Boy, that escalated quickly!
Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Mar 11, 2010 
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Some of you may have seen the viral video making the rounds on the internet featuring a ridiculous Cuban baseball brawl (involving, I kid you not, two bats). If you haven’t – or even if you have – check out this tidy wrap-up by good buddy Big League Stew, who compiles just what precipitated the entire thing and also embedded the clip.
If you’re like me, watching the clip quickly brings to mine this classic exchange in the movie “Anchorman”:
Ron Burgundy: Boy, that escalated quickly… I mean, that really got out of hand fast.
Champ Kind: It jumped up a notch.
Ron Burgundy: It did, didn’t it?
Brick Tamland: Yeah, I stabbed a man in the heart.
Ron Burgundy: I saw that. Brick killed a guy. … Did you throw a trident?
Brick Tamland: Yeah, there were horses, and a man on fire, and I killed a guy with a trident.
Ron Burgundy (calmly): Brick, I’ve been meaning to talk to you about that. You should find yourself a safehouse or a relative close by. Lay low for a while, because you’re probably wanted for murder.
Lol.
“Don’t pretend like your not impressed.”
I think I ate your chocolate squirrel…
I love that scene from Anchorman
lol, Sam. Based on the title, I would’ve guessed this was a post about Torii Hunter’s comments. If you were going for two birds with that stone, kudos!
This post is right over my head as I’ve never seen Anchorman, lol
Nice! I miss this kind of fun stuff on the blog since Pete left.
that catcher has good foot speed.
quick feet for a big man.
i like how he keeps his bat in nice ready position when running.
nice mechanics there.
and then when the whole opposing team charges him once he gets to center field, he gets the bat back in proper position.
very impressive conditioning too.
that was a long run.
if molina did that, they’d have to send out a golf cart to get him back to the dugout.
We are pleased to announce that the elite Red Beret unit of Red Sox Nation has swiftly moved into Cuba and assisted the deportation of both bat-wielding players. We were able to squeeze a little bit more out of our small-market payroll budget, and they have been moved onto the 40-man roster.
These players are undeniably gritty and will fit in well here in Boston, for as we well know, the ability to charge the mound, throw helmets, or punch batters for little or no reason is what wins pennants.
we don’t know what gardner will be
we can only speculate
we won a ws with arod’s war the lowest it has been in his career except when he first came up
we won a ws with arod having a low war in comparison & melky in cf
we have a healthy arod & vaz now
it is simple
if gardner can’t do the job he won’t be in lf for long
he probably is just holding it down for a year anyways
for what it’s worth
melkey had a 1.7 war in 09
gardner a 2.0 war in 09
some players do it with the bat,others with the glove
gardners war is projected to be between 2.1-2.3 in 2010
melky 1.4-3.3
according to the projections best case scenario melky is worth 1 more win in 2010
60 percent of the time, it works everytime…
These players are undeniably gritty and will fit in well here in Boston, for as we well know, the ability to charge the mound, throw helmets, or punch batters for little or no reason is what wins pennants.
——————
And then get beat up by rookie pitchers half their size.
Milk was a bad idea.
I feel so bad. I laughed when I saw that big guy come out with a bat.
I don’t know that we should be comparing Gardner to melky. We should be comparing him to Winn or Thames or the other candidates for the LF job.
They’re not going to undo the trade, which to me has done at least in part for financial reasons.
This post is right over my head as I’ve never seen Anchorman, lol
======================================
Betsy, you gotta get out more!
LOL Mick, I’m just not a movie person…unless I REALLY want to see it. I think the last movie I saw was Star Trek – in the theaters, at least. Lately I’ve been watching some movies on tv – but they are older ones. Maybe I’ll rent Anchorman – it sounds like it has a lot of stupid humor, which I love.
Just go to YouTube and type in Anchorman clips. You’ll probably find all of the best parts of the movie there.
Betsy, you have to see Anchorman-it’s hilarious!
*Hunter topic*
That was really true m, what irked me was him not hitting the core reason why there aren’t many african american baseball players, and it has to do w/ them turning down the sport for greener pastures.
Go to a neighborhood as a scout, I’ve seen it, if the kid has talent he’ll go through the system quickly, Pedro Alvarez, Manny, MLB, NFL, NBA no exceptions, but that kid gains more $$$ from the NFL and the NBA affiliates, the sneaker deals, the entourage, the scholarships.
3 players to make this a clearer debate
Reggie Bush, Andrew McCutchen, Kevin Durant
Which one of these 3 are likely to recieve the smaller check, if you guessed Andrew McCutchen, your correct, see it’s not talent, it’s options, another words Tori your race is passing up the sport b/c the other options give you more exposure, more I bet more under the table deals and plain and simple cash.
