It’s bracket time
Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Mar 17, 2010 
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You know that Opening Day is getting ever closer when the NCAA tournament starts up, and poring over brackets is a nice way to pass those final few weeks until baseball begins. In that vein, I offer two options that are appealing for different reasons:
1. Visit www.lohud.com/brackets to set up an account and fill out your bracket for this year’s tournament. See how well you do against several Journal News sports staffers – including Chad and me – and if you’re good enough to somehow put together a perfect bracket you’ll win $10,000. (Which you should probably use to start-up your new fortune-telling business.)
2. According to an e-mail from Curtis Granderson’s PR man, anyone who donates at least $1 to Granderson’s Grand Kids Foundation via Paypal will receive an invitation into his NCAA bracket challenge. The top 10 final bracket scores will win Curtis Granderson autographed prizes, including bats, balls and photos. The link to donate is right here.
we can rebuild him:
http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-b.....or-return/
Anyone have any good tips for possible bracket upsets?
Boycotting the tournament so this post isn’t for me.
Just signed up. You can submit up to 5 brackets. Great idea by Granderson, or by his PR person.
Tseng
I saw that a couple of days ago on his facebook page.
When does the tourney start?
blake
I am with you brother.
So, there is no dance? Like there was no 2004?
For whoever asked –
Joba’s 5 best starts
4/09 @ DET – 7 IP, 3 H, 1 ER, 3 BB, 6 K
6/09 @ CLE – 8 IP, 4 H, 2 ER, 2 BB, 5 K
7/09 vs. OAK – 7 IP, 2 H, 1 ER, 3 BB, 6 K
7/09 @ TB – 8 IP, 3 H, 0 ER, 2BB, 5 K
7/09 @ BOS – 7 IP, 3 H, 0 ER, 1 BB, 9 K
(He had his fair share of dominant 6 or 6+ IP starts, but I went with the ones where he went the longest)
Hughes’ 5 best starts:
4/09 @ DET – 6 IP, 2 H, 0 ER, 2 BB, 6 K
5/09 @ TEX – 8 IP, 3 H, 0 ER, 1 BB, 6 K
9/08 @ TOR – 8 IP, 5 H, 2 ER, 0 BB, 6 K
5/07 @ TEX – 6.1 IP, 0 H, 0 ER, 3 BB, 6 K
9/07 @ TB – 7 IP, 4 H, 1 ER, 2 BB, 5 K
The Pittsburgh Pirates to sign Elijah Dukes in 3…2…
So I guess the quickest way to kill this blog is to write a post about college basketball.
This could be helpful if the Yanks find themselves in an early season swoon and the trolls become unmanageable.
Granderson is the man.
“So I guess the quickest way to kill this blog is to write a post about college basketball.”
———–
either that or everyone is passed out drunk.
Bronx, we’re in the previous thread carrying an about topic due jour ….Phil v. Joba
A good topic would be how the Yankees really whiffed when they decided not to sign Aroldis Chapman.
The guy is going to open the season in the majors.
Show me another flame throwing lefty you could add to your rotation for $30 million for 6 years.
Makes me wonder about all the scouts who watched his workouts.
“Show me another flame throwing lefty you could add to your rotation for $30 million for 6 years.”
————
I was a huge proponent of signing Chapman… but only time will tell if it was a good signing.
We definitely can’t judge that deal now based on 2 ST appearances.
Of course, I think it would have been worth the risk, but I’m no scout and it wasn’t my $30M so my opinion doesn’t matter much.
G. Love….I’ve watched all of his outings, and so far he’s electric…..WOW….but then again it’s still early, but the early returns have been more than just impressive
“One helps the NEW YORK Yankees win baseball games.
The other helps the Scranton Wilkes-Barre Yankees win ballgames.”
————————
Even though this did not answer my original question I have wanted to discuss this topic so I will respond.
You can look at it 2 ways.
1. In 2010 this is in fact true. However organizational decisions should not be made based on 1 year or really in this case the net effect of 1-3 months. Yes Joba/Phil in the 8th inning instead of AAA at the beginning of the season helps the NYY win baseball games. 2010 on though may actually result in less wins. AAA may be better for their development long term which is better for the Yankees long term. The faster Hughes and Joba are ready to be SP the more wins the NYY will have over the course of their careers.
2. One helps NYY win ballgames is not so cut-and-dried. As 8th inning guys their “helping” even over the course of a full season will be minimal. For 1-3 months to start the season, it could very likely be negligible especially when you factor in the depth of the BP. If Joba/Hughes start the season in AAA and come up when someone gets injured they may end up contributing more wins to the Yankees and “helping” the big league club more.
