Split-squad lineups
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 13, 2010 
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Home vs. Baltimore
Gardner CF
Johnson DH
Posada C
Cano 2B
Granderson LF
Winn RF
Miranda 1B
Laird 3B
Pena SS
RHP Javier Vazquez
Road vs. Detroit
Jeter SS
Swisher RF
Teixeira 1B
Rodriguez 3B
Thames LF
Cervelli C
Hoffmann CF
Winfree DH
Nunez 2B
RHP Chad Gaudin
Before Sam came down here for a few days, he and I talked about breaking up the game posts a little bit so that information doesn’t get lost in the shuffle. That’s why we’ve been going with an early lineup post. Is this working for everyone?
repost:
For all of you early birds out there here is an interesting RT discussion on the 5th starter competition.
http://www.myyesnetwork.com/12…..of_titans#
IMO, good even handed discussion of the relevant issues.
The takeaway for me was that in their opinion the person who gets the 5 slot will be the one who fulfills the mandate they have been given the best.
In the case of Joba, he needs to show incresed FB velocity and command, return of the bite on his slider, efficiency, etc.
In the case of Phil, effective use of the CU is one of his primary tasks.
For me, it was worth the read because it crystalized where we might all focus our attention over the course of the next few weeks leading up to a final decision.
And one other thing I would like to emphasize from that dicussion.
The perspective of a Manager or a pitching coach can be very different than that of a fan.
They are much more focused on specific agenda items than we fans.
And from what I can gather they are much more sanguine about who gets what. There would appear to be no favorites.
Whoever produces the required output will get the job.
Chad-
I like the early lineup post.
However, I don’t understand how practicing with a lighter bat would help you to swing faster. Stupid question, probably but otherwise, why would batters swing several bats in the on deck circle or use a “doughnut” on their bat? Also, players (especially top base stealers – Ty Cobb, for example) used to wear heavier spikes in the spring so that when the games counted, their feet felt lighter. Wouldn’t the same principle apply to using a heavier or several bats before stepping into the batter’s box?
—
Science of Sport showed that swinging heavier objects and then switching to lighter ones did not actually increase bat speed. Actually, that is not entirely true, you were faster on the first swing after. Then the increase disappeared.
The best way to train is with what you are using.
How do they break up the coaches for the split games. Who is home today and who goes on the road?
Is the Baltimore game the one being televised today?
Thames is in the lineup a lot, and in LF instead of DH… do you think he’ll make the team?
Now that I have my head on straight I am going to watch the 5th starter competition in a new light.
Thru the eyes of a Manager, or a Pitching Coach.
Now that I have a better handle on what THEY might be looking for it will be a lot easier to see who is the likely favorite as more time goes by.
And to become less confused by my mistaken notions of what it would take for either Phil or Joba to be chosen.
And the same thing goes for the GGBG/Winn etc. competition.
Cool.
It was refreshing to hear from Dave Eiland through today’s papers that the fifth starter competition is wide open and that there are no favorites. It cleared up a lot of confusions that this was only a two horse race b/w Phil and Joba. It makes me feel as if the staff will choose the starter who earns his spot as the fifth starter rather than mainly on prospect hype and supposed organization longterm best interests.
mtu,
I saw that roundtable (toh to RAB) last night, too. And it did put things in perspective.
Howevah, Joba’s struggles seem to be in part due to lack of confidence in and/or command of his fastball? (this isn’t something that’s only 2010 ST)
Those guys know way more than I do about pitching and baseball in general, but the “give Joba the job because he can give you 200 innings”(qualified with “if he can…” thought bothers me a bit. I think a lot more needs to go into it. Haven’t the Yankees seen enough out of these two kids to at least crystal ball/project what they’re going to give you? Question for the LoHud people, if Joba is the 5th starter, what’s your prediction? Will he put it all together? How long will he last on average per start?
Argh. Need to qualify that.
Haven’t the Yankees seen enough out of these two kids over the last 3 seasons?
m-
The comparisons to Billingsley’s struggles were very interesting as well.
Young starters often struggle.
That would seem to be TBL.
“However, I don’t understand how practicing with a lighter bat would help you to swing faster.”
will-
i should explain that my belief is based on my personal experience with trying to throw a baseball as far as possible , hitting a baseball as far as possible, and hitting a golf ball as far as possible .
all of these led me to reading a lot, and a lot of trial and error using myself as a guinea pig ( i wasn’t worth anything so i didn’t worry about hurting myself ).
the one book that came along that fit in with what i found through trial and error was:
The Throwing Madonna
Essays on the Brain by william calvin
http://williamcalvin.com/bk2/bk2ch4.htm
” It probably all started with the invention of one-armed rock throwing, handy for hunting prey without the usual long chase scene. Throwing possibly promoted the first important lateralization of a function to the left brain, an ability to rapidly orchestrate muscles in novel sequences. And I’ll bet that this muscle-sequencing lateralization, most noticeable these days as handedness, was what started up not only toolmaking but language.”
that’s right. swinging or throwing fast is a brain activity.
i happened across this book while i was bullpen catching mlb pitchers , some of who trained under bamberger when he was the orioles pitching coach( bamberger produced 18 20 game winners ).
these guys threw all the time. the more the better. i was doing that because of throwing maximum long toss with many of them ( maximum means at full speed)
to make a long story short,at 40 years old, i was throwing 100 yard long toss with pitchers who could throw 120 yards.
once i caught on to this idea that throwing speed or swing speed ( a swing is really a two handed throw), then i started training as fast as i could to see what would happen.
