Spring Training Game 9: Yankees at Tigers
Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Mar 10, 2010 
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YANKEES
Curtis Granderson CF
Nick Johnson DH
Mark Teixeira 1B
Robinson Cano 2B
Marcus Thames RF
Brett Gardner LF
Mike Rivera C
Jorge Vazquez 3B
Ramiro Pena SS
Pitching: Joba Chamberlain (9-6, 4.75 ERA in 2009)
TIGERS
Austin Jackson CF
Ryan Raburn RF
Ryan Strieby 1B
Miguel Cabrera DH
Carlos Guillen LF
Gerald Laird C
Jeff Larish 3B
Scott Sizemore 2B
Adam Everett SS
Pitching: Armando Galarraga (6-10, 5.64 ERA in 2009)
TIME/TV: 1:05 p.m., No TV
WEATHER: Beautiful Florida weather. Clear skies, temps are in the 60s and 70s. Great day for baseball.
UMPIRES: HP Mark Wegner, 1B Joe West, 2B Jerry Layne, 3B Mark Carlson
WHAT’S ON THE LINE: Joba Chamberlain gets the start and then Phil Hughes will pitch right behind him as the two front-runners in the Fifth Starter Derby are on display. Joe Girardi said he’s not putting too much stock in results yet, but this is the last “warm-up” before evaluations begin getting serious.
HELLO, OLD FRIEND: The New York writers spent some time in the Detroit clubhouse before the game, and Johnny Damon was talkative as usual. There wasn’t a whole lot new from him – as you all know, there were a TON of stories written about him over the past month – but he did say that he holds no ill-will towards either the Yankees or his agent, Scott Boras, for how things went down. Some Yankees fans may be mad at Boras, but Damon sure isn’t. “I trusted Scott since I was 16 years old,” he said. “He knows what he’s doing.”
Damon isn’t in the lineup today because he’s suffering from a stubbed toe he picked up while playing with his kids in the backyard at home. I’ll post a few more comments from Damon later.
A-JAX: After talking to Damon, a few of us chatted with Austin Jackson. Since I know he’s a blog favorite, I’ll post the audio below. Jackson said he wasn’t disappointed when he learned he was traded and is excited about likely reaching his dream of being an every-day big leaguer.
He’s also pleased to be hitting leadoff, where power production won’t be an issue. He did say he misses some of his buddies from the Yanks minor leagues, including Colin Curtis who – you may remember – hit a walkoff homer the other day. “I called him after that!” Jackson said.
Here’s the audio:
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UPDATE, 1:14 p.m.: Nice start for Granderson, singling after getting a nice ovation from the Tigers fans. Yankees get nothing though and now it’s Joba time.
UPDATE, 1:19 p.m.: Good-looking change-up by Joba to get Jackson looking at strike three. That’s a pitch Joba said the other day that he’s trying to work on in spring. He follows that up by walking Raburn, though.
UPDATE, 1:32 p.m.: Jorge Vazquez ropes a ball down the left-field line and Brett Gardner – speedster extraordinaire – comes all the way around to score. It’s 1-0 Yankees.
UPDATE, 1:42 p.m.: It’s spring training so they just called Jeff Larish’s grounder a single but I think Mark Teixeira would say he should have had that one. Either way, one on and two out.
UPDATE, 1:43 p.m.: No damage done. Grounder to third ends the inning. Joba has allowed one hit and one walk through two.
UPDATE, 1:47 p.m.: Hey, it’s Phil Coke! And there’s Mark Teixeira absolutely murdering a pitch over the left-center field fence. Coke has a new look – long hair, hairy beard – but, apparently, similar results. It’s 3-0 Yankees.
UPDATE, 2:03 p.m.: Joba, Joba, Joba. That’ll do it for Chamberlain, who trudges off after giving up two singles, a walk, another single, another walk and then a grand slam to Gerald Laird on a 1-0 pitch. Not ideal. Phil Hughes now on to start his work.
UPDATE, 2:37 p.m.: Hughes isn’t exactly impressing. He gave up an absolute rocket solo homer to Ryan Rayburn and then – after a single from Ryan Strieby – watched Miguel Cabrera smoke a fly ball to center that Granderson caught with his back to home plate. Total circus catch on a ball that went about 410 feet. Hughes did escape with only one run charged.
UPDATE, 3:19 p.m.: Clubhouse open so I’ll be back in a bit.
Good old, AJack.
Guys, we’ll just have to disagree. Cano was awful in the 5th spot, he was awful with RISP. I don’t believe in trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Talent-wise he may fit the 5th spot perfectly, but he has not performed nearly as well there as his talent dictates he should. If you want to give him another shot, fine, but unless he changes his approach at the plate, I don’t see why is going to take off (wishing doesn’t make it so).
Betsy,
Hitting with RISP has a lot to do with BABIP luck. Granted Cano needs to be more patient, but if he gets left in the 5 hole he will hit. He’s too good not to. And there is no magic spell that has kept him from doing well there. It’s been some bad luck and poor plate disc. He’s working on the the plate disc.
LOL I don’t buy what Damon is trying to sell because his words this whole off-season tell me he’s bitter. He tried to tarnish Cash’s integrity by saying that Cash got his info from the media….I don’t know what to say about that anymore. Well ok, he trusted Scott- then Damon is exactly where he wanted to be as he said. Maybe when he retires, he can sign a one day contract with the Sox. After all, he never wanted to leave there……and then, after he was forced out, Detroit was his first choice. Yeah.
WEATHER: Beautiful Florida weather. Clear skies, temps are in the 60s and 70s. Great day for baseball.
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I’m jealous. lol
Phil the Thrill
March 10th, 2010 at 1:00 pm
Hitting with RISP has a lot to do with BABIP luck. Granted Cano needs to be more patient, but if he gets left in the 5 hole he will hit. He’s too good not to. And there is no magic spell that has kept him from doing well there. It’s been some bad luck and poor plate disc. He’s working on the the plate disc.
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Great post, Phil. Completely agree.
Phil, I’m not saying you can’t chalk any of his struggles up to bad luck, but I’m not going to give bad luck much credence. If we do that, then are we saying every player with a bad year (or bad RISP stats) hit into bad luck? We left him in the 5 hole last year (or was it the year before) and he didn’t do it. I don’t agree that it’s a given that Cano will come through; I’m not saying he never will, but I’m not willing to assume he will.
pcaldera Phil Coke’s 1st reaction to trade from NYY: “I was very upset…Seemed like some people had done less in the past and stuck around longer.” 3 minutes ago
There’s no TV or radio for this one.
Ledger_Yankees “That’s a class move by the Red Sox and Nomar. ” – Johnny Damon 3 minutes ago
Got to love Cokey’s interviews, but Kennedy is the man.
BTW can Colin Curtis get atleast 3 ABs in one of these games, please?
Phil had better get his change up down today or else he’s going to be at a disadvantage going forward. This is why I hate the idea of the competition.
anyone have a gameday link?
How do you find this day to day?
Betsy,
good and bad luck in terms of BABIP is easy to check up on. If we went player to player and checked it, we’d know who had good luck and who had bad luck. Cano will hit wherever he is put if given enough chances. He’s a great hitter. He just need to walk a bit more.
It sounds like Coke took it personally, but that’s too bad; it’s a business. The Yankees needed to trade him (which I was absolutely fine with) to get a better player…
Well that’s not great! I guess we need to just keep reading the updates. I find silence really strange. You get used to it with posting, although the keys don’t really do justice to peak excitement – but having a game where you need to read the updates to get a sense of things isn’t a lot of fun.
I guess when you grow up with 5 brothers and sisters (meaning 6 kids as opposed to 11
) noise is a requirement for a healthy life!
Gameday link:
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday.....b_detmlb_1
BloggingBombers Granderson singles in his first at-bat against his former team. He said he’ll be more excited for his first trip to Detroit than Boston. 11 seconds ago
Phil, I don’t even care if Cano walks more; I don’t want to take away his aggressiveness. I’m just not ready to wait and wait and wait until maybe Cano gets it because I don’t know that he will. Again, I’m not saying he’s not trying (not at all) and I’m not saying he’s not ultra-talented. My question remains: how long do you wait with him if he’s not getting the job done?
This is all I found. It’s the Box score. If you keep refreshing it, you’ll see what each batter does in terms of getting a hit or not, and you can see the ratio of gb to fo for pitchers.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/boxsco.....b_detmlb_1
Good going, Dave F!
JackCurry1 Damon (toe injury) didnt care about not playing vs Yanks. “This aint my 1st rodeo,” he said 43 seconds ago
Kevin Long and the Yankees have identified that Cano is a different hitter with RISP. His mechanics and his approach is different. Better Luck and a higher BABIP is not going to just fix that.
Also, his different approach could explain his low BABIP with RISP and not just luck. We really do not know at this point.
Betsy,
He hasn’t even had a whole season or half a season batting fifth. You’re reacting to a smattering of samples and what we all know has been bad luck and bad disc with RISP. That’s the part of it he can control. And don’t worry about taking his aggressiveness away. He’ll have much better results if he only swings and strikes, and will immediately become one of the best players in the game. He just needs to lay off some bad pitches and walk two or three times a week. It’s not that radical.
Jorge Vasquez at 3B?
What are you waiting for? It’s a new year.
That means it’s a fresh start for everybody.
If we go by last year and have that affect our thinking this year, why give Hughes a pass? He stunk in the post-season last year.
