Spring Training Game 3: Yankees vs. Tampa Bay
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 05, 2010 
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YANKEES
Jeter SS
Granderson CF
Teixeira 1B
Rodriguez 3B
Posada DH
Thames LF
Cano 2B
Swisher, RF
Cervelli C
RHP Phil Hughes (8-3, 3.03 in 2009)
RAYS
Bartlett SS
Rodriguez LF
Longoria 3B
Zobrist 2B
Upton CF
Navarro C
Johnson DH
Rugiano RF
Richard 1B
LHP David Price (10-7, 4.42 in 2009)
TIME/TV: 1:05 p.m., YES Network
WEATHER: Temperatures could get into the 60s and the sun is supposed to be shining through a few clouds this afternoon. It’s been windy the past few days, and today shouldn’t be an exception.
UMPIRES: HP Marty Foster, 1B Mark Carlson, 2B Andy Fletcher, 3B Chad Fairchild
ON THE LINE: This will be the first spring appearance for both Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain, the top candidates for the final spot in the rotation. Hughes will start, with Chamberlain scheduled to pitch right after him.
NO NICK: After feeling some stiffness in his lower back yesterday, Nick Johnson is likely out of the mix for this game.
THREE FOR THREE? Brett Gardner, Jamie Hoffmann and Ramiro Pena were the only Yankees to start each of the first two spring training games. They started in different positions each time.
PRICE IS RIGHT: Rays starter David Price was 7-7 before winning three of his final four starts last season. His last start of the year was a win against the Yankees. He allowed two hits in seven innings. Phil Hughes also pitched in that game and allowed three hits in one-third of an inning.
UPDATE, 9:23 a.m.: A few notes from the clubhouse.
• Nick Johnson can still feel the stiffness in his back, but “very little.” He did some exercises to loosen the muscles this morning. “After those exercises, it loosened up pretty good,” he said.
• Kevin Russo is scheduled to play today after missing the past two days because of an illness.
• Elliot Johnson is part of the traveling roster for the Rays. He’s the guy who slammed into Francisco Cervelli and broke his wrist two years ago.
• Highly touted prospects Tim Beckham, Jeremy Hellickson and Reid Brignac are also with the Rays today. Desmond Jennings is not.
• Scheduled to come off the Yankees bench: C Jesus Montero, 1B Juan Miranda, 2B Reegie Corona, SS Eduardo Nunez, 3B Kevin Russo, LF Reid Gorecki, CF Greg Golson, RF Jon Weber, DH Jorge Vazquez. At some point this season, that could very well be the starting lineup for Scranton/Wilkes-Barre.
UPDATE, 10:40 a.m.: With David Price starting for Tampa Bay, Curtis Granderson should get at least one more at-bat against a left-handed pitcher. He needs to get more and more so that he can re-evaluate his offseason progress against them.
“As of right now I’ve had eight total pitches against a left-handed pitcher since I’ve been here,” he said. “I can’t take anything good or bad out of these eight (pitches) considering I’m not ready to go and those pitchers aren’t ready to go. Everybody is working on stuff right now just trying to get themselves ready to go, and once we get enough at-bats in and they get enough innings in, then we’ll be able to have a little better evaluation.”
Granderson saw three pitches from lefty Paul Maholm in the spring opener, and he saw five pitches from Kei Igawa during live batting practice.
UPDATE, 12:44 p.m.: It’s actually a pretty nice day for a game. The wind is still blowing, but it’s a little warmer than it was the past two days. A few players have been called to the front of the home dugout to have pictures taken (bat on their shoulder, frozen after a swing, taking a knee, that sort of thing). Right now it’s Greg Golson’s turn. They must feel a little bit ridiculous doing this in front of a few thousand people.
UPDATE, 1:14 p.m.: Sean Rodriguez is fighting for a job with the Rays, and he just took Hughes deep for his third home run of the spring. The wind might have helped carry the ball out to center field. It was just barely over the wall.
UPDATE, 1:37 p.m.: That’s probably it for Hughes. 2 IP, 1 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 1 BB, 0 K, 1 HR. A lot of hard hit balls in the air, but he also threw a nice changeup to Ben Zobrist.
UPDATE, 1:51 p.m.: Nick Swisher was checked on the field after an odd collision with Chris Richard at first base. The catcher made a snap throw to first and caught Swisher off the base, but in the dive back to the bag, Swisher kind of collided with Richard and stayed on the ground for a while. After a long conversation with the medical staff and Joe Girardi, Swisher stayed in the game.
UPDATE, 1:54 p.m.: Television replays suggest it was Swisher right wrist that was hurt, but he’s still in there playing right field. Chamberlain is pitching.
UPDATE, 1:56 p.m.: Chamberlain is struggling but just got bailed out by a great play from Robinson Cano, salvaging a bad snap throw from Francisco Cervelli and turning it into an out at second. A colleague just described it as “Robby Alomar play.”
UPDATE, 2:10 p.m.: Cervelli gets revenge for the broken wrist of two years ago by stretching a double into a triple. Great hustle on that play.
UPDATE, 2:23 p.m.: Chamberlain’s day is done after a ground-rule double that sent Nick Swisher tumbling into the bullpen. Kevin Whelan in to pitch.
Not a very good day for Chamberlain. Two triples, a double and three walks. Three earned runs so far, and two of his runners still on the bases.
UPDATE, 2:37 p.m.: Hughes: 33 pitches, 18 strikes. Chamberlain: 33 pitches, 14 strikes.
UPDATE, 2:41 p.m.: Kei Igawa in from the bullpen to save the day, getting Ben Zobrist and B.J. Upton in order to strand the bases loaded. Who called it?
UPDATE, 3:12 p.m.: Chamberlain just estimated that he was at 60 or 70 percent today. He threw a short bullpen on Wednesday, but otherwise hasn’t worked out in three days. That might have played a part in today’s outing. Or maybe it was just an early spring game with him still trying to find his stride. Or maybe he was just bad today.
UPDATE, 3:22 p.m.: Cervelli: “Next time, they will hit my glove. Don’t worry.”
UPDATE, 4:24 p.m.: The writers have now been in the clubhouse for well over an hour. It’s hard to follow the game too closely from down here, but it was fun to stand with Christian Garcia and watch R.J. Swindle flip super slow curveballs.
Phil Hughes told us he was happy with his offspeed stuff today, especially his changeup, but his fastball command was bad. He threw three straight changeups to Ben Zobrist.
UPDATE, 4:45 p.m.: That’s it. The game got slower than a Swindle curveball in the late innings, and ended with a 12-7 Yankees loss. Getting Girardi in a few minutes.
Chad, did you or anyone ask Girardi why Hughes was pitching first or if there was significance to that?
Age before beauty?
Reverse alpha order?
Just finished watching 30 Clubs in 30 Days and anytime you forget, even for a moment, the history of our favorite franchise, something like this brings you right back. Good lord is all I can say.
When I was watching their favorite 9 (top 9 moments in Yankee history) it really hit me that there are so many phenomenal moments that you would need more like a top 100 to capture them all. (And they said as much when they presented them.) One of my personal favorites, Jeter’s shovel pass in the postseason game against Oakland, didn’t make the list. It seems like the majority of the moments were devoted to the long ball, though not all.
Two of the nine that still brought tears to my eyes were DJ’s homer against BYK in the 2001 WS, and (drum roll) – AARON BLEEPIN’ BOONE’S HOME RUN, along with Kay’s call.
I’m not suggesting that it means anything that Hughes is starting the game but I do think its interesting given the fact that Joba was the starter last year. I would say Gaudin is higher on the depth chart than Mitre and he threw first in the opener. It probably means nothing and maybe they just flipped a coin on it but you never know I guess.
No significance to Hughes starting. He’s going to start today, Chamberlain is going to start the next time they pitch.
Or was it Sterling’s call? I guess I was always focused on the homer and not the call.
Trisha, it was a pretty cool show and I’d say they got the prime 9 pretty close.
http://www.theyankeeu.com/2010.....ints-15583
According to this article, this will be our lineup:
Derek Jeter SS
Nick Johnson DH
Mark Teixeira 1B
Alex Rodriguez 3B
Robinson Cano 2B
Jorge Posada C
Curtis Granderson CF
Nick Swisher RF
Brett Gardner LF
This is the way I wanted to see it. Cano in the #5 spot. Beautiful.
Thanks Chad..just wanted to see if you asked.
blake, there were some I thought would be in their prime 9 that weren’t. That just goes to show you how darned many phenomenal moments there have been!
yanksin27 tell ya what. I don’t know when the article was written – I didn’t open it but did see the lineup – but I would call NJ questionable for the 2 hole…
I’m excited, but a bit nervous – I want Phil to do well (though, who knows, if he’s going to throw the change a lot).
well I watched half of 30/30 and then my son called to chat. Since he usually communicates by text, I was happy to hear from him, even if my dear Yankees had to wait.
Got today’s game set to record, can’t wait to see the young guns
Betsy, I am sure Phil will do just fine.
http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20100.....lkw116.jpg
CC looks awfully, um, fat in the gut here.
http://cache4.asset-cache.net/.....C714509FD6
Compared to last year….
Kate, I’m sure he will, too!
Did anyone see the back page of the Post this morning???
Its a giant picture of Johnny Damon and it says “Miss Me Yet”.
I think they are being a bit presumptiuous and hasty, but I have to admit- having NJ scratched from his first ST start doesn’t give me the best feeling.
Trisha
No Mantle moments, either. The 565-foot homer in Washington; the shot off the facade in Yankee Stadium; the walk-off homer in the World Series against St. Louis (’64).
That’s OK though, they picked some good ones. Gehrig as number one was appropriate, for sure.
trisha,
The article was written yesterday, it has a link with Francesa interviewing Girardi on WFAN. From what Girardi said, here’s what to expect:
1. Nick Johnson will bat second.
2. Curtis Granderson is going to play center field.
3. Cano will hit fifth to avoid “stacking lefties” (5-9: Cano, Posada, Granderson, Swisher, Gardner).
4. Girardi believes Cano’s struggles w/RISP are sample size issues.
5. Posada will catch 100-120 games.
6. Nick Johnson will play 1B 2-3 times a month, spelling Tex, who will DH on those days.
7. Granderson plays every day.
I’m very pleased to hear all of that, it sounds like the team’s just about set, the only questions they have now are in the bullpen and, of course, the #5 starter. As for Nick Johnson, what makes him questionable in the #2 hole? Yes, he has an unfortunate injury history, but he is a great hitter when healthy. He has experience as a #2 hitter and has done very well, especially since he gets on base at a tremendous rate. Do not worry about Johnson, he can HIT. He makes contact around 90% of the time he swings, that’s just awesome. If he can stay in the lineup, hitting behind Jeter and in front of Tex and A-Rod, he’s gonna have a career year.
That don’t call it Spring Training for nothing, Betsy.
Erica
The NY Post is too dense to understand that Granderson replaced Damon and Nick replaced Matsui.
I normally go to the Post site to read their Yankee articles, but now I doubt I’m going to do that – that really ticks me off. Thanks for the warning, Erica.
By the way, something you might be interested in. I was watching Jeopardy yesterday and the returning champ said during the break that his granddfather, Oscar, was on the board of the Children’s Television Workshop. One day he caused a bit of a stir and, because of that (sort of as a joke), they named Oscar the Grouch after him, lol
Rich, I’m not nervous like a regular season game – I very well know what ST is about. That said, I want Phil to do very well because I want him to make the rotation. What can I say?
They want Granderson to adjust to playing in NY. If he returns to being the hitter he was in 2007, he will move up in the lineup. He’ll probably move up even if he is the 2008 version.
Betsy
I meant CC’s girth.
Betsy – Romine wasn’t built in a day
March 5th, 2010 at 8:28 am
I normally go to the Post site to read their Yankee articles, but now I doubt I’m going to do that – that really ticks me off. Thanks for the warning, Erica.
By the way, something you might be interested in. I was watching Jeopardy yesterday and the returning champ said during the break that his granddfather, Oscar, was on the board of the Children’s Television Workshop. One day he caused a bit of a stir and, because of that (sort of as a joke), they named Oscar the Grouch after him, lol
*************
Thats pretty funny. I actually know someone who used to work for Sesame Street. At one point she offered me the chance to go to the set and see what it was like. However, I was in college then and everytime they were filming I had to be in Albany. By the time I had a chance, she stopped working there. I am still kicking msyelf
Betsy – Romine wasn’t built in a day
March 5th, 2010 at 8:28 am
By the way, something you might be interested in. I was watching Jeopardy yesterday and the returning champ said during the break that his granddfather, Oscar, was on the board of the Children’s Television Workshop. One day he caused a bit of a stir and, because of that (sort of as a joke), they named Oscar the Grouch after him, lol
****************************
That’s awesome! My inner Oscar is on display today-I overslept, and burned my finger on my flat iron (nothing too bad). Definitely not a good start to the day. lol
I really hope Bob Raissman is wrong about the Yankees ( I don’t give a hoot about what the folks at YES think) being furious with Alex that he didn’t inform them that he’d seen Dr. Galea. Granted, I think Raissman is skunk and the News does hate the Yankees…….
It starts with the media and NJ. Harper has an article on NJ and you know we are going to have to read about this poor guys’ contstant stream of bad luck. I feel like I have to hold my breath every time Johnson puts on his uniform – I hope the feeling goes away as it’s not a pleasant one.
yankswin27, I was referring specifically to his stiff back yesterday, and I was saying it mostly tongue-in-cheek.
I think I’ll still vote for Granderson to be in the 2 hole. I like my second position player to be able to run. Can’t tell you exactly why…
Later y’all.
Speaking of Jeopardy, Cablevision may stop carrying WABC as of Sunday unless a new deal is reached. That would be suboptimal.
Oh, Rich – lol. Well, I expect the players to come into camp in shape – not looking like that. I’ve heard this before, but in the old days, ST was for getting into shape whereas now they are already fit when they come to camp.
In my opinion, the bullpen/rotation is set. Girardi said he’s taking the 12 best arms out of Spring Training. CC Sabathia, A.J. Burnett, Andy Pettitte, Javier Vazquez, Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain, Mariano Rivera, Damaso Marte, David Robertson, Chan Ho Park, Alfredo Aceves, and Chad Gaudin are those 12 guys if you ask me. The only question with the pitching is where you place Hughes and Chamberlain, but they’ll figure it out.
The final roster battle after that? 5th outfielder, seriously, that’s the only other roster battle. It’s between Jamie Hoffmann and Marcus Thames. Based on Thames’ track record, he has the inside track on the job based on his tremendous power off the bench and his ability to hit lefties. However, Hoffmann can hit lefties as well. Not only that, but he has speed and he can play all three OF positions very well. So right now I’d say Thames is the frontrunner, but by the end of Spring Training, I think they’ll give Hoffmann the job if he shows any sign of potential.
I normally don’t pay attention to this stuff, but Cablevision will be blamed (not ABC/Disney) even if they are in the right. If they pull a major network from a huge metropolitan area, they are idiots because they will suffer a huge public relations outcry.
Rich in NJ
March 5th, 2010 at 8:36 am
Speaking of Jeopardy, Cablevision may stop carrying WABC as of Sunday unless a new deal is reached. That would be suboptimal.
***********
I sent Cablevision a really nasty e-mail telling them if I lose one minute of ABC, I am dropping them.
Its beyond ridiculous.
With what I am paying a month and its one headache after another with them. First it was HGTV and Food Network for 3 weeks in January. Now we may lose ABC. Not permissable.
Betsy- Well he and his wife are expecting their 4th child.
Rich- Yep, but you know what. I don’t care if ABC goes away. And now because they started this nonsense about wanting to be paid. Read this article.
http://www.tvweek.com/blogs/tv.....-money.php
So instead of paying the low low price of $150 bucks for cable. I’ll be paying a lot more.
Erica, darn – bad luck. Erin, I hope you’re ok!
The Yankees should be furious with themselves. They knew or should have known that Lindsay was close to Galea, yet they approved him anyway.
Jen, maybe it’s what they call sympathy weight. He gained weight so he could be in tune with his wife, lol. I’m not worried at all about CC, but it doesn’t look good.
Eica- Read the article I posted. This is a slippery slope to go down. Plus do you think Dolan is going to take a $40 million dollar hit from his bottom line? Who do you think he is going to go after to make up that loss? YOU and ME the little people!
jennifer
Thanks for the article. I’m not taking sides. I just want to watch Jeopardy…and the Academy Awards.
Rich, just because Alex saw the guy doesn’t mean he did anything wrong.
Rich- I’m just showing what abc started. What do you think NBC will do if both CBS and ABC get $$ to broadcast FREE tv over cable? They’ll want a piece too.
Everyone goes after the little guy/gal for money. The ones that don’t have it.
Betsy – Romine wasn’t built in a day
March 5th, 2010 at 8:41 am
Erica, darn – bad luck. Erin, I hope you’re ok!
******************
Thanks Betsy-I’m fine, luckily it wasn’t too bad of a burn.
jennifer
March 5th, 2010 at 8:42 am
Eica- Read the article I posted. This is a slippery slope to go down. Plus do you think Dolan is going to take a $40 million dollar hit from his bottom line? Who do you think he is going to go after to make up that loss? YOU and ME the little people!
*******************
Thats why I want to switch to Verizon
They’ll be going after verizon for this as well. ABC has started a snowball that won’t stop.
Betsy
I agree. I’m merely pointing out that the responsibility for even being in this situation isn’t all on him.
Betsy,
Hoping Phil and Joba both do well enough to show they both belong in the rotation. CC, AJ, Joba and Phil would give the Yanks a solid rotation for the next 6 or 7 years. If thay both do well it will be Joe and Dave’s decision as to how to get the innings for the other guy. I see Joba getting the #5 spot and would not be suprised to see Phil get some starts in SWB and come up mid season like Price did for Tampa last year. Let’s go Yankees!!!!
Actually the only way this will stop is if the FCC steps in and tell them that if they attempt to extort money from cable providers that they will yank their licenses to broadcast for free.
Erica
“Thats why I want to switch to Verizon”
I thought about it, but they don’t provide all the news channels in my area, and in order to get IFC you have to get Showtime, and I prefer HBO.
Things are good in Yankee land when the only concern is over the 5th starter and the 3rd outfielder/9th hitter. I don’t see Mitre making the team, altho Girardi seems to like him.
Rich- It is even worse with the Mets. They knew he was going to that doctor, and approved it. I’d bet a lot of doctors are connected with people they shouldn’t be.
“Girardi believes Cano’s struggles w/RISP are sample size issues”
That, I do not believe, as Cano has had issues with this throughout his career. Also, he is obviously more anxious in RISP situations, probably because he knows what his numbers are, and it becomes a vicious cycle.
I noticed pitchers taking advantage of Cano with RISP as the year went on, as well. Being a notorious first ball hitter, they stopped throwing him anything hittable on the first couple pitches with men in scoring position. He obliged by swinging at garbage much of the time, and getting himself out.
That said, I think it is correctable. Last year, he concentrated on getting off to a better start, and he accomplished that. If he can train himself to relax with RISP, and have early success, the sky is the limit for him. He gets 80-90 RBI by hitting poorly in RBI situations, I can’t wait to see his numbers once he corrects it.
This Spring.
Will we see.
Nardi Joba, or Cornhusker Joba ?
Fastball Phil, or Changeup Phil ?
Betsy – Romine wasn’t built in a day
March 5th, 2010 at 8:18 am
http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20100…..lkw116.jpg
CC looks awfully, um, fat in the gut here.
====
Betsy,
He earned it!
Even if NJ gets injured, you can bring up a slew of options to DH, a list of names that could even include Montero. A limited stint at DH as an injury buffer gives the kid a taste of ML pitching and much needed experience.
Chad,
Any word on whether Brackman might throw an inning in an actual ST game?
Rays starting lineup (as per Tampa Bay blog):
Bartlett, SS
Rodriguez, LF
Longoria, 3B
Zobrist, 2B
Upton, CF
Navarro, C
D. Johnson, DH
Ruggiano, RF
Richard, 1B
Price, P
(much touted Jeremy Hellickson supposed to pitch in relief)
Not that anybody cares (I do) but
Chapman was hitting 97 on the gun already in ST.
“just because Alex saw the guy doesn’t mean he did anything wrong.”
I’ve been out of the loop this week so this may be a silly question but; has Alex or anyone not named anonymous said he was treated by Galea?
pat
March 5th, 2010 at 9:06 am
“just because Alex saw the guy doesn’t mean he did anything wrong.”
I’ve been out of the loop this week so this may be a silly question but; has Alex or anyone not named anonymous said he was treated by Galea?
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Not that I know of
For Longoria’s sake I sure hope he is wearing an elbow pad in today’s game.
It’s PAYBACK time Maddon.
interesting that Cervelli is the catcher today against the Rays…hopefully no collisions at the plate this year
Maddon better hope that
Headhunter Joba doesn’t show up today to go along with Nardi Joba.
“Chapman was hitting 97 on the gun already in ST.”
Saw some glowing reviews on Chapman via twitter last night.
Lets go Yankees!
Frank-
He didn’t fit in the budget.
And he just isn’t worth it.
You and I both know that.
