Today in The Journal News
Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Mar 11, 2010 
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Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain took their second turns in the fifth-starter derby with mixed results, though Joe Girardi says that stats don’t tell the whole story.
Alex Rodriguez has lawyers working to set up a meeting with federal investigators and A-Rod is looking forward to getting his FBI interview over.
Johnny Damon took A-Rod’s advice and personally reached out to Yankees ownership last winter, but didn’t have Rodriguez’s success. The notebook also has news on Curtis Granderson’s return to Lakeland, Austin Jackson’s new situation and a death in the Yankee family.
We can expect the same sort of performance from AJ maybe that we got from Phil. AJ is going to throw only FB and change-ups today. Actually, he might get rocked, but obviously it doesn’t matter.
“Patrick, my nickname on NYYFans is Rocketbooster because I came to love Roger. Personally, he was a very good guy even if he was a jerk on the mound. However, he brought this all on himself with his behavior since that time. ”
I am still a big Rocket fan. True he’s done some really dumb things in the past few years but I still like the guy. The fact remains, he was always known as a hothead with a bit of a mean streak and I definitely think that didn’t help his perception when the steroid thing came out.
MTU,
Si.
Where’s Chad Jennings? There was no post that he’s taking a few days off. Why’s he not reporting?
Sam commented in one of the posts that Chad is off for a few days. He’ll be back on Friday
Chad will be back tommorow. Sam just said he was taking a little time off.
Re-post ……
A stint at AAA for 6 weeks to correct Joba’s mechanical issues is exactly what’s needed for the betterment of his career.
There’s no urgency for the month of April and early May to have him on the 25-man roster.
The team is well fortified in the pitching department both with starters and the bullpen. It’s not like having a key position player out of action for 6 weeks like Alex was last year.
Blake-
no wonder you said you stared at small things a lot.
Rick,
I am on the fence with this one but I’m leaning towards agreeing with you. I doubt the Yankees do it though.
Mtu,
Yea rough on the ole eyesight. Loupes help at lot though.
Patrick/Rick-
I am not on the fence but I agree with you Patrick.
I doubt the Yankees do it.
Patrick,
the term racism implies that one race is superior to another race. Torii Hunter is basically ignorant because he doesn’t realize that despite being Latino those dark skinned players he’s referring to are indeed black.
If you know history then you know that slaves from Africa were dropped off on the DR and Haiti (same island).
Black is a race, Hispanics or Latino is a culture. Huge differnce. A Chinese person born in America is still Chinese, no?
Same as a black person born in the DR is still black.
And Patrick, this us not my opinion, it’s a fact.
So to say that Torii is racist is impossible being that the people he is talking about are the same race that he is
Blake-
general, or a specialty ?
Whatever you say ray
Exactly Ray.
How do you make that decision based on 2 ST starts. One when he was coming off the flu and one when he was given specific instructions to just work the inner half of the plate.
Yesterday was almost like a drill session. They were having him just work the inner half to keep him more closed on his delivery.
That’s what ST is for, to work on these things.
You don’t penalize the guy for it.
If he can’t get anybody out on March 24, then you discuss sending him down to work on things.
I have a feeling by then, he will be throwing the ball well enough to garner a spot on the 25 man roster.
Pretty certain hispanic is not a culture.
Mtu,
General.
SJ, it will be interesting to see what happens with Joba. I don’t think him or Hughes either one want to be sent back down. I think what happens will largely depend on what the Yankees decide Joba’s longterm role will be. If they still want him to start at some point in the future then they may send him down to work out his delivery but if they make the decision he’s a reliever then I’d say he will stay up and be good in that role.
not much news on mark newman.
i didn’t realize he’s as old as he is. he’s 60 but looks 70.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/l.....BZrzqJ19zK
i’m guessing the yankees will quietly move him aside and put someone in there with more energy.
no wonder no one is making sure gardner could bunt.
nothing against being old and wise , but there are positions where he might be better suited.
i would think senior vice president of baseball operations is a demanding job.
i say keep him , but get some new energy in there.
chinese is a culture, where do you think I got this hat? /\
ray,
My thought has always been a chinese person born in america was american. same for someone who’s black.
but to comment on your line of reasoning, wouldn’t a hispanic person who’s born in america still be hispanic?