Under your “Cano Theory”, Hughes should never pitch in the post-season again.
You have to learn to turn the page. Everybody starts fresh in a new year.
Stubbed toe? What a riot. And so Damon and the injury factory begins.
Joba en fuego! Nice first inning!!!
Ledger_Yankees Joba gets Cabrera to fly out to center. Side retired. 17 pitches for Joba, by my count. 35 seconds ago
Looks like a pretty good inning for Jobber.
trisha – OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!!
March 10th, 2010 at 1:24 pm
Stubbed toe? What a riot. And so Damon and the injury factory begins.
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Do you really think its any different than Nick Johnson getting scratched for tweakign something cause he wore the wrong shoes????
Its a person not playing cause its the very beginning of ST and there is no reason to push anything
The problem with not at least trying Cano in the 5 hole in the beginning of the year is that you are not going to learn anything about his approach there or with RISP during ST.
The only way we find out if Kevin Long and Cano have figured it out and corrected the issue is too see what the does there in a real game.
Granted his .210 BABIP with RISP in 2009 is just way too low to sustain for such a good hitter, but there is much more here than just luck.
He didn’t need to walk a guy.
I would pay a lot of money to sit in this car….
http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/.....termobile/
“You have to learn to turn the page. Everybody starts fresh in a new year.”
That would be a Bingo!
Gardy walked.
thanks Dave F for the link, and Erin for the updates.
LGY- love your new handle.
Is everyone guessing that NJ will be batting 2nd? And if people don’t want Cano 5th, who do they want there? Granderson? Posada?
While I have always been on Cano to finally have his big breakout year, I really think this is it. He has a championship ring. Has been working hard. His approach seems more focused. It’s always like a plan when you are up there, not just hacking away. I think he will surprise a lot this year. His entering his prime years now. I think this is the year he breaks 100rbis.
Phil, a 3-pitch K, two 1-pitch fly outs? I’ll take a walk thrown in any time!
I thought Jeter was a Ford guy !.. Sell out
I give Cano the first 25 games in the #5 spot in the order.
That’s 15% of the season.
By that time, you will get an idea as to whether he has made the necessary adjustments to succeed hitting with RISP.
If he can’t do it, you put somebody else in the spot and still have PLENTY of time left in the season.
There is no logical reason for him to be so poor in those situations. He’s a better hitter than Granderson or Posada.
Regardless of whatever new fangled approach to baseball one wants to follow, it kinda makes sense to have your best hitters hitting as high up in the order as possible.
NYY626
March 10th, 2010 at 1:28 pm
I would pay a lot of money to sit in this car….
http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/…..termobile/
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You and me both. If we both chip in, we could afford it, right?
not to mention although Robbie was terrible last yr w/risp he was great in ’07 when he hit .306 w/risp…..
it’s like in ’06 ARod hit like .235 w/risp and the next year, his opt out year , he hit over .300 in the same situations…sometimes these things are cyclical…
Jeter’s the only player in the history of the game to hit over .400 w/risp EVERY YEAR IN HIS CAREER….
I know I’m mancrushing but it’s like that with Jeet
Phil and SJ, good points. SJ, I was referring to this year – how long do you give Cano this year? I suppose there’s no point in even thinking about that as the season hasn’t started.
@ LGY:
Do you have link to where Kevin Long has said Cano is a “different hitter” with RISP and that his mechanics and approach are different?
And maybe someone more knowledgeable in hitting can answer this one for me: Are batters SUPPOSED to have a different approach with RISP, or are they supposed to approach hitting exactly the same way whether or not there are baserunners?
There’s no reason for anyone to be worrying about Cano, you can’t get 200 hits by accident. If he bats .545 with RISP this season, but produces the same 200 hits everyone will be praising him as the second coming. Baseball is ruled by the law of averages, and the odds of him replicating his extreme bad luck with RISP from last season are very low.
OOps, I see you answered my question. Fair enough, SJ. Cano has been working hard and so maybe he has taken the next step.
Ledger_Yankees Trivia question: How many times last season did Brett Gardner score from first base? 35 seconds ago
Ledger_Yankees Vazquez doubles down the left field line, Gardner scores. 1-0 #nyy 54 seconds ago
anyone have a direct audio or video link?
Cano’s issues revolve around his inability to go up there with a plan. Taking pitches, looking and waiting for his pitch. His strengths are his ability to basically hit anything anywhere, but that doesn’t mean you have to swing at them all. When he has RISP he seems way too anxious and too quick to chase, rather than waiting on his pitch. The pitcher is in a bind and he seems to let them off the hook. Basically pitchers know they can make him chase and use it to their advantage.
BD – you are not supposed to have a different approach per se, but if there is a hole opened up somewhere because of the base the runners that are on, you might try to look for an inside/outside pitch to increase your chance of hitting that hole.
it’s only human nature to be tense in important situations. if he were calm up there 100% of the time like Jeter is then he would be our second, wait third… wait… like 5th “once in a lifetime” player on our roster.
Ledger_Yankees As for Gardner, he scored from first base once (according to billjamesonline.net) 20 seconds ago
I predict many different players will hit 5th for the Yanks this year.
His problem with RISP has been correctly identified by KLong.
He gets overanxious and begins to leak out at the plate.
That means, he leans out of his stance, is too quick and his mechanics get out of whack. That leads to him having less than solid contact in those situations. It also leads to him chasing bad pitches in those situations.
Good hitters let the ball travel as deep to them as possible and then let their hands do the work. Great hitters do that consistently regardless of game situations.
In less stressful situations, Cano does that better than anybody on the team.
The key is to transfer that to more stressful situations.
You do that by drilling continuously in the Spring so your mechanics are tight, regardless of the game situation.
You also simulate game situations in BP and take that out to the games.
In other words, its a fixable problem and one the Yankees have to fix to get the most out of his talents.
“Jeter’s the only player in the history of the game to hit over .400 w/risp EVERY YEAR IN HIS CAREER….”
That must be a mistake.
What happened to Chad Jennings? I know I missed something somewhere
Well my gameday appears to be frozen in the first flippin’ inning. Does everyone else have to do a refresh, or is that supposed to be automatic?
Upstate, at this point I don’t know who I want in the 5 hole. It’s far too early too tell I would think. Girardi considers the two hole open. I assume the five is up for grabs also.
I said I thought Posada was going to clean up in ST and therefore be in the 5 hole, but that’s purely a guess. I just keep remembering back to watching Gardner get the starting CF job over Melky last year and that tells me that Girardi is going to wait and watch and the 5 will be filled that way. Of course we also know that with Girardi those things aren’t etched in stone. He isn’t afraid to juggle the lineup, take people out of the rotation, etc.
I love the guy.
“not to mention although Robbie was terrible last yr w/risp he was great in ‘07 when he hit .306 w/risp…..”
You are taking that number out of context though. That year he hit .342. With the bases empty he hit .372. By comparison to his performance on the year .306 was not a good performance.
Not to mention his OBP was .335 compared to .365 on the year and .398 with the bases empty.
“Jeter’s the only player in the history of the game to hit over .400 w/risp EVERY YEAR IN HIS CAREER….”
What? That is not true.
BD,
I have to go so I do not have time to search for an article with Long’s quotes, but SJ pretty much summed up what has been said this offseason and what Long is working with him on.
“Well my gameday appears to be frozen in the first flippin’ inning.”
The box score is too.
Jeter has not even been above .300 with RISP every year.
Trisha
My gameday also froze.
What happened to Chad Jennings? I know I missed something somewhere
Wave, once again I’m with you!
LGY – LOVE your tagline!
WhooHoo! Joba “looking” good.
Doreen,
I don’t know if it was you asking about pitch counts on gameday. But they’re basically worthless. Looks like they’re showing 3 pitches for a strikeout, 4 pitches for a walk, and 1 pitch for a ball put into play.
tk
March 10th, 2010 at 1:44 pm
“Jeter’s the only player in the history of the game to hit over .400 w/risp EVERY YEAR IN HIS CAREER….”
That must be a mistake.
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that would be an exaggeration and should have been obvious that it was said in jest…..
atta boy Tex
DaveF – thanks. Very annoying!
Meanwhile Joba is kicking butt and taking numbers!!!!
Carl,
What happened? I hope it involved Phil Coke pointing to the heavens!
Tony-
Chad is taking a required week off. He’ll be back
Hughes
Needs to expand his arsenal with effective change up
Chamberlain
Needs to show fastball command
Aceves, Mitre & Gaudin
Need both Joba & Hughes to fail and outperform they other 2 in this group
UPDATE, 1:47 p.m.: Hey, it’s Phil Coke! And there’s Mark Teixeira absolutely murdering a pitch over the left-center field fence. Coke has a new look – long hair, hairy beard – but, apparently, similar results. It’s 3-0 Yankees.
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But did Coke point to it when it went over the fence????
Aceves, Mitre & Gaudin
Need both Joba & Hughes to fail and outperform the other 2 in this group
in spring training sometimes they “freeze” gameday and only update at the half-innings….
m March 10th, 2010 at 1:50 pm
Carl,
What happened? I hope it involved Phil Coke pointing to the heavens!
He did. Tex homered on a 1-1 pitch to right field.
Tampayank, no audio or video today.
Erica – always OPPC ThANK YOU!
Phil Coke’s game not going so well.
Lgy
most hitters are more successful in lower stress situations.
so most see a drop in #’s w/risp….