Bod–I agree with you about Gardner. His speed and defense can be a help off the bench. If he hits .200 as a starter, he hurts the team. Is Winn still capable of playing league average on a regular basis? He didn’t last year, but he could bounce back.
Frankly, I don’t understand the argument that we won with Melky so we can win with Gardner. Every year is different and a new challenge. With consideration of cost, I believe the best available person should be obtained to offset potential injuries and/or down years to to other regulars.
Off topic….
The Ted Williams story is about as compelling an American story as there could ever be.
Impoverished childhood, baseball hero, heroic service in two wars, world-class fisherman…it goes on and on.
Billy Crystal, you did a great job on *61. Make this movie.
I have been involved with youth baseball for the past 15 years including my son’s current time in college ball. There is a sad lack of young African-American kids playing.
There is nowhere for inner city kids to play. I once tried to use a city field to have kids practice on and was told it was $60/hour to use the field. Aluminum bats and gloves are prohibitively expensive. My son’s all-star team played an inner city all-star team in little league, and the equipment these kids were having to use was sad. MLB, with people like Hunter and Granderson, are trying to help with these big problems.
More kids ball players lead to more adult fans. It’s good business.
austinmac
March 11th, 2010 at 11:24 am
Bod–I agree with you about Gardner. His speed and defense can be a help off the bench. If he hits .200 as a starter, he hurts the team. Is Winn still capable of playing league average on a regular basis? He didn’t last year, but he could bounce back.
Frankly, I don’t understand the argument that we won with Melky so we can win with Gardner. Every year is different and a new challenge. With consideration of cost, I believe the best available person should be obtained to offset potential injuries and/or down years to to other regulars.
=====
I guess the thought was that Melky isn’t very good, and we “survived” with him in the 9 hole.
That’s flawed thinking – he was a good 9 hitter. Gardner could be a black hole at 9.
In any case, I’m glad he ha seemingly turned a corner with the bunting. Even though I see his role as coming off the bench to PR, there will be times when he finds himself at the plate. Being able to bunt for him is crucial.
Brandon,
I’m glod you said it not me, but yes that’s the point I’ve been subtly trying to get across. Greener pastures. Some of these kids, god bless ‘em, want to do the right thing for their families. They don’t have time to toil in the minors for 3 years. They see others do the one & done (if that-look at Brandon Jennings). Boom, sitting on the bench in the NBA in their rookie year. And if they don’t make it? Where do they go? Europe. They have options.
I think another point that needs to be made is you are what your parents make you (at least most of the time). Your daddy loves the NBA, you’re tall & athletic, is he going to push you towards basketball or baseball as a young kid? You’re white. Your daddy loves baseball? You’re playing little league, not pop warner. Your daddy loves hockey? You got money? Guess what you’re going to be playing as a kid.
Team Melky
rumored quote from last season “do you want a pinch runner or baseball player?”(exact words might be off)
and thanks for the update Theo
Great story, Sam. Compelling and rich.
austinmac the problem w/ the arguement is the fields get built and they still don’t stay w/ the sport. I’ve heard the inner city excuse, hey that’s just what it is, a basketball court is more common on these grounds, basketball agents or hook ups are more likely, but even w/ that field, even if the field were on that same block, if the kid had to choose between the mitt, the pigskin, or the AND1 movement, they will choose the latter 2, b/c it provides immediate resources for thier future, I can’t even begin to tell you the behind the scenes deals that go on for a teenager, the Yankees might pay a kid like Chris Smith 1 million on top of his baseball deal, or pay Austin Jackson that same amount, then you have a kid like a CJ Henry who’d rather play another sport, or you kids that choose you know what Kansas is give me 5 million under the table on top of a scholarship, Nike wants to sign me after 1 yr. in Kansas…again it happens b/c the other options are more enticing, not b/c there aren’t enough baseball fields in the hood.
Brandon -
Your point is not nearly as cut and dried as you make it out to be. MLB players, in fact, make far more in average salary that NFL players do. ($3.24 mill to $1.8 mill) Not to mention the non-guaranteed nature of the NFL contracts and the increased health risks of playing the sport vs baseball. NBA players do make more in average salary ($5.356 mill) but there’s also far less spots available to play in the NBA than MLB (450 to 750). So, while this is often used as an argument against kids playing baseball, it’s not a very good one.
“Brandon,
I’m glod you said it not me, but yes that’s the point I’ve been subtly trying to get across. Greener pastures. Some of these kids, god bless ‘em, want to do the right thing for their families. They don’t have time to toil in the minors for 3 years. They see others do the one & done (if that-look at Brandon Jennings). Boom, sitting on the bench in the NBA in their rookie year. And if they don’t make it? Where do they go? Europe. They have options.
