The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Lineup in Clearwater

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 17, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Four players return from yesterday’s starting lineup. There is roughly a 50 percent chance of rain today in Clearwater.

Derek Jeter SS (oops, my bad)
Brett Gardner CF
Nick Johnson DH
Mark Teixeira 1B
Alex Rodriguez 3B
Marcus Thames LF
Randy Winn RF
Francisco Cervelli C
Ramiro Pena SS
Kevin Russo 2B

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132 Responses to “Lineup in Clearwater”

  1. Roger March 17th, 2010 at 8:52 am

    huh???Pena and Jeter are playing SS?And no CF?

  2. Doreen - 2010 GTLU March 17th, 2010 at 9:00 am

    And that’s the end of GTLU for today, gang. :lol:

    The Winner is Girardi, but congrats to Upstate Kate for guessing that Cervilli would Catch and bat 7th! :lol:

  3. Doreen - 2010 GTLU March 17th, 2010 at 9:03 am

    All I do is cut & paste – I don’t read. So, Roger, kudos to you for noticing the weird line up today! :)

  4. Doreen - 2010 GTLU March 17th, 2010 at 9:04 am

    Who wants to play Guess The Correction in the Line Up? I say, Gardner batting first and playing CF. :)

  5. Fran (the original) March 17th, 2010 at 9:05 am

    Even if we had time to play GTLU I never would have come up with this line-up.

  6. Erin March 17th, 2010 at 9:06 am

    Doreen – 2010 GTLU
    March 17th, 2010 at 9:04 am
    Who wants to play Guess The Correction in the Line Up? I say, Gardner batting first and playing CF.

    *************************
    I think you’re right. I didn’t think Jeter was going today

  7. Doreen - 2010 GTLU March 17th, 2010 at 9:06 am

    Erica -

    Today I figured out how to record my own macro. This is a good gig for me. :lol:

  8. Roger March 17th, 2010 at 9:10 am

    My guess:

    Gardner CF
    Johnson DH
    Tex 1B
    ARod 3B
    Thames LF
    Winn RF
    Cervelli C
    Pena SS
    Russo 2B

  9. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 17th, 2010 at 9:18 am

    I understand that the “loser” is not going to AAA, but I will never understand that. I still haven’t heard a reasonable explanation as to why not doing this is a good move. Let’s say Phil gets the 5th spot and Joba continues to struggle. I hardly think putting him in the pen is going to solve his problems. Also, the Yankees can win without Joba or Phil in the pen and it’s silly to think they can’t. If Joba has to get himself straightened out, then send him down there; I don’t get why it’s a big deal. Halladay was sent all the way to A ball to completely rework himself; we’re not talking about reworking Joba. If it’s Phil that loses, he needs to start – another year as set-up man would completely set him back. It’s fine to say that the 12 best arms are going north, but that doesn’t explain anything to me. If the Yankees don’t have a rationale behind it, then we have the right to criticize.

    As to Joba needing to be humbled, what – it’s ok that he continues to shake off catchers and be completely stubborn?

  10. Rick March 17th, 2010 at 9:22 am

    The picture gets clearer each day. The 12-man pitching staff is the nearest to resolution.
    The catching is set.
    Yet to be determined is the extra OF / bat off the bench.
    If Girardi truly likes Kevin Russo, he should give him some spots as a corner OF. His bat provides more than any of Thames, Hoffmann, Weber, or Winfree. Colin Curtis has good OF skills and decent bat.
    Any team in baseball would be thrilled to have the decisions that Girardi has to make before April 4th.

  11. Patrick March 17th, 2010 at 9:24 am

    Betsy,

    They would put Joba in the bullpen because the BP masks his problems and because the team is in a win-now mode.

    The Yanks are the defending world champions for goodness sake, they aren’t going to put one of their best pitchers in AAA!

    And I completely disagree that putting either Chamberlain or Hughes would mess with their development. Facing major league hitters will help their development more than owning AAA scrublords

  12. Patrick March 17th, 2010 at 9:26 am

    That second to last sentence is supposed to read, “And I completely disagree that putting either Chamberlain or Hughes in the bullpen would mess with their development.”

  13. SJ44 March 17th, 2010 at 9:28 am

    He doesn’t need to be humbled (he didn’t shake off a single pitch in his last outing) and doesn’t need to go to AAA.

    Here’s why you don’t send him to AAA…

    He’s one of the best pitchers on the team.

    He doesn’t need to be “completely reworked” at all.

    Sometimes, folks read blogs and believe an opinion someone shares about a player is fact. When IN FACT, the team doesn’t share that opinion.

    You know how Joba can get “fixed” going to the bullpen? By freeing his mind and just letting it fly.

    He doesn’t do that, for whatever reason, as a starting pitcher. Truth be told, neither did Phil Hughes until he got moved to the pen.

    Sometimes, going to the bullpen, when you just let it fly, is EXACTLY what young pitchers need to get back on track.

    This is not like the Roy Halladay situation in Toronto. When Doc went back to A Ball, he changed the ENTIRE WAY HE PITCHED. Arm angle, windup, grips on the fastball, adding a cutter, he was completely broken down and built back up.

    Joba doesn’t need that kind of extreme makeover.

    Lost in the panic of his outing the other day was the fact that his velocity and movement was better than its been this early in the Spring in 2 years.

    Going to AAA and dominating hitters does nothing for Joba Chamberlain.

    He just needs to PITCH. Period. In whatever that role is for the Yankees since he is still one of the best 8-10 pitchers on the team.

  14. Trevor March 17th, 2010 at 9:28 am

    I’m with Betsy. If Joba continues to struggle let him start the year in Scranton. They don’t need him as a set up man in April anyway.
    Last year Jose Veras was in that role early on. They’ll survive.

  15. Patrick March 17th, 2010 at 9:31 am

    “Truth be told, neither did Phil Hughes until he got moved to the pen.”

    Agree with everything else but this is absurd. He was owning house before they put him in the pen

  16. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 17th, 2010 at 9:31 am

    Patrick, I completely disagree. The Yankees can win without Joba or Phil in the pen for a month or two. They just don’t seem to know how to balance winning and developing for the future. They might as well trade either or both of these kids and get something for them if it’s just about winninig RIGHT NOW. Also, if they think Joba is a reliever, put him in the pen now. I don’t know why they’d give up on him so quickly – it doesn’t say much for how they will handle young pitchers in the future.

    I also completely disagree about Phil being a set up man not setting him back. I’ll leave Joba out of it because if he goes to the pen, IMO that’s where he stays. Phil as a set up man won’t use his curve or change. That means they will rust away with disuse – and I don’t care about the fact that he would work on them in side sessions. As Phil said yesterday, it’s not the same as throwing them in games. He would also throw very few innings in 2010 as a set up man, so he’d have worse innings restrictions in 2011. Nope, I remain convinced that a second year as set up man would be a backwards step for Phil in his development as a starter.

  17. Patrick March 17th, 2010 at 9:32 am

    Yeah brilliant plan lets piss away games in April because who cares its just april.

    A win in April counts just as much as a win in September. Joba will never sniff AAA this year unless he completely bombs or gets hurt.

  18. SJ44 March 17th, 2010 at 9:33 am

    Patrick,

    That’s what people can’t understand.

