Some evening potpourri
Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Mar 10, 2010 
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• I’ve never quite understood the whole “sign a one-day contract and then retire” thing but that’s what Nomar Garciaparra did today and, according to Johnny Damon, it was a “classy move” by both the Red Sox and Garciaparra. Apparently the wounds from 2004 have healed and, now that he’s retired, we’ll all be seeing Nomar again on ESPN.
When some of us asked Damon which team he would do such a thing with when it came time to retire, he went quiet for a second, then shrugged and said, “I guess my longest tenure is with the Royals – and I haven’t played there in 10 years!”
Amazingly, he’s right – six years in KC, two in Oakland, four in Boston and now four in New York for the well-traveled Johnny.
• Torii Hunter is one of my favorite players – both to watch play and interview – and his overall point about African-American players in baseball is a reasonable one to bring up. It just didn’t come out particularly well, as you can see in this story, and even Hunter knows it.
• Joe Torre is off in Taiwan with part of the Dodgers team so Don Mattingly is the interim manager in Arizona. In an interview this afternoon, Donnie Baseball revealed that the Dodgers have talked with him about eventually becoming Torre’s replacement. Remember when the Yankees were choosing between Mattingly and Joe Girardi? Seems like a long time ago now, doesn’t it?
• Unfortunate situation involving the Rays pitcher David Price today. Seems he was hit on the hand by a shattered maple bat, though he was lucky and will escape needing stitches. “It was more of a scare than anything else,” Price said, according to The AP. “I don’t really remember what happened, to be honest. Tried to make a play on the ball and I guess out of the corner of my eye I saw the bat and just threw my hands up. Could have been a lot worse than what it is right now.”
Joe Maddon said what a lot of people around the game are thinking, likening the maple bat to the Claymore Mine, which was an explosive in use since World War II. Maple bats have shown an incredible propensity toward shattering, and their shards are very, very dangerous. “If we’re going to wait for someone to actually get killed or impaled,” Maddon said, “we’re going to wait way too long. Something has to be done.”
• Finally, Major League Baseball announced PED suspensions for several minor leaguers, including two from the Yankees Dominican Summer League team. Josue Rodriguez and Israel Tolentino will both serve 50-game bans for testing positive.
—-
That’s it for tonight. Thanks to everyone for reading and commenting on a long day. Back at it tomorrow, though the clubhouse won’t open until around 1:30 p.m. because it’s a night game. Check in early and often, though, for a few other items before we get to Yankees-Braves.
I will never forget Nomar sitting on the bench hands on head while everyone was in the game or standing on the top step watching the game. He wasn’t even paying attention. Giambi attempted to bat on one leg. That is my lasting impression of him. Another lasting impression was Millar along with another red sox on tv laughing and excited as anything to toss Normar out and get Alex. Now it is a love fest. I don’t care that that happened years ago i found it to be hogwash.
I don’t think signing a one day contract magically enables a player to retire as a member of a team, but it’s like a legal fiction.
The first time I can remember that happening is when Mark Collins did it with the NYG, but I could be wrong.
hmmm…wonder if they will do the same for Manny when the time comes
I grew up in the bronx, So I grew up a Yankee fan. But as a kid Nomar Garciaparra was my favorite hitter, Pedro Martinez was my favorite pitcher and Manny Ramirez was my favorite player go figure lol, But I could never bring my self to root for Boston.
nomar is not even on the same planet as jeter
he might be a nice guy but like i said not on the same planet as jeter
In his prime, Nomar was a better player than Jeter, you would of been stupid not to have seen that.
Unlkke A-Rod and Jeter, Nomar didn’t hold up physically.
“In his prime, Nomar was a better player than Jeter, you would of been stupid not to have seen that.”
Thats a very debatable statement. Nomar was a better pure hitter for a very short period of time than Jeter but you could make a strong case that Jeter was better at every other facet of the game. Plus there are many suspicions that Nomar wasn’t exactly “all natural” so to speak. Jeter has had a much much better career.
How many years was he great? Also how was he great? hmm.
Even as a Sox fan I don’t think I would ever argue that Nomar was a better player than Jeter.
But if Nomar wants to “retire” as a Red Sox and the front office is okay with that then what harm is done?
Nomar probably was slightly better than Jeter for a while, but mostly because he hit with more power.
Thanks guys for the big welcome back. I really missed all the Yankee coverage and chatting with the LoHud gang.
I ended up getting a huge blood clot in my calf in early Dec and then my condition regressed to the point that I could hardly move my extremities for several weeks and rotted in an “extended care facility” for over a month until another doc decided to treat me.
It took five weeks and a lot of blood, sweat, and tears to get to the same physical point I was at the end of Nov.
Just glad to be back reading LoHud and talking Yankee Baseball.
Giuseppe- OMG Glad you are doing better.
Giuseppe Franco – I was very happy to see your post in the last thread. I was wondering where you were, and am happy you’re back in action here on the blog. Welcome back.
And, that’s it for me. Got to get up at 5 in the AM tomorrow. Good night, all.
PS – I still haven’t forgiven Maddon for that stupid play that broke Cervelli’s wrist two years ago, but on this one he’s right – MLB needs to ban those maple bats. It’s already ridiculous, and somebody’s going to get hurt badly.
agree with sam, not that it matters much or im gonna lose any sleep over it, but the one-day contract to retire as a sox is ridiculous. besides, how does what team you ‘retire from’ make any differnece anyway. babe ruth ‘retired’ from the dodgers didnt he? willie randolph ‘retired’ as an A, i believe. it means nothing other than who you played your last game for, which is not changed by a one day contract where you dont play and arent on the roster.
I’m glad that you are doing better, GF.
Didn’t Jeff Nelson do the same thing so he could retire a Yankee? And didn’t the fans not exactly like Nelson at the end?
It’s really no big deal. Fences are mended and everyone is happy, and Nomar goes to work for ESPN.
Abstract: A baseball bat having a sleeve surrounding a portion of the narrow exterior surface of the bat for prevention of scattering of splinters and wood projectiles should the bat shatter during use. The sleeve is formed of wound fabric and secured mechanically at both ends to the exterior surface of the bat. The securement using a groove or ridge and traverse fibers engaged with the sleeve allows the sleeve to stretch and absorb energy and prevents a total separation of the heavy end of the bat from the handle from becoming airborne where it could cause serious injury. (end of abstract)
See http://www.freshpatents.com/-d.....325738.php
Maybe a proper safety coating could prevent these accidents and still allow maple bats to be used.
