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A little deja vu for CC

Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc, Podcast on Mar 09, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

In his second start of last year’s spring training, CC Sabathia got knocked around by the Tigers over in Lakeland. The line was ugly: 1 2/3 innings, six hits, five runs, one day that Sabathia would have liked to forget.

This afternoon – in his second start of this year’s spring training – Sabathia had a similar experience. This time it was the Pirates roughing him up, torching him for five runs and seven hits in 2 1/3 innings. Afterward, Sabathia was realistic – this is spring training after all – but also not particularly happy.

“Everything was up – belt-high and above. It’s pretty easy to hit when it’s like that,” Sabathia said. “I always say results don’t matter until I give up eight runs in two innings to the Pirates.”

But wait, one writer said, you only gave up five runs. “It should have been eight,” Sabathia replied.

The problem, Dave Eiland told Sabathia, is that he was collapsing on his back leg during his delivery, which flattens out his pitches and really affects his off-speed and breaking balls. Considering how Sabathia reacted to last year’s Lakeland disaster – his regular-season was pretty good, no? – Joe Girardi isn’t particularly concerned.

“Every once in a while, you’re going to have a bad day,” Girardi said.

Sabathia’s audio is pretty interesting. Take a listen below.

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112 Responses to “A little deja vu for CC”

  1. Carl March 9th, 2010 at 4:53 pm

    CC is a joke. Hes not an ace/big game pitcher.

  2. Bruce March 9th, 2010 at 4:54 pm

    Great. Got one good year out of that contract.

    Hopefully he opts out when he can.

  3. Jerkface March 9th, 2010 at 4:56 pm

    I would trade CC straight up for Shin Soo Choo

  4. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 9th, 2010 at 4:57 pm

    Holden, you don’t consider 4 concussions in something like 5 years a lot ?

  5. Jerkface March 9th, 2010 at 4:59 pm

    Hughes wasn’t rushed. AAA is the least important stop on a minor leaguers journey and he had just made AAA that season. Injuries conspired against Hughes.

    Chamberlain and Kennedy both had college careers, Kennedy extensively so, and were not rushed.

    Chamberlain hit the innings limit and was brought up to get some innings and help the major league club. Kennedy was only a september call up. They were the victims of their own success.

    Hughes was the victim of injuries.

  6. Carl March 9th, 2010 at 4:59 pm

    Hopefully when A-Rod violated his contract, he violated CC’s also.

  7. blake March 9th, 2010 at 5:00 pm

    It takes CC awhile to get all that mass in sync but rest assured he will.

  8. Keep it March 9th, 2010 at 5:00 pm

    Time to bring up the best lefty in the system. Kei Igawa is the new staff ace.

  9. tampayank March 9th, 2010 at 5:02 pm

    it will be ‘just 1 game’ but I hope he has his good stuff on Opening Day at Fenway so I can still watch Sportscenter that week :)

  10. Jerkface March 9th, 2010 at 5:02 pm

    Consider that in AA in 2006, Hughes pitched 100 innings, was unhittable, and struck out 10 per 9. Then was even more unhittable in AAA at the beginning of the season and was called up. Did alright in his first start. Then was UNHITTABLE (notice a trend?) in his second major league start.

    Its a shame he got injured, and then had that stress fracture in his rib in 2008. Without those Hughes is our #2 right now.

    But he wasn’t rushed. Perfect world Hughes spends 2007 in the minors and enters 2008 with a chance to crack the rotation, but I think any major league team would have looked at 2007 as a year in which Hughes could pitch at the MLB level.

  11. Jerkface March 9th, 2010 at 5:03 pm

    If you wanna talk about a guy who was rushed, I’d say Melky Cabrera fits that description. But then I think the Yankees didn’t place a lot of long term emphasis on Melky.

    He just wasn’t a highly regarded prospect.

  12. uke March 9th, 2010 at 5:05 pm

    Some of you were dropped on your heads when you were little, only way to explain all the trash being talked about CC

  13. Bruce March 9th, 2010 at 5:07 pm

    uke
    March 9th, 2010 at 5:05 pm
    Some of you were dropped on your heads when you were little, only way to explain all the trash being talked about CC

    ———————

    He’ll be lucky to get 10 starts this season. Then the Yankees will spend the rest of the contract paying for his DL time from all the innings he gave other teams.

    We should have traded him this offseason and signed Marquis.

  14. Keep it March 9th, 2010 at 5:08 pm

    No, you just don’t realize Igawa’s ability to keep the ball up in the zone. You are the fool here.