    You don’t take one of your best pitchers, which Joba is, and put him in AAA for “developmental reasons”, when his problems can be fixed at the major league level.

    Its messing MORE with his development if you send him to AAA. You start messing with his head and that’s the LAST thing you need to do to a kid who needs to think LESS and not MORE out there.

    As far as “masking his problems”, I disagree. I think it would help him more to be around the staff, CC, Andy and AJ, who constantly work with him, than it would beating the bushes in the minors, dominating AAAA and AAA hitters.

    He’s worked hard all Spring. His attitude is 100% better than last year. He’s in MUCH better condition than he was last year at this time. IMO, you punish the guy unnecessarily by sending him to AAA.

    In other words, you do more harm than good.

  19. Patrick March 17th, 2010 at 9:36 am

    “Phil as a set up man won’t use his curve or change”

    Simply not true.

    “He would also throw very few innings in 2010 as a set up man, so he’d have worse innings restrictions in 2011″

    Again, not true and something we’ve discussed before on this blog.

    I don’t think you understand pitching. It’s all muscle memory, your pitches don’t “rust away”.

    And they aren’t giving up on the loser of the 5th starter competition. The simple fact is, Javier Vazquez is a more reliable starter than Hughes and Chamberlain. If he wasn’t then both Joba and Phil would be in the rotation right now. A team as good as the Yankees can’t have both young guys in the rotation, they are breaking them in one at a time.

    Mark my words, if Joba goes back to the pen this year he will still be a starter long term. Cashman is not a dumb guy, he realizes that Joba can be a great starter and he’s not going to give up on him.

  20. SJ44 March 17th, 2010 at 9:37 am

    How did putting Hughes in the bullpen “set him back”?

    He attained more success at the major league leve than he ever did before.

    He helped the team win the World Series with his bullpen effort.

    He completely changed the trajectory of his career and has built on that with a solid Spring.

    Seems to me the move to the pen did wonders for Hughes.

    He hasn’t been hurt one bit going to the bullpen. In fact, he has said himself last year he would rather be in the bullpen in NY than the rotation in Scranton.

    I’m sure Joba feels the same way.

  21. MTU March 17th, 2010 at 9:37 am

    SJ-

    I curious as to your opinion on this.

    Do you believe if Joba were to go to the pen and have a very good year there that a career for him as a starter is over going forward ?

  22. Patrick March 17th, 2010 at 9:38 am

    SJ44,

    Putting Joba in the pen most definitely masks his problems. As far as I can tell, his mechanics have been a mess since he got hurt in Texas. Maybe you’re right and they’ve improved this spring but your argument rests on one start lasting 3(or was it 2?) innings.

    Joba can continue to pitch with his crap mechanics in the pen because he just throws harder and his stuff is good enough to carry him.

    I don’t know what the answer is but I don’t think it’s logical to put him in AAA.

  23. Patrick March 17th, 2010 at 9:42 am

    “Seems to me the move to the pen did wonders for Hughes.”

    Yeah I’m gonna have to agree here. What possible benefit could he have gained by destroying AAA batters for another season? He proved to himself that he can dominate at the major league level, that’s gotta be a huge help going forward.

    It’s not like it takes a huge amount of time to develop a pitch. You learn the grip, learn how to throw it and then repeat it a thousand times. That’s it. Even in AAA pitchers rarely are developing their pitches, it all happens in spring training and bullpen sessions.

    Hughes added a cutter last year without spending a ton of time in AAA. He has a vastly improved change-up this year. A.J. has improved his change-up as well. I just don’t see the need for extended time in the minors for guys that are at a certain talent level (ie – Chamberlain, Hughes)

  24. SJ44 March 17th, 2010 at 9:43 am

    Patrick,

    Once you build up a pitcher, the innings limitations expire.

    For example, Hughes can pitch 175 innings this year. Plenty for a 5th starter. That’s based off his previous high of 146 innings.

    In Joba’s case, now that he is built up, if for example he pitches 90-100 innings out of the bullpen this year (counting post-season), it doesn’t preclude him from EVER starting again.

    He could start next year and give them 160-180 innings if they so desire.

    The question that needs to be answered is, where do the Yankees see his future? Starter or future closer?

    That’s what we don’t know at this time.

  25. randy l. March 17th, 2010 at 9:44 am

    “huh???Pena and Jeter are playing SS?And no CF?”

    it’s a test of a new innovation in baseball- left shortstop and right shortstop.

    it will come in handy in 2015 when jeter is in the last year of his new contract.

  26. MTU March 17th, 2010 at 9:44 am

    Patrick-

    “Mark my words, if Joba goes back to the pen this year he will still be a starter long term. Cashman is not a dumb guy, he realizes that Joba can be a great starter and he’s not going to give up on him.”

    That is the 64thousand dollar question.

    So you think that if JC has very good year out of the pen he is still likely to remain a SP in the future because you think Cash
    wont give up on him ?

    I think just the opposite. That the more Joba looks strong out of the pen the more likely he stays there.

  27. Doreen - 2010 GTLU March 17th, 2010 at 9:44 am

    Do you guys saying Joba needs to be “humbled” understand how arrogant that sounds?

    Patrick -

    Who said the Yankees should “piss away” games in April?

  28. NYYROC March 17th, 2010 at 9:44 am

    MTU, I’d like to chime in on your question to SJ. I don’t believe Joba to the pen in 2010 precludes him from being a SP somewhere down the road, unless that is truly where the NYY want him. He could step back into the rotation in 2011 much like Hughes appears to be stepping back into the roation this year after sending 2009 in the pen. The question is do the NYY want Joba in the pen long term. Maybe they’ll shed some light on that in about a week when they decide who the #5 is.

  29. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 17th, 2010 at 9:47 am

    SJ, I never said Joba needed an extreme makeover; actually, I said the complete opposite. We’ll just have to agree to disagree. Why is it that disagreeing means not understanding? I’m thinking about the future – the Yankees can win without Joba for a month or so. I’m also not quite sure what you’re trying to say. If Joba gets put in the pen and he lets it fly, like Phil did, then who’s to say that he’s a reliever and not a starter? Good results in the pen won’t tell us anything as to where Joba is best suited for – the pen or the rotation.
    I also don’t think you’re reading my posts, I’m sorry. I said that Phil as set up man in 2010, for the 2nd year in a row, would set him back. If you don’t agree, fine …….

    Patrick, there’s no need to be sarcastic. Since you took that tack, there’s really no reason for us to continue this debate. Let’s just go back to the 1980’s where winning at all costs, future be damned, was the mantra.

  30. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 17th, 2010 at 9:47 am

    Are you directing that to me, Doreen?

  31. SJ44 March 17th, 2010 at 9:48 am

    Patrick,

    You can’t mask mechanical problems, especially if they are severe, by going to the bullpen.

    In Joba’s case, his mechanical problems aren’t as severe as some posters thing they are.

    He’s a guy with a lot going on in his delivery. Its just something that you have to constantly be on top of.

    CC has the same thing going on with his mechanics. All pitchers do for that matter.

    Part of developing your craft is being able to self-correct quickly. That’s what Joba is trying to do now.