Giuseppe Franco:
Glad you’re back. Stay strong.
there is no need for maple bats, until about 1985 im pretty sure there were almost none in use in the majors. i think they are going to have to regulate the thickness of the bat handle as well as outlaw maple bats and go back to ash. putting anythin on the outside of the bat will effect the flight of the ball.
Little League bats used to have that protective fiberglass type coating when I was a kid…Maple Bats by nature are an issue & I suspect they’ll be gone by the next Labor Agreement
I see the Yankees came back to win. Nice. Even though it doesn’t mean anything. haha.
It’s a nice little moment for the Red Sox Nation (not the biggest by far, Nomar!). I hope they enjoy it. In fact, I hope it’s the highlight of 2010 (no offense to ray!). Got no problem with athletes doing it. Jerry Rice, among others, have done it. No big deal.
Signor Franco,
Good to see you back in your natural environs. Sounds like you had a rough road there. Mind over body, eh?
Didn’t the Yanks and Jeff Nelson do the same thing?
Welcome back Giuseppe Franco!
Sadly, there are many players similiar to Johnny that are men without a clear team identity. Johnny was such a face of the 2004 Sox that I would think that’s how most people would classify him. Interesting that’s not how he would classify himself.
Torii does like to chat. Scott Boras should whisper to him from his cave behind homeplate that none of his clients sign for a bag of chips whether they are born in Santo Domingo or Santa Ana. Scott doesn’t see black, white or shades in between- just green.
I think of Damon as a KC Royal.
Sam
As a latin man, Hunter’s comments did not offend me one bit. I totally got what he was saying. It was not offensive at all.
Is there a big brouhaha? I heard Brian Kinney talking about Bradley, Hunter, and Derek Anderson.
He said that Anderson (who said something about fans who were booing him when he got hurt) said that his words weren’t taken out of context. It’s just that he was frustrated.
So Kinney was saying athletes don’t need to apologize for saying what they obviously feel, but they do need to take ownership (which Anderson did).
I think of Damon as a Red Sock. He epitomized that 2004
team.
Perhaps the Sox should talk Nomar out of retirememt..they could use his bat.
By the way, when teams do these ceremonial one day contracts do they have to pay the player anything..like a prorated league minimum?
People shouldn’t apologize for their comments because almost always the apology is insincere and made for the wrong reasons.
By retiring, the player forfeits the contract.
Why is Damon more a RS than a Yankee?
He played on both teams for four years and won a ring with each.
“In his prime, Nomar was a better player than Jeter, you would of been stupid not to have seen that.”
i saw garciaparra play in orleans in the cape league often and he was about 135 pounds.
he looked like this:
http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivaul.....aparra.jpg
nomar was 21-22 years old then. he was not a high school kid going through puberty.
he became the incredible hulk in two years.
it was in the middle of the steroid period.
what conclusion is any reasonable person to make?
the red sox dumped nomar because he didn’t fit in with their philosophy and nomar quit on them at the end.
lucchino is a slimeball.
nomar was a heavy steroid user who didn’t get caught.
watching them make like nomar was some kind of legacy player and part of a great red sox tradition is a joke.
the yankees have great real players who retire and carry on the yankee tradition.
nomar and lucchino are just trying to make something that was never real in the first place into a good thing.
i see as much good coming out of their reunion as a couple who gets back together after a bitter divorce for the sake of the grandkids.
pretty soon they remember what they didn’t like about each other the first time around.
I agree, Nomar may well have been a ‘roider, but that’s true of so many players, that I look past it.
Growing up in the bronx I’ve always hated Noma. Granted, a lot of my “hatred” was fueled by the fact I was in my teens. Nomar was a great short stop, and when I was younger I often had to argue about Nomar vs Jeter with various Met fans intent on discrediting Jeter. The argument was always the same they would point out numbers I’d point out intangibles and Jeter’s comparable numbers.
I’m not saying I’m happy Nomar declined but apart of me is happy that no one can dispute Jeter is better the shortstop.
Sorry, but, claymore mines have been in use only since Vietnam. All anti-personnel mines are not the same.
Because he was a Red Sock first. Because he epitomized that 2004 team. They took on his personality. The Yankees didn’t take on Damon’s personality. They’re much bigger than Damon.
JohnM,
Great shots in the Lakeland photo album! Yankees.com posted a bootleg video of Tex’s HR. But no visual evidence of Granderson’s catch yet.
Yankee fans should not rip Nomar. He was a great player. He never played defense like Jeter but in his prime, Nomar was one of the best hitters in the game. He didn’t have the durability of Jeter, but Nomar was Jeter’s equal and in his best years ’99 and ’00 was better than Jeter.
GB-
“All anti-personnel mines are not the same.”
You’re absolutely right.
Coal mines are the worst by far.
Damon was credited with loosening the clubhouse atmosphere and helping recruit CC and others. I think we’re splitting hairs.
randy i,
amen.
honestly, outside of the super sluggers, bonds, sosa and big mac, was there ever a more obvious case of steroid usage than nomar? he went from a lead off hitter to a guy who couldn’t keep his ligaments on his body.
oh yeah, and big papi.
‘“If we’re going to wait for someone to actually get killed or impaled,” Maddon said, “we’re going to wait way too long. Something has to be done.”’
Unless that someone is Kevin Youkilis.
Interesting but, disturbing read by the ever-talkative Torii Hunter. He talks too much about everything and that’s why writers like him. He gives them stories.
Face facts, though…that’s some pretty screwed up thinking. If Hunter was white, Selig would have had him in front of his desk today. Those remarks were as stupid and insensitive as those of Al Campanis’ remarks 25 years ago.
Brett Boone and Brady Anderson.
Personality wise, he was more a Red Sock than a Yankee.
I think someone brought this up a while ago. Damon helped bring 86 years of misery to an end. Didn’t have some heroic moments in 2004? (that year is missing from my memory).
I’m not trying to convince you, just trying to explain my rationale.
“It’s really no big deal. Fences are mended and everyone is happy, and Nomar goes to work for ESPN.”
doreen -
i disagree. nomar was a fraud as a player.
because he didn’t get caught doesn’t change anything.
once testing was in place he was done.
if this is all about cleaning him up for espn it makes sense from his and their point of view, but it’s all a facade. no way nomar was a clean player and no way was there anything friendly with him and red sox management.
i don’t look at him any differently than i look at mcguire.
I saw Nomar a couple times at the gym where I work out(or try to). Two observations–he was smaller in height and bulk than I expected and he seemed friendly and unassuming. He was happy,it seemed, just to be a guy at the gym.
OK, but when I think of the poster boy for that 2004 fiasco, it’s Dave Roberts.
blake,
luis gonzalez. 57 hrs?
“Brett Boone and Brady Anderson.”