If Cano hits .306 with a .335-340 obp w/risp this season he’ll drive in 100-115 rbis from the 5 spot and we’ll be cheering him for MVP considerations.
Carl,
How are you following the game?
trisha-
My personal vote would be for Posada to bat fifth as a general rule, but I expect Granderson and Cano will bat fifth a lot, maybe even NJ, and occasionally Winn or Thames.
i was in the joba starts camp, however, if the only way to get his fastball to where he used to be is to limit him to one or two innings out of the pen in front of rivera, then he needs to be in the pen. 91mph is ok now but wont cut it anymore in the regular season.
twitter
http://twitter.com/Ledger_Yankees
http://twitter.com/BloggingBombers
Wave, mine would be for Posada also.
I think it’s okay to cut Coke some slack because he is pitching against his former team. Remember Damon facing the Fenway crowd the first series? He couldn’t hit anything. And even though it’s only ST, Coke is hardly a seasoned veteran.
“But did Coke point to it when it went over the fence????”
Kudos to you on that one Erica:)
Thanks, Carl.
Wow. Feinsand looks like a different man.
I saw at the Daily News that the sports writers are all doing a biggest loser contest. Mark looks like he’s taking it seriously.
Too early to worry about fastball velocity.
Joba is always slow to ramp up fastball velocity.
Need another 10 days or so before you look at the gun.
Right now, its about repeating his mechanics and getting his pitch count up. Especially since he missed some time with the flu.
Velocity can come around later and will if his mechanics are tighter.
Apparently you can’t pitch in the major leagues now without a 98mph fastball? That’s interesting.
I know it is early and I know it is spring training yada, yada, but we Gardner hitting skeptics are not being filled wiht confidence at .077.
m
He really does
Yeah, those twitters help. Gameday still showing 3-0
“that would be an exaggeration and should have been obvious that it was said in jest…..”
Gotcha. The tone wasn’t obvious, but the stat was obviously wrong, so if I had seen the post was your’s I probably would have realized you were saying it in jest.
Carig doing play by play, pitch by pitch!
Joba had Guillen 0-2, but loses him.
Gameday picks games to update real-time, the others update at the half inning – when the inning is over, they’ll filter in all the “action”
3-2 now as Joba walks in a run
Joba’s melting down.
Joba just gave up a grand slam to the laird catcher
Brandon Awesome (B/c I’m more AWESOME than the ARod HGH mob)
March 10th, 2010 at 1:59 pm
“But did Coke point to it when it went over the fence????”
Kudos to you on that one Erica:)
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Thanks Brandon. Btw- welcome back
seems like all the former yanks do something like grow out their hair and / or sport the goatee especially when they return to the stadium for the first time.
Whoa. What are the odds of a bases loaded grand slam?
2nd time through the line up’s not looking good
Oh well. Another crap start for Spring Training number 2. Velocity seemed pretty good so sounds like location and mechanics. Rather see flashes and improvement then him not getting any velocity.
Jerry March 10th, 2010 at 2:07 pm
seems like all the former yanks do something like grow out their hair and / or sport the goatee especially when they return to the stadium for the first time.
Matsu won’t
Using 10-12 ST AB’s’ tells us nothing about a guy.
Its best not to get caught up in ST batting averages since that doesn’t tell the entire story.
Guys are trying different things and still are getting used to facing live pitching on a daily basis.
Once you get into the final 2 weeks of ST, you get a better idea how guys are swinging the bat.
Right now, numbers mean nothing.
Holy crap! A granny ain’t a good thing.
did Coke blame the ballpark?
Joba needs to get his head out of his butt.
http://twitter.com/Ledger_Yankees
giving pitch by pitch updates.
Ledger_Yankees With Larish going, Sizemore fouled a ball off #nyy catcher Mike Rivera’s helmet. Trainer out there now.
2 minutes ago via TweetDeck
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another catcher down?
Now let me say as a caveat that I really do not give a sweet fig who gets the 5th starter position or when the decision is made. I’m the one who’s always good with decisions made by the people who know what they’re doing (hint: they receive paychecks from the NYY organization).
My take on Joba hasn’t changed. I think the kid has explosive stuff and is well suited for relief. It doesn’t mean that he can’t work his stuff into a starter. It means that with the 5th spot being up for grabs and a few of the contenders showing a lack-of meltdown, maybe this isn’t his year to start. It doesn’t mean he may not start at some point. Starters have lost their jobs before. But his stuff is so good at the onset that relief seems a good place for him.
wow joba really blew up there.
It sounds like Joba ran out of gas.
Carig said he had decent stuff, topped out @ 94. Just couldn’t throw strikes.
Erin
March 10th, 2010 at 1:33 pm
NYY626
March 10th, 2010 at 1:28 pm
I would pay a lot of money to sit in this car….
http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/…..termobile/
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You and me both. If we both chip in, we could afford it, right?
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Haha I think the entire blog would have to chip in for this one!
Girardi said he wants to make a decision by the 25th
If Hughes puts up a decent effort today, the 3rd start for Joba could be do or die
Phil still sitting at 90-91. Although I think his changeup, location and pitch count are the keys for his spring more than worrying about velocity and runs.
Did Phil get out of the inning?
It usually takes Phil until May to get his maximum velo.
Yes, the inning’s over. Rivera must be okay. Batted, but made an out.
Dave F
March 10th, 2010 at 2:12 pm
http://twitter.com/Ledger_Yankees
giving pitch by pitch updates.
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Much thanks, Dave F.
NYY626
March 10th, 2010 at 2:17 pm
Haha I think the entire blog would have to chip in for this one!
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LOL I think you’re right!
Rivera’s definitely okay if he’s batting and making outs.
I think Granderson having a good game v. Det will be good for his psyche. Yeah, it’s psychologizing, but whatever.
The velocity comments have had to stop. Any one take a long time off going to the gym, like 3-4 months? Who goes back to lift max weight on their 1st or 2nd workout. Velocity same thing.
Nicky walks to load the bases.
Tex K’s on a fastball.
Erin, did you see a picture of it or just read the article? All I get with a link is the article, no picture.
Well how about Arod getting into an accident with his “$400,000 car”? That’s a hell of a lot of dollars for one car! That’s a hell of a lot of dollars for 10 cars!!!
Idon’t know how many times it must be repeated, but the first half of Spring Training games are for players to get into game shape…The last two weeks they turn it up a few notches…..St Patrick’s Day is tradionally the second phase of S.T……They’ll have cleaned house of just about all the Minor League guys, and focuse on the 25 guys going North……That being said, Joba’s outing still is an eyebrow raiser….
“It sounds like Joba ran out of gas.”
That seems pretty likely to me. What is this, his second spring outing?
You never want to see runs being walked in or grand slams but honestly who cares, it’s still so early in the spring.
Pat M, agree with your entire post.
This is a bit off topic, and tt does not rise to the level of riding in Jeter’s car, but last summer I had the chance to sit in Spike Lee’s Special Yankee Edition Ford Mustang convertible. It is a nice vehicle. Spike has a house on Martha’s Vineyard where I have been vacationing with my family for the past few years. His car was parked at the ferry terminal while we were waiting to catch the boat. I was taking pictures of the car with my kids when the guy who was minding the vehicle asked me if we would like to sit in the car. My kids thought it was very cool.
trisha – OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!!
March 10th, 2010 at 2:32 pm
Erin, did you see a picture of it or just read the article? All I get with a link is the article, no picture.
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trisha, as far as I know, there was no picture, just the article.
Jacob Turner the kid pitching for the tigers right now is 18 or 19. He was drafted last year and many people thought he had the best arm in the draft. Very big arm. He fell in the draft due to signability and the Tigers snatched him and paid him a lot, like they usually do in round 1.
Turner just struck out Tex on three straight pitches, the third strike a swing and miss.
Not bad for a kid just drafted.
Phil gives up a homer.
Chambliss, that’s awesome!!
Alot of pitchers are coming into ST out of shpe endurance wise in the majors, they need to do more running in the offseason.
Hughes gives up a hour down the line to rayburn. Granderson made an excellent catch in cf, the tigers have jacob turner on the mound. Kid is 18 yrs old and touching 97 on the gun, hughes is around 90-92 he’s touched 93 a few times
Tricia, a 400 K car for someone with Alex’s desposible income is zip….It’s like someone making 100 grand buyind a Schwinn
Hmm, Joba and Phil are really struggling. Last year, Phil went to that Institute in California and had a great spring; I wonder why he didn’t go back there? Well, I assume he’s throwing is change a lot. I can live with that getting hit, but his FB command doesn’t seem like it’s so hot.
I hate the tigers for being smart in the draft
They picked Porcello #27 in the 2007 draft. The Yanks had the 30th pick. 28 and 29 were the Twins and Giants who most expected to pass on Porcello because of the money.
Can you guys imagine if the Tigers passed on him and the Yanks picked him (a virtually certainty at 30)? Chamberlain, Hughes, Porcello for the next decade? Holy crap…
RT @BloggingBombers: At the moment, I’d rate the fifth starter competition as follows: 1) Aceves 2) Mitre 3) Hughes 4) Gaudin 5) Joba /word
Triple word for me.
Pat M I’m so far down on that food chain that I didn’t even know they made $400,000 cars!
If you base the 5th starter competition on spring training performance that’s probably the right order 1-5. Luckily the Yanks don’t do this. It’s pretty near 100% that Joba or Phil will be the fifth starter.