Pat,
No. In fact, if Alex was a principle in the case, the Feds would have talked to him already.
The fact they haven’t even scheduled an interview yet should give folks an idea that he is not a focal point in the investigation.
I get the idea that some in the media need to pump some life into a quite ST.
However, they seem to be over striding to find something more to the Alex-Galea relationship that what’s already been reported.
Chapman’s velocity was never in question. It’s the rest of his game that’s iffy.
Cashman has been burned with supposed “can’t miss” international arms before so I don’t blame him for passing on Chapman.
That, and the budget set by Hal.
“The Yankees should be furious with themselves. They knew or should have known that Lindsay was close to Galea, yet they approved him anyway.”
rich in nj-
i’m shocked , just shocked that the yankees didn’t think ahead on a conditioning issue.
you’d think the head of the conditioning program would have thought of that, but to be fair to him,doubling up as the top hot dog vendor during games keeps him pretty busy
CC-
Yeah. He plain flat stinks.
No potential there at all !
Glad we passed on him.
Why not wait until the guy pitches in a game before you lament not signing him?
If every big market team passed on him, wouldn’t you think there is more to the story than reported MPH readings in side sessions?
The fact that he fell to the Reds should tell you that not every team thought he was worth the money.
Are they right? Time will tell.
He might throw 97 but it could wind up in the other batters box.
As the spring training goes on it will be interesting to see how the playing time for the following either grows or diminishes:
Hoffman, Thames, Nunez (could be a surprise), Ring and Logan.
I am also expecting either Gaudin or Mitre to be traded.
I hope that NJ does not fall apart to quickly. He is a young man and he gets hurt when he sneezes.
sj44-
has the frost on your car melted yet?
SJ-
You’re right.
Time WILL tell.
expensive or not.
One has to admit the kid has a BIG arm.
And I don’t lament it.
I admire the potential.
That’s all.
MTU, I guess that’s sarcasm, but maybe the Yankees know a bit more than we do about the situation. Notice how the big market teams ALL sat out on Chapman……..Also, who cares if he’s throwing 97? The problem with Chapman wasn’t that he throws hard. The Yankees (and apparently a lot of other teams that didn’t get seriousl involved) think the kid needs a lot more polishing in the minors; Chapman went to the team that is going to get him to the majors as quickly as possible. I have no problem with the Yankees refusing to agree to rush the kid just because he doesn’t have the patience to deal with the minors.
“I’ve been out of the loop this week so this may be a silly question but; has Alex or anyone not named anonymous said he was treated by Galea?
Hearsay is all I’ve seen. But the way I read it, he didn’t deny it when asked.
SJ, I think you’re right and it’s pathetic. Alex seems to be nonplussed and that’s the most important thing.
I think folks need to remember who recommended Dr. Lindsey. It was Dr. Phillipon.
Dr. Lindsey isn’t a focal point of any investigation. Galea is.
Teams don’t do FBI background checks on every doctor.
You do a cursory review. Lindsey isn’t part of any law enforcement investigation.
Raismann is basing his story today (the Yankees being “very upset” with Arod) on the fact that they brought up the story on the YES broadcasts.
The fact they brought it up on the broadcasts is evidence the Yankees are ticked off at Arod? Perhaps but, it would be nice to see more evidence than that leap of faith.
Why is it that people still equate velocity with quality? Chapman throws hard so he’s bound to be good?
SJ, do you think we could see Montero in the ML’s at any point this season getting meaningful AB’s?
“MTU, I guess that’s sarcasm, but maybe the Yankees know a bit more than we do about the situation. Notice how the big market teams ALL sat out on Chapman”
I’m certain they know more about it than we do. Doesn’t make ‘em right though. Way too early to tell, but it could end up being that the Yankees and others simply missed on this guy. It’s happened plenty of times before and will happen plenty of times going forward.
Raismann lost me with his claim that Yankee management wishes that Alex was still with Kate Hudson. Give me a break. The Yankees are that invested in Alex’s love life?
Betsy-
“MTU, I guess that’s sarcasm”
Indeed !
You don’t care if he throws 97.
In spring training ?
Lefty arms like that come along whenever Haley’s comet does.
If he needed some time for refinement so what.
That’s what Nardi Contreras is for.
Remember a guy name Igawa ?
We spent 40 Mill on his potential.
Betsy.
I admit it.
I’m greedy.
I wish the Yanks would steal as many “Chapman’s” as they can.
That potential is exceedingly rare.
Now, for Bohdi’s sake and ours let’s get DePaula.
Randy,
Crazy isn’t it? Coldest winter I’ve ever experienced in South Florida.
38 nights in my area of temperatures in the 40’s or below. That has never happened before.
I don’t mind 60’s during the day.
Its the colder nights that are killers!
Why would anyone think that the idiot broadcasters “speak” for the organization?
Frank, it’s not like the Yankees didn’t like him. They thought Chapman was raw and needed more time; he disagreed. I appreciate the fact that the Yankees didn’t promise this guy the world so they could sign him…
Well MTU, the Yankees felt he needed more time and Chapman apparently doesn’t want to put the time in in the minor leagues. If he succeeds, it’s not going to upset me as I have zero problem with the Yankees here.
Betsy – with velocity, you can accomplish a lot. Burnett has been getting by on his plus velocity for years, even though his location isn’t great.
Erin, did he say that? I skimmed the article and then clicked out of it as I hate Raissman; I’m sorry I even clicked on it.
I have no idea who this DePaula kid is, but it sounds like he’s going to the Mariners.
Frank-
Thank you Frank.
Betsy-
Why do people think velocity equates to quality ?
answer:
Because it’s one thing that can’t be taught.
It’s pure natural ability.
And that can easily translate to quality.
JMO
Betsy -Romine wasn’t built in a day
March 5th, 2010 at 9:34 am
Erin, did he say that? I skimmed the article and then clicked out of it as I hate Raissman; I’m sorry I even clicked on it.
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Actually, I think it was his source that offered that up. I stopped reading right after that.
cold nights, sunny days…that is maple syrup weather!
IIRC Farnsworth had high velocity/poor location
Too many people equate velocity with skill. The two don’t go together.
Also, not every pitching coach can “fix” guys. Nardi Contreras is a great self promoter.
Internet sites love him because he loves to talk. That makes fans think he is a pitching guru. He’s not.
In fact, I would argue that Gil Patterson knows more and is a better pitching coach than Nardi will ever be. Gil just isn’t a self promoter and isn’t giving interviews to internet sites.
He’s a guy I wish the Yankees never lost to the A’s. I’d have given him more money to keep him.
The best pitching coach in the organization below the major league level is Scott Aldred. He’s head and shoulders above Nardi and everybody. He’s going to be a top shelf ML pitching coach one day.
I think its significant that every big market team passed on Chapman. That surprised me.
That tells me that something more than just his radar gun readings are at play.
That’s why its probably best to watch him pitch in games to get some idea of what he’s about as a pitcher.
Could everybody but the Reds be wrong? Sure.
But, when was the last time that happened?
MTU
March 5th, 2010 at 9:06 am
Not that anybody cares (I do) but
Chapman was hitting 97 on the gun already in ST.
=====
Maybe the Yanks just like DePaula and/or Matias better. DePaula is already considerably polished and Matias is supposed to throw 99 mph.
Haven’t seen anything new on either front.
sigh….I never said Chapman stinks. But I see no reason to throw 30 mil at a pitcher that has significant question marks. Let him work the kinks out in the NL and then the Yanks can sign him in 4 years…when he’s only 25.
“Frank, it’s not like the Yankees didn’t like him. They thought Chapman was raw and needed more time; he disagreed.”
Yeah, I believe the Yankees liked him too. So far as Chapman signing with the Reds because he felt he didn’t need time in the minors, you seem to be implying his deal somehow allows him a spot on the Reds 25 man roster. Barring the unforseen, he’s almost certainly pitching for the Louisville Bats or Carolina Mudcats to start 2010.
“Why is it that people still equate velocity with quality? Chapman throws hard so he’s bound to be good?”
betsy-
velocity in any swing or throw sport is a measure of upside. in golf when you see michelle wie at fourteen hitting 300 yard drives, you know she has a high upside.
but like with her, chapman may take a long time before he reaches that upside, if ever.
you just never know.
ironically, athletes who have the ability to generate tremendous velocity, usually take it to the next level when they master the finesse side of their sport . pedro has an electric fastball, but a nasty change up. tiger can dial up 350 yards when he wants to, but has one of the best short games. arod finally got over the hump in the post season when he learned to hit ground balls back up the middle under pressure.
velocity is a starting point. velocity plus command of it’s opposite is the end point.
just my opinion though.
i’m partial to velocity.
the more the better.
i think most players don’t work hard enough on maximum velocity and if they have it lose it sooner than they need to.
joba comes to mind. hopefully he can reclaim it as he works on his command of secondary pitches.
to be great you need both.
“I have no idea who this DePaula kid is, but it sounds like he’s going to the Mariners.”
I’m not so sure about that.
So SJ doesn’t like Nardi as a pitching coach.
Now, for Bohdi’s sake and ours let’s get DePaula.
=====
DEPAULA!DEPAULA!DEPAULA!DEPAULA!DEPAULA!
SJ-
As you like to say.
Let’s just let it play out on the field.
Thanks for the evaluations of our pitching coaches.
I’m glad we have so many good ones, and sorry we lost the best one IYO.
“Let him work the kinks out in the NL and then the Yanks can sign him in 4 years…when he’s only 25.”
His is a six year deal.
“I think its significant that every big market team passed on Chapman. That surprised me.
That tells me that something more than just his radar gun readings are at play.”
sj44-
he might be generating velocity with mechanics that don’t work well with developing other pitches or with having command.
how a pitcher gets to 97-98 makes a difference.
Glad to see Jesus is going to catch today. I thought Romine looked pretty good last night. Someone on here said he had stiff hands, but I didnt get that impression off of yesterday’s game (yes, small sample size).
Nick needs to do some Ab exercises to strengthen that back and flatten that belly of his
Just to be clear, Nardi is the pitching coordinator. He oversees all minor league pitchers, but he’s not working with any one team on a day to day basis.
They do bring him in to “fix” pitchers when they hit a real rough patch, though.
how ridiculously LAME:
http://www.masslive.com/mywide.....video.html
Its not that I don’t like Nardi. Its that I think people think he is some guru based on the fact he likes to talk.
The Oakland A’s offered Gil Patterson a lot of money to become their organizational pitching coordinator.
In fact, Gil is making more money than Nardi is right now.
If the A’s thought so much of Nardi, why not hire him?
I’m not a big believer in guys at the lower levels who like to talk. All too often, they like hearing the sounds of their own voice instead of doing the job.
I think Nardi is ok. Not bad, not great. Ok.
He does a good job as long as you don’t have him become the pitching voice of the organization.
Which, the Yankees have done a good job of muzzling him in recent years.
Randy,
I was thinking back, when was the last time we saw a LH pitcher throw 95+ and still be able to keep him command for long stretches of time? Probably Randy Johnson.
It seems to me lefties need to dial it back and have quality secondary pitches in order to succeed.
You just don’t see too many lefties with command when they throw in the upper 90’s.
Chapman certainly isn’t a guy, at least at this point in his career, who has command when dialing it up into the upper 90’s.
“Just to be clear, Nardi is the pitching coordinator. He oversees all minor league pitchers, but he’s not working with any one team on a day to day basis.”
A glorified title for a pitching coach that is an organization’s pitching expert and troubleshooter.
Good morning, everyone. Hope Joba’s feeling better. NJ, too.
I saw the Raissman article last night, but didn’t deem it worth linking here.
But I think most of you are missing the point. The Yankees found out about the FBI/Alex through the newspaper.
But that’s the “Asset” for you.
Randy-
I think most teams didn’t want to risk the cost benefit on Chapman.
Many teams may have profiled him as a releiver rather than starter.
That certainly wouldn’t be worth the investment.
Obviously, there were differences of opinion on how long to the majors as well.
That too would have affected many decision makers.
All I was trying to say is that guys with his potential don’t come along very often.
There is lightning in that Left arm.
JMHO.
“So SJ doesn’t like Nardi as a pitching coach.”
crawdaddy-
for what it’s worth,my limited connections that used to be in the yankee tampa operation gave me the impression that contreras was a kiss a– which i guess is a kind of a self promoter.
this doesn’t mean he’s a not a useful pitching coach for young pitchers though, but it might indicate he’s risen higher than his ability would indicate.
Crawdaddy,
Agreed. But for those that didnt/don’t know the name, he’s not working with a particular MiL team for a full season.
“In fact, Gil is making more money than Nardi is right now.
If the A’s thought so much of Nardi, why not hire him?”
Because Nardi was already a pitching coordinator while Gil wasn’t at that time of the hiring.
Frank, but with the Reds, I believe Chapman would be going to AAA. The Yankees clearly thought he required more work at A or AA (in fact, I think Mark Newman told that to Chad on this blog).
Randy, I didn’t mean to give short shrift to velocity, but there are pitchers out there who throw hard who are just pretty awful. I suppose that means that they were blessed with an arm, but not much skill?
I don’t know anything about Scott Aldred – if he’s as good as SJ thinks, the Yanks need to find a way to keep him in the organization.
pretty solid lineups on both sides
“The enormity of the job – the biggest job in sports – could’ve swallowed Girardi whole.
“Joe had to be the guy to replace Joe Torre,” Brian Cashman said, “and I’m telling you right now, only the shortstop who will eventually replace Derek Jeter and the closer who will eventually replace Mariano Rivera will be able to relate to what [Girardi] went through.
“I pity the fool who replaces Derek, I pity the fool who replaces Mariano and you can pity the guy who replaced Torre. But Joe Girardi did a nearly impossible thing. He only needed two years to establish himself after Torre, and that’s almost a miracle. Joe did it by being a fighter.”
http://www.northjersey.com/spo.....rents.html
I’d really like to see Marcus Thames make the club out of ST. We don’t know what Nick Johnson is going to be like injury wise, especially early in the season where it has been freezing up here in NY during April. I think we need a professional hitter with some pop in that DH role. I’m not sure who gets eased out (Hoffman, Winn, Pena?) but I think we need another guy on the roster capable of DHing every day.
I think the Yankees are definitely going to feel the losses of Matsui and Damon. The names of Randy Winn, Nick Johnson and Jamie Hoffman inspire no confidence in me. Yes, the pitching was improved with the addition of Vazquez but the Yankees really screwed up by deleting those guys and Melky and not adding anyone of substance to the offensive lineup.
hey guys, I’ll be home watching the game. Do you want me to do play by play?
Pags&Rags March 5th, 2010 at 9:57 am
Yes, the pitching was improved with the addition of Vazquez but the Yankees really screwed up by deleting those guys and Melky and not adding anyone of substance to the offensive lineup.
————
I swear there was this 30 HR CF they traded for in the offseason…who was it again? It’s on the tip of my tongue…damn.
And I’m sure the Yankees are really lamenting losing two defensive liabilities on the wrong side of 35.
By the way, I wanted the Yankees to hire Gil as their pitching coach before Eiland.
Rishi,
Fantastic quote. Love the sly Mr. T connection there! To be fair, Girardi didn’t do it with the Marlins youth and payroll. But I love that Cashman’s giving Girardi his due. WS in his second season is terrific, as we know that championships are not a Yankee birthright as much as people want them to be!
Rishi
March 5th, 2010 at 9:56 am
“I pity the fool who replaces Derek, I pity the fool who replaces Mariano and you can pity the guy who replaced Torre.
***************************
Cash doing his best Mr. T
Ugh, I hate Elliott Johnson.
Chapman would have been worth it if he had a plus breaking pitch to go along with a plus fastball.
30M+ for a 22 year old with iffy command and shaky breaking pitches is too risky for me.
That 30M is 37 Vizcaino’s @ 800K each
Re: Nardi Contreras
Personally, I could care less if a guy shoots off his mouth as long as he can back it up with results.
Maybe I just dont know about Contreras’s failures but I sure have witnessed many of his successes.
For me, that’s putting your money where your mouth is.
By the way, I always like Muhammad Ali.
He talked the talk but also walked the walk.
And just so I don’t get any blowback on that.
No, I am NOT comparing Nardi with Ali.
When George basically retired, the Yankee Brass should have bounced Billy Connors on his butt and hired Gil Patterson in his place.
Rishi, do you have a link to the blurb you posted yesterday about AJ being pied? Thanks!
LOL Cash actually said that?
Henry Garces can hit 100 on the gun. Big deal. People really think fastball velocity in a spring training bullpen is the measure of a pitcher? Seriously?
Connors would’ve rolled over and landed on his stomach, tho.
Would rather have had Halladay than Chapman!
And for those of you who think Chapman has only one pitch.
All I can say is.
You’re wrong.
Watch video of the guy.
He may be unrefined but he has alot more than 1 pitch.
I apologize to everyone for creating such a firestorm of controversy on Chapman.
I will say no more about it.
Rishi
It always confounds me that many Red Sox fans seem more obsessed in their Yankee hatred than they do in in their Red Sox love.
What successes has Nardi had in the organization? I’m curious because its not like the Yankees have developed a lot of homegrown pitchers in the last 15 years.
Phil Hughes isn’t a Nardi success story. Phil was polished before he got into the organization and Dave Eiland has done more with Phil than any pitching coach in the organization.
Joba? Yes, Nardi tinkered with Joba’s mechanics and Scott Eldred refined them.
Perhaps I’m missing someone but I don’t see all these “success stories” coming out of the pitching side of the organization.
anyone want me to do play by play?
“i think most players don’t work hard enough on maximum velocity and if they have it lose it sooner than they need to.”
A number of people make the distinction between throwing mechanics and pitching mechanics.
And with a number of pitchers it’s the throwing mechanics and related physical condition that could use more work.
Learning how to throw the ball isn’t easy. It involves a very complex kinetic chain of events that ultimately connect and translates power generated through the legs, hips, and trunk all the way through the arm acting like a whip to the fingertips. Everything has to work in one coordinated chain of events to maximize velocity and do so safely.
For whatever reason, last year Joba lost that ability to create that coordinated, dynamic kinetic chain and his velocity plummeted back down to what it was in college.
MTU,
How experienced are you watching pitching video? Do you realize there is a difference between highlight videos and actual pitching videos?
Every team in baseball has watched Chapman. I know of no scout who has seen him to thinks he has another quality pitch, at least at this time, except his fastball.
His other pitches are short. In fact, very short, which is why there is so much disagreement among scouts and teams as to where his future role lies.
If he had more than one pitch right now, he would have been able to get 40+ million from a big market team and be on the cusp of being in their rotation.
benfica,
If you don’t mind. Unfortunately, I have to leave 1:30 EST for about an hour, so I’d love to read about what I missed. But don’t do it just for me.
Good to see you back. Valerie, too. And some others waking up from their hibernation.
“TINO Martinez, Tampa resident, works his first of six preseason Yankee YES telecasts today at 1 p.m. No sense, yet, whether he’ll be added to YES’s regulars as David Cone’s replacement.”
“I was thinking back, when was the last time we saw a LH pitcher throw 95+ and still be able to keep him command for long stretches of time? Probably Randy Johnson.”
sj44-
off the top of my head, i can’t think of anyone who has.
it’s obviously a rare ability.
lester last year would throw at times what seemed 95( on maybe a fast nesn gun) and would have command, but then he’d have zero command the next game.
as an aside on lester to the fangraph fans. i was just looking up lester’s avg velocity for last year and it said 89.2 mph. am i reading something wrong?
it also shows him throwing 92.3 % fastballs and 7.7% curveballs and nothing else.
again, am i missing something?
that just doesn’t seem to make sense.
that would be nice benfica, for those of us stuck at work
http://www.fangraphs.com/stats.....position=p
lester’s fangraphs page
randy l,
Then it’s no coincidence, then, that Lester had a “down” year.
sorry for posting the whole thing – the quote adn link are at the end
benfica356
March 5th, 2010 at 9:58 am
hey guys, I’ll be home watching the game. Do you want me to do play by play?
*********************
That would be great
Folks at NYYFans.com want to ride Eiland out on the rails for Joba and Phil’s supposed lack of progress. Phil has missed most of 2 seasons due to injuries; I don’t know what Eiland is supposed to do about that. He was fantastic out of the pen last year and showed some very promising things as a starter; it’s just been fate that has not allowed Phil to pitch consistently and develop in a straight line. That board is also pro-Joba and they blame everyone from Eiland to the man on the moon for Joba’s issues- so long as they don’t blame Joba. One dope wanted to set a time limit on how long these kids had to develop before Eiland is let go.
SJ, why is Aldred so highly regarded? What makes a good pitching coach?
Yankees taking BP. All appear to be wearing the proper shoes
3 minutes ago
SJ-
You know a lot more about the inner workings of the Yankees than I do.
If you think Nardi is overrated thats fine by me.
What I have heard is mostly hearsay, and we know how much that can be worth.
What I have heard some people say is that Nardi:
1) Is good at cleaning up pitcher’s mechanics which results in significant improvement sometimes.
2 examples who come to mind would be Joba, and Coke.
If I am incorrect about this that’s fine with me.
And again, if you think Nardi is overrated, you would be in a postion to know.
So, no big argument here.