Trot Nixon
Champ, Phil’s change did not go 430 feet; he threw 2 change ups to get behind 3-1 and then threw a fat pitch that was NOT a change.
Guiseppe Franco, how are you? We really missed you around here – we’re so glad to have you back.
Nomar going to work for ESPN will be awkward in the sense that steroids is an underlying topic of interest.
“So, Nomaah, in your experience…”
“I agree, Nomar may well have been a ‘roider, but that’s true of so many players, that I look past it.”
jeter didn’t use steroids.
nomar did.
what are we talking about here?
“If we’re going to wait for someone to actually get killed or impaled,” Maddon said, “we’re going to wait way too long. Something has to be done.”
Great quote. Couldn’t have said it better myself.
Seriously people insulting Nomar and accusing him of Roids? You guys and gals serious? the Yankees have A-Rod on the squad. Should any Yankee fan criticize guys for alleged steroid use. That makes us look like we have blinders on.
I’m an A-Rod fan by the way but I’m not going to criticize players for taking steroids after al the guys the Yankees have had on their team. That’s just plain hypocritical.
lol, Rich.
One other thing. A commercial ran for a while. DHL? Something where he takes off his “beard” to send to the HOF?
Funny as all hell, but that image was a lasting one.
The only thing wrong with maple bats is the same thing that’s wrong with other wooden bats. They explode /break because they are thin handled and big barrelled with the bottom of the barrel cupped out. They take it further by complete removing all of the moisture from the wood to make them even lighter. It’s like using balsa wood.
Opinions welcome:
BP 1
Mo
Marte
Joba
Robertson
Aceves
Park
Gaudin
Versus
BP 2
Mo
Marte
Roberston
Aceves
Park
Gaudin
Mitre/Logan
How much worse would you say BP 2 would be than BP 1, or would it be ?
“March 10th, 2010 at 11:01 pm
“Brett Boone and Brady Anderson.”
Trot Nixon”
roger clemens
randy
“jeter didn’t use steroids.”
nomar did.
what are we talking about here?”
I wouldn’t bet my life or money on the fact that any player in MLB never dabbled with some type of PED. Not one.
Tripps
Some Yankee fans just want all steroid users outed. Helps them fight the good fight with non-Yankee fan friends.
Here’s another thing to ponder.
Right now.
Who’s a better reliever.
Joba or Robertson ?
Johnny Damon is a Yankees!!!
(Erica steps away from the microphone now)
“Should any Yankee fan criticize guys for alleged steroid use”
Why not? A-Rod admitted he used after his constitutional rights were violated due to a selective leak.
Not many players have been as candid.
Here’s what I’m thinking.
If Robertson and Joba are Approximately equivalent right now.
And you believe that Robertson can share the eigth inning role with marte.
Then why not send Joba to AAA to get a Nardi tuneup, etc. if Joba does not get the #5 job ?
I dont see a lot of downside to doing so ?
Shoot it down.
Pat,
I think people throw out steroids right away because the convo was about Jeter vs. Nomar, and Nomar’s better years eclipsed all of Jeter’s best years so they got defensive. Nomar was better than Jeter but than the injuries got him and Jeter stayed consistent.
Yankees love to defend captain.
That’s now why. Some players have shown all the signs of being ‘roiders. Nomar is one of them.
rich, if by candid, you mean ‘made up a completly ridiculous story that only a moron would believe,’ then yes, he was very candid…
Y’s Guy
Because you need every freakin’ detail in order to satisfy your what, um..insatiable curiosity?
He admitted his used.
Compared to his peers, like Ortiz or Manny, he was very candid.
I think you’re projecting.
Correction: Damon only played one season in Oakland, not two!
i didnt want any details at all rich, i think he would have been much better had he just stopped after saying he did use. adding the moronic story about his cousin just made him look like a fool and a bad liar.
Tripps…Monar re-invented himself in a freakish way, much like Bonds, Sosa, Brady Anderson, Big Mac, Clemens, Gagne etc….Look up his S.I. cover picture and then tell me ….I remember seeing him play for John Bosco HS and he was a good smallish type SS…Frankly I thought he would have been moved over to 2nd when he hit Pro ball, but he had a great arm…..He was a good guy from all reports
If Nomar really did steroids, is it that big of a deal? If anything him doing steroids is only fair, since it would have put him on equal footing with A-rod. Battle of the chemically enhanced short stops!
No, seriously, steroids or not Nomar could flat out hit the ball. I don’t think he was a one dimensional juicer always hitting dingers.
Maybe he did roids, maybe he didn’t. At this point, who cares?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaRyLKLHwro
The only reason I semi-liked Nomar when I was younger was because he did a commercial with Jeter lol
Boy who blocked his own shot is dead on. Nomar could rake with anyone in the game steroids or not. Doesn’t matter, he still was great.
“I wouldn’t bet my life or money on the fact that any player in MLB never dabbled with some type of PED. Not one.”
so you think there’s a possibility that jeter use steroids ?
great use of that rational brain you have there.
enjoy your numbers while following all those players who you don’t care one way or the other if they use peds.
Y’s Guy
As if that would have satisfied the mediots.
Context is everything. Considering that he was outed in violation of a court order, singled out because of his stature in the game, that most of the users in MLB have been able to retain their anonymity, and that the ones who have been outed like Ortiz have received no real scrutiny despite being far, far, far less candidate than A-Rod, I think coming down on A-Rod is really an exercise in bizarre moralization.
randy
Yes, I think it’s possible that Jeter or Mo or any other player in MLB used PEDs.
Are they sacrosanct? Should they be beatified?
Oh wait, because I don’t agree with you, you stoop to insults. Way to go, dude.
You don’t know. I don’t know.
nomar after:
http://pridepostgazette.com/sp.....trated.jpg
Garciaparra was as much a product of Fenway Park as Rico Petrocelli was or Mike Pagliarulo was of Yankee Stadium.
Tripps78
March 10th, 2010 at 11:18 pm
Pat,
I think people throw out steroids right away because the convo was about Jeter vs. Nomar, and Nomar’s better years eclipsed all of Jeter’s best years so they got defensive. Nomar was better than Jeter but than the injuries got him and Jeter stayed consistent.
Yankees love to defend captain.
————————–
Tripps,
I believe you are overstating Nomar in his prime over Jeter. You said before that 99 and 00 Nomar was better than Jeter. 2000, no question.
However, in 1999 offensively in terms of value it is pretty much a wash. Nomar hit for slightly more power with 3 more HRs and 5 more doubles and a slightly higher AVG beating Jeter by 8 points.
Jeter had 4 more triples, 5 more SBs, and had a 20 point advantage in OBP. They had equivalent OPS+.