  15. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! March 9th, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    The only thing that bothers me about CC’s outing is his comment about the Pirates. Not really classy. Certainly not Jeterian. Hopefully he doesn’t do that again. It’s one thing to think it. It’s quite another to come out and say it. Maybe CC need to learn the truism that any team can win on any given day – even the Pirates…

  16. randy l. March 9th, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    “Bringing those three kids up wasn’t by design, though. They were done because of emergency needs.”

    gb7-

    that’s the problem inherent in the yankees being the yankees. there is almost always emergency needs.

    what is the chance that a blue chip starter would make it through a whole minor league apprenticeship over a three to four year period and not have an emergency pop up with the parent team?

    i think when the yankees get a great starter pitching prospect, they need to make a commitment to keeping him in the minors until he’s chomping at the bit in the minors and is a complete pitcher with at least three plus pitches that he has command of.

    at no time should this kind of prospect be brought up for emergencies.

    aceves, gaudin, and mitre are paid to be abused. it’s part of the deal they sign.

    hughes, chamberlain , and kennedy should have been treated like the blue chip prospects they were.

    cashman does learn form his mistakes.

    i have no doubt he’ll bring up the next wave of really good starter prospects very differently than he did with joba, hughes, and kennedy.

  17. Jennifer March 9th, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    Bruce cannot possibly be serious.

  18. Jose March 9th, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    Is this Bruce guy serious?? LOL

  19. Jerkface March 9th, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    Igawa really pounds the vastly underutilizied upper portion of the strike zone.

    The ‘Kei Zone’ they call it.

  20. Carl March 9th, 2010 at 5:12 pm

    I agree with Bruce.

  21. Pat M. March 9th, 2010 at 5:13 pm

    Jerkface, Phil was only 19 when he was called up…And I’m with you 100% on where he’d be if not for some very strange injuries…..He’d be clearly the club’s 2 guy…..His rise thru the system was in light years, however some more seasoning back in 07 at Scranton would have served him very well…..The same is true for Joba and Ian….They sign, they pitch in Hawaii, then there in Yankee Stadium in 07, and did well…..Sometimes too much too soon has a negative effect regardless of rapid accomplishments, especially when you’re wearing the interlocking NY….It is what it is, and they move on with their careers…..Ian was great in his 2nd year at USC, had just nagging nicks during his Junior year, but was ready for pro ball when the Yanks came knocking

  22. Jerkface March 9th, 2010 at 5:13 pm

    Randy: I think it is unfair to place Hughes in that group. He was clearly unmatched at the minor league level and made it to AAA the season he was called up. He wasn’t going to learn much in AAA.

    I agree that Joba and Kennedy should have been kept in the minors longer, but not for developmental purposes but mental reasons. They needed some seasoning.

    Both were college pitchers though, and I think you’d find that a lot of college pitchers as highly regarded as those 2 make it through the minors quick.

  23. blake March 9th, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    Dr. James Andrews is on MLB channel in XM. Pretty interesting..

  24. Jerkface March 9th, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    Pat M, check again, Hughes was 21 when he made the show in 2007. There have been some comparisons to pettitte’s minor league time, but Andy only spent 3 seasons in the minors before being called up (Like Hughes), but the difference is that he pitched 169 innings in each damn season! Guy was a horse and that was before people got extra careful with their pitchers.

  25. Patrick March 9th, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    trisha,

    You’re right, Sabathia was wrong when he told the truth about the Pirates.

    They suck, what do you want him to say?

  26. GreenBeret7 March 9th, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    Matsui was 1-2 (single) and a strikeout on his first game of the spring.

  27. randy l. March 9th, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    “The only thing that bothers me about CC’s outing is his comment about the Pirates. ”

    what comments ?

  28. Patrick March 9th, 2010 at 5:21 pm

    I think trisha is assuming that Sabathia is implying that giving up 8 runs to a lowly team like the Pirates is something to be embarrassed about. Basically she’s making a lot of assumptions that Sabathia somehow made a subtle dig at the Pirates for being a bad team. Which they are..

  29. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! March 9th, 2010 at 5:22 pm

    He didn’t have to mention the Pirates at all. He could have made any kind of comment about his pitching, how he felt about it, etc. without besmirching the other team. It’s a matter of handling things in a fashion that does credit to the person as well as the organization he represents. I have to say honestly that it’s the first comment I remember reading where the player made comments trashing a team that is really a struggling team. It’s just wrong IMO.

    Patrick, being politic is actually an attractive thing.

  30. GreenBeret7 March 9th, 2010 at 5:23 pm

    I agree that they probably shouldn’t have beeb brought up to fill the needs, randy, but, it’s difficult not to try to fill a need when the alternatives of going outside of the system was tantamount to leagalized mugging.