    MTU,

    It all depends on how the Yankees view Joba long term.

    He could have a great year out of the bullpen, as Hughes did last year, and slide into the rotation next year.

    If Hughes can do it this year, there is no reason why Joba can’t do it next year.

    The question is more in how the Yankees view Joba’s future than it is whether or not he can return to starting if he relieves this season.

  32. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 17th, 2010 at 9:49 am

    Well SJ, I guess Joba gets special treatment because Phil was demoted to the AAA. He also got called out by Damon….yet Joba doesn’t. Go figure.

  33. Patrick March 17th, 2010 at 9:50 am

    Doreen,

    People that want Joba in AAA are basically saying that the Yankees should intentionally field a weaker major league team. To me that’s just asking to lose games. It’s either arrogance, that this team is so damn good it doesn’t matter if one of the best pitchers isn’t here, or it’s stupidity, thinking that games in April don’t count.

    SJ44,

    The bit about expiring innings limits is what I was trying to convey but you worded it much better than I.

    “The question that needs to be answered is, where do the Yankees see his future? Starter or future closer?

    That’s what we don’t know at this time.”

    True. We both know that, if Joba can do it, a starter is more valuable than a reliever. I just feel that if Joba goes out and has a great year, Cashman will give him another shot in the rotation. Cash gets it, he knows that young starting pitchers are gold in this league.

    The media can spout as much BS as they want about him being Mo’s heir, how his demeanor is that of a set-up man, etc. It doesn’t matter, Cashman understands that Joba as a starter is the most valuable to the team.

    Even if Joba spends the entire 2010 season in the bullpen I think Cashman will still plan on starting him in 2011.

  34. tk March 17th, 2010 at 9:51 am

    “Joba can continue to pitch with his crap mechanics in the pen because he just throws harder and his stuff is good enough to carry him.”

    I fear that too. When Joba pitched out of the pen in the playoffs it wasn’t like he reverted to the unhittable beast he once was. Rather, he looked like you described–a pitcher with the same mechanical issues that relied on adrenaline and max effort to get enough extra velocity to get through 2-3 batters.

    I hope SJ is right about Joba relaxing once he settles into the bullpen this year. If this allows him to pitch anywhere close to the way he did in ’07-’08, the Yankee bullpen will be utterly dominant. Personally, I don’t expect to see the Joba that took baseball by storm as a reliever or the one who showed the promise of being one of baseball’s elite young starters. I would love nothing more than to be wrong about this…

  35. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 17th, 2010 at 9:52 am

    Well, thank you Patrick. I’m stupid and/or ignorant……feel free to ignore my posts from now on.

  36. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 17th, 2010 at 9:53 am

    Oh excuse me – stupid or arrogant. You would know about arrogant.

  37. Patrick March 17th, 2010 at 9:54 am

    “You can’t mask mechanical problems, especially if they are severe, by going to the bullpen.”

    I half agree. It’s true that Joba will never be a bullpen ace if his mechanic troubles continue. But he could get by out of the pen. By that I mean he could probably pitch to a 3.5 ERA out of the pen (nothing special but not terrible) even with his bad mechanics. But if he throws like that in the rotation he’d have an ERA near 5.

    When Joba is right he can throw it 96-97 without muscling the pitch. If he really bears down he can hit 100. But when his mechanics suck he can still get to 96-97 if he muscles it which is good enough for the pen but would never work in the rotation.

  38. Patrick March 17th, 2010 at 9:55 am

    Sorry Betsy but what else can I say? Intentionally weakening the team so you can embarrass one player is stupid and/or arrogant.

  39. Doreen - 2010 GTLU March 17th, 2010 at 9:56 am

    Betsy -

    Not particularly – a lot of people here have said the same thing. If I was directing it to you, I would have been explicit.

    It just does sound arrogant to me. It’s a pretty strong thing to say a person needs to be “humbled.” Richard Nixon needed some humbling. Joba? Counseled, maybe. Or if he had said in print that he knows better than the Yankees/his catcher or something like that. I don’t recall that. Shaking off his catcher hasn’t been wonderful to see, I get that. But I stop short of condemning the kid as someone who’s too big for his britches, which is pretty much what I get from the statement that he has to be “humbled.”

  40. miggs - GTLU Reigning Champion March 17th, 2010 at 9:58 am

    Same old same old…..

    SJ and Patrick stating facts using logic and sports knowledge.

    Others whining about the same crap as always, getting defensive, and lashing out at other posters.

    Some things never change.

  41. SJ44 March 17th, 2010 at 9:58 am

    Betsy,

    You are too emotionally involved with anything regarding Phil Hughes.

    Derek Jeter called out Joba TWICE last year. Once in the locker room and once on the mound against the Mets.

    Johnny Damon never walked to the mound, as Jeter did to Joba in that Mets start, and called him out.

    Jeter just didn’t give the media a blow by blow of it. That’s the difference.

    Girardi and Eiland have got into Joba’s grill more times than they have with any pitcher in their tenure in NY.

    There hasn’t been any “special treatment” of Joba.

    Re: Hughes going back to AAA, Betsy, come on now.

    As badly as Joba pitched for stretches last year, he still pitched better than Phil did as a starter in 2008.

    Nobody is getting special treatment.

  42. miggs - GTLU Reigning Champion March 17th, 2010 at 9:59 am

    What I wouldn’t do for an “ignore” button to block certain posts….

  43. Doreen - 2010 GTLU March 17th, 2010 at 10:00 am

    Patrick -

    If the Yankees do end up sending Joba to AAA (which is a slim chance, I admit), I think they would basically be saying that at this point in time they do not consider him to be one of the best arms on the team, but still potentially one of the best arms on the team.

    I’m certainly no expert, not even close. I guess I’m not comfortable with declaratory statements when it comes to these decisions; you could even say I’m wishy-washy – or, rather, that I’m more comfortable qualifying my opinions. Hedging my bets, so to speak.

  44. Patrick March 17th, 2010 at 10:02 am

    SJ44,

    I noticed Jeter gave Joba an earful once or twice on the mound, I kind of guessed what it was about but nice to hear it confirmed. A lot of people downplay Jeter’s leadership but I think he does a great job as captain.

    Doreen,

    If the Yanks send Joba to AAA they would do so only if they think there are 12 guys better than him. If that were the case, I’d be fine with it. But the fact is, Joba is not worse than Mitre, Gaudin, Logan, Ring, Melancon, etc

  45. miggs - GTLU Reigning Champion March 17th, 2010 at 10:04 am

    It seems pretty clear to me how everything is going to shake out.

    Hughes is the 5th starter, Joba is the 8th inning guy.

    Mitre or Gaudin will probably be dealt around opening day, leaving Aceves with the one NOT traded to serve as long men/6th starters.

    Frankly that’s where they belong this season and for many seasons to come.

    I was all for Joba starting….. I still wish he could fill that role someday. But the “eye test” shows a completely different pitcher starting than coming in from the pen.

    Joba has all the physical tools to be a starter…. endurance, 3 plus pitches, lively fastball. Maybe he just doesn’t have the mental makeup to start.

    It certainly wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world finding Mo’s replacement while Mo is still Mo.

    Forget statistics, my eyes tell me than replacement is Joba.