And we’ll have agree to disagree on Eiland.
You like like him. I don’t.
That’s what makes the world go round.
Rishi, I’m sorry – what are you referring to?
Randy,
I think Fangraphs often mistakes cutters for fastballs.
Lester threw a lot of cutters last year. A cutter isn’t a “fastball”, as you know.
Yet, I’m sure if Fangraphs makes that distinction.
I think that’s why there is such a disparity in his pitching breakdown.
“as an aside on lester to the fangraph fans. i was just looking up lester’s avg velocity for last year and it said 89.2 mph. am i reading something wrong?”
That’s his cut fastball velocity. His average fastball velocity was 93.5. His velocity has gone up the past couple of years.
As an aside – there were only 3 pitchers in baseball to average 95 mph or over.
Averaging 95 is very difficult.
I’d bet not many people would guess who was the hardest thrower in baseball last year among starters. One of the most under rated pitcher in the game.
Betsy -Romine wasn’t built in a day
March 5th, 2010 at 10:03 am
Rishi, do you have a link to the blurb you posted yesterday about AJ being pied? Thanks!
LOL Cash actually said that?
==================
In response to this…
“benfica356 March 5th, 2010 at 9:58 am
hey guys, I’ll be home watching the game. Do you want me to do play by play?”
go for it
Sorry, had to delete the full article comment. Just can’t have full stories posted in here, especially if they’re behind a pay wall.
Betsy,
That website is full of overemotional fans who know next to nothing about the game.
Why be on Dave Eiland? What has he done wrong.
I love how folks who rip Eiland gloss over what he did with CC last year.
In-season, he made pretty radical changes, that CC gets credit for to try, in the hopes of making him more consistent.
He changed the grip on his two seamer, refined his change up, and told him to throw it more in games. Three things CC never did before.
He did it, and was dominant the second half of the year.
That seems like a big deal to me yet, Eiland gets no credit for it.
Hughes was great last year in the bullpen. Not good, great.
Cone and Eiland were the people who convinced Girardi to put Hughes in the pen. He gets no credit for that?
Its amazing how when some fans find a whipping boy, they lose all sense of reality and just pound on that whipping boy for no reason.
I think that’s what Eiland is to that website.
Also, by pitch f/x lester threw his fastball 57% of the time, curve 13%, cutter 13%, slider 9%, and change up 7%.
Pitch f/x makes mistakes obviously – cutters and sliders getting mixed up happens alot, as those two pitches are closely related. But that’s the data.
That’s a very impressive mix and balance of pitches. He did a terrific job of mixing his pitches last year and the development of his change really complemented his already terrific cut fastball.
He does a nice job burying the cutter/ slider to the back foot of righty hitters. He developed his change last year and that makes it even more difficult for righties to hit him as he developed a weapon to go away from righties.
SJ-
Again, on how experienced at watching video, I profess my novice status.
Never claimed otherwise.
However, with that in mind, I saw “raw” footage of Chapman from the WBC, and to my untrained eye. It looked like he had a slider as well.
If I’m wrong I’m wrong.
I don’t have a problem with that.
If I have given the impression here that I think I am an expert I now and forever humbly apologize.
All I was trying to do was to give my opinion.
If that was convincing great.
If not, fine.
“I’d bet not many people would guess who was the hardest thrower in baseball last year among starters. One of the most under rated pitcher in the game.”
Jiminez out in Colorado???
To me, I think Lester is one of the 5-6 best pitchers in the game.
I’d rather face Beckett than Lester. I love his game and the way he goes about attacking hitters.
He’s a stud.
YankeesWFAN Nick Johnson said he feels fine. Would have played if regular season. He’ll get an earful from Uncle Larry Bowa for wearing the wrong shoes. 4 minutes ago
SJ – their pitch information comes from PitchFX, and from what i read in their articles they go in and reclassify a lot of pitches manually before they show up on the site because some pitchers don’t get “detected” correctly(cutters showing as sliders, stuff like that).
YankeesWFAN Granderson will face lefty David Price today, but probably not more than once. Still way early but worth looking at his ABs vs. LHPs. about 1 minute ago
Rishi, thanks anyway. Was it a Buster Olney Insider piece?
SJ, yes- whipping boy is a good term. They get angry when they hear Joba talk about his tweaked mechanics as they blame the tweaks (for the most part) for his decline, both in effectiveness overall and in velocity.
As to CC, I can tell you that not only don’t they give credit to Eiland, but they actually use the veterans as proof that he doesn’t make anyone better. If you recall, walk totals of the SP were high last year and I believe the Ks were down – that ticks them off. LOL One guy in particular made a list of pitchers who he feels were let down by Eiland. This list includes Edward Ramirez, Phil Coke, etc…Fortunately, some fans have called him out on the ridiculousness of this list. You can not make a silk’s purse out of a sow’s ear; Eiland is expected to be a miracle worker with pitchers who aren’t all that talented.
Erin,
Why wouldn’t he be wearing hospital slippers? I kid, I kid.
What’s the story with the wrong shoes?
ok ill do play by play then
Carl Your comment is awaiting moderation. March 5th, 2010 at 10:35 am
Betsy – Romine wasn’t built in a day March 5th, 2010 at 8:18 am
CC looks awfully, um, fat in the gut here.
CC always had a gut. Ill link a picture from last spring.
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3.....162aa3.jpg
If you ask me, he looked bigger last spring.
Lester wasn’t even that well thought of in terms of ceiling – he was supposed to be a #3. So, these kids can develop awfully fast. The Sox gave him a chance. It’s unfortunate in a way that Joba and Phil came up at the same time (as opposed to a few years apart) because if forces the Yankees to choose which one to develop first as a starter. I can’t say I love how the Yankees have gone about developing either Phil or Joba (though, again, it’s hardly their fault Phil has been injured and missed huge chunks of time).
“Learning how to throw the ball isn’t easy. It involves a very complex kinetic chain of events that ultimately connect and translates power generated through the legs, hips, and trunk all the way through the arm acting like a whip to the fingertips. ”
CB-
this book changed my view on throwing.
http://williamcalvin.com/bk2/bk2ch4.htm
a couple of teasers:
“Maybe the sequencing lateralization is why language and right-handedness usually occupy the same left hemisphere. After all, what is handedness? It isn’t fine movement control that distinguishes the good hand from the other. It is the skill in ballistic movements such as hammering. And throwing.”
” … A faster throw requires more precise timing, bringing in each muscle at just the right instant with an orchestra conductor’s split-second timing. Neurons are notably noisy things and great precision is not their forte. But more are better. Heart cells in isolation will beat, but somewhat irregularly. Clump a few together, and they’ll exchange currents so as to all beat together–and the beat will be more regular. Forty cells linked together are even more rhythmic, ticking along like a clock. The timing precision depends on the square root of the number of cells, something called the Law of Large Numbers.
calvin wrote this a surprisingly long time ago in 1983. i first ran into it in the mid nineties.
but you’re right, throwing is a sequential ability.
the good news, according to calvin, throwing like language which is also sequential, is a skill hard wired into our DNA from eons of throwing as a hunting skill.
the hard wiring each individual has just needs to be accessed.
throwing is not pitching, but throwing well is a good start
m
March 5th, 2010 at 10:36 am
Erin,
Why wouldn’t he be wearing hospital slippers? I kid, I kid.
What’s the story with the wrong shoes?
**********************
LOL
I guess he was wearing the wrong shoes yesterday when he tweaked his back-I think he had his cleats on or something
Sorry, Betsy – it was
Carl, thanks! I never thought CC came into camp out of shape, but the pic was pretty bad. I guess he’s just a big dude who will always carry weight – which is fine as it works for him.
Tino Martinez is a lot of things, but a clear enunciator he is not. Unless he has taken some articulation lessons I would hate to have him in the booth.
JMO
Rishi, no need to apologize! I appreciate you posting the AJ part yesterday…I loved reading about that. Now, to get him pied on TV is the next step.
Betsy -Romine wasn’t built in a day March 5th, 2010 at 10:41 am
Carl, thanks! I never thought CC came into camp out of shape, but the pic was pretty bad. I guess he’s just a big dude who will always carry weight – which is fine as it works for him.
CC is Big sexy
“• Elliot Johnson is part of the traveling roster for the Rays. He’s the guy who slammed into Francisco Cervelli and broke his wrist two years ago.”
do you think he’s still “playing every game hard” and working for “respect for the Rays”?
“throwing is not pitching, but throwing well is a good start”
randy,
Part of what was so strange with Joba’s season last year was that he seemed to by trying to “pitch” more but in the process of doing so lost the ability to “throw” efficiently.
It was just so odd. It’s almost always the opposite with young pitchers. It’s as if he took the dictum to “pitch not throw” way too far – or at least tried to do it way too early in his career.
At times he seemed to approach the game as if he were Mussina and had that kind of skill set.
I bring up Joba because the disconnect between “throwing” and “pitching” was so large last season. One could argue that in certain ways he advanced as a pitcher but regressed as a thrower and the net effect was a significant negative.
thanks for the name Rishi, I knew it was a player on the Rays, but couldn’t remember who
pcaldera Ran into Gary Sheffield briefly at a Tampa restaurant last night. Was in very good spirits, and seemed content not to be playing. 26 seconds ago
m
He wore cleats on BP mat instead of the turf shoes that they usually do and he said a cleat caught in the turf mat and that’s how he tweaked his back.
“Tino Martinez is a lot of things, but a clear enunciator he is not. Unless he has taken some articulation lessons I would hate to have him in the booth.”
I’ll take an unclear enunciator who knows baseball over 1/2 the guys who are in a booth any day.
sj and cb-
thanks for the fangraphs explanations.
with a second look, it appears i was looking at the pitch types for lester as a hitter
anyway lester’s pitch types as a pitcher totally make sense:
http://www.fangraphs.com/stats.....position=P
avg fast ball at 93.6 mph
four pitches fastball , curve ball, cutter, and change.
as much as i hate to say it lester is one pitcher who i will stop what i’m doing to watch him pitch.
unfortunately, lester is really good.
trisha -
I love Tino, but I agree with you.
(There are far too many television commentators all over the place who have speech “issues,” and I really can’t understand it. I would think a requirement of the job would be to be able to enunciate and pronunciate clearly and accurately. It would also be nice if some of them would get some practice reading the teleprompter.)
It’s tough to say, but Lester is painful to watch as a yankee fan but a pleasure to watch from a pure baseball stand point.
His game has become so well rounded. He has no major defects. He’s tremendous. He’s a better pitcher now than Beckett has ever been. Watching him work to both left and right handed hitters is just remarkable.
I hope Hughes has the ability to evolve into what Lester has become.
I really don’t want to see CC lose his Warren Spahn Award to Lester but I fear that day may be coming.
I hope so, too, lol, but he won’t get that chance until he gets the chance to start consistently.
Lester is terrific, but I’m not conceding anything with CC. Now I feel CC is underrated……though how he remains so after his post-season last year is confusing to me.
I guarantee panic will set in by fans and the media if Granderson doesn’t hit Price…….who cares, for pete’s sake? It’s the 3rd game of the season……
I remember when A-Rod was terrible against Lester. This year he was a beast against him.
http://www.mlb.com/media/video.....id=6020569
http://www.mlb.com/media/video.....id=6851313
Can we get Igawa to pitch he can throw a pitch right at Elliot’s wrist.
“I bring up Joba because the disconnect between “throwing” and “pitching” was so large last season. One could argue that in certain ways he advanced as a pitcher but regressed as a thrower and the net effect was a significant negative.”
i agree totally about joba.
one of the lessons of that book i mentioned is that you have to TRY to throw as hard as you can to access throwing as hard as you can.
it seems weird that joba wouldn’t try to throw hard , but maybe he was so into pitching he forgot to” try hard” with velocity.
throwing hard is draining mentally if you are trying to throw at maximum velocity . it’s because throwing hard has to activate so much mental activity. it’s the ready , set, go neural machinery that has to accessed in the brain to throw hard.
for example, if i took someone who wanted to swing really fast in golf and hit a golf ball far, i would have them swing as fast as they could.
they would get mentally tired very quickly because it’s hard to focus that much to relax enough and still be coordinated sequentially to swing that fast. ironically throwing or swinging fast depends on being relaxed physically. the really hard work is mental focus.
very few people can focus that hard to go fast. it’s an uncomfortable thing to do. it’s work. it’s especially hard to do it for a long time.
this may be the big reason why eventually joba will be in the bullpen. he may simply not be able( or want ) to focus that much to throw that hard for a long period.
physical ability and mental ability( not IQ but mental ability to focus on a physical task) blend here where it’s hard to tell where one begins and the other ends.
So who will CC face on Opening Night? Beckett or Lester?
I’m watching that “30 Days-30 Clubs” show on MLB. Girardi’s on right now.
Is it me or did his braces seem to get bigger. He looks like Ol’ Dirty Bastard now.
Dirt McGirt
Big Baby Jesus
NOW HEAR THIS!
Now that ST is here I figured I would post what we have to date in terms of 2010 predictions. I will take them up until the end of ST.
If you are interested in getting on the predictions list, feel free to give me your prediction.
1. Please put my name in the post so that I don’t miss your prediction.
2. This is only for Yankee season wins. I will have other charts for things such as AL East/Central/West, NL East/Central/West team results (order, not numbers of wins).
Thanks.
http://members.cox.net/lsdorgan/2010%20SEASON.pdf
JohnC,
I don’t believe the Sox have announced their #1 yet. But I would bet it’ll be beckett…although it should be Lester.
I will also accept changes up to the end of ST.
Doreen, part of Tino’s problem is that he speaks at warp speed on top of not really articulating. It’s just not a good fit for the booth. I guess we’ll get to see today whether anyone has worked with him on either thing!
Erin & Pat,
Thanks.
JohnC,
It’ll be Beckett. He’s in his contract year. Making Lester your ace on top of bringing in Lackey? Wouldn’t be too smart if you’re trying to get a home-town discount from him.
What’s weird about watching Joba last year was him overthinking on everything. I think that lead to all the shaking off nonsense.
It was like he felt he had to show all his pitches to every hitter in each AB. As CB said, he was pitching like Moose.
I think that lead to his mechanics out of whack.
It also put him behind hitters, making him predictable and less effective.
Out of the bullpen, he was in attack mode. As a starter, he tried too hard to conserve energy and show his entire pitching reportoire, IMO.
What makes it odd is, he got to the majors as an attacking, aggressive starting pitcher.
I’m interested in seeing how Joba applies the lessons he learned last year to this year.
“one of the lessons of that book i mentioned is that you have to TRY to throw as hard as you can to access throwing as hard as you can.”
Agreed. One of the things that struck me last spring training was that Joba “intention to throw hard” was diminished. He just was not trying to throw as hard.
Initially, I thought that he was doing so as a concern over his shoulder injury. That he was trying to get hitters out without needign to throw as hard to decrease his risk of getting injured and to get through 150 innings.
But as the season went on the situation became more confusing.
His mechanics got so thrown off I don’t even think he could throw hard later on even if and when he intended to.
Power pitcher’s often have a narrative arc to their careers where they go from “throwers” to “pitchers.” It almost seems as if Joba attempted to rush that evolution before he was capable of doing so and in the process stopped focusing on maximizing this velocity – which was one of the key tools that had made him so successful since he was drafted.
Let’s hope he gets it back.
idk if ill be back in time to do play by play. I’m going out right now, srry
“Now that ST is here I figured I would post what we have to date in terms of 2010 predictions. ”
i predict that i will annoy trisha more than anyone else will.
though nick in sf will give me a run for my money
nick in sf has caused me to almost ruin my computer w/ coffee w/ some of his one liners ha
Nick is a riot. One of the funniest writers on the blog.
Pat M and I are planning to get together for the Futures Game in Anaheim this year if my nephew is selected. I’m hoping Nick will join us.
CountryClub
March 5th, 2010 at 11:24 am
JohnC,
I don’t believe the Sox have announced their #1 yet. But I would bet it’ll be beckett…although it should be Lester.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mark Buehrle will open for the Sox with Jake Peavy to follow.
joba is a very big variable with the yankees. he could go either way. he’s nowhere as bad , but he does seem to have some john daly in him.
he might have to have the setbacks from time to time to then have the incentive to kick himself in the butt to get it together again.
of course if he’s in the bullpen, it’s a lot easier to stay good.
i think watching joba this year will be one of the most interesting yankee stories.
it’s really up to him and how bad he wants it- starting that is.
sj44-
i was over at miami shores county club the other day and ran into a older guy named david gall. he’s the director of golf there, but he showed me photos of him as a kid lining up a putt for mantle with mickey grinning right over his shoulder. photos of dimaggio, berra, ford, martin etc . just priceless one of a kind photos.
i guess back in the day miami shores was quite the place .
RiverAveBlues Today in NYY History. 1973: Peterson and Kekich disclose their wife-swapping plans. The tale will soon be a movie with Affleck/Damon. about 1 minute ago
I don’t know if anyone caught it Trisha (guilty of skimming through the comments)
But, Charlie Stiener had the famous Boone call. Sterling was probably knawing on his wrist at the time.
What the A’s have first choice of pitching coordinators over the Yanks? I’m sure Gil is good, too, and I really like Aldred, but Nardi’s done a lot of good stuff and the minor league pitchers have a really weird habit of pitching lights out when he’s been visiting their clubs.
Meanwhile, I wonder if we start paying back the Devil Rays for all the cheapshots today.
As for DePaula, I have heard the Yanks prefer Matias a little, but like both and I hope they end up with both.
I’ll be looking forward to the Commentary on the young Guns.
Will love to know if the Nardi Chamberlain shows up at all.
I’m gonna have to miss it.
See you all later.
Enjoy the game.
Now I’m confused… so it’s ok to throw max velocity? I thought the idea was to not go max velocity, trying to throw the ball through the wall every time out. That’s what AJ’s tried not to do and he certainly has remained healthier.
Ick – I’m not a movie person anyway, but even if I was, that’s not a movie that interests me. The whole thing is unseemly….
BLOOD AND GUTS BASEBALL IS BACK!!
Did Nick say something hilarious here that I missed???
ARGH!!!! My job is ruining my life. I can’t play on LoHud like I want to
Brandon-
Did you watch the Kate Hudson movies?
Tell the truth- the baseball gods will know
erin-
just curious.
why do so few women make comments at RAB ?
it’s very much unlike lohud where the women are a force to reckon with
Good catch DB!
I think so Erica, pls don’t remind me.:(
Joe Madden hardcore ball begins in less than 1 hr.
randy l.
March 5th, 2010 at 12:11 pm
erin-
just curious.
why do so few women make comments at RAB ?
it’s very much unlike lohud where the women are a force to reckon with
*************************
LOL
I honestly have no idea-that’s a good question.
I hate playing the Rays in ST. Maddon won’t care if he hurts a Yankee and he’s undoubtedly still ticked off about CC “hitting” Pena. Once Phil and Joba are out of there, I would remove all the regulars……and Cervelli as well.
I don’t like RAB. Their content is ok, but I never read the threads – or, hardly ever.
My feelings on Joba….
If he is going to be a guy throwing 91-93 and trying to be a finesse kind of guy in an attempt to continue as a starting pitcher, its a waste. He won’t succeed as a pitcher throwing like that.
If he can get back to what he was in 2007-08, a guy with power stuff and the ability to pitch late into games, that’s a different deal.
If he can only go with that power for 50-60 pitches, he’s belongs in the bullpen and not in the starting rotation.
Its all up to Joba at this point.
At the risk of offending the regulars of other blogs, there’s a lot of testosterone flowing in the comment sections at other sites. Name calling & condescension. And the language is quite unlady-like. haha.
Lets go baby! get the vasaline and fist tape, spikes resharpened.
Wonder how many professional athletes applauded hearing this.
http://www.myfoxny.com/dpps/sp.....04_6396314
During the course of his career, I’d guess that Joba will likely get into several moderate to extremely contentious contract negotiations. Nearly all players do.
But Joba’s financial future is really on the line right now – not later on during those negotiations.
If he winds up in the bull pen there’s no way he’ll ever make up for that lost money. Even mediocre to good starters make more money that top notch closers.
Joba’s future is really in his own hands right now. Hopefully he stops over thinking things and starts throwing efficiently again.
For 2 months as a 23 year old he was one of the best starting pitchers in all of baseball. Hopefully he gets back to that form.
Amongst other things, he’s might have $100M riding on the outcome.
CB,
Ubaldo Jimenez aka one of the 7 best pitchers in the NL last year.
CB, for that matter, Phil probably feels the same way. He’s not the type to complain, but if he ends up in the pen, I can’t imagine that he won’t be disappointed. When does he become a FA? He’s going to want to start so he can live up to the talent he knows he has (and, I’m sure, for the $$ as well). If he won’t start for the Yankees, then he’ll start for some other team.
Joba had fire in his eyes for appearances during the postseason and attacked hitters. His fate may lie in the bullpen unless he learns how to pitch economically as a starter and trust his catchers.
Having a pitch count of close to 90 by the 5th inning just won’t cut it.
“I’d bet not many people would guess who was the hardest thrower in baseball last year among starters. One of the most under rated pitcher in the game.”
cb-
did i miss the answer to who it is.
who is he?
randy,
I just posted the answer
Patrick,
Nicely done.
