    If the Yankees had traded Joba now what kind of return could they expect ?

    Remember this is all hypothetical.

  86. SJ44 March 3rd, 2010 at 9:32 pm

    If you get paid enough money, you don’t leave NY.

    Players aren’t fans. A guy like Joba makes a nice piece of change off the field. Money he never sees if he is a Yankee.

    My bet is, both guys are Yankees for a long time.

  87. no.27 March 3rd, 2010 at 9:32 pm

    When you’re talking about a pitcher in his first full year as a starter, talking about his success isn’t really cherry picking. Joba has shown signs that he has the ability to be a very good starter.

    Obviously, you have to look at where he struggled, but solely based on the success that he’s had this early in his career, I think it would be a mistake to put him in the bullpen now.

    He has a chance to pitch a full season and should be expected to make some real strides. If he doesn’t then you can look at putting him in the pen.

    A lot of people don’t like this idea, but I look at the ideal situation as Joba pitching as the 5th starter and the bullpen being strong enough that Hughes can have a full season as a starter in AAA/first pitcher called up in case of injury.

  88. lets go yankees March 3rd, 2010 at 9:36 pm

    SJ44
    March 3rd, 2010 at 9:32 pm

    If you get paid enough money, you don’t leave NY.
    Players aren’t fans. A guy like Joba makes a nice piece of change off the field. Money he never sees if he is a Yankee.
    My bet is, both guys are Yankees for a long time.

    —————————

    Come on SJ. You are to the first one on this board to tell people that players follow the money.

    Both those guys earning potentials are much greater as starting pitchers. No endorsement deals are going to close that gap.

    Mo is the exception. If either of those guys are expecting to make as much as him as a relief pitcher they are dreaming. Who is to say either of those guys will even be worth paying that much as closers? Joba sure did not look like a 10-15 million dollar a year closer in the playoffs last year.

  89. blake March 3rd, 2010 at 9:36 pm

    “I’ve highlighted that using Greinke,King Felix,The Great Roy and when you compare their early careers to Joba’s at similar points Joba is actually way ahead from a performance standpoint ”

    That really means next to nothing. For every Greinke, Felix, and Roy that struggled early and overcame it to be great there are 1,000 guys that struggle early and never amount to anything. It just means that Joba COULD turn it around and figure things out, it is no predictor that he will.

  90. blake March 3rd, 2010 at 9:38 pm

    “I wonder how other teams see Joba ?”

    As a bullpen guy I would guess.

  91. lets go yankees March 3rd, 2010 at 9:39 pm

    Ben Sheets does not throw a pitch in a full year and gets over 10 million on the market.

    Randy Wolf gets 30 million

    Brad freaking Penny gets 8 million.

    You are right though. They are not fans because they have no dying loyalty to the Yankees. Those guys will follow the money just like any other player.

  92. MTU March 3rd, 2010 at 9:40 pm

    Mercifully, the Yankees will settle this debate shortly. :)

    Whatever they decide I hope it is a smart baseball decision.

  93. SJ44 March 3rd, 2010 at 9:40 pm

    Street will be 30 in 2013 when he hits free agency with a ton of miles on his arm.

    Broxton will never see free agency.

    Projecting to 2014 makes no sense because too much can happen between now and then.

    MTU,

    FWIW, most teams see Joba as a closer. Mainly because of his injury history and what many believe are shaky mechanics.

    A lot of scouts see him being a better pitcher at 15-25 pitches than they do as an 80-110 pitch guy.

    Time will tell if they are right.

  94. champ809 March 3rd, 2010 at 9:41 pm

    Melancon was drafted as Cash has said himself with the idea that he could be the heir apparent to MO. I’ve personally seen him say it and read it over a 10-15 times.

    The Nats by the way drafted Drew Storen to be a closer right?

    in the months of Jun and July ’09 Joba made 11 starts went 5-1 with a 3.02 era and tOPS+ of 73 and 74 respectively.The Yans went 9-2 in the games he started. Thats ace type pitching isn’t SJ? only CC was better during that stretch and not by much. Again the actual facts paint a different picture that what your opinion may be.

  95. no.27 March 3rd, 2010 at 9:41 pm

    “Jobs hasn’t shown ace stuff since 2008.”

    Joba had several starts last year that would have given the Yankees a chance to win against any pitcher in the league. His pitches aren’t as nasty as they are when he was pitching in relief, but he had a 3 or 4 game stretch around the all star break that showed the potential to be an ace considering it was his first year as a starter.

  96. Pat M. March 3rd, 2010 at 9:42 pm

    Blake, You just save me the identical statement…..I beleive that 2010 sets up 2011…They want someone to do well enough in 2010 so that resolves the need for an additional starter in 2011…..Maybe the Front Office believes it’s time for Hughes to be that pitcher going forward, and it starts this season…..It’s a great situation for the Yanks, as every ballclub in the MLB would love to have this situation

  97. MTU March 3rd, 2010 at 9:43 pm

    Blake-

    Do they see him as having closer potential IYO ?

    What would such a team give up for that ?