  46. Doreen - 2010 GTLU March 17th, 2010 at 10:05 am

    Patrick -

    You know, I don’t think Joba is worse than them, either, in general – though he’s had some tough outings (I sat through one last June at the Stadium). I think there might be too much focus on all things Joba. Might do well to take a step back every so often. (I mean the onlookers, not Joba.) :)

  47. SJ44 March 17th, 2010 at 10:06 am

    I think the only way Joba goes to AAA is if he is so bad today and in his next start, they believe he needs a “complete makeover”.

    Absent that, there is no reason to send him to AAA.

  48. pat March 17th, 2010 at 10:07 am

    Day 4 and counting of no electricity. :sad:

    I’m using 5 minutes of laptop battery charge to read just what Chad writes to get my Yankee fix.

    It’s getting so bad I’m jonesing to read a 5th starter and Joba should be in the pen debate. :wink:

  49. randy l. March 17th, 2010 at 10:08 am

    “It’s not like it takes a huge amount of time to develop a pitch. You learn the grip, learn how to throw it and then repeat it a thousand times. That’s it”

    patrick-

    wouldn’t you say that’s rather simplistic?

    if not, i want you to go to the range and learn the stack and tilt swing .

    you know, the one where you keep your weight on the front side in what looks like a reverse pivot , but isn’t if you do it right.

    the plusses of the stack and tilt is there’s only one pivot point which simplifies things tremendously.

    i’m going to give you a thousand swings learning the new swing.

    at the end of those thousand swings you will be a scratch player ?

    no, why not?
    you took a thousand swings didn’t you?

    thousand pitches? thousand pitches?

    if a thousand pitches were all it took to learn a new pitch then every pitcher in the majors would be throwing 4- 5 pitches .

    they obviously don’t.

    hughes had plenty to learn a few years ago by staying at triple a for another full year.

    if he didn’t he wouldn’t be working so much on his change right now.

  50. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 17th, 2010 at 10:08 am

    SJ, I have criticized Phil where I believe it was warranted, namely last year in the playoffs AND when he argued balls and strikes with the umpire. I can’t help it if people don’t remember that.

    Ok, Patrick, whatever. I don’t know you from Adam so somehow I’ll survive without your approval. IMO, you have the same old Yankees mentality that got them into trouble in the first place – win at all costs right now at the expense of the future.

  51. vb03 March 17th, 2010 at 10:08 am

    Joba working in the bullpen this year doesn’t have much to do with him working in the rotation in 2011. They’ll need a starter then with Pettitte nearing the end of the line, and Hughes moves up to 4th starter status after a year of being a 5 starter under his belt.

    Cashman and the Yankees missed the playoffs relying on breaking in two kids in the rotation at the same time. It’s not happening again, and for a win-now team this is the proper strategy.

  52. Patrick March 17th, 2010 at 10:08 am

    Yeah if Joba just bombs for the rest of spring training the Yanks will have no choice but to put him in AAA. He did not pitch like a major league pitcher at the end of 2009 and if he continues that he will end up in Scranton.

    I don’t see that happening though, he’s just too good to be bad for so long.

  53. Coach6423 March 17th, 2010 at 10:10 am

    The “Special Treatment” whining is so typical Betsy. Phil was brutally bad in 2008. He went down, worked on his craft and improved. Joba was inconsistent last year no doubt, but it wasnt until he hit his previous total and his starts were fudged with till he was just bad. Other than being young, and they both pitched well out of the bullpen, there really isnt any comparison to their careers at this point.

  54. SJ44 March 17th, 2010 at 10:12 am

    Patrick,

    My nephew and Joba are very friendly. Joba really is a good kid.

    Randy hit on it last week. He got a little “too much, too soon” about him and the veterans on the team (led by Jeter) let him know about it. He will well liked by the guys on the team.

    He’s in much better shape than last year. He’s also more coachable and CC has been a big help in that regard.

    I just think the Yankees have too much invested in Joba to put him on the Scranton Shuttle.

    He has the unique ability to be able to help the team as a starter and in the bullpen.

    I think if he ends up in the pen, it may actually help him because I think Joba needs to get some swagger back.

    He’s overthinking on the mound, putting too much pressure on himself, and its hurting more than helping.

    If he starts coming out of the pen, and has success, I think it puts him on a faster track to putting it all back together again.

    It sure as heck worked for Hughes last year. The same can happen for Joba.

  55. Patrick March 17th, 2010 at 10:14 am

    randy,

    Thousand was just a number I pulled out of my butt. There have actually been studies done that if you want to become great at something you have to do it 10,000 times or spend 10,000 hours working on it or something like that.

    I actually golf but I don’t use the stack and tilt.

    My point was that there isn’t a huge amount of prep that goes into learning a pitch. These guys know their mechanics. It’s just a matter of repeating the pitch over and over the develop the proper muscle memory to throw the pitch at will.

    Betsy,

    Ok whatever floats your boat. Either clarify your statements or don’t get offended when I speak the truth.

  56. vb03 March 17th, 2010 at 10:14 am

    The whole Jobamania episode a couple years ago set the bar too high, this development phase is typical of all young pitchers. It wouldn’t be surprising if Joba took a couple more years in perfecting his mechanics and learning to pitch in a dominant fashion at the big league level.

  57. bru March 17th, 2010 at 10:15 am

    the problem is that joba has not pitched well in any role for a very long time

    we have our 4 starters & 5 pen guys guaranteed

    cc
    burnett
    pettitte
    vaz

    mo
    robertson
    marte
    park
    ace

    we need 3 more & hughes is in as the 10th wether it be a starter or reliever

    that leaves 2 more pitchers out of several

    going to be interesting to see how joba does his next outing but him in AAA should never be ruled out

    joba needs to work on his secondary pitches & if he is one of the best 12 he should travel north

    but if he is not he should go south

  58. Patrick from CT March 17th, 2010 at 10:15 am

    One reason to send Joba to AAA is to keep him streched out for when, not if, someone gets hurt and needs to miss a couple of starts or more.
    Having the 6th, 7th, and 8th best starters on the 25 man roster may not be best. I don’t see these guys all getting enough work to be able to step in to a starting roll when it is needed.
    Phil started in AAA last year came up and filled in great as a starter.
    Who’s going to be that guys this year if Joba, Ace, and Godan are all in the pen picthing 2-4 inning per week.
    If Joba goes to the pen then the odds are he will not start a game this year, and no way is he getting 100 inngs.

  59. Jon Sheely March 17th, 2010 at 10:15 am

    What did Yogi Berra say to Don Mattingly when he found out the Yankees were going to sell pink throw-back jerseys?

    “Don, we now are gay apparel.”
    Fa-la-la-la-la, la-la-la-lah.

  60. Patrick March 17th, 2010 at 10:16 am

    “IMO, you have the same old Yankees mentality that got them into trouble in the first place – win at all costs right now at the expense of the future.”

    If that were the case I’d want the Yankees to put Hughes and Chamberlain in the bullpen to start the year and go with Gaudin/Ace as the fifth starter. That would be, by far, the strongest team the Yanks could produce in 2010. Clearly I don’t want this to happen so your argument fails.