Ubaldo Jimenez was just phenomenal last year. What an arm. He had a great season last year and not enough people were paying attention to what he was doing.
That was a great example of watching a young player turn potential into concrete performance.
In some ways Jimenez was the anti-Joba. Last year he really put it together and seemed to improve his throwing mechanics – he was not only throwing much harder than he did in the past, but also doing so with better command.
Yeah this blog suits all kinds of conversation.
If you want to talk about baseball, that’s great.
But if you want to talk about cookies, that’s OK too.
Speaking of cookies, Pat M, if you’re out there I saw this and thought about your current dilemma.
http://www.webmd.com/food-reci.....din_030110
CB,
Jimenez is a fun pitcher to watch, outstanding stuff.
I’m looking for Porcello to have a similar breakout this season as Jimenez did last year. I know that is unreasonably high expectations but Porcello is good.
“for that matter, Phil probably feels the same way.”
Betsy,
Phil Hughes is going to start. There is almost no chance he winds up in the bull pen long term. It’s a miniscule chance, even if he winds up in the pen for some period of time this year.
With Joba it’s different. If he winds up in the pen this year he might never get back into the rotation unless he’s traded.
There’s much more on the line for Joba than Phil.
“At the risk of offending the regulars of other blogs, there’s a lot of testosterone flowing in the comment sections at other sites. Name calling & condescension. And the language is quite unlady-like. haha.”
The regulars here are probably the ones who should be offended. I noticed in the thread at RAB yesterday about Johnson being scrathced that the Lohud commenters were the butt of several jokes. Ironically, the RAB commenters included a lady who used to be a regular here.
Betsy,
Its more a question of being who you are as a pitcher than coming out of the gate at max velocity, per se.
For example, my take on Joba is…..He would prefer to be a starting pitcher. He’s not opposed to the bullpen but, he would rather be a starter because financially its a better gig.
So, in an attempt to continue as a starter, I think he changed the way he pitched last year to his own detriment.
Started too slow, labored, tried to hard to stay in games by slowing everything down, etc.
In other words, he got away from what made him as good as he was.
To me, he has to go back to that kind of pitcher.
If that means he’s only a 40-60 pitch guy at that level at this point, then he goes to the bullpen.
If he can get back to being an 80-100 pitch guy at that level, which he was in 2007-2008, then he’s a starter.
I just don’t want to see him waste another year trying to pitch like Mike Mussina just to continue as a starting pitcher.
That’s a waste for Joba and the Yankees, IMO.
SJ44,
I agree, 100%. I think that is the only way Joba should stay in the rotation. If he is throwing 94-96 consistently as a starter, then yes, he’ll be a top-of-the-rotation type of guy. For whatever reason (injury? overthinking?), he was not that guy last year. It’s all up to him and I am curious to find out!
partick-
thanks.
see 96.1mph avg on fan graphs
yowza
Pitching like Mike Mussina is only worth like 270 or so wins. Joba just needs health. That shoulder thing set him back. Watch him go.
Love me some Ubaldo. I got him in my keeper auction league for $1. Huuuuuge talent.
CB, that’s true. Wouldn’t you think a pitcher would be motivated to do well just because of professional pride instead of needing this type of kick in the pants?
Hi. From. St. At game
“I’m looking for Porcello to have a similar breakout this season as Jimenez did last year. I know that is unreasonably high expectations but Porcello is good.”
One of the major reasons why Jimenez took off was because he was able to improve his control considerably last year.
That’s a very common hurdle young pitchers who blossom into stars have to cross. Lester did that two years ago.
It’s unlikely Porcello will be able to make that specific jump in performance because his command and control were already terrific.
It’s hard to know what Porcello’s rate of growth, pattern of growth or upside are. In certain ways he already pitches like a mature pitcher.
The thing I’m concerned with him about this year is how his arm will hold up. He threw a ton of innings last year and did so at a very young age with little build up of his arm. I don’t think he threw that many pitches per innings as he had good command and generated a lot of ground balls. But he did throw a lot last year.
The guy I think is poised for a major breakout this year is Clayton Kershaw. If he’s able to harness his command the way Jimenez did last year, Kershaw becomes one of the top 5 pitchers in the NL.
IMO, comments sections on blogs fall into 4 catagories:
1. Trolls. Every blog has them and because of the emphasis on page views, most seem uninterested in doing anything about it.
2. Emotional wrecks. These folks use blogs as their shrinks. They post hysterical, emotional rantings, especially in game threads when the Yankees are losing 1-0 in the first inning, and that’s their form of release.
I guess its good they aren’t hurting others but, it makes for boring reads.
3. Intelligent posters. Posters you look forward to reading because they are interesting and entertaining.
4. Community posters. These are folks who use the blog more as a sports social network. They create online and sometimes offline friendships, and are enjoyable to interact with on the blog.
When the first two catagories take over a blog, its Jump The Shark time for that blog.
When the last two catagories dominate a blog, its a very enjoyable place to hang out.
That’s why some of us work OT to make sure the last two catagories stay prevelent on this blog.
uncle ellsworth
March 5th, 2010 at 12:46 pm
Hi. From. St. At game
***********************
Hi Uncle E! I’m jealous
God I hope Golson finds his bat.
I dont understand why Joba had to change his delivery and pace himself. If i can recall, he was throwing 97/98 late in games in the minors. Why fix something that isnt broken? Unless he became gun shy after the shoulder injury and that caused the decrease in velocity.
Didnt Hughes have to tweek his delivery after he hurt his leg?
20 bucks saids David Price nails one of us w/ a WP.
That’s not true Phil.
Pitching like Mike Mussina was worth 270 wins to Mike Mussina.
Pitching like Mike Mussina last year turned Joba into a 4 inning, ineffective starting pitcher. That’s not going to get him 27 wins, let alone 270 in his career.
He’s a power pitcher. If he can’t be a power pitcher as a starter, then he needs to be one in the bullpen.
He’s not going to be an effective starting pitcher at the major league trying to finesse hitters. We saw that last year.
“He would prefer to be a starting pitcher. He’s not opposed to the bullpen but, he would rather be a starter because financially its a better gig.
So, in an attempt to continue as a starter, I think he changed the way he pitched last year to his own detriment.”
That’s my general impression as well. I think he over intellectualized what he needed to do.
It was as if he had an idea of what a starting pitcher was supposed to do in the big leagues and tried to follow that idea rather than follow where his talent lies.
I think he wound up changing the way he throws to conform to an idea of what a starting pitcher needs to do.
But he was already a successful starting pitcher. He had mild tendinitis at the end of the season. Lot’s of pitchers do. That’s no reason to change your mode of attack.
But I think even this winter Joba was talking about how major league hitters are too good to pitch one way. You have to given them different looks each time through the order.
That’s technically or at least generally true. But it’s really not true if you’re able to throw 96-98 with good command and a plus breaking pitch – which is what he demonstrated as a starter in 2008. That comment concerned me some.
SJ, you’re saying that some guys need to go max effort to achieve their best results? That for some guys, going all out all the time isn’t necessarily a bad thing? If so, that seems rather unusual, but then I believe that whatever comes naturally to someone is what will be best for them. I guess AJ was one of those who physically is not able to go max all the time, but then he may have been an odd case. He was literally trying to throw the ball 100 MPH even though he would hit 95/96 easily without trying too hard.
Brandon:
I agree about Golson. If his bat ever comes around, we could have quite a steal. He can flat out fly, and is a good defensive outfielder with an above average arm. Just hope he’s not another Freddy Guzman.
Phil,
The problem is that Joba was trying to almost pitch like Mussina circa 2008 – not Mussina circa 1998.
Joba was a power pitcher in 2008. In 2009 he seemed to distrust his fastball, especially with two strikes on a hitter or in big spots.
At his best, Mussina always threw off his fastball. That was his key pitch. Last year Joba seemed to be pitching off of his slider and secondary pitches.
Mussina pitched like Mussina because he couldn’t pitch like Joba.
Second half Joba did resemble Mussina. Circa 2007.
I hope we see Joba get back to form. It’ll solve some mysteries at least.
SJ,
“1. Trolls. Every blog has them and because of the emphasis on page views, most seem uninterested in doing anything about it.”
You forgot impersonators.
“2. Emotional wrecks. These folks use blogs as their shrinks. They post hysterical, emotional rantings, especially in game threads when the Yankees are losing 1-0 in the first inning, and that’s their form of release.”
I believe it should read TOP OF THE FIRST INNING.
“3. Intelligent posters. Posters you look forward to reading because they are interesting and entertaining.
4. Community posters. These are folks who use the blog more as a sports social network. They create online and sometimes offline friendships, and are enjoyable to interact with on the blog.”
Im confused on this one. I cant figure out what category i fit into? Entertaining is 3 and Sports social network is 4?
Could we add a 5? Entertaining, annoying at times, sports and personal social network?
“That’s why some of us work OT to make sure the last two catagories stay prevelent on this blog.”
I think Lohud should reimburse some of us for working overtime in here and not getting paid at work.
“The regulars here are probably the ones who should be offended. I noticed in the thread at RAB yesterday about Johnson being scrathced that the Lohud commenters were the butt of several jokes.”
tos-
why should regulars here be offended?
i looked at yesterday’s RAB thread and didn’t see anything.
I’m just saying that if you’re gonna talk about things Joba shouldn’t do, Mike Mussina’s name shouldn’t come up. But obviously, he needs to be about power and filth and not finesse and guile. He needs to focus and work and keep his mechanics. That’s all. I think the shoulder robbed him of some velo last year.
Lets do it Phil!
BryanHoch John Sterling just made an appearance in the press box. Well, you can’t predict spring training. 2 minutes ago
I wonder if part of Chamberlain’s problems, aside from thinking he knows more than the catchers, is that he starts trying to pace himself too soon….like from the first pitch forward. Conserving so much energy that he starts throwing too many early pitches and blows the conservation idea out the window. I always thought that the idea was to first establish the fastball early and then work everything around that.
uncle ellsworth
March 5th, 2010 at 12:46 pm
Hi. From. St. At game
========
Dammit U.E.!! Can you save some of that magic for the regular season. We will need you to go to a handfull of games this year to start a winning streak as you did last year. Get out now!! You must have not gotten the memo. Its pre-season. Let the Rays wear their preseason t-shirts. Thats their what they play for. We have bigger fish to fry.
randy l,
After the news that Nick was scratched. Someone said, “just for fun should I go see what’s they’re saying at LoHud?”
And they were going back and forth about the chicken little vibe.
To be fair, LOHUD has a strong chicken little vibe.
So I guess today will serve as the prologue/chapter 1 in this 5th starter competition.
Each guy has 6 starts to make his case. And as much as the results and their pitching lines don’t count for everything, you can’t dismiss them.
Here we go!
“I wonder if part of Chamberlain’s problems, aside from thinking he knows more than the catchers, is that he starts trying to pace himself too soon….like from the first pitch forward.”
GB7,
I completely agree. That’s what he seemed to be doing. It very well might be with all of the ridiculous attention and focus about him being a relief pitcher made him veer off in the other direction too much. It made him think about lasting 7-8 innings so much that he tried to “plan” to do so from the first pitch.
Look at my boy Jete!
Bartlett almost took hughes deep down the line 2nd pitch
Jerkface,
Totally! (myself not included-lol)
So i read who the flame throwing of last year was. You guys didnt finish the conversation.
Whos the lolly pop throwing of last year?
Pedro?
Wakefield?
JackCurry1 Cashman said Hughes v Joba is “open competition.” But he also admitted there are always “preconceived notions.” He wouldn’t disclose those. about 1 minute ago
I wonder if he’s going to throw the change- and how often? Hopefully he’ll break a one or two off…
anyone have the gameday link?
Girardi brought Hughes and Joba into his office and asked Joba to pick a number 1-1000 to determine who starts first.
Joba picked 52.
Girardi said, Dude 1 to 1000?!
Joba stayed with 52.
Hughes picked 53 and won.
Also HR
Hughes hangs an inside pitch to Bartlett and he just missed the foul pole in left. Next pitch, a hot smash to Jeter, who snags the smash, does a 360 pirouette and gets Bartlett at first.
3 homers in 4 ab’s…woah
Boo, darn – a HR. Not a great start.
Wind blown HR. An out in YS.
Welcome to the Spring and why results don’t matter.
Let’s not count foul HRs…
no cable due to accident
Anyone have a link to follow the game?
why should regulars here be offended?
i looked at yesterday’s RAB thread and didn’t see anything.
*****************************
http://riveraveblues.com/2010/...../#comments
It’s not a big deal, but this is the thread I was referring to. The comments about Lohud posters begin…
Salty Buggah says:
March 4th, 2010 at 1:35 pm
Do I dare check LoHud for fun? Or will it be so bad that I’ll go into a coma immediately?
Reply
Rebecca-Optimist Prime (Optimovelist Primus) says:
March 4th, 2010 at 1:36 pm
Do it and tell us what you find.
is the main reason why there is so much wind is because of the lack of a triple deck stadium?
Swing and a miss on a change up!
Prettychange up and Zobrist wasn’t close
How’s Phil’s FB command? Welcome to competition, where every single pitch counts, even in ST.
that change will be a huge pitch.
How’s Phil’s FB command? Welcome to competition, where every single pitch counts, even in ST.
–
YES gun isn’t reliable, so I cant say on velocity, but he looks a little off. Hung a curve, dropped one in the dirt. Fastballs missing location up a bit.
Well 3 hard outs and a HR.
Maybe he should have tossed that change to Rodriguez.
Excellent changeup to Zobrist. Even doubled up on it which is nice to see.
Nice……I don’t care if Phil gives up 5 runs if he’s making progress with his change, his FB command is good and he’s throwing nice and easy.
Hughes just threw a wonderful change up to Zobrist. Terrific pitch. Kept his arm speed constant, good differential in velocity and nice downward action.
Zobrist was out in front and fooled on the pitch as he swung weakly over it.
That’s the story of the first inning for the yankees. Everything else is secondary. Phil is just up in the zone some. It’s to be expected in his first spring game.
Betsy -Romine wasn’t built in a day March 5th, 2010 at 1:12 pm
How’s Phil’s FB command? Welcome to competition, where every single pitch counts, even in ST.
Not good. Kinda like CC.
Ken Singleton was saying there are many similarities between Jeter and Bartlett….
The only similarities that I can see are they are both starting SS in the AL East.
Cashman said Hughes v Joba is “open competition.” But he also admitted there are always “preconceived notions.” He wouldn’t disclose those.
10 minutes ago
Jerkface, thanks! Hardly a surprise – the command will come. SJ, what does it mean to double up on a change?
Jim Pir – one
March 5th, 2010 at 1:15 pm
Ken Singleton was saying there are many similarities between Jeter and Bartlett….
The only similarities that I can see are they are both starting SS in the AL East.
***********************
LOL
Betsy -Romine wasn’t built in a day March 5th, 2010 at 1:15 pm
Jerkface, thanks! Hardly a surprise – the command will come. SJ, what does it mean to double up on a change?
back to back change ups!
Bartlett put up: .320 .389 .490 .879 that last season, which would be one of Jeters better seasons.
High average short stop with power who gets on base. I think comparing him to jeter is fine
Jeter gets lucky with a line drive single to right. They weren’t within 25 feet of the ball.
Gameday link
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/201.....tampa-bay/
Jeter – swings at the first pitch he sees and singles between the first baseman and second.
Like last season never ended! Jeter swung early so often last year with very good results.
Double up means throw 2 in a row.
Is Tino going to be apart of regular season broadcasts?
Hopefully, he will!
Don’t even look at gun readings until the third start.
Right now, guys are building arm strength. The last thing you want is for them to overthrow.
Right now, it’s about refining your mechanics and working on your secondary pitches.
Carl, any resemblance to CC by Phil would be ok with me, lol. I’m trying to fight my first inclination to “worry” because of the competition. It’s also ST and I know that Phil could have a 0.00 ERA and it wouldn’t mean a thing. A part of me almost doesn’t want his command to be perfect right away because then it can only get worse…….I know, it makes no sense, lol.
Price throwing hard. Hughes not so much.
Nice rip by granderson vs a hard lefty, fouled it straight back
High fly to left by Granderson, but, he hung in well against Price.
Thanks, guys! The more Phil throws that change, the more he will be comfortable with it. I really believe he’s going to end up with a good change. I’m also eager to see him throw his curve (my favorite pitch) as he sort of lost his way with it late last year.
So for those stuck at work, how’s Tino looking today?
It appears not many here give a rat’s patootie what happens at RAB. However, I guess it’s flattering that they keep tabs on us.
Rock on RAB!
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If you want to know about just about any player on any team, I’m the one to ask. DB can attest that I probably set the record for making the most changes in the history of Fantasy Baseball! However, I really got to know players around the league and got to care about their success.
Bartlett is one hell of a player.
While the Yes gun is notably unreliable, it does show Price at 95 and Hughes between 88-91. I understand it is early, but the knock on Hughes as a starter is he loses his plus fastball.
An effective change would make Phil ridiculous. Looking forward to good results from him this year.
Andy Pettitte on wfan
“Is Tino going to be apart of regular season broadcasts?
Hopefully, he will!”
Hopefully not, he’s better off scouting & teaching for our system.
Yes, he’s throwing “hard” if 85 is considered hard. That’s what 2 of his fastballs were to Tex.
Way too early to be worried about velocity.
NYY626,
They’re not showing him, but I’m picturing lots of spit flying when he talks.
The two short stops for the AL last year in the all star game?
Derek Jeter and Jason Bartlett.
Only two shortstops to hit .320 or over in the AL last year?
Derek Jeter and Jason Barlett.
Only two shortstopes in the AL last year to have over an .850 OPS?
Derek Jeter and Jason Bartlett.
Only two shortstops in the AL last year to have over an .380 wOBA?
Derek Jeter and Jason Bartlett.
“The only similarities that I can see are they are both starting SS in the AL East.”
Bartlett had a pretty Jeterrific year in 2009, but he’s 30 years old and that would seem to be the exception rather than the rule for him. He’s a steady defensive SS. I do know Maddon called Bartlett the team’s MVP in 2008, when he hit only one homer with 37 RBI, which leads me to believe that Maddon is a believer in whatever intangibles Bartlett brings to the table.
NYY626
March 5th, 2010 at 1:20 pm
So for those stuck at work, how’s Tino looking today?
**************************
Yes, I am very interested in this as well.
Play Ball ! Sunny and cool in Tampa. Hughes gave up a homer. To center top of the first. Melky would have had it (jk) weak wifi signal. More later.
Tino’s awesome!
The ladies are going crazy for Rod
Anyone know the date of MLB Opening Day? I need to activate my DirecTV account and also Extra Innings but see no need to do it ’til Opening Day since Verizon gives me the coverage I need through MLB.
Thanks.
but the knock on Hughes as a starter is he loses his plus fastball.
–
Hughes greatest asset as a starter is his plus fastball. This is nonsense. If Hughes loses his fastball velocity as a starter its not something that ever showed in the minor leagues where he cut everyone to pieces with his fastball at 91-94 with life and his curve.
Looks like the kid DePaula has signed with the Mariners. He threw a simulated game today which clinched the deal. According to Jose Arangue on twitter, M’s people had security people at the gate to make sure no Yankee people got near him.
I think I read that Tino’s signed up to do 40 games.
Sure he’s the quickest talkin Floridian since Tony Montana but it’s Tino.
Trisha:
Opening night is Easter Sunday, Apr. 4, in Boston.
Well, that all sounds great. But Bartlett had one Jeterian year. Just one.
Jeter has had countless Jeterian years, with 5 World Series rings.
Bartlett is a nice player, he’s just not comparable to Jeter.
Wide pitch come on
Umpires in mid season form
that glove moved, looked outside, but nice AB for ST gm.2
Marty Foster is in mid season form. He blows a 3rd strike call to Rodriguez,
Austinmac, I’m not sure what you mean? Phil has a very good FB – he doesn’t need to throw 97 MPH to be effective. He had a terrific FB as a starter last year, throwing I believe between 92-94. He also had a great K to BB ratio, so he got swings and misses. If he’s to be a starter, the Yankees need to let him go past his 5 innings even if it means he takes his lumps a bit. They can not keep taking him out of games whenever he hits a rough stretch or if he reaches some pitch limit.
ST for the umpires too. That pitch was well outside.
SJ
From what I saw Price was consistently 95-97 that inning…
He was throwing REAL hard that inning.
“Bartlett put up: .320 .389 .490 .879 that last season, which would be one of Jeters better seasons.
High average short stop with power who gets on base. I think comparing him to jeter is fine”
.297 .396 .637 1.034 That is Brady Anderson’s line from 1996 which is one of Mickey Mantle’s better seasons thus I think comparing Anderson to Mantle is just fine.
By the way, that was completely sarcastic but I think you can you see what it looks like when you cherry pick one season in order to compare two players. Call me when Bartlett is doing that consistently from 10 years.
I had Drew Bailey on my fantasy team. GREAT reliever. (That’s for anyone watching television…)
JohnC, if that’s true the Yankees need to fire some latin scouts, they are passing on too many high end latin arms.
