Notes from Friday
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 05, 2010 
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Joe Girardi said he didn’t read anything into Joba Chamberlain’s struggles this afternoon. Chamberlain woke up sick on Tuesday and has thrown only a light bullpen since then. The Yankees weren’t worried about him hurting himself, so they decided to get him in a game — which Chamberlain said he wanted — but the results speak for themselves.
“I’m not going to make too much of it,” Girardi said. “You wonder how much he had his legs under him after being sick for a few days.”
There were some good things from Phil Hughes, who estimated that he threw eight or nine changeups, including three in a row to Ben Zobrist. He also threw a good one for a strike to B.J. Upton. His fastball command, though, wasn’t great.
Then again, that was a fairly common problem for the Yankees today.
“We didn’t throw strikes,” Girardi said. “That’s why they got an 11-spot.”
• Nick Johnson told the Yankees that he could play today and tomorrow, but Girardi said he will likely have Johnson sit until Monday. He’ll take batting practice tomorrow.
• Nick Swisher’s right wrist is OK. It hit the ground when he dove back to first base on that snap throw from the catcher. He was checked on the field, but Girardi said he’s fine.
• Andy Pettitte, Javier Vazquez, Mariano Rivera, Damaso Marte, Chad Gaudin, Sergio Mitre, Alfredo Aceves and Chan Ho Park each threw side sessions today.
• Curtis Granderson had no hits to show for it, but he had two solid at-bats against left-handed pitchers. He was happy to face Carlos Hernandez in his last at-bat because it gave him more vs.-LHP data to analyze. Granderson said he saw four-seamers, sinkers, cutters and a slurvy curveball from the left side today. “I’ve got to see it all,” he said.
• Good inning from Dave Robertson: Three-up, three-down, ending with a Fernando Perez strikeout on a fastball.
• After sitting out the past two days with a flu-like illness, Kevin Russo finally got in a game today and went 1-for-2 with a walk and an RBI double.
I really liked what we saw out of Hughes today with his change up.
That was the story of the day. He threw a few beauties and that at bat to zobrist was terrific.
The fastball velocity and command will come. That’s nothing to worry about or focus on now.
Just a snap shot – but seeing Montero behind the plate – he doesn’t look nearly as bad as has been written over and over again. He might not stick at catcher but he’s basically been described as near incompetent behind the plate and he doesn’t look it from the small sample we’ve seen. Sometimes guys just look really uncomfortable at a position. Montero doesn’t look that way at catcher which is very good to see.
Joba shaking off catchers = Yankee Championship.
Don’t castigate; celebrate!
CB,
I’ve said all along, those who say Montero can’t catch either have never seen him play, read internet scouts too much, or have no idea what they are talking about.
I know a little bit about raising and developing a catcher.
That kid will never be a Gold Glove catcher but, he also won’t be a stiff.
His biggest issue is his footwork on his throwing and that will come with repetition and experience.
However, if you combine his bat with his catching skills as is, he’s a big leaguer inside of a year. He’s that good offensively.
If Mike Piazza can catch in the majors, Jesus Montero certainly can if he continues to improve.
CB, I do hope Montero comes along soon, the odometer on Jorge is getting high and his warranty will expire right about the time his Contact expires…At least I hope so, I’m a little concerned about Jorge going into this season as the # 1 catcher….120 games could be pushing it. I do hope I’m wrong about the Great Posada
I’m fine with sitting Nick until Monday, but boy – better wear protective gear for the garbage that’s going to be spewing from the Lupicas of the world (and panicked fans) about his injury history.
I’m not surprised the FB command isn’t there after months of mostly inactivity. Even before today, Phil seemed quite happy with the progress he’s made on his change, so it was nice that he could actually gauge that progress against good hitters. All we’ll hear about re: Phil from fans is that he lost velocity – you just know that’s going to be the theme.
Pat M, thanks again for the link to MLB. Now I can watch AJ’s two innings tomorrow and see how HIS change looks.
Uh, oh. The Nicked Johnson saga starts. I hear he injured his back by getting his spike caught in the grass. In other words – walking.
Not good.
Uh, oh. The Nicked Johnson saga starts. I hear he injured his back by getting his spike caught in the grass. In other words – walking.
Not good.
Montero is pretty good at digging pitches out of the dirt. He also has soft hands, and unless he gets crossed up, he seldom boxes the pitches or throws to home. It used to make me cringe when he’d block the plate with a runner coming in. He’s getting better at getting the outs and avoiding the collisions?
I’m very glad to hear that Montero looked good behind the plate (or, at least, decent). Hopefully his bat will translate to the majors; if it does, we sure have a big advantage over most teams. Given my nickname, though, I’m still sort of hoping that Romine is the catcher…….
Hey Nick,
If you are interested, Pat M and I are getting together in Anaheim for the Futures Game this summer if my nephew is selected to play. You are cordially invited.
I’m sure I won’t have a problem getting tickets if he is selected.
Just let me know as the season unfolds if its of interest to you.
The knock on Montero is his size…that he’s too big. They completely ignore Fisk, Weiters, Mauer, Martinez and Piazza.