  61. vb03 March 17th, 2010 at 10:17 am

    Keeping one of your top ten best pitchers in AAA for an “insurance” policy that may never even materialize is silly when he could be helping lock down wins for the big league team.

  62. MTU March 17th, 2010 at 10:17 am

    SJ-

    With the proviso that JC is not finished as a SP by going to the pen this year then I’m cool with it.

    I hope the future flexibility is as you say.

  63. SJ44 March 17th, 2010 at 10:18 am

    Counting the post-season, Hughes got close to 100 innings last year. If Joba goes into the pen, he will be at, or over, that number.

    If he goes to the bullpen, the Yankees put more value on what he can do there than being the #6 starter in the rotation.

    They have guys for that role.

  64. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 17th, 2010 at 10:20 am

    Sure, Patrick. You go ahead and think I’m ignorant – whatever floats your boat.

  65. Patrick March 17th, 2010 at 10:21 am

    Never said you were ignorant.

  66. five iron from fenway March 17th, 2010 at 10:21 am

    SJ – You know what also worked for Hughes last year – health. I think Joba will have the same thing going for him (presuming the arm issue is passed). It took Hughes awhile to get back to his reported minor league velocity and to recover from the sundry injuries.
    One could argue Joba was still feeling the after effects of the injury. It might not be the pure physical injury that lingers, but rather the psychological impact and the throwing the mechanics out of whack impact.
    We had a very nice back and forth a couple of days ago about this spring competition. In thinking about your responses more fully, I am leaning more towards you perspective on Joba in the pen with two major caveats – for this year. 1. I simply am not willing to give up on a potential front of the rotation, cost controlled, cheap starter which Joba certainly has the potential to grow into (and has shown flashes of in his rookie season). 2. If he is Mos successor. The Yankees will need to replace Mo in the not too distant future. If Papelbon could do it in Boston with a lesser arsenal (certainly comparing starter to starter) than Joba can do it as well.

  67. Bronx Jeers March 17th, 2010 at 10:23 am

    It’s going to be very interesting to see Joba pitch today. I bet ya he steps it up too. He usually works better when Joe throws down the gauntlet. That seems to say that his problems are at least partially mental.

    But I do want Phil to win this competition. And if he had a slight advantage at the onset, he’s earned that lead since.

    Let Phil & Joba switch roles this season. It’s what’s best for everybody.

  68. ditmars1929 March 17th, 2010 at 10:23 am

    Betsy, give it a rest already. You worry about EVERYTHING and then get defensive. Relax. The Yankees are defending champions and well poised to repeat regardless of the starter/bullpen/AAA debate. They have the arms regardless of how they are employed. Try to enjoy the spring.

  69. SJ44 March 17th, 2010 at 10:23 am

    The Yankees felt Hughes was more important as a setup man in 2009 than being the 6th starter. Guess what? They were RIGHT.

    That decision did as much to help them win the World Series as any decision they made last year.

    Has it hurt Hughes? Nope. He has a WS ring, a LOT more confidence than he had in 2008, and is probably going to be the #5 starter this year.

    I’d say it worked out quite well for Hughes.

    The same can happen for Joba this year if that’s the way it shakes out.

    For a team contending for a WS, its more important to have a strong 8th inning guy, especially when your closer (no matter how good he is) is 40, than it is being a #6 starter on the Scranton Shuttle.

  70. vb03 March 17th, 2010 at 10:24 am

    Any aspiring winning team that has an extra young starter with ML talent always puts them in the bullpen, because there is nothing more to be gained experience-wise from the AAA level. When wins are the priority, this is the most logical course of action.

    Some examples are David Price for TB during their AL title run, J.A. Happ last year in the playoffs, and former starter Andrew Bailey who really excelled out of the bullpen in Oakland.

  71. I like Inge March 17th, 2010 at 10:25 am

    Hughes and Chamberlain are major league arms that were key parts of a World Championship team. The minor leagues is not an option for these two guys. That’s wasting talent.

  72. Erica - always OPPC March 17th, 2010 at 10:27 am

    Is it pick on Betsy day????

  73. Ken March 17th, 2010 at 10:28 am

    Yeah, send one of them back to AAA. That will teach them how to get ML hitters out.

    My God people, don’t you get tired of this endless argument?

    Pitching out of the pen is an excellent way for young pitchers to learn how to succeed at the ML level. It used to be the primary way young arms were broken in.

    Why get all worked up about it? See how it plays out and let the people who actually know what is going on handle it.

  74. SJ44 March 17th, 2010 at 10:29 am

    Jeers,

    That’s the way I see it.

    I was a BIG proponent of Joba being in the rotation.

    However, its plain as day he pitches differently in the rotation than he does out of the bullpen.

    I’m one who believes Joba needs the emotion, the swagger, whatever you want to call it, to pitch effectively.

    He doesn’t have it as a starter. Its kind of like a hippie trying to fit in with the RNC. It doesn’t fit.

    I want to him him go back to being the attacking, “here is my stuff, try and hit it” kind of kid he was in 2007 and for a good number of starts in 2008.

    I think he has a better chance of capturing that working out of the Yankee bullpen than he does the Scranton rotation.

    If he does recapture it? Then you think about putting him back in the rotation for 2011.

    However, if he doesn’t recapture that kind of pitching magic, it won’t matter where you put him. Its not going to work out.

  75. ditmars1929 March 17th, 2010 at 10:30 am

    Not at all Erica, Betsy often makes good points, but the constant hand-wringing when discussing a champion caliber team just gets really old after a while.

  76. randy l. March 17th, 2010 at 10:30 am

    one thing all the differing comments about joba illustrate is that joba is a high maintenance pitcher .

    i doubt it’s ever going to stop simply because joba will be in shape, out of shape, get dui’s, not get dui’s, shake everyone off , not shake everyone off, be a star, not be a star, throw 100, not throw 100, etc.

    joba would be perfect for a reality show.

    i still say he has a lot of john daly in him.

    the bullpen is an ideal place for this kind of folk hero.

    it’s not that he can’t start.it’s just that he has to be good joba to do it.

    the flake in him doesn’t do well with four days off.

    can joba be a great starter?

    sure, but how much energy do the yankees plan to put into joba to keep him focused on the right things and on course ?

    at some point all the coaching and management energy that is needed for such a high maintenance guy gets old.

    cashman, girardi, and eiland may simply tire of pushing the rock up the hill just to see it roll back down.

  77. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 17th, 2010 at 10:31 am

    Erica, it’s ok. One person makes a habit of it, but I’ve learned to ignore him. I’ve bowed out of the conversation as going round and round when we disagree isn’t getting us anywhere. How are you feeling?

  78. Patrick March 17th, 2010 at 10:31 am

    SJ44,

    I didn’t like the Hughes to 8th inning move last year but you really can’t argue with the results. Lets be fair though, it was a risk. The Yanks were lucky to get through the postseason with only 3 starters.

  79. I like Inge March 17th, 2010 at 10:32 am

    Ken is right on. Way too much over analyzing the 5th starter spot. One of the young guys wins the spot and the other one gets the set-up role.

    Both guys are young, have bright futures, and they seem like tough cookies. They can deal with the decision and move on.