    Propose a trade.

  98. SJ44 March 3rd, 2010 at 9:45 pm

    Let’s go,

    if Joba ends up as the future closer on this team, and succeeds in that role, he will be around for a long time because the Yankees will pay him very well.

    You can find 1996 quotes from Mariano Rivera saying he still considers himself a starting pitcher.

    Nothing gets set in stone early in a pitchers career. Things happen that change the dynamic.

  99. MTU March 3rd, 2010 at 9:46 pm

    27-

    “he had a 3 or 4 game stretch around the all star break that showed the potential to be an ace considering it was his first year as a starter.”

    Makes you wonder what happened to him back in Nebraska, or if it was just the downtime (rest).

    Whatever it was it was impressive.

    No doubt about that.

    I hope we see more of it before it’s too late.

  100. Pat M. March 3rd, 2010 at 9:46 pm

    Duke down by 10, and to think I was worried about giving a point …..Come on Maryland…..Tarheelyank has to be loving this

  101. lets go yankees March 3rd, 2010 at 9:47 pm

    SJ44
    March 3rd, 2010 at 9:40 pm
    Street will be 30 in 2013 when he hits free agency with a ton of miles on his arm.

    Broxton will never see free agency.
    Projecting to 2014 makes no sense because too much can happen between now and then.

    ——————————-

    Street has a player option for 2013 for 9 million. No reason for him to take that option unless he sucks.

    Why was Broxton’s arbitration years only bought out and no free agency years?

    The point was not to project players. The point was that you can find a closer and potentially GREAT closer on the market any year. There is no reason groom Joba or Phil to be Mo’s successor. It is a waste of talent, time, and money.

  102. champ809 March 3rd, 2010 at 9:47 pm

    Almost ANY and ALL frontline talent type pitchers would be “better for 1 inning and 20-25 pitches than 100+.

    Closers are guys that don’t have the ability nor the arsenal to pitch effectively 3 times through an order or 100-110 pitches. Joba shown dominance doing both.

    And this injury history you speak of so exxagerated that it’s laughable that you comntinue to refer to it. In his 3+ years of pro ball he’s been shut down for 3weeks with tendonitis which all pitchers experience at some point or another. I don’t wanna hear about a triceps strain he had in college 5 yrs ago. Compared to Phil Joba is the far less injury prone player thus far.

  103. blake March 3rd, 2010 at 9:49 pm

    MTU,

    I think a lot of teams do see him as that but if thats the case then what he could provide out of the pen is probably worth more than you could get for him in a trade IMO. Therefore I say keep him and let him do whatever role fits him best.

  104. blake March 3rd, 2010 at 9:49 pm

    “Tarheelyank has to be loving this”

    and Blake

  105. kd March 3rd, 2010 at 9:50 pm

    thanks sj.

    i always find it interesting to see what the player himself has to say. like jeter as ss. yeah, one day he might have to play another position, but his heart is half way between 2nd and 3rd.

  106. SJ44 March 3rd, 2010 at 9:50 pm

    Cash also said this winter there is no guarantee Joba stays a starter. Did you miss those comments?

    He’s in a competition, one many around the Yankees are saying he isn’t the favorite to win, for a slot in the rotation.

    If the Yankees viewed him as an ace, do you really think he would be in this spot right now?

    Something has changed in their evaluation of him.

    If you don’t think so, you aren’t looking at this objectively.

  107. MTU March 3rd, 2010 at 9:50 pm

    Blake-

    That’s probably a sensible POV. :)

  108. Chad Jennings March 3rd, 2010 at 9:51 pm

    New post.

  109. blake March 3rd, 2010 at 9:52 pm

    Pat M, It is a good problem to have for sure. I think its time for Hughes to be thrown into the deep end and personally I think he’ll come out Micheal Phelps.

  110. lets go yankees March 3rd, 2010 at 9:52 pm

    SJ,

    Everyone knew Mo was not a starting pitcher and I do not think any team was willing to make him one.

    Joba and Phil both have much better stuff to be starting pitchers. I cannot imagine those guys hitting FA and no team envisioning them as starting pitchers.

    An average starting pitcher on the FA market costs 10 million dollars a year. The Yankees will not overpay for Joba as a closer because there will be other options out there for cheaper.

    Unless Joba is making Mo money at 15 million a year there is not much incentive to stick around and not try to make it as a starter elsewhere.

    He can always go back to being a relief pitcher.

  111. SJ44 March 3rd, 2010 at 9:54 pm

    Frankly champ, you overstate your case.

    Joba has not shown the ability to consistently go through a lineup 2-3 times. Certainly not in dominating fashion.

    That’s why he’s in a competition for a spot in the rotation.

  112. blake March 3rd, 2010 at 9:57 pm

    The reason they are having a competition this year is because Joba took a step backwards last year instead of forward when he was given his opportunity. There really is no way around that fact.

    If they were happy with what they saw last year then wouldn’t they be anxious to build on that this year. The fact they are even having this competition is pretty telling to me.

