Spring Training Game 14: Yankees at Phillies
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 17, 2010 
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YANKEES
Brett Gardner CF
Nick Johnson DH
Mark Teixeira 1B
Alex Rodriguez 3B
Marcus Thames LF
Randy Winn RF
Francisco Cervelli C
Ramiro Pena SS
Kevin Russo 2B
LHP Andy Pettitte
PHILLIES
Jimmy Rollins SS
Shane Victorino CF
Jayson Werth RF
Ryan Howard 1B
Ben Francisco LF
Cody Ransom 3B
Juan Castro 2B
Carlos Ruiz C
Joe Blanton P
RHP Joe Blanton
TIME/TV: 1:05 p.m., not carried by any of the usual New York stations, but Bryan Hoch tells me that it is available through mlb.tv.
WEATHER: The sky looked bad when we got here, but the dark clouds have gone. No longer looks like rain will be an issue. Breeze blowing right to left.
UMPIRES: HP Marty Foster, 1B Jerry Crawford, 2B Mark Carlson, 3B Andy Fletcher
ON THE LINE: Phil Hughes looked good last night, now it’s Joba Chamberlain’s turn. Joe Girardi said that a bad outing wouldn’t eliminate Chamberlain from the fifth-starter competition, but it certainly seems that he needs a good one to remain a viable candidate… Andy Pettitte and Damaso Marte are each pitching in a game for the first time this spring… Marcus Thames, Randy Winn and Brett Gardner are in the lineup. Jamie Hoffmann is scheduled to play off the bench. I’m sure the Yankees would like to see one of those four get his average above .200.
UPDATE, 1:15 p.m.: Gardner led off with a clean single to right, then got his first stolen base of the spring.
UPDATE, 1:49 p.m.: Andy Pettitte is giving up some hits and some runs — four hits and two runs in the first two innings — but he doesn’t seem especially wild or especially bad for his first time facing hitters. Nothing hit too hard off him. It’s 2-0 Phillies heading into the bottom of the third.
UPDATE, 2:02 p.m.: Two-out single by Randy Winn, followed by an RBI double from Francisco Cervelli. Winn can still move a little bit. Nice job scoring from first on that base hit. It’s now 2-1 Phillies with Pena at the plate.
UPDATE, 2:15 p.m.: Two-hit day for Gardner, who just tripled to center field. Shane Victorino tried to make a diving catch but missed, and Gardner jogged into third. For a while there, it looked like he had a shot at an inside-the-park home run, but he was given the stop sign. He scored on a sac fly by Nick Johnson. We’re tied, 2-2.
UPDATE, 2:22 p.m.: Pettitte’s line: 4 IP, 5 H, 2 R 2 H, 1 BB, 4 K. He threw 55 pitches, 36 for strikes. I think you’ll take that for a first time facing batters. He was solid, and that’s pretty much what you expect a veteran pitcher to be with two and a half weeks to go in spring training. Damaso Marte now pitching.
UPDATE, 2:25 p.m.: Marte’s spring debut, not as good as Pettitte’s. Three-run home run by Werth and Marte still hasn’t gotten an out.
UPDATE, 2:27 p.m.: Now it’s worse. Marte was just drilled in the back by a Ryan Howard line drive. He’s coming out of the game. Amaury Sanit now pitching.
UPDATE, 2:55 p.m.: With two outs, a flare double into no-mans land and an RBI single have led to a run off Chamberlain. Cervelli threw out a runner stealing second to end the inning. Neither hit was hard hit, but the double got just past Russo, who tried to make a diving play going back into right field. The RBI was a routine single to right. It’s now 6-2.
UPDATE, 2:57 p.m.: Bronson Sardinha’s brother Dane is now catching for the Phillies. Bronson was once a big prospect in the Yankees system, and played briefly in the big leagues a few years ago.
UPDATE, 3:05 p.m.: The Yankees have made all of their defensive changes except at catcher. Cervelli is still in there catching Chamberlain.
In case you missed it in the previous thread:
———————————-
Rishi
March 17th, 2010 at 12:58 pm
m
March 17th, 2010 at 12:50 pm
“Relationships take work. The one between A.J. Burnett and Jorge Posada, that’s going to take some serious work. Can it be saved? Is it worth saving? ”
Teaser for Buster’s Insider article today. I can only assume that Olney either witnessed or was told about the meetings of the minds on the mounds yesterday.
========================================
Read the article – basically he said it doesn’t matter if they don’t get along…let Cervelli catch Burnett they way Molina did last year. It’s good to let them try to work it out in Spring Training, but not worth the potential impact to real games.
I hope joba steps up and throws a quality few innings…I think he has not showed what he is capable of as of yet.
GreenBeret7
March 17th, 2010 at 12:58 pm
Morning, Erica. Hope you’re still in the book juggling business…..ooops…CPA business.
*****************
Yes- I am.
My mood is much improved over last week- which is a very good thing
However, I have the last stages of a sinus infection and cannot stop blowing my nose
I wonder if Maura Tierney (ER) really died?
It says it on her Wikipedia, but nowhere else.
Rish, thanks – Buster is still a moron. He has it in his head that they don’t get along and he refuses to believe otherwise. He also apparently forgets that AJ’s best pitching came in a two month stretch where he threw to Jorge. Buster just wants to give up on AJ/Jorge? That’s asinine.
CR9
March 17th, 2010 at 1:02 pm
I wonder if Maura Tierney (ER) really died?
It says it on her Wikipedia, but nowhere else.
==============
I’ve read that her father died, not she herself
I can’t believe that BOTH Logan and Ring have actually pitched well. Not too many questions left about the pen. It seems that Rivera, Marte, Park and Robertson are definite ‘Ins’. That leaves three spots.
Anyone can change a Wikipedia page-
That would be terrible
CR9
March 17th, 2010 at 1:02 pm
I wonder if Maura Tierney (ER) really died?
It says it on her Wikipedia, but nowhere else.
*******************
I haven’t seen that pop up anywhere either.
Good luck to Joba today. Hopefully a good outing from him
Rishi
March 17th, 2010 at 1:04 pm
I’ve read that her father died, not she herself
***********************
That’s too bad if true.
Ugh. Philly feed.
Marty Foster again! LOL Too funny!
Hey it’s Cody Ransom at 3B!
Anyone have access to the feed in ny?
Maybe Buster should write an article about how an umpire/player relationship takes a lot of serious work and how Foster should never work a Yankee game because of Jeter (let the backup ump work it).
m
where are you watching this.
directv?
mlb.tv.
But I’m getting nothing ATM. And the scoreboard is showing “Warmup”. ????
SJ44
March 17th, 2010 at 1:04 pm
Amen SJ!!! Posada & AJ are fine.
GB
I too like Laird and now that you mention it there are lots of similarities to Cano there. I am not impressed with Pena, but I guess as a glove only he is ok. I always thought 3B that were mobile made great RF! They have the arm. They have the mindset to attack the ball albeit on the ground or in the air. I am sure Laird would do fine in RF. Leftfield may cause him some issues due to slices on line drives & flies and more ground to cover.
i get the game down in south jersey channel CSN philly
UPDATE, 1:15 p.m.: Gardner led off with a clean single to right, then got his first stolen base of the spring.
Gameday will probably update at the half inning
Yeah I think it’s time for Foster and The Yanks to cut the co-dependent act and call in the lawyers.
This relationship has definitely run its course.
Betsy -Romine wasn’t built in a day
March 17th, 2010 at 1:11 pm
Maybe Buster should write an article about how an umpire/player relationship takes a lot of serious work and how Foster should never work a Yankee game because of Jeter (let the backup ump work it).
******************************
LOL Nice one, Betsy!
Nick Johnson struck out swinging on a change up. Tex grounds out to 2nd. A-Rod struck out on a curve. 0-0
I’m trying to watch on mlb.com, but it keeps conking out. I re-start and get a few seconds of broadcast, then it conks out again.
I was looking at info on the new show, Parenthood.
Apparenlty, Tierney was supposed to play the role of Lauren Gra-ham, but was diagnosed with breast cancer.
I went to her Wiki and it said she died, but then looking at the history, it has been undone.
Gameday.
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday.....b_phimlb_1
What happened? Gardner was on 2nd, and now it’s bottom of the first.
Feed’s just not cooperating.
OMG, I could not get 6 posts like the one above through the filter.
I thought it was breast, among other words, then realized that it was Gra-ham that ends in a-ham….
And Pete probably disallowed words that end in a-ham.
What a sickie!
Thanks, Erin!
Thanks, Carl.
What if we ever get a player with the name Gra-ham or A-b-r-a-ham?
Leadoff double for Rollins, comebacker to Pettitte by Victorino for an out. Rollins holds at second. One out.
m
March 17th, 2010 at 1:18 pm
Gameday.
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday…..b_phimlb_1
What happened? Gardner was on 2nd, and now it’s bottom of the first.
Feed’s just not cooperating.
======================================
For some spring training games they update on the half inning (probably don’t have a full team of gameday updaters on staff at that point – I know they hire mostly students locally during the season for those jobs). So they loaded in all the action at the same time
And this is why I’ve cancelled my mlb.tv subscription. It’s spotty at best. It’s c-rap.
Rollins steals third. Werth at the plate.
ray (sox fan)
March 17th, 2010 at 1:07 pm
Good afternoon GB.
Things are going pretty well up here. We have had some decent weather and most of the snow is gone.
I haven’t been on here much, but have been observing. It will be most interesting how the Yankees deal with the fifth starter position with Joba, Hughes, etc.
The Sox have some similar decisions to make. Certainly Lester, Lackey, and Beckett will be in the rotation but then how do things settle with Dice-K, Wakefield, and Bucholtz?
————————————————————
Yeah, Ray…the difference in the pitching staffs is pretty even and may come down to the 5th starters. I think NYY should have the offensive edge, speed should be pretty even and defense is close with Boston getting the outfield edge.
m
thanks for the info.
Andy may (or may not) have the same issue as AJ did last night – being too strong. Andy also had to pitch in a simulated game facing no hitters.
rollins hit a leadoff double down the 3B line. Then stole 3rd with 1 out.
I have the Phillie audio feed off the MLB app.
Still no sign of WCBS this Spring. And it’s not like Sterling doesn’t need to get some work in.
Maybe he’s saving his bullets?
Pettitte strikes out Werth. 2 outs, Howard coming up.
what is it about Gardner that makes the Yankees so high on him? He hasn’t had so much as a two week hot streak since he’s been around.
–
Wanted to address this statement, since it was baseless.
May 2009: .327 .417 .538 .955
May 13 to June 2 .356 .453 .600 1.053
June 12 to June 26: .438 .486 .656 1.142
Sept 11 to Sept 23: .409 .458 .500 .958
Gardner, Brett Gardner!
Randy – Your point about Kevin Towers and Cashman, Kevin Towers specifically stated he did not want to come into a front office and threaten anyones job. He is a special assignment scout and will spend most of his time around the country looking for talent and scouting at the major and amatuer level.
His hunting area is far different from Cashmans.
after falling behind jimmy 2-0, he rips a hard double over the head of A-Rod.
Pettitte shows off his ups, snagging a come backer. After Jimmy steals third, he strikes out Werth.
Howard singles up the middle off of Penas glove.
Ben Fransisco strikes out. 1-0 Philly.
Bloop single off Pena’s glove, 1-0 Phillies. Got jammed and fought off the pitch.
Did Ryan just beat the shift?
anyway it’s 1-0 Phils
Pettitte strikes out Francisco to end the inning.
1-0 Phils after 1.
‘UMPIRES: HP Marty Foster’
Is he like stalking us or something?
RayVT
March 17th, 2010 at 1:14 pm
SJ44
March 17th, 2010 at 1:04 pm
Amen SJ!!! Posada & AJ are fine.
GB
I too like Laird and now that you mention it there are lots of similarities to Cano there. I am not impressed with Pena, but I guess as a glove only he is ok. I always thought 3B that were mobile made great RF! They have the arm. They have the mindset to attack the ball albeit on the ground or in the air. I am sure Laird would do fine in RF. Leftfield may cause him some issues due to slices on line drives & flies and more ground to cover.