Also, nice to see good at-bats against LH from Granderson..
“With that said, I can’t get too excited right now about not signing some 17 year old pitcher that I wouldn’t know from Adam.”
———————
I think this quote needs to be repeated.
Probably 99% of the people on here could not pick DePaula out of a lineup including myself. Just because Jorge Arangure writes 500 tweets about some guy does not mean they are any good or the Yankees should undoubtedly sign him.
If there is anything you should trust about the Yankees, it is their track record in Latin America. They have done INCREDIBLY well there. Just look at their big league club and minor league system and see where these guys came from.
There is more to these decisions than a bunch of random people on the internet talking up some kid like he is the next Pedro Martinez. Not to mention one DePaula is like ten less Montero’s, Arodys Vizcaino’s, or Jose Ramirez’s.
How many of these can’t miss kids from Latin America have actually turned out like Felix? And if IIRC (someone please correct me if I am wrong) the Yankees offered more for Felix than the Mariners, but he did not want to come here.
One question to the Montero doubters. How has Jorge survived the years behind the plate? I think his bat had something to do with it.
Mariano to Mike: “if I was the owner or the Mgr. Joba would be my 8th inning guy.” Do it.
As the owner of the yanks, Rivera would make the manager Rivera turn Chamberlain into the 8th inning guy.
The Yankees have a great problem: Lots of good catching prospects. Two will evenutally stick, the rest get traded or repositioned, though I’m not sure repositioning can effectively happen this late in their development.
Mike would eat the resteraunt out of business.
Nick could have played today. Its not a big deal. Doesn’t mean though folks won’t make a big deal out of it.
Pat M,
Tony is on the travel team for the Pirates for their game with Baltimore in Sarasota tonight.
Hopefully, he gets some PT.
I’m headed to FAU to watch his college team play FAU tonight.
And, just one more thing, saying the Yankees and particularly Hal is being cheap everytime they do not sign one of these guys is beyond ridiculous.
The Yankees are one of the highest if not the highest spenders in the IFA every year and nothing has changed under Hal. The only thing that has changed is that suddenly everyone on the internet knows who DePaula or whatever is, when 5 or 10 years ago no one would bat an eyelash over the Mariners signing some 17 year old kid from the Dominican Republic.
I never believed I would ever see the day when people complained that the Yankees are not spending enough, but I guess I was wrong.
“That kid will never be a Gold Glove catcher but, he also won’t be a stiff.”
That’s the thing – he’s been described as a total stiff and dismissed as being capable of playing an even passable catching game.
He’s not a stiff back there. That much you can see in a snap shot. He might have a very slow release and poor footwork but those factors can be improved on. If you’re just a stiff back there and it’s just not even a semi-natural fit then that trouble.
And really does it matter that much if he’s release is slow? This is a guy who could be a .950+ OPS catcher. Even in spring training as a 20 year old he doesn’t look anywhere close to being out of his league.
Piazza was stiff behind the plate. And as bad as he was defensively he was still on the whole offense + defense an enormous positive behind the plate.
It’s very encouraging to see Montero looking decently fluid back there. He may never be great or even a plus catcher but his bat makes that irrelevant.
GB7 -
Doesn’t Mariano make everything sound so simple?
I think what Montero has going for him is his determination and willingness to work in order to be the catcher for the NY Yankees. (His bat doesn’t hurt, either.
)
SJ, The All-Star package is going to be a tough ducket this July….I think Tony has a real shot at playing in Anahiem….I’m looking forward to it, and we;ll get Nick in SF to hop on a Virgin America flight to John Wayne Airport
Anyone who missed Mariano on Francesa today really needs to go and listen on the site wfan.com. Hearing his interview makes you love the guys even more. Just a classy guy through and through, gives straight answers and some great insight.
Simon, they could do what they did with Ellie Howard and berra and play one of them in left field on non-catching days. Romine is the best target for that. He has the bat and the speed for both corners. Haven’t seen sanchez or Murphy yet. People forget about them having Jeff Farnham in Charleston this year, too. He has a fair amount of promise, too.
Woops, should have said 2 more things.
Below are the Yankee payrolls since 2000. Hal has been no different than his father.
The Yankee payroll has fluctuated above and below 200 million since 2004. Nothing is different this year except you hear the word “budget” being thrown around much more, which has worked out quite well for Cashman as a negotiating tactic.
Sorry for the rant on payroll in the past few posts, but the complaints the past few weeks are getting crazy.
2009: $201,449,189
2008: $209,081,577
2007: $189,639,045
2006: $194,663,079
2005: $208,306,817
2004: $184,193,950
2003: $152,749,814
2002: $125,928,583
2001: $112,287,143
2000: $107,588,459
Doreen – 2010 GTLU
March 5th, 2010 at 5:45 pm
GB7 -
Doesn’t Mariano make everything sound so simple?
I think what Montero has going for him is his determination and willingness to work in order to be the catcher for the NY Yankees. (His bat doesn’t hurt, either. )
————————————————————
That’s the one thing besides knowledge that would make Rivera a great instructor/coach. He can break it down to the simplest equasion. Even Francesa seemed to understand it. That’s rare.
gayle -
I agree 1,000% with what you just posted. Find a way to listen to what he said. He truly is an inspirational human being.