what happened was throwing speed, hitting speed, and golf swing speed all improved dramatically.
this is a big subject, but to answer your question about why lighter is better to train speed, you can swing faster with a lighter bat. once your brain feels faster and trains the specific neural machinery it can go faster with a heavier bat or golf club.
one example of training speed that might help explain the concept is that olympic runners have been strapped in harnesses behind cars that are programmed to go a few hundreds faster than the runner as ever gone before.
once the runner feels faster, he or she can go faster.
it’s the same idea with swing speed. if someone goes faster they will feel what faster feels like. their brain’s wiring is changed by the experience of feeling faster. it takes a lot of repetitions of going faster to bring out the speed and imprint it in the brain’s neural machinery.
but it happens.
now, as a disclaimer, this is mostly me saying this. no one that i’m aware of has put any of this together, but i have no doubt that twenty years from now that swing speed and throwing speed will be trained as a brain activity.
i wouldn’t be surprised to see some neuro transmitters banned as PEDS.
this was probably way more than you wanted to know, but i’m pretty sure it’s right.
all i know is that at 60 i still can throw a baseball as hard as i can every day ( not as fast as younger), swing a bat at mlb average speed, and swing a golf club way faster that pga avg swing speed( 112 or so). i can still hit 130 if i want.
there are swing speed devices that you need to measure and train swing speed. they are about 100 dollars , but you need one because the fastest swing doesn’t feel like the fastest swing.
you need an objective device to tell you in mphs. then when you hit your maximum speed, you keep doing what created it.
if you do this you’ll get faster.
train slow and you’ll get good, at guess what, slow
Kevin Long started analyzing Curtis Granderson’s swing in November — before he was a #yankee: http://nyti.ms/b9ceLt
4 minutes ago via web
“That’s why we’ve been going with an early lineup post. Is this working for everyone?”
Yes.
Randy,
That’s some interesting stuff you’re talking about. I was always a huge long toss guy myself when I played as I thought the farther I could throw the ball the faster I could throw it and it also allows you to work on the tragectory and accuracy of your throws. I’ve never really thought about applying that concept to hitting….maybe you should conduct a formal study to test your theory.
” I’ve never really thought about applying that concept to hitting….maybe you should conduct a formal study to test your theory.”
blake-
it really is an interesting subject, but the there is really very little research or info about it.
take a look at the video of this world champion long drive champion, Jamie Sadlowski.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVs0tkmAkro
i picked this informal video because it shows how big muscles are not what makes his ball go 450 yards ( he’s done it in competition).
the guy is 5″11 and 175 pounds.
now there are big guys 6’6″ who can also generate a lot of swing speed with the mechanical advantage of long arms and legs, but none of them beat this guy.
a baseball swing is only different in that the bat is about two pounds and a golf driver is about a pound.
with a bat weighing twice as much it takes a bit more muscle to get it to maximum speed.
but the principle is the same.
it’s the neural machinery and not the size of the muscles that makes the ball go fast.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related
more fun Jamie Sadlowski video.
Chad, I like the idea, worth at least trying. But with the nature of spring training it’s hard to say now if it works or not until the season really starts.
Nothing against Sam but thank God you are back on the case Chad! I love the early reserves report!
Randy,
Wow, that dude generates some serious swing speed. It takes some serious hand-eye coordination to swing that hard and make square contact.
I think there is something to the concept that your brain goes as fast as you train it to. I think the old thunderstick drill kinda works the same somewhat, (use a thinner bat to hit smaller balls). Once your brain learns to focus enough to do that consistently then the normal sized ball seems easier to hit.
NEW THREAD
Definitely liked it better the other way…I feel like splitting it up is going to make it easier for things to get lost in the shuffle.
“It was refreshing to hear from Dave Eiland through today’s papers that the fifth starter competition is wide open and that there are no favorites. It cleared up a lot of confusions that this was only a two horse race b/w Phil and Joba. It makes me feel as if the staff will choose the starter who earns his spot as the fifth starter rather than mainly on prospect hype and supposed organization longterm best interests.”
Joe Girardi refers to them as his 20 percenters. Not 50 percenters, 20 percenters.
It doesn’t matter what individual posters may believe to the opposite, I am with you that this is wide open.
This from Dave Eiland:
“Nevertheless, the evaluation process has begun, though Eiland said decisions will come down to much more than numbers.
“It’s the quality of each pitch, working ahead of the count, first-pitch strikes, stuff, command, how economical are they, are there long at-bats, are the outs hard-hit?” Eiland said. “You can go out and pitch a few innings and give up lasers all over the field and walk away with no hits and no runs, but that doesn’t mean you made a lot of good pitches. So it’s not just based on numbers and results.”
A look at the 20 percenters:
Alfredo Aceves
2 G, 6 IP, 0 ER, 4 Ks, 0 BB, 0 HR, 0.00 ERA
Sergio Mitre
2 G, 5 IP, 4 Ks, 1 BB, 0 HR, 0.00 ERA
Phil Hughes
2 G, 4 2/3 IP, 2 ER, 2 Ks, 1 BB, 2 HR, 3.86 ERA
Chad Gaudin
2 G, 4 IP, 3 ER, 3 Ks, 1BB, 2 HR, 6.75 ERA
Joba Chamberlain
2 G, 11 ER, 2 Ks, 6 BB, 1 HR, 27.00 ERA”
If you are evaluating along with the Yankees, it might pay to look at the things that Eiland enumerated.