————————————————————
Not sure if you’ve seen Romine run, but, for a catcher, he’s got speed…enough to steal 15-20 a year. The bat and athleticism is there to play left, right or either infield corner, as well as catch. They have a lot of good young hitters that would best help themselves and their team by learning other spots. That was always a big plus for the old Yankee teams….versatility.
“Yeah, Ray…the difference in the pitching staffs is pretty even and may come down to the 5th starters. I think NYY should have the offensive edge, speed should be pretty even and defense is close with Boston getting the outfield edge.”
———————————————————-
GB, I really agree with your analysis. I don’t think we will know who has the edge in pitching until we are into the season, and of course we don’t know what injuries may pop up on either team.
I would definitely have to give the Yankees the edge with the offense. My main concern with the Sox is whether their offense can manufacture the runs they usually do. Manny is long gone, Ortiz definitely seems on the downward trend, Bay is with the Mets, etc.
Washington has outright released Vilone and Elijah Dukes, but, that guy is real trouble.
Throwback to 2006: Anyone remember this gem of an article?
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn.....ple/061009
Ransom knocks the ball down, but Cervelli on base with a single.
CR9
I believe she had cancer. It would be awful if she did die. But I think it would have been picked up by legitimate news orgs.
Ray, this race is goint to be a real barn burner with Tampa in there, too. Baltimore, if they ever get any pitching, they are going to be trouble. Those guys can thump a baseball.
m
March 17th, 2010 at 1:30 pm
Ransom knocks the ball down, but Cervelli on base with a single.
**********************
Way to go, Gazoo!!
SI_JonHeyman #rangers manager ron washington tested positive for cocaine last year. on si.com: http://tinyurl.com/ykb68zb
7 minutes ago via web
1st & 3rd no outs for the Phillies.
GreenBeret7
March 17th, 2010 at 1:28 pm
Yeah Rommine looks great & versatile! He reminds me a bit of Johnny Blanchard! You are so right about the versatility thing. With Montero, Rommine & Posada all being in NY late this year and possibly all of next year things could get interesting. Keeping a team fresh with a core of 10 or more starters dividing time for the 8 positions helps tremendously.
I like what Dukes can do. Not sure if the label is worse than the offense. Manny Acta was guilty too in my book. I’d like to see the Yanks take a flier on him & put him in AA with a real chance to bring him up to MLB if he shows maturity.
Rishi,
That’s terrible. But he did have the look of a chronic.
March 17th, 2010 at 1:34 pm
“What’s worse is, folks who know nothing about catching, nor are interested in learning, used the supposed “rift” to rip a guy who has been an all-time great Yankee.”
you tell em sj44 .
i try to be open minded with fans who haven’t ever touched a baseball except to look at it because they may they may have some fresh outsider input from their expertise in another field or because there’s nothing wrong with just being a fan.
what’s wrong is that fan bashing a borderline hall of famer and really a co captain of the yankees and being really wrong with that analysis.
the yankees of the past 12-13 years would not be the same team without posada. they would not have won last year without him.
posada is an integral member of this yankee era.
he’ll go down as one of the all time great yankees.
Sac fly to CF. 2-0 Phillies.
My net is too slow to give updates
Thanks for everyone else that is though 
Josh Hamilton is still a Ranger..not smart Ron. Not smart at all.
BryanHoch Looks like a good crowd on hand here today in Clearwater. Lots of green, especially out on the outfield berm. 12 seconds ago
YankeesWFAN Girardi mentioned last week how well ARod has been moving now 1 yr removed from hip surgery. Can see it on defense today. about 1 minute ago
RayVT
March 17th, 2010 at 1:36 pm
GreenBeret7
March 17th, 2010 at 1:28 pm
Yeah Rommine looks great & versatile! He reminds me a bit of Johnny Blanchard! You are so right about the versatility thing. With Montero, Rommine & Posada all being in NY late this year and possibly all of next year things could get interesting. Keeping a team fresh with a core of 10 or more starters dividing time for the 8 positions helps tremendously.
I like what Dukes can do. Not sure if the label is worse than the offense. Manny Acta was guilty too in my book. I’d like to see the Yanks take a flier on him & put him in AA with a real chance to bring him up to MLB if he shows maturity
————————————————————
Dukes has a ton of talent, but, he’s too much like Milton Bradley. You don’t ever know when he feels like playing. What a waste of talent. REmember KC’s catcher from about 20 years ago? John Wathen? That’s the sort of speed and base running smarts that Romine has. Not sure Romine would ever steal 30+ bases a year as a catcher, but, he can hit and he can run. Haven’t seen him catch very much this year, but, he’s always had issues with passed balls and catcher’s interference calls.
I had no idea mangers get drug tested. Why?
Washington seems a little old to be doing cocaine. Then again, he is from New Orleans.
Like they say. You can take the guy out of N’awlins but…..
Randy,
What was especially funny was that AJ didn’t pitch appreciably better with Molina back there. In fact, there were some games, like Game 5 of the WS, where he was positively awful.
Yet, the Posada critics said nothing.
AJ is a tough guy to catch. Look at his career. Loads of walks and WP’s and his stuff is tough to harness. He’s gone through a LOT of catchers.
There are some guys like that out there.
He’s not a bad guy though and I thought he got painted as one with the stuff last year.
Also, Molina’s defensive abilities declined last year. He still had a great arm but, he didn’t move around back there as well as he used to.
Its probably why he could only garner a minor league deal with Toronto and pushed himself to lose 15 pounds in the off-season.
All in all, I felt people took unnecessary and uninformed shots at Posada.
He didn’t play for most of 2008 and the team didn’t make the post-season. He comes back and they win the World Series.
I don’t see that as the coincidence his detractors seem to think it is.
Did Werth dye his beard orange?
GB…..Happy St. Paddy’s Day…..A sense of relief…..
randy,
Good post earlier about learning new skills. I could definitely use all the tips I can get on improving my golf swing
I do what you say and repeat my swing a lot, the only problem is I am usually repeating the wrong things. Practice is useless unless you are doing things the correct way.
“Ransom knocks the ball down, but Cervelli on base with a single.”
Seeing Ransom made me think about his performance while filling in for A-Rod in ’09. For the season he had 86 PA (most came during April) and hit .190/.256/.329/.585. If A-Rod had missed the entire season and Ransom was in the lineup for 600PA, this rate of performance would have resulted in about -4 WAR (A-Rod posted a 4.4 WAR in 535PA). I realize the Yankees would have gotten a replacement of some kind, but this really makes you think about the value of the core players and the risk associated with losing one of them.
Dukes is a nightmare. One of my best friends works for the Rays. The Dukes stories he had weren’t pretty.
I wouldn’t touch him with a 10 foot pole.
GreenBeret7
March 17th, 2010 at 1:43 pm
Having a catcher like that is a plus! Yes I remember John Wathan of late 70′s & early 80′s. He was good and fast! That’s good to hear about Rommine!
Keep It -
my personal fav on that list:
5. Jeter doesn’t provide the leadership needed.
I wouldn’t touch him with a 10 foot pole.
————————————-
Probably because he’d attempt to murder you with it.
Pat M.
March 17th, 2010 at 1:45 pm
GB…..Happy St. Paddy’s Day…..A sense of relief…..
————————————————————
Afternoon, Pat. We’re missing the beer bash on River street. It’ll last until about 2 AM. I just got in early this morning from Tampa. I forgot to take the computer, but, those tests and stuff just wore me out. Two days of that stuff. I could grab to wires in the house provide enough nuclear power to the house for the next 2 years. Rough time, but, good news from the tests.
Dukes is a nut but stories about him are a non-stop source of laughter. Didn’t he text a picture of a gun to his ex-GF? Awesome.
I think Pettitte should be sent down to AAA to get himself back on track.
Shame Spencer –
haha yeah when I was in school my roommate showed that to me back in 2006. He’s a Mets fan so he was loving it. I could only read it with shock that anyone not attaching JK or LOL or HAHAHAHAHAH along with the article could actually pen that.
Pettitte’s a little wild in the middle of the plate, but, still not bad for his first game. Getting his strikeouts, though.
I disagree Ken. I think he should be sent to ST to “humble” him.
Who does he think he is, waiting until March 17 to decide to pitch in a ST game.
A trip to AAA will humble him very quickly!
mo
robertson
marte
park
ace
have guaranteed spots in the pen
that leaves 2 open spots with hughes or joba probably being the 6th arm wich leaves an open spot
probably gaudin
cc
burnett
pettitte
vaz
joba
hughes
mo
robertson
marte
park
ace
gaudin
although it seems like Caple wrote the article just for sheer shock value. So it worked. Good for him.
“I wouldn’t touch him with a 10 foot pole.
————————————-
Probably because he’d attempt to murder you with it.”
That or threaten him w/ a pregnancy test.
I agree SJ. Maybe we can resign Ponson to take his spot in the rotation. The Yanks are good enough that they really don’t need to worry about that spot in the rotation.
Not many good swings off of Blanton. Gardner probably has had the best so far.
I dare say that “trade Jeter” article was a parody of all the stupid “trade A-Rod” articles from around that time.
I hope Pettitte isin’t shaking off his catcher… he may need to be sent to AAA to be humbled
SJ & GB
I truly understand the Dukes issue, I mean even the Nats dropped him when he had a minor league option still. He is from the Homestead area of FL which is pretty rough. He saw himself as a big fish in a small pond at Tampa & with the Nats. He was the Nats starting RF. He has been humbled a bit now by the release and may be ready to prove others wrong.
Where he comes from doesn’t usually coincide with great discipline skills. You don’t take a player of that background and force feed them with macho control. I believe he could be a difference maker on the field.
BryanHoch Katie sends along photos of Bernie Williams performing at Woodjock 2010: http://is.gd/aMb91
5 minutes ago via TwitterBar
Ponson or Igawa Ken. At least they want to pitch in ST.
Every game, every pitch matters!
Nice rip to the gap by Cervelli and Winn scores from first. he can still run.
Dukes is talented but the Yankees currently have a pretty much knucklehead free clubhouse and I think its better to keep it that way. A guy with that much talent has chronically underachieved for a reason.
He’s not a difference maker on the field Ray. Never has been.
He’s not worth the trouble.
The Yankees have OF’s coming through the system in A Ball that have talent and work ethic. You don’t need Dukes in the organization.
Yeah he starts off by making logical points but by the end it seems he makes it evident that he’s writing it as parody or just for the shock of it.
“Lets another team have him. It’s only fair.”
man cervelli keeps suprising with the bat
2nd hit of the game ????
Ron Washington tested positive for blow.
RayVT
March 17th, 2010 at 1:57 pm
SJ & GB
I truly understand the Dukes issue, I mean even the Nats dropped him when he had a minor league option still. He is from the Homestead area of FL which is pretty rough. He saw himself as a big fish in a small pond at Tampa & with the Nats. He was the Nats starting RF. He has been humbled a bit now by the release and may be ready to prove others wrong.
Where he comes from doesn’t usually coincide with great discipline skills. You don’t take a player of that background and force feed them with macho control. I believe he could be a difference maker on the field.
————————————————————
Tampa really missed on the makeup of two of the three big ptential mashers in Young, Dukes and from time to time, Upton. All that talent and none of it has panned out, though, if Upton gets his head out of his behind could still make it. A big difference in his makeup and brother Justin’s.
I am not sure Cervelli can call a good game!! Maybe we need Andy to just pitch to Posada! LOL!
DOHHHH!
How could I forget about Kei Igawa.
Hopefully Towers will get Cashman’s head screwed back on straight and realize what a gem he has there.
What’s the deal with players that are released? They get paid their remaining contract, right? And then the team that picks the player only has to pay pro-rated league minimum?
Dukes has also had a rough upbringing. I remember when he played his first game against the Yankees Kay kept bringing up the fact that his dad was in jail for murder. Again and again.
I remember Dukes mashing one over the fence that game as well.
theres no humbling in baseball
SJ44
March 17th, 2010 at 2:01 pm
I defer to you on this one!