I think another point that needs to be made is you are what your parents make you (at least most of the time). Your daddy loves the NBA, you’re tall & athletic, is he going to push you towards basketball or baseball as a young kid? You’re white. Your daddy loves baseball? You’re playing little league, not pop warner. Your daddy loves hockey? You got money? Guess what you’re going to be playing as a kid.”
Yup, again if Tori Hunter would have said that, he’d be the spokesman for this subject, unfortunately he lacked the PR sense in his comments. I know what he was trying to say, but he completely botched this subject & made it a race issue. If this subject were compared to playing football and getting a pass for a TD in the clutch, he’d be Braylon Edwards w/the hands, good route, nice speed, couldn’t hold onto the ball, you had it man, you had it there, it was a gimme TD and you didn’t catch it.
rodg12,
The only thing is that your chances of becoming a player in the mlb are far less than that of the NBA or NFL if you’re drafted in the respective sports.
And that average salary is really skewed by A-rod’s salary.
If anything, I think Torii misses the point that the rules are unfair to young American athletes in general.
Why can Latin kids be signed as such a young age?
Where’s coach? The one that went down to img academies? I’d like to get his perspective on what the racial makeup of their baseball academy is. Because on the RAB website there’s an img ad with a black player on it.
tampayank
March 11th, 2010 at 11:38 am
Team Melky
rumored quote from last season “do you want a pinch runner or baseball player?”(exact words might be off)
====
LMFAO
.
Brandon’s point is it’s easier to succeed in football and basketball if you have the talent. You get results faster. You make your millions coming right out of the draft in basketball and football. Baseball, it’s not always the case (unless you’re a godsend and get a huge signing bonus). You spend years in the minors, and sometimes never make it out.
In football and basketball, you can be a huge college star, sign your big time deal, and then turn out to be awful in the pros, but still have the millions of dollars (i.e. Greg Oden and Jamarcus Russell)
Baseball, even if you are a high school/college superstar, you don’t get the huge contract. You have to battle through the minors, and even when you make the pros you’re still under the teams control for a while.
Salary isn’t a good thing to judge here since it’s so much harder to become a baseball superstar due to the amount of time you have to spend to make it to the top level.
rodg12, I am aware of that but that’s when they turn into stars, we’re talking minor league players, the NBA and NFL athlete gets more endorsement, more under the table, more guaranteed before they touch the NBA or NFL.
I think it also depends on what the sport culture is where you live. Hockey is big time up here (certainly not just for the rich, as no one really qualifies)
Baseball is certainly played up here, but LAX is the big time spring sport.
Randy-
If what you said about Joba being a victim of his own early success then maybe the Hallady treatment would be just what he needs ?
Like they said in the movie “Robocop”.
“We can fix him. We can rebuild him and make him even better.”
He also may not be a black hole in the lineup.
If he hits .270, steals bases and has a .340 OBP, that’s not a “black hole” in the lineup. It also makes him a pretty solid #9 hitter.
Nobody is saying he’s an all star. However, he’s never just hit .200 in his career. Not in the minors nor in his first year in the majors.
If he only hits .200, he won’t be in the lineup everyday. That’s obvious.
To predict that’s what he will though do is not supported by the facts of his career to date.
Nor is the position that he will “never hit”.
Fact is, he’s always hit at every level. He has certainly hit well enough to be the #9 hitter in a major league batting order.
Much like Joba in the rotation, whether he can do it consistently enough to remain an everyday player is to be determined.
However, to discount his accomplishments to date and predict he will only get worse is not supported by the facts as to how his career has played as of today.
No game today?
Randy was correct in saying Joba suffered from some “big league-its”.
But, that was stemmed last year. Especially by Jeter in a man to man conversation with him.
He got humbled. That’s not the issue.
He doesn’t 5 different pitches coaches telling him what to do. Especially from self-promoters.
He just needs to pitch. Period. Just pitch.
Stop thinking about your role, your mechanics, and everything else.
Get the ball, get the sign, and let it fly.
He does that, he will fine.
game is at 7pm
*weather permitting…ugly weather in Florida right now
The way I’d handle Joba is plain and simple, young man, your going to Scranton and your going to work on fixing your glitches there, if NY fans chirp about it, tough, we won a World Series last yr. Chirp all you want. Joba’s value to the Yankees organization is as a SP, if he can not fulfill that then he’ll get traded for someone that will.
If he hits .270, steals bases and has a .340 OBP, that’s not a “black hole” in the lineup. It also makes him a pretty solid #9 hitter.
=====
THOSE numbers are just peachy for a No. 9 hitter.
But let me ask you this, what makes you think Brett Gardner is capable of them over a full season?
Night game. 7 pm on the MLB Channel against Atlanta.