How about “they can throw whatever pitches they like in the 7th and 8th inning”.
That’s THEIR choice.
———————————–
It is their choice.
But they are going to pick success over development every time out which means sticking to fastball + curve/slider.
“Sex is better up close and personal, FYI.
Perhaps you’ve forgotten?”
it’s like baseball stuckey.
i’ve probably forgotten more than you’ll ever know
“Joba’s mechanics really aren’t great. The good thing with him however is that he already throws 4 good pitches.”
CB-
that is the good thing as joba is very talented.
the problem is command with the four pitches.
command is obviously going to be hard to come by if you don’t repeat your delivery
every time because your release point is going to vary so much as well.
one thing i want to say is that i don’t think in the long run that joba and hughes are in competition with each other .
they really are two very different pitchers who are going to have a different developmental pattern. joba is going to have to harness the raw stuff he has and hughes is going to be adding stuff, as he adds pitches, to his already good stuff
i think they both could be #1s if the right scenarios play out for each , and i think they will benefit when they are separated from this competition with each other .
they are just not the same kind of pitchers.
even though joba burst on the scene with the four plus pitches , i think it may take him longer to put them all together with command.
hughes reminds me more of lester who just seems to slowly add each year to his game without regressing.
joba doesn’t remind me of anyone except joba, but if he wants it badly enough and works at it , i have no doubt that he could get it all together.
it just may take longer than we originally thought.
“But they are going to pick success over development every time out which means sticking to fastball + curve/slider.”
Development is a means, success is THE end.
Not trying to be dismissive, but you have questions and so do I.
Where is the evidence to suggest starting in the minors (for players of the age/experience of Hughes/Chamberlain) is superior to relieving in a major league bullpen?
Or to be more specific. Why is gaining confidence in 3rd or 4th pitches you throw maybe a combined 20% superior to simply learning to walk the major league walk?
“Where is the evidence to suggest starting in the minors (for players of the age/experience of Hughes/Chamberlain) is superior to relieving in a major league bullpen?”
There is no evidence that either is superior which is why AAA should not be completely dismissed.
“Or to be more specific. Why is gaining confidence in 3rd or 4th pitches you throw maybe a combined 20% superior to simply learning to walk the major league walk?”
This was my point. They have both already walked the walk. They have nothing more to learn in the 8th inning. There is only so much to getting 3 guys out at a time with 10-15 pitches especially when you are only throwing 1 pitch the vast majority of the time. Both have flat out dominated in the 8th inning just like they have dominated minor leaguers. Hughes was doing it last year just blowing fastballs by guys even though they knew it was coming.
However, what they can and would be doing in AAA (Hughes developing his change/cutter + Joba working on keeping his mechanics consistent for 6-8 innings at a time) are integral to their long term success as SP.
“AAA may be better for their development long term which is better for the Yankees long term.”
“MAY” being the operative word.
I’ve yet to see a compelling argument why that MAY be the case.
“2. One helps NYY win ballgames is not so cut-and-dried.”
Not when the alternative is NOT pitching for the NY Yankees.
“If Joba/Hughes start the season in AAA and come up when someone gets injured they may end up contributing more wins to the Yankees and “helping” the big league club more.”
Which assumes two things – 1.) Someone gets hurt; 2.) Someone gets hurts for an extended period.
Now that last point actually becomes more complicated depending the the timing of an injury.
I believe Hughes for 1 has only 1 option remaining. If you’re holding him reserve and a temporary needs happens relatively early, you’re back in the same boat sooner than later anyway.
“i’ve probably forgotten more than you’ll ever know”
Memory is going too, eh?
More matter, with less art.
“I’ve yet to see a compelling argument why that MAY be the case.”
I have also yet to see a compelling argument that pitching the 8th inning next year helps their development as SP. With Joba in particular though his primary problem as a SP is his mechanics. If the Yankees view him as SP long term a couple of months starting in the minors and working on his mechanics could be incredibly beneficial. His “SP mechanics” are not going to be helped as a RP.
“Not when the alternative is NOT pitching for the NY Yankees.”
Depends if you are talking about the first 1-3 months of the season or the entire season. I will always take the guy that results in the most wins at the end of the season regardless of how long they were helping the team get those wins.
“Which assumes two things – 1.) Someone gets hurt; 2.) Someone gets hurts for an extended period.”