On July 6, 2009 controversy erupted after Foster called out New York Yankee shortstop Derek Jeter on an attempted steal of third base. Though Jeter’s account of the incident suggested that Foster had knowingly called Jeter out without the presence of the required tag, this assertion was contradicted by Foster and Major League Baseball. According to Jeter, Foster allegedly stated: “You don’t have to be tagged out, if the ball beats you, you’re out” which would be an incorrect statement of the rules of baseball. The controversy later dissipated without resolution.
On September 14, 2009, Foster was again embroiled in controversy after calling out Yankee Alex Rodriguez. Rodriguez and Yankee’s manager Joe Girardi were later ejected, though the reasons for the ejection given by Foster are disputed by Rodriguez.
Well, that all sounds great. But Bartlett had one Jeterian year. Just one.
Jeter has had countless Jeterian years, with 5 World Series rings.
Bartlett is a nice player, he’s just not comparable to Jeter.
–
You’re being purposely obtuse. There are similarities between the players. Especially if you are looking at Bartlett in 2009 vs Jeter.
Jeteriffic
LOL
THAT Marty Foster?
haha. Surprised he didn’t find a way to call Jeter out.
Too bad about DePaula. I’m staying far away from the minor league thread on NYYFans.com, lol.
Anyone read Dan Perry’s crap yesterday?
Four reasons the Yanks are vulenerable.
1. Run differential should have put their record at 95-67.
2. Age of the team. Oldest hitters in the a.l..(im shocked at this one. I thought we got younger last year?)
3. Brutal division
4. Best team in the regular season rarely wins the Series.
Let the hating begin.
Price throwing harder than Phil because….maybe he throws harder than Phil?
John C – thanks!
Two things on that Tampa team that I’m checking are the bats of Bartlett and Zobrist.
The scouts don’t make money decisions. They watch players, write reports, and leave the signing decisions to management.
Initial thoughts, Hughes is better off in the BP. *Not 100 % convinced, just my initial thoughts*
m
March 5th, 2010 at 1:29 pm
Price throwing harder than Phil because….maybe he throws harder than Phil?
***********************
LOL Nice.
Nice play by Cano!
Also usually everyone’s velocity is lower at the start of spring training. You build up arm strength
Betsy–Ninety-two to ninety-four would be great. What is not going to work, in my opinion, is 88-89. That did occur with some frequency in his Yankee starts the last two years. In the pen, he was at 93-95. I attribute his bullpen success to that difference.
“Too bad about DePaula. I’m staying far away from the minor league thread on NYYFans.com, lol.”
Betsy,
A good idea as the overreaction has already started there.
Sean Rodriguez can flat out hit. Will be interesting to see where he ends up.
Joba next
“Initial thoughts, Hughes is better off in the BP”
“Too bad about DePaula. I’m staying far away from the minor league thread on NYYFans.com, lol.”
I don’t get how they are letting these arms land everywhere else, King Felix, Inoa, Chapman, now DePaula, just keep handing out ace arms.
Dispite the walk, Hughes looked very good in his 2nd inning. Everybody looked off balance on his pitches.
Despite the walk, Hughes looked very good in his 2nd inning. Everybody looked off balance on his pitches.
Hughes seems fine to me. Threw about 8 changeups in 2 innings and had nice arm action on all of them.
Especially impressive since it’s his first outing.
Mo is about to be on wfan
“I don’t get how they are letting these arms land everywhere else, King Felix, Inoa, Chapman, now DePaula, just keep handing out ace arms.”
When they all turn out to be aces besides King Felix then I’ll agree with you.
Austin, Phil doesn’t throw 88-91; he’s not a soft tosser.
Hughes looked like he settled down after the first inning. Good to seem him following to the changeup mandate.
Long opposite field foul by Posada.
But, then strikes out
“GreenBeret7 March 5th, 2010 at 1:30 pm
Two things on that Tampa team that I’m checking are the bats of Bartlett and Zobrist.”
the ball really jumped off Zobrist’s bat last season, he had a one month stretch where he was ridiculous
Hughes fastball averaged 92.2 MPH as a starter in 2009, and he managed a really nice 7.2% whiff rate
Craw,
Exactly. Too much handwringing over guys 5+ years away from the majors.
Inoa has already had surgery.
Not a good start for an ace.
Jim Pir – one
March 5th, 2010 at 1:31 pm
Nice play by Cano!
*********************
Awesome
I hate being stuck at work today
Carl
March 5th, 2010 at 1:22 pm
Andy Pettitte on wfan
____________________________________________________________
Ooo did he say anything worth mentioning?
Joba averaged 92.5 and only had a 3% whiff rate
Jorge is still my guy for the 5 hole.
Glad to see Phil throwing the change and having some success; unlike in years past, he seems comfortable and happy with it.
Austin, we usually agree, but not this time.
Craw, I don’t understand it myself – it’s just $$$. The Yankees need to take risks like this. Is it Hal? Is it their scouting? I’m avoiding that place because as you know, I think some people there honestly hate the Yankees. They hate Cash, they hate Eiland – in essence, nothing the Yankees do is right. I am bummed, though and somewhat concerned.
NYY626 March 5th, 2010 at 1:38 pm
Carl
March 5th, 2010 at 1:22 pm
Andy Pettitte on wfan
____________________________________________________________
Ooo did he say anything worth mentioning?
Naw the usual. Hes feeling good. Near the end. Great year last year.
Tough start for Reyes and the Mets. Doctors have discovered that Reyes has a thyroid imbalance.
Betsy-Hughes has thrown 88-89 all day. Okay, it’s spring training. According to fangraphs, in 2007 his average fastball was 91.4 and in 2008 it was 91.0. Last year, mostly as a reliever his fastball averaged 93.6. That is a huge difference.
wow had no idea swish was batting
Cano w/ that smooth swing
Betsy-Hughes has thrown 88-89 all day. Okay, it’s spring training. According to fangraphs, in 2007 his average fastball was 91.4 and in 2008 it was 91.0. Last year, mostly as a reliever his fastball averaged 93.6. That is a huge difference.
–
Injury plagued in 2007 and 2008. 2009 as a starter he averaged 92 mph. Which is not a whole lot different from 93.6. Hughes as a starter is 91-94 and can touch 95.
Chapman is a completely different story. The Yankees obviously liked him, but they weren’t going to promise the kid that they were going to rush him to the majors when clearly they thought he was a few years away.
Mo is a sage – he’s just freaking wise.
So overall, Phil had a good outing. The HR seems to have been windblown. Hard hit balls? That’s going to happen to everyone. I’m sure his FB command will come….
Tomorrow is AJ’s turn to break out his change.
Craw, if you remember Yankguy was always convinced that Robby had the skills of an average fielder at best. These observant eyes knew better from jump street. On the other hand, I think Yankguy ended up listening to more games than he got to watch. Not the best way to judge skils.
“GreenBeret7 March 5th, 2010 at 1:30 pm
Two things on that Tampa team that I’m checking are the bats of Bartlett and Zobrist.”
Do not forget to check for the syringes too. Or David Ortiz’ phone number.
If you guys wanna check out someone who looked real sharp this afternoon, look at Lester..
4-0 Twins, end of 1.
Carl
March 5th, 2010 at 1:40 pm
NYY626 March 5th, 2010 at 1:38 pm
Carl
March 5th, 2010 at 1:22 pm
Andy Pettitte on wfan
____________________________________________________________
Ooo did he say anything worth mentioning?
Naw the usual. Hes feeling good. Near the end. Great year last year.
____________________________________________________________
Near the end? Not if I have anything to say about it! Seriously though I really hope he stays healthy and repeats his 09 performance.
Swish looks in great shape. He used to be able to swipe a few bases. At the least he should be more mobile and maybe better defensively this year.
What is there to be worried about? They can’t sign everybody.
The franchise isn’t going to go under because they didn’t sign some 17 year old kid Internet scouts have labeled can’t miss.
You can’t sign them all and pitchers all come with risk. Especially at that age.
http://pitchfx.texasleaguers.com/
Here is a good tool where you can query pitch FX for date ranges, pitch type, count, and more.
Austin, are you really worried about Phil’s velocity now? I have no idea what fangraphs said, but I know what I saw with him as a starter last year. Even if he was hitting only 91, who cares? He got a ton of swings and misses, so clearly he’s got good stuff even without throwing 98 MPH.
Jerkface–Does fangraphs or some other site differentiate between starting and relieving on things such as velocity?
Funny: Joba threw his slider 50% of the time on 3-2.
62% of the time he threw some kind of breaking off speed pitch
“Tough start for Reyes and the Mets. Doctors have discovered that Reyes has a thyroid imbalance.”
Reyes better hope that it’s underactive rather than overactive…
Betsy,
I have no idea why the Yankees make certain decisions about those international prospects. With that said, I can’t get too excited right now about not signing some 17 year old pitcher that I wouldn’t know from Adam. The Yankees just won a WS and spring training has just begun so forgive me from not getting feeling the negative vibes certain Yankee fans seem to feel, whenever, things don’t go their way with the Yankees.
Betsy,
I have no idea why the Yankees make certain decisions about those international prospects. With that said, I can’t get too excited right now about not signing some 17 year old pitcher that I wouldn’t know from Adam. The Yankees just won a WS and spring training has just begun so forgive me from not getting feeling the negative vibes certain Yankee fans seem to feel, whenever, things don’t go their way with the Yankees.
When a guy like Bartlett who was a singles hitter, hits a 430 foot opposite field homer and a tri[le off of the center field wall in Florida in one game, that’s not normal. He had 11 career homers in 5 seasons until last year. Zobrist had about 20 in 5 years.
Betsy, read above. Hughes fastball was comparable to Jobas and was actually better at getting swings and misses in 2009 as a starter.
Price looked like the same guy as last year. Eventually he will be a stud starter, but didn’t look great today. It’s odd though. As good as he is you would figure he was a guy to see instant success as a starter.
Swisher-ball
Nick still a nightmare on the bases. LOL
Some heads-up ball by dem Rays!
Jocketty was prepared to give Chapman a lot more bank than they gave him. He’s going to try and do whatever it takes to try and stick it to the Cards.
I hope Swisher is ok, he looked like he might have been injured on that play.
# trisha – OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! March 5th, 2010 at 1:46 pm
“Tough start for Reyes and the Mets. Doctors have discovered that Reyes has a thyroid imbalance.”
Reyes better hope that it’s underactive rather than overactive…
*******
exactly how bad is a thyroid imbalance?
If Joba doesn’t look good today, some folks are going to panic.
If Joba looks REAL good today, some OTHER folks are going to panic…
md
Swish is flexing his wrist.
Not many people other than minor leaguers and Manny Ramirez are stupid enough to be shoving stuff into their systems. I still think they are using loaded bats. The sound is a little hollow when the bat hits the ball.
i’ll bet nick is a fun guy to have a beer with after games in spring training.
not that he doesn’t take it serious when he knows he has a job.
but just saying.
Swish is a lousy baserunner – oh boy; I hope he’s ok.
And Joba walks the first guy he sees.
Not this stuff again.
Bartlett with an RBI triple. Joba throwing 88-90
Oh great – thanks, Mo, lol. Mo just gave Mike exactly what he wanted by saying that, if he was the owner, he’d be his 8th inning guy. I worship Mo, but I would prefer the players not to answer this question as it makes it look like they are questioning Cashman and company.
“Tough start for Reyes and the Mets. Doctors have discovered that Reyes has a thyroid imbalance.”
It could be Grave’s disease which would be his own immune system attacking his thyroid.
A triple and a RBI.
It’s just Joba’s first ST appearance. No need for panic.
Mo says Joba should be an 8th inning guy.
Mariano tells Mike Joba should be in the pen
Joba just shook the catcher off twice…
…in the first spring training game.
Joba is getting tee’d off
Back to back trips
That one was smoked!
Cisco whoop his ass.
Joba getting wrecked. Let the panic posting begin.
So either the YES gun is off (very possible as they had issues last year plus – was Price really throwing 97 so early?) or the kids are simply not built up to their normal velocity – which is fine. I doubt CC threw 95 yesterday.
Fastballs up in the zone again.
I can only imagine the Joba panic now! LOL
For those of you keeping score at home, that would be Hughes – 1, Joba – 0.
Nice to see/hear that Phil was throwing that changeup. Keep on working at it Phil.
Hope Swish is alright
Yikes Joba. Oh well, it’s just the beginning!
Joba’s mechanics look all over the place. Ah well, the early Spring Training games. Velocities should be down and without the work they look rusty.
His mechanics are clunky.
Joba will never learn.
CB, are you kidding? He shook of Cervelli in a ST game? Now, maybe Joba is feeling the effects of his brief illness, so I will cut him some slack as to his results. I don’t mind a pitcher shaking a catcher off because it shows confidence – Phil’s done it sometimes. However, I’m not sure that Joba is shaking catchers off in ST because he’s confident – arrogant? I don’t know…….he’s an odd duck.
Sean Rod. is a dead fastball hitter…..How can you shake off a catchers in the 1st spring game ???
# Donnie – Will Meet Anyone Interested Under the O’Neill Banner March 5th, 2010 at 1:56 pm
For those of you keeping score at home, that would be Hughes – 1, Joba – 0.
Hughes 1, Joba -1
Jennifer, there are two types of thyroid conditions, but, basically it controls metabolism and emotions.
here’s the differences.
http://www.ehow.com/about_5243.....ance_.html
Was Swish taken out of the game?
Betsy -Romine wasn’t built in a day March 5th, 2010 at 1:58 pm
Was Swish taken out of the game?
No, hes still talking to people in the stands.
Well, Phil has the early leg up on this competition.
mass hysteria in tampa! 5th starter chaos!..come on people, its the first ST game for hughes and joba…no need to go nuts over this
What hurts Joba is he continues to throw 3-1 and 3-2 sliders and hitters have made the adjustment to lay off that pitch.
Last year, 47 of his 76 walks came on Ball 4 sliders.
This inning, 2 more walks on sliders for Ball 4.
He needs to make that adjustment or its going to be tough for him to stay out there as a starting pitcher because his pitch count will go through the roof.
wow Cano
That was a GREAT throw to get Zobrist. Robbie nailed that one.
Cano throws harder than Phil or Joba.
I don’t get shaking a catcher off in ST when the idea is just to throw your pitches and get your work in. I suspect Joe will be having a talk with Joba. I wonder at some point when the Yankees will just throw their hands up in the air with this kid. I don’t mean give up on him exactly, but he’s so hard to reach..
Joba in 2008 averaged 95.1 MPH as a starter with a 6.1% whiff rate. So between 2008 and 2009 he lost 3 MPH off his fastball. He needs to get that back.
GreenBeret7
Seems like either one is pretty serious. I thought I read that the Mets were going to let him play today. than he was scratched. Such an incompetent team.
SJ44 March 5th, 2010 at 2:00 pm
What hurts Joba is he continues to throw 3-1 and 3-2 sliders and hitters have made the adjustment to lay off that pitch.
Last year, 47 of his 76 walks came on Ball 4 sliders.
This inning, 2 more walks on sliders for Ball 4.
He needs to make that adjustment or its going to be tough for him to stay out there as a starting pitcher because his pitch count will go through the roof.
I’m just going to assume that Hughes is going to be number 5. Joba thinks to hard.
Good Lord, what a great throw by Cano. NOBODY makes a throw from there.
The shaking off is a bad habit he really has to break.
I was talking to one of the guys on the team in the off-season. He believes Joba will end up in the bullpen because its less thinking out there.
He believes Joba overthinks out there, and that’s where the shaking off habits kick in.
His belief is, less is more for Joba.
I think Mo believes the same thing.
Time will tell if they are right.
The funnier part though is Gaudin, Aceves and Mitre looked much better. I am not concerned about Hughes and Joba at all. I think Gaudin is a nice piece if he just continues what he did last year. Mitre though could be a real nice piece to have, a year removed from the surgery. If he gets back to form he could be a quality trade chip for an NL team looking for a 4th or 5th starter.
47 of his 76 walks came on Ball 4 sliders.
That is a great stat.. Why is there even a debate on this bum starting? What would be the point anyway? He will go 5 innings, maybe 6 on a good day and 3 on a bad day with the way he stacks his pitch count up.
Hmmm Joba throwing 91 mph and giving you 5 innings every 5 days or fix this, Joba throwing 94 mph and being the 8th inning guy and pitching 4-5 times a week.
“cano is such a slacka.
pedroia woulda been waitin for da ball.
cano had da run all the way over there.”
my best imitation of why i don’t stay in cape cod all winter.
Thanks, Carl!
In 2008, Joba threw his fastball and slider equally in 3-2 counts and got 71% swing rates on both.
9.1% whiff on the fastball, 42% whiff rate on the slider (ridiculous)
In 2009…
Threw his slider 15% more than his fastball
68% swing rate, but only a 14% whiff rate
60% swing rate on fastball, 10% whiff rate
cervelli! LOL
blood and guts
The anti molina
The best part of that Tino HR was the hip swivel.
Cervelli on the move today!
“9.1% whiff on the fastball, 42% whiff rate on the slider (ridiculous)”
That change in his slider since 2007-08 has been as dramatic as the decline in his FB velocity.
IF that was Jose Molina, he’d be at first base
Some kind of hustle by Cervelli.
SJ, do you think it’s ok for kids to shake catchers off at all or just not in general until they are somewhat established? I know Phil actually did that in his debut……which was kind of cool. I wouldn’t mind Joba doing it if it wasn’t all the time or if I thought he wasn’t trying to prove something. In ST? That’s crazy.
Nice hustle by Cervelli. I’d rather him save that for the regular season, though.
“Why is there even a debate on this bum starting?”
What’s wrong with you?
A little early in ST to call a guy on the Yankees a “bum”, don’t you think?
Its the first game of ST for a pitcher. Last year CC gave up 5 runs in his first game in the spring and folks called him a “bust”.
Think before you post.
Way too early to get emotional over players and games.
Wait until April to panic.
Cano is such a baller, defense, swing…
Jetes giving the kid a free moment.
Wow, I see on NYYfans Phil’s outing is being called “pedestrian” and “unimpressive”; I guess they expect these kids to be pitch perfect right off the bat – and cue the worry about the velocity.
so they can’t even sacrifice him in?
Randy I ( The Original Tin Cup )…I was cleaning up my favorites section on my computer last night….I came across ” In the Dirt ” which I didn’t recognize at first….Man do I like your stirrups…..You just look like a catcher…..
I saw via GameDay that both of the triple were hit to center. How did Granderson look out there?
““Why is there even a debate on this bum starting?”
What’s wrong with you?”
Dropped as an infant.
Yes ST. Lester gave up 4 runs, 3 hits and 2 walks in one inning of work today. I don’t think the Sox are getting rid of him anytime soon based on his first start of the season.
LOL and already they want to “stab Eiland in the neck” because Joba’s been awful. I’m seriously starting to question why I even post there.
Great job of getting out of that scrape by Hellickson.
Oh, and Granderson apparently has a weak arm. Yankee fans are not happy today…
Jennifer,
It’s not that serious unless it goes untreated. Reyes has hyperthyroidism and may have an elevated heart rate and high blood pressure. There’s also a bunch of other things that can go wrong but those are the most serious issues. Medication will correct it.
Unfortunately I know all this from experience.
I wish Cashman had never made the incomprehensibly stupid decision to mess with Chamberlain’s arm and put him in the 2007 bullpen.
Okay, maybe it wasn’t incomprehensibly stupid considering we probably don’t make the playoffs in 2007 were it not for that stint. But those 24 innings mean Joba has to deal with something he never would have had to deal with otherwise. He would simply be what he is, a 24 year old starter with incredible talent who might not mature and put it all together until 25 or 26. Now even though he’s probably the third or fourth best reliever in the bullpen (his stuff hasn’t been impressive out of the pen since 2007 to begin with- people forget how flat he was in April, May, and September of 2008 and in the 2009 playoffs out of the pen) he’s going to be relegated to a role and wasted for the duration of his career.
If Joba can’t bring it as a starter, then his arm simply can’t hold up as a PITCHER in general. The fact of the matter is that he was flat all year last year, as a starter and as a reliever, and he’s not going to recapture any magic in the pen if he continues to show the flat stuff that he showed last year. His stuff has been flat out bad since the Boston game in August last year, as a starter and as a reliever, and its incumbent on the organization to figure out why. Because if he can’t show better than this as a starter he won’t be an asset to this team as a reliever either- I don’t see why people consistently don’t understand that. 90-91 Joba as a starter means 93 Joba with a flat slider out of the pen, which also means I’d rather see Robertson and Marte in high leverage roles.
A lead off triple left at third. This team is in midseason form already!
And before anyone gets bent out of shape, I’m being sarcastic.
Also, for anyone legitimately worried about Joba, John Lester just had a 33 pitch first inning, throwing only 17 strikes, and giving up 4 runs. These guys are ironing out their mechanics and getting back in to form. Also, Joba’s missed about a week of work with illness. If he turns in 2 or 3 more outings like this, sure, complain a little. But until then, relax. It’s spring training.
Phil and Joba in the pen ! For years and years think of the strong pen we would have ! Just do it !
I think Joba is throwing his slider more is he has lost confidence in his fastball. He sees the radar readings.