You factor in defense and Derek is the clear cut better player in 1999.
And just to add some context to that, in 1999 Jeter’s WAR was 8.0 while Nomar’s WAR was 6.5.
Randy I.
He doesn’t look freakish there in that SI cover. His body looks great. Maybe he was a gym rat, in fact you have to be a workout nut to get that body even if you are taking steroids. You can pack on weight though that’s why this its so hard to accuse. Do I think he did steroids? Probably, but so what, he still rocked.
Nomar’s two highest WAR years were 1998 with 7.3 and 2000 with 7.3.
Jeter’s two highest WAR years were 1998 with 7.8 and 1999 with 8.0.
puleeese, spare me the ‘arod is the victim’ b.s.. he used, he got caught, he made up another riduculous story, just like so many others. its not the end of the world, he’s not the first or last ped user to get caught and it doesnt mean hes not a great player.
what kills me is when yankees fans point the finger at other team’s ped users. it just makes yankees fans look like fools when they do that.
Oh my 1997-2000 were hall of fame years that Nomar put up. Jeter’s never had a year like 1998 (35HR, 122RBI, 209H, .306AVG, .946OPS, 365 total bases). Jeter doesn’t produce that type of power and run production. I’m not even going to mention ’99 and ’00 when Nomar leads the league in hitting.357 and .372 averages. Combine that with Nomar’s power, Jeter can’t dream of years like that.
It’s no slight on Jeter, he just can’t do that.
“Jeter can’t dream of years like that.”
——————————-
Nomar’s two highest WAR years were 1998 with 7.3 and 2000 with 7.3.
Jeter’s two highest WAR years were 1998 with 7.8 and 1999 with 8.0.
http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivaul.....aparra.jpg
nomar as pedroia
if nomar played natural, he’d have had a nice career, but he would’t have hit 30 home runs as a 23 year old in his second year in the big leagues.
Here’s what I think any player in MLB could have done.
Similar to Pettitte, they may have done HGH merely to help them get over an injury in order to stay on the field so as not to let their teammates down.
I draw a distinction between that and major ‘roiders.
nomar would trade his career for jeter’s every day of the week if he was being honest.
Jeter’s 1999 season was tremendous. That’s why I hate when people talk about his intangibles. It detracts from how good he has been in a very tangible way.
“Do I think he did steroids? Probably, but so what, he still rocked.”
nothing is worse than arguing with idiots who make the very point they are arguing against.
wait, rich, which pettitte story are we believing now, the first one where he said he never used, the second one, where he told the press he only used once, honest, or the one he told when under oath?
Randy I…
ITs easy steroids… I dont give a damn about. You go waste your time thinking about athletes are doing. Ill enjoy the games…. Loser
And another thing dude. If you dont like steroids and what its done to the “purity of the game” and all that other nonsense…. don’t watch… Most of these guys are jacked up on something. What world are you living in
tripps,take steroids completly out of the equation and jeter is still a better player than nomar. not even close.
Whoa, some of the inmates have escaped….Call security….
I will say this about Nomar.
I had the opportunity to meet and hang out with Nomar on several occasions and he was a genuinely nice and down to earth guy (which is more than I can say for his wife Mia – sorry Nomar).
I certainly don’t doubt he cheated (steroids) along with the rest of them… but at least he was a nice cheater
i always kinda liked nomar, despite him being a red sox and despite the unfortunate glove and shoe dance he did between pitches. he always struck me as a guy who worked hard and gave it all for his team. and he always came off as a nice guy.
Y’s Guy
Yes, by and large, I believe Andy Pettitte.
I see a troubling pattern with your posts.
p.s. welcome back Giuseppe – glad to hear you’re doing better and hopefully on the road to full recovery.
ok so you believe pettitte, who admitted he lied twice about his ped usage, you believed arod’s story about his cousin, but you see a troubling pattern with MY posts?!?
boston dave-
i liked nomar too.
he could have been good without the juice.
i just think the guys who used a lot should stay in the background.
nothing is more annoying than hearing someone like mcguire say all his home runs were legit.
” What world are you living in”
a better one than you live in.
Y’s Guy
You’re missing the forest for the trees.
Why do details matter? Are you laying a perjury trap?
The point is that they admitted their usage unlike most of their peers.
Jeez.
Oh, Torii. What size is your foot?
I know he didn’t mean to say that about Latinos being imposters.
He might have been better off not saying anything because from my POV he’s totally off base.
The fact is that black athletes gravitate towards football and basketball.
Inoa, Chapman, and the all-glove SS all signed for a bag of chips?
I don’t see white people grumbling about percentages in football or basketball.
Y’s guy….I think what Rich in NJ is saying and very accurately I believe, is that you’re all over the place with your comments..It’s hard to get a read as to where you really stand on this issue…..There’s no right or wrong life depending answer on this, but drop the tude though….No body here is trying to convict you of a crime…..Too much street fighting here at night…
rich, i’m sorry i cant fulfill your need to argue ridiculously throughout the night tonight as i have to go to bed. you will have to choose someone else to be your designated arguee tonight, as i see you do most nights.
try to stop being a lawyer every once in a while and your life will be alot less stressfull, and so will the lives of the other lat night readers of this blog.
m, did you see Kobe’s buzzer winner last night ???? And the no flinch reaction the other night vs. Orlando’s thug Barnes ??? He was a punk when he was at UCLA, but took it to a higher level in the Pro’s…..7 teams in 7 years speaks volumnes
First off I’d like to say Jeter is by far the better player, even when Nomar was in his prime. Things to consider about Nomar imo have nothing to do with needles — I remember always hearing about how he was a prima donna and felt an air of entitlement for what he did. As mentioned earlier the lasting image of Nomar is him pouting in the dugout while Jeter exits the field with a bruised face. Granted the Red Sox treated Nomar unfairly but I never thought it eas a coincidence how drastically the red sox improved without him.
I don’t know Nomar personally obviously but I always felt like he lacked in character. Again I’ve always been bias when it came to Nomar so maybe that doesn’t mean much.
Also I don’t think Nomar becoming more lean has to be steroids — after all he is married to another word class athlete its safe to assume they both spent a lot of time training and were both probably gym rats.
You know I pulled an all-nighter with Rich the other night. But for the life of me I can’t remember what it was about. Talk about addled.
pat how could you not get the point that i made over and over that yankees fans have to stop pointing the finger at other people’s ped usage while excusing or explaining away the yankees ped usage? arod’s and andy’s ridiculous statements and then re-statements of thier ped usage are no better than tejada’s or ortiz’s.