  31. Jerkface March 9th, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    Trisha – which is more likely:

    1. CC dissed the pirates, oh snap!

    2. CC said that he doesn’t pay attention to results unless he gives up an inordinate amount of runs against *current opponent* (which happens to be the pirates)

  32. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 9th, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    Jerkface, I buy that injuries have killed Phil, but he never had to face adversity in the minors and I’ve also read that the Yankees rarely let him go more than 5 innings. It sounds like they babied him to the point where it just didn’t help him any. If he was not rushed, then why did Cash say that Phil would not be up until September 2007 at the earliest? Keep in mind that I am not blaming the Yankees for his injuries.

  33. GreenBeret7 March 9th, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    Rest In Peace, Willie Davis. You were one of the most under rated center fielders of your era.

  34. blake March 9th, 2010 at 5:25 pm

    Any ST start for CC in which he gets his pitches in and doesn’t get hurt should be considered a good one.

    How bout Nick Johnson, he’s just decided to hit bombs this year..forget walks.

  35. Patrick March 9th, 2010 at 5:25 pm

    trisha,

    Maybe being vanilla and politically correct and nice are attractive qualities to you. I prefer honesty and realness.

    The Pirates suck right now. I know it, you know it, CC knows it and the Pirates know it.

  36. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! March 9th, 2010 at 5:26 pm

    “I always say results don’t matter until I give up eight runs in two innings to the Pirates.”

    Patrick, if there’s a way to read that as a complimentary comment regarding the Pirates – or to read it any other way than implying that the Pirates are a “lowly” team, then I missed it.

  37. randy l. March 9th, 2010 at 5:27 pm

    “I think it is unfair to place Hughes in that group. He was clearly unmatched at the minor league level and made it to AAA the season he was called up. He wasn’t going to learn much in AAA”

    jerkface-

    he has two pitches.

    i’ll bet he could have mastered a third pitch if he’d stayed at the triple a level for another year.

    it’s not totally about getting triple a guys out. i think it’s obvious hughes had more to learn. you don’t just go b the results. you go by if he’s learning things he’ll need to be a #1 starter in the majors.

    hughes and joba may never reach their potential because of being rushed.

  38. Jerkface March 9th, 2010 at 5:27 pm

    Jerkface, I buy that injuries have killed Phil, but he never had to face adversity in the minors and I’ve also read that the Yankees rarely let him go more than 5 innings. It sounds like they babied him to the point where it just didn’t help him any. If he was not rushed, then why did Cash say that Phil would not be up until September 2007 at the earliest? Keep in mind that I am not blaming the Yankees for his injuries.

    I think there is a difference between THE PLAN, the change of plans, and rushing. Rushing is taking a A+ pitcher and sending him to the show.

    Hughes was in AAA. I don’t think they rushed him. There is a pretty good chance Hughes would NEVER face adversity in the minor leagues. His command and control and stuff was just too sick for a bunch of prospects and journeymen to handle.

    The only reason I would have kept him in the minors is to give him innings, which SHOULD NOT have been a problem had he not been injured.

    Joba and Kennedy completely dominated the minors and weren’t brought up for emergency reasons. Joba was already up against his limit, and Kennedy was just up for september and Kennedy was cleared for 200 IP in 2008.

    There was very little for Joba or Kennedy to learn in the minors, same as Hughes.

  39. Patrick March 9th, 2010 at 5:28 pm

    trisha,

    As Jerkface said, he could simply be using talking about the Pirates because that’s the team he faced.

    If he was implying that the Pirates are a bad team, who cares? We all know they suck, they themselves know they are a bad team. It’s like getting mad at CC for saying the sun is going to rise in the east tomorrow. It’s a straight up fact, why should it offend anyone?

  40. Pat M. March 9th, 2010 at 5:28 pm

    GB, My great tendency to hit high majestic tee shots that gradually found there way to the left rough ( sometimes deep rough ) afforded me the oportunity to meet many a hooker…Only a few of them did I share an after round drink with……Randy I, once I get the ok to start playing again, I’m taking up your rehab program approach…I will take my 9 iron with me though…..Jerkface, not sure how I missed that one on Phil…..I did think he was 20 when he came up, maybe I’m off my a few months…..21 is solid though…19 ???? no clue where that came from

  41. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! March 9th, 2010 at 5:28 pm

    Jerkface, if I read it wrong and he was just using “Pirates” as opponent then hell I have no problems with CC’s outing today! I was reading it as a shot at the Pirates – which to me is a lot more than “oh snap”.

  42. Rishi March 9th, 2010 at 5:30 pm

    I think hindsight is 20/20- was there a way in which CC could have phrased that sentence differently…yes. He didn’t think of it – it’s not like he’s sitting there preparing for these questions.

    I’m willing to let it pass as an off the cuff comment (could have been any team), rather than something with malicious intent

  43. Jerkface March 9th, 2010 at 5:30 pm

    he has two pitches.

    i’ll bet he could have mastered a third pitch if he’d stayed at the triple a level for another year.

    it’s not totally about getting triple a guys out. i think it’s obvious hughes had more to learn. you don’t just go b the results. you go by if he’s learning things he’ll need to be a #1 starter in the majors.

