Spring Training Game 18: Yankees at Astros
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 20, 2010 
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YANKEES
Brett Gardner CF
Nick Johnson DH
Mark Teixeira 1B
Alex Rodriguez 3B
Robinson Cano 2B
Marcus Thames LF
Jon Weber RF
Ramiro Pena SS
Mike Rivera C
RHP Alfredo Aceves
ASTROS
Jason Bourgeois CF
Kaz Matsui 2B
Hunter Pence RF
Carlos Lee LF
Chris Johnson 3B
Cory Sullivan DH
Chris Shelton 1B
Tommy Manzella SS
Humberto Quintero C
RHP Brett Myers
TIME: 1:05 p.m.
WEATHER: This might be the nicest day yet. Perfectly blue sky. Temperatures in the 70s. Light breeze blowing out to right.
UMPIRES: HP Larry Vanover, 1B Mike Reilly, 2B Jeff Nelson, 3B Laz Diaz
ON THE LINE: Alfredo Aceves is making another spring start, trying to build on a terrific start to spring training… Marcus Thames is in the lineup again, trying to put up some numbers to win the last spot on the Yankees bench… Obviously the Yankees have to find out whether they can play a spring game without Marty Foster umpiring.
UPDATE, 1:08 p.m.: First-pitch bunt single from Gardner. Perfectly placed down the third-base line. That’s his third bunt hit of the spring.
UPDATE, 1:09 p.m.: And just like that, Gardner is picked off first. Snap throw from the catcher.
UPDATE, 1:27 p.m.: A few notes from this afternoon’s session with Joe Girardi:
• Phil Hughes will pitch in relief of A.J. Burnett on Sunday. Joba Chamberlain will start on Monday.
• Girardi didn’t have much to say about the decision to start Weber over Hoffmann: “Web’s been playing well,” Girardi said. “Hoffmann is going to play today.”
• Girardi said Kevin Russo wouldn’t need a full season at shortstop to convince the Yankees he can play there, but they would like him to keep playing the position occasionally: “We want to see him play shortstop more,” Girardi said. “We know that he can do second and third, but we’re just trying to get a look at him at short.”
• The Yankees have not eliminated anyone from the fifth-starter competition after last night. “We haven’t had a chance to talk about,” Girardi said. “We’re going to sit down and talk in the next couple of days, decide what the next plan of action is.”
UPDATE, 1:40 p.m.: How often do you see a guy triple to left? Gardner just did it, right down the line in the third inning. He’s at third with one out and the Yankees leading 1-0 on a second-inning homer by Robinson Cano.
UPDATE, 1:49 p.m.: Rodriguez drives in two more and the Yankees are up 3-0.
UPDATE, 2:04 p.m.: Back-to-back two-out doubles from the bottom of the order, one from Ramiro Pena and one from Mike Rivera, have given the Yankees a 4-0 lead in the fourth. The Yankees have six hits off Brett Myers: Five extra-base hits and Gardner’s bunt single.
UPDATE, 2:14 p.m.: Hit batter, stolen base and an RBI double have put Houston on the board. That’s the second run Aceves has allowed this spring.
UPDATE, 2:16 p.m.: RBI single by Hunter Pence makes it 4-2. He’s allowed two runs and this is already the worst outing of the spring for Aceves.
UPDATE, 2:25 p.m.: After his second double of the game, Rodriguez is out of the game for pinch runner David Winfree.
UPDATE, 2:31 p.m.: The Yankees have made all of their changes except at catcher and right field. Melancon getting loose in the pen.
UPDATE, 2:32 p.m.: Sorry, Ramiro Pena is still out there too. Russo went out to play second instead of short.
UPDATE, 2:40 p.m.: An infield single has loaded the bases and chased Aceves from the game with one out in the fifth. It’s still 4-2 Yankees. Mark Melancon is in to try to escape.
UPDATE, 2:42 p.m.: Melancon got a ground ball to short, but the Yankees couldn’t turn two and a run scored on the fielder’s choice.
UPDATE, 2:46 p.m.: Aceves’ line is complete: 4.1 IP, 5 H, 5 R, 5 ER, 1 BB, 2 K, 1 HBP. He threw 74 pitches, 48 strikes. By far his worst start of the spring. Meanwhile, Melancon is also struggling, having allowed back-to-back, two-out base hits that led to three runs and a 6-4 Astros lead.
UPDATE, 3:00 p.m.: The rest of the Yankees changes: Russo moves to short, Nunez in to play second, Cervelli at catcher and Gorecki in right.
the game is on mlb.tv
Repost – Diddn’t see the new thread.
Don’t know if this was discussed previously, and if it was, sorry.
But yesterday on XM there was an animated discussion about Joe Mauer’s contract negotiations with the Twins. Apparently there has been a hick up and the resolution people expected sooner rather than later may now be in doubt. Factors mentioned included the amount of money Joe is expecting, which was put somewhere between 20 mill and A-Rod, and the recent spate of injuries to key Twins players (Nathan, Morneau).
The comment was made that the Twins may now have to face the fact that Joe wants to be part of a winner and if the Twins are out of it early in a tough division (for them), they may trade him. One talking head asked about that and the response was that Cashman had already inquired.
Has anyone else heard anything about this?
HALLELUJAH no Marty Foster!
Backbench
I heard that he wanted around Tex money yesterday ;/ I really hope he stays, but if he doesn’t, he can’t go to Boston.
So the Yankees got rid of Jose Molina to placate Bud Selig?
BG drops a bunt single on the first pitch of the game.
Brett Gardner, bunt single!
BG got picked off at first by the catcher
then gets picked off. sigh
Carl is a little quicker than I it seems.
Gardner laid down the sickest bunt to get on, but then gets picked off.