Someone always gets hurt and likely more than 1 guy will get hurt at some point. Even if Hughes/Joba is called up for a couple of starts at the first injury and his options become an issue he can go to the bullpen and stay stretched out for the next spot start/injury which will probably happen rather soon after.
“There is no evidence that either is superior which is why AAA should not be completely dismissed.”
I’d again reiterate that all things being equal (which is the terms we’re talking about), pitching FOR the Yankees is better than not pitching for the Yankees.
I’d also reiterate that it’s far more complicated than simply having options for Hughes and/or Chamberlain. They’re both established major league pitchers that will receive rings on opening day.
Sending them back to minor league life is far more complicated than some are considering.
Maybe someone like Randy who’s spent time around the major leagues can back me up here?
“This was my point. They have both already walked the walk.”
So you want to demote them? And try to get them to buy into the fact it’s or their own good?
“They have nothing more to learn in the 8th inning. There is only so much to getting 3 guys out at a time with 10-15 pitches especially when you are only throwing 1 pitch the vast majority of the time.”
But that is simply NOT true and a common error made in this debate.
Phil Hughes threw his fastball/curveball in almost the exact same ratio in 2007, 2008 and 2009.
In case you’re wondering, it’s about 62% fastball and 20% curveball, across the board, all three years.
That you’re a 1 pitch pitcher in the 8th is a fallacy easily checked and repeated far too often around here.
Trust me, look it up.
“However, what they can and would be doing in AAA (Hughes developing his change/cutter + Joba working on keeping his mechanics consistent for 6-8 innings at a time) are integral to their long term success as SP.”
I’d then suggest what you’re ACTUALLY arguing is that regardless of how he performs this spring, Phil Hughes, because he spent the last 5 months of the season as a mostly 1 inning reliever, should start the season in AAA.
I don’t get the sense you believe he’ll be successful as a major league starter until he logs more innings as a minor league starter.
“Memory is going too, eh?”
what are you , canadian?
no wonder you’re having so much trouble understanding america’ s game.
Heard on loud mouths there’s a snag in the Mauer contract extension. The longer he holds out the better chance they trade him before the Yankees get him in free agency. How about a Montero, Joba, Johnson deal for Mauer. Posada goes to dh, Mauer behind the plate. We’d score a 1000 runs and have the best player in the game.
I wouldn’t trade Montero + Joba for the privilege of paying Mauer 300 million bux
“Maybe someone like Randy who’s spent time around the major leagues can back me up here?”
no major league time.
just around a lot of major league players in winter ball and spring training.
one thing i will say about going back to the minors.
the coaching depending on who is there can be minimal.
sj44 raves about the yankee triple a pitching coach so that’s probably not a problem.
i’m personally leaning toward whoever loses the competition should go to the bullpen to pitch multiple high leverage innings.
this way that pitcher can be returned to the rotation much quicker if the need arises and it probably will.
“I have also yet to see a compelling argument that pitching the 8th inning next year helps their development as SP.”
How about Phil Hughes was very good consistently for the first time in his major league career?
“With Joba in particular though his primary problem as a SP is his mechanics. If the Yankees view him as SP long term a couple of months starting in the minors and working on his mechanics could be incredibly beneficial. His “SP mechanics” are not going to be helped as a RP.”
Okay, so starting pitching repetition is integral to successful major league starting.
You argue Chamberlain has mechanical issues that can only be fixed in the minor leagues, and Phil Hughes needs development time as a starter to be a successful ML starter.
This again sounds to me like an argument for Aceves, Mitre or Gaudin for the 5th starter and Hughes AND Chamberlain in AAA to start the year.
Yes?
“I will always take the guy that results in the most wins at the end of the season regardless of how long they were helping the team get those wins.”
Fair enough. What you can’t do however, is make ANY case that being in AAA for 1-3 months will results in more wins in months 4-6 – PARTICULARLY of there is no major injury in months 4-6.
“Someone always gets hurt and likely more than 1 guy will get hurt at some point”
Who of Sabathia, Burnett, Vasquez or Pettitte got hurt last year?
“he can go to the bullpen and stay stretched out for the next spot start/injury which will probably happen rather soon after.”
Why can’t he just do that the entire year?
How about dropping dead?
I want my OWN players.
Good night.
“I’d again reiterate that all things being equal (which is the terms we’re talking about), pitching FOR the Yankees is better than not pitching for the Yankees.”
In terms of development and possibly even wins over the course of the season I very much disagree that this is an easy question.