While I wish Hughes velocity was at 92-94, I do think he can pitch with lesser velocity than Joba. Joba’s starter success last year was after the all-star break when Joba, for some reason, had his velocity.
Betsy,
I think the shaking off is a bad habit. Sort of like a hitch in a hitters swing.
I think he gets so amped up to pitch, he overthinks and it leads to the shaking off.
Kind of like Nuke Laloosh in the Bull Durham movie.
I just wish he would go out there, trust his catcher AND his stuff, and let it fly, regardless of outcome.
Clearly, the first game of the spring is WAY, WAY too early to overreact to anything.
I just want Joba to go back to the attitude of, “Here’s my stuff, try hitting it” mentality that got him to the majors in the first place.
IMO, he’s gotten away from that in his efforts to prove he can start.
Joba is a bum and has been since he lost his velocity. I didn’t just come to this conclusion based on an inning of a spring training game. I watched him all of last year and never felt comfortable with him on the mound. Not for 1 inning.. Well OK, that game in Boston, maybe that’s the only one.
He is a BUM starting pitcher. He is an “A” reliever .
Starting Joba = Bad Joba.
I don’t need to watch another season of 5 inning outings, filled with 25 minute innings that destroy our bullpen the entire summer.
Oh, also, putting Joba in a “competition” where he realizes that he’s probably down 100 million over the course of his career if he doesn’t win means he’s gonna stress his arm and probably wreck it both as a starter in a reliever.
Competition, in this instance, is flat out stupid.
“What hurts Joba is he continues to throw 3-1 and 3-2 sliders and hitters have made the adjustment to lay off that pitch.”
Joba had one of the lowest rates for getting hitters to swing at pitches out of the zone in all of baseball last year.
They’ve adjusted. He hasn’t (or can’t).
It’s the first game so I don’t care about the performance so much or even his velocity.
But shaking off the catcher in game one of spring training? Really?? As a 24 year old who has already been told to stop doing that?
If he keeps doing things like that and keeps nibbling, falling behind etc. he doesn’t belong in the bull pen. He belongs in AAA.
I don’t know if it’s this BLANKING website with advertising on every square inch or my BLANKING provider, but I got shut down a while ago so I’m sure my comments are probably well out-of-date by now!
Jen, a thyboid imbalance is pretty common and easily fixed with medication. They have to find out whether it’s bacterial or coming from some other underlying condition. I was making a joke when I said Reyes better hope it’s underactive rather than over, because if it’s over, that could account for his quickness! Again, it was meant to be a joke.
JOBA WAS SICK THIS WEEK!
That was a (then) pre-emptive strike in case anyone was on a bridge over Joba’s outing. His virus could account for his less-than-stellar outing.
**************
Cervelli is so good.
Okay, that’s it for the untimely comments.
GRR!
Marty Foster must have a late afternoon t-time
Swisher is gonna be sore tomorrow
And you guys are funny.. I call a Joba a bum (which is just a word) and you guys all over react..
“Oh My God, How dare You”
“What are you thinking?”
“Dropped on his head”
It’s just a word. He pitched like a bum today and pitched like a bum most of last season. You take this way too personally. Are any of you related to him? Unlikely. Does it really bother you that much that a stranger on a message board called Joba a bum? Fine. I won’t call him a bum anymore. I’ll call him Jobber. Because that’s what he is. A jobber. If you don’t know what a jobber is, look it up, then come back here with more of your reactions.
Jeez people grow up.. It’s just a word.
“thats a scene from how i met your bullpen pitchers”…you know Kay practiced that for a while, just waiting to use it with any situation
“Joba is a bum and has been since he lost his velocity.”
Have you ever played a sport in your life?
will Joba headline Sportscenter?
Blaming Cashman for Joba. LOL
I see panic is already in place.
Get a grip…..and a clue.
Cashman hasn’t hurt Joba.
Stop the fanboy nonsense and think before you post or go to NYYFans.com and join the clowns in that circus.
Spring training is not the time to be nibbling. Throw that damned fastball, youngster. With his fastball, I’d think that would be the pitch to throw 2 out of every 3 pitches.
joba seemed like he was doing a funny pronation move with his hand over the ball even on his fastball.
might be nothing, but it looks a little funny to my eye.
it looked like he was working on something.
very mechanical.
i guess i’d say the ball didn’t come out of his hand freely.
Ben Linus, either Fatcessa learned how to use a computer blog, or Pete is back terrorizing his old blog.
Whelen is a pitcher to watch this spring and through the season in scranton.
I’m just catching up-is Swish OK??
GB7, he’s still too wild, at times reminds me of Farnsy.
GB, You just made the best observation today regarding Joba…..Whelen was the guy I thought would payoff in the Sheffield trade
Cashman hasn’t hurt Joba? Really? So the idiocy that we witnessed at the end of last year helped Joba?
Actually, it shouldn’t be wholly incumbent on Cashman. This entire organization is purely incompetent at developing young pitchers. There is no reason why Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain shouldn’t already be stalwarts in the rotation here, but the way that they’ve been handled means that both may accumulate 3-4 years of service time before they ever fulfill there potential. Its pretty inexcusable if you ask me.
For an organization that is pretty incredibly run from top to bottom there is still a huge issue in how young pitchers here are being developed and handled. The fact that its been 2 years and none of Joba, Hughes, or Kennedy has established himself as a regular starter cannot be fully blamed on the pitchers themselves.
“The Yankees just won a WS and spring training has just begun so forgive me from not getting feeling the negative vibes certain Yankee fans seem to feel, whenever, things don’t go their way with the Yankees.”
Wow Craw. This would make an awesome permanent tagline on this forum. That’s the way I feel all the time about people who pout whenever things don’t go their way with the Yankees.
*********************
The age-old discussion about shaking catchers off. Are you serious that Joba shouldn’t be shaking off Cervelli?
I guess there will always be at least two schools of thought on this stuff. I’ll go with the Cone/Leiter school of thought that says it’s better for a pitcher to be convicted with the pitches they throw and therefore shake off a catcher if they are not comfortable with the pitch selection.
It isn’t as if Joba shakes off every single call. And by the way, when better to shake off when you don’t have your stuff the way he didn’t today?
# Rich in NJ March 5th, 2010 at 2:19 pm
“Joba is a bum and has been since he lost his velocity.”
Have you ever played a sport in your life?
__________
I’m at a loss for what that has to do with anything but the answer is yes. Baseball and hockey. No I was never a pitcher..Would you like to know my hobbies and beer preference next?
That’s what you called wild.
Nobody better dig in cause Whelan doesn’t know where it’s going.
Needless to say, Kevin Whelan, probably not making the team.
i hope we don’t find that we lost a lot of production in our lineup without matsui and damon. so far, very concerned about it.
Here comes the “2nd wave” of hysteria.
Jeter is shocked he was able to get to that ball. Range.
Well Whelan is the last piece of the Sheff trade. When they made the deal it looked like they would at least get one arm out of the trade.
Piggy Pete has more important things to do than terrorize his old blog.
Aside from chomping down hamburgers, he has to build up one Casey Kelly, calling him a phenom for his work against Northeastern.
Trisha,
Nobody shakes off catchers in spring training. Its just something you don’t do.
You are using the spring to work on pitches and to create a rhythm. You get the sign and throw the pitch.
I can assure you, Al Leiter wasn’t shaking off pitchers in ST.
Pat M.
March 5th, 2010 at 2:24 pm
GB, You just made the best observation today regarding Joba…..Whelen was the guy I thought would payoff in the Sheffield trade
————————————————————
I was thinking that it was going to be Claggett or Whelen in a close race. Sanchez had the big unknown hanging over him with injuries. Always liked Whelen, though.
GB7 remember I said Whelan reminds me of Farnsy *scratch that* he reminds me of Igawa today.
Tricia, Look at the results , you might want to think your Vet catcher just might have better insight to what to throw…I can assure you both Cone & Leiter weren’t shaking off their catchers when they firat landed in the bigs…..
Walt March 5th, 2010 at 2:27 pm
i hope we don’t find that we lost a lot of production in our lineup without matsui and damon. so far, very concerned about it.
—————-
Yes, because 2 ST games mandate that fans start to have major concerns for the Yankees’ offensive capability…
the Rays have a history of piling on, *see their home opener last year
Let’s get Sean Rodriguez for LF *lol*
Shawn Rodriguez is the next Mickey Mantle.
Alan
March 5th, 2010 at 12:27 pm
Joba had fire in his eyes for appearances during the postseason and attacked hitters. His fate may lie in the bullpen unless he learns how to pitch economically as a starter and trust his catchers.
Having a pitch count of close to 90 by the 5th inning just won’t cut it.
================================
Dunno about that, seemed hittable to me.
Ben,
If you are over 12 years old and are panicking over a ST game and calling a pitcher a “bum” after his first spring outing, Rich, and anybody else with a functional brain, is not out of line with calling you clueless.
“I’m at a loss for what that has to do with anything but the answer is yes. Baseball and hockey. No I was never a pitcher..Would you like to know my hobbies and beer preference next?”
I would like to know why you say such stupid stuff?
Suzyn Waldman on wfan!
It’s Bleiching time
“If he keeps doing things like that and keeps nibbling, falling behind etc. he doesn’t belong in the bull pen. He belongs in AAA.”
I think that is a great idea. Assuming Joba continues to pitch like we saw last year (& today), he wouldn’t be of any real use in the bullpen anyways. Perhaps getting away from the scrutiny and pressure he currently faces would allow him to focus on honing his craft and getting back to the pitcher he was when he left the minors. At this rate, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Yankees actually consider that route. Without a drastic measure of this type I think the odds are really stacked against Joba realizing his potential.
Granderson hasn’t look too hot in CF today
this spring training game really isn’t an indication of anything. having said that, after watching the past couple games it seems like they need to quit the rest and arcade trips because it seems like most of the vets aren’t in shape. jump down my throat now.
YES! IT’S KEI IGAWA! BUSINESS IS ABOUT TO PICK UP!
Igawa!!
Kei
Pat M – I thought that was Cervelli he was shaking off. I was working on computer issues for a while so missed who he was shaking off.
**************
SJ, you know as well as I do that there are pitchers who want to have their games called for them (Pettitte) and pitchers who like to call their own games (Mussina).
If Joba overdoes it, then that’s something else.
COME ONE KEI!!! (from likely his only fan left)
Watch Kei smoke em!
I’d pull the starting outfielders though. They’ve suffered enough blunt-force trauma today.
Suzyn actually made sense – Phil is 23, only 23, and he’s been groomed to be a starter his whole life. She said (in response to Mike saying he was great in the pen) that anyone can be great with that FB and curve and that he wants to be a starter; she agrees with Mike about Joba.
“Granderson hasn’t look too hot in CF today”
That’s not entirely untrue, but in his defense, that wind has wreaked havoc on their ability to judge things. It’s catching the ball and really taking it deep.
CC had a 10+ ERA in the early part of 2009 ST. Should have traded that out of shape bum at that point, what a mistake by Cashman!!!
Geez, Suzyn making it sound like Matsui is the only clutch player to have ever played and the Yankees won’t be able to make it without him. Time to shut the radio off, lol
strikeout
Sayonara Rays threat.
If he could ever keep his pitches below the batter’s thighs, Igawa could be effective.
cy igawa
Igawa said give me your number 5 spot.
Trisha,
Its spring training. Nobody “calls their own game” in spring training.
Also, since the entire organization has spoken to Joba numerous times about not shaking off catchers so much, ya think shaking off a catcher in ST is something Girardi and Eiland want to see?
Dominance, thy name is Kei Igawa.
that 1-2 pitch that was called a ball was a good pitch for Igawa.
Cashman has done NOTHING to hurt Joba and Phil as starters.
Joba and Phil have done plenty to affect their chances as starters. Up until now, they both have performed best as professional relievers.
It’s not Cashman’s job for them to develop consistent secondary out pitches. It’s not his fault they nibble and run their pitch counts up to 100 before 5 innings as starters.
At some point, they will have to take the leap. He can’t throw for them. They have the best coaches on the best team in the league.
If they need to play in a less pressure packed environment on a losing team to develop into starters than he can’t help them.
The Yankees compete every season for a title. They don’t have time to tank a few years so Joba and Phil can figure out how to become effective starting pitchers in this league.
At this point, they’ve both faced enough batters and pressure situations to have a handle on what it takes to get MLB hitters out.
If they can’t function as starters, it’s their fault and it rests on their shoulders. The opportunities have been given.
It’s time to live up to the promise as a starter or excel, as they both have done, as relievers.
Could we not see Mitre and Kei being Pirates starting pitchers this year?
Igawa-Japanese for Houdini.
Missed the 3rd & most of the 4th. Is that a good thing?
By the way, though I have no dog in the hunt, I did say that I thought that Phil was more starter material due to his extremely even temperament and level of maturity than Joba at this point and that I thought of the two, Joba, with his excitability and power arm, was better suited for the bullpen.
I still feel that way.
The most annoying part of this game — even more annoying than the panic stricken posts here — is the Rays announcers. Listening on Gameday, and the only feed they have is the Rays. These guys are treating this like a real game — excited for every hit, raving about the “almost cycle”, and — even worse — talking about that play 2 years ago when they broke Cervelli’s wrist LIKE IT WAS A GOOD PLAY! How I wish I was home and able to watch on YES.
The most annoying part of this game — even more annoying than the panic stricken posts here — is the Rays announcers. Listening on Gameday, and the only feed they have is the Rays. These guys are treating this like a real game — excited for every hit, raving about the “almost cycle”, and — even worse — talking about that play 2 years ago when they broke Cervelli’s wrist LIKE IT WAS A GOOD PLAY! How I wish I was home and able to watch on YES.
YankeesWFAN Now pitching, winningest pitcher in Scranton history. Kei Igawa. 2 minutes ago
LOL
I hope Igawa makes the team.
Want to see Jesus get in there today.
Anyone have a scouting report on Joba? How did he look? Velocity? etc?
Thanks.
We are on our way to being 1-2. This is not good.
*sarcasm*
“Lori March 5th, 2010 at 2:39 pm
The most annoying part of this game — even more annoying than the panic stricken posts here — is the Rays announcers. Listening on Gameday, and the only feed they have is the Rays. These guys are treating this like a real game — excited for every hit, raving about the “almost cycle”, and — even worse — talking about that play 2 years ago when they broke Cervelli’s wrist LIKE IT WAS A GOOD PLAY! How I wish I was home and able to watch on YES.”
Just like their ballpark…The Rays have one of the worst announcers in baseball T.V. and radio
Joba looked pretty bad. No velocity, not very good breaking stuff, wild. Power pitchers are supposed to take more time to get up to speed, so we’ll see.
I don’t understand how anything I’m saying is “stupid”.
What’s “stupid” is Jobber being anything other than a reliever. The writing is on the wall. I don’t wanna hear any BS from you know it alls on how we don’t have enough body of work to decide, or it takes pitchers longer to develop or this guy didn’t become a star pitcher for 4 seasons.. I’ve heard all of the excuses.
It’s in the makeup, body language and mechanics. His delivery is disgusting and he over thinks way too much. This guy has been destroyed from within and we have nobody to blame but ourselves.. Still 3 years later, starter or reliever, it’s enough to make anyone crazy. He probably feels all of this pressure and it translates into a crappy performance where he is afraid to throw a strike.
Whether this is spring training or June 5th, what difference does it make with Jobber?
Did none of you see him “pitch” as a starter last year? Did you like the 5 inning outings where he topped off at 92mph? Did you like to be trailing 75% of the time he was in the game? If the answer to all of those is yes, then I guess I won’t win this argument..
I know that spring has arrived when I read insightful comments about Joba the bum. lmao
By the same logic, since Kei Igawa threw a scoreless inning I suppose that he should be put in the rotation!!
Also, could Joba still be affected by the flu? Or not throwing while he was sick?
Somebody should tell Joba every time he shakes off a pitch this spring it costs him 5 mil in future earnings.
So in round 1 ,I guess it’s Phil by unanimous decision?
Change-ups trump shake-offs.
m, he was totally off today. But he’s been sick most of the week so we’re going to have to see whether that played into it. His next outing will definitely be an interesting watch.
And comparing CC to Joba is a slap in the face. CC is a CY Young winner. Joba would be lucky if he can log enough innings this season to even qualify for the award.
In round 1, it’s Gaudin by unanimous decision. Both Joba and Phil ought to be in the bullpen….it makes this team 10 times stronger.
Jerkface,
Thanks for that. The internets are going to bonkers with one spring outing.
I seriously can not comprehend the panic that is going on on Yankee message boards. People are worried because Phil and Joba apparently looked awful and had nothing velocity while the Rays young pitchers looked to be in mid-season form. I really thought I had the bead on worrying, but apparently not. Holy cow.
RiverAveBlues Every1 claiming that today’s outing proves Joba belongs in the pen should remember that he sucked in relief today. Also, Angel Berroa. 21 seconds ago
Igawa-san HI!
“By the same logic, since Kei Igawa threw a scoreless inning I suppose that he should be put in the rotation!!”
Hey! That’s my Kei you’re talking about!!!
Back off pal.
He hasn’t been “destroyed from the inside”. That’s where your incorrect premise fails.
Its not coming from “know it alls”.
You just know nothing as every post of yours in this thread suggests.
Don’t get upset with folks point it out.
CB,
I know this response is late but I’ve been busy at work for the last few hours.
The reason I said that I think Porcello will make a big jump is because his control is so good. Last year he pitched more to contact and used his 2-seamer a lot. Now that he has some experience under his belt and the confidence that he is a legit major leaguer, I think he will become more of a strikeout pitcher.
Obviously this is all nonsense and I have nothing to back me up but Porcello is so young, has great stuff and is already a very polished pitcher.
Kershaw, I agree with you. He had a very good 2009 but I think he’s ready to bust out and become, like you said, a top 5 pitcher in his league.
Ben Linus,
What inning did Joba pitch, the third, you mean he came out of the bullpen??
JOBA IS A REAL LIFE VERSION OF RICK VAUGHN!!!!!
PUT HIM IN THE BULLPEN AND WATCH HIM BLOSSOM HE WILL BE THE BEST CLOSEER IN BASEBALL ONCE MO RETIRES.
People criticizing Hughes performance today are really missing the big picture.
Hughes will get his velocity back. He’s always had great fastball command. Those things will come back.
The big story on Hughes – and this is important – is how good his change up looked and how frequently he threw it.
Hughes hasn’t felt comfortable with the change in the past. He looked very comfortable with it today.
If Phil Hughes develops a plus change (and it was very good today) he has a chance to be a true front line pitcher with 4 pitches to turn to.
Ben Linus
March 5th, 2010 at 2:42 pm
I don’t understand how anything I’m saying is “stupid”.
————————————————————
You even breathe stupidly. Breathe through your nose instead of your mouth.
LOL GI Joe your not fooling me on Igawa-san
Ben Linus March 5th, 2010 at 2:45 pm
And comparing CC to Joba is a slap in the face. CC is a CY Young winner. Joba would be lucky if he can log enough innings this season to even qualify for the award.
———————–
Just like judging how a pitcher performs his year based on what you saw in the 2nd ST game of the season is a slap in the face to all knowledgeable posters.
Javy Vazquez on wfan
*this
Chambliss,
If he throws 2 more scoreless innings, some will give him Cooperstown consideration.
The spring always humors me because we see 2 things every year:
1. Folks making more out of ST results, up or down, than they should.
2. Folks panicking everytime the Yankees lose a game.
While its funny for me to read, its also embarrassing in a way.
I almost feel like Allen Iverson saying, “Its practice man, its practice”! LOL
If Joba’s having problems with his mechanics (it’s obvious even to a novice like Kay, lol), I’d love for him to spend time in the minors to iron them out. I know it won’t happen. But that truly would be the best thing for him personally.
“JOBA IS A REAL LIFE VERSION OF RICK VAUGHN!!!!!
PUT HIM IN THE BULLPEN AND WATCH HIM BLOSSOM HE WILL BE THE BEST CLOSEER IN BASEBALL ONCE MO RETIRES.”
Are you that stupid, he came out of the BULLPEN today and threw thrash genius.
lets just all be excited to watch montero, bleich and robertson get in the game! lol…nah who am i kidding, nobody can just enjoy Spring Training baseball
Cano has gone the other way both hits today.
Give the 5th spot to Gaudin!! Put Chamberlain and Hughes in the bullpen. The yankees will dominate and win 110 games if they did that!
They will be unstoppable with a bullpen of
Rivera
Chamberlain
Hughes
Marte
Robertson
Park
Aceves
Still only a ST game, but, maybe, finally, Igawa is learning that he can’t throw high pitches in the MLs. Girardi says they’ve been pounding that into him this spring. will it translate well? Who knows? Maybe well enough to get some use out of him in NY or in a trade.
GLove, that’s simply not true about Phil as a starter. He missed nearly all of 2007 and 2008 – he lost a HUGE chunk of development time. He showed a lot of promise last year as a starter before he was put in the pen. Was he perfect? No, but he’s a kid. I will always think the Yankees rushed Phil in 2007 – that was dumb on Cashman’s part. Rotation racked with injuries? Instead of being patient with his prized prospect who was NOT ready, he rushes him to the majors. I definitely do NOT blame the Yankees for Phil’s injuries, but he could have spent that year in AAA developing…and that didn’t happen.