GB
After spending over a year in Tampa area recently, I truly believe they got the wrong Upton. LOL! They sure did miss out there! Young, Dukes & Upton!
“The Yankees have OF’s coming through the system in A Ball that have talent and work ethic. You don’t need Dukes in the organization.”
SJ,
Curious how you would describe the Yankees’ OF situation for 2010 and the near future. Do you think they will look to make a large free agent signing (e.g. Crawford/Werth)? Or maybe they expect some of the young, low-level talent to come through quickly enough that they can avoid that?
attta boy Pettitte
Solid 4 innings for Pettitte’s first game. a little surprised he went 4, though. Good to see.
bru
March 17th, 2010 at 2:06 pm
theres no humbling in baseball
Bumbling & humbling go hand in hand! There is loads of it in baseball.
In reality, greatness can come of a large dose of it from time to time! Think Billy Martin!
I think, no I know, Carl Crawford is on their radar.
A lot depends on what happens this year.
If Gardner turns into a useful player, Swisher and Granderson improve on the weaknesses of their games, perhaps the Yankees stand pat. Especially if a someone in the system (DeLeon) makes a big leap this year.
More accurately, I think they make a big play for Crawford.
You put Crawford and Granderson in the OF and you have the best defensive LF and CF in baseball.
You have 2 solid citizens who work very, very hard at their craft.
They certainly will have the money to do the deal and I think Crawford wouldn’t mind playing in NY.
Just got to play it out and see what happens. A lot can change in a year.
Andy faced 18 batters thru 4 IP. But I’m sure he and the staff will be pleased with the outing. 4 K’s. Not bad. Not bad at all.
Regardless of attitude Dukes is worth taking a look at. He is a legit batter with relatively little platoon split and can take on lefties fine.
Had a really good season at age 24.
RayVT
March 17th, 2010 at 2:06 pm
SJ44
March 17th, 2010 at 2:01 pm
I defer to you on this one!
GB
After spending over a year in Tampa area recently, I truly believe they got the wrong Upton. LOL! They sure did miss out there! Young, Dukes & Upton!
————————————————————
Definately the wrong Upton. BJ Upton plays a great center field, though, and, he could be a 30-30 guy if he really put his heart into his job.
Dukes makes Barry Bonds looks like a choir boy.
Gardner with a 1 out triple.
Possibly could work: some good ole male tickle-bonding
between AJ and Po.
Attitude makes a big difference. The Yankees have made clubhouse character a focal point of their decisionmaking on players. Its not going to change for Dukes. Way too much baggage for the Yankees to take on.
I’m warming up to Johnson in the 2 hole, however I still think the speed issue will present itself several times in key situations this season…..
Crawford would be great
He would use that short porch in right like Damon did, so even when he loses some of his speed, he is still going to be a good player…
2-2 bottom 5. Nick Johnson with an SF to drive in Gardner.
Hoot! NJ ties it up.
“I do what you say and repeat my swing a lot, the only problem is I am usually repeating the wrong things. Practice is useless unless you are doing things the correct way.”
patrick-
36,500 is your friend-100 times a days 365 days.
don’t just keep track mentally.
put the calendar on the wall.
put the goal at the top of each month.
write down what you do every day
add it up at the end of the month.
it will work like magic.
almost 100 anythings can be done in under 5-10 minutes.
yes , it helps to work on the right things, but trevino aims his feet left and his swings his arms right in the opposite direction. look at jim furyk . in golf if you can repeat even the wrong things you can shoot a low score.
the problem is really bad golfers come up with new bad stuff on every swing.
that was what made orville moody send gb7 to southeast asia to check out the country clubs there
Gardner didn’t even look like he was running hard on that triple. Just flew around the bases.
In the regular season I bet he busts it and tries to turn that triple into an inside the parker.
Bad
Nick Johnson hits a sac fly, Gardner scores.
2-2 bottom 5. Marte coming in.
SJ44
March 17th, 2010 at 2:11 pm
I think, no I know, Carl Crawford is on their radar.
A lot depends on what happens this year.
If Gardner turns into a useful player, Swisher and Granderson improve on the weaknesses of their games, perhaps the Yankees stand pat. Especially if a someone in the system (DeLeon) makes a big leap this year.
More accurately, I think they make a big play for Crawford.
You put Crawford and Granderson in the OF and you have the best defensive LF and CF in baseball.
You have 2 solid citizens who work very, very hard at their craft.
They certainly will have the money to do the deal and I think Crawford wouldn’t mind playing in NY.
Just got to play it out and see what happens. A lot can change in a year.
————————————————————
I’d have to think that Texas would be the Yanks biggest rival for Crawford. I imagine that NYY goes after either him or Werth and try adding maybe Lee.
Where, or when, is Joba?
Marte in for the Yankees in the 5th. Infield hit for Rollins.
Joba is scheduled to pitch innings 6-9.
Werth just drills a 1 iron…..Marte ????
Marte looks like he’s making his spring training debut… which of course he is.
His stuff is flat and up.
Werth just crushed that pitch – hit it like it looked like a watermellon coming up to the plate.
BloggingBombers Damaso Marte making his spring debut. First 2 batters get hits. He’s in midseason form already. I guess he only pitches well in the playoffs about 1 minute ago
LOL
Base hit for Victorino and Werth just hit a 3 run bomb.
They should take marte out of the game. He just got wallped – walloped by a line drive off of howard’s bat
Very lucky he didn’t get seriously hurt
ouch!
Marte just got hit by a Ryan comebacker.
Marte got lucky there. That liner through the box had UGLY written all over it.
See this is why you don’t take Andy out of the game
Boo I hate Jason Werth!
Sanit into the game for Marte. They’ll give joba a clean inning to start.
He’s lucky he didn’t get killed. Pitching change.
marte tends to be worthless until late september anyway.
Howard hits ‘em back through the middle like two other Howards did…Frank and Ellie. Rockets with no chance to get out of the way.
GreenBeret7
March 17th, 2010 at 2:13 pm
Definately the wrong Upton. BJ Upton plays a great center field, though, and, he could be a 30-30 guy if he really put his heart into his job.
I totally agree BJ has tremendous talent. He hasn’t been the same since hurting his shoulder. I wonder if he stays in Tampa. I expect Tampa to try to trade him and somehow keep Crawford.
I hope it’s not time to panic about Marte now, because man, I’m sure people will.
Poor Marte.
Reading the descriptions of what happened, it just sounds painful.
Andrew
March 17th, 2010 at 2:28 pm
I hope it’s not time to panic about Marte now, because man, I’m sure people will.
*********************
LOL
Kind of hard to call someone “worthless” in his first outing of the year. A “tad” overboard on that description.
lol @ those hats
Ugh Marte not making a very good impression. Hope the WS last year wasn’t a fluke….
You can see why the Yankees like Sanit – he’s got decent action on his pitches.
He looks like he might be a useful middle relief guy.
Not many teams have their outfielders batting 7 thru 9. Winn\Gardner being so weak affects Swisher at #8. Swisher will probably never see a fastball as long as those two are behind him, meaning Swisher’s numbers will suffer big time. If a lefthander is in their, then you’ve lost one out of every three innnings with this group. The Crawford signing next year will prove to be a must as this season wears on. Also, you’ll be pencilling in either Romine or Montero in Right Field, probably as early as next year.
Hal Steinbrenner would not appreciate letters from Elijah Dukes’ ex-wife about him constantly falling behind with his child support payments which he has a strong history with. They’ve been in and out of court in St. Pete with the same problem over and over again.
That and weed got him axed by the Rays. Washington took a chance.
Tom J. March 17th, 2010 at 2:31 pm
Ugh Marte not making a very good impression. Hope the WS last year wasn’t a fluke….
It was his first game action since game 6 of the world series. Can the man get some innings under his belt first?
“marte tends to be worthless until late september anyway.”
As opposed to you, who is worthless 100% of the time!
Trade: Marti for TPK?
BloggingBombers Marte walked off the mound on his own power. Still, I’d guess he’ll miss at least a few days. 22 seconds ago
Wait, Swisher’s numbers will suffer because Winn/Gardner are hitting behind him. Who hit behind him last year? Melky?
Yeah I don’t see any difference
RayVT
March 17th, 2010 at 2:28 pm
GreenBeret7
March 17th, 2010 at 2:13 pm
Definately the wrong Upton. BJ Upton plays a great center field, though, and, he could be a 30-30 guy if he really put his heart into his job.
I totally agree BJ has tremendous talent. He hasn’t been the same since hurting his shoulder. I wonder if he stays in Tampa. I expect Tampa to try to trade him and somehow keep Crawford.
————————————————————
I think Crawford hits Free agency no matter what. Uptopn, perhaps with tighter reins and guys like Jeter, Sabathia, Posada and the others on the NYY team might get the best out of him, but, he’d be a steep price in talent in a trade, unless he has another year like last year. Imagine him and Granderson in left and center field, though. Just on the defensive side.
Ugh Marte not making a very good impression. Hope the WS last year wasn’t a fluke….
–
I hope you’re not expecting Marte to strike out 75% of the batters he faces while giving up no hits or walks.
Marte has been excellent every year of his career outside of his half a season in NY and 13 innings in 2009. Which coincides with injury.
he should be fine. Lefties hit .197 off him in his career with a 33% strike out rate.
If Howard was able to hit a ball from Marte that hard, he must have had nothing. I hope he’s OK.
Even in his half-season in NY, he got all fouled up because he pitched like 3 innings that fateful night in Texas (I think Marlon Byrd hit a walk-off Grand Slam or something crazy), which also coincidentally was the series (and maybe the same game?) that featured the start of the neverending Joba Chamberlain Soap Opera.
Jobas turn
Marte looked like you’d expect him to facing the phillies in his spring debut. He just looked like a pitcher facing hitters who were playing the game faster than he was.
His stuff was flat and up and they hammered it. No big deal outside of the injury.
When Marte has been bad in the regular season it’s been because he has very poor control/command. He always has a lot of movement on the ball with that funky arm action/ arm slot of his.
He just didn’t have any life on the ball – it was just early spring training type stuff for him with the hitters being far ahead of him.
I think this outing by Marte prompts Joe to take a 2nd lefty. He simply cannot rely on Marte based on 5 innings in the playoffs. Today’s outing was troublesome.
I bet whoever pitches better among Logan or Ring becomes the primary lefty and comes up north. They may not be spectacular, but they get the job done more often than not and are less erratic than Marte…
In the race for the utility infield spot between Russo and Pena, it will most likely be based on whether Girardi wants offense and some defense or defense and some offense. I still believe it’s Pena’s to lose. He hit well last year for a rookie that only played once a week.
Tom J,
You do realize that this was Marte’s first time facing real batters in Spring? Why don’t you give him more than an innings worth of batters before you pronounce him dead and Royce Ring king dependable.
SJ, I’m sorry you had to resort to sarcastic insults because you disagree with me……I don’t think I deserve that, but whatever.
Where was Marte hit? Nice idiotic comments by Feinsand; Marte hasn’t pitched in months and he’s taking a potshot at him. I hope he’s ok….
“Howard hits ‘em back through the middle like two other Howards did…Frank and Ellie”
gb7-
if i remember right ellie hit line drives really well to the opposite field gap.
BryanHoch Hey, it’s Joba Chamberlain! And he’s pitching! about 1 minute ago
Wow, Tom J….You should post on NYYFans because they’re probably saying the same thing
This outing will have no impact on Girardi taking another lefty unless Marte is hurt.
Stop overreacting to meaningless ST games. It was the guy’s first outing of the Spring.
Mariano Rivera needed 27 pitches yesterday to get out of his one inning of work. Do you think Girardi is taking another closer because he’s worried about Mariano?
Boone Logan and Royce Ring are not better or more reliable pitchers than Damaso Marte. And please, don’t quote me ST stats. Take a look at each guys career lines when the games count and you will re-think your statement.
do or die time for joba
In his career Royce Ring has been 2 runs worse than Marte just going by ERA, give up more hits, walks, has a worse SO:BB, doesn’t K as many, and also has a major platoon split.