Gardner with a perfect bunt dowb the line, mike rivera smokes one off the top of the wall in left, more air and it wouldve been gone
Also keep this in mind (for anyone showing any signs of panic):
Santana and Lincecum (two of the best in the game) both got smoked in their opening outings.
what would be wrong with a bullpen that consists of joba & phil ?
“watched Miguel Cabrera smoke a fly ball to center that Granderson caught with his back to home plate. Total circus catch on a ball that went about 410 feet. Hughes did escape with only one run charged.”
I bet he took a bad route :/
It would make no sense.
You have to develop starting pitching from within.
That’s why one of them will be in the rotation.
Ace’s back issues make it unlikely he will be a starter.
Its much easier to manage that situation in small doses via appearances than as a starter.
Tom, the problem with them both being in the pen would be that neither could really get stretched out enough that way and it would impeded their development. If neither got the 5th spot, the best way would be for one to be in the pen (which appears likely) and one to be sent to AAA to start there.
meant to say “relief” appearances.
The baseball world is littered with people who make a big deal out of good or bad performances in ST.
Won’t stop people from doing so.
Just makes little sense from a baseball perspective.
As the old saying goes, the two months of the year you don’t evaluate are September and March because you often get false reads on them.
ST needs to be longer, these pitchers in the majors need it.
Ok question – I mentioned on NYYFans.com that Phil’s velocity will come in time like all power pitchers and a poster replied that he’s not a power pitcher. Am I missing something? He gets a lot of strikeouts and he has very good stuff (even though he doesn’t sit 95). What exactly is the definition of a power pitcher?
NYYFAns.com is exploding over how the Yanks ruined Joba and how Phil is soft-tossing. Just because David Price and another of their pitchers came out throwing hard doesn’t mean that Phil or Joba have to. I mean, all individuals are different. I don’t recall Phil (can’t speak for Joba) ever throwing that hard early in the year – he’s always been a guy, at least since he’s come to camp, that builds up (even well into the season).
Keep it, I would hope that nobody is panicking at this point. It’s just a matter of seeing how it all sifts out.
Its too long as it is Brandon.
In two weeks, everybody will be ready.
These guys play enough baseball. The Yankee season didn’t end until November last year.
Its folly to expect these guys to be ready to go full tilt in early March.
Hughes with a quick inning, his offspeed stuff was working. Daniel schlerth in for det, he can run it up to 98
Betsy
didn’t SJ warn you to stay away from that place
Brackman should be coming in next
Betsy,.
I wouldn’t consider Halladay a power pitcher. Pitching at the big league level has very little to do with how hard you throw. That said Phil and most pitchers are still building arm strength right now.
I think people are making a big deal about it because Phil and Joba are in a competition with each other. Personally, I think the concerns about Phil’s velocity on NYYFans.com are over the top. Joba’s velocity? I don’t know – it’s strange that his tendonitis seems to have drained some of his velocity.
Anyone else having trouble with this site today?
Betsy,
As I said earlier, don’t look to NYYFans.com for insight. Its just a bunch of crybabies. lol
They are correct. The Yankees “ruined” Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain.
That’s their story on March 10 and they are sticking to it.
BTW, someone tell them that there is a ring ceremony in April for the Yankees and both guys will receieve rings because both contributed to a World Championship team before their 25th birthdays.
If that’s “ruining” guys, I hope the Yankees have a few more young talents like this coming to for them to “ruin” in the same fashion in the coming years.
I think to be a true power pitcher you need to get ks and get lots of swings and misses. When Phil’s fastball sits around 91 it has less movement. As a reliever you could see the difference. Lots more swings and misses. He has a two and a four seam fastball. He uses one over the other as a starter and seems to get better velocity over the other. He has good arm motion and delivery which masks the speed a bit. Adding a changeup makes the fastball that much more effective. His curve is pretty nasty. If he uses his offspeed and cutter occasionally and then mixes in the different fastballs he will be fine. He always had great control in the minors so would love to see spring training, low pitch counts, fooling hitters and an uptick from the beginning velocity. Could care less about homers or runs.
Kate, I go there, but I do take the posters there sometimes with a huge grain of salt. When I want info and I have questions such as I asked now, I always come here first.
Aaron, that’s good news. Are you at the game? Phil seems to be making progress with his change.
Blake, no doubt. I agree that you don’t need velocity to succeed, but I always thought of Phil as a power pitcher because he’s not a soft-tosser. Hmm, maybe he’s a hybrid.
When is Chad back? Not a fan of Sam.
Phranchise, Phil doesn’t sit at 91; he’s around 92-94. Also, I’m sure you’re aware of this, he does get a lot of Ks – his FB has a lot of life on it. I LOVE his curve – it went bye-bye in the pen last year, but he’s got a good one if he could use it more often.
Fatlin vs Fatcessa is cracking me up
On 3-2, looked like Hughes went with a changeup. Got Larish to pop to the catcher. 2 out. Joba available to media. Tweetcast over.
13 minutes ago via TweetDeck
Nice……
Carig does a good job, but it’s silly to rank these guys right now (especially since this is a 2 horse race).
Fatlin?
LOL SJ – there are some good posters there, but I agree about the lack of insight.
Oh snap!
Fatcessa hanged up on SNY Carlin and called him a clown.
Betsy, You’re seeking logic in a sea of confusion , that’s what that site is all about…..You have absolutely nothing to gain going there, you’d be a big fish in a small pond if you were to stay there…….It’s like RAB’s, they take the back of a Topps Baseball Card and roid it up…..Some relavence , but mostly lip service……Stay here at the LoHud, It’s enjoyable, deversified, funny and it’s educational at the same time…..
That was brutal what Francessa just did to continent. Call him a clown and hang up, jeez
Brandon,
The same Carlin that used to (or maybe still does?) fill in on the morning show with Kim on WFAN?
Yes Patrick that one.
Schlerth for det,who sits at 95 during the year topped out at 91. You shouldn’t be concerned about velo right now. Hoffman up, brackman appears to be warming in the pen.
Betsy, that’s what he was in the minors. Last year as a starter he wasn’t doing that, that was in the pen. Which is what I was saying. He let’s go more out of the pen and uses his two and four seam more which have different velocities. If you remember last year the complaints were about his velocity and his pitch count he couldn’t stay in games. He wasn’t getting a lot of swings and misses as a starter last year which led to a lot of long counts. Not saying he won’t get better, but that is the point with the changeup. Keeping hitters more off balance. He can dial it up hirer, but as a starter he is not consistent 92-94 in the majors yet. He touches it and was sitting 90-91 to start the season last year. I think he is a stud pitcher and will soon learn how to use the whole arsenal, dial it up for ks when he wants, but he still is a young starter who has to learn how to pitch deep etc. That’s why short pitch counts are important to me this spring training. Consistently show you can go 5+ innings a game as a starter. Same for Joba. They would be fifth starters. 6+ innings a game allowing 3-4 runs is enough to win a lot of ball games. They should be better than that, but can’t have the short outings and taxing the bullpen they had done at times last year.
“Yes Patrick that one. ”
Hmm I always thought he was semi-rational. Why did big Mike hang up on him and call him a clown?
He did a false report on Calhoun retiring and didn’t back up his guns, Fatcessa ripped him on air, called him a clown as he waived him off.
you pay attention to velocity 3-4 starts into spring training NOT on March 10th
Seems like Mike had the goal in mind to put carlin in his place from the get go, try and remind him though he’s big timing over at SNY that to Mike he’s still just continent. Carlin must be fuming, guess I’ll have to tune into loudmouths tonight
You’re kidding yourself if you think the competition is down to two. My wife’s cousin grew up with Joe Girardi, they’re very good friend and he spends time with him in Tampa every spring. He told him that 5 pitchers all have an equal chance going in and the one that impresses the most is the one who ends up with the job.
Continent loss his balls w/ that one, not that he ever had any.
You’re kidding yourself if you think the competition is down to two. My wife’s cousin grew up with Joe Girardi, they’re very good friend and he spends time with him in Tampa every spring. He told him that 5 pitchers all have an equal chance going in and the one that impresses the most is the one who ends up with the job.
___
this may be true, but aceves or mitre will have a shorter leash than Hughes or Joba. The kids will replace whoever is 5th at the first sign of trouble.
Why is he called Continent? Play on his name/size?
That’s funny though that Mike blasted him
Ledger_Yankees Joba said he felt tired toward the end of his outing. about one minute ago
Former top prospect Hirsh has looked pretty good so far
Erin March 10th, 2010 at 3:22 pm
Ledger_Yankees Joba said he felt tired toward the end of his outing. about one minute ago
———————–
Fitness issues or is it too early?
Trevor, You must be nieve…..
trevor,
Oh yeah well my father’s, uncle’s, best friend’s roomate went to pre-school with Brian Cashman and he told me that Cashman said the competition is between Hughes and Chamberlain.
Why would they have a shorter leash?
Ledger_Yankees “I understand fully what’s at stake. I also understand there’s no panic button. There’s a sense of urgency, believe me… 36 seconds ago
Phranchise, I think for the most part we agree. All I know is that, regardless of velocity (or how long he stayed in games) people were very impressed with Phil’s stuff and they thought that finally he was healthy and looking like the Phil of old. He knows how to pitch and he’s got late life on his FB, so he does have great stuff even 91-94. You’re right, he wasn’t overly consistent with his velocity, but we never saw him as a starter in the heat of summer, with all those innings under his belt. He was put into the pen before he could really gain consistentcy as a starter. He did have a great K to BB ratio, so I do think he got a lot of swings and misses….perhaps not early enough in the count. Phil’s change seems to be coming along nicely, which is all we can ask for.