Pat m,
Was it a buzzer beater? I was dozing towards the end. All I know is they won. Not happy about the first 3 game losing streak since the Gasol acquisition.
Kobe was giving it, but he could take it, too. That fake to Kobe’s face was lame. Even the broadcasters were crowing about Kobe’s reax. I hated Barnes when he was with Phoenix. He’s not such a pest now that he’s in the East. Haha.
Y’s Guy
Because I’m not stimulus bound, like you?
Because if I don’t get the truth, the whole truth, so help you….from professional athletes that are purging themselves of heavy burdens, then what they say is worthless?
Gotcha.
http://riveraveblues.com/2010/.....ion-24949/
If you don’t want to read the whole thing, here’s the last paragraph:
Just as Joe Nathan’s injury allows us to appreciate Mariano Rivera’s longevity, Nomar Garciaparra’s retirement reminds us just how amazing Derek Jeter’s career has been, especially as he has remained at such a tough position.
Y’s guy, I see that point about Yankee fans looking for vindication on the roids issue….. In regards Alex and Pettite’s usage I don’t see a real significant freakish numbers and in there physical appearence…..I see them like a petty thief compared to some of the Grand larceny types…The other issue with Yankee fans is that The Sox players and the team in general have recieved a precieved pass on this subject…Starting with the Mitchell Report….Let’s face the facts, Ortiz is a forgotten topic, as is Manny and so forth…..Alex took the rap, and he responded with an October to remember…Plus his comeback from hip surgery, he in my mind had his most significant season to date
I said something similar above:
Unlkke A-Rod and Jeter, Nomar didn’t hold up physically.
Yes, Rich. So that’s the smoking gun. Case closed. Jeter is the better player.
m
Jeter is a first ballot HoF. Nomar…not.
Years from now, Alex may be looked on more favorably. The Joan of Arc of users. But he’ll just have to carry the cross until then.
He’s not asking the fans for anything. And I think that’s great. Just keep your head down and keep plugging away. Time heals a lot of things.
MTU
March 10th, 2010 at 11:18 pm
Here’s what I’m thinking.
If Robertson and Joba are Approximately equivalent right now.
And you believe that Robertson can share the eigth inning role with marte.
Then why not send Joba to AAA to get a Nardi tuneup, etc. if Joba does not get the #5 job ?
I dont see a lot of downside to doing so ?
Shoot it down.
——————————————————-
MTU-
I’m with you on this. Many posters, including SJ44 if I remember correctly, have taken the position that you take your best 11 or 12 arms. You don’t have one of your top arms throwing in the minors.
I get that argument. But my counter is that if Joba has mechanical problems, or a hitch, or whatever people hypothesize he needs to work on, then he should go to AAA and work on it. If he’s going to be a successful starter, he needs to fix his issues and get used to pitching deep into games on a regular basis.
The acquisition of Park should give the Yankees the freedom to do what they need to do to get Joba right and develop into the version of Joba he can be.
If that means going to AAA to work on mechanics, delivery consistency, whatever, they should do it. And when he gets comfortable there, and desired results are seen, you call him up and make sure he does against major league hitting.
With Robertson, Park and Marte for the later innings this is the time for the Yankees to decide if they really want to be an organization that develops its own pitching. Coming off a World Series win, there will never be a better time to do it.
Joan of Arc had a shady cousin?
/peteabe’d
BJK,
If I could jump in here.
They seem to be on this path of no return with Joba. Like literally.
I know he’s shown a lot in his time in the bigs. But I think there’s a point where someone needs to be in charge and make a tough call.
m
Oh…..you were talking about Jeter v. A-Rod……….
I’m not going there.
Nick!
I don’t know whether to hug you or slap you! Both, maybe?
Good to see you back safe.
Rich,
No, talking about the topic of the night. Nomar v. Jeter.
But it’s funny, now that Jeter’s has bounced back defensively you don’t hear a peep about Jeter was selfish for not moving for Alex.
Why is anyone comparing Jeter and Nomar. Time has proven Jeter clearly the better player and he’s still not done. When he is he’ll go down better than Ripken and in my opinion the best shortstop ever when everything is considered. I know Wagner might be rated better but Jeter’s era is clearly clearly more competitive.
m
March 11th, 2010 at 12:50 am
BJK,
If I could jump in here.
They seem to be on this path of no return with Joba. Like literally.
I know he’s shown a lot in his time in the bigs. But I think there’s a point where someone needs to be in charge and make a tough call.
————————————————–
I’d just like to see them see it through. All the craziness they put him through last year, I’d hate to see it all go to waste by starting him in the bullpen this year.
Then if they need him back in the rotation because of injuries or whatever, you have to do the stretching out nonsense again.
Give him a year to try to be a regular starter. Give him HALF a year. See what progress he makes by the all-star break. If he fails, at least there won’t be any doubts that they saw it through and gave him every chance to succeed.
Can we all just agree that Jeter has had a better career than Nomar and leave it at that.
Debating who was better on a random Thursday in August really is snapshot thinking.
Big picture is the way to go!
Nick in SF…You’re back just in time for the Pac 10 Tourney….I hit it big the other day with Cal over The Cardinal, The Hoyas & Syracuse hitting the canvas…..I’ll be asking for your imput on the over / under investmant pool….Vegas Watch is the official book line…..You were missed
Tori Hunter is always running his mouth! During the ALCS he said they were going to walk all over the yankees and then when they were down 3-2 he said it was all part of their master plan. He should just learn to keep his mouth shut. He is the Ocho-Cinco of baseball.
Thank you, m, very nice to be home. Hugs are usually preferable to slaps, but as a man of the world I’ve known both.
I won’t bore everyone with too many details of my trip, but a big highlight was kayaking out to the Morros de Potosi off the Mexican Pacific coast yesterday morning and suddenly being less than a football field away from a blue whale splashing around like it was auditioning for a Pacific Life commercial. I almost missed my flight out of Zihuatanejo ‘cos the show out in the water was too good (not kidding — they told me the flight was already closed when I got to the airport but somehow I got lucky and they let me on).
Another highlight came a few hours later in a Mexico City subway during an 8-hour layover. While trying to take a picture of a guy in a Yankee cap — as is my wont — I noticed a Mexican taking a picture of me in MY Yankee cap. It made me smile.
Thanks to you as well, Pat M. I barely visited my book at all while I was down in Mexico, but I made an exception on Saturday to play Cal -6 and a few others, it was a great day.
The best part was that my brother was mouthing off that he would take the other side of any action I wanted, so I told him he could have Stanford +6. It made for a happy family moment when we got wind of the final score…
BJK,
I would be inclined to agree with you, but Phil Hughes has waited patiently. I think he deserves just as much a chance if he’s pitching well.