And also, china is a country, maybe you meant asian?
“chinese is a culture, where do you think I got this hat? /\ ”
-_-
You don’t judge anyone after 2 ST, SJ. I think people are concerned about Joba’s issues going further back than two ST starts. I know it’s a new year, but that doesn’t mean the problems have gone away (the shaking off of the catchers on a constant basis has to stop). I think all people are saying is that if Joba is going to have these problems, then he should go down to AAA to work on them in peace. He may very well clean his mechanics up and be just fine, in which case there is no doubt that he has a spot on the roster. I don’t look at it as Joba losing a spot anyway because, if he were to be sent down, he’d be recalled as soon as the Yanks thought he was fine.
Patrick, I’m sort of confused now on Roger. Whatwith his relationship with that girl, etc… – I don’t know how to think of him. I can never dislike him, though.
there is no way mexican is a race, they are far too lazy to run.
I’d rather they work out their weakness in ST, and be ready for the season.
By the time Damon came to Boras the writing was on th wall, and Cashman was ovah, Boras and his games!
Alex came back to earth much sooner, with all of baseball loathing Boras tactic of trying to upstage the WS, with the Alex opt-out news.
I think we can all agree Torii is at the worst racist, and at the least, a moron
Texas Ranger signed Edwar Ranmirez, seems like all ex Yankees gets picked up!
Damon allowed his negotiations too get way out of control, too much, too little, too late.
For the purposes of racial integration in baseball today, black = African-American.
But it’s not really about color for Torii. It’s about $$. Does he ever not talk about it?
Jerkface
March 11th, 2010 at 9:28 am
I think we can all agree Torii is at the worst racist, and at the least, a moron
***********************
LOL
“I think we can all agree Torii is at the worst racist, and at the least, a moron”
Yes
Randy-
I could have used some help on the last thread in regards to Joba.
I was trying to make a point with SJ about how different pitching coaches have differing succeses with differing pitchers. I tried to use Neil Allen and Wang as an analogy with joba and Eiland.
But I just got shot down.
Go back to the last thread if you are interested.
And let me know what you thought.
I would appreciate it.
Patrick/Rick-
I am not on the fence but I agree with you Patrick.
I doubt the Yankees do it.
____
I third this statement. There just seems to be something off with joba since he went down in 2008. And i feel that if he cannot get that fastball back up as a starter, then he should be the permanent 8th inning guy and then the new closer if mo ever retires.
But either way, he needs some work and thats what AAA is there for.
“the term racism implies that one race is superior to another race.”
—————————
This is false.
Torii’s statement isn’t so much racist as it is ignorant.
I believe the word you are looking for is ethnicity not culture when it comes to classifying players of hispanic descent.
Racism:
- the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races
- discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another race
Directly from the dictionary on princeton.edu
And in a bit or irony, ‘torii’ is the Japanese word for those reg gates.
Like this: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_cXDw.....i+gate.bmp
Or
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.
red gates!
Torii’s not black. He’s green. As in greenback. As in green with jealousy.
Many definitions
Betsy,
We get it, you like Phil Hughes…
LGY-
“Many definitions”
But if the parties can’t agree on a common defintion for the purposes of discussion then how does the discussion proceed other than in confusion.
LOL My opinions re: Joba have nothing to do with how I feel about Phil, Coach, but I’m not going to try and dissuade you of that fact as I’m sure it’s an utter waste of time.
the concern i have with joba is he has not pitched well in a very long time
it looked like girrardi also lost confidence in him in the playoffs to the point joba was irrelevant
either you get it done or you don’t
if joba can’t someone else will
i am not ready to give up on him but it has been a very long time since he pitched well
imo his mechanics,conditioning & his head are not right
he never had to earn his spot.
it was given to him
he needs to be sent down,humbled
Season Tix…
Trying to buy 2 seats for 41 games right now and everything in the 200′s is sold out – I’m shocked.
Anyone having the same trouble? Any tips?