Gayle, Mo is the greatest – period. Apparently he said that this past WS was his fave – I missed it, so I will go listen to that again. He’s just the most amazing player and person.
There is no such thing as having too many good catching prospects. Its like saying, you have too many good pitchers. Also something that’s never true.
All of that stuff gets worked out over time.
The chances of every one of these catching prospects making it is slim.
The Yankees would LOVE to have that problem. It would give them a myriad of choices.
I agree with Let’s Go.
The Yankees are known throughout baseball as doing the best job in finding and developing kids in Latin America the last few years.
Just because they haven’t signed a “big” name, doesn’t mean they aren’t signing some interesting kids.
John Hart was talking about it yesterday.
I don’t know DePaula from Paula Abdul. I do know throwing 1.5+ million dollars on any young pitcher is a risk.
On Latin American pitchers, its a bigger risk.
Michael Inoa, last year’s “can’t miss ace”, has already had arm surgery. That’s ain’t good.
I’d rather sign 10 arms for 200K each and go with the idea that out of the 10, 1 or 2 will emerge, rather than putting all of your money into one pitcher.
Given the fragile nature of pitching health, its too risky to tie up huge money into one guy, IMO.
simplest ***equation***
I guess both teams got their batting practice in today. Igawa is making a run for one of the left handed specialist. Maybe he can be the 8th inning guy, ha. I hope it was just nerves for Whelan and Duff.
Russo and Nunez are going to be fun to watch in Scranton.
Looking at the WFAN website before, I think Francesa interviewed all the major players this week except for Jorge, Alex and AJ.
pat March 5th, 2010 at 5:55 pm
Looking at the WFAN website before, I think Francesa interviewed all the major players this week except for Jorge, Alex and AJ.
Alex was suppose to be on today, but his Attorneys told him to wait after he speaks to the Feds. He will be on with Mike later this year.
Hal isn’t cheap. Far from it. He just doesn’t want to spend foolishly and who can blame him.
Foolish spending by dad from 2001-2005 put the team in the hole it was in due to bad contracts and total disregard for re-stocking the farm system.
When you pay above slot for draft picks and sign Gary Sanchez and Jesus Montero for the largest Latin American bonues in history at their respective times, you aren’t cheap. You can also add in the DeLeon kid as another example of spending well for a kid.
When you sign these kids, there is power in numbers. If you just blow out the budget on 1-3 of them, you reduce the odds of hitting with them because its so precarious.
Especially when you don’t REALLY know how old some of these kids are.
For example, the people in Pittsburgh think Tabata is closer to 25 than 22. ‘Ya think those 3 years make a difference in evaluating him as a prospect? I sure do.
I watched Montero closely, and I thought he looked pretty good behind the plate. He seemed nimble enough and blocked balls well. He also seemed to frame pitches. I don’t think he threw, but I was pleased. If he can throw decently, he can catch, I believe.
Pat yes no Jorge or AJ or Joba. If I recall correctly also did not have Granderson on but I may be wrong about that
he was supposed to talk to Alex today but Alex had to cancel as his lawyers have told him NOT to do any one on one interviews prior to talking to the feds.Alex promised he would come on with him next time Francesa broadcasts from the Stadium. Yankees and Alex tried to make it happen as of yesterday it was all set but this AM lawyers said no and Francesa said Alex had said that he wasn’t going to put restriction on what francesa could ask so I think that probably made the lawyers nervous as lawyers tend to be.
Great KGB commercial. Skinny guy texting for the phrase “I surrender” while in the ring with a sumo wrestler, amd it comes out, “Bring it on fat man.”
SJ, If Tony is on the bus, he’ll get to play I would think ??? He’s got to be feeling that swirling sensation in his gut…..I’ll be watching in on mlb.com
Montero’s interview on WFAN was terrific. He sounds like a very good kid in all of his interviews.
Most of the interview he just talked about wanting to get better behind the plate and how hard he was working on his defense.
It was interesting to listen to because it seemed like hitting was something of an afterthought.
When asked about whether hitting came naturally to him he said is was something that just came naturally to him, something that maybe God had given him.
The combination of power, contact and strike zone command he’s demonstrated so far is remarkable. All successful athletes have to work very hard, but there are some guys who just have an innate ability to square up a round ball with a round bat. And that seems to be Montero.
I really like Phil’s quotes from today. Still the same attitude as last season. That “I’m game. Whatever it is, bring it on.” attitude. He was right on with his self-analysis of today’s effort, too. Everyone should be pleased with today’s efforts re: the changeup.
Thanks Carl and Gayle.
Oh, and I like the bit about AAA not being ruled out yet. I hope that goes for Joba, too.
Gaudin & Mitre being out of options throws a wrench into things. Could get really interesting, especially if Mitre really has improved being further away from TJ.