Looks like Carl Crawford is gonna be a yankee in 2011 B)
give it, then take it away, who pick him off lol
Girardi has given Marcus Thames more than his share of opportunities. Kevin Russo should have been given time as a corner OF to help his cause to stick.
blake March 20th, 2010 at 1:06 pm
Carl is a little quicker than I it seems.
My bad, you can do updates. I’ll just watch
Carl,
Nah, I just thought that was funny we typed the same thing twice in a row.
Johnson and Tex walk
If Mauer hits the market and the Yanks want to keep him away from Boston it’s going to take Hughes, Montero, Jose Ramirez and two two other players like Romine and McCallister.
That’ll be what the Twins want and they’ll get something like that.
Where can I watch this game for FREEEE?
A-rod gidp inning over
CB
I was thinking Golson and Mitre
Please keep up the mancrush on Gardner. When he hits the baseball at least 150 feet, please be sure to let us know.
You guys are funny!
Gardner needs to learn how to become a proficient base stealer, and it starts with not getting picked off first. He seems to let that happen far too often, and that’s a factor of concentration/attention. He doesn’t read either the pitcher or the catcher effectively.
While he may be the CF or LF this year, I fully expect a full-court press for Crawford next offseason if he’s not signed to an extension. And frankly, who gives up their first real opportunity at Free Agency in their prime?
2011 OF: Crawford, Granderson, and possibly Swisher in RF.
Anyway, this is 2010, and we still have lots of ST to go.
Go Aceves! Go Yanks!
CB…Too much talent to surrender
Gardner has the worst baserunning instincts for any fast runner in the world. Ask Joe Mauer.
Throw in Thames and Gaudin and that might seal it as an alternative package.
Let’s hope the Twins sign Maeur. The Twins signing Maeur is by far the best outcome for the yankees.
As an aside, for very unfortunate reasons, the Red Sox ability to make a big trade plummeted this week due to the horrible news about Ryan Westmoreland. After Buchholz he was the most attractive player they had to trade.
Aceves strikes out Kaz Matsui on a change. 2 outs.
I don’t even praise my son as much as you all do. He clearly isn’t as good as any of you think he is. When you are celebrating a guy bunting on base because he lacks the ability to hit the ball out of the infield, that’s when you know you have a career pinch runner.
Aceves doesnt have hisgood command this game. Lots of balls so far.
A-Rod with a great back handed stop. Shows off his arm, 3 outs.
CB,
How long is Westmoreland out for?
Cano just crushed a HR to dead center
Cano hits a solo homerun to dead center.
For a package of cheap young talent like that, the Twins had better be adding Span and Cuddyer to the deal.
Cano unloaded on that pitch. Gorgeous swing.
I apologize on behalf of my ex-wife. She has a bit of a drinking problem. I think it may be time for another rehab stint.
Go Brett!
LGY,
No one can say for sure how long westmoreland is out. The problem he had was fortunately caught early – it could have killed him. Unfortunately, it was in a really bad part of his brain.
It’s unclear if he’ll have any long term neuroligical complications from the surgery itself.
Wow. I was not aware his surgery was that serious.
haha. Looks like I gave away who Gardner’s Dad is.
LGY:
“It’s not known when the 19-year-old prospect will be ready to compete again, but it’s excellent to hear that everything went smoothly with the brain procedure.”
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports......s.html.php
Gameday seems to be updating after each batter today.
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday.....b_houmlb_1
Westmoreland may never play again.
The hope is, he hasn’t suffered any long term damage.
Playing again isn’t even on the radar right now.
Just a horrible story.
The Twins aren’t trading Mauer. The deal will eventually get done. Makes too much sense for both sides.
The game is on FS Houston for you direct tv people (CH 678). Cano’s homer was a SHOT!!! Straight away CF
I feel bad for Thames, he’s clearly pressing and times a running out for him.
On a happier note, cano is taking that leap this year so all you Cano haters out there better get ready for it.
I figure everyone will stop overrating Gardner late April when he is hitting .180/.220/.280
CB,
you have Westmoreland ahead of Casey Kelly?
On an aside, how do A-ball players like those 2 get graded so high on prospect lists? Shouldn’t top 35-50 prospects primarily be reserved for guys who have excelled at AA first?
I feel extremely bad for the westmoreland kid. Red Sox or not, its a terrible thing and let’s hope it doesn’t cost him his career or worse..
I’d rather have Westmoreland. I just don’t think you can make that much of Kelly’s season given the small sample and the fact that his stuff is good but not great. Kelly is a good prospect but really doesn’t have elite pitching tools.
Sure, Brett Gardner can win an open competition and become a starter. Just get rid of Damon, Matsui, Cabrera, Austin Jackson, Xavier Nady, Jerry Hairston, Shelley Duncan and even Eric Hinske–and then bring in a bunch of guys who can’t hit their IQ.
Mauer will get that extension from the Twins. He’s not going anywhere.
Right now, Westmoreland and his family is just hoping for quality of life. It’s a real pity that it happens to anyone, but, especially a 19 year old with his entire life to look forward to.
Gardner with a triple down the 3B line. Hit a fastball hard the other way
BG triples down the third base line
GGBG with the triple
You guys are making too big a deal out of the surgery, according to medical websites most people make a full neurological recovery from the surgery.
Lord that guy can run. He leans into his turns like a speed skater.
Did he get picked off 3rd?
did he get picked off yet?
gardner on base with nick up gives pitcher an awful lot to think about.
gardner on base with nick up gives pitcher an awful lot to think about.
People still sobbing about Brett Gardner?
I really hope Westmoreland is okay. As I saw someone say on another board, I hope that one day, I can root for him to fail on the field – because it means he would have gotten through all this okay.
how often do you see a guy triple to left?? Getting that tingly feeling all the way up my leg.
nick johnson can draw a walk in his sleep
“On an aside, how do A-ball players like those 2 get graded so high on prospect lists? ”
That’s a completely different story and a very good question.