“Salary isn’t a good thing to judge here since it’s so much harder to become a baseball superstar due to the amount of time you have to spend to make it to the top level.”
It is?? There’s 750 spots on MLB rosters as opposed to 450 spots on NBA rosters. C’mon man.
“The only thing is that your chances of becoming a player in the mlb are far less than that of the NBA or NFL if you’re drafted in the respective sports.”
Not a very good argument, m. It’s far less likely for someone to be DRAFTED in the NBA or NFL so that makes it almost meaningless.
The fact of the matter is, far more people are getting paid far more money playing baseball in this country than any other sport. It’s not the actual money that’s turning kids from baseball. Maybe it’s the perception of the money…but that brings about a whole host of other issues.
I gotta run, so that’s all I can say on this for now…
Because he did it in a half season last year and throughout his minor league career.
Its not like I pulled the numbers out of thin air.
He’s done it before. The question is, can he do it over a full season?
Time will tell.
SJ–”He will certainly hit well enough to be the #9hitter in a major league batting order.” We shall see. Of course, “well enough” is an uncertain term. I don’t like his swing. No legs are involved. It seems to me Long tried to fix that last year.
My position is simple. I doubt Gardner will hit, and that is not a good thing. Will it cost the division or the pennant? No one on this board or elsewhere can tell us that. Could I be wrong about Gardner? Absolutely, and I hope I am.
Brandon Awesome (B/c I’m more AWESOME than the ARod HGH mob)
March 11th, 2010 at 11:59 am
The way I’d handle Joba is plain and simple, young man, your going to Scranton and your going to work on fixing your glitches there, if NY fans chirp about it, tough, we won a World Series last yr. Chirp all you want. Joba’s value to the Yankees organization is as a SP, if he can not fulfill that then he’ll get traded for someone that will.
======
I’d like to see how Joba looks in his next start. He said he got past the hitch in his last start and his slider wasn’t as flat (it has flattened out his FB too, and taken some speed off it, and hasn’t seemed to help him locate – which was part of the purpose).
Joba worked down on the farm with Contreras before to good account. If he can’t get it together and win the fifth spot, I agree he should head down to SWB. We have other guys to get the ball to Mo.
SJ-
“He does that, he will fine.”
So IYO Joba “overthinks” everything while out on the mound ?
And that is his main problem.
So why is it so hard for him to do just that IYO ?
Wouldn’t seem that hard to correct.
Is he stubborn, stupid, confused. What ?
“It is?? There’s 750 spots on MLB rosters as opposed to 450 spots on NBA rosters. C’mon man.”
So that’s not a bases, I guarantee you out of those 750 spots there are thousands and thousands of could bes saying I should have gone for the basketball or football scholarship, guaranteed money there.
“Not a very good argument, m. It’s far less likely for someone to be DRAFTED in the NBA or NFL so that makes it almost meaningless.”
But it’s far more likely for them to get paid before they hit the draft, it’s far more likely for thier families to recieve that check before they hit the NBA or NFL draft than the MLB draft.
Game is also on YES……..
SJ, I agree that once Joba moved into a thinking mode things slowly began to unravel in phases……I don’t see him as messed up as his results would indicate…..
rodg,
How many guys on a D-League team (12? 15?) v. # of guys on a practice squad (?) v. # of guys in a farm system? The odds are against you making the leap to the big leagues in baseball.
Why is the baseball draft so large? Because you need that many to feed the farm system.
Bohdi/Brandon-
See my ongoing discussion with SJ.
I don’t think he agrees.
Gardner hit for 2 months, that’s it. I don’t have any faith that he can hit even .270 for a full year, but I guess we’re going to see.
I don’t know that Joba was humbled. Who really knows if Jeter got through to him?
“Is he stubborn, stupid, confused. What ?”
No reason he can’t be all three.
And how long does it take to make it to their respective levels?
Consider this… say someone like John Wall also happened to be an excellent baseball player. Top notch baseball skills to go along with his obvious number one pick in the 2011 draft basketball skills.
Scenario: He’s a senior in high school, he has MLB teams contacting him as well as every top college scouting him for basketball.
Does he go to baseball where he has to spend at least 2 years in the minors before making it to the pro’s and then wait even longer for the millions?
Or does he go to Kansas on a full scholarship for a year, gain immediate national attention, and then sign for millions the following year to play pro basketball?
It’s not just the money, it’s the timeframe in which they can get the money and noteriety. How many endorsement deals do you see with minor league baseball players?
If he doesn’t hit, he won’t play.
Name the last #9 hitter that cost a team a pennant?
It doesn’t happen.
Its not like they are going to give him 500 AB’s if he only hits .200.