I saw Montero a lot when he played for Charleston and when he was in Savannah, he rocked two bombs to left center in a game that went through the pine trees and over the street. Just high line drives. On defense, Pena will help him this spring, but, Wynegar will be a great help to him in Scranton.
Nick Swisher’s right wrist is OK. It hit the ground when he dove back to first base on that snap throw from the catcher. He was checked on the field, but Girardi said he’s fine.
*************************
Glad that Swish is OK
I’m glad he didn’t interview AJ. Mike would do what he normally does – kiss butt and then, off-air, kill the guy. He’s probably interrupt him a zillion times as well.
Oops, I forgot about Swish – he’s lucky he wasn’t hurt. At this point, you just want to emerge from ST healthy.
John Hart was great on 30/30/ yesterday (except for the part about picking the Sox to win a close race, lol)…
GB, That’s why Montero ( along with Hughes ) is not available for a trade….At least that’s what I’m told by the few guys I know that are in the game
Guy I was impressed with today was Kevin Russo. Swings a nice stick and looks to be able to play a number of positions.
If he can hit like that, I’d find a way to get him on the 25 man roster later in the season. A utility guy who can hit is a bonus.
Betsy, enjoy AJ tomorrow
Cano has looked amazing so far this spring.
blake
March 5th, 2010 at 6:26 pm
Cano has looked amazing so far this spring.
*************************
Woo hoo!! I knew he would
SJ,
I agree on Russo. He has a very nice swing – especially for a guy who profiles as a utility guy. He looks like he’s going to be able to square up the ball.
That’s just not an easy talent to find.
When he’s been healthy in the minors he has really hit – especially last year.
One issue with him is that he doesn’t play SS. If he could I’d really like him on the team this year because I do think he’s going to be at least a decent hitter at the next level.
Pat, I hope to – thank you again! It’s not a big deal how he performs, of course, but it’s still fun to see him out on the mound again.
He’s probably a better hitter than Pena, so does have a chance to make the team? If not, maybe they can play him at SS in AAA – maybe he’ll take to it.
Just listened to the Mariano interview. He’s the best. He really is.
I can’t wait to hear the overexhuberant internet crowd trash him for giving his opinion on Joba.
When folks decide to rip a guy like Mariano for giving his opinion (and it will happen on the internet), that’s when folks lose me.
Call me crazy but, I tend to give more weight to what Hall of Famers have to say about players than sofa scouts.
But, that’s just me, I could be wrong.
Pat M.
March 5th, 2010 at 6:22 pm
GB, That’s why Montero ( along with Hughes ) is not available for a trade….At least that’s what I’m told by the few guys I know that are in the game
————————————————————
Yeah, I’m not so sure that NYY would have traded Montero at all, and between Chamberlain and Hughes, Chamberlain would have been gone. Hughes is really maturing fast. Really is low maintenace. If you don’t have Mi:B-TV.com, get it. Well worth the price. That televise a lot of the scranton and Trenton games. Montero has to be watched to appreciate how much he’s evolved on defense. He’s been a Miguel Cabrera type hitter from the first day.
I’m anxious to watch Hughes this spring, as well as Chamberlain, but, just listening to him today…not much has changed since last year. Everything was working, not worried, etc. still seems to be denying that his issues are as much upstairs as in his arm.
Montero’s English has improved as much as his catching.
Sounds like a real nice, soft spoken kid. Perfect attitude for a phenom to have.
If you don’t have ***MiLB-TV.com***
CB, The over / under pool I invested in has lowered the min. from 25.00 to 20.00 after several of us complained that it didn’t leave much money left to buy into our favorite picks….So even though I have until March 30th to pick the over /under on all 30 teams, any imput is most welcomed….The key is finding 5 teams that will improve by let’s say 5 games from last season….I’m watching the Braves to start with, maybe the Reds as well….
SJ44 -
Mariano was unequivocal about where Joba should be. No hesitation whatsoever. Phil, however, he said he could see him either/or.
Hey, when Mariano speaks, you have to listen. (Do you think his input was requested?)
Nobody ever talks about the system coaches, but, Torre Tyson is a rising star. Should get a lot more help in Tampa. He did a great job in Charleston with the kids.
In defense of Joba….
He has the Clemens influence on him when it comes to post-game interviews.
Never admit failure….always credit the opponent.
Roger always thought it was a sign of weakness to ever admit your mechanics were off or you had any failure out there. He felt it would plant a negative seed in your head.
Joba seems to be the same kind of guy when it comes to that.
Today for example, he said his mechanics were fine. They were horrible and Girardi admitted as much later.
Its why I put little or no stock in post-game interview with athletes. They are either too vanilla or too unwilling to admit failure because it denotes weakness in their minds.
What I do expect from Joba this year is for him to be MUCH more coachable than he was last year.
If he goes off the reservation in that regard this year, then he goes to AAA to get a life lesson.
If he is more coachable, then he should be fine in whatever role he has with the team.
“Everything was working, not worried, etc. still seems to be denying that his issues are as much upstairs as in his arm.”
he picked up right where he left off…getting behind, shaking off the catcher, walking people and grooving fastballs. He was sick this week and its really early but you can’t ignore that it was a bad first impression. The results were bad and how he got to the results was also bad. Its not that significant because its the first outing of the spring but its not meaningless either.