“So you want to demote them? And try to get them to buy into the fact it’s or their own good?”
The semantics of what going to AAA means or how the Yankees explain this to them should not influence this decision. This is what is best for the NYY this year and long term and the Yankees do not owe these individual players anything. An argument I believe you have made before.
“But that is simply NOT true and a common error made in this debate.”
What I said was a mistake, because I very much know that Phil used his CB in the BP last year. I over-exaggerated my point and I recognize that. However, the point still remains we know Phil can throw a FB and a CB. I think it is fairly apparent though that the Yankees have wanted him to add an effective change up for years now. Last year he only threw it 0.8% of the time. The use of his cutter last year was promising, but his change up would take him to the next level especially since he has not been great against LH.
“I don’t get the sense you believe he’ll be successful as a major league starter until he logs more innings as a minor league starter.”
That is not how I feel. I feel that these guys are SP and need to be SP. The benefit they get from pitching in relief has run its course IMO. They both have things to work on as SP and unfortunately they both cannot do it at the major league level. Basically, for me the minors for 1-2 months > the 8th inning because those are the only 2 options.
“what are you , canadian?
no wonder you’re having so much trouble understanding america’ s game.”
[crickets]
Well, it was fun for a while anyway.
“You argue Chamberlain has mechanical issues that can only be fixed in the minor leagues, and Phil Hughes needs development time as a starter to be a successful ML starter.”
My argument is not that can ONLY be fixed in the minor leagues, but ONLY be fixed as SP. And this can very much be developed/worked on/fixed at the major league level.
“Fair enough. What you can’t do however, is make ANY case that being in AAA for 1-3 months will results in more wins in months 4-6 – PARTICULARLY of there is no major injury in months 4-6.”
Of course I can. Being in AAA for 1-3 months allows the guy to be a SP in months 4-6 which is MUCH more valuable than a RP in months 4-6.
“Who of Sabathia, Burnett, Vasquez or Pettitte got hurt last year?”
This is not really an argument worth having based on what they did last year. I am not going to go on record saying no team makes in through the season with 5 starters. But I am very confident in saying the Yankees will need a bare minimum of 6 starters next year regardless of those guys health last year. And likely more than 6 starters.
“Why can’t he just do that the entire year?”
If they are in the BP from day 1 Girardi will use the guy in the 8th inning.
“In terms of development and possibly even wins over the course of the season I very much disagree that this is an easy question.”
Pitching for the Yankees is a sure thing.
Awaiting a major injury to occur at just the right time is HIGHLY speculative.
That’s just a fact.
“The semantics of what going to AAA means or how the Yankees explain this to them should not influence this decision. This is what is best for the NYY this year and long term and the Yankees do not owe these individual players anything. An argument I believe you have made before.”
The difference between the minors and majors is not semantical by any stretch of the imagination, and it’s not a issue of philosophy or principle, it a pragmatic one.
You talk about their development. We all talk about Chamberlain’s mental make-up. Sending them to the minors is far more complicated than saying “we can do it, so we will, tough on them if they don’t like it”.
“But that is simply NOT true and a common error made in this debate.”
“The use of his cutter last year was promising, but his change up would take him to the next level especially since he has not been great against LH.”
Then I’m all for him throwing it, whatever inning he happens to be pitching.
“That is not how I feel. I feel that these guys are SP and need to be SP. The benefit they get from pitching in relief has run its course IMO.”
That’s fine and you’re entitled to your opinion, but I’d remind you it’s a completely arbitrary judgment. That it was run it’s course.
“They both have things to work on as SP”
Then why not BOTH do it in the minors?
I honestly don’t understand that argument that Phil Hughes can come off spending 5 months as 8th inning reliever and step RIGHT into the major league rotation as a 5th stater THIS year, but he’ll be completely unable to do it next year.
I can’t find any logic in that argument.
I honestly don’t understand that argument that Phil Hughes can come off spending 5 months as 8th inning reliever and step RIGHT into the major league rotation as a 5th stater THIS year, but he’ll be completely unable to do it next year.
I can’t find any logic in that argument.
————————————-
No one that I have seen on here advocating for AAA is saying he will be unable to do it next year if he pitches in relief this year.
The argument is what will make for the BEST version of Phil Hughes next year and years to come as a SP.
“My argument is not that can ONLY be fixed in the minor leagues, but ONLY be fixed as SP. And this can very much be developed/worked on/fixed at the major league level.”