My most recent favorite Sox prospecting issue. Jim Callis has been saying for months now that Jose Iglesias is the best defensive shortstop in all the minors before he’s even played a game. Callis is confident saying that because all the scouts and scouting reports tell him Iglesias is the best.
Clearly the SS of the future for the Sox – no doubt Iglesias stops the carousel. Callis has been commenting on how he regrets not pushing for Iglesias to be ranked higher on the BA top 100.
In his last chat someone asked Callis about Hecheverria – and this is great – Callis says he couldn’t really comment because he hasn’t spoken with any scouts about Hecheverria and hasn’t seen any scouting reports.
How great is that? Everything you hear about Hecheverria is that he’s considerably better than Iglesias – that Iglesias was clearly the #2 SS in Cuba and had been for years. Callis has studied extensive scouting reports on Iglesias – enough for him to confidently state that Iglesias is the best defensive SS in the minors and one of the top 100 prospects in baseball before playing a game.
But the guy who is supposed to be better than Iglesias? Callis hasn’t seen a scouting report on him. That’s convenient.
Buchholz as a first guy and Westmoreland as a third guy in a trade with a high floor guy as the second prospect would have been be a very good, diverse trade package.
Rod doubles
Cano with a risp
UPDATE: Brett Gardner didn’t get picked off first base, he just opted out of staying on the field.
Cano with an ugly swing on a curve to strike out
“You guys are making too big a deal out of the surgery, according to medical websites most people make a full neurological recovery from the surgery.”
Nope. Your looking at the generic problem and prognosis. Many time the problem he has doesn’t even require full surgery to fix.
The problem itself that Westmoreland had isn’t that serious as long as it’s found early. Westmoreland is very lucky to be alive as he was having symptoms. Fortunately the problem was found.
Unfortunately the malformation was in his brain stem – which is amongst the worst locations possible. His surgery lasted 5 hours. There’s a reason why.
That last swing by Cano was as ugly as the home run swing was beautiful. You don’t see many of his swings look that bad.
Johnson scored from first? I thought people said it would take 3 hits to score him from first?
CB,
that is very interesting, indeed
Hecheverria should be better than Iglesias at SS because he can hit well. Defensively, I read somewhere that he played 2B because of Iglesias so I guess Hecheverria should be able to play SS just fine.
Westmoreland is out of ICU so it should be a good news.
Gardner seriously needs to pick up at a game.
Gardner hit close to .400 in Spring Training last year. He lost his job within three weeks once the season started. In the post season he was brutal and was ZERO for the World Series. Go Gardy–make your lovers tingly.
I would think that there’s a huge difference between Westmoreland leading a pretty normal life and being a quality ballplayer. Brain injuries do a lot to degrade a ball players skills. Just ask Don Zimmer.
HolyYankee!
I think it was the other way around.
“How often do you see a guy triple to left?”
Not sure what this means. Are triples supposed to go somewhere else?
“Defensively, I read somewhere that he played 2B because of Iglesias so I guess Hecheverria should be able to play SS just fine.”
I think it it was the opposite. I believe Hecheverria pushed Iglesias off SS to 2b on the cuban teams they played for. Which suggests that his coaches may have thought Hecheverria was the better glove – or at least a player so overall superior that he shouldn’t be the one to move.
Not sure. I haven’t bothered to read the scouting reports.
I’m listening to the Houston radio broadcast with Milo Hamilton doing the play by play. A real treat to the ears.
All I need is a beer and a hot dog!
Hey everyone, some idiot named “Choo Choo” on an internet message board has decreed that Brett Gardner can’t play.
Maybe he should just quit the game now and go home?
Has Aceves really only thrown 11 pitches through 3 innings? That what GameDay says…
Glad Westmoreland’s surgery was successful..
Does anybody know what a typical recovery time would be for his condition?
I’ve heard “long and complicated” but naturally, fans of his are hoping he can get back on the field doing what he loves as soon as possible.
that’s**
“I believe Hecheverria pushed Iglesias off SS to 2b on the cuban teams they played for.”
———–
I believe you are correct. Hecheverria’s agent used that specifically in contract negotiations.
“If Iglesias is better than sliced bread at $8M, and my client is better… pay up!”
Pena doesn’t suck.
Not sure what this means. Are triples supposed to go somewhere else?
i think it’s because left field is a short throw away from third base, you don’t see many triples to left.
Isn’t Hecheverria a typeface/font ?
How nice is it to have the option to pick the utility man between two good young players like Pena and Russo? They both bring very different dimensions to the team. Over the course of the season I bet they’ll both contribute.
Growing up in the midwest, there was nothing like listening to the Tiger games with Ernie Harwell and George Kell and the White Sox with Milo Hamilton and Bob Elson. Only at night could you hope to pick up the Yankee games on 770AM.
blake
It’s hard to get excited about the NIT, but that was a good game. Back to the yard work.
“Has Aceves really only thrown 11 pitches through 3 innings? That what GameDay says…”
IIRC GameDay is messed up with pitch counts through ST. Walks are four pitches, Ks are three, and balls put in play are one pitch, no matter how many actual pitches the pitcher threw.
just for comparisons sake, i know ST stats don’t matter but
Melky Cabrera: .324/.405
Brett Gardner: .241/.333
It’s true that triples are frequently hit to LF because it’s a short field to third.
But that’s not only a testament to gardner’s speed – but also to Carlos Lee’s speed or lack there of.
He is such an awful defensive player. Just made another gem as the ball popped out of his glove.
Kudos to Choo Choo. Best post of the day.
choochoo
March 20th, 2010 at 1:33 pm
Sure, Brett Gardner can win an open competition and become a starter. Just get rid of Damon, Matsui, Cabrera, Austin Jackson, Xavier Nady, Jerry Hairston, Shelley Duncan and even Eric Hinske–and then bring in a bunch of guys who can’t hit their IQ.