Logan is even worse.
Lefties his .266 off of Boone Logan, Righties have a .937 OPS vs him.
Nasty slider Joba
Betsy -Romine wasn’t built in a day
March 17th, 2010 at 2:45 pm
Where was Marte hit? Nice idiotic comments by Feinsand; Marte hasn’t pitched in months and he’s taking a potshot at him. I hope he’s ok….
**********************
Betsy, he got drilled in the back.
Betsy,
Those quotes had ZERO to do with you. Look at the game threads. There are folks in there who panic a LOT more than you over these games.
Spotting his fastball early
Joba’s fastball has nice life on it today. He’s also working quickly.
Beautiful slider to strike out Ruiz.
Joba just struck out Ruiz on his slider. One out.
Joba with the 3-2 slider to Ruiz and gets the K.
If Cervelli keeps hitting like this everyone on the team will want helmets like his!
Very good fastball to the inside part of the plate to the lefty Dobbs.
Joba got into his kitchen well with that pitch. Grounded out weekly to Tex.
randy l.
March 17th, 2010 at 2:45 pm
“Howard hits ‘em back through the middle like two other Howards did…Frank and Ellie”
gb7-
if i remember right ellie hit line drives really well to the opposite field gap.
————————————————————
Oh, yeah. Ellie and Moose Skowron had great opposite field and gap power. Howard was a lot like Rodriguez in that he was best when he didn’t pull the ball. When he got mad at a pitcher for throwing at him or another Yankee, he hit a rocket up the middle….low liners through the box. Scared the pitchers off of the plate. Ellie was mad a lot.
Joba looking very good so far
Jammed Dobbs on a weak grounder to first. Two out. Throwing the ball well so far.
m1kew
March 17th, 2010 at 2:49 pm
If Cervelli keeps hitting like this everyone on the team will want helmets like his!
*************************
LOL
I love Cisco and his Gazoo helmet
After a bloop double, Dwayne wise singles on a fastball up in the zone. 6-2 Phils
“There are folks in there who panic a LOT more than you over these games.”
Is that REALLY true?
Cheap double off Joba there. Weak pop up between second and RF. Russo tried to make a great diving play on the ball and the ball hit off his glove. Should have been a single at best.
Very poor fastball to Wise there from Joba that he hit for a single. Up and out over the plate.
Sounds like Joba’s pitching very well. Sure wish I could see it, mlb.tv.
Bloop double. Two outs, man on second.
Cervelli shows off his cannon throwing a runner out stealing 2nd. inning over.
Looked good there. Hope the fact that he gave up a run there doesn’t do him in.
is this on TV?
I only said that SJ because of the AAA comments; I was really the only one who brought that up. I apologize.
Erin, thanks!
I’m sure Marte will miss a game or so; I wonder if he’ll be ready for the start of the season. Poor guy – he was not healthy all last year and he takes it on the chin from some people who think he stinks.
Cervelli guns out Wise trying to steal to end the inning.
Nice to see Joba doing well.
Doesn’t matter though, he still isin’t pitching better than Hughes. Thus, he isin’t getting the 5th spot unless Hughes gets injured.
“Hey it’s Cody Ransom at 3B!”
he jumped all the way over to first in one leap.
i’ve seen it on you tube.
ok , it was two.
one leap to the mound
the second to first
BryanHoch Joba allows a RBI single, but in fairness he probably should have been out of the inning a batter earlier on a flare to RF. 2 minutes ago
Does that earned run off Joba mean that he is maintaining his springtime 27.00 ERA.
Cervelli made a very nice throw. He was still partially crouched and was able to gun the ball down to second to get Wise easy.
Joba looked good. Worked quickly. Had good life on his fastball. Made one mistake on the fastball to Wise.
Chamberlain gave up a run in just one inning. Well I think that just about seals it. Might as well take him out now to get him more on track to being the 8th inning set-up. Might as well start the remainder of his big league career asap. Afterall, we don’t want to set back his development as a set-up man by having him start.
You know, now that I think about it, I think perhaps he should probably be sent to AAA to learn to be the closer until Mariano Rivera retires.
We don’t want to set back his development as a closer by having him be a set-up man afterall…
What’s joba’s velocity like?
Chad -
If you happen to be sitting or have access to some gun readings could you post Joba’s velocity.
No velocity readings on the Phillies broadcast.
Cody Ransom has 4 ST HR’s, counting one he hit in a “B” Game.
Do we really want to dumb this place down and continue to believe in ST stats?
CB,
I thought he threw the ball very well that inning. I’m interested in seeing him building on it over his next 3 innings.
Stamina is a big thing for him if he wants to remain a starting pitcher.
What is this? The board now has a Holden Caulfield wanna-be? Maybe you should be out stalking somebody, little man.
So the Yankees haven’t ruined Joba or Phil? Anyone know what Phil’s velocity was yesterday……and what Joba’s is today? Actually, is the best gauge of someone throwing well the way the hitters react, regardless of the actual velocity?
SJ,
Agreed – his fastball had nice late life to it. Slider also looked good.
He just threw a terrific slider to Mayberry. Fantastic slider.
“What’s joba’s velocity like?”
He has a good 62 mph fastball going.
Holden why are you getting on Joba? He’s a good Yankee.
Joba K’s Mayberry 1-2 slider
Chad, do you know off-hand what Phil threw yesterday? I really wish these games were on tv – well, I knew this one wouldn’t because it’s on the road.
Joba just struck Mayberry out on a knee buckling slider. No shot what so ever to hit that pitch.
The only thing Chamberlain had go wrong the last inning was a bloop double, but, those pitches are really moving today. The best he’s looked since the 3 games after the All-Star break in 2009.
Cervelli takes a foul off behind his left ear, it looked like.
So how do the Yankees decide between the two pitchers if they both pitch well from here on out?
Joba K’s Mayberry on a check swing.
1-2-3 inning for Joba
“The best he’s looked since the 3 games after the All-Star break in 2009.”
GB7 -
Agreed. He looks much, much better than he did at the end of the year.
He’s actually working with nice pace, catching the ball and throwing it. Fastball has life to it. Slider has been very sharp – really nice tilt on it.
So how do the Yankees decide between the two pitchers if they both pitch well from here on out?
–
If Aceves, Joba, Hughes, and 1 of Gaudin and Mitre all look good.
I send Joba or Hughes down to AAA, use Aceves out of the pen, and 1 of Gaudin or Mitre as as a long man. Then give the last spot to Logan/Ring/Melancon
Ninja Burglar
March 17th, 2010 at 3:02 pm
Cervelli takes a foul off behind his left ear, it looked like.
*******************
Ouch. Poor Cisco.
So here’s a question for the board:
Factor 1: Cervelli develops into a EXCELLENT defensive major league catcher and surprises and develops into an above average major league hitting catcher.
Factor 2: Montero’s catching skills flatline in 2010 and he projects to be a below average catcher.
What do you do?
Carl
March 17th, 2010 at 3:03 pm
1-2-3 inning for Joba
**********************
Yay Joba!!
Betsy -Romine wasn’t built in a day
March 17th, 2010 at 3:02 pm
So how do the Yankees decide between the two pitchers if they both pitch well from here on out?
——————-
For the love of God, would you relax?
It’s spring training…..which is PRACTICE!!!!
Let it all play out and then see what happens.
Hughes and Joba will both play important roles for the team this year. There’s zero need to spend everyday fretting over every single thing they do.
Hughes is going to be the 5th starter and Joba is going to the bullpen.
However, Joba’s stuff has been really, really good today.
Great tilt on the slider and late movement on the fastball.
This is what he has to put together and IMO he can do that in the bullpen.
What Joba needs more than anything is a sustained period of success to get his mojo back. He can do that much better in the pen than he can in AAA.
Got a weak grounder for the third out. Two very good innings so far for him.
Factor 1: Cervelli develops into a EXCELLENT defensive major league catcher and surprises and develops into an above average major league hitting catcher.
Factor 2: Montero’s catching skills flatline in 2010 and he projects to be a below average catcher.
What do you do?
–
Cervelli catches 100 games
Montero catches 62 games, 1B/DH/RF 100 games
Montero just won’t develop into an “excellent” defensive major league catcher. What about a middle ground scenario? That seems far more likely to me given the scouting reports I’ve seen on his arm and mobility.
I’m happy to see that Cervelli has been able to wear that helmet with minimal fanfare.
All players should be wearing that helmet.
But I’d like to see him wear that kind of helmet when he’s catching as well if it’s at all possible.
Stuckey,
Trade for Joe Mauer! lol
Chamberlain is in line to pitch a dominate 4th inning … in the Yankees bullpen, which is where his day is slated to end.
WOWWWWWWW
Fatcessa: ‘Hopefully Joba gets lit up and goes to the BP’
CB
March 17th, 2010 at 3:04 pm
“The best he’s looked since the 3 games after the All-Star break in 2009.”
GB7 -
Agreed. He looks much, much better than he did at the end of the year.
He’s actually working with nice pace, catching the ball and throwing it. Fastball has life to it. Slider has been very sharp – really nice tilt on it.
————————————————————
So far today, it’s just like 2007 and 2008. Getting the ball from the catcher and chucking it with conviction. No thinking and rethinking.
Well, I’m thrilled that Joba looks good because I would KILL to have the two kids in the rotation; this is what I dreamed of a couple of years ago. Not only would we have an unbelievable rotation, it would shut the mediots up. Wait, that’s not true – it won’t shut them up. I already forsee the firestorm when/if Joba goes to the pen. The Francescas of the world will proclaim their rightness at the top of their lungs.
“Getting the ball from the catcher and chucking it with conviction. No thinking and rethinking.”
Joba hasn’t shaken off one sign so far. Catcher is putting down the fingers and Joba is throwing.
What was really dismaying to me about Joba this spring was how he shook off the catcher on two consecutive pitches in his first spring training appearance. He also worked so slowly.
None of that today.
He looks very good. Like a guy that would succeed in the rotation.
Joba always seems to be at his best when you see him at the the front of the mound with his glove in the air calling for the ball.
It’s like he can’t even wait to throw the next pitch. I guess it gives him less time to out-think himself.
I think late last season he wasn’t conditioned enough to work at that pace.
FWIW, when my wife saw him on the news a couple of nights ago she said he looked slimmer.
Betsy -Romine wasn’t built in a day
March 17th, 2010 at 3:02 pm
So how do the Yankees decide between the two pitchers if they both pitch well from here on out?
————————————————————
Betsy, they’ll just make the best of the situation and smile all season long.
The Yanks must have liked Boone Logan to have him included in the Vazquez trade. He has a good arm but, like many others, will need to become more consistent with his command.
It wouldn’t surprise me if he makes the team out of spring training (hopefully) with or without Marte. The Yanks would have carried two lefties if Coke were still around, so it’s not as if the Yanks are against the idea.
Marte can pitch to righties or lefties when he’s on. He needn’t be relegated strictly to lefty specialist duties.
Logan can be a 1-2 batter lefty specialist if they decide they want to go that route.
If someone like Melancon makes it, that’s great. But if it means he’s going to throw an inning a week in mop up duty rather than continuing to develop in the minors, I think they’re better off going with someone else.
Ken, stick it. I asked a question; if you get THIS upset about people asking questions, you need a straight jacket. Now, if you DON’T mind, I will ask another question which you are perfectly free to ignore. If you don’t ignore it, I will ignore you – so either way, I’m good.
SJ, what is your reasoning for that belief; I’m just curious. Let’s say Joba looks very good from hereon out, would the decision be made because he still has to prove he can start again? Would it be made because internally all Phil had to do was not lose the job? Thanks.
Joba also didn’t shake off any pitches in last outing.
Less is more with Joba. Stop thinking and just PITCH.
When he does that, he has great tempo, the mechanics are tighter, and the stuff is electric.
For those seeing the game:
Best guess as to Chamberlain’s velocity? 94? 95?
“Holden why are you getting on Joba?”