All I’m saying is, players, at least many of them, improve a lot from year 1 to year 2, in the majors.
He was really coming on with the bat when he broke his thumb. After he came back, it looked like he fell into bad habits at the plate. Probably from trying to protect the thumb.
Im just not ready to buy with 100% certainty, as some are, he won’t improve and he’s destined to be a non-hitter at the major league level.
I don’t buy that because he’s always hit at every level of play thus far in his career. Even last year in his first year with the Yankees.
We just have to see what adjustments he has made from Year 1 to Year 2.
That will tell us if he can stay in the lineup on a regular basis.
Time will tell, but there are already some very telling signs.
If this guy continues to topspin everything, taking swings like he’s a power hitter, he can bunt form here until doomsday, he’s not hitting .270.
Somehow, someone has got to get it into his head that, as Austinmac points out, his baseball fortunes are in his legs.
So: IF he can hit the ball on the ground, which means altering what he habitually does and what apparently he has trouble keeping from relapsing to – uppercut swing that will not serve him…
IF he can continue to bunt well….
IF, IF, IF….and yet, for all that, I still don’t see him hitting .270 in a full season, in which slumps are inevitable. He also doesn’t have a guy picking up most of the LH ABs.
If he could give us .260 with a .340 OBP, that would be OK. But to be honest, I’m dubious he can even do that.
Frank-
“No reason he can’t be all three.”
I don’t believe Joba is stupid. At all.
Stubborn, possibly.
Confused at times, possibly.
Not trusting his stuff or his catcher. Yeah.
nibbling too much. yup.
are the yankees off today?
BTW on the OF battle
If Golson finds his bat I don’t see how Gardner would lead the choice other than experience.
Colin Curtis right now is a better option than Randy Winn.
(I personally don’t like Winn, I have to make that clear)
There’s another thing that blocks young athletes from the majors. Guaranteed contracts (think Giambi). Which don’t exist in football. So your number comes up a lot sooner than in baseball. Pro football rosters are also twice as large as baseball rosters. You can also play football by basically being big and having good feet.
Bodhi
I was quite disappointed to arrive home yesterday and discover there was no “baseball tonight”…sorry to mislead you. It isn’t on today either.
MTU,
I can’t really wade through all that.
Any way, I’m not really sure I understand the disagreement.
IF – big IF – Joba cannot repeat his delivery and IF he cannot maintain his velo and life because of a tweak – see hitch – that takes it away from him, etc, etc, etc,
He needs to be sent to the minors to work on his mechanics in tranquility, and not have the glare and demands of the Bronx interfering with trying to get straightened out.
IF that’s the course – Nardi – NOT EILAND – will be overseeing his evolution down there.
Eiland is the Yankees pitching coach. Nardi is the MiL Pitching Coordinator, unless he’s been fired recently.
IF he goes down, he will be working closely with Contreras.
MTU;
I have no idea about Joba’s brainpower either. Doesn’t impress me as particularly bright, but doesn’t make him stupid. Didn’t mean to say he was.
I think we’ve got him locked in a little on the stubborn and confused though.
In case anyone needed a laugh today.
From Bill Conlin
“Placido Polanco … Jimmy Rollins … Chase Utley … Ryan Howard …
Say hello to what is potentially the greatest all-around infield of a modern era that began in 1947 when Jack Roosevelt Robinson kicked down the door that had barred players of color from the major leagues.”
tex’s friend
March 11th, 2010 at 12:14 pm
are the yankees off today?
**************************
no, they play tonight at 7:00
upstate kate
March 11th, 2010 at 12:15 pm
Bodhi
I was quite disappointed to arrive home yesterday and discover there was no “baseball tonight”…sorry to mislead you. It isn’t on today either.
====
You are extremely thoughtful. I heard, from these guys, that there was some home movie type video that was grainy and not worth looking at, so I didn’t even attempt to see highlights.
Thanks again
.
MTU,
I think Joba has 3 issues:
1. Mechanical. That can get fixed at the big league level because its not like he is suffering from Steve Blass Disease. Its a minor adjustment. Girardi, Eiland and Harkey know what’s causing his mechanical issues. You don’t need more eyes to tell you what you already know.
You fix it with side work, drills, and working on different things in games. That’s what he did yesterday by working the inner half of the plate only.
He doesn’t need to go to AAA for that.
Now, if he still having problems on March 24, that’s a different story. Chances are though, he will be fine.
2. He’s coming off the flu where he lost 8 pounds and isn’t as strong as he will be in the next week-10 days. Despite that, he still hit 94 on the gun, which his higher than he hit in the last 2 years in his first 2 ST outings.
That tells me his arm and fitness level are higher than where it was a year ago.