“Johnny Cash
March 20th, 2010 at 2:02 pm
just for comparisons sake, i know ST stats don’t matter but
Melky Cabrera: .324/.405
Brett Gardner: .241/.333″
*******************************
I know right?
Melky Cabrera: .324/.405
Colin Curtis: .545/.643
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....titte.html
Andy Pettitte, Modern Yankee Heroes story.
Since ST stats don’t matter, what’s the point of posting them,
Melky is also outhitting Arod and Tex this Spring.
Your point?
Kenny,
You can always tell when school is out in the game thread. Posts become more mindless from some.
They stick out like a sore thumb.
Melky is playing in the JV league
I don’t actually have a count on Aceves, but it’s certainly more than 11 pitches.
Triples to left don’t happen often because it’s the shortest throw to third.
Pena/Russo are nice options, but, by next year, you’ll need to add Eduardo Nunez to the mix and shortly after that, Jose Pirela, Luis Nunez and Corbin Joseph will be close to ready.
Nice morning today. Aceves is showing well. Too bad it’s all for naught.
Why are the losers still ragging on the players? Grow up.
Albert Pujols is hitting a robust .238 this spring.
The Cards should trade him now!
Chad,
I can’t believe you had to answer that. I guess that the only triples that person’s ever seen are of the Manny Ramirez in LF kind.
Westmoreland did not have a brain injury. A cavernous malformation can lead to death and complications but it doesn’t impede activity.
You guys are blowing it out of proportion. Almost 100% of people who undertake surgery are fine.
Carlos Lee must have muffed that one pretty badly.
Keeping Melky was not in the cards. You find a taker for a 4OF making $3M, you say, “Thank you.”
Gardner will meet a similar fate. So don’t worry, you guys won’t have to watch him forever.
“I guess that the only triples that person’s ever seen are of the Manny Ramirez in LF kind.’
Why are you ragging on a player?
lol that is nasty. eating that cake haha
That’s hit by Pence is going to count as a run against Aceves and an RBI for Pence but that was a completely preventable run. It never should have scored.
Pence didn’t hit that ball well at all. But Thames is a horrible defensive player and that was a great example why. He must have misjudged the ball off the bat and was too slow to make the play. That was a very catchable ball and Thames just couldn’t make the play.
Thames won’t get an error but that’s a play that is more costly than most errors.
If the defense is there, what kind of season offensively from Gardner do you guys think it would take to deter the Yanks from going after Crawford?
Are you saying “that person’s” a playa?
Are the Yankees REALLY considering keeping Marcus Thames? Really?
Can anybody give one reason to keep him? Bat. Nothing there. Defense? Nonexistant.
Except when he comes to watch, he comes to play.
Thanks Chad and Becca! 11 didn’t really seem right.
So is it safe for me to assume that my Gameday operator must be on a break and Kaz Matsui has not been up for the last 14 minutes?
Jerkface
March 20th, 2010 at 2:10 pm
Westmoreland did not have a brain injury. A cavernous malformation can lead to death and complications but it doesn’t impede activity.
You guys are blowing it out of proportion. Almost 100% of people who undertake surgery are fine.
————————————————————
Injury/defect/disease….what difference does it make? How many of those “almost 100%” were professional athletes?
‘Albert Pujols is hitting a robust .238 this spring.
The Cards should trade him now!’
But then we’d lose Randy Winn
yo am i dead?
I like how Tex, Jeter, & Alex are rounding into form. It was neat to hear that Jeter mentioned the other day that something just clicked.
Carl
March 20th, 2010 at 2:06 pm
Melky is playing in the JV league
====
You gonna knock Melky, as if he’s a hitter reflective of a JV quality league – and by that we’re supposed to infer that Gardner is better equipped to hit in the MAJOR league?
This is petty, but it’s also ridiculous.
Here are two facts for you:
No. 1 – Melky was traded – his success or lack of it doesn’t impact the Yankees.
Here’s No. 2 for you: He’s a better hitter than Brett Gardner.
NVM…. 2 posts wont go thru..dunno why.
anyway…Gaudin stays in a mix for 5th starter job? Quit fooling around already. It is Aceves or Mitre.
He had a 5 hour surgery for a malformation on his brain stem. That is a significant and serious surgery.
Even if it went smoothly, there is no guarantee his motor functions, including eyesight, will return to pre-surgery levels.
Wow, peoples. No need to go to either extreme. It’s a serious deal, but the prognosis is good.
Did anyone else just see that play in the hoops game???
Ball bounced off ref’s foot to stay in play, Villinova hit a 3.
Bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes March 20th, 2010 at 2:22 pm
Carl
March 20th, 2010 at 2:06 pm
Melky is playing in the JV league
====
You gonna knock Melky, as if he’s a hitter reflective of a JV quality league – and by that we’re supposed to infer that Gardner is better equipped to hit in the MAJOR league?
This is petty, but it’s also ridiculous.
Here are two facts for you:
No. 1 – Melky was traded – his success or lack of it doesn’t impact the Yankees.
Here’s No. 2 for you: He’s a better hitter than Brett Gardner.
I don’t care for BG or Melky. Don’t know why you’re up in arms over it.
The Gardner haters are out in force. Look, Gardner isn’t an All-Star and perhaps someone will be proven right and Gardner will end up on the bench by year end…but honestly, we don’t need an All-Star at every level.
I’m not saying the Yankees don’t have some nice options out there…but I don’t think the Yankees don’t need to go get, say…a Jermaine Dye.
Nick,
There was a great program on Fox Sports (LA) last night. “Bet you can’t do that again”. They try to recreate all these unbelievable sports plays. They concluded that Randy Johnson hitting that poor bird is close to impossible to do.