No, no, I love Joba…and PH, too. It is ST and stats mean nothing. However, with a smile, I noticed that Joba’s ST ERA coming into today’s game was 27.00. After his giving up that run in one inning that his 27.00 ERA was maintained. Love the guy. Hope both he and PH will be Yank starters for the next decade or more.
“The board now has a Holden Caulfield wanna-be… little man.”? Well, little is correct. And my name is Holden. I am petite. But to correct you, I am a women.
I teach bio-science at S.Hall. Go Yankees.
Betsy, no one gets upset about asking questions.
But when it’s the same panic stricken, the sky is falling stuff day after day in ST it gets a little tedious.
YankeesWFAN Marte was doing stretching exercises in the clubhouse, he’s fine. 15 seconds ago
Good news
CB,
Great to hear RE: Joba.
Joba might get the award for most flip-flops by fans.
One minute, he’s the greatest reliever in the game. Then he’s on his way to being a once in a generation starter. Then he’s terrible and should be traded. Then he’s back to being the heir apparent to Mariano. Next, he’s a headcase who lost his arm and will be lucky to be a setup man. Now maybe he’ll make it as a front-line starter. Maybe not.
It’s really interesting to see how fans are (over)reacting to prospects these days (myself included).
Anyway, appreciate the updates and insights from anyone watching the ST games.
CB
March 17th, 2010 at 3:11 pm
“Getting the ball from the catcher and chucking it with conviction. No thinking and rethinking.”
Joba hasn’t shaken off one sign so far. Catcher is putting down the fingers and Joba is throwing.
What was really dismaying to me about Joba this spring was how he shook off the catcher on two consecutive pitches in his first spring training appearance. He also worked so slowly.
None of that today.
He looks very good. Like a guy that would succeed in the rotation.
————————————————————
That’s the thing that you have to like about Pettitte and sabathia. Let the catcher call the game and make one or two suggestions a game on a pitch. That’s as close as you’ll ever see them shake off a catcher. Just hold the ball for a couple of seconds and get the next pitch. If it’s the wrong pitch, just tell them that they threw it in the wrong spot. No blaming, no excuses. It has to rub off on Chamberlain, sooner or later. It pretty much has with Hughes. Those long talks in the pen with Rivera did Hughes a world of good.
“Factor 1: Cervelli develops into a EXCELLENT defensive major league catcher and surprises and develops into an above average major league hitting catcher.
Factor 2: Montero’s catching skills flatline in 2010 and he projects to be a below average catcher.
What do you do?”
comparing cervelli with montero?
hahahhahahhahahhahahahhahhahahahahhahahhahahhahahahhahhaha
Joba gets a Pop up on a slider or curve not sure.
The Boston and Yankees rotation keeps getting compared and in general people give the nod to Boston. And for pitchers 1-5 that’ reasonable. They’re close.
But teams rarely if ever go through the season with 5 starters. Injuries always occur.
They’ve already occurred for the Sox as it look like Matsuzaka may start the season on the DL.
The yankees have a huge potential advantage over the Sox with starter 6 as long as either Joba or Phil can step into the rotation (the yanks also have a large potential advantage with starter 7 in Aceves).
The Sox and Yanks are going to need at least 7 starters to get through the season.
The Yanks should plan accordingly.
That doesn’t mean sending either Hughes or Joba to AAA.
But it does mean keeping the guy who goes to the pen stretched out.
Dave Robertson became one of the single best relief pitchers in the AL by the end of the season. There’s no reason why he can’t set Mo up.
Betsy,
Because “competition” or not, it was ALWAYS Phil Hughes’ job to lose. That’s the guy they want to be the fifth starter and he hasn’t done anything to change their minds this Spring.
Their ideal scenario is Hughes as the fifth starter, Aceves in his swingman role, and Joba in the bullpen.
There is a lot of belief among the Yankees that having Joba in the bullpen this year not only makes the team better but, it can make Joba better. Much like it did Hughes last year.
AAA is a waste for Joba. You accomplish nothing dominating AAA hitters. As far as being a #6 starter, the Yankees have plenty of those guys.
Gaudin, Aceves, Hirsh, Nova, McAllister. Those are #6 starters. Not taking an arm like Joba’s and wasting him in AAA.
They would rather have Joba pitching 8th innings, and sometimes 7th and 8th innings, getting his stuff and confidence back to dominant levels.
If you put Cashman and Girardi in a torture chamber, that’s the answer you would get from both of them.
“But to correct you, I am a women.” ???
Well, for a wo-MAN that was making a big fuss over spelling yesterday you sure could use some help yourself.
Erin,
very good news.
The Yanks bullpen was a pretty big weakness in the 1st half last season.
If they can continue the solid effort of the 2nd half through 2010, it could be the difference maker in a tough AL East this year.
Marte could be a big part of that. Hope he’s ok.
Joba walks Ibanez
“So how do the Yankees decide between the two pitchers if they both pitch well from here on out?”
So simple. We wait and see.
Joba with a nasty K on a slider
Holden
March 17th, 2010 at 3:20 pm
“So how do the Yankees decide between the two pitchers if they both pitch well from here on out?”
So simple. We wait and see.
————-
What a novel idea!
joba’s delivery just looks awful to me with the rapid falling off towards first base.
look at the difference of him in 2007 :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq6Wz25V3cg
Joba getting into a nice groove, what a great “problem” to have:)
“Because “competition” or not, it was ALWAYS Phil Hughes’ job to lose.”
———-
SJ,
while that may be true, things have changed so much with Phil and Joba over the past 2 years that whatever holds true one day can change with little notice.
Fooled time and time again, I’ve learned not to consider anything remotely set in stone with those guys (or I suppose any early 20′s pitching prospects).
If pace and thinking/game-calling is TRULY a factor in Chamberlain’s performance, then Girardi/Eiland and even Cashman have to bear some responsibility for this past and future progress as a starter.
While it would be an unusual step to take, might take some adjustment and you ideally don’t want to HAVE to do it, you simply set one simple ground rule for Chamberlain – you don’t shake off the catcher – EVER.
You throw whatever is put down. No walks off the mound, no hesitation. You simply throw what you’re told to the best of your ability as soon as you can.
In line with CB’s comment, above, one of Joe’s biggest challenges this year, much like last, will be managing the bullpen and getting guys the right amount of work.
One way might be to limit the innings of CC, AJ, and especially Andy, guy who pitched a lot last year. That way, Joba gets to pitch more than an inning at a time, and, in a pinch, might be able to give you 50 pitches without downside.
Joba 1-2-3 inning again.
Randy,
He’s throwing the ball real well today. Scout friend at the game is texting me.
Has him at 94-95 and the slider has had “great tilt” (his words) today.
This is a solid outing for him. An outing that he can build on.
Really nice 3 innings from Chamberlain. Even threw a change-up. Even just a ok to decent one will get the hitters thinking.
SJ, what’s dismaying is that this is likely the end of Joba as a starter, regardless of how he pitches out of the bullpen, isn’t it? I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m not exactly going to be rooting for Joba to succeed out there, because I think wasting this once in generation pinstriped arm in the eighth inning is a flat out crime.
Regardless of how dominant he may be as a starter (and his upside is certainly greater than that of Phil’s) it looks like the opportunity for him to have a career there is over. This all because he was jerked around needlessly by the organization when for 4 months he was the most effective starter on the American League’s best team.
The 2010 New York Yankees would probably be a better team with Jesus Montero DHing than Nick Johnson DHing. That doesn’t mean that for the sake of 1-2 wins (which is probably the difference between Robertson and Joba in the eighth inning, probably even far less than that) that you jeopardize a pitcher’s future and the team’s long term success thereby, for one season.
:Because “competition” or not, it was ALWAYS Phil Hughes’ job to lose. That’s the guy they want to be the fifth starter and he hasn’t done anything to change their minds this Spring.”
SJ may I ask what you’re basing this assumption on?
“Dave Robertson became one of the single best relief pitchers in the AL by the end of the season. There’s no reason why he can’t set Mo up.”
I agree with both statements, but we all know that middle relievers’ performance vary from year to year. Very unpredictable.
Ken, that’s your issue. I am simply asking a question – I am not in any way panic stricken. I have no idea why you even think that. I asked a question – that’s all. Stop reading so much into it. You’re not in front of me, you have no idea what I’m feeling as I type this.
Joba walks Ibanez – but did so on a fastball. No nibbling.
He’s continued to work on getting his fastball in on hitters and is doing it effectively.
From the stretch he’s continued to work with good pace. That’s nice to see as he slowed down so badly when a guy got on base last year. That’s when he really turned into sand.
On Sardinha Joba jammed him with a fastball in for strike two. Then went fastball outside. Struck him out with a fantastic slider. Sardinha had no chance to hit that pitch.
And it wasn’t one of the nibbling sliders that was easy to recognize and lay off of because it was going to wind up out of the zone. Real tight slider – that resembled his fastball well.
I have zero worries that Girardi will get the bullpen sorted out for the best.
I think he’s done an excellent job of that the past 2 years, especially after watching Torre make all the wrong moves for so many years.
stuckey,
Girardi/Eiland have told Joba to do these things many, many times.
This is part of the reason why I believe the same as SJ. Which is that it was Hughes’ job to lose.
Stuckey,
That’s true up to a point. Problem is, when a pitcher isn’t committed to a pitch, its awfully hard to force him to throw it. It leads to overthinking. A BIG problem with Joba.
I just think he needs to pitch. Period. In the bullpen to start the season and get the swagger and consistency back he had previously.
Joba is an adreneline guy. He can’t pitch without it.
I think putting back in the pen will get his stuff and his head back to where it should be.
After that, you go from there.
I think the Yankees are leaning in that direction with him.
Joe, with this rotation, there should be very few games inwhich Aceves or gaudin would need to go multiple innings and maybe not have to pitch anybody 3 days in a row. That sure would make Girardi look smart.
Velocity anyone??? If he his hitting between 94-96, that is a HUGE improvement.
Even threw a change-up. Even just a ok to decent one will get the hitters thinking.
–
Getting Joba to have more confidence in his change would be awesome. While he was in the minors I always heard his changeup was solid average to above, along with his curve. He only threw it 5% of the time last year. I’d like him to pull a timmy lincecum like RAB suggested.
55% Fastball, 20% slider, 15% curve, 10% changeup
GB, I don’t recall Phil making excuses too often – he’s usually pretty accountable.
Boston, so true…..I think it’s the expectations. Phil was supposed to throw 96 and be a #1. Oops, OMG, the Yankees ruined him because he doesn’t throw 96. He’s a bust OR he’s just a reliever. Joba has different mechanics – the Yankees RUINED him OMG. I can’t stand fans who blame the Yankees for every single thing that goes wrong with a youngster.
“And it wasn’t one of the nibbling sliders that was easy to recognize and lay off of because it was going to wind up out of the zone. Real tight slider – that resembled his fastball well.”
————
great to hear.
I thought that was perhaps the single biggest problem with Joba last year. His slider was so obvious and didn’t have anybody fooled. Hitters sat fastball and if they didn’t get it, they drew a walk. No guessing.
Joba’s Foundation and moving Mechanics look much tighter and very sound…..And yes, no shake offs, no thinking beyond what the task calls for….Very encouraging
That said, ANYONE would benefit from talking to Mo. I think the best thing they can learn from him as far as on the field results is to realize that you did the best you can and not to beat yourself up over bad results. I think that’s why Mo has lasted so long.
Thank goodness Marte is ok.
great to hear joba is pitching well. as long as he pitches well he will be in the big leagues. if he continued to struggle then theres something to worry about. biggest concren with joba is concistency
___________
“So here’s a question for the board:
Factor 1: Cervelli develops into a EXCELLENT defensive major league catcher and surprises and develops into an above average major league hitting catcher.
Factor 2: Montero’s catching skills flatline in 2010 and he projects to be a below average catcher.
What do you do?