    We’re just going to have to disagree on this. Cole Hamels has done just fine with 2 pitches. Hughes, for whatever reason, has had trouble developing his changeup, but in the minors he has had a slider and a change up. He has used them in the majors.

    Without being in the minors he developed a completely new pitch last season (cutter).

    Sitting in the minors crapping all over AAA hitters was not going to benefit him.

    And I also disagree that Joba or Kennedy were rushed. The only PROBLEM I have with Joba coming up to the majors is that it got this whole bullpen crap in everyones head when he has always been a starter. I’d much rather Joba have been in the minors building innings as a starter until he failed, then worry about moving him to the bullpen.

    Thats not any consequence of the yankees bringing him to the majors though.

    At the end of the day, Hughes – Joba – Kennedy will be where they are based on their ability and desire.

  44. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 9th, 2010 at 5:30 pm

    We’re lucky Phil didn’t lose any of his stuff or that he didn’t suffer any arm injuries subsequent suffering the leg injuries. I really think his time is now – any more time spent in the pen is a waste of material.

  45. randy l. March 9th, 2010 at 5:32 pm

    “but, it’s difficult not to try to fill a need when the alternatives of going outside of the system was tantamount to leagalized mugging.”

    gb7-

    agree totally.

    but the yankees have to resist the temptation to bring up serious prospects too early.

    isn’t that why cashman is paid the big bucks ?

    to be able to make the tough decisions.

  46. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! March 9th, 2010 at 5:33 pm

    The more I read it, the more I am thinking that I may have misread it, now that the other possibility has been suggested. And I have to say that I didn’t see CC as someone who would trash another team. So CC, if I got it wrong I apologize for misjudging you.

    I’ll listen to the audio and would also appreciate Sam’s take if he has one.

  47. Patrick March 9th, 2010 at 5:33 pm

    I really hope CC was making fun of the Pirates

  48. GreenBeret7 March 9th, 2010 at 5:34 pm

    Pat M.
    March 9th, 2010 at 5:28 pm
    GB, My great tendency to hit high majestic tee shots that gradually found there way to the left rough ( sometimes deep rough ) afforded me the oportunity to meet many a hooker…Only a few of them did I share an after round drink with……Randy I, once I get the ok to start playing again, I’m taking up your rehab program approach…I will take my 9 iron with me though…..Jerkface, not sure how I missed that one on Phil…..I did think he was 20 when he came up, maybe I’m off my a few months…..21 is solid though…19 ???? no clue where that came from

    ————————————————————

    LMAO. I never hooked a shot in my life. Hard to hook 20 foot shots. Slicing shots are a different story, though. My problem was the taking 3 shots to get off of the ladies tee area.

  49. Pat M. March 9th, 2010 at 5:36 pm

    Hey guys, The Pirates are at 71 wins for 2010…..Over or under…I’m leaning on the overs….They not interleaguing with the AL East this season….That should save 3 losses I’d think…..I see the Bucs as a team on the rise……

  50. GreenBeret7 March 9th, 2010 at 5:36 pm

    randy l.
    March 9th, 2010 at 5:32 pm
    “but, it’s difficult not to try to fill a need when the alternatives of going outside of the system was tantamount to leagalized mugging.”

    gb7-

    agree totally.

    but the yankees have to resist the temptation to bring up serious prospects too early.

    isn’t that why cashman is paid the big bucks ?

    to be able to make the tough decisions.

    ————————————————————

    He made the decision and now, looking back, it was the wrong one. at the time, it was probably the correct decision for that year.

  51. Frank March 9th, 2010 at 5:37 pm

    Spring numbers are, as suggested by SJ44, fool’s gold, but Austin Jackson’s 7 for 13 with 5 walks is nonetheless impressive. Really hope it works out for the kid even though it’s going to have to happen elsewhere.

  52. MTU March 9th, 2010 at 5:37 pm

    Super-duper Announcement

    Today waas a a very happy day for me and should have been for many Yankee fans.

    Why is that, you say ?

    Because

    Today was the day that I became convinced that Jesus Montero
    is a catcher.

    I saw a guy with a strong accurate arm.

    I saw a guy who was agile and good at blocking balls.

    I saw a guy who made a very athletic play to try and tag out a runner at home.

    I saw a guy who had a good target and good frame for pitches.

    About the only “mistake” he made, if you even want to call it that was to show his position behind the plate a bit too soon. Perfectly correctable. Not a problem.

    This kid has the bat and now I know he is gonna stick at catcher.

    I’m not sure Heyward is the #1 prospect in baseball if it is certain that Montero is going to be a catcher.