  80. vb03 March 17th, 2010 at 10:33 am

    Patrick March 17th, 2010 at 10:31 am

    SJ44,

    I didn’t like the Hughes to 8th inning move last year but you really can’t argue with the results. Lets be fair though, it was a risk. The Yanks were lucky to get through the postseason with only 3 starters.

    ——————–

    That’s why Vazquez was a very astute acquisition. The brass removed a lot of question marks for the rotation with that trade. Three starters in the playoffs, one of which is almost 40, is never a good idea, but the Yankees were left with no choice at the time.

  81. Erica - always OPPC March 17th, 2010 at 10:34 am

    Betsy-

    Not very good today, but thanks for asking. My nose is running like a leaky faucet. In a perfect world, I could have called in sick today- but that is so not allowed.

    I am just trying to get thru my lists of crap to do and make the best of it.

    I only quickly scroll thru the comments and when I notice a lot of them seem to be telling you to calm down, I worry they aren’t speaking spoken nicely. We all know you are a worrier, there is no need for 4 people to tell you that :-)

  82. SJ44 March 17th, 2010 at 10:35 am

    Patrick,

    They had to because Joba failed as a starter last year.

    Had he not failed, they wouldn’t have had to rely on only 3 starters in the post-season.

    Enter Javy Vazquez and, provided there is good health across the board, that won’t be a problem this year.

    The Yankees have guys like Gaudin (at least for now), Ivan Nova, Jason Hirsh, Zach McAllister, even Aceves in a pinch, to be #6 starters. Those guys are perfect for that role.

    Give me a lockdown 8th inning guy to get the ball to Mariano and that’s going to win me a lot more games over the course of a season than a #6 starter.

  83. five iron from fenway March 17th, 2010 at 10:35 am

    Patrick,
    Yeah but now the Yankees arguably have 4 solid starters with Phil/Joba as number 5.
    I worry thought about moving back and forth and forth and back from the bullpen to the rotation.
    My final thought is that as long as the Yankees leave open the possibility that if Joba can reclaim his stuff there will be a spot in the rotation for him either later this year or next year I am good with that. Unless Joba becomes Mo 2.0 and other bullpen role will not be as valuable as even a middle of the order cost controlled starting pitcher.

  84. ditmars1929 March 17th, 2010 at 10:36 am

    vb03, that’s a great point regarding Vaz. Actually, I thought they should’ve hung onto him after his first year, even though he had some pretty awful moments. A mulligan, I think the term is. I’m glad to see him back.

  85. Coach6423 March 17th, 2010 at 10:36 am

    Look out, Elijah Dukes released, here come all the people suggesting he should be our Left Fielder…

  86. Patrick March 17th, 2010 at 10:37 am

    I’m not arguing at all. I love the pitching staff the Yankees have this year.

  87. bru March 17th, 2010 at 10:38 am

    miggs – GTLU Reigning Champion
    March 17th, 2010 at 10:04 am
    It seems pretty clear to me how everything is going to shake out.

    Hughes is the 5th starter, Joba is the 8th inning guy.

    Mitre or Gaudin will probably be dealt around opening day, leaving Aceves with the one NOT traded to serve as long men/6th starters.

    Frankly that’s where they belong this season and for many seasons to come.

    I was all for Joba starting….. I still wish he could fill that role someday. But the “eye test” shows a completely different pitcher starting than coming in from the pen.

    Joba has all the physical tools to be a starter…. endurance, 3 plus pitches, lively fastball. Maybe he just doesn’t have the mental makeup to start.

    It certainly wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world finding Mo’s replacement while Mo is still Mo.

    Forget statistics, my eyes tell me than replacement is Joba.
    ———————————————————

    i agree

    the only question i have would be is if cashman & girrardi do not wan’t to give up on joba as a starter because they wan’t to continue a plan that has started & maybe they feel he could be close

    that is the only reason why i think AAA should not be ruled out if cash & girrardi agree but i have no major problems with joba in the pen

    i just would like joba to stay as a starter now until all doubts are removed & right now they are not. even cash & girrardi,others do not know for sure

    i just long for those days when joba was mowing them down as a starter making it look effortless against becket in fenway & the few games after the ASB.

    there is no way of knowing for sure unless the process is completed & the innings are put in

    you can speculate all you wan’t but we just don’t know for sure
    this includes cash,girrardi & scouts/baseball people

    you just can’t keep putting every pitcher in the pen

    at some point the process of starting has to begin & be completed

    i also have a good feeling about hughes

  88. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 17th, 2010 at 10:39 am

    Erica, aww – I’m sorry you can’t just stay home; feel better! I have different opinions than most and I won’t back down – but at some point, you give up the ghost for the sake of civility and perhaps my sanity, lol. The only thing that bothers me is the perception that I can not be objective regarding Phil, but I’ve given up on trying to persuade anyone that that is not the case because it’s a fruitless task. I’m not even worried about anything today, lol.

  89. MTU March 17th, 2010 at 10:40 am

    The final word:

    Let’s all hope that the Yankees dont suffer from either of the following eye conditions.

    1) Myopia

    2) Tunnel Vision

    :)

  90. MaineYankee March 17th, 2010 at 10:45 am

    randy

    “the flake in him doesn’t do well with four days off.”

    Does this mean you understand how Joba ticks? :lol:

    I think you are on the right track in regards to Joba.

    He seems to be somewhat of a complex personality. I’m not saying this in a negative way, just that he’s not as simple to figure out as some are. Alot of moving parts in his personality that maybe he hasn’t figured out himself. Some of this will improve with maturity.

  91. five iron from fenway March 17th, 2010 at 10:45 am

    MTU – or from the infamous Hot Shots movie – Wall Eye Vision

  92. miggs - GTLU Reigning Champion March 17th, 2010 at 10:47 am

    This is the year Robbie Cano gets his first MVP votes….you heard it here first.

    I’m not saying he’s going to win, but the numbers he puts up will be simply too exceptional to ignore.

    Take his 2009 season and add about 30 RBIs. Same average, doubles, HRs, etc.

  93. MTU March 17th, 2010 at 10:51 am

    Five-

    Right on !

    Hyperopia would be ideal. ;)

  94. miggs - GTLU Reigning Champion March 17th, 2010 at 10:51 am

    Who is running GTLU this year?

    Is Erica still ruling with an iron fist or has someone else taken over?

  95. teddy March 17th, 2010 at 10:52 am

    joba failed as a starter? no he didn’t

    joba was never in the plans to be a postseason starters, thats what wang was for.

    the only thing that failed was how cashman and giradri handle him.

    joba numbers as a starters were fine as a young starter, a high whip yes.couldn’t go more than 5 to 6 innings, thats happens to pretty much every young pitcher.

    joba failed as a starter, if you expecting an ace type season

  96. Erin March 17th, 2010 at 10:52 am

    BryanHoch The Yankees are 6-5 on St. Patrick’s Day over the last 10 years, with two split squads (2001, 2002) and a 2005 rainout. 39 seconds ago

  97. Erin March 17th, 2010 at 10:53 am

    five iron from fenway
    March 17th, 2010 at 10:45 am
    MTU – or from the infamous Hot Shots movie – Wall Eye Vision

    ************************
    LOL I love that movie. :)

  98. Thomas Robust March 17th, 2010 at 10:53 am

    Robinson Cano has already gotten some MVP votes in his career. So, it wouldn’t be the first time.