Anyway, Torii is an idiot. I don’t think he’ll ever stop making predictions (how’s that working out?) or talking about money or racism. (and ultimately that is what he was talking about. he’s saying that the Latinos are taking away opportunities from his people)
There’s a reason why athletes don’t speak up about things. Jordan, LeBron, Tiger, and on and on. Your intentions might be good, but ultimately fans want to see you, not hear you.
And if you’re going to pick a cause, pick a different one, Torii. Crying because your people don’t get a big enough pieces of the pie will fall on deaf ears.
Jerkface
If you were to actually read the USA Today article, linked on the Huffingtonpost. Boras,players and other scouts contributed to the article, and names listed by the writer. Hunter does a lot of work like CC does,
IN THE COMMUNITY, trying to help impoverished youths to be able to get in to baseball.
Boras is quoted with all through the article in agreement with Tori, et al on MLB not coming in certain areas in the US, but willing to spend millions abroad to import players. As of 2009, Whites in baseball 60%, Blacks 8%, Latinos 28%, and Asians 3%.
Boras also is quoted as saying that for the amount of money spent in the Asian market, there has been 5 players that have played more than 5 years, in the MLB.
Tori won the Branch Rickey (broke the color barrier, by hiring Jackie Robinson) award in 2009. It’s given for community work and being a role model for kids.
If after you read the article you still think he’s racist, so be it. At least read the article. Boras thinks MLB is missing out on a huge opportunity in this area. He slams MLB for spending 8-12M overseas and not at home!!
As long as Hunter says stuff like this: “As African-American players, we have a theory that baseball can go get an imitator and pass them off as us. It’s like they had to get some kind of dark faces, so they go to the Dominican or Venezuela because you can get them cheaper. It’s like, ‘Why should I get this kid from the South Side of Chicago and have Scott Boras represent him and pay him $5 million when you can get a Dominican guy for a bag of chips?’ … I’m telling you, it’s sad,” he said.
…he will be misunderstood. No matter how good a guy he is.
Boras ought to donate the $8 – $12 million needed. It’s chump change to him!
I think baseball executives that value their job are interested in the most talented players no matter where they are from or what color they are. Baseball is huge in Latin America and kids play it year round because they love it and the weather allows it..that’s why they are good and why scouts are interested in those areas.
Hughes/Chamberlain & Montero for Mauer, I’d do it in a heartbeat.
http://www.fannation.com/truth.....?eref=sihp
I think Hunter was simply expressing problem with the lack of African-American in baseball. As one who grew up watching Mays, Aaron, Gibson etc., he is right. He actually has worked hard to get inner city kids to play ball, and I say good for him.
I have liked him since I heard a radio interview in which he said he doesn’t wear a cup while saying “If you need one is the outfield you probably shouldn’t be playing.”
Then your claim that “the term racism implies that one race is superior to another race” is false…
…is also false.
As a part latino I have to weigh in on Tori’s comment, you were going well, but words like imitators, imposters and they’re not us, on top of that it’s like they had to get some kinds of dark faces…
Doesn’t make you come off well.
It’s like they had to get some dark faces, that deserves him running through the wall, no Tori it’s all about getting baseball players at a good price, as for african americans, they have thierselves to blame, b/c they are the ones turning down baseball and going NFL or NBA or Boxing instead of taking up baseball programs and sticking to it. Tori make a good arguement but it doesn’t have to do w/ color of skin today, it has more to do w/ options, by the way we also have lightskin latinos getting scouted in latin america, so I’m pretty sure it has more to do w/ they can play baseball.
The dude, im glad you are no where near our front office…
The Dude March 11th, 2010 at 10:11 am
Hughes/Chamberlain & Montero for Mauer, I’d do it in a heartbeat.
_________________
Then it’s a good thing you aren’t our GM.. Yeah, lets trade 2 young arms (or one or the other) + our best hitting prospect for a catcher who will be a free agent next season.
The Dude should be renamed the idiot. But that’s JMO.
That’s why they have video games for wannabe GM’s.
austinmac,
There are so many things more involved than what Torii is suggesting (profiling).