3. Overthinking. I think the Yankees have to decide what he is ASAP. If he is a starter, then tell him, and prep him to be one, regardless of what you have to do (sticking him in AAA, for example) to get it done.
If they believe his future is in the bullpen, then you tell him, and prep him for it.
Joba is the kind of kid that doesn’t do well with uncertainty. It leads to overthinking, which is why he shakes off the catcher so much, IMO.
Every guy is different. Hughes is a guy that keeps things simple. Like Jeter in that regard.
Joba is like Alex. An overthinker. Getting him to keep things simple will do wonders for him.
That’s the challenge and I don’t think he needs another voice in his ear to tell him what Girardi, Eiland and Harkey have been telling him every day. It does more harm than good.
As long as Gardner is a infield track hitter, id rather him ride the pine until he gets called upon to run. He batted around .280 in the minors. Which usually translates to a poor avg. in the majors. Unless your name is Cano. Left field IMO, is Winns to not winn. If he doesnt, its time to shop for one. Im not convinced that Gardner can be more than a #4 outfielder. We are the Yankees. We dont need to settle for a .200-.230 hitter in our everyday lineup. If so, sign me up for minimum. PUT ME IN COACH, IM READY TO PLAY!!
Regarding the video.
I think the centerfielder probably needed an early shower after that incident. Did you see the look on his face?
I think Gardner will be the Lfer coming out of ST but I don’t think his leash will be very long. I don’t think they see him as a longterm solution in the outfield so whoever plays best will play.
Keith Law just said he thought Joba should remain a starter for now because starters are harder to find etc..the problem with that is they only have one rotation spot available and if Hughes is ready I don’t think they will opt to put him off another year just to see what happens with Joba.
I heard about what Conlin wrote… the Yankees pretty much have that infield destroyed with the exception of 2B.
Bill Conlin is not Awesome.
MTU, what Bod said, IMO coming off a WS championship should buy the Yankees time on this, having a good strong SP w/ or w/o Joba also helps, and a BP that can live w/ or w/o him also helps in the decision to have him in Scranton fixing himself.
If he gets sent down, Nardi won’t be overseeing him.
Scott Aldred will in Scranton.
Scott is more highly regarded by everybody in the organization when it comes to working with the younger arms.
Nardi’s job is as a glorified roving instructor.
He’s not going to oversee Joba or Hughes if either guy ever got sent down to Scranton. That’s Scott’s job.
I don’t believe Joba is stupid. At all.
========
Like i used to tell my parents after bringing home a bad report card.
I might be a bit dumb and lazy, but not stupid.
I really see Randy Winn in left,and Brett Gardner filling out the 4 th outfielder role, much like in 09….See defensive replacement for Nick Swisher…..
Frank-
“I think we’ve got him locked in a little on the stubborn and confused though.”
I could accept that characterization at times.
He really does need to “trust” his catcher more. he shakes off too much.
Some have said that young starters should not be doing that so frequently.
Couldn’t Girardi insist that Joba not shake off his catcher so much ? I would think that conversation been had many times by now. Is Joba NOT listening to his Manager ?
That conversation MTU has taken place more than “Joba to the bullpen or he is a starter” conversations have on here.
When the guy goes out there, he sometimes just zones out. It happens.
He had zero shakeoffs yesterday and, FWIW, scouts I know who were at the game thought he threw it pretty well.
He just ran out of gas.
His stuff though, was better than his first time out.
Right now, that’s all that matters this early in the Spring.
SoS essentially Golson is the same type of player, but he’s a better route runner and arm and has some pop, I still don’t understand how Gardy (love him) but he’s not a gimme for the OF opening day. Right now I’d say Golson has been better.
GGBG .143/.250/.143
G4 .200/.273/.600
SJ,
In the hypothetical scenerio that Hughes wins the #5 spot and the Yankees decide as an organization that they still want Joba to be a starter, do you think it would be a good idea to send him down to work on his delivery and being a starter?
The reason Joba could be better as a relief pitcher is that he can go in there and just let it fly. Lock and load for one inning. I think hes trying to be a finesse pitcher to try to pace himself as a starter. I dont know if the injury screwed him up. But wasnt he clocked at 98 in the 7th and 8th inning in the minors?
With 2 starts left before Girardi makes his decision. You would think Hughes would have to have a major callapse and Joba to pitch lights out to earn that spot.
Blake, first mistake – listening to Keith Law. Ugh, I can’t think of anyone in/around baseball I detest more. Keep in mind Law thinks Phil is absolutely mediocre (this is not why I detest him so much – though it doesn’t help) and naturally is going to say that Joba should be a starter.