  99. beez March 17th, 2010 at 10:55 am

    am i the only one who thinks joba was awful as a starting pitcher last season? he had 1 or 2 great outings and 2 or 3 other solid outings. other than that he walked way to many batters and rarely got past the 5th inning. if the yankees see joba as a starter i dont see how sending him to the pen will help solve these problems. also, keeping joba in the pen means one less spot for mitre/gaudin. we will lose one of these guys and both have pitched better than joba last year. mitre coming off injury but looked better his last couple outings and looking good in spring. worst comes to worst, joba is in AAA and someone gets hurt or struggles mightily in our Pen. of park mitre and gaudin, i could see one of them struggling. plus when is the last time any team went a whole season with the same bullpen? in this case we can simply call up joba. also, if hughes struggles, which i doubt because hes my boy and i have full confidence in him, joba will be stretched at AAA and ready to step in.

    now take the reverse. we keep joba in the pen, therefor we lose guadin/mitre. now say hughes struggles and we need a #5 starter. can joba handle it? doubt it if hes throwing 1 inning in the pen. at the least it will take him some games to lengthen out, so your options are aceves and mitre/gaudin. moving aceves to the rotation will weaken the bullpen, and mitre/gaudin could possibly struggle. having only one will hurt the depth of our overall pitching.

    i think if u look at these senarios it makes more sense this year and long term to keep joba in AAA rather than lose an arm and hurt our pitching depth.

  100. vb03 March 17th, 2010 at 10:56 am

    ditmars1929 March 17th, 2010 at 10:36 am

    vb03, that’s a great point regarding Vaz. Actually, I thought they should’ve hung onto him after his first year, even though he had some pretty awful moments. A mulligan, I think the term is. I’m glad to see him back.

    ———————–

    His decline in the 2nd half of 2004 was due to a shoulder injury he later disclosed, after being traded. Cashman didn’t want to deal him in the first place. The dude is the anti-Pavano, an innings-eating workhorse that can be relied on for 200 IP year after year after year. That kind of starter costs tens of millions in the FA market, and I wager he’ll have a better season than Boston’s Lackey – and for a lot less injury risk.

  101. MTU March 17th, 2010 at 10:56 am

    Robbie Cano will be cast in a new role this year.

    He stars in “The Ninja Assassin”.

    And has a supporting role in “the Natural”. :)

  102. Rick March 17th, 2010 at 10:57 am

    Once again it proves what adding an effective pitch to a pitcher’s arsenal can do.
    Phil Hughes is gaining more confidence with each outing as his added changeup improves.

  103. Boston Dave XXVII March 17th, 2010 at 10:57 am

    If the Nats released Dukes, it had to have been for disciplinary reasons.

    He was making less than 500k and is only 25.

    If he could get his head on straight, he’s got some potential.

    That said, the Yankees don’t need any bad seeds right now. If he was willing to go to the minors, I guess you could consider taking a flier. But I don’t see that happening at all.

  104. five iron from fenway March 17th, 2010 at 10:57 am

    Minor league spring training games start tomorrow.
    The Yankees have some really nice position players working their ways up through the system. Guys like David Adams, Corban Joseph, Abe Almonte may render Gardner, Russo and Pena moot in a couple years.
    I know the Yankee system is not ranked near the top, but it is a very intriguing mix of high end Jesus, returning from injury Brackman, Betances etc., and lower level draft and IFA talent.
    It never all goes right, but a solid advancement from a few of these guys and the system will once again be middle of the pack or higher.
    Graduating guys like Joba, Hughes, Robertson, Gardner and trading guys like Tabata, Vizcaino and every lefty in the organization will hurt in the short term. But, there is no doubt that Cash and Co value the farm as a player development tool for their own club and for trade bait.

    One question – How will (or has) the Towers signing help the Yankees? When, where and how will we see his influence? Thanks.

  105. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 17th, 2010 at 10:59 am

    AJ on WFAN…

  106. miggs - GTLU Reigning Champion March 17th, 2010 at 10:59 am

    “Robinson Cano has already gotten some MVP votes in his career. So, it wouldn’t be the first time.”

    I didn’t know that. Was it his 2nd year when he hit .340?

  107. Patrick from CT March 17th, 2010 at 11:00 am

    I’ve been a Joba in the rotation guy all along because he has been vary good at times. I don’t think it is time to give up on him as a starter even if he looses to Phil this ST. So long as he can get another shot at starting, then the pen is better than AAA. Like I said earlier, Joba should be a starter or closer long term; he’s been too good in the past to just be Mo’s setup guy of the next 3 years. I’m assuming Mo will pitch another 2 years after this of corse. I don’t view an 8th inning guy more valuable than a #5 starter…

  108. Jack March 17th, 2010 at 11:01 am

    When are we getting Joe Mauer? Its just a matter of time. No way he signs with Minnesota. They do not have ANY money. Their owner was very poor, Pohlad I think his name was. The Only teams that can spend the bucks are NY and Boston, and Boston is a small market team remember. They don’t spend money either….

  109. Erica - always OPPC March 17th, 2010 at 11:03 am

    miggs – GTLU Reigning Champion
    March 17th, 2010 at 10:51 am
    Who is running GTLU this year?

    Is Erica still ruling with an iron fist or has someone else taken over?

    *************

    I had to give it up to Doreen ( :-) for Doreen but :cry: for me)

    My company was quite less than amused by the time I spent on this blog in October and has been cracking down on internet usage ever since

  110. Bronx Jeers March 17th, 2010 at 11:03 am

    Way off topic here but….. I don’t know how people eat on the subway.

    Could one find a dirtier place to have a meal?

    It kind of grosses me out just seeing somebody do it.

  111. Erin March 17th, 2010 at 11:03 am

    MTU
    March 17th, 2010 at 10:56 am
    Robbie Cano will be cast in a new role this year.

    He stars in “The Ninja Assassin”.

    And has a supporting role in “the Natural”.

    *************************
    MTU, this is my favorite post today :)

  112. five iron from fenway March 17th, 2010 at 11:04 am

    Pat in CT – I agree 100%

    Erin – my wife can’t stand two things about me:
    1) How I watch the Yankees on tv and chat on the computer simultaneously
    2) My preference for stupid yet hilariously funny movies: Spaceballs, Naked Gun, Hot Shots etc.

  113. Erin March 17th, 2010 at 11:05 am

    MTU
    March 17th, 2010 at 10:56 am
    Robbie Cano will be cast in a new role this year.

    He stars in “The Ninja Assassin”.

    And has a supporting role in “the Natural”.

    ***********************
    MTU, this is my favorite post today :)

  114. MTU March 17th, 2010 at 11:05 am

    Erin-

    “MTU, this is my favorite post today”

    Just tring to make you happy.

    You deserve it ! :)

  115. Erin March 17th, 2010 at 11:06 am

    No idea why that posted twice-just ignore the 11:05 post. Stupid computer. lol

  116. Erin March 17th, 2010 at 11:08 am

    five iron from fenway
    March 17th, 2010 at 11:04 am
    Pat in CT – I agree 100%

    Erin – my wife can’t stand two things about me:
    1) How I watch the Yankees on tv and chat on the computer simultaneously
    2) My preference for stupid yet hilariously funny movies: Spaceballs, Naked Gun, Hot Shots etc.