_____________
all depends on who is ready and when, and when posada calls it quits or can no longer catch anymore. but i think theres room for Cervelli, Romine, and montero, and maybe even posada if he takes a roll as a bench guy or something. but cervelli and romine can catch/backup. montero DH full time, maybe catch or play first or OF here n there
However, with a smile, I noticed that Joba’s ST ERA coming into today’s game was 27.00. After his giving up that run in one inning that his 27.00 ERA was maintained. Love the guy. Hope both he and PH will be Yank starters for the next decade or more.
***************************
Math isn’t my strong point – but a 27.00 ERA means a pitcher gives up 3 earned runs per inning (9 X 3 = 27)so if he gave up just one run in 1 inning wouldn’t his ERA be 9.00 (1 X 9 = 9) – and if that is true wouldn’t his ERA then get lowered from 27.00?
“Girardi/Eiland have told Joba to do these things many, many times.
This is part of the reason why I believe the same as SJ. Which is that it was Hughes’ job to lose.”
Let me be clear. I’m not advocating they tell him, ask him or suggest he do this. I’m advocating they give him no choice.
To address SJ’s point. I agree this is an imperfect, less than ideal solution, and it might be awkward at first, for all the legitimate reasons cited. But if he begins to have success, and trust the results, this will lessen in time.
BryanHoch Marte says his back feels ok now that he has ice on it. about 1 minute ago
GB – no disagreement. I think getting the guys in the pen enough work would be a nice problem to have.
First off, he doesn’t have a once in a generation arm. You really have to stop with that stuff because its not true.
He throwing the ball 94-96. PLENTY of guys have that kind of arm in baseball.
Stuckey,
I’m basing it on several things….
One, several people around the team I have talked to since the end of last season who believe his best spot is in the pen.
Second, I think the Yankees believe he is better suited mentally and physically for the bullpen right now.
Without getting into specifics, they have their reasons. Perhaps, if it shakes out the way I think it will, they will make those reasons public.
Third, my own personal observations, combined with scouts and players I know and trust, re: Joba’s best role.
“55% Fastball, 20% slider, 15% curve, 10% changeup”
————
I’ll never forget a Joba vs Youkilis AB where Joba made Youk look like a mockery when he dropped a tight curveball in there for strike 3 a couple years back.
If Joba ever gets those 4 pitches working (I know, I know – baby steps)….
randy,
Joba still is not back to his 2007 form. But this start is real progress. He looks so much better than he did last year. Much better.
Last year he was slowing down, his shoulder was flying open on some pitches, he was yanking other pitches. He wasn’t repeating his delivery.
Today he didn’t look as good as he did in 2007-2008 – but that’s ok. He repeated his delivery today much better than he did last year. He was brisk, stayed compact and did not overthink.
Joba thinking out on the mound is a very bad thing.
He looks like a power pitcher, confident in his stuff and his ability to miss bats and prevent hard contact.
There’s still work to do – but I’m encouraged.
Why don’t you get into specifics, specifics are interesting.
Nice another half inning for Joba
Joba needs to bring the rain at 98!!
I have to share a story with you fellas. Yesterday my wife was contacted by a cousin she didnt know she had. She comes from Texas and her familys name is Pettitte. I told her to do some research and ask if there is any relation to Andy. Her grandmother is Pettitte but is senile and cant remember much. So i know someone that is cousins with Alfredo Ace. And now my wife and kids might be related someway to Andy. My wife always said that my older son was Jeters. Hmmm, i wonder if that would make Andy and Jeter related as well? If i can only figure out a way to start cashing in with some free tickets and a paid for flight to New York.
“I think the Yankees are leaning in that direction with him.”
SJ, I recognize your logic in terms of why YOU think Hughes is best suited to start (right now) and Chamberlain is best suited for the bullpen (right now), but I’ll reiterate my question – what have the Yankees said or done to indicate to you this is how THEY are thinking?
SJ, if you think Joba can still start next year coming out of a pen stint in 2010, then ok – I can buy that (especially if his stuff is good and he’s healthy). In order to have both Phil and Joba in the rotation next year, though, you have to let Andy go OR not re-sign Javy/sign a FA.
CB, do you let Joba throw 2 innings at a time to keep him stretched out? Maybe let him (or Phil, sorry) throw maybe 3 innings? If they can’t be used for the next few games, so be it – as you said, the pen is good enough to take up the slack.
I’ve always heard/read that Joba has a plus-plus fastball and slider and a plus change/curve.
stuckey,
I believe that Joba pitches better with a fire under his butt. So threaten away. But, this would be the ultimate babying of a pitcher. Joba Rules and babying Hughes in the minors would look like tough love if they have to keep motivating Joba.
joba with the K his 4th
Cervelli has his batting average up to .583 now:)
Because I have no desire to out people who give me info. That’s not too hard to figure out.
This was the best Joba has thrown the ball in the last two years in March. His arm is healthy and he’s in much better shape than he was last year.
This is something to build on.
joba with the bare hand off the mound. 2outs.
Ok, let me rephrase. He “had” a once in a generation arm, before
a) He hurt his shoulder, due to no fault of the organization
b) He hurt his shouler, because the organization decided to jerk him around from the bullpen to rotation in one season
Whether he ever gets back the stuff he had as a starter in ’08 is beyond me. But the stuff he flashed there was the best stuff I have ever seen a starter uncork. Check out some of his pitch fx recordings from his June start against the Pirates. He was SITTING 99, touching 101 all game. Flat out untouchable.
m
March 17th, 2010 at 3:36 pm
stuckey,
I believe that Joba pitches better with a fire under his butt.
——————–
Maybe he should try Clemens’ icy hot trick? lol
Joba ends the game with the K
I don’t care what any “inside” sources say, Cashman is no dummy, he will put Joba in the rotation when it’s all said and done. Whether that’s this year or next, it will happen.
“Because I have no desire to out people who give me info. That’s not too hard to figure out.
This was the best Joba has thrown the ball in the last two years in March. His arm is healthy and he’s in much better shape than he was last year.
This is something to build on.”
– Which is exactly why he should be the 5th starter..
SOS, that is so cool!! That would be awesome if they do turn out to be related.
Not counting Rivera, who doesn’t really intimidate anybody, mostly because the hitters know they aren’t hitting him anyway, the closest bullpen intimidator NYYs have had out of the bullpen in the last 10-15 years was probably Bruney. That was mostly because he could get wild. Before that, was probably Gossage….unless you were Frank Thomas, who couldn’t hit Jeff Nelson with an oar. He usually ran out of the box.
Joba never had this “once in a generation” arm. Where do you all get some of this stuff?
He’s no Strasburg, now that’s a once in a generation arm.
Joba continues to look very, very good in his last inning of work. Overpowering at times with his fastball
He’s getting inside at will on hitters and really pitching off of his fastball.
This was as much as we could reasonably hope for.
He looked very good.
Carl
March 17th, 2010 at 3:39 pm
Joba ends the game with the K
***********************
Good for Joba!!
I watched Joba pitch today.
What I saw was a lot more Boston Joba than Cornhusker Joba.
If he has another good outing like this one.
It could be a tougher call for Joe G.
What I saw out there today wasn’t just a reliever but that’s JMO.
I am cool with him in the pen as long as the possibility will exist that he can make the rotation again.
Let’s see what the last start looks like.
stuckey,
To be fair to SJ and to give him the benefit of the doubt that his sources that tell him the Yankees are leaning towards Hughes (even before ST started).
There have been multiple writers who have penned the same. The Yankees were leaning towards Hughes as the starter.
Stuckey,
The fact there is a “competition” for a spot in the rotation, considering he made 30 starts, should tell you something.
Cashman, who has always been a big advocate of Joba starting, has now said publicly since December, he’s not married to the concept.
I think Joba, at least right now, would prefer to start. I think many in the organization would prefer him in the bullpen now.
I think, as Randy has put it best, he’s less “maintainence” in the pen.
I also know, unless he changed his mind in January when I asked him, Joba would rather be in the bullpen than starting in Scranton.
Too many indications I’ve picked up on make me think they prefer Hughes in the rotation and Joba in the pen right now.
We have another week to see if I’m right.
Sab,
Yup, I think you are right.
If he had pitched for but one out, I think, that would have continued his 27.00 era.
Thanks for the catch, Sab.
Because I have no desire to out people who give me info. That’s not too hard to figure out.
–
If you’re not giving out any names I don’t see what the big deal is. Plenty of people are around Joba in the Yankee organization. But this is why people who come on here with their inside information get salt grained.
sj44-
joba’s delivery today hurt my eyes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq6Wz25V3cg
watch that video . you can see the straight forward move to the plate and the spinning move in the first 30 seconds.
watch the first pitch especially.
he spins rapidly on most of his breaking balls, but not as much on most fastballs
sometimes he consciously throws a fastball with a conventional front foot landing with no spinning towards the first base line.
i haven’t looked at this very much , but based on a quick viewing it appears that joba is now using his spin move he used to throw his breaking pitches with on all his pitches now.
if that’s true(and maybe it isn’t) , he may not be driving toward the plate on his fastball the way he used to.
he’s all over the charts in that video, but he does sometimes drive towards the plate with his fastball hitting 98 with it.
maybe with his over reliance on his slider and not his fastball he’s gotten away from his fastball mechanics.
i’m a catcher, not a pitching coach, but joba doing a different landing for different pitches seems odd.
SJ, you were quoted several times on NYYfans……you should be proud. Naturally it was about Joba’s velocity, which is all they care about. Their belief is that he thros harder, so he should be in the rotation. It’s fine to think Joba should be the one, but velocity is the last reason. In any case, good job Joba – good couple of days for the kids. I wish we could go with a 6 man rotation, lol.
Patrick,
Perhaps that will happen. Or, perhaps if he goes to the pen, he stays in the pen. That’s to be determined.
Bottom line though, there is one spot in the rotation right now and its Hughes’ to lose. If he gets the spot, Joba is in the pen. He’s not going to AAA. This outing sealed any of that talk since he is one of the best 12 pitchers on the team.
Where it goes from there, we shall see.
m, again it’s a temporary measure. A TOOL to get him to understand what works best for him.
To me, part of Chamberlain’s struggles in 2009 was what seemed clearly to be his desire to demonstrate his starter’s acumen. To show he was a thinking, 4th pitch pitcher, and not just a fireballing reliever.
He went too far the other way trying to show this. He has to stop thinking like a “starter” and/or a “reliever” for that matter and throw like a pitcher.
Erin
March 17th, 2010 at 3:40 pm
SOS, that is so cool!! That would be awesome if they do turn out to be related.
————————————————————
If she’s related to andy Pettitte, she could prove it by cooking up some jambalya and smoking some crawdads.
Just be careful about smoking crawdads, though. Those little claws will tear the Zig-Zags.
“Joba never had this “once in a generation” arm. Where do you all get some of this stuff?”
That’s obviously a very subjective label.
But Joba has/had an arm very comparable to Justin Verlander’s.
Joba was sitting mid to high nighties even late in his starts both in the minors in 2007 and majors in 2008. On top of that he had a phenomenal slider and a plus curve with a change up that looked to develop into a plus pitch.
Once in a generation or not – there are simply very few human beings who can do that.
Jerkface,
If you don’t like the info, ignore. I don’t care.
I’m not giving out names just to satisfy your curiousity.
“Perhaps that will happen. Or, perhaps if he goes to the pen, he stays in the pen. That’s to be determined.”
There is no possible way Cashman doesn’t give him another shot in the rotation.
Whether that’s this year or next year, I don’t know. But after seeing him as a starter in the minors and then in the majors in 2008 I can’t imagine anyone with half a brain would give up on him after 2009. Especially considering the innings limit and the absurd methods the Yanks used to stick to that limit.
CB-
you have a very good eye with video.
lok at this and tell me what you see with joba before and joba now:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq6Wz25V3cg
especially the first pitch with how he follows through.
i love ace, but is been a 2 man race and is startedto heat.
is gotta be a tough decsion, they both deserve to start. good problem to have
what was joba’s final line?
stuckey,
lol, I got you.
Where Joba ends up, I don’t care. He could be in the pen or the rotation, it matters not to me.
What I do want, though, is for Phil to be in the rotation.
I liked Joba’s pace, velocity and generally good command of his FB.
The slider was exceedingly sharp.