SJ, you make a lot of good points, but I have a question re: #3. You’re on record as saying the competition is a good thing, yet you think the Yanks should just make a decision on Joba. That’s the point I raised yesterday. If the Yankees want Phil to be the #5 starter and they think Joba will live up to his potential best as a reliever, then why the competition? Let Joba prepare as a reliever and Phil prepare as a starter. It’s not like giving Phil the spot will make him slack off – that’s not his way. Therefore, I can’t see any reason for this competition.
SJ-
“3. Overthinking. I think the Yankees have to decide what he is ASAP. If he is a starter, then tell him, and prep him to be one, regardless of what you have to do (sticking him in AAA, for example) to get it done.
If they believe his future is in the bullpen, then you tell him, and prep him for it.”
Why haven’t they done this already ??????
You believe they are still trying to decide ???????
S.o.S.(no better nickname than titts magee!)
March 11th, 2010 at 12:25 pm
I don’t believe Joba is stupid. At all.
========
Like i used to tell my parents after bringing home a bad report card.
I might be a bit dumb and lazy, but not stupid.
*********************
LOL
Pat M,
I think they will give Gardner the first crack at it in April but I won’t be surprised at all if Winn takes his job relatively quickly after opening day. Many people disagree with that but I think Winn is a better hitter and that’s what it will boil down to in the end.
Brandon,
Iv mentioned this back when. What the hell is the difference between Gardner and Bubba? Gardner didnt tear up the minor leagues in hitting but people think he is going to do what Melky did up in the bigs. Melky had around a .330-.340 avg. when he was called up. Gardner had one season(i believe)where he batted right at .300. I understand he has flash speed. But like the saying goes. You cant steal first base. If there was ever a 10th man award in baseball, he could win it by coming off the bench for pinch running and defensive purposes.
Like someone mentioned earlier. I hope im wrong.
SJ-
“That conversation MTU has taken place more than “Joba to the bullpen or he is a starter” conversations have on here.
When the guy goes out there, he sometimes just zones out. It happens.”
That fequently ?
That sounds like a serious ADD problem or something.
I guess I just do not understand what you are saying here.
What exactly do you mean by “Zones out” in this context ?
I’m glad Joba was throwing well yesterday. I mean, no matter where we all stand, I think we all want him to succeed. It would be nice to see the Yankees developing really good young pitchers again….granted, there was Wang, but he was the only one since Andy.
SJ, since you spoke to some scouts, I have to ask this : how’d they think Phil looked? I ask because it always mystifies me how scouts always waiver in their evaluation of Phil (I could be wrong – maybe they always waiver in their evaluations of all players). First he comes up and he’s the the real deal. Then he gets hurt and he’s an overrated bum (now, it’s hard to take these guys seriously when they neglect to account for the fact that he suffered serious injuries). He throws great in the 2007 playoffs, but he’s still overrated. Same in 2008. 2009? Oh, he shouldn’t be a starter, he should be a reliever. I get whiplash with the way these scouts have evaluated Phil. Honestly? I suspect the scouts and “experts” who think Joba should be in the pen just say that because they want to criticize the Yankees.
Golson is the same type of player as Gardner, he’s a better route runner and arm and has some pop, I still don’t understand how Gardy (love him) but he’s not a gimme for the OF opening day. Right now I’d say Golson has been better.
GGBG .143/.250/.143
G4 .200/.273/.600
I think they are committed to letting this play out until March 24, as they have always said, and then make a decision.
Look at it this way….
If you pull the plug on Joba right now, that’s pretty unfair.
He pitched his first start sick and about only 50% capacity.
His second start, he was given specific order to work only on the inner half. In essence, the start was a glorified ST drill.
You also have the possibility of somebody getting hurt. What if Hughes got hurt next week and they would rather have Joba start than Mitre or Gaudin? He would be stretched out.
You never hurt pitchers by having them be stretched out. You hurt them by not stretching them out, and then trying to on the fly.
Brandon,
You get too excited over ST results in the first 10 days.
Randy Winn is a better player than Colin Curtis and Greg Golston hasn’t done anything to unseat Gardner for a place on the team.
Don’t get so excited about early ST results. Its fools gold.
“Melky had around a .330-.340 avg. when he was called up.”
True but he got us a LH specialist who replaces Coke, and a #2-3 type SP. That’s just for Melky.
Betsy,
I didn’t say I agreed with Law, just repeating what he said.
Brandon,
Do you take into account that by starting games, Gardner is hitting against guys that will be on the major league roster, while Golston is hitting against guys that will be in AA or AAA?
You can’t quote ST stats as a measuring stick for which players are better than others.
Betsy.
Just about every scout I know thinks Hughes belongs in the rotation and Joba in the bullpen.
That’s been almost a universal opinion among the guys I know for over a year.
wooow an anchorman reference, apropriately followed by a quote, all tied in with violence and baseball. If only someone were curb-stomped, and someone was wrongly accused and jailed for murder we could tie in american history x and shawshank redemption, now THat would be a fantastic post!