    *******************************
    LOL You’ve got to love those movies. I think Hot Shots is my favorite out of the “stupid comedies”. Mafia is great too.

  117. Erin March 17th, 2010 at 11:08 am

    MTU
    March 17th, 2010 at 11:05 am
    Erin-

    “MTU, this is my favorite post today”

    Just tring to make you happy.

    You deserve it !

    **********************
    Awwwww…thanks MTU!

  118. MTU March 17th, 2010 at 11:08 am

    Five-

    “My preference for stupid yet hilariously funny movies: Spaceballs, Naked Gun, Hot Shots etc.”

    I grew up in the “Golden Age” for the above.

    The stooges, L and H, A and C, and Jerry Lewis.
    :)

  119. miggs - GTLU Reigning Champion March 17th, 2010 at 11:10 am

    I’ll be saving all my GTLU bullets for the regular season… no spring training guesses for me.

    Erica, you had a great run. As an active participant in the game, I can tell you that you were both respected and feared.

    Doreen has some big shoes to fill.

  120. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 17th, 2010 at 11:11 am

    Naked Gun and Airplane – those are the best “stupid” movies. Fletch, too – but I’m not sure Fletch qualifies as stupid.

  121. five iron from fenway March 17th, 2010 at 11:12 am

    Betsy – thank you for the additions. The original Fletch was great.

  122. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 17th, 2010 at 11:12 am

    MTU, I’ve never seen the 3 Stooges. My father loves them, but I think I would hate them.

  123. Erin March 17th, 2010 at 11:13 am

    Betsy -Romine wasn’t built in a day
    March 17th, 2010 at 11:12 am
    MTU, I’ve never seen the 3 Stooges. My father loves them, but I think I would hate them.

    ***********************
    Betsy, I have never met a woman who likes the Three Stooges. I think it’s a guy thing. lol

  124. Patrick from CT March 17th, 2010 at 11:15 am

    Joba was doing just fine as the #4 starter last year until the inning limit kicked in. Looking back they probably should have just shut him down for 2-3 weeks and brought him back as a reliever. I think they need to keep things simple for Joba or he thinks too much.

  125. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 17th, 2010 at 11:15 am

    Five Iron, you’re welcome! I never saw Fletch 2, and I’m glad. One thing I hate about movies is when they spend 2 hours getting a couple together and then, in the next movie, they’ve broken up. Fletch and his girlfriend in the first movie were great…. I thought they had a cool future together. I never saw the sequel, but I don’t think she was in it. They’ve tried to remake this movie, but everything keeps falling through. Entertainment Weekly had an article about how it’s just been one problem after another trying to remake it. I guess it’s just as well as no one could Fleth as well as Chevy Chase.

  126. randy l. March 17th, 2010 at 11:15 am

    “Thousand was just a number I pulled out of my butt. There have actually been studies done that if you want to become great at something you have to do it 10,000 times or spend 10,000 hours working on it or something like that.”

    patrick-

    that makes more sense.just keeping you on your toes :)

    here’s a formula i like for learning something.

    100 times a day x 365 days = 36,500 repetitions.

    now , a pitcher can’t do that many, but someone swinging a bat or a golf club can.

    i once ran into one of the flying wallendas at a sports bar in sarasota ( sarasota was the winter headquarters of the ringling and barnum and bailey circus).

    he told me that the secret of the circus is taking a regular person and having them learn one thing in their life. it might be knife throwing, or tight rope walking, a motor cycle going around in a cage or being a clown juggling, but if someone does one simple thing for hundreds of thousands and even millions of repetitions that ordinary person will become extraordinary to the average person.

    i took that conversation to heart and whenever i wanted to learn something a calendar went up on the wall and i’d mark the reps per day i’d do . at the end of a year, you’d be surprised how many reps in something that you can do.

    like is said 100 a day equals 36,500 times a year. that’ll help teach you almost anything.

    i probably went twenty years in a row throwing a hundred balls a day. that would be 730,000 throws. if i wouldn’t have done that i would have never got my foot in the door to be a bullpen catcher. there were times when i would throw 300 -400 BP pitches in pre season workouts for pro players and they’d be asking me to stop because their arms would hurt just watching.

    it was a circus trick. just do something a zillion times and you become amazing.

    for your golf swig, put up a big calendar on a wall and write down every day the number of swings you do and what you were working on. into a net, air swings, range swings etc.

    after a year, you’ll be a different golfer.

  127. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 17th, 2010 at 11:16 am

    Erin, I normally like guy humor, but I don’t see what’s so funny about 3 weird looking dudes poking each other in the eyes, lol.

  128. Erin March 17th, 2010 at 11:16 am

    New Post: Chamberlain trying to get back on track

  129. Chad Jennings March 17th, 2010 at 11:16 am

    New post. Sorry for the lineup mistake.

  130. beez March 17th, 2010 at 11:17 am

    to add to this debate, Joba out of the pen during 09 was not as effective as joba out of the pen in 07. if hes going to be in the pen and pitch like he did the end of last year then he will lose the set up role because i think we have better guys in the pen right now that can get the job done.

  131. stuckey March 17th, 2010 at 11:23 am

    Betsy, you quite clearly said you’ve yet to hear anyone offer a “reasonable” explanation as to why the guy who doesn’t get 5th starter position stays in the ML bullpen. That means all the explanations you have heard (and you’ve heard many) are by your definition “unreasonable”.

    Let’s not spend too much time over the semantics here. You’re using bold, dismissiave language to describe the arguments of those you don’t agree with too… just less directly.

    Now, the problem here is simply a definition of terms. It’s apparent the reason you haven’t heard a “reasonable” explanation is because you’re dead-set on, and refuse to reconsider your underlying premise, which is more time in the ML bullpen is a “set-back” in their development.

    THAT’s what actually being debated here.

    You make claims like Hughes as a set-up man won’t use his curve. This is a complete erroneous statement. Last year AS a set-up man he used his fastball/curve in approximately the same ratio has he did as a starter. That’s a fairly well established fact, and presented with that information SHOULD be enough to cause you to reconsider your position, but when presented with facts to counter your opinions, you then fall back to the “we have to agree to disagree” line of thinking and begin the meta-posts about yourself, which no one on this forum does as frequently as you do.

    The inning restriction argument has also been fairly well debunked already. He’s thrown 140 professional innings in his career. He likely won’t every face an innings limit as a starter to any significant degree.

    So here are the facts:

    - He will and can throw his secondary pitches as a reliever. That is entirely up to him and the Yankees.

    - His worst-case scenario innings limit would perhaps be 170 as a starter.

    So with that in mind, explain why spending a year gaining experience in high leverage MAJOR league innings (that also happen to COUNT in the Yankees quest to repeat) is inferior to spending pitching NO leverage minor league innings?

  132. sandy g March 17th, 2010 at 1:21 pm

    joba is a head case.everytime he gets hit hard he says he pitched ok but had no luck.package chamberlain,melancon,and gaudin to kansas city for david dejesus and mike aviles

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