Lineup tonight vs. Tampa Bay
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 18, 2010 
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2 short stops and no 3rd baseman? :- P
chad can’t have 2 shortstop
SS at the 1 and 9 spot give new meaning to a “circular” batting order LOL
interesting line up, even w/o the 2 SS…no GTLU winners today
televised anywhere?
televised on YES
Imagine if this was the opening day lineup
Sean – half the teams in baseball don’t field a lineup this good.
Here’s the media index with links:
http://mlb.mlb.com/mediacenter.....bMENUMLBTV
also televised on MLB Network for those like me that do not get YES
Jeter playing 3B…LOL
Can someone explain how Mike Pelfrey @ age 25 with a sinker and ZERO plus secondary pitches putting up a 5.03 era pitching in an insane pitchers park in the NL is a starting pitcher.
But Chamberlain @ age 23 with 2 plus secondary pitches putting up a 4.75 era pitching in Yankees stadium as a right hander in the AL east is not a starting pitcher?
How can the NY media judge these 2 pitchers so differently?
“I guess its all in how you look at those numbers.”
Indeed…
“19 decisions in 43 starts. Not good.
Very high WHIP and walk totals. Also, not good.
Many short (5 innings or less) starts. Not good.”
“Not good” as in…?
Compared against the major league average starter?
Compared against the average Yankee starter?
Compared against the average major league start in his first 43 starts?
You need to define your terms when you say “not good”.
“He’s struggled enough as a starter to make the Yankees re-think their plans. At least for right now.”
That’s an assertion I don’t believe you can prove.
“That’s all anybody is saying.”
That’s all anyone is guessing, is what you mean to say.
Now I acknowledge they might be guessing right. But’s it’s still a guess.
“If they felt he was progressing enough to keep in the rotation no questions asked,”
Again, the “no questions asked” is entirely a qualifier OF YOUR invention. Find me a single person arguing he should be guaranteed a rotation spot no matter what.
It’s possible all the Yankees did was give themselves option rather than having to reserve themselves publicly in case of disaster.
Not sure why that concept is so hard to grasp.
“They are less certain of his starting capabilities than they were a year ago.”
Which is a non-conclusive, relative statement. Does necessarily mean what you’re arguing it means.
“He either alloys those fears or he is in the bullpen. It ain’t that hard to figure out.”
Now THAT is an astute statement.
I’d suggest he might not have to perform better than someone else to mitigate the Yankees fears. He night just have to show them something they want to see.
“Let me twist some NUMBERS for you. Show me a 3rd starter on a AL 2009 PLAYOFF team with numbers SIGNIFICANTLY better than Joba Chamberlain?”
What about 2010?
Lester, Beckett, Lackey, Dice-K.
I don’t know which one will be their #3 but I think those 4 names together are a big reason why the Yanks are going with Vasquez and “???” for the 4-5 slot instead of Joba and Phil.
“How can the NY media judge these 2 pitchers so differently?”
Different contexts?
Hey Chad,
Two days in a row your not doing way at guess the lineup.
JK, because reporting things with an unbiased, educated viewpoint has long been out of the media’s vocabulary?
wait that’s probably not it… hrmm how about…
JK, because Joba is on the Yankee’s so he must be instantly successful or die.
that’s probably a lot closer… maybe…
JK, because the guy that wrote that article has no idea what he’s talking about.
Yep… I think that’s it.
It appears to me everyone is thinking a decision on Joba or Phil has to be made before the season starts for their whole career.
The Yankees have the luxury of not having to rush these guys. Perhaps they learned their lessons from the last few years. Also, having Joba & Phil ready gives them starter depth in case they lose a SP this year. A spot start or 2 by a AAA SP until one of Joba/Phil gets stretched out to fill the roll seems smart.
Joba also provides a backup to Mo if he goes down for some reason. This whole off season seems like a positioning of depth and protection against a couple major injuries.
Whether Joba/Phil are SP in 2010, 2011 or 2012 probably doesn’t matter too much to the Yanks. The Yankees have time on their hands and a lot of options. I like their position.
**** CHAD **** You need to get over your affinity for having two SS for the Yankees in every game!
“What about 2010?”
You got a time machine?
“Lester, Beckett, Lackey, Dice-K.”
I’d agree the first three are likely to surpass 9-6/4.78. But Dice-K? C’mon?
It’s entirely possible, but hardly probable.
Ah, that’s an easy one. The mets have very little depth.
Our starting pitching at the major league level could fill out a 9-man rotation with your #5 starter putting up #3/#4 league average ERA’s.
The mets don’t have that luxury. In the past 2 seasons, they were barely able to fill out a 5-man rotation.