This is (lucid) Ozzie’s rebuttal: “I was laughing because when he said, `They go there and sign for potato chips,’ I said, `Well, we’ve got Chapman. They gave him $12 million. [Cincinnati actually agreed to a $30.25 million, six-year contract with pitcher Aroldis Chapman.] We’ve got [prospect Dayan] Viciedo. They gave him $10 million. I remember in my time, one scout goes [to Venezuela and] 30 players show up. Now, 30 scouts go there and one player shows up. In our country, we play baseball. That’s no choice. Here you can play basketball, you can be another athlete, you can do so many things when you have the opportunity. And that’s why there’s not many [African-American] players out there.”
I’m not an expert, so I don’t want to talk too much on the topic, but if we’re talking inner city kids they don’t have access to football fields either, no? They pick it up at the high school level?
What’s the best, quickest, easiest way for an inner city kid/less fortunate black player to get into college? Basketball? Football? Certainly not baseball. Partially because baseball sholarships because of gender equity (football pulls a lot of sholarships from smaller sports).
Also, what’s the quickest way to make into pro sports? Basketball and football. Certainly not baseball.
It’s just much more complicated than what Torii is making it out to be.
He actually thinks baseball is going to Latin America because they’re too cheap to sign black players. Totally ignoring that it’s a hotbed of talent. I can’t even wrap my head around what Torii was accusing baseball of doing.
I do like what I have seen of Russo and Curtis. They appear capable back-ups right now.
I still see left field as a potential problem spot. Can Gardner hits and is Winn washed up? Time will tell.
Sam
Where’s the article on Damon turning down the best offer he had from any other team,the Yankees 2/14M, and choosing to work for less, with the Tigers 1/8M?
Yankees get slammed for spending money, and when they don’t. YOU can’t have it both ways dude!
Sorry, that’s supposed to say baseball scholarships have been cut.
Coach6423
March 11th, 2010 at 10:20 am
The dude, im glad you are no where near our front office…
**************************
LOL
My thoughts exactly!
Torii went beyond his scope of knowledge/expertise, I think. Whenever people do that they tend to get into trouble.
It’s too complex and emotional a topic to get involved in on a blog, for me. But, I will weigh in that it seems like baseball has to do a better selling job to the African-American community – make it a viable option.
I will tell you, though, living my life in comfortable suburbs of NJ, the kids who play baseball around here not only play in the leagues, they get private coaching. How can an inner city youth (no matter what their background) compete with that?
Torii Hunter es un hipócrita y un phony
m, you hit it right on the nail, but honestly even now, if there are black players that can play the process of scholarships come quicker, and if they enter the ML draft they are on fast pace, it all depends how quick they pick up the sport. Although your point of other options as football and basketball and the under the table money given to those athletes is straight on point, NBA affiliates and NFL affiliates pay more to the young talent, tell a kid sneaker deals, free college ride, entourage, and he has baseball/basketball or baseball/football skills, I’ll tell you 99 times out of 100 baseball is choice #2 to that kid.
Austinmac,
Gardner is not going to magically start hitting. He’s not a hitter. But I like that he’s laying down some good bunts.
He will be a legit weapon for us off the bench, where his speed can help us.
if we can survive with melky in cf & win a ws we can survive with gardner in lf who is much better than melky defensively
if gardner is a disaster we will bring someone else in for lf
cashman & girrardi won’t allow a lf with a .300 obp to play
my point is gardner will have to produce at least enough until a better solution comes along
Its much easier and less expensive to form a pickup basketball game than a pickup baseball game which is why a lot of inner city kids turn to that sport. You just don’t need as much equipment or as many people to play. Its something I think MLB really needs to put time and money into if they want to reach those areas more effectively.
Doreen,
I agree that Torii could have simply said, “I’d like to see baseball invest more in the inner cities.”
Baseball should continue to invest abroad. It globalizes the sport and makes it stronger. The two endeavors don’t have to be mutually exclusive.
Doreen said it best.
Torii went outside his scope and expertise.
He’s a really good guy who happened to say a very dumb thing.
Happens to everybody from time to time.