Pat M, you’re one of the posters I was referring to that I don’t see on NYYFans (or elsewhere, to be honest).
because the end game is the kids to be starters. if they dont get the 5 spot, they will be there soon enough.
I actually hope Calhoun does retire. Enjoy the next 10 – 20 yrs of your life, Jimmy. You dont need the stress anymore.
Best part of Mike vs Carlin was returning from the break and saying he loves Carlin.
http://twitter.com/ChrisCarlinSNY
Trevor, then Joe is an idiot and so are the Yankees. Since I do not believe that to be the case, I don’t believe for one second that Ace, Mitre or Gaudin are seriously in the running. I would really question the team if they installed any of those guys as the #5 starter based on ST.
“5 pitchers all have an equal chance going in”
I can’t resist – obviously some chances are more equal than others.
Looks like Mad Dog made the right move getting away from that blowhard.
saw that francesa blowoff…makes for good tv and radio..mike called him out…he was right.
Patrick
March 10th, 2010 at 3:24 pm
trevor,
Oh yeah well my father’s, uncle’s, best friend’s roomate went to pre-school with Brian Cashman and he told me that Cashman said the competition is between Hughes and Chamberlain.
****************************
LMAO
In his interview with Francessa, Cashman talked about the rotation and the fifth spot. He said that the best team for 2010 probably has Joba and Phil in the bullpen but he then went on to say that it’s probably not in the team’s best long-term interests. In my opinion he hinted pretty heavily that it is very very doubtful that Phil or Joba doesn’t win the job.
so both hughes and joba have been shaky… they both get 2 more Spring starts?
JK, you’re right, but people will worry anyway. With Joba, there may be concern because folks are going to want to know why he no longer throws 97. Phil is just a few ticks off from his ideal velocity; I’m looking forward to hearing what he has to say.
thats why they call carlins show “blowhards.” sorry that’s “loudmouths.” same thing.
Patrick
March 10th, 2010 at 3:24 pm
trevor,
“Oh yeah well my father’s, uncle’s, best friend’s roomate went to pre-school with Brian Cashman and he told me that Cashman said the competition is between Hughes and Chamberlain.”
Did this happen at 31 Flavors last night?
trevor thanks for the information. There are quite a few of us who know that the spot is up for grabs and I personally love the competition aspect. It’s far too early to tell how it will shake out but it’s good to know they’re going for the best. A lot of people believe that Hughes and Chamberlain had the upper hand going in, meaning that they were the favorites in the race. It may be that the others would really have to outpitch both of them for neither one to get the start. But I’m okay with that too. It’s going to be a fun watch.
SJ, would you agree the Yanks are letting Joba down slowly by letting him pitch his way out of a starting job?
It seems the organization doesn’t believe he has the mental makeup to start.
JohnC
March 10th, 2010 at 3:28 pm
Looks like Mad Dog made the right move getting away from that blowhard.
————————–
ummmmm, no. I like Russo and I listen to his channel on Sirius. But the fact is that his show (and channel) does not perform like Sirius hoped it would. And the other fact is, love him or hate him, Francessa’s ratings have just rolled along. I think they’re down slightly since Russo left, but ratings on all of regular radio are down. Mike’s rating dropped only a smidge in comparison.
I should mention that I rarely listen to Mike’s show.
mick March 10th, 2010 at 3:29 pm
saw that francesa blowoff… makes for good tv and radio..mike called him out…he was right.
*************************************
Makes for great radio, wonder what it does for personal relationships though, Mike seems to be defending Carlin a bit now, maybe feeling bad about that hangup.
Betsy, I likeit here, I like the people here, plus I don’t want my LoHud green card revoked……I went from Bronx Banter to RAB, to Replacement Level Yankees, and I found my way here in the ealry 07…I’m hanging out here, this place has it all…..Besides I enjoy the ladies perspective on the game…There was a time that was not even a consideration….Brings much to the table, even though I almost run out of town last winter for my clubhouse remark…..Claire put a hit on me
Well Patrick, another way to look at what Cashman said would be to have one in the pen and one at AAA…
trisha,
I agree, competition is good but spring training means almost nothing. You choose the 12th starter and 13th position player based on ST competition, not the 5th starter.
Stopped listening to Francessa a long time ago. The way he treats callers is shameful. God forbod you disagree with him or call him out on anything. He shouts them down and hangs up on them. Michael Kay at ESPN radio is mich better. Will always let the caller make his point before responding.
Why would you say Hughes has pitched poorly this spring? As far as spring training goes, he’s pitched just fine. He’s getting his work in and building arm strength. And the results have been fine too (not that they matter).
trisha,
Why would Phil or Joba go to AAA after spending all of 2009 in the majors contributing to a championship team?
Her cousin has always said that Joe Girardi is a great guy and a straight shooter. No reason not to believe him.
Looks like Yanks have tied it at 7. Miranda up now.
people be calm, its the 10th of march, for god’s sake. even girardi said before the game that what joba and phil did today wouldnt really matter that much.
people get waaaaay too tied up in knots about what happens int he first week of ST. people on here have aceves in the rotation and colin curtis starting in LF already! have some perspective, these guys have been in the yankees system for years, the yankees know what they are and what they are likely to do and one week of ST games isnt going to make a big change in that. there is no room in the yankees OF for curtis, and the yankees arent going to throw phil and joba into the pen because aceves has a few good outings vs. half minor league lineups in ST.
chill…
Brackman is in. First batter gets an infield single, he’s between 89-91 on the gun
I’m sorry Mike is hilarious. He did half a show trying to find a sterling call for Nick Swisher lol
carlin loves any controversy that comes hiw way…he’s thanking mike for getting into it with him…that’s why he floats phony stories from team managers saying Calhoun is retiring.
trying to make a name for himself and someday take mike’s job.
Pat, you? A serial poster? You’ve settled down nicely, I see, and are now faithful to one board. I love the fact that there are plenty of ladies here who love sports. I can’t remember a time when I didn’t love sports. I’m something of a tomboy, no doubt.
I can’t help but listen to Mike sometimes, but boy – he is rude to callers and interrupts his interviewees. Kay drives me crazy at times, but he’s personally a very nice guy and treats his callers with respect.
trevor
March 10th, 2010 at 3:37 pm
Her cousin has always said that Joe Girardi is a great guy and a straight shooter. No reason not to believe him.
————————————————————
Well, this cinches it for me. Only an insider would know stuff like this. I believe you.
Really want to see Brackman step forward this year.
JohnC March 10th, 2010 at 3:35 pm
Stopped listening to Francessa a long time ago. The way he treats callers is shameful. God forbod you disagree with him or call him out on anything. He shouts them down and hangs up on them. Michael Kay at ESPN radio is mich better. Will always let the caller make his point before responding.
——————————–
That’s why he gets the ratings over Kay.
JohnC,
Well, that’s a different story. Saying you dont like him and have moved on is absolutely your right. But saying Russo made the right move leaving, is wrong.
Have to say though, I think Kay it a tool. Can’t stand that guy on the radio and think he’s even worse doing the games.
CC, I think (without knowing ANY details beyond what Sam provided) that Phil has been ok. He’s obviously breaking off some decent change-ups, which is very encouraging.
Mick:
Never said anything about the ratings. I personally like Kay’s show alot better than Francessa’s
Guiel wore #46 ! So Unthinkable but it happened when he was in NY
Y’s Guy March 10th, 2010 at 3:38 pm
people be calm, its the 10th of march, for god’s sake. even girardi said before the game that what joba and phil did today wouldnt really matter that much.
people get waaaaay too tied up in knots about what happens int he first week of ST. people on here have aceves in the rotation and colin curtis starting in LF already! have some perspective, these guys have been in the yankees system for years, the yankees know what they are and what they are likely to do and one week of ST games isnt going to make a big change in that. there is no room in the yankees OF for curtis, and the yankees arent going to throw phil and joba into the pen because aceves has a few good outings vs. half minor league lineups in ST.
chill…
———————————————————-
this place never surprises me. the date is march 10 and they are fanatics up in arms about this performance, that lack of performance, etc…
so glad these same fanatics have no influence with the Yankees.
The way Michael Kay treated A-Rod during the steroid mess made me kinda uhhhh. He killed A-Rod more than any beat writer host ever did.
Brackman has given up 2 infield singles and hit a guy, he topped out at 94 on his last pitch and sat around 91
Mick,
That’s been my read on the situation since the off-season.
I think folks are kidding themselves if they believe there is a true “open” competition for that spot.
Sure, we can parse public quotes until the cows come home.
However, if you don’t believe the Yankees have a pecking order as to who they want to win in that spot, you are kidding yourself.
Dominating split squad games isn’t going to thrust somebody into the mix.
So far, Hughes has done NOTHING to hurt himself. He is throwing the changeup often and with more consistency. His rhythm is solid. For the second outing in the spring, he’s doing just fine.
I think the other 3 guys (I say 3 because I don’t see Ace as a starter. Girardi loves his versatility too much in the pen and his back isn’t going to allow him to throw 150+ innings), are all looking up at Hughes.
Its his job to lose and ST stats aren’t going to be the deciding factor.