If either of then can step into the rotation as a 5th starter THIS year, I don’t understand why ONE of them can’t do it NEXT year?
“Of course I can. Being in AAA for 1-3 months allows the guy to be a SP in months 4-6 which is MUCH more valuable than a RP in months 4-6.”
No you can’t. Because your argument is dependent on there being a spot in the ML rotation open in months 4-6.
“But I am very confident in saying the Yankees will need a bare minimum of 6 starters next year regardless of those guys health last year. And likely more than 6 starters.”
It’s less of a question of how many starters they will need and more of a question of how many spot of injury starts will be required.
You’re banking on 1 or more of of 4 guys with very reliable recent histories not only having an injuries, but having major ones.
“If they are in the BP from day 1 Girardi will use the guy in the 8th inning.”
You’re beginning to jump the shark. YOU argued they could be used that way. So what are you arguing now?
“Pitching for the Yankees is a sure thing.
Awaiting a major injury to occur at just the right time is HIGHLY speculative.
That’s just a fact.”
It does not need to be a major injury for Joba/Hughes to get starts on the major league level. There will be injuries of some form and the Yankees will need a 6th starter throughout the season whether these injuries are major or minor. Either way over the course of the full season as solely relievers their impact will be minimal. You are not sacrificing much at all.
“You talk about their development. We all talk about Chamberlain’s mental make-up. Sending them to the minors is far more complicated than saying “we can do it, so we will, tough on them if they don’t like it”.”
If sending them to the minors is going to have an impact of their mental makeup they are not cut out for the business of major league baseball. I really do not think this is an issue at all nor should it be.
“That’s fine and you’re entitled to your opinion, but I’d remind you it’s a completely arbitrary judgment. That it was run it’s course.”
It is also arbitrary and without real evidence that pitching as a set-up guy somehow helps you as a SP at any point let alone for multiple years.
“Then why not BOTH do it in the minors?”
Ideally they would BOTH do it in the majors. However, that is not an option.
“The argument is what will make for the BEST version of Phil Hughes next year and years to come as a SP.”
“Years to come”? So being in the bullpen will cause irreparable harm?
If one of Hughes or Chamberlain if asked to be a reliever this year, if asked to step into the rotation next year they’ll be asked to step in as the 5th starter in a deep rotation.
How much better does either of them need to be (accepting the notion just for sake of argument they will by rule be not as good) that sacrificing their contribution to the 2009 team is worth it?
“If either of then can step into the rotation as a 5th starter THIS year, I don’t understand why ONE of them can’t do it NEXT year?”
They can. But the Yankees may not be and I am arguing will not be putting the best possible version of those guys in the rotation next year by having them pitch out of the BP.
“No you can’t. Because your argument is dependent on there being a spot in the ML rotation open in months 4-6.”
I cannot guarantee a spot open in months 4-6 but it is pretty safe to assume there will be starts to had when you look at every major league team over the past several years. Additionally, if they Yankees have a comfortable lead in the standings like last year and by some miracle there is not a single injury they can go with a 6 man rotation to rest the guys for the playoffs.
“You’re banking on 1 or more of of 4 guys with very reliable recent histories not only having an injuries, but having major ones.”
I am not banking on major injuries at all. I am banking on the need for a 6th and likely 7th starter. Whether those starts come from 1 guy, 2 guys or 5 there will be starts to had. Also why are you leaving out the 5th starter? He could get hurt also.
“You’re beginning to jump the shark. YOU argued they could be used that way. So what are you arguing now?”
I argued they could be used that way if they are brought up from AAA as spot starters/fill ins for the rotation. That would be their role on the team. If they are in the BP from day 1 that is their role on the team and it is very unlikely Girardi wavers from that.
“Years to come”? So being in the bullpen will cause irreparable harm?
No. You are consistently confusing harm from the BP with greater benefit from AAA.
“If one of Hughes or Chamberlain if asked to be a reliever this year, if asked to step into the rotation next year they’ll be asked to step in as the 5th starter in a deep rotation.”
Not necessarily. (1) No one knows if Joba/Hughes work out as 5th starters this year and become a cog in the rotation next year. (2) Andy and Javy are both FA. Going into 2011 there are only 2 rotation spots. It is far from a foregone conclusion that the rotation will be deep as it stands now.
“How much better does either of them need to be (accepting the notion just for sake of argument they will by rule be not as good) that sacrificing their contribution to the 2009 team is worth it?”
I am not sacrificing their contribution at all. In fact I have said a few times that starting in AAA may end up in a greater contribution to the 2009 team.