Doreen, so does that make Mariano Agent Z ????
When I heard Mo say Joba should be setting up for him, it was a wrap for me.
Igawa for the 5th spot!
Igawa looked pretty descent today with the new arm angle.
“So even though I have until March 30th to pick the over /under on all 30 teams, any imput is most welcomed…”
Pat M.,
Would be happy to. But what are the over/ unders pegged at for each team? Do you have a link. If I can take a look at the predicted lines for each club I’ll tell you what I think.
I don’t usually watch francessa, as it annoys me how he repeats himself and doesn’t allow anyone else to talk, but I was glad I did today. I really enjoyed all the player interviews. MF was good w/ Montero, helping him to put the head set on, even if he did call him Jose at the end. Mo and Andy are 2 classy guys. CC and Phil as well. What a great team we have again this year.
Doreen,
Probably not. But, I do know more and more of the decisionmakers inside the organization believe Joba’s best role may be in the bullpen for a variety of reasons.
Some guys, regardless of upside, potential and all the other buzzwords, just aren’t cut out to be starters in the big leagues.
Its more than velocity. Its the whole package. Pace, command of 3 pitches, mound deportment, etc.
I was always a big believer in Joba going into the rotation.
However, you have to have your head in the sand or be too emotional in wanting him to be a starter to not see he is a MUCH different pitcher when he starts than when he relieves. At least over the last year +.
And please, don’t tell me he came into today’s game in relief and get cute. He pitches with a starters mentality and, at least for the last year, that hasn’t worked for him.
Now I don’t get all a twitter over his first spring training outing. Especially after he was sick for a week.
I do however, want to see improvement as he moves along th is spring. Particularly in the areas of fastball command, pitching smarts, pace and mound deportment.
If he is going to go back into Joba 2009 mode in the above 4 areas, I put him in the bullpen, go back to being a fastball/slider guy, and just let it fly.
WAY too early to make that decision right now. However, as Yogi would say, “it may be gettin’ late early” for Joba in terms of where his future role lies with the team.
Pat M -
I don’t know what that means.
I can’t help but think that when Montero was finish on Francesa’s show that he was thinking, “And this guy gets paid for this? I speak English better than he does.”
I didn’t catch Mo talking about Phil, darn. I’ll have to catch it later. I definitely take what Mo has to say seriously, but I was just surprised that he answered the question so unequivocally.
I don’t get why so many unnames scouts have decided that Phil is best off in the pen based on last year. He’s missed so much time as a starter that it’s not fair to judge him just yet. They also forget some of his really terrific starts he had, like the game against Texas last year. I LOVED how he didn’t want to come out of that game – he refused to shake Girardi’s hand, if I recall correctly. I wonder how scouts get their jobs in the first place as it seems they have zero conviction whatsoever. Phil got hurt and struggled in August 2007. That’s when Michael Kay decided he wasn’t special and the scouts consigned Phil to mediocrity. Shouldn’t scouts understand that the leg injuries really hurt him and that Phil would need time to recuperate?
Hi all
we are in Tampa and went to the game. Pretty cold in the shade.
Joba really disappointed. What did Mo say?
Kei Igawa really pitched well. What a surprise!
SJ44 -
Yeah, you’re probably correct that they would not solicit his opinion.
I always felt Joba should be a starter; then it evolved into, he should be given every chance to start; and then it’s become, pretty much, it will sort itself out and it’s not worth spending any time being concerned about how it ends up. Not that I don’t care; just that the Yankees are bigger than any individual on the team. Their first priority is to win and to put the team together in the way they think they can best accomplish that. If that means Joba is in the pen or Phil is in the pen or Gardner and Granderson are switching places every few days, that’s what it’ll be.
CB, I’m hoping for the updated Vegas lines this weekend, however the lines will flucuate somewhat until my deadline which is March 30th ( Passover )….
Shaking off a catcher in ST is just so……it’s unbelievable. What on earth was Joba thinking?
Joe, Mo said that Joba should be a set-up man/closer and he was unequivocal about it. I missed what he said about Phil, but just hearing him was very soothing.
“If he goes off the reservation in that regard this year, then he goes to AAA to get a life lesson.”
Again, it’s just the start of spring and way too early to make any decisions. But I don’t know if the real choice is between the rotation or bull pen for Joba.
Just my sense of it – but if Joba doesn’t make the rotation he and the team are probably better off with him in the minors so that he can get his head and his mechanics straightened out.
The dismaying part of today’s game for me was Joba shaking the cervelli off and doing so twice in a row on at least one sequence.
It’s just hard to understand. Especially after the team has talked to him about it over an over.
And I don’t think having his role going to the bull pen is going to fix that problem sufficiently.
I don’t think sending him to the pen is going to fix the problem. It will only hide it. It isn’t going to get to the root cause of his issues.
Pat,
Send me the exact lines you want to get in on or a link to them and I’ll give you my input.