All I have to say about Torii Hunter is that if what he says is true, then it isn’t racism or ignorance on his part. Perhaps the ignorant ones here are those of us who are attacking Hunter while the owners are dissing Americans and levying restrictions on Little League teams that call themselves the Yanks or Sox and are forced to change their names. (Branding in a different way!!!)
I am so feed up on this era of attacking someones words when a lifetime of their actions contradict the words, yet a lifetime of pure hatred and racism is given a pass if one is outwardly politically correct.
I like Mr Hunter. He is a great MLB player and a great man too!!!
I like that kid Winfree. Had 2 hits yesterday. Has a nice short stroke and hits the ball up the middle alot. He could be a nice find. Good to see Golson show some power as well. Really crushed that game winning homer in the 9th. Gardner better watch out.
I saw on some espn show (outside the lines maybe) a story about a white basketball player (from NJ? Staten Isl?) who made similar claims about the NBA. He said they recruited white guys from Europe (altho he didn’t say they were imposters)
I think Torii had a valid concern, but sure didn’t express himself well, and insulted Latino players w/ his statements. Contrast that w/ CC and his efforts to encourage kids to play baseball by renovating the ball fields where he grew up.
I do think we have to keep the Gardner stuff in perspective.
This team won a WS with Melky Cabrera in CF.
Melky is a nice player but, he’s not an all star and we endured a lot of Melky slumps last year, mixed in with those GW hits.
If Gardner can give them what he gave them last year over a full season, he’s fine.
If he can’t, Winn will play a lot and they will see if they have to address the position at the trade deadline.
In other words, Brett Gardner is not the key to the Yankees seasons.
The key to the season is pitching. If they pitch well, and stay healthy, this is a loaded team.
“I was trying to make a point with SJ about how different pitching coaches have differing succeses with differing pitchers. I tried to use Neil Allen and Wang as an analogy with joba and Eiland.”
mtu-
the problem i have is that i don’t know nardi contreas at all, and i don’t know what he did with joba when he came to the yankees.
personally , i think totally from looking at it from the outside that nardi is not like neil allen,gil patterson, or mel stottlemyre .
these three are not differential in the least.
neil totally changed the kind of pitcher that wang was in a week.
i’m really not sure at all what nardi did with joba.
with nardi
not trying to leave you hanging out there, but i spoke very strongly about what allen did with wang because neil told me himself.
one thing i will say is that if nardi did work very closely with joba and got joba’s A game out of him, it might give some clues how to reach him now.
joba reminds me of a puppy that you have to keep on a short leash while you are training him. give him an inch and he runs off. he thinks he’s leader of the pack. he’s the pick of the litter and charismatic as heck but you can’t let him know that.
i always thought it was amusing when joba ,in his first year in the bigs, would be so chummy with jeter and the stars of the team. i really think he got “in” too fast.
he’s not a top dog at all for long unless someone strong is in control of him. he wants to use his ideas about how things should be done and it just doesn’t work that way for him.
i’m not an expert on joba, but if you look back he burst into baseball late. he obviously had someone take him under their wing because he was such a phenom.
he gets to nebraska where he’s going to have a strong coach above him.
then to the yankees and he is still overachieving for a fat high school kid who didn’t pitch until late in high school.
he’s grinding for sure. maybe that’s when nardi provided some strong guidance.
the point is he was rising fast with a lot of help from the outside.
now he gets to the majors and he’s the new phenom in the bullpen.
no one is better in that set up role.
he’s made it . he’s there.
success in his mind.
for someone like joba , that easy mlb success wass probably the worst thing thing that
could happen to him.
he probably needs some failure or at least to be challenged on a regular basis to stay motivated and keep his head in the right place.
sending him to triple a would probably be the only thing to register in his head that he’s not in charge, but the yankees are not likely to do that.
so those are my two cents worth on joba.
“Torii went beyond his scope of knowledge/expertise, I think. Whenever people do that they tend to get into trouble.”
Like Joba, when he talks about pitching.
If Gardner can give them what he gave them last year over a full season, he’s fine.
====
Except Gardner can’t give them what Melky did last year.
There’s this notion that Gardner is a faster version of Melky. That’s just not near the reality.
Melky is not a superstar. But he is a much more polished and better hitter than Gardner. His bat his faster, he has more power, he is a better hitter.