    And he is. No doubt about it.

    I’m a happy man. :) :) :) :)

  53. Tim March 9th, 2010 at 5:38 pm

    um Carl, I assume that was sarcastic?

  54. Patrick March 9th, 2010 at 5:38 pm

    The Pirates are headed in the right direction but they will more than likely end up 5th or 6th in their division.

  55. Bronx Jeers March 9th, 2010 at 5:40 pm

    I used to play some golf as a student in Tucson.

    I remember losing a ball on one of those pitch n putts and going mano a mano with a bobcat to get it back.

    Or should I say mano a gato?

    The gato won by the way.

  56. Joe from Long Island March 9th, 2010 at 5:40 pm

    GB – Willie Davis is gone? When I was a lot younger, and just starting to follow the game, he was one of the best. He must have been in his late 60s, no? Another part of my youth, gone….

  57. Frank March 9th, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    UNDER 71 for the Pirates this year. Pitching is just plain bad. They’re starting to do some good things, but the up and coming pitching is lagging beyond the up and coming young bats.

  58. Carl March 9th, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    Tim March 9th, 2010 at 5:38 pm

    um Carl, I assume that was sarcastic?

    Yep

  59. Jerkface March 9th, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    I’m not sure Heyward is the #1 prospect in baseball if it is certain that Montero is going to be a catcher.

    no sorry Heyward is still #1 in baseball. But montero as a catcher is over any of the catcher prospects and mike stanton.
    So #2 prospect in baseball :)

  60. MTU March 9th, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    Bronx-

    “I remember losing a ball on one of those pitch n putts and going mano a mano with a bobcat to get it back.”

    The part you left out was that it was just a cub. :)

  61. GreenBeret7 March 9th, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    Willie Davis is dead at age 69? That’s way to young. Like another totally under rated and underappreciated center fielder of that time, Vada Pinson. Two great talents.

  62. MTU March 9th, 2010 at 5:42 pm

    Jerkface-

    whatever.

  63. Doreen - 2010 GTLU March 9th, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    In a way, Hughes, Joba and IPK were victims of their own talent and early success.

    And they were also in the right place but at the wrong time. At the beginning of the re-building of the minor league pitching system and at a time when the ML pitching was particularly thin.

    Circumstances often dictate what you end up doing. And when you’re the Yankees, and that win win win mentality is all there is – World Series or Bust – it just makes things worse.

    That is what Cashman deals with that no other GM does. Even the Red Sox operate on playoffs or bust. :)

  64. GreenBeret7 March 9th, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    Joe from Long Island
    March 9th, 2010 at 5:40 pm
    GB – Willie Davis is gone? When I was a lot younger, and just starting to follow the game, he was one of the best. He must have been in his late 60s, no? Another part of my youth, gone….

    ———————————————————–

    Yeah, Joe. He was just 69. He and Vada Pinson were two of the best center fielders that nobody knew anything about outside of La and Cincinnati.

  65. MTU March 9th, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    GB-

    I remember Vada Pinson.

    As a kid I thought he had an extremely cool name.

    Sort of like Vida Blue.

    Love those names that start with a V I guess.

  66. Pat M. March 9th, 2010 at 5:45 pm

    Man, I’ve watched this kid Heywood play and he’s a plus 5 tool guy….I’m not going to label him with a digit, but the little that I’ve seen of himm hh has the skills to be a major talent for this decade

  67. Patrick March 9th, 2010 at 5:45 pm

    MTU,

    Why is Montero better than Heyward?

    Educate yourself on Heyward before you tell me Montero is better. Heyward is a freaking beast at the plate. As good or better than Montero with the bat.

  68. Jerkface March 9th, 2010 at 5:47 pm

    Montero and Heyward are also the same age. They are going to be beastly hitters for years to come. Montero might end up with more pure power, but Heyward is more athletic.

  69. GreenBeret7 March 9th, 2010 at 5:47 pm

    MTU
    March 9th, 2010 at 5:44 pm
    GB-

    I remember Vada Pinson.

    As a kid I thought he had an extremely cool name.

    Sort of like Vida Blue.

    Love those names that start with a V I guess.

    ————————————————————

    Hell of a ball player. If he had played in NY or Chicago, he’d be in the HOF.

    You like “V” names? Is your name “Victrola”?

  70. MTU March 9th, 2010 at 5:47 pm

    Patrick-

    Whatever. I was getting carried away with what I saw from Montero today behind the plate.

    OK. so he is #2 , 0r #3.

    Whatever.

    He’s ours.

  71. Bronx Jeers March 9th, 2010 at 5:48 pm

    MTU,

    Bobacts are pretty small anyway. Not much bigger than a big house cat. They make up for it with attitude though. At least this one did.