Patrick, both Cashman and Girardi have said repeatedly that 5 guys are vying for the 5th starter role. They didn’t say the 12th or 13th starter. Now trevor is saying he’s heard the same thing from someone close to Girardi. Maybe it’s Phil or Joba’s to lose, I don’t know. But I don’t think they smokescreen. They have no reason to.
They were both with the club but not in a starting role. The only reason someone would be shipped to AAA I would think would be to keep them stretched out and competitive. Look, I am one of Phil’s biggest supporters. I believe he is destined to be a starter. The only unknown is when.
So are the Yankees going to base their 5ht starter decision on a month of spring training where players are still getting into game shape? Or are they going to make a decision based on the last 3 years of performance in the big leagues?
This is a tough one, don’t mess up!
Kay is in love w/ his own voice
Girardi is a wise man. He knows in this era of Twitter, Facebook, and other social media, anything he says to somebody about the “competition” becomes a chance for a leak to take place.
He’s going to tote the party line that’s its “open” because its a safe answer.
However, all teams have preconcieved ideas of who they want in certain roles on the team. A guy has to play themselves off those roles in ST rather than play their way onto them.
Mainly because, experienced baseball people know making player evaluations in ST is often fools gold.
Brett Tomko and Billy Traber come to mind most recently.
Dominant ST performers for the Yankees. Not so dominant when given chances when the games counted.
SJ
It’s a no brainer to me. Joba’s game is built on emotion from his strikeout celebrations to his pre-game prayer ritual on the mound.
Said it all along , he is built to relieve. Nothing wrong with that. They gave him a chance and saw things they didn’t like.
The fix is in. But really they did give him a fair chance.
i was laughing my butt off yesterday about the coverage of strassburg’s outing yesterday. they said he was throwing upper 90′s and blowing everyone away with his curve. well of course on march 9th if hes throwing upper 90′s he’s gonna blow people away, because there is no reason for pitchers to be bringing that kind of heat this early in ST. ditto with the curve, most SP’s just started breaking off curves last week.
maybe strassburg came to camp way ahead of everyone to try to win a spot on the team and if so, good for him, but anyone throwing like that this early is likely to have trouble keeping it going late into the season.
he may turn out to be a great major league pitcher, but blowing it past guys in the first week of ST to me shows more immaturity than stuff.
Aaron:
Did Brackman get anyone out?
trisha,
You are basing your opinion on what Girardi and Cashman have said in the media. Don’t you realize that coaches and GM’s hide and twist the truth? Sometimes they straight up lie. It doesn’t make them bad people, just a part of the job.
I want to hear some logical reason why Gaudin, Mitre or Aceves have a chance against Hughes and Chamberlain. Nobody has been able to provide that yet
re: Kay………….the Yankees are the greatest baseball team, but they feature one of the worst play by play broadcasters in the business=Kay
the only time i can tolerate Kay is when either Paulie is in the booth or when Flaherty is in the booth.
Since Kaat left, Singleton has been my favorite. I liked Cone too. Too bad he’s gone.
Brackman 1 inning, 2 hits, 1 run (earned), 0 walks 1 srikeout
“Talk Show 101″
Strasburg has insanely good stuff therefore he’s immature.
Does not compute.
Brackman got through an inning, gave up a run and k’ed the last guy on a 94 mph fb. Looked promising once he settled down
JohnC,
Brack got a DP and through 3 straight strikes, caught looking on all of ‘em, for the K.
It’s off of gameday.
re: 5th starter………………whomever wins the spot coming out of ST, i just want that person to earn the job.
Joba has been groomed to be a starter the past couple yrs. his training wheels are off. i just can’t imagine that the Yankees would “give up on him” as a starter depending on how well/not well he pitches in March 2010.
i can say this-if Andy did not return for another season, i think Joba would already have a job as the #4 starter.
competition is a positive. all 5 of those hurlers in the mix for 1 job will only result in something positive for the team.
the decision won’t be easy. the decision might not actually happen until March 31.
Mike doesn’t understand “Tweeter.” Funny.
Thanks Aaron, Bodisattva.
Trisha,
A person high up on the Yankees food chain told me in the off-season the 5th starters job was “Hughes’ to lose”.
That was confirmed to me by someone else close to the team before ST.
In the end, I guess you can say there is a “competition” in some sense.
However, they aren’t going to take ST stats and say, “Sergio Mitre’s ERA and WHIP were better in the Spring than the other 4 guys so, he is the #5 starter”.
No team in baseball decides a position that way.
More and more people with the Yankees, and this has been confirmed by numerous sources, want to see Hughes as the 5th starter and Joba back in the bullpen because they believe that’s the best place for each guy for a variety of reasons.
They have a GREAT reason to “smokescreen”. They want to challenge each guy to give their best everyday.
If you tell a guy he doesn’t really have a chance at a spot on the team, their effort isn’t going to be the same as it would be if they believe they have a shot.
When you get the best out of everybody, it gives you options. Especially if you have a pitching glut.
That opens up the trade market to you.
That’s why the party line of “open competition” will be uttered throughout camp.
At the end of the day, the Yankees know who they want in that spot.
They are just hoping the guy they want doesn’t pitch himself out of contention.
Joba has been groomed to be a starter the past couple yrs. his training wheels are off. i just can’t imagine that the Yankees would “give up on him” as a starter depending on how well/not well he pitches in March 2010.
=============================================
You are right. They gave up on him based on last year.
lol @ mike calling it a tweeter
patrick, I would say they would have to do based it on ST because, you know, none of the playahs spent their season last year startingfor the Yankees. You read me buddy? So you know, it’s kind of hard to just throw 5 names in the air (that would be the other way to do it, right?) and take the one that comes down first.
SJ, what does a leak have to do with it??? What would be wrong with saying that two people are vying for the 5th starter position?
Anyway, since you called another pitching situation (Gaudin last year) wrong, I can’t take your pitching calls to the bank anymore. Sorry.
Now is it possible that Joba or Phil end up with the job?
Sure. Time will tell.
what im saying is he is way ahead of all the other pitchers. these hitters havent seen upper 90′s yet this spring, so they looked foolish against him. he’s throwing mid summer stuff on march 9th and making people look foolish. he’ll have to be blowing people away in april before im impressed by it.
one of the toughest things for a pitcher starting his pro career is learning to keep his stuff going over the very long haul of a pro season, and it is very unwise for a guy right out of college to come to camp already throwing at almost full velocity. now i dont blame him, he’s just trying to make the team, but the nat’s should have slowed him down and told him throwing like that this early is going to hurt him as the season drags on.
kudos to strassburg for coming in ready and wanting to show what he has, but someone needs to tell him that fatigue in the later part of the season is likely to be his biggest hurdle this year and starting out way ahead of the hitters and all the other pitchers is just going to make that worse.
YankeesWFAN Joba got tired in the 3rd. Hughes still working on his changeup. Next time they go out will be Mar 16. That’s when the battle really starts. 2 minutes ago
Carl, he was rough on Alex….but he’s always liked him. I saw a bit of George King’s article today about the investigation and I wanted to lose my lunch, it was so biased.
Today was a lousy day not to be televised. I would have killed to see Phil – I wonder if they will show highlights on MLB tonight. SJ, did you see highlights of his outing? In any case, I trust your judgment, so if you say he looked fine, I believe it.
This is not an open competition no matter what Joe and Cash say……
Joba should take being the 8th inning guy as a compliment. The same fans who berate the Yanks for not starting Joba will shout the loudest when the game is over after 7.
BAm.. Golston takes the lead in the 9th.
Nomar has retired a RS. Signs one day contract and calls it quits. Guess he loved it there?
Greg golston just hit a bomb, it mustve went 420 feet. Yanks up by 1 in the top of the 9th
trisha,
Except all 5 pitchers the Yankees are considering for the 5th spot in the rotation started games for the team last year. And they all have track records as starting pitchers.
Spring training is against inferior competition and half (or more) of it is spent getting into shape. Not to mention it’s a tiny sample size to base this kind of decision on.
Golson with the go-ahead bomb?? WOOOOOOOHOOOOOO!!!!!!!
Mick,
Its funny, going around ST this year following my nephew, I’ve had a chance to talk to a lot of my friends in the game working on field for other teams.
Its almost universal how they believe Joba belongs in the bullpen.
Pitching coaches believe his mechanics have a hard time holding up over 35 starts, 100+ pitches a start, and 200 innings. They also feel he isn’t a good thinker on the mound. They believe a simpler approach produces a better Joba and that comes pitching out of the pen.
GM’s feel his previous injury history is a warning that his workload may be not be starter worthy over the long haul.
Some numbers folks chart how his effectiveness wanes as his pitch count rises.
Me? I’ve always been on the Joba has to be a starter” bandwagon.
However, I have to admit, when you talk to baseball people, folks who forgot more than I will ever know about the game, they give compelling arguments why he should be in the pen. If nothing else, it makes you think.
SJ44,
“Its his job to lose and ST stats aren’t going to be the deciding factor.”
Do you mean Joba or Phil?
The Yanks are going to be disappointed if they invested so much energy into limiting Joba’s innings and he doesn’t win the job.
If Phil ends up as the 5th starter, let’s hope they do a better job of limiting his innings than they did with Joba last year. I like the way the the Tigers limited Rick Porcello’s innings last year. They simply shut him down from July 5 through July 21. Then they limited his next 2 starts to 5 innings. After that, the baby shoes came off and he was good to go.
Nomar has retired a RS. Signs one day contract and calls it quits. Guess he loved it there?