We already know he has a good curve and a serviceable CU.
I like the way he seemed to attack the hitter’s today.
No monkeying around. No indecisiveness.
He only walked 1 batter. Struck out 4.
Few balls were hit hard.
I wonder if he will be even stronger the next time out ?
Joba is a starter. Anyone can relieve.
Joba Mania is being renewed here at The LoHud….A clean 4 inning stint on March 17th is most welcomed, however it hardly removes the images of most of 2009…..Give him and yourselves a break, and let the rebuilding process work itself out….One step at a time…
4ip 2h 1er 1w 5k
Verlander is a once in a generation arm.
Unless Joe switches things around, it looks like Hughes’ next appearance will be Sunday vs Detroit (1:05 PM YES) and Joba’s will be Monday @ Phillies (1:05 PM YES)
CB,
I think the question is, how do you get him back to that level?
I don’t think its in Scranton.
I think there is some belief he can get back to that level in the bullpen. Think less, let it fly, get back some confidence, swagger and success and see where it goes from there.
Nobody with a source would drop their name or even their position.
It would be the quickest way to shut off a pipeline.
You can doubt it if you want, but just because a person doesn’t want to reveal the source doesn’t make the source any less real than it was (if in fact there is a source)
It’s encouraging that Joba is progressing. It appears that Cone was right. I think his velo will continue to tick up as he builds arm strength.
CB-
From today’s posts I get the impression that you do not favor Joba to the BP ? Is that a correct reading of your position ?
Thanks.
Chamberlain can make a ton of money as the Yankee closer. He’s probably the best bet going forward to being Rivera’s successor. He has every chance to be a Gossage clone and at a younger age. He won’t be 25 until late September.
NYY has a lot of outstanding arms coming through the system over the next 2-3 years. He won’t be required to “pace” himself for 7+ innings. He can do what he did today….just pitch without thinking. One thing he will always have to do is watch his weight, much like Bobby Jenks and that will wear him down in the summer months.
“The fact there is a “competition” for a spot in the rotation, considering he made 30 starts, should tell you something.”
But that works both ways. If it were Hughes that were truly favored, the same question applies – why the competition?
I believe there could be some merit to the motivation angle, and that Cashman and Girardi believe competition (perceived or real) brings out the best in young players (the last couple of days would do nothing to dissuade them if this were the case).
Nothing personal SJ (and I’m confident you won’t take it as such) but I’ve spend too many professional years discerning the difference between the opinion of a decision/difference-maker and the conjecture of those around them (which is what I’m gathering is your source type) to not take it with a grain of salt.
If you were to tell me you believe you’ve heard the opinion of Cashman/Girardi expressed to you, even indirectly, that’s one thing. But I’m not sure you are.
The point is I’d take anything less than “Cashman SAID this” with some scrutiny. It’s the people close to decision-makers that are VERY prone to wanting people to think they know more than they do.
This is a near universal condition.
Well, not “anybody” can relieve and its remains to be seen if he is indeed a starting pitcher.
If he is, then he will eventually become a starting pitcher and a good one.
If he isn’t, unlike a lot of pitchers, he has another way he can go.
Once aceves’ back started getting cranky, he was no longer in the picture as the #5 starter. Not only that, but, he has a lot of value in the multi-roll spot. That’s a rare arm to have, especially one that provides quality innings.
You guys completely misunderstood, I never said to give out names. you said you had SPECIFIC INFORMATION. If you have specific information, share it. I never said to give up your CI or whoever.
I just think its a cheap in any kind of discussion to insinuate that you have more knowledge than the rest of us but then not share said knowledge.
Andy Pettitte and Javi Vasquez are not long for this Yankee World. Joba and Phil will be in the rotation whether it happens this year or next, depending on injuries and innings limits.
If Joba ends up throwing 93-97 mph again like he was in 2007 & 2008 in the rotation, I can’t see how they can justify putting him in the pen when he’s ready to throw 200 innings.
Erin,
That would be pretty cool if it ends up being true. My family are all already Yankee fans. But it would more than likely solidify the kids staying Yankees for life and not jumping ship in the future. Also a good story to tell the grand kids in years to come. Not sure if theyll believe it though.
GB, do the the grandkids believe any story you give them? Or do they instead just have the whatever look while your talking?
No disrespect to anyone, but I don’t take what’s posted here as being 100% accurate no matter who posts it.
It’s not that the person is making stuff up, it’s that even good sources have biases and agendas.
Stuckey,
They spent all last year building him up to be a starting pitcher. One would think that would guarantee a rotation spot for him in 2010.
If not, why build him up?
Clearly, he’s not guaranteed a rotation spot.
Do you not think there is a possibility that, at least for now, they are re-considering him as a starting pitcher? At least for this year?
If not, why isn’t he guaranteed a spot in the rotation given all the work they did with him to get his innings up to a starters level?
Clearly, something has changed. Perhaps they believe he needs to be in the pen to reclaim what he lost stuff-wise.
Perhaps they believe he’s better suited for the bullpen.
Whatever it is, something over the winter changed with regard to how they see him or he would have been guaranteed a rotation spot coming into the Spring.
It is Joba’s job to lose. Not Phil’s.
I don’t know who you’re talking to in the Yankees org. but I have my sources as well and they clash big time.
Jerkface,
I believe what we’re talking about also assumes that the plans for Hughes/Chamberlain is somehow an open conversation in the organization.
Anyone with a job can tell you what you know and what co-workers and superiors know are very rarely the same thing.
If a pipeline to Cashman’s ultimate thinking existed, it would have already been exploited by the bear writers.
SJ44,
Well, not “anybody” can relieve and its remains to be seen if he is indeed a starting pitcher.
Its crazy that people have to keep bringing this up, but Joba has been a Starting Pitcher his entire life/career except for the short time he went berzerk when he first came up. He was recruited and drafted as a starter. Thats how his value was seen and appreciated over the course of his high school and college career.
Now, did he have a great half summer out of the bullpen? Yes he did. But how does that equate to completely changing the tables to the point where it now “remains to be seen if he can start?”
And yes, anyone can relieve. Kyle Farnsworth was highly regarded as a reliever after one summer, too.
I think I can answer the part of”.. if Hughes is favored why the competition?…” That is because last year PH spent most of the year in the pen. The “competition” is a way for PH to earn the SP spot without just ripping it from Joba’s hands. I’m not sure what will happen. I’d like to see both as SP one day. If not then I think PH as a SP and Joba in the pen is probably making the team stronger because when he was on, Joba just dominates out of the pen.
I do think there is some merit to SJ’s opinion that if the NYY were satisfied with Joba as a SP why is there a competition. That is a good point. Once someone establishes himself he doesn’t usually have to compete and prove himself year after year.
S.o.S.
March 17th, 2010 at 4:04 pm
Erin,
That would be pretty cool if it ends up being true. My family are all already Yankee fans. But it would more than likely solidify the kids staying Yankees for life and not jumping ship in the future. Also a good story to tell the grand kids in years to come. Not sure if theyll believe it though.
GB, do the the grandkids believe any story you give them? Or do they instead just have the whatever look while your talking?
————————————————————
Of course they believe me. I give them pizza and beer….and tootsie roll pops.
I take it that you’ve never heard of smoked crawdads or Zig-Zag rolling papers?
JK, Phil can get to about 160 or 170 innings – with our rotation, it’s not a big deal.
randy,
I agree with you. Joba looked better today but not nearly as good as he looked in 2007.
The biggest difference – as you pointed out – Joba was more stayed more balanced in 2007 and did so more consistently than what we saw today. He generated much easier velocity.
He stayed taller and in turn generated a much better downward plane on the ball, especially his fastball (his ground ball rates in the minors were tremendous for that reason).
One of the issues here is that Joba just doesn’t have that much experience pitching. He didn’t really play ball seriously until he lost weight and played ball late in his high school career.
But today I think there was real improvement – he was closer to 2007 than he was to 2009 and I think that’s what counts.
For example, last year he pause as he moved through his balance point was often very pronounced. It looked like he was almost stopping as he moved through his delivery. Today he was much more fluid.
I just think he was so bad at the end of last year that to see him throw today as a really good sign.
Still has a lot of work to do – but it was progress.
I think Jerkface brings up a fair point but I understand why SJ doesn’t want to reveal too much.
Apologies, Jerkface.
SJ can confirm, but I think he said that the Yankees were leaning towards Hughes as a starter and Joba to the bullpen.
Re: Aceves’ achy back, Olney (?) said that his achy back required maintenance that could be be better done on a starter’s schedule.
Let’s be real, nobody has any Yankee sources on this blog just opinions which is the point of commenting on a blog. But sources.. HAHAHA!
That’s funny.
“They spent all last year building him up to be a starting pitcher. One would think that would guarantee a rotation spot for him in 2010.
If not, why build him up?”
It’s simple. It’s because of their often contradictory goals of trying to win now while simultaneously developing young players.
They don’t think Joba in the rotation gives them the best chance to win now, so they will try to develop him as a pitcher in the pen, and if he progresses, he will remain a candidate for a future role in the rotation.
SJ44,
Don’t you think the main thing they are worried about is why his velocity never came back after the Tex injury? Even in the bullpen last year he was only 93-96 mph.
Chamberlain can make a ton of money as the Yankee closer. He’s probably the best bet going forward to being Rivera’s successor.
========
GB,
Does that mean we’ve closed the book on Melancon being the successor? A couple years ago it was a foregone conclusion.
if his armstrength comes back and he starts popping triple digits again, we’re going to be in very good shape. As has been discussed ad nauseum, Verlander went through a similar lower velo period. Heck, Phil Hughes has, too.
“Clearly, he’s not guaranteed a rotation spot.”
Never argued he was. But again, your logic is double-sided. If they indeed did spend all last year (up until the last week in September) building him up, it’s hard to justify the Yankees scuttling that plan based on the 1st three spring training starts (two really, as Chamberlain was arguably better today than Hughes was yesterday).
“”If not, why isn’t he guaranteed a spot in the rotation given all the work they did with him to get his innings up to a starters level?”
Motivation. I think there IS a strong argument to be made that Chamberlain’s rapid rise to game perhaps did have a detrimental effect on this attitude and preparation.
From a mental standpoint, a case could be made that they had to break him down some and get him back to thinking he had to earn his role.
“Whatever it is, something over the winter changed with regard to how they see him or he would have been guaranteed a rotation spot coming into the Spring.”
Again, unless they wanted to motivate him.
Girardi said as much from a micro-standpoint just YESTERDAY. He said Chamberlain had to step it up…
… and he did….
I don’t know the Yankees thinking. I’m simply saying there is a much logic to the motivation angle.
Meanwhile, we need more games on YES.
Melancon was never thought of as the “heir” to Mariano. Not by the Yankees and not by scouts around the league. His ceiling is as a 8th inning setup guy.
We really could use Cody Ransom to back up ARod, give Alex a rest.
m
March 17th, 2010 at 4:09 pm
Apologies, Jerkface.
SJ can confirm, but I think he said that the Yankees were leaning towards Hughes as a starter and Joba to the bullpen.
Re: Aceves’ achy back, Olney (?) said that his achy back required maintenance that could be be better done on a starter’s schedule.
————————————————————
Short inning starts would kill the bullpen, though….much like Wang’s and Chamberlain’s did last year. They still have Gaudin in the bullpen to take some of those innings if Aceves can’t go on that day. Aceves is just too valuab;e in the role he had last year. Probably more valuable doing that than as a #5 starter, since NYY has so many other options.
Thanks for the updates SJ, CB & GB! (and others)
I believe SJ is right about Joba needing his MoJo again and finding it in the BP. Also, ST stats mean little but how a player looks or plays or pitches means a lot.
As a side note, I don’t think Ransom was nearly as bad as he looked last year. But 4 HR in ST means zip.
Good to hear that Joba was much better today. The NY sports writers are going to be scrambling after this, won’t have anything to write about (save for Chad).
Going to be interesting to see how the #5 starter shakes out between he and Hughes over the next couple weeks. I’ve been going back and forth on this so much myself, that I’m not sure I have a preference either way. I see definite benefits to either in the rotation.