  72. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! March 9th, 2010 at 5:50 pm

    Frank, they actually have some pretty good pitching in Duke and Maholm and Ross Ohlendorf. I think the problem they had in the past had as much to do with offense, so that some really good outings went by the book. If they can get some balance with offense (they do have some decent relief) then maybe they can be a team on the move.

  73. MTU March 9th, 2010 at 5:51 pm

    GB-

    No it’s Vito.

    Err, I mean Victor.

    No, no. It’s Vance.

    Yeah that’s it Vance.

    Call me Vance. :)

  74. randy l. March 9th, 2010 at 5:52 pm

    and gb7-

    i know it will be difficult, not mention painful to remember me saying way back the yankees should have signed livan hernandez for the fith spot, but rushing joba, hughes, and kennedy was one reason why i thought he was a better option.

    mitre, gaudin, and aceves provide the same veteran presence that livan would have.

    i just don’t think you should burn player development years of high level prospects to fill short term needs.

    now at this point hughes and joba are ready with all the haphazard experience they have accumulated from putting out fires for the yankees to take over the fifth spot as long as they still have the room to work on things.

    i would send the loser of the contest to the minors to be ready to start later when someone in the rotation goes down.

    the loser would be the next starter in line.

    i realize that’s not going to happen, but i still think it’d be the best thing to do.

  75. Jerkface March 9th, 2010 at 5:52 pm

    i would send the loser of the contest to the minors to be ready to start later when someone in the rotation goes down.

    the loser would be the next starter in line.

    i realize that’s not going to happen, but i still think it’d be the best thing to do.

    Second thing we’ve agreed on today, spooky.

  76. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! March 9th, 2010 at 5:53 pm

    I also forgot Jeff Karstens. They’re not the Yankees, but that isn’t a bad foursome.

  77. Doreen - 2010 GTLU March 9th, 2010 at 5:54 pm

    Do they still have Karstens? I’m not sure about that.

  78. RayVT March 9th, 2010 at 5:56 pm

    GB

    Pinson & Robinson were very good together on those Red’s teams.

  79. randy l. March 9th, 2010 at 5:56 pm

    “Love those names that start with a V I guess.”

    one of my favorites was Vinegar Bend Mizell.

    http://www.baseball-reference......html?redir

  80. Doreen - 2010 GTLU March 9th, 2010 at 5:56 pm

    Karstens was DFA’d after 2009 season and then out-righted to AAA when he cleared waivers. So, I guess he’s still in their system, but probably not in their immediate plans.

  81. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! March 9th, 2010 at 5:57 pm

    Doreen, I thought that I read he had pitched in ST this year.

  82. Jerkface March 9th, 2010 at 5:57 pm

    Do they still have Karstens? I’m not sure about that.

    He almost threw a perfect game for them last season. How embarassing would that be for Cashman? I think he’d have to resign!

  83. gayle March 9th, 2010 at 5:58 pm

    I think you are all mis-reading or mis-interpreting CC’s comment re Pirates. I believe he just said their name as that was who they played today. If they were playing the Phillies today I think the quote might have been the same quote just take out Pirates and insert Phillies.

  84. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day March 9th, 2010 at 5:58 pm

    I’ve said all along that the loser (who I assumed would be Phil, but it goes for Joba as well) should go to AAA, but the Yankees are going to make them set-up men, which is really foolish (unless they don’t give a fig about their future)

  85. Doreen - 2010 GTLU March 9th, 2010 at 5:59 pm

    Trisha -

    He is still in their system. Our posts crossed. :)

  86. randy l. March 9th, 2010 at 6:00 pm

    “Second thing we’ve agreed on today, spooky.”

    it might be the third.

    i might have to disagree with myself and rethink all my positions.

  87. Doreen - 2010 GTLU March 9th, 2010 at 6:01 pm

    Betsy -

    When Mike F interviewed Phil last week, Phil didn’t rule out AAA as a destination after ST. So maybe things are being said or going on within Yankee World that we don’t know about. :)

  88. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! March 9th, 2010 at 6:01 pm

    Maybe he isn’t in consideration. I don’t know their entire staff but I do know about Duke and Maholm and of course Ross Ohlendorf.

  89. GreenBeret7 March 9th, 2010 at 6:01 pm

    Pinson came out of the same high school and neighborhood in Oakland as Curt Flood, Frank Robinson, Joe Morgan and a few others. I believe Bill Russell was from the same high school.

  90. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! March 9th, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    gayle, I’m sure I got it wrong.

  91. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! March 9th, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    Well I think we’re pretty much all in agreement that we’d rather see Phil in AAA than in the pen.

  92. MTU March 9th, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    GB-

    “Pinson came out of the same high school and neighborhood in Oakland as Curt Flood, Frank Robinson, Joe Morgan and a few others. I believe Bill Russell was from the same high school.”