Then there was a basketball player falling out of bounds on the wing. They actually calculated the angle, rate of release, and the arc(?). Took him 5 times but he did it. It was a famous college buzzer beater, don’t know who it was. But Cuttino Mobley was feeding him the ball in the re-creation.
Was a neat show, though.
“You guys are blowing it out of proportion. Almost 100% of people who undertake surgery are fine.”
What’s your evidence? I’ve already looked it up so I know what the complication rate is and I can’t see anyone trading for him other than as a pure upside play as the 5th guy in a deal.
And the original question that started this conversation wasn’t whether Westmoreland would “recover” – the question was what his trade value is.
In other words you’d have to have evidence not only for regular recovery but also for recovery to prior levels of athletic ability e.g. hand eye coordination. What’s your evidence for that – and the honus of evidence for this is on the side suggesting he’ll recover and it’s not a serious problem.
Your confusing the generic problem with the specific problem Westmoreland had. The location in the brain makes a huge difference.
What GM is going to just assume he’ll be fine?
His trade value – which is completely secondary but the original issue being discussed in this thread – has plummeted.
It would be hard to recreat what just happened in Providence — they might need a Rockette to play the part of the ref.
I hope Ace gives up a Slam.
Dioner Navarro leaves field on a cart with a lower leg injury after homeplate collision with Jacques Jones.
Guess he can’t
I thought Westmoreland’s surgery was slightly more routine – although routine and brain surgery are probably mutually exclusive.
I am really praying hard for this kid.
pat,
It took every good fiber in my body to not laugh about that.
That karma’s a mean *itch.
The length of the surgery has no bearing on his brain functions.
Here is what the Chief of Neurosurgery has to say on the matter:
“The risks are pretty small, meaning that the chances are, he’ll go through this and recover just fine,” said Curtis Doberstein, the hospital’s interim chairman of neurosurgery.
“The overwhelming odds are, without any complications, he should recover fine, and should be able to resume his activities as a professional athlete. If everything goes well, this should not preclude him returning to a professional baseball career.”
The malformation itself often does not impede physical ability except in certain cases and often has no symptoms whatsoever.
The surgery, unless botched, is not going to destroy his ability to move around. No doctor would do that.
Kind of on the fence about this SM/Nova game.
On the one hand I want to see the underdog win.
On the other hand, the sooner they lose, the sooner UH can try to get their hands on their assistant coach and that Aussie pipeline.
“Dioner Navarro leaves field on a cart with a lower leg injury after homeplate collision with Jacques Jones.”
what goes around comes around?
Melancon had the DP grounder. The defense screwed it up. Too bad.
I am not in your guys stupid trade argument. Leave me out of that aspect.
A lot of “should’s”.
Bottom line, when it comes to the brain, nobody knows for sure.
There isn’t a neurosurgeon in the world who would say otherwise.
This kid didn’t have a knee scope. He had brain surgery.
When the “should’s” and “if’s” are replaced with the firm facts on his recovery, then you can begin discussing whether he will be able to resume his career.
Hopefully, he can.
I missed the Gardner triple. How did he leg a triple out of bunt hit down the 3B line?
I think I’ll take the word of the expert on brain surgery.
m, get onboard with St. Mary’s …..
The expert who said there were overwhelming odds in Westmorelands favor to continue his baseball career.
It’s kind of cold to be talking about a kid’s career when he’s not even out of the woods yet.
I think his family would settle for him to resume regular activity.
And if he can do that, everything else, including baseball, should fall into place.
“Hauck et al analyzed the natural history of symptomatic brainstem cavernomas and outcome after surgical resection in 44 patients who presented with symptomatic brainstem cavernomas between 1995 and 2007. They found that after a first neurologic event, the median event-free interval was 2 years, with an annual event rate of 42%; after a second neurologic event, the median event-free interval was only 5 months, with a monthly event rate of 8%. In 95% of the patients, surgery prevented further events over a median follow-up of 11 months; the postoperative event rate was 5% per year in the first 2 years and 0% thereafter. The authors therefore suggested surgical resection for symptomatic brainstem cavernomas to prevent patients’ functional decline owing to recurrent events. ”
So Westmoreland has a 5 risk for rebleeding over the next year. He also has a 5% risk for having neurologic complications due to the surgery itself.
If you think that’s not serious, well that’s up to you.
Please show me the surgeon who leaves the OR and makes a public pronouncement about surgery going poorly, especially on an athlete.
And the conversation in this thread was centered on the trade aspect of things to begin with so that’s the conversation your comment was part of.
http://emedicine.medscape.com/.....4-overview
The sound you hear is Joba pumping a fist, knowing he has the the # 5 SP spot in his line of sight.
Let us hope Westmoreland recoivers fully and returns to full baseball life.
It there a risk? Absolutely yes as with any surgery to a critical organ.
Do I trust the experts in the medical field more than some arm-chair pundits here on the prognosis? Yes.
You make it sound like he had a knee scope. It’s a lot more serious than that.
The doctors quotes are filled with qualifications.
Everybody would like to see him be able to resume his career.
Barring complications, that may happen.
However, nobody, not even his doctor, is saying that’s a FACT yet.
Until it is, you hope for the best.
Johnny Cash
March 20th, 2010 at 2:02 pm
just for comparisons sake, i know ST stats don’t matter but
Melky Cabrera: .324/.405
Brett Gardner: .241/.333
Don’t forget to factor in Gardner’s 2 hits today and also Melky went 0-3 today. Gardner now has a higher OPS than Melky. That’s why it’s stupid to look at these stats during spring training and early in the season with so few AB’s where one big game or 0-5 your numbers change dramatically.
Now
Brett Gardner: .281/.361/.406
Melky Gardner: .300/.354/.350
Brain surgery is serious, but you guys are acting like he has to relearn how to walk.
Overwhelming odds on full recovery to normal athletic ability.
SJ44 you said:
Westmoreland may never play again.