Rich,
Exactly! That’s what I have been trying to say all along.
They aren’t sold enough on him as a starter (at least not yet) to give him a spot in the rotation.
They are sold on him as a setup guy.
Does it foreclose the opportunity to start forever if that’s the way it shakes out after ST? No.
They are hedging their bets with Joba. Have been since the end of last season.
That’s why you haven’t heard any declarative statements by Cashman, as he made last year at this time, about Joba’s starting upside.
“From today’s posts I get the impression that you do not favor Joba to the BP ? Is that a correct reading of your position ?”
MTU,
I’d like to see both Joba and Phil in the rotation long term.
This year, whoever loses and winds up in the pen – I’d like to see that player stay stretched out and throw multiple innings.
My main priority for Joba is to see him get back to throwing the way he used to. The role is secondary for right now.
That said, my preference would be for Joba to be in the rotation this year because if he winds up in the pen this year the zoo will only continue and I’d hate to see him wind up in the pen long term.
He is not a “failed starter” yet.
I’d be fine with him in the pen this year as well as long as the plan would be to get him back into the rotation next year. If the team thinks having him spend time in the pen this year will help him long term and short I’m ok with that.
But it seems like this situation is set up for Joba winding up in the pen, the wrong conclusions being drawn from that move, and him remaining there.
So much of the “evidence” for Joba being more “cut out” for the pen is whether or not he’s pumping his fist, etc. He pitched poorly out of the pen last year in the playoffs but he pumped his fist some again and somehow that’s supposed to represent a sea change. He was still not real good out of the pen last year.
I personally don’t care how he “looks” pitching as long as he’s producing maximum value for the team.
But at this point it’s first up to him. He has to continue to get his old stuff back and build on what he did today.
I don’t know why anyone would trust someone as erratic as Joba has appeared professionally and personally to take over as Closer, regardless of how overrated the position of closer is.
Melancon graded out as a ‘closer’ by the yankees on:
- stuff
- make up
- their psyche test
I’d be hard pressed to believe Joba with his mechanics, conditioning, and makeup would be the same.
Yea having a guy dominate in 20 innings at the end of the season was nice, but nothing about Joba screams ‘mariano rivera’ to me. I was much more impressed with Hughes relieving.
Betsy -Romine wasn’t built in a day
March 17th, 2010 at 3:35 pm
CB, do you let Joba throw 2 innings at a time to keep him stretched out? Maybe let him (or Phil, sorry) throw maybe 3 innings? If they can’t be used for the next few games, so be it – as you said, the pen is good enough to take up the slack.
====
The problem is, there’s no predictability when it comes to relief. Appearances are dictated by circumstance – no way to keep him stretched out.
They’d have to commit to making him the long man/swing starter. Whoever doesn’t get the job needs to go to Triple A, at least long enough to build up and remain on course for starting – which they both are suited for.
“One of the issues here is that Joba just doesn’t have that much experience pitching. He didn’t really play ball seriously until he lost weight and played ball late in his high school career.”
CB-
it does appear that one factor in joba’s problems is that joba is relatively new to pitching.
look at this 10 second video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlCbITV8qEY
it seems like you never see joba landing like this anymore.
I take it that you’ve never heard of smoked crawdads or Zig-Zag rolling papers?
=========
Heard of zid zag rolling papers. Never tried it.
Speaking of rolling paper. Do you include candy cigarettes with the beer for the rugrats?
Sorry for taking long to reply. I think my computer caught Ericas virus or maybe my 4 month cough. Scanning as we speak.
Betsy,
I can go either way between Hughes & Joba. I would rather the loser go to AAA than the bullpen. Not because they have anything else to learn but so they can immediately move back into the rotation when an injury happens.
Melancon was never thought of as the “heir” to Mariano. Not by the Yankees and not by scouts around the league. His ceiling is as a 8th inning setup guy.
–
Interview with either Newman or one of the other minor league pitching guys says otherwise. Robertson was always ’8th inning setup guy’ and Melancon was ‘closer’.
Melancon apparently aced their psychological evaluation all draftees / potential draftees go through. I’ll try and dig up the interview/article I read that in.
People, Joba wasn’t injured in Texas…..Inflammation is a condition, not an injury…Normally it’s a cortisone shot, ice therapy, and maybe a missed start….Yanks were very pro-active in their approach regarding his situation….They just shut him down, as the club was falling out of contention anyway…….As for ragging on SJ and his source’s confidentiality, just respect that….I sometimes name names because they’re former players, who are friends and don’t care…..I did make a mistake a few years ago regarding Damon, and Randy I quickly saved my bacon….Read the information / opinions and in the end you make the decisive decision on it’s merits….SJ lays it out there for the record..Sometimes I think he takes way too much grief for his contributions
I still can’t see how Joba AND Phil aren’t in the rotation next season. If we go after Lee, we could have a starting 5 of :
CC
LEE
Burnett
Chamberlain
Hughes
Simply nasty.
For this season, however, if you stunt Joba’s growth by pegging him for the pen, this hurts his ’11 potential. I still say the best idea is to let the 5 starter slot be a “caddy” of sorts. Joba is the main guy, but if he blows up or is inefficient Hughes comes in for 4+ innings.
Keeps both guys on schedule and their innings up, and in case of injury its a simple fix.
Read the information / opinions and in the end you make the decisive decision on it’s merits….SJ lays it out there for the record..Sometimes I think he takes way too much grief for his contributions
–
The problem is when people post their opinions and try to back it up with ‘information’ from their ‘sources’ but don’t say what that information is.
Giving an opinion is fine.
Saying your opinion is the most correct because the yankees agree with it for reasons you won’t disclose is bunk.
Jerkface,
Havnt had the opportunity to watch any games so far this year. Do you think Melancon’s stage fright is behind him now? Some just cant repeat what they did in the minors. Im hoping the 2010 version looks as dominant with the big boys up in the box as he did with the minor leagues in years past.
CB,
Your opinion re: Joba and rotation vs bullpen is virtually identical to mine. What you are saying makes a lot of sense.
S.o.S.
March 17th, 2010 at 4:12 pm
Chamberlain can make a ton of money as the Yankee closer. He’s probably the best bet going forward to being Rivera’s successor.
========
GB,
Does that mean we’ve closed the book on Melancon being the successor? A couple years ago it was a foregone conclusion.
————————————————————
I don’t have a clue as to what role the Yanks have in mind for Melancon. I’m just looking at what NYY has coming up through the system, plus, NYY may or may not re-sign Vazquez or Pettitte. Chamberlain may move into the rotation next year, or, they may give McAllister a crack at it. It’s going to get crowded if just 3 of that group of kids come through bigtime. You can just about bet on NYY going after Lee hard, also. Of the top 10 pitchers in the system, NYY may hit big on 3 of them.
I’ve only seen Melancon pitch once this spring but he looked fine. I don’t think he had stage fright, i think he had inconsistent work. He didn’t do too bad for his first time up, no worse than David Robertson (he of th 5 BB/9 and 5 ERA his first time up).
I think he will be able to contribute with regular work, which he will get this season. By 2011 its likely you’ll see Robertson/Melancon locking down the 7th and 8th.
I don’t think Aceves will have a problem averaging at least 6 innings per start. He’s too efficient.
The article I read said that the maintenance on his back would be easier to do if he pitched every 5 days.
“it seems like you never see joba landing like this anymore.”
randy,
You’re right – he doesn’t. He delivery just isn’t as smooth and as fluid as it used to be.
I don’t know why. Maybe he’s been trying to “get more” on the ball and changed his finish.
Even before he was somewhat inconsistent with his mechanics. But he was just more fluid more often and better balanced. As you point out – you see that clearly in the video from him in the minors.
I hope he can get back to being that guy. He used to generate velocity much more easily.
That’s the irony – too many people focus on the fist pumping, “adrenaline” rush joba when in the past he’s thrown in the upper 90′s without any of that fanfare but better mechanics.
Joba’s issue to me isn’t his role as much as it is his mechanics. Part of that is his pension to overthink out on the mound.
Let’s hope he continues to improve.
M,
I think people want to put Aceves into that weird swing role because he is from the mexican league and there is a belief that those kind of pitchers (mexican ones?) are somehow different from other pitchers. Rubber armed or what have you.
The reality is Aceves broke down in 2009 from his weird work pattern. He’d probably benefit from regular, scheduled work.
New post with Chamberlain audio.
GreenBeret7
March 17th, 2010 at 4:25 pm
I heard Nova really turned some heads this ST as well!
No, the reality is, he broke down after his one start. He didn’t break down working in the bullpen.
It has nothing to do with his heritage, re: his role. It has to do with the great results he got in that role last year and the fact that Girardi loves him in that role.
RayVT
March 17th, 2010 at 4:16 pm
Thanks for the updates SJ, CB & GB! (and others)
I believe SJ is right about Joba needing his MoJo again and finding it in the BP. Also, ST stats mean little but how a player looks or plays or pitches means a lot.
As a side note, I don’t think Ransom was nearly as bad as he looked last year. But 4 HR in ST means zip.
————————————————————
Ransom lead the Yanks in homers and RBI and about 2 or 3 in batting last spring training, too. That’s when the “Bearded Blunder” made his comments about the Yanks being better off with Ransom at third base over Rodriguez.
Even if Chamberlain went to Mo Rivera’s School Of Pitching for a year just to soak up the knowledge about pitching, like hughes did, if he was back in the 2011 rotation, he’d be a very well armed pitcher.
CB, Well at least we’re making progress on Joba’s woes……Last July I brought this up while I was sitting in Anaheim watching him vs. The Angels…..He was all over the place on the hill, he was slow and deliberate at times, gassed and winded when the inning was extended, always shaking off pitches, and just appeared clueless when the Angels turned the heat up on him…..These were clear telling concerns, however here at The LoHud it was viewed as sacrilege….Joba’s problem is Joba, not his shoulder, it’s him ….He either gets with the program or it’s a possible waste of great promise…I for one have never seen him as a consistant starter in the Bigs….
RayVT
March 17th, 2010 at 4:29 pm
GreenBeret7
March 17th, 2010 at 4:25 pm
I heard Nova really turned some heads this ST as well!
————————————————————
Oh, yeah. Nova has really matured in the last year and is learning how to pitch. He’s looked very good. I like him better than Noesi, who’s pretty much the same pitcher. One or the other will get traded.
CB-
“But it seems like this situation is set up for Joba winding up in the pen, the wrong conclusions being drawn from that move, and him remaining there.”
This concerns me as well. I am not at all persuaded that JC will ever be given another chance to be a starter because of the above. Moreover, there may not even be a vacancy in the rotation
next year. I find it hard to believe with the Yankee mentality that they would pass on Lee and let JV walk. Especially if JV has a good year. There is also the possiblity that Andy will want to return. The Yankees have the money and there are many stronger options than PH and JC in the rotation.
I guess I’ll believe it when I see it.
Born skeptic, I guess.
How do they keep Joba stretched out as a reliever ? I don’t see how. 1 or 2 inning stints aren’t going to cut it.
thanks for your response.
Of the top 10 pitchers in the system, NYY may hit big on 3 of them.
=====
GB,
Hit big?
Who do you think are the front runners? Is McCalister in front for now? Who has the best stuff “if healthy” to succeed in the bigs?
A start he made after being a bullpen pitcher. Its like Hughes is in the bullpen and we need a spot starter, can we throw hughes out there? No! You’ll hurt him!
Aceves is in the bullpen and we need a spot starter, can we throw Aceves out there? Sure!
They need to treat aceves like all the other pitchers.
pitchers like joba & hughes are always given a shot as starters first until all doubts are erased before they go to the pen for good
i remember when joba came up & a few baseball managers i think cox was one from the braves said you always go for starters first,pen arms are easy to get
baseball 101
the yankees will not keep joba in the pen unless they are sure he can’t start
the only exception might be if he is the closer in waiting
so wether with us or someone else hughes & joba will be given a chance to start until they prove they can’t handle it without any doubts
baseball 101