    That’s a lot of talent from one place.

    Whew !

  93. Pat M. March 9th, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    Randy I, I have this image that has been cultivated during the past 3 years….And the one guy that keeps coming to mind is Rick Dempsey…Now your photos do indicate that you’re much easier on a womens eyes that the Dempser…I had the chance to play with him briefly in Syracuse….My first game at short, he comes running out to the mound just to ream the pitcher for , get this , shaking off signs 3 times in one ab…..Otto Velez was the firstbaseman, who finally decised to sprint to the mound, and I’m just kinda of thinking this is between Demps and this pitcher….Then i sheepishly start jogging to the hill…..Demps looks at me, and barks at me, You waiting for a ….invitation ….Once I ran my tail off, he just gets into this guys face, chew is spraying all over this guys face…..I have to think there was no more shaking off old Rick…..I roomed one road weekend with him & McGreagor, they got the beds, I gladly took the rollaway….I just have alwqays thought that you were that type of catcher and ballplayer, especially after the other evening

  94. GreenBeret7 March 9th, 2010 at 6:06 pm

    randy l.
    March 9th, 2010 at 5:52 pm
    and gb7-

    i know it will be difficult, not mention painful to remember me saying way back the yankees should have signed livan hernandez for the fith spot, but rushing joba, hughes, and kennedy was one reason why i thought he was a better option.

    ————————————————————

    No, it wasn’t painful, Randy. I was thinking that there was a law against drawing social security and a paycheck over $50,000 a year.

    Some how, I knew you were going to get around to “He Who Shall Not Be Named”.

  95. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! March 9th, 2010 at 6:08 pm

    Doreen, as always, I want the little engine that couldn’t to become the little engine that could. :) This year’s little engines are certainly the Pirates and the Nats! I stuck with Tampa Bay through their most lean years because first of all someone’s gotta love them, and also because I saw some really talented players trying to play through some not-great situations and you just hurt for them because they all are trying to get to the same place.

    :)

  96. GreenBeret7 March 9th, 2010 at 6:08 pm

    MTU
    March 9th, 2010 at 6:05 pm
    GB-

    “Pinson came out of the same high school and neighborhood in Oakland as Curt Flood, Frank Robinson, Joe Morgan and a few others. I believe Bill Russell was from the same high school.”

    That’s a lot of talent from one place.

    Whew !

    ————————————————————

    No kidding and all about the same age. That’s quite an athletics program for a high school.

  97. Doreen - 2010 GTLU March 9th, 2010 at 6:09 pm

    Oddly, I think that randy l was right about Livan a couple of years ago…

  98. Doreen - 2010 GTLU March 9th, 2010 at 6:13 pm

    Trisha,

    The Rays are all grown up now. :)

    When I first became a baseball fan, the Mets were the team I followed, and I got to see the PIrates a lot. Plus, Ralph Kiner, one of their broadcasters, was a former Pirate, so I got to hear a lot of old Pirate stories. They were a wonderful team. A Strong team. A team with l lots of great players. It has been attrocious what has happened to that franchise over the last almost 2 decades. I hope they turn it around. It’s would be great for PIttsburgh, great for the Pirates and great for baseball.

    The Nats? I think they’ll be fine and I don’t have as much emotion toward them. To me, they are a new team and they will come around. Their owners spend money, they’re in a good area. I guess it’s all about history. :)

  99. Doreen - 2010 GTLU March 9th, 2010 at 6:13 pm

    Trisha,

    The Rays are all grown up now. :)

    When I first became a baseball fan, the Mets were the team I followed, and I got to see the PIrates a lot. Plus, Ralph Kiner, one of their broadcasters, was a former Pirate, so I got to hear a lot of old Pirate stories. They were a wonderful team. A Strong team. A team with l lots of great players. It has been attrocious what has happened to that franchise over the last almost 2 decades. I hope they turn it around. It’s would be great for PIttsburgh, great for the Pirates and great for baseball.

    The Nats? I think they’ll be fine and I don’t have as much emotion toward them. To me, they are a new team and they will come around. Their owners spend money, they’re in a good area. I guess it’s all about history. :)

  100. austinmac March 9th, 2010 at 6:14 pm

    Vada Pinson and Frank Robinson. Those were two tremendous players for the Reds.

    I remember while I was a little leaguer that Joey Jay was the first former little leaguer to make it to the majors. I saw my path.