As much as it might be three years to late, I’ll be interested in seeing how much the new arm angle changes Igawa’s results. I hold out very little hope but am waiting to be shocked.
“I don’t think sending him to the pen is going to fix the problem. It will only hide it. It isn’t going to get to the root cause of his issues.”
Totally agree, plus Robertson is making me think more and more that he could handle a setup role.
Doreen,
The way I look at it is, you pitch your way to a role on the team. That’s why I like competition.
It isn’t about stats or numbers in the spring. Its about improvement.
Today, Phil threw a bunch of changeups and you can see his confidence growing with that pitch. That’s huge for him.
If his changeup is ready by the end of spring, it won’t matter what Joba does because Phil will be the 5th starter.
He has the stuff and temperment to fill that role if the change comes around.
We saw Joba shaking off Cervelli in a ST game. That’s just ridiculous.
That, more than anything else, bothered me because it tells me he still doesn’t get it yet.
The results? Immaterial to me because the kid was sick and it was his first ST outing. Last year CC gave up 5 runs in his first ST outing and the same clowns panicked then as they are now about Joba.
Its all about improvement for me. If he improves, he will start. If his game cries “bullpen” for the reasons I outlined above, he will go out there and be fine.
Nick Johnson’s OB% to be outdone by his ONDL%?
“As much as it might be three years to late, I’ll be interested in seeing how much the new arm angle changes Igawa’s results. I hold out very little hope but am waiting to be shocked.”
I agree, it seemed like when he dropped down a bit it helped him keep the ball down a little better. He might could be a situational lefty with the new arm slot.
Not sure if it would help or hurt, but, it may need to come down to fining Chamberlain $100 a crack every time he shakes off a catcher’s sign. He may end up owing the team his paychecks every two weeks.
Thanks Betsy
(by the way I’m doing this from my iPhone
I always thought Joba should be a starter but like sj44 said you can’t keep your head in the sand
I said it yesterday this ST is his last chance to be a starter. And that’s not the worst thing. In life,we have to accept things the way they are.
i still think joba should be given at least some of the season to see if he can be a good starter
decent starters are just so hard to find & expensive
now i have to say i am at least leaning more towards him in the pen especially after the great mo said he would have joba in the pen
i just can’t get the great games joba pitched against becket & the few after the asb out of my head where he looked like the best pitcher in baseball effortlessly
another nice problem to have is robertson who has looked better than mo in relief
man is girrardi going to have his hands full deciding wich pitchers to take north
“Totally agree, plus Robertson is making me think more and more that he could handle a setup role.”
At the end of last season, Robertson was a much more worthy set up guy than Joba was.
Putting Joba in the pen doesn’t fix him. Girardi himself said it today – Joba’s mechanics were bad.
You can take a bad starter and make him a mediocre to good reliever by switching roles, but that shouldn’t be the goal with Joba.
Send him down if needed and give Robertson the 8th inning. They have a very deep pen.
“We saw Joba shaking off Cervelli in a ST game. That’s just ridiculous.
That, more than anything else, bothered me because it tells me he still doesn’t get it yet.”
SJ, do you think that Joba’s early success gave him a sense of entitlement and security that perhaps he shouldn’t have yet or do you think he just plain ole doesn’t get it.
CB,
As far as Joba’s mechanics, I wonder if for example, he’s in the pen, and its just about 2 pitches and emptying the tank 3 days a week, if his mechanics would firm up.
I don’t know, just throwing it out there.
He just seems so robotic out there as a starter. Its almost as if he is afraid to just cut it loose.
Its hard to understand because he came up as a starter.
Strange deal all around.
i meant better than joba not mo
wow
blake
March 5th, 2010 at 7:06 pm
“As much as it might be three years to late, I’ll be interested in seeing how much the new arm angle changes Igawa’s results. I hold out very little hope but am waiting to be shocked.”
I agree, it seemed like when he dropped down a bit it helped him keep the ball down a little better. He might could be a situational lefty with the new arm slot.
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At worst, it makes him more palpable in a trade if the results are good.
It must have made Phil feel good to break off a couple of good change-ups……He said today that his FB was all over the place, presumably because he was pretty hyped up.
It is so obvious to anyone watching the game that Joba gets into trouble when he slows the game down, nibbles and shakes off the catcher (if Cervelli’s game calling is good enough for CC, it should be good enough for Joba). Why doesn’t he see that?
I have always thought he deserved the chance to start, but I am beginning to wonder.
Although is far too early to make a determination with Joba, if he continues to shake off his catchers and work up high pitch counts, he could be in danger of starting the season at AAA particularly if Gaudin and Mitre make strong cases to stay and Melancon shines for a bullpen role or Girardi feels strongly enough to have a 2nd lefthander in the bullpen.
It could shock Joba into reality that his job is not etched in stone.
He’ll get another 4-5 outings before hard decisions are made and he’d better capitalize on all of them.
Joe, you’re very welcome! I’m sure the interviews will be up on WFAN.com later….