People actually care about the numbers this early in spring training?
It was Joba and Phil’s first outing in the spring, lay off.. jeez
If they look like this in 3 weeks, then you can worry
I’m not saying this because of this game, but the Rays are going to be very, very good; it’s foolish to overlook them.
Kei Igawa should have a shot at the 5th rotation spot. Yanks should have ACE be the long man. Hughes our 7th, Joba our 8th and Mo in the 9th. It would 1998 all over again. If you cant score on the starters the game is over.
Not only Igawa, Mitre for 5 or someone else. Who is with me on that!
It’s salsa time w/ Cisco.
People read before you take shots.. I’m not making these statements based on just this game. It’s last year + his makeup + his inability to throw a strike + his horrific delivery.
SJ44- You might live on these boards but that doesn’t make you anymore knowledgeable than me or a die hard in the bleachers who doesn’t sit on a lohud blog all day.
How did we not destroy Joba from within? The Joba Rules, having him start, then 8 days off, then a start, then 6 days off, then the bullpen for a month, then spot starting, then back to the pen.. If that isn’t the definition of destroying a young pitcher, than I don’t know what is.
Enrique Wilson once batted .444 in ST. Tells you everything you need to know about ST.
Captain Clutch with a 6-4-3. Shocking.
Igawa for Cy Young – you read it here 1st – just kidding lets have fun in spring training!
Frank and Beans,
Not so sure about Igawa in the 5 spot but Cashman actually agrees with you. He said on Francesa’s show that the best team for 2010 probably has both Hughes and Chamberlain in the pen. However, he also said that doing that is probably a bad idea for after 2010.
You need to develop one or both of those guys as a starting pitcher to help future Yankee squads.
“If Joba’s having problems with his mechanics (it’s obvious even to a novice like Kay, lol), I’d love for him to spend time in the minors to iron them out.”
One of the unfortunate things about the Joba debate is that the root cause of his problems has become largely lost.
Somehow his role as a pitcher has been substituted for problems in his mechanics.
If the problem is his mechanics – you fix that.
If the problem is his role – you put in the bull pen.
His problem isn’t role. It’s mechanics.
Pitching out of the bull pen can hide certain deficiencies with a pitcher. But that’s hiding the problem – not fixing it.
Girardi on YES said Joba’s mechanics were bad today. Joba just told Jack Curry that his delivery wasn’t particularly bad today.
Ben Linus,
The Tigers Blew up Bondermans arm pitching him 200 innings or more his first year. Wood and Prior had too many innings. Joba rules will work for the long run. He will be ok ITS SPRING TRAINING!!!!
Not a great interview with Chamberlain. Still denying that he threw bad. Delivery was screwed up, but, he thought it was fine. Denial will get him, yet.
1) Last year (When he led the team and was in the top 10 in the league in ERA on August 1)
2) His Makeup (An overrated cliche)
3) His inability to throw a strike (Which is a problem in the bullpen as well as the rotation)
4) His horrific delivery (His delivery is far from horrific, Dave Eiland).Visit the following link below.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/m.....mechanics/
Oh, did I mention that Joba came out of the BULLPEN today!?
Ben,
At some point, Joba needs to be accountable.
The reason why they kept making changes is because Joba was stinking up the joint.
Ex. A- Joba’s high 1st inning ERA, so they have to have him simulate an inning before he goes out.
Skipping starts after the ASB was due to his ineffectiveness. When that didn’t help, they changed the plan again. And eventually, they went to a 3 man post-season rotation.
Nobody’s giving up on Joba. But he has to let others help him. That means listen to the coaching staff (and Jorge).
“Girardi on YES said Joba’s mechanics were bad today. Joba just told Jack Curry that his delivery wasn’t particularly bad today.”
This kind of stuff just drives me crazy..
Joba is such a knucklehead sometimes, I’m starting to think that if the Yanks want to get the most value out of him they should consider a trade..
My name is Frank and I’m a Category 2 Emotional Wreck poster with a chicken little complex and a chronic sense of dread.
I guess I can attribute my issues to when the Yankees failed to win yesterday’s game against the Phillies then Phil Hughes gave up a homer before I had a chance to sit down today. The convulsions didn’t start til Joba went 3-1 on the first hitter. The ensuing temporary blindness rendered me unable to Joba give up his last three runs, but the migraines remain.
3 things.
Can someone tell me how hard Igawa was throwing and to whom?
What was Jobas line?
Spring traingin H.O.F.ers.
Josh Phelps batting avg champ
Gardner homerun champ
NUFF SAID.
Betsy,
I don’t think any of us thought they rushed Phil to the majors when he was no-hitting Texas in his first start.
The fact that he left that game injured and took awhile to come back hurt his development. I don’t think the fact that the Yankees showed faith in him back then was the issue.
Who’s to say if he pitched that no hitter and stayed healthy, he wouldn’t be a rotation stalwart right now?
His injury issues were not caused by the Yankees. They were injures. They happen.
My point is, if Phil or Joba don’t hack it as a starter this season, it’s not Cashman’s fault. At some point, it’s on the players to progress.
Phil was brilliant last year until the post season as a reliever. If he can take that success, like David Cone though he could, into a starting role, he’ll easily beat Joba out of the 5th spot.
I don’t think either of them have failed as starters yet. But I also think you can’t blame the organization for Phil’s injuries and you can’t blame them for Joba’s lackluster results as a starter.
D-Rob throwing gas
It is amazing how short sighted some people are on this board. Anyone care to guess which pitcher had a record of 18-17 after four seasons in the majors? How about Roy Halladay.
Some guys step up and are successful right away, but that type of pitcher is a very rare breed.
People need to be patient with Hughes and Joba.
Then you don’t know the definition of “destroying a pitcher from within”.
Do you realize last year was the first year in 6 years Joba never missed a start or time due to an injury. Six years!
Meaning, last year was about getting him through a season in good health AND upping his innings. They accomplished both.
They didn’t “destroy him”.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Its ok, lots of people on blogs get overly emotional on gamedays. Even ST games.
To call a player a “bum” after his first ST start, and accuse the organization of “destroying him” doesn’t come from an area of knowledge because neither point is true.
Its just emotional fan babble and nothing more.
I want to see Montero
“I don’t think any of us thought they rushed Phil to the majors when he was no-hitting Texas in his first start. ”
Not sure if you remember, but at the time Pete Abe insisted Phil was rushed to the majors. He caught a lot of crap for that opinion on this blog but in hindsight he was probably right.
No worries guys, I’m coming back to the majors this year, so if Hughes and Chamberlain both fail you can count on me to pitch a few great games. I will need a walker to get out the mound though, but, no biggie.
Joba is such a knucklehead sometimes, I’m starting to think that if the Yanks want to get the most value out of him they should consider a trade..
=====
Bingo Partrick!! It seems like he contidicts everything the front office says. Going against the grain is never a good thing. Ask Mondesi. The man is in his own little world where he is not only the pitcher. But the catcher(calling his own pitches) and the Manager. He needs to hang out with Alex and follow suit. Less talking. More playing.
You lost points in your man card going to a Taylor Swift concert D-Rob.
CC on Wfan
SJ,
If you’re so encouraged by the fact they were able to up his innings last year without jeopardizing his health (which it genuinely seems like you are) then I’m honestly quite surprised that you think the idea of Joba going to the bullpen should even be considered.
As far as I’m concerned neither Hughes or Joba should spend a single waking moment in the bullpen. The Yankees are fully capable of winning 100 games this year with a setup corps led by Robertson, Marte, and Aceves. Putting one of these guys in the bullpen is going to cost Cashman upwards of 100 million dollars when he has to sign one or two FA pitchers to replace what we’d be getting for pennies.
Javy was just on with Mike and he sounded great; I’m so sorry I ever was angry about the trade as he really sounds like he’s thrilled to be back.
Glove, I hope I didn’t come across as defensive; if I did, I apologize. I agree with you in principal, but I think Joba and Phil are totally different stories. It’s frustrating that Phil lost so much time because I think if he hadn’t, he’d be a very good pitcher already.
CB, it’s crazy. There is no earthly reason to be worried about Phil as long as he is healthy. His command will come around (it’s not like he was all over the place). I think people worry about his velocity because 88-91 is what he was hitting when he returned from his injuries; also, there seems to be a disconnect between what people remember him throwing in the minors and what he throws in the majors (many say he threw 95/96 in AAA, but I don’t think Phil has ever said that he did).. They also think his velocity increase was due to being in the pen, but they forget that he was throwing well as a starter last year. Also, and I hate to say it, people want to find something to blame the Yankees for (re: Eiland). Lastly, Phil has a lot of late life on his FB and he doesn’t need to throw 95 MPH. Was Alex wrong when he said Phil throws “easy cheese” ? I don’t think so.
I totally agree with you about the change. You can tell just from his quotes this spring that he feels a lot better about it than he did in the past – that is the thing we should focus on.
S.o.S.
March 5th, 2010 at 3:05 pm
3 things.
Can someone tell me how hard Igawa was throwing and to whom?
What was Jobas line?
Spring traingin H.O.F.ers.
Josh Phelps batting avg champ
Gardner homerun champ
NUFF SAID.
————————————————————
Igawa threw about 88-90 MPH but kept a great hook low and away. Only ST, but, he looked good for one of the few times I’ve ever seen him. I’d like to see if he can repeat the same stuff a few more times, though. I can’t see him going North with the Yankees, though.
I missed Joba’s post-game. Sounds like he was in mid-season form though.
GB – just saw something go across the bottom of the screen that said Kiki Calero was offered a minor league contract. Didn’t see who the team was.
How did they rush Hughes to the majors? He could have blown out his hamstring in the minors.
Sometimes, stuff happens.
The Phil Hughes who was pitching that night, if he stayed healthy, would be a Top 3 starter in this rotation right now.
Unfortunately, injuries slowed him down.
He’s healthy now and will probably end up as the 5th starter this year, with a World Series Ring to boot.
Sometimes, things work out for the best, even if it takes a little longer.
How did they rush Hughes to the majors? He could have blown out his hamstring in the minors.
Sometimes, stuff happens.
The Phil Hughes who was pitching that night, if he stayed healthy, would be a Top 3 starter in this rotation right now.
Unfortunately, injuries slowed him down.
He’s healthy now and will probably end up as the 5th starter this year, with a World Series Ring to boot.
Sometimes, things work out for the best, even if it takes a little longer.
Brandon Awesome (B/c I’m still more AWESOME than you)
March 5th, 2010 at 3:11 pm
You lost points in your man card going to a Taylor Swift concert D-Rob.
*************************
LOL Robertson went to a Taylor Swift concert??
Let’s hope Hughes and Chamberlain get their velocity up to where guys like S. Rodriguez are retired. Even though this is ST, it’s ST for the Rays too! The bullpen versus starter discussion will take care of itself by opening day.
David Wells was a knucklehead too, and he turned out to a pretty damned good pitcher.
Who cares about Joba’s interview. When he pitches well he credits the catcher and his teamates when he pitches bad he credits the opposing team. Its the same thing every start. Its not a big deal.
Man, Robertson is for real, give me the ball and just chucks it by you…..Joba’s problem is Joba…We had this conversation the other day, so no sense going on with it….There are many who work in the game that say his arm just doesn’t translate into a starting pitcher…..Tough call for the club’s brass…So much promise at times, yet so disappointing….Hughes just has such sound fundamentals….
Ledger_Yankees Joba says he physically felt about 60-70 percent out there, stomach flu took off 8 pounds off since Tuesday. 3 minutes ago
“David Wells was a knucklehead too, and he turned out to a pretty damned good pitcher.”
He also had pinpoint command, which negates almost any fault a pitcher can have.
Patrick
March 5th, 2010 at 3:05 pm
“Girardi on YES said Joba’s mechanics were bad today. Joba just told Jack Curry that his delivery wasn’t particularly bad today.”
This kind of stuff just drives me crazy..
Joba is such a knucklehead sometimes, I’m starting to think that if the Yanks want to get the most value out of him they should consider a trade..
————————————————————
If Chamberlain is such a mess, why would anybody trade anything of value for him? Why would the Yankees unload him for 10 cents on the dollar?
“Joba is such a knucklehead sometimes, I’m starting to think that if the Yanks want to get the most value out of him they should consider a trade..”
That would be trading low, which is not a good idea.
Re: Joba, he will pitch himself to his role.
If he pitches well enough to start, he will start.
If not, he will go to the bullpen.
Some guys are given every opportunity to start and end up making it.
Some guys get every opportunity, can’t hack it as a starter, and go to the bullpen. Mariano Rivera is one example of that.
They are correct to give him every chance to start.
At some point though, they will have to make a call as to where to put him.
His performance will dictate what they do.
I don’t know why that’s so difficult for folks to comprehend.
GB7 beat me to it.
trisha – OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!!
March 5th, 2010 at 3:13 pm
GB – just saw something go across the bottom of the screen that said Kiki Calero was offered a minor league contract. Didn’t see who the team was.
\
————————————————————
The Mets signed him, trisha.
Glove, oh I agree – there is NO way you can blame the Yankees for Phil’s injuries. Do you really think that one start against Texas indicated Phil was ready to be in the ML rotation? I keep remembering that he never faced a bases loaded situation in his life; if he had remained healthy, believe me, he would have gotten tattooed at some point. However, I totally agree that if he had stayed healthy, Phil would be rotation mainstay right now– it stinks, but that’s not how it worked out. I’m sure Phil would agree with everything you said, by the way. Except for a minor incident last year, he’s always been one to take responsibility – I never worry about his maturity level. Joba’s another story.
He also had pinpoint command, which negates almost any fault a pitcher can have.
____________________________________________________
My guess is that he did not have pinpoint command when he was 24.
“Igawa threw about 88-90 MPH but kept a great hook low and away. Only ST, but, he looked good for one of the few times I’ve ever seen him. I’d like to see if he can repeat the same stuff a few more times, though. I can’t see him going North with the Yankees, though.”
Have you seen the man run, he can go w/ us.:lol:
Randy I, was clearly against Young Master Hughes being brought up to the Big Club…He was the only person that I remember being so on the record about that…And he was right on…..
Ledger_Yankees
Joba says he physically felt about 60-70 percent out there, stomach flu took off 8 pounds off since Tuesday
___
He had the bum flu.
SJ, you know I’m saying this as the biggest Phil fan in the world, but do you really think 1 start in 2007 showed Phil was ready to be in a major league rotation? Cashman obviously didn’t think he was ready as he insisted Phil was going to stay in AAA until at least September.
Last time I tried to pitch after having a stomach flu where I lost 8 pounds I definitely couldn’t do it.
I say we cut Joba a little slack, hey?
There is no reason to trade Joba.
BTW, he’s always a slow starter.
Panic in Late March if he is pitching like this.
All this stuff tends to take care of itself.
Pat M.
March 5th, 2010 at 3:16 pm
Man, Robertson is for real, give me the ball and just chucks it by you…..Joba’s problem is Joba…We had this conversation the other day, so no sense going on with it….There are many who work in the game that say his arm just doesn’t translate into a starting pitcher…..Tough call for the club’s brass…So much promise at times, yet so disappointing….Hughes just has such sound fundamentals….
————————————————————
Imagine if Chamberlain had Robertson’s pitching smarts and his own stuff.
Thanks GB.
I dont think his 88 mph will work with the a.l. hitters. But who knows? Maybe San Diego can finally trade for him. I think he needs a statue made of him in Scranton.
“SJ, you know I’m saying this as the biggest Phil fan in the world, but do you really think 1 start in 2007 showed Phil was ready to be in a major league rotation”
It didn’t show he wasn’t ready, Betsy.
Brandon Awesome (B/c I’m still more AWESOME than you)
March 5th, 2010 at 2:52 pm
“JOBA IS A REAL LIFE VERSION OF RICK VAUGHN!!!!!
PUT HIM IN THE BULLPEN AND WATCH HIM BLOSSOM HE WILL BE THE BEST CLOSEER IN BASEBALL ONCE MO RETIRES.”
Are you that stupid, he came out of the BULLPEN today and threw thrash genius
———————————————
Joba still had the starting menaltity. The starting mentality that Joba has is poisonius.
When was the last time he threw at a batters head? We need to see that Joba return. He pitches like a kitty cat as a starter but pitches like a lion in the bullpen.
Ledger_Yankees Joba on chance of skipping appearance: “you’d probably have to chop my legs off to be honest with you.” 2 minutes ago
Who is pitching now? The radio announcers don’t help you out.
Besty,
The kid who was on the mound that night against Texas, I don’t care how old, was a beast out there.
A guy who could pitch in a major league rotation.
Sometimes, a players performance accelerates their timetable to the majors.
If Hughes didn’t get hurt that night, he would have at least 40-50 wins in the majors right now, IMO.
He would be a rotation stalwart today. He was that good.
We’re going to acquire Mauer at some point, I can feel it.
Did Joe talk about Phil today? What did he think? Thanks!
Sounds like Robertson looked good – that’s great news especially since it seems he’s healthy.
“Man, Robertson is for real, give me the ball and just chucks it by you…..”
Pat,
I believe you had some concerns about the pen were Hughes or Joba not be used as the 8th inning guy. But I do think that Robertsdon is the real deal. He’s more than capable of being the 8th inning guy.
Now he is on the small side and you’re particular concern was about him holding up over a whole season and that’s an unknown.
But stuff wise – he’s lights out. He has the stuff to be one of the better set up guys in the AL.
David Wells had such a fluid and repeatitive delivery that never starined his arm / shoulder…His weight and lack of conditioning caused his back to go south…..His arm is probalbly just as solid today as it was then…..Cost the club dearly in the 03 W.S.
Reason #2324 Not to be an accountant
I have gotten 43 e-mails that require my attention in my inbox since 11am TODAY
Nice snatch by Miranda.
I think Robertson has the stuff to eventually be a closer.
Joba is a “bum” or any negative comment based on todays performance as Kei Igawi is “an ace” based on todays performance.
Rich, that’s true.
SJ, I wanted to cry that night and so did all Yankee fans. I should just be grateful that he didn’t injure his arm, which easily could have happened due to the severity of his leg injuries. Fans who think Phil hasn’t shown much as a starter lately should watch his game against Texas last year.
S.o.S.
March 5th, 2010 at 3:22 pm
Thanks GB.
I dont think his 88 mph will work with the a.l. hitters. But who knows? Maybe San Diego can finally trade for him. I think he needs a statue made of him in Scranton.
————————————————————
Pettitte’s 88 MPH “heater” works pretty well. Today, it was his curve that did well. He did spot two high fastballs up and in. One moved Upton back a little hand got popping up a hook on the next pitch.
Michael Kay is an idiot
“Not sure if you remember, but at the time Pete Abe insisted Phil was rushed to the majors. He caught a lot of crap for that opinion on this blog but in hindsight he was probably right.”
patrick-
my point at the time was that he couldn’t throw more than 40 pitches without tiring because of the historically cold and crappy weather that winter in northern triple aaa teams.
i happened to be in the twin triple a locker room a few days before hughes started when garza could only go 76 pitches max because he was behind where he was supposed to be because of the cold weather.
if hughes would have started 6 weeks later when he was stretched out i would have had no objections to see what he had at the mlb level.
as it was, he wasn’t ready that first start to pitch more than 40 pitches at full velocity. but he tried because it was the major leagues and the adrenaline was pumping.
the texas start showed he was ready as far as stuff goes, but i really don’t think he was stretched out enough as far as conditioning goes and he got into that danger area where it’s too many pitches for the conditioning level.
that’s why i think the hammy blew.
just a very specific injury to a very specific situation.
though there is no way to prove it wouldn’t have happened at triple a.
the only thing is at triple a , he would have been on a low pitch count max and winning the game wouldn’t have mattered that much.
it’s water over the dam though.
he’s here now and should be ready to take the next step forward.
Noesi is pitching for NYY
Carl
March 5th, 2010 at 3:29 pm
Michael Kay is an idiot
*************
Any particular reason why?
whats the score? last time it was posted it was like 7-0.
“the texas start showed he was ready as far as stuff goes, but i really don’t think he was stretched out enough as far as conditioning goes and he got into that danger area where it’s too many pitches for the conditioning level.
that’s why i think the hammy blew.
just a very specific injury to a very specific situation.”
Let’s even grant your point for the sake of argument. That only means he should have been on a pitch count, not that he wasn’t ready for the ML.
Erin March 5th, 2010 at 3:31 pm
Carl
March 5th, 2010 at 3:29 pm
Michael Kay is an idiot
*************
Any particular reason why?
Doesn’t know what hes talking about.
John – 8-1
Hughes was around 80 pitches and it was a nice 70 Degrees out. I don’t buy it was conditioning.
Hughes pitched more pitches in 20 degree colder weather his very first start, and had 3 starts in the minors where he went 5, 5, and 6 IP. 5 IP is usually 70ish pitches for yankee minor leaguers. 6 IP is 70-90.
thanks trisha.