  113. champ809 March 3rd, 2010 at 9:57 pm

    The point is that Cash isn’t guaranteeing anything to these kids at this point as he shouldn’t. And of course it’s clear that the Yanks are wrestling with this decision but they really shouldn’t be.
    Phil hs not done anything on the ML level that warrents passing Joba’s job to him. period.

    Cash also said today that the strongest 2010 team has both Joba and Hughes in the ‘pem and Ace,Mitre or Gaudin starting but he realizes that that sets the franchise back another yr or two but going that route.

    I love Phil and want o see a ‘ro of CC,AJ,Joba and Phil in ’11 I just think that Joba has earned the #5 job based on what he’s done so far in his career. I’m all for “competition” in camp the more the better.

  114. SJ44 March 3rd, 2010 at 9:58 pm

    Most teams in baseball don’t see Joba’s future as a starter let’s go. Don’t you recall the comments by teams when they put him in the rotation?

    My point about Mo was, pitchers often see themselves as starters longer than teams see them as starters.

  115. Pat M. March 3rd, 2010 at 10:01 pm

    New page >>>>>

  116. lets go yankees March 3rd, 2010 at 10:03 pm

    SJ44
    March 3rd, 2010 at 9:58 pm

    Most teams in baseball don’t see Joba’s future as a starter let’s go. Don’t you recall the comments by teams when they put him in the rotation?

    ————————————

    I recall a number of anonymous executives making those comments.

    Something goes wrong and suddenly Scout X and 15 other scouts or executives are proclaiming Joba in the BP.

    Joba shuts down the Red Sox in Fenway and suddenly 15 anonymous scouts or executives see him as an Ace.

    It is why I do not take anything serious from an anonymous scout of executive.

    Remember when every anonymous scout or exec in baseball wanted Joba over Hughes when the Santana trade talks were going on.

  117. JeterJobaCanoFan2010 March 4th, 2010 at 8:47 am

    I cannot truly believe that the Yankees would give up on Joba so quickly. Joba pitched in the BP the tail end of 07. He was put in the BP and was electric. 2008 was a decent year. He won 1-0 over Beckett in Boston. 10-0 in Pittsburgh.

    Then came the shoulder injury and upon recovery was put back in the pen. He had a number of great starts. SJ does not believe that the shoulder injury was Joba’s problem last year. But yet, Coney, said that type of shoulder injury takes about one year to heal. That year is up.

    2009 with several variations of Joba’s rules he started out well. He had 1st inning problems, but did strike out 12 in one game before he was taken out. Remember that as the starter he had:

    1. Almost always had 2 o3 subs in the game. He hardly ever pitched early in the season with all regulars playing.

    2. Early in the season his pitching gave up soft hits and easily played balls by the IF and OF. Gardner gave up an extra base hit over his head in one of Joba’s games. Remember the team was also in an offensive slump. Arod was still recuperating. Joba averaged about 3 runs per game. and either the team oR BP couldn’t always save his lead. Joba pitched and won the game ending the losing streak.

    3. It has finally been confirmed by several posters that indeed Joba’s delivery was changed in ST last year.
    I am not a baseball expert, never owned a team, never played in the Bigs,or knew anybody in Yankees management, and there is nothing wrong with that. But I agree with the poster who said the management needs to look at the body of work of both Joba and Phil. It is insipid to use 3 weeks of ST to decide who is #5 and who is demoted to the pen.

    SJ says that he knows from Yankee management that Phil is the favorite. We Joba fans know he has the capacity to be a great pitcher. What if all his weaknesses in 09 disappear and he clearly “Wins” the 5 slot. Will they still put him in the BP and let Phil go to the rotation. It appears that Phil has already been declared the winner. Not fair.

    For those who say Joba has his chance to be in the rotation and too bad, give Phil a chance. Phil has had his chance remember He and Kennedy starting and not winning a game between them?

    Joba was called up because of need for MLB pitchers. He did that job in 07, 08 and some of 09. This should be included in his body of work. They asked and he performed.

    Joba has never been sent back to the minors, never in 2 years and a couple of months. He didn’t figure in any trade talk. Except in 2009

    I truly believe that Joba has not had the proper time to develop as Phil was given. And don’t get me wrong, I think that Phil is a good pitcher and will develop very well but he is not as experienced in the BIGS as Joba.

    SJ’s reasons for losing faith in Joba – Vazques, etc. I also thought about in September. If Joba would have pitched to those very high expectations they would not have needed another pitcher going into the WS. They spent part of the last few month’s dtrying to get him ready for the post seasons games. It seemed to be more detrimental than helpful. Then he still was put in the BP where he did do very well. Phil did not.

    As SJ had repeatedly stated in his posts, no one knows what is the main reason that Joba is now in disfavor.

    I believe that SJ with his closeness to Yankee management does indeed know why – but he is not stating it. I give him credit for that. I think I can guess the reason.

    QUESTION: Can either Joba or Phil request a trade rather than spend the rest of their careers in the bull pen as a set up man and/or closer. Can it happen? I cannot see either one in the pen for the rest of their Yankee years.


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