Two words: Livan Hernandez.
Pelfrey…
2006 5.49 era
2007 5.57 era
2008 3.72 era
2009 5.03 era
^^^^^ This guy has been garbage for most of 80 starts and no one questions this guys rotation status in NY? Where are the unnamed scouts? Where is the national media attention? Where are the unnamed baseball officials and GMs stating their oppinions?
JK
March 18th, 2010 at 1:57 pm
Can someone explain how Mike Pelfrey @ age 25 with a sinker and ZERO plus secondary pitches putting up a 5.03 era pitching in an insane pitchers park in the NL is a starting pitcher.
The simple answer is that the team Pelfry plays for sucked. The team Joba plays for is fighting several of the best teams in baseball for a spot in the post season. BTW, Pelfry has potential but he is no Joba.
Lastly, Joba suffers some from unbelieveable expectations too. Joba’s 1st year numbers were movie star like. Anything less than that will be disappointing.
Joba is probably a year away from being an Ace in the starting rotation again. Perhaps sooner. He needs work and confidence again. A relief role will most likely give him that again.
Most days Marcus Thames is in the lineup which tells me that Jamie Hoffman will be headed back to the Dodger system.
“This guy has been garbage for most of 80 starts and no one questions this guys rotation status in NY?”
Are you really this obtuse? Pelfry is viewed as a starter because he’s on the Mets and they have somewhere between minimal and no pitching depth. If the two switched teams, Chamberlain would be a starter and Pelfry would be an afterthought.
“Joba is probably a year away from being an Ace in the starting rotation again.”
Again?
“OK, what was your point about naming a number 3 with better NUMBERS than Joba in 2009 among AL playoff teams”
Thanks for the clarification.
Filtering through my liberal and recreational use of words, I was addressing the perception that Joba Chamberlain wasn’t good in 2009 as a starting pitcher.
He was in fact, likely above average on the pure major league scale, even factoring out he was just 23, had very little professional experience, was on an innings limit, and making 31 of the first 43 starts of his ML career.
The point being, warts, frustration, bad finish, and ALL, he actually had a pretty decent year.
I invited people to compare his numbers to the third starters on AL play-off teams to ILLUSTRATE this point about his relative performance.
Hope that clears that up.
The discussion of 2 shortstops reminds me of an idea that is simultaneously logical and unthinkable: Ramiro Peña should be a routine defensive substitution for Derek Jeter when the Yanks have a substantial lead in the late innings. This is just like putting Gardner in for Damon last year. Being substituted would give Jeter more rest. And, Peña is a better fielder at SS.
The reason it’s unthinkable is that the Yanks would have to acknowledge that Peña is a better fielder. That’s unthinkable because Jeter is a demigod, while Peña is merely a human being.
Aren’t you people sick of this conversation? It’s so played out and has been for 2 years.
Chamberlain had an ERA+ of 90 last year and a 4.82 FIP.
There’s no way you are going to convince me that’s above average or even average for a major league pitcher.
Stuckey, I think you talk just to hear your own voice…This could be due to the fact you lose an audience real fast…..You should seek politics, you have the gift of saying so much that means so little
“Chamberlain had an ERA+ of 90 last year and a 4.82 FIP.
There’s no way you are going to convince me that’s above average or even average for a major league pitcher.”
If you can find those numbers yourself, you can answer this question for yourself very easily.
I’ll be happy to be proven wrong and learn from my error.
YankeesWFAN Marte is showing off his bruise to Mariano, who is laughing hysterically. Guess he’s ok. 6 minutes ago
LOL
“Filtering through my liberal and recreational use of words, I was addressing the perception that Joba Chamberlain wasn’t good in 2009 as a starting pitcher.
He was in fact, likely above average on the pure major league scale, even factoring out he was just 23, had very little professional experience, was on an innings limit, and making 31 of the first 43 starts of his ML career.
The point being, warts, frustration, bad finish, and ALL, he actually had a pretty decent year.”
Stuckey, this stinks of the “If you want to look thin, hang around with fat people” philosophy. Beyond the fact that his ERA belied how bad he really was, you also have to account for the drain he was on the bullpen, which typically needed to get 11-12 outs in a Chamberlain start.
This isn’t to say he sucks, or has no potential, because neither are true, IMO. Just saying that, with a few exceptions, he sucked last year.
“Stuckey, I think you talk just to hear your own voice”
Hard to do on a message forum, don’t you agree?
Do any of you use MLB.TV with the iPhone??
If so, do you know what the deal is with spring training games and not being able to watch any of them on the iPhone?