In most competitions for playing time, performance trumps seniority.
Joba is having some kind of issue. I think we’ve determined that conditioning is not a problem this season. Could be the shoulder. People say it was the ridiculous Joba Rules. Yet, here we are 4 months later, and it’s looking like mechanics is the issue.
CC, AJ they sometimes have a game where there’s a mechanics issue. They do a side session, bingo, it’s fixed. I don’t think that’s going to work with Joba.
So, I understand the rationale of hiding a young pitcher in the 5th spot and letting them work things out. But from what I’ve seen (and I think the Yankees have seen), they’re not going to be able to do that with Joba.
That’s why my fix involves Joba to the minors to iron things out. Halladay did it, and I don’t understand why the Yankees won’t consider optioning Joba to the minors. The fact remains that there are a few pitchers pitching better than him. And everywhere but Yankeeland, the solution is very obvious.
I understand he had the flu. How long until he gets his legs under him?
The Cal-Berkley Bears are a team on the rise, and they’ve been building up speed for weeks now….They are going to get a nice Westy seeding once they zip thru the Pac 10 Tourney
m, CC Sabathia really has a very uncomplicated motion and delivery…If he falls back ever so slightly the results are clearly evident and easy to resolve…It’s more of a balance adjustment and leg swing….Joba has a far more multi-joint type delivery ….His situation is far more complicated, besides CC has been around the block a few times
They had better zip through the pac 10 tourney, or at least make the title game… as of Monday, ESPN was projecting them as an 8 seed… no respect, no respect I tell ‘ya.
Nick in SF, They win the Tourney in fine fashion, a 4 seed in the West…Any team that makes the Sweet 16 this year can win the the NCAA Championship….
Nick,
Sounds like a lot of excitement. You didn’t miss much here.
Everyone must check these baseball card mockups from the Daily News. Cano, Jorge, Swisher, AJ, Andy (!), Javy all took great pictures. The rest, not so much. That thing extending out from Phil’s arm is his hand. Not a large, skin-colored praying mantis.
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....cards.html
Pat M, a 4-seed is not a pipe dream if they win the tourney… they are already #20 in the RPI, it’s the voters who haven’t caught on yet. I do hope the Huskies demolish the Beavers tomorrow… that’s the team I fear most… they are Cal’s kryptonite.
m, I did try to follow along from time to time and check in once in a while… I see that my lack of input has left the 5th starter question unresolved. I’ll try to do better.
m
March 11th, 2010 at 1:17 am
BJK,
I would be inclined to agree with you, but Phil Hughes has waited patiently. I think he deserves just as much a chance if he’s pitching well….
That’s why my fix involves Joba to the minors to iron things out. Halladay did it, and I don’t understand why the Yankees won’t consider optioning Joba to the minors. The fact remains that there are a few pitchers pitching better than him. And everywhere but Yankeeland, the solution is very obvious.
I understand he had the flu. How long until he gets his legs under him?
—————————————————–
We’re in agreement. If he’s not right, work it out in AAA.
But also keep in mind, we can’t judge either one of them by what we’ve seen this spring so far. Both pitchers aren’t pitching like they would theoretically pitch in real games yet. They’re working on their secondary pitches and building arm strength. You’re going to get knocked around when you’re not using your best stuff.
I want Hughes to be a starter. I’m worried about him running out of gas at the end of the season though with his innings. I don’t buy the argument that #5 pitchers can get through the season and skip starts- injuries happen and #5s quickly become #4s. Everyone talked about Joba occasionally be skipped over last season, but I don’t recalll that happening too much. I do recall a bunch of 3 inning limited starts.
The thing about Jeter is that he’s never had to lead. He can just go and play and have fun. You go into New York, you want to stop Bernie and O’Neill. You never say, ‘Don’t let Derek beat us.’ He’s never your concern.
Brutal. Tombstone material.
BJK,
You beat me to it. I meant to follow up that spring doesn’t tell you much. They’re all a little rusty and starting slow and easy. For sure.
But, I also think the competition is 50% completed already. meaning, the Yankees are taking what they saw last year (larger sample size) into consideration.
They’re probably looking at Hughes to see if he can seriously incorporate the changeup.
They’re looking at Joba to see if he can get it over the plate. See if he’ll listen to instructions & advice. See if he’ll stop shaking off the catcher.
They’re looking at Sergio to see if he’s better further removed from TJS.
They’re looking at Gaudin.
And they’re
at Aceves.
After taking it all in, I think they’ll make the call.
As for Phil’s innings & running out of gas. I think it could and will happen.
But they shouldn’t meter Phil’s innings. They tried to do that last season with Joba(to be fair Joba had to cover Wang’s absence in any postseason scenario) and it was just a mess.
If Phil wins the job, light April and then full bore after that. If and when we make the postseason, Phil to the bullpen.
CCBiggs
March 11th, 2010 at 2:02 am
The thing about Jeter is that he’s never had to lead. He can just go and play and have fun. You go into New York, you want to stop Bernie and O’Neill. You never say, ‘Don’t let Derek beat us.’ He’s never your concern.
——————————————————-
This is kind of like going up to a recently reunited couple and saying, “Hey, remember when he cheated on you that time! So funny. Good to see you two crazy kids got through it.”
I need to go back and look at the context of that quote, but…
Only leaders have pressure? The rest are just playing in the sandlot? What does Alex know about leadership? File this under “young and stupid”?
http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/.....arts-over/
Some of these quotes made me want to cry. The man-child is now a man.
I asked how he would remember his Yankees experience, and after thinking for a while, he answered.
“I feel really privileged to be in that organization for as long as I was,” Duncan said. “It would have been nice, and there would have probably been positives being in other organizations, but I think I learned a lot being in that one. You learn to play the game the right way, go about your business the right way. They do things right over there from the bottom up. I think being there as long as I was has set me up for a lifetime of lessons, or lessons that transcend my playing days.”
What kind of lessons?
“Like if I go into coaching, I have an aspect of how they went about their ways,” Duncan said. “It’s a whole different outlook on the game than being somewhere else for the whole time.
When he made that quote, Alex was “the guy” in the Rangers lineup. He was getting paid $22 million a year. 2nd highest was Palmeiro at $9 million.
ARod was the guy you pitched around on his team, no question. Compared to Jeter, who if you pitched around him, you got to the heavy hitters, Bernie, Paulie, Tino/Giambi.
So the context was comparing his role on his team as “the guy” as opposed to Jeter, who had a lot of “the guys” protecting him.