The hope is, he hasn’t suffered any long term damage.
Playing again isn’t even on the radar right now.
Just a horrible story.
–
That is worthless fear mongering. I’ll trust the Doctors on this.
Bad baserunning by Weber. Would have liked to see Hoffman hit there with men in scoring position.
Hoffman can’t be happy about that.
What’s more boring?
Yesterday’s discussion on CC’s op out or today’s on surgery of someone we never heard of?
Jerkface, It’s time to throw in the towel on this subject
Brandon Awesome (B/c I’m more AWESOME than RAW w/ no Miz)
March 20th, 2010 at 2:49 pm
The sound you hear is Joba pumping a fist, knowing he has the the # 5 SP spot in his line of sight.
———————–
No, that was the bullpen punching the wall.
That’s not fearmongering at all.
Did you bother to read CB’s post on the subject.
You talked out of your butt and got called on it. Grow up and deal with it.
There aren’t “overwhelming odds” he can play again AND playing again ISNT on his radar according to his family.
They are hoping for a full recovery BEFORE worrying about whether or not he plays again.
gotta love the bank 3pter
Where are all the “brain surgeons” that are usually in here?
villanova could be headed down!
I don’t think anyone is blowing westmoreland’s condition out of proportion. Yes this particlar surgery has a good success and recovery rate but I highly doubt there is much data on how it affects the vision and hand eye coordination needed to be a professional baseball player.
Success is a relative term in these matters. Let’s hope everything went well and he can resume his career with no complications.
“Jerkface, It’s time to throw in the towel on this subject”
Why should he throw in the towel? He is the one making sense.
I’m giving Westmoreland a better chance than Villanova.
Of course I read it, the 44 person sample in which surgery successfully prevented further occurences in 95% of cases. And after 2 years 100%. And how cranial bleeding occurs only in .2-2% of cases.
And yet the Doctor said there were overwhelming odds in his favor. Wow!
I think more of you are talking out of your behinds than what you think I am doing.
Nick,
good call!! LOL
SJ44 your arguing leaves much to be desired. Suddenly I have to argue against what his family thinks? I don’t think so!
My argument is purely that the surgery has a good recovery rate, the defect itself usually features no symptoms or generally just headaches, and that the doctor says there are overwhelming odds on his recovery.
Anyone who is crying that he may never live a normal life or play baseball again should weigh these while you are scheduling your prayer circles.
“You talked out of your butt and got called on it. Grow up and deal with it. ”
SJ,
Why do you use such language?
You can still make your arguments without resorting to it.
Jerkface did not use such language in this whole discussion.
And in fact, Jerkface was refering to things in the press and did not makeup anything.
Westmoreland wasn’t even symptomatic. Which gives him a much better chance of being in the 95% than were he symptomatic.
A chat with Chien..
http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/.....ytimesbats
RE: Westmoreland
Can’t you all be right?
a) there are good odds that Ryan makes it through this ok
b) it’s a very serious condition and there’s always a chance that there could be complications and playing baseball at the same high level, or ever, is no guarantee
c) everyone is wishing him well and agrees that the most important thing right now is his general health
How many of those patients are professional athletes?
Survival rate? Very high odds.
Being able to resume his career? Need more than “should” by any doctor to know for sure since nobody can predict a complication free recovery.
Why is that so difficult to comprehend?
Nova is out!!!!!!!!!!
Lohud Neurosurgery Blog?
Saw that Aceves gave up 5 runs today
That should all but take him out of the running for the fifth spot.
He was symtomatic. He was complaining of dizziness and headaches and that’s when the Red Sox pulled him from camp to see the specialists.
I have anecdotal evidence if you want as well, as I know 2 people who had this surgery and successfully recovered, and could even play volleyball and softball !
I’d probably drop money on Ryan playing baseball again right now.
I wish Westmoreland well, but I hope he never plays baseball again!!!!!!!
BBfan….Just trying to move on baseball fan dude !!!!! St. Mary’s, loving it….Next up , Butler laying 4 1/2 points…..On a roll
After starting out pretty well (24-8), my brackets start to fall apart with this Villanova loss.
I did just read that article, but luckily headaches and dizziness are normal symptoms associated with the disorder, but are not the serious symptoms which can include seizure.
E-gawa
No, that was the bullpen punching the wall
********************
Kei is that you?
Pena is hitting .214
Russo is hitting .389
No reason at all for Pena to make the team over Russo. I don’t care about defense.
what a questionable signing…. bad job Shapiro! bad job!
“Kerry Wood will be sidelined for the next six-to-eight weeks with a strained right latissimus dorsi muscle.”
Jim Desheis….Good pitcher who the Yanks gave away to Houston for who ???? Joe Niekro maybe ???
Nice solid shot into the gap by Gorecki for a triple
does weber have a chance to be with the team instead of hoffman/thames?
Given Aceves’ performance today, is he still in the mix for the 5th starter. It is just unfortunate one game can make suh a difference.
I guess Highes, Job and Mitre are left in the competition in that order.
If Weber can be stashed in AAA, he has no chance. Hoffman’s a rule-5, Thames can become a free agent if he doesn’t make the team.
Nova lost?
What a delightful start to my morning.
Weber is almost like a poor man’s Matt Stairs. Again I still can’t believe Colin Curtis’ spring is being overlooked.
Aceves wasn’t going to be the 5th starter. Not over Joba, and definitely not over Hughes.
But, were it a true competition, today’s game wouldn’t have made much of a difference. One game and with shoddy defense. And I’m thinking inherited runners were allowed to score?
Why would a team like the Indians give big money to a closer?
Right on target, Pat Joe Neikro in 1985, for Desaise and a couple of others.
Reegie was robbed.
Forget Thames. Go with the youth and speed/defense of Hoffmann.