The notion that Gardner will be at least Melky plus better defense is actually pie in the sky.
He won’t be. He’s a good option off the bench, where his speed goes from theoretical to a literal weapon.
“deferential” that is
Brandon,
Thanks for your perspective. When the topic came up yesterday, I didn’t want to say it because it wasn’t my place. But the ones who I thought would be insulted were the Latin players.
And he insults the fans, too. Like we think all dark-skinned people are African-Americans? We know that Vlad’s mama’s food is delicioso! And that his Angels teammates (of all races) loved her Dominican cooking.
new thread
Something escalated quickly
pitching & avoiding major injuries will determine how far we go
we have a lot of interesting kids in the mix going forward wich is nice
montero,cervelli,pena,romine,robertson,hughes,joba,melancon & so on
melancon has been looking good
we also have several lf in the mix so it should not be a problem
i think if vaz,pettitte can do well we will be fine
how did brackman look yesterday?
Hunter may not have said it best and other sports take inner city kids away from baseball. However, there is something to be said for what he said beyond it being stupid. There is a lot more room for manipulation in poorer countries than in the US. Wasnt there an issue with Bowden and the Nats doing some things that weren’t on the up and up? We cant just look at Latino stars and say they dont get paid a “bag of chips” bc they are the exception like anyone of any race who signs a big contract.
Dont put much weight into thats why there arent more blacks from America and I didnt like the word inposter but people are quick to dismiss an interesting topic because Hunter wasnt eloquent.
Randy-
Thanks for the feedback.
I wish you did know more about Contreras.
maybe he is just an “urban legend”, or overrated as SJ seems to think.
Glad you evn took the time out to respond.
Some comments that seem “insigthful”.
He doesn’t have to give them what Melky did last year for the team to be successful.
Granderson is here and he is a much better player than Melky.
His contributions, moreso than Gardner’s, are key for this season.
Really true m, what irked me was him not hitting the core reason why there aren’t many african american baseball players, and it has to do w/ them turning down the sport for greener pastures.
Go to a neighborhood as a scout, I’ve seen it, if the kid has talent he’ll go through the system quickly, Pedro Alvarez, Manny, MLB, NFL, NBA no exceptions, but that kid gains more $$$ from the NFL and the NBA affiliates, the sneaker deals, the entourage, the scholarships.
3 players to make this a clearer debate
Reggie Bush, Andrew McCutchen, Kevin Durant
Which one of these 3 are likely to recieve the smaller check, if you guessed Andrew McCutchen, your correct, see it’s not talent, it’s options, another words Tori your race is passing up the sport b/c the other options give you more exposure, more I bet more under the table deals and plain and simple cash.
SJ44
March 11th, 2010 at 11:02 am
He doesn’t have to give them what Melky did last year for the team to be successful.
Granderson is here and he is a much better player than Melky.
His contributions, moreso than Gardner’s, are key for this season.
====
Hold on, there, dude.
YOU said ‘if he can give them what Melky did last year, he’ll be fine.”
So it was you who compared him with Melky.
And my point is: Gardner has no ability to produce even Melky’s 2009 numbers – not in an every day capacity.
Hunter combined two separate issues. That was the biggest problem followed by a lack of eloquence.
No, I said if he can match his OWN numbers from last year, over a full season, it’s a solid enough contribution to help the team win.
I’m well aware he isn’t a power hitter.
SJ44,
You had just made a reference to Melky, so it was not entirely clear.
However, I see now that “HE” was referring back to the subject of that sentence, which was Gardner.
The answer, however, is the same: Gardner CANNOT produce the numbers he gave the Yankees last season over a FULL season (nor can he produce Melky’s numbers – you did in fact make the Melky comparison).
Gardner is NOT going to get on base at a .345 clip over a full season. In fact, I’ll go out on a limb here and say he isn’t going to come CLOSE to .345 (of course, he won’t get the opportunity to be the LF for a full season).
Gardner is not only not a power hitter – he’s not really a hitter at all. I don’t even expect him to win the LF job. If there’s some sort of grace period in play, he sure won’t keep the job.