“It does not need to be a major injury for Joba/Hughes to get starts on the major league level. There will be injuries of some form and the Yankees will need a 6th starter throughout the season whether these injuries are major or minor.”
But I’ll remind you again, you cannot keep shuffling Hughes or Chamberlain back and forth to the majors.
Being in AAA is NOT an answer to making spit starts over the full course of a season.
“Either way over the course of the full season as solely relievers their impact will be minimal. You are not sacrificing much at all.”
Innings are innings. 90 innings in ML relief is 90 innigs. That’s about 15 starts.
How does either Hughes or Chamberlain make those sort of starts over the course of a full season if not over consecutively?
How does either make those starts if scattered over 6 months?
“If sending them to the minors is going to have an impact of their mental makeup they are not cut out for the business of major league baseball.”
Platitudes are good and fine, but tell me how’d youd react to getting a MAJOR demotion at your job for an entire year?
“It is also arbitrary and without real evidence that pitching as a set-up guy somehow helps you as a SP at any point let alone for multiple years.”
My argument is pitching the major leagues is pitching in the major leagues. The burden is not on me to prove pitching in the minor leagues is better than pitching in the major leagues.
But to play along anyway. I’ll remind you Phil Hughes was very, VERY good last year. Consistently for the first time in his major league career.
That it did NOTHING for his make-up as a ML pitcher is something of a stretch, if you ask me.
“Ideally they would BOTH do it in the majors. However, that is not an option.”
Then it’s a moot point.
“Additionally, if they Yankees have a comfortable lead in the standings like last year and by some miracle there is not a single injury they can go with a 6 man rotation to rest the guys for the playoffs.”
You’re entering fantasyland now. Now major league team is doing that mid-season. Pitchers are creatures of habit.
We can argue the notion in theory all night, it just isn’t happening.
“I am not banking on major injuries at all. I am banking on the need for a 6th and likely 7th starter.”
But there is no method where Hughes or Chamberlain make random, irregular starts.
“I argued they could be used that way if they are brought up from AAA as spot starters/fill ins for the rotation. That would be their role on the team. If they are in the BP from day 1 that is their role on the team and it is very unlikely Girardi wavers from that.”
You know this how?
“No. You are consistently confusing harm from the BP with greater benefit from AAA.”
I’m consistently pointing out that writing “greater benefit from AAA” doesn’t make it so by repetition.
“I am not sacrificing their contribution at all. In fact I have said a few times that starting in AAA may end up in a greater contribution to the 2009 team.”
MAY… it’s a assumption. I’m starting with the known factors and going from there.
Is this what reading RAB is like?
“You’re entering fantasyland now. Now major league team is doing that mid-season. Pitchers are creatures of habit.
We can argue the notion in theory all night, it just isn’t happening.”
It is not fantasyland at all. Even with pretty much Mitre and Gaudin in the rotation last year the Yankees made an effort to rest their top 3 down the stretch. I did not say midseason as most leads are not comfortable midseason, because there is too much baseball left. Toward the end of the season it could be very beneficial and very realistic for the Yankees to give extra rest to the top guys.
“But there is no method where Hughes or Chamberlain make random, irregular starts.”
There is no method to shuffle them back and forth between AAA and the ML, but there are certainly methods to have one start in AAA and make irregular starts once called up if a major injury does not occur.
“I’m consistently pointing out that writing “greater benefit from AAA” doesn’t make it so by repetition.”
Then you should have said that or at least said something that infers that, because that is quite different from what you said about the BP resulting in irreparable harm.
“MAY… it’s a assumption. I’m starting with the known factors and going from there.”
The known factor is that Joba/Phil pitching in the BP for the full season will result in helping the Yankees win. The help they provide though is minimal so I am not concerned with potentially sacrificing that when the alternative is quite possible/realistic.
“There is no method to shuffle them back and forth between AAA and the ML, but there are certainly methods to have one start in AAA and make irregular starts once called up if a major injury does not occur.”
Again, I see nothing to prevent that from happening without the AAA wrinkle.
We can go on all night. For me this boils down to one simple point. I see people arguing that in order to be a successful ML starter, you must start, even if in the minor leagues.