We’re going to need a pinch runner/defender more often than we are going to need a bat off the bench. Besides, with the way Thames looks, I’d rather take the chance Gardner can use his speed to force the defense to make a mistake rather than see Thames flail away at balls out of the zone and strikeout.
Who do you want up there against Okijima, 1 on, 2 outs down by 2 runs?
Gardner or Thames?
THAT’S why Thames is making the team.
I don t like to play a guess game whether or not Westmoreland can resume baseball activity. However, he is only a teenager so he has plenty of time to finish a long recovery process.
Back to Yank’s world, who do you think will replace Jeter at SS? Manny Machado if he falls into the dead last pick of this June’s first round draft?
For the long run, it is better for Russo to go to AAA and learn fielding SS and then get promoted to ML in the middle of the season. Overall, he will be a better contributor than Pena.
i agree about colin curtis but he is a lefty and they want a righty on the bench.
Who do you want up there against Okijima, 1 on, 2 outs down by 2 runs?
Gardner or Thames?
THAT’S why Thames is making the team.
===
Hoffmann or Thames is more correctly logical.
Thames wont make the team.
Man, Prior & Woods were to be the next Dynamic Duo….Ah Dusty Baker, how do you sleep at night ????
Mosley’s not doing much to stay in the Yankee system unless he wants to hang around Scranton to help the umpires rub Delaware River mud on the baseballs.
For the long run, it is better for Russo to go to AAA and learn fielding SS and then get promoted to ML in the middle of the season. Overall, he will be a better contributor than Pena.
===
Russo should replace Pena on opener’s day roster. Once Jeter is down, Pena will be recalled up. Jeter is not going to take rest so it does not make any sense to have Jeter.
I think D has gone from underrated to overrated, but Thames D is just unacceptable.
Unless Hoffman lights up in the next 10 days it will be
Thames who makes to the ML club based on his past success in ML.
i agree about colin curtis but he is a lefty and they want a righty on the bench.
===
If Gardner could not do any jack then Curtis should take over at LF. Problem is he is not on 40 man roster, hence roster move.
“I think D has gone from underrated to overrated, but Thames D is just unacceptable.”
Agree. Which is probably why Hoffman makes the team.
“Russo should replace Pena on opener’s day roster. Once Jeter is down, Pena will be recalled up. Jeter is not going to take rest so it does not make any sense to have Jeter.”
Good point.
Still, it does not give him the opportunity to develop his defensive skills at SS. A couple of months in AAA will help.
If I were Girardi, I would immediately send Russo to outfield now because he is on 40 man roster and Thames is not. If Russo playing OF is satisfied to eyes then Yankees wont have to release any one on 40 man roster to start off the season.
Defense is really not important for Thames to make the club. He would be mostly used as a PH and they still have one of the other good defensive OFs on the bench.
Cashman said it was Hoffman’s job to lose, FYI.
Russo should definitely be getting work in the OF. He gives you a quality AB every time.
I don’t think defense is ever underrated.
That’s why you’re seeing a seismic shift in philosophy with teams like the Yanks, Red Sox, Rays, etc. etc. focus so much on pitching and defense and acquiring fewer big sluggers lumbering out in the field.
If Thames is in then Hoffmann loses the job. Like someone mentioned Yanks could trade someone to Dodgers to keep Hoffmann in the minor. Mitre could be the best bet because he is a sinker and Hughes is secretly penciled for 5th starter.
“Cheng said Yankees fans have become Nationals fans.”
“Cashman said it was Hoffman’s job to lose, FYI.”
He is losing it, unless he turns it around fast….
Russo is too much like Randy Winn. Same with Hoffmann.
You need a guy with some punch on the bench. We had Hinske last year. A guy you can pinch hit and can take the guy out of the ballpark.
If we want a single, why would we even pinch hit for Gardner? Chances are, he can slap the ball somewhere or beat out a groundball.
Giuseppe Franco March 20th, 2010 at 3:55 pm
I don’t think defense is ever underrated.
—————
Oops, that’s supposed to be OVERRATED.
Even if Westmoreland makes a full recovery and is able to return to baseball activities, what would be a reasonable timeframe?
Could he, for example, be included as the #1 or #2 prospect in a package for Adrian Gonzalez this July? Probably doubtful.
In a sense, even in the best case scenario, the Red Sox are going to have to reevaluate their team strategy as far as trades are concerned.
Do Dodgers need a lefty specialist? What would happen to Ring if he did not make the team?
I can see a scenario that Yanks would send Loogan to Dodgers and Ring to Scranton.
Logan is the younger and better upside arm, why would we do that?
How often is Gardner going to be pinch hit for?
He hit ,270 last year. He has a good eye, he can slap the ball around, he can beat out infield hits, etc. He is a rally starter.
Why not give Gardner a chance to extend the rally and bring up Jeter-NJ rather than bring in Thames for a small chance at a HR? Because if he doesn’t hit a rare HR, he’s probably going to K.
Even if Westmoreland makes a full recovery and is able to return to baseball activities, what would be a reasonable timeframe?
Could he, for example, be included as the #1 or #2 prospect in a package for Adrian Gonzalez this July? Probably doubtful.
In a sense, even in the best case scenario, the Red Sox are going to have to reevaluate their team strategy as far as trades are concerned.
He is out of baseball for at least a year for sure. Red Sox have to send a package of at least Youkilis and Kelly.
“than bring in Thames for a small chance at a HR? Because if he doesn’t hit a rare HR, he’s probably going to K.”
———–
I’m indifferent on Thames, but his HR rates against lefties have been very good.
If a potential winning score from 2B with at least 1 out then you have to ph Gardner. single wont get it done right. History proves it.
Loogan is not exactly a part of long term for Yankees as they had nerves to dump Coke and Dunn, both southpaw throws harder than Loogan. Thornton of White Sox will become a FA after this season. Also, Of The Rose or Brooks could be in bullpen next year.