  101. GreenBeret7 March 9th, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    Pat M.
    March 9th, 2010 at 6:05 pm
    Randy I, I have this image that has been cultivated during the past 3 years….And the one guy that keeps coming to mind is Rick Dempsey…Now your photos do indicate that you’re much easier on a womens eyes that the Dempser…I had the chance to play with him briefly in Syracuse

    ————————————————————

    speaking of Rick Dempsy, but, did you see Greg Zahn’s interview on TV last night? Funny stuff. He was asked what he and his uncle Rick Dempsy talked about as he was growing up. Zahn said all we talked about was catching, catching, catching, and that really helped him on everything but his tarp sliding. He was then asked if Uncle Rick helped him with his hitting and Zahn said, “Why in the world would I ask him about hitting? He can’t hit.”

  102. Erica - always OPPC March 9th, 2010 at 6:16 pm

    new thread :arrow:
    Wrapping it up

  103. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day March 9th, 2010 at 6:17 pm

    Doreen, I don’t actually think that’s true, but we’ll see. I make no bones about it – I want Phil to outright win this spot.

  104. randy l. March 9th, 2010 at 6:18 pm

    thanks pat.

    that’s a high compliment for a semi pro player and bullpen catcher.

    dempsey was always one of my favorites.

    wasn’t he traded in that massive trade with the yankees and orioles?

  105. Doreen - 2010 GTLU March 9th, 2010 at 6:18 pm

    Betsy -

    I would like to see Phil in #5 too. I think if Phil said it, it must have at least be floated out there. Anyway, there’s a few short weeks to go…

    :)

  106. Pat M. March 9th, 2010 at 6:20 pm

    Randy ,I just think you guys were cut from the same mold…Then again most catchers are, very different cats

  107. GreenBeret7 March 9th, 2010 at 6:25 pm

    austinmac
    March 9th, 2010 at 6:14 pm
    Vada Pinson and Frank Robinson. Those were two tremendous players for the Reds.

    I remember while I was a little leaguer that Joey Jay was the first former little leaguer to make it to the majors. I saw my path.

    ————————————————————

    I think every kid in Little League saw the same path. Most of us wandered off and got lost in the woods.

    I remember Jay shooting his mouth off after beating the Yanks in Game @2 of the ’61 WS and yammering at length that the Series was over and NYY wouldn’t finish better than 4th in the NL.

    He was right, though. The Series was over. NYY took the next three games and closed it out in Game #5 with a 13-5 shellacking against, you guessed it, Joey Jay. He couldn’t be found after the game.

  108. Pat M. March 9th, 2010 at 6:28 pm

    next page >>>>

  109. GreenBeret7 March 9th, 2010 at 6:29 pm

    randy l.
    March 9th, 2010 at 6:18 pm
    thanks pat.

    that’s a high compliment for a semi pro player and bullpen catcher.

    dempsey was always one of my favorites.

    wasn’t he traded in that massive trade with the yankees and orioles?

    ————————————————————

    Yeah, NYY took a bath in that deal. Dempsey, Scotty McGregor, Rudy May, Tippy Martinez and others for Ken Holtzman, Doyle alexander and the immortal Elrod Hendricks.

  110. Pat M. March 9th, 2010 at 6:37 pm

    GB, That was george pushing Gabe Paul into a panic depth trade…Grant Jackson & Paul Blair were also involved…..All aging ballplayers, for the cornerstone for Baltinore’s club in the 80′s ( 1979 as well )

  111. champ809 March 9th, 2010 at 6:52 pm

    Jerkface

    Joba and IPK were definitely rushed and mishandled as far as their development is concerned.

    Hughes was also as his apprenticeship is incomplete…he would be better of with a full season of developing his third pitch(change and rediscovering his slider as well) and if we can’t afford to allow him to do that on the ML level because “we have to win now at all costs” then he should have stayed in the minors doesn’t matter if he was pitching to a .50era and avg. 12ks/9 unitl he had those 3-4 plus pitches and the arm strength and innings the HE”S NOT READY!

    Same with Joba he spent all of four months in the minors and never pitched more than 115 innings in college the two years he was there. The talk is that Joba hasn’t perfected a repeatable delivery yet and that is what he needs to work on. That is exactly what is “taught” at the minor league level and not at the major league level. HE WAS WITHOUT A DOUBT RUSHED and is now unfairly expected to be perfect as though he’s a polished starter and it’s totally unfair. The worst part is rather than admitting the mistake made with him the team seems to want to sweep it under a rug and just throw him in the ‘pen under the guise that he “looks” betterr when he comes out of the pen than in the ‘ro.
    I agree that the most damaging result of the success Joba had that Aug./Sept. was that it began this whole idiotic “debate” of ‘ro vs. ‘pen with Joba which I think was and is a mistake.

    The Rays for example have been much better about their pitchers making the level by level climb and innings build and as a result as of right now are in a better positon with regards to the readiness and development of their young starters.

  112. Benny Blanco March 9th, 2010 at 9:56 pm

    WOW!!!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related

    just found this….its an interview..with alex and derek together. I never seen this.

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