Yeah, Aldred is the pitching coach down there, Nardi is the Pitching coordinator.
I’m sure they communicate about all these kids.
For the record, Contreras did work with him last time around and reportedly came up with the so-called Joba Rules. If his role has somehow diminished, I wouldn’t know about it.
Aldred and/or Contreras – the point is, Joba needs to have guidance to get back to where he was, rather than lose all his arm building progress by becoming a short man in the bullpen.
If it so falls out that Joba is messed up mechanically, he belongs in the minors to revive the pitcher we saw in 2008.
SJ I personally don’t like Randy Winn, you know me I can’t stand players in thier mid 30′s getting in the way of those mid 20′s player who have a chance, Winn isn’t even given, although I hope he proves me wrong, I personally don’t like those types of players. Golson and Gardy, Golsen has shown more power in ST, Brett isn’t 100% a sure thing, but he likely makes it on experience alone.
SJ-
You have got me really confused now.
On the one hand you say it’s important for the yankees to make a clear decision ASAP on Joba’s role.
And on the other, you say that it would be pretty unfair to make that decision now.
I guess you mean ASAP means by the end of ST ?
I was happy they traded Melky. I was just mentioning his accomplishments in the minors and how that translated to the bigs.
Im glad our focus is on who the 9th batter is going to be rather than is the top 3 pitchers in the rotation going to pitch all 162 games. Vazquez is the biggest steal of the winter. I predict 17 win season. Granderson trade being the #2 steal of all winter trades.
Blake, I didn’t mean to imply you did; I was just responding to your post about Law.
Can someone with real baseball knowledge answer this for me-
Prior to a game how much time does a pitcher and catcher spend going over their apporach to the lineup ahead of them that day and scouting reports???
As for the Joba shaking off catchers problem- maybe its a matter that him and the catcher need to have more discussion prior to the game
New Post: The big kid is coming
SJ, I’m not trying to be difficult, but your #3 point suggests that you think the Yankees should make the decision now because Joba tends to overthink. I agree it’s too early to make a decision IF the Yankees insist on having a competition. I still don’t get why they are doing it if they want Phil to win it.
Bohdi-
SJ does not like Contreras.
He says he is a self-promoter. possibly overrated.
I’m sure he prefers Eiland or Allred work with Joba.
I do not know what is true.
What I do believe is that whoever can help fix Joba and get him back to to the Good version is who I want to work with him.
If Eiland can do it. Fine
If Allred can do it. Great.
And if Nardi can do it. Fantastic.
It really shouldn’t matter who helps him IMO just that he gets straightened out. period. end of story.
Can one of you guys answer this question for me? What plus pitches does Hughes have besides his curve? Follow up question, what pitches will he have in his arsenal? I saw a good fastball last year once he moved to the pen (95). But i recall it hovering around 93 as a starter. Does he have a good third pitch?
MTU,
Correct. March 24 decision time and that qualifies as ASAP for me.
“S.o.S.(no better nickname than titts magee!) March 11th, 2010 at 12:35 pm
Brandon,
Iv mentioned this back when. What the hell is the difference between Gardner and Bubba? Gardner didnt tear up the minor leagues in hitting but people think he is going to do what Melky did up in the bigs. Melky had around a .330-.340 avg. when he was called up. Gardner had one season(i believe)where he batted right at .300. I understand he has flash speed. But like the saying goes. You cant steal first base. If there was ever a 10th man award in baseball, he could win it by coming off the bench for pinch running and defensive purposes.
Like someone mentioned earlier. I hope im wrong.”
I agree, I hope Gardner succeeds and becomes an everyday player but I just don’t see it. All the at bats I saw parts of last season and this Spring he just looked overmatched all the time and only hopes to reach by getting a bloop hit that barely gets out of the infield. I think he’ll be gone by the All Star Break
S.O.S-
Good to see you back.
Phil also has a cutter, and is working on a CU.
I do not know how to rate the cutter. Some have said it is effective.
Hope that helps.
MTU,
Sounds like a faction or a somebody in the Yankee organization resents Contreras.
I can guess at it, but since I can’t substantiate it, it doesn’t interest me.
MTU,
It’s really helped him against lefties. He had a turn around with it after he got clobbered by Baltimore lefties last season in an afternoon game in Camden Yards.
Remember that endless day game? I sat through that one
.
Bohdi-
What a crock if true.
Sometimes that’s life.
I am really much more practical than that.
I would be more concerned about results than personalities.
Power struggles. Fact of life. Yup.
Yuck !
I haven’t seen Golson play yet.What kinda player is he and does he really have a shot making the team??