CB, I see your logic however if they do indeed send him to the pen, then he’s back to being really a 2 pitch guy…..Joba has been a complex situation for me…..I still think his issue is his inability to duplicate his windup, his delibiration between pitches……Even during his 07 splash, there was a game vs. Cleveland ( I think ) when he just started shaking off Molina, and it cost the club the game….I have to say though, I’ll always remember him outpitching Beckett in Fenway……SJ, Bucs aren’t being televised
Cb
I respect your opinion, but I disagree here. Joba got. A lot of rope last year. What makes you think he’s suddenly going to get it in Scranton? I think Dave Eiland and Joe need to make the call here.
Blake,
I don’t think so. I think that sometimes the business side of the game gets in kids heads.
Make no mistake, Joba wants to be a starter for one BIG reason. BIG money.
Even if you stink as a starter, you can make a lot more money as a starter than as a setup guy/future closer.
The Yankees however, want to win games. They don’t have the luxury of having a 4 inning starting pitcher because he wants to start.
Therein lies the rub.
Also, some guys, regardless of stuff, simply don’t have the head to be starting pitchers.
I’m leaning (because of his innate stubborness on things like shaking off the catchers) toward that being an issue with Joba.
I need to see more though before coming to that conclusion.
I need 2-3 more weeks to know to get a better feel for it.
imo if joba struggles in st sending him to AAA for a while will work wonders
make him earn his way back
this might be a perfect example of a pitcher being better off getting sent down
SJ,
I agree – it’s just very strange. I can’t recall another situation like this outside of an injury.
He doesn’t look remotely like the pitcher he was in 2008.
I guess it’s possible that a simpler role would allow him to focus on his mechanics more but I’m just not sure.
I agree that he was much more fired up as a reliever last year. But I didn’t think he pitched that well out of the pen. Better perhaps. But given how badly he was throwing the ball as a starter at the end of the season, I don’t think “better” is really that much to write home about. As I said, Robertson was a better relief pitcher at the end of last year than Joba was as a relief pitcher. I’d trust the ball with Robertson much more than I would Joba if he keeps this up.
My gut sense is that if he doesn’t make the rotation he should be in AAA. Not saying that will happen, but that’s my gut sense.
To me it’s not really an issue of him needing to go the pen. I’m more concerned with whether or not he needs the Halladay treatment at come the end of march.
If it comes to be the case that Chamberlain buys a ticket to Scranton, Jason Hirsh is my pick to take the spot. I’d also consider sending Chamberlain to the best pitching coach in the syatem which is probably aldred. I’d also hire Mike Marshall and let him be on retainer to instruct and teach. Give Chamberlain to him for about 3 weeks before sending him back to Scranton.
SJ, I understand and I really can’t blame him for wanting to start but I really was hoping that he would have taken a look at last year and come in to ST a changed man so to speak. I really was expecting to hear stuff like “Joba has lost 10 lbs and is in the best shape of his life” coming in to ST. I’m trying not to make to much of a 1st ST start but it is looking like the same old story with him so far and its not so much the results but how he’s getting there with the shake offs and the falling behind counts…who knows, he may come out blazing next time out, we will just have to see.
touching story about pitcher Trever Miller’s daughter, Grace, who was born w/a disease so rare that it doesn’t even have a name:
http://www.stltoday.com/stltod.....enDocument
“I see your logic however if they do indeed send him to the pen, then he’s back to being really a 2 pitch guy…..Joba has been a complex situation for me…..I still think his issue is his inability to duplicate his windup, his delibiration between pitches……”
Pat,
Your right. He doesn’t repeat his delivery well now. Before he did. Your also right that he always shook his catcher off inappropriately. Now it’s a much bigger problem than it was prior because he’s lost out there.
The problem with reducing him to 2 pitches is that his fastball has been his biggest problem – both its velocity and his command. His fastball was just flat last year.
I can see his velocity going up a tick by moving him to the pen, but I don’t know how great his command will ever be if he can’t repeat his delivery.
To me it’s his mechanics that are the issue in question more than his role. There’s an argument to be made of course that his mechanics would improve in a new role out of the pen, but I not so sure on that.
And last season, I didn’t think he was particularly good out of the pen. He was just better than bad which is what he’d become as a starter.
That fastball he threw to Feliz in the Series that Feliz took him deep on just stunk. 96 and flat. I know that the problem was him throwing all those sliders to run the count to 3-2 and he just served up that terrible fastball but that is just not what you want out of a high leverage reliever.
And in 2007-2008 Joba’s fastball had much more life to it – pen vs. starter. Didn’t matter. Even on a 3-2 count he could throw a fastball by a hitter looking fastball.
He couldn’t do that in the world series last year – and that to a light hitting guy.
They have to fix his mechanics. You don’t do that in the majors.
If Joba’s problem is mechanics, and not injury, I would rather see him in AAA than in the bullpen. I think it would be a wake-up call for him, as well, in terms of coachability – realizing he still needs coaching, even though he has had some success on the ML level.
I often think the worst think that ever happened to Joba was being called up in 2007. I know it helped the team reach the playoffs, but it opened up such a can of worms and you can’t undo what’s been done.