So he actually wasn’t too far off in what he was expressing, answering a reporter’s question. Except it was a really, really stupid thing to say. So I would file it under the “young and really, really stupid- think before you speak because your mouth is going to get you into trouble with the media, public and very close friend” section.
That quote was in response to Jeter’s agent telling Lupica that Jeter was worth as big a contract as A-Rod because he makes players around him better and that couldn’t be said about A-Rod.
Randy: those before and after fotos of Nomah are not proof positive he was on ‘roids. Being a weightlifter myself, that kind of physical gain is not out of reach with a good diet, a well-rounded weightlifting regimen, and a decent amount of running/jogging.
I showed that SI cov
I interupted myself again but anyway. I showed that SI cover of Nomar to some teammates when it can out, all of which were in great shape and one an ex steriod user. The first thing that each of them said was “he’s on the juice”. There is a subtle but distinct difference in a steriod body and a “hard work” body.
Nomar looked like someone pumped him up with an air compressor during that period. That puffyness in the face and overall is a tell tell sign.
Obviously, nobody knows for sure of he took them or not unless another leak or book comes out but it would appear just based on observations that Nomar traded a strong peak for longevity as the steroids probably contributed to all the injuries that ruined his career.
BJK -
“I’d just like to see them see it through. All the craziness they put him through last year, I’d hate to see it all go to waste by starting him in the bullpen this year.
Then if they need him back in the rotation because of injuries or whatever, you have to do the stretching out nonsense again.
Give him a year to try to be a regular starter. Give him HALF a year. See what progress he makes by the all-star break. If he fails, at least there won’t be any doubts that they saw it through and gave him every chance to succeed.”
Getting caught up from last night.
I couldn’t agree with this more !!!!!
m-
Thanks for your continued support on Joba to AAA if needed.
Bartles and James.
MTU,
Good morning, its pretty early where you are right.
I meant traded longevity for a strong peak…its early
Disclaimer
This is NOT intended as a total knock on Eiland.
Far from it.
But.
I think, if we are ever to see the JC we all hope to see, he needs to be turned back over to the man who really made him.
In much the same way that Neil Allen created Wang I beleieve
that Nardi Contreras helped create Joba.
I hope the Yankees will give that one more try before they give up and decide to turn JC into a pseudo Goose Gossage.
Why do I use a word like “pseudo” ?
Because IMO JC may not even be effective, or should I say fully effective, out of the pen until he regains form.
It’s JMO, and I apologize for being a one trick pony on this issue, but with Joba’s talent the yankees must make certain that he belongs in the pen instead of the rotation.
And again, I say IMO they are not there yet.
Blake-
It’s never too early for a climber.
How you doin” ?
Eh, I’m doin fine. Going to work a little I guess.
Blake-
Mind saying what you do for a living ?
Maybe Torii Hunter is a nice guy but what he said was incredibly racist, not to mention flat out wrong.
It’s funny, people like Sam think Hunter is a nice guy so he’ll get a pass but after his comments the other day I have a very low opinion of the guy.
Patrick-
I agree with the commenter who said Torii is like the ocho cinco of baseball.
He does seem to suffer from chronic foot in mouth disease.
And has made a fool of himself numerous times.
Just my worthless 2 cents on Joba. It may be premature to make a definitive statement on what they ‘should’ do with Joba after ST.
BUT, if the goal is to take the best 11 or 12 arms into the season, and Joba is indeed having issues with his mechanics, then I would posit that RIGHT NOW he is NOT one of the 11 or 12 best arms, and therefore should not go north with the ML team in April.
Bullpen pitcher or starter, if he’s not right, he won’t be effective. He’ll just be mediocre for less of the game, but in impactful innings late in the game when a mistake can’t always be made up for by the offense because time simply runs out.
If, IF, there is indeed a problem with Joba’s mechanics, I do believe the Yankees will do the necessary and make the difficult decision to send him down to work it out. Or maybe I’m just hopeful that’s what they’ll do.
MTU,
Nah, I’m a tooth fixer by trade.
MTU,
do you know specifically what Nardi did to “create” Joba? Sorry but your theory is ridiculous.
How was Joba able to come out after the ASB last year and pitch great without the tutelage of his pitching God Nardi?
If Joba can only be a good pitcher with the help if Nardi then he’ll never be good.
What exactly is Nardi’s job description anyway? Besides “creator” of Joba that is?
Racist? No. Confused yes
Doreen-
That you for supporting that postion.
Personally, I don’t think that there is very much doubt that
Joba would benefit from another “cleaning up” or “remaking” of his mechanics.
I think the BP can withstand the absence of Joba for a time period long enough to exercise that possibility.
Blake-
“tooth fixer”
A Dentisto ?
ray,
How is what he said not racist?
“People see dark faces out there, and the perception is that they’re African American,” Los Angeles Angels center fielder Torii Hunter says. “They’re not us. They’re impostors.”
“As African-American players, we have a theory that baseball can go get an imitator and pass them off as us,” Hunter says. “It’s like they had to get some kind of dark faces, so they go to the Dominican or Venezuela because you can get them cheaper. It’s like, ‘Why should I get this kid from the South Side of Chicago and have Scott Boras represent him and pay him $5 million when you can get a Dominican guy for a bag of chips?’
What if a white player is saying that about light skinned latinos? Completely absurd and, yes, racist.
M, those are great pics. AJ has taken some awfully good pics this year – I have to update my collection. Swisher’s is hilariously different – what a surprise.
Ray-
I understand your counterpoint.
But didn’t neil allen help create Wang ?
Isn’t it possible that Nardi can help Joba whereas Eiland is less able to do so ?
by the way, Ray. it often seemed that when wang “got out of whack” he had trouble fixing himself, and he wasn’t bad was he ?
I do not know if Nardi is overrated or not I am just trying to be practical here. If Nardi knows a way to get Joba back into form shouldn’t it be done ?
That’s all i am really saying.
If you disagree that’s cool with me.
Agree to diagree then.
No problem on my end.
Wow, Patrick. I didn’t read Torii’s comments until now, but they are a real eye-opener. I would lean toward calling them racist comments as well, and it’s hard to excuse him for misspeaking (as he apparently claims) when it’s a rambling thought. It’s not like he just made one statement – this is a whole bunch of statements. If you’re likeable, you can get away with a lot – just ask Charles Barkley. If even Barry Bonds said this, I doubt the same would apply.
Doreen, I agree. If Joba has to be fixed, there is no shame in that. If Halladay could go down, so can anyone. Who cares what mediots think?
Why not be clear to everyone and say ‘Joba you should focus on 1 iin and not 6′…?
Beacuse,I don’t think competing for a job always is the best preparation for the season
Betsy,
What if Milton Bradley said it?