___
gave them more respect than they deserve for dumping him like yesterday’s garbage.
SJ I have no difficulty in believing that the spot is Phil’s to lose. I have continued to say that. But he could lose it. That’s different than Betsy’s continuing neurotic mantra that it’s only between Phil and Joba. Because if both of them fell apart like a house of cards, you can believe that the Yankee organization would feel no sense of loyalty to slot one of them into the 5th spot. The Joe Torre era is over. I also agree with you that at this point in time it is appearing that between the two, Joba likely would be best suited for the pen.
JMO
Y guy,
How do you know Strasburg is pitching with his full stuff? I’m not sure you realize just how good he is. His stuff early in spring training will be better than 95% of any pitcher in mid-July.
tex’s friend March 10th, 2010 at 4:05 pm
gave them more respect than they deserve for dumping him like yesterday’s garbage.
———————
Meh. Not to totally absolve the Red Sox because their swine when it comes to getting rid of players, but the guy didn’t exactly conduct himself in the best manner toward the end of his time there either.
If Golson’s bat finally develops, we may have quite a steal.
SJ
I have a hard time believing you were on the Joba starter wagon.
My gut feeling all along was that he was an electric reliever but that the Yanks had to give him his shot. That was the right thing to do.
I still believe Colin Curtis should be on this team at an outfielder over hoffman and co.
SJ44,
Joba’s mechanics for almost all of last year were so bad it doesn’t really matter where he pitches, he’s not going to do well. Putting him in the pen masks the problem rather then solves it. Fix his mechanics and get him to throw like he was in 2007, 2008 and he can pitch anywhere he wants.
if either joba or hughes doesn’t get the 5th starter position, cashman’s minor league starter development plan for the past 4 years is a total failure.
cashman has no intention of calling his development of hughes and joba a failure.
that, to me, is why joba or hughes will be the fifth starter.
Drive 4-5, that works for me. I hope that’s what the Yankees do….
Let me be clear about one thing.
If Phil ends up being the 8th inning guy in 2010, that is wonderful.
If Joba assumes that role, that is also wonderful.
We can’t lose either way or can we?
I have confidence in them both as the role of set-up man for
Mo.
ok patrick i get that he has good stuff, but who is throwing upper 90′s and sharp curves now? pretty much nobody. are you saying that he’s in the upper 90′s and he’s only throwing 85% like most guys are? that would mean he should top out at just under 110 mph.
i get that he has good stuff, but the hitters are just 2 weeks into hitting and they have mostly been hitting off minor leaguers who are thowing at 80% and coaches so far. then they go out and face a guy whos throwing real smoke. what do you think is going to happen?
Patrick, yes they all have been starters and if you go on their most recent starting performances outside of ST, Gaudin would have the edge.
Do I believe the job is (at this point between the two) Phil’s to lose? Yes I do. Do I think he could lose it – not that he will? Yes I do.
Ryan Pope is closing for the Yanks.
Curtis and Golson are making a push for that 4th OF spot.
mo said on francessa that if he was in charge, joba would be his 8th inning guy, fwiw.
Trish resorting to insults? Neurotic? Hmm, psychoanalyzing someone she’s never met over the internet. I laugh.
Golson continue that hitting please, love GGBG but if you turn into what you should be …it’s gonna be Brett who.
Romine just gunned a guy, #96 pitching for the yanks…he hit 95, guy has a live arm. Game over, yanks win
if Mo did say that, then what else is there to say.
i trust Mo and his judgement.
Joba-Meet the pen.
Bullpen-Meet Joba!
LOL
I really believe that Brett Gardner will be the next Bubba Crosby. We won’t hear from him again after the next year or two. Not being negative, I love Brett and he plays hard. Just saying…
SJ, here’s another reason I do not believe all this “public consumption” drivel. Once you put it out there, you have to stand behind it. It’s going to be very difficult for Girardi and Cashman to stand in front of the press and explain the discrepancy between their thoughts and their actions if one of the other three has a really outstanding ST compared to the two favorites, and one of the other three isn’t chosen.
That said, I still agree that the two kids went into it with a head start.
The rest will play itself out. And isn’t it good that that’s the case? I think so.
Pope closes out the win with a save. 1 inning, 1 hit, 0 runs, 0 walks, 2 strikeouts.
Y’s Guy
March 10th, 2010 at 4:13 pm
mo said on francessa that if he was in charge, joba would be his 8th inning guy, fwiw.
****************
That settles it for me. What Mo says goes.
Mo and Po both proclaimed Joba the 8th inning guy. Next will be Jo.
Alrighty fair enough trisha. I see what you’re saying.
Y’s guy,
Well Strasburg does top out at 100 so it’s not insane that he can throw in the mid-90′s right now.
Maybe he’s pushing himself but he’s just a rookie, he’ll learn. When it’s all said and done he will probably be one of the best pitchers in the big leagues so I wouldn’t worry too much about it.
the yankees are not going to put both hughes & joba in the pen
that would put a hold on developing 2 young starters wich is not happening
it is between hughes & joba & nobody else unless one goes to the pen & one to AAA
that is the only way i see someone other than hughes & joba getting the 5th spot
all hughes or joba have to do is pitch ok to get a spot but right now hughes is in the lead
mick March 10th, 2010 at 4:19 pm
Mo and Po both proclaimed Joba the 8th inning guy. Next will be Jo.
——————-
It’ll take a lot for the Lo to recognize it tho.
Randy,
As often is the case, you are correct. Cashman isn’t going to put a journeyman pitcher in the 5th unless Phil and Joba both fall flat on their face or get injured. The rotation is plenty good enough to handle some growing pains out of the 5th rotation spot.
Alright, Romine!
Trisha,
You can ask Pat M after reading this post, if its truthful or not.
Teams don’t use ST results to make decisions on veteran players. They already know what they have in each of the 5 guys.
The playing field in ST games is never even. Early on, the pitchers are ahead of the hitters. Often, guys don’t even face many major league hitters in the spring.
How in the world would a team make a decision on a rotation spot based on that? It wouldn’t make any sense.
They know who they want in that spot.
They need however to keep all 5 guys competing because, its professional sports and you compete all the time. The last thing you want are guys disengaged or disenchanted because it messes up your camp.
Every one of these guys have track records.
The Yankees also know they need one of their younger arms to get into the starting rotation.
This is not about evaluating ST games and deciding who pitched the best in March and give them a job.
If that was the case, CC Sabathia would be fighting for a rotation spot right now.
Like I said, ask Pat M his opinion on this if you don’t believe me.
15 wins for phil this season.
“That’s different than Betsy’s continuing neurotic mantra that it’s only between Phil and Joba.”
trisha-
did you really just call betsy” neurotic” ?
let me go back and read that again.
yup, that’s what you said.
for someone who doesn’t even know yesterday that ian kennedy was traded over the winter don’t you kind of think you ought to tone it down with the name calling.
i mean, who on the blog didn’t know that ian kennedy was traded except for you ?
i don’t have a problem with your lack of knowledge about simple things like kennedy, but when you start with the patented trisha name calling in addition to not having a clue, it’s time to tell you to knock it off.
“That settles it for me. What Mo says goes.”
He said the same thing about Hughes.
Now I see on boards that people are comparing Phil’s “lack of velocity” to when he came to camp in 2007 (when Jorge compared him to a young Clemens). Darn – he’s not throwing 95 MPH right off the bat – he must stink.
I always understood both sides in the Joba sweepstakes but because of his pitching repertoire and his power thought that he was well suited to start. Maybe that’s still in the cards for him at some point. Nobody can predict the future – well nobody here anyway!
My father is an attorney, too, and he could argue anything he put his mind to, just like Trisha. The difference is that he doesn’t judge people for having a difference of opinion and he sure doesn’t psychoanalyze them. The next step is Trish prescribing medication for me…….
Not that it is a bad thing for this 5th starter competition.
Say Phil wins it and goes down early on and Joba is entrenched in the 8th inning role. Who gets the call then? Let Mitre and Gaudin fight it out. One of them could be #5 very easily. And one of them could very well be dealt.
i dont know when mo said he preferred hughes as his set-up man, im don’t question that he did at some point, but i was referrring to mo’s interview with francessa last friday. francessa said, if you were in charge, who would set you up and without any hesitation mo said joba.
“Once you put it out there, you have to stand behind it.”
Or what?
Drive,
Phil’s high in innings was 146. He’s also far enough along in his pro career where his innings cap is not 30 innings above last year. Its 30 innings above his previous high.
In other words, he can pitch between 150-175 innings, well within what #5 starters work, making his innings limit a non-factor in the discussion.
Trisha,
How is “drivel”? Its the perfect statement to stand by. Neither guy can lose making that statement.
Put it to you another way….. wouldn’t you say that if its a true “competition” then, the guy with the best ST stats wins the job.
If that doesn’t happen, and either Hughes or Joba are named the 5th starter, then its pretty clear it wasn’t really a “competition” because chances are neither guy will have the best ST numbers of the five pitchers in the competition.
Y’s Guy…All I know is that the curveball that Strasburg threw to Migiel Carbrera was insaine…It reminded me of the bender that Verlander threw to Alex in Game 2 of the ALDS in 06 with the bases loaded…..