I was very happy the Yankees went out and got a 4th starter in Vazquez, because I could not wrap my head around a rotation that included Joba and Phil and Andy because the innings issue for all three isn’t clear. Don’t misunderstand me, I’m not being negative here, but Andy’s older, Joba was not a 6 inning pitcher last year and Phil has innings limits. I just kept seeing “overexposure” for the pen all over the place.
At the same time, it stinks that one of Joba or Phil has to be dealt with in a less than ideal way, since I do believe that both could be very effective starters for the Yankees eventually. Now, I also think the Yankees will do whatever they feel will help them win. Perhaps Joba goes to the pen this season, but gets a new opportunity next year. I really don’t know how all the innings computations work in that regard. But things will get worked out.
By the way, Mo said he could see Phil in either role – starter or relief pitcher.
Joe in LI -
Have a wonderful time in Tampa!
CB, I’m ashamed to admit to this, but I really don’t know how to forward links…However, if you go to Pinnaclesports.com & go to Baseball futures the current lines are up….I can turn in my picks anytime I want,however it must be all 30 teams……Yanks are heavy favs to win 95, whereas the Sox are slight dog to win 95…..This is not the final numbers but they do give me some insight……
Pat M,
Robbie is looking like he wants that #5 spot so far this spring, lets hope he keeps it up.
CB, Just my opinion,but I think he needs to be stronger in his core muscles….Like Blake mentioned, I was hoping for a real fit 2010 model of Joba…Swisher the party boy came to camp in great shape…..I don’t have the answer for Joba, but he has maybe 6 more starts to get right…..
Pat,
I’ll take a look. Do you want to get in now or can you wait for teams to shape up in camp?
Joba Chamberlain is not an ace.
Pat M,
highlight the link you want to forward, right click on your mouse and choose copy. Make a new post here, write cluck on your mouse and choose paste.
I’m with Mo. Joba to the pen.
blake
March 5th, 2010 at 7:32 pm
Pat M,
Robbie is looking like he wants that #5 spot so far this spring, lets hope he keeps it up.
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He hasn’t shown that much. 3-4 this spring and not a hit with runners in scoring position, yet.
Jay Bruce just got rung up on a check swing strike three. Bat didn’t even reach the back of the plate at the bat snapped off in his hands.
“And last season, I didn’t think he was particularly good out of the pen. He was just better than bad which is what he’d become as a starter.”
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I really was surprised when Joba went to the pen last year and everyone in the media and a lot of fans were fawning over his “transformation.” The only thing Joba had going for him in the pen was a few ticks on the fastball. Other than that, he was nothing like the guy we saw in the pen in 2007. All his pitches were just incredibly flat.
If Joba goes to the pen this year I think people are going to be extremely disappointed. I have said for a while this offseason that when he was great as a starter he was great as a reliever. When he was mediocre as a starter, he was mediocre as a reliever.
I assume the Yankees recognize that the bullpen did not fix Joba last year so I hope they do not think it is going to fix him this year. If he does not win the 5th spot, AAA should definitely be considered. Not to mention I believe if he is down there for 2 months they can push his FA clock back.
(This has nothing to do with his start today btw, especially since I did not even watch the game)
CB, I always like to watch clubs until they hit March 17th, that’s usually when things really start to round out…Besides, the injury concerns are always a concern…..Right now I have highlighted some teams based upon last season , winter transactions, that I’m paying note too…..The key is to find at least 5 / 7 teams that sre either improving or fading , that’s the key to winning….Those are the clubs I’m going to invest in heavily…..Or go for broke on 2 or 3 teams…..
Jobamania went to Joba’s head. He’s the end result of being rushed to the major leagues before his time.
If going to Class A ball was good enough to straighten out Roy Halladay, then it’s good enough for Joba.
He’s not seeing the errors of his ways.
Let’s go Yanks, did toy see him & Hughes throw today ??? Hughes displayed his change-up, and it was pretty…..Joba looked the same as he did last August…..I give a little break because he was ill, but basically it was the same Joba…..Shaking off pitches is an issue…..Especially frustrating for your catcher and middle infielders….Besides, a pitcher will never get into a groove if you keep telling your catcher to stick it….
I admit it.
I had the Joba Rules T-Shirt.
I bought into it
I’m listening to Jack Curry in the post-game Diamond Daily interview he does with Chris Shearn. He said he spoke to Cashman after the game and that Cash was blunt as to what he expects from both Phil and Joba. For Phil it’s the changeup – Cash says he needs that pitch. For Joba, it’s FB command.
new thread
I didn’t see the game but from reading the blog it appears that Corhusker Joba showed up instead of Nardi Joba.
For the people who are advocating the Halladay treatment.
Maybe it’s a good idea.
Nardi helped Joba before.
Maybe he can do it again.
Maybe the pen isn’t the best place for him ?
Let’s give him a little more time.
Glad to hear Phil looked good.
And that Montero was OK catching.
Sean Rodriguez of the Rays looks like a stud. Great swing. The Rays also got a couple of high ceiling 21 year olds in Torres and Sweeney in the Kazmir deal. Rodriguez was the least prospect of the three in the trade. Scary.