Stuckey, You certainly must get my drift……
“I’ll be happy to be proven wrong and learn from my error.”
I just did prove you wrong. An ERA+ of 90 and a 4.82 FIP is below average for starting pitchers. He was not an average pitcher last year, he certainly wasn’t above average. He was below average. Not completely terrible but pretty bad.
Oops. made a mistake there. Your #9 pitcher could be putting up league average #3/#4 numbers.
Anyway, I have a feeling that the only ones whose brackets aren’t messed up are those 1,000 Old Dominion fans.
Can Robert morris hold on? Can Florida win in OT?
That would be 3/3 ending up in upsets.
“I’d agree the first three are likely to surpass 9-6/4.78. But Dice-K? C’mon?”
You know we haven’t spent a lot of time talking about the Sox but I’m sure the Yanks hierarchy are when assembling this team.
I’m not sure that Vasquez becomes a Yankee if Lackey doesn’t become Red Sock.
Furthermore, I wouldn’t count out Dice-K just yet. Granted he’s already had some minor issues with his back and neck and he still hasn’t made a start (albeit I believe that’s scheduled in the next few days) BUT…all reports have him working hard this past off season and reporting in much better shape.
And i think we’re making a mistake if we’re comparing Joba to the average back-end starter because when it comes down to it, it’s about where Joba fits on the 2010 Yankees as they compete in the AL east.
This could be another “2.5 team” race but ALL the AL east teams can do damage quick & easy with the bats.
Damm! Already down 1 in my brackett. ND loses to Old Dominion 51-50.
ODU isn’t too shocking, but if Robert Morris holds on, that’s one of the 5-8 biggest upsets in the history of the 64 team format.
Pat M. March 18th, 2010 at 2:16 pm
Stuckey, I think you talk just to hear your own voice…This could be due to the fact you lose an audience real fast…..You should seek politics, you have the gift of saying so much that means so little
==============
Pat M, and others,
(First of all I acknowledge that I am not a prolific poster on here, though I do post 3-4 times per week, and sometimes more.)
I would really like to encourage folks to chill on the negative personal comments!! If you want to disagree with facts, or argue with opinions, that’s great, but don’t get personal or ugly with your comments.
Blogs go downhill when the comments start going in that direction. Let’s keep things focussed on the content of the posts not on personal comments.
And Pat, I’m not picking on you. You just happen to be the most recent poster of a comment like I am talking about.
Thanks Guys (including the fairer sex as well).
SG
“ODU isn’t too shocking, but if Robert Morris holds on, that’s one of the 5-8 biggest upsets in the history of the 64 team format.”
It wouldn’t be if the seeding was correct. There’s no way you can convince me Nova should be a 2 seed
Do any of you use MLB.TV with the iPhone???
If so, do you know what the deal is with spring training games and not being able to watch any of them on the iPhone???
Sorry for the delay guys – been busy packing.
GTLU winner for today, even with two SS in the lineup, is Joe Girardi. Man, no one can keep up with this guy. However congrats to RayVT for having Granderson playing CF and batting in the #2 hole AND for including Winn in his lineup at all.
“I’m not sure that Vasquez becomes a Yankee if Lackey doesn’t become Red Sock.”
I wonder about this. Beyond liking the idea that that the Yankees don’t react to the Red Sox, I find Cashman’s stated reasons for making the Vazquez deal pretty reasonable. I truly believe the wear and tear of 2009 on Sabathia, Burnett and Pettitte and the slightest uncertainty surrounding Hughes/Chamberlain were at the forefront of Cashman’s mind when he pulled the trigger.
If Nova falls, I might as well stop looking at my bracket. I have them going to the elite eight. Who is this Morris team and why didnt the EXPERTS have them as a team to watch out for?
Villanova really needs to buck up.
I went with them in my final four in my big money bracket after someone told me to rethink Duke (even though Duke has a K)
When Girardi names a 5th starter will this debate die or just keep on going?
I’m hoping for the latter and looking forward to March 25th alot.
I should add RayVT had Winn batting 7th, but at DH instead of LF. Good job, RayVT.
“It wouldn’t be if the seeding was correct. There’s no way you can convince me Nova should be a 2 seed”
Off their recent play, probably not. Still, it’s a huge upset of it goes down.
Sportsgeek….I didn’t think I was anywhere over the top with The Stuckey Man as he’s pretty thick skinned….However I do agree with your premise about the negative engery flow and the resulting comments…..Thank you for the heads up…..
I have Villanova winning, so….yeah, I hope they don’t fall, too.
Uh oh Erica, you don’t have 1000 on this bracket do you?