I can’t beleive how many people are going crazy over Joba’s first ST outing. Cmon people! Guy was sick for the last few days and its his first appearance. Took him awhile last spring to get into gear as well. He’ll be ok. I do think in the end though, that he should be in the pen and Hughes should get that 5th spot. I would love to see Igawa win a spot as the 2nd lefty in the pen as well.
CB, I think that the Yanks have 2 concerns in the pen this season…Keeping Rivera healthy and not over using him…His injury last October might have sent off a few red flags….Secondly, Cashman wants a very deep pen as we all remember last spring and if not for Hughes, things would have been dicey last September…..Robertson has the arm, the presence, however his track record is still unknown…..I think he’s going to be outstanding, but he’s still an unproven quantity
RiverAveBlues ESPNNewYork.com is hiring @Ian_OConnor for the site. I guess they promised to delete his bad A-Rod columns a few months later. about 1 minute ago
Hey I love Cisco, but I know they aren’t cutting Jesus’s AB for him, are they?
Swisher on wfan
Ouch – 8-1? Who gave up the runs besides Joba?
Hughes wasn’t even half of 80 pitches today.
montero looks like a stud at the plate…even when takes pitches i smile
Francisco Cervelli – It’s too early to “make an opinion” about whether Joba or Hughes should be the number 5 starter.
He also thought that Joba’s fastball command was fine but that he was sick a few days ago and that hampered him.
WORD.
Let’s move on.
is michael kay dating kim jones? thats the rumor i hear. she can do better, no ?
We gotta get Montero a better number than 83.
I think Whelan gave up 3 or 4 runs.
“Ouch – 8-1? Who gave up the runs besides Joba?”
Hughes allowed one and Whelan two, I think.
look at that pitcher bouncing those balls…he is scared of montero!
“is michael kay dating kim jones? thats the rumor i hear. she can do better, no ?”
Can HE do better?
WHOA…keep that ball away from Montero’s head….
Joe Madden baseball
He nearly beaned Montero in the head. Charge the mound >:(
Cervelli giving the intelligent answer of the day re: Joba/Phil:
“Its too early to have an opinion”.
“He nearly beaned Montero in the head. Charge the mound >:(”
That should a capital offense.
Jesus looked at him like you gotta be kidding’ me..
The Wild Horse comes through.
“is michael kay dating kim jones? thats the rumor i hear. she can do better, no ?”
That’s my son you’re talking about!!!!
But to answer your question, yeah she probably could.
LMAO. Montero just saw his life flash before his eyes. at 20 years old, that took about 2 seconds.
God please let Golson find his swing.
JohnC -
Agree with your entire post.
There’s such a thing as overanalyzing situations, and believe me, I think some lohudders might corner the market on that!
These games are really for enjoyment (or lack thereof) at this point. SPRING TRAINING IS WOODSHEDDING TIME! As someone already pointed out, worry (if that’s your gig) at the end of March, not the beginning.
trisha – OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!!
March 5th, 2010 at 3:40 pm
Francisco Cervelli – It’s too early to “make an opinion” about whether Joba or Hughes should be the number 5 starter.
He also thought that Joba’s fastball command was fine but that he was sick a few days ago and that hampered him.
***********************
All right Cervelli!! Love him
8-5 Go SWB Yankees
so whats the excuse when joba is at 100% in a week and still get’s hammered? if he was at 60% then it was a really stupid thing to let him go out there and pitch – hell they’ve given DL Jesus (Nick Freak Accident Johnson) 2 days off so far for a hurt back (get used to that people btw) but they’ll throw joba out at 60%? I ain’t drinking that kool aid, I’m sorry.
Miranda, my pick to backup DH and 1B.
Who said I got a position for Miranda, homeplate
I’d give him 4 ABs a game.
Brandon looks like he found his swing!
Erin, I had to concentrate really hard to listen to Cervelli because of, you know – the eyes!
Mama flippin’ mia. They should be outlawed.
good catch for Kay if true
NYY has to make a decision on Miranda. This is the last year of his 4 year major league contract.
“so whats the excuse when joba is at 100% in a week and still get’s hammered? if he was at 60% then it was a really stupid thing to let him go out there and pitch – hell they’ve given DL Jesus (Nick Freak Accident Johnson) 2 days off so far for a hurt back (get used to that people btw) but they’ll throw joba out at 60%? I ain’t drinking that kool aid, I’m sorry.”
You don’t have to. However, it’s the truth. But if you’d prefer to spin out of control needlessly, that’s certainly your choice.
Nice AB by Montero earlier.
You don’t need to drink Kool Aid.
Just as we don’t need to believe your lame predictions.
What if he pitches better in a week, what will you do then?
I know, change your blog name and come on here and proclaim him great.
Get a grip and a clue. Its his first ST outing after being sick for a week. That’s not an excuse, its a fact.
Try using facts sometime. You may learn something.
“Let’s even grant your point for the sake of argument. That only means he should have been on a pitch count, not that he wasn’t ready for the ML.”
rich in nj
i wouldn’t disagree with that.
“Hughes was around 80 pitches and it was a nice 70 Degrees out. I don’t buy it was conditioning.”
jerkface-
that’s because the only conditioning you know about is your air conditioning.
check the yankee triple a schedule that year for the weather that year and see how many pitches hughes had thrown before his yankee debut.
i think you’ll see a lot of delayed games and rainouts.
funny how this is one of those age classic blog arguments that brings out the emotions.
the problem is that no one can prove anything because what happened happened and we don’t get to see an alternate reality where hughes was kept at triple a the way garza was at exactly the same time.
Wouldn’t the Yankees still control Miranda for 2 more years?
Piece bit of hitting by Russo
GB7 I think he can step in for Matsui. Not 100% positive but pretty sure. BTW how many yrs. till Chato’s last yr. in his contract kicks in?
Russo reminds Lugo, but less power.
Cano is going to be on wfan
Russo shows some plate coverage.
***Nice*** bit
Is there competition for the utility role (Russo), or does Pena have the job?
Oh, just Whelan? Ok, no biggie, lol – thanks!
I don’t mean to be a pest, but I’m away from the tv. Did Joe comment on Phil’s outing?
Carl
March 5th, 2010 at 3:54 pm
Cano is going to be on wfan
*********************
OMG!!! Can you give me a recap, Carl??
Thank you
Miranda signed a ML contract and he’s just about out of options. He’s the left handed version of Vazquez.
hmm Chato chasing Juan.
Vazquez mashes a 2B.
Aww, Cano’s mom used to play softball – she was a 3rd baseman. He’s such a good kid, Cano – I hope he can overcome his RISP issues because he’s amazingly talented.
Vasquez was a guy some thought could help the Yanks last year…
This is getting very competitive for spots.
catchers
Jesus and Austin
DH
Miranda/Johnson/Vasquez
UTY INF
Pena/Nunez/Corona/Russo
4th OF
Curtis/Golson/Thames/Winn
Thats my Chico!!! ‘El Destructor’ with a mash. He had the hardest hit ball yesterday in one AB and Mayberry dove and grabed it. Jorge=Monster!!!!
Pena and Russo are probably neck and neck if it were really a race, but, Pena has the one year’s worth of experience going for him. By next year, Nunez will take the job. That’s the glove, bat and legs to watch.
Looks like a nice little comeback by the SWB squad there. Those guys have been playing well.
Pay attention to Duff, he has an arm.
Betsy -Romine wasn’t built in a day
March 5th, 2010 at 3:58 pm
Aww, Cano’s mom used to play softball – she was a 3rd baseman. He’s such a good kid, Cano – I hope he can overcome his RISP issues because he’s amazingly talented.
————————————————————
Robinson Cano is a Yankee legacy. His father signed his first contract as a Yankee pitcher in 1980. He pitched a few games for the Astros.
Who wins in a mash contest
Juan Miranda vs Jorge Vasquez
TBC
Erin March 5th, 2010 at 3:56 pm
Carl
March 5th, 2010 at 3:54 pm
Cano is going to be on wfan
*********************
OMG!!! Can you give me a recap, Carl??
Thank you
Very sad that Melky is gone. very sad lol. Also talked about his dad. he played for 20 years. His mom played softball. Said this may be a good thing for him and Melky. He also talked about how he was jumpy with risp.
That’s pretty much it.
Brandon Awesome (B/c I’m still more AWESOME than you)
March 5th, 2010 at 4:02 pm
Pay attention to Duff, he has an arm.
————————————————————
Lot of issues, though and he’s not exactly young. Too many walks and not enough strikeouts to combat it.
To call a player a “bum” after his first ST start, and accuse the organization of “destroying him” doesn’t come from an area of knowledge because neither point is true.
=======
Not to mention, that the two narratives are a contradiction.
If the organization “destroyed him”, then how much of a “bum” can he be?
If he’s a “bum”, being “destroyed” would come at his own hands, yes?
The Yankees “destroyed” a “bum”.
Hmm….
Either way, I’m glad I spent the day watching and not in here. Seems like STGTs, which I was actually looking forward to, are garbage time, big time.
I also think the unfamiliar names and their bashing posts signal troll alarms. Isn’t Boston playing today, and isn’t there a board these people can flock to to be with their own kind?
Classic case of having a great arm and no command. Always been Duff’s issue.
Would love to see him iron it out this year because he would be a useful trade chip if he can.
Oy -
Just got in a little while ago and had no access to the game. I had a feeling it was going to be a little like this today.
Nice little inning there for the youngsters.
Sounds like, from what you guys said, Phil did a good job, throwing his changeup – nice. I was ready for Joba to have a tough day.
Carl
March 5th, 2010 at 4:06 pm
Very sad that Melky is gone. very sad lol. Also talked about his dad. he played for 20 years. His mom played softball. Said this may be a good thing for him and Melky. He also talked about how he was jumpy with risp.
That’s pretty much it.
**********************
Thanks Carl!! He gets baseball from both sides of his family! lol It’s too bad Melky’s gone-I know Robbie will miss him.
Hey, the awesome one….I already told you yesterday who would win the mash contest. El Chato, hands down. My boy Vazquez!!!!!
Best commercials on TV are the Capital One commercials.
check the yankee triple a schedule that year for the weather that year and see how many pitches hughes had thrown before his yankee debut.
i think you’ll see a lot of delayed games and rainouts.
–
No Delays, average temp is 50 degrees they were in Syracuse, Norfolk, and Richmond.
Apr 6
5 IP, 2 H, 2 R, 2 ER, 2 BB, 6 K, 1 WP, 1 HB, 9-0 GB/FB 74 pitches
Apr 12
5 IP, 7 H, 5 R, 5 ER, 2 BB, 1 K, 9-4 GB/FB 89 pitches
Apr 18
6 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 0 BB, 10 K, 6-2 GB/FB 83 pitches
He threw enough pitches and on a regular, albeit elongated schedule, but threw his major league debut with the same gap
Yankz1, I still think Miranda is more ahead of him, we’ll see.
“Isn’t Boston playing today, and isn’t there a board these people can flock to to be with their own kind?”
Speaking of Boston, Lester gave up 3 hits, 2 walks, and 4 runs in one inning of work today. I guess he’s a bum also.
This is hilarious:
BryanHoch Joba Chamberlain offered me the uneaten half of his peanut butter & jelly sandwich. I think it was wise to pass. about 1 minute ago
When is Brackman going to get in a game?
Erin
March 5th, 2010 at 4:20 pm
This is hilarious:
BryanHoch Joba Chamberlain offered me the uneaten half of his peanut butter & jelly sandwich. I think it was wise to pass. about 1 minute ago
————————————————————
It might have been better if Chamberlain would have passed on the jelly part of the sandwich.
Awesome….I hear ya, but Miranda is an ‘if’ Chato is a ‘when’. He is the real deal
Biography:
Is a 10-year veteran of the Mexican League, recording an avg of .347 in his last five seasons(2004-08). … Led the league in slugging percentage (.796) and ranked second in homers (33) in 2005 in 71g. … Also led the league in slugging (.739) and second in homers (31) in 2006 in 75g…… Was a member of the 2000 and ‘01 Mexican League championship teams. …Was a member of Team Mexico for World Baseball Classic……Signed by the New York Yankees as a free agent on Dec. 7, 2008.
Highlights: 2009
Spent his first season in the Yankees organization with Double-A Trenton. …In debut hit a two-run home run and had 4rbi’s…. Was EL All-Star placing 3rd in the league in avg(.332), 5th in HR(13), 7th in RBI(55) and 1st in SLG (.584) while only playing in 56 out of the leagues 91g at the break…For the week of June 21-27 hit .560 (14-for-25) with 3 HR and 9 RBI….With RISP batted .394 w/ 6 HR, 43 RBI and 1.134 OPS…. Had 21multi-hit games, including five three or more-hit games. … Had 14 multi-RBI games with four RBI in a game three times…Was on team Mexico for World Baseball Classic. Hit a grand slam in first WBC at bat, batting .294 with 1HR, 5runs and 5RBI’s in 5games.
I hope Hoch is kidding about Mitre…….
GreenBeret7
March 5th, 2010 at 4:25 pm
It might have been better if Chamberlain would have passed on the jelly part of the sandwich.
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Not a jelly fan, GB?
I thought it was cool that Joba and I had the same thing for lunch today (although if he just had his sandwich now, he had a really late lunch)
JackCurry1 Only in spring trainining…Joe Girardi chatting with a few media folks near his office between 8th and 9th innings
3 minutes ago via mobile web
“I hope Hoch is kidding about Mitre…….”
What did he say, Betsy?
YankeesWFAN Don’t read too much into Joba yet. 3 days ago he was in bed with stomach flu. Hughes threw a dozen changeups, some good ones too. about 1 minute ago
Erin
March 5th, 2010 at 4:29 pm
GreenBeret7
March 5th, 2010 at 4:25 pm
It might have been better if Chamberlain would have passed on the jelly part of the sandwich.
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Not a jelly fan, GB?
I thought it was cool that Joba and I had the same thing for lunch today (although if he just had his sandwich now, he had a really late lunch)
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Erin, I’m a big PB&J on toast fan, but that doesn’t Chamberlain needs to be. He’d be better off hanging around the Lean Cuisine table.
LOL Nothing that’s a big deal, just that Mitre looks like the leader in the clubhouse, lol. No matter what Joe says, there is NO way that either Joba or Phil don’t win the #5 spot unless they flat out stink.
Hughes’ changeup is the big story, not his velocity or the fact his command was a bit off. I’m not the biggest Joba fan in the world, but I don’t doubt he was feeling a bit off from being sick recently.
Erin, thanks!
GreenBeret7
March 5th, 2010 at 4:34 pm
Erin, I’m a big PB&J on toast fan, but that doesn’t Chamberlain needs to be. He’d be better off hanging around the Lean Cuisine table.
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Oh, I see. LOL
Dice K will probably start the season on the DL.
His first Spring start won’t be until the 17th.
Betsy -Romine wasn’t built in a day
March 5th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
Erin, thanks!
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You’re very welcome
Hughes in first inning:
http://www.daylife.com/photo/0.....?q=Yankees
Better his FB command be off than that he have major struggles with his change because we know the command will be there…..
Joba:
http://www.daylife.com/photo/0.....?q=Yankees
I just want to say, Tino’s been fine in the booth, from what I’ve been listening to the last half hour or so.
Erin
March 5th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
GreenBeret7
March 5th, 2010 at 4:34 pm
Erin, I’m a big PB&J on toast fan, but that doesn’t Chamberlain needs to be. He’d be better off hanging around the Lean Cuisine table.
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Oh, I see. LOL
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That would accomplsh 2 things, Erin. Chamberlain loses some weight, but, most importantly, it means more jelly for you and me.
GreenBeret7
March 5th, 2010 at 4:45 pm
Erin
March 5th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
GreenBeret7
March 5th, 2010 at 4:34 pm
Erin, I’m a big PB&J on toast fan, but that doesn’t Chamberlain needs to be. He’d be better off hanging around the Lean Cuisine table.
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Oh, I see. LOL
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That would accomplsh 2 things, Erin. Chamberlain loses some weight, but, most importantly, it means more jelly for you and me.
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I like the sound of that plan!
Phil to be on with Mike…….Who gave up those last runs? Thanks!
Martinez did fine. Not really a radio/tv voice, but, neither does O’Neill. He adds a lot of insight to go with Singleton’s. Good sense of humor, but, not quite as cutting as O’Neill’s. Murcer and Kaat were probably the best at that job, though.
Grant Duff gave up 3 and Dustin Mosely gave up the last run, Betsy.
tino sounds like he has marbles in his mouth.
coney will be missed.
Phil says he has no preference, but I don’t buy it. I know he wants to be a starter – he’s just not going to say it.
Aww, Phil. He said that being a major leaguer is a great thing and that, while for some guys it’s just about ego, he’s just glad to do what he can to contribute.
I guess some of the starters are alrady making the turn to the back 9…..Joba should get somewhat of a pass today, although much of what he did looked familiar….
GB, thanks! Eh, it’s not like those guys are going to make the team.
LOL Mike asked Phil if this is a friendly competition or if there is some fire between the two (or something like that) and Phil said it would be the latter if they were boxers…
As far as Martinez goes, I look for him to get a crack at a GM’s job some day. I can also see him and Jeter buying a piece of a ball club, some day. They both have some dollars socked away. Maybe Pettitte kicks in some of his Texas dollars, too.
What Phil said was every guy comes up and wants to be a starter and until someone tells you they think you’re better off in the bullpen, that’s the goal. He sounded as mellow as always, and he said he wanted to be a part of the big league team. He said some guys get too picky about what exact role they have. Sounds like a guy who would be okay with wherever he ends up. He also said at the very end that AAA has not been totally outruled.
GB7 -
So, if Jeter, Tino and whoever get together and buy a team (not the Yankees), who do we root for?????
Hey, GB7 – wasn’t Tino at last year’s draft?
holy cow guys. i just checked in for the first time today, busy day at work. 770+ comments and it’s a spring training game. wow
Doreen, I still believe Phil wants to be a starter – he’s just not going to say that. I don’t mean that he’s unhappy as a reliever, but as Suzyn said, he’s been groomed a starter his whole career.
I have no preference as to who starts and who goes to the pen as long as the Yankees win because of the correct decision. I just don’t think Hudhes has a lot to gain by going to Scranton. Chamberlain, on the othe hand, could go either way. He could be huge in the pen, but, he could go to scranton and pout and fall apart. Hughes has a maturity beyond his years.
Montero is coming up, along with Pettitte and Rivera on YES.
Yes, he’d be ok with it because he’s not the complaining type and he wants to stay in the big leagues……
Montero’s a cutie. Very good English.
Montero on with Mike.
Just finished watching the game on DVR.
Was impressed with:
1. Cano- wow he looks great so far this spring. Does he make the leap to elite this year?
2. Robertson- this kid is legit, both stuff and makeup wise.
3. Igawa- I like the new arm angle to lefties. He could see some innings out of the pen this year (i’m not kidding).
4. Phil’s changeup. Good arm speed and velocity differential. Pretty good first outing.
5. Cervelli. Love him and think he will be a great backup.
Its the first start of the season and Joba has been sick but lets call a spade a spade. He did not look good at all and picked up just where he left off as a starter last year, getting behind, shaking the catcher off, and the either walking people or grooving fastballs because he’s behind. Very early but not a good first impression when you’re competing for a position.
Doreen – 2010 GTLU
March 5th, 2010 at 5:03 pm
GB7 -
So, if Jeter, Tino and whoever get together and buy a team (not the Yankees), who do we root for?????
Hey, GB7 – wasn’t Tino at last year’s draft?
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I think they buy a piece of the Yankees, to be honest, Doreen.
Yeah, Martinez was part of the draft decisions and at the table.
pat
March 5th, 2010 at 5:11 pm
Montero’s a cutie. Very good English.
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He speaks better than Francesa. He’s a smart kid and really good with the fans (kids). Nice to hear that he has his family here in the States with him.
Nice little interview with Montero. He wants to catch and is working on his catching. I, for one, hope he gets here as a catcher. Not only because having a good hitting catcher is a plus on a team; but precisely because he is so focused on it and intent on improving. I’m rooting for him.
As an aside, it’s really depressing that all these guys are around the ages of my daughters. I can’t have crushes anymore – they’re my kids!!!
Montero as a catcher in the big leagues looks realistic from what I saw today. He is big but all he has to be is respectable back there because man he looks menacing swinging that bat and I think he can get there.
New post. Notes from today. I have to get stories finished for the paper, but I’ll try to get audio from Chamberlain, Hughes and Girardi posted at sooner rather than later.
GB, lol…….
I want Romine and Montero as future Yankees, so however they can get here is ok by me.
Been a bit out of the loop recently. Almost 800 posts?!
How about Kei Igawa! Let me not hold my breath, but could it be? Could we actually have a $4M situational lefty out of the pen?
“I can’t have crushes anymore – they’re my kids!!!”
I adopt them now instead of have crushes. Last year was Melky and Robertson. I need a new kid now that Melky is gone.
David Robertson has a future closer mentality. Cool and collected. He’s doing his homework watching Mo.
Unless he gets it together, Joba is a 7-8th inning reliever. He gets too rattled to be a closer.
pat -
that’s the ticket – Adoption!!
Mo’s on with Mike F right now. He makes everything sound so simple!
GB7 -
I’m hoping they buy into the Yankees, too.