This is just my opinion, but I do believe that the LoHud dipped to some degree in style points…..Sad and pitiful
Anyone likes Manny Machado, a potential first round pick out of HS?
If worrying about the 5th outfielder is NYYs biggest issue, it’ll be a good season.
To eliminate the outfield concerns, all NYY has to do in each game is score 10 runs in the first inning, and then, slowly pull away.
Pat M,
The Heels are on the the final 8, I guess you’d call it the mediocre 8 instead of the elite 8….
But Thames looks awful in the OF.
Don’t undervalue defense. Today’s game was a good example of that.
Just catching up, after an afternoon of chores and such.
Re: Ryan Westmoreland and his prognosis –
Guys, I’m not saying this to puff out my chest or anything, but I happen to be a doctor, and a critical care specialist to boot. I’ve been running ICUs since 1990. A significant part of what I do is post-op management for the most critical cases, including neuro ones like the sort Westmoreland reportedly had.
You know what the definition of a good outcome is to a surgeon? That’s when the patient leaves the hospital alive. That’s it.
As long as they leave alive, that qualifies. The tougher the case, the more that qualifies. No black mark against the surgeon, insurance premiums stay down. Doesn’t matter if the poor guy goes to rehab and needs a nurse to feed them by spoon – if they’re alive, it’s a “good outcome”.
I know, because I’ve stood there while neurosurgeons, cardiac surgeons, liver surgeons, you name it, tell families just that. “Your loved one did beautifully.” A year later they may be dead, but they got out of the hospital, and off the surgeon’s ledger.
The only I know about this poor kid is that he had a a lesion that could have killed him. He had very dangerous surgery, and, so far, has survived (from what I understand).
At this point, you take it day by day.
He is far from out of the woods.
Statistics are great, as long as you’re not in the 2% “bad outcome” – if you are, then your chance of a bad outcome is 100%.
Nobody here has any idea what is going to happen to this kid. But if he did do well, then his chances of living are a lot better than yesterday.
Forget baseball. That’s the least of his problems right now. And we should not be so crass and cynical to consider this poor kid only in the context of our own leisure time entertainment.
Anybody with a soul should hope for the best for him and his family.
m
March 20th, 2010 at 4:14 pm
But Thames looks awful in the OF.
Don’t undervalue defense. Today’s game was a good example of that.
————————————————————
That’s from having two AA infielders playing out of position. It had nothing to do with outfield play.
My error. Russo was at AAA last year.
I didn’t see the whole game, but I did see Thames OF play 2x. You can guess which two plays I’m talking about.
But to be fair, Aceves gave up two very hard-hit bombs, so that’s on him.
But, in general, I would prefer Hoffman and his age/versatility than Thames on the last thread of his career.
I would, though upgrade the bench at some point, maybe picking up a better RH bat. hehe, manny?
Thanks Joe.
That needed to be said.
Pat M.
It’s still spring Training for Lohud as well. It will get better. Except for Game threads, avoid those like the plague.
On a related note: I just checked fangraphs for stats on a player I was curious about. I feel like such a traitor to my old school Brethren. Just shoot me now!
Actually, it was quite helpful and confirmed what I thought.
Joe from LI
thats pretty scary to think about it like that. Thanks for the insight
Joe,
Great post and obviously you are qualified to speak on this. As I said earlier, success with these matters is relative. To the surgeon if the surgery went as planned with no known complications then its a success. There are a whole host of things that are yet to be accounted for and playing baseball again is an afterthought right now.
Chances are he will be fine and hopefully play again but there is no guarantee of that. Hope he makes a full recovery.
Tarheel,
Its a hollow victory but a victory nonetheless. At least they are guaranteed to finish above .500 now.
I would, though upgrade the bench at some point, maybe picking up a better RH bat. hehe, manny?
====
LOL. Mitre for Manny.
Joe from Long Island…..I know you speak more many here, and certainly you expressed my feelings to the letter…..Classy Post
Speak more Manny here?
Please, no!
blake
Yeah. I am starting to see that fire they had early in the year. I found myself getting excited during the game, and then I remembered it’s the NIT.
I guess we are really spoiled with the Yanks and Heels.
Nick,
I am decidedly agnostic.
Manny and his bat are welcome.
“Yeah. I am starting to see that fire they had early in the year. I found myself getting excited during the game, and then I remembered it’s the NIT.”
Yea I did too, one big positive is that Henson is finally starting to show progress. He just needs to gain about 30 lbs between now and next year.
I don’t care, but I think manny would be the lesser of two evils compared to Dukes.
But if Manny came here he would be adopted by a PBM and then only the losers would rag on him. And where’s the fun in that?
New post.
“I think manny would be the lesser of two evils compared to Duke.”
Fixed?
blake
Definately agree about Henson. He took it the rim strong a couple of times today. A glimpse of the future, I hope.
Tarheel,
Hes super talented, he just needs some meat on his bones.
Nick,
The fun is watching him jack the ball out of the stadium.
Or at least jack the ball out of the maternity ward.
No, Nick.
And stop that annoying habit that Brandon used to have.
Brandon didn’t employ the ironic question mark.
blake
Any chance Davis comes back next year? I say no, but really think he should. He’s not ready for the NBA yet.
lol, well at least your arrogance knows some bounds.
Brandon didn’t employ the stupid question mark.
fixed.
Nick in SF in Larkspur
March 20th, 2010 at 4:54 pm
Or at least jack the ball out of the maternity ward.
====
Yeah, well, I guess I’m just not one for the sport of moralizing Manny.
What he can do with a bat doesn’t come out of a bottle or a syringe.
Attacked from all sides, retreat, retreat
Tarheel,
If he’s smart he will, he’s nowhere close to ready.
blake
The problem is I think he’s still projected as a first round pick. With his family background, and not needing the money, you would hope he will be smart about it. Just like Psycho T was.