Yikes..
I don’t get why Eiland takes the guff he does………I guess people need to blame someone. I see this ALL the time on NYYFans.com. When do the pitchers take responsibility? Joba shaking off catchers in ST is on him, not Eiland
Betsy-
The same logic would apply to Phil IMO.
And I don’t mean to be a nitpicker but Phil went to API which is in AZ not in CA.
Not that it matters. And i wish Joba would have followed suit over the Winter.
Same thing, Patrick. I agree a white player could never get away with saying anything, but look what the difference in treatment has been between Alex, Giambi, Manny and Ortiz. The media didn’t like Alex, so he got the full-on treatment. Absolutely no one cared about Ortiz and Manny at the time – what, because Selena Roberts wasn’t writing a book about them? No, because they had the media in their hip pockets. I’ve never liked Giambi particularly and his treatment of Alex makes me actively dislike him. However, he’s got this smiling, happy, jokey persona and that means he’s a swell guy!
MTU, it would have behooved Joba to go to API, but he and Phil are two different animals…
Betsy-
If all that was wrong with Joba was just shaking off signs i might agree with you. But mechanics seems to be the biggest issue for most.
And personally, i am not totally anti-Eiland but sometimes one coach sees things that maybe another doesn’t.
That isn’t running down eiland it’s just pointing out the possibility that multiple inputs can sometimes be good.
betsy-
“MTU, it would have behooved Joba to go to API, but he and Phil are two different animals…”
in that regard, it would appear so.
Sad but true Betsy.
Another example is Pettitte vs Clemens. Andy is a nice guy while Roger has always been a bit of a jerk. I don’t even have to go into the differences in how they’ve been percieved since the Mitchell report came out.
Nardi Contereas didn’t “make” Joba Chamberlain.
That isn’t even close to being a factual statement.
When Joba was nearly 300 pounds as a freshman at Nebraska, he was throwing 96 MPH with a sick slider.
Did Nardi travel to Lincoln and “make” him throw that hard when he was 50+ pounds heavier than he was now?
He also had big stuff. That’s what got him noticed in the first place.
He dropped in the draft for fitness and injury reasons. Not stuff reasons.
This is the dangers of the internet.
Somebody reads that Nardi makes an adjustment with Joba and all of a sudden he “made” him.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
There is nothing wrong with the pitching coach of the Yankees.
Its funny, when Eiland makes adjustments for CC, and turns his season around last year, nobody says a word.
Joba stinks it up in a ST outing, its Eilands “fault” and Nardi needs to “fix” him.
Amazing.
New thread
Today in the Journal News
theres 4 weeks of ST left and although im not there, i presume nardi contreras is there now, working with the yankees pitchers. give joba time to work out his mechanics, its early in ST and he will have alot of side sessions and several more starts to work on his mechanical issues.
its too early in ST to make pronouncements on what should be done after ST. and if contreras, eiland & co. cant ‘fix’ joba over the next few weeks, then you go to plan b.
MTU, I agree there’s more to Joba that’s going on than just shaking off catchers (but that’s a symptom of something that’s harder to fix than mechanics: attitude).
Patrick, my nickname on NYYFans is Rocketbooster because I came to love Roger. Personally, he was a very good guy even if he was a jerk on the mound. However, he brought this all on himself with his behavior since that time.
SJ-
I know you think that Eiland is a great pitching coach, and admitedly you have more inside information but people have a right to hold differing opinions even if you deem them incorrect.
And for the record, I didn’t say that Eiland was a terrible, or even a bad coach above. I even put in a disclaimer saying that I wasn’t trying to Knock Eiland. I was merely looking for a practical solution.
I can give eiland credit for the CC thing or anything else positive he may have done but I have no problem believing that he can’t do it all either, and that sometimes other people might be able to help when he can’t. That’s not a knock it’s just a possibility. Kind of like a consultation among doctor’s, or a second opinion.
Nardi is a talented and knowledgable pitching instructor but he can only do so much. I don’t really remember any pitcher that he’s turned around from being crappy or mediocre to being really great.
Dave Eiland has had more time with Joba than any pitching coach or instructor in the Yankees’ system, I think he’s had more effect on him than anyone else.
Hopefully Eiland can help Joba with his mechanics problem because if he can’t Joba won’t succeed in the bullpen or as a starter.
A stint at AAA for 6 weeks to correct Joba’s mechanical issues is exactly what’s needed for the betterment of his career.
There’s no urgency for the month of April and early May to have him on the 25-man roster.
The team is well fortified in the pitching department both with starters and the bullpen. It’s not like having a key position player out of action for 6 weeks like Alex was last year.
Patrick-
I understand your points about Eiland but isn’t it possible that a second, or even third opinion might be helpful with Joba ?
Much in the same way a Second opinion, or consultation comes into play with Physician’s ?
Or is Dave Eiland the only Dr., and that’s it. period.
He may be the primary Dr. but I would hope he consults others on particularly difficult, or unusal cases.
It’s all about being practical for me. No one has all the knowledge. That is not a knock on anyone that’s just a fact.
Your opinion is based on nothing but internet speculation.
The LAST thing Joba Chamberlain needs is yet another voice in his head.
Joe Girardi and Dave Eiland are perfectly capable of knowing what to do with pitchers. They only won the World Series last year.
They also have Mike Harkey, who was is a large man like Joba (with a lot of moving parts in his delivery) and was a pitcher in the majors, to also observe him.
How many more people do you want?
Everybody KNOWS what’s wrong with Joba. Its just a process to work to get him to clean up his mechanics because there are so many moving parts.
This isn’t about having an opinion. Tell me WHY you think Nardi is a good pitching coach and Eiland isn’t.
Anybody can say, “so and so is good” or “so and so is bad”.
Tell me WHY. Then, its an opinion worth debating.
If Nardi Contreras was such a guru, why hasn’t a team hired him to be their pitching coach at the major league level?
Pitching coaches in the major leagues make a lot more money than roving instructors. Which, despite the title, is all Nardi is.
Don’t get caught up so much in internet, self-promotional interviews.
For a guy that is such a “guru”, he sure has a short list of subjects who have made it to the major leagues and succeeded.
No, three opinions is not what Joba needs.
This isn’t a disease. He has the same problem lots of pitchers have with a lot of moving parts in his delivery.
Its not some foreign disease that neither Girardi, Eiland nor Harkey have ever seen. Its a pretty common thing.
They used yesterday’s outing as a clinical session for Joba. Having him just throw to the inner half of the plate is a drill often used to keep one’s mechanics closed.
Its the same thing Dave Duncan uses for his pitchers. Its not groundbreaking stuff.