NYPost_Kernan Hughes was working on his changeup, Joba was working on trying to get the ball inside so Joe Girardi is giving them a pass until next time 46 seconds ago
Judging by the ST numbers, I’d hate to be Girardi when he has to tell Granderson, Jeter and Rodriguez that they didn’t make the 25 man roster because Russo, Pena and Curtis are starting at 3rd, SS and left field.
betsy-
my advice when you run into someone like trisha is to go right back at her when she throws out that kind of nonsense.
simple question betsy.
did you know ian kennedy was traded?
i think we already know the answer.
trisha didn’t.
case closed.
Trish is an attorney? Wow, I’m impressed.
Pena will make the team (backup IF) and Curtis should make the team (as the 5th OF).
Don’t have time to read through the days posts so maybe this has already been discussed, but I think it’s time for Yankee fans to boycott ESPN.
Enough is enough. Read this and decide for yourselves:
http://sports.espn.go.com/fant.....mrlovehate
“Trish resorting to insults? Neurotic? Hmm, psychoanalyzing someone she’s never met over the internet. I laugh.”
Betsy, I wasn’t saying that you are neurotic. I was calling your continuing mantra in this situation neurotic. It wasn’t meant to be any heavy-duty psychoanalysis. Accept my apologies if it came out that way.
By the way laughter is a good thing.
GreenBeret7
March 10th, 2010 at 4:31 pm
Judging by the ST numbers, I’d hate to be Girardi when he has to tell Granderson, Jeter and Rodriguez that they didn’t make the 25 man roster because Russo, Pena and Curtis are starting at 3rd, SS and left field.
*************************
LMAO
That would be some team in AAA though.
Trish, haven’t you been on a “neurotic mantra” over the competition for the 5th starter job?
Randy,
Orioles-Pirates on the MLB Channel tonight at 7.
Don’t know if my nephew is playing tonight. I’m guessing not but, you never know.
Proof that ST #’s are meaningless right now: Cody Ransom hit 2 HRs today.
im sorry, curtis will make the team based on what? did one week of ST put him so far ahead of mlb experienced guys like thames and winn that they can’t possibly catch back up? or is is that he’s such a highly thought of prospect that he can’t be held back?
i like curtis, he was the big star at the first lohud scranton trip as i remember. and i saw him win a couple games at trenton, too. but where does he rate a spot on the roster at this point?
posada, then re thought that statement and said he should be a starter
pat
March 10th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
Proof that ST #’s are meaningless right now: Cody Ransom hit 2 HRs today.
***************
Glad Cody Ransom is tapping into his power
Erin, that makes no sense. I mean, Joe is giving Phil two ST to get his change to the point where it’s a solid pitch for him already? I hope that’s not what he said, because that would be absolutely ridiculous. If he throws some bad changes next out and he gets killed, that’s going to cost Phil? That’s not fair……..
Does Phil even need a pass for today? I don’t know what his stats were, but it’s not like he got bombed.
“Betsy, I wasn’t saying that you are neurotic. I was calling your continuing mantra in this situation neurotic. ”
oh that makes it all better.
what a joke.
“Trish, haven’t you been on a “neurotic mantra” over the competition for the 5th starter job?”
Well I don’t think I have summarily shut out the thought that either Joba or Phil has the edge going into the competition, so I would have to say that’s a “no”. I have rather been open to the thought that one or the other could lose the job. But that’s only rational thinking.
He’ll probably hit 2 HR’s in first two AB’s as a philly, and then do nothing else until they cut him.
SJ is calling it right in my opinion…..There maybe 4 spots on the Big Club that is up for grabs….Most of the guys who know they have no shot going North are fighhting for positions in Scranton, Trenton so they have a chance of being moved up…..Some don’t care for the way SJ delivers the news, however for the most part he makes the right call…..Besides, he’s always on the record, for 2 nd guessing and to be the first to get ragged on….I respect people who lay it on the line, because the higher the profile the more of a target they are….Tricia, you’re a fine example of this…..You wear a bulleye
Erin
March 10th, 2010 at 4:34 pm
GreenBeret7
March 10th, 2010 at 4:31 pm
Judging by the ST numbers, I’d hate to be Girardi when he has to tell Granderson, Jeter and Rodriguez that they didn’t make the 25 man roster because Russo, Pena and Curtis are starting at 3rd, SS and left field.
*************************
LMAO
That would be some team in AAA though.
————————————————————
Yeah, but, you really can’t compare their minor league numbers to the Majors. I’d probably say about 60%. They do show some promise as utility players, though, with a little seasoning..
Randy, is that true?
Trish, calling my posts neurotic is still insulting, but you’re a nice person and I don’t think you meant anything by it. Apology accepted…and yes, laughter is a good thing. It’s what gets me by and I’d like to think it’s what keeps me young.
“Orioles-Pirates on the MLB Channel tonight at 7.”
sj44-
thanks.
i needed to get my mind on to other things
i’ll be sure to tune it in.
that’s funny, boycott espn over matthew berry! LOL! ok, so i’ll skip monday night football next year because on of thier fantasy baseball bloggers who tries as hard as he can to be a clown is a professed yankees hater…that makes sense to me….
Trisha
“He stunk in the post-season last year.”
SJ44 said this about Hughes. How come you didn’t jump on him the way you jumped on me when I said Igawa stinks.
Selective prosecution, counselor?
If there’s any reason to Boycott ESPN it’s Rob Neyer.
Betsy -Romine wasn’t built in a day
March 10th, 2010 at 4:40 pm
Erin, that makes no sense. I mean, Joe is giving Phil two ST to get his change to the point where it’s a solid pitch for him already? I hope that’s not what he said, because that would be absolutely ridiculous. If he throws some bad changes next out and he gets killed, that’s going to cost Phil? That’s not fair……..
****************************
Betsy, I don’t think Girardi actually said that-he said something earlier about how he’s not going to really start to judge them until next week, so I think that was Kernan summing it up by saying they both got a pass today.
pat
March 10th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
Proof that ST #’s are meaningless right now: Cody Ransom hit 2 HRs today.
————————————————————
The Yankees would be a better team with Ransom playing third instead of Rodriguez. That’s what some expert said lat year.
I am sure when trisha referred to betsy having a “neurotic mantra”, she meant it in the sense of “repetitive”, “overly focused on one thing”, rather than in any psychologically insulting sense.
Been away for a while, but in scrolling through some of the comments from the last few weeks people seem a little more testy than usual, given that we are in those heady, optimistic, everything is possible days of early ST.
For the record, Hughes’ final line 2 2/3 IP, 3 hits,, one run, two strikeouts.
From Marc Carig’s Twitter…
**Objectively speaking, without having seen him, that is NOT a bad line. Phil gave up the run in the first inning he pitched in, I believe.
New Post: Here’s why you don’t get caught up in the stats
Okay Pat M, I’m with ya. I actually think what SJ and I think are different only in the matter of degree involved. In the end I agree that it’s likely Phil or Joba’s job to lose. But I do think one or the other could lose it if they both had dreadful STs. I don’t think that’s unreasonable.
Rose
March 10th, 2010 at 4:44 pm
Trisha
“He stunk in the post-season last year.”
SJ44 said this about Hughes. How come you didn’t jump on him the way you jumped on me when I said Igawa stinks.
Selective prosecution, counselor?
————————————————————
cape fear
lol
New post on why the stats just don’t matter as much as you think. Come on over!
Erin, you’re probably right. Joe is way too smart to even think that way…….
“I am sure when trisha referred to betsy having a “neurotic mantra”, she meant it in the sense of “repetitive”, “overly focused on one thing”, rather than in any psychologically insulting sense.”
Thank you Wave, that is exactly what I meant.
Betsy -Romine wasn’t built in a day
March 10th, 2010 at 4:42 pm
Randy, is that true?
Trish, calling my posts neurotic is still insulting, but you’re a nice person and I don’t think you meant anything by it. Apology accepted…and yes,
***laughter is a good thing. It’s what gets me by and I’d like to think it’s what keeps me young.***
————————————————————
I’m not sure about that statement, Betsy. It hasn’t done much to keep Randy and Pat M. young. Two old prunes out on the golf course with their walkers?
betsy-
i was being sarcastic towards trisha’s statement.
nothing of what she said to you was right.
i was sticking up for you all the way.
trisha needs to learn to dial it back or take it somewhere else.
Catching up….. Jeter driving a Mercedes? We need Derek to have his Edge this year!
My son was buzzing for days about seeing Derek driving a light blue Ferrari when he was at ST a few weeks ago. The visual of Derek in that with Alex riding shotgun is much better. Head turns at stoplights would be video-worthy.
Betsy, and you know I feel the same way about you. Thanks. It really was a poor choice of words, but I sincerely did mean it the way Wave took it.
We’ll always be friends.
“Trisha
“He stunk in the post-season last year.”
SJ44 said this about Hughes. How come you didn’t jump on him the way you jumped on me when I said Igawa stinks.
Selective prosecution, counselor?”
Rose
Believe me with the firestorm going on here, I actually missed that line. However, there is a difference in saying someone stunk in the postseason, and that the person stinks.
Joba appears destined for the bullpen unless he has a sudden turnaround in his next few outings.
Same as last year. He lack the stamina and conditioning to go further than 40 pitches.
“Believe me with the firestorm going on here, I actually missed that line. However, there is a difference in saying someone stunk in the postseason, and that the person stinks.”
Yo must be a good lawyer.
SJ44 said it about a pitcher who is talented. I said it about a pitcher who isn’t even on the 40 man roster and will do no better than AAA.
I have said it from day 1…Joba is overrated and will never be a SP or even a RP of any value in this league, they should have put him in a package for Halladay