Worst of all. I left my brackets at home. So i cant remember which teams i ended up picking after all the flip flops. I guess ill have to root for a tie and a do over tomorrow.
Nova just tied it at 55!
Nova is only down 2 with still 2 minutes to go. BYU-FLA headed to double OT tied at 81. Great game! I really hope Texas beats Wake Forest tonight. Would love to see them take on Kentucky in a round 2 game.
Go Rutgers!
What a joke this Rob Morris game is!
8 straight FTs to tie the game.
They’ve been struggling all game (Villanova) and they’ve been bailed out by the referees.
Same problem with my IPhone and mlb tv
pat,
You want the debate to continue?
Patrick
March 18th, 2010 at 2:41 pm
Uh oh Erica, you don’t have 1000 on this bracket do you?
**********
No- I am in one that was $20 an entry and another that was $10. But the $20 one has about 200 people and could be a nice windfall.
Nothing quite like the ugliness of the Colts failure to score a touchdown from the 4 yard like that cost me a $5,000 win in my superbowl box
I had Old Dominion – yay! I have Villanova going to the Final Four – they’d better not lose. I have BYU…
don’t be worrying about your brackets…’cuse is going to win it all anyway!
Robert Morris just took a 2 point lead.
Wait – there was already a game, and I’m already one down, having picked ND??????? Say it’s ain’t so. I thought tonight was the first game.
I do remember having Murray State taking down Vandy.
This Robert Morris team is exactly why March Madness is a huge hit. What a game.
Oh sorry, that’s what I was referring to with the “1000″ question. Didn’t remember that it was actually 5 g’s
I’m in 2 brackets as well – $25 and $5. But the $25 one is only 15 people. Still not a bad amount of money.
I, too, am done with Phil & Joba. In fact, I really wish they’d change their names. Somehow.
“The point being, warts, frustration, bad finish, and ALL, he actually had a pretty decent year.”
My response: “Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how’d you like the play?”
You asked what No. 3 AL 2009 Playoff team pitcher had significantly better numbers than Joba, suggesting that by the numbers, Joba wasn’t a lot worse than the No.3 pitchers on AL 2009 playoff teams.
Pettitte was a No. 3 2009 playoff starter and Joba can’t tie Pettitte’s laces, numbers be damned. The comparison you called for by the numbers exposes Joba’s flaws; it’s a case where the sum of his parts is just not indicative of the whole. IMO, you’re inviting people to arrive at a dubious conclusion by resort to numbers alone. And that’s just my humble opinion of course.
Roger, I’m just hoping that it works exactly like it did last season where you can watch every game on the iPhone…i can deal with Spring Training, but Regular season is a MUST.
Is there any reason why they’re not doing a look-in on the Nova game?
I have Murray State as well….
Poor Rob Morris. Oh well, no 10 straight free throws for them.
Patrick
March 18th, 2010 at 2:46 pm
Oh sorry, that’s what I was referring to with the “1000? question. Didn’t remember that it was actually 5 g’s
**************
Its okay. I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t still resentful of that…
Okay, now they’ve figured it out.
Doreen – 2010 GTLU
March 18th, 2010 at 2:46 pm
I, too, am done with Phil & Joba. In fact, I really wish they’d change their names. Somehow.
*******************
Lets call them Ernie & Bert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
pat
March 18th, 2010 at 2:39 pm
When Girardi names a 5th starter will this debate die or just keep on going?
I’m hoping for the latter and looking forward to March 25th alot.
***************************
Personally, I’m hoping for the former.
Nova to overtime….
Just watched the movie HOOSIERS this weekend. I think all these cinderella coaches had their players measure the rim and let them know nothing has changed.
Erin -
That might work!
Same body types and all.
Florida looks like they are about to get knocked out in the first round. And thats why the committee should have had Miss State instead. What a waste.
As to this #5 comp:
If it was truely an open comp, Ace would be in the lead with his 10 innings and 1 run. It’s not an open comp though, it’s Phil vs. Joba.
Phil is winning and unless he stinks it up in his last starts, he’s the #5.
Ace has pitch his way back on the ML team in the swing man role he played so well last year.
Joba will be in the pen to start the year and unless one of the top 5 starters gets hurt befor the middle of May, Joba will not be starting in 2010. My guess is that he will have more saves than starts.
If Villanova loses, it will be the second year in a row that I was totally out by the first day! Sigh.
Doreen – 2010 GTLU
March 18th, 2010 at 2:53 pm
Erin -
That might work! Same body types and all.
**************
Except I am Erica
Joba = Ernie
Phil = Bert
Goodbye Rob Morris.
They did their best, but the referees would have none of it.
Villanova should not last long in this tournament.