The pitcher MOST of these people making the arguments favor to win the 5th starter’s role in a title defense year? The guy who spent the last 5 months of his career as an 8th inning reliever of course…
if starting and relieving are THAT different, then Phil Hughes should begin the year in AAA by default. I don’t buy into the premise, but if you do, I can’t see see you can disagree with the conclusion.
pinstripe blog has the latest demolition photos:
http://zellspinstripeblog.com/.....ium-31810/
Nick in SF…….Tomorrow’s games…..I’m on UTEP ( + 2.5 ) …Loving San Diego State ( + 4.5 )….Xaiver + 1…..Notre Dame – 2……Friday Cornell, Missori, Sienna CAL
” I see people arguing that in order to be a successful ML starter, you must start”
YES!!!
Similarly, in order to be a successful taxidermist, you must taxiderm.
At some point, at least.
And yet, in order to be a successful prostitute you don’t necessarily have to prostitute
When is Sam Borden gonna stop? Hey, Sam do us all a favor and let Chad do the talking.
stuckey,
You are completely missing the point. Obviously in order to be a successful ML you have to start but I do not seriously think you are arguing against that.
In 2011 the argument is that the BEST version of Hughes/Chamberlain will come from starting this year and not relieving. Of course they can go from relieving to starting.
And the argument does not lead to the conclusion that Hughes should go to AAA. Hughes may be the better SP today than Joba regardless of what he did last year and that is all that matters in this competition.
Pat M, those all sounds pretty solid… I still have a little homework to do tonight, I’ve been distracted.
Leaving Lohud for the night with this: I hope the Yanks sign Elijah Dukes.
“I hope the Yanks sign Elijah Dukes.”
Fat chance.
Say no to Duke…..No way…..
If you say no to Dukes I’m pretty sure he brandishes a firearm at you. Possibly via phone.
Been busy lately, saving innocent men and women from the gallows. Can’t say I’m sorry I missed the LGY and Stuckey show.
Been driving past the Stadium a lot lately for work and on my way home. It’s like a wake; I drive by, take a look at the old place. The image of the entire old stadium is still burned in my head so I’m not yet processing what I’m seeing. But as a lifelong NYer, I’m used to old stuff coming down and new stuff going up, regardless of the history involved. Thanks to the original Dutch, we’re all about business, creative destruction and letting history take care of itself. And the new place looks just great.
Still, I look across the Harlem river and try to guess what The Polo Grounds would look like today if they hadn’t stuffed those apartment buildings into Coogan’s Bluff.
They should have saved some part of the old stadium, maybe Gate 2.
murphydog – just a quick comment before I get going –
1. I know what you mean. I can’t look at the pix.
2. Keep up the good fight.
I guess I missed the LGY/Stuckey showdown last night. Would have been nice if GB7 had been around to referee.
I guess I missed the LGY/Stuckey showdown last night. Would have been nice if GB7 had been around to referee.
Well gate 2 was still standing a couple of days ago according to those pics somebody posted late last night.
More info here:
http://www.savetheyankeegate2.com/
Testing
“The image of the entire old stadium is still burned in my head so I’m not yet processing what I’m seeing.”
The view from the Deegan this past week has been particularly hard to look at as the old stadium has changed shape. Before that, you knew deconstruction was happening but it wasn’t apparent to the eye driving by. Now the landscape changes daily.
I keep getting filtered, and I don’t know why.
pat -
Is your power back or are you at work?
I am wondering why this stage of the demolition is proceeding slowly? Does the location of the stadium dictate the method of deconstruction? The Mets old stadium was gone within hours.
At least the Yankees weren’t relocated to an unfamiliar place. They are still in the same neighborhood. And thank heavens they didn’t move to Joisey, specifically the Meadowlands. What a transportation nightmare that would have been.
For anyone who is interested, I will accept Guess the Line Up entries until Chad/Sam posts the official lineup.
I want to thank everyone who has participated in GTLU during spring training. It’s been very helpful to me, and I think will ensure that the game runs smoothly during the regular season.
Doreen
Power FINALLY came back last night.
Implosions are not allowed in NYC and because of proximity to the subway and other buildings, they are taking the Stadium down a section at a time by level.
pat -
Thanks. It really just occurred to me that that must be the case.
Glad you finally got power back. I seriously don’t know if I’d survive!!!
You must have some pioneer spirit.
Doreen
I will play, thanks for hosting
SS Jeter
DH Johnson
1B Tex
3B Arod
2B Cano
C Posada
LF Granderson
RF Swish
CF GGBG
The discussion about the differences between Joba and Hughes is so interesting. I never thought about it like CB did as far as Joba being talented enough so that he’s got 4 pitches even with inconsistent mechanics. Phil as a 5 pitch pitcher? That would be crazy – I love it. What would the pitches be, though? FB ,Curve, cutter, change……..? I would love it if he turned into a RH Lester….. As to the competition between them, there shouldn’t be, but I think the fans have seen to it that there is. By that, I mean that it’s almost as if you have to choose sides: you’re either a Joba person or a Phil person. We all know that anyone rooting for one or the other is, by implication, rooting against the other one. It’s kind of sad, but that’s the way it is.
Pat
glad to hear you finally got your power back, that was a long time.
we had an ice storm in ’98 and lost power for quite awhile. It was kind of fun b/c everything, roads, businesses etc were all shut down. we convinced our son it was like winter camping, only inside our house.
Doreen,
OK. I’ll play even though these spring training line-ups seem to go to Joe Girardi
SS Derek
DH Johnson
1B Tex
3B ARod
2B Cano
C Posada
CF Granderson
RF Swish
LF Gardner
Thanks for hosting.
pat
I was w/o power during the last snow storm. It wasn’t fun. I’m glad you finally got yours restored.
Doreen
I was a good pioneer for 2 and a half days. After that, more like a nomad in search of a place to re-charge something.
Betsy -
I guess it ends up looking like fans are for or against one or the other; but if my outlook is any indication, it’s not that simple. And I know you’ve said that your preference for Phil doesn’t mean you’re against Joba. It depends on how you look at things. If the winners of the 20% competition both get to stay on the ML team, that’s a plus. I could imagine that Joba sees what Phil accomplished in a year in the bullpen. I could imagine that Joba realizes he had a rough season last year with some high highs and some low lows and a lot of inconsistency in between. I could imagine that Joba would want to stay on the ML team and work out of the bullpen – that that would be eminently preferable to having to go back to the minors. Even Phil last season expressed that he would rather work out of the bullpen in the majors than go to AAA.
I have stated here that if there is a mechanical issue with Joba that makes him ineffective, then the minors is where he belongs simply to correct the flaws (not a punishment). I feel that way because if there is a major mechanical issue, I would question whether he could be effective out of the pen, even.
However, back when Hughes and IPK were in the ML rotation to start the 2008 season (it was 2008, wasn’t it? Time is flying too fast), I thought they had more to learn in the majors than they could in the minors, because each of them was having no trouble mowing people down at AAA. Joba, too, for that matter. I mean, Hughes had never faced certain situations in the minors (bases loaded, I think, was one of them). So they only reason for either to go to AAA at this point is if there is a problem, a major one, in the way they’re throwing the ball.
As far as the future goes, well, I guess we will have to wait and see. I’m hoping the Yankees have been working on several plans on how to work these two into the starting rotation by next season. I don’t necessarily think that either one going to the pen precludes them being starters next year, but I suppose there will still be some issues.
It’s not easy developing pitchers and twice as difficult to do if you’re the Yankees (and Red Sox – look at Buchholz – he’s been bounced around, too, but no one talks about it in the media).
Betsy,
Yea the comments by Randy and CB were really good and I totally agreed with their analysis.
I would think the 5 pitches for Hughes would be 4 seamer, 2 seamer, cutter, curve, changeup. Really three of those are fastball variations but having three different velocities and movements on your fastball can be devastating (see Halladay and Lester).
Joba does have more talent stuff wise but being able to repeat your delivery is also a talent or skill that Hughes is just terrific at. They are totally different as CB and Randy pointed out but I think Phil’s ability to repeat his mechanics and “add things without regressing” will give him an easier path to success. Doesn’t mean Joba can’t get there, he will just have to take a different route.
no. It’s not bracket time
don’t follow college basketball. Despite mainstream media trying to ram it down people’s throats
Betsy-
” As to the competition between them, there shouldn’t be, but I think the fans have seen to it that there is. By that, I mean that it’s almost as if you have to choose sides: you’re either a Joba person or a Phil person.”
Morning.
Fortunately, there is a 3rd option- you can be a BOTH person.
Which some of us are. Devoutly so.
MTU,
If you’re a Yankee fan it makes no sense to NOT be a both person.
Kate and Rich
Thanks for your good thoughts. I kept reminding myself a roof over our heads and running water is more than some have to keep it in perspective but sometime on Tuesday I would have sold a kidney to blow dry my hair or microwave something.
pat,
how did you cook?
My range has an electric ignition (I guess the gas would work and I could use a lighter), and my oven is electric. It’s unbelievable how many things are power-dependent.
Take out. I guess the answer is take out.