Startin’ to look like they aren’t going to lose Doreen. Incredible effort by the Rboert Morris kids. They were either tied or ahead for the last 35 minutes of regulation.
Sorry Erica.
When I read fast, I see the “Er” and move on. Haste makes waste.
Debating about sending Joba or Hughes to AAA is pointless.
It’s not going to happen. Let’s move on and discuss something else, like which one of them might be better suited for the rotation. That topic, though, is pretty dead, too.
Maybe we can focus on Swisher and Nick Johnson – who should be in the #2 hole? Johnson’s OBP is higher, but I fear the double plays. Swisher strikes out a lot and has a high OBP himself. He’s a bit faster.
Could be fun to flip them around here and there. I want to see anything but Joba and Hughes debate. Please, baseball gods, grant me this on LoHud, even if its for a few minutes.
Doreen,
The second Nova took it to O.T.. 12 oclock struck. They escaped.
Doreen – 2010 GTLU
March 18th, 2010 at 2:57 pm
Sorry Erica.
When I read fast, I see the “Er” and move on. Haste makes waste.
**************
Its okay, everyone does it
And in all fairness, Erin and I are eerily similar
Frank, thanks. I’ll be glad if Nova wins, but it’s also great that it was a closely fought game.
(Not so good if it’s any indication that Villanova just doesn’t have it in them to win the whole thing -which I foolishly set them up to do.) I picked relatively few upsets, but saved the big one for last.
Erica – always OPPC
March 18th, 2010 at 2:48 pm
Doreen – 2010 GTLU
March 18th, 2010 at 2:46 pm
I, too, am done with Phil & Joba. In fact, I really wish they’d change their names. Somehow.
*******************
Lets call them Ernie & Bert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*********************
I am 100% behind this idea
Chas Chew:
You just dropped 4 paragraphs making a point about a point which you deemed pointless. What’s the point?
CR9,
Im at work not watching the game. Were they obvious ticky tack fouls?
BTW,
Sam Houston st. up 8-3 on Baylor. Didnt know there was a S.H.S. that excisted.. I have Baylor going to 16 i believe.
“Florida looks like they are about to get knocked out in the first round. And thats why the committee should have had Miss State instead. What a waste.”
Oh come on, that’s just absurd. Florida hung with a 7 seed for 2 overtimes, I think they proved they deserved a spot in the tournament.
m
Oops- that came out wrong. Former not latter.
I’m so ready for this debate to end that I would be willing to trade one of them to make it stop.
Frank:
If I had a finger, I’d point it at you pointedly and nod my head. Good point. Five points for you!
S.O.S.
Yes, most of them were.
Rob Morris has 3 starters fouled out.
Scottie Reynolds is 1 of 14 from the field with 16 points.
Usually, the underdogs get the breaks.
Morris back down 3 with enough time.
Who would be Ernie and who would be Bert??
“Average ERA+ is set to be 100; a score above 100 indicates that the pitcher performed better than average, below 100 indicates worse than average.”
So 90 is not great. I tried to find the FIP average but it was not forthcoming.
charlestonchew, i doubt the 5th starter debate will be going away any time soon.
Imagine if Aceves got it though!!! I’d like to think that, eventually, one of Hughes, Joba, or Aceves would be used as trade bait, especially if they all pan out as starters.
Roger
March 18th, 2010 at 3:03 pm
Who would be Ernie and who would be Bert??
*********
Joba = Ernie
Hughes = Bert
They even look a little like them
I was just checking out the GTLU rules.
This is my favorite.
“6. If your handle is a body part, a bodily function, or a euphemism for a body part or function, I will ignore you and ban you. ”
And as head of the “secret police”, I approve!
That team has some fight in them. Lost 3 starters and still in the game. Amazing stuff.
Okay not comfortable with the Ernie & Bert pairing of Joba & Phil.
How about Butch & the Sundance Kid? Laurel & Hardy?
Roger
March 18th, 2010 at 3:03 pm
Who would be Ernie and who would be Bert??
************************
Joba is Ernie, Phil is Bert
Thick-skinned, thick-headed… whatever…
New Post: Aceves scheduled to start Saturday
m -
Butch & Sundance – that’s good, too.
IF we’re talking Paul Newman & Robert Redford, it could be a reach, though.
Then I’m voting for Ernie in the bullpen and I want Bert in the rotation
“I just did prove you wrong. An ERA+ of 90 and a 4.82 FIP is below average for starting pitchers.”
If I’m wrong, may I ask for the courtesy of linking me to the evidence?
Not doubting, I’d just like to see the margin of my error myself…
